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Vitamin B6 may reduce the cytokine storms of Covid

Maybe getting enough Vitamin B6 will reduce deaths

The main two things that kill people with Covid are blood clotting and an out-of-control inflammation known as a cytokine storm. A group of researchers noticed that both of these were things Vitamin B6 was known to reduce — blood clotting, and inflammation. In particular, there’s a molecule called Interleukin 6 which is a “masterplayer” signal in our immune system and — what do you know —  B6 reduces it. Mice that weren’t fed enough B6 got mouse pneumonia more than mice who were fed enough. B6 is anti-inflammatory, anti- and reduces reactive oxygen species (ROS).

The Big Black hole in medical research?

I hoped this paper was report on experiments with Covid patients, but the paper and press release is essentially a literature review of many pre-covid studies and a plea for research into whether vitamin B6 might help stop the deadly cytokine storm.

The bigger, global question they don’t ask, is why despite the millions (billions) going into vaccine design and drug research, hardly anyone is studying the cheap unprofitable and obvious questions? Perhaps we need some government funded research that’s not driven by profits… oh. wait.?  What happened to the idea that public funded University science could be a foil against profit hungry large corporations? Instead, it’s almost like they’ve jumped into bed with them.  It’s not a radical new idea that B6 could reduce lung infections. The mouse study, forgoodnesssake, was done in 1949. Potentially people may have been getting sicker than they needed to be for 70 years. That’s a crime.

A B6 tablet costs about 7 cents or practically nothing compared to $3000 a dose Remdesivir. 

Great comment, Mike Jonas:

The western world is being destroyed by a sickness – corruption. The coronavirus is bad, but it pales into insignificance beside corruption. The coronavirus can be combatted with a vaccine or with vitamins or with various cheap drugs (get a Budesonide inhaler prescription now, take as instructed as soon as you get a coronavirus symptom).

Corruption can be combatted with a free press or with genuine universities or with integrity in government, or even with open social media. We now have none of those defences.

The researchers make the case that a B6 deficiency is also associated with lots of the conditions which predispose people to severe covid-19

Vitamin B6 may help keep COVID-19’s cytokine storms at bay

by Chris Melore

Along with promoting healthy blood cell creation, study authors say there’s evidence vitamin B6 can also protect the body from chronic conditions like heart disease and diabetes. Their report finds B6 can suppress inflammation, inflammatory proteins from the immune system, oxidative stress, and carbonyl stress.

“Coronaviruses and influenza are among the viruses that can cause lethal lung injuries and death from acute respiratory distress syndrome worldwide. Viral infections evoke a ‘cytokine storm,’ leading to lung capillary endothelial cell inflammation, neutrophil infiltration, and increased oxidative stress,” researchers explain.

Kumrungsee adds there are two serious symptoms which can lead to death in COVID-19 patients, thrombosis and the cytokine storm. This storm, or hyper inflammation, takes place when the patient’s own immune system goes into overdrive and attacks healthy cells. Thrombosis, or blood clotting, can block off capillaries and damages organs like the heart, lungs, liver, and kidneys.

Scientists say vitamin B6 is a natural anti-inflammatory and anti-clotting nutrient.

Vitamin B6 is involved in around 150 reactions in your body involving energy, fat, sugar, DNA, neurotransmitters — you get the idea. There are six different forms of B6 (things are never that simple in biochemistry). Best to look for the PLP form of B6, not the cheap multivitamin form “Pyridoxine”.

B6 may or may not help with Covid, but it’s an experiment worth doing. B6 seems to play a role in protection against diabetes and cancer and heart disease. It helps to regulate homocysteine levels. Even if it doesn’t help against Covid, it seems pretty handy.

Don’t remember your dreams? — if you don’t, try B6.

Best is to eat more, rather than just pop a pill, but people with gut inflammation, IBS, women on the pill, or long term cortiocosteriods, and alcoholics need more B6 than the other people. The richest foods in Vitamin B6 are Salmon and Tuna, meat, potatoes, spinach and bananas.

The RDA is about 2mg a day. The upper tolerable intake limit is set at 100 milligrams a day. Long term use of 500mg a day generates toxicity. It’s rare to see people with a severe deficiency — where the afflicted get convulsive seizures, but moderate or mild deficiencies seem to matter too.  Chris Masterjohn recommends a catch up dose if you think you might be deficient, but for the long term to reduce the dose to 10mg/day.

For symptoms of a mild deficiency — see here. The test, apparently, is to just take the vitamin and see if it helps.

 

REFERENCE

Kumrungsee T, Zhang P, Chartkul M, Yanaka N and Kato N (2020) Potential Role of Vitamin B6 in Ameliorating the Severity of COVID-19 and Its Complications. Front. Nutr. 7:562051. doi: 10.3389/fnut.2020.562051

https://www.frontiersin.org/articles/10.3389/fnut.2020.562051/full#B21

9.1 out of 10 based on 52 ratings

101 comments to Vitamin B6 may reduce the cytokine storms of Covid

  • #
    Peter Fitzroy

    A healthy diet, rich in the chemical compounds you can not synthesise by yourself (that is the definition of a vitamin) is good for you. Certainly it is better than paying money for supplements like vitamins B, C, and D etc. As to the alleged side effects of a healthy diet, I could not find any literature which supports that, is there a source?

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    • #
      Frost Giant Rebellion

      Even when you are struggling to breath Peter?

      “I could not find any literature which supports that, is there a source?”

      Everyone who hates evidence shows up wanting someone else to be their google mommy. You didn’t find anything because you didn’t look. I don’t like putting in links. They get stuck in moderation, people don’t use them. They are usually premature, in that people need context, or no amount of evidence will sway them. But it took me literally five seconds to find this link for Peter.

      https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7658555/

      Which means Peter didn’t look.

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      • #
        Peter Fitzroy

        you assert that I did not look, but you have answered the wrong question.

        So again with bold to help you
        As to the alleged side effects of a healthy diet, I could not find any literature which supports that, is there a source?

        25

        • #
          Hanrahan

          “alleged side effects of a healthy diet,…..”
          That doesn’t make sense. My answer would be that the alleged side effects of a healthy diet would be health.

          But if you are saying that people with a decent diet shouldn’t be be B6 deficient I would concur. It looks to be present in many foods eg red peppers – We eat a little every day but if I were to do a thorough search on the topic I would expect to find I would need to eat X10 what we do. But at my age I don’t eat much, it’s a catch 22.

          But all that would change in my mind if diagnosed with WuFlu, I would go to the safe upper limit hoping to prevent the dreaded cytokine storm.

          The cheap B complex tab I take has 10mg of pyridoxine. Reading this article changes nothing in my daily routine.

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          • #
            Chris

            Whilst we all try to eat a healthy diet. Research has shown that many of our vegetables contain less nutrients than they did 50 years ago. Apart from from having compromised soils, new hybrid varieties are designed to be quick growing, easily transported and have a longer shelf life . The only vegetables that have increased nutrition are carrots.
            So it is very easy to become nutritional deficient.

            As to B6 if you have gut problems your ability to absorb B6 is compromised

            100

            • #
              greggg

              It’s not just the ability to absorb nutrients. We rely on a diverse microbiome to synthesise much of the nutrients we need.

              ‘The capacity of the gut bacteria to synthesize vitamin B6 has been estimated to meet 86% of the daily recommended intake, suggesting that alterations in the gut microbiome may dramatically influence dietary requirements.’

              https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0016508520356225

              I’ve been taking P5P for many years because I was deficient. Not because of a deficient diet, but because of not having the P5P producing bacteria in my gut that I needed. I’m now making much more B6 in my gut because of a B6 producing probiotic I’ve taken and though I don’t need it as much, I still benefit from supplemental P5P.

              When someone claims vitamins are a waste of money you know they don’t know sh*t about nutrition.

              30

          • #
            Hasbeen

            Sorry Hanrahan you are missing one thing. That is how much you need to eat to get that nutrition. As a boy, [50s], I used to stay on a large property near Bathurst. They had a number of live in farm hands in those days when much work was done by hand.

            These blokes for breakfast would eat, a large bowl of porridge with lashings of milk, cream & sugar. This would be followed with a couple of sausages, a couple of chops fried tomato & a couple of eggs. Some would finish off with stewed fruit.

            None of these blokes were fat. They needed that much food to fuel the hard work they did. The nutrients supplied by this amount would be hard to get from food today, when a quarter of that volume would see your weight explode.

            90

            • #
              Hanrahan

              Ummm. I thought that was the point I was making. Three or four eggs a day would give me a lot of valuable nutrients but I don’t eat that much.

              This is off topic a little but look out for any of your oldies on a “cup of tea and toast” diet. They don’t need a lot, but they need to do better’n that.

              20

    • #
      Curious George

      Following the examples of the hydroxychloroquine and ivermectin, the government will now ban a healthy diet.

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      • #
        Lawrie

        I note that Katrina Grace Kelly in the Weekend Australian is taking Craig Kelly to task over his promotion of Ivermectin and HCQ for the treatment of COVID 19. She quotes “Our National COVID-19 Clinical Evidence Taskforce formulates unified clinical guidelines for COVID-19. It’s made up of 32 peak clinical bodies and more than 200 leading medical experts from across primary, acute and critical care settings. The taskforce meets and updates frequently as new and reliable evidence emerges, and issues “living guidelines” using an evidence-based approach.”

        It is strange that even with this multitude of medical experts there are still many other, very well credentialed, medical experts that have completely different approaches to the treatment. Obviously our 200 did not read the reports that Jo published recently about the efficacy of both chemicals in India and Mexico. Why are these drugs effective in one country but not in another? They work in poor countries but not in rich- obviously I’m missing something.

        I feel the only way to answer some or all these questions is, not a Royal Commission where the findings are usually written before it begins, but a good old fashioned mass tort run for the relatives of the dead who may have lived. I note here that the mass tort run by the victims of the Brisbane floods won $400 million plus in damages whereas the inquiry into the operation of the dam saw no one sacked or held responsible. Lawyers do good sometimes.

        20

        • #
          Hanrahan

          One of the Balkan countries has just approved ivermectin over the counter. More good than harm will come of that but there are idiots such as the lady who drank aquarium cleaner and the other who used Gorilla Glue in her hair.

          Let Darwin take care of them.

          30

    • #
      Frost Giant Rebellion

      Vitamins are out for Peter, but all the poisons in vaccines … it’ll be fine. That’ll work great. Safe and effective. No worries there. The study is one of these meta-affairs. So they have 48 references. Enough to keep you reading for a very long time Peter, supposing you didn’t understand what was summarised above. I suspect you are reading right now aren’t you? So much easier just to make a mental note that you’ll pick up some B6 next time you see them at half price, and store them away somewhere, as part of a stash of things that actually work.

      111

      • #
        Peter Fitzroy

        did you read the request by Jo to post references?

        And although my diet is not optimal, it does follow the one third should be vegetables/fruit/nuts (you know unprocessed stuff) on third carbs, and one third protein. I prefer to get my vitamins that way.

        111

        • #
          David Maddison

          Peter, it looks like you follow a diet whose origin has no scientific basis. Way too many carbs and sugars for a start.

          https://www.ditchthecarbs.com/why/food-pyramids/

          90

        • #
          Hanrahan

          Fitz, none of these foods contain worthwhile quantities of V D3 so if you aren’t tanned you are prolly dangerously deficient of that vit. Quality fish is hard to find, expensive. Farmed salmon is unhealthy and wild caught are a vanishing commodity. The only other dietary source is offal meats. I believe a lion goes straight to the liver/kidneys of its kill for this reason.

          I never see offal meats on the shelves.

          91

          • #
            Peter Fitzroy

            “The only other dietary source is offal meats” – rubbish

            eggs and butter, or the sun will do the trick

            13

            • #
              David Maddison

              Peter, have you had your Vit D levels checked? Most people are deficient without supplementation.

              70

              • #
                Hanrahan

                I tested 150 nmol/l without supplementation but I live in the tropics and often spend an hour in the sun with no shirt while in the yard. My lady gets no sun so I give her 5,000 iu/d and last time she checked she was a little over 100 nmol/l, and she is slim. Her level WITH supplementation is lower than my natural level so I think it is fair to say that 5,000 iu/day is a minimum requirement.

                I have posted the link before but 360 tabs is available for $20. That is enough for a year. Cheap as chips.

                50

              • #
                Peter Fitzroy

                Well David, last time I was tested, I was fine, and I take my coffee like my exercise, outdoors and often

                00

              • #
                Frost Giant Rebellion

                Fine like 40 nano-moles per litre or fine like 140 nano-moles per litre? For a viral pandemic you want higher than ancestral levels.

                00

            • #
              Hanrahan

              I did say “if you don’t have a tan” so I know about the sun but fewer men are playing cricket, golf or bowls than ever.

              Welcome to the nutritional vitamin d content in 5 different types of butter, ranging from 60 IU to 40 IU per 100g.

              A 500g butter lasts our household of 4 well over a week, and that includes 2 bulletproof coffees a day. So one would be getting their D3 exclusively from butter.

              Mansberg is backing recent research from Australian Eggs that confirmed an average serve of eggs (that is, two medium-sized ones) provides more than 80 percent of the daily recommended dietary vitamin D intake.

              The RDD of D3 is 600 iu/d but the real need is 10 times that so two eggs gives you 8% of daily need.

              I’ll stick with my original assertion.

              60

        • #
          Frost Giant Rebellion

          I just posted 48 references bro. And as predicted you weren’t even interested in one of them.

          10

    • #
      Klem

      What defines a healthy diet exactly?

      20

      • #

        Klem, if only we knew, and it depends on your genes, your current health, and possibly past diseases.

        There are online nutrient trackers out there for those who can summon the effort to enter their food intake and find out what they are missing. With the caveat that the RDI’s for many vitamins are set too low — they will prevent you getting rickets or scurvy but not necessarily provide optimal amounts. But they will give you an estimate of which vitamins you might be short of.

        Alternately, a good guess is that for most of the last million years humans ate meat and lots of salad, with some nuts, and a bit of fruit every now and then. It’s just a point to start from.

        161

        • #
          Hanrahan

          Just applying a little logic to what a paleo diet may be, I would say eggs would be high on the list, they don’t run and they don’t fight back. Seasonal of course but I can imagine our natives living near swamps gorging themselves on magpie geese eggs.

          71

          • #
            Frost Giant Rebellion

            Egg yolks are low in deuterium (only 120 parts per million even for the commercial product) contain all the best fats. Contain fat soluble vitamins and if they are pastured chickens, looked after by a Maremma sheep dog, they contain heaps of these fat soluble vitamins. People in poor countries may need the egg whites for protein. But for most of us in Australia the egg white is probably superfluous to requirements. If you could afford to buy pastured egg yolks and throw the whites away the idea would be to smuggle egg yolks into all your food. They are so awesome. The theorists say that the mammals evolved scurrying about and eating dinosaur eggs. The argument could be made that the egg is our key dietary product. The whole egg for poor countries, the egg yolk for the rest of us. Other nutrient dense products are organ meats, the liver being the most fantastic. Shell fish. The Oyster generally thought of as the most amazing. Bone marrow is in this hallowed category and theorists talk about our ancestors following after the hyenas and accidentally getting the best food products, that were capable of allowing for an expanded brain … because we followed afterward to smash the bones and get the best food that the apex predator left behind. And then there is the bone broth.

            I don’t think that we need necessarily aspire to live on these top-ranked nutrient dense foods alone. But those egg yolks. They are the real deal.

            10

            • #
              Kalm Keith

              At last.
              Why has it taken you so long to say something clear and interesting that’s not smothered with double talk and waffle
              Well done.

              10

    • #

      Maybe you are not yet old enough to notice Peter, but after a while, a “healthy diet” may not be enough. Things get out of balance, eg I am now being treated for osteoporosis, but that was not caused by any dietary deficiency. Following the demonisation of hydroxychloroquine and ivermectin, this is not the time to rely on “advice”. I prefer the “risk” of expensive urine.

      141

      • #
        Peter Fitzroy

        how does that anecdote relate to the idea of getting your vitamins via fresh produce?

        17

        • #
          Frost Giant Rebellion

          Anecdote is a cuss word in your world isn’t it Peter. But the reality is that industrial food production has led us to a place where vitamin K2 has been almost eliminated from the diet. So kids are born with narrow faces, men get osteoporosis, Grandma falls, breaks her hip-bone and dies three years later and so forth.

          “how does that anecdote relate to the idea of getting your vitamins via fresh produce?”

          Vitamins D3, K2 and A are FAT SOLUBLE VITAMINS. They cannot be obtained by fresh produce. If you are a vegan and you want vitamin K2 you need to go with fermented produce. Not fresh produce. Even then thats a hard ask. That Japanese have a fermented soy product called NATTO. But thats about the best you can hope for. Vitamin K2 is converted from vitamin K1 in the gut of an animal that eats green stuff and then it gets stored in their fat. Which means the fat on their body or the fat in their egg yolk. The ultimate world champion of this process is the Australian Emu. But pastured egg yolks are great. Lard from grass-fed beef is good enough one supposes. But not if you are gearing up for a pandemic.

          If you are gearing up for a viral pandemic you need through-the-roof vitamin D. But if you have through-the-roof vitamin D that means you are going to pollute your body with calcium in the long run. So you therefore need very high K2 consumption.

          00

      • #
        Hanrahan

        We are not genetically engineered for long life. In our millions of years as hunter/gatherers few would live far past 40 so the fact that as we age our ability to synthesise certain hormones decays as we age was not important. CoQ10 springs to mind, our ability to synthesise that peaks at 25, or so we are told.

        Nature needs a little extra help at my age. What is hard is sorting the wheat from the chaff on what we need and what just makes expensive urine.

        60

    • #
      PeterW

      Good luck actually defining “a healthy diet”, given the degree to which nutritional dogma has demonised things now know to be harmless, or even beneficial – like animal fats – while lauding things now known to be harmful – like hydrogenated vegetable oils.

      90

    • #
      David Maddison

      Lots of people are deficient in Vitamin D for a start Peter. African origin people living in more sun-deficient regions are. As are all people who cover their skin significantly or use sunscreen. Have you also not read articles, including many from Jo on this site, showing that appropriate Vit D levels confer some resistance to C-19?

      90

      • #
        Hanrahan

        Australian dermatologists were tested for serum D3 and they were well below average. Being intelligent and trained you would think they would know that low D3 levels make one more susceptible to all cancer, including skin cancer.

        OK as we are now sticklers for links I did the search for you:

        https://www.researchgate.net/publication/24034150_The_vitamin_D_status_of_Australian_dermatologists

        For the study group, the average serum 25(OH)D was34.4 nmol ⁄L (range 5–84). Only six (13%) of the dermatologists had serum 25(OH)D levels > 50 nmol ⁄L but seven (15%) had serum 25(OH)D levels £20 nmol ⁄L. There was no significant difference in the average serum 25(OH)D level between men (35 mol ⁄L) and women(34 nmol ⁄L) or between white Australians (35 nmol ⁄L)and Asian Australians (35 nmol ⁄L). The average serum 25(OH)D level of the controls was 44.7 nmol ⁄L (range 19–170), which was significantly higher than that of the dermatologists (P< 0.05). In total,13 controls (21%) had serum 25(OH)D levels ‡50 nmol ⁄L, and 3 (4.7%) had serum 25(OH)D levels < 20 nmol ⁄L.There was no significant difference in the average serum25(OH)D between men and women

        60

        • #
          Chrism

          there is an ‘apocryphal’ story of the Melbourne dermatologist with 100% sun cover and sun block whenever outdoors to avoid melanoma who, bending to take golf ball out of pin hole suffered a leg fracture from chronic vitD lack – not sure how true

          20

      • #
        Peter Fitzroy

        David and Hanrahan.
        There are a literal ton of articles showing the benefits of a healthy diet, and in particular on vitamin intake. I can not find one article which warns that IBS (as the quoted example) is made worse by such a diet. I can find articles which say, “if you have IBS – avoid these foods (FODMAPS seem a favourite)”, and I can find articles which say a healthy diet will reduce IBS symptoms. That is the basis for my question.

        03

        • #
          Hanrahan

          Fitz, please point any post where David or I dismissed the value of a good diet. The concept of eating junk and correcting with supplements is absurd.

          Not speaking for David but I believe the university food pyramid is bad so I say “good” to differentiate from the published “healthy”.

          How many people today avoid salt and fats but use grain oils? They think they are eating healthy but the high death toll from WuFlu in the US tells me they are eating UNhealthy.

          BTW There isn’t a sugar bowl or soft drink [soda for David] in my house.

          100

        • #
          Hasbeen

          Peter we don’t work hard enough today to eat enough to get an adequate supply on nutrients from aur food.

          40

    • #
      Frost Giant Rebellion

      A healthy diet is great when you are healthy. But if you get sick its proof that the healthy diet didn’t work and something extra is needed. But the context of what we are talking about is a viral pandemic. In a viral pandemic sub-ancestral levels of vitamin D are not good enough. And levels of vitamin D extra to ancestral levels may be superior. You don’t GET vitamin D from fresh produce. And my understanding is that Peter Fitzroy isn’t getting about butt-naked.

      Extra to that, evolution, at least as Darwin would have it, cares very little about you after child-bearing age. The biggest organ of our body is said to be our skin. So if we damage our skin by relying excessively on the sun for our vitamin D, that is a matter for us, and not for evolution. So its not really appropriate to be too ideological here. I like the idea of trying to get sun on the body but keeping it off the face. Ideally our girls would get about in bikinis but wearing sombreros.

      00

      • #
        Frost Giant Rebellion

        “Extra to that, evolution, at least as Darwin would have it, cares very little about you after child-bearing age. ”

        I don’t see it that way. Because I think Grandma’s are beyond awesome.

        00

    • #
      mwhite

      Problem with vitamin d in the northern hemisphere (UK) is that UVB is absent October to April. That’s when we have our cold and flu season.

      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fmDng_uMCnY

      You cannot get enough vitamin d from your diet

      20

  • #
    Mike Jonas

    “The bigger, global question they don’t ask, is why despite the millions (billions) going into vaccine design and drug research, hardly anyone is studying the cheap unprofitable and obvious questions?”.

    The western world is being destroyed by a sickness – corruption. The coronavirus is bad, but it pales into insignificance beside corruption. The coronavirus can be combatted with a vaccine or with vitamins or with various cheap drugs (get a Budesonide inhaler prescription now, take as instructed as soon as you get a coronavirus symptom).

    Corruption can be combatted with a free press or with genuine universities or with integrity in government, or even with open social media. We now have none of those defences.

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    • #
      Kalm Keith

      Good summary of where we’re at in 2021.

      100

    • #
      Hanrahan

      “The bigger, global question they don’t ask, is why despite the millions (billions) going into vaccine design and drug research, hardly anyone is studying the cheap unprofitable and obvious questions?”.

      The even bigger question is “Why wasn’t this research done decades ago?”

      Had it been done we would have prevented millions of deaths from seasonal flu, among other things, and we would have been prepared for the WuFlu and saved a million lives. But as Andrew Como said: Who cares?

      81

  • #
    Kalm Keith

    It’s good to look at this type of body need where deficiencies may lead to vulnerability.

    I would much prefer to correct a deficiency of vitamin D and now b6, than have to submit to a less scientifically developed pseudo vaccine created by the likes of William Gates and associates.

    Imbalances in diet have been shown in the past to lead to health issues so research on this topic could be very useful.

    150

    • #
      Greg in NZ

      ‘salmon and tuna, meat, potatoes, spinach [silverbeet?] and bananas’.

      Huzzah! These are a few of my favourite things (apologies for the image of Julie Andrews in her apron twirling in a field of alpine wildflowers).

      So if I carry on eating healthily, I’m cured already? Joy! No need for that 66.6% effective™ vaxxxine? Double happy joy!

      200

    • #
      Klem

      I’ve known people who ate balanced diets, took their vitmins, and took care of themselves all of their lives, and they still died protracted miserable painful deaths. Some of them died younger than my chain smoking, alcoholic dad.

      So take all the vitamins you want folks. In the end it won’t make a bit of difference. Just sayin’

      25

      • #
        Hanrahan

        I’m 78, have buried many of my friends and look better than some of my younger friends. But I gave up smoking 50 yrs ago.

        30

        • #
          Klem

          Not many people smoke anymore. Where i live, the few people I still see smoking are women, I seldom see men smoking. It used to be other way around.

          20

  • #
    graham dunton

    How did those fair taking aspirin at a low daily dose, it can be a problem, when you go for emergency surgery, because of it anti coagulating properties?

    60

    • #
      Hanrahan

      Your surgeon would insist on you ceasing before elective surgery. I don’t take any myself but give my Lady some in the hope that thinner blood would irrigate and cleanse her brain of amyloid plaque.

      20

  • #
    David Maddison

    Simple, cheap, effective treatments and cures will not be accepted by the medical establishment or regulators and politicians.

    Just look at the vast numbers of people they effectively murdered by banning HCQ used as per the Zelenko protocol.

    The virus could be wiped out in next to no time if HCQ, Ivermectin, vitamin D and zinc supplementation and many other cheap, effective antivirals and supplements were universally and inexpensively used.

    The medical establishment is as corrupt and as incompetent as the typical politician or senior public serpent or their useful idiot drones of the Left.

    181

    • #
      Hasbeen

      I took Hydroxychloroquine for over 5 years up in the Pacific islands.

      Thinking about it now the only sickness I had in all those years was bout of tropical ear, & 3 days of dengue fever. I hadn’t thought of it before, but it was the most healthy period of my life.

      I wonder if the Hydroxychloroquine did more than shield me from malaria.

      50

  • #
    David Maddison

    As I have noted before isn’t the reversal we have seen interesting…

    It used to be that the Left were strongly opposed to “evil capitalist Big Pharma” and were more in support of simpler remedies.

    The Right would accept the offerings of Big Pharma as they had no ideological objection to their business model or their science-based products.

    Now the Left love Big Pharma because they are working with Big Government and the Right/conservatives hate or mistrust them for the same reason.

    200

    • #
      Peter Fitzroy

      David, I think you are getting your left and right confused

      122

    • #
      John R Smith

      “As I have noted before isn’t the reversal we have seen interesting …”

      … to those of us alive long enough to see it.
      With the obsolescence of books, AI can make the truth of the past die with us.

      100

    • #
      Harves

      Spot on David. The left used to be the ones peddling ‘natural therapies’ and crystals. Oh, and remember the protests against big pharma’s price gouging. But none of that matters now. Big Pharma will have a seat at the table with Big Tech and the political Elite. By the time the useful leftist idiots realise what’s happened, it’ll be too late. Particularly feel for the minority groups currently being used by the left.
      Communism does not have a good record for its treatment of minorities.

      161

  • #
    another ian

    How do Vegemite fans go on this?

    60

  • #
    Philip

    Meat and potatoes ? I’ll be fine then. Get me another beer.

    40

    • #

      Beer, especially that with a bit of natural yeast in the bottle, is very high in B vitamins, so yes, another beer is the prescription!

      https://www.medicaldaily.com/4-health-benefits-beer-drinking-antioxidants-b-vitamin-and-protein-are-there-dont-overdo-it-258658

      B Vitamins

      Any contemporary reader of Hemingway’s A Farewell To Arms will possibly be surprised to read that Catherine’s doctor recommends she drink beer while pregnant. Believe it or not, doctors did that in 1929, when the novel was published. Beer was known to be a source of B vitamins like niacin, riboflavin, pantothenic acid, vitamins B6 and B12, and folate, which scientists now understand can help guard against birth defects of the brain and spine. In fact, a single bottle of beer (12 oz.) provides up to 12.5 percent of the recommended requirement of vitamin B6, which is known to be generally helpful on a cellular level and also heart-healthy.

      So let’s see… 12.5% x 2 is 25% x 4 is 100% so “8 Bottles / day”… I think I like where this is going 😉

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        robert rosicka

        I’m never getting COVID then I smoke like a chimney and drink like a fish !

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          Greg in NZ

          Amen brother! I take my daily dosage of tobacco (filtered rollies) and nightly whisky (medicinal with ginger ale) which freaks my doctor out: no, not mixing whisky with dry, but having hit 60 this year and passing another 5-year medical (professional driver) all my vital signs were in tip-top shape… except my left eye which is a bit blurry & I now require glasses.

          Which reminds me – it’s 3:30 pm on my day off – time for a wee dram of fine Scotch, or two… 🙂

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            robert rosicka

            No idea if scotch has the same vitamins beer has and my doc would love me to cut back but I’m looking after my own health here .

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              Frost Giant Rebellion

              If you drink alcohol that has been distilled you are missing out on the deuterium depletion effects of the yeast creatures.

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        Frost Giant Rebellion

        I accept the B vitamins in beer argument. But probably the alcohol content requires yet more B vitamins for amelioration purposes. Interestingly, beer is thought by some to be the only alcoholic drink not to lead to mitochondrial damage. Small fast reproducing organisms go after deuterium as a matter of urgency. If the yeast can then be filtered from the bottled beer, it may be that we have a low deuterium product. The same would presumably be the case for the water associated with Yoghurt. Old Tom Parr was thought to have lived off milk products that had gone sour, but that had not yet putrified. Its not cut and dried that he didn’t live as long as the legends made it out to be.

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    kentlfc

    I’ve used Berocca for 40 years now. Always felt “not quiet there” on the rare days I didn’t have one. It’s got all the Bs! Bulk 60 pack you can pick up for about $25…42c/day. Cheap as chips. I rarely ever get flues, just one every 10-15 years.

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    Clyde Spencer

    Don’t remember your dreams? — if you don’t, try B6.

    When I was young, I used to have vivid technicolor dreams that I remembered. Then I read Freud’s Interpretation of Dreams and promptly stopped remembering my dreams. I think that there is more to remembering dreams than a vitamin.

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    PeterW

    Given that obesity and hypertension are amongst the most common comorbidities associated with bad outcomes from COVID, you would expect KNOWN diet and lifestyle changes that reduce both would be high on the priority list.

    More time outside, exercising, will help AND deal with most Vitamin D deficiencies.
    So will a decent low-carbohydrate, wholefood way of eating.

    The “healthy, balanced diet” is a myth. Some things are just plain harmful (hydrogenated vegetable oils are one example) and some combinations, such as eating carbohydrates with fats, promote weight gain far more than each in isolation.

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    Rod

    But the scamdemic is exposed and now legal action pending. Time to stop perpetuating the fear and hype.
    From Principia-Scientific:

    Lawyers Promise ‘Nurember Trials’ Against All Behind COVID Scam
    Right now, a second Nuremberg tribunal that is in preparation, with a class action lawsuit being set up under the aegis of thousands of lawyers worldwide behind the American-German lawyer Reiner Fuellmich, who is prosecuting those responsible for the Covid-19 scandal manipulated by the Davos Forum.

    In this respect, it is worth recalling that Reiner Fuellmich is the lawyer who succeeded in condemning the automobile giant Volkswagen in the case of the tampered catalytic converters. And it is this same lawyer who succeeded in condemning Deutsche Bank as a criminal enterprise.

    According to Reiner Fuellmich, all the frauds committed by German companies are derisory compared to the damage that the Covid-19 crisis has caused and continues to cause. This Covid-19 crisis should be renamed the “Covid-19 Scandal” and all those responsible should be prosecuted for civil damages due to manipulations and falsified test protocols. Therefore, an international network of business lawyers will plead the biggest tort case of all time, the Covid-19 fraud scandal, which has meanwhile turned into the biggest crime against humanity ever committed.

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      David Maddison

      I’d also like to see a “Nuremberg Trials” for the anthropogenic global warming fraud.

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        Leonard

        Exactly right David. Thanks!
        We need Nuremberg Trials for the climate change fraud and anyone who opposes term limits for all politicians.

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    Peter C

    there’s a molecule called Interleukin 6 which is a “masterplayer” signal in our immune system and — what do you know — B6 reduces it.

    That is interesting. But is that Good or Bad?

    The first lectures in my medical course on pathology in 1972 were about inflammation (or what was know about it back then). The standard model of “acute injury”, meaning the early response to injury was to make a cut in an animal and then study the response. Infection by bacteria was similar but that was called “acute inflammation”.

    I have not kept up with developments since then because it was not so relevant to me. Cytokines? Cytokine storm?
    That was unknown at the time.

    Normally suppressing the immune system would be a BAD thing, However it does seem (occasionally) that the immune system can over react in some situations, thereby making things worse.

    I thought I would read a bit of the first reference in Jo’s article. I read this:

    Interleukin-6 (IL-6) is a member of the pro-inflammatory cytokine family, induces the expression of a variety of proteins responsible for acute inflammation, and plays an important role in the proliferation and differentiation of cells in humans. IL-6 signaling is mediated by building a complex of IL-6, the transmembrane IL-6 receptor (mIL-6R) or with soluble forms of IL-6R (sIL-6R), and the signal-transducing subunit molecule gp130. Therefore, three modes for IL-6 signaling may occur in which IL-6 is binding to mIL-6R (classic), to sIL-6R (trans-signaling), or is joined through IL-6R to gp130 on nearby located cells (trans-presentation). These pathways, and the fact that gp130 is ubiquitously expressed, lead to the pleiotropic functions of IL-6. The control of IL-6 signaling is regulated through the induction of suppressor molecules after activation of the IL-6 pathways as well as through the presence of sIL-6R and gp130 forms in the blood.

    It might mean something to researchers in the field, but I could not understand it.

    I hope they know what they (the researchers) know what they are doing but I will not put my trust in them.

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    UK-Weather Lass

    “I hoped this paper was report on experiments with Covid-19 patients … but”

    Your thoughts, Jo, are apparently shared by virologists in the US who are suggesting much the same thing be done with the testing of the vaccines for efficacy in transmission of the virus. An early preprint from Israel suggests the viral load of an infected vaccinated patient reduces faster and earlier than for an infected unvaccinated patient. Does this mean the vaccination does indeed boost the ‘natural’ immune response or is this simply suggesting that people who have naturally good immune responses to coronaviruses generally deal with Covid-19 likewise? Is it the people who for whatever reason (e.g. a co-morbidity) have immune systems that would struggle with a high viral load attack of a respiratory virus of any kind who need the benefits from ‘the boost’ vaccines give? Finding this out requires some brave research with controlled experiments and perhaps some courageous volunteers. And it is the same with all health matters – we always need to know more at an individual level because we are all unique and knowing how we could improve our immunity is a big positive even if we choose not to follow the good advice offered.

    I think we are struggling with the concept of understanding this virus because we are not yet back into the rational state required to do so. In the UK the statistics for this epidemic seem hopelessly skewed and we are not helping ourselves by continually jumping to predictively unsound conclusions be they from scientists or politicians. We are told this is a novel virus and yet the experts apparently know how best to deal with it when all the data tells us that they don’t have a clue. We still seem to want to eliminate SARS-CoV-2 rather than to live with it and attain herd immunity via both infection and vaccination. We need normality back quickly and a healthy regard to the risks we all faced and conquered every minute of every day pre-Covid-19 and will still face long after this crazy episode is just a bad memory with SARS-CoV-2 still out there somewhere but no more notorious than any other bug you really don’t want to have if you can possibly avoid it …

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    greggg

    Are my comments caught up in moderation because of using a different email? (Using old email with this one).

    [Yes but now approved they should be ok.]AD

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    tygrus

    FYI: The RDI of B6 is around 2mg/day and varies based on age/sex etc.
    While 50mg to 200mg can be useful as needed and well tolerated (eg. a few days); daily doses above 10mg can become toxic for some long term users. Be aware of symptoms such as tingling nerves, restless legs, sensory neuropathy, nausea, depletion of B1,B2,B12 & magnesium (I’ve probably missed something, these are used by body to flush B6 out).

    Anyway, it’s more complicated than this, you can look for more info or talk to a medical doctor. Supplements have risks along with the occasional benefits, user beware.

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      greggg

      Toxicity from 10mg? Only if it is pyridoxine and the user is not metabolising the pyridoxine into active B6. A compromised gut and some drugs can do that. P5P does not have that problem. Though every larger dose of a B vitamin should be accompanied by an active b complex to keep things in balance. Active forms are preferable to get around problems with metabolising pyridoxine, cyanocobalamin and folic.
      Talk to a medical doctor? Most doctors don’t have a clue about nutrition. Your last line should read ‘benefits along with the occasional risks’.

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        Hanrahan

        If the “cyano” in cyanocobalamin sounds familiar, that’s because it is. only use methylcobalamin and as a lozenge, it does not absorb well through the gut.

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    I don’t see how any literature proves extra B6 to be needed to prevent COVID The recommended B6 daily minimum requirement is only 2mg. That should be very easy to get from the food we eat.

    I wondered how much B6 I was getting this morning while eating one cup of wheat bran, with 1% milk, and a vitamin pill for breakfast, I found that I was already at 4mg.
    — The generic multiple vitamin pill contains 2mg.
    — The cup of wheat bran cereal contains 2mg.

    I started studying food labels more closely, and noticed my 1% fat milk was fortified with vitamin A and D, just like that wheat bran cereal is fortified with many B vitamins.

    Lots of foods have added vitamins — check the labels.

    When I first heard of COVID in March 2020, I added one 5000 IU Vitamin D supplement every day, which is useful to keep the immune system up to par. I don’t get much sunlight, so a vitamin D supplement is mandatory. Got the wife to take vitamin D too — she doesn’t get much sun in the winter. To us, vitamin D is low cost health insurance.

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      Richard, no one said “proof”. I said, there are almost no studies. Why is that?

      It’s an interesting idea, it’s worth discussing. And some people might want to take a b6 supplement anyway because it might help a different problem.

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        I would say it makes more sense to take a multiple vitamin pill, or a B-complex vitamin pill, rather than just a B6 supplement.

        It’s very difficult to test the effect of any vitamin because the quantity in the food we eat is so hard to measure.

        And then who would fund an expensive double blind study of a low profit margin vitamin, or new use of a generic drug, such as HCQ?

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    NoFixedAddress

    Totally off topic and no commercial connection to me or anyone I know and I hit 2 on the number pad instead of 6 and I had to laugh!

    https://www.b2bistro.com/

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    Mrs B

    I grew fat on the Standard American Diet (food pyramid). I stopped eating processed food, and banned bread and rice. I now eat a carnivorous diet and am a slim version of my 17 year old body.
    Last year I gained 7 kg due to adding sourdough and wine back to my diet in response to the media gaslighting us every day about social distance g, masking, racism, you name it.
    I am back on track now and have lost over 4 kg of the 7 gained during 2020.
    Seed oils and carbs like bread and rice are out. I eat a special mince from my butcher with beef liver and brain mixed in. On the receipt they call it PET MINCE.

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    Pauly

    The big issue Jo has missed out on is the speed of research in Government Universities.

    I know of a case involving a Pharma Company that had developed a new drug that appeared to be a significant breakthrough in the treatment if skin cancer. The Pharma company went to two top Government Universities for a joint research proposal. The process for getting the joint venture agreement signed and in place was 12 months, yet the research program was only 4 months duration. This was one where the Pharma company was providing all the money and the labs, all the University needed to do was to release some researchers to assist in running the experiments and authoring the papers.

    Unsurprisingly the Pharma company (a) did the research in house and (b) didn’t publish their findings.

    Complain as much as you want to about greed Pharma, but if we had to rely on publicly funded universities to advance technology we’d still be banging rocks together to make fire.

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      Hanrahan

      The big issue Jo has missed out on is…….

      Jo provides the platform. She could not possibly endorse every opinion voiced.

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    CHRIS

    Well well well…do we see some ‘logic’ here? Processed foods are far more dangerous than natural foods; this is purely common sense. The so-called ‘food pyramid’ is just an extension of this fact. Taking any sort of artificial supplements is a joke (unless your GP recommends it…although I would ask if the GP is receiving brown envelopes from the pharmaceutical industry).

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