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Bargain! $2 billion in solar panels powers SA for whole hour on Sunday in Spring!

The ABC, Australian public broadcaster, is excited. For the first “phenomenal time” in the world –  one state, South Australia, managed to produce enough solar power so that (in theory) the whole state was powered by solar electrons for one hour on a Sunday at midday in Spring. It was one of the lowest demand days of the year in one of the smallest markets in Australia. The ABC and AEMO don’t mention that it took about $2 billion in capital infrastructure to achieve this trivial feat.

TonyfromOz points out that during this hour the ABC also don’t mention that natural gas plants were running in SA. Apparently SA was exporting electricity to Victoria and with a magic filter at the border so only fossil powered electrons were sent there. He also points out the ABC forgot to say that South Australia only uses 5% of the National Electricity Market.

SA electricity on October 11 2020

How many versions of natural gas and diesel keep the lights on in SA?  Anero.id

 

In reality, I assume Victoria was the dumping ground for the solar surge — otherwise generators in SA would have to have been shut down or disconnected. Did Victorian baseload generators lose some income while they sat around on standby for the surge to fade?

Phenomenal gushing and free advertising on their ABC:

 All of South Australia’s power comes from solar panels in world first for major jurisdiction

By Richard Davies

South Australia’s renewable energy boom has achieved a global milestone. The state once known for not having enough power has become the first major jurisdiction in the world to be powered entirely by solar energy.

For just over an hour on Sunday, October 11, 100 per cent of energy demand was met by solar panels alone.

“This is truly a phenomenon in the global energy landscape,” Australian Energy Market Operator (AEMO) chief executive Audrey Zibelman said.

Alternately, they could have spent that $2b building a coal plant which would last for generations and power the whole state whenever they felt like they wanted electricity, even if that included every single minute of the day.

Alternately, the SA Government could have spent $30m and kept the old coal plant running at Port Augusta.  That would have left $1,970 million dollars for South Australians to spend on food, health, education or trips to see the Great Barrier Reef before it evaporates.

Don’t miss the magic hour of solar supremacy

Reneweconomy, magic hour of SA solar supremecy.

Reneweconomy marks up the magic hour of SA solar supremecy.

Adding up the $ 2 billion cost of all that solar infrastructure

  • The Tailem Bend Solar Plant (95 MW) cost $200 million.
  • Bungala Solar PV Plant, Port Augusta (220 MW) cost  $315 million USD.
  • Around 270,000 electricity customers in the state have rooftop solar, adding up to some 1.5 gigawatts of capacity. Current cost (lowest) is $6,000 for 6kW.  So in today’s market, that’s about $1.5 billion dollars for all that solar. Most of it would have cost more at the time.
  • Plus there are subsidies.

In September 2018, the South Australian Government announced that it would offer $100M in state government subsidies for up to 40,000 households to install battery storage in their homes. Eligible home owners and renters could receive $500 per kWh up to a maximum of $6,000 for eligible solar and battery systems [42]

The real total is so much higher. This barely considers all the soft subsidies, the interconnector cost, the transmission lines, the batteries, the extra costs for FCAS (frequency control) and spinning condensors etc etc to make up for the lack of system inertia.

The Grid is like “lungs” (that breathe once a day?)

The price of solar includes rearranging your day and night so that you do everything at midday or pay big money to install batteries to compensate for the uselessness of your solar panels for 60% of the day.

Paul Roberts is SA Power Networks spokesman. He says “get excited”.

“It’s an exciting future for South Australia and we have a whole number of things that we are putting in place to manage that,” he said.

That includes making it cheaper for people to use power during the day and encouraging people to switch on dishwashers, pool pumps and hot water systems in the middle of the day.

The next step is convincing more people to connect batteries to store cheap energy during the day.

“The grid needs to become increasingly like a set of lungs,” AEMO chief external affairs officer Tony Chappel said.

“During the day, the lungs would breathe in and excess energy can be stored and then in the evening when the sun’s gone down, that energy can be fed back.”

We the people are excited. Once, we got power anytime and everytime we wanted it, which was predictable, boring and cheap. Now we are part of a living grid that breathes free electricity into our homes at lunchtime but otherwise eats $100 bills straight from our wallet.

The ABC claps and asks no hard questions like, how much will it cost? Will it really stop storms? How many degrees cooler will the world be? Are there cheaper ways to reduce CO2 emissions? Does reducing man-made CO2 even change atmospheric CO2 levels? Will we be able to measure the benefit of this ever by any means? Are the Chinese rolling on the floor laughing at our pagan stupidity?

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Rating: 9.7/10 (86 votes cast)
Bargain! $2 billion in solar panels powers SA for whole hour on Sunday in Spring!, 9.7 out of 10 based on 86 ratings

103 comments to Bargain! $2 billion in solar panels powers SA for whole hour on Sunday in Spring!

  • #

    Another thing that was umm, not mentioned.

    On that same day total exports of generated power amounted to 1.8GWH. However, total imports of power (brown coal fired power from Victoria no less) came in at 2.8GWH.

    You can see that at this link. (you know, I umm, might be telling a porky) It opens up at the 7day Default, so where you see that red highlighted 7D at top left, click on the 30D alongside that, and when that opens, click on Sunday 11October.

    Tony.

    340

    • #

      So on the best day of the year for SA Solar the state could not even power itself (with solar and everything else) for a whole day?

      360

      • #
        Jojodogfacedboy

        The media and Government sponsored subsidies would have you believe that this “Green Plan” is our future when in fact, it is a huge fraud.

        Oh look at pretty butterflies while our governments pick your pockets for your last loose change.

        170

        • #
          OriginalSteve

          Have you noticed how quiet the whole earth hour hug fest has gone?

          At one stage it was all save the planet blah blah….

          Now its arrest people, stomp on thier heads, drag them out of cars and forcibly put masks on them … gotta love the Left…

          100

    • #
      Ken Stewart

      Meanwhile at 1.30 this morning in Queensland coal was producing 103.1% of the state’s electricity, rooftop solar nil, solar farms were USING electricity. Handy site, Tony!

      190

      • #

        Umm, Ken, and all of you really, see how you do something here to umm, just have a look around to see what gets shown, and without even knowing, (or even looking for it) something totally unexpected might just turn up, eh.

        You know how (humungously) cheap those renewables of choice are, way way cheaper than coal fired power.(/sarc)

        Well as Ken did above, go to that site, and at the top left there, click on one day (1D) and then 5m on the next button to the right. Now, immediately above that, at the right hand drop down menu which shows NEM and the 5 States, click on each of the States one at a time, and just hover you mouse over 1.30AM, just as Ken did. (the time shows small above the graph itself, or at far right top)

        As you do that for each State, then look across at the far right where it shows the cost of generating ALL the power, shown as AvValue, and look at the very top number there.

        Then do that for all the States.

        Note that Queensland with ALL of its power (and that 103% of it as coal fired) is the cheapest of them all.

        Now who would have thought that coal fired power would be cheaper eh?

        Tony.

        230

    • #
      Hivemind

      Try NSW, coal is shown in black. Subtle, they aren’t.

      60

  • #
    Russell

    But Audrey says: “Now, we are thinking about an energy system where there are essentially free electrons coming from renewables …”.
    How could they possibly have cost $2B? Only the outer electrons are free? Maybe they should be called Turnbull electrons?

    180

  • #
    Another Ian

    “Aynsley Kellow
    #3633459, posted on October 26, 2020 at 12:56 pm

    It has occurred to me that renewables are analogous to a train with now engine. It is very cheap when the slope of the track is downhill. It has very low running costs because gravity (like the sun and wind) is free. The problem comes when the track is flat or uphill. Then, the makers of the engineless train expect someone else to do the lifting – not just the heavy lifting, but all the lifting. Their train has no way of getting from Melbourne to Sydney, but their low marginal running costs destroy the business case for investing in the equipment that can.”

    And for the correction

    “Aynsley Kellow
    #3633461, posted on October 26, 2020 at 12:57 pm

    ‘without an engine’!!! Damned autocorrect!!!”

    In comments at

    https://catallaxyfiles.com/2020/10/26/putting-the-wind-up-the-re-carpetbaggers/

    80

  • #
    Graeme No.3

    The “joke” is that solar is driving wind out of the market.
    The AEMO demands an amount of reliable electricity to safeguard against a State wide blackout (not that it stops numbers of suburbs going dark). As the amount of solar rises it reaches a point where the demand is filled. The reliable generation MUST come next.

    Add up the Demand + amount exportable minus solar +reliable and you have how much is available for wind generation. In practice wind farms are being selectively shut down when generation conditions are favourable, leading to a drop in their Capacity Factor from just over 30% to 27%. In other words wind generators are losing just over 10% of their output. It reduces their profits substantially.
    More solar will make things worse, but the SA Government wants more solar. Eventually they will reach a point where solar output is too high and the State grid will collapse. That is why they are attempting to get access to the NSW market with an interconnector. But they are rushing into more solar BEFORE the safety valve (interconnector) is built. I would add some comments on the collective intelligence of the State Govt. but it wouldn’t get through moderation, despite mentally retarded mice receiving a favourable rating.

    211

    • #
      RickWill

      Actually rooftops are driving grid scale WDGs out of the market. Rooftops get priority export. The only way they are limited is by over voltage; already a common problem.

      You can bet that none of the new rooftop installations are figuring in the automatic curtailment through over voltage. This is the first year I have seen the local supply regularly at or slightly above the voltage limit. A few new 6kW systems on nearby roofs are really pushing the voltage to the limit. May not be so bad once the air-conditioners crank up but for now over voltage is very common.

      On the other hand, proponents of grid scale WDGs are looking at curtailment very seriously. Hence pushing for higher capacity interconnections into other regions.

      41

      • #
        Analitik

        Yep, rooftop PV curtailment through over-voltage is not legal but it’s being done to keep grids stable and PV owners are getting narkey about not getting their “fair credit” for exports.

        31

        • #
          Graeme#4

          Rooftop PV over-voltage curtailment not legal? Not sure if I’m interpreting you correctly, but the revised inverter standard means that inverter shutdown due to over-voltage is now mandatory.

          20

          • #
            Analitik

            What I’m saying is that the grid operators are allowing voltages to rise beyond the specified limits so that that rooftop PV inverters go into over-voltage curtailment to limit output (since tolerances and local subnet demand differences will mean some inverters will shut down and others won’t).

            This is not legal operating practice by the grid operators but it is a sign of their desperation to control the output of rooftop PV systems as an aggregate.

            And inverter shutdown when over-voltage is reached has always been a requirement for grid connected systems AFAIK

            41

            • #
              Graeme#4

              Ok, understood. The inverter standard was revised to tighten the overvolt cutoff range.

              20

            • #
              Graeme No.3

              The drawback is those ‘cheaper’ appliances from (a place that must not be named but is north of Vietnam) are probably made to Specifications of 230V±10% whereas the over-voltage locally is 240±10% : that is 217 to 253V Vs local of 216 to 256V.
              My inverter reported a grid over-voltage of 276V, My neigbour who has been monitoring this longer reports 270V.

              00

              • #
                Analitik

                Yep. This “safety concern” is the argument that the rooftop PV proponents (Tristan Edis as a prime example) are presenting as the reason that grid operators need to keep line voltage to the specified limits. It’s a reasonable point except that the root cause of the problem is the amount of rooftop PV that has been installed.

                This is a prime example of the grid operators going beyond reasonable efforts to keep the grid up in the face of the instability caused by intermittent renewables. In a way, I hope they get their way so South Australia’s grid collapses again to drive home just how these stupid forms of electricity generation are without them having to provide some form of buffering (at their cost – not stashed away in miscellaneous charges to be borne by the consumer).

                10

    • #
      Analitik

      And the AEMO requirement was added on the request of the South Australian Labor Energy & Mineral Resources Minister (& Treasurer, Finance, State Development, Automotive Transformation and Small Business Minister), Tom Koutsantonis back in 2016 because he KNEW that the SA grid was dangerously fragile when renewables put most of the state’s thermal generators offline.

      Note: this was WELL BEFORE the statewide blackout later that year

      https://www.aemc.gov.au/sites/default/files/content/6c2140e8-36d5-4178-8640-e6d9a046929d/Rule-change-request-Emergency-under-frequency-control-schemes-ERC0212.pdf

      41

  • #
    David Maddison

    Another cost not mentioned is the loss of jobs, personal wealth and the overall loss of economic productivity due to the high cost of “green” power. Low energy costs used to be one of Australia’s competitive advantages, now we have among the highest electricity costs in the world. All for nothing.

    161

  • #
  • #
    Seedy

    For ONE whole hour in a fortnight SA was powered by solar & wind !
    How many hours are there in a day ? Answer 24 hours
    How many hours are there in a week ? Answer 168 hours
    How many hours are there in a fortnight ? Answer 336 hours
    So SA was powered by ‘renewables’ for 0.00297 % of the time !
    Truly it’s a bloody ‘MIRACLE’
    And the ABC is boasting about it ?
    I suggest that the ABC in SA be powered exclusively by miracle solar electron

    160

    • #
      Reed Coray

      Not that it makes a whole lot of difference, but isn’t one hour every 336 hours 0.297% of the time?

      40

      • #
        Seedy

        My calculator deceived me Reed Cooray.
        Yes actually 0.29% of the fortnight.
        Not that it makes much difference.

        10

  • #
    • #
      Analitik

      The best Fake News contains a sliver of truth to provide an element of credibility. At the end of the day, it’s all about taking things out of context which is best achieved by minimizing the details reported to the masses

      30

  • #
    OB

    That’s wonderful! Now about the other 8,759 hours?

    60

  • #
    Serge Wright

    Excellent news.
    Now we can chop off their extension cord to make sure they stay 100% RE.

    100

  • #
    Jojodogfacedboy

    China is having one hell of a good laugh at our collective stupidity collecting money and resources for projects that are designed to fail.
    Is it a wonder that your new 3 year old water taps fail when made in China is designed it to fail with metal springs that rust in the water?
    Planned obsolescence is one good business model that keeps you hooked to always needing to replace them.

    130

    • #
      Saighdear

      How did you KNOW THAT? !! You’re darn right – I’ve fitted CERAMIC taps which have failed within 12 months – put it down to the modern treatment system ( to EU Standards) where we get some kind of gritt coming through the line. Just like Xmas Tatt – shipped from said continent sold , fancy wrapped , gifted, played with & broke, return to said continent at your expense ( more than value of Tatt) OR NOT: 1-way tripper to Skip at Council expense (your) to be shipped back to Continent of Origin. Win win! – for said Continent, total LOSS& Frustration back home, Tears, even maybe. Yep, nobody makes quality Tat here any more. All or nothing —> Zilch. Good Ol’ Covi! Cancellling Xmas will give less Tatt – so for once will have a Merry Tattless Real Christmas ! Win WIN forthe planet ater all, eh?

      50

  • #
    Saighdear

    Meanwhile, ….. in a somewhat Sunny Cold STILL Day ( Windmills not turning) in NE Scotland, despite the forecasted temps etc etc etc, we have FROST on the gorund ( not supposed to be there ) when local Temps are around 4 -6C and Wind + Remnants of Harry Epsilon are due tonight/tomorrow ;-)

    However, HOW COULD the Greensies manage to Engineer the stupid notion that Windmills and ( definitely PART-TIME ) SOLAR couldpower the word? AS proper engineers ( not in charge of our / THEIR DESTINY) know, Steam generating Power stations cannot be fired up with afew seconds notice as Loads can dictate and weather interferes. Consequently as these new generators whirr away gleefully and blissfully ignorant of the Real world, the Backroom boys of Steam generation or Direct Driven Diesel/Gas Burning generators have to run on free-wheel in the background. …. the Scottish Fish Mister Sturgeon also like to Bump her Gums about suc events from time to time – ye happily sticks out her clammy wee paws for the oil taxes to pay ASIAN companies to do her dirty work of aiding abetting fossil fuel production or the notional ( current) fabrication of weenmull Marine structures to the disadvantage of our local wo Fabrication Yards “on the doorstep”.

    60

  • #

    Solar infrastructure is the future. I see no shortcomings in the development of this industry in Australia.

    03

    • #
      Graeme#4

      Despite a few obvious facts like the sun doesn’t always shine, and solar CF is so small that you would have to carpet a fair bit of a country to achieve any worthwhile output? And let’s not forget their short lifetimes compared to coal, gas or nuclear.

      30

      • #
        Serp

        …and their catastrophic vulnerability to ordinary atmospheric events such as tornado or monster hail and the automatic shutdown when the day is too hot.

        10

  • #
    David Maddison

    The Left keep telling us that the unreliables are now so cheap they will put proper power stations out of business. If that’s the case, why do they need subsidies?

    181

  • #
    David Maddison

    Consumers should be able to select whether their supply comes from unreliables or proper power stations. Smart meters can do this with appropriate software to run such a scheme.

    81

    • #
      PeterS

      That’s a good idea provided there’s no third choice of electing both power sources. That would mean when the sun goes down and the wind doesn’t blow those who elect for renewables will have no power. What better way to enforce reality onto the fools and eventually no one will buy solar/wind power from them thus sending them broke.

      90

      • #
        David Maddison

        Agreed Peter. At no point should properly produced power be allowed to back up unreliables. You must commit to one or the other. Once the wind stops blowing and the sun stops shining and any batteries run flat, you go offline.

        61

  • #
    Ben

    This ‘lots of solar’ scenario is actually a white-knuckle situation for the grid – it’s operating on a knife edge in these circumstances.

    Any cloud, or load change, or upset on the interconnector can cause a sudden drop in volts or frequency, and with nothing to absorb the change (eg synchronous generators) and increase or reduce output, resulting in cascading failure of the grid – widespread blackouts.

    https://aemo.com.au/-/media/files/electricity/nem/security_and_reliability/congestion-information/2020/operational-management-of-low-demand-in-south-australia.pdf?la=en

    90

  • #
    Rafe Champion

    Dont get too excited about the amount of RE in the mid-afternoon, have a look at the situation at dinnertime!

    https://catallaxyfiles.com/2020/09/27/re-feast-to-famine-in-half-a-day/

    30

  • #
    Rafe Champion

    The point is that the sustainability of RE depends on the minimum level of supply, not the installed capacity or the high points! Until the whole of the demand can be satisfied by RE at the lowest level of sun and wind supply we will have to maintain 100% conventional power capacity if we want hot dinners.

    What if we increased the supply of windmills by a factor of 20 to cover a situation like today where the wind is contributing 5% in the evening? Today the low point of the wind supply from midday to early evening was 10% of the max capacity that is just down to the level that I describe as a “wind drought.” But we know from June and July that the supply can drop well below 10% of the installed capacity (as low as 2%) and it can stay there for more than 30 hours. Good luck with storage that can replace 20GW of coal power for that period. The Hornsdale battery could manage 2GW for about five minutes.

    100

  • #
    Andrew

    So we’re moving off peak to midday, when power is cheapest because sun.

    That’s great. I love waking in the morning and showering in cold water that was heated yesterday midday, basking in the knowledge that it will be toasty warm when I wash my hands after taking a piss at lunch time. Really enjoying this new world. So much better than when the water was heated overnight.

    100

    • #
      PeterS

      I would not be surprised if some would be willing to live out that scenario all in the name of saving the earth from a mythical global warming catastrophe. I place them in the same category as those who believe the earth is flat.

      60

  • #
    David Maddison

    Can we please not refer to the unreliables as “renewable energy”?

    It can’t be “renewed” on demand.

    Try “renewing” it when the wind doesn’t blow or the sun doesn’t shine. Renewable surely should mean you have it when you need it, not at random times?

    Proper power generation can be easily “renewed” on demand.

    With coal or gas power you just burn some more fuel. With nuclear, you just keep the fission process going. With properly engineered hydro, you just release more water, making sure to not exhaust your water supply.

    91

  • #
    David Maddison

    Energy cost is a fundamental input into the economy and its cost is added to all goods and services, directly or indirectly.

    We all suffer and are victims of the compulsory use of expensive unreliables.

    Only those stupid enough to believe the anthropogenic global warming lie should use unreliables and pay their true cost. Rational people should be allowed to purchase properly produced energy (coal, gas, nuclear, correctly engineered hydro) at free market prices.

    21

  • #
    Robber

    So on SA’s Sunny Sunday Oct 11, across the 24 hours solar delivered 36% of SA demand of 1,333 MW, wind 9%, gas 52% and imports 3% (Imports 9%, exports 6% depending on time of day).
    The average wholesale price for the day? $55.68/MWhr. Hardly “free” electrons.
    On Wed Oct 21, a not so sunny day with demand 1,458 MW, solar delivered 28% of demand, wind 12%, gas 53%, imports 10%, exports 4%, average price $82.33/MWhr.

    For Oct to date, average SA price $32.97/MWhr.
    It’s wind that drives SA prices, hence the pressure to provide an interconnector to NSW to absorb the surplus.
    SA survives because it’s such a small part of the AEMO grid. For Sept, average SA demand 1,722 MW, Vic demand 6,015 MW, NSW 7,847 MW.

    SA generator nameplate capacity includes 3,462 MW of gas/diesel, 2,142 MW of wind, 378 MW of large solar, and about 1,300 MW of rooftop solar, grand total 7,200 MW.
    All that mostly idle capacity to meet a peak summer demand of 3,200 MW.

    50

  • #
    David Maddison

    If Australia was a proper country lead by smart people the whole of SA could be served by just one largish or two regular sized real power stations.

    But alas, Australia is now one of the dumbest countries on the planet with Leftists being allowed to implement their insane and destructive policies at every level without restriction.

    And despite the regular misquote of Donald Horne, he only said Australia was a lucky country because we still prospered despite the incompetence of our leadership. Well, the 1960′s when he wrote that are over and Australia is no longer prospering, and unless we have proper free market economic policies including the wholesale removal of unreliable energy production, we will never prosper again.

    The present Federal Government is useless, they are only slightly less bad than Green Labor.

    Better learn Putonghua.

    The correct Horne quote was:

    Australia is a lucky country run mainly by second rate people who share its luck. It lives on other people’s ideas, and, although its ordinary people are adaptable, most of its leaders (in all fields) so lack curiosity about the events that surround them that they are often taken by surprise.

    101

    • #
      Ross

      Again , great comments DM. I too prefer” intermittents” over “renewables”. They are not “wind farms” ( sounds too cute and cuddly), they are “wind powered electricity generation plants”. I’ve never read the full Donald Horne quote-its actually very cynical and may I say depressingly accurate.

      50

    • #

      David correctly says this:(my bolding here)

      If Australia was a proper country lead by smart people the whole of SA could be served by just one largish or two regular sized real power stations.

      So, South Australia has 22 wind plants with (around) 1150 individual wind towers, two solar power plants, 31 fossil fuel plants, and a Gazillion teensy weensy power plants on rooftops.

      We are told ad infinitum that we need so many because of the power losses, distributed power, community power etc etc etc.

      So the age of single huge centrally located power plants delivering power to an overall large jurisdiction is sooooooo 20th Century and won’t ever happen again.

      Oh, except for that monster solar plant in the NW of WA to supply Singapore that is.

      Tony.

      (Puhleeze do not ever think this solar plant as described is anything other than a thought bubble from someone whose electrical knowledge is a Lego model)

      170

  • #
    David Maddison

    One of the things keeping Australia’s shaky electricity grid going is the closure of the manufacturing industry.

    This liberates a significant amount of power and lessens the impact of these disastrous “green” energy policies.

    In regard to windmills that pollute our once-beautiful landscape, as a by-product, perhaps the windmill operators can set up road side stalls where they cook and sell the carcasses of the rare and endangered birds their windmills kill. It will surely be a green and environmentally sustainable food source? Nothing tastier than an environmentally killed endangered bird species.

    91

  • #
    Chad

    Until someone can explain convincingly how Roof top Solar generation is measured ( on a state wide scale) reasonably accurately……. i say the whole claim is BULL5H1T !
    The AEMO does not have the ability to know how much solar power Bruce in Woop Woop is producing,..let alone every single RT installation across the state.
    So the data on that report ( and every other RT Solar report).. is simply an ESTIMATE based on some other ESTIMATED figures of panel sales, average output, likely sun exposure, etc etc etc.
    ..and you can bet it is not an UNDER ESTIMATION !!

    90

    • #
      PeterS

      It really makes no sense to measure their output anyway given they are intermittent, unlike base load power generation systems like coal and nuclear. I mean imagine if coal power stations could only supply power for say 4 hours of each day. What use is that? None at all. Even if they produced enough power to supply all the needs for the other 20 hours, it would be all a waste without a means to store that excess power. The cost of storing that much power would be prohibitive. The obvious solution is to rely on coal to produce enough power on demand 24 hours. I still shake my head as to why we even bother to keep using solar and wind. If anything they should be banned, and instead we should be focusing on building coal and/or nuclear power stations, like virtually every other nation is doing that’s eager to sustain their economies rather than destroying them as we are.

      60

      • #
        Chad

        If they cannot measure, record, and report it on a frequent time basis,….then they cannot claim to have the data that shows how much is being generated .
        Simple ..they are LIARS !….
        ..FAKE NEWS. !

        41

        • #

          Okay then, just how much does rooftop solar actually generate, you know at the best case scenario guesstimate that they actully guess it to be.

          Take this link to yesterday Tuesday 27th October, and this shows the Load Curve for rooftop solar power generation on an Australia wide basis, and this is based on the actual insolation curve for solar power.

          Now, the reason I have linked you here is to show you just one thing.

          Solar supporters will proudly proclaim that Australia now has 12,000MW of rooftop solar power generation. Amazing, eh, 12 whole Gigawatts. Almost enough to power ten Deloreans eh.

          Here we are now approaching Summer and the peak time of year for the best solar power generation.

          Look at that graph for power generation.

          Impressive eh!

          Starts to generate at 5.30AM and goes all the way through to 7PM.

          However, hover your mouse over the highest point for the day.

          So, umm, 12000MW of rooftop power delivers just 4680MW at the absolute best for the day. That’s at a Capacity Factor of just 40% at the BEST for the day.

          On this day, rooftop solar power generated (best case guesstimate) 35GigaWattHours of power. That’s at a CF of a little over 12%.

          Imagine a car only running one time in every eight that you try to start it, or getting you one eighth of the way to where you want to go. You’d be looking up ‘Lemon Laws’ on the Internet pretty darned quick eh!

          Tony.

          80

          • #
            Graeme#4

            Tony, today I received a total daily amount of 30 kWh using a 5 kW system. So that’s a CF of 16.7%. However, during winter, can easily be half of this.

            20

    • #
      RickWill

      They make an estimate of output but the reality is the hollowing out of demand on grid scale generators as the sun shines. South Australia will probably be the first significant location with grid power to have zero demand on grid generators but lights are still on. They will need to have gas plant running along with synchronous condensers for stability but the excess power supplying Victoria. SA is close to suppling all its internal Sunday lunch demand from rooftops. You can bet it will be heralded with great fanfare and broadcast across the globe as a great achievement.

      The upside is that rooftops are displacing grid scale WDGs. Rooftops are Average Joe’s means of screwing the grid. Screwing the grid is no longer the domain of investors like Turnbull Jr.

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        Chad

        Rick, RT Solar in SA wont be allowed to screw up the grid now, as AEMO have been given the authority to switch off domestic panel output if necessary.
        And not on just new systems..but any existing system also !
        https://www.afr.com/companies/energy/operators-get-power-to-switch-off-solar-panels-20200619-p5547r

        The 275,000 solar households in South Australia face periods where power authorities will switch off their rooftop panels remotely under measures designed to improve electricity grid stability.
        State Energy Minister Dan van Holst Pellekaan said the government was underwriting $10 million being spent on hi-tech voltage management for power company SA Power Networks to help manage a surge in solar panel uptake. One in three households in the state have solar panels.

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        • #
          RickWill

          The grid was screwed from the very first connection of intermittent generation. It was inevitable that the price of electricity would rise and the end state is a low quality grid supply. Those wanting reliable power will make and store their own.

          The grid has become the same as public transport. It will continue to degrade while those who demand meter will go their own way.

          Think about those 275k households that get shut down for grid stability. A good number of them will be chasing the government money for batteries. So the AEMO approach will cause an unintended backlash with people who can afford to go in a different direction. That means those reliant on the grid will be paying more.

          The grid was doomed after the first intermittent was connected.

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    Geoffrey Williams

    Soon South Australia will be totally reliant on Interconnections. (If it isn’t already)
    So what happens when all the States reach the same situation of Interconnection reliability?
    Someone should ask the question in Parliament, but they wont;
    They’re afraid of upsetting the green left,the ABC,and all the other people out there who vote ‘green’ because of sentiment instead of reasoning.
    GeoffW

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    • #
      RickWill

      SA lost its big battery, Victoria, for two weeks earlier in the year. First call was to prohibit wind generators from connecting. They would have paid a small fortune for local stability services if they had not been shut down in any case. AEMO also took control of the Hornsdale Power Reserve so they had better control on stability. The cost of stability services added $200M to their electricity bill over the two week period. Basically forced to run high cost gas plant rather than getting that service for next to nothing from Victoria.

      The only reason SA can get its current penetration of intermittent power is its access to Victoria. When it gets the 850MVA connector to NSW it will be able to add more grid scale WDGs. Bit none is possible without interconnections. Rooftop solar is about all they can handle and that is close to its safe limit as a stand alone network. They have enough dispatchable capacity to stand alone but could not tolerate the ups and downs of WDGs at the current level without solid links to other states. Victoria is giving SA a free ride that has caused wholesale price in Victoria to double. NSW will soon enjoy that please of serving SA in the same way.

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    Dennis

    ABC accounting would be similar to their usual quote using revenue to claim company tax evasion, instead of taxable profit.

    SA based on nameplate capacity?

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  • #
    TdeF

    I can’t wait for the solar powered car. Only works for a hour in the middle of the day. Sometimes. Not in winter or at night. It could be the smugmobile. No air conditioning though. That would harm the ozone layer.

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    • #
      TdeF

      Limited of course to one person and no shopping and no hills and no wind and on a smooth flat road. Adelaide then.

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    • #

      Hilarious. Your talent is wasted here.

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      Dennis

      Yes, and driving at speeds faster than a human walking pace will greatly reduce range, but the advantage of this is that a flag carrying person can walk in front to warn people that it is coming.

      wink!

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      • #
        TdeF

        Yes, exactly. The real invention in the last decade was the move to Mild Hybrid, tested in formula 1 racing as KERS, kinetic energy recovery system. Only 16% battery. All the advantages of battery and none of the downside. Massive range. A cheap family Camry hybrid will go 700 miles on 13 gallons, 50mpg. Self charging. And not lugging a huge 600kg/1300lb of lithium batteries around corners. Every year we burn 1 million years of stored solar power and the real objective must be to maximize that and hybrids do that, doubling our resources. Teslas eat coal.

        By its very limited nature, solar power has very limited uses at enormous cost. And would be much better used directly for say pool heating or remote communications. But if you have infinite amounts of other people’s money, why be frugal? South Australia is an economic basket case propped up with our billions. I cannot wait for their scary new diesel submarine deterrent, totally obsolete before they have even started.

        The shame is that so many other sources of renewable power, like burning aluminium, are not being developed because of the obsession of the science ignorant greens with animist sun, wind and water. Who put druids in charge of science?

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        • #
          Another Ian

          Gee! Eh!

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        • #
          Chad

          “Mild Hybrid” generally refers to the 48v “Altermotor” systems as used by GM 10 yrs ago in varius vehicles in the US, and more recently being adopted by Audi, VW, and Merc in Europe…its a relatively simple replacement of the alternator and starter motor with a poweerful (15kW) unit to stsrtthe ice and assist under accelleration.
          Toyota Camry, Prius, Lexus, etc are full Series Hybrids able to run independently on either ICE or electric power …albeit with a very limited range

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          • #
            TdeF

            Thanks. That’s clearer. Using the starter motor as a drive system directly on the flywheel.

            “Toyota estimates that the all-electric range varies between 16 to 24 km (10 to 15 miles)”

            What that means is that you can get into and out of electric only places, like the inner city. This is becoming a requirement of Green inner city councils in Europe. As is the ban on nuclear reactors or bombs in some cities in Melbourne. You have to wonder what is in the water.

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      • #
        Another Ian

        Well some of these then?

        “CNN Proposes Climate Friendly Battery Powered Military Vehicles”

        https://wattsupwiththat.com/2020/10/27/cnn-proposes-climate-friendly-battery-powered-military-vehicles/

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        • #
          TdeF

          Wow. An Abrams Tank with a battery? Usually a huge gas turbine. Or 2,000 litres. So if a Tesla 120amp hour is equivalent to say 80 litres, that would be 25x as long as a Tesla. Just what you need in the context of a battle. The real downside is that the battery has to be 25x as big, so another 12 tonnes of battery. And of course you need space for it. And you just hope the battery is not fragile or liable to explosion in battlefield conditions. Ha! Completely nuts.

          And of course the insanity of an environmentally friends 70 tonne battle tank? Does no one see the contradiction? What about an environmentally friendly plutonium warhead?

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          • #
            Another Ian

            TdeF

            You’re doing well (IMO)

            Pause for breath and then mention -

            Charge time

            Under battlefield conditions

            Length of extension lead – from what?

            No doubt others will add

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  • #
    Analitik

    Did anyone else get a credit offer from their electricity retailer if they participate in “demand management” events?

    Blackouts coming our way real soon (as in this summer)

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    David Maddison

    Remember back in the day when cheap night time power from real generators was “dumped” by heating off peak hot water or aluminium production?

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    Paul C

    This was an eye opening read. Lungs breathing in and out is such a good way to explain battery storage! This is unbelievable that solar supplied almost all of the energy required by South Australia at a point in time. It’s the sparking of a new era. It puts me in mind of the dawning of the steam age that kick started the industrial revolution. There must have been a point in time where engines for the first time provided more automation for vehicles than horses. Imagine where things will be at in 50 years! Exciting time to be young!

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    • #
      Cookster

      Solar supplied for how long? Meanwhile all that power dumped to the grid in the middle of the day causes havoc with coal powered generators which actually have the ability to keep the lights on at night and all winter with low sunlight levels and high demand for power to keep us warm.

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    CHRIS

    I got my half-yearly report from my Super Fund today. In it, they ranted on about investment in renewable energy sources and how to keep our carbon footprint low. I immediately sent them an email asking to explain what “low carbon footprint” meant, and pointed out that renewable energy sources are currently being heavily subsidised. I can’t wait for a reply (if I ever get one). The only reason I’m keeping my money in Super is that, for me, any earnings is tax-free. In general, the Superannuation Industry is just a bunch of boofheads, totally blind to the reality of renewable energy and its minimal influence on society

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    • #
      Cookster

      I doubt you will get a reply. Paul Keating’s compulsory superannuation contribution which now stands at 9.5% throws literally trillions of dollars into the laps of super fund managers to play with. These super funds, including union controlled industry funds are being actively manipulated by activist investors demanding climate “action”. As a result last week we read that ANZ bank introduced lending new rules for farmers which stipulate a progression to zero net emissions by 2050. Without nuclear energy this isn’t possible.

      I suggest you check if your fund has allocated share to ANZ Bank and if so demand this share be reallocated elsewhere. “Balanced” funds are an example where few know where our money is invested and these activist investors take advantage.

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  • #
    Angus Black

    Disappointing to see the lack of ambition amongst the climate alarmist lobby.

    With modern technology it is clearly possible to store excess heat generated during summer…and use it to warm us all up in winter.

    Dishwashing at midday? Phooey!

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  • #
    Matt

    If anyone wonders why it is so expensive to get ‘free’ renewable power, just ask a yachtie how much it costs to maintain or replace equipment that powers their boat for ‘free’, it costs a small fortune to get something for nothing.

    Now on a different subject, I only found out by listening to AM radio in the middle of the night that Winton in western Queensland has commissioned a geothermal power station with a net output of around 100KW, now that’s renewable power you can believe in

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  • #
    Cookster

    Hi Jo, I have been away for a while, just dropped in to see you are still keeping up the fight and poking holes in the logic of the renewables (unreliables) dreamers ….. a big THANK YOU! Until I came to your site I just assumed what we were being told about Al Gore’s movie was right. That was back in 2006. 14 years and billions or perhaps trillions of dollars in subsidies later and there is still no renewable energy technology that can realistically replace base-load power of coal. Special thanks to TonyfromOz who replied to a comment of mine and pointed out the utter futility of solar and wind to replace coal. Good to see Tony still contributing to your site.

    On another point, when I open my web browser every day the home page is Microsoft news. A story flashed up in front of me this morning mentioning one of your old favorites – 91 year old Noam Chomski (link below). Noam says (very predictably) that “Trump’s denial of climate change represents a worse threat to humanity than Hitler!” Can you believe this guy? No mention of advanced economy China of course who under the Paris farce get to build as many coal fired power stations as they want for another decade. The story refers to Chomski as a “public intellectual and activist”. I say 99% activist 1% intellectual.

    “Intellectuals” like Chomski always refer to the captured science. They never want to talk about engineering and the fact that wind, solar power and batteries have no hope whatsoever of replacing coal. That is someone else’s problem.

    Then there is this latest fad sadly being led by Australia’s Corporates – like ANZ bank. ANZ have now changed their lending policies to include climate “action” in the approval criteria and the stipulation that Australia move to zero net emissions by 2050. Pretty sure it is completely impossible for Australia to become zero net emissions without nuclear energy. Are any of these dreamers suggesting we need to get a move on with nuclear? Of course not. Its a joke. None of these people will be in jobs by then and can’t be held accountable for the economic devastation they are prescribing now.

    The Chomski article mentions that solar energy, onshore wind energy, geothermal energy, hydro power is already at cost parity or are cheaper than coal and nuclear power for generating electricity. So, over time it will pay for itself. This is a disgraceful claim. Solar and wind are intermittent energy sources and cost parity is only whilst the wind blows and the sun shines. Also notice the demonization nuclear. These people want to de-industrialize the developed world and have no skin in the game.

    https://www.msn.com/en-au/news/world/trump-s-denial-of-climate-change-represents-worse-threat-to-humanity-than-hitler-says-activist-noam-chomsky/ar-BB1aya4r?ocid=msedgdhp

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    • #
      Lucky

      Chomsky. Mad, bad and dangerous. He pushes all the woke buttons from carbon alarmism to supporting terrorism, will support any harmful nonsense if it is anti-American (=anti-west).

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  • #
    macha

    Is this bit out of date or state thing…
    “Current cost (lowest) is $6,000 for 6kW”

    In WA, there are heaps adverting 6.6KW for $3,000-ish.

    Closing down sales?

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    • #
      Cookster

      Not sure about WA but in NSW subsidies reduce the price of a 6kw system from 6k to 3k. How do I know? I just received such a quote. That subsidy is passed onto other electricity consumers. Then there is the feed-on tariff which are also passed to other electricity users.

      00