Terry McCrann pretty neatly shows the vacuity of our Climate Change Authority. We need to reduce our quality of living, change the main source of energy our civilization was built on, in order to reduce our emissions by an amount so small, that others have already undone it by a factor of 120, (and that’s just since 2009). The Climate Change Authority say that our efforts are not good enough and it would be much more realistic if the rest of the world had only undone our “achievements” by a factor of 40. Their main argument (if you could call it that) is that “the world” would not think less of us? (Like we care.)
It’s an idea so silly, it barks. This is our national conversation.
MEET the fantasists of the Climate Change Authority – an institution spawned by the deal between former prime minister Julia Gillard and her climate change minister Greg Combet with former Greens leader Bob Brown; and, hopefully, to be as short-lived as its fellow blot on the public policy landscape, the already terminated Climate Commission. –
…in the alternative universe that the CCA nine inhabit, … the entire world must have joined hands, the Chinese lion lain down with the American lamb, to agree, somewhere in all that, to cut CO2 emissions.
Never mind that the only thing that has happened since Copenfloppen is exactly the same thing that happened before it: global emissions, led by of course China, just keep going up.
In 2009, according to the US Energy Information Administration, global CO2 emissions were 30,236 million tonnes. By 2011 they had risen to 32,578 million tonnes. And last year they added about another 1000 million tonnes.
In short, since 2009, total global CO2 emissions have increased by around six times our total CO2 emissions. That is to say, by around 120 times what our 5 per cent cut would deliver; still 40 times what a 15 per cent cut would deliver.
– See more at: The Australian
The CCA are being pretty STUPID, loud-mouthing and bring themselves to attention of the Liberal Government.
One hopes they will shortly receive their just desserts. 🙂
I hope people are all emailing their local Liberal parliamentarian urging then to cease funding the pack of left wing political hacks that is the CCA
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As I noted in another post, I can’t wait to be falling over laughing when the financial backers of Flim-Flam’s CCA discover Gorebull Warbling all a fraud and want their money back.
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What I dread most, is they will be here in the USA when they realise they have no future in an Abbott government and Obama has no more authority.
I wish there were some insecticide to keep such pests away
80
ooo look, Olaf.
8 red thumbs between us, and not one negative comment.
I guess yellow ink is out of fashion. 🙂
20
Get rid of the CCA,ABC and SBS.We would save a few Billion easily.
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Here’s a start…
Climate Change Authority (Abolition) Bill 2013
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Well done Brett!
So the Abolition of the Climate Change Authority is on the list of things to do. If I recall correctly, the Authority was created by legislation and hence cannot be abolished until the legislation is repealed.
It is time,our politicians got back to work.
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Brett,
Why do I have the feeling this proposed bill is the one instigated by K Rudd before the last election??
00
It was released on 15th October. – Brief (Barton Deakin)
“The whole of the Climate Change Authority Act 2011 will be repealed as the body will have no function following the repeal of the tax.”
10
What is it about the adherents to the CAGW theory that they all turn out to be complete buffoons?
413
Calvin & Hobbs can answer that question.
130
Simple.
One needs to be a buffoon to religiously embrace CAGW given they clearly do not understand and as buffoons cannot understand the science that they have been erroneously told, by other buffoons, undergirds CAGW.
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More green thumbs needed 🙂
40
And if you get another red thumb, I’ll be very jealous.
20
Bruce
Maybe that’s a bit simplistic. Most warmists have redeeming qualities – it’s just that they are emotionally attached to their position (it could hardly be a logical attachment, could it?) and react like spoilt brats when challenged. We therefore see them at their worst.
My own theory is that their anger stems from an internal friction: loving their theory, but being logically aware that it is wrong. No surprise, then, that they don’t like it when people like us point it out to them.
Cheers
Speedy
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“Most warmists have redeeming qualities”
really ???
123
They used to me mildly entertaining, but that schtick has worn pretty thin.
20
They may actually be quite reasonable people….
once they are de-programmed. !
51
You have more chance of de-programming a car bomb martyr in Iraq.
70
Something about no women in the afterlife or something like that might work ????
.
.
.
.
Or maybe no funding !! 🙂
40
Andy
Goethe.
Of course, if we have to love our enemies, it doesn’t mean we have to like them!
Cheers,
Speedy
10
Who or what is this Climate Change Aurthority? Well now I know. It is a committee stacked with the usual suspects, David Karoly, Clive Hamilton and John Quiggan. The only other
Person I have heard of before is the chairman Bernie Fraser. What would he know?
What useful advice could these people possibly give to anyone?
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None.
50
Bernie Fraser and Elana Rubin may have a huge conflict of interest being on this authority. They are both directors of industry (union) super funds and some of these funds have invested in green projects such as desalination plants. Consequently, they – and the CCA – by pushing an AGW/MMCC barrow, are directly benefiting their funds (and their own reputation/compensation as directors).
80
Like ME Bank ‘Statement on Climate Change’
and the super funds getting good ratings in this report. The image of the Pasha Bulker on the cover is amusing.
They must be winning though, CommBank has lost 100 customers and ANZ lost dozens because of this.
20
This just has to stop!
A leading cause of death for folk of the future will be asphyxiation by uncontrolled laughter when they read about the religious orthodoxy of the ‘Climate Chage Authority’.
Save the future, now!
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Yes, think of the children!
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The leading cause of death is birth..
30
Amongst some populations, the leading cause of death is birth of zealots.
It is remarkable that all populations seem to be plagued with them.
40
Plagued by Psychopaths. 1 in a 100 of the population.
00
Why do I get he feeling that global warmers are some 10%.
Psychological amplification of irritation I imagine.
00
In a way, off topic but highly illustrative of the levels that the world of Science on which all the fantasists base their ideological beliefs, has sunk down to.
From the UK’s Bishop Hill blog.
Quote of the day, research edition
Nov 1, 2013
Education Quotes.
In the modern British university, it is not that funding is sought in order to carry out research, but that research projects are formulated in order to get funding. I am not joking when I say that a physics lecturer called Einstein, who just thought about the Universe would risk being sacked because he brought in no grants.
From a letter to the Times by Prof Sir Fergus Millar.
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You might detect the dabs of agent Deep Wollabra Wonga at work with Terry McCrann and the Climate Change Authority …
http://thepointman.wordpress.com/2013/10/25/the-climate-wars-and-agent-deep-woolabra-wonga/
Pointman
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I have a couple of charts at my blog showing carbon dioxide emissions through 2012 – putting Chinese emissions on scale – and showing how small our effort is. I am surprised charts like that seldom make it to the pages of the MSM.
Chinese emissions have doubled in the last ten years – and the rate of increase is unchecked.
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Warwick
And the impact on the climate has been how much, exactly?
Hmmmm….
Cheers,
Speedy
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Warwick
O/T but your website has returned a “Trojan Horse” message from my virus defence for some months now. Supposedly JS.Hide-me or some such
May be my virus defence returns a false positive,maybe it’s real. Can you shed light here, please ?
10
Historian Robert Conquest has a name for what the CCA is doing beyond spending vast amounts of money and consolidating control over an economy and society–brain blindfolds. A way of framing perceptions and experiences that escape current reality but guide future behavior.
You truly have to dive into the social change lit, especially via education, to recognize how completely the current “values and loyalties of one’s cultural or psychosocial surround” have to be disrupted so we will all begin to accept the need for wholesale, state-administered change.
And that’s who controls the UN entities and the OECD and every politician seems to know if they push hard on these transformational changes there is a tax-free sinecure with benefits and a travel package available if their policies drive them from office. Or after retirement at taxpayer expense caused after promotions for pushing these transformational policies.
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what is he talking about?
1 Nov: The Conversation: David Holmes: Ten days: how we imagine climate change
(Disclosure Statement: David Holmes receives funding from Monash University Faculty of Arts for research into climate change communication. Monash University provides funding as a Founding Partner of The Conversation.)
But communicating the urgency of climate change has proved problematic, for two reasons. First, the very existence of climate change has been regressively reconstructed as a pseudo “debate” in much of our mainstream media, and secondly, those who live in cities are so sheltered from its reality.
Second, imagining climate change is so difficult for those who live in cities. We are disconnected from experiencing it by our built and virtual environments. Our cars, our homes, climate control, the private comforts that we take for granted, allow us to bunker-in and not have to worry about what even the weather is doing, let alone climate…
Unless you are a gardener, instantaneous time makes it so much harder for city people to imagine climate change, unlike people who live on the land, or by the oceans, or are from cultures with strong memories of the past…
But for people, urban and rural, more imperceptible is a paradox that is at the core of dangerous climate change.
It is that, at any given moment, the magnitude of climate change is greatly under-estimated. This is because of the industrial emissions of aerosol particles – a human-made “albedo” which reflects solar radiation away from the earth…
Because current carbon policies are ignoring aerosols and the effect they have, targets may be dangerously ineffective. Much more urgent and radical targets are needed to avoid dangerous climate change, as even radical targets will still require a period of quite harsh adaptation as the planet sweats out the effects of unmasked CO2 already “in the pipeline”…
http://theconversation.com/ten-days-how-we-imagine-climate-change-18517
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Compelling
Research in
Australia
Proves climate change is worse than we think.
It is only necessary to read the first letter of the first 4 lines.
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2 Nov: SMH: Reuters: Obama orders US communities to prepare for climate change
Friday’s executive order set up a panel of governors, mayors, county officials and tribal leaders to advise the White House on how the federal government can respond to communities hit by the effects of a changing climate…
More than two dozen agencies will form a council on climate preparedness…
Eight Democratic but no Republican governors are on the bipartisan panel, even though some of the states hardest hit by extreme weather conditions, including New Jersey, Florida, Arizona, New Mexico and Texas, are governed by Republicans…
http://www.smh.com.au/environment/climate-change/obama-orders-us-communities-to-prepare-for-climate-change-20131102-2wssy.html
i thought “tribal leaders” must have meant Repubs/Dems, but guess it’s Indian Tribal Leaders. “Resilience” gets a look-in too:
President Obama’s State, Local, and Tribal Leaders Task Force on Climate Preparedness
To learn more about President Obama’s State, Local, and Tribal Leaders Task Force on Climate Preparedness and Resilience, click here.
http://www.whitehouse.gov/blog/2013/11/01/president-obama-s-state-local-and-tribal-leaders-task-force-climate-preparedness-0
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Don’t you just love how this climate preparedness group selected for this task force can actually be labelled bipartisan.
There are 8 State Governors, all from the Democrat Party.
There are 16 Local Officials, 14 from the Democrat Party and 2 Independents, with Democrat leanings.
There are two Tribal Officials.
Not a Republican in sight.
Tony.
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Socialist Democrats & Democrat Greens.
50
Bolta has a new post regarding the unfortunate Prince of Wales who obviously lacks even a smidgen of logic.
“So let’s sum up. There’s been no statistically significant warming for 15 years. No one is sure whether more warming will bring more rain or less to the Middle East. There is little evidence that warming of world over the last century has brought more droughts, although Syria has had less rain lately. The drought in the Middle East ended two years ago, and Israel survived it with no great trouble. Syria is much more vulnerable to drought with so many more poor farmers and livestock. Syria has had worse droughts before. And then come the Islamists…
Conclusion? Prince Charles is an idiot:
The Prince of Wales used his keynote speech at the 9th World Islamic Economic Forum in London this evening to warn of the political and economic dangers of climate change, and used Syria as a “terrifyingly graphic” example of the adverse effects of climate change on vulnerable populations…
“The tragic conflict in Syria provides a terrifyingly graphic example, where a severe drought for the last seven years has decimated Syria’s rural economy. Driving many farmers off their fields and into cities where, already, food was in short supply…”
(Thanks to reader Ian of Brisbane.)”
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Yes he could well be, as would be his enviro-associates and in particular the WWF of which he is the UK President.
The delusional and dangerous WWF possess a hallucinatory ‘vision’ for “Renewable energy and low-carbon transport”
Their vision is for “a 100% renewable future by 2050. We’re working toward an efficient energy system focused on clean renewable energy sources like wind, wave and solar power.”
If you wish, you can calculate your ‘foot print’ and adopt a polar bear using this link.
Why is this important you may ask? Because, as they tell us, we are ‘5 minutes from midnight’, quoting Rajendra Pachauri, speaking recently in Delhi, the head of the UN’s Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change (IPCC) who said that the world was running out of time to tackle the threat of uncontrolled climate change, saying “we have five minutes before midnight.”
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“Because, as they tell us, we are ’5 minutes from midnight’”
And waiting for the AGW to crumble completely… so the new day can dawn.
We DO NOT want to go back to the DARK AGES !!
Well …. I don’t… but perhaps these catastrophists do ??????
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Andy, they want everybody else to go back to the dark ages. As part of the knowledgeable elite, they will need special privileges to be able to complete their mission, like 24/7 energy, animal protein,clean drinking water, pharmaceuticals …….. all of which will be surplus to the requirements of the masses.
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I have to say that I laughed out loud when I saw you had collected not one, but two thumbs down AndyG55 and I had yet to score one at the time of writing this. Perhaps it was because I omitted the /sarc tag. Doesn’t take too much to confuse ’em does it?
12
I have my anony mouse followers. 🙂
11
Some fellow at the Greater Geraldton City Council was conducting an exercise to compare their “footprint” with others councils throughout the world just recently.
40
Did they adopt a polar bear too?
41
I’m an ex-pommie, but if Charles ever becomes king,
I’ll be joining the movement for Australia to become a republic. !!
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Andy,
I’m reminded of an ABC broadcast from back in BC when they did “My Word”.
The theme was “Charlie is my darling” with the caveat that
For Lady Diana Spenser “My Darling is a Charlie”
31
Yes, he’s certainly a strong point for the republicans isn’t he?
21
1 Nov: SMH: Peter Hannam: Climate change: scientists attack David Murray for ‘serious slur’
Mr Murray, a former head of the Commonwealth Bank and inaugural chair of the Future Fund, told ABC’s Lateline programme on Wednesday that “the climate problem is overstated” and that “there needs to be some consensus” about the science…
“I often look at systems and behaviours as a way of judging something, and in this case, to watch the accusations that fly between these people suggests there’s been a breakdown in integrity in the science,” Mr Murray said.
The Australian Meteorological and Oceanographic Society said it is “disturbed by Mr Murray’s remarks”.
“The IPCC reports are an outstanding example of international science co-operation, rigour and transparency,” said Blair Trewin, the society’s president. “They are subjected to multiple levels of review by experts both inside and outside the climate community.”
“The society regards the remarks of Mr Murray as being a serious slur on the integrity of the many Australian and international authors of the IPCC report, and views them as highly offensive to those authors and to the profession at large,” he said…
http://www.smh.com.au/environment/climate-change/climate-change-scientists-attack-david-murray-for-serious-slur-20131101-2wqcc.html
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This person has obviously not read the IPCC reports, nor (shudder!), Donna Laframboise.
180
Transparency?
Why then, does Dr. Mann continue to fight expensive legal battles to hide his publicly funded emails at the University of Virginia, one might ask.…
http://wattsupwiththat.com/2011/09/16/mann-fighting-release-of-uva-emails-on-hockey-stick/
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18 Oct: MotherJones: Chris Mooney: How Do You Get People to Give a Damn About Climate Change?
Experts have come a long way in figuring out which messages can successfully open minds and move public opinion. There’s just one problem: They disagree about whether the message everyone’s using actually works
As two top researchers studying the science of science communication—a hot new field that combines public opinion research with psychological studies—Dan Kahan and Stephan Lewandowsky tend to agree about most things…
In this episode of Inquiring Minds (click above to stream audio), Kahan and Lewandowsky debate this pressing issue. The discussion begins with a paper published in Nature Climate Change last year by Lewandowsky and two colleagues, providing experimental evidence suggesting a consensus message ought to work quite well.
“We told people that 97 out of 100 climate scientists agree on the basic premise that the globe is warming due to greenhouse gas emissions,” explains Lewandowsky, who is based at the University of Bristol in the United Kingdom. “And what we found was that that boosted people’s acceptance of the scientific facts relating to climate change by a significant amount, and it did so in particular for people of a free-market worldview or ideology.” (The 97 percent figure comes from a recent study surveying the scientific literature on climate change.)
But Kahan, a Yale law professor who has extensively researched how our ideological predispositions skew our acceptance of facts, isn’t so sure. It’s not that he doubts Lewandowsky’s basic finding. But, he says, “when people get that kind of message in the world, there are all kinds of other influences that are filtering, essentially, the credibility of that message. If that would work, I would have expected it to work by now.”…
After all, who wants to fly in the face of what 97 percent of experts have to say?
“We know from my studies that if you can only tell people about the consensus, that it does make a huge difference to their belief,” Lewandowsky says…
http://www.motherjones.com/environment/2013/10/inquiring-minds-kahan-lewandowsky-communicate-climate
02
How about Marchall & Warren in 1992, re peptic and gastric ulcers diagnosis and treatment, for starters? They only got a Nobel for their pains, ultimately!
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Get with the program. It’s now “99 out of 100.” Scientists.
http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/jamesdelingpole/100243981/dances-with-smurfs-goes-super-serial-or-how-james-cameron-plans-to-make-the-worst-series-in-the-history-of-tv/
When they get to 101% my sceptisicm will dissolve into total acceptance.
50
They picked the right person. James Cameron does pretty good FANTASY movies.
So at least he wouldn’t have to change genre.
40
Yes, such as in the movie “Prometheus”, where it was reckoned that just 3% of the atmospheric CO2 would kill you within 2 minutes without a suit. Note that we exhale 4% – meaning we’re dead just breathing. Obvious that James Cameron had some influence. From Wiki Prometheus (2012 film):
30
I doubt he will even change the story line.
10
Andy
James Cameron. Please don’t swear at me! He not only inflicted that bubblegum version of “A Night to Remember”, on us, but he also fuelled Leo de Caprio’s enormous and unjustified ego!
Jimmy boy has a price to pay.
Cheers,
Speedy.
00
Are they still calling AGW a science? I thought it was already so thoroughly discredited it’s officially a hoax not much unlike the flat earth theory. Why are so many scientists still reluctant to speak out about this on a consistent basis? Are they that greedy for grants and to retain their jobs? Doesn’t auger well with the status of science today. As far as I’m concerned, the reputation of science has suffered too much and must be recovered. It will only happen if the vast majority of scientists speak out against this AGW nonsense. I don’t see it happening though. Sure there are isolated ones like Bob Carter and Richard Lindzen who are excellent but they are often drowned out by the loud mouthed pro-AGW scientists and much of the media. Shame on the vast majority of scientists.
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Yes Peter.. all of the above. It’s the gravy train that keeps it going. It may last as long as the 40 year Piltdown Man hoax, but the truth will win in the end.
40
Hmmm… “Are they still calling AGW a science?”
They will claim it is a science until they die. Like the medical doctors claim their approval of statin drugs for heart disease is scientific. Hell hath no fury than a professional marketer, er scientist whose authority is challenged. The West Australian newspaper stated there was speculation that the ABC has left itself open to litigation for reporting the emperor has no clothes in the statin affair. Then they moved in to reporting the name calling of those who challenge the current financial arrangements. The parallels between the two debates of AGW and statin use in heart disease are huge, as Jo pointed out last week. It was the statin (and other drug) marketing lies which lead to my leaving the medical research area as I could no longer trust my colleagues integrity so could no longer continue working with them.
“Shame on the vast majority of scientists.”
I know why the vast majority of scientists continue to keep their mouths shut and go with the marketers. They still have to pay the mortgage, utilities and food expenses. Changing careers is very expensive and one’s standing in society is all tied up in it. Not to mention the horrendous psychic cost of realising that the decades of work with previously trusted colleagues has been wrong. As my professor said to me, and I quote, “I just cannot cope with the idea that I have been wrong for decades in what I have been teaching the students. Therefore you must be wrong.”
210
Retired now, the other drug was probably Plavix. When I had my heart attack back in 2008 I was told by my cardiologist I would need to be on Plavix ( it’s a blood thinner) for the rest of my life! I started to investigate the drug and soon found that the FDA in the US recommended 1 year on the drug and I read reports by other cardiologists who even thought 4 months was enough because you were in danger because your blood was so thin that were you in an accident you’d die of blood loss before the ambulance got to you. After 2 years I took myself off it as the side effects were horrendous anyway.
A year later a I had another, milder, attack and ended up in the local Base hospital again. When I told them I’d gone off Plavix I was reprimanded severely as that had caused my second attack and was told I had to be on it for the rest of my life .
I then ended up in the Cardiac ward of another major hospital at Southport (my local base couldn’t do angiograms) where all the cardiologists were Indians. I had another angiogram and the next day I was visited by the Indian doctor who performed the operation. He told me he had put in another stent and I would need to be on Plavix for ONE year. When I questioned him he said one year was sufficient. I told him that I was told that the reason I had had the second attack was because I’d gone off Plavix. No he replied, the reason I had the second attack was because the first stent put in in 2008 wasn’t long enough and had to be lengthened and that my going off Plavix was the correct procedure.
Here we have a group of Australian cardiologists at my Base hospital following the instructions of the drug company – on it for life! Even my newly graduated doctor daughter believed I had to be on it for the rest of my life as that’s what she had been taught.
Catalyst could well do another report on the Plavix/Warfarin line of drugs.
100
Not unusual at all Janama. Medical teachings are the rule until more evidence is found and doctors are updated. Slavish adherence to outdated and even visibly incorrect procedures kills millions worldwide every year. I can’t fathom how so many medical practitioners train for so many years and continue to be over 50% inept and kill their patients (Patel anyone?).
Take your modern, electrically misbehaving car to any number of mechanics and you’ll end up with almost as many gremlins “found” to be the cause.
The problem I find with most people is that their cause-and-effect chip has very little data besides ignorance to work with. It’s no wonder we’re stuck where we are.
31
Jamama
It could well be that you’d be on Plavix for the rest of your life. Right up to the time it killed you.
That’s the trouble when qualifications take precendence over evidence. Climate science, for example….
Cheers,
Speedy
20
“Terry McCrann – Fantasists try to scare us with cultural cringe”
ummm…….. The Fantasists ARE a cultural cringe !!!!!
143
Seriously..
This is what we need to somehow achieve..
We need to make it UNFASHIONABLE to be a CAGW cultist. !!
As soon as we do that… GAME OVER !!
52
Its already happening in my neck of the woods Andy.
The rabid climate alarmists are keeping an increasingly low profile in rural Australia all over I suspect.
They are starting to realise they are disliked, disbelieved and are even feel a tinge of the heat of hate being directed towards them and they don’t handle it very well at all.
Even though they are adept at dishing it out in the past when the roles were reversed.
To many people have suffered to much from the greens, the rabid alarmists and their running dogs as the communists use to say, in the media, the bureaucracy and the political establishment and the carpet baggers of the renewable energy scam.
And the national ABC news and commentary sections but not the local and regional programs on the ABC network, are becoming poisonous as well and again i suspect are starting to lose long term listeners and viewers faster than they realise.
The Great Wheel of Time and History that shapes the affairs of men and always has, just keeps right on rolling and the other side will come up again as it always has and which it is starting to do in spades right now.
Just cast your eye over the incredible number of new and previously unseen and unremarked papers emerging from the shadows of climate science claiming., suggesting, hypothesizing, predicting, analysing and all the rest of science that non corrupted science supposedly does, the role of that great fusion reactor in the sky, the Sun plays in our global climate.
As society we are already on the way out of the deadly grasp of the rabid and deadly for many, greedy grasping zealotry of the catastrophic climate change nosferatu’s.
131
And if your curiosity is piqued ;” Nosferatu’s” in this context = Purveyors of horror
Nosferatu: Origin and Definitions
21
But how can we make it unfashionable with the soy latte set ????
Just keep poking fun and laughing at them for their stupidity ?
81
Keep poking – vigorously.
Armchair coffee culture activism has a short half-life. Another “did ya know…did ya hear…no really?” activist meme will likely develop, permitting the diarrhorea of tittle-tattle to continue whilst sipping outrageously expensive lattes.
Suggest they could do their bit to reduce their carbon footprint by putting their money where their mouth is.
Stop the coffee, donate the money and shut up.
50
AndyG55,
They’re already unfashionable now, think of the images of the following:
1. Tim Flannery
2. Christine Milne
3. John Brookes
4. MattyB
5. Michael the Unreal
6. Will Steffen
There’s thousands more of these stupid looking Greedy Grubs with stuff stuck all over their snouts after feeding on the public teat.
The new young generation is treating them with contempt, and their base is eroding fast, with only future ABC employees actually worshiping them.
The GANGGREEN is a welcome as a fart in a space suit in the upcoming generations mind. Either hated, laughed at or ignored.
41
Say, I know this is off topic, but this is really impressive. (Do I really need to add the /sarc here)
I’m running up something on Concentrating Solar Power and I came across this, dated three weeks back.
You’ll probably be hearing news about that much vaunted Gemasolar Plant in Spain, you know, that Concentrating Solar (Solar Thermal) Plant that can actually supply its power for a full 24 hour period, because it has heat diversion.
Well, in the Northern Summer just finished, this wonderful plant actually supplied power for the full 24 hours for 36 consecutive days, and believe me that is huge news.
Now that’s the headline news you will hear, so let me add some perspective for you.
This plant has a Nameplate Capacity of 19.9MW, so here you have a plant covering 520 acres with mirrors to generate a tiny (and that’s being generous) 20MW.
This plant still only supplies 110GWH of power over a full year giving it a Capacity Factor of only 63%.
So then 36 consecutive days at full rated power for the full 24 hours.
Bayswater delivered that same amount of power in 6.5 hours.
Bayswater delivers the yearly total from this plant in 41 hours.
Spain’s Gemasolar costs around $500 Million, so just to replace the Nameplate Capacity of Bayswater, you would need 133 of these plants at a cost of $66.5 BILLION, and still get less power delivered to the grids than what Bayswater delivers.
36 consecutive days of 24 hour power delivery.
Who cares.
It’s 20MW.
20MW!
Don’t allow the greens to snow you with gloating. Shoot them to shreds with the truth.
Tony.
352
“36 consecutive days of 24 hour power delivery.”
ie no clouds !
Have the cultists declared an ‘unprecedented drought’ in Spain yet?
Or is this solar plant in the highlands?
72
I repeat.. “Or is this solar plant in the highlands?”
Oh, forget it. 🙁
11
Thank you Tony, again.
41
Tony the same company has new units in Algeria with a higher output, 150 MW, the mirrors only contribute 20MW and there is no mention of molten salt, it runs on gas for the rest of the time.
Algeria Plant
Are you sure this unit ran the full 24 hours on molten salt as they only claim 6 hours storage tops on their website.
Abengoa Solar
I read that they have to use gas to heat the salt to molten state else they’d have to wait till 1pm before the salt would flow freely using the mirrors giving them only a few hours of direct solar output.
20
janama,
you have your Plants crossed here.
Gemasolar is a plant owned by Torresol, and not by Abengoa.
Gemasolar has 15 hours of storage, and even with that, and with news that it supplied 24 hour power for 36 consecutive days, that 63% CF equates to an average daily operation of just on that 15 hours average, so there must be days when even with that storage it can barely manage a few hours either side of Midday.
Here’s the link to Gemasolar
And yes, you are correct. As with virtually every one of these types of plants the units use Natural Gas for startup until the compound is molten enough to boil water to steam to drive the turbine which drives the generator.
While information was once quite readily available for every coal fired power plant, and now not so, information about these Solar Plants is specifically written with as little real information as possible, as they really can’t write the real truth at their sites, because if they did, people would see them for the joke that they really are, so any information is couched in terms to make them look quite good, and chasing down the truth of the matter is no easy task.
Now while coal fired plants can now drive single generators of 1300MW, as can existing Nuclear power plants, CSP technology has now reached the stage where they can drive 50MW generators, and they may even be able to drive 125MW generators within the next two to 3 years, so where you see CS plants generating up to 250MW, be aware that they are running 5 X 50MW units.
Now, here’s where this Gemasolar Plant is being really tricky, and how they claim to be able to generate 24 hours of power for 36 consecutive days. If they had to run the normal 50MW generator they would NEVER make a full 24 hours.
It concerns the actual weight that has to be driven, and as you might guess, the rotor (the part of the generator that has to be turned at 50 to 60 times a second) is a hell of a lot lighter in a 20MW generator than a 50MW generator, so the driving force needed is a lot less, if you can see that.
I explain that in an old Post of mine at the following link.
The Major Physical Impossibility Of Solar Thermal Power
So, where you see this Gemasolar plant proudly claiming it can do what it does, it can only do this by driving a very small generator, 20MW virtually nothing in the sense of real scale electrical power at all.
Tony.
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Ignore the Green extremists and global warming alarmists, Australian bushfires result from warm weather coupled to a couple of centuries of mismanagement or no management of the Bush which was once parkland managed with fire by Australian Aborigines: http://www.bookdepository.com/Biggest-Estate-on-Earth-Bill-Gammage/9781743311325?redirected=true&gclid=CN_8jZm6xboCFQIVpQod8SQAvA
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You need to get out more, DT.
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Mate I am out and around, right now in Gippsland Victoria staying with Snowy Mountains cattle people, out in western NSW a few months ago on a sheep and wheat property, I had no idea about how well Australia had been managed by our indigenous neighbours’ancestors and how badly since. Next week I will be in Tasmania again. Get out more?
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I must add that Aborigine land management spanning 40-60,000 years, applied again today, would add to economic prosperity (see northern WA land management now underway) via increased farm production, reduced bushfire impact, employment prospects, lower insurance premiums and then environmental considerations. Don’t stick you head in the sand, research and learn.
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So, a Pommy tourist then?
Make your way up to SE Queensland sometime, and I’ll take you out and show you the end result of indigenous “management” of the Australian bushland.
Better yet, simply google for any of the recent charcoal sediment studies done here in OZ.
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Lived there from 2001 to 2009 MV
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You mean by reading politically correct fantasy stories like Gammage’s factually incorrect and much discredited quaint “Noble Savage” myth?
I’m in my sixties.
I grew up in Kalgoorlie in the 50’s, with Aboriginals.
I’ve worked mostly in the outback all my life, since I was a young man, until three years ago.
Do you know why there is no oral tradition amongst Aboriginals of how they “managed” and “cultivated” the bush with fire?
Because they didn’t.
It’s a White Man politically correct “Noble Savage” construct, designed to sell books and garner research grants, and make a name for some otherwise totally obscure “scientists”.
A lot like “Climate Change”, really.
.
If you want to admire, no, even stand in awe of true Aboriginal culture, let me know, and we’ll travel together to the Pilbara, and I’ll introduce you to some old Aboriginals who can still Sing the Songlines of their Clan’s Lands.
THEN maybe you will understand.
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Backing you there MV. I don’t subscribe to Aboriginal “stewardship of the land” either. They simply lit up the scrub and caught the escaping food out the other end, then walked through and picked up the ready cooked TV dinners. They’ve never farmed anything in some 40ky.
The technological height of their engineering was the humpy – and even their ancestors they left behind in New Guinea build proper huts.
Anything else is pure political correctness. I don’t believe they even invented the “woomera”, considering other tribes, even in France, used this idea – called the Atlatl:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spear_thrower
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Additionally, I have seen writings of Captain Cook as he sails up the East coast of Astralia, describing Aboriginals as “children of Prometheus” or similar, as he watches countless bushfires burn. I can’t find the link where I saw it tho..
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Memoryvault said:
If that sort of cheap ad hominem goes down well here, then I’m in the wrong blog. From the thumbs down, it appears it doesn’t. I suggest to Jo that a ‘Cringe’ button would also be useful.
You know, I have often noted and remarked how little Australians do get around their own country. They live on or near the coast and where do the take their holidays? On the coast! More than once I have heard it said that Australians are close to the bush. It’s a myth; they’re close to the beach.
However, in some agreement with you, I am not at all certain that this ‘management’ was for fire hazard reduction, as seems to be implied by DT.
Link:
Could it not easily be that the bush was burned for hunting purposes and the trees that have survived and propagated are ones suited to regular fires? Couldn’t the bush therefore have adjusted to the human inhabitants? Isn’t it quite likely that the fires lit by aboriginals had no no more to do with environmental protection than do the fires lit by sugarcane growers? That is not to criticise either.
I don’t think it’s productive to replace one manifestation of political correctness with another.
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Hammer, nail, head, Sean.
Yes, you are right, Sean. I was a little rough with DT. But the “Noble Savage” myth perpetrated by the inner suburban latte set has done more to damage and impede Aboriginal advancement than alcohol and petrol-sniffing combined.
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My ten year old granddaughter is in grade 4 at school. Currently she is learning about the Great Indigenous Civilisation that prospered here before the invasion of the white man, who destroyed it.
This Great Civilisation spanned the continent. All inhabitants spoke the one language (Aboriginal), peace and harmony reigned, and there was no war. Clans (families) would regularly traverse from one side to the other to trade their artifacts, wares, and knowledge.
Most of the continent, apart from the very Red Centre, was a Garden of Eden, managed, cultivated, cultured, nurtured and tended by this Noble Race (singular), and everything, plant, animal, and people, lived in sustainable harmony. There were no uncontrolled bushfires, because of the managed and controlled burning. There were no damaging floods, because these wise shepherds did not fell trees or allow livestock to damage the riverbanks.
.
Yes, that really is what we are teaching ten year olds in public schools today.
The really scary part is the teachers actually believe it.
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They were extraordinarily able bushmen. They were not planners, organizers, builders or explorers. They would not have even known about the continent we call Australia. Their counting system went, “One, two, few and many.” Some accounts leave out, “few”.
With the teachers the way they are these days, it’s a mystery how the students are able to learn anything at all.
They were probably taught the same PC drivel. It’s not only the teachers that are scary. Winning government hasn’t given the Coalition the bigger voice. Still spruiking for the Labor/Greens are the ABC empire, the free-to-air TV stations, Fairfax, the unions, the Universities and as you have alluded, the public school classrooms. The election might be over but there is still such a long way to go. Are we starting to win against PC? I don’t know.
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Those “Noble Savages” must have disappeared long before the Brits discovered this land which in a short few hundred years was to become a world leading nation in terms of law, culture and the high average personal health and wealth of its citizens.
AFL? Now that’s a different story. Their progenitors may have developed those baulking skills running from bush fires… they lit.
As far as the curriculum goes I’d swap the incoming culture for the poverty of the nature worship culture it replaced any old day.
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Winning government
hasn’tHAS given the Coalition the bigger voice, unfortunately they don’t have the balls to use it.There, fixed it for you, Sean.
It’s not the size of the voice that’s the problem, Sean, it’s the size of the gonads.
Unfortunately, the current “government” are eunuchs, more befitting the Vienna Boy’s Choir a century ago than an alleged “conservative” government today.
They are not going to change anything of note**, and assuming the current parliament runs its full three years, I confidentally predict another 2010-style result in 2016.
.
** Except laying the groundwork to take your superannuation, which has already started.
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Memory Vault said:
OK, I’ll concede that they do have that small problem.
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Lightening – Electricity on a diet.
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DT – the book is only $14.95 as a kindle version from Amazon.
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Thank you Janama.
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MV you are stuck in the past, of course fire was the main tool of management, but there was more to it than burning: http://www.bookdepository.com/Biggest-Estate-on-Earth-Bill-Gammage/9781743311325?redirected=true&gclid=CN_8jZm6xboCFQIVpQod8SQAvA
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What I want to know (and nobody has been able to tell me yet) will the bush fires get worse when Tony Abbott rescinds the carbon (sic) tax?
These Leftie BS artists say that CO2 is causing them so that’s the only outcome – n’est pas!
Cheers,
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And how much of that was produced by humans? Average human breathes out 800 grams of CO2 daily. Therefore 7,000,000,000 humans will breath out 5,600,000 tons daily.
That becomes 2,045,400,000 tons per year. Call it over 2 billion tons a year.
Explains that increase quite neatly. 🙂
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Heh. Now count all the precious polar bears, wildebeests and other fauna globally – including insects. That piddling 2Bn tons a year grows staggeringly.
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OT. Forgive me if this has already been posted. It’s an excellent article by Nick Cater of The Australian on the press today.
Journalism giving up on the search for truth
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How come it keeps going up if every other country has stricter targets, China runs on windmills and the EU has a caaarbon proice since last century like the warmies in the govt kept telling us? Aren’t we meant to be worried about missing out on clean energy future that everyone else is enjoying?
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And all this huffing and puffing is to fix something that ain’t broke. When will they ever learn?
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OT – Bjorn Lomberg’s out:
“This does not imply that global warming is not a long-run problem. Moreover, cost-effective solutions are still warranted for the adverse effects by the year 2100 and beyond.”
source
Why does he have to print these disclaimers in every article he writes for The Australian?
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Meanwhile back in Godzone the Green zombies continue their chicken-licken act. THE SKY IS FALLING!
http://www.nbr.co.nz/article/kennedy-graham-response-to-rodney-hide
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Well, they gotta keep the tofu-train rolling — using wind and solar power, of course. Without a climate crisis, where would the Greens get their money from?
I tried to convince them that they should be lobbying for the production of hemp as a sustainable resource (not the one or two hallosogenic varieties, but varieties suitable for producing clothing fibre). It will grow very well under wind turbines, and is considerably more useful than gorse.
They ran a mile. It is the only time I have ever seen a green take any exercise.
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What happened to weekend unthreaded?
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So now they are telling us that World food production will decline by 2% per decade due to Co2…..
Never mind the empirical evidence to the contrary, just make it up as you go to scare the pants off everybody………..
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I really have trouble getting my mind around the arrogance and the total utter ignorance of those who make those utterly spurious claims.
Or alternatively if they know the real facts they are lying and are deliberately perpetuating that criminal lie by claiming the increase in CO2 and very mild increase in global temperatures has and will reduce world food production and therefore are using their claims in a fraudulent and near criminal way to try and implement their ideology and programs of control of the populace..
I’ve been through all this “global warming and increasing CO2 will mean falling food production” crap before in other threads both here on our hostesses site and other blog sites and forums.
Biologists estimate that round 20% of the increase in global crop yields over the last 25 years is due to the increase in atmospheric CO2.
30 or more years ago, the furtherst north grain crops were grown were in the Canadian Peace River region in north western Alberta at around a latitude 56 degrees 14 minutes north.
Today limited crops are being grown north of the 60th latitude in the Canadian Yukon or some 350 kms further north than Peace River.
To quote from the Yukon Agricultural Association.
Or refer to an article by David Archibald posted on WUWT on the probable effects of cooling global temperatures on North American and by implication northern food production regions around the world of a global cooling phase ; Potential Agricultural Impact of the Eddy Minimum
Biologists are now quite certain that the world is greening ; ie it’s biomass production is increasing and it is all put down by biologists to increasing CO2 and warmer temperatures.
World food production has kept pace with world population increase despite the entirely false claims by numerous so called experts in the 1970’s that by the early 1980’s famine would stalk mankind nearly every year.
It is due to the skills and dedication of the ignored and badly under rated, few in number plant breeders of mankind’s food crops assisted by increased CO2 and warmer temperatures in the colder marginal cropping areas of the world, all of which have steadily increased yields of mankind’s food crops so that huger does not need to be the situation any human being faces,
One good , dedicated plant breeder and I know some of these plant breeders, is worth to mankind and our future, the equivalent of some hundreds of quite useless climate scientists whose total contribution to humanity’s well being is fear, the pauperizing of millions who can no longer afford energy costs, the now increasingly recognised increases in mental health problems brought on by the fear of the future so promoted by climate scientists and their adherents,ie; their “golems” , the destruction of societal harmony and agreement, the rapidly accelerating destruction of science and the consequent rapid increase in the loss of respect and the growing contempt amongst the public for science and scientists of all disciplines and much more .
These are the legacies of climate science and it’s practitioners or chicken entrail prophets.
These are the legacies of a science that has failed humanity and a science that as we see in our hostesses headline, is totally abrogating it’s role in society and it’s responsibility to society by deliberately promoting totally false scenarios which even science itself has shown are nothing more than falsehoods operating under the now diminishing levels of respect that the public has for science.
Even one of the bastions of the global warming faith, the UK’s Royal Society has this to say about global food production in a world of increasing CO and warmer temperatures
In a word they are lying and they are liers, pure and simple when they claim food production will fall in a warming world of increasing CO2.
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Adendum Ref; The Royal Society
Possible changes to arable crop yields by 2050
The CO2 comments from the Royal Society are science as I know it from Horsham’s FACE experiment.
The paper?
“2050 modelled prediction”???
Yeh! right! [ sarc/ ]
11
Ahhh.. So they plan even more BioFuel production !!
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MSM picks up new meme, but they don’t name or link to Donna Laframboise’s website:
2 Nov: WCPO Cincinnati: AP: Seth Borenstein: Leaked global warming report sees violent, sicker, poorer future
Starvation, poverty, flooding, heat waves, droughts, war and disease already lead to human tragedies. They’re likely to worsen as the world warms from man-made climate change, a leaked draft of an international scientific report forecasts.
The Nobel Peace Prize-winning Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change will issue a report next March on how global warming is already affecting the way people live and what will happen in the future, including a worldwide drop in income. A leaked copy of a draft of the summary of the report appeared online Friday on a climate skeptic’s website. Governments will spend the next few months making comments about the draft…
Pennsylvania State University climate scientist Michael Mann, who wasn’t part of the international study team, told the AP that the report’s summary confirms what researchers have known for a long time: “Climate change threatens our health, land, food and water security.”…
http://www.wcpo.com/news/science/leaked-global-warming-report-sees-violent-sicker-poorer-future
2 Nov: CTV: AP: Leaked climate report predicts more war, disease with global warming
http://www.ctvnews.ca/sci-tech/leaked-climate-report-predicts-more-war-disease-with-global-warming-1.1525469
Revkin does name & link:
2 Nov: NYT Dot Earth: Andrew C. Revkin: A Closer Look at Climate Panel’s Findings on Global Warming Impacts
Updated, 1:02 p.m. | Justin Gillis has provided a look at the forthcoming report on climate change impacts, vulnerability and adaptation options from the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change, based on a leaked final draft (dated Oct. 28) that was posted on the blog of Donna Laframboise, a longtime critic of the panel. (You can also download it here.)…
[Insert, 12:53 p.m. | On his Bishop Hill blog, Andrew Montford has drawn attention to an important footnote in the report:
“Attribution of observed impacts in the WGII AR5 links responses of natural and human systems to climate change, not to anthropogenic climate change, unless explicitly indicated.”
In discussions of impacts in the leaked draft, the distinction between human, or anthropogenic, and “natural” climate change is only rarely made. To my eye, this greatly limits the significance of many findings given that the big questions for society still center on how quickly to curb greenhouse gas emissions…
http://dotearth.blogs.nytimes.com/2013/11/02/a-closer-look-at-climate-panels-findings-on-global-warming-impacts/?_r=0
Charlie gets the meme, ignores western support for AQ in Syria:
29 Oct: Prince Charles warns of climate change at Islamic forum
The Prince of Wales used his keynote speech at the 9th World Islamic Economic Forum in London this evening to warn of the political and economic dangers of climate change, and used Syria as a “terrifyingly graphic” example of the adverse effects of climate change on vulnerable populations…
“The tragic conflict in Syria provides a terrifyingly graphic example, where a severe drought for the last seven years has decimated Syria’s rural economy. Driving many farmers off their fields and into cities where, already, food was in short supply.
“This depletion of natural capital, inexplicably, little reported in the media, was a significant contributor to the social tension that exploded with such desperate results.”…
http://www.itv.com/news/update/2013-10-29/charles-warns-of-climate-change-at-islamic-forum/
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SMH/Anne wouldn’t dream of of headlining this “Coast protection costs could rise if sea levels rise”!
3 Nov: SMH: Anne Davies: Coast protection costs rise with sea levels
(REALITY)But despite the threat to low-lying areas, housing densities are increasing in high-risk areas. New developments are being constructed in areas that depend on sea walls around Manly lagoon, at Rushcutters Bay, Double Bay and along the Parramatta River.
(IF, IF, IF)If the 82-centimetre rise in the sea level predicted by the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change is realised by 2100, coastal developments the length of the NSW coast will be at risk…
The threat comes not just from seawater advancing onto land. Sydney Coastal Councils executive director Geoff Withycombe said higher sea levels are likely to raise the water table and alter the flow of stormwater into the harbour…
http://www.smh.com.au/environment/coast-protection-costs-rise-with-sea-levels-20131102-2wtew.html
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Something on Bolta’s blog caught my eye the other day.
It was an ALPBC interview with a Wendy Bacon.
The ALPBC thought she would be woderful to talk to since she is the author of this drivel and this propaganda.
Fundamentally, Wendy has concluded that since it is obvious that so many scientists cannot possibly be wrong, it is indeed heresy that the Australian MSM have the nerve to print the contrary argument.
So I sent Wendy an email and inquired as to her source for this very precise figure of 97.4%.
She responded that she couldn’t recall, but it would be listed in her references.
Sure enough, she got it from (Doran, P.T., & Zimmerman, M.K., 2009). In her 202 pages she uses it over and over again, except sometimes it is 97.2% and sometimes just 97%.
I pointed out that this is a bogus paper, and rather than the result of a survey of 3000 people it was in fact 77 rusted on activists.
I sent her these URL’s.
Apparently, to disagree with a distinguished professor of journalism is ABUSE as defined by Wendy.
In her paper, I was quite alarmed to discover the following “facts”.
“In 2013 the political debate continues, while climate scientists warn that time is running out to act on global warming. The Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change has just published its fifth report. Scientists have found with 95% confidence that human greenhouse gas emissions are causing global warming. Evidence grows of the damaging impacts of climate change, including melting ice, sea level rise and extreme weather events. (IPCC, 2013). Australia itself is threatened by more extreme hot weather and bushfires, an accelerating loss of species and flooding of coastal communities. Small neighbouring countries in the Pacific such as Kiribati are threatened with inundation and lack of fresh water.”
In her bibliography she lists virtually every extremist known to the topic, including Cook. Lewandowski, Oreskes, Mann etc.
I think that Wendy would appreciate an <a href="Wendy Bacon “>email from each of the crew here pointing out that in fact her 202 page “work” which undoubtedly cost each and every tax payer a bundle, is nothing but propaganda. And that as the folks paying for it we have every right to an opinion.
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The link didn’t work with the email [email protected]
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Way off topic but is rapidly becoming the most carefully scrutinised and watched climate controlling factor in mankind’s history of science.
October 2013 Sunspots: Huge Jump!
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ROM:
note near the end; “Svalgaard is onto another fundamental error. It’s how sunspot counts have been recorded. He knows the so-called “Modern Maximum” isn’t real, but the result of counting errors. More on that another time”.
On the other hand see Tallbloke re Inconsistency of the Wolf sunspot number series around 1848
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Graeme No3
The price we are now paying for the whole global warming debacle.
The stripping and diversion of immense amounts of public wealth from the science that will really matters
All to chase a figment of science full of a wool pack of lies and deliberate misinformation.
Just to satisfy the needs of some, who like every member of the Homo sapiens species needs to find and believe in and to worship some higher being or a much greater and higher cause than us mere mortals can ever hope to fully understand.
And a being or greater cause in which we must both fear a little and place all our trust in.
For the godless, environmentalism with it’s global warming and climate change as the devil they must fear and with it’s Gaian and sciency priesthood and it’s liturgy of environmentally correct phraseology and it’s shrill condemnation of the heretics who have their own gods, filled for millions that basic human need and vulnerability very well indeed,
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You may have noted Australia should be warming up, eh?
http://www.weatherzone.com.au/news/chilly-november-nights-for-southern-nsw-and-act/25808
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What is really costing us serious money is the RET (Renewable Energy Target), it costs us even more than the $1,000 per family that the toxic carbon tax does. This needs to go asp.
10