JoNova

A science presenter, writer, speaker & former TV host; author of The Skeptic's Handbook (over 200,000 copies distributed & available in 15 languages).


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Tipping point in civilization: Experts say “listen to children” (sure, the adults are wrong)

Every day, grownups pay the bills, feed the world, and operate millions of heavy machines that move at deadly speeds. These same adults mostly don’t buy carbon credits, don’t vote Green, and don’t march in XR protests.

But evidently all those engineer-doctor-dentist-farmer humans are wrong:

It’s time to listen to the kids, Professor Steffen said.

“The bottom line is, we’re saying the schoolchildren have got it right — this is a climate emergency.”

The public broadcasting geniuses tell us we must listen to the experts, but the experts say we must listen to the kids.

Apparently the kids are invoking the unprovable endless tipping point. Anytime, anywhere, sorcerers can claim an event is just around the corner.

But the kids are right. The world is now dangerously close to tipping points that will set in motion unstoppable ecosystem collapses. This is a climate emergency.

That’s the message from scientists writing in Nature on Thursday, who say that for some systems, the window to act may have already closed.

As usual, Nick Kilvert writes good advertisements, but doesn’t ask a single semi-soft decent question like: “So Prof Steffen, do you have any empirical evidence that implicates CO2 directly in a cause and effect way? Is this just another prediction from climate models which overstated warming, got the Antarctic wrong, failed on the upper troposphere, and can’t predict droughts, floods, rain or wind trends and don’t include solar magnetic, solar winds, or solar spectral changes?”

A decade ago, it was widely thought that most tipping points wouldn’t be reached until around 5 degrees Celsius of warming, but now evidence is mounting that they’re more likely to happen at between 1C and 2C above pre-industrial levels, according to Will Steffen from ANU’s Climate Change Institute, one of the authors of the paper.

Currently we’re at a global average of about 1C degree of warming.

“The more we learn, the riskier it looks,” Professor Steffen said.

The more we run computer simulations the more we get exactly-the-same media headlines. The path may change but the tipping point is always “10 years ahead”.

Meanwhile some kids are setting fire to the nation, should we listen to them?

No idea or cliche is too inane for climate believer “scientists”.

New paradox: adult says “don’t listen to adults”.

h/t David B, george, Andrew McRae, Original Steve, bemused.

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Tipping point in civilization: Experts say "listen to children" (sure, the adults are wrong), 9.6 out of 10 based on 56 ratings

62 comments to Tipping point in civilization: Experts say “listen to children” (sure, the adults are wrong)

  • #
    robert rosicka

    Stefan still subscribes to the more cyclones, disappearing pacific islands and ocean acidity to name but a few alarmist memes .

    211

    • #
      sophocles

      He’s wrong!

      121

      • #
        sophocles

        I can tell you right now, he’s wrong, Wrong, WRONG!

        121

        • #
          sophocles

          If that’s what is being proposed in all seriousness, then give all the prisoners the keys to their cells and put the inmates in charge of their asylums.

          111

          • #
            cohenite

            Steffan should be sued. Or at least someone from the alarmist position should be given the recent Wivenhoe case Judgment which will be paid for by the taxpayers

            81

        • #
          sophocles

          We don’t need no edjikayshun
          We don’t need no thort control
          Steffan: leave those kids alone!

          … with a nod in the direction of Pink Floyd.

          umm, yes. I think we could put the children in charge of the UN … it could improve that institution … of course they would all have to be paid at child rates …

          31

    • #
      glen Michel

      Well we have seen previously how one person’s view can influence public policy. Steffen is a expert in nothing regarding the future and is either mendacious or a fool.

      71

  • #
    George4

    The best thing we can do for our children is not bequeath a debt to them caused by wasting huge amounts of money trying to prevent a climate emergency that does not exist.

    171

  • #
    Yonniestone

    It was once said a small child at the peak of a tantrum would destroy the entire world if they could to spite everyone and everything that opposed them.

    It would appear this has come to pass except the child is an adult that cannot tolerate opposition to their cultish beliefs.

    No bar is too low, no laws are beyond breaking, no morality is safe, nothing is out of bounds, no means too extreme to for the end.

    221

  • #
    Travis T. Jones

    I always get my ‘science’ from kids who wag school because they don’t see any point in learning.

    241

    • #
      David-of-Cooyal-in-Oz

      ABC news reported another school kids demo in Sydney today, and local news reported one in Bathurst, both outside Coalition parties’ offices. Vision showed adults present – teachers? I wonder who organised them? Just before the Madrid meeting?
      The Australian Greta look-alike interviewed on the ABC blamed the recent bushfires she’d experienced on climate change, as if that caused the build up of fuels in the National Parks close by her township in northern NSW.
      (My nearest big fire, called “Gospers Mountain” in the Wollemi National Park, is now heading for 200,000 ha, being just above 194,000 when I looked earlier today. Luckily it’s about 90 kms to the east.)
      Cheers
      Dave B

      141

    • #
      Komrade Kuma

      The main consideration is of course that kids understand the output from ‘the models’ because that is the level ‘the models’are written at and that is the level that ‘science communicators’ pitch their narratives. Its a whole new area of childrens literature, cartoon characters and all.

      71

    • #
      sophocles

      Travis:
      You’ve been listening to/socialising with Greta again.
      You’ll regret it.

      11

  • #
    Ken Davis

    The only tipping point we seem to have reached is the abyss of madness. I used to think talk of mass delusion and mass hysteria were hyperbole. I have changed my mind on that too.

    241

  • #
    Deplorable Lord Kek

    Apparently alarmists are still having difficulty with the concept of circular arguments:

    Alarmists tell kids to be alarmed =>

    Kids are alarmed =>

    Alarmists say listen to the kids.

    381

  • #
    el gordo

    The school children have got it wrong, a cold air outbreak in south east Australia will see the return of winter conditions.

    http://www.bom.gov.au/fwo/IDY65100.pdf

    We have passed the tipping point and global cooling cannot be abated.

    161

    • #
      GD

      a cold air outbreak in southeast Australia will see the return of winter conditions.

      Yep, it’s already back to cold here in Geelong. One day out from summer.

      61

  • #
    OriginalSteve

    The best thing we can give our kids is a live of truth and a power of discernment.

    Because…one just never knows about govts….

    121

    • #
      OriginalSteve

      …love of truth…..

      ….And a willingness to politely challenge the official line, if deemed not quite right.

      Truth is what is, not what some sleazy spin doctor says it is….

      121

  • #
    Rob Leviston

    ‘The more we run computer simulations the more we get exactly-the-same media headlines.’
    And therein lies the problem!
    Relying on flawed computer models and making dire and certain ‘predictions’!
    We are doomed if we listen to this version of ‘science’!
    Instead of studying just the facts, they are studying ‘models’, and the adjusting the facts to fit the models?
    Lord have mercy!

    131

  • #
    eliza

    Jo

    OT but the Qld gov has been ordered to pay cost of major Brisbane floods about 15 years ago I think (I was there). Dam kept filled in my view to Flannery et al maintaing that it would never rain again in Australin and the incredible stupid warmist Anna Bligh Labour giv of the time cheers

    101

  • #
    Peter Fitzroy

    How about you just don’t listen to anyone, a default position for quite a few in parliament, so you won’t be lonely, although, with all that certainty, discussion will be difficult, as I well know

    217

    • #
      WXcycles

      I noticed you’ve been listening to 2-year olds?

      81

    • #
      el gordo

      ‘How about you just don’t listen to anyone …’

      I don’t believe this, do you?

      “In the geological record the earth is quite sensitive to small changes,” Professor Meissner said.

      “Ice sheets are a great example where we know that once they start melting, they reach a point where they’ll keep melting even if it gets colder.”

      81

      • #
        Peter Fitzroy

        El gordo, as the late Clive James pointed out, to cry wolf is not a good tactic. And now, as Jo is saying, this is just the latest version of that tactic. What science lacks is a way to ‘cut through’ as exemplified by our marketeer in chief.

        28

        • #
          AndyG55

          “What [climate] science lacks”

          Is anything to prove any warming by atmospheric CO2

          You have shown that to be a FACT.

          As you say, AGW is all just marketing !

          And you have nothing to sell here.

          Please post your list of regurgitated zombie parrot links again.. its funny !! ;-)

          Now for me, its back to things that need are way more important than playing wack-a-mole. !

          121

        • #
          el gordo

          ‘What science lacks is a way to ‘cut through’ …’

          A noticeable change in the weather, with extreme variability in midlatitude, will get people talking. The ABC will tone down the regular cold air outbreaks throughout summer, whereas Sky will trumpet it.

          We need to have a debate in the MSM on imminent global cooling.

          41

          • #
            Peter Fitzroy

            Well yes el gordo, but you run into the same problem which can be framed like this “extreme heat/wind/fire/bleaching/cold/wet has occurred in the past, this is no different” This is the tactic of isolating a point event from a trend and saying look “nothing to see here! Move along”

            25

            • #
              AndyG55

              Yep, nothing to see in any of your posts, PF

              Still waiting for empirical evidence

              You still have none. !

              This is your only tactic… your gross inability to produce any real science.

              21

            • #
              el gordo

              ‘This is the tactic of isolating a point event from a trend and saying look “nothing to see here! Move along”

              There is a difference, the denialati are saying a quiet sun is making the jetstreams take on the appearance of sine waves. This has collapsed the subtropical ridge and created blocking highs, causing extreme weather in midlatitudes.

              A vibrating molecule is not a driver of climate change, its the huge yellow orb.

              30

    • #
      PeterW

      Not listening……. the default position of ideologues of all stripes.

      The prophets have spoken! We are doomed if we don’t make the sacrifices. Stone the deniers!

      90

    • #
      sophocles

      Mr Fitzroy, the World Famous Space Cadet has just revealed his secret:

      you just don’t listen to anyone

      30

  • #
    pat

    27 Nov: BBC: Climate Change: Are we passing some key ‘tipping points’?
    By Roger Harrabin
    One critic is Professor Mike Hulme from Cambridge University, who is disturbed by the talk of planetary emergency.
    “Their position is speculative; there are no new research findings presented here.
    “Their mathematical ‘formula’ contradicts everything that social science and humanities scholarship tells us about public emergencies – namely that they result from political argument, reflection and judgement.
    “Emergencies are declared by legitimate political actors; they are not calculated mathematically by self-appointed scientists.”

    Professor Richard Betts from the Met Office says the chances of passing these tipping points increases with the level of global heating…
    “Even if we do pass a ‘point of no return’ (or if we have done so already – which may or may not be the case) we still have a chance to limit the damage if we don’t overshoot too far.”
    https://www.bbc.com/news/science-environment-50578516

    50

    • #
      Chad

      Pass a “tipping point”. Every day..
      Its the place where the council empty their garbage trucks !
      Maybe tat is what this new “tipping point “ is also ?….
      ……..just another pile of garbage !

      00

  • #
    pat

    29 Nov: SMH: Australia vs Pakistan Second Test LIVE from Adelaide Oval
    By Phil Lutton
    6.44pm
    So we are about go get going again in Adelaide…
    They are going to get back out there any minute, true story. Warner and Labuschagne making their way back out to the middle, have donned the wool vests as the temperature dips…
    https://www.smh.com.au/sport/cricket/australia-vs-pakistan-second-test-live-from-adelaide-oval-20191129-p53fan.html

    Shane Warne, commentating, noted how unusual it was, at this time of year in Adelaide, to see so many beanies and hoodies.

    60

  • #
    Robert

    Children are like climate models: Garbage In, Garbage Out

    90

  • #
    el gordo

    ‘A group of European organisations is calling on MEPs to reject a motion to announce a ‘climate emergency’ when the European Parliament votes on it tomorrow.

    ‘The European Climate Realist Network (ECRN) is concerned that unjustified panic and alarm could pressure MEPs into supporting costly policies that will hurt European families, businesses and Europe’s economic stability and competitiveness.

    ‘In reality, over the last 30 years the world has warmed far less than predicted by the IPCC and most climate models.’

    GWPF

    100

  • #
    WXcycles

    These EU bureaucrats are not going to be happy until they trigger a Europe-wide civil revolt. It’s never enough, you sign-up to the Paris Agreement, you meet all your commitments, but it’s never enough for the green scourge. These hysterical people need a good hard slap, and told to shut-up and sit down.

    120

  • #
    feral_nerd

    The whole tipping point argument just gives me fits. It makes no sense. Complex systems consisting of large numbers of interacting variables do not, as a rule, flip catastrophically because one minor input out of many changes slightly in magnitude. That’s not how it works.

    110

  • #

    DOE should revive the Office of Policy Analysis (my latest article)
    https://www.cfact.org/2019/11/29/doe-should-revive-the-office-of-policy-analysis/

    Now that Rick “do nothing” Perry is quitting as U.S. Secretary of Energy, there is an opportunity to do something truly useful. My proposal is to re-establish the Office of Policy Analysis (OPA) in DOE’s massive Office of Science (SC).

    SC is the world’s biggest funder of physical science and OPA could bring some of that weight to bear on pressing, science intensive policy issues. SC also runs a bunch of National Laboratories, which are far less political than the universities funded by other federal science agencies. The opportunity for balanced assessments is clearly there, given proper direction.

    The Office of Policy Analysis had a distinguished history, until it was killed by the Gore Administration for being too objective. Yes I know it was what is commonly called the Clinton Administration, but when it came to issues of energy and environment Al Gore was the bad King. Gore did enormous policy damage, much of which continues to this day.

    I even have a candidate Director for the new OPA, which is Dr. Walter Warnick. Walt ran one of OPA’s two divisions until Gore axed it, then went on to run SC’s prestigious Office of Scientific and Technical Information (OSTI) until he retired a few years ago. I worked closely with him for ten years at OSTI. His specialty is solving hard problems with small budgets, so we are not talking about a lot if money for the new OPA.

    Walt is also very good at interagency coordination. At OSTI he orchestrated the building of the Science.gov portal, that integrates millions of scientific documents from pretty much all of the federal science agencies. This was an incredible feat, given the independent nature of these groups.

    In fact Walt directed one of OPA’s most famous projects — the National Acid Precipitation Assessment Project, commonly known simply as NAPAP. DOE played a leading role in this 10 year, multi-agency investigation into the validity of the so-called “acid rain” scare. Their finding was that there was little scientific support for the scare.

    America today faces a number of environmental scares, some as big as or bigger than acid rain, especially climate change. Major policy issues are at stake. DOE’s Office of Science and the National Laboratories are the proper place for an objective assessment of the science pertaining to these issues.

    Note that DOE already has a parallel office of energy policy analysis. According to its webpage, the role of the Office of Energy Policy and Systems Analysis is to deliver unbiased energy analysis to the Department of Energy’s leadership on existing and prospective energy-related policies, focusing in part on integrative analysis of energy systems. But there is no scientific counterpart, which puts the energy policy cart before the science policy horse.

    Also, the Interior Department has an Office of Policy Analysis. The Energy Department needs one just as badly, probably more so since America’s energy future is at stake.

    As with NAPAP, the key to objective assessment is to only draw those conclusions that can be supported by strong and non-controversial evidence. Either that or to report that no firm conclusion can be drawn, which may often be the case. The kind of scary speculation and self-serving hype that infects the academic journals is simply not allowed. This is just how Walt works.

    I propose that the DOE Office of Policy Analysis be revived, with Dr. Walter Warnick as its Director.

    David

    40

  • #

    Quite apart from the fact that I won’t be eating Ferrero Rocher all night and drinking Red Bull while playing Donkey Kong and watching Frozen on a loop because a kid told me it would be a great idea…

    And apart from the obvious fact that these lecturing kids are repeating the lectures of adults who constantly fill their heads with spooks…

    This listen-to-the-kids strategy of the climate industry amounts to using human shields. Decent combatants keep a few shreds of honour even under fire, don’t put kids (and autists with eating disorders) in front of their ranks.

    But we’re not dealing with decent combatants. We’re dealing with the Fabians, ever the race of brutes and sneaks no matter what gaudy re-branding of grey collectivism they are trying to foist. How desperate they must be getting.

    130

  • #
    Rick Kinsman

    I once had a mate who told me he asked his 5 year old child who he (the adult) should vote for in an upcoming election because the future belongs to the next generation. I told him he probably did the right thing because the child likely had more sense than he did.
    The point is that children rarely think beyond their own self interest and certainly don’t think in terms of the long term or the greater good. This remains true for most people right up to their 20′s. I often ask young people where they see themselves in 10 or 20 years – most of them can’t answer because they have no concept of the future and certainly no plan.
    It’s never a good idea to “listen” to children, unless they’re telling you the house is on fire.

    120

  • #
    Serge Wright

    What Steffan is really saying is “Listen to the children who we have brainwashed with our alarmist comrades at schools and learning institutions. To save ourselves we must divest from our capitalist and democratic ways and institute a new marxist totalitarian regime where I hope to achieve a position of high status and privelege which I deserve”

    Sorry Willy, not buying it !!!

    70

  • #
    thingadonta

    Wasn’t it most often in 1984 the children who dobbed in their parents and others for ‘thought crime’.

    If you look up ‘gullibility’ in the ‘Consensus Dictionary’ it isn’t there.

    50

  • #
    PeterW

    If listening to children works, why do we bother having “experts”?

    80

  • #
    Ruairi

    Much of warmism’s climate-change truth,
    Is learned from hysterical youth,
    The young climate cult,
    Whom they often consult,
    And some children not long in the tooth.

    40

  • #
    Michael262

    The children are saying ‘listen to the scientists ‘, they are the adults in the room.

    16

    • #
      AndyG55

      And you are a child, mickey, and you are NOT listening to the real scientists.

      You STILL haven’t produced one bit of empirical evidence to show that human are responsible for all the natural climate variability.

      50

    • #
      el gordo

      Yeah, lets listen to the scientists.

      Climategate Email 1120593115.txt, speaker Phil Jones

      This is from an Australian at BMRC (not Neville Nicholls). It began from the attached article. What an idiot. The scientific community would come down on me in no uncertain terms if I said the world had cooled from 1998. OK, it has, but it is only 7 years of data and it isn’t statistically significant. … As you know, I’m not political. If anything, I would like to see the climate change happen, so the science could be proved right, regardless of the consequences. This isn’t being political, it is being selfish.

      40

  • #
    Roy Hogue

    It’s time to listen to the kids, Professor Steffen said.

    Good idea Professor Steffen. If they know so much we can stop spending so much money educating them and maybe we could do without you too.

    I always like a solution that solves more than one problem. Economy of means is a good thing.

    70

  • #
    Zane

    Oh no not the dreaded tipping point again!

    10

  • #

    “The Heart of Humanity” is a Canadian war movie from 1918 you can watch on Youtube. It includes a depiction of German combatants pushing women before them and holding up children tied to poles as human shields while invading a French town, Ypres, I believe. Allied soldiers retreat in horror at the advance that would force them to fire on children. Greta Thunburg is–a century later–the current human child shield for attacks by ecological national socialism. Kiddie arsonists for Gaia is nothing you should not have expected.

    10

  • #
    Rolf

    Listen to Children ? That’s what people did during the ages we burnt wiches in northern Europe centuries ago. Will people never learn from history ?

    01

  • #
    ThurstonBT

    “listen to children”?

    The word “pedophrasty” needs to see more use in these matters.

    https://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=Pedophrasty
    See also https://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=Pedophrasty

    00

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