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Homogenisation: The Magical system which uses thermometers in Victoria to correct the temperature in Tasmania

Trying to fix past mistakes through homogenization

Lots of things can muck up a perfect thermometer spot, like shade, new roads, new screens, or old paint. In order to remove these annoying non-climatic effects, the BOM compares each station to those around it to look for odd changes. In theory this sounds like a good idea. In practice it’s more like hepatitis – bad news that spreads. It’s a rogue code, sweeping through records, trying to find undocumented changes, and enabling any amount of revisionism.

The BOM “detects” these mysterious shifts at each site through thermometers that may be hundreds of kilometers away, even across a mountain range or the Bass Strait.

Among other sites, Cape Bruny in far south Tasmania has been corrected with the help of Ballarat 812 km away on the mainland, over mountains and across the Bass Strait. In 1991 Cape Bruny was found to be “statistically” wrong, and adjusted down by over half a degree.

Cape Bruny Island, Tasmania, Thermometer, Bureau of Meteorology

All these sites marked in red were used to correct the record at least once at Cape Bruny, a distant island in the far south of Tasmania.

It’s a tough life for old screens: Their wooden houses get cracked, their lawn doesn’t get mowed, they get moved around the corner, and then the old thermometer gets swapped for a new one. Sometimes careless people build buildings and carparks in inconvenient places, bringing shade and windbreaks. Sometimes these are recorded, sometimes not.

No one is saying that the raw data doesn’t need any adjustments, but the BOM should be doing the historical research first, as the unpaid BOM audit team does — and for these kinds of changes, especially Bill Johnston. Only after the BOM has all the documentary photos and site moves should it even think about letting an algorithm sweep through the raw data trying to make up for all the inadequacies of the recording equipment or the lack of good information about the site.

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Rating: 9.7/10 (90 votes cast)
Homogenisation: The Magical system which uses thermometers in Victoria to correct the temperature in Tasmania, 9.7 out of 10 based on 90 ratings

357 comments to Homogenisation: The Magical system which uses thermometers in Victoria to correct the temperature in Tasmania

  • #
    reformed warmist of logan

    Good Evening,
    Clearly the B.O.M., A.B.C., C.S.I.R.O., and most – if not all – of Australia’s Universities, have fallen hugely short of un-biased & professional service to us Australian Citizens.
    (Who pay a large contribution each year towards their budgets.)
    Clearly the Federal Government needs to put them on notice before the next budget, that if they don’t return to balanced & professional service delivery, their budgets should be cut by between 20-50%.
    I hope many others agree.
    Although I’m sure if you’re a climate catastrophe cult member you’ll not.
    Kind regards, Reformed Warmist of Logan.

    360

    • #
      Geoff

      It is not about the thermometers. It is ALL ABOUT the MONEY and how to extract more from the taxpayer.

      201

    • #
      Bill in Oz

      Topic is the BOm.
      There’s plenty to discuss about it’s failings..
      Why not focus on them ?
      Scattered criticisms
      Have less impact !

      112

      • #
        Bill in Oz

        Here is another big BOM Failure !
        Yesterday the BOM issued a road weather alert for the Adelaide Hills due to fog & rain.
        All good !
        but this morning with fog & rain still here in the Adelaide Hills that alert got cancelled.
        Duhhhhhhh ?
        Can’t they see out their bloody windows ? Can’y they SEE the low cloud in the Hills ? It seems not !
        The cancellation was reported on Facebook Group named “Adelaide Hills Alerts”
        ( It’s public group so anyone can see it.)
        I made a comment stating that the BOM was wrong as the fog is still here and it’s a road hazard.
        And I got a reply asking me to have a “little Faith” in the BOM
        Dohhhh ?
        Now that is sheer bloody idiocy. But it is what many people think about the BOM :
        “HAVE FAITH”
        Utter nonsense !
        if folks are interested, go take a look here :
        https://www.facebook.com/groups/hillsemergencyalert/2402976379772124/?comment_id=2403036936432735&reply_comment_id=2403094539760308&notif_id=1570400818996017&notif_t=group_comment_mention

        110

        • #
          Serge Wright

          Here is my guess as to how this occured.

          After the alert of fog and rain was sent, the BOM personnel decided to check the climate models just to make sure. After all every BOM employee knows that the models never lie, only the instruments lie, which is why they need regular adjustment to maintain alignment with the models. After entering the request into the taxpayer provided super computer and a few minutes of waiting the models woud have provided an output that said “permanently hot and dry” no rain or atmospheric moisture or temperatures <35 C possible until CO2 < 300ppm.

          It was at this point that the BOM realised the rain and fog was merely an illusion and the alert rescinded. Case solved ;)

          40

      • #
        Bill in Oz

        So we have a BOM
        Which has hundreds of failed Weather stations
        Cannot get a Road weather alert right
        And spend it’s budget hiring computer nerds
        To homogenise it’s weather station data !
        No bloody wonder the BOM
        Is the Bureau of Misinformation !

        70

      • #
        jack

        It is true that the BoM is an institute of very evident consideration pertaining to this blog site. But its dereliction is a symptom that now plagues all our institutions, especially those of of science and knowledge.
        Band-aids for the symptoms will not fix the problem, the cause needs to be clearly identified and eradicated.
        The fundamental principles of an enlightened society, reality, truth and reason, are being systematically attacked and destroyed.
        Expose this systemic nightmare and you become a pariah, you are metaphorically chained to a mountain to have your liver perpetually devoured by eagles.
        It is not a naivety that is leading the destruction of such values; it is that people living with such principles cannot be controlled, as such, you have the unseen assassins of truth and reason, pulling the strings of our so call democratic society, with a nefarious agenda.
        When we all agree that 2 + 2 = 5, they will have achieved their goals.

        71

      • #
        Bill in Oz

        Ken Stewart has recommenced his blogs about NON compliant BOM weather stations.
        And he has started off with a users manual so any of us can check on the BOM weather stations for ourselves
        It’s a step by step guide.
        Dead easy in fact !
        https://kenskingdom.wordpress.com/2019/10/07/the-wacky-world-of-weather-stations-how-to-check-for-yourself/#comments

        He has also ppsted his check on two more BOM weather stations in Qld.

        One os them is in a sand ( silca ) mine !
        Located on a bare patch of sand in the mine..
        So bloody ‘wonderful’ and ‘competent’
        And ‘expert’ and ‘professional” & “scientific” !
        NOT !
        There isa lot of tax ayers money wasted on this gold plated nonsense !

        40

        • #
          Bill in Oz

          Ohhh my gosh !
          The topic is BOM and it’s incompetence
          And I put up two examples of it for folks to see
          And all Ken Stewart’s work gets is two green thumbs.
          Don’y you all realise that this is the death of a thousand cuts for BOM ?
          The BOM’s complete incompetence is being laid bare for all to see
          In the field where it started it’s life
          measuring temperatures !
          It can’t even do that competently.
          Or have you all bought in Fitzroy’s and Vishe’s shameless distractions !

          00

          • #
            Vishnu

            Steady on – my challenge to you guys is to do an alternative analysis removing stations that you deem unsuitable and with no homogenisation. But you are all too gutless or inept to do it. I know why – you won’t like the answer. Endless whinging about a few dud stations is boring and gets us nowhere in terms of knowledge. Maybe the silica mine and sugar terminal wanted their own station – not everything is for climate change.

            06

            • #
              AndyG55

              So, you are going to pay is $1 million a year to do it?

              You poor stunned mullet, little-vishy. !!

              BAD DATA and data mal-adjustment is the only thing holding the AGW scam together.

              You cannot hide that fact behind blathering.

              00

  • #
    pat

    o/t but relevant. without the manipulation of the data, how would our politicians get away with this -

    VIDEO: 14min08sec: 6 Oct: ABC: Federal Water Resources Minister David Littleproud on Insisers
    Speaking on Insiders, Minister Littleproud said the Government ***accepts climate change is a major factor in worsening drought conditions.
    https://www.abc.net.au/news/2019-10-06/you-tube-littleproud-on-insiders/11577724

    at 9min55sec: David Littleproud: “We’re going to see 33,000 gigawatts of renewable energy put on in the next year or so. Most of that will happen in my own (Queensland) electorate.

    6 Oct: Guardian: Water resources minister ‘totally’ accepts drought linked to climate change
    David Littleproud signals more taxpayer support for rural communities as big dry ‘escalates’
    by Katharine Murphy
    Littleproud, who stumbled last month by first telling Guardian Australia he did not know if climate change was manmade, then later clarifying he had always accepted the science on the role humans play in the climate changing, told the ABC on Sunday he understood the link between global warming and drought because “I live it”…

    ***He was also positive about the role of renewable energy. “We’re going to see 33,000 gigawatts of renewable energy put on in the next year or so. Most of that will happen in my own (Queensland) electorate.
    https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2019/oct/06/water-resources-minister-totally-accepts-drought-linked-to-climate-change

    192

    • #
      RobK

      David Littleproud: “We’re going to see 33,000 gigawatts of renewable energy put on in the next year or so

      That is what he said. Unbelievable, literally. An increase of around a thousand fold in grid capacity in one year. Why do these people waste their breath.

      350

      • #
        Lance

        Gee. That 33000 GW is only 32 times the total US Grid Generation Capacity.

        I don’t know about Queensland, but it took the US 120 years and 5 Trillion USD to get to 1,039 GW of generating capacity. That 1039 GW in the US serves 350 Million People and all US Industry.

        What is Queensland going to do with all that power? Turn lead into gold with thousands of cyclotrons?

        190

      • #
        RobK

        Google,What is the capacity of the NEM grid?:

        It has a total electricity generating capacity of almost 54,421 MW (as at December 2017). $16.6 billion was traded in the NEM in the financial year 2016–17. Strategic reserves of demand and generation resources of more than 1000 MW for 2017-18.
        https://www.aemo.com.au › Electricity
        National Electricity Market – Australian Energy Market Operator

        40

      • #
        Serp

        Oh well, one ignoramus speaking to another –the ABC didn’t pick up the glaring error; he’d have done better to have said “we’re putting in lots more power generation” rather than trying to speak of scaling factors beyond everybody’s ken. Nowadays nobody is instructed in the rhetorical rule define your audience (and pitch to its level of comprehension).

        20

    • #
      glen Michel

      Littleproud is one of those softc**k Nationals who have infested that party in recent years. Capricious and standing for zilch, except protecting his sinecure. Plays politics both ways and is a closet socialist. In short an imposter.

      270

    • #
      theRealUniverse

      “We’re going to see 33,000 gigawatts” I would suggest he hasnt a clue what a gigawatt is! Arithmatically retarded.

      120

  • #
    pat

    on Sky “Front Page” it was said tonight that Queensland will close a coal-fired power plant 10 years early because of the amount of solar being installed.

    open access…read all:

    5 Oct: Australian: UN manadarins call shots over voters
    by Chris Kenny
    If not for environment editor Graham Lloyd’s report in this newspaper last week, who of us would be aware of the UN’s “green new deal” and its plans to redistribute $3.7 trillion around the globe in pursuit of its sustainable development goals? The UN and its member nations want increased government interventions to shift funds from prospective private propositions to what the UN deems as socially desirable investments.
    What could possibly go wrong? What has already gone wrong, and how did we get here?

    Meanwhile, as Cliona O’Dowd reported in The Australian on Thursday, investment funds worth $52 trillion are warning they will hold Australia’s largest companies to account over climate action. The Climate Action 100+ group includes some of our large industry/union superannuation funds and wields enormous shareholder power
    While the ceaseless vanities and rivalries of domestic political ambition play out in sovereign states, the forces of globalisation power on unabated. Clearly this was the case in Australia in September 2015…

    The goals themselves sound harmless — 17 motherhood categories ranging from ending poverty, eradicating hunger, delivering gender equality, fighting climate change, making communities sustainable and reducing inequality — but we all have seen the progressive political interventions that emanate from such undertakings, from extensive and futile climate subsidies to ridiculous edicts about which bathrooms we should feel free to use…

    If voters knew this sort of stuff was happening in their name, on their behalf, with bipartisan support and despite never being put to them, they might be expected to riot…
    https://www.theaustralian.com.au/inquirer/un-mandarins-call-shots-over-voters/news-story/359e44535666e064a442c2fb7151f010

    170

    • #
      glen Michel

      Morrison’s speech to the Lowy Institute and Chris Kenny and his latest editorial are good to hear. The Penny has dropped at last – to a degree. Still doesn’t quite get it.

      180

    • #
      OriginalSteve

      Its going to lead to riots……mark my words.

      Good thing the Elite can call in ( likely american ) UN “peacekeeping” troops to put down the “trouble” they started in the first place

      Problem-Reaction-Solution methodology at work.

      The Elite are slowly putting this country in a strait jacket…cutting off our power, putting useless unreliables in ( which will be useless in a LIA ) and then will crush any attempt when people try to wrest back democracy.

      The plan appears to make it do we have no means of heating…..so we have mass die off of the population.

      Kind of reminds me of that movie “Tomorrow When The War Began” except thd occupation seems to be from within?

      Hope Im wrong….

      30

  • #
    Speedy

    My understanding is that “homogenisation” invariably involves cooling the older temperature records, which has the effect of making the recent temperature record look hotter. Rather convenient, if you can’t get the facts to reconcile with your theory…
    Cheers,
    Mike

    280

    • #
      Ian George

      Not only cooling the older temps, Speedy, but increasing the recent temps.
      All the annual mean temps since from at least 2000 – 2017 have been adjusted up by an average of 0.1C.
      For instance, 2011 was -0.14C below average according to the BoM 2011 summary – it’s now 0.0C according to the BoM’s time series.
      ‘The Australian area-averaged mean temperature in 2011 was 0.14 °C below the 1961 to 1990 average of 21.81 °C.’
      http://www.bom.gov.au/climate/current/annual/aus/2011/
      Now watch that 0.14C disappear on the time series graph.
      http://www.bom.gov.au/climate/change/#tabs=Tracker&tracker=timeseries
      If you click the data link you can see the 0.00C for 2011.

      150

      • #
        GreatAuntJanet

        It’s not just the way they alter data for homogenisation – it’s everything that appears unreliable.

        Today, various Australian online news and weather publications (inc Weatherzone ‘Southern Queensland weather forecast to bring severe fire danger and 40-degree heatwave’) are declaring coming heatwave with temps of 40 for Qld.

        I took a look at all the forecasts for towns in that area, and could only find one – Ipswich with a forecast of 40 for today and tomorrow. Today at just before 3pm, when it was forecast to be 40 in Ipswich it is actually only registering as 35.7 – so how right is that predicted 40 going to be for tomorrow anyway?

        And from Wednesday the temps are dropping to high 20s anyway. Hardly a ‘heatwave’, even if it really happened as they forecast.

        Why does the media continually exaggerate these things? Who benefits?

        40

    • #
      Serp

      Tony Heller has many videos devoted to all forms of data adjustment at realclimatescience.com (watch out you’re not transferred to skeptical science dot com by google search).

      30

  • #
    Vishnu

    So …. what answer do you get if do your own analysis (sound of crickets or excuses why that’s not possible).
    Any excuse to avoid an independent analysis.

    So you may say – don’t trust any BoM data. Fair enuff. ANd given satellite analysis also has limitations, is one big adjustment itself, and as Roy Spencer himself has said, not useful for a straight grid box analysis over Aussie … well we therefore know nuttin’ about nuttin’. So depressing.

    So dear readers we don’t know. Maybe we’re cooling? I reckon we are about to enter an Ice Age. Someone on the internet told me so. But I reckon none of this even exists – it’s just a big Truman Show simulation. In any case it’s all over as Planet 9 is gonna get us – https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_c1RrO9JKmQ

    431

    • #
      Sceptical Sam

      Have you started noticing any unusual events yet Vishnu? Events like: a spotlight falling out of the sky, a radio frequency that precisely describes your movements and rain that falls only on You?

      It’s Karma. It’s what happens when when you culturally appropriate another’s persona.

      Actually, I think the evidence is pointing to you not being Vishnu at all, but The Lone Ranger. You know, that Texas sharp-shooter who had a side kick called Tonto. Maybe you got your Indians confused, as well as your science? That be right, Kemo Sabe?

      192

      • #
        glen Michel

        Reminds me about a particular Lone Ranger joke about the 10thousand Apaches refusing to attack the wagon train as John Wayne was at their head.

        70

      • #

        LOL The best Lone Ranger joke was in their names. As most people know, Tonto means idiot, but Lakota hoop dancer Kevin Locke once told me that Kemo Sabe is a Plains Indian term meaning pervert.

        90

        • #
          beowulf

          Did you know that the goof who played the Lone Ranger was still wearing his mask around in public 40 years later? He wouldn’t take the damned thing off.

          When a movie studio wanted to do the Lone Ranger movie they had to get a court order against him to force him to stop wearing the mask in case he gave their movie a bad look.

          50

    • #
      David Wojick

      It is true that we cannot determine regional averages, hence not regional trends. It follows that science has nothing to explain. Substituting politically motivated guesswork and calling for national action thereon is the height of bad science and worse policy.

      240

      • #
        David Wojick

        The proper response to ignorance is “we don’t know,” not “here is our authoritative guess, take it as true.” But there is no money in ignorance.

        200

        • #
          Bob Fernley-Jones

          Out of the huge number of stations existing in Oz, 112 have been homogenized but eight of those are not used for national averaging because they are affected by UHI.

          The map above reveals that Cape Bruny is relatively tiny and in a very exposed position. There is a lot of work involved in the homogenization process so it’s puzzling why it should be considered for national/regional averaging.

          But then, some stations are more equal than others, under the system of Station Area-weighting. For instance, Alice Springs slap in the Centre of Australia currently has a weighting of 0.03314, whereas Cape Bruny is 0.00071. In other words, Alice Springs is 46.7 times more equal than Cape Bruny.

          Why Bother?

          90

    • #
      AndyG55

      Great load of GIBBERISH , Vishy..

      and you weren’t even trying. !!

      121

    • #
      el gordo

      Vishnu the Denialati despise revisionists and ask the guvmint for a BoM audit.

      ‘Maybe we’re cooling?’

      No maybe about it, the collapse of the STR in the Austral winter 2017 is empirical evidence that the world is sliding into cooler times. This obsession with world temperatures is folly, we should be focussed on the oscillations and solar forcing, and not a benign trace gas.

      161

    • #
      robert rosicka

      Vishnu you need to explain the difference between Projections and forecasts ! Is there some reason your dodging this question .

      40

    • #
      theRealUniverse

      @Vishy, I have no idea what you are talking about. When you write, please use proper grammar.

      80

    • #
      Bill in Oz

      Are you a doubting Vishnu !
      Seems like you are.
      We are making our own judgements about the Bureau of Misinformation mate
      and they ignore your Furphies !
      BOM is incompetent !
      It can’t even get road weather alerts right here in the Adelaide Hills
      Go look above at 1.2.1
      Sack the idiots !

      80

    • #
      Lance

      Methinks you are quite too arrogant.

      “Vishnu is the second god in the Hindu triumvirate (orTrimurti).The triumvirate consists of three gods who are responsible for the creation, upkeep and destruction of the world.”

      Nice try, mate.

      Not a God, not a Saint, not Relevant.

      70

    • #
      Phoenix44

      The answer is simple – if you don’t trust your data, don’t use it.

      That’s what science would do.

      20

  • #
    Lionell Griffith

    Data badly taken is not data. It is only a number that fails to relate directly to the parameter measured. Adjusting it by ANY method does not make it good data that is related directly to the parameter measured. If there is good reason (recorded and verifiable) to know the data was badly taken, it should be discarded. Then data should be correctly acquired to replace it.

    If you are attempting to “adjust” historical data, a similar rule applies. If you have recorded evidence that it was badly taken, it must be discarded. Otherwise it must be used AS IS.

    How about extreme reported values (high or low)? They fall under the same rule. Even using the 5 sigma deviation rule is suspect if you have no other evidence of the measurement being badly done.

    The above is true if you are doing science. If what you are doing is not science, then why bother with using actual data? Why not simply create a list of numbers that can be used to pretend you are doing science to get the results you wanted in the first place? Isn’t that exactly what all the repeated/recursive “adjustments” of data is all about?

    Why not be honest? Tell everyone that you are faking it and that all your results are bogus but that you want everyone to act as if your results reflected reality.

    Interestingly, that seems to be too much to expect out of so called climate science today. Yet, based upon totally bogus reports, we are to spend ourselves into oblivion to save the earth. With the added reason that the so called climate scientist can continue with the research into the bogus settled science.

    Why do we allow this destructive charade to continue?

    270

    • #
      David Wojick

      Why do we allow it to continue? Because we lack the power to stop it. It is in the grips of a powerful political movement. Which is why the powers that be allow it to continue.

      220

      • #
        PeterS

        Because voters keep placing them into power, together with all the other problems they ignore. We ought to have the ABC “corrected” by our own government some time ago, Universities and schools made accountable to teach rather than to indoctrinate, power companies encouraged to build coal and nuclear power stations rather than to allow renewables scam to constitute, etc. etc.. Governments are there to act upon the will of the people under our form of democracy, and it works. They do and that’s the root cause of the problem; the people. As long as we keep going the way we are by electing either major party the closer we will get to the edge of the cliff, until one day….

        70

        • #
          Serp

          The powers that be David Wojick refers to have not been installed by voters.

          00

          • #
            PeterS

            No but those who were installed by voters have either supported or allowed those with powers to act against the interests of the people. There is a lot of truth in the saying “the only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing”.

            00

      • #

        ” … we lack the power to stop it …”
        And those who do have the power to stop it don’t. I had a look at that “Climate Action 100+ group”. There are the usual sycophants and carpet-baggers, but enough big companies have also signed up who must know this is nonsense and could crush it overnight if they chose to.

        70

        • #
          PeterS

          Power ultimately rests with the people. It’s their choice.

          30

          • #
            OriginalSteve

            The people havent been kicked in the head hard enough to wake up yet…..

            10

            • #
              PeterS

              The problem though is by the time they are kicked in the head enough to wake up they might die shortly thereafter. Time is short if not already too late to turn things around. There are trillions of dollars supporting the war against the people and our elected representatives are too scared to fight back. For our nation to survive we need elected representatives who are willing to fight that war. Otherwise, we might as well give up and let things continue the way they are.

              10

      • #

        David
        I keep hassling my Federal member. Some say I am wasting my time. But if enough people hassled their Federal members then there is more chance we get a better response here.The BOM is a govt business and cannot, as my Federal member admitted, continue to be “captured” by a certain ideology.

        At some stage there will be serious and prolonged blackouts and then all this nonsense will immediately stop.

        20

    • #
      glen Michel

      We all should know that in earlier, more sensible times that things made sense. Contrivances that complicate data that should be taken as directly observed are anathema. It is meaningless as temperature varies so much that it amounts to nothing. Of course it’s about politics and conforming to the “practice”.

      60

  • #
    Lawrence E Todd

    when I was a data administrator, I too used programs to identify data points that looked like they were erroneous. The big difference between what they do and what I did was that every time I had one of these I personally verified the data by hand. In many cases the data needed to be corrected usually by going back to the source and many times it was correct just out of the normal

    190

    • #
      Latus Dextro

      From a scientific and statistical viewpoint, I have always been suspicious and uncomfortable around the removal of ‘outliers’ that mess with the neat and preferred distribution of the data. Defined as outliers simply because they don’t fit rather than heading out to the field and examining the nature of what is taking place would seem a more prudent approach. In some disciplines this was just plain wrong. Anatomy used to suggest we were all much the same. The advent of modern sophisticated imaging and study has shown us that variation is very much the norm, not sameness.
      While I appreciate the alleged statistical merits and convenience of the process, I nonetheless still feel instinctively uncomfortable. Taking it to the next level, to one of ideological and funding driven tampering, adjusting, while concealing original data and refusing to explain the basis of the adjustment is obviously not science, nor is it statistics, well perhaps the latter given the old adage, lies, damned lies and statistics. Instead, as we all know, it is politics, and while not quite the oldest profession, it pays homage to the ancient and noble art of lying for personal gain.
      Given the seemingly large number of adversely impacted (UHI etc) met data recorders one could understand a perceived need for increased homogenisation. Odd though, when one looks at ‘adjustments’ that NASA/NOAA have made to the data a portion are related to adjusting actual empirical data, and a portion (50%) is manufactured from computer models. Since 1990 50% of US data is generated by computer models. The amazing manipulation by the adjustment bureau ensures that modelled adjustments precisely track the rising concentration of CO2 in the atmosphere. Ultimate junk science. Rewriting America’s History 7:14
      The stench is unbearable.

      170

    • #
      AndyG55

      BOM would be lucky to be able to find some of their sites,

      among the tin sheds, on roofs, in airport engine blast paths. etc

      121

      • #
        Greg in NZ

        And 20 feet under the ocean coz, um, sea level rise and stuff. Run for the hills

        Dang, they’re on fire. Run back to the sea… (repeat ad nauseam: Latin, literally ‘to sickness’).

        30

  • #
    Komrade Kuma

    It seems obvious to me that if it is so common for stations to be moved or otherwise have their surrounding local environment altered so commonly then there is just no way the data should be used as part of a broad scale temperature estimate be that continental or global. Full Stop. Period.

    As for adjusting Cape Bruny with the assistance of Ballarat….. huh? Short of using Alice Springs, could you get a more mismatched pair of stations whose local weather is so different?

    180

    • #
      Yonniestone

      Agree, here in Ballarat we’re ~400m above sea level, 100 kms inland and I see Bruny Island average high is 17C where ours is 18C, which while close doesn’t take into account how long the maximums spike for.

      30

  • #

    Nearly 2 years ago I blogged -
    Cape Bruny AWS reads warmer than Stevenson screen 18m away
    http://www.warwickhughes.com/blog/?p=5411

    for what its worth

    250

  • #

    Knowing the min/max of a day at any site is not knowing how hot or cold. It’s knowing what temp was reached in one moment of that day. In a month or season of afternoon cloud, a potential high is seldom reached, despite much heat. Without cloud at potential max time (afternoon) an ordinary month or season will be “hotter”…even though it isn’t really.

    And minima? These are shot to pieces by early AM cloud. Duh.

    And if you have used different methods to achieve measurement you can’t compare measurements. Adjustment is vain. You consider all results, conflate none. It’s too bad. You want a master statistic…you can’t have it. Not without turning water to sewage in an attempt to turn it to wine.

    Add to this that thermometers follow people and human activity, not weather. Especially over a vast and mostly vacant continent straddling a number of unrelated zones. Thermometers are yard dogs. They don’t rove. They won’t hunt.

    When alarmists demand that skeps show their own analysis etc they are really looking for converts to their bogus religion of scientism.

    All statistics are wonky, some are useful. Some, like a national temp, are just clownish.

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  • #
    Clyde Spencer

    It would seem that advocates of homogenization deny the existence of microclimates.

    130

  • #

    Homogenization = Shaking a container of curdled milk and then telling your thirsty child that
    “It looks just fine to me”.

    140

  • #
    Kalm Keith

    I may be about to be homogenized myself today.

    I have to go into Wellington.

    The Demonstration.

    100

    • #
      Latus Dextro

      Deepest sympathies., KK.

      70

      • #
        Greg in NZ

        KK, hope you’re wearing your winter woolies and beanie and gloves, as are the Eek! Stinky! Warmunists in the photos:

        https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/national/400420/extinction-rebellion-block-off-street-in-central-wellington

        “About 500 protesters from the climate action protest group, Extinction Rebellion, have closed down Stout Street in central Wellington”. People phoned in to radio stations this morning to say it was more like 50 people, and looking at the photos, most of them were media reporters and/or photographers. The scorching crisis temp was 13˚C, cranking up to a life-threatening 14.5˚ when I checked now (2 pm NZ-time).

        Beware of instantaneous sea level rise too – most of downtown WLG is built on reclaimed land from the harbour AND on a fault line to boot. Have a hoot! Let us know how you survived the catastrophic heat wave (and hordes of capital zombies getting high on super glue and spray paint).

        50

  • #

    Antoine Raymond Joseph de Bruni, chevalier d’Entrecasteaux. The Chinese gold digger who rode a climate cycle across icebergs to the Ballarat glacier field.
    Wait up is that right? Oh close enough its coffee time.
    Sarc off.
    Looking forward to seeing more of What Bill has untangled.

    130

  • #
    Latus Dextro

    Only after the BOM has all the documentary photos and site moves should it even think about letting an algorithm sweep through the raw data trying to make up for all the inadequacies of the recording equipment or the lack of good information about the site.

    Sorry couldn’t resist.

    One is indeed heartened to discover that raw data actually exists.
    However, one should never let an Al Gore rhythm sweep through anything.

    100

    • #
      ivan

      They may have had ‘raw data’ once but where is it now? Do we have to look in the garbage bin to find it?

      80

      • #
        David Maddison

        I am also concerned that original raw data no longer exists and has been replaced with “corrected” data.

        70

      • #
        Vishnu

        These are really drongo questions by people who just make stuff up. Pathetic. Try making a single phone call. A duh. Would take about 10 mins on the web to work the story out.
        You can have as much raw data as you like – the whole record if you can store it. Maybe you could analyse it instead of cheering on the uninformed endlessly – you know – inform us what the “real” story is from your incisive analysis. But having a good old whinge is easier.

        319

        • #
          Bill in Oz

          Phone calls go to the message bank
          And never responded to
          Bugger BOM !

          90

        • #
          AndyG55

          “by people who just make stuff up”

          You mean being asked OF people just making it up, don’t you Vishy

          90

        • #
          AndyG55

          This approach of yours is exceptionally SLIMY, Vishy.

          It takes time and money to perform that sort of analysis.

          That was what Tony Abbott’s “audit” would have provided, so could not be allowed.

          But what we can do is point out ALL that is WRONG about the whole mess that is BOM.

          You really can’t hack being shown that a LARGE PROPORTION of BOM data is just JUNK, can you.

          You cannot allow yourself to ADMIT THE FACTS.. ever. !!

          And that the manipulation of that data using other JUNK data really is a case of extreme GARBAGE IN – GARBAGE OUT

          91

          • #
            Vishnu

            But but but – pathetic. Put up or shut up you troll.

            29

            • #
              AndyG55

              Poor Vishy, look at your desperation.

              You have been shown that a LARGE PROPORTION of BOM data is just JUNK.

              Just keep your eyes closed and go “la-la-la” , Vishy.

              You cannot allow yourself to ADMIT THE FACTS.. ever. !!

              You KNOW that the manipulation of that JUNK data using other JUNK data really is a case of extreme GARBAGE IN – GARBAGE OUT

              Your pathetic attempts at avoiding basic facts with empty self-bravado is quite hilarious. A 5 year old could do better.

              Only troll here is YOU, vishy.

              That is your ONLY reason for being here.

              72

            • #
              Peter Fitzroy

              They have nothing, except bullying, and they are crap at even that

              17

        • #
          Lionell Griffith

          The raw data likely no longer exists. It took too much space and it costs too much to store it. So it was “lost” in a forest of repeated adjustments and endless paper shuffling.

          Cost too much? The cost of storage of data today is almost free <O.2 US cents per gig (Best Buy 10tb $179.99). Doing what the climate alarmists demand to be done will cost us our technological civilization and most of our lives. Apparently, these costs are less than almost free at trillions and counting. "After all it is only taxpayer money and there is always more where that came from…."

          As Everett Dirksen is reported to have once said (updated to account for inflation and government bloat): "A trillion here and a trillion there and pretty soon you're talking about real money."

          20

        • #
          Richard Ilfeld

          https://chiefio.wordpress.com has archived much of the worlds data by country in usable form.
          It is readily available. The uselessness of temperature measurements as passed to us is readily visible.

          10

      • #
        Bill in Oz

        It is hidden but it is there.
        Look here : http://www.bom.gov.au/climate/data/?ref=ftr
        You have to fill in the field one BOM station at a time.
        And there may be a full list of them online
        But I have not yet found it.
        Maybe Ken Stewart can tell us where BOM has hidden it.

        70

        • #
          Vishnu

          Oh for heavens sake – ring special services and tell them what you want. But I’m not sure they Neanderthal interpreter services.
          Bill face it – even if you get the data you’ll make an excuse that you can’t analyse it. CLassic timewaster client.

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        • #
          Lionell Griffith

          They call it data but is it the raw+meta data or simply a list of meaningless numbers? That information is doubly hidden in a jungle of individual requests.

          Considering the scientific trash they publish, I would place my bet that it is nothing but numbers they pretend is data. If so, even if you expended the effort to download it, all you would have is numeric garbage. It would be just as valid as using a random number generator.

          20

          • #
            AndyG55

            “It would be just as valid as using a random number generator.”

            But with a warming trend built in.

            You know.. Just like a climate model. :-)

            30

  • #
    David Maddison

    Apart from clear issues of unscientific data tampering, isn’t it also the case that BoM refuse to publish their methodology for establishing which data is “wrong” and which data needs to be “corrected” and by how much?

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    • #
      Graeme#4

      I’ve never seen a precise explanation of how the BOM homogenisers the temperature readings. I do recall seeing a comment that I believe came from the BOM, indicating that humans were involved in these adjustments. If humans are involved surely this would be a concern as then there would not appear to be a uniform methodology applied to these adjustments. I believe that Nick Stokes knows how the adjustments are made but I don’t believe he has revealed this information yet.

      90

    • #
      theRealUniverse

      Data tampering is totally unscientific. There is absolutely no reason to ‘tamper’ with past readings. The readings are the readings. If the instrument was wrong, its wrong. You cant use one site to ‘adjust’ another. There should be a huge complaint from the geophysics community over this. Where is it?

      80

      • #
        Lionell Griffith

        Why feed the goose when you can eat it and take the golden eggs too? Tomorrow? “Tomorrow we will all be dead. It’s today’s take that counts. Party hearty!”

        Cynical? Me? Expecting the worst out of government, academia, and society in general is the only sane position to take. Any thing else is fatal.

        There are makers, takers, and breakers. It is getting more and more difficult telling the difference between the takers and breakers. The makers are getting more and more rare. When the takers and breakers run out of things to take and break, it is over for everyone.

        20

  • #
    David Maddison

    One wonders if CO2 data is also “homogenised”. I’m not saying that there is anything unnatural about it changing although the only desirable direction for it to go in is up since the other direction leads to certain death of all plant life and thus all life.

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    • #
      theRealUniverse

      David, I suspect the same. The so called increase doesnt quite ring with the natural source sink models. CO2 levels are ocean temperature dependent more than anything else. Human contribution is supposed to be 4% of .4%. Something dont add up.

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  • #
    David Maddison

    To those BoM employees who secretly read this blog, don’t you feel guilty about what you’re doing? In any case, one day there’ll be a climate “Nuremberg Trials” where those found guilty of tampering with official records will be prosecuted and punished.

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  • #
    Ian George

    A classic case of the right hand not knowing what the left hand was doing was the homogenisation of Bourke’s max temp in Jan, 1939.
    Bourke had a max mean average of 40.4C and Cobar a MMA of 40.0C.
    ACORN1 temps for that period for Bourke was reduced to a MMA of 40.0C and Cobar went up to 40.1C.
    It appears that the person checking Bourke did so using Cobar temps and the one doing Cobar used Bourke temps.
    So a site with a higher av temp ended up cooler than another comparison site.

    Every daily temp for Bourke for that period was adjusted – temps above 30C were adjusted down (some by up to a degree), the two below 30C were adjusted up (by 0.1C).

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    • #

      Simple mistake for them to go to the wrong town and read the wrong thermometer. Just requires one of those multi dimensional tunnels to open up on the foot path to both screens. Not hard to understand then. Some cats seem to be able to do it at will.

      40

  • #

    [...] Nova on the relentless vandalisation of our weather records. Lots of things can muck up a perfect thermometer spot, like shade, new [...]

    10

  • #
    pat

    followup to comment #2 -

    not only did ABC and Guardian report Littleproud said “and we’re going to see 33,000 gigawatt of renewable energy put on in the next year or so”,
    The Australian did too:

    6 Oct: Australian: David Littleproud ‘totally’ accepts climate change leads to drought
    By Michael Roddan
    Drought Minister David Littleproud said he “totally” accepts climate change is leading to hotter days, meaning droughts and disrupted rainfalls, but has urged farmers to “get on with it” and “adapt as best they can” as the government reduces emissions…

    “And I think we’ve lived up to international commitments, and we’re going to see 33,000 gigawatt of renewable energy put on in the next year or so.”…
    https://www.theaustralian.com.au/nation/politics/david-littleproud-totally-accepts-climate-change-leads-to-drought/news-story/83353537ce42d2beba0f4f9cbd882e04

    however, note what he should have said, and the FakeNewsMSM should have fact-checked:

    4 Sept: TheRural: AAP: Fears energy investors will turn offshore
    by Rebecca Gredley
    Investors will turn offshore if Australia doesn’t implement a long-term energy policy or extend the target for renewables, the clean energy sector fears…

    Under the target, ***33,000 gigawatt-HOURS*** – or 23.5 per cent – of Australia’s electricity will come from renewable sources by 2020…
    https://www.therural.com.au/story/6365746/fears-energy-investors-will-turn-offshore/?cs=7

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    • #
      John of Cloverdale, WA, Australia

      Maybe I should send this to Littleproud.
      From a copy of an old(2003) brochure published by the National Museum of Australian:

      WHAT CAUSES DROUGHT?
      “The world’s climate system as a whole is an
      extremely complex mix of different sub-systems
      all interacting with each other on a wide range of
      time and space scales – the atmosphere, oceans,
      ice masses and the biosphere. The potential for
      variability from year to year is very high as there are
      several other contributing factors, such as sunspots
      and phases of the moon.
      Many scientists believe that human activities
      associated with the generation of ‘greenhouse gases’
      are causing climate change.
      This, however, does not cause drought as it has been
      experienced in Australia over thousands of years.
      Natural climate change in Australia is caused by two
      major elements – the changes in the pressure of air in
      the atmosphere circulating between Tahiti and Darwin
      (measured by the Southern Oscillation Index –
      SOI); and the temperature of currents moving across
      the equator from South America to the area to the
      north of Australia (known as the El Niño effect.”

      40

      • #
        theRealUniverse

        Yes. Well think about what a drought actually is. Its when there is no rain meaning the usual precipitation causing events dont occur regularly or delayed as pointed out in that statement.
        Droughts arent caused by hot weather! (as believed by MSM) Except of course if you are Vish or PF or 262..

        30

        • #
          Greg in NZ

          2003 ‘old’? It seems like yesterday! It’s the same year the Swedish messiah (PBUH) was born. Kid’s stuff.

          Wonder if the NMA still prints that [accurate] brochure, John, or if it’s been homogenised like the rest of modern ‘science’.

          00

  • #
    pat

    followup to comment #3 – read all:

    7 Oct: AFR: Exclusive: Qld to close coal-fired power station a decade early
    by Mark Ludlow
    The Queensland government will close one of its coal-fired power stations a decade earlier than planned as the electricity grid deals with the disruption of an influx of renewable energy projects.
    With federal Energy Minister Angus Taylor describing the early closure of coal-fired power stations as his “greatest fear” for the National Electricity Market, it can be revealed the 700 megawatt Callide B coal-fired power station will now close in 2028, instead of 2038-39 as originally planned.

    The move will make it easier for the Palaszczuk Labor government to reach its ambitious 50 per cent renewable energy target by 2030.
    But Queensland Energy Minister Anthony Lynham denied it was a political ploy for Callide B, which is near Biloela in Central Queensland, to close 10 years early.
    “The changes are about technical specifications, not government policy,” Dr Lynham said.
    Dr Lynham had previously admitted its fleet of coal-fired power stations would be squeezed out of the NEM by renewable energy projects, but not before 2030.

    The disclosure of the up-dated closure dates to the Australian Energy Market Operator comes as its attempts to get a better grip of a string of closures of coal-fired power stations over the next 15 years…

    “Pushing base-load generation out prematurely or without a plan for like-for-like replacement is very, very dangerous,” (federal Energy Minister Angus) Taylor told The Australian Financial Review.
    “We’ve seen it with Hazelwood [in Victoria in 2017]. We lost a big slab of supply from the market which put upwards pressure on prices and worsens reliability. It also makes the market less competitive.
    “It was disastrous and we can’t afford that to happen again.”…READ ALL
    https://www.afr.com/companies/energy/qld-to-close-coal-fired-power-station-a-decade-early-20191006-p52y19

    Daily Telegraph-4 Oct 2019
    EXCLUSIVE: A decision to approve a significant NSW mine extension was published and then revoked within hours on Friday in a massive bureaucratic bungle by the state’s Independent Planning Commission… put it in the bank before investing it in NSW because planning decisions were being made by unelected “chardonnay economists” in the IPC… The Rix’s Creek mine extension has been in the planning system for six years…

    51

    • #
      pat

      headline of Daily Tele article shoud read:

      Shafted: Mine approval reversed within hours

      and includes this shortened excerpt about bosses telling workers their jobs were safe:

      of operations seeking a 21-year extension and told 300 workers their jobs were secure on Friday — before the planning body revealed two hours the approval was a mistake…

      61

    • #
      Serp

      Since when did a notional renewables target become the preeminent goal of Palachook’s administration?

      Why not shut down all the coal fired power stations and become a world leader in the deployment of not fit for purpose electricity generators at a near one hundred percent?

      40

  • #
    pat

    further followup to comment #3 – as Chris Kenny’s article has now been placed behind a paywall. it was brilliant throughout and I wish I’d copies all of it. anyway, here’s another couple of paras I did save:

    Kenny: As this was discussed last month at the climate summit, former ACTU secretary Sharan Burrow was there to endorse the approach, saying: “We are going to have to re-create some of the basis on which the world does business.” But strangely, when it comes to the SDGs, it is not only big unions and bureaucracies that play along with the UN agenda but big business too.

    Adherence to the SDGs has become part of the contemporary push for “corporate social responsibility” that is enforced by the stock exchange guidelines, advocated through the powerful shareholder lobbying of union-dominated superannuation funds and pushed along by a range of online slacktivist groups…

    Kenny goes on to praise Scott Morrison’s “sovereignty speech”; however, bear in mind Australia seems to have just attended The Commonwealth’s London confererence, “COMMON EARTH” – see comment #33 on Jo’s Weekend Unthreaded – which is all about the SDGs.

    interesting how the entire CorruptFakeNewsMSM has ignored this conference altogether. don’t want the public knowing about the phony promises being made to keep small States on side with this almighty CAGW/SDG scam. “Game on!” indeed:

    4 Oct: TheCommonwealth: Game on! Commonwealth steps up battle on climate change with regenerative solutions model
    The Commonwealth has launched a regenerative climate change model that marries the ancient wisdom of indigenous groups with emerging innovations, technologies and scientific approaches.
    Common Earth, is the programme that will create a network of projects that could be replicated and adapted to any community, country or region.

    Government officials, environmentalists, scientists, economists, and representatives from indigenous groups from around the Commonwealth met at the organisation’s headquarters in London to discuss how the initiative can achieve sustainable development whilst protecting the planet.

    “It is not game over in the battle against climate change its game on,” said Secretary-General Patricia Scotland. “Because this about looking at practical, existing strategies to clean streams, restore forests and damaged ecosystems, protect marine health, educate our populations and challenge the economic and development approaches that led to the decline of our planet.

    “It is about a development model that takes into account the ancient wisdom of the indigenous peoples that found a way to live in harmony with their environments, and integrates it into our scientific advances and solutions to climate change. And it is a model I will take to ministers in our upcoming trade and finance summits and heads of governments at their meeting next year.”

    Common Earth, she added, will be based on regenerative economic models. Economist Stuart Cowan explained how these types of economies will work…

    The Common Earth project will be hinged on the activities of five working groups:
    •the ‘Commonwealth Small State, Climate Change Blue-Green Trade Working Group’;
    •the ‘Gender and Climate Change Working Group’;
    •the ‘Indigenous Affairs Working Group’;
    •the ‘Waters Prosperity Working Group’;
    •the ‘Regenerative Finance Working Group’.

    Rola Khoury, CEO of the Common Earth implementation partner the Cloudburst Foundation, said: “The Common Earth Commonwealth Regenerative Development Convening was an unprecedented meeting between scientists, regenerative and drawdown practitioners, and diverse communities including many youth and indigenous peoples who came to discuss the importance of integrated climate action to restore ecosystems and communities…
    https://thecommonwealth.org/media/news/game-commonwealth-steps-battle-climate-change-regenerative-solutions-model

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    • #
      Graeme No.3

      Thaks pat, but I think I will wait for the translation into english.

      60

    • #
      theRealUniverse

      “COMMON EARTH” = COMMON PURPOSE! These people are dangerous.
      ‘Commonwealth Small State, Climate Change Blue-Green Trade Working Group’;
      ‘Gender and Climate Change Working Group’;
      We know what these mean..mix it all up..one world ‘agenda’ of total control.

      100

    • #
      Serp

      Lord spare us the rebadging of stone age technological ignorance as “ancient wisdom of indigenous groups”.

      60

  • #
    • #
      tom0mason

      Graeme No.3 and gee aye,

      From the second link to the notalotofpeopleknowthat·wordpress·com report is the link to the first link at mol·tropmet·res·in address, and in that article they reference — “Ref: Singh, D., S. Ghosh, M. K. Roxy and S. McDermid, 2019: Indian summer monsoon: Extreme events, historical changes, and role of anthropogenic forcings. WIREs Clim Change. 2019;10:e571, doi:10.1002/wcc.571.

      And a quick search shows document ‘doi:10.1002/wcc.571′ to be at here at https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1002/wcc.571 where, if you are signed up to Wiley Online Library, you can read all about their data and methods.

      30

  • #
    gee aye

    are the links to the supporting data somewhere? I can’t see them.

    17

  • #
    theRealUniverse

    The other thing to consider is that the temperature of the ‘near ground’ atmosphere is local to that particular site for many reasons, including bad sites. It has no impact on any other location.
    The near ground thermometer readings in my view are totally worthless.

    90

  • #
    pat

    why are UK Times and their science reporter hounding anyone over their investments in fossil fuels?

    behind paywall:

    6 Oct: UK Times: Royal Society urged to ditch £16m fossil-fuel investment
    by Jonathan Leake, Science Editor
    The Royal Society, Britain’s leading science organisation and publisher of many doom-laden reports on the impact of climate change, has millions of pounds invested in fossil-fuel companies.
    The revelation may shock members, many of whose careers are devoted to researching climate change, which is linked to emissions from coal, oil and gas.

    The assets emerged after a study by Scientists for Global Responsibility (SGR) into the investment policies of science and engineering societies. The Royal Society at first told SGR only that its investment funds totalled £270m but declined to give details.
    However, after inquiries from The Sunday Times, the Royal Society confirmed that at least £16m was invested in oil and gas companies. The final figure could be much higher once all money held…
    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/news/royal-society-urged-to-ditch-16m-fossil-fuel-investment-drw89t35f

    where are reports of XR arrests & potential jail times for attacking The
    Treasury?

    how come the following is being promoted by the CorruptFakeNewsMSM and likely to go ahead in some form or other…UNLESS it has the FULL SEAL OF APPROVAL OF THE ESTABLISHMENT?

    7 Oct: Extinction Rebellion: fresh protests to ‘shut down’ Westminster
    Environmental activists plan to blockade roads in the centre of government for two weeks
    by Damien Gayle
    Environmental activists from around Britain are set to swoop on Westminster on Monday morning in an attempt to “shut down” the heart of government with two weeks of disruptive protests.
    Extinction Rebellion (XR) said its members are planning to blockade “every single road” into the central London district and plan to maintain the protests for at least 14 days, or until their demands are met.

    Each site will be taken by groups of activists from different regions of the UK or with different political priorities. Activists will stop traffic from around 9am onwards at 12 different sites around parliament, including Trafalgar Square, Horse Guards Parade, the Mall, Victoria Street, and Westminster and Vauxhall bridges, among others.
    Throughout the week activists plan to take action around Westminster at government departments, to blockade Smithfield market, then later move on to London City airport, where they intend to stage a three-day protest…

    Metropolitan police commanders – after coming under fire for not ending those protests sooner – have said they are planning to be more proactive and agile in their response.
    However, the activists believe their decentralised command structures and weight of numbers will overwhelm the police response. “Everyone will be like water and move to more disruptive locations if [police] don’t let them take the sites,” one told the Guardian.
    Activists have also been instructed to refuse bail when arrested, in the hope they can fill up all of the Met’s holding cells and prevent police from making more arrests…
    https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2019/oct/06/extinction-rebellion-fresh-protests-shut-down-westminster

    40

    • #
      Greg in NZ

      Nought to do with VIC nor TAS, yet the phrases ‘carbon farming’ and ‘rich-listers’ sound as dodgy as ‘homogenisation’ hypocrisy:
      “New Zealand Carbon Farming [is] a supplier of bulk carbon credits to large energy and oil companies”.

      https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/in-depth/400417/green-rush-foreign-forestry-companies-nz-s-biggest-landowners

      “The four largest private landowners in New Zealand are all foreign-owned forestry companies, an RNZ investigation has found”.
      No.1 Canadian
      No.2 Malaysian
      No.3 Australian
      No.4 USA

      The “Labour-led government has actively encouraged further foreign purchases of land for forestry through a stream-lined ‘special forestry test’”. Selling the land to kill the soil by planting pinus radiata to ‘save the planet’? Baaaaaaa…

      50

      • #
        Another Ian

        A local discovery re carbon credits

        An on-property burial apparently was refused because it was in a carbon credits deal.

        40

        • #
          Greg in NZ

          Surely the extra ‘carbon’ – minimal though it may be – would be a bonus to the squillionaire investors?

          Oops, how un-woke of me: I meant the green, concerned, moral, doing-their-part-to-save-the-planet, foreign/global, steenking rich investors believers. Jacinda’s sworn enemies are now her bestest friends since they re-branded themselves. It’s not about the money – it’s the moral of it – da da da.

          30

      • #
        theRealUniverse

        “The four largest private landowners in New Zealand are all foreign-owned forestry companies,”
        I think thats been true for a while, remember NZ was sold off in the 90s and before, you know R Douglass esq..remember him?

        20

        • #
          Greg in NZ

          He whom they named the Roger Award after – for the Worst Transnational Corporation Operating in New Zealand?

          Living overseas for all the 1980s I missed out on the neo-liberal sell-off/take-over of our once sleepy little isles. At least Stinky Rebels can get a decent covfefe in the country now, all thanks to Woger Wall Street. They gave him a knighthood for his ‘services’ – scum.

          30

  • #
    Peter Fitzroy

    Gosh, let’s beat the drum again – Boom boom Bom Bom Bad Bad

    Did anyone else look at the methodology, apart from me?

    http://www.bom.gov.au/research/publications/researchreports/BRR-032.pdf

    Double dare you to read it.

    Remember we are discussing homogenisation for climate, the original records are kept and the ACORN and ADAM datasets are those adjusted (ADAM is to fill in missing data, or to correct for bad measurements, like missing a decimal point etc)

    /Conflating climate and weather is not sciency

    212

    • #
      Bill in Oz

      Read it Fitz !
      It’s crap !
      I quote from the preface to give an example of the crap:
      “To be able to monitor climate on long-term timescales, it is necessary to have datasets where the
      observations reflect changes in the underlying climate, ”
      Woopppps
      They have got the logic back to front Fitz !
      It’s the cart before the horse Fitz !
      They are changing the Observations to fit
      Their already existing Climate warming belief.
      Now that is ‘scientific garbage “

      160

      • #
        Peter Fitzroy

        Better tell them, not me. I think that what they have written makes sense. The data is a tool to analyse climate and its changes. It is not weather, and it is not the raw data. You select the right tool for the job, or is it that you just use a hammer on everything?

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        • #
          AndyG55

          “The data is a tool to analyse climate and its changes. “

          And the ACORN data and all the UNFIT urban warmed sites used to “adjust” it,

          makes it TOTALLY UNFIT for that purpose.

          “It is not weather and it is not the raw data”

          Probably the dopiest thing you have ever said.

          PF is now saying that temperatures are no longer an indication of weather.. WOW !!!

          You know the final BOM creation is nothing more than a fabricated, mutilated, mal-adjusted load of donkey droppings.

          Just the sort of stuff you would swallow whole, without a rational thought in your empty skull.

          Yes the data , after BOM has had its way, is ONLY fit for “climate change” propaganda.

          Glad you have finally admitted that.

          81

        • #
          Michael262

          Peter,
          You know damn well they’ve tried to ‘tell them’ only to be told their’ papers don’t pass basic reviews.
          So, after much muttering about the climate cabal, they head off back to the men’s shed.

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        • #
          Fred Streeter

          is it that you just use a hammer on everything?

          Don’t be foolish.

          One uses a screwdriver and a hammer.
          Otherwise, how could one make holes?

          30

      • #

        The logic is that because you should have something, therefore you do have something. Because they want to monitor climate climate on long-term timescales therefore they can. It’s a bit like the assumption that wind power is a good idea because “something” must be done. They want effective renewables, therefore they have effective renewables. (It’s then just a matter of racking the data till it sees reason.)

        Of course, they don’t want to monitor long-term climate, just politicize it, hence the clumsy nonsense of homogenization. But even with good faith, they certainly do not have the means. Ballpark is all you can get with old min/max, and it’s not much of a ballpark.

        Best available data is not adequate data. In fact, only adequate data can be adequate. This principle should be obvious, but it is skirted constantly by the Publish-then-Perish industry.

        40

      • #
        Graeme#4

        Dunno if it’s crap Bill. However, I can make the following observations:
        1. It appears that there is a LOT of human intervention in homegenising the temp data. I’m presuming that this human intervention process is not fully documented in a quality way, because if it was, the wording in this document would conform to accepted ISO 9000 practices. It clearly doesn’t.
        2. The algorithms used are mentioned but not documented. The only reference is to a scientific paper. Again, this is not acceptable quality practice.
        3. Apparently there was a rounding error in Acorn-Sat 1 that I would class as significant because it seems to have created errors at a number of data process steps. It seems to be disregarded by BOM but again, no indication of any study of its significance.
        4. The methods used to determine whether the use of a new site, new screen or automated data gathering seems to be very variable and again, dependent a lot on human (undocumented?) decisions
        5. Not sure why Python was chosen as a suitable program for processing large amounts of data. It seems to hint that the BOM folks don’t have qualified software coding folks on their staff. Apparently earlier code was in Fortran.
        Have to leave it to others to comment on the stats methods used.

        10

    • #
      AndyG55

      That sound is YOU banging your head on the top of your troll-hole as you do your Noddy act.

      ACORN is totally USELESS for anything except climate propaganda.

      Smearing large urban heat effects over vast regions,

      Filling in CRAP data from CRAP sites.

      Adjusting what small amount of potentially reasonable data using the worst affected data they can find.

      I know you worship crap data and propaganda, because it coincides with your truthimess.

      But most of here are far more scientifically rational that you are ever capable of being.

      /conflating garbage with data is very PF’y

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        Peter Fitzroy

        Alright Andy – have you 700+ locations which fit your model for weather stations. Do you have a method for filling in missing data? UHI – are you going to tell residents in cities that its not that hot, as your perfectly placed weather station is showing that it is comfy temp wise.

        /in a perfect world

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        • #
          AndyG55

          You poor thing,

          DESPERATE to accept any CORRUPTED and meaningless data that would help you to maintain your HATRED.

          Only warming in Australia has been from smeared urban heat.

          You KNOW that, just too hard for you to ADMIT it.

          Poor PF, hates truth as much as he hates CO2.

          83

          • #
            Peter Fitzroy

            So you compalian, but have nothing else. Since that is your logic, then by that selfsame logic, these site are OK and so are their measurements

            110

            • #
              AndyG55

              PF puts his fingers his ears and closed tight his eyes and goes “La-la-la”

              This is his normal method of coping with FACTS.

              Pitiful PF, you have been shown that

              a large proportion of sites are NO USE for anything,

              especially not REAL climate trends.

              But you cannot let that FACT into you little brain-washed mind, can you PF.

              The more garbage the data, the easier to fool the gullible AGW worshipers.

              62

              • #
                Peter Fitzroy

                So give me your list, or STFU

                16

              • #
                AndyG55

                Still waiting for some science from you regarding CO2 warming, PF

                EMPTY followed by more EMPTY.

                Meanwhile, that list of FAILED BOM sites is just getting longer and longer

                /PF can’t face facts.

                30

    • #
      Bob Fernley-Jones

      Peter,

      Yes, I’ve indeed read ‘The Second Book of Trewin’ that you cite and have compared it exhaustively with ‘The First Book of Trewin’, namely:

      https://cawcr.gov.au/technical-reports/CTR_049.pdf authored by him in 2012.

      They are not much different that I can see and I’m unable to find any differences that explain the big changes in some data between ACORN-SAT versions 1 & 2. Perhaps you can help me out in this. I need your help please.

      Just as with The Holy Bible, the dominant books only have one author, whereas proper scientific papers in peer reviewed journals are typically et al. I wonder why that is so, and perhaps you could elaborate on that too?

      90

    • #
      Phoenix44

      Of course we’ve looked at the methodology. But the basic premise us flawed.

      Averages are used to average out errors. If we assume the errors are random, thus over a large number of sites and measuremens thevertirs will average out. So no need to homogenise. If you properly adjust random errors there should be little or no difference in your averages. If there are differences, then either you are doing it wrong or your errors are not random.

      If you have non-randoml errors then you should fix them proprrky, either by not using data or working out whst the systematic fix is. So no need to homogenise.

      Homogenisation is garbage idea used by people who don’t understand his ears works.

      50

    • #
      Ian George

      Peter
      I have read the link you posted.
      Please look at my post at #20. There’s no way that each day could be adjusted under the set of reasons the BoM give.

      And why has every annual mean from at least 2000 to 2017 been adjusted upwards?

      60

    • #
      Fred Streeter

      Double dare you to read it.

      Interesting. OK for attempting to blend the past and present. To what end, though? Just estimates.

      Had we been aware that our economies depended upon accurate daily readings, we would have installed 3 identically calibrated thermometers at each site.

      Any moves to do so now? It would cost a bit more, but consider the savings:
      - Inconsistencies between each site’s 3 readings identified immediately;
      - Fewer pointless papers on temperature homogenisation.

      10

    • #
      Fred Streeter

      Gives me little faith in their programming ability.

      The version 1 code used the Fortran anint function, but it was later found that this function, as implemented, automatically rounds values ending in 0.5 down to the nearest integer.

      Later found! Likely it was discovered when they compared the output of Fortran V1 with Python V2.

      As implemented means “We didn’t implement ANINT correctly.”

      This affects numerous adjustment transfer functions

      So when testing (if at all) the consolidation of station temperatures, they did not test the code providing the input data! GIGO.

      And had they not changed their preferred programming language from antique Fortran 77, the bug would have sat there forever.

      In version 2, data are retained at full precision throughout the process, removing any need for rounding during internal calculations.

      Yeah. Python kinda makes you do that. Best Practice does too.

      20

  • #
    pat

    6 Oct: UK Telegraph: Woke protesters aren’t progressive – they want to take us back to the stone age
    By Julie Burchill
    Woke-taunters (amongst whom I proudly include myself) have largely swallowed the line which the special snowflakes themselves like to propagate; that they are rebels with many causes, each one more daring and progressive than the last. Having been of a rebellious bent all my life, this never sat well with me. The more you examine what The Woken want, the more they emerge as reactionaries rather than rebels.

    The yearning for a less enlightened world infests the woke rainbow. It takes in transgender activists who claim that lesbianism is transphobic and that sportswomen should accept second place to competitors who were born male, fauxminists who believe that a permanent underclass of prostituted women is acceptable and that wearing a hijab is subversive, American antifas and Corbynite clowns who repeat ancient anti-Semitic tropes. But it can be seen most shamelessly in those of the Green stripe.

    When Extinction Rebellion sprayed, or at least attempted to spray, thousands of litres of fake blood over the Treasury building this week – after the Treasury quite rightly stated that Britain is well to the forefront of action against climate change – this rag-bag of flora and fauna fetishists demonstrated admirably the childish sense of entitled rage that fuels their tantrums. (Unlike the privately-owned fire-engine they sprayed it from, which is fuelled by diesel.)

    “The Treasury has been frustrating efforts by other government departments to take action against climate change because it cares only about economic growth,” one of them said. As though any civilised society could exist without economic growth! But extreme Greens have no time for civilised societies. They want us to go back to the land, toiling in back-breaking jobs, suffering pain without the relief of Big Pharma, old at thirty and dead at forty.

    The latest fad in this race to barbarism is the concept of “rewilding” which has recently been crow-barred into The Archers. At first it struck me as totally unfeasible that a conservative-minded old lady would give half a million pounds to such a right-on reimagining of the Ambridge landscape. But rewilding is an attempt to literally go back in time, to when pesky people and their petty desires to have a decent standard of living caused human habitats to blight the landscape…

    Hearing the over-privileged and under-productive half-wits of Extinction Rebellion talk about economic growth as if it was child abuse, you can sense real contempt towards people who believe that working at a job in order to make money and pay the taxes which keep society civil is a desirable thing to do. But perhaps this is understandable when you consider that no protest movement has ever featured so many double-barrelled names or Instagram skiing trips, while demonising air travel for the masses. They need a song – the civil rights marchers had We Shall Overcome and the Vietnam War opponents had The Fixin’ To Die Rag – so may I suggest the Noel Coward number Why Do The Wrong People Travel?…

    At the risk of being alarmist – it’s catching – I found it fitting that the red paint doubled back and covered the idiot protesters at one point.
    Because the blood of all those who die in the fetid swamp of a pre-industrial society will be on their hands if they ever succeed in the rewilding of society – with all the savagery that the word implies
    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2019/10/06/woke-protesters-arent-progressive-want-take-us-back-stone/

    50

    • #
      pat

      Juie Burchill suggests a song for the XR protesters – Noel Coward’s “Why Do The Wrong People Travel?”

      following is not recommended listening, but a whopping 20-plus minutes of a taxpayer-funded ABC staffer, Suzanne, talking to a taxpayer-funded ABC Radio Program Director Sydney staff, Jen (? full name can’t be confirmed online) who is on vacation in Matera, Italy with a husband, cousin, daugher (at minimum), where the peasants were thrown out in the 50s so the place could be gentrified, tho that isn’t how the ABC-er describes it. plenty about the scourge of tourists in Italy – no self reflection.

      3h14min to 3h35sec: Suzanne: how’s the weather been? Jen(?): absolutely perfect (oops) but friend in Rome said it’s been UNSEASONABLY WARM. we have our jumpers on today. but it’s been absoutey amazing. 24C and sunny every day. doubt it will hold out by the time they reach the Amalfi coast where her cousin and daughter want to swim. it will be too cold for the program director. Suzanne puts Matera it on her bucket list for when she next time she goes back to Italy.

      6 Oct: ABC Nightlife: featuring Che Guevara
      Presenter: Suzanne Hill
      How did a middle class medical student from Argentina become the revolutionary Che Guevara? You’ll hear the story in This Week in History.
      https://www.abc.net.au/radio/programs/nightlife/nightlife/11558848

      20

      • #
        pat

        perfect spot for theirABC. perhaps they could move their HQ there?

        Wikipedia: Matera: In the 1950s, as part of a policy to clear the extreme poverty of the Sassi, the government of Italy used force to relocate most of the population of the Sassi to new public housing in the developing modern city…
        On 17 October 2014, Matera was declared European Capital of Culture for 2019…

        2017: Guardian: The miracle of Matera: from city of poverty and squalor to hip hub for cave-dwellers
        One of Italy’s most deprived cities – so lacking hope that God was said to keep well away – is now an Airbnb hotspot and set to be European capital of culture
        by Angela Guiffrida in Matera
        Less than 70 years ago some 15,000 people, mostly peasants and farmers, were still living in grottoes carved out of limestone that dated back to Matera’s prehistoric era…
        With money pouring in from the postwar Marshall plan, Gasperi put together what was initially considered an ill-conceived plan to evacuate all the inhabitants and move them to newly built homes in the outer areas of the Sassi…

        “Some people were OK with it but most weren’t,” said Taddonio. “It was the moment the connection with the Sassi was lost. They didn’t know where to put their mules, and after so long living in such close proximity to other families, a certain level of solidarity was lost.”
        But the period also marked the beginning of an evolution that over the following decades saw the Sassi host artists, hippies and major film productions, and eventually become a Unesco world heritage site…

        The government encouraged the Sassi’s revival by subsidising restoration work. Artisans moved in, setting up workshops, while bars, restaurants and boutique hotels started to spring up…
        The Airbnb phenomenon is currently the subject of fierce controversy in Italy, criticised for a “Disneyfication” effect on Italian cities such as Florence and Venice. Locals have complained about being pushed out and say the souls of historic centres are being threatened…
        And while Matera now draws in some 600,000 visitors a year, it hasn’t yet suffered the same stampede inflicted on the more traditional Italian hotspots…

        “We don’t want to be like Venice and Florence. We want to keep the number of tourists sustainable, but [maintain] good quality.”…
        https://www.theguardian.com/world/2017/jun/17/matera-italy-culture-capital-cave-homes-from-squalor-to-airbnb-film-sets

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  • #

    Remember: not only is a “national Australian temperature” a silly statistic for all the usual reasons that stats are silly and a few extra…

    Any warming apparent in recent decades or even centuries is utterly trivial. Not because it is slight (which it is, if real) but because it does not matter. Flip a coin, and you can only get heads or tails. Follow the temperature of a body and you can only get warmer or cooler.

    That’s right. It is impossible for the earth not to warm when it is not cooling. So we are being drawn into an argument over a trivial coin toss resulting in a trivial result.

    If it could be proven that this interglacial has exceeded the previous one in warmth, that too would be trivial. (In fact, the Eemian was hotter by all evidence.)

    If it could be proven that this is the warmest part of our present interglacial it would be not-so-trivial, so late in the Holocene. But this is not the warmest part of the last 11700 years, not by a long shot.

    Of course, the fact that we can only find evidence of settled/built communities within our brief interglacial should be a concern. Humans are condemned to spend about 80% of their time in conditions cooler than those of the last 11700 years and we’ve only tried this non-nomadic gig since the end of the Younger Dryas. (You can take your chances with a bolide or Lake Toba scale eruption, however your interglacial has to wind down in the medium term as night has to follow day.)

    But talk of actual climate change could really steal some dreams and some childhoods. Shame on me!

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  • #
    Ronald Bruce

    In my opinion the BOM has far less than zero credibility, it would appear they have succumbed to the Socialist green climate emergency scam, therefore anything that comes from the BOM is to be disregarded.

    70

    • #
      el gordo

      BoM is a well respected institution, corrupted by outliers, it will require an Audit and Royal Commission to rid the place of green slime.

      70

      • #
        Dennis

        Ask why a majority of the Prime Minister Abbott Cabinet voted against an independent audit of the BoM following complaints and evidence from private sector sources were tabled by the Minister responsible for the BoM?

        That was 2014 and in 2015 PM Abbott was replaced by PM Turnbull by a small margin of Liberal MP votes. And the then Turnbull Government signed and ratified the UN IPCC Paris Agreement in April and November 2016.

        60

    • #
      Peter Fitzroy

      Absolute tosh – you just don’t like facts that contradict your tenuous world view

      /If being a socialist means respecting your environment – colour me green and give me a daisy

      216

      • #
        AndyG55

        you just don’t like facts that contradict your tenuous world view”

        From you, that is the height of IRONY…

        FACT is that a large proportion of BOM sites are just plain GARBAGE, often literally.

        Close your eyes, fingers in your ears and go “la-la-la”, PF. (pity you don’t also gaff-tape your mouth.)

        Sadly, that is your only way of coping with that reality.

        REALITY is that the BOM creation is an extreme case of GI-GO

        71

      • #
        Dennis

        “I will not stand for socialism masquerading as environmentalism”

        Prime Minister Tony Abbott

        2014

        110

        • #
          Peter Fitzroy

          Yep use the environment as a dump, like all capitalist free riders do, and then put their hands on their hearts (maybe their wallets) and declare “I’m no socialist”. Must be fun at meal times, with everyone grabbing what the want, and kicking the rest on the floor. Oh wait, that is McDonalds

          /Free Riders are all right wingers

          015

          • #
            theRealUniverse

            You forgot something…/Free Riders are all right winger lefty eco loons

            80

            • #
              • #
                Fred Streeter

                But I have first hand experience of Leftie Free Loaders. Relatives who were Art students and their ex-student friends.

                I have had them living under my roof, have fed (and occasionaly clothed) them.

                And had them sneer at me for working in an office.

                Still unemployed, still scrounging.
                Anything rather than the horror of working.

                But they are ecologically friendly.

                50

              • #
                AndyG55

                The denial is all yours PF

                21

          • #
            AndyG55

            You mean the DUMP of toxic materials in China from manufacture of wind turbines and solar panels, Don’t you PF

            Very little comes from COAL fired power that isn’t either used by ALL LIFE ON EARTH

            or that can be and is used in the built environment.

            Look around you, little child, basically EVERYTHING is their because of coal or petroleum.

            But that’s right, you HATE everything around you, don’t you, PF

            That HATE emanates from one place.. YOU. !!

            That is why you come here.. to spread your hate.

            Sorry, but we LAUGHING instead. ;-)

            But wind and solar get the “free ride” for all their environmental damage, don’t they PF.

            40

          • #
            Latus Dextro

            /Free Riders are all right wingers

            Triggered, so, you’ve finally retreated to your predictable safe space.

            The Left murdered 100 million in the 20th Century and seem poised and willing to repeat that success in the name of globalism.
            A ragged bunch of free-loading eco-sociopaths surrounded by an array of failed and failing economies spurred on by the morally and intellectually bankrupt, unoriginal and failed ideology of neo-Marxism.

            00

      • #
        AndyG55

        “respecting your environment”

        But you DON’T respect anything to do with the environment, PF !!

        You HATE the very gas that GIVES LIFE to all life on Earth.

        You want plant life to continue to exist on meagre, near starvation levels.

        You worship renewables which are far worse for the environment than coal or gas.

        You HATE the whole built environment that sustains and surrounds you.

        But mostly, you hate yourself,

        … which is why you continue to come here.

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      • #
        Bill in Oz

        Bull,
        Your goddamned ‘Socialists’ polluted the environment
        When they ruled,
        Far worse than any where else
        Because they were ‘dictatorships of the bloody proletariat’
        Unaccountable to ordinary people.
        Now without those petty Socialist dictators
        They environment is being looked after.

        30

  • #
    Zane

    The innocuous old thermometer has been weaponized by Big Climate in the war on the West by green neo-Marxist proxies.

    40

  • #
    Zane

    Data has become politicised. Data ain’t data anymore.

    50

  • #
    Geoffrey Williams

    Someday, sooner or later these people who are falsifying our temperature data will have to be held to account. It may take many years but it has to happen.
    GeoffW

    90

    • #
      • #
        Greg in NZ

        Hope so, David, because I heard some young banshee on the radio shriek we’ve only got eleven years left!

        She yelled this into a reporter’s mic while self-superglued to a building in our capital. And apparently I – and most of us here – are now climate ‘criminals’. It’ll be quite a learning carve for these young delusionals when they realise they’ve been scammed – by rich old white men. That is, if they ever get a chance to grow up. Eleven years and counting…

        140

        • #
          OriginalSteve

          Ah…the mystical 2030 of UN mythology…..

          11 years good, 12 years baaaaaddd….

          I wonder if these climate clowns knew how ignorant they look, would they really keep doing it? Youd have to be supremely ignorant or completely brainwashed….maybe both.

          I recallwatching a tv show where Darren ( someone ) the famous hypnotist showed he could brainwash someone who was highly suggestable into literally becoming an assassin ( manchurian candidate) , so its possible….

          40

        • #
          Latus Dextro

          Exactly. Eleven years to 2030 and the expedition of the UN toxic Transformational Agenda among an array of other unsanctioned persecutions.
          Saved by the damned bell.
          5years and we’re well into a Grand Solar Minimum with plummeting food production, severe power impoverishment and cold related deaths. Global carnage foisted on the unprepared by the Green Death Cult.
          The end of them, the UN Climatism Cult and a beginning of the great purge, restoration of science and reinvention of the University.

          Little wonder then at the current level of demented hysteria.

          10

      • #
        el gordo

        David a hindcast would be appreciated, back to the RWP.

        30

    • #
      Peter Fitzroy

      And what do expect this “held to account” to show?
      Their methods are published and are reviewed by other meteorological experts
      All the data, both raw and adjusted is available
      All their maintenance and calibration details are published

      SO again, what do you want to find out – that they have cream biscuits with their morning tea?

      /I do like a cream biscuit

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      • #
        AndyG55

        Seems PF doesn’t understand the methodology at all.

        It is DESIGNED to allow the smearing of urban heat over large areas.

        It is actually a very-unscientific methodology

        (Comprehension of science and maths are at the bottom of PF’s can do list)

        It has also been shown that there are MANY unwarranted changes and much fabrication of data, ALL of which is used to push the AGW agenda.

        You have yet again proven yourself to be wilfully clueless about what is actually going on

        /PF, blind and will not see. goes la-la-la

        81

      • #
        PeterS

        A quote from Al Capone: “Public service is my motto.” Was never ashamed to be “held to account”. Eventually though the game was up. The CAGW scam will have a similar ending.

        30

        • #
          Peter Fitzroy

          Ah, the climate is not pay its taxes!

          /data is data it is neither good or bad.
          /data does not kill people, climate change does

          112

          • #
            AndyG55

            “data is data it is neither good or bad”

            DENIAL that a large proportion of BOM data is basically CRAP.

            Just go “la-la-la” PF.. its what you do.

            Dishonest, even to yourself

            FACE FACTS for once in your insipid life !!

            62

          • #
            AndyG55

            “data does not kill people, climate change does”

            And PF drops back into his hallucinogenic chicken-little nightmare state.

            So funny. :-)

            No-one has died from “climate change”

            (except those denied cheap electricity because of the “climate change” agenda)

            Heck you can’t even tell us of any scientifically provable human linked changes in climate at all in the last 40 years.

            Lots of FANTASIES, lots of DELUSIONAL ranting

            But evidence

            EMPTY as always.

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          • #
            Fred Streeter

            /data does not kill people
            People’s interpretation of data, however, does.

            climate change does
            Depriving people of reliable energy certainly does.
            Belief in cAGW probably will.

            40

          • #
            OriginalSteve

            Patricia, humour me….exactly how have you observed climate change killing people?

            You must have a huge list….

            Waiting…

            30

          • #
            PeterS

            Guns do not murder people, people do using the guns in a corrupted and evil manner. Climate change data do not kill people, people do using the data in a corrupted and evil manner.

            00

      • #
        AndyG55

        You KNOW the whole “adjustment” farce its DISHONEST and UN-SCIENTIFIC.

        Otherwise you wouldn’t be supporting it so hard.

        You KNOW that dishonesty and anti-science is all the AGW meme has left.

        You feel a deep-seated link to it.

        80

        • #
          Peter Fitzroy

          Show me your list of perfect sites, come on Andy you know you want to

          /brings nothing to the table, adds nothing to the discussion, but, by god, he can be shouty

          111

          • #
            AndyG55

            Yep we know you add NOTHING to the discussion, PF

            That is why you are here.. to add nothing.

            You have been shown many times that a large proportion of BOM sites are NOT FIT FOR PURPOSE

            Stop your childish DENIAL, PF

            /PF cannot accept FACTS !!

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      • #
        theRealUniverse

        And what do expect this “held to account” to show? That globull warming is just that a huge scientific and (mostly) political SCAM.

        70

        • #
          Peter Fitzroy

          Then every weather reporting organisation, all of the academies, all of the satellites are wrong?

          Show me how it is a scam, what is the payoff?

          /shouty shouty truthiness.

          19

          • #
            AndyG55

            There is massive evidence that a large proportion of BOM sites are UNFIT for any purpose.

            Just close your eyes in manic denial. Its all you can do.

            /PF = ZERO truth, ZERO evidence.

            51

          • #
            theRealUniverse

            ‘all of the satellites are wrong?’ No PF, the satellites are right, its just that they show there is NO ‘globull warming’ unfortunately for you alarmists.
            ‘what is the payoff?’
            The payoff is obvious, elimination of hydrocarbon fuels and wealth redistribution, if you bothered to follow the scam where it follows the money from the 90s. But that probably in the too hard basket is it?
            Please provide proof that CO2 causes catastrophic globull warming, we’ve been waiting for a month….

            30

            • #
              AndyG55

              “we’ve been waiting for a month”

              More like 2-3 years !

              PF is totally inept at backing up anything he gibbers about, and will not be able to comply with any requests for actual science.

              He did actually agree that he couldn’t find any real scientific evidence that increased CO2 causes warming

              Then he confirmed with several links, that this mythical CO2 warming exist ONLY in models and propaganda web sites.

              He also agreed with us that there is no human linked climate change in the last 40 years.

              We are now working getting to the face the fact that the surface temperature sites are a load of urban affected garbage, that is USED to create trends all over the place, even at sites where the data shown cooling or no trend.

              But his brain-washing is so complete, that his mind is now just a sort of greenie sludge which is totally unreceptive to any actual real data and facts.

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      • #
        Geoffrey Williams

        Fitzboy please go away and play with yourself, or find something else to do, but don’t come to this site just to be argumentive.
        GeoffW

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    Phoenix44

    There are two types of errors in data – random and systematic. If we are averaging large amounts of data with random errors (both lots of places measured and measured lots of times) then random errors will average out. Thus there is no need to adjust data forcrandom errors. Indeed, adjusting some of the random errors (particularly with potentially biased algorithms) will make the average less accurate – properly done adjustments should make no difference.

    If there are systematic errors, then you adjust for those systematic errors on a case by case basis where you have worked out the error properly.

    Running algos to find random errors is simply wrong and unecessary. If that produces significant revisions to averages, the algorithm is almost certainly biased..

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    • #
      Peter Fitzroy

      Did you read my post. All this is considered in the methodology.

      No one can claim anything else but vague hand waving. Look at the raw data, look at the ADAM and ACORN datasets, look at the methodology used to validate them. Look at the model used for both forecasting and climate, then tell me what is wrong.

      /Belief, beggars my

      09

      • #
        AndyG55

        NO , it is NOT considered in the methodology

        The Methodology is USED to CREATE warming trends that often do not exist in the raw data.

        Proven, shown many times that this the WHOLE AIM of the “”adjustments”

        /pf cannot accept the FACTS… they would destroy his “beliefs”

        61

      • #
        AndyG55

        “Look at the model used for both forecasting and climate”

        They can only just correctly forecast a few day out… if they get lucky.

        Climate, they are TOTALLY USELESS, just a guessing game based on erroneous assumptions.

        Sights as wide as a barn, and they STILL MISS. !!

        50

      • #
        theRealUniverse

        Pf Tony Heller has ALREADY proved that the NOAA/NASA data has been homogenized, go away and study it. If you dont see it,,tuff titty.

        Hopeless arguing with trolls like him…

        50

      • #
        OriginalSteve

        Lies, damned lies…and homogenization….

        10

  • #
    Rob Leviston

    Interesting conversation here!
    Ok, I travel 50k’s from home to work. My van has its own thermometer! Wow! Dunno how accurate it is, and it only reads to the nearest whole degree!
    But! What I have observed countless times, is how variable the temperature can be over that 50 k’s! Can leave home at 7C, and get to work at 0C! And that’s only over 50 k’s!
    And the BOM thinks they can ‘homogenize’ data over longer distances? That, verges on the ludicrous!
    One of my previous occupations, was as a Lab Tech for a flour mill.
    One of my roles, on an annual basis, was to prepare the NIR machines for that years wheat harvest. This required many, many, repeated anaylsis, to fine tune the data, to get a stable calibration! If you want a robust calibration, you MUST have accurate data inputed into the calibration table. If the calibration were not robust, then the output from the field tested wheat samples would not be accurate. The farmers who supplied the wheat were relying on our accuracy for protein and moisture content. Too high a moisture content, the wheat could be rejected, or held over to ‘dry off’ As for protein levels, the farmers were paid in 0.1% increments! Yes, accuracy was paramount!
    Anyway, the reason for this little tale, is to say that if you want robust data, then you must have as many inputs as possible! You cannot just have a couple of data points, draw a line, and say this is it! No! I mean how can the BOM justify using Ballarat to adjust a place in Tasmania? Its across a body of water, in a different airstream, and at a different latitude! Ludicrous!
    And what compounds this issue, is that you now have all this adulterated data being fed into otherwise inaccurate climate models, spewing out something that is to be regarded as an accurate forecast?
    No wonder we now have a generation who are led to believe that soon, the sky is gonna fall! An to use an old computing term GI/GO!

    90

  • #
    Eddie

    In a double Twitter whammy skeptical Blogger from Melbourne Jamie Spry https://twitter.com/jwspry?lang=en is suspended on Twitter this weekend and another established skeptic Chaam Jamal dissappears altogether https://twitter.com/thongch34759935

    70

  • #
    Peter C

    Who is Peter Fitzr
    Peter; Who are you?

    50

    • #
      Peter C

      ok, Peter,
      I should have said Peter Fitzroy, but it came out wrong.

      50

      • #
        Peter Fitzroy

        Simply speaking I’m a former ecologist, now semi retired, is that enough, or are you after my inside leg measurement?

        110

      • #
        Sceptical Sam

        He’s an old white lefty male, still fighting those dreadful Capitalists who keep improving peoples’ living standards and life-spans.

        He’s an apologist for the poor science that consistently flows from those who claim that man-made CO2 is the primary driver of global warming, and that it will be catastrophic.

        He has a tin ear.

        Nothing much else about him is relevant.

        80

        • #
          Peter Fitzroy

          And you? Still repeating the lames ass tropes from the heartland institute, as you complain about the cost (never the value) of everything, while driving the 98 commodore home from Maccas, leaving a trail of garbage as you go.
          /pathetic

          18

          • #
            AndyG55

            Poor pf, starting to LOOSE IT.

            Trot off to beddy-bys before you have a tantrum, little boy/girl/whatever.

            Had a nice piece of steak this evening, cooked over a wood fired BBQ.

            Also went for a drive in the V8, but not to maccas.

            How was your vegan hamburger, PF?

            By the way, where is that empirical evidence of warming by increased atmospheric CO2

            Still haven’t figured out what “empirical” or “evidence” mean yet, have you. ;-)

            /poor evidence free PF

            41

          • #
            AndyG55

            “leaving a trail of garbage as you go.”

            Not us who is leaving wind turbines and solar panels littering the whole environment !!

            Why never a comment on the HORRENDOUS pollution in China from the mass production of wind turbine magnets and solar panels

            Not near you.. so it doesn’t matter.. right PF !!

            Went passed Eraring power station the other day..

            Gees everything was LUSH and GREEN !!

            Must be something in the air ;-)

            40

          • #
            Sceptical Sam

            while driving the 98 commodore

            Now I know you have a tin ear and what’s more your reading and comprehension ability is fast fading.

            Everybody knows I drive a big, beautiful, fuel guzzling Toyota Landcruiser. Bull bar, winch, driving lights, two batteries, nice big Engel in the back, two spares, black duco (to absorb the heat) and a big and very effective air-conditioner (to cool the heat). It gets about 16 litres/100 kms when I’m gunning it across the vast spaces of outback Western Australia.

            When you’re bush-bashing it’s even better. Bowls over those jam trees like a M1 Abrams tank. No worries comrade.

            20

        • #
          Kalm Keith

          Eggzakly.

          Nothing there, move on.

          10

  • #
    Another Ian

    Around this area

    “Understanding the Climate Movement Part 3: Follow the Money”

    https://wattsupwiththat.com/2019/10/06/understanding-the-climate-movement-part-3-follow-the-money/

    30

  • #
    jack

    CAPE BRUNY LIGHTHOUSE
    Differences(cdio-ACORN2) at the start of the recording period to the most recent set of data that show difference between cdio and ACORN2. 1000 sample of each.

    2 JAN 1923 to 28 SEPT 1925 The sum of differences is 67.5 (Avg increase of 0.067 degrees each day)
    27 JUN 1988 to 24 MAR 1991 The sum of differences is 771.7 (Avg increase of 0.772 degrees each day)

    See post here for explanation

    60

    • #
      Peter Fitzroy

      Are you saying that there is a climate change signal?

      18

    • #
      Peter Fitzroy

      Are you saying that there is a climate change signal?

      08

      • #
        AndyG55

        You really haven’t got a clue , have you PF

        TOTAL lack of comprehension and understanding.

        Hilarious ! :-)

        61

      • #
        jack

        I am not say anything, it is data, it speaks for itself.

        60

        • #
          Peter Fitzroy

          So there is ago in. Your figures, we’ll done

          18

          • #
            AndyG55

            You sound like you are on your second or third bottle of turps , PF

            So…. no different from usual.

            /PF = incoherent GI-GO.

            71

          • #
            jack

            It is all BoM data that I use.
            I have fully explained what I have done, so even if you basic programming capabilities you could replicate it.
            Unlike like those who have something to hide and won’t divulge their source code.
            And what do you mean

            So there is ago in. Your figures, we’ll done

            What do you use instead of figures, Tea leaves.

            50

          • #
            Peter Fitzroy

            opps thick thumbs. So there is agreement, your figures are showing a change, and that is change is down to AGW

            06

        • #
          AndyG55

          But PF doesn’t UNDERSTAND the calculation or the result

          He is a mathematically inept moron.

          41

          • #
            Graeme No.3

            Andy;
            that has been obvious for some time.
            Whether he is a stupid as he sounds from his posts is questionable; I lean towards him being brainwashed into the cult of AGW. (You probably think they used a fire hose).
            Certainly there is little hope of him working his way out until there is a major change in climate, something that is highly unlikely to be apparent (to him) in his little world on the NSW mid-north coast.

            50

            • #
              OriginalSteve

              Well Patricia orobably has a beach front house in a small coastal hamlet somewhere….waiting for the sea level to rise.

              Big bonus…if sea levels rise due to increased temp i wont need my wet suit anymore….it will be like swimming in a bath…minus the vegan soap of course….on the soap wrapper it said no vegans wee harmed in making the soap, but i have my doubts… :-)

              20

    • #
      Graeme#4

      Jack, looking at the BOM Acorn-Sat document, and if I am interpreting their change rate tables correctly, they too admit that the data change rate has changed between the raw data, Acorn-Sat 1 and Acorn-Sat 2. This documented admission I find surprising.

      20

      • #
        jack

        Graeme#4
        They do admit that they “modify” historical data to create ACORN,
        but the few sites I have run comparisons on have demonstrated that they pushed down the temps in the earlier recordings and raised the temps in the later years.
        This could mean at all the site I’ve test so far, their instruments were reading high in the first part of last century and and low in the later half of the century and they have compensated for that weird and consistent anomaly. How they determine the, suddenly needed to be modified, inaccuracies of the historical data is another question.
        The alternative could be that they wanted to demonstrate a high rate of warming than the original data showed.
        I wouldn’t want to jump to conclusions, but….

        40

  • #
    TdeF

    “No one is saying that the raw data doesn’t need any adjustments”

    I am. It is a basic law of experimental research that you never change the data, at least based on other data from somewhere far away in this case. If a particular instrument is consistently reading high or low, you have to explain why and what correction is needed and the basis for correction of that particular instrument applied to that instrument and only to that instrument. You might even calibrate that instrument against a perfect instrument sited very close to the same place, but maybe away from a freeway or off the concrete to get a very good idea of the bias of the location. You can then apply adjustments which correct that specific set of data and effectively recover good data.
    That is not what is going on here.

    This is rewriting data, raw temperatures based on a model which may or may not be valid, ie. altering the base data on an unproven theory. That is not what should be done. Ever. Unless there is an instrumental fault, the data should never, ever be touched. It is up to the model to reproduce the fixed known and certain data, not the data which has to be adjusted to fit the model.

    This is invalid scientific skulduggery.

    110

    • #
      TdeF

      There also seems to be an idea that everything has to be smooth and if not smooth, the data has to be smoothed. What rubbish.

      The data on one side of the street can be fundamentally different from data on the other side. Clouds, wind tunnels, rain. The concept that
      everything is smooth like a barometric chart is unlikely. More likely you have discontinuities, even across a single hill. To start smoothing
      data across Bass strait and mountains and lakes and bays and wind and all the rest is utterly ridiculous. By all means take the measurements and
      smooth the fit, but to declare temperature is 2C higher or lower because that fits the smoothing is not science at all.

      The temperatures is what it is. That is what should be recorded and what is true. The quality of the model is judged on how well it fits the data but
      from what I read earlier this year, the actual temperatures are being altered retrospectively in real physical locations. That is unbelievably wrong.
      Whoever is doing this should do Year 1 Physics prac again. They would fail.

      90

      • #
        AndyG55

        Even the idea that temperatures several hundred kilometres apart should be “homogenous” is a truly ridiculous one.

        80

      • #
        Peter Fitzroy

        So the climate modelling system uses cells which are 200k on a side, what temp to you assign to such a cell? The weather model uses 5k cells (but only one layer deep)

        Is this so hard, or do you like wallowing in ignorance?

        /inane

        05

        • #
          AndyG55

          “So the climate modelling system uses cells which are 200k on a side”

          Glad you have just shown how pathetically inaccurate climate models really are, even compared to weather forecast models

          Only one “wallowing” is you, PF

          You ooze ignorance in your every post.

          It is hilarious, and does enormous damage to the AGW meme.

          NOBODY except Vishy and GA want to appear as DUMB as you manage to do.

          /PF mathematical inebriate.

          71

        • #
          Graeme No.3

          So using data from 812 km. away is your idea of modelling? Why not those from Peking or Uppsala?

          70

        • #
          OriginalSteve

          200km cells…..no…data should be for the locality and nothing else.

          Yiu might be able to attempt a fill in modelling if what temps between the point locations look like but its prone to error

          For example you have micro climates and other factors that can drastically change temps withong 100m of a location.

          The BOM is effectively erasing accurate data and creating a Borg-like creature of data that is inherently unreliable. But if your plan is to slowly erase specific data, its a devious and effective way to do it….

          20

        • #
          tom0mason

          And you, Peter Fitzroy, have the temerity to believe (for that is all you have) that these models are accurate. 200k per side is ridiculously large!

          Also you are saying that problems with the models are solved by adjusting and smoothing temperature data. Bull$hit! Fix the models not the data.

          It is unscientific fiddle the data to fit the model.

          40

      • #
        Tmatsci

        My sentiments exactly – data is data. If there is to be any smoothing then adjustments should be by self correlation on the basis that today’s temperature should be similar to yesterdays. Thus if there is a discontinuity it should be evident.

        30

    • #
      Peter Fitzroy

      Inane comment of the day

      08

  • #
    Peter C

    TdeF said: “It is a basic law of experimental research that you never change the data.”

    Peter Fitzroy said,(in response): ” Inane comment of the day”

    Who is making Inane comments here?

    80

    • #
      Peter Fitzroy

      The is a crock, you collect the raw data, adjust for known variables (instrument sensitivity – V8 of UAH is an example), then apply whatever tests you want.

      show me one example where the data is not changed, in any field

      /inane is as inane does

      08

      • #
        AndyG55

        But they ARE NOT adjusting for knows.. They are adjusting for UNKNOWNS that they think they have found but never verify

        If they adjusted for the KNOWS, like UHI, the adjustments would be downward towards the present.

        You again DO NOT UNDERSTAND the difference between calculated drift errors, and fabricated mal-adjustments

        It is your totally lack of understanding of data and science that does this to you.

        /PF cognitive malfunction. !!

        50

        • #
          Peter Fitzroy

          Frig – they publish their methodology for both ADAM and ACORN, you on the other hand…

          15

          • #
            Graeme#4

            Peter, please see my comment above after reading the Acorn-sat 2 document. I believe that the BOM does NOT publish the full information on their methodology. If they do, please point me to the actual BOM document.

            60

          • #
            AndyG55

            Yes and that methodology is USED to CREATE warming where it never should exist.

            Are you SO DUMB that you can’t see that using data form CRAPPY sites with large UHI influences to adjust other data is absolute scientific malfeasance? !!

            Your lack of scientific and mathematical comprehension is bizarre at the very least.

            Now, Where is that empirical evidence of warming by atmospheric CO2

            Stop running around like a headless chook !

            41

            • #
              Vishnu

              I really just laugh at your unparalleled ignorance. UAH has been adjustment city . http://rabett.blogspot.com/2011/12/mcintyre-and-mosher-at-door-hand-over.html and was that refusal to hand over codes?

              evidence of CO2 and warming – none really apart from multiple temperature analyses, satellite analyses, paleoclimate, verification of changes in radiative balance, species phenology changes, melting Arctic and glaciers. Lack of a solar driver. And even your host here thinks CO2 is a greenhouse gas.

              06

              • #
                AndyG55

                Poor vishy, has zero comprehension of the scientific basis for KNOW issues with staellites

                Codes are readily available

                Glad you get your information from a rabbit.. Makes sense now.

                No evidence of warming by atmospheric CO2

                “multiple temperature analyses, satellite analyses, paleoclimate, verification of changes in radiative balance,”

                BULLS**T

                Temperature data shows ONLY El Nino warming

                Ceres matches the UAH tropospheric temperature.

                NO ENERGY IS BEING TRAPPED.

                Paleodata shows NO CO2 warming, just the opposite.

                Vostok core show peak CO2 was when temperatures started falling

                You are NO SCIENTIST are you Vishy.

                Just another brain-washed idiot/troll !!

                31

          • #
            AndyG55

            Oh and you didn’t answer…

            WHY do you hate plant life so, so much !

            A “former” ecologist should know better. !!!

            61

      • #
        Graeme#4

        Peter, the earlier temperature data was not changed by BOM, merely recorded. It is only in recent years that BOM has decided to alter the data.

        60

        • #
          Peter Fitzroy

          G4 – they still have the original data, and from that they extract 2 datasets – ADAM – which is for weather, is adjusted to add missing values (least squares method I think), and to adjust for bad measurements, decimal point missing etc). ACORN – which is designed to use a 200k grid, and to look at trends on a 30 year baseline is homogenised to produce average values for the cell. As you can imagine it is more complicated than that, as they also include landforms (mountains, coasts etc) in the process. Both are well documented, and can be checked against the original records at any time, which is what a lot of the discussions seem to ignore.

          It is best to remember that weather uses a 5k grid, and climate uses a 200k grid.

          you can still access the records from the original database if you want

          14

          • #
            AndyG55

            Yes. they use the CRAP data from urban affected site to homogenise everything else.

            That is the intent and the result of the procedure.

            Why are you SO, SO IGNORANT of why is right in front of your eyes. !!

            Weather forecasts are accurate to 3-4 days

            Claimate predictions are FAR less accurate

            So inaccurate as to be MEANINGLESS.

            /PF lacks comprehension of ANYTHING

            31

            • #
              Peter Fitzroy

              Are you saying that it is not hotter in the city? Are you saying that for Sydney a 200k cell is not appropriate?

              Where is your optimum site map?

              /and he calls me a moron

              04

              • #
                AndyG55

                So many sites that are UHI compromised and you choose the one place where even BOM have removed it from their main data set.

                MORON doesn’t half cover your ignorance, PF !!

                30

              • #
                Peter Fitzroy

                Andy ACORN uses Richmond for its Sydney site, what exactly are you saying?

                03

              • #
                AndyG55

                Not really Sydney is it twerp, and only goes back to 1995.

                And if you knew anything you would know they are quite different weather areas

                But ignorance is your thing. so just stick with that.

                20

              • #
                AndyG55

                Now , how has the global climate changed in the last 40 year that can scientifically be linked to human activity?

                You are still batting a big fat ZERO on that one.

                20

          • #
            AndyG55

            Nw , Where is the empirical evidence for warming by atmospheric CO2

            /cue more headless chook routine

            41

          • #
            Vishnu

            Peter – he has no analytical ability. He wouldn’t know where to start. His job here is to be a troll and just drag you around endlessly in a dishonest circular argument.

            17

            • #
              AndyG55

              Poor dumb vishy-troll

              Facts and CLEAN data are MEANINGLESS to you.

              Poor puppet !!

              22

            • #
              Peter Fitzroy

              Well, Vishnu, I’m hoping that others also see the essential emptiness of his ranting. Except for the munchkins from OZ, they are busy perfecting their Peter Allan tribute band, apparently their tour will be called “Boyz from Oz”

              14

              • #
                AndyG55

                Yet another load of mindless gibberish from PF

                No evidence yet of anything hey PF.

                Just the headless chook routine.

                Just the innate hatred of all life on Earth, yourself most of all.

                21

              • #
                AndyG55

                /cue more headless chook routine

                So predictable is PF ! :-)

                10

            • #
              AndyG55

              Yes, trying to nail you or PF down to a bit of HONESTY is a very difficult task.

              Even harder to get you to accept basic facts and data that isn’t mal-adjusted or fabricated.

              You desperately NEED to avoid clean data, facts, and most of all, any self-honesty, to keep your brain-washing intact.

              21

          • #
            Graeme#4

            Peter, at the risk of labouring a point, I do not believe that the BOM documents anything very well, otherwise we would not be having this protracted conversation. They may internally, but the documents I have seen so far would not allow anybody to accurately reproduce their processes and generate the same results. And surely all science should be reproducible by others?

            10

            • #
              Latus Dextro

              Nice comment. Were the unimpeachable, untampered, data widely, freely and openly available, there would be no discussion other than about the potential fra-ud-u-lent fiddle.

              00

  • #
    Graeme#4

    If I may comment on what I regard as another absurd case of homogenisation:
    I believe that an Acorn-sat site Carnarvon WA, on the coast, is homogenised by data from a hot inland site, Gasgoyne Junction, 175 kms inland and currently 10 degrees hotter. This would naturally increase the temp data recorded from Carnarvon.

    70

    • #
      Peter Fitzroy

      see my comment about climate and why there is homogenisation

      06

      • #
        AndyG55

        “see my comment about climate and why there is homogenisation”

        Put that in the “WHY BOTHER” basket

        Your comments are MEANINGLESS and based on IGNORANCE.

        31

      • #
        Graeme#4

        Sorry Peter, but I don’t believe that your response specifically addresses my comment. Surely there can be no other result by homogenising a seaside town’s temperature with one well inland, other than to increase the temperature of the seaside town. So it MUST distort this temperature reading, and surely this cannot be regarded as necessary in any way. FWIW, I believe that Carnarvon, prior to homogenisation, never showed a warming trend. Now it does. Wonder why?

        50

        • #
          AndyG55

          Same if you homogenise an unaffected site with a site affected by urban warming.

          The unaffected site then gets a non-real positive trend.

          That is exactly what BOM does.

          That is exactly what the methodology was meant to allow them to do.

          20

          • #
            Graeme#4

            Never thought of this possibility also Andy.
            Another Acorn-sat 2 document issue that I haven’t as yet commented on was that I couldn’t find any mention of how the BOM addresses UHI – this major subject area seemed to be ignored.

            00

  • #
    Bill in Oz

    Peter Fitzroy is here to troll and bait
    Andy falls for the trap of being baited.
    Ignore the bloody idiot.
    He doesn’t deserve the attention nor the time
    You give him Andy
    Let the modes delete his nonsense..
    That’s their job !

    30

    • #
      AndyG55

      “Let the modes delete his nonsense..”

      But they won’t.

      And he will just keep posting his slime and nonsense .

      31

      • #
        Bill in Oz

        His game is to waste your time and energy.
        Bait & Bleed you Andy !
        That’s a moderator issue.
        Let them deal with it
        If they don’t then JoNova’s blog will die.
        I don’t think Joanne will let that happen.

        00

        • #
          Serp

          There may be PeterFitzroy posts which have been moderated out of our sight but that which survives is harmless, albeit rarely informative, and the AndyG55 relentless whack-a-mole responses are generally factual, often refreshingly original and overall enhance the experience of visiting this site; I’m happy for both of them to keep it up.

          20

  • #
    Tmatsci

    I wonder if these people have ever taken an early morning walk. You will soon realise that the temperature varies from place to place on a micro scale. (it is much easier to experience this in the early mornings rather than later in the day because the temperature has not risen yet.) This makes correction or adjustment using the nearest mearurements problematical to say the least.
    Assuming that we must adjust temperatures to allow for changes in the environment of the thermometers, then surely day by day autocorrelation of the temperature records should be used. After all the BOM uses this technique in part to make temperature forecasts on the basis that tomorrow is more likely to be similar to todays temperature.

    20

    • #
      TdeF

      Agreed. And if I wanted to know the temperature locally, I would use the closest weather station, not the temperature across Bass Strait. That does not even make sense.

      There is something very wrong when raw data is adjusted. That is forbidden in science. I learned this a long time ago. Otherwise it is so easy to make data fit the theory which makes every theory correct, even if it’s wrong.

      40

      • #
        AndyG55

        These two jackasses have obviously never been near any real science.

        A “former” ecologist that hates plants…

        .. and a Hindi god wannabee..

        So funny !!

        Quite funny watching them expose their lack of scientific understanding in basically every post.

        20

      • #
        Graeme#4

        Bit like constantly adjusting the parameters in the GCMs when they constantly fail to hindcast properly….

        20

    • #
      AndyG55

      Quite simple.

      If their are obvious problems with the data collection, as at many BOM sites, DON’T USE IT, certainly not for the homogenisation process.

      If there are gaps in the data.. LEAVE THEM AS GAPS.

      Big question is… WHY is there so much missing data in more recent times !!

      That is basically inexcusable considering how much money is funnelled BOM’s way

      Apparently, some 50% of US data is now just “estimated”, Nobody can take that data seriously. !!

      If there is a site move or change of equipment, then it is a separate record unless proven to be parallel over a good period of time.

      None of this looking for aberrations by looking at CRAP data hundreds of km away in different climatic zones, then just “adjusting” to that CRAP data

      That is just plain ANTI-SCIENCE.

      20

  • #
    TdeF

    Often in real science, not Climate Science, it is the little differences between the expected and the real data which leads to breakthroughs. Explaining the differences between theory and reality is what science is all about and the source of some of the greatest advances in science. It is a tragedy and a disgrace that we are fiddling the data on a National scale and even retrospectively and being told that is reality.

    50

    • #
      Latus Dextro

      Absolutely. The unexpected, frequently opens new avenues or forces multiple lines of investigation, each contributing an element of insight at their intersection, which in turn becomes the new hypothesis. Such was my own (published) research.

      00

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