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Furious commuters drag Extinction Rebellion protestors off train

Case #412 of religious fanatics overplaying their hand again

Two protesters in London had stopped the Jubilee line train by standing on top of it with a banner. Two more were planning to glue themselves to the train, but the crowd was fed up. Mahatir Pashais a journalist for ITV News who apparently witnessed and filmed the furious commuters. He writes on twitter: “One commuter shouted “I need to get to work, I have to feed my kids,” when the protestors initially went up.” Then there was the “shocking moment angry commuters drag two #ExtinctionRebellion protestors off the top of a train in Canning Town and attack them.”

The crowd cheered as the protesters and their banner were removed, and though people called for calm, some got violent. In an awful moment, one of the protesters was kicked and bruised (UPDATE: Looks like that was exaggerated.  No photos or reports today of any injuries). The protesters shouldn’t have been there, and the mob shouldn’t have got violent. *The mob it seems just got rough.

This is what we get after two decades of shutting down the conversation — most people aren’t convinced, and most activists are loopy. No middle ground.

.

 

Instead of trying to force the crowd to bow before their lecture, they could always stop namecalling, and actually listen to the people they are trying to persuade. Just a thought.

At the moment all XR protests have been banned across London, which is being challenged in court. In this case, even most XR members thought the Jubilee line protesters went too far.

 The Mirror, UK,

A poll on the Extinction Rebellion Telegram chat showed 86 per cent of members were against action targeting the London Underground.

Just 4 per cent approved of the action, while 7 per cent approved if they could be sure trains wouldn’t get blocked underground.

BTP said they had engaged with XR members to prevent the planned “disruptive and potentially criminal” action on the transport network.

The problem with doomsday cults is that anything can be justified:

Extinction Rebellion co-founder Clare Farrell defended the Tube action and said: “The public, I don’t think, realise quite how serious this situation is.” Speaking to BBC Radio 4′s Today programme, she added: “It is still peaceful, and it is still non-violent.

Prime Minister Boris Johnson condemned the protests, with a No10 spokeswoman saying: “What we saw this morning didn’t have anything to do with peaceful protest.

It doesn’t have to be this way.

h/t Andrew Bolt

VN:F [1.9.22_1171]
Rating: 9.7/10 (99 votes cast)
Furious commuters drag Extinction Rebellion protestors off train, 9.7 out of 10 based on 99 ratings

318 comments to Furious commuters drag Extinction Rebellion protestors off train

  • #
    Eugene S Conlin

    I note one of the (peaceful) XR idiots appears to kick the man trying to get him down in the head at 0.06.

    340

    • #
      Curious George

      [Extinction Rebellion co-founder Clare Farrell defended the Tube action and said: “The public, I don’t think, realise quite how serious this situation is.”]
      The XR does not realise that the Tube is used by working people, not by elites. Serious indeed.

      560

      • #
        OriginalSteve

        Rebellion extinction now happening…..

        Once these leftist idiots work out peopke have higher priorities than a fictional crisis that only feeds the Goracle money, and gives bored uni students something to do, they will go back to being useful members of society….until then, this type of backlash will continue…

        370

        • #
          Graham Richards

          Once more if, they dare, will see the next XR moron protestor, beaten within an inch of his life.
          Tha public too are voicing their opinion & the morons had better take note!

          171

          • #
            Mal

            The new breed of idiots/morons are the Gretin Cretins
            Brainwashed /indoctrinated gullible stooge.

            190

          • #
            sophocles

            Graham:
            You’re right. Both sides will try to escalate first. One side is convinced of its rectitude. The other has other priorities and is already expressing its intense annoyance.

            There may even be one or more deaths which would be a great tragedy. I hope cooler minds will prevail, but I fear it is on the cards with such extremism as we have witnessed to date.

            100

            • #
              Latus Dextro

              I hope cooler minds will prevail, but I fear it is on the cards with such extremism as we have witnessed to date.

              sophocles, the only ‘cool’ minds are those that ‘deny’ ‘warming’. Those that promote the scam also promote the non-existent extremes.
              It began with ‘coal trains’, with ‘denier’, ‘delusional conspiracists who deny the moon landing’, polar bears marooned on a residual piece of floating ice, RICO, lost positions, dying free speech, and on and on it goes.
              No, there are no cool heads left in Left world.

              140

        • #

          The use of overhead traction power in Aus will prevent this nonsense from becoming fashionable in Aus.

          10

    • #
      Roger

      Kicking out at a commuter was his big mistake !! He had to be rescued from the very angry crowd of commuters trying to get to work by British Transport Police.

      But after being ‘Crowd-Defended’ against on the platform XR then cancelled their planned protests at Gatwick airport. They probably realised the reception they were likely to get. A poll today showed 63% of the public suppotred the way that XR protesters were dealt with by commuters on the platform.

      Andrew Neil, a heavyweight British interviewer, demolished and exposed XR lies and propaganda on his TV show:
      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H3kJwQBZOkM

      Well worth watching, its around 8 minutes long.

      381

      • #
        OriginalSteve

        Yeah….idiots stuck in plane tyre treads takes a long time to clean out….

        210

      • #
        Kalm Keith

        She’s a droob, “yuh know.”

        And the amazing thing is that they see themselves as a de-facto government.

        130

      • #
        Latus Dextro

        [snip]

        Think about the millions in Africa nailed to the Green diktat of poverty.
        Think of the 40,000 excess winter deaths in the UK, the elderly power impoverished who are forced to chose between warmth or food.
        Think about the £340 plundered annually from each household in the UK for intermittents.
        The Green Death: de-population, de-industrialisation, destitution, despair:
        Not on our watch.

        340

      • #
        Latus Dextro

        Too many lunar cycles past in a galaxy far, far away, I was read my rights at the end of the long arm of the law by a rather large example of the London Transport Police. It was a guiding day that lives in infamy.
        LTP, not to be trifled with.

        30

    • #
      theRealUniverse

      Nobody condones violence but this is exactly what you get when these XR loons start using ‘brown shirt’ tactics on the public. I can see them lasting what ever the general public views are. Even ‘Greta’ failed to start a world awakening type of uprising.
      Result for the eco loons.. EPIC FAIL!

      120

    • #
      Geoff

      We are close to the Maunder Minimum. This is the bit of our climate change that counts. The BIG yellow ball rules. Expect a VERY cold winter in the northern hemisphere and a hot summer in the southern hemisphere. The drought in Oz is peaking. Another year to go. Bushfires galore. Then the flood in 2021. Name ANY council region in NSW and Qld doing prep work for a flood?

      Meanwhile our elites will continue to maximize their power and money, crowing that the only way to fix the yellow ball is to give them more power and money.

      Meanwhile overall the climate continues to cool as our magnetic field wanes. Driven by a long wavelength solar cycle.

      40

  • #
    Sceptical Sam

    They were too gentle with these fools.

    The public understands when it’d being fed communist and anarchist propaganda.

    Good on the Brits. They understand how to deal with them.

    473

    • #

      Sam, don’t think you realize the mob kicked a man when he was down. Not OK.

      UPDATE: In the cold light of day it’s not clear that the crowd did get violent. Just Rough. ‘No reports of harm done. – Jo

      2437

      • #
        JS

        Not ok but if you insist on poking sleeping lions then one day you’re going to get eaten.

        761

      • #
        Sceptical Sam

        Hmmm….

        Not sure about that Jo.

        Mob? No. Commuters? Yes.

        Then there was the “shocking moment angry commuters drag two #ExtinctionRebellion protestors off the top of a train in Canning Town and attack them.”

        Nope. One was pulled down. The other anarchist fool slid off the side of the train into the crowd with some encouragement and put his foot into some poor bugger’s head on the way down. Who bruised whom?

        Yes. There was a bloke who climbed onto the top of the train, presumably with the intent of removing the second XR fascist. However, that never happened. The XR coward decided to vacate of his own accord – with a bit of encouragement from the bloke who climbed onto the roof.

        Omelettes, eggs, crack.

        The commuters (not a mob at all) got to work. Job done.

        Let XR and the rest of the fools understand what’s around the corner for them. Fortunately the Brits don’t carry guns.

        591

        • #

          Sam, you’re talking about the action in the video. I’m talking about the reports out early last night that one XR guy was kicked “bruised and cut” while down. Today I can’t find any photos or reports of real harm done. Can anyone else? XR have apologized twice, admitted they were wrong, cancelled the Gatwick protest. Even the photographer claiming cuts and bruises today is saying he didn’t feel fear “of the mob”.

          This happened at a working class station. Londoners are scathing on twitter. So status seeking guys in suits were trying to force the working class with deadlines to listen to their lecture.

          There are longer videos in the Daily Mail story here. may be just roughhousing in a tense situation. https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-7582765/Extinction-Rebellion-protesters-cause-misery-morning-commuters-converge-Canning-Town.html

          Basic rule applies: violence in self defense, acceptable. Kicking while down, not.

          TdeF at #11, and Steve at #27.
          October 18, 2019 at 5:40 am

          One of the guys has been arrested something like 14 times. Clearly that didn’t slow him down at all.

          140

          • #
            Lionell Griffith

            It is going to take a lot more than an “apology” for me to believe the XR. NO one has the right to initiate physical force against another. I don’t care what the excuse for the use of such force. It is rightful, correct, and proper that force be used to stop them from such action! If the government won’t/can’t do it, the right of self defense kicks in.

            If arresting doesn’t slow them down, much more effective means must be used to prohibit the initiation of force to violate other’s individual rights. For example, imprisonment for a significant period of time. If that doesn’t do it, permanent removal from the population may be necessary.

            If the so called law prohibits you from countering the initiation of force with force, then it is the law that is wrong!

            160

          • #
            Sceptical Sam

            Well here’s the start of it.

            Ladders, banners and total arrogant disregard for the rights of the commuters.

            https://twitter.com/i/status/1184870542169346048

            You’ll notice just how brave the pony-tailed XR fascist was when he was asked to get off the top of the train by one – just one – member of the public who took the time to climb up and negotiate with him.

            Both the XR fascists were lucky the commuters displayed that wonderful English characteristic of understatement.

            90

      • #
        Kalm Keith

        If I recall correctly, the mob only a few days ago blocked people with serious and urgent medical conditions from getting access to hospital. Very uncaring of the XRs and dangerous and stressful for those denied treatment.

        That seems to be non_contact violence with serious consequences and the XRs think they can’t be held to account.

        Maybe the kicker was a relative of one of those people callously denied medical treatment.

        KK

        410

        • #
          Kalm Keith

          Whew, what a relief.

          For a while I thought that my green tick for Jo’s comment above would be the only one.

          The blog proprietors are in a tricky situation where they may attract the attention of the PC inspectors:
          my tick was in deference to these PC considerations and does not necessarily represent the views of the writer while still having due consideration for the potentially dangerous pc ramifications should a pc audit be done.

          Thanks for the blog Jo.

          KK

          144

        • #
          Peter Fitzroy

          have you a link? or is this like the rubbish photo – fake news

          110

          • #
            Graeme#4

            If you are talking about KK’s reference to XR protesters preventing somebody accessing urgen medical attention, yes, KK is correct. I saw the interview on Channel 9, taken while the folks were trying to get to a hospital with somebody in their car that required urgent attention, and the car was blocked by the protesters. I’m sure that you can view the footage if you search for it.
            Also what about the older gent who had his pushbike stolen?

            140

          • #
            Fred Streeter

            There was a trial in Bristol recently relating to the blocking of a motorway exit which served a hospital.

            The “demonstration” certainly delayed access to the hospital for those stuck on the motorway, and more circuitous routes for the ambulances.

            Mention was made of a man unable to get to his dying father, and of a woman in labour being delayed.

            I see no reason to disbelieve KK.

            110

        • #
          Salome

          I agree, Keith. I like ‘non-contact violence’. I have for years regarded the blocking of the way of people about their lawful business as a form of violence that should be treated by the law as such.

          50

      • #
        Lionell Griffith

        Do you realize that the XR people were using FORCE to prevent law abiding citizens from going about their LEGAL daily business? Force begets force and only force will terminate force.

        In a rational society, the government would have stepped in and terminated the unlawful use of force by the XR. When the government doesn’t do it, We the People have a justly reserved right to self defense. The commuters simply used that right and terminated the violation of their rights by force.

        The last time such nonsense was permitted, a paper was signed for “peace in our time”. The result was WW II, uncounted millions of deaths, and the almost total destruction of Europe, major portions of Asia, and Japan to restore the peace.

        Hopefully, We the People will no longer tolerate such nonsense and end it the only way it can be ended: by using force. Like I say, it is going to get ugly.

        640

        • #
          OriginalSteve

          Yes ive been saying that for a while now.

          Now extend this into the power supply mess and how many people are going to be ticked off at the greenies and govt.

          Tip of the ( never melting ) iceberg…..

          350

        • #
          ATheoK

          “The crowd cheered as the protesters and their banner were removed, and though people called for calm, some got violent. In an awful moment, one of the protesters was kicked and bruised.”

          Let’s review this:
          The police allow, mostly, the XR to shut down transportation in whatever city they choose.
          Where they shut down transportation with a miniscule amount of protestors.

          Those protestors dumb enough to get arrested get hauled off to jail where:
          1) Some mysterious source of deep funds pays their bail costs and tees up an expensive fully paid lawyer.
          2) When these protestors are finally before a judge, the alleged judge tosses the the case because the protestors were justified.

          Letting ordinary Great Britain’s citizens watch as XR destroys their lives, destroy their jobs, steal their families food, housing and heating costs.

          If anyone is “justified” in fighting to prevent this travesty, it is the ordinary worker just trying to get to their job or return home, purchase food and medicines, reach school or return home, etc.

          The success of these commuters preventing these protests is only the first step to general revolt of the common person.
          Keep in mind, Britains watch:
          • Any XR protestors turned over to the police will either be set free,
          • Or, if arrested, the protestors have their bail and court fees paid,
          • And, once in front of a judge, the judge tosses the charges.

          Now ask yourself; exactly why should a commuter, pedestrian, or even just someone affected negatively by XR actions: Exactly why should they let someone harming them, their family, their jobs, their livelihoods escape justice?
          More and more people worldwide will come to the same conclusions.

          Earlier today, it was noted that antifa, like the antifa that harmed a rally by President Trump is various alleged sanctuary cities, were mysteriously missing at President Trump’s Dallas rally.
          Neither Dallas police, nor Texas citizens will tolerate violent protestors harming people.
          And “No!”, XR’s allegedly nonviolent protestors have caused and are causing millions harm, some of whom may be terminally harmed.

          290

          • #

            geez, the victim card plus a whole lot of mysterious forces and shady backroom deals. I’m a believer, tell me more.

            123

            • #

              Gee Aye, geez the victim indeed. We’re not the ones faking out that our future is being stolen, kids and kittens are being murdered and “the planet” is going to die.

              you’re baiting the crowd and the crowd is ignoring you. Give up.

              310

              • #
                gee aye

                Can you rewrite?

                I assume you are trying to say that you agree that the judicial system is being corrupted from within as implied here? Or something else. ATheoK’s comments were vague and unsubstantiated and my comments to them were arch and assumed I knew what TF they were on about and then you layered that with something or other.

                Do you think that people in high places and core societal institutions have been infiltrated?

                120

              • #
                robert rosicka

                “Infiltrated” ? There you lefties go with the conspiracy theories again !

                90

              • #
                AndyG55

                “Do you think that people in high places and core societal institutions have been infiltrated?”

                Gees… talk about naïve !!!

                Do you really think they HAVEN’T ???

                You must lurch around zombie-like with your eyes closed, and in a permanent daze of unawareness of anything going on around you.

                150

          • #
            Lionell Griffith

            It is not violence that is at issue. Violence is simply an extreme case of the use of physical force in which aggressive action is initiated. The initiation of the use of passive aggressive force must still be prohibited. Because it too is a violation of individual rights.

            By “merely” standing on top of the train cars, the XR is using passive aggressive physical force to prevent the commuters from going about their daily lives unhindered. THIS justifies the use of physical force to terminate the XR action.

            If the government won’t do it, those who’s rights are thereby violated have a right to terminate such violation of rights by applying sufficient force to make sure the violation does not happen again. If such self defense is not legal by law, it is the law that is wrong and is, itself, a violation of the individual’s right to HIS life.

            240

        • #

          Yes, purposely impeding the lawful movement of a person or persons is a form of violence. Of course you may be guilty of assault by forcefully removing someone from your path.

          42

      • #
        Greg Cavanagh

        People have been patient with these idiots so far, but there comes a point when their games will not be tolerated further. They were both lucky that they only got bruised.

        340

        • #
          robert rosicka

          These so called peaceful protests were always going to end this way when the wrong commuters were held up by these idiotic protests .
          It will spark copy cat incidents and one of them will get seriously injured which is secretly the aim of the hierarchy of XR.

          120

          • #
            OriginalSteve

            One wonders whether these idiots are trying to provoke an attack on them…as a means to force police protection and make them “untouchable” maybe?

            Funny…the commuters were able to “touch” them…there in lies the lesson me thinks….

            110

      • #
        glen Michel

        True blood male thing. You know their ways and you respond in kind. Nothing wrong with stern action [snip]

        101

      • #
        tom0mason

        Jo,
        What the fool on the roof completely misunderstood/miscalculated was how stressful it is traveling by the London Underground during the morning rush hour. Seeing the perceived enemy preventing people from going about their lawful business to my mind was asking for a reaction, it was the proverbial ‘red rag to a bull’. Kicking a person when they’re down is wrong but when a mass of people are stressed, angry and can see, get to, the focus of their outrage, then mob mentality takes over.

        The police better have their strategy sorted out for London airports, as there it’s stress x100.
        A large group of over stressed people in a confined place with some idiot trying to prevent their travel might just get more than a couple of kicks.

        Hopefully Excretion Rebellion may think twice before trying such stunts again. (but I doubt that they think)

        270

      • #
        Bill in Oz

        ER insist on disrupting millions of peoples live and work.
        Bugger them
        Let them face the wrath of ordinary people.
        The police have been protecting these idiots from the wrath of ordinary people.

        310

      • #
        PeterS

        Jo, the man being pulled down kicked first. Sometimes fire has to be fought with fire. It’s not about revenge but about self-defence and returning the scene back to normal so people can get on with their orderly business. If we allow such disruption to continue unabated we can only expect chaos. Better to act sooner rather than later in such a clear and obvious act of aggression against our way of life.

        260

      • #

        So Jo… looks like you’ll keep more fan boys if you side with the mood for violence.

        What an ugly bunch of blogkateers you’ve attracted.

        156

        • #
          robert rosicka

          Stupid comment ahh gee , Jo has plainly said the actions of the mob were out of line and even was red thumbed for it when reiterating her disdain for violence .

          130

          • #

            That is what I was commenting on Robert. Did you notice the “if” in the first sentence? The evidence is the thumbs and the replies to her comment.

            Violence is not the inevitable end game.

            126

            • #
              Lionell Griffith

              It is not violence that is the issue, it is the initiation of the use of physical force that is the violation of rights here. This always necessitates the use of physical force to terminate the initiated force. If the government won’t/can’t do it, then the right of self defense kicks in and justifies the application of physical force to terminate the violation. It doesn’t have to be nice to be just.

              If the government would do the only job it has to do that is legitimate for it to do, the situation would have been terminated within minutes of it starting. As it was, the government was missing in action and We the People dealt with the violators.

              70

            • #
              Sceptical Sam

              So, gee Aye.

              What would you do if you were one of the commuters?

              Perhaps you’d say: “Hey pretty boy, please get off the roof of the train, it’s illegal to be up there and you might fall and hurt your precious little self. And, if you don’t then I’ll cry because I’ll be late for my morning latte”?

              90

        • #
          el gordo

          You can appreciate their frustration and mental confusion, now that global warming has come to an end.

          170

          • #

            That is not addressing what I wrote. Make it a stand alone comment and I might reply.

            120

            • #
              OriginalSteve

              GA, stop stirring. You know full well people here dont and never do advocate or condone violence of any sort.

              If stupid XR people provoke and already stressed group of people in a confined space, anyone with a few brain cells knows whats going to happen.

              The violence wasnt called for, it was the unfortunate outworking of the core of the issue, which is selfish and petulant foolish childish benhaviour by a group of clueless ( canon fodder ) left wing zealots. And now quite simply people have had enough.

              The other thing is the XR foot soldiers I doubt are that smart, however the XR leadership and no doubt their leftist bankrollers may have been hoping for some form of significant conflict to put them into the much coveted Leftist “victim” status.

              190

              • #

                You know full well people here dont and never do advocate or condone violence of any sort.

                absolutism in arguements makes it too easy to tear down. Just one example and you’ve lost. So directly stated in 2.1.6 and 2.1.4 and indirectly supported too many times to mention. And not just in this post.

                219

              • #
                OriginalSteve

                Pish.

                I think you will find no one has called for any violence, I cant speak for the frustated commuters in London though after multiple days of punative actions by XR protestors, like blocking people getting to hospitals.

                I think there is an absolute right to self defence against agressive action ( with lethal effect, if neccesary to defend own life ). As to advocating or condoning violence, no way.

                100

              • #
                gee aye

                I presented the evidence.

                17

            • #
              GD

              Make it a stand-alone comment and I might reply.

              GA, no one cares if you reply or not. Perhaps you’d feel more at home at the Conversation website.

              80

        • #
          Latus Dextro

          What an ugly bunch of blogkateers you’ve attracted.

          Speak for yourself.
          So, what you’re suggesting that as an invertebrate you’d never stand and fight for something you believe in and you would bow to totalitarianism. Just wondering, do you have a family?
          Doesn’t history reveal any insights to you?

          First they came for the socialists, and I did not speak out—because I was not a socialist.
          Then they came for the trade unionists, and I did not speak out— because I was not a trade unionist.
          Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out—because I was not a Jew.
          Then they came for me—and there was no one left to speak for me.
          Martin Niemöller

          200

          • #
            Michael262

            Latus Ambidextro,
            You’ve just kicked an own goal with that quote.

            017

            • #
              Latus Dextro

              Really NPC 262? The only ‘own goal’ in sight is the Left unfailing belief their own misguided, misbegotten mythology. The truth however, is far more revealing.
              The father of fascism, Giovanni Gentile, was a socialist who believed in the supremacy of the state over the individual. Like his philosophical mentor, Karl Marx, Giovanni Gentile, the founder of fascism, wanted to create a community that resembles the family, a community where we’re “all in this together.”
              The fascist National Socialist Workers Party had no time for limp wristed NPC’s waging a class war.

              150

              • #
                Latus Dextro

                The fascist National Socialist Workers Party had no time for limp wristed NPC’s waging a class war.

                After all, Schicklgruber was only a jumped up corporal.

                80

              • #
                Michael262

                Latus,
                Why are you quoting yourself ?, its all there 50mm above.
                You’re rambling, are you actually defending the little man ?.

                18

        • #
          Geoffrey Williams

          Aye Gee, you are one of the ugliest . .
          GeoffW

          80

        • #
          theRealUniverse

          Down thumbs for being a pratt mr leaf.
          what part of ‘the commuters are getting pi..ssed off’ dont you get. AND why should these morons get a slap with a wet ticket for breaking the law?

          70

      • #
        Peter Fitzroy

        Violence against anyone is never OK, Be it XR, HK (Democracy), Yellow Vests, Women, Children, and minorities. Unless, of course, you want to go back the the ’30′s where riots were commonplace, and violence was encouraged, particularly in the general strike in the UK, The attempts at union busting on the American coal fields , and both in Australia. And this encouragement was on both sides, government and protestors.

        416

        • #
          el gordo

          The formation of the ALP came about through strikes during the 1890s depression. These were matters of substance and tempers were riled, after a few stiff drinks violence was never far away.

          In the modern era, spontaneous uprisings by flash mobs over the end of the world meme, is only grandstanding by ignorant virtue signallers.
          The HK protestors have my sympathy and the yellow vests achieved their goal.

          140

          • #
            Peter Fitzroy

            Yellow vests are continuing, its just not on fox news

            42

            • #
              el gordo

              But wait, the Dutch farmers are behaving like economic vandals.

              ‘Thousands of farmers shut down highways in a go-slow protest converging on the Dutch capital Monday, as they protested being victimised by a government trying to meet European Union emissions laws by cracking down on agriculture.’ (wuwt)

              90

            • #
              OriginalSteve

              If I recall correctly, many of the riots that occurred in 1930s USA were communist driven.

              You dont hear much about it as they have tried to dump it down the memory hole….

              50

        • #
          Lionell Griffith

          As usual, you ignore context.

          1. Violence is simply an extreme case of using force.
          2. It is the initiation of force, in any measure, that is focused upon another’s freedom and life that is the violation of rights.
          3. When your rights (real rights not your fake ones) are violated, you have the right of self defense.
          4. In fewer and fewer situations, the government provides a non violent path to redress of grievances and should be taken advantage of.
          5. When item 4 is not available, your right of self defense gives you the right to FIGHT BACK, with violence if necessary, to terminate said violation of rights.

          But no, you deny the right of self defense when you say “Violence against anyone is never OK.” This unleashes the thug, the criminal, the bully, the coward, and/or the government to do anything it wishes BECAUSE it wishes to do so. The victim cannot respond because it is not OK to do so. May you be damned to the hell you have designed for the rest of us.

          90

      • #
        robert rosicka

        Tough crowd never seen the host get so much friendly fire .

        50

      • #
        Latus Dextro

        Beware the anger of the mild mannered man. The British commuter epitomises ineffable patience. It was fascinating to see action finally manifest itself upon a people who have behaved uncharacteristically like sheeple for far too long.
        The Green pecksniffian mob are swinging a wrecking ball to society. They started their civil war, which may turn out to become, as the last war was, a righteous and just war to rid the World of the despotic fascist socialist Left and their corporatist globalist cronies.
        Useful idiots often wind up doing the wrong thing, in the wrong place at the wrong time.
        When you play with fire, you’re inclined to be burned.

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      • #
        Another Ian

        Hi Jo

        More kicker and kickee

        “The white climate elitist kicks the black worker in the head from on high. Symbolically perfect.”

        http://catallaxyfiles.com/2019/10/18/detraining-day/

        40

  • #

    Enuff is enuff, George Soros-funded Antifa-Occupy-Movement-Xtinction-Revolution, not movements for free speech and liberty of movement but controls on same, same ol. same ol’ same ol’ guru-run cultural revolutions against parliamentary democracies.

    460

  • #
    DonS

    Sorry to disagree Jo but this XR lot are not religious fanatics or a death cult. What they are is a collective of fringe Neo-Marxist groups who have been organised under the ridiculous XR banner. This way they can attract larger crowds to their events then they could as separate cells, which gets more media coverage, which leads to more donations to the cause and hopefully, for them, more dupes joining the movement.

    Nothing to do with the environment and everything to do with bring down Western political systems. No XR events in China, Russia, Cuba or Saudi Arabia, wonder why. Just like the disastrous socialist movements of the 20th century, International Communism and National Socialism, this lot have their own naff little symbol they can wave about to attract the devotion of like minded nit wits.

    The No10 spokeswoman is right, these are not peaceful protests. To deliberately disrupt and intimidate people going about their lawful business in a free society is an act of violence. When the police do little and the courts do less to deal with these people then the mob will react in unfortunate ways.

    530

  • #
    Eugene S Conlin

    Apart from other damage and garbage left for others to clean these same lot (Extinction Rebellion) urinated on, and defaced the memorial to Lord Haig who founded The Haig Fund (the Poppy appeal) and the Memorial to women in WWII though a few tried cleaning them up a bit later (too late!). They have done a great job alienating military veterans (among others).

    280

  • #
    Lionell Griffith

    The first battle of the coming social civil war?

    One side demands totalitarian power over individual conduct and product simply because they want it. The other side demands to be let alone so they can get on with their lives because it is their natural right to do so.

    It is just starting to get ugly.

    The first side needs the other side to continue to exist. The other side can easily do without the first side and can, in fact, do much better without them.

    Who has the real power here?

    310

    • #
      theRealUniverse

      ‘Who has the real power here?’ This extinction thing has shown up the REAL power and agenda behind the climate scam. They want war against the people, total attempt to crush and defeat govts (who already shoot themselves in the foot believing this climate nonsense).

      80

  • #
    GD

    Best laugh I’ve had all day. The train climbers deserved all they got.

    370

    • #
      Greg in NZ

      I’m with you, GD, and I couldn’t even be f’d watching nought. Had a lovely day at work, sunshine & happiness, home/shower/dinner and a wee dram o’ whisky ta wash it doon and Bob’s yer uncle.

      Long ago spent one day on the tube in London and b*gg*r that, off to Scotland, Jimmy, London’s an ugly place. And these goons’ paymasters are even uglier – laugh at ‘em!

      Signed: ex-goalkeeper who knew how to knee tw@ts when they were down and smile at the ref – who, me? Free kick. Thank you.

      50

  • #
    graham dunton

    HI Jo,
    2019-10-18-wuwt-link- facts-about-methane-ignored – Cows and trees fart to ….

    https://wattsupwiththat.com/2019/10/14/facts-about-methane-ignored-to-support-climate-narrative/

    90

  • #

    Well, they’d have to be against electric trains. Everyone knows shared electric conveyances are bad for the planet thingy. Unlike, say, driving your own tonnage of Tesla. Greta would say: Next time take a yacht, Monaco is full of them.

    Of course, XR is as real as Greta or Elon or AOC…or the Road Runner, or Wile E. Coyote, or Rocky or Bullwinkle.

    People, this is expensively funded, heavily scripted nonsense which has nothing to do with climate or carbon…about which the real funders have no concern whatever.

    Become a conspiracy theorist now and beat the rush.

    390

  • #
    AndyG55

    First time public have hit back, so

    Public: 1

    Stinkies: 0

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  • #
    TdeF

    Civilized societies function by mutual respect. Driving on the same side of the road. Respecting people’s space. Not touching. Letting people off or out before you enter. Endless little rules which allow people to coexist and even ignore each other in a crowded world.

    The presumption that you can infuriate a crowd and be protected by the very rules you are breaking of respect for others has limits. It has nothing to do with your beliefs. Stop people from going about their business and the rules can break down very quickly. The potential for harm is high. It’s not that people do not respect peaceful protest. It’s that the protest is breaking the rules, deliberately setting out to massively inconvenience people at close quarters. That both encourages and enables retaliation.
    Once that starts, respect is lost. Once respect is lost, violence is certain.

    530

    • #
      TdeF

      Walk past a lion and there is wary respect. Poke it in the eye with a stick and things change quickly. This provoking is deliberate and the rebellion will lead to a violent breakdown of a wary truce. Of course this is exactly what they want to provoke. A violent response. Why else would they do it?

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  • #
    Travis T. Jones

    You can call them protestors, perhaps legitimise their silly name ‘XR’ to identify them.

    They are climate apocalypse zombies.

    And you know what you do to zombies.

    Make their lives hell too, just as they wished a diminished life on you.

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  • #
    a happy little debunker

    I would never advocate violence.

    If these fools wish to glue themselves to stuff, I say leave them there.

    Make sure they do not have any acetone-based nail polish remover and leave them to repeatedly soil themselves.

    I can almost guarantee you they will never protest anything again.

    390

  • #
    TdeF

    And Marxists dream of violent rebellion. There are always useful idiots who are prepared to do stupid things.

    Messing about in the cavernous dangerous and crowded underground is not the same as playing happy pantomimes on the surface.

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  • #
    PeterS

    It was inevitable and predictable. Now we will have to wait and see if the Extinction Rebellion cult escalate their violent actions. I don’t support violence but when confronted with violence in such a manner the nation needs to defend itself, exactly the same way terrorism is treated. BTW where are the police? Oh I know they are busy telling the people how to think: Meet the top cop who wants to police your pronouns

    250

  • #
    Ruairi

    Those who heed the XR rebel call,
    To climb up on trains and stand tall,
    Could end up quite dead,
    If they fall on their head,
    Going extinct in no time at all.

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  • #
    Anton

    I agree, there is no need for commuters to pull the protestors of the roof of the train. Nor is there any need for the train to delay its departure.

    322

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    Another Ian

    O/T but how’s this for one of those “brain thingies” and future furious customers?

    “Cuomo orders utility to pump imaginary natural gas”

    50

  • #
    yarpos

    Cant get into that everyone should stay nice thing. These idiots are used to a world where they think they have a free hand to have tantrums because of their imaginary bogeyman. Actions have consequences and sadly this could escalate rapidly if they keep it up.

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    Hot under the collar

    They got one of the ‘citizen’s assemblies’ they’ve been calling for, but citizen democracy didn’t quite work out the way they expected!

    210

  • #
    Penguinite

    Just like the good old days! Throw them to the Lions!

    101

  • #
    tom0mason

    Left-wing politics defecated and from the stinking morass of turdy slime the thicker parts congealed to form the Excretion Rebellion, later called the Stinking Rebellion (or something like that).

    As the world cools they (Crap Rebellion) like the UN’s power play will hit the fan.

    “Mind the gap!” you may slip a piece of sh*t!

    80

  • #
    Steve of Cornubia

    I was pleased to see that these idiots got a mild kicking. Like Jo, I deplore violence, but what happened to these guys wasn’t much worse than a bit of primary school argy bargy. After the ‘beating’ you can see one of them stood up looking a little bewildered, but with no apparent damage, so the educational drubbing was pretty restrained. Well done folks!

    I am also heartened. It may well be that this video will encourage more citizens to push back rather than wait for the police to do nothing. When they encounter a mob determined to prevent them getting home, to work or to the hospital, they will be more likely to simply march through, ‘accidentally’ trampling the tents, banners and paraphenalia that accompanies these mass tantrums, “Whoops. Sorry, did I step on your smartphone?”.

    Nature abhors a vacuum and society abhors an absence of law and order. If our governments and police forces continue to allow these loons to disrupt our lives (and if left to do as they wish, I absolutely guarantee they will escalate their actions), then inevitably, people will be left with no choice but to defend their own way of life.

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  • #
    Penguinite

    Newton’s law: For every action there is an equal and opposite reaction!

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    Jonesy

    Has anyone noticed there have been near zero aircraft hijackings since 911? The first sound a hijacker hears now is the collective unclicking of every seat on the jet. Nobody will sit calmly as they face death. The mob will fight for its life. In a lesser way this is what the Brits are doing now, they have had enough, as we all should have had enough of this marxist dogma.

    200

    • #
      yarpos

      I would like to beleive you are right but I reckon there are only a small % that will actually do anything. Probably OK in the plane context as there aint much room.

      21

  • #
  • #
    Steve of Cornubia

    Another thing to consider, which goes a long way toward explaining why this happened (and may continue to happen), is this:

    Imagine, instead of taking matters into their own hands, these busy and frustrated people had called the police. What do you think would have happened? I’ll tell you what I think.

    The police would have spent most of their time bossing the crowd around, ensuring the safety of the protesters. They would have set up a cordon, keeping the law-abiding commuters well away from the train. Anybody attempting to climb onto the train would have been arrested. Once the crowd had been disciplined and brought under control, ‘negotiations’ with the protesters would have commenced. Much talking would ensue, while the police were careful not to lay a finger on the protesters, for fear that they might fall off the train and hurt themselves.

    After an hour or so, the media would turn up. The protesters would continue to ignore the pleas from police to get down and instead unfurl and wave their banners for the cameras, then shout their slogans etc. This publicity is priceless to them and so their protest would continue for at least as long as the cameras were rolling.

    All day if necessary.

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    • #
      Steve of Cornubia

      Just as I thought. reports from the UK say that, after this incident, FOUR arrests were made, including two protesters. Who were the other two?

      Also, as of the time of writing, the reporter said negotiations with some protesters disrupting commuters elsewhere were “ongoing”.

      See what I mean?

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    • #
      robert rosicka

      I thought the police were busy being lectured about world pro noun day !
      Jeremy Corbyn made a speech yesterday announcing proudly his pro noun was “he and him”.

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  • #
    Serge Wright

    The train protests make little sense when you consider trains run on electric power and produce no direct emissions. By disrupting what they consider as their preferred mode of public transport is only sending a message that their protest is not about highlighting an issue or bringing change, but is simply an act of bastardy on society. I’m actually surprised the XR groups have gone down this path because the only outcome will be to further marginalise themselves and make themselves a bigger public enemy number one. Perhaps this train disruption is a sign that they think their battle is lost and it’s now time for hate fuelled revenge on people that choose to work for a living ?

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    • #
      PeterS

      The Extinction Rebellion cult by and large is not about climate change. It’s about extinguishing Western civilisation and they are going about it brazenly and proudly. The sooner the law enforcement authorities at all levels recognise that fact the sooner they will deal with it as they would with any other form of violent attack against our way of life, such as by terrorists.

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      • #
        Annie

        They, ER, are terrorists effectively and should be dealt with as such.

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        • #

          Do they strike terror into your heart?

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          • #
            beowulf

            Their boss does. Soros — the essence of evil.

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          • #
            Graeme No.3

            Of course not, unless they have some noxious disease, a distinct possibility given their obvious unsanitary state. These few were obviously determined to cause trouble, if you read that final bit above about 86% of them being AGAINST demonstrating on the London tube.
            What annoys me is that they want to be supported with money taxed from the ordinary citizen, while interfering with the ordinary citizens lives. People like that have been around for many years; the outlaws in Medieval England robbing the ordinary citizens (rather than the well armed and protected rich) while portraying themselves as fighting for “The GOOD”. Sometimes as in Robin Hood (if he existed) that works, mostly they got hanged. And to forestall straw arguments NO I don’t advocate hanging or flogging. Merely the plentiful application of soap and cold water

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          • #
            Mark D.

            Is that the definition now? It has to be so bad as to strike terror in my heart?

            I’m thousands of miles away with no terror in my anything over these two dumb ass punks. Yet I see what this sponsored bunch (XR) is turning into. THAT does strike terror in my heart.

            Fair warning: if you are on top my vehicle I WILL pull you to the ground. After that I’ll use your apathetic question on a blog as evidence of large scale conspiracy to incite violence.

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            • #

              you’ll be OK. you have guns.

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              • #
                Kalm Keith

                Please don’t advocate for the use of firearms.

                I hate the idea that our democratic process has slipped away to the point that ordinary citizens in many parts of the USA and in some areas of Sydney and Melbourne may feel the need to be armed. Naturally anyone living on an isolated farm or somewhere that’s more than 10 minutes from police support would have means of defence.

                Step 1 for governments should be to disarm all gangs.

                After that we could discuss step 2; the restoration of confidence in policing and courts.

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              • #
                el gordo

                ‘ … some areas of Sydney and Melbourne may feel the need to be armed.’

                They are only gangsters fighting over turf.

                40

              • #

                KK I am with you there. I was referencing past conversations where that sentiment was expressed.

                21

              • #
                robert rosicka

                Your post is not only offensive Ahh gee your obviously trying to bait / provoke someone .
                If I was a mod I’d delete your comment .

                50

            • #
              Mark D.

              See how well that works?

              20

          • #
            AndyG55

            And what would you do, GA, if protestors or anyone blocked you from , say, going into your house.

            Would you stand meekly by?

            Call your mummy ??

            Are you that much of a WEED. !!

            30

          • #
            AndyG55

            No terror at all, just annoyance.

            They are disrupting the normal functions of society, be it by non-violent means or whatever

            That is the AIM of terrorism. !!

            Just get the F*** out of the way and let normal people get on with their business.

            30

            • #
              Peter Fitzroy

              Picket lines not your cup of tea?

              23

              • #
                OriginalSteve

                XR are just agitators.

                They are the next phase in this mess, a bunch of disposable idiots, an escalation of tension to provoke violence and give the Left the excuse it needs to really start getting physical and wheel out the professional brown shirts.

                However real strength is being able to restrain from using escalated measures.

                There may come a point whereby as weve seen, the silent patient peace-loving majority will just eventually round on the Left, and it will get very ugly, very fast.

                I think the foolishness of the left is that it believes people wont eventually deal with them, like putting up with stupid teenagers who break windows with rocks – eventually they get rounded up and dealt with.

                30

              • #
                AndyG55

                I have walked through picket lines, PF

                I have a right to go and do my work.

                It is my decision.

                NO-ONE has the right to stop me doing so except those I choose to give that right to.. ie my employer.

                You seem to be a very COWARDLY little worm, PF !!

                40

  • #
    Travis T. Jones

    They live a fossil-fuelled lifestyle …driving to anti-fossil-fuel protests, drinking cold energy drinks, mobile phones …

    OPINION: THINK [CLIMATE ZOMBIES] ARE DISRUPTIVE?
    JUST WAIT FOR DOOMSDAY GLOBAL WARMING

    “This week, The Feed goes behind the frontline of Extinction Rebellion …

    10.12: “The aim of the game is to mobilise 3.5% of the population, day after day until the government reaches your demands.”

    https://www.sbs.com.au/news/the-feed/opinion-think-extinction-rebellion-are-disruptive-just-wait-for-climate-change

    How’s that 3.5% working out for ya, sweet-cheeks?

    80

  • #
    RicDre

    And speaking of furious people:

    Furious Farmers Defy Army Roadblocks in Dutch Anti-Green Protest

    https://wattsupwiththat.com/2019/10/17/furious-farmers-defy-army-roadblocks-in-dutch-anti-green-protest/

    90

    • #
      PeterS

      It is being said by some that our government is not helping our farmers because the government wants our animal herds reduced in size dramatically to help us meet the Paris Agreement. I have some doubt there is any truth in that but if our government continues to obfuscate the rumour will ring with more truth.

      90

      • #
        robert rosicka

        Yes PeterS I have wondered about our current situation with the drought and herd numbers being sold off in massive numbers .
        The part that seems to point to the government wanting herd numbers reduced is the reluctance to step in and help feed breeding stock .
        While offering incentives to sell up and leave the land , even the Nats are pushing for leaving the land .

        70

        • #
          OriginalSteve

          Sounds like the CAGW disease has taken hold of the Nats….but I have always said this is an occult infiltration of all parties.

          30

          • #
            PeterS

            When we have a PM who is obstinately keeping to the Paris Agreement and is boasting about how we will meet the targets we know that even the LNP believes somewhat in CAGW. Only one or two of the minor parties have policies that treat the CAGW as a hoax. The Australian public have been conned by both major parties.

            40

      • #
        Greg Cavanagh

        The Dutch government did say exactly that. They want to reduce the number of farmers to reduce the meat consumption.

        60

        • #
          mikewaite

          If that is the objective of the NL Govt it surely is impossible to achieve with
          the current EU policies on free trade across borders.
          If Dutch beef or pork are in short supply I am sure that the farmers and cooperatives of Belgium,
          France and Denmark can make up the shortfall in the NL supermarkets.
          Then of course there will also be the very efficient farmers of a newly liberated Britain, eager for new markets.

          30

    • #
      Kalm Keith

      The world has gone mad.

      110

      • #
        RicDre

        “The world has gone mad.”

        KK, Its even worse than we thought:

        WUWT, Furious Farmers Defy Army Roadblocks in Dutch Anti-Green Protest

        Jaap Titulaer October 17, 2019 at 3:53 pm:

        Here is the real story: the Dutch are already at or below the EU target levels!!\
        Have been since a few years after a 25% decline in less than a decade.
        So there is no crisis. That is the sick part of this shit show.
        But the stupid politicians do not have relevant degrees, so they did not understand the RIVM data. I’m sorry but even with a non-Beta degree or non-university degree: how can you NOT understand the basics???

        You see, at the same time, they had a related law kicked out by the supreme court (RvS). That was a typical NL law that was aimed at allowing certain officials to grant permits to simply circumvent all rules (unnecessary because NH3 was already declining enough. But they thought they really needed that.
        And apparently some idiot lawyer changed the limit per hectare from ca. 30 kg per hectare to 1 GRAM per hectare! An issue with a few zero’s….
        Maths is difficult. But anyways, it was destroyed by the RvS. So now the stupid politicians thought they had an issue, oblivious to the fact that the RIVM data showed that the goal had already been achieved!

        Calling upon science, which they do not understand, and after ordering the ‘independant’ (scientific) RIVM to shut up and follow their marching orders, they decided that a lot had to be done.
        Because there is a CRISIS! (There isn’t but, you know alphas).

        So they decided to withdraw (unilaterally) any permit already granted to farmers. At least any space ‘not used yet’. Oddly enough that pissed of the farmers (…). So you have a permit for 100 cows, but you only have 70, natural growth in existing stables will bring that to 80 soon, and you have the permit for 100 because you are going to replace your stables to newer and slightly bigger ones. And the bank wants to see a permit before you get the loan, so you have the permit,
        OK?
        And then the government suddenly pulls the plug. That is unlawful, and they would lose in the courts in say 5 years time, but by then you are bankrupt!
        Hence the farmers are pissed.

        People like me have been working on it and a presentation by experts in parliament left the politicians in great confusion.
        They had just been told that their suppositions as to the technical details were wrong (no crisis, models are wrong by 30% at national level and locally up to 100%, etc) and the second group were the lawyers, who explained that the actions they were taking would not stand up in court (true, but only after many years of litigation).

        So that is what happened.
        We’ll hear on December 1st what the next plan is. some of the politicians have now been educated, but it’s a long road ahead because it seems we have to start with the basics.
        How can you NOT understand this:
        https://www.rivm.nl/sites/default/files/2018-11/grafiek%20bijstelling%20ammoniakuitstoot%20groot.jpg
        (the dotted line is the EU-limit.)

        I hope they have read my posts and similar explanation by people who have actual relevant degrees from the world’s top 50 universities.
        If not, well …

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  • #
    Peter C

    Commuters who dragged Protesters off the roof of a Train sought be Police!

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2019/10/17/commuters-drag-extinction-rebellion-protester-roof-train-activists/

    those on the platform blocked from going to work who “took matters into their own hands” could be investigated by police, who said their actions were “unacceptable”.
    One of the two activists who climbed on top of a train at Canning town can exclusively be revealed as Mark Ovland, who had already been arrested and released “several times” this week.
    The 36-year-old has been identified as the man chased along a train roof before being pulled down onto the platform.
    He describes himself as a full-time Extinction Rebellion protestor who gave up his Buddhist studies to devote himself to climate change action.

    More of what we have come to expect from the PC British Police these days.

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    • #
      beowulf

      And the courts will let the protesters off with a pat on the head, but convict the commuters with assault occasioning bodily harm.

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    • #
      robert rosicka

      They saved the cops a job .

      40

    • #
      Mark D.

      And the police should be sued for not performing to stop these id10ts. Sued whenever such an obstruction keeps lawful people and their employers from making a living. The monetary losses of a few hundred people detained by such antics could easily be actionable. Not to mention disturbing the peace.

      As for those police: Dereliction of duty

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      • #
        el gordo

        The police may not have the powers to arrest and retain, its different in Hong Kong.

        ‘To further deter violence, the SAR government enacted a ban on masks in the city on Oct 5, which makes it illegal for people to wear masks at public assemblies for the purpose of hiding their identity. Violators may face imprisonment of up to one year and a fine of HK$25,000($3,190).

        ‘Since the new law has taken effect, at least 90 people have been arrested for violating it, according to Hong Kong police.’

        China Daily

        10

  • #
    Dennis

    2/10/2015

    “Economic Systems: The alarmists keep telling us their concern about global warming is all about man’s stewardship of the environment. But we know that’s not true. A United Nations official has now confirmed this.

    At a news conference last week in Brussels, Christiana Figueres, executive secretary of U.N.’s Framework Convention on Climate Change, admitted that the goal of environmental activists is not to save the world from ecological calamity but to destroy capitalism.

    “This is the first time in the history of mankind that we are setting ourselves the task of intentionally, within a defined period of time, to change the economic development model that has been reigning for at least 150 years, since the Industrial Revolution,” she said.

    Referring to a new international treaty environmentalists hope will be adopted at the Paris climate change conference later this year, she added: “This is probably the most difficult task we have ever given ourselves, which is to intentionally transform the economic development model for the first time in human history.”

    The only economic model in the last 150 years that has ever worked at all is capitalism. The evidence is prima facie: From a feudal order that lasted a thousand years, produced zero growth and kept workdays long and lifespans short, the countries that have embraced free-market capitalism have enjoyed a system in which output has increased 70-fold, work days have been halved and lifespans doubled.

    Figueres is perhaps the perfect person for the job of transforming “the economic development model” because she’s really never seen it work. “If you look at Ms. Figueres’ Wikipedia page,” notes Cato economist Dan Mitchell: Making the world look at their right hand while they choke developed economies with their left.”

    Investor.com

    40

  • #
    Earl

    A very long time ago, in grade 6 at primary school, my teacher was Mr Sullivan. Whenever the class became noisy or disruptive, he would say,
    ” Empty vessels make the most noise”
    For the life of me, I could not understand what he meant.
    I was watching a report on XR shutting down the sreets of Melbourne last week, and as I gazed upon the sea of vacuous heads, I came to realise exactly what Mr Sullivan was on about….

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  • #
    Peter Fitzroy

    So if you remove the right to protest, or limit it to make it useless as a tactic, what do you expect the disenfranchised powerless to do? For example, the could morph into other types of protest, which could be much more insidious, and much more damaging, like vandalism on a wide scale.

    Protest is an important safety valve in our democracy, removal is akin to removal of that institution

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    • #
      robert rosicka

      By ” limit it ” do you mean stopping protests that interfere with the public , forcing peaceful protesters into public parks ?

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    • #
      Kalm Keith

      Oh, the humanity!

      Times a hundred.

      40

    • #
      RicDre

      “So if you remove the right to protest…”

      No one is saying that, you are making a classic straw man argument. Also, the right to protest does not give you license to breach other people’s rights.

      “For example, the could morph into other types of protest … like vandalism on a wide scale.”

      Given that ER is a well-funded, non-grass-root movement, it probably will evolve into “other types of protest” as Antifa did.

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      • #
        Peter Fitzroy

        Huh – infringe what rights exactly. There are none in Australia for example. But if you rush in draconian laws and ban XR members from contacting other XR members, that is exactly what I’m saying. If these were minority shareholders disrupting an AGM, would you do the same?

        However protestors do have common law on their side (in NSW anyway)
        https://www.parliament.nsw.gov.au/researchpapers/Pages/protests-and-the-law-in-nsw.aspx

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        • #
          RicDre

          “…But if you rush in draconian laws and ban XR members from contacting other XR members…”

          Again a straw man argument, no one is arguing for such laws.

          “If these were minority shareholders disrupting an AGM, would you do the same?”

          Huh? That is a completely different situation. But yes, I would argue that the minority shareholders have a right to make their views known but do not have the right to keep the AGM from proceeding.

          “…infringe what rights exactly. There are none in Australia for example …”

          I can’t speak to Australian laws, but most civilized countries recognize a citizen’s right to go about their lawful business unobstructed by people who wish to unlawfully detain them.

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            Peter Fitzroy

            Since you know nothing about what happened in Sydney, I suggest you do some research, and then apologise.

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            • #
              RicDre

              “Since you know nothing about what happened in Sydney, I suggest you do some research, and then apologise.”

              I’m sorry, but that statement is a complete non sequitur. If you make a coherent statement I will respond to it.

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              • #
                Peter Fitzroy

                do some research.
                use XR Sydney bail, in your search
                read the results.
                comprehend that what I posted was the literal truth
                apologise.

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              • #
                RicDre

                “do some research…use XR Sydney bail”

                Why, what does Sydney have to do with two XR guys being pulled off of the top of a train in London other than as an attempt to change the subject?

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              • #
                Peter Fitzroy

                Do you read any of the posts, or am I subject to some sort of stream of consciousness rant? Read what I posted. Comprehend, if you can

                03

              • #
                AndyG55

                Your posts are almost 100% garbled irrational donkey crap, PF.

                Why the f*** do you think you are so important ?

                You are an irrelevant little gnat.

                Nothing more.

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              • #
                RicDre

                “Do you read any of the posts…”

                I read all of your posts. I answer the ones that are civil and make a point, though I made an exception for your last post that was both uncivil and pointless.

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        • #
          el gordo

          ‘ … peaceful assembly …’

          They are peaceful, like the suffragettes, and look what they achieved by attaching themselves to infrastructure. A century later mayhem has returned, but this movement has a short life expectancy because the end is not nigh.

          20

        • #
          Slithers

          Re-read the last line of the document you so kindly linked PF.

          00

    • #
      el gordo

      People will always protest and I agree with your sentiment that its a safety valve within democracy.

      The Vietnam War came to an end because of large protest marches in the West.

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      • #
        Graeme No.3

        EG:
        But the fighting and killing continued.

        40

        • #
          el gordo

          Cannot be helped, similar to abandoning the Kurds in the modern era.

          These wars of Adventurism must end if we are to find world peace.

          22

          • #
            Graeme No.3

            I am reminded of an old Osbert Lancaster cartoon from the 1970′s of 2 old crusty Liberals (as in England) reminiscing about how the ideals of their young days (50 years before) were still appropriate. Refering to Disarmament, No more foreign wars etc.

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    • #
      Lance

      star comment
      So, if you allow protest to supercede the individual rights of ordinary persons who pays for the damages?

      I’ll agree with your creation of a new super-right if and only if those protesters are held legally, financially, personally, liable for the impact of their protests.

      Delaying a train of 1000 workers for an hour at an average wage of USD 50 per hour per person, means those protesters owe the individuals or their employer USD 500,000.00 in compensation. The follow on losses for delayed shipments, demurrage, lost productivity, etc, are not inconsequential either. Then there are the sick and injured who are harmed by the effects of the protest, so surely they are entitled at law to compensation for pain, suffering, or loss of life.

      Let them protest peacefully without encumbering others and we have a deal.

      Make them liable for all of the ramifications of their actions and we have a deal.

      But you cannot elevate violent, disruptive, costly, protest above the individual rights of others unless you are intending to foment anarchy.

      Nice try, Peter, but you are defending the indefensible and cloaking it under veiled threats of violence as justification for allowing malignant narcissists to rule the day, and that without penalty.

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      • #
        Lance

        USD 50,000.00. one too many zeroes

        40

      • #
        Peter Fitzroy

        In essence, you are saying that the ‘rights’ of an individual transcend the rights of a group, a polity or established legal precedent? Are you an Anarchist?

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        • #
          RicDre

          Are you saying the rights of a group transcend the rights of an individual? Stalin and Mao certainly thought that was true and look how well that turned out.

          130

        • #
          Lance

          The smallest minority is the individual. Individuals have rights under law.

          Evidently, you are a Marxist/Socialist who believes subjugating individuals is OK for the perceived good of the group no matter what individual rights are trampled.

          That would make you the anarchist.

          Your rights end where my rights begin. Try to change that, and things will get complicated very quickly.

          I don’t like mobs. Or bullies. Or anarchists. Or Socialists. They all suffer from a lack of heavy metal.

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        • #
          Peter Fitzroy

          Rubbish, try evading taxes, try avoiding Nasho (if they ever bring that back) try flouting the road rules, try open harassment ext
          What you are saying is the my rights should be considered above all others, anarchism had the same philosophy

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          • #
            RicDre

            Rubbish. It is easy to name a group (such as “The People”), claim that you are speaking on their behalf, then claim that your group’s rights take precedent over individuals’s rights. As stated earlier, Stalin and Mao used this tactic to great effect but it didn’t end well. Or if you’d like an earlier example, check out the French Revolution.

            Government mandates are a completely separate issue as governments have no rights and “…are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed…”. Of course, Governments often forget how and why they were created (as is happening in many governments around the world including mine), but this forgetfulness generally ends in tears. A recent example is Venezuela, but if we are not careful, we will all be headed down that same path.

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            • #
              Peter Fitzroy

              You support the position then, that individual rights are subsumed by greater powers. like governments. For example, you support the policing of various laws, even when they conflict with you rights? like say parking in the middle of the street?

              10

              • #
                AndyG55

                Governments are elected to make these decisions.

                “The Stinkies” would NEVER get my vote, they are not elected,

                They are a bunch of heathen anarchists representing a tiny fraction of society.

                Let them stand for election, see how they go trying to get the greenie vote from the Greens.

                They have NO LEGITIMATE CAUSE.

                “like say parking in the middle of the street?”

                Yep, you cannot park or stand in the middle of the street,

                It interferes with peoples right of passage,

                and the car should be towed away and impounded

                Just like the Stinkies should be.

                Glad we agree on that PF !!

                Get out of my way, Stinkies, I’m coming through !

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              • #
                Peter Fitzroy

                I’m surprised, you are a member of a minority, otherwise you would not be posting heretical nonsense about plants and CO2. I would have thought you would, therefore be supportive, fellow travellers that you are.

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              • #
                RicDre

                “You support the position then, that individual rights are subsumed by greater powers.”

                No, I support the position that we have “… certain unalienable Rights…”

                In some cases, we grant a government the power to regulate some of these rights, but they are never “subsumed” by the government and we are ultimately responsible for protecting those rights.

                “…like say parking in the middle of the street?”

                Not being allowed to park in the middle of the street is a reasonable compromise to make so that we do not to infringe on other people’s rights. Based on that, purposely blocking streets is purposely infringing on other people’s rights.

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              • #
                Peter Fitzroy

                Ric – u have those rights, they are uncommon in the 97% of the world that is not the USA. But still you don’t understand what rights are, and how they operate. There are some things which are completely held by the state – an example is the use of envoys or ambassadors. An individual never had that right. YOu make a big song and dance about ‘rights’, but you do not understand that a protestor in their behaviour is exercising their ‘inalienable right to free assembly’ and that this will be at the expense of your presumed right to drive down the street where they are protesting.

                14

              • #
                AndyG55

                “otherwise you would not be posting heretical nonsense about plants and CO2.”

                What anti-life squawking are you trying to put forward this time, PF

                20

              • #
                AndyG55

                ” ‘inalienable right to free assembly’ “

                More total BS from PF.

                They can assemble somewhere where they don’t DELIBERATELY antagonise other people.

                Let them go and find a sewer to meet in.

                Something that fits their STINKIE natural.

                Stop disrupting other people’s freedom.

                They have NO LEGITIMATE CAUSE anyway, you know that

                They are just brain-washed idiots trying to make themselves relevant.

                30

              • #
                Mark D.

                but you do not understand that a protestor in their behaviour is exercising their ‘inalienable right to free assembly’

                Rubbish! Free speech (especially the inalienable type) does not enable one to disrupt another persons life liberty and pursuit of happiness. Free speech is the kind I can choose to listen to or choose to ignore.

                Only by complacent, complicit, inept or inadequate policing do we have have to live with these disruptive shows. It is not protected free speech and it is not acceptable behavior in a civil society.

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          • #
            Annie

            You totally misread what Lance wrote PF.

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          • #
            tom0mason

            The protesters on the roof of the train where breaking the law. The people in frustration took matters into their own hands so that they could continue with their lawful business.

            In the UK no one has the ‘right’ to break the law and prevent others going about their lawful business.

            I’ve had such an altercation many years ago when a lefty was trying to block my way (he was ‘selling’ some stupid paper and touting for signatures on some petition) on a public street. He believed that he was ‘entitled’ to be in my way, and to harass people, because he had the local councils permit to sell the that appalling rag within a specified area of the public street.
            I and a legal friend of mine made it abundantly clear to him that he was not allowed to block public access to wherever they wished to go on the public streets.
            After he was eventually cautioned by the police he decided to abandon his bullying ways.

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    • #
      beowulf

      What is remotely “disenfranchised and powerless” about these XR idiots who do as they please? The 0.1% telling the 99.9% what they should do. Law and order is supposed to underpin our society. When police fail to uphold law and order on a regular basis and are seen to be openly favouring a group that endangers (as in blocks ambulances etc) and massively inconveniences the public, then it should come as no surprise that the 99.9% rises up and does the police’s job for them. Expect more and greater vigilantism. The silent 99.9% has had a gutful — of XR pests and police inaction both — they are the true disenfranchised and powerless, but their time is coming.

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    • #
      MudCrab

      Another key part of democracy is recognising that if “your” side is constantly rejected by the majority, then maybe it is just you.

      If you constantly reject this concept you are not a supporter of democracy, you are a tyrant in waiting.

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  • #
    PeterW

    When we make violence the worst thing, the result is that the threat of violence becomes something to which we are all held hostage.

    We see it now in the demands to shut down free speech because it “might” incite violence.

    Violence itself is amoral. It is how and why it is used thatdetermines whether it is right or wrong.

    Oh, and yes, the law DOES belong in the hands of the people. When Sir Robert Peel founded the English Police, he laid down the principle that the Police were to consider themselves members of the public who were paid to carry out the duty incumbent on ALL the public.

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    • #
      Brian

      Quite right Peter. After all, if violence were unacceptable we would not have a Defence Force and boxing would be illegal. There is no community support for a cabal of climate fanatics deliberately inconveniencing the population, preventing people from meeting their personal and work commitments and shutting down transport systems and commerce. When the police and judiciary refuse to take appropriate action, or in clear English, fail to do the job they are paid for then is it surprising that people lose faith in their institutions and take matters into their own hands. In this case being good citizens and rendering the train free of fools. As an aside, for all we know the commuter kicked in the head by the protester as he detrained was the one who kicked him back. If so, snot good but definitely understandable.

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  • #
    tolip ydob

    What suprises me about the whole thing is that the zealots expected the folks to continue to behave like ‘commuters’. Their own actions, by design, produced the ‘former commuters’.

    The zealots declared jungle rules NOT the ‘commuters’.
    Even happy mobs can be deadly.

    History, lather, rinse, repeat.

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  • #
    robert rosicka

    OT , To ankle climate change and address the deadly carbon issue here’s a Baldrick cunning plan , burn trees then grind up the charcoal add molasses and feed it to cows .

    https://www.abc.net.au/news/rural/2019-10-18/wa-farmer-uses-beetles-and-charcoal-to-combat-climate-change/11613846

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    • #
      beowulf

      Nothing new about biochar or dung beetles. Feeding charcoal to cattle is a new one on me, but you’d be surprised the junk that is fed to livestock. Everything from clay to fertiliser to cotton hulls to chicken litter (sawdust full of manure). On the whole I’d say eating charcoal was the least of their worries.

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  • #
    pat

    VIDEOS: 17 Oct: DevonLive: Top Devon and Cornwall police officer meets Met Office to discuss climate change impacts
    Deputy Chief Constable says ‘whether you agree with Extinction Rebellion’s approach or not we are going to have to plan for the consequences’
    by Max Channon
    In a tweet, DCC Paul Netherton – who is the the national policing lead on civil contingencies and helps coordinate police forces’ responses to disasters – said: “This morning I am at the Met Office working with The University of Exeter to look at the impacts of climate change.
    “Whether you agree with Extinction Rebellion’s approach or not, we are going to have to plan for the consequences.”

    The meeting comes as his police colleagues in London faced criticism for dismantling tents that Extinction Rebellion protesters were sleeping in during the ongoing protests in London.
    Photographer Matthew Smith from Cornwall – who documented the growth of the free party scene and rise of political activism in his book Exist to Resist, photographs from which were recently exhibited at London’s Saatchi Gallery – witnessed the scenes.
    “Under cover of darkness a line of police waded through tents in Trafalgar Square, upending them and their occupants and impounding everything in site,” said Matthew.
    He described it as a bid “to close down every visible sign of peaceful rebellion possible in order to silence the democratic voices of opposition coming from the people”.

    However, there have been chaotic scenes this morning as commuters clashed with Extinction Rebellion activists at three London stations.
    Video footage showed one protester being pulled from the top of a train at Canning Town before being surrounded by commuters…

    Extinction Rebellion was criticised for comparing activists who stood on top of London Tube trains with civil rights activist Rosa Parks.
    In a now-deleted tweet, the official Extinction Rebellion Twitter account wrote: “Rosa Parks refused to move from the white section of the bus and our rebels refused to bequeath a dying planet to future generations by failing to ActNow.
    “Our InternationalRebellion against the complicity of our governments in the climate and ecological emergency continues.”…

    One person tweeted: “Sorry… are you equating a bunch of middle class white people intentionally disrupting public transport in predominantly poor, working class, ethnic areas to – checks notes – a woman who helped pioneer the civil rights movement so black people could be seen as human beings?”…ETC

    British Transport Police confirmed eight people had been arrested on suspicion of obstructing the railway on Thursday, and also urged commuters not to “take matters into their own hands”…

    However, Extinction Rebellion has several former police officers in its ranks. A former Chief Superintendent from Plymouth and Commander of Policing in Cornwall is one of the most senior retired police officers involved in the movement.
    Rob Cooper, 60, was responsible for police across the county for several years, until his retirement ten years ago. Rob is the most senior retired officer in Extinction Rebellion’s ranks and one of a few former police officers in the socio-political group, reports the Mirror (LINK).

    Mr Cooper told Plymouth Live he got involved with Extinction Rebellion as he wants to make a positive difference and protect the community.
    He said: “I joined the police to try and make a positive difference and protect the community. Those feelings have just come back for me.”
    “I really do believe we are facing a climate emergency and the government isn’t doing enough,” he added.
    https://www.devonlive.com/news/local-news/top-devon-cornwall-police-officer-3438150

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  • #
    Geoffrey Williams

    Surely it is only a matter of time before someone gets killed !!
    GeoffW

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  • #
    pat

    Roger – comment #1.2 above – posted Andrew Neil’s interview with XR’s Zion Lights:

    Wikipedia: Zion Lights
    She was Co-Editor of Juno magazine for 7 years and wrote for The Huffington Post. Lights left Juno magazine in 2019 to work full-time at Extinction Rebellion. She is currently the Lead Editor of the Extinction Rebellion newspaper, The Hourglass, which launched in September 2019…
    She attended the University of Reading, graduating in 2005, and completed an MSc in Science Communication at the University of the West of England in 2019…in 2015 the Western Morning News newspaper reported that Zion is against pseudoscience…
    In August 2015, Lights was dubbed ‘Britain’s greenest mother’ by The Daily Telegraph newspaper…In September 2015 Lucy Siegle, writing in The Observer, called Lights “an eco pragmatist, happily heavily on evidence”…
    Lights frequently speaks about climate change on radio and television in her role as a spokesperson for Extinction Rebellion UK. These media appearances have included BBC Television’s Politics Live, BBC World News, Good Morning Britain and The Andrew Neil Show.

    10 Oct: Breitbart: Watch: Extinction Rebellion Spokesperson: ‘Alarmist Language Works’
    by Thomas D. Williams PH.D
    Grilled by Andrew Neil on the BBC, XR spokesperson Zion Lights found herself admitting there is indeed no scientific basis for claims that billions of people are going to die from climate change…
    “So, these claims have been disputed, admittedly,” Ms. Lights replied…READ ON
    https://www.breitbart.com/environment/2019/10/10/watch-extinction-rebellion-spokesperson-alarmist-language-works/

    New Musical Express, now online only & owned by Singapore’s BandLab Technologies, are true believers, but…

    16 Oct: NME: Extinction Rebellion need to get their facts straight – and ditch the broccoli man – if they want to be taken seriously as a force for change
    by Jordan Bassett
    The ongoing climate change protests are brilliant, but XR let themselves down with alarmist and provably false claims, which makes life too easy for detractors…
    I’m a supporter of Extinction Rebellion. How could you not be? Do you want to live on a planet that looks like Mad Max Beyond Thunderdome?…

    Extinction Rebellion are co-ordinating protests in 60 countries, no mean feat for an organisation formed just last year, and have created a global talking point. So why do they find it so hard to get their sh*t together when promoting their imperative message? Stick a camera in front of an Extinction Rebellion spokesperson and they turn into Super Hans, wide-eyed and trembling, wondering if his legs are on fire. One such spokesperson for the organisation, Zion Lights, appeared on the BBC last week to defend their position. It was painful to watch…

    A man dressed as a piece of broccoli went on Good Morning Britain this week. It’s probably funnier in the retelling, because in reality it was as funny as one of the joke candidates that stand for the Monster Raving Loony Party every general election – that is, about as funny as bowel cancer. The broccoli was such a dope even Piers Morgan, a man with the IQ of a stick of celery, managed to outsmart him.

    The broccoli was a representative of the vegan organisation Animal Rebellion, an offshoot of Extinction Rebellion, and when pressed on his political views, shrugged, “At the end of the day, I’m just a broccoli”. It was pointed out that the broccoli had no informed argument to make. And then you end up being in the depressing position of agreeing with Piers Morgan on something. Come Armageddon, come…READ ON
    https://www.nme.com/features/extinction-rebellion-get-facts-straight-2557749

    Zion Lights is perfect for CNN:

    15 Oct: CNN: London becomes first city to ban Extinction Rebellion protests
    by Eiza Macintosh
    “There have been draconian policing methods e.g. (in) Brisbane, and water cannons and violence used by police in Belgium. But this is the first ban,” Zion Lights, an Extinction Rebellion spokeswoman, told CNN by text message.
    “We are worried by this erosion of democracy while the real criminals continue to destroy the health of our planet,” she added…

    But they have also been criticized for their tactics. In a report released by centre-right think tank Policy Exchange, a former head of counter-terrorism for Scotland Yard warned that Extinction Rebellion should be treated as an extremist anarchist group and urged police to be more proactive in responding to their protests.
    CNN has reached out to Policy Exchange — rated among the least transparent think tanks in the UK by transparency campaign Who Funds You — for comment about how the report was funded…
    https://edition.cnn.com/2019/10/15/uk/extinction-rebellion-london-ban-gbr-intl/index.html

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  • #
    Maptram

    Henceforth to be known as Extinction Rebellion Rebellion or XRR

    10

  • #
    pat

    4 Oct: Guardian: Does Extinction Rebellion have a race problem?
    Critics say group is not doing enough to involve people of colour, or expose links between climate crisis and inequality
    by Damien Gayle
    It was just a tweet, and whoever sent it probably didn’t think much about it. It was a sunny day in July and environmental activists had blocked the Strand with a big blue boat.
    “Live from the royal courts of justice,” Extinction Rebellion London wrote. “It has been announced that all protesters arrested during the April rebellion will be prosecuted. We are asking the police and legal system to concentrate on issues such as knife crime, and not non-violent protesters who are trying to save our planet.”

    For those with ears tuned to hear it, the dogwhistle sounded clear. Stop bothering us non-violent protesters; focus instead on those frightening inner-city neighbourhoods, where black children carry knives.
    “It was feeding into a racist narrative,” says Guppi Bola, an activist with the Wretched of the Earth, an environmental group that focuses on black, brown and indigenous voices. “When those kinds of things come up, then of course you are not going to feel welcome.”

    In less than a year, Extinction Rebellion (XR) has established itself as one of the UK’s highest-profile environmental campaign groups. Its mass civil disobedience protests have helped raise concern over green issues to a record high (LINK ***YOUGOV POLL).
    Its representatives have met government ministers and spoken to MPs…

    But from the start XR has faced questions over its ability to reach out to diverse communities. Some critics go further, suggesting its tactics, its framing of key issues and a series of communications missteps show a carelessness around issues of race – or even institutional racism.
    As climate anxiety increases, XR says it has listened to the criticisms and is prepared to make changes in order to reach as many people as possible.
    But why is the movement so white? Why is that a problem? And what can be done to change it?

    XR’s lack of diversity is not unique to the wider environmental movement – a “white middle-class ghetto”, in the words of one NGO chief, with research in 2017 finding the “environment profession” – including workers at green NGOs – was the second least diverse of all sectors in the UK, after farming.
    So when a small group of activists got together in a Stroud living room last year to found a radical environmental movement (XR), it was no surprise that they were white, or that they have gone on to create a movement in their own image.
    With many of its key activists from rural or semi-rural areas, Extinction Rebellion rolls into town like the left wing of the Countryside Alliance. The protest culture of its core supporters is rooted in a new age hippy aesthetic of paisley robes, circus skills, camping, roll-ups and psytrance music….

    There was an effort to present the environment issue as “beyond politics” and to use language that could attract those on the right as much as the left. As a result, no one apparently thought to raise the alarm when the committee drafting the group’s founding document – a “declaration of rebellion” read out in Parliament Square last November – decided it should raise fears of “mass migration”.
    “There is a real threat of far-right xenophobia being fuelled through the narrative of climate change,” Bola said. The fear is that such rhetoric could prefigure a populist turn to eco-fascism – an end that Gail Bradbrook, XR’s co-founder, has said is among her greatest fears for the future…

    Priyamvada Gopal, a University of Cambridge don and antiracism campaigner, said: “There has certainly been a perception among people of colour that [XR] is white-led and sometimes inadequately cognisant of concerns around race, migration, empire and so on…

    On Thursday, at a press briefing for XR’s planned mass demonstrations that start on Monday, activists from ethnic minorities were much more prominent. The event was opened by the Asian environmentalist ***Zion Lights, who spoke of the struggles of indigenous communities…

    Yet people of colour in Britain remain less environmentally conscious than their white counterparts. Research last year by the NUS showed that students who identified as other than white were less likely to engage with environmental issues, and less likely to have changed their behaviour – such as using reusable cups – out of environmental concerns…
    https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2019/oct/04/extinction-rebellion-race-climate-crisis-inequality

    ***Guardian – like the YouGov data they link to – tries to link concern about the “environment” to concern about CAGW. they are not the same thing:

    ***5 Jun: YouGov: Concern for the environment at record highs
    by Matthew Smith
    It is now seen as the third most pressing issue facing the nation
    Today is World Environment Day, and YouGov data reveals that the public is more concerned about the environment than ever before. A quarter (27%) of Britons now cite the environment in their top three issues facing the country, putting it behind only Brexit (67%) and health (32%)…

    The sudden surge in concern is undoubtedly boosted by the publicity raised for the environmental cause by Extinction Rebellion, with the pressure group having staged mass protests in London over the course of April, and activism from Greta Thunberg during the same period. As recently as mid-April the number of people naming the environment as a primary problem facing Britain was down at 17%, meaning it ranked only as the sixth biggest issue…

    The previous record high had been 23% in February 2014, following a period of violent ***winter storms and flooding…
    LINKS: See the data for 2016-2019 here and for 2010-2015 here
    https://yougov.co.uk/topics/politics/articles-reports/2019/06/05/concern-environment-record-highs

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  • #
    pat

    reminder of the start of media creation XR:

    27 Oct 2018: Guardian: ‘We have a duty to act’: hundreds ready to go to jail over climate crisis
    Rowan Williams backs call for mass civil disobedience ‘to bypass the government’s inaction and defend life itself’
    by Matthew Taylor
    The group, called Extinction Rebellion, is today backed by almost 100 senior academics from across the UK, including the former archbishop of Canterbury Rowan Williams.
    In a letter published in the Guardian they say the failure of politicians to tackle climate breakdown and the growing extinction crisis means “the ‘social contract’ has been broken … [and] it is therefore not only our right, but our moral duty to bypass the government’s inaction and flagrant dereliction of duty, and to rebel to defend life itself.”…

    “It feels like we are tapping into something very powerful in terms of the frustration and urgency many people are feeling as the evidence mounts of the scale of the climate emergency we are facing,” said (Roger Hallam, one of the founders of the campaign), an academic at King’s College who specialises in social change and protest…
    “The planet is in ecological crisis – we are in the midst of the sixth mass extinction event this planet has experienced,” he said. “Children alive today in the UK will face the terrible consequences of inaction, from floods to wildfires, extreme weather to crop failures and the inevitable breakdown of society. We have a duty to act.”…

    Extinction Rebellion is part of the ***Rising Up activist group…
    And it follows dire warnings from the UN that there are only 12 years left to prevent global ecological disaster.

    Almost 100 academics – half of them professors – on Friday backed the call for rebellion…
    Last week the US politician Bernie Sanders posted a link to an article supporting Extinction Rebellion…
    Caroline Lucas, the Green party MP, is also supporting the plan and will be among the speakers at the launch in parliament next week…

    Gail Bradbrook, scientist and veteran of tax justice campaigns and the Occupy movement.
    “For years I have engaged with this ecological crisis on an intellectual level, the mounting evidence, the science … but now I have engaged with the potential destruction of this world on an emotional level and there is a fundamental difference. There is huge feeling of grief, of loss. I found myself bursting into tears, of feeling distant with longstanding friends”…

    Alison Green, pro vice-chancellor of Arden University and UK director of the Scientists Warning public engagement campaign (speaking in a personal capacity)
    “I have no formal background in environmental issues and am fairly senior in my organisation. But unlike some academics I have taken the time to look properly at the evidence and have come to the clear conclusion that we are facing an imminent and potentially catastrophic climate emergency.”…

    Rupert Read, academic at the University of East Anglia and Green party politician
    “I’ve taken part in civil disobedience before but not for the last 15 years. I’ve been prompted to again by the dire stakes of the climate breakdown we are now in the early throes of, and by the dire failure of our government (or any government, for that matter) to take these stakes seriously.
    The way that climate chaos has manifested in the last three years, with our weather systems perhaps beginning to spiral out of control, and especially the overheating of the Arctic, has been a big factor for me.”…
    https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2018/oct/26/we-have-a-duty-to-act-hundreds-ready-to-go-to-jail-over-climate-crisis

    27 Oct 2018: Guardian: Letter: Facts about our ecological crisis are incontrovertible. We must take action
    Humans cannot continue to violate the fundamental laws of nature or science with impunity, say 94 signatories including Dr Alison Green and Molly Scott Cato MEP
    We are in the midst of the sixth mass extinction, with about 200 species becoming extinct each day. Humans cannot continue to violate the fundamental laws of nature or of science with impunity.
    Our government is complicit in ignoring the precautionary principle, and in failing to acknowledge that infinite economic growth on a planet with finite resources is non-viable. Instead, the government irresponsibly promotes rampant consumerism and free-market fundamentalism, and allows greenhouse gas emissions to rise…
    We call for a Citizens’ Assembly to work with scientists on the basis of the extant evidence and in accordance with the precautionary principle, to urgently develop a credible plan for rapid total decarbonisation of the economy.
    SIGNATORIES
    https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2018/oct/26/facts-about-our-ecological-crisis-are-incontrovertible-we-must-take-action

    further academic silliness:

    13 Feb: Guardian: School climate strike children’s brave stand has our support
    We are inspired that our children, spurred on by the noble actions of Greta Thunberg and other striking students, are making their voices heard, say 224 academics
    We, the undersigned academics, stand in solidarity with the children going on school climate strike on 15 February, and with all those taking a stand for the future of the planet…
    We are inspired that our children, spurred on by the noble actions of Greta Thunberg and many other striking students all around the world, are making their voices heard…
    SIGNATORIES
    https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2019/feb/13/school-climate-strike-childrens-brave-stand-has-our-support

    Rising Up, which more or less morphed into XR:

    RisingUp.org.uk: About Us
    For press and publicity contact George (Barda)
    Rising Up! was formed by activists who have also been part of Compassionate Revolution, Earth First! Occupy, Plan Stupid, Radical Think Tank and Reclaim the Power. Rising Up! is linked to Compassionate Revolution which was birthed in the Occupy movement…
    Our Funding
    Rising Up! is run by volunteers . No one is paid for their work. Some of our expenses have been paid for by funders such as LUSH and we also crowdfund donations…

    40

  • #
    pat

    read all:

    17 Oct: Spiked: Finally, a rebellion against Extinction Rebellion
    Commuters of London, rise up against the eco-elitists
    by Brendan O’Neill
    The people are rising up against the elites. No, I don’t mean Extinction Rebellion. I mean the Rebellion against Extinction Rebellion. Today’s clashes on the Tube between the commuting working classes and the time-rich, bourgeois fearmongers of the XR cult is a wonderful illustration of the elitist nature of eco-politics and of rising public fury with the eco-agenda…
    https://www.spiked-online.com/2019/10/17/finally-a-rebellion-against-extinction-rebellion/

    meanwhile, endless PR for the wonderful XR:

    18 Oct: AFR: Extinction Rebellion aren’t the usual activists
    Here’s how economic school dropout and failed farmer Roger Hallam founded and grew a global protest organisation in just 18 months.
    by Martin Fletcher (AT BOTTOM – from ***The New Statesman)
    On the face of it, the Heathrow Pause protest failed. It tied up hundreds of police officers, but came nowhere close to shutting Heathrow down, and caused no disruption to passengers – unlike the British Airways pilots’ strike on September 27.
    The organisers see it differently. They gained a lot of publicity in the mainstream and on social media…

    (Roger Hallam) went back to university and studied politics part-time at Swansea. That led to a PhD at King’s College London on how to bring about radical political change through direct action. His studies were practical, not theoretical. He helped organise a successful rent strike by students at University College London, fought for the rights of Deliveroo and other casual workers, and forced King’s to divest from fossil fuel companies…

    One day he had an epiphany when he heard an announcement about rising global temperatures while driving back to Wales and realised climate change was real and deadly serious. He broke down in tears.
    It was, he says, “like finding out about your own death. That’s when I knew the rest of my life was definitely going to be on the climate crisis. I moved away from doing the labour-organising thing, which I love, because it’s great fun taking down capitalists. I don’t want to do this type of work really because it’s so traumatising for everyone involved. It’s enormously emotionally upsetting.

    “With climate change it’s like everything you ever loved is going to get destroyed. Your children are going to die of starvation. What we need to do is completely transform the economy in five years, and take carbon out of the atmosphere, and even if we do that we are almost certainly going to go extinct. As a reasonably intelligent analyst that’s the reality. That’s not nice on any level.”

    In 2016, Hallam met Gail Bradbrook, a molecular biophysicist and fellow campaigner for social change. They helped start the radical campaigning organisation Rising Up!, which spawned Extinction Rebellion in the spring of 2018…READ ON
    https://www.afr.com/politics/rebels-with-a-cause-the-rise-and-rise-of-extinction-rebellion-20191014-p530h5

    30

  • #
    pat

    Twitter: Zion Lights
    re-tweets:
    Tweet: Prof Peter Strachan, Researching Sustainability, Renewables & the Future of Energy
    Bank of England boss says global finance is funding 4C temperature rise
    “#MarkCarney says capital markets are financing projects likely to fuel a catastrophic rise in #globalheating”
    #ExtinctionRebellion
    #ClimateEmergency
    #EnergyTransition
    ***LINK Guardian
    16 Oct 2019

    (RE CANNING STREET)
    7h ago re-tweets:
    Tweet: ***Ash Sarkar, Contributing Editor @novaramedia. Literature bore. Anarcho-fabulous…communism now!
    The action was poorly thought through, but you don’t have to be a fan of XR to see that this hyper-masculine mob violence is driven by a deeper loathing of protest. That should have us all worried. VIDEO
    https://twitter.com/ziontree

    ***Wikipedia: Ash Sarkar, senior editor at Novara Media and teaches at the Sandberg Institute.
    In 2017, she taught Global Politics at Anglia Ruskin University.
    Sarkar is a contributor to The Guardian and The Independent and is a regular commentator on politics and society in UK broadcast and online media…
    Sarkar says that, as a child, her mother briefly met Mao Zedong while in Beijing…
    She gained undergraduate and masters degrees in English Literature from University College London…
    (appears on) shows including Have I Got News For You, Question Time, Good Morning Britain, Sky News, Channel 4, Daily Politics, and Newsnight…
    In her writings and commentary, Sarkar has expressed anti-imperialist, feminist and anti-fascist views. She has taken part in anti-racist, anti-fascist and anti-Trump protests…
    After a clip of her telling Piers Morgan on Good Morning Britain that she was “literally a communist!” went viral, Sarkar clarified her views as libertarian communist, a “long termist” who supports Labour Party leader Jeremy Corbyn’s anti-austerity policies…
    Although she is not a Labour Party member, Sarkar (and Novara Media more generally) has become closely associated in media commentary with Jeremy Corbyn’s democratic socialist project.
    The Times has described her as “Britain’s loudest Corbynista”, and Dazed magazine said she is one of “the voices resetting the political agenda in the UK”.

    16 Oct: Guardian: Bank of England boss says global finance is funding 4C temperature rise
    Mark Carney says capital markets are financing projects likely to fuel a catastrophic rise in global heating
    by Richard Partington
    The governor of the Bank of England has warned that the global financial system is backing carbon-producing projects that will raise the temperature of the planet by over 4C – more than double the pledge to limit increases to well below 2C contained in the Paris Agreement.
    In a stark warning over global heating, Mark Carney said the multitrillion-dollar international capital markets – where companies raise funds by selling shares and bonds to investors – are financing activities that would lift global temperatures to more than 4C above pre-industrial levels…

    But in a stark illustration of the scale of the decarbonisation challenge facing the world economy, Carney suggested companies had already secured financing from investors in the global capital markets – worth $85tn (£67.2tn) for stocks and $100tn for bonds – that will keep the world on a trajectory consistent with catastrophic global heating.
    The risks associated with temperatures at or above 4C include a 9-metre rise in sea levels – affecting up to 760 million people – searing heatwaves and droughts, serious food supply problems and half of all animal and plant species facing local extinction…
    Carney sounded the alarm in the wake of the Guardian last week revealing the 20 biggest companies behind a third of all carbon emissions…

    He said that banks should be forced to disclose their climate-linked risks within the next two years, and said that more information would prompt investors to penalise and reward firms accordingly.
    Threadneedle Street is currently drafting a stress test for the UK’s banks based on their climate exposures, he added…

    “It’s not as simple as saying, ‘Well I’m going to invest in only renewable energy.’ The system as a whole cannot invest only in renewable energy.
    “The contribution of manufacturing or an industrial company in terms of lowering their carbon footprint over the next decade, a big reduction in that, can be as significant if not more significant than further development in the short term on renewables,” he said.
    Carney also dropped a heavy hint that the government would shake-up the Bank’s remit for financial supervision to take account of climate risks at the budget on 6 November…
    https://www.theguardian.com/business/2019/oct/15/bank-of-england-boss-warns-global-finance-it-is-funding-climate-crisis

    30

  • #
    Wayne Job

    A suggestion in dealing with these idiots would be to arm oneself with large zip ties. Get them of the train with a minimum of fuss and zip tie their hands and feet to a post or a fence.
    In the london underground I am sure there would be plenty of willing helpers.

    30

  • #
    PeterS

    This event is really just a small taste of what will happen if the XR cult continues on with their stupid actions, especially if they become more disruptive. More and more people will become so frustrated with their antics they will have no option but to retaliate with equal or greater force, good or bad. To prevent it from happening the police do really need to be quick to act and arrest the XR cultists whenever they step over the line as they have done at the event in question.

    40

    • #
      el gordo

      Its not so bad, disruptive tactics aren’t the same as a terrorist attack. Which is probably why people are a little jumpy, its only recent history, so they settle for being more than a little grumpy.

      10

      • #
        PeterS

        I agree they are not in the same league as terrorists attacks but they still can escalate to major riots as they have in the past many times when both sides let go. You underestimate how bad things will become for the innocent victims of society who want to go about their own business and not be attacked by extremists. Look what happened to Andrew Bolt not long ago when he was accosted on a street. Was he justified in hitting back? Self-defence often becomes a necessity.

        50

  • #

    Note how the GeeUppers have been able to get a handle on some other commenters here. Skeptics can now be accused of approving….vigilantism! Charles Bronson has risen from the grave!

    A perfect result for GeeUp and the funders of the giant stunt which is XR.

    Take away their power. Be unreactive. Be above violence. Turn off their refuse media. Give their stunts much ridicule but no emotion.

    Steal their dreams. Steal their childhoods.

    52

    • #
      robert rosicka

      well put Mosomo .

      20

      • #

        Another caution: these scripted stunts often have provocateurs, controllers and designated handlers (red shirts or caps etc) in the crowd. Applauding or approving any violence can fit the intentions of the manipulators, who are prepped to play the parts of angry crowd members as well as crowd victims. Remember: it’s a stunt. It is not real. Don’t be an unpaid prop.

        Even name-calling and strong language are mistakes. We need to follow the Richie Benaud principle: always do what the opponent least wants you to do. I’d suggest cold, unresponsive ridicule alternating with indifference is what XR dread most.

        Closer to home, who believes that the GeeUppers etc won’t be extracting lots of juice (and useful quotes) from any emotional reactions on our part? They may not be as clever as they think, but in matters of manipulation they haven’t just fallen off the turnip truck.

        20

    • #
      theRealUniverse

      Interesting, after a google search of XR, I see they claim to have funding from an outfit called ….Rising Up,…

      20

  • #
    Dave in the States

    This and the yellow vests, and Ditch farmers are just a first taste of what will happen if these useful ….. er should I say fools XR types start getting even a small portion of their agenda implemented. Such sweeping changes to society has historically been accompanied by war. Civil wars will be result. People will not simply comply and give up their freedom and their lifestyles if climate action policies become enforced law. There will be a counter revolution and it will not be nonviolent.

    20

    • #
      OriginalSteve

      I would agree with that, but wont enjoy it.

      Question – If govt preaches the lie of climate change, will it make itself a target also by a ticked off public eventually? If climate change is part of the school curriculum, then is it working with XR in effect?

      It appears XR may be just the kite flying phase to see how people are going to react. If XR is deemed successful, the organizers will up the ante possibly with greater but targetted violence.

      Interesting theories floating around at the moment about all this.

      30

  • #
    RicDre

    Somewhat off topic but XR Related:

    Open Letter: Extinction Rebellion Climate Celebrities Admit Their Hypocrisy – But Blame Everyone Else

    https://wattsupwiththat.com/2019/10/17/extinction-rebellion-admit-climate-hypocrisy-but-blame-the-system/

    10

    • #
      Maptram

      From the link

      “And here is Sir David Attenborough on 3rd December 2018 :
      “Right now, we are facing a man-made disaster of global scale. Our greatest threat in thousands of years. Climate change. If we don’t take action, the collapse of our civilisations and the extinction of much of the natural world is on the horizon.”
      Climate change is happening faster and more furiously than was predicted; millions of people are suffering, leaving their homes and arriving on our borders as refugees.”

      I thought it was war and terrorism that was causing millions of people to suffer and become refugees, not climate change

      70

  • #
    TdeF

    Thinking again about the underground. I have experienced many. London. New York. Chicago. Shanghai. Paris. St. Petersburg. Moscow. Sydney. Melbourne. Lisbon. And they are not friendly fun places but dark caves where life is on hold while you commute as if in a giant ant farm. As nice as you can make it, but they often have all the charm of a crowded and tiled public toilet.

    There is pressure to get down fast, get on fast, get out fast, get back into the air and the sunshine. People become automatons. In Paris they licence buskers to lighten the atmosphere and the stations in Moscow are beautiful, but nothing makes you happy or comfortable. The angst is palpable. You endure it. This is where you feel the worst aspects of a crowded uncaring metropolis until the train emerges into the light. There is relief when you exit.

    To create trouble in the underground, to delay people, to make it clear you want to trap them, make them miserable, stop their exit would produce an crowd response, an anger you would not get on the surface. People are not cheerful, tolerant, up for it, a bit of harmless fun. They will drag you off the roof, anything to stop you wrecking their day. If there was one place demonstrators should not go with the intent of making people’s lives difficult, it is the underground. I think these people were lucky it was London.

    130

    • #
      Peter C

      I have also been on a few underground railways;

      Hongkong and Singapore came up very well. After that I give top points to Moscow for beautiful station decorations (and very clean) then Berlin.

      Melbourne and Sydney are ok but some graffiti and rubbish. Also the train frequency is not as good.

      London and Paris are quite old and miserable but the very worst by a long way is New York city!

      60

  • #
    JB

    Perhaps we should make these protesters conform to their own dogma. Find where they live and disconnect electricity, gas and water. This would help in a small way to reduce ‘greenhouse gas emissions’ as would cancelling any motor vehicle registrations they may have.

    100

    • #
      • #
        Graeme No.3

        No way. Who wants a polluted beach.
        Surely you in NZ have a boiling mud pool not needed for the tourist trade?
        On further thought I doubt that would even muffle U No Who.

        50

        • #
          Greg in NZ

          G #3,

          been away working all w/e and I come home to find my first [snip!] evah! Probably long overdue.

          There is a hot spot called Kerosene Creek which has, sadly, long been polluted by ‘the tourist trade’.

          Don’t get your head in the water: the amoebas will eat your brain!

          Too late for some Eek! Stinkies.

          00

  • #

    Hurt them in their hypocratic nerve. )

    40

  • #
    Orson Olson

    What a LOL joy! to see these fascists get a taste of people’s justice! “right in the kisser” goes the line 1950s TV show, “The Honeymooners” That’s “How sweet it is!”

    60

  • #
    Chad

    No midweek unthreaded ?
    How about an earlt week end UT ?

    40

    • #
      gee aye

      I’ve got the chant…let’s hope it works

      earlt week end UT
      earlt week end UT
      earlt week end UT
      earlt week end UT
      earlt week end UT

      15

    • #
      Environment Skeptic

      Next weekend unthreaded,…I would like to talk about the fundamental mechanics of a greenhouse that incorporates CO2 as the fundamental greenhouse gas used as ‘plant food’ in the greenhouse industry…..the greenhouse CO2 plant food dilemma must be addressed somehow….do we just dump greenhouses that feed plants with CO2 and risk tractor riots?

      30

      • #
        Kalm Keith

        I don’t think that there’s any cause for concern.

        They’re using recycled CO2.

        KK

        20

        • #
          Environment Skeptic

          In my thesis that i am writing, using my skills as a writer, i will be explaining that CO2 is a greenhouse gas fundamental to the operation of greenhouses….and how that is why it is a greenhouse gas…and so on…..because it is a greenhouse gas used in greenhouses

          00

        • #
          Environment Skeptic

          If humans are inside the greenhouse where the greenhouse gas CO2 is being used to feed plants in a greenhouse, yes you are right Kalm Keith, there will be some recycled CO2 because humans breath out CO2 which is recycled for the plants to eat.

          00

      • #
        David-of-Cooyal-in-Oz

        Don’t forget the all round glass…..
        Cheers Dave B

        10

  • #
    David Wojick

    In my view the XR transport blockers are doing something dangerous, in effect daring innocent people to resist. They are saying “I am stopping you, to make a point to somebody else, and I dare you to do something about it.”

    If they get hurt it is their fault, not the fault of the people that take the dare. If you push people they will push back. The forbearance to date has actually been remarkable but it cannot last. The police are now protecting the demonstrators by removing them.

    Rational demonstrations target the target, not innocent bystanders. The XR demonstrations are just as irrational as their beliefs.

    60

  • #
    David Wojick

    Mainstream greens fussing about XR:
    https://mailchi.mp/climatehome/neutralit-2050-climate-weekly-2685875?e=edd9ee2911

    “Even XR, with its revolutionary creed, has skin in public opinion. It is trying to convince elected MPs to sign up to a bill that satisfies its manifesto to cut emissions to zero in five years. Its third demand, creating a citizens’ climate assembly, shows it remains deeply aligned to democratic power.

    It can’t win if the defining image of two weeks of enormous human effort, bravery, crowdfunded cash and camaraderie will be Extinction Rebellion, embodied by two blokes on top of a train, setting itself against the rest of the public, just trying to get to work.”

    No mention that zero emissions in five years is looney.

    00

  • #
    Carp

    I was thinking about appropriate punishments for XR protestors who block the road and I thought “why not disqualify them from driving?” They are preventing other people from driving so it would be poetic justice.

    30

  • #
    Carp

    Is it antisemitic to criticize Zion Lights? I’m sure it would be if a member of the British Labour Party did it.

    10

  • #
    Carp

    Zion Lights is also a piece of music:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TtMWluVcnEI

    It’s quite pleasant but rather repetitive.

    00

  • #
    Another Ian

    Stretching your extremities

    “Extinction Rebellion: Metro Climate Protest Attackers were Stressed by Ecological Collapse”

    https://wattsupwiththat.com/2019/10/18/extinction-rebellion-metro-climate-protest-attackers-were-stressed-by-ecological-collapse/

    00

  • #
    Salome

    Falling into an angry crowd, those protesters can thank the better nature of said crowd for the fact that they are still breathing and walking. The crowd’s restraint is commendable.

    10

  • #
    WXcycles

    When hipsters go feral.

    00

  • #
    Chapman

    Clowns. Should be prosecuted for causing a public nuisance .

    00

  • #
    Serp

    Zion Lights is very poor talent, the sort of act that gives showbiz a bad name. Stopped watching within seconds.

    [Who is Zion lights? Should I care? Sorry? Is it on topic? - Jo]

    51

  • #
    David Wojick

    Re ZL, see #40 above, including this:

    15 Oct: CNN: London becomes first city to ban Extinction Rebellion protests
    by Eiza Macintosh
    “There have been draconian policing methods e.g. (in) Brisbane, and water cannons and violence used by police in Belgium. But this is the first ban,” Zion Lights, an Extinction Rebellion spokeswoman, told CNN by text message.
    “We are worried by this erosion of democracy while the real criminals continue to destroy the health of our planet,” she added…

    10

  • #
    David-of-Cooyal-in-Oz

    G’day Serp and Jo,
    Re Zion Lights:
    Roger, at #1.2 above, gave a link which fully explains her, thanks Roger:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H3kJwQBZOkM

    A great interview, clear picture and sound, and runs for 8 mins 32secs.
    She’s very knowledgable – she references Michael Mann, sorry Professor Mann.
    Cheers
    Dave B

    10

  • #

    On topic? Sheesh as much as 2/3 of the comments here

    00

  • #
    Roy Hogue

    I keep wondering what these types, whether XR, or some other hope to end up with. How far can you go when your objective is to tear down something rather than build or create something.

    It’s a long time now since Ralph Nader ran for U.S. president. But during both election years I remember asking myself, why would I vote for someone whose whole career was to tear down what others had built. Where does he expect that to lead? I suspect these XR people, like others before them should ask a similar question, where am I going, am I building something good or am I just destroying, just causing trouble. People don’t respond well to destroyers. Ralph Nader never became president and this bunch will be on the outside looking in. They will have lots of company and the world won’t be better off for their having been around.

    20

  • #
  • #
    Roy Hogue

    I should point out that the removal of the protesters from their positions of protest and obstruction by those who were affected by them is probably the best form of justice there is: immediate; carried out by those being hurt by the problem; no one was reported injured; the protesters are left standing there with egg on their faces. A good result from a bad situation is a good thing.

    This is not something I would advocate. But it’s hard to deny its effectiveness or the message it sends to others who would try something similar — we aren’t going to tolerate you.

    00

  • #
    Serp

    Yes, the post at #63 was a reply to Roger at #1.2 (as can be seen by its time stamp) which, through that familiar yet to be explained and corrected software bug which bedevils this site, has migrated to a position near the end of the thread where it stands as a sort of lonely widow; good pickup David-of-Cooyal-in-Oz.

    00

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