JoNova

A science presenter, writer, speaker & former TV host; author of The Skeptic's Handbook (over 200,000 copies distributed & available in 15 languages).


Handbooks


Advertising


Australian Speakers Agency



GoldNerds

The nerds have the numbers on precious metals investments on the ASX



The Skeptics Handbook

Think it has been debunked? See here.

The Skeptics Handbook II

Climate Money Paper



Archives

There’s a myth that Old Coal plants are failing and can’t handle summer heat

Media elements in Australia are pushing the myth that aging coal plants are failing and that they can’t handle summer heat as if a plant with an operating temperature of 570°C plus will work at 38°C and fail at 40°C. It’s a hot topic today because AGL has just flagged an extended outage of seven months for one unit at Loy Yang A2. That may linger well into summer — potentially out of action til mid January. Ouch. The outage may wipe $100m off AGL’s profits, though if it pushes up wholesale prices, maybe not. With one more billion-dollar-summer-spike AGL may even come out ahead…

Old coal plants don’t have to die, we can just keep fixing them. The owners of Vales Point coal plant in NSW have a plan to keep it running up to 70 years.

Paul McArdle, expert grid generator analyst, who writes at WattClarity, protests at the repeated misinformation and points out that there has been no increase in “sudden trips” as the Australian fleet of coal power stations ages. Nor are these failures more likely in summer. It’s just that we notice them more then. He points out that the failure rate across the whole coal fleet in Australia is not rising, and that there was a six month outage in 2001 at Loy Yang A4 — obviously when it was much younger.

Brief Comment on the Extended Outage at Loy Yang A unit 2

Paul McArdle says we’re playing Russian Roulette with the grid and it’s a world class mess:

As we have explained through the Generator Report Card, that overall level of risk has been escalating in recent years (for a number of reasons).  It’s like we’ve been playing Russian Roulette with the grid/market, but with more loaded chambers than there used to be.

Thermal units are not going offline due to aging:

For instance, our deep analysis in the Generator Report Card does not show a clear systemic trend across the 48 operational coal units for them becoming less reliable as a fleet (though readers might like to reference these notes specific AGL units).  Here’s that chart from the Report Card again that looks at one measure of “Sudden Failure” in this broader framework of “dependability”:

Againg coal plants, failure rate, graph. Watt Clarity.

Aging coal plants: failure rate is not rising.   |  Watt Clarity.

Coal plants are not more likely to fail in summer heat:

Readers will also note that the highest bars in most years tend not to be during the hottest months of the year, which is also interesting in the context of claims that “coal units break down more in the heat”.  What do seem to be the case are two things:
1)  Firstly (because there are fewer units, and because demand is increasingly peaky) a small number of outages during times of high demand places much more stress on the grid than used to be the case; and
2)  Because there are an increasing number of NEM observers equipped with the latest tools (some of them ours), and because we all know that summer is the critical time, we notice outages a lot more when they happen during summer

McArdle is no climate skeptic but can see how one-eyed and emotive the media are on generators. Perhaps he’ll notice one day that the bias against scientific arguments is even more aggressive, emotive and packed with fake news.

Both sides of politics call the failure a reason to do the complete opposite.

“The announcement from AGL that a Loy Yang coal generation unit will be out until December highlights why our transition to cleaner, more reliable renewable energy is so important,” a [Victorian, Labor] government spokesman said.

Federal Energy Minister Ang­us Taylor said the cut to supply­ underlined the need for the Coal­ition’s newly formed retailer relia­bility obligation to ensure enough generation existed to meet power users’ needs from July 1.

–Perry Williams, The Australian

People pushing this myth include Lily D’Ambrosio, Victorian Minister for Energy.

VN:F [1.9.22_1171]
Rating: 9.8/10 (78 votes cast)
There's a myth that Old Coal plants are failing and can't handle summer heat, 9.8 out of 10 based on 78 ratings

Tiny Url for this post: http://tinyurl.com/y59jakmk

176 comments to There’s a myth that Old Coal plants are failing and can’t handle summer heat

  • #

    What gets me is that the people who push renewables so ardently always complain when a coal fired Unit goes off line, almost like, well, they rely on them.

    Funny, isn’t it, that just as AGL announces that there is a problem with their Loy Yang A plant, that all four Units at the same Company’s ancient old clunker Liddell are all back on line, first time I’ve see that for a long long time.

    Tony.

    620

    • #
      Ian1946

      Tony, according to my understanding, the distance from Liddell to Victoria means that due to transmission losses that power would not be available to them.

      Is that correct?

      180

    • #
      TdeF

      Then Hazelwood was running at over 95% of original design output when closed. Forever. They still had 20 years to run on the lease they bought from the Victoria government who had just tripled the price of coal. Obviously a maintenance issue.

      450

    • #
      OriginalSteve

      The green weenies always complain if they cant recharge thier iphones…..and everything given to them by capitalism.

      Politics is a dirty and messy business, and nothing is a bigger mess than that made by the Left of the facts about coal reliability.

      200

    • #
      Geoff

      Queensland has produced another export record in the 12 months ending in April, with resource exports delivering more than $65 billion of the $85.2 billion.

      Coal remains the state’s number one export and is growing, increasing by almost $4 billion to $36.5 billion in the 12 months ending in April and doubling over the last four years.

      China was Queensland’s largest export destination over the period, with $28.5 billion – an increase of $7.1 billion from the year to April 2018.

      Japan was the state’s second largest export destination with $12.2 billion, representing an increase of $372.9 million.

      King Coal Rules. It gets bigger every year. Only Australia could run out of domestic energy while being the world’s largest supplier of same. Government will lie straight to your face just to get the green vote. In Victoria we do zip about our largest pot of gold, the Gippsland Basin. The value of this one basin represents US$130T in todays dollars (Australia’s GDP is US$1.2T). Victorians have done everything possible to destroy their economy but somehow it survives because of massive immigration and land price rises (inflation). EVERY Victorian could be paid $100k EVERY year for 100 years.

      Next time we hear about Rio or BHP and how they were good CO2 citizens and got out of coal we should feel sorry for their shareholders. These companies are driven by UK regulations and greeny activism from “feel good” super boards. The uses for carbon are rapidly expanding. The only sure thing is that Rio and BHP will NOT be participants. If carbon moves in on the steel and copper markets their virtue signalling strategy is not going to well thought out. Political thinking does not work long term in mining.

      Meanwhile AGL want to import methane. Amazing! The NW of Victoria is crammed with gas. The government is saving us by stopping drilling but promoting its importation.

      270

      • #
        David-of-Cooyal-in-Oz

        Morning Geoff,
        And NSW is a regular importer of Qld electricity as our demand regularly exceeds supply, so I regularly say a quiet “thank you” for your not-yet-ageing coal fired fleet.
        My source is the AEMO dashboard, which I also look at regularly.
        Cheers
        Dave B

        120

      • #
        OriginalSteve

        Meanwhile in la la land….

        A new mining boom……building cars that cant be charged due to a collapsed an or/unstable electricity grid…..

        “Electric cars and wind turbines could be pivotal to fuelling the next outback mining boom, with resource companies and start-ups worried Australia is not making the most of a new wave of mining activity across the nation.

        “As scientist Ray Wooldridge tells it from his laboratory in Pine Creek, two hours south of Darwin, “lithium is one of the flavours of the moment”.

        “Mr Wooldridge spends his time analysing minerals being dug out of the ground by resource companies, and recently he has been studying a lot of this soft, silvery-white metal.
        “It’s pretty substantial. It’s really been building up the last few years,” Mr Wooldridge said.
        Lithium is piquing the interest of mining companies due to it being a key component in batteries for renewable energy storage and electric vehicles.

        “There are no active lithium mines in the Territory but an ASX-listed company is hoping to open the first next year.
        “In Western Australia, lithium is booming. In the past decade the state has gone from having just one lithium mine to seven, turning Australia into the world’s biggest exporter of the mineral.

        “And it is not just lithium that has seen this interest, said Gavin Mudd, an associate professor of engineering at RMIT University in Melbourne.

        “There’s been an increasing demand for a lot of metals we call critical,” he said.

        30

        • #
          Ted O'Brien.

          Before putting your money on lithium check out graphene. Can it emulate the silicon chip on production costs?

          50

          • #
            John PAK

            Graphene capacitors from Skeleton Tech are impressive. I’m looking at assembling a starting “battery” for my 4.2 diesel work vehicle from 5 of their 3000 Farad capacitors which are the size of a Coke can. The suggestion is that they will outlast the vehicle and recharge in only a few minutes. Lithium is popular but not ideally suited to rapid charge and discharge and few people are talking about the recycling costs of all the millions of batteries in 2030.

            60

          • #
            Graeme#4

            Graphene may also have a future in displays, as theoretically it’s possible to build very high resolution displays using graphene.

            11

        • #
          Graeme#4

          I believe that it may not be possible to extract any more energy density out of lithium batteries. So I’m not sure that lithium has much of a future.

          20

  • #
    Serge Wright

    ““The announcement from AGL that a Loy Yang coal generation unit will be out until December highlights why our transition to cleaner, more reliable renewable energy is so important,” a [Victorian, Labor] government spokesman said.”

    Herein lies Labor’s problem. Despite the NEM data showing the enormously intermittent output, including periods at night where total RE is only 5% of nameplate capacity, they still believe that wind and solar are more reliable than almost 24/7 coal, even despite a SA system black event. It would seem that the only way to convice these people is to send them all to SA and disconnect the extension cord permanently. After a few years of living without refrigeration, heating and lighting they might start to understand what the voting pubic has already woken up to.

    571

    • #
      Bill in Oz

      Serge
      don’t be stupid ! we here in South Australia have a hard enough as it is without ‘renewable refugees’ from elsewhere creating even more havoc !

      270

  • #
    Ian1946

    The ignorance shown by the Victorian energy minister is breathtaking in it’s depth. It will be Victoria that will be blacked out when SA wind is zero and the BassLink cable is at maximum. No mechanical equipment can run 24/7 indefinitely. Maintenance is unavoidable and as Tony points out it is usually done in the autumn or spring when demand is lower. A major failure can happen at any time and if insufficient backup is available the load shedding/blackouts are unavoidable.

    NSW rarely generates sufficient power to meet demand relying on Queensland to keep the lights on.

    Angus Taylor needs to start building new HELE power stations now overriding the States. The power supply is too important to be left to Labor idealouges.

    570

    • #
      OriginalSteve

      Is the ignorance deliberate?

      Think of The Cause, Comrade….

      Dangerous Dan mught enjoy a hammer and sickle flag flying over Spring Street, but the rest if the population wont….

      270

      • #
        Ted O'Brien.

        Yes. It’s deliberate. It’s another political lie.

        And, Ian. The government should not be building any power stations unless nationalising the entire generation system. What the government should be doing is trash the notion that CO2 is harmful, and remove all the taxes and subsidies that corrupt the electricity market. Even if that costs many billions of dollars in compensation to inestors who have in good faith invested in the subsidy collection industry since the RET was legislated at the current level.

        Then the power stations can build themselves.

        230

  • #
    Graeme No.3

    Not just boilers but other equipment. Back in the 70′s I worked in several factories where the steam was used by stationary 2 stage ‘marine’ steam engines driving generators. Newer steam engines had dates like 1911 on them, but most were older.
    They’d been used on ships then sold off when the ships were converted to diesel motors or to scrap.
    When I left the company was installing a second hand boiler from 1944 (de-rated to 750 p.s.i. after 20+ years storage).

    300

  • #
    Dave

    AGL love short supply of coal generation!
    It means $ per MW go through the roof!

    Here is AGL portfolio of Generators!

    They may lose a couple of million from Loy Yang, but the Wind and Solar will rake it in!

    Loy Yang A also resulted in 2019 January biggest profits because a unit closed down a well!
    They are parasites on a failing system because of renewables!

    430

    • #
      Ted O'Brien.

      Dave that’s how I see it. Public interest doesn’t get a look in!

      The newspaper report I read said the failure of Loy Yang would cost AGL $100 million. This I doubt.

      90

  • #
    Graham

    Good article, confirms what I already believed.
    I do not trust AGL for one minute, their behaviour in NSW, with the planned closure of Liddell and their refusal to sell it, suggest they are deliberately trying to destabilise an already shaky system.
    It must be remembered they are a gas company, so what better set up can you have than be supplying gas to yourself and using it for generating power to capitalise on a system that you helped destabilise. Building gas power plants in NSW is cynical because NSW does not have sufficient pipeline capacity to run the plants for anything other than short bursts.
    I cannot believe how a first class electricity system is being dismantled before our eyes.

    500

    • #
      PeterS

      I cannot believe how a first class electricity system is being dismantled before our eyes.

      If done by any other group it would be called an act of terrorism. Go figure. Let’s hope Morrison steps up to the plate and does something to force AGL to keep Liddell running at least until it’s replaced by a modern coal fired power station.

      390

    • #
      theRealUniverse

      I saw today on auntie banana republic (ABC) news that AGL is trying to get into broadband or data business. Maybe that due to this..’The announcement from AGL that a Loy Yang coal generation unit will be out until December’

      10

  • #
    WXcycles

    The inner Sith Lord hopes for a series of ruinous rolling blackouts.

    210

    • #
      Sceptical Sam

      If thee Sith Lords run rampant then the dark side of the earth will be universal, 24/7.

      Will no one take on the mantle of the Jedi?

      20

  • #
  • #
    Hanrahan

    Heads they win, tails we lose.

    80

  • #
    Ruairi

    Old turbines are never quite done,
    And if serviced will run, run and run,
    Which on coal can rely,
    Giving constant supply,
    Through hard frosts and hot summer sun.

    330

  • #
    Zigmaster

    The irony about outages caused by coal power plant issues highlights how dangerous it is to have intermittent power. Everyone knows that coal power / or base load power backs up intermittent renewables , renewables can’t back up renewables . The only response to this news has to be that more base load power generation needs to be created now, whether that is new coal, nuclear or gas or proper maintenance of existing plants. The worst interpretation is to think we need more renewables. In fact the overloading of the grid with more renewables will only make it more unreliable. It actually infuriates me when an outage like this is so deliberately misinterpreted by activists and politicians to help the labor states push their reckless agenda.

    250

    • #
      ivan

      Try telling that to the brainwashed politicians, if you keep up long enough it might get past the money they are being paid to ignore reality.

      The only time it will make sense to them is when the country shuts down because there is no power being produved.

      130

  • #
    Yonniestone

    Summer heat affecting industrial thermal plants LOL.

    Iron ore smelting over 1000C done in hot climates globally.

    Or try Aluminium smelting where the melting point of pure alumina is 2,054 degrees C (3,729 degrees F) but is achieved in countries like,

    Bahrain, Brazil, China, India, Iran, Mozambique, Nigeria, Oman, Qatar, Saudi Arabia, South Africa, Spain, UAE (Dubai), Turkey, Vietnam.

    Yeah locations carefully chosen for their naturally cold climates so industrial thermal plants don’t crap out all the time…../sarc.

    200

    • #
      Yonniestone

      Oops forgot to add the only reason thermal plants shut down is overinflated power prices caused by an ass-hat engineered intermittent energy (renewables) supply.

      180

    • #
      RickWill

      The clever part of industrial aluminium production is to dissolve the alumina in cryolite at 950C. Tis hot but a long way short of the melting point of alumina. Aluminium pots are not as thermally demanding as modern steam boilers in power generation.

      80

  • #
    pat

    the Forbes contributor below:

    Tilak Doshi: I have worked in the oil and gas sector as an economist in both private industry and in think tanks, in Asia, the Middle East and the US over the past 25 years. I focus on global energy developments from the perspective of Asian countries that remain large markets for oil, gas and coal. I have written extensively on the areas of economic development, environment and energy economics. My publications include “Singapore in a Post-Kyoto World: Energy, Environment and the Economy” published by the Institute of Southeast Asian Studies (2015). I won the 1984 Robert S. McNamara Research Fellow award of the World Bank and received my Ph.D. in Economics in 1992.

    7 Jun: Forbes: In Coal We Trust: The Need For Coal Power In Asia
    by Tilak Doshi
    The demonization of fossils fuels in general, and coal in particular, has been wrought under pressure from special interests groups and organized lobbies of the climate-industrial complex where aspects of economic reality are caricatured or presented out of context. Complex trade-offs in energy policy are spun into tales of spurious simplicity, leading to misleading conclusions. Nowhere is this more apparent than in the debate over the role of coal-fueled power generation in Asia.

    Opposition to the building of coal power plants in the poorer countries has been justified by environmental activists, banks and multilateral development agencies such as the World Bank in two key ways. The first revolves around the claim that climate change mitigation programs carry “co-benefits” for public health in developing countries. The second utilizes the assertion that renewable energy such as solar and wind power are effective substitutes for centralized grid electricity generated by fossil fuels.
    Climate change policy does not help the poor…

    By early 2019, China had announced, permitted or was constructing almost 200 GW of coal power capacity, equivalent to over 75% of the entire operating US coal fleet (the world’s second largest after China). The relevant figures for India and countries in Southeast Asia are 95 GW and 75GW. China, India and Southeast Asia together account for 81.5% of global coal power capacity under construction, amounting to over 190 GW…READ ALL
    https://www.forbes.com/sites/tilakdoshi/2019/06/07/in-coal-we-trust-the-need-for-coal-power-in-asia/#3f0a4d0c1222

    100

  • #
    pat

    ***written by two Conservative MPs:

    10 Jun: UK Times: Theresa May should look to climate change for a positive legacy
    by ***Simon Clarke and Alex Chalk
    Away from Brexit’s sound and fury there are matters on which there is almost total unanimity across the parliamentary party. None more so than climate change, where we have quietly been delivering success after success. We’ve seen six consecutive years of falling greenhouse gas emissions, including a startling 6 per cent fall in 2016 alone. Emissions per person are at a level last seen in 1858. We’re currently in a period of nearly two weeks and counting without any coal-fired generation at all, and the UK has the best performance in the G7 in terms of growing our economy while cutting our emissions.

    ***On the international stage, we have founded the Powering Past Coal Alliance of nations and regions… https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/theresa-may-should-look-to-climate-change-for-a-positive-legacy-hgsfbwbxx

    21 Nov 2017: We Mean Business Coalition: Join the Powering Past Coal Alliance
    At COP23, the UK and Canada, alongside Costa Rica, Fiji, France, the Marshall Islands, Mexico, New Zealand, Oregon, Quebec and many others, announced the Powering Past Coal Alliance. They stand united in taking action to accelerate clean growth and climate protection through the rapid phase-out of traditional coal power…
    They now need the private sector to step up and match their level of ambition…

    Coal plants still produce almost 40 percent of global electricity, making carbon pollution from coal a leading contributor to climate change and a major cause of negative health effects…

    TWEET: HM Government, Dept for BEIS:
    Powering Past Coal Alliance launched by UK & Canada at #COP23 to lead the world in ending use of unabated coal power https://www.gov.uk/government/news/climate-change-minister-claire-perry-launches-powering-past-coal-alliance-at-cop23
    16 Nov 2017

    Read the full ***declaration here (LINK)…
    https://www.wemeanbusinesscoalition.org/blog/join-global-alliance-power-past-coal/

    from the declaration:

    POWERING PAST COAL ALLIANCE: DECLARATION
    The cost of generating electricity from wind and solar have plummeted, with the result that clean power is the low-cost option in a growing number of jurisdictions worldwide. Global investments in new renewable power now significantly surpass those in new coal-fired electricity, and clean growth represents an opportunity worth ***trillions of dollars.

    20

  • #
    pat

    for once, am actually HIGHLY recommending an ABC program.

    even tho there’s no mention of RE or “climate” in the program, the mindset discussed could just as easily explain the total insanity of CAGW policies, which we find so puzzling:

    AUDIO: 29min05sec: 2 Jun: ABC: Future Tense: Capitalism without profit
    Presented by Antony Funnell
    Some of the world’s largest and most influential companies make no profit.
    They are monopolistic in intent and very future focussed – they favour growth over profitability. So, do they represent a new stage of capitalism, or a dangerous aberration?
    Guests
    Dr Kathleen Thelen – Ford Professor of Political Science, MIT
    Dr Jonathan Haskel – Professor of Economics, Imperial College Business School, Imperial College London
    Dr John Colley – Professor of Practice, Strategy and International Business, Warwick Business School
    Dr Jay Ritter – Cordell Professor of Finance, Warrington College of Business Administration, University of Florida
    https://www.abc.net.au/radionational/programs/futuretense/capitalism-without-profit/11142342

    30

    • #
      PeterW

      Pat…

      By definition, capitalism is based on the principle of delayed return. There’s nothing odd or unusual in the idea of capitalists using returns as more “capital” which is ploughed back in to grow the business in anticipation of increased profits in the future.

      How you manage (or label) that expenditure so that it is categorised as a tax-exempt business cost rather than taxable capital expenditure is another discussion.

      40

      • #
        Sceptical Sam

        Exactly.

        However, the ABC lacks the intellectual rigour to discern and understand what you say Peter W.

        Profit is a dirty word for the lefties/socialists in the ABC and elsewhere. That’s why they gave the time to this program. It’s consistent with the ABC’s propaganda objective. Playing to its audience.

        Trust the ABC? Not me.

        30

  • #
    pat

    finally tonite – a happy tale:

    8 Jun: UK Times: Heathrow protest splits Extinction Rebellion activists
    by Ben Webster
    Rival sides are battling for control of Extinction Rebellion, the climate change campaign group that brought chaos to London in April.
    Many members are upset by the extreme tactics of a small faction who want to shut down Heathrow airport using drones.
    They believe Extinction Rebellion’s reputation for peaceful, polite, non-violent protest is being jeopardised by the proposals of Roger Hallam, who helped to found the group. The former organic farmer, who claims that extreme weather destroyed his business a decade ago, was, along with three others, behind the threat to use drones at Heathrow…
    It said last week that it planned to take “non-violent direct action” on June 18 “to ensure Heathrow…

    read all the following:

    10 Jun: Wired UK: Extinction Rebellion’s Heathrow drone protest is tearing it in two
    By Sanjana Varghese
    “The proposal of drones has upset quite a lot of people, and Extinction Rebellion do have a feedback mechanism, which they’ve had a lot of responses from,” says Leslie, an Extinction Rebellion member who has been involved in environmental activism for several decades. “But I’ve seen a lot of people saying they’ll leave Extinction Rebellion if this proposed action goes ahead, and we shouldn’t really split our own movement.”

    That sentiment is common on social media, with threads of Extinction Rebellion members saying that the proposal goes against the group’s ethos, or that they don’t believe it’s the most effective way to get the government to support its demands…
    The group has more recently clarified (LINK) it is “committed to nonviolence” and that it wouldn’t undertake any measures putting airline passengers at risk…

    “There has been a lot of chat online, along the lines that drone use is too disruptive, too violent, will upset the public and detract from public support. It seems like a large majority of people don’t support the proposal, which I find disappointing,” says Aaron (not his real name), who previously researched clean energy technology before quitting to become a full-time environmental activist…

    Extinction Rebellion’s current proposal is to take action in the fields around Heathrow, which could mean that Extinction Rebellion activists face the possibility of being charged with terrorism-related offenses…READ ALL
    https://www.wired.co.uk/article/extinction-rebellion-heathrow-airport-drones

    80

  • #
    Robert Cherba

    The increased use of wind and solar will increase fossil fuel unit cycling, which will require more outage time for preventive and breakdown maintenance. Cycling boilers, turbines, pumps and piping increases leaks and cracks in metals. So, use of RE will increase maintanance downtime and costs in the backup equipment.

    210

  • #
    TdeF

    Is South Australia building new coal fired plants? No, since the takeover of the electricity systems Federally, it is all left to Canberra which is making real cash from windmills. At last look the Green public servants of Canberra had $36Million worth of windmill RET certificates in their account. So they are making real cash from all the disaster. Why should they change anything?

    Australia is being wrecked by the Green Public Servants in the Canberra swamp who are seizing power by legislation using the bunnies in Parliament.
    First Stephen Conroy’s NBN from the back of a beer coast as Telstra had gone private and Labor had lost control of communications. They had also lost control of electricity with privatization and teh solution was a National grid because electrical power was exclusively a State matter connected to State resources under the constitution. Gillard tried a tax and it didn’t work. Now electricity is all about interconnectors and grids and connecting windfarms and shutting down coal and windmills and solar farms and consolidating all (electrical) power in Canberra. To save the planet.

    Who gives a damn about industry? There is no industry in Canberra. No one does anything. No need. They have everything they want and can buy it all from China with our cash.

    South Australia will never be fixed. Their public servants have their own diesel generators. Victoriastan is next. No industry. South Australia cannot even recycle plastic. No power.
    Tasmania does not have enough rain to power Victoria and feed its people and this summer Victoria cannot help South Australia. The rivers will run dry while Turnbull’s stupid water pump is being built, his last chance to wreck the place.

    Not happy. Australia is being wrecked while we pay the world’s highest electricity prices for less than we had and Canberra is using our cash to enrich their Green friends and build windmill and solar farms. The money is flowing like a river and we are being drained and the place is so much worse. For what? Don’t tell me we are saving the world.

    At least WA is not on the Federal grid. We may have to migrate.

    240

    • #
      TdeF

      As the Chinese government said so sarcastically but truthfully, they were only buying Milk Powder in Australia, as there was nothing else worth buying. Except our coal and iron ore. Soon we will be in no position to bargain, thanks to the Greens who dominate the public service and think the world would be a better place if we did not have manufacturing and everyone worked for the public service.

      220

      • #
        OriginalSteve

        Tip of the iceberg…the Mad Max scenario starting to unfold…..

        120

      • #
        OriginalSteve

        Tip of the iceberg…the Mad Max scenario starting to unfold…..

        60

      • #
        Sceptical Sam

        There’ll be no powdered milk to sell either, if the mad animal rights trespassers get their way.

        20

        • #
          Phil

          If the greenies get their way, there will be no milk either – kill coal (CO2) AND cows (CH4 methane) is their mantra. Transport CO2 is greater than coal CO2 emissions but they won’t cut back on their travel to North Queensland and all their climate conferences. Of course, they should also stop breathing as they exhale CO2 in every breath. This brings us to the human cull movement, another extreme green movement.

          00

    • #
      el gordo

      Settle down, the cavalry has arrived.

      ‘Key Senate crossbenchers will demand the government come up with a plan to stop “abhorrent” energy price rises before supporting the Coalition’s signature $158 billion income tax cuts.’ SMH

      111

      • #
        Tdef

        No one understands the RET. The total collapse of coal powered electricity is the objective. The Greens have only one member of parliament but they write the laws and so control us. Repeal the Renewable Energy(Electricity) Act and it would stop overnight. The windmill insanity.

        270

        • #
          Tdef

          Like Brussels and exactly as in Yes Prime Minister, democracy itself is corrupted by the Green swamp. They live in a different world. The politicians do as they are told. Except for Donald Trump. Tony Abbott had to be forced out. They thought the coalition was finished. Repeal the Green laws which prohibit coal power.

          190

        • #
          el gordo

          Does the government have the bottle to repeal the RET? Do we have the numbers in the senate to get it through?

          Albo is a global warming warrior and would go ballistic and get the full support of the Greens. Morrison will surely avoid the frontal approach, running the risk of falling at the first hurdle.

          TdeF what would you do in his place?

          80

          • #
            Graeme No.3

            1. Announce that as renewables are now cheaper than conventional generation, subsidies will end in 2020; that’s all subsidies for renewables even those just installed.
            2. Insist that the bid price is the final price (to prevent gaming the system).
            3. Then decide that for security of supply a new HELE station will be built at Hazelwood to replace Loy Yang AND lower emissions. Leave the option open for further action in Vic.
            4. Build a new HELE station in north Qld. saying it will boost supply for NSW (yes, I know it won’t supply NSW but the public won’t).
            5. Announce a Commission to investigate Nuclear power in Australia. (This will distract the Greenies so while they are frothing at the mouth more important things can be done).

            170

            • #
              Kinky Keith

              :-) :-)

              Time to start pushing.
              Expose corruption,
              Expose Non Science
              Expose the cost of high electricity prices that is destroying our business and industrial base.

              KK

              50

            • #
              el gordo

              ‘Build a new HELE station in north Qld.’

              In the upcoming state election premier chook could say we are going into partnership with the Feds to construct the Bradfield Scheme and the hydro from the dams will negate the need for a Hele.

              20

            • #
              el gordo

              They envisage a hydro electric power station of some 200 mgw downstream from Hell’s Gate, it might be possible to do a cost comparison with a Hele.

              10

            • #
              Graeme#4

              Looking at what’s happening in the U.S., it seems that fracked gas is a cheaper alternative energy source than nuclear, and perhaps more acceptable to the general public in the long run?

              00

          • #
            TdeF

            The key to Canberra are the Greens. I checked once. Most Liberal/National seats have an absolute majority. Most Labor seats are totally dependent on Green preferences. That is what Turnbull was about. He was going to partner the Greens and you would have had an absolute majority with the Greens wiping out Labor in most seats with Liberal preferences.

            Green voters dominate Canberra and in the city of Melbourne had 52%. Inner city councils the same. It gives Jackie Trad her power. It is also killing Labor who no longer care about workers jobs. Only 12% of workers are in the Union and Union membership is still mandatory for Labor politicians. They are yesterday’s men.

            So do the opposite of Malcolm, trying to out Green the Greens. Take them on. Repeal the RET. The independents would be onside. They are screaming for this, or the tax cuts will not pass. Dismantle the Green machine. Watch electricity prices plummet without $6Billion a year being ripped out of our accounts to pay for windmills and middle man profits.

            On such matters, Morrison would have an absolute majority in both houses. Stop the ripoff. Be a hero. Do what he was elected to do. Get coal moving, get the power plants fixed, turn on Hazelwood, stop the closure of Liddell. Force AGL to face a new reality and cut the foreign investors off at the knees.

            Repeal the RET. Now. The whole of Australia would cheer from the result and the swamp would be so annoyed. Labor might grow some too and start to look after the workers of Australia, not toady to the Green swamp.

            230

            • #
              TdeF

              It’s nothing to do with CO2. Our share of world CO2 output has dropped about 30% anyway from 1.5% to 1.2%, so we nothing more to do. We have not only met our absolute commitments, we are far less important. Time to stop building windmills. No more windmills! No more cash for turning.
              Time to stop paying for them, solar panels, payin rates. Cash for nothing.

              Sure Climate Change is cr*p. That’s why Tony Abbott had to be forced out. Being robbed is also cr*p. Stop the robbery. Stop the RET. Watch the windmill industry come to a screeching halt without $1Million in cash per windmill, even when they have no debts at all. Why are they getting this money? Why can’t they live on the world’s highest electricity prices? It’s all a lie.

              Even Peter Fitzroy admitted here that Coal was cheaper than wind and solar. He is right. You cannot get cleaner than only CO2 and H2O as output. Unless you hate life on earth.

              140

            • #
              el gordo

              ‘Repeal the RET. Now.’

              Malcolm wanted to be president of the first republic, by putting on a green coat, but we all saw through that.

              I would say to the people that we are seeking tenders for a continental bullet train network and suggest the states who want to be in on this huge infrastructure build may need Hele.

              Albo wants the VFT and the Greens would love it, but its a matter for the states and the people must decide.

              30

            • #
              el gordo

              ‘…and cut the foreign investors off at the knees.’

              Because of sovereign risk it might be prudent to only threaten the gougers and if they continue the practice Morrison could inform the MSM that the multinationals are ripping us off, so we are getting rid of the RET to alleviate power prices.

              20

              • #
                Tdef

                Sovereign risk is a fantasy. An excuse. The owners of Hazelwood did not fight it when they were forced to walk away. Deals were done over rehabilitation of the site. It’s all a game. The overseas investors know it. Besides its our country. Why do foreign investors get paid for just operating windmills. Our cash for nothing.

                60

              • #
                Tdef

                Victoria received $2.5 billion for Hazelwood. Another $1.5 was invested in upgrading, adding scrubbers, maintenance. Like new. All gone. Sovereign risk? It didn’t stop Daniel Andrews. Same with our zero cost EW contract. Not worth the paper it was written on but it cost us, the people of Victoria, over $1bn to stop. It’s easy with public money. Who is screaming? All under the carpet. Sovereign risk is a myth when money is being thrown away. People will take a chance and cannot complain when someone turns off the tap.

                80

              • #
                TdeF

                Consider the excuse used today with John Setka. Cannot comment when it is before the courts. That did not stop an ABC journalist publishing a book on George Pell’s guilt during the trial. Sure, they stopped selling it over the counter in Victoria but the whole world could read it. Still the trial was not abandoned, but of course the jury brought in a unanimous guilty verdict. Everyone had been told he was arrogant and guilty, even during the trial.

                Sovereign risk is an excuse for letting rorts continue, especially for the Greens. Labor fears them as they need Green preferences. That is the bind Labor finds itself in over Adani. Members jobs or MP’s jobs. It’s principal over principles.

                80

              • #
                el gordo

                Morrison intends to lean on the gougers and get a result, like they did with LNG export market.

                https://www.smh.com.au/business/the-economy/bring-on-the-energy-big-sticks-says-electricity-company-20190521-p51pjh.html

                20

          • #
            Analitik

            While repealing the RET is the “proper” thing to do as part of facing up to the non-Climate Change challenge, it isn’t strictly necessary for the more immediate goal of safeguarding our power supply. The intermittent renewables (we need to be careful to exclude hydro from the tar and feathering) rely on the AEMO classifying them as “semi-scheduled” generators.

            http://www.aemo.com.au/media/Files/Other/Registration%202014/Registration%20Final/GENERATOR_CLASSIFICATION_AND_EXEMPTIONS_GUIDE_final.pdf

            Why is this important? Because it exempts the intermittent renewables from having to guarantee supply for their generation bids so they can blithely nominate some amount of power at any price that is convenient and then generate as conditions allow, totally disregarding the bids placed by thermal and hydro generators AND actual demand. The is an enormous free card that allows the intermittent renewables to be profitable IN CONJUNCTION with the RET.

            The intermittent renewables are marginally profitable at best due to the (unacknowledged) high maintenance and capital expenditure (relative to actual output) costs. Without the pricing support of the RET, the intermittent renewables would not be financially viable. But, in addition, they would not be financially viable if they were bound to the same regulations as thermal and hydro generators for guaranteeing the supply of the power that they bid for and faced the same fines that would be imposed for shortfalls.

            The “semi-scheduled” classification is a politically vulnerable achilles heel that has never been addressed properly and is denied by the renewables advocates with excuses of “reliable forecasting” being given whenever the intermittency vs demand issue is brought up. Well, they’ve sold this myth to the public so it should be exploited to make them “put up or shut up”. Or rather “pay up” for the supply shortfalls that the thermal and hydro generators scramble to fill whenever the wind and sunshine fail to arrive.

            Killing the RET is a great longer term goal but is a political minefield that the coalition would struggle to get past The Senate. Removing the “semi-scheduled” classification for the intermittent renewables would merely be taking their advocates/lobbyists/operators at their word so the gullibility of the technically illiterate (looking at you, Sarah Hanson Young) would provide support for this.

            50

      • #
        PeterS

        The cavalry might have arrived but it appears their ammunition was left behind.

        60

  • #
    el gordo

    Agrarian socialists find a voice.

    ‘The Nationals MP Keith Pitt has broken ranks to endorse a push by the Centre Alliance to legislate an economy-wide power to break up big companies when the Morrison government’s controversial “big stick” energy package returns to parliament in July.

    ‘The Queensland National, who has been one of the most vocal advocates of the “big stick” legislation, which allows energy companies to be broken up if they engage in price gouging, says a power to break up big companies should apply right across the economy, not just in the energy sector.’

    Guardian

    63

  • #
    Robber

    Thanks to DaleC in comment on previous post pointing to an analysis of spot price peaks on 1st March. Pricing appears to be a rather complicated matter.
    http://www.wattclarity.com.au/articles/2019/03/a-much-deeper-dive-into-friday-march-1-2019/
    What a fun market to be in where everybody comes out a winner.
    Let’s say I own five generators. I bid 4 generators at a low price say $50 (negative if need be) to ensure they are accepted to supply, but I bid my 5th generator at $100 and $300, knowing that at the morning and evening peaks it will be required to meet demand. Every generator gets the highest accepted bid for each supply interval.
    So far this month Vic generators have averaged income of $111/MWhr, from a low of $42 on the holiday Monday to a high of $155/MWhr last Thursday.
    As Tony has pointed out, Vic brown coal generators almost without exception deliver a reliable 4,300 MW 24×7 from a nameplate of 4,690 MW, and receive gross income of $11.5 million per day, or about $4 billion per year. I think they can fund some maintenance.
    Meanwhile, wind farm investors in Vic have installed 1,972 MW capacity at a capital cost of about $3.7 billion, delivering on average 590 MW for an income of $0.5 billion per year. In addition, “renewable” generators also get to sell certificates that were selling for $80/MWhr, but as the market approaches the RET target of 33,000 GWhr, those certificates are now selling for about $40, with prices for 2020 forecast at $24, still a nice cash bonus for wind and solar investors. So even as they bid low to ensure their bids are accepted, that have this additional “certificate income” that is paid by retailers and consequently consumers.

    140

    • #

      THIS is what is happening, exactly as Robber describes above.

      Wind power and solar plant power know that the power they generate is always accepted first, so they CAN bid at a low price, knowing 100% that they will always get the much higher average half hourly price, and ON TOP OF THAT, they get the extra of their RET.

      Coal fired power bid low because THAT is actually what it costs them to generate the power, and it was always that case, been doing it at that price for years if not decades in fact. They are the beneficiary of the high average cost, but only because they actually deliver the greatest amount of generated power.

      If wind and solar power drop off, as always happens, (being so variable) then more power is required to keep up with demand, hence more costly power comes in at the top, and that drives up the cost of wholesale power.

      If there was no wind or solar plants, (as in the old days) then the stable low cost coal fired power is the major supplier and very little extra is needed (no variable loss from wind power) and if extra is needed, then rolling reserve (coal fired power waiting in the wings, and also low cost) comes into play and power stays cheap.

      NOW, with no rolling reserve coal fired power, all we have is very costly extra small gas fired plants, driving up that half hour average cost.

      No, the market is NOT being manipulated, except maybe by wind power operators who artificially bid low. It’s working as designed, only now, the wrong generation TYPES are being added. (wind and solar, at the base price, and first accepted)

      Tony.

      200

      • #
        PeterS

        Granted the market is not being manipulated per se but the ordinary people who are sick and tired of paying higher and higher prices for less and less reliable power are being manipulated by the renewables scam, which in turn is being manipulated by the rich few who stand to benefit by the CAGW hoax. So much for the left standing up for the ordinary people.

        120

  • #
    Penguinite

    Wake up Scomo this is terrorism by renewables! AGL are not to be trusted.

    150

    • #
      PeterS

      It won’t be too long before we will see his true colours. When Liddell is next on the chopping block Morrison will either act accordingly to keep it going for much longer or he wimps out and betrays what little trust we already have in him.

      90

      • #
        Analitik

        Too late. Liddell is being run down according to plan, unlike Hazellwood, which was in perfect working order. The price spikes from last summer have probably motivated AGL to spend a little more on maintenance to keep all the boilers and generating units operational for another summer but it’s all band aid work and not proper long term maintenance.

        40

        • #
          PeterS

          If that’s the case Morrison better make sure AGL builds a new coal fired power station if he is to have any credibility.

          10

          • #
            Graeme No.3

            Rather than trust AGL, get someone on-side to build one, even if it takes some capital payment.
            But where to build one? Northern Qld. is a certainty as it will boost employment and the economy in a region that voted for the current Federal Govt.
            A replacement in NSW, preferably larger than any likely to shut down, so giving some reserve capacity which will put downward pressure on prices. As a side ‘benefit’ making renewables less profitable, esp. if they have to guarantee supply (which they can only do with [non existent] hydro or costly OCGTs.)
            A replacement for Hazelwood in Vic.? Ferocious resistance from Labor but that will lessen as the blackouts worsen and their objections will be rendered ridiculous by pointng out that it will reduce CO2 emissions (over existing stations) by 30%.

            What is needed is determination and clear thinking, and I am sorry to say that is far from likely with the current Liberal mob.

            20

  • #
    Michael262

    You can’t keep fixing them after it’s no longer viable, it makes no economic sense.

    212

    • #
      Sceptical Sam

      Thanks Michael for coming along.

      I gave you a tick for giving us the benefit of your ignorance.

      40

    • #
      el gordo

      Michael its important to keep patching them up until new Hele are built, this is realpolitik in action.

      20

    • #
      AndyG55

      Fix them now, they will last FAR LONGER than any wind turbine or solar farm.

      So yes.. it DOES make sense.

      It is the nonsense of subsidising erratic, costly, disruptive, environment-destroying wind and solar that doesn’t make sense.

      30

  • #
    Peter Fitzroy

    We had the example of Enron in the USA, and then proceeded to make exactly the same mistakes here, but added renewables as the secret sauce.

    73

  • #
    pat

    multitude of links, details re US situation:

    10 Jun: AmericanThinker: ‘Low-Cost’ Renewable Energy Is Breathtakingly Expensive
    by Joseph Toomey
    (Joseph Toomey is a career management consultant with undergraduate and MBA degrees in finance. He is the author of An Unworthy Future, an economic appraisal of Obama’s “green energy” economy)
    https://www.americanthinker.com/articles/2019/06/lowcost_renewable_energy_is_breathtakingly_expensive.html

    30

  • #
    Bill in Oz

    I want to throw in a different perspective on this ‘climate change’ stuff.
    1 We live in a unique time in the biological history of the planet.
    2 : One species, humans, has mastered the ability to concentrate & use energy ( from coal, oil, nuclear, wind, solar etc ) in the places where it lives – towns and cities.
    3 That species, us humans has also grown in numbers from maybe 200 million scattered over the planet to over 7 billion people concentrated in almost all in 3-400 huge cities and lots of smaller towns. And al of these huge cities and towns use huge amounts of energy..
    4: All that energy after being used, leads to HEAT which is dumped into the atmosphere of these cities and towns.
    5 And all that HEAT being dumped into the atmosphere, shows up in the temperature measurements being made in weather stations across the planet. And most of these are in the huge cities and in towns.

    Is this global warming ? Well, sort of. It’s certainly spread across a lot of the planet’s surface. There is a MEGA Urban Heat Island effect happening on the planet. And humans are definitely causing it.

    But NO IT IS NOT GLOBAL WARMING as usually presented.

    And it is NOTHING to do with CO2 levels in the atmosphere. So the question of what to do about it yeilds very different answers..

    Which do not include wind power & solar panels..

    BTW : Measuring temperatures in the place where we humans do not live will show this up pretty clearly. Places like MacQuarie Island in the Southern Ocean South of Australia. or St Helena Island in the Mid Atlantic.. etc.

    ( Also posted on Chiefio. )

    Bill In Oz

    100

    • #
      Maptram

      A few days ago there was a link to a study done of the great extinction 250 million years ago, where temperatures increased and 96% of animal life died. Apparently it was caused by a volcano that emitted huge amounts of CO2 into the atmosphere, so CO2 was the cause of the mass extinction, and the scientists have observed similarities with the current CO2 increases. My thinking is that something else caused the warming. I believe there was a volcano about 50000 years ago that put millions of tonnes of dust and gases into the atmosphere that blocked the sun and caused a mini ice age.

      21

      • #
        Kinky Keith

        “so CO2 was the cause of the mass extinction,”

        Sorry Maptram, how was the CO2 the “cause of extinction”?

        Aren’t there other, more significant, effects from volcanoes?

        Particulates blocking the Sun?

        The 50,000 year ago ice age must have been reel bad what with the volcanism you speak of on top of the regular ice age from the orbital mechanics of our system that gives deep freezes regularly?

        KK

        30

      • #
        Bill in Oz

        The Permian extinction was not caused by CO2
        Latest thinking is that it was a huge tectonic rupture
        That lead to a huge amount of crap in the atmosphere and seas.
        CO2 went up as a result.
        It was not a cause.

        40

      • #
        John F. Hultquist

        ” caused by a volcano ”

        This is very misleading.
        The events of interest are “flood basalt” eruptions. One produced the Siberian Traps, a lava covering of over 2,000,000 square kilometres (770,000 sq mi).
        There are also other suggested causes.

        50

    • #
      Bill in Oz

      It’s very easy to say 7 billion.

      But here it is as a number :

      7,000,000,000 + individual humans all wanting, needing to use energy in some form or other. Warm houses, cars, toasters, electric kettles, coffee making machines, washing machines, air conditioning, trains & trams and planes…. etc etc

      By way of comparison a couple of hundred years ago we were maybe 4-500 million people with fires for cooking or staying warm in Winter…

      40

      • #
        Kinky Keith

        Here’s some perspective.

        If you stood the world’s 7 billion people shoulder to shoulder and back to back how much land area would they need?

        Yes, surprisingly little. Just imagine a gigantic pen out back of the U.N. building in New York with sides 7 kilometers by 10 kilometers.
        Everyone could squeeze in if I’ve done the numbers right.

        KK

        30

        • #
          Kinky Keith

          Rework;

          70km by 10 km.

          10

          • #
            Kinky Keith

            That’s too big for outside the U.N..
            Have to move it to Venezuela.

            10

            • #
              OriginalSteve

              You could fit all of the worlds people in NSW and they would each have a 3m x 3m ( 10′ x 10′ ) bit of land to stand on.

              That means no other humans in the whole world…..

              Oh hang on… I might give the NWO lunatics ideas….

              30

              • #
                Bobl

                From memory if you moved everyone to Australia. Each family of 4 could have an acre to live on. Australia is the smallest continent! That is not overpopulation.

                00

      • #
        Bill in Oz

        KK It’s not just the number of people : 7 billion.
        It’s also that we buy & use energy.
        Whenever we flick a power switch;
        Whenever we buy petrol or LPG or Diesel;
        Whenever we burn some wood in a fire;
        Just about everything we do is assisted by the use of energy.
        Using the desk top as I am right now,
        Is a use of energy.
        And whenever energy is used
        It winds up as HEAT.
        Which we get rid of into the air.
        It’s out heatsink.
        In the bush or small towns or on farms
        The impact is negligible.
        But in cities and towns that used up energy makes the air warmer.
        And we have an Urban Heat island effect;
        In every developed city or town all over the earth !

        30

        • #
          Kinky Keith

          Hi Bill,

          Was just using that as an example of what reality actually is.
          When people make statements we need to check associated reality. ,e.g. Someone might say ; “CO2 causes climate change”. Nobody in politics or the media checks that statement.

          My calc was just to shock people into reassessing stuff.
          So, 7 billion people could theoretically fit in an area stretching from Newcastle to Gosford along the coast and then inland for 10 km.

          As you point out they need external energy to live in 2019 style but my point was that we need to think and check reality all the time.

          Probably the heat we give off is minimal compared to the solar insolation and if all human activity suddenly stopped that UHI component of the atmosphere would be gone in a few days: as if we had never been here.

          KK

          00

          • #
            Bobl

            Yes, that’s the case, but more telling is that they describe the be k radiation effect as being 100 times the calorific value of oxidising coal. Giving AGW a coefficient of performance of an incredible 100:1 over unity, our best heat pumps get 5:1

            10

            • #
              Kinky Keith

              Hi Bob, I presume that’s “back” radiation but the main item you point out is an interesting take on things.
              Heat liberated in burning coal vs back radiation.

              If they claim back radiation to be so powerful maybe they could be persuaded to build an electricity plant using it?

              00

    • #
      Bill in Oz

      7 Billion plus people and more use the atmosphere as a HEAT SINK

      No wonder that many thermometers register a rise in local temperatures.

      20

    • #
      Peter Fitzroy

      Currently, well over 10 000 manned and automatic surface weather stations, 1 000 upper-air stations, 7 000 ships, 100 moored and 1 000 drifting buoys, hundreds of weather radars and 3 000 specially equipped commercial aircraft measure key parameters of the atmosphere, land and ocean surface every day. Add to these some 16 meteorological and 50 research satellites to get an idea of the size of the global network for meteorological, hydrological and other geophysical observations. (World Meteorological Organisation)
      Now Bill in OZ estimates that there are 3-400 huge cities, which, if true means that most weather stations are not in cities. While UHI is an issue, it is not the main cause for warming.

      110

      • #
        Bill in Oz

        Bull sh*t peter Fitzroy.
        It’s patently bloody obvious
        Far more obvious than our awful CO2
        Which frankly is a myth
        Based on crap science.

        50

        • #
          Bill in Oz

          Further thoughts on this issue :
          CO2 in the atmosphere is a well mixed minor gas. If it has any effect on global climate the effects should be global.
          But this is NOT what we see r observe.
          Some places get warmer slightly
          Others remain unchanged.

          On the other hand humans are using the atmosphere as a heat sink in specific places where we live.
          That leads to localised, albeit in many instances spread across a big area, effects.

          And areas where there are few of us remain unaffected.
          Examples
          1 : Islands in the oceans. ( MacQuarie Island in the Souther Ocean being an island with no people and along weather station record. The record shows NO changes over 70 odd years.
          2 Arctic and Antarctic regions- No they are not melting though there is loads of propaganda saying they are. But that’s just propaganda from propagandists.
          3 : Uninhabited desert regions. The Sahara or Altacama or Namibian desert, or the Gobi desert,or Great Sandy desert here in Australia.

          40

        • #
          Peter Fitzroy

          Sorry that you don’t understand facts, I’m quoting a credible source, and all you can do is bluster

          07

          • #
            Bill in Oz

            Sorry Peter, the World Meteorological Organisation is not a credible source.
            Just as the BOM is a Bureau of Misinformation
            The BOM is good ONLY for the raw observations it records each day.
            The rest is pseudo science serving only to confuse.
            WMO is just the same on a global scale.

            20

          • #
            AndyG55

            “Sorry that you don’t understand facts”

            You don’t have any facts !

            10

      • #
        AndyG55

        roflmao.

        Make it up as you go along, PF

        Fact is that a LARGE proportion of temperature stations are heavily affected by Urban Heat.

        NONE of them are affected by increased levels of atmospheric CO2

        There is NO EVIDENCE that increased atmospheric CO2 causes atmospheric , or any other sort of warming

        You have PROVEN that again and again.

        50

      • #
        toorightmate

        Drongo,
        I do not have the relevant link (available on NoTricksZone) where the Japanese have established that all their city based temperature stations have shown unabated temperature increases for 40+ years, but the country based stations show no change.
        Put that in your pipe and smoke it.

        50

      • #
        AndyG55

        And guess what PF, all those NON-urban temperature data show very clearly that the ONLY warming in the last 40 or so years has come from El Nino and other ocean events.

        There is no human component in the very slight but highly beneficial warming.

        Its only the mish-mash of urban affected, highly manipulated and fabricated surface data junk temperature series that there is any actual human signal.

        30

  • #
    Travis T. Jones

    China, India thermal coal imports hit multi-year highs in May (2019)

    “China’s shipped imports of thermal coal, which is used mostly for power generation, will reach 17 million tonnes in May, data in Refinitiv showed, the highest level since at least 2015, and up from around 12 million tonnes a year ago.

    The figures exclude land imports, such as China’s purchases from Mongolia.”

    https://www.nasdaq.com/article/china-india-thermal-coal-imports-hit-multiyear-highs-in-may-20190531-00106

    50

  • #
    pat

    all behind paywalls:

    7 Jun: Edie.net: Sarah George: Parliament to debate bill committing UK to net-zero by 2050
    A bill which would commit the UK Government to reducing national carbon emissions to net-zero by 2050 will be put to Parliament next Tuesday (11 June), the Business, Energy and Industrial Strategy (BEIS) committee has confirmed today (7 June)…

    UK’s net zero emissions plan can help lead the world
    Financial Times – 9 hours ago
    The UK’s Committee on Climate Change estimates that achieving zero net emissions will cost between 1 and 2 per cent of gross domestic product…

    10 Jun: UK Telegraph: Theresa May is about to spend £1 trillion on a pointless policy. This climate madness has to end
    by Bjorn Lomborg
    PIC: Extinction Rebellion protesters called for ‘net zero’ emissions to be achieved by 2025 – even more radical than the Government’s plans.
    Chancellor Phillip Hammond was slapped down by Downing Street last week for warning that reaching net zero carbon emissions could cost the UK £1 trillion and require cuts to funding for schools, hospitals and the police force. Climate change needs a response, but Mr Hammond is right to highlight the cost – and in fact, he is likely to be underestimating the real price-tag.

    Almost all signatories to the Paris Agreement on climate change are failing to live up to their promises. This is nothing new, countries have been failing to deliver ever since the Rio de Janeiro Earth Summit was held back in 1992.

    Their grand promises always run up against the hard reality that forcing a transition from fossil fuels to alternatives remains incredibly expensive and is the reason why renewable energy has only increased by 1.1 percentage points in that time — from meeting 13.1 per cent of the worlds energy needs in 1992 to 14.2 per cent…
    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2019/06/10/theresa-may-spend-1-trillion-pointless-policy-climate-madness/

    40

  • #
    pat

    more excerpts from UK Times article, comment #14, written by two Conservative MPs:

    (excerpts) While the CCC’s experts were poring over their sums and parliament voting itself into stalemate over Brexit, something rather more important was happening on the streets of our towns and cities. Schoolchildren, inspired by the Swedish teenage activist Greta Thunberg, went on strike to demand that our generation act in the interest of theirs. Later the good-humoured street-blockers of Extinction Rebellion made their case persuasively in London and around the country.
    Their demand of net zero by 2025 is beyond feasible, but in their call for swift action towards the target they are absolutely correct. The simple fact is that in the wake of the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change report, with concern about climate change rising visibly in every nation’s schools, with the cost of clean energy plummeting (onshore wind and solar down by 12 per cent in a single year), net zero is becoming the new normal.
    Citizens are demanding that we deal with climate change – in the UK, ***two thirds of the electorate want us to hit net zero within a few decades, while vanishingly few people oppose. Business is keen, with the CBI declaring that “a massive opportunity for exports makes net zero an essential part of ‘Brand Britain’ as we move into a new international era”…

    ***30 Apr: Guardian: ***Two-thirds of Britons agree planet is in a climate emergency by Matthew Taylor
    ***Greenpeace poll findings released alongside group’s ‘manifesto’ to slash emissions
    The findings, in a poll commissioned by Greenpeace, come as the group unveiled a detailed “climate manifesto”, listing 134 key actions they say the government should take immediately to ensure the UK hits zero carbon emissions as soon as possible…
    Greenpeace’s manifesto lists 134 “practical actions” the government can take covering power, heat, transport, buildings, industry, shipping and aviation, agriculture and nature…
    The plan (LINK) is also available on the Greenpeace website for public comment and critique…
    The manifesto was released alongside polling carried out by ***Opinium in the midst of the ***Extinction Rebellion protests. It found…
    On Tuesday, the group (XR) is due to meet the shadow chancellor, John McDonnell, and later the environment secretary, Michael Gove…READ ON
    https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2019/apr/30/two-thirds-of-britons-agree-planet-is-in-a-climate-emergency

    ***Wikipedia: Opinium Research
    The agency also works in the political space and conducts monthly political polls on behalf of The Observer, The Guardian’s Sunday editions…
    As well as political surveys, Opinium also explore topical social and political issues. Their annual Multicultural Britain report helps explore and uncover feelings towards multiculturalism. The 2017 report was supported by Labour MP, Chuka Ummuna…

    one big happy CAGW family

    20

  • #
    pat

    read all the excerpts at link:

    10 Jun: ElectricityInfo.org: from UK Times: (Consumers misled by ‘green’ energy tariffs by Andrew Ellson)
    Households trying to “go green” with their energy supply are being let down by misleading tariffs, a report states.
    An analysis of 54 dual-fuel deals with a green component has found that only one in five comes from 100 per cent renewable sources. More than half have no renewable gas component at all and most of the rest offer only carbon offset schemes that have been criticised as ineffective and open to exploitation.

    Two out of three tariffs offered by one company with the word “green” in the title include no renewables at all.
    About one in seven households is on such a tariff and one million homes are supplied with “green” gas, an increase of 150 per cent in a year…
    Critics say that some green tariffs do not result in more renewable energy being produced…

    Tom Steward, of the supplier Good Energy, said: “A number of suppliers know that owning renewable generation assets makes excellent commercial sense and so have invested in their own sites. They then buy some of their electricity from these sites alongside power from coal and gas power stations.” …READ ON
    http://electricityinfo.org/news/utilities-192/

    10

  • #
    pat

    MSM has a lot to answer for:

    10 Jun: Scotsman: Comment: Why onshore wind energy is a breeze
    by DANIELLE LANE (UK country manager, Vattenfall)
    There’s a deal on the table that will support the Scottish economy, is good for electricity customers and will help Scotland achieve net zero carbon emissions by 2045. But the UK government isn’t going for it.
    Wind power will be the backbone in the shift to net zero carbon emissions as we electrify heat supply, get from A to B in electric vehicles and power factories and furnaces with hydrogen made from water. The commitment to fossil fuel-free electricity in the ten years since the Climate Change Act came into force has led us at Vattenfall to invest more than £3.5 billion in building 12 wind farms. With our pipeline, we could easily match that level of investment in the next ten.

    And while the UK government, and Scottish for that matter, have to their credit backed offshore wind, ministers in Westminster have failed to support onshore wind since 2015 – and the sector is struggling.
    This is why they should support growth in the onshore sector: it’s cheap, fossil fuel-free, boosts the economy, can be built quickly and it’s popular…
    Survey after survey demonstrates high levels of support…READ PM
    https://www.scotsman.com/business/comment-why-onshore-wind-energy-is-a-breeze-1-4943555

    10 Jun: Scotsman: Here’s why kids are right to go on climate strike
    by Mary Campbell (Green councillor for Portobello-Craigmillar)
    Young people are right to demand action to defend their future, says Mary Campbell.
    LAST year was officially the year of young people. It might be fading into the distance now, but 2019 is when their voice is truly being heard. Most visibly, the school strikes for climate are a global movement…
    I defy anyone to be present at the school strikes and fail to be moved. Their passion can be clearly felt…
    But the climate science is clear…
    So how should the city council in Edinburgh respond to this call to arms from the next generation?…
    The council has declared a climate emergency and a target for Edinburgh to be carbon neutral by 2030…
    https://www.scotsman.com/news/opinion/columnists/here-s-why-kids-are-right-to-go-on-climate-strike-mary-campbell-1-4942703

    20

  • #
    pat

    “climate children” probably don’t subscribe, so UK Telegraph promotes this protest by making the article open access – read all:

    10 Jun: UK Telegraph: Greenpeace activists stage climate protest on BP oil rig as it is towed out to sea in Scotland
    By Telegraph Reporters
    Environmental campaigners have boarded an oil rig as it was being towed out to sea and are staging a protest onboard.
    Greenpeace activists say they scaled the 27,000-tonne rig – operated by BP – as it attempted to leave Cromarty Firth.
    The protesters are calling for BP to end drilling for new oil wells and say they are prepared to stay on board the rig “for days”.
    At approximately 6.30pm on Sunday, campaigners in a boat pulled up alongside the rig near Inverness, climbed aboard and unveiled a banner declaring a climate emergency.

    Jo, a Greenpeace activist from Scotland who is on board the rig, said: “Warm words flow from BP on their commitment to tackling climate change, yet this rig – and the 30 million barrels it seeks to drill – are a sure a sign that BP are committed to business as usual, fuelling a climate emergency that threatens millions of lives and the future of the living world.
    “We can’t let that happen – that’s why we’re here today.”…
    “The perverse idea we must maximise our oil and gas reserves cannot continue.”…

    Responding to the protest, a spokeswoman for BP said…READ ON
    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2019/06/10/greenpeace-activists-stage-climate-protest-bp-oil-rig-towed/

    30

  • #
    Ronald Bruce

    When a coal fired generator needs to be taken offline for maintenance then the electricity company supplying unreliables can increase the price of those unreliables dramatically and we as taxpayers are subsidising these unreliables so that the electricity companies can make even bigger profits.
    I am very suspicious of the motivations of the maintenance that is required.

    70

    • #

      Once the bid price is locked in, that’s it, they cant change it, even if wind power increases. It just adds to the total power at the base of the five tier cost structure.

      If a coal fired Unit fails, wind power just CANNOT ramp up to cover it. They have to get that replacement power from other sources, immediately from hydro, and while that supplies immediately, natural gas fired plants come on line. These are more costly than the coal fired power it is replacing, so the average of that five tier cost structure goes up, and EVERY supplier gets the new half hour average.

      The same if wind power falls away (way way way more common than a coal fired Unit having a problem and going off line) then they have to bring on line more of those natural gas fired plants, adding a new and expensive top tier to the five tier structure, and the average cost then also rises.

      Wind power has to rely on the demand rising, which by the strangest thing (/sarc) it does, every morning and every evening. Knowing that, and knowing that the extra power MUST be supplied, then it comes from new and more expensive sources coming onto that top fifth tier, adding to the cost, and increasing the average.

      Image of five tier cost structure (coal fired power and wind/solar always on the bottom tier)

      Tony.

      120

  • #
    TdeF

    From James Delingpole, Farage is forcing Conservatives to rediscover conservatism.

    “The Conservatives have been in government, in one form or another for ten years. Yet when you look at the policies they have introduced in that time, you realise that for all the difference it made we might as well have been run by Labour.”

    Exactly as here.

    Meanwhile the stronghold of Labor is Canberra and London and Washington, not the factories. 98.4% of Washington voted for Hillary. It would be the same in Canberra.

    That is why Queensland is pumping up the public service, regardless of need or cost. They are paying for votes with public money. And the richest public servants live in the inner city, inside the Latte circle where the Green vote is overwhelming. Even Labor has been pushed out.

    So the only way for Morrison to win is to take them on, because Labor and the Greens are the same thing. Neither represent the workers and both hate factories. It is doubtful that Labor leaders have ever been in one. Shorten went from Xavier college to the Union to University and into Parliament. They don’t get their hands dirty. As for farming and mining and smelting. Ugh! They are the enemy too.

    The new Conservative government has to become a conservative government. Low taxes, low spending, freedom of speech, no division by race or class. Most importantly, cut off the money. Particularly the RET. Prices will not drop when it is all propped up with stolen cash. We are paying the windmills to keep turning, as they cannot afford to operate even with the world’s highest electricity prices.

    Or they can muddle through, assuming no Farage turns up.

    70

  • #
    Zane

    Disinformation is a hallmark of leftist propaganda.

    50

  • #
    pat

    frm 27min22sec to 31min35sec: Climate Change Insanity: “Woke” climate activists target planes. interview with Chris Horner, Senior Fellow, Competitive Enterprise Institute (CEI).(George Soros segment follows):

    Youtube: Tucker Carlson Tonight 6/10/19 Fox News
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZAYYTpIcayM

    10 Jun: Daily Caller: 75 conservative groups oppose ‘any carbon tax’ days after Mitt Romney reportedly ‘looking at’ one
    by Michael Bastasch
    “A carbon tax increases the cost of everything Americans buy and lowers Americans’ effective take home pay,” conservative groups wrote.
    Seventy-five conservative groups signed a public letter to Congress opposing “any carbon tax” days after reports that Utah Republican Sen. Mitt Romney openly considered backing carbon tax bill.
    “We oppose any carbon tax,” conservative groups, led by Americans for Tax Reform, wrote in their letter (LINK), which was published online Monday morning…
    https://dailycaller.com/2019/06/10/conservative-groups-carbon-tax-romney/

    20

  • #
    Zane

    I seem to recall another myth, something about a trace molecule called carbon dioxide causing catastrophic climate change. Funny how these myths can gain traction…

    60

  • #
    • #
      Annie

      The ladybirds (ladybugs) have all come to our place! We have had lots of them, last year and this. They commit suicide in the washing up bowl and on the woodstove and underfoot too if we don’t spot them in time. Last winter we didn’t light our small stove for a while and were aghast at the number of lady birds that appeared from the chimney, woken out of hibernation by the warmth from the flue. This year they just seem to want to come in and die.
      When we were living in Gloucestershire we had swarms of them hibernating in the top corners of various rooms.
      Not only do we have lots of ladybirds, we have lots of everything else insect and arachnid and avian.

      30

  • #
    Greg in NZ

    Off topic yet thought you all may want to know – the Koolaid Kommie Kids took over our largest city, Auckland, today, but first:

    Having recently shifted (into a 100-year-old 2-storey mansion on the cliffs overlooking the sea) I visited my new local library and one of the books I walked out with was NZ Landscape: Behind The Scene by Paul Williams, karst hydrogeology and geomorphology dude and Emeritus Professor at Auckland University –

    https://trove.nla.gov.au/work/228912149?q&versionId=251576588

    After reading Chapter 7, Glaciations and Climate Change, where our last interglacial or the Kaihinu Interglacial ~120,000 years ago had temperatures approximately 2˚C warmer than today with sea levels 3–6 metres higher, I flicked the radio on while having a coffee smoko only to hear –

    https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/national/391751/auckland-council-declares-climate-emergency

    “Auckland Council has decided after a meeting of the Environment Committee to declare a climate emergency after several groups made submissions to the to frequent applause and cheers from the packed public gallery. Elated activists young and old leapt to their feet and cheered an applauded as the motion was passed unanimously… The Environment Committee includes every member of the council, so its decisions are binding immediately without having to go through further council processes”. [sic]

    The fun has just begun…

    80

    • #
      Travis T. Jones

      Here’s one:

      A 1912 (NZ) news article ominously forecasted the catastrophic effects of fossil fuels on climate change

      “A 14 August 1912 article from a New Zealand newspaper contained a brief story about how burning coal might produce future warming by adding carbon dioxide to the atmosphere.”

      https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/1912-article-global-warming/

      Wait …

      A 1912 Century old map throws new doubt on climate change sea level claims

      “The book, The Great Divide, includes a 100 year old map of Cloudy Bay lagoons in New Zealand, drafted back in 1912 to show the location of 20 kilometres of canals dug with wooden spades by ancient Maori.

      However, when the 1912 map is shown alongside a satellite image of the same location from Google Earth, it reveals not only the startling accuracy of the original map (drafted at a time when aerial photography did not exist) but also a stunning lack of Pacific Ocean encroachment on the narrow shoal linking the lagoons to the sea.

      The shoal is comprised of rock and pebbles, making it an ideal weathervane for sea level increase as it’s less prone to erosion than shifting sands.”

      https://investigatemagazine.co.nz/2725/old-map-throws-doubt-on-climate-change-sea-level-claims/

      60

      • #
        Greg in NZ

        Stimpy/Jones – Cloudy Bay not only has the Wairau Fault (northern extension of the Alpine Fault) running underneath it out into Cook Strait, the Wairau River discharges its waters into the sea there; add to that the stormy ebb & flow of the strait’s raging tides and often huge seas, ’tis a freak of nature that little shoal/lagoon system is still there, still the same as it was over a hundred years ago.

        On the other hand – and on the other coast on the other island – Whatipu Beach, north of the entrance to the Manukau Harbour, has “advanced the shoreline more than a kilometre” from 1844 to 1954 (from Paul Williams’ book above, Ch 9, Living in the Landscape / Coastal Adjustments, p. 433) where it’s remained ever since. Admittedly this is due to masses of black sand being transported northwards, as opposed to the ‘rocks and pebbles’ of Cloudy Bay lagoon.

        P.S. In case anyone thinks I’m loaded (or paid off by the oil industry) I’m merely a rent-paying tenant in the lovely old mansion-by-the-sea – I just happen to have a penchant for living close to the ocean, preferably with some altitude and a view, and I lucked out big-time… yeehaah!

        10

    • #
      theRealUniverse

      Paul Williams, I know that guy! My friend was working in his dept.

      20

  • #
    Zane

    The leftists and Greens have hijacked most local and State governments. They pay themselves well and have a belief that sitting in meetings and discussing issues is ” work “. I am not sure what will have to happen to change this paradigm. The real workers are too busy with doing work to have much time to fight back.

    60

  • #
    Dennis

    Have people forgotten the shipment of a spare generator from Loy Yang to the Port of Brisbane during January 2018 to be shipped to Germany for reconditioning?

    Obviously it has been returned and is being installed?

    40

    • #
      pat

      Dennis -

      1 Apr 2019: LaTrobeValleyExpress: Superload on the move
      AGL Loy Yang’s 108-metre superload is due to hit the road again tonight and return to the Latrobe Valley on Thursday.
      The convoy weighs about 600 tonnes and will be carrying a generator which will be installed in the power station this year.
      The load will travel by road from Port Melbourne tonight and is expected to arrive at Loy Yang in the early hours of Thursday morning…

      AGL Loy Yang general manager Nigel Browne said the generator had been sent to the manufacturer Siemens’ specialist workshop in Germany because it had the required equipment and expertise for repair…
      “The generator will be fitted in unit three in October this year as part of our planned major maintenance program which will ensure AGL Loy Yang can continue to be a safe and reliable provider of generation to the National Electricity Market,” Mr Browne said…READ ALL
      http://www.latrobevalleyexpress.com.au/story/5984827/superload-on-the-move/

      31 Jan 2018: AGL: Extra Loy Yang generator to be refurbished in Germany
      AGL is sending a spare 255-tonne generator from Loy Yang A Power Station to Germany to be refurbished by Siemens, the original manufacturer, to ensure it can be used as a replacement generator at short notice in the future should the need arise…
      Following refurbishment, the generator will be back at Loy Yang by November 2018 where it will be installed into Unit 4 during its planned 40-day outage scheduled ahead of next Summer…READ ON
      https://thehub.agl.com.au/articles/2018/01/extra-loy-yang-generator-to-be-refurbished-in-germany

      60

      • #
        el gordo

        Good news on the AGL front.

        ‘A $3 billion takeover bid for telecommunications firm Vocus Group has been met with backlash on the market as investors ensured prospective buyer AGL Energy had its worst day on the ASX for close to a year.’

        Fin Review

        60

  • #
    Zane

    Poor old coal. It’s only crime is to exist as stored sunlight.

    90

  • #
    pat

    10 Jun: ClimateNewsNetwork: Thirty years to climate meltdown – or not?
    by ***Alex Kirby
    LONDON – A new study says human civilisation itself could pass the point of no return by 2050. The Australian climate think-tank Breakthrough: National Centre for Climate Restoration says that unless humanity takes drastic and immediate action to save the climate, a combination of unstable food production, water shortages and extreme weather could lead to the breakdown of global society…

    One renowned US climate scientist, Michael Mann of Pennsylvania State University, says that Breakthrough is exaggerating and its report could be counter-productive.
    In the UK, though, Mark Maslin of University College London says the report underlines the deep concerns expressed by some security experts…
    To weigh the credibility of some of its statements, the journal New Scientist (LINK) looks at the sources they cite and the wider context of the claims they make…
    https://climatenewsnetwork.net/thirty-years-to-climate-meltdown-or-not/

    ***Wikipedia: Alex Kirby
    Bernard William Alexander (Alex) Kirby is a British journalist, specializing in environmental issues. He worked in various capacities at the British Broadcasting Corporation (BBC) for nearly 20 years. From 1987 to 1996, he was the agricultural and environmental correspondent for BBC News, in radio and television. He moved to religious affairs in 1996, and left the BBC in 1998 to work as a freelance journalist. He also provides media skills training to companies, universities and NGOs. He is also currently the environmental correspondent for BBC News Online, and hosted BBC Radio 4′s environment series, Costing the Earth. He also writes for The Guardian and Climate News Network. He has no formal scientific training. He writes a regular column for BBC Wildlife magazine.

    6 Jun: New Scientist: Is it true climate change will cause the end of civilisation by 2050?
    By ***Adam Vaughan
    The report by Breakthrough, endorsed by a retired Australian admiral, says a war-time response is needed to avoid the doomsday scenario…
    Spratt says there are “plenty of signs” from citizens around the world that they would like to see a war-like response to climate change, pointing to the Extinction Rebellion campaigners and school pupils striking. Maslin says the report is a “stark warning that we must act now.” Spratt acknowledges that countries may also ratchet up their ambition at a key UN climate summit next year.
    https://www.newscientist.com/article/2205741-is-it-true-climate-change-will-cause-the-end-of-civilisation-by-2050/??utm_medium=NLC&utm_source=NSNS&utm_campaign=2019-0607-GLOBAL-NSDAY&utm_content=NSDAY

    ***LinkedIn: Adam Vaughan
    Guardian News & Media
    10 years 6 months
    Energy correspondent, environment web editor, deputy environment web editor…

    15 Feb: Guardian: Adam Vaughan: Renewable energy will be world’s main power source by 2040, says BP
    The UK-based oil company said wind, solar and other renewables will account for about 30% of the world’s electricity supplies by 2040, up from 25% in BP’s 2040 estimates last year, and about 10% today…

    the CAGW mob inhabit such a closed world.

    20

    • #
      pat

      meant to include this line from Adam Vaughan’s 15 Feb Guardian piece:

      Renewables are expected to grow by 7.1% each year over the next two decades, eventually displacing coal as the world’s top source of power by 2040…

      10

    • #
      Another Ian

      Pat

      That admiral sounds like just as well he’s on the retired list

      10

  • #
    RoHa

    It’s actually quite simple, and only science-denying shills of Big Oil like yourselves would pretend not to understand.

    Australia was a cool place. (Check the BOM records.)
    Coal-fired power stations made it hot by pumping out CO2.
    They were designed for the old, cold, Australia, to help people to warm up their beer.
    They can’t handle the heat they have caused, and the beer is now too warm.
    So they need to be replaced by giant fans that will cool the beer down again.

    Got that?

    90

    • #
      toorightmate

      There is more science in this than there is in most of the climate garbage we get from ABC, MSM, Fairfax, Bloomberg, NYT, WaPo, etc.

      50

    • #
      Another Ian

      But! But! But!

      “Pennsylvania Man thinks roundabouts are causing tornadoes…”

      https://wattsupwiththat.com/2019/06/09/pennsylvania-man-thinks-roundabouts-are-causing-tornadoes/

      And in comments

      “Well, that would explain why they have so few tornadoes in the UK: the roundabouts go in the wrong direction, and they counter, rather than reinforce, the coriolis effect.”

      Now, as we drive in the left in the southern hemisphere that should reinforce the effect and promote giant fan destroying tornadoes – shouldn’t it?

      20

      • #
        TdeF

        Those are Tournadoes. A French phenomenon. What goes around. As for the Corellas effect, we get that in Australia with three hundred white and pink Corellas currently stripping the olive trees down the street. Don’t get me started on Galahs at roundabouts. It’s too cold for Budgies.

        50

      • #
        RoHa

        I have already pointed that out on WUWT! We’re doomed!

        20

  • #
    el gordo

    Prof Bob Carr finds a dream job.

    https://reneweconomy.com.au/bob-carr-appointed-to-new-business-and-climate-change-role-at-uts-80118/

    A formidable adversary, but Craig Kelly could run rings around him.

    40

    • #
      TdeF

      Ha! Business and Climate Change? What Climate Change? There is no Global Warming so how can there be Climate Change?

      Maybe he should a consultant in Dungeons and Dragons? It’s all fantasy. Or a transgender Dark Phoenix in Ex-men, the end of series and the end of the road.

      50

  • #
    Rob

    Nobody should forget that wind turbines and rooftop solar installations are likely to be life-expired within 25 years.
    Whereto then ?

    20

  • #
    pat

    saw this in Bolt Report earlier tonite (Ben Fordham sitting in for Bolt), but only found these online now.
    to show how crazy our politics is, I at first thought Gaye Cameron had been sacked by Pauline Hanson for being involved with China’s Goldwind!

    VIDEO: 3min01sec: 11 Jun: news.com.au: One Nation candidate allegedly sacked for ‘political views’
    Ben Fordham with Sky’s Caroline Marcus
    One Nation candidate Gaye Cameron claims she has been sacked for her ‘political views’ and claims her employer has contravened the Fair Work Act. Ms Cameron ran for the New South Wales seat of Cook, the Prime Minister’s seat in south Sydney, at the recent federal election, while working for Chinese solar and wind developer Goldwind.

    According to Federal Circuit Court documents, the company sent Ms Cameron a show cause letter the day before the May 18 election, saying that partly because of her political leanings, there was a conflict in her work and ‘demonstrated antagonism to Chinese interests and influence in Australia.’

    Speaking to Sky News Ms Cameron says everyone has a democratic right to ‘put their hand up and have a vision to strive for and be in the political arena’ for this country.
    Goldwind has issued a statement saying it didn’t sack the employee due to her opinions, but because she took unpaid leave without approval to campaign.
    https://www.news.com.au/video/id-5348771529001-6046893504001/one-nation-candidate-allegedly-sacked-for-political-views

    VIDEO: 2min43sec: news.com.au: Sky News: One Nation candidate sacked by renewables company
    A One Nation candidate at the recent federal election claims she has been fired from her job over her political views. The woman was working as a senior advisor for a Chinese-owned renewables company in Sydney, Goldwind.
    Gaye Cameron was sacked on 3 June, with the Federal Circuit Court dismissing her application for an interlocutory injunction to stop the termination, but the judge said there is a prima facie case the employer breached the Fair Work Act.

    Goldwind have said Ms Cameron’s political party and opinions were not relevant to the decision, instead it was the five days leave she took to campaign that was problematic, when she had only been approved three.
    https://www.news.com.au/video/id-5348771529001-6046893504001/one-nation-candidate-allegedly-sacked-for-political-views

    10

  • #
    pat

    11 Jun: ABC: Queensland Budget 2019: Extra taxes flagged for big business as State Government puts jobs on the agenda
    By Melinda Howells and Matt Wordsworth
    The LNG sector faces an increase in the petroleum royalty from 10 per cent to 12.5 per cent, which will pull in an extra $476 million over four years.
    Ms Trad said it was time to review the royalty arrangements that were put in place to stimulate the industry when it first started in Queensland…

    But Queensland Resources Council chief executive Ian Macfarlane said the gas industry was “bewildered” by the royalty increase.
    “The industry has been completely blindsided by public statements by the Premier that there would not be a royalty increase in this Budget,” he said.

    Mr Macfarlane said the resources sector had already delivered $900 million in extra royalties to top up the Government’s Budget this year.
    “The thanks from this Government is to increase royalties to this sector again, and to put in jeopardy the thousands of jobs in regional Queensland that rely on export gas.”…

    High coking coal prices have again boosted royalties, which have been revised upwards by $838 million in 2019-20.
    However, those windfalls will not continue, with coal prices and royalty revenue expected to drop in 2020-21…
    https://www.abc.net.au/news/2019-06-11/queensland-budget-big-business-slug-funds-small-business-cuts/11195220

    11 Jun: AFR: Qld hikes LNG royalties, land tax
    by Mark Ludlow
    $25b in coal, gas royalties
    Record coal and gas royalties are already flowing in to the state Treasury on the back of $85 billion in exports in the past 12 months, a $12 billion increase on the previous year.
    Coal and gas royalties are expected to deliver $25 billion over the next four years, mostly from coal ($19.2 billion).
    A surge in coal prices has helped boost coal royalties to $4.36 billion in 2018-19 alone, with a further $4.339 billion predicted next financial year…

    11 Jun: Reuters: Australia’s Queensland state hikes gas royalty rate to 12.5%
    MELBOURNE – Australia’s Queensland state said on Tuesday it would raise its petroleum royalty rate to 12.5% from 10% from July, a surprise move coming at a time when the state is looking to encourage new gas supply for the domestic market.
    The move will hit gas producers in the northeastern state, led by Royal Dutch Shell, Origin Energy and Santos — all of which supply three liquefied natural gas (LNG) export plants and the domestic market…

    “This will make Queensland gas less competitive and will risk jobs and future investment and the creation of jobs,” the Queensland Resources Council Chief Executive Ian Macfarlane said in a statement.
    The state said the higher royalty rate was in line with rates in the United States and Canada, where rates are between 12.5% and 30% of the well-head value…

    “This tax hike risks the gas supply for all Australians, not only Queenslanders, given Queensland gas suppliers have been doing all the heavy lifting for the gas market,” Macfarlane said…
    The decision came after the Labor-led state promised to freeze royalties on coal after Labor was hammered in Queensland in a national election in May, amid concerns that the party was opposed to coal developments.

    The state estimated it will collect A$5.36 billion in resources royalties in the year to June 2019, up 20% from last year, largely thanks to higher metallurgical coal prices…
    https://af.reuters.com/article/commoditiesNews/idAFL4N23I1YS

    00

  • #
    pat

    funny how chimneys/”smoke” pics have been almost universally replaced in the MSM by pics of children’s climate strike protests:

    11 Jun: Guardian: EU climate goals ‘just a collection of buzzwords’, say critics
    Document setting out agenda for next five years denounced by environmental campaigners for skimping on detail
    PIC: Youth climate protesters in Brussels in May 2019. The EU’s plans have come under fire for prioritising economic growth over the environment
    by Jennifer Rankin in Brussels
    A leaked document on the EU’s priorities has been criticised as offering little more than “a collection of buzzwords” to tackle the climate crisis and accelerating the destruction of the natural world…
    Greenpeace criticised the absence of any mention of food production, when livestock farming accounts for between 13%-17% of the EU’s greenhouse gas emissions…
    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2019/jun/10/eu-priorities-climate-buzzwords-critics

    11 Jun: Greenpeace: Leaked: EU strategic agenda fails to back urgent action against climate crisis
    by Greenpeace European Unit, Brussels
    A leaked five-year plan (LINK) setting political priorities for Europe has exposed a stubborn reluctance by governments to take urgent action against the existential climate and ecological crisis, warned Greenpeace…
    European leaders are expected to endorse the EU’s New strategic agenda 2019-2024 (LINK) at a crucial summit in late June…
    PIC: (children’s climate strike Germany? no caption)
    https://www.greenpeace.org/eu-unit/issues/climate-energy/2071/eu-strategic-agenda-fails-climate/

    10

  • #
    pat

    funny, too, how the big establishment photo agencies are always on hand at the XR/child protests:

    10 Jun: Guardian: Extinction Rebellion’s tactics are working. It has pierced the bubble of denial
    by Matthew Todd, journalist & author
    By stating the terrible truth about the climate crisis it has created authentic hope for the first time…
    PIC: Extinction Rebellion shouldn’t have to exist. It only does because most of the media and government have failed.’ Protesters in central London. Photograph: David Rowe/Alamy
    A YouGov poll (LINK) last week showed that the protests by the direct action group, as well as those of millions of children led by Greta Thunberg, have sent public concern about the climate crisis to record levels…
    PIC: Student climate strike protesters in London Photograph: Jack Taylor/Getty Images
    https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2019/jun/10/extinction-rebellion-bubble-denial-climate-crisis

    sorry, Todd, but no-one I know is buying your CAGW propaganda.

    UK’s net zero emissions plan can help lead the world
    Financial Times – 10 Jun 2019

    from Carbon Brief: In the Financial Times, Rachel Kyte, chief executive of Sustainable Energy for All and special representative of the UN secretary-general, writes that importance of the UK committing to net-zero emissions by 2050 “should not be underestimated”. She writes: “The faster industrialised countries decarbonise, the more room they create for developing countries that face the more difficult challenge of reducing emissions while also meeting basic needs and creating economic growth.”

    10

  • #
    pat

    better shut down healthcare:

    10 Jun: Carbon Brief: Healthcare in world’s largest economies ‘accounts for 4%’ of global emissions
    by Josh Gabbatiss (ex-UK Independent, now with Carbon Brief)
    While healthcare emissions have rarely been assessed in isolation, the analysis suggests that in most countries they are only surpassed by those from the heaviest polluting sectors, related to energy, transport and construction.
    The research found that the combined emissions from hospitals, health services and the medical supply chain across the OECD group of market-based economies, as well as China and India, make up around 4% of the global total. This is a larger share than either aviation or shipping.

    In their new paper, published in Environmental Research Letters (LINK), a team led by scientists at the Potsdam Institute for Climate Impact Research in Germany present the first comparable estimates of healthcare-related CO2 emissions for these countries…
    https://www.carbonbrief.org/healthcare-in-worlds-largest-economies-accounts-for-4-of-global-emissions

    10

  • #
    Sean McHugh

    Not a myth but a lie.

    20

  • #
    truth

    The myth that outages of coal plants are due to decrepit old plants that can’t take the heat is also fostered by AEMO….along with the claim that this is a consumer-led transition…consumers all being gung ho to spend thousands of dollars because they’re excited by the technology….with no mention of them being frightened into it by the huge bills they’ve received.
    But coal plant IS damaged economically and materially by the standby mode they’re forced into as studies including this one explain….

    MIT Energy Initiative Symposium on Managing Large-Scale Penetration of Intermittent Renewables | April 20, 2011
    All of these conventional thermal plants will have to cycle and ramp more frequently in a future with larger penetration of variable sources
    Impacts of Cycling on Coal Plants:
    There is a range of impacts on coal plants associated with cycling and ramping. This range includes:
    Mechanical issues:
    Cycling operations will lead to increased wear and tear on components through creep-fatigue interactions, repeated thermal expansion, thermal fatigue in the firebox, and rotor bore cracking of the turbine.
    The main areas of concern here are the steam headers, boiler tubes, and pipe hanger systems.
    Water/steam chemistry:
    Issues with maintaining water and steam chemistry will lead to increased corrosion throughout the steam cycle.
    The main areas of concern are the condensers where oxygen ingress can occur and low-pressure turbines where steam condensation leads to a buildup of corrosive material.
    Environmental control equipment:
    Performance and reliability of the flue gas desulfurization
    (FGD) system to remove SO2 and selective catalyst reduction (SCR) system to remove NOX can be affected by cycling.
    The FGD requires lengthy startup times and loses efficiency
    at turndown rates.
    When operated at low flue gas temperatures, the SCR can lose effectiveness from a buildup of ammonia bisulfate on the catalyst.

    Loss of efficiency and extra startups:
    Fuel usage per kilowatt hour (kWh) of electricity
    produced will increase as more frequent startups require more fuel to bring units up to full load and as less efficient turndown operations are used more often.
    This will lead to increased emissions of criteria air pollutants and CO2 on an energy basis as well.

    Feed system and burn zone issues:
    Operating at lower output will affect the solid transport systems used to move coal into the burning zone and will require redesign of the pneumatic system.
    Operating at the optimal mix of air and coal in the burn zone will face similar issues due to changes in gas flow through the feed system.
    Operator error
    Running coal plants outside of normal procedures requires operating the plant more frequently under transient conditions. Variable operations will create increased opportunities for operator errors.
    With the operating environment for coal plants changing, participants noted that many of these issues are being considered in the design basis for new units. It was suggested that there should be a clean sheet look at how to build a plant so that future coal plants will be better able to provide flexible capacity to the electric power system.

    40

  • #
    Bruce Abbott

    I worked for a performance test group for 15 years, testing powerplants all over the world. I tested a lot of coal plants along the way, including 1960′s vintage units in Pennsylvania Power and Light’s fleet. A change in ambient temperature has an effect of power output when the condenser system is unable to maintain low backpressure at the LP Steam turbine exhaust, since half the power of a common-shaft steam turbine comes from there (LP turbine blades extract the final expansion from the steam, from around 100-150 psia down to 1 psi absolute, and the end-stage LP turbine blades can be 30+ inches long). The operators accept the lower output as natural, and the plant rides the main steam setpoints. Steam plants are meant as baseload units; I tested two 905MW GE Super-criticals for PPL that had run continuous baseload for 132 days, 24-7. You cycle one of those boilers a couple of times and you will be down to repair a steam leak in the water walls or headers. The grid tried cycling those two SCs and finally gave up and shut them down. Lots of jobs lost, including the closure of the US Gypsum plant across the street that made wallboard from the Flue-Gas Desulfurization system by product. Heat doesn’t kill a well-maintained coal unit; mismanagement does.

    40

  • #
    A nonny mouse

    The Sydney Harbour Bridge is 96 years old and a remarkable piece of engineering that works harder as it ages, but is maintained and upgraded to keep doing the job. In the same way power plants can keep operating for as long as it takes with the right maintenance. People who impose shorter lifetimes on plants like Hazelwood and Liddell are just eco-nazis determined to kill old coal plants for ideological reasons and corporate green-posturing. The fact is that after Liddell, the economies of scale never improved much, and similar unit sizes are still being built around the world, meaning that Liddell being fully depreciated remains competitive and profit generating even with high maintenance. A new coal plant is handicapped by its huge upfront costs and it still needs to source low cost coal. Let’s kill the subsidies instead, and watch the green fat coats, merchant banks and financiers winge.

    00

Leave a Reply

  

  

  

You can use these HTML tags

<a href="" title=""> <abbr title=""> <acronym title=""> <b> <blockquote cite=""> <cite> <code> <del datetime=""> <em> <i> <q cite=""> <strike> <strong>