JoNova

A science presenter, writer, speaker & former TV host; author of The Skeptic's Handbook (over 200,000 copies distributed & available in 15 languages).


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Midweek Unthreaded

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Rating: 9.9/10 (17 votes cast)
Midweek Unthreaded, 9.9 out of 10 based on 17 ratings

171 comments to Midweek Unthreaded

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    • #
      Bill in Oz

      The BBC is backing Hunt over Boris Johnson
      https://www.bbc.com/news/politics
      No doubt Hunt is seen as more controllable by the BBC’s Brexit gurus
      Than ‘unstable’ Boris

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      • #
        theRealUniverse

        Its not set in stone yet, watch this space. Did you see where Boris had the cops come to his apartment over a row between him and his partner?
        He certainly can be unstable, trouble is they are all public schoolboys (well trained by the elite)..and still act like them.

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        • #
          Annie

          It stinks of a set-up.
          a. Don’t all couples have the occasional row?
          b. Strange that the next-door neighbours were able to record it and were ready to do that.
          c. Stranger still that they gave the recording to The Guardian so quickly, rather than the police…what’s up with that?
          d. Notice the immaculate timing in an effort to undermine Boris.

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          Annie

          We are now seeing the full force of Boris Derangement Syndrome, with every effort being made to blacken him by all those suffering from Brexit Derangement Syndrome.

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          Graeme#4

          Boris’ downstairs is a fervent Remainer who hates Boris and has gone to great lengths to demo this to Boris. She was the person who reported Boris.

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          beowulf

          The row was over red wine spilled on the couch/carpet. Boris used the F word once. When the police arrived it was a case of nothing-to-see-here. The police even joked about how to remove red wine stains.

          The “neighbours” are a pair of activist lefty playwrights who have penned pieces against Brexit and Boris etc. They called the police, they “happened” to record the row and “happened” to give the recording to the Guardian. What a series of coincidences.

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          • #
            Bill in Oz

            They happen to be a pair of S@^t heads
            What’s Boris doing with such dopey neighbours….

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          • #
            Richard Ilfeld

            Frequently, Americans are castigated for their love of suburban single family homes on fenced lots.
            They do, however, have certain virtues.
            If you can’t choose your neighbors, at least you can keep them at arm’s length.
            These contrived pieces of political theatre are having the further erosive effect of dulling our senses
            to those pols who truly engage in bad behavior.

            20

  • #
    el gordo

    “Anyone who wants to kill the dangerous and unfounded climate scare…should focus on exposing the shaky science behind climate alarm. That is the Achilles heel of the whole movement. Shoot it down and you win the war!”

    Marc Morano

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    • #
      glen Michel

      There has been a lot of letters to “The Australian” newspaper over the last few days contesting the orthodoxy.Good on that newspaper. Now we need a emphatic editorial that takes a lead on the matter.

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      • #
        glen Michel

        Quo vadis? I would ask.

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      • #
        theRealUniverse

        One has to fight the IPCC and all it stands for (which is very little and total lies). BIG powerful elites control it and the media surrounding it.

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      • #
        Graeme#4

        Lots of comments inThe Oz over the weekend about GBR bleaching. Many comments from folks who spend a lot of time on the GBR, saying that they haven’t seen much, if any, bleaching.

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          yarpos

          Friend of mine has a daughter starting at JCU n some sort of scholarship. He fervently believes that if you dont go see it in the next few years it will be “gone”

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        Rob

        Until more recent times, The Australian was continuing to editorialise on the need to dramatically reduce emissions although it has gone a bit quite at the moment. It remains disappointing that a raft of ignorant Oz journalists are are running strong pro-renewables opinion pieces.

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        • #
          Graeme#4

          The Australian has journalists from both side of politics. I tend to ignore the left-leaning and instead read the writings of journalists such as Judith Sloan and Chris Kenny. It seems to me that The Oz has switched direction over the last six months, with far more articles deriding AGW.

          30

    • #
      Bill in Oz

      Sorry EG I agree with the Scottish Skeptic
      “To put it simply, the age of rationalism is over and we are now in the age of the brainwashed crazy climate cult. ”
      http://scottishsceptic.co.uk/2019/06/17/how-to-survive-the-climate-cult/

      These idiots need treating as idiots
      That means making them the butt of vicious shaming jokes and cartoons
      That keeps it all simple for the idiots followers to follow.

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      • #
        el gordo

        ‘That means making them the butt of vicious shaming jokes and cartoons.’

        Best to be inclusive, satire will see them laugh at themselves.

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        • #
          Bill in Oz

          Whatever works E G.
          Making the Greenists the butt of humor
          Showing up how foolish they are
          Will be effective
          No one wants to be portrayed as the village idiot.

          50

          • #
            OriginalSteve

            The mind of the intelligent seeks knowledge, But the mouth of fools feeds on folly
            (Prov 15:14).

            A fool does not delight in understanding, But only in revealing his own mind
            (Prov 18:2).

            Do not speak in the hearing of a fool, For he will despise the wisdom of your words
            (Prov 23:9).

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        theRealUniverse

        Very good points in that article.

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        yarpos

        Its just the “Idiocracy” effect. In the movie they watered plants with Gatorade cause its got electrolytes and you wouldnt put stuff you use in the toilet on food. These guys think there is a giant CO2 knob that controls the worlds climate and gluing themselves to the pavement proves their point. Same, same.

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    • #
      theRealUniverse

      “should focus on exposing the shaky faux science behind climate alarm”

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  • #
    TdeF

    As the ski fields in Colorado stay open for the July 4th weekend and there is record cold in Australia and not a single hurricane to console them, the proponents of electric cars, windmills and carbon taxes are starting to panic. Congress’ AOC has even blamed a refinery problem on Climate Change, but no one believes it. Desperate times after 31 years since the Summer Solstice where James Hansen told Congress of his theory of imminent catastrophe. Three decades of utterly failed predictions.

    Now it is seen as a religion at best, Climate Scientology. They are even appealing to other religions to support them, to keep the faith. Global Warming, where have you gone?

    The boats from Libya are stopping. Countries are building walls and closing their borders. The Obama war in Iraq is ending and the Mullahs in Iran are frustrated. Kim Jong Un is boxed in between the US and America. The pope is cross. And Brexit is going to happen under Boris Johnson.

    Climate Change could quickly become yesterday’s news in Australia too as the insanity of stopping Adani for a finch and shutting Victorias biggest power station starts to change politics. Windmills are useless. Solar is a toy.

    People have had enough of the thought police at the football, attacking Christianity, belittling white democratic society while wanting to join it and aggressive anti democratic politics in councils, State government and Federal. Black hooded Fascism pretending to be AntiFA. Violent protests against free speech. Universities openly refuting the right of anyone to have their own opinion. Even the Tories and Australia’s Liberals are having to distance themselves from the Greens. And Israel Folu has immense support for his religious beliefs which have nothing to do with football.

    It’s not about CO2. It is about the attack on successful democratic Western societies. Their power supplies, their telephones, their religions, their people, their beliefs and their borders. The Deplorables of the US, the Brexiteers of the UK and the people of Queensland have had enough. Residents of the Southern Stans are just frustrated as heroes like James Cook are vilified.

    Climate Change? What Climate Change? It’s the political climate which is changing rapidly. Good. About time.

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    • #
      el gordo

      ‘It is about the attack on successful democratic Western societies.’

      Western democracy is under attack from internal forces.

      https://www.scmp.com/news/world/europe/article/3015989/democracies-not-democratic-say-many-west-who-see-banks-social

      ‘It’s not about CO2.’

      I disagree, all we have to do is prove CO2 does not cause global warming and the IPCC would collapse.

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      • #
        PeterS

        Won’t matter because the enemy will find another way to bring down the West. Still we should expose the scam and have the leaders arrested, charged, trialled and put in prison for life along with other scam artists, such as Bernard Madoff who happened to have committed a far less severe scam and is now in prison for life.

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      • #
        TdeF

        Really? No one proved that man caused the increase in tiny CO2 in the first place. You can prove absolutely it is not true with radio carbon dating, which specifically dates CO2 and only CO2. Whether the CO2 increase of 50% in 120 years causes any warming at all is a second point. Nothing is proven.

        The weather is dependent on the sun strength, the tilt of the axis, the nutation of the axis, the position of the sun in the galaxy, the elliptical orbit, the solar cycles and the induced oscillations in the gigantic oceans. Only recently have the climate gurus started to consider the oceans. Without water there is no climate. Just hot and cold.

        The very idea that warming of a tiny 1C in an average across the planet has any effect at all would have to be proven. It is such as small amount that you would never notice it. As for CO2, it is tiny and insignificant in climate matters until proven otherwise.

        You would think James Hansen had to prove what he said. Disproving it is much harder but 31 years of being wrong should do it.

        As for the IPCC collapsing. It is an arm of the United Nations, like the EU hell bent on world domination by any means at all. In the name of peace of course. Then Germany wants the EU to have an army, to fight its enemies. Russia and the USA and perhaps the UK. We have been there before in 1870, 1914, 1939. First you have to create a false bogey man. That’s the job of the IPCC.

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          el gordo

          ‘As for CO2, it is tiny and insignificant in climate matters until proven otherwise.’

          Only the precautionary principle stands in the way of a rational debate.

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          • #
            Peter Fitzroy

            That ship has sailed, el gordo. Whether or not you finger CO2, and whether or not you accept that man has an influence, the argument is now on costs. As you know I think that too much of these costs are avoided by the coal industry, and would prefer to see a better accounting for the obvious damaged caused. See this from the world economic forum that is not saying that I support banning all coal generation, just that it should be costed equably. Not that this includes the cost of dumping CO2

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            • #

              You mean — you want the argument to be on costs.

              If only you could find some evidence that we should even be discussing the cost?

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              • #
                Peter Fitzroy

                Well yes, I think there is plenty of cost evidence.
                For renewables – your site has collated some of the best arguments against renewables on a cost basis that I’ve seen. It’s clear for renewables that cost per kilowatt per year is much more than those costs published for Coal and Gas.
                For Coal (and from my link) “Between 2014 and 2017, G20 governments more than halved direct support for coal mining, from $22 billion to about $10 billion on average each year, according to a report by the London-based Overseas Development Institute (ODI), a think tank.

                But over the same period they boosted backing for coal-fired power plants – particularly supporting construction of the plants in other, often poorer nations – from $17 billion to $47 billion a year, the report noted.”

                In this report about the full cost of subsidies and including the failure to regulate pollution it is noted that the myth of coal power helping poor communities, and noted the G20 nations indirectly support the coal industry “by failing to charge companies for the health and climate damages they cause.

                I can find a lot of information about the damage caused to aquifers for CSG, and the costs of Nuclear (if you are not making bombs) is well known.

                But it is true, I do want the argument to be about the costs, I’m happy with the physics of how CO2 contribute to warming, but I don’t expect to convince anyone on this site. That is why I’m saying that a debate about costs might be a better way to frame the discussion

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                Graeme#4

                Peter, There is no “myth” about cheap, mostly coal-generated energy helping poor communities. Currently 4 million people die annually, mostly women and children, from indoor pollution caused mainly by cooking and heating using biomass products such as wood, charcoal and animal dung. Another 3 billion people live without access to modern cooking energy, and one billion people don’t have access to electricity. If you want to discuss costs, what about first discussing the terrible costs of NOT providing these folks with cheap energy.

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              • #
                AndyG55

                “Well yes, I think there is plenty of cost evidence.”

                WRONG as always, PF, because you always DENY the massive BENEFITS.

                Without coal, modern society WOULD NOT EXIST.. period. !!

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              • #
                Bill in Oz

                @ Fitz ” Fine Bill, and your proof is?”
                Fact 1 : Here in the Adelaide Hills we have ever increasing CO2 – Now at 408 ppm gradually increasing for the past 150 years.

                Fact 2 : Here in the Adelaide Hills we have we also have just had 8 days of frosts on the trot.. And Winer arived early in late April with a couple of frosts.

                Conclusion : Clearly increased CO2 does not have any effect on our climate here in the Adelaide Hills.

                Need any help with any other proofs ?

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              • #
                AndyG55

                Seriously, PF, your link to the Anti-CO2 anti-science, coal report is just a whole lot of agenda driven propaganda pap.

                And again, You continue to DENY and DISMISS the very fact that no modern civilisation would even exist WITHOUT COAL.

                Wind and solar CAN NEVER provide the baseload that modern society requires.

                Coal powered electricity provides the building blocks for all modern society, for the poorer countries to develop, and for all life on Earth to continue to flourish.

                BENEFITS massively outweigh any of the controllable risks.

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              • #
                AndyG55

                “I’m happy with the physics of how CO2 contribute to warming”

                So you admit you are happy to remain in your ZERO-EVIDENCE little fantasy world.

                “That is why I’m saying that a debate about costs might be a better way to frame the discussion”

                You cannot discuss “costs” without looking at “benefits”

                And the BENEFITS of coal fired power massively outweigh any of your so-called “costs”, all of which are easily controllable with modern engineering.

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                Hanrahan

                “Between 2014 and 2017, G20 governments more than halved direct support for coal mining, from $22 billion to about $10 billion on average each year, according to a report by the London-based Overseas Development Institute (ODI), a think tank.

                I live in Australia, not the G20. Here the coal industry is not subsidised it is taxed via royalties, royalties that are all that stands between penury and survival for Qld. Dan The Man doubled royalties on coal to put Yallorn out of business, it WASN’T cheap renewables.

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              Bill in Oz

              Fitz, you imply the https://www.weforum.org/ mob has credibility.
              And is willing to publish the truth.

              It is isn’t.
              It’s just another Greenist propaganda web site.

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              • #
                Peter Fitzroy

                Fine Bill, and your proof is?

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                AndyG55

                You have NO PROOF, of ANYTHING, PF..

                Now look at just one of the heading in your socialist far-left link

                “‘Summer Davos’ To Focus on Preparing Leaders for New Era of Globalization

                You are either totally in DENIAL of what their agenda is..

                … or as thick as 10 planks. !!

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            • #
              AndyG55

              Poor Peter,

              Still trying to ignore/DENY the massive benefits to society and the environment from the use of coal.

              Still trying to run away from the fact that there is zero evidence that CO2 affects the climate in any way whatsoever.

              Yes, it is about the costs, and the huge amounts of money being syphoned up by this most anti-science of scams.

              ” Not that this includes the cost of dumping CO2″

              There you go with your zero-evidence anti-science nonsense again…

              There is NO COST in returning sequestered CO2 back into the atmosphere, only huge benefit for all life on Earth.

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              AndyG55

              “Whether or not you finger CO2,”

              Which is something you have been TOTALLY INCAPABLE of doing with any actual evidence.

              “whether or not you accept that man has an influence”

              Which is also something you have been TOTALLY INCAPABLE of doing with any actual evidence.

              Stick to your brain-washed zero-science fantasies, PF, its all you have.

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            • #
              theRealUniverse

              That ship has sailed, el gordo. What ship, PF? The whole science behind it is fatally flawed.
              The fake ‘cost of inaction’ as the ALP ex leader once said, is the cost of total economic destruction.

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            • #
              Lance

              Peter, your position is untenable and irrelevant. You argue about apportioning “costs” without first addressing the practical issues of “should it be done” and the practical power generation issue of “can it be done?”, followed by “how long does it take”, .

              Should it be done? No. There is no evidence supporting a need to modify existing power generation. There are only mathematical models that predict things that have not happened.

              Can it be done? No. The resources to produce the required number of solar panels and wind turbines do not exist in the entire world.

              How long does it take? Timelines to build

              a nuclear plant: 12 years
              a hydroelectric dam and plant: 30 years
              enough solar panels to replace existing North American baseload generation: 930 years

              The US grid is valued at 5 Trillion USD, consists of 1039 GW of generation capacity, and has taken 120 years to construct. It has a mix of hydro, nuclear, coal, gas, wind and solar.

              The AU grid is about 50 GW capacity, valued at roughly 0.3 Trillion USD.

              Transportation energy in electrical equivalent of oil is roughly 80% of the US or AU generation base. So, you need 1.8 Grids to power what you have now and to charge the EV equivalent of your transportation load in 24 hrs. If you want to charge them in 8 hrs, you need 4.8 Grid equivalents. For AU, that is roughly 1.5 Trillion USD of infrastructure cost, and because the excess surge capacity isn’t used for 2/3 of the day and the infrastructure amortization continues regardless, existing electric rates would need to triple.

              So, lets review the costs to actually DO what you say needs to be done, not even considering the timeline to do it, or the raw materials to do it with.

              Grid construction: 1.5 Trillion USD for AU. Amortize that over 20 years and assess the cost on a per capita basis for the 25 Million citizens of AU. Ignoring interest costs, That’s over 1200 USD/mo per household of 4, plus tripling the electric rate to about 1.5 USD/kWh. If we take the Al Gore position that it needs to be done in 10 years, then double that cost.

              You see, it really doesn’t matter that you “want” to get rid of coal,gas, nukes, etc. It cannot be done because there isn’t enough raw material to do it with, not enough capital, and not enough manufacturing resources to do it.

              So tell me. What is the use of assessing CO2 penalty costs when there is no practically viable solution to the situation that doesn’t destroy society? Thus your position is irrelevant.

              If you’d like, I can post all the reference links and you can do the maths yourself, but will come up with the same rough answers.

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              • #
                Graeme#4

                Lance, I have heard that Australia’s power requirements could be met by building a huge solar solar farm in our outback. Is there a suitable rebuttal to this, apart from the huge transmission line costs?

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              • #
                Lance

                @Graeme#4 @3.1.2.1.1,

                RE: Can AU electrical generation requirements be met with a large solar facility in the Outback.

                Short answer: No.

                See: https://wattsupwiththat.com/2015/09/04/going-solar-system-requirements-for-100-u-s-solar-generated-utility-baseload-electricity/

                Synopsis: To replace the US baseload grid with solar generated power, IF panels could be manufactured, delivered, installed, and integrated at the rate of 1 sq. M / second, it would take 930 years and 600% of the total known world reserves of silver. For AU, it would only take 100 years.

                Besides that analysis, where does one obtain the demineralized water to wash down the panels every week in the AU outback? Or one must accept a 20% + loss of power due to dust and grime on the panels.

                As to the costs of transmission lines, please see

                https://www.wecc.org/Reliability/1210_BV_WECC_TransCostReport_Final.pdf

                As of 2012, the estimate is approximately 2 M USD/mile, exclusive of substations.

                For HVDC, the system is limited to not more than 5 substations for any length, and each substation is 250 M USD each.

                see https://electrical-engineering-portal.com/analysing-the-costs-of-high-voltage-direct-current-hvdc-transmission

                All of these costs would have to be allocated to the solar system on a per kWh basis as the solar system is requiring them. I’d guess after it is over, you’d be paying close to 2 USD/ kwh to amortize the costs and an additional $2000 USD/mo in infrastructure costs per household.

                Solar energy is Free. The equipment to convert it, distribute it, and maintain it, Isn’t.

                40

              • #
                Lance

                Oh,
                graeme#4, I almost forgot.

                You’d get Zero power for 16 hrs/day and Zero on any cloudy winter days, assuming one were foolish enough to do this. Because there is no sunlight sufficient to drive the system.

                Therefore, you’d need a 100% backup power system of some sort to power the grid for 16 hrs/day. Essentially, you’d need to double all of the costs, unless of course being without power for 16 hrs/day isn’t relevant.

                Even so, you’d need to plan for inrush current for inductive loads and that would mean a minimum of 50% gas turbine plants in addition to the solar to start the aircons and motor loads.

                There’s no free ride. “Gas, grass, or @ss, nobody rides for free”.

                I’m certain that TonyFromOz could elaborate on the infrastructure and peaking requirements. He’s a gifted person.

                Regards.

                30

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                Graeme#4

                Thanks for the info Lance. Will file it away in case the comment arises again in the MSM.

                10

          • #
            AndyG55

            “precautionary principle “

            Always this meaningless anti-science fall-back position.

            They pull it out of their **** when they know that haven’t got any actual science to back up their rampant alarmism.

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            • #
              Graeme#4

              A good article on what The Precautionary Principle is and how it has been corrupted over the last 35 years is: https://wattsupwiththat.com/2018/01/22/on-the-precautionary-principle/. I like the definition that is similar to the Hippocratic Oath for doctors: “First, do no harm”.

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            • #
              TdeF

              It was invented by the head of the Royal Society, Sir Paul Nurse in his argument to James Delingpole about treating a patient suspected of having cancer.
              In fact what he said shows he is not a real doctor as the hippocratic oath says ‘do no harm’. Treatments for cancer are potentially lethal, poisoning people within an inch of their lives in the hope of stimulating the immune system and killing cancer cells. You would never
              do this unless you were certain. Sir Paul Nurse and his precautionary principle would have him struck off as a doctor.

              The damage which has been done is immense and there is not the slightest sign of a change in CO2 levels either way. It’s as if man was not causing the rise in CO2 at all and that intervention is pointless, that the increase in CO2 is entirely natural and that killing the patient is unnecessary and morally wrong.

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                sophocles

                If a unit of atmosphere is 10,000 molecules, then the concentration of CO2 has gone from 3 molecules per unit of atmosphere to 4 molecules per unit of atmosphere.

                Totally Insignificant.

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              • #
                AndyG55

                The PP and its “climate science™” response, is akin to chopping off your arm because, according to a barmaid over in the US, you “might” have got a paper cut on your little finger.

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        • #
          Chad

          I have used this argument several times, and have referenced papers that show it.
          But they are dated .. 1999.. and complex.
          Do you have any up to date isotope analysis references that are easy for non technical alarmists to grasp. ?

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      • #
        Howie from Indiana

        It was never about the science. Most of the climate mafia probably know that CO2 is not a problem. CO2 is just a convenient scapegoat. Anyone who believes that a compound that is present in the atmosphere at a concentration of 4 molecules per 10000 molecules of air can cause any appreciable warming is living in lala land.
        CO2 concentrations might correlate with temperature over short periods but over longer periods there is no correlation. Wikipedia says that CO2 is the major long lived greenhouse gas. That is a blatant lie. Water in all its forms- water ice, liquid water and water vapor- is what keeps our planet within the bounds necessary for life. But the IPCC has little to say about the importance of water. They and their cohorts are masters at obfuscation. They should all be behind bars but unfortunately there are no laws against bad science.

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          TdeF

          Agreed. Also there is no bad science. There are only lies, religions. Chicanery.
          From the days of Rene Descartes any proposition without absolute proof is not true. Nothing is established science until proven true beyond any doubt.
          That was his rule and it has guided real scientists ever since. James Hanson’s crazy idea was just that. Now it’s one of the world’s biggest industries but it was never proven and now has been utterly disproven, not least by the fact that it is obviously wrong. Extreme events caused by +1C? Ridiculous.

          As for the IPCC, the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change formed in the same year of 1988, it is based on the idea of man made Climate Change. That is its reason d’etre. Like all organizations, it has to self justify. There is no science of Global Warming. It is disproven conjecture born in deceit by by two master manipulators, Al Gore and James Hansen who climbed into the roof of the congress on the hottest day of a hot summer, the summer solstice June 22nd 1988 and opened the windows to defeat the airconditioning. It continues to this day. No one would notice a change of 1C, so they fixed it. Lies and deceit. For a good cause. Themselves. And a Nobel prize for Peace. Somehow.

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        • #
          theRealUniverse

          That scapegoat was pushed at the Rio 1992 conference. They even admitted that CO2 doesnt matter THEN it was all about reducing the population and ‘saving the planet’ from ‘evil’ humans.

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    • #
      toorightmate

      TdeF,
      Ahh, but the “”"heatwave”"” in Paris has them all worried.
      It will peak at around 34C and be over 30C for four days.
      That must be the biggest heatwave EEEVVVVAAAAAHHHHHH!!!!!!

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      • #
        yarpos

        Dont be too harsh on them. The top half of Europe is not well set up to handle heat, it feels might unpleasant after a few days.

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          toorightmate

          I have had a few holidays in central and eastern Europe when it was mid 30s. It was bloody beautiful. So please don’t give me rubbish about mid 30s in Europe being a heatwave.
          A few days of mid 40s in Spain IS a heat wave, but that ain’t happening.

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            Graeme#4

            Might be ok for a holiday, but I was in Germany trying to work through the very hot 2003 summer, when daytime temps regularly rose to 35 and above. European workplaces and residences are not designed to cope well with that heat and it was a trial. Trying to hold business conferences in 38 temps with no air con was difficult. Was very glad to finally get out of there.

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      • #
        Greg in NZ

        “The 21 of june the day of the summer solstice, some rare and amazing noctilucent clouds were visible over Paris. It was around midnight”. It’s a sign!

        http://spaceweathergallery.com/indiv_upload.php?upload_id=154755

        After over a month of a quiet spotless sun, the super-cold upper atmosphere above the northern hemisphere came alive with frozen meteorite vapour ice-crystals, enchanting photographers like Bertrand Kulik who took this spectacular shot of noctilucent clouds dancing in the summer sky above the Eiffel Tower. What do these crazy Continentals want: the -270˚C of outer space or the pleasant and lovely 30˚C of summer in olde gaye Paree? Bonjour garçon!

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    Bulldust

    I know I posted this on an earlier thread, but I think it got lost because it was buried. For those interested in free speech and have issues with bit tech companies throttling it, make sure to catch the Project Veritas video on Bitchute:

    https://www.bitchute.com/video/re9Xp6cdkro/

    PV normally posts on Youtube as well, but this is what happens when you criticise Google on a Google-owned product:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=re9Xp6cdkro

    The fact that Google removed it quickly (I heard it already had a million views within a day) speaks volumes. Several Youtube commentators are on this issue already but the MSM is deafening silent.

    PV is doing an amazing job as are the whistleblowers who do so at their own peril.

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      theRealUniverse

      re #4 OOPS it must have upset ‘GOD’ (google censorship)
      “This video is no longer available due to a privacy claim by a third party.”

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    • #
      Bulldust

      The main thing that surprises me is how little interest people have in free speech. We truly don’t deserve it, if that is the state of affairs. Sleepwalking into a 1984 dystopia.

      10

  • #
    Ross

    PM May lasting “legacy” : https://www.breitbart.com/europe/2019/06/25/britain-signs-1-trillion-net-zero-carbon-suicide-note/

    From the article. Canadian journalist Terance Corcoran is quoted :

    “In 2018, world consumption of fossil fuels rose to 11,865 million tonnes of oil equivalent (mtoe). To get that down to near zero by 2050 as proposed by the zeroists would require a lot of alternative energy sources.

    University of Colorado scientist Roger Pielke Jr. did some of the rough numbers. “There are 11,161 days until 2050. Getting to net zero by 2050 requires replacing one mtoe of fossil fuel consumption every day starting now.” On a global basis, such a transition would require building the equivalent of one new 1.5-gigawatt nuclear plant every day for the next 30 years.”

    I wonder if all those protesting students in Australia, NZ and elsewhere can get their heads around those numbers and reality.

    180

    • #
      TdeF

      Our Prime Minister is building his memorial, a machine to pump the water from the Snowy Mountain Hydro scheme back up the mountain, making the cheapest Greenest form of power the most expensive and coal dependent. It goes with his thousands of windmills which work when they feel like it or solar which works best at lunch time when no one needs it. However it is a tiddler at $6Billion to $12Billion. Presumably he gets to cut a ribbon and gets his name on a rock. Self important dills, Turnbull and May.

      130

      • #
        PeterPetrum

        Our EX Prime Minister. However, our current PM has not got the message that there will be a roughly 20% loss of power in pumping it up and letting it flow down again and, as it will probably be done at night when wind is low, it will be coal-fired power that is used and lost. Just build a coal-fired power station instead – please!

        70

      • #
        Graeme#4

        6-12 billion? That sounds well over the costs advised in Snowy Hydro’s information, but probably realistic.

        20

    • #
      theRealUniverse

      The insane stupidity of ‘eliminating CO2 producing fuels’ WONT even make one solitary difference to the CO2 levels!!!!!!! Mostly due to the ‘half life’ of CO2 in the atmosphere, and natural sources (including 7500000000 humans and 10^x other life forms breathing it out) and sinks.

      70

    • #
      beowulf

      Just when you think she can do no more harm, the worst part is that this zero-carbon idiocy may only be May’s penultimate act. In another act of bastardry she has also vowed not to hand over power unless a Tory leader emerges who has the full confidence of parliament. In practice this means that if Boris gets the nod as new leader by the Party members, but a large number of Tory MPs fail to support him (which is virtually inevitable), Theresa could still refuse to step down as PM, and carry on as caretaker for the foreseeable future even though she has already been voted out in a torrent of tears. This would leave parliament in limbo at May’s whim, either that or there are 2 PMs. I recall that there have been at least 3 popes simultaneously, so why not 2 PMs?

      If Boris does swing it into No.10, he is likely to call a general election to clean out some of the Remainer camp in the Tories and aim for an alliance with Farage to consolidate his power. Farage has made it very clear though that if Boris reneges on a full Brexit, then the Brexit Party will show no mercy to the Tories in the next election. A new poll suggests that Labour would also lose over 40 seats to the Brexit Party in their working class heartland in the north.

      Everyone with more than half a brain is of course deadly scared of Labour winning an election, thus putting rabid Marxist Jeremy Corbyn into No.10.

      Meanwhile the Brexit Party is calling for an investigation into postal vote fraud in the recent by-election which it lost by about 600 votes to Labour. It transpires that a convicted vote fraudster was part of the Labour team in the tally room, plus a couple of Labour workers boasted on Twitter that they had destroyed over 1,000 Brexit Party postal votes before they were counted. Watch this space.

      100

      • #
        Kevin Lohse

        The TBP vote destruction story was a fantasist claiming his 15 minutes of fame, didn’t happen. However, there are 5 separate police investigations concurrently running into alleged electoral malpractice in the Peterborough by-election. As far as I know, the Electoral Commission, a QUANGO of the great and good and Remainers to a person, have yet to declare an interest.

        50

        • #
          beowulf

          Thanks Kevin. Your Electoral Commission seems to be devoting an inordinate amount of time going through the Brexit books again and again, suddenly concerned about foreign influence. Wonder if they’ll bring the same level of scrutiny to the other parties. How much cash did Soros pump into the anti-Brexit campaign before the referendum?

          We’re lucky out here in Oz where our Electoral Commission is completely non-partisan and totally independent. Compulsory voting might seem a chore to some, but I believe it helps keep things above-board too.

          20

      • #
        theRealUniverse

        I have seen info on Boris that would make you cringe, dont be too sure about Mr Boris being a good guy. sorry.

        21

        • #
          beowulf

          I don’t doubt that. I never said he was a good guy. His PMship would certainly be noteworthy if he decides to change girlfriends again whilst in office.

          I think he’s a total loose cannon, but he’s all there is. If he delivers Brexit then he is worth the risk, because as sure as hell none of the others will.

          His proposal to use GATT cuts through all the “deal” and backstop lies and garbage that the others have been pretending were impediments to Brexit. He must have some ability — at least under his leadership London wasn’t the knife-crime and acid attack capital of the western world.

          40

      • #
        Serp

        Rod Liddle has a piece on the Peterborough by-election in the current Spectator –vote buying, ballot burning, anomalous postal vote proportions and so on in an election everybody knew was bound to return the Brexit Party candidate but didn’t.

        “In 2016 the Electoral Commission identified a bunch of areas in the UK which were vulnerable to voter fraud: Blackburn, Darwen, Bradford, Bristol, Burnley, Calderdale, Coventry, Derby, Hyndburn, Kirklees, Luton, Oldham, Pendle, Peterborough, Slough, Tower Hamlets, Walsall and Woking. Notice anything about those towns and cities? What is it that they have in common, do you reckon? The Electoral Commission, at the time, had no doubts, even if it worded its warnings very carefully, suggesting only the ‘vulnerability of some South Asian communities, specifically those with roots in parts of Pakistan or Bangladesh, to electoral fraud’.”

        30

  • #
    glen Michel

    Plus ca change, as the French say.The question is how long and how much damage will be done. I think Europe is a worry and needs a reset.Back to the nation states!

    50

  • #
    pat

    taxpayer-funded ABC promoting turning off electricity in winter. doubt if any of the ABC staff will join up:

    25 Jun: ABC 7.30 Report: Behind-the-scenes battle over future of Australia’s energy market
    Customers can save thousands of dollars by switching off their energy use at peak times with a new ‘demand response’ concept…
    TRANSCRIPT
    LIZ HOBDAY, REPORTER: At home, with a new baby during a cold winter, this Melbourne family is cranking up its energy use.
    BETHANY JAMES: You need to stay warm, so we’ve definitely noticed an increase there.

    LIZ HOBDAY: But Bethany James and Michael Basson are trying to save power and money by taking part in a big experiment that’s part-funded by Australia’s clean energy agency.
    It’s called demand response.
    They’re trying to cut their energy use at times when electricity demand is high – not just reducing their bills, but even getting paid.

    MICHAEL BASSON: We’re been offered a $10 discount, or $10 credit on the account, for each time we’ve met our goal.
    BETHANY JAMES: I think it’s quite doable, and I think that it’s good for the environment, helps out the grid.
    I think it’s a really positive thing to do…

    DAN CASS, THE AUSTRALIA INSTITUTE: Few people realise, we pay a lot for electricity during the heatwaves of summer.
    Generally, wholesale energy is about $100 a megawatt hour. During summer it, goes up to $14,500 a megawatt hour, and we all pay for that.

    LIZ HOBDAY: Demand response is also being used during heatwaves to prevent blackouts, when poles and wires companies force big energy users to switch off their power.
    DAN CASS: What we’re saying is that’s proven the technologies. Let’s open it up as a market option…

    LIZ HOBDAY: Within weeks, Australia’s Energy Market Commission is set to make a draft ruling on whether to allow new players into the demand response game…
    https://www.abc.net.au/7.30/behind-the-scenes-battle-over-future-of/11243540

    demand response game! yes, indeed.

    90

  • #
    pat

    no surprise theirABC jumped on this one:

    AUDIO: 3min 20sec: 25 Jun: ABC The World Today: ‘Reef grief’: climate concerns inspiring fear rather than action on Great Barrier Reef
    By Isobel Roe on The World Today
    Featured:
    Matt Curnock, CSIRO researcher
    Dr Dean Miller, reef tourism expert
    Kelly O’Shannessy, Australian Conservation Foundation chief executive
    https://www.abc.net.au/radio/programs/worldtoday/reef-grief:-climate-concerns-inspiring-fear-rather-than-action/11244110

    25 Jun: TheConversation:
    by Matt Curnock, Social Scientist, CSIRO and Scott Heron, Senior Lecturer, James Cook University
    Disclosure Statement:
    This research by the authors uses data from the Social and Economic Long-Term Monitoring Program (SELTMP) for the Great Barrier Reef, with funding provided by the Australian and Queensland Governments as part of the Reef 2050 Integrated Monitoring and Reporting Program (2017-2019) and the Australian Government’s National Environmental Research Program (2011-2015), Tropical Ecosystems Hub.
    Scott Heron receives funding from the Australian Research Council

    BOTTOM: The authors would like to acknowledge Nadine Marshall, who co-wrote this article while employed by CSIRO. We thank our other co-authors of the Nature Climate Change paper, including Lauric Thiault (National Center for Scientific Research, PSL Université Paris), Jessica Hoey and Genevieve Williams (Great Barrier Reef Marine Park Authority), Bruce Taylor and Petina Pert (CSIRO Land and Water) and Jeremy Goldberg (CSIRO & James Cook University). The scientific results and conclusions, as well as any views or opinions expressed herein, are those of the authors and do not necessarily reflect those of the Australian Government or the Minister for the Environment, or the Queensland Government, or indicate commitment to any particular course of action.
    http://theconversation.com/sadness-disgust-anger-fear-for-the-great-barrier-reef-made-climate-change-feel-urgent-119232

    12

    • #
      el gordo

      ‘Emotional appeals are widely used in media stories and in social media campaigns, and appealing to fear in particular can heighten a story’s impact and spread online.’

      Yep, its obvious a strong El Nino caused the bleaching, but somehow the MSM turned it into a global warming emergency.

      60

      • #
        Peter Fitzroy

        What caused the strong el nino?

        211

        • #
          Bill in Oz

          They are ‘NORMAL’ Fitz !
          Just part of the global weather climate system
          The Spanish arriving as conquistadoes in Peru in 1530′s
          Noticed the El Ninos.
          Lots of documented ones in the 500 odd years since.
          Which is the other half of the La Nina/El Nino phenomenon.
          When Peru has an El Nino, we have a La Nina.
          And nobody has any idea why,

          60

          • #
            Peter Fitzroy

            The key word was “strong’ – as why would that one be bigger than the others, for example, the last 3 events were successively stronger. Try to keep up

            110

            • #
              Bill in Oz

              Are you our local village idiot Peter ?

              50

            • #
              AndyG55

              I doubt anyone is capable of keeping up with your wanton display of gross ignorance, PF. !

              Those El Nino events WERE NOT caused by CO2.

              and they WERE NOT caused by any human factor.

              And they were the ONLY warming in the last 40 or more years.

              Thanks for harping on the El Ninos, PF, you have just disproven any human influence in very slight, but the highly beneficial, warming in the last 40-50 years.

              And before that… there was COOLING for 30 or so years.

              40

            • #
              sophocles

              … and the planet’s magnetic field has been declining significantly over the last few decades, so the solar wind can mix up the ionosphere more freely. As it declines, so the solar wind’s effects strengthen.
              The ENSO Cycle is driven by the Sun, not by CO2.
              Landscheidt’s work has been around for a long time. But of course, Fitzroy, you have to be the only person on this blog to have missed it. Space Cadet.
              In the meantime, https://www.john-daly.com/sun-enso/sun-enso.htm.

              I hope you’re ready for the magnetic reversal when it happens. Because there is always an extinction event during a magnetic excursion.

              Seeing as you asked: see https://magenticreversal.org. And:
              https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=5&v=VVgUZv9ccyQ The #1 Risk to Earth.

              40

          • #
            el gordo

            ‘When Peru has an El Nino, we have a La Nina.’

            Nope.

            20

            • #
              glen Michel

              Cold water from the Humboldt current creates drier air over western Sth America.Same cold water travels west and interacts with warmerwater near Australia.Strong easterly winds combined with interface of cold upwelling
              and warm.

              20

        • #
          AndyG55

          NOT CO2, that is for sure.

          NOT HUMANS, that is also for certain.

          Its called WEATHER, or NATURAL CLIMATE VARIABILITY, and was probably due to the delayed action of the Grand Solar Maximum series of the latter half of last century.

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        • #
          theRealUniverse

          El Nino-La Nina is a quasi oscillation which requires a driving force in physics. CO2 isnt a driving force. Id probably look upward to the sky for that as AG55 suggests.

          70

        • #
          TedM

          “What caused the strong el nino?” A cyclone close to the equator, that interfered with the trade winds allowing the warm pool in the western equatorial Pacific to flow eastwards. This created an extensive warm surface area across the equatorial Pacific. PF you would like to give an explanation of how CO2 caused the elnino. We are all waiting PF.

          120

        • #
          Graeme#4

          A very good source of information re El Niños and La Niñas is Bob Tisdale. Recommend looking up his articles and books.

          30

        • #
          el gordo

          ‘What caused the strong el nino?’

          ENSO remains an enigma, but Ian Wilson has this lunar hypothesis which may gives us an inkling of how it works.

          20

          • #
            theRealUniverse

            Plot the dam ENSO on a graph with real data and look for related OTHER cyclic planetry / astro phenomenon, then you might have a chance.

            20

          • #
            glen Michel

            Of course the southern oscillation is the pressure component.relative pressure in Tahiti and Darwin.

            20

        • #
  • #
    pat

    also no surprise:

    AUDIO: 2min 36sec: 25 Jun: ABC The World Today: Religious group campaigns for action on climate change
    By Henry Zwartz on The World Today
    In the wake of controversial projects including Adani, members of Australia’s religious community have banded together to call for a halt on all new coal and gas projects.
    The unusual alliance, called the Australian Religious Response to Climate Change, is meeting today at a Catholic church in Sydney.
    The group of 150 religious leaders from across the country issued an open letter to the Prime Minister, Scott Morrison, urging the Government to act on climate change.
    Featured:
    Imam Ahmed Abdo, New South Wales Council of Imams
    Sister Libby Rogerson, Catholic nun
    https://www.abc.net.au/radio/programs/worldtoday/religious-group-campaigns-for-action-on-climate-change/11244096

    below – Related:

    12 May: ABC: Federal election 2019: Why Christians on the left are a growing voting bloc
    By Karen Tong
    Diversity is a strength and a weakness
    The religious left is more diverse than the Christian right and a willingness to work with people from other religions is more common on the left.
    Thea Ormerod is Catholic and the president of the Australian Religious Response to Climate Change. The group’s management committee includes a Buddhist, a rabbi and an Anglican priest…

    So who will get their vote?
    The natural fit for many would be the Greens.
    “You’ve got this party which I think, objectively speaking, is probably the most hostile to religion in terms of its rhetoric,” (Jonathan Cole from the Centre for Public and Contextual Theology at Charles Sturt University) said of the Greens.
    “Yet there’s this natural constituency amongst devout, religious believers. I don’t know how that dynamic works. They may get a vote from some of these people, and they may not.”…
    https://www.abc.net.au/news/2019-05-12/federal-election-christian-left-on-the-rise/11103838

    28 Apr 2017: ABC: Support for the Adani Coal Mine is Scientifically and Morally Unjustifiable
    by Stephen Pickard and Thea Ormerod
    Right Rev. Professor Stephen Pickard is Executive Director of the Australian Centre for Christianity and Culture, Charles Sturt University. Thea Ormerod is President of the Australian Religious Response to Climate Change
    Here in Australia, faith communities have a less brash Prime Minister than the present U.S. incumbent but we are grappling with similarly destructive policies.
    Federal government support for the Adani “mega coal mine” is the target of an open letter released today, signed by prominent leaders from Australia’s faith communities – including Uniting Church, Buddhists, Quakers and Catholic.
    The letter resonates with recent pro-science marches, which highlighted the gap between policy makers and scientific evidence. The world’s spiritual traditions place a high value on truthfulness, and the truth about climate change is no exception…
    https://www.abc.net.au/religion/support-for-the-adani-coal-mine-is-scientifically-and-morally-un/10095830

    shut down theirABC.

    41

    • #
      pat

      note re ABC 2017 Adani article:

      - Here in Australia, faith communities have a less brash Prime Minister than the present U.S. incumbent -

      of course, this was written when Turnbull was PM, and would not be written re PM Morrison.

      50

    • #
      TdeF

      They mean Pro FAKE Science marches.

      40

  • #
    Kinky Keith

    I’ve made up my mind. When I get home I’ll begin my next business that will be based on recent sightings in the unusually heavy snow conditions around the world.

    I don’t want to give too much detail because someone else may try to get in in front of me and take all the profit.

    But briefly, there have been sightings in the snow that suggest a worldwide effort is needed to save this warm climate species from extinction. With crowd funding it should be possible to extract this species from imminent extinction.

    Bill Gates will be approached to see if he agrees to let us use his facilities as a safe house.

    More later.

    KK

    80

    • #
      Bill in Oz

      KK Go for it ! Great idea !
      Can I suggest a name ?
      “The Warm Ark Project “

      50

      • #
        Kinky Keith

        Bill,

        The new product marketing will be based on that used by the Climate Change™ managers in New York and Bruxelles.

        I’ll be marketing:

        White Elephants™

        KK

        50

        • #
          Graeme No.3

          KK
          How about White Shivering Elephants (WSE) or Cold White Pachederms (CWP)?
          A good 3 letter acronym helps, maybe?

          Or an emotional, if fact free, appeal (as per Polar Bears) with “Save the Elephants”. Although it would be difficult to get an elephant to cling to an ice floe.

          40

          • #
            Graeme No.3

            Well, if I am going into moderation how about “Save the Elephants, shoot a Greenie” ?

            40

  • #
    pat

    most comments are posted before the delayed hearing:

    25 Jun: Judith Curry: Hearing on climate change and natural disasters: Today
    The link to my written testimony is here [Testimony Oversight and Reform 2019 v2].
    Link to Mann’s testimony is here [ ]Mann.20190612.Testimony.

    FROM COMMENTS (NOT IN STRICT TIME ORDER)
    Ron Graf | June 25, 2019 at 8:55 pm| Reply
    “It’s very sad…”
    What is sadder is that the subcommittee was clearly uninterested in a scientific debate. They only wanted support to their own talking points. And, neither side seemed to be aware of the obvious point that blaming man-caused global warming as the culprit for every ill has zero practical policy payoff, even though that was the essence of one of their expert witness’s testimony. The US cannot control the weather or world CO2 emissions. They would rather scapegoat conservative caused weather instead of liberal forest mis-management. It’s that simple.
    The kicker was Mann’s parting shots at Dr. Curry and his claim that AMO was just a mis-interpretation of the effects of the Clean Air Act.
    Wow, think about that last claim. (We know AOC didn’t.) How did US policy instantly change global mean temperature? And, if it did wouldn’t there be more questions on that?
    https://judithcurry.com/2019/06/25/hearing-on-climate-change-and-natural-disasters-today/

    50

    • #
      el gordo

      ‘…the subcommittee was clearly uninterested in a scientific debate. They only wanted support to their own talking points.’

      Precisely, these talkfests are a waste of time.

      60

      • #
        Bill in Oz

        The masses like “Funnies”
        That path will work far better than explaining the science
        To the masses.

        40

    • #
      TdeF

      Not only can’t the US control worldwide CO2 emissions. So called emissions are irrelevant. World CO2 is set by the oceans and the sun. Our contribution is negligible. I have news for everyone. People are irrelevant. Volcanoes and asteriods can devastate this planet more than all our atom bombs.
      We are ants on the golf course. Except that your God cares about everyone.

      In the Meaning of Life

      “So remember, when you’re feeling very small and insecure,
      How amazingly unlikely is your birth;
      And pray that there’s intelligent life somewhere out in space,
      ‘Cause there’s bugger all down here on Earth!”

      141

      • #
        theRealUniverse

        Whits Island NZ (active volcanic cone just of the North Island, on volcanic alert level 2) is right now spewing out 1900 tons of SO2 a day! Not sure but there will be some CO2 with that Id guess. Just shows nature has it all, we are nothing.

        90

        • #
          Greg in NZ

          https://www.sunlive.co.nz/news/212996-no-danger-to-public-from-new-bop-fumerole.html

          And not only Whakaari / White Island – “A fissure opened up on a chine overlooking the famous Whakarewarewa village [Rotorua] yesterday and has not abated”.

          “A fault line runs along the bank [said the Council’s geothermal inspector]. This event is a bit unusual in that we have the ejector being thrown out and it’s a lot worse than normal”.

          Ejector? In Maori mythology, Rūaumoko is the god of earthquakes and volcanoes – the ejector of fiery mud and boiling steam from the underworld below. That which is spewed out is generally known as ‘ejecta’. Boom BOOM! Young journos and their mePhone auto spellcheck, huh.

          30

  • #
    pat

    24 Jun: Daily Caller: House Democrats Spread ‘Lies’ About Climate Change And Hurricanes, Scientist Says
    by Michael Bastasch
    https://www.dailycaller.com/2019/06/24/house-democrats-climate-change/

    25 Jun: ClimateChangeNews: Wealthy countries resist global tax on carbon offsets
    Australia and Japan are among opponents of a proposal to restrict the supply of carbon credits for trading across borders, at climate talks in Bonn
    By Natalie Sauer
    https://www.climatechangenews.com/2019/06/25/wealthy-countries-resist-global-tax-carbon-offsets/

    10

  • #
    pat

    25 Jun: Reuters: OPINION: Finance is the key to keeping climate talks afloat
    by Mohamed Adow, (global climate lead at Christian Aid)
    * Any views expressed in this opinion piece are those of the author and not of Thomson Reuters Foundation
    Without money to make sure countries can afford to curb emissions, our global life raft will sink.
    The world seems to finally be waking up to the fact we are in the midst of a climate emergency ETC…

    Analysis conducted by the International Justice Initiative, shows that developing countries need more than $4.4 trillion to fund their national climate plans. While not all of this is expected to be provided through international climate finance, the funding need of developing countries is far greater than the $100 billion per year that rich countries have pledged to mobilise by 2020…

    According to WRI’s replenishment contributions calculator, France, UK, Japan, Sweden, and Canada have an important role to play in a successful GCF replenishment. So do Australia and the US who are currently shirking their financial responsibilities…READ ON
    http://news.trust.org//item/20190625144913-5uwo1/

    01

  • #
    pat

    headline says we “lead”; story says something else; ends with the RE fantasy:

    25 Jun: SMH: Australia ***leads the G20 nations’ pack in aid for coal-fired power
    By Peter Hannam
    Subsidies for coal-fired power production almost tripled in the three years to 2016-17 among G20 nations, with Australia providing among the largest support, an international study has found.
    Subsidies for coal-fired power production almost tripled in the three years to 2016-17 among G20 nations, with Australia providing ***among the largest support, an international study has found.
    The report by UK think tank, the Overseas Development Institute, found aid for such power stations soared from US$17.2 billion ($24.7 billion) in 2013-14 to $US47 billion in the most recent year…
    The highest amounts of total support to coal consumption were identified in Indonesia at US$2.3 billion per year, Italy and Australia, both about US$870 million, the US at US$708 million, and the UK with US$682 million, it reported…

    ‘Ecological crisis’
    Jamie Hanson, head of campaigns at Greenpeace Australia Pacific, said Australia was in an “ecological crisis driven by climate change”.
    “Coal is the primary cause of the climate damage that is causing extinctions all over the country, drought and fire that has torched ancient rainforests, and that has killed half the Great Barrier Reef in the last five years,” he said.
    “Climate-destroying government handouts to the coal industry defy all logic – especially now, when we know that clean renewable energy is the cheapest form of new power.”…
    https://www.smh.com.au/environment/climate-change/g20-nations-aid-for-coal-fired-power-triples-in-three-years-report-20190625-p5213r.html

    11

  • #
    Zane

    Well well well. With Yallourn set to close and plunge Victoria oblast into the dark ages, the unions who run the state have expressed an interest in investigating noo-koo-leer energy ( note ” nuclear ” turned into a three syllable woid ). Rumours that Commissar Danielsky Andrewskovich was sighted having borscht for lunch with the RuSSian ambassador and the head of Rosatom’s Direktor of Export Operations, Asia-Pacifika Region, could not be confirmed:). But somebody was nodding his head vigorously like a bipolar penguin and saying ” Da Da Da ” a lotsky. Was that you, Premier?

    It’s all goodsky, comrades!

    80

    • #
      theRealUniverse

      Well if you are gonna buy a nuke power plant, Russian ones are the best tech. DONT buy Westinghouse the tech is 40 years out of date!

      50

  • #
  • #
    pat

    it’s hard to know which of these videos is the worst:

    23 Jun: Youtube: 12min53sec: SkyNewsUK: Special report: A New Climate
    The government’s chief adviser on climate change has told Sky News that the Prime Minister’s plan to eliminate Britain’s emissions will fail unless carbon dioxide cuts are dramatically stepped up.
    Sky’s Thomas Moore travels around the UK looking at how climate change is affecting the country, and what communities are doing about it.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1k-5_WKUtBM

    25 Jun: Youtube: 13min07sec: Sky News: A New Climate: Costing the Earth
    The government has promised that the UK will be the first modern economy to be a net zero carbon emissions country by 2050.
    Sky News’ Economics Editor follows Great Britain’s journey of pollution from the industrial revolution to now, and the challenges faced reaching net zero emissions by 2050.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DK3iNyoctHs

    25 Jun: Youtube: 7min24sec: Sky News: ‘Our survival is on the line over climate change’ Climate change activist and founder of education group Zero Hour ***Jamie Margolin explained to Sky News the urgency she feels over tackling carbon emissions.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fraIOPQBMd0

    ***Jamie Margolin
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jamie_Margolin

    read some:

    17 Jun: i-D Vice: How I became a radical climate activist
    17-year-old ***Jamie Margolin tells i-D how she started an international climate movement, and in the process discovered her power as a queer Latina in Trump’s America.
    Faced with a fascist climate denying administration, I could no longer hide. So I joined a local environmental group called Plant for The Planet Seattle and met my first climate mentor, Michael Foster, a climate activist who uses civil disobedience to draw urgent attention to the climate emergency…
    Zero Hour’s next big action is The Youth Climate Summit in Miami Florida from 12 – 14 July. It’s part of an international weekend of climate action. You can find out more about it here .
    https://i-d.vice.com/en_uk/article/vb9q3m/jamie-margolin-youth-climate-activist

    11

  • #
    pat

    25 Jun: Age: Yallourn coal-fired power plant due to shut down from 2029
    By Adam Carey and Nick Toscano
    Energy Australia has warned household electricity prices could be pushed to record highs if the shutdown is poorly planned, creating energy capacity shortfalls…
    The Andrews government is considering advice from an expert panel led by former Gillard government climate change minister Greg Combet to cut Victoria’s greenhouse gas emissions by between 45 and 60 per cent by 2030…

    Environment Victoria campaigns manager Nicholas Aberle said Yallourn was the dirtiest coal-fired power plant in the country, and one of the most unreliable…
    https://www.theage.com.au/politics/victoria/yallourn-coal-fired-power-plant-due-to-shut-down-from-2029-20190625-p5212q.html

    AUDIO: 3min29sec: 25 Jun: 2GB: Fears major Victorian power station could close by 2025
    by Tom Elliott
    Yallourn Power Station, a brown coal-fired power station in the Latrobe Valley, provides 22 per cent of Victoria’s energy supply and employs 500 people.
    It’s slated for closure in 2032, but there are new fears it could be closed in just six years, in a state government bid to slash carbon emissions.
    EnergyAustralia, which owns the power station, is understood to have briefed workers on the possibility of an early closure…

    Yallourn power station is one of the most unreliable power stations (LINK 3AW Richie Merzian TAI interview/MORE RE: 17 Jun) in the country.
    https://www.3aw.com.au/fears-major-victorian-power-station-could-close-by-2025/

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    pat

    no mention this is a Reuters’ piece; uses percentages without fully reporting quantities:

    26 Jun: news.com.au: India reduces Australian coal imports
    Supply interruptions have led India to decrease its dependence on Australian coking coal, by lifting imports from the US and Canada.
    by Sudarshan Varadhan
    India has moved to reduce its dependence on Australian coal by increasing shipments of coking coal from the United States and Canada, with those countries’ share rising to a sixth of all Indian imports of the fuel.
    Australia’s share in India’s coking coal market fell to ***71 per cent, or 36.91 million tonnes, during the year ended March 2019 – from about ***88 per cent three years ago, according to India coal ministry data.
    The United States and Canada had a 5.6 per cent share of the market three years ago…

    Customs Data on Tuesday showing China’s imports of Australian coking coal in May plunged 49.3 per cent from a month earlier, as buyers held off purchases because of uncertainty regarding government policy on Australian imports…READ ON
    https://www.news.com.au/world/breaking-news/india-reduces-australian-coal-imports/news-story/2d326087b381ff137a7e37284378aefe

    quite a different story here:

    26 Jun: Reuters: Canada, U.S. gain as India cuts dependence on Australian coking coal
    by Sudarshan Varadhan
    Overall Indian coking coal imports ***rose 10.3% to 51.84 million tons, while imports of thermal coal – mostly used by utilities – ***rose 13.72% during 2018-19.
    Higher Indian coal imports are a boon for international miners such as Indonesia’s Adaro Energy, ***Australia’s Whitehaven Coal, U.S. coal miner Peabody Energy Corp and global commodity merchants such as Glencore.

    ***India expects its coking coal demand to more than double in 10 years as the country plans to increase its crude steel production to 300 million tons by 2030 from current annual production of 132 million tons…

    Rate of growth of thermal coal imports from countries such as Russia and Australia were largely in line with an ***overall surge in imports, while coal imports from Mozambique outpaced overall growth, up 37.4% to 4.85 million tons.
    Australian thermal coal exports to India could rise once Adani Enterprises’ Carmichael mine starts exporting, which the company expects to do in two years.
    https://www.reuters.com/article/us-india-coal-imports/canada-u-s-gain-as-india-cuts-dependence-on-australian-coking-coal-idUSKCN1TQ234

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  • #
    pat

    same Reuters’ writer:

    25 Jun: Reuters: India plans to add 500 GW renewable energy by 2030: government
    by Sudarshan Varadhan
    “By 2030 India plans to establish 500 GW of Renewable Energy capacity,” Anand Kumar, senior official at India’s renewable energy ministry, said in a statement.
    “India would have installed 175 GW of renewable energy capacity by 2022 without taking into account large hydro and 225 GW including large hydro,” Kumar added…

    ***But research analysts have been skeptical about India meeting its ambitious targets…
    India’s annual coal demand rose 9.1% to 991.35 million tonnes during the year ended March 2019, Coal Minister Pralhad Joshi told parliament on Monday. A ban on the use of petroleum coke, a dirtier alternative to coal, in some parts of the country, led to a rise in coal imports…
    https://www.reuters.com/article/us-india-renewables/india-plans-to-add-500-gw-renewable-energy-by-2030-government-idUSKCN1TQ1R9

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    • #
      pat

      25 Jun: DryCargoMag: China’s May thermal coal import rises 35% on year as market activity picks up
      Source: S&P Global Platts
      China imported 20.68 million mt of thermal coal in May, up by about 19.3% from April and 34.8% from a year ago, according to the coal import data released by the General Administration of Customs on Sunday.
      According to the data, China imported 9.89 million mt of lignite in May, up 2.49% month on month, while import of bituminous coal was up 40.31% from 7.69 million mt in April to 10.79 million mt in May.

      Total coal imports from January to May, including coking coal, was 127.39 million mt, up 5.5% from 120.73 million mt a year ago. Last year, China’s overall coal import was around 281 million mt, with thermal coal accounting for about 74% of the total volume…

      Several trades were reportedly concluded for Australian high-ash 5,500 kcal/kg NAR grade of coal when it hit a multi-year low of around $55/mt FOB Newcastle in mid-March and also amid the prospect of a relaxation of the import curbs on Australian cargoes…
      China’s custom authorities are looking to keep this year’s imports at levels similar to that of last year, but there has been no official announcement with regards to this, industry sources said.
      https://www.drycargomag.com/chinas-may-thermal-coal-import-rises-35-percent-on-year-as-market-activity-picks-up

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      • #
        pat

        25 Jun: SteelGuru: FICCI Seeks Zero Duty On Coke & Coking Coal Imports
        The Federation of Indian Chambers of Commerce and Industry is lobbying the country’s government to remove basic import duties on coking coal and met coke to protect domestic steelmakers. Ficci wants Delhi to scrap a 2.5% import duty on coking coal and a 5% import duty on met coke in the next federal budget on 5 July, which it said would help the industry to be cost competitive…
        https://steelguru.com/steel/ficci-seeks-zero-duty-on-coke-coking-coal-imports/542861

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  • #
    Zane

    Funny how so many deluded warmists come from cold countries… Sweden, Canada, Germany, and of course the UK which is in many ways the ground zero of the entire scam, with the Met Office Hadley Centre and Climatic Research Unit of the University of East Anglia, the BBC, and the Guardian all acting as stormtroopers for the Green blitzkrieg on coal and fossil fuels. And Scotland loves its wind energy.

    I like tropical zones, myself. So do most people, since that is where the largest proportion of the earth’s population reside.

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    • #
      theRealUniverse

      Its funny how humans migrated to the equatorial regions during the last glaciation..wonder why that was? / sarc.

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  • #
    pat

    25 Jun: FoxNews: Jay Sekulow: Obama administration’s anti-Trump actions revealed in newly disclosed documents
    VIDEO: Hannity/Sekulow 25/6/19 5min18sec
    Stunning new information just released by the American Center for Law and Justice (ACLJ) shows that the Obama administration stepped up efforts – just days before President Trump took office – to undermine Trump and his administration.

    The ACLJ, where I serve as chief counsel, has obtained records that show the Office of the Director of National Intelligence, under Director James Clapper, eagerly pushed to get new procedures as part of an anti-Trump effort. The procedures increased access to raw signals intelligence before the conclusion of the Obama administration, just days before President Trump was inaugurated…
    Consider what we now know about the nature and degree of Deep State opposition to President Trump…READ ALL
    https://www.foxnews.com/opinion/jay-sekulow-obama-administrations-anti-trump-actions-revealed-in-newly-disclosed-documents

    31min10sec to 34min50sec – Wind energy segment: ‘”Green” energy putting fishing industry in danger’:

    Youtube: 35min16sec Tucker Carlson Tonight 6/25/19 Fox News
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1VYX4ov7VeA

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  • #
    Zane

    The super funds are still rabbiting about ” putting a price on carbon ” and ” phasing out coal “. Krazy on toast.

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    • #
      Yonniestone

      My super was recently changed to another provider through my employer, upon perusal of their website I was actually shocked at how much PC. SJW. and climate crap was on there.

      Being one of the top super funds I can only hope they remember to handle the money side of things after saving the planet and everyone from themselves.

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      • #
        Kinky Keith

        It’s a big worry.

        The managers of these “Funds” seemingly are not in touch with any reality apart from those relating to their own Executive Board Member Pay Packages.

        They do not appreciate that all deposits into accounts are related to a definite amount of work and effort and therefore are untroubled by investments in Renewables that might go belly up.

        No shame, no conscience, no responsibility.

        KK

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  • #
    David-of-Cooyal-in-Oz

    Another example of the absolute reliability of the BoM’s computer models and forecasts:
    Mudgee airport today (Wed Jun 26) forecast: plus (! accurate) 3;
    actual plus (still accurate, and welcome) 8.9.
    Observed error 5.9 degrees celsius.
    I’m glad the error wasn’t in the opposite direction.

    https://www.weatherzone.com.au/nsw/central-tablelands/mudgee

    The link will only show both numbers for a few more hours when it will be updated and today’s forecast number will go.
    Cheers
    Dave B

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    • #
      Adaminaby Angler

      Likewise, Cooma AP (930 m AMSL) was forecast a maximum of 9° C upon the 23rd of June, yet it merely reached 5.4° C by maxima.

      30

      • #
        Greg in NZ

        Alexandra in inland Central Otago (classified as having a micro continental climate due to its distance from the sea) was prophesied yesterday to be +5˚C to -5˚C. However, having stayed below freezing all day, it slithered up to +2˚C at 6 pm before dropping below zero again for the long chilly night. Today it’s projected to reach +3˚C yet at 2 pm it’s still -1˚C.

        The old gold-mining town sits in a basin and when winter high pressure systems park themselves over the South Island, an inversion layer of fog sits in the valley all day: best go climb a mountain, up above the cloud, and enjoy the blue sky sunshine as you ski/board/slide down the snow-covered off-piste slopes…

        https://www.metservice.com/towns-cities/alexandra

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  • #
    pat

    Super industry gets behind nuclear power
    The Australian-18 hours ago
    Energy Policy Institute of Australia executive director Robert Pritchard…
    Australia’s union-backed superannuation industry has made the case for nuclear energy and demolished repeated claims wind and solar are …

    VIDEO: 10min58sec: 18 Jun: SkyNews: ‘Forced penetration’ of renewables ‘destabilising entire power system’
    Executive Director of the Energy Policy Institute of Australia Robert Pritchard told Sky News that ‘forced penetration of renewables is destabilising the entire power system.’
    Mr Pritchard says a ‘systems approach’ needs to be undertaken in order to run a power system, and along with renewables, coal, gas and nuclear have a part to play…
    https://www.skynews.com.au/details/_6049492590001

    Energy Policy Institute
    http://www.energypolicyinstitute.com.au/

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    • #
      Serp

      To judge by what’s happened so far in the UK the nuclear industry is even more riven by financier scoundrels than renewables. Hinkley still hasn’t started and Sizewell is planned on a coast subject to massive erosion and there is no fresh water available for operating it. Australia should stick with coal. Nuclear cannot be an economic proposition in a country this size.

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      • #
        pat

        Serp – I agree.

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      • #
        sophocles

        The water cooled Model T Ford equivalent nuclear reactors, which everyone thinks of for nuclear, are not viable. Look up the LFTR — Liquid Fuel Thorium Reactors.
        These are the modern reactors, the equivalent of the computer controlled fuel-injected modern car.
        They are ideal for Australia.

        They:
        – cost a fraction of the high pressure water-cooled reactors
        – are much safer
              melt-down free
              thermally self-regulating
              reactor stops by dumping fuel into a larger container
        – do not use fuel rods
              no expensive and dangerous fuel rod processing
        – no waste requiring expensive disposal
              anything radioactive can be burnt down to non-radioactive ash even old fuel rods
        – their chemistry prevents bomb-making material

        What’s not to like?
        LFTRs are modern up to date technology not old-fashioned 1950s dangerous stuff.

        One company which is working with this technology:
        https://www.terrestrialenergy.com

        (“Lifter”) reactors are ideal.
        https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YVSmf_qmkbg
        and
        https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N2vzotsvvkw

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  • #

    Another reminder about the “cost” to Australia of any energy resource which is not its own coal…

    The most critical choke points for oil are the Hormuz and Malacca, both presently affected by tensions, the first threatened right now by hot war. The Red Sea straits (Bab-el-Mandab and Suez) come next in importance, and you may have heard of certain tensions involving Somalia, Yemen and other places in the Red Sea region.

    We have massive uranium resources but no nuclear apart from Lucas Heights (presently the subject of a scare). We have huge lithium reserves but all our lithium has to come back to us as imports to be useful. The infrastructure for gas is just not there. The smart/stupid billions (pick your definition of smart and stupid) have run to renewables and even a giant battery, all ineffective as mainstream power and all import dependent. The only new hydro is a potty uphill scheme concocted to give a loathed politician the chance to posture in a fluro vest and hard hat. The less said about wave-gen the better, unless you are a spear-fisher into artificial reefs.

    The favourite wallpaper solution to the created energy crisis is to float in big generators and hope that diesel remains cheap and available. (Feeling lucky, punk?) Our Green Betters are just smart enough to know that imported diesel will be critical for face-saving as the energy cupboard goes bare. We need to unknow it, and in a hurry.

    Domestic coal. Only way. How domestic? If you are living in Sydney, just look west to where the land rises a little. No straits, no wars, not even a border or a boat ride. Thence comes your deliverance.

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    glen Michel

    No, the old “where do you March?”

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  • #
    Bill in Oz

    There is no point in writing further comments until the moderators gets their act together.
    I now have two in moderation for no reason
    And this will probably go there as well.
    I suggest that Jo that you need to sort this issue.

    10

    • #
      AndyG55

      email support AT joannenova.com.au (correct the format first).

      If your post comes up with something about being in moderation, copy the link to your post and add it to the email. (for some reason, it happens to me regularly ;-) )

      This notifies the mods of an issue.

      Remember, they are volunteers, and not always reading every post on the forum.

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    Greebo

    Oh dear. I created a post about 8 hours ago. It was merely a statement with a few links attached. It never appeared. In fact it simply disappeared with no explanation. I thought that this site was at least a little ‘open’.

    No, I cannot recreate my post, but I could try to recreate the sentiment.

    Very disappointed.

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    • #
      sophocles

      To Bill in OZ @ # 28
      To Greebo @ # 29

      You’ve been bitten by The Blog Software bug. You will notice the heading on the first two lines above. If this post is misplaced by the software, you will know which posts this references and answers. You may have wondered why these were being used from time to time. Now you know.

      I have no idea where this is going to go. It’s a reply to Greebo at # 29 so it should be # 29.1
      but it may not go there.

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      • #
        sophocles

        well, bullseye!
        It seems to have something to do with over 100 comments and more than one comment being uploaded at the same time.

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      • #
        Greebo

        OK. Darn it, it was SO IMPORTANT!! Now I need a safe space and a dog to cuddle. How dare this site ignore me?!?!?! Who can I sue????? I AM ENTITLED!!!!!

        /sarc……………

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    theRealUniverse

    In case you want to know what a planet with 97% CO2 atmosphere would be like..
    Heres Mars daily weather, courtesy of the Insight explorer
    https://mars.nasa.gov/insight/weather/

    Date Sol Max. Avg. Min.
    June 23, 2019 204 -25.3° C -69.7° C -104.1° C
    Pressure 775 pascal (7.75 mb!)
    plenty of warming there.

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  • #
    sophocles

    Latest paper from Zharkova is out.
    It’s on open access from Nature for a few days so it might be a good idea to grab yourselves a copy to read it thoroughly. It dives into the relationship between the solar magnetic field and tsi …

    No, CO2 will not affect it at all.

    Title: Oscillations of the Baseline of Solar Magnetic Field and Solar Irradiance on a Millennial Timescale

    The pdf is available from:
    https://www.nature.com/articles/s41598-019-45584-3?bcmt=1

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    • #
      AndyG55

      “However, during the next two grand solar minima, which are expected to occur in 2020–2055 (Modern grand solar minimum lasting for 3 solar cycles) and in 2370–2415 (future grand solar minimum lasting for 4 cycles) (see Fig. 3 in Zharkova et al.6) a decrease of the terrestrial temperature is expected to be similar to those during the Maunder Minimum and, definitely, substantially larger than natural temperature fluctuations shown in the Akasofu’s plot”

      Welcome to the REAL climate emergency..

      And destroying coal fired electricity will only make the situation far worse throughout the whole of the once civilised world.

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    • #
      el gordo

      ‘… further natural increase of the terrestrial temperature by more than 2.5 °C by 2600.’

      That is roughly the temperature equivalent of the Holocene Optimum and as we have already passed our ‘use by date’ I question the hypothesis.

      10

    • #
      Kinky Keith

      Complex, but it seems to be sensibly layed out.

      00

  • #
    el gordo

    With a few minor adjustments and some tweaking the plateau in temperature has come to an end.

    https://www.thegwpf.com/whatever-happened-to-the-global-warming-hiatus/

    10