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Ontario’s government cancels 758 Solar and Wind contracts

 Someone finally found a way to reduce electricity bills with solar and wind contracts

TORONTO — Ontario’s new Progressive Conservative government is cancelling 758 renewable energy contracts, in what it says is an effort to reduce electricity bills in the province.

Energy Minister Greg Rickford said the move will save provincial ratepayers $790 million — a figure industry officials dispute, saying it will just mean job losses for small business.

In a statement Friday, Rickford said the government plans to introduce legislation during its summer sitting that would protect hydro consumers from any costs incurred from the cancellation.

“For 15 years, Ontario families and businesses have been forced to pay inflated hydro prices so the government could spend on unnecessary and expensive energy schemes,” Rickford said. “Those days are over.”

Opponents complained that this would cost jobs. Obviously they forget the Green job multiplier: for every Green job lost 3 – 5 real jobs will be created.

Renewables fans said this will lead to big lawsuits and called it a war on science. What they did not say was how this was an opportunity missed because all these projects would be profitable selling electricity to local businesses.

If only they could have…

New Greens reason: do it because you’re supporting a big Vested Interest

Green Party Leader Mike Schreiner said the cancellation means the province is turning its back on the global renewable industry, which he said is worth billions and is a proven job creator. Schreiner added the decision also sends a number of negative signals about the province to business.

Because billion dollar industries need all the help they can get, right?

Go show the world Ontario! This is how its done.

h/t Pat

 

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149 comments to Ontario’s government cancels 758 Solar and Wind contracts

  • #
    RobK

    Please dear lord, let it be so.

    300

    • #
      Geoff

      As I recall Ontario has a number of windmills not actually connected to a generator but receiving RET style payments like they are magically generating electrical current.

      Fake windmills, symbols of feelings versus doings, or just ways and means of bird removal?

      220

    • #
      Geoff

      Why would anyone use a solar panel in Canada?

      170

      • #
        TdeF

        True, but as all Canadian cities are on the border with the US, the latitude of Toronto is the same as Hobart. Solar does work in midsummer at lunchtime.

        The real question is why does anyone pretend solar is adequate for more than heating swimming pools and electronics with batteries. As even then Australian Climate Commissioner, US chemist Prof Will Steffen implied inadvertently, you would have to cover half of Victoria with solar panels just to match coal output. Then where would we live? What would we do at night?

        Solar is midsummer lunchtime power. Uncaring middle class indulgence based on outright theft from the poor who suffer in winter because they cannot afford electricity or gas.

        440

        • #
          TdeF

          Both are at 43 degrees.

          40

          • #
            Geoff

            ok. I’ll rephrase, Why would anyone use a solar panel in Hobart? It could NEVER pay for itself.

            I had a wind up train engine once. It worked whenever I wanted. Even at night! Why was it not subsidized by a RET? It has many advantages as compared to a solar panel in Hobart or Toronto. It employed lots of labour and was portable. For nearly all of the year it supplied more power than a solar panel would in Toronto or Hobart. There were no emissions. It used no coal. Killed no birds. Made almost no noise. If a politician gave everyone’s children a free toy train people would vote for them.

            251

            • #
              ЯΞ√ΩLUT↑☼N

              Give pollies a rechargeable torch as a message. You know, the “shake weight” kind.. :)

              51

            • #
              TdeF

              Yes, springs, flywheels, rubber bands, lifting weights in the air, pendula, hot water, anything is better than solar at night. As for batteries, they were not even on the radar when the RET started. Now they will save us?

              Like solar and windmills, batteries also have a short use by date. There is no substitute for coal, oil and gas. None cheaper.

              You just have to wonder how Green energy can be more efficient if it employs more people? Coal is free and employs fewer people, how can Green energy be cheaper? There seems to be no end to miracle Green energy. Like the fear of rapidly rising oceans, vanishing ice and doubling of storms, Green energy is busted.

              260

              • #

                Coal is free

                please explain

                49

              • #
                Kinky Keith

                Come on Pauline, give us a break.

                70

              • #
                Greg Cavanagh

                Gee.
                Coal is just as free as the wind, or solar.

                With free wind, you just have to build huge towers with a propeller and generator 200m up in the air, and connect the wires to the grid, and then use a Coal or Gas power station to stabilise the grid. Easy.

                Similar with free sunshine.

                So it is with coal. You just dig it up, transport it via train, mill it and burn it.

                200

              • #

                well Greg, I’m investing in those mines, trains, mills and power stations that sell their services for nothing.

                310

              • #
                manalive

                … I’m investing in those mines, trains, mills and power stations that sell their services for nothing …

                Utility-scale wind and solar require large tracts of valuable land that has to be purchased or leased (Moree solar ‘farm’ 56MW capacity factor 25%, c.p. closed coal Hazelwood 1,600 MW capacity factor 80%) and there are the opportunity costs of it not being utilised more efficiently, after all utility-scale wind and solar power generation wouldn’t exist without government mandates and subsidies.

                160

              • #
            • #
              yarpos

              I think you have the beginnings of a great renewable initative there. As the utlisation rate for solar panels in these places is so low , they should just send panels back and forward between Hobart and Toronto to follow the sun. The virtue would rotate thrpugh both places and the deinstallers/installers/shippers all have a nice little earner.

              100

          • #
            ЯΞ√ΩLUT↑☼N

            I’m sure it was TonyfromOz that mentioned ages ago that heat in an electrical circuit creates resistance – which is true. So the actual output from any solar panel will reduce as rooftop temps climb. I wonder if the manufacturers took that into account when they were rating them.

            But how to cool them to increase efficiency? On a domestic level it might help to have the input from any solar water heater circulate through them first, if installed, but on a larger scale it would become impossible and then what do you do with all this hot water – run it into the input of a coal power station?

            At least until panel material is created that could effectively reflect the IR radiation or increase performance by a large margin it’s a quandary.

            81

            • #
              William

              Geeze!
              Do I have to explain everything?
              You cool them by attaching a refrigeration unit.

              120

            • #
              yarpos

              They rate them against a standard ideal environment. I doubt if any solar panel ever installed on the planet has ever reached it rated capacity. If there are outliers that do just come back in a year , the output will be down some.

              80

          • #
            Phoenix44

            Coal is “free” in exactly the same way wind is “free”. You have to spend money to use the coal and you have to spend money to use the wind. That’s the point.

            130

        • #
          PeterS

          To solve the problem at night they could fill the other half of Victoria with batteries. Needless to say it would make common sense to build a coal fired power station instead.

          180

  • #
    Hivemind

    Winning, one small battle at a time.

    120

  • #
    WXcycles

    Join me Luke, and I’ll complete your training, with our combined strength we can end this destructive conflict and bring order to the galaxy.

    I’ll never join you!

    If you only knew the Power of the Dark Side of the Force …

    Yaa!

    251

    • #
      PeterS

      The Dark Side of the force is the left. Are you advocating joining the left?

      420

      • #
        WXcycles

        You can shove your arrogant political-provocateur routine where the Sun doesn’t shine, ‘PeterS’, I’m here for Jo’s blog, not for your politica-hharanges, and party-political lobbying BS. Keep that devisive garbage to yourself, thanks.

        209

  • #
    • #
      MJSnyder

      A few days ago I drove by southern Alberta’s primary windmill territory – the town of Pincher Creek. There were 3 visible wind farms; one was churning out power at a medium rate – only one turbine was not working of the about 17 I could see. Another farm had 60 turbines, one had broken blades, one was turning and 59 had stopped completely. My understanding is that windmills that are stopped must keep rotating slowly to prevent warping bearings. These were not moving at all. Another small farm of 16 had 15 completely stopped. Seems to me that existing windmills have serious problems.

      200

      • #
        Kinky Keith

        How much is that doggie in the window.

        How much does it cost to decommission a broken worn out Wind turbine.

        Answer; Nothing. You just leave it there for your grandchildren to clean up.

        KK

        130

        • #
          StephenP

          The proponents of green energy are always saying ‘think of your grandchildren’, so now we know what we are leaving them. A big bill to clear up out-of-date windmills, solar panels and batteries.

          121

          • #
            yarpos

            Job creation, they need more to do than the Instagram of the future, blowing up power stations and turning coal mines into lakes.

            40

      • #
        David Maddison

        Windmills can never stop rotating, even in no wind. With no wind they draw power from the grid to keep them slowly rotating to keep the bearings from “Brinelling”.

        52

      • #
        John F. Hultquist

        MJS, You make some assumptions.
        Some projects have contracts to supply a grid when needed. If the utility does not want the energy then the blades do not need to turn.
        Further, the many bearings in a turbine have been improved many ways (design, materials, machining). Still the forces these have on them are considerable and maintenance is required.
        Background reading

        00

        • #
          John F. Hultquist

          Sorry, this is the link I wanted.
          Link I wanted

          00

          • #
            Chad

            John, that link is refering to lubrication and “brinnelling” on blade “Pitch” bearings (also a significant problem) .. But does not mention the main shaft hub bearings which is the area of concern when the blades stop rotating completely.
            Lubrication is not relly the solution , its simple distortion and concentrated mechanical pressure of metel on metal in the bearing when it is stationary.
            Hence why most are never allowed to stand stationary for significant periods.

            40

  • #
    Gordon

    Another look at the same project. Ontario may be cancelling projects but Alberta is not. Hope fully in another years time the NDP is gone.

    https://calgaryherald.com/business/energy/varcoe-alberta-nabs-cheap-renewable-power-price-but-faces-10-million-annual-subsidy

    90

    • #
      Robber

      Premier Rachel Notley said the average 3.7 cents per kilowatt-hour bid by the three companies is the lowest electricity price in Canada and bodes well for future similar auctions.
      Of course it doesn’t say what the backup is when the wind doesn’t blow.
      The official Opposition points out other costs must be factored into the mix, such as the $1.4 billion in payments being made to existing coal facility owners, or the need to back up intermittent renewable power with readily available supply — such as from gas-fired plants — that can start up when the wind isn’t blowing.

      80

  • #
    John Bennett

    I live in Ontario, just down the road from Toronto, where all this is playing out. What amazes me is that there is seemingly very little opposition to these significant changes in provincial (state) energy policy. Our left-leaning public broadcaster/press is relatively even-handed in its coverage, highlighting both the government’s position and that of the solar/wind “industries”, but not particularly taking sides — as opposed to the US media which is so foaming-at-the-mouth opposed to anything Trump does that it has become farce. Comments on the CBC’s website (equivalent of the ABC in Australia) are remarkably realistic about costs/benefits and generally showing significant support for this government’s policies. Certainly, the usual suspects show up, but there is far more educated commentary than I would have expected.

    This new government was sworn in literally two weeks ago, and have already cancelled a carbon cap-and-trade agreement between Ontario and nearby states/provinces — and completely removed the “green” slush fund that had earmarked the hundreds of millions of dollars that would have been taken from consumers’ pockets. The government has also shown that they are willing to introduce legislation that will remove the ability for any affected companies to sue the government.

    This government is serious, and they are moving quickly and decisively to reverse long-standing liberal (left-leaning) policies in a number of areas. It’s a breath of fresh air, and my dinner-party conversation takeaway (from friends who are global warming believers) is: that it hardly appears on their radar. And this is from people that have screamed “Melting glaciers! 97%! 450 ppm!” type things during our debates. I think the government is reading things right: The electorate is tired of this stuff, and this is the first large jurisdiction that is tackling these policies head-on. Next up: A big fight with our federal government who has stated they will impose the carbon tax unilaterally on any province that refuses to do it itself. There’s a federal election in 2019, and Ontario represents 40% of Canadian citizens. Interesting times…

    721

    • #

      What’s also disappointing is that the Greens will flip flop with their arguments as it suits, but the MSM won’t note this hypocrisy no matter what. I wonder if when the presses shut down due to lack of power that they’ll start taking note.

      160

    • #
      Geoffrey Williams

      Great post John, this really encouraging news and Canadians maybe waking up to some kind of energy reality. Wish I could say the same for people here in Australia.
      Regards GeoffW

      190

      • #
        William

        I despair Geoff. Over at the Fairfax collective, there are still idiots who believe that solar and wind is now cheaper than coal. They are silent when I suggest that if that is the case, remove all subsidies and penalties.

        Blithering idiots the lot of them.

        81

    • #
      OriginalSteve

      Happy to see the collapse of the money-wasting green “industry”….

      100

    • #
      Peter

      Here in Quebec (Canada) we have a liberal (center-right) government that is in danger of losing to a somewhat center-right opposition that is less plagued by scandal. The current gang have drunk the kool-aid but the newbies (should they win this fall) are likely to maintain the tendency. :( Justin Trudeau is hard to read because he is “green” but he is also “business”. The carbon tax is just a revenue grab so that makes it okay when the revenue comes from the taxpayer.

      31

  • #
    Sommer

    John, your observations of the media’s handling of this government’s fulfilment of their promises seems true, from what I’ve seen so far. It helps that the previous government was ‘decimated’ and even lost their party status.

    Some are talking about an early Federal election. We’ll see.

    While many people are realizing the truth, education remains the key to helping people understand how this happened to Ontario. How will our academic institutions alter their curriculum in light of this reality?

    170

    • #
      Another Ian

      Sommer

      “What is the similarity between the Ontario Liberals and a Dodge Caravan? 7 seats.”

      From Small Dead Animals

      70

      • #
        Bobl

        When the Labor party was reduced to rump of nine in Queensland the standing joke was that they could hold caucus in a people mover

        80

    • #
      Another Ian

      Re education

      “Much of the energy debate at present is based around the risks associated with energy procurement systems; emissions from burning fossil fuels (FF) and radiation hazards linked to nuclear power. New renewables (wind, solar and wave power) are presented as a risk free alternative to FF and nuclear. However, what is systematically overlooked by renewables advocates are the risks associated for individuals or for society not having access to affordable energy when it is needed”

      http://www.smalldeadanimals.com/index.php/2018/07/15/desperately-seeking-truth-part-1/#comments

      100

      • #
        Sommer

        Professor Mariana Alves-Pereira recently delivered a presentation in Slovenia to a group of professionals on the harm due to low frequency noise and infrasound radiation from industrial wind turbines. Everyone needs to see this.

        20

  • #
    MrGrimNasty

    “…global renewable industry, which he said is worth billions and is a proven job creator.”

    And a proven job destroyer (in multiples of those created) and energy bill raiser.

    191

  • #
    Another Ian

    Jo Not Ontario but news is spreading here

    “FROM ZERO TO $14,000: WHY WIND WON’T WORK

    https://www.heraldsun.com.au/blogs/andrew-bolt/from-zero-to-14000-why-wind-wont-work/news-story/ce16556cd10e74fccce11da5de8cd6f6

    131

    • #
      Greg Cavanagh

      Much more could have been said. But it was Andrew Bolt, so those who need to understand it will refuse to read anything Bolt says.

      It does look like the people around the world understand the problem, shame the politicians are so clueless.

      191

      • #
        OriginalSteve

        This mess couldn’t have got this far unless there had been a coordinated and planned effort between govt, industry and the greens and the Left….

        110

        • #
          Greg Cavanagh

          The greens pushed it hard that’s true. And some politicians have green tendencies like Kevin Rudd, who got the ball rolling in Australia.

          Then their are the CRU guys who were riding “popular opinion”, even if it was their own opinion and the MSM praising their worthiness.

          Then there was that government program created by another unaccountable government agency who saw an opportunity to gain money and power. (IPCC, UN).

          Then there was the clueless physicists and scientist who wanted so hard to believe it was true. (Neil deGrasse Tyson, Bill Nye, Fruit Fly Guy).

          Then there was the ground swell of greens who were triggered.

          Then…..
          And then…
          And still….

          110

    • #
      • #
        el gordo

        Wow, good propaganda, where to start. I might just take it apart bit by bit.

        Banks refuse to finance coal-fired generators unless underwritten by government, then our major energy producers would see a future in them. Initially they are more expensive to build than large-scale renewable plants, but coal plants offer base-load power for half a century and cost less to run.

        A China SOE said they would build a new coal fired power station in Australia for a peppercorn, as a demonstration model, if the Turnbull government would agree.

        There, fixed.

        110

      • #
        Hat Rack

        Interesting definition for “Base Load” in your link Dennis.

        30

      • #
        PeterS

        As usual the ABC gives a biased and false view. For example the so called global rush to renewables is swamped by the real global rush to coal.

        112

        • #
          el gordo

          The whole article is a complete distortion of the truth, vulgar propaganda.

          ‘It is worth remembering that, unlike renewables and gas plants, none of coal-fired generators have been built with private capital. The only way another will ever be built is with yet another massive government subsidy.’

          A real journalist would then say how China would build one for nought just to get their foot in the door.

          80

          • #
            PeterS

            That’s what the left always do. After all they stand for anti-truth.

            51

            • #
              el gordo

              Steady on, its not all one way traffic, Goebbels was a master at it.

              Which is basically the problem here, we need to purge the ABC news room of green slime, then everything would change overnight.

              60

        • #
          yarpos

          Invest in coal then

          00

    • #
      RickWill

      The comments to the McCrann article on SA wind, on balance, are highly supportive – about 20 for to 2 against when I read it. By that sample there is a big swing away from wind and solar. Maybe it is just the readership McCrann attracts.

      Is the Dennis there the same Dennis as here?

      50

  • #
    Kinky Keith

    The intrusion of large self interested pressure groups into our nation’s political life must stop.

    Our taxes have, far too often, included large “redirections” to friends and wellwishers often without our knowledge.

    Time for honest government!

    Brexit.

    Trumpit

    Ontexit.

    AusParisit,

    We are heading in the right direction!

    KK

    100

  • #
    Lionell Griffith

    Is it possible that a “tipping point has been reached? The green madness of the past decades cannot be sustained. It can and will break. The sooner the better. Maybe this is the start of the breaking. It kind of looks like it but one rose does not a summer make no matter how good it smells.

    130

    • #
      Greg Cavanagh

      Agree; the edifice is crumbling. Only the rabid believers and vested interests are screaming for more.

      80

      • #
        PeterS

        The edifice will crumble here only when he ABC admit they were wrong or is shut down. They are the edifice here.

        121

        • #
          Graeme No.3

          An edifice occupied by less people these days. The more they foam at the mouth carry on, the less their support.

          O/T Saw a large van yesterday emblazonned “Save Our ABC”. I presume it had something to do with the by-election but I think it would need to observe the speed limit through town to gain much support.

          50

          • #
            PeterS

            A sure sign that the people have had enough of the bias of the ABC is to see that truck or other ABC vehicles for that matter being chased by angry people. I look forward to that day but I think Australians are still too apathetic for that to happen now.

            50

            • #
              OriginalSteve

              As the whole mess collapses, the ones who are still screaming for subsidies will be easy to identify and mark as hard-leftists/communists to be avoided and politely ignored in future.

              The other side to the hard-core leftists is they would happily advocate collapse of our economy and North-Korea like conditions – what does that say about them then?

              The whole thing has been a very sorry skirmish, but like in the USA, we are seeing the Leftists becoming bolder and more angry as they lose the “war”.

              70

              • #
                PeterS

                Like some wounded animals the hard-core left will eventually become violent and dangerous. It might appear it’s already started in the US some time ago but most people now can see for what it actually is; tantrum fits by brainless twists. The real hard-core leftists have yet to come out in force. If and when they do they will be confronted by equally angry right-wing groups. Then the real danger starts. I hope that doesn’t come to pass for the sake of US citizens.

                62

              • #
                Another Ian

                OS

                “The other side to the hard-core leftists is they would happily advocate collapse of our economy and North-Korea like conditions – what does that say about them then?”

                That they haven’t thought forward to what heir role is in those conditions?

                10

              • #
                Sceptical Sam

                easy to identify and mark as hard-leftists/communists to be avoided and politely ignored in future.

                They must not be politely ignored in any circumstance. They should be hounded and pursued until such time as they repent and apologise to the Australian people for the economic damage they’ve caused.

                They don’t understand “polite”. To them “polite” = weakness.

                20

              • #
                OriginalSteve

                I think if the Left push it to violence, the right wingers who have put up with a lot of agro and blantantly rank foolushness protected by legislation will finally have had enough and exercise righteous anger and go through the Left like a daisy cutter. I think it would be quick and brutal, and decapitate the left politically for multiple generations to come.

                Alternatively the Left could agitate , to try and make the right lash out, but i think the right is far tougher and better organized than the leftists think.

                20

        • #
          DaveR

          The edifice will only crumble in Australia once Turnbull-Bishop-Frydenberg-Pyne are gone. They have too much invested political capital in the status quo, and will not change their views to match the changing views of their electorates.

          50

          • #
            el gordo

            True, the gang of four must be demoted to the back bench in utter disgrace, but what of Morrison and Dutton. They look like clean skins and might join the push to oust the leader if they get what they want, PM and Treasury.

            The situation is volatile and requires an immediate decision by our leader or he risks a counter revolution, spearheaded by the bush people.

            ‘East coast industrial firms could be forced to shut operations as a coming spike in gas prices ratchets up costs, warn analysts.’ Oz

            40

    • #
      Bobl

      It was always breakable because the green policy is so regressive, it takes from the poor who can’t afford to virtue signal and gives to the rich to pay for their virtue signaling. Nothing tangible gets created to hand back to the poor that fund it because the unreliables don’t on the whole ever pay for themselves either in $$, energy or CO2.

      The rich get richer and the poor get the picture.

      They yap about green jobs, every job costs energy the energy consumed by green virtue signalling jobs consumes almost all the green energy produced. If we dumped the virtuous green industries then we actually would produce less CO2.

      It’s unsustainable – in their language, leading me to coin the phrase “Sustainability is totally unsustainable”.

      PS- I’m an EE and in all honesty, there ARE applications for which wind and solar make sense, for example pumping irrigation water where given a big tank or pond it really doesn’t matter much exactly when the water is pumped or to some extent even how much. Running an entire 24×7 society isn’t one of those applications though.

      190

      • #
        Kinky Keith

        Bob

        A really well laid out comment.

        Makes A lot of sense.

        Linking the old saying about the rich and the poor to Renewables has got to grab people’s attention.

        KK

        80

    • #
      PeterS

      Actually the green madness is by and large non existent in much of the rest of the world. Just have a look at the number of coal fired power stations being built as we speak and still much more planned. It’s actually a case of a minority of nations who have committed to the CAGW scam. We as a nation now have to make a choice. Do we drop out and join the majority of nations who are ignoring the green madness in practice, or do we continue with the madness here and destroy our economy? It’s really up to the people to vote accordantly and send the right message if by the next election both major parties are still committed to reducing emissions as per the Paris Agreement. The only way we can do that is to make the ACP hold the balance of power. Let’s hope the LNP does switch course before then to make that outcome unnecessary.

      50

      • #
        ЯΞ√ΩLUT↑☼N

        I keep getting the feeling that Australia is being used as a base for experimenting on the human psyche. How much can people take before they truly revolt?

        Unfortunately, the majority of people in this country are of the opinion “Aww.. What can ya do eh?” when it comes to political and social topics. They seem resigned to let grabbermint run roughshod over them. Hopefully there’s a tipping point there too, and soon.

        70

        • #
          PeterS

          I once thought that too but I think it has more to do with our remoteness and isolation from much of the world. I agree on the apathy part. That’s only part of the story though. Another part is the significant proportion of the population actually prefer socialism. Otherwise why would the ALP and even the Greens continue to receive so much support compared to centre-right groups like ACP and ON? Whether we like it or not we live in a left-wing dominated culture. What other nation allows their national broadcaster funded by the government to be the propaganda machine of the left? Soviet Russia was good at that too until not long ago. China and North korea of course still do. Although the MSM also are pretty much of the left in the Western world at least they are not funded by the government. The blatant bias of our ABC is astonishing yet completely ignored by the so called LNP for one reason; they are scared of doing anything serious about it for fear of a public backlash and hence annihilation at any election. So the real problem is with the people not the government.

          51

          • #
            ЯΞ√ΩLUT↑☼N

            Another part is the significant proportion of the population actually prefer socialism.

            That’s true, and we’re also in the position that being a SJW is faddish for most because they don’t want to be alienated, where their leftist friends are the most rabid and unforgiving. It’s a double-whammy.

            Our socialist friends are largely that way now because of the above and, as you noted, the Leftist propaganda machine is allowed to run rampant. People have become too lazy and prefer to be told, rather than seek facts for themselves.

            The strategy by the socialist Left to “inform” the youngest generation is indoctrination by any standard, because they’re well aware children have little knowledge on which to base any information they receive and simply absorb. Various religions have practiced this for thousands of years, all in the name of control.

            And then the highly deceptive “anti-bullying” campaign in actuality being the vehicle for that “gender fluidity” nonsense to indoctrinate the next generation can’t be higher on the list of criminality.

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            • #
              PeterS

              Indeed the whole education system all the way to Universities are an infested breeding ground of socialist cockroaches teaching students that the West is evil and Marxism is great. Of course not all students fall into that crap and many that do end up waking up to reality when they hit the real world. The problem though as time goes by we still end up with more and more of those socialist cockroaches in the real world as well aided and abetted by the ABC. If it continues the real world will be destroyed too. The only solution is to somehow get rid of those cockroaches at the source, that is within the education system and the ABC. I think it’s already too late to start and would take too long to complete but at least we can try.

              30

            • #
              OriginalSteve

              Correct. Anything more than 2 genders is foolishness. I mean think about it, only a bunch of out of touch fools could try and convince people that one day you can wake up and go all post modern in terms of gender, and the next day want to marry your goat…..

              30

        • #
          DaveR

          Australia is not going to end this anti-capitalist madness until people realise and identify the ongoing, damaging role of the international NGOs here. The Australian arms of Greenpeace and Friends of The Earth take their running orders from Europe and UK.

          Witness the plastic bag ban issue which is about to get a lot worse as people continue to reject the Coles and Woolworths extreme moves. Sales figures are already down, and share prices will follow. Will Wesfarmers and Woolworths’ boards (and state governments) explain to shareholders (voters) how they were lobbied by NGO’s, and how foolishly they caved in?

          This was a campaign planned by Greenpeace and FOE in Europe, and rolled out to the first world countries, despite the fact they knew most of the ocean plastic pollution emanates from Asia and Africa. So we are heavily inconvenienced for a third world problem because of the actions of NGOs in Europe and UK, and virtue signalling from Coles and Woolworths.

          Until average Australians realise how they are being constantly taken for fools, it wont stop.

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        Robdel

        Do not expect any change in policy until the lights go out.

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      • #
        Greg Cavanagh

        There is at the very least, far more mention in the various MSM’s around the world bein critical of green energy, or the costs imposed.

        Canada is turning around, Germany is turning around, England is on the cusp but could go either way yet, America has well and truly turned. Other countries like Russia, India, China are just laughing their heads off at how the western governments cripple themselves.

        Back 12 years ago when Al Gore’s movie was released, there would never have been such open criticism of the green energy. On many blogs yes, but almost 100% of the MSM’s were all for it.

        It’s obviously not a tipping point. It’s a very slow gradual curve. It does look to me to be on the decline now, but I guess everyone will read the signs differently. (I at least picked Trump to be a winner, so I that much of a qualified observer).

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        el gordo

        The tipping point has arrived, according to the Daily Mail:

        Temperatures sunk to 60-year lows across New South Wales on Monday morning

        Parkes and Cowra in state’s west recorded lowest minimum temperatures ever

        A cold snap hit last week on Australia’s east coast and sent mercury plummeting

        Bureau of Meteorology said freezing temperatures will last into middle of week

        Parts of Sydney’s west have shivered through subzero temperatures for days

        Canberra recorded an icy -4.8 degrees on Sunday, after low of -8.5C this week

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        • #

          ‘Mordre wol out, that se we day by day.
          Mordre is so wlatsom and abhomynable…
          Though it abyde a yeer, or two, or thre.
          Mordre wol out, this my conclusioun.’

          (Observeth Chaucer.)

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        • #
          Kinky Keith

          Cessnock was the same as Canberra a couple of nights back: minus 4.8 C.

          Here in Newcastle I feel that this has been one of the coldest winters I’ve experienced here. Just anecdotal but it has been cold.

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      • #
        Phoenix44

        Tipping points obviously do occur and so are obviously not fake news. You are confusing people making forecasts (which they are not very good at doing) with news, which is the reporting of things that have happened.

        Somebody making a forecast is something that has happened. That is therefore news and not fake news. Their forecast may turn out to be wrong (climate change say) but that is a forecast being wrong, not fake news.

        Still, at least you appear to agree that the innumerable tipping points claimed by supporters of AGW are forecasts that will probably turn out to be false.

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        • #
          TdeF

          If so, this tipping point is for global cooling, not warming. Who said tipping points only work one way? If CO2 goes down, as everyone seems to want, we are in big trouble. Less food, colder, more storms, more rain, more floods, cold summers, ice covering everything and New York and most of Europe over 40 degrees North under 2Km of ice, the meditteranean dried out as the rivers stop. See, anyone can do this tipping point nonsense. The last ice age was just 11,700 years ago and had lasted 2,600,000 years.

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        • #

          completely agree Phoenix. There is rarely, if ever, a tipping point and even if true the news media would be the last place to go to detect one. Tipping point is a rhetorical feel good (or bad) blandishment.

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    • #
      yarpos

      If its anything like the 70s, with the end of oil and an imminent Ice Age, it just sort of quietly dissapears and people stop talking about it as life goes on.

      You may have notice some anxiety amongst Schmidt, Mann et al that their one trick pony show isnt anywhere near the top of the general publics mind and even the media are getting weary of beating the drum after 30 years of nothing much happening.

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    PeterS

    Much of the rest of the world have been on the right path for a long time going by the number of coal fired power stations being built. That’s the reason why coal prices are going through the roof – demand is driving it. It’s just a case of the the minority who have gone against that trend of building coal fired power stations. They don’t need to because they already have nuclear and some also have sufficient coal fired power stations, and some are being upgraded and expanded to match demand. The rest have been fooled by the CAGW hoax but they are slowly waking up. Time for the global warming scam to be scrapped by the LNP if they really want to help our nation avoid a crash and burn scenario. We already know the ALP+Greens don’t and in fact want to destroy us, along with roughly half of the voters. Time for Turnbull to announce the change and the reasons for the change, or else be removed forthwith by his own party for the sake of our economy.

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    • #
      Bobl

      I am really surprised that there were enough engineers so blinded by the green dream to make this happen. I do wish pragmatism had won out in this case. Engineers are builders by nature, we will build whatever we are asked to and on the whole engineers aren’t paid to worry about economics. Just whether it meets the specification.

      Any competent engineer knows enough math to be able to check both AGW and renewable energy economics (viability) out for themselves, surprisingly few do.

      I leave this now for them.

      Notable climate scientist James Hansen’s energy balance claims that 99.7% of energy coming in is leaving and that the 0.3% of energy is heating the earth dangerously, and that without man outgoing energy would equal incoming. This means that James Hansen claims the climate system absent man is lossless, a perpetual motion machine and that the only energy sources are solar EMR and the earth’s core, and the only sink is earth EMR,

      Start with the likelihood of the climate being Lossless or even 99.7% lossless (only 0.3% loss). So start tabulating losses and gains and work from there…

      The theory of global warming is completely predicated on this supposed imbalance, if the idea that the climate system is lossless and in radiative balance is wrong then the theory IS WRONG

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        PeterS

        The same thing can be said for scientists. A real scientist would have stood up a long time ago and stated categorically the CAGW thesis if false and a hoax. A few have of course but the silence by the scientists in general has been deafening. As far as I’m concerned those who are silent are as much to blame as the those supporting the CAGW hoax. For evil to win so called good men only need to do nothing and be silent (modified from the more popular quote).

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        yarpos

        They are only human after all and like most people will follow the money. They tend to like building stuff and would probably be happy making their part of the project work really well even if they know they total system is bull excrement.

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  • #
    PeterS

    Abbott states on 2GB that Turnbull now has the green light by the ACCC to reverse the economic vandalism being perpetrated by advocates of renewables. It’s now over to Turnbull, or is he and his ministers going to rubbish Abbott as per usual? Their credibility is now on the line.

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      el gordo

      The ginger group is out on the hustings, this from 2GB.

      ‘Liberal MP Craig Kelly concedes if an election was held this week, there’s no doubt his party would lose.

      “If we had an election on the weekend… Bill Shorten would have won the election and we would have had, in this nation, the same policies of South Australia. The same failed policies, that gave that state the highest (power) prices in the world.”

      The Member for Hughes is calling on his colleagues to highlight their policy differences.

      “At every opportunity, everyone in the Coalition has got to talk about, we are the party that wants to drive down the cost of electricity,” he tells Michael McLaren.

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        PeterS

        I therefore look forward that during the federal election campaign their political differences are made very clear. That would have to include the notice to withdraw from the Paris Agreement and the abolition of all forms of RET schemes.

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      • #
        PeterS

        Also it would mean they have to stop deriding Abbott. Of course for that to happen Turnbull will have to announce he agrees with Abbott. What’s the chance of that happening? If the deriding doesn’t stop and instead turns into praise for Abbott’s views then Turnbull has to be rolled if they want to stop looking like hypocritical and disorganised fools. Voters don’t like hypocritical and disorganised fools.

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        • #
          wal1957

          Turnbull agrees with whatever is politically in his own best interest. This changes from day to day. He is a man of no substance.

          I keep saying that anyone who does some very easy research would have to come to the realisation that unreliables are not the way to go. They are certainly not cheaper, they are certainly unreliable, and they can not provide any degree of base load power.

          The unfortunate truth is that the general populace are in the ‘she will be right camp’.
          Until they have to experience blackouts or ‘demand management’ in practice they are happy to go along with whatever policies the major parties and their ‘experts’ present.

          Like a child, sometimes you have to give them a smack on the backside to remind them that their are consequences to their actions. The ‘smack on the backside’ that the consumers of electricity need is just around the corner, and Turnbulls’ NEG will do nothing to allay that happening.

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          • #
            PeterS

            Excellent and succinct overall description of the current situation in Australia. I have always believed the best way and often the only way for mankind to learn things the proper way is through the hard way. Too bad though we tend to have such short memories we keep forgetting those lessons and end up repeating the same mistakes over and over. History is full of that.

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        PeterS

        Another point. Will the so called ginger group announce the abandonment of any attempt to keep reducing our emissions regardless of whether we stay with the Paris Agreement or not? The Paris Agreement is actually useless since most nations who are party to it are ignoring it, including China, India, Japan and the US. Although Trump has announced he wants to withdraw he can’t do so until November 4, 202O. Regardless, all these nations are now ignoring the Paris Agreement so it’s not really worth the paper it’s written on. So there is no need for Australia to continue and take notice of it given we too can’t official withdraw from it that easily. How about it? Will the ginger group (and Abbott) stop the hypocrisy and announce the cessation of all means and process to reduce our CO2 emissions? That of course would mean the abolition of all RET schemes and subsidies for renewables paid for by the consumers. Once that happens we should see an immediate and significant drop in power prices, and coal fired power stations immediately become more competitive wiping out an hope of more renewables projects going ahead.

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        • #
          el gordo

          ‘Will the ginger group (and Abbott) stop the hypocrisy and announce the cessation of all means and process to reduce our CO2 emissions?’

          Yes, in the fullness of time, but at the moment they are just a bunch of lukewarmers who need scientific guidance on key points.

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          • #
            TdeF

            Yes, they are lawyers, not scientists. Hardly an engineer or scientist in the political game. However they do ask for reasoned scientific advice.

            Tony Abbott did listen thoughtfully to both my points. He does not rattle on like Rudd or Gillard or Turnbull, full of sound and fury signifying nothing. When Abbott speaks, it pays to listen carefully. He does take advice. Kelly less so, but he has his story right. The whole climate change, CO2 thing makes no sense. We Australians are being ripped off by our own governments on behalf of the usual bankers and internationals and the UN/EU.

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  • #
    David Maddison

    How precisely were these contracts cancelled and does compensation have to be paid?

    Could the same thing be done in Australia?

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    • #
      PeterS

      I would think we don’t need to worry about cancelling any contracts. All we need to do is scrap the RET schemes for new projects and stop chasing our proverbial tail to reduce our CO2 emissions. The existing projects will be left to the market to adjust, and hopefully collapse.

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      • #
        Sceptical Sam

        That’s the answer.

        And, legislate for the payment of a bond by all those companies that have installed solar and wind farms to guarantee that the resources are available at the end of their use-by-date to to pull them down, dispose of the contaminants and to reclaim and restore the sites.

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    pat

    Dennis replied at #8.2 with the Ian Verrender ABC article which others have responded to.

    Verender, formerly veteran Fairfax reporter, has form when it comes to such pieces:

    25 Sept 2017: ABC: The truth about soaring power prices: wind and solar not to blame
    By business editor Ian Verrender
    For the past decade or more, we’ve been bombarded with the message from a vocal but powerful minority within Parliament and the broader community that the switch to renewable energy has made Australia uncompetitive, crippled our industry and driven power prices higher.
    The real issue is that, fundamentally, they don’t believe climate change is real or that humans have adversely affected the planet.
    Having spent so long denying science and rejecting the overwhelming body of evidence, they’re now being forced to ignore economics; that renewables have become a cheaper longer term power source…

    Technical innovation around renewable energy generation has seen costs plummet.
    So much so that US investment bank Goldman Sachs — hardly a standard bearer for radical ideology — now argues that, rather than pushing power costs higher, renewable energy is the cheapest form of power generation. More on that later…

    Putting aside arguments about climate change, the main problem with coal-fired electricity is that the numbers no longer stack up.
    It’s too expensive, it has much higher regulatory risks and renewable technology is rapidly advancing…

    Coal is simply a form of stored solar energy. New technology has delivering cleaner, more efficient and cheaper ways to directly harvest solar energy to power our lives.
    Don’t expect that innovation to stop.
    http://www.abc.net.au/news/2017-09-25/the-truth-about-soaring-power-prices/8979860

    11 Sept 2017: ABC: Gas, not coal, the key to fixing Australia’s electricity mess
    By business editor Ian Verrender
    The straight-talking American vainly attempted to use logic, honesty and rational economic thought to explain why he is shifting the company out of coal-fired power generation and towards renewables.
    That has put him at odds with sections of the Federal Government, some in the mining industry and a rump of frothing shock jocks…

    The catalyst for this latest sudden burst of outrage from Canberra was a warning by the Australian Energy Market Operator (AEMO) that east coast and southern Australian states would be facing blackouts this summer and for years ahead.
    Even worse, with the impending closure of AGL’s Liddell power station in five years, AEMO warned of a looming crisis…

    How did we get here?
    The short answer is: our politicians have failed us.
    ***Ideology long ago overtook economics, creating a ready platform for the uninformed to manipulate debate for their own ends…

    ***The problem with renewables is their unreliability…

    Even without a global carbon price, and despite the shambolic attempts to reduce global emissions, renewable energy and storage systems are undercutting coal generators…

    For no matter what the Prime Minister — a man with one of the country’s biggest rooftop solar and battery systems on his house — argues with Andy Vesey on Monday, the AGL boss has been adamant he will not be committing shareholder funds to a dying technology…

    Why? Here is an excerpt from a Goldman Sachs research paper last week…
    Financiers, insurers and the legal industry long ago sniffed the winds of change. Even the big miners have recognised the inevitability of carbon pricing…
    http://www.abc.net.au/news/2017-09-11/gas-not-coal-the-fix-to-australias-soaring-electricity-prices/8890818

    ***Verrender has the ideology, that’s for certain.

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    • #
      PeterS

      The short answer is: our politicians have failed us.

      Indeed but the solution is to stop voting for them given we still live in a democracy. Only an insane person would continue to vote for them expecting a different result if things continue as they are with both major parties. Meanwhile the rest of the world is buying more and more of our coal to fuel their ever increasing numbers of coal fired power stations. Are we stupid or are we stupid?

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      • #
        el gordo

        ‘The short answer is: our politicians have failed us.’

        Incorrect, a corrupt media has failed us.

        ‘Only an insane person would continue to vote for them …’

        I haven’t been professionally diagnosed, but I’ll take your word for it.

        As you know I’ve been Informal for many years, but Andrew Gee (Nat) will get my vote because he’s a ginger man.

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          PeterS

          The MSM was actually far worse in the US and yet Trump won. Too bad it’s not the same here – thanks to the aloof and too often left leaning public. I hope to be proven wrong at the next election and see the ACP hold the balance of power if nothing else changes by then.

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          • #
            el gordo

            We have a different political system, not a Republic, which means we have to rely on a group of politicians to do the hard yards.

            The ACP won’t hold the balance of power on their own, but a lose coalition of independents could if they vote as a block. Not sure if Cory has it in him to be a leader of such a disparate mob, someone able to sway other politicians with eloquence, intelligence and scathing wit.

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  • #
    Gerard

    Ontario was Maurice Strong’s demonstration project. He effectively killed a working power supply and replaced it with unreliables.

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  • #
    pat

    Gordon – comment #3 – posts link to:

    13 Dec 2017 CBC/Canadian Press article: Alberta chooses 3 companies to build 4 wind power projects in auction

    (excerpts)
    ***Premier Rachel Notley said the average 3.7 cents per kilowatt-hour bid by the three companies is the lowest electricity price in Canada and bodes well for future similar auctions…
    Under its agreement with the companies, the province will subsidize the plants using funds from its levy on heavy industrial emitters if the power price falls below the bid price — if it’s higher, the companies are to pay the difference to the province.
    Environment Minister Shannon Phillips refused to estimate how much those subsidies might be and said it depends on what future electricity prices are. She also cautioned against letting potential bidders know how much the government is prepared to spend ahead of future auctions…

    ***however, Jason Kenney, a fan of Ontario’s Doug Ford, may be replacing Premier Rachel Notley soon. most MSM loathe him, of course. read all:

    1 Jul: Alberta Views Mag: The Coal Phase-Out
    Why it’s right and Jason Kenney is wrong
    By Chris Turner
    (Chris Turner’s latest book, The Patch, the story of Alberta’s oilsands, will be published in September)
    “Jason digs coal.”
    That’s Jason as in Kenney, the long-serving Conservative MP for Calgary Midnapore, former federal minister and current leader of Alberta’s Progressive Conservatives. Also, depending on whose prognostications you believe, the unstoppable uniter of Alberta’s right and inevitable next premier of Alberta…

    Jason, who digs coal, does not dig this phase-out. He presumably also does not find it groovy, nor a gas…
    Anyway, the Facebook post contains a video, and in it Jason stands in front of a coal plant near Edmonton on a gloomy winter day. He calls the phase-out a “reckless attack on Alberta’s economy” that unfairly targets “inexpensive, reliable and environmentally efficient modern clean coal technology” and “will do nothing in terms of global greenhouse gas emissions.”

    Kenney’s coal-digging soliloquy echoes the sentiments of the opposition Wildrose. Alberta’s right, then, is already united on this front. They do not want coal phased out. They do not want the carbon tax that similarly aims to reduce greenhouse gas emissions. They are hep to none of that jazz. They think it’s all a big drag (on the economy). I mean they’re against it, daddy-o. Which, in a free and democratic society, is certainly their prerogative.

    But a question arises: If not a coal phase-out, then what? Does Jason, who digs coal, have other ideas about how to reduce emissions and combat climate change…READ ON
    https://albertaviews.ca/the-coal-phase-out/

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    • #
      pat

      14 Jul: Calgary Sun: Rick Bell: Jason Kenney slams elite media deep thinkers
      Like a coach in the locker room after the big win, United Conservative leader Jason Kenney wants to talk about the shellacking his team gave the Notley NDP Thursday night.
      What it says about how voters really feel, what message it sends to the tone-deaf Notley NDP government.
      How the Notley NDP should maybe can the happy-talk shtick and start listening to Albertans instead of telling them what’s good for them.
      You see, in and around Innisfail and up in Fort McMurray, people voted for a new member of the legislature Thursday night…

      It was 2-0 for the UCP by a wide margin. They had been UCP seats but the winning margin was wide.
      Wide, as in a stunning 73 points ahead of the NDP in Innisfail-Sylvan Lake and a hardly-broke-a-sweat 36 points in front of the Dippers in Fort McMurray.
      Uniting two conservative parties into one is doing what it promised to do. Make it an uphill battle for the NDP…

      And this happened despite the NDP government repeating endlessly about how things are looking up while casting the UCP as wack job, knuckle-dragging neanderthals who will hurt Albertans and drive them back to some dark age.
      Now, Kenney is asked about Ontario Premier Doug Ford.
      You know, Doug Ford, a man who got elected despite the utter disgust and dismay of the look-down-their-nose know-it-alls, the self-styled smart set often found pontificating in certain parts of downtown Toronto…

      These people apparently are pointing at Kenney and saying this is what can be expected in Alberta if the UCP leader becomes premier next spring.
      What does Kenney have to say?
      Doug Ford is keeping his election promise, he says…

      Kenney chuckles, like a guy chuckles before he throws a punch. He expects more questions about him and Ford.
      He points to the UCP wins.
      “I think what we saw is a lot of the elite commentary in this province is being rejected by ordinary voters when they get to the polls.”
      Ouch.
      And who are these elite commentators?
      “Folks who think they know better than ordinary voters on what’s good for them.”
      Double ouch.
      He gives an example.

      ***“You could fill a library with all the columns written praising the carbon tax,” he says.
      A carbon tax a solid majority of Albertans still oppose…

      On to the next horror. If Doug Ford doesn’t scare you, how about Donald Trump?
      Kenney is asked about Devin Dreeshen, the newly elected member of the legislature for Innisfail-Sylvan Lake.
      In 2016, Dreeshen wrote in a newspaper about campaigning for Trump.
      Kenney says he’s no fan of Trump and both he and Dreeshen oppose Trump’s tariffs on Canadian steel and aluminum.
      The UCP leader figures it’s helpful to have someone who can get people in the Trump administration on the phone.
      Kenney doesn’t see a problem. A lot of folks in Innisfail don’t seem to be losing sleep. Dreeshen only scored 81.8% of the vote…

      Let us conclude with recent remarks by former PM Stephen Harper.
      “The NDP is finished. They will not beat Jason Kenney. The media is going to go out of their way to bring Jason and the party down,” said Harper.
      Harper adds once the press know the NDP can’t win they’ll push another option, maybe the Alberta Party.
      “That’s the game they’re going to play.”
      Well, in the last game, Kenney won.
      https://calgarysun.com/opinion/columnists/bell-jason-kenney-slams-elite-media-deep-thinkers

      ***Graham Hicks is pinning his hopes on a Jason Kenney win:

      9 Mar: Edmonton Sun: Graham Hicks on Biz: Alberta doesn’t need wind farms
      The technology and know-how are all imported. The global wind-farm company Vestas Wind Systems, headquartered in Denmark, manufactures, assembles, maintains and now operates the Halkirk wind farm on behalf of Capital Power.
      There’s no Canadian technology here, no Canadian manufacturing, no Canadian brains at work. The turbines were built at Vestas’ plant in Colorado…

      When the wind is blowing, wind turbines are fine — operationally, they are now cost-competitive with state-of-the-art coal and gas-fired generating plants.
      When the wind is blowing: Until the battery industry can competitively produce megawatt storage, wind turbines produce no power, nada, nothing, when becalmed.
      In gross generalities, wind power from 37 wind farms currently provide nine pe cent of Alberta’s electricity needs — when the wind blows…

      But when there’s no wind, those rotten, horrible, pollution-spewing, fossil-fuel burning electricity plants must be able to power up to meet the heating, cooling and all other energy needs of Alberta industry and residents.

      Here’s the thing.
      Start with this premise: Who cares what the source of our electricity is — wind, solar, hydro, coal, gas, cow manure — if that source, or mix of sources, meets the HIGHEST OF ENVIRONMENTAL STANDARDS AT THE CHEAPEST OF COSTS!!!
      Canada’s commitment to the 2015 Paris Agreement is to cut our greenhouse-gas emissions by 30 per cent from 2005 levels, by 2030.
      In 2005, about 75 per cent of Alberta’s electricity came from coal plants without current environmental controls.
      Natural gas releases 60 per cent less pollution and greenhouse gases than does untreated coal. And today’s new, state-of-the-art coal-fired electricity plants — like the seven-year-old Keephills 3 power plant — also release 60 per cent less pollution and greenhouse gases than they did in 2005.

      By upgrading technology at modern coal plants, and/or converting coal plants to natural gas, Alberta can more than do its part to meet Canada’s Paris Agreement commitment!
      There’s no need for imported wind turbines, no need for massive solar farms, no need for the billions being spent by the Notley government to act on its ill-conceived notion that all fossil fuels are bad (unless exported elsewhere).

      There’s a desperate need for Alberta not to be so caught up in such environmental fads.
      There’s a desperate need for this province to champion natural gas and cleaned-up coal as practical solutions to global climate change!…
      This is Alberta’s rightful place in the new environmental order — using our expertise, our immense natural resources (there’s enough economically retrievable natural gas under our soil to last for centuries), our own processing, our own manufacturing and our own workers, to champion the greening of coal, natural gas and oil as SOLUTIONS to lowering CO2 emissions world-wide.

      No Alberta utility company publicly so advocates. Their job is to earn a return for shareholders within existing and future environmental regulations and government whim. If the politicians want wind farms, the utility companies will build wind farms — or have foreigners do it for them — as long as increased costs can be passed on to the end-user.

      But in private, off-the-record conversations, most utility executives agree whole-heartedly with the logic of the argument presented above.

      Wind farms are sexy. But Alberta already has an obvious, cheaper, made-in-Alberta solution with a ton of benefits for this province, that nobody in the current provincial, federal or even municipal governments wants to hear.

      ***My only hope is for a Jason Kenney-led change in Alberta’s government in 2019. Kenney has shown himself to be a common-sense leader who understands that Alberta’s carbon-based resources and environmental responsibility are not only compatible, but crucial to the economic well-being of this province.
      https://edmontonsun.com/opinion/columnists/hicks-on-biz-alberta-doesnt-need-wind-farms

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  • #
    ROM

    Ontario, Germany, England, [ Scotland still has to learn its lesson ] Denmark [ off shore turbines are now banned as when the wind blows Denmark has too much power and has to sell it at a pittance .
    When the wind stops blowing they have to buy power from Norway who take the chance to rip their fellow scadanvians right off financially ] Spain and others who were early into renewable energy,

    All of them plus many potential others are looking to cut back renewable energy or at least to give relief from the immense amounts of subsidies that in the past the renewable industries have lobbied for and , paid much out in Brown paper bags to local officials, well documented but so far insulated from legal action by the acceptors of those brown paper bags [ the wind sector in Germany has been described as the most corrupt industry ever seen in Germany ]
    Local resistance is apparently rising rapidly in Germany to turbines being installed anywhere at all in some still small so far, regions.
    A lot of Eastern European nations are sticking with their coal instead of giving open slather to the renewable industry.
    Japan is going back to nuclear and coal after playing with renewables following Fukushima.
    China seems to be abandoing renewables as incapable of doing anything of consequence in supplying the Chinese with plentiful power.
    .

    So to once again quote Winston Churchill;

    Now this is not the end.
    It is not even the beginning of the end.
    But it is, perhaps, the end of the beginning.

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    • #
      PeterS

      Even the best get it wrong sometimes. We go in cycles so each beginning is preceded by an ending, except right at the start of course a long time ago.

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  • #
    Phoenix44

    If you can produce the same amount of stuff with fewer people, that is GOOD. That is us getting richer, not poorer.

    Those people can now go and produce something else, and because we are paying less for say energy, we can afford to buy what they produce.

    That is the entire and only way we get richer.

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  • #
    Another Ian

    There were mutterings about the cost of payouts from replacing the Ontario Hydro board.

    Looks like it was managed

    https://business.financialpost.com/commodities/energy/newsalerthydro-one-board-resigns-ceo-retires-2

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  • #
    Geoffrey Williams

    There are comments above regarding scientists and engineers letting us down by their failure to to act in the way we on this site might expect them to. And although I too share the frustration of their actions, I sense a misunderstanding of the issue. Scientists and engineers are for the greater part simply employees of universities and businesses, and as such are ‘paid to do a job’.
    It is the bussiness men and entrepreneurs who dictate what form our energy production takes. If there is a profit to be made these people will build & provide power stations that run on beeswax candles or windmills driven by super mice. The oportunists are without conscience.
    And so the problem goes to government policy and public perception of the issues. This is what has to change.
    GeoffW

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      yarpos

      very true, I wonder how many with high expectations of engineers and scientists have every stuck their necks out and risked their in taking a stand on principle. It would be very hard for them, especially with the mainstream PC, MSM , political pressures making it look like a matter of opinion rather than a fact based, moral/ethical course of action. Exhibit A Ridd vs JCU

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    ROM

    Somehow this quote seems so very relevant to everything we and many others are discussing today.
    .

    I sell here, Sir, what all the world desires to have—POWER.
    .
    Matthew Boulton

    Friday 22 March 1776.

    About the improved steam engine invented by James Watt and brought into production at Boulton’s manufactory.

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    Hanrahan

    In the absence of a Helsinki Unthreaded I will go off topic.

    This is a critically important meet. I’m wondering if Putin may be susceptible to the play Trump made with NoKo: “See how good it could be if we just stopped fighting.”

    Russia has a lot of nukes but they are old [I assume they can still go "bang"]. In the areas where old no longer cuts it, air supremacy and naval might, they are hopelessly outgunned. Their economy is smaller than Italy’s [that's what I hear] so the chance they can ever catch up is three fifths of five eights of bugger all.

    I don’t think Trump would be doing this if he didn’t hope for a little thawing of what are bad relations. Go Donald!

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    pat

    15 Jul: Daily Caller: Disposal Of Wind Turbines Proving To Be A Major Environmental Concern
    by Jason Hopkins
    Thousands of aging wind turbines will eventually need to be decommissioned, but the disposal of this “green” technology could prove to be a dirty job for environmental regulators…
    Besides a host of problems that occur during a wind turbine’s lifetime — such as intermittent power production and the killing of thousands of large, rare birds — Germany is now dealing with a another pressing issue: What is to be done with a wind turbine once it’s reached the end of its life cycle? There are over 28,000 onshore wind turbines in Germany. More than one-third of these aging turbines will need to be decommissioned by 2023.

    Many in the general public consider wind energy technology to be a completely operable without environmental degradation. However, this is not the case…
    The problem isn’t just on the horizon, but something that has already been plaguing German regulators for years. The country was forced to deal with 54,000 tons of waste from rotor blades in 2014…
    http://dailycaller.com/2018/07/15/wind-turbine-disposal/

    13 Jul: Bloomberg: Drones across Spain are spotting dodgy solar panels and wind turbines
    by Reed Landberg
    Drones the size of manhole covers are helping Spain’s biggest utility to squeeze costs of green electricity, spotting faulty solar panels and wind-turbine blades way ahead of engineers on the ground.
    Iberdrola SA’s €500,000 (RM2.35mil) investment in drone maker Arborea Intellbird SL is not only helping the company to gain a better understanding of how technology is reshaping the energy industry – it’s also demonstrating a new model for venture capital for Europe’s largest utilities…

    They gather infrared images, detecting power-sapping hotspots on solar panels and weak areas on turbine blades in need of maintenance…

    In addition to drones, Iberdrola has backed:
    Stem Inc, a California energy-storage provider that uses artificial intelligence to gauge when customers will need power
    Innowatts Inc, a Houston-based company that’s using smart electric meters to provide demand forecasts for individual households and aggregating the data in a way that utilities like Iberdrola can use to reduce hedging costs…ETC
    https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2018-07-13/drones-backed-by-iberdrola-helping-slash-the-cost-of-green-power

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    pat

    behind paywall:

    15 Jul: UK Telegraph: MoD concerns over turbines on Scottish Power’s radar
    By Jillian Ambrose
    Britain’s largest wind farm developer is hoping to avert conflict with the Ministry of Defence by striking a new deal to develop turbine-friendly radar systems.
    Scottish Power will sign a major agreement with Cambridge-based radar developer Aveillant in a race to save future offshore wind projects worth tens of billions of pounds from an MoD-imposed ban. Military chiefs have warned the wind industry they will oppose projects if their spinning blades interfere with military radar used for surveillance.

    The looming threat has been under discussion behind closed doors for years but the need for action has accelerated due to the rapid development of offshore wind technology which has resulted in larger blades with each project. The next generation of turbine is likely to be double the size of turbines used a decade ago as developers build larger blades in a bid to reduce costs…
    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2018/07/15/mod-concerns-turbines-scottish-powers-radar/

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    pat

    about the writer:
    Fatima Arkin is a freelance journalist specializing in climate change, human rights and sustainable development. She has reported across Asia, Africa, Europe and North America for Foreign Policy, SciDev.net, Maclean’s and many others. She holds a B.A. in international development and history from McGill University and a graduate diploma in journalism from Concordia University, both located in Montreal, Canada.

    inside the GCF collapse:

    10 Jul: Devex: At the UN’s Green Climate Fund, the honeymoon is over
    By Fatima Arkin
    Insiders say that discussion surrounding Oquist’s absence was overblown. GCF co-chairs are meant to serve the entire board, so even if Oquist was not there, the developed country co-chair, Lennart Båge, could have consulted with the developing country board members — which did not happen. However, the fund’s rules of procedure state that the co-chairs are to act in the best interest of the fund — so Båge may well have been waiting for Oquist, who is not expected to attend any board meetings in the foreseeable future, to respond and consult before taking any action…

    At the center of this tangled web is the high-stakes replenishment process. “It appears that some donors are no longer comfortable with the scenario of having a board of equals, where the board still has the authority over the replenishment process in the sense that it has the authority over the policies of the fund,” Zaheer Fakir, the developing country board member for South Africa and a former co-chair of the fund, told Devex.
    “Now [they] want to change from what they view … as dysfunctional and toxic to a functional and toxic fund” that the donors control — “Where developing countries are only interested in their projects, but not worried about the strategic policies of the fund.”
    The fund is in a precarious position and running out of money fast…

    Although frustrating, it is generally accepted in the climate change community that U.S. President Donald Trump will not pay the remaining $2 billion out of the original $3 billion that his predecessor, Barack Obama, pledged to the fund in 2014…

    ***What is less known is that the fund has lost another $1 billion due to the devaluation of the euro and British pound, tied to the anxiety caused by Brexit and a slew of other political risks at the time. For instance, pre-Brexit in 2014, the United Kingdom committed £720 million ($954 million) to GCF — but instead of providing cash, which could have been converted into U.S. dollars when the pound was stronger, the U.K. issued promissory notes, meaning that the U.K. promises to pay the money when it is needed.

    ***Those two factors alone come up to a total loss of roughly $3 billion out of the $10.3 billion that the fund still claims to have. To date, the fund has already committed some $3.7 billion. If it had approved the roughly $1 billion worth of projects at the board meeting last week, and another $1 billion or so at the next meeting in October, it could very easily be left with a budget of less than a billion dollars when heading into the annual U.N. Conference of the Parties, which will be held in Katowice, Poland, this December.

    As a result, many developed countries wanted financial management, as they wanted to stretch the few billion left until 2019 — and even if the replenishment process was initiated now it would take a year. Part of what Bamsey was doing was trying to raise “bridging money” to tie the fund over until then. This may have been the reason that the agenda item on philanthropic organizations suddenly appeared…ETC

    In the midst of this, Bamsey resigned, citing “pressing personal issues” in his resignation letter, which was read aloud during the board meeting. Several people who were in Songdo last week told Devex that, prior to the start of the meeting, board members were not made aware of the personal issues, and did not know about Bamsey’s resignation in advance. Yet the board members appointed Bamsey, so they should be the ones to accept his resignation, not the co-chair, Båge.

    For his part, Båge is rising fast at GCF. Apart from facilitating the fund’s initial resource mobilization about four years ago, there hasn’t been much mention of him at GCF. He wasn’t a board member last year, yet in that short period of time has risen to the position of co-chair. It shouldn’t be lost on anyone that Båge, who has a storied career in Swedish diplomacy, the U.N., and the Swedish International Development Agency, specializes in replenishment. Only time will tell how high he will rise at the fund…

    The fight over replenishment and the future direction of the fund seems unlikely to be resolved any time soon, and the real negotiations will continue behind closed doors…
    https://www.devex.com/news/at-the-un-s-green-climate-fund-the-honeymoon-is-over-93093

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    pat

    weird. Durham Miners Gala is huge – 200,000 miners, unionists:

    16 Jul: UK Times: Bernie Sanders tells Durham miners coal is destroying planet
    by Daniel Sanderson
    It is one of the golden rules observed by political speechwriters everywhere — “know your audience”.
    Bernie Sanders, 76, the veteran American socialist, took an alternative approach on Saturday, using his address to Durham Miners’ Gala to claim coal is destroying the planet.
    In a pre-recorded video message to the event, one of the largest trade union gatherings in Europe, Sanders called on his audience to join together to “take on the fossil fuel industry”, which he said risked “the destruction of our planet as a result of the devastating impact of climate change”.
    The off-message remarks from the Vermont senator, who came second to Hillary Clinton in the race to secure the Democratic nomination for president in 2016, shocked some…

    (excerpts from CarbonBrief) The event, which is in its 134th year, is “is closely associated with coal mining and is seen as a celebration of the northeast’s industrial heritage”.
    One said: “There were a few nervous glances from people in the audience and you could tell they were all thinking: ‘Did he just say that?’ ” Jeremy Corbyn, leader of the UK’s Labour party, also addressed the gala…

    however, I did not hear Sanders single out coal in his short video address below – only “fossil fuels”/climate change:

    16 Jul: DemocraticUnderground: Bernie Sanders Speech at #DurhamMinersGala
    VIDEO: 2min40secs
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2z8QDfCKUAc

    however, hmmmm!

    15 Jul: David Lindsay blog: The Big Meeting, Indeed
    I have entered the Durham Miners’ Gala in some colourful company in my time, but being danced in by the Kurds was a new one even for me…
    If the media ever bothered to report what was always the largest political event of the year, then they would have had a proper scoop yesterday. After the video message from Bernie Sanders, the great Ian Lavery took the opportunity to promise that the next Labour Government would reopen the mines, utilising clean coal technology.

    When Jeremy Corbyn rose to speak, then he did not correct that in even the most jocular terms. Made possible by a real Brexit, and not by Theresa May’s version, that is now the stated policy of the Labour Party: to reverse the defeat of the miners in 1985…
    http://davidaslindsay.blogspot.com/2018/07/the-big-meeting-indeed.html

    poor quality video. listen to first couple of minutes. Lavery mentions Bernie Sanders bringing up the coal industry. says he disagrees with him. will fight til his dying day to bring back coal industry. says it’s not Corbyn’s Labour policy…YET. haven’t listened to the rest of the speech, so don’t know if coal comes up again.

    15 Jul: Youtube: 13mins18secs: Ian Lavery MP @ Durham Miners Gala 14 07 2018
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gsEguvm_JQw

    the communist Morning Star omits the fossil fuel/climate change bit of Sanders’ address, but quotes guy claiming miners are still with Labour despite the destruction of the coal industry!

    15 Jul: MorningStar: Durham Miners’ Gala ’18: Speakers call for Labour solutions to the Tories’ problems
    Around 200,000 people were packed into the Old Elvet racecourse to hear the passionate speeches at the 134th Gala, organised by the Durham Miners’ Association (DMA) with the support of Northern region of the Trade Union Congress.

    ***DMA general secretary Alan Cummings said that, despite the destruction of the deep coal mining industry, Durham miners have continued to unite to “celebrate values” of the labour movement.

    He quoted US Democrat socialist politician Bernie Sanders, who had said: “In these times, workers in America and Britain must unite together to fight for progressive values.
    “We must fight for the needs of working families. We need to build a movement which takes on the economic greed of the billionaire class.
    “We must end austerity for working families and bring a little austerity to the most wealthy corporations in the world.”…

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    Ruairi

    The Greens can no longer deny,
    That the public don’t want to rely,
    On renewable power,
    Paying high rates per hour,
    That can crash a grid’s general supply.

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    TdeF

    “King coal to rule for 20 more years, says independent energy market operator”.

    “In a report commissioned by COAG into the energy and transmission requirements for the country, the Australian Energy Market Operator estimates the replacement cost of the generation capacity of the existing coal-fired network would be between $8 billion and $27bn by the mid-2030s.

    It said extending the operation of the existing fleet of coal-fired generators for as long as the plants were economically viable would be “the least-cost option” for an orderly transition to renewables.”

    Really? All based on what actual proof that we can change CO2 even in Australia, that CO2 is a problem, that any man released CO2 is even in the air? What proof is there that CO2 is ‘pollution’ for carbon dioxide lifeforms? What proof that windmills are a viable replacement? What rationale which says everyone in the world can have our coal and gas but ourselves.

    It is all so far fetched, unbelievable. Shut down the country, manufacturing, agriculture, dams, cars and even get rid of farm animals and all for no actual simple reason. Rivers of our cash, mountains of our coal, shiploads of our gas all going overseas because it is necessary. For whom? Cui bono? Not us.

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      Robber

      This new “Integrated System Plan” from AEMO is going to be an interesting read.
      The AEMO report, to be ­released today by chief executive Audrey Zibelman, addresses recommendations adopted by the government from the Finkel inquiry in 2016 and is ­titled the Integrated System Plan, maps the cost and architecture of transmission and generation needed in the energy market over the next two decades.
      It said extending the operation of the existing fleet of coal-fired generators for as long as the plants were economically viable would be “the least-cost option” for an orderly transition to renewables. It claims the life of coal-fired power to deliver cheaper and reliable baseload power before the transition to a renewable energy future needs to be maintained for as long as possible. It also raises the risk of consumers wearing the transmission cost of connecting renewables to the grid if immediate action is not taken.

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        Robber

        Resources Minister Matt Canavan conceded gas prices would increase further if the nation’s east coast failed to develop additional energy reserves to offset declining volumes from areas including Victoria’s Bass Strait. “If we don’t develop more gas, prices will be higher,” Mr Canavan told The Australian. “To get lower gas prices we need more supply and to do that we need the states to lift their unscientific bans on gas production.”
        So using peaking gas to cover intermittent wind and solar will further increase electricity costs. Meanwhile we leave coal in the ground. Rebuild Hazelwood now. The mine is there, the infrastructure is there, all it needs is new boilers and generators.

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    pattoh

    Gee, I wonder what would happen to the offshore hedge funds invested in the Australian Renewables Gravy Train if they did that here?

    Might make a dent in a Caribbean retirement fund or two……………/sarc.

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    pattoh

    Is there any coal left at Leigh Creek & who owns it now?

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    • #
      Graeme No.3

      pattoh:

      About 170 million tons confirmed, another 200 Mt inferred.
      The mine is being ‘remediated’ to stop any spontaneous combustion- which doesn’t seem to have ever been a problem before.

      Both town and mine now owned by the SA Govt.

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      Chad

      Leigh Creek is a relatively small deposit compared to other known resources in SA alone.
      LC was oiginaly chosen due to its relatively close location to PAugusta etc..
      ..IE less infrastructure required to get the power from ther energy source to where it was needed
      Ironically, infrastructure costs, is also one of the reasons they have built Solar and Wind farms around that area, dispite the fct that it is a far from optimal site for those technologies to access their base energy sources

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    Al in Cranbrook, BC

    Ahh, but it only gets better…

    https://business.financialpost.com/opinion/opinion-trudeaus-carbon-tax-looks-pretty-much-dead-now-that-most-provinces-are-out?video_autoplay=true

    Trudeau and his federal Liberals now have a real war over carbon taxes on their hands…as they head into an election in 2019.

    Jason Kenney’s Conservatives in Alberta, by every indication, will demolish the NDP (socialist) government in 2019.

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    William

    Canada’s British Columbia NDP government will never give up the carbon tax. This government has admitted the tax has gone from being tax neutral to going into general revenue. That is to be totally expected as this government is actually led with the smallest party ever. The Green party, which has 3 seats. The Liberal party has 49 seats and the NDP has 49 seats. The Green and NDP have formed a coalition. Therefore if the NDP want to stay in power they do exactly what the Green party tells them to do.

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