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Just like that: 48% of Australians happy to pull out of Paris

The idea of Pulling out of Paris is barely discussed in Australia. Tony Abbott made it a national discussion for five minutes last week, but apparently that’s all it takes, or even less. After 30 years of non-stop agitprop and years of bipartisan rah, rah, solemn “history in the making” cheer, the truth is Australian’s mostly don’t give a toss. All we had to do was ask them.

It’s a loaded question framesd as “if pulling out could result in lower electricity prices”... Purists may protest that this overstates the result. Not so. If we had any kind of rational national discussion it would be obvious to all that the “could” is a wishy washy misleading and loaded term — seeding the possibility that pulling out might not lower prices. If people knew that no nation on Earth with lots of unreliables also has cheap electricity, even more people would want to abandon Paris.

By more than two to one, people want cheaper power, not Paris points:

Almost two thirds, 63 per cent, of voters also claimed that cheaper power should be governments’ priority with only 24 per cent believing reducing emissions should take precedence.

NewsPoll, Australia out of Paris, July 2018.

NewsPoll, Australia out of Paris, July 2018.

 

In any normal electorate this would be a seismic hot number. Even a quarter of Greens voters are willing to chuck Paris for cheaper power bills. And it’s clearly a dominant issue among One Nation voters. What better way for a rampaging Coalition to steal back centre right voters and win the centre left too? Except they won’t — Turnbull gave up this electoral gift and almost lost the last election, all he had to do was follow Abbott’s lead.

This revealing polling comes from The Australian, under the title:

Coalition’s power pricing policies finally gaining traction with voters

The Minister for Energy and stuff spins on:

Mr Frydenberg told The Australian he believed the country had now “turned the corner” on prices.

“When it comes to energy policy, the Turnbull government has a laser-like focus on reducing power prices,” Mr Frydenberg said. “Everything we do is about putting the consumer first and helping create jobs across the economy. We have now turned the corner on prices, following a series of reforms to network, wholesale and retail energy markets. Wholesale power prices are down about 25 per cent from the same period last year, and retail prices came down on July 1 in Queensland, NSW and South Australia.”

Clearly that ain’t true. If they were putting the consumer first we’d be out of Paris already, and subsidies for unreliable energy would be over. Power prices are only “down” from their Olympic record levels. Lest we forget, decade after decade, $30/MWh.

h/t George

VN:F [1.9.22_1171]
Rating: 9.3/10 (74 votes cast)
Just like that: 48% of Australians happy to pull out of Paris, 9.3 out of 10 based on 74 ratings

96 comments to Just like that: 48% of Australians happy to pull out of Paris

  • #
    Gordon

    Now if Canada would do the same thing!

    120

    • #

      It won’t happen here until the rest of the world has given up; after all, it’s Australia’s responsibility to step up to the plate and show the world how it’s done. Like Socialism, it definitely works, but it’s never been done right. We’re the clever country, doncha know?

      320

      • #
        Glen Michel

        ..and the bleating of sheep can be heard in the distance.

        140

      • #
        Robdel

        I agree. Only when the lights go out will the public wake from their slumber.

        210

      • #
        Rosco

        I’ve always said let’s turn off coal fired power now and see how long it is before we start to see the bodies of the supporters of renewables only strung up from the walls like they do with blasphemers in the Republic of Gilead.

        I reckon a few days and the renewables only push would wither and die.

        50

    • #
      muhammed atta

      Pull out of Paris. Hilton?
      Canada pull out? Not going to happen while the abuser remains PM.

      50

    • #
      Latus Dextro

      New Zealand should definitely do it, get out of the Pars Discord and be rehabilitated from the disease of UN sycophanticism. All of NZ domestic power (60% of total) is generated by hydro, built by the taxpayer, yet since 2003 power prices have doubled whereas the CPI on a basket of groceries went up by 35%. The pan-partisan eco-Marxist globalist ideologues and their friendly mushrooms, the sheeple and MSM in New Zealand must be woken from the social narcosis of SJW addiction. It’s as pointless as it is demeaning.

      80

      • #
        sophocles

        It’s as pointless as it is demeaning.

        With only 0.13% contribution p.a, why are we even thinking of trying to “save the world?” Three or four new coal burning stations somewhere overseas and our pitiful contribution (or savings!) would be totally swamped.

        If we do nothing, who will notice?

        Oh, that’s right, the Minister for Climate would …

        50

  • #

    From the look of this map and what it will do to electricity bills I suggest another poll in a month or two would show even larger numbers wanting out.
    http://www.bom.gov.au/web03/ncc/www/awap/temperature/minanom/week/colour/history/nat/2018071020180716.hres.gif

    210

    • #
      RickWill

      That just confirms the cause of my difficulty “jumping” out of bed the past week or so.

      I often wonder if we could get a class action started against the BoM for nor delivering on its promise of Global Warming. Maybe take on the IPCC as well – only promises, promises!

      100

      • #
        sophocles

        The IPCC has a Get-Out-of-Jail-Free card: all weather trends have to last for 30 years to be called climate. Otherwise, it’s just “ annual “or cyclical” variation in weather” …

        20

    • #
      Jules

      No doubt BOM have ‘tweeked’ the data used for that map so it is likely somewhat colder than indicated.

      70

    • #
      Latus Dextro

      I consistently maintained that once the sheeple felt the dank green fingers deep within their pockets, discomfiture and rebellion would ensure. This is as obvious as the litany of inconvenient truths that gut the globalist pseudo scientific ideological eco-narrative. Their desperation is becoming palpable. I wonder whether they (the globalists and followers of the UN) will precipitate another War, much as their forebears did.

      The Great War resulted in the formation of the League of Nations, the Second World War ensured its demise and led to the United Nations, which has since become politically and mission subverted (UNEP, IPCC, ECOSOC et al.) from its original charter, and appears to be intentionally or unwittingly fulminating yet another conflagration around an intersectional array of socio-political axis that pivot around religious difference, nationalism and globalism, developed and developing, traditional and modernist.

      Those who dismiss, decry and minimise belief may be the first casualties, for example, those that think that the decrees of EDI replace traditional values.
      After that, I think the rest seems fairly obvious.

      30

    • #
      Latus Dextro

      I consistently maintained that once the sheeple felt the dank green fingers deep within their pockets, discomfiture and rebellion would ensure. This is as obvious as the litany of inconvenient truths that gut the globalist pseudo scientific ideological eco-narrative. Their desperation is becoming palpable. I wonder whether they (the globalists and followers of the UN) will precipitate another War, much as their forebears did.

      The Great War resulted in the formation of the League of Nations, the Second World War ensured its demise and led to the United Nations, which has since become politically and mission subverted (UNEP, IPCC, ECOSOC et al.) from its original charter, and appears to be intentionally or unwittingly fulminating yet another conflagration around an intersectional array of socio-political axis that pivot around religious difference, nationalism and globalism, developed and developing, traditional and modernist.

      Those who dismiss, decry and minimise belief may be the first casualties, for example, those that think that the decrees of EDI replace traditional values.
      After that, I think the rest seems inevitably unpleasant if not fairly obvious.

      20

  • #
    TdeF

    There is an air of the surreal with this government. Frydenberg is spinning furiously to cover the days when his windmills are not. The conversation is not if but when all coal stations will be closed, despite the fact that only 5% of the power comes from wind after twenty years of ripoffs in our electricity bills. Hydro in a dry flat country makes no sense when we need the water for agriculture and no one admits Tony Abbott’s figure that the private Turnbull dream will cost us, the public, $12Billion.

    When will this insanity stop like Global Warming as Australia suffers the coldest widespread period in its history. Where are the headlines about the imminent ice age? Where are the scare stories about Dr. Weiss’s (9.00) consistent and very credible prediction of a sudden drop in world temperatures over the next five years? Where are the dams to protect us from the next expected drought in a land where the climate has always been ‘droughts and flooding rains’?

    How can our PM spend $12Billion of our money on his own genius idea, without even costing it? That’s nearly 5 Pink Batts schemes? For what? Perhaps we could suggest a big statue in Canberra instead? It would be far cheaper.

    Where are our new dams, our new power stations, our new factories, our new incomes? As the open cut mine for the world, at least we could do what the Arab oil states did, plan for our own future while our governments are so busy closing the place down and selling it off? Between the ripoff banks, ripoff superannuation pirates and bloody minded governments, we are just bunnies in the headlights. It has to stop. Man controlled CO2 is scientifically impossible and an unbelievably weak excuse to destroy the entire infrastructure of this country. Where are the profits from the mining boom? All siphoned overseas by Turnbull’s Goldmann Sachs and his emission schemes?

    It’s fine though. Everyone can just work for the Public Service, as in South Australia, Tasmania, Queensland and Federally. It is the biggest growing business in a country with booming numbers and rapidly growing wages, a country now even dependent on China to own our ports, process our rubbish and supply more windmills at our expense. Paris is nonsense. France is nuclear. No emissions there.

    521

    • #
      Glen Michel

      I can’t see that more dams would solve the problem, considering the hydro graphical/ hydrological issue; too flat and not enough rain. Politically it won’t be worth the angst and negativity associated.

      51

      • #
        Kinky Keith

        Glen,

        Don’t you drink water.?

        KK

        100

      • #
        Dennis

        The Coalition had a plan to build more dams around Australia and develop the northern country with dams for farm irrigation, extending the Old River Irrigation Area WA through NT and QLD, developing land the CSIRO has identified as potential farmland, just add water.

        To that end the Abbott Government and the QLD Newman LNP Government removed the “wild rivers legislation” that Labor QLD had legislated that prohibited development of the major rivers in the north.

        The water would be harvested from heavy wet season rainfall to fill the dams without several restricting the flow of water out to sea.

        The irrigation farmland developed would be approximately the area of western Europe.

        151

    • #
      Geoff

      Politicians are mostly concerned about staying elected. Josh thinks his electors are concerned about green issues. As the energy minister he is supposed to worry about Australia’s energy. As the environment minister he is supposed to care about Australia’s environment.

      Josh is a fence sitter. The only sure thing about Josh is his paramount desire to get re-elected.

      Beyond that do not expect anything. He believes in nothing and may well become the new leader if the Liberals do not win the election.

      190

      • #
        Sceptical Sam

        Well that just goes to show how Machiavellian Malcolm is, doesn’t it.

        Putting two diametrically opposed government responsibilities under the same minister ensures that you get a fence sitter.

        Why would Malcolm do it? Because he is happy with the existing Labor Party and Green’s policy on the environment. His puppet masters don’t want it to change – they’ve got good crony capital invested there.

        Josh is just the Patsy. The “yes man” in the deal.

        100

        • #
          Geoff

          Yes. Malcolm is a politician and a lawyer. Was it his idea to put Josh on the fence? I doubt it. This is a Lucy move.

          However, Josh agreed to this!

          40

    • #
      Kinky Keith

      I don’t think that you’ve missed anything there TdeF.

      Problem is that the average voter can only process one or two major issues at a time.

      Then they give up and vote laba, groans or the party formerly known as the libnats.

      When propergander has been so successful that politicians can get elected on the basis of saving the Planet from CO2, our only hope might be in starting a new party designed to fix all of the world’s wrongs, not just CO2.

      The FairyDust parti sounds good.

      Our post modern parti guarantees that our special FairyDust, when administered correctly, will make any problem disappear.

      Would it work or have we finally reached that tipping point where we crash and become that second rate, yobbo nation that gave its politicians too much freedom.

      What the libl parti is doing to us Aussi stupes is almost beyond belief, except that there is a precedent in RhoBabwe where everybody has been saved and all are now equal.

      KK

      140

    • #
      sophocles

      to TdeF @ #3:

      How can our PM spend $12Billion of our money on his own genius idea, without even costing it? That’s nearly 5 Pink Batts schemes? For what? Perhaps we could suggest a big statue in Canberra instead? It would be far cheaper.

      [my emphasis]

      But TdeF: that’s the sheer genius of it!

      Go carefully on the statue idea, though, he might want one in every state capital too … starting with SA (?).

      70

  • #
    Ian of Brisbane

    The Paris agreement is an embarrassment to the world and an albatross around our necks. It will guarantee rising temps by allowing China and India to vastly increase emissions.

    157

    • #
      ivan

      I assume you mean the rising temps are the greens getting all worked up by China helping the African and other energy poor nations get reliable coal fired power plants because that is the only way the temp will rise, CO2 just doesn’t do it.

      251

    • #
      Glen Michel

      Some bugger shot the Albatros. Zut Alors!

      40

    • #
      yarpos

      It also allows China and India breathing space to lock in long term supplies while the world dithers with part time power.

      120

    • #
      Latus Dextro

      Lose the rhetoric. Just say how much and by how many degrees, and then put your money on the table.

      10

    • #
      Sceptical Sam

      It will guarantee rising temps by allowing China and India to vastly increase emissions.

      Nope. It won’t you know.

      The science says CO2 has bugger all to do with it.

      20

  • #
    Tom R Hammer

    Let’s all watch as Turnbull and Frydenberg subsidize coal generation now. Only it won’t be called a subsidy. They’ll be creative and call it a tax credit or some such. Either way, Turnbull and Frydenberg won’t be able to give the coal industry too much or the renewable industry will collapse. So we end up with just another mess: same issue, different plot. The renewable industry is going to collapse anyway. It’s just a matter of how much damage can be done in the interim.

    320

    • #
      PeterS

      The quickest way to collapse the renewables industry here is to remove all RET schemes and outlaw the renewable subsidies being paid to the power companies by consumers. Once those changes are implemented the renewables industry will collapse almost overnight. Coal fired power stations will then automatically become the best and most affordable means to produce power here in Australia. Of course not even the LNP will do that since it would be too much of a shock to the system. So the alternative is to reduce those schemes and subsidies gradually over the next couple or so years. At least that will put a complete stop to any new renewables projects, and immediately make it more attractive to keep our existing coal fired power stations running for much longer, including Liddell, which we now presume is Turnbull’s intention. Then when we need more dispatchable and affordable power the only option remaining would be to build new coal fired power stations. Problem solved!

      200

    • #
      Tom R Hammer

      I’m picturing the board of AGL at present with incredibly wide grins. How long before Turnbull comes cap in hand asking how much money is required to keep Liddell operating.

      30

  • #
    James Murphy

    I’m Australian, and I live in Paris. I’m not ready to pull out! Oh…that’s not what you meant…

    Still, I hope someone tears up the Paris agreement, and feeds it to the dog.

    190

  • #

    “When it comes to energy policy, the Turnbull government has a laser-like focus on reducing power prices,” Mr Frydenberg said.

    It little matters if Frydenberg is sincere here. (My thoughts on our present Lib leadership are of a gloomy nature. I’m starting to think that all these quasi-appointees are part of an agenda which has little to do with any national interest. Want to call me a conspiracy theorist? Put on that X Files music and go for it.)

    What matters is that there are people who think that reducing power prices is the main need. Thrift is required. Moving costs to another place is not thrift. Robbing Peter to pay Paul is not thrift. Increasing massively to later reduce partially is not thrift. Massive debt is not thrift. Inventing money in hopes to get repaid in real money is not thrift.

    I don’t want my power bill reduced with laser-like focus. That’s like Kevin Rudd sending out cheques to Australians for…being Australians? Or, after some floods, paying out thousands to rural families who had to stay home for a day…which was a Saturday. Kevin had this laser-like focus on compensating me (though I actually waded through flood that day to get to my weekend job). Now Josh has his laser-like focus on helping me out by taking money from my back pocket (or someone else’s now I’m retired) and shoving it ostentatiously in my top coat pocket…after deductions!

    I want a laser-like focus on ridding our nation of white elephants, crony capitalism and these Trots in suits called globalists. Add ten percent to my power bill if that’s what needed to turn the lasers on the likes of Frydenberg.

    Nope. Don’t do better, Josh. Don’t understand me. Don’t hear my pain. Just go.

    370

    • #
      ivan

      They are part of an agenda – the UN Agenda 21/30. What they are doing is just following the UN play book.

      221

    • #
      Dennis

      Tony Abbott has identified an even worse result than power pricing, he is rightly concerned about the de-industrialisation of Australia resulting from the energy crisis, on top of the other government related pressures making our nation uncompetitive for business, with related loss of employment opportunities.

      280

    • #
      RickWill

      If the laser like focus on price is true then the AEMO ISP is a dead duck. It offers what it determines is the lowest cost path to achieve the RET. Electricity price is not factored in it.

      The modelling is also primitive and there is no possibility that the stated requirements for intermittent generation and storage will meet the gap left by coal closures.

      50

  • #
    Another Ian

    Wait till they find this – some missing costs of wind electricity.

    “The cost of offshore wind power: worse than we thought”

    https://wattsupwiththat.com/2018/07/17/the-cost-of-offshore-wind-power-worse-than-we-thought/

    120

  • #
    Don B

    The graph in the following post can not be shown often enough. More wind and solar equals higher electricity prices.

    http://joannenova.com.au/2018/01/who-would-have-thought-nations-with-more-renewables-have-more-expensive-electricity/

    60

  • #
    el gordo

    It does appear that Josh wants to build new Hele and move away from green ideology.

    ‘AEMO’s Plan for the NEM is an important step towards ensuring our #energy system is based on engineering & economics rather than ideology.’ Josh Frydenberg.

    30

    • #
      Dennis

      Yes, but don’t forget that he is a lawyer.

      But there is hope, maybe, noting Alan Jones of Radio 2GB calling Frydenberg out reminding him that before he started crawling for position in cabinet he did not believe in the climate change hoax agenda.

      130

      • #
        PeterS

        One thing we can be sure of any politician who wants to keep their job – they have to be pragmatic. Given the tide appears to be turning against the renewables industry and more in favour of coal fired power, people like Frydenberg will have to change their tune immediately. He has started to do so but with mixed messages. Hopefully that will change now and he and the rest of the LNP embark on a new campaign to denounce renewables as the road to ruin, and stick that label squarely onto the ALP+Greens to expose the extreme left as anti-Australian and economic vandals, which of course is exactly what they are.

        90

        • #
          el gordo

          This from Jones on 2GB, McCormack is preparing his troops for battle.

          ‘The nation’s independent energy market operator yesterday called for Australia’s fleet of coal-fired power stations to remain in operation for as long as possible.

          ‘Extending the operation of this fleet for as long as they are economically viable represents the “ least-cost option” for the next twenty years, according to the recommendation. It is thought the move would ward off any future price shock, as Australia transitions to a more renewables-involved grid.

          ‘Deputy Prime Minister Michael McCormack says the report speaks a lot of sense.’

          30

          • #
            Dennis

            What is a more renewables involved grid?

            Now at about 5 per cent there is a crisis and world’s highest electricity pricing.

            Driving prices down by adding more renewables?

            80

            • #
              PeterS

              It means they are sitting on the fence. Given it’s a barbed wire fence I do hope they get of it ASAP one way or the other as I for one am sick of the doublespeak.

              60

              • #
                Reed Coray

                Barbed wire is good, but electrified is better.

                50

              • #
                PeterS

                Good point. Better still burn their backsides from a beam coming out of a concentrated solar power station like one of these:
                https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/f/ff/Crescent_Dunes_Solar_December_2014.JPG

                10

              • #
                el gordo

                McCormack is on notice that he’s only keeping the seat warm.

                As leader of the party and Deputy PM he has to straddle the fence for the time being. At the very least we want to reinvigorate Liddell and Hazelwood, and I would like to see a confrontation on this issue in the MSM.

                ‘The report and this kind of sentiment is predicted to flare up debate around AGL’s planned 2022 closure of the Liddell power station. McCormack says government should not “ rush in and nationalise things” when it comes to privately operated assets, also reiterating his technologically agnostic stance.’ 2GB

                10

              • #

                That Crescent Dunes CSP plant that PeterS linked to above.

                It has a Nameplate of 110MW, and they ‘say’ it will have 10 hours of heat diversion. (storage)

                It is ‘hoped’ to have a Capacity Factor of 52%, but at no time in its operation so far has it generated half the Monthly expected power generation total. (that 52% CF)

                Even if it does make that hoped for CF, that’s an equivalent Nameplate of only 56MW

                The cost was just on a Billion Dollars.

                For 56MW.

                So, even with that best case scenario, that means you would need 39 of them to equal the power output of a new USC coal fired power plant, (HELE) (2 X 1200 at 90%) and if that coal fired plant has a lifespan of 50 years, then that doubles the number of those CSP plants.

                So, you’re looking at $USD80 Billion right there.

                Please don’t ever try and tell me a new gen USC will cost that much.

                And I just love the way they compare this to a coal fired plant and call this CSP as a baseload plant. (baseload is their adjective and not my definition)

                Tony.

                (USC = UltraSuperCritical, and CSP = Concentrating Solar Power)

                120

              • #
                bobl

                Tony I might point out that 56MW is less the the power output of just ONE 777 Jet engine. Just one and there are two on each 777 aircraft. So that airport sized CSP plant generates less than half the power of just one jet aircraft sitting on the airport.

                30

            • #
              Annie

              A laser-like beam?

              20

    • #
      RickWill

      ‘AEMO’s Plan for the NEM is an important step towards ensuring our #energy system is based on engineering & economics rather than ideology.’ Josh Frydenberg.

      The ISP is based entirely on ideology. It makes constant reference to Climate Change. It embodies the federal RET and the more aggressive Labor State RETs of 50%. Its starting point is Finkel’s trifecta with target of 90% ambient generation by 2050. Some examples:

      This approach is supported by the AEMC, whose review of extreme weather said that “planning processes should consider the impact of long-term trends in the climate”97. Climate change risk has been recognised by the Australian Prudential Regulation Authority (APRA) as “foreseeable, material and actionable now”98. Protecting the integrity of energy infrastructure against damage from extreme weather and climate, and future climate change, was also a key recommendation of the Finkel Review99. Similarly, Australia’s Commonwealth Home Affairs Department has recognised the increased national cost of weather- and climate-related natural disasters in establishing the National Resilience Taskforce to improve Australia’s resilience through disaster risk reduction and mitigation reforms100.

      The Finkel Review’s planning recommendations were agreed to by COAG energy ministers and this, as the first ISP, is an important step in enhancing system planning and fulfils specific recommendations in the Blueprint.

      Electricity price and engineering principles are not a consideration in the ISP.

      It is quite clear that Climate Change needs to be buried before it will go away – Does ACCC trump AEMO on electricity prices?

      I believe that the ACCC pointing out the regressive nature of the RET driven solar cross-subsidies is a powerful force in political persuasion. That message needs to be constantly hammered.

      50

  • #
    yarpos

    That survey graph looks odd , over a third of Greens in favour or undecided on pulling out of the Paris Agreement. Sounds like people playing games with their affiliation, you would think it would be an article of faith for the Greens to comply with Paris or destroy the country trying.

    80

  • #
    PeterS

    Whether we pull out or not is irrelevant. Most nations, including China, Japan and US are party to the Paris Agreement. Let’s just do what they are doing – ignore it and get on with the business of providing affordable and reliable base load power using at least one of the two only means they are using – coal and/or nuclear. In our case of course it’s too much to ask to go nuclear for various stupid reasons so leaving that side for now the only option left is coal. So let’s get with the program, unless Turnbull and Shorten have another agenda and want to continue wrecking our economy. I look forward to the NEG to provide exactly that opportunity. Then Turnbull can go to the next election offering a clear distinction to what the ALP+Greens will be offering. The voters will then have their say and if they are still foolish enough to prefer and hand over the government to the ALP+Greens then they deserve to suffer higher power prices and outages galore. It will be unfortunate that the rest of us have to suffer along with them.

    110

    • #
      el gordo

      ‘Then Turnbull can go to the next election offering a clear distinction to what the ALP+Greens will be offering.’

      True, at that point our democracy would be robust again.

      30

      • #
        PeterS

        I think the public will pick the right path as long as Turnbull and his mates don’t stuff it up. He now has an almost perfect opportunity to win the next election by a landslide, assuming of course the public as a whole are not brain dead, which I don’t believe they are. They may be gullible fools but they are not on the whole completely stupid. Let’s hope Turnbull is aware of this golden opportunity. He could destroy the Greens and weaken the ALP with just the right sort of energy policy and direction. Whether he’s astute enough to realize all this I’m not sure.

        90

        • #
          Dennis

          Former Labor Prime Minister Keating was asked by at the time Labor Prime Minister Rudd to describe Opposition Leader Turnbull.

          Keating said Turnbull was intelligent, fearless but lacking in judgement. A while later Turnbull was replaced as Opposition Leader by Abbott MP who was drafted to the leadership when Liberal MPs were questioning Turnbull’s judgement when he backed the emissions trading scheme proposal Prime Minister Rudd put forward, and other climate change agenda.

          Reading the on-line background of Turnbull I believe that he is too busy plotting how to keep his own position and too self centred to sway from the Paris Agreement based and other UN agendas.

          Then again, maybe his colleagues have an arm twisting plan?

          50

        • #
          el gordo

          ‘….assuming of course the public as a whole are not brain dead ….’

          They have been severely brainwashed, but fortunately the hip pocket nerve has been a catalyst to jolt the ordinary folk out of their malaise. Self interest instead of international virtue signalling is on the agenda.

          To get out of the Paris Agreement we would need a debate in the MSM, with climate change front and centre. This is someway off, our politicians are mostly ignorant of the science.

          Which is why I nominate Cory Bernardi to lead the charge to reeducate the masses on energy and climate, after he has had a chat with our Blue team.

          20

          • #
            Another Ian

            el gordo

            Forget the arm twisting – go for the direct pressure squeeze

            20

            • #
              el gordo

              Everything takes time, mustn’t frighten the chooks with CO2 now at 408.85 ppm.

              We need to articulate why we think new coal fired power stations are good for our grandchildren.

              10

  • #
    beowulf

    You really expect the Turnbull leopard to change his green spots? Come on Peter. That would be an admission that he was a fool all along. His mega-ego would never allow it. He’d rather see the ship sink than change course.

    100

    • #
      Dennis

      And as the ship sinks he would chain his political enemies down in the hold.

      20

    • #
      PeterS

      I’ve got my rosy coloured glasses on today :-)
      Still I am sniffing some good vibes from the LNP as I believe they are now convinced they will lose the next election outright so they need to change tact. It’s also very likely they will sit on the fence and keep promoting the emission reductions saga while at the same time at least keep a lid on power prices by somehow preventing the closure of any more coal fired power stations, including Liddell. If it’s all just smoke and mirrors as per usual then we are stuffed no matter who wins the next election.

      50

    • #
      el gordo

      Talcum has noticed that a quarter of Greens want to pull out of the Paris Agreement, to bring down power bills significantly. He could plead ignorance and blame the scientists and media for producing a catastrophic effect of industrial CO2 on temperatures.

      That is unlikely to happen.

      10

    • #
      wal1957

      Turnbull is, and will always be a fool. As for a leopard changing his spots… how many times has this idiot changed his mind? I would hate to be running a business in this country. Turnbull doesn’t know what Turnbull stands for, so how is anybody else supposed to know, or have any form of trust in this ignoramus?

      The really sad part of this saga is that even if any changes are implemented for the better, Billy Shortone will derail them after the next election. I don’t believe that the ‘Turnbull Liberal Party’ has any chance at the next election. I know a lot of people who whilst being staunch Liberal supporters will be voting for alternative ‘conservative’ parties at the next election.

      Australia once was the ‘lucky country’…God help us!

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        PeterS

        I’m afraid I just took off my rose coloured glasses and misplaced them. I tend to think you are right. There is one last hope though. At the next election if enough voters are awake and astute enough they could shock the political scene. Of course it won’t be a Trump style victory by any party since we don’t have anyone even remotely like him here in politics – he wouldn’t survive one week here given the nation’s bias towards the left and socialism. However, what would be nice is if neither major party received enough seats to form a majority government, and the ACP and ON gained enough support to form an alliance with the LNP and steer us away from the renewables madness. I realise it’s just wishful thinking but hey I now have my blue coloured glasses on. The sad part about all this is you are on the right track about the future. At some stage the ALP+Greens will form government, if not the next election then another, and that really spells the end of Australia as we know it, whether we like it or not. Look on the bright side – once we fall and China takes over we will have all the coal and nuclear power stations we need in no time at all. Who knows, perhaps by then they can power their own country and other Asian nations from here using advanced cabling technologies to save them shipping coal and uranium over there.

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          wal1957

          Peter, I would like to think that you are correct re the coming election. Unfortunately however, I think that Shortone is a shoe-in. Even tho he is one of the most loathed opposition leaders in history, he is up against the rambling Turnbull.

          My hope is that over the course of the next 2 elections that a true conservative party does become a force within Australian politics. One way or another, by then Australia will have experienced the results of the pollies folly in their actions on gerbil warming. If Turnbull wins this election, it will be a slower journey, but the destination will still be arrived at. With Shortone we will arrive much earlier and have a harder touchdown.

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          el gordo

          The by-elections coming up should give us a clearer picture, now that the battle lines are clearly drawn.

          The Carmichael coal mine is worth watching, nobody will lend Adani money to build the rail link to the coast. Brilliant strategy by Beijing to out manoeuvre Indian expansion.

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        beowulf

        Wal
        Agreed that Turnbull has 2 bob each way on most issues and if he has to do a backflip he just passes the buck and throws a colleague under the bus to do it, but on the subject of all things green he has never deviated from his ingrained dogma. When he makes his thought bubbles reality is when we need to panic eg. Snowy II and the NEG.

        Remember that he said he would never lead a party that didn’t have a price on carbon (or words to that effect) and later threatened to bring down the government and take his bat and ball home if there was another challenge to him.

        These are the words of a man ego-driven, subject to no logical argument. He has fixed ideas of where he wants Australia to head regardless of reality intervening to show the errors of his ways. Don’t expect him to suddenly abandon his antipathy to “carbon” or his banker’s nose for a quick buck to be made from windmills and trading carbon indulgences.

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    Reed Coray

    Before I retired there used to be a saying in my industry: “When you’re losing, declare victory and move on.” Somebody please explain why Frydenberg isn’t personification of the saying.

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    • #
      PeterS

      Another way of saying it is if someone arrogantly states they have won a discussion after much obfuscation, they typically have lost it.

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  • #
    RickWill

    Here is another example of an Australian manufacturer going down the toilet because of high power prices:
    https://www.smh.com.au/business/companies/sorbent-makers-shares-go-down-the-toilet-20160722-gqblpr.html

    Next thing is that we will be asked to conserve toilet paper to help our balance of trade because we will be importing it.

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  • #
    Phoenix44

    Really illustrates how Left-wing parties no longer care about reducing prices for the poor and trying to make them less poor, and are much more concerned about “big issues” that they can feel good about.

    Subsidies to businesses paid for by the poor – who would have thought that was what being left-wing would become?

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  • #
    John Watt

    Coalition’s power pricing policy? Coalition’s energy illiteracy! A pricing policy requires a knowledge of cost of supply and a knowledge of the market you are selling into, and, ideally some knowledge of the technology involved. If these political dudes were applying for the pricing policy job they wouldn’t get an interview.
    We need to get the whole energy question out of the hands of unqualified political “experts”. Unfortunately the Australian energy industry has been over run by “chancers” gobbling the subsidies. Where to next?

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    RGB

    Electricity prices sure did drop for me this month in SA. A WHOLE 1%! I am so relieved. No really! But what about the other 137% increase since 2005????????

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    Scott

    If you need anymore proof that this nonsense should stop – take a visit to any large shopping complex in Melbourne at this time of the year and take note of how many people of retirement age are just sitting there filling in the hours, so they don’t have to go home to a house they can’t afford to heat. We have lost our way.

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  • #
    cedarhill

    Nations should follow the US lead since the US is still reducing CO2 after leaving the Paris accords.

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  • #
    Dave in the States

    This goes to show just how fragile the public’s faulty perception of CAGW/renewables issues really are, and why the MSM and government bureaucracy are so desperately trying to control the messaging on such topics.

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  • #
    Amadeus

    Oh I see, Mr Friedanegg,

    Coalition’s power pricing policies finally gaining traction with voters.

    Tell me another one!!! Spin vs reality….not one cent reduction in our electricity account!!
    Mr Friedanegg, please explain?
    As an amateur, I note that the policy acceptance is more important than any actual reduction in costs. Only a bureaucrat and a politician would see virtue where there is none…

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  • #
    M Allinson

    The main question from this is: has any nation in history ever recovered from a 38% cretin load?

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  • #
    Ceetee

    Go you good things Aussie! Something really staunch and individual about you muck and about types youse are!!. Maybe I should be over there away from the neo marxist mayors and the bleating braying constant left wing drone here in NZ.

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  • #
    Cookster

    When will Australian conservatives get the message? They already have Jo. The problem is the Prime Minister isn’t conservative. He has morphed the Liberal party into Labor light.

    00