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Energy Crisis: NSW can’t keep coal plants, or aluminium smelters running, prices hit $14,000MW/hr

It’s not even summer.

NSW has been hit by clouds and a lack of reliable coal power. Prices are soaring.  In NSW the Tomago Aluminium Smelter consumes about 10% of the state’s electricity. It has been forced to switch off three times in the last week because there was not enough reserve power on the grid.

The boss of Tomago, Mr Howell, said Australia is “at a crisis point with our energy system”. 

“This is not summer with extreme demand. This is the likely future of our energy grid as once reliable baseload generators exit the [NEM] and are mostly replaced with intermittent wind and solar projects with no practical storage to speak of,” Mr Howell said. “Our energy debate should not advocate either renewables or conventional thermal,” he said.

– SMH, Peter Hannam,

Aluminum pot lines can only sit idle for a few hours before they cool too far and the damage becomes permanent and wildly expensive as the aluminum becomes solid.

Renewables-fans blame the emergency on the unreliability of coal

See @TheAustraliaInstitute. Suddenly Australia is the only western nation on Earth with coal resources that can’t maintain its coal plants. We did it for decades, but now the economics for coal is pathetically inadequate — thanks to government interference destroying the free market.  So coal infrastructure, worth billions in any other nation, is being run into the ground.

Tomago said it had been forced to halt each of three potlines this week – one on Tuesday and two on Thursday – because of a lack of reserve across the grid serving eastern states.

Matt Howell, Tomago’s chief executive, told Fairfax Media on Friday lunchtime, the company was concerned it may face another curtailment of operations later in the day. Just before 6.30 pm, he said the company had probably “dodged a bullet”, with the demand peak over.

AEMO said this was partly due to heavier than expected cloud cover which reduced the output from solar rooftop generation, resulting in increased demand from the grid.

Dang Clouds

On Friday, solar power had one of its worst days so far this year hitting a peak of just 2,000MW.  The normal June solar PV output of the entire east coast 40,000km network is over 3,500MW, so fully 1,500MW was missing.

Dang Wind

Wind saved the day on Thursday but was also bombing by late Friday.

Oh the vagaries of smelting aluminum via the sun and wind.

Oh the cost!

Those spikes are $14,000 per megawatt hour bursts, which dwarfs everything else. The average price in NSW was $220/MWh on Friday.

NSW electricity cost,graph, NEM, AEMO, June 2018

NSW electricity cost,graph, NEM, AEMO, June 2018

h/t David-of-Cooyal-in-Oz (Dave B) and Ian.

UPDATE: TonyFromOz says he has not seen anything like this. See his comment and the graph below.

 

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Rating: 9.4/10 (68 votes cast)
Energy Crisis: NSW can't keep coal plants, or aluminium smelters running, prices hit $14,000MW/hr, 9.4 out of 10 based on 68 ratings

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110 comments to Energy Crisis: NSW can’t keep coal plants, or aluminium smelters running, prices hit $14,000MW/hr

  • #
    Tom R Hammer

    Hypothesizing on this outcome was fun. Now that reality has hit, with much worse to come, and an AGL holding all the trump cards on the poker table, I can only hope that politicians, gullible public servants, idealistic media leeches and rabid environmentalists get held to account.

    470

    • #
      Hanrahan

      There are no trump cards in poker. :)

      104

    • #
      NB

      Well, these people are destroying our national wealth. That would be the plan if they were socialists and they wanted to destroy a capitalist society, I guess.

      230

    • #
      Roger

      Actually, governments hold the trump card. All they need to do is cancel the rules that require renewable energy to be used first, cancel all subsidies and reimpose market forces.

      170

    • #
      Ian

      More realistically maybe AGL and Abbot will be held to account. The former for greed and the latter for stupidity in submitting the current RET and emissions target to the Paris Agreement in July 2015

      16

    • #
      Stephen Davies

      As a long term Canberra resident I would point out that public servants are never held to account. Never have, never will be.

      In my time here I have worked with one, and only one, public servant that repeatedly used the phrase ‘what is best for the Commonwealth’.

      30

  • #
    Graeme No.3

    It looks like the electricity supply will become a critical item before the next Federal election, indeed possibly even before the Victorian State election in November. Both major parties are going to look very foolish.

    430

    • #
      yarpos

      I contacted the Libs in Victoria tofind out what their Energy policy was. They said they were still working on it and a policy announcement was imminent about a month ago. They asked about my interest and I told them I was a single issue voter.

      400

      • #
        Hanrahan

        Me and thee could tell them how to win the next election, and we wouldn’t need a month to work it out.

        Why the bluddyell are conservatives scared of upsetting the greens? The feeling ain’t mutual.

        300

        • #
          shannon

          “Why the bluddyell are conservatives scared of upsetting the greens? The feeling ain’t mutual”..

          I dont think its got anything to do with the Greens….
          More like Turnbull and his money connections wouldn’t make those promised $$$$$$$ millions.
          Mind you the Labor Party are no different….Union connections have their hands out too !
          Trouble is, both, dont give a hoot, about bleeding the ordinary citizen dry.

          242

          • #
            el gordo

            AGL is the ugly face of old style capitalism, shareholders have priority over consumers.

            102

            • #
              Kinky Keith

              Gordo

              That ugliness you speak of has nothing to do with politics: it’s just Ugliness, pure and simple.

              Many public authority rorts have been carried out by the “people” as represented by the “mooment” and equally many by the “upper class”, white collar side.

              We just need to enforce honesty.

              KK

              80

            • #
              CameronH

              This has nothing to do with Capitalism, old or otherwise. The government has set up a system where the consumer has no say and are forced to take unreliable and expensive energy. AGL, like any business, will seek to make the most profit they can and in the current situation they are doing exactly what the intent of the renewables program was. This is to make bump up the price of electricity by government mandate to make coal fired power uneconomical and force people to use renewables.

              If all of the subsidies and mandated where to disappear tomorrow and the consumer had a choice AGL would have to keep their coal fired plant and ramp up their use.

              50

        • #
          Ian

          I think it is largely because the Conservatives are so stuck in the past it takes them longer than it takes the Greens who aren’t to work out what’s gong on in the present

          05

          • #
            Kinky Keith

            The whole purpose of modern government is to manipulate things so that your (as in the politician’s) family is advantaged.

            The rest of community can take a running jump.

            Insider trading is illegal in the sharemarket; why wouldn’t similar considerations apply to government?

            KK

            50

      • #
        RickWill

        I responded to a request from the local federal member on what I regarded as the issues. It was just a letter drop with some boxes to tick and comments to add if needed. I offered to show our local member why the RET was disastrous for Australia but did not get any response. I thin the Libs will continue to support the RET till its due date in 2030. A lot of pain still to come.

        230

  • #
    yarpos

    The only surprising thing is that the politicians, media and renewable fanboys present themselves as being surprised. Anybody with half a brain and 15 minutes to think our energy direction through, even at a very basic common sense level, would only be surprised that it has taken so long for the excrement to start hitting fan.

    Of course Palacechook in QLD will stick to the 50% target because it will be different when they do it.

    310

    • #
      Sceptical Sam

      If they say they are surprised by this, they are admitting to their incompetence.

      While we already know that, it’s a surprise to them.

      260

      • #
        Graeme No.3

        Remember Dr. Finkel stated that the cost of electricity from wind at $92 per MWh in 2020, dropping to $79 in 2030, Large scale solar PV (with storage) at $138 down to $87 in 2030, and solar thermal as $172 in 2020 and $109 in 2030.

        And there is the problems of intermittency, which optimists say that storage will solve the problem. There are only 2 storage options available at this time, batteries or pumped hydro.
        Finkel seems to think that storage will drop 45% in cost by 2030, but even so ALL STORAGE INCREASES the cost. And Snowy 2 or other schemes are unlikely to be ready by 2025. Despite talk of ‘miracle’ batteries they are very unlikely to add less than the $40 per MWh charge estimated for Snowy 2.
        The alternative under the National Energy Guaranty is that intermittent storage will be ‘balanced’ by fast acting gas fired OCGTs, but this also ADDS COST as it is more expensive than wind and solar at $123 and expected to increase in cost in the future.

        Everyone of the “renewables” will cost more than HELE coal in 2020 (and beyond). Therefore to claim that replacing cheaper coal fired generation with more expensive sources can ONLY lead to higher electricity prices. Those politicians claiming that more renewables will lead to lower prices are either DILLS or LIARS.
        So increasing the amount of renewables MUST increase the cost of electricity in Australia, not just above existing reliable coal fired generation but any future HELE type stations, such as 60 countries are looking to build. In return we will get more blackouts.

        The hope of lower electricity prices held out by the gullible believers in GlobalWarming© must rely on the operators of renewable schemes selling at less than cost on their way to bankruptcy.

        The National Energy GUARANTEE is only worth the paper it is written on, in its case toilet paper, already used.

        351

  • #
    Geoffrey Williams

    Unfortunately I cannot see the funny side of this renwables farce; the whole business makes me extremely angry. Our economy and our way life is being completely white anted by people whoose only agenda is climate warming ideology at any cost. The situation continues from bad to worst! Until Australians wake up to what is occurring then we will continue down this path to economic destruction.
    Regards GeoffW

    371

  • #
    Dennis

    They don’t care what we think, the Paris Agreement reduction of emissions is the government’s focus and they have their legal eyes focused after ratifying the Agreement and exposing Australia to hefty penalties if the targets are not achieved.

    Apparently it doesn’t occur to those lawyers that there was no good reason to ratify the Agreement, the Howard Government declined when they signed the Kyoto Agreement and Australia was one of the few nations that achieved the emissions reductions targets at that time.

    What a useless bunch of educated fools.

    261

    • #
      Kinky Keith

      Some get off on the power of controlling others while others, like our dear President get off on the the money to be sequestered while manipulating them.

      KK

      90

  • #

    One big reason Europeans can afford to indulge Green Blob is the interconnected nature of the European grid. They tip far too much dough into Blob but someone is usually burning something or nuking out some megawatts somewhere. Oil tycoon Norway sells its hydrocarbons while keeping its domestic power green and crunchy…but only because the country’s compact and shaped for hydro. (And in a drought or price dump they can still buy power from any old source nearby.)

    Dopey skippies think we’re being terribly European and Parisian…but we’re just dopey skips. We’re on our own. If Palace Chook goes full-Blob that’s the end. And to complete the global joke we fund all this green piety by selling coal to Asia.

    191

  • #
    Rob Leviston

    These RE people cannot see the wood for the trees! They are so hung up on solar and wind, that it is virtually impossible for them to consider anything else! They seem to care less that their favored power sources are totally unreliable and disruptive, but to try and prove a point, they want to keep putting on BandAids!!
    We need serious, reliable power, 24/7/365! We know our coal fleet is ageing. We know we need to replace it/update it.
    So, if the answer is not ‘blowing in the wind’, or shining down from heaven above, where is it? Flowing down from the mountains? For some of it, maybe, but forget about pumped hydro, or batteries for storage! That is a fool’s errand!
    So, what is the serious answer, from what we know today? What do we have, ‘at hand’? Coal, Gas, Uranium.
    Ok, coal, build some HELE plants! They are more efficient, and produce less of that dirty stuff, C02, (sarc) than the current fleet.
    Gas, probably have enough ATM, for peak production and smoothing.
    And, the one that sends the Greens apoplectic, nuclear! Small footprint, reliable power, no CO2, what’s not to like?
    We are an energy resource rich country.
    There should be NO REASON WHATSOEVER, for Australia to be going through power doldrums!

    260

    • #
      Graeme No.3

      Rob:

      It is the old complaint that socialism would work if it is tried hard enough. The Gulag and 25 million dead under Stalin apparently wasn’t hard enough, nor was the 60 million dead under Mao, or the third of the population gone under Pol Pot.
      So if sun and wind don’t work, then add batteries. When that turns out to be more expensive, and probably unreliable too, then the hydrogen economy will be the next demand.
      Even in the eighteenth century people switched from sun and wind if there was an option (steam engines, horses on turntables, tidal mills), so the new Greenies’ object is BACK to the MIDDLE AGES.

      121

      • #

        Greame,
        The socialists always say that socialism fails because the people involved were not good enough. In Britain, the Corbynistas are abandoning Venezuela as a role model, given that average weight and life expectancy are following the economy downwards. All what it needs is a bit more belief.

        50

  • #

    I noticed this as it happened, the first occasion on the Tuesday, and mentioned it in my new Series on daily power consumption across Australia.

    I’ve never seem something like this happen before, and as I mentioned in an earlier Thread here at Joanne’s site, it was actually a really good insight into how the grid actually coped with a loss of power of this magnitude.

    I took a screen print of the relevant losses, and that is at this link, which is part of the first Post I have linked to below.

    Then, it happened again on the Thursday, and again I wrote that up, and that’s in the second link below.

    It was surprising how quickly both events were covered, and tells me (especially) just how well something like this is handled.

    Link to Tusday’s event.

    Link to Thursdays event.

    The text explaining both is in my ‘Comments For This Day’, at the bottom of the data and graphs.

    Tony.

    350

    • #
      toorightmate

      And while this rank stupidity continues in Australia, Steam coal Crice is at a 6 year high.

      130

      • #
        Rosco

        At least we are still exporting the stuff and earning billions – “The latest trade data from the Australian Bureau of Statistics indicates the strength of coal exports in 2017 which were valued at $56.5 billion”.

        They are our second largest export earner and we are probably the largest exporter in the world – certainly in coking coal.

        Coal contributes more than 10% of Budget revenue and the IDIOT Greens still want to leave it in the ground. Of course they still expect their mobiles and iPads as well as their lattes using fairy dust to provide electricity.

        170

        • #
          truth

          Rosco…

          We’re only still exporting fossil fuels for now .

          Renew Economy have an article citing research in Nature by Dutch researchers warning off investors in fossil fuels ….pretending it’s on economic grounds and with investors’and the resource owners’ interests at heart.

          https://reneweconomy.com.au/fossil-fuels-dirty-secret-things-look-bad-climate-action-not-19272/

          IMO it’s part of Europe’s plan to destroy the economies of resource countries like Australia….similar to Hans-Werner Sinn’s essay of a few years ago..and book The Green Paradox… HIS PLAN to create a European et al ……* ’UN-controlled SEAMLESS CONSUMER CARTEL’ * to FORCE resource countries to leave their FF resources in the ground ….with the UN ENFORCERS ENSURING those countries would have no buyers.

          Sinn…who’s involved in the Dutch study …said the policy would amount to ..

          [ ‘ a partial expropriation of the resource owners’…and

          ‘the UN will become, in economic terms albeit not legally, the joint owner of the fossil fuel.’ ]

          He said it could very well precipitate military conflict but implied that would just be the price the world would have to pay.

          The Dutch researchers warn…

          [ ‘Wind turbines, solar panels and electric vehicles are getting cheaper and more abundant by the day, which is hurting demand for coal, oil and natural gas.

          As demand falls for conventional fuels, so will prices. Companies that laid claim to coal mines or oil wells, won’t be able to turn a profit by digging up that fuel.

          They will default on their loans, pushing banks to the brink of failure.’ ]

          Of course what they neglect to say is that the drop in value of coal assets is NOT a failure of coal as a fuel as they imply… but is artificially engineered by governments that mandate that the intermittent electricity must be favored for dispatch ahead of the coal-generated electricity…freezing coal out but forcing plants to be available to rescue the situation when weather-dependent wind and solar inevitably often can’t deliver on their bids.

          This government-forced role is what damages coal plants and destroys their economic viability …not any intrinsic flaw in coal.

          Renew Economy paraphrases the Dutch study…with what sounds like an implied threat to politicians…to toe the CAGW line or else..[ the ‘else’ being what happened to Tony Abbott and Canada’s Steven Harper]

          [ ‘A sudden and dramatic drop in the price of fossil fuels would lead to mass unemployment. Jorge Viñuales, a professor of law and environmental policy at the University of Cambridge and co-author of the study, warns this could fuel “public disenchantment and populist politics.” ‘

          ‘ if you are in the geopolitical game, you have to consider what could happen to you.” ]…

          The Dutch study seems like a European threat to America and other resource countries not toeing the Europe/UN line that they will find Europe and China aligned against them….CHINA considered by them to be CAGW/Paris-compliant …ie doing the ‘right’ thing .

          So Sinn’s ‘seamless consumer cartel’…forcing us to leave fossil fuel resources in the ground…so recently reiterated…seems to be a credible threat….especially with the specific China reference….and Communist China owning much of our NEM anyway…wind and solar generation…retail…transmission…distribution…plus a large slice of our gas assets and pipelines.

          00

    • #
      ColA

      Great post on your site Tony, a couple of things stand out:_

      1) The grid is huge and complex; wind is mostly piffling and totally unreliable, solar likewise even moreso!
      2) the power problems on both days were solved by fossils and hydro because they were large enough and could step up and PROVIDE POWER ON DEMAND because they had SPINNING RESERVE.
      3) There is no spinning reserve with unreliables, no method to increase their power input to the grid, if needed, and that is why they are so USELESS!!

      Keating and Howard were both told they had to build power stations to upgrade our aging fleet but by then the greenie blob had started to spew and now it has infested all the sub 40s who were indoctrinated in school and brainwashed in Uni.

      80

  • #
    Graham Richards

    I can’t wait for some little glitch to cause a major blackout that lasts for a week or more, causing major disruption to the economy of which ever state it occurs in. It’s the only way to waken the population to the problems awaiting us down the road. TV ads are always telling us how to save $2.00 a week or even Origin on how to save $20.00 a year on a total bill of $2,000.00. MORONS!
    There’s only one sure way, get rid of subsidies & the government’s behind the subsidies. Return to sanity. Time is running out!

    230

  • #
    John Watt

    Re AGL’s role in this…surely they operate Liddell under some form of “licence”, either from NSW Govt or AER. Can’t this licence be withdrawn? Otherwise we are simply hoping that aluminium producers go away.

    200

    • #
      Graham Richards

      The problem isn’t AGL. They’re just taking advantage while the dummies in Government are encouraging them. It’s government policy and the electorate put up with the lies & deceit!!!

      180

    • #
      Ve2

      AGL are not in business to generate power, they are like every other company, in the business of making money.
      You go where the sugar is.

      160

      • #
        Sceptical Sam

        To maximize the return on their investment. And good on them. That’s what the shareholders want.

        Any Liberal/National government that doesn’t understand that is socialist to their bootstraps.

        70

        • #
          GD

          AGL are … in the business of making money … that’s what the shareholders want.

          AGL is currently posting increased profits and dividends. I imagine there are some AGL shareholders who would have seen an increase in their dividend, only to see it negated by the increase in their power bills.

          121

  • #
    Phoenix44

    When Margaret Thatcher died, her biographer was asked what her greatest quality was. To my surprise, he said it was that she would not stand for wishful thinking.

    It seems to me that we have succumbed globally to wishful thinking o the highest order in terms of energy. Yes, it would be lovely to have cheap energy that does not harm the environment. It would be lovely to have lots of things. In the meantime however, we are destroying what we already have – aluminium, cheap transport, lighting and heating – but not even getting what we were promised.

    Greens love to quote the precautionary principle about AGW, GMOs etc yet never consider it with their policies. As with doctors, perhaps we should make all politicians take a simple oath – “first do no harm.”

    260

    • #
      Mal

      Nuclear and coal have much more energy density than gas and Over an order of magnitude above solar and wind.
      Wind and solar may be “free” but the cost to harvest, store and distribute this ” free” energy is not cost effective. Eventually reality will bite but until it does ideology will beat practical and pragmatic Rings reality.

      210

  • #
    Bitter&twisted

    I’m afraid you haven’t reached peak stupidity yet.
    If you had there would have been a sudden outbreak of common sense by the weasels who want your votes.,

    160

    • #
      C. Paul Barreira

      This assumes that the issue is mere “stupidity”. Ideology is more resilient than the apparent odd error. The “weasels” come without the language to challenge their own failures. That same lacuna means they cannot challenge the bureaucracy, which is likely the main driver for so-called renewables; nor, for the same reason, can the “weasels” challenge media and universities, no less maniacal. As a geo-political entity, Australia—and one had hoped (wrongly as it turns out) the condition was confined to South Australia—is a suicide cult.

      70

  • #
    Hanrahan

    I was waiting for Weekend Unthreaded to talk about this. NSW has been 2.5 GW short for days causing more instability than SA ever does. The fact that it is a much bigger market would have a little to do with that. :)

    They are giving coal a bad name. The fact that wind fails for a couple of days every week and thermal is EXPECTED to seamlessly pick up the slack is ignored. And what has happened to Australia’s battery, MIA? More like Australia’s AA cell.

    210

  • #
    Mark M

    You would think someone would get a clue, even after the headline …

    NSW grid struggles as coal goes missing after bad trips

    “The bad week for coal power in the eastern states continued on Friday, with the multiple trips of coal generators earlier in the week extending to an absence of more than 4,700MW of coal units in NSW grid, sending wholesale prices soaring.”

    https://reneweconomy.com.au/nsw-grid-struggles-as-coal-goes-missing-after-bad-trips-86981/
    ~~~~
    Green ‘logic’ says you must close down the ‘ageing’ coal and replace it with expensive unreliables.

    Common sense says fix/update the cheap energy source.

    240

    • #

      You know what?

      I reckon that guy at that site is copying my stuff.

      I write about this on the actual days that they happened, and then on the Friday, he comes out with this at his site.

      Notice how he didn’t mention how the grid coped, and also note how he didn’t mention that his precious renewables were not what saved the day.

      Doom and gloom he says, and then says that the answer to it all is actually ….. doom and gloom, only on a larger scale, by closing them all down.

      I mentioned earlier here at Joanne’s site that they would be saying ….. exactly what was said at that site.

      Cue Curly

      Tony.

      270

  • #
    PeterS

    Well well well! The chickens are finally coming home to roost. It’s about time too. It only has to become more interesting from here on now that more and more Western nations are joining the rest of the world to bolste their exiting and/or build more coal fired and/or nuclear power stations. I wonder how long both Turnbull and Shorten can keep a straight face and continue telling us that renewables is the way to go and coal fired power stations do not need any bolstering in the form of massive incentives even if renewables incentives are removed. It appears the tables are about to turn here. In other words we will soon not only have to stop renewables incentives we will have to introduce massive incentives for coal fired power stations, either new, existing or both. I bet Shorten won’t do that but Turnbull here is your opportunity to show you are the man. I’m just kidding – he’s a dill and would not come to that. Leadership change coming? el gordo you might be right about the ginger group after all. However I will believe it when I see it. Let’s hope it happens sooner rather than later as timing is key. The “new” LNP will need to kick serious ass and apply all of ACP’s polices on energy ASAP.

    140

    • #
      Kinky Keith

      Turnbull is Not a dill.

      He’s just mocking the voters and taxpayers by pretending to be unaware of what’s happening.

      It’s called Indifference.

      $$$$$$$$

      KK

      151

    • #
      DaveR

      Its ironic! Everybody thought it would be the air conditioner peak on a 45deg day that tipped the grid over. Its actually looking more likely its going to happen in winter caused by coal generators going off-line unexpectedly.

      60

  • #
    el gordo

    Hmmm …. the free market in all its glory.

    ‘Renewable energy sources blamed for “hollowing out baseload” power as outages hit and prices soar in lead up to long weekend.’

    Oz

    100

  • #
    Andrew McRae

    In NSW the awatt hooooo Aluminium Smelter

    The what??

    60

    • #
      Yonniestone

      I believe its an endangered owl, the fact an Australian aluminium smelter has the same name is bitter irony.

      70

      • #

        My jumpy mouse seems to have other ideas. Time to try a new mouse. :-( Fixed –thanks.

        40

        • #
          sophocles

          Time to try a new mouse.

          Don’t delay Jo, do it soonest. :-)

          I had a mouse like that about four years ago, and it suddenly and with malice aforethought, took my browser to places on the Internet I never wanted to see, don’t want to see and hope I never see again. I replaced it with four new mice: a replacement (in use), a future replacement for the replacement (a backup) and two Justins (Just In Case). They were on special as “buy one, get one free,” and as I was intending to buy two, I did … and got four. The faulty mouse was binned with great and solemn ceremony as a treasonous `rodent’ … I skipped the decapitation part.

          If you’re using a laptop, a standard mouse can be plugged into a USB port and is detected at boot. I’ve had that problem with an Apple laptop (not mine) and the nearest 3-button mouse available from the bits box worked fine. (It was also much more ergonomic and easier to use than the track pad … YMMV.)

          I can’t say I hadn’t been warned. I was, several times over preceding weeks.

          20

  • #
    Kinky Keith

    Tony mentioned in a post on the previous thread that the capacity factors at a point in time for coal fired power and rooftop solar were 89.8 and 11.5% respectively.

    What struck me, is that this comparison is a good way to highlight the Waste involved in the rooftop solar scheme.

    From an engineering perspective everyone can see the potential for losses in the rooftop system because it consists of so many small units: rooftop loses obviously from economies of scale.

    But what really jumped out was that the capacity factors showed the huge difference in working time between the two systems.

    What this means is that we are leaving rooftop idle for 9 times longer than coal fired. This suggests that return on investment is going to be 9 times better with coal fired.

    That, of course, is in a sane world.

    In our world of political science all you need do to fix that is invent a new tax and quietly put it only on coal fired power.

    KK

    180

    • #
      Yonniestone

      Compare the disposal logistics for both at the end of their life cycle, blowing up an empty structure is one thing but applying the same method to a heap of solar panels would be akin to a dirty bomb.

      150

    • #
      Bobl

      I have been doing some analysis of my own generAtion and demand. I have a rooftop 3kW system and at the moment in winter it only delivers about 7kWh a day. That’s about 1/10 of “nameplate”. In summer it’ll do better.

      00

  • #
    Lawrie Ayres

    I give up. The clowns are running the circus. These absolute (insert own epithet) will happily destroy our once great country and be proud of their achievements to boot. Once again the MSM has let us down badly. It will print without question every ridiculous climate claim but happily persecute a Peter Ridd.

    200

    • #
      PeterS

      Don’t give up just yet. Wait until the next federal election. If the people don’t wake up by then and still returns Turnbull’s party or elect Shorten’s party to government then you can give it all up and wait for the crash and burn. I do have a small ray of hope and suggest that either Turnbull is rolled and replaced by a leader who has the conviction to abandon the rewnewables nonsense forthwith or the ACP get enough support to hold the balance of power in either or both houses of parliament. I must admit though it doesn’t look good so far.

      20

  • #
    Yonniestone

    Once again the MSM fifth column has let us down badly done its job. FIFY

    As I believe there are two types of people you are one they are the other, think of Popper’s paradox of tolerance.

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  • #
    Hanrahan

    OT but too funny to let through to the keeper.

    Rocket Man Kim has a problem getting to Singapore to meet Bigger Red Button Donald, his tired old Ilyshun can’t be trusted for such a long flight over water so he must charter a better plane, prolly from Singapore.

    He says he can lob bombs on the US but he can’t fly to Singapore safely. Anyone else notice the credibility gap? Anyone reckon the rude’n'crude Donald will not have noticed this and have it in his quiver ready to play like a bower [it ain't a joker] if needed?

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    pat

    another party not to vote for:

    8 Jun: Guardian: Katharine Murphy: Move to renewables a ‘good thing’, Nationals’ David Littleproud says
    Agriculture minister says climate is changing and Australia must ‘use the best science available’
    The agriculture minister, David Littleproud, says the climate is changing and the transition in the energy market – with renewables displacing traditional power generation sources – is “exciting, not only for the environment but for the hip pocket”.
    In an interview with Guardian Australia, the Queensland National said the climate had been changing “since we first tilled the soil in Australia” and he does not care whether the change is due to human activity or not.

    “The reality is we are seeing disruption, particularly with renewables, and we are going to see cleaner air. I try not to live in cities, you do feel the effects … so it’s a good thing that renewables are coming on.
    “In fact, in my own electorate [of Maranoa in south-west Queensland] I’ve got all of the above. I’m about to have one of the largest solar farms in the southern hemisphere, one of the biggest wind farms in the southern hemisphere. I’ve got geothermal and I’ve got four coal-fired power stations. Two of those are super critical.
    “The disruption that’s happening with the technology, moving towards renewable energy, particularly in storage for base load, is exciting. I think it is a good thing.”…

    While some government colleagues have championed prolonging the life of coal-fired power plants, Littleproud said economics rather than a culture war would ultimately determine Australia’s future energy mix. “Economics will win out in the end and if base load power can be stored in particular, that’s an exciting thing for the environment and everyone’s hip pocket.”
    Littleproud has been on the road for much of the week with the prime minister, Malcolm Turnbull, visiting drought-affected regions of New South Wales and Queensland.
    The south-east of Australia this year has experienced record high temperatures during an unseasonably dry and hot autumn, prompting fire bans and warnings from authorities.

    In its latest winter outlook, the Bureau of Meteorology is forecasting warmer and drier-than-average conditions across large parts of the country. It suggests winter rainfall is likely to be below average for NSW, South Australia, northern Victoria and western parts of Western Australia.
    Turnbull this week said there was “no doubt that our climate is getting warmer”…

    Littleproud: “I honestly believe, having been a bank manager that sat around farmers’ kitchen tables, the greatest custodians of the land are farmers because their profit and loss is intrinsically tied to the health of their land. They don’t make a quid unless their environment and their farming is at its best.”…

    “I think we are already reducing emissions. We’ve made a commitment under the Paris agreement and we are moving towards that in a sensible and methodical way.
    “As disruption happens in the technology space, [emissions reduction] will increase. In my own electorate, people are self-sustaining through solar. The reality is that type of disruption is happening and that is an exciting thing not only for the environment, but for the hip pocket.”
    https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2018/jun/07/move-to-renewables-a-good-thing-says-nationals-agriculture-minister

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    • #
      Kinky Keith

      Are all of our politicians in a trance or alternatively, are they on the take.

      Comments for cash?

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      pat

      a little more Littleproud, son of an LNP MP – MSM loves him; Malcolm loves him.

      2 March: SMH: Meet Barnaby Joyce’s pro-renewables successor David Littleproud
      By Eryk Bagshaw
      The heir to Barnaby Joyce’s portfolio has declared he has nothing against renewables, believes climate change is fundamentally reshaping agriculture, and called on city dwellers to wake up to the economic heavy lifting being done by Australia’s farmers.
      David Littleproud, the banker who came within a couple of votes of snatching the Nationals leadership last week, has no intention of emulating the former deputy prime minister.
      “I am in favour of renewables, make no mistake,” he said. “It will mean we will have cleaner air to breathe, there is nothing to fear in that.”…

      Up until entering Parliament in 2016, Mr Littleproud’s thing was rural banking.
      He would visit properties “as a financial counsellor and sometimes as a marriage counsellor.”
      “I would put my history in the banking sector up against anyone’s,” he said, a week before the first hearings of the banking royal commission begin.
      “I’ve got nothing to fear.”
      https://www.smh.com.au/politics/federal/meet-barnaby-joyce-s-pro-renewables-successor-david-littleproud-20180302-p4z2ga.html

      Labor loves him:

      27 Apr: SMH: Mark Kenny: You’ve probably never heard of Malcolm Turnbull’s most intriguing minister
      David Littleproud’s meteoric rise from the backbench to cabinet shocked Canberra. But he may yet have further to climb.
      Littleproud’s opposite number in the Agriculture portfolio, Joel Fitzgibbon, acknowledges the minister’s strengths but has his own explanation for the near universal acclaim.
      “Well, David Littleproud is fortunate to be coming off a very low base,” says Fitzgibbon. “I still believe that Barnaby Joyce was amongst the worst agriculture ministers the country has had, so surely he [Littleproud] can only do better and so far he has demonstrated that he’s capable of doing better.”…

      Oct 2015: SouthBurnett.com.au: Banker Wins LNP Ballot For Maranoa
      However, he has also enjoyed his professional career in banking over the past 20 years…
      He first entered banking with NAB and worked for the bank at Nanango, Miles, Charleville, St George and Warwick … “all within Maranoa”.
      Four years ago he joined Suncorp, and is currently regional manager for south-west Queensland…

      Foreclosing on farmers taught me empathy for rural life, says David Littleproud
      The Australian – Dec 23, 2017
      Newly appointed Agriculture Minister David Littleproud has drawn on his … who worked with Suncorp and NAB, said foreclosing on businesses…

      50

    • #
      RicDre

      “Economics will win out in the end and if base load power can be stored in particular, that’s an exciting thing for the environment and everyone’s hip pocket.”

      Are people’s hip pockets excited by paying more for energy? I would think “exciting” is the opposite of what the hip pocket would be feeling under those circumstances.

      50

  • #
    pat

    maximum MSM coverage worldwide:

    9 Jun: Reuters: Pope tells top oil executives world must convert to clean fuel
    by Philip Pullella
    VATICAN CITY – Pope Francis, addressing top oil company executives, said on Saturday that the world must convert to clean energy and warned that climate change risked destroying humanity.
    “Civilization requires energy but energy use must not destroy civilization,” he told the high-profile group at the end of a two-day conference in the Vatican.
    He said climate change was a challenge of “epochal proportions”, adding that the world needed to come up with an energy mix that combated pollution, eliminated poverty and promoted social justice.

    The unprecedented conference, held behind closed doors at the Pontifical Academy of Sciences, brought together oil executives, investors and Vatican experts who, like the pope, back scientific opinion that climate change is caused by human activity and that global warming must be curbed.
    “We know that the challenges facing us are interconnected. If we are to eliminate poverty and hunger … the more than one billion people without electricity today need to gain access to it,” the pope told them.

    “But that energy should also be clean, by a reduction in the systematic use of fossil fuels. Our desire to ensure energy for all must not lead to the undesired effect of a spiral of extreme climate changes due to a catastrophic rise in global temperatures, harsher environments and increased levels of poverty,” he said.
    https://www.reuters.com/article/us-oil-vatican-conference-pope/pope-tells-top-oil-executives-world-must-convert-to-clean-fuel-idUSKCN1J50BD

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    • #
      Kinky Keith

      Why does he need to get involved in two religions?

      Adopting the holy sanctity of Climate Change™ is not going to help wash away the ugliness the seeps through his primary involvement; the Catholic church.

      Fix and clean the church and leave the other business to scientists.

      KK

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    • #
      pat

      Reuters has added all the following to the Pope piece with new “global destruction” headline, & new url:

      9 Jun: Reuters: Pope warns energy bosses of global destruction without fuel shift
      by Philip Pullella
      The oil and gas industry has come under growing pressure from investors and activists to play a bigger role in reducing greenhouse gas emissions to meet goals set out in a 2015 climate agreement signed in Paris.

      Companies are betting on increased demand for gas, the least polluting fossil fuel, and to a lesser extent on renewable power such as wind and solar to meet global targets of net zero emissions by the end of the century.

      Among the some 50 participants were Darren Woods, CEO of ExxonMobil, Claudio Descalzi, head of Italy’s ENI, Bob Dudley of BP, Eldar Saetre, CEO of Norwegian oil firm Equinor (formerly called Statoil), Vicki Hollub of Occidental Petroleum, and investors including Larry Fink of BlackRock.

      He said the transition to accessible and clean energy was “a duty that we owe towards millions of our brothers and sisters around the world, poorer countries and generations yet to come”.
      The pope also called for a global, long-term common project:
      “Environmental and energy problems now have a global impact and extent,” he said.
      https://www.reuters.com/article/us-oil-vatican-conference-pope/pope-warns-energy-bosses-of-global-destruction-without-fuel-shift-idUSKCN1J50BD

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  • #
  • #
    pat

    9 Jun: ClimateChangeNews: Pope Francis tells oil chiefs to keep it in the ground
    At a conference in the Vatican, the head of the Catholic Church urged heads of Exxon Mobil, Eni and BP to make a faster shift to clean energy
    By Megan Darby
    Addressing an audience including the heads of Exxon Mobil, Eni and BP, the head of the Catholic Church said rising greenhouse gas levels were “disturbing and a cause for real concern”.
    “Yet even more worrying is the continued search for new fossil fuel reserves, whereas the Paris Agreement clearly urged keeping most fossil fuels underground,” he said.
    “This is why we need to talk together – industry, investors, researchers and consumers – about transition and the search for alternatives. Civilization requires energy, but energy use must not destroy civilization.”…

    Oil companies argue their product will be needed for decades, to lift people out of poverty. The Pope acknowledged the latent demand for energy but said it must not come at the cost of the environment.
    “Our desire to ensure energy for all must not lead to the undesired effect of a spiral of extreme climate changes due to a catastrophic rise in global temperatures, harsher environments and increased levels of poverty,” he said.

    Analysts estimate at least two thirds of proven coal, oil and gas reserves need to stay in the ground to hold global warming below 2C, the goal of the Paris Agreement.
    Neil Thorns, director of advocacy at Catholic aid agency CAFOD, welcomed the Pope “preaching to the not-yet-converted”…
    “If energy companies are serious about caring for our common home, they need to take the Pope’s advice and hurry up with shifting their priorities – and therefore their money – from fossil fuels to renewables.”
    http://www.climatechangenews.com/2018/06/09/pope-francis-tells-oil-chiefs-keep-ground/

    8 Jun: ClimateChangeNews: Poor world calls on G7 to stick to climate agenda, despite Trump
    By Megan Darby
    He (Trump) will meet six other leaders unwilling to compromise on their commitment to fight climate change. Advance negotiators have failed to find common ground for the usual joint statement.
    Amid the tension, climate advocates reminded the group of rich nations of their fast-approaching 2020 deadline to deliver $100 billion a year in climate aid.
    “Many developing countries desperately need this support in order to make their contribution to climate action. I urge G7 members to unlock the promised and necessary funding to make this contribution possible,” wrote UN climate chief Patricia Espinosa in the summit brochure.

    Gebru Jember Endalew, Ethiopian diplomat and chair of the least developed countries bloc at UN climate talks, agreed: “Finance is key to enabling an effective global response to climate change so that all countries have the tools to limit greenhouse gas emissions and protect their citizens from its impacts.”
    Marshall Islands president Hilda Heine said she would travel to Charlevoix to remind her fellow leaders “now is the time to step up your climate action. The world’s most vulnerable countries expect the G7 to lead by example”.

    Trump has axed US contributions to the Green Climate Fund and other support mechanisms. But the rich world collectively pledged to the $100bn milestone. Questions about who will fill the gap have strained relations between would-be progressive donor countries and those depending on that money…
    “It is vital that geopolitics among the G7 do not impede progress on climate finance,” said Shaughn MacArthur of aid agency Care Canada…

    In response to questions from Climate Home News, a spokesperson for the (G7) presidency said “we anticipate productive discussions” on clean energy innovation – defined broadly enough to include “the sustainable extraction and use of fossil fuels”. Climate finance is not an explicit priority and no specific outcomes have been floated…

    Endalew urged the US to honour its climate commitments “for the health and prosperity of present and future generations”. Citing devastation in Puerto Rico, the US territory where Hurricane Maria is estimated to have killed nearly 5,000 people, he added: “The United States cannot afford to ignore climate change.”
    http://www.climatechangenews.com/2018/06/08/poor-world-call-g7-stick-climate-agenda-despite-trump/

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  • #
    pat

    Twitter: BBC Business: Climate change: Pope urges action on clean energy (BBC LINK)
    (first reply)
    Teodorescu George: Why he found some investments or the church makes some money? Otherwise they are not interested in the social life if no money are to be made.
    ETC
    https://twitter.com/BBCBusiness/status/1005410604838944770

    9 Jun: BBC: Climate change: Pope urges action on clean energy
    Pope Francis has said climate change is a challenge of “epochal proportions” and that the world must convert to clean fuel…
    He was speaking to a group of oil company executives at the end of a two-day conference in the Vatican.
    Firms present included ExxonMobil, BP, Royal Dutch Shell, Norway’s Equinor and Pemex of Mexico.

    Modern society with its “massive movement of information, persons and things requires an immense supply of energy”, he told the gathering.
    “But that energy should also be clean, by a reduction in the systematic use of fossil fuels,” he said…
    Under Pope Francis’ leadership, the church has moved to confront the business world on a range of subjects from poverty to tax havens and complex financial securities…

    The unprecedented conference brought together oil executives, investors and Vatican experts who, like the Pope, back scientific opinion that climate change is caused by human activity and that global warming must be curbed, Reuters reports.
    It is being held behind closed doors at the Pontifical Academy of Sciences, in a secluded 16th-Century villa in the Vatican gardens.
    Called Energy Transition and Care for Our Common Home, it has been organised by the Catholic University of Notre Dame in South Bend, Indiana…

    Growing energy demands
    Consumption of oil and gas is expected to grow, according to analysts, remaining the world’s largest sources of energy for the foreseeable future.
    ExxonMobil alone has announced plans to increase oil production in the US and start more than two dozen projects worldwide, adding more than one million oil-equivalent barrels per day…
    But it maintains that growing demand for energy cannot be met by alternatives like wind and solar power alone…

    Renewable sources provided about 18% of energy consumed in 2015, with forms like solar, wind and hydropower representing less than 10%, according to the International Energy Agency.
    That share is expected to grow to just 15% by 2030, it said.
    The US Energy Information Administration expects oil and other liquids to continue to account for almost a third of energy until 2040.
    https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-44424572?ocid=socialflow_twitter

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  • #
    pat

    useful idiots, not even being paid by the “renewable” energy mob!

    8 Jun: ClimateChangeNews: Activists plan worldwide climate demo to spur on the clean energy transition
    Organisers expect tens of thousands to participate in Rise for Climate on 8 September, showing support for action ahead of a key summit in California
    By Caitlin Tilley
    Campaigners are planning a wave of climate demonstrations across the world in September to spur leaders into action and demand greater climate commitments…

    Events will include a continental day of action in Australia, local renewable energy summits across the Pacific islands and Africa and virtual marches planned in East Asia. Europe is also getting involved with a major march planned in Portugal and a flagship event in the city of Kiev, Ukraine…
    “This global mobilisation sends a message to governments around the world: we have the momentum to achieve a fast and just transition to a sustainable and equitable world because more and more communities worldwide are leading the way towards 100% renewable energy for all, while also preventing new fossil fuel projects from being built,” said Payal Parekh, programme director at activist network 350.org.

    “Governments must take a lesson from local leaders because the science is clear, the technology for the energy transition is ready and we demand bold action now.”
    The mobilisation is scheduled days before California governor Jerry Brown hosts city, regional and business leaders for a Global Climate Action Summit in San Francisco, 12-14 September…
    http://www.climatechangenews.com/2018/06/08/activists-plan-worldwide-climate-demo-spur-clean-energy-transition/

    8 Jun: ClimateChangeNews: Climate Home News is offering two African reporting fellowships
    We are looking for two African journalists to report deeply on the effects of climate change and climate science on the continent’s development
    Fellows will be provided training and support in climate change reporting from CHN’s editorial team. They will also receive training in the scientific and technical challenges the continent faces from our project partners Future Climate for Africa…
    Each fellow is expected to produce four major stories between now and May 2019, receiving a fee of £3,000 for their work. There will be some budget for travel…
    Funding for this fellowship has been provided by ***Future Climate for Africa.
    http://www.climatechangenews.com/2018/06/08/climate-home-news-offering-two-african-reporting-fellowships/

    from other websites:

    ***Future Climate for Africa is a £20 million (US$30 million) programme funded by the UK Department for International Development (DFID) and Natural Environment Research Council (NERC).
    Declan Conway: Principal Investigator
    Declan is Professorial Research Fellow at the Grantham Research Institute, LSE…
    Declan’s funding has included the EU, UK Depts DFID, Defra and DECC, UK NERC and ESRC, US NSF and World Bank.

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  • #
    pat

    9 Jun: CBC: G7 leaders to talk gender, oceans and climate change — Trump to skip out early
    After summit’s trade-heavy start, Trudeau will shift conversation to other global issues
    by John Paul Tasker
    After an opening day dominated by trade talk, Prime Minister Justin Trudeau will shift the G7 conversation to other pressing global issues on Saturday — climate change and empowering women — but at least one leader has opted to skip part of the day’s meetings.

    U.S. President Donald Trump will leave La Malbaie, Que., early Saturday before G7 leaders are scheduled to have a working session on protecting the world’s oceans and redoubling efforts to stave off catastrophic climate change. He will, however, take part in the gender-focused breakfast session billed by Canadian officials as a chance for leaders to draft “concrete actions for the G7 to advance gender equality and women’s empowerment.”

    Trump will then duck out mid-morning to begin his nearly 20-hour journey to Singapore where he is expected to meet with North Korean leader Kim Jong-un on June 12, a tete-a-tete designed to encourage the rogue state to end its nuclear program

    Final communique uncertain
    At most G7 summits, the assembled leaders generally sign off on a communique committing their respective countries to a series of objectives.

    With Canada as president of this summit, Trudeau and his “sherpas” — negotiators in the language of global forums — have settled on five broad themes for this year:
    •Investing in growth that works for everyone.
    •Preparing for jobs of the future.
    •Advancing gender equality and women’s empowerment.
    •Working together on climate change, oceans and clean energy.
    •Building a more peaceful and secure world.

    A senior Canadian official, speaking to reporters on background Friday, conceded the U.S. has been non-committal about putting its signature on a final communique but they will not let U.S. intransigence derail the agenda.

    It’s a potentially embarrassing development for the Canadians, and a sign Trudeau couldn’t persuade all his G7 counterparts to embrace unity.

    But, until recently, G7 summits didn’t have to contend with the likes of Trump, who has made it a hallmark of his presidency to reject the established orthodoxy…

    Following that working session, Trudeau will meet with small island developing states, countries grappling with immediate impacts of global warming — and a group of nations which could also be called upon to back Canada’s bid for a UN Security Council seat
    http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/g7-leader-summit-day-2-climate-gender-trump-1.4699374

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  • #
    pat

    I know jo has begun an “unthreaded” but my final offer belongs here. always fun to see the CAGW MSM take some flak on Twitter (especially when their website is behind a paywall):

    Twitter: Financial Times
    Pope Francis urges oil and gas groups to tackle climate change…
    (check the replies)
    https://twitter.com/FinancialTimes/statuses/1005429766256758784

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  • #

    I am looking forward to another supply/demand crisis of electricity creating a major blackout over much of Eastern Australia lasting more than a day and causing a total breakdown of the economy. This alone will be enough to launch an army of angry peasants marching on Canberra armed with pitchforks and setting fire to the redundant Parliament. Only this will awaken the Pollies to what their crazed policy have created or destroyed.

    140

  • #
    michael hart

    Australians are probably in the process of discovering what we learned in the UK some years ago: Greens and their supporters do not think you should have any aluminium smelters in your state at all. Or Steel foundries. They hate industry.

    Yes, they also expect to always be able to buy and use products made from it, but at the same time they believe it to be somehow wrong or evil. They are now doing the same thing with plastics. There is no legal requirement for people to not be insane.

    What is the solution? I dunno. Perhaps, in the future, the educational system should require all schoolchildren and students to actually spend some time in every factory that actually produces every component for their smart-phone. But right now, the educational system is spewing out ‘graduates’ who often just reflect the ignorance and innumeracy of their teachers.

    Reducing innumeracy is probably the best approach. I am nothing special in mathematics, but if you can do the quick back-of-an-envelope common sense calculations, then you can usually dispatch most green schemes to the intellectual graveyard during a normal conversational exchange. Having to wait until you can more slowly and carefully go through their fallacies often gives greens the time to make an unsustainable claim and then escape before an opponent has time to properly refute it.

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  • #
    manalive

    Another huge coal breakdown — SEVENTH in past fortnight. This time sudden loss of 630MW at antiquated Vales Point Power Station. When will NSW Government begin to replace old coal with reliable 21st century reneables [sic] + storage? NSW way behind other states …

    Another ridiculous utterance from ‘The Pond’s Institute’.
    Borrowing Karl Kraus’s quip about psychoanalysis: ‘renewables are in fact the disease of which they purport to be the cure’.
    Bloodletting was used as a treatment for everything from acne to tuberculosis but when patients died it was blamed on not enough blood being taken.
    I think there may be an apt analogue there somewhere.

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    • #
      RicDre

      “Bloodletting was used as a treatment for everything from acne to tuberculosis but when patients died it was blamed on not enough blood being taken.”

      What a great analogy…I will use it in future discussions of “renewables”.

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  • #

    [...] Nova reports (as did The Weekend Australian) that the aluminium smelters in NSW are at risk from uncertain power supplies. Share this:TwitterFacebookGoogleRedditLinkedIn This entry was [...]

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  • #
    sophocles

    Excellent quote, manalive.
    Thank you.

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    • #
      Kinky Keith

      As Ric and yourself point out, very good quotes.

      People who hear these can easily relate to them.
      While they probably won’t understand the basis of the problem of electricity generation and related costs, they will see the potential for our situation to be just like the past.

      They will, at least, see the possibility that the renewables industry needs more examination and that there may be flaws that politicians have hidden.

      KK

      10

    • #
      Kinky Keith

      As Ric and yourself point out, very good quotes.

      People who hear these can easily relate to them.
      While they probably won’t understand the basis of the problem of electricity generation and related costs, they will see the potential for our situation to be just like the past.

      They will, at least, see the possibility that the renewables industry needs more examination and that there may be flaws that politicians have hidden.

      KK

      01

  • #
    sophocles

    Those spikes are $14,000 per megawatt hour bursts,

    Now you see and, maybe, understand why:
    1. Your generators had to be privatised … <evil grin> (for competition, for the generators to compete for the
         largest share of a captive market, who can extract the most money from that market.)
    2. Your electricity had to go through a Wholesale Market (a wholesale fleecing market.)
    3. Your expensive coal stations had to be dynamited … because the “cheaper (yeah right) alternatives used
         FREE energy. Think about it: all energy is free, even that in burning coal.
    4. More MORE and even MORE Windmills and PVs had to be installed to generate cheaper electricity from all that FREE energy.

    You guys ‘n girls have been done like Christmas Turkeys.

    Electricity is not a ‘commodity’ because it is not manufactured, it’s a way of moving energy from A (where it is generated
         to B where the energy is used by the load. It requires a circuit, that is a path from the generator to the load(user) and back again. So your loads (users) are a captive market, which is one of the two definitions of a monopoly. The realcompetition in such an electricity “market place” is for who gets the largest slice of the money. What do monopolies do best? Gouge, gouge and gouge some more. With such a limited number of generators, you have an instant cartel the members of which act in their own and their fellow members “best” interests.

    Think about how your electricty was generated and supplied until your stupid governments swallowed the World Bank’s Coolade of “Private Good, Public Bad.” Can’t have been all that bad when you got cheap, reliable, electricty in great quantities. Don’t worry, NZ’s govt has drunk from the same stupid Coolade too. In fact where it comes to monopolies, and electricity supply is a natural monopoly, you should be able to see now that “Public Good, Private Bad” is the best.

    No, it’s not Socialist. A sensibly set up and run economy identifies the monopoly opportunities and ensures they are controlled, through public ownership, and prevented from gouging. At $14,000 per kWH you are being gouged. Who does this benefit? Follow the money … yes, the generators, all the generators and only the generators. Most of the economy can be privately owned and the identified monopolies can be run by private operators who have tendered for the job, under tight scrutiny.

    The old (classical) economists have been proven right over and over about the dangers of monopolies. But it seems we have to learn the lessons afresh every few generations years.

    Test your gullibility here!

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    • #

      Re https://punch.photoshelter.com/image/I0000RcgXRhgQx1k
      test yr gullibility – cost 10p, wish it were that cheap,
      but due to guv-uh-mint-fiat-subsidies, add a few zeros,
      quite a few,and a $ sign.

      20

    • #
      sophocles

      beththeserf mentioned:

      due to guv-uh-mint-fiat-subsidies, add a few zeros,
      quite a few,and a $ sign.

      I wish :-) . Besides it would have to be £’s, it being a Brit cartoon.

      Errata for #35:
      Which reminds me: I made a typo in my post above (#35, second to last paragraph):
      kWh should be MWh (megawatt hours).

      (Neuron Entanglement between thought and fingers: k is first finger of LH while m is first finger of RH.
      Correct row, correct finger, wrong hand. So much for my touch typing! Expletive )

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      • #
        The Deplorable Vlad the Impaler

        Trust me, Sophocles, it really is OK. I only have two functioning brain cells that made it out of the ’60′s (that would be the ’1960′s’, for all those who might not otherwise know), and one of those two is on it’s last legs … … … … er, … … aaaah, … … … make that … … … … ‘dendrites’ … … …

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  • #

    £’s… A few £’s here, a few £’s there ‘n pretty soon
    yr talkng real money …(fer them but not fer us.) :(

    20

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    richard

    As Jo has pointed out before-

    “Renewable Australia update: Fear of blackouts means diesel generator sales up 400%”

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  • #

    Suddenly Australia is the only western nation on Earth with coal resources that can’t maintain its coal plants.

    Australia does not just have enough coal to meet its current needs. Proven reserves could meet current global demand for almost a decade.It has the fourth highest coal reserves, behind the USA, Russia and China.
    Figures calculated from the BP Statistical Review of Global Energy.

    https://manicbeancounter.files.wordpress.com/2017/10/proven-coal-reserves-2015-in-output-years.png

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  • #

    McGlade and Ekins 2015 estimate that the proven global reserves of oil, gas and coal would produce about 2900 GtCO2e. They further estimate that the “non-reserve resources” of fossil fuels represent a further 8000 GtCO2e of emissions. The estimated that to constrain warming to 2C, 75% of proven reserves, and any future proven reserves would need to be left in the ground. Using figures from the BP Statistical Review of World Energy 2016 I produced a rough split by major country.
    https://manicbeancounter.files.wordpress.com/2017/10/co2-emissions-from-proven-reserves-2015.png
    Not all of GHG emissions from fossil fuels. Using the IPCC’s / Paris Agreements target of limiting emissions to around 1000 GtCO2e (from 2013) at least 75% of all proven reserves need to be left in the ground and any future discoveries. At current levels, production of fossil fuels must cease in about 15 years. Have the UNFCCC even tried to persuade Russia, China, India, Saudi Arabia, Iran and many other countries that it is in interests of their future generations to shut down a major part of their economies without compensation? The eco-warriors seem so caught up in their own views they fail to see others have radically different perspectives about priorities.

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  • #
    Bruce

    Thank you Jo, sadly, the majority of our ” leaders” are totalitarian Globalists who have been well are truly ” educated” by a stacked education/indoctrination system, at all levels. I will try to be optimistic in spite of it all.

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