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Transformation glitch? Biggest issue facing South Australia is electricity say 70%

A Sunday Mail survey (paywalled) shows that despite SA having more “free, cheap and clean” renewable electricity than just about anywhere in the world, the number one biggest issue for most South Australians is … “electricity”. And despite all the renewable jobs created, the second most common concern is “jobs”. Going for the Paradox-Trifecta: most strangely of all, with elected leaders who are leading the largest energy transformation since civilization began, the third “biggest issue” facing South Australians is “political leadership”.

Thanks to Eric Worrall, who describes South Australians as “the world’s renewable crash test dummies”.

Survey, South Australia, 2017, biggest concerns, results. Graph.

SA has an election coming up in March, but at the moment voters there are caught in the bind between the reality of electricity shocks, and the belief that “renewables are cheap”. Will the local Libs (the opposition) have the spine to stand up and speak the truth and make this election about energy and climate, or will they pander #metoo, and lose the unloseable?

Will the Libs get the message here? Most South Australians like the sound of renewables, but when it comes to the crunch, and the issues they will vote on, electricity prices and jobs will rule. This is a bubble ripe for the popping. As for political leadership — sucking up to global bullies and namecalling parasites is not leadership. Speaking up against the dominant paradigm and against the fashionable memes is. Saying things that are unpopular but true is leadership.

As long as Liberals wait for the opinion polls to change (and produce even more obvious results than this) they are not leaders.

In agenda-setting results on a cornerstone issue for the March state election, more than 3500 respondents overwhelmingly ranked affordability and reliability as the most important components of electricity supply in the Sunday Mail Your Say, SA survey.

Forging a renewable energy industry was also popular among respondents, demonstrating support for solar, wind and batteries.

This indicates a clear public distinction between perceived hip-pocket and job creation benefits of renewable energy and the costs of curbing carbon emissions.

“Transforming our economy” is code for using power generators to control the climate. It was slightly more popular with the under 25s (31%) than older folk. By 65 years and older, only 20% were still under the delusion that the biggest issue facing SA is that the state government should force an energy transformation in order to get better global weather. That this number is any positive integer at all is a mark of how pathetic our national debate, media reporting and education system is.

Wait – The state leading the way on renewables is a backwards laughing stock?

Early results of the same survey showed that nearly 9 out 10 South Australians are aware of how silly their state looks:

“… other results are a serious wake-up call — an overwhelming 89 per cent feel that SA is perceived unfavourably by the rest of the nation, while 73 per cent expect life will be more difficult in the future.

The negative perception of SA as a “backward state” — or worse, a “laughing stock” — still haunts us, evidenced by the survey’s comments and almost any internet thread discussing our problems.

Apparently it’s hard to be a tax burden on the rest of the nation while trying to do a no-brainer obvious energy transformation which no where else in the world is leaping to do to the same extent or without seven interconnectors to coal and nukes.

There is incredible arrogance in thinking that that there is no good reason the rest of the world has “missed” the simplistic solution to energy.

VN:F [1.9.22_1171]
Rating: 9.1/10 (96 votes cast)
Transformation glitch? Biggest issue facing South Australia is electricity say 70%, 9.1 out of 10 based on 96 ratings

Tiny Url for this post: http://tinyurl.com/ybaxoznh

167 comments to Transformation glitch? Biggest issue facing South Australia is electricity say 70%

  • #
    PeterS

    As has been said before, SA is an experiment on socialism on a grand scale. It will end with many tears, hopefully sooner rather than later so that Australia wakes up and never ever again vote for either the LNP or the ALP in their current form. We need those two parties to be altered drastically or if necessary wiped off our political landscape. Otherwise, Australia is headed for an economic and social disorder the likes we’ve never seen. I don’t hold much real hope of it being avoided but one can only be at least a little optimistic that Australians are not that stupid.

    621

    • #
      Mall

      AGL has restated it will close Lidded in NSW if this is allowed to happen it will be past the point of no return for all of Australia. Dumping the renewal energy target (fed gov responsibility) is essential first step NOW. Removal of tariffs on Coal to subsidise renewals is required now.
      Don’t politicians realise that exporting coal to SE Asia is giving them a huge competitive advantage. This in essence is exporting jobs as well as increasing cost of living to all Auztralians.
      How dumb.

      550

      • #
        PeterS

        Indeed. As long as the rest of the world keeps building their nuclear and coal fired power stations in the hundreds, and the longer we keep demolishing our aging coal fired power stations without replacing them, the bigger the disaster we will have to suffer under whatever government we have. It would be a sign of a turnaround from the abyss if a government decides to build new generation nuclear and/or coal fired power stations in the next couple of so years. The clock is ticking and time is running out.

        390

        • #
          ian hilliar

          But, surely, can’t we build an interconnector to China, or Japan, or even Indonesia????

          100

          • #
            Manfred

            Come on people, who needs coal, interconnectors or rationality? Just plug into the UN Green Fund and hey prestissimo, all will be well. And I bet that’s the back-stop plan for SA.

            120

            • #
              toorightmate

              Unfortunately, all the stuff about economics and subsidies just confuses and clouds the real issue – the CO2 horsesh*t has to stop.

              330

            • #
              ghl

              Manfred
              Since the SA power problems are directly caused (linked by stupidity) by AGW we are due some UN money.

              120

          • #

            In one of her more illucid moments after a bottle or two, Minister Alannah was going to build a giant solar wotsit between Broome and Port Hedland along with an inter-connector, to sell power to Indonesia!

            120

            • #
              Mall

              Who votes these brain dead politicians in? I

              90

              • #
                King Geo

                “Who votes these brain dead politicians in”?

                SIMPLES – THE BRAIN DEAD LEFT WING ELECTORATE WHO HAVEN’T WORKED OUT WHY THEIR KIDS WITH UNIVERSITY DEGREES CAN’T GET A JOB EXCEPT AT MACCAS. HOPEFULLY THE PENNY, I MEAN CENT, WILL DROP WHEN THEIR KIDS START THINKING OF “COST OF LIVING SURVIVAL INSTINCT” – EVENTUALLY AFTER THEIR “LEFT WING PARENTS” ARE SICK OF SUBSIDIZING YOUNG JOHNNY – AND CENTRELINK AS WELL.

                140

            • #
              Graeme No.3

              Tom Harley:

              Who is Minister Alannah? Do you have a link for the sheer stupidity? Has she heard of tectonic boundaries?

              Will trade one of Tom Koutsantonis SA Treasurer and Minister for Energy (also known as silly kout) claiming that SA would soon be able to sell energy to the world (by intermittent hydrolysis to hydrogen. 35% efficient at best. SA total generation in this way represents less than 0.03% of the world’s generation, so even if the problems of storage, transportation and conversion to usable energy were solved, not quite a market shaking event).

              101

              • #
                King Geo

                Tom Harley is referring to WA pollie Alannah McTiernen. She was at UWA in the 1970′s like King Geo. Mind you I rate her as one of the best ALP pollies which goes to show just how low the standard is & was in ALP ranks – and the LIBS are no better – very sad.

                120

              • #
                Graeme No.3

                Will sell Christopher Pyne for postage cost only. Buy now for Christmas.

                60

              • #
                William

                No Graeme, Pyne is not worth the postage. You will have to keep him I am afraid. Sadly for South Australia, but to the benefit of the rest of the country, it is best that we concentrate the loons in one or two places and South Australia is our little canary in the coal mine.

                80

      • #
        Tom O

        What I have always tried to understand – and failed – is how replacing the means to generate the intermittent electricity from “renewables” every 20 to 30 years is “free,” and how just because the wind blows a good part of the time, it is considered “renewable” to start with. How many wind turbines running full capacity does it take to generate the power to replace themselves while supplying the required electricity for other purposes, and can it actually supply the energy needed to replace themselves to start with? If it can’t, it’s neither free nor renewable. They’re just dinosaurs in the making.

        270

      • #
        Leonard Lane

        @Mall.
        Good points. One other. If the left/greens are really concerned about alleged CO2-global climate change then does it matter where the coal is burned? Isn’t CO2 from China, India, and Australia all the same?

        80

        • #
          PeterS

          Yes it’s the same but lots more of it. Even if we built a dozen new generation coal fired power stations right now, we would still be contributing a tiny fraction of what China alone is contributing. How anyone doesn’t understand Australia is alone in committing economic suicide by refusing to build new generation coal fired power stations or even nuclear baffles me. The obvious conclusion is Australian politicians and major businesses are a dumb lot, and only ever look at the short term and to hell with the longer term. That’s OK since the public will eventually wake up once reality hits them in the head big time, and then those leaders will have to run for their lives and leave the country. The South pole would be a nice spot for them.

          80

          • #
            David Wood

            The politicians are certainly dumb, the business leaders probably not. AGL for example is simply banking on the huge subsidization of renewable energy (at least $3billion/year currently) continuing so that they can game the NEM power pricing.
            If Turnbull really wants Liddell to keep going and new HELE coal-fired plants to be built, there is a simple solution, stop subsidizing wind and solar! The change in attitude of the rentseekers would be dramatic!

            111

      • #
        Geoffrey Williams

        Are we heading the same way as South Australia !?
        GeoffW

        40

  • #
    jorgekafkazar

    “There is incredible arrogance in thinking that that there is no good reason the rest of the world has “missed” the simplistic solution to energy.”

    Incredible arrogance is one of the primary identifying traits of Liberalism.

    292

  • #
    Graeme#4

    This morning’s article in The Australian about the SA govt’s refusal to reveal the cost of their diesel generator purchases has so far attracted over 450 comments. There is even one idiot insisting that SA has the cheapest power in Aust…

    460

    • #
      OriginalSteve

      Maybe …if you included maybe angola….

      50

    • #
      Chad

      The generators are on a 2 year lease initially…with purchace options i assume ?
      Even that was forecast at over $100m
      From ABC .net a month ago..

      …..
      At a budget and finance committee in October, the head of the Department of Treasury and Finance, David Reynolds, said the cost of the short-term generation was around $108 million, while buying the generators was likely to cost around $300 million.

      Opposition Leader Steven Marshall told Parliament that taxpayers deserved to know the final figure.

      “Given that the Treasurer has been unable to provide the detail that’s required, can he at least confirm that in fact the under treasurer [David Reynolds], who reports directly to the Treasurer here in South Australia has belled the cat?” he said.

      The generators are on a two-year lease and the Opposition has urged the Government not to commit to buying them before the March election……

      20

  • #
    Dennis

    Is there any truth in the claims that apart from price gouging over the holiday period that the price of diesel has risen more than usual because of the extra demand on supply for recently installed government owned diesel generators?

    261

  • #
    Andrew

    The last paragraph.

    Yep, when something is the “biggest in the world” either
    - no one else wants / has any use for it that size OR
    - no one has figured out how to do it and is using you as an experiment.

    240

  • #
    el gordo

    The survey was conducted with Survey Monkey software and it sounds credible.

    61

  • #
    Tim

    And wait for this Wednesday, 13/12. Mid to high 30s in Adelaide, Melbourne and Brisbane,Sydney, Hobart in the low 30s.
    Will there be enough power to keep the lights air-conditioning on?
    AEMO are already issuing Lack Of Reserve notices for SA and VIC, so things will be tight.

    200

    • #
      Tim

      Sorry, I got this wrong :
      Will there be enough power to keep the lights air-conditioning on?

      Should be :
      Will there be enough power to keep the air-conditioning lights on?

      :-)

      170

      • #
        OriginalSteve

        We can only hope vic and sa collapse in the heat, it will be the only thing that will wake up the dopey voters…i mean victoriastan has a communist leadership and SA leadership is like the keystone cops on a bad day….

        I never thought people could be so stupid as to elect a communist leadership in vic. Energy prices skyrocket, power is unreluable, you can off peopke in a hospital if ypur choising, and “safeschools” is forced on all our vulnerable children.

        It sounds more like a pol pot lite reboot…

        201

      • #
        wert

        Air conditioning has the led light showing it is off, and keeping than light on is a serious challenge.

        50

      • #
        yarpos

        Finally had the sparkie properly wire in our generator, so know its a flick of the switch option. Just in time for the summer should things go pear shaped. He said that he has noticed a strong uptick in generator related work.

        80

  • #
    pat

    heard mention of this on radio this morning, but it’s behind paywall. don’t know if there is one or two articles. can’t access more excerpts than what is below. hope someone will follow up.

    mind you, I don’t believe it’s a mere 42,000 families across Australia who are having problems paying their power bills:

    Bernard Salt: Energy poverty is a problem that needs tackling
    The Australian – 17 hrs ago
    This confluence of data has enabled me, working with KPMG as a special adviser, to metricise the scale of an important social issue: energy poverty. The Household Expenditure Survey shows that during the 2016 financial year Australian households spent an average of $40.92 per week on domestic fuel …
    There are 42,000 households in Australia that can be defined as both large (5+ persons) and low-income (earning less than $650 per week). This community contains 240,000 people, or 1 per …

    ‘Energy poverty’ hits 42,000 families
    The Australian – 17 hrs ago
    17 hours ago – The impact of energy poverty includes about 10,000 low-income families in the western Sydney suburbs of Fairfield and Liverpool. Energy poverty hot … While new technology such as gas and battery storage and more energy-efficient appliances could help, gas remained a potential problem…

    80

    • #
      David-of-Cooyal-in-Oz

      G’day Pat,
      Channel 10 News at 5 had what seems like the same story. Sorry, I can’t provide a link.
      Cheers,
      Dave B

      40

    • #
      RickWill

      South Australia wins the highest household electricity debt race at $938:
      https://www.aer.gov.au/retail-markets/retail-statistics/2016-17-q4-average-residential-energy-debt-by-jurisdiction

      Victoria must not release the data!

      50

      • #
        ColA

        Hey they are talking 4th quarter!

        That’s $3,750 per year,

        can’t these morons see what they are doing or are their heads so rectumized that they just don’t care??

        By the time enough, yuppie latte inner city leftards wake up SA will be a total basket case.

        30

      • #
        OriginalSteve

        SA seems to be like a sink hole for everything bad……Snowtown bodies in barrels, collapsing economy, unhinged leadership, greenwashed pied piper type politicians who just want to lead people off a cliff.

        A while back they used to advertise you could get a lot more for your money house-wise in SA. I think its on par when you add in the power costs and the fact no one will now live there and it will soon resemble the Korean DMZ….

        20

  • #
    Leonard Lane

    It is sad to see politicians forge ahead when they know they are wrong. They must care little or nothing for the citizens of SA.

    250

  • #
    Geoffrey Williams

    South Australian Energy policy; ‘Parochial’ is the word that comes to mind. Sorry to be so blunt & cynical but that is how I see it. The brainwashing by the left has been steeped into peoples minds and is irreversible. And this is not a problem restricted to SA, but is something endemic throughout the country. They cannot ‘unlearn’ what they believe. It’s a one way street that can only end with power outages and higher electricity prices for us all.
    GeoffW

    291

    • #
      OriginalSteve

      Now we see the wisdom of the US Constitution….

      We dont have a bill of rights nor freedom of speech… Boy we are going to need a 2nd Amendment if it all goes to custard…

      120

    • #
      Extreme Hiatus

      GW, I’m a bit – a bit – more optimistic about the brainwashing, though it may take a while. Can you imagine Millennials with electricity? Power outages will teach them new reality-based lessons about air-conditioners, lights and computers and recharging cell phones, and eventually they’ll all be paying those high electricity bills. In the meantime they’ll go to the beach and it will still won’t be flooded while China and India pour on the coal. At least some of them, as they mature, are bound to catch on. Maybe.

      160

    • #
      Allen Ford

      I think John Cleese may have had the current crop of pollies and bureaucrats in mind when he made this video clip!

      10

  • #

    Let the million electric toothbrushes blossom!

    110

  • #
    Phillip Bratby

    The propagandists have been very successful at fooling the young.

    180

    • #
      Mall

      They are young and impressionable. The Hitler youth, Mao , communism, now climate change are targeted at the young as they don’t have the reasoning skills of people who have life experiences. By the time they have worked out they have been had, the damage has been done. History just keeps repeating itself.

      230

      • #
        el gordo

        ‘By the time they have worked out they have been had, the damage has been done.’

        It’ll be alright, young people can recover from this never ending war of words. Efforts to inculcate AGW theory in schools has largely been a failure, with many teachers practicing civil disobedience to avoid pushing unscientific propaganda onto the pupils.

        Satire will be the key to ultimately free their minds of fear and foreboding.

        150

        • #
          GD

          Satire will be the key to ultimately free their minds of fear and foreboding.

          Milo Yiannopolis said as much last week in interviews in Australia on his most welcome tour.
          Laughter, satire, and ridicule are the best medicine.

          150

      • #
        NB

        Yes, but are parents allowing their kids to be brainwashed?

        80

        • #
          el gordo

          Yes but in western society young people have a natural tendency to defy old people, so having a clash over the weather and the science behind it should become socially acceptable.

          40

    • #
      Robert Swan

      The young have been taught to regurgitate the propaganda, but it’s likely a fair few quietly refuse to swallow.

      50

    • #

      Take a look at Invisible Serfs Collar, research
      into what purports to be k-12 education in the US
      and elsewhere. Values make-over of students Eubanks
      calls ‘mind arson.’ Oz curriculum and emotional
      learning approaches have a similar goal, not to develop
      individuals’ critical thinking and skills but to produce
      a populace desired by top down gurus.

      http://invisibleserfscollar.com/

      30

  • #
    BoyfromTottenham

    Thank heavens I live in Queensland, where our almost fully state govt owned generators are high efficiency, fairly new, and produce nearly 20% more electricity than we consume. We export the excess to NSW (thence to Victoria, Tasmania and SA), and reap the ever-rising price that their lack of baseload generation is causing. What is not to like?

    250

    • #
      Mall

      Build a couple more. We need them.

      150

      • #
        Greg Cavanagh

        Sure thing, and we’ll throw in a free desalination plant at no extra cost. It’s right on the border in the Gold Coast, so transport will be cheaper too (or we can just move the border).

        50

    • #
      ColA

      But wait – boy does ANNASTACIA have a plan for YOU and YOU and YOU, she is so generous!!!

      50% UNRELIABLES – she plans to GUT Queensland and you buggers voted her in!!!

      She draws her inspiration from WeatherDILL

      80

    • #
      Ian1946

      The thing not to like is the southern parasites due to socialist green policies are forcing up the power price in Queensland. The Generators here are making windfall profits at our expense. We would be better off if the interconnectors were switched off and the excess power used to lure industry to Queensland.

      20

    • #
      yarpos

      It should be blindingly obvious to anyone that cares to look, who has copious stable power supply and who doesnt these days. If Palacechook decides to stuff up QLD’s competitive advantage it would be an act of gross stupidity probably even exceeding Weatherdills, as they so much more to lose.

      10

  • #
    Bruce Imrie

    Philip Bratby hit the nail on the head: the younger generation has been brainwashed (because of a deficiency in maths and science education?) into believing the garbage about CO2 and human responsibility for global warming. It will be very difficult to change their beliefs.

    170

    • #
      el gordo

      A properly funded science course, concentrating on AGW theory and paleo climate history, could bring about dramatic change if the class is segregated into red and blue teams.

      80

      • #
        ColA

        Get real – there is NO UNIVERSITY in Australia which has the balls to challenge the CAGWatologist religion and cut their nose of from the funding trough.

        60

        • #
          el gordo

          I was thinking upper Primary level schooling.

          10

        • #
          el gordo

          Teacher: Today we are doing atmospheric science, hands up all those who think carbon dioxide is a dangerous gas?

          Most of the class put up their hands, except for a couple of recalcitrant lads at the back of the room.

          Teacher: Okay you two are the red team who don’t accept the settled science, that a buildup in carbon dioxide is making the world a warmer place?

          Scruff: Yeah, my dad is a skeptic and always bending my ear, so I’ll be getting coaching.

          20

  • #
    Extreme Hiatus

    Looks like the “renewable crash test dummies” have woken from their green dream. But can they slow or stop the car? Should be interesting to see how their “political leadership” tries to spin this and keep it going. Whatever they do a few more blackouts would likely be a major tipping point… you would think… They’re not really dummies are they?

    160

    • #
      PeterS

      I might be wrong but if we ever get a massive heat wave across Qld, NSW, Vic and SA at the same time (unlikely) surely it will kill the grid and send us all into darkness for a very long time. Imagine if such a heat wave condition lasted a week. Hang on a minute! Isn’t that what the global warming alarmists are predicting in the long run when there will be a much higher reliance on renewables? Hmmmm. Someone has a screw loose. Perfect storm coming one day.

      170

      • #
        Extreme Hiatus

        It does seem inevitable with this ‘management.’ On the bright side, a big blackout is probably what it will take to really put the brakes on this insanity – one caused by the green end of the grid.

        130

        • #
          PeterS

          No body really knows yet which will come first. It will be the mother of all blackouts or the economic destruction of the nation. Whichever one it is, it surely must make the Greens and anyone who still follows them, run for their lives and leave the country. Although we will have to suffer much pain through the process, it will be such a glorious day to them go.

          40

  • #
    Dave

    I love the new names in South Australia for Renewables

    The BIG BATTERY
    The TOWER of POWER
    The GIANT GENSETS

    I think the LOVE of these tourist attractions will wear thin when the Renewable Crash Test Dummies in South Australia are without power for a week in January!

    151

  • #
    pat

    in comment #8 I posted a few short excerpts from the following which I can’t access because it’s behind paywall for me:

    Bernard Salt: Energy poverty is a problem that needs tackling
    The Australian – 17 hrs ago
    This confluence of data has enabled me, working with KPMG as a special adviser, to metricise the scale of an important social issue: energy poverty…

    also mentioned I thought 42,000 low for the number of families across Australia having problems paying their power bills, which is what I heard on radio.

    now i’m thinking how KPMG (Bernard Salt is a partner, according to Wikipedia) is well & truly on board with CAGW in the worst possible way, so might downplay “fuel poverty”, e.g.

    12 Oct: Three quarters of companies worldwide yet to acknowledge climate change as a financial risk
    Almost three quarters (72 percent) of large and mid-cap companies worldwide do not acknowledge the financial risks of climate change in their annual financial reports, according to the KPMG Survey of Corporate Responsibility Reporting 2017 published today…

    KPMG’s survey studied annual financial reports and corporate responsibility reports from the top 100 companies by revenue in each of 49 countries: a total of 4,900 companies.
    It found only five countries in the world where a majority of the top 100 companies mention climate-related financial risks in their financial reports: Taiwan (88 percent), France (76 percent), South Africa (61 percent), US (53 percent) and Canada (52 percent). In most cases, disclosure of climate-related risk is either mandated or encouraged in these countries by the government, stock exchange or financial regulator…

    KPMG’s Global Head of Sustainability Services, José Luis Blasco, said…
    “Pressure on firms to up their game on disclosure is growing by the day. Some investors are already taking a hard line approach to demanding disclosure; some countries are considering regulation to mandate it; and some financial regulators have warned that failure to identify and manage climate risk ***is a breach of a Board’s fiduciary duty. In this context, we encourage firms to move quickly. Those that don’t could very soon start to lose investors and find the cost of capital and insurance cover escalates quickly.”

    KPMG’s survey also explored further trends in corporate responsibility reporting including reporting on the UN’s Sustainable Development Goals (SDGs), reporting on human rights and reporting on carbon reduction targets.

    Key findings include:
    •The UN SDGs – a set of 17 global goals to end poverty, protect the planet, and ensure prosperity for all – have resonated strongly with businesses worldwide in less than 2 years since their launch at the end of 2015…ETC
    https://home.kpmg.com/xx/en/home/media/press-releases/2017/10/companies-not-noting-financial-risk-of-climate-change.html

    then I thought of another story I heard mentioned on radio this morning:

    11 Dec: AAP: Govt pays billions for private consultants
    The federal government has forked out almost $2.5 billion in consulting fees since coming to office, including $1.2 billion to Accenture, at the same time as cutting the public service.
    An Australian National Audit Office report shows ***KPMG received $620 million, while PwC earned $523 million, Deloitte ($365 million) and Boston Consulting Group ($78 million) in the five years since the coalition came to power, the Daily Telegraph reports.

    Human Services Minister Alan Tudge used to work for Boston Consulting Group, former head of the prime minister’s Office for Women, Amanda McIntyre currently works for PwC, while former immigration department secretary and deputy secretary of the department of prime minister and cabinet, Andrew Metcalfe is employed by Ernst & Young which earned $422 million in fees.
    https://au.news.yahoo.com/a/38230915/govt-pays-billions-for-private-consultants/

    behind paywall:

    10 Dec: Daily Telegraph: Taxpayers spend $2.5 billion on management consultants
    by NATASHA BITA
    NEARLY $2.5 billion of taxpayer money has been poured into the pockets of management consultants since the federal Coalition won power, creating a phantom public service of private advisers.
    Spending spiralled to a record $690 million in 2016-17 — three-quarters higher than the consultancy costs in 2012-13, when Labor lost office…

    is any one of the above groups at all sceptical of CAGW….publicly?
    don’t think so, although they might, in their private moments, admit it’s a terrible, expensive joke being played on the public. more fools us.

    80

    • #

      ” … in comment #8 I posted a few short excerpts from the following which I can’t access because it’s behind paywall for me:”

      Yep. Up to now it was fairly easy to get round the paywall. The survey report above, 44 pages, was easy enough to obtain, but the same loophole for The Australian no longer works. Paper media are hurting because of declining subscriptions, but they left a loophole so they didn’t loose the chance of syndication money. Maybe they plugged the loophole because syndication wasn’t worth much.

      40

  • #
    John Westman

    Lets remember that the “gooses” (I am being kind to them) have gone all out for so called green energy with the intention of getting better weather.

    Mother nature has a wonderful suite of irony and humour as she comes along and blows down a heap of SA’s power pylons.

    So mother nature has a great bout of merriment, but the “gooses” can’t see that they are being laughed at.

    Has anyone heard anything from Professor Tom Foolery recently, he seems to have gone very quiet?

    91

    • #
      rollo

      Tim got a gig on catalyst a few months ago, but don’t waste your time watching it.

      “Professor Tim Flannery investigates how seaweed is helping to save the world – from growing the foods of the future, helping clean polluted water and even combating climate change.”

      70

  • #
    robert rosicka

    SA voters should stop whinging they got what they voted for and the same goes for Victoriastan let’s face it the voting majority chose poorly and for many reasons but we all have a brain .
    Yes it also effects those that voted otherwise .

    81

    • #
      Tator

      Robert, SA voters voted the ALP out in the last two elections. They are only in power because of a dodgy electoral system and two easily bought independents.
      Last election the ALP had a primary vote of 35.8% compared to the Liberals 44% and the TPP was 47 to 53 in the Libs favour. Not exactly a ringing endorsement of their policies. In a notionally fair electoral system a party with 53% of the TPP would win in a landslide.

      00

  • #
    David Maddison

    Cut the interconnector! Let them be “free”.

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  • #
    sophocles

    I’m going to have to pass on saying anything.
    I’m a foreign national living outside Australia. This may all be an attempt to have their own kangaroo court for election `meddling.’

    Law like this is inevitably misused. When does speaking one’s mind or uttering the truth as it is seen become `meddling?’

    Once these laws are in place, then it’s when someone with some power/authority says so.

    51

    • #
      beowulf

      Sorry Sophocles, you already have said something and you don’t seem to be in possession of 90% of the facts, nor will the linked articles help you in that regard.

      A serving senator has committed multiple acts of what a reasonable person would regard as treason. The proposed law has nothing to do with a “kangaroo court”, nor does it pertain to any particular election result. It has nothing to do with “uttering the truth”. No one is stopping anyone from speaking their mind. I don’t know where you plucked those ideas from. The case refers to the senator’s scurrilous activities since being elected and his promoting the interests of an unfriendly foreign power in Australia’s internal affairs and foreign policy.

      In the present Constitutional climate of multiple Australian MPs being removed from office for a mere deemed conflict of interest on the basis that their grandfather was Polish or some similar spurious reason, having an MP actively and deliberately promoting the interests of a foreign power on multiple occasions over an extended period is unconscionable. He has been caught red-handed taking money several times from a foreign power to influence the government of Oz. Any law to stop that is entirely justified.

      How can a law against foreign donations to political parties or individuals be misused? It in no way muzzles free speech. It stops back-door corruption. The influence of China in Oz politics is becoming more brazen all the time. The feigned Chinese offence at being singled out for dishonourable mention is hilarious since they have their tentacles into us from many angles. Enough is enough. Bring on the new law. The fact that they are belly-aching is a sign that the law is on target.

      150

  • #
    Another Ian

    “Frank Luntz, a GOP establishment messaging consultant, was visibly flabbergasted as every single one of his focus group participants in a Birmingham area Vice News-produced panel backed Judge Roy Moore for U.S. Senate. ”

    https://theconservativetreehouse.com/2017/12/09/frank-luntz-goes-to-alabama/

    Sounds like “Not Listening 101″ is not only a course in which Australian politicians gained credits

    80

  • #
    Sceptical Sam

    Will the local Libs (the opposition) have the spine to stand up and speak the truth and make this election about energy and climate, or will they pander #metoo, and lose the unloseable?

    That’s the central question.

    And the answer is most likely to be the latter. That is, they’ll squib it, or, run an ineffective counter.

    Why? Because Malcolm the muddle-head is hot to trot on renewables and the National Office of the Liberal Party will see the danger in having a State Liberal Party telling the truth about renewables. They see it as a Malcolm mugging. They can’t have the truth told. So they’ll gag ‘em.

    Just think of the ammunition an attack by the South Australian Liberals on renwables would give the Labor-Green industrial saboteurs. Shorten would make mincemeat of Malcolm or the contradiction, and what’s his name Weatherdill would have a field day as well.

    Conclusion: the Liberal incompetents in South Australia have already lost. The people of South Australia are going to be screwed. Industry in South Australia will continue to decline, probably at a much faster rate. And finally, the Australian tax-payers are going to be picking up an ever increasing tab for the dole and other handouts as the unemployment rate in South Australia goes ballistic.

    Let them eat crow.

    Here’s three recipes they can start with:

    http://bertc.com/subfive/recipes/threecrows.htm

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    • #
      Sceptical Sam

      “or” = on.

      But you’d already worked that out, eh? :-)

      10

    • #
      GD

      Will the local Libs (the opposition) have the spine to stand up and speak the truth and make this election about energy and climate, or will they pander #metoo, and lose the unloseable?

      It’s the same here in Victoria. No matter how destructively socialist the Andrews government gets, the invisible opposition says nothing, content to stay on the payroll as the opposition.

      90

  • #
    MudCrab

    What is really depressing is this survey result has come as a surprise to people here in SA.

    As I mentioned in an earlier thread, a few weeks ago I was hit up by one of those phone surveys with automated push button replies. The questions were clearly based around the seat of Adelaide but apart from that I do not know who commissioned the survey.

    First question:- What is the most important election issue for you?

    Four choices. None were electricity prices.

    Our Ruling Class honestly has no idea any more.

    211

    • #
      Sceptical Sam

      Muddy,

      If you don’t ask the question, you’ll not get the answer you don’t want to hear.*

      *Old Irish saying.

      110

      • #
        OriginalSteve

        From Yes Minister:

        Sir Humphrey at his finest…..

        “Bernard, never hold an inquiry into anything you dont already know the answer to”

        30

  • #
    TdeF

    “free, cheap and clean”

    Free? Coal is free. Thousands of windmills paid by RET taxes on everyone else in the country. Beggar thy neighbour. Then when someone actually gets free energy, the windmills are owned overseas and we pay a premium for every gust. Overseas.

    Cheap? Wind is the most expensive form of energy in the world. All subsidized by taxes on the real power which keeps Australia working, coal.

    Clean? 300Kg of Neodymium per windmill. Thousands of tons of heavy metal exclusively in South Australia. Tens of thousands of tons of steel to build them. The disposal problems in a decade will be immense. The cost in energy to build the windmills far exceed any savings in energy and of course, we have to burn coal and gas inefficiently to cover the holes in the wind.

    Solar is every bit as bad and would be banned for heavy metals, Cadmium, Mercury if not made exempt from environmental controls because ‘solar is free’. No, it isn’t.

    Free. No. Cheap. Hardly. Clean. You must be kidding. Wind and solar, the greatest ripoff in Australia’s history and it all goes overseas, except for AGL shareholders and directors and Elon Musk. Then you have to count the billions of SA taxes which go to buy diesel generators and compensate businesses while every business is forced to run on diesel.

    Jay Weatherill, the man who could not care less.

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    • #
      Reed Coray

      Isn’t being both “free” and “cheap” an oxymoron–or if not that, at least redundant?

      We (skeptics) claim the cost of electricity in SA is high.

      As I understand it, the SA government claims the cost of electricity in SA is “cheap” bordering on being free.

      Both can’t simultaneously be true unless “high” and “cheap” are synonyms. In Alice In Wonderland and in today’s world where words mean what the speaker/writer wants them to mean, I guess that is possible; but if so, meaningful communication is a thing of the past.

      20

  • #
    cedarhill

    And thus proof Darwin was right all along given the nature of the Aussie voters.

    50

  • #
    pat

    11 Dec: ABC: Heavy snow disrupts road, air travel in UK, northern Europe
    By Nick Dole in London, wires
    Airports, railways and roads have shut down in the United Kingdom, as the country deals with a heavy dumping of snow.
    About 30 centimetres of snow fell in some parts, with Wales and the Midlands bearing the brunt.
    Britain’s Met Office said there was an “amber weather warning”, urging particular caution across central England.
    There have been closures at Birmingham Airport, along with Luton and Stansted which service London.
    Dozens of flights from Heathrow were also cancelled or delayed and many of the main train lines and London’s underground were disrupted…

    Authorities at Frankfurt Airport, Germany’s busiest, warned passengers to expect delays while dozens of ice vehicles and trucks moved snow from runways…
    Meanwhile, in the Netherlands, a “code orange” weather warning was issued for most of the country, with delays expected on roads and at airports…
    http://www.abc.net.au/news/2017-12-11/snow-disrupts-road-air-travel-in-england-wales/9245302

    11 Dec: Daily Mail: ‘Get a grip, UK!’: Britain buckles under just six inches of snow with 50,000 passengers stranded by cancelled flights, 4,500 homes without power, 2,300 schools shut and dozens of gridlocked roads
    ‘Black Monday’ today with more snow due and swathes of ice on the roads as temperatures drop to -12.2C
    2,300 schools across Britain closed including 500 in Wales, 400 in Birmingham and 300 in Staffordshire
    50,000 British Airways passengers stranded after dozens of flights were cancelled at London Heathrow
    Chiltern Railways, CrossCountry, Great Western, and Virgin Trains have all been hit by bad weather today
    4,500 homes remain without power in UK after engineers worked through the night to try to restore it
    Met Office has issued weather warning for ice in the UK and more snow is forecast, especially in Midlands
    More than a foot of snow fell in Mid Wales yesterday while other areas have seen six inches on the ground
    By Mark Duell and Martin Robinson
    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-5166451/Now-BLACK-MONDAY-Melted-snow-turns-deadly-ice.html

    20

    • #
      Mall

      Climate change has a much closer correlation to sunspots. We have had lowest no. since maunder minimum. We have probably now entered the next mini ice age.

      21

      • #
        AndyG55

        A lot of energy (from the sun, not CO2) still in the oceans though..

        It may take a while for the cooling trend to properly kick in.

        One could say that the oceans are one big battery ;-)

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      • #
        el gordo

        Mall the science is not settled on the approaching mini ice age, some believing its the global cooling tipping point, but probably no worse than the 1950s and 1960s.

        Following on from Andy, we know that the Southern Ocean is now cooling and we are dutifully informed its because of CO2.

        10

  • #
    pat

    10 Dec: Daily Caller: Michael Bastasch: Jerry Brown Blames Fires On Global Warming. Here’s Why That’s Insane
    California Governor Jerry Brown said the wildfires ravaging the greater Los Angeles area are part of a “new normal” residents can expect due to man-made global warming.
    “This is kind of the new normal,” said Brown, a Democrat, on Saturday while touring Ventura County neighborhoods wrecked by the Thomas Fire, that is already one of the largest in state history.
    “With climate change, some scientists are saying that Southern California is literally burning up,” Brown said, according to CNN. “So we have to have the resources to combat the fires and we also have to invest in managing the vegetation and forests … in a place that’s getting hotter.”

    Brown’s statements, though ominous, aren’t in line with the scientific consensus. The latest National Climate Assessment report put a “low” to “medium” confidence on claims global warming was making wildfires worse across the western U.S.
    Wildfires could increase in severity in the coming decades, but parsing out the driving factors behind fire trends is complicated, since so much of it depends on land management policies and year-to-year variations in temperature and rainfall…

    Despite this, environmental activists and news outlets have eagerly linked the wildfires to man-made warming. For example, Rolling Stone published a lengthy piece titled “California’s Climate Emergency,” referring to the fires…
    http://dailycaller.com/2017/12/10/jerry-brown-blames-fires-on-global-warming-heres-why-thats-insane/

    The Latest: California governor: Fires are ‘new reality’
    ABC America News-9 Dec. 2017

    7 Dec: Long Beach California Press Telegram: How do wildfires start? Usually with people
    By Liset Marquez Updated 9 Dec
    This week’s explosion of fire activity in Southern California may have many wondering: How do wildfires start?
    In short, by humans, says John Keeley, who has been researching fire records from the past 100 years to determine the historical causes of fires in the state.

    During Santa Ana winds one of the most common causes is power lines being blown down. Another is arson.
    “Humans are the only sources of fires during Santa Ana winds,” said Keeley, a research ecologist with United States Geological Survey. “You don’t get lightning during Santa Ana wind conditions. Humans are responsible for all the fires, either directly or through the power lines.”

    According to Cal Fire statistics, seven of the top 20 most destructive California wildfires were caused by power lines or arson. Another seven on that list are still under investigation or undetermined.
    “A lot of arson-ignited fires occurs under Santa Ana wind conditions because I suppose the arsonist sees that as an opportunity to create a really big fire,” he said by phone Thursday afternoon.
    As for other causes reported by CalFire and the U.S. Forest Service, Keeley said his research has found…READ ON

    ***What’s not a factor?
    Climate change, Keeley said.
    He said climate change would only figure in California’s more heavily forested landscapes in the state.
    Looking at 100 years of climate data and fire data for the state, “in Southern California we could not find any relationship between climate and fire,” he said. “We believe the reason is, every single year it’s hot enough and dry enough for a big fire.”…
    Which means it’s outside factors that determine a big wildfire.
    “That’s usually people igniting fires under bad conditions,” he said.
    http://www.presstelegram.com/2017/12/07/how-does-a-wildfire-start-with-people/

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  • #
    pat

    9 Dec: Pasadena Star News: Brian Day: Fire officials: Pasadena brush fire is arson – the third Southern California case this week
    The Pasadena case is the third arson or attempted arson reported in recent days — one happened Friday night in Anaheim and a second blaze was reported in Irwindale — as much of Southern California was shrouded under the smoke of multiple, massive wildfires…
    Anaheim residents helped police detain a man who authorities say was spotted trying to set fires near the Anaheim Hills Festival shopping center at 6 p.m. Friday, authorities said. No active fires were reported in the area at the time.
    And police in Irwindale arrested a 33-year-old Azusa man Wednesday on suspicion of arson after he was seen fleeing from the origin point of a nearly 1-acre brush fire near Lario Park in Irwindale…

    8 Dec: San Diego Union Tribune: J. Harry Jones: Investigation is underway for cause of Lilac fire in San Diego County
    “I don’t know what the cause of the fire was, but there were no power lines and there were no lightning strikes,” said Polito, who was handling media calls about the Lilac Fire Friday.
    San Diego Gas & Electric Co. issued a statement Friday saying its equipment was not at fault…
    One common cause of roadside fires is exhaust embers from a backfiring vehicle. Other causes have been arson or discarded, lit cigarette butts…

    A number of wildland arsonists have been responsible for fires over the past few decades — some who do nothing more than throw lit paper from their windows. Others have used simplistic arson devices, sometimes designed to delay ignition for a few minutes until the suspect has left the area.
    One of the first things investigators do is search for devices or butts at the point of origin.
    Usually, arsonists start fires on the sides of roads where there is little or no traffic and the chance of them being spotted are slight…

    Investigators are usually able to determine a cause, though the official reports can take months or even years to complete. Such reports can carry huge legal implications, both criminally and in civil court.
    Sometimes, however, a cause goes down forever as “unknown.”
    http://www.sandiegouniontribune.com/news/wildfire/sd-no-cause-fire-20171208-story.html

    6 Dec: CBS San Francisco: Suspect Arrested In Lake Berryessa Arson Fires
    A 59-year-old Napa woman has been arrested for allegedly lighting wildland fires around the north end of Lake Berryessa, authorities announced Wednesday.
    Cal Fire said Debra Ann Windholz was being held in Napa County Jail on $500,000 bail for eleven counts of arson to forest land…

    6 Dec: ABC7: Suspect arrested for setting Van Nuys palm tree on fire, dancing amid red-flag conditions
    The suspect was spotted dancing after lighting the fire.
    The blaze damaged not just the tree but nine vehicles in the area.
    Police officers and firefighters responded quickly, extinguished the fire and were able to arrest the suspect, Carranza said on Twitter…

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  • #
    pat

    11 Dec: Bloomberg: China’s Anti-Pollution Efforts Get a Reality Check
    With assistance by Emma O’Brien, Dan Murtaugh, Alfred Cang, and Feifei Shen
    China’s efforts to tackle air pollution are getting a reality check, with some regions told to revert to burning coal after shortages of natural gas left people without heating amid freezing winter temperatures.
    Officials in China’s frigid northern provinces were ordered to prioritize keeping citizens warm and areas that hadn’t yet converted fully to gas were permitted to burn coal for heating, state media reported last week, citing a statement from the Ministry of Environmental Protection. Beijing, which reportedly stopped using coal for heating and power in March, asked a plant to restart its coal-fired units because of gas shortages, Caixin magazine said on Saturday…

    Chinese have taken to social media to vent their frustrations, with some claiming their coal-fired heaters were dismantled and that elderly people and children were suffering from the cold. Even state media has spoken out, with the China Daily saying in an editorial last week that local officials were being too hasty in implementing the gas-for-coal drive…
    Multiple calls by Bloomberg News to the ministry weren’t answered…

    But industry may get caught up in the scramble to make sure households have enough heating. On Monday, China National Petroleum Corp., the main gas supplier to the north, said it was reducing supplies to petrochemical industries and that other industrial users will also gradually see supply declines as they divert more of the fuel for residential use…
    https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2017-12-10/freezing-cities-force-china-to-ease-anti-pollution-curbs-on-coal

    PICS: 2 Dec: Aljazeera: Winter weather comes early to Europe
    A look at some of the very cold conditions sweeping the continent.
    Snow has hit the Pyrenees and other parts of northern Spain and Portugal…
    Snow spread across much of Poland, including Kakopane, in the south…
    An active weather front has brought snow to many areas, and is still producing snow over the Baltic States and western Russia…
    The snow is excellent news for the European ski industry, with an early start to the season for most areas. Many resorts have all lifts open and powder snow is in abundance…
    Heavy snowfall in Hungary the Kekestro Mountain recording more than one metre…
    Eastern France including the Alps has seen a lot of early season snow – good news for the ski industry…
    The French island of Corsica has seen snow…
    http://www.aljazeera.com/indepth/inpictures/winter-weather-early-europe-171202074149166.html

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  • #
    Michael Reed

    I’ve said this time and time before on this blog site Australia is definitely now going to
    head into a recession .The absolute nonsense and hubris about successive growth
    over however many economic quarters— our economy has been growing is going to end with a thud .How
    can a developed country damage its energy security and energy sector and not face
    the consequences .We have a ridiculous housing bubble in the eastern states of Australia
    .A very large number of households under significant mortgage stress and probably an even
    Larger number of households unable to meet quarterly energy bills .My question is who
    right now (and I mean “right now”)is going to fix? change this enevitable disaster—I’m very
    very sorry BUT ITS NO ONE !!!! So it’s face the consequences Australia no longer ever
    the lucky country!!(I’ve never relied on luck in my life)Cheers Mike

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    • #
      el gordo

      My question is who right now (and I mean “right now”)is going to fix?

      Off the top of my head, I nominate Xi Jinping.

      10

  • #
    Lionell Griffith

    I read this thread, my heart aches. It didn’t have to happen. It is nothing but off the charts insanity. Things are not even close to being in an adjacent parallel universe. Yet it is actually the here and now for you.

    The situation is, in their words, unsustainable. It may be possible to change things for the better but don’t bet on it. No matter what, it is going to hurt. The difference between hitting the bottom and starting to recover is rapidly shrinking to the vanishing point.

    I had a California I could leave and go elsewhere a bit more sane. Where to you go to find some sanity?

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    • #
      Rereke Whakaaro

      What if you were the only sane person, in the asylum?

      What if the propagandists (for that is what they are), brain-washed the young and impressionable, with messages that were woven into their functional schooling?

      The idea was very successful in Mao’s China. I can see no reason for it not to work, just as well, and with similar results, in the west.

      Social media in the west, is just a “high-tech” version of Mao’s Little Red Book. But infinitely more dynamic.

      We are all being programmed by our own technology. And here I am, telling you this, using the only means at my disposal, and trusting to fortune that you actually receive, and understand, the ideas embedded in messages that I send.

      Ironic, don’t you think?

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      • #
        Lionell Griffith

        Quite ironic. At least we have that to hold us for a while. Don’t know how long though. The politicians want to take it over and keep such as we off in a quiet corner. They don’t like it that we expose them for who and what they are.

        A long time ago, I thought the search for extraterrestrial intelligence was absurd. Shouldn’t we find intelligent life on earth before we start searching on distant planets?

        At that time, I started my search for intelligent life on earth. Eventually, I found some. Not much but enough to stay mostly sane.

        Interestingly, some of it was found on this blog. Other examples were found in the Santa Ynez Valley in the Central Coast area of California. A lot of that was horse people and horses. I found horses more intelligent than many people I have encountered and a lot more honest if you know how to listen to them.

        Eventually, I had to move back to my property near Chicago, Illinois. There is a spark of intelligent life here but no horses that I can talk to.

        Thank goodness I still have the internet. I am not all that mobile to be able to search far and wide without it. Something about 80 year old knees that get in the way. Plus I know too much about the medical industry to be comfortable with going for knee replacements while I can still walk.

        PS: At least I can program the technology and make some of it safe to use.

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        • #
          Serp

          Thanks Lionell for reminding me of Lemuel Gulliver’s houyhnhnms.

          Today’s UNIPCC would have slotted in very well at the Academy of Laputa where one of the projectors was extracting sunbeams from cucumbers.

          What we’re up against was pretty well nailed by Vonnegut in Harrison Bergeron (you can read it here http://www.tnellen.com/westside/harrison.pdf).

          I doubt I’ll live long enough to see the end of the decarbonization fiscal scam for surely it has another thirty odd years to run before the truly ruinous cost of decommissioning becomes apparent.

          It can only be people with the older formal scientific education deeply rooted in their minds that, if not immediately then eventually, see through the decarbonization advocacy. Unfortunately we’re dying like flies (not to mention our diminishing vigour).

          30

        • #
          Annie

          That’s an excellent comment Lionell Griffith. Thank you.

          20

          • #
            Lionell Griffith

            You are quite welcome.

            I am glad I am alive and able to write it.

            Thank you for liking it.

            20

            • #
              OriginalSteve

              I concur about horses and horse people…horse people are infintely practical and down to earth. Some people are the horses head, the others…..well….

              00

      • #
        el gordo

        ‘Ironic, don’t you think?’

        The difference between us and the Chinese dictatorship is that we can still express an opinion on the interwebs but they cannot, so we have the freedom of the new communication platform to bring about a revolution.

        40

      • #
        Greg Cavanagh

        I stopped watching the News about 10 years ago for that reason. I’m a lot happier with life now, except that people I meat are insane, but I’m happy at least :) .

        I recommend everybody leave the news and the sit-coms out of their life. Movies and cartoons are ok, the rest is junk.

        If you’re into healthy eating, take it a step further and get into a healthy mind attitude also. Leave the junk programming to the junkies.

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  • #
    yarpos

    Meanwhile the media reports AGL “going green” buy shutting Lidell, and running peaking gas generators to cream of the max returns from a grid they help destabilise. The media even talk about a battery installation as if it a generator, adding it to the renewables list. It just goes on and on.

    200

    • #
      Dennis

      Meanwhile Goldman Sachs warns us that electricity wholesale price is about to rise fifty per cent in coming years.

      70

    • #
      Dennis

      I would like to see a list of who’s who in the “renewable” energy businesses from installations back to equipment suppliers, and how they are all related.

      Including their friends in political circles.

      80

    • #
      Annie

      There is a meeting of the local regress group on Saturday to discuss the installation of a solar micro grid. I wonder how they manage the planned ‘independence’ from the national grid during weeks of winter cloud and fog here? I don’t see how batteries can do the job!

      60

      • #
        ROM

        Euan Mearn’s on his and Roger Andrews “Energy Matters “site discussed Microgrids in their last post. “Virtual energy”

        Their conclusions are fairly scathing as it appears that the Microgrid promoters expect to be able to use the standard, public payed for Grid network to carry out energy transactions between the members of a Microgrid and collect the profits from running that Microgrid without contributing anything towards the cost of running and maintaining the Grid itself .

        In short as is so much the case with each and everyone of all these new energy system proposals, such Micro grids will be if the promoters aren’t shot down and fast, are purely and completely parasitical on the current fossil fuel built Grid and the people who pay for it.

        Renewable energy in the form of wind and solar are entirely parasitical on the fossil fuel energy production system and its grid.

        The simply cannot operate without fossil fuel or hydro back up and even more so cannot even exist without access to a grid built by, serviced by and paid for by the fossil fuel / coal / gas generators and their long term consumers.

        Euan Mearns goes a bit further and tears into a proposal to use Blockchain technology to keep track of the energy interchange and finances on a Microgrid run no doubt at a considerable profit by some obscure outfit that is as is happening everywhere in the energy trading industry as it did in the grains industry 50 years ago, where a large number of as it turned out, very devious groups and individuals managed to interpose themselves between producers and consumers of grain raking off a very considerable profit for themselves and leaving no more money for the producer [ and often a lot of heartache and pain as the conmen skipped town with the money,] than he / she always had despite grandiose promises to increase producers profits.

        I see the identical thing happening in the energy industry where all sorts of devious and shady individuals and outfits at are at present busily interposing themselves between energy producers and energy consumers with the little guy, the domestic and small business consumers of energy being ripped off to an incredible extent by these same carpet bagging energy procurers who are generally of the lowest ethics and moralities.

        Incidently on the unbreakable encrypted Blockchain technology that is becoming the fashionable way to go in everything from banking to energy trading, the Bitcoin Blockchain is now calculated with only 20 million users and 100 million transactions, every one of which is a part of a chain of encrypted transactions that is stored on every computer in the system , now consumes as much power as all the countries in Africa, leaving out South Africa.

        I have suspected for some time that the blockchain technology is such a consumer of power and memory that it has some very significant limits on its use which will prevent it from becoming a universal and uncorruptible system of recording trade transactions covering no more than a limited number of trades .
        It seems that blockchain technology will be unaffordable in its rapidly increasing energy use, every transaction in every computer from the get go to the current trade has to be verified which with the few hundred thousand / million trades per day / week / month / year would make both the computer’s energy use and the memory required unaffordable.

        That limiting criteria would no longer apply to blockchain technology if data recording through the DNA chemical structure is perfected.

        Such data recording via the almost limitless data carried by the structure of DNA has already been achieved under laboratory conditions.

        Theoretically all of the wolrd’s current data and knowledge could be contained in an average sized room if it was transcribed onto DNA.

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    • #
      Mall

      Lies, damn lies and AGL.

      40

  • #
    Jonesy

    I cannot say but some companies are doing batshit crazy things to ensure the lights stay on and the mill running.

    10

  • #

    South Australia is simply a renewable laughing-stock.

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  • #
    Greg in NZ

    “A climate expert is warning a downside to the brilliant early-summer weather is the effect it could have next year on electricity supply… Victoria University climate scientist James Renwick said this could be a worry.” Pleasant, calm, ‘fine’ Spring weather for a month, translated via googoo-gaga-Speak, means: Worry! Bad! Omen! Panic! Oh My Codpiece!

    “The most recent figures show gas and coal produced 23 percent of New Zealand’s electricity in the past week, compared with a 15 percent average.” Thank goodness for coal when the rains don’t come, the sun don’t shine, the wind don’t blow…

    http://www.radionz.co.nz/news/national/345991/big-dry-bad-omen-for-winter-power-supply-scientist

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  • #
    ROM

    In all the fulminations above remember that it was the ELITE in politics, academia, the highly paid, low work ethic, ignorant of the real world inner city green blob , the leftist media and the bureacracies and bureacrats who have IMPOSED the whole of what is fast becoming the single greatest societal and national economy destroying debacle seen in our modern western history.

    A deliberately imposed debacle by the Elites that has taken the single most important element that forms the basis of a modern civilisation , that of a totally reliable, relatively cheap, relatively simple in construct and simple to understand energy supply system that had been developed over a century and quarter into one of civilisation’s most reliable systems that through a vast Grid network was able to cater for a supply of cheap and reliable power to every individual, household, business and industry in the nation.

    The Elites of our society without ANY authority or any discussion or any debate at any level within the entire nation’s peoples have taken upon themselves to forcibly change that formerly so reliable and cheap energy supply system into an unpredictable, immensely costly and ever more unaffordable, intermittent, potentially life destroying and life disabling, business and industry destroying power system that has now been re-constructed so as to quite knowingly and deliberately enable wealth to be forcibly taken from the poorest and least well off in the land and then be transferred to the richest and wealthiest and most corrupt in the land, those same Renewable Energy owners and operators and investors and etc.

    Nowhere, NEVER was the populace as a whole ever Asked by the Elites in politics, academia, the media, the bureaucracies if they would accept the concept and realities of an intermittent, unpredictable ever more costly and ever less affordable renewable energy power system to become the energy source of the nation and of its job creating businesses and industry and of their own personal lives.

    There is an very old adage in aviation which is applicable to our power generation and supply system and which states;

    If you want your new design of an aeroplane to fly then “simplify and add lightness.”

    We had the lightness and the simplicity in our power supply and distribution network for nearly a century past but then the Elites in their arrogance, in their almost universal ignorance of power generation realities and technologies in the real world outside of their self imposed ivory towers and arrogant in their unparalleled hubris decided that they and they alone would “Save the Planet” , from what we are yet to find out with any certitude, and in doing so we are now all on the road to potentially destroying the highly successful civilisation that has been the outcome of centuries of development.

    A civilisation on which the Elites themselves have become so reliant to continue maintain their status and wealth and which they seemingly are quite content to be see destroyed today if it meets their criteria for whatever will “save the planet.”

    And the test for the Elites true levels of intellectual vacuousness and absolute arrogance is their seemingly singular failure to realise that they too will be destroyed along with the rest of society if the Grid and our energy supply system collapses into total chaos and destruction in the next few years.

    71

    • #
      OriginalSteve

      Watch how the peasants scurry about, time poor gazing at thier electronic leashes….staying “informed” ( ….ROFL…)

      Or how they have to ride bikes because parking and everything else is so expensive….but because its good for you apparently…while only the elite can afford to drive…and park…and have electricity….

      Its the new Fuedalism…..brough to you by the number 666 and the UN.

      20

  • #
    PeterS

    I’m starting to think we should do what Trump is doing. We should build a wall around SA to stop the inevitable mass migration out of there once their economy heads the way of Mexico.

    61

  • #

    No matter what politicians might say when it comes to electrical power generation and supply, there is only the ONE imperative, and that’s to keep the power on, no matter what. Everything else is secondary to that, everything, and everything else is just spin, to tell the people what they want to hear.

    And when it comes to actually keeping the power on, that only means one thing, here in Australia anyway, and that’s coal fired power. When you need large scale power to keep things operating, well, to keep the State and the Country running, then at all costs the power cannot be allowed to go off, no matter what.

    The people can be asked whatever questions politicians want to direct at them, but there’s only the one question that really counts, and that is ….. Would you prefer the electrical power to be ….. ON or OFF.

    You know the answer.

    That is the imperative, to keep the power on.

    Currently, at around 10.30AM Tuesday Morning 12Dec2017, the 5 States under AEMO control are consuming 23,000MW of power.

    Of that total, 21,200MW is coming from fossil fuels, so 92.2% from fossil fuels.

    Hydro is at 1500MW and both wind and solar are at 450MW, so wind and solar re at a tick under 2%.

    Now, of that 21200MW from fossil fuels, 17600MW is coming from coal fired power alone, so coal fired power by itself is delivering 77% of the total consumption. Of the total 49 Units at 16 power plants across that AEMO area, only 3 of those Units are offline, incidentally, all owned by AGL, one each at Bayswater, Liddell, and Loy Yang A. So, that leaves a total Nameplate on line of 21340, so with them supplying 17600MW, that’s a Capacity Factor of 82.5%.

    When the power is required so politicians can (literally) save their jobs, they can spruik all they want about renewables, but they NEED coal fired power.

    They can ask all the questions they want to ask as a diversion, but there’s only one question.

    ON or OFF.

    And here, ON means coal fired power.

    Tony.

    221

    • #
      PeterS

      100% in agreement. The problem is much of the public disagrees. I had a BBQ yesterday with many people and most of them believed in the global warming scare, so much so they want the government to speed up the move to renewables. This is despite some of them complaining about climbing electricity prices. One was from Switzerland complaining that one of their glaciers is melting too fast and blamed it on global warming. I didn’t bother to debate with him as I knew it would not end well and I didn’t want to spoil the party and be hated by everyone. It’s a delusion, almost a mental disorder that’s already spread too far and wide. That’s why I truly believe the only way we will ever get off this train that’s heading straight for the cliff’s edge is to have one or two major scares on the way. Until then the train is heading at full speed to the cliff’s edge.

      161

    • #
      robert rosicka

      One heck of a juggling act going on right now with AEMO trying to keep Victoriastan and NSW going , also noted Vic is showing zero wind generation and SA only 170 mw.

      80

    • #
      Robber

      Tony, tomorrow around 5pm after a day of temperatures in the high 30′s in Vic/SA, AEMO is forecasting peak demand of 31,300 MW and spot prices in Vic/SA over $10,000. Current demand is around 24,000 MW so it will be interesting to see what additional generation comes on line tomorrow afternoon. Unfortunately Anero.id hasn’t been updated with the latest list of approved generators, but it shows output of 24,000 MW to meet demand of 24,000 MW. Interestingly, NEMWEB shows current generation of over 35,000 MW to meet that demand of 24,000 MW. Are power losses in transmission the difference?

      50

      • #

        I would question that figure of 35000MW.

        I can see at the AEMO site, they have (at around 2PM Tuesday) total power generation from all sources of 24,500MW.

        Keep in mind that $100000? per MWH for power costs would be an Instantaneous spike, and while instantaneous, no one will ever get that amount. Power cost is averaged across the previous half hour, and every power generating entity gets that averaged cost for whatever they supply, and for that entity which led to that instantaneous spike will be supplying only a small amount of that half hour’s power, and will be paid at that averaged (and much lower) cost.

        Tony.

        40

        • #
          Robber

          Yes, that 35,000 MW is puzzling and seems to be in error – supposedly it is taken from AEMO data. Must be an error in whoever compiles the aggregates, because the individual stations are consistent with Anero.id, although Anero.id is missing some recently added stations – Andrew Miskelly? – hopefully whoever compiles the data (mwheeler?) can correct and update it.

          And as I watch AEMO update supply and demand, as the temperature climbs in SA they have started to rely on 200 MW of Vic imports to meet 3pm demand of 1880 MW (and Vic is receiving 500 MW from NSW and 265 MW from Tas) to meet demand. SA peak demand is forecast to be 2360 MW at 6pm. SA wind is providing just 100 MW. It will be interesting to see where the extra 500 MW comes from, as the power cord from Vic can supply about an extra 400 MW, provided there is capacity in Vic.

          Tomorrow afternoon will be even more interesting as Vic experiences temperatures above 36 degrees and Vic forecast demand rises from a peak today of 6072 MW to 8640 MW tomorrow. A test for the big battery and those shiny new diesel generators.

          40

          • #
            Robber

            Update, Vic now sending 420 MW to keep the lights and aircon on in SA. No sign of the battery or diesels kicking in.

            50

  • #
    TdeF

    You almost have to be grateful to the long suffering South Australians, leading the world in renewable energy and giving us such a clear picture of what is in store for everyone. While Jay Weatherill and his energy Minister Koutsantonis show us just how bad politicians can be, South Australia is an example to the world. Even world famous Elon Musk made the big effort to pick up a lazy $100million for a gigantic pile of phone batteries which would last 4.5 second when needed.

    Then our faux conservative Prime Minister, not to be left behind, has decided pumping water uphill (at a massive public cost) is the way to go, a few more lazy billions of borrowed money. Now that Energy is a National matter, not left to the states, any number of games are being played out where no one in particular is responsible for ensuring that everyone has cheap, reliable power. It is all someone else’s fault.

    The justification for all this spending and destruction? Climate Change. Except that 350 full time scientists working years for the CSIRO could not find it. Another $4Bn for nothing.

    As we still struggle to pay interest and principal over 25 years for 4 new giant desalination plants which have never been used and were not needed ($100Bn on credit) while refusing to build dams or explore for more gas or extract the gas and coal we own, we are an example to the world of the failure of Western democracy and politicians to look after the people.

    So how will Weatherill and Turnbull be remembered? What will be their legacy? Thousands of rusting windmills, giant desalination plants rotting and an uphill water system which will never be used because it never made economic sense. Archeologists will marvel at the waste and assume that there was religious purpose, which was right.

    Strangely Turnbull is a rich banker and Weatherill an economics graduate, which shows that the first job of a banker is really to look after themselves and their friends. There is no second job.

    130

    • #
      Chad

      Im with you on the issues Tdf, but you do yourself a disservice by exaggerating and using incorrect facts.
      SAs battery did not cost $100m or even half that .
      Whilst we do not know exactly the costs involved we can get a good estimate, from known facts.
      At current commercial rates it would have cost $40m max , installed. …But Musk offered to share that cost anyway as it was an unproven project proposal. So the likely revenue to Musk was probably $20 or less.
      And Desal plants..?? ….well i dont know what the other states paid for theirs, but i believe NSW installed one of the bigger facilities, and that was reported at a final cost of $2.0 bn
      So yes, there has been a lot of public money thrown around with little benefit, there is no advantage in exaggerating the numbers to prove a point.

      15

      • #
        Dennis

        The deadline is an unmissable one for Tesla’s head Elon Musk, who bet the Atlassian’s co-founder Mike Cannon-Brookes over Twitter that his company can build and install the unit power in 100 days, or the $US50 million ($64million) system is free.

        The system is part of the state’s wider $550 million plan to power South Australia.

        SHARE

        10

        • #
          Graeme#4

          Remember that Tesla signed the contract late in the installation process, and the 100 days only started from contract signing. At that time the installation was well underway.

          10

        • #
          Chad

          No big deal……. but i wouldnt take two billionairs throwing dollar comments at each other over twitter as a firm costing.
          But Teslas Powepack online quote system (remember Tesla work direct , not through sales agents) had a system cost calculator that quoted the prices at us$400,000 /MWh , installed.
          But that was 2 years ago, and they have removed the calculator tool now, but more recent projects have reported costs of us$350,000/MWh for a small system……so i would be surprised if SA were paying even that much given the larger scale and the supposedly ever decreasing cost of batteries (Tesla practically halved the Power Wall price last year !)
          129MWH x usd$ 350,000 = usd $45m at most
          And then again there was Musk promising to split the cost with SA anyway .!

          00

          • #
            Sceptical Sam

            Cripes Sheik, where’ve you been?

            129MWH x usd$ 350,000 = usd $45m at most

            Do a conversion to $Aus for yourself and then look again at Dennis’ comment.

            What $5.0 Million between comrades?

            00

        • #
          Sceptical Sam

          All that’s OK Graeme No 4 but the relevant piece of Dennis’ comment is:

          ….or the $US50 million ($64million) system….

          Which puts Chad’s assertion right where it needs to be. Up Scrubby Creek.

          https://youtu.be/DWfFFMcfEt4

          00

      • #
        TdeF

        Chad, the estimated total cost of the VIctorian Desalination plant, to be paid by around 2030 is around $28Billion. I do not know how NSW bought one for $2Bn. Then you have to pay for the water. For the Victorian one the Wikipeaid entry reads “Cost A$5.7 billion – A$19 billion”. Who knows?

        I have also read that with never ever financing, the total cost including 50 full time people for the lifetime of a non operating plant and interest and charges even for not producing water is closer to $28Billion. Are we being told? Even the freeways which were financed privately by tolls are still being tolled, even though the contract is expired. The toll operator and the government are sharing the income on roads owned by the public!

        As pointed out by Dennis below the bill for the battery is $64Million plus exchange costs perhaps $70million.
        It would be really good if governments would actually give the people some idea of what they are actually spending because the zeros on the end are impressive. Even the cost of maintaining stability the grid is going into the many millions, a cost no one would have paid if the Northern power station was kept running at a cost around $15Million per year.

        Bankers like to keep public utilities paying interest only, for decades. Governments like this, putting things on credit cards for another generation to pay. Possibly we the people do not own the desalination plants. Despite paying $6Bn a year for windmills and solar panels, we the people do not own them either unless you are a lucky owner who was given other people’s money so you could sell them your free power.

        As for the NSW desalination plant, “New South Wales desalination plant deal to cost consumers $10 billion over 50 years. ” That’s just the first result on a search. Hardly $2Billion. All borrowed money.

        So please find the ‘correct’ facts and present them. I have real trouble finding out what we are really paying for anything. Our State and Federal government are just borrowing as fast as they can, with a debt now over $500Billion and interest alone over $1Bn a week.

        50

        • #
          TdeF

          I also read that the SA government was subsidizing Port Pirie, foreign owned for hundreds of millions to stop them closing. All governments are subsidizing Alcoa in Portland, to produce aluminum unprofitably. Many hundreds of millions went to hide that Hazelwood was losing money and ready to close. How much State money and Federal money has been handed out without anyone knowing? How much is this Climate Change scare costing and the mad desire to shut what Tony from Oz says clearly is our major power source? Now AGL wants to increase profits by closing Liddell, for which it paid nothing.

          Not long ago, power was a state issue along with all minerals. Now we have AEMO and the entire system is out of control as states hide their real costs and subsidies and the RET rips into the profitability of coal based electricity producers, forcing them to close and forcing electricity prices up. Exactly as it is designed to do.

          As for desalination, we have just been told in Victoria to expect our water prices to double? Why? Is there a shortage? This is robbery.

          80

          • #
            Dennis

            And now the news that NSW Mount Piper power station is being switched from coal to garbage and considerably lower electricity output.

            60

        • #
          TdeF

          Actually with Federal bonds around 2%, make that $10Billion a year, roughly a billion a month in interest. Also set in $A so not subject to exchange rate, I hope. Plus additional borrowing which is around $50Bn a year or $1Bn a week. All very frightening, a country out of control with both political parties oblivious to debt. That’s what you get with a Banker as a PM. He loves debt, as does Bill Shorten.

          60

          • #
            TdeF

            The returned Labor Queensland government is facing an additional $80Billion in debt. Not Million, billion. We used to have a cycle in Australia where Labor spent and Liberals saved. Now both sides are spending money we do not have and shutting down what was built previously and which worked.

            As well as the Victorian Deslination plant, the Labor government forced an $800Million pipeline from Sugarloaf to the Goulburn through many properties against the will of all the farmers. Now unused and never needed. It was used once in the middle of a rainstorm to make the Goulburn flood much worse. The water had been booked six months before.

            It is cash which is flowing like water out of the country. Paying billions for foreign corporations to build and operate windmills which they own is not my idea of ‘free energy’.

            If we pay for the power generators, we should own them.

            50

        • #
          Chad

          Desal costs..
          You are looking at operating / mothballing costs, not capital costs.
          Operating costs are simply passed on to consumers in their water bills as part of the service / supply charges.
          NSW Desal plant cost $1.8 bn to build
          Qld (Gold Coast) cost $1.2 bn
          VIC cost $5.7bn
          Admittedly the whole episode was a fiasco compounded by incredibly extravagant deals for operational contractors to look after them….but you cannot project 50 years of future operational costs into a debt value today….nobody budgets 50 years ahead.

          00

          • #
            Sceptical Sam

            Admittedly the whole episode was a fiasco….

            Indeed it was. But not for the reasons you espouse.

            It is a fiasco that has been clearly sheeted home to the foolish fellow Flannery and his fellow alarmists who conned gullible governments into believing their snake-oil sales talk.

            There are no fools quite like green fools. And, Labor governments that are green behind the ears.

            20

            • #
              Chad

              ….But not for the reasons you espouse…..

              ???? But I didnt actually espouse any reasons ??….
              ..i said the whole episode was a fiasco……implying too many reasons to list !
              Flannery’s influence was certainly pivotal, but some of the decisions and direction taken subsequently defy comprehension

              10

      • #
        Graeme#4

        Forbes did quite a good job in estimating the true cost of the battery farm at $150m. However, SA may have paid considerably less.

        20

    • #
      ROM

      .
      TdeF. @ # 39

      Weatherill an economics graduate

      Maybe Pauline Hanson was really onto something here!
      And maybe “that” South Australian politician really proves her point in spades.

      I may be only a fish and chip shop lady, but some of these economists need to get their heads out of the textbooks and get a job in the real world.
      I would not even let one of them handle my grocery shopping.

      Pauline Hanson

      100

      • #
        TdeF

        Amazingly, Weatherill also dated Penny Wong. Not the brightest penny in the till.

        40

        • #
          robert rosicka

          Has anybody ever seen a big government produce something on budget ? There must be something but usually any project the govt have a hand in costs rise dramatically.
          How much did the big battery cost will probably always be a mystery but you can be sure of one thing any costs associated with building it in a hurry have been buried .

          50

          • #
            ROM

            A rule of thumb for local Victorian Council projects is to expect an average 40% cost over run, over and above the original budgeted amount for the project.

            As described to myself by our local council engineer a few years back.

            30

  • #
    Alice Thermopolis

    Late Angry Penguin, Max Harris, bless him, would be chuckling.

    He used to call SA The Terminal State.

    40

  • #
    pat

    11 Dec: ClimateChangeNews: Megan Darby: Belt and road countries could emit triple China’s carbon, warns official
    Top green finance official Ma Jun tells a conference in Paris that China wants international support to clean up its investments abroad
    China is seeking to clean up its overseas investments, a top green finance official told delegates at a conference in Paris on Monday, calling for international support.
    Ma Jun, a special adviser to the governor of the People’s Bank of China, acknowledged the scale of China’s environmental impact abroad.

    Beijing’s $900 billion “belt and road” initiative is building infrastructure across countries with three times China’s population, he noted. “If nothing is done… their emissions could be three times China’s emissions.”

    His mission is to “make sure Chinese investors are seeking green investments in the belt and road region,” Ma said, adding: “We are now seeking more international support to help this effort.”…
    A report by the Global Environment Institute identified 240 Chinese-backed coal projects in belt and road countries, notably India, Indonesia, Mongolia, Vietnam and Turkey.
    Critics say China’s green finance guidelines are looser than international standards, with some high-efficiency coal plants classed as “green”…
    Ma’s comments came at a gathering of sustainable investors and business representatives hosted by France’s economics ministry…

    ***In opening remarks to the meeting, French environment minister Nicolas Hulot cited Hurricane Harvey ***and ongoing wildfires in California as examples of the cost of inaction…

    The event comes a day ahead of president Emmanuel Macron’s One Planet Summit, which is also expected to focus heavily on finance…
    Fifty heads of state are due to attend and announce coalitions to address issues such as phasing out coal and reducing emissions from shipping. Private sector representatives include leaders from HSBC, Norges Bank and Calpers.
    http://www.climatechangenews.com/2017/12/11/belt-road-countries-emit-triple-chinas-carbon-warns-official/

    11 Dec: Washington Times: Valerie Richardson: California’s ‘new normal’ of winter wildfires doused by climate scientists
    That includes climate scientists such as University of Washington meteorologist Cliff Mass, who moved to extinguish the “now normal” narrative by arguing that the data “strongly suggests there is no credible evidence” that global warming is fueling this fall’s California coastal wildfires, and that claims to the contrary are “baseless, if not outright wrong.”
    “The bottom line of all this is that observations and the best scientific reasoning do NOT suggest that global warming is enhancing CA coastal wildfires through effects on temperature and precipitation,” Mr. Mass said Monday in a post on his weather and climate blog.
    He and others have pointed to the heavy precipitation earlier this year in California after five years of drought, which resulted in high vegetation growth that feeds the flames.

    “The destructive fires in California are not unexpected given the wet winter last year and resultant plant growth, followed by hot and dry weather since then in which the vegetation dried out,” University of Colorado Boulder meteorologist Roger A. Pielke Sr. said in an email.
    Then there is the human variable. Just as people are responsible for emitting carbon dioxide
    “An important issue is the extent humans have deliberately or inadvertently started the fires,” Mr. Pielke said. “If these were not started by people (including sparks from power lines), how many fires would there have been naturally? Probably none.”…

    Mr. Gore conveyed the same message last week during his Climate Reality Project’s “24 Hours of Reality,” listing “more destructive and widespread wildfires” as one of the consequences of climate change and specifically the damage caused by the Southern California blazes.
    “You know, events like this are now reported daily on the news with a terrifying drumbeat of regularity, the so-called ‘new normal,’ but it’s not normal at all, and we have to speak up and act,” said Mr. Gore.
    Fueling the narrative are stories such as those in The New York Times, headlined “In a Warming California, a Future of More Fire,” while InsideClimate News reported “As ‘Epic Winds’ Drive California Fires, Climate Change Fuels the Risk.”
    “Southern California fires are destructive and unprecedented — and a sign of things to come,” said an article in the Palm Springs Desert Sun…

    At the same time, evidence suggests that wildfires were worse before World War II.
    Bjorn Lomborg, president of the Copenhagen Consensus Center, compiled data from 1926-2017 showing that the acreage burned by U.S. wildfires has dropped fourfold since peaking in the 1930s, which was posted on the skeptics’ website Climate Depot.
    David B. South, emeritus forestry professor at Auburn University, told the Senate Environment and Public Works Committee in 2014 that eight of 10 “extreme megafires” in the lower 48 states since 1850 occurred during cooler-than-average decades…

    Mr. Mass pointed to a 2014 research paper in the American Geophysical Union journal showing that major coastal California wildfires have declined since 1984.
    “Totally consistent with everything I have described above,” Mr. Mass said. “Totally inconsistent with the claims of Governor Brown, some climate activists, and too many media outlets.”…
    https://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2017/dec/11/california-wildfires-new-normal-baseless-climate-s/

    20

  • #
    pat

    11 Dec: CarbonBrief: Daisy Dunne: UK wind power potential could fall by 10% by 2100 because of climate change
    Climate change could reduce the amount of wind available for power production in both the UK and the US, new research suggests.
    The arrival of weaker winds in the northern hemisphere as a result of global warming could cause average windfarm output to fall by around 10% in the UK and 14% in the US by 2100, the lead author tells Carbon Brief.
    Meanwhile, climate change could strengthen winds in parts of the southern hemisphere by the end of the century, the research finds, including in Australia, Brazil and South Africa.

    ***However, the study’s conclusions rely on models that have relatively low spatial resolution, other scientists tell Carbon Brief, which could affect the accuracy of the results…

    But climate change is likely to alter this global picture, says Prof Kristopher Karnauskas, a researcher from the University of Colorado Boulder and lead author of the new study published (LINK) in Nature Geoscience…
    https://www.carbonbrief.org/uk-wind-power-potential-could-fall-2100-because-climate-change

    10 Dec: Guardian: Adam Vaughan: EIB accused of marring EU climate goals with €1.5bn gas pipeline loan
    European Investment Bank expected to approve loan on day of summit to mark second anniversary of Paris deal
    The EU’s bank has come under fire for moves towards approving a €1.5bn (£1.3bn) loan for a gas pipeline from Azerbaijan to western Europe as the French president, Emmanuel Macron, prepared to hosted a climate change summit in Paris.
    Campaigners said the European Investment Bank, which is expected to support the transadriatic pipeline (TAP) with one of its largest ever loans on Tuesday, was acting against the EU’s climate change commitments.
    The bank has been privately urged by the EU’s climate and energy chiefs to approve the loan because the project’s backers “need to urgently secure adequate funding” as they enter a capital-intensive construction phase…

    But opponents of the plan said that approving the loan on the second anniversary of the Paris climate deal being agreed would be an affront to Europe’s efforts to curb carbon emissions.
    “The EU, which considers itself a climate action champion, simply cannot afford its financial arm, the EIB, supporting any component of the southern gas corridor,” said Xavier Sol, the director of Counter Balance, an alliance of European NGOs.
    The timing is sensitive for Macron, who has convened a special summit in Paris on Tuesday to explore ways of financing projects to tackle climate change…

    Today the pipeline consortium consists of BP, Azerbaijan gas firm Socar, Italy’s Snam, Belgium’ Fluxys, Spain’s Enagás and Switzerland’s Axpo…
    A spokesperson for the TAP said: “There is a strong market rationale for our project. Europe needs new sources of natural gas to meet its long-term demand, fuel economic recovery and diversify energy supply.
    “Gas – as the cleanest fossil fuels – will continue to play a key, strategic role in the energy mix for decades to come. Therefore, we remain confident that TAP will secure external funding for the project.”
    https://www.theguardian.com/business/2017/dec/10/eib-accused-eu-climate-goals-gas-pipeline-loan-european-investment-bank-summit-paris

    20

  • #
    pat

    you have to laugh:

    11 Dec: WaPo: Promising to ‘Make Our Planet Great Again,’ Macron lures 13 U.S. climate scientists to France
    By Steven Mufson
    Two years after the Paris climate accord was adopted, the French government is unveiling a list of 18 “laureates” — 13 of them working in the United States — who have won a “Make Our Planet Great Again” competition for research grants awarded for as long as five years. They include professors and researchers at Cornell University, Columbia University, Stanford University and other institutions.

    “For me, the chance to work on some very exciting science questions with my French colleagues and not be so dependent on the crazy stuff that goes on in Congress and with the current administration is honestly very attractive,” Louis A. Derry, a professor of Earth and atmospheric sciences at Cornell, said in an interview. “But it can be embarrassing to try and explain what is going on at home right now.”
    Derry lamented a “devaluing of science by this administration.”…

    The French government’s offer attracted 1,822 applications, nearly two-thirds of them from the United States. France’s research ministry pruned that to 450 “high-quality” candidates for long-term projects. A second round of grants will be awarded in the partnership with Germany…

    ***Corinne Le Quéré, a professor of climate change science and policy at Britain’s University of East Anglia and director of the Tyndall Center for Climate Change Research, helped the French government choose this round of grant winners…

    “I jumped at the promise of a five-year contract!” said Alessandra Giannini, a professor at Columbia University’s Earth Institute who studies the effects of warming oceans on Africa’s Sahel region.
    She saw Macron’s video and, weary of short-term grants and worried about growing budget pressures in the United States, applied…
    https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/energy-environment/wp/2017/12/11/promising-to-make-our-planet-great-again-macron-lures-13-u-s-climate-scientists-to-france/

    20

  • #
    pat

    meant to add the WaPo article re climate scientists is endless, and gives short bios on the US “climate scientists”.
    also should have noted: James McAuley in Paris and Chris Mooney in New Orleans contributed to this article.

    meanwhile, this COULD be a problem! lol.

    12 Dec: ClimateChangeNews: John Vidal: ‘Tsunami of data’ could consume one fifth of global electricity by 2025
    Billions of internet-connected devices could produce 3.5% of global emissions within ten years and 14% by 2040, new research will find
    The communications industry could use 20% of all the world’s electricity by 2025, hampering global attempts to meet climate change targets and straining grids as demand by power-hungry server farms storing digital data from billions of smartphones, tablets and internet-connected devices grows exponentially…

    “The situation is alarming,” said Andrae, who works for Chinese communications technology firm Huawei. “We have a tsunami of data approaching. Everything which can be is being digitalised. It is a perfect storm. 5G, [the fifth generation of mobile technology] is coming, IP [internet protocol] traffic is much higher than estimated and all cars and machines, robots and artificial intelligence are being digitalised, producing huge amounts of data which is stored in data centres.”…

    US researchers expect power consumption to triple in the next five years as one billion more people come online in developing countries, and the “internet of things”, driverless cars, robots, video surveillance and artificial intelligence grows exponentially in rich countries.
    “There will be 8.4bn connected things in 2017, setting the stage for 20.4bn internet of things (IoT) devices to be deployed by 2020,” says leading internet analyst firm Gartner…
    Global internet traffic will increase nearly threefold in the next five years says the latest Cisco Visual Networking Index, a leading industry tracker of internet use…

    “There is a real risk that it all gets out of control. Policy makers need to keep a close eye on this,” says Andrae.
    http://www.climatechangenews.com/2017/12/11/tsunami-data-consume-one-fifth-global-electricity-2025/

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    pat

    not everyone is stupid:

    12 Dec: EconomicTimesIndia: IANS: Global banks undermining Paris climate agreement goals, say reports
    The reports provide data exposing how between January 2014 and September 2017 big banks provided $630 billion in financing to the 120 top coal plant developers, and major institutional investors are currently investing close to $140 billion in the same companies.
    On the eve of the historic Paris Climate Change Agreement’s second anniversary, two new reports on Monday revealed how large banks and investors are actively undermining the climate goals by financing new coal-fired power plants.
    Investors from India account for six per cent of the institutional investments in coal plant developers…

    “With the Paris Agreement now in its second year, there is no excuse for banks and investors to support companies that are planning to build new coal-fired power plants, which fly in the face of the international commitments to limit global warming to 1.5 (degrees) C,” said Rainforest Action Network Senior Campaigner Jason Disterhoft in a statement.
    “The bottom-line is that we need an immediate halt to all coal infrastructure investment.” The reports, ‘Banks vs. the Paris Agreement’ and ‘Investors vs. the Paris Agreement’, launched by Rainforest Action Network, BankTrack, Urgewald, Friends of the Earth France and Re:Common at the Climate Finance Day in Paris, reports examine banks’ and investors’ involvement with the world’s top 120 coal plant developers…

    ***These companies are responsible for two-thirds of the new coal-fired power stations planned around the globe and aim to build over 550,000 MW — an amount equal to the combined coal fleets of India, the US and Germany.

    The ‘Banks vs. the Paris Agreement’ report says bank financing of these companies in the period from January 2014 to September 2017 involved $630 billion in lending and underwriting, with Chinese and Japanese banks responsible for 68 per cent of the total.
    In the two years since the Paris Agreement was signed, banks have provided $275 billion to the top 120 coal plant developers.

    Seventeen of the top 20 underwriters for bond and share issues of coal plant developers are Chinese banks, led by the Industrial and Commercial Bank of China which provided over $33 billion to coal plant developers through underwriting…

    The report ‘Investors vs the Paris Agreement’ identified 1,455 institutional investors with overall investments of almost $140 billion in the top 120 coal plant developers.
    The world’s largest investor in coal plant developers is the US-based investment giant BlackRock, which holds shares and bonds worth $11.5 billion in these companies.
    It’s followed by Japan’s Government Pension Investment Fund with investments of $7 billion and US investment manager Vanguard, which holds investments of $5.7 billion in coal power expansion companies.

    All in all, investors from the US account for 37 per cent of the institutional investments in coal plant developers.
    Next in line are the EU and Japanese investors (13 per cent each), Malaysian investors (nine per cent), Chinese investors (seven per cent) and Indian investors (six per cent).

    On Tuesday, two years after the Paris Agreement was adopted, heads of state, governments, civil society and the private sector are gathering in Paris to drive forward climate action…

    Britain-based charity Christian Aid said finances for the poorer countries were essential if the UN accord was to succeed.
    “It’s great that President Macron is getting the world together to celebrate the two-year anniversary of the Paris Agreement but its success won’t lie in how well countries celebrate the day it was struck,” Christian Aid’s International Climate Lead Mohamed Adow said in a statement.
    “To really honour it we need to see countries recalibrating their economies in line with the Agreement’s long term goal of decarbonising the world economy by 2050,” he added.
    https://energy.economictimes.indiatimes.com/news/renewable/global-banks-undermining-paris-climate-agreement-goals-say-reports/62030994

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    pat

    worth reading all – reality vs the “climate activists”, who live in La La Land:

    11 Dec: FinancialPostCanada: Canadian financial companies pledge $2.9 billion to overseas coal plants as feds push phase-out
    A report from Friends of the Earth Canada lists six Canadian financial companies, including RBC and the Canadian Pension Plan, among the top 100 investors in new coal plants
    by Mia Robson, Canadian Press
    OTTAWA — Canada’s national pension fund manager is among a group of Canadian companies that are undermining the federal government’s international anti-coal alliance by investing in new coal power plants overseas, an environmental organization says.

    Friends of the Earth Canada joined with Germany’s Urgewald to release a report Monday looking at the top 100 private investors putting money down to expand coal-fired electricity — sometimes in places where there isn’t any coal-generated power at the moment…
    Together, Sun Life, Power Corporation, Caisse de depot et placement du Quebec, Royal Bank of Canada, Manulife Financial and the Canada Pension Plan Investment Board have pledged $2.9 billion towards building new coal plants overseas.

    Urgewald tracks coal plants around the world and reports there are 1,600 new plants in development in 62 nations, more than a dozen of which don’t have any coal-fired plants now.

    While Environment Minister Catherine McKenna is claiming to be a global leader on phasing out the dirtiest of electricity sources, private investors are “undermining that commitment,” says Friends of the Earth senior policy adviser John Bennett…

    McKenna’s office did not respond to a request for comment…
    http://business.financialpost.com/news/fp-street/canadian-financial-companies-funding-overseas-coal-plants-as-feds-push-phase-out

    plenty of detail/charts etc in this one.
    ***love the ending questioning the Govt’s resolve:

    12 Dec: Bloomberg: Shuli Ren: Choking on Beijing’s Clean Air Costs
    Those subsidies are great for gas firms, though, provided the government doesn’t choke.
    Getting Chinese farmers to burn natural gas has become a lucrative business.
    The Asian Infrastructure Investment Bank, conceived as China’s answer to the World Bank, approved a $250 million loan to Beijing Gas Group Co., to reduce coal use by connecting more than 200,000 rural households to the natural gas distribution network. It’s the AIIB’s first investment within China.

    The bank had better keep its checkbook handy: This new environmental protection drive could cost the Chinese government and its financing vehicles as much as 381 billion yuan ($57.6 billion) in subsidies…

    The stock market has already caught wind of this new cash cow. China Gas Holdings Ltd., the most aggressive operator, has rallied 127 percent this year, ENN Energy Holdings Ltd. has jumped 76 percent and China Resources Gas Group Ltd. has climbed 34 percent…

    But as always, big ambition comes with big risks. Analysts are concerned that gas distributors won’t get paid promptly. In general, it takes the government six to nine months to disburse connection fees…

    ***There’s also the question of whether China will stick to its ambitious plan. The government recently stepped back and allowed some regions to revert to burning coal to keep people warm…
    https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2017-12-11/what-s-that-burning-58-billion-for-beijing-s-clean-air

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    pat

    Dennis mentioned this earlier:

    VIDEO: 11 Dec: 9News: Waste to energy recovery plant touted for Blue Mountains
    By Eddy Meyer
    Sydney’s rubbish could be powering tens of thousands of homes within just three years if a plan by Energy Australia goes ahead.
    In an Australian first, the company plans to build a waste to energy recovery plant at its Mt Piper Power Station in the Blue Mountains after determining that it’s both technically and economically viable – transforming Sydney’s rubbish to provide a reliable baseload power supply without burning any extra coal.

    9NEWS was given exclusive and rare access to the Mt Piper power station, near Lithgow, where for the past quarter of a century coal has powered the turbines that provide electricity to 15 percent of the state.
    But that could be about to change.

    Energy Australia’s head of assets, Julian Turecek, says its plan solves two problems at the same time.
    “We’re diverting waste that would otherwise go to landfill and turning it into sustainable energy,” he said.
    And burning rubbish to create energy isn’t new, he says.
    “We’ll be using the latest technology that’s already deployed across Europe.”
    The idea is to build a furnace that would burn 200,000 tonnes of non-recyclable rubbish a year.
    That would stoke a new boiler that would produce enough steam to generate power for an extra 40,000 homes…

    But the idea is controversial.
    A plan by the people behind Dial-A-Dump to build a new, stand-alone waste to energy incinerator at Eastern Creek in Sydney’s west has been met with strong opposition and protests from the local community and environmental groups.
    But Energy Australia argues its plan is different. Mt Piper is already designated for power generation…READ ALL
    https://www.9news.com.au/national/2017/12/11/18/50/waste-to-energy-recovery-plant-touted-for-blue-mountains

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    Extreme Hiatus

    Maybe some people in Canada (British Columbia) have noticed what’s happening to SA. The leftist NDP government there, despite being kept in power by the tiny Green party, has approved the completion of a big new hydroelectric dam. From the government parrot:

    http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/site-c-dam-decision-1.4435939

    It was being argued by the usual suspects that this dam and its electricity was not needed because they could use solar and wind instead… without getting into any details of course. Looks like the hard core Greenies will now be playing the ‘indigenous’ card even more than they were in a desperate attempt to stop it.

    Bing tells me that “Designs call for an estimated peak capacity of approximately 1,100 MW, average output of 680 MW, and an annual output of 5,100 GWh of electricity.”

    How many wind turbines and/or solar panels would it take to make that much constant, dependable energy?

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    robert rosicka

    More predictions from the dark side although I’m sure this one has been around before .

    http://www.abc.net.au/news/2017-12-12/climate-warming-set-to-change-wind-power-globally-study-shows/9249820

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      el gordo

      “The land-sea temperature difference in the southern hemisphere is actually increasing because the land is warming up so rapidly relative to the ocean,” he said.

      Not a word on the Southern Annular Mode.

      See how the author constructs the story, based on flimsy evidence, its an utter disgrace.

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