JoNova

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Double your Hype: Climate meets Cryptocurrency to kill the world and save it

Cypto currencies are killing the world and saving it at the same time

It’s the battle of the cryptos. Bitcoin is set to destroy the global climate due to exponential electricity consumption. Mining for bitcoins consumes the same electricity as 159 countries (probably more now), and by 2020, the world. I suspect we’ll be saved by reality — transactions now take hours and cost $20, $40, $50 (depends on the day) — making bitcoin not useful for buying a beer. But Michael Kile has found a competing cypto which will save the world — bound to relieve climate believers of their normal cash while offering them gold-hopey-hyper-cubits which may evaporate at a moments notice. Don’t mock it, in people with the right brain, these may briefly increase oxytocin and reduce cortisol.

So say hello to the saviour ClimateCoin. It wants to be an “exponential environmental organisation…” (because linear ones are achieving so much, and the square of zero could do so much more right?) They are not even pretending to produce anything real. Their mission is to “create a symbol for the common man to be able to participate in the struggle against climate change…” No uncommon people need apply. No weather need be changed.

This record breaking video below has more hot-net-keywords than you have ever seen in one 6 minute 19 second youtube video since the dawn of civilization.

Buy now, hurry, invest, send them your money. Or not.

There’s another interview here with CryptoCurrently which may win the prize for the longest uninterrupted hype without describing any real object or outcome. Or maybe they did, and I just missed it. You too can “merge blockchain and climate change“, though when I do I get a blockchange, or a chain of climates and I’m not sure what to do with them.

Futures in bitcoins make a short selling crash possible (maybe quite appealling to some)

Ten days ago I asked maths brain (and other half) Dr David Evans what he thought of BitCoin. He said:

A futures exchange in New York will start to trade Bitcoin starting Monday [on Dec 19]. For the first time, people will be able to bet on Bitcoin, both up and down (long and short), using US dollars. That is, you can bet on the price of Bitcoin to go up, or to go down, without ever having to own any.

This is important because the introduction of futures markets has previously coincided with the end of upward movement in several commodities, such as uranium in 2007.

Now suppose you were part of a bunch of profit-seeking money men looking to make a serious killing. Perhaps you are at an influential global player like Goldman-Sachs. Along comes Bitcoin, a few years ago. Would the following scheme appeal?

  1. Buy bitcoin and plant favorable stories in the media to move the price up.
  2. As the price moves up, momentum sucks in hordes of investors.
  3. Open an exchange for futures contracts on Bitcoin.
  4. Take out a large short position on Bitcoin, by buying short contracts at the futures exchange (the kind that increase in value when the price of Bitcoin goes down). Should be easy to find people to take the other side of the contracts, because nearly all of the public are going long, expecting the price to go up.
  5. When set, sell all your bitcoins and buy more short contracts aggressively and quickly, in order to smash the price down on the futures exchange. Simultaneously, use your influence with governments around the world to “protect their currencies” by issuing regulations that make it difficult or illegal to use Bitcoin.
  6. The public, seeing the price of Bitcoin now going down and staying down, urgently want to sell. The price is routed.
  7. Cash in your futures contacts. The short positions you held will have gone up enormously (a hundred fold? a thousand?) in value as the Bitcoin price collapsed.
  8. Contemplate how the whole price movement, first up then down, simply transferred cash in government currencies from some people to others, while nothing useful was made or created.

Since he said that the price has gone from up to $19k, down to $15k. Not that that is unusual in cryptoworld. Bitcoin has crashed over 30% in every quarter since it began. So this fall is not out of the ordinary.

Michael Kile wished everyone a Merry Crypto Climatecoin Christmas and warned of crypto-crazy times:

The UK Financial Conduct Authority, incidentally, has warned that an initial coin offering (ICO) is high risk and offers little, if any, investor protection. For details of what can go wrong, visit cryptocurrency.

So, should you be concerned that your funds could be caught in a carbon portal, become bogged in a blockchain, or otherwise impeded or delayed, have a chat with your financial advisor, climate consultant and any person or deity you know who can look into the seeds of time and tell you which cryptocurrency will grow and which will not, including Lord Bull and Bear.

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Rating: 9.8/10 (35 votes cast)
Double your Hype: Climate meets Cryptocurrency to kill the world and save it, 9.8 out of 10 based on 35 ratings

92 comments to Double your Hype: Climate meets Cryptocurrency to kill the world and save it

  • #
    KinkyKeith

    Nicely laid out Jo but unfortunately I don’t have the energy or inclination to profit from either a rise or fall in this latest scam.

    At least with the current system you can look to your government if something goes wrong, for what that may be worth.

    If something goes wrong with crypto chain I suspect that finding the relevant head office might be a little difficult.

    KK

    131

    • #
      Boris

      Scam? Ponzi scheme? Considering you can go to any Commonwealth Bank and buy/sell bitcoin and there are now Bitcoin ATMs in every capital city AND the Federal Budget decreed that there was no GST component on Bitcoin sales, it appears you haven’t a clue.

      10

      • #

        I think he refers to it as a “scam” because the traders handling the mug punters’ speculation on bitcoin are making money trading in something that has no lawful worth nor purpose outside of speculation.

        No different from many of the other trading scams that the banks are happy to facilitate, the sort of thing that caused the GFC 10 years ago.

        Happily, bitcoin will do no more harm than burn a few thousand foolish people.

        40

  • #
    Just Thinkin'

    A Ponzi Scheme…

    Does anyone want to think about buying some
    Tulip Bulbs?

    140

  • #
    Ian1946

    Surely not even the most rabid global warmists and lefty loons would be stupid enough to be sucked into this scam.

    110

  • #
    Peter C

    How to short sell Bitcoin? Does anyone know?

    50

    • #
      PeterS

      Yes it can be done in several ways. CFDs is one way. Been around for a long time. CME Futures is another. They started just a week or two ago. ETFs are coming. I would not recommend doing it. You might think you picked the top only to find out in quick order you are blown out of the water by yet another blow off to much higher highs – MARGIN CALL!. It’s just too risky in either direction. No one really knows the top until it’s all over and the hundreds and hundreds of crypotcurrencies have all gone virtually or actually to zero. It hasn’t happened yet – far from it as they have bounced back up somewhat. It might all collapse soon or it might take another few more years after it has gone to the moon. No one really knows. Just stay away.

      100

    • #
      Yonniestone

      Corner the Frozen Orange Juice market by obtaining the Department of Agriculture crop report and…https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RLySXTIBS3c

      61

      • #
        Just Thinkin'

        Funny you should talk about frozen orange juice.

        When I was MUCH younger we could buy frozen orange juice
        that was in a small pyramid container (cardboard, coated.)

        We would cut one corner off with a pair of scissors and
        start eating and drinking the product.

        70

      • #
        PeterS

        Yes, the game is played to buy low, sell high, buy low, sell high, etc., etc. until the music stops then move on to the next game and repeat. It’s not rocket science is it?

        50

  • #
  • #
    el gordo

    Climatecoin is dodgy, but if someone invents Weatherbet I’ll give up my day job.

    60

  • #
    Lionell Griffith

    BitCoin = crypto currency = zero real value except for what others are willing to trade for it. The ultimate hot potato. A US Federal Reserve Note is not much better with nothing real behind it but the gun of Government forcing you to accept it for payment of legal debts. The situation has a long way to go to be as good as total madness.

    In a way, the tulip madness was sane by comparison. At least a tulip bulb was a something rather than a mere cypher in some database somewhere. You could plant it and make more tulip bulbs.

    100

    • #

      Flower power,
      I’m talkin’ about
      flower power, is
      gonna’ rule the earth…
      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c4ht5we3qzY

      40

    • #
      Roy Hogue

      A US Federal Reserve Note is not much better with nothing real behind it but the gun of Government forcing you to accept it for payment of legal debts.

      Lionell,

      I understand your point. But consider this — the ultimate value of a dollar is whatever the buyer and seller agree that it is. If I go to your shop looking for an X and your price is $10. I may say to myself, “Self, I bet someone else will sell it to me for less. Lionel has inflated his price too much above reality.” So I look and I find a shop where X is for sale at $5 and I buy it.

      What just happened? Did it depend on the dollar being backed by a certain amount of gold? My dollar was, as it always is, just what I and the seller are willing to agree that it’s worth. But to someone else its value was quite different from what your estimate was.

      If our money is backed by confidence in its value, we’re OK. If we lose confidence in its value, were lost.

      101

      • #
        Lionell Griffith

        If it were backed by Gold, its value would not drop to zero or even to the value of a piece of used paper called a Federal Reserve Note. There are things you can use Gold for that little else if anything will suffice. Especially if you have a wife who likes bright and shiny things of adornment.

        61

        • #
          Roy Hogue

          Lionell,

          If it was backed by gold then the value of gold is what’s important. Suppose — and this is not so far fetched — suppose that food becomes scarce because of collapse of society. Will you eat your gold or will you want something more like meat and potatoes?

          A city like Los Angeles can only feed itself if food by the ton is brought in by truck and train every single day. Both of those modes of transport depend 100% on fossil fuel. And money changes hands to make that happen, money backed by confidence that if I sell you something you want, the dollars you pay me with will buy something I want. Diesel fuel might be a better standard than gold. At least it can move goods from supplier to consumer which is what our whole human society has been based on since humans first abandoned their individual tribes and banded together because they realized the benefit of a larger society.

          I have some gold too. But frankly it’s been a disappointing investment and I much prefer to invest my money in the productivity of those who are still willing to produce. I’m up 15% plus for the year according to my broker. And as long as that works I’m OK and you’re OK.

          If that fails all the gold in the world won’t feed you or protect you from the cold winter you’re having right now.

          00

          • #
            Will Janoschka

            If it was backed by gold then the value of gold is what’s important. Suppose — and this is not so far fetched — suppose that food becomes scarce because of collapse of society. Will you eat your gold or will you want something more like meat and potatoes?

            If alone in the woods, at night, having to go potty, please state your estimate of relative worth of US$20 bill vs 1 roll of Charmin tissue? :-)

            00

            • #
              Roy Hogue

              An old Boy Scout joke comes to mind. But out of courtesy I’ll not repeat it. Needless to say its point is a bit unsavory.

              00

      • #
        PeterS

        “If our money is backed by confidence in its value, we’re OK. If we lose confidence in its value, were lost.”

        Exactly. That’s why the US dollar will lose all that too and become worthless eventually. All currencies in history follow the same pattern. The only question is the timing. No one knows when it will happen. It could happen in 10 years, 20, 50, …

        The crypotocurrency mania is just one symptom of the current level of greed. Once the US dollar starts to lose it’s world currency status, it is even possible albeit not certain that cryptocurrencies will explode to the upside making what we’ve seen so far look so pedestrian. The problem though is no one will want to convert back to US dollars as it will continue to decline in confidence. The trick then is to switch to whatever the next world currency will become but that may become pointless as the value of that new currency will already be climbing in confidence and value, thus the cryptocurrencies will be next to worthless anyway. Measuring one worthless currency to another only makes it almost as worthless if the two are are not backed by confidence. There are moves afoot to start a new world currency but it’s too early to tell when it’s going to happen. So the point at which one makes the switch becomes very critical. In the end the best way to handle all this is to keep out of the game and let the players trip over each other and fall. “Invest” in some more secure things, like a tiny amount in gold and silver, some blue chip stock, some real-estate (although it’s clearly overheated), some in cash and stay away from debt as much as possible. Although money can buy some happiness, it can also buy a lot more misery for the same dollar value.

        60

  • #
    Lionell Griffith

    OT:

    I want my promised Global Warming back.

    It is 0F outside right now and 68F in my apartment. The radiator is 110F and can’t raise the temperature to the set point of 72F.

    Yes, I know. It’s called Winter in the Midwest USA. Bah Humbug!

    100

    • #
      farmerbraun

      Ha! But here in NZ, just days after the summer solstice , we have snow down to 1500 metres in the South Island, and daily maximum temp. of 15 deg. C. for many parts. Yes , I know , ozzies call it a cool change. It can happen anytime.
      And last week my area was declared a drought zone as 34mm of rain fell, with a further 6mm since. Stupid pasture is green and growing. Does it not know we are officially in drought?

      110

    • #
      el gordo

      Lionell the AMO is going negative and sadly there is nothing we can do to stop imminent global cooling.

      https://notalotofpeopleknowthat.files.wordpress.com/2015/04/image74.png

      70

      • #
        Lionell Griffith

        I know but most of the politicians and bureaucrats on earth don’t or don’t care. They just want the power to make us dance to their tune. Somehow we need to get them dancing to our tune.

        40

        • #
          el gordo

          Pruitt is doing a good job dismantling the EPA, but I was hoping Donald would tweet ‘CO2 does not cause gorebull worming’.

          20

    • #
      Senex

      Ottawa, Canada, 6:00AM on Dec. 28th: -26C, wind chill -38C..

      10

  • #
    pat

    here are some crypto currencies on steroids and then some.

    saw someone on youtube recently hyping the following as being backed by the UN bodies, ICJ (International Court of Justice), ICC (International Criminal Court). indeed, it would seem phony ICJ/ICC web design is used.

    this is so over the top, so be warned:

    ICJ-ICC: UDCRF – Universal Digital Currency Reserve Foundation
    The New Fully Asset Backed Digital Currencies
    The ICJ/ICC are presently involved in a re-distribution process of Historical Assets and Accounts for the betterment of humanity. We have sanctioned the Universal Digital Currency Reserve Foundation (UDCRF) as part of the new Digital Reserve for global and intergalactic currencies. Other main objective includes the signing off on global projects in the areas of provisions of food, water, energy and shelter for all peoples…

    The Royal Imperial Sovereign & Senior Judges of the ICJ/ICC main purposes are with Accounting, Auditing and Redemption with Settlors Offices of THE PRECISE VENTURE HOLDINGS LIMITED (PVHL), BRITISH VIRGIN ISLANDS of THE SATURN GOVERNMENT and the UNISTAR PLENARY EARTH GOVERNMENT, THE WORLD BANK DEVELOPMENT GROUP (WBDG) and THE UNITED NATIONS SYSTEM (UNS)…

    All currencies are tracking (not pegged) to the Euro (EUR) giving us the flexibility to track other currencies in times of financial crisis around the world. The coins being issued are as follows:

    ***Revo (10 EUR), Deuro (100 EUR), Centum (1000 EUR) and Milla (1000000 EUR)…ETC
    http://icj-icc.org/digital-reserve/

    at bottom of page under “Contact” it states: New ICJ Address Location For Banking and Redemption: Beijing, China
    Click here for more

    better still, by clicking on “Digital Reserve” under “Partner Links” at the bottom of the page, you get these pricey beauties:

    DigitalReserve.org: Digital Reserve for a New World
    Dedicated to making your life easier
    Welcome to the digitalReserve, an entity set up by the United Humanitarian Trust foundation (UHTf) to bring forward new financial systems and mechanisms for transactions, secure storage of wealth and value for long-term prosperity to Nations around the world. Transferring value between Nations, as well as funding large scale and long term projects, using our secure robust instruments in the form of our coin based digital asset technology and procedures for implementing humanity’s journey into the future…

    Our digital Bondcoins allow Nations, Pension Funds, Hedge Funds and other groups to put their Capital Funds into a hybrid coin-based, bond replacement program.

    ***Bondcoins are purchased for 100% of the face value starting at €10m equivalent value and up to €100 Billion.

    This series is valued at €10m, €100m, €1B, €10B, €100B and available in the following seven digital coins…

    Agricoin, Energicoin, Aquacoin, Fewcoin, Medicoin, Infracoin Goldcoin…

    Energicoin: This Bondcoin supports the further development and implementation of alternative energy projects either into Nations where there is little to no energy generation or replacing existing aged methods of power generation. The Foundation is fully committed to alternative technologies and will not work with existing polluting non-sustainable technology. These projects are about energy self sustainability for a Nation.

    Aquacoin: …The Foundation supports groups and Nations that are preserving areas like the Great Barrier Reef off the Australian coastline by repopulating these areas with the diverse species of fish and shellfish that use to live amongst the corals. It is about supporting known and researched problems that have come to light through recognised marine biological research programs…ETC ETC
    http://digitalreserve.org/

    surprised this hasn’t come to the attention of the UN and even more surprised if anyone has paid over their hard-earned dollars to buy this rubbish.

    40

    • #
      Roy Hogue

      Let the UN have it. No one else would have the worldwide organization needed to do it up all proper and shipshape. But I suppose they’ll soon have everyone in bankruptcy.

      On the other hand, maybe those ex-spurts sitting in their big office building overlooking the beautiful East River might save the world with one or the other of those fantastic ideas. Just let them do the experiment to see if it works in someone else’s country with someone else’s wealth — hopefully Antarctica so only the Penguins go broke.

      51

  • #
    pat

    19 Dec: Washington Times: Greenpeace accepts bitcoin payments despite ‘mining’ cost from fossil fuels
    By Ben Wolfgang
    Greenpeace, perhaps the world’s most iconic environmental organization, is standing by bitcoin, even as others in the conservation community worry about catastrophic effects, saying the energy it takes to “mine” the cryptocurrency could be hastening climate change…

    Since 2014, it has accepted bitcoin as a valid form of currency for making donations. The group has brushed aside a growing set of environmental complaints, saying the energy use issues aren’t as bad as critics have made them out to be. Instead, the group says, the problems with bitcoin are no different from any other energy-gulping activity that relies on greenhouse-gas-spewing fossil fuels…

    Indeed, there is little debate about whether bitcoin uses mind-blowing amounts of electricity. Research from
    the International Energy Agency, the University of Cambridge and a host of other reputable sources confirm as much…
    The website Digiconomist.net (LINK), for example, tracks bitcoin energy use in detail. As of Monday, bitcoin “mining” this year is projected to hit 34.86 terawatt hours…

    Roughly 58 percent of bitcoin mining worldwide takes place in China, followed by about 16 percent in the U.S. The remaining 26 percent is mined elsewhere, including Canada, Europe and Venezuela. Much of the computing power in China comes from coal-fired plants, lending credence to fears that bitcoin is perpetuating the use of fossil fuels…

    But in some parts of China, analysts say, bitcoin mining is fueled by clean power that doesn’t contribute to climate change. There are instances in China, for example, of large-scale mining facilities specifically locating in places where they can access clean power…ETC
    https://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2017/dec/19/greenpeace-accepts-bitcoin-despite-fossil-fuel-nee/

    30

  • #
    Roy Hogue

    Whatever happened to good old coin of the realm? It worked for thousands of years, was welcome anywhere and you could deposit it with a banker at interest.

    Best of all, it was uncontroversial, wasn’t bothered by or about the climate and you didn’t need a PhD in complicated math to understand how it worked.

    81

    • #
      Roy Hogue

      Oh! Did I mention that there was no energy needed to use it or figure out how much of it you had and… Yes, the best thing of all, you could hold it in your hand.

      71

    • #
      Roy Hogue

      Or maybe we should find the fuse that all this nonsense depends on and simply unscrew it. Instant return to coin of the realm.

      On the other hand if the required mining power is increasing so fast we may need to only wait a short time and the fuse will blow all by itself. We won’t even need to go looking for it.

      How can the world be so gullible?

      101

      • #
        Roy Hogue

        I really should have stayed in bed this morning. That can’t help but be more profitable than this. :-(

        81

        • #
          Sceptical Sam

          Roy, me too. Bed that is.

          However, I’m not sure about this:

          you didn’t need a PhD in complicated math to understand how it worked.

          I think you’ll find that the innumerate and otherwise mathematically challenged green-lefties would have had trouble with £.s.p. Remember:

          20s = £1.oo.oo

          21s = 1 Guinea

          £1.1.o = 1 Guinea

          240 p = £1.oo.oo

          12p = 1s

          60p = 1 Florin

          30p = 1/2 Florin.

          1p – 2 H’penny

          Here’s the brain-teaser for the lefties:

          Tim Flannery spent twice as much as his good comrade mate Bob Brown on a waterfront property. Bob spent four times as much as their mutual comrade Christine Milne who only bought a permanent van in a beach-side trailer park. Christine’s trailer cost her £5,125-12-11.

          How much did Tim’s waterfront property cost? (Answer to be calculated in $Aus).

          30

          • #
            Graeme#4

            You forgot the Farthings…

            30

            • #
              dadgervais

              And the Quid.

              I was stationed at RAF Checksands (1968-1970) and I didn’t have much trouble learning the currency.

              10

          • #
            Roy Hogue

            I could argue that humanity mastered those complications a very long time ago. But I wont. :-)

            10

          • #
            Annie

            My husband as a schoolboy had a Saturday job in a greengrocer’s shop. It involved weighing out fruit and vegetables in lbs and ozs (pounds and ounces!) and adding up, in his head, the costs in pounds, (£s), shillings (s) and pence (d, for denarii). Good mental arithmetic practise which is probably uncommon these days.

            00

  • #
    Ruairi

    For climate, it’s better by far,
    To save up your coins in a jar,
    For that long rainy day,
    When indoors must stay,
    You could spend at your own wet bar.

    60

  • #
    Anton

    When you merge blockchain and climate change you get climate chainge.

    80

  • #
    farmerbraun

    A little O/T , but I wanted to draw readers attention to this line in the Wiki entry concerning the Pacific Decadal Oscillation.

    -The 2014 flip from the cool PDO phase to the warm phase, which vaguely resembles a long and drawn out El Niño event, contributed to record-breaking surface temperatures across the planet in 2014.

    Appparently this CACC is far, far worse than we could ever have imagined. A quasi- 30 year cycle has just “flipped” in mid-phase . Who knew?

    40

    • #
      el gordo

      Its back to the mid-1940s for us and if you squint your eyes you can see the Great Climate Shift of 1976.

      http://research.jisao.washington.edu/pdo/pdo_tsplot_jan2017.png

      50

      • #
        farmerbraun

        So what do you think ? Is it quite wrong to suggest that the negative(cool) phase beginning around 1999 is now reversed? Where are the strong el Ninos that typify the positive (warm) phase?

        60

        • #
          el gordo

          ‘So what do you think ?’

          Its a wiki beatup, the hiatus was not in the script and ENSO remains an enigma.

          The recent strong El Nino has kept temperatures high, but I strongly believe we are entering a decade with a predominance of La Nina.

          20

          • #
            Will Janoschka

            Its a wiki beatup, the hiatus was not in the script and ENSO remains an enigma.

            Interesting word usage! Isn’t an ‘enigma’ da same as squirting soapy water up your ‘hiatus’? :-)

            10

  • #
    Dave in the States

    Seems like everything related to AGW, and green movements, and green energy, has some kind of shady money thing about it.

    Academics seeking grants for non problems and recycling “settled science”.
    Green energy scammers farming subsidies.
    Government bureaucrats keeping the tax payer supported gravy train rolling.
    Carbon trading schemes.
    Energy taxes.
    Green groups raking in the donations by crying wolf over and over.
    Compliance to onerous regulations unnecessary costs and contracts.
    Lawsuit after lawsuit………

    and now this.

    90

  • #
    TdeF

    As far as I can see, bitcoin is a short term trading currency for money launderers. Drug dealers. Arms dealers. Tax avoiders. Cash shifters. For that purpose its long term value is utterly irrelevant. There is no basis for the value of the currency. Like betting on the wind, precisely what South Australia is doing.

    142

    • #
      PeterS

      Although you are correct in the description of certain players in bitcoin and other cryptocurrencies I feel that the vast majority in the recent time and now are just those who are chasing a dream in the hope of making a fortune with little or no effort. They have nothing sinister in mind, no more so than those who play the pokies or the lotteries. It’s how the Tulip Mania ballooned to the bitter end.

      30

  • #
    TdeF

    For that matter, these is no value in any currency but domestic and international trade, which you could liken to energy trading. Since the gold standard was ended by Richard Nixon in 1971, the world has not exploded. Currencies are all measured against the one huge economy, the United States. The $US is the de facto standard for all trade and its value is assured as it is the coal power station of the world. The fact that the US has walked out of the German/French Paris accord and is defunding the UN means they are walking away from the windmills, those fake power sources. Imagine making a country dependent on the wind? It is a synonym for unreliability.

    You can trace this EU love of wind all the way back to the vegetarian Adolph Hitler who hated coal and thought the future was in wind and tides. A madman politician with no idea of the real source of energy. Still typical. We can only be grateful that he did not believe in nuclear energy either, as much of the nuclear development was German at the time. He chased Einstein out of the country and defunded nuclear against his wonder weapons. Sadly his animist and very primitive ideas continued after May 1945 and Germany leads the world in woeful wind.

    102

    • #
      PeterS

      So true. For those who don’t understand how money and assets are not the same thing and that money is intangible see https://www.armstrongeconomics.com/uncategorized/money-had-never-been-tangible-period-if-you-do-not-understand-what-money-is-you-will-lose-your-shirt-more/

      In other words, cryptocurrencies are just as intangible as the US dollar or any other currency. They all have exchange value in the sense they can be exchanged for another currency, commodity or service but in and of themselves the currencies have no intrinsic value. One day they are worth a certain amount for exchange purposes and the next day worth a lot less or a lot more.

      41

      • #
        PeterS

        Small correction. I should have said “currencies have little or no intrinsic value”. As Armstrong points out the amount supply of US dollars is only made up by about 10% of physical currency. The rest is all digital, much like cryptocurrencies. The only difference is who is backing it up. In the case of the US dollar it’s the US Federal Reserve (not the US government) which is just another private bank.

        32

      • #

        A national currency is backed by that country’s economy and government. The currency’s value is strongly linked with that country’s economic activity.
        The only thing that can de-link a currency from its national economy (thus rendering it worthless) is the kind of economic crash that causes people to go back to the barter system – an exceptionally rare situation of which I can think of only 4 examples – 1930s Germany, 1980s Argentina, 1990s Zimbabwe and Venezuela.

        Your bit-coin is backed by nothing but people playing a weird gambling game with each other. It is already just as worthless as the currencies in the 4 examples I gave, except there are enough delusional people who continue to act to maintain its value.

        91

        • #
          Bulldust

          Hyperinflation is far more common that those four instances. Here are 10 cases all within the last century:

          http://www.zerohedge.com/contributed/2014-02-06/hyperinflation-–-10-worst-cases

          33

          • #

            There are 100 countries in the world – over the last century, only a handful of those have experienced a national currency that essentially lost all worth – not all the examples given in that article were particularly long-lasting (some only lasted months), and ones such as Brazil is a good example of how a government backs its currency to save it from oblivion.

            As bitcoin prices wildly fluctuate, there is no government that can task itself with calming things. In fact, there wouldn’t be any government that even cared, because those price fluctuations have no real-world implications, aside a few mug punters losing their cash and a bunch of cynical middle-men cleaning up on trading fees.

            72

            • #
              Bulldust

              So even when you are demonstrably and definitively wrong, you maintain you aren’t wrong, with extensive qualifiers. Ever consider a career in politics?

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          PeterS

          Actually it’s not. The currency is backed by the central bank in question, which in turn is backed by the government, which in turn is backed by the central bank. It’s a circular game. That’s how money is generated these days. People will say otherwise but that’s par tof the game – it’s an allusion. Not long ago money was backed by gold or silver, a tangible asset but no longer. The assets of the country predominantly belong to the people and corporations, not the government nor the central bank. A currency can go to zero while the assets will still be worth something in some other currency because the assets have intrinsic value. Money does not. It’s simply a medium for exchange.

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            The reason it isn’t a circular game is that public opinion polls, and then actual national elections, feed into the process by which an economy is managed, which in turn affects that economy’s currency’s worth.

            A government can make extremely bad borrowing decisions like Argentina did, but generally they will be voted out long before they do any damage. That isn’t circular at all.

            Take the current situation in Australia – we are under constant threat of having a Labor government returned because most people are well aware that the Libs did massive damage to our economy under Howard that no subsequent government has yet been able to reverse. We now produce next to nothing (even the Brazilians can build passenger jets, and the Spanish can build motor vehicles – we can’t do either), the government has massively reduced assets, and massively increased running costs – for example the entire public service now pays rent instead of owning its own buildings – that was a scam whereby billions of dollars in assets was turned into an annual billion dollar liability, the short-term benefit being an injection of cash into the budget the equivalent of about 1/10th of annual expenditure on health.

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              el gordo

              Governments can make extremely bad borrowing decisions like desalination plants, wind farms and solar farms, but are not voted out.

              Australian democracy is on the skids.

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    pat

    a success story? time will tell, if they really do play the waiting game:

    20 Dec: BusinessInsider: The Winklevoss twins are worth about $1.3 billion in Bitcoin alone
    by Elena Holodny
    The Winklevoss twins made a big bet on Bitcoin– and it looks like it’s paid off.
    Cameron and Tyler Winklevoss have amassed a Bitcoin fortune worth about $US1.3 billion as of Tuesday, according to estimates from the New York Times.
    The twins bought about 120,000 Bitcoins back in when the price was less than $US10 per bitcoin. They bought the cryptocurrency with the $US65 million settlement they got in their lawsuit against Mark Zuckerberg over claims that they came up with the idea for Facebook…

    And they have also racked up “an additional $US350 million or so” of other virtual currencies, most of it in Ethereum.

    The twins said they might think about selling when the value of all Bitcoin in circulation is on par with all the gold in the world – about $US7-8 trillion compared to the $US310 billion value of all Bitcoin on Tuesday. But Tyler Winklevoss added that even that might not be the tipping point since “Bitcoin is more than gold.”…

    Earlier this year, JPMorgan CEO Jamie Dimon called it “a fraud” that is “worse than the tulip bulbs,” referring to the 17th century Dutch tulip-mania bubble.

    People outside the finance world have started to take notice as the price of Bitcoin keeps soaring higher. Some have even started to do creative things to get in on the action, like taking out mortgages to buy Bitcoin or purchasing the cryptocurrency with credit cards…
    https://www.businessinsider.com.au/bitcoin-billionaires-winklevoss-twins-2017-12?r=US&IR=T

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    pat

    comment in moderation re: 20 Dec: BusinessInsider: The Winklevoss twins are worth about $1.3 billion in Bitcoin alone

    BBC World Sce did another program this week, debunking the amount of electricity required, claiming – from memory, as I wasn’t listening closely – that it was more like the electricity usage of Slovakia.

    12 Dec: BBC: Bitcoin: Does it really use more electricity than Ireland?
    Can something which has no physical presence consume as much electricity as an entire country?
    The internet has recently been awash with claims that the digital currency Bitcoin could be using more electricity than a number of developed nations. So Reality Check wants to know: how did they work it out, and is it true?…READ ON
    http://www.bbc.com/news/technology-42265728

    more Beeb Bitcoin coverage:

    BBC – Bitcoin
    http://www.bbc.com/news/topics/c734j90em14t/bitcoin

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    pat

    the write rambles on, but worth noting:

    12 Dec: CleanTechnica: Michael Barnard: Bitcoin’s Hot But Blockchain For Cleantech Is Interesting
    (Michael Barnard works with startups, existing businesses and investors to identify opportunities for significant bottom line growth in the transforming low-carbon economy. He regularly publishes analyses of low-carbon technology and policy in sites including Newsweek, Slate, Forbes, Huffington Post, Quartz, CleanTechnica and RenewEconomy, with some of his work included in textbooks)

    (SCROLL DOWN) What does this have to do with cleantech?
    There are several emerging blockchain applications which are trying to allow producers of electricity to contract directly with consumers using smart contracts and leave the utility out of it entirely. This falls apart somewhat when you consider that the utility still owns the transmission and distribution grids and electricity is a heavily regulated utility in most places.
    But many utilities are exploring this because they can become enablers of smart contracts in which they get a cut of the transaction to pay for grid costs without having to do as much administration of the payment process…

    Carbon pricing is interesting too. I’m advising a startup that is focused on building a cryptocurrency for carbon-credit trading. It took me two hours of exploration with them to understand the value creation proposition, which isn’t atypical for a lot of blockchain and cryptocurrency applications. After all, if you can do it easily with a database in the Cloud, webpages, and apps, you have to truly understand the value chain in order to find an application where blockchain adds transformative value. Similarly, Energy Blockchain Labs in China is working with IBM to build a carbon-trading solution using Hyperledger…
    https://cleantechnica.com/2017/12/12/bitcoins-hot-blockchain-cleantech-interesting/

    Pt 3:

    24 Dec: CleanTechnica: Michael Barnard: Blockchain Contracts for Electricity: Business Drivers
    https://cleantechnica.com/2017/12/24/blockchain-contracts-electricity-business-drivers/

    LINK underneath the article for Pt 2 – Blockchain Contracts for Electricity: Underpinnings

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    pat

    26 Dec: Accuweather: Photos: Record-breaking snowfall blankets Erie, Pennsylvania, in 60 inches of snow
    by Ashley Williams
    Snowfall totals broke records in Erie, Pennsylvania, as snow covered much of the northeastern United States on Christmas.
    From 7 p.m. on Dec. 24 to 5 p.m. Dec. 26, Erie had received 60 inches of snow, which shattered numerous records for the city…

    “This is now the biggest two-day snow total on record for Pennsylvania, besting the old record of 44 inches, which was set in Morgantown from March 20-21, 1958,” AccuWeather Meteorologist Bill Deger said…

    Remarkably, snow hasn’t finished falling over Erie just yet, said Deger.
    “A chilly flow over Lake Erie will produce more snow for the city at varying intensities through Wednesday, and they could get another 1 to 2 feet of snow through midweek,” he said…
    https://www.accuweather.com/en/weather-news/photos-record-breaking-snowfall-blankets-erie-pennsylvania-in-53-inches-of-snow/70003657

    26 Dec: Fox5NY: Near record cold New Year’s Eve expected in New York City
    On New Year’s Eve, the temperature is expected to drop to about 12 degrees, about 12 degrees below normal, and one of the coldest on record…
    Despite the cold, it is not expected to be a record for that date. In 1962 the temperature plunged to 2 degrees on New Year’s Eve but that fact is little comfort for the upwards of one million people expected to spend hours outdoors waiting to ring in 2018…
    http://www.fox5ny.com/news/near-record-cold-new-years-eve-expected-in-new-york-city

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    Greg Cavanagh

    For what it’s worth:

    https://climatecoin.io/uploads/CLIMATECOIN-WHITEPAPER-1.pdf

    https://coinclarity.com/ico-events/climatecoin/

    It definitely reads like a Ponzi.
    Their starting figure “Paris helped open up nearly $23 trillion in opportunities for climate-smart investments… “

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      Greg Cavanagh

      The PDF contains the names and portfolios of the “Team”.

      Anyone who cares, writes climate books, or searches for name connections; should take a copy.

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    Bachy

    So… Give us money and we will give you a meaningless token that you can feel good about because it has the word Climate in the name. Am I wrong here?

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    Bachy

    OK let’s talk about these cryptocurrency futures markets. But first, let’s talk about a much more popular market – Forex (Foreign Exchange). And for the record I make a good living from forex CFD trading.

    I’m sure we’ve all seen the ads on late night TV about trading currency. The real forex market is worth trillions of dollars per day. But the trading advertised is for something called a Contract For Difference, or a CFD. In its simplest definition it is a side bet. Two people get together, one says I think the currency pair stated will go up, the other says it will go down, and they bet some money between them. CFD trading has NOTHING to do with the actual exchange rate itself, no real currency is traded and it does not and cannot have any impact on the exchange rate between two currencies at all.

    Now let’s look at crypto currencies and the exchanges set up. Read the fine print. The exchanges are ALL trading CFDs. Not the real currency at all. It is the same side bet as in Forex. Works the same way, and has the same impact on the price as in currency trading. None whatsoever. A short position is only possible through derivatives, it cannot be done with the real item in question.

    So do I think that the recent futures trading will affect the price of bitcoin? No. It’s not possible. Do I think the futures trading options in CFDs will cause people to lose money? Yes. Have a look at the silver futures market about 5 years ago. The market was manipulated by some big players and a lot of people, several of whom I know, lost a lot of money. The futures trading has been set up so that institutional investors have an additional opportunity to clean out the balance of retail investors. But these side bets on CFDs have nothing to do with the actual Bitcoin etc exchange rate.

    In the case of Bitcoin, I believe it is a nothing item made valuable partly through its utility to criminal enterprise and partly through media driven hype. I do think it’s a bubble, and I do think it will collapse. The biggest problem I see with it is that the blockchain essentially forms a ledger of transactions and when governments gain the ability to decrypt it, they will gain a complete ledger of criminal activity. At which point the currency will collapse. I’d say that at that point it will not be worth the paper it’s printed on but it’s not even printed on paper. It is a nothing, an idea, with nothing backing it up other than utility to criminals and belief of idiots.

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    Alice Thermopolis

    Curiously, the Climatecoin management team has quite a few Spanish staff, including Ana Karen ZS, Universitat Politècnica de València (UPV), Antonio Lui Yang CCO, described as “ a consultant who has managed the promotion of Spanish companies, like the Wanda Project for the Villarreal Soccer Club, using Chinese social media”; and a Russian chap.

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    Senex

    Are there any futures markets for carbon credits? There is another cryto-instrument that is ripe for engineering a crash.

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    tolip

    Yet another late to the dance ‘crypto’.

    In addition to BTC futures the astute reader might also notice opportunities for “arbitrage”.
    With multiple outlets converting coin to cash, and prices NOT being the same on them it does look like it is possible to buy low and sell high.

    At this point, for those interested in such things, I’d direct you the the search engine of your choice and lookup “MtGox”.
    When the music stopped all the chairs were gone.

    I’m not ripping on BTC, I’m a miner and I purchased ‘futures’ years ago in the form of ASIC’s to mine with.
    2 winters ago I had free indoor 2kW electric heater 24/7, then the landscape changed and the hardware wouldn’t pay for it’s own electricity(a personal rule I follow as a miner to limit risk to the cost of hardware).
    At today’s prices it looks like I could fire them up and break even.
    Now I face a choice of most efficient(gas) or least cost.
    I’m inside wearing many layers of clothing because my shoebox is cold and drafty, hmmm what to choose…
    :)

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      Will Janoschka

      Yet another late to the dance ‘crypto’.

      The crypto part can eliminate the very lucrative skimming fees demanded by every BANKSTER for every traaction, even those giving away government purchased food (transaction) via wholesaler (transaction) to retailer (transaction) to indigent (transaction), YOUR EBT SYSTEM! Da Armenian system of “go steal some eggs”, is amazingly efficient!

      I’m inside wearing many layers of clothing because my shoebox is cold and drafty, hmmm what to choose…

      Your choice is pitchfork or torch to assist neighbors in destroying useless BANKSTERS!
      All the best!-will-

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        Will Janoschka

        Disclaimer: I only wholesale finely honed pitch-fork for your approval.. It is my brother Ed, that deals in ‘well oiled’ torches!! :-)

        00