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Not Powering Past Coal: 20 countries that didn’t use much coal, agree to not use much coal

Get excited everyone — the South Pacific Island of Nuie, with a population of 1,625 people has vowed not to build a coal plant. The nation is so small it is not even a member of the UN. This champion of the move away from coal is 98% powered by diesel. Everybody Cheer!

Powering Past Coal Alliance: 20 countries sign up to phase out coal power by 2030

Twenty countries including Britain, Canada and New Zealand have joined an international alliance to phase out coal from power generation before 2030.

The list includes none of the top 15 coal producers in the world. It’s non-binding. Nearly all the countries that have signed up to “Power Past Coal” are already powered by hydro, gas, nuclear or some combination of renewables (with interconnector back up). The Marshall Islands are powered by almost 100% diesel, with a hint of coconut oil. Luxembourg barely even generates electricity — importing 98% from other countries. And 68% of the people in Angola don’t even have access to electricity. It shouldn’t be too hard to get to fifty countries to sign this if they offer a free conference dinner to half the South Pacific, Central America and darkest Africa.

Is anybody fooled by this?

“I think we can safely say that the response has been overwhelming,” Canadian Environment Minister Catherine McKenna said.

The only nation which might feel pain here is Canada, the twelfth largest coal producer in the world. Since it’s also the second largest hydropower producer and has relatively cheap electricity, there is some room for virtue signaling. Besides, half of Canadian coal production is exported to countries that aren’t cutting coal use, and Canadian coal production just hit a 30 year low.

The alliance appears to be a thinly veiled critical response to the current administration of Mr Trump.

Rather, the alliance appears to be thinly veiled, full stop.

Nuclear power countries

Hydro

Wind powered

  • Denmark 47% wind, hydro and solar, and 30% coal and seven interconnector transmission lines to the rest of Europe.

Gas

  • Mexico — Oil & gas, provide 70% of the electricity. Hydro 18% and Coal is just 7%
  • Netherlands - Gas 67%, coal 15%
  • Italy — 61% powered by gas, 21% coal. Hydro is 18%. Italy gets 10% of its power from solar, and has one of Europe’s highest final electricity prices.
  • UK – Gas, 40%, Nuclear, 20%,  Only 8.6% coal
  • Portugal- 30% Hydro, 27% gas and 22% for wind and 20% for coal.

Diesel

Not even a Generator of Electricity

  • Luxembourg buys its electricity from everyone around it. It has almost no production — even of renewables — importing up to 98% of its electricity.  Not surprisingly it also has the “second smallest forecast penetration of renewables EU”.

Top 15 coal producers (EIA)

  1. China
  2. United States
  3. India
  4. Australia
  5. Indonesia
  6. Russia
  7. South Africa
  8. Germany
  9. Poland
  10. Kazakhstan
  11. Colombia
  12. Canada
  13. Czech Republic
  14. Greece
  15. Turkey

 

Top coal consumers (EIA)

REFERENCES

World Bank Access to Electricity

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210 comments to Not Powering Past Coal: 20 countries that didn’t use much coal, agree to not use much coal

  • #
    robert rosicka

    What a bunch of watermelons .

    260

    • #
      Manfred

      Meanwhile in the real World, Warren Buffett is Betting Big on Coal

      If you’re bullish on America, you’ve got to be bullish on coal. Coal is an important component of the U.S. economy, powering 50% of the nation’s electricity. Although Australia is currently the world’s largest coal exporter, the U.S. has the world’s largest coal reserves and will surpass Australian in exports in the future. Who will be importing U.S. coal? China and India, whose economies depend on coal for 80% and 70% of their energy needs, respectively.

      The virtue signalling soy-boys over at the UNEP couldn’t get away with this nonsensical handwaving divestment if the Fourth Estate, the MSM, adhered to the canons of journalism and did their jobs critically, impartially, ethically and thoroughly.

      And if this were the case, pigs might fly. Nevertheless, take heart and great enjoyment in watching exactly what would happen to the entire fetid kollectiv of posturing UN watermelons HERE, in this classic: begin watching at 1:50, the climax occurs from 2:35

      320

    • #
      Roger

      And for the last week or two it has been the UK’s coal fired power stations that have kept the lights on and industry working in France whilst French President Macron was grandstanding about coal, Trump and the USA.

      With a significant percentage of French nuclear capacity down for ‘safety’ improvements it had to rely on electricity from UK coal fired power stations through the interconnector to France.

      90

    • #
      Geoff

      So none of these countries import coal? Nearly everything they import is derived from fossil fuels. They are the end users that drive the use of coal elsewhere. The idea that they are somehow not using coal is stupid.

      10

  • #
    PeterS

    They forget to add that countries that do use much coal agree to continue and use much more coal, except Australia of course. Australia is the only country in the world deliberately committing economic suicide by shutting down its primary source of electricity and not replacing it with new generation coal fired power stations, nuclear ones and/or hydro on a mass scale. How long must this self destructive policy by both major parties has to go on before voters wake up and refuse to put either party back in government to send a clear message? When electricity prices are double or triple now and when we have blackouts on a weekly or daily basis? By that time of course it will be too late and the nation’s economy collapses. If either ALP or the LNP under Turnbull wins government next time, Australian voters deserve whatever comes.

    510

  • #

    I saw this earlier in the week, and started to do some rough(ish) calculations, based around the International Energy Statistics at the U.S. Energy Information Administration (EIA) site, that humungous database.

    Although not spending too much time on it, as I was busy with other things, the hour and a half I did spend on it gave me the idea that this amounts to between 3 and 5% at most of World coal fired power generation, and I might even think that’s probably even on the high side.

    Tony.

    290

    • #
      TdeF

      Would $1.5Tn a year have given us fusion power by now? Possibly. Then everyone would be happy. CO2 could go up and down as it liked, just as it always has.

      210

      • #
        TdeF

        That is the real tragedy of the Long Peace since WWII, the greatest period, the longest period, the greatest wealth, the best opportunity for mankind to develop impossible new technologies which allow us freedom. What do we have? Giant Windmills, diesels and billions of solar panels. Disappointed, moi. What a waste. Thanks Greens. You may have doomed your own planet.

        310

        • #
          michael hart

          I’m happy to place most of the blame in the greens lap, but not all.

          The fusion research has always seemed to be a bigger design of something that worked OK-ish, with an unproven assumption that the bigger one will work better and not introduce new problems of scale.

          I think some genuine competition with smaller projects, and a first-to-market reward scheme would get it done quicker. It can be easier to improve a smaller project that already works if only a bit because backsliding is always failure. Big-project losers like to put significant resources into arguing about different degrees of failure. The mega-projects just take on a life of their own, sucking up ever greater resources into an ever bigger project as it gets ever closer to failure, despite being too big to fail. They are run by, and for, the bureaucrats.

          As Frank Herbert, author of Dune, wrote through the character of the Planetologist Kynes, “Highly organized research is guaranteed to produce nothing new.”

          90

          • #
            ivan

            Why do you think the Victorian period was the one for invention and innovation? Almost all of the scientists and inventors were individuals trying something out to see what would happen.

            Then they moved on to institutional research which brought progress to a crawl. It was the second world war that brought about the idea of throwing enough cash at a project would make thing happen faster – it did for a while.

            After that came the idea of projects with mega funding that we see today with the result that a vast amount of money gets spent on making a better widget or the next ‘big thing’ rather than any real innovation or original invention – so progress grinds to a halt.

            80

            • #
              sophocles

              … with much of that money running into lawyers’ pockets for fighting off rubbish patent claims from patent trolls etc.

              Like patenting rounded corners on smart-phone cases. Talk about `obvious.’

              70

            • #
              sophocles

              The World Bank won’t lend for new coal projects. Lending for something super-stupid and economically destructive like wind-generators or solar plates, is a different story. But to build the world’s best cheapest and most consistent power generation plants? Nah. No money. Zip. Zilch.

              So there you are.

              Could try China … :-)

              60

          • #
            Peter C

            The fusion research has always seemed to be a bigger design of something that worked OK-ish, with an unproven assumption that the bigger one will work better and not introduce new problems of scale.

            Not sure about that. Nuclear fission works ok because of the Nuclear Chain Reaction. Fusion is a much harder problem.

            Fusion works on the large scale (The Sun), where massive gravity can play a big part, but not well on a smaller scale (reactor).

            Pushing two stable hydrogen atoms together is harder than smashing an unstable Uranium atom apart. Fusion may never work here on Earth.

            On the other hand small modular fission reactors (SMRs) are well understood. The US Navy operates about 50 of them. Research there seems very worthwhile.

            80

          • #
            TdeF

            What about a $1,000,000,000,000 Prize for the invention? Mere Billion $ Prizes for any significant steps. Make it a competition universities can join, giant companies, countries. Billionaires.

            That’s still cheaper than what we spend every single year on preventing CO2 change, a completely failure.

            Given the entire point of 350,000 windmills is to reduce CO2, it would be nice if some kind scientist from the IPCC could point to the slightest impact on current world CO2. Or Climates.

            60

            • #
              TdeF

              Consider the role of computers. Simulations of nuclear reactions took huge computers. The massively parallel potential of the server farms which now exist dwarf what we ever wanted. It is surely possibly now to create virtual experiements on fusion containment, to simulate magnetic fields which do not yet exist and temperatures which are impossible without actually building anything? Give a million scientists the funding to do this, the drama and need and put them in competition teams.

              Or just build more useless windmills.

              41

              • #
                TdeF

                We might not find a way. We might find something else, by serendipity. Why wait for war? It is only the shortsightedness of politicians. Air, wind and fire. We are led by primitives, lawyers and telephone cleaners, all posing as intellectuals who care about the planet. Druids.

                60

              • #
                James Murphy

                I agree, lets have a reward which encourages competition, and diverse solutions. It has proven itself to be a winning strategy in the past.

                The accepted gospel is that the real problems with nuclear fusion are ones of engineering/materials science, rather than understanding and manipulating the physics. Fusion generates neutrons, which will inevitably weaken the material being bombarded with these – namely, the lining in the reaction chamber. Changing this liner from Carbon, to a Beryllium/Tungsten alloy allowed for big improvements in reactor performance – but of course, the fusion reaction is still not sustained for long enough to be economic, or reliable.

                Arguably, going ‘bigger’ with regards to reaction chambers will improve heat retention, thus, allow for sustained fusion reactions which generate more power than they consume… but, of course, commercial power generation via fusion remains “only 20 years away”!!!

                30

        • #
          Manfred

          TdeF take heart, natural selection will get ‘em in the end.

          ivan the weight of useful information in the basic sciences (in institutions and universities) grew to a critical tipping point during the Victorian age (1837 – 1901). Consequently, technical innovation and applications expanded exponentially.

          Germany led the sciences in the World by the end of the Victorian age. It was German scientists and German institutions and German universities that accomplished the work. Hitler’s greatest gift of to the World was the propagation of German scientists from their universities and institutions to the USA, and to the UK.

          In the first 32 years of the Nobel Prizes (1901 – 32), Germany won one third of all the prizes in science, 33 out of 100, Britain 18 and the USA 6.

          (Medawar and Pyke 2000. ‘Hitler’s Gift — Scientists who fled Nazi Germany’

          Au contraire, it is politics not science that has ground to a halt mired as it is in the dead end Green bog of prosperity wrecking ideology. Rest assured that progress does continue quite vigorously, often not in plain view nor within the purview of the low wattage spin-meisters at MSM propaganda central, here, for example, or here.

          Finally,

          So we won’t experience 100 years of progress in the 21st century—it will be more like 20,000 years of progress (at today’s rate). The “returns,” such as chip speed and cost-effectiveness, also increase exponentially. There’s even exponential growth in the rate of exponential growth. Within a few decades, machine intelligence will surpass human intelligence, leading to The Singularity MIT Technology Review (2011)

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          • #
            Sceptical Sam

            Thanks Manfred.

            I hadn’t seen that MIT article previously. Very stimulating.

            30

          • #
            ivan

            Manfred, the MIT article is being over optimistic especially when you look at education today.

            I am seeing people fresh out of university with engineering degrees that are not fit to sweep the floor in an engineering environment. There is little or no real innovation and the computer is not the be all or end all of advancement, we have to have the engineers that make thing work (I include those that develop the materials to be used, those that design the equipment as a necessary part of engineering).

            At the moment what we are seeing as progress is the taking of something existent, fiddling with it like changing the colour or shape and calling that innovation, it’s not it is just marketing. In fact most of what is considered innovation today is nothing but marketing – consider smartphones, the manufacturers bring out new models every year and people buy them in great numbers, why, the old ones still make phone calls, send texts etc. (in many cases better than the new ones)but the new is called the latest and greatest innovation… by the marketing people.

            Now if we saw an improvement in STEM subject teaching both in school and university we might see improvement. Unfortunately the 2006 film Idiocracy is looking more prophetic as time goes on.

            50

            • #
              James Murphy

              I think it is also important to note that where once, a couple of smart people were enough to fundamentally change the way we understand the world, but now, it is extremely hard to do this without a large group of people.

              This not only means having smart people, but they have to be able to cooperate. My current workplace tries to be a centre for generating, and establishing new commercial services within the oil industry. With few exceptions, I do not doubt the brains, and initiative available, but it is painfully obvious that the management of such people, and projects has been incredibly poor, with “office politics”, and blinding arrogance playing detrimental roles. One particular product has taken longer to develop than the time between the Kennedy moon mission announcement, and actually getting people there, and I can tell you it is not particularly complex, and definitely not revolutionary – and it is still not finished.

              Thankfully, it is slowly beginning to dawn on the right people that this type of attitude, expense, and timeframe is ludicrous, and results in losing money, as well as going from being the recognised industry leader in the field, to just another unexceptional service provider.

              40

    • #
      rk

      Hello Tony,
      I wonder if you have ever considered building a model of the power supply or do you know someone or group who could do it. Because politicians and everyone in the media have no idea of electro magnetic theory and it’s real world application, if the population could be shown a model on TV that could be modular and put together – say 3 to 4 metres in size showing a set of high voltage transmission lines in AC with each phase showing in light form in different colours, the voltage travelling along the wires, and dropping down at a sub station into lower volts and then to suburban distribution at 240V and how most of it is then allocated to houses down a street in single phase. It might be possible to show an open section of a copper wire in magnified form to display electrons jumping from one copper atom to the next and explaining what amperage is, a rate of flow of electrons. This could then set the stage to show what happens in blackouts, when the frequency and voltage drop, what would happen if too much solar were put onto different phases in an unregulated way and why intermittent power sends the grid unstable. Something like this is required to show people Finkel, Turnbull, Shorten and others are idiots and should not be passing laws and regulations on such critical infrastructure that they know nothing about.

      Any thoughts? It could also be done on a mobile electronic display board if you know of technical people that could build one.

      70

  • #
    Richard111

    If the internet is still available when the snow comes I’ll let you all know how my area in the the UK is coping.
    I have a standby diesel genny.

    190

    • #
      TdeF

      In sunny Australia, I have my generator ready for the summer. Not for airconditioning, just to save on candles to power the internet. Candles pollute. Made from animals too, not like clean fuel.

      110

  • #
    Another Ian

    “Virginia goes Don Quixote”

    “Democrat Ralph Northam had barely won the Virginia governor’s race when his party announced it would impose a price on greenhouse gases emissions, require a 3% per year reduction in GHG emissions, and develop a cap-and-trade scheme requiring polluters to buy credits for emitting carbon dioxide.”

    https://wattsupwiththat.com/2017/11/18/virginia-goes-don-quixote/

    101

    • #
      TdeF

      Typical! Every socialist, bleeding heart liberal progressive lefty politicians in the world enforces orthodox Global Warming carbon taxes and every free market, democratic, free thinking politician rejects it utterly. We are all supposed to believe this is Science? Rubbish.

      Oh, except for Australia where the bleeding heart liberal progressive lefty politicians are Malcolm’s Liberals who stole an election they could not win.

      310

      • #

        ‘Twas never about the science from Michael Mann’s ‘Hide the decline’
        ter Christina Figueres ‘We gotta get rid of Capitalism, sheesh!’
        Motives? Think power and le dollar.

        200

      • #
        PeterS

        In politics around much of the world a “liberal” is someone who is on the left, and opposite of a conservative. Australia is one of the very few exceptions. So Turnbull being a globalist is only doing the proper thing and realigning the Liberal Party to the consensus view of being a liberal in politics. This is why we must have a new party with the proper name. The Australian Conservatives could be such a party if enough Australian voters would simply just wake up from their slumber and switch their brain on. Of course it’s just wishful thinking and so we are stuck with two major parties on the left with no real hope for Australia. Perhaps when things are so bad and the nation desperate for change to try and avoid a complete collapse of our economy, people will finally wake up and decide to dump both major parties once and for all, and move to new ones; One Nation versus Australian Conservatives. Now that would be nice! Personally I doubt very much enough Australians can ever be that clever, but I do wish I’m wrong.

        120

        • #
          Manfred

          It’s remarkable how pecuniary adversity is inclined to sharpen the wit.
          I think the delayed response is in part due to the obvious. The standard of living is so high that it takes time to erode to the level that generates widespread dissent and dissatisfaction to a point of distress and physical reaction. It’s slowly developing though, right across the western World.

          On the other hand in China, the communist totalitarian party think that if they can meet the requirement for perfect mushrooms growth (kept in the dark and fed shaet — meeting the material needs of the masses through a quasi-free market economy and permitting travel) they will avoid / deflect their inevitable demise.

          It appears a classic case of twisted opposites.

          90

          • #
            OriginalSteve

            We have a MAJOR problem – my very smart niece ( going to be a lawyer ) who is 16 thought Communism sounded like “fun” ‘coz you had to share everything.

            It wasn’t until I pointed out under communism you can’t own anything ( including her precious iPhone ) and you are like North Korea , that she actually screwed her face up and said, “Yuck”.

            It seems clear that PEOPLE WHO ARE APPROACHING VOTING AGE DON’T KNOW WHAT COMMUNISM IS!!!!!!

            This is a major problem, as they don’t know how bad it is.

            I’m setting an assignment for all the readers here – please teach your kids and grand kids what communism is and how bad it is.

            It seems the pinkos in the education system have glorified bread queues and collectivism and teenagers have no clue that green = communism.

            100

        • #
          Roger

          @ Peter S
          Being a ‘Liberal’ is something of an oxymoron – they believe that they know best and that you must do whatever they dictate. Same as marxist-socialism really but going by another name.

          Oddly the only truly liberal philosophy is old fashioned Conservatism as practiced in the UK until David Cameron decided to move to the ‘liberal’ centre ground.

          Old fashioned conservatism believes in helping everyone to reach their full potential, to stand on their own feet and to be self-reliant but with a safety-net for those who struggle, to be able to succeed and accumulate wealth to pass on, and with the minimum amount of laws and state intervention that are necessary to maintain law and order and fair play.

          The left wing – marxist-socialist (Labour) and Liberal – rely upon creating state dependency to create a captive vote, more recently they have moved onto create political correctness and now ‘safe spaces’ to avoid people having to think for themselves or have their thoughts challenged and exposed to alternatives. The “Liberal” left-wing is all about controlling people through one means or another.

          Just like the UN inventing ‘Global Warming’ in pursuit of achieving an unaccountable, unelected, socialist-marxist style global government and using the FEAR of a “global catastrophe” that only a “global government” could prevent, as the means to achieve it.

          60

          • #
            Rereke Whakaaro

            A Conservative is generally self motivated, and feels responsible for their own lives and their own rewards for their own labour. These are the people who choose to be self employed in a business or trade, and will sometimes employ others.

            A liberal is more inclined to go with the flow of what others are doing, and just wants to fit into the general attitudes and beliefs of their social group. These are the people who expect to be employed by a Conservative boss, or to be employed by a Government Agency that interacts with other people or groups.

            These loose definitions have been around since the time of the industrial revolution, except that the liberals of today feel that they should be directing the flow, rather than just going with it.

            40

        • #
          Leonard Lane

          PeterS. I think you have a good analysis of liberals (very left left to far left)around the world are very hard to overcome. Oregon and Nevada share a border with California and Arizona shares most of its western border with California and a small part with Nevada.
          There is a term long used for these three states describing what happens when people liberal people in California move to a neighboring state to escape California. It is called Californicaton. This term was widely used in Oregon a few decades ago. Now Oregon votes left and resembles California politically. The same happened to Washington State, just north of Oregon. Nevada is in a class by itself, but politics in Nevada are drifting to the left.
          Arizona is also drifting to the left and many in Arizona are trying to fight Californication.
          Here is the way it seems to work. A family gets fed up with how bad things are in California and moves to a neighboring or nearby state. Rather than enjoying their new freedoms, they start whining, griping, voting, and filing lawsuits to make the neighboring state more like California. The left may be smart in some things (movies, high tech, etc. but they are absolute Neanderthals when it comes to politics, law, reason, justice, fairness, racism, sexism, honesty, common sense, etc., and socialism.
          They will move into a neighborhood and start griping about how their neighbors live. The push to get on home owners associations, city councils, county boards of supervisors, state legislators, etc. and start trying to make every thing just like California. This process is called Californication.
          It seems that once a person or people become leftists it sticks to them and their children. It is like a severe mental illness for which there is no cure.
          This destruction of thought, logic, fairness, etc. etc. has now afflicted the entire west coast of the United States, most of the east coast, and the inner cities of large cities between the two Left coasts.
          This is why Pres Trump was elected and why the left and corrupt Republicans are doing everything in their power to destroy Pres Trump. The fate of the USA (and other countries as well) depend on beating the left at all level of politics, the judicial system, and the media. The left can, in rare instances, be beaten peacefully. I am not sure of all the things that need to be done, and how to do them, to defeat the left; but it must be done to keep a neighborhood, city, state and country free and prosperous. But I do know that it requires a good education system and a righteous people to do it.

          40

          • #
            PeterS

            Leonard people here don’t understand that the Australian Liberals have only themselves to blame over the past few decades for not picking a more clear cut label. In other words they were very sloppy, and still are. Liberal can mean Libertarianism but even that’s not clear cut since we can have left-Libertarianism as well as right-Libertarianism. If they wanted to start out as a conservative party they just should have used the word Conservative. Too late now given we now have a new party called the Australian Conservatives. I firmly believe Australia has only one last chance to avoid both a social and an economic upheaval – and that’s to make that new party form government. I know it won’t happen for a number of reasons so we are only left with the inevitable upheavals. Too bad but that’s how the ball bounces.

            10

        • #
          clivehoskin

          The QLD election is coming up and my feeling is Pauline has a very good shot at taking a number of seats from”Pallachook”and the”Liberals”

          10

  • #
    King Geo

    I have an economic growth formula. Relevant for nations with a large surface area and population > 2 million.

    economic growth = % fossil fuel base load divided by % wind & solar base load.

    economic growth very rapid = 75-100% fossil fuel base load

    economic growth rapid = 50-75% fossil fuel base load

    economic growth subdued = 25-50% fossil fuel base load

    negative economic growth = <25% fossil fuel base load

    Applying this formula then Victoria’s future looks grim (population 5.8my). When SA (population just 1.7 my) goes into serious economic decline because of its <25% fossil fuel base load, then many folk will re-locate to WA who currently have 75-100% fossil fuel base load. It's called survival instinct.

    160

    • #
      King Geo

      The Turnbull Govt appoints Alan Finkel as the Australian Chief Scientist in January 2016. Now I have just read in Sky News this: Finkel dismisses that Govt’s assertion that the ALP’s 50% RET by 2030 is irresponsible. Well Malcolm why did you appoint Finkel in the first place, a scientist who clearly believes in CAGW. Trump would never have done this. And the Turnbull Govt wonder why they are polling 45/55 2PP – well the reason Malcolm that your polling is terminal is that many Coalition voters are AGW skeptics and you have lost their vote. The EU is a text book example why fast tracking to RE results in economic mayhem. But no Malcolm you are a “populist politician” but in this case you have got it very wrong. You see “AGW skeptics” don’t want to see the Oz Economy decimated by the ALP’s 50% RET by 2030 Policy, a policy really endorsed by the Turnbull Govt by its fatal decision to appoint a “CAGW” devoted scientist as Australian Chief Scientist.

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      • #
        Sceptical Sam

        Malcolm why did you appoint Finkel in the first place, a scientist who clearly believes in CAGW(?)

        Turnbull knew what he was doing. Finkel is Turnbull’s agent provocateur. Infiltrate, subvert.

        That’s why Turnbull has to go. And Finkel too.

        20

    • #
      ROM

      .
      King Geo @ # 6

      I have posted the URL for this paper a few times here but it seems few realise the impact of this study which found a very different economic and social outcome compared to the one the researchers expected to find before they began the study.

      Sadly for a large number of citizens at the bottom of the national economic piles the outcome of this study is becoming all too familiar amongst the nations who under their governing Elites goes under the guise of implementing a program of total “renewable energy” as the national energy source and the elimination of the use of fossil fuels, primarily coal as the nation’s and civilisation’s major energy source.
      .
      Study suggests choice between green energy or economic growth

      Poverty, unemployment and zero economic growth are the likely outcome for countries which choose renewable energy sources over fossil fuels, according to a study.

      Energy from fossil fuels appears to ignite economies into greater and more sustained growth, whereas energy from wind and solar power not only fails to enhance or promote economic growth, it actually causes economies to flat-line.

      The results, from an in-depth study of more than 100 countries over 40 years, pose a serious ethical dilemma, according to the lead author, economist Dr Nikolaos Antonakakis, Visiting Fellow at the University of Portsmouth Business School and Associate Professor at Webster Vienna University.

      Dr Antonakakis said: “Put simply, the more energy a country consumes, the more it pollutes the environment, the more its economy grows. And the more the economy grows, the more energy consumption it needs, and so on.
      “This poses big questions. Should we choose high economic growth, which brings lower unemployment and wealth for many, but which is unsustainable for the environment?
      “Or should we choose low or zero economic growth, which includes high unemployment and a greater degree of poverty, and save our environment?”

      Dr Antonakakis and co-authors, Dr Ioannis Chatziantoniou, at the University of Portsmouth, and Dr George Filis, at Bournemouth University, set out to study whether environmentally friendly forms of energy consumption were more likely to enhance economic growth.
      In the light of recent policies designed to promote the use of green energy, including tax credits for the production of renewable energy and reimbursements for the installation of renewable energy systems, the authors predicted that environmentally friendly forms of energy consumption would enhance economic growth.

      Dr Antonakakis said: “It turned out not to be the case.”

      They argue that societies now need to rethink their approach toward environmental sustainability, and strongly question the efficacy of the recent trend in many countries to promote renewable energy resources as a reliable alternative for helping achieve and maintain good economic growth.

      The researchers gathered data on gross domestic product (GDP), CO2 emissions and total and disaggregated energy consumption for 106 countries from 1971-2011.

      The results were the same across all countries, from rich to poor.

      Dr Chatziantoniou said: “It’s a very thought-provoking result and could, in a roundabout way, help explain why no country or state has yet managed to fully convert to renewable energy.
      “It could also be that we have not yet learned how to fully exploit the benefits of renewable energy – we don’t yet have the level of know-how.”

      Of the countries studied, not one showed good economic growth while promoting and investing in renewable energy.

      [ more >> ]

      To take this theme a little further; from Pierre Gosselin’s german > english “NoTricksZone” blog.

      I am seeing more and more commentary such as that below, saying straight out that Merkel’s German “Energiewende” , the “Transition to Renewable Energy” is becoming or already has become a major economic and social disaster for Germany and its citizens and its industries.
      And it seems today that despite increasing mountains of evidence from other developed nations who have moved to a policy of the full implementation of Renewable only Energy sources and a phasing out of fossil fuels program more than a couple of decades ago and the now mounting evidence of the abject failure from every angle of these Renewable Energy based national programs that this is where Australia’s political, academic and city centric Elites are determined to drive Australia and its citizens to in the next decade or so, a state which from evidence of other developed countries who have been down this route will result in a national economic recession and an Elites created energy deprivation situation and an Elites created economic and social disaster amongst the less well off of our citizens.
      .

      Wall Street Journal Calls Merkel’s Energiewende “A Meltdown” Involving “Astronomical Costs”

      Once seen as “a paragon of green energy virtue“, the Energiewende is nothing like it was sold to be by green energy hucksters. In fact things have gotten so bad that we can expect activists to grow totally silent on Germany’s Energiewende as its failure becomes glaring and embarrassing.

      The WSJ editorial boards reminds readers that Germany is not even going to come close to meeting it’s 2020 or 2030 targets, despite the hundreds of billions of euros committed to the project so far.

      No greenhouse gas reductions in 9 years

      The truth is that the lion’s share of the country’s greenhouse gas reductions happened right after 1990 when free market principles were implemented to revamp totally run-down Communist East Germany. Yet since the mass state intervention that is the Energiewende, Germany’s reductions have ground to a halt. In reality the country — under Merkel’s leadership — has not seen its emissions of greenhouse gases fall since the end of the last decade, 2009! Read here.

      “Astronomical costs”

      By any measure this is an astonishing failure of Communist dimensions. The WSJ editorial board writes of “astronomical costs” in return for nothing.

      By one estimate, businesses and households paid an extra €125 billion in increased electricity bills between 2000 and 2015 to subsidize renewables, on top of billions more in other handouts.
      &
      The WSJ editorial board writes: “No wonder voters are in revolt” and: “A new study from the RWI Leibniz Institute for Economic Research finds that 61% of Germans wouldn’t want to pay even one eurocent more per kilowatt-hour of electricity to fund more renewables.”

      The editorial board also indirectly accuses the German government of not being honest about the costs of green energies, and warns that we should expect “another voter rebellion in 2021” if Merkel “recommits to soaring energy costs and [ the elimination ] of dirty-coal electricity“.

      [ More. >> ]

      In the end the WHOLE of this renewable energy / elimination of Fossil fuels program has finally come under the solem ownership of the political, academic, bureacratic, media and business ELITES who smell profits and power over the citizens writ large with the adoption of renewable energy and the profits and their potential control over that energy and its generation and distribution.

      The ordinary citizen is now having the whole debacle of Renewable energy and coal’s sinfullness as proclaimed by the green leaning, self serving water melon Elites along with the horrendous cost of replacing reliable fossil fuels with unreliable and unpredictable Renewable Energy technologies as proclaimed by the Elites, almost one could say, forceably imposed on those ordinary citizens who are not being allowed any have say or have full access to all the information and all the pitfalls ands all the sacrifices that the Elites expect the ordinary citizen to make so that the Elites program of a full transition to renewable energy can be made.

      The sole and ONLY criteria for such a major change on our society’s energy production systems is a supposed and so far completely unproven claim that Carbon dioxide; CO2 is predicted to increase global temperatures by a so far unestablished amount at some non science specified time into the unpredictable future .

      All so that the Elite’s programs for the changing of society from a representative democracy to what they regard as being the most desireable hierarchal based socialistic society with the Elites at the sole controlling apex, the ideal society from the Elites viewpoint that they, the Elites want to see fully emplaced in all the nations of the Earth.

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        ROM mentions this: (my bolding here)

        The ordinary citizen is now having the whole debacle of Renewable energy and coal’s sinfullness as proclaimed by the green leaning, self serving water melon Elites along with the horrendous cost of replacing reliable fossil fuels with unreliable and unpredictable Renewable Energy technologies as proclaimed by the Elites, almost one could say, forceably imposed on those ordinary citizens who are not being allowed any have say or have full access to all the information and all the pitfalls…..

        And it will continue until that information becomes available.

        As to governments proclaiming the sinfulness of coal fired power, it’s all just spin, because they know and understand just how lucrative that large scale power generation really is, and the State Government in Queensland is the starkest example of just that. When you have a Government making $7.4 Million a day from selling electricity (at the wholesale price) to the retailers, and that comes out to around $2.8 BILLION a year, just from the sale of coal fired power alone, there’s no way known they will forego that, just for the sake of implementing renewable power. Note here also that most, if not all of these proposals for renewable power are privately funded by non Government entities, who will actually be competing with the Government for the dollars from the sale of that electricity, but who cares, when renewables generate so little electrical power, that any income from that cannot compete with what is being generated by coal fired power.

        If you seriously think that a Government would cut their own throat by closing down such a source of money, then you really do have rocks in your head.

        They do not want the people to know the ‘ins and outs’ of power generation of any type, because it suits their bottom line.

        Note also, a little away from this topic that the talking head who came out and supported the Federal ALP move to 50% renewables mentions wind solar blah blah blah, battery storage, blah blah blah, and in closing added this priceless little gem.

        ‘Demand Response and LOAD SHEDDING MEASURES‘.

        You know, condition the public to think that load shedding is an actual answer to what is needed. Take away your electricity, you know it’s good for you.

        Trust me, they know all right, they know. But hey, look over there!

        Tony.

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          robert rosicka

          You might hopefully be right Tony but rocks in their heads is exactly what they have , government unlike business no nothing about profit and loss , government do however excel in perceived public opinion , popularity and presstitutes .

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          • #

            Right Now, 2.55PM, Queensland time.

            Total power consumption in Queensland – 6170MW

            Total power Generation in Queensland – 7100MM (so, 115% of actual consumption)

            Hydro – 35MW and Commercial Solar – 70MW, so 100MW Renewable. (so 1.6% of actual consumption)

            All fossil Fuels generation 7100MW, and 400MW of that is from Natural Gas fired plants. Leaving 6700MW from coal fired power. (or 108% of actual consumption)

            Total being supplied into NSW – 930MW.

            So, just from coal fired power alone, the Queensland Government accrued just on $354,000 in the last HOUR.

            Nice little income, if you can get it eh!

            Why would they ever want to close down the youngest coal fired fleet in Australia.

            Tony.

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          ROM

          One small item and maybe Jo even had a post on it somewhere back in 2015, is this gem from an Indian village that one would have thought of as being pathetically grateful to have any electricity at all.

          But those Indian villagers weren’t stupid and knew exactly the flea bitten mongrel pup or maybe it would better be dscribed as another of Greenpeace’s usual “Norwegian Blue” envionmentally “dead parrots” that Greenpeace was trying to sell them so they could be used for another of Greenpeace’s usual lying propaganda pieces.. ”

          Various sources but this item from Paul Homewoods blog “ Not a lot of people know that
          .

          Indian Village Wants “Real Electricity”, Not Greenpeace’s “Fake” Solar

          Dharnai, a community of about 3,200 people in eastern India’s Bihar state, had been without electricity for three decades. So when activists with Greenpeace set up a solar-powered microgrid in July of 2014, the excitement was palpable. But, residents said, the problems started almost immediately.

          When the former chief minister of Bihar state visited to inaugurate the grid, villagers lined up to protest, chanting, “We want real electricity, not fake electricity!”

          By “real,” they meant power from the central grid, generated mostly using coal. By “fake,” they meant solar.

          Today India has plans to construct around 370 coal fired plants with 65 GW under construction and another 178 GW planned to finally begin to provide the 1.3 billion Indians who are close to passing China in total population, a reliable village level electricity supply across all of India’
          ———–

          BBC ; 2015;

          At the end of April, India cancelled the registration of nearly 9,000 foreign-funded non-governmental organisations (NGOs), saying they didn’t comply with the country’s tax codes.
          And the Indian government has singled out the environmental pressure group, Greenpeace, for special attention.
          &
          It said campaigns headed by Greenpeace and other NGOs had drained three percentage points off the nation’s annual growth rate.

          Greenpeace wouldn’t claim to have been anywhere near that influential but its campaign against the coal industry does strike at the heart of the ‘Make in India’ policy.
          Coal is the main source of power in India and is central to the BJP government’s plans to boost industrial production.
          &
          Almost half of the 1,200 new coal-fired power stations proposed around the world are in India according to the World Resources Institute.
          That’s why campaigning against the coal industry in India has been a priority for Greenpeace.

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          • #
            ROM

            Link to BBC; 2015 article above @ ; ROM # 6.2.1.2

            Why India’s government is targeting Greenpeace

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            • #
              ROM

              There is a potential major disruptor and a destroyer of everything related to both Jo’s headline post above and all our other posts on this subject which is rarely noted anywhere particularly amongst the Renewable energy pushers, acolytes and pimps.
              It is a potential energy generation technology the renewable high priests and their acolytes cannot even begin to comphrehend that will be far, far better and far, far cleaner and far cheaper and far more reliable and predictable and far less socially and environmentally disrupting and damaging than the Renewable energy they are promoting will ever be.

              That technology is Fusion technology which with a couple of dozen both research and commercialy aimed Fusion reactor projects under way plus no doubt some I haven’t found or counted , both government and privately financed, one of which will one day succeed in mantaining a continuous Fusion reactor process.

              Once that is mastered Fusion energy can then be used as both a heat source to drive steam turbines and a direct Fusion to electrical energy source to power all of manknd’s energy needs far into the future.

              Stable Fusion reactor operation with all the present programs running and the rapid advancements in magnetic confinement and plasma stability now taking place and under way plus another couple of very innovative alternative means of generating Fusion are now quite likely not very far away in both achievment and time and therfore in potential commercialisation.

              Once commercilisation of Fusion occurs then Renewable energy is dead as the prroverbial Do Do and coal and gas plants will just see out their economic generating life times as Fusion generators are developed and built everywhere across the world.

              A now close to fullfillment technology that will have the ability to destroy every single item of Renewable energy claims as promoted by the elitist greens, politicals , business and media who are staking everythng on the forced introduction of Renewable energy onto the peoples of the world.

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              • #
                Peter C

                Re Fusion!

                I refer to my comment at #3.1.1.1.2 above.

                To be fair I agree that the Hydrogen Bomb does work and is more powerful than the Uranium Bomb.

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              • #
                ROM

                Too many posts and I missed yours, Peter.

                The German “Wendelstein 7-X (W7-X)” stellerator which uses a complex twisting of the magnetic plasma containment lines to hold the plasma instead of the Tokomak type fusion reactor has already achieved 20 million degrees plasma temperatures and is looking quite promising.
                The germans claim they are on the point of maintaining their plasma temperatures for 30 minutes or more

                China’s EAST reactor has achieved 50 million degrees plasma temperatures and held those temperatures for some 102 seconds.

                The tokomak type treactors need to reach aand maintain 100 million C plasma temperatures to become practical fusion reactors.

                The Chinese claim they will reach 100 million C plasma temperatures and will be able to maintain those plasma temperatures for at least 30 minutes .

                China’s Nuclear Fusion Machine Just Smashed Germany’s Hydrogen Plasma Record

                Meanwhile back in the USA there are a couple of private Fusion reactor ventures , one of which is being backed by Bill Gates and a couple of his almost as wealthy buddies which from reports is quite a long way along the track towards reaching sustained Fusion but which use a couple of very novel ways of doing so including shock techniques that raise temperatures in a pulsed plasma by some many tens of millions of degrees.

                ——-

                Meanwhile I also are a strong believer in the small transportable, self contained, self functioning , maintenance free nuclear reactor [ They already exist and have the initial license from the americam nuclear regulatory authorities to develop the first commercial units ] allied with a distributed decentralised nuclear reactor powered Grid using many points of power input to the grid from a wide distrubution of the small widely distributed , sealed, maintence free, ten years between maintenance, transportable nuclear reactors.

                The big advantages are with the transportable module, sealed for life reactor is that when it is due for refueling and maintenance it can be detached from all of its support and power generating systems such as the steam generators and turbines and lifted out of a pit and transported to a maintenance facility.
                And a new reactor module lowered into the pit and conneced up, the change over done within a few hours at the most.

                And in the event of a major disrupting or catastrophic event, being climate, weather, geological, space based electro magnetic disruption from an orbiting hydrogen bomb [ When the russians exploded the Tsar Bomba at its 56 megatonne blast over Nova Zemlya, radio and electromagnetic communication systems across Europe and north and west North America were knocked out for some hours.

                It is supected that the two current orbiting NK satellites might be there for just that purpose, to knock out American comunications net works with nuclear blasts at high altitude if the Americans decide on doing something drastic on the NK problem.] then a distrubuted grid with a net work of small self contained and maintenance free reactors could still be supplying power or could be brought back on line to those areas that are near the fringes of the main affected area instead of having the entire grid knocked out.

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                Peter C

                Thanks ROM,

                I agree that there has been some -progress on Fusion. But it seems that even feasibility is till a long was off.

                I agree that this is where Nuclear should go right now:

                Meanwhile I also are a strong believer in the small transportable, self contained, self functioning , maintenance free nuclear reactor [ They already exist and have the initial license from the americam nuclear regulatory authorities to develop the first commercial units ] allied with a distributed decentralised nuclear reactor powered Grid using many points of power input to the grid from a wide distrubution of the small widely distributed , sealed, maintence free, ten years between maintenance, transportable nuclear reactors.

                The big advantages are with the transportable module, sealed for life reactor is that when it is due for refueling and maintenance it can be detached from all of its support and power generating systems such as the steam generators and turbines and lifted out of a pit and transported to a maintenance facility.

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          • #
            GD

            ..this gem from an Indian village that one would have thought of as being pathetically grateful to have any electricity at all. But those Indian villagers weren’t stupid..

            Bill Leak (RIP) summed it up brilliantly with this cartoon in the Australian.

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        • #
          ivan

          Tony, the big push for so called ‘smart meters’ is solely to get as many out in the homes to allow for the remote load shedding that becomes necessary when there is an over reliance on unreliable renewable energy.

          30

      • #
        Leonard Lane

        Don’t be surprised that Angela Merkel acts the way she does. She is a Communist from East Germany.

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  • #

    If somebody sent me to a conference in an exotic location, at the end of it I would enter into a non-binding agreement to phase out extra-marital affairs. This I would find very easy to adhere to, as I have never had an affair since being married. On the other hand, if it is not lavish enough I might hold out for another conference or two before signing.

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    • #
      Sceptical Sam

      But who would your agreement be with, dear Manicbeancounter? Just who would be the co-signatory?

      And, your touting of your (draft) agreement for a little while longer would ensure you never received another conference invitation.

      Such is life on the left side.

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    • #
      Graeme No.3

      Kevin Marshall:

      No need to hold out longer, these sorts of agreements are not intended to be binding, just signal you think the same as the others. That way you would be invited to more conferences aimed at forcing those who haven’t signed up to do so and getting governments to provide lots more money for further conferences.

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    Graeme#4

    Surely Norway should head the Hydro list? I believe that it’s almost 100% hydro.

    40

    • #
      toorightmate

      Graeme#4,
      I am also surprised Brazil is not high on the hydro list.
      Most of their power is from hydro stations on the Amazon.

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      • #
        TdeF

        NZ is a puzzle. Energy 54% Hydro, 6% coal. So the other huge 40%, ovine methane? Maoris?

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        • #
          Manfred

          In NZ, 85% of the electricity generated was renewable, a 35 year high
          This was due to high hydro generation. This fact is screeched incessantly.

          from a Snapshot of energy in 2016

          Energy in New Zealand (Ministry of Business Innovation and Employment)
          shows that oil, gas and geothermal provide the largest proportions of energy, followed by hydro and coal.

          Interestingly, the official line is, “Residential energy demand fell despite continued population growth” and the reasons given for this, “energy efficiency improvements, demographic changes, weather variations, or a combination of these factors”no mention of crippling prices, the 100% increase in the cost of domestic power since 2003 (against a 34% increase in the price of a standard basket of groceries).
          See: Energy in New Zealand (2017) Ministry of Business Innovation and Employment)

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        Graeme#4

        Hmm, perhaps the list is only for the 20 countries that signed, which doesn’t include Norway. Back in my box…

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      • #
        Another Ian

        TRM

        Not quite right IIRC. Find Sobradinho on Google Earth for one example.

        Also (unless they’ve changed it) part of Brasil runs on 240 volts, the other 110 volts.

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  • #
    Eddie

    A veritable coalition. Does the virtue signalling extend to stopping coal exports to the largest coal consumers, thereby condemning them to a future of non-development courtesy of wind & solar?

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    • #
      TdeF

      The great thing about virtue signalling is that the consequences of your actions are not your fault.

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      • #
        Peter C

        Are you referring to Alan Finkel’s (Chief Scientist) latest report?
        Chief Scientist Alan Finkel has contradicted the government’s claims that Labor’s 50 per cent ­renewables target by 2030 is irresponsible, issuing a major report that says it could be met easily without jeopardising reliability and without the need for significant investment in energy storage.

        Australian.com.au/national-affairs/climate/energy-report-backs-labor-renewables-target-for-2030/news-story/b2fa4d9430a63b623978b39d747e0e69

        Does he have sufficient expertise in the area of electricity generation? Can he be held in any way responsible for his advice?

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          Graeme No.3

          Did Tim Flannery suffer? (Apart from the ABC making him Australian of the Year).

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        • #

          Sorry… the report was part funded by the office of the chief scientist but it was not Finkel’s report in any way. It was by ACOLA https://acola.org.au/wp/ and was produced independently of the office.

          You are a victim of MSM hype if you think it was Finkel.

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          • #
            AndyG55

            So, from a far-left bunch of w**k** pseudo-academics..

            ….. basically meaningless.

            But we already knew that.

            21

          • #
            el gordo

            ACOLA Media Release

            ‘ACOLA undertook the Securing Australia’s Future program for the Prime Minister’s Science Engineering and Innovation Council and then the Commonwealth Science Council, through the Office of the Chief Scientist.’

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            • #

              yes … read the report. It mentions Finkel three times once a reference, once a citation and once a quote – in 145 pages. The report was reviewed by two overseas reviewers – an engineer and an economist. The authors included an economist and a chemist.

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              • #

                apologies one of three was from OS. not 2 of 2

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              • #
                el gordo

                The whole MSM seem to be running with the same slant, which is only natural.

                A couple of focus groups in Sydney and Melbourne swayed the old guys at Acola, very crude indeed.

                ‘The new report by Acola , which assessed various energy storage technologies, also probed public attitudes, with focus groups in two capital cities and with a national survey of 1,015 respondents.

                ‘The research suggests Australians favour a more ambitious renewable mix by 2030, particularly solar and wind, with significant energy storage deployed to manage grid security.’

                Guardian

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            • #

              ‘ACOLA undertook the Securing Australia’s Future program for the Prime Minister’s Science Engineering and Innovation Council and then the Commonwealth Science Council, through the Office of the Chief Scientist.’

              Nice to know the people pushing this globalist slop are independent of the people funding this globalist slop, even though all agree on the globalist slop being pushed. (By globalist slop I mean white elephants supplemented by black diesel. Lots of black diesel, currently at a low price but already unaffordable as mainstream power source.)

              The good ol’ boys, Gazprom, the Dutch Royals and oil sheiks of Araby would like to thank ACOLA, Finkel and all those Finkel-independent people who depend on Finkel.

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              • #

                good analysis of the report. You really found them out

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              • #

                And special thanks to Finkel and Finkel-funded non-Finkels from the Indian, Malaysian, Japanese, Korean and Singaporean diesel exporters. They’re hoping Australia takes inspiration from those sub-50 MW UK diesel farms which sprung up under the STOR subsidy system.

                We don’t need to read ACOLA’s slop. We just look at our power bills.

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  • #
    pat

    while this virtue signalling received a ton of press…
    FakeNewsMSM ignored this:

    18 Nov: NY Post: Why no one is talking about Trump’s game-changing deal
    By Salena Zito
    Glen Dale, W. Va. — Bad news travels fast. Good news, meanwhile, doesn’t seem to travel at all.
    Last weekend in Beijing, as part of his 12-day trip to Asia, President Trump announced that the US and China had signed an $83.7 billion deal to create a number of petrochemical projects in West Virginia over the next 20 years.
    If the agreement holds tight, it is an economic game changer for the state.

    And yet, speaking to the locals here, you wouldn’t even know it had happened.
    “I am surprised I heard nothing about it on the national news, nor in my local paper and newscasts,” said Jerald Stephens, 67, a West Virginia native and union rep, who has been a keen observer of local politics for as long as he can remember.

    The BBC and CNN covered the news in their business sections, while The New York Times picked up a short story by The Associated Press on the deal. The stories’ headlines were muted; their placement low-key.
    “One would have suspected that the prospect of an investment this large — nearly three times the total annual budget for the department of energy — would have been front-page news,” said Paul Sracic, political-science professor at nearby Youngstown State University.

    So far, the details about how China Energy will invest nearly $84 billion in West Virginia — the biggest of several deals totaling $250 billion signed by Trump in China — are scant. The first stage is reportedly scheduled to begin in the next six to eight months with the building of at least two natural gas-fired power plants likely located in Brooke and Harrison counties, both of which have suffered substantial job and population losses, as well as wage stagnation, over the past 30 years.

    It’s significant that this solid-red state, which Trump doesn’t need to woo for reelection in 2020, will benefit.
    West Virginia and the areas of Pennsylvania and Ohio that border the state represent our coal and natural-gas country…
    “We really have no influence or power here, so that is interesting to me that he still kept his promise to us, something I suspect he will likely get little credit for in the national news,” said Stephens, who voted for Trump.

    West Virginia Gov. Jim Justice has insisted that the state hasn’t offered any sweetheart deals to China Energy in return for its investment, nor have any tax breaks been extended to date. Those in West Virginia who end up getting hired, meanwhile, are not going to complain about working for an Asian superpower…

    This deal suggests that Trump hasn’t forgotten what really matters to his base, but few are giving him props for it.
    Stephens finds the lack of coverage telling. “I can guarantee you if anyone not named Trump had made this kind of deal for West Virginia, it would have at least been a panel discussion or two on a cable news channel.”
    Once again, the media is missing a story that matters to the American people outside the liberal echo chamber…
    https://nypost.com/2017/11/18/why-no-one-is-talking-about-trumps-game-changing-deal/

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      Sceptical Sam

      Thank you Pat for putting that report up.

      There’s no doubt, the MSM is the enemy of the people.

      Just like their ABC in Australia. Shut it down and shut it up!

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      • #
        GreatAuntJanet

        The Australian ain’t doing such a great job of covering it either. Most of their Trump coverage is whiny, as they still don’t seem to have got over getting everything so wrong.

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        • #
          Sceptical Sam

          That’s true. Even “The Australian” has its cadre of left-leaning journos that have the propensity to infect the host.

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          • #
            Another Ian

            It seems to me that the “Daily Murdoch” here is often a re-trumpet from that stable’s US sources.

            It is often entertaining to compare that to the same item on non-msm sources – like Trump and the feeding of fish in Japan where the non-msm sources had the full details with the cherry picked bit in context

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    pat

    Sceptical Sam -

    here’s another story FakeNewsMSM won’t touch:

    13 Nov: Daily Caller: Chuck Ross: Tom Steyer: Billionaire Democratic Donor And Fusion GPS Client
    Years before Fusion GPS became famous for its work on the Trump dossier, the opposition research firm worked for Tom Steyer, the billionaire Democratic donor currently waging a $20 million TV campaign to impeach President Trump.
    A Daily Caller investigation reveals that in 2012, Steyer, a hedge fund chieftain and environmental activist, hired Fusion GPS and its founding partner, Glenn Simpson, to conduct an investigation to help pass a ballot initiative aimed at closing a tax loophole for California businesses and funneling money to clean energy projects.

    Steyer poured $32 million into “Yes on Prop 39,” a committee he formed to support ballot initiative Proposition 39. The successful campaign made Steyer a rising star in the world of Democratic politics. The party’s most generous donor in the 2016 election cycle — giving more than $90 million to various political action committees — Steyer is said to be considering running for political office.

    The connection between Fusion GPS to Steyer and his “Yes on Prop 39” campaign has not been previously reported, and there is almost no public information linking them…
    But a Sept. 24, 2012 press release shows that Simpson, a former Wall Street Journal reporter, was part of the “Yes on Prop 39” California Tax Transparency Project team…

    Aleigha Cavalier, a spokeswoman for Steyer at NextGen America, his political action committee, declined to address specific questions for this story. Instead, she falsely alleged that “Republican operatives” leaked details of Steyer’s relationship with Fusion GPS…

    There is no indication that Fusion GPS, Simpson, or Steyer did anything improper in the “Yes on Prop 39” endeavor. But there is evidence that the initiative has fallen far short of what California voters were promised.

    The Associated Press reported (LINK) in Aug. 2015 that a portion of Prop 39 that promised to created 11,000 clean energy jobs per year had only created 1,700 jobs after three years. And more than half of the $300 million promised to public schools to improve energy efficiency had gone to consultants and energy auditors…
    http://dailycaller.com/2017/11/13/tom-steyer-billionaire-democratic-donor-and-fusion-gps-client/

    Aug 2015: AP: Lawmakers call for oversight hearings on green jobs measure
    by JULIA HOROWITZ
    SACRAMENTO, Calif. — California lawmakers from both parties are calling for more stringent oversight of a clean jobs initiative after an Associated Press report found that a fraction of the promised jobs have been created.
    The report also found that the state has no comprehensive list to show much work has been done or energy saved, three years after voters approved a ballot measure to raise taxes on corporations and generate clean-energy jobs…

    The AP reported that three years after voters passed Proposition 39, money is trickling in at a slower-than-anticipated rate, and more than half of the $297 million given to schools so far has gone to consultants and energy auditors. The board created to oversee the project and submit annual progress reports to the Legislature has never met…

    Voters in 2012 approved the Clean Energy Jobs Act by a large margin, closing a tax loophole for multistate corporations. The Legislature decided to send half the money to fund clean energy projects in schools, promising to generate more than 11,000 jobs each year.
    Instead, only 1,700 jobs have been created in three years, raising concerns about whether the money is accomplishing what voters were promised…

    The proposition is also bringing in millions less each year than initially projected. Proponents told voters in 2012 that it would send up to $550 million annually to the Clean Jobs Energy Fund. But it brought in just $381 million in 2013, $279 million in 2014 and $313 million in 2015…

    School district officials around the state say they intend to meet a 2018 deadline to request funds and a 2020 deadline to complete projects. They say the money will go to major, long-needed projects and are unconcerned schools have applied for only half of the $973 million available so far, or that $153 million of the $297 million given to schools has gone for energy planning by consultants and auditors…
    https://apnews.com/f9777e5ea1f6484a99f19c94d0f9a5fe/ap-exclusive-california-measure-fails-create-green-jobs

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  • #

    An old French writer said we often claim to be leaving our vices when it is our vices which are leaving us.

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    • #
      Sceptical Sam

      “Old” being the operative word then?

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      • #
        michael hart

        I’m very happy with my randomly assigned avatar here. It makes me feel younger when I post at Jonova, and certainly seems to reflect what I like to think about myself. But it may also mean I keep my vices longer than I perhaps should.

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  • #
    Richard Ilfeld

    We have left virtue signaling behind.
    It is now virtue bludgeoning.
    Being accompanied by virtue legislation.
    Leading to virtuous desolation, most likely.

    Some good old fashioned vices seem pretty appealing right now.

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    An island is much easier to power with a nuclear reactor anyway. Bankrupt Puerto Rico put its faith in econazi flim-flams and is today immersed in a new version of the Dark Ages. While hurricanes minced its bird-mincing windmills and scattered subsidized photovoltaic panels like so many broken seashells, the nearby South Texas Nuclear Project reactors just outside Houston weathered the direct hit by hurricanes they were designed to withstand, even after 25 years of flawlessly lighting up much of the largest of These States. Reactors in Florida would have done the same if not interfered with by lynch mobs from the Amory Lovins College of Imaginary Electrodynamics. Still, once the Luddites cleared away, those reactors were up and running again in no time, lighting up all areas where transmission lines could carry power. Prayer, fasting, abstinence and socialism have yet to make Puerto Rico look any different from North Korea on nighttime satellite images.

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    Reed Coray

    This is another example of what I believe and what I’ve said in the past: When trying to convince the general public that AGW is a problem, presentation trumps substance.

    100

  • #
    Bite Back

    This champion of the move away from coal is 98% powered by diesel. Everybody Cheer!

    I would cheer except that I’m quite sure Joanne would not allow the necessary wording for the cheer.

    I’m underwhelmed at the useless political correctness. Sometimes I wonder why I read this stuff. The world never changes.

    BB

    70

  • #
    Dennis

    Labor’s renewables target (50%) backed.

    DAVID UREN
    Chief Scientist Alan Finkel says Labor’s 2030 renewable energy target could be met easily.

    40

    • #
    • #
      David Maddison

      There is possibly some truth to that. As Australian industry shuts down due to expensive “renewables” more of the limited power production becomes available for domestic consumers.

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    • #
      robert rosicka

      Just seen the report on tv , Finkel says we could be 50% renewable energy with no trouble , is the good scientist having trouble with senility because we know he can’t count ?

      90

      • #
        robert rosicka

        Actually his words seem to be ” we could reliably have 50% renewable ” , now I’m thinking is that reliably for 50% of the time ?

        70

      • #
        toorightmate

        Robert r,
        Finkel might become a good battery,
        He’s no good for anything else.

        21

    • #
      David Maddison

      When they say 50% renewable they never say if it is 50% nameplate or 50% of actual electricity production. Of course, if it is 50% nameplate it will be still only be a few percent of total electricity productiom because no matter how many bird choppers you have, even over a continental land mass like Australia the wind tends to be either all blowing or all not blowing so there will be nothing produced around 70% of the time and perhaps too much the rest of the time.

      How is Australia continuing to allow politicians and politician “scientists” to continue to make science and engineering decisions without any proper analysis, especially when they clearly have no clue?

      111

      • #
        Graeme No.3

        David Maddison:

        I don’t like to spoil your day but they do mean 50% of production. They ASSUME that means 50% reduction in CO2 without considering backup. Hence the rejoicing by Jay the dill about South Australia getting to his 40% target – you must remember that, a month or two before the Statewide blackout, followed by the much longer blackout shortly after.
        And you mustn’t mention the emissions of the diesel generators and diesel fired OCGTs hastily installed to try and prevent blackouts before the coming election (big blackouts, not the 5 small ones I’ve had this year).

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      Bulldust

      Here’s a link for the fink:

      http://www.abc.net.au/news/2017-11-20/energy-storage-needed-to-keep-bills-down-finkel-report-warns/9167610

      To get cheaper electricity we have to subsidise storage for renewable power … apparently. Apparently Finkel has zero understanding of economics.

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    • #
      Peter C

      Should the Chief Scientist publish this?

      “Chief Scientist Alan Finkel has contradicted the government’s claims that Labor’s 50 per cent ­renewables target by 2030 is irresponsible, issuing a major report that says it could be met easily without jeopardising reliability and without the need for significant investment in energy storage.”

      http://www.theaustralian.com.au/national-affairs/climate/energy-report-backs-labor-renewables-target-for-2030/news-story/b2fa4d9430a63b623978b39d747e0e69

      Does he have sufficient expertise in the area of electricity generation? Can he be held in any way responsible for his advice?

      50

    • #

      just pasting in case you want to blame the MSM again for your misinformed comments…

      Sorry… the report was part funded by the office of the chief scientist but it was not Finkel’s report in any way. It was by ACOLA https://acola.org.au/wp/ and was produced independently of the office.

      You are a victim of MSM hype if you think it was Finkel.

      02

      • #
        robert rosicka

        It’s hard to believe the same group that produced this rubbish are pro fracking !

        00

        • #
          robert rosicka

          But then wait a minute if they’re pro fracking and want a reduction of 50% coal use for power generation could it be they have an ulterior motive ?

          20

  • #
    Another Ian

    Somewhat o/t

    “Ontario Wind Can Power Less Than 5,000 Cars
    Posted on November 19, 2017 by tonyheller

    Wind power in Ontario is currently producing 675 MW.”

    https://realclimatescience.com/2017/11/ontario-wind-can-power-less-than-5000-cars/

    Looks like a statistic that could be useful to track here

    70

    • #
      Dennis

      Cam says:
      November 19, 2017 at 3:57 pm
      The entire Ontario power grid could only power 193,600 Tesla’s per hour with nothing left over for anything else. Considering there are over 8 million vehicles (cars and trucks included) in Ontario, it’s pie in the sky thinking that electric cars are the future without a massive nuclear build out. You would need about one and a half full grids just to power the vehicles.

      Reply
      Squidly says:
      November 19, 2017 at 4:33 pm
      Oh, but Tony, you’re forgetting about the golf carts!!! … don’t power cars, power golf carts!!!

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      • #
        ROM

        And don’t forget the “gophers”!

        For the less knowledgeable on Australian slang , the old guys and gals essential get abouts, those electrically powered dodge-ems, the “Mobility scooters”.

        20

        • #
          Peter C

          Mobility Scooters! Can I have One!

          My favorite story is about a lady who had a minor faint in my clinic. We observed her for 30 minutes and she seemed fine so I said to her; “how are you getting home?” She said she was driving on her scooter. I asked how far and she said 9km! I let her go. I assume that she made it home.

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          • #
            ROM

            Yeh! My wife who has had her license pulled by her aforesaid husband and family which led to very considerable domestic discord, has recently been the recipient of a new scooter , one with a roof of all things which she seems to think will protect her in a high speed rollover.

            High speed about 15 clicks, being the operative word here.
            Range I think with new full batteries is given at around 40 kms.

            I’ve nearly been skittled in Horsham a number of times by flying 80 plus year olds on their hot gophers !

            And thats despite rules and etc saying walking pace is it for gophers when on footpaths.

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            • #
              Dennis

              I encountered an elderly man on a low flying Scooter cornering right driving hard right as I approached from the opposite direction on foot about to turn hard left.

              On his head was a golfing cap with the words “Thinking Cap”.

              30

  • #
    Graham Richards

    How many MSM publications will print the? Will any TV channel s carry here facts?
    Yeah & pigs will fly!

    70

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    David Maddison

    The EU even has its filthy hands on Niue and has funded solar panels there. It is also said to have one of the highest level of GHG emissions per capita in the world. It plans to become 80% renewable by 2025.

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Niue

    41

  • #
    TedM

    Good to see that Norway nearly all hydro, and Iceland nearly all geothermal didn’t become part of the con.

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    David Maddison

    The Greentards are always happy when power consumption drops but this only happens due to high prices and since there is a direct correlation between energy consumption and standard of living what they are really celebrating is a drop in the standard of living, which, of course, is the plan.

    41

  • #
    jorgekafkazar

    Nuie…is 98% powered by diesel.
    Everybody Cheer!

    ʸᵃʸ

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    pat

    20 Nov: Australian: Graham Lloyd: Energy storage is the big hope in power dreams
    There are plenty of mixed messages and political pitfalls in today’s report into energy storage that has been ticked off by Chief Scientist Alan Finkel.
    The starting point is that Australia’s electricity sector will get a minimum 35 per cent and potentially 75 per cent of power from ­renewable sources by 2030. South Australia and Tasmania could be as high as 100 per cent by this time.
    To achieve it, storage costs alone could top $22 billion.

    The report, compiled by the Australian Council of Learned Academies, says this spending will be critical to make intermittent wind and solar power possible at this scale.
    Also critical would be “financial incentives” for either states or the private sector to build the level of storage required. Without storage, the council report says, the costs of electricity in Australia will continue to increase with “large negative implications” for the Aust­ralian economy…READ ON
    http://www.theaustralian.com.au/news/inquirer/energy-storage-is-the-big-hope-in-power-dreams/news-story/aa49192278066aefa798a2dd5d35ddaa

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  • #
    pat

    19 Nov: Adelaide Advertiser: Batteries, hydro could have prevented South Australia’s statewide blackout, expert report says — but it would be hugely expensive
    by Sheradyn Holderhead & Peter Jean
    The independent expert study found $800 million could buy 600 megawatts of fast-responding batteries — six times the Tesla battery in Jamestown — which would have stopped widespread blackouts.
    The State Government will likely seize on the report to back its $550 million energy plan announced this year which includes a 100MW battery and grant funding for other storage projects.
    But critics will say it shows SA’s rush into renewable energy could have been better planned to prevent the power crisis that swept the state last summer…

    The Australian Council of Learned Academies report being released today found it would cost $36.5 billion for pumped hydro and batteries needed to make the national grid secure and reliable if 75 per cent of power was from renewables…

    An expert panel, led by Dr Bruce Godfrey, found that 600 megawatts of battery storage could have prevented the September 28, 2016 blackout.
    The batteries could also ensure SA had uninterrupted electricity supplies for two hours if the interconnector with Victoria failed…

    The report is being released ahead of a crucial energy policy meeting between federal and state ministers in Hobart on Friday. It also found that wind generation which shut down during the 2016 blackout “could have been part of a solution’’.
    “Had the correct fault settings been in place to ride through the voltage disturbance, the more recently installed wind turbines could themselves have provided synthetic inertia with suitable control settings,’ the report said.

    Increasing the proportion of electricity sourced from renewables in Australia to 75 per cent would require a massive increase in storage from about 1.3 GW to 35.2 GW. About 2 GW of that would likely come from the massive expansion of the Snowy Mountains pumped hydro project.
    http://www.adelaidenow.com.au/news/south-australia/batteries-hydro-could-have-prevented-south-australias-statewide-blackout-expert-report-says-but-it-would-be-hugely-expensive/news-story/2c93906badc790e5bc8fe37462491020

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    • #
      ROM

      And in 20 years the turbines and solar panels have to be replaced at costs that will likely equal after adjustment for inflation, the original price or more likely an even higher price.

      Plus the additional cost, never mentioned of course, of the expensive burial disposing of the non recyclable components of the turbines, the potentially long term toxic resin and glass and carbon fibre blades and nacelle coverngs.
      And if deemed necessary and it will be necessary in some situations, the breaking up and digging up of hundreds tonnes of the concrete foundations of some of the turbines.
      .

      With solar panels after about twenty to twenty five years max, the disposing of thousands of tonnes of glass panels covered with what are highly toxic and economically non recoverable metals that under some environmentally harsh exposure conditions can break down and be washed from the aged, disposed of solar panels into water ways if not disposed off very carefully.
      .

      All costs for which there has been NO accounting at all for by either the Renewable energy industry or its Elitist promoters in politics, media , business , greens and etc.

      And to top it all off, in about a decade or so, maybe a couple of years longer, consideration will have to be given to the costs of a mandatory replacement of the entire battery complex that will have to be implemented as the batteries begin to fail after both running through a number of charge / discharge cycles and the chemicals and metals of the internals of the batteries begin to break down due to aging and exposure to the toxic battery chemicals .
      .

      All of which will then entail the disposal / limited recycling of hundreds of tonnes of old batteries in an unknown state and possibly thousands of cells, each using, with today’s technology, some highly toxic metals and chemicals for their operation and all of which might be quite dangerous if not handled correctly due to stray and potentially lethal voltage surges and all of which might be potentially highly contaminating environmentally if not stored or disposed off through either recycling for a part of the battery metals or by burial in land fill.
      .

      Just another few of a whole series of undefined, longer term, end of economic life costs that the Renewable Energy industry and its pushers and pimps have failed, no doubt deliberately, to include in the mounting costs of transitioning to Renewable Energy.

      All paid for of course by the consumer / tax payer as governments are so myopic, so short sighted and so basically ignorant when it comes to the totaling the all inclusive long term costs of a Renewable energy future that they completely avoid or are criminally ignorant of the costs , including the short term, the long term and the repeatable and quite significant costs of the Renewable Energy technologies that they, the Elites are seeking to impose onto the populace without a shred of scientific or moral justification for doing so.

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      • #
        Another Ian

        ROM

        Sounds like the usual modelling dictum “If in doubt leave it out”

        No wonder they think agriculture is easy

        20

    • #
      Curious George

      “An expert panel, led by Dr Bruce Godfrey, found that 600 megawatts of battery storage could have prevented the September 28, 2016 blackout.”

      Expert panel actually needs 600 kilometers of battery storage.

      20

  • #
    pat

    no download for report as yet; maybe there will be soon as it was to be presented at 11am today AEDT:

    ACOLA: Energy Storage: Opportunities and Challenges of Deployment in Australia
    Delivered as a partnership between Australia’s Chief Scientist and ACOLA, the Energy Storage project studies the transformative role that energy storage may play in Australia’s energy systems; future economic opportunities and challenges; and current state of and future trends in energy storage technologies and their underpinning sciences…

    Expert Working Group
    •Dr Bruce Godfrey FTSE (Chair)
    •Professor Robyn Dowling
    •Professor Maria Forsyth FAA
    •Professor R Quentin Grafton FASSA
    http://acola.org.au/wp/esp/

    read all:

    20 Nov: RenewEconomy: Giles Parkinson: New Finkel report finds no need to panic about energy storage
    The report, The role of Energy Storage in Australia’s Future Energy Supply Mix, funded by Finkel’s office and the Australian Council of Learned Academies (ACOLA), says the required investment in energy security and reliability over the next 5-10 years will be minimal (see graph above), even if wind and solar deployment moves far beyond levels contemplated by the Energy Security Board.

    The contrast with the ESB modelling – and the attempts by Coalition parties at state and federal level to dismiss high levels of renewable energy as “reckless’ – could not be more pronounced.

    While the ESB, in arguing for a National Energy Guarantee, speaks of the system threats and urgency to act with a level of “variable” renewables accounting for between 18 and 24 per cent of total generation, this new report says surprising little storage may be needed with 35 per cent to 50 per cent wind and solar…

    “The modelling provides reassurance that both reliability and security requirements may be met with readily available technologies,” it says.
    “Nationally and regionally, the electricity system can reach penetrations of renewable energy close to 50 per cent without significant requirements for energy reliability storage.
    “Reliability problems, such as those that recently occurred in South Australia and New South Wales, can be responded to quickly and effectively with appropriate storage.”…

    Yes, the report says, sensible policies are needed to provide a market signal, and the opportunities are boundless. But it does not suggest that wind and solar farms should be penalised for not having storage, or should be made to appear or act like coal fired power stations…

    This graph illustrates the cost of meeting security and reliability needs for 50 per cent wind and solar – just $10.7 billion if batteries alone. And most of these could be installed behind the meter.
    “These numbers are not so huge that we have to go gasp, at least compared to what we are spending anyway on networks,” lead author Professor Bruce Godfrey said…
    http://reneweconomy.com.au/new-finkel-report-finds-no-need-to-panic-about-energy-storage-42755/

    20

    • #
      pat

      download is available. click on the 145-page report cover under the headline. (it shows as 158-page when I opened it, but never mind).

      Acknoweledgements:
      ACOLA and the Expert Working Group offer their sincere gratitude to the principal consultants, experts and research assistants who have contributed to this report, and to the many stakeholders who provided input to the project through interviews, workshops, consultation sessions and surveys.
      Special thanks go to ARENA for both its financial and in-kind support. The intellectual contributions made by Dan Sturrock and Scott Beltman were greatly valued.
      ACOLA and the Expert Working Group would like to gratefully acknowledge the significant contributions of Irene Wyld for her diligence and support in developing this report.
      The ACOLA Secretariat, and in particular Dr Lauren Palmer and Dr Angus Henderson, also made significant contributions to supporting the EWG and managing the research project.
      Further details of the extensive consultation can be found under Evidence Gathering. The views expressed in the report do not necessarily reflect the views of the individuals or organisations listed..

      10

    • #
      robert rosicka

      Time for Turdball to grow a pair and sack this incompetent hack or move over and let someone else do it for the good of the nation .

      21

  • #
    RickWilll

    We know South Australia is the leader of the world when it comes to wind and solar share of their electricity market. In 2016 intermittent generators managed 39% market share. That has come at a high cost to the State with heavy industry shutting down or requiring government direct support to keep the lights on.

    The success of the efforts to cut CO2 output in the State is aptly supported by the achievement.
    In 2000 the state produced 30.7Mt of CO2.
    In 2015 the state had reduced that to 30.1Mt of CO2.
    http://www.environment.gov.au/system/files/resources/15d47b77-dee2-42c6-bf2e-6d73e661f99a/files/state-inventory-2015.pdf

    So at the cost of converting the SA economy into a global basket case the CO2 has been reduced by 2%! I would be surprised to find any South Australian taking any pride in that result.

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  • #
    pat

    20 Nov: ABC: Alan Finkel pushes for more energy storage to keep bills down and maintain reliability
    Power bills will go up and energy supply will be less reliable unless Australia develops better storage systems, according to Chief Scientist Alan Finkel.
    A new report from Dr Finkel’s office and the Australian Council of Learned Academics (ACOLA), due to be published later today, warns planning and investment are needed to prevent power costs continuing to rise and to shore up reliability.
    The reliability of renewable energy relies on energy storage, particularly on days when the sun does not shine or the wind does not blow

    In addition to battery storage, which today’s report said was the most cost-effective way to strengthen energy security, it also listed alternatives including fast-start gas turbines, spinning reserves in wind turbines, demand response and load shedding measures…

    Under the NEG 28 to 36 per cent of power generation is projected to come from renewables by 2030.
    Climate Council modelling shows that means Australia will miss out on between 6,000 and 20,000 new jobs that would have otherwise been created.
    Andrew Stock, who has decades of experience in the energy sector and sits on the council, says at ***least 50 per cent of power generation should be renewable by 2030.
    “The current aspiration level that the Federal Government is talking about, that’s way too short of what’s required, so we need more aspirational plans for electricity. That will bring more jobs, up to 20,000 more jobs in this sector,” he told AM.
    The Chief Scientist’s report said this target could be easily met without risking reliability or requiring further significant investment in energy storage.
    http://www.abc.net.au/news/2017-11-20/energy-storage-needed-to-keep-bills-down-finkel-report-warns/9167610

    ***how convenient in the very week of the Queensland election. there was free P.R. for Qld Labor/Greens all over the MSM today.

    30

    • #
      pat

      note ABC wrongly writes ACADEMICS: “Australian Council of Learned ACADEMICS (ACOLA)” instead of ACADEMIES. LOL.

      note ABC AM today had these pieces back to back:

      no opposing view:

      20 Nov: ABC AM: Energy on the agenda ahead of COAG meeting
      By Lexi Metherell
      COAG energy ministers are preparing to meet on Friday to discuss the Federal Government’s National Energy Guarantee.
      Ahead of the meeting, environmental groups are stating their cases for more renewable energy while a report commissioned by the Chief Scientist emphasises the need to focus on energy storage.
      Duration: 2min 44sec

      Featured:
      Andrew Stock, councillor, Climate Council
      Kelly O’Shanassy, chief executive, Australian Conservation Foundation
      Dr Bruce Godfrey, chair, Australian Council of Learned Academies expert working group
      http://www.abc.net.au/radio/programs/am/energy-on-the-agenda-ahead-of-coag-meeting/9167264

      note – Labor wants to cut electricity bills with more renewables, whilst the LNP simply wants more coal!

      20 Nov: ABC AM: Energy policy the battleground for major parties in Qld election
      By Katherine Gregory
      Soaring power prices remains one of the main factor driving Queenslanders’ voting decisions in this election.
      The Labor government is pushing renewable energy as the solution and some consumers say solar is already making a positive difference; however, the LNP wants to scrap Labor’s renewable targets and focus more on coal.
      But it might be the minor parties with the ultimate answer, which is a promise to stop profiteering from the electricity grid.
      Duration: 3min 28sec

      Featured:
      Hugh Grant, Executive Director of ResponseAbility
      Paul Casbolt, solar consumer
      Ian Rizzoli, small business owner
      http://www.abc.net.au/radio/programs/am/energy-policy-the-battleground-for-major-parties-in-qld-election/9167498

      20

  • #
    pat

    6 Nov: Renew Economy: South Australia’s stunning transition to consumer-powered grid
    By Giles Parkinson
    South Australia is already being hailed – or in some quarters demonised – for its leadership on renewable energy technology. But a new report from the Australian Energy Market Operator highlights how far out front it is in the tradition to a consumer-powered grid…

    Major studies by the likes of the CSIRO and the networks association predict that by 2050, half of all demand will be met by what they describe as “distributed generation” – a mix of rooftop solar, battery storage, and “localised” generation.
    This represents a major shift from the recent and current state of the industry from centralised energy controlled by major corporations, to local supply and demand – leading to new players and new business models.
    But in South Australia – as is the case with so much of the energy transition – it could come quicker than that. By 2025/26, AEMO says rooftop solar could generate 2,500GWh a year. That would be around 22 per cent of total demand in the state…

    ***Professor Ross Garnaut, the eminent professor whose solar and storage company Zen Energy is at the heart of the Liberty Onesteel proposal, describes this as an “historic re-ordering of South Australia’s position in the National Electricity Market”.
    In a speech in Perth on Friday, Garnaut noted that the S.A. had always had higher prices than other states – in 2000 they were twice the price of other states due to the small number of powerful generators that could set the price in the market.
    This was now changing as more renewables came into the market, and he said concerns about the reliability of the grid in S.A. were also overblown. (See this slide from his speech above).
    “I think perceptions are a bit out of date,” Garnaut said…

    Battery storage will also play an interesting role. South Australia has the Tesla big battery under construction – and due to be in operation in three weeks – as well as two other grid-scale batteries at Wattle Point wind farm, and proposed for Whyalla…
    http://reneweconomy.com.au/south-australias-stunning-transition-to-consumer-powered-grid-20463/

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    • #
      RickWilll

      This post and the one above at #26 are at odds. Why spend all the money on grid stability when people can set up their own home based generation and storage producing at lower unit cost than the grid can. There is no sense having a national grid when the generation is highly distributed.

      The huge cost being spent on strengthening the grid to all these generating sites that can go from zero to overload in a few minutes is all being wasted. Households will leave the grid and produce their own power at lower cost.

      There is no way I would be letting the grid operator cycle my battery for grid stability. Batteries are expensive and the amount of energy cycled through them affects their operating life. Having spent money on a battery I am controlling its cycling and want to have stored energy when needed to keep my lights on.

      At some point the nutters dreaming up this stuff have to realise the inconsistencies. There is no way that tens of billions of dollars being invested in power networks right now will lower electricity costs.

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        robert rosicka

        And therein lies the problem Rick , why should the people have to arrange their own power generation when it’s the job of the government to do it for us and do it for us using the cheapest form of energy generation they can .

        60

        • #
          RickWilll

          State governments opted out of power generation and distribution about 3 decades ago. It is evident that no one in any government in Australia have the slightest clue on the power supply system.

          50

      • #
        James Murphy

        It’s almost the first question I ask the more rabid proponents of an immediate switch to “renewables”. Why do you expect your electricity bills to decrease when you are demanding that another layer of infrastructure be added to the national grid?”

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  • #
    pat

    environmentalism gone mad. allegedly, small business will be charged every month!

    AUDIO: 12mins37secs: 20 Nov: 2GB: Alan Jones: NSW Container Deposit Scheme shows “Mugabe is alive and well”
    On December 1, 800 recycling depots will open across New South Wales as part of the ‘Return and Earn’ Container Deposit Scheme.
    The public will be able to return eligible containers for a 10 cent refund, not in cash, but in the form of a charitable donation, a Woolworths voucher or a PayPal transfer.
    But, the government has handed control of the scheme to big businesses within the industry.
    A consortium including Coca Cola, Carlton and United Breweries, Coopers, Asahi and Lion are entirely responsible for implementing and monitoring the program.
    As a result, the cost is being passed on to small businesses and in turn to the consumer.

    Larry Hetherington owns a fresh juice company called Bevco that employs 50 people across New South Wales and Brisbane.
    He’s been charged $35,000 for the first month of the scheme alone.
    Sam Lentini runs a small family juice business on the New South Wales Central Coast and has been charged almost $75,000 for the first month.
    Hear both of their stories below.
    http://www.2gb.com/nsw-container-deposit-scheme-shows-mugabe-is-alive-and-well/

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  • #
    pat

    the most honest headline:

    20 Nov: Sky News: AAP: Finkel backs Labor’s 50% renewables target
    Chief Scientist Alan Finkel has contradicted the government’s claims that Labor’s 50 per cent renewables target by 2030 is irresponsible, issuing a major report that says it could be met easily without jeopardising reliability and without the need for significant investment in energy storage…

    A second report released on Monday also believes Australia has the potential to lead the world in developing large and home scale energy storage systems if public uncertainty can be overcome.
    Both reports will give the COAG Energy Council food for thought when it meets in Hobart on Friday to discuss the federal government’s national energy guarantee…

    A report by the Australian Council of Learned Academies also warns that without proper planning and investment in energy storage, electricity costs in Australia will continue to rise and electricity supply will become less reliable.
    The report finds while the public has some awareness of energy storage, such as batteries and pumped hydro, it has very limited knowledge of other emerging technologies such as renewable hydrogen.
    There is also a reluctance from consumers to install batteries at home for perceived safety reasons.
    ‘This report clearly shows the two sides of the coin – that energy storage is an enormous opportunity for Australia, but there is work to be done to build consumer confidence,’ the council’s expert working group chair Bruce Godfrey said.
    ‘The best way to change attitudes is to increase understanding about energy storage.’…

    Dr Finkel: ‘We have great advantages in the rapidly expanding field of lithium production and the emerging field of renewable hydrogen with export opportunities to Asia’.
    http://www.skynews.com.au/news/top-stories/2017/11/20/finkel-backs-labor-s-2030-renewables-target.html

    Encyclopedia of Australian Science: Australian Council of Learned Academies
    Australian Council of Learned Academies was formed by the renaming of the National Academies Forum. The Council involves the Australian Academy of Science, the Academy of Social Sciences in Australia, the Australian Academy of Technological Sciences and Engineering, and the Australian Academy of the Humanities.

    Nov 2016: Australian Academy of Science: Sustainability focus for new program launched by Academy
    The Future Earth Program, which brings together thousands of researchers and billions of dollars of sustainability research from across the world, was launched in Australia today.
    The Academy has appointed Dr Imran Ahmad to lead this ambitious program following support from CSIRO, the University of Queensland, Macquarie University and the University of Sydney.
    Future Earth will take a uniquely holistic approach to address some of humanity’s most complex problems, such as climate change, food security and water supply, by integrating physical sciences with the social sciences and humanities…

    The launch of the Future Earth program follows an initial 18-month consultation and planning process involving each of Australia’s learned Academies that was funded by the ***Australian Council of Learned Academies (ACOLA).

    More information and a copy of the Future Earth Australia strategic plan can be found on their website ***(LINK).
    https://www.science.org.au/news-and-events/news-and-media-releases/sustainability-focus-new-program-launched-academy

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      robert rosicka

      I’m not sure they could do more harm to the grid if they tried , who is the Fink and who is paying him or is he really that stupid he believes what he is saying ?

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    pat

    19 Nov: Deutsche Welle: Germany elections: Preliminary coalition talks collapse after FDP walks out
    by dm/se (AP, AFP, dpa, Reuters) (This is a breaking news story. We are updating this article as information comes in)
    Germany’s Free Democrats have called off coalition talks with Angela Merkel’s CDU/CSU bloc and the Greens. FDP head Christian Lindner said that after weeks of negotiations the parties could not find a “basis of trust.”
    Germany was thrust into uncertainty early Monday morning after a month of four party exploratory talks to form a so-called Jamaica coalition collapsed…

    An hour earlier, FDP head Christian Lindner announced that his party had walked out of the negotiations after “reached compromises were questioned again.”
    “It is better not to rule than to rule wrongly,” he said.

    What next for Merkel?
    While Merkel will remain acting chancellor, it remains unclear where this leaves her prospects of forming a new government.
    Her conservatives could choose to enter talks with just the Greens to form a minority government.
    Alternatively, she may try to convince the Social Democrats (SPD) , who were the second-biggest party in the September election, to join her to form a second consecutive grand coalition. However, after suffering a humiliating election loss in September, the SPD has repeatedly reaffirmed that its role in the upcoming Bundestag will be in the opposition.
    Should both options fail, then a return to the polls in the new year remains the only viable option…

    Merkel said said would inform on Monday President Frank-Walter Steinmeier, who has the power to call new elections, of the failure of the coalition talks.
    This suggests that a minority government with the Greens may be out of the question and the country could be heading for a new election…
    http://www.dw.com/en/germany-elections-preliminary-coalition-talks-collapse-after-fdp-walks-out/a-41445987

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    pat

    the other phony COP23-timed story:

    8 Nov: Bloomberg: Norway Idea to Exit Oil Stocks Is ‘Shot Heard Around the World’
    By Joe Ryan and Anna Hirtenstein With assistance by Jess Shankleman, Javier Blas, and Sveinung Sleire
    Norway’s ***proposal to sell off $35 billion in oil and natural gas stocks brings sudden and unparalleled heft to a once-grassroots movement to enlist investors in the fight against climate change…
    The Nordic nation’s $1 trillion sovereign wealth fund said Thursday that it’s ***considering unloading its shares of Exxon Mobil Corp., Royal Dutch Shell Plc and other oil giants to diversify its holdings and guard against drops in crude prices.
    European oil stocks fell.
    “This is an enormous change,” said Mindy Lubber, president of Ceres, a non-profit that advocates for sustainable investing. “It’s a shot heard around the world.”…

    Norway’s Finance Ministry, which oversees the fund, said it will study the proposal and will take at least a year to decide what to do. The fund has already sold off most of its coal stocks…
    “People are starting to recognize the risks of oil and gas,” said Jason Disterhoft of the Rainforest Action Network, which pushes banks to divest from fossil fuels…
    “The divestment movement just got some new juice,” said Jamie Webster, a fellow at the Center on Global Energy Policy at Columbia University…

    ***While environmentalists heralded the fund’s proposal, the move has more to do with hedging risk than saving the planet. Norway derives about 20 percent of its economic output from oil and gas. Finance officials have long debated whether reinvesting those profits back into petroleum producers leaves Norwegians overly exposed to the volatility of oil prices..

    It won’t happen quickly, said Per Magnus Nysveen, senior partner and head of analysis at the Oslo-based consulting company Rystad Energy. Norway’s positions in oil companies are vast, and finance ministers will unload their shares gradually if they want to maximize returns, Nysveen said.

    ***“We are taking about years rather than months or quarters,” he said. “This has nothing to do with the environment. It is purely a financial debate.”…
    https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2017-11-17/norway-idea-to-exit-oil-stocks-is-shot-heard-around-the-world

    As Norway sells out of oil, suddenly fossil fuels are starting to look risky
    The Guardian-19 hours ago

    World’s biggest investor ditches oil in €30bn sale
    Independent Ireland Nov 18, 2017

    Norway’s $1 trillion pension fund wants out of oil stocks
    CNNMoney· Nov 17, 2017

    more to come.

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    pat

    20 Nov: Bloomberg: Mikael Holter: Norway Oil Bosses Insist End Isn’t Nigh After $35 Billion Shock
    Can Norway dump $35 billion in oil and gas investments, and simultaneously convince that same industry to throw money into the country’s own fossil-fuel future?…

    While the fund said its proposal is about spreading risk and doesn’t imply a negative outlook on the oil industry, the plan reverberated as a nod from western Europe’s biggest oil producer to the uncertain future facing oil.
    Such doubts are the last thing the country’s offshore industry needs. It’s just suffered through a three-year slump, and is struggling with public opinion as it faces an historic lawsuit to stop its expansion in the Arctic. After more than 40 years of pumping oil, Norway is also in need of new investments to replenish reserves ???just as many of the big global oil companies are looking for the exit…

    “This is just one of several negative news stories that are piling up — that’s probably what made me shake my head at the beginning,” Frode Alfheim, the head of Industry Energy, Norway’s biggest oil union, said in a phone interview on Friday. “But I both hope and believe that this isn’t something that will impair international investors’ desire to invest on the Norwegian shelf.”…

    The proposal needs approval from Norway’s government and possibly even Parliament. Crucially, it has no bearing on the terms offered to oil companies operating offshore Norway, said both Industry Energy and the Norwegian Oil and Gas Association, a lobby group for companies such as Royal Dutch Shell Plc, Total SA and Exxon Mobil Corp…

    The country’s powerful oil lobby chose to look on the bright side, confident the government won’t take any direct steps that would harm an industry that still provides about 15 percent of economic output.
    The measures “seem a lot more reasonable than suggestions from the environmental movement that Norway should reduce this risk by reducing oil activity in Norway,” Karl Eirik Schjott-Pedersen, the head of the lobby, said in an email. “That would lead to the loss of thousands of jobs and huge tax income for Norway.”…

    Norwegian Labor Party leader, Jonas Gahr Store, welcomed the current debate, saying in an interview on Friday that it’s not climate related but has to do with “financial risk.” …

    Government policy on its 67 percent ownership in Statoil ASA, the dominant oil and gas producer in Norway, also remains firm, the Petroleum and Energy Ministry said in an email. Statoil itself declined to comment.

    Alfheim still urged politicians to be careful in reviewing the central bank’s proposal.
    “We mustn’t get a result that creates doubts about the future of the Norwegian shelf,” he said. “Framework conditions will remain stable, the state will keep investing both in exploration and development: these are the most important signals to give to international companies and investors.”
    https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2017-11-19/norway-oil-bosses-insist-end-isn-t-nigh-after-35-billion-shock

    18 Nov: TheStreet: Norway’s Move on Energy Stocks Gets an Overreaction
    By Jim Collins
    The media were aflutter Thursday with stories of Norway’s sovereign wealth fund, officially the Government Pension Fund Global (GPFG), dumping its oil and gas stocks…
    The reality, as usual, is a little more nuanced…

    This “major move” by Norway’s GPFG would affect less than 1% of the value of the world’s energy equities. The articles Thursday quoted dollar values of declines in Exxon Mobil (XOM) , Chevron (CVX) , BP, Royal Dutch Shell (RDS.A) . and Total (TOT) without noting that oil prices declined Thursday. Oil prices had a nice bid Friday on the back of benign data from GE Baker Hughes’ weekly rig count, and four of the big five oil stocks rose Friday…

    So, Norway’s wealth fund, built entirely from the proceeds of sales of Norway’s carbon-based fuels, is indeed exposed. That exposure is also not declining, as Norges Bank values the present value of the Norwegian Treasury’s future revenues from oil and gas at a cool $500 billion…

    At the end of the day, though, Norges Bank’s own figures show oil stocks outperformed their benchmark for the period 1970-2017 (see chart below) by more than a full percentage point (1.2 percentage points for the majors, 1.1 percentage points for the broader energy sector.) So, oil stocks have been a good investment over the long term. I believe they will continue to be going forward, and if the management of the GPFG does choose to reduce its holdings in the oil sector, I believe there will be plenty of investors interested in value (especially if one measures value by yield) to snap up those shares.
    https://realmoney.thestreet.com/articles/11/18/2017/norways-move-energy-stocks-gets-overreaction

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    Geoffrey Williams

    This is just another pathetic little European warmist agreement, no significant meaning nor substance.
    Just another ‘show pony’ stunt meant to bolster up their waning & unachievable carbon goals.
    Regards GeoffW

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    Like giving up black jellybeans for Lent. Who’s fooled?

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    PeterS

    Things are heating up and it ain’t the climate. I wonder who is going to resign first, Turnbull or Mugabe?

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      toorightmate

      Mugabe is a bag of sh*t, but don’t insult him any further by comparing him with Turnbull.

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        ROM

        This time around I will defend Turnbull when comparing the merchant banker Turnbull to what evolved over a number of years, a truly evil power grasping Leninist killer, Mugabe.

        Mugabe was the instigator of the mass killing, estimated as above 20,000 killed of the Ndebele people by the notorious North Korean trained “Fifth Brigade” which was aimed at eliminating all opposition to his rule and the creation of a one party state.

        From the Guardian;

        From January 1983, a campaign of terror was waged against the Ndebele people in Matabeleland in western Zimbabwe.
        The so-called Gukurahundi massacres remain the darkest period in the country’s post-independence history, when more than 20,000 civilians were killed by Robert Mugabe’s feared Fifth Brigade.

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          Peter C

          The Question was; Who will resign first? Not who is the worst.

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            PeterS

            Thanks Peter C, that’s exactly my point. Of course Mugabe is much worse – I thought that would be a given and didn’t really needing pointing out.

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          OriginalSteve

          If 20,000 people in Australia die from politically created fuel poverty, I fail to see any differenc between a Marxist Rhodesian and a Marxist Australian…..

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      James Murphy

      I’m not sure that either will resign in the sense of going voluntarily, though one would think that Mugabe should be quite motivated to do so, if he thinks he is still a mortal human being.

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    RickWilll

    Victorian and SA electricity price nudged $300/MWh today. There appeared to be a delay in bringing on generation. Import to Victoria hit 1200MW at 10am.

    The medium term outlook for Victoria and SA shows significant reserve shortfalls. The load and generation has become highly sensitive to weather conditions. I imagine operating the NEM is now similar to sailing a boat with constant eye on the weather. Too much wind increases risk of instability. Too little wind and the boat stops.

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    Yonniestone

    OT but good news for a change Charles Manson dead at 83.

    At least some evil has departed our world.

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    pat

    turned on the final days of India/Sri Lanka cricket and checked Bolt Report on Sky between overs to hear someone say latest polls show Labor will win on Saturday despite a bad start to their campaign, because of the dreadful mess that is the Federal Govt’s energy policy!!!

    talk about Orwellian. energy was supposed to be the winning strategy for the Coalition.

    who can blame the public, tho, if they believe ABC & most of the MSM, today’s “scientific” reports, etc., suggesting more renewables equals lower electricity bills.

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    Another Ian

    Sort of o/t

    “Journalism is about covering important stories. With a pillow, until they stop moving.— David Burge (@iowahawkblog) May 9, 2013″

    From a comment at

    https://theconservativetreehouse.com/2017/11/20/november-20th-2017-presidential-politics-trump-administration-day-305/

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    Carbon500

    Readers might be interested to know that here in the UK an annual analysis of our energy situation is published by the government.
    Just ‘google’ DUKES.
    Here’s a link showing a pie chart showing the percentages of different energy sources in 2016 – broadly in agreement with Jo’s article.

    https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/633029/DUKES_2017_Press_Notice.pdf

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    robert rosicka

    Here’s one for Tony , who said you can’t power an aluminium smelter with solar power ?

    http://www.abc.net.au/news/2017-11-20/solar-energy-used-to-create-virtual-power-plants/9171666

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      PeterS

      That’s cool. Trouble is I don’t have a spare $20,000. Let me guess. When Shorten wins, is he going to roll this solution out to all households, similar to what ALP planned with the initial FTTH NBN roll-out?

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        Chad

        Yes, its interesting how home solar advocates always seem to forget about the initial investment and just focus on how much less their power bills are.
        Also note that the same people always predict that utility prices are bound to increase in the future, but when discussing RE generation for grid use they claim it wiill give us lower power prices in the future ?

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          ROM

          Much, much worse than that, Chad @ # 44.1.1

          All those grid hoppers who are installing solar panels and who then claim they are close to becoming independent of the grid haven’t even looked out of the window and wondered what keeps that street light burning, the supermarket refrigerators operating, the fuel pumps kicking into gear when you press the fuel hose trigger for your vehicle, the hospital lights and electronic life saving systems working, the water always there and running when you turn on the taps due to electrically powered pumps far,far away, the sewerage that disappears down the bowl when you flush and somewhere huge electrical sludge pumps move it along the huge pipes across the towns and cities to where the aerators in the sewerage farms operated by electrical power, break it all up and create safe water to be used on pastures and etc, the fertilizers and chemicals created in the electrically powered factories that are used in the production of enormous tonnages of fruit and vegatables that miraculously appear fresh in your super market shelves every day.

          And we can go on and on about where all that power that the solar panel owner now claims he / she no longer needs from the grid is being used and how very, very short sighted and ignorant are such claims and how utterly dependent all those solar panel grid hoppers who claim to be nearly independent of the Grid in harsh reality really are so completely and utterly dependent on the Grid in its totality .

          And as the domesic use of electricity, about a quarter to a third maximum of all electrical power use, reduces due to the installation of more and more solar panels the price of power goes up not only for those who can’t afford solar panels or are renters but also for hospitals and supermarkets who recover their increased power costs by charging more for their products that they sell, rates in local government go up to pay for that street lighting and all the services local governments supply, fuel costs at the service stations rise incremnmentally to cover the extra costs of power and etc and etc.

          It is a mirage to imagine that when you move from the grid to a near self contained solar / battery domestic use, thats it.

          You and everybody else then pays that tiny bit extra for everything you use to compensate for the reduced income that the electrical generators and distrubutors then receive due to you and thousands more like you who have decided that they don’t need that grid power at all in their lives again.

          And if the Grid goes down and a few decent blackouts occur and all those public and business organisations shut down including banks and ATM’s then you will discover just how utterly reliant you and all those others who claim to be independent of the Grid really are not at all that independent of the grid after all.
          .

          And to cap it off, times and attitudes are a’changing.

          In some countries the cost of access to the grid is now being increased considerably for anybody who has installed solar panels and is selling power back to the grid or is just using the grid as top up power.

          And there is every indication that as the realisation dawns in the political circles recognising the huge disparity and advantages in cost cutting those wealthy enough to install their own solar panels are gaining at the expense of the lower income strata in society, then expect punitive rates and costs for grid access to be imposed on the solar panel owners some time in the not very distant future as another taxable item to increase the take for the government coffers and to defray the immmense subsidies that are being handed out to solar and wind turbine farm owners.

          The backlash is already under way although still very muted, against solar and wind and the whole renewable debacle right across every nation that has gone hell for leather down this renewable energy path without ever even considering let alone researching the impact of such major changes to the energy and social profile of a nation in the the longer term.

          But most of all there has been a complete absence of any research or study on the drastic social cost and social engineering required to even make the renewable energy a success both economically , technologically and socially.

          And so we see the unwanted , unneeded and increasingly societally debilitating inmpact of massively expensive renewable energy and the social cost from a loss of confidence in the government’s ability to keep supplying reliable power at a reasonable cost, particularly amongst the lower earning and less political trusting strata in society and the increasingly visible and commented on impact on the economics of industry and personal spending as renewable energy is imposed without thought or or consideration by the inner city green orientated Elites in politics, business and bureaucracy on the public at large.

          Ther has NEVER been an expressed desire by the public at large at any time to have such an unreliable, unpredictable , shockingly and horrendously expensive, unproven in the decades long term, energy system imposed on them by the ELITES, all without ANY consultation or approval or agreement from the public at large to have Renewable energy in place of the exceedingly long proven highly reliable and cheap coal fired power generated electricity as their main national and society dependent energy system.

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        Lionell Griffith

        My last full monthly electricity bill (winter time) when I lived in the high desert of Southern California was over $500. During the summer, my bill dropped to a little over a $100 a month. The sun shines over 300 days a year and the wind blows nearly every day from 10 am to sunset.

        Since, I had over 2 acres of land with clear east, south, and west exposure, I could have installed a massive solar array and a large battery pack. Perhaps even a windmill generator. Assuming I had installed a $20,000 generating system that could provide for all my electricity needs, my payback time would have been well in excess of 50 years. It is very expensive free energy if you ask me.

        I moved early this year to near Chicago where there is not much sun nor as constant high wind. My current electricity bill is roughly $35 a month. This is almost free by comparison to California. I did have to give up good weather, wide open spaces, high taxes, and political insanity to get it.

        Considering that I have a zero chance of living another 50 years and even though I totally despise actual winter weather, I think it was a good choice.

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      robert rosicka

      The guy from Bloomberg energy just qualified that smelter statement by saying “on a really hot day the solar could power an aluminium smelter” .
      Obviously neither he nor Finkel are aware of the efficiency problem when a solar panel heats up .

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        Dennis

        I cannot cope with the incompetence being displayed.

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        David Maddison

        Also, they obviously have no clue just how much power an aluminium smelter uses or the fact it has to be reliable and available on demand, including at night.

        They also don’t understand that the economics of aluminium smelting is such that you need the cheapest possible power and that means fossil fuel, nuclear or proper hydro.

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      Sceptical Sam

      Watch the vid. See the name. Steven Fenech.

      Steven Fenech is a journo for sale.

      “Fenech runs the website TechGuide.com.au which launched over six years ago. He left News Limited and The Daily Telegraph at the end of 2010. ‘Web traffic continues to grow month-on-month and we have had great support from some terrific advertisers. It has allowed me to operate independently and do what I did at the Telegraph, but for myself.’”

      Here’s a bit more on him from the “Mediaweek” article:

      https://www.mediaweek.com.au/two-blokes-talking-tech-celebration/

      So, is he in the pay of “Big Battery”? “Big Green”?

      You be the judge.

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    Chad

    Can someone explain what happens to the surplus rooftop solar output that gets fed back into the grid from domestic installations ?
    How does 240v backfeed, get back past the local HV step down tranformer units in to general grid running at 10kV or more ?

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      toorightmate

      Chad,
      It is a tad more complex than just poles and wires, but the wise politicians in state and federal parliaments don’t know this and do not want to know this.

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        Chad

        OK ..i dont need the full technical details, but am i correct in thinking that any power fed back from a domestic system, will never go any further than the local area sub station ?
        IE all it will do is power the neighbours fridge/tv or air con unit ?
        What happens when a large majority of local properties have solar systems all feeding surplus power back to an already lightly loaded local grid distribution mains circuit ?
        Thanks in advance for feedback.

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    pat

    don’t know how I missed this update on a story I’ve posted about some time ago (not a lot of MSM coverage):

    11 Nov: UK Telegraph: Old Etonian son of a judge jailed for five years for role in £100m celebrity tax scam
    By Nicola Harley
    Jonathan Anwyl, 44, was part of the scheme, believed to be the biggest direct tax fraud in British history, which convinced the rich and famous they could cut their tax bill by investing in “ethical” environmental projects.

    Led by environmental scientist and Cambridge graduate Michael Richards, 55, the scam signed up 730 celebrities, including comedians, sports stars and relatives of politicians, who were conned into believing they were investing in cutting-edge research and development reforestation projects in Brazil and China…
    In reality the organisers were siphoning off huge sums for their own “secret money box accounts” in Holland and Switzerland.

    Investors were told that they would be eligible for tax relief and were encouraged to make claims to Revenue & Customs for a total of £107.92 million. HMRC are now recouping the tax from the individuals involved.
    Richards, who has two masters degrees from Cambridge University, made £7.4m from the scam which he spent on a £32,000 engagement ring, £1.7m property, a £250,000 bathroom extension and gave a £20,000 donation to Cambridge University to have a plaque in memory of his father erected at Gonville & Caius College.

    Other defendants spent their share on a £2.4m villa in Dubai and a £2m Sussex barn conversion.
    Anwyl and Richards ran the fraud using a company called Carbon Positive Trading (CPT), where Anwyl was a director, and another called Carbon Capital.
    Panamanian law firm Mossack Fonseca was paid to set up the two firms, which were registered in the British Virgin Isles.
    Anwyl, from Ringmer, East Sussex, the son of a retired Crown Court judge, used £788,000 from the schemes to pay off a mortgage on a property in Sydney, Australia, which he owned with his French wife, Anne.
    His total profit from the scam was £1.6m…

    The cash amounts were first transferred to (Carbon Positive Trading) CPT, which had been commissioned to undertake the scientific research on deforested land in Brazil and China, and on to offshore lenders Environmental Guarantee Corporation (EGC)…

    Of the £65m obtained from the investors only a quarter was actually spent by CPT in Brazil, China and elsewhere – roughly six per cent of the £270m promised.
    Investors’ funds were placed in CPT’s account in the Netherlands and, once available after the circular movements, siphoned into another secret Swiss account in the name of CPL.
    From there it was dispersed by the defendants.

    It has has taken 10 years to bring group to justice, including a 10 month trial costing the tax payer tens of millions of pounds.
    Former president of the Rotary Club of London, Rodney Whiston-Dew, 67, a solicitor, set up the off shore structures to disguise the true nature of the fraud.
    Former music industry executive and business consultant Eudoros Demetriou, 77, used his contacts to add credibility to the scheme.
    Businessman Robert Gold, 49, was involved as a negotiator and was second in command and made £5.3m from the scam. His father Malcom, 73, was also involved.

    Mr Justice Edis, sitting at Southwark Crown Court: “The four defendants who gave evidence all professed their great, deep passion for the environment and their determination to protect it by reforestation projects which would absorb carbon and so address climate change,” he said.
    “Whether that was ever true for any of them was unclear.
    “But by the time of this fraud I am quite certain that Richards, Gold and Whiston-Dew were simply motivated by a desire to become extremely rich and evade tax on their proceeds of crime.
    “The sums involved mean that these defendants were playing for high stakes, and they have lost.”

    Richards and Robert Gold were jailed for 11 years, Whiston-Dew for 10 years, Demetriou was handed six years and Anwyl was jailed for five and a half years. Malcom Gold was jailed for 20 months.
    Anwyl was a pupil at Dulwich College Preparatory School in London and Eton before going to Oxford.
    His mother Shirley Anwyl, QC, was a circuit judge for 13 years and resident judge at Woolwich Crown Court until her retirement in 2008.
    His late father Robin Hamilton Corson Anwyl is a descendant of the aristocratic Anwyl of Tywyn family, which dates back to the 12th century Welsh king, Owain Gwynedd.
    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/11/11/old-etonian-son-judge-jailed-five-years-role-100m-celebrity/

    earlier sentencing:

    10 Nov: MyNewsDesk HM Revenue & Customs: Six jailed for total of 45 years as HMRC smashes £100m fraud
    Another of the group, Malcolm Gold, 73, previously of Hertfordshire, pleaded guilty to a charge of cheating the public revenue in November 2016 and was sentenced to 20 months in prison in January 2017…

    Richards, the self-styled ringmaster and originator of the fraud, led the group to create and trade Carbon Emission Reduction Certificates which help countries hit environmental emissions targets set by the United Nations.
    http://www.mynewsdesk.com/uk/hm-revenue-customs-hmrc/pressreleases/six-jailed-for-total-of-45-years-as-hmrc-smashes-ps100m-fraud-2266689

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    pat

    comment in moderation re: 11 Nov: UK Telegraph: Old Etonian son of a judge jailed for five years for role in £100m celebrity tax scam

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    pat

    20 Nov: Yahoo7: Victorians ripped off by dodgy solar sales
    by Georgie Moore, AAP
    Vulnerable Victorians are being ripped off with “aggressive” and “misleading” tactics used to sell them overpriced solar panels, a new report shows.
    Dodgy door-knockers and telemarketers are engaging in confusing, high-pressure and deceptive tactics to coerce people into buying solar panels and other products like training courses and phone contracts, the Consumer Action Law Centre says.

    In one case, an elderly man was left “shaking and shivering” after the salesperson refused to leave without signing him up to a 12-panel solar system worth more than $8500, the centre said in a report released on Monday.
    The 72-year-old pensioner was refunded his payments after a community legal centre found the solar panel company contract didn’t comply with Australian Consumer Law.
    In another case, a cancer patient was pressured into buying discounted solar panels after a salesperson spent hours at his home.
    The company later agreed to refund the man $6000 after being accused at the Victorian Civil and Administrative Tribunal of misleading and deceptive conduct…
    https://au.news.yahoo.com/vic/a/37939543/victorians-ripped-off-by-dodgy-solar-sales/

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      PeterS

      I don’t get it. I thought the argument being peddled by the warmists is that solar panels are a good thing to save the planet from massive global warming by reducing our CO2 emissions as per government guidelines and incentives. So what’s the problem? How can the solar panels sellers be using “aggressive” and “misleading” tactics when all they are doing is complying with the goals and aspirations of government policies towards more renewables? If these systems that are being sold to the public are wrong then how come the government itself isn’t sued for peddling its renewable energy target nonsense forcing on us solar and wind powered systems on a much larger scale? I see a contradiction here. Either the solar panel dealers should be allowed to make the sale or the government should stop peddling its push to more and more renewables. They can’t have it both ways.

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    robert rosicka

    OT , a friend of mine in Melbourne wants to go solar and battery system to reduce his power bill / cost of living etc into the future so he made a few enquiries and got a quote of $15000 for solar and battery and was told he’d never pay an electricity bill again .
    Bull excrement I told him , get more quotes and get written guarantees .

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      Dennis

      And carry out a complete cost-benefit analysis.

      Often the financing cost and write off plan to point of cost of replacement is ignored.

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        robert rosicka

        He’s in the same position I was when I put solar up but in his case given age and health issues payback is of no concern the only concern for him is reducing the cost of living over the next ten or less years .

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      David Maddison

      Don’t forget the cost of battery replacement and regular cleaning of solar panels and their deterioration with age.

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    Another Ian

    Local ABC has just had a local government rep (Qld) extolling the virtues of solar thermal – without once mentioning the bird frying feature and a few other things

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    pat

    hypocrisy? Guardian doesn’t mention “sea level rise”?

    20 Nov: Guardian: Monaco builds into the Med to house new throng of super-rich
    The tax haven has a luxury housing crisis – it doesn’t have enough land for the 2,700 multimillionaires forecast to settle there over the next decade
    by Rupert Neate Wealth correspondent
    Construction has begun on a $2bn (£1.5bn) scheme to reclaim land from the sea around Monaco so that more luxury apartments can be built for the thousands of extra millionaires expected to move to the principality in the next 10 years…

    To attract the world’s wealthy, Prince Albert II, the reigning monarch, has approved the “offshore urban extension project”, which will add six hectares (15 acres) to Monaco’s 202 hectares. This will allow the creation of 120 luxury homes selling for more than $100,000 per sq metre – more expensive than One Hyde Park in London and 15 Central Park West in Manhattan…

    The new Portier Cove ***ecological neighbourhood, near Casino de Monte-Carlo, is regarded as vital for the continued growth of the principality…Previous plans for a larger reclamation scheme were dropped after the financial crisis and ***environmental concerns. But Bouygues, the construction company behind the project, has promised there will be no detrimental effect on the environment. Important species on the seabed have been moved to a new reserve and the company said 3D-printed artificial coral reefs on the 18 trapezoid reinforced concrete caissons used to create the boundary of the new land would provide an artificial reef for wildlife….
    https://www.theguardian.com/business/2017/nov/19/monaco-builds-into-the-med-to-house-new-throng-of-super-rich

    Oct 2014: USA Today: Prince Albert’s climate retreat to focus on rising seas
    by Ian James, The (Palm Springs, Calif.) Desert Sun
    Prince Albert II of Monaco on Friday will open a three-day retreat at Sunnylands that focuses on how the world can adapt as sea levels rise and oceans grow more acidic.
    Those expected to attend include President Anote Tong of the Pacific island nation of Kiribati, who predicts that most of his country’s people will need to move elsewhere as their low-lying atolls vanish underwater in the coming decades.
    The retreat, which begins with a dinner Friday night at the famed Rancho Mirage estate, also will bring together scientists, leaders of nonprofits, and others in considering options as the world’s oceans are increasingly altered by melting polar icecaps and rising levels of carbon dioxide in the atmosphere.
    “The focus is on solutions,” said Margaret Leinen, director of the Scripps Institution of Oceanography at UC San Diego, which is organizing the event along with the Prince Albert II of Monaco Foundation and the Annenberg Retreat at Sunnylands…
    Prince Albert established his foundation in 2006 to address the world’s environmental issues…

    Leonardo DiCaprio and Prince Albert of Monaco Join Forces to Save the Ocean
    Vogue.com-26 Sep. 2017
    Call them the green-dream team: Leonardo DiCaprio and Prince Albert, two of the world’s most famous (and elegant) environmentalists, are joining forces Thursday at the Monte-Carlo Gala for the Global Ocean…
    “As head of a state bordered by the sea, I have made ocean conservation a priority. It’s a key issue because it is a crucial concern for the future of mankind,” Prince Albert told Vogue exclusively…
    The situation may be grim—as extreme weather continues to dominate the news, the disastrous effects of climate change are as evident as ever—but tomorrow, it will be fought glamorously. The formal occasion takes place at the Salle Garnier, the “jewel of the Casino de Monte-Carlo” and the site of Prince Albert and Princess Charlene’s wedding dinner. Plus, it takes place in the middle of the Monaco Yacht Show, the dazzling mega-boat event that attracts the world’s rich and famous…

    Prince Albert Calls Donald Trump ‘Dangerous’ on Climate Change
    PEOPLE.com-27 Oct. 2016
    Prince Albert has long been an outspoken climate change activist…

    13 Dec 2016: EOS: Monaco Leader Urges Climate Action, Calls on Trump to Help
    HSH Prince Albert II cautioned that the world has to come to terms with the fact that we are facing severe challenges if we don’t move toward a low-carbon global economy.
    By Randy Showstack
    In a 16 November congratulatory letter to Donald Trump following the U.S. presidential election, the prince wrote, “I want to believe that you will show your determination in preserving our efforts to lead on environmental protection, in particular, the commitments to fight against climate change, with a special consideration for our oceans.”
    During the briefing, the prince expressed exasperation with climate science skeptics. “I really don’t understand why there are still so many people out there that want to deny the changes that are happening,” he said. “We have to come to terms with the fact that we are facing some severe challenges ahead if we don’t move toward a low-carbon economy.”…

    He urged putting climate change and other environmental issues higher on the political agenda and publicizing them on a broader scale to counter climate change denial. “Quite simply, it is just a question of starting to believe in science,” he said. “There is 97% of the [climate research] community that says that this is actually happening. You have to start believing those kinds of numbers and stop believing the 3%.”
    https://eos.org/articles/monaco-leader-urges-climate-action-calls-trump-help

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      Annie

      Left hand doesn’t know what right hand is doing? Hypocrisy?
      Is Prince Albert of Monaco trying for this year’s Prattie Award? ( nominations are due in this week…see Pointman’s blog).

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    pat

    20 Nov: NTK Network: Apple Takes Aim at Trump in Australian Interview
    A top Apple executive and former Obama official attacked the Trump administration in an interview with an Australian news outlet.
    Lisa Jackson, Apple’s vice president of environment, policy and social initiatives, blasted President Trump and his administration in a recent interview with news.com.au.
    Jackson told the overseas outlet that it was hard to watch Trump’s presidency after years of working for President Obama at the Environmental Protection Agency (EPA).

    Ms Jackson is clearly troubled by the political direction of her country.
    “I think our leadership — American leadership in the world — remains important and will be missed,” she said.

    According to the Australian outlet, Jackson also criticized the man Trump appointed to run the EPA, Scott Pruitt.
    Apple’s decision to allow a member of its executive leadership team to criticize the president with a foreign outlet is a continuation of a troubling pattern for the U.S. tech giant. CEO Tim Cook regularly spars with Trump in the news and has appeased authoritarian regimes like the one in China in order to broaden Apple’s markets.
    http://ntknetwork.com/apple-takes-aim-at-trump-in-australian-interview/

    20 Nov: news.com.au: Apple exec on making a completely green iPhone and tackling child labour concerns in supply chain
    APPLE has a master plan for its products, but some have labelled the ambitious goal as “strange” and even “nonsense”.
    by Nick Whigham
    (The reporter travelled to Melbourne as a guest of Apple)
    Despite the US pulling out of the Paris Climate Accord earlier this year, Apple is one of many US companies that remain committed to the goals of carbon reduction outlined in the global agreement.
    “We have had since 2012, the first data centre that relies purely on renewable energy,” Ms Jackson said. “If we can do it, you should expect the same from every company.”
    Apple releases Product Environment Reports detailing the impact the process of developing each product has on the environment and said its latest iPhone range had the lowest carbon footprint yet…

    For instance, Apple engineers worked to produce “low carbon aluminium” used in the iPhone 8 as a part of its continued quest to produce greener products…
    http://www.news.com.au/technology/gadgets/apple-exec-on-making-a-completely-green-iphone-and-tackling-child-labour-concerns-in-supply-chain/news-story/f6de8b8f40fdb2956df67868cf2e81ca

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    el gordo

    Germany on the skids because of global warming hysteria.

    ‘If no coalition forms, Germany may be forced to hold new elections. But one casualty of Germany’s ongoing political crisis could be the country’s costly plan to promote green energy and fight global warming.’

    The Daily Caller

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    pat

    original Reuters’ article, no Obama in headline or opening para, etc:

    20 Nov: Reuters: Nebraska clears path for Keystone XL pipeline, challenges remain
    by Kevin O’Hanlon, Ethan Lou
    Nebraska regulators approved a route for TransCanada Corp’s (TRP.TO) Keystone XL pipeline through the state on Monday, removing a big regulatory obstacle for the long-delayed project backed by President Donald Trump, but leaving its future shrouded in legal and market uncertainty…
    https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-pipeline-keystone/nebraska-clears-path-for-keystone-xl-pipeline-challenges-remain-idUSKBN1DK177

    how AFR carried the piece:

    21 Nov: AFR: Reuters: US finally approves Keystone XL pipeline, long opposed by Barack Obama
    by Kevin O’Hanlon and Ethan Lou
    Nebraska regulators approved a route for TransCanada’s Keystone XL pipeline through the state, lifting the last big regulatory obstacle for the long-delayed project that US President Donald Trump wants built and Barack Obama steadily opposed.
    The 3-2 vote by the Nebraska Public Service Commission on Monday (Tuesday ADST) helps clear the way for the pipeline linking Canada’s Alberta oil sands to refineries in the United States, but is likely to be tied up for years in court challenges by opponents who say the project is an environmental risk.

    “We are going to fight like hell to make sure this pipeline never gets built,” said Jane Kleeb, the head of anti-pipeline Bold Nebraska, a political advocacy group…

    The approval comes at a time of fraught trade ties between the US and Canada, the world’s two biggest trading partners, with Trump saying he wants to tear up the Nafta free trade accord…
    Former US President Barack Obama, a Democrat, was never a fan and his administration considered the project for years before finally rejecting it in 2015, saying “it would not make a meaningful contribution to our economy.” But Trump swiftly reversed that decision after coming into office this year, handing TransCanada a federal permit for the pipeline in March.

    Trump has said Keystone XL would create 28,000 jobs nationwide. But a 2014 State Department study predicted just 3900 construction jobs and 35 permanent jobs…
    http://www.afr.com/business/energy/oil/us-finally-approves-keystone-xl-pipeline-long-opposed-by-barack-obama-20171120-gzpe7t

    17 Nov: CBS7: Historic oil refinery breaks ground in Pecos County
    The first oil refinery in the state of Texas to open in 40 years broke ground in Pecos County Friday.
    The 126-acre refinery will be able to process 10,000 barrels of crude oil each day. MMEX Resources Corporation poured $50 million into the first phase of the project, which is expected to benefit the economy…
    “This railroad goes into the eastern Dallas, Fort Worth area and you can get to the Texas Gulf Coast refineries,” Hanks said.
    The first phase of the project should be up and running by the end of 2018. MMEX Resources Corp. plans to file permits for another unit, which will be a large scale refinery able to produce 100,000 barrels of crude oil

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    RAH

    Kabuki theatre at it’s best.

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    Another Ian

    Not coal. Vehicle sales


    Surprising only the few

    Whacko environmentalists, the media and Liberals.

    “Sixty-eight to sixty-nine per cent of the market this year is light trucks,” says Dennis DesRosiers, of DesRosiers Automotive Consultants. “In fact, for four of the past 12 months, it’s been over 70 per cent, and this will stay positive for another year, at least.” DesRosiers crunches numbers and breaks down stats; he cares little about what ad campaigns and headlines say we should be buying, and instead reports on what we actually are.

    So if the statistical reality is that hybrids and electrics are more like the last mosquito in the room at night instead of the elephant, why is that all we hear about? “I blame you guys,” laughs DesRosiers. “The media play it hard and the OEMs are taking a huge risk on technology that, look at the numbers, nobody wants.” Those internal combustion engines are doing more with less, doing it better, and doing it for longer. Electrics seem to be the answer to a question nobody asked, at least in the passenger and light truck vehicle segment.

    Rabid environmentalism is a cult. A very small, insignificant minority. Virtue signalling, on the other hand, is practised by a very large hypocritical mass. This second group, flailing away against coal, oil and gas in their coal, oil and gas fuelled lives push stupid politicians into stupid, unsustainable, and expensive positions. ”

    http://www.smalldeadanimals.com/2017/11/surprising-only.html

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      Dennis

      I posted recently that the large public company in India, Mahindra & Mahindra, recently acquired the business of their only EV competitor and answering questions from the media Mr Mahindra commented that company can see value in electric propulsion for urban areas where pollution is a problem but cannot detect a demand generally.

      His company is not planning an EV only based future.

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      Dennis

      Mnini | November 20, 2017 10:16 PM | Reply
      Those cute electric cars win’t be much use out here on the prairies. How can I haul a load of duck decoys, ground blinds, dogs, shotguns and shells down a muddy road in one of these converted golf carts?

      And I can imagine turning the heater on while commuting to work when it’s -30 degrees. I can just see the car come to a halt while the heater and defroster take all the juice in a futile attempt to keep the windshield clear.

      And just as Kate’s sub-header above states, wait until the self driving car hits black ice, slush, or a mud hole on a gravel road after a hard rain. These things might be fine for the Yuber crowd in Tirrana, but will just be empty hulks on the side of the road in a matter or a few days. Two cups of gas and a match will serve as the last rites!

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    pat

    a Tassie heatwave???

    21 Nov: ABC: Heatwave health alert issued for southern Tasmania as 130yo record set to fall
    By Damian McIntyre
    The director of Public Health said the unseasonably hot conditions could lead to health issues for both the very young, and the very old.
    The weather bureau’s Tim Bolden said it was shaping up to be the first time Hobart has recorded six consecutive days on or above 25 degrees Celsius in November in nearly 130 years.
    “[We'll break the record] if we make it to the six days that we’re currently forecasting over 25 degrees — since last Saturday up until Thursday — and it’s certainly looking very likely,” Mr Bolden said.
    “[We are] currently forecasting 28 for Tuesday, 29 for Wednesday and 29 for Thursday, having reached 30 last Saturday, 27 on Sunday and 27 on Monday.
    “If we make it to that stretch of six days above 25 degrees, that would be a record heat spell for November, and equal to the maximum heat spell for the Hobart area that we’ve ever seen.
    “So it’s looking like a very significant event.”

    The heatwave is being caused by a high pressure system over the Tasman Sea…
    Director of Public Health Dr Mark Veitch said people should check on older family members and friends for symptoms of heatstroke, with temperatures expected to exceed 30 degrees in some locations.
    “High temperatures can knock people about, can certainly make people who are older or very young or who have medical conditions more likely to become ill, so it is important to take a few precautions,” Dr Veitch said.
    “If people are exposed to too much heat they can have a range of illnesses ranging from cramps all the way through to heatstroke.”…
    http://www.abc.net.au/news/2017-11-21/weather-health-warning-for-southern-tasmania/9174300

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    pat

    21 Nov: AFR: Ben Potter: NEG looks like CET long term – ESB’s Kerry Schott
    The energy mix and greenhouse gas emissions under the National Energy Guarantee could end up close to those modelled by the Finkel review of energy after all, Energy Security Board chair Kerry Schott said.
    The robust growth of wind, solar and battery energy and the cuts in greenhouse gas emissions under Finkel were too rich for Turnbull government conservatives to swallow, but Ms Schott said the falling cost of clean energy would drive investment to a similar place in the long term under the National Energy Guarantee.
    “If you sort of extend on the reduction path that you’re on and you go past 2030, you don’t end up in the space that is that much different from Finkel by 2050,” Ms Schott said
    “But it’s all being driven not so much by the climate target but by the comparable cost of the generation.”…

    Her remarks to the National Energy Efficiency Conference 2017 on Monday could stoke conservatives’ anger because the National Energy Guarantee – or NEG – was conceived as an alternative to Dr Finkel’s Clean Energy target and “orderly transition” policies that would be more palatable to conservatives…
    Ms Schott told the conference that detailed modelling of the NEG – which will be given to states ahead of Friday’s energy ministers’ meeting – was now using cost assumptions that were lower than the ones the ESB started out with because the industry had expressed disquiet.
    As a result the modelling – by Frontier Economics – had chosen to assume costs closer to those used by Bloomberg New Energy Finance (BNEF), she said…

    Energy minister Josh Frydenberg instructed the ESB not to model emissions reductions after 2030 but Ms Schott said the states “will insist on going much further, and running some more renewable energy targets that are more challenging” and that the ESB would undoubtedly model post-2030 outcomes if it gets the go-ahead from the energy ministers on Friday.

    The ESB initially assumed “levelised (all up) costs of utility scale solar energy at $90-100 per MWhw today, $72 by 2030 and $60 by 2040, and wind energy at $78-90/MWh now, $66-85/MWh in 2030 and $65-$80/MWh in 2040. Cost of energy from solar thermal with 12 hours storage – newer technology – is assumed to be $120-125/MWh now, $85/MWh by 2030 and $60/MWh by 2040.

    By contrast BNEF puts the cost of energy from wind farms at $US55($71)/MWh now, $US40/MWh in 2030 and $US33/MWh in 2040, and the cost of energy from solar panels at $US70MWh now, $US35/MWh in 2030 and $US26/MWh in 2040.
    http://www.afr.com/news/neg-looks-like-cet-long-term–esbs-kerry-schott-20171120-gzpbf7

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      RickWilll

      Anyone giving generation comparisons in terms of levelised cost for intermittent generation is incredibly naive. The only valid comparison is the fuel saving less the added maintenance cost for load variation at the reliable generators needed to constantly back up the intermittents.

      It is absurd to compare levelised cost of intermittents with reliable generation on a 1:1 basis. Maybe when the load shedding starts these nits may apply an ounce of thought to what they are comparing.

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    pat

    Australia still a “climate laggard”:

    20 Nov: ClimateChangeNews: Adam Morton: Former UN climate chief lobbies against $1bn loan to Australian coal train
    Christiana Figueres warns subsidising Adani’s controversial Carmichael mega-mine would damage Australia’s reputation abroad
    Former UN climate chief Christiana Figueres has made a rare intervention in Australian politics, urging the Turnbull government not to grant a controversial coal project a near A$1 billion loan.
    In a strongly worded letter to a government agency, Figueres warned approving the concessional loan to Indian billionaire Gautam Adani would seriously damage Australia’s international reputation and could affect progress on the Paris agreement…
    Figueres’ letter cites research published in Nature that found 93% of coal in the Pacific region had to stay in the ground to give the globe a 50:50 chance of keeping warming below 2C.
    “A decision by the NAIF and the Commonwealth government to financially support the Adani project would further damage Australia’s international reputation as a climate laggard committed to prolonging its high-polluting fossil-fuel-based economy into the 21st century,” she wrote…

    “Given my background and deep concern for planetary well-being, I cannot in all good conscience, remain silent on an issue that threatens to unpick the progress represented by the Paris Agreement,” she said…
    Australian Trade Minister Steve Ciobo dismissed Figueres’ argument on Monday, telling the Australian Broadcasting Corporation it was “curious” she would argue against burning Australia’s “more efficient” coal in Indian power plants rather than coal from elsewhere…
    http://www.climatechangenews.com/2017/11/20/christiana-figueres-lobbies-1bn-public-loan-australian-coal-train/

    while Merkel is still the “climate Chancellor”:

    20 Nov: Deutsche Welle: Patrick Grosse: Is Germany losing its role model status on climate?
    Until recently, Angela Merkel was known as the “climate chancellor” and Germany had a squeaky-green image. But now it looks like the country will miss the goals it pledged in Paris. Could a future government change that?
    These are difficult days in Berlin, as coalition talks among Chancellor Angela Merkel’s Christian Democrats (CDU), the allied Bavarian Christian Social Union (CSU), the economically liberal Free Democrats (FDP) and the Greens have failed. On Sunday, the FDP walked out of negotiations…

    One of the biggest sticking points is climate protection — and a a coal phase-out…
    CO2 emissions from power plants have barely decreased over the past few years. And industry emissions have even increased slightly…
    And, yet, Merkel is still tagged as the “climate chancellor” even as it becomes apparent that Germany won’t reach the goals it set in 2015 at the Paris climate conference.

    “Germany was and is a leader in international climate diplomacy,” Lutz Weischer, who works on global climate policy for the environmental nonprofit Germanwatch, told DW. “So, on the international stage, ‘climate chancellor’ isn’t unjustified.”…
    Role model abroad
    For many international organizations, Germany is still a role model when it comes to climate action…
    Many COP23 delegates appreciate the financial help that Germany has been providing. Most recently, Merkel promised 100 million euros to support poorer countries…

    Powering past coal
    Many of the countries in the new Powering Past Coal Alliance were not big coal users anyway; some rely heavily on nuclear energy. Divesting is easier for them than it is for Germany, which started its phase-out of nuclear energy after the Fukushima disaster in 2011, and where coal traditionally makes up almost half of the energy mix…

    On Friday, negotiators said there had been some progress on climate action. Greens politician Jürgen Trittin said parties had made headway on some climate issues, including the coal phaseout.
    Maybe the process was helped along by a paper released by the German Economic Ministry, stating that less coal power would be better for a more stable power grid.
    The internal paper also shows that Germany could do fine without some of its coal power plants. That’s why Greenpeace is calling for a total of 17 gigawatts of coal power to be taken offline over the next three years. That roughly equals all 14 coal power plants in Germany’s most populous state, North Rhine-Westphalia.
    FDP negotiators were apparently unwilling to go that far, as evidenced in the failure of the negotiations.
    And now, the question remains wide-open: Can Merkel win back her title of “climate chancellor”?
    http://www.dw.com/en/is-germany-losing-its-role-model-status-on-climate/a-41431186

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    el gordo

    I’m not eating my hat just yet, its a regional cooling signal caused by recalcitrant blocking highs.

    ‘The weather bureau’s Tim Bolden said it was shaping up to be the first time Hobart has recorded six consecutive days on or above 25 degrees Celsius in November in nearly 130 years.

    “[We'll break the record] if we make it to the six days that we’re currently forecasting over 25 degrees” since last Saturday up until Thursday “and it’s certainly looking very likely,” Mr Bolden said.

    Weatherzone

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    Robber

    Summer is coming.
    AEMO declares a Forecast LOR2 condition under clause 4.8.4(c) of the National Electricity Rules for the Vic region for the following period:
    From 1530 hrs to 1600 hrs on 24/11/2017.
    The contingency capacity reserve required is 594 MW.
    The minimum reserve available is 592 MW.
    LOR 2: When AEMO considers that the occurrence of a critical single credible contingency event is likely to require involuntary load shedding.

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    RickWilll

    Aemo have forecast lack of reserve for Friday in Victoria:

    59957
    21 NOV 2017 14:19
    RESERVE NOTICE STPASA – Forecast Lack Of Reserve Level 2 (LOR2) in the Victoria Region on 24/11/2017

    AEMO ELECTRICITY MARKET NOTICE

    AEMO declares a Forecast LOR2 condition under clause 4.8.4(c) of the National Electricity Rules for the Vic region for the following period:

    From 1530 hrs to 1600 hrs on 24/11/2017.
    The contingency capacity reserve required is 594 MW.
    The minimum reserve available is 592 MW.

    AEMO is seeking a market response.

    AEMO will determine the latest time at which they would need to intervene through an AEMO intervention event.

    Daniel Ghantous
    AEMO Operations

    I expect it will be resolved before Friday. An LOR2 means that load shedding could occur if there is insufficient capacity to meet the required running reserve.

    I am not certain but I figure wind is not taken into consideration for the contingency because it is unreliable. It would be an interesting conundrum to see forced load shedding while wind is providing ample generation!

    Right now Victoria is importing 1400MW to meet demand. There is only 150MW going to SA. Both Vic and SA prices are forecast to exceed $300/MWh during the evening peak. Queensland with its atmospheric CO2 enriching generation is sitting at $64/MWh and forecast to hit $100/MWh in the evening peak despite shipping more than 1000MW into the NSW network.

    Now is the time to install your own solar/battery to avoid the coming pain. If Labor get another term in Queensland the power price there will be nudging $300/MWh this time next year.

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    [...] Carbon Capture and Storage), although without a clear target date. Sceptics rightly point out that these countries weren’t burning much coal anyway and will continue to burn other fossil [...]

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