JoNova

A science presenter, writer, speaker & former TV host; author of The Skeptic's Handbook (over 200,000 copies distributed & available in 15 languages).


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60% of Australians are OK with dumping Paris if they can cut their Electricity Bill

Nearly half of Australians are already paying more than they want to for the Paris Agreement. Sixty percent of Australians wouldn’t mind us dumping it if it meant getting cheaper electricity. That fits with most other surveys for the last four years. It’s a stable slab of the population — despite the ABC and Fairfax running prime-time adverts for renewables constantly pushing the line that renewables are cheap, inevitable, and that only stupid “deniers” would want us out of Paris.

In Australia, no major party represents these voters. Instead, both sides of the establishment are competing on how to meet an agreement that, if the truth were known about the costs, at least 60% of Australians either oppose or couldn’t care less about.

When will the Liberals and Nationals figure this out?

Voters prefer cut in power prices to Paris climate accord

Simon BEnson, Michael McKenna

A Newspoll ­survey, conducted exclusively for The Australian, has revealed that 45 per cent of Australians would now ­support abandoning the non-binding target, which requires Australia to reduce emissions to 26-28 per cent on 2005 levels by 2030, if it meant lower household electricity prices.

This compares to 40 per cent who would oppose opting out of the agreement, with 15 per cent of people uncommitted. Significantly, more than a third of Labor voters backed ditching the Paris target when asked to consider whether the economic cost outweighed the likely benefit, while 54 per cent of Coalition voters backed withdrawing from the agreement if it did.

Paris agreement, Newspoll, Trump, Electricity Prices, 2017

Pulling out of Paris is not discussed as if it were a real option in Fairfax or the ABC. Despite that, so many Australians are in favour of pulling out.

Given the years of propaganda, lack of debate, and Nobel Prize fawning documentaries — this is as good as it’s ever going to get for the believers. When the ABC explains Paris, it doesn’t mention the cost. When it talked about Trump pulling out, it compared the US to Syria and Nicaragua. How backward are the nations that aren’t signed up! In terms of popularity, it’s all downside from here for the Paris Agreement as electricity bill shock hits and the screws turn. Even among the Labor Party supporters 37% would like to get rid of the Paris deal if it reduced their costs.

It is why One Nation appears on this list now and why Turnbull’s poll figures are bad and worse. All the Liberals have to do is convince the voters that renewables are expensive (which is not too hard, since it’s real). All the Libs have to do (or the Nats) is say the words: subsidies, storage, batteries, maintenance, long transmission lines, back up base load and stability).

No countries with lots of wind and solar power also have cheap electricity. Repeat, rinse, wash, collect the votes.
While most voters rank “the environment” at the bottom of their lists, when this becomes a costs-of-living debate, it rockets up the ranking.

VN:F [1.9.22_1171]
Rating: 9.7/10 (77 votes cast)
60% of Australians are OK with dumping Paris if they can cut their Electricity Bill, 9.7 out of 10 based on 77 ratings

Tiny Url for this post: http://tinyurl.com/yceycxw8

143 comments to 60% of Australians are OK with dumping Paris if they can cut their Electricity Bill

  • #

    It’s always the way a question is phrased that provides the answer that you want. Yes Minister provided a classic example.

    Pity no one dares ask a direct question such as ‘Would you support the removal of subsidies for renewables if it would significantly reduce electricity prices?’ Not ‘could’ but ‘would’ reduce electricity prices.

    312

    • #
      Sceptical Sam

      True. However, the real world already has given the answer years ago. It’s just that the Labor and Liberal stooges don’t want to hear it.

      In Canberra, some 10 or so years ago, domestic electricity consumers were given the option by the green left government of the Australian Capital Territory to purchase “green power” from the grid. Yep. Green electrons. Everybody knows that Canberra is chock-a-block full or virtuous left wingers and green lovers. So this gave them what they’d been clamouring for.

      The catch was that the “green electrons” were about three cents per kWh dearer than standard electrons.

      Guess what.

      Yep. Correct.

      The virtuous green lefties wouldn’t pay the premium. They’d rather be hypocrites than part with one of their own dollars.

      341

      • #

        Sceptical Sam — haha – I was in Canberra then. I remember that scheme. I paid for the green power. Young, gullible, but at least consistent.
        It would be good to get the statistics.

        I also paid for Greenfleet or something to offset the car emissions by planting trees. I have a feeling those plantations were razed sometime by fire.

        101

        • #
          Andy

          Hi Jo,
          a mate of mine had a farm out near York at the height of the tree planting madness … you know the carbon offset from air travel and the like. Happily pocketed $30G to have trees planted on an unused portion of his property and was just as happy to say the deal did not require him to water them. E a s y money. Gotta love the Greenies.
          Andy

          50

    • #
      David Maddison

      I think all public polling questions these days are constructed to give the desired answer.

      Like fake news there is fake polling, and by the same people.

      82

    • #
      lemiere jacques

      it is a foolish ambition to have a ever lower price of electricity..the good goal is global ..more wealth…
      the cheapest way to produce the most expensive priced electricity is the thing in economy.

      consumers want it ever cheaper, producers want it more ever more expensive (though ever more chepaer to produce because they ‘buy” it too)..

      as far i know , free market works well…if ever someone comes in and says let ‘s produce cheap electricity…it will be a mess.. as ever in this case money will be taken from some and given to others..politicians organizing it will enjoy of course..

      00

  • #
    Streetcred

    And whilst they are about it, withdraw from any UN Agenda 21 and subsequent machinations which have infiltrated pretty much every state and local Authority.

    380

    • #
      Manfred

      Streetcred I agree that it appears central to the future prosperity and freedom of the World in general, to the West and Africa in particular that the shadowy UN backrooms where the ideologues reside are exposed to the brightest day light.

      Responsible for orchestrating the Green Fund and subverting the role of the World Bank, the ideological robbers usurp democracy, steal liberty and crush prosperity. Unlike Obama, who promised change without specifying what, the UN has hidden everything in plain view. When they speak of a ‘transformational agenda’ they mean it. It may be the sort of euphemism Orwell warned us about, but its clear and stated. It strikes me that the awareness and excision of their penetrating tentacles down to street level cannot occur without an unexpected ‘development’, one that exposes the fraud and renders them irredeemably irrelevant … in perpetuity. Then the UN or its equivalent should be returned to the core business of peace and aid.

      The ideological blancmange of UN transformational agenda, the UNEP divestment credo (where Orwellian doublethink employs the word ‘ethical’), the UN ECOSOC (Economic and Social Council — where among other things, they claim to be ‘Promoting sustainable and healthy diets while providing climate solutions) and the thousands of NGO klingons at UN ‘Civil Society‘ (if you’re not a member, are you uncivilised?) together their IPCC acolytes, the policy-based risk mongers at the WHO and the scientivist WMO.

      The question remains, is there a big enough WC with a large enough flush to do the job?

      In Orwell’s own mind there was an inextricable connection between language and truth, a conviction that by using plain and unambiguous words one could forbid oneself the comfort of certain falsehoods and delusions. … His main enemy in discourse was euphemism, just as his main enemy in practice was the abuse of power, and (more important) the slavish willingness of people to submit to it.” Christopher Hitchens

      00

    • #
      My Poor Country

      Pauline Hanson and Cory Bernardi are the only politicians likely to grant your wish Streetcred.

      All the others are UN globalists including Abbott who had the opportunity to dump UN dictates and did nothing.

      51

    • #
      My Poor Country

      Pauline Hanson and Cory Bernardi are the only politicians likely to grant your wish Streetcred.

      All the others are UN globalists including Abbott who had the opportunity to dump UN dictates and did nothing.

      12

    • #
      My Poor Country

      Pauline Hanson and Cory Bernardi are the only politicians likely to grant your wish Streetcred.

      All the others are UN globalists including Abbott who had the opportunity to dump UN dictates and did nothing.

      21

  • #
    RickWill

    I am staggered by the cost of electricity in this story:
    https://www.fiveaa.com.au/shows/david-and-will/Penbo-Got-A-RUDE-SHOCK-When-He-Opened-His-Latest-Power-Bill

    “I was hoping $1,500,” Penbo said. “The bill: $2,942.40 — for three months.”

    Penbo reported that his bill had gone up by close to the yearly-expected increase in just one quarter — with a $340 saving for paying on time.

    $1000/month is a lot for electricity into a single household.

    190

    • #
      RickWill

      SACOSS is one of the state social services group that supports renewable energy; or at least supported it during the 2014 RET review:

      We agree with the statement at page 9 of the call for submissions that increasing electricity prices are disproportionately felt by low-income households. This is, of course, a core issue for the community services sector. We do not agree however, that an effective response is to abolish the Renewable Energy Target.

      https://www.sacoss.org.au/sites/default/files/public/documents/Submissions/Utilities%20Submissions/140506_SACOSS%20Review%20of%20the%20Renewable%20Energy%20Target.pdf

      I wonder if SACOSS are still missing the link between all that capital being spent on wind, solar, batteries, diesels and fast response GTs and rising electricity prices.

      In 2017 the tune is changing with less vocal support for wind and solar and more vocal about Shorten stress:
      http://www.abc.net.au/news/2017-10-16/sa-electricity-prices-blamed-for-more-food-handouts/9053426

      “These are what we call poverty premiums, a range of costs that apply to people just because they’re poor, because they can’t afford money-saving technologies, or they can’t afford to buy in bulk, stuff like that,” SACOSS policy officer Greg Ogle said.

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    • #
      rollo

      David Penberthy is an avid believer in the green dogma therefore I’m sure he is willing to pay anything to save the planet. At least Penberthy acknowledges that power prices are a big hit for people that don’t have his income.

      80

      • #
        Manfred

        According to the Australian Electricity and Gas Comparison the average electricity bill set to jump to AU$1524 in 2017. In New Zealand the average annual power bill is NZ$2200 (approx AU$1978), according to NZ MSM. Both bills include GST, 10% and 15% respectively. David Penberthy’s bill for three months of AU$2,942.40 is well outside what is quoted as the Australian national average, in fact approximately 8 times but not quite the 20 times of Al Gore compared with the average US family consumption. The Green elite must compete with each other?

        Given all of NZ domestic power consumption is hydro, that is, 60% of the total generating output with an additional 13% from geothermal and another 8% from ‘renewables’ – wind, what the irrational consider “free” eco-power, accounts for approximately 81% total power generation in NZ, the remaining proportion from coal and gas.

        Yet the cost of residential power in New Zealand is as brutal as it is incomprehensible, having risen (CPI) by 100% since 2003. In contrast, the cost of a basket of groceries has risen by 34%. So, the cost of power is a ‘big hit’ for anyone and everyone either side of the Tasman, irrespective of the mode of generation.

        There seems an implied Leftist assumption that somehow as the power bill is not a ‘big hit’ for rich people it is okay. That it obviously is for the poor, well that’s unavoidable, sad and tragic, but there you are … the subtext being that no price or pain is large enough to ‘save the planet’ promote the anti-prosperity UNEP eco-Marxist ideology. The UN / UNEP states as one of the euphemistic 2030 transformational goals, the change of consumption patterns. It’ll succeed more than it dreams in its wildest Marxist nightmares at the present rate.

        The ‘average’ Australian Weekly (gross) Earnings is quoted as $1164.60. After tax this drops to maybe $600 – 700. In other words, the ‘average’ Australian and Kiwi have nearly 3 weeks of work stolen from them to cover their annual power bill. For those on tighter financial constraints, it doesn’t bare thinking – 5 weeks of stolen work? I wonder where the threshold steal lies before decisions are taken that may lead to a loss of life?

        As for taxes on taxes, this is the loathsome norm in New Zealand and desperately required to maintain the ever burgeoning dependence industry, destined to blossom under our new government, the minority coalition of losers (Labour, Greens and NZ “First”) Australians tough luck, your Senate recently voted NO to eliminating the GST component on your power bills …

        This kind of ideologically promoted thievery is as unprecedented as it is unsustainable. SA is the canary in the coal mine. It reveals the likely future in both Australia and New Zealand … if the electorate permits this political farce to continue.

        100

        • #
          greggg

          Where are these “average” homes? In my regional area, the average 2 person house has a bill of around $670, so it should be less than $850 for a 2.6 person house. A lot of people around here have wood fireplaces but most don’t have gas as only bottled is available.

          10

    • #
      amortiser

      I think the police should be investigating for some sort of cash flow cottage industry on the premises.

      51

    • #
      Akatsukami

      Ridiculous. My electric bill averages USD 80/month (135 m2 house in central Illinois, two people, all appliances except water heater and clothes dryer electric). I’d have to have my electricity generated by dogs walking on treadmills to see such a price.

      00

  • #
    reformed warmist of logan

    Afternoon Jo,
    At the risk of sounding like a broken record, every politician in Australia in the post-war era keeps saying “The only poll that counts …”!
    Well you know how it ends.
    At the risk of stating the bleeding obvious, Qld. is going to the polls in three weeks and four days.
    As you have quite succinctly reminded us, at the moment both major parties are acting like “Tweedle-dumb & Tweedle-dumber” viz-a-vie energy policy.
    Hopefully the Defcon’s vote from last July will be even greater, and One Nation &/or Katter Party will hold the balance of power in four weeks time.
    Sooner or later the average person in the street has got to wake up to this “Climate Change Ponzi Scheme”!
    “Ever-increasing warm regards”,
    “Reformed Warmist of Logan”

    220

    • #
      William

      Hopefully not Katter’s Australia party, from their website:

      Newer generation technologies must be incorporated to dramatically reduce the climate impact of our
      electricity needs
      . For example, combined cycle gas turbines are much more efficient generators in the
      energy conversion sense, approaching 60%, effectively halving greenhouse gas emissions per kilowatt
      hour. However there needs to be a much greater emphasis on incorporating renewables and newer
      technologies into the generation mix to replace the ageing fleet of generators in an orderly fashion without
      exposing the economy to price or supply shocks.

      At least they are not averse to gas, but they seem to be against coal.

      160

      • #
        robert rosicka

        So now the Katter party have gone green ? Apart from Bernardi is there a political party that hasn’t turned green ?

        121

      • #
        Anto

        I was listening to the radio today, and they were speculating that the Greens might well win their first QLD State seat in South Brisbane, this election.

        It occurred to me (not for the first time): why do all of the Greens voters live in concrete jungles, rather than out in the “environment”? And why is it that those who actually live out in the “environment” never vote Green?

        It’s a strange, strange world.

        300

        • #
          Leonard Lane

          Anto, good comment.
          Those who live out in the environment see nature in action and also humans’ actions and how the two interact. So they understand how nature and people interact and what interactions work best for people and for the environment (they know that people are a part of the environment and always will be).
          Those liberals in the concrete jungle have little real knowledge of the environment and our place in it. Their knowledge comes from left leaning television, radio, internet, and print media. Those in the concrete jungles lack real knowledge of the environment as all they get is leftist propaganda.
          At least, that is how I see the dichotomy

          110

      • #
        Sceptical Sam

        At least they are not averse to gas, but they seem to be against coal.

        Never a mention of Nuclear by any of them, which demonstrates just how compliant they are with the small ignorant minority view.

        They’re all “Yes men”. Katter included. He’s talking through his hat.

        91

        • #
          GD

          “They’re all “Yes men”. Katter included. He’s talking through his hat.”
          It’s a good hat though!

          90

          • #
            Sceptical Sam

            The latest Akubra.

            The Plainsman.

            Top hat.

            20

            • #
              Hat Rack

              “Stoney Creek” for work, “Leisure Time” for play. Still get sun-spots and have had a cancer cut off face near ear. Don’t understand blokes who work outside wearing baseball caps.

              10

      • #
        Glen Michel

        Bob Katter is just a hat and an Everyman to everybody.Common touch in the outback and Gulf regions where hats are everything.Mines a straw one.

        20

      • #
        Manfred

        It’s touch and go William #4.1. The mono-synaptic Greens have one word in their vocabulary, “nyet.” This is the only possible answer to UN defined “climate change” predicated on ANY anthropogenic influence whether direct or indirect on atmospheric composition and land usage.

        You’re on very shaky ground just existing.

        10

      • #
        clivehoskin

        The Katter party get their money from the CFMEU.

        00

  • #
    William

    What is interesting is between 1/4 and 1/3 of Green voters are OK with it as are 1/2 of Labour voters.

    80

    • #
      RickWill

      I expect there are biases in the these polls. In fact voting polls versus outcome support that view.

      Our household never answers a phone call unless the person leaves a message to announce the reason for the call or it is an identified caller. We get a call or two most evenings of the week that just go to the keeper.

      These days there are many households without a household phone number with all residents having their own unlisted mobile number.

      Then there are the young people living with parents. My son and wife lived with us for a time and I note showers are shorter and heater temperature set lower now that they are in their own place and pay energy bills. Also appreciation of LED lighting and star rating on appliances that was not evident when energy was free to them.

      So I wonder how poles are conducted to remove bias.

      81

  • #
    Environment Skeptic

    I would vote to get out of the Paris accord if my honey bees could have long hot summers again…..so that the flowers can produce more nectar and thus more honey….but alas…*sigh*…the colder victorian climate has thwarted many honey producers that i know of and in New Zealand they had their worst honey season ever due to the cold….Bee keepers in Europe are doing it tough and in the USA also….

    My solution is start using styrene honey boxes to keep the bees warm so they can expend less energy and numbers keeping the brood warm and this has helped..but we need HOT summers for flowers to produce the maximum nectar flow. we cannot put flowers in insulated styrene boxes and it is not practical

    “Why I’m Not A Commercial Beekeeper Anymore..”

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nZYWucqTyWU

    I remain skeptical that cold environments being good for bees…

    181

  • #
    OriginalSteve

    Jo asks:

    “When will the Liberals and Nationals figure this out?”

    Answer – when it suits them.

    I also think they sense a change in the wind of public opinion about renewables, and using a boating analogy – they but would rather keep their heads down until the boom swings across…

    100

    • #
      Annie

      Perhaps they’ll wait so long they’ll forget to keep their heads down and balance the boat….thwack!

      140

    • #
      King Geo

      With Turnbull leader they will never figure it out – change leader, dump the Paris Agreement, and one suspects that the Coalition will win the 2019 Federal Election especially when it is pointed out to voters that they will have lower power bills & more job opportunities once the 50% RET is abandoned. Loyality to the “Idealistic feel good 50% RET” extends so far – reach the breaking point, ie the twin swords of “hip pocket pain” & “poorer job prospects” in a shrinking economy, and few will care about the 50% RET – lower & middle income Aussies that is.

      140

      • #
        Manfred

        Watch and listen to the faux elite over at The Con screech in melodramatic ire if this happens. Mind you, as the economy dries up so will the research spigot. Now that’ll be a popcorn moment.

        30

  • #
    pat

    BBC’s Roger Harrabin tweet Oct 26 – following the sun:

    We are Heading for the heat. Off to roasting San Diego for @Costingtheearth doc on climate and Trump. Nov 7

    Harrabin re-tweeted the following on Oct 28:

    28 Oct Tweet: Climate Progress: 37% of Norway’s new cars are electric. They expect it to be 100% in just 8 years…

    some ABC spin on Norway/EVs:

    6 Oct: ABC: Behyad Jafari: Australia needs electric vehicles more than any other nation
    (Behyad Jafari is chief executive of the Electric Vehicle Council)
    Australia could easily produce enough electricity to power millions of vehicles, providing greater demand for investment in renewable energy..
    29 per cent of new vehicles sold in Norway are now electric…
    Electric vehicles are, for example, an efficient way for Australia to reduce carbon emissions…

    Electric vehicles would also clear air and noise pollution in our major cities. Major points of community anger, like smoke stacks in residential areas, could vanish.
    Electric vehicles would also free Australian households from the tyranny of the bowser. With solar panels on your roof, most nights you could plug your car at home and fill up free. Music to the ears of those in our outer suburbs and regions, especially…

    One easy, revenue-neutral step would be to provide a short-term exemption for electric vehicles from fringe benefits tax…
    The foregone revenue could easily be made up by only slightly increasing the impost on conventional vehicles…
    In addition, governments might provide short-term exemptions to costs like stamp duty, registration and other taxes levied on the car market. Incentives could be provided for the mass installation of charging infrastructure…
    http://www.abc.net.au/news/2017-10-06/australia-needs-electric-vehicles-more-than-any-other-nation/9022252

    Norway reality, behind paywall:

    27 Oct: Financial Times: Norway oil fund posts sixth straight quarter of gains
    Norway’s $1trillion oil fund took advantage of benign market conditions over the summer to post its sixth consecutive quarter of positive returns…

    27 Oct: Quartz: Eshe Nelson: Norway’s $1-trillion sovereign wealth fund is on an 11-month winning streak
    PHOTO CAPTION: All about oil.
    Bonus fact: Since 1998, the fund has made a positive return in 160 out of 237 months. That’s almost 70% of the time…
    For now, the fund is benefiting from a surge in oil prices. The price of Brent crude oil, the international benchmark, has climbed 8% so far this year, boosting the profits of oil companies. In turn, oil and gas companies delivered the best return for the Norwegian fund in the third quarter, at 8.7%. Royal Dutch Shell was the single best-performing stock for the quarter, of which the fund owns more that $5 billion in shares…

    23 Oct: OilPrice: Norway Unfazed By Peak Oil Concerns
    By Irina Slav
    Not everyone is that concerned with peak oil demand, however. Recently, Norway’s Energy Minister said the biggest problem for Europe’s largest oil and gas producer is satisfying near-term demand, which is growing faster than Norwegian continental shelf operators are making discoveries.

    It might sound a bit weird that Europe’s greenest country is still so big on oil and gas, but in reality, there’s nothing weird: Oil and gas exports account for a substantial portion of Norway’s export revenues, with their value for 2016 standing at $43.84 billion (350 billion crowns), accounting for 47 percent of the country’s total export value…

    Norway’s biggest customer is the European Union. Together with Saudi Aramco, Norway’s state major Statoil accounted for a fifth of the EU oil market last year. Yet demand in the EU is supposed to be falling, with rigorous policies designed to encourage acceleration of the shift to renewable energy…

    Still, Eurostat notes, crude oil and its derivatives account for the biggest share of energy consumption in the 28-strong union.

    That’s good news for Norway, and there’s more good news from Wood Mackenzie. The energy consultancy has forecast that although in places like Europe, Japan, the United States, and even China, crude oil consumption will plateau by 2035, the demand for petrochemicals will jump considerably…

    So how is Norway responding to this demand outlook? Statoil has been on a hunt for new discoveries for a while now as oil prices rebounded from their tough last year, but it reports disappointing results at home — its Arctic drilling campaign this year produced no meaningful results, and the company said it will be back next summer to drill more.

    At the same time, there are large oil fields slated to start pumping crude in the next few years. Johan Sverdrup, which is estimated to hold between 1.9 billion and 3 billion barrels of oil equivalent, is scheduled to start production in 2019. Johan Castberg, with proven reserves of some 400-600 million barrels, should start production in 2022…
    https://oilprice.com/Energy/Crude-Oil/Norway-Unfazed-By-Peak-Demand-Concerns.html

    70

    • #
      Just Thinkin'

      “Electric vehicles would also free Australian households from the tyranny of the bowser. With solar panels on your roof, most nights you could plug your car at home and fill up free. Music to the ears of those in our outer suburbs and regions, especially…”

      Wow, solar panel that work at night.

      Can I have some, please..

      220

    • #
      Annie

      We are not Norway. They have plenty of hydro…

      40

    • #
      Manfred

      Norway’s e-car uptake is a TOTAL distortion of FREE-MARKET ECONOMICS. It makes a a COMPLETE FARCE of it, well, … ummm …. well, it kinda is an Statist version of the “free” market in action, enabled by huge well managed oil revenues (but don’t tell the UNEP divestment police!)

      Reality of subsidies drives Norway’s electric car dream

      “What we have proven in Norway is that if you give enough subsidies and impose enough restrictions on fossil fuel vehicles, people will buy electric,” says Andreas Halse, the environmental spokesman in Oslo for the opposition Labour party.

      Electric Cars in Norway

      Norwegians have been financially incentivised by their government to buy electric cars over the previous decade, at a cost to the state of tens of thousands of kroner per car.
      In addition to these benefits, commuters driving into Oslo from the surrounding areas save up to 10,000 kr in road tolls over the course of the year, and get free parking which is also worth thousands of kroner per year.
      Since 1990, the Norwegian government has introduced the following incentives:

      No purchase/import taxes (1990)
      Exemption from 25% VAT on purchase (2001)
      Low annual road tax (1996)
      No charges on toll roads or ferries (1997 and 2009)
      Free municipal parking (1999)
      Access to bus lanes (2005)
      50 % reduced company car tax (2000)
      Exemption from 25% VAT on leasing (2015)

      30

  • #
    pat

    posted 5 mins ago, not behind paywall. Greenpeace quote is hilarious:

    31 Oct: Financial Times: Emily Feng: China to take centre stage at Bonn climate talks amid vacuum left by Trump
    “To deal with differences in the negotiation process, China will propose its ‘bridge building plan’ at the upcoming summit,” said Xie Zhenhua, China’s climate policy representative, told reporters at a state press conference.

    Despite previous contributions from the US in combating climate change, “after the establishment of the new government, the announcement to withdraw from the Paris Agreement definitely impacted the international community’s confidence to deal with climate change,” said Mr Xie.
    “All other countries have approached the [Paris] process with great confidence and determination. We see this trend as irreversible.”…

    “Now the tone from the top has been set straight,” said Greenpeace senior advisor Li Shuo. “China is transforming its domestic energy system and embarking on an ambitious diplomatic mission to drive the global climate agenda.”

    China is expected to unveil a national carbon trading scheme next year modeled after the European Union’s carbon marketplace. However, Lin Gao, a climate policymaker at China’s top state planning body, admitted on Tuesday that there were still “problems” that needed to be fixed before the “very complex” scheme could be implemented nationwide…

    The climate talks in Bonn are set to overlap with President Trump’s visit to Beijing, which begins November 8.
    Asked whether President Trump and Xi would discuss climate change at Trump’s trip to China next week, Mr Xie told the Financial Times: “That is up to them to decide.”
    https://www.ft.com/content/f6015c21-2ed8-3154-a0b5-3f255c048d3e

    80

  • #
    pat

    the sheer arrogance…

    13 Oct: Potsdam Institute for Climate Impact Research: “We need you”: UN climate chief to Potsdam climate scientists
    Hundreds of millions of people will be affected by climate change impacts and their implications for health or migration already within the next few decades, sectors that so far often get overlooked in this context. This is one of the insights of the Impacts World Conference organised by the Potsdam Institute for Climate Impact Research (PIK) in Germany this week. About 500 scientists from 67 countries were gathering at the conference with the title “Counting the true costs of climate change” to push climate impact research to the next level by better integrating socio-economic factors…

    “We need you,” Patricia Espinosa, Executive Secretary of the United Nations Framework Convention on Climate Change (UNFCCC), addressed the scientists assembled at the conference. On the occasion of the 25th anniversary, she highlighted the outstanding role of the Potsdam Institute’s scientists and its founding director Hans Joachim Schellnhuber: “It is hard to describe just how important your contributions are to humankind,” she said. “Our struggle is not about ideology, it is about urgency and about wellbeing. We have a lot of work ahead.” Espinosa is one of the driving forces behind the UN climate summit to be held in Bonn in less than a month…

    “With its interdisciplinary research, PIK has an outstanding value for Brandenburg,” said the state’s Minister for Science, Research and Cultural Affairs, Martina Münch. She called PIK “an extraordinary institute”. Just like the UN climate chief she added: “We really need you and your research!” Thomas Rachel, Parliamentary State Secretary of the German Federal Ministry of Education and Research stressed that today, some political forces are trying to distort or deny science. “Those who ignore the science will fail in the long term – only those who face the facts will be successful. The scientific community has to be very clear about this,” he said. Addressing PIK he added: “For many years you have been setting standards – climate policies have to be based on solid science.” Together, the state of Brandenburg and the Federal Government of Germany are the main funders of PIK. “This money is well invested”, Rachel said.

    “The world would urgently need a PIK, if it didn’t already exist,” highlighted Matthias Kleiner, President of the Leibniz Association of which the Potsdam Institute for Climate Impact Research is a member. The institute “belongs to the best climate think tanks worldwide,” he pointed out. “Mankind would be much less prepared” to tackle climate change, he said, if the work of PIK would not be available. “Much has changed since 1992, when your institute was created”, Carlos Moedas explained, European Commissioner for Research, Science and Innovation. “Now climate change is a top priority in many parts of the world and I want to thank and congratulate Professor Schellnhuber for leading this institute and for achieving so much in the fight against climate change”, he said. “I rely on experts like you to guide me in the best ways to do this, to advise me where we should invest and what will create the most added value”.

    “Climate change is risk number one,” said Klaus von Klitzing, Nobel Laureate for Physics, praising the participants of the conference for their relentless work. He contributed to the appeal by 79 Nobel Laureates that helped making the historical Paris climate summit a success. He quoted the first man on the moon, astronaut Neil Armstrong, who said that seen from outer space, Earth looks fragile. “Maybe all politicians should be shot to the moon before taking office,” von Klitzing said jokingly. Poor countries are hit hardest by most of the impacts of climate change. “We’ve come a long way – but today it is acknowledged that climate change and development are closely linked,” said Leena Srivastava from The Energy and Resource Institute in India. “Energy is at the centre of the sustainability challenge.” The ambitious renewables target in India brought down prices of solar and wind power below prices of power from coal, she pointed out. Yet, even if greenhouse gas emissions are limited, huge adaptation efforts are needed to enable sustainable development.

    “It is really gratifying to see that the cream of the global research community exploring climate change impacts is coming together in Potsdam for the second time now, after our 2013 conference,” said PIK’s director Hans Joachim Schellnhuber. “The results of this meeting now will become a major influence on the forthcoming IPCC reports.” The co-chair of the working group on climate impacts of the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change (IPCC), Hans-Otto Pörtner, was scheduled to join the conference on Friday. “There have been many days in my life when I thought all is lost,” said Schellnhuber.

    ***“But after this anniversary celebration and the wonderful contributions of friends and allies I know that we’re going to save the world.”
    https://www.pik-potsdam.de/news/press-releases/201cwe-need-you201d-un-climate-chief-to-potsdam-climate-scientists

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      Allen Ford

      About 500 scientists from 67 countries were gathering at the conference

      I’d wager that they would be hard put to find 1, just 1, genuine scientist among this lot!

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    pat

    ramping up the CAGW rhetoric for Bonn:

    31 Oct: Reuters: Climate change harms health worldwide as millions swelter: study
    Environment Correspondent Alister Doyle
    OSLO (Reuters) – Climate change has caused severe harm to human health since the year 2000 by stoking more heat waves, the spread of some mosquito-borne diseases and under-nutrition as crops fail, scientists said on Tuesday.
    Scant action to slow global warming over the past 25 years has jeopardized “human life and livelihoods”, they wrote in a report published in The Lancet, a British medical journal.
    “The human symptoms of climate change are unequivocal and potentially irreversible,” said the report, entitled Lancet Countdown and drawn up by 24 groups, including universities, the World Bank and the World Health Organization (WHO).

    Many governments are now trying to cut their greenhouse gas emissions under the 2015 Paris climate agreement, though U.S. President Donald Trump has weakened the pact by saying the United States, the world’s second biggest greenhouse gas polluter after China, will pull out.

    ***“This (report) is a huge wake-up call,” Christiana Figueres, chair of the Lancet Countdown’s high-level advisory board and the United Nations’ climate chief at the Paris summit, told Reuters. “The impacts of climate change are here and now.” …

    Labor productivity among farm workers fell by 5.3 percent since the year 2000, mainly because sweltering conditions sapped the strength of workers in nations from India to Brazil…
    The number of undernourished people in 30 countries across Africa and Asia rose to 422 million in 2016 from 398 million in 1990, it said…

    But despite the overall gloom, Anthony Costello, a director at WHO and co-chair of the Lancet Countdown study, said there were “significant glimmers of hope” in the situation.
    The number of weather-related disasters such as hurricanes and floods rose 46 percent since 2000, but the number of deaths remained stable, suggesting that societies were improving protection measures against environmental catastrophes…
    The Lancet Countdown study did not estimate the total number of deaths from climate change. The WHO has previously estimated there could be 250,000 extra deaths a year between 2030 and 2050 because of climate change…

    Nick Watts, executive director of the Lancet Countdown, said there could be a few benefits from warmer temperatures, such as fewer deaths from winter cold in nations from Russia to Canada.
    “But those numbers are … almost negligible,” he said compared to the overall harm from global warming…
    The Lancet study also said that the air in 87 percent of all cities, home to billions of people, exceeded pollution guidelines set by the WHO…

    Johan Rockstrom, director of the Stockholm Resilience Centre and who was not involved in the Lancet study, said the report could bolster efforts to limit pollution in cities from Beijing to Mexico City.
    “Air pollution is in a way an old issue,” he said, referring to decades of efforts to limit smog. “But it’s potentially coming to the forefront again ***as the most rapid vehicle to get action on climate change.”
    https://www.reuters.com/article/us-climatechange-health/climate-change-harms-health-worldwide-as-millions-swelter-study-idUSKBN1CZ2TN

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      pat

      “overall gloom”?

      Avocado lovers set to clean up as fruit numbers smash record
      ABC online – 31 Oct 2017

      Russia on track to break 40-yr Soviet record on grain harvest
      RT-16 Oct. 2017

      Gujarat to harvest record groundnut crop, says SEA
      Economic Times India -16 Oct. 2017

      Report: Kansas forecast to harvest record soybean crop
      Topeka Capital Journal-12 Oct. 2017

      Colorado corn farmers’ 2017 grain crop expected to break state record
      High Plains Journal-20 Oct. 2017

      lots of graphs/details at link:

      27 Sept: Reuters: Special Report: Drowning in grain – How Big Ag sowed seeds of a profit-slashing glut
      (Reporting by Rod Nickel in Winnipeg, Manitoba; Additional reporting by Polina Devitt in Moscow; Michael Hirtzer in Chicago and Dominique Patton and Jo Mason in Beijing)
      The question, amid historically high supplies and low grain prices, is whether the world really needs more corn.
      A global grains glut is now in its fourth year, with supplies bloated by ***favorable weather, increasingly high-tech farm practices and tougher plant breeds.
      The bin-busting harvests of cheap corn, wheat and soybeans are undermining the business models of the world’s largest agriculture firms and the farmers who use their products and services. Some analysts say the firms have effectively innovated their way into a stubbornly oversupplied market.

      Exploding crop yields eat into profits…
      Never has the world produced so much more food than can be consumed in one season. World ending stocks of total grains – the leftover supplies before a new harvest – have climbed for four straight years and are poised to reach a record 638 million tonnes in 2016/17, according to USDA data…

      Abundant supplies have helped lower food prices across the world, but the benefit to consumers and impoverished nations is muted by several factors, including problems with corruption and distribution of food in developing regions, said Sylvain Charlebois, professor of food distribution and policy at Canada’s Dalhousie University.
      The bumper harvests may actually harm poor communities more than they benefit their residents in food savings because lower prices depress farm incomes in the same areas, said John Baffes, a senior economist at the World Bank…

      Even with dry conditions in North America, Europe and Australia, the U.S. Department of Agriculture forecasts that this year will bring the second-biggest global corn, wheat and soybean harvests ever…

      Success in the lab and the field, however, has contributed to oversupply and may continue to sustain it, said Oxgaard, the Bernstein analyst.
      “It’s somewhat the seed companies’ fault – they keep breeding better and better seeds every year,” he said…

      DARWIN, SEX AND CORN
      Charles Darwin helped plant the seeds of the grain glut. The biologist and evolution theorist showed in the late 1800s that cross-fertilization of plants – in which sex cells are fused between crop varieties of the same species – creates a more vigorous breed than those that are self-fertilized…
      Technology has also provided better defenses against pests…

      OVERSUPPLY OF EVERYTHING
      “I don’t know any single crop that isn’t in oversupply,” (farmer Paul Thomas) said…
      http://www.reuters.com/article/us-grains-supply-special-report/special-report-drowning-in-grain-how-big-ag-sowed-seeds-of-a-profit-slashing-glut-idUSKCN1C21AR

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  • #
    Greg Cavanagh

    Interesting that 17 Greens opposed the idea, and 12 didn’t choose an opinion. That right there is 29% of the Green enthusiasts not for it.

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    Stephen Richards

    I cannot believe that 40% of my aussie cousins are stupid but the figures don’t lie.

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    Dave

    It’s seems Billionaires are interested in saving the WORLD too

    FOR money!

    NOW Sanjeev Gupta
    But Elon Musk has already got BIG $ from South Australia?

    Another SNOUT IN THE TROUGH!

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      King Geo

      In the near future – one hopes – that the likes of Gupta & Musk will realize that there is no more money in “saving the world” so then “their snouts will be out of the trough and they will lose their voice and become disgruntled“.

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      • #

        grun·tled
        ˈɡrən(t)ld/
        adjectivehumorous
        adjective: gruntled

        pleased, satisfied, and contented.

        Origin 1930s: back-formation from disgruntled.

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          Greg Cavanagh

          disgruntle (v.)
          1680s, from dis-, here meaning “entirely, very,” + obsolete gruntle “to grumble” (Middle English gruntelen, early 15c.), frequentative of grunt (v.).

          grunt (v.)
          Old English grunnettan “to grunt,” frequentative of grunian “to grunt,” probably imitative (compare Danish grynte, Old High German grunnizon, German grunzen “to grunt,” French grogner, Latin grunnire “to grunt”).

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      Joe

      And lest we forget David de Rothchild and his Plastiki.
      It’s all the same whether it is Big Coal or Big Green that is seen to be winning, its all about the money, there is no distinction. Governments are just pawns in the game, proxies for the players, purchased marketing gimmicks, there for us to vent our anger on rather than aiming it at the Big Money players. I find it quite disheartening that so many people are counting on a Government, any Government, to save us.

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  • #

    Just ditch the accords?

    I’m for sending in Cossack hordes to stop wind towers, Big Battery and, above all, those diesel generators for hooking to the grid. The Cossacks might need help so I’d have some Huns and Tartars in reserve.

    After my hordes have swept through I’d leave behind teams of Vandali to tear down every last relic of Green Blob. But that’s just me.

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    • #
    • #

      I hab many Bulgars, Avars, Szeklers mit pitchfork; to backup your backup Huns und Tartars! :-)

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      • #

        Actually, for the total removal of wind towers, including concrete basing and wires, we’re going to need lots of Egyptians with stone cutting experience. Lots. Not a glamour job like cossacking, but someone’s got to do it. (Afraid we’re going to have leave the removal of offshore wind farms in the too-hard basket. Learn to think of them as quaint antiquities of old green religion rather than as hazards to navigation.)

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        • #

          Maybe South Australia will end up as a tourist attraction,
          Valley of the Dead, Ozymandias style, ‘Look on my works’
          - a monument to hubris. Printed brochures could be a
          profitable sideline.

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          • #

            Indeed, a withering civilisation can’t have too many hi-gloss brochures on energy saving. Gives ‘em something light-’n-bright to read that doesn’t take a lot of candles.

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            Greg Cavanagh

            I’d rather put up a big dingo fence with radiation signs every 20 metres. We can drive around it. Leave them in their utopia.

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    gnome

    60% of Australian’s what? Or do we need an apostrophe alert?
    If in doubt, don’t use one at all, no-one ever notices the ones that aren’t there.

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    cedarhill

    There is still good work for this site and others to do. The 15 percent uncommitted are likely just not engaged to find out the facts of the “renewables” unicorn. Of the 40% that want to commit to keep them, half are hard core lefties fully aware that it’s all about government dictatorship with the other half breaking down into various shades of Marxist theory combined with ignorance.
    Which means perhaps 25% can be convinced to join the 45%. Lot of work to do.

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    • #
      el gordo

      ‘Lot of work to do.’

      Essentially we are in this pickle because of a corrupt MSM, so in Australia we should concentrate our effort to bring the ABC back into balance by purging the newsroom of Trots.

      The left will call us Revisionists, but in fact we are revolutionaries demanding aunty obey her Charter. We want a balanced view of climate change, not too much to ask.

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    toorightmate

    Jo,
    The heading of this post shows just how stupid the climate “thing” is.
    Forget about 60% wanting cheaper power.
    99.6% of the Australian population would not have a bloody clue what the Paris climate accord says.

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    • #
      King Geo

      Too right mate. The 99.6% believe everything they read/see in the MSM (News Corp outlets in Oz excepted) – if only they read Jo Nova’s website.

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  • #
    PeterS

    So in essence we had our own sample of what a “BREXIT” version for getting out of the Paris agreement would look like. So what is the government waiting for? Oh of course. They, like the opposition are too busy sacrificing our economy for Gaia. The only way the public will ever get the message across to the two major parties loud and clear is to reject both at the next federal election and cause a major upset such that we have a minor party or two that are totally against this global warming nonsense holding the balance of power. That minor party or parties should then stick to their guns and refuse to form government until one of the major parties pulls out of the Paris agreement, scrap the RET and provide financial incentives to build several new coal fired power stations. Otherwise, what’s the difference? We might as well not have a government formed and let the economy collapse sooner rather than later.

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    RobbertBobbert

    Jo and readers,
    Whenever a poll is cited it is always worthwhile to go back to 2015 and view the results of the ‘UN MY World 2015. Vote for the world you want to see’.
    You are given 16 options and can vote for any 6.
    Some 9.7 million people worldwide voted and, if you note what issue runs Stone Motherless Last, it will come as NO surprise that the UN and The Alarmara do not even whisper about it.
    Note how the most voted subjects are what you would expect everywhere, and how the things we take for granted in the West are sought after as ‘special’ by those less than well off. People and Nations. And note how mostly the well off vote for the Hipster notions while the basic, and taken for granted everyday rights, are just that. Taken as Granted.
    Check out ‘MyWorld Analytics/Data 2015 for the very interesting results that The UN is mute to.
    Did its pet project and the actual reason for this survey disappoint and finish tailed off meaning they could not trumpet the final data as its propaganda and marketing?

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    Just Thinkin'

    Here it is, 2240 hrs EST and South Australia is producing 406 MW of “wind and other”.
    Now, this must be all wind.

    A question, ” how many square kilometres of land is occupied by the bird chompers to produce this power?”

    How many metric acres would a coal fired power station take up to produce the
    same amount of power? Continuously, 24 hours a day?

    Also, when are these “ruinables” going to have to bid for the “next five minutes” as do other power producers?

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      Just Thinkin'

      Well, here we are at 0717 hrs EST and South Australia is producing
      42 MW of power from “wind and other”.

      There is a fair bit being imported; just over 200 MW.

      Poor old Tassies is not producing ANYTHING from “wind and other”.

      And Queensland is “struggling” on with their coal.

      Ho hum…..

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      robert rosicka

      Wind has been problematic for Victoriastan and SA yesterday and today by the look of it .
      A troll on another site says SA got out of coal fired generation because it was too expensive how delusional.

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      Peter C

      This morning (Wed 1 Nov at 9am) the King Island Renewable Energy Integration Project is running on about 90% diesel, 9 percent wind and 1% solar.
      http://www.kingislandrenewableenergy.com.au/

      The value of this project should be to answer the question; How expensive is renewable electric power ( on a small scale)? I have asked them several times but have received No Reply.

      They have proved it can work (with 100% diesel back up capacity), but what is the cost and how does it compare with with a simpler system, running on diesel alone.

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        Graeme#4

        Wondered what had happened to that project – they have become very quiet recently about their “achievements”. Last I heard was that they had to replace their entire backup battery system. Love to see a detailed cost audit on the project.

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    Michael Reed

    Hey the general voting public are ignorant about how phony AGW is and the crap of the
    Paris accord ,especially when they do not have time or inclination to really look into it.Of
    course politicians of either party want to attract the green vote that’s why all talk of upping
    the bidding on emissions reduction .However reality is just starting to bite -increased
    electricity bills that now and into the future will only continue to increase.The new future
    will begin to ram home when job shedding (which is now already happening) gathers pace
    and unemployment grows then its mortgage default and then properly values decline.This
    means a recession is just around the corner and remember total government debt is really
    growing at an amazing and scary rate.A multiplier effect on government borrowings will occur
    as Australia ‘s crediit rating is revised .So nonsense polls about the cost of energy and the
    Paris accord will absolutely be meaningless in this new and not to distant future.Its all so
    annoying about how the RET is economically devastating this country and no idiot politician
    has got any answer.I suppose self interest and great superannuation is the explanation.

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    Richard Ilfeld

    SO the international pariah that pulled out of Paris and has profit-maximizing utilities has the cheapest, most reliable power in the world, AND the best actual performance on reducing emissions of all types. Ain’t real data a [snip] sometimes?

    Polls are like this: lots of people like dogs, fewer like a wet muddy dog jumping in bed with them.

    Bed=pocketbook — of course I care if it’s my money. Green salvation is someone else’s puppy.

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  • #
    Gerry, England

    ‘In Australia, no major party represents these voters.’

    The same in the UK and in the US Donald was needed to put a spine in the Republicans. The centre-left cancer is spreading everywhere so that normal conservative people have no parties to vote for. On Paul Homewood’s page somebody added to a comment about voting out the idiots ‘or at least not vote for them’. That is all we have left. Mass abstention from voting to drive turnouts down to a third or lower. Watch them wriggle to claim they have a mandate.

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      PeterS

      As history shows the decline of any empire starts from within. The type of “cancer” might vary but even then there is a common thread. Typical signs of the cancer are the desire to reduce freedom of speech, exploding government debt and increased taxes to try (and fail) to cover the debt that has the benefit to the government of weakening the populace into submission. Unfortunately for us the West is on the decline and will eventually join the long list of collapsed empires. Those who believe it’s different this time are deluded.

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        el gordo

        Your hypothesis has merit, but I stand alone deluded.

        We are in the 21st century, in the midst of a communication and technological revolution, its totally different to anything which has come before.

        Searching for historical parallels, is there anything to compare with Bitcoin?

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        • #
          robert rosicka

          Elgordo the wheel was a big thing in its day .

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          • #
            robert rosicka

            And sliced bread has done well for itself !
            Hah I’m able to green thumb myself so might try red thumbing instead .

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          PeterS

          The Romans said the same sort of thing – they though themselves better than the Greeks. Human nature does not change. Technology is irrelevant, and if anything is more dangerous now than ever before. Haven’t you been listening to what’s happening with North Korea? If the Romans, Persians, or others had nukes I doubt mankind would be alive today.

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          • #
            el gordo

            We have learnt from our mistakes, a couple of world wars had a sobering impact and a mutually assured deterrent prevented WW3.

            North Korea is of no concern, Donald won’t attack and Xi will try and persuade Kim that the world has moved on. Peace in our time, with huge commercial possibilities.

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          Graeme#4

          Remember Miondex? Another non-accountable electronic money scheme that vanished without a trace.

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        Greg Cavanagh

        The Roman Empire essentially collapsed because they ran out of Roman soldiers.

        While the entire military was Roman the chain of command held strong, but as the economy boomed, fewer Romans wanted to be soldiers (poor wages). So they hired mercenaries to fill the ranks of their armies. The mercenaries weren’t as committed, weren’t as trustworthy, and generally behaved badly with enemies and friends alike. Support for Rome dwindled and then provinces rebelled. Rome fragmented, leaving the Byzantines an open door to occupy.

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          el gordo

          The Roman Warm Period was real and around 400 AD the weather turned nasty in Britain, cooler and wetter. The intensive farming organised to feed the troops during the good times, became boggy and unusable for agriculture.

          Famine would have been a problem throughout all of Europe, as the world entered the Dark Ages.

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          el gordo

          Its worth a footnote, the Roman troops departed Britain after Rome was sacked on August 24, 410.

          So it was politics and not so much the weather.

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    • #
      el gordo

      ‘Mass abstention….’

      Works more effectively with compulsory voting.

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  • #
    The Great Walrus

    Re headline: The plural of “Australian” is “Australians”. It’s not really that difficult to master.

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  • #
    TdeF

    Asking Malcom’s Green Liberals to do something about electricity costs or a runaway tipping point Malcolm made Commonwealth deficit (Now over $500Bn) or the waste on NBN, Snowy II, windmills, VFT is really whistling into the wind. From Chistopher Pyne down they are uncaring opportunists. It is simply not their problem.

    As for Sovereign risk in removing the ‘subsidies’, there are no government subsidies, so there is no Sovereign risk. Repeal the RET and the handout of unearned cash by threats of punishment against electricity retailers will stop instantly. No company can sue for compensation for what should have been illegal in the first place. Passing a law does not make it legal, fair or just. The RET should go to the High Court.

    As an aside, I am still reading that the CO2 increase is man made. This essential fact is still unquestioned by even by many scientists and sceptics. Everyone implies it is obvious, even the very qualified head of the WMO. It is obvious like the idea that heavy things fall faster than lighter things. It is also wrong.

    It is simple to prove that the CO2 increase is not man made, that under 5% of all CO2 comes from fossil fuels, that the half life of CO2 in the air is 14 years and that only water temperature sets CO2 levels, but that’s real science.

    It is depressing now to read that CO2 is now heating the water, especially around the Great Barrier Reef. So it’s the Science Mad Hatter’s tea party. Fully endorsed by Malcolm’s Liberals, at your direct expense. Of course this could be labelled hate speech against politicians who will retreat to their safe place, parliament.

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      RickWill

      TdeF said:

      As for Sovereign risk in removing the ‘subsidies’, there are no government subsidies, so there is no Sovereign risk.

      If the government changes the rules and an investor loses as a result then that is a sovereign risk. It does not matter where the income stream comes from. The change to Labor in Victoria was a good example where the the East-West link was cancelled. The promoters were smart enough to assess the high sovereign risk so had binding contracts with regard compensation. Their planned income stream was from tolls, not general revenue.

      Certainly some of the wind farms have direct contracts with slate/local governments so they would not necessarily be affected by dropping the RET as the power purchases has accepted the RET risk. ACT energy is an example of one provider that carries the LGC risk through their reverse auction process. They accept an offer at a set FIT that the generator gets and the generator transfers the LGCs to ACT energy:

      The FiT is paid to the Proponent on a monthly basis by ACT electricity distributor (ActewAGL Distribution) for the ‘eligible electricity’ generated. Eligible electricity excludes any non-renewables (e.g. gas) and some ancillary services. In addition, the generator must have registered Large-scale Generation Certificates (LGCs) for all eligible generation and transfer them to the Territory.

      A large proportion of Australian businesses, notably the big banks, would be affected by terminating the RET; making LGCs and STCs worthless. The banks would not let that happen without a humungous fight.

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      • #
        TdeF

        That is not a Sovereign risk. PThis is completely different to the East West link where the contracts were with the State Government of Victoria.

        People who have borrowed might lose money without the cash from the RET and you could hold that the Federal government was ultimately responsible, but no contracts are with the Federal government.

        Business has risks. Borrowing to build windmills is a business proposition. It should not be dependent on money from third parties who have no ownership of the windmills. When the windmill is working, it will make a fortune as wind power is so much cheaper than coal. Isn’t it? Isn’t that the reason they are building the windmills? So where is the commercial risk to the Commonwealth?

        It has been an ancient principle of law, that you should not be ordered to enrich third parties under pain of governement punishment. That is what the RET does. We, the people who pay for the things, do not have shred of ownership. We receive no tax deductions as we are paying no tax. The poorest people, people who do not normally pay tax, are paying relative fortunes for power and suffering. It is all wrong.

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        • #
          TdeF

          As for the banks, save your tears. When did anyone borrow from a bank without offering more than adequate security, banks renting your own money back to you at a markup? The number one rule in banking is to never use your own money. Few beat this, notably Alan Bond, Christopher Skase and a few more. These people were criminals. Memory loss Bond eventually started his own bank with the stolen money. Skase bought an island. In the 1990s banks recouped their losses from home and business mortgagees at sky high mortgage rates They are not innocents.

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    TedM

    I would be happy to dump the “Paris agreement” even if it didn’t cut my power bill. I have no wish to party to a con.

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    • #
      RickWill

      My original post had more information but I suspect it did not get through the filter.

      The original claim dates back to 2011 so this might just be another step on a long path.

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        Graeme No.3

        What was the result of the Mann vs Ball court action? I’ve seen various claims that Michael Mann was guilty of ‘contempt of court’ but was this official?
        If so, then this action looks like an attempt to punish Ball for winning.

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        • #
          RickWill

          The Weaver claims and Mann claims both date back to 2011. Courts work at their own pace. I have not seen any ruling on Mann v Ball although there were certain statements on the web about Mann not complying with court requests.

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    pat

    1 Nov: Townsville Bulletin: Townsville left in the dark over power
    EDITORIAL: Well it’s official.
    North Queenslanders have been kept in the dark over the viability of a critical infrastructure project that’s designed to keep the lights on and cost of living prices down.
    A secret report buried by the Palaszczuk Government has revealed a coal-fired power station in the North would be viable.

    The Ultra-Supercritical Coal Power Station Valuation and SWOT analysis undertaken by Energy Edge cited the need for new technology to allow for existing plants to shut down.
    The Department of Energy and Water Supply was told of the finding in February.
    But the report’s details were not released to the public until now after it got into the hands of the LNP.

    It’s a big coup for Opposition Leader Tim Nicholls who has pledged to fast-track expressions of interest for a new high-efficiency low emission (HELE) coal-fired power station in North Queensland within 100 days of being elected.
    So why the secrecy?
    The Premier, Ministers and the city’s three sitting Labor MPs appear to have put all their eggs in the renewables basket, sticking firmly with its renewable energy target of 50 per cent by 2030.
    That’s despite their support of the Adani Carmichael coal project.

    Herbert MP Cathy O’Toole has also continued to toe the party line insisting renewable energy was the future of electricity, distancing herself from any support for the new power station…
    A new plant would also reduce the amount of electricity imported into the state and boost exports into NSW for the southern energy markets. In more simple terms, it means big savings for North Queensland households already dealing with the pressures of soaring electricity prices and cost of living stresses.

    If the LNP takes power on November 25, the critical infrastructure project could get the green light as early as March, at a time when households will be dealing with the shock of their summer power bills. Under Labor there may be no light at the end of the tunnel.

    Looks like this election will really be a power struggle.
    http://www.townsvillebulletin.com.au/news/opinion/townsville-left-in-the-dark-over-power/news-story/19a377b806e307456f2c7f4deabe2ad1

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      Graeme#4

      Also mentioned in The Australian this morning, with some cost figures that appear to indicate that not only is a new HELE plant viable, it will be profitable. Very interesting. I hope that the report will be released to to the public soon, as I believe it contains information that is important for Australia’s future energy.

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      Ross

      I just caught a bit on Sky with the Qland Premier saying a new coal fire power station will keep electricity prices high for 40 years. Time for Tony to educate her !!!

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    pat

    1 Nov: Townsville Bulletin: Report: Ultra-supercritical coal-fired power station in the North is viable
    by DOMANII CAMERON
    A SECRET report buried by the State Government has revealed an ultra-supercritical coal-fired power station in the North is viable, citing the need for new technology to allow for existing plants to shut down…

    But the analysis, obtained by the LNP and provided to the Townsville Bulletin, has never been released.
    Energy Edge, based in Brisbane, is understood to have more than 50 years’ experience across varying energy and environmental markets…

    The LNP has also revealed it has three interested offshore proponents eager to build the estimated $2.2 billion plant…
    Opposition Leader Tim Nicholls said the LNP, along with the private sector, would build a HELE plant in North Queensland, “to increase energy security and lower wholesale electricity prices”…

    Pauline Hanson’s One Nation has also proposed to build a HELE plant in the North, but Labor has consistently denied the need for one, sticking firmly with its renewable energy target of 50 per cent by 2030…ETC
    http://www.townsvillebulletin.com.au/news/report-ultrasupercritical-coalfired-power-station-in-the-north-is-viable/news-story/b3849207e95300a367bbbd4fb411967d

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      PeterS

      What the brain dead Labor and Liberal parties don’t understand is in order to reach 30-50+% renewables one must build HELE, SC or USC plants to phase out the old coal fired power stations, which will be shut down no matter what. That’s how the rest of the world is doing it. The only other option is to go nuclear as many other nations have already done, which of course is a big no no here for stupid reasons. Anyone who says we can reach higher %’s of reneewables without new generation coal fired plants are completely devoid of any intelligence, or are deliberately telling lies. The facts speak for themselves.

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        Chad

        You should refer people who question the issue to Germany as an example.
        Germany has over 100GW of RE generation ..(49GW of Wind, 42GW of Solar, 6GW hydro, 20 GW of Boimass) …as well as 100Gw of thermal, ..coal, gas, Nuclear etc, available.
        All this to support a maximum damand of 75GW peak.
        Dispite all this , they still have times when they have to call on imported power from Poland, France , etc, to prevent them having to impliment load shedding , or their grid from shutting down.
        This is the result of huge unpredictable swings in the supply of Wind and Solar energy.
        They have some excellent detailed data sources to show exactly what happens.
        https://www.energy-charts.de/power.htm?source=all-sources&week=42&year=2017

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      PeterS

      Pretty obvious why – hundreds of new coal fired power stations are being built as we speak all over the world – except here of course thanks to our inept politicians and the majority of the voting public. We get the government we deserve. The next federal election will be telling. Will Australians be awake and intelligent enough not to vote for the current ALP, LNP or the Greens in both houses of parliament?

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        Peter C

        A problem is how to vote?

        I can select Australain Conservatives (if they have a candidate), Family First and One Nation.

        Then maybe stop, recording explicit instructions on my voting paper that it becomes invalid if all my choices are eliminated.

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          PeterS

          Yes but what if enough people voted for one of those minor parties? Wouldn’t that make them a major party and trump both ALP and LNP? Surely our voting system is not so corrupted we can’t have a new major party even if the people so chose to elect one. If we can’t then this nation is dead for sure.

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          robert rosicka

          Peter C and Peter S great posts , first of all I’m doubting Cory Bernardi will have candidates in all seats but would gladly give him my vote .
          The way one nation is going with anti fracking and the Co2 change to small outdoor powered equipment which they helped pass makes me think they are no better than lib lab or green .
          Katter is following suit and that leaves blugger all , yes minor parties can have a big say if they hold balance of power but which one is the least green out of the above .

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            PeterS

            You have a point – not one minor party will cover all seats but surely the vast majority of seats will be contested by at least one party that’s not ALP, Greens or LNP. If enough seats are taken by the other parties outside those three groups then we would have a stalemate situation and some hard negotiations would have to be made. If all the minor parties got together and agreed on several policies to make the changes necessary, and enough voters switched on their brains for one minute when voting then we would block the current two-party wrecking ball from destroying this nation. Otherwise, we might as well let ALP+Greens in to finish the wrecking job currently underway by the LNP more quickly so that Australia can rise out of the ashes sooner rather than later.

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              robert rosicka

              And there’s option 2 , we’re headed up the creek without a paddle anyway and the sheeple won’t wake up till the lights go off and they cant get the favorite latte.
              So vote green and get it over with quickly , bit like pulling off a bandaid , either way it’s going to hurt .

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                PeterS

                Yes if the people don’t care then they should not complain when the pain becomes unbearable – they deserve whatever they get. We all have the power to elect whoever we want at the elections – that’s the upside as well as the downside of our version of democratic elections. Too bad most people don’t give a damn about how the nation is run. People these days place far more effort and stress over much more about deciding which mobile phone to buy next than to decide which party should form government.

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    David Maddison

    O/T

    Great news from US.

    Last year coal production is UP 7.8%.

    Previous ten years coal production was DOWN 31.5%.

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    pat

    Alan Jones has been on anti-Adani overdrive. quoting JAIRAM RAMESH – “FORMER MINISTER FOR ENVIRONMENT, INDIA” – as ABC called him in their Four Corners “Digging into Adani” program.

    apart from the fact Ramesh is a Congress Party politician, with political axes to grind, he’s also a bit of a globalist, according to Wikipedia:

    ***Wikipedia: Currently, Jairam Ramesh has been appointed as a member of a board which provides strategic policy advice to a key UN agency on environmentally-sound technologies for developing nations.
    Ramesh has accepted the offer to serve as a member of the International Advisory Board (IAB) which gives strategic policy advice to the Executive Director of United Nations Environment Programme (UNEP) on the programmatic direction of International Environmental Technology Centre (IETC).

    he seems to be more the Indian politician of late, so don’t know whether the Wikipedia reference is up-to-date, but this is interesting, given Ramesh seems to agree he approved this coal mine and the forest clearance involved:

    July 2016: EconomicTimesIndia: Jairam Ramesh says Gautam Adani is beneficiary of crony capitalism
    A war of words broke out between Jairam Ramesh and Gautam Adani as the Congress politician rejected allegations made against him by the businessman in an ET interview…
    “Shri Adani has claimed I am being inconsistent and that I am making him and his company a political target,” Ramesh said in an emailed statement after ET published the interview on Monday…

    Ramesh said he had made public the documents cited by Adani showing the former minister cleared the coal mine in Chhattisgarh referred to in the ET interview. “These papers were put in the public domain by me after taking the decision in July 2011to give the go-ahead to the government of Rajasthan in whose name the coal mine had been allocated and which had applied for approval. I stand by that decision fully,” he said…

    Following Ramesh’s comments, Adani told ET that his group didn’t own any mines in Chhattisgarh.
    “The mine which has been referred to by Shri Jairam Ramesh was allocated to government of Rajasthan during the (Congress-led) UPA (United Progressive Alliance) regime. Forest clearance was granted by Shri Ramesh himself during his tenure as the minister of environment and forests…

    “Incidentally, during that period, state government of Rajasthan was also ruled by Congress,” he said. “The mine is owned by the Rajasthan government.

    “The clearance was issued by Chhattisgarh government to Rajasthan government. Hence, we are surprised and fail to understand why Shri Ramesh is seeking an explanation from us on getting any benefit/favour in the said case?”…

    In his earlier interview to ET that was published on Monday, Adani had refuted allegations by Congress that he’d received special treatment with regard to the Chhattisgarh mining project. He said Ramesh as environment minister had approved the project and that it was his last executive order before leaving office.

    “Let me put the record straight,” Adani had told ET. “The mine is owned by the Rajasthan government. You would be surprised to know that this happened when Congress was in power in Rajasthan. And who gave permission for this mine? It was no one but Jairam Ramesh himself.” …

    In his response to Ramesh’s comments, Adani said Congress wasn’t taking credit for its role in opening up India’s economy. “The Adani Group is proud about their contribution to nationbuilding.

    This was made possible because of the opportunities provided due to the opening up of the Indian economy,” he said. “Shri Jairam Ramesh is undermining the contribution of Congress which ushered in the era of liberalisation.” The late Rajiv Gandhi conceived of liberalisation and this was built upon by the Congress government in 1991, he said.
    “Most leading corporates of today’s India, including Adani Group, owe their success to this,” Adani said.

    49 COMMENTS, MANY CALLING OUT CONGRESS PARTY CRONYISM, ETC
    https://economictimes.indiatimes.com/news/politics-and-nation/jairam-ramesh-says-gautam-adani-is-beneficiary-of-crony-capitalism/articleshow/53162585.cms

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    pat

    a look at ABC’s “Clive Palmer Redux”, starring Alan Jones, who ABC can’t stand, unless it suits their agenda, as in this case.
    what a long question Meredith gets to ask!

    30 Oct: ABC Q&Q: Liability, Instability and Deniability: Transcript
    TRANSCRIPT: MEREDITH KNIGHT VIDEO: begins 27mins29secs in:
    A key promise of the Queensland ALP government is the creation of much-needed jobs in regional Queensland. Premier Annastacia Palaszczuk is relying on assurances from the Indian company Adani that it will create 10,000 jobs through the creation of a mega coalmine in the Galilee Basin. However, this comes at a very high cost in terms of probable environmental degradation, including the already suffering Great Barrier Reef, and exacerbation of global warming.

    Also, realistic reports have shown that the best-case scenario of jobs that this mine will produce is more in the range of 1,500 jobs. Now, Premier Palaszczuk also said that the government will invest in renewables, which has the potential of creating many more jobs. So, isn’t it about time that the Queensland government, whatever it happens to be at the end of November, acknowledges that the risk is too great and replaces the Adani mine with renewables?

    TONY JONES: Alan Jones, I’m going to start with you, and we’ve got to disclose, first of all, for anyone who doesn’t know, that you are the public face of the anti-Adani ads, paid for by the Lock The Gate coalition.
    ALAN JONES
    I am. I am, and I’m proud of the fact.
    TONY JONES
    Are you a born-again greenie, Alan?
    ALAN JONES
    No, no, no. I just go on the facts of the matter…READ ON IF YOU WISH…

    PRESIDENT TRUMP
    CHLOE HUMPHREYS: This question is for Kevin Rudd. From an outsider’s perspective, the ***majority of America seems to desire the removal of Donald Trump from presidency. As a US resident, do you see the same negativity or are Americans happy with Trump being in power?
    KEVIN RUDD (BABBLES THEATRICALLY)
    (LAUGHTER)…
    KEVIN RUDD: I think the general consensus amongst anyone concerned with a public policy process, domestic or international, thinks he’s nuts.
    (LAUGHTER)
    http://www.abc.net.au/tv/qanda/txt/s4743444.htm

    WHY DIDN’T ABC CHECK OUT MEREDITH KNIGHT’S ANTI-COAL ACTIVISM & DISCLOSE IT TO VIEWERS?
    INDEED, WHY DIDN’T ABC CAMERAS SHOW THE “STOP ADANI” ON HER EARRINGS?

    Facebook: 31 May: Open Event – Guarding the Galilee Film Screening at Pitt St. UC (Uniting Church)
    Public · Hosted by ***Meredith Knight
    Presented by Queensland-born actor Michael Caton, Guarding the Galilee is a 30 minute documentary on the battle to stop the biggest coal mine in Australian history, Adani’s Carmichael project. This award-winning documentary team captures the raw beauty of Central Queensland, where Adani’s mine threatens essential water resources, pristine bushland, and productive farmland. It also threatens to harm the Great Barrier Reef.
    ***Guest speaker – filmmaker and activist ***Nell Schofield

    ABC’s Q&A likes ***Nell Schofield too. such a tight-knit mob:

    17 Jul: ABC Q&A: Adani, Armies and Assaults
    TONY JONES: Well, as the go to air tonight, there’s been a protest outside the ABC Studios against the giant Adani coalmine proposed for northern Queensland. Well, one of the people working on the Stop Adani campaign submitted a question earlier today. That’s where we’ll start tonight. It’s from ***Nell Schofield.

    here’s Meredith Knight’s earrings:

    Facebook: My Stop Adani earrings arrived! Perfect… – Mithra Cox, Greens …
    My Stop Adani earrings arrived! Perfect gift for that fashion conscious activist in your life.
    I think there’s a waiting list, but you can order them from AYCC here
    https://www.facebook.com/mithracoxgreens/photos/pb.112185209380722.-2207520000.1499762964./126520237947219/?type=3

    8 May: evensi: StopAdani Commbank Mobilisation!
    BREAKING: New evidence has confirmed that Adani banks with CommBank. Will we see you this Monday when we meet at Westpac HQ celebrate the win, then march to the CommBank HQ to call on them to rule out Adani?!
    Last week, we won. Community pressure pushed Westpac to rule out funding for Adani. The uproar from coal-loving politicians and Adani is testament to what a huge win this was…ETC
    COMMENTS:
    Meredith Knight (PIC): Awesome! Well done! Let’s sustain the pressure. Justice will prevail!

    listed among other Friends on Meredith Knight’s Facebook page:
    Galilee Blockade, Lee Rhiannon for the Senate, Stop CSG Sydney, Australian Youth Climate Coalition, 350.org Australia, etc.

    OUT OF 24 MILLION AUSTRALIANS, ABC SURE KNOWS HOW TO FIND THE FEW WHO GET TO ASK QUESTIONS ON Q&A OR PARTICIPATE IN THEIR OTHER PROGRAMS.

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    pat

    A tweet by Halah Touryalai, Deputy Editor at Forbes, Greater New York City Area (LinkedIn) on today’s terror attack in NYC:

    Twitter: Halah Touryalai: 31 Oct: This is scarier than Allahu Akbar.
    PIC: SCOTT PRUITT
    (LINKS TO MOTHER JONES ARTICLE BELOW)
    ***READ THE REPLIES…
    https://twitter.com/_halah/status/925479964685762560

    31 Oct: MotherJones: Scott Pruitt Is Using the Bible as His Guide for Reorganizing EPA’s Science Boards
    Climate change deniers are celebrating.
    by Rebecca Leber
    Environmental Protection Agency Administrator Scott Pruitt on Tuesday used the Bible to explain his major changes to the composition of the agency’s independent science advisory committees, which play an important role in guiding and advising the EPA’s regulatory work.
    “In the book of Joshua there is a story about Joshua leading the people of Israel into the promised land after Moses passed away,” Pruitt said. “And Joshua says to the people of Israel choose this day whom you’re going to serve. And I would say to you this is sort of like the ‘Joshua Principle’ that as it relates to grants to this agency, you are going to have to choose either service on the committee to provide counsel to us in an independent fashion or you can choose grants, but you cannot do both.”…

    What the “Joshua Principle” means for the EPA is that scientists who receive agency grants for their research are now barred from serving on any of its independent advisory boards. This opens the door to more industry and political representation on the Clean Air Scientific Advisory Committee, the Board of Scientific Counselors (BOSC), and the Science Advisory Board (SAB). The EPA’s most ardent critics in past administrations cheered the directive, which was announced at a “Live Press Event”—though it was unclear that many reporters were invited to attend…

    There are widespread implications of appointing industry-sympathetic members, especially as Pruitt’s EPA plans to take a new look at many of the EPA’s scientific conclusions regarding climate change, air pollution, and water pollution…

    Well-known climate change deniers Smith and Senator James Inhofe (R-Okla.) joined ***a parade of white men who gave speeches at the EPA headquarters heralding the new era of its scientific review….
    Steve Milloy, a lawyer connected to tobacco and oil companies and contends that the EPA overstates the health risks of air pollution, cheered the announcement…

    The CEO of the American Association for the Advancement of Science (AAAS) Rush Holt denounced the decision in a statement…

    Months ago, Pruitt didn’t renew many scientists’ appointments to the Science Advisory Board and the Board of Scientific Counselors. Around the same time, the EPA administrator first floated his idea to form red and blue teams to debate the scientific consensus that humans are causing dangerous climate change…
    http://www.motherjones.com/environment/2017/10/scott-pruitt-is-using-the-bible-as-his-guide-for-reorganizing-epas-science-boards/

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    pat

    PDF: 1 page: EPA: E. Scott Pruitt, Administrator: SUBJECT: Strengthening and Improving Membership on EPA Federal Advisory Committees
    https://www.epa.gov/sites/production/files/2017-10/documents/final_draft_fac_directive-10.31.2017.pdf

    READ ALL FOR EXAMPLES:

    1 Nov: DailyTelegraph: Australian Research Council to apply new standards to university grants to ensure value for taxpayer money
    by Renee Viellaris
    UNIVERSITIES – accused of being a breeding-ground for claptrap research – will next year be forced to prove their taxpayer-funded grants helped families or the economy.
    The gravy-train crackdown, to be revealed on Wednesday by the Turnbull Government, aims to deliver better bang for buck for taxpayers, who invest $3.5 billion in university research each year…READ ALL
    http://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/news/national/australian-research-council-to-apply-new-standards-to-university-grants-to-ensure-value-for-taxpayer-money/news-story/de32f78bfbd636e06b1cce4a9f56bd86

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    ROM

    As we all know,the Climate Change Industry has an extraordinary propensity towards making innumerable predictions about the “Climate Change” created catastrophic future facing mankind and the predictions of the definite probabilities of major climatically created catastrophes affecting every aspect of our lives and the global environment unless “We Do Something.”

    A list of the predicted Climate Change created Catastrophes, all 883 of them and thats only up to March 2012 when the blogger gave up as he could no longer keep up with the flood of the “Climate Expert’s” Predicted climate related catastrophes , can be found at “A complete list of things caused by global warming”

    As the Climate Change Catastrophe industry is so very orientated towards making predictions, can any Climate Change consensus believers here who read Jo’s blog or in fact any climate blog plus any commenters or lurkers here, provide a link to a comment or a statement from a prominent Climate Change Consensus Expert on just what sort of Global Climate we might expect, what changes and “improvements” in the global climate and the local climate we might see and enjoy if and / or when we finally follow the dictates of the Climate Consensus believing industry and reduce or eliminate all CO2 and all of mankind’s impacts on the climate by eliminating all fossil fuels and reforestating all areas outside of the city limits and closing all coalmines and mandating the use of electric cars only to get rid of the pollution that is destroying the global climate through “Climate Change” .

    Surely amongst all those hundreds and thousands of never ending predictions made by the participants in the Climate Change Catastrophist’s industry, there has to be some predictions on the “improvements”, the changes for the better, the saving of entire species , the saving of the “environment”, the type and spread of the highly advantageous to all global life and the environment type of changes to be expected in the Global climate and what those changes will be if and when we eliminate “Climate Change” caused by mankind.

    Surely there are carefully assessed calculations on how widespread and how impactful those changes will be, changes that have been assessed and calculated as a very significant planet saving benefit by the “Climate Change” industry participants, changes made if the Climate Change catastrophist industry have their way, through the citizens of this planet making massive personal and communal sacrifices in the the endeavour to control Climate Change if we are to believe the predictions of the consensus Climate Change industry and its climate expert’s predictions for the future.

    I personally have yet to see any such prediction, even just a single prediction, on the ultimate benefits to the planet of eliminating “Climate Change” from any prominent Climate Change consensus experts on just what we might expect re our global and local climate if and or when “Climate Change” is eliminated from our planetary climate.

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      Allen Ford

      Right on cue, the UN Alarm Factory is churning out a flurry of dire predictions, just in time for the “UN climate conference – COP23 – that begins next week in Bonn”, according to an article in today’s Sydney Morning Herald

      The World Meteorological Organisation said atmospheric carbon dioxide levels rose at a record pace last year, rising 3.3 parts per million to 403.3 ppm. That’s the highest in as much as 5 million years, and the last time it was this high, sea levels were as much as 20 metres higher and temperatures 2-3 degrees warmer.

      Hey, wait a minute! As I understand it, humans produce only 3%, in round figures, of total annual increase in CO2, which leaves 97% due to natural origins. In other words, humans produce only 0.099ppm of the 3.3ppm increase, or put another way, 1 part per 10 million(!), yet we are supposed to believe that this puny amount of CO2 will push the planet over the cliff, whereas the remaining 3.2ppm will have little or no effect!

      When is someone with some balls in our government going to call the UN’s bluster and show them up for the blatant fraudsters they patently are?

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    pat

    meanwhile, the American media industry continues to implode. posting for the record as NAOMI ORESKES’s brother Michael is the latest to make news:

    31 Oct: WaPo: NPR’s top editor placed on leave after accusations of sexual harassment
    By Paul Farhi
    NPR is investigating allegations by two women who said the head of its news department made unwanted physical contact with them while he was employed by another news organization nearly two decades ago.
    The women, both journalists at the time of the alleged incidents, made the accusations in recent weeks against Michael Oreskes, senior vice president of news and editorial director at the Washington-based public broadcasting organization.
    In response to the allegations, NPR said Tuesday that it has placed Oreskes on indefinite leave…

    Both of the women spoke to The Washington Post on the condition of anonymity so as not to damage their employment prospects…
    https://www.washingtonpost.com/lifestyle/style/nprs-top-editor-accused-of-sexual-harassment-by-two-women/2017/10/31/a2078bea-bdf7-11e7-959c-fe2b598d8c00_story.html?utm_term=.f0631e66db34

    31 Oct: NPR All Things Considered: NPR’s Head Of News Placed On Leave After Past Harassment Allegations Surface
    by David Folkenflik
    The allegations from the two women were first reported by The Washington Post on Tuesday afternoon…
    Meanwhile, a current NPR employee is going public with her account of filing a formal complaint with the network’s human resources division in October 2015. Rebecca Hersher says she considers the incident less severe but nevertheless felt it crossed a line and made her uncomfortable…
    Oreskes did not respond to multiple efforts to reach him for comment…
    http://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-way/2017/10/31/561267272/nprs-head-of-news-placed-on-leave-after-past-harassment-allegations-surface

    Wikipedia: Michael Oreskes
    Michael Oreskes is the Senior Vice President of News and Editorial Director for the United States radio syndicator NPR…
    He has three siblings: Naomi Oreskes, a historian of science…
    Prior to NPR he was the Senior Managing Editor at the Associated Press. He also worked for the New York Times, New York Times Television, and NY Daily News.
    In 2017, Oreskes was accused of sexual harassment while working as the Washington, DC bureau chief for The New York Times during the 1990s.

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      PeterS

      Who would have guessed? I think most of us could have told them that before the ink dried. It’s really amazing how politicians like Turnbull and Shorten are screaming we must cut our emissions and move to more and more renewables in the vain hope of helping the climate. Clearly we could reduce our emissions virtually to zero by shutting down all businesses and industries, destroying all fossil fuel powered power stations, removing all vehicles and ripping up all our roads and airports, and the net impact on the climate would be zero. Yet for some reason they have us believe instead of reducing our emissions to zero in those ways, we could reduce them by a smaller amount and achieve a large impact. People have been put in prison for life for far less.

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    pat

    31 Oct: ClimateChangeNews: Juncker’s ‘Rasputin’ moved to weaken EU electric car push – sources
    Martin Selmayr, the powerful Brussels chief of staff, ordered commissioners to drop sanctions that would punish carmakers for missing proposed electric vehicle targets
    By Arthur Neslen in Brussels
    Jean Claude Juncker’s chief of staff instructed EU commissioners to remove potential sanctions on automakers who fail to reach electric car targets, according to sources, even though documents seen by Climate Home News show VW has lobbied for comparable measures.

    Martin Selmayr, a German lawyer and one of commission president Juncker’s closest advisors, sent out the order last Thursday following a meeting with Matthias Wissman, the head of the powerful German auto-manufacturers lobby, the VDA, two EU sources confirmed.

    On top of reducing the electric vehicles mandate – due to be proposed on November 8 – to a voluntary scheme, Selmayr, the powerful official dubbed ‘Rasputin’ and ‘monster’ by UK Brexiteers, also demanded that a 2025 target for vehicle emissions reductions be scrapped.
    Selmayr denied he had made the intervention. “This is not true. Obviously invented,” he told Climate Home News…
    The day before he spoke to Selmayr, Wissman and Gunther Oettinger, the German vice president of the commission, made a joint plea for there to be no electric car quotas in the EU proposal…READ ON
    http://www.climatechangenews.com/2017/10/31/junckers-rasputin-moves-weaken-eu-electric-car-push/

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    pat

    LOL. all part of the war on coal:

    31 Oct: UK Independent: Gas companies spend €104m lobbying to ensure Europe remains ‘locked in’ to fossil fuels for decades, report finds
    Gas industry representatives met with the two European commissioners in charge of climate and energy policy and their cabinets 460 times, according to analysis of European transparency filings
    by Ben Chapman
    It claims that gas lobby groups have used their financial firepower to push the “myth” that gas is a clean fuel in order to win financial and political backing from the European Commission for costly and potentially useless pipelines and other infrastructure.

    A group representing gas companies and set up by the Commission is mandated to recommend projects and then analyse their cost-effectiveness, which many of its members then build, the report (LINK PDF 31 PAGES) from campaign group Corporate Europe Observatory (CEO) said…

    This dwarfs the amount spent by public interest groups advocating a fossil-free future by a factor of 30, according to the analysis. It did not say how much renewables companies spent on lobbying in that time…
    The top spender is CEFIC, the European Chemical Industry Council, with a budget of over €12m and 82 lobbyists, followed by General Electric which spent €5.75m in 2016 and Shell which spent €4.75m…
    http://www.independent.co.uk/news/business/news/gas-industry-spending-millions-lobbying-to-ensure-europe-is-locked-in-to-fossil-fuels-for-decades-a8028056.html

    31 Oct: EU Observer: Gas sector spends €100 million annually on lobbying EU
    By Peter Teffer
    The sector employs at least 1,000 lobbyists, and secured hundreds of meetings with the two EU commissioners with climate and energy in their portfolios…
    According to the report, gas lobbyists met with European Commission vice-president for energy union Maros Sefcovic and climate commissioner Miguel Arias Canete more than 460 times between November 2014 and August 2017 – on average three meetings a week.
    “The EU has proven highly responsive to pressure from industry and member states, providing policies that give gas significant legislative, political, and financial support,” said the report…

    The group also criticised the EU for going along with the gas lobby’s narrative, which states that “gas is clean, gas is the natural partner of renewables, and gas offers a transition to a decarbonised world”.
    But while gas does emit less CO2 than coal or oil, the fossil fuel “potentially has a bigger carbon footprint than oil and even coal”, the report said, because of methane leaks…

    Wikipedia: Miguel Arias Cañete
    READ THE FOLLOWING TWO SECTIONS:
    European Commissioner for Climate Action and Energy, 2014–present
    Controversies
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Miguel_Arias_Ca%C3%B1ete

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    Amber

    What stikes me as somewhat surprising is that Labor , the supposed saviour of the “working people ”
    are 50% in favor of supporting the wealth transfer and job killing Paris Accord .
    Kind of hypocritical to sell out unionized workers for a massive fraud . What a waste of union dues .

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