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Australia, Denmark, Germany vie to win Highest Global Electricity Cost! (It’s the Nobel Price Prize?)

It’s not even close: If South Australia seceded it would have the highest electricity price of any nation on Earth.

 Australian Households pay highest power prices in the World, AFR.

South Australian households are paying the highest prices in the world at 47.13¢ per kilowatt hour, more than Germany, Denmark and Italy which heavily tax energy, after the huge increases on July 1, Carbon + Energy Markets’ MarkIntell data service says.

When the eastern states’ National Electricity Market was formed in the late 1990s, Australia had the lowest retail prices in the world along with the United States and Canada, CME director Bruce Mountain said.

 The Markintell report graph:

Markintell, global electricity prices, graph, SA, NSW, VIC, Sweden, Denmark, Germany, UK, USA.

Hmm — odd coincidence of Price with Wind Energy Penetration:

Wind energy is “free” but countries with the most wind power are also the most likely to get to the top of the Prize Pool for exorbitant electricity. Wind energy penetration is highest in  Denmark (1st), Portugul (8th), Ireland (6th), Spain (11th), Germany (3rd). Conversely, renewable energy penetration is low in places at the tail end of the price curve like Luxemburg 6%, Estonia 15%, Hungary 7%, Lithuania 15.5%. In the low mid price range is France with 80% nuclear generation, and Finland which is 47% Nukes and Hydro.

Could be a message there?

If South Australia were on the graph of wind penetration below it would be equal second at 30%. 

Wind energy, market penetration, generation percentage, international, chart.

 

The end cost of electricity is not just decided by the amount of wind power as a percentage of the grid. Australia as a whole is a stand out – despite having wildly expensive electricity, it only has (as a whole) 5% wind. using 83% fossil fuel sources, it In NSW, Victoria and Queensland, most electricity is generated from fossil fuels. Nor is the cost of electricity due to “renewables” alone, because hydropower is low cost. Countries with a lot of hydropower like Norway have high renewables but low prices. What we can’t find though is a single country with high wind and solar generation that also has cheap electricity.

The Nobel Peace Prize leads to the Nobel Price Price.

Read on to find out (some) of why Australia is such an odd fish.

It’s not just renewables in Australia, the National Electricity Market is a bureaucratic nightmare

Something very seismic has happened to our electricity prices. Despite 76% of our total mix coming from inexpensive coal generation, and only 10% or less coming from intermittent renewables, our prices have doubled. As Judith Sloan says, our NEM “is complete madness”: (The Australian)

The NEM operates one of the world’s longest interconnected power system. It covers a total distance of about 5000km from Port Douglas in Queensland to Port Lincoln in South Australia, with 40,000km of transmission lines.

But herein lies one of the NEM’s weaknesses: it is a very long, weakly connected system which does not provide the ideal underlying conditions for the ­efficient and transparent operation of the market for electricity. The penetration of renewables, as well as their preferential access to the NEM, has made this weakness even more apparent.

The NEM is not a free market, it’s so over-regulated with state and federal layers and counter committees to undo or outdo each other that any normal price signal is lost.

If we look at the operation of the NEM, one standout feature is the proliferation of regulatory agencies. There is the Australian Energy Market Commission, the Australian Energy Regulator, the Australian Energy Market Operator and the Clean Energy Regulator. And just because we don’t have an enough empire building in the electricity space, the government will add yet another agency: the Energy Security Board, one of the many unfounded recommendations of the Finkel review of the security of the electricity system.

The market used to have a reliable supply with intermittent demand, now both sides of that equation are volatile. The forced uptake of intermittent renewables must surely make the whole system a much more complex beast, and the generators are gaming that volatility. In this case, even the Queensland government is in on the act:

The Queensland government is also attempting to destroy the NEM by instructing one of its generators, but not the other, to bid low at peak times. Mind you, that government has been more than happy to reap the excessive dividends produced by the gaming of the system by these generators.

The customers get screwed by everyone in this:

Some of the bigger [private] players are behaving in duplicitous and self-serving ways, the most egregious example being AGL. All that marketing tosh about being committed to renewables while coal and gas make up 93 per cent of its output of electricity.

The other problem is complexity and customers being unwilling to shift

The big corporates are offering big discounts to get customers to switch then quietly raising the charges a couple of years later. (AFR)

“…big retailers are content to let customers slip off the deep discounts they attracted them with after a year or two, and onto a costly standing offer or a much smaller discount.

Punish loyal customers

AGL Energy chief executive Andy Vesey admitted last year that big power companies were guilty of punishing their most loyal customers in this way, but said subsequently AGL was abandoning the practice.

Australian Competition and Consumer Commission chairman Rod Sims said last week he wanted to help consumers find better offers and lower barriers to new entrants to curtail the market power of AGL, Origin Energy, EnergyAustralia and Queensland’s state owned power duopoly.”

Mr Mountain said power bills are constructed in such a complex way that ordinary customers without sophisticated spreadsheet and analytical skills have little hope of analysing competing offers to work out which offers them the best deal.

Private comparison websites do not include all market offers and charge retailers for switching customers, while the websites offered by the Australian Energy Regulator and the Victorian government do not provide the tools customers need to discriminate among offers.

There is no free market for electricity in Australia. If a group just built a coal fired plant and lined up free and consenting customers willing to pay  for 100% fossil fuel based electrons, it would be breaking the law. If customers can buy “clean energy” why can’t they choose “fertilizing energy”?

 

BACKGROUND: As a whole the EU uses about 50% thermal, 25% nuclear, 12% hydro, 10% wind, and 4% “others”.  The breakdown by generation source is graphed (awkwardly) here.

 

h/t Bob FJ, StopTheseThings.   Markintell Research, 2017.

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Australia, Denmark, Germany vie to win Highest Global Electricity Cost! (It's the Nobel Price Prize?), 9.6 out of 10 based on 74 ratings

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137 comments to Australia, Denmark, Germany vie to win Highest Global Electricity Cost! (It’s the Nobel Price Prize?)

  • #
    Rod Stuart

    Does this surprise anyone?

    141

    • #
      Crakar24

      I am surprised someone could write such a comprehensive report on this complex debacle

      121

    • #
      mal

      I live in NSW.
      Yesterday I renewed my electricity supply contract with Origin Energy for 12 months.
      Their base rate was 27.09 c/kwh
      I managed to get a 22% discount (Pay on time , direct debit, electronic statements etc).
      For next 12 months I will be paying 21.13 c/Kwh.
      Where did NSW retail price of 39.10c/Kwh in this article come from?

      Having said that I agree if we got rid of renewables and RET’s, built new HELE coal plants or upgraded existing coal fired plants, we would reduce wholesale prices significantly

      However it is the gold plating of the poles and lines and the amount of costs in retailing the product where a lot of the electricity price increases have occurred.
      I have been told by my nephew, who is in the electricity game, that the value of the transmission Infrastructure is valued at about $75 billion Australia wide whilst the USA is $100 billion. I cant verify if true, but if so, we have vastly gold plated the infrastructure.
      Selling public utility assets by state governments has put monopolies into private hands whose only motive is to maximise profits for management and shareholders.
      The sale of poles and lines may benefit state government coffers to spend on new infrastructure etc in the short term, but the increased electricity costs are borne by consumers and businesses which have a direct impact onto cost of living and employment.
      Our electricity prices should be near the cheapest in the world.
      It is poor policy by both the federal and State governments that is leading us down the wrong path.

      181

      • #
        James Murphy

        As much as I appreciate industry insider viewpoints, I am still somewhat at a loss when it comes to understanding what really makes our infrastructure “gold plated”?

        What constitutes adequate, or a ‘Goldilocks’ approach to infrastructure maintenance, expansion, and upgrades? There are, in my opinion, areas where infrastructure is substandard – overhead cables where underground solutions would result in better up-time, less damage, and fewer repairs, for example. That’s not gold-plating, that’s just reasonable engineering, if the circumstances permit such a solution.

        Where is unnecessary and overly elaborate infrastructure being built? (building infrastructure for “renewables” is most certainly not ‘gold plating’, that’s just obscene waste).

        In each case, facts and figures should speak for themselves, if they are documented anywhere.

        91

        • #

          This might look like I’m elbowing in here to get a Comment close to the top, and I don’t do that often, but I’d just like to comment on something that James Murphy mentioned in his own comment here, where he writes this:

          As much as I appreciate industry insider viewpoints, I am still somewhat at a loss when it comes to understanding what really makes our infrastructure “gold plated”?

          This (most probably) media propogated ‘meme’ that out infrastructure is somehow gold plated is a bit of a fallacy really.

          What needs to be understood here is the size of Australia and the sparse population compared to that area, and from that, the actual power generation required to, umm, service that population.

          Australia has (roughly) the same area as the Continental United States.

          So, here we have a similar area, so, a similar area to be covered with ‘poles and wires’ to get the generated power to where it is being consumed.

          However, the population of the U.S. is 325 Million, and for Australia only 24 Million, so they have a greater population by a factor of 13.54, and that is for a relatively similar land area.

          Now, when it comes to power generation for consumption, you only need power generation enough to cover the population and all its consumers in those three areas, Residential, Commerce and Industry.

          The total power generation in the U.S. is 4080TWH, and for Australia around 260TWH, so the U.S. is greater by a factor of 15.7, which in fact is quite similar to Australia.

          However, and here’s where that land mass area comes into it.

          Because the population of the U.S. is greater, and their power generation is greater for a similar land mass area, then their consumers are a lot closer to where the actual power generation is.

          With distance there are losses in the transmission of electrical power, so, extrapolating from that, then the Australian situation sees the consumers further away from the power generation sources.

          Hence, the losses are greater here than they are in the U.S. losses measured by a percentage factor of the power being generated and then consumed.

          Our Australian grid construction needs to be more robust than it is in the U.S. and that is what seems to have been translated as ….. ‘gold plating’ ….. by comparison.

          Think of Bayswater, one of the largest power generating plants in Australia, and in fact providing probably one of the main sources of power for Sydney. That’s 250Km away.

          There is no city in the U.S. of similar size with a major power plant supplier that far away.

          See the point here?

          We have a vastly larger area to cover, by comparison, and because of that our loses are considerably higher.

          It’s not gold plating per se, but the actuality of supplying power for vast distances.

          Queensland consistently generates 1000MW more than it is consuming, and that power is being delivered into Northern NSW, and the distances there would be even longer, and that’s about as far as that power can be transmitted, and that excess power being generated in Queensland would not get as far as Victoria, before it petered out to zero from the losses along the way.

          Think also of South Australia, relying on the brown coal fired power generated in the Latrobe Valley in Victoria.

          There is nowhere in the U.S. where a situation like that occurs.

          So, the AEMO has to find a way to deliver power from vast distances all across the Country to places where that power is being consumed.

          The problem is more complex than just looking at what is being generated per capita of population.

          We have a vast coverage area, a (relatively) small population and enough power just to cover all that consumption.

          I hope I’ve explained that in a manner clearly enough to be understood.

          Tony.

          60

      • #
        Robber

        Mal, at #1.2, see my response at #22 – got shunted down the list.

        21

      • #
        Robert Swan

        Those valuations are interesting. Are they the expected cost of rebuilding the networks from scratch? If so, a large part of the (lack of) difference is how much better the USA is at building infrastructure than we are. Here’s a snippet from an e-mail I sent a few years ago:

        Actually, that reminds me. Just when I arrived in Denver the big story was that there had been a rock fall in the west of the state on the main east-west highway (I70). A bunch of boulders had fallen from 2000ft high cliffs onto the highway, punching holes in a bridge and generally making a mess. When I heard that repairs might cost $750,000 — yeah, thousands, not millions — initially I laughed, but then started to consider it with more bitterness. We get inured to these enormous numbers with our school “revolution” nonsense — or the Blaxland railway refurbishment which saw two lifts and some corrugated iron roof put in for $1.4m. You wouldn’t get an Australian road building firm to turn up for $750,000. Just maybe the answer to our eternal Pacific Highway “upgrade” is to get the Yanks to do it (as long as we don’t tell them what we’d usually pay).

        I wonder how our glorious road system would measure up against the US one if you valued them at replacement cost. It’s probably worth more! Bear that in mind next time you’re bumping along the (not so) Great Western Highway.

        Bet it’s just the same with the grid.

        71

      • #
        GI

        Mal,

        My last power bill in NSW was 24c/kwh – Origin. I note the daily supply fee is $1.36 so add about 6kwh per day for that and you’re probably close to 40c/kwh.

        The compulsory purchase of Large Scale Energy Certificates at about $80.00/MWh from Wind/Solar generators by the retail networks adds about 8c/kwh to our power bills.

        132

  • #
    Mark D.

    That’s it AU, get yourselves a good brand of generator for home use. Build a separate shed to house and muffle it and a big mean dog to keep nosy snoops away.

    I’d tell you to arm yourselves to defend against the future starving hoards too but, well, that ship left harbor a while ago.

    211

    • #
      Gee Aye

      Yeah that is the world you live in. You poor thing

      325

      • #
        Crakar24

        One can only imagine a world in which you have the right and the ability to defend ones self, excuse me while I get a tissue to wipe that tear from my eye.

        161

      • #
        Mark D.

        Thank you for your concern but, Gee Eye, the world I live in is the same one you inhabit. Your perfume smells strongly of denial.

        212

  • #
    Gee Aye

    Just out of interest. Did you test whether any other sub jurisdictions would beat South Australia?

    Surry?

    Oregon?

    Epirus?

    Coquimbo?

    Munchinga ?

    620

    • #
      Griffo

      Do you have any info? At a guess Surrey and Oregon prices for electricity should be close to the average prices for UK and USA,Epirus ditto for Greece,who knows for the other two,what is your point GA always elusive as usual.

      82

    • #
      Peter C

      Did you test whether any other sub jurisdictions would beat South Australia?

      Gee Aye, Did you test for that

      80

    • #
      Crakar24

      Botswana, Zimbabwe, Chad, Sierra Leone and several other small African nations do better than us GA, as always what is the real question you wish to ask

      81

    • #
      Graeme #4

      US electricity rates vary from USD 0.09 up to around 0.25, so the figure quoted for the overall US rate in the first graph looks about right. A lot of states in the US have access to cheap hydro.

      50

  • #
    Chris in Hervey Bay

    Just before I came home from the United States, I paid my electric bill in Newtown, Pennsylvania.
    I paid 6.6 cents / kwh.

    I was on the plane on the 10th August and arrived back in Brisbane on the 12th.

    I believe I sent Jo a photo copy of the bill in an email just before I shut everything down.

    180

    • #
      crakar24

      6.6 cents LMBFAO

      Breaking news from ground zero:

      Peak price pre July 1 30.75 c/Kwh Post July 1 38 c/Kwh
      Peak next 34.5 c post July 1 does not exist
      Controlled load (you know when we rely only on base load) 15.38 c post July 1 22 unflipping believable cents per KWH

      It is now cheaper for me to remove my electric HWS and replace it with bottled gas that’s an indictment on The Jay from the land of Ill weather.!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

      my feed in tariff has increased from 8 c to 16c which will help in summer.

      My bill is over $750 for the quarter, that’s cheap as compared to others if I don’t factor in the $300 I spent for wood heating.

      We need help now and all our id eye ot ic premier can do is build tourist attractions

      100

      • #
        Andrew McRae

        And you can be sure Weatherill’s Folly will be frying wedge tailed eagles before long.

        By the way I have started watching a Stossel documentary on Green Tyranny, and I may have just seen the most amazingly frank admission from an environmental lobbyist ever. Watch what this guy from The Natural Resource Defence Council says about the relative threat from man-made and natural disasters, at time 7:06 in this video.
        https://youtu.be/UGCpTh6rbms?t=407

        I think this guy just said that the only reason they let volcanoes off the hook is volcanoes don’t operate for profit.

        10

  • #
    LittleOil

    The sad thing is that many people and some of our Governments believe that our best way out of this mess is to build more renewable power generation as it is cheaper than coal fired power. Are there any good studies on this question?

    90

    • #
      Peter C

      Very Good Question.

      60

      • #
        ROM

        A renewable Electicity Standard; What it would really cost American’s
        [ 2010 but still very relevant ]

        There are a series of graphs in this study which show the huge increases in costs of power to consumers, the burden on the economy, the loss of employment with the imposition of Renewable Electricity Standards in the USA which I only wish I could replicate here on Jo’s site

        The high costs of renewable energy systems
        &
        Renewable Energy Standards;
        A $5.2 Trillion Burden [ USD $'s ]
        &
        Renewable energy standards would eliminate millions of Jobs
        &
        Renewable Energy Standards would Increase Federal Deficit

        ———-

        Conclusion

        Mandating that an ever-increasing fraction of electrical power must be generated from renewable sources will raise the cost of electricity, force inconvenient and painful cuts in electricity use, and damage the economy. Households will see their electricity prices rise 36 percent by 2035, while industrial users will see their electricity prices rise 60 percent even after adjusting for inflation.

        Since virtually every product and service depends on electricity to some extent, these price increases have pervasive impacts. Compared to projected levels without the RES, economic activity falls by $5.2 trillion, which is an inflation-adjusted average annual loss of $218 billion, or more than $2,400 per family of four each year.

        Declining economic activity is bad for employment. Implementing the RES cuts jobs. Compared to baseline projections (that is, without the RES), employment averages 1,000,000 jobs below the baseline projection.

        Though the source of wind and solar energy is free, power delivered from these sources is very expensive. For now at least, onshore wind is the cheapest renewable energy source that can be scaled in significant fashion. But scaling up wind power simply lays bare the costly nature of harnessing wind and magnifies the economic losses. A renewable electricity standard is not a path to the new economy, but an example of the stale old thinking that will hobble the already damaged economy with job-killing cost increases.

        To find this study, I used the “Yandex” search engine as Google and the other major American West coast based corporation’s search engines have now been shown to use AI algorityms to preferably filter left orientated articles into the top of the Search Lists.
        “Yandex” gave me a very differnt search list to that given by Google with the same search phrases and wording.

        Eric Schmidt , head of Alphabet, the owner of Google was an adviser and a very munificent supporter of the Clintons and the Democrats and the American leftist causes.

        40

    • #
      Eric Simpson

      This comment a few years back by Wes George:

      “Imagine the total civil breakdown that would ensue if the electric grid failed for an extended period in Sydney or London… It’s worth noting that if a major city lost all electric supply in 1950, it wouldn’t have been catastrophic… Then ask yourself — why do we tolerate those in our polity who are working to weaken our already over-extended energy generating and delivery systems?”

      210

    • #
      RickWill

      Are there any good studies on this question?

      I operate on-grid and off-grid solar systems. My largest continuous loads are run off grid. This maximises my income from the on-grid system. My off-grid system is unsubsidised. I bought the components direct from China and installed myself. My cost of funds is taken as current rate for term deposits so quite cheap. On a 20 year project life with one battery replacement my cost works out between 45 and 50c/kWh, depending on actual usage. I am reducing the cost a little by using more off grid solar for water heating during part of spring, summer and autumn. If you had a commercial installer do the job with unsubsidised components the cost works out around 70c/kWh.

      The linked report was provided to the Finkel inquiry:
      http://www.environment.gov.au/submissions/nem-review/willoughby.pdf
      It is based on my experience and data operating my off-grid system but scaled up to meet the NEM demand using solar power. I base the solar production on the grid scale plant at Broken Hill. It has a higher capacity factor than my system in Melbourne.

      It may surprise you how much intermittent generation and storage is actually required to meet the NEM demand. The data in the Finkel report, provided by the Jacobs Group, is simply unreal. If you work through the logic of the report you get an appreciation of the key problem with intermittent generation. For solar generation the only test that matters is whether your system can supply power during the last two weeks of June and first two weeks of July when located in southern Australia. Summer is never an issue with solar in this part of the country.

      Wind and solar do not benefit from scale. In fact grid connected systems are worse than local generation because they need to make up for transmission losses. On commercial terms the wholesale price will level out around AUD500/MWh if intermittents are continued to be encuoraged through subsidies into the NEM. Retail prices will be no less than any household could get using solar to generate their own power from unsubsidised equipment.

      The problem is that no heavy industry can exist with power above $500/kWh. AND remember the components made in China to achieve THIS price used coal for power generation. The price will be much higher again if the power was supplied from intermittent sources. With current renewable technology the world will simply work full time at making energy. Everything else will be a luxury. Eventually food will become a luxury item. The energy returned for energy invested in wind and solar production is too low to make it viable. Basically it is no different to subsistence farming where all the energy gained from eating the food produced goes into growing that food.

      South Australians are not even carrying the full burden of their experiment. Electricity buyers in other states are also subsidising the experiment through the purchase of LGCs. The companies operating wind and solar farms in SA are sucking money from all parts of the country; not just SA.

      The only place for wind and solar is off-grid. If it is not economic there then it is also uneconomic at grid level.

      Grid prices will continue to rise unless the RET/CET or any other mandated distortion is removed. If removed all the grid scale wind and solar are uneconomic. If the mandated distortions remain it will push more people to produce their own power and the cost of operating all the plant will fall on fewer buyers. Look at how much money SA is throwing at hardware to just get reliability back. It ALL comes at a cost. All that installed capacity and it is all wasted when the wind does not blow. The big battery might run a single suburb for a couple of hours.

      320

      • #

        A good and informative post, Rick.

        I liked this bit:

        The energy returned for energy invested in wind and solar production is too low to make it viable. Basically it is no different to subsistence farming where all the energy gained from eating the food produced goes into growing that food.

        Thanks!

        150

      • #
        Manfred

        Thanks for the interesting post RickWIll. I may be missing something, but why would one intentionally pay 45 and 50c/kWh?

        Your post reminded of the quest for the perpetual motion machine. Look around Youtube. The large number of people who apparently believe in the viability of such a device is breathtaking. It seems that Progressive education omits the first law of thermodynamics about as consistently as it omits instruction in critical analysis. Worshipping at the altar of Climatism is an act of faith. Little wonder that the brethren also believe wind and solar is free boundless energy as .

        It’ll be interesting to gradually watch this unsustainable boondoggle unwind as the populous remove themselves from the grid for economic reasons, and return to minimal trivial power use or even no power use. Most will be unable to afford private solar arrays, battery banks or anything other than micro-windmills with a peddle option.

        I made it my goal to buy enough dividend yielding shares from power companies so that our power bill is paid by the annual dividends. It’s an added bonus that the share price has also risen over time. If I have to dump and run, I guess that the funds could be used to buy a windmill and batteries. Solar is not an option where we live.

        120

        • #
          RickWill

          Manfred ased:

          Thanks for the interesting post RickWIll. I may be missing something, but why would one intentionally pay 45 and 50c/kWh?

          Back in 2011 I got the impression the only way for electricity prices was up. I was getting 66c/kWh for exported power so I could get a return on any cost below that. I was reasonably confident that the FIT would be curtailed (but it hasn’t yet) and service fees would rise so I wanted to understand what I could achieve with off-grid when the FIT ended. It has given me valuable experience running a large format lithium battery off-grid. It will be one of the longest continuous running LiFePO4 batteries in Australia. When I installed it most solar providers did not know what lithium batteries looked like.

          I also expected lithium battery prices to fall as volume went up but they have not. Any price fall in LiFePO4 batteries has been is USD but the falling AUD means batteries are more expensive now than when I bought them. A large portion of the cost in Australia is shipping from China.

          If the RET or CET remain, the wholesale price for power will be no less than any individual can achieve with their own rooftop system. It will be a bit cheaper in Alice Springs or Broken Hill than Melbourne but most of the population live on the coast and suffer cloudy days so not much difference around the coast.

          30

          • #
            RickWill

            I should add that a self-installed system in SA could be producing cheaper power there than the current retail price from the grid. The acceleration in retail prices has exceeded my expectations.

            30

  • #
    cedarhill

    Trump’s master plan is now exposed for all that have eyes to see. All he’s planning on doing is helping move manufacturing from the Loons of Energy Locals to the USA. Of course he’s having competition from China, India . . .

    90

    • #
      Peter C

      Do not understand. What are you talking about?

      30

      • #
        Gee Aye

        Whatever it is , it is not on topic. Which means it is on topic.

        311

        • #
          Robert Rosicka

          So how much do you pay gee aye , selected the green option have you ??? Got all the power saving devices and switch everything off ??? Do you have solar panels and how big is your system ???

          61

          • #

            err… OK

            errr… OK

            errr… OK

            (answered irrelevant vexatious nonsense three times to match the triple question marks)

            25

            • #
              Robert Rosicka

              In other words you’d rather not answer and let everyone know your a hypocrite!

              81

              • #
                crakar24

                you don’t know the half of it

                61

              • #

                I thought you were trying to follow this sub thread about Trump’s masterplan within a blog post about energy prices, but it seems that you’ve randomly, just now, wanted to label me a green and asked me to answer a bunch of questions including to disclose to you my home arrangements.

                Your aggressive and rude tone does not deserve a response and it would be nice if the mods occasionally enforced the blog rules on this.

                Yes I try to reduce my energy costs by buying efficient devices when I need something new and turning things off when not needed. You don’t have to be green to save money. Do you not do these things? If not why?

                btw I get paid for some of my work by the Liberal party and have never voted Green. Look back in time for verification – it is probably what Crakar is alluding to.

                46

              • #
                el gordo

                The mods are biased, I remember an outlier being forced to apologise for calling someone ‘sunshine’.
                [That is ridiculous!] ED

                20

              • #
                crakar24

                You know what I am alluding to GA, hint you have written my first name in this blog.

                41

              • #

                not sure what you mean specifically but I think it might be even more off topic than we already have

                24

              • #
                crakar24

                Time for GA to run away quickly as usual

                41

              • #

                I don’t want to pee people off with this sideshow. OK. I’m still here… what am I running away from if I run away? What are you alluding to?

                15

              • #
                Robert Rosicka

                Never called you a green , if three question marks offend take a teaspoon of cement .
                You never replied to what you were paying per kilowatt!

                21

              • #
              • #
                Robert Rosicka

                Ok so you don’t want to answer an inconvenient question , let’s face it that’s what you’re here for to change a subject or answer a question with a question.
                I have no interest in chasing the squirrel link you’ve provided , I think it’s safe to assume you don’t pay the extra green surcharge your retailer offers , neither do I but I’m not preaching CAGW .
                As far as trolls go your not very good at it .

                31

              • #

                If someone could explain what you are talking about that would help.

                btw – I pay the cheapest rate (mentioned here elsewhere but not to you) I can for power and guess what? It is the green option.

                15

              • #
                Robert Rosicka

                I know I shouldn’t feed the trolls but how can a green option be cheaper than a standard rate or same as a standard rate ? I’ve never seen a green rate same or cheaper but I guess that will be your delusional little secret .
                And how does your meter box seperate coal from renewable?

                21

              • #

                It is just as a result of bundling and a “short time” offer and it will end soon. In the offer green wasn’t cheaper as there was no option for non-green but it was cheaper than other offers. I’ve written offer enough for one paragraph.

                Be interested to know what you think defines a troll? Is it just someone who doesn’t hold your world view and expresses such? I like the following definition which pretty much sums up post 6 and post 6.1.1.1.1 – you know the post that lead to all this off topic blather

                …sows discord on the Internet by starting quarrels or upsetting people, by posting inflammatory, extraneous, or off-topic messages in an online community

                03

              • #

                crakar24
                August 18, 2017 at 11:52 am

                Time for GA to run away quickly as usual

                8 minutes was obviously too long to wait between posts

                03

              • #
                Robert Rosicka

                See now there you go again but this time you give half a vague answer to one question but instead of answering both you head off in a different direction looking for the squirrel .
                If I’m correct you live in the ACT , the ACT does have some renewable generation but is getting fed coal power as well , so how can you have a green only option ? Oh that’s right it is the ACT .

                20

            • #
              TedM

              Sounds you’re being evasive GI.

              31

          • #
            Robert Rosicka

            Actually I prefer this description of a troll .
            In reality, they feel completely opposite of what is portrayed to others. From an intrapersonal and interpersonal dynamics standpoint, Trolls are plagued by immense feelings of inferiority, isolation, rage, paranoia and jealousy for peers. Instead of getting professional help or support from loved ones, Trolls prefer their insignificant virtual world fueled by grandiosity fantasies.

            https://darkpsychology.co/troll/

            10

        • #
          GI

          Leaf, there comes a time when you just need to pick a side.

          62

      • #
        cedarhill

        It’s simple. All aluminum production will move out of SA and go to the USA. Another industrial enterprise that uses energy will move out of SA and go to the USA. Even given the shipping charges it will be far, far cheaper to ship ore to the USA and aluminum products back to SA.
        Who would have known that Trump’s release of the US energy sector will result in world domination. Be sure to vote for the chaps running SA. Good show and all that!

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        • #
          el gordo

          There is a glut of aluminium throughout the world and what we produce in Australia is valueless, so it would be better to close the plants down. China is the biggest producer and they will undercut the US.

          32

  • #
    oldbrew

    Call it the Dummkopf league.

    50

  • #
    Eric Simpson

    47.13¢ per kilowatt hour

    Utter insanity.

    Of course I’ve heard the leftist loons would love to see $2 a kilowatt hour and $10 a gallon gasoline, so this could be just the tip of the iceberg.

    The US rate is pulled up by states like CA and NY that have relatively sky high rates because they also have the green lunacy disease. Many US states, though, are around 8¢ per kilowatt hour, with in 2015 Washington apparently being the lowest at 7.41¢ per kwh, though that is in US$. Here’s the state by state US electricity costs: http://www.neo.ne.gov/statshtml/204.htm

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  • #
    Ian Hill

    When I get my next electricity bill I’ll dig out all my old accounts from the past ten years or so and draw a graph of the first of four hockey sticks, one for each season!

    100

  • #
    ken h

    I think it’s around 8.xx cents where I live in Canada.

    70

    • #
      Senex

      You don’t live in Ontario, I’m guessing. Highest electricity prices in North America, thanks to the green feed-in tariffs (subsidies to all of the rent-seeking wind and solar generation companies).

      80

  • #

    There are important niche uses for wind and solar. Now. And one day something will replace hydrocarbon fuels. Not now. Replacing abundant hydrocarbon fuels now with these old and feeble niche technologies is like performing euthanasia to relieve the fear of death.

    This is the permanent danger of intellectuals and intellectualism. Most intellectuals feel both driven and entitled to know the future, and to force their jerry-built, slapped-up “solutions” upon a future they can never know…and which will never want their white elephants.

    Green globalism is looking more like clunky old communism every day. Maybe there never was much of a difference. Globalists just say “market” a lot, as a sort of incantantion so they don’t look so bolshie.

    But it seems to be the same old combo of intellectuals, technocrats, elitists and thugs getting together for a better world guided by that same great collectivist principle: one can’t incinerate an omelette without smashing all the eggs.

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    • #
      ROM

      .
      momoso @ # 11

      Green globalism is looking more like clunky old communism every day. Maybe there never was much of a difference. Globalists just say “market” a lot, as a sort of incantantion so they don’t look so bolshie.

      But it seems to be the same old combo of intellectuals, technocrats, elitists and thugs getting together for a better world guided by that same great collectivist principle: one can’t incinerate an omelette without smashing all the eggs.

      An excellent summation of the whole disastrous renewable energy stupidity, plus much, much more of other stupidities that is being forced upon us by the aforesaid intellectuals, technocrats, elitists and [ deep green ] thugs.

      80

  • #
    Marvin

    That listing is unfair! It doesn’t include the province of Ontario, in Canada!

    80

  • #
    pat

    some have mentioned US electricity prices.

    apart from Calif, it seems consumers in the US are extremely price-sensitive. a mere 3 cents extra per gallon of gas aka petrol and there’s an automatic negative public reaction.

    compare with the response of Aussies who see their price of petrol vary by 30, 40, 50 cents or even more per litre from one petrol station to another on any given day, or any given hour. a few complaints to talk shows on the radio.

    same goes for our electricity prices, which vary greatly even within States. most people feel they’ll get screwed sooner or later even if they do change suppliers.

    jo has done a great job trying to make sense of it all, but it is time for us to demand from our politicians and the energy companies a better accounting for these ridiculously high prices.

    ***as for poles and wires, does anyone know if upgrading transmission lines to accommodate connecting “renewables” to the grid play a part in that cost? if it does, what percentage could be attributed to that?

    wish I could be clearer…but this is not a subject that allows for much clarity.

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    • #
      Richard Ilfeld

      Being “price-sensitive” is the fundamental characteristic of a free market. “Price” is not so much an economic value as an informational
      value. In a free market, many users may pay many prices, because a transaction happens between a willing seller and a willing
      buyer. At any moment the motivations vary, as do the relative values of the transaction. There is, statistically, a marginal price for the
      group. This price, and its trend,signals providers as to their best course of action, and consumers as well.
      The process may be messy, but no better scheme for gaining a better life for most has evolved.
      In the graph at the beginning of the article, he US is shown to have relatively low prices. The US is huge, with many different
      jurisdictions. The percentage variation within the US is probably greater than the variation in the graph between countries, with the vast majority of this variety
      below the rest of the world; bulk electricity at 4-6 cents is not unheard of.

      Decrying the heavy hand of government in power generation and distribution is futile; as the concept of a ‘natural monopoly’ has universally forced the stultifying embrace of regulation upon the industry. As regulators do, the once common practice of on-site self-generation or co-generation of power has had to be curbed.
      It just wouldn’t do for the people to see examples of efficient operations, they might demand the same for themselves.

      The ‘wind’ that most correlates with higher prices is the bloviation of the progressive left, whose arguments always fail versus reality, thus requiring
      institutional control of the essential elements of life, and the flow of information to survive.

      Killing fossil fuels, abortion on demand, quota based diversity, curtailment of freedom of speech, celebration of victims, contempt for religion ……
      The folks on the left can live your life for you better than you can live it yourself.
      The natural human condition is to want “more”.
      The elites on the left want you to have “less”. (Only they, in their enlightenment, deserve more).

      Who says feudalism died in the middle ages.
      When the coal plant is physically destroyed, a point of no return has been passed. Perhaps it is time to leave while you can.
      There are not man cases of progressives reversing course and returning power without serious struggles.

      Australia has a fabulous history as a free people and a moral light to the world; many citizens still reflect this.
      Poll in the US, we love you guys.
      But she now resembles Venezuela in the sense of being a resource rich nation, exporting like mad, yet suffering domestic shortages.
      And its a damn shame.

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    • #
      RickWill

      In Victoria there were two key factors that drove investment in poles and wires. The first was upgrading transmission lines, some cases replacing overheard with underground, to lower fire risk. That followed the black Saturday fires in 2009. The other was the roll out of smart meters ; about 3 million of them. The later should have reduced the retail margin as it made billing easier; I doubt that is the case.

      The distributers make money out of investment in new lines that connect remote generators. The tooth fairy does not pay for that investment. It is government sanctioned cost plus handsome profit.

      Consider what SA has needed to spend to accommodate the closure of Hazelwood. Gas turbines, diesel generators, BB battery and now CSP. All that expenditure gets paid off by people and firms who need to buy electricity.

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  • #
    Robert Rosicka

    In Victoriastan mine is 34 cents and 17.5 cents last bill for quarter with 5000 watt solar was $650 .
    At least oz is leading the world in something , we have the most village idiots too but best not dwell on GA .

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  • #
    Robert Rosicka

    Peak 2 rate is 37.95 cents , peak 1 rate is 33.95 , off peak is 17.50 cents and poles and wires is $122.38 billed as 89 days .
    While I don’t ever remember being charged the peak 2 rate it’s certainly more than the chart says for Victoriastan.

    40

    • #
      Robert Rosicka

      Was looking at an old bill , last bill I did pay 37.95 cents because I went over 380 kw in a month .

      30

  • #
    EyesWideOpen

    Above anything, this article just goes to prove how incompetent and ridiculous my country has become.

    Complexity is one thing, but the global warming hoax gibberish has also held up any movement towards super critical coal power plants which could have added super efficiency, solid base load power, and vastly less complexity to the grid.

    So it’s not just the rubbish renewables that have already been attached onto the existing grid, but the green tape that has destroyed a truly progressive development of modern coal power plants.

    The Greens and Labor have killed the very heart — energy — of our national economy for generations to come. They are total cancer to the host, and it has already critically metastasized, I’m sorry to say. RIP Australia. Marxism scores another scalp.

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    • #
      Mark M

      It is now universally accepted that the carbon tax is a very bad thing promoted by evil people.

      The evil goes back a bit further than Julia Gillard’s broken promise and Kevin Rudd’s inane pronouncements. This tax has been a long time coming, and has mixed paternity.

      The last dark deed of the Howard Government was the passage of the National Greenhouse and Energy Reporting Act in October 2007. That act is the auditing basis of the carbon tax.

      Mr Howard’s plan was to get the auditing system bedded down, then start taxing.

      Labor’s carbon tax would be a couple of years behind schedule if Mr Howard had not laid the bureaucratic foundations for it.

      http://newsweekly.com.au/article.php?id=5257
      . . .
      It is no longer right v left.
      It is the elites v the deplorables.
      I am deplorable.

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      • #
        EyesWideOpen

        Well, there’s some give and take. Howard had enough wisdom to follow the Americans when they exited Kyoto, but you’re right about him laying the foundations for the auditing system. Howard has, however, come out against the global warming industrial complex (GWIC) since.

        It’s not really until the Climategate emails leaked that many of these politicians who weren’t left wing loonies realized the extent of corruption taking place in the ‘scientific’ process. It’s hard for politicians to fight against academia/science bureaucracies because of the Bishop-like reverence these agencies have attained in the ‘enlightened’ era. Thus, I prefer to judge the individual, in this case Howard, on the way he acted after Climategate.

        “I am very sceptical about the possibility of a global agreement ever being reached when you look at what happened in Copenhagen,” … “Tony Abbott now has the great responsibility and honour of being prime minister of Australia because a little under four years ago he challenged what seemed to be a political consensus on global warming,” … “alarmists” … “zealots” … “the cause has become a substitute religion” … “Scientists are the experts in science, judges experts in interpreting the law and doctors skilled at keeping us healthy, provided we take their advice. But parliaments, composed of elected politicians, are the experts at policymaking and neither expressly or impliedly should they ever surrender that role to others.”
        – John Howard. 2012. London @ Nigel Lawson’s Global Warming Policy Foundation.

        It would seem, Howard only put an auditing mechanism in place in the spirit of wanting access to correct information, which by itself is a good thing, but you are right that it just became a forged weapon for the neomarxists once they took power under the Fabian Socialists … erm, sorry, Labor Party and the short lived nightmare Labor-Greens coalition. God help us all if the Greens ever get power in this country.

        Judging by the utter left-wing brainwashing I encountered at school in the 1990′s I shudder to think how detached from reality the under-30′s in Australia are when it comes to political and financial agendas corrupting scientific public policy. It’s scary to watch.

        20

  • #
    pat

    ABC shills for solar again. with the commercial media, at least we know they earn advertising $$$ for doing so:

    17 Aug: ABC: Millions can’t reduce power bills through solar panels due to rise in rentals and apartment living
    ABC Radio Sydney, By Amanda Hoh
    But according to the 2016 census, more than 2.6 million people in the state can’t access solar energy to help offset electricity bills because they are renting properties or living in an apartment block.
    “It comes down to they don’t own a roof to put solar on,” said Mike Roberts, a solar analyst with the Australian Photovoltaic Institute and researcher at the University of NSW…

    Mr Roberts analysed census data and calculated the top 15 local government areas (LGA) in NSW with residents potentially locked out of solar.

    (LOL) North Sydney was at the top with 74 per cent of residents living in rental properties or in an apartment.
    Sydney was second with 68 per cent, followed by Waverley, Strathfield, Botany Bay, Woollahra and Randwick…

    What can apartment blocks do?…
    Mr Roberts said large apartment high-rises often with up to 100 units were some of the easiest dwellings to incorporate solar energy compared to smaller blocks…
    What can renters do?
    Mr Roberts said individuals could make a tiny dent in their electricity use by buying portable solar panels and using it to charge appliances such as mobile phones…

    How is Stucco going?
    The Australian Photovoltaic Institute is set to launch its data analysis at the Stucco social housing block in Newtown…
    Tenant ***Sarah King said each unit, some of which house up to five people, had cut their monthly electricity bills by 50 per cent…
    http://www.abc.net.au/news/2017-08-17/millions-of-residents-locked-out-of-solar-benefit-to-power-bills/8813664

    ***ABC’s Amanda Hoh has quoted Sarah King previously:

    8 Dec 2016: ABC: Stucco students install one of Australia’s first shared solar and battery systems for apartment block
    by Amanda Hoh
    After 18 months of “bureaucracy” and jumping through regulatory hoops, the students of Sydney’s Stucco apartments have finally achieved their goal of spearheading a “solar revolution”…
    Last week 30 kilowatts of solar panels were placed on the roofs and 36 batteries set up in the building totalling 42.3kW storage capacity…

    “As poor uni students, that difference in a bill makes a huge difference,” Sarah King, Stucco committee president, resident and social work student, said.
    “There’s also the great feeling of using green clean energy as opposed to dirty coal…

    The cost of the project totalled $130,000, with the solar technology costing $97,000…
    The students received an $80,000 grant from the City of Sydney…
    PHOTO CAPTION: The Stucco installation includes 30kW of solar modules, 114 microinverters and 36 batteries for a total of 43.2kW of storage capacity
    http://www.abc.net.au/news/2016-12-08/stucco-student-housing-installs-shared-solar-battery-system/8103298

    ABC’s TripleJ liked the story too:

    2 Dec: ABC Triple J: Sydney students pioneer Australian-first solar apartment project
    By Ange McCormack
    If you’re keen to reduce your carbon footprint, switching to solar is probably the most logical first step.
    After all, the sun Australia gets is *perfect* for solar…
    (Bjorn Sturmberg, Louis Van Ransberg) and Stucco’s President Sarah King got to work – drafting an innovation submission to the City of Sydney for a grant…

    RN’s AM this morning liked the Mike Roberts’ angle:

    AUDIO: 3mins05secs: 17 Aug: ABC AM: Australia’s housing affordability crisis could work against emissions reduction measures: researcher
    Pretty much everyone knows that power bills are going up while housing is becoming less affordable, and a new analysis suggests those twin trends could also keep Australia’s carbon emissions high. Researchers at the University of New South Wales have used census data to work out how many Australians are unable to install solar panels because they don’t own the homes they live in. And according to their findings, millions – including 2.6 million in New South Wales alone – are locked out of the solar energy market altogether.
    by Stephen Smiley
    Featured:
    Elissa James, Sydney renter
    Mike Roberts, postgraduate researcher, School of Photovoltaic and Renewable Energy Engineering, University of New South Wales
    http://www.abc.net.au/news/2017-08-17/australias-housing-affordability-crisis-could-work/8815578

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  • #

    The US price of electricity is somewhat misleading as there’s a very wide range. For example, here in California, I pay about .30 ker KWH for my incremental Joules. The tiny amount that I get for about .15 per KWH, the so called ‘lifeline’ tier, is barely enough to keep the lights on.

    90

  • #
    pattoh

    Imagine how much higher some EU countries electricity prices would be without French nuclear power.

    Macron was a banker[ a kindred spirit to Malcolm] so I guess he will have to keep the EU’s lights.

    However, imagine if Le Penn(?) won & the rest of the EU got all DNC/James Comey/ Paul Ryan/Antifa/Soros Hissy Fit on them.

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  • #
    PeterS

    It is now clear the meanings of “good” and “bad” in today’s secular world varies and is transient depending on the person’s opinions, beliefs and agenda at the time, which in themselves can vary very frequently without notice. Absolute goodness for example is now illogically and stupidly perceived as relative to the observer. It explains why the LNP has changed colours and has no real heart in reducing the cost of electricity despite their obvious deleterious impact on our economy and as a whole our society in the long run, no more so than the ALP and Greens. Our politicians no longer have any sense of “the common good”. They are more interested in their careers, and how much money they can siphon of us tax payers. In my mind at least, all this spells an inevitable catastrophic collapse in our society and economy, and as a result the destruction of what was once a great nation. Let “Rome burn” and “let them eat cake” are their mottoes. There is one and only one possible way out of this path to destruction. Do not vote for either major party or their dependents/partners. Continuing to vote for them is simply a vote of acceptance of the current downward spiral. People like Cory Bernardi may be our only hope, and I stress maybe. At least we would not be any worse off. Being a realist though I know things will not change for a number of reasons and we will continue to go down the road of destruction. That’s the sad fact. When that happens then and only then will people wake up.

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  • #
    el gordo

    Tender less is simply super.

    ‘The $16 billion privatisation of electricity company Ausgrid will be examined by the NSW Auditor-General amid questions about the “unsolicited proposals” process used by the successful bidder.’

    SMH

    30

  • #
    Robber

    Mal, similar story, my latest bill shows usage charge of 26.9 cents/KWhr for last 3 months, but then I get a 42% discount. However you also need to factor in the daily supply charge of 85 cents/day that can add another 6 cents/Kwhr depending on your usage and then add the 10% GST to get a comparison with the published data. All up I paid 25 cents/Kwhr, well below the published data. But without a discount I would have been paying 36 cents, similar to the published figure of 35 cents for Victoria.

    50

  • #
    Another Ian

    Around this area


    How Much Renewable Energy do you Get for $4 trillion?
    By Euan Mearns on August 17, 2017 9:02 AM | 9 Comments

    Not much according to the IEA and Roger Andrews.”

    http://www.smalldeadanimals.com/2017/08/how-much-renewa.html

    20

  • #
    crakar24

    AGL bills starts with

    Dear Schmuck

    You might’ve noticed that AGL looks a little different. We’re thinking a little differently too. And moving towards a cleaner, more sustainable energy future.

    Here is a summary of your latest electricity bill. You can view more details and manage your account using the links below.

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  • #
    David Maddison

    Question about SA’s solar thermal plant.

    Even by the low standards of solar, wouldn’t it have been much cheaper and simpler to build a photovoltaic “power station” with panels and Big Battery backup than the solar thermal plant?

    What is the engineering or economic considerations of building one over the other, disregarding the inappropriateness of this type of power generation in the first instance (except for niche applications at very remote sites).

    33

    • #
      crakar24

      Heres an idea, we could build an USC coal plant in Pt Augutter which has a very high efficiency and just to keep the f u c k t a r d s happy we could pay someone to build a solar plant to assist in the boiling of water to make it even more (slightly more) efficient.

      40

  • #
    crakar24

    Based on my AGL bill, over the next 90 days it will cost me $330 to boil water, anyone from SA know a good plumber and gas fitter in the Billsville area?

    50

  • #
    Graeme #4

    In WA I’m paying around 25c. Although it’s difficult to obtain data on where our power comes from, I believe the majority is from coal, gas second. Glad that we are not part of the NEM network.

    30

  • #
    ROM

    Jo’s headline;

    Australia, Denmark, Germany vie to win Highest Global Electricity Cost! (It’s the Nobel Price Prize?)

    Now consider what is coming down the line like a high speed freight train whilst Australians are FORCED to stand in the middle of those rail lines by the utter stupidity of an uncaring, selfish ignorant and innumerate political class and an extremely selfish green left ideologically insane academic and bureacratic elite and watch that freight train of the pauperisation of Australia bearing down that line in the very near future unless there is a major and rapid rethink and re-orientation to sensible and realistic energy policies by the elitist political and bureacratic classes.

    It appears that those same elites in politics, univerdities, bureacracies and hard left green NGO’s, the worst by far of the lot, that they are so stupid and so ignorant of the facts and realities of energy supplies and systems that they seem to believe they will somehow themselves be completely immune to any breakdown in power supplies in the future as they implement their “denial of energy” policies to australian citizens through insane prices for energy and denial of supplies to our citizens, all to somehow to satisfy their own personal insane quests to be responsible thermselves for “saving the planet”.

    Rational, sensible, low priced and completely reliable orientated Energy policies which if not put in place very soon will lead to the destruction of the living standards and wealth we Australians have created over the last couple of hundred years.

    I have posted the below on Jo’s site previously but in line with the headline subject of Jo’s above , this study seems particularly relevant this time around and its contents are the reason for my”freight train” analogy above;
    ………………………..

    A study dated February 2017 from Phys.org
    [ My bolding ]

    Study suggests choice between green energy or economic growth

    Poverty, unemployment and zero economic growth are the likely outcome for countries which choose renewable energy sources over fossil fuels, according to a study.

    Energy from fossil fuels appears to ignite economies into greater and more sustained growth, whereas energy from wind and solar power not only fails to enhance or promote economic growth,

    The results, from an in-depth study of more than 100 countries over 40 years, pose a serious ethical dilemma, according to the lead author, economist Dr Nikolaos Antonakakis, Visiting Fellow at the University of Portsmouth Business School and Associate Professor at Webster Vienna University.

    Dr Antonakakis said: “Put simply, the more energy a country consumes, the more it pollutes the environment, the more its economy grows.
    And the more the economy grows, the more energy consumption it needs, and so on.
    “This poses big questions. Should we choose high economic growth, which brings lower unemployment and wealth for many, but which is unsustainable for the environment?
    “Or should we choose low or zero economic growth, which includes high unemployment and a greater degree of poverty, and save our environment?”

    Dr Antonakakis and co-authors, Dr Ioannis Chatziantoniou, at the University of Portsmouth, and Dr George Filis, at Bournemouth University, set out to study whether environmentally friendly forms of energy consumption were more likely to enhance economic growth.

    In the light of recent policies designed to promote the use of green energy, including tax credits for the production of renewable energy and reimbursements for the installation of renewable energy systems, the authors predicted that environmentally friendly forms of energy consumption would enhance economic growth.

    Dr Antonakakis said: “It turned out not to be the case.”

    They argue that societies now need to rethink their approach toward environmental sustainability, and strongly question the efficacy of the recent trend in many countries to promote renewable energy resources as a reliable alternative for helping achieve and maintain good economic growth.

    The researchers gathered data on gross domestic product (GDP), CO2 emissions and total and disaggregated energy consumption for 106 countries from 1971-2011.

    The results were the same across all countries, from rich to poor.

    Dr Chatziantoniou said: “It’s a very thought-provoking result and could, in a roundabout way, help explain why no country or state has yet managed to fully convert to renewable energy.

    “It could also be that we have not yet learned how to fully exploit the benefits of renewable energy – we don’t yet have the level of know-how.”

    Of the countries studied, NOT ONE showed good economic growth while promoting and investing in renewable energy.

    More >>>

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    • #
      crakar24

      And I just figured out why………..

      According to the AGL website my latest bill was $1400 less than the average home, granted I pay approx. $300 for wood in this quarter but that still leaves $1100. I cannot imagine paying over 2K for power this qtr which is why as ROM states

      Of the countries studied, NOT ONE showed good economic growth while promoting and investing in renewable energy.

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      • #
        OriginalSteve

        That’s balecause its a suckers game…..

        The previous USA Marxist-in-Chief said power prices would have to rise considerably to fit his utopian leftist vision…..guess little ol Oz is the crash test dummy….

        00

  • #
    crakar24

    Turnbulls tough words to retailers is working sweet.

    Logged onto AGL, looked the 4 offers they have (3 new deals and my current plan). All 4 deals have exact same rates in addition “my current plan” has rates that differ from what my bill says I am paying.

    What a joke

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  • #
    pat

    further to comment #17 – ABC/Stucco:

    ABC carried this from The Conversation, which has no mention of Sturmberg’s connection to Stucco, or his other interests, see his Disclosure statement at The Conversation link below:

    21 Jun: ABC: Get in on the ground floor: How apartments can join the solar power boom
    The Conversation By Bjorn Sturmberg, Macquarie University
    (Bjorn Sturmberg is Associate Lecturer in Physics at Macquarie University)

    ***Sturmberg never mentions his own involvement in Stucco, even tho the pic shows him holding one of the batteries:

    21 Jun: The Conversation: Get in on the ground floor: how apartments can join the solar boom
    by Bjorn Sturmberg, Associate Lecturer in Physics, Macquarie University
    Disclosure statement: Bjorn Sturmberg is a founding director of SunTenants Pty Ltd and Kairos Power Pty Ltd. SunTenants is a social enterprise bringing the solar revolution to Australia’s rentals (single occupancy, ie non-apartments) and was the basis on which Bjorn was awarded a 2017 Myer Innovation Fellowship. Kairos Power is a boutique engineering and research consultancy specialising in hybrid microgrids and energy markets.

    In the face of these challenges, Stucco, a small co-operative housing block in Sydney, embarked on a mission to take back the power.
    Hopefully their experiences can serve as a guide to how other apartment-dwellers can more readily go solar…

    Stucco’s bespoke solution
    ***PHOTO CAPTION: Stucco members celebrating signing the installation contract with Solaray

    In the absence of such a solution, Stucco made a unique agreement with the regulator: the co-op committed to cover fully the costs of installing a grid meter for any unit whose occupant wishes to exit the embedded network in the future…
    Things changed in late 2015 when the co-op was awarded an Innovation Grant from the City of Sydney with a view to becoming the first apartment block in Australia to be equipped with solar and batteries…
    http://theconversation.com/get-in-on-the-ground-floor-how-apartments-can-join-the-solar-boom-79172

    LinkedIn: Bjorn Sturmberg, Founder at SunTenants; Myer Innovation Fellow 2017; Co-founder at Kairos Power
    Previous: Macquarie University, Stucco Cooperative, University of Sydney
    In 2017 I was awarded a Myer Innovation Fellowship to support my development of the social enterprise SunTenants, which is unlocking the huge potential of solar power on Australia’s millions of rental properties…
    Kairos Power is a boutique engineering and research consultancy specialising in sustainable energy systems…
    We have strong relationships with industry, funding agencies and regulators: we’ve managed the procurement of multi-million dollar projects, secured project funding from ARENA and provided solicited feedback to the AEMC…

    Jan 2016: OneStepOffTheGrid: Newtown student housing cooperative (Stucco) 1st to use solar and battery storage
    Lord Mayor Clover Moore said that investing in innovative projects that use solar power and battery storage will help these technologies become more mainstream.
    “We want Sydneysiders to be involved in shaping our city’s future. Offering grants like this allows us to work with enthusiastic members of our community to speed up cuts to carbon pollution”…

    ***In another development, the City of Sydney is providing grant funding to WWF Australia to develop a guide for local businesses demonstrating how to get involved in group renewable energy purchases
    WWF’s Monica Richter said WWF had a formed a renewable energy buyer’s forum for City businesses with an interest in renewable energy, but unable to install on their own site.
    “There are many good reasons for companies to move towards a clean energy future. These include having better control over electricity consumption, particularly as electricity costs are likely to rise in the future. It’s also about being part of a movement towards a 100 per cent renewable energy future.”
    https://onestepoffthegrid.com.au/newtown-housing-cooperative-to-be-first-to-use-solar-and-battery-storage/

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    pat

    VIDEO: 2min56secs: 17 Aug: Fox News: ‘Resign!’: Al Gore Suggests Trump Should Step Aside
    Former Vice President Al Gore (D) was asked what advice he had for President Trump.
    The former Tennessee senator had only one word for the New York Republican: “Resign.”
    Gore said Americans must take a look at the “climate crisis and how we can solve it.”
    “Global warming is by far and away the most serious crisis we face,” he said.

    Gore said there are 100 million tons of man-made pollution released into the atmosphere daily.
    He said that the youth must get involved in combating climate change like the previous generation did during the Civil Rights Act debate.
    Watch more from his interview with LAD Bible above.
    http://insider.foxnews.com/2017/08/17/al-gore-tells-donald-trump-resign-global-warming-climate-change

    despite all my internet searching, I have never come across LAD Bible until now, but BBC was happy to promo it in 2015:

    2015: BBC: Esther Webber: How did the Lad Bible become so successful?
    If you use Facebook, the chances are that you have seen the material – videos of Rambo-themed stag parties, mobile discos paraded through supermarket aisles, or a man changing a nappy wearing a gas mask.
    They are hosted on a website called the Lad Bible and are being shared in their thousands by its 17 million followers, across Facebook, Twitter and Reddit…
    Web analytics site Alexa reports Lad Bible is the 12th most popular website in the UK, above more established resources such as LinkedIn, PayPal and the Guardian…

    BuzzFeed reported it made more than £1m a year from advertising.
    The range of groups advertising on the site – from PlayStation to Oxfam – is testament to its pulling power…
    http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-31126002

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    pat

    14 Aug: Guardian: If you care about identity politics your priority has to be saving the planet
    by Matthew Todd
    You expect to find climate change denial on the right. But from the left too, there is a strange silence about the single most pressing issue facing humanity
    But mention the climate crisis, something that is smashing temperature records, raising sea levels, driving diseases into places they’ve not been before, and which may lead, as Professor Stephen Hawking suggests, to a need for the human race to flee the planet, and there’s radio silence. You can almost see the digital tumbleweed.

    Nearly 30 years after Nasa’s James Hansen testified before a US Senate committee that human activity was warming the planet and must be stopped, it seems the issue does not stir the general population. Partly it’s because of the tens of corporate millions spent by the biggest polluters to create doubt that stalls legislation. That lobbying has worked. Trump said he believes the Chinese made it up, perfectly playing to the right’s paranoia, even as the sand their heads are buried in is getting so hot it would cook an ostrich egg.

    But what is surprising is that the left are not more fired up about the climate crisis. In the UK, commentators such as Katie Hopkins imply that the only people who care are hysterical lefty shills. Of course lots of people, on the left and right do care, more than ever. After all, this is an issue of science and survival and we all have the same to lose. But in my experience, many on the left who should care more about climate change just don’t…

    We can start to change that by watching Al Gore’s new film An Inconvenient Sequel this weekend…READ ALL
    https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2017/aug/14/identity-politics-left-priority-saving-planet-climate-change-denial

    13 Aug: Guardian: Radical millennials are a climate force to be reckoned with
    by Geoff Dembicki
    The window for hope is closing rapidly for the planet. But young activists are demonstrating their power at the ballot box to push for a different future
    Geoff Dembicki is the author of Are We Screwed? How a New Generation is Fighting to Survive Climate Change
    If progressives can’t take back control of the White House and Congress from climate change deniers in the next three years, it’s conceivable that humankind could be screwed. But evidence is mounting that a new political force is up to the task. It has millions of potential supporters across the US, the UK and Canada. It’s openly critical of capitalism…
    https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2017/aug/13/radical-millennials-will-take-back

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    TdeF

    Hazelwood sold power at 4c kw/hr wholesale and was forced to close because they could not make a profit.
    In South Australia customers pay 47c kw/hr.

    That is a markup of x12.
    In the middle is the RET, RET markup, Opportunism, greed and a thrashing like feeding sharks. Politicians hide behind the mess they have created, but it is clear. Governments have done this. Queensland is even making a killing in selling electricity. Billions are going overseas. All because we are saving the planet? No, that is just the excuse.

    At the core of this is the dishonest and morally and should be legally wrong RET, being forced to pay strangers for the right to buy our own electricity from our own coal on our own powerlines and from our own generators. As long as no one can call it a Carbon Tax when it is just beyond logic. For all that we do not get more electricity, just the approved flavour.

    Now in the Australian there is the story that thanks to sea ice melting the Phytoplankton are releasing sulphides which are producing cooling and this is unknown to the IPCC. So warming is producing melting is producing sulphides which are producing cooling? Will this insanity ever end? Get rid of the IPCC and sell the ABC/SBS, CSIRO, BOM. Disrupt the useless lot.

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    Dennis

    For many years Australians have worried about the apparent self interest many or most of our politicians, notably our governments, have displayed. Social engineering, implementation of the unelected UN organisation’s agendas (e.g. Agenda 21/30) without consulting us, gifting our tax and borrowed monies to foreign countries and United Nations and related causes, paying themselves way above public sector taxpayer’s salaries/wages and benefits and generally behaving as if they are our masters and not our public servants elected to represent their constituents and oversee government affairs.

    Now their is a constitutional crisis developing as more dual citizenship holders are revealed or admit to being dual citizens contrary to the Australian Constitution requirements for candidates for parliament. And to be fair, noting that some were unaware of their automatic eligibility based on foreign nation laws who are Australian born and raised.

    The Federal Parliament must be prorogued (suspended) forthwith and placed in caretaker mode meaning no changes to laws etc.

    Until the Australian Federal Police investigate and report on the legal status of every elected member.

    And including retired members who of course were involved in government and in voting for laws etc.

    Just maybe many of the laws in recent past decades at least were illegally passed?

    And the squandering of our monies done illegally by MPs not legally elected?

    In my opinion there is a constitutional crisis of greater magnitude than the denial of supply situation that engulfed the Whitlam Labor government.

    And, interestingly, our nation has been in decline ever since in so many ways, social engineering one major concern.

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    Geoff Sherrington

    Complicated is apt to describe Australian electricity pricing.
    You see, there is a big component that might be called “intangibles”. These generally relate back to the imposition of ideology. They are hard to attribute because paths are often well covered.
    We know these intangibles exist from a simple test.
    Your water bill is going up in much the same way as your power bill. They have in common gross interference by governments in the principles of the free market.
    Also, IPA recently noted that the 20% p.a. increase of goods and services with large government involvement is much more than the 5% p.a. rate where government intervention is minimal.
    Where are our star economic analysts, the ones who used to make headlines? They seem to be replaced by obscure ideologues weak in economics but paid by governments to be spokesmen.
    Come on Janet A and Judith S. Start writing more forcefully and get the guys motivated. There is ample material. Geoff

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      Dennis

      Similar to “sustainability” based on UN Agenda 21/30 and other international objectives imposed via local government with no truthful explanation to ratepayers/voters who are mostly blissfully unaware of what is taking place.

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    David Maddison

    The beauty of the free market is that you don’t have to understand how it works, it just does.

    In Australia the regulations with regard to electricity prices are too complicated to full comprehend all the damage they do but there are a few obvious major contributors such as the RET.

    The best thing is to simply deregulate the entire electricity market, including forced purchases of “Green” bird killing energy and things will rapidly sort themselves out.

    Investors in Big Green should have nothing to worry about because they keep telling us how much cheaper it is than coal so they should do well.

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    I have a comment at 1.2.1.1 in moderation, so I hope mentioning it here can have attention drawn to it. No idea why it’s in moderation.

    Tony.

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      Dennis

      Apparently it’s something you had for breakfast.

      [so I was informed]

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      That d@mned Greek yoghurt instead of milk.

      Tony.

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      ROM

      Reguarly happens to me, Tony.

      The mods are voluntary and have their own lives to live as does Jo.
      And I know full well that maybe only 20 minutes or so after somebody has hopefully read any of my posts, they will be hard put to remember much about that post given the immense flow of information that is passed on through each of Jo’s and many other blog site posts from commenters.

      So I just resign myself to the inevitable, sometimes a post of mine will end up in moderation for quite some time.

      It hurts a bit when a post I have spent an hour or soresearching and trying to put together [ Yeh! I know! spelling mistakes and all due to insufficient and too fast to post before checking for the tenth time. ] but in reality, does it really matter to anybody but myself.

      Having posted that, a few commenters stand out for the information they continually pass on and Tony is one of those commenters.

      Thanks Tony

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    pat

    since the format change at Bolt’s blog, I can barely open his page, but Newman’s Australian piece is behind a paywall, so you might need to read the excerpts here:

    18 Aug: Herald Sun: Andrew Bolt: WHY SUBSIDISE MAD GREEN SOUTH AUSTRALIANS?
    Maurice Newman is right. Why must richer states subisidise poorer ones through the GST collection when some, like South Australia, are making themselves poorer through insane green ideology? Why are we subsidising stupidity?
    LINK (to The Australian, behind paywall)…
    READ ON
    http://www.heraldsun.com.au/blogs/andrew-bolt/why-subsidise-mad-green-south-australians/news-story/f9a4d4560f20017e0828ff7a5bbe026d

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    Mark M

    Fresh doubts over BoM records after thermometer read at wrong end

    Hobby farmer Ken Seton provided evidence that temperature recordings of -10C on May 10 and -8C on May 16 had not been carried past the daily temperature recordings on to the official monthly record.
    As a result, the lowest monthly temperature reading for May at Taralga stands at -4.8C. Minus 10C would have been a ­record low for Taralga.

    via twitter: https://twitter.com/tan123/status/898321446329434112

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    Bruce

    Thank you Jo, our Globalist politicians, of left and right, are determined, that we, their bosses, must punish ourselves, because they know better !?!

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    Robert Rosicka

    Thank you Jo for this thread , I’ve just realised how much my retailer is ripping me off but even worse is the graph showing my greenhouse gas emissions .
    My electricity comes from snowy hydro or my roof top solar so they’ve even done a con job with that info .

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    pat

    17 Aug: MyNewsLA: Ken Stone: Weather Channel founder denies climate change, ‘so put me to death’
    John Coleman says Al Gore started it — the “global warming silliness.” But now the retired weatherman and founder of The Weather Channel is “horrified” to see San Diego Mayor Kevin Faulconer channeling the ex-veep with a Climate Action Plan. It “just turns my stomach.”
    “I think he saw money and power, and I don’t know what else he thought of it,” Coleman says of the Republican mayor. “I can’t believe he really [felt he] was going to save the city from some terrible fate.”

    Coleman, 82, laughs during a lively phone chat from his home near Las Vegas.
    “San Diego’s not going to go underwater. Period,” he says. “Not in my lifetime or yours or our kids’ lifetime. When the Earth ends in 4 1/2 billion years, it probably still won’t have flooded.”

    He also mocks “the damn tsunami warning route signs that they put up all over the city,” which he calls “about as silly as anything I’ve ever saw in my life. The chance of a significant tsunami hitting Southern California is about as great as a flying saucer landing tonight at Lindbergh Field. It’s just sheer nonsense.”…
    http://mynewsla.com/hollywood/2017/08/17/weather-channel-founder-denies-climate-change-so-put-me-to-death/

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    Geoff Sherrington

    Readers,
    What do you think of a proposal for electricity suppliers to allow customers a choice of two price schemes one for coal energy and one for coal+renewables?
    (Coal of course means supply from fossil fuel and hydro like we grew up with. Coal+renewable of course means what is offered today and planned for tomorrow.)
    This way, those keen for renewables can wear their checkbooks on their sleeves.
    Should we promote this two-tier pricing proposal?
    Geoff

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    Roy Hogue

    If it’s any comfort to anyone, if the present trend continues the U.S. will not stay at the bottom of that graph.

    California is leading the pack but the rest will follow unless Trump can drain that swamp in every state capitol.

    I’m beginning to realize it’s not the swamp itself that needs attention but the fish and other things living in it. There are too many fish with fins only on their left side and they keep on truckin along with their own agenda. Trump can’t replace them fast enough, in fact can’t directly replace career civil servants and it’s killing him in the press.

    I read yesterday that there are now legal grounds for his impeachment, never mind that impeachment is a political matter, not legal. If they so wish, the House and Senate can remove a president for no reason at all, they only need to trump up some charge and vote accordingly and that’s the end of the current president. The Supreme Court has no authority under the Constitution to intervene in that process.

    That’s how easy it would be if the required majority in both houses can be found — 50%+1 in the House and 2/3 in the Senate.

    No government works except dictatorship if more and more people are willing to become dishonest. And that’s what’s happening.

    Unfortunately dictatorship doesn’t “work” either. But it’s damned hard to throw off once you have it.

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    clipe

    BACKGROUND: As a whole the EU uses about 50% thermal, 25% nuclear, 12% hydro, 10% wind, and 4% “others”. The breakdown by generation source is graphed (awkwardly) here.

    http://ec.europa.eu/eurostat/statistics-explained/index.php/File:EU-28_Electricity_production_by_source,_2016_(in_%25)-F2.png

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    Henning Nielsen

    Well the exception is Norway, almost at the bottom of the price list, with 100% renewable electricty production, from hydro.

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    Rod Stuart

    The land of drought and flooding rains is devouring itself from the inside out.

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    UPDATE: Seems the NZ example potentially removing all Australians from eligibilty to run for the Australian Parliament is not likely at all.
    From Tim Andrews

    The High Court dealt with this in Sykes v Cleary and in fact in his concurrent judgement Barwick called it “absurd” :

    “To take an extreme example, if a foreign power were mischievously to confer its nationality on members of the Parliament so as to disqualify them all, it would be absurd to recognize the foreign law conferring foreign nationality. “

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      Roy Hogue

      Thank you Jo. May I use your argument the next time the United States wants to enter into an agreement that violates the U.S. Constitution, that same constitution that makes all treaties become U.S. law?

      Sounds like the same kind of situation.

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    [...] Costs. One of the things that come out of unthinking adoption of renewable energy is spiking electricity costs.  The unreliability and environmental unfriendliness of wind and solar are extra added attractions.  Last week, jo Nova ran a story noting residents of South Australia paid the highest power prices in the world at 47.13 cents / kWh.  They were closely followed by Denmark, Germany and Italy at 44.78, 43.29, and 40.30 cents / kWh.  New South Wales comes in at 39.10 cents; Queensland at 35.69; and Victoria at 34.66 cents /kWh.  This is quite a change from the late 1990s when Oz had the lowest retail electric prices worldwide along with the US and Canada.  So what happened in Oz?  It wasn’t just the renewables, which are only 10% of the total generation.  Looks like most of the problem is bureaucratic in nature, not unlike what California did decades ago when it decontrolled one side of the electrical generation marketplace while leaving the other side well-regulated and controlled, and then wondered why the entire house of cards collapsed.  In Oz, there has been a proliferation of regulatory agencies.  These competing regulators have destroyed what used to be a market with a reliable supply with an intermittent demand.  Today, both sides are highly volatile.  The forced introduction of intermittent renewables has made the system more complex and unreliable.  Appears the Oz has become a regulated marketplace where the producers and regulators are hiding behind unnecessary complexity.  http://joannenova.com.au/2017/08/australia-denmark-germany-vie-to-win-highest-global-electricity-cos… [...]

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