JoNova

A science presenter, writer, speaker & former TV host; author of The Skeptic's Handbook (over 200,000 copies distributed & available in 15 languages).


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Bill Nye says skeptics will die off. Instead young gullibles grow up to be old skeptics

Poor Bill Nye -he’s thinks somehow most people are as religious about climate change as he is, and will keep their naively unscientific beliefs about our ability to control the climate with power stations, wind mills and light bulbs, into their old age. Instead, the reality is Bill’s biggest nightmare, skeptics are not dying out at all — there is a never ending source of skeptics, as young gullible believers grow up to be old and wise.

Here’s his Christmas fantasy:

LA Times, Pat Morrison  Bill Nye on the terrifying ascendancy of American ‘dingbatitude’

It just sounds like people are scared. It just sounds like people are afraid. And the people who are afraid in general — with due respect, and I am now one of them — are older. Climate change deniers, by way of example, are older. It’s generational. So we’re just going to have to wait for those people to “age out,” as they say. “Age out” is a euphemism for “die.” But it’ll happen, I guarantee you — that’ll happen.   — Bill Nye

Here’s that data. For starters, we know that Republican voters are older than Democrat voters. So consider what happened to “people identifying as “environmentalists”. If people carried their beliefs with them as they grew older, we would see the term appearing increasingly among Republican voters — converging towards the Democrats. Instead, over the last twenty five years, “environmentalist” became a dirty word for lots of people, but especially for Republican voters.

...

 

In terms of worries about Global Warming, spot the Republican transformation over the last 16 years as half a generation passed. Exactly.

The red line has flat-lined.

The rise in belief as the “hottest ever El Nino year” hit the headlines came in Democrat and Independent voting groups, not in Republican voters who remain unmoved by the sensationalist repeats of yet more “records”. Older voters are more likely to recognize that it’s all been done before.

Except Bill Nye, that is.

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203 comments to Bill Nye says skeptics will die off. Instead young gullibles grow up to be old skeptics

  • #
    Kevin Lohse

    Do I think that we should care for the environment? Yes. Do I think that AGW is a major forcing of the Global climate? On the evidence available, No.

    401

    • #
      Sceptical Sam

      as they say. “Age out” is a euphemism for “die.” But it’ll happen, I guarantee you

      The only forecast of the warmists that will come to pass. Eva!

      In the long run we’re all dead.

      That’s a certainty. And taxes.

      180

      • #
        Annie

        Life is a disease with a 100% mortality rate! Even all the elitists amd alarmists cannot avoid it. What will become of all their ill-gotten financial/status and property gains then?

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        • #
          Manfred

          Precisely, Annie. I have frequently referred to this obvious fact. It deeply rankles the risk averse, precautionary principle obsessed groups – epidemiologists and Greens, the EU and the UN – birth is causally associated with a 100% risk of death. Perversely, it should amuse the Malthusians, and entertain the believers in UNFCCC defined “climate change”, predicated on the presence of humanity and conversely, eradicated by the expunging of humanity.

          On the other hand, I prefer to think of the gift of life as a blessing and an opportunity to further knowledge, prosperity, progress and above all, the self-actualisation of humanity as it strives to reach beyond the stars.

          182

        • #
          ЯΞ√ΩLUT↑☼N

          Climate Change™®© will end when those of Bill’s ilk die out – hopefully sooner.

          262

        • #
          doubtingdave

          Annie, shame on you , that is such a horrible philosophy , preach your crap to baby Charlie , an innocent child

          01

          • #
            Annie

            Oh Dave…you have really misunderstood me!

            30

          • #
            doubtingdave

            I am the father of 3 children , I am a none believer , I know I will live on after my death because I have past my blood and DNA on to the next generation , not that i’ll be aware of it

            00

            • #
              doubtingdave

              I’m sorry Annie , but that comment of yours upset me because you , in my opinion , was wishing ill against those that don’t share your faith or opinion

              11

              • #
                Annie

                Not so Dave. I am the mother of four children. I do not wish ill on anyone; just talking of the natural consequences of life as lived. Enough of that.

                30

              • #
                ЯΞ√ΩLUT↑☼N

                Agreed Dave. Conception is both a life and death sentence. There’s no way to avoid the latter, although several including Walt Disney, are trying very hard.

                30

              • #
                Annie

                I rather thought I said that originally R (sorry…haven’t discovered backwards yet).

                20

              • #

                ЯΞ√ΩLUT↑☼N,

                that story about Walt Disney being cryogenically frozen is an urban legend.

                He was a three to four pack a day smoker of mostly unfiltered Lucky Strikes, and died of Lung Cancer in 1966.

                Contrary to that urban legend, his body was cremated two days after his passing, and his family have stated that he never even had a wish to be frozen.

                Tony.

                Source

                20

    • #
      Glen Michel

      Do I care for the environment? According to the “believers” we don’t. I have truly lost count of the times that “we” want to destroy the planet because we’re rational. Using Hydrocarbons/ fossil fuels and so on. How can you say you care! We have a big hump to overcome my friends.We know where the problems of disinformation lie,but what is to be done?

      150

      • #
        turnedoutnice

        Sceptics argue rationally.

        130

        • #
          Craig Thomas

          …and yet their “evidence” seems to live on blogs rather than in the scientific literature. I wonder why that is….

          111

          • #
            peter

            Crag, 285 peer-reviewed papers contrary to AGW theory were published in the first 6 months of this year. Last year around 500 such papers were published. It’s out there but just doesn’t get MSM coverage. It’s good to see you come onto this site to be educated though Crag.

            70

          • #
            Greg Cavanagh

            Craig, you’ve been here long enough to know that is not true.
            Either that or you don’t bother to read the threads you bomb.

            50

          • #
            James Bradley

            You mean SkepticalScience, Craig…

            40

          • #
            Mickey Reno

            Well, a free-wheeling open discussion occurs on some blogs, but not on SkepticalScience.com, because the SS Kidz carefully craft a single-minded, unscientific, and (in their minds) unassailable editorial position. And then a few if them like Cook and Lewandowsky pretend to do science that is really poorly disguised political advocacy for that editorial position. Then the pal review process kicks in, and like minded editors and reviewers approve these tendentious train-wrecks of science, and all of a sudden, you have “consensus science” on the record, in true post normal science style. All that’s needed then is a credulous, gullible, leftist media (DONE!) and a bigger club to whack those who say, now just wait one damn minute, here….

            30

    • #
      Albert

      NEWS for Bill Nye, mortality rate remains constant at 100% whatever our beliefs

      30

  • #
    Dennis

    Viv Forbes has written …

    Finkel Fails Carbon Sense
    Dr Finkel, grandly titled as “Australia’s Chief Scientist”, was paid by taxpayers to produce: “A Review into the Future Security of the National Electricity Market”. This report has been studied and is rated “FAIL”. It Fails in Science, It Fails Electricity Consumers, It Fails Australia. But Green Energy Promotors are Delighted.
    Australian Engineer, Bob Brock, puts it clearly: “the solution to Australia’s growing energy crisis is blindingly simple:
    1. Defer until 2030 the implementation of the UN Climate Agreement.
    2. Cancel all Renewable Emissions Targets (RETs) and Clean Energy Targets (CETs).
    3. Cancel all Federal subsidies for Renewable Energy.
    4. Advocate 99.98% availability targets for all energy suppliers to ensure reliability of supply.
    5. Advocate building only traditional coal-fired power stations in the future for base load.
    6. Do not support the use of gas as a base-load fuel as it is more expensive than coal.
    7. Do not advocate High Efficiency Low Emission (HELE) power stations unless the economics justify their more expensive construction costs. The extra CO2 that conventional coal-fired power stations emit is neither dirty nor a pollutant – despite advice from the Green Coalition which dominates the Labor, Liberal and Green Parties.
    8. If, in the face of scientific evidence, you still want to believe that CO2 is a problem, commit to a concurrent long term plan for developing a Nuclear Industry. If these policies were implemented, we would not need expensive interconnecting transmission lines, or the costly, parasitic Energy Marketing Operator (States would be responsible), or PM Turnbull’s energy recycling scheme, Snowy Mk 2.0.”
    Even Visiting Americans can see the foolish mess Australian politicians have created: https://townhall.com/columnists/pauldriessen/2017/07/15/insanity-and-hypocrisy-down-under-n2355240

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    • #

      Apropos above from Dennis some good news * from
      Trump Land that the medja won’t want to get out.
      Trump kills 16 regulations for every new one.
      ‘The administration says that its “MAGAnomics’ goal of
      3% growth is built on part on cutting costly regulations
      and freeing the hand of businesses to do more and hire more.’

      Are u listening, Turnbull, Weatherill, Andrews et Al?

      http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/trump-kills-16-regulations-for-every-new-one-crushing-2-for-1-goal/article/2629177

      * Good news for those of us on Nye’s sceptic death watch.
      Say, ‘Hail Trump. We who are about ter die salute you.’ )

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    • #
      Leonard Lane

      Dennis, I like your list, thanks.
      I feel one thing is missing. Some sort of bar or provision that stop the Greens/leftists from doing the climate change nonsense all over again each time they get back in office.
      I don’t know how to do this in a democratic way. But their must be a way compatible with the peoples’ will and the national security/survival of Australia.

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    • #
      Craig Thomas

      Deeply flawed due to its key assumption that CO2 emissions do not represent an externalised cost. In the real world, this externalised cost is as obvious a fact as is gravity.

      08

      • #
        David A

        Yes, the cost benefit analysis of CO2 is crystal clear. Every crop on this planet has, due to the aerial increase of CO2 from SAME amount of land with the SAME amount of water. The benefits are real and proved in thousands of experiments, (both lab and field) and published in hundreds of papers. The harms are ALL failing to manifest. ZERO increase in GLOBAL drought, floods, hurricanes, etc… and ZERO acceleration in sea level rise per analysis of global tide gauges, and no change in artic sea ice since 2007.

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        • #
          David A

          Sorry Craig, part of my post disappeared, corrected below…

          Yes, the cost benefit analysis of CO2 is crystal clear. Every crop on this planet now produces 15% to 20% more food, due to the aerial increase of CO2 from 280 PPM to 400 PPM, and this production requires the SAME amount of land with the SAME amount of water. (No increase in land or water required) The benefits are real and proved in thousands of experiments, (both lab and field) and published in hundreds of papers. The harms are ALL failing to manifest. ZERO increase in GLOBAL drought, floods, hurricanes, etc… and ZERO acceleration in sea level rise per analysis of global tide gauges, and no change in artic sea ice since 2007.

          30

      • #
        el gordo

        ‘Deeply flawed due to its key assumption that CO2 emissions do not represent an externalised cost.’

        You mean industrial CO2 emissions, we can’t do much about the large emissions from the warming oceans.

        30

    • #
      Konrad

      I agree with most of that except points 5 & 7.

      1600 HELE supercritical coal plants are being built in 62 nations. This is the current available design. As we would be sourcing most main components from overseas, realistically we would have to go with current designs.

      Further, HELE supercritical burns far less coal for the same power produced. While Australia has abundant coal available as we are an exporter, burning less means more for future export and our own future use.

      30

  • #
    David Maddison

    The evidence seems to suggest that the more left wing you are the more uneducated and stupid you are contrary to Leftist/Warmist claims that the most educated and pro-science of us are stupid according to them. They are the dumb ones. And they are also directly responsible for removing education in critical thought from educational curricular throughout the Western World over the last forty or fifty years.

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    • #
      Manfred

      Yep. Dumb as ditch water. Or put another way, having an IQ inversely proportional to the number in the Kollectiv.
      The Leftist desire for regulation is only surpassed by their infinite need for it.

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      • #
        Leonard Lane

        Manfred, sometimes the best way to present truth is with a bit of humor. This is great:
        “The Leftist desire for regulation is only surpassed by their infinite need for it.”
        I have often thought if somehow society could make Marxism, sociology, gender studies, diversity faculty, anti-democratic classes, etc. uncool and repugnant and science, logic, ethics, physics, chemistry, engineering, etc. very “in vogue” and cool, this would help.
        Problem is that many in the Marxist, etc. fields are not intelligent enough for science and engineering. Perhaps their is a way to re-brand and extol the virtues of “supporters of science and environment and humanity ” careers and positions doing the work of cleaning labs and universities, food service, routine field and lab work, etc. workers,and other vital jobs. With education, training, and experience,(proficiency exams), etc. their would a place for their passions in productive areas. Because the Green/leftists are very susceptible to glitzy propaganda and glamorous & cool promoters and the hive-mind instinct; perhaps this might work.

        70

        • #
          Greg Cavanagh

          It’s a nice wish Leonard, but it comes down to “sums are hard”.

          Your list of science classes all resolve to precision. The answer to the question is a one number answer. The Left prefer the feel-good studies where “the answer is whatever you feel it is”.

          I’m afraid this is evidence of two very different brain wirings. One can never become the other.

          60

          • #
            David Maddison

            There are indeed brain differences between commies and conservatives.

            https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Biology_and_political_orientation

            30

            • #
              • #
                Greg Cavanagh

                You didn’t read David’s link, but it says pretty much the same thing.

                On the other hand, more ‘liberal’ students tended to have a larger volume of grey matter in the anterior cingulate cortex.

                It is consistent with previous research suggesting that individuals with a larger ACC have a higher capacity to tolerate uncertainty and conflicts, allowing them to accept more liberal views

                Put in simple terms:
                Conservatives like assurance that things are correct before proceeding.
                Liberals are more at ease with uncertainty and conflict, they just roll with it.

                Now; where you sniping?

                50

              • #
                James Bradley

                And you haven’t managed to best any here – that certainly makes you the exception to the rule then, Craig.

                40

              • #
                Craig Thomas

                So making Rosa Parks sit at the back of the bus was “correct”, was it?

                Sometimes, things need to change. The lower-IQ, conservative mind-set has been demonstrated to be not up to the task of dealing with change.

                18

              • #
                David A

                Well Craig, numerous studies show climate skeptics know far more about the actual science of climate then CAGW proponents. ( Your posts here as well as the responses easily affirm this) Also you present a logical fallacy, equating conservative views with racial prejudice, much like the “have you stopped cheating on your wife” question, you assume facts not in evidence. (History in fact contradicts your incorrect assertion)

                [Snip sadly 18c / moderation load etc sorry - Jo]

                Craig, you do know that there is peer reviewed literature showing that most peer reviewed papers are wrong?

                50

              • #
                The Deplorable Vlad the Impaler

                History lesson for you, Mr. Thomas:

                The ‘segregation’ laws, and ‘Jim Crow’ laws of the “South” (nee Confederacy) were all promulgated by the DEMOCRAT (United States) Party. Maybe you’ve heard of Governor George Wallace, Democrat, who declared, “Segregation now, segregation forever” on the steps of the Capitol in his State. [Yes, I know; after the assassination attempt, he had a change of heart, but I'm talking the historical basis of racism and "Rosa Parks" in response you your accusation]

                The 1964 Civil Rights (and voting rights) act(s) were supported by U.S. Republicans, and opposed by U.S. Democrats, ostensibly the party of the ‘little guy’, the ‘underprivileged’, of ‘liberalism’ and ‘fairness’ and ‘equality’. How in God’s name they’ve managed to brainwash everyone into forgetting their past, is beyond me.

                And I’ll thank you in advance for not disputing my account: it is first hand. I witnessed these events personally, spatially and temporally; you didn’t.

                Please do not tag “Conservatism” with racism. I have yet to meet a conservative racist, and I live in the most conservative state in the U. S. (Wyoming: we voted 70% for Trump, since he declared he would end the war on coal, and the war on the middle class, waged [all too successfully] by the Democrats upon us ‘little guys’; we are seeing a turnaround in our economic conditions, which were going the wrong way under the eight years of Obama).

                Regards to you and yours,

                Vlad (The Mostest Deplorablest Impalerest)

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              • #
        • #
          Manfred

          LL, thank you for your comment.
          I realise generalisations are fatuous but for brevity let me clumsily contend, and I make no claim of originality, that the modern Leftist appears to have inverted the modus operandi of René Descartes, in the rational exercise of “radical doubt.”

          I think, therefore I am,” (cogito ergo sum) “If I’m doubting, I’m thinking; if I’m thinking, I am.”

          The Left no longer “think.” Instead they appear to express their World view,

          I feel, therefore I am (sentio ergo sum).

          The consequences appear devastating to prosperity, health and progress. The ‘precautionary principle’ is little more than the expression of a ‘feeling based World view’. This is the stuff that leads to ‘policy-based evidence’. Such a superstitious society, happily pursues climatism and Globocult worship.

          The Left suspended ‘thinking’ a long time ago. Cultural Marxism would suggest ‘thinking’ is an exploitative bourgeoise pursuit. It should be nihilistically replaced by ‘feeling’. That way, we can all feel our identities, equally miserable, deprived, exploited, victimised, manipulated and ignorant. Such may be the justification of a NWO.

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    • #
      Kevin Lohse

      Exactly. the Left have intentionally and with malice conflated education with indoctrination.

      270

    • #
      el gordo

      ‘They are the dumb ones.’

      Its fair to say the education system has been corrupted in the name of a perceived noble cause. The propaganda has been intense, concentrating on the maternal instinct.

      People from all walks of life have been brainwashed, its a crime against humanity, but apart from ugly landscapes and financial resources being squandered, the matter can be corrected.

      The young people have been traumatised, being told they will involuntarily combust because of a few extra CO2 molecules, but surely in a real war zone conditions are harsher. We are talking first world problems which can be rectified once global cooling begins.

      This from Gallup, its what I call a healthy democracy.

      ‘Two-thirds (66%) of Democrats say they worry about global warming a great deal, compared with 18% of Republicans.’

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      • #
        OriginalSteve

        This is precisicely the reason there needs to be a Climate Nuremberg trail, to ensure all miscreants who orchestrated this crime, be brought to justice…..

        No exceptions…..justice will be done. Count on it.

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        • #
          el gordo

          Its a waste of time, they will have the Nuremberg Defence (superior orders) and the Precautionary Principle. Mass shame and satirical ridicule of the Klimatariat, politicians and MSM, is the best we can possibly hope for.

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          • #
            Craig Thomas

            er…the Nuremberg Defence didn’t work.

            The “crime” in this context isn’t so much the people making $quillion$ by externalising the costs associated with CO2, it’s the people who are actively and consciously telling lies about science in order to protect those who are making $quillion$.

            16

            • #
              el gordo

              The Nuremberg Defence worked because in a war situation the lower echelons cannot be blamed.

              I agree its the Klimatariat who are actively telling lies, supported by the propaganda wings of the pseudo Marxist hegemony.

              30

      • #
        The Deplorable Vlad the Impaler

        True story:

        I was engaged in a mostly pleasant conversation with a twenty-something young lady. Things were calm, until she said (and I do not recall why it even came up), “And we’re destroying the planet.”

        For the remainder of this, “YL:” will be this young lady, and “TDVTI:” will be me:

        TDVTI: Do you have a cell phone?

        YL: Yes, of course I do [sidebar: TDVTI does not now, nor never has, and never will own one; personal choice]

        TDVTI: Where did it come from?

        YL: (deer in the headlights expression on her face)

        TDVTI: Do you use a computer, or the Internet?

        YL: (deer in the headlights)

        TDVTI: What are you wearing? Where did it come from?

        YL: (deer in the headlights)

        TDVTI: Why is this room we’re in warm right now? (This was during Wyoming’s winter)

        YL: (deer in the headlights)

        TDVTI: What makes these lights illuminate, and where did they come from?

        YL: (deer in the headlights)

        TDVTI: I certainly hope you didn’t eat any food this morning that came from a farm, run by a farmer using fossil fuels to grow and harvest his crop, and petrochemicals to make the food grow, and prevent pests and varmints from destroying the crop!

        YL: (deer in the headlights)

        TDVTI: When you are ill, do you see a medical practitioner, or use a hospital, that uses modern diagnostic techniques and equipment (and where does that stuff come from?), or receive a medication, prepared from some petrochemical feedstock?

        YL: (at this point she is attempting to make an exit … )

        TDVTI: Just answer this one question: What are YOU ready to do without, to ‘save the planet’?

        The young lady exits the area; I ran into her a few weeks later, and she would not even make eye contact with me.

        Regards,

        Vlad

        271

        • #
          Craig Thomas

          So you’re a bully as well as a bore.

          010

          • #
            David A

            Craig, why is trying to help a young person understand that many of the things she uses for pleasure and necessities are the result of fossil fuels, before which life was severe brutish and short, being a bully?

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          • #
            The Deplorable Vlad the Impaler

            Love the ad hom; you can’t attack the message, just the messenger! What a hoot!

            Vlad

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    • #
      yarpos

      Note really Dave, we are responsible for letting them

      01

  • #
    Tim Hammond

    So the people who are afraid are the ones who aren’t buying all the scare stories? Do these people ever listen to what they are saying, ever wonder whether they are making sense?

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    • #
      R2Dtoo

      What would happen if we told them they have to drive a “smart” car, live in 200 sq. ft. per person, live on the 22nd floor in a crowded city, go without adequate AC or heat, recharge their cell phones and iPads only once a week, drive at 90kmph instead of 110, eat only plant material, cancel all air travel plans etc? Their environmentalism would disappear overnight. I haven’t seen much willingness of the young people to give up their lifestyle. They identify with groupthink aspirations but don’t think they will apply to them. As diversity and inclusivity have taken over, the necessary social cohesion that holds human societies together has broken down. That is the real threat to human society.

      161

  • #
    William

    Yes, the deniers and skeptics will die off.
    However, by the time the brain dead realize they have been conned, it will be too late. Because the only people with the knowledge to fix the mess created by the true believers are the deniers and skeptics. And they will be dead already.
    So the newly enlightened will be able to sit in the dark, freezing their rear ends off, wondering where their next meal will be coming from. And entertain themselves with the contemplation of the infinite stupidity of humanity.
    But they will be able to warm the cockles of their hearts with the knowledge that they saved the planet.

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    • #
      Manfred

      Something hugely counter intuitive or perhaps an ‘unintended consequence’ may occur with the dying off of the irrational and rational. The newly enlightened will discover that fermentation and tobacco is far cheaper and easier to obtain than State sanctioned and controlled marijuana, and that in the long run their mental acuity improves, sufficiently for them to reinvent the wheel and resume progress.

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      • #
        ЯΞ√ΩLUT↑☼N

        The only invention better than the wheel was the second one.

        82

        • #
          Glen Michel

          The fifth is seen as redundant. Unless you regard the steering wheel.

          40

          • #
            ЯΞ√ΩLUT↑☼N

            LOL.. Agreed, although the usefulness of the steering wheel depends on the attendant.

            10

        • #
          Sceptical Sam

          Hmmm……

          What about the axle?

          30

        • #
          Greg Cavanagh

          Is fire an invention?
          If it is, then fire was the first. And second was probably a bucket for milking the Ox or goat. By then you could boil water so obviously coffee came third.

          20

          • #
            Manfred

            I think ‘fire’ is considered a discovery of use, rather than an invention per se. There’s always been a certain fascination and power in being able to start one. Sitting about with a pail of cold ox milk and a handful of flint-ground coffee beans in a thunder storm waiting for lightening to strike was always considered a conversation killer.

            So much so that 1.5M years ago in the deep Stone Age, the first activist clearly had a sore arse with all the sitting about. He became known among his tribe as ‘the arsonist’.

            20

      • #
        tom0mason

        Manfred,

        “…for them to reinvent the wheel and resume progress.”

        It all depends on whether they can form a representative committee to determine what color the wheel will be, and can come up with a conclusion agreeable to all.

        (See wiki The Hitchhiker’s Guide to the Galaxy and Golgafrinchans’ problems with inventing the wheel)

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        • #
          The Deplorable Vlad the Impaler

          I think you missed something: first, does the wheel “want” to be re-invented, and second, will it have a “safe space” to go to if someone doesn’t like it, or it didn’t want to be re-invented?

          If these critical issues cannot be resolved, then the whole issue is moot.

          Regards,

          Vlad

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          • #
            Bushkid

            What if it doesn’t want to be a wheel, what if it wants to be, say, a hamster instead? What then?

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            • #
              The Deplorable Vlad the Impaler

              Yes, you are right; I hadn’t thought about it possibly being ‘trans-hamstered’. It’s a rather sticky wicket, eh?

              60

    • #
      el gordo

      It won’t get to that, the first signs of a mini ice age and the pseudo Marxists will go to water.

      Greenland has increasing mass balance and presumably more icebergs in the North Atlantic.

      https://notalotofpeopleknowthat.files.wordpress.com/2017/07/accumulatedsmb.png

      50

    • #
      Roy Hogue

      Necessity has been the mother of not only invention but common sense ability to determine correct goals and priorities. I’ve no doubt that civilization can and will rise again. The only question is, how long will it take?

      From what I’ve read humans have been around a lot longer than 10,000 years but the explosion of technological achievement that we now depend on came only near the end of the 19th century. And it’s start was pretty slow for a long time until the space race spurred development of all sorts of things after which the pace became faster. That’s a lot of years in purgatory so you and I will never see the outcome.

      So rejoice, humanity will come back. But it will likely suffer for a long time if the generators we all depend on stop turning.

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      • #
        David-of-Cooyal-in-Oz

        I dunno Roy,
        China’s turbines will still be spinning, and it seems to me they’re pretty keen to expand their civilisation. And they’ll own all our coal mines soon.
        Cheers,
        Dave B

        30

        • #
          Roy Hogue

          Unfortunately the selling of Australia’s coal mines took Australia’s agreement. And I know that any Aussie with any sense wouldn’t have made that decision so I’m just pointing put a fact, not pointing a finger at anyon. Also consider, China still has monumental problems to solve. In the main cities there’s increasing prosperity but the bulk of their rural population still lives in poverty. So I’m wondering just how well they will do if the rest of the world decides to quit manufacturing in China and comes to its senses about their own welfare.

          The turbines can spin but they do no one any good if the country is unemployed.

          And I just don’t know how to read that situation. I’m having enough trouble figuring out if my country will survive Donald Trump.

          30

          • #
            Roy Hogue

            Just an added note: I have a Blu-ray player made by OPPO Consumer Electronics, based in Cupertino California and it’s a superb very capable box. But OPPO Consumer Electronics is wholly owned by a larger OPPO products company in China. I keep wondering if the OPPO consumer products are made here because if they weren’t they would need to be shipped here because there wouldn’t be a market for them in China or for the more cynical reason that they can say it’s made in the USA (it’s a $500 box, I wouldn’t touch the $70 and %80 players I saw at places like costco — tinny junk). It plays any disk in existence when the design was finalized, CD, DVD, Blu-ray, photo CD, DVD, photo or video on flash drive, handles DLNA so I can play photo slide shows and video right from my computer to my TV and it will stream Netflix Vudu, YouTube and some others plus internet radio from Rhapsody, all wirelessly without trouble. I bought it to replace my 1990 Sony X33ES CD player (one step down from their best) that could only play CDs and for which I paid almost exactly $500 in 1990 because one channel started having analog electronics problems. The OPPO lacks some of the features of the Sony for playing CDs but the gain in capability is huge and considering the inflation since 1990, it’s pretty cheap.

            It also has the most comprehensive printed user manual I’ve ever seen, although I would have added some detail because it leaves you to know or look up various terms and formats. But still, it’s excellent.

            I have no idea how much of the design is Chinese or American but the credits for various software components are mostly 3rd party open source, Gnu, etc. but one way or another it tells me that China is coming into its own as the designer of a whole range of things. Their customer support is second to none too, which surprised me greatly. It’s long off warranty now but they’ve still been willing to answer questions.

            China’s huge population still languishing in poverty is going to hurt them or quite a while. But we should never underestimate China. They want their place in this world and will eventually get it. The Chinese are no dumber than anyone else. Unfortunately they think foul means are as good as fair and ar building up their submarine fleet with stolen technology, technology we let them run off with from plain old carelessness or, worse, treason.

            10

      • #
        Rod Stuart

        Individual liberty is something that requires courage and determination.
        There was a day when I raised domestic rabbits for personal consumption.
        In discussing politics I often asked the question “Would you rather be a wild rabbit or a tame rabbit?”
        A tame rabbit is card for from the moment it appears from the womb. It is fed the most nutritious and delicious stuff available. It is not necessary to fear harm from any predators. In return its fate is sealed, as it will some day become rabbit stew. In addition it spends its entire lifetime in a hutch. The wild rabbit, on the other hand must fend for its tucker. It has so many natural enemies that it can be shanghaied at any time day or night. It has the opportunity to live to a ripe old age if it is canny enough. It can run free so long as it can avoid capture.
        Over the spread of humanity, homo sapiens has been individually the wild rabbit and the tame rabbit. Western civilisation appears to to have achieved, at long last, nirvana that allows us all to be wild rabbits. Yet we continue to build hutches and confinements which turn us in to tame rabbits. Which do you prefer, because in the direction we are headed we will all become tame rabbits.

        20

  • #
    Yonniestone

    Bill Nye doesn’t have a clue about anything let alone how demographics change in the real world, it fascinates me this guy was a mechanical engineer for Boeing and credited with an invention yet decided to throw the scientific basics under the bus to become just another warmist zealot, as Davidsays @ #3 the more left you go the less control over your independent reasoning you have.

    I’ll gladly die an old conservative denier rather than an old imbecilic coward.

    352

    • #
      Craig Thomas

      On the other hand, it could be that Bill Nye – a provably smart guy with a track record of doing smart things – is correct and it is *you* that is wrong.

      Are you able to conceive of such a thing? What’s your track record like?

      011

      • #
        AndyG55

        “a provably smart guy ”

        roflmao!!

        Who makes his living as a children’s entertainer.

        Just down your alley, CT..

        You still have that science crush on him from all those year watching his low-level science babble.

        60

      • #
        James Bradley

        Yes, Craig,

        Really “a provably smart guy”… https://youtu.be/bzm6vytgUfs

        30

      • #
        Yonniestone

        My track record?, I’ve designed, made and erected structures that people live or work in, AFAIK none of them have collapsed on anyone Craig.

        If I was a smart guy like Bill Nye and decided to join metal with play dough because it was environmentally sound according to my new beliefs would you enter that building?

        40

        • #
          Craig Thomas

          So you’re good with a hammer.

          Bill Nye is so much smarter than you that he actually understands greenhouse gases and climate change.

          05

          • #
            Yonniestone

            So he’d be comfortable with openly debating Roy Spencer or John Christy then, considering how smart he is it would be a perfect opportunity to expose these science deniers for the whole world to see and finally settle this right Craig?

            30

          • #
            Peter C

            Bill Nye is so much smarter than you that he actually understands greenhouse gases and climate change.

            Which he explains here in his Climate 101 Video.
            https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3v-w8Cyfoq8

            His simple science demonstration is as bad as it can be. It is a total untruth. The demonstration cannot be replicated if proper controls are used to ensure that each bottle gets the same amount of IR radiation.
            The thermometers shown with rising temperatures are not even the same ones which were placed in the glass jars! The bottles get swapped over at one point.

            50

          • #
            Roy Hogue

            Bill Nye is so much smarter than you that he actually understands greenhouse gases and climate change.

            No, Craig, Bill Nye does not understand greenhouse gasses and climate change. If he did he would understand that there is so little connection between the two that it’s laughable to say the things he does. And you have bought into the joke. It’s not about smart it’s about knowledge and Bill Nye doesn’t have it.

            Let me ask you a question. What evidence is there that greenhouse gasses are causing any warming or even that they have the capacity to do so? What is your empirical evidence for you position?

            I’m betting you won’t answer me, yet it’s a simple question that If I believed as you do I would make sure I could answer.

            30

            • #
              Roy Hogue

              Craig, ???

              20

              • #
                The Deplorable Vlad the Impaler

                I fear you wait in vain, Mr. Hogue. Note in #3 above, Mr. Thomas has taken a powder. Notice, he’s had ample time to respond to the query by David A, and doesn’t have an answer for a simple question.

                Regards,

                The Mostest Deplorablest Vlad the Impalerest, and a Big Bullyest, and an even Bigger Bore-est, according to C.T.

                20

  • #

    You know what would have been the event of this century (were it possible), Bill Nye and Julius Sumner Miller debating science.

    100

  • #
    tom0mason

    Bill Nye?
    Bill who?… what the British actor?

    That should be the response of all outside of the USA.
    But no. From the way it goes some regional television entertainer who plays at knowing science has become a global name.
    Yes another nobody, who I’m not interested in, cue Al Gore, David Attenborough, and any loudmouth Hollywood nonentity, is now opining on the world stage like they’re important and actually know something.

    Personally I don’t give a rat’s ass what Bill Whoever says.

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    • #
      Annie

      No…Bill Nye, the American ‘Science Guy’ (?!),
      Bill Nighy, the English actor.

      No more confusion, Confucius. ;)

      70

      • #
        tom0mason

        Yes, my point exactly.

        Bill whoever.
        Only the British actor called Bill Nighy is worth paying attention to when he’s acting, all others, especially those playing at acting the scientist should be unknowns outside of USA, as AFAIK he’s a egoistic, talentless, ignoranass, nonentity.

        51

        • #
          Craig Thomas

          Yep, so insecure in your (risible) beliefs that you have the shoot the messenger.

          12

          • #
            tom0mason

            @Craig Thomas

            Shoot the messenger?
            What like UAH ?
            I certainly do not take pot shots at people.

            10

    • #
      PeterS

      Agree 1000%. Bill Bye is such a clown. He often even dresses up like one.

      52

    • #
      Roy Hogue

      Tom, you point out how easily someone can talk himself into prominence, fame and money with just a few words said at the right time and place.

      Have you ever seen the movie Being There? It’s peter Sellers best roll by far and a comic masterpiece as it chronicles the rise of Chance the mentally handicapped gardener to Chauncey Gardner, advisor to the rich and finally, advisor to the president of the United States.

      I have no idea how sellers managed to keep a straight face through most of the scenes. The outtakes must be hilarious. It’s available from Turner Classic Movies on DVD or Blu-ray. The link is to the Blu-ray edition but a quick search on Being There will show you all the options.

      This is satire at it’s best, bar none.

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      • #
        Manfred

        If I recollect correctly, there is rather a sting in the tale Roy.

        20

      • #
        tom0mason

        Roy Hogue,

        Yep I agree and that is why we have to be careful about who we pay attention to, and to understand why others think some people opinions are important.

        Peter Sellers was at his best in that film, one of my favorites, such a shame it was his last.

        10

  • #
    John of Cloverdale, WA, Australia

    Always like Lubos Motl’s take on things over at The Reference Frame.

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    Manfred

    Bill Nye says nix that might be considered original, thoughtful or insightful. The Greens have been spouting the ‘wait until the old deniers die‘ krapititudinous intellectual diarrhoea as a matter of Credo. The key thing both he and the Greens overlook in their complex World of denier school children with exploding heads is that as an individual ages there is an inclination toward greater experience, BS detection and intolerance to being fleeced. Of far greater inconvenience, they are also somewhat more inclined toward the Right.

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  • #
    Robert Rosicka

    I liked him in the Ghostbusters and Caddy shack !

    20

  • #
    gnome

    So when the Republican Party dies off so will global warming scepticism and vice versa? The guy is beyond satire (but then, you all already knew that).

    Wake him up when a sceptic turns believer. So far it’s all been the other way.

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  • #

    Men who wear bow ties should be put in a gulag alongside men who wear scarves in summer. Tolerance has its limits.

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    • #
      Annie

      My OH wears one for a joke.

      40

    • #
      JLC of Perth

      And socks with sandals

      40

    • #
      RAH

      Nye has been wearing his bow ties to tight for years resulting in ischemia of the brain or IOW irreversible brain damage due lack of oxygenated blood flow, and that accounts for his silly stupidity and the fact that over time his views have become ever more extreme. He is the Pee Wee Herman of the scam but doesn’t realize how ridiculous he appears and thinks he is being taken seriously by rational thinking adults. He believes people are laughing with him when actually we’re laughing at him.

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    • #
      RAH

      Hell I used to wear a “scarf” in summer quite often in the field when in the Army. It was a cravat. A triangular piece of green cloth that is medical issue that can be used to form a sling for a injured arm or used for many other medical purposes such as making a tourniquet or helping to secure a splint. You need at least six of them to properly fix a Thomas leg splint used to stabilize and apply traction for a fractured femur. I wore one around my neck because I could use the tails to wipe the sweat out my eyes or form a skull cap that offered some camo properties and worked like a sweat band. Cravats and “penny cutter” scissors were probably the two most utilitarian items in the whole medics kit.

      50

  • #
    Earl

    In 2008, at the height of the Millenium drought in Australia, I told a group of my students at a major TAFE college in Victoria, that at the end of 2010, we would have more rain than we have seen in years.
    I was mocked and ridiculed, “Tim Flannery says that this is the new norm”.
    At the end of 2010 Victoria had floods, the worst in decades.
    Some of my students rang me, remembering my prediction.
    Their question was,”How did you know.”
    I am old and have see it all before.
    As the song says, everything old is new again

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  • #
    Sean

    Look at the faces and voices of the climate change movement. First you have Al Gore, rated by Bob Woodword of the Washington Post as one of the least intelligent politicians in Washington. He comes across as a corrupt TV Evangelist when talking about climate (and lives the lifestyle of one as well). There is Michael Mann who is thin skinned and mean spirited but can always produce a convincing graph to support a government position if allowed to massage the data enough. Billionaire Tom Steyer spends wads of cash on Democrats in national elections and the party he supports loses the House, Senate and the executive branch. And then there is Bill Nye. A mechanical engineer turned TV personality spouting extreme left wing ideology as science. With a team like this, it’s a wonder even the Democrats in the US still support nonsense.

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  • #
    OriginalSteve

    The Climate Clowns need to be rounded up and tried, no exceptions. They need old school scruff of the neck management…and they will get it, I’m sure….

    41

  • #
    TdeF

    Amazing really, 18% of Republicans are scared by Global Warming but an amazing 66% of Democrats. Nothing to do with science then. So which side is gullible, easily scared, credulous and follows the herd, prepared to believe what they are told without question?

    Imagine a survey on whether gravity exists? Would that be split the same way? What about rapidly rising oceans after thirty years of nothing happening, no islands drowned, Bangladesh fine, polar bear populations growing? What about runaway, tipping point, ten years to live Global Warming and all those long expired predictions of imminent doom? Like the Rapture or the Mayan Apocalypse, nothing to see? Long gone. Expired. Nothing to see. The sky has not fallen. Even BREXIT was supposed to be the very end of life, but it seems fine. Even the Germans are starting to think the EU stinks.

    It’s still a wonder Trump won the election with 66% of half the population prepared to believe whatever they are told. As for Bill De Nyer, he must be feeling a little sceptical by now? Surely? Or is he another Flannery or Gore? Then you get our own “Science guru” Robyn Williams who was happy to accept seas 100 metres over Sydney in 100 years except that after 30 years they should already be half way to the Sydney Harbour Bridge, not lapping ay Circular Key. All those horrible predicitions of imminent doom and disaster and Bill Nye is still praying that something, anything goes horribly wrong. Just to feel vindicated.

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  • #
    philthegeek

    Instead young gullibles grow up to be old skeptics

    Lol! Or in fact old skeptics of dubious citizenship. :) You couldn’t write this stuff for a comedy script could you? :)

    41

  • #
    Roy Hogue

    I didn’t know “dingbatitude” was even in the lexicon of science. I guess you can learn something new every day if you just look — and sometimes even if you don’t go looking.

    On the other hand it’s certainly in the lexicon of Bill Nye.

    It must be nice to be in a position to spout off big words and puff yourself up. But that’s all he’s doing. He should stick to middle school level science, real science, which is something he does fairly well. That way he’ll avoid making a fool of himself over climate change.

    82

    • #
      Roy Hogue

      In case you don’t know it Bill, we’re all laughing at your abysmal ignorance about the climate and worse, your abysmal ignorance about climate change skeptics.

      Maybe you don’t notice all the predictions that fail to materialize. They don’t even come true when you wave your magic wand of science over them. Maybe you don’t notice the doctored up data and other little tricks they do to make false appear to be true. But there are millions of people all over the world who will realize the truth. And when they do, just like magic there are instantly more skeptics.

      81

  • #

    Climate change affects mental and social health as well as physical well-being
    July 21, 2017 by Ellen Goldbaum
    Rising global temperatures are impacting not just peoples’ physiological health but also society’s health, according to “Heat Advisory: Protecting Health on a Warming Planet,” a book by a University at Buffalo professor.

    Coming out in paperback in August, the book provides an alarming but systematic overview of the peer-reviewed medical and scientific research exploring the public health impact of climate change. In addition to obvious effects, such as increased death rates caused by heat waves producing heat stroke and related conditions, the book discusses how agricultural disasters caused either by severe droughts or excessive rainfall damage human health.
    {SNIP}
    … if any of these effects can be mitigated, they will require massive investments. “A huge amount of public health infrastructure needs to be developed… [SNIP]

    The book draws connections between the increased incidence of such diseases and obstacles to higher education and economic mobility in populations affected by them.
    “Malaria makes countries poor and keeps them that way,” says Lockwood. “In countries where there is a high incidence of malaria, hundreds of thousands of children die and if they survive, they’re not as well-educated, they’re likely to be anemic and of low-birth weight, so their intellectual potential isn’t as high. For countries like this, it’s very hard for them to make the economic and social progress to rise from third world status.”
    And while populations in the U.S. may not be the first to experience the worst climate change has to offer, no one can afford to be complacent, according to Lockwood. “Look at maps of the range of the mosquito carrying dengue and Zika,” he says, “It spreads up to the Ohio River Valley. Already the Aedes aegyptii mosquito has been found to spread north from Gulf states during summers and it’s found all year round in the Gulf coast.”
    [snip]
    Lockwood is a senior scientist with Physicians for Social Responsibility. His previous book is The Silent Epidemic: Coal and the Hidden Threat to Health.

    Read more at: https://phys.org/news/2017-07-climate-affects-mental-social-health.html#jCp

    ——————

    Alan Lockwood takes everyone to cons! And the closer you get to the equator, the more cons!
    Smart people suck ice! Hahahaha!

    Like what the Eskimos would be the most intelligent with their heads cold and that people would be smarter in the morning or in the evening, degenerate in mornings and afternoons and completely cons to die when it sounds noon to the pendulum! Hahahaha!

    When is the anti-con tanning cream?

    [Snipped -too long quoting from article -Jo]

    16

    • #
      Manfred

      “Alan Lockwood – senior scientist with Physicians for Social Responsibility.”

      So, hmmm, he’s obviously dispassionate and disinterested in his analysis, bereft of political agenda and bias, a masterful scientist? No. This is pure scientivism. I detest the ease with which so many people in the eco-Marxist Globocult assume they have the corner on “social responsibility,” sometimes described as “do gooders,” at a civic council level with its mildly irritating and meddlesome ring, to “policy analysts,” at a government level with its repugnant “we know best for your own good.” Then, out there on the open plain there are messianic folk like Lockwood, who have a “vision” and a “mission.” Such individuals have of course eliminated all doubt. They inhabit the domain of “settled politics.”

      Public health is emphatically not a place where one would look for objective scientific evidence. It is a place that purports, among other things, to reveal associations and measure or weigh the evidence that just might establish causation, , the useful Braford Hill criteria of causation. Sir Austin BH “argued that these viewpoints were not hard-and-fast rules of evidence. They could not provide indisputable evidence for or against a cause-and-effect hypothesis.”

      Instead, Lockwood unwittingly betrays himself, presenting a perfect example of “policy-based evidence.” He illustrates the fallacy of evidence-based policy, and the absence of doubt, described by Benessia et al. (2016) in their book, The Rightful Place of Science: Science on the Verge.

      40

  • #
    Tom O

    Just looking at the graphics presented showing the relationship of party to positions, I had to wonder what would happen, if the people that like to take polls, actually bothered to try to get real information. For instance, as the voters aged, did they change affiliation with party? That is, as democrats become older and wiser, do they become independent or republican? You can’t just say republicans are older, democrats are younger because in time, if that were the case, the republican party would cease to exist. Somehow, it is being replenished, and the democratic party is not growing with the population, so there must be transitioning to the GOP. It would be interesting to know at what approximate age, then, the dems start to lose interest in progressivism, and start considering conservatism. Of course, the hard core socialist stays with the party, Bernie Sanders, as an example, but these attract the young progressives that are the bulk of the party. but again, these people go somewhere since the party isn’t exploding.

    60

    • #

      The increase in climate change concerns by Democrats is largely a result of the Obama administration constantly harping on the issue.

      “A lie told often enough becomes the truth” – Vladimir Lenin

      “Repeat a lie often enough and it becomes the truth” – Joseph Goebbels

      “There’s a sucker born every minute” – PT Barnum

      110

  • #

    Unless magic is accepted as a way to circumvent physics, the skeptical cause will never die.

    50

  • #
    Zigmaster

    I don’t know if it’s because I almost read exclusively sceptical websites or it is a fact, I am not aware of not one high profile sceptic who when he looked at the science said I’m wrong and became a high profile warmist. On the other hand there appears to be many example of high profile sceptics including Matt Ridley, Judith Curry who have become high profile sceptics.
    I would be interested if anyone can name one person who having looked at the science became a vocal warmist. This situation is despite the avalanche of criticism and vindictiveness that this brings.

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  • #

    Happened to me as an engineering student surrounded by brainwashers in the 1970s. So I picked an argument with Jerry Pournelle… then I dusted myself off and published an open letter of apology to Jerry Pournelle and went to work for Petr Beckmann of Access to Energy–author of The Health Hazards of NOT Going Nuclear. George Orwell observed that when folks discover they´ve been duped, they’re apt to come looking for vengeance with blood in their eyes.

    51

  • #
    Mark M

    If the people who believe in Doomsday Global Warming only saw their doctor for an assisted suicide note, the planet would be saved.

    22

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  • #
  • #
    Leonard Lane

    I feel sorry for Bill Nye. He seeks notoriety and fame. Who showers good comments on you if you support the global warming movement (really one world socialist government that would want to get rid of billions of people) it is the leftists. He sold his integrity for something as ephemeral and worthless as praise from the left. Praise from those will praise you one day and knife you in the back the next is of little or no value.

    50

  • #
    el gordo

    ‘…when asked how serious a problem climate change is, women in the U.S. are significantly more likely than American men (by a margin of 17 percentage points) to say it’s a somewhat or very serious problem. Canadian and Australian women’s concern also outweighs that of men in their respective countries, by 13 points and 12 points, respectively.’

    Pew Research Centre 2015

    Yes indeedy, its the maternal instinct. Yet another clear indication that god works in mysterious ways.

    40

    • #
      el gordo

      So I put out an appeal to all the old men in this shed, how to change a woman’s mind?

      10

      • #
        Graeme No.3

        Roses, chocoalates and a sledge hammer.

        10

        • #
          el gordo

          You give them no credit, they accept the dogma out of ignorance.

          ‘While women were more likely to “exhibit more scientifically accurate climate knowledge” than men, McCright found that women were less likely than men to express confidence in their understanding of global warming — a phenomenon of underestimation that has been illustrated in other studies focusing on gender and math and science, he wrote.’

          Scientific America

          20

        • #
          Annie

          It wouldn’t work with me…I make up my own mind after having a good think and much reading.

          10

          • #
            el gordo

            Hope you don’t mind me asking, do you think CO2 causes a little bit of warming?

            00

            • #
              Annie

              In lab conditions, up to a point. In the atmosphere? Perhaps a little but there are many other factors to consider that are of far more consequence. Does not CO2 increase in the wake of warming oceans rather than follow it? Is it not essential to life as we know it and a drop from present levels would be detrimental to life as it presently exists on the planet? We need photosynthesis.

              10

              • #
                el gordo

                From memory in dry conditions there is a positive feedback, but if you add water vapour the effect is neutralised. This is where the cosmic ray theory comes in, more low cloud cover and cooler temperatures.

                During this modern climate optimum a lot of CO2 has been liberated from the oceans and by coincidence the CO2 sinks picked up speed to match. The oceans should soon begin to cool and drawdown even more CO2, but there is nothing we can do about that.

                The argument goes that old white guys will soon die out and take their Denialati culture with them, a reasonable assumption and if the hiatus continues for another couple of decades it will surely happen without new recruits.

                We need the women on our side and we’ll win this war of words, but I’m unsure how to change their minds?

                00

          • #
            Annie

            G No3…the use of a sledgehammer would just make me dig my heels in! I don’t take kindly to such tactics.

            10

      • #
        Annie

        Some of us made up our own minds. I never was a ‘warmist’ although I’ve always been concerned for the environment. I’ve planted many trees and spent time and energy picking up rubbish along the roadside, doubtless thrown out by the passing brainless tourists who seem to think that their bottles, cans, McDonalds wrappers, etc. don’t belong to them once they’ve emptied them, and who may well believe in CAGW for all I know. Just because I’m a woman doesn’t make me brainless. In fact, sometimes I’ve come across couples where it is the woman who looked into the matter properly first!

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        • #

          Hi Annie, like you I did my own journey – and I plant
          trees too. This way-back post from Chiefio, ‘Got Wood,’
          - so good.)

          https://chiefio.wordpress.com/2010/10/10/got-wood/

          Does his own computations, log curve that as CO2
          levels drop, plants rapidly reach a point where
          they survive but don’t thrive and growth is limited.

          A fast growth species, like poplars and eucalypts,
          ‘completely drains the air above it of all CO2 in one
          year, AND most of the acre next to it. Given that
          plants suck CO2 out below 100pm, its more like they
          drain twice the area they occupy down to the limit of
          survival. In one year.’

          10

        • #
          el gordo

          ‘Just because I’m a woman doesn’t make me brainless. ‘

          No, just different wiring, which probably goes back to the time of homo erectus out on the Savannah.

          At present its not possible to talk with a female zealot about the weather or anything related to it, I need your good opinion on how to manage it.

          20

          • #
            Annie

            Unfortunately, EG, I also have no clue as to how to deal with a female zealot! We have some around here, including one absolute shocker who is very rude and aggressive with it, and I cannot work out her mindset so I fear I cannot help you much there. People like her just shout you down and will not engage in discussion at all. That particular one was appallingly rude to my husband and has yet to apologise; in fact, I do not think she ever will and I simply do not understand her at all. :( I do not try to talk to her now, I just try to be basically polite but somewhat distant.

            11

            • #
              el gordo

              Thanks Annie, that is also the approach I have been taking.

              The most exciting thing about this whole debate is the mass delusion, we have to find a way to convince women everywhere that global cooling has begun and its the end of the world as we know it.

              10

    • #

      Well the three J’s, Jo N. Jennifer M. and Judith C.
      are doing a pretty good job of getting it out there.

      40

  • #
    David Maddison

    More panic about losing the Larsen Ice Shelf due to a crack.

    This is an entirely normal process as we know but note the clever use of the following words to create doubt in the minds of the ignorant and stupid.

    Many have speculated whether human-induced climate change caused A68 to break-off from the ice shelf

    https://www.rt.com/viral/397015-larsen-ice-shelf-crack/

    30

  • #
    David Maddison

    My comment in moderation as well.

    00

  • #
    Another Ian

    Back to sceptics – maybe they get more powerful?

    https://wattsupwiththat.com/2017/07/21/a-double-tale-on-a-single-nomination/

    “His nomination to be the top science advisor in the USDA has sparked controversy, as Clovis has said he’s skeptical of climate science.”

    30

  • #
    michael hart

    “Older voters are more likely to recognize that it’s all been done before.”

    Yes. Until you’ve got more than 30 years of memories then it can be argued that you’ve only ever seen weather, not climate. And the older you get, the more you realise that lots of wild predictions were made that never came true.

    If Bill Nye thinks everybody has bad memory and is going to forget, then he has another think coming. And…..we have the internet to help us remember and supply evidence of failed warmunist predictions. I mean…just how many laughable “Arctic sea ice gone by year xxxx” can you find with just a few seconds of searching?

    30

  • #
    Peter C

    Of interest is the graph of poll results labelled Partisan Gap Widens on Worries about Global Warming. Voters of all persuasions became less worried between 2007 and 2011.

    Among independent voters the rate almost halved from 44% to 23%.

    Since then the amount of worry has gone up amongst Democrat and Independents. However the hyperventilating of the Globul Warmers has become extreme in the lead up to Paris and subsequently. That might lead to the collapse of the whole scam.

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    pat

    MTV is owned by Viacom. 94-year-old Sumner Redstone is Chairman Emeritus of Viacom and CBS Corporation.

    Al Gore is 69.

    ***17-year-old Delaney, who will accompany Fat Joe, in Miami, is the perfect CAGW poster child.

    ***A Florida town requires solar on new homes.
    Grist-16 hours ago
    The city passed the law after high school student Delaney Reynolds, inspired by the laws in California, wrote to mayors in the area.

    Vibe article has attracted zero comments.

    19 Jul: Vibe: Jessica McKinney: Fat Joe Joins The Climate Change Discussion For Upcoming MTV Special
    As the state of our planet continues to worsen, major influencers in hip-hop are now joining the conversation about climate change. The latest star to get involved, Fat Joe, will reportedly be featured in the upcoming show, An Inconvenient Special on MTV this Aug. 2017.

    The TV special will document a millennial town hall conversation, shot in MTV’s Times Square studio. Former Vice President Al Gore, who’s been a frequent advocate for the subject, will host the meeting…

    The objective of the half-hour meeting is to reportedly provide a platform for millennials to voice their concerns and discuss ways in which they can create change, Billboard reports.
    A short, promotional clip reveals the special will also include field scenes, in which Fat Joe and 17-year-old activist, ***Delaney Reynolds, take it to the streets of Miami in order to learn more about the environmental issues that are directly affecting the community.

    “Young people are one of the greatest reasons for hope that we can and will solve the climate crisis, and I am thrilled to participate in An Inconvenient Special to listen to their ideas, hopes, and concerns, as well as learn about some of their amazing work on behalf of the planet,” Al Gore said in a statement.

    “Young people today are creative, open-minded, empathetic, and they understand the enormous impact the climate crisis will have on them and their families. They’re ready to make a change and put us on the path to a sustainable future, and I have no doubt in my mind they will be the generation to do it.”

    The MTV special is reportedly an extension of his documentary, An Inconvenient Sequel: Truth to Power, which originally aired at the 2017 Sundance Film Festival in January. Over Gore’s political career, he’s launched several campaigns in support of resolving the climate crisis.

    In preparation for the upcoming special, MTV has dubbed the week of July 31, “An Inconvenient Week.” An Inconvenient Special will reportedly air on Aug. 2 at 7:30 p.m. ET on MTV. It will also air at various times on Viacom’s 10 other networks.

    Check out the trailer for the TV special above.
    https://www.vibe.com/2017/07/fat-joe-an-inconvenient-special-steve-aoki-al-gore-climate-change/

    Billboard original attracted zero comments:

    18 Jul: Billboard: Sadie Bell: Al Gore, Fat Joe & Steve Aoki Team Up for ‘An Inconvenient Special’ on MTV: Exclusive
    “Our audience is passionate about the environment and the issue of climate change, so it’s important we share our platforms to amplify their voices,” said Amy Doyle, General Manager of MTV, VH1 and Logo. “We are honored to have former Vice President Al Gore lead our Town Hall to continue the important dialogue around climate change.”

    An Inconvenient Special airs Aug. 2 at 7:30 p.m. ET/PT on MTV and again at 11:00 p.m. ET/PT on BET and on Friday, Aug. 4 at 5:00 p.m. ET/PT on VH1. Watch an exclusive clip of the special featuring Fat Joe in Miami with youth activist Delaney Reynolds above.
    http://www.billboard.com/articles/news/television/7866227/mtv-inconvenient-special-al-gore-steve-aoki-fat-joe

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    pat

    behind paywall – hope someone can excerpt it.
    Climate Depot has this plus Gavin Schmidt’s twitter responses, see below:

    18 Jul: WSJ: Our Changing News Climate
    Why even New York Times readers may resist the faith.
    By James Freeman
    Just exactly how much has the climate changed in recent decades? Longtime New York Times readers can be forgiven if they are now thoroughly confused on the matter.

    Last month this column noted that the actions of the New York Times suggest that the people who put out the newspaper don’t think burning carbon is as dangerous as one would think from reading their product. How else to explain their marketing effort to persuade well-heeled readers to increase emissions by travelling the globe aboard a barely-filled Boeing?…
    https://www.wsj.com/articles/our-changing-news-climate-1500412008?mod=e2tw

    re the above:

    TWEETS: Gavin Schmidt:
    This whole (WSJ) article is based on a confusion that we know the absolute temperature of the Earth better than the changes. We do not…

    If I am measuring how tall my child is growing, do I need to factor in my elevation above sea level? No. I just need a stable doorpost…

    FROM REPLIES:
    Les Johnson: Apparently you also need an adjustable door post, to change past heights….READ ALL
    https://twitter.com/ClimateOfGavin/status/888446951515095040

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    Robert Rosicka

    What cracks me up is they call us “flat earthers” , when it them who have an ideology based problem .

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      TdeF

      It’s hard to not enjoy the irony. Often people perceive and criticize their own faults in others, justified or not. An inadvertent intellectual selfie.

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    pat

    google is featuring every two-bit CAGW website in their top results for this story.

    headline geared towards the youth?

    Trump Nominates Sam Clovis, a Dude Who Is Not a Scientist, to Be Department of Agriculture’s Top Scientist
    Gizmodo· Jul 20, 2017

    have tried to find a few excerpts expressing less outrage:

    Updated: Trump pick for USDA science post has drawn darts for lack of technical background
    Science Magazine· Jul 20, 2017 (from E&E Greenwire)
    The undersecretary’s position requires Senate confirmation.
    Clovis has built support among farm groups in Iowa.
    “At first blush, it would seem like a good fit for Sam,” said Monte Shaw, executive director of the Iowa Renewable Fuels Association, who once tried to recruit Clovis to write a research paper for the organization. “He is incredibly intelligent and has an academic background.”…

    21 Jul: E&E News:Amid opposition, an unlikely ally applauds Trump’s ag pick
    by Marc Heller
    Clovis — whom Trump this week picked to lead the Agriculture Department’s research, education and economics efforts — has a fan in Kellye Eversole, president of Eversole Associates, a Maryland agricultural science and technology consulting firm and a former volunteer for Hillary Clinton’s presidential campaign.

    “The criteria should be leadership and whether they have the chutzpah to get things done,” said Eversole, who added that she’s met with Clovis more than once to discuss agricultural research and believes he is committed to that cause.

    Clovis’ lack of science background is emerging as a flashpoint in his expected nomination. Democratic senators, including ranking member Debbie Stabenow of Michigan, have started lining up against Clovis. The Union of Concerned Scientists also weighed in against him.

    Among other complaints, they said his lack of science background appears to violate the multiyear farm bill, which calls for the undersecretary slot to be filled with “distinguished scientists with specialized training or significant experience in agricultural research, education, and economics.”…

    His skepticism about climate change science has also drawn criticism from Democrats and from some research organizations.

    But Eversole said she’s more concerned that USDA concentrate on research into helping crops adjust to weather-related challenges, no matter the root cause — and that Clovis, as a Trump confidante, is in a good position to promote it to the White House…

    Sen. Chris Coons (D-Del.) said in statement, “The USDA is critical in helping provide our farmers with the information they need to improve plant and animal resilience, be more effective stewards of their land, and adopt new technology and practices on their farms. This could all be at risk if the agency’s head of science has no relevant scientific training and rejects current scientific thinking.”…
    https://www.eenews.net/eedaily/2017/07/21/stories/1060057711

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      pat

      followup to comment in moderation on the same topic.

      20 Jul: UK Independent: Andrew Bunscombe: Trump appoints man who thinks climate science is ‘junk’ to top science post
      Ms(sic) Clovis has worked as a college professor and a radio talk show host
      Sam Clovis, who has described the near universal consensus on the threat of climate change as “junk science”, was selected for the position of the USDA’s Research, Education and Economics division…
      Speaking on Iowa Public Radio in 2014, he said the climate change consensus was “junk science” and “not proven.”

      In October, he told E&E News that a Trump administration would not prioritise climate science in its agriculture policy.
      “I think our position is very clearly that Mr Trump is a sceptic on climate change, and we need more science. Once we get more science, we’re going to make decisions,” Mr Clovis said…
      http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/us-politics/trump-climate-change-skeptic-sam-clovies-appointed-usda-science-junk-a7850991.html

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    pat

    21 Jul: DNA India: India Inc’s growth story will be powered by coal energy
    by Sanjay Kumar Kar
    (The author is an Associate Professor (Marketing & Energy) and the Head of Department of Management Studies at the Rajiv Gandhi Institute of Petroleum Technology)
    The Central Electricity Authority (CEA) estimates a generation of 9,58,442 million units (MU) of coal-based electricity in 2017-18, compared to 9,21,129 MU in 2016-17, a targeted growth of 3.9 per cent.
    At end of June, in India, of the total 329.2 GW of installed capacity, 194.5 GW of coal-based power plants contributed 59 per cent, which means that it still is the undisputed leader of lighting millions of households and running numerous industries…

    On the other hand, the gas-based power plants are struggling due to a short supply of gas. CEA’s annual fuel supply report (2016-17) suggests that gas-based power plants could receive just about 30 per cent of their allotted gas…In the near future, the gas supply situation for gas-based power plants may not improve.
    Therefore, it is fair to argue that coal may continue its dominance in the absence of any serious challenge…

    Until the efficiency of renewable power, especially solar and wind, takes a quantum leap, coal will continue to power the Indian economy.
    http://www.dnaindia.com/analysis/column-india-inc-s-growth-story-will-be-powered-by-coal-energy-2508922

    21 Jul: FinancialExpressBangladesh: Govt to set up 22 coal-fired power plants in four years
    This was stated by State Minister for Energy and Mineral Resources Nasrul Hamid while talking to a local news agency.
    Out of the 22 plants, seven would be built by government, seven by private sector and the rest eight in joint venture, he said…
    The government has targeted meeting at least 30.0 per cent of the country’s power demand from coal-based plants by 2030, he said…
    He said producing electricity from coal would also help keep power tariff at an affordable level because coal is cheaper than other available sources of power generation…
    According to the energy and power ministry, a memorandum of understanding (MoU) has already been signed for setting up of a 1320 MW capacity coal-fired power plant in a joint initiative of China Energy Engineering Corporation Limited (Energy China) and Ashuganj Power Station Company Ltd (APSCL)…
    http://www.thefinancialexpress-bd.com/2017/07/21/77602/Govt-to-set-up-22-coal-fired-power-plants-in-four-years%C2%A0

    20 Jul: The Hill: Gore: Trump prompting ‘biggest upsurge’ of climate activism ever
    By Ben Kamisar
    Citing Newton’s Third Law — every action has an equal and opposite reaction — Gore said he is emboldened by the defense he’s seen of the climate ever since Trump’s controversial decision to pull the U.S. out of the accord.
    “What we are seeing in the United States of America today is the biggest upsurge of activism in favor of the climate that we have ever experienced. And it’s in reaction to what President Trump has said,” Gore said during a taping of a SiriusXM/Variety Magazine town hall interview.
    “And we are seeing the same thing around the world — the other countries have doubled down on their commitment,” Gore continued…
    “Because people are now awakening to it and we now have the solutions available to us, the only remaining element needed is political will. But political will is a renewable resource and its my hope the movie will contribute to renewing that political will,” he said.
    “The decades just ahead will be a test of the courage and character of human kind,” Gore said…

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    pat

    21 Jul: Daily Caller: Chris White: Report: Trump Expected To Nominate Coal Lobbyist For Top Spot At EPA
    President Donald Trump is expected to nominate a top coal lobbyist as the number two person at the Environmental Protection Agency (EPA), Axios reported Friday.
    Coal industry lobbyist Andrew Wheeler will become EPA Administrator Scott Pruitt’s second lieutenant…
    Wheeler is a lobbyist for Murray Energy, the coal mining company whose CEO is an adamant Trump supporter…
    Wheeler’s nominating process could become contentious…
    http://dailycaller.com/2017/07/21/report-trump-expected-to-nominate-coal-lobbyist-for-top-spot-at-epa/

    21 Jul: Toronto Sun: Ontario back in coal burning business
    By Shawn Jeffords
    If they can pay $6.7 billion for a U.S. energy company, Hydro One doesn’t need your cash…
    News Wednesday of Hydro One’s acquisition of U.S.-based Avista Corp. shows the energy company isn’t hard up for cash, he said…
    The purchase will also again see Ontario jump back into the business of burning coal, he added.

    “Kathleen Wynne has justified all of the expensive increases in the electricity sector to getting the province out of coal,” Smith said. “Now here we are back in the coal business again with Avista operating one of the largest coal-fired plants west of the Mississippi.”…
    Despite the privatization of Hydro One, the government remains the largest single shareholder…

    The Avista purchase also drew poor reviews from environmental groups.
    The Ontario Clean Air Alliance panned the deal, calling it a “huge step backward for this province’s climate leadership.”
    http://www.torontosun.com/2017/07/21/ontario-back-in-coal-burning-business

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    pat

    21 Jul: Tass: First consignment of coal from Russsia’s Chukotka leaves for China
    Chukotka’s Beringpromugol coal company, which is a resident of the Bering advance-development territory, began coal supplies to China, press service of Chukotka’s Autonomous District said on Friday…
    The delivery of the hard fuel from the field to the port would be much more easy now that a 40-kilometer road has been opened there.
    “Every day, eight vehicles carrying 40 tonnes will deliver the fuel to the port. China’s next vessels is due to get to Chukotka in early August. Another vessel will be ready for loading tomorrow, on July 22 – it will take aboard five thousand tonnes for Pevek,” the press service said.

    ***The Beringpromugol Company (subsidiary of Australia’s Tigers Realm Coal) began preparations for development of the Fandyushkinskoye field in early August, 2016. The company attracted investments of 23.3 million Australian dollars.
    http://tass.com/economy/957302

    22 Jul: HellenicShippingNews: Russia’s Kolmar offering new hard coking coal with Deni Creek brand
    The first trial shipment of 15,000 mt will be loaded in July, to be delivered to China…
    Kolmar is targeting Asian markets such as China, India, Japan and South Korea for its Deni Creek coal, as well as Europe if arbitrage opportunities exist…
    Asia is the largest seaborne metallurgical coal importing region in the world. China, India, Japan and South Korea between them account for 79% of the 63 million mt traded globally in 2016…
    As of end of 2019, Kolmar is expected to ship from its own port terminal in Muchka Bay, Vanino, in Russia’s Far East. It will have the initial capacity to ship 12 million mt/year, with potential to double by 2023.
    Kolmar, founded in 2004, has total balance coal reserves of 1.03 billion mt in South Yakutia…
    http://www.hellenicshippingnews.com/russias-kolmar-offering-new-hard-coking-coal-with-deni-creek-brand/

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    pat

    21 Jul: VirginianPilot: Coal revival? Hampton Roads’ coal exports are up big in 2017.
    By Robert McCabe
    The picture began to change late last year, when all three of the port’s coal-export terminals – Norfolk Southern Corp.’s Pier 6 at Lamberts Point and Kinder Morgan’s Pier IX and Dominion Terminal Associates in Newport News – together posted a dramatic spike in business.
    From this January through June, coal exports from Hampton Roads are up 56 percent from last year, according to T. Parker Host, a Norfolk-based ship agency, the largest in the nation for vessels carrying dry-bulk cargoes…

    (Jim Thompson, Knoxville, Tenn.-based senior director for U.S. coal with IHS Markit, a global research firm) said he believes the surge in Hampton Roads’ coal exports is due to a combination of factors: a stronger metallurgical coal market; shippers choosing to get more involved in the thermal market; and railroads working with people to try to make transportation costs work.

    That third point seems to be borne out in recent railroad financial statements.
    Last week, CSX Corp., which serves both the Pier IX and DTA coal terminals in Newport News, reported a 27 percent year-over-year increase in coal revenue for the second quarter, on a 7 percent gain in coal volume.
    In April, Norfolk Southern reported that coal revenue for the first quarter surged 20 percent from the same quarter a year earlier, on a 21 percent gain in coal volume…

    Norfolk Southern’s export-coal business for the first quarter soared 71 percent from a year earlier, though the company exports coal from Baltimore as well as Norfolk…
    Nationwide, coal exports for the first quarter of this year were up 58 percent from the same quarter last year, the Washington, D.C.-based U.S. Energy Information Administration announced last week…

    Putting everything in perspective, however, the EIA noted that U.S. coal exports are still running way below capacity, having exported 61 million tons last year though the nation had a coal-export capacity of ***257 million tons…

    “Facilities in the Norfolk, Virginia, area alone have the capacity to export approximately 84 (million tons) annually – more than the total amount of coal exported from all U.S. ports in 2016,” the agency stated….

    Probably the single biggest driver of the surge in exports is that there is international demand for U.S. metallurgical coal right now, (Thompson) added: “That is a function of the market rather than the political environment.”
    https://pilotonline.com/business/ports-rail/coal-revival-hampton-roads-coal-exports-are-up-big-in/article_70932757-9ace-5179-bf38-5863dcb51747.html

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    pat

    21 Jul: EcoWatch: Big Coal Burns Bright at ALEC Conference
    By Chris Taylor
    (Chris Taylor is an American lawyer and a Democratic member of the Wisconsin State Assembly from the 76th District -in and around Madison, Wisconsin)
    The best part of my 9th American Legislative Exchange Council (ALEC) conference so far was trying to get into the host hotel in Denver.
    When I pulled up in my cab, it was surrounded by hundreds of protestors marching on the sidewalk and shouting some of my favorite chants…
    So I marched with them for a bit, pulling my suitcase behind me, and then ducked under the tape to get into the hotel.
    Now that’s the way to start an ALEC conference…

    Unlike many other Republican presidential candidates during the last election, including Vice President Mike Pence, Donald Trump never appeared and kissed the ALEC ring. I don’t think he was the first (or second or third) choice of most ALEC members.

    But Big Coal, which drives ALEC’s energy and anti-environmental model policies, is burning bright for him now. The fracking industries and king coal producers Noble Energy and ARCO dominated the first day of the 44th ALEC conference. The terms “clean coal” and “clean fossil fuels,” oxymorons if I ever heard one, were uttered so many times by the gas and oil industry that I lost count. And dirty coal dominated the day, with the gas and oil industry, including ExxonMobil, paying tens of thousands of dollars to host the first lunch and an entire afternoon of workshops.

    The big coal producers can barely contain their glee at the gutting of environmental policies rolling out of the White House. At the opening lunch, Noble Energy executive Chip Rimer extolled that the “oil and gas industry is an example of what good policies can do.”

    At the afternoon workshops paying homage to fossil fuels, a Colorado state senator exclaimed how “great” it is to see the federal government shifting back to fossil fuels. Yikes…
    https://www.ecowatch.com/alec-conference-denver-2463057211.html

    20 Jul: WaPo: This could be the next big strategy for suing over climate change
    By Chris Mooney and Brady Dennis
    Two California coastal counties and one beach-side city touched off a possible new legal front in the climate change battle this week, suing dozens of major oil, coal, and other fossil fuel companies for the damages they say they will incur due to rising seas.

    The three cases, which target firms such as Chevron, ExxonMobil, BP and Royal Dutch Shell, assert that the fossil fuel producers are collectively responsible for about 20 percent of global carbon dioxide emissions between 1965 and 2015. They claim that industry “knew or should have known” decades ago about the threat of climate change, and want companies to pay the costs of communities forced to adapt to rising seas…

    But the difference is that this time, they are making state level nuisance claims rather than federal ones, which have already failed as courts pointed out that those worried about climate change had other recourses, such as EPA action…
    Marin County estimated nearly $16 billion of homes and businesses were threatened, and that with 6.7 feet of sea level rise, 7 percent of coastal roads would be “exposed to higher average sea level and storm threats at several locations.”
    Imperial Beach cited the potential for “over $106 million” in property damages because of coastal erosion and argued the town has few resources to adapt to rising seas.

    Vic Sher, a partner at the firm of Sher Edling who is helping lead the legal challenge, said the goal behind the lawsuits is to shift the “very real and very large costs of dealing with sea level rise” from ordinary citizens to the companies responsible for knowingly contributing to global warming…

    A strength of the lawsuit, note some legal observers, lies in the fact that sea level rise is easily measurable, constant (unlike climate-affected weather events), and very strongly linked to a warming planet. Moreover, analyses have become more and more precise when it comes to mapping which locations will be inundated, or subjected to greater flooding risks, for a given level of rising seas.
    Bookbinder said there could be a time when the science is powerful enough to try to assess blame for other climate related changes, such as droughts, but that sea level rise is a stronger and simpler case right now…

    “What’s different about these lawsuits is the way in which they rely on the current state of climate science and the current state of information about what these companies knew, when they knew it and what they did with their knowledge,” added Michael Burger, executive director of the Sabin Center for Climate Change Law at Columbia University.
    “Over the last several years, a lot of information has come to light … What we know now is fundamentally different from what we knew years ago.”
    https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/energy-environment/wp/2017/07/20/this-could-be-the-next-big-strategy-for-suing-over-climate-change/

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    pat

    ***don’t expect theirABC to give voice to any of those sceptics who disagreed:

    22 Jul: ABC: Adrienne Francis: Southern NSW farmer says changing climate is forcing him to move his flock
    A new climate change report has made some dire forecasts for the survival of threatened species and the future of farming in central and southern New South Wales.
    The Hot, Dry and Deadly report (LINK) by the state’s peak environmental organisation, the Nature Conservation Council, is based on peer-reviewed scientific data on the impact of global warming.
    It predicts that by 2090 the Southern Tablelands will face temperature increases of nearly four degrees, combined with an almost 50 per cent reduction in annual rainfall…

    ***Some farmers have disagreed with the gloomy prognosis for the impacts upon primary production, citing the success of ongoing innovation.

    But for mixed livestock farmer Mark Horan, managing a changing climate is business as usual…
    The deteriorating conditions prompted him to move his entire flock of 400 Merino sheep from Bedervale at Braidwood to a new property at Yass, which has a different climate, vastly reducing his feed bill…

    “Wheat production is expected to decline by about 11 per cent and sheep meat production by about 13 per cent and beef production by about 3 per cent,” Nature Conservation Council campaign director Daisy Barham said…

    Mr Horan said he believes the State Government is close to getting the right balance between renewable energy and coal-fired electricity generation…
    But there is agreement over the need for continued investment in climate research.
    “What could make everybody in farming make better decisions is accurate weather forecasting,” Mr Horan said.
    http://www.abc.net.au/news/2017-07-22/nsw-farmer-says-changing-climate-forcing-him-to-move-flock/8732448

    Daisy is out there spreading the good news:

    Climate of concern: report warns of impact of hotter, drier conditions
    Central Western Daily-20 Jul. 2017
    Nature Conservation Council campaigns director Daisy Barham said climate change is threatening the survival of Orange’s wildlife…

    Cowra to become hotter and drier
    Cowra Guardian-19 Jul. 2017
    NCC Campaigns Director Daisy Barham said

    Forum looks at impact of climate change on Bathurst and the region
    Western Advocate-19 Jul. 2017
    Nature Conservation Council Campaigns Director Daisy Barham

    Time to retire coal-fired power stations, senate told
    Echonetdaily-21 Feb. 2017
    Nature Conservation Council campaigns director Daisy Barham

    Millions of hectares of koala habitat at risk from NSW proposal …
    ABC Online-24 Nov. 2016
    But Daisy Barham…

    Farmer Mark Horan has been quoted by MSM a couple of times before, including:

    2012: Canberra Times: Daniel Morrissey: Sketchy budget details leave farmers unsure
    Farmer Mark Horan says the federal budget is “fairly beige for farmers” with little new spending and disappointing cuts in some programs, such as weed removal. ..
    But rural assistance will increase by nearly 50 per cent to $154 million in 2013-14, driven by the introduction of the carbon farming futures program, which the budget said was a grants scheme “designed to encourage the farming industry to reduce greenhouse gas emissions on the land”.
    Mr Horan said details on this program were “very sketchy” for family-run farms…

    Nov 2016: SMH: Katie Burgess: Uncertainty around backpacker tax creating ‘labour shortage’
    When backpackers arrive at Mark Horan’s Braidwood cattle farm, he said they usually can’t tell one end of the cow from the other.
    Recently though he’s noticed fewer working holidaymakers are passing through the town, which he believed would cause problems for horticulturalists in the district in particular.
    “I’ve got an 85-year-old mother-in-law who has WWOOFers [Willing Workers on Organic Farms] stay with her and they really help her out, she’s the sort of woman who’s still out hoeing serrated tussocks in the middle of the paddock at 85 years old,” Mr Horan said…

    NSW Farmers: Board of Directors
    Mark Horan
    Mr Horan and his wife operate a beef cattle enterprise, Hereford/Euro cross, at “Bedervale”, Braidwood NSW…
    Mr Horan has been centred around Braidwood for the past 16 years, originally coming from Canberra, where his family first settled in the late 1800’s. His background is very diverse having worked both on the land and in a corporate capacity…
    He moved away from the timber industry, joining BHP Steel in around 1992. He was promoted to a regional Manager position in 1993 where I was responsible for Southern NSW. He left BHP in 2001 to operate Family business in Braidwood…
    He was elected to an Amalgamated council area in 2004 until 2008. Mr Horan served on various committees while on council including the Sydney Catchment Authority, Local Government reference panel.
    http://www.nswfarmers.org.au/about-us/representatives/board-of-directors

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      pat

      well, well, well. Mark Horan might be on theirABC more often in the future!

      16 Jul: ABC: Young farmers rewrite NSW Farmers climate change policy
      ABC Rural – By Joshua Becker
      Young Farmers triumphed over sceptics and complex meeting procedures to push climate change onto the agenda at the New South Wales Farmers Association annual conference.
      In a rejigged policy on climate, they emphasised the need to move away from fossil fuels and closer to renewables.

      Young Farmers chair, Josh Gilbert, said he was pleased the policy now recognised that farmers would be the first to feel the impact of climate change.
      “It’s a bit surreal, but I guess fundamentally we got rid of some policy that NSW Farmers had that we felt was a bit outdated,” he said…

      “We’ve been able to rescind that and we’ve just inserted two new motions, which means NSW Farmers can now support their members who are advocating on behalf of climate change and they can also ensure that we’re looking for alternative energy sources and how that will benefit the community in the long term.”
      The association’s previous policy not only questioned whether climate change had been caused by humans, but also called on the Federal Government for a Royal Commission to examine the scientific evidence…

      Outgoing NSW Farmers president Fiona Simpson said she supported the input from the Young Farmers.
      “Young farmers, thank you very much for bringing these resolutions forward,” she said…
      http://www.abc.net.au/news/rural/2015-07-16/nsw-young-farmers-put-climate-change-on-agenda/6624996

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        pat

        btw Origin Energy is one of the partners of NSW Farmers Association, according to their website.

        17 Jul: BombalaTimes: Farmers meet in Sydney
        More than 200 farmers from across New South Wales will be attending this year’s NSW Farmers’ Association Annual Conference at the Marriott Hotel, Circular Quay.
        Key note speakers include Deputy Prime Minister Barnaby Joyce, NSW Minister for Primary Industries Niall Blair, Minister for Innovation and Better Regulation Matt Kean, National Farmers’ Federation President Fiona Simson and NSW Farmers’ Association President Derek Schoen…
        http://www.bombalatimes.com.au/story/4794038/nsw-farmers-annual-conference/

        following doesn’t suggest ANY CONCERNS WHATSOEVER about CAGW!

        21 Jul: NorthernDailyLeader: Chris Bath: Ag industry optimistic following annual conference
        Commodity prices, interest rates, electricity, water, telecommunications, and even Barnaby Joyce’s cotton underwear were all on the table at the annual NSW Farmers Conference.
        NSW Farmers president Derek Schoen wrapped up the conference in Sydney last week, leaving Tamworth and District Chair Kevin Tongue optimistic about the future of Australia’s industry.
        “There is a few dry spots west of the Newell at the moment, but regional ag is in a good position at the moment and the future looks good,” Mr Tongue said.

        “Most commodity prices are good, interest rates are good, and input prices like diesel are very reasonable at the moment.”
        Some of the issues raised that were of concern to the 200 delegates included soaring electricity prices, a lack of telecommunications coverage in country areas, as well as the Murray Darling Basin water buy back, all of which were addressed across three panel sessions…

        Barnaby Joyce’s address talked up the farming sector, but also included an ultimatum for people against genetically modified crops to take off their cotton undies and shirts, as he urged “sensible” talk around the issue, warning “If we get it wrong, people will die.”
        “The seeds from GM cotton are also fed to cattle, so you better stop eating beef too,” Mr Joyce said.
        http://www.northerndailyleader.com.au/story/4804462/farms-look-at-future/?cs=12

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          Len

          Those fools tried at the recent NSW National Party Conference the same drivel and were soundly beaten.

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    Dennis

    In the NRMA “Open Road” members magazine for July/August 2017 is a feature article “The Future Is Here” and all about electric vehicles and cars without drivers. A contributor wrote about her ownership of four electric cars over the past five years – a Nissan Leaf, Tesla Model S, Tesla Model X and a Renault Kangoo ZE electric van for work and personal use.

    In short she is so excited about the new world of renewables producing electricity and not needing to call into petrol stations. Her excitement is obvious from her glowing words of support however, this is the extent of her knowledge and understanding – “It takes me just a few seconds to plug in when I get home. I leave for work the next day with a full charge gained from the sunshine on the solar panels on top of my house.”

    Fantastic break through in extreme Green technology apparently, solar panels that operate overnight !!!

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      Dennis

      Joshua Dowling, National Motoring Editor, News Corp Australia Network
      January 16, 2017 10:00pm
      Subscriber only
      THE plug has all but been pulled on electric cars in Australia.

      After being touted as the next big thing in motoring, sales of electric cars have almost come to a halt in Australia after more than five years of experimental models.

      Official sales figures show just 219 electric cars were reported as sold last year or just 0.0018 per cent of the total market — a staggering drop of 90 per cent from the previous year.

      Indeed, electric car sales are so unpopular, Nissan and Mitsubishi have stopped stocking their electric hatchbacks, the Nissan Leaf and Mitsubishi iMiev, because they struggled to move them even after slashing prices.

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    MarkMcD

    “It just sounds like people are scared. It just sounds like people are afraid. And the people who are afraid in general — with due respect, and I am now one of them — are older.”

    Is it just how I see things or is this the exact opposite of what is happening?

    Surely if the older ones were ‘scared’ they’d be pumping the AGW Religion harder than the young? Sceptics (older folk) seem to be smoothing the fears of the world by assuring them there’s no evidence the alarmist doomsday views are real, NOT getting all fearful about the future.

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      el gordo

      .’…NOT getting all fearful about the future.’

      Global cooling has begun and I’m not afraid, probably because the excitement of watching abrupt climate change has distracted me from the obvious inherent dangers.

      A healthy scepticism won’t slow down the AGW juggernaut, we have to scream from the rooftops that the end is nigh and back it up with believable science.

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    Ruairi

    You all should really listen to Bill Nye,
    After all he is the Science Guy,
    I’ve thought all night,
    And think he’s right,
    And now I see no reason to deny.

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    ArizonaSamOrland

    The next time some magic gas barking hillbilly tells you the cold bath conduction chilling the planet is a giant heater, have them show you a single instance in all thermodynamics, of someone putting a light warmed rock into a cold bath conduction chilling it, and introducing more and more refracting insulation into the bath, mixing it in so less and less available warming light reaches the rock
    makes the temperature of the rock go up. When that happens Green House gases can warm the planet. Till it does, hicks who can’t successfully tell you the name of the law of physics governing atmospheric temperature or the name of the chart of specific heat holding capacities of gases, – and what law that is part of – are telling you a cold light blocking bath, is heating a light warmed rock by letting less and less light reach it and warm it.

    That is what they believe and they believe it to the point they don’t care if all scientific discourse is derailed so people don’t see the transparent fraud etched in every single word of ”magic gas dun made the sky git hot YaW!!”

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      ArizonaSam,

      We discussed this at length on the blog years ago. You may find this post helpful.
      http://joannenova.com.au/2011/05/so-what-is-the-second-darn-law/

      Be careful, there is a semantic trap in the second law arguments. It trips up many.

      No one is suggesting that CO2 generates heat, only that it slows the loss of energy to space much the same as a blanket does not “warm you” at night, but it stops you getting colder.

      Because gases that emit also absorb, it is quite possible for CO2 to cool the air in the stratosphere but warm it in the denser, lower troposphere. High up, the emitted photons take energy to space. Lower down, the emitted photons can’t escape because they strike other GHG molecules first.

      Jo

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    Egor the One

    It’s Bill Nye, The BS Guy !

    What a Clown. His big contribution to science is running around calling skeptics his most used favorite word ‘Deniers’ !
    That is it, his ‘proof’ in a nutshell. If you refuse to blindly follow CAGW/CACC idiocy, then you are a ‘denier’ .

    just a Gravy train freeloader, wanting to take point of the gloBull warmer mob and lead his pitch fork charge against we, the deniers.

    I wonder if his bow tie spins around ? If it does, then all he needs is a bright red nose and a MacDonald’s hat !

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    Mike

    Sounds like Nye was trying to paraphrase Max Planck:

    “A new scientific truth does not triumph by convincing its opponents and making them see the light, but rather because its opponents eventually die out, and a new generation grows up that is familiar with it.”

    My contributions to the “new generation” are, I’m happy to say, getting through high school and college with skepticism and BS detectors intact and functional.

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    Amber

    Finally a prediction from the science fiction comedy guy that is accurate .
    He won’t leave much of a carbon footprint either .
    Good thing Nye hasn’t given up his day job.

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