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SA Blackout: a grid crippled by complexity

South Australia suffered it’s fifth blackout in five months last week. The AEMO report on that incident came out today. There are lots of faults, errors and small problems, and one overriding theme — it’s too complex:

  1. AEMO (Grid market managers) thought they’d have more wind power. It fell to only 2% of “total output.”
  2. There was a computer glitch which “load shed” more people than necessary. Oops. SA Power Network apologized today.
  3. Demand was higher than expected.
  4.  The gas plant generators at Port Lincoln were ““not available due to a communications system problem”. (Whatever that means.) That was 73MW out of action.
  5. One turbine at Torrens Gas plant was out for maintenance (120MW gone). Another was running 50MW low because of the heat. (Seriously, these machines operate at hundreds of degrees and work at 35C but not so well at 42C? (Or whatever it was). Color me skeptical. Perhaps some grid engineers can comment and tell us if this is normal?

So in a modern renewable grid we have variations in supply and demand that are of the order of the average grid load and at the whim of The Wind. What could possibly go wrong?

Finally the SA Liberals are talking about maybe, possibly, could be, saving the old coal plant:

Opposition Leader Steven Marshall said on Friday the Government must do everything it could to “press the pause button” on the demolition of Port Augusta’s Northern Power Station and take nothing off the table in its quest for energy security.

“Maybe the infrastructure at Port Augusta can be used for new technology, what we’re saying is don’t take anything off the table,” he said.

The SA Energy Minister is still promising “dramatic intervention” but not saying what that will be.

The SA Premier is blaming AEMO – the market operator.

“Mr Weatherill said on Thursday he had concluded the state had been abandoned by the national electricity market and he was preparing plans for SA “to take control of our own future”.”

The Solution?

The word is the solution might be an interconnector (hands up who has a spare billion dollars?) but the SA gov is still hoping for a a new gas plant and has offered the carrot of a bulk deal with the public sector for who ever wins that tender.

Independent Senator Nick Xenophon said the State Government must underwrite a new gas power station to deliver energy security and lower prices for consumers.

Why should taxpayers have to pay for the energy and also pay for the investment risk? It doesn’t have to be this way. Gradually the complex, fragile grid “needs” more and more centralized control. Pretty soon the government will set supply, demand, pay for generation (and compensate for non-generation), and underwrite the investments — it’s that creeping communist-style takeover of our energy.

Weatherill talks about “controlling their own future” but even Malcolm Turnbull can see the absurdity of that. SA is more dependent than ever on brown coal in Victoria.

AEMO:  full report on the SA Feb 2017 Blackout

h.t Pat, David B

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Rating: 9.2/10 (79 votes cast)
SA Blackout: a grid crippled by complexity, 9.2 out of 10 based on 79 ratings

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232 comments to SA Blackout: a grid crippled by complexity

  • #
    toorightmate

    Everyone seems to have forgotten that SA is just not dependent on other states for power.
    SA is entirely dependent on other states for money to pay for that power (and most other things) – via GST.

    401

    • #
      DaveR

      What happens to SA when Victoria turns off the interconnect – about this time next year?

      191

      • #
        MudCrab

        That’s easy, Dave,

        Premier Weatherill shrugs, becomes Leader of the Opp after the March state election and spends the next four years loudly blaming the Liberals for failing to provide essential services to the SA public.

        Variation? Post election Weatherill gets given a gold plated job overseas at taxpayer expense where he spends the next four year loudly supporting everything the Leader of the Opps says about the Liberals failing to provide essential services to the SA public.

        161

  • #
    el gordo

    ‘— it’s that creeping communist-style takeover of our energy.’

    Its that creeping pseudo Marxist takeover of our energy, the Beijing communists already own most of our poles and wires.

    211

  • #
    cedarhill

    The best solution from the Greens is for everyone to simply buy several hamster exercise wheels, hook each to a generator, put them in parallel, put enough hamsters in them to generate all the electricity you need and make sure you feed them lots of biomass. The waste products can be recycled into the biomass generation system (conveyed by teams of hamsters, of course).
    It’s perfect. No grid needed at all. There remains the issue of determining how many of these systems are needed to run an Airbus, but not to worry, the UJ Met Office is on the job.

    162

    • #
      Ted O'Brien

      No, not hamsters.

      You put Greenies on the treadmill.

      Then we will have turned full circle. Soon be time to reinvent the Steam Engine.

      331

      • #
        Hivemind

        You don’t think greenies are ever going to do something, do you? It’s all about virtue signalling and demanding that other people do something.

        There’s never going to be a greenie running in a hamster wheel. That’s your job. The greenies are the ones with the whip.

        70

    • #
      David Maddison

      Here is a hamster power plant.

      https://youtu.be/ZNa-JHPnpgM

      101

      • #
        David

        Brilliant [the idea not the light]. There is an obvious opening to go into mass production and sell them to the Crow Eaters at an outrageous price.

        Mind you we may need them here in the Islamic Socialist Workers Paradise of Victoriastan shortly if “Dangerous Dan” continues on his current path.

        10

      • #
        PeterPetrum

        Hilarious! Producing 1haM of power at 2Hz. Just the job for SA, better than the nothing they had in the “0nce-in-100-year” storm.

        131

  • #
    Dave Ward

    Seriously, these machines operate at hundreds of degrees and work at 35C but not so well at 42C?

    I’m not a grid engineer, but any type of combustion engine will be less efficient at higher temperatures. The air is less dense, and so will not be able to support the combustion of as much fuel, hence lower power output. That’s why aircraft will have lower payload capacity, and need longer runways in hot countries than they would in the arctic. To give you an example – I used to fly a microlight and on a hot (UK) summer day I could get an initial rate of climb of about 600ft per minute, yet on a crisp winters morning it would be nearer 900ft per minute.

    Most modern turbo-charged vehicle engines now have intercoolers (they should be more correctly called “aftercoolers”) to lower the temperature of the air entering the engine after it’s been compressed, for the same reason. But I suspect that power station turbines ingest so much air that cooling it is neither practical or cost effective?

    250

    • #
      Ted O'Brien

      For interest. I recall that for each furnace, serving a 500 megawatt generator at Liddell, there were 12,000 hp of fans bringing the air in and another 12,000 hp taking the exhaust away.

      Another item comes to mind. When turbocharger technology advanced to becoming affordable on Diesel engines, one of the advantages was no power loss at up to 10,000 ft of altitude, because the gain for the exhaust compensated for the loss at the intake.

      120

    • #
      Yonniestone

      Cold air makes power ask any racing mechanic, also ‘dry ice’ the solid form of CO2 is used in the air intake to lower temperatures for better fuel combustion.

      101

    • #
      Rod Stuart

      The output for an industrial gas turbine is typically stated in ISO power.
      That is at an inlet temperature of 15C.
      As the inlet temperature rises, the output is diminished.
      The converse is true as well, but the control systems usually place a limit on output which corresponds to Tin between 0 and 10 C.
      Back in the day, in the wilds of Northern BC, we operated a GE LM 2500 SERIAL NUMBER ONE! It’s rated horsepower was 25,000, and it didn’t have any control system upper limit.
      I remember one day back in the early 70′s when she was putting out 38,000 HP at an ambient temperature of minus 48!
      When these machines are expected to operate at temperatures higher than about 25C they are equipped with evaporative coolers, or some means of reducing Tin.
      I have no idea whether the Pelican Point machines are so equipped or not. Since they require demin for the HRSG, they probably have sufficient water for this purpose, but only if the air inlet filter house is fitted with a cooling system.

      50

    • #
      mark

      Turbines are a complex and simple device at the same time. Simple, suck in air, compress it put fuel in and expand it. That expanding air pushes through another fan that drives the compressor. Straight through cycle! The complex, I have lost the ability to read and understand calculus..but there are three equations that fully explain the process. However, mass air flow and turbine inlet temp are the two most important items in a turbine.
      Hot air is less dense, humid air is less dense, low atmospheric pressure is less dense. The lower the density the lower power is available less air to burn fuel. High temp means less fuel required therefore limiting power output before THE most important turbine inlet temp is reached. Exceed this thermal limit and things start to grow in all the wrong places, things start to lose strength and, eventually, the innards start looking like a blob of molten steel.

      So, yes, 42C has a considerable hit to power availability from a turbine. Manufacturers derate turbines to match attainable power output for a given location regardless of weather conditions…Obviously, some one stuffed up on design parameters for expected weather for the mendicant state. Typical!

      30

      • #
        Rod Stuart

        That is correct, except why do you suspect anyone “stuffed up”.
        In 1997 the owner invited proposals for a combined cycle plant on a competitive bid basis, including guaranteed performance characteristics.
        In assessing the bids, the owner accepted the ABB proposal.
        Once the project was commissioned (in 1999 I think), performance testing proved that the output met or exceeded that specified in the bid.
        Measuring performance accurately at any set of operating conditions is sufficient to determine performance at any other conditions.
        “It is what it is”, period.

        20

  • #
    PeterS

    I can’t wait to see what happens when Hazelwood is closed down. Perhaps we will see a race as to which state blacks out first during certain peak periods – Victoria or SA?

    290

    • #
      Ted O'Brien

      Hazelwood must not be allowed to close. Pressure must be put on the Victorian government to immediately remove the imposts that make Hazelwood unprofitable.

      No trust should be put in any price forecasts coming from the government. Look instead at the prices we are seeing, and know that this will get worse.

      220

      • #
        PeterS

        We can’t stop the closure because the global warming madness is rampant within both major parties. Despite the fact many other countries are building coal fired power stations some of which are the new generation supercritical or ultra-supercritical types, we are closing down our old ones but not replacing them with any type of base load power generation system. The MSM and public education institutions here are predominantly to blame. They have been pushing the propaganda of AGW for too long now, so much so it’s impossible to counteract them even with the truth. The only real way to wake the public up to the facts is we must suffer much more with more frequent and longer blackouts. The closure of Hazelwood and others need to proceed so that the public can learn the lesson the hard way. It’s really the only practical way to put an end to the madness.

        362

      • #
        Robdel

        I disagree. Close Hazelwood and cause huge power crises in Victoria and SA. It is the only thing that will produce the utter destruction of LabGreens. Otherwise the gradual destruction of power sources in favour of wind will be the analogue of the slowly boiling lobster.

        271

        • #
          PeterS

          So true. The boiling frog syndrome has been working so well for the benefit of the alarmists. We need a blast furnace under the pot to wake up the public so they can jump out of the water before it’s too late. Need a wind tower collapsing to smash the pot while we are at it.

          130

          • #

            can people stop dissing frogs. This is a nice metaphore that illustrates a point but it is actually a myth.

            61

            • #
              Greg Cavanagh

              I admit, I’ve never considered it one way or another.

              Professor Hutchison says: “The legend is entirely incorrect! The ‘critical thermal maxima’ of many species of frogs have been determined by several investigators. In this procedure, the water in which a frog is submerged is heated gradually at about 2°F per minute. As the temperature of the water is gradually increased, the frog will eventually become more and more active in attempts to escape the heated water. If the container size and opening allow the frog to jump out, it will do so.”

              101

            • #
              PeterS

              I know it’s a myth but I was using it in the context of an anecdote, which can be based on a fictional event but still illustrates the point.

              50

            • #
              Hivemind

              Perhaps we can create a new metaphor: boiling cubicle farm workers,for instance.

              Which will be very apt when we can’t power their aircon.

              20

        • #
          Ted O'Brien

          It will not be confined to SA and Victoria. We will all have higher prices and blackouts.

          70

    • #
      Shauno

      Notice how they are closing it after summer. Deliberate timing to avoid the peak power periods no idea whats going to happen next summer. Maybe it will be reopened opened by then after blackouts in winter.

      251

      • #
        James Bradley

        No, Hazelwood will close with the arrogance of the settled science which will see it’s chimneys demolished rather than mothballed. Be a great day out for the current Vic Gov. Tickets will be sold, fanfares will sound and the charges will be detonated with live coverage attesting to the death of coal. The Greens will go wild, the unions will love it (maybe not the ETU) and Malcolm and Bill will love it.

        402

      • #
        crakar24

        Not so fast, the SA demand during cold still winter mornings usuallly challenges the SA supply we wont have to wait long.

        110

        • #
          David Maddison

          Good. I can’t wait. Let them reap what they’ve sown. I’m in VIC and will suffer as well due to grid failure but I’ve got batteries and a generator.

          100

        • #
          Analitik

          Yep, the massive price spikes in July last year are a case of this. Summer may be the electrical demand peak but in winter, gas heating competes with electricity generation and, at times, there may not be enough for both.

          20

      • #
        Hivemind

        “Maybe it will be reopened opened by then after blackouts in winter.”

        Not a chance. The rush to start demolishing it will be obscene.

        20

    • #
      David-of-Cooyal-in-Oz

      G’day Peter,
      I’ve been wondering about just what has to be done to close down Hazelwood. Is it a staged process or does some one just pull a single plug on March 31? If the former, does anyone have the timetable?
      Cheers,
      Dave B

      30

      • #
        Analitik

        If they have any notion of sense, they will stage the retirement, taking one unit off at a time with at least a day between each unit shutdown. This way system effects can be evaluated to some degree.

        But knowing the Andrew’s government, there will be a big media presentation and fanfare as the plug is pulled in one go. Hopefully, it will be a beautiful, calm hot day in South Australia and Jay Weatherill will make a panic phone call asking for Hazelwood to be plugged back in.

        100

  • #

    “…abandoned by the national electricity market…”

    Similar problem with St George last season. We were abandoned by the National Rugby League scoreboard. Also, there is strong evidence of Russian hackers based in Cronulla. Also, we sucked.

    160

  • #
    EyesWideOpen

    5 blackouts in 5 months! I thought they were Solar Panels … not Lunar Panels … maybe this is just the new normal for South Australians now that the Greenies have calibrated South Australia’s menstrual cycle. Can’t wait till they shut down the rest of the Latrobe Valley in Victoria, that will be a dooooosie. Our country is the laughing stock of the ‘first world’, and nobody is laughing harder at us than India and China. Maybe Trump can save the US, but here in Australia we are just about dead by politician already. I’ve given up on our political process, it is just doing more harm than good and there is no conservative party to vote for anymore … RIP Australia, it was good whilst it lasted.

    422

  • #
    Richard Ilfeld

    Sorry to be perhaps a bit off topic, but being in the states I don’t necessarily see your politics clearly.
    What I do see is the failure of leftist politics when it becomes litmus test politics.
    In the traditional “big tent” theory of politics, it was possible to a variety of zealots along with
    some pragmatists in a more or less centrist party. Now, it seems, two trends are taking over.
    The moderates are being driven out our underground and the full set of disparate beliefs must be adhered to for full membership;
    and more jobs and roles are becoming political and requiring a full party loyalty test.

    There are still professionals, whom are called upon in crisis, yet reviled for essentially political failing over which the have had no control.
    They must try to fix the consequences of political error while being scapegoated for same. No fun for anyone, so the quality and competence of
    the discredited worker bees erodes, as does the performance of the system.

    Clear headed people should be able to see the common thread between the SA power problems, the California Dam issue, the Flint Michigan water problem,
    the British power grid, and host of other situations.

    The replacement of the technically competent with politically reliable has not been a good thing for society. It has been a good thing for the left, however
    as they have spent a lot of time riding various crisis situations to emotional yet irrational consequences.

    One might think that discarding a functional system in favor of a pipe dream has no positive outcome.

    But, in a devil’s bargain, the scarcity and outages enhance the power and control of the folks who caused them. As cult members are immune to criticism
    from outside given the nature of their internal affirmation systems, they may talk enough to settle the nerves of the sheep, while proceeding with actions
    that maintain control.

    I’d not bet on any mothballed or marked for destruction plants coming back online soon, though I’d bet on endless talk to give the illusion of action.

    I maintain local backup to cover for our odd hurricane here in Florida US; And we have local ordinances mandating same for groceries, gas stations, and hospitals.
    Doing this as insurance for natural disasters is “insurance”. Doing it because the authorities can’t provide reliable services is behind a lot of our internal migration in the US. What’s funny is even the elites eventually get the message, like the tech firm in socially sympatico CA that has to co-locate its server farm in another jurisdiction that permits it. We’ve been ‘hollowing out’ some our our liberal states due to liberal governance.

    Has the SA out-migration started yet?

    161

    • #
      Ted O'Brien

      Has the emigration started yet? Probably. Even before the blackouts major factories were closing. Tasmania, hijacked by The Greens 34 years ago knows all about that.

      Richard, the scenario you describe is visible here. It is the product of an education system in which we have allowed Marxists too much influence.

      We are approaching a situation where half the electorate believes in the Command Economy. Just see the talk by the South Australian government of solving this mess by nationalising their power industry.

      No coal stations will be mothballed. They will be quickly demolished to ensure that they cannot be reopened to provide cheap power in the new, high priced electricity market. Competition will be rendered impractical.
      We are hoping that Trump might save us. Trump, Dr John Bates and other good people.

      210

      • #
        Graeme No.3

        One of SA’s problems is the ignorance and illogical thought processes of the local politicians. Thus the leader of the opposition wants the Pt. Augusta power stations re-opened but doesn’t seem to realize that it would involve restarting the Leigh Creek coal mine, building up stock (and probably work on the railroad). Then the power station has had some equipment removed (interstate) and the rest will need maintenance or replacement. And you will need experienced workers as some of the previous will be elsewhere, not in SA.

        The State Treasurer cannot understand why Pelican Point No. 2 didn’t just start up and prevent the blackout, because he doesn’t know the difference between an OCGT and a CCGT. The latter takes longer to start, probably 4 hours to full output v 20-30 minutes for the OCGT, and is designed for continuous operation. On/off operation causes stress cracking and corrosion in cooling equipment. There is also a little matter of money, why should a private company lose money to bail out stupid politicians? It was shut down in the first place because renewables made long term running impossible. Now WeatherDILL is going to announce a new CCGT plant in a year or so by guaranteeing them a set amount of the market. As that is exactly why Pelican Point was shut down, and is only partly running now because AEMO is making sure they get enough capacity (for some of it) to run, what will happen when this NEW plant starts? The old one will shut down permanently. After the next election the SA public will find that they will be paying more for no benefit.

        220

        • #
          Analitik

          I’m waiting for the South Australian government to introduce capacity payments and somehow spin it as not being due to the unreliability of the renewables.

          I’ll be sending my proposal for renewables to bid and receive additional payments to Josh Frydenberg this weekend.

          40

          • #
            Graeme No.3

            Why not call it the Spanish method as politicians don’t want to be pioneers.

            I would suggest you also add the recommendation that he keeps the fines at $65 instead of Large-scale Generation Certificates at $90.
            Think about it, apart from the money going into government coffers.

            20

    • #
      Curious George

      An outsider’s advice: replace the Government.

      In the U.S., Trump with all his glaring faults got grudgingly elected.

      171

      • #
        jorgekafkazar

        And in the US, the Socialist moles in the NSA are in open rebellion, releasing “leaks” of information about the Administration and its nominees obtained by illegal wire-taps and other espionage. The Socialist press (is there any other kind, these days?) prints all the leaks uncritically, as if established fact. Who will leak the leakers?

        211

      • #
        Ernest Bush

        Trump was not grudgingly elected. The electoral system functioned as it was intended in our Constitution and the voters in almost all counties, including a bunch in California, delivered a stomp against the Democrats. Hundreds of counties the Dems thought they had sewn up went Republican. In the end only 74 counties went for Democrats. That left over 3,000 going for Trump. This was reflected in the Electoral College, whose votes actually determine the election results. The Democrats claimed as usual that the popular vote was the one that counted and that Trump actually lost by two million votes. This is a load of BS. The Electoral College system keeps those 74 very populous counties from determining what happens to the other 3,000 plus. Of course, the Dems want to abolish the electoral system, but the rest of the country isn’t stupid. There will never be enough states voting to ratify the required amendment. In addition, Trump pulled many Republican Senators and Governors into office with him.

        Meanwhile the Democrats have been slowly losing the state governments to Republicans. There has been a move to convene a convention of states to change the wording of the Constitution to insure that states’ rights are restored that liberal Supreme Courts have eroded. The founding fathers knew better than we do to give the federal government the power to determine what each state is allowed to do on a host of issues. It’s why we are so far down the road to Socialism right now. If those changes are made, then you will here the Progressive Dems scream ever louder.

        Also, don’t believe most of what the main stream media have to say about the Trump administration. So far, he has put a hold on the enforcement of many EPA regulations, approved the two pipeline projects that Obama sat on, and removed many restrictions that were placed on coal production and use. Not bad for a first month

        00

    • #
      crakar24

      Richard,

      SA is a very insular population, you could have an Ebola outbreak here and natural quarantine would ensure it did not spread to the rest of the country.

      They will sit here in the dark rather than move to Victoria.

      100

  • #

    Five blackouts in five Months ….. in South Australia, and it has nothing to do with Wind Power?????

    Hmm!

    Name me any other State in Australia which has had five blackouts on this scale.

    And South Australia only consumes 6.5% of the total Australian power, and they can’t even keep that small percentage on line.

    Even right now, wind in South Australia is only managing 250MW or a Capacity Factor of 15.6% Thank heavens everyone in South Aus is tucked up tight in bed, eh!

    Between 9AM and 10.30AM this morning (Thursday 16Feb) the total wind power generation from 18 Wind Plants with a Nameplate of 1600MW and around 800 plus individual wind towers was, well, it was so close to zero, it was barely discernible from zero. Less than five towers with their blades turning.

    How can you operate a grid effectively if you have no idea when wind will or will not be supplying power?

    And this problem in South Australia has nothing to do with wind power.

    Don’t make me laugh!

    Tony.

    663

    • #
      Yonniestone

      Tony I recall you mentioning how much, or little, air conditioners use in relation to total grid power consumption as this idea seems to be used as a scare tactic by the greens to shame people into using fossil/abiotic fueled power, interesting to see what happens when the ‘luxury’ of air con is removed from high rise buildings eh?

      182

      • #

        This is long, so sorry about that.

        Yonniestone, and everyone else too: (my bolding here)

        …..interesting to see what happens when the ‘luxury’ of air con is removed from high rise buildings eh?

        In those high rise buildings, (and take a look at the skyline of any city, especially Capitals like Sydney) it’s most definitely not a luxury. It’s an absolute necessity.

        Even though it’s called air conditioning, people automatically associate that with cooling in Summer, but here it’s the process of getting ‘conditioned’ air into, around and out of those high rise buildings.

        They are totally and utterly closed environments. Go above the first floor in any building and try to open a window. You can’t. They are sealed, and in most cases are part of the structure itself.

        Other than the revolving door entrance on the ground floor, there are no openings at all to the outside.

        Whether it be a workplace (most usually) or a living place, they are closed. The only way to get air into ….. and out of those buildings is with those huge units on the roof of every high rise. Those units in the main circulate breathing air into those buildings, and out of them, the only source of breathable air.

        Those units CANNOT be turned off, BY LAW. They have to run 24 hours of every day.

        On the way in the air is conditioned, true, but in the main, those units circulate breathing air into and out of those buildings, so the fans are running ALL THE TIME.

        The inside temp of those buildings is set at a constant temperature, so it seems cool in Summer and warm in Winter, when compared to the outside ambient temperature. The only thing that changes is that on two days a year, the cycle is changed from Summer to Winter, and then back again to Summer, reversing the cycle, but it’s basically the same. The fans work all the time, and when the temperature reaches the upper limit (Summer) or the lower limit, (Winter) the compressors kick in and cool or warm that breathing air taking it back to the required level, or keeping it close to that level, cycling around the set temperatures. (upper and lower settings, the same but differing cycles for Summer and Winter) Those compressors, huge, are the big power consumer.

        In Summer, everyone turns up for work, and fires up everything electrical in the building, hence warming the inside. Then there’s the glass in each building acting a a focus for heat, so the inside of the building heats up even more, as the outside ambient rises, heating the inside up even further, hence those compressors run even longer.

        In Winter, same building, same workforce, same work going on. However, the ambient outside is now lower, and there’s no real focus of heat inside, and while it still warms inside, it’s nowhere near as much as in the Summer, and the mid day tmeperature outside is closer to the inside setting, so the compressors, now on the heating cycle do not need to run anywhere near as much as they do in the Summer.

        Either way, those fans still keep turning recirculating the air into and out of the building.

        So, you think I have made all this up as a convenient theory to explain something. Not so. Do this exercise.

        Go to this link, and hit the MW button at top right of the image there, and this shows a typical Summer work day load curve for power consumption, and note the bulge during working hours of that power consumption, how it rises from (around) 18000MW up to (in this case) 28000MW, and some days that can go up to and sometimes even beyond 30,000MW.

        Nearly all of that power consumed in that mid daylight period is those high rises.

        Again, think I’m making it up.

        Then take this link, which shows a typical Winter work day. (again hit the MW button) Same workplace, same work force, same work being done inside every one of those high rises. Note how there is now a dip in the middle of that power consumption load curve.

        In Summer, those compressors are working overtime, virtually every daylight hour, huge consumers of electricity, but in Winter, the ambient inside is now closer to the outside, so they don’t need to run as much.

        Still think I’m making it up, and using those load curves to conveniently explain things. Well those load curves have been similar in nature ever since electrical power started to come into use. They have never changed. Long long long before air conditioning units became available for use in private homes. They were always there in those high rise buildings, because air needed to be circulated inside them.

        Still think I’m making it up. Well take this link (again hit the MW button) and this shows the power consumption load curve for Christmas Day. Same mid Summer hot day. Only now there’s no work inside those high rises, so they don’t heat up as much. No Industry no Commerce, so virtually only Residential power consumption, probably the largest single day of residential power consumption during the year, because EVERYONE is at home, and no one is at work.

        Note that, even for a typical hot mid Summer day, that power consumption more closely resembles the Winter load curve with a dip in the middle, and also note the huge huge drop in power consumption, now down to barely 20,000MW, a drop of 8000MW for just that one day.

        Turn off the power to inner city CBD areas, and every one of those buildings becomes an uninhabitable dead zone.

        I’m certain no one took any notice at all of the way South Australia staged those load shedding blackouts because they showed the map just once or twice, and as it appeared on the screen. my mind sent the message to ‘pay attention now Tony’. What they showed is the typical load shedding patterns. Progressively black out certain grid areas, one after the other, until the load comes down to the level they need it back to.

        ALL of those load shedded areas were residential suburbs, and at no stage, EVER, in any load shedding scenario, will they ever shut down the CBD and closely surrounding city environments. EVER.

        Again, go look at the Sydney skyline, and just ponder on how much power is needed for all that.

        Just for Sydney alone, it is (almost but not quite) DOUBLE the power consumption of the WHOLE STATE of South Australia. Just for Sydney. It’s the same for Melbourne, and also Brisbane to a slightly lesser degree.

        Power all of that, just for Sydney alone, for 24 hours of every day with renewables. As I said in my original Comment above.

        Don’t make me laugh.

        Tony.

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          Analitik

          They are totally and utterly closed environments. Go above the first floor in any building and try to open a window. You can’t. They are sealed, and in most cases are part of the structure itself.

          Yes, look at an older skyscraper like the Empire State Building and compare it with any modern tower. The older skyscrapers predated the production of large tempered glass panes and airconditioning hence they are concrete walled with small windows that can be opened. An old 1950′s movie or TV series like the original Superman will show skyscraper staff sweating with fans and open windows during the summer.

          Modern skyscrapers have large tempered glass panes bonded to the floor/ceiling of each floor with no mechanism for them to be opened – at all.

          Air conditioning load in a modern skyscraper (and large shopping complexes) forms an immense portion of non-industrial load (far more than that save by conversion from incadescent lighting to flouro tubes, CFCL and LED) and the internal temperatures would skyrocket in very short order if the air conditioning was turned off

          90

        • #
          tom0mason

          Thanks Tony well said.
          I may have to borrow some of this to give others some perspective on the real world and how it works.

          80

        • #
          Yonniestone

          Thanks for the excellent reply Tony, I’m stealing this also to support any arguments against renewables vs the power grid, your comment should go viral.

          111

        • #
          GD

          Thank you, Tony, for that comprehensive explanation in real world terms. I’ll also use this to discuss the lunacy of renewables. As Yonniestone said, your comment should go viral.

          50

        • #
          EyesWideOpen

          Tony … some Greenie might read your post and be confused that the real world actually works on calculation and logic. Your post could be very triggering, indeed, so you get a +1 like from me just for screwing with a greenies mind :P

          00

        • #
          Russ Wood

          South Africa had this a few years ago with its ‘load shedding’ cycles. (Recently, this turned out to be a scam where ‘insiders’ bought up loads of fuel oil, to sell on at an inflated cost). The one other thing that blacking out a CBD does, apart from no aircon, is turn off all of the traffic lights. Result – monster traffic jams. A collegue of my wife’s said that it took about an hour to travel the 1.5 km from the motorway exit to the offices.

          00

    • #
      tom0mason

      With many small highly variable power generation plants come many, many computer control systems. Often these systems compound the physical difficulties of the highly variable power generation and distribution as the morass of computer programs all acting together are not necessarily in concert with each other.

      60

    • #
      bobl

      Actually that part might just be excess from the generators that keep the blades going to avoid bent shafts… no certainty that was wind power.

      10

  • #
    Richard Ilfeld

    Here’s a link to the migration trends in the states, backed with a little data:
    http://floornews.org/why-are-people-and-businesses-moving-from-blue-states-to-red-states/

    90

  • #
    RobK

    The complexity of the grid with renewables is a headache because they fluctuate wildly with large surges that have to penetrate deep into the grid looking for a load and forcing other machines to back off. Large distances are involved with associated line losses. Monitoring all this is involved. Both solar and wind generation are prone to fluctuate wildly over short cycles without notice. The effect is not much different to having very large erratic loads (slumps) appearing more or less randomly about the grid in different places. To cope with this reliably the grid requires significant redesign and beefing up. All added costs.

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  • #
    Turtle

    The left have always benefitted, historically, from crisis situations. It’s during wars that nationalisation and centralisation happen by necessity. In WWII, despite Churchill’s brilliant conservative leadership, the country voted him out in an instant once the war was over. That war nearly killed Britain, which was unprepared because of lefty pacifism and soft left in name only conservatives. Familiar? In the climate wars, the left have created dangerous energy instability, which they intend to exploit to nationalise the power system. While they sell the idea of “off the grid” to subsidised solar users, they use wind that requires more centralised control of the grid.

    Shifty and wrong.

    171

  • #
    turnedounice

    In 2001 as I was walking to Westminster Hall to hear the (Labour) Science Minister, Lord David Sainsbury (Psychology and History degree) talk abut their Environmental Programme, I was waylaid by a group from Friends of the Earth. Their task was to tell me how wonderful the EU-wide ‘Virtual Power Station’ would be windmills and interconnects.

    I told the nice young man that it could never work. To be CO2 free we’d need 80% nuclear power plus windmills with pump storage. Two FoE harpies took him away, presumably for re-education.

    The Marxist have done their experiment and it has failed: time to try a realistic engineering solution (which does exist).

    PS There is near zero warming from CO2; that science was faked in 1976.

    280

  • #
    oeman50

    JoNova:”Perhaps some grid engineers can comment and tell us if this is normal?”

    I would not expect the heat to affect just one generating unit (Torrens has 8) to the tune of 50 MW unless something else was wrong. High ambient temperatures can affect those units in 2 ways, the fans may be the limiting factor in pulling combustion air through the boilers and the cooling water may reduce the efficiency and the power output. So I would not be surprised to see a 50 MW power total deficit across ALL of the units, but not just one. Possibly the news story got it wrong, wouldn’t be the first time I have seen that.

    190

  • #

    “these machines operate at hundreds of degrees and work at 35C but not so well at 42C”

    You’d think it wouldn’t make much difference, but unlike aircraft turbines which are derated at SL and therefore have throttle reserves which can produce design power up to fairly high density altitudes. Stationary gas turbine outputs are rated at Sea Level for a standard day. At 45C inlet temperature, the shaft output could be as much as 20% lower than the plant’s design rating for a standard day’s density altitude which is Seal level(1013.25hPa and 15C). Regardless, the Engineers usually design the station in such a way as to handle the proposed design load at whatever the expected max peak atmospheric temperature for the location might be. Seems like they were asking more from the original design for the conditions than could be expected under the inlet conditions at the plant. Smells like an excuse of convenience.

    Still, it looks like they politically continue to cling to the broken pieces of their crippled life rafts, adrift and separated from any form of real physics or Engineering logic at scale; chanting a glassy eyed prayer to the medieval god of faint hope.

    -the old man
    NotOnMyWatch.com

    161

    • #
      Another Ian

      “Then there is hope. But hope is not a strategy”

      E.M. Smith

      60

    • #
      Rod Stuart

      Close, but no cigar.
      A combined cycle facility such as PP is sold at a rated output, and that output is as you say at ISO conditions.
      Depending upon whether or not it has some means of air inlet cooling, it will also have a graph in the O&M manual displaying the output one can expect at various ambient conditions.
      And yes, that does vary significantly with temperature, pressure, and humidity.

      30

  • #
    Kim

    The solution is quite simple – go off grid. Use solar power via domestic solar solar cells to charge domestic batteries to power domestic lights and electrical equipment. Use public solar cells to do the same for street lights.

    226

    • #
      KinkyKeith

      And who’s going to be able to afford all of that?

      250

    • #
      David-of-Cooyal-in-Oz

      Kim,
      That won’t help you get fuel from your blacked out local petrol station, or even let you into the supermarket to buy dry food. Our local businesses had to close as they couldn’t pump fuel, or process even cash transactions.
      Cheers,
      Dave B

      270

      • #
        Russ Wood

        After the last lot, almost all South African supermarkets and petrol stations have emergency generators. We don’t have in our Johannesburg complex – but since there were FIVE one-hour power outages in the last week, maybe we should!

        00

    • #
      RexAlan

      You can’t do that in an apartment block.

      110

    • #
      el gordo

      Kim we have reason to believe that CO2 doesn’t cause global warming, so as a matter of urgency we need to stop wasting taxpayers money on folly.

      182

    • #
      Hivemind

      You do know that your domestic solar panels won’t deliver enough output to do that, don’t you? Count the number of panels on your roof, then count the power you consume. Air con, heating in winter, stove, computers, TVs………

      No, you don’t have enough panels on your roof to do all that, let alone storing “extra” power to charge a battery.

      30

  • #
    Mark M

    Now the same traitorous Oz politicians who brought us this crisis, who called those who opposed them ‘deniers’, who sold Australian sovereign rights to the UN for a handful of beans, now talk about a national energy plan?

    Too late.

    As for any politicians who have ever believed in global warming, or supported the carbon tax, or a carbon-constrained economy, there is no hope for them.

    They are either too stupid or incompetent to be taken seriously.

    Merely recanting, at this late stage, won’t be enough.

    Make their lives hell too, just as they wished a diminished life on you.
    . . .
    These people have made an enemy of me.

    I want accountability.

    180

    • #
      el gordo

      ‘I want accountability.’

      Yes, its agreed, in this war of words we take no prisoners, but we’ll continue to name and shame them at every opportunity.

      As we are looking down the track a bit, the regions feel like they have been left out of the infrastructure loop. Its all city centric and quite frankly we are over it, a pox on both their houses.

      ‘More than half of Queenslanders believe the regions are being short-changed when it comes to investment in jobs-creating infrastructure.

      ‘An exclusive Galaxy poll for The Courier-Mail found 54 per cent of people believed the Queensland Government disproportionately skewed infrastructure investment towards the southeast corner at the expense of other parts of the state.’

      Courier Mail

      20

  • #
    Mike Murphy

    The ALP’s “Light on the Hill” is getting dimmer.

    80

  • #
    Neville

    The answer is very, very simple. Build a new coal fired station and then we know there will be reliable cheaper power for another 50 years at least.
    Even Dr Hansen called a belief in S&W as silly as believing in the Tooth fairy and the Easter bunny.
    IOW it’s a fairy tale.
    Of course he also said that Paris COP 21 was BS and fra-d and called for more nuclear power use. And Hansen is the father of their CAGW garbage.
    Why oh bloody why would anyone spend endless billions $ year after year on silly fairy tale, crap energy that often drops to 2% or 5% or 7% of capacity?
    Surely an average 5 year old should be able to work this out? Every clueless pollie should read Lomborg’s accurate summary of Paris COP 21. Hansen’s correct , it is just BS and fra-d.

    http://www.lomborg.com/press-release-research-reveals-negligible-impact-of-paris-climate-promises

    180

  • #
    Neville

    Check out Prof Rosling’s history of the world video since we started using fossil fuels. Here it is for us to easily understand in just 5 mins. His TED talk is longer but please watch the first 5 minutes. Just imagine our donkey pollies trying to answer his very simple questions.
    How have we become so barking mad over the last few decades?

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jbkSRLYSojo&t=3s

    Here’s the TED talk to a huge audience comparing us to chimps.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sm5xF-UYgdg&t=178s

    40

    • #
      Neville

      Sorry my link to Rosling’s TED talk starts after several minutes. The first 5 minutes is the most interesting and very informative.
      BTW these ignorant answers occur all over the world and so called tertiary educated people are even worse.

      30

    • #
      Curious George

      Prof. Rosling uses a life expectancy in the first graph. Penicillin is not a direct product of fossil fuels.

      10

  • #
    David Maddison

    Are people familiar with DRED – Demand Response Enabling Device? It is a technology that allows the utility to shed load from your high power appliances such as air conditioners, electric hot water heaters and swimming pool pumps. Most air conditioners sold in Australia are now enabled for this requiring only the installation of a utility supplied signal receiving device which just has to be plugged in via an RJ45 connector or via four wires on a terminal block. When the wind stops blowing and the grid has inadequate power because, say, it is a hot day and all those selfish people have their air cons running, it can remotely turn off your air conditioner or reduce its power level to 50% or 75%. Various power companies such as Energex are offering a $150 to $500 incentive to install these devices on air conditioners.

    The interface standard is covered by Australian Standard AS4755.

    It is a disgrace that something like this is required in an energy rich (but no longer producing energy) country like Australia.

    I can see these devices being made compulsory in future as the electrical grid becomes further deliberately degraded.

    140

    • #
      Shauno

      They will have to pry my house keys from my cold dead hands before they install one of those at my place

      40

      • #
        Hivemind

        My power supplier couldn’t install a smart meter because my box was too small. I’ve just cancelled all thoughts of getting a bigger one.

        40

        • #
          David Maddison

          You are so lucky Hivemind, here in the People’s Republik of Victoria, “Smart Meter” installation was compulsory. I know of no one whose bills didn’t go up significantly once they got such s meter. Plus the consumer actually had to pay for the meters. In what other industry does the consumer actually have to pay for the cost of the device used to bill you?

          10

  • #
    Earl

    I have been pondering upon this most vexatious question of energy production.
    In my ruminations, I wondered how many wind turbines and solar panels are required as “back up” for Nuclear, Gas fired, and Coal fired power plants.
    It would appear that, none are required, as nuclear gas and coal are stand alone.
    Hmmmmm, now there is food for thought.

    110

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    Robber

    Get your submissions in to the Independent Review into the Future Security of the National Electricity Market by close of business on Tuesday 21 February 2017. Send them to: NEMSecurityReview@environment.gov.au

    From the Preliminary Report of the Independent Review (led by the Federal Govvernment’s Chief Scientist Dr Finkel):

    “The heart of the Review’s task is to find solutions to address the so-called energy trilemma – policies that simultaneously provide a high level of energy security and reliability, universal access to affordable energy services, and reduced emissions. This is easier said than done.”

    The big problem is that government policies, State and Federal, have focused only on reduced emissions. There are no policies to address electricity security, reliability or affordability.

    Governments must change their priorities to focus on the immediate problems of reliability and affordability. Stop the mad rush towards a 23.5% RET by 2020 that mandates wind/solar supplies increasing from 7% to 18% (that’s on average, so supply varying from 0 to 50% of demand depending on sun and wind).Therefore all of the coal and gas stations must be available, else we will have more and more instances of “load shedding (i.e. blackouts).”

    Conclusion: There should be a moratorium placed on achieving Australia’s 2020 23.5% renewables target until electricity supply security can be guaranteed.

    What do we want? Reliable and affordable electricity. NOW!!

    90

  • #

    The solution?

    The problem is not the complexity per se but the fact that the systems to run and manage it do a poor job of handling the complexity. Any solution has to start (but not end) with getting the system right.

    20

    • #

      If you folk can hold down the vomit, Hugh Sadler’s article in The Conversation actually complements and supports Jo’s comments under “The Solution”

      30

      • #
        Greg Cavanagh

        I haven’t read the linked article. I was trying to interpret the solution as mentioned by Jo.

        Jo talks about “the government” solution as being a new gas fired power station with funding and incentives from the government.
        Jo is critical of this as “the solution”.

        So, before I read this vomit from Hugh Sadler, can you confirm if Jo is for or against the stated solution?

        51

        • #

          sorry? You want me to confirm Jo’s inner thoughts or to repeat what she wrote?

          31

          • #
            Greg Cavanagh

            As far as I can tell, Jo is against “the solution”.
            So if I’m reading you correctly, you’re saying that Hugh Sadler supports Jo’s position.
            Ok,I think I’ve got it now.

            20

          • #
            Greg Cavanagh

            OK, and I’ve read the offending article.

            My conclusion is; a lot of talk, not a lot of meat to it. I didn’t really find any conclusion of his, other than “it’s complex” and NEM isn’t doing a very good job.

            20

            • #
              Hivemind

              The problem is that it isn’t actually very complicated. It is simply that the governments and regulatory authorities are in denial that the unreliables could in any way be at fault.

              Until they recognise that their policies are at the heart of this mess, we won’t get reliable, let alone affordable energy.

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          • #
            John McDougall

            Sorry Gee Aye, Sadler does not have anything relevant to say; in fact his article is content free.

            00

      • #

        As expected Hugh Sadler has the Solution all arse about.

        The solution is not a better grid or different rules. The Solution is to make the States responsible for their own power needs once again, just as the used to be responsible before 1990. That way they should install distributed coal or gas fired power plants. All National Electricity Market (NEM) power rules then unnecessary.

        Jo’s comments under the Solution are ironic.

        10

  • #
  • #
    pat

    16 Feb: GatewayPundit: Jim Hoft: EPIC! Trump Brings Coal Miners to Executive Order Rescuing Coal Industry from Liberal Politicians (VIDEO)
    During the event President Trump asked a coal miner to say a few words.
    The miner from West Virginia was very happy.
    This was epic!…
    http://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2017/02/epic-trump-brings-coal-miners-executive-order-rescuing-coal-industry-liberal-politicians-video/

    LIVE Stream: President Donald Trump Press Conference 2/16/2017 Trump Tears Into CNN Very Fake News!
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lPAo_J8gotQ

    41

  • #
    David Maddison

    Here are a couple of technical talks by real engineers on the issue of integrating large numbers of asynchronous generators (windmills) which should be compulsory viewing for all politicians and greentards.

    It’s simply not economically feasible.

    https://youtu.be/gJtv7gkuh1s (22 mins)

    https://youtu.be/kU6izpryqqw (19 mins)

    100

    • #

      And then there’s the rube Goldberg nature of the beast (same windmills) that makes them mission impossible for the long haul

      https://notonmywatch.com/?p=972

      51

    • #
      PeterS

      Much of that was explained to me a long time ago by an professional electrician. As stated the devil is in the detail. To apply renewable energy on a large scale requires a major overhaul of our existing grid and power distribution systems, which means hundreds of billions of dollars extra cost in addition to the solar and wind farms themselves. I find it amazing how our politicians are so ignorant of all this. As the proportion of renewbales increases the problem will more or less increase exponentially leading to coal fired power stations taken off line to avoid being damaged resulting in major blackouts. Eventually the whole grid will collapse and all connected states will be in blackout for days. Many people will die as a direct result. Perhaps then the public will wake up.

      120

    • #
      Rick Will

      There is misleading information in the videos and they are trying to oversimplify a complex problem.

      One fundamental error was his system losses. I think that chart was with regard to fuel input to the boiler or gas turbine. Transmission and distribution losses in Australia are quite low:
      http://data.worldbank.org/indicator/EG.ELC.LOSS.ZS?locations=AU

      Parts of Australia has so-called Smart Meters that can measure power both ways and at half hourly billing intervals. The latest FITs are more reflective of wholesale cost than retail cost. That is why many households with rooftop solar are eying off batteries. They have sunk costs in the panels so they evaluate the batteries accordingly.

      Some grid operators are already imposing requirements on wind turbines to ensure adequate reactive power capacity – Ontario, Canada for example. I would expect that harmonics would need to be controlled at the main connection sub for each wind plant as a condition of being connected to the grid. Residential solar is a more difficult issue and dirty inverters could damage sensitive gear – have you had a transformer fail in your television!

      The Australian grid is better managed than the USA. I believe the NEM has wider geographical spread than the interconnection across Europe. Managing the skinny interconnectors has been a long time challenge for Australia with large mining loads a long way from coastal power stations. It is not unusual for a mine to have a requirement to advise a supplier when they are starting a mill, bringing a dragline on line or starting the haulage winder. When Broken Hill was connected to the Victorian grid it required automatic control of reactive load to maintain stability.

      Places like SA are not far off having to implement voltage regulation on solar output to avoid over voltage conditions when output exceeds demand in the local network. Local networks in new subdivisions have to allow for higher generation than load due to the high take up of rooftop solar.

      23

  • #
    Neville

    Amazing how the Flannery and Steffen donkeys still get a free pass from their ABC, Fairfax and most of the MSM.
    After years of clueless forecasts these fools can still be called top scientists. Just unbelievable. Top marks to the Bolter for this update and Jo’s SWWA gets a special mention.

    http://www.heraldsun.com.au/blogs/andrew-bolt/flannery-washed-out-in-perth/news-story/dce43bec13c5610492502d78c226c50e

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  • #

    While complexity may be the apparent problem the underlying cause of the complexity is trying to integrate a large portion of highly variable and unpredictable supply from wind and solar power.

    90

    • #
      el gordo

      With both main parties supporting renewables its going to be tough turning the juggernaut on its head, but the Trump effect should give us the heavy lifting needed to bring about a revolution .

      80

      • #
        PeterS

        No doubt in time the public will wake up as I don’t believe we are that stupid. Stupid yes to the point of being lazy not using our brains but eventually the pain of ignorance will be so high both major parties will get their faces slapped really hard even the hard core brain dead Greens will be lucky to show their faces again.

        31

        • #
          el gordo

          The Trump Administration intends overturning the warmists agenda and when the Washington Press Gallery squeal the President will tell them why.

          The ramifications would be enormous, because the MSM has to report his every word a debate among the ordinary folk is unavoidable, this may have dire political consequences at the next federal election.

          Imagine the voting public abusing Aunty for peddling propaganda (at our expense) for a quarter of a century. Its a pretty sight.

          31

        • #
          GD

          No doubt in time the public will wake up as I don’t believe we are that stupid.

          It will take extended blackouts in Victoria and NSW to wake them up. SA has a small population. It’s a case of ‘that’s their problem’, we’re alright Jack. That is until the Victorian public feels the brunt of the Hazelwood closure.

          10

  • #
    pat

    ABC doesn’t say CS Energy is owned by Qld Govt (which has a 50% RET by 2030), or that is has gas interests, or that it “was awarded A$32 million in 2010 to help construct Australia’s first large-scale solar thermal project at Kogan Creek Power Station. Funding was provided by the Rudd Government under the Renewable Energy Demonstration Program. – Wikipedia):

    16 Feb: ABC 7.30 Report: No new coal-fired power plants will be built in Australia, says CS Energy
    MARTIN MOORE: It’s not game-changing. You’ve still got to think that ultra-super-critical produces twice the emissions of gas-fired technology…

    MARTIN MOORE: Well, I think CS Energy certainly has no intention of building any coal-fired power plants, ultra-centre super-critical or not.
    And it would surprise me greatly if there was any more coal-fired technology was built in Australia…

    BRENDAN PEARSON, CEO, MINERALS COUNCIL OF AUSTRALIA: Everywhere else in East Asia, countries are embracing this technology, and have done for a decade.
    So I think it makes sense that we – given we’ve got the coal – to also see, to check out this technology and I think investors, over time, given an even playing field, will embrace it.

    ***IAN DUNLOP, FORMER COAL EXECUTIVE: Those coal plants in Asia, whilst they’re all fine on paper, ***a large number of them are basically being cancelled or mothballed, and the big push is moving away from that…
    HAYDEN COOPER: These days, he campaigns for a cleaner planet, and Australia, he says, cannot meet its Paris climate targets if coal power remains in the energy mix.
    IAN DUNLOP: The pressure on us is going to be enormous and the fact is that, if we go ahead and do the things the Prime Minister’s talking about, you’re going to lock this in for the next 40 or 50 years.
    So, to use the political vernacular, I mean, Australia is pretty much the world’s biggest leaner – not a lifter in any way…
    http://www.abc.net.au/7.30/content/2017/s4621395.htm

    16 Feb: ABC: No more coal-fired power stations will be built in Australia, Queensland provider CS Energy says
    7.30 By national affairs correspondent Hayden Cooper
    The Minerals Council of Australia maintains the new highly-efficient coal power stations are commercially viable and needed in Australia.
    Brendan Pearson: “The bottom line is that investment banks like Morgan Stanley have highlighted the benefits of this technology and said it’s cost effective.”
    “They’re being built all around Asia … so I think it’s logical provided our policy settings are sensible that this will play a part in the future.”…
    http://www.abc.net.au/news/2017-02-16/coal-power-generator-says-new-plants-not-viable/8277210

    31

  • #
    Robert Rosicka

    Listened in on the end of a press conference given the SA minister responsible for their power and it was like listening to a five year old who had done something they shouldn’t have .
    Every excuse , blame others , not my fault , greedy providers , the federal governments fault , the AEMO’s fault , global warming , the dog ate my homework , someone pushed me in the mud .
    You name it he sprouted it , don’t remember him blaming aliens ,though I didn’t get to listen to the propaganda in its entirety .

    130

    • #
      Rick Will

      Its global warming now but that will be modified to Extreme Weather in June. I defined that in the context of South Australia at post #41. They need to be careful using the term Global Warming as it really only implies in summer and if you do not live in Perth or Melbourne.

      20

  • #
    pat

    SBS has it, Australian, AFR, Fairfax have it; even The West Australian has it…but nothing as yet from ABC:

    17 Feb: TheWest: AAP: Coal price rise fuels stellar Whitehaven recovery
    Whitehaven Coal’s half-year profit has skyrocketed thanks to a jump in coal prices late last year and increased production.
    The east coast miner’s net profit of $157.5 million for the six months to December 31 is up from $7.8 million a year ago.
    Revenue has also jumped sharply from the same time last year – up 43 per cent to $823.5 million.
    “Whitehaven Coal is capturing the benefit of the improved coal price environment, aided by a sustained focus on cost reduction,” chief executive Paul Flynn said…
    Whitehaven said production in the second half of FY2017 is planned to be higher than in the first half…
    https://thewest.com.au/business/coal/coal-price-rise-fuels-stellar-whitehaven-recovery-ng-b88389561z

    21

    • #

      Coal price rise fuels stellar Whitehaven recovery

      Ever wondered why those coal fired power plants have not been replaced, or as others are now saying, will never be replaced.

      Find a large scale coal fired power plant in Australia, and, umm, where are they constructed?

      Virtually all of them are built at the site of a large coal mine, so there’s no major cost involved in transporting coal to the power plant, and in large scale plants, think 15,000 tonnes a day, or two full train loads, each and every day. Build it at the site of the mine itself, and no need to transport, hence costs (significantly) lowered.

      So now I ask myself. Why not replace those coal fired power plants?

      Why of course, how silly of me not to think of that.

      Why would you actually use your own coal, when the price is so high. Make more money selling the stuff eh!

      Hmm, sounds familiar eh! The same as is already happening with Natural Gas. All of it being sold offshore.

      Tony.

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      • #
        PeterS

        Well I suppose it could be worse. We could be importing cheaper coal instead of using our own coal.

        10

        • #
          joseph

          But, just think how much worse it could be, to be importing and using cheaper coal, when we could be importing and using coal that is more expensive than our own!

          00

          • #
            PeterS

            Let them try. I can’t see that happening without the public demanding immediate resignations of politicians in question.

            10

            • #
              joseph

              They won’t try it before they have subjected us to the Convince-athon. And soon after we’ll be demanding to have the most expensive of coals imported and the politician’s wages increased.

              10

      • #
      • #
        crakar24

        Tony,

        I have been paying close attention of late to the figures from states other than SA and what I have found is whilst SA continually draws between 400 and 800 mw from Vic NSW also draws at least 1 GW from I assume QLD and Vic.

        If we remove 1.6Gw from the system do:

        1, Victoria have enough generation to support itself or will it need to rely on power from TAS?

        2, Will QLD be able to generate enough capacity to support itself and also keep NSW from going under?

        My take on this would be without Hazelwood the whole eastern sea board will now be teetering on the edge, remove one more generator and its all over.

        Would you agree with my (very) simplistic appraisal of the situation?

        Regards

        Crakar24

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        • #

          I put an immense amount of work into my submission for the Qld Government 50% renewables thing, only to find that no one actually read any of the submissions, and that they had their minds made up from the start.

          The upshot is that Qld will NOT be closing ANY of its coal fired plants by the due date 2030, the finding from their own committee.

          Why?

          Here they all are, and note the opening dates,

          Callide B – 700MW – 1988 and Callide C – 920MW – 2001
          Gladstone – 1680MW – 1976
          Kogan Creek – 750MW – 2007
          Milmerran – 850MW – 2002
          Stanwell – 1460MW – 1996
          Tarong North – 443MW – 2003
          Tarong – 1400MW – 1986
          Total Nameplate 8203MW

          Note those opening dates, making this fleet the youngest in Australia.

          So, why will they not be closing any of these plants even Gladstone, the oldest in the State which will be 54 years old in 2030, and home of an Aluminium smelter, so surprise surprise they will not be closing. The reason they will not be closing is that they have cast iron contracts to supply for at least 40 years, and to close them would result in legal measures to compensate for their closure, and, umm, you won’t see that written by the Government committee.

          Queensland currently consumes total daily maximum up around 7200MW.

          So, feasibly, Qld can get all its supply from coal fired power.

          I can see perhaps a huge new Interconnector into NSW from Queensland, so Qld can supply power into NSW.

          Victoria goes into deficit when Hazelwood closes, (if that actually happens, stone cold all units closing at the one time) so they will (try to) get supply from NSW. Sth Aus will just go black, because no amount of Interconnectors can supply Sth Aus with power from Qld or even NSW.

          The Qld oversupply??? will go via Interconnector into NSW, but with line losses etc, that power will be lucky to make it as far as Newcastle. NSW into Victoria perhaps just.

          With Sth Aus, they’ll have nowhere to get it from, so they’ll just go black. Tasmania has their Basslink, providing some into Victoria, but perish the thought of it going from Victoria to Tas. if Victoria is in deficit.

          All of this kerfuffle will pass away soon, but I fear it will take major problems to make people see what is happening. It has started with Sth Aus, and now people are asking questions and going looking for answers not forthcoming from politicians.

          Then, new coal fired plants will be constructed, sadly by then, 20 years too late.

          Bayswater and Mount Piper had well advanced plans to go USC almost eight to ten years ago, sadly also, now confined to the dustbin.

          I don’t know how some of these politicians will fare when the truth actually comes out, and all they had to do was to go and find out, or have people explain it to them.

          It’s a terrible situation we have now as the darkness looms upon us all ….. literally.

          Tony.

          170

          • #
            bobl

            On the other hand at 23% One Nation is likely to hold the balance of power in qld meaning the renewable revolution won’t happen here, maybe some retrofits to HELE coal though. Weather exposed generators in cyclonic wind zones make no practical sense, frankly I hope the engineers refuse to build them.

            40

        • #
          Graeme No.3

          While Tony is having a well earned cuppa,

          1. Most of the time Victoria will have enough for themselves, but any problem e.g. maintenance or other shutdown and they will need to draw from other states. SA hasn’t any spare at all, except in a moderate gale. NSW has been drawing from Vic. so hasn’t any surplus unless they stop sending some to Qld. who have been drawing from NSW. The only option for the Victorians will be to demand electricity from Tasmania which is unlikely for 2 reasons – limitations due to only 1 Tasman interconnector and a certain nervousness in Tassie about running their dams to near empty.
          2. Will Qld. be able to support itself? Not if the Premier gets her way with renewables. In any case it will be blackouts in hot weather.

          Will the loss of one more generator mean blackouts across the whole eastern sea board –
          Yes. I suggest a roster
          Old. power one day, blacked out the next.
          NSW blackouts Tuesday and Thursday, except in Summer.
          Vic. blackouts Wednesday and Friday except in Winter when the wind blows.
          SA full power available every Feb. 29, April 31, June 31, Sept. 31 and Nov. 31, unless those days fall on a weekday..

          100

          • #
            el gordo

            What does centralised electricity mean?

            ‘The 1000MW Wallerawang power station was bought by EnergyAustralia in 2013 and It was closed in 2014 due to declining demand for centralised electricity.’

            Mudgee Guardian

            30

            • #
              RobK

              El Gordo,
              In that context “centralized” refers to a grid with a few large power generators as opposed to a distributed or decentralized grid which is characterized by lots of small generators such as household solar,wind farms etc.

              00

          • #
            Crakar24

            Thanks guys bottom line we are ducked as I thought. I say bring it on in a hurry that way we can re build quickly (relatively speaking) without the children having a hissy fit and slowing the rebuild.

            Cheers

            20

  • #
    pat

    17 Feb: The Diplomat: Grace Guo: Why Is Asia Returning to Coal?
    The fossil fuel is undergoing an unexpected renaissance in the region.
    Just a few short years ago, few would have dared to predict that coal could have a future in the energy policies of emerging and developed countries alike. Yet the fossil fuel is undergoing an unexpected renaissance in Asia, buoyed by technical breakthroughs and looming questions about squaring development with energy security.
    For Japan, coal has emerged as the best alternative to replacing its 54 nuclear reactors…On February 1, the government pledged to decommission all reactors and replace them with 45 new coal-fired power plants equipped with the latest clean coal technology…
    But why did Abe go with coal and not renewables or, say, natural gas? After Fukushima, Japan initially ramped up its imports of liquefied natural gas, but realized that LNG would be prohibitively expensive in the long-term. Cost-conscious, the government has instead opted for high-efficiency low-emissions (HELE) coal plants and plans to market its clean coal technologies abroad in addition to implementing them at home. Coal power already made up 31 percent of Japan’s energy mix in 2015 but under the current plan, the fossil fuel will become the country’s primary power source by 2019…

    Japan’s embrace of coal puts it squarely within the general trend for Asia, where countries are turning to the fossil fuel for a host of different reasons. For India and China, the million-dollar question that any energy strategy has to answer is: “Does it promote or does it hinder the country’s economic development?” That question has been at the center of fierce debates and even though both Beijing and New Delhi have been adopting renewable energies, it doesn’t seem that coal’s position is threatened…
    India’s policymakers, for their part, have to deal with rapid development and population growth that make coal indispensable to meeting the expected 3.5 percent increase in year-on-year demand for electricity between now and 2040…
    http://thediplomat.com/2017/02/why-is-asia-returning-to-coal/

    16 Feb: Breitbart: Charlie Spiering: Promise Kept: Donald Trump Overturns Obama Rule Killing Mining Jobs
    Trump said the resolution would “eliminate another terrible job-killing rule” and would help save thousands of American jobs in the mining industry.
    Miners in hard hats surrounded the president, and House Republicans who supported the decision joined him for the signing ceremony at the White House. Two Democrat senators were also present; West Virginia’s Joe Manchin and North Dakota’s Heidi Heitkamp. Coal state Republican senators including Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell (Ky.), Shelley Moore (W.Va.) Capito, and Rand Paul (Ky.) also attended…
    “Our folks are so excited to have a pro-coal president and we thank you so much for being on our side,” McConnell said to Trump during the ceremony.
    Trump said he intends to keep his promises to the miners who backed his campaign.
    “The mines are a big deal,” Trump said. “I got support from some of you folks right from the very beginning, and I won’t forget it.”
    http://www.breitbart.com/big-government/2017/02/16/promise-kept-donald-trump-overturns-obama-rule-killing-mining-jobs/

    41

  • #
    pat

    stranded assets, ABC:

    17 Feb: Bloomberg: Coal-Loving Indonesia Stock Investor Doubles Down After 43% Gain
    by Harry Suhartono
    Indonesian stock fund manager Agus Yanuar has trounced his peers and the Jakarta Composite Index over the past year by riding a rebound in commodity prices…
    Yanuar’s SAM Indonesian Equity Fund has returned 43 percent in 12 months, more than double its closest rival and beating a 13 percent advance in the JCI. With coal, metal and palm oil priced in dollars and much of the costs of Indonesian producers in rupiah, they’ve benefited from both the rally in commodities and the strengthening U.S. currency…
    “Whatever the outcome, commodities remain the rational choice,” said Yanuar. “We’ll keep overweighting commodities on the back of higher prices and expectations for a stronger dollar.”
    The Bloomberg Commodity Index has risen 22 percent from a record low in January 2016, while coal has climbed around 90 percent in 12 months. That’s helped drive a 76 percent gain in the Jakarta Mining Index, which is dominated by coal companies…
    His top picks at the moment include:
    •PT Adaro Energy, Indonesia’s largest coal producer, which has surged 176 percent in the past year…
    •Coal miners PT Tambang Batubara Bukit Asam, PT Indo Tambangraya Megah and PT Delta Dunia Makmur…
    •Oil and gas explorer PT Medco Energi and shipping company PT Wintermar Offshore Marine…
    https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2017-02-16/coal-loving-indonesia-stock-investor-doubles-down-after-43-gain

    31

  • #
    pat

    16 Feb: Sky News: PM doesn’t rule out Qld coal power station
    PM: ‘Australian governments, starting with Labor government’s I might say, have already spent nearly half a billion dollars on clean coal research and technology,’ he said.
    ‘There isn’t a country in the world that has a bigger vested interest in demonstrating coal can play a part in a global low emissions future.’…
    ‘Labor wants to have massive share of renewable in our mix, they want to go to 50 per cent, if you are going to have more renewable you’ve got to say how you are going to maintain base load.
    ‘They have no plan for that.
    ‘Malcolm Turnbull hasn’t ruled out subsidising a coal power station in Queensland.
    http://www.skynews.com.au/news/politics/state/2017/02/16/pm-doesn-t-rule-out-qld-coal-power-station.html

    16 Feb: AfricanBusinessMag: Neil Ford: Tanzania: Mbeya coal mine agreed
    The Rukwa Coal to power project in Tanzania has taken a big step towards construction after UK-based developer Edenville Energy signed an agreement with Chinese firm Sinohydro to build the power plant…
    The participation of Chinese companies in such projects also brings the prospect of funding from Chinese financial institutions.
    The British firm is currently carrying out some trial mining at the site, where it intends to develop a coal processing plant. Apart from the power scheme, it aims to supply coal to other customers in East Africa…

    24 Jan: WorldCoal: Louise Mulhall: Edenville Energy announces partnership with Sinohydro Corporation
    Currently, Sinohydro has 486 international projects under construction in more than 72 countries, with a total contract value of nearly US$43 billion…
    https://www.worldcoal.com/coal/24012017/edenville-energy-announces-partnership-with-sinohydro-corporation/

    21

    • #

      (my bolding here)

      ‘Labor wants to have massive share of renewable in our mix, they want to go to 50 per cent, if you are going to have more renewable you’ve got to say how you are going to maintain base load.

      Australia currently has (around) 4000MW of wind power.

      When Capacity factor is taken into account, at (around) 30%, then that Nameplate now comes in at 1200MW.

      The current Base Load for Australia is 18,000MW, so just to cover that Base Load, you will need that same power, so, at 1200MW, that means you will need the current total of wind in Australia multiplied by 15, yes FIFTEEN.

      So, a Nameplate of 60,000MW.

      50% Renewables of that is 30,000MW, or almost 8 times the current total nameplate, and here, that’s by 2030, so every current existing wind plant will be time expired by then, so that will also need to be replaced as well.

      Please, trust me here. That will NEVER happen.

      And that is just to cover the Base Load. Keep in mind here, that just like South Australia, there will times when generation will be high, and there will also be times when it is low, and very low at that. Base Load is required ABSOLUTELY, for 24 hours of every day.

      And then, the maximum consumption is up around 30,000MW in Summer.

      50% renewables. Labor, and for that fact, every politician needs to do some research. They have no concept whatsoever of what they are talking about.

      Tony.

      140

      • #
        Rick Will

        You are making the same mistake most people make with renewables.

        So, a Nameplate of 60,000MW.

        You cannot just multiply the NEM demand by the rated capacity times the reciprocal of the capacity factor. You would need near infinite storage to get reliable supply if you did that. The lowest cost option comes when the intermittent generator rated capacity is roughly 10 times the maximum demand when CF is 30% ; more than 10 times if CF is lower. So to reliably supply 18,000MW the rating of the intermitting source would need to be at least 180,000MW if it has 30% capacity factor. That needs to be tied to storage capacity that can support 2 full days (48 hours) without any energy input. So roughly 700,000MWh battery (or pumped storage) allowing for 80% load factor.

        Your 60,000MW would fall a LOOONNNG way short of meeting the demand as it occurs.

        40

      • #
        toorightmate

        We will run out of wind!!!!

        10

  • #
    pat

    to ABC boss Michelle Guthrie: why isn’t ABC informing its audience of all the coal activity around the world?

    16 Feb: TimesofIndia: Sanjay Dutta: NTPC finally makes it as integrated power company with own coal mining
    After years of delay India’s largest generation utility NTPC on Thursday finally realised its coal mining dream, putting on track efforts to secure fuel supplies and transform into an integrated power company…
    Being a thermal power generator, NTPC is hugely dependent on coal. It has 19 coal-fired power stations, which consumed 161 million tonne of the dry fuel in 2015-16…

    Pakri Barwadih is just a beginning for NTPC, which will be the largest coal miner in the country after state monopoly Coal India Ltd once it brings to production all the blocks allotted to it. Besides Pakri-Barwadih, NTPC has been allotted Chatti-Bariatu, Kerandari, Dulanga, Talaipalli and Chatti-Bariatu (South), Banai, Bhalumunda in Jahrkhand and Mandakini B in Odisha.

    These mines have total geological reserves of around 7.15 billion tonne and production potential of 107 million tonne per annum, good enough to fuel 20,000 MW generation capacity…
    http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/business/india-business/ntpc-finally-makes-it-as-integrated-power-company-with-own-coal-mining/articleshow/57191628.cms

    51

  • #
    Analitik

    For those interesting in the renewable EV salvation that is Tesla

    two months later we went back to him and said “Elon, you’re totally screwed. The Germans are building a gigafactory twice as big as yours, the Chinese are building four of them bigger than yours, the Japanese are building two and the Koreans are building one. So unless you’re willing to pay to buy our cobalt and our nickel at whatever the price may be in the future, you’re not going to be able to build any batteries in your own gigafactory and your whole company is going out of business, and we’re going to make money shorting your stock.”

    http://www.24hgold.com/english/news-gold-silver-short-tesla-motors-inc-ivanhoe-mines-ltd-ceo-robert-friedland-and-the-coming-cobalt-cliff.aspx?article=10233114194H11690

    50

    • #
      Dennis

      My question is: Where will the electricity come from to recharge the world’s passenger vehicle fleet if electric vehicles replace fossil fuel technology power?

      And the next question is how could other road transport vehicles be recharged, or would they be hybrids like diesel-electric locomotives?

      Next is construction machinery, boats, household lawn mowers, etc?

      Because there appears to be no way so called renewables even with battery storage cope.

      40

      • #
        Willard

        Dennis as you say every Electric car needs energy to produce the electricity needed to charge the car, on the other hand it is replacing an internal combustion engine that requires energy to transport and refine oil into fuel suitable for the bowser.
        Heavy long distance haulage will most likely become hybrid, diesel or gas turbine, lowering the fuel consumption by a considerable margin, increasing the engine life and giving the vehicle enormous torque when required.
        Short distance trucks and buses will be full electric, this is happening now.
        Shipping would stay as it is, why change when there will be plenty of oil available that’s not being used in suburban transport.

        26

        • #
          Dennis

          So I know where transport fossil fuels come from but Willard, where would the electricity come from, renewables cannot provide even base grid power, or power reliably, and the Green Labor Libs want to end fossil fuel power stations, so where will the electricity come from?

          71

          • #
            Willard

            Dennis- the energy is used for a different purpose, instead of refining and shipping fuel it can potentially get used for producing electricty to charge vehicles, it’s therefore not necessarily increasing emissions to charge a car or bus. There are a lot of reasons Sydney airport have electric buses, well to wheels is only one of them.

            23

            • #
              AndyG55

              “producing electricity to charge vehicles”

              Recharge times have to come down to less than 10 minute for a 400+km drive before EV’s will ever be much use in Australia.

              31

              • #
                AndyG55

                Sydney to Melbourne.. 8 hours or less with 2 drivers.

                (I did Parkes to Seymour in 5½ hours once)

                Try that in an EV.

                21

              • #
                AndyG55

                “Sydney to Melbourne in 8 hours……. ”

                from southern suburbs via Heathcote Rd, admittedly. ;-)

                01

              • #
                Willard

                The recent news concerning the Daimler, BMW, VW and Ford partnership building a fast charge network in Europe suggests this is what’s going to happen AndyG55 400kms in 10 minutes, although Tesla have the capability to provide a battery pack with almost 1000km real world range right now, they just don’t see the point of going past 600km, 90 second battery swap has been achieved in California but by all reports drivers had little interest, basically 99.9 percent of Tesla drivers don’t mind stopping for 20 minutes a few times between Melbourne and Sydney to grab a drink, have a stretch and check the interwebs. Need to travel Melbourne-Sydney faster than 9 hours best to get on board an aircraft.

                21

              • #
                AndyG55

                Yawn..

                The Monkees had a song called “Daydream Believer”..

                or maybe this is more appropriate… https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x2npZLdxkZQ

                12

        • #
          Dennis

          Why not nuclear power for shipping, after all the major powers have had them for many decades?

          30

    • #
      Willard

      Does Ivanhoe have control over every source of Cobalt on the planet?

      11

  • #
    rk

    Readers should look at the two links provided by David Maddison at comment no.27 Apart from a good overview from Electrical engineers the standout comment was the problem of Reactive Power with large scale renewables. Most people’s eyes glaze over in understanding REACTIVE POWER but it is a vital part of Total power in the system and in controlling voltage. With 40% renewables and many off line due to weather conditions plus gas plants down there would not be enough reactive power in the system to control the voltage or if the voltage got out of phase with the current. The fundamental problem all around the world with wind is the high rate of gear box and bearing failures. No form of renewables can withstand lines of very severe thunderstorms when extreme downburts at the front of the storm would be forcing all the blades down in the same direction and also producing very large hail stones. Most people wouldn’t know including the Weather Bureau that when a line of storms pass associated with a frontal system the wind veers 180 degrees in the opposite direction. Imagine the stress that puts on blades and towers.

    131

  • #
  • #
    MudCrab

    Steve Marshall has disappointed me somewhat in these last five months.

    I have a lot of time for Steve and respect him, but why the SA Libs have not simply come out with a promise for baseload power is beyond me.

    True the SA election is next year, and maybe the brains trust wants to play a few cards close to the chest, but they went forward with a major rail/road upgrade plan only a few years ago. While I agree with and like that plan, with five blackouts in five months leading with a baseload powerstation as an election pledge should be a no brainer.

    Dunno. I let my party membership drop because of Turnbull and hardly get to talk to anyone these days. There might be a reason for all this fence sitting but no one is offering to share it with me.

    60

    • #
      Graeme No.3

      MudCrab:
      Start a Former Liberal Club.
      You need a catchy name – how about The Once Nation?

      30

    • #
      Rick Will

      Marshall has mentioned replacing the partially demolished coal plant at Port Augusta.

      He is likely wise to let it ride out and not try to make political mileage from a seriously bad situation. When Hazelwood closes SA will be a basket case. Right now I think there are enough people believing that renewables are the future to make it prickly territory. Bill Shorten is already stepping away from a 50% target. WA labour realised it would be suicide to support 50% renewable.

      There is enough data now to do some serious modelling on wind and solar power. It is abundantly clear that wind and solar are incompatible with a low cost reliable electricity network.

      Households and businesses with low energy intensity can go off grid at a manageable cost if they avoid the distribution and retail costs that quadruple the wholesale power cost to small consumers.

      60

  • #
    Rick Will

    South Australia is redefining Extreme Weather.

    It is any day that does not meet the following criteria:
    1. Wind is less than 5m/s at any time.
    2. Wind exceeds more than 30m/s at any time.
    3. Temperature exceeds 38C at any time through the day.
    4. Adelaide has full cloud cover at any time.
    5. Adelaide does not get more than 6 hours full sunshine equivalent each day.

    Once Hazelwood closes the following conditions will constitute Extreme Weather:
    1. Wind is less than 8m/s.
    2. As before.
    3. Temperature exceeds more than 39C on any day and is less than 10C for more than 4 hours in any day.
    4. As before.
    5. Adelaide does not get more than 7 hours full sunshine equivalent on any day.

    On extreme weather days the following apply:
    1. Air conditioners cannot be used unless powered by batteries.
    2. Electric hot water heaters must be turned off.
    3. Toasters cannot be used.
    4. Ovens cannot be used.
    5. The only electric cooktop that can be used must have inductive heating.
    6. Electric jugs cannot be used.
    7. Televisions can be used any time after 8:30pm and before 6am.
    8. Hair dryers can be used but only for their intended function and no more than 10 minutes per day per person.

    41

  • #
    Sean McHugh

    Everything is on the table. Phew, that’s a relief.

    10

  • #
    Neville

    It seems that Shorten and his party of liars are starting to panic about their 50% renewable fantasy. The cost will be astronomical for a crap energy system that often closes down and leaves homes and businesses in a mess.
    Why would anyone vote for these imbeciles? 48 bn $ and counting to be wasted if people are stupid enough to vote Labor.

    http://www.heraldsun.com.au/blogs/andrew-bolt/labor-panics-over-its-50-renewables-promise/news-story/0a679dcfce37c993a7aec4aa3b677fe6

    72

    • #
      PeterS

      What’s interesting is it would not be hard to prove the cost would be so high we might as well go the full hog and declare we will be 100% renewable by 2030. Eitehr way it will send this country bankrupt in so many ways. Of course their target will not be reached. Even the LNP’s target is very questionable. So in actual fact both parties are telling us fibs. Yet another reason not to vote for either of them at the next federal election.

      40

  • #
    AndyG55

    https://theconservativetreehouse.com/2017/02/16/president-trump-signs-bill-repealing-obamas-lame-duck-coal-regulation-video/

    Where is the Leader in Australia to start getting rid of ridiculous costly and pointless legislation, like the RET, myriad and childish green tape etc

    WE ARE LEADERLESS !! :-(

    132

    • #
      Dennis

      Sadly, I hate to believe, he is struggling to find ways around matching President Trump’s initiatives. It goes to a lack of judgement coupled to a one-eyed view of new world order.

      40

    • #
      el gordo

      Cory has years to build the new party and he has the script, turbulent times ahead.

      ‘Cory Bernardi’s new Australian Conservatives party could win support from 18% of Coalition voters according to the latest Guardian Essential Report, which also shows the two major party leaders in the doldrums with voters.’

      10

    • #
      PeterS

      We are being lead over the cliff by both parties. After all Turnbull was very much in agreement with Rudd at the time over the ETS/carbon tax issues. As for Corey by the time he gets the requisite support, if ever, it will be too late. Something else has to happen well before then otherwise we are gone.

      60

      • #
        David-of-Cooyal-in-Oz

        G’day PeterS,
        I’m waiting to see what happens in Canberra. Not Parliament, but its electricity supply. As I understand it the ACT produces none, and has declared it’s heading for 100% renewables, and, wait for it, sourced from SA.
        Sounds like a recipe for disaster to me. And potentially quite soon. April 1 might be appropriate, and worth watching.
        Cheers,
        Dave B

        10

  • #
    Macspee

    Never mind with APRA on side SA will surely continue to descend at a rapidly increasing rate until it disappears in a flash of dark.

    10

  • #
    David Maddison

    I never cease to be amazed by the common Leftist argument that “renewables” are so incredibly cheap that they’ll naturally put coal, gas and (in more civilised countries), nuclear out of business without subsidies.

    41

  • #
    pat

    read all:

    15 Feb: NationalReview: Julie Kelly: A Climate Scientist Is Smeared for Blowing the Whistle on ‘Corrected’ Data
    And in a completely misleading article, a climagte blogger for The Guardian claimed that Bates feared the climate “deniers” would misuse his information (although Bates did not say that)…
    Don’t expect this to stop any time soon. Climate alarmists and profiteers will only intensify their smear campaign as this unravels. Congress is now expanding its investigation of NOAA, Bates has indicated that more information and documents are forthcoming, and NOAA is now saying it will bring in outside experts to analyze the Karl report. As (AAAS head Rush) Holt told the House Science Committee, “when one’s cherished beliefs and partisan ideologies and wishful thinking have turned out to be wanting, scientific evidence is most likely all that remains.” No doubt he completely missed the irony of his own statement.
    http://www.nationalreview.com/article/444942/

    ***it’s science, not politics! lol:

    6 Feb: AtlantaJournalConstitution: Alexis Stevens: Gore warns of dangers of climate change at Atlanta meeting
    A climate change meeting in Atlanta on Thursday had all the ingredients of a political spectacle.
    With Donald Trump, a noted skeptic of climate change science winning the the White House, a nervous federal agency scrapped plans to host the event. Enter, Al Gore. The former Democratic presidential candidate helped revive the conference and took to the podium Thursday to talk about his signature issue.
    But it was ***science – not politics – that carried the day…

    In the climate and health meeting held at The Carter Center, Gore steered clear of mentioning Trump. Instead, he stressed that climate changes could render parts of the Middle East – including some of the holiest cities on the planet – uninhabitable. It could also cause deadly health problems and reduce life expectancy. Those in poverty will be hardest hit, he said.
    The event was supposed to be a three-day conference held at the Centers for Disease Control. But when that event was cancelled following the presidential election, Gore helped organize a condensed, one-day meeting instead…
    “This is a relatively new finding, that in some areas of the Middle East and north Africa, there will be, according to the scientific predictions, areas that will no longer be fit for human habitation – beyond the limits for human survival,” Gore said. “The holy cities of Mecca and Medina are in this zone. Two years in Iran, the heat index – the combination of temperature and humidity – reached 165 degrees Fahrenheit.
    “No human being can live for more than a few hours outdoors in those conditions,” Gore said…

    Experts from Columbia University, Harvard University, the University of Wisconsin the World Health Organization and the CDC were among the speakers and panelists at the fast-paced conference…
    “This is way bigger than politics, but politics in our country are going to hinder progress,” (commercial photography student Leslie) Bass said. “It’s not some myth. These are not alternative facts.”
    http://www.myajc.com/news/local/gore-warns-dangers-climate-change-atlanta-meeting/bnk9amfKZEcc5HIsvsxUDM/

    01

  • #
    Steve of Cornubia

    Looks more like ‘crippled by political incompetence’ to me.

    20

  • #
    pat

    what a total jerk:

    17 Feb: Reuters: Swati Pandey: Australian PM says Trump wasting his time criticizing media
    Trump has repeatedly described media criticism of him as “fake news” since taking office last month, labeling the media as the “opposition party”…
    “A very great politician, Winston Churchill, once said that politicians complaining about the newspapers is like a sailor complaining about the sea,” Turnbull told reporters in New Zealand on Friday.
    “There is not much point. That is the media WE live with and WE have to get our message across and WE thank you all in the media for your kind attention,” he said…
    http://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-trump-australia-idUSKBN15W0G1?utm_campaign=trueAnthem:+Trending+Content&utm_content=58a6a7a904d30142f83515fb&utm_medium=trueAnthem&utm_source=twitter

    16 Feb: Rasmussen Reports: The Rasmussen Reports daily Presidential Tracking Poll for Thursday shows that 55% of Likely U.S. Voters approve of President Trump’s job performance…
    Nearly half (48%) also believe most reporters are biased against the president. Only 12% think they are biased for Trump…

    plenty of people commenting online today that Trump’s approval rating will jump tomorrow, DUE to his extraordinary Press Conference. time will tell.

    a must-read:

    15 Feb: Ann Coulter: THE SILENCE OF THE LAMBS CONGRESS
    http://www.anncoulter.com/columns/2017-02-15.html

    the final result – not being reported by major MSM now that the Republican won:

    15 Feb: PowerlineBlog: Scott Johnson: Democrat comeback on hold in Minnesota
    The Democrats got a rerun in one of the state House legislative races in Chisago County yesterday. Only last week the Star Tribune published an excited preview of the special election. The Star Tribune noted the efforts that Democrats put into the race to pull it off and make a statement.
    Now that the results are in, however, the excitement over at the Star Tribune has faded: “Republican Anne Neu will represent Chisago County in an open Minnesota House seat following her victory in a closely watched special election on Tuesday. Neu took 53 percent of the vote in the House District 32B race, while DFLer Laurie Warner took 47 percent.” In his Star Tribune Morning Hot Dish newsletter today, Coolican laconically observes: “That means the House now stands at 77-57 for the GOP.”
    Congratulations and thanks are in order for the excellent Ms. Neu while we pause to note that the Democrat comeback is on hold in Minnesota.
    COMMENT: CNN did a piece on this race recently and were hyping it as the first test of trump and that the D’s were looking strong.

    15 Feb: Pioneer Press: Republicans hold Minnesota House seat in first post-Trump test

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    pat

    all over our MSM, of course:

    17 Feb: ABC: Climate change could threaten entire financial system, APRA warns
    By Stephen Long
    Climate change could threaten the stability of the entire financial system, the prudential regulator has warned, as it prepares to apply climate change “stress tests” to the nation’s financial institutions.
    In its first major speech on climate change, the Australian Prudential Regulation Authority chastised companies for a lack of action on the risks it poses.
    “While climate risks have been broadly recognised, they have often been seen as a future problem or a non-financial problem,” APRA executive board member Geoff Summerhayes told an Insurance Council conference in Sydney.
    “Many of these risks are foreseeable, material and actionable now.”…

    The Climate Institute’s CEO John Connor described the speech as a “huge” development.
    “APRA has never gone out there like this before,” he said.
    “It’s an antidote to the hyper partisan political culture war on climate policy; our regulator’s moved to the front foot in managing climate risks.”
    The Climate Institute and the Investor Group on Climate Change wrote jointly to the Council of Financial Regulators two years calling for regulatory action on the financial risks from climate change.
    APRA warned in the speech that lack of policy and regulatory action could make the financial risks posed by climate change “greater and more abrupt”…
    (7 PAGE DOCUMENT)
    http://www.abc.net.au/news/2017-02-17/climate-change-could-threaten-entire-financial-system-apra/8281436

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    pat

    17 Feb: Fox23: Senate on track to confirm Scott Pruitt as EPA administrator
    by MICHAEL BIESECKER, Associated Press
    Senate Republicans are poised to use their majority to confirm President Donald Trump’s nominee to lead the Environmental Protection Agency, despite calls from Democrats for a delay.
    A vote on Scott Pruitt’s nomination is set for Friday…
    http://www.fox23.com/news/senate-on-track-to-confirm-scott-pruitt-as-epa-administrator_/495022086

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    pat

    16 Feb: RealClearPolitics: Tom Bevan Warns Media: If Everything About Trump Is A Scandal, Nothing Is
    On Fox News Channel’s ‘Special Report’ panel, RCP (Real Clear Politics) co-founder Tom Bevan responded to Donald Trump’s attack on the media today. “The public doesn’t believe you people anymore,” Trump said to the White House press corps.
    Bevan warned the media that the public is tuning them out because they were in a state of constant outrage. “The problem we’re having, to the earlier point about apolocalyptic language, is that if everything is a scandal, nothing is,” he explained. “If every cabinet nominee has horns, none of them do. The public is tuning it out.”…

    TOM BEVAN: Media reputation, trust, is at an all-time low, something like 14%, it is worse than Congress. It is terrible. And one of the things that is going on here; Trump supporters don’t trust the media –the New York Tmes sent someone out about four weeks ago to Northeastern Iowa to ask them about what was going on, and their response was: ‘Nowadays unless I see proof positive, I assume it is a lie.’
    And the problem we’re having, to the earlier point about apolocalyptic language, is that if everything is a scandal, nothing is. If every cabinet nominee has horns, none of them do. The public is tuning it out, and the media is suffering and they haven’t picked that up yet.
    http://www.realclearpolitics.com/video/2017/02/16/tom_bevan_warns_media_if_everything_is_a_scandal_nothing_is.html

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  • #
    Hivemind

    It does no good to blame Pelican Point for not starting up quickly enough. It was only 50 MW, a trifle compared to the shortfall in demand.

    People keep saying that complexity is the problem, but that isn’t the case. The problem is that x MW of peak wind capacity is taken at face value. When the wind doesn’t blow enough it can drop to near 0 MW. Similar for solar at night.

    Each state needs reliable power generation to make up for when unreliables aren’t delivering. This doesn’t include interconnectors, which have been shown to fail when needed. So if they can’t be trusted, they have to be excluded from the state’s power plan. On this basis, it is clear that SA has already reached to stage at which it can’t guarantee supply to it’s population.

    All I can say is that it’s good that SA doesn’t have any industry any more. It would be driven out by the regular power failures, rolling blackouts and extreme prices for energy.

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    Forrest Gardener

    Plenty of people have said that reliable baseload power is required. Not so many have looked at the other side of the coin.

    There is no good reason why wind and solar power should be allowed to dictate without notice when baseload generators should start and stop. There is just not enough buffer capacity to do it all instantaneously.

    By all means allow wind and solar to offer to sell power, but only on proper notice and only if they are able to guarantee supply by other means should something unforseen happen. Such notice would allow the baseload generators time to make their own offers to sell power and know in advance when to fire up and fire down.

    Everybody should know well in advance who is buying and who is supplying on any given day.

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    Doug

    This is what happens when the people allow themselves to get swept away with Green ideology. There is no replacement of baseload generation(fossil fuel, nuclear) for decades yet. But if the people of Australia and Northern Europe want to continue deluding themselves they can suffer the regular blackouts. While they light their candles, they can chant some prayer to the Earth Goddess or something.

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    pat

    momentous:

    17 Feb: WSJ: Amy Harder: Scott Pruitt Confirmed as EPA Chief by the Senate
    Move will likely lead to a rollback of Obama-era climate and environmental regulations
    WASHINGTON—The Senate confirmed Scott Pruitt on Friday to be President Donald Trump’s administrator of the Environmental Protection Agency, a move that kicks off in earnest Mr. Trump’s push to roll back Obama-era climate and environmental regulations…
    https://www.wsj.com/articles/senate-set-to-confirm-scott-pruitt-as-epa-chief-1487348089

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    pat

    18 Feb: The Intercept: Sharon Lerner: As Senate Rushes to Install Scott Pruitt at EPA, Exiled Climate Scientists Survey the Damage
    The Climate and Health meeting, which was organized in January after the CDC cancelled a similar conference, was far from being a litany of the gloom and doom predictions and statistics that you might expect from the scientists studying increases in temperature, rising sea levels, and extreme weather. Those things were present, of course, summed up perhaps most frighteningly by former vice president Al Gore, the meeting’s host, who noted that humans emit 110 million tons of global warming pollution into the atmosphere every 24 hours ­­­­— and that the heat energy trapped by this daily dump is the equivalent of “exploding 400,000 Hiroshima-class atomic bombs.” Or the graph that showed how the continued release of these greenhouse gases could lead to a 12-degree temperature rise by 2300, a change that would render large swaths of the earth uninhabitable.

    While poor countries are being hit the hardest, the U.S. is already seeing its fair share of human casualties. Air pollution, which is worsened by heat — and produced by the same fossil fuel combustion that warms the climate — already kills 200,000 Americans each year and costs the country almost 4 percent of GDP in 2010. Two-thirds of water-borne disease outbreaks in the U.S. are set off by extreme weather events. We saw pictures of refrigerator trucks for bodies that couldn’t fit into the morgue after a Chicago heat wave, elderly people felled by heat stress in the American Southwest, and children forced to carry around backpacks of emergency asthma supplies for their heat-exacerbated asthma.

    In what was may have been the saddest presentation in a day of sad presentations, psychiatrist Lise Van Susteren described the mental health consequences of climate change on children, telling of kids suffering from clinical anxiety about the climate and the particular difficulty of reckoning with human-caused crises. “What happens from intentional negligence is harder to put behind us,” she explained. Van Susteren predicted that children, as they grow older, will experience their parents’ “destructive inaction on climate” as child abuse.

    If the unsparing presentations about the mounting human toll of climate change begged for “bowls of Prozac and certificates for free vasectomies,” as one scientist joked, they also reflected the recognition that past efforts to convey the urgency of climate change to voters had failed — and were partly responsible for the fact that the climate experts were presenting their calamitous news essentially in exile…READ ALL
    https://theintercept.com/2017/02/17/as-senate-rushes-to-install-scott-pruitt-at-epa-exiled-climate-scientists-survey-the-damage/

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      Curious George

      A nice article. A psychiatrist telling of kids suffering from clinical anxiety about the climate. Kids also suffer from clinical anxiety about Trump and about police coming to shoot them. The Intercept has gone nuts. Time is out of joint.

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    Dennis

    Insurers face hit on climate risk

    MICHAEL RODDAN
    Directors could be in breach of their duties if insurers fail to factor in climate change risks and disclose them.

    The Weekend Australian

    …… the propaganda continues!

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  • #
    Robber

    We keep hearing politicians who know very little saying renewables are cheaper. Can someone cost the electricity from a wind or solar plant in $/MWhr compared to current market rates?
    It’s interesting to look at AEMO’s historical data.
    Back in 2005 before we got into the current mess, wholesale prices ranged from $39/MWh in NSW to $36/MWh in SA to $29 in Qld and $28 in Vic.
    In 2016 average prices were $52 in NSW, $60 in Qld, $62 in SA, and $46/MWh in Vic.
    So higher prices, lower reliability – there’s good government working (not).

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    el gordo

    Scott Pruitt home and hosed as head of the EPA.

    10

  • #
    Crakar24

    Where is yonnie? Does he realise his home town has a sacred birthing tree? Move over climate change we have aboriginal carp to deal with…..see bolt for details

    12

    • #
      Crakar24

      The red thumb was a bit harsh, we can’t build a dam, power station, mine, manufacturing because of a belief now we can’t build a road because a woman who self identifies as an Aborigine believes a tree standing in the way of the road was a birthing tree.

      Same ideology different cause, the age of reason is dead

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  • #
    Robert Rosicka

    Just watched a mr Moriarty on Their abc explaining his new silicon battery , which is not exactly a battery but can produce large amounts of clean green energy by using excess power to melt silicon and store it to produce electricity when demand for electricity is high .
    I note the only byproduct is supposed to be hot air .
    Don’t we already have an excess of that in this country .

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    • #
      Graeme No.3

      Robert:
      batteries produce NOTHING they only store energy. The Greens always like to claim that excess (renewable = intermittent) electricity costs nothing? as it would be wasted therefore storing it in batteries is a way of getting something for nothing.

      As for the molten silicon battery it has little to offer; the conversion back to electricity would be 60% at best and possibly 40%, excluding the losses incured at storage time. Let’s see – wind energy @ $110/MWh in (with 5% loss) followed by 50% conversion cost results in electricity @ $231 /MWh. Makes $30 coal fired look good so time for a carbon tax /sarc.

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      • #
        David Maddison

        The molten silicon has to be stored at 1400C. The only advantage it has over molten salts is the higher upper working temperature. The thermal management and materials in this system would be quite challenging I imagine. Also, the claim is that silicon is the most abundant element in the earth’s crust implying it is cheap but neglect to mention the refining costs of reducing SiO2 to Si.

        If you Google it you will see endless numbers of puff pieces on this new “miracle” storage technology which will be the solution to storing gangrene energy and we will all live happily ever after.

        20

    • #
      Robert Rosicka

      You can usually tell when something’s BS , this one stunk , just another get rich quick off gubbermint subsidies and handouts .

      20

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  • #
    pat

    cannot write what I think of McCain:

    VIDEO: 17 Feb: Reuters: Trump’s team in disarray, U.S. Senator McCain tells Europe
    by Phil Stewart and Robin Emmott
    McCain, a known Trump critic, told the Munich Security Conference that the resignation of the new president’s security adviser Michael Flynn over his contacts with Russia reflected deep problems in Washington.
    “I think that the Flynn issue obviously is something that shows that in many respects this administration is in disarray and they’ve got a lot of work to do,” said McCain.
    “The president, I think, makes statements (and) on other occasions contradicts himself. So we’ve learned to watch what the president does as opposed to what he says,” he said…
    (FINALE) U.S. intelligence agencies concluded last year that Russia hacked and leaked Democratic emails during the election campaign as part of an effort to tilt the vote in Trump’s favor.
    http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/trumps-team-in-disarray-us-senator-mccain-tells-europe/ar-AAn3V8L?li=BBnb7Kz&OCID=AVRES007

    17 Feb: Newsmax: Jason Davaney: McCain Blasts Trump’s Policies in Munich Speech
    Arizona Sen. John McCain delivered a series of blows to President Donald Trump Friday during a speech in Germany, and at one point he compared today’s political atmosphere to the Nazi years of the 1930s and 1940s.
    “In the four decades I have attended this conference, I cannot recall a year where its purpose was more necessary or more important,” said McCain, who never mentioned Trump by name during his speech at the Munich Security Conference but referenced his policies several times.
    “This panel is going to ask us to consider whether the West will survive. In recent years, this question would invite accusations of hyperbole and alarmism. Not this year. If ever there was a time to treat this question with a deadly seriousness, it is now.”
    While making his case, McCain — who like Trump is a Republican — mentioned Ewald-Heinrich von Kleist. Von Kleist was part of the group that plotted to assassinate Adolf Hitler in 1944.
    “What would von Kleist’s generation say if they saw our world today?” McCain asked. “I fear that much about it would be all too familiar for them. And they would be alarmed by it.”…
    http://www.newsmax.com/Politics/mccain-blasts-trump-policies/2017/02/17/id/774297/

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  • #
    pat

    Globalists one and all. Kevin Rudd included!
    some of the media: Christiane Amanour, CNN; Anne Applebaum, WaPo; Lyse Doucet, BBC; David Sanger, NYT. plus Jennifer Morgan, Greenpeace;
    McCain’s buddy, Lyndsey Graham, etc.

    PDF: 26 pages: MSC 2017 Participants
    https://www.securityconference.de/fileadmin/MSC_/2016/Agenda/170216_MSC2017_ListParticipants.pdf

    check all names:

    Munich Security Conference: Advisory Council
    Paul Achleitner, Chairman of the Supervisory Board, Deutsche Bank AG, Frankfurt a.M.
    George Soros, Founder and Chairman, Open Society Foundations; Chairman, Soros Fund Management LLC, New York, NY ETC
    (BOTTOM) Monthly Mind February 2017: “How Europe Should Deal With Trump”
    by Wolfgang Ischinger
    “Instead of waiting in fear of the next Trump tweet, we Europeans should lay the foundations for a Europe that is strong, capable of taking action, and committed to Western values,” argues MSC chairman Wolfgang Ischinger in an op-ed for Project Syndicate….
    For one thing, Europe must not ignore the majority of Americans who didn’t vote for Trump. The commitment of America’s civil society and the response of its judiciary show Europeans that the US they know and hold in high regard is no pushover. Instead of turning away from the US, we should cooperate with Americans who remain committed to preserving the transatlantic community of values. This includes members of the new administration who have voiced their clear support for the transatlantic partnership and continuity, to say nothing of Trump’s opponents – Democrats and Republicans alike – in Congress…
    (Wolfgang Ischinger is chairman of the Munich Security Conference and teaches at the Hertie School of Governance in Berlin)
    https://www.securityconference.de/en/about/advisory-council/

    note Reuters, MSC, (and FakeNewsMSM in general) avoid calling Donald Trump “President Trump”. closest Ischinger gets is one instance of “Donald Trump’s presidency”, yet it is German Chancellor Angela Merkel, Russian President Vladimir Putin, Vice President Mike Pence.
    I read about a month ago this was to be one of the tactics used to delegitimise the President and it’s evident on a daily basis.

    11

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    pat

    imagine if this had stopped the confirmation of Pruitt!

    16 Feb: The Hill: Max Greenwood: McCain will skip EPA confirmation vote for German conference: report
    Sen. John McCain (R-Ariz.) will skip the final confirmation vote for President Trump’s Environmental Protection Agency administrator nominee so he can make it to a global security conference in Germany, Politico reported Thursday.
    McCain was scheduled to fly with 11 other senators and four House members on a military plane to the Munich Security Conference on Friday.

    ***But when he heard the flight had been pushed back to give the senators time to vote on Oklahoma Attorney General Scott Pruitt’s confirmation, he took matters into his own hands and booked a commercial flight departing Thursday night.

    “I have been going to this conference for 40 years, and I told them months ago that I was going,” McCain told Politico…
    “I have a speech to give tomorrow at the conference that I was committed” to, he said. “Everybody else is going after the vote.”…
    Pruitt is expected to make it through his confirmation vote with relative ease, even without McCain’s vote…
    http://thehill.com/homenews/senate/320021-john-mccain-will-skip-scott-pruitt-vote-to-head-to-germany-conference-report

    01

  • #
    pat

    much to read down the page:

    17 Feb: UK Telegraph: Boris Johnson attacks Tony Blair’s ‘bare-faced effrontery’ after former PM urges Remainers to ‘rise up’ against Brexit
    By Steven Swinford, Deputy Political Editor and Leon Watson
    LINK: Read Tony Blair’s Open Britain speech in full here
    Boris Johnson has attacked Tony Blair for showing “contempt” to British voters after the former Prime Minister warned the UK is heading for “Brexit at any cost”.
    In a keynote speech, Mr Blair urged Remain voters to “rise up” against the Government’s drive for Brexit, which will cause “real damage” to Britain and the embitterment of future generations.
    Speaking at the headquarters of the Bloomberg financial news agency in London where David Cameron first set out his plan for an in/out vote on Britain’s EU membership, he issued a rallying cry against the referendum vote which was “based on imperfect knowledge”…
    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/02/17/tony-blair-eu-brexit-mission-remainers-live/

    17 Feb: Breitbart: Jack Montgomery: Brexit U-Turn: Average Growth Forecast Has Tripled Since Referendum
    Forecasts by the Bank of England, the United Kingdom’s state-owned central bank, have proven particularly volatile. Governor Mark Carney slashed predicted growth to 0.8 per cent after the Brexit vote, before quietly revising upwards to first 1.4 per cent and then 2 per cent…
    Carney, a Canadian national and long-time Goldman Sachs employee, came under fire during the referendum for appearing to weigh in on the side of the Remain campaign and former Chancellor of the Exchequer George Osborne when he claimed that a Leave vote “could” plunge Britain into a technical recession.
    In reality, the United Kingdom proved to be the fastest growing G7 economy of 2016, defying forecasters to grow by 0.6 per cent in the final three months of the year…
    In addition, wage growth is outpacing inflation.
    Confidence has risen sharply in the commercial world, with only 15 per cent of bosses surveyed by the Institute of Directors still predicting a fall in revenue compared to 2016.
    Small and medium-sized businesses are also confident for the year ahead, with 57 per cent anticipating net annual profits of four per cent per over the next three years. Twenty-two per cent anticipate net annual profits over eight per cent…
    http://www.breitbart.com/london/2017/02/17/brexit-u-turn-average-growth-forecast-tripled-since-referendum/

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    farmerbraun

    Gotta beat Eric Worrall to the draw on this one.
    The N.Z. Listener, out today, breathlessly announces – Asthma Epidemics caused by Climate Change look set to become More Common.
    Far canal :-)

    10

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    pat

    17 Feb: USBlastingNews: Thomas Richard: Fact-checking Al Gore’s controversial, apocalyptic climate conference
    Gore’s future is one of extreme weather, crop shortages, and deadly heat waves: fiery rhetoric or more fake news?
    Despite having a 10-year record of failed climate predictions, Gore blamed everything from contagious diseases to food shortages to #Extreme Weather on global warming…
    Every night on TV, he said, was like a “hike through the Book of Revelations,” his favorite refrain. But Gore was misleading the attendees and the media as he often does in his movies and lectures…READ ON
    http://us.blastingnews.com/news/2017/02/fact-checking-al-gore-s-controversial-apocalyptic-climate-conference-001480419.html

    16 Feb: BT.com: Press Association: US scientists attack Trump government over policies and ‘alternative facts’
    President Donald Trump’s administration has been savaged by two leading members of the US scientific community over “alternative” facts, climate change, gagging orders and the travel ban.
    Professor Barbara Schaal, president of the American Association for the Advancement of Science (AAAS), and colleague Dr Rush Holt stressed the importance of unrestricted international travel for scientists who need to collaborate on projects.
    They also spoke out strongly against the apparent willingness of US government officials to adopt an Orwellian approach to factual evidence, down-play the importance of climate change and restrict public access to information…
    Prof Schaal, a former scientific adviser to ex-president Barack Obama, said: “The fact that there could be a conversation about alternative facts is deeply disturbing.
    “This kind of conversation where evidence is discarded, where it’s modified, where it’s morphed, where it’s discounted, is very, very concerning.”…
    Prof Schaal urged her fellow scientists to “push back” against alternative facts.
    “Every time there’s something that’s wrong its very important that we just say ‘this is not true, this is false’,” she said.

    Dr Holt, AAAS chief executive and executive publisher of the prestigious Science family of scientific journals, also hit out at the twisting of evidence, saying: “When officials use phrases like alternative facts you know you’ve got a problem.”
    Both were speaking at the launch of this year’s AAAS conference in Boston, Massachusetts, the world’s biggest general science meeting…
    Prof Schaal said: “If climate science is shut down it’s very important that scientists make a very strong case, a very compelling case, a clear case, that climate science is extraordinarily important for the future of nations and for the future of the globe.”
    Dr Rush(sic) added: “I would say scientists have to redouble their efforts. Sometimes that will require courage. There is as yet no clampdown on climate science in the US government. I would say there has been no indication that it will thrive.
    “No-one has said how important climate science is to the wellbeing of current and future generations, so that gives people grounds for concern. Its too important to let biased or uninformed views stop it.”
    http://home.bt.com/news/world-news/us-scientists-attack-trump-government-over-policies-and-alternative-facts-11364151746987

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  • #
    Robber

    Due to the amount of interest in the Independent Review into the Security of the National Electricity Market (led by Dr Finkel), and the large number of requests for extensions of time to make submissions, the submission period has been extended and is now open until 5pm AEDT Friday 3 March 2017.
    Read their preliminary report to see their questions, and submit your comments.

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    • #
      Robert Rosicka

      As if they would give you a straight answer if you posed a question that hurt the mantra .
      Noticed the SA govt is being asked questions about the $192 million dollars wind and solar project in Coober Pedy .
      No tender called and estimates are it could have been done at half the cost and without the massive subsidies .
      But the govt will save over $5 million bucks in diesel power generation costs over the next twenty years though .
      At first I thought these figures were wrong but then remembered it is a labor govt so it’s probably correct , spend $192 mil to save $5 mil .

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    Ernest Bush

    As a US citizen I look at your growing power problems and think Phew! we dodged that bullet. Unfortunately, California, already dependent on power from surrounding states, continues to walk off a cliff, when it comes to power generation. I live in Arizona and won’t be surprised if we go down when Southern California goes dark. It’s like you have to be insane to be a progressive. The real irony is that the cost of repairing the damaged Oroville dam in that state is so large, Governor Moonbeam has had to go begging for tax money from the rest of us to do repairs, after trashing Trump all over the place. The rest of us, at this point, could care less if California decided to split off from the rest of the Union. We could build a wall and ship the rest of the illegal aliens over there.

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