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Big win: Turnbull wasted billions, but now backs super critical coal, copies skeptics 5 years later

Back in 2011 Anton Lang, Tony Cox, and I wrote here about why Australia would be better off with super critical hot coal generators (which China already uses, and which even Indonesia will get before us). Not only do we get cheap reliable power, but it would be a better way to reduce our emissions (if we want to pretend to change the weather).

Now, finally, in 2017 Malcolm Turnbull is saying the same thing as the skeptics he mocked years ago. This is how the “climate meme” dies, one unacknowledged step at a time. Gradually all the skeptical positions get picked up, years later and after burning billions at the altar of “climate control”. This is a big win for skeptics, but don’t expect Turnbull or the ABC to be honest enough to say so. This marks a major turning point in the discussion about coal in Australia which has mostly never got past the “coal is dying” and the “stranded assets” inanity which implied that coal has no future and our massive coal reserves were useless instead of being our major export industry.

Last week Tony Abbott, former PM, called for stop to subsidies for wind power – an end to the RET (Renewables Energy Target) certificates which stop normal competition in the electrical market and force us all to buy a power we don’t want at prices far higher than we need to pay. This week, with no acknowledgement that Tony Abbott is right, Turnbull does a major about face.  He calls this “cleaner coal” but it has nothing to do with the futile fantasy of carbon capture. It is the newer high tech coal which Greens will hate (because it works and it solves the fake problem they pretend to worry about).

Turnbull backs cleaner coal for hitting renewable target

As revealed in The Australian yesterday, research commissioned by the Turnbull government has estimated the country’s emissions would be cut by up to 27 per cent if coal-based power generation ran on “ultra-super-critical-technology” used in other parts of the world.

Carried out by the Department of Industry, Innovation and Science, the research showed emissions would be reduced even further — by up to 34 per cent — if the technology now in development was adopted across Australia.

Turnbull attacks wind power now, but he didn’t warn about that train wreck coming as skeptics did:

Mr Turnbull acknowledged coal would be part of the world’s energy mix “for a very, very long time” as he attacked the Labor state of South Australia, which generates 40 per cent of its energy through wind, for having the “most expensive and the least reliable electricity” in the country.

If Turnbull had said this in 2009 he would have been PM in 2010 and we would have saved billions and have cheap electricity now:

“We are the biggest coal exporter in the world. If anybody, if any country has a vested interest in demonstrating that clean coal and cleaner coal with new technologies can make a big contribution to our energy mix and at the same time reduce our emissions in net terms — it’s us,” Mr Turnbull said.

Here is Turnbull pretending to be pragmatic about energy, but the only thing Turnbull is somewhat pragmatic about is his own political position:

“Our approach, and my approach, to energy is absolutely pragmatic and practical … Renewables have a role. Fossil fuels have a role. Every type of energy — storage, all of it — has an important role to play.”

The new coal plants cut emissions by 50% “compared with existing plants” (presumably the oldest brown power stations) and are as “clean” as gas plants says the Minerals Council of Australia using the Department of Industries projections. Bear in mind that this in itself is hugely important — wholesale coal power is 3 to 4 c KWhr.  (I don’t know the cost of new “hot” coal power because those big plants cost a lot to build). But gas is 7 to 8 c per KWhr.  More coal power means much cheaper electricity.

How much do we thank Donald Trump for this transformation? A whole lot. The writing is on the wall, Australia will lose more jobs, profits and companies to the US if they have cheap energy, and that is one of Trumps absolute priorities.  Now if we can just kill off the RET.

 

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162 comments to Big win: Turnbull wasted billions, but now backs super critical coal, copies skeptics 5 years later

  • #
    James Bradley

    God bless America and the day Trump was inaugurated.

    584

    • #
      Oliver K. Manuel

      Yes, we were richly blessed to have a real choice this election.

      132

    • #
      James Bradley

      The 20th January should be celebrated world wide each year as Freedom Day.

      154

      • #
        ЯΞ√ΩLUT↑☼N

        Kinda silly. Without any reference to The One that provided that “freedom”, it could refer to Obummer. I’m all for your enthusiasm, but let’s not rush headlong into maturbatory blindness just yet, because that’s precisely what the Dummocrats did 8 years ago and we know how that turned out.

        27

      • #

        Let’s wait and see what ensues. I fully support what Trump represents and what he has said he’ll do, but the only way to judge intent is with deeds and outcomes.

        I don’t think we should put him on a pedestal too early; afterall, Obama received a Nobel Prize before he’d barely sat in the White House.

        31

  • #

    I’ll believe it when I see it.

    95

    • #
      John PAK

      Here,here.
      Mr “Yes we can” Obama sounded great for the first few weeks too. Perhaps he meant “Yes, we can stuff America”

      103

      • #

        Lord Waffleworth has been consistently big on talk, but very small on action. With the attention span of a gnat, the backbone of a jellyfish and the commitment of a philanderer, I wonder what his next grand announcement will be?

        152

  • #
    BigMax

    Donald is rattling the cage from Day 1! Cannot wait to see the man made climate change gig come crashing down.

    403

    • #
      Oliver K. Manuel

      Yes, the entire consensus science” scam will vanish overnight if Mr. Trump instructs the US NAS (National Academy of Sciences) to either

      1. Honestly explain to the public how neutron repulsion powers the Sun and sustains human life,
      _ a.) Holding every atom, life and planet in constant harmonic vibration,
      _ b.) Discharging energy and solar wind hydrogen to interstellar space as waste products,
      _ c.) With regular deep-seated magnetic fields protruding through the photosphere as sunspot cycles, and
      _ d.) Coronal mass ejections and super-solar storms resetting human civilization every ~1,000 years, or

      2. Face prosecution as traitors who betrayed public trust and endangered public safety for personal benefit

      142

      • #
        Oliver K. Manuel

        The primary purpose for seventy-two years of consensus science was to hide from the public the source of energy in atomic bombs – NEUTRON REPULSION – with Dr. Carl von Weizsacker’s illogical definition of “nuclear binding energy.”

        That error probably prevented Weizsacker from building an atomic bomb for Hitler during WWII;

        It destroyed the foundation of astronomy, astrophysics, climatology, cosmology and nuclear physics worldwide after WWII, but . . .

        It was recognized by a 19-year old student at the Imperial University of Tokyo on 13 June 1936: KAZUO KURODA

        https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/10640850/TRIBUTE_TO_KURODA.pdf

        10

    • #
      Ted O'Brien.

      He has already created space for “sceptics” to work in without getting smothered.

      152

      • #
        stan stendera

        MODS, JO MIGHT BE INTERESTED IN THIS.

        President Trump has shut down the EPA for making any new contracts and for communicating in any way until the Donald’s people get in control. Other federal agencies connected to AGW are similarly affected.

        302

        • #
          Oliver K. Manuel

          The same rule needs to apply to all federal research agencies that misused public funds to take control of government policy and totalitarian control of all humanity: CDC, DOE, NASA, NOAA, etc., etc.

          72

        • #
          PeterPetrum

          Guess who’s in charge! I love a politician leader who makes promises and keeps them.

          102

        • #
          Oliver K. Manuel

          Fifty-six years ago, in JAN 1961, departing President Dwight D. Eisenhower warned the public a scientific, technological elite” might use control of federal research funds to take control of government policy!

          https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=GOLld5PR4ts

          That is exactly what the National Academy of Sciences did, by misusing control of annual budget review of federal research agencies for Congress.

          113

  • #
    AndyG55

    How many times has this been said !!!

    I have said MANY times that upgrading our coal fire to modern tech would provide a far greater CO2 cut than any crazy renewable plan could.

    605

    • #
      Andrew

      Dunno but I said it when A666ott brought out Direct Action. An immediate 30% cut in electricity sector emissions for a tiny contribution from the public purse. Naturally being a good idea it was never even considered.

      Would the man in te street have accepted the argument “Gillard’s massive tax cut emissions 1%, here’s a proven 15% immediately? Or are they too poisoned by Big Wind?

      132

      • #
        Ted O'Brien.

        The cut in electricity sector emissions include shutting down a large part of our aluminium industry.

        And don’t fail to note that the closure of Hazelwood will lower the lid on Australian industry generally.

        132

    • #
      Albert

      True, had we switched to the modern coal fired power stations that China was using many years ago we would have exceeded targets and still made to difference to climate, LOL

      112

    • #
      Graham Richards

      What ever happened to “fluidised bed” boiler technology. It also required very high grade coal to reduce emissions efficiently?

      12

      • #
        Mark D.

        Fluidized bed burners are also very good at burning all kinds of garbage-converting it into valuable heat. Sadly it was determined that burying the garbage was somehow better.

        32

  • #
    RobK

    The only place for renewables is for unsubsidized self consumption and on utility scale by providing unsubsidized heat or feedstock (say H2) into more conventional spinning reserve plant. If non dispatchable power is offered to the grid, it should be paid the lowest price since it is the least useful.

    293

  • #
    Asp

    The return of the Prodigal Son?
    There shall not be greater rejoicing in heaven than for…………
    I do not care much about motivation. What actually gets done is what matters.

    192

  • #
    AndyG55

    What has to happen is the removal of the RET. Battling against subsidised renewables and crazy feed-in tariffs and mandates, does not give the coal power companies the incentive to update their systems. ‘

    They need an absolute guarantee of a level playing field over a considerable length of time.

    484

    • #
      AndyG55

      And they need the Green THUGS and the Union THUGS to get out the way….

      .. but the whole country needs that.!!

      516

      • #
        scaper...

        And disconnect all the home solar arrays from the grid.

        233

      • #
        AndyG55

        [snip about red thumbs.]

        102

      • #
        Dennis

        And to dump Fair (unfair) Work Australia industrial relations legislation created and crafted by Minister Gillard and go back to the previous new legislation which with some minor changes needed was a blueprint for the IT Age following the Industrial Age ending in the 1990s here: Work Choices, sovereign individuals or contractors replacing employees in many or most areas and looking after their own benefits from a decent hourly rate of pay.

        The unions fought against Work Choices because they cannot herd contractors like they bully big business employees.

        123

    • #
      Geoff Sherrington

      Andy,
      And we need governments and bureaucrats to bugger off out of the energy sector, a sector that the past has shown from time to time to fit with private enterprise like a hand in a glove.
      The classic features of supply/demand, competition, efficiency, innovation/invention, public good – these are so well understood and executed when cut free of tape, that there is no reason of any merit to shackle the market with bureaucratic lead in the saddle.
      All of this was known, casebook history, as was the optimum choice of an energy mix for Australia, when my work first got me involved in energy matters in the early 1970s.
      The subsequent contribution of governments has been essentially negative, to try to deny what seemed self- evident truths. Why? Why?
      Geoff

      292

      • #
        Ted O'Brien.

        Geoff. Governments to b..off.

        Look at Victoria’s Hazelwood. What were the intended consequences of privatisation?

        In privatising the power stations and imposing political requirements, the government has created a situation where it is to the advantage of the private owners to restrict power generation. By generating less power in this artificially restricted market, they can make bigger profits by way of higher prices.

        I wonder how many politicians/bureaucrats writing the sale contracts understood that?

        122

        • #
          Ted O'Brien.

          Geoff. This line of yours is worth repeating.

          Australia is in a set of ideological energy imposts that would be hard to invent to show greater economic stupidity. We cannot do it much worse.

          172

        • #
          Geoff Sherrington

          Ted,
          I mean unfettered private enterprise, not the type that is hobbled by bureaucrats, allowing abnormal circumstances that the public can and should criticise. But these are not made by private enterprise. They are products of the non-productive meddlers, who should cop the blame.
          Geoff

          10

    • #
      Ted O'Brien.

      The RET, the Al Gore impost.

      There should be a Royal Commission to determine just how Al Gore persuaded Clive Palmer to protect the RET.

      142

      • #
        ЯΞ√ΩLUT↑☼N

        A Royal Commission just takes too long and costs far too much of our money. I believe the KGB have little to do right now.

        32

    • #
      Ken Lloyd

      Yes, the RET is like a millstone around the neck of the electricity generating industry. I wish our politicians would just dump this irritating load of nonsense for once and for all.

      32

  • #
    scaper...

    Yesterday, Barnaby Joyce, when asked, would not rule out dumping the RET but does not want to get out of the Paris agreement.

    Snake oil salesman! Meanwhile One Nation is targeting National seats. Why am I reminded of the Democrats.

    362

    • #
      el gordo

      ‘Snake oil salesman!’

      Barnaby is not a splitter, mores the pity, he’s hanging out for the infrastructure bonanza in the bush.

      State of the art coal fired power stations, water security through canals, VFT and new satellite cities, should silence One Nation.

      133

      • #
        scaper...

        Turnbull’s handmaiden.

        102

      • #
        AndyG55

        The way Barnaby is doing nothing, and being a total wusssss…

        … he is basically ensuring a One-Nation up-surge next election.

        [snip yelling] Barnaby.

        You are coming across as the S.H.Y of the once relevant National Party.

        232

        • #
          el gordo

          Barnaby sways with the wind, all the time uttering lip service, he’s a typical career politician.

          The Trump Effect will start a conversation in the MSM which should reverberate around the world, eliminate subsidies because there is no evidence that CO2 causes global warming.

          Talcum and his handmaiden will need to lift their game and quick, because Malcolm Roberts is already suited up and only waits for the word from Donald the Great.

          Let the intellectual revolution begin!

          302

          • #
            scaper...

            Malcolm recently returned from touring the west on a listening tour, especially in Barnaby’s old stomping ground. Was very productive.

            Pauline did same in North Queensland. Hehehehehe

            192

            • #
              el gordo

              Listening to the people is okay, but that’s what the all career politicians do, nodding their heads sagely.

              Roberts discovered that the bushy’s main concerns are matters dealing with tax and labour.

              The ten day gig must have been fairly strenuous, he had an emergency hernia operation. along the way.

              82

              • #
                scaper...

                Malcolm discovered just how bad the red tape is affecting the farmers. The global warming tentacles are inhibiting their ability to manage and develop their land!

                He did not have the op then. Was discharge about twenty minutes ago.

                102

              • #
              • #
                el gordo

                So its a battle over the RET and further south its also ‘water buybacks’, which cost the taxpayers $8 billion based only on the precautionary principle.

                Alright they may have a chance of winning the balance of power if the Coalition remains intransigent, and a swing to One Nation in Qld would send alarm bells ringing in Coalition ranks around the country.

                72

        • #
          AndyG55

          “[snip yelling]” .

          If someone is asleep at the wheel, you have to yell really loud to wake them up !!

          72

          • #
            Ted O'Brien.

            #8. An awfully long thread of nonsense.

            Barnaby Joyce is deputy Prime Minister, with a heavy responsibility to that job. It would be grossly irresponsible for him to canvas policy change on the run.

            You can be sure that he is a key player in the policies that the Turnbull government is running with or not running with, including the backing of super critical coal. You should take note that to date the Senate has made it impossible to make some changes, e.g. abolishing the RET, and other spending cuts.

            What will make a difference in the future of partisan politics is the state of the agricultural/rural economy. I hold fears for grain in the immediate future, especially if Trump and others cut subsidies for biofuels, but beef and sheep meat are operating at more cheerful price levels, and wool may be at last clawing back from the destruction that the Howard government inflicted on it. But just now there are upsides in view, and a happy electorate will not vote down the National Party.

            73

            • #
              el gordo

              Ted the Orange debacle left the teflon Premier in serious danger, which is one of the reasons he quit.

              Don’t underestimate the ability and determination of farmers and graziers to bring about a political revolution, especially If Fairfax rural is eventually sold to the Chinese.

              42

              • #
                Ted O'Brien.

                The farmers and graziers are represented by the National Farmers’ Federation. The NFF employs and defers to the advice of people who have been educated by the same academies as all the rest.

                As did the National Party under Fischer, Anderson and all stations to Truss.

                There are indeed farmers who are wise, knowledgeable people. In NSW, the “educated” leadership kicked them out.

                62

              • #
                el gordo

                The NFF has long been a supporter of the global warming theory and now they embrace the FCA into their ranks.

                http://www.abc.net.au/news/2016-11-23/nff-link-with-farmers-for-climate-action/8049846

                They have lost the plot and One Nation will exploit their ignorance.

                62

          • #
            FarmerDoug2

            But you’re yelling at me,us, not him.
            Doug

            00

      • #
        Dennis

        Coalition plan to extend the Ord River irrigation zone in WA across the top end of Australia, CSIRO have identified potential farming land about the area of western Europe, just add water from the big rivers that Labor attempted to lock up using their wild rivers legislation that PM Abbott and Premier Newman of QLD managed to overturn.

        102

    • #
      Crakar24

      If they dump the ret the cost of erected wind turbine would rival that of scrap metal. Barnaby most likely has financial friends heavily invested in the scrap

      202

      • #
        clive

        As does the “Unions”super funds.If the RET crashes,so does the windmill and solar,which will send the super funds crashing.That’s what happens when you let”Thugs”look after your money.And guess what,the Governments on both sides of the isle let it happen.

        92

        • #
          Ted O'Brien.

          Better now than later. Though I suspect that avoiding this might be the prime motivator in Malcolm Turnbull’s AGW policy thinking.

          10

    • #
      Mark M

      Deputy prime minister Barnaby Joyce faces the reality of [Doomsday Global Warming]

      It was the moment Deputy Prime Minister Barnaby Joyce, a renowned [Doomsday Global Warming] sceptic, confronted the reality of global warming.

      “When I look at this,” he says, shaking his head, “I start to wonder whether [Doomsday Global Warming] might really be happening.”

      http://www.smh.com.au/national/deputy-prime-minister-barnaby-joyce-faces-the-reality-of-climate-change-20160520-gozlh3.html

      Barnaby Joyce- 7.30 report, abc:

      “We’re going to meet our commitments to the Paris Protocol. In fact, we’re gonna out do it!” (6.13 sec)

      [ http://www.abc.net.au/7.30/content/2016/s4587509.htm ]

      22

      • #
        Allen Ford

        From that SMH article of May 21 2016:

        Robson writes in the Good Weekend this Saturday that not for the first time, Mr Joyce anguished over how much work the place needs. At one stage, he writes, I notice him standing beside the ever-diminishing creek, near his one-time childhood Hobbit hole, looking as though he might cry.

        I wonder what that Hobbit hole is doing today, diminishing even further or running a banker from all that rain that has fallen in the meantime, and whether Barnaby is still on the verge of tears.

        Droughts have happened before, Barnaby, and will again, with zero help from anthropomorphic CO2.

        Dry those tears!

        62

    • #
      Rereke Whakaaro

      What say a bunch of politicians introduce a whole lot of additional costs on the supply of energy (which we all need), in order to adjust the demand and supply curve, which pushes the retail costs up to levels where it really starts to hurt the general population?

      Then they have an epiphany, and decide to revert to a better way of producing energy, that is more reliable, and costs a lot less in terms of wholesale generation, but strangely only marginally less at the retail level.

      Would that bunch of politicians think that was a neat idea?

      41

  • #
    philthegeek

    Oh well. That scuppers coal then. Lord Truffles of Wentworth is behind it so its now remarkably unlikely to happen.

    152

  • #
    pat

    kudos to AFR for publishing – top spot on the letters page:

    24 Jan: AFR: Letter to the Editor: Renewables target threatens Queensland economy
    As we wait to see if Queensland’s Ergon Energy’s proposed new tariffs are approved by the Australian Energy Regulator, sending summer power costs surging again, people are looking for reliable and affordable power as a key to household and business budgets in 2017 and beyond…

    I worry that the idea that Queensland could achieve a target of 50 per cent of electricity generated by renewable energy by 2030 is more about ideology than delivering cost-effective power to Queenslanders. Such a target would again drive up electricity prices for households and businesses. It would also destroy the value of most of the electricity assets held by the government.
    Queensland could turn to the next generation of coal-fired power stations to generate more domestic electricity…
    Ultra-supercritical power plants operate at higher temperatures and pressures to generate steam and turn turbines more efficiently and are in use and more are being established around the world…
    Kerry Latter, CEO
    CANEGROWERS Mackay, Qld
    http://www.afr.com/opinion/letters-to-the-editor/coal-power-fake-news-and-gst-20170124-gtxlv3

    222

  • #
    pat

    24 Jan: NewcastleHerald (Fairfax): Nathan Vass: PM backs clean coal future for Hunter, state
    (Nathan Vass is a former energy sector executive who established the Australian Power Project to promote sustainable national energy policy)
    The Prime Minister expressed his support for clean coal, something he first did in 2009 when visiting the Hunter, which is home to world-leading clean coal research at the University of Newcastle through Professor Terry Wall and his team.
    This work is crucial for the Hunter, the coal capital of Australia, with the region responsible for one third of Australia’s exports via the world’s largest coal port, as well as playing a crucial role in turning locally mined coal into the energy that powers NSW and parts of Queensland and Victoria…

    South Australia reached a similar fork in the energy road several years ago and elected not to build new coal fired power stations. Instead, in the words of their Premier Jay Weatherill, they elected to “experiment” with wind power. Within months the consequences of this decision were painfully and expensively revealed…

    It is crucial that the NSW Government learn from the mistakes of their SA counterparts, as they start planning for the day when the Hunter’s coal fired power stations inevitably enter the decommissioning phase. While renewables will play a major role in building Australia’s clean energy future, now is not the time to abandon our coal resources, costing thousands of jobs in the Hunter and possibly doubling energy bills, according to the Intergovernmental Panel for Climate Change, which says clean coal must be part of keeping global temperature rises below 2 degrees…

    In Japan for example where much of the Hunter’s coal ends up, the city of Yokohama is powered using a state of the art ultra-super critical power plant that emits 25 per cent less carbon than the traditional power plants that exist in the Hunter. It’s a similar story in China, Germany and the US.
    If the Hunter, and indeed NSW, is to avoid the energy crisis now unfolding in SA, the new Premier of NSW must quickly join the Prime Minister in supporting the roll out of clean coal generated electricity.
    http://www.theherald.com.au/story/4419047/pm-backs-clean-coal-future-for-hunter-state/

    DailyAdvertiser Wagga Wagga (Fairfax): (Keith) Wheeler’s Wisdom | OPINION, January 23, 2017
    Glencore’s Collinsville Coal Mine is recruiting workers, Adani wants to start construction works this year on its Carmichael coal and rail project and has announced its regional headquarters will be in Townsville. Stanmore Coal has also started mining at Isaac Plain near Mackay.
    “Federal Resources Minister Matt Canavan said the price of thermal coal had doubled and coking coal prices had tripled, creating strong market conditions,” adding that, “Adani’s rail project would open up further mining projects in the Galilee Basin, with companies such as MacMines and Waratah Coal keen to begin projects.In the 2015-16 financial year, the natural resources sector contributed $330 million to the Townsville economy and supported more than 2000 jobs.“…
    Australia is the world’s largest exporter of coal, adding $40 billion to the economy. Without coal exports, Australia’s economy could plunge into immediate prolonged recession…

    Dawson MP, George Christensen, has called for money from the Federal Government’s $5 billion Northern Australia Infrastructure Fund to be made available to build one of the new reduced-emissions “supercritical” coal-fired baseload power stations in North Queensland. The acting mayor Les Walker gave the typical ideological response.
    “It is an idea 10 years too late,” Cr Walker said. “Companies like zinc refinery Sun Metals were leading the way in new energy solutions for the city with the announcement of their solar farm.”
    Here are the facts, Cr Walker. I wrote this column on Thursday night. On Thursday in Queensland, solar didn’t get past 50 per cent capacity until 9am, and dropped below 50 per cent by 6pm. At night Queenslanders need baseload power…

    As Minister Matt Canavan pointed out, Japan is building ultra-supercritical clean coal plants that produce 40 per cent less emissions, using Australian high quality coal. Why shouldn’t we consider building them here? Last Thursday Queensland’s Windy Hill was producing 50 per cent of capacity at 9am, but dropped by midday to below 20 per cent, rising to 50 per cent again by 9pm. Queensland currently can generate only 4 per cent of its needs from wind, and that’s on a very windy day. Mrs Palaszczuk’s dream of 50 per cent renewables is a mischievous promise…
    http://www.dailyadvertiser.com.au/story/4416206/coal-exports-nations-economic-protector/

    162

    • #
      Graeme No.3

      pat: comments on relevant stories in The Australian have been running strongly against renewables. Most commentators have grasped that the RET pushes up prices and the way out is either USC coal or nuclear. The usual suspects, sillyfilly and Patricia have been trying to stem the flood to little avail. If the Government has been reading the comments they would have received an almighty boot up the backside.
      I have added my little bit pointing out that Germany, despite installing 25,000 wind turbines, PV solar everywhere and interconnections to most of Europe and huge electricity cost rises has only managed to reduce emissions by 1% in the last 7 years.

      The RET has to go, and go soon. As S.A. has proved get the % renewables up enough and they drive other methods out of business, but still don’t work when things turn bad.

      342

  • #
    KinkyKeith

    As Andy says above, there is little point advocating new supercritical technology when the financial structure of the current power system remains as a disincentive.

    Let “renewables” stand on their own abilities to create electricity that is affordable and cost effective.

    The time for consumer subsidisation of this experiment is over.

    Any further exploration of renewables must be done by universities and or CSIRO.

    We need to make CSIRO great again.

    KK

    132

    • #

      CSIRO was one of the agencies that developed USC technology. I had a copy of their publication on the subject, but can’t find either the printed or the electronic copy.
      Time for another search. Probably no point looking on the CSIRO website, but there must be a copy somewhere …

      112

      • #
        mikewaite

        Martin , Did CSIRO patent any of their work on USC technology ? If so , given its adoption everywhere (but its birthplace)
        CSIRO could be eligible for handsome royalties perhaps.
        At any rate the patent literature is one archive that can surely never be “homogenised”, “misplaced” or “accidentally deleted”.

        82

        • #

          “Did CSIRO patent any of their work on USC technology?”
          Not sure. This was back in the 90s, and I think it was in partnership with industry.
          The chance was often missed. Back then James Chook Uni developed a vibration test device (for very large bearings) that cost about $2 to make. Ok throw in another $4 for a 9v battery and a plastic case. It was superior to an existing device costing something like $2,500. They gave it away.

          62

  • #
    Shauno

    It will only be 3c to 4c per kWh if they don’t have to compete with subsidized renewable power as commented above. The crazy thing is instead of getting rid of the RET etc they make actually subsidize the new coal power plants so they can compete with the subsidized renewables. Just insane.

    192

    • #
      AndyG55

      IMO.. a loan, to be repaid at a percentage of revenue would be the VERY best incentive for the upgrading of the coal-fired power stations.

      Everybody wins.. except renewables. :-)

      Australians get the security and low price of power they deserve. We have probably the highest quality thermal coal in the world, we should be using it to its fullest.

      Government gets their money back, something that will never happen with renewables.

      Power companies get the security they need, or the loan is not repaid.
      That means that future governments will not dare to change the agreement because revenue will disappear.

      We are a blessed country.. if only the powers that be would realise that fact, and the regressive, far-left greenies would get the F out the way.

      203

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    Crakar24

    This is an about face of grand proportions and further cemments my view that Turnbull is incompetent.

    The hive minds response

    “You cannot be serious”

    John Mc Enroe 1981 Wimbledon final

    112

  • #
    ianl8888

    It’s painfully clear that Waffle will rabbit on impotently about USC coal plants while not touching the RET but the State Govts hold control over power grid development.

    It’s possible that Trump’s attempts to revive the US economy may work, at least in part with significant reduction in company tax. If so, Aus will be a beggar island unto itself.

    102

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    Denis

    It’s going to be a rapid turnabout for America, and they are going to take the EPA out of the equation.

    162

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    AndrewWA

    I’m not going to hold my breath waiting for Malcolm to actually do something to follow-up on this rhetoric.

    After all it was Malcolm who gave us expensive, short life, low lumen light globes (containing mercury) all to chase shadows about a non-problem.

    And even if there was a global problem nothing that Australia does will make a modicum of difference.

    222

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    doubtingdave

    So will there now be a softening of rhetoric from your leaders in Australia , will those of you sceptics that have advocated clean coal no longer be referred to as deniers , in the spirit of the American election perhaps ” ALT climate science DEPLORABLES ” could be a better identity to label us with .

    92

  • #
    David Maddison

    Super critical coal is superior in a technical sense but I would only support it if there were genuine free market reasons to employ it.

    For example, is the extra cost of construction worthwhile in terms of investment given the low free market price of coal?

    If it can still be justified at free market coal prices, go for it.

    Naturally, saving CO2 emissions is irrelevant, in fact a disadvantage of this technology is that it produces too little CO2 fertiliser.

    122

    • #
      ianl8888

      … is the extra cost of construction worthwhile in terms of investment given the low free market price of coal?

      Wrong way around, David. The lower price of coal is good for generators, not so much for miners.

      82

      • #
        Shauno

        If the generators own the coal mine next to the power station does the price of coal even matter if its just going straight into the power station?

        92

  • #
    Geoff Sherrington

    Trump announced today that he has targeted 225,000 regulations for demolition, to reduce regulation to a quarter of present numbers.
    How many more of these clear, future-setting examples does Trump have to proclaim before our crowd in Canberra finally gets the message?
    Geoff

    273

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    David Maddison

    For those who may be interested I wrote an article on supercritical and ultrasupercritical steam coal powered electricity production in the December 2015 Silicon Chip magazine.

    One or more pages of the nine page article can be seen at:

    http://www.siliconchip.com.au/Issue/2015/December/Celsius-fahrenheit+digital+thermometer+with+alarm?res=nonflash

    132

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    Graeme No.3

    Statistics “prove” that at least 97% of our politicians are nongs and frightened by sudden noises e.g. hysterical screams from the Greenies. Progress will appear like treacle flowing down fly paper, but eventual the tip is reached and bingo! The drip falls.

    192

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    Mark

    It is diplomatically useful for Australia to participate in the same wars as our more powerful friends. With the USA we fought the climate, destroying industry, jobs, and wealth. But now our friend has called off the war.

    162

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    KinkyKeith

    Cost?

    Were you thinking of value Craker?

    42

  • #
    aussiepete

    I woke up one morning a few years back and for the first time heard reference to RET’S. Funny i thought, what happened the ERT’S?. Even stupid me could understand that manufacturing/installing RET infrastructure was counter productive, no wonder we dropped ERT’S. At about the same time we were being told about “carbon pollution” and the general population thought that soot was the problem. Regrettably most of the pollies must have believed the same thing. If only they had paid a bit more attention as 15 year olds to their chemistry teachers we could we could have been spared many billions of dollars and the blight of windmills and solar farms on the landscape.
    History will surely record that at least the first half of the twenty first century truly was the age of stupid.

    123

  • #

    I am very happy that reality is getting through.

    I am holding a meetup this Friday evening in Melbourne’s CBD to discuss this climate nonsense.

    Please join up and try to show up. It is free.

    https://www.meetup.com/Fake-News-an-international-perspective/

    If nothing else, the beer is German and excellent. :=)

    114

  • #
    hunter

    Once again skeptics are proven yo he correct.

    72

  • #
    John PAK

    Rumour has it that a lecturer at Perth Uni (Au) is working on a hydrogen oxygen unit for Indian coal-fired units. Using a small amount of electricity to split water to feed H & O in with the air injection would cause a higher temperature furnace with fewer incomplete combustion residues. Pity he’s not working for Au in this matter.

    112

    • #
      AndyG55

      Maybe India will be building our upgraded power stations :-)

      82

    • #

      John PAK,

      All these things have been tried before. The Germans have always been the world’s best chemists – and they ended up turning to wind turbines and crap like that.

      104

    • #
      David Maddison

      Is this technology compliant with the laws of thermodynamics?

      52

      • #
        John PAK

        On the face of it you use up generated power to split water to make H & O (with some efficiency losses) and then burn it again. Sounds like a waste of time cos you always get less energy back than you put in.
        In reality a coal furnace combusts less than 100% of the coal for a variety of reasons. Hydrogen has a high flame temperature in air (~2200ºC) and with extra Oxygen, 2900º is achievable. This hotter flame enables more of the coal mass to oxidise so you can extract more heat energy from a given mass of coal. The difference is marginal but with to-day’s more efficient electrolysis units it might be worth researching.
        In general terms you want 600ºC steam at >4000psi out of your “boiler” and anything that can push the margins should be looked at.
        Back in the late 1970s the UK’s Advanced Gas-cooled Reactors produced 640º liquid CO2 but the UKAEA were working on an 800º liquid helium unit as this offered more efficient steam production. I’m sure if we pushed engineers to design higher temperature steam from coal units we’d see more progress but here in Au coal is “dirt cheap” and Mt Piper NSW sells electricity for only 4 cents a kWHr so there is little incentive and in a small economy like Au no-one wants to front up the money for a new coal unit.

        00

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    PeterS

    Not sure if Turnbull has caught up with the news but thanks to the Trump revolution socialism and the climate change scam are now dead. If the LNP don’t wake up to those two facts by the time we have the next election they will be toast. So will the Greens and the ALP. That leaves One Nation. We are going to see some remarkable changes over the coming years, good and bad.

    152

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  • #
    ianl8888

    O/T, but the UK Gov has lost its’ Brexit appeal, as predicted.

    This means the UK Parliament must vote on any exit proposal or invocation of Article 50. As we feared, the judges have circumvented the plebiscite. Little people are not allowed to decide big things.

    191

  • #

    Maybe Turnbull is looking for non-luvvie support, now that the ABC/Posh Left/Urban Green relationship is getting limp. Even the week-day tennis ladies of Wentworth are beginning to murmur.

    Not many people in this world could boost Bill Shorten to the Prime Ministership. Turnbull could do that. Really, he needs to go, and urgently. Not much use speculating about alternative parties if Labor gets to take what’s left of the Australian economy to the pub.

    The priority is removing Turnbull and Bishop in the hope of stopping a Labor government. A drover’s dog will do, anyone who can finish a sentence, pronounce “mate” convincingly, pull a few votes…and who can resist tipping tens of millions into an Obama Foundation or whatever the next fashionable money trough will be. With Shorten in power the whole country will be South Australia. He’ll give major donors a front row seat at coal plant explosions.

    191

    • #
      Robert Rosicka

      Mosomoso
      Bill Shorten is still unpopular and losing support , Turdball is still unpopular and losing support, the greens are a laughing stock and losing support .
      The only beneficiaries are independents and one nation , out of them at least I know where one nation stands .

      91

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    michael hart

    Congratulations, Australia.

    41

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    Roy Hogue

    Renewables: Will they ever learn?

    But at least he seems pointed in a good direction for a change.

    31

  • #
    TdeF

    Ask youself. If you owned a $2.5Bn power station, the largest and cheapest supplier in the electricity market, why would you close it? If you are selling at 3c kw/hr, why not make it 6c and massive profit? Who would care?

    The closure of Hazelwood is a disaster for Australia, Victoria in particular. The Victorian government has used $500Million to keep it open and now it is closing anyway. Renovation to supercritical would be nice in the savings and efficiency, but would someone other than myself please explain why it is closing, why a company would pay $2.5Bn for a power station and close it down? WHen it closes our electricty supply will drop 25% but our charges will go up 25%. Why?

    The only answer is that it cannot make a profit at any price. The RET laws and LGCs. “Wholesale coal power is 3 to 4 c KWhr and gas is 7 to 8 c per KWhr.” More coal power means much cheaper electricity. No it doesn’t.

    LGCs, pieces of paper cost $89 per !Mwhr currently at ‘market’ prices. That’s an extra 9c per kwhr which has to be paid if the electricity retailer wants to buy coal electricity at 3c or gas at 7c . You do not get electricity for that but it not only pays for wind power, the river of cash flows to people who print the LGCs simply for generating, not selling their electricity. Or if they do sell it, they get paid twice. How could you operate any business like that? Paying the restaurant next door for every meal you sell?

    Cosioder if the same massive carbon tax went to renovation of ‘aged’ coal facilities, we would have a far better result for a long term, cheaper and lower CO2 output from our baseload. It is intolerable that coal based electricity producers are being forced out of business by Federal legislation. Hazelwood is gone and the attack on Yallourn began yesterday in the Australian. Then Loy Yang will go and Victoria will have no power at all, unless the wind blows at the right speed.

    Stop the RET. Keep Hazelwood open. Renovate, don’t destroy.

    The RET is not just a ‘target’, it is a massive carbon tax levied on you. Or explain why Hazelwood has to close. Perhaps you have some sensible explanation? (the improvement for supercritical boilers is 28%)

    Coal power generation
    “Typically, large subcritical coal-fired utility plants today produce around 900 kgCO2/MWh. This figure
    becomes higher for high-moisture fuels, or for plants operated at low load factor or of inferior design. This can
    be compared to around 740 kgCO2/MWh for state-of-the-art modern supercritical plants, and potentially
    around 600 kgCO2/MWh for plants with advanced steam conditions that are currently under development.”

    181

    • #
      TdeF

      The original 2000 Act is extremely devious. The only mention of coal is about coal mine waste gas. Carbon is not mentioned once! Otherwise it is a prescription for the rules of the Large Generation Certificates, currently 9c per kw/hr.

      17 What is an eligible renewable energy source?
      followed by a long list including ‘black liquor’ and ‘food producing waste’. Common stuff

      At the end

      the following energy sources are not eligible renewable energy sources:
      (a) fossil fuels;
      (b) materials or waste products derived from fossil fuels.

      At no stage is Carbon mentioned or Carbon Dioxide or petrol or diesel because this is a very devious and massive Carbon Tax which selectively attack the very foundation of modern society, your electricity supply based on fossil fuels. Try running a modern world without electricity.

      RET is not a Renewable Energy Target. It is a Ripoff Electricity Tax.

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    • #

      Great summary as usual TdeF.
      It helps explain how wholesale coal power which sells from 3 to 4 cents KWh ends up in my domestic power bill of +/- 35 cents KWh.
      The replacement of Hazelwood and Yallourn with supercritical units is the obvious way to go, as these stations approach the ends on their useful lives, but only if the criteria is “what’s in the best interest of Victorians”.
      Unfortunately today a few green preferences still dominate the future of Victoria. Who is Matthew Guy again?
      Hopefully Green influence will be reduced as Trump’s unexpected, but timely influence starts to bite.

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      • #
        ianl8888

        The replacement of Hazelwood and Yallourn with supercritical units is the obvious way to go

        Except that deliberate legislation, both State and Federal, combined with a genuinely malicious MSM do their absolute best to prevent that with the fanciful greenie “social licence” consensus nonsense. To date, this technique has been increasingly successful – and it certainly wasn’t unheralded. Accurate summaries of this advancing leprosy have been reiterated for at least 3 decades … but still people voted for it.

        31

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    John in Oz

    I have serious doubts with

    …South Australia, which generates 40 per cent of its energy through wind…

    The wind and solar generation may produce the equivalent of 40% of the power consumed in SA but not necessarily at the same time as it is required as it is not base load nor dispatchable.

    More mis-use of numbers by the CAGW-manic mob.

    110

    • #
      Dennis

      Or is 40 per cent the nameplate capacity of all the wind turbines in SA?

      60

    • #
      Greg Cavanagh

      A 100% coverage of the surface area of SA, and when the wind doesn’t blow it’ll still be zero% power to the grid. They just can’t see it, and I don’t understand why.

      81

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  • #
  • #
    mem

    The Clean Energy Regulator has castigated a major electricity company for choosing to pay a $123 million penalty rather than build or contract new wind or solar power.

    10

    • #
      Analitik

      This will get more widespread as the price of the RECs increase due to shortfalls in meeting the LRET.

      Personally, I prefer the government to collect the fines rather than payments be made to (non-hydro) renewables.

      11

  • #
    PeterS

    Here’s another suggestion for Turnbull. Change the name of the party to something else. The word “Liberal” is getting an extremely bad reputation around the world news lately, and it can only get much worse. I know it does not have the same meaning as it does here but the world news is revolving around what’s going to happen in the US during Trump’s Presidency. So most people around the world will look at the name Liberal Party and instantly they will think (incorrectly – well mostly) leftist fascism, leftists retards, communists and many other bad terms. Better still it’s time for a new party to replace the Liberal Party. They are so full of themselves, arrogant and hopelessly going down the wrong road in so many areas. In some ways they are worse than the ALP and Greens because the Libs are deceptive and often pretend they practice what they preach. At least the ALP and Greens are honest for what they stand for so the people know what to expect. We desperately need a real alternative, not more of the same LNP and ALP+Greens nonsense. Perhaps One Nation is going to provide at least the trigger for such a change.

    51

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    Bulldust

    Interesting piece in The Oz – quantum physicist Michelle Simmons is saying the “feminisation” of physics (students writing essays rather than formulae) is slowly killing the field:

    http://www.theaustralian.com.au/higher-education/feminisation-of-science-a-disaster-leading-quantum-physicist-michelle-simmons-says/news-story/8a432da4bce81e4fb51d91da9bf7a98b

    If you hit the pay wall, simply Google “Feminisation of science a disaster” and follow The Australian’s link.

    31

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    Bulldust

    O/Topic – dang previous post should have been 42… oh well.

    News that is probably unsurprising… The Age and SMHuffPo are going to wind back to weekend print copies only:

    https://thewest.com.au/business/media/fairfax-set-to-outline-plans-to-get-rid-of-weekday-papers-ng-b88365580z

    They are also seeing competition coming in from the NY Times.

    51

    • #
      el gordo

      Wow …. thanks for that.

      Fairfax is also getting rid of their country newspapers, presumably they will remain on line until it becomes a joke. The intellectual property of a small town newspaper is next to worthless if the ads aren’t there to support them.

      Its the end of an era.

      51

      • #
        Dennis

        Faux Facts Group

        41

      • #
        Robert Rosicka

        My small town paper lacks credibility and substance , the latter being a major factor for the bottom of the budgie cage

        30

        • #
          el gordo

          My country newspaper has moved the staff into one small room at the back, while they renovate the main office, which they probably won’t get back after they sell the building.

          10

  • #
    TdeF

    The Reneweable Energy Target, it is NOT about carbon dioxide reduction but designed to fund windmills. It uses heavy taxes on fossil fuels used to generate electricity. It could even be applied to household generators.

    Sure the aim of the Target may be lower CO2 but the RET act is not. Its aim is to shot down all our power stations quickly by bankruptung them as with Hazelwood. Surely lawyer Malcolm would know this. It was a Liberal party Act in 2000.

    If you put in a 4kw generator for your house or supermarket or workshop or farm in 250 days you may need to pay. The Greens will want them stamped out too. The carbon police are coming for you.

    52

    • #
      TdeF

      To be clearer, the RET is not about building so called ‘renewables’, it is about killing coal and petrol and diesel power.
      There is nothing in it about reducing CO2, nothing in it about carbon or carbon dioxide at all but it is all about carbon.

      52

  • #
    TdeF

    Just checked. Owners of solar systems can produce and sell STCs, Small Scale Certificates which can include 15 years of future power and get cash or discounts on their systems. How long will it be before you will pay to keep your freezer going at night on your own generator because the windmill stopped. Or to power a pump with a tractor?

    21

  • #
    Bruce

    Thank you Jo, for putting another smile on my face. Thank you Donald.

    32

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    Dennis

    This policy was first published when Tony Abbott was the leader, it includes the northern irrigation farming plans;

    https://www.liberal.org.au/coalitions-policy-stronger-agriculture-sector

    11

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  • #

    Tiny victories come, step by step, one at a time, but they will roll back the facade of Warmism to reveal the puny men pulling the levers behind the curtain, but they will never adnmit this to be the case, as it would destroy their religious beliefs in Gaia and Global Warming. Similarly Turnbull, Labour, and the ABC will never admit their errors or come clean on the fraud.

    21

  • #
    TdeF

    I would love someone to explain how a turbulent, complex even chaotic 3D system like this can be computer modelled, the earth, wind and oceans and clouds, all interconnected in the most complex system. It is not a golf ball and the oceans are up to 7km deep and everything is moving. That is not possible. It’s hard enough to get this evening’s weather right but we are to believe the future is predictable to high accuracy? No. You cannot see the CO2. It is invisible but you can see so much H2O. All weather is H2O, not CO2, both industrial byproducts and therefore pollutants.

    41

    • #

      TdeF January 25, 2017 at 3:44 pm

      “I would love someone to explain how a turbulent, complex even chaotic 3D system like this can be computer modelled, the earth, wind and oceans and clouds, all interconnected in the most complex system.”

      Such is not modeled by any, except those that wish to scam you of your money! Please help the rest that try to understand, but are confused by Earth’s atmosphere. The most clever of Earthlings, trying to understand, still wonder much about not ‘knowing’.
      “Is it best to scratch watch, or simply wind ass?”

      “It is not a golf ball and the oceans are up to 7km deep and everything is moving. That is not possible. It’s hard enough to get this evening’s weather right but we are to believe the future is predictable to high accuracy?”

      Only by those skilled in selling ‘the set of knives that never get dull’, at the State Fair! I have paid for such. I now avoid such! Perhaps I remain the stupid!

      11

  • #
    DonS

    Hi Jo

    Interesting news this morning about how a Chinese energy company is going to pay 3.2 billion dollars for Rio Tinto’s New South Wales thermal coal mines. And I was told by the ABC and it’s one sided panel of giggle-science experts that China was getting out of coal and building massive renewable energy thingies.

    Perhaps this Chinese company is planning to close these mines to save us from the carbon dioxide monster? The last great Communist dictatorship, the idol of our caring green-leftists, wouldn’t be planning to burn that dirty stuff would it? There is probably about as much chance of the Chinese shutting down their coal powered energy industry as there is of the ABC giving a balanced coverage of the climate debate.

    Giggle, giggle, giggle.

    61

    • #
      TdeF

      Yes, only NIMBY South Australians want to export CO2 to China. No manufacturing, no coal power, no private jobs, a worker’s paradise with no pollution. You really would think they are on a different planet.

      As Trump says, it is all a Chinese plot, like Globalization. All the money, technology and jobs enter, none leaves. Protectionism is the backbone of the Chinese economy along with total control of cash flow but the Greens would have you believe it is all misunderstanding. No, it is obvious enough. Farms, coal mines, housing, Kidman. Soon Australians will be paying rent in their own country of their own country. For all the angst about the US election, it is a democracy and the people have spoken, not the celebrities and the press. China is not a benign democracy but nothing is said. Nothing is allowed to be said.

      42

      • #

        TdeF January 25, 2017 at 4:30 pm

        “As Trump says, it is all a Chinese plot, like Globalization. All the money, technology and jobs enter, none leaves. Protectionism is the backbone of the Chinese economy along with total control of cash flow but the Greens would have you believe it is all misunderstanding. No, it is obvious enough. Farms, coal mines, housing, Kidman. Soon Australians will be paying rent in their own country of their own country. For all the angst about the US election, it is a democracy and the people have spoken, not the celebrities and the press. China is not a benign democracy but nothing is said. Nothing is allowed to be said.”

        Try to understand like some armored knight that got jousted from his horse. Intense human rage, I must go kill dat son of a bitch!
        All the best! -will-

        00

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    Dennis

    All the very best on Australia Day 2017 and may it be the start of a new way forward.

    42

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  • #
    pat

    unbelievable:

    25 Jan: DailyTelegraph: Jason Tin: Reverend Fred Nile classed as a ‘security threat’, denied visa to Donald Trump inauguration
    CHRISTIAN Democrats founder Fred Nile says he has “no idea” why he was blocked from entering the US for Donald Trump’s inauguration.
    But the MLC is questioning whether he was denied a visa because Obama administration staffers were unimpressed with his support for President Trump.
    Rev Nile said he was to stay at Mr Trump’s hotel in Washington, after Australia’s Ambassador to the US, former treasurer Joe Hockey, helped organise the inauguration tickets.
    But upon reaching the American Airlines desk, tickets in hand, he and his wife were told they would not be allowed entry to the US…
    Rev Nile said he has “intensively” grilled the US Consul-General about why he was not permitted entry.
    “The Consul-General just said ‘your visa application’s been denied’ and we were given no reason,” he said.
    “It’s something to do with the security.”

    The veteran politician says he “can’t prove anything” but is wondering whether his support for Mr Trump played a role.
    “Until Trump appoints people, they’re all Democrats, they’re all Obama’s,” he said.
    http://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/news/nsw/reverend-fred-nile-classed-as-a-security-threat-denied-visa-to-donald-trump-inauguration/news-story/6de58d976a51c832dc59ab12ce8c7b17

    21

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    pat

    24 Jan: DailyCaller: Chris White: Major Clinton Donor Suffers Crushing Blow After Keystone XL Approval
    The Democratic mega donor instrumental in pressuring the Obama administration into rejecting the Keystone XL pipeline suffered a devastating blow Wednesday when President Donald Trump approved the project.
    Tom Steyer, a California billionaire and one of former Secretary of State Hillary Clinton’s biggest donors, was a crucial cog in the campaign to reject the Keystone XL pipeline, and spent millions trying to influence congressional Democrats to oppose it. All his work opposing the line went down the drain after Trump signed an executive order Wednesday approving the project.
    Steyer blasted Trump on Twitter (LINK, INCLUDING STEYER STATEMENT)…

    Steyer’s unsuccessful campaign to permanently dismantle Keystone comes amid other sizable failures — most specifically his inability to fork over enough money to push Clinton into the White House.
    He spent more than $75 million on this year’s election, with most of his efforts going toward registering millennials to vote. None of it mattered, because Trump bulldozed his way through the financial clutter on his march to the White House…
    http://dailycaller.com/2017/01/24/major-clinton-donor-suffers-crushing-blow-after-keystone-xl-approval/

    some of the replies to Steyer’s tweet:

    REPLIES:
    Ryan Maue: You mean Warren Buffet’s trains or “crude oil bombs” won’t be cruising thru rural America at 55 mph anymore?…
    MyPresident: Nope, you are just worried about yourself, Soros and Buffet. Soros & Buffett profited from obama’s veto! …
    William B. Turner: Are Trump voters happy with this?
    Brandon Rambo: I am. Yes. It creates jobs…
    William B. Turner: Thanks for proving you have no clue. Not that I found your response at all convincing anyway. Low informaton voter…
    Brandon Rambo: no problem. I don’t believe in the global warming hype that u guys do, I just want good-paying jobs. Take care…

    31

    • #

      I truly oppose the Keystone XL across the US Ogalla aquifer! Go around that, at little increase in cost. The Ogalla provides 60% of moisture to crop production in the USA Any leak from Alberta tar sands would poison the Ogalla for 100,000 years. At least half of the US would become desert. That pipeline 35 foot up in the air, with triple catchments for any leak would be acceptable. Underground, no one can determine how much toxic crap is leaking. From the Alaska oil pipeline, we now have measurement of gross leak from most rigorous pipeline construction.
      All the best! -will-

      00

  • #
    pat

    24 Jan: AP: Juliet Williams: California governor defiant in face of Trump agenda
    (AP writer Sophia Bollag also contributed to this report)
    Gov. Jerry Brown forcefully defended California’s efforts to curb global warming ETC…
    “California is not turning back. Not now, not ever,” he declared.
    The Democratic governor of the nation’s most populous state has helped put California in the vanguard of the effort to fight climate change. He also noted, among other things, the state’s successes in cutting unemployment, reducing a multibillion-dollar deficit and boosting school funding…

    “We have seen the bold assertion of ‘alternative facts.’ We have heard the blatant attacks on science,” Brown told a joint session of the Democratic-controlled Legislature…
    With backing from the Obama administration, the state of 39 million people has adopted the most aggressive program in the U.S. to fight climate change, a campaign to roll back carbon emissions 40 percent below 1990 levels by 2030.
    The measures include escalating fees charged to polluters for emissions under the state’s cap-and-trade system, incentives for electric cars, and regulation of greenhouse gas releases from dairy cows and landfills…
    He received a standing ovation from lawmakers…

    Brown is projecting a $1.6 billion budget deficit and proposing $3 billion in spending cuts, largely to social programs that his fellow Democrats support. In his address, he did not propose any new policies…
    He did find himself in agreement with the Trump administration on the need for infrastructure improvements, saying California has “roads and tunnels and railroads and even a dam that the president could help us with.”…
    http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/U/US_CALIFORNIA_STATE_OF_STATE?SITE=MYPSP&SECTION=HOME&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT&CTIME=2017-01-24-16-43-18

    19 Jan: Hotair: Ed Morrissey: CA to Legislature: Hey we deeply regret that $1.9 billion miss on entitlement spending
    Hey, $1.9 billion here, $1.9 billion there … pretty soon you’re talking about entirely imaginary numbers (LINK). That’s the message that Governor Jerry Brown’s administration sent to the California legislature when they admitted that they had miscalculated their expenditures in the state’s Medicaid program, known as Medi-Cal. The admission came during the new round of budget negotiations, even though the mistake had been known for months…

    Not only did California spend more than it projected on Medi-Cal, it also took in quite a bit less than it projected in tax revenues. According to the revenue estimates (LINK) in Brown’s proposed budget will miss by almost six billion dollars over three budget cycles…
    Get ready for a lot more unpleasant budget surprises, Californians — and a continuing exodus of capital and talent.
    http://hotair.com/archives/2017/01/19/ca-to-legislature-hey-we-deeply-regret-that-1-9-billion-miss-on-entitlement-spending/

    00

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    pat

    RT is a hotbed of trendy young CAGW zealots sadly. they’ve picked this up from FakeNewsMSM, without any balance:

    24 Jan: RT: Trump bars EPA & USDA from talking to media or awarding grants
    President Donald Trump appears to be waging a war on science and the environment. His latest moves include banning at least three Cabinet-level agencies from talking to the media, publishing scientific research or issuing grants.
    Between Monday morning and Tuesday afternoon, the Trump administration had instituted gag orders and freezes on the Environmental Protection Agency (EPA), the US Department of Agriculture (USDA) and the Department of Health and Human Services (HHS)…

    Despite the new guidance and the new policies for EPA, USDA and HHS, the Twitter feed for Badlands National Park, which is overseen by the Department of the Interior, sent out three tweets on Tuesday promoting climate science…
    At the EPA, staff were instructed to freeze all its grants and contracts, as well as to stop communicating with the media and on social media, ProPublica and the Huffington Post reported Monday night…

    The move could threaten the EPA’s budget allocations ‒ possibly including its approximately 600 current federal contracts worth about $6.4 billion ‒ and could potentially disrupt its ability to perform toxic cleanups, water testing and other core operations.
    “Basically no money moving anywhere until they can take a look,” an agency staffer told Reuters…

    The EPA will also cease external communications, including press releases, social media and blogs, according to a memo obtained by the Huffington Post. The incoming administration will also “review the list of upcoming webinars and decide which ones will go forward,” as well as any external speaking engagements through February. “No new content can be placed on any website. Only do clean up where essential,” the memo said.
    “They’re trying to freeze things to make sure nothing happens they don’t want to have happen, so any regulations going forward, contracts, grants, hires, they want to make sure to look at them first,” Myron Ebell, who ran the EPA transition for the incoming administration, told ProPublica. “This may be a little wider than some previous administrations, but it’s very similar to what others have done.”
    However, an EPA employee anonymously passed along the information about the freezes to a congressional office, fearing retaliation, a Capitol Hill staffer told the Huffington Post…
    https://www.rt.com/usa/374971-trump-agencies-science-media-ban/

    NY Post: AP: Bob Fredericks: Trump orders EPA media blackout
    President Trump on Tuesday imposed a media blackout at the Environmental Protection Agency and barred staff from awarding new contracts or grants.
    Emails sent to EPA staff since his inauguration on Friday and reviewed by the Associated Press detailed the specific prohibitions banning press releases, blog updates or posts to the agency’s social media accounts…
    COMMENTS AT FREEREPUBLIC:
    Here’s the best line in that whole danged story, the final line:
    “The EPA did not immediately respond to phone calls and emails requesting comment.”
    Well, duh!…

    He did not order a “EPA Blackout” – he just told them they were not authorized to release any information until he tells them what the new administrations plans are
    This is NOT some dark conspiracy, and they fact that one of them ‘leaked’ it already makes it clear why he needed to do this…

    You know all the enviro-nuts in the EPA will be singing like canaries to a WaPo / NYT reporter by tomorrow…

    It doesn’t need to be dismantled entirely…. but it does need to be brought down from an angry 16,000 pound fire-breathing dragon defending every possible DNA strand on earth into a proper cooperative body that helps balance the environment with the needs of farmers and industry…

    This story came out of a Buzz Feed story so I am sure it is highly fluffed…

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      pat January 25, 2017 at 5:57 pm ·

      “RT is a hotbed of trendy young CAGW zealots sadly. they’ve picked this up from FakeNewsMSM, without any balance:”

      I am truly impressed by how quickly the new US government shut down the BS from the EPA.
      Can I help?

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    Geoffrey Williams

    Whenever I think of our ‘glorious leader’ I am reminded of two words; viz ‘turn’ and ‘bull”. So easy to remember & so apt . .
    GeoffW

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