JoNova

A science presenter, writer, speaker & former TV host; author of The Skeptic's Handbook (over 200,000 copies distributed & available in 15 languages).


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Antarctic sea ice strangely the same as 100 years ago when Ford Model T was around

A hundred years of cars, planes, wars, and five billion more polluting people, and there’s nothing to show for it. Old log books kept by Scott and Shackleton show that Antarctic sea ice hasn’t changed much since 1912. Right now, at least three ecowarriors are rejoicing that perhaps there is a future for penguins after all.

Scott, Antarctic, Journal. page 11.

Click to enlarge

Scott and Shackleton logbooks prove Antarctic sea ice is not shrinking 100 years after expeditions

“The missions of Scott and Shackleton are remembered in history as heroic failures, yet the data collected by these and other explorers could profoundly change the way we view the ebb and flow of Antarctic sea ice,” said Dr Jonathan Day, who led the study, which was published in the journal The Cryosphere.

“We know that sea ice in the Antarctic has increased slightly over the past 30 years, since satellite observations began. Scientists have been grappling to understand this trend in the context of global warming, but these new findings suggest it may not be anything new.

“If ice levels were as low a century ago as estimated in this research, then a similar increase may have occurred between then and the middle of the century, when previous studies suggest ice levels were far higher.”

Read it all at the Telegraph.    Daily Mail has even more.

The BBC quietly headlines that ‘Heroic’ Antarctic explorers left sea-ice clues“.Would they have said something so vague and un-sensationalist if the old logs had showed sea ice was declining? Hard to imagine that just being a “clue”. A couple of weeks ago the BBC were telling us that ice cores from Antarctica would help tell us about conditions on the whole planet. But this news about sea ice apparently has no global relevance, it’s is just a local issue and anyway the Arctic ice loss has been really bad. 

“The study suggests that Antarctic sea-ice is much less sensitive to climate change than the Arctic, which has declined dramatically”

When the Antarctic Peninsula melts, it’s “unprecedented” and “in response to climate change”. When Antarctic sea ice stays,  climate change is melting the Arctic.

On wikimedia there are a lot of pages from Scott’s journal.

Image File:To the South Pole. Captain Scott’s own story told from his journals (Page 11)

h/t Colin, Marvin, Richard, Dennis, GWPF, Climate Depot.

REFERENCE

The research has been published in The Cryosphere journal.

 

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116 comments to Antarctic sea ice strangely the same as 100 years ago when Ford Model T was around

  • #
    Leo Morgan

    The thing that alarms me is that this ice has shrunken so dramatically since the “Ship of Fools” expedition so recently.
    They went to show how far the ice had retreated since Shackleton’s day, and were trapped by ice further out than it had been in Shackleton’s time.

    322

  • #
    Rereke Whakaaro

    … sea ice apparently has no global relevance, it’s is just a local issue.

    Yes, well, the vaporous luvvies at the BBC don’t understand seasonality, over and above their programming schedule.

    I have personally been told that, “it is always winter at the poles – it is just the intensity that changes”.

    They, the BBC, see the two poles as being mirror images of each other, because that is what the satellite imagery implies. But they totally ignore the fact that there is a huge continent under the ice in Antarctica, which provides for some thermal stability, and only a few islands in the Arctic, which are just a nuisance.

    363

    • #
      Gee Aye

      Right… the BBC is an organisation right? So how does a thing understand? It has a great many shows including ones that specifically discuss continental Antarctica thus refuting your comment. And really, they ( who? All of them? What them?) see the poles as mirror images because of satellite something something something else made up on the spot?

      I hope you are ok.

      216

      • #
        Rereke Whakaaro

        the BBC is an organisation right? So how does a thing understand?

        Where to start?

        Organisational culture, for one thing. Most policemen see felons in the same way, and most will help old ladies cross the road, if asked. They understand what is expected of them, in the role they take, in society.

        This culture, regarding how the job is performed, comes from the top, and pervades the whole organisation. The organisation as a whole understands its ethos.

        That also applies to commercial organisations. Lockheed Martin, IBM, Volvo, each have a unique culture which underwrites the actions and attitudes of the employees. Their employees understand what is expected of them, in achieving the annual company goals.

        Because of the organisational culture, employees learn, and know, how they are expected to act, on behalf of the company.

        The BBC is a company, that is no different, in principle, to Lockheed Martin, IBM Volvo, etc. The BBC employees and contractors know how they are expected to act when they are representing the BBC through their programming (in both meanings of the word). So my reference to the BBC was used as a collective noun for the corporate culture of all of its employees and contractors.

        I thought that would be obvious, because my first sentence referred to the vaporous luvvies at the BBC, meaning the people involved in producing what they produce.

        FWIIW, one of my cousins is (or was) a senior producer at the BBC. They produce entertainment, and do not profess to be an authority on anything, other than producing entertainment. That is the level of credence you should place on the BBC, as the primary mouthpiece of Her Majesty’s British Government. They take the official information supplied, and turn it into entertainment.

        161

      • #
        Rereke Whakaaro

        I hope you are ok.

        I am fine – just busy, is all.

        60

  • #
    tom0mason

    The truly amazing thing about Antarctica is that it is vast, roughly the size of the United States and Mexico combined, or nearly two Australias (about 14.2 million sq km, or about 5.5 million sq miles), stable, and virtually untouched landmass. Organisms native to Antarctica include many types of algae, bacteria, fungi, plants, protista, and certain animals:- mites, nematodes, water bears or moss piglets (tardigrades) as well as the well known penguins and seals. Because of the stability of this landmass the effect of the climate changing over the centuries tend to stay there.

    This is in complete contrast to that floating ice mass at the Arctic that melts and refreezes depending on the sea temperature, and moves about depending on prevailing winds and sea currents.
    When Scott and Shackleton set out for the South pole, the Arctic was starting its regular period of melting, indeed by 1922 catastrophic reports were being issued by scientist that the melting Arctic threatened to cause sea-level rise and flood seaside cities. Umm, I heard that baloney before…

    Thus as a resource for investigating indications of global changes in climate Antarctica (and not the Arctic) is the ideal candidate.

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  • #

    “Scientists have been grappling to understand this trend in the context of global warming”

    And the reason they will not be able to explain it is because the context is not representative of reality.

    303

  • #
    jorgekafkazar

    The BBC quietly headlines that ‘Heroic’ Antarctic explorers left sea-ice clues“.Would they have said something so vague and un-sensationalist if the old logs had showed sea ice was declining? Hard to imagine that just being a “clue”.

    The headlines are a clue to the Lysenkoist nature of the useless BBC paid propaganda spewers.

    263

    • #
      Rereke Whakaaro

      I take it, that you are not overly impressed with the BBC? Me neither.

      The Weird Service is still pretty good, I understand. But now I live in a civilised country (albeit one that moves around periodically) I no longer have cause to listen to it.

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      • #
        Manfred

        The Weird Service is still pretty good…But now I live in a civilised country I no longer have cause to listen to it.

        Damning with faint praise. I thought it had gone out of fashion. Nice.

        80

      • #
        tom0mason

        Rereke Whakaaro,

        "The Weird Service is still pretty good, I understand."

        I’d like to disabuse you of that notion, unless you enjoy PC language, mixed with the usual LGBTwhatever scare/feel-sorry-for-me fluff pieces, UN and GreenPeas authority adoration, and free adverts for anything Elon Musk does or says.
        Add to that a large regular globs of AGW propaganda, and the fact they still can not comprehend BRIXIT or Trump becoming US President, then yes you might find it pretty good.
        Frankly, most-times it’s damnable.
        On rare occasions they’ll play some interesting music though.

        201

        • #
          Glen Michel

          Dear chaps,things were a lot simpler years ago when the beeb was run by pedophiles ex Oxbridge. Anyways it’s all Ancient Greek to me.

          30

        • #
          tom0mason

          Currently the BBc Weird Service is mourning the death of Fidel Castro, thankfully that had finally stopped them telling me that the Arctic is melting at an ‘unprecedented rate’ 3 times an hour.
          However the Trump the misogynist, homophobe, tyrant to be, continues…

          62

        • #
          Annie

          I listen to Radio 3 online, except when there are tuneless sundry bangs, thumps and off-key scraping. Then I try Radio 4, only to be put off by what you describe above tom0mason. Then an occasional foray into The World Service or Radio 4 Extra, only to give up in disgust. I then end up with Classic FM from UK, and become totally fed-up with the inane ads. Silence is definitely better!

          40

      • #
        ian hilliar

        For all the problems with the BBC, it is whole lot better than Australia’s ABC, which continues to spiral into green nonscience.

        11

    • #
  • #

    Actually, we’re all “much less sensitive to climate change”. The fretful classes need to find something new. What about Russian hackers under our beds?

    171

  • #
    alwaysBskeptical

    Thank you for this site Jo. It keeps me sane in this world of AGW.
    Have you heard about the women scientists travelling to Antarctica next week?
    The expedition seems to be less about science and more about promoting AGW propaganda.
    https://homewardboundprojects.com.au/

    [Note: The link is to a site that requires you to subscribe to be able to read anything.] AZ

    71

  • #
    Ruairi

    The warmists, who suffered great dread,
    And fear, that Antarctica’s spread,
    Of its massive ice-field,
    Would to man’s warming yield,
    Are informed,it was ‘all in your head’.

    261

  • #
    TdeF

    According to the infallible Wikipedia,

    Average Arctic January temperatures range from about −34 °C to 0 °C and winter temperatures can drop below −50 °C over large parts of the Arctic.
    Average Arctic July temperatures range from about −10 to +10 °C with some land areas occasionally exceeding 30 °C in summer.

    Which means a summer average of 0C, the melting point of ice. Of course the extent of floating/sea ice is highly variable! You can conclude nothing from this outside natural variation. The melting of floating ice does not raise sea levels. Nor does the annual melting of the larger amount of ice and snow on the land from Canada to Siberia. What exactly is the problem?

    In the much colder Antarctica it has reached -93C. Even on the warmer coast the highest temperature ever was 17.5C and it is typically below 0C even in summer. Overall it is 25C colder than the Arctic, so ice cover is insensitive to temperature rises of a few degrees and the world will not drown. In fact there is an ocean above the Antarctic continent, 4km thick and twice the area of Australia. South of the Tropic of Capricorn is effectively all water and as a consequence only 2% of the world’s population live in this third of the planet. It is much colder.

    So Ice extent at the North Pole is highly variable, a well established fact, not a sign of Global Warming. For the very few people who have ever been inside the arctic circles in the last hundred years, this might be interesting. As an indicator of the temperature of the planet, it is no more significant than the cycles of drought in Australia, currently soaking in flooding rains. Sea ice extent in the arctic is sensationalism, not science. More Climate Scientology.

    222

    • #
      TdeF

      The red hander has just red handed every comment. Mind like a steel trap. Closed with great force.

      283

      • #
        AndyG55

        I get lots of thumbs..

        If I want to tally them, I use: Green thumb = +1, Red Thumb = +2

        Those red thumbs tell me I am successfully doing my job. :-)

        324

  • #
    turnedoutnice

    Well, the answer to this conundrum is obvious. Captain Robert Scott and Sir Ernest Shackleton were barefaced liars.

    On the other hand, if they were not liars, what does that imply for those who control present Climate Alchemy?

    Just arsking…………………..

    233

  • #
    Rick Will

    A feature of Antartica is that it receives a higher level of solar radiation in January than anywhere else on the planet despite still shallow angle of incidence:
    “Figure 7g-2: Average available solar insolation at the Earth’s surface: January 1984-1991. Highest values of available solar insolation occur at the South Pole due to high solar input and little cloud cover. High values also occur along the subtropical oceans of the Southern Hemisphere. Color range: blue – red – white, Values: 0 – 350 W/m2. Global mean = 187 W/m2, Minimum = 0 W/m2, Maximum = 426 W/m2. (Source: NASA Surface Radiation Budget Project).”

    Figure 7g-2 can be found here:
    http://vudeevudeewiki.blogspot.com.au/2011/12/global-patterns-of-insolation-receipts.html

    It is also one area of the planet that can actually show a CO2 radiation signature on the surface as the air, warmed by warm water to the north, can be hotter than the land (ice) surface. The water vapour is mostly frozen out but the CO2 is still present to radiate downward. A persistent temperature inversion:
    http://www.atmos.washington.edu/~hudson/CMDL_Meeting/Hudson_Inversion.pdf

    40

    • #
      tom0mason

      Here is a more holistic view of the polar climates and how they work from Erl Happ.

      31

    • #
      Manfred

      The lowest planetary temperature [evah] recorded of -93.2C in August 2010 at the Antarctic Dome .
      And for those interested, Results: Lab experiment regarding CO2 “snow” in Antarctica at -113°F (-80.5°C) – not possible (WUWT 2009)

      50

      • #
        theRealUniverse

        Yep, CO2 freezes (dry ice) at about -79C. Global temperature differences at ANY ONE TIME on the planet would be about 100-120C! (-80-90C in Vostok, +55C somewhere in Sahara desert) (max winter to summer extreems). You cant average global temperatures its meaningless. Thermodynamics of the planet is a complex process of heat transfer. Impossible to be the work of a minute trace gas.

        51

        • #
          Rick Will

          In my view the average temperature of ocean water to a depth of 700m between 30S and 30N would be a reasonable means of establishing temperature trends. This is the region where most of the planets energy is absorbed and retransmitted. It is a region of stability due to high thermal mass compared with land and floating ice. This is the engine room for the global heat pump.

          00

    • #
      KinkyKeith

      Hi Rick,
      I was thinking that it might be interesting to have Will comment on the Septic one last line: but the CO2 ,,,,,,
      Unfortunately I didn’t read all of the link but there did seem to be a huge number of variables mentioned.

      KK

      21

  • #
    Mark M

    Considering these early explorers are part of that inept mob who couldn’t take temperatures correctly before 1910, expect the BoM to homogenise these inconvenient facts.

    “Temperature data prior to 1910 should be used with extreme caution as many stations, prior to that date, were exposed in non-standard shelters, some of which give readings which are several degrees warmer or cooler than those measured according to post-1910 standards.”

    http://www.bom.gov.au/climate/cdo/about/about-airtemp-data.shtml

    81

    • #
      James Murphy

      2 geologists of great renown (in my mind, if nowhere else), Douglas Mawson and Edgeworth David, were with Shackleton’s ‘Nimrod’ expedition between 1907 and 1909. If the BOM is to be believed, it looks like they just missed out on being able to provide reliable measurements…

      Perhaps that’s why Mawson really went back in 1911 – to make amends for his previous metrological misdemeanours??

      91

  • #
    Manfred

    The overarching purpose the the climate meme was always and only to provide the axle for UN driven eco-globalisation. If we are to finally dispose of this totalitarian nonsense, it is not science and history that will help but severe politics, and immediate de-funding. Screw down the money spigot and the eco-totalitarians evaporate.

    With creeping implementation by indoctrination, propaganda and ‘education’ the relevance of the AGW meme declines to the point where it no longer matters what was asserted. This is what we are seeing and reading today. And as the relevance has declined so has the wider public interest, yet the stealthy implementation continues.

    We have the UNEP imposing its will through European diktat (pension fund ‘sustainability’), and we have the edifice of global administration in waiting, the UN Department of Economic and Social Affairs (ECOSOC) whose tentacles embrace some 4,189 NGO’s that have accredited UN ‘consultative’ status.

    We seen the UN notably busy this year and into the next, a very busy schedule going forward at climate conference, anti-tobacco conference (restricted and secret), Urban Agenda (Habitat 3), and the first UN transport conference,

    United Nations Secretary-General Ban Ki-moon will convene the first-ever Global Sustainable Transport Conference from 26-27 November 2016 in [the highly visible global epicentre] of Ashgabat, Turkmenistan.

    The Conference will be held at the highest level and will bring together key stakeholders from Governments, the private sector, and civil society to engage in dialogue that emphasizes the integrated and cross-cutting nature of sustainable transport. All modes of transport – road, rail, aviation and maritime – will be addressed as well as transport both in urban and rural areas, energy and transport, public transport, countries in special situations, road safety, and financing for sustainable transport, as well as finding a new paradigm for transport sustainability.

    No prizes for guessing what a ‘new paradigm’ could look like.
    Imagine: A World Where Nobody Owns Their Own Car
    and
    Why we don’t need self-driving cars, but need to get rid of cars
    and
    Al Gore, Mexican President Calderon Want To Spend $90 Trillion To Get Rid Of Cars In Cities

    60

    • #
      tom0mason

      "The overarching purpose the the climate meme was always and only to provide the axle for UN driven eco-globalisation."

      And to re-enforce the merits of the conditioned thinking allowing unhesitating hive mind supplication, consensus thinking, and belief in the unquestionable infallibility of the UN elites soothsaying.

      30

  • #
    Another Ian

    “B Deplorable | November 25, 2016 4:11 PM | Reply

    Well, if dead men can vote, why not dead men denying climate change? Scott and Shackleton, men before their time…..”

    A comment on this subject at

    http://www.smalldeadanimals.com/2016/11/y2kyoto-ill-mis-81.html#comments

    51

  • #
    Bob Peel

    Is there a way to view all in one place all of the limericks posted her by Ruairi?
    If not, why not? The bloke’s a machine!

    40

    • #
      Bob Peel

      There I go assuming Ruariri is a he. Sorry if it’s Ms Ruariri.

      50

      • #
        Raven

        Please get with the program, Bob.
        In the age of gender fluidity, Ruariri might not be a Ms either . . . . . . . . . . . . today.

        51

    • #
      Rereke Whakaaro

      As far as I am aware, all of Jo’s blog articles are available on her website, filed by year. Try searching for “Ruairi”, who is, I think, a blokess.

      40

      • #
        Yonniestone

        Maybe from Rory, (Irish: Ruairí; Scottish Gaelic: Ruairidh[1] ) is a Goidelic personal name in anglicised form, common to the Irish, Highland Scots and their diasporas.[2] The meaning of the name is “red king,” from ruadh (ie – red-coloured hair or complexion, foxes, etc.) and rígh (ie – king).

        60

        • #
          Rereke Whakaaro

          Ooo, I never knew any of that. Thank you.

          I retract my comment at 15.2 – probably not a blokess, at all. My apologies for making an assumption, and getting it wrong.

          20

    • #
      AndyG55

      Unfortunately, I haven’t been able to find any way of searching by “poster”

      I’m sure Jo can do it, but dragging out all Ruariri wonderful poems would be a major task.

      Maybe he/she has kept them, and can provide an archive?

      01

  • #
  • #
    el gordo

    Had a minor brain fade and mentioned this on the previous thread.

    ‘During a period of bad Arctic pack ice conditions, in the Antarctic both Cook in 1773 and Biscoe in 1831 were able to sail 1-2 degrees further south than would be possible today.’

    David Sugden, Arctic and Antarctic 1982.
    ————-

    71

    • #
      Len

      One degree of latitude is 60 nautical miles therefore 120 nautical miles further south.
      60 nautical miles = 111 kilometres so 222 Kms further south.
      [One nautical mile per hour = One knot.]

      30

      • #
      • #
        • #
          Raven

          You mean global warming isn’t global?
          I know . . . when CO2 is accounted for, it’s masked in the southern hemisphere but unprecedented in the northern hemisphere.
          Got it.

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          • #
            el gordo

            …and West Antarctica is losing mass balance because of undersea volcanoes.

            Who knew?

            31

          • #
            sophocles

            No Raven, it’s not global. It’s a Northern Hemisphere phenomenon. The Southern Hemisphere hasn’t warmed much at all. It’s stayed about 2 – 2.5 degrees C lower in temperture than the Northern Hemisphere. All the extra CO2 which crosses the equator probably re-dissolves in the oceans before it can do any warming.

            NZ’s average annual temperature has remained pretty stable at 12.6 degrees Celsius for the last 150 years.

            el Gordo said

            West Antarctica is losing mass balance because of undersea volcanoes.

            Umm, not just submarine volcanism, don’t forget the subglacial volcanism.

            41

            • #
              tom0mason

              sophocles,
              "All the extra CO2 which crosses the equator probably re-dissolves in the oceans before it can do any warming."

              But the Mauna Loa CO2 measurements show that global CO2 levels have risen.
              The Mauna Loa measurements are verified across a large network of other stations around the globe to ensure this global measurement is correct?

              If not surely we should use the same technique with temperature — have one reference global thermometer, and extrapolate all other local temperatures from it.

              32

              • #
                Rereke Whakaaro

                Oh, good grief!

                There has to be something hallucinogenic in whatever they are drinking.

                Let me get this straight. They have one site, which is supposed to act as a surrogate for the rest of the planet, when it comes to CO2 levels.

                On a volcano, would not have been my first choice, but it is, as it is. The purpose is to detect and recognise variations to CO2 over time (my emphasis).

                Knowing the absolute value is not relevant. Knowing the delta – the direction and rate of change – is totally relevant.

                Then somebody asks, “What if the single site is wrong? How would we know? So they establish a whole lot of additional sites to make sure that the primary site is still right.

                Well, there is a saying: “A person with a watch, knows the time. A person with two watches is never sure.”

                These kiddies will try to homogenise the readings from a whole range of sites, in different environments, at different times of day, and different periods of the year, and come up with a number that is meaningless.

                In the meantime, the original purpose of Nauna Loa CO2 measurement, which was to detect and quantify variations in the level of atmospheric CO2, will be swamped by the noise.

                31

              • #
                Raven

                I still think we should be studying the correlation between global temperature and the US postal rate.
                The correlation is uncanny, holds precisely across the whole of the USA and doesn’t suffer the noise problem . . . it’s very robust . . .

                10

  • #
    Dennis

    Highlighting how we are misled by politicians, political theatre created by them to divert attention from serious matters, this morning I inspected the Murray & Darling rivers at Mildura and Wentworth. They are now flooded and the water is running fast. Flooding not as bad as it was a week or two ago but parkland furniture is under water now and barricades are in place to keep people from getting too close.

    Over the past week there has been repeated news items about a cabinet minister from South Australia arguing with colleagues from other states and federal about South Australia demanding water allocation and claiming that their share was being held back for irrigation in other states.

    Just another political stunt.

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    • #
      Dennis

      Check out the Murray River flooding

      https://www.visitmildura.com.au

      31

      • #
        Graeme No.3

        This has been forgotten by the SA Minister for Water (whose name rhyms with Hunt) so conveniently timed to make the gullible forget the completely incompetent behaviour of the SA Government regarding the new Adelaide Hospital, the SA electricity crisis, the Gilman sell off (subject to secrecy), the destruction of the East Parklands to build a tunnel for faster passage of Obahn busses from marginal electorates to the CBD in the few months of their remaining life, the closure of hospitals, the massive loss of water due to collapsing water distribution system etc.
        Nor the “deserved award” of Senior Councillor status ( formerly QC) to the Attorney General (largely by himself) with the approaching Use by Date for the Government leading to the comment about “The Rau deserting the sinking ship”.

        30

    • #
      el gordo

      The crow eaters have lost the plot, in northern NSW they are doing it tough. Barnaby for PM.

      ‘As a result of that review, the MDBA has also announced it’s recommending a reduction in water recovery targets in the north of the basin from 390 gigalitres to 320 gigalitres – a 70 gigalitre decrease.

      “Although it’s not my decision, I strongly support it, because I do think you’ve got a moral responsibility for those who are doing it tough to not make their life tougher,” Deputy Prime Minster Barnaby Joyce told AM.’

      50

      • #
        Dennis

        Well it would be rather silly to penalise farmers who rely on irrigation to supply the river with more water flow when good rainfall has provided flood conditions along the river/rivers including in SA where the political theatre over water allocation is centred.

        00

  • #
    Dennis

    Was the word stunt the reason for moderation required?

    30

  • #
    Michael

    Not according to their ABC News last night, who stated with absolute certainty that Antarctica is warming much faster than the rest of the planet and is the canary in the coal mine for global disaster.

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    • #
      RAH

      That canary sure gets around and takes many forms and never dies. Polar Bears, the Great Lakes in the US, the warm blob off Alaska are just a few of it’s many mutations over time and space. It never stays in one place being the same thing very long though. It will move on to another place to become something else when the sea ice returns and some other worthless hack will proclaim it is something else somewhere else.

      51

  • #
    PeterPetrum

    Hi Jo, your Daily Mail link above goes to your old carbon trading post?

    30

  • #

    It’s so cute how they’ve known for over a decade (British Antarctic Survey) of active volcanism and and an ancient subglacial ash sheet the size of Wales, right at Pine Island Glacier. They just manage to exclude it from the conversation. A bit like when someone belches in a lift. Moving right along…

    West Antarctica looks like a cordillera, walks like a cordillera, quacks like a cordillera…you’d almost be inclined to think…Nah, it’s the coal and the SUVs for sure.

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    • #
      ianl8888

      I think this was mentioned maybe 12 months ago, but there is a “swimming” pool (volcanically heated small ocean bay) which tourists game enough to actually go dipping, surrounded by glacial ice, penguins and the ghosts of Xmas Past (I made that last bit up).

      My wife was one of those game enough, I passed. Although this is well enough known to the tourism packagers, the MSM pretends it’s just non-existent.

      72

    • #
      john karajas

      Think of West Antarctica as an extension of the Andes.

      71

  • #
    theRealUniverse

    I would think it may be the difference that Arctic is a floating ice cap surrounded by continents whereas the Antarctic is a frozen continent surrounded by sea! Also the Circum-Antarctic current has no northern hemisphere equivalent. It drives the circulation of weather in the southern oceans.

    40

  • #
    pat

    at least BBC, Tele, Mail, Express are carrying the story. cannot find any MSM in the US interested in it.

    however, CNN carried this, updated 20 Nov:

    20 Nov: CNN: Brandon Miller: Amid higher global temperatures, sea ice at record lows at poles
    VIDEO: Undeniable climate change facts 02:24 (Antarctic sea ice at lowest it has ever been for this time of year etc & that’s why 97% of SCIENTISTS say CLIMATE CHANGE is real etc)…
    “It looks like, since the beginning of October, that for the first time we are seeing both the Arctic and Antarctic sea ice running at record low levels,” said Walt Meier, a research scientist with the Cryospheric Sciences Laboratory at NASA’s Goddard Space Flight Center, who has tracked sea ice data going back to 1979…
    Skeptics have long pointed to ice gain in the Southern Hemisphere as evidence climate change wasn’t occurring, but scientists warned that it was caused by natural variations and circulations in the atmosphere.
    While it is too early to know if the recent, rapid decline in Antarctic sea ice is going to be a regular occurrence like in the Arctic, it “certainly puts the kibosh on everyone saying that Antarctica’s ice is just going up and up,” Meier said…
    http://edition.cnn.com/2016/11/18/world/sea-ice-arctic-antarctic-lows/

    99.9% for Fake News Amanpour!

    25 Nov: Newsbusters: CNN Host Christiane Amanpour Whines of ‘Exceptionally High Bar’ Media Set for Hillary
    In a second look at the transcript, one can see how Amanpour complained that Hillary Clinton was judged by an “exceptionally high bar” and Trump an “exceptionally low bar.”

    ***She also insisted, as many at CNN do, that the fact-based journalist never accepts a rebuttal on the “empirical scientific evidence” of global warming…
    We cannot continue the old paradigm–let’s say like over global warming, where 99.9 percent of the empirical scientific evidence is given equal play with the tiny minority of deniers…

    “I believe in being truthful, not neutral. And I believe we must stop banalizing the truth.”
    “Truthful, not neutral” is an Amanpour slogan. It’s a wonderful motto for arrogant liberal bias. Liberalism is the “truth,” conservatism is “falsehood,” and so one should be celebrated, and the other pounded into dust…READ ALL
    http://www.newsbusters.org/blogs/nb/tim-graham/2016/11/25/cnn-host-christiane-amanpour-whines-exceptionally-high-bar-media-set

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      el gordo

      Yeah the situation now is probably akin to the early 1950s, this from that CNN link.

      ‘Researchers are looking at one such theory, which considers a warm Arctic and cold continents — basically, a warmer Arctic featuring less sea ice that leads to more frequent spilling of cold air that’s normally trapped by the polar vortex.

      ‘That would mean the continents are hit with more frequent shots of Arctic air. Even though that Arctic air might not be as cold as normal, it is still plenty frigid to wreak havoc on populated places, locking them into long cold spells and major snow storms.’

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    theRealUniverse

    MSM tries to distract from alternative media by labeling it ‘fake news’ so they can publish more of their REAL fake news!

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    pat

    funny thing – CNN apparently had this early Nov, but I only find it on an NBC-affiliate site in Oklahoma & it states it is already “archived” there!
    thought it’d post it in light of the other 20 Nov CNN piece I posted:

    4 Nov: KFOR TV: CNN: Heather Holeman: Antarctica is gaining ice
    (This is an archived article and the information in the article may be outdated. Please look at the time stamp on the story to see when it was last updated.)
    (CNN) — Antarctica is gaining more ice than it has lost, according to a new study by NASA.
    A NASA team came to this conclusion after scientists examined the heights of continent’s the ice sheet measured from satellites.
    The continent is roughly the size of the United States and Mexico combined, and changes in the ice are not uniform across Antarctica. Some places are gaining ice, and some are losing ice.
    Many scientists agree that the Antarctic Peninsula and parts of West Antarctica are losing ice and that the rate of loss is increasing. In the eastern part of the continent and part of the interior, there have been ice gains. These gains, scientists from the study say, are more than the losses in the rest of the region.
    This net gain in ice would mean that Antarctica would not be contributing to sea level rises, but could help offset some of the major ice losses in places from Greenland and glaciers worldwide.
    Scientists suspect that increased snowfall, which began 10,000 years ago, is the reason for the gain in Antarctica. Over the years, the snow has accumulated and compacted to form ice.
    This snowfall added 112 billion tons of ice each year from 1992 to 2001, but the rate slowed to 82 billion tons per year from 2003 and 2008.
    However, this isn’t good news for our climate necessarily.
    Authors of the study say the increasing loss of ice in the West Antarctic and the peninsula, plus slowing ice gains elsewhere on the continent, could mean that there will be overall losses of ice in the next 20 years.
    In fact, this may already be occurring, according to other research published as recently as this week, which suggests the West Antarctic ice sheet is destabilizing, which would more than overcome the ice gains and could result in 3 meters of sea level rise…
    Right now, it’s believed that ice loss in Antarctica contributes to roughly 8% of global sea level rise. This rise can been seen in recent high tides in coastal cities like Miami.
    If this study is correct, and Antarctica is not contributing to this rise in sea level, that means scientists must be underestimating the impact from other sources of sea level rise — such as from melting from Greenland or the heating of the oceans.
    http://kfor.com/2015/11/04/antarctica-is-gaining-ice/

    plus here’s video of the insane Amanpour speech:

    23 Nov: Youtube: 15mins30secs: Amanpour receives Press Freedom Award
    CNN’s Christiane Amanpour received the Burton Benjamin Memorial Award for her work in the cause of press freedom at the International Press Freedom Awards.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=1&v=NawMb9ia0F4

    reminder – Amanpour’s husband:

    Wikipedia: James Rubin is an American former diplomat and journalist, and served as US Assistant Secretary of State for Public Affairs in the Clinton Administration from 1997—2000. He writes a regular column on foreign affairs for The Sunday Times of London…
    Having served in the State Department during the administration of President Bill Clinton, Rubin became a Sky News television news journalist and commentator. In 2013, he moved from New York City to live permanently in London, England, with his wife, CNN Chief International Correspondent and anchor Christiane Amanpour…
    After returning to the United States in 2007 in the run-up to the 2008 presidential election, Rubin was a member of Hillary Clinton’s campaign team for the 2008 Democratic nomination…
    Rubin joined Bloomberg News in December 2010 and oversees editorial issues of Bloomberg News in Central and South America, Mexico, Europe, the Middle East, Asia and Africa. He also led Bloomberg View, a Bloomberg op-ed project, with David Shipley. After only 10 months he quit the position, appointed adjunct professor at Columbia University…

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    pat

    presumably, this is the source for the KFOR/CNN piece of 4 Nov, which I posted just now, but which is in moderation:

    6 Nov: NASA: Study: Mass gains of Antarctic ice sheet greater than losses
    By Maria-José Viñas,
    NASA’s Earth Science News Team
    NOTE: The findings reported here conflict with over a decade of other measurements, including previous NASA studies. However, challenges to existing findings are an integral part of the scientific process and can help clarify and advance understanding. Additional scrutiny and follow-up research will be required before this study can be reconciled with the preponderance of evidence supporting the widely accepted model of a shrinking Antarctic ice sheet.
    A new NASA study says that an increase in Antarctic snow accumulation that began 10,000 years ago is currently adding enough ice to the continent to outweigh the increased losses from its thinning glaciers.
    The research challenges the conclusions of other studies, including the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change’s (IPCC) 2013 report, which says that Antarctica is overall losing land ice.
    According to the new analysis of satellite data, the Antarctic ice sheet showed a net gain of 112 billion tons of ice a year from 1992 to 2001. That net gain slowed to 82 billion tons of ice per year between 2003 and 2008…
    ***Related LINK: Learn more about this study
    http://climate.nasa.gov/news/2361/study-mass-gains-of-antarctic-ice-sheet-greater-than-losses/

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    pat

    ***links to govt documents:

    24 Nov: Desmog: UK Climate Diplomacy Staff Cut Again as Post-Brexit Links to Trump and US Deniers Strengthen
    By Mat Hope
    For the second year in a row, the foreign office reduced the number of people working on climate change and energy, documents ***(LINK) released by the government this week under a freedom of information request show.
    Currently, just 72 foreign office staff are working on climate issues full time. There are a total of 149 foreign office staff working at least part time on the issue.
    That was down from a high of 177 staff in January 2014, and 159 staff in 2015.
    The UK’s official delegation to the international talks was also somewhat depleted this year.
    The delegation’s most senior figure was climate minister Nick Hurd, with Secretary of State for the department of Business, Energy and Industrial Strategy Greg Clark not making the trip.
    This created some official difficulties as Hurd lacked the requisite authority to participate in some forums.
    For instance, the UK was not part of a High Ambition Coalition statement signed by 11 figureheads, including ministers from Germany and France, which said:…READ ON
    https://www.desmogblog.com/2016/11/23/uk-climate-diplomats-cut-again-post-brexit-links-trump-and-us-climate-deniers-strengthen

    a mere 4 comments, but the first is horrified by this bit of a fightback:

    22 Nov: BusinessInsider: New college
    professor ‘watchlist’ aims to expose professors who ‘advance leftist propaganda’
    by Colleen Flaherty, Inside Higher Ed
    http://www.businessinsider.com/college-professor-watchlist-expose-professors-who-advance-leftist-propaganda-2016-11?IR=T

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    RAH

    Sea ice at the poles comes and goes. They are dynamic and complex systems effected by multiple potential inputs. IMO the amount of sea ice at either pole is a miserable metric for gauging significant changes in this planets climate in the shorter term, though useful in the longer term. And yet people write reams arguing about this stuff every time there is some variation from the historic average. If I recall correctly it was just 2012 when a new record for sea ice extent at the Antarctic during the satellite era was set. Now here we are four years later with a new minimum. And this is supposed to be indicative of a warming world?

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    Svend Ferdinandsen

    “The study suggests that Antarctic sea-ice is much less sensitive to climate change than the Arctic, which has declined dramatically”
    It could also be a sign that climate change hardly is happening.

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    Oliver K. Manuel

    Coincidence: Over a much longer time period than 100 years, Roger Helmer shows a plot of periodic temperature changes in the northern half of a water-covered planet that is exactly one astronomical unit from a pulsar?

    https://rogerhelmermep.wordpress.com/2016/11/26/the-eu-against-eurosceptics/

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    Harry Twinotter

    It shows that Antarctic sea ice extent is variable.

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    Don Gaddes

    From February 2017, a Solar ‘X Factor’ induced One Year Orbital ‘Wet’ Cycle will begin circa 110 degrees East longitude, (Beijing.) This will reach Australia in early January 2018. (The current 2016 Lunar Metonic Cycle may affect the intensity of this cycle.)
    The orbital nature of these alternating ‘Dry’ and ‘Wet’ Cycles means they travel from East to West, with the Solar Orbit of the Earth’s Magnetic Field, thus the variation of influence depending on longitude.
    A Solar induced ‘Dry’ Cycle means less upper atmosphere water vapour albedo, higher temperatures and less upper atmosphere moisture,(less Snow, and therefore slowing glaciers)
    At the same time, a tip in the overall ‘Albedo Balance’, due to increased Volcanism etc, means more sea-ice and a cooler planet.
    These Cycles affect both the Arctic and Antarctic simultaneously.
    Currently the entire planet is under the influence of a Solar-induced Orbital ‘Dry’ Cycle, alleviated in some part by lower atmosphere moisture produced by the increased Albedo of volcanism and wind-blown dust. (In Australia’s case, from the Southern Hemisphere volcanism in Indonesia and South America.)
    Prevailing weather moves from West to East, and towards the Poles,(Axial Spin.)

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    John Robertson

    Same logic will be applied, if ever the ship logs of the British Royal Navy are researched.
    Too expense to do? Or little doubt they will not support the CAGW meme?

    We know a daily record of weather was kept, strange passion when sailing?
    This record spans an era for which we lack data and covers most regions of the globe.
    I have to insinuate willful blindness hard at work.
    Which indicates deliberate falsehood on the part of those manufacturing policy based evidence.

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    truth

    It fits with the Arctic melt being due not to CO2 but to soot[ black carbon] and the loss of albedo it causes…soot from burning of forests, peat and other biomass ..inefficient diesel engines…dung fires..across Asia, India, China and Northern Africa.

    The black carbon problem is relatively easily mitigated for almost immediate effect..so why do warmists ignore it ?

    Could it be because mitigation of BC might alert the world to their CO2 fraud?

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