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Spot the Vested Interest: The $1.5 Trillion Climate Change Industry

Climate Change Business Journal estimates the Climate Change Industry is a $1.5 Trillion dollar escapade, which means four billion dollars a day is spent on our quest to change the climate. That includes everything from carbon markets to carbon consulting, carbon sequestration, renewables, biofuels, green buildings and insipid cars. For comparison global retail sales online are worth around $1.5 trillion. So all the money wasted on the climate is equivalent to all the goods bought online.

The special thing about this industry is that it wouldn’t exist if it weren’t for an assumption about relative humidity that is probably wrong. As such, it’s the only major industry in the world dependent on consumer and voter ignorance. This is not just another vested interest in a political debate; it’s vested-on-steroids, a mere opinion poll away from extinction. You can almost hear the captains of climate industry bellowing: “Keep ‘em ignorant and believing, or the money goes away!”.

To state the obvious:

Policy, or the anticipation of new policy, has been one of the biggest drivers of the industry, the report shows.

 Most industries this size exist because they produce something the market wants. They worry that competitors might chip into their market share, but they don’t worry that the market might disappear overnight. Normal industries fear that a “bad” political outcome might reduce profits by ten or twenty percent, and sometimes they donate “both ways”. But the climate industry has literally a trillion on the table that depends on big-government policy and election outcomes. They are always one prime-time documentary away from disaster. What if the public saw that thermometers were next to industrial exhaust vents? What if they learned that the climate models are unskilled, broken, and non-functional, or that 28 million weather balloons show carbon reduction is fruitless pursuit? What if they knew historic records are wildly adjusted to make the current weather look warmer than it would?

So while The Guardian worries about the dark and evil influence of the fossil fuels industry they don’t seem at all concerned about the vested-monster-in-the-kitchen, the 1.5 Trillion Climate Industry. Ditto for the intrepid souls at the ABC/BBC/CBC who think they speak truth to power, but miss the most powerful lobby in the climate debate.

By the way, you can buy the 200 page Climate Change Consulting Report for $995, or not.

Climate Change Industry Growth, graph, 2004 to 2014,

….

Insurance Journal

Figures for the climate change consulting market are expected to more than double in the next five years, and the report’s authors believe the climate change industry as a whole will have an even steeper and faster growth trajectory than the environmental consulting industry – an industry that in 1976 had billings of $600 million and today generates $27 billion.

The sectors covered in the A new 200 page report  include:

I think the lesson here is that if you have a dodgy theory, set up a dependent industry fast, and sit back while they lobby and push your theory for you.

 

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221 comments to Spot the Vested Interest: The $1.5 Trillion Climate Change Industry

  • #

    The climate industry is an 800 pound gorilla pretending to be Bambi.

    500

    • #

      Gorilla in the mist tip-toeing through
      the tulips?

      220

    • #
      gai

      Gorilla?

      I think you have that spelt wrong. I thought the spelling was Godzilla

      80

    • #
      Manfred

      mosomoso, I need to be persuaded that the gorilla has the native wit to pretend to be anything other than the monster it is. The keepers are using it to ‘save the world‘ implement the ideological goals of eco-marxism.

      The climate industry monster is a demonic green giant in dire need of exorcism. That is, there appears no orthodox remedy likely to rid us of this extraordinary pestilence upon sanity.

      With pathological amounts of cunning and an unsustainable financial haemorrhage, ironically it relies on the very success of the ‘failed capitalist system’ (Figueres/UNFCCC) to achieve its goals, cynically and perversely mortgaging the prosperity and the financial well being and the very future of generations to come in the name of preventing just that.

      Christiana Figueres, executive secretary of U.N.’s Framework Convention on Climate Change, admitted that the goal of environmental activists is not to save the world from ecological calamity but to destroy capitalism.

      200

    • #
      MareeS

      I wish that dentist had shot the gorilla.

      120

    • #

      I think the fossil fuel industry is the vested interest, very powerful and very rich indeed. It is copying the tactics of the Pushers in Suits aka Big tobacco. Fools fall for the tricks, businesses are spending real money coping with AGW.

      I read thru here and shake my head at the willingness to be deceived on display all around.

      021

      • #
        tom0mason

        Coal industry is like the tobacco industry?
        Hahahah! :lol:
        What a laughable idea, but then again Maxine you can have your opinion — for what it’s worth.

        ;)

        150

      • #

        What you may not have noticed is that Big Oil is having more than a flirtation with Big Green. It’s becoming a marriage.

        You see, wasteful, expensive, diffuse and inadequate “renewables” have to be supplemented by the products of Big Oil, gas especially. That’s why the likes of Chevron, Exxon, Gazprom, Shell, Boone Pickens etc have been willing to kiss Green Blob. Yep, that’s why Chevron was tipping all those millions into Sierra, till Greenpeace got jealous and howled till they stopped.

        Coca Cola is worried about Pepsi Cola. Big Oil is worried about its true competitors, coal and nukes. And when you look at the scale of Germany’s return to brown coal, one can see why. The big coal consumers don’t mind preaching green and making “commitments”. But they’re not silly enough to rely on what gets piped to them from Mother Russia or Qatar. And when you go green, unless you can terraform your country into Norway, you go pipeline.

        Shake you head at that.

        200

      • #
        Glenn999

        what’s wrong with tobacco?

        20

      • #
        nightspore

        Yes, they’re so powerful, they’re even cooling the earth just to fool us into thinking global warming isn’t happening.

        90

  • #
    pat

    ***add the CARBON SPREAD REPORT to the mix.
    CAGW – the gift that promises $$$ to all:

    30 July: Business Green: Madeleine Cuff: How carbon reporting can unlock multi-million dollar benefits
    EXCLUSIVE: Report details how businesses could save huge sums of money by voluntarily reporting their carbon emissions
    Businesses will go to great lengths to convince the markets they are a safe investment. But it might come as a surprise that one of the best things a company can do to boost its investment credibility is voluntarily publish details of its environmental impact.
    That’s according to emerging research from academics at Maastricht University in the Netherlands and Oxford University in the UK, which finds that companies can save millions of pounds on the cost of debt interest by volunteering data on their carbon emissions…
    Last November saw the Royal Society warn the world’s financial markets and reporting rules need a major overhaul in order to adequately tackle climate risks. Meanwhile, an impending EU directive, due to come into force in 2017, will require large European companies to publish a range of non-financial information – including environmental information such as greenhouse gas emissions – alongside their financial reports. It follows similar moves in the US to require listed firms to report on material risks, including environmental and climate risks…
    The ***CARBON SPREAD REPORT suggests companies that pre-empt these regulatory pressures will reap impressive financial rewards. The paper, which has not yet been published, looks at the impact voluntary carbon emissions disclosure has on the cost of corporate debt for public companies. The analysis is based on the spread levels of bank loans, which show how much above the interest rate benchmark a company has to pay on debt.
    Co-author Michael Viehs said the paper reveals two key findings…
    He also expressed hopes the research will prompt banks and institutional lenders to look more closely at a company’s environmental reporting standards when assessing their credit worthiness. His comments echo recent calls from the Chartered Institute of Internal Auditors, which last month called for the environmental information provided by firms to be subjected to closer analysis by auditors…READ ON
    http://www.businessgreen.com/bg/analysis/2419858/how-carbon-reporting-can-unlock-multi-million-dollar-benefits

    194

  • #
    pat

    piffling amounts by comparison, but at least the authorities appear to be doing something:

    31 July: Guardian: Portland icebreaker protesters cleared after judge fines Greenpeace $2,500 an hour
    Authorities force back kayakers blocking the path of Royal Dutch Shell ship headed to Arctic oil drilling fields
    by Ellen Brait and agencies
    Authorities have forced protesters in kayaks from a river in Portland, Oregon, where they were trying to stop a Royal Dutch Shell icebreaker from leaving dry dock and joining an Arctic oil drilling operation.
    Police also tried to lower protesters who were dangling from a bridge into the water below. Sergeant Pete Simpson said safety was the main priority, and police and coast guard officers were joined by firefighters and a rope-rescue team.
    A federal judge in Alaska had earlier ordered Greenpeace USA to pay a fine of $2,500 for every hour that protesters continued to block the icebreaker from leaving for the Arctic.
    US district court judge Sharon Gleason ruled on Thursday in Anchorage that Greenpeace was in civil contempt because of protesters dangling off the bridge and impeding the vessel…
    http://www.theguardian.com/business/2015/jul/30/portland-shell-bridge-protesters-greenpeace-fined

    some bits the Guardian left out:

    31 July: Sky News: AFP: Judge fines Greenpeace for blocking ship
    The fine will increase the longer the protest continues, according to the local KGW News.Starting at 10am on Friday (0300 AEST on Saturday), Greenpeace will be fined $US5,000 an hour, increasing to $US7,500 an hour on Saturday and $US10,000 an hour from Sunday.Greenpeace’s press office did not immediately respond to a request for comment…
    On the green group’s Twitter page it urged its supporters to sign an online petition to the White House calling on the Obama administration to rescind Shell’s Arctic drilling lease…
    http://www.skynews.com.au/news/world/nthamerica/2015/07/31/judge-fines-greenpeace-for-blocking-ship.html

    so many NGOs who do nothing but work on behalf of the CAGW vested interests. a pox on all their organisations.

    432

    • #
      James Murphy

      It beats me why these protestors seem to think Arctic drilling is new, when such activities have been happening in similarly delicate/sensitive environments for years.

      A few years ago I worked with a gentleman who, every year, looked forward to the time he would spend on a conventional drilling rig in Antarctica – obviously for scientific purposes, not oil/gas, but the process is identical. I imagine if Greenpeace hear about that, they’ll have a fit.

      Is drilling completely harmless? No, but this campaign, as with many of the campaigns now run by Greenpeace, is misguided, and severely lacks technical knowledge.

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      • #
        jorgekafkazar

        [T]his campaign, as with many of the campaigns now run by Greenpeace, is misguided, and severely lacks technical knowledge.

        “The Revolution has no need for Science.”

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      • #
        aussieguy

        severely lacks technical knowledge


        Look at the words of its co-founder Patrick Moore (who quit the organisation in the mid-1980s)…

        => “took a sharp turn to the political left”
        => “evolved into an organization of extremism and politically motivated agendas”
        => “abandoned science and logic in favor of emotion and sensationalism.”
        => “invent doom and gloom scenarios”
        => None of his “fellow directors had any formal science education”


        And if you want to know what they think about nuclear power? (Basic gist)
        => Nuclear energy is synonymous with nuclear holocaust.
        => Everything nuclear is evil.

        NOTHING about Greenpeace has been backed by the scientific method in a long time. (Let alone common sense).

        The best Greenpeace can come up with (against Moore’s comments), is that he’s old…Trying to portray him as a senile old fool.


        Look at Greenpeace’s finances…Budget: Approx €240 million (AUD$361 million)

        This isn’t an Activist Organisation…Its an Activist Corporation in its own right! They have general consultative status with the United Nations. Which means they can whisper sweet eco-nothings into the ears of decision/policy makers. Just like that e3g.org eco think-tank I mentioned weeks ago. The latter can whisper into the ears of UK Govt circles. They even brag about it as a plus!


        The day Greenpeace lost me was the very day two of their own destroyed CSIRO research back in 2011.
        => http://www.canberratimes.com.au/act-news/gm-crop-destroyers-given-suspended-sentences-20121119-29l66.html

        …Note carefully how Greenpeace was easily able to whip out $280,000 to pay back CSIRO for the damage. How many activist organisations do you know who can pay for lawyers AND reparations at a drop of a hat? (That’s an indication of how much economic firepower they have; when the crapper hits the fan.)



        SIDE NOTE:

        Look how Environmentalism has evolved over the decades…

        1st generation Environmentalism was protesting based on science and logic.
        ==> 1st gen had public support. (Conservation and a lot less pollution).

        2nd generation Environmentalism was about emotion and sensationalism. (Dropping science and logic).
        ==> 2nd gen lost public support. (No one cares when a few Greenpeace activists were held in prison by Russian Govt).

        3rd generation Environmentalism is about influencing decision/policy makers. (Doesn’t matter if its United Nations or individual Govts.)
        ==> 3rd gen tries to circumvent public by influencing the top. (They take the modern Leftist thinking of believing they know what’s best for the people…By ignoring the people.)

        Guess what e3g stands for in e3g.org think-tank? => Third Generation Environmentalism.

        90

    • #
      tom0mason

      Pat,
      I hope a large part of the $2,500 an hour fine on Greedpeas goes straight to Shell, a publc display of them handing over the check would be even better.

      150

    • #
      Angry

      All NGOs must be taxed…

      80

  • #

    The $1.5 trillion is also equivalent to Australia’s GDP, or around 2% of global output.
    Back in 2006 the Stern Review stated.

    Using the results from formal economic models, the Review estimates that if we don’t act, the overall costs and risks of climate change will be equivalent to losing at least 5% of global GDP each year, now and forever. …… In contrast, the costs of action – reducing greenhouse gas emissions to avoid the worst impacts of climate change – can be limited to around 1% of global GDP each year.

    The current expenditure is already twice what Stern predicted, and that money is not delivering emissions constraints. As for the alleged costs it is supposed to be mitigating, where are the crop failures, collapsing ice sheets, worsening cyclones etc. that Stern based the costs of global warming upon?

    550

    • #
      Sceptical Sam

      So true.

      The band wagon is in full swing.

      100

      • #
        Glen Michel

        Fools all the way down.One can try to get some of these people to stop and think……. impossible!Hardwired to idiocy.I mean it!

        250

        • #
          Rick Bradford

          A useful way to look at this is what Thomas Sowell calls the ‘Unconstrained Vision’ versus the ‘Constrained Vision’.

          Under the ‘Constrained Vision’ it is recognized that humans are irretrievably and chronically flawed, and all we can do is find trade-offs which gradually make things (overall) a bit better.

          The ‘Unconstrained Vision’ believes that humans are innately perfectible, as long as the system is improved, and that the best and brightest (usually self-appointed) should be given free rein to decide the direction that society takes.

          They sincerely believe they hold a superior understanding of what is best for humanity: what constitutes our “perfected” state.

          Consequently, they derive a sense of moral obligation – an imperative, if you will – to save mankind from itself.

          Reflect on how many of the disasters of the last 40 years can be ascribed to the blind hubris of the “anointed”, as Sowell calls them.

          200

          • #
            gai

            I think this applies more to the ‘Useful Innocents’ The ones at the top orchestrating everything are not so naive. They are just after the power and the wealth and the fun of the ‘chess game’ and the [self-snip] with the Unwashed Masses.

            I do not think they do not even see us as human.

            90

        • #
          Rereke Whakaaro

          As I have quoted before, on this site:

          Do not try to teach your pig to sing. It wastes your time, and annoys the pig.

          140

          • #
            Bill

            Kudos to R.A. Heinlein!

            also:

            “Stupidity cannot be cured. Stupidity is the only universal capital crime; the sentence is death. There is no appeal, and execution is carried out automatically and without pity.”

            50

    • #
      gai

      “…where are the crop failures, collapsing ice sheets,…. that Stern based the costs of global warming upon?”
      …………….

      Here they are:
      collapsing ice sheets?
      July 24, 2015 …Ice refusing to melt in east Hudson Bay and Frobisher Bay holding up resupply of Iqaluit

      ………….

      Some of the news on livestock

      Feb 10, 2010 …Mongolian and international aid agencies estimate that more than 2 million domestic animals have perished so far

      Feb 26, 2013 …Tibetan nomadic communities have lost around 5000 goats and sheep till now, …we are most concerned over Kharnak, which remains cut off due to heavy snowfall and we have no information on how severe the condition is in that region.

      Jan 15 2011 …7,000 buffaloes and cows freeze to death in Vietnam

      Apr 9, 2013 … Carcasses of more than 8,000 sheep that died in snow blizzards last month have been collected from farms in Northern Ireland to date.Desperate farmers are still battling snowdrifts up to 30 feet (9m) deep in search of their animals.

      Jun 24, 2013 …At least 33,000 sheep and cattle stranded in deep snow – NZ

      Aug 28, 2013 …More than 250,000 alpacas die of cold and snow – Peru

      Sept 1, 2013 …Tens of thousands of animals have frozen to death over the past week – Peru

      Oct 15, 2013 …Up to 100,000 cattle dead from blizzard – South Dakota

      Jun 3, 2014 … Sixty-thousand head of cattle killed by the cold – Bolivia

      Apr 1, 2014 …900 sheep perish in snowstorm – Turkey

      Oct 26, 2014 …230 sheep killed, fell off a cliff in snow storm – Turkey

      Oct 26, 2014 …Sheep trapped in snow – Greece

      Jul 11, 2015 … At least 75,000 head of cattle killed by the cold – Bolivia

      Jul 24 2015 … Coldest winter in decades – 250,000 alpacas die – Peru

      ………….

      Fruits and Veggies

      Feb 19, 2012 …Up to 70 percent of fruit from orchards may be lost in Astrakhan, north of the Caspian Sea. Elsewhere, the problem is much the same…only about half of the country’s grapevines are sheltered…“As concerns apples and plums, it should be expected 10 to 30 percent of them will die off,”… damage to the harvest would be measured in the billions of rubles. — Russia

      May 5, 2012 …“Worst disaster fruit growers have ever, ever experienced” “All fruit growing areas in basically the Great Lakes area, in Michigan, Pennsylvania, New York State, Ontario, are all basically wiped out,”…A catastrophic freeze has wiped out about 80 per cent of Ontario’s apple crop…Some growers across Ontario have also lost entire orchards of peaches, sour cherries, pears, plums and nectarines.

      Jan 9, 2013 …Northeast China coldest in 43 years, Average price of vegetables jumps 55 percent in ten weeks…. Snow and ice have closed highways, canceled flights, stranded tourists and knocked out power in several provinces.

      Oct 28, 2013 …The worst frost since 1929 has damaged 50 million boxes of Chilean fruit exports — causing the country to declare a state of emergency in its agricultural sector.

      Jun 16, 2014 … Ust-Tsilemskii area began heavy snowfall accompanied by strong northerly winds with temperatures below freezing. Residents are worried that the abnormal cold can ruin their vegetable gardens. — Russia

      Jul 12, 2014 …cold snap is predicted to send vegetable prices soaring up to three times normal prices. The combination of an unusually late start to winter plus a sudden plummet to near-record lows has confused the growing cycles of just about every plant. Broccoli, cucumbers, cauliflower, snow peas and lettuce are among the varieties tipped to be more pricey.” – Brisbane

      Oct 7, 2014 …Snow and cold endanger harvest in Kyrgyzstan and Mid-Ural…much of the grain in the Mid-Ural area was not ripe yet, so new snowfall there is not good news

      Feb 20, 2015 …Freezing temperatures in Florida are threatening orange crops – USA
      November 24, 2014 …The Holland Marsh Growers Association estimates there are approximately 200 acres of carrots still in the ground locally

      Apr 10, 2015 ….Lake Erie region grape growers hammered by another brutal winter… Last year, vast percentages of wine grapes were wiped out by the bitter cold,….. This winter, extreme temperatures of up to 30 below zero (Fahrenheit) killed off the buds in up to 60 percent of the hardier native Concord and Niagara grapes – New York USA

      H/T to IceAgeNow

      331

      • #
        gai

        You can bet your booties that these disasters would have been front page news in the MSM if they could have been hooked to Global Warming.

        Actually this article talking about food price inflation in the USA, does the Global Warming Dance.

        … An ongoing drought in California is impacting almost every type of fruit and veggie that makes it to your dinner plate.

        Actually droughts are much more common in cold conditions as you can see in the expansion and contraction of the Sahara from the Wisconsin Ice age through the Holocene.
        link

        Also California is a DESERT that was turned into a garden through irrigation. Now that the Greenies threw a hissy fit over an invasive species of fish (Snail Darter) that irrigation water has been turned off.

        Finally at the end of the first page we see that there are other causes:

        In addition to the drought, the growing season has had a slower start due to cooler and wetter than normal weather. And Hurt suspects this could impact grains and oilseeds, which could affect prices for cereals, baked goods and vegetable oils.

        So cooler wetter weather is drought…
        Also “According to Dr. Christopher Hurt, an agricultural economist at Purdue University, beef supplies are expected to drop 5% in 2014—and the number of beef cow herds is at its lowest since 1962.”

        No mention of the USDA/FDA war on farmers and the new Food Safety Modernization Act signed into law on January 4th, 2011. I took one look at that (self-snip) law and traded my meat animals for fiber animals.

        181

      • #
        handjive

        collapsing ice sheets?

        It appears the antarctic ice is not going anywhere soon:

        ABC science, 30 July 2015: Westerlies ‘kick-started’ Antarctic current

        The strongest ocean current in the world only started flowing once Tasmania drifted north of the prevailing westerly winds 30 million years ago, say researchers.

        “The Antarctic Circumpolar Current (ACC) is today the strongest ocean current in the world and it helps keep Antarctica cold,” says marine geophysicist co-author, Dr Joanne Whittaker of the University of Tasmania.

        “It thermally isolates Antarctica so you can’t get warmer currents coming down from lower latitudes and warming up the continent.”

        As well as helping to stop Antarctica’s ice sheets from melting, the current helps regulate the exchange of heat and carbon between the ocean and the atmosphere.

        Poorly understood
        “Despite its role in stabilising Antarctic ice sheets, the onset of the Antarctic Circumpolar Current has been poorly understood,” says Whittaker.
        . . .
        Settled?

        Carbon(sic) will melt the antarctic?

        Tell ‘em they’re dreamin’!

        101

    • #
      Leonard Lane

      Kevin, none of these benefits will ever be seen. The $Trillions are being wasted on big government, big universities, big non-profits, and big politicians, and big crony handouts from government.
      Imagine the good that these funds could do if returned to the taxpayers to spend on growing economies.

      140

    • #
      tom0mason

      “collapsing ice sheets?” :oops:
      Some believe that you’ll be able to sail the Arctic Northwest passage come the summer of 2016, so book now …
      8O

      http://www.polarcruises.com/arctic/ships/expedition-ships/ocean-endeavour-arctic/out-northwest-passage-2016
      or
      http://www.crystalcruises.com/OfferDetail.aspx?OG=220

      And are they being wildly optimistic?
      http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/north/crystal-serenity-to-become-1st-luxury-ship-to-tackle-northwest-passage-1.2737374

      Arctic ‘unpredictable’

      The people behind the luxury cruise admit that the Arctic is a challenging region for travel.

      “Anyone that’s worked in the Arctic or polar regions in general knows that nothing is predictable,” Soper says.

      Mazloum says the company has already spent two years preparing for the trip.

      “Because it’s not like a destination that we were initially too familiar with. We obviously had to do a lot of ground work whether it’s on the safety side, whether it’s facilities, whether it’s what our customers are interested in.”

      50

      • #
        gai

        handjive,

        My thoughts are if you want to know what is really happening to the climate watch Antarctica.

        The Antarctic sea ice extent ANOMALY has been hitting record highs for the last few years. This “excess” Antarctica sea ice is between latitude 60 south and latitude 59 south and it covers an area larger than the entire area of Hudson Bay (also centered at latitude 60) This “excess” sea ice is also about HALF the size of Greenland (a region centered between 60 north and 80 north latitude).

        At today’s sea ice extents, the “edge” of the Arctic sea is a tiny ring about latitude 78 -82 north in mid-September. The “edge” of Antarctic’s sea ice minimum is also a “ring” – but that ring is about latitude 66 south. Much closer to the equator, much more energy reflected from the Antarctic sea ice, right? Closer to the equator than even the most southern tip of Greenland!

        What are the relative effects on the earth’s albedo?

        At the equinoxes, when both Arctic and Antarctic are both hit by the same solar intensity, the Antarctic Sea Ice receives between 2x (Feb-March) to 5x (September-October) the energy that the Arctic sea ice receives. Thus, to reflect equal energy into space, the “gain” of even 1.0 Mkm^2 of southern sea ice extents needs to be balanced by a loss 2 to 5 LARGER in the Arctic.
        Stolen and paraphrased from RACookPE1978 @ WUWT

        What about the geography? As you said the formation of the Antarctic Circumpolar Current (ACC) is what stabilized the the Antarctic ice sheet and keeps it from melting. The Formation of Drake Passage, the water passage between the tip of South America and Antarctic, is what allowed the Antarctic Circumpolar Current to form.

        Changes in the winds that drive the ACC regulate the Humboldt current that flows up the coast of South America. The response of anchovies to the changes in the Humboldt current was the origin of the name El Nino.

        So what happens to that current that is critical to ENSO when Drake Passage is clogged with sea ice year round?

        Looks like we may find out the hard way.

        As far as I am concerned the constant Arctic ballyhoo is a fine example of misdirection.

        40

        • #
          tom0mason

          gai,

          “As far as I am concerned the constant Arctic ballyhoo is a fine example of misdirection.”

          Absolutely! Misdirection from sea ice out from Antarctica still at record levels. When you consider that with the earth’s elliptical orbit, Southern Hemisphere summer is when the earth is closest to the sun. But still the ice grows!

          No my point was that many silly people are still of a mind that Arctic Ice levels are important (IMO no it is not).

          30

      • #
        gai

        “…We obviously had to do a lot of ground work whether it’s on the safety side, whether it’s facilities, whether it’s what our customers are interested in, whether we can con customers into coughing up 100% down on non-refundable tickets or only 50%… ”

        There fixed it.

        40

      • #
        Bill

        Don’t bet on travelling the NWP any time soon. Anyone who has EVER been up there knows that it’s not going to be ice free in the foreseeable future.

        30

  • #
    TdeF

    It is tragic that a tiny fraction of that money is not spent on alternative sources of energy! Even geothermal.

    Windmills were written off two hundred years ago. Solar panels have an obvious problem, apart from the conversion problem and all of these have storage problems. There are no batteries big enough. No, nuclear is the only solution. At the current rates of consumption and growth, we are probably half way through fossil fuels so that will fix itself, but $1.5Tn a year on fusion and Thorium would see us able to use oil for lubrication and plastics and not just burned up.

    My favorite as I decided in the 1970s was to use electricity to make aluminium metal and burn it for power. It is safe, plentiful, easily transported, storable and usable for other purposes, like oil. Unlike oil, it is 100% renewable. 90% pure energy to make, if we recycled AL2O3, it would be 100% pure energy. At 2.2x the density of oil and about the same price, it has half the heat of combustion, so an 80 litre fuel tank could carry 80litres of aluminium (160kg). In volume it could be cheaper than oil. There are many ways to burn it, but a steam engine comes to mind. No exhaust, just steam.

    Carbon is many things, but also a metal. The future is in recyclable metals, but when everyone is building windmills and solar panels, nothing happens.

    230

    • #
      TdeF

      By the way, around the world aluminium smelters are right next to power stations to use the excess electricity at night as the base load cannot vary. This is all free. Who needs giant batteries when you can have it stored in pure aluminium? You can also generate energy a thousand km from where people live, on site at wind farms if necessary so that you do not get those huge distribution losses of 50%.

      Except in Victoria where the Portland smelter was effectively put as far from Yallourn as possible, for political reasons. We should also use excess natural energies to run our desalination plants, at night. Water is a very valuable resource which can be sold. Apart from sunlight, only two things are needed for food, CO2 and H2O. Trace elements matter and Nitrogen fertilizer, but that’s all. Why is the desaliniation plant idle, at a cost of $50Million per year? Also in South Australia and New South Wales?

      241

      • #
        TdeF

        The desalination plant is actually costing over $1Bn a year to buy, for the next 25 years. On top of that, we have a full time staff to keep it idling so that it does not become completely worthless when we have finally finished paying for it. Similarly with the other plants, $3-$4 million a day for nothing.

        221

      • #
        TdeF

        Just refreshing my figures on aluminium vs petrol.

        Energy density Aluminium@83MJ/litre vs Petrol@39MJ/litre
        Cost Aluminium@$1.68/kg. Density 2.2 so about $3.50 per litre vs Petrol@$1 per litre
        Cost per MJ. Aluminum 350c/83 so 4.5cents vs 2.6centre per MJ

        However consider this cost is from Bauxite, a big cost not needed if Alumina was recycled. Also the volumes would be fantastic. So alumunium/aluminum (US Spelling) would be competitive with oil as a fuel and we would not run out. All we need now is waste electricity and an engine which burns aluminium. Or a fuel cell. Doc Brown’s future car would run on aluminium cans after all!

        The downside is that the CO2 is produced in making the Al, not burning it. You cannot win every battle, but the plants would be grateful.

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          Konrad

          The burning of aluminium is a fascinating area of study. My experience was with the “clatons nuke” or FAE. Aluminium will not just burn in air, but due to the incredible temperatures capable of causing molecular dissociation it can burn in CO2 or water.

          An interesting recent area of study is ALICE, a solid rocket fuel made of water ice and aluminium powder.

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          Spetzer86

          Gas is USD $2.59 / US Gallon in American mid-west today! Just remember that not all green taxes show up in obviously green items.

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            gai

            Yes and think of all the tax truckers pay on diesel (now $0.50) more than gas. It ALL gets passed to you as an increase on the price of food and goods.

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        • #

          Is there EROI data for aluminum as fuel?

          10

      • #
        AndrewWA

        It’s very telling that there are 3 aluminium smelters located in Iceland.

        Why? Because of cheap energy.

        There used to be one in Portland, ictoria.

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      gnome

      I think you’ve got to the bottom of the question of why aluminium was demonised some while ago as causing Alzheimer’s. Whatever happened to that scare?

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      • #
        Rereke Whakaaro

        We can’t remember …

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        David Maddison

        causing Alzheimer’s. Whatever happened to that scare?

        It turned out the aluminium found in the brain tissue was a result of aluminium found in the tissue staining agent used to prepare the microscope specimens…

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      Stupendus

      A tiny fraction ($25 billion) could be spent to end world hunger according to the UN but they would rather spend it on ?????

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  • #
    Yonniestone

    Sorry for going a bit O/T so early but it’ needs to be said, again, a bloke at my work has been away for a month, we heard he was ill and only today found out he has liver cancer, we found out as he came in to say hello and maybe goodbye, this guy is possibly one the nicest people you will ever meet and I don’t say things like that lightly.

    The real kicker is he had to pay extra for chemotherapy, specialists, medication etc..despite having cover, now when I see a genuinely good law abiding person going through crap like this and then read of the obscene amount of public money being funneled into the pockets of greedy self absorbed pieces of shit that contribute little to human benefit but really promote increased hardship, well…it just…sorry I can’t find the words as I’m pretty upset, apologies.

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    • #
      gai

      I lost my best friend at work to Liver Cancer. NASTY NASTY disease.

      My prayer go out to him.

      ………

      And yes the awful waste of not only money but labor and ingenuity is completely maddening.

      I am presently cleaning our book shelves and snagged my Husband’s copy of The Ancient Engineers by L.Sprague de Camp (1960) for a read. He makes two observations that are applicable to the current mess.

      #1. “Now in any society, only a few human beings ever have original ideas or make inventions. Of these only a fraction have the courage, stubbornness, and energy to keep on bettering their inventions until they really work…” He uses the USA patent office to get a feel for the rate of inventors in a population and comes out with “one patentable invention each year for every 4,500 citizens” Since this number comes from the 1950s, it is not confounded with too much regulation or software patents.

      #2. Until you have agriculture and therefore leisure at least for a few you do not get many inventions because your potential inventor is trying to feed himself not invent.

      This means ‘Access to Energy’ (equaling leisure time) plus a high population gives you an increased rate of invention.

      So what is happening now? Real wealth per capita in the first world countries is going down, regulation is stifling small businesses and also innovation. (If it is not to Code you can’t build it….You need to fill out an environmental impact statement… get a survey delineating ever 5 feet of elevation….)

      The Greenies, Luddites and Malthusians not only want to cap population they want to reverse both population and the clock back to ‘A Simpler and Gentler Time’

      In other words there is a deliberate world wide move to trash any further innovations with the ultimate goal of complete control all humans and their output.

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      Rereke Whakaaro

      Don’t apologise. We all understand.

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    • #
  • #

    I suspect that this pales into insignificance, compared to the money being spent by Big Oil on climate change denial.

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    • #
      john karajas

      I suspect that the fundamental question here is: Does Naomi Klein approve of it? /sarc.

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      Ken Stewart

      I presume you meant to add /sarc ?

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      Konrad

      ”I suspect that this pales into insignificance, compared to the money being spent by Big Oil on climate change denial.”

      Indeed. It is a wonder that the postal service hasn’t collapsed under the crushing burden of all those undelivered Big Oil cheques. Sceptics are starving due to their shocking inefficiencies.

      As we wait for the Big Oil billions to arrive, we will just have to keep topping up Jo’s tip jar and hoping.

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    • #

      You can do the calculations for yourself by reading the SPPI paper linked on the left. Just remember $1.5 trn = $1500 bn = $1,500,000 million.
      http://scienceandpublicpolicy.org/images/stories/papers/originals/climate_money.pdf

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        gai

        Kevin
        Since he is obviously a product of the Progressive Education System I do not think he is capable of arithmetic.

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          Gai
          In preparation for learning arithmetic, primary schools in the UK teach the 3-5 year-olds the difference between big and small. When my own children were small I taught them the difference between the trivial and the non-trivial. By learning these simple distinctions one learns orders of magnitude. A much later step is learning about priorities, and recognizing that people can quite legitimately reach different points of view.
          It gets even more difficult when starting a complex subject like climatology, along with the separate issues of policy and ethics. Despite many thousands have studied the subject, there are a number of basic fundamentals that are ignored. If people got to grips with these aspects, then 2% of global output would not be flushed away every year.

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        Rereke Whakaaro

        Or understanding why all those zeros are there. “I mean, a zero is less than one, so it means nothing, right?” (insert hair-flick here)

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    • #
      Peter Miller

      Big Oil’s funding of sceptics, one of the greatest lies of climate alarmists.

      And there are so many more of them, and that’s before you get to data manipulation/torturing and chronic grant addiction.

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      gai

      Are you talking about all the money Shell Oil, BP and Standard Oil (Rockefeller Funds) are spending on the Climate Research Foundation, grants to colleges, grants to WWF, Green Peace, Sierra Club and others?

      Yes I agree Big Oil is spending LOTS and LOTS of money promoting the trashing of their RIVAL — COAL while investing in solar, wind, and carbon trading so they can vacuum up all that tax payer money.

      (I really wish the Greenies would do a bit of research before promoting the lies of the Oil Cartel. SHEESH Talk about Useful Innocents…)

      ……………..

      I am STILL waiting for that first check from Big Oil, they keep saying it is in the mail. I want to get one of them ther’ metal roofs and a geo-thermal heating system.

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      andersm0

      A silly throwaway comment.

      Get back to us when you can give us corroborated comparison of Big Oil’s funding on climate sceptics against funding sources for pro-AGW science. A good place to start with Oil’s funding of AGW might be with the Climategate emails and Phil Jones discussion of wooing a grant from Shell Oil.

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    • #

      I thought people would know me by now and that I wouldn’t have to elephant stamp a great big sarcasm label to my post. :)

      Seriously, seeing people shooting first and asking questions later is not a good look for this forum.

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      • #
        gai

        bemused,
        The problem is you imitate them so well that those of us not familiar with the denizens of Jo’s site fall for the bait.

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        Rereke Whakaaro

        The problem with flying a false-flag, is that you sometimes get blown out of the water by your own side. The Somalian Pirates learnt that, when they tried experimenting with flags “liberated” from previous victims.

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        • #

          What I realise is necessary, in future, is to ensure that a prominent sarcasm warning is displayed for those with a hair trigger and instinctive reflexes. I tend to read initial and subsequent comments before making any judgement calls, as I’ve discovered that initial impressions can often be misleading.

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            gai

            Many of us have played Wack-a-Troll for so many years now that it is automatic.

            The thumbs down were pushed the day before the explanation. (At least it wasn’t live fire. My ex’s field artillery unit managed to blow-up the mess tent a few years before he was assigned to that battalion.)

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          • #
            Bill

            or
            in the interests of clarity, you could simply post a clear statement of your meaning instead of playing bait so the visiting trophy hunting dentist can “take” you.

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        • #
          PiperPaul

          Climate science has been in Poe’s Law territory for quite some time now.

          10

      • #
        andersm0

        Bemused, I’m only an occasional visitor to this forum, as I suspect are the others who down-voted you. Those of us who are not regulars only know people by what they post. Rarely have I seen anyone query a negative post before formulating a reply. So the lesson here is for all of us to be clear on what we mean. I learned that the hard way when I made a facetious comment and nearly lost my ears in the blowback on something intended to amuse. Thanks clarifying your intent. I would have made a grave error by throwing you into the black-hat box.

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        • #

          There’s no hard feelings towards anyone. I wasn’t able to revisit the blog until this morning, so I couldn’t fly the white flag in time to avert the gunfire. However, it is interesting that only one person appeared to question whether I was being serious.

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          • #
            Bob in Castlemaine

            Not to worry Bemused, as long as you don’t decide to play the victim over this current storm-in-a-teacup. We wouldn’t want to see you get “booed” over it now would we?

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  • #
    Peter Miller

    A good analogy might be France’s Maginot Line, a huge amount of money spent on something which:

    1. Achieved absolutely nothing,

    2. Cost a ridiculous amount of money.

    3. Employed huge amounts of people.

    4. Used flawed logic, and

    5. Made some people feel good.

    6. Politically motivated.

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      For the believers in climate catastrophism there is a more apt analogy. Hitler was able to bypass the defenses by attacking through Belgium. Climate emissions reduction policies will only be implemented by some rich countries, whilst emissions will continue to rise in the developing world where the majority of the world’s population live. If folks were really serious about reducing emissions, rather than pandering to ideologues, they would be talking about emission reduction targets for all countries. But then any sensible Governments would fail to turn up at the talks.

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      • #
        gai

        “…If folks were really serious about reducing emissions, rather than pandering to ideologues, they would be talking about emission reduction targets for all countries. But then any sensible Governments would fail to turn up at the talks.”
        ………..

        Especially China who is building coal plants at the rate of one coal-fired power plant every 7 to 10 days, and is on track to double annual U.S. carbon dioxide emissions by 2017. When it comes to building coal plants, India is a close second. These are two of the most populous industrializing countries. (Don’t forget that India has recently kicked out Green Peace international and shut down the local Green Peace.)
        Countries Worldwide Propose to Build 1,200 New Coal Plants

        While the war on coal is working, reducing coal generation and consumption and associated carbon dioxide emissions here in the United States, many world economies are looking towards coal for future generation needs. China, India, Russia, and Germany, to name a few, are building coal-fired power plants. Worldwide coal plant construction grew 5.4 percent over the past year and now represents about 30 percent of installed capacity. According to the World Resources Institute, almost 1,200 coal-fired power plants are in the planning stages (a capacity of 1.4 million megawatts) and over three-quarters of them are to be built in China and India, where over 500,000 megawatts each are currently planned for construction.

        …the United States has 319 gigawatts of coal-fired electric generating capacity. Until recently, these plants have generated about 50 percent of America’s electricity. Now China and India are planning to build over 60 percent more coal-fired capacity than the coal-fired generating capacity that currently exists in the United States.

        Further, many of these countries, China and India in particular, can no longer produce enough coal for their needs and must import coal. In 2010, world coal trade increased by 13.4 percent, reaching 1.08 billion metric tons.

        World Population: 7,325,000,000

        China: ..1,357,000,000
        India: ..1,252,000,000
        Russia: ….143,500,000
        —————————-
        TOTAL …2,7520,000,000 – that is more than one third of the world’s population.

        Australia: ..23,130,000
        Canada ……35,160,000
        EU ………508,000,000
        USA ……..318,900,000
        —————————
        TOTAL …….885,190,000

        Combined we do not even make one India much less one China. CAGW and the Paris talks make less and less sense the more you dig.

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        • #
          Rereke Whakaaro

          Yep. As I keep on pointing out to people, fully half of the world’s population live in Southeast Asia, or the Indian subcontinent.

          Do they care about climate change? Nope, they are just too busy getting on with life.

          AGW is a mental affectation of the chattering classes in the West, who spend most of their adolescent lives in terminal boredom. They desperately need something, anything, that they can cling to, in order to justify their existence.

          And where there is a market, there is always somebody who will satisfy the need.

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          • #
            gai

            The problem is American children do not spend enough time following the north end of a south bound mule as it is plowing or any other major chores. Instead government schools have even done away with gym, and put soda and candy machines in school. Then teachers complain the kids are not paying attention so the doctors say 4.4 million children in the USA aged 4 to 17 years have a ‘new disease’ called ADHD. To treat this ‘disease’ they stuff them to the gills with amphetamines and if their parents try to resist they are brought up on charges of ‘child abuse’ by the school.

            So we now have 16 percent of our boys diagnosed with a bad case of typical boy behavior, coupled with a sugar high, no real discipline and no outlet for all their physical energy.

            But look on the bright side. The drug companies are making money and when the kids go berserk shooting and stabbing others the bureaucrats have another excuse to ban guns.

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            gai

            A couple of years ago I talked to a guy at a flea market. He was selling off everything and moving to Thailand. His new wife is from there and he found it is a much much more businessman friendly country with few regulations or hassles.

            I hope he is doing well.

            Interesting that the go-getters are continuing to move west for better opportunities.

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          • #
            Originalsteve

            I agree…CAGW is a champage socialist “problem”….

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        • #
          Glenn999

          or how about if they really believed that climatechange/globalwarming was real, they would let it happen so that in the vast devastation the world’s population would be drastically reduced, and thus solving the problem caused by so many people needing so many resources and so much food and power etc.

          as long as there are sheep to lead the world’s elites will continue to grab up all the power they can.

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      Glen Michel

      But made them feel safe from the Boche.

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  • #
    Neville

    Meanwhile we have the latest Royal Society and NAS report telling us that ( point 20) if we stopped all human co2 emissions today we wouldn’t see a change in temp or co2 levels for thousands of years.
    https://royalsociety.org/policy/projects/climate-evidence-causes/question-20/ Yet darling Hillary and just about every other pollie around the globe are telling us we must take action on their CAGW. And they claim we’ve only got a few years left to save all our grand kids from a terrible fate etc, etc.
    BTW this report used the input of at least 2 IPCC authors and 5 lead authors. I think you’ll recognise many of the names.

    https://royalsociety.org/policy/projects/climate-evidence-causes/contributors/ Now to those who’ll tell me their conclusions are all so much BS I would just say I probably agree. But these people can’t have it both ways, we can either make zero difference or we can change things around in two generations and I presume change our climate back to the wonders of the LIA?

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      DavidH

      The Royal Society …
      Just today, I marked this in the book I’m reading:

      “In 1752 a committee was formed to decide thereafter which papers should be published. But the Society remained careful to dissociate itself from the personal views of Fellows and eschewed a party line. An ‘advertisement’ published in each volume thereafter stated firmly:

      It is an established rule of the Society, to which they will always adhere, never to give their opinion, as a body, upon any subject, either of Nature or Art, that comes before them.


      (Voyaging in strange seas – David Knight)

      Seems the rules have changed since then.

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        Graeme No.3

        DavidH:

        It was renewed around 1820 when the RS had degenerated into a social club for the wealthy.
        However J.J. Thompson (later Lord Kelvin) issued a statement in 1860 as President of the Royal Society. He was wrong in what he said (Earth only 100 million years old) but he set a precedent for future Presidents to issue erroneous statements based on authority not fact.

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        • #
          ianl8888

          Isaac Newton achieved that for the RS much earlier than Kelvin

          Newton was a genius, of course, but a distinctly unpleasant character. He bullied his way into becoming President of the RS and then ruthlessly used that office to hound his (imagined) plagiarist opponents (eg. Liebniz). In fct, when Leibniz dies, Newton publicly took pleasure in claiming to have helped hound the man to his death

          He was later appointed as Warden of the Royal Mint and revelled in hunting counterfeiters down. Indeed, with such vigour that he saw several of them off to dangle at the end of a stout rope

          None of this detracts from Principia Mathematica

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    • #
      TdeF

      This is science gibberish. For example.

      The Royal Society.

      If emissions of CO2 stopped altogether, it would take many thousands of years
      for atmospheric CO2 to return to ‘re industrial’ levels due to its very slow transfer
      to the deep ocean and ultimate burial in ocean sediments.

      The things that are ridiculously wrong

      Many thousands of years..Even the IPCC says 80 years half life for CO2 in the atmosphere. Only 50% of 150% is man made, so most gone in 200 years. In fact the half life is obviously 14 years, so most gone in 40 years.
      Slow transfer to the deep ocean.. No, this is a gas, not water. It behaves differently.
      ultimate burial in ocean sediments?.. No, who made this up? 98% of all CO2 is stored in the ocean by compression. At the huge pressures, CO2 is a liquid.

      Is anyone allowed write for the Royal Society?

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        TdeF

        No one else says that the CO2 will stay in the atmosphere for thousands of years. Why would the Royal Society do so? This novel idea that all CO2 is ultimately buried in the dirt at the bottom of the ocean is priceless. How that works is quite unexplained. I cannot reconcile the qualifications with this nonsense.

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        • #
          gai

          “…This novel idea that all CO2 is ultimately buried in the dirt at the bottom of the ocean is priceless. How that works is quite unexplained….”

          Actually Dr. Segalstad gives a very good technical explanation in the paper I just linked to.

          ….Carbon dioxide is an equally important requisite for life on Earth as oxygen. Plants need CO2 for their living (the photo synthesis), and humans and animals breath out CO2 from their respiration. In addition to this iogeochemical balance, there is also an important geochemical balance. CO2 in the atmosphere is in equilibrium with carbonic acid dissolved in the ocean, which in term is close to CaCO3 saturation and in equilibrium with carbonate shells of organisms and lime (calcium carbonate; limestone) in the ocean through the following reactions (where s indicates the solid state, aq is the aqueous state, and g is the gaseous state):

          Equations follow on page 4.

          Also on a long term basis the CO2 in limestone as calcium carbonate is subducted into the ocean trenches and eons later reappears as CO2 from volcanoes or is outgassed at midocean ridges . A better description is HERE but take with a grain of salt. (The usual bow to CAGW is made.)

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          • #
            TdeF

            Again not right and odd.

            “Plants need CO2 for their living (the photo synthesis)”

            Plants need CO2 not just to live, as we need oxygen. They are made from CO2 as are we. (the?) Photosynthesis is carbon capture. The end result is the plant. Carbohydrates are C(H2O), releasing the O2. At night, plants use O2, just like us.

            CO2 dissolved in water is carbonic acid or in equilibrium as some stays as gaseous CO2. At low pressure most is carbonic. Limestone however is not produced by some sort of equilibrium, it is amazingly the shell of living creatures in the food chain which starts with plankton and the C and Ca passes all the way through. It is not the dirt of the floor of the sea.

            Yes it is in equilibrium, but as all the seas as alkali, the limestone and the corals and the white cliffs of Dover are fine until the oceans turn acidic and dissolve them. However that will not happen for the very reason that they are massive. Even the pyramids are built from sea shells, ultimately. So are many of our old cities, like Odessa and big public buildings. You may even have marble at home. This is not like granite, stone, but a natural product. Limestone is not formed by equilibrium by by little creatures.

            As for having equations, fine. It makes nothing right. They are just there to impress people.

            The idea the CO2 comes out of volcanoes only because of limestone on the surface is ignoring the fact that Carbon is one of the 92 elements in a huge, hot planet. Carbon is the basis of ‘organic’ chemistry but forms compounds just like every other element. CO2 from a volcano is as common as SO2, sulphur dioxide and sulphur is not a big part of our ecosystem.

            So the author is Dr. Segalstad?

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            • #
              TdeF

              Dr. Tom Segalstad is a geologist and quite sensible. My sort of scientist, someone who wants proof.

              “Segalstad was one of the reviewers of the IPCC Third Assessment Report, acting as the Norwegian representative, but disagreed with the mainstream scientific view of global warming from the assessment.

              He believes that human-released carbon dioxide (CO2) won’t have a large effect on the Earth’s climate, claiming that it produces only a small percent of the greenhouse effect, and that most CO2 would be absorbed by the ocean through geological processes. After the results of the assessment were published, he resigned from the IPCC.”

              “He was one of 100 signatories of a letter directed to the Secretary-General of the United Nations Ban Ki-moon describing the perceived mistakes in how the IPCC report was made.”

              He is not right about the (short term) absorption of CO2 through (very slow) geological processes, but it is absorbed by the ocean and that is right. CO2 simply remains in solution as in a bottle of lemonade, 50x as much air as in the atmosphere itself. That is how fish breathe and how we breathe. We came from a gas filled ocean too and carry it with us, bags of salty water with huge wet lungs (40m2) to grab the O2 are return the CO2. No hard exoskeleton though, but bones. I suppose enough humans would form limestone. Near relatives might not be happy though.

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              • #
                gai

                TdeF,

                You might want to read the entire paper since I seemed to have confused you.

                Dr. Seglstad’s paper:
                http://www.co2web.info/ESEFVO1.pdf

                I have a degree in chemistry and several courses in geology. Nothing Dr. Seglstad says runs counter to what I have learned either from study or from hands on experiments.

                The ocean is alkali because it is buffered. It will never turn acid until all the limestone and dolomite dissolves.

                Do not forget rain water reacts with CO2 to form a weak acid. This acid dissolves limestone, marble and dolomite to form caves. The change in equilibrium between water, air and rock is evidenced by hollow caverns vs flowstone, stalactites and stalagmites.

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              • #
                TdeF

                Gai, the amount of liquid CO2 in the ocean is 5ml/litre at depth, 0.5% not the tiny 0.04% in the atmosphere. Given the water is 400x as much as the air in weight, it should not surprise anyone that the total gaseous CO2 in the water is 50x that in the ocean. So there is no need to talk of limestone. If all the CO2 in the air was suddenly in the water, the total amount of CO2 in the water would increase 2%.

                As for acid rain, rain is always acid but fresh water is only 2.5% of water and that is mainly the Great Lakes(20%), Baikal(20%) and Antartica, (60%) not the tiny rivers. So they do not count, nor the acid they bring.

                As a chemist you understand equilibrium and Henry’s law. You cannot unilaterally increase the concentration of an equilibrium gas on one side of a boundary. The relative concentrations are fixed, primarily by temperature. The only question when disturbing an equilibrium is the time to restore it. The idea that the man released CO2 would stay in the air for thousands of years, as stated in the Royal Society paper is just rubbish.

                Then the talk about limestone being actively involved is on a geological time scale of millions of years, not the 14 year half life of CO2 in the air. The amount of carbon in the planet is massive as the prevalence of atoms formed in the sun goes down as the weight goes up. So H, He, Li, Be, B, C, N, O, Fl Ne etc. For us the big ones are H, C, N and O. Apart from the metal Ca, we and shellfish are made from this stuff and almost entirely and only from this stuff. One of us becomes limestone.

                What geologists and other scientists who worked for the IPCC realised in time is that their opinions do not count. The final report is always a political one. In fact the whole IPCC was a political device and needed to self justify. So the moment it was formed, we had a disaster on our hands. Quelle surprise!

                The IPCC needs to be closed. 220,000 windmills later, the damage it has done to the planet is enormous. The we have to dispose of hundreds of millions of toxic solar cells.

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              gai

              ….The idea the CO2 comes out of volcanoes only because of limestone on the surface is ignoring the fact that Carbon is one of the 92 elements in a huge, hot planet. Carbon is the basis of ‘organic’ chemistry but forms compounds just like every other element. CO2 from a volcano is as common as SO2, sulphur dioxide and sulphur is not a big part of our ecosystem.

              I was responding to the Royal Society CO2 is buried at the bottom of the ocean and saying it does not stay there. Of course that is not all of the CO2 cycle which is why I then linked to the page for a fuller more complete explanation.

              So the author is Dr. Segalstad?

              Dr Segalstad was the author of the paper I quoted (2010). The hockyshtick had a more recent paper by another author who came to the same conclusion.

              (I like Dr Segalstad’s paper because I find it easy to understand.)

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              tom0mason

              From http://www.eoearth.org/view/article/154254/

              Limestone is a sedimentary rock whose chief mineral component is calcite (calcium carbonate: CaCO3). Limestone can be formed by precipitation of calcite dissolved in water or by depostion of marine organisms and entrainment of secondary minerals. Approximately 80 to 90% of limestone composition are skeletal fragments of marine organisms such as coral or foraminifera.

              and

              Limestone strata can be found in virtually every world region, except for the deeper ocean realms. Because of the unique soil mineral and pH characteristics, limestone formations are often associated with high levels of species endemism. These outcomes as well as dramatic karst landscapes are seen in such diverse regions as the Burren in western Ireland; the island of Oland, Sweden; the northwest coast of Madagascar along the Indian Ocean;[4] and Mayan regions of Mexico and Central America.

              Now consider there are vast volumes of limestone worldwide, and sometime in the earth’s history all that calcium and CO2 was not being processed by sealife. I wonder were it was back then, before living creatures decided to use these chemicals — more CO2 in the atmosphere perhaps?

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              • #
                TdeF

                You have to consider that CO2 was the only gas in the atmosphere plus Nitrogen. Perhaps 22% CO2?

                Oxygen is very reactive. So the first life was based on CO2. Phytoplankton and then plants. Only when there was free oxygen, a byproduct of the consumption of CO2 did CO2 go down and the first animals appear, able to live like plants at night on the O2 alone. No photosynthesis.

                Now the hungry plants have eaten the lot, or almost everything. In fact if CO2 went lower than 0.02%, it seems most life on earth would die, plants first.

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              • #
                TdeF

                It seems Vitamin A was a very early agent of photosynthesis. It is possible that it evolved as organism learned how to harvest the sun’s energy in to carbohydrates and O2. The whole evolution of cells and DNA followed and the powerhouse was the energy stored in the O2 so you did not need the sun.

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        gai

        Paper finds lifetime of CO2 in atmosphere is only 5.4 years

        “The paper corroborates prior work by Salby, Humlum et al, Frölicher et al, Cho et al, Calder et al, Francey etl, Ahlbeck, Pettersson, Spencer, Segalstad, and others which has demonstrated that man-made CO2 is not the primary driver of atmospheric CO2.”

        Also see Dr. Seglstad’s paper:
        http://www.co2web.info/ESEFVO1.pdf
        Section 4. Chemical laws for distribution of CO2 in nature
        starting on page three.

        December 1995

        ….The calculations show how the IPCC’s (Houghton et al., 1990) atmospheric CO2 lifetime of 50-200 years only accounts for half the mass of atmospheric CO2. However, the unique result fits an atmospheric CO2 lifetime of -5 (5.4) years, in agreement with numerous 14C studies compiled by Sundquist (1985) and chemical kinetics (Stumm & Morgan, 1970). The mass of all past fossil-fuel and biogenic emissions remaining in the current atmosphere was in December 1988 calculated to be -30 GT C or less, i.e. maximum -4%, corresponding to an atmospheric CO2 oncentration of -14 ppmv.

        This small amount of anthropogenic atmospheric CO2 probably contributes less than half a Watt/m2 of the 146 W/m2 “Greenhouse Effect” of a cloudless atmosphere, contributing to less than half a degree C of radiative heating of the lower atmosphere. The implication of the -5 year lifetime is that -135 GT C (-18%) of the atmospheric CO2 pool is exchanged each year. This is far more than the -6 GT C in fossil fuel CO2 now contributed annually to the atmosphere.

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          TdeF

          Yes, they are right except the half life is exactly 14 years. We know this exactly from the atom bomb graph when mankind double C14 in the air in a pulse in 1965. The fit is exact.

          However the IPCC claim 80 years. The IPCC need to do this or the rapid exchange with the oceans means most fossil fuel CO2 just vanishes and there is no problem! This cannot be admitted.

          Despite man’s arrogance, his output is trivial. The arrogance however means people accept the proposition that increasing CO2 comes from car’s exhausts. The ignorance is that no one much understands equilibrium, as they need to study chemistry where it is the founding concept after stoichiometry (adding atoms)

          So people are prepared to believe that we few humans are able to change the planet’s huge chemistry set with our tiny cars and planes and power stations. That is a popular fallacy aided by rogue faux scientists like our Tim Flannery and Al Gore who impress us with their compassion and sincerity and clear concern for humanity. For them and millions of others, it is a very profitable dreamland.

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      • #
        Rereke Whakaaro

        Is anyone allowed write for the Royal Society?

        I understand that there is a rigidly and rigourously enforced standard that must be met by anyone wishing to publish in a Royal Society journal:

        1. They have to be able to spell their name, without putting their tongue into the corner of their mouth.

        4. They have to be sufficiently numerate to be able to count to ten, without missing or confusing any numbers in the sequence.

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    pat

    30 July: RTCC: Ed King: EU mulls climate finance package ahead of Paris summit
    Luxembourg presidency proposes ‘toolbox’ to showcase funding amid fears cash drought could poison UN talks
    A background paper published by Luxembourg, current holders of the rotating EU Council presidency, stresses this will be one of the “crucial elements for the success of the process”.
    It proposes developing what it terms a “toolbox” which would outline how national development aid, green bonds and climate investment funds are being used to bolster climate finance flows.
    The paper emphasises the need for a “credible financial offer”. That would explain how developed countries intend to meet a 2009 promise to mobilise $100 billion a year to help poorer states green their economies and deal with weather extremes.
    Emissions trading, carbon pricing and funds to develop enabling legal and regulatory environments could also form part of a package…
    “Innovative and effective ways to meet the substantial financial needs that such a transition requires, are yet to be defined,” it says…
    Teresa Ribera, head of the Paris IDDRI thinktank, told RTCC a plan was vital to ensure the issue did not “poison or hijack” the talks…
    http://www.rtcc.org/2015/07/30/eu-mulls-climate-finance-package-ahead-of-paris-summit/

    pdf: 5 pages: Informal Meeting of Environment Ministers
    Background paper – Session II
    Defining a Climate Finance Toolbox for Effective Climate Action
    22-23 July 2015, Luxembourg
    In this respect, the sheer number of existing finance mechanisms (over 50 multilateral funds, some 60 carbon markets and dozens of climate investment funds globally) calls in itself for serious efforts in coordination, ownership and accountability. The extent of the challenge
    becomes apparent in comparing recent global figures spent on climate finance – 331 billion dollars in 2014 – to the estimated 5 trillion dollars additional investment needed we need, could include government grants to risk mitigating guarantees and insurance schemes, green bonds and climate investment funds to impact investment. Financial flows from public sources could be used to provide enabling legal and regulatory environments and to leverage increased private sector funding. Public interventions must aim at crowding in private sector investment and not crowding it out. It will take project financing as well as investments to seize the economic opportunities that lie in the transition from fossil fueled economies to low carbon and climate friendly modes of production and lifestyles. Putting a credible price on carbon emissions – i.a. through effective emissions trading systems – would of course be very helpful in that respect…

    On this background, it is encouraging to observe the growth of socially responsible investment and impact investing, combining reasonable financial return with well documented social and/or environmental impact to the benefit of individuals and their communities…
    Determined action on both fronts should help to reduce the complexity of the transition processes from fossil fueled economies towards safer, low carbon, circular economies…

    In 2009 developed countries committed to mobilize jointly 100 billion dollars per year by 2020 to address the needs of developing countries for climate action. This amount is to come from a wide variety of sources: public and private, bilateral and multilateral, including alternative sources of finance. A significant portion of this amount should flow through the Green Climate Fund (GCF). Other relevant funds of the UNFCCC process include: the Special Climate Change Fund (SCCF) and the Least Developed Countries Fund (LDCF), the Adaptation Fund (AF), and the
    Global Environment Facility (GEF). With regard to the newly established GCF, so far out of a total of 10.2 billion dollars in committed contributions, EU member states have pledged 4.75 billion dollars…

    It is also their declared intention to increase by up to 400 million the number of people in the most vulnerable developing countries who have access to direct or indirect insurance coverage against the negative impact of climate change related hazards by 2020 and support the development of early warning systems in the most vulnerable countries.
    Furthermore G7 members aim at accelerating access to renewable energy in Africa and developing countries in other regions with a view to reducing energy poverty through mobilizing substantial financial resources from private investors, development finance
    institutions and multilateral development banks…

    Questions for discussion
    1. In order to draw a credible pathway to mobilize 100 billion dollars on a yearly basis by 2020 for the support for adaptation and mitigation activities in developing countries, the following questions need to be answered:
    a. What type of incentives and financial instruments are needed to leverage indispensable private sector money with limited amounts of public funding?
    b. What kind of methodology can be applied to credibly account for private sector funding that is genuinely targeted at effective climate change… action?
    http://g8fip1kplyr33r3krz5b97d1.wpengine.netdna-cdn.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/07/Background_ClimateFinance.pdf

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  • #
    ROM

    The entire global warming / climate change industry is built on economic and scientific quicksand.

    There NO identifiable vestiges or any identifiable signs of any sort that can be described as indicators of a truly productive sector that is geared towards increasing the productivity of the global nations and contributing to the increase in the real wealth of those nations.

    The entire climate change industry is entirely and completely based on highly dubious perceptions maintained by vast reams of lying propaganda generated to maintain the flow of funds to the climate change industry through the use of fear and totally corrupted, disassembling climate science with its unaccountable adjustments made by unverified algorithms which are kept secret, its homogenisation.
    It relies almost entirely on its continuing highly dubious and unproven claims of rapid warming using not observations but whole phalanxes of unverified, unvalidated, unproven climate models that can’t even predict the onset of the ENSO, the ENSO being the single largest climate affecting natural seasonal phenomena on this planet, or its phase more than a couple of months ahead.
    Despite this abject failure of the climate models to make any valid predictions their outputs and predictions in some scientific and environmental quarters are placed alongside the equivalent of the Ancient world’s Oracle of Delphi’s importance in our world of today with about the same amount of verisimilitude as well

    It nothing more than totally parasitical industry entirely reliant on all other productive industries for its income and its excuse to exist, a completely parasitical industry that is totally reliant on the continuation of a mirage, a chimera that can only exist in a scientific vacuum where there is no science and no scientific papers at any level that directly shows and proves that the planet is warming outside of the longer term natural variations and shows and proves that humanity is directly the cause of that so far unproven as human induced, warming.

    If there was just one single peer reviewed paper that could actually offer direct and completely verifiable proof that any warming we are seeing is entirely
    un-natural and that warming was directly the outcome of mankind’s activities and his use of fossil fuels, it would be a little like Einstein’s papers in 1905 , the year of Einstein’s annus mirabilis.
    It would be quoted and used in every situation and would be regarded as a classic reference paper to be used by all of mankind as the basis for all climate research far into the future.

    No such defining climate paper exists nor is it likely that it will ever exist as more and more science points to an ever decreasing role of mankind from what was originally promoted as a major role by mankind with great public flourishing of dubious scientific credentials by the claimants of climate science expertise on mankind’s role in the warming trends of the global climate.

    For such an industry built entirely on the quicksands of unproven, highly dubious propaganda tailored climate science, the future to say the least, is likely to be a catastrophic collapse of the entire sector when a critical point is reached in the interlinking and rapidly increasing complexity of the climate change industry.

    The options for the still unknown source of that critical point are expanding rapidly.
    One such potential example is the news on the GWPF forum site that Germany’s very large steel making industry is considering closing down Germany’s steel making manufacturing and relocating to another more hospitable nation such as the USA where energy costs are only a fraction of German energy costs due to and arising from the dictatorial EU mandates on reducing “Carbon” [ ??? ] emissions and increasing energy costs to force the populace to reduce energy use.

    One German steel corporation has already started shifting its operations to the USA.

    Closing Germany’s steel operations leaves the prestigious German car manufacturing industry in a very vulnerable position as the steel for vehicle manufacturing is highly specialised and requires a lot of co-operation between steel producers and manufacturers to get the qualities of steel required as well as the specialised treatment of steel for maximum manufacturing and economic  efficiencies in the vehicle building industries
    And thats just one industry and a small part of the flow ons from German steel manufacturers vacating Europe for cheaper and less bureaucratically arduous nations .

    We can see in this a scenario for major backlash against the dictates of the EU and against European politicians who have imposed on their peoples and who have created most of the climate change industry as the work force starts seeing jobs starting to dry up and industries closing down.
    They will begin to demand that they have jobs and employment and security for themselves and the hell with the climate change industry and the greedy leeches who infest it and who are benefitting from the climate change industry at everybody else’s expense and jobs prospects.

    And when one European Nation, in this case the largest and most influential and important nation, Germany possibly goes it is almost invariable that others in the same type of situation where their entire future is threatened by the outcomes arising from the activities and economic strictures and demands of the climate change industry will also revolt and then a major European backlash against the entire climate change industry could be on the cards.

    As western Europe and the EU is the very hub of the climate change faith, it will become obvious for politicians elsewhere that if they value their future in their nation they had better get rid of the lecherous, leech like, parasitical climate change industry and fast.

    Thats only a scenario but an increasingly likely one that something similar starting with an apparently very minor trigger of some sort could precipitate the total and very rapid collapse of the entire shoddy construct of the global warming industry which is built on the quicksands of a complete lack of any productive and useful attributes to society and is basically entirely parasitical and leech like in its format, its economics and in its operations.

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    • #
      Dariusz

      The Morgenthau Plan 70 years later but this time self inflicted by Germans.
      The original plan quoting David Irving,s ” would have led to the death by starvation and pestilence of ten million Germans in the first two years after the war, in addition to the one million who had been killed in the saturation bombing and the three million killed in the enforced expulsion from Germany’s eastern territories”.
      Instead the Marshall plan was introduced, kicked start Western Europe and provided strong West Germany against the scourge of communism. Now I wonder if the removal of this constant fear from the east was not a mistake?
      Humanity just can,t be happy unless it is scared s…less .

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    • #
      Konrad

      ”very minor trigger of some sort…”

      ROM,
      I believe you are correct. Just government “discussion” of the Australian RET caused a stunning 87% collapse in Big Wind “investment” in Australia.

      Some sceptics are despondent thinking “it’s too big to fail”, but those most dedicated to promoting the hoax are not necessarily the profiteers, but the pseudo scientists, activists, journalists and politicians who fear the consequences of losing the first major information war in the age of the Internet.

      Capital will just find somewhere else to be, but those with their reputation on the line are trapped by the permanent record of the internet. This is why the left hand drive crash test dummies on the political blogs are testing every “well we may have been wrong about CO2 causing warming, but…” exit strategies. Sadly, the “global warming is caused by CO2” propaganda is solidly entrenched. The claims are locked in, changing the claims doesn’t work when every citizen can tap a keyboard or click a mouse and instantly check if “We’ve always been at war with Eastasia”. Even concerted attempts to replace “global warming” with “climate change” or “extreme weather” largely failed, even with the full support of the lame scream meeja.

      We live in interesting times. We have never experienced any comparable political / propaganda situation like this. The widely accepted claim that adding radiative gases to our radiatively cooled atmosphere will reduce its ability to cool the solar heated surface of our planet is entirely false. Not a little bit wrong, completely and utterly wrong. Ultimately for the warmulonians, this is un-winnable. While old media and and the professional left fight on, most now praying for a soft landing, their fight is pointless. They are achieving nothing but adding to the crushing shame they hope to avoid. The majority of citizens are now sceptic and this is in spite of all of the efforts of activist NGOs, almost all of old media and governments pushing the propaganda.

      In the age of the Internet, it doesn’t matter how loud your megaphone is or how much astroturf you lay if you are not armed with the truth. The big lie can make it around the world even faster than before, but now the truth gets its boots on in moments. And they are hobnail boots with steel toecaps, because private citizens are not beholden to the rules of the incestuous relationship between old media, activists and politicians. The game has changed.

      The coming “kick the can down the road” decision at Paris could well be the trigger point. The point at which the fellow travellers lose all hope of sustaining the big lie or even transmuting it into a face saving new cause.

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      • #
        Rereke Whakaaro

        Some sceptics are despondent thinking “it’s too big to fail”

        Not me. I have spent my whole career trying to figure out what threats are real, and what threats are wind.

        When you do that, for long enough, a number of interesting things happen (apart from practitioners becoming a bit odd), one of which, is developing the ability to visualise threats as having a shape. Or in the case of some of my colleagues, a smell, or a sound.

        If a threats is natural, the shape appears, to be irregular, and messy, at least to me. If it is not natural, it has a regular shape, because people creating a threat, cannot do messy.

        From my perspective, Climate Change has the shape of a pyramid, – it is very organised – and what is more, it is a pyramid that is balanced on an apex.

        Effort is therefore constantly required by the organising forces, just to keep it reasonably stable.

        The questions then, are not if it will fail; but how and when it will fail, and how messy it will become, when it does fail?

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        • #
          gai

          Thanks for that.

          After twenty years the fight is getting rather old but I see that you are correct. They are getting increasingly desperate and thus making mistakes.

          1. Realist articles no longer allowed in the MSM

          2. Censorship in MSM comments and at paid for warmist sites like SkS. (With readership falling drastically.)

          3. Demonizing and name calling of Realists, especially by political figures and scientists.

          4. Publicly firing or going after realist scientists.

          5. Connecting everything and anything to CAGW no matter how far the stretch.

          6. Floating excuse after excuse after excuse to explain the hiatus instead of coming up with one decent excuse and sticking with it.

          7. Christiana Figueres openly calling for a communist type government like China’s because it is the best for dealing with CAGW.

          8. Senator Tim Wirth, who organized the 1988 Senate hearing at which James Hansen addressed global warming, bragging on PBS about how they scammed Congress.

          9. Roping in the Pope and here in the USA trying to rope in all churches to push support for CAGW (They could lose protected tax status for getting involved in politics.)

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          • #
            TdeF

            Good. Pope on a rope?

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            • #
              Rereke Whakaaro

              I will not ask what it smells like. You might tell me, and I really do not want to know.

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          • #
            ianl8888

            No. 7 caused some very minor and transitory damage, and was easily repaired by simply no further MSM publishing or commenting

            The remainder are still going strong and believed by over 50% of the Western populaces

            20

  • #
    Manfred

    Maintaining the illusion that humankind can control the weather (and climate) is peddled by ideologically motivated eco-marxist bureaucracies. The expenditure and social incarceration can increase infinitely because the objective is not only unstated but the means unknown and the outcome an impossibility.

    Be very confident that there will soon be a vicious political recoil as sanity finally intervenes and ‘can’ becomes globally recognised as ‘won’t’.

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    Using Renewable Energy Industry data sources, by 2014 European Union countries had invested approximately €1 trillion in large scale Renewable Energy installations. This may well be an underestimate.

    This has provided a nameplate electrical generating capacity of about 216 Gigawatts, nominally about ~22% of the total European generation needs of about 1000 Gigawatts.

    The actual measured output by 2014 has been 38 Gigawatts or 3.8% of Europe’s electricity requirement, at a capacity factor of ~18% overall.

    However Renewable Energy production is dependent on the seasons, local weather conditions and the rotation of the earth, day and night.

    So the Renewable Energy contribution to the electricity supply grid is inevitably erratic, intermittent and non-dispatchable. It is therefore much less useful than dispatchable sources of electricity, which can be engaged whenever necessary to match demand and maintain grid stability. That 3.8% Renewable Energy contribution to the grid is often not available when needed and obversely its mandatory use can cause major grid disruption if the Renewable Energy contribution is suddenly over abundant.

    Accounting for capacity factors the capital cost of these Renewable Energy installations has been about €29billion / Gigawatt. That capital cost should be compared with conventional gas-fired electricity generation costing about €1billion / Gigawatt.

    The whole 1000 Gigawatt fleet of European electricity generation installations could have been replaced with lower capital cost Gas-fired installations for the €1trillion of capital costs already expended on Renewable Energy in Europe.

    When the capacity percentages are taken into account, the capital costs can be 14 – 49 times greater than Gas Fired plant. And in spite of their being virtually no costs for fuel, Renewable Energy installations can still cost up to 1.5 – 2.5 times as much to operate and maintain as conventional Gas Fired plant.

    By Government and EU diktat, these costs have been extracted by extra charges imposed on utility bills throughout Europe. This is a very regressive form of taxation imposing more burdens on poorer people whilst leaving wealthier people who are able to pay less affected. It is also invisible in Government balance sheet as an industry imposition on consumers.

    Increased energy costs are also impacting on European industries with many major corporations seeking more congenial manufacturing locations outside Europe to the detriment of the European economies. These regressive “Green taxes” have already lead to significant fuel poverty throughout Europe.

    It is questionable whether the Renewable Energy industry, when viewed “from cradle to grave”, including material sourcing, manufacturing, installation, connection and demolition, does in fact reduce CO2 emissions to any worthwhile extent. The CO2 saved may never exceed the CO2 emissions generated to erect the total installation, and at a maximum the use of Renewable technologies only amounts to about a 4% saving in CO2 emissions,

    The USA has made significant CO2 emissions reductions over the past few decades by replacing Coal Fired generation with Gas Fired electricity generation with the feedstock provided by the fracking revolution. It is estimated that using natural gas for electricity generation as opposed coal burning saves about 30% of CO2 emissions. This effect in the USA alone has been assessed to have been more effective means of CO2 emissions reduction than all actions worldwide arising from the Kyoto protocol.

    The Renewable Energy industry could not exist without the Government mandated subsidies and preferential tariffs on which it depends. It is not a viable business proposition

    Viewed from the point of view of the viability of the nation’s electrical grid, Renewable Energy would never be part of the generating mix without its Government mandate and Government market interference.

    https://edmhdotme.wordpress.com/european-renewable-energy-costs-and-performance-2014/

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      tom0mason

      edmh

      “European Union countries had invested approximately €1 trillion in large scale Renewable Energy installations. This may well be an underestimate.”
      In reality these [non-]renewables* have little real value (a net worth), maybe a few €thousand in scrap value.
      Also as the maintenance hazard expense & reliability issues start to kick-in, even this low value will plummet to negative values, probably just in time for them to be declared ‘too big to fail’ and saved by yet more government funds. :(

      * So called renewables are no such thing as they can not generate enough power for their own manufacture. Therefore if all power was from ‘renewable’ they would soon cease to exist, they are truly non-renewable.

      8O

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  • #
    mikerestin

    As such, it’s the only major industry in the world dependent on consumer and voter ignorance.

    The next closest one was the Pet Rock.
    Pretty much the same benefits.

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  • #

    You are a voice of reason amid the voices of panic. Thank you.

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  • #
    tom0mason

    Jo, the ‘know nothing political thunkers’ and charatans would like everyone to use their new dictionary of terms but could we at least stop using them here. Or maybe show a more accurate alteration.

    My suggestion for your first line …

    "Climate Change Business Journal estimates the [Manmade]Climate Change Industry is a $1.5 Trillion dollar escapade, which means four billion dollars a day is spent on our quest to change the climate. That includes everything from carbon[dioxide] markets to carbon[dioxide] consulting, carbon[dioxide] sequestration, [non-]renewables, [manmade] biofuels, green buildings and insipid cars."

    I do feel that if we continuously use the warmist language some see these as correct English usage, and because of their mis-discriptional allusion tend to fall for the warmists illogical arguments.

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    • #
      Rereke Whakaaro

      That is a good point Tomo.

      I especially like the imagery of [manmade] biofuels. If they are not manmade, then you are cooking with animal dung. Would you like fries with that?

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    Gary in Erko

    Most industries this size exist because they produce something the market wants.

    The market does want the $1.5 Trillion Climate Change Industry. We like our scary movies. Climate (the hidden boogy man among us) is more scary than Jaws, acres more scarier than Nightmare on Elm Street. But we have a way out – we can put our hopes of being saved on the World Government (click it for fun), according to a Professor of International Politics at University of Western Australia. What is it about that place.

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  • #

    Jo, Are you sure that is $1.5 trillion / year? The number I carry in my head is $1.5 trillion total since this began. Could be wrong though. E

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  • #
    Mark Fraser

    Well, now, we have a quantum leap with the climate change industry. Many times worse hype and fear-mongering than, say, Y2K, coupled with many ties higher risk and economic threats than the derivatives fiasco. The beneficiaries ? The “consultants” (KPMG, for example), the skimmers (all those commissions), the rent-seekers (academia) and the “investors” (read “subsidy-suckers”). And widespread religious fervor to sell it!
    To say nothing of the pols involved.

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    • #
      Rereke Whakaaro

      Y2K was the promotional trailer. Didn’t you get the memo, that said it was only a drill?

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      • #
        Gary in Erko

        It’s due to the magic of years with a few zeros. The modern world wants a non-religious apocalypse to puts Revelations to shame, to prove scientism dominates everything. Y2K with its three zeros was a dud. But no matter, come back next century in 2100 when a vaguely estimated weather report predicts a bad hair day.

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      • #
        Another Ian

        RW

        Don’t forget “Desertification”

        And read “Desertification: exploding the myth” by D.S.G Thomas and N.J. Middleton (1994)

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    gai

    This is beginning to look a lot like the Roaring Twenties followed by the Great Depression.

    Inflate the bubble, you and your buddies get out fast and then insert pin. Move in afterwards and pick up assets at pennies on the dollar.

    Only this time the plans are a bit more complicated.

    The political goal is clearly stated by Pascal Lamy. Who is Lamy? He is a French Socialist trained as an economist. Lamy was two term Director-General of the World Trade Organization (WTO) and Chief of Staff for the President of the European Commission. Ex-EU President Jacques Delors is now floating him as a candidate for the next EU president.

    So what does Lamy say?

    …The reality is that, so far, we have largely failed to articulate a clear and compelling vision of why a new global order matters — and where the world should be headed. Half a century ago, those who designed the post-war system — the United Nations, the Bretton Woods system, the General Agreement on Tariffs and Trade (GATT) — were deeply influenced by the shared lessons of history.

    All had lived through the chaos of the 1930s — when turning inwards led to economic depression, nationalism and war. All, including the defeated powers, agreed that the road to peace lay with building a new international order — and an approach to international relations that questioned the Westphalian, sacrosanct principle of sovereignty….
    http://www.theglobalist.com/pascal-lamy-whither-globalization/

    In other words a world government where sovereign nations become vassal states.

    And the template for that new international order has had it’s trial run:

    What can the world learn about global governance from the diplomatic model of the European Union?
    … there is a place on earth where new forms of global governance have been tried following World War II — in Europe.

    It was more than half a century ago that the Frenchman Jean Monet, one of the shapers of post-war Europe, said, “The sovereign nations of the past can no longer provide a framework for the resolution of our present problems. And the European Community itself is no more than a step towards the organizational forms of tomorrow’s world.” His assessment was as valid then as it is now….

    So a world government based on the EU is the goal stated. And just incase you think your country will remain sovereign.

    …First, on the question of efficiency, Europe scores in my view rather highly. Thanks to the primacy of EU law over national law. Thanks to the work of the European Court of Justice in ensuring enforcement and respect for the rule of law. And thanks to a clear articulation between the Commission, the Parliament, and the European Court of Justice. It also scores highly from the point of view of redistribution policies….

    if we look at the issue of leadership. Europe has had a relatively good record in terms of leadership as long as the leadership of the Commission was accepted. [And this is the really big stumbling block for our would be masters. It is THE reason for CAGW.] It is the Commission who pushed through the creation of the internal market in the early 1990s and of the euro in the late 1990s, two key successes of the European construction project. But today, leadership is blurred by the competition between the Commission and the European Council….

    Finally, legitimacy is the area in which, in my view, Europe scores less well. We are witnessing a growing distance between European public opinions and the European project. One could have expected that the European institutional set up, with growing powers entrusted to the European Parliament would have resulted in greater legitimacy. But this is contradicted by the declining numbers participating in elections to the European Parliament. Europe continues to be seen as distant, far away from the everyday lives and concerns of citizens…..

    What does Lamy see as the challenges that must be over come before a world government can be put in place and accepted?

    …I see four main challenges for global governance today.

    The first one is leadership, i.e. the capacity to embody a vision and inspire action, in order to create momentum….

    The second one is efficiency, i.e. the capacity to mobilize resources, to solve the problems in the international sphere, to bring about concrete and visible results for the benefit of the people. The main challenge here is that the Westphalian order [national sovereignty] gives a premium to “naysayers” who can block decisions, thereby impeding results. [national sovereignty] The ensuing viscosity of international decision-making puts into question the efficiency of the international system.

    The third one is coherence, for the international system is based on specialization. Each international organization focuses on a limited number of issues…. It is a fact: the UN is not really overarching, assuming this was the initial intention.

    The last challenge that I see is that of legitimacy — for legitimacy is intrinsically linked to proximity, to a sense of “togetherness”. By togetherness, I mean the shared feeling of belonging to a community.

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    • #

      Is this better than no government? You alone are your only defense. Learn to observe, shut up, threaten no one, do not telegraph thought, practice-practice-practice, until you can shoot fast, shoot straight. Then more practice, learning to not shoot if anything else is available!

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      ROM

      Gai @ # 22

      Interesting that you also should draw parallels between the global warming / climate change ideology of today and the situation in the 1920′s , the Roaring Twenties when money flowed like water and the world kicked up its heels and the underclasses suffered extreme deprivations as the wealthy got wealthier and wealthier.
      I also have been thinking of late of the parallels of today with the Roaring Twenties and the economic and social situation of today.
      Prohibition was the Big item and the “Cause” of the first quarter of a 20th century and was brought in by a number of countries beginning in the early 20th century and cumulating in the American Prohibition of Alchohol from 1920 to 1933.

      Just like today’s CAGW ideology, Prohibition was going to save mankind from his own disastrous attachment to a major flaw of his own making, in this case his attachment to alcohol.
      Just like today re the CAGW ideology, there grew up an entire industry centred around Prohibition in all the countries that introduced it from about 1900 onwards.
      Just like today it created a whole army of scammers and parasites preying on and exploiting the public.
      Just like today it created a net work of what quickly developed into a whole raft of major criminal organisations, similar in construct to what we are seeing with the criminal infestation of the vaunted and utterly useless “Carbon credits” [ another almost unbelievably deliberate false and completely misleading description ] and their selling of unidentifiable parcels of hot air from unknown sources and from unknown locations to suckers who can’t think for themselves and are easily separated from their money.

      Like global warming and its indulgences of “carbon credits” that will save the individual from being burned up in the hell fires of computer generated global warming, Prohibition was the cure to end all cures on alcohol consumption leading to a near perfect society according to the promoters of Prohibition.

      And then after a whole series of steadily deteriorating economic news and indicators over the last few years of the 1920′s came Black Thursday Oct 24th 1929 when Wall street crashed by 11% and the bitter fruits of the Great Depression of the 1930′s was to become the norm for millions of ordinary citizens who had believed that the good times were here to stay and they could play and play and play.

      And then some 70 to 100 million lives destroyed by a global war that was created and brought on by the total failure of the utterly corrupt political and banking classes to both prevent the Great Depression and the human suffering that was the outcome of the Great Depression.

      To top the disaster of the Great Depression off, just as a recovery began, the rise of the what in modern history was a grouping of the most evil dictators mankind has seen for centuries, used the rise of the unbounded evils of extremists of every political colour to consolidate their power and begin the global war that cost an estimated 70 to 100 million humans their lives.

      It was the political and racial extremism that arose from the suffering of the Great depression that was taken over and used in all its most evil hate filled ways by that handful of Dictators who were at the very source and heart of that terrible global war.

      [ The Japanese were arguably considerably worse in regards to extreme racism then the Germans who were fairly specific in their racial hate whereas the Imperial Japanese were entirely indiscriminate as they were a vastly superior race and therefore morally had a right to rule over and impose their will with the sword and the gun of the Shinto Emperor on those other sub human races, so they were taught and believed. ]

      With billions running now into trillions being directed into totally futile and uneconomic and destructive actions and policies surrounding the global warming faith and ideology , the “Cause”, a near repeat of the Prohibition era is being played out.

      Economically due in part to the massive divergence of limited resources to the utter futility that is called Decarbonisation , there are increasing indicators of economic malaise beginning to be seen in many advanced nations of the world, an economic malaise that like the Roaring Twenties enormous and no longer payable debts are being built up by nations, corporations, groups and individuals

      Like the 1930′s when there were a whole series of minor wars, minor from the European standpoint, major and disastrous from the standpoint of the peoples who were the objects of the European invasions and pogroms.

      There was the Spanish civil war which like all civil wars was little more than a deadly killing field of brother against brother, father against son and a war that the dictators practiced with and developed their war time killing machines.

      Today there are civil wars in the Ukraine and right throughout the Middle East and parts of Africa and elsewhere with a strong chance of those wars expanding further.

      And the seeds for the worst type of war of the lot where there is no mercy and no quarter given , a religion based war might be too close for any complacency.

      As each major war is very different to the last major war we might even be already in the preliminaries of the next major global conflict.

      I was born in mid 1938.
      As I got older I could see the harsh marks and deep hurts and the despair the Great Depression had marked those who had lived through those terrible times for the rest of their lives along with the horrors of the following WW2, including my parents.

      Nobody can predict the future and therefore I will be wrong.
      I just hope I am very wrong!

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        Another Ian

        ROM

        And think back to when there was a plethora of cars available with more than eight cylinders?

        I’m a bit later than you but was raised in a real recycling mode – don’t throw it away and work out how to re-use it.

        Haven’t got his ingrained in our offspring other than the rudiments but if need really hits they’ll likely cope.

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          Another Ian

          And forgot to add

          “Neat and tidy” the downfall of material for rural recycling.

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            ROM

            Spot on Another Ian;

            In about 1936 before my parents were married my Father made tea for 18 swagmen one saturday morning. They came off the road to try and beg some food or some tea
            They were victims of the Depression who walked the roads looking for work and often just food. 
            The old man did not have any food left in the house so he made a bottle of tea for each of them through that saturday morning ,
            He had to pull the beer bottles from the no longer existent former garden borders, beer bottles often being “recycled” in those days as garden borders, wash the bottles out and make that tea.
            The depression swaggies had a whole series of signals such as a small white stone on top of a post to pass along the message to those who were yet to come that this place was run by somebody who always tried to help and give you something, food and or a drink or a bottle of tea or if you were very lucky, some work for which you would get food and drink and somewhere and something approaching a bed to sleep in for a few days or weeks and maybe a small amount of money.
            Unemployment during the worst years of the Depression era here in Australia ran at roughly 30 % plus.

            I don’t know what the signal for an a****ole was but they had the signs and signals to cover most situations
            ———–
            Adaptability to a whole range of circumstances and conditions is the single biggest hallmark of our species as is evidenced by our ability, unlike and lacking in every other species, to permanently colonise just about every single climatic and geographical location on Earth except for Antarctica.

            Adaptability along with our Homo sapien species uniqueness in being the ONLY species that quite deliberately CONTROLS and uses energy has ensured that at this stage we are the alpha species on this planet.

            Viruses and bacteria being about the only other species on this planet at present that could do us in.

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    Ruairi

    By pretending the climate too hot,
    The warmists would take all you’ve got,
    Then claim it needs cooling,
    And we know they’re not fooling,
    With trillions for them in their pot.

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    hubris, arrogance, conceit, haughtiness, hauteur, pride, self-importance, egotism, pomposity, superciliousness, superiority;

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      gai

      Hansen? Al Gore? Pachauri? Tim Flannery? Lewandowsky? Cook?….

      I pick all of the above as a descriptor.

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    pat

    hottest year ever!

    29 July: UK Mirror: Alistair Grant: UK weather: Scandinavian blast brings frost tonight as temperatures plunge to 2C
    The surprise cold weather has left some areas of the UK – including Edinburgh – suffering the coldest July in 75 years…
    Scandinavian blast is due to bring frost and low temperatures to the UK tonight – while Scotland’s Highlands are even predicted snow…
    Cairngorm mountain spokesman Ross Coulter said: “It’s a surprise for summer visitors. Sleet was falling on the top this morning and it was just 6C in the visitors’ car park. It’s certainly cold for the time of year.”
    The Met Office forecast 2C lows in Scotland this morning and in England – threatening even the South with frost…
    Met Office forecaster Nicola Maxey said: “Temperatures have been below average for many.
    Channel 4 weatherman Liam Dutton said: “Frost in the countryside – phew! Impressive for July.”
    Temperatures have come close to July’s record lowest of 12.5C in central England in 1920, Met Office records show.
    Edinburgh has had its coldest July day for 75 years…
    http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/uk-weather-scandinavian-blast-brings-6159326

    31 July: ITV: Confirmed! July 2015 weather was officially dreadful
    by Ruth Wignall, Weather Presenter, Cymru Wales
    And then, as if all of that wasn’t enough, last night Sennybridge in Powys was the coldest place in the UK with an overnight temperature of 0.9c…That is very cold indeed for the summer!
    http://www.itv.com/news/wales/2015-07-31/confirmed-july-2015-weather-was-officially-dreadful/

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      tom0mason

      Surely that’s a normal British summer Pat.
      Still summer weather and migrants gives them something to complain about…

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    Neville

    Mathematician Mile Jonas has all but proven that co2 has not been a major driver of temp increases over the last 450,000 years.
    The instrumental record showing the recovery from the LIA proves the point as well.

    http://wattsupwiththat.com/2015/07/31/the-mathematics-of-carbon-dioxide-part-3/

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    handjive

    Major Tom:

    “Here am I sitting in my tin can
    Far above the world
    Planet Earth is blue
    And there’s nothing I can do”
    . . .
    So why would you make a statement to stop fossil fuels?

    The very thing that put you there & sustains you?

    guardian: ESA astronaut on ISS from Italy Samantha Cristoforetti hold her message from space for Earth.

    Smart. Let’s stop all fossil fuels space flights immediately, and only use sunbeams & sea breezes to launch our spaceships to save the planet.

    Peak Stupidity. Are we there yet?

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    A few years ago I calculated the amount of money that has been squandered on building and researching wind and solar power. It amounted to $2 trillion. For technologies that are a burden on the electricity industry, increased the cost of power and do very little towards the futile objective of reducing carbon dioxide emissions.

    The subsidies are not included in the above – add on something in the region of $ 100 billion a year. There are also hidden subsidies in the form of transmission lines and expensive and inefficient backup generation.

    Many organisations are making a huge amounts of money out of the global warming hoax and one does have to wonder if they secretly fund the likes of Greenpeace.

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    pat

    getting the best advice???

    30 July: Eureka Alert: University of East Anglia Publis Release: Research explores future energy security of China
    China needs to reduce its dependence on coal and improve the range of fuels it uses if it is to have long term energy security, according to new research from the University of East Anglia (UEA)…
    http://www.eurekalert.org/pub_releases/2015-07/uoea-ref073015.php

    Science Direct: Electricity portfolio innovation for energy security: The case of carbon constrained China
    Elsevier: Technological Forecasting and Social Change Available online 27 July 2015
    Authors: Konstantinos J. Chalvatzis, Norwich Business School, University of East Anglia, Norwich NR4 7TJ, UK; Tyndall Centre for Climate Change Research, University of East Anglia, Norwich NR4 7TJ, UK
    Keagan Rubel, Mr. & Mrs. S.H. Wong Center for the Study of Multinational Corporations, 1922 Tice Valley Blvd., #2460, Walnut Creek, CA 94595, United States
    Abstract
    China’s energy sector is under pressure to achieve secure and affordable supply and a clear decarbonisation path. We examine the longitudinal trajectory of the Chinese electricity supply security and model the near future supply security based on the 12th 5 Year Plan. Our approach combines the Shannon–Wiener, Herfindahl–Hirschman and electricity import dependence indices for supply security appraisal. We find that electricity portfolio innovation allows China to provide secure energy supply despite increasing import dependence. It is argued that long-term aggressive deployment of renewable energy will unblock China’s coal-biased technological lock-in and increase supply security in all fronts. However, reduced supply diversity in China during the 1990s will not recover until after 2020s due to the long-term coal lock-in that can threaten to hold China back from realising its full potential.
    http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0040162515002218
    Dr Konstantinos J. Chalvatzis is a Senior Lecturer in Business and Climate Change at Norwich Business School and at the Tyndall Centre for Climate Change Research. He has visiting roles at the Department of Geographical Sciences at the University of Maryland, College Park, at the Resource Economics and Sustainable Development at the University of Bologna and at the Department of Mechanical Engineering at the University of Applied Sciences of Piraeus. His research focus is on technological transitions and futures in the energy sector and the role of innovation in systematic resilience. His research has been funded with industrial, EU and investment funding in excess of €15 m.

    Mr Keagan Rubel (Research Fellow, Wong Center for MNC) is Managing Partner for Econergy Corporation (HK) Limited and Senior Managing Consultant for epi Consulting. He has seven years experience working with Fortune 500 companies and SMEs on sustainability and corporate social responsibility (CSR) strategy design and implementation. Mr. Rubel earned his MBA (with Distinction) in Strategic Carbon Management from the University of East Anglia. He teaches part-time on global sustainability business solutions at Hult International Business School and for the Shanghai Center for Sustainability.

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      gai

      Like China is going to listen to some one from East Anglia in the UK or anyone from the USA nattering on about their energy grid.

      China is the actual Godzilla in the mist tip-toeing past the Bush and the Shrub (and if US voters are brain-dead the Twig off the same old Bush.)

      See:David Archibald’s China Picks at the Scab to Keep the Wound Fresh

      What is David talking about? Lessons of history: China’s century of humiliation — The repercussions of British opportunism in China during the Opium Wars can be felt in geopolitics even today

      Wall Street Journal: Chinese General Says U.S. Foreign Policy Has ‘Erectile Dysfunction’ Problems

      …Maj. Gen Zhu Chenghu, a professor at the National Defense University, made the remarks in an interview with Chinese-language Phoenix TV at the Shangri-La Dialogue in Singapore Saturday.

      He suggested that if China came to blows with any of its neighbors, the U.S. might not be a reliable ally.

      “As U.S. power declines, Washington needs to rely on its allies in order to reach its goal of containing China’s development,” he told the TV station.

      “But whether it will get involved or use military intervention once there is a territorial dispute involving China and its neighbors, that is another issue,” ….

      And from an earlier article in March of 2009 (USNews)

      Meanwhile, China’s Premier Wen Jiabao says he’s “worried” about the health of China’s $1 trillion worth of U.S. Treasury bonds. The consequence of a slowing U.S. economy, weakening stock market and massive government spending are threatening to send the dollar lower over time, devaluing holdings like Treasuries. That doesn’t, however, mean China will sell its massive bond holdings, since there are so few places for such huge pools of capital to go these days (that of course, is not a good thing). Quoted in the Financial Times, Luo Ping, a director-general at the China Banking Regulatory Commission, put it more bluntly:

      “Except for US Treasuries, what can you hold?” he asked. “Gold? You don’t hold Japanese government bonds or UK bonds. US Treasuries are the safe haven. For everyone, including China, it is the only option.”
      Mr Luo, whose English tends toward the colloquial, added: “We hate you guys. Once you start issuing $1 trillion-$2 trillion [$1,000bn-$2,000bn] . . .we know the dollar is going to depreciate, so we hate you guys but there is nothing much we can do.”

      http://www.usnews.com/blogs/the-ticker/2009/03/13/signs-of-stress-warren-buffetts-downgrade-chinas-treasury-jitters.html

      Actually China does know what to do get out of US bonds and invest in gold and foreign farmland and homeland infrastructure.

      A this point China is building her energy grid, manufacturing base and sucking up technology via hecking while keeping a relatively low profile. China and the other BRICS countries are also mining and amassing gold and with their Development bank going head to head against the Old Money Powers of the IMF and World Bank to woo the third world annexing farmland and allies.

      Heck China is buying up US farmland too.

      China is going on a global buying spree.
      Chinese nationals owned $81 million worth of U.S. farmland in 2011. A year later, that number jumped to $900 million. Another Chinese company then bought Smithfield Foods—a Virginia-based company that processes 32 million pigs a year. That purchase included enough farmland to bring the value of Chinese-owned U.S. farmland to $1.4 billion. The country now owns 1 in 4 pigs raised in the U.S.
      http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/propublica/2015/02/muckreads_chinese_acquisitions_heroin_treatments_and_california_s_trucks.html

      Seems China has no intention of starving if the weather turns cold. Too bad the US government doesn’t have the same attitude.

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        gai

        hecking = internet Hacking

        China-Based Hacking of 760 Companies Shows Cyber Cold War

        Hackers Linked to China’s Army Seen From EU to D.C.

        China’s Race for Patents to Build an Innovation Economy

        Who’s that knocking at ORNL’s front door? Yep, it’s China (again and again)
        ORNL = Oak Ridge National Laboratory and the Chinese want the patent on a thorium nuclear plant so their scientists visited Oak Ridge again and again and then the Oak Ridge National Laboratory computers were hacked….

        A bit more about China and Nuclear Technology so you are aware of what the Left, in the form of Bill Clinton and Al Gore, has done.

        I know it is off topic but the strength of China related to the USA is going to make a big difference in Paris. (The Chinese snubbed Obama and scuttled Copenhagen.)

        Chasing the Dragon: Clinton’s China Policy

        ….In return for campaign contributions, the President [Clinton] shifted regulation of technology exports from the State Department to the free-wheeling Commerce department. The administration also relaxed export controls and allowed corporations to decide if their technology transfers were legal or not. When easing restrictions wasn’t enough, Clinton signed waivers that simply circumvented the law. The President’s waivers allowed the export of machine tools, defense electronics, and even a communications system for the Chinese Air Force.

        Bernard Schwartz and Michael Armstrong, the CEOs of Loral and Hughes, each donated over one million dollars to Clinton’s re-election campaign. These companies had an interest in seeing China develop reliable missiles to loft their satellites into orbit. Clinton arranged direct talks between Bernard Schwartz and a Chinese general to improve China’s rocket technology. Michael Armstrong was made head of the Export Advisory Council. Both companies were allowed to upgrade the launching and guidance of China’s missiles.

        Clinton even involved the Department of Energy, caretaker of our nuclear weapons, in his fundraising schemes. In 1994 and ’95 then Energy Secretary Hazel O’Leary accompanied Johnny Chung, John Huang, Charlie Trie, and Bernard Schwartz on trade missions to China. Shortly afterward the DOE relaxed security at US weapons labs. Wen Ho Lee, an ethnic Chinese physicist assigned to Los Alamos, illegally transferred data on nuclear warheads to his private computer files.

        In June of 1995, the CIA learned that China had stolen the crown jewels of our nuclear arsenal, including the neutron bomb and the W-88 miniaturized warhead. Later that year National Security Advisor Anthony Lake is briefed on the thefts. He is replaced on the Security Council by Sandy Berger, a former lobbyist for the Chinese government. In June of 1996, before Bill Clinton’s re-election, the FBI opens a formal investigation into the theft of US nuclear weapon designs.

        Proof of China’s military intentions came in March of 1996, on the eve of Taiwan’s first democratic elections. China used the threat of force to intimidate the island nation into electing a pro-Beijing candidate. Military maneuvers included bombing runs and launching ballistic missiles that impacted within twenty miles of Taiwan. When the US sent an aircraft carrier into the Taiwan Straits, a Chinese general threatened to “rain down nukes upon Los Angeles”.

        In 1997, news of the campaign finance scandal reached the press. Clinton claimed he was “appalled” to learn he had received illegal contributions from China. As the Justice Department began investigating, over one hundred suspects fled the country or refused to testify. Despite FBI recommendations and congressional protests, Janet Reno refused to appoint an independent counsel.

        Then the press learned that China had stolen nuclear weapon designs from US research labs. The Clinton administration downplayed and even denied reports that any nuclear secrets were stolen, but this scandal was too big to ignore. Congress began a formal investigation by forming the Cox committee. The administration was forced to reveal the extent of China’s nuclear espionage, but they insisted Clinton had no previous knowledge. Sandy Berger even swore under oath that the President was not told about nuclear thefts until 1998, three years after the fact….

        And these people aren’t in jail for life?????

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    pat

    29 July: UK Telegraph: Justin Huggler: Solar-powered flight around the world ‘needs £14m’ to go on
    Solar Impulse 2 has been grounded in Hawaii for nine months while its Swiss-led team tries to raise funds to repair the plane.
    When Andre Borschberg reached Hawaii earlier this month after piloting Solar Impulse 2 non-stop from Japan, it was to a mix of joy and despair.
    It was the furthest anyone had ever flown on solar power alone, and the longest solo flight in history, at five days and five nights, or 117 hours and 52 minutes.
    But engineers discovered the taxing flight had caused irreversible damage to the single-seat aircraft’s batteries.
    There wasn’t time to repair the damage before winter sets in, according to the Swiss-led team, so the aircraft has been grounded until favourable weather returns next April.
    Now the team has announced it needs to raise €20m in new funds to cover the cost of repairs and the salaries of 150 people over the coming year.
    A spokeswoman told reporters the figure was just an “initial estimate”, and will also cover logistics and material.
    The University of Hawaii has agreed to house the aircraft in one of its hangars over the winter.
    But the team is facing the cost of turning what was planned as a one-year flight into a two-year mission…
    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/switzerland/11771506/Solar-powered-flight-around-the-world-needs-14m-to-go-on.html

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    Neville

    More Mann made warming and super corruption from the people at GISS.

    https://notalotofpeopleknowthat.wordpress.com/2015/07/31/mann-made-warming-at-giss/

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      TdeF

      Amazing, so temperatures for a given year keep going up steadily long after the year is over! Now that’s some fine data fiddling. Even the history is warming. We noticed this recently with announcements that the warmest year ever keeps going backwards in time.

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    pat

    re AGU study involving Michael Mann that i posted on jo’s previous “What consensus?” thread. u have to love the opening sentence “It’s well known in climate science that global surface temperatures over the past decade have been lower than climate models expected them to be”:

    31 July: CarbonBrief: Roz Pidcock: New study shrinks the gap between observed and modelled global temperatures
    It’s well known in climate science that global surface temperatures over the past decade have been lower than climate models expected them to be.
    Some parts of the media have jumped on this to suggest climate models overestimate the amount of warming we can expect in future.
    Now, a new paper says the discrepancy between modelled and observed temperatures isn’t as large as previously thought.
    Taking into account the different ways they estimate global temperature shrinks the difference between them by more than a third, according to the study in Geophysical Research Letters…
    It’s well known that HadCrut4 doesn’t have good coverage in the Arctic. This affects the global temperature estimate because the Arctic is warming faster than the global average. The paper addresses this by reducing global coverage in the models to match where we have observations.
    You can read more about the study over atClimate Lab Book (LINK), run by co-author Dr Ed Hawkins from the University of Reading. The University of York, where lead author Dr Kevin Cowtan is a researcher, has a handy briefing (LINK) explaining some other differences the team noticed to do with how observations and models deal with diminishing sea ice in the Arctic…
    So, which of the two approaches should we use to get the best picture of global temperature?
    Scientist can’t change the way Earth’s surface temperature has been measured in the past, says Hawkins. So, it would make sense to adjust the model temperatures to be consistent with the observations. He tells Carbon Brief:
    “I think the sensible approach is to extract the data from the models as if they were observations.”
    Doing it the other way round – adjusting observed temperatures to be consistent with models – is more tricky, says Hawkins…
    http://www.carbonbrief.org/blog/2015/07/new-study-shrinks-the-gap-between-observed-and-model-global-temperatures/

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    pat

    30 July: Bloomberg: Iran’s Thirst for Energy Draws in Wind Developers
    by Nicholas Brautlecht & Stefan Nicola
    Developers such as GI Umweltconsult and turbine suppliers including Nordex SE are preparing to enter the market.
    While Iran’s renewables industry is concentrated mainly on hydro plants, the government plans to bolster wind as a way of preserving crude oil for export, and feeding the electricity needs of its more than 80 million people. With an ambition to install 5 gigawatts of renewable capacity by 2020, Iran would rank alongside France and the U.K. as an industry leader…
    “Every kilowatt-hour of extra wind power allows them to export more oil, meaning more foreign currency,” Michael Tockuss, managing director of the German-Iranian Chamber of Commerce, said in an interview in Hamburg…
    Royal Dutch Shell Plc and BP Plc were among the first oil majors to say they’re interested in working Iran’s fields, which the government estimates need $200 billion of investment…
    Umweltconsult, a renewable energy developer based in Berlin, is planning wind farms requiring investment of 300 million euros ($331 million) in Iran starting next year, Shahnaz Horvath, co-head of the company, said in an interview…
    Iran’s wind energy potential is estimated at more than 30,000 megawatts, Mohammad Saeid Hojjati, economic counselor at the Iranian Embassy in Berlin, said by e-mail. There is “huge potential” for electricity generation from different renewable sources including wind and solar, he said…
    Iran’s government set its renewable energy target in 2012 and has just 150 megawatts of clean power plants operating now. It adopted Germany’s feed-in-tariff model 10 years ago, granting developers a fixed price for electricity from renewables, and recently boosted the payout for wind by 3.9 percent to 5,300 rials (18 cents) per kilowatt-hour…
    With about 1,000 megawatts of new capacity planned a year, Iran’s onshore wind market may compare with France and the U.K., said Oliver Kayser, spokesman for the German turbine maker Nordex SE. The two European markets have contributed installation of about that much in most years for most for the last decade, according to data compiled by Bloomberg…
    Denmark’s Vestas Wind Systems A/S is eager to explore the Iranian market, said Michael Zarin, a company spokesman. The biggest turbine maker has installed 37 of its machines in the country, most recently in 2004, according to its website…
    http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2015-07-29/nuclear-deal-opens-market-as-big-as-france-for-iran-wind

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    pat

    31 July: Bloomberg: Wael Mahdi: Saudi Aramco Testing C02 to Get More Oil From Giant Ghawar Field
    Saudi Arabian Oil Co. started injecting carbon dioxide to try and boost extraction rates from the world’s biggest oil field as the company steps up plans to recover more crude from its deposits.
    Saudi Aramco, as the company is known, already started injection and will put 40 million standard cubic feet per day of CO2 into the Uthmaniyah area south of the Ghawar field, it said Thursday in an Arabic statement on its website. About 40 percent of what’s injected will be stored in the field.
    “The project aims to enhance oil recovery beyond the more common method of water flooding, and is the largest of its kind in the Middle East,” it said. The project is part of the company’s efforts to reducing domestic carbon emissions and meeting environmental goals, it said.
    Oil-rich nations across the Persian Gulf are seeking ways to continue output from fields that are at least half a century old. While the industry average is for producers to recover about 35 percent of fields’ total deposits, Saudi Aramco is developing technology that could double that rate, Ahmad al-Khowaiter, chief technology officer, said in March…
    Injecting CO2 into Uthmaniyah will boost oil-recovery rates by 10 to 15 percentage points, Khowaiter said in March. The CO2 for the project will be captured at Hawiyah gas recovery plant and then piped 85-kilometers to the site. The project will be tested for three to five years before Aramco applies the technology to other fields, it said in Thursday’s statement.
    “Saudi Aramco is carrying out extensive research to enable us to lower our carbon footprint while continuing to supply the energy the world needs,” said Amin H. Nasser, acting president and chief executive officer…
    http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2015-07-31/saudi-aramco-testing-c02-to-get-more-oil-from-giant-ghawar-field

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    Steve McDonald

    I was just watching CNN on FOX.
    Anderson Cooper had an expert on talking about the plane debris that washed up near Africa.
    They were praising the university of W.A. for it’s brilliant prediction of that event occurring.
    The expert said it was very accurate considering typhoons cyclones wild storms and ,”CLIMATE CHANGE”.
    An obscene display of arrogant belief that we are all brain dead morons.
    They then can’t figure out we we won’t believe their self-serving lies.
    Who then has a severely stunted intellectual capacity?

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      TdeF

      You are entitled to ask, what climate change? Would someone please explain? Why is it continually mentioned if no one knows what it is.

      Sure there has been an alleged and allegedly devastating 0.85C increase in average world air temperature over the last 100 years but what climate change exactly has been caused by this massive difference?

      I would have thought on any given day, the difference was far smaller than the daily changes and monthly and with the seasons and even of decades with the well known 11 year solar cycle, know to the Egyptians since ancient times. In fact this ridiculously small change in an average would not have even been detectable without modern instruments and satellites and even they now cannot detect a change.

      So what Climate Change is everyone talking about?

      The usual rejoinder is that people do not know the difference between weather and climate. I have to say warmists cannot tell the difference between climate and weather. Apart from the dire predictions of doomsayers who claim to be science experts, there has been no significant change in the temperature in 100 years. Such changes as we have seen are more due to water storage, agriculture, changes in plants, man made fires, land forming and not at all to temperature, sensitive to CO2 or not.

      We do not need to be told daily about (terrible) Climate Change when no one knows what it is.

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    King Geo

    USA Climate Change Consulting Market in 2014 – turnover of US$900 million.

    Circa 1800′s : “Snake Oil For Sale – Cures All Your Ailments”

    Circa 2000′s : “Climate Change Consultants [CCC] – Cures All Earth’s Ailments”

    Clearly the deception is still there on Planet Earth 200 years on by these leeching low lifes [LLL].

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    John of Cloverdale, WA, Australia.

    I suppose Paul Barry of Media Watch would say:
    I see NOTHING!

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    pat

    Eric Worrall has a new thread on WUWT on the following (with a brief summary in the link he provides), but his interpretation doesn’t match the following details.
    the so-called CC spying (shared with Australia/NZ etc) doesn’t refer to any obsession over CAGW by the Obama Admin, but rather refers to an earlier period under the Bush II Admin.
    plus there’s the fact that the spying is of everyone all the time to consider:

    31 July: Foreign Policy: Climate and Cherry Disputes in WikiLeaks Documents Show U.S.-Japan Relations Can Be the Pits
    by Lara Jakes & Keith Johnson
    (at bottom of article) Pentagon correspondent Paul McLeary contributed to this report.
    Two years earlier, in 2007, Japanese officials preparing for a summit with officials of the administration of then-President George W. Bush, debated how much to play up their goals for tackling climate change. The Japanese Foreign Ministry thought about not telling Washington of its ambitious plans to curb emissions, “because the ministry did not expect Washington to approve of such a goal, based on the U.S. reaction to climate change issues so far,” according to the WikiLeaks document.
    In the end, Japanese officials decided that Prime Minister Shinzo Abe would “clearly state” the climate goal. “Japan anticipates no major harm to the Japanese-U.S. relationship as a result,” the summary reads…
    And in 2008, U.S. spies again eavesdropped on Japanese officials as they prepared for a big meeting of the Group of 8 countries (G-8). At issue: Japan’s continued advocacy of an approach to fighting climate change that had run afoul of some energy experts and European governments. The NSA summary notes that, despite international criticism, Japanese officials planned to forge ahead with their so-called “sectoral approach” to slashing emissions, which they in fact did later that year at a large, global climate conference in Bali, Indonesia.
    https://foreignpolicy.com/2015/07/31/climate-and-cherry-disputes-in-wikileaks-documents-show-u-s-japan-relations-can-be-the-pits/

    pdf. 2 pages: Wikileaks: US Intercepts Abe’s Secret Plan on Carbon Emissions
    WikiLeaks release: July 31, 2015
    2007….READ ON
    https://wikileaks.org/nsa-japan/intercepts/WikiLeaks_NSA_Spy_Abe_Carbon_Emissions.pdf

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    pat

    31 July: KGW Portland: Judge: Greenpeace must pay $17,500 in fines due to protest
    Kyle Iboshi, KGW News
    http://www.kgw.com/story/news/2015/07/30/judge-greenpeace-must-pay-2500-an-hour-for-protest/30891895/

    31 July: Oregonian: Andrew Theen: Charlie Hales invited to White House for clean power conference, will share Greenpeace story
    Charlie Hales is getting on a plane and headed east to talk climate change for the second time in the past two weeks.
    The Portland mayor will attend a Monday conference at the White House to discuss the Environmental Protection Agency’s plan to cut emissions at the nation’s power plants…
    Hales will be one of either 10 or 11 U.S. mayors at the conference, (Hales’ spokesman, Dana) Haynes said. Haynes said he didn’t know any more specifics about the conference.
    While the conference isn’t specifically connected to drilling in the Arctic, Haynes said the mayor believes the invitation is the “perfect opportunity” to share Portland’s story from the past 72 hours. “Here is what we just heard from thousands of thousands of Portlanders on the area of fossil fuels,” Haynes said.
    On Friday, Hales specifically took a stance against drilling in the Arctic…
    “Protest is important because that’s how you reach the attention of lawmakers, who listen and then act to change the laws. I listened,” Hales said in a statement. “In fact, I agree that the arctic should be off-limits to oil exploration.”
    Hales will also try to meet with U.S. Sen. Jeff Merkley, who wants to ban drilling in the Arctic.
    Hales just returned this week from a trip to Italy, where he participated in a special summit hosted by Pope Francis and the Pontifical Academy of Sciences.
    The city of Portland paid for the Vatican trip, and will pay for Hales’ trip to Washington D.C.
    Hales, who was supposed to be on vacation, will be in Washington for about 24 hours.
    COMMENTS:
    by tow chain:
    “Here is what we just heard from thousands of thousands of Portlanders on the area of fossil fuels,” Haynes said.
    And here I thought all the opposition was imported from out of state. All the bridge trespassers were Greenpiece paid employees I thought. Every one trotted out in front of the cameras as being organizers were not Portlanders.
    Dana what a stupid statement!
    http://www.oregonlive.com/portland/index.ssf/2015/07/charlie_hales_invited_to_white.html#incart_story_package

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    TdeF

    With the huge amount of press Climate Change is getting (less Global Warming), is anyone actually saying which climates are changing and how?

    Or is it just random verbage like more storms, hotter summer days, more droughts more often, heavier rainfalls more often, less ice and more ice, stronger winds and less wind and hotter and more frequent bushfires. In other words, nonsense.

    So is anyone who talks about Climate Change and Climate Change denial actually clear on what climate change is happening, in Australia for example. How has the climate changed in a way it has never done before? Why should every decade be the same as the previous? Isn’t changing weather patterns part of the climate? Aren’t droughts part of the Australian condition? Bushfires too?

    As politicians debate what to do about Climate Change, what is it? Why should we close coal power generators and build more windmills and subsidize more solar and close power stations? How does the climate change if the temperature is not changing and why should CO2 cause Climate Change when it cannot even change the temperature? Why does the temperature of the ocean surface matter if we don’t live there?

    I remember when John Howard, our second longest serving prime Minister was asked what he was going to do about the Age headline “Worst drought in 1,000 years” replied “how do you know that?”. The next day the Age headline was “worst drought in 100 years”.

    So Mr and Ms politician, just ask the question. What Climate Change? You will be met by silence. Maybe then the lunacy will start to end.

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    pat

    31 July: Oregonian: Stuart Tomlinson: Greenpeace protest: Controversial ship Fennica moves through protesters on St. Johns Bridge (live updates)
    Just before 6 p.m. Thursday night, Shell Oil’s controversial icebreaker MSV Fennica weaved through nine remaining protesters hanging from the St. Johns Bridge and made its way toward the Pacific Ocean.
    After winning an early morning game of chicken with the ship, Greenpeace protesters suspended from the bridge and in kayaks and canoes on the river were left disappointed. Thirteen of them had spent the better part of 40 hours in climbers slings and on portable platforms…
    6:30 p.m. UPDATE: “Everybody’s hearts are broken,” Greenpeace USA spokeswoman Cassady Sharp said Thursday evening…
    “They’re just getting amazing love and support,” Sharp said. “That’s what makes us feel encouraged after today.”
    http://www.oregonlive.com/portland/index.ssf/2015/07/greenpeace_protest_icebreaker.html#incart_most-read_portland_article

    31 July: Oregonian: Stuart Tomlinson: How much will the Greenpeace protest cost taxpayers?
    It’s a simple question with a complex answer. The amount varies by agency, by how many people were working and by any mutual-aid agreements already in place.
    Nine agencies responded to the two-day Greenpeace USA protest. Their managers are adding up the additional money they spent on overtime, supplies and other expenses…READ FOR DETAILS
    http://www.oregonlive.com/portland/index.ssf/2015/07/agencies_involved_in_handling.html

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    William

    Since I am one of those skeptics who has been paid off by big oil, and am part of this trillion dollar industry, can somebody please explain where my cheques are?
    I check my mail every day, but still haven’t got even one payment.
    Please explain?

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      Another Ian

      William

      Maybe it is the back log of these undelivered cheques in the mail that is causing Australia Post’s need to increase prices?

      Or maybe they’re already on the wrong side of the Laffer Curve?

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    PeterS

    So when the global cooling is in full swing will the AGW alarmists, governments and corporations refund the monies? I bet not. At least they all should go to prison for life for participating in the biggest scam of all time.

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    Mike

    At this point, the best option is to tax all anthropogenic emissions democratically. For instance, it might be possible then to have an emissions trading scheme for pesticides and herbicides and make a ‘killing’.
    You can call me an ‘idiot’.
    From https://wordfoolery.wordpress.com/tag/ancient-greek-meaning/
    “The word’s roots lie in idios which means private or one’s own. So Butler is right in saying that an idiot has thoughts of “his own. It is, however, a little more complex than a mere translation from Greek.

    “Idios led to idiotes which meant a person lacking in a professional skill or a private citizen or individual. That’s a “pretty common state and not something that means a lack of intelligence but the Greeks weren’t worried about intelligence, “they were concerned with democracy.

    “In Athenian democracy (thanks to Wikipedia for this detail) an idiot was someone concerned only with private, as opposed to “public, affairs. This was the opposite of a citizen. They believed idiots were born and citizens were made, through “education. Refusing to be a citizen, avoiding politics and debate was seen as dishonourable and selfish”

    [Interesting .... Thanks, Jo]

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      Mike

      I guess what is being said here by me in a certain state that needs to be quantified by certain experts, amongst other things is that, all-molecules-are-not-created-equal. Lets have an international panel on ‘all’ the anthropogenic molecules and effects thereof.

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    gai

    Then the talk about limestone being actively involved is on a geological time scale of millions of years, not the 14 year half life of CO2 in the air.

    Actually limestone/CO2 activity is not on the geological time scale of millions of years. It is happening every minute of every day as any caver knows.

    Here is limestone/CO2 activity in action in 2015:
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QeRmaz6Bj_I

    (There are many more sinkholes around the world opening up linked on the right side.)

    “Sinkholes are not uncommon in Missouri with 15,981 verified in the state, according to the Department of Natural Resources’ website.” I have seen them open up on farmland on more than one occasion between visits to a local cave. People think ‘geology’ is glacially slow. It is not.

    The Pacific Plate is moving to the northwest at a speed of between 7 and 11 cetimeters (cm) or ~3-4 inches a year….

    The North American plate is moving to the west-southwest at about 2.3 cm (~1 inch) per year….

    The small Juan De Fuca Plate, moving east-northeast at 4 cm (~1.6 inches) per year….

    The Pacific Plate is moving to the northwest at a speed of between 7 and 11 cetimeters (cm) or ~3-4 inches a year.
    http://pnsn.org/outreach/about-earthquakes/plate-tectonics

    …………

    As far as the oceans go you have equilibriums, that are not slow because they are happening in solution (sea water)

    Atmosphere (===) ocean (===) rocks, coral, and whatever else.

    (===) means in equilibrium with.

    For those who are not chemists How Buffers Work

    …….

    One of the nastier bits of sleight of hand the Warmists pull is equating the ocean with H2O + NaCl and nothing else while in actual fact the oceans are a soup full of various elements and molecules in solution. This is the basis of the Ocean Acidification malarkey. The warmist even go so far as to use lab made ‘sea water’ (only water + salt + acid) to ‘prove’ more CO2 will dissolve coral and then write papers about their ‘proof’

    This gives a chart for the ion species in solution in various seas: Major ion composition of seawater (mg/L)
    Typical Seawater contains
    Sulfate (SO42-) 2,649 (mg/L)
    Magnesium (Mg2+) 1,262 (mg/L)
    Calcium (Ca2+)400 (mg/L)
    Potassium (K+) 380 (mg/L)
    Bicarbonate(HCO3-) 140 (mg/L)

    All in (mg/L) converted to American notation The comma (,) separates thousands. The list is in descending order of amount.

    Each liter of seawater contains, on average, about 13 billionths of a gram of gold according to NOAA. You find Thorium and uranium isotopes in sea water too.

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    Publius

    Many have lost track of the things that were uncovered years ago while George W. Bush was in office.
    In Chicago there is a bank account already setup for this carbon tax scheme and some word of a stock exchange symbol they had in place and pulled it for now, as it was allowing a few people to follow the money as it were. They have taken in many billion$ and now saying the account is near empty! They ran off with it! They have near nothing to spend it on, but on rent for a very small office space.
    So far this from what I have seen, this now has all the hall marks of a Ponzi Pyramid Scheme and the people that got in early along with anyone that got into power (executive office) wants this to happen so badly as the pay off is in the billion$ for each of them. Many of the politicos from around the world that were coned and paid into this, will be waiting a very long time to be paid off, some will never see it.

    They are telling stories of whats going to happen with this pretended global warming (rebrand as “Climate Change”) and all of it defies common wisdom and common sense logic.

    To date they have refused to submit any paper work for peer review, and they need to be told, they have to produce the paper work they have on hand (they don’t month’s to fabricate it) and submit it for all the world to see and review., or no deal whatsoever.

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    Amber

    Without the fossil fuel industry the Guardian would not exist .

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    How about a little modification of the title…

    From: “Spot the Vested Interest: The $1.5 Trillion Climate Change Industry”

    To: “Stop the Vested Interest: The $1.5 Trillion Climate Change Industry”

    [Thankyou for the suggestion Bob, but I suspect Jo would like to keep it subtle, the way it is.] Fly

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    uzurbrain

    In the spring of 542, the plague arrived in Constantinople, working its way from port city to port city and spreading around the Mediterranean Sea, later migrating inland eastward into Asia Minor and west into Greece and Italy.
    In the Late Middle Ages (1340–1400) Europe experienced the most deadly disease outbreak in history when the Black Death, the infamous pandemic of bubonic plague, hit in 1347, killing a third of the human population. It is believed that society subsequently became more violent as the mass mortality rate cheapened life and thus increased warfare, crime, popular revolt, waves of flagellants, and persecution.
    In the 20th century, the Green Plague arrived. However, it remained in remission until An Inconvenient Truth a 2006 documentary about former United States Vice President Al Gore’s campaign to educate citizens about global warming via a comprehensive slide show that, by his own estimate made in the film, he has given more than a thousand times. That film launched a $1.5 Trillion dollar escapade, which means four billion dollars a day is spent on our quest to change the climate. That includes everything from carbon markets to carbon consulting, carbon sequestration, renewables, biofuels, green buildings and insipid cars. The money wasted goes beyond even that amount as the waste has been pushed into the garbage business creating other related symptoms such as Recycling, Zero net Energy mandates for homes, Renewable Electricity Service Mandates and Goals and their inherent doubling of the cost of electricity, and the hidden guilt trips in essentially every nature documentary filmed in the last 15 years.

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    Frank D

    In fact the interest of big oil and the global warming industry are perfectly alined.
    The profits of the oil industry depend on the high price of oil. The only reason for the high prices is the fact that people think, that we shouldn’t produce more and we shouldn’t use coal. This is keeping prives artificially inflated. Production cost of oil are around 10 $ a barrel in most places.

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    [...] comes via Jo Nova Climate Change Business Journal estimates the Climate Change Industry is a $1.5 Trillion dollar [...]

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    My Facebook Experiment
    I posted the following on Facebook: “I am conducting an experiment on Facebook censorship of posts. It is just not feasible that there is someone watching every post, there are too many. Therefore it seems likely that there is a blacklist of “bad” Web pages. In principle that is fair enough; the proprietors of Facebook need to weed out libellous and offensive material for which they may be legally held to account. The problem is that while Rupert, Tony and Bronwyn are fair game, the slightest whiff of climate change “denial” and the post disappears within minutes. I tried it this morning with a link to Jo N*va’s blog which I unsuccessfully posted 4 times in the space of 90 minutes. Here is the link
    http://*.com.au/2015/07/spot-the-vested-interest-the-1-5-trillion-climate-change-industry/ where
    joannenova replaces the asterisk.”

    This time it stayed posted!

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      Rereke Whakaaro

      It happens quite a bit, I understand.

      I tried to put a comment up about the recent earthquakes in Nepal, which contained some rather “graphic” commentary, from people on the ground, regarding some of the horrific injuries sustained by children when a school building collapsed. It went nowhere. Facebook users prefer warm and cuddly, and not raw and explicit.

      This site tells it as it is, and the moderators (and the commentators) keep people fairly honest. But a lot of what Jo presents is counter to the “official” government-sanctioned, and sanitized, version of reality, That apparently upsets some of the poor darlings who don’t like anything “nasty” to interfere with their self-complacency.

      Try posting something like that, on Facebook, and see how long it lasts.

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      gai

      Try putting up a comment with Trotsky

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        gai

        Jo Nova alows it through but wordpress does not.

        I will make another trial of John Kehr’s website that I can not post at three sites.

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    [...] has produced a B &B juggernaut. On the Bootlegger side, it has an industry now billing out at $1.5 trillion per year, “includ[ing] everything from carbon markets to carbon consulting, carbon sequestration, [...]

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    [...] $4 billion a day spent on vital stuff like carbon trading, biofuels, and wind turbines. Or — as Jo Nova notes — it’s the same amount the world spends every year on online [...]

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    JimGord

    JoNova continues its attempts to fool people into thinking that there is no climate change and it is all a conspiracy by 10,000 plus scientists
    What nonsense
    It is a good thing that we listened to the scientists, when they raised the alarm abut the Ozone layer, The ozone layer is slowly coming back now that the CFCs were managed under the Montreal protocol
    CO2 and methane are far. far worse. Unless you have a Plan B to live off the grid in the northwest, you or your children are screwed.
    It will start with crop failures in California and mid-west (already happening), shore line losses in all coastal cities (already happening), diversion of water from farming to human consumption (already happening), acidification of the Ocean and massive red tides (already happening) and climate change refuge migration in Europe (already happening)

    [The... ahem.... farce is strong with this one.....] ED

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      1. I’m flattered you think JoNova is a collective “its”, but have bad news for you about the washing of your brain.
      2. I suggest no conspiracy — just systematic problems. Perhaps read my site before you comment and you won’t look like a propaganda tool? See point 1.
      3. Argument from authority about other things, other “scientists” did on other topics shows how vaporous your case is.
      4. And crop failures, erosion, red tides and migration have all been happening forever, and are due to many factors. Ocean acidification is modeled (it’s a guess). Natural daily variability in some parts is larger. Marine life copes.
      5. UAH shows no warming for 18 years. Wash that through your evidence.

      Good luck with the deprogramming.

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      As kids growing up in Sydney in the 1950′s and 1960′s, we used to have severe heat waves most summers. Dangerous bush fires would burn in the extreme heat that often reached as high as the mid 40 degrees C. Temperatures like this were common around Christmas time most years back then.
      We lived near a national park (Lane Cove River Park) in the inner north of Sydney and all the residents were issued with poles with a leather flap on their end to use to help fight bush fires at the ends of the suburban streets. Everyone’s Dad had to do this just about every year as the fires were so prevalent in this hot weather.
      I also remember getting blisters on my feet by walking on the hot sand at the Sydney beaches in summer. Since those days I have walked many times on beaches in summer and never experienced really hot sand underfoot like was common back then. I have also rarely experienced such hot temperatures as back then. And now fires are rare in the area even though the bush is still there!
      It was much, much hotter in NSW and Southern Queensland back then than it is now, you cannot compare it. I get amazed when people try to claim it is meant to be getting hotter now.
      This is ridiculous. Southern Queensland is quite mild and temperate these days compared to the searing temperatures I used to experience there when I spent my summer holidays as a kid. Let’s have some honest reporting for a change about the truth and that is that the temperature is cooling down, not warming up.

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