JoNova

A science presenter, writer, speaker & former TV host; author of The Skeptic's Handbook (over 200,000 copies distributed & available in 15 languages).


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Peter Doherty: Australia is “public enemy number one”, cites “couple of people”

Why launch a $15 billion dollar tax? Forget any scientific reason; let’s do it so people overseas don’t laugh at us. This is as good as the reasoning gets. Have you got a Nobel? You too, could waffle on about hobbling our economy in the quest for international popularity.

Nobel Laureate Peter Doherty says Australia is being seen internationally as “public enemy number one” on climate change

“Australia is being regarded as public enemy number one,” said Professor Doherty, who won the Nobel prize in physiology or medicine in 1996.

The evidence Australia is seen as a public enemy?

“That’s a statement that’s been made to me by a couple of people – so that’s obviously a kind of buzz that’s going around the climate change community.”

Not exactly a large poll or a mass survey, but it impressed , the Sydney Morning Herald and perhaps Ben Cubby (Environment Editor) too. Who needs evidence when you have the right “buzz”? Baseless ramblings are good to go.  File that rant under “Health and Indigenous Affairs” I suppose. It sure isn’t science.

The SMH could interview other Nobel Prize winners who use evidence and reason instead of ideological namecalling based on two anonymous friends.

The polls show that most of the international population don’t care about their own emissions, let alone Austria’s, err, Australia’s. Half the world thinks climate scientists don’t know what they are talking about, and with the help of Doherty, soon they won’t think much of Nobel Prize winners either.

Feel the urge to make grandiose baseless statements about imaginary public feelings? Could it have something to do with the symposium he is at?

Professor Doherty, who is in Hong Kong for an Asia Society symposium on making cities more sustainable, said there was a perception that Australia was not playing a constructive role in the lead-up to the United Nations climate change conference in Paris later this year, which many see as the world’s “last best chance” for global action to reduce carbon emissions.

Did he pay to attend that junket himself?

China says “Yes” to green money, “No” to green action

Doherty says “… [Australia] risks being isolated as China seeks to reduce its reliance on coal.”

In 2013 China and India had plans to add half a million megawatts of coal fired electricity each. Australian is the largest coal exporter in the world, but China digs up ten times more coal than we export, and when they run out that, they have 200 years of shale gas to use as well. To show us how serious they are they’ve bravely agreed to an unenforceable long term climate commitments with no consequences. And to be on the safe side, their population projections show their emissions would peak in 2030 anyway, so they are promising nothing more than business-as-usual. The Chinese obviously don’t give a toss about their emissions, but they will put their hand up to say “thanks for the climate money”. Eighty percent of Chinese people were skeptical  in one Gallup International poll. Guess they aren’t as stupid as some others.

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Peter Doherty: Australia is "public enemy number one", cites "couple of people", 9.4 out of 10 based on 107 ratings

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176 comments to Peter Doherty: Australia is “public enemy number one”, cites “couple of people”

  • #
    john karajas

    Yes sirree Jo! The government-paid grandees are swanning around the planet and making feel-good statements on areas they really don’t know much about and we peasants can bloody well shut up and listen.

    On a more cheerful note, Andrew Bolt reports that Clive Hamilton has had a very scathing review of his latest intended publication and his feelings have been well and truly hurt. Well: Boo Sucks!

    620

  • #
    John F. Hultquist

    More than a couple of people are always saying that the “Rapture” day is going to be real soon now. It doesn’t come, so they change the date.
    Nobel Laureate Peter Doherty is in fine company.
    His white coat with buckles will be arriving shortly.
    Sad.

    411

    • #
      Crakar24

      The rapture will be here “any minute now”

      United Nations climate change conference in Paris later this year, which many see as the world’s “last best chance” for global action to reduce carbon emissions.

      Last best chance, what the hell does that mean? Will there be a last worse chance? When was the first best chance, COP 15 in Copenhardly?

      Like all good revenue raising religions the end dates keep sliding right………..come to think of it thats how most Government projects work and they end up costing sheds full more than advertised. The good news is they are now reduced to “a couple of my mates reckon CAGW is real so it must be” so maybe this is our last best chance to derail this absurd joke once and for all.

      681

      • #
        Random Comment

        Crack me up! LYW

        101

      • #
        michael hart

        It was the best of last chances, it was the worst of last chances…

        The rest of us just hope it will be the last of last chances. Otherwise we’ll all have to build a new garage to store all the last chances we keep being offered.

        150

        • #
          Richard of NZ

          But, it is a far far better thing we do to go green and gold Australia.

          p.s. go the gold and blacks.

          20

      • #
        tom0mason

        Crakar24

        “Last best chance, what the hell does that mean?”
        Maybe they see that now this is not the end of CAGW alarmism. It is not even the changing climate marking the beginning of the end. But it is, perhaps, the end of the the beginning of the power-grab by the UN misanthropes.
        Hopefully the lunatic driven tide of CAGW opinions have reached a flood, it’s high water mark, and now must abate revealing the more stable truths beneath its noisy crashing waves.

        110

        • #
          Another Graeme

          I think they stole it from the opening sequence of Babylon 5. Fitting really as both are science fiction

          50

  • #

    You would think a medical professional would study the topic professionally before commenting about what a couple of his ‘peers’ told him. Carbon dioxide is the stuff of life, yet the ideologues have been preaching misery in one form or another for 65 years at least. Their gravy train is starting to derail, so the shouting gets louder.

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    • #
      OriginalSteve

      Yes they are “doubling down” – they know once it all collapses, jail terms arent far behind, so now they are trying to madly obscufate the reality with distractions by finger pointing and harassment…..

      70

    • #
      sophocles

      Their gravy train will never derail. Look at all the `EoW’s’ down the centuries (45 of them which I know of), `2ndC’s,’ and other disasters. (EoW = End of the World, 2ndC’s = Second Comings.) It’s a perpetual Money Machine. Point it at a GP (Gullible Pocket) and it knows exactly what to do. A million GPs is even better.

      People in the US were rapidly signed up for banning all use of dihydrogenmonoxide (it’s all Over The Place, in baby food, mixed with pesticides, contains pollution, causes urination and sweating, and is washed into our rivers and lakes. It’s really bad stuff! ), of all things. They would have signed up to ban its common isomer oxygendihydride too, (it’s all over the place too! And *gasp* it emits CO2 when heated! We’ve got to STOP all these chemicals!) if it had been asked of them. So funding? Not a problem. Just open your wallet and say after me: “Help Yourself!” Thank you, don’t mind if I do.

      The 16 and 17th Centuries had the Witch Hunts to entertain them.
      The early 20th Century had Piltdown Man
      Now we have … ( drum roll, cue fanfare)

      The Greatest End of The World Ev-vah! Klimate Change!

      Just give the gravy train a new paint job as its livery, a new catchy name, a new catchy tune for its whistle and all aboard. It will keep on rolling.

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      • #
        Crakar24

        Oh yes Sophocles i could not agree more, the key here is to reset the clock every now and then. I read a story the other day titled “65 years of duck and cover” a very interesting read.

        50

      • #
        OriginalSteve

        If what you say is true ( i.e. they have got away with it ), failing armed uprisings to stop Agenda 21, taking what youre saying to its logical extension – welcome to global slavery, genocide and misery under Agenda 21 then…. ?

        50

  • #
    Leigh

    If the vibes (buzz) all they’ve got, you know their clutching ar straws.

    110

  • #
    el gordo

    The Fairfax climate change clique, Cubby, Harrison and Hannam are a disgrace.

    Doherty continues to blot his copy book with ignorant comments, clearly swayed by media propaganda.

    350

  • #
    handjive

    Professor Doherty, who is in Hong Kong for an Asia Society symposium on making cities more sustainable …
    ~ ~ ~
    The good Professor Doherty joins fellow believers, former chief scientist Professor Penny Sackett and now deputy chair of the ACT Climate Change Council and an adjunct professor for the ANU’s Climate Change Institute, Nobel laureate Professor Brian Schmidt, and ACT Environment Minister Simon Corbell. (smh)

    - “I would really love to see the country I live in … do all it can for climate change and I don’t think we are there yet,” said Professor Penny Sackett.

    > Well Penny, we ‘can’t be there yet’ until y’all catch those fossil fuelled flights back to “the country you live in.”
    And never catch another fossil fuelled flight again.

    - “Neither the federal government nor opposition’s policies would solve climate change in the short-term”, Professor Schmidt said, “instead scientific solutions would take 20 years to develop but work should begin now.”

    There’s no absolute answer to how we are going to solve this, but we need to be dabbling in it.”
    . . .
    Dabbling? Egad.

    I’ll believe it is a crisis when the people who squeal that there is a crisis start behaving like there is a crisis.

    471

    • #
      TdeF

      Yes. Ban all aircraft flights. Stop driving cars. Stop the coal fired power stations. Stop all the machinery and harvesters and foundries and turn off those lights and computers. Now get to work.

      Hold on, you can just pay people overseas for carbon credits for the right to drive and keep cool and warm and grow food and travel overseas?

      That is the UN carbon credit indulgence scheme, part of the religion of Climate Change. All moneys go to the people who invented the Global Warming idea, the same IPCC and their UN paymasters, the people who insist there is a problem in the first place. No questions from deniers, please. 30,000 people are flying to Paris this year just to discuss the evils of flying, at your expense of course.

      At what point does this all seem to disconnect from reality? As dad said in “The Castle”, “tell them they’re dreaming”.

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      • #
        handjive

        Warmer Climate Threatens Airplane Takeoffs

        Worldwide, airports at higher elevations and with short runways and limited room to expand will feel the impacts most.
        Future airplanes may have to be designed to compensate for reduced lift in the weather of the future.

        http://blogs.ei.columbia.edu/2014/12/03/agu-2014-key-events-from-the-earth-institute/

        60

        • #
          Annie

          We’ve been here before. I wonder how they cope in Dubai and other places in the Gulf? They seem not to have any problems at Emirates with all their Airbus A380s!

          70

        • #
          DavidH

          Redesigned to compensate for reduced lift? The aircraft will still take off; at most, the load capacity would be reduced. This is basic private pilot curriculum – density altitude calculations. When I learned in San Diego, we were taught of a nearby extreme – Big Bear Lake, high and (sometimes) hot, so if you’re too heavy (bags, fuel tanks full) you mightn’t be able to take off safely.

          30

        • #
          RB

          5 degrees warmer corresponds to about 2% less density. Didn’t addition winglets make a much bigger difference to lift? They decrease fuel consumption by 4-6%.

          40

    • #
      PeterK

      Never have so many spewed so much about so little!

      130

  • #
    Mikky

    My advice to Aussies would be to invest in a good set of earplugs, a great tip for being able to sleep during zombie attacks, the moaning, wailing and finger-pointing will get steadily louder as Paris 2015 approaches.

    350

  • #

    Lomborg is a warmist with slightly better tastes in white elephants. What does Dougherty want? No matter how much Aussie coal is burnt in China to make whirlygigs and solar panels you will still get global droughts like 1878, withering Australian droughts like the late 1830s which dried up the ‘bidgee, killer heats like 1896 (both hemispheres!), and Qld cyclones like 1899 (coinciding with blizzard reaching to the Caribbean). And don’t get me started on that colossal monsoon failure of the early 1790s which killed millions in India and could have wiped out the new settlement at Sydney Cove.

    So what or when was this stable climate we are supposed to be dialling with our taxes or good intentions or jet trails to Paris?

    If there’s a problem with how the world perceives us (or a couple of people and some “buzz”), maybe we should we make like Norway and the Netherlands and get rich funneling fossil fuels to the world while merely refining our green patter. Or massively expand our coal industry like Germany and tell the luvvies it’s to do with our heartbreak over Fukushima. If we can’t be good adults, let’s at least be good hypocrites.

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  • #
    LightningCamel

    “Australia is being regarded as public enemy number one,” said Professor Doherty, who won the Nobel prize in physiology or medicine in 1996.

    “That’s a statement that’s been made to me by a couple of people – so that’s obviously a kind of buzz that’s going around the climate change community.”

    If Australia’s policies are offending “the climate change community” then we must be doing something right. The Warmunistas are desperately trying to stifle sensible policy development and do not want positive examples for others to work from. Why would we want to follow Europe down the economic plughole when India and China clearly are not going to have any part of it.

    Another nail in the credibility of Australian science and of the SMH. In the case of the SMH there are more nails than coffin but there you go.

    450

    • #
      James Murphy

      I don’t live in Australia any more, and, aside from a few stories about sporting events, minimal coverage of the ANZAC day commemorations, and a recent mention with regards to “boat people” policies after the recent Mediterranean drownings, no one cares what Australia does, or doesn’t do. For the most part, Australia is viewed as a harmless, mildly idiosyncratic, and distant country, full of dangerous animals, generally a bit of a novelty, really.

      I am 97% sure that ‘normal’ people have enough of their own trials and tribulations to keep them occupied rather than having time to be concerned with what Australia does or doesn’t do about CO2.

      260

      • #
        OriginalSteve

        Yes funny you should mention that…during my last period of work in the UK, I would coccasionally check the Oz newspapers, lament the place was run by clueless people, and go back to work. One thing about workigin europe ( if you ignore the poor energy policies ) is that you really are in the centre of everything. America may be brash an powerful, but England is just plain cool.

        60

        • #
          James Murphy

          I’ve only had holidays in the UK, but I agree with your comments! I’m based in France, and while the French do not really seem to care what other countries think of them, and, as i have said before on here, they have generally embraced their “Liberté, égalité, fraternité” motto, though some may claim that liberté has taken a few hits recently.

          They still understand that being ‘fair’ is not synonymous with everyone getting everything they want all the time. Francois Hollande is still edging towards some silly ideas regarding ‘renewables’ while various social problems are seeming to get worse though.

          20

  • #
    A C

    I am constantly astonished at how devalued to title “Professor” has become.

    Australia public enemy number one!

    Professor of Post-normal science.

    500

    • #
      Greg Cavanagh

      Enemy to whom?

      It’s plain to see that titles given to people create confusion in their minds. I know most of sane and sensible, but to the rare few, it warps their reality. Very sad to see.

      Any journalist who wanted to make fun of Mr. Doherty has surely been given a large target.

      290

      • #
        el gordo

        ‘Very sad to see.’

        Yeah, there will be many casualties in this war of words and Doherty is just one of them.

        110

        • #
          OriginalSteve

          The problem is simply that if the population is dumb enough to fall for Klimate Change, then they will hold up the people who spout it, as heros….

          I shudder to think how dumb people have become in a generation….

          40

    • #
      Dave N

      Just reinforces the notion that even accomplished academics can be extremely stupid.

      The same fools decry others when they make proclamations from anecdotal evidence, especially in physiology and medical fields.

      They have way too much irony in their diet.

      451

    • #
      Dariusz

      Since when a prof. in physiology and medicine is worth listening to about the climate? Perhaps his gas bagging falls under physiology?

      281

      • #
        James Murphy

        This is the point really, isn’t it. I don’t have much doubt that Doherty has done some fine work, and that the science Nobels are still awarded to people who deserve the recognition, after all, the evidence of their work is right there to behold, rather than that of the esoteric ‘peace’, or economics prizes.

        I admit I expect more from someone of his stature, but why should I, really? Just like Flannery, climate is not his field of expertise…

        80

      • #
        tom0mason

        Dariusz

        IMO his unqualified gas-bagging falls under the subject of Theosophy.

        60

        • #
          ROM

          I had an eye brow lifting question or two on reading Jo’s headline!

          1 / Who the hell is Peter Doherty ?

          2 / Whoever he is, he sure makes it known he is way out of his depth on climate matters?

          Questions now answered!

          Questions are still the same but are now asked within a cynical context!

          110

    • #
      Glen Michel

      At least the nutty professors of earlier tim s got out a bit and maybe did a bit of hard yards.Someone like von Humboldt- who probably was never a Professor,nonetheless an explorer and scientist(sigh).Most modern ones spend most of their time beig pixelated by their PC.s

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    • #
      Leonard Lane

      Agree AC, and their rate of decline has been astonishing. As to Nobel Prizes, when the likes of Yasser Arafat, Al Gore, and Barack Obama get the Nobel Peace Prize. we know the Peace Prize is less than useless. If the scientific Nobel Prizes are tainted with the same radical leftists and their illogical and hate filled approach, then these Nobel Prizes also mean little. Are they now all becoming post-normal science awards?

      210

    • #
      me@home

      I have recently read Doherty’s book “A Light History of Hot Air” published in 2007. I read it to expecting to be a warmist tract and to balance my reading of multiple books debunking CAGW. In fact it, mostly, is a very readable book on unrelated topics. When it strays into this area he comes across as a fairly reasonable, mild warmist. He appears to have hardened his stance recently to judge by this latest foolishness.seems

      30

      • #
        RogueElement451

        Follow the money at all times , those freebies to luxury hotels in exotic locations do not come cheap you know.

        40

  • #
    MurrayA

    “Australia is being regarded as public enemy number one,”
    Amidst all the depressing news I have heard over several days, this is the best news yet!
    May our country retreat even more from the AGW scam, and may the international guffaws get louder. It will be music to my ears!

    370

    • #
      OriginalSteve

      I get annoyed how the Left manage to whip up such effective faux outrage. I just cant fathom how they keep lying though….

      40

  • #
    manalive

    it’s a pretty extraordinary thing to do, after all the talk about the need to constrain resources …

    That’s an argument that is frequently put forward and I don’t know what it means: keep coal, gas and uranium ore etc. in the ground for the next generation or for a rainy day?
    It doesn’t make sense.

    I would worry about tariff barriers, that’s being discussed …

    Australian free trade agreements in force (DFAT): ASEAN-Australia-New Zealand FTA , Australia-Chile FTA, Australia-New Zealand Closer Economic Relations, Australia-United States FTA, Japan-Australia Economic Partnership Agreement, Korea-Australia FTA, Malaysia-Australia FTA, Singapore-Australia FTA, Thailand-Australia FTA, China-Australia FTA (concluded) and more under negotiation with India, Indonesia and the Pacific.

    80

  • #
    King Geo

    Xavier Doherty was selected in Australia’s 2015 World Cup ODI Squad and from memory only played one match with little impact and here we have a gentleman who shares the same surname, Professor Peter Doherty (a Nobel prize winner in the field of Physiology / Medicine) who seems to know very little about the field of Climate Change, yet tries to convince his fellow countrymen to ignore his Federal Govt’s “Climate Change Policy”, and instead implores that we Aussie tax payers give A$billions to the UN to propagate the “failed Theory of AGW”. Peter Doherty hang your head in shame. I have full respect for Xavier Doherty who is a quiet achiever on the cricket field, sticks to what he does best, ie play cricket, and doesn’t try and denigrate his fellow Australian citizens by releasing statements like “Australia is being regarded as public enemy number one Internationally” – what utter nonsense Peter Doherty – how un-Australian!!!

    200

  • #
    bemused

    If money wasn’t involved, I wonder whether anyone would be concerned.

    170

  • #
    LightningCamel

    With regard to China’s committment to think about, maybe doing something in 2030 I have seen a few comments along the lines of

    their population projections show their emissions would peak in 2030 anyway

    There seem to me to be a few gross factors operating in this scenario.

    —The population may max out tending to reduce the rise of energy consumption.
    —The standard of living of that population will probably still be rising tending to increase energy consumption.
    —The efficiency of energy production will be significantly increased through continued upgrade of generation infrastructure.

    Trying to synthesise all that, not to mention a host of other contributing factors, is beyond me but I wonder if any of our resident gurus would care to take a crack at an estimation of the trajectory of China’s energy output.

    60

    • #
      Graeme No. 3

      The Chinese will continue to do what they think is best for them. If their estimates are wrong in 2030 they will say so sorry, all your fault.
      Certainly they see nuclear, especially thorium, as the future, with hydro to handle variable demand. Much like Switzerland, France and Sweden, before the latter went mad. But the coal stations they are building now will operate until 2060 or beyond. They are much more efficient that the smaller old ones they are shutting down, so the rise in emissions is less.

      Personally I think their view is that by 2030 the CO2 scam will be long gone, and no-one will care less what level of CO2 they produce.

      110

    • #
    • #
      Just-A-Guy

      LightningCamel,

      On the outside they’ll be green. Some wind here, a little sun over there. On the inside they’ll be red as ever. Plenty of coal fired plants to supply the needs of the state.

      And on that note, some Blue Note. Before there were eco-watermellons, there was Watermellon Man!

      Warning! Classic jazz coming up.

      Abe

      10

      • #
        LightningCamel

        Hi Graeme No.3, Just-A-Guy et al, I completly agree with you on what the Chinese are likely to do, my interest is in what could be predicted to happen in the normal course of events, given that they will do nothing on the basis of CO2 propaganda. I am interested because, in the next few years, we will see these population and technology driven changes promoted as the result of some mythical CO2 policy. It would be useful to have the CO2 free analysis on record before the event.

        10

  • #
    pat

    am sure Doherty was well looked after in Hong Kong:

    25 April: PIK-Potsdam Press Release: “The great urban transformation“: Nobel Laureates call on cities to tackle sustainability challenge
    The distinguished scientists signed a memorandum this week in Hong Kong at the end of the three-day Nobel Laureates Symposium on Global Sustainability, convened for the first time in Asia. The Symposium was co-hosted by the Potsdam Institute for Climate Impact Research and the Asia Society Hong Kong Center…
    About the co-organizers:
    Founded in 1956 by John D. Rockefeller 3rd in New York, The Asia Society is a leading not-for-profit, non-government educational organization…
    About the sponsors and supporters that the organizers wish to thank:
    Lead Sponsors
    JPMorgan Chase & Co. is a leading global financial services firm with operations worldwide…
    The Hong Kong Jockey Club…
    Supporting Sponsors
    CLP Group: CLP Holdings Limited, a company listed on the Hong Kong Stock Exchange, is the holding company for the CLP Group, one of the largest investor-owned power businesses in Asia Pacific. Through CLP Power Hong Kong Limited, it operates a vertically-integrated electricity supply business providing a highly-reliable supply of electricity to 80% of Hong Kong’s population.
    Climate-KIC is the EU’s main climate innovation initiative…
    The Volkswagen Foundation is an independent non-profit foundation established under private law…
    https://www.pik-potsdam.de/news/press-releases/201cthe-great-urban-transformation201c-nobel-laureates-call-on-cities-to-tackle-sustainability-challenge

    JP Morgan/Asia Society seem to be joined at the hip. see the Society’s homepage from this link for future meetings etc:

    3 Dec 2014: Asia Society: J.P. Morgan – Asia Society One Step Ahead Symposium
    Crystal Room, Taj Mahal Palace Hotel, Apollo Bunder, Mumbai.
    With new leadership in place in some of Asia’s largest economies, experts believe sound macroeconomic policies and fiscal reforms could encourage stability and investor confidence, leading to inclusive and sustainable growth…
    Panel I: Building a Roadmap for Strengthening Institutions & Propelling Growth
    Sajjid Chinoy, Chief India Economist, J.P. Morgan
    • Subir Gokarn, Director of Research, Brookings India
    • Shekhar Gupta, Author, Reader & Columnist
    • Pratap Bhanu Mehta, President, Centre for Policy Research
    • Moderator: Victor Mallet, Chief, South Asia Bureau, Financial Times…
    http://www.asiasociety.org/india/events/jp-morgan-asia-society-one-step-ahead-symposium

    60

  • #
    mmxx

    My professional respect for Peter Doherty has been diminished by his seemingly unsubstantiated claims made in Hong Kong as reported in this blog.

    Populism seems to have clouded his scientific exactitude on matters to do with climate change – a discipline in which he has no greater acumen or excellence than I have.

    190

  • #

    As reported in SMH “Professor Doherty … won the Nobel prize in physiology or medicine in 1996″. My Bold. Which was it, or is he allowed to juggle the prize between subjects?

    One would have thought that with those qualifications, he should understand the benefits of Co2 and Carbon on all life on earth

    phys·i·ol·o·gy /,fɪzi’ɒlədʒi/ 
    noun: 1. the branch of the biological sciences dealing with the functioning of organisms
    2. processes and functions of an organism

    70

    • #
      Ted O'Brien.

      From memory it was the 1997 Nobel Prize for Economics which really hit the fan.

      50

      • #
        James Murphy

        I’d love to meet the person or persons who decided economics should:
        a) be called a science
        b) have a Nobel prize attributed to it
        c) be considered a more legitimate field of expertise than tarot card reading and homeopathy

        Strong words I would have.

        110

    • #
      James Murphy

      It is actually called “The Nobel Prize in Physiology or Medicine”.

      20

    • #
      Rereke Whakaaro

      When I was a little boy, I got stopped by a policeman, who gave me a piece of paper saying that my dad could be fined, because I didn’t have an audible warning device on my bike.

      As far as I know, I am still the youngest recipient of the No-Bell Prize.

      170

      • #
        RogueElement451

        I reckon I could easily get the Nobel prize for economics but would insist that it be renamed the Nobel Prize for stating the bleeding obvious 5 years after the event.
        The Economy , much like the Climate is a fairly chaotic affair and attempts to manipulate it have been undertaken since the dawn of mankind. To date I can see no long term success stories.

        30

  • #
    Iconoclast

    Half the world thinks climate scientists don’t know what they are talking about, and with the help of Doherty, soon they won’t think much of Nobel Prize winners either.

    ROTFL

    200

  • #
    aussiepete

    Buzzes are in the ear of the behearer. Professor Doherty should get out more.

    100

  • #
    King Geo

    Let’s put Peter Doherty’s “Un-Australian Comment” in context. On the one hand he is encouraging us Aussie tax payers to squander A$billions on a totally wasteful “De-carbonisation UN Program” yet on the other hand has he recommended sending funds to address on “real problems” like the “Nepal Earthquake Disaster” in which Aussies are directly affected? or the “Chile Volcanic Eruption”? or the starving millions in Africa? – no Doherty wants our hard earned tax dollars sent to the UN to fund their ridiculous “UN De-carbonisation Program”. This irrational waste of resources is exactly what Bjorn Lomborg has been saying for the past decade – maybe he should been offered his “common sense role” at UWA a lot earlier.

    150

    • #
      mikerestin

      Those Lomborg chooses to attack from his new found position will be worth watching.

      40

      • #
        King Geo

        With Michael Chaney as both UWA Chancellor and Chairman of Woodside [WEL], one suspects that Bjorn will not be too “Warmist” during his tenure at UWA but likely continue to “promote not wasting US$trillions” trying to change Earth’s climate via “large scale de-carbonisation”.

        10

  • #
    KinkyKeith

    The Climate Change Mentality has brought us lots of very Green trees, most right next to houses.

    ps. Personal Disclaimer: I love trees in the bush.

    Thank you Newcastle City Council and Ausgrid and Energy Australia.

    These wonderful trees have known life cycles at the end of which horizontal branches “shed”, roots rot and trees tend to lean towards places you don’t want them to lean.

    Many trees fell in the Storm : big surprise.

    Crashing through homes and cars and power lines and cutting off power in Newcastle for , in our case, two and a half days (back to the 1800s.)

    Many homes are STILL without power and the year is 2015.

    Back to the future? or back to the Past? ???????????????????????????????????

    It is not over till the Fat Lady Sings and believe me, when people get power back on they are going to start singing.

    They are angry!!!!!!

    In all of my 68 years I have never known a previous “blackout” longer than a few hours. Many people have been “off” for over 5 days.

    POLITICS should have no place in the Engineering requirements of ensuring power supplies.

    Some “green” commentators say this could all have been avoided if power was underground.

    Ha ha!

    Right where it would have been, and was, FLOODED.

    The world is simultaneously going mad and backwards at the same time!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    KK

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      Roy Hogue

      Some “green” commentators say this could all have been avoided if power was underground.

      Ha ha!

      Right where it would have been, and was, FLOODED.

      KK,

      I’ve no idea why power lines being underground would be green to anyone. It seems more like a matter of aesthetics to me.

      Around Southern California (and I’ve no doubt many other places) the underground power facilities have been flooded numerous times. There’s nothing like shorting out a 30 or 40 kV transformer (my guesswork) in an underground vault for fun and games. They can blow the several hundred pound manhole cover straight up in the air.

      One incident took out the power where I worked during a heavy rain. So we got the rest of the day off, a small compensation. I do credit them for fast work — we had power again the next morning. Having better drainage would have helped but around here they tend to let the streets be the storm drains.

      On the other hand, power to the tract where I live comes in on poles along a heavily traveled street. And more than one pole has been knocked down by a careless driver over the years, putting us without power for hours at a time.

      So in the end, you can’t win either way.

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      • #
        sophocles

        So there really are flying saucers! :-)

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      • #
        KinkyKeith

        Hi Roy,

        Your U/G power experience seems to have been very exciting.

        After having had the experience with our phone lines being “underground” I tend to associate the term underground with Underwater.

        Looking at John’s post below shows how complex the set up for U/G power has to be and points to why it might be a long time before the operational and costing problems are overcome.

        I certainly would like to hide the ugly power-lines but sometimes reality has to be considered.

        KK

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      • #
        Rereke Whakaaro

        One of the most spectacular sights I have ever witnessed, was watching a transformer, mounted on a platform supported by four concrete poles, start to arc-over in a very heavy rain storm.

        The density of the rain had shorted out the circuit breakers, so they didn’t function, and so the arcing started running down the poles to earth, giving off an aurora of blue light.

        Eventually one of the concrete poles started melting, and turned to liquid glass. When that happened, the whole structure started to twist, and fall down.

        Only when the transformer hit the road, did the actual supply lines break, which finally tripped the main circuit breakers at the distribution substation.

        You couldn’t pay to watch fireworks like that.

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        • #
          KinkyKeith

          WOW !

          10

        • #
          Roy Hogue

          My one experience at actually watching a high voltage short in action was nearly 20 years ago. I was driving to work, in broad daylight no less. And the wind was fierce that morning. My route took me down one stretch approximately 3/4 mile having several traffic signals and other lights and a turn at the other end.

          Shortly after turning onto that stretch I was blinded by a welder’s arc of monumental proportions down at the other end. It lasted about 3 seconds and affected my vision for nearly 30 seconds afterward, mind you, from 3/4 mile away and in daylight. If I hadn’t been moving I would have closed my eyes. But no can do behind the wheel. And of course all the signals and everything else ahead of me went dark.

          When I got to the turn there was a wire down across the pavement and a small fire burning at the base of the pole where the short had done its damage. But the really scary thing is that there were 4 children standing no more than 10 – 15 feet from that pole waiting for their school bus. Close call — in spades.

          There’s a fire station not more than 150 feet from the fire but the fire wasn’t going to get any bigger, just a patch of grass almost out and the line across the road was obviously dead, so nothing more to see and I went on after telling those kids to stay away from the downed wire. But I’ve often wondered what they thought of their “near death” experience. I know I gained a new respect for what electricity can do.

          I should have gone over to that fire station (doors all shut at that hour in the morning) and raised hell until I got someone’s attention. And I’ve kicked myself for being so cavalier ever since.

          I have no idea why the transformer on that pole didn’t come down.

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    • #
      John F. Hultquist

      An interesting discussion of underground electric, with photos and drawings — here:

      http://psc.wi.gov/thelibrary/publications/electric/electric11.pdf

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      • #
        Roy Hogue

        I’ve known about the insulation problems with underground lines. You can guess at that if you know anything about electricity. But the heat problem I wouldn’t have guessed at. I really should have stayed an EE major instead of switching to computer science. Power engineering is fascinating.

        Makes you wonder if Edison wasn’t right after all about using DC. ;-) The I^2R loss with DC wouldn’t be nearly as bad — no surface effect with DC. But then, no transformers or induction motors either. And Tesla’s best invention has been the mainstay of thousands of applications requiring constant speed and ability to adapt to changing loads without drastic speed changes.

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      • #
        Roy Hogue

        John,

        I suppose this thread is about dead. But this morning I finally got to read the entire paper you linked to. My greatest reaction to all the detail is one great big sense of appreciation for the high cost of the power infrastructure that we have in the western world and what it does for us. We tend to take such things for granted, leading to neglect of the very infrastructure we depend on so heavily.

        Growing up we lived in the San Fernando Valley north of downtown Los Angeles. Several major transmission lines come into the valley from as far away as Hoover dam and they date from the 10930s. I was recently where I had a good look at one of those lines and couldn’t help noticing how badly rusted the towers are. I don’t know what can or should be done about that or how soon it will be a risk of structural failure. But it’s a scary proposition that here in Southern California we’re getting close to the end of life for major parts of our electricity supply. And the cost of fixing it will be monumental.

        The environmentalists actively trying to block new generating plants and transmission lines just adds fuel to the eventual flames.

        Everyone wants the lights to come on when they flip the switch. But no one wants to see the hardware it takes to make that light work when they flip that switch.

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      OriginalSteve

      And underground cables get rated for lower VA capacity due to heat …

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    Ted O'Brien.

    I’d suggest that Peter Doherty may have got what he was looking for. A bit of notoriety.

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    Ursus Augustus

    I watched Peter Doherty act like what appeared to be a puppet glove for David Karoly in smearing Ian Plimer with the ‘denier’ tag some years back. It was some ideas event at Melbourne Uni broadcast by the ABC.

    I had been somewhat detached from the who AGW debate at the time, it seemed prima facie worth a look and the CO2 GHG thing was plausible in principle ( until you have a closer look of course) but I had also read one of Plimer’s books. I was a bit like a labrador watching tennis in terms of engagement.

    That stopped after seeing Doherty’s disgusting, [snip] and [snip] ‘denier’ attack via an overhead slide linking flouridation, vaccination and holocaust ‘deniers’ with those to take issue with CAGW. The fact that all three were professors at Melbourne was an eye opener to what a pack of utter [snip] academics can be too.

    I rank Peter Doherty (and Karoly and Tim Flam etc) with people like Marcus Einfeld now in terms of credit as witnesses.

    His latest act of treachery to Australia’s interest does not surprise me at all, it is about what I expect from him. If he slagged off at ANZAC Day like that (ex)SBS [snip] that would not surprise me either.

    That said I am eternally grateful for free speech and the ABC etc for letting these sort of weasels out themselves so we know who they are and need not bother to listen to them any more.

    [Ursus, this was caught in moderation for a number of words. Since you're quoting or paraphrasing someone else I'm approving it with only 4 words snipped, the ones you used to describe someone. Please remember this for the future. Jo wants less of the crass and abusive language. Thanks] AZ

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    tom0mason

    Public enemy number one according to Peter Doherty – whoever!
    Hey Australia feel proud you came first (according to the nutty Nobel prize winner).
    Potty professor PD put Australia above -
    Al Qaeda helping terrorist states,
    Soviet client states that murder opposition leaders,
    any of the many African states with a continuing history of oppression. As well as Somalia, Iran, and North Korea!
    Give me a break!
    That has to be the loopiest Professor I’ve read about this year.

    Oh really Prof. PD. The opinion of who? A once was known for something – until Jo reminded us all who you are we didn’t know! (well 97% didn’t know). So not much of the authority figure, eh?

    A little advice mate — Peter your days of fame are over, you now sound like another CAGW empty vessel desperately and noisily clanking in the changing wind.

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      mikerestin

      A little advice mate — Peter your days of fame are over, you now sound like another CAGW empty vessel desperately and noisily clanking in the changing wind.

      You may be right about the professor.
      When was the last time we heard anything from that brilliant academic Prof David Viner?

      WND reported that in 2000, David Viner, a senior research scientist at the Climatic Research Unit of the University of East Anglia was warning that in just a few years, snow would be “a very rare and exciting event” in Britain.
      “Children just aren’t going to know what snow is,” he said.

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      • #
        tom0mason

        mikerestin

        As far as I can see after Professor David Viner infamous exhortations about the future of cold, snowy winter in the UK, was to take a one way ticket to Obscurity. And he has, thankfully, stayed the ever since.

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    • #
      Rereke Whakaaro

      Have you ever noticed, that when a sports team is obviously loosing, the coach will pull of some of their better players, and put on the substitutes to give them a run?

      That seems to be what is happening with Climate … whatever.

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      • #
        crakar24

        RW,

        I did that when i coached the under 11′s in the local footy league and didnt the parents complain……

        Anyway what suprises me the most is how they communicate so quickly, they are all on message, all have the same target and all complain at the same time. This gives us a little insight as to how they operate,

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    pat

    27 April: Spiked: Brendan O’Neill: Are you now or have you ever been a climate contrarian?
    The fury over Bjorn Lomborg Down Under confirms the intolerance of greens
    Once, it was Communists who were harassed on Western campuses. Now it’s contrarians. Specifically ‘climate contrarians’. The massive stink over Bjorn Lomborg being given Australian government funding to set up a climate-change centre at the University of Western Australia (UWA) shows that the spirit of McCarthyism lives on. Only now, its targets aren’t Reds, but anti-greens: anyone who dares to criticise either the science — sorry, The Science — or the politics of climate change…READ ON
    http://www.spiked-online.com/newsite/article/are-you-now-or-have-you-ever-been-a-climate-contrarian/16913

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    Dave in the states

    I love you Aussies! I thank God that the Aussies are currently leading the way toward more logic and reason in public policy on climate.

    Lord knows we can’t with our current leadership.

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    John Nicol

    Professor Doherty has certainly sullied his reputation. His Nobel prize in Medicine is a great honour, but even that gives him no understanding of the physics of carbon dioxide and its likely effect on the atmosphere. This he has clearly demonstrated in few, careless and quite meaningless words.
    John Nicol

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    Buffalo Soldier

    Public enemy #196 is Nepal. Australia’s death toll is not anything. Rise and shine Peter Doherty.

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    mikerestin

    The Nobel prize hit rock bottom when Al Gore and Obama each got one.
    I don’t think either of them has contributed anything towards peace, the peace process, saving the world…or even saving a single whale.

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    Roy Hogue

    …soon they won’t think much of Nobel Prize winners either.

    I’m afraid the credibility of Nobel Prize winners is already half shot after Obama won, excuse me, was tossed the peace prize for free by a fawning committee for no accomplishment toward peace anywhere, right up to this very day.

    With judgment like that, how can we have confidence that judgment is any better in the other categories? I can only speak for myself but it’s not exactly inspiring me to look up to Nobel Prize winners. I can only hope the judges in the other categories know a lot more about their subjects than the the Peace Prize committee knows about peace.

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    • #
      tom0mason

      Roy Hogue

      So enraptured with the idea of gaining the Nobel prize was Peter Doherty that he wrote a book on it.
      A review says this of it -

      “Doherty offers a rare, insider’s look at the realities of being a research scientist. He lucidly explains his own scientific work and how research projects are selected, funded, and organized; the major problems science is trying to solve; and the rewards and pitfalls of a career in scientific research. For Doherty, science still plays an important role in improving the world, and he argues that scientists need to do a better job of making their work more accessible to the public.

      Throughout the book, Doherty explores the stories of past Nobel winners and considers some of the crucial scientific debates of our time, including the safety of genetically modified foods and the tensions between science and religion. He concludes with some “tips” on how to win a Nobel Prize, including advice on being persistent, generous, and culturally aware, and he stresses the value of evidence. The Beginner’s Guide to Winning the Noble Prize is essential reading for anyone interested in a career in science.”

      (My enbolding)
      From: http://eandata.com/lookup/9780231138970/

      So science needs to be based on evidence and explanatory, with scientists to do the explaining. No beef with that — except what the Professor says is famously not done in the matter of ‘climate change’ (aka AGW or CAGW).

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    Richard Quigley

    What complete and utter rubbish for a man of such stature to be uttering.

    I, for one, am astounded that he is allowed out unsupervised!

    It is clear that everybody with any sort of climate credibility knows, without a shadow of a doubt, that the absolutely most terrible climate criminals in the known universe are the CANADIANS under the jackboot of the Harper government.

    So let us have no more of this Chesty Bond beating nonsense from you lot down under!

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    • #
      PeterK

      Richard: Say what? I think Harper has the right attitude. Not one mention about climate change in last weeks federal budget. So yeah, I guess we Canadians are worse than the Australians. But I’m okay with that!

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    • #
      Sane Canadian

      Buying into the anti-harper propaganda, are you? Flaky lizzy may will love you.

      [Again, I'm allowing this. But it must end here. You can't drag this thread into a name calling contest.] AZ

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  • #
    Mark A

    I happen to be in Austria not Australia and arrived here via Russia, Poland, Hungary and spent time in Switzerland and Germany. Admittedly I do not move in professorial circles but still, so far in two months I have not heard the words “Climate change” once. As to Australia? Sorry to say 99.99999% of peeps have no idea where it is let alone what we do about CC.
    (OK 99.999% is overdoing it a bit but you get my drift)

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      Rereke Whakaaro

      Australia is that big appendage to the left of New Zealand, if you are in any doubt.

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        Greg Cavanagh

        New Zealand; isn’t that somewhere west of England where hobits and dragons live?

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        ROM

        I understand that have become known as the” West Island” because so many damn Kiwis have managed to get across the “ditch” somehow!.
        .
        :-)

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    Kaboom

    The US has been seen as the enemy #1 by pretty much every monarchy in the world and look how many of those are left.

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      Sane Canadian

      Yup, Take a look to the north of the US, Canada is a Constitutional Monarchy which exists as the first Canadians were Crown Loyalists who REFUSED to buy into the republican experiment. In the war of 1812, the US thought it was a “simple matter of marching” and got it’s collective [snip] handed to it. Only the Treaty of Ghent left the US with its prewar borders. The US is hardly the great country its drum banging [snip] think it is. Just look at their dynastic ambitions and coronations held every four years.

      [This is just a finger pointing contest. I'm allowing it one time, you get to say your opinion. But this must be the end of it.] AZ

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  • #
    Doug Proctor

    I really liked the term used for the 2015 Paris climate talks: “last best chance”. Which means the chances of not having a meltdown/frydown are still “better chances” down to “good chances”, “decent chances”, “not-bad-at-all-chances” etc. The not-quite-the-end-of-the-world climate change catastrophe can continue all the way to 2100 without ever violating the catastrophe-in-making narrative.

    There is no time at which the CAGW story will be inappropriate.

    The witches are there, they are just quiet these recent decades because we are watching.

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    sophocles

    Many and varied are the ways for a country to become a global laughing stock. NZ has a Prime Minister who just can’t resist long hair tied back in a pony tail, especially female long hair so tied back. He’s got to tug it.

    … it’s just horsing around …

    Well, even horses are retired. If you really want to be laughed at, we could retire him to a sinecure such as Premier of Queensland. Got a likely opening? :-)

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  • #
    Ruairi

    Though some have credentials galore,
    And university posts by the score,
    Yet on climate; so green,
    Being clueless I mean,
    That they need to wise up and learn more.

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  • #
    nfw

    A couple of people? That would be what, 97%?

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  • #
    Another Ian

    “But God’s on our side”

    “Why God is not a warmist.”

    James Delingpole

    http://www.breitbart.com/big-government/2015/04/27/why-god-is-not-a-warmist/

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    NZPete

    Peter Doherty – has become a laughing stock by making such banal pronouncements. He debases the value of the Nobel Laureate. Other title holders should be appalled. This is my opinion and I want to state it.

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    • #
      Erny72

      Jo says: “…with the help of Doherty, soon they won’t think much of Nobel Prize winners either.”
      NZ Pete says: “…Other title holders should be appalled…”

      I say: the Nobel peace politics prize is already a joke now, poeple don’t think anything of popularity prize winners and it’s some of the recent title holders who are probably too full of themselves to be appalled by this [snip] comments (or embarrassed for winning prizes they don’t deserve) that make it the joke.
      Obummer won his ‘peace’ prize for winning an election.
      The EUssr won a ‘peace’ price for bankrupting a continent.
      IPeCaC won a ‘peace’ prize for [snip].

      If I was awarded a Nobel prize, for not flicking [snip] at an environmental protest march after [snip] for example, I would be worried about what I’d become.

      [You were snipped for being over the line where criticism becomes crass, unacceptable language. Your position could be stated better and still make your point.] AZ

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    RB

    I think the world’s view of Australia was tainted more by that underarm delivery 35 years ago.

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    Richard

    As a vet, he’s sure to be an expert on climate.

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    Bribiejohn

    Since when does a veterinarian/medical researcher have credibility to make pronouncements regarding Australia’s climate matters?

    It has become fashionable for anyone who wants media attention to wax eloquent on that of which they know very little!

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    • #
      el gordo

      ‘…to wax eloquent on that of which they know very little!’

      This is the extraordinary power of propaganda in the 21st century, it scoops up people in all walks of life, the high and mighty along with ordinary folk.

      Half the population of the Western World has been brainwashed into believing a harmless trace gas will bring destruction to the planet. To counter people like Doherty we need Lomborg to change sides and articulate scientific reasoning without the emotional baggage of the warmists.

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      Rereke Whakaaro

      It has become fashionable for anyone who wants media attention to wax eloquent on that of which they know very little!

      If that were true, I should be world famous by now. :-)

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    TdeF

    Peter Doherty is a famous Australian medical scientist, “His work mainly focuses on the immune system and together with Zinkernagel he discovered how T cells recognise and target their antigens.” Australians have every reason to be very proud of his achievements in medical research. You can be certain he means well. Great, but what does that have to do with CO2 or the weather or clouds or anything else?

    Why is no one pushing man made Global Warming actually qualified in meteorology? Or in the case of dead wombat specialist Tim Flannery and ex Vice President Al Gore, lacking any tertiary training in any physical sciences like chemistry, mathematics, physics or computing and certainly not meteorology? Why are so many of them BAs and BEc, not scientists? Who made them experts? Oh, they did.

    So is Man Made Global Warming actually the new post rationalist approach to science, consensus science?
    No, it is the science of the mob, an Australian word for a large group of kangaroos who hop together and in the words of Nino Cullotta, “they’re a weird mob”.

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  • #
    Steve McDonald

    A captive audience.

    People will pay for that.

    To be paid handsomely to travel around the world with free every thing to have one is a wildest dream that cannot be resisted.

    It’s worth gambling your integrity for.

    Physics and psychology, the factors that matter in this debate.

    One is about everything that moves and why.

    The other is what moves people to do what they do and why.

    Many of our scientists and journalists have become a part of the Hollywood culture.

    Look at me and want me, love me,but most of all need me.

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      TdeF

      You get a perversity in the press too. Footballers asked about politics. Musicians asked about politics. Politicians asked about science. Actors asked about human rights. Actors passing judgement on morality and politicians as today. People who live in a bubble being asked about a world they do not inhabit, partly because it makes for interesting news and partly because they have fame. Dr. Karl for example accepting $250K for fronting the government’s intergenerational report and then claiming he had no idea the government’s ideas on Climate Change was different to his own. How long would it have taken for him to check the one area of conflict?

      You have to think that many people chase fame, to be recognized in public, to be admired, to be the centre of attention from strangers. Then claim they hate the lack of privacy. Then they start to believe their own image, that they are super people in all fields, to whose opinions everyone should listen and whose ideas everyone should follow. Twenty years after his Nobel prize, Peter Doherty may be suffering from attention deficit disorder. I

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      • #
        ROM

        TdeF @ # 45.1

        You have to think that many people chase fame, to be recognized in public, to be admired, to be the centre of attention from strangers. Then claim they hate the lack of privacy. Then they start to believe their own image, that they are super people in all fields, to whose opinions everyone should listen and whose ideas everyone should follow. Twenty years after his Nobel prize, Peter Doherty may be suffering from attention deficit disorder.

        .

        Thats probably as concise a thumbnail sketch of the psychology as I have seen that surrounds so many prominent persons who have become so wrapped in their own cleverness and importance that they fail utterly to realise just how self centred and bombastic and ignorant their pronouncements sound on subjects of which they quite clearly demonstrate by their own words they really haven’t got a clue about and on which they are way out of their very shallow depth.

        There is a very fine line between Fame and Notoriety.

        When the Famous cross that fine line to Notoriety there is rarely any coming back, something I suspect that Peter Doherty is about to discover in the times ahead.

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  • #
    pat

    ***Met Office Nicola Maxey’s response is too cute: “The weather has started to change”…

    27 April 2015: UK Independent: Kashmira Gander/PA: UK weather: Arctic blast bringing snow, sleet and gale force winds likely to linger over May Bank Holiday weekend
    The glorious spring sunshine has come to an abrupt end in some parts of the country, due to an Arctic blast which could make for a wintry May bank holiday weekend for some.
    The drop in temperature has ushered in snow and sleet, across swathes of the UK. Northern Ireland was forced to endure one of the coldest April nights on record on Sunday night, as the mercury fell to a wintry -8C.
    Drivers are being warned to take care on potentially hazardous roads, as showers of sleet and snow hit Scotland and Northern Ireland, before gripping northern parts of England, Wales, and the east coast…
    ***Met Office spokeswoman Nicola Maxey, explained: “The weather has started to change and it is coming from the Arctic…
    http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/uk-weather-arctic-blast-bringing-snow-sleet-and-gale-force-winds-likely-to-linger-over-may-bank-holiday-weekend-10207357.html#

    when the Independent reports snow events such as the above, why don’t they ask David Viner for an explanation?

    20 March 2000: UK Independent: Charles Onians: Snowfalls are now just a thing of the past
    Global warming, the heating of the atmosphere by increased amounts of industrial gases, is now accepted as a reality by the international community…
    According to Dr David Viner, a senior research scientist at the climatic research unit (CRU) of the University of East Anglia,within a few years winter snowfall will become “a very rare and exciting event”.
    “Children just aren’t going to know what snow is,” he said…
    http://www.independent.co.uk/environment/snowfalls-are-now-just-a-thing-of-the-past-724017.html

    u have to love Viner’s LinkedIn page, which describes him as “Exceptionally Experienced International Climate Change Expert: Science, Impacts, Resilience, Adaptation and Mitigation”.

    humility is not a strong point for the CAGW crowd.

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    pat

    writer Joe Haynes can’t find anyone who thinks CAGW is a joke!

    24 April: KTBS-TV: Joe Haynes: Record snow in Boston during Global Warming!?
    A total of 110.6 inches of snow fell which shattered their all time record by 3 inches! A normal winter usually delivers just under 50 inches (Figure 1)!
    Bean town also tore through other snow records including 94.4 inches in one month and 37 inches on the ground at one time (Figure 2)!
    As for record cold, Boston actually never warmed above 40 degrees for 7 straight weeks from late January through early March! There were also 28 consecutive days with lows below 20 degrees from late January through most of February which kept the record snow pack intact (Figure 3).
    So, with all of this record setting winter weather in Boston, would you believe that NOAA insists that Global Warming is still happening! Here’s what a few ArkLaTex (a U.S. socio-economic region where Arkansas, Louisiana, Texas, and Oklahoma intersect) residents think about the controversial subject:
    Here’s Megan Crew’s thoughts: “Just because it’s getting colder here doesn’t mean it’s not getting warmer in the polar caps and everywhere else…it’s warming up…it’s climate change…things are changing…studies prove that.”
    Shane Tom’s reaction: “I believe it does exist…if you look over the past years, you can see a steady increase in the warming of the weather…I think it still increasing just as scientist predicted.”
    And ***Brandon Fountain of Shreveport thinks that humans have a hand in our warming planet: “Oh yea…yea…we are definitely responsible…everything we are doing to this earth with the gases like you said and the power plants…we’re definitely responsible.”
    NOAA scientist(s) agree and their temperature data shows that 2014 was globally the hottest year ever or since their record keeping began in 1880 (Figure 4)!…
    http://www.ktbs.com/story/28887211/record-snow-in-boston-during-global-warming

    surely this is Joe Haynes’ Brandon Fountain of Shreveport!

    ***LinkedIn: Brandon Fountain, Shreveport
    Video Editor/Photographer at KTBS-TV
    https://www.linkedin.com/pub/brandon-fountain/9a/226/17b

    Haynes doesn’t give any precise details to help find the other two he quotes, Megan Crew & Shane Tom, so attempts to find anything on them were futile.

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    Robdel

    He has tainted his reputation by that remark. A great shame.

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    Bob in Castlemaine

    Half the world thinks climate scientists don’t know what they are talking about, and with the help of Doherty, soon they won’t think much of Nobel Prize winners either.

    Jo I get the impression that many folks don’t believe the Nobel Prize has much credibility left to lose anyway?

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      tom0mason

      Bob in Castlemaine,

      “I get the impression that many folks don’t believe the Nobel Prize has much credibility left to lose anyway?”

      Well Bob recent nominations for Nobel Peace Prize winners certainly undermine credibility.

      The debasement of the Nobel Peace prize -

      Forget not that in 1994 Nobel Peace Prize was awarded jointly to Yasser Arafat, Shimon Peres and Yitzhak Rabin “for their efforts to create peace in the Middle East”.
      Yep, all worked for peace. Fulfilled promises — no!.

      In 2009, U.S. President Barack Obama received the Nobel Peace Prize only ninety days after taking office—too short a time for the Nobel selection committee to conduct anything like a thorough investigation of him as a candidate.
      Since receiving the Nobel Peace Prize, Obama escalated the war in Afghanistan, expanded the use of drone strikes world wide, used Cruise Missiles to negotiate Gadhafi’s departure from Libya, sent a military aid team to the Central African Republic, authorized and – according to his supporters – personally directed the U.S. military incursion into Pakistan to kill the criminal and terrorist Osama Bin Laden.
      At this rate US lead peace inituatives could be the major cause of death worldwide!

      Also in 2014 Russian President Vladimir Putin was nominated for the 2014 Nobel Peace Prize however a little matter of a crisis in the Ukraine put paid to that.

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  • #
    pat

    27 April: Steven Goddard: Rumors Of The Demise Of Climate Science Have Not Been Exaggerated
    Six years ago, climate experts announced the end of multi-year ice in the Arctic.
    Multiyear Arctic ice is effectively gone: expert
    By David Ljunggren
    OTTAWA | Thu Oct 29, 2009 12:01pm EDT
    (Reuters) – The multiyear ice covering the Arctic Ocean has effectively vanished, a startling development that will make it easier to open up polar shipping routes, an Arctic expert said on Thursday…
    Multi-year ice now covers about half of the Arctic Basin…
    comment by higley7: I checked out how often the north was open to shipping, looking up all the ship passages on record that I could find. The route was open 72 of the last 112 years, which means that is open more than it is closed. Open 64% of the time! What novices! Bad science and lies are so easy to disprove.
    https://stevengoddard.wordpress.com/2015/04/27/rumors-of-the-demise-of-climate-science-have-not-been-exaggerated/

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    tom0mason

    The good professor is only joining the historic, long line of disreputable types that have shouted alarm about the weather for many a long year.
    Even the Bible has many weather references, many of destruction or punishment, some of comfort and stability, showing that within the human conscience lies an old guilt about climate changing.

    In these more modern times we’ve these to muse over…

    Is our climate changing? The succession of temperate summers and open winters through several years, culminating last winter in the almost total failure of the ice crop throughout the valley of the Hudson, makes the question pertinent. The older inhabitants tell us that the Winters are not as cold now as when they were young, and we have all observed a marked diminution of the average cold even in this last decade. – New York Times June 23, 1890
    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
    ¯
    The question is again being discussed whether recent and long-continued observations do not point to the advent of a second glacial period, when the countries now basking in the fostering warmth of a tropical sun will ultimately give way to the perennial frost and snow of the polar regions – New York Times – February 24, 1895,
    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
    ¯
    The Oceanographic observations have, however, been even more interesting. Ice conditions were exceptional. In fact, so little ice has never been noted. The expedition all but established a record….Journal of the Royal Meteorological Society – January 1905
    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
    ¯
    “Fifth ice age is on the way…..Human race will have to fight for its existence against cold.” – Los Angles Times October 23, 1912
    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
    ¯
    The Arctic ocean is warming up, icebergs are growing scarcer and in some places the seals are finding the water too hot…. Reports from fishermen, seal hunters and explorers, he declared, all point to a radical change in climate conditions and hitherto unheard-of temperatures in the Arctic zone… Great masses of ice have been replaced by moraines of earth and stones, the report continued, while at many points well known glaciers have entirely disappeared. Very few seals and no white fish are found in the eastern Arctic, while vast shoals of herring and smelts, which have never before ventured so far north, are being encountered in the old seal fishing grounds. – Washington Post 11/2/1922
    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
    ¯
    Scientist says Arctic ice will wipe out Canada, Professor Gregory of Yale University stated that “another world ice-epoch is due.” He was the American representative to the Pan-Pacific Science Congress and warned that North America would disappear as far south as the Great Lakes, and huge parts of Asia and Europe would be “wiped out.” – Chicago Tribune August 9, 1923
    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
    ¯
    The discoveries of changes in the sun’s heat and southward advance of glaciers in recent years have given rise to the conjectures of the possible advent of a new ice age – Time Magazine 9/10/1923
    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
    ¯
    America in longest warm spell since 1776; temperature line records a 25 year rise – New York Times 3/27/1933

    “Gaffers who claim that winters were harder when they were boys are quite right…weather men have no doubt that the world at least for the time being is growing warmer.” – Time Magazine Jan. 2 1939
    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
    ¯
    More than eighteen years of observing the fluctuations of Arctic weather conditions in the fifty-eight Soviet scientific stations in the Far North….lead Russian meteorologists to a forecast of warmer winters and hotter summers for the North and South Poles. They believe that the earth is entering a new cycle of warmer weather. A series of curious discoveries have been announced in support of this theory. It has been noted that year by year, for the past two decades, the fringe of the Polar icepack has been creeping northward in the Barents Sea. As compared with the year 1900, the total ice surface of this body of water has decreased by twenty per cent. Various expeditions have discovered that warmth-loving species of fish have migrated in great shoals to waters farther north than they had ever been seen before..Our generation is living in a period when remarkable changes are taking place almost everywhere throughout the world. – Examiner April 12, 1939

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  • #
    TdeF

    Both Napoleon in 1812 and Hitler in 1942 were caught by the belief that the winters would be milder. Both armies froze to death in the Russian winter. One of the problems of a belief in the certainty of averages. It only takes one supercold winter to reset the average.

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    • #
      tom0mason

      TdeF,

      Have you noted that towards the end WWII, Europe took to becoming very cold.

      Could all the furious industrial production with its massive rise in atmospheric pollution, coupled to the large conflagrations, atmospheric explosions and the almost continuous movement of Naval vessels churning the seas, help this cold spell develop?

      Oddly soon after the Allies intensified the conflict in the Far-East and around Japan, the weather turned cold, especially so in China.

      Coincidence, cause or correlation?

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      • #
        TdeF

        Hardly explains Napoleon’s disaster. He only had horses.

        No, the subliminal idea of the warmists is that every year should be the same as the previous or heads will roll. In fact most people can recognize decades in their lives when the summers were warmer or the winters colder, so this view that there are no big cycles in the weather is just wrong.

        The 11 year cycle in Egypt was so well known that they planned for it, replacing the British 1 year dam at Aswan with the Nasser 10 year dam. Egyptians kept records since 600AD, so they saw it. This in turn relates to variations South of Egypt, in the Rift Valley in the middle of Africa, so Egypt was like a weather device, all measured with the height of a single river.

        However in 1988, the UN decided that the sky was suddenly falling and we should all pay. We have worn the consequences ever since, even though for more than half that time, we have not seen any global warming. You have to wonder that for the homogenizing of temperatures, the world is not actually cooling. It is fantastic though to read of how the oceans have ‘stolen’ the heat, although by what miracle of science heat flows from cold to hot is surely beyond everyone. Still, you have to say something. Decadic oscillation. Natural cycles. Natural variability. Too bad none of these vague explanations were rolled out in 1988. Now climate scientists just live in hope for warming to ‘resume’.

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      • #
        Glen Michel

        I did mention this a couple of years back.Burning oil and tanks(motorised vehicles) ships and aircraft.I would venture that mans activities undoubtedly issued vast amounts of particlulate into the atmosphere and led to a downtick in the earths temperature.THe signal is there.

        20

        • #
          tom0mason

          Glen Michel

          And as you probably already know, for the workings of clouds — and therefore a lot of below the tropopause temperature variations — particulates are very important.
          At the right temperature and humidity particulates often hold the balance as to when and where it will rain. And where it rains is when the temperature changes swiftly; changing from the ground-level right up to the troposphere.

          20

    • #
      Bill

      NO, both thought that their respective Russian campaigns would be SHORT and did not plan for winter. The Russians, however, used winter to their advantage.

      10

  • #
    pat

    remember The Australian deleted an article on Bjorn Lomborg last week? i commented about it on jo’s “it’s always Dark Sky”…thread as follows:

    - it’s always a dark day week in the MSM. this has already been linked on a number of websites, but the page appears to have been removed:

    Lomborg’s research rating below par
    The Australian‎ – 17 hours ago
    The Danish researcher Bjorn Lomborg has a research impact rating — or h-index — equivalent to a junior academic and only seven of his 28 have been cited…

    404 error – Sorry your page could not be found
    http://www.theaustralian.com.au/higher-education/lomborgs-research-rating-below-par/story-e6frgcjx-1227315817232 -

    —-

    ABC’s Media Watch have covered it last nite apparently:

    27 April: ABC Media Watch: Staying tribal on Bjorn Lomborg
    The media has followed tribal lines in its coverage of the climate contrarian Bjorn Lomborg and his new Consensus Centre…
    Last week, Professor Sarah Dunlop, who heads the School of Animal Biology, wrote to university managers to say: BLAH BLAH
    In a long and detailed critique, posted on a university Facebook page, Professor Dunlop argued that Dr Lomborg’s academic achievements fall way short of what the university normally requires for such a post…
    Dunlop’s post was soon deleted.
    But not before The Australian’s Higher Education correspondent Julie Hare had re-published the attack in The Australian online…
    Now we can’t actually show you Julie Hare’s original story, because it too was rapidly deleted.
    So why was it killed?…READ ON
    http://www.abc.net.au/mediawatch/transcripts/s4224887.htm

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    pat

    28 April: ABC AM: No emissions by 2040 – and it can be done without mass job losses: Milne
    MICHAEL BRISSENDEN: The Australian Greens are pushing for net-zero pollution emissions by 2040.
    In a speech in Sydney last night Greens Leader Christine Milne argued that greenhouse gas emissions proposed recently by the independent Climate Change Authority were too weak…
    CHRISTINE MILNE: Well it would be a major driver actually of huge economic activity. If you just imagine what we would do if we rolled out 100 per cent renewable energy by 2030, that is a massive build around the country in solar, in wind, big research efforts around our universities. So you would see a whole massive capacity building on that.
    Retro-fitting buildings so that they’re more energy efficient, borrowing money at very low interest rates and investing in public transport; imagine if we had our cities linked with high speed rail. Imagine if we had urban metro – these are really exciting propositions and they could be delivered.
    And of course you could shut down old coal fired power stations right now and not have any impact on energy security…
    http://www.abc.net.au/am/content/2015/s4224950.htm

    from RenewEconomy 27 April:

    Greens call for emissions target of zero-net pollution by 2040
    Greens leader Christine Milne announced the ambitious targets in a speech delivered to the Sydney Environment Institute at Sydney University on Monday night…
    In her speech, Milne said getting to zero emissions in the not-too distant future is achievable for Australia, and “not the tale of woe, laden with costs, lost-jobs and heartache as the Abbott government and mining industry would have us all believe.
    “Rapidly decarbonising our society is an opportunity to address what we don’t like about the way we live and replace it with what we want, with the jobs to go with it, it is the greatest enabling wake-up call I can imagine.”…

    you want BALANCE in a CAGW policy debate? LOL.

    May 2014: Sydney Environment Institute: CLIMATE PROOFING YOUR INVESTMENTS: MOVING FUNDS OUT OF FOSSIL FUELS
    The Balanced Enterprise Research Network, in association with 350.org, Market Forces and the Australia Institute, is pleased to host a panel discussion on the potential for fossil free investment…
    Panellists will include:
    Tim Buckley, Institute for Energy Economics and Financial Analysis
    Tim has 25 years of financial markets experience, having spent the majority of this time as a top-rated equities research analyst in Australia, with some time covering global and Asian equity markets. Tim is co-founder and managing director of Arkx Investment Management, an investor in leading global-listed clean energy companies. Additionally, Arkx consults in the low carbon finance sector, providing an international perspective into the Australian market. Tim was with Citigroup for 17 years, culminating in his role as Managing Director and Head of Australasian Equity Research for the last six years…
    Trevor Thomas, EthInvest
    Trevor joined Ethinvest in 1997 having just returned from 6 years in South America working in economic development. Prior to that he was employed as an economist with one of Australia’s major banks and AP Dow Jones Telerate. Trevor graduated in Economics at Sydney University and has an MBA from Eastern University in Philadelphia…
    The event will be introduced by Professor Christopher Wright, Leader of the Balanced Enterprise Research Network and Charlie Wood of 350.org.
    This event has now passed. To watch video of the panel, click here…
    http://sydney.edu.au/environment-institute/events/climate-proofing-your-investments-moving-funds-out-of-fossil-fuels/

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    • #
      el gordo

      ‘…imagine if we had our cities linked with high speed rail.’

      Its probably the only thing Abbott and Milne agree upon.

      10

  • #
    Seth

    You too, could waffle on about hobbling our economy in the quest for international popularity.

    I don’t think tax hobbles an economy. It pays for government services: Health, Education, Welfare, Transport. They’re good.

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    • #
      Dennis

      The problem with tax is that too few pay enough tax to cover the government services they use. About 50 per cent of Australian income taxpayers do not pay their own way and are subsidised by higher income taxpayers and company taxes. The welfare budget bill amounts to 34 per cent of total budget spending. Former treasurer Peter Costello claims today in the Daily Telegraph that around 70 per cent of Australians are not fully self supporting and are assisted directly or indirectly with subsidies. Yet the leftists claim that “the wealthy”, “big business” and “the banks” are ripping people off. I have read internet comments suggesting that “the rich” are wealthy because of the money spent by lower income people and welfare recipients and that they are being ripped off. The disconnect with reality is a serious problem. No wonder Labor Greens lies are believed by too many voters.

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      • #
        Dennis

        Another point regarding tax is what public servants cost the private sector taxpayers. Public servants pay taxes but not really, they return part of their earnings to the governments, not new tax revenue. Therefore the more public servants employed who do not have essential work to do the greater the drain on tax revenue with no impact on the economy apart from the economic stimulus their spending represents, but that is not new money from wealth creation private enterprise. Yet the public service has a significant impact on private sector businesses adding to their costs and in Australia creating an unfavourable environment for increasing economic prosperity.

        Noting that building larger partisan public services is the Labor way when in power.

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        • #
          crakar24

          Dennis,

          There is a flaw in your theory, for a government to function you need a public service, you could contract the work out to some employment agency but the government would still pay their wages so no change there. Without a public service how would society function? Would we use volunteers?

          Cheers

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          • #

            Without a public service how would society function? Would we use volunteers?

            Eactly how it does in small societies. And in special-interest organizations within larger “structured” society. Self-organization for specific tasks that are perceived to be worthwhile by enough people to make it happen. Contributions volunteered by members of society, in money, materials and/or labour.

            Entrepreneurs take risks and with the “permission” of society, built roads, bridges and railways; making money via tolls to compensate them for taking the risk. Lotteries were run to help raise funds for “public works”. People were not forced to buy tickets.

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            • #
              crakar24

              Oh ok so when i go to pay my rego the office will either be closed due to lack of manning or run by a bunch of volunteers?

              What about water in SA, it is a government enterprise so….what we sack all of the workers there and rely on volunteers?

              State run electrical power generation?

              Hospitals?

              Ambo’s?

              Garbage collection?

              and the list goes on and on and on.

              I suspect none of you have thought this through

              cheers

              10

              • #
                Rereke Whakaaro

                Garbage collection in Wellington and the separate recyclable collection, are both performed by private enterprise. I think the same applies in Auckland, and in many other parts of New Zealand.

                Our Ambulance service is also run by a registered charity, so it is “free”, except that many people donate money each year, for its upkeep, and we also buy raffle tickets when they need a new Ambulance. They often sell the old ones at auction, at a profit, because they make good motorised caravans.

                Electricity is state owned, in that sense that the Government owns the majority, of the shares, but the companies are run as going concerns, with all of the commercial incentives that you would expect to see in the private sector. Even the meter reading companies are privately owned, which is why they have installed a pseudo mobile phone in each meter box, so they can call it up and get the current reading, whenever they like.

                Public Services in New Zealand have shrunk to setting policy, monitoring the private providers, and providing services that cannot be outsourced, such as maintaining the National Archives, Defence, Treasury, and other Core Government functions.

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              • #

                I guess that you need to travel more, crackar24.

                Meanwhile, I’m practicing flattening my vowles to blend into the crowd in NZ, eh?

                10

              • #

                from wikipedia re NZ ambos

                Funding occurs by means of billing part-charges for medical callouts (except Wellington Free) and charitable funding such as donations, bequests and corporate sponsorship to supplement Government funding. In recent years, the government has begun to examine more sustainable funding for ambulance services.[2] however there is still significant exertion within the sector that the level of funding provided falls far below what is required to cover the actual cost of service delivery

                00

              • #
                crakar24

                Travel more Bernd? Really?

                Ok what about a defence force? They get paid by the government and pay taxes so therefore qualify under Dennis’s idea so we get rid of them?

                The ambo info is actually quite good, when i worked in NZ i never knew if i ever needed an ambo i would be relying on a bunch of volunteers thank God i never needed one. Also RW is incorrect re garbage collection in Oz. Garbage collection is sub contracted by councils, councils dont produce a product and rely soley on tax revenue, so once again garbage collection qualifies under the ideas of Dennis.

                Whilst RW’s comments are generally good he may perhaps have erred at this time.

                To Tom,

                What do you believe Gov is for and what it should provide?

                00

              • #
                Rereke Whakaaro

                I am quite happy to admit that I erred. That is what happens when you butt into a conversation without reading the whole thread. Mea culpa, and I apologise.

                00

          • #
            tom0mason

            crakar24
            It all depends what you believe government is for and what it should provide.

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  • #
    Andrew

    Couple of my mates reckon Doherty is a clown

    50

  • #
    pat

    ***the best Jason/Bloomberg can come up with about John Hewson is that he once “employed Abbott”. how offensive is that?

    27 April: Bloomberg: Jason Scott: Abbott’s Maligned Carbon-Cut Measures Face French Scrutiny
    Prime Minister Tony Abbott may get a taste of mounting international pressure for Australia to curb its carbon emissions when he meets France’s President Francois Hollande in Paris…
    ***“Abbott’s going to have to move toward making some significant emission-reduction commitments because that’s where international opinion is heading,” said economist and former Liberal Party leader John Hewson, who ***employed Abbott as his press secretary in the early 1990s. “We can’t stay a laggard.”…
    His government is seeking to cut Australia’s renewable energy target, which requires electricity retailers to buy certificates from wind and solar farms or generate clean power themselves…
    General Electric Co., the largest U.S. turbine maker, said an agreement is critical to restore investor confidence in the industry.
    A deal would “unleash some A$10 billion of investment for Australia,” said Jason Willoughby, managing director of sales and project finance at GE’s Australian unit. “Such engagement is manifestly in Australia’s national interest.”…
    Abbott is under pressure even from Australia’s closest allies. President Barack Obama…
    Rejecting international criticism, Hunt said the European Union’s Emissions Trading System “hasn’t gone smoothly” and noted the U.S. had missed its 2010 targets.
    “We’ve achieved our emissions reduction targets when many other countries haven’t gone close,” Hunt said. “It’s important that we draw the distinction between pledges and achievements” in reducing greenhouse gases.
    http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2015-04-26/abbott-s-maligned-climate-change-measures-face-french-scrutiny

    some of Hewson’s background that Bloomberg’s Jason Scott could have used to describe his CAGW areas of interests:

    Wikipedia: John Hewson
    Hewson was elected at the 1987 election to the House of Representatives for the affluent Sydney electorate of Wentworth (now held by the Minister for Goldman Sachs, Malcolm Turnbull)…
    In his writings he demonstrated an increasing focus on corporate social and environmental responsibility. In 2003-4 he chaired a community advisory committee to RepuTex, a new companthat conducts assessments of companies on these criteria, as well as issuing an annual public listing of Australia’s top 100 companies on these criteria…
    Since circa 2005, Hewson has been a member of the Trilateral Commission…
    He is Chairman of General Security Australia Insurance Brokers Pty Ltd…
    In December 2012, Hewson was appointed as a non-executive director of Larus Energy, an oil and gas company developing operations in Papua New Guinea…
    Hewson has repeatedly appeared in television interviews and on political panels and has been a regular columnist for the Australian Financial Review (published by CAGW-infested Fairfax) since 2004…
    In 2011, he and former Liberal prime minister Malcolm Fraser were among 140 Australian community leaders who pledged support for an emissions trading scheme, despite the fact the Coalition and its leader Tony Abbott (***Hewson’s former Press Secretary) oppose the Carbon tax…
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Hewson

    ***NOTE WIKIPEDIA BRING UP THE FACT ABBOTT WAS “HEWSON’S FORMER PRESS SECRETARY”.

    50

  • #
    pat

    CAGW darling Shell upsets their friends a little by acting out of self-interest!

    27 April: Guardian: Shell lobbied to undermine EU renewables targets, documents reveal
    Weak renewable energy goals for 2030 originated with Shell pitch for gas as a key technology for Europe to cut its carbon emissions in an affordable way
    by Arthur Neslen in Brussels
    Shell successfully lobbied to undermine European renewable energy targets ahead of a key agreement on emissions cuts reached in October last year, newly released documents reveal.
    At the time of the deal European commission president, Jose Manuel Barroso, said: “This package is very good news for our fight against climate change.” Adding: “No player in the world is as ambitious as the EU.”
    But it now appears that a key part of the agreement – which was championed by the UK government – was proposed by a Shell lobbyist as early as October 2011…
    Shell argued that a market-led strategy of gas expansion would save Europe €500bn (£358bn) in its transition to a low carbon energy system, compared to an approach centred on renewables. “Gas is good for Europe, and Europe is good at gas,” the firm’s upstream executive director, Malcolm Brinded wrote in a five-page letter to Barroso.
    “Shell believes the EU should focus on reduction of greenhouse gases as the unique climate objective after 2020, and allow the market to identify the most cost efficient way to deliver this target, thus preserving competitiveness of industry, protecting employment and consumer buying power, to drive economic growth,” he wrote, adding in a hand-written note at the end, “This is a great opportunity for the EU to seize!”…
    The firm’s ‘single target’ idea gathered traction, particularly among supporters of nuclear power and shale gas, and was agreed as an official position in discussions between the UK Treasury and the Department of Energy and Climate Change in mid-2013.
    Britain spearheaded the idea, with support from other countries in inter-state Green Growth Group meetings that year, before successfully getting a variant of the idea into the final agreement last October.
    The bloc agreed that by 2030, every country would cut its emissions by 40%, measured against 1990 levels, and that although the EU as a whole would commit to a 27% share for renewables in the energy mix, that target was not binding on individual member states.
    But the clean energy industry says that this is not enough to give investors the long-term certainty that they need…
    “The 2030 package was a once in a decade opportunity to send a signal to clean energy investors,” added Brook Riley, a spokesman for Friends of the Earth Europe. “The EU chose to reward the fossil fuels lobby instead.”…
    Shell was not the fiercest opponent of climate action in the 2030 debate, and some see it as the most progressive of the big fossil fuel firms. It supports a strong emissions trading scheme (ETS), carbon capture and storage technology, and factors a $40 a tonne CO2 price into some of its long-term investment decisions.
    ***Most of Shell’s operations are now gas rather than oil-based and the firm has invested heavily in Brazilian bioethanol. But environmentalists object to the company’s pursuit of Arctic drilling and its extraction of Canadian tar sands, one of the most polluting fossil fuel sources…
    ***The UK government was never an advocate of EU-wide renewable energy targets – which it saw as costly, ambitious, and encroaching on national sovereignty…
    ***Unlike most European countries, the UK has a carbon floor price that may help to trigger some fuel switching from coal to gas.
    Gas releases about half as much carbon as coal when burned, although over its full lifecycle, this is still 40 times more than wind, according to the IPCC. As a flexible backup to often intermittent renewable energy supplies, analysts say that it may provide a crucial, if short, bridge to a clean energy system.
    http://www.theguardian.com/environment/2015/apr/27/shell-lobbied-to-undermine-eu-renewables-targets-documents-reveal

    killing coal remains the only obvious aim of the CAGW scam.

    40

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    pat

    meanwhile, in the real world:

    27 April: CarbonBrief: Robert McSweeney: Hydrofluorocarbon emissions up 54% with air conditioning on the rise
    But while these machines cool our buildings and cars, they could be having an increasing warming effect on the planet, a new study says…
    And as temperatures and incomes rise during this century, air conditioning use is set to grow rapidly in warm countries around the world, a second study finds…
    The researchers found the largest increases in emissions of HFC-32 and HFC-125, which are increasingly used in air conditioning units, they say.
    In developed countries, emissions rose by 63% and 44% for the two gases, respectively. The same two HFCs have increased by 166% and 100% in developing countries over the same period, Lunt says:
    “Our results show the largest growth in emissions over the last few years is for the two HFCs which are primarily used in air conditioning units, coinciding with the boom in Chinese sales.”
    The most abundant HFC, which makes the biggest contribution to global warmingof all HFCs is HFC-134a. Emissions of this gas rose by 29% in developing countries, which could be a result of rising demand for air conditioning in cars, the researchers say…
    Making projections for Mexico specifically, the study suggests over 70% of households will have air conditioning by the end of the century under a moderate emissions scenario (RCP4.5), compared to 13% now.
    Other developing countries, such as India, China and Nigeria are likely to follow a similar pattern, the researchers say…
    And as the world gets warmer and demand for air conditioning increases, the push to produce more affordable units could mean cheaper, leakier machines and even higher emissions, Lunt warns.
    Lunt, M.F. et al. (2015) Reconciling reported and unreported HFC emissions with atmospheric observations, Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences, doi/10.1073/pnas.1420247112
    Davis, L.W. and Gertler, P.J. (2015) Contribution of air conditioner adoption to future energy use under global warming, Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences, doi/10.1073/pnas.1423558112
    http://www.carbonbrief.org/blog/2015/04/hydrofluorocarbon-emissions-up-54-percent-with-air-conditioning-on-the-rise/

    let’s call the whole CAGW scam off.

    40

  • #
    pat

    who the hell do AODP & Client Earth think they are? rulers of the world? watch your Super and warn your friends:

    27 April: RTCC: Megan Darby: Pension funds failing to manage climate risk could get sued
    Some 85% of major asset owners are doing little or nothing to cut carbon, AODP reveals, as it prepares to take legal action…
    Nine leading pension funds are cutting the carbon footprints of their investments in line with global efforts to curb climate change.
    Yet 85% of the world’s 500 biggest asset owners – of which the majority are pension providers – have done little or nothing to address climate risk.
    That was revealed in the third annual Asset Owners Disclosure Project (AODP) index on Monday, a survey of funds worth US$40 trillion.
    If funds refuse to engage with these risks, AODP and Client Earth are preparing to help pension holders take legal action…
    Australia’s Local Government Super, Norway’s KLP and the US CalPERS performed best. ABP and PZW of the Netherlands, the UK Environment Agency Pension Fund, New York State Common Retirement Fund, Australian Super and Sweden’s AP4 also achieved the maximum AAA rating …
    Their portfolios may not yet be compatible with the international goal of limiting warming to 2C, Poulter (Julian Poulter, CEO of the AODP) says, but they are moving in the right direction…
    Only 7% of asset owners surveyed for AODP’s index even had the ability to calculate their carbon footprints…
    It means the retirement pots for millions of people remain heavily invested in fossil fuels, which will lead to catastrophic climate change if fully exploited…
    Left unchallenged, the sector is headed for a shock similar to the sub-prime mortgage crisis, Poulter says. “We think it is a near certainty that that scenario will be replicated with climate change.”…
    They will engage with laggards first, explains Client Earth barrister Elspeth Owens. If pension funds do not come up to scratch, the NGOs will take them to court.They are working within English law, which the AODP index would suggest gives plenty of targets to choose from.
    Twelve UK pension schemes received the lowest possible X rating, including Tesco, Rolls Royce and the UK Parliament. Another fifteen scored a D, including the BBC, Unilever and Royal Mail schemes…
    Australian think-tank the Climate Institute, which worked with the AODP on the index, praises the two local funds to get AAA ratings.“But overall the index this year paints a disturbing picture of the inadequate management of climate risks to Australians’ retirement nest eggs,” says CEO John Connor…
    http://www.rtcc.org/2015/04/27/pension-funds-failing-to-manage-climate-risk-could-get-sued/

    the joke is Climate Institute is an agent of AODP, & Poulter is Business Director of Climate Institute and Executive Director of AODP, while Client Earth is the usual anti-coal, “non-profit” environmental law organisation whose CEO, James Thornton, was named by the New Statesman in 2009 as one of “ten people who could change the world”.

    and then, of course, there is John Hewson:

    27 April: RenewEconomy: Sophie Vorrath: Climate negligence, inertia risking investor trillions
    Former Liberal leader and chair of AODP John Hewson said too many Australian and global asset owners were still risking either accelerating climate change, or being caught out by market changes…
    http://reneweconomy.com.au/2015/climate-negligence-inertia-risking-investor-trillions-73208

    Client Earth’s Supporters
    ClientEarth is funded by the generous support of philanthropic foundations and engaged individuals…
    includes European Climate Foundation etc etc etc
    http://www.clientearth.org/about/supporters/

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    pat

    not sure we should be “fighting” climate change, but subscription required to read the following:

    27 April: UK Times: Matt Ridley: Africa needs to be rich—rather than green
    Cheap, coal-fired energy will help the developing world to become healthier, happier and afford to fight climate change.
    http://www.thetimes.co.uk/tto/opinion/columnists/article4423128.ece

    according to Carbon Brief – a dig at coal:

    Africa needs to be rich-rather than green
    In today’s Times, Matt Ridley, the columnist with declared coal mining interests in Northumberland, argues that allowing sub saharan Africa to profit freely from cheap coal should be a higher moral priority than transitioning to more sustainable, low carbon energy. He says, “those who advocate no support for coal are effectively saying that the adoption of renewable energy is more important than alleviating African poverty.” Matt Ridley, The Times

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    RogueElement451

    There is a very good new article on no tricks zone about a new paper by Bjorn Stevens ,well worth a read , I inserted the following reply since I have become an acolyte of the mad Stefan !LOL
    Stefan Mitich has been saying for a number of years that the Earth has a self regulating system for heat (and cold) via the Troposphere, his reasoning being that hot particles soar to the highest point to be cooled in the void of space. If you want to know where the “missing heat ” is ,, its behind you ! as they say in the best pantomimes.
    The Earth is swinging in orbit around the Sun at incredible speed and the lost energy is in its wake.
    There ,sorted !
    If anyone is interested please visit his site
    https://globalwarmingdenier.wordpress.com/climate/
    It does not discuss radiative back forcing or other such contraventions of the 2nd law of thermodynamics ,but it does have very interesting analogies and some humourous comments.

    http://notrickszone.com/2015/04/27/bjorn-stevens-new-paper-in-nature-has-kevin-trenberth-trembling-lindzens-iris-sees-vindication/?replytocom=1026288#respond

    PS Where has The Griss gone???

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    Firey

    Tony Abbott may get a taste of International pressure on Australia to curb its carbon emissions when he visits France. Since most if not all France’s electricity generation comes from nuclear power stations they probably have met their targets. It will be a good opportunity for him to discuss nuclear generation with the French President including it’s effects on carbon emissions and/or carbon credits with a view investigating its use in Australia.

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      Eddie

      You are right Firey. 85% of French generation is nuclear and the rest is Hydro., with piddling amounts of token wind & solar.

      Watch exactly how much is being used here, as well as how much it is exporting to parasitic champions of renewables in countries roundabout who are surviving on French nuclear.
      http://www.gridwatch.templar.co.uk/france/

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    China_boy

    The Chinese obviously don’t give a toss about their emissions, but they will put their hand up to say “thanks for the climate money”. Eighty percent of Chinese people were skeptical in one Gallup International poll. Guess they aren’t as stupid as some others.

    We Chinese think a good number of Westerners have gone stupid with this Climate garbage. Are they bored or something? We’re all too happy to take the money for our purposes, when they are stupid enough to give it away. All the while we laugh behind their backs as we build more coal and nuclear power stations for our needs.

    Really, what is Obama, the UN, and the rest of those weirdo environmental people in the West going to do if we ignore their suggestions? Nothing!

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    pat

    Rollo -
    thanx for the Ridley link.

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    Bill

    Hilarious! Last year he was attacking Canada as the #1 enemy of the world.

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    ScotsmaninUtah

    Australia CO2 villains ? Not so fast !

    I think that Australia’s reputation as a CO2 villain is unfair, and phrases like “the axis of carbon” are simply a case of placing the blame at the wrong door. Especially after recent events in Chile.

    Last year when President Michelle Bachelet of Chile signed a major agreement to limit CO2 emissions, with the IPCC’s blessing and with their assurances that “humans” are “Totally likely” responsible for gassing up the planet, we all thought “Now we’re safe”.

    So, last month when the Chilean volcano Calbuco went on a CO2 bender, I think everyone felt a little let down.
    I know I did :(

    Later in an interview, when asked about the huge mess over the Southern Hemisphere, President Bachelet causally declared
    The volcano did it !
    I am sorry madam President , but that is just not good enough, It’s your volcano ! Doesn’t the volcano know we have EPA regulations on CO2 ?

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