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Climate Skeptics, ISIS — What’s the difference?

Just another day in a science debate, right?

One side of a scientific theory, are generally bully boys  conducting witchhunts, wishing of execution, joking about chopping off heads, and thinks it’s funny to mock explode children of dissenters. This is the same side who wants to force us pay billions to change the weather. They dehumanize their critics with relentless petty names that imply they have no rational brain. When their lauded hero professor can’t convince the crowd with reasoned arguments, he discusses using industrial sabotage and destruction to get the message across. Go blow up a dam to save the planet?

The other side are upstanding scientists.

Pat Bagley, the Salt Lake Tribune cartoonist, has things a little mixed up.

“Anti-Scientists.”   A cropped section of Pat Bagley’s cartoon | Salt Lake Tribune

See the full cartoon on CAGLE CARTOONS

Artists used to pride themselves on being a thorn in the side of authority. In the topsy turvey world of “climate science” they instead attack the volunteers fighting corruption and incompetence, and help the industrial green machine, global financial houses, and ever-bigger government (or if you like, respectively the environmental, financial, and political authorities).

Someone should let Pat Bagley know (in the politest possible way). The best cartoonists — the funniest ones who hit a nerve are the ones who know what they are talking about.

Seriously Pat, the real scientists are the ones who don’t yell abuse, but use empirical evidence.

Touche?

Adapted from the Pat Bagley cartoon above.

 

At least Bagley didn’t want to kill Santa like Phillipe Squarzoni. Big comfort.

h/t Rod McLaughlin in comments.

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166 comments to Climate Skeptics, ISIS — What’s the difference?

  • #
    Robbo_WA

    We know that climate change causes ISIS, and climate deniers cause climate change (by obstructing climate justice and decarbonization), so it is not wrong to say that ISIS = climate deniers
    /sarc

    200

    • #
      Rereke Whakaaro

      There is a very deceptive graph, in the article you mention, which is deserving of some analysis.

      I notice, for example, that during the decades of the ’70s, ’80s, and ’90s, “Agricultural policies promoted production of staple crops, leading to increase in the number of groundwater wells and use of inefficient and outdated irrigation methods.” (Caption on the Timeline of Events in the region).

      During that period, there were two droughts: 1988-1993, and 1998-2000.

      The latest drought was 2005-2010; no longer in duration than the 1988-1993 drought. It is made to look longer by the fact that the scale on the diagram changes without mention. This is “unfortunate”, since it creates a false impression of the seriousness of the latest drought.

      As in all previous droughts, anywhere in the third world, people migrate to the towns looking for work, or relief aid.

      In the case of Syria, this time around, there were various existing ideological and political militant groups waiting to recruit new fighters for their causes, which they obtained by handing out food and water, to anybody who could carry an AK47.

      From what I have seen in the article, there is no discernable causal link between an uprising of ideological militant groups and climate change, other than opportunism.

      Rear Admiral David Titley (Retd.) who’s “expert opinion” is given, is obviously confused regarding correlation and causation.

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      • #
        Manfred

        RW, the change in scale in the ‘graph’ was an excellent observation, and ‘unfortunate’ is more than generous when describing a biased construct that could only ever have passed pall review. However, as this is a blog article the purpose and focus are more than abundantly clear.

        The article setting is the notorious blog “Climate Progress” where the author of the article opinion piece, founding blog editor Joe Romm, guarantees that his piece is another example, and one of the many on his blog that demonstrate unfettered puffery.

        From a PhD in physics at MIT to green puffery serves to highlight the old favourite, Matthew 22:14 “For many are invited, but few are chosen.”

        60

      • #
        sophocles

        And not to forget that, historically, that patch of territory has been fought over for more than 4000 years. In that time, periods of peace lasting for 60 – 100 years, while not exceptional, were comparatively long.

        All the armies were mostly pedestrian, too.

        20

    • #
      James Bradley

      Correlation does not imply causation – ISIS just doesn’t believe in Climate Change either.

      70

      • #
        shortie of greenbank

        Correlation = CausISISation

        Every good believer knows that ;)

        50

        • #
          OriginalSteve

          Well I was right about one thing – when the warmists start losing, instead of quietly fading away admitting defeat, they double up on the deception.

          Guess we’ll have to triple up on speaking the truth……..

          Perhaps we should call them “Decepticons” , a la “Transformers”

          https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=29WLW-Ogbg4

          As were the good guys, Who gets the Optimus Prime guernsy then?

          10

    • #
      Peter Carabot

      Ooops, I could blame the “Model” for clicking the wrong hand….but I wont, just the fact that I haven’t had my coffee yet! I took Robbo’s comment as being satirical at first, after going to the link realized that it’s only another warmist spreading fertilizer!

      40

    • #
      pattoh

      In the “Many a true word spoken in jest” vein, if David Archibald is correct in around 10 – 15 years that comment prove prescient.

      20

    • #

      Robbo_WA,

      thank you for including a /sarc tag.

      See, everyone: being considerate costs nothing.

      And it helps make this wonderful blog accessible to all, including the irony-disabled.

      21

  • #

    I call the “Big Green Machine”, the “Climate Industrial Complex”. Has a nice ring and is accurate…

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    • #
      Rereke Whakaaro

      I like that. I shall steal the idea immediately.

      70

    • #
      aussieguy

      “Climate Industrial Complex”
      => Funded by the taxpayer, as well as banks and financial institutions with vested interests in emissions/carbon trading and investments in green energy.

      They are no longer green. They’re just being mean.

      30

  • #
    James Murphy

    Given that Daesh operate under a set of rules devised in the 7th century, then I think they are a little way from implementing a rigorous scientific method.

    The same could be said about the IPCC and the noisier AGW fanatics, vis a vis the scientific method…

    221

    • #
      Owen Morgan

      The writer Douglas Murray, in Islamophilia, describes a touring exhibition called 1001 Islamic Inventions, originating in London’s Science Museum, which basically took the credit for inventions and discoveries from genuine scientists and engineers and handed it over to mediaeval muslims (ermm, as opposed to the other ones). The accompanying book of the same name
      …Confirms the claim that muslims and islam invented …yes, pretty much everything.
      The first chapter alone explains how islamic civilisation must be thanked for almost all inventions. These include such things as the camera, clocks, cleanliness, music, three-course meals, fashion and, strangely, Rubik’s cube….

      [The authors] claim, for instance, that it is only thanks to the islamic world that we have universities, libraries and bookshops. All disciplines, including maths, chemistry, geometry, art, writing and agriculture come from islam. So do dams, windmills, the concept of trade, textiles, paper, pottery, glass, jewels and currency. All medical knowledge comes from islam, including, strangely, inoculation and not forgetting the toothbrush. In its attempt to show that there is nothing that islam has not given us the exhibition claims that islam invented not just the countryside but the town as well, including everything about the buildings in towns, including vaults, spires, towers, domes and arches.

      It seems a bit remiss that the authors forgot to include the all-important invention of time-travel, without which these muslim scientists could never have introcduced agriculture to Jericho, or minted those Athenian coins, or put up all those Roman arches. If the western thugs with isis were taught junk like that at school, it helps to explain why they are so keen to eradicate all evidence to the contrary.

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      • #
        Oksanna

        Of course. Everyone knows that algebra was invented by the Eskimos and that the Arabs had nothing to contribute: the equation solving of Al-Khwarizmi’s “Al-Jabr”, the idea of a function (Sharaf al-Dīn al-Tūsī), and early symbolic algerbra (Ibn al-Banna and al-Qalasadi) were all “made up” by a travelling sideshow, correct?

        And you may have heard of the amazing story of the obstetric forceps. In the ancestral home of the Chamberlen family of doctors in the UK, a secret box, built into the house, was found containing the prototypes of the instrument which was a closely guarded family secret for 150 years. Midwives were banished from the birthing room and mothers blindfolded before the doctor would use them in a difficult birth. But what about the Moorish surgeon Abū al-Qāsim (died 1013) who invented 200 surgical instruments and described the forceps centuries before the Chamberlens? Nah, just a coincidence, right?

        The Muslims were brilliant scientists, (not to mention the prototypical multiculturalists), and before the Salafist fundamentalist nightmare we are all experiencing, they basically preserved, nurtured the ancient Greek knowledge, and developed upon it, while we were still grovelling around emerging from the Dark Ages. Idries Shah’s tome “The Sufis” is un-put-downable and well worth a read in this regard. Many of the Latin-sounding named scholars that we base our scientific and philosophical traditions upon were Muslims. Averroes (“the founding father of secular thought in Western Europe” was in fact Ibn Rusd.

        11

        • #
          Rereke Whakaaro

          I think you are being a bit harsh.

          Owen is merely commenting on the book Islamophilia, by Douglas Murray, and points out that a lot of the “inventions” attributed to Muslim Scientists, by Murray, were previously known in other cultures.

          The Muslims, who were great travellers, may have learnt from their travels, as seems likely, or they could be parallel inventions, which is not an uncommon phenomenon. We will probably never know.

          But you really should avoid attacking the messenger.

          20

          • #
            Oksanna

            Rereke, if that is Murray’s message, in the italicised text that Owen quotes, then such a shotgun attack warrants a measured salvo or two in return. On GoodReads, Vince Darcangelo gave Murray overall a positive review, but mentioned that “Murray …. argues that the exhibit crosses over into historical revisionism, and perhaps he’s right… But regardless of the factual accuracy, his mocking tone is more befitting a late-night drunk dialogue.”
            Is that another way of saying, a rant?
            As for the inventions:
            Camera: Yes, well optical principles upon which the camera is based were discovered by Alhazen, honoured in medieval Europe as “Ptolemy the Second”, and “The Physicist”. Also known as Ibn al-Haytham (b.965).
            Hygiene: Avicenna the great medieval physician stressed it. He wrote The Canon of Medicine, one of the most famous books in the history of medicine according to Britannica. Proper title Ibn Sina (b.980).
            Clocks: Medieval engineer Al-Jazari (b.1136) made heaps of ‘em, candle clocks, elephant clocks, water clocks. Wrote a book on Ingenious Mechanical Devices in 1206.
            Windmills, architecture, hospitals, great libraries and fluid intellectual exchange (in an age when the European Church and rulers had a stifling monopoly on knowledge…), the list of achievements goes on.

            Populist attacks by the likes of Douglas Murray, in this era when the faith which he targets (and targets in its entirety without discrimination between movements and sects), is mired in controversy, do not detract from the historical reality of the golden age of Arab science from the 8th to 13th centuries C.E.

            I consider Murray’s attacks troubling in their anti-Arab aspect, to me they reek of fear and antipathy, presenting, under a tissue-thin veneer of respectability, as considered criticism. I think such critiques unbecoming, but unfortunately, ubiquitous behaviour these days in the West. Akin to leftist Naomi Oreskes’ mudslinging at skeptical scientists, projecting her own failings onto others, it is the populist conservative Andrew Murray that is the revisionist here, not a little travelling exhibition of Arab ideas and inventions, innovations from which our civilization has derived great benefit.

            20

            • #

              Rereke,

              Oksanna doesn’t seem to be attacking any messenger, so much as repaying Murray’s misplaced sarcasm with corrective sarcasm of her own. I like Murray but (if the reviews I’m seeing are to be believed) he does seem to be victim of a historical blind spot on this topic.

              Oksanna,

              let’s be fair—it sounds like has Murray grossly underestimated the Muslim contribution to science in the Middle Ages, which is a vast one and very commonly underestimated, and this would suggest he’s being ahistorical—even culturally or religiously chauvinistic—but not racist. In other words, “anti-Islam” would be a more plausible adjective than “anti-Arab.”

              01

              • #
                Owen Morgan

                No, Murray was correctly drawing attention to a ridiculous over-statement of the not-all-that-impressive achievements of thinkers in the muslim world of the middle ages. How can anyone with a conscience pretend to believe that muslims invented agriculture (a defining feature of life from the Neolithic), or currency (invented in Lydia in the 6th century BC), or the arch (all over the place in Roman era architecture)?

                [Snip! Let's keep it on topic] Fly

                00

            • #

              Oksanna,

              your comments are [E/e]nlightening. I wish I knew more about the subject.

              But who on earth is Al-Khwarizmi? I thought Al Gore took the initiative in inventing algorithms.

              ;-)

              11

            • #
              Owen Morgan

              To equate the definition of “optical principles” with the actual invention of the camera is akin to saying that the inventor of fireworks was the progenitor of space exploration (which can’t be true, since even the Institute named after Robert Goddard, pioneer rocket scientist, doesn’t do space exploration). The Romans were obsessed with cleanliness. Even a Very Bad emperor, Caracalla, remembered to bless Rome with a colossal set of thermae. The Romans built baths everywhere and you can see plenty of traces of them on Hadrian’s Wall. Water-clocks were used in ancient Athens, more than a thousand years before the onset of islam. Compared to mechanical clocks, candle-clocks aren’t all that useful. For calculating longitude, I’d prefer one of Harrison’s timepieces.

              10

        • #
          James Murphy

          Actually, I resent your assumptions that I know nothing of history with regards to islamic contributions to science/engineering – including the numbers we all use…

          Still, amongst sane, rational people, there is no denying that Daesh are far from modern in their beliefs, and also far from embracing open debate.

          11

        • #
          Owen Morgan

          You seem to be overlooking the fact that many “muslim” scholars in mediaeval times were actually Christians or Jews, who devoted their time to study because, in the muslim world, they were barred from doing anything else. If that’s what you call a “prototypical multiculturalist” society, then, yeah, I suppose it fits, if not exactly in the way you intended. There was not and is not anything implicit in islam to encourage the study of science, or any other branch of learning, for its own sake. The inventor of algebra, whom you mention, was a muslim Persian. Which one of those attributes, do you seriously think, had the greater influence on his intellectual life: that he was a product of a series of some of the greatest civilisations of the ancient world, sited in the world’s most gigantic crossroads, or that he was a muslim? (Clue: you do give a grudging nod to “the ancient Greek knowledge”.)

          00

  • #
    mmxx

    The scatter-gun usage of the term”climate deniers” shows how much disarray there exists in the belief system of catastrophic anthropogenic global warming.

    Nobody seems to deniy that Earth has a climate. I know of nobody who denies that climate has continued to change over the history of our planet.

    The addition of human-associated emissions of carbon dioxide to the varying (over history) natural levels of this life-essential gas is not in dispute.

    It is the myriad catastrophic predictions of demise of life on Earth based on climate science’s computer models, that have been shown to be wrong for more than 20 years, that has spawned a growing wave of scepticism among reasonable, thinking people.

    CAGW proponents have now resorted to name calling and threats in the absence of reasoned debate to defend their eroding ability to demonstrate validity of their beliefs.

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    • #
      David-of-Cooyal in Oz

      G’day mmxx,
      As a completely unqualified linguistic pedant, shouldn’t your “…eroding ability…” read “…eroded ability…” ?
      Cheers,
      Dave B

      00

      • #
        Rereke Whakaaro

        Acid has an eroding ability, so perhaps mmxx is saying that CAGW proponents have become acidic? But I agree with you, the past tense seems to make more sense.

        20

      • #
        sophocles

        I think mmxx’s use of tense is correct. The sentence has ‘now’ as the fourth word which establishes present tense, making ‘their eroding ability’ correct usage. The implication of ‘eroding’ is that it is active and continues to erode.

        Just my (pedantic) tuppence worth …

        10

  • #

    “What I do know because I’ve seen it before is that there will be consequences from such an accepted environment of casual hate speech. Someone, somewhere, sometime will decide one of the deniers will have to be killed to protect the environment. It’s a prediction but one I feel will eventually happen as the hate speech spirals ever more violently out of control and gives someone a feeling of authorisation to do something murderous to save the planet.”

    https://thepointman.wordpress.com/2015/02/06/a-climate-of-hate-and-a-license-to-kill/

    Another step closer …

    Pointman

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    • #
      Leigh

      Pointman, it’s as if the alarmists are trying to to provoke a violent reaction from skeptics.
      Rather than defend their lost cause.
      Their collective face contorting and venom spitting vitriol when skeptics refuse to go along with the name change is a bit of concern.
      It’s actually not the skeptics advocating head lopping and physical harm to another.
      It’s not me rudely comparing others who have a differing opinion with holocaust deniers.
      Even though I do respond with being called a denier with “your a fraud but don’t take it personal”.
      I would rather see those that are adjusting, falsifying and homogenising data and presenting it as factual, be charged and stood in the dock.
      Their humiliation would satisfy my “lust for revenge”rather than inflicting physical harm.
      I think it’s next month we might see a little more progress in the Mann/Styne “title fight” of the century.
      That has the potential to derail their lost cause bigtime.

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    • #
      ROM

      Very, very regretfully Pointman and difficult as it is to say, I came to the same conclusion a few months ago.
      I very sincerely hope I am very wrong in this belief.

      But having read a lot of history, this time I am wearing the black arm band version of what history has to tell us .

      I see the constant escalation in the level of hate against skeptics by the climate alarmists and increasingly fanatical climate activists over the last year or so, particularly in the escalating level of death threats, demands for the total censuring of skeptics, demands for the beheading of prominent skeptics, a demand that was openly and blatantly published by the rabid left “Guardian” news media, a development which few seem to realise the full import of that blatantly evil media action.

      Then there are the demands for the burning of skeptics, the blowing up of kids who dared to even ask a question that possibly threw doubts on climate alarmism and so much more extremist and fanatical cult like demands for the vicious elimination of any who dared to even doubt let alone question the very basis of the claims of a model based, totally unseen in reality, catastrophic warming of global temperatures.

      Even on this blog when I asked a rabid alarmist directly if she sympathized with Gary “Bluecloud” Evans demands which were openly published in the Guardian, that a prominent skeptic should be beheaded, she failed totally to even reply to that question in any way at all.

      Surely a horrifying indictment of the evil that is now infesting the minds of some of the most rabid of the climate activists and alarmists.

      Nor forget the role of the likes of an increasingly Mafia like Greenpeace, the WWF, Sierra Club and many other increasingly ideologically driven hard left enviro-fascist groups and organisations who are both openly and cynically promoting and driving this increasingly fanatical climate extremism as long as it is seen to benefit their own ideological aims and wealth.

      Nowhere, not once have I seen a demand from a prominent climate alarmist let alone a whole grouping of climate alarmists and or climate alarmists scientists for the hate rhetoric of the climate activists and alarmists to be cut right down and eliminated. The opposite has happened with ever greater catastrophes predicted by usually psuedo climate scientists to occur at some predicted time into the future and ever more strident demands for “climate action”!.

      The fanaticsm of the global warming activists is leading directly towards the most evil, depraved and vicious side of human nature as so clearly being demonstrated by another totally fanatical ideologically driven group an organisation, that of ISIS, leaving only two further steps still be come to achieve the very deepest depths of human depravity, a human depravity and total evil that has so often been demonstrated in very recent past times.

      The first of those two steps are the killing / assassination of a prominent skeptic.

      The second step, the most evil and depraved step is the mass killing of all those who do not fit the racial and ideological profile of the fanatics plus an increasing those who only have to be thought of by the fanatics as doubting their vicious ideology.

      Examples are;
      The Turks and Armenians prior to WW1, an ethnic cleansing and a claim of a million Armenians dead through starvation and extreme deprivation under Turkish guns..
      The Nazis of WW2; 20 million lives deliberately destroyed because they were the “untermensch” the sub-humans.
      Stalin’s NKVD and it’s 20 million dead because they were “enemies of the State”.
      Mao Zedong and his elimination of the landlords and thier families in 1948; 40 million dead;
      His Great Leap Forward and the Cultural Revolutuion to remake China, another 40 million dead. Total; an estimated 80 million dead over 25 years to satisfy one man’s ego.
      Pol Pot and the Khmer Rouge ; one third of Cambodia’s three millions killed to “purify” “Kampuchea’s” peoples and to start the revolution at “Year One”.
      Rwanda Burundi and the racial genocide by the Tutsi’s against the Hutus in 1972 and then the genocide against the Tutsi’s by the Hutus in 1994.
      Possibly a combined quarter of a million dead.

      [ One of my brothers became the agricultural officer for refugee camp of 65,000 people in Tanzania in 1974. He as just one of three whites and one black Tanzanian, the boss and a very good one, ran that camp. His job was to get food production going to feed those 65,000 refugees within three years.
      He achieved that. ]

      Now ISIS

      Will a fanatic or a group of climate activist fanatics of the global warming / climate change ideological cult who are calling for the death, the beheading, the burning and killing of skeptics now join this long, long list of past and and present vicious inhuman mass killers to do as all those other killers sought to do, to “purify” the human race of it’s doubters and skeptics that dared to question and failed to hold to the their fanatical climate cult ideology?

      Unless and until there is a major denouncement of the climate activists and alarmists, green left fanatics and their deadly rhetoric by a group of very prominent alarmist promoting climate scientists I fear that will come to pass.

      The consequence hardly bear thinking about.

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  • #
    Victor Ramirez

    They’ve invested so much of themselves in their belief in CAGW it is nigh impossible for them to contemplate backing up enough to consider alternatives.

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    • #
      Rereke Whakaaro

      They will ride it all the way down …

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      • #

        They will ride it all the way down …

        Why am I reminded of Major TJ Kong?

        Tony.

        40

      • #
        OriginalSteve

        Well they have no where to go except start assassinating skeptics……really thats where its at…..

        As such, the cartoon should show them rabidly frothing at the mouth, while shooting themselves accidentally in their own foot ……..

        Funny…..

        Just speak the truth, slowly, consistently and politely…..and never back down. Bullies can only be beaten when you refuse to be bullied.

        10

  • #
    Winston

    ISIS is conducting a redux of the wars of apostasy, c 630 AD which established a caliphate in the vacuum caused by the death of Mohammed. Those not sufficiently devout, practicing the wrong version of Islam, or who practiced other unrelated faiths were forced to submit, pay jizya or be beheaded or killed in any number of other colourful ways.

    In re-running this same plot from the past, these zealots (who never had an original thought in their lives and hence must run with an old script to tell them what to do) hope to establish a caliphate that spreads across the Arabian peninsula, Persia and the Levant.

    That pseudo-religious zealots in the form of climate alarmists cannot tell the difference between people like us who seek evidence and proof commensurate with the level of societal upheaval that they speculate and contend is necessary to “save the world”, and those who wish to entrench a pre-medieval barbarism through violence and murder shows just how deranged these narcissistic psychopaths truly are.

    Of course, Freud would have a field day, since no doubt they subconsciously project their impulses to murder and violence onto innocent others, as a means of justifying acts which I suspect they fantasise about performing upon those with the temerity to question the paucity of their arguments, and by extension their intellect.

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    • #
      Rereke Whakaaro

      If anybody is interested in understanding ISIS (or the more correct acronymn – ISIL), there is a good wiki summary at:
      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islamic_State_of_Iraq_and_the_Levant.

      20

      • #
        Andrew McRae

        It is with some trepidation that I try to complete the analogy further, as all analogies break at some point.
        If the ISIL==Climate Skeptic analogy were correct, it would imply…
        •1: not only would climate skeptics be in a fight against the believers of other “false” gods, they would be in a fight against all “unbelievers”, including people who are fence sitters and profess no particular belief in any explanation of observed climate variance.
        •2: the majority of climate skeptics would also be in a fight against a smaller different sect of climate skepticism that held different beliefs about climate physics and believed only a small family and their descendants have credibility to speak about climate physics, such that Sunni vs Shia is analogous to lukewarmers vs slayers.
        •3: the difference of opinion is irreconcilable due to fundamental assumptions held by all sides.

        Point 1 seems to be false.
        Point 2 seems to be false because although lukewarmers are in conflict with Slayers, the Slayers don’t explicitly promote scientific nepotism even if some of the outbursts from PSI sound like wagon-circling sometimes.
        Point 3 may be true of the warmist/skeptic conflict as the warmists seem to worship models over empiricism, but I’m not sure it’s true of the lukewarmer/slayer conflict as some reconciliation to real world experiment may still be possible there.

        10

  • #
    Dariusz

    When nazis were burning books people believed that they would never burn people. The history repeats itself. What starts as a joke and innuendo eventually will end up with inevitable escalation. When you deal with ideological zealots everything is allowed unless we stop them. I love free speech but incitement to violence and hate has nothing to do with freedom.

    220

  • #
    Yonniestone

    It certainly is a&$e about in more ways than one.

    If the warmists want to play the Martyr card they should at least read up on what Martyrdom actually means, I’ll give them a hint it doesn’t involve asking a question, rejecting any debate, name calling, making physical threats, picking a fight then claiming Martyrdom when your losing.

    Seriously this cult should be known as CAGP Catastrophic Anthropogenic Global Projection, I don’t think I’ve come across such a useless pack of Dullards in all my time, in frustration I claim Martyrdom in the spirit of Sisyphus though Albert Camus’ The Myth of Sisyphus which accurately describes the true nature of a Skeptics daily struggle in keeping the boulder of inanity from gaining momentum.

    180

  • #
    Joe

    Jo, I think that most artists and entertainers in general are not likely to be the most in-tune with modern science and that it is perhaps showing a little too much scientific hubris to start picking on them. Cartoonists in particular are probably just toeing the line of their publication. I too cringe when some of the otherwise-funny comedians start making pro-AGW jokes or anti-Islam or anti-Russian jokes – just reflecting the MSM monologue. It is clear that they have a bad case of NFI, but you can cut them some slack because they will make you laugh about something else – such are the minstrels and troubadours. I think it would be fair to say too, that many of the scientists who recognise the AGW hoax may well be themselves victims of other MSM propaganda on matters outside of science.

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  • #
    Carbon500

    What exactly is a ‘climate denier’?
    The use of this stupid term tells us all we need to know about the cartoonist.

    200

    • #
      Rereke Whakaaro

      I confess! I have sinned! I have denied that we have a climate! I have been a climate denier!

      But now I repent. I accept the general wisdom. I accept and acknowledge that we do have a climate. I accept that it also changes from time to time. And I accept, in all humility, that neither I, nor anybody else, can control it.

      Forgive me.

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  • #
    Rick Bradford

    A group driven by religious fervour and deaf to other voices, which advocates killing its opponents, and which intends to subjugate as many countries and people as it can.

    Yes, that’s the climate alarmist movement summed up.

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  • #
    Turtle of WA

    Projecting again.

    41

  • #
    Tim

    Did you know that the new-speak is ‘Delayers’, and not ‘Deniers’? (And these Delayers would not only deny gravity, but also have the gaul to ask for evidence and data for the ever changing political assetions of: Climate Disruption, Catastrophic Global Warming and Climate Change.

    We really are being treated as idiots.

    http://cnsnews.com/news/article/patrick-goodenough/kerry-climate-change-elementary-truth-laws-gravity

    30

    • #
      Rereke Whakaaro

      Gravity sucks, and I challenge anybody to argue that it doesn’t.

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      • #
        RB

        Sucking is actually air pressure pushing while gravity pulls.

        Well you did write “I challenge”!

        20

        • #
          Rereke Whakaaro

          True, I did challenge.

          And, I was just about to make a joke regarding the difference between sucking and pulling, when I remembered that this is a family blog, and Jo would probably not approve. So I think I will just quietly leave it there, and go and annoy somebody else.

          30

      • #
        pattoh

        RW

        Whether it sucks or pulls I make a living out of measuring it & like climate it seems pretty ubiquitous.

        The only real gravity denier at the moment is the $US & nobody can explain why.

        ( & ISIS is minting hard PM money………)

        30

    • #
      diogenese2

      Tim, your link doesn’t work – however search CNS I found this.

      http://www.mrctv.org/videos/john-kerry-if-climate-change-skeptics-are-wrong-life-you-know-it-earth-ends

      From which I draw the obvious conclusion that we had better be right! Support from an unexpected source.

      20

    • #
      Yonniestone

      Tim, someone once referenced me to the psychological condition of “Cognitive Lensing” that gives some pull to your argument.

      10

      • #

        So then Yonniestone,

        An analogy might be that we are the Arisians and they are the Eddorians!

        Tony.

        PostScript – Hmm! Thinks Tony. I wonder how many will work this out.

        20

        • #
          Yonniestone

          I haven’t delved into the Lensman series for many years Tony but what an imagination for 1948, truly entertaining stuff.

          My “Cognitive Lensing” quip was meant to bait Rereke Whakaaro who used the term in a humorous reply to my implied confusion on one of Jo’s past threads, it still makes me laugh.

          00

        • #
          Yonniestone

          Sorry Tony I forgot your analogy might be we skeptics use the power of our developed minds (Arisians) whereas the warmists have to use mostly physical force (Eddorians) due to lower mental development and a drive to rule everything, am I close?

          10

    • #
      RB

      Does anyone remember their high school physics? We didn’t just accept the law of gravity. We had to get the ticker tape out and see for ourselves that objects of different masses accelerated at 9.8m/s2. I even got to play around with an SLR camera and strobe light.

      10

    • #
      handjive

      Biden: Denying Climate Change ‘Like Denying Gravity’ (huffpo)
      . . .
      And a tax to fight climate change is like taxing to fight gravity. Or time.

      The stupid. It hurts.

      30

  • #
    Roy Hogue

    I might actually like ISIS, at least under the right circumstances — all of them standing right under a falling bomb. Yep! That would make them likable for me.

    50

  • #
    Dave in the states

    The Salt Lake Tribune is nothing but a Marxist propaganda rag. Has been for decades. I guess it is because of the close proximity of the University of Utah, which is in a running competition with Cal Berkeley and Colorado Boulder as the most leftest indoctrinating university in the USA. Everybody that goes there seems to come out a climate change zealot and/or a communist. (U of U does have an excellent medical program though.) If one ever sends ones kids to university in the states, try to get them into BYU if they are willing. BYU has its share of leftest professors too, but at least some academic freedom exists there.

    70

    • #
      tom0mason

      Dave in the states
      .

      Thanks for the information —
      I will treat the output from these establishments with a more knowledgeable consideration.

      20

  • #
    sillyfilly

    A cartoon parody that is both clever, pertinent and relevant.

    029

    • #
      tom0mason

      SF,

      While I agree with your sentiments (for once), though not exactly with your message.
      “A cartoon parody that is both clever, pertinent and relevant.” ‘Both’ implies two items you list three!

      It is good when a cartoon is be both clever and funny, thus exposing with wit, a complex, or poorly understood, subject to a greater audience.
      Sadly the nasty output of Pat Bagley is neither clever or funny.

      But these are, so SF muse on this -

      On climate alarm

      or

      Climate scientist at work

      and my favorite -


      The first Anthropological global warming guilt trip

      Highlights the facts and are funny.

      140

      • #
        ShrillyFilly

        Sorry Tom,

        It was a self appraisal, it should have read:

        “A clever, pertinent and relevant parody that is both cartoon.”

        Many apologies, as you can see my alter ego is just up itself.

        110

      • #
        Rereke Whakaaro

        Sadly the nasty output of Pat Bagley is neither clever nor funny.

        Since you are being the duty grammar advocate, today.

        30

        • #
          tom0mason

          You are correct but as I battled on my either/or and neither/nor got confabulated. I saw it far too late.

          And yes I am a ‘must try harder’ at English and have been for 5 decades with very little improvement. I wish I had better writing skills but no it is a talent denied me and I have to live with the meager resources that I have.

          PS — I’m sure that some punctuation is also needed so here’s a few ….,,,,,;:”!”" — include them where you feel they apply.

          10

    • #
      James Murphy

      Sillyfilly, maybe you are right, because based on your past comments, and this one,I cannot argue with someone who is virtually unparallelled when it comes to parody, particularly when related to science.

      Would you suggest I re-evaluate my decision – perhaps based on a sceptical approach?

      90

      • #
        Soused

        James,

        You’ve missed my entire point:

        “… I cannot argue with someone who is virtually unparallelled when it comes to parody, particularly when related to science.”

        I merely project the deep seated, mortal fears of all climate extremists, my reactions are meant to distract, confuse and derail in an effort to forestall the inevitability that our belief system will be held against the light and seen for what it is – unparalleled parody unrelated to science

        20

      • #
        ShrillFilly

        It really is difficult to juggle more than two parodies at once.

        20

    • #
      Rereke Whakaaro

      Sillyfilly is just applying a bit of CPR* in an attempt to get more life into her pet scare (which is called “Tiddles”, I understand).

      *CPR – “clever, pertinent and relevant”. Not!

      70

    • #
      ShrillyFilly

      sf,

      High praise indeed, Thankyou.

      60

    • #
      TdeF

      Can’t count.

      30

    • #
      Richo

      Actually I thought that you warmunists were ISIL because you like going around wrecking ancient monuments.

      40

      • #
        Rereke Whakaaro

        You should not refer to sillyfilly as an ancient monument.

        Even if there is a resemblance to the Augean Stables.

        30

    • #
      FIN

      And why was that cartoon cropped? Ouch! A bit too close to the bone I suspect!

      27

      • #
        James Bradley

        FIN,

        No.

        It wasn’t humorous and it wasn’t clever.

        It is an example of the desperation that alarmists feel, escalating fear and perpetuating hate speach because they have no legitimate arguments in a scientific debate.

        80

      • #
        Thomas The Tank Engine

        If you open your eyes FIN you will see the link directly below “See the full cartoon on CAGLE CARTOONS”.

        Clearly we didn’t want to get into vaccinations and creation. Would you like to also discuss these things?

        One thing that can be said is that to put the three together only displays the cartoonist’s own narrow mindedness.

        50

      • #

        FIN:
        “And why was that cartoon cropped?”

        It’s copyright. duh.

        81

    • #
      tom0mason

      Message understood — clause closed?

      00

    • #
      Dariusz

      So you feel that I hold ak47 against your head? But you winning, the science is settled, you send 1 billon dollar every day on your theory, 97% of scientists agree with you. What is your fear? Or any descent is intolerable. Just like in my communist paradise of 20 years where winning elections with 99.96% majority was not enough and they had explain at great lengths why it wasn’t 100% demonstrating that the remainder was the psychotic hospital patients capable of subverting the paradise.

      90

  • #

    Climate Chnage Denial: Eight feet of global warming in a day in central Italy about 120km East of Rome. Yep; on the bit that sticks well into the Mediterranean Sea.

    The mountain village is about 1400 metres above sea level, which makes a big difference in climate and temperature. With a dry adiabatic lapse rate of about 6.5°C/1000 metres, it makes the village around 9°C colder than for the “same conditions” at sea level. Nevertheless; it’s a very unusual event. But only weather, apparently.

    70

    • #
      handjive

      If global warming can cause eight feet of snow in Italy, why can’t global cooling cause ‘hottest year ever’ in Australia?

      50

      • #
        Bobl

        Um, because it wasn’t the hottest year ever, it’s only the hottest ever since acorn-sat refactored the climate 3 years ago. Sheeze, keep up handjive

        00

  • #
    tom0mason

    That particular cartoon is by Pat Bagley the staff cartoonist for The Salt Lake Tribune in Salt Lake City, Utah, and his cartoons are syndicated nationally in the US by Cagle Cartoons.
    Looking through other ‘climate change’ related output from Cagle they have a fairly broad range of views.
    .
    Having said that however, Pat Bagley — the staff cartoonist for The Salt Lake Tribune — stands out as being very anti right-wing, very pro-liberal, anti-gun ownership, pro-gay rights, against Keystone pipeline and his usual Topic Tags are Big Business, Class Warfare, Energy, Environment, Foreign Affairs, Government, Health Care, Liberal, Media, Religion, Science, Wall Street, and covers the standard Leftish message memes. It does however make me wonder how well he’s liked in the Mormon state.
    .
    The main problem I find with with Pat Bagley isn’t that he’s just rehashing old lefty memes, no it’s that his cartoon are not funny. Maybe it’s a Utah thing but so many times his cartoons are usually sour, often nasty about particular people, and quite offensive – especially about religious people – and for me he’s just not funny.
    His take on Charlie Hebdo could be seen as revealing about his self-image.

    That cartoon snippet you show is his normal sourly offensive fare. The whole drawing shows creationist, anti-vaccine advocates, and ‘climate deniers’ all uncritically grouped together as anti-science types, and it is just a tired, unfunny, cartoon scribble.

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    • #
      Dave in the states

      Bagley does not speak for many in the western US. Far from it, and I can certainly testify of that fact. Most would consider that cartoon and its associations disgraceful. I’m not from Utah but live nearby, BTW.

      50

    • #
      Annie

      My favourite cartoonist is Matt of The Daily Telegraph. He is witty, funny, topical but never nasty.

      50

  • #
    jorgekafkazar

    Pat Bagley’s Twitter handle is @patbagley, strangely enough.

    20

  • #
    Oksanna

    The victim in Bagley’s cartoon shouldn’t necessarily be a scientist, it could be an ordinary Joe Average punter, it could be a third world child without clean drinking water, it could be a bat or raptor. Forget the so-called “climate denier” perp, there should be a gang of hoods mugging the victim: a bankster come offsets trader (anyone spring to mind?), a big energy company that makes deadly wind turbines, an environmentalist with a social(ist) agenda, and a warmist advocacy scientist with an eye on that next grant or position.

    80

  • #
    Thomas The Tank Engine

    OT – from an article on pumice washing up on New Zealand and Australian beaches:

    “Seventy-five per cent of Earth’s volcanos are actually on the sea floor and they provide heat and chemicals to the ocean that basically influence the bio-geo chemical cycles of the Earth.

    “These eruptions are very frequent.

    “It’s just that unless we get a pumice raft or significant seismicity next to a monitoring station, we have no idea that these eruptions are occurring.”

    In other words, we have no idea whatsoever just how much volcanic activity influences things like ocean temperature and PH levels.

    80

  • #
    Ruairi

    Those warmists whose darkest desire,
    Is to torment a ‘climate denier’,
    By word or by deed,
    To advance their false creed,
    Should find a real job,or retire.

    210

  • #
    ShrillyFilly

    Sometimes it’s hard enough to juggle one parody.

    80

    • #
      sillyfilly

      Wait for the new Star Wars episode: “Force X will be with you”. That’ll test your juggling skills!

      41

      • #
        Bobl

        And the filly attempts a wittyness, keep trying silly, you’re starting to develop a sense of humour. +1 for a good attempt.

        10

      • #
        James Bradley

        sf,

        For what it’s worth, I gave you a green thumb, I like to think of it as positive reinforcement.

        10

  • #
    handjive

    Isn’t the Pope a ‘creationist’?

    Lord knows why the church would want to associate with people who deride them.

    10

    • #
      OriginalSteve

      Suffice to say the Roman Catholic church at its heart, is un-biblical in its teaching of Justification. The biblical mechanism of justification is *the* core mechanism of Salvation. As such, the RCC teaches something that runs directly against the bible, hence against God.

      The Protestant church was formed because of this Roman Catholic anti-biblical teaching about Justification – the RCC held that people could work to their salvation by meriting the graces needed to enter heaven. However Ephesians 2:8-9 makes it abundantly clear we cannot do this.

      The biblical teaching is that faith alone ( Sola Fide ) in Jesus is required for salvation, not works or a system of works.

      So the RCC set up a massive system of sacraments to re-inforce a core wrong teaching and used a huge amount of guilt and blunt harassment to reinforce its point. It targets the young and scares them silly. The core “Big Lie” was the un-biblical stand of Justification, so then they needed a system to prop that up, so baptism, mass , weddings, confession etc – all function like a police state to keep the punters in line.

      In many ways, there is a striking similarity with the warmists and the Roman church……..both have a huge lie they will do an awful lot to protect.

      I am a protestant, but prefer the label “Christian”, as I follow biblical teaching regards of the label on the door. Suffice to say I will never set foot in a RCC church.

      10

  • #
    handjive

    Will next week’s partial solar eclipse turn off the lights in Germany?

    Grid operators have likened the effect to 12 large power plants being switched off and 19 being switched on in a short space of time.

    Scientists at the Freiburg-based institute ran simulations showing that conventional power plants and hydroelectricity pump-storage facilities should be able to cushion the impact of the eclipse. (associated press)

    30

  • #
    nfw

    He has better be careful drawing mohammed like that. Then again, if he’s from Utah where the predominant faith is based on a bloke behind a curtain translating golden tablets which were never seen before and never seen since what else do you expect? We must be touching the raw nerve of truth with the 97 per centres if they are reduced to such puerile and in many ways disturbing and threatening attacks. I wonder if he’s done any cartoons about sexual harassment by IPCC officials. That would be interesting to see.

    10

  • #
    TdeF

    So a Salt Lake city cartoonist supports religious fundamentalism? What a surprise!

    Except this time it is a crazy religion called Global Warming, a fake science which has failed every prediction.

    So typical of ISIS propaganda too, to paint themselves as the oppressed victims threatened by evil religious extremists. Stalin was equally amusing when he lectured Russians on how millions of Ukranian Enemies of the State were deliberately starving themselves to death just to upset his agricultural revolution. Just reverse the truth. People who believe in man made Global Warming will believe anything.

    90

  • #
    bemused

    The more disgusting the climate worriers become in their ever increasing vitriol, the more they alienate the vast majority of the reasonably minded population.

    90

  • #
    Barry

    Politics is no longer a question of right or wrong, or good or bad. To many people political beliefs are little more than a fashion accessory to tote along to your next dinner party as a way to socially advertise your virtues. It is no different to a bird displaying its plumage to attract a breeding partner and advertise its social credentials to others.

    When I say this, I am of course referring to one side of politics only – yes, the Left, of course. It is true that they have different reward centres to normal people. You have to remember that these people are not evil, just stupid. When they bask in the psychological rewards the experience from advertising their social virtue by advocating such things as a ‘low carbon dioxide economy’ they are not able to reason beyond the gratification they experience to actually examine the matter in a purely rational way. That is the way their brains work.

    It is as if their brains do not develop beyond those of teenagers. They have the same self-centred reward centres as teenagers, which causes them, like teenagers, to be acutely aware of their standing amongst their peers, and therefore to seek out psychological stimuli that reward them with a sense of social superiority and earn them the admiration of their peers. These parts of their brain develop, or over-develop, at the expense of the left side of their brain (the logic side), which, in a normal person, gives us the capacity to reason through issues without our minds being blinkered by our need to seek out gratifying social rewards.

    I am not saying this as a put-down. It is simply a matter of fact. Leftists mentally masturbate (engage in reward seeking social behaviour), just like teenagers. Normal people have the same psychological urges but they are better able to rationalise their sense of being and thus moderate their social behaviour. Leftists’ brains simply are not wired that way. Just take a look at certain leftists in the media – the ones that talk down their noses with faux Oxford accents. They are acting in a way that creates the illusion in their own minds that they are educated, refined and intelligent, and therefore ‘superior’ to ‘ordinary’ people (mental masturbation). They are not evil: their minds are built to seek out those rewards, and they are not able to reason beyond that deep-seated psychological need. And, of course, all of the people in the like-minded ABC audience sit there lapping it up, thinking to themselves, ‘Ewww, dahling, when I listen to someone who sounds so superior it reinforces my belief in how refined and superior I am.’ Pathetic, isn’t it – but that is the nature of the species.

    But wait! It is even more pathetic than that. Take a look at two other examples of mental masturbation. The first concerns males whose sense of self-worth is derived from creating in their minds a sense of physical power. Let’s look at an example of one such male – let’s call him Butch. Butch drives around in a Commodore all decked out with shiny stuff and a ‘growling’ exhaust. You’ll see him every day on the streets. Butch’s sense of physical power comes from, amongst other things, the feeling that he is in control of a machine that is more powerful than anyone else’s. Butch drives around basking in the psychological reward he receives from the sense of physical power he gets when he stomps on the accelerator, and when he drives in a way that he thinks is intimidating to others (and therefore gives him power over them), and, of course, when he cuts in front of you and accelerates away, showing you what an incredibly big and powerful p€nis he has. You will also recognise Butch by the fact that he invariably has a mean-looking dog – let’s face it, if you have power over such a mean looking dog you must be pretty damn tough – and, of course, the fact that Butch hates cats. After all, a cat is a gentle almost effeminate animal and how can you be tough if you like them!

    Next there is the mental masturbation that teenagers engage in. We are compelled by our biological make-up to always look to elevate our social standing. It comes from the need that all animals have to acquire territory and secure a food supply and a breeding partner. Adults have learnt to moderate this instinct – put simply, we learn our place in society. But teenagers, driven by raw, primitive hormones and with under-developed brains are not able to exercise such restraint. Because we measure our self-worth relative to anyone else, the adolescent brain sees social power as something that you gain by ‘taking’ from someone else. In primitive societies this is done by violence or some other form of physical competition. In developed societies it is done psychologically. Teenage males (most often the ones who are under-achieving) see social power as something that is gained either by being threatening to other people or by having others cede ‘psychological territory’ to you. We see examples of threatening behaviour in teenagers congregating in packs, wearing black t-shirts and other adornments that they think make them look like bad little dudes, and, of course, by their adopting symbols that are seen as threatening, such as all this gangsta rubbish (it is so easy to exploit teenagers for money, isn’t it).

    So, where is this leading? The sad thing about leftists is that they have convinced themselves that they are smarter than everyone else. It is the source of their self-esteem. But if they are driven by the same primitive psychological urges that control the behaviour of Butch and teenagers with under-developed brains, and, like Butch and teenagers, they are not able to identify and control these urges, how smart are they? The reason that leftists are not constrained by being self-aware, as normal people are, is that leftists are not smart enough to understand that they are not as smart as they think they are.

    So, difficult though it might be, don’t hate leftists and think of them as evil. Through no fault of their own, their brains have not developed in the normal way. We should treat them with sympathy and compassion.

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    • #
      Reed Coray

      Barry, I know you’re not Stephan Lewandowsky writing under a pen name because although I’m not a psychologist, what you wrote makes sense. The only point I disagree with is your last point: “We should treat them with sympathy and compassion.” I am reluctant to treat with sympathy and compassion anyone who for whatever reasons causes harm. Such people are a problem to be dealt with. Experience has taught me that sympathy and compassion rarely solve the problem.

      60

  • #
    NoFixedAddress

    Hi Jo and friends,

    OT

    I am not privy to information and would appreciate a response from someone that could explain to me why the state of NSW is, supposedly, going to run out of gas.

    30

    • #
      el gordo

      Its the free enterprise model, more is being shipped overseas so the local price is pushed up.

      Naturally the frackers are ringing their hands and salivating, trying to force the Premier’s hand to open the gate.

      40

  • #
    el gordo

    ‘Artists used to pride themselves on being a thorn in the side of authority.’

    Sadly cartoonists are generally green/left, as are the arts in general and this is a great impediment to getting our message across.

    30

    • #
      bemused

      The reality is that all of the Left and the Greens promote themselves as ‘…being a thorn in the side of authority’. Anyone who is not of the Left or a Green is, ipso facto, authority,

      30

  • #
    TdeF

    This reversal of the truth by warmists is so common place, to play the victim. The most egregious was our own economist Ross Garnaut who called himself Galileo pitted against evil religious deniers who were trying to suppress his sure and certain science. Ross like most of the extremist warming set is not a scientist at all but accused real scientists of denying his absolute faith in man made Global Warming and the desperate need for a Carbon Tax. He was joined by economist Richard Denniss who debated Lord Monckton. In fact most of the high profile figures in the Global Warming religion are not scientists at all but speak about science as if they were experts under attack by non scientists when the exact reverse is true.

    Has there ever been a public science debate between real scientists for and against man made CO2 driven Global Warming? In the twenty five years this has raged and a trillion dollars wasted, it has never happened. The warmists refuse debate because the big secret is that most of the Greens and warmists know no science at all. The Greens even banned Chlorine. Most think trees and plants and thus all living things are made from earth and dirt, not from aerial CO2 and water. So who are the creationists?

    91

  • #
    Yonniestone

    Sorry for OT but this article on news.com about Cyclone Pam hitting Vanuatu is more propaganda rubbish veiled as news, a category 5 cyclone is claimed but the post destruction photos don’t reflect this strength at all, the clincher is the story is based around the account of Oxfam’s director in Vanuatu and you guessed it ‘Climate Change’ is rolled out to add to the “People haven’t experienced a storm of this strength before” scary future in store for us.

    I’m not dismissing the strength, devastation and tragic death that’s occurred from this cyclone, as Tony and Ken would agree, but I do marvel at the structural integrity of Vanuatu’s beach shacks.

    82

    • #
      Rereke Whakaaro

      All cyclones are now Category 5.

      It is just that some, are more Category 5, than others.

      72

    • #
      Willard

      I see no propaganda in this story, i see a cyclone that has killed people and destroyed the properties of many others.
      I find your post offensive Yonniestone.

      111

      • #
        Yonniestone

        If you read my post and didn’t see the genuine concern for the people of Vanuatu I conveyed then that’s your problem with reading comprehension.

        I find your response offensive in your lack of seeing the link between the UN and their affiliates enforcing a restriction on developing countries under the guise of “charitable aid” for completely bogus “increasing catastrophic” problems blamed on the very technologies that would save many of those lives.

        Screw you and the Trojan horse you rode in on.

        81

        • #
          Willard

          I see no mention of global warming, I see a tragic story of people losing their lives, many losing their homes and for the lucky ones many weeks of cleaning up the mess, Yonniestone if a have a problem with the UN feel free to have a dig at them with some genuine facts, dont use an unfolding tragedy to gain some cheap points,.
          BTW: if you want to get kinky with a trojan horse be careful of splinters in uncomfortable places, or maybe thats what gets you off?

          17

          • #
            Yonniestone

            “I see no mention of global warming” sorry I didn’t know what I was dealing with, tell me about the rabbits Willard, good boy there there.

            41

          • #
            Bobl

            Yonniestone is quite right, if we start treating category 2 cyclones as cat 5 then we end up with a whole bunch of people who think a real category 5 is just like the cat 2 storm they just experienced – say like Marcia. When a real Cat 5 storm comes up many will say, “it’ll be like the last one then” and wont take the necessary precautions. That is a death dealing thing to do, morally corrupt and indefensible. The people deserve to know the correct relativism between what they have experienced before and what may happen in the future. Hyping low category storms for propaganda is very bad. Sandy, the so-called super storm didn’t even qualify as a category 1 cyclone, clearly showing up the poor building standards in New York.

            70

          • #
            Robert

            And I see Willard trying to distort the meaning of what Yonnie said to get some cheap points. Pot meet kettle…

            Seriously, after all these years can’t you people manage anything other than projection?

            30

            • #
              Willard

              Robert- what does that mean “you people”? interested to know what bracket you’ve put me in, hair colour? Ford or Holden? Or maybe you see me as someone who has the guts to speak up when I disagree with a post? Does that make you uncomfortable?

              04

              • #
                Yonniestone

                Willard I have respect for anyone who has the guts to question another’s opinion, after all that’s why most of us come here, and I witness many far better informed or qualified people than me being questioned or corrected on a daily basis on this blog with most accepting and learning from their mistakes making them that bit better for it.

                Your reply to me came across as a pure trolling tactic of attacking the man not the content and I replied in kind as I have never suffered fools gladly, I’ll repay the generalization by asking if your support of the UN includes the eugenicist and genocidal views of Agenda 21 that would impact a vulnerable nations such as Vanuatu first?

                You’ll find my alleged unintentional offence on a great blog written by a nobody like me pales greatly compared to the very real horrors planned to be repeated by the latest bunch of psychopaths.

                20

      • #
        David-of-Cooyal in Oz

        I see no offence here, but serious questioning. I feel sorrow for the people exposed to the event, especially to any damaged, but also question the precision of the reporting.

        41

      • #
        Carbon500

        Willard: Here’s a quote from the story you refer to.
        ‘The tiny Pacific island nation has repeatedly warned it is already suffering devastating effects from climate change’
        This is nothing more than another obligatory blatant ‘plug’ to reinforce the idea that mankind is to blame for this catastrophe. How many times do we see the words ‘devastating effects of climate change’ in print these days?
        Before I believe a word of a story like this claiming that hurricanes of unprecedented violence are hitting the island I’d like to read about the meteorological history of the island from reputable sources.
        Comments from representatives of Oxfam and politicians won’t do.

        51

      • #
        RB

        A reply to Willard above.

        Here is a picture of the damage done in Port Villa by the Cyclone Pam from the Fox News Article

        ‘Worst in Pacific history’: Cyclone Pam rips through Vanuatu

        The caption attribute the picture to 350.org so I would say that it is the worse that could be found. Those houses are not built to withstand even Category 3 cyclones (30-40° pitch on rooves to stop them from behaving like wings), hence the destruction. These cyclones do cause a lot of damage and serious injuries with out being labelled a Category 5.

        Vanuatu was hit by two Cat4 storms in 1988, a year after Cyclone Uma killed 50 people.

        While it what these people have endured is bad, the storm strength was exaggerated to be able to claim “worst eva”. It has to stop.

        20

        • #
          Rereke Whakaaro

          When I look at photographs, I always ask, “What is the photographer focussing on? Where do they want me to look?” Invariably, that is in the foreground, so I initially try to ignore that.

          So what I see, in the background, is roughly a score of single story houses, with iron roofs, and a lot of plant debris being blown around.

          So the picture was obviously taken during the storm, but we do not know at what stage of the storm.

          But I see no houses with missing roofs in this photograph, other than the one in the foreground.

          I also do not see any building debris being blown around. Now, in a Cat 5 storm, one of the major risks to life and limb, is being hit by flying corrugated iron.

          So my estimate is that this photograph was taken very early on in the storm, before the real force hit.

          So how do we explain the building in the foreground?

          Well look at the timber. It all appears to be new, and freshly sawn and treated. The framing on the foundations is intact, but there is no framing above that. In the immediate foreground there appears to be some subframing that has been twisted and damaged, but there is intact vegitation between it, and the building foundations. Why was that vegitation not flattened by a wall falling on it? I suggest that it is because there was no wall, to fall.

          I am almost certain that this is a photograph of a building that is under construction, and what we see in the picture, is loose building material on site, that has been blown around, and damaged by wind and rain in the initial stages of the storm.

          Now people can and will disagree with my analysis, but all a lawyer would need to show in a court of law, is reasonable doubt, for the photograph to be ruled as inadmissible.

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      Willard

      Yonniestone- sometimes you need to push for a single, sometimes a cover drive for four is required, yesterday just before 12.55 I believe you should have let than one through to the keeper.

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        Yonniestone

        If I ever need b**** advice in the form of a piss poor analogy from a [snip inflammatory] then I’ll know who to ask, thanks.

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          Willard

          Your certainly an aggresive batsperson, although bamboozled with the spin your still at the crease battling on.

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            Yonniestone

            Pretty much sums up how I’ve tackled life in general, I’ll accept that analogy cheers. :)

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    thojak

    Why does “10:10″ come to my mind…?

    Shared on FB/Sweden.

    Cheers
    //TJ

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    dp

    April 5 is World Kick a Lying Pundit’s Ass Day. Or maybe it just should be. And so everyone knows, “Kick a Lying Pundit’s Ass” is a metaphor for “send a strong letter”.

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    pat

    ***virtually no-one listed (includes Tim Ball, Judith Curry, Joe Bastardi, Jo, Monckton, Anthony, etc etc) has any ties whatsoever to tobacco, chemical, oil & gas industries, but Katherine & company write “many” have … it’s never called lying when it’s in the cause of saving the planet from CAGW:

    12 March: Inside Climate News: Katherine Bagley: Leaked Email Reveals Who’s Who List of Climate Denialists
    A network of pundits and scientists is consulted about stopping release of “Merchants of Doubt,” a documentary film that exposes their work.
    ICN reporters Lisa Song and Zahra Hirji contributed to this story
    ***Many of those copied on the email thread, such as Singer and communications specialist Steven Milloy, have financial ties to the tobacco, chemical, and oil and gas industries and have worked to defend them since the 1990s. Others seem relatively new to the denialist camp, such as climate scientist Judith Curry. All, however, have been vocal before Congress, on broadcast news or on the Internet in arguing that human activity is not the primarily driver of climate change…
    Here is InsideClimate News’ guide to those who were on the emails, in alphabetical order…
    (includes of course)
    Joanne Nova
    Nova is an Australian climate denialist and …
    http://insideclimatenews.org/news/12032015/leaked-email-reveals-whos-who-list-climate-denialists-merchants-of-doubt-oreskes-fred-singer-marc-morano-steve-milloy

    Inside Climate News – Board of Directors
    Jonathan Barzilay
    Jonathan Barzilay serves as the director of the Ford Foundation’s Freedom of Expression work, managing support for public-service journalism…
    Jonathan joined the Ford Foundation in 2011…
    He has held senior management positions at ABC, CBS, and Qualcomm’s FLO TV…
    Previously, Jonathan was senior vice president at Disney/ABC Cable Networks and general manager at Toon Disney and ABC Kids, among numerous other management posts over 15-years at Disney/ABC.
    Jonathan began his career as an attorney in private practice in New York…
    He received his A.B. from Harvard University and his J.D. from Columbia University School of Law.
    Susan Kish
    Susan Kish is a senior executive with more than two decades of experience in financial services, renewable energy, media, networks and building businesses.
    Susan is currently the Head of Cross Platform Initiatives at Bloomberg LP, responsible for a portfolio of mandates to coordinate, integrate and innovate across the media, data and analytical platforms and publications of Bloomberg worldwide…
    Previously, Susan was the Director of Knowledge Services at New Energy Finance, a subsidiary of Bloomberg. BNEF is the world’s independent provider of research in renewable energy, smart energy technologies, and the carbon markets. At the firm, she launched and produced the Bloomberg New Energy Finance Summit, the leading gathering of thought leaders across the global clean energy and carbon markets, now in its seventh year…
    Susan was with UBS for more than 14 years, most recently as Global Functional Head of Structured Finance and Private Banking, based in Zurich. Before moving to Europe in 1995, she held a variety of executive positions at UBS in New York, where she was responsible for their successful entry into several new financial markets and products…
    She graduated from Harvard University where she studied the History of Science, and lives with her family in Boston, USA…
    Michael Northrop
    Michael Northrop directs the Sustainable Development grantmaking program at the Rockefeller Brothers Fund in New York City, where he focuses on energy and climate change. He provided the seed grant that got InsideClimate News started in 2007. He also moonlights as a lecturer at Yale University’s Forestry and Environmental Studies School, where he teaches a course on environmental campaigns. Previously he was executive director of Ashoka, an international development organization that supports “public sector entrepreneurs” and an Analyst at First Boston, an investment bank in New York City. Mr. Northrop also served on Mayor Michael Bloomberg’s PlaNYC Sustainability Advisory Board, the City of New York’s Waterfront Advisory Board, and on the boards of directors of Oceana and Princeton in Asia…
    Lawrence Rodman
    Larry Rodman is currently a Master’s Degree candidate at the Yale School of Forestry & Environmental Studies. He recently completed a 40 year career practicing law, to begin a new career in environmental policy with a focus on climate change issues…
    He received his undergraduate degree from Princeton University and the Woodrow Wilson School of Public and International Affairs, and his J.D. degree from Harvard Law School.
    David Sassoon
    David Sassoon is the founder and publisher of InsideClimate News, the non-partisan and non-profit news organization launched in 2007 that won the Pulitzer Prize for National Reporting in 2013…
    In 2003 he began researching the business case for climate action for the Rockefeller Brothers Fund…
    (Bloomberg) BusinessWeek used that research to help it rank the Top Ten Companies of the Decade for emissions reductions and to produce a multi-part project that examined how leading U.S. corporations were responding to climate change…
    He earned his undergraduate degree from Harvard University and a master’s degree from Columbia University’s Graduate School of Journalism…

    Advisory Board:
    Dan Fagin
    Dan Fagin is the director of the Science, Health and Environmental Reporting Program at NYU’s Arthur L. Carter Journalism Institute, where he also teaches environmental reporting. For 14 years he was the environment writer at Newsday, where he was a principal member of two reporting teams that were finalists for the Pulitzer Prize…
    He is a former president of the 1,500-member Society of Environmental Journalists…
    Arthur Klebanoff
    He has represented a broad range of authors and publishing programs, including Michael Bloomberg, Danielle Steel, Bill Bradley, Nobel Laureate Paul Krugman, etc…
    Klebanoff is a graduate of Harvard Law School (Law Review, 1972) and Yale University (where he won the Alpheus Henry Snow Prize for “inspiring in his classmates an admiration and love for the best traditions of high scholarship”). He is an advisor to the award winning not for profit Youth Communication, which creates short, nonfiction stories that appeal to hard-to- reach teens…
    Richard Louv
    Richard Louv is the recipient of the 2008 Audubon Medal; past recipients have included Rachel Carson, E.O. Wilson and Jimmy Carter. He is chairman emeritus and co-founder of the Children & Nature Network, an international nonprofit organization helping build movement to connect children, their families and communities to the natural world. He has served as an adviser to the Ford Foundation’s Leadership for a Changing World award program, is a member of the Citistates Group, appears often on national radio and television programs, and speaks frequently in the United States and overseas. He is also a member of the board of directors of ecoAmerica. He has written for The New York Times, The Washington Post, and other newspapers and magazines…
    Richard Tofel
    He was formerly the assistant publisher of The Wall Street Journal and, earlier, an assistant managing editor of the paper, vice president, corporate communications for Dow Jones & Company, and an assistant general counsel of Dow Jones. More recently, he served as vice president, general counsel and secretary of the Rockefeller Foundation…

    Media Partners:
    InsideClimate News has ongoing media partnerships with the following news organizations:

    Bloomberg
    McClatchy
    Associated Press
    The Guardian
    Center for Public Integrity
    The Weather Channel

    Our Funders:
    InsideClimate News is a 501 C3 tax exempt organization …
    Our donors include:

    Common Sense Fund
    Energy Foundation
    Educational Foundation of America
    Ford Foundation
    Grantham Foundation
    Knight Foundation
    Marisla Foundation
    Park Foundation
    Rockefeller Brothers Fund

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    pat

    a bit of fun.

    wondered if InsideClimateNews’ Katherine Bagley was related to SaltLakeTribune’s Pat Bagley. i haven’t found a connection, but…

    Twitter: Katherine (Kat) Bagley:
    Chaotic media room at the UN today for the #climate summit
    (PIC OF SAME)
    under the pic are small pics of people & the first one is Pat Bagley, click on it:
    Pat Bagley
    @Patbagley
    Editorial Cartoonist for The Salt Lake Tribune. I am what Utah has instead of a Democratic Party.
    Salt Lake City · sltrib.com
    Here is my complete cartoon comparing #antiscience nincompoops to ISIS #climate #creationism pic.twitter.com/AVIt6IuYoN
    https://twitter.com/kat_bagley/status/514426736403300352

    ah, the smugness.

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    Someone should let Pat Bagley know (in the politest possible way). The best cartoonists — the funniest ones who hit a nerve are the ones who know what they are talking about.

    JOSH
    http://bishophill.squarespace.com/blog/category/josh?

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    Oliver

    As a small business owner( a cafe) I employ juniors as I cannot afford any other type, nonetheless, conversations do drift to their point of interest and besides clubbing, I am questioned quite extensively on matters Climate. I never provoke such conversations as I like to keep my opinions to myself ( hey im interseted in research for my own sanity) , however the young crowd are devastated at my sceptism on all things Global warming or whatever it may be called daily. Their freinds who are caught up in the latest fad, vegan, feminist or whatever tickles the fancy of youth , round up constantly about my attitude. It will not come as any surprise that when ever I ask for Proof, the same response is always ” but the science” . My main beef has always been the diversion of astronomical amounts of money( read tax payer money) from real and quantifyable problems in society. They do not ever , I mean ever have an answer to the vexed question of this. Being older and wiser to the things needed to survive, My sceptism in this context has given great concern to their argument. In this I am proud only to make said attackers question their ethics. Whilst I appreciate their continued attendance to buy more food, it certainly has made them think before rambing. I shudder to think that a hord of youth will barrage me in my thoughts but the doubt has been created , the instinct to question was all I ask and now I believe I have succeeded one little bit. I indeed explained that after reseach they maintained their position, then by alll means believe what you believe . Question question question. We may live a life if they do

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    pat

    having established in an earlier comment that Inside Climate News is in a media partnership with Bloomberg, it’s best to post the following in this thread rather than jo’s new one.

    ***Katherine Bagley, spruiking for Bloomberg, who can’t get much media coverage!

    Jan 2014: PBS Newshour: What will Bloomberg’s legacy on climate change be?
    Michael Bloomberg left office a few days ago after serving 12 years as the Mayor of New York city and people already are trying to assess his legacy.
    Katherine Bagley of Inside Climate News speaks on why she thinks the mayor’s efforts to address climate change are so significant.
    ***KATHERINE BAGLEY: So, he has been working for the past six years on sustainability and climate change initiatives, and it is something that gets very little attention in the public and by the media…
    HARI SREENIVASAN: Does he plan to continue doing this after his mayorship?
    KATHERINE BAGLEY: Yes, we had an interview with him in September and he said that he very much wants to stay involved in climate change. He is involved in – it is called C40. It is an international coalition of mayors from countries across the globe. What they are trying to do is take action on climate change in ways that federal governments are not. He plans to stay very involved with that…
    HARI SREENIVASAN: The eBook is called Hidden Legacy: Climate Change and The Future of New York City, written by Katherine Bagley and Maria Gallucci. Thanks so much for joining us.
    FIRST COMMENT IS THE MOST RECENT OF 18, MOSTLY MOCKING COMMENTS:
    Jack Wolf: PBS need to ban denialist comments – the National Academy of Science clearly shows that human caused climate change is already occurring and is quite dangerous. Most of the comments here are from known Bots. But, with Koch and Range Resource monies now affecting PBS’s bottom line, I wouldn’t expect that to happen soon
    http://www.pbs.org/newshour/bb/environment-jan-june14-bagley_01-05/

    Wikipedia: C40
    Key People: Michael Bloomberg (President of the Board of Directors)
    President Bill Clinton (Founding Partner)
    C40 is composed of 75 member cities around the world. On November 26, the former C40 Chair, the 108th Mayor of New York City, Michael R. Bloomberg, was succeeded by the Mayor of Rio de Janeiro, Eduardo Paes. Mayor Bloomberg served as the elected leader of the organization from 2010–2013, he will stay on as the President of the C40 Board of Directors…

    C40 website: Partners: C40 works in an aligned partnership with the Clinton Climate Initiative (CCI) Cities program, which was started by the Clinton Foundation.

    Funder: C40 was strengthened in 2011 by a strategic and multi-year grant from Bloomberg Philanthropies, which helped to forge the closer alliance with the CCI Cities Program and position the combined effort as one of the preeminent climate action organisations in the world.

    Funder: Children’s Investment Fund Foundation (CIFF)
    The Children’s Investment Fund Foundation (CIFF) is an independent, philanthropic organisation…

    Funder: Realdania
    Realdania is a modern philanthropic association that works to create quality of life and benefit the common good by improving the built environment: cities, buildings and the built heritage. Realdania grew out of a 150 year old mortgage credit association…

    Other Partners: Arup, ICLEI, CDP (formerly The Carbon Disclosure Project), World Resources Institute (WRI), World Bank,

    ***SIEMENS – Partner/Funder
    The partnership also will make Siemens’ technical expertise directly available to C40’s robust network of cities, enhancing the ability of both organizations to help cities accelerate their climate action efforts…

    —–

    how nice they want to save the planet from CAGW.

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    pat

    Katherine Bagley chose to smear people who have never received a cent from the tobacco & fossil fuels industries, so let’s look at just one of the funders of ICN media partner Michael Bloomberg’s C40 group: the Children’s Investment Fund Foundation (CIFF).

    the hedge fund & foundation are now allegedly separate, with Hohn’s ex-wife (who won a $500 million divorce settlement, which made MSM news) running the foundation, but the foundation’s substantial funds all came from the hedge fund:

    June 2014: TCI Hedge Fund in Britain Ends Ties to Charitable Arm
    When Christopher Hohn, the founder of one of Britain’s largest and most successful hedge funds, chose to structure his fund to automatically donate a portion of its fees to charity — specifically his wife’s charity — people took notice.
    “The marriage of business and philanthropy that is at the heart of the Children’s Investment Fund and the Children’s Investment Fund Foundation provides a great tool to effect serious change in the developing world,” former President Bill Clinton said when speaking to the fund’s investors in 2006…
    According to regulatory filings in Britain, the Children’s Investment Fund, known as TCI, will no longer donate money to the foundation on a contractual basis, though it may do so on a ***discretionary basis…
    ***The fund is suing the Indian government, contending that it has exerted undue influence over the management of Coal India.
    TCI has also called for the European defense conglomerate EADS, now Airbus, to sell one of its most politically sensitive assets, a large stake in Dassault Aviation.
    And the fund took a big stake in Rupert Murdoch’s News Corporation before the company was split in two, and it has pressured the board of ***Japan Tobacco to buy back stock and increase dividends, both of which the company has done
    http://dealbook.nytimes.com/2014/06/18/tci-hedge-fund-in-britain-ends-ties-to-charitable-arm/

    4 pages: 2013: MoneyControl: Coal India losing $20bn, corrupt cos gaining: TCI’s Hohn
    The founder of the USD 6 billion The Children’s Investment Fund is best known in India for taking on the government against what he calls ‘unfair pricing of coal’.
    TCI, which has a minority stake in Coal India , has been accusing the PSU of not protecting minority shareholders’ interest and harming the company. It has also initiated legal action against the PSU by filing a petition before the Kolkata High Court…
    “The government has not raised prices on coal in nearly two-years. As a result with inflation, coal pricing is falling in real terms,” Hohn said in an interview to CNBC-TV18…
    “Whatever shareholding we hold, we will go to the distance on the litigation”…
    ***”Japan Tobacco is big investment for us, we doubled our money in the last two years, as the government sold down below control and the company was forced to run itself for shareholders for the first time”…
    “Why should we invest in India when companies in the Europe, US, Australia, they are run for shareholders and you can find fantastic franchises there that we don’t have to worry whether government will steal the profits not and whether it will be run for shareholders, just don’t need the headache… India as a country needs a trillion dollars of investment in infrastructure, I don’t know from where they are going to get it from because if the government wants to keep interfering and control pricing across the board who is going to invest in power if they want to cap the power price, so you can’t make a profit”…
    http://www.moneycontrol.com/news/fii-view/coal-india-losing-3620bn-corrupt-cos-gaining-tcis-hohn_866871.html

    25 Dec 2014: DNA India: Sumit Moitra: TCI withdraws case against Coal India, quits battle to change government ways
    Sutirtha Bhattacharya, the newly appointed chairman and managing director (CMD) of Coal India, has one less reason to worry about when he assumes office now that the London-based The Children’s Investment Fund Management LLP (TCI) has withdrawn all legal cases against the world’s single largest coal miner.
    Pulling the curtain over the hedge fund’s first attempt in India to influence operations of a government-owned enterprise in a way is similar to what it tried with moderate success in a few countries like Japan and UK…
    Another similar case filed at the Delhi High Court has also been withdrawn too, sources said…
    At the height of its struggle against alleged lack of responsibility of Coal India management and Indian government towards shareholders, TCI fought on multiple fronts, setting up a website ***coal4india.com posting all its communications and inviting public comments even as it dragged the company including its directors to courts in Kolkata and Delhi…
    ***Despite the disappointment in India, elsewhere globally, TCI claims to have forced the Japanese government to bring down holdings in Japan Tobacco from 51% to 33% and simultaneously raise payout.
    http://www.dnaindia.com/money/report-tci-withdraws-case-against-coal-india-quits-battle-to-change-government-ways-2046806

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    pat

    re Hohn/India coal. hope it was noted that Hohn wanted the price of coal upped, putting energy out of the reach of even more millions of the Indian population.

    following is Hohn, in his own words, proving he made the money, not his wife. such CAGW-friendly investments!
    ***note the fund’s stake in tobacco.

    2014: FamilyLawWeek: Cooper-Hohn v Hohn [2014] EWHC 4122 (Fam)
    I quote from the transcript of his (Christopher Hohn’s) oral evidence in chief (Transcript [5] pages 493 to 495]:-
    Most recently during 2013, there are two examples where we are investing in a lot of privatisations recently, where dramatic change is occurring and we are driving it. Horizon was a big investment for the fund; there is the Australian Railroad where we have actively lobbied the board. We were the largest shareholder, where the company has bought back US$1 billion of stock, about 8% of that company, driving and doubling the stock price.
    ***There is Japan Tobacco, a large investment for the [TCI] Fund, 16% of the Fund. We publicly lobbied the Japanese Government to privatise the company to pay for earthquake reconstruction. We were successful. The Government sold about US$8 billion of stock. The company bought back billions of dollars of stock and fired the CEO and, under the pressure of hostile Annual General Meeting proposals which we have repeated every single year, including this year, the stock price rocketed and doubled because it transformed itself from an underperforming company in the process to a performing company…
    Most funds would invest 1% in 100 ideas and say we are very diversified. We take the opposite approach. Our core investments might be seven to ten ideas. So, at the start of 2013, post-separation, I identified Airbus, one of the world’s largest makers of commercial airlines, as an activist investment idea. Because it was being privatised and I thought we could push change harder, we made a public proposal (which was front page of the Financial Times in 2013) for the company to sell off a division which was accepted as a sale by the board publicly. They accepted our advice and they accepted our recommendations to buy back shares, and huge change occurred in the company. But I put 18% of the [TCI] Fund in it – 18%. The shares went up over 90% in 2013…
    http://www.familylawweek.co.uk/site.aspx?i=ed138331

    Bill & Hillary don’t mind tobacco money:

    19 Feb: WaPo: Here are the seven biggest donors to the Bill, Hillary and Chelsea Clinton Foundation
    A Washington Post analysis shows that since its creation in 2001, the Bill, Hillary and Chelsea Clinton Foundation has raised nearly $2 billion in cash donations and pledges, a whopping figure that illustrates the Clintons’ global reach.
    The review found that there is strong overlap between the family’s political base and the foundation and that a substantial number of the foundation’s largest donors — those who have given at least $1 million — are based outside of the United States. Financial institutions also make up the largest portion of the foundation’s corporate giving…
    The Children’s Investment Fund Foundation: A major London-based charity that works to eliminate malnutrition and poverty among children in developing countries. It was founded by British hedge fund manager Christopher Hohn and his wife, Jamie Cooper-Hohn…
    http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/post-politics/wp/2015/02/19/here-are-the-7-biggest-donors-to-the-bill-hillary-and-chelsea-clinton-foundation/

    the CAGW crowd are such HYPOCRITES.

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    PeterS

    Now I know why the Greens and much of the left are silent on IS. They have a lot in common. They hate the West, want to destroy our Western style of life, introduce a dictatorial system of government, kill anyone who disagrees with them and cull a major proportion of the world to save the planet from Western influence.. There’s one stark difference though. IS are willing to die for their cause, the Greens do not and expect only those who disagree with them to die. Such evil cowards.

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    climate modification, weather modification, genetic modification, thought modification via media and thought-police and taxation, stress modification for children, …; a link then: http://www.independent.co.uk/life-style/health-and-families/health-news/american-scientists-are-trying-to-genetically-modify-human-eggs-10107632.html

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