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EU to change climate with hair dryers, kettles, lawn mowers

You, foolish plebian, thought that a hair dryer was for drying hair. Not so. The purpose of a hair dryer is to change the climate. Let’s stop the storms by slow-mowing the lawn. That sort of thing…

Thus and verily has the EU announced that high-power appliances may now be banned.

[Telegraph]

EU to ban high-energy hair dryers, smartphones and kettles

European Union to ban dozens of high-wattage household electrical appliances in follow-up to controversial ban on powerful vacuum cleaners

A study ordered by the European Commission, currently in draft form, has identified up to 30 electrical appliances including lawn mowers, smart phones and kettles that could be covered by the EU’s Ecodesign directive outlawing high-wattage devices.

Serfs in the EU will probably spend longer drying their hair, and more time waiting for the kettle to boil  in a quest to produce slightly less CO2. This is in the hope that less CO2 might cool a world that hasn’t really warmed for a decade and a half. It’s a case of not so much blow-drying, and more slow-drying. Likewise, stupid punters may wonder how a lower power kettle can reduce emissions. The laws of physics suggest water is heated by watts, P(W) = E(J) / t(s) and all. Hence lower watts equates to more time to reach boiling point. In the end, either you have cold tea or you use the same amount of energy and produce the same amount of emissions.

I suppose the obvious thing is for the EU to legislate that water will boil at 90C.

Methinks ultimately this will use more electricity and produce more emissions. It is possible that punters, tired of waiting, will simply boil more water at the start of the day, leaving the kettle fuller and hotter all day in between cups of tea. Likewise, 2500W fan heaters make good substitutes for hair dryers. China may start producing fan heaters that you can hold in one hand.

If there are any manufacturers left  in Europe which still export hair-dryers or small electrical goods, I guess those factories in Guandong look all the more appealing now. Shame about the jobs.

Get in now and buy modern electrical goods while you can.

On Monday many of the best vacuum cleaners available for sale in the UK will be banned as a result of the EU energy efficiency rules that prohibit the manufacture or importing any vacuums with motors above 1,600 watts.

Tesco said sales of the most powerful vacuums had soared by as much as 94 per cent for some models after the Telegraph reported consumer group Which? urging shoppers to act quickly before they sold out forever.

The EU is out of control. Send letters to your politicians now.  Don’t ask for this legislation to be amended, ask for the EU to be amended. Your nation should leave now.

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205 comments to EU to change climate with hair dryers, kettles, lawn mowers

  • #
    Paul in Sweden

    I suppose the obvious thing is for the EU to legislate that water will boil at 90C.

    The EU legislated that burning bio-mass is carbon neutral so additional absurd legislation does not surprise me.

    We have light bulbs & vacuum cleaners stock piled. There is nothing wrong with our current vacuum but we have two 2400w Bosch in reserve. Frankly, this silliness has to stop. We ARE RUNNING OUT OF ROOM. O_o

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    • #
      Olaf Koenders

      Just wait.. They’ll ban high-wattage electric cars and chargers too. Expect to get to work maybe once a fortnight in your Tesla.

      70

  • #
    Tim

    When they get around to heaters, it might help solve the ‘useless eaters’ problem.

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    • #
      Paul in Sweden

      During the Copenhagen IPCC party I was amazed that one of the presentations was one Dane explaining how he was helping to prevent Global Warming by burning wood in his fireplace. If anthropogenic CO2 had a measurable effect on global temps this practice would be counter productive. Realizing this obvious flaw the EU legislated CO2 from the burning of wood amnesty to all Global Warming crimes. -GAH- (Small Ceramic Space Heater… must remember to highlight that on the list)

      120

      • #
        Safetyguy66

        For the first time in many years we have gone back to spending half a day on weekends cutting wood in the bush for our combustion heater. Despite having a good solar array, solar hot water and being conservative, its still way cheaper to go cut wood than it is to run the “heat pump”(Tassie for reverse cycle air conditioning). Our bill for this winter (and this is verifiable if anyone wants a scan of the bill) was almost 80% less than last winter. As for the effect on the atmosphere from burning about 6 or 7 tons of wood over the last 3 months…. ask someone who cares…

        Im guessing I will know when all the laws have been passed by the fact I will be unemployed, huddled in a cave shivering.

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        • #
          the Griss

          “Heat Pump = Tassie for reverse cycle air conditioning”

          Doubt you use it in cooling mode very often !

          ———

          I’m glad you are doing your bit on the CO2 front, releasing much more than you would using Hydro electrical power, Well done. :-)

          Have you costed your time and petrol for car and chainsaw to go and get the wood? ;-)

          40

          • #
            Safetyguy66

            Gday Griss

            No I havnt but we can do a quick napkin calc.(otherwise known as the NBN planning model).

            Wood locations are about 15 minutes drive in our 1996 Holden Rodeo ute. My knowledge of its fuel consumption says it would be less than $5 each way. Then 1 tank of chainsaw fuel fills the ute(about 1 ton of wood) chainsaw takes about 500ml of fuel. I wont add labour for the simple reason its about the only exercise me and the Mrs get (leave it)… and we enjoy it, except for the monster huntsmans that seem to be under every bit of bark you knock off.

            Its still a better option than heating using that new fangled electrickey stuff.

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            • #
              PeterPetrum

              Just in case anyone in any country other than Australia wonders what a “huntsman” is, it is a very large, very hairy (but harmless) spider that scares the s*** out of you because it can move at about 200kph (or seems to!). It is not a human being with a gun!

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  • #
    Fox From Melbourne

    We need the Victoria Secret girls to come out say leave our hair alone EU. Were’s the girl power complaining about all these man banning their hair dryers and tell what hair dyer’s they should be using. Come ladies of Europe its your hair stand up for it and tell these faceless EU man hands off our hair. Do it for your daughters ladies.

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  • #
    Alex

    You people are so negative. I see this as a business opportunity. Set up companies that ‘upgrade’ standard equipment.

    191

    • #
      Safetyguy66

      Star selling appliances on Ebay, great idea.

      I cant help giggling at someone in the EU being charged with “smuggling a hair dryer” though. But that’s what you end up with when people like Christine Milne have actual power.

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    • #
      OriginalSteve

      I see a booming market in after-market compliance labels….

      10

  • #
    bemused

    That cave is looking closer and closer to reality every day.

    320

  • #
    Yonniestone

    Watch the household appliances black market take off, if all the EU legislated countries follow this mandate then maybe the only country game enough to produce rogue appliances will be North Korea?…They have to be good for something.

    230

  • #
    Graeme No.3

    Why would they want to limit electrical appliances when they are doing their best to reduce the availability of electricity?

    140

  • #
    ianl8888


    I suppose the obvious thing is for the EU to legislate that water will boil at 90C

    Too simple for Brussels

    Better it “diktats” that everyone now lives 10,000m ASL – reduces the boiling point and resolves sea level rise, both at once. QED

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    • #
      Alex

      If sea levels rise then it won’t affect the boiling point of water at the higher elevations. Perhaps we can move off planet.

      100

    • #
      Allen Ford

      According to this site, all that is required for an amended boiling point for water of 90°C, is to mandate a mass relocation of populations to 3000m. Even better, go to 9000m and bring it down to a more manageable 70°C.

      The Euros are stupid enough, on past form, to try a stunt like this!

      30

      • #
        Craig Loehle

        Went camping in mountains, cooked soup for what seemed like a long time, ate it, up all night with stomach ache because was not really cooked–much like the new vacuums that you can vac your house but is not clean.

        40

  • #

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  • #
    mmxx

    I’ve lived in continental Europe and dealt first-hand with EU bureaucracy.

    In relative terms, the “carbon” costs (apologies, I dislike that emotive and vague term, but use it here to emphasise my point) of running the lumbering monster that is the EU places Australia’s so-called global warming sins on a pin-head with room to spare.

    EU is clutching at its rule book of environmentalism to try to convince doubters that things are going to be better.

    Europe appears to be desperately trying to divert attention from its vulnerability to escalating, uncontrolled people smuggling that daily contributes to its economic and social decline.

    These proposed EU measures are sad signals from a formerly great continent sinking under political correctness among other entanglements.

    The foundation policy of the EU (and its precursor organisations) at least has been successful in that they have stopped Germany and France from again warring.

    How yesterday’s big issues have been replaced by new threats to the future of Europe!

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    • #
      James Bradley

      Or maybe the European Union is too gutless to confront the real enemy (again), and rather than stand up for itself it pretends Russia isn’t holding power and energy over its head and to overtly appease Russia it blames Gloooobaaaal Waaarrrmiiiinnng for draconian energy thrift measures.

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      • #
        Winston

        Russia doesn’t have to fire a shot in anger, because the EU will eviscerate, decapitate and then immolate itself without any prompting whatsoever. It will gleefully self destruct, but not without taking the societies incorporated within it down with them. Tant pis.

        Now imagine the UN as an extrapolation of this principal, and ponder the destruction the implementation of such a system would engender.

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        • #
          OriginalSteve

          Oh I have… and it will ….

          The UN is a typical bloated incompetent communist organization. exhibit “A” the IPCC.

          The ruskies openly call the EU the “European Soviet”.

          Reckon they might know such a thing when they see it….

          20

  • #
    King Geo

    The EU deserves to go under or become a 3rd World Entity at best. China & India must be chuckling to themselves. Not long ago England was a mighty power with colonies all around the World. They had treated the Chinese and Indians back with little respect back in those colonial days. Fast forward a century and how times have changed. The UK and the EU by adopting “leftist idealogy” during the past few decades are sewing the seeds for their “self destruction”. I mean banning high-wattage household electrical appliances like hair dryers, kettles etc beggars belief – complete & utter lunacy.

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  • #
    Robert O

    Just as night follows day how long before we follow the EU with their madness. We have enough greens in the Senate to kick it off.

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    • #
      Alex

      It won’t happen in Australia because of the power of ‘Alex’. I won’t tolerate this bullshit. I have enough contacts in China to modify equipment as necessary. I think Australians are the kind of people who would pay extra just to stick their finger in the eye of authority. I will also make some money while it lasts.

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    • #
      DT

      Australian Extreme Greens, far to the left of international Greens

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      • #
        James Bradley

        Ah yes – the moderate International Greens – the party who once fought for the Human Rights of Pedophiles to practice their trade –
        The Australian Greens are certainly spawned from a proud heritage in protecting the rights of the strong to do what they will to the weak.

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        • #
          OriginalSteve

          I worry about how far this madness will go.

          Its only a matter of time before we have a “Cicescu moment”

          We have already seen environmental rangers/agents killed, I suspect if the greens really go to town….wow…

          10

  • #
    Peter Whale

    The people who run the EU are not elected,they are imposed by the elite at the top there is no way to get them out, there is no reason for them to listen, so the only way is by leaving the EU.An MP from the conservative party left the party yesterday and joined UKIP which is an independence party. The next year will see a lot of dirt being thrown and any number of “cast iron promises” made by self serving politicians. The panic now begins.

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    • #
      Senex Bibax

      Quite right. the EU parliament is merely a rubber stamp. The Commissions and the unelected Commissioners who run them make policy.

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    • #
      Ross

      These idiotic moves are great news for the UKIP , Peter.

      But also it is great news for skeptics because it is now getting down to a very personal level –hair dryers , cell phones , kettles. These are things that affect the very average “Jane & Jo” on the street. This has to get more of them thinking how stupid it has all got.

      120

  • #
    TdeF

    Yes, you are right. The lower efficiency of lower wattage will in fact produce more CO2 to get the same job done. Take boiling a kettle. The water is cooling while it is heating, so to get to 100C you have to supply a minimum amount of energy and if you heat slower, you will have to compensate for the larger loss over a longer time. Many other functions require a minimum power or RMP to achieve a result, so the total energy consumption may actually be higher as job efficiency drops. Some devices may effectively not work, like the kettle which never boils.

    So the whole thing is pointless, even counter productive for CO2 reduction, unless these people are science idiots, which is a distinct possibility according to Dr. Patrick Moore, one of the founders of Greenpeace. They even banned the element Chlorine. Salt, the next most important thing after food and water.

    Another possible explanation may be that the thousands of windmills across Europe are unable to satisfy peak loads, say a million people putting their kettles on at once at half time. So this move will halve peak loads. Sure it will take two or three times as long to mow the lawns or clean the house, but electricity users need to be punished.

    If carbon credits are carbon indulgences, kettles and hair dryers and law mowers which do not work properly will be the modern equivalent of hair shirts. Punishment for sinners. Brought to you by the Greens, the self haters who think everyone else should be miserable. Maybe you shouldn’t wash your hair or mow the lawn or boil water? Then we can all look like Greens with unwashed hair and live in overgrown dirty houses singing Kumbaya and bonding with Gaia?

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    • #

      kettles and hair dryers and law mowers

      Oh how we could use law mowers! :-)

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    • #
      bobl

      You beat me to it, in most cases the output of a process is an equilibrium one. As you point out as a kettle heats, it cools, if you lower the power input enough then, the equilibrium temperature is lower and the kettle takes longer to heat, but it’s not linear. At some point the equilibrium temperatire falls below 100 degrees and the kettle never boils. Greatest thermodynamic efficiency is always when the difference from the hot side to the cold side is a maximum. Having said that better insulating kettles would make them boil with less power or faster, but they would still be best with the hottest element possible, heating for the shortest time. The same hold true for cutting lawns, as you reduce power the motor has much less torque and stalls easier. Stalled motors draw more power, and cutting efficiency falls exponentially. Smaller motors are also more lossy so It will take more than twice as long to cut a lawn with a mower of half the power and a thick overgrown lawn may not be able to be cut at all, or will have to be cut more frequently to avoid stalling the mower.

      This can’t be about CO2 because it creates more, it has to be about being stingy on grid capacity. Dunno who came up with this idea, but whoever it is isn’t an engineer.

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      • #

        bobl says here: (my bolding)

        As you point out as a kettle heats, it cools, if you lower the power input enough then, the equilibrium temperature is lower and the kettle takes longer to heat, but it’s not linear.

        I’m old enough to remember Dr. Julius Sumner Miller and his series of TV shows for the ABC which brought Physics to children everywhere.

        One of his short talks did in fact deal with the boiling of water.

        He had two equal amounts of water, one at room temperature and normal water temperature, and the other, that same amount of water frozen solid to ice.

        He then set both of them to heat up to boiling, starting the process at the same time.

        The water which was frozen to ice boiled first.

        He said it had to do with the rate of change.

        He was one of the most effective teachers I have ever come across.

        Tony.

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        • #
          The Backslider

          Dr. Julius Sumner Miller and his series of TV shows

          Well worth Googling all the Youtube clips of the good Professor. He has some fascinating things to tell us about water.

          “Why Is It So?” was a favourite of mine as a boy :-)

          00

    • #
      Evo of gong

      Perhaps the EU should mandate that everyone must cut their hair in a crew-cut and so hair driers won’t be necessary

      50

    • #
      Phillip Bratby

      The problem is they thing power and energy are the same thing.

      10

      • #
        bobl

        It seems that way! Surely though, someone in Germany knows the difference.

        Just for those readers that don’t know (there might be one or two of you).

        Power is energy divided by time. In fact 1 Watt ia a Joule (measure of energy) per second. So to get energy you must multiply the power (watts) used by time used. The kilowatt-hour is another unit of energy equal to 1000 Watts x 3600 seconds = 3,600,000 Joules. Your electricity bill isn’t based on power, it’s an energy bill

        If you therefore take an appliance and halve the power, and that causes you to use it more than twice as much… ie either because you can’t pick up enough dust so you vacumm longer, and you leave so much dirt behind that you must vacuum twice as often too, then in energy terms you are loosing, using 1/2 the power for more than twice as long uses more energy and emits more CO2.

        00

        • #
          bob parker

          Now we get to the nitty-gritty of the problem.
          This whole scam is only about taking the money out of your pocket and putting it into their pocket.
          Agenda 21, New world order, and dare I mention it, the mega rich banking fraternity who want it all for themselves.
          Global warming is only a very small part of the overall plan.

          20

    • #
      anticlimactic

      Surveys show skeptics generally have a scientific background whereas the alarmists tend towards being scientifically illiterate. I tend to think of the most strident alarmists as being like parrots, repeating words they have been told without understanding them. This is why it is impossible to have a rational discussion with them as they do not have the ability to understand what is being said.

      And then they start making decisions about science and technology!!!

      As pointed out above, this idea is moronic and is likely to end up using more electricity, It is almost impossible to express how absolutely stupid these people are. That it got this far without people laughing in their face is amazing, even in this modern Dark Age.

      30

      • #
        anticlimactic

        All these devices use very little electricity over the course of a year. One device which can suck large amounts of electricity regularly is the electric car. It has been pointed out that if they took off to be, say, 20% of all cars they would overwhelm the grid, particularly on Sunday evenings. It would require several hundred billion to upgrade the grid to cope.

        So electric cars should be at the top of their list, however in the mystical world of alarmism electric cars are ‘good’ and so can never be a problem, Any electrical engineers who say they can are obviously biased, or worse, skeptics, and so can safely be ignored.

        40

  • #
    Beachcomber

    I wonder when they are going to start on the big fuel and energy guzzlers – the engines on Airbus aircraft. Surely they could limit them to, say, using only three of the four engines in the A380, or one of the two on the others

    That is something that would really make an impact.

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    • #
      ROM

      That is something that would really make an impact.

      Was that inadvertent or deliberate?. Either way it makes a heck of pun :-)

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    • #
      DT

      Good point let’s avoid flying Airbus

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    • #
      Jock Strap

      The Lockheed P-3 Orion long range surveillance aircraft routinely shut down one engine (of four) on maritime patrols to save fuel.

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    • #
      Annie

      I rather think that the A380 uses less fuel per passenger than other large aircraft.

      50

      • #
        Annie

        BTW…if you would like to see a spectacular photo of the inside of an A380 engine, look at @captaindabble on Instagram. It appeared a few hours ago.

        20

      • #
        Roy Hogue

        I rather think that the A380 uses less fuel per passenger than other large aircraft.

        Sorry to challenge that but doesn’t that comparison depend on how many passengers are aboard? A less than loaded plane still takes all the fuel it requires to keep the plane itself in the air.

        Actual fuel use depends on many things, altitude, power setting, aircraft design and certainly weight. Every additional kg aboard (passengers and baggage) requires some more fuel. The additional fuel is additional weight that also requires additional fuel to be carried until that original additional fuel is consumed. The capacity of your fuel tanks is the ultimate limiting factor, assuming the aircraft can otherwise fly safely with the tanks full — which is not always the case. The fuel loading decision can get very complicated sometimes.

        There’s no free ride in the air. And there’s no simple one factor fuel use comparison. An injudicious choice of cruising altitude or power setting can make quite a difference.

        40

        • #
          Another Ian

          Roy,

          On the “read me” of Qantas 747′s across the Pacific IIRC the ones with Rolls Royce RB211 engines had about 800 miles extra range and about an extra 10 tons of payload – I presumed without bigger tanks.

          00

          • #
            Roy Hogue

            Ian,

            Can’t comment without some information about the difference between the engines or the aircraft. I didn’t immediately find anything useful but I’ll give a couple of other search ideas a try.

            It’s interesting though, how changes to a wing design such as the little winglets that stick up from the ends of the wings can generate significant extra lift, allowing flying at a lower angle of attack and thus considerably reducing drag. And that translates directly to longer range or larger payload for the same fuel. I don’t know if that’s the case you’re talking about but it’s certainly one way that airplane design has improved.

            Qantas flies long routs, 10 or 12 hours in the air (I should look up the rout lengths while I’m looking for 747 data) so 800 miles isn’t much of an advantage but extra payload or lower fuel consumption is definitely a big benefit.

            It’s interesting how those winglets work. There’s a considerable pressure difference between the top and bottom wing surfaces and that difference multiplied by the area of the wing is the lifting force that keeps the airplane in the air. In the conventional wing nothing stops air from the bottom side from rushing right around the wingtip to the top where the pressure is lower and that reduces the lift you get near the wingtip. That same thing is responsible for the wake vortex that an airplane leaves behind it as it flies. The winglets simply prevent so much air from rushing around the wingtip and voila, more lift near the wingtip. The wake vortex is also reduced, which is good because it can be deadly to smaller aircraft following a big jet on final approach.

            00

            • #
              Roy Hogue

              Well, all I can find is info on the engine itself. From the description it’s clear that it develops greater thrust for a given fuel consumption — the result of a significant design improvement. And that would translate into greater range. What’s not so clear is whether it would translate into greater payload because other factors enter into the equation. But theoretically the greater thrust allows flight at the higher angle of attack needed to lift the extra weight. So what you found is no doubt true.

              By the way, I looked all over Quanta.com and didn’t find any statement such as you reported. That doesn’t mean it wasn’t there in the past.

              Just an aside here — at any airspeed the 747 has the highest angle of attack of any aircraft I’ve ever seen, as evidenced by the very nose high attitude you see on final approach and the very noticeable upward slope of the floor toward the front when at cruise — a remarkable airplane by any standard. And considering its longevity (the first one I saw was at LAX in 1969), a remarkable design.

              It took me until 1996 to be able to fly in one.

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        • #
          Annie

          Yes…of course there are lots of factors, which include the pilot being economical with fuel but consistent with safety. Weather conditions and airport altitude, etc. etc.

          It is noteworthy that Emirates A380s are very popular with passengers and the airline is planning to obtain many more. I doubt they would do this if they didn’t feel the economies and profits didn’t add up!

          00

    • #
      Roy Hogue

      The A380 has 4 engines. But shutting down one of them at cruise altitude has problems. First of all you will have asymetrical thrust, 2 engines on one wing v.s 1 on the other. This is a potential control problem for the pilot. The airplane will yaw in the direction of the engine no longer running and you must compensate with the rudder which will add drag and increase fuel consumption.

      The other thing that can happen is you need to increase power to the other engines to avoid unwillingly descending because of the loss of power from the engine you shut off. More asymetrical thrust to deal with and where is your fuel advantage?

      4-engine airplanes have 4 engines because they need 4 engines to fly safely.

      You might also find it difficult to restart that engine again at high altitude. I’m not real sure about that one. But I don’t think any self respecting pilot would shut off an engine intentionally except in a flight simulator to practice engine out procedures.

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      • #
        ROM

        The Lockheed “Constellation” airliner of Eisenhower’s time [ late 1940's / 50's ] which used 4 of the 18 cylinder 2200 hp radial Wright Cyclone R3380′s engines, the same series of engines used in the WW2 Super Fortress B29 bombers used in the Pacific war against Japan where the engines were notorious for catching fire, a problem with those engines that was never entirely overcome.

        The “Constellations” were renown for coming into major airports after a long haul flight, at least long haul for those days, with one engine stopped or as they say “three turning”

        The later derivative of the Constellation, the “Super Connie” had the Pratt & Whitney 2800 Radials which were a more reliable engine

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        • #
          Roy Hogue

          ROM,

          Yes, the B29 engine was a bit problematical. But they were an available engine with enough power. They all tend to be built by the lowest bidder as one of our astronauts once famously remarked about what he was about to fly in.

          Most multi engine aircraft can fly safely a lot of the time with one engine out, even sometimes more than one. On the other hand, there is this thing called the minimum controllable airspeed that you have to contend with. So if you’re low and slow as in right after takeoff and you lose an engine you may or may not be able to maintain both a climb and control over the airplane. If you have a terrain clearance problem or are at a high altitude that’s a disaster. And as I also pointed out, you might find yourself descending without wanting to even at cruising altitude.

          Most of today’s jets can reach higher than the 33,000 to 37,000 feet they stick to now but they don’t go higher because it was learned the hard way that you may not be able to stay at your assigned altitude if you lose an engine. And a forced descent can put you in conflict with other traffic.

          There’s another incentive these days too. Fuel is expensive and most all airlines have cut back cruising power to reduce fuel consumption. And reduced power equates to a slower flight and a lower cruise ceiling just like the safety considerations.

          I’m still a fan of the now long gone Boeing 707. They had the cleanest set of heels I’ve ever flow in and could push you back in the seat during the first part of the takeoff roll more than I’ve ever felt from anything else. We watched them taking off from the company area in Saigon and they climbed as fast as they could because it was VC territory just beyond the runway — a beautiful sight. Everyone I went over there with was very happy when the day rolled around and we could get aboard and go home.

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          • #

            I flew in an Embraer (E-170 or E-190) some years ago. After 28 minutes waiting for a slot to take off from Sydney, the pilot sent the craft into the air as if it were on a sling-shot. Definitely set up for STOL!

            We were in Canberra about 20 minutes later; navigating between the thunder-heads of what should be considered bad flying weather. Full value from the pilot.

            Best commercial flight. Ever.

            10

            • #
              Roy Hogue

              I can remember a flight over the Rocky Mountains after dark in a turboprop, a regional carrier, that was so turbulent I had trouble keeping my mouth and the sandwich I was eating at the same altitude long enough to take a bite.

              Nothing was visible out the window but I knew there were high mountains somewhere down there. Kind of an eerie feeling if you know what I mean.

              We landed in good shape at the end. So to paraphrase a bit, if you walk away from the lading you’re OK.

              10

        • #
          Roy Hogue

          I started looking over the Wiki data on the Connstellation more closely this morning. It lead to a listing of incidents involving the Connie. And among them is this little bit of interesting history.

          June 19, 1947: Pan Am Flight 121 (NC88845, Clipper Eclipse), crashed near Al Mayadin, Syria on a flight originating in New York and making its inaugural westbound flight of round-the-world service. The aircraft’s No. 1 engine failed half-way on a leg from Karachi to Istanbul. Due to closed airports and inadequate repair facilities, the pilot chose to continue to its destination. Several hours later, the remaining engines overheated and the No. 2 engine caught fire, causing the plane to crash. Gene Roddenberry (creator of Star Trek) was a deadheading Pan Am pilot aboard who helped rescue many of the passengers. Fourteen of the 36 people on board were killed.

          I knew Roddenberry had been an airline pilot but there’s apparently much more about him than Star Trek fans know.

          If you’re unfamiliar with deadheading — a deadheading pilot is one who is along for the ride to get to where he will take responsibility for a flight.

          These were pressurized aircraft in the 1940s by the way. And they cruised at altitudes well above where you can stay conscious without O2 if there’s decompression. One other incident describes failure of the dome on the top used by the navigator to determine position using a sextant. The navigator was sucked right out of the plane over the North Atlantic. These days it’s hard to imagine not having GPS.

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            Roy Hogue

            I remember this one. It happened because two pilots were giving their passengers a sightseeing opportunity instead of paying attention to their job.

            June 30, 1956: TWA Flight 2 was struck by United Airlines Flight 718 (a Douglas DC-7) over the Grand Canyon. It broke apart and crashed; 70 people on board died. Flight 718 crashed nearby, resulting in the deaths of 58 on board.

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        Annie

        I can’t imagine a pilot would deliberately shut down one engine on the aircraft unless the engine was in trouble. Handling that situation would have been practised in the sim.

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      Robert O

      Going back to the basic physics of flight, planes fly simply because the lift provided by wings, due to airflow over the aerofoil exceeds their weight. When cruising lift and weight are in balance, and in descent lift is reduced so they come down. Going back to WW2 the British had a twin engine bomber called the Manchester, I think, powered by 2 Rolls Royce Merlins; it had a very small payload, but when they added another two engines it became the Lancaster which was the mainstay of bomber command. With the significance of fuel cost pilots use many techniques to save fuel, but with jet engines get to higher flight levels where they are operating efficiently and if possible use tailwinds. In the winter often west to east flights (Perth to Melbourne) pick-up 30 minutes or so due to the Jetstream, and conversely east to west flights 30 minutes more.

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        Another Ian

        Robert O

        The Manchester did have 2 engines. But they were RR Vulture 24 cylinders, not Merlins. Unreliability of those engines forced its withdrawal and “it was redesigned, in one of the war’s best demonstrations of British improvisatory talent, into the four-Merlin Lancaster” to quote Herschel Smith in “A history of aircraft piston engines”.

        ROM and Roy

        Same source suggests the B29 fire on take off problem as “more with the installation than with the engine per se”.

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          Graeme No.3

          With the exception of the Botha the Manchester was the worst WW2 bomber that the Air Ministry commissioned. (It was designed to be launched by catapult – I kid you not; some “genius” thought that would reduce the expense of lengthening runways).

          Its operational history reveals that it managed to carry about 20% of its intended bomb load on average with losses (mostly mechanical) exceeding 60% in less than a year. Despite this, when AVRO wanted to experiment with a larger (4 engine) wing and sought an allocation of aluminium they were told “to go mine for it”.

          Don’t ask about the Botha. Fortunately for the UK the German Air ministry was even more stupid than they were.

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          Roy Hogue

          Same source suggests the B29 fire on take off problem as “more with the installation than with the engine per se”.

          Robert,

          I have no way to comment about that particular point. However, I remember seeing photographs (or a photograph) of a B29 starting engines and there was someone standing by with a fire extinguisher. I don’t think I would relish flying in something that required a fire extinguisher on standby just to start the engines. But in wartime you go forward with the best you have. There isn’t time to sit back and refine anything. In peace you can do a better job, not that the B29 was exactly a deathtrap or anything even close, at least not any more so than any other warbird.

          I missed my chance to tour the cockpit of the only flying B29 when it was here at an air show to celebrate the 60th anniversary of the dropping of the atomic bombs that ended the war. They had it painted up as Enola Gay for the occasion. It would have cost me a trivial $6 but the line was an hour long and it was hotter than hell that day so I decided not to stand in that line. I’ve regretted it ever since.

          Before anyone says anything about it, the celebration was because that mission flown by Enola Gay is a rather monumental milestone in the history of WWII, leading directly to the end of the war. It’s of great interest to those of us who know and love aviation. We don’t celebrate atomic bombs. We hope never to see one used again.

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            Wayne Job

            Roy, early on in life I was an aircraft engineer, all our freighters were WW2 relics DC3, DC4 and a few DC6 passenger aircraft. Standard practice starting all radial piston engines was standing by with a fire extinguisher. The RR engines in the 747 were the first generation triple rotor by-fan engine a quantum leap in efficiency, their introduction was problematic as the fan blades were carbon fibre. Cathay pacific were the first customers, when they flew through a hail storm the fan blades disintegrated. One of the American companies fixed the problem for Rolls by designing titanium fan blades for them in a hurry.

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            • #
              Roy Hogue

              One of the American companies fixed the problem for Rolls by designing titanium fan blades for them in a hurry.

              An interesting bit of history there. I appreciate it.

              By, “…aircraft engineer,” I assume from the context that you mean flight engineer. That’s a position that automation has finally done away with, even as aircraft systems have become more complex than ever. I’ve wondered how much that missing crew member adds to the workload of the pilots, even with all the automated monitoring.

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        Robert O, I think you are a bit behind in your understanding of lift. Try this for a start http://claesjohnson.blogspot.com.au/2014/06/perspective-on-prandtl-medal-model-vs.html. Then look for other posts on computational modelling and actual data. One should always have an open mind and from actual data check and question assumptions.
        The AGW assumptions are wrong. That is why their so-called models (which actually are not true models based on engineering science but black box models with weightings) do not work. So instead of changing the models they try and change the data.

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          Roy Hogue

          I’m impressed. You went straight to the heart of the theoretical basis of wing design — and aircraft design in general for that matter. Even the non lifting surfaces of an airplane have some of the same considerations of airflow, turbulence, etc., that the wings have.

          And you also went beyond my expertise. I know lift, drag, fuel consumption and all the physics of flight from the pilot’s point of view. But there my expertise ends. It’s beyond me to explain the Reynolds number adequately, much less use it.

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        Annie

        The York was the passenger version of the Lancaster…excruciatingly noisy! We flew in one when my little sister was a smallbaby; she was screaming her head off and her face was puce butwe couldn’t hear her, thank goodness!

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    handjive

    asli bijli

    World’s Poor Reject Half Modern, Half Primitive (Green) Life…Demand “Real Electricity”, Not “Fake” Greenpeace Solar!
    http://notrickszone.com/2014/08/28/worlds-poor-reject-half-modern-half-primitive-green-life-demand-real-electricity-not-fake-greenpeace-solar/

    A village in India had been without electrical power for more than 30 years, and longed to get back on the grid.
    Greenpeace decided to use the village as an example to the world to showcase how communities can do just fine on renewable energy.
    Greenpeace India set up a “solar-powered micro-grid” to power the village and it was paraded before the media as a success.

    However, the story does not have a happy ending.

    The India Today article goes on to describe how Bihar citizens “want asli bijli (real electricity) from the government” and that village youngsters were carrying placards demanding “real source of energy“, and “not the fake solar powered” one.

    It’s obvious: Who needs the lights in the daytime?

    And what good is a fridge or freezer when it can be powered only 8 hours a day?
    Why should a developing country settled for part-time modernity when you can have it full time, and at a price that is less than half of the part-time “fake” energy?
    . . .
    They want what we have, but our politicians take it away from us.
    Our politicians are diminishing our futures.

    asli bijli

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    pat

    just dropped by to post the same story. here’s the DM version:

    29 Aug: UK Daily Mail: Stephen Johns: Now EU targets hairdryers and lawn mowers: Brussels set to introduce ban on devices to meet energy efficiency targets
    Paul Nuttall MEP, Ukip’s deputy leader, told the Daily Telegraph: ‘This is being done in the name of tackling climate change but the reality is it won’t help one iota and will just make life harder for house-proud householders…
    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2737313/Now-EU-targets-hairdryers-lawn-mowers-Brussels-set-introduce-ban-devices-meet-energy-efficiency-targets.html

    no wonder!

    29: Aug: UK Daily Mail: Jason Groves/Andrew Pierce: EIGHT more Tories ‘in Ukip talks’: After rebel Tory MP’s shock defection, other Conservatives are wined and dined by Nigel Farage’s millionaire donor
    Senior Tory Bernard Jenkin said: ‘The Prime Minister has got to spell out in far more detail and indeed in far more fundamental terms what he means… we don’t want to have our economy controlled by the European Union, we want to control the number of people coming in and out of our country. If we want all these things, we’re going to have to change our relationship fundamentally with the EU.’
    Fellow Tory Zac Goldsmith described Mr Carswell’s departure as a ‘wake-up call’ while Tory veteran Brian Binley acknowledged that ‘one or two’ colleagues were tempted to join Ukip although he suggested that they would not.Mr Carswell, an early supporter of Mr Cameron’s leadership bid, said the Prime Minister was ‘not serious about change’ when it came to the EU and was only interested in doing the minimum needed to win an election…
    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2737206/A-rebel-MP-stuns-Cameron-defecting-Farage-eight-Tories-Ukip-talks-After.html

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    Yonniestone

    Hang on, if the entire world ends up using planet saving clean renewable energy surely it doesn’t matter how much we use?

    Wouldn’t more potential power use make better business sense? unless planet saving clean energy can’t…………

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      Aaron M

      unless planet saving clean energy can’t…………

      Blasphemer!

      Guards! Seize Him!!

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      Greg Cavanagh

      I remember thinking this very point way back 20 years ago.

      If they do end up producing clean energy, then there is no harm in using as much energy as you need. As you’re (presumably) doing no harm anyway.

      I sensed something was wrong in my logic, but just couldn’t pin point it.

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    ROM

    Does this below tell us something about the collective of the EU bureaucrats in Brussels and the anti-human monster they have created?

    Just substitute “EU bureaucrats” for the singular “person” below.
    ______________________
    Types of Psychological Complexes

    Messianic/Redeemer Complex;

    The person, who suffers from the ‘messianic complex’, feels a certain mission confined to him and that he has to fulfill at any cost. The paradox is that during the whole lifetime the person might spend in search of that ‘mission’. And not having found it, there is only a feeling left of the ‘exclusiveness’, which provokes a bunch of miscomprehension between him and the society, and most often leads the conflicts inside himself. Among the symptoms there are: irrational belief in one`s ‘uniqueness’; haughtiness; a tendency to the isolation; a manner to express oneself in prophetic phrases when one does not know what to answer;

    The complex does not carry any danger to life as long as it does not grow into mania. [ ! ]

    [ / ]
    ________________

    The “mania” of the EU bureacratic collective is already existent with the avoidable deaths of thousands of it’s most vulnerable citizens each winter due to fuel poverty as a direct outcome of the EU’s desires to “save the planet”, to save “Gaia” from the despicable sins of men.

    Some Individuals in recent history who seemed to have suffered from some of the symptoms of the “Messiah Complex”, their personal belief that they were going to save mankind from himself by enforcing their brand of ideology onto the Earth’s peoples.

    Marx, Engels, Lenin, Trotsky, Hitler, Pol Pot, Mao Zedong, Bin Laden,, the entire Green Peace and WWF collective and many more of a similar nature.
    And now add the entire EU collective bureacracy and it’s enablers in the various European parliaments.

    It would all be so laughable but for it’s utter inane stupidity, a stupidity that could only come from something so arrogant, so sure of their own moral superiority and intellectual supremacy, so immensely overpaid, out of touch reality of ordinary life and out of touch with its own citizens, the EU bureaucracy.

    Sadly it is no longer a laughing matter to see the cradle of western civilisation, the cradle from which our original Australian forebearers came from and where we still look to for our culture, the Europeans who are now seemingly and utterly intent on destroying the very civilisation that their forebearers gave so much in blood, tears, sweat and treasure to build and to raise it up to where it is today, over the past ten centuries.

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      ROM

      Or as that rather infamous Vietnam war quote from an American General put it ;

      “We had to destroy the village to save it”

      As with Europe and the EU bureaucrats.

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        Roy Hogue

        What general was that? Somehow I must have missed that statement.

        Not defending the Vietnam war here but I don’t recognize that quote.

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          ROM

          Roy, that quote or approximating it certainly was repeated here in Austtralia during the Vietnam war.

          If we can place any trust [ ? ] in Wiki here are the circumstances;

          Bến Tre
          __________________

          “A famous quote from the Vietnam War was a statement attributed to an unnamed U.S. officer by AP correspondent Peter Arnett in his writing about Bến Tre city on 7 February 1968:

          ‘It became necessary to destroy the town to save it’, a United States major said today. He was talking about the decision by allied commanders to bomb and shell the town regardless of civilian casualties, to rout the Vietcong.[3]

          The quote became distorted in subsequent publications, eventually becoming the more familiar, “We had to destroy the village in order to save it.”[4] Victor Davis Hanson, writing for the conservative National Review Online, has called into question the accuracy of the original quote and its source.[5]

          Arnett never completely revealed his source, but he did say that it came from one of the four officers he interviewed that day. United States Army Major Phil Cannella, the senior officer present at Bến Tre, suggested that the quote might have been a distortion of something he had said to Arnett.[4] At the time, The New Republic attributed the quote to U.S. Air Force Major Chester L. Brown.[6]

          In Walter Cronkite’s 1971 book, Eye on the World, Arnett re-asserted that the quote was something “one American major said to me in a moment of revelation.”[7] However, American veteran Captain Michael D. Miller wrote in 2006 that he heard the comment being made by a Major Booris at a press briefing.[8]“

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            Roy Hogue

            ROM,

            I’ve no doubt that it was repeated all over the world. But it was never said by any general or any other officer of any U.S. military service. It is a complete fabrication, another case of taking something that was said and twisting it around to suit someone else’s purpose. The VC did the destroying as far as I can tell anything about it.

            Reading your reference and knowing what we have seen going on for so long with the press, do you trust Arnett’s unsourced assertion?

            Do a google search on, “We had to destroy the village to save it.” Here is one of many hits you will find.

            Rewriting history is an ancient art. Nothing is even new about it except the frequency with which it’s done in the age of radio, TV and Internet communication.

            If someone asserts that it was said then he should be able to say who said it. Otherwise it’s just so much hot air.

            Again, I’m not defending the war. But the truth deserves some respect from a press that couldn’t give a damn about it.

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          James Bradley

          William Calley…

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          • #
            James the Elder

            CBS News. Remember it well.

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            Glen Michel

            Napalm on villages etc. Domino theory debunked! Hanoi obliterated…

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            Roy Hogue

            Everyone,

            Before saying anything about this I did due diligence to refresh my memory. This Wiki description of the affair seems about as good as any.

            The killing of civilians happened and so did a cover up; or I should say, attempted cover up. It isn’t at all clear where the intent to kill everyone actually came from. And we’ll never know.

            But one thing is certain in my mind. William Calley was not the caliber of officer who should have been leading men in combat. So the failure begins with his being assigned where he should not have been put. But he was there. And I ask myself what I would do in a combat situation where the enemy and the innocent civilian are indistinguishable, what if I were William Calley? And I have no answer except to say, there but for the grace of God go I. You don’t find out what you’re made of until you’re tested.

            One Korean officer fighting for the south is quoted as saying, “Calley tried to get revenge for the deaths of his troops. In a war, this is natural.”

            It’s very easy to send men into a fight and apparently even easier to second guess them when you don’t like the result. Witness the mess in Ferguson Missouri right now. The situations are not the same but the immediate assignment of blame is common to both. Add to that the refusal of some in Calley’s platoon to testify and the high incentive there is to lie and you have something you’re never going to get to the bottom of.

            We only know that civilians in My Lai were shot as if they were the enemy (some may have been). And perhaps a good question to have asked is, why was it thought to be acceptable to kill an enemy who was already under guard and no threat? We went off the rails in My Lai.

            What was Calley thinking? And your guess is as good as mine.

            Only one thing is certain. We make the effort to clean up our messes.

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        gnome

        In the global warming context the correct quote is ” we have to destroy that village to save the village idiot”.

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      Roger Knights

      Mencken called it “the messianic delusion.”

      [OK Guys I think this is as far O/T as we want to go on this thread thanks. - Mod]

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    DT

    Remember the European Economic Union? A United Nations creation? Now called the Economic Union or EU. The bases for One World Government Socialist Agenda, no sovereign nation borders, the extreme Green dream according to now retired Green Australian leader Bob Brown when he last addressed the National Press Club in Canberra.

    EU madness, reject this waste of our money.

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      Radical Rodent

      I think it was the “Economic” bit that was dropped (quelle suprise); it is now the “European Union”; a more dysfunctional construct would be difficult to envisage.

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    DT

    The EU, Islam madness including Halal certification tax on all consumers, enough of this madness.

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      Paul in Sweden

      Yeah, that is a real kick in the pants. I don’t care pretty much what someone else believes or does as long as it doesn’t interfere with me or require my financial contribution. People need to pay for their own thrills.

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      Roy Hogue

      They will regret going to bed with Islam. Have no fear. The problem is, so will everyone else.

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        Roy Hogue

        I know only one person who is in any sense a Muslim. He has nothing but contempt for even that degree of stridency from Islam, much less the militant type.

        They have all of us in their sights and the time to fight it was already long ago. We were and still are asleep. The president has no strategy and was not ashamed to say it on TV for the whole world to hear. Well Mr. President, I can give you your strategy in just four words. Eliminate them as threats.

        It’s the tactics you need to have and don’t have a clue about.

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    Mike Borgelt

    The way things are going we could end up with a nuclear war in Europe. [snip. no thanks. Jo]

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    Ceetee

    And so begins the slow decent into hell in a hand basket of the ludicrous experiment that is the EU. If anyone reading this had any doubts about the absolute contempt for the basic tenets of democracy as practiced by the drones that infect that part of the world this is it. Energy is not a medium of blackmail, no one should have to say 50 hail marys’ before they dry their hair or heat their kids bedroom. It’s 2014 and we should be past this. This REALLY makes me fecking angry.

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    DT

    “I will not allow socialism masquerading as environmentalism” – Prime Minister Tony Abbott

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    • #
      Ceetee

      Thats a start but some serious work needs to be done.

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      Radical Rodent

      Please let me green thumb this a thousand times!

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      Roy Hogue

      How do Abbott’s actions measure up to that statement?

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        James Bradley

        Hi Roy,

        So far – as good as can be expected with a hostile Senate which majority is the previous Socialist Labor and Green minority government and a minority Palmer United Party bloc elected on ‘Let Them Eat Cake’ promises from a soon to be failed, alleged billionaire, ex-realestate developer from the ‘Ft Lauderdale’ of Australia – The Gold Coast in Queensland.

        Carbon Tax – goooooooone.

        Illegal Economic Imigrants – goooooooooooone.

        RET’s and tough budget measures blocked in the senate.

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          Roy Hogue

          …blocked in the senate.

          You might as well be talking about the U.S. Senate. How do we end the blockade?

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    Ceetee

    ..frankly, who the hell do they think they are?. They chose their ‘low carbon’ penance. They shoved their worldview into the lives of anyone who had the misfortune to be anywhere within their sphere of affect. Europe needs to wake up.

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      Radical Rodent

      Many Europeans that I have met are fully aware of the madness that is the EU. However, most seemed to be resigned to the fact that it has become an unstoppable juggernaut, and we will just have to cope with its grinding destruction with stoic fatalism. Odd, really, as many I have met are from nations not renowned for their stoicism, but more for their vibrant, expressive passion.

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        James Bradley

        European Union surrendering to Isalm would get rid of the Global Warming madness at least.

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        James Bradley

        … and I can’t see Russia copping the Global Warming crap either – off to the Gulag for Climate Scientists and their followers.

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        James Bradley

        So that’s my prediction for the European Union – Islam or Putin – with or without vaseline…

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    KinkyKeith

    We are doing it tough here under Green Politically Correct politicians but are much better off than the EU.

    They are doomed and in a hopeless position.

    TOTAL INSANITY.

    We actually had some back-burning in a section of local urban bush recently.

    That has been totally unheard of and seems to indicate that politicians are being pushed to reject green mumbo jumbo; finally.

    KK

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    Snickersnee

    a lower powered kettle would have to do use a smidgen more energy because the kettle system would loose more heat to the room over the extra time it took to heat up the water. The kettle is always trying to reach equilibrium with the room that it is in, even when you are using it to boil. They will need to crank up the central heating in order to decrease the heat loss.

    Cutting power ratings of appliances is a totally bizarre way of reducing energy

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  • #

    Don’t quote me on this, but the strong rumour is the next thing on the EU’s legislative agenda is to mandate a value of 3 for Pi.

    Pi-man

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      ROM

      Squaring the circle ?

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        the Griss

        Squaring ??? Triangling the circle. !

        ROM, a square has 4 sides. ! :P

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          ROM

          Squaring the circle is a very ancient problem in mathematics which in the strictest mathematical sense is unsolvable as Pi is transcendental number, it can never be mathematically enumerated and therefore the actual area of a circle can never be matched by creating a square with the same mathematically exact area.

          Squaring the circle

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      Roy Hogue

      That would be a great simplification for every math student, not to mention those of us who have to use pi in our daily work. Let’s hope they can manage it.

      Of course, don’t drive or fly in anything designed after the change. ;-)

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      Actually the first rumour was terribly garbled. Something about them regulating blow jobs but I think that was a translation problem from the French.

      Pointman

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      Matty

      Years ago I heard that in weather forecasting they already used 5 for pi.

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      Robert

      Well everyone knows pi aren’t square, pi are round it is cornbread that are square…

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        Roy Hogue

        Whadda ya mean pi aren’t square? There was a square dance club formed originally by employees of the Rockwell Science Center in Thousand Oaks named the Pi-R-Squares. That club lasted more than 20 years and I used to dance with them.

        Surely that qualifies as square, does it not? ;-)

        The club motto was, “A circle of friends with an area of interest.” Trust a bunch of scientist types to work a little math into the name of their club.

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    Renato Alessio

    Great news for Switzerland and Croatia. I think their economies will boom with all the electrical appliance tourists.

    Though I think people are missing the purpose of these appliance regulations. It’s little to do with reducing greenhouse emissions. Rather it’s to do with the ongoing program for implementing new genuflections to the environment.

    But I still think that the ultimate genuflection was when I read that in Holland, people pack up their used Nespresso coffee capsules, then give them to their postman for recycling.
    Regards.

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    cedarhill

    Here in the US, we’ve learned to love regs like these. For example, those sqiggly bulbs only use about half the energy for equivalent rated bulb. This means you take your original light fixtures and double your light without overloading the rated power of the fixture. Pricey, but keeps homes from burning down which would greatly increase a persons CO2 footprint.

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      Power Grab

      Personally, I abhor the silly squiggly light bulbs. Their light is annoying…even if you wait the 15-30 minutes it takes for them to reach their full brightness. They don’t last even half as long as traditional incandescent bulbs…or even traditional fluorescent bulbs.

      Even if they do use less electricity, the electric utility companies end up raising their prices to make up the lost revenue.

      I don’t like the blue headlights on cars, either. They’re blinding to oncoming drivers.

      It all seems too much like the CFC ban that made everyone stop using Freon and switch to something less efficient. It turns out that the so-called “ozone hole” is dependent on the cycle of the sun.

      Can we stop having these anti-efficiency initiatives, please?

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      James the Elder

      You can keep that crap. Give me a real bulb that puts out the amount of light I want when I want it. Are you following your beloved “regs” and calling HazMat when you break one (and you will break one)? That is the law you know; that dreaded microscopic bead of mercury requires government approved removal teams to kick you out of your home until they complete the cleanup. When it dies, do you take it to an approved collection site, or toss it in with the rest of the trash?

      Conserve the old fashioned way. Turn off the effin’ light when you leave the room and turn off the 60″ TV when nobody is watching.

      I allow one concession to electricity: My local power company has installed a controller on the water heater to shut it down during peak hours. Easy enough to work around. I refuse to give them control of my heat pumps.

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        bobl

        I think he is making the very valid point that you can also load up the outlet to the max which in theory gives you the lumens of a supanova, at the same power consumption as the dimmer incandescent. For example a 70W HID (metal halide) is a lot brighter than a 70W incandescent. Its just the fact that we choose not to do that, that results in the dim light. Me though, I like the newer high wattage LED lights, I would have gone for them even without force, simply because they last a lot longer.

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    Tim

    Will the Smart Meters decide whether you have been using too much power at a particular time of day? Can they detect the use of banned-wattage appliances?

    Just a thought. Maybe someone can enlighten me on this.

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      Raven

      Yep . . you’ll be flagged as a big polluter and the siren will go off at the power company.
      The Hairdryer Police will be there in twenty minutes.

      This of course provides Green employment and the EU have a committee in place to monitor the carbon footprint of the Hairdryer Police.
      It’ll all work out fine . . you’ll see.

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      • #
        Andrew McRae

        Green Police? If only it were a joke. Audi has a solution to unnecessary green tape and unpleasant regulation and the solution they want to offer to you is… to agree to all of it. Great solution! Of course, you wouldn’t want companies acting illegally, so what else can they do under the circumstances other than roll with it.

        In the antipodes (and by that I mean Britain, heheh) the green rot is far advanced:

        Shopkeeper fined £300 by council for using black bin bags instead of grey.
        Owner Sangita Ibrahim, 47, said: ‘The shop was really busy and they came in here like the Gestapo. ‘Staff were told they would face criminal prosecution and receive a criminal record for the bags. I felt like I was going to be frogmarched away.’

        Now people could be fined £110 for putting their litter in the wrong bin in the street
        Throwing your litter into the wrong street bin will risk an on-the-spot fine and criminal convictions, ministers said yesterday. Town hall rubbish police, who already inspect household wheelie bins, have been given the power to hand out punishments for misuse of public recycling bins in streets or parks. [...] On-the-spot fines will be set at as much as £110 – £30 more than the street penalty that police might impose on a shoplifter.

        Now you may need SIX bins: Warning from Britain’s biggest waste firm over new EU rules forcing people to recycle more.
        The company has attacked the latest rules as ‘unnecessary’ and ‘completely impractical’, adding that modern technology means most rubbish can be separated after it has been collected. The firm said those calling for more separate collections are ‘trying to push an environmental agenda that they don’t understand’.

        Closer to home, two previous JN articles on the “green tape” theme are The Thompsons and The Warning from Europe.

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    sherlock1

    I know you’ll laugh and think I’m silly – but how does this fit in with the EU/UK governments trying to get us to buy electric cars, charged from the mains..? In particular, Tesla Fast Chargers..?

    90

    • #
      Roy Hogue

      You probably will need to hand crank your own generator. Good luck with that. But look on the bright side. It will keep you at home at night and out of trouble. ;-)

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      Power Grab

      You won’t be able to travel so far from the “plantation”, don’cha see?

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    James

    I don’t know if this is happening in the EU, but here in the US, a lot of states are moving to legalise the Whoopi Weed. Some parts of the EU drugs are legal already. All the EU has to do is legalise recreational drugs, and then all the drug police can search out for high wattage appliances at the border. ‘Quick, sieze that vacuum cleaner, it actually sucks, and grab that kettle, you can actually make a cup of tea with it!’

    Yes we must secure the borders from these dangerous appliances! The world seems to be getting crazier and crazier by the minute!

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    Andrew

    I’m sorry…smartphones??? My iPhone uses a 5W charger!

    40

    • #
      Roy Hogue

      You now will have to go back to a dumb phone. It will still have a 5W charger but it won’t be used as often.

      40

  • #
    Andrew McRae

    Firstly, Jo, minor nitpick alert here. Should “how a lower voltage kettle” probably be “how a lower power kettle”? The device could lower its power by lowering the voltage or the current or both. It’s not clear what lower voltage would mean because the grid voltage will be unchanged and most devices will have several voltage drops over various sections of their internal circuit anyway, so which of several voltages is “the” lowered one? However, courtesy of Mr Kirchoff, the current in equals current out (except for battery chargers), so that is a single current figure characteristic of the device which can be lowered irrespective of grid voltage. So I reckon “power” or “wattage” would be more accurate words in that sentence than “voltage”.

    Get in now and buy modern electrical goods while you can.

    Due to planned obsolescence being epidemic in the design of modern products, and has been since the late 1950s and allegedly getting worse, your advice here is always true regardless of EU shenanigans.

    ask for the EU to be amended. Your nation should leave now.

    Although some of the interviews with Nigel Farrage in the leadup to 2013 British elections have taken the shine off him and exposed the dog-whistle politics of his party, the one thing that hasn’t changed is Farrage is still eloquently sticking it to the cronies in the EU.
    Here is a recent example video where Farrage highlights the undemocratic nature of the EU, in particular: “I mean it’s like old Soviet times isn’t it. Surely a democracy means you get rather more of a choice than one.”

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    • #

      Andrew – Ohmygosh – did I say voltage? Oh no. Fixed that! Thanks. _ Jo

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      • #
        Andrew McRae

        Oh you may roll your eyes without injury, young lady, for the average punter would not even notice that little slip of the keyboard. But amongst ourselves, the exclusive inner circle of Jonovian science communicators, saying ‘voltage’ instead of ‘power’ is… quite frankly… shocking.
        So shocking I am going to have to press charges. :D
        For your great crime I sentence you to spend the rest of your days with an electrical engineer.

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        • #
          Richard111

          Hah! Good one!

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        • #
          Andrew McRae

          Look I understand in the humour game there is always the risk that someone’s values will be infringed and people don’t always have the capacity for humour 24/7, but can the red thumb above please explain themselves. I want to know what part of my above comment was upsetting so I can be more careful in future. Yes, sole red thumb, I’m giving you individual attention – if you’re game.

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        • #
          Len

          Rowan Atkinson has a Masters degree in Electrical Engineering.

          20

          • #
            Andrew McRae

            Yes I knew that already, good point Len. Is that relevant to my red-thumb inquiry above?

            Oh okay I see what’s happening here. The sentencing has been interpreted as meaning that all EEs are horribly boring people and that living with any of them would be punishment. I’m aware of that stereotype and was actually playing off that stereotype for extra humour value. But my only intention in imposing the sentence was that Jo would receive extensive remedial tuition in electrical terms and concepts from David, not that his mere presence was a punishment.
            So my mistake was to appear to give support to a stereotype by using it in a joke. I could have skipped it and said “sentenced to spend the rest of your days being tutored by *this* electrical engineer.”

            Having said that, finding a counter-example does not falsify a stereotype.
            I have no idea if the stereotype is true. I was using it for humour purposes, not actual government. Sort of like the way Louis CK makes racist jokes about white people in America and people just laugh regardless of whether it’s true.

            _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _
            ᴛʜᴇ ᴛʀᴇᴀᴛᴍᴇɴᴛ ᴏғ ᴇᴇs ᴏɴ ᴛʜɪs ʙʟᴏɢ ᴡᴀs sᴜᴘᴇʀᴠɪsᴇᴅ ʙʏ ᴛʜᴇ ʀsᴘᴄᴀ. ɴᴏ ᴇᴇs ᴡᴇʀᴇ ʜᴀʀᴍᴇᴅ ᴅᴜʀɪɴɢ ᴛʜᴇ ᴍᴀᴋɪɴɢ ᴏғ ᴛʜɪs ᴄᴏᴍᴍᴇɴᴛ. ᴀɴʏ ʀᴇsᴇᴍʙʟᴀɴᴄᴇ ᴛᴏ ᴘᴇʀsᴏɴs ʟɪᴠᴇʟʏ ᴏʀ ʙᴏʀɪɴɢ ɪs ᴇɴᴛɪʀᴇʟʏ ᴄᴏ-ɪɴᴄɪᴅᴇɴᴛᴀʟ.

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      • #
        the Griss

        Oh No !!!… Watt have you done! Jo !

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    • #
      Roy Hogue

      …ask for the EU to be amended. Your nation should leave now.

      Is that possible in the EU? They may have to fight for it.

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      • #
        Matty

        That’s what UKIP’s for, to frighten the other parties into making noises about ‘renegotiating’ the deal with Europe.

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  • #
    Mike Singleton

    Whilst the move might reduce peak energy demand it will reduce efficiency, due to increased thermal losses and hence higher emissions. Classic bureaucratic stupidity.

    50

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    Roy Hogue

    This is what happens when there are a bunch of fools charged with saving us from ourselves. They have no real job to do and all day in which to do it. Is this really such a surprise?

    I would laugh if this wasn’t so tragic.

    Do more than write letters. It’s time for a real fight with Brussels. Angry crowds should be descending on the place until the machinery of stupidity can no longer move, until the jails are overflowing if necessary, until hell freezes if it takes that long. Get your sovereignty back before you become a police state.

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    mwhite

    The addition of the kettle just shows haw stupid these people are.

    It takes as much energy to heat 1 litre of water by 1 degree centigrade no matter what is used to heat it, doesn’t mater weather the kettle is 1Kw or 1Mw.

    40

    • #
      bobl

      No, kettles lose energy to the environment, what you say is only true if the kettle is perfectly insulated. Kettles lose huge amounts of energy to the atmosphere through evaporation, radiation, and conduction while they are heating up, the longer the boiling time the more energy is wasted.

      If you really wanted to make an energy efficient kettle you would leave the power the same, and insulate it like a thermos flask. Not only would it boil quicker, you might get several cups out of it before you need to reheat it. Lowering power ratings might acheive this, but if it did, it would be by accident.

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    woodsy42

    Any suggestion that EU ‘green’ energy policy has created a situation where there is insufficient energy to run these appliances is of course simply untrue and scaremongering. (not)

    50

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    the Griss

    Ah.. the world of socialist totalitarian inefficiencies.

    Solar power, wind power, now underpowered appliances by mandate.

    Its way past time that someone told these idiots exactly where to jump off the train !!!!!

    70

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    Bribiejohn

    When do the appliance inspectors start work?

    30

    • #
      the Griss

      yesm… a whole new level of bureaucracy and policing will be required.

      More sucking from the public teat, requiring someone, except themselves, to pay for it.

      The socialist agenda writ large. !!

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    • #
      mmxx

      They may never get out on the job, because of the extra time needed to dry their hair before work with low wattage appliances and because of the infernal time delays taken to boil water for their tea/coffee breaks.

      30

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      Yonniestone

      I found some terrifying footage of a TV inspector at work http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EqG4ysu2ksU I believe that inspectors surname is quite common amongst bureaucrats.

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    Mike Spilligan

    Write to my MP? I’ve written to him a dozen times over the years on subjects which I know I’ve got more knowledge on than a score of those useless, self-serving charlatans. I always get replies which either answer a different question to the one asked or, more likely if it relates to EU madness, says that those 30,000 people doing EU jobs have the best information possible, so we must listen to what they tell us. Of course, he’d like an EU appointment himself – so he’s not going to rock that particular boat. We’re totally stuck with increasingly poor life-styles unless we withdraw from the EU.

    70

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    handjive

    Frost-affected farmers hold emergency meeting as cold snap damages crops

    South Australian farmers have held an emergency meeting in the state’s Mid North to deal with the fallout from unseasonal frost,
    a problem most have never had to face before.
    http://www.abc.net.au/news/2014-08-29/sa-farmers-meet-to-count-the-cost-of-frost-damage/5707118
    . . .
    Obviously the carbon(sic) tax is too high, or too much “Direct Action”.

    You know it makes sense.

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    TdeF

    So why not require all devices to be more efficient? Surely that is the core idea? Plus the inability of wind power to handle peak loads.

    However unlike say transport, there is a minimum amount of energy required to boil water. Apart from better insulation on the kettle, there is no way around this and legislators cannot require that water be boiled with less energy.

    My point is this reminds me of the 1897 Indiana bill which attempted to redefine PI to get rid of an irrational number. So they wanted to change the ratio between circles and squares, to make things easier.

    However there are some things you cannot change by legislation. That you can save energy by boiling water slower is nuts. It is what happens when unscientific people get hold of political power. They build windmills and tide machines, things they can understand and Europe is dragged back to the Middle Ages. China has seen the future and is accelerating while the Green navel gazers waste the accumulated wealth and mortgage their children’s futures by building new Stonehenges of windmills across the landscape. And new giant desalination plants in Australia, $100Bn of which are just sitting there, doing nothing, each costing half a million dollars per day for twenty five years, just to sit idle.

    40

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    Matty

    What about Electric Showers, where high wattage Electric heating as the water flows through the pipe is far more efficient than using stored hot water from a tank.

    (Aside:- Two fish in a tank. One says to the other, how do you start this thing ? )

    Is it the EU Commissariate in need of a collective cold shower ?

    30

    • #
      Roy Hogue

      Is it the EU Commissariate in need of a collective cold shower ?

      I can think of something more to the point. Jo would not appreciate it if I put it in print but the astute reader can easily guess it.

      Actually several possible things will fill the bill quite nicely.

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    Matty

    The Vacuum cleaners are gone from Monday 1 September, according to BBC Radio 4 at the moment. The BBC is even talking about the ‘ war-of-words ‘ on Climate between Tony & Connie the Commissioner Hedegaard.

    10

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    The Backslider

    So…. where is William Connolley to tell us what a great thing it is?

    20

    • #
      Yonniestone

      Probably drying his hair with CO2, it’s hotter than the sun dontcha know….

      20

      • #
        the Griss

        Maybe he uses gas. At least has an inexhaustible source of methane from that festering swap that is his blog.

        10

      • #
        the Griss

        Maybe he uses gas. At least has an inexhaustible source of methane from that festering swamp that is his blog.

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    JD

    The world really has gone crazy.

    10

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    pat

    this EU scam is giving it another try, with discounts, or even free*** -

    29 Aug: ICIS: Ben Lee: EUAA to EUA discount sought on aviation auction restart
    EU aviation emissions allowances (EUAA) are due to be auctioned from 3 September after around a two-year hiatus, with market participants expecting prices to be at a slight discount to standard European carbon permits.
    Airlines making intra-EU flights are required to take part in the EU emissions trading system (ETS) and the sector has its own type of carbon permits which can be handed in to demonstrate compliance…
    “The auction is likely to clear at a good discount of €0.25-0.50/tCO2e compared to EUA prices,” a research note on Thursday from analysts ICIS Tschach Solutions said.
    “If speculators buy a significant share of EUAAs, they will sell EUAs to lock in the €0.25-0.50 spread,” the note added.
    Airline participants could aim to put in bids as low as possible to test the market.
    “Airlines could be looking for a bargain,” Nick Soeteman, an emissions trader from Amsterdam Capital Trading said on Thursday…
    The discount of the EUAA to EUA settlement prices has narrowed from €0.60/tCO2e at the start of 2014 to €0.22/tCO2e on Tuesday, according to data from the chief secondary market trading platform Intercontinental Exchange.
    As soon as the cost of EUAAs reaches very near the EUA price, airlines may as well buy standard EUAs instead because they are not just for use by the aviation sector and can therefore be sold on to any market player…
    The policy uncertainty placed on hold compliance needs for aircraft operators for 2013 and 2014 until 30 April 2015 and EUAA auctions were postponed.
    However, activity around EUAAs could pick up next week once the auctions restart and airlines know how many free carbon permits they will get from government…
    ***It was announced earlier this week that 6.6m free permits will be handed out to airlines in the UK each year, while 5.2m will be available for German operators ( see EDCM 28 August 2014 ).
    Different airlines are likely to have different behaviour in the carbon market.
    “I think the big airlines do their hedging regularly”, the analyst said
    The auctions are likely to attract only airlines with a more sophisticated approach to their carbon portfolio or speculators, ICIS Tschach Solutions said.
    http://www.icis.com/resources/news/2014/08/29/9816277/euaa-to-eua-discount-sought-on-aviation-auction-restart/

    what a joke.

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  • #
    pat

    29 Aug: The Hill: Tim Devaney: Obama pushes green standards for everything but the kitchen sink
    Spurred by President Obama’s climate action plan, the Department of Energy is pumping out new standards for refrigerators, dishwashers, air conditioners, ceiling fans, furnaces, boilers, water heaters, lamps and many more appliances.
    The administration says the standards will not only help the planet but also stimulate the economy by saving consumers money on their energy bills that they can spend elsewhere.
    But industry groups argue the standards, which will apply to both commercial and household appliances, could slow the economy, and that the Energy Department is rushing the new rules while overestimating the savings. Other critics argue the push to regulate household appliances is evidence of a nanny state…
    As evidence of the rush, critics point to how the Energy Department has already finalized new efficiency standards for seven appliances in 2014, with another three rules expected by the end of the year. That compares to two rules in 2013 and three in 2012…
    Business groups say the new rules will be expensive for industry to comply with because it will require them to buy new technologies to develop appliances that emit less energy. That will raise the retail prices of household appliances, they say…
    Green groups and the Energy Department acknowledge the standards will lead to more expensive appliances but say consumers will save money in the long run on their energy bills…
    ***The push for tougher efficiency standards was initially ushered in with the 2009 stimulus bill, which included $16.8 billion for the Energy Department to promote efficiency.
    http://thehill.com/regulation/energy-environment/216186-obama-pushes-green-standards-for-everything-but-kitchen-sink

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    • #
      Paul in Sweden

      Misery loves company.

      10

    • #
      Roy Hogue

      The bull leaves its characteristic trail wherever it goes.

      But Obama is running into more and more dissent from his own party. I wonder who will be first to cross the finish line. Or will it even matter?

      00

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    Richard

    What’s the status of “patio heaters” in the EU these days? If you’re going to get into banning things, surely these should come first? The alarmists I know don’t seem to understand why I don’t like them. Maybe they are incapable of understanding – they mostly have ‘would you like fries with that, sir’ degrees.

    10

  • #
    Eddie

    Toasters are next for the chop . Estimated to use 7.2 TeraWattHours a year they expect to cut that in half by 2020 (Page 49).
    _
    The good old kettle though , as much a staple of British f life as the cuppa, their future is really up the spout, hoping to cut their energy use by between 5 & 8 TWh per year by 2020. (page 64).
    -
    The UK Telegraph calculates that Kettle purchase has declined as Brits are persuaded towards more elaborate & expensive gizzmos for making coffee, while most continentals I know make do with a simple plastic cone & filter. I find kitchen roll almost as effective.
    _
    A bunch of consultants are doing rather well out of compiling all this nonsense.
    Preparatory Study to establish the Ecodesign Working Plan 2015-2017
    _
    I see  Electric waffle irons have been excluded from consideration though, (Page 43).
    Quite a speciality in Bruxelles I believe.

    20

    • #
      Graeme No.3

      There is much waffling in Bruxelles.

      20

    • #
      Matty

      Uugh. You really do not want to be using kitchen roll for making filter coffee, unless you like cellulose.

      00

      • #
        Annie

        We don’t use any special machine to make our coffee. Boil kettle, add two heaped teaspoons of ground coffee to mug, stir and let stand until grounds settle, add milk. Tastes much better than anything cooked up by one of those machines. You just stop drinking before getting to the bottom of the mug…like Turkish coffee.

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    PeterS

    Clearly there is no end to this nonsense and how far it can go. Why not ban matches, and all forms of fires including smoking cigarettes, cigars, pipes, etc.? Then we’ll have to eat raw meat or become vegetarian. This is the boiling frog syndrome in action. One step at a time, and eventually they would get that far if the public are dumb enough to let it, which I suspect if given a long enough time they would.

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    [...] tänker de ändra på naturlagarna? Nästa steg blir kanske JONOVs förslag att EU helt enkelt lagstiftar om att vatten i framtiden skall koka vid 90 grader istället för vid [...]

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    Anton

    “the obvious thing is for the EU to legislate that water will boil at 90C.”

    It happens up Everest, where the air pressure is low enough. But you need GM tea or coffee, and boiling of vegetables takes so much longer that it more than negates the saving.

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    [...] joannenova.com.au/2014/08/eu-to-change-climate-with-hair-dryers-kettles-lawn-mowers/ ‹ UKIP: MIGRATION FIGURES SHOW WHY TORIES HAEMORRHAGING SUPPORT TO UKIP Posted in News © 2014 UKIP Derby ↑ Responsive Theme powered by WordPress /* */ [...]

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