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It’s on: Abbott’s message to David Cameron “Join skeptics in Aust, Canada, NZ, and India”

The Australian PM wants Britain to join an anti-carbon pricing alliance with Canada, NZ and India

Tony Abbott, Australian PM, has been shaking hands with Stephen Harper, Canadian PM, saying “it’s like a family”. They are both skeptical of schemes that aim to change the weather through fake markets which don’t do much to reduce emissions, but do enrich financial houses, lawyers and bureaucrats. Harper has applauded Abbott before, now Abbott is returning the favor.

The message is aimed at David Cameron, British PM, who has been quite the friend of the greens — leaving a legacy of  “collectivist, bat killing, bird chomping, property-rights-destroying wind farms”, as James Delingpole would say.  But Cameron got savaged by the UKIP skeptics in the recent elections. Signing up with Obama won’t solve that headache.

Obama, meanwhile, is trying to swing momentum back to costly climate action with his aim to bypass congress and use an executive order to enforce a 30% cut in US emissions by 2030. He’s on his own. Even the Chinese are watering down expectations (see below). New Zealand abandoned Kyoto II and tied themselves to the lowest value carbon credits there are.

Sydney Morning Herald has the video

All five Commonwealth countries now have “centre-right”-leaning governments but it is Mr Abbott’s personal and philosophical closeness to Mr Harper that the Prime Minister regards as most important.

The combined front would attempt to counter recent moves by the Obama administration to lift the pace of climate change abatement via policies such as a carbon tax or state-based emissions trading. It is a calculated attempt to push back against what both leaders see as a left-liberal agenda in favour of higher taxes, unwise interventions to address global warming, and an unhealthy attitude of state intervention.

Mr Abbott’s first visit to the US has begun on a shaky note after he characterised Mr Obama’s new push to reduce carbon pollution as a copy of ”direct action” being pursued in Australia. Mr Abbott is due in New York on Monday local time.

In a statement certain to raise eyebrows in the US, Mr Abbott, who is to meet Mr Obama in the White House later this week, underlined his opposition to carbon pricing. ”There is no sign – no sign – that trading schemes are increasingly being adopted,” he said. ”If anything, trading schemes are being discarded, not adopted.”

The Telegraph

“Like-minded” countries such as Britain, Canada and India should form a conservative alliance with Australia to limit action on climate change and to prevent the introduction of carbon pricing, the country’s prime minister Tony Abbott has said.

Seeking to counter Barack Obama’s efforts for international action to reduce carbon emissions, Mr Abbott has reportedly sought to create a “combined front” with fellow Commonwealth nations that have conservative governments.

During a visit to Canada, Mr Abbott called for limited action on climate change that would not “clobber the economy”.

Like Canada’s prime minister Stephen Harper, who withdrew his nation from the Kyoto Protocol on climate change, Mr Abbott has dismantled his predecessor’s policies and moved to repeal Australia’s carbon tax. He is regarded as a climate change sceptic and once referred to global warming science as “absolute crap”, a comment which he later retracted.

Mr Abbott, who is hosting the G20 summit in Australia later this year, has been resisting efforts by US officials to put climate change on the agenda.He has insisted that the forum is designed to focus on the economy and that climate change will feature under other topics such as energy efficiency.

Can someone correct the Telegraph on this?

Polls in Australia show growing support for action to combat climate change, perhaps the result of recent record heatwaves.

The only poll showing any hope at all for the dying fear of a climate crisis was the Lowy poll which asked a few loaded questions and offered hardly any skeptical options for answers. All the other polls show a long downward slide. And the message shows up again and again that when people rate the issue, climate change is close to last. As for hot weather, in May Sydney had a record run of  late Autumn warmth. I can hardly see that whipping people into a spending frenzy to prevent more episodes of global warming. It’s not like 22 days in a row above 22C is very scary. If it affected polls at all, the effect will be fleeting.

Meanwhile the Chinese are getting cold feet on carbon caps.

China is saying that the Chinese will be increasing emissions for a while to come, and they are not going to “impede growth”. As a developing nation they deserve special allowances, they say. This is clearly code for “don’t expect us to do anything”.

Reuters: – Any near-term regulation of China’s greenhouse gas emissions would likely allow for future emissions growth, a senior government official said on Monday, discounting any suggestion of imminent carbon cuts by the biggest-emitting nation.

Sun Cuihua, deputy director of the climate change office at the National Development and Reform Commission, said it would be a simplification to suggest China would impose an absolute cap on greenhouse gas emissions from 2016.

No decision had yet been taken on a cap and the timing of such a measure was under discussion, she said. Several options were being considered and China would choose policies in accordance with its conditions and stage of development.

“Our understanding of the word ‘cap’ is different from developed countries,” Sun told a conference.

An emission cap, whether imposed economy-wide or only on enterprises covered by a national carbon market, could be adjusted incrementally to allow for China’s status as a devloping country with growing energy consumption, she said.

Emissions have nearly quadrupled since 1990 as the coal-fuelled economy has grown by double-digits almost every year. China accounts for more than a quarter of total emissions.

The Australian opposition leader, Bill Shorten, threw his most intellectual arguments forward:

Opposition Leader Bill Shorten took aim at the Prime Minister’s ”flat-Earth views”, accusing him of being out of touch with Australians and world leaders such as Mr Obama.  — smh

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174 comments to It’s on: Abbott’s message to David Cameron “Join skeptics in Aust, Canada, NZ, and India”

  • #
    Yonniestone

    Trying not to get our hopes up is difficult but we just can’t help but do so, otherwise what’s the point of hoping in the first place?

    It seems current day revolutions start with a whimper as learnt, small gradual change is less obvious, let’s hope reason and sanity is fighting back with a very big whimper.


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  • #
    the Griss

    roflmao..

    Imagine the ABC and the Greens going bat-s**t crazy if Mr Abbott pulls this one off.

    Just the thought is highly amusing. :-)

    pop corn futures , anyone !


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    • #
      scaper...

      I got on those futures two years ago.

      Abbott? Not doing too bad for a Nigel nobody.


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      DT

      Christine Milne of the Greens is expressing outrage, nothing new in that, but she is attacking the “deniers”.


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      • #
        bobl

        Wish I could find one !


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        Safetyguy66

        Someone should pay Tim another $300K so we can hear what he thinks about it.


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        • #
          Andrew McRae

          But only on three days a week. He had more important things to do than save the planet on the other four.

          He’s dealing with his sudden austerity quite well:

          Flannery has a glass of sauvignon blanc with our first course, magnificent slices of local salmon with chargrilled asparagus, and a smoked chickpea hummus with chicken and pine nuts.
          “I’m drinking less and less these days,” he says. “I’m quite happy to go half the days of the week without a drink.”

          Gaia may not be quite so happy about his meat consumption, but as Tim rightfully says, he “needs the protein.”
          I mean, when you’ve been losing protein at the furious rate he has…


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          • #
            Peter C

            “I’m quite happy to go half the days of the week without a drink.”

            Well I am happy that he t6hinks that going without is good for your. It is indeed a left wing and Green philosophy.


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      sophocles

      I gave the arm-chair an oil-change and general lube two years, and laid in plenty of pop-corn and beer. Since then, it has been highly entertaining watching.

      It’s developing nicely and it’s going to get better! :-)


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    • #
      Steve

      Excellent…I have the opportunity to really tick of the greenies now from multiple ways at once…

      THAR SHE BLOWS!!!

      Man the harpoons maties!!!!!!!!!!!

      We be having Sky Dragon steak tonight…..

      Oh I enjoyed that….

      He he


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  • #
    King Geo

    Good on you Tony – stick with Canada & India – China don’t really believe in the CAGW nonsense either – those who follow this “carbon is good” doctrine will flourish & prosper while the CAGW believers will wilt & die in fact it is already happening e.g the dysfunctional EU. Obama will steer his nation towards “Economic Oblivion” with his “anti carbon” stance. Einstein was right with his famous quote “Only two things that are infinite – the universe & human stupidity”.


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    tom0mason

    Cameron will never, ever, go for such a proposal.
    He has his cronie business friends and his in-laws to consider, besides his political wife (Nick Clegg), the other half of the coalition marriage, woulkdn’t let him.

    Cameron has to lie back and take it while his scammer chums enjoy the benefits of raping the taxpayers and utility paying public.


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    • #
      Peter Miller

      And do not forget Cameron has a card carrying ecoloon wife, whose late father made a fortune out of milking subsidies on wind power.

      In the UK the rush to close down perfectly viable power stations continues and blackouts loom in the winters ahead unless we get some Mannian science to prevail and the wind blows hard during high pressure cold periods.


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      Joe

      I can see Canada going along with the idea but can’t see the UK being able to. Not too sure where NZ would fit in either as they have a lot of no or low carbon electricity and would probably be a net exporter of credits in an international scheme so would be throwing away an exportable commodity. India is going to buy our coal and uranium regardless.


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    PhilJourdan

    The UK is being rethrust into the position of world leader (the “Anti-Russia”) due to the abdication of Obama. Cameron will not join because he cannot (and probably because he does not want to).

    But the world is changing. I think Australia, India, New Zealand, and Canada – along with China – may become the BRICS of climate change. And I fully support them. The old leaders are senile. Time for new ones.


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    • #
      Lawrie Ayres

      While India and China are yet to achieve their potential and may still be considered developing nations both have a large and growing educated population, a people who are capable and willing to progress. Between them they account for over one third of the worlds population and on current trajectories will soon be the major world economies. The West would be very foolish to treat them as less than equals and that is precisely what the Europeans and Obama are doing. Abbott and Harper are on the right track. Cameron is a nobody going nowhere and Obama is his mentor.


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    • #
      Steve

      The world is changing – the atmosphere, and more importantly the oceans, are heating – and most governments are reacting as well as can be expected given the vested big business interests holding them back from effecting change. The good news is even die-hard, anti-evidence religious ideologues like Abbott are being forced to at least pay lip service to AGW – so when the tide inevitably turn back to more sane, progressive governments in the West – change will be swifter.

      And with the polls reflecting the majority of Australians already fed up with policy capture by neoliberal hacks in big business, that change may be sooner than you think!


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      • #
        Graeme No.3

        Steve:
        Many big businesses LOVE global warming/climate change or whatever it is this week. Lots of money out of thin air for thin air. Subsidies for building wind farms and subsidies for running them, and when they run into maintenance costs, quite often a government connected fund (e.g. Uni or BBC superfund) which will buy up the wreck.
        And if anyone wants their money back, why the subsidiary goes broke. See list of collapses in Germany and the USA.

        It’s a pity for them that with all that extra ice is cooling the oceans, and lots of freezing winters (both North and Southern hemispheres) public support is collapsing. You are 4 years OUT OF DATE, do try to keep up.


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      • #
        tom0mason

        Steve, you say “The world is changing – the atmosphere, and more importantly the oceans, are heating ”

        So to help you :) please try this -
        google ENSO,
        google AMO,
        google PDO.
        Now, do not open one of the silly warmist sites, that would be silly. Go to an academic site. Try and find a site that has pictures of these cycles with time scales.

        Note how these things naturally go up and down. That is because these natural phenomena are all oscillations. They are some of the natural events that ensure the climate naturally changes! Importantly note the whether the line on the picture goes up or down from 1975 onwards. That date is important because that’s when all the stupid global warming propaganda started. :(
        Now think real hard about greed, funding, egomaniac alarmists, and the ensueing politics since then. Daft isn’t it? Yes, and it cost everyone :( and you lots of money.
        Then come back, hopefully calmer and enlightened after googling these items, delighted by the beauty of nature, while having a deeper appreciation for some of the millions of processes that keep out planet from any of those laughable ‘tipping-points.’
        And also Steve keep in mind that we are between glacials (ice ages) so it should be warm.
        One last thing – stop panicing, it’s bad for your health.
        p.s.
        When you are old enough help the world and vote these expensive freeloaders out of office.


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      • #
        Raven

        . . . Abbott are [is] being forced to at least pay lip service to AGW . . .

        Steve,
        I quoted this small phrase out of your stream of dogma because it’s unfortunately accurate, methinks.
        This regrettable situation is testament to the truism that people will get away with whatever you let them get away with.


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    • #
      Rightwinggit

      Cameroid will do nothing, his EU lords and masters say so…they will also do nothing, despite Germany flouting the rules and building 20 new coal fired stations that burn LIGNITE, FFS!

      Albeit that, consider this;

      Russia just did a mega deal for fuel and engineering etc., with China.

      China just did a deal with the UK, including Nuke power plant stuff, which means not being ripped off by EDF, etc.

      China is a pioneer in thorium reactors, and the UK is loaded with thorium.

      Some arse covering and future proofing may be occurring.

      Cameron is still a plank though, I’m a lifelong conservative and patriot, and that creature is none of those things.

      RWG


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  • #
    Bloke down the pub

    Even if David Cameron did have the guts to wind back his ‘greenest government ever’ claptrap, his Lib-Dem coalition partners wouldn’t let him, so we’re back to waiting for the next general election.


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    • #
      It doesn't add up...

      Maye we’re just waiting for the first power cuts next winter before the Green rubbish can be ditched.


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      • #
        Rightwinggit

        Mobile cylinder heater in, UPS to run the gas fired central heating electronics coming, looking for a 4 Kw genny.

        There’s already been a blackout in Scotland, which was due to a wind drop, but some Jock politician blamed it on a smart relay, that merely did its job.

        The relay was made by Siemens, and did its job according to the circumstances, and I can’t see them sitting still for that false accusation…

        RWG


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  • #

    There’s another very large nation which is so skeptical of having less ice to push through it’s been showing strong interest in warm water ports on the Black Sea. Why lease Sebastopol when you really need to own it, eh?


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    • #
      Lawrie Ayres

      Well spotted. Russia is struggling with democracy but will succeed. It has the educated population and the resources to be a great nation. Anyone who can make the MiG 29 fly as well as it does has huge potential.


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  • #
    Olaf Koenders

    Message for Obama: Hope And Change.. Hope it hurts too :)


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  • #
    Don B

    Judith Curry’s testimony to the US Senate about heat waves, is that they are not increasing:

    “Summer heat extremes

    “Figure 4 shows the number of daily record high summertime daily maximum temperatures (Tmax)
    and minimum temperatures (Tmin) for the continental U.S. since 1895. The number of daily record
    Tmax shows no trend, with a strong maximum during the 1930’s. The number of daily record Tmin
    also shows a maximum in the 1930’s, but also shows an overall increasing trend since the 1970’s.

    “The EPA also cites evidence that summertime heat waves were frequent and widespread in the 1930s,
    and these remain the most severe heat waves in the U.S. historical record.”

    http://www.epw.senate.gov/public/index.cfm?FuseAction=Files.View&FileStore_id=07472bb4-3eeb-42da-a49d-964165860275


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    • #
      Ted O'Brien.

      Our local “record high temp” was recorded on 3rd January this year.

      The record dates back to 1991, when the current weather station at the airport was established.

      It seems the BOM doesn’t want us to know what the recordings on older weather stations were. After all, they were recorded with old technology and methods.

      Kids rule. The world started with me!


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      • #
        Rick Bradford

        So true.

        Left/Greens don’t believe in anything that happened before they were born.

        Since the Universe revolves around their own egos, how can anything significant have happened prior to their existence?


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      Safetyguy66

      “The EPA also cites evidence that summertime heat waves were frequent and widespread in the 1930s,
      and these remain the most severe heat waves in the U.S. historical record.”

      When CO2 was a LOT closer to 250ppm.

      So any warmistas reading this, explain to us again how getting back to 250ppm will “fix” the weather?


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  • #

    I have the utmost respect for Mr. Abbott. He is the only current leader of any industrialized nation to have the foresight and intestinal fortitude to take on the climate carpetbaggers.

    Instead of “Rule Brittania” it should be” “Lead Australia, Austalia leads the way, the truth they never will betray!”

    There is hope also in the US. After one party controls the white house the other party gains control. The US has been tolerating the worst economic recovery since the great depression. Eventually, we will go into another recession. If that happens before Obama leaves office it will probably result in the Republicans controlling both houses of congress as well.

    I pray that if that happens the US can follow Australia’s lead and put an end to this climate con job. If the environmentalist are finally exposed to the public for the misanthropes that they truly are we can then hopefully witness the fetters and chains removed from the US economy and enjoy the economic prosperity that would follow. If Europe also follows Australia’s lead we could actually see the greatest economic boom the world has ever known.

    Hopefully, Obama will not have destroyed the US economy before all of this happens. If he does, he will drag the whole world down with him.

    That being stated, I am an optimist! Thanks again, Australia and Mr. Abbott!


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    • #
      Ted O'Brien.

      Don’t fail to recognise Barnaby Joyce, the only small/medium business accountant in the parliament, who persuaded the coalition parties that this was indeed a political scam.

      He, from an agricultural base, spotted that the original proposal for an ETS, which proposed taxing very poorly researched supposed emissions by agriculture while studiously refusing to give credits for the sequestration side of ag’s carbon cycle would have quickly bankrupted Australia’s livestock industries.

      That would have rendered the 60% of Australia’s land area which is used for grazing worthless, enabling the government to direct that land into new ownership without compensating the current, bankrupted, owners.

      While that proposal is no longer on the table, the carbon tax is a Trojan Horse by which the ALP could have reintroduced those provisions without parliamentary approval. That is why Julia Gillard staked her career on the carbon tax. It was the last tool they needed to achieve their objective of a “socialist” economy.

      It is Marxist economic theory which is driving this scam. The purpose is to destroy private capital and eliminate private management in industry, no matter what the cost. These people really believe that when the economy collapses “the workers” will be able to walk back into the factories and make them produce under direction from a central government.


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      • #
        Joe

        Ted, I think our ‘workers’ have been walking back into factories to produce under direction of a central government for some years now and by that I don’t mean the Oz Government, but the Chinese Government. Our whole concept of the ‘Free Market’ is a little bit of a misnomer as in reality a very big part of our ‘market’ involves trade with China which is a highly government controlled country. A huge percentage of our manufactured goods comes from China. If China was the ‘free market’ that we all uphold, would it still be our main manufacturing base? Unlikely. The ‘free market’ that sets the price for our coal is China – how ironic is that? Barnaby raises the issue of Chinese ownership of our mining and agricultural assets too but somehow when the sales go ahead and we even bring in foreign labor with the new owners on special visas that is all ‘free market’ stuff. In reality our ‘free market’ is very much predicated on a very ‘not-so-free-market’ giant.


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        • #
          Ted O'Brien.

          The notion that The Market should be free is utter nonsense, so much so that it should be called a lie.

          The Market is not free if it is not free for all. Every act of government is a corruption of the Free Market. And if there is no government then organised criminals will manage the market.

          So “free” as in “free market” is a relatve term, not an absolute term. Yet so many people blindly promote this very questionable freedom on no other basis than that it removes regulation. No consideration of cost/benefit.

          And no condideration of the wider economic environment.


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    • #
      bobl

      There has been several stories on Bloomberg in the last week, about Republican party setting up the EPA regs as the central plank in the thrust for the senate election in November. My guess is they saw how carbon dioxide taxation and associated high electricity prices brought down the Australian labor party in a landslide.

      According to the articles, there are several coal state Democrats opposed to the regulation, and one Democrat is even proposing legislation to block the Presidents move. Those of you that live in the states need to lobby these candidates, including Democrats threatened by the regs to make it clear that you won’t vote for anyone who endorses AGW or Agenda 21 and seek to shift as many people as possible to do the same and register them to vote. Skyhigh electricity prices are very motivating!

      Jo, if you are reading this, Can you raise a thread on this so we can discuss the implications of the regulations on the people of the USA. We have lots of intell to give since we’ve just lived through 3 years of carbon dioxide taxation. We can deliver heaps of ammunition and perhaps our American friends can refer the honourable senators to the discussion so they can see what poop Obama is dumping them in.

      If USA sceptics either manage to kill the regs, or they manage to change the demographics of the senate away from AGW support, then I think the cAGW meme is dead worldwide. I see this as an end-game play.


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    • #
      Glen Michel

      I had my doubts and still have, but I believe him to be a decent man trying to do the best in the present circumstances.aside from the reinstatement of knighthoods he seems to be rational.


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  • #
    Tim

    At last, the cavalry has arrived. Let’s hope they’re in time.


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    Peter C

    We were warned about the Tipping point, the point when the system tips over into an uncontrollable reaction.

    Maybe, just maybe we are reaching a political tipping point, where it is revealed that the Emporer has no clothes


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    Rogueelement451

    Cameron as the British Prime Minister, was quoted several months ago as saying “enough of the Green shit” his words not mine.
    As all of us have said over and over CAWG was always about a political agenda and not a science agenda ,it is extremely heartening to see that there is a consensus beginning ,that spending money on “green shit” is not a solution to any perceived problem , but is instead a sop to the left wing parties to ensure a continuance of conservative government or to at least forestall the rabid left wing.
    Hopefully when Obama gets to meet Prime Ministers of various Countries who might explain to him how he has been sold down the river by his extraordinarily unbalanced scientific advisers there will be a night of the long knives when these corrupt individuals are turned out or arrested for crimes against humanity.
    Estate agents always say ,”location , location, location.” Scientists after 40 years should be looking at “observation,observation ,observation”
    It ain’t happening , possibly it never was happening and any way you look at it CO2 was not guilty.
    I really hope the Mann court case will reveal how much of a fiasco these past 40 years have been.


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    • #
      Apoxonbothyourhouses

      You fail to understand the mindset of Americans. Obama will not change after meeting the PMs of other nations. It will simply reinforce his belief that such PMs are sadly out of touch and need the benefit of his all-knowing wisdom. Obama and his ilk admit they are wrong and change their doctrine? The Antarctic ice would need to reach New York before that happened. Even then he would claim he “misspoke”.


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      • #
        bobl

        As amply demonstrated by his arrogance and complete lack of good manners in chomping gum at the D-day memorial. Clearly has no respect for anyone, not even the fallen. Contrast that to Queen Elisabeth, who far more poised and didn’t even need an earpiece (translation). I’m no royalist by any means but Obama VS QE2 – no contest.


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        • #
          Winston

          His selfie (with David Cameron) at Nelson Mandela’s funeral was one of the most cringeworthy things I have ever seen political figures do, and even though the MSM glossed over it, it was deplorable on so many levels, reinforcing precisely what you say.

          He is a complete puppet of Wall Street, like most of his predecessors for the last 50 years, and proves daily that the POTUS is the most corrupted political position on the planet.


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    • #
      Uncle Gus

      Dear Ghod, Rogue, you are such an optimist. It gives me heart.

      As an old leftie, I like Obama, mostly for the same reasons that the Tea Party detest him. I too would like to see him do a road-to-Damascus bit on climate change. I don’t think it will happen, though. Firstly, he’s politically too far entrenched. Secondly, he really believes it. (So far as a politician can be said to believe anything.)


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  • #
    Alan Poirier

    Thank God for Abbott and Harper. Eventually common sense will assert itself. It has to. The costs to our economies is too great for the voters to ignore and politicians who don’t respect the voters will be turfed. Obama’s days are numbered. Republicans will control Senate after November and there will be a Republican president after 2016.


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      PeterK

      “Thank God for Abbott and Harper. Eventually common sense will assert itself. It has to. The costs to our economies is too great for the voters to ignore and politicians who don’t respect the voters will be turfed. Obama’s days are numbered. Republicans will control Senate after November and there will be a Republican president after 2016.

      I hope what you’ve said will turn out for you Americans in 2016. This craziness has got to stop.

      On June 12, 2014; Canada’s largest province will be going to the polls to elect a new government. The current government in just 10 short years went super green, closed all coal fired power plants and installed thousands of wind turbines and in the process destroyed around 300,000 industrial jobs (not to mention they were involved in several humungous scandals that cost the province billions of dollars).

      Yet for some reason, the current scandalous government may just win this election outright or as a minority government. If this once prosperous province does not throw out the ruling liberal bums and gets re-elected, then I fear that the same may happen in 2016 when Canadians go to the polls in a national election and should Harper loose, we will then get an idiot Trudeau liberal government that will then push down the road that Australia has already been down.

      I have hope but yet I fear. I hope the people will wake up and do the right thing before we wind up as an economic basket case.

      If prayer works, please pray for us!!!


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  • #

    It would be great if David Cameron would join the Skeptics. But it will not happen before the General Election next May. The reason is that he is in coalition with the Ultra Alarmist Liberal-Democrats. The job of energy and climate change minister is a Lib-Dem job. It is currently held by Ed Davey who regularly calls anybody who questions climatology, or the UK’s absurd energy policy “deniers”.
    His latest speech, of a few hours ago, has a new way of meeting the looming energy crisis – a crisis caused by government policies. The Government will pay businesses to switch off power at times of peak demand – and load the costs onto everbody’s electricity bills.

    http://www.bishop-hill.net/blog/2014/6/10/british-banana-republic.html


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      Apoxonbothyourhouses

      Only extreme politicians have ideals. In democratic nations few ideals but lots of self interest. Years and years of rational argument on blogs such as this (and WUWT) have moved the perception of so-called global warming. But not moved it enough to get most politicians to actively espouse the scientific realities and at least plan for a cooling world.
      Pragmatic nations where the interests of its citizens are paramount – think China – pay lip service to the global warming religion all the while strengthening their grip on world politics and commerce.
      Alas it will take a massive death toll from hypothermia to get the gullible West to remove inept politicians such as Obama, Cameron and their successors.


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    Chester

    The Australian PM wants Britain to join an anti-carbon pricing alliance with Canada, NZ and India

    Is that what he said and meant, Jo?

    Funny how you can’t even write the heading to your blog with honesty.

    And also funny how the “sceptics” seem to know that Abbott and the “anti-carbon crusaders” mean something completely different to what they say to the public. And of course, this level of supposed trickery and deceit is ok, so long as it suits your agenda.

    Always good to come here for a laugh.


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      Rereke Whakaaro

      Perhaps you can enlighten us with what he did say?

      And perhaps you can explain to the rest of us plebs, how you managed to understand what he meant by whatever he said?

      It is not particularly clever to just claim, “that is wrong”, without explaining what would be more accurate.

      Without that exposition, your third paragraph reflects more upon you, that it does on the sources Jo used as the basis for her article.


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      PhilJourdan

      Here’s a thought Chesty. Create your own blog, and come up with your own headlines! Now I know that is radical and that is why you would never think of it, that is why I am helping you.

      And while you are setting up your own blog, research “editorial license”. Then you might actually learn something.

      But I will not hold my breath.


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      the Griss

      Oh look, Chester spews out another technicolour yawn of slimy pestilence.

      Keep bringing up that bile, Chester, you may eventually clean it from your soul.


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      James Bradley

      Chester,

      “And also funny how the “sceptics” seem to know that Abbott and the “anti-carbon crusaders” mean something completely different to what they say to the public.”

      Okay so you’re saying that Abbott is saying the opposite to what Jo is saying Abbott is saying,and then you’re saying that you agree with what Abbott is saying when he is not saying what he is saying.

      Just like saying CO2 causes the opposite to warming when what you are really saying is that CO2 causes warming except when you are saying that CO2 causes droughts because CO2 causes floods except when you say CO2 causes snow when you say that there will be no snow…

      Just sorta like that eh, Chester…

      You really need to get out into the world a little more instead of continually interfering with yourself.


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    Andrew McRae

    Mr Abbott has reportedly sought to create a “combined front” with fellow Commonwealth nations

    I’m not convinced. This sounds like one of Tony’s delusions of grandeur. Of course, his heart’s in the right place, but what standing does any Australian Prime Minister have to be making some of the bombastic statements he’s been uttering on this trip?

    He started badly by declaring Russia is a bully. Russia is indeed a bully domestically, but on the international stage that Abbott was talking about, and Ukraine in particular, Russia didn’t start that fight and can’t be called a bully for defending strategic assets from political upheaval. Upheaval caused directly from the rebellion that was no doubt funded and organised by the EU and USA. Abbott was either misinformed or reading from Obama’s teleprompter. Russia hasn’t been a bully since 1988. How is Abbott going to keep Russia in check, by dispatching a squadron of cranky flying kangaroos to defecate on Moscow? Does Abbott not know that numerous members of the Russian Academy of Sciences are climate skeptics and some believe the threat “is much more a marketing trick”. Way to go Tony, just throw the climate science baby out with the geopolitical bathwater. If Rudd or Gillard had made that same comment about Russia I’d be reprimanding them the same way.

    Then Abbott said Obama’s suicidal emissions reduction plan is a copy of Direct Action. Tony is effectively trash-talking his own policy with that statement. Again, bad publicity is nothing to this guy. It’s like he thinks he’s temporarily invincible, while the cackling Turnbull twirls his virtual moustache and rubs his hands in glee. No matter that the whole emissions reduction concept is founded on a false belief, which any of a dozen scientists in Australia will be happy to educate him about, he continues to act like it’s all a very good thing that a billion dollars is spent on Direct Action instead of more worthwhile projects. This at a time when getting the budget back to surplus is used as justification for major cuts in government services of questionable value. He has the delusion that Direct Action has credibility with any political faction, when it has credibility with none of us.

    Now we have Abbott leading the way to a climate skeptic Coalition Of The Willing To Do Nothing. When Rudd did a song and dance at Copenhagen nobody listened. Does anyone think this was because it was more due to Rudd being wrong on climate strategy than Rudd being Australian? I think it’s the latter. Australia doesn’t matter. We’re passengers on a train routed by higher beings, always have been. We are owned and occupied. Plus Abbott doesn’t yet have a success story on Direct Action, or as we say in IT, it’s still vapourware.

    Abbott leading the way?? Well I will be happy to eat humble pie if his gambit succeeds but the relevant history is discouraging.

    I can imagine his sales pitch: “Friends, ex colonies, conservatives, lend me your funds. Our opponents will offer you confidence, action, and a moral victory for future generations. I say nay! I do not offer you climate confidence, I offer you climate uncertainty. I do not offer you moral victory in the future, I offer you a logical failing today. I do not offer you emissions reduction, I offer industry lots of money to try in vain. In short, I…. hey, guys, where’s everyone going??
    Never mind that global warming science is a blunder, does Abbott’s climate platform smell like political success?

    Jo is right on the money to highlight the reluctance by China to decarbonise. The Chinese Cold Feet will ‘lead the way’ a hell of a lot more than the Aussie Big Ears.


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      Yonniestone

      Thanks Andrew for reveling that little voice that is present in the back of many skeptical but hopeful minds.

      A while back I believe Rereke answered one of my posts on fighting the CAGW scam with the question “Who, with what and how?” this is a very good question that cuts straight to the problem of overcoming such a well planned power grab, if as I said at #1 we use the same ploy as our opponents then it could be a longer haul than expected.


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        Rereke Whakaaro

        Yonnie – that was three questions. You need to brush up on your math.


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          Yonniestone

          Yes it was three questions that I grouped into an overall one, also “reveling” should be “revealing”

          However the question’s you asked struck home as maybe the most important ones that need to be asked after all actual battles are not won by using harsh language regardless of how clever it is.
          Which takes us back to the meme of this thread “Is Tony Abbott displaying the only method available to tackle climate policy?”


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      James Bradley

      Andrew,

      Except that Putin may well hold the EU to ransom with gas supplies.

      And that Putin orchestrated the Crimean emergency then opportunity pushed him further into the Ukraine when he told Obama his troops were pulling out.

      Just saying.


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        bobl

        Of course there is plenty of gas under Europe, but the greenies irrational fear of technology, in thie case fracture stimulation is preventing them from exploiting it. Having said that, just one cold winter without Putins Gas would change all that, and my guess is the Russians know that quite well. Greenies are Putins best friends.


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        Rereke Whakaaro

        Is wasn’t opportunity that pushed Putin further into the Ukraine. It was the FSB.


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        Andrew McRae

        Well I mentioned Ukraine only because Abbott has made a point of it during his world hobnobbing tour.
        I don’t see any sign of Putin orchestrating the Crimean emergency; Russia seemed to have the whole thing stitched up nicely until those pesky pro-EU crowds appeared. But to argue why is going a bit far off topic so we’ll have to sort that out another day.


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      Truthseeker

      Andrew,

      Maybe Abbott’s China visit went so well because he agreed to be the front-man / fall-guy for the Chinese to stop this anti-economic growth madness?

      Maybe?


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    Mikky

    Sadly the UK is no longer an independent country, it is now just a slightly rebellious outpost of the EU, now the most Green entity on the planet.
    There will soon be Junkers deployed again to prosecute the war on CO2.


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      Rereke Whakaaro

      The UKIP are the wild card. Cameron will be worried about them, and may just decide to go along with Abbott, at least superficially, in an attempt to weaken their voter appeal.


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        Mikky

        In the current coalition the Lib-dems run “Energy and Climate Change”, so nothing can change until after the 2015 elections.
        But by then the EU and UN may have “saved the planet” via legally binding agreements.

        My suggestion for achieving CO2 targets: daily power cuts for cities, evenings only to preserve the economy, and petrol rationing.
        I think that might change a few minds amongst the planet savers, most of whom live in cities.


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          Graeme No.3

          Mikky:

          The policy should survive so long as they have enough diesel fuel to get them through
          a) England making the World Cup final
          b) the week before Christmas (traditionally the peak demand)
          c) the coming winter.

          What’s diesel got to do with it? Well, there are all those emergency generators being installed at vast expense for when the wind doesn’t blow.

          I think they’ll make it over the first hurdle quite easily.


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        PhilJourdan

        I was thinking the same thing.


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    Robert O

    I see PM Abbott still believes in climate change, so do I because it does, but again why do you need direct action? Warmer temperatures if they become established, as predicted by the pundits, mean greater photosynthetic activity and greater sequestration of carbon anyhow! And most of this occurs in the oceans which are 70% of the planet. The problem is that most journalists, economists and politicians are scientifically illiterate and believe the snake oil sales people, and yet the real data, not the models, strongly suggest there is a non-problem.


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      the Griss

      This planting 2 million trees (or whatever it is) seems a bit silly too. Waste of money.

      When you look at the areas even within 200km of Sydney, there must be billions and billions of trees.

      2 million trees would be but a pin-prick on what Nature can do if given the right growing conditions.. ie increased CO2.


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        King Geo

        This tree planting might be worthwhile in WA’s SW in a line between Geraldton and Esperance, especially given that over 90& of the original forest has been removed for agriculture since the mid 1880′s. Clearly this has had in impact on rainfall figures. It is not surprising that the SW’s highest rainfall figures are currently recorded in National Park forests along the Darling Scarp.


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          the Griss

          Yep, Location specific revegetation with native species should be done, regardless of any climate change meme.

          I’m not sure this is what is planned though.


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          TedM

          Not quite correct King G. The highest rainfall figures in WA’s SW are in the karri tingle belt, along and just north of the south coast. However much of this is as you suggest with regard to the scarp; National Park. I work there.


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            King Geo

            Thanks for that Ted. So you are talking about areas like the “Valley of the Giants” between Walpole and Denmark. This region is likely to receive rain from cold fronts that just touch Cape Leeuwin & extend no further north, especially during the period late Spring to early Autumn. And being on the scarp, areas like the “Valley of the Giants” will benefit from the “orographic effect”.


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          Catamon

          It is not surprising that the SW’s highest rainfall figures are currently recorded in National Park forests along the Darling Scarp.

          I’ve wondered about that sometimes. The effect of clearing on rainfall seems to be a fairly localized effect as far as i know. Which is interesting in terms of the arguments i have seen made regarding the effect of large scale clearing in W.A. and recorded stream-flow into the SW dams that are in forested areas around the scarp.


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        bobl

        Thats true, the increased photosythesis from higher ambient CO2 has already offset all of Australia’s anthropogenic emissions, we are already at zero compared to 1990 just from greater plant productivity. However, planting trees is good, and if you plant the right trees, like food crops, oranges, apples, mangoes, bananas, sugar etc. You can sink a good deal of CO2 by turning it into rather profitable goods, or you can address say, the murray rivers salinity problem, or any other number of profitable outcomes. The way I understand it direct action was designed such that any carbon sinking has a verifiable outcome that pays for the measure other than CO2 mitigation.

        Personally, I’d go down an easier path and simply offer a tax credit for tree crop plantings. Profits to farmers, rural community aid, salinity management and harmless CO2 sinks, what’s not to like?


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          the Griss

          I guess I didn’t phrase that very well.

          Since it is just a pin-prick, it will have an disappearingly tiny effect on CO2.

          As far as CO2 is concerned, its in the “why bother” basket, like the carbon tax.

          (All the carbon tax does is shift the CO2 release to somewhere else)

          Planting trees for the sake of planting trees, all good and worthwhile. :-)


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      llew Jones

      It’s pretty obvious that Abbott still thinks human caused climate change or at least the part supposedly caused by humans burning coal is “absolute crap”. (He has made no secret of the fact that he loves all those centuries of reserves of lovely low cost energy producing Victorian Coal – for producing more jobs)

      He is however a politician and at home and abroad he is satisfactorily confusing those who would like to brand him a flat earther hence the little semi warmist public charade he and PM Harper indulged in.


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      DonS

      Good point Robert O.

      I don’t understand why politicians of the centre right and left (yes there are Labour pollies who are sceptics) feel this over powering need to affirm their undying belief in climate change. As a palaeontologist I know climate changes and has for a least the past 4 billion years but this is not what they mean. They are referring CO2 induced climate change for if they were not they would have not need to propose direct action plans. Direct action against what? CO2 of course.

      Maybe it is an transitional state to open scepticism but it seems politically gutless to leave the hard work to people like Jo Nova, Andrew Bolt etc. Surely there is enough evidence around for some one in a position of political leadership to form a convincing argument and run with it.

      The greens and their fellow travellers are never going to vote for Tony Abbott anyway so why does he bother continuing with the pretence? 2 minutes after proclaiming his climate change belief on the world stage Christine Milne gave a press conference and called him a climate change denier. Tony you can not win these people over so just get on with making an argument against CO2 induced AGW.

      The vast bulk of the voters still remain in the middle of the political spectrum and are open to reasoned argument, despite what the ABC and others might want us to believe.


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        bobl

        He does it because Labor has been jerked to the left by the greens leaving the right, and centre left to the libs. To appeal to the people in the centre left he needs a climate change strategy and Malcolm Turnbull.
        Actually there are a lot of social libertarians around too that want to be stewards for the environment but want economic success as well, many of them don’t know what we do and he has to be careful not to alienate them. There are large numbers of people still duped into the idea we have to take action.


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          DonS

          Sorry bobl I disagree.

          To appeal to the centre left Tony Abbott does not need Malcolm Turnbull, he needs a well constructed and reasoned argument that he can use to convince people to rethink views they have been spoon fed in school and by the media for most of their lives.

          Why do people think Turnbull appeals to the centre left or right anyway? He utterly failed to convince these groups to vote for a republic so why would they listen to him on anything else? His only appeal is to the greens and the middle class socialists of the Labour party who see him as the nice Liberal to Tony Abbotts bad Liberal. Given the school yard abuse he dished out to his critics last week I doubt he is much good at forming rational arguments anyway, despite his reputation of having a great legal mind.

          The government would be better off without him. His presence just makes them look weak and indecisive.


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    Dave N

    China is a “developing” nation? When do they stop being recognised as such?


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      KinkyKeith

      Good point.

      Like Indonesia they could buy and sell Australia many times over.

      I once came across some figures about backward Indonesia whom we current give aid to.

      There are 30 million people in Indonesia with a lifestyle, cash to spend, assets etc which few in Australia could equal.

      The world is a twisted place, Indonesia should be sending us aid but again we are being led by politicians smarter than ourselves.

      KK


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        Bulldust

        The who what now?

        Indonesia has a nominal GDP less than Australia (LINK).
        Even allowing for PPP Indonesia is only slightly ahead of Australia (LINK).
        Indonesia’s population is tenfold Australia’s (LINK).
        Consequently indonesia’s GDP per capita, even at PPP is almost an order of magnitude less than that of Australia. On what basis would one assert that Indonesia could “buy and sell Australia many times over”?


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          KinkyKeith

          Hi Bulldust

          I’m not sure of the point of your comment although my statement that Indonesia and China could buy and sell us several times over was perhaps a bit of hyperbole to make the point:things are not always what they seem.

          Indonesia not withstanding their GDP does have a very sizable population of very very very rich people who should be looking after their own.

          We in Australia have been sold a sob story by the Compassion Industry that they need our help.

          Yes 170 million of them do, to help redistribute some of the wealth towards the poorer.

          I guess my point was that Indonesia is seen by many Australians as a “developing” nation but that there are a very large number of very rich individuals there and that their whole GDP is concentrated in the hands of a relative few.

          KK
          Australians would be better off trying to solve the many social problems which we have.

          At the moment Australia can boast one of the highest youth suicide rates anywhere and we have appalling future prospects for many in our community.

          The perpetually and generationally unemployed are a result of institutionalized compassion ie “the dole”.

          “Compassion” is a wonderfully useful political tool as it gives those involved a warm glow and gets the votes moving in the

          right direction but NOTHING WILL REPLACE THE FEELING YOU HAVE WHEN POLITICIANS GET OFF THEIR AR$E$ ARE CREATE A JOB FOR YOU.

          There is dignity in work and so many Australians have been deliberately denied that right over the last forty years because of political expediency.

          KK


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            Bulldust

            Pretty much agree with much of what you say … “developing nation” is such a wide definition it captures pretty much every country outside the EU, US, Canada, ANZAC and Asian tiger countries. In fact the grouping is so wide as to be meaningless IMHO.

            Disagree with politicians creating jobs … for the most part jobs are created in the private sector. Sure there are a lot of civil service jobs, but they generally don’t create wealth, the private sector does. The best thing politicians can do is facilitate jobs growth in the private sector by providing efficient regulatory services (oxymoron?). Once the wealth is being created it is easy enough to skim some off to provide for the less fortunate (through no fault of their own). Anyone who thinks an economy can tax its way to future prosperity has rocks in their head. I am looking at you France… but I digress.


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              the Griss

              Only a small part of Australia is developed.

              Most of our northern areas are decidedly undeveloped.


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              Rereke Whakaaro

              Developing Nation was an alternative euphemism for, what was previously, any Third World Country.

              A Third World Country was one that was not aligned with the US (First World), or the USSR (Second World).

              The term today, is totally meaningless. All nations “develop” in one way or another.


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                Bulldust

                I thought the association was:

                1st world = developed
                2nd world = developing
                3rd world = under-developed

                Maybe they dropped under-developed because it sounded too negative. Never can tell with them feel-good bleeding heart progressives.

                I think we all agree the terms are effeticvely meaningless (much like denier) because they defy definition.


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              KinkyKeith

              Hi BD,

              When you say you “Disagree with politicians creating jobs” I do agree with that on a straight economic view point.

              Business can only work in a competitive environment and real jobs are created.

              My idea is simply that I would like to have back in our society all of the jobs which Politicians did away with.

              There was time when there was no dole but there were jobs for all.

              Pollies found it easy to bait people with a very substantial fortnightly cash payment out of our taxes.

              But there are very few people now on the dole who could not make some useful input to our society and there are many areas where these potential workers could add value to society.

              It has been done in the past but it rests on politicians to set it up.

              Work for the dole is a joke; real work can be found and in the long run everybody wins.

              KK


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                Bulldust

                I think there are also forces changing the job environment largely beyond control of politicians. Substantial changes like women coming into the workforce, people going off to wars and coming back, baby booms and associated demographics, changing technology such as the internet etc. best they can do is keep the laws relatively flexible so that the workforce and economy can adapt.

                Personally I think we are going to see the continued growth of AI taking over the traditional jobs … I posted this a couple days ago, and have spruiked it for some years. We have mines that are becoming automated, high frequency trading, expert systems superior to humans (think Watson learning oncology) and the computer power increases exponentially and shows no signs of abating. We are rapidly approaching the Matrix quote point of “never send a human to do a machines job.”

                This is hardly a dystopian view of the future, anymore than dishwashers and washing machines have freed us from burdensome chores in the home. Once the traditional sense of an economy with working for money to buy stuff etc will break down. It is already happening today with the erosion of middle class jobs … heck when you see old heads like kohler talking about it, you know the concepts are becoming mainstream:

                http://www.abc.net.au/news/2014-06-05/kohler-central-banks-rage-against-the-machine/5501714

                I see the signs of encroaching accelerated change everywhere … there may be some confirmation bias, but I think there is much more to it than that.


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                KinkyKeith

                BD

                I agree that there are a lot of problems with structuring any economy in the current circumstances, as you say, too many pressure points.

                My concept of work for all may be a pipe dream but the alternative of excess social security has not worked in Britain or Australia and there is a lot of human damage coming from that one.

                Europe is currently tearing itself apart trying to apportion blame for the mess they are in largely because governments and populations did not want to face reality today; lets do that tomorrow.

                Tomorrow is here for Europe and we aren’t that far behind when we have governments borrowing to pay their way.

                German voters do not want to carry other countries which borrow to maintain lifestyle and then go bust.

                That’s the stuff of real conflict.

                Your vision of the automated future is scary and that’s why I believe it is important to start looking for ways of keeping people occupied and contributing.

                But voters and politicians being what they are nothing will change too fast.

                KK


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                Bulldust

                To be honest I think The Matrix (without evil machines) is the most likely future. Virtual reality (VR) is becoming better in leaps and bounds. The boundary between humans and machines is evolving and diminishing rapidly – think bionic ears and eyes (these are primitive but already exist). We are rapidly learning how to interface computers and the brain (thought-controlled devices already exist – again they are primitive yet, but improving). The distinction between man and machine is only just starting to blur but the merge will gather pace in the next couple of decades.

                The end game is the shedding of the meat suit which is more a hinderance than a help in many ways. It got us this far, but it has too many limitations, especially when it comes to leaving earth.

                But VR is a natural step in the progression. Once it is good enough (i.e. indistinguishable from reality) it will also be better than reality. why limit oneself to the traditional five senses and the traditional limitations of the physical world? You know, silly things like gravity… As someone who plays MMORPGs in virtual worlds (sadly 2D) for fun, I see this as a natural progression. A lot of the time gamers use voice commuinications in tandem to coordinate their efforts in game. The person you are working/gaming with can be sitting next to you or around the world … makes no difference (except almost unnoticeable lag … 200-300ms).

                Virtual offices seem logical – why use physical buildings? The expense of the latter is an obvious reason not to. But when computers pass the Turing Test, why would I work at all in a knowledge industry? The virtual machine worker in the virtual world could do anything a human knowledge worker could. Perhaps the human is consulted from time to time for input? Not sure why, because the human will likely make inferior decisions anyway, so…

                Doesn’t matter whether politicians change quickly or not … the technology will overtake them regardless. Like Brandis wanting to legislate against file sharing … go to the Whirlpool forums and see them laugh at the Government’s chat about IP protection. One $5 per month VPN and any effort the government makes to legislate against illegal P2P is circumnavigated. The internet is beyond any one government to control.

                Like it or not we are gradually shuffling to an ever more integrated world … this is good because the incentive to go to war with each other diminishes as the economies become more inter-dependent. A bit like the McDonalds hypothesis (that no two countries with McDonalds outlets ever go to war with each other).

                Once we are in a matrix-like world, citizenship of a country becomes a bit meaningless anyway, so national boundaries become meaningless, governments become less useful. Who needs defence when there is no threat of war? Certainly don’t need to battle for terrain in virtual space as it is unlimited – except for fun, of course. Also, the greenies will be happy because nature will be largely left to its own devices. Let’s face it… you don’t need many mines when you don’t need roads, for cars that don’t exist, to go to jobs and buildings that don’t exit … all because they are redundant.

                I am digressing/rambling, but this is where we are headed as a species. I really don’t see much down side, guess I’m an optimist.

                PS> There are some ethical issues coming up as well … at what point will machines have rights? If they pass the Turing Test, how long before one has to address the question of self-awareness and conscience? Sooner or later your PC friend may ask not to be turned off at night ;) What’s the meaningful difference between a human created with some wetware interaction and a complex computer of the future created with hardware and software. If said future machine replicates the complexity and self-awareness equivalent of a human (and then moreso) who are we to judge? Especially if they are integrated with our consciences … it all becomes a tad blurry, no?


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      crakar24

      Dave N,

      China will continue to be recognised as a developing nation for as long as India are recognised, so the correct question is “how long will India be recognised as a developing nation?” and the answer to that question is as long as the train driver and part time smut novelist remains in charge.

      Cheers


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      Cookster

      Developing Nation is code for “waiting for western nation or UN wealth transfer mechanisms to fund the clean up of developing nation greenhouse gas emissions”. In other words if you are “developing” you can expect to be subsidized by the West. If you are a developed country you cannot expect any help.

      The Chinese in particular know if they make token efforts to clean up their emissions (like renewable energy), then Leftist fools in the west will use this as justification why we need to get on with the job of de carbonising our economies.

      Of course it will only help accelerate the closure of the gap in the relative wealth of China to the West (in per capita terms). On the flip side maybe one day goods made in the USA or Australia will be cheaper than made in China?


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    mem

    I have advised my broker to avoid anything that says clean, green or renewable. In the meantime the sharks and green bond merchants are pouring mega bucks into marketing to try and secure even more wet investors and superannuation funds. Don’t worry about the returns folks,just think you are saving the planet. In the meantime these guys take their very generous cuts for financial management fees.What a joke.


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      KinkyKeith

      Carbon “trading” last year was $2 billion.

      Whats 0.5% commission on that?

      maybe $10,000,000.

      Then the banks get to play with the currency conversion spread of 5% min.

      Good money for a few book entries!

      Long live Global Warming.

      KK


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      Rereke Whakaaro

      … avoid anything that says clean, green or renewable

      So you are not into agriculture, then?


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    Bulldust

    O/T but I find it interesting that a university claimed they had a chatbot which performed well in The Turing Test:

    http://www.theguardian.com/science/2014/jun/09/turing-test-eugene-goostman

    Which has prompted a lot of debate, generally downplaying the program’s performance, for example:

    http://www.kurzweilai.net/response-to-the-announcement-of-chatbot-eugene-goostman-passing-the-turing-test

    Wouldn’t it be nice if such open and spirited debate was possible about climate science without one side having to result to slurs like “denier” to describe the other. The missing ingredient in the AI debte is politicians, hence the civlity.


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      the Griss

      “The missing ingredient in the AI debte is politicians, hence the civlity.”

      Also missing is the left-wing green idealism that pervades the whole climate change agenda.


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    Neville

    This EIA chart shows the projections in co2 emissions from 2010 to 2040.

    http://www.eia.gov/forecasts/ieo/table20.cfm

    The OECD countries will virtually flatline (0.2%)for that 30 years while the non OECD ( China, India etc )will increase emissions by 1.9% a year. Almost ten times the increase of the developed world.
    The USA has reduced emissions more than any developed country over the last 5 years because of the take up of gas.
    And they are now back to 1994 co2 emission levels. Of course wasting trillions of dollars on this idiocy won’t change co2 levels or temp or the climate for thousands of years.
    Just ask the RS and NAS because they state this in their latest joint report.
    It is the biggest Ponzi scheme con in history and so easily understood by the use of simple kindy maths.


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      Have you ever noticed how, when you are shown tables like this, everything is reduced to the tiniest numbers possible, and then also quoted in percentages, also to make it look tiny, so (probably naturally) people see it it and think, hey that’s a tiny little number. How easy can it be to reduce those numbers.

      So then, now look again at this table. Note how under the heading in non bolded text it has the wording ….. billion metric tons.

      Now, look at the bottom line there for World totals. It’s currently around the figure 32, and the projected total for 2040 is 45.5.

      So, between now and 2040, the increase in CO2 emissions comes in at 13.5.

      That’s 13,500,000,000 Metric Tonnes of CO2 in addition to what we already are emitting.

      And that’s only from the electrical power generation sector, which makes up around 35 to 40% of all CO2 emissions.

      Nearly all of that is from China and India, in the main, China.

      That’s not all of it though, because China and India, and other Countries to a lesser degree are opening up new coal fired plants like there’s no tomorrow.

      Those plants have a projected life span of 50 years, and the ones opening NOW have every chance to still be operational as far out as 2065 ….. IF THEY STOPPED building them now.

      Any cutbacks in OECD emissions, as huge as they make them out to be, are in fact just a little greater than tiny in the overall scheme of things.

      Try telling China that they have to close down their new coal fired plants and see where that gets you.

      As an exercise, the next time any of you get in a discussion about CO2 emissions, just politely ask them how much CO2 is emitted from just ONE large scale coal fired plant in ONE year, and see what the answer is, and watch the looks on their faces as you tell them it’s (in the case of Bayswater) ….. 20 million tons of emitted CO2.

      Any cutbacks are so minute as to be inconsequential.

      If they want to make ANY difference whatsoever, then the ONLY answer is to shut them down completely, and believe me, that will NEVER happen. Any politician in power who does that will be so swiftly thrown out of office, he’ll wonder what hit him.

      Tony.


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    Safetyguy66

    Cow farts change the weather. Higher taxes can change it back again.

    Why would anyone have a problem with that notion?

    I think Im converting to warmism now I finally understand the realities. /sarc off

    Good on ya Tony, a courageous voice against AGW nonsense.


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    Robert O

    The advantages of forestry plantations over other crops are positive; that is well managed plantations growing on decent soils, and not those sold by spruikers for some tax or carbon benefit. An increment of 20m3/ha./an. is quite feasible, which translates into about 5 tonnes of carbon, or 15 tonnes of CO2.
    However, it has to be used for some solid wood product, plywood, furniture, construction timber, so as to keep the stored carbon out of the atmosphere.


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    pat

    i can’t stress enough the importance of the Chinese report in Reuters.

    however, although the MSM all subscribe to Reuters, NO MSM – i repeat NO MSM – is carrying the report with deputy director of the climate change office at the National Development and Reform Commission’s Sun Cuihua’s clearest statements that China will not be capping CO2 emissions:

    yet SMH’s Arup today is still using Sun Cuihua quotes that suit him:

    10 June: SMH: Tom Arup: Tony Abbott missing signs of world’s switch to carbon trading, experts say
    The world’s two largest economies – China and the US – are increasingly adopting carbon trading to cut greenhouse gas emissions, contrary to suggestions by Prime Minister Tony Abbott that other countries are not introducing schemes…
    ***. A senior official from China’s powerful National Development and Reform Commission, Sun Cuihua, last week said a national emissions trading scheme could begin in 2016 or 2017, but would be fully functional in 2020…
    http://www.smh.com.au/federal-politics/political-news/tony-abbott-missing-signs-of-worlds-switch-to-carbon-trading-experts-say-20140609-39t8q.html

    abc, which is not reporting the Sun Cuihua story, finds plenty of time for this attack, however, which is all about how the PM will get no support other than Harper:

    10 June: ABC The World Today: Eleanor Hall: PM accused of playing spoiler role on climate change and snubbing US president
    Dr Robyn Eckersley is the head of political science at Melbourne University and has been conducting research on climate change leadership…
    ELEANOR HALL: How much of a diplomatic snub is this to Barack Obama, especially given the US president’s moves on climate change last week?
    ROBYN ECKERSLEY: Well at the moment it looks like a significant one but I would expect that it would be moderated once he’s met with Barack Obama. Everyone’s probably heard in the news recently that he foreshadowed quite stringent EPA (Environmental Protection Authority) rules.
    So this is a very important initiative for Obama; he needs this to go through so he can go onto the world stage and show that the US is taking action, which would then make it much easier for other major emitters, particularly China but also India, to then follow suit…
    But in the meantime, you’ve seen China launch now seven pilot emissions trading systems in its province…
    So, actually, if you looked at a map of the world, you’ll see a lot of developed countries have actually moved down this path and so has China…
    I think that Obama has waited for his second term to really lift his game on climate change, and I think he wants to go down in history as a US president that actually has done something in this space.
    So he doesn’t want close allies like Australia engaging in initiatives that are going to make that harder. So I think it means a lot to Barack Obama, and I think Tony Abbott needs to understand that.
    http://www.abc.net.au/worldtoday/content/2014/s4022189.htm


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      Safetyguy66

      “Dr Robyn Eckersley is the head of political science at Melbourne University and has been conducting research on climate change leadership…”

      Conducting research on climate change leadership!!

      What a gig!! What a gig!! Where do you go to get these pseudo jobs? I mean seriously, I could take of my left shoe and stare into it at the label for 8 hours a day and come up with more useful information tan this person will generate in their lifetime. Whos paying for this? No let me guess….

      I recently made a joke that university funding was being cut because of too many studies into things like the effects of various thicknesses of latex on the sensitivity of certain organs. But little did I know that study would be regarded as world changing in terms of its value when compared to this time wasting, money wasting garbage!

      Congratulations Dr Eckersley, you have the officially most worthless job in Australia. Good on ya.


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    jim2

    Jo – This is HUGE!
    From the article:
    House Majority Leader Cantor defeated in primary

    By ALAN SUDERMAN and DAVID ESPO
    Associated Press

    AP NewsAlert

    Cantor tells supporters to keep fighting

    RICHMOND, Va. (AP) — In an upset for the ages, Majority Leader Eric Cantor of Virginia, the second-most powerful man in the House, was dethroned Tuesday by a little-known, tea party-backed Republican primary challenger who rolled to victory on a wave of public anger over calls for looser immigration laws.

    http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/U/US_VIRGINIA_PRIMARY_CANTOR?SITE=AP&SECTION=HOME&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT&CTIME=2014-06-10-20-05-45


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    pat

    apologies. by chance, i have come across the following guardian take-up of the Sun Cuihua Reuters’ article (no comments below). probably wasn’t in print edition either.

    my earlier searches were for “sun cuihua” with the inverted commas, so i guess guardian’s typo of her name as seen below, could be why i failed to find this piece in earlier searches:

    9 June: Guardian: Chinese official plays down emission cut expectations
    Comments likely to cool hopes in UN climate talks that China will announce sooner-than-anticipated CO2 cuts
    ***Sun CuihuaSun Cuihua, deputy director of the climate change office at the National Development and Reform Commission, said it would be a simplification to suggest China would impose an absolute cap on greenhouse gas emissions from 2016…
    http://www.theguardian.com/environment/2014/jun/09/chinese-official-plays-down-emission-cut-expectations


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    ColA

    Jo,

    Obama should check his own information first before he goes shooting his mouth off about bullshizter global warming. The US has spent millions over the last 15 years setting up the US Climate Reference Network USRCN http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/US_Climate_Reference_Network
    that is so accurate and positioned that it does not need “ADJUSTMNEATS” meaning the raw data is NOT TOUCHED. Guess what Anthony finds? There is no significant change in average US temperatures for the last nearly 10 years of records – if anything it indicates a slight cooling!! Well surprise, surprise, SURPRISE …. who would of thunk it?? http://wattsupwiththat.com/2014/06/07/noaa-shows-the-pause-in-the-u-s-surface-temperature-record-over-nearly-a-decade/


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    pat

    the Tom Arup/SMH piece also says:

    “A World Bank report released last month found the share of emissions covered by domestic carbon prices significantly increased over the past year on the back of trading schemes launched in China, California and Quebec.”

    28 May: World Bank: State & Trends Report Charts Global Growth of Carbon Pricing
    Globally, 39 national and 23 sub-national jurisdictions have implemented or are scheduled to implement carbon pricing instruments, including emissions trading systems and taxes…
    The world’s emissions trading schemes are valued at about $30 billion, with China now housing the world’s second largest carbon market, covering the equivalent of 1,115 million tons of carbon dioxide emissions…
    http://www.worldbank.org/en/news/feature/2014/05/28/state-trends-report-tracks-global-growth-carbon-pricing

    remember european states account for almost all of the 39 jurisdictions in the World Bank Report.

    23 May: Scientific American: China Finds It’s Hard to Trade Global Warming Pollution
    Pilot cap-and-trade schemes in various places in China have faced a host of difficulties, including a lack of trading
    At a climate finance forum hosted by the International Finance Corp. last week in Beijing, Xu Huaqing, deputy director general of China’s National Center for Climate Change Strategy and International Cooperation, said that carbon credits sold in the existing Chinese carbon markets already surpassed 100 million yuan ($16 million) as of early May…
    “After Shenzhen carbon market made its first deal last June, we had more than one month without any trading,” Chen told attendees last week at the forum. “We were wondering where hundreds of regulated emitters went.”
    The finding surprised her. Chen said despite years of preparations, many regulated emitters still couldn’t understand carbon trading; some even hung certification of their allocated allowances on the office wall because they thought it was an honor from the local government, signed by the Shenzhen mayor…
    Shenzhen also allows private and institutional investors to take part in its carbon trading…
    Unlike Western nations, China has prohibited futures contracts from being used in carbon trading, worrying that speculators will create turmoil in the country’s fragile financial sector….
    For now, China’s carbon trading is still confronting strong resistance from a group that is supposed to be the cornerstone of its carbon markets.
    “Persuading regulated emitters to participate in carbon trading is a big challenge,” said an executive of a Chinese emissions exchange who asked to not be named. “Some emitters don’t understand why they should do that. They think emissions reduction is none of their business and the government is just trying to make money.”…
    The China-style pricing mechanism then poses another problem. Jiang Kejun, a researcher from the Energy Research Institute of the National Development and Reform Commission, said that power producers in China face difficulties in passing along their emissions costs to fossil fuel consumers, due to the country’s fixed electricity prices. So it is no surprise to see Chinese coal-fired power plants frustrated, and the nation is losing its opportunity to leverage adoption of clean energy technologies with higher electricity prices…
    There is also an issue of statistics accuracy. Pinning down reliable data for carbon emissions in Chinese companies has long been a challenge because of doubts over the quality of their energy use records…
    http://www.scientificamerican.com/article/china-finds-its-hard-to-trade-global-warming-pollution/


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      Safetyguy66

      But even if we accept that China manages to get a viable, working trading scheme going. So what?

      How does this in any way whatsoever help reduce emissions?

      The very notion of trading emissions in both word and deed simply means the emissions go somewhere else, where as in reality, absolutely nothing happens at all other than some money changes hands.

      This is in no way an anti China rant, but this is China. They are a nation absolutely renowned for finding the cheapest, easiest and often copied or counterfeited way of doing things (and good on them for it). So if we argue (as many on this site have over the years) that you cant trust carbon abaetment products purchased in the EU, what does that suggest about how they will be managed in China? I think its absolutely inevitable that a story will emerge of millions or probably billions of dollars being spent in this concocted, fake market for air and nothing being done at the abatement end. No trees planted, no soil dug…. nothing… watch this space, you know its going to happen. I can see the dodgy CD copying industry licking their lips at the thought of selling fantasy carbon tickets right now, its a new gold rush for them Im sure.

      If a fool and his money are easily parted, then 2014 onward is going to see some of the greatest partings of fools and money in history.


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    pat

    of the Word Bank’s $30 billion market, what’s China’s contribution? Scientific American piece just posted talked of $16 million, People’s Daily says:

    10 June: People’s Daily: Xinhua: China becomes world No. 2 carbon trader
    China is the world’s second largest carbon trading market following the European Union (EU), according to data released on Tuesday.
    Xie Zhenhua, deputy head of the National Development and Reform Commission, said Chinese enterprises traded over 3.85 million tonnes of carbon emission quotas as of May 23.
    These quotas were sold for 125 million yuan (20.2 million U.S. dollars), making China a major carbon trader only second to the EU…
    http://english.peopledaily.com.cn/n/2014/0610/c90000-8739468.html

    is this really the extent of china’s CO2 trading? am i missing something? LOL.


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    • #

      ….. said Chinese enterprises traded over 3.85 million tonnes of carbon emission quotas

      This comes in at 0.075% of China’s CO2 emissions from just the electricity generation sector, less than one tenth of one percent.

      Tony.


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      Safetyguy66

      “traded over 3.85 million tonnes of carbon emission quotas as of May 23″

      But traded them for what? Anti emissions? Tree seedlings? I just don’t get how this is meant to achieve anything other than a new revenue stream for someone??

      If the purpose of the scheme (and boy is it a scheme) is to reduce emissions, how exactly is that achieved by trading paper with numbers on it?


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      the Griss

      And so the data manipulation continues !!


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        Steve

        Damn those scientists who actually know how to plot and interpret trend lines! We all know statistics is leftie witchcraft anyway! Humbug, praise the Jesus and get those pinko commies off my lawn!


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          Graeme No.3

          Steve:

          go easy on whatever it is you are imbibing. You don’t get pink commies on lawn, green ones possibly, but they’re more likely black beetles. in any case don’t eat them.


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          the Griss

          Gavin sure knows how to make fudge.. He should go into lolly making.

          You however.. have you tried janitor work yet,

          or is the dole all you need for the rest of your INSIGNIFICANT, WORTHLESS life.


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          tom0mason

          Steve,
          Watch out, some of the pinko commies are friends of some of my watermelons.


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          the Griss

          “We all know statistics is leftie witchcraft anyway”

          Well the leftie statistics I’ve seen certainly doesn’t resemble any normal statistics…

          … its much more along the line of tea-leaf or tarot card reading.


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          the Griss

          “and get those pinko commies off my lawn!”

          Hey, if you want them off your lawn, you have to control your cult members better.

          I’m sure they are only there to worship you…………..


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    pat

    those google al-gore-ithms kindly placed the following on their main news page today. nice:

    10 June: Crikey: Bernard Keane: Abbott and Harper renew a blinkered coalition of denialism
    There’s a certain inevitability about Prime Minister Tony Abbott and Canadian Prime Minister Stephen Harper standing shoulder-to-shoulder in an effort to stymie international action on climate change. That’s not just because they’re middle-aged white conservatives, which is defining demography of climate denialism — if CO2 caused baldness and erectile dysfunction climate change would have been addressed decades ago — but because they lead two of the world’s most carbon-intensive major economies, both of which are reliant on resources exports…
    Harper is now the senior partner, with Abbott the new deputy denier…
    Tragically, however, George W. Bush has been replaced by a Democrat, and one who has belatedly decided to route around the Republican Party’s denialism and use his executive powers to impose an emissions reduction target on power plants. The Obama administration has also made it clear for some months that it wanted this year’s G20 meeting to take climate change seriously, a potential humiliation for Australia given the Abbott government’s stance. Australia’s response to the US push so far seems to have been derived from Basil Fawlty’s “don’t mention the war” approach…
    Climate change is also a national security issue. If other older conservative males can’t cope with the idea of climate change, America’s military brass have no difficulty. The Pentagon’s Quadrennial Defense Review of March this year warned that climate change would increase the cost of future operations and increase the threat faced by the US…
    http://www.crikey.com.au/2014/06/10/abbott-and-harper-renew-a-blinkered-coalition-of-denialism/

    from Adelaide Festival of Ideas website: Bernard Kean, Crikey
    Bernard Keane has been Crikey’s correspondent in Canberra since 2008, writing on politics, media and economics. He was educated at the University of Sydney and has a PhD in history. Before joining Crikey he was a public servant, beginning with stints in transport policy and as a speechwriter before moving into communications and media policy.

    a message to Keane to come…


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    pat

    Keane: nice to see anti-rightwing CAGW folks like u spruiking for the Pentagon, even if the claims in their report were exposed as fake ten years ago:

    2004: NBC: Storm over Pentagon climate scenario
    Consultants present worst-case view: warming, then sudden cooling
    The Pentagon think tank, for its part, paid $100,000 for the report but said it was not satisfied and would not forward it to Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld…
    The report’s authors said their scenario was “not implausible” and would challenge U.S. national security in ways that should be considered immediately…
    But following all of the controversy, the authors’ consulting firm, Global Business Network, stated on its Web site that that the report offered a worst-case scenario, not a prediction.
    “As is customary in military and defense-related projects, the authors describe a worst case scenario (not a prediction) for abrupt climate change,” the company said. “They note that ‘the purpose of this report is to imagine the unthinkable—to push the boundaries of current research on climate change so we may better understand the potential implications on national security.’ Contrary to some recent media coverage, the report was not secret, suppressed, or predictive.”…
    The Pentagon official who commissioned the study, Andrew Marshall, issued a brief statement saying it “reflects the limits of scientific models and information when it comes to predicting the effects of abrupt global warming. … Much of what this study predicts is still speculation.”…
    http://www.nbcnews.com/id/4379905/ns/us_news-environment/t/storm-over-pentagon-climate-scenario/

    1 June 2014: Washington Times: Rowan Scarborough: Pentagon wrestles with bogus climate warnings as funds shifted to green agenda
    Ten years ago, the Pentagon paid for a climate study that put forth many scary scenarios.
    Consultants told the military that, by now, California would be flooded by inland seas, The Hague would be unlivable, polar ice would be mostly gone in summer, and global temperatures would rise at an accelerated rate as high as 0.5 degrees a year.
    None of that has happened…
    The report also became gospel to climate change doomsayers, who predicted pervasive and more intense hurricanes, tornadoes, floods and droughts…Doug Randall, who co-authored the Pentagon report, said, “Even I’m surprised at how often it’s referred to…
    Asked about his scenarios for the 2003-2010 period, Mr. Randall said in an interview: “The report was really looking at worst-case. And when you are looking at worst-case 10 years out, you are not trying to predict precisely what’s going to happen but instead trying to get people to understand what could happen to motivate strategic decision-making and wake people up. But whether the actual specifics came true, of course not. That never was the main intent.”…
    http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2014/jun/1/pentagon-wrestles-with-false-climate-predictions-a/?page=all


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    pat

    is there no-one at The Guardian to fact-check this jumble of contradictory statements, ad homs, etc? woe to any developing country seeking to better itself:

    11 June: Guardian: Elisabeth Braw: Aviation industry is carbon criminal, while supermarkets slash emissions
    Government data reveals best and worst performers in national push for energy efficiency in business
    Over the past couple of decades, CO2 emissions have come down significantly…
    In 2012, the latest year for which figures are available, Britain’s carbon emissions actually increased by 3.5%, mainly due to the cold weather…
    So how are our different industrial sectors performing? With a 63% (sic) in carbon emissions between 1990 and 2012, the aviation sector is predictably a top sinner…
    But Britain’s lack of legislation means that siginifcant cuts to CO2 will mostly come from progressive companies. “The UK in a strong position thanks to our world-leading legislation, but it’s at risk of slipping behind,” says Raingold…
    However, if you include carbon emissions from imported goods, Britain’s CO2 emissions have actually increased by 10% since 1993. “As a result, the UK is now one of the world’s largest net importers of emissions, with a carbon footprint that is around 80% larger than its production emissions, reflecting the relatively small share of manufacturing in UK GDP”, a CRC report confirms.
    That’s the dilemma: precisely because developing countries’ economies are growing, setting CO2 reduction targets becomes harder. And developing countries’ CO2 emissions are increasing at an alarming rate…
    If the world is going to control its greenhouse gas emissions, shoppers have to stop buying so many toys, clothes, cars and gadgets manufactured in developing countries.
    http://www.theguardian.com/big-energy-debate/aviation-carbon-supermarkets-emissions


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    pat

    the Conversation publishes couple who throw developing world & consumers under the bus:

    10 June: The Conversation: Tax carbon consumers to see real action on climate change
    by Henrik Palmer Olsen, Prof of Law at the Uni of Copenhagen & Laura Nielsen, Assoc Prof of WTO Law at Uni of Copenhagen
    One measure that could have an effect if enacted by economic superpowers such as the US or the European Union is a carbon consumption tax. This is one of several progressive ideas to be presented at the congress Global Challenges: Achieving Sustainability taking place in October in Copenhagen…
    As a tax on products, it would be a trade measure and would consequently have to be designed to legally conform with World Trade Organisation rules in order to survive potential legal challenges…
    A carbon consumption tax, even if introduced by the EU and the US, would be a unilateral measure in the sense that it does not emerge from an organised collective international organisation such as the UNFCCC (the UN climate change body), but rather from the choices of individual states…
    A carbon consumption tax would effectively curb greenhouse gas emissions in all countries that want to export their goods to countries that impose it…
    First, exporting is entirely voluntary – if countries can find other trading partners with less stringent requirements they are welcome to take their products elsewhere…
    Why not adopt a legislative framework that puts the burden on the consumer, rather than require nations to enforce against the producer?…
    http://theconversation.com/tax-carbon-consumers-to-see-real-action-on-climate-change-27563


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    pat

    bipartisan bill goes to Congress:

    11 June: WOWK TV: Mandi Cardosi: Lawmakers in Congress introduce bill to stop EPA carbon emission rules
    It has been one week since President Barack Obama announced a new proposed rule capping carbon emissions for existing power plants – leaving West Virginia officials frantic.
    On June 10, U.S. Reps. Nick J. Rahall, D-W.Va, and David McKinley, R-W.Va., introduced a bill to stop it.
    “Last week, the EPA unleashed its latest assault on the jobs and livelihoods of our coal miners,” Rahall said in a news release. “The EPA needs to get their head out of the clouds and come back down to Earth where the rest of us must live and work. We don’t need more regulation to solve our energy challenges — we need more innovation.”…
    Rahall and McKinley’s bill (H.R. 4813), which already has 68 cosponsors, would terminate the new rule for existing power plants, along with the proposed rule for future power plants. In addition, to prevent some sleight of hand maneuver by the EPA, the bill will aim to block the issuance of similar rules for at least the next 5 years without Congressional approval.
    “I have fought with our coal miners for years, defending their jobs, promoting their health and safety, and protecting the pension and health care benefits they’ve worked so hard to earn,” Rahall added. “So when someone picks a fight with our coal miners, I put on the gloves. This may be one whale of a fight, but I am not slugging it out alone. …
    http://www.wowktv.com/story/25738760/lawmakers-in-congress-introduce-bill-to-stop-epa-carbon-emission-rules


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    Al in Cranbrook

    You’ll want to check out this billboard that showed up in Calgary, Alberta…

    http://www.calgaryherald.com/news/alberta/Billboard+company+rejects+accusations+political+bias/9925995/story.html

    Certainly has Greenpeace’s collective diapies in a big knot, and the bigger, the better, eh!

    Jim Pattison is one of Canada’s wealthiest entrepreneurs, self made, and just happens to own most of the billboards across western Canada.

    Now, if we could only get the Gods of Sanity to arrange for about another kabillion of these set up across Canada, America and Australia…


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      Al in Cranbrook

      And I should add, big supporter of PM Harper here, best Prime Minister this country has ever had!


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      Steve

      Reminds me of billboards like these. Although they haven’t seemed to do much for church attendance, so I wonder if Pattison’s vanity project will work for the Church of Latter Day [Snip]?


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    Al in Cranbrook

    And I should add, big supporter of Harper here, best Prime Minister Canada has ever had, bar none!


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    pat

    the ultimate MSM propaganda piece; read the headline, then the opening….THEN FACE REALITY. coal is king:

    10 June: Bloomberg: David J. Lynch: China’s Clean-Fuel Focus Tests U.S. Coal-Export Lifeline
    Intense opposition on the U.S. West Coast, over climate change, rail congestion and damage to Native American fisheries, already is blocking new export terminals designed to ship coal across the Pacific Ocean. Now, China — which consumes almost as much coal as the rest of the world combined — is accelerating a planned switch to cleaner fuels, including a possible cap on carbon emissions and limits on new coal-fired plants…
    For U.S. coal producers, getting there is the problem…
    The latest setback came May 30 when Oregon state regulators put off until August a decision on the proposed Morrow Pacific terminal, the eighth in a series of delays that have frustrated investors and executives. Three days later, the Obama administration proposed regulations to cut carbon emissions, underscoring the imperative for coal producers to develop foreign markets.
    “We’re winning,” says Cesia Kearns of the Sierra Club’s “Beyond Coal” campaign…
    In January, China, the world’s biggest coal consumer, brought forward to this year a previously announced goal of reducing its dependence upon coal to less than 65 percent of its energy usage by 2017…

    ***The sheer size of the economy — now the world’s second largest — means that slower growth than this year’s 7.5 percent target won’t prevent electricity demand from increasing. As total power generation more than doubles by 2030, China will be adding capacity equal to the entire U.K. power grid each year with coal firing 58 percent of the system, according to a 2013 Bloomberg New Energy Finance study…
    ‘Staggering’ Consumption
    “Look at any projections of the amount of coal that China is going to use in the next 20, 30 years, it’s quite staggering,” said Colin Marshall, chief executive officer of Cloud Peak Energy Inc. (CLD), a Gillette, Wyoming-based company that operates three surface mines in the Powder River Basin.
    And even if the West Coast terminals don’t materialize, Asia-bound exports could continue via Canada or through the Gulf of Mexico to an expanded Panama Canal, though less profitably, industry executives say…
    The three terminals that are still alive — Morrow Pacific in Boardman, Oregon; Gateway Pacific in Cherry Point, Washington; and Millennium Bulk in Longview, Washington — could almost double U.S. exports…
    Though Europe absorbs about half of U.S. exports, Asia — with roughly one-quarter — has been a faster-growing market for U.S. producers.
    Since 2009, when China first became a net importer of coal, only the U.K.’s demand has increased faster…
    Under an urbanization drive announced in March, China plans to move 100 million more rural residents to cities by 2020. Five new national transport corridors will knit together the country with new rail and road links, supporting demand for coal-fueled steel and electricity production…
    China used 3.6 billion metric tons of coal in 2012 and is projected to need 4.8 billion in 2020, Liang Jiakun, vice head of the China National Coal Association, said last year…
    http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2014-06-10/china-s-clean-fuel-focus-tests-u-s-coal-export-lifeline.html


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  • #
    pat

    tell the Sierra Club:

    11 June: Bloomberg: IEA Cuts Gas Use Growth Forecast as Coal, Renewables Gain
    By Anna Shiryaevskaya
    Global natural gas demand will increase at a slower rate than previously expected through 2019 amid weaker economic growth and competition from coal and renewables, according to the International Energy Agency. …
    http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2014-06-10/iea-cuts-gas-use-growth-forecast-as-coal-renewables-gain.html


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  • #
    pat

    the pollie solution to everything – increase the bureaucracy!

    11 June: Scotsman: Ilona Amos: Scotland fails to hit target on carbon emissions
    Scotland has failed to meet statutory targets for reducing carbon emissions for the third year running, according to new figures…
    The recent increase in emissions north of the Border mirrors the UK trend, with reports showing a country-wide rise of 2.9 per cent since 2011…
    Environment minister Paul Wheelhouse: “The Scottish Government has put together a package of measures to demonstrate our resolve to meet future targets.”
    ***The package includes a new cabinet sub-committee dedicated to tackling climate change as well as plans for action on cycling infrastructure, energy efficiency, transport planning and electric vehicles…
    Gina Hanrahan, of Stop Climate Chaos Scotland, said: “While acknowledging changes to how we measure greenhouse gas emissions has on this occasion made the targets harder to meet, this shouldn’t distract from future efforts to develop a low-carbon economy.”…
    The baseline for measuring emissions has been adjusted by 5.4 million tonnes since targets were set. If the 2012 target had been revised accordingly, Scotland would have met it with 1.647 million tonnes to spare.
    http://www.scotsman.com/news/environment/scotland-fails-to-hit-target-on-carbon-emissions-1-3439870

    11 June: Bloomberg: Labour Plans Energy Board to Cut U.K. Power Bills
    By Nidaa Bakhsh
    ***The U.K.’s opposition Labour Party said it will set up an energy board if it wins next year’s election, giving authorities the power to force utilities to cut their bills when wholesale costs decline…
    The suggestion would mean combining into one body the functions of Ofgem, the Department of Energy and Climate Change and National Grid Plc in regulating and managing the power industry…
    The U.K.’s biggest energy companies are facing an inquiry into excessive profits, adding to speculation an overhaul of regulations governing the industry may be on the way.
    ***Centrica Plc and SSE Plc, two of the six biggest suppliers, issued profit warnings this year after their costs increased because of government levies for renewables.
    http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2014-06-10/labour-plans-energy-board-to-cut-u-k-power-bills.html


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  • #
    Sunray

    Thank you Jo, for enabling me to acquire a good bit of relaxed optimism.


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  • #

    I’m getting in early on this one.

    Tony Jones wife is interviewing an, umm, senior Democrat on 7.30 tonight.

    His name is Henry Waxman, and the sycophant Ferguson will be giving him plenty of openings to smash Prime Minster Abbott.

    This guy can’t talk when he says PM Abbott should not cruel Carbon Trading.

    With his co Democrat, Ed Markey, this pair attempted to introduce a CO2 Trading bill to the U.S. congress, back in late 2009.

    I was asked to review this for my site where I contribute, and it took me 4 parts to do it, so, I’ll include the links to all 4 parts.

    If he couldn’t get his own bill passed, I don’t think he should be criticising us here in Oz.

    Part One

    Part Two

    Part Three

    Part Four

    Tony.


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    • #
      PhilJourdan

      Waxman is one of the looniest on the left. And fortunately he is retiring. I would not waste my time with either him or Markey. Just immerse yourself in some mannisms to get the same effect.


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  • #
    pat

    a tale to cheer the hear of CAGW sceptics:

    9 June: Breitbart: Christian Toto: Obama to Talk Climate Change on Showtime’s ‘Years of Living Dangerously’ Finale
    Now, the pay cable has recruited the Celebrity-in-Chief himself to personally push the panic button.
    President Barack Obama will be interviewed by liberal columnist Thomas L. Friedman on the miniseries’ final installment, set to air at 8 p.m. EST tonight.
    Obama and Friedman will explore how climate change, according to Showtime, “can be a stressor that can take a volatile political situation and push it over the edge.”…
    http://www.breitbart.com/Big-Hollywood/2014/06/09/obama-showtime-climate-change

    “Years of Living Dangerously” doesn’t even make the Top 100 for its Obama finale!

    10 June: TVbythenumbers: Sara Bibel: Monday 9 June Cable Ratings
    http://tvbythenumbers.zap2it.com/2014/06/10/monday-cable-ratings-love-hip-hop-atlanta-wins-night-wwe-raw-major-crimes-hit-the-floor-longmire-more/272103/

    ***what viewers? LOL.

    9 June: Epoch Times: Zachary Stieber: Years of Living Dangerously Season 2? Will Showtime Series Be Renewed or Canceled?
    Years of Living Dangerously season 1 wraps up on Showtime on June 9 and ***viewers are wondering whether there will be a season 2…
    There’s been no word yet on a season 2, but it doesn’t seem likely that there will be one.
    The ratings have been so low that the show hasn’t been on the top 100 cable shows for its night for most of the season.
    Showbuzz called the ratings “dismal,” coming in at about 45,680 households for one of the episodes. At the same time, the free full episode 1, available on YouTube through Showtime, has gotten over 500,000 views.
    http://www.theepochtimes.com/n3/724937-years-of-living-dangerously-season-2-will-showtime-series-be-renewed-or-canceled/


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  • #
    Rogueelement451

    just for posterity in case it disappears from the Guardian as my first attempt did!

    Subject = Why is climate communication so hard?

    my reply

    “Let me try that one more time with feeling.
    I assume we are allowed to link to other sites as everyone seems to do so.

    ”Since the late 1960s, much of the North Atlantic Ocean has become less salty, in part due to increases in fresh water runoff induced by global warming…”

    Michael Schirber, LiveScience, 29 June 2005

    ”The surface waters of the North Atlantic are getting saltier, suggests a new study of records spanning over 50 years. They found that during this time, the layer of water that makes up the top 400 metres has gradually become saltier. The seawater is probably becoming saltier due to global warming…”

    Catherine Brahic, New Scientist, 23 August 2007

    Those 2 comments are a typical sample of why it is hard to communicate about the climate.

    Here is an unconvinced sceptic’s take on the scenario:-

    http://joannenova.com.au/2014/04/how-to-convert-me-to-your-new-religion-of-global-warming-in-14-easy-steps/#more-34624

    I suspect I am about to have nom de plume 5 disappeared and they ask why communication is hard!


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    • #
      Rogueelement451

      This post dumped as well
      Since the subject is why is climate communication so hard , perhaps a simple explanation is that moderators bin all or any opposing views to the mutual mental masturbation society of tree hugging ,leftie,alarmist pucks.


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