JoNova

A science presenter, writer, speaker & former TV host; author of The Skeptic's Handbook (over 200,000 copies distributed & available in 15 languages).


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Color me skeptical – the Gore and Palmer paradox

The Fairfax press say the improbable Gore-Palmer play was a win for alarmists. The Australian calls it for skeptics and says Gore is a fool. I’m not calling anything until I see the fine print. Palmer says he’s met P.M. Abbott and he was ‘encouraged’ by his climate plan.

The only thing I can say for sure is that the science of CO2 is irrelevant to both Gore and Palmer. Everything else is a paradox. We’re not being told everything.

It seems now that Palmer’s amendments to repealing the carbon tax do not include an Emissions Trading Scheme (even the Fairfax press agrees). That makes it look like a skeptic win, but keeping the $10b Clean Energy Finance Corporation is a win for Gore, and so is keeping  the RET (Renewable Energy Target) and the Climate Change Authority — it’s another government funded advertising unit for the carbon scare campaign. The more patrons who are dependent on the  carbon-subsidies, the more pro-carbon lobbyists there are. And they lobby like their livelihood depends on it — because they have nothing if the government policies don’t prop up their pretend free market.

Why would Gore  have any interest in standing next to Clive-Palmer-the-coal-magnate as he axes Australia’s carbon tax? Some suggest Gore was paid for the event, but the man got $100m from Big-Qatari-Oil selling his TV Channel — even a few million to be there yesterday (and we don’t know he got anything) would not make it worth his while. I don’t think Gore was here for anything bar the big game. He wants a global trading scheme (which might be worth more than the global oil market — we’re talking a $2T annual turnover). The rest is little biccies. A million here, a million there, so what? And Gore sheds no tears over the death of the coalition’s Direct Action Plan, because it was never really about actually reducing carbon emissions, was it? It’s about keeping Green Gravy flowing and window dressing.

More inexplicable is what Palmer gains from standing next to Gore. Part of Palmer’s appeal at the last election was that he wouldn’t support “carbon action” of any kind. Palmer, surely, is not aiming to win semi-Green voters to his voter base? Clive risks burning off more voters than he gains. This is not about the environment, and it’s not about voters, so what is it about?

Gore’s motivations seem easier to understand than Palmer’s. The election of Tony Abbott on a blood oath to get rid of  the carbon tax is a devastating break in the global PR story about the so-called rise of “carbon trading”. It popped the bubble — and it’s no accident Gore is here just before it goes to the new Senate. He wants to limit that damage and rescue the narrative that a global carbon scheme is inevitable. It’s all about momentum, or rather the semblance of such. Gore wants to go to Paris in 2015 being able to say “Australia wants carbon trading”. Perhaps he can finangle weak agreements from all the countries named, which each nation thinks is never going to happen, then present them as a fait accompli at the UNFCCC and embarrass them into meeting their agreements?

The latest developments are that Senator Nick Xenophon is leaning on two of Palmer’s senators — Ricky Muir and Jackie Lambie — to support the Coalition’s Direct Action plan. A political consultant of Muir says he hasn’t decided. Lambie says “no way” to Xenophon’s suggestion.

 

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Color me skeptical - the Gore and Palmer paradox, 9.4 out of 10 based on 70 ratings

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177 comments to Color me skeptical – the Gore and Palmer paradox

  • #
    Iren

    Jo, I will not rest easy until the carbon tax, in all its facets, is off the statute books. I want the whole kit and caboodle to go, but that’s the first, essential step. But it can’t be at the cost of an ETA which is even worse. As you say, that’s the greenies (and bankers) end game to loot the populace.


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      King Geo

      The impending LIA will bring the “Warmists” undone – using David’s “Solar Delay Model” then that should start in the not too distant future – the last high Solar Cycle peak (SL 23) occurred ~ 2002. SL 24 (a much lower solar peak) is just peaking now. So from 2002 (SL 23 peak) + 11 years, ie about now – expect planet Earth to move into a protracted “cooling cycle” – there is nothing that us Homo Sapiens can do to stop this natural “cooling”.


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        the Griss

        Why do you think there is such a PANIC to get carbon trading schemes in place.

        They KNOW what is coming… and they are getting DESPERATE !!


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          King Geo

          True true. For the “Warmists” the clock is ticking “tick tick tick” – even your Joe average in the street will notice the “cooling” in the neat future prompting comments like “hey man it is so cool – this global warming stuff is bull….”.


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          Ted O'Brien.

          I suggest that the chief of panics is Al Gore. Surely few if any around the world have more to lose than Al Gore should carbon markets collapse. Should Australia repeal its carbon tax, that will further depress world carbon markets.

          When you look at it all, there is no significant news for Australia in this Palmer/Gore event.

          So I now suggest that this event was staged not for Australian consumption, but for overseas consumption.

          So, why then?

          When Al Gore takes this video around the world how many of the people he shows it to will know that Clive Palmer is not the “President” of Australia?

          But, what’s in it for Clive? One day the headlines told us he “lost” a billion dollars. Next day, out of the blue, we get this.

          A question I would like answered. Who paid the costs for this event? Or did Clive just sucker the media in. Again. Even so, who paid what?

          I would expect that the global carbon traders might have the power to harm Clive Palmer’s personal business. That should be a worry.


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          • #
            Rod Stuart

            Ted
            Did you watch the Bolt Report this morning?
            Bolt has it figured out. The purpose of the exercise was to persuade Clive not to co-operate on dismantling the RET. Gore doesn’t give a damn about the carbon tax, but he making a bundle out of the RET and likely clued Palmer into how he can as well.
            The vehicle is Generation Investment Management (GIM). Bolt had documents this morning. The scam is explained here, posted by Tim on weekend unthreaded.


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        Aaron M

        Yeah, and worse still, if they get it through in time, they’ll attribute any cooling DIRECTLY to their efforts. No one will able to say or do otherwise, such will be their overwhelming consensus!


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          the Griss

          But of course, and thankfully, the atmospheric CO2 level will keep rising ! :-)


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          • #

            If CO2 contributed nothing to any warming, it cannot affect any cooling. A large nuclear reactor every 10 km in any dirction anyone.
            David’s paper may lay waste to the concept that Solar “radiation” determines the surface temperature of the earth. Solar radiation does not determine the temperature of any of the four gas giants, what does? Perhaps Force Lubos and the conservation of angular momentum, determine temperature! Solar irradiance being perhaps 10% of of the whole effect, may only influence day night variances and provide a method of moving water uphill. David said “radiation to space” is the only way to dissipate energy! Perhaps all thermal radiation is only a way to discard useless energy to something colder (bye, bye, entropy).


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          • #
            john robertson

            Except the IPCC will next go Oops, we had the sign wrong, CO2 causes Cooling, same solution applies.
            Give up your wealth, freedom and ultimately lives, to save the planet.


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    • #
      Truthseeker

      Jo – it is “Colour” not “Color”. We are not Americans.


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      Rod Stuart

      Maybe he sees himself as the Grand Negus?


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      Bulldust

      Speaking of aliens…

      http://www.smh.com.au/federal-politics/political-opinion/a-guide-to-al-gore-and-clive-palmers-cosmic-connection-20140626-3auzd.html

      Best piece I have read in the SMH for ages (just google if paywalled, yadda, yadda).


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    • #

      Pickering also knows a Ferengi when he sees one.

      Rule 98: Every man has his price.
      Rule 82: The flimsier the product, the higher the price.


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      EyesWideOpen

      At first I could not believe what I was looking at when I turned on the propaganda machine over breakfast and saw Palmer and Gore.
      Then I sighed, and was somewhat vindicated as I had stated to all my mates at the election to ‘Just vote for the Lib’s or you will log jam the Senate, and Clive is a populist who will upset the apple cart just for the sake of it in order to look like a voice of public opinion. He simply has an inferiority complex, and his capital is the fuel and politics is his new fire.’ … many of them voted for Palmer. Sigh. Senate is log jammed, they all hang their heads in shame, and I give them dirty disagreeable looks … nothing is said but they all know their crime against common sense.

      When will the Australian public learn that unfortunately a 2 party system is the only way to ensure Election Mandates can be carried, and broken promises on both sides held clearly to account? Otherwise party’s can claim that they had to give way to minor party’s, and they get off scott free when they change their policies… Make them lie openly I say. We all know what the Fabians (sorry, Labor) are all about now, I wanted to give the Libs a chance to redeem Australian Politics but once again … log jam. Sigh.

      An ETS was the end game to start with. If Abbott (or Turnbull if there is a coup) moves to an ETS then Australians would have been stabbed in the back by Labor, Libs, Greens and Palmer; the whole parliament at this point would visibly be a house of harlots with no exception, Democracy is dead (if it was ever there in the first place).

      Didn’t Palmer have a secret (not so secret) meeting with Turnbull (Mr Goldman Sachs) whilst Abbott was overseas? Can everyone hear the pigeons … Coup, Coup, Coup.
      Turnbull will declare ‘it was the Carbon Tax that the public was actually against, the solution will be a much more honest system called Emissions Trading, as a ex Goldman Sachs man I know what I am talking about … a compromise none the less, but at least we are doing something for the children’.
      Compromise my a**, this is all starting to look very much like Australia was sold to International Finance and Derivatives Traders a long time ago, but that the vacillation and stall tactic politics is the required lipstick on the pig to seal this deal conceived in pure iniquity.

      Oh, and after repeal legislation is passed by the Senate and signed into law by the Governor General, does everyone realize that the Queen has up to 1 year to reverse the Law? (This has never been done but it is one of the Queen’s specially reserved ‘Royal Prerogatives’ under Commonwealth Law. And Charlie boy is all over the Carbon scam like honey on pooh bear’s paws.)


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    Rod Stuart

    Maybe I’m paranoid.
    Or maybe I’m looking at the big picture.
    But either way it seems to me that the following tie together to say that some really huge world events are in the immediate future. Consider:
    a) The situation in the Ukraine
    b) The turmoil in Iraq
    c) The feasibility that the US congress might gain the courage to impeach Obama. (Lord knows there is plenty of justification already, not to mention his fake birth certificate).
    d) The activity along the Mexican border, where the border is weakened where it is already weakest at the border of Arizona and New Mexico)
    This irregular interference in Australian affairs.
    The activities of Islamic extremists ramping up in many Asian and African countries.
    e) The current vulnerability of the global financial system.
    f) The recent cosy Sino-Soviet behaviour.
    g) The friction between China and Japan, and Viet Nam, etc.
    h) The fragility of the Chinese financial markets.
    i) Several tonnes of WMD’s en route to Port Arthur, Texas.
    etc.

    A fraction too much friction. Something big is about to pop. And soon.


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      Ron Cook

      You forgot to mention North Korea.


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      • #
        OriginalSteve

        Youre right – NK is the drugged addled weirdo next door who you couldnt trust with even a pot plant. But the reality is they atre just playing their “role” to maintain tension in the area.

        My prediction is that they will at some stage kick off a big nuclear threat – the chinese and russians armed them a long time ago, all the “nuclear tests” are mostly theatre to cover the fact ( just like Iran ) they had viable tactical nukes for 10+ years.

        When it does go, it will be big.

        Self sufficiency in food, water & power will be critical. Oh and some form of self defence capability too. Chaos creates threats out of people who when times are good are happily placated.


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    • #
      Kevin Lohse

      May I add an expansionist EU to that list?


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    • #

      You forgot that the USA is on the road to end Drug Prohibition. A socialist program – price supports for criminals – that the Republicans here are in LOVE with. Expect 2 or 3 more States will have legalized cannabis by Nov. 2014. So far 31 States have some kind of Medical Cannabis law.

      And for those of you unaware – World Wide Drug Prohibition is a UN Program.

      This might be of some amusement. http://www.ctrl.org/boodleboys/boddlesboys2.html


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      Robert

      Also bear in mind that while our most honorable Al Gore /sarc is down there cooking something up with your Palmer, here at home in the US the billionaire Tom Steyer is meeting with Obama as they cook up a scare campaign to warn us all about the HUGE ecomomic damage climate change will cause:

      White House, Tom Steyer to meet on climate

      We already know this yutz dumps a ton of money into the democrat election campaigns and is planning on getting into politics himself. Honestly, given his financial contributions and current wealth I hear about this and read the headline as “Billionaire meets with white house to see how much it will cost for him to get his way”

      But then I am getting a bit cynical as the years go by…


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      Manfred

      A fraction too much friction. Something big is about to pop. And soon.

      I’m less sure that there’s any less friction now than global ‘business as usual’. MSM reporting bias, as with the climate / weather highlights the direction in which Progressive bureaucratic totalitarianism desires to head. We’re simply being groomed…..highlight the problem, provide the solution. If there’s any ‘popping’ to be done, it is when the extraordinary, mind numbing patience of the many finally runs out.

      The political farce being played out in Australia that personifies a lack of transparency, indeed of subterfuge, in which an elected representative is seen to posture in an utterly unfathomable manner that results in speculation injures society. Does it also serve to highlight a ‘brokeness’ in the moral fibre of those elected, one in which they apparently detach from their mandates and electorate once installed ?

      Here: EPA Enforcers: ‘Way Of Life Act’ Needed;’ ‘Individual Change’ Isn’t Enough’. The answer: “Leaked Lib Megadonor Doc: ‘Fundamentally Change Our Current Political System’
      Here
      “After talking about the “pronounced financial advantage” of conservatives, the briefing book assured liberals that “[w]hat progressives have is a strong infrastructure – built up and supported by Democracy Alliance (DA) Partners and other allied funders – that is innovative, collaborative, and deeply invested in mobilizing the key constituencies that will constitute the new American majority.”

      Here: “Obama Mocks Climate Skeptics in Congress: ‘I’m Going to Just Pretend…I Can’t Read’Obama said he wasn’t a scientist either, although he had access to “a bunch of scientists,” such as those at NASA and the Environmental Protection Agency. “I’m not a doctor either, but if a bunch of doctors tell me that tobacco can cause lung cancer, then I’ll say okay. Right? I mean, it’s not that hard.”

      Here: “At a time when debate is raging over the assertion that 97 percent of scientists endorse man-made global warming, Secretary of State John Kerry – a frequent citer of the 97 percent figure –in a speech Wednesday upped the figure to “at least 98, 99 percent.”

      Here: “Regional Administrators talk of how they plan to “crucify” domestic energy producers, make their businesses “painful every step of the way,” or otherwise compel a green way-of-life.”

      Can it really be any less clear ?


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    • #
      Safetyguy66

      Well I hope your right Rod. I have been pouring money into gold and silver for 2 years. In the past 2 weeks the creep from the global tensions has finally started to appear in the price. We just need a few more outbreaks of violence in countries the USA has resource interests in and a bloke might make some money.


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      • #
        OriginalSteve

        Youre going to need way more than gold & silver….

        The scale will be beyond severe shock to most people when it does let go.

        Think no food, collapsed markets and general chaos….perfect situation to create a “solution” from.

        “Order from chaos”


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  • #
    Kevin Lohse

    One of my Australian contacts, with a life-time in mining, tells me that Palmer’s interests are being kept afloat with Chinese money. It couldn’t possibly be that Palmer has a desperate need to be noticed, similar to that of the smallest member of the ‘hood gang, could it?


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    • #
      Rod Stuart

      Palmer is no business man.
      He was a rotten real estate agent that stumbled across a windfall profit. And that is even of questionable legality.

      Hemmingway is reported to have said, in response to the question, “How did you go bankrupt?” “VERY QUICKLY”. He then elaborated to say that one gets wealthy slowly, but bankrupt very quickly.

      Palmer is a hair’s breadth away from a punishing suit by the Chinese government, and is in grave danger of having his nickel refinery shut down for environmental discharge infractions. He is a litigation addict. Sooner or later, his house of cards will collapse. It is a sad day when one can buy an election result in order to sway the welfare of an entire country.


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    • #

      I also have had a lifetime in mining in Australia.
      Cape Preston is a joke – it always has been and always will be – just ask CITIC (the mugs that Palmer hocked it to). It will never turn a profit, nor generate cash.
      Queensland Nickel is a dog. It has only ever made cash (profit????) with sky high nickel prices – and they ain’t sky high at present.
      The Palmer deposit in the Galilee Basin is marginal at best and will NEVER, EVER stand without someone else sharing the rail and port capital costs.
      Palmer is NOT a miner.
      Palmer is NOT a mining magnate and everyone in the Australian mining industry feels insulted when the media does refer to him as a “Mining Magnate”.
      A real estate shyster, yes, but NOT a mining magnate.
      (is my message getting through????)


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        Ross

        Interesting. I remember during the period leading up to your election( I’m a Kiwi) Andrew Bolt referred to Palmer as a buffoon and I could not understand it, especially when Bolt and Palmer were on the same side of politics. Events in recent days seem to confirm Bolt’s view.


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          Rod Stuart

          Palmer has been a parasite in the Queensland political scene since the days of Joh Belke Petersen. Bolt has a memory like an elephant.


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        john karajas

        toorightmate: you are absolutely spot on! It is an insult to read and hear that real estate agent “Professor” Palmer referred to as a mining magnate.


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    Yonniestone

    I grew up with people like Ricky Muir and while he has an idea of what’s been happening behind the scenes unfortunately an “idea” isn’t going to cut it getting thrown into the cesspool of not just Australian but World politics.
    Ricky would know of a reduced free market and increasing dependence on government for existence but I feel he’ll have a very steep learning curve to discover how political power is thrown around in Australia, but by then he might be duped into giving his vote to the people who will do even more damage to what he holds dear.

    Come to think of it I might just try to contact him and give a friendly heads up of what’s what, after all if the MSM portrays Ricky as a dumb bogan then what’s the harm with me giving my 2c?, oh that’s right I’m a right wing nut job, Duh.


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    • #
      Rod Stuart

      Sure. There are guys like Ricky Muir in every mess room at every plant in the country at break time.
      Every one of them knows what should be done, but few have a few minutes to spare to read beyond the headlines, or the instead of the sports pages.
      Every one of them is a ‘good guy’.
      And everyone of them (us) would be as confused as Ricky is if we were to be suddenly thrown into the deep end of the cesspool that is Australian politics.
      Ricky Muir does not appear to me to be foolish. Unfortunately, he may be sufficiently gullible, misinformed, and easily led that the shysters that are in Australian politics.


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        Yonniestone

        Well I just emailed him so I might get a reply?
        Think of it like this, I’ve spent the past 6 plus years consciously looking for answers and learning along the way for information that is simply not published by the MSM as daily news, sometimes you’ll get a whiff of substance but you have to connect the dots yourself, so yes your correct in saying the average “good guy” isn’t a fool but how many are prepared to openly investigate for themselves?
        And therein lies the biggest problem of “good people” being conditioned to fear confronting issues that effect their daily lives, political correctness is quite often disparaged and seemingly ignored by the population but it’s cancerous effects have already taken hold in forms that go totally ignored, eg: politics are discussed but NEVER to be associated with environmentalism as doing this shows your disrespect for nature and our children’s future etc…and people say they won’t be controlled.


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        • #
          Rod Stuart

          Good on ya Yonniestone.
          I was thinking in reference to the interview with Mike Willisee.
          The ABC was blaming Willisee for attacking the guy. (Not IMHO)
          Some, like the Bolter, were commenting on Ricky’s inability to answer the simplest of questions.
          I watched the interview. Willisee was as fair and gentle as he could be.
          Ricky was like dozens of people I’ve interviewed for employment. Just like a deer in the headlights. Dumbstruck. Even when they are the salt of the Earth. It’s just that they aren’t practised and accomplished at interviewing. I’m always more skeptical of the guy that is polished and cock sure of himself. Over confidence is worse than a little bit of shyness. The steady, rational sort is generally the best person for the job, even if they aren’t the polished interviewee.
          Does he have a already?


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      • #

        More:

        It is not the people. It is the ideas that people hold sacred and refuse to examine or question. You can change the people but without changing the ideas, the cycle will continue as it has through all of recorded history and before.

        Answer this: what are the most fundamental ideas that are held implicitly the world over since the start of it all? What you see men doing and accepting as right is because of that idea. It is those ideas that are most needing examination and questioning. The ideas most chosen to be followed will determine the future. This is because the ideas inform action and actions have consequences. Choose wisely.


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    • #

      I would suggest that politics is played much the same in all countries, cultures, and times. Get into a position of power by hook or crook, take whatever you can get away with taking, retire before the bubble bursts, live off what you have taken, and the devil takes the hindmost.

      The interesting thing is that political action will tend to eliminate the value of wealth. It does it by assuring the producers cannot produce except by permission to be revoked on a whim. The economy tanks, production of value all but ceases, and there is nothing available for the remaining wealth to buy except scraps left over from the formerly productive economy.

      One hopes that man will eventually learn how to stop the madness. Man has even stopped the madness for a few glorious generations in various places and times, so it is possible. Sadly, we keep voting politicians into office and grant them the power to do what politicians have always done. We are shocked that a politician is a politician and acts like a politician. We have not paid attention to what happened in past cycles and thus the cycle repeats.


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      • #

        As my grandpappy always used to say, “They are all crooks.”


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        Robert

        True, as they say, those who refuse to learn from history are condemned to repeat it.


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        EyesWideOpen

        Unless Abbott manages to get rid of the Tax, resist a Turnbull coup, survive the MSM gauntlet that is firmly aimed at his testicles 24/7, and jump through hoop#1,2,3 and 4, and not take a bullet in the head …. and THEN, and only THEN will I have a little bit of faith in politics having any positive use what so ever.

        I only hope that at the next election Labor has another internal power struggle between two different camps of Fabians eager to stab each other in the buttocks like a Bolshevik drinking binge … because history would suggest that Left wing socialist populists always get into power during a Depression, and I’m sorry to say it but that is exactly the way we are going world wide at the present; a Depression, and nothing will stop it. The Warmers are just fueling the economic collapses as they force people to sit on their capital out of fear of investing in anything ‘bad for the climate’ that a govt or activist group will sabotage.
        Warmism is like a fever that continually fuels its own temperature until it burns up everything … the worse the economies get the more people will lean to the political left for hand outs and the worse and worse it all gets as this new leftist fueled Post-Industrial Religion engulfs the minds of the masses and they all willingly help shut down their only means of survival. It’s like mass suicide by nihilistic consent. It is quite scary to watch, but there are so many young teenagers that have now been trained to accept this bad science … their minds have been stolen by these totally leftist curriculum’s.


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    Skiphil

    I don’t know what Gore is doing there, but could you please keep him?

    We don’t need him….


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      Kevin Lohse

      Unfortunately, Australia stopped accepting criminals from the NH long ago, as they became self-sufficient in the production of same :)


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        EyesWideOpen

        As an Australian I can only agree with you … and it is sad :(

        But please, take Gore back, and also the Obama campaign coordinators that were sent over here at our last election to help our Communist Party out in their un-winnable bid for another term looting us dry and signing further debt based death warrants for the central banking cartel we inherited from New York and London.

        Please America … have a darn Revolution already. It is about time to get Paul Revere back on his horse is it not?


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      bobl

      I have two letters for you N and O…


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    Skiphil

    probably all about maintaining “the illusion of momentum” — they do not dare lose all control of the narrative and allow for stories about a crash of the CAGW bandwagon, so an endless series of make-work boondoggles can be spun off for lobbyists, bureaucrats, academics, and NGOs to pretend that all is well… and keep the funds flowing!!


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    scaper...

    The Green Army aspect of the Direct Action policy has already been legislated. There will be no ETS under this government. Other aspects of Direct Action will get through the Senate. The CEFC will be slowly gutted, as will the CCA.

    The Carbon Farming Initiative looks like a possibility and other elements of Direct Action could squeeze through so it is not dead yet. Not predictions, just been making enquiries this afternoon but the situation is still fluid and as usual…the MSM are running their own agenda.


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      Michael P

      What I find is the worst about the CEFC is they aren’t accountable to anyone,so they can invest in whatever lunatic schemes they think are best. If anyone else did this in business,they’d be thrown out,very quickly,in they even tried this. Why should they have a free run,so to speak?


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        Stupendus

        Looking at the projects already funded, most are innovative ways of saving energy and making manufacturing/food production more efficient. Plus they are only providing loans that have to be repaid (with Interest) and other financial institutions have to provide loans as well. They actually make a profit!! probably the best way to encourage innovation using government funds at no cost to the people how is that bad?


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          EyesWideOpen

          I agree with your synopsis.
          Abbott had to adopt some kind of scheme because the inertia is already behind the CAGW Religion now that the financial vampire squids have funded their MSM jackals and so called ‘activist’ NGO’s to sell this snake oil lie to the western world. He has to placate the warm-and-fuzzy types some how. He is being pragmatic.

          From what I understand as you have said, the direct action plan is set up like a voluntary loans system which does not force anything on business but allows them access to capital IF they want to go Green. Hey, maybe some companies will take up the chance to actually go Green in areas that actually are good for the Environment (ie, anything except CO2 emissions, like better bio-degradable packaging etc…)

          His scheme is definitely not like Obama’s coal killing ‘direct action’ plan to gut an entire industry.


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      bobl

      All that is good, but internal gutting leaves useless bureaucracies in place which is very expensive. We have a budget to fix too, so I’d prefer this expensive crap be terminated altogether. Then again, at one point I conjectured that it would be in our interests for the government to run a harvesting service, so that all the small farmers could share the cost of harvest infrastructure. That sounds like a green investment to me, maybe the CEFC could run that.


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        scaper...

        Don’t like qangos and that, at this point is exactly what the CEFC is!

        I wonder if they would partly fund a nuclear power plant in Northern Australia? Could be a test, worthy of consideration.


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          bobl

          Or maybe green energy ie development of a thorium reactor… would get my vote! But could they wait while I aquire some shares in a rare earth miner please?


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          EyesWideOpen

          Out of all the green energy ideas I have ever seen, the hot oil tower solar mirror fields are the best of the lot. They can store the thermal energy in hot oil insulated tanks that can drive turbines at night, so they are the only renewable’s that can actually be integrated into power grids as a core power equivalent, and they are the only ones the Greens and Labor never even spoke of. Wind turbines and Photovoltaic are rubbish and only practical in remote specialized situations.

          The Greens and Labor are an economic suicide act, and whenever they talk about renewable’s it’s simply a wish for technology they can not name that is somewhere in the future, paid for by a pot of gold at the end of an imaginary rainbow … after we shut down coal, go bankrupt and then don’t even have the capital to pay for the alternative. Wonderful post-industrial plan (cult).

          [SNIP] I still can’t believe Tim Flannery was being paid $180,000 per year for 3 days a week at the CCA, which in itself should have proven the complete gall of this fraud. Mr Super Organism [snip] … teach him a lesson.


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    newlifenarrabri

    I liked the ABC’s descriptions of “bilionaire miner Clive Palmer” and “climate change expert Al Gore” as if Gore has no money therefore we can trust him. If Palmer’s wealth is relevant then surely Gore’s is.


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    turnedoutnice

    Gore is toxic and makes anybody he touches equally toxic. Think of it as a new disease, Algorela.


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    Jaymez

    With the $10bn Clean Energy Fund, and the RET protected I’m sure Al can find a way to make some money out of the Australian taxpayer hand outs while he works on trying to get a global ETS scheme off the ground.

    Also, arguing about the detail of different policies on how to reduce CO2, takes everyone’s attention away from arguing about whether or not we need to reduce CO2 at all. Gore is happy if people aren’t talking about the fact that all his and the IPCC’s wild predictions, based on a climate sensitive to atmospheric CO2, are not coming to pass.


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      Rod Stuart

      Why does the MSM insist on calling him “vice president Gore”??
      He’s a has-been VP. Is every past VP of the USA still called vice president?


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        gnome

        In a word- yes.

        They love titles in the US, and since they don’t have official ones, and just “Mister” doesn’t sound impressive enough, they call everyone by their last-most-important job. Remember GW Bush campaigning with “Secretary Cheney”, a former Defense Secretary?

        Cheney is now Vice-president Cheney, and all their former Presidents- all carry the title. It’s only a minor pretension, so no-one complains.


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    Andy (old name Andy)

    Gotta love a bit of synchronicity. (from dictionary.com)
    gore : noun
    1. blood that is shed, especially when clotted.
    2. murder, bloodshed, violence, etc.:
    “That horror movie had too much gore.”
    palmer : noun
    1. a person who palms a card, die, or other object, as in cheating at a game or performing a magic trick.
    also,
    a pilgrim, especially of the Middle Ages, who had returned from the Holy Land bearing a palm branch as a token.


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      Matty

      Now, now. He’s not responsible for his name, nor his looks, nor even for not being President, only for what he is and he does .


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      EyesWideOpen

      @Andy
      Nice one mate :P
      At least destiny has a sense of irony. Western Civilization seems to have been destined to contract terminal economic and ideological cancers that kill the host … Al and Palmer are instruments of destiny, and their names are prophetic? figures.


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    scaper...

    Jo, this article indicates how the meeting came about.


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      Krudd Gillard of the Commondebt of Australia

      So Palmer got roped in and stooged by the Greens. That is disgusting.

      Talk about a complete loss of credibility.

      From now on, as far as we should all be concerned, Palmer is the Greens’ Barrel Boy.


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      Backslider

      I thought it would be good for Clive Palmer to hear first hand from one of the world’s leading experts and committed people on climate action

      Please note: expert “on climate action”, not “climate change”.


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    Ross

    Well I hope the new Evans/Nova Solar model firmly puts “the cat among the pidgeons” well before this 2015 talkfest and gives enough thinking politicians the strength to fight back against the Gore’s of this world.


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    John Knowles

    The Australian Economy is smaller than that of California so why is a global politician like Gore involving himself in this carbon debarcle? Jo’s comment, “We’re not being told everything.” is spot on. They made a hasty exit with lame excuses about being late for a dinner. I’d not trust either of them further than I could throw them.


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      James Bradley

      Gore looked like a deer caught in the headlights. I think Palmer got him on the hop with some fabrication about some… other fabrication, put him up there for the cameras and got him out quick before he could say anything damaging.

      It looked like it probably cost Gore more than it cost Palmer – what a cunning stunt.


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    Andrew McRae

    Some things never change.
    Move over Kremlinology, now we need Palmerstry.


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    ianl8888


    More inexplicable is what Palmer gains from standing next to Gore

    Notoriety. It’s already worked, the leftie MSM is all over them

    Attempting to predict outcomes over the next few months is a mug’s game. There are still far too many double-crosses to go. The “climate change” issue destroys all politicians who play with it, but they cannot help themselves – there’s just too much emotive power and money in it

    Sorry Jo, but you’re really not very good at all in understanding politicians

    I genuinely suspect that you’re just too nice. In fact, so gentle that I cannot bring myself to use the Pollyanna description here :)


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    the Griss

    OT: Is this above freezing yet.. really hard to tell. !


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    pat

    in the CAGW scheme of things, there are good, rich, fat miners (Clive) & bad, rich, fat miners (Gina).

    if you can understand that, you are halfway to understanding the CAGW scam!

    here’s Reuters’ James Regan with a typically fantastic CAGW narrative about Australia:

    24 June: Reuters: FEATURE-”King Coal” in Australia faces rising investment backlash
    By James Regan
    MAULES CREEK – A farmer’s habit of rising before dawn finds Cliff Wallace alone most mornings while a rag-tag army of anti-coal activists camped in tents and tee-pees on his land catch a few more hours sleep…
    “It’s a diverse group we’ve got here and in their own way they all want to save our trees from the coal companies,” says Wallace, 62, who grows wheat on land bordering the Leard State Forest, where bulldozing of endangered Box-Gum Woodland trees to develop an open pit coal mine has drawn national attention…
    Taking on Australia’s powerful coal sector was once left to environmentalists like Greenpeace and the World Wildlife Fund, but now the anti-coal movement is attracting wider support, from farmers to banks and investment funds striving to be seen as ethical investors and not contributing to global pollution…
    Australia’s biggest asset manager AMP says its ‘Responsible Investment Leader’ fund won’t invest in companies deriving more than 20 percent of earnings from thermal coal, oil from tar sands and other types of fossil fuel, the same restriction it applies towards companies that derive revenue from pornographers, weapon makers, tobacco and alcohol…
    Until now, protesters have faced an uphill battle to rally the wider Australian population against the biggest names in the coal sector, including Rio Tinto and Peabody Energy Corp.
    Known as “King Coal” in Australia, tens of thousands of workers are employed in collieries and whole towns rely on mines for their existence. More than half the world’s steel-making coal, worth A$40 billion a year, comes from Australia…
    “The concerted, well financed, and internationally coordinated campaign against fossil fuel producers carries with it great dangers and the potential to impose huge costs on the Australian economy,” according to the Minerals Council of Australia, the industry’s main lobby group.
    Banks and organisations like 350.org and Market Forces, which track investments by financial institutions and the effects on the environment, are increasingly aligning with the anti-coal divestment movement.
    Hunter Hall International, which manages $1 billion in assets, says it is ending fossil fuel investments.
    Deutsche Bank, Germany’s biggest bank, has declared it will not finance any of the multi-billion-dollar expansion work for a coal port near Australia’s World Heritage-listed Great Barrier Reef. HSBC and Royal Bank of Scotland have also stated an unwillingness to provide funding…
    The anti-coal movement has even enlisted giant U.S. ice cream maker, Ben & Jerry’s, owned by Unilever, which dispenses free cones around Australia to draw attention to plans for dredging near the Great Barrier Reef for the coal port…
    Since a divestment campaign began last year, Australian bank customers have withdrawn A$200 million ($188 million) in loans and deposits from the nation’s “Big Four” banks, National Australia Bank, Commonwealth Bank of Australia , Westpac Banking Corp and Australia and New Zealand Banking Corp, according to Market Forces data…
    “People like me who are worried about increasing global warming are pulling our money out and we don’t want to be banking with a bank that’s supporting it,” says Dr Helen Redmond.
    Redmond moved her account from CBA last year and leads a divestment movement, ‘Doctors for the Environment Australia’, to persuade doctors and medical students to transfer money out of banks financing fossil fuel projects…
    The campaign is best known for the incident last year when campaigner Jonathan Moylan sent out a hoax email to media claiming to be from ANZ announcing the bank was withdrawing an A$1.2 billion loan for the project.
    The hoax temporarily wiped A$314 million from Whitehaven’s market value when investors panicked and dumped the stock.
    Moylan was arrested and is due to stand trial on June 30.
    “The government and the coal companies see him as a criminal, but to us he’s a hero,” said Murray Drechsler, one of the protesters camped on Wallace’s land
    http://uk.reuters.com/article/2014/06/23/australia-coal-idUKL4N0OZ0MI20140623

    and here’s a trio at Bloomberg, forgetting their CAGW mission for a moment, to tell a few truths about Climate Saviour Obama’s America:

    25 June: Bloomberg: Obama Administration Widens Export Potential for U.S. Oil
    By Zain Shauk, Dan Murtaugh and Rakteem Katakey
    The U.S. Commerce Department opened the door to more U.S. oil exports as long as the crude is lightly processed, tempering the impact of a law that’s banned most overseas petroleum shipments for the past four decades.
    The department widened its definition of what’s traditionally been considered a refined product eligible for shipping to customers abroad. That means more of the oil being pumped from U.S. shale formations may be eligible for export after being run through small-scale processing units…
    “It’s a crack in the door which has otherwise been shut for 40 years,” Harry Tchilinguirian, head of commodity markets strategy at BNP Paribas SA in London, said by phone. “If approvals for condensate exports are extended to more companies, it’ll benefit U.S. producers and processors in Asia, particularly in Singapore and South Korea.” …
    “It is certainly the first step towards the lifting of the ban on U.S. crude exports and will be welcomed by the oil world,” Ehsan Ul-Haq, senior market consultant at KBC Energy Economics in Walton-on-Thames, England, said by phone today…
    Supplies on the Gulf Coast rose to more than 215 million barrels in May, the highest level on record since 1990, according to Energy Information Administration data…
    http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2014-06-25/obama-administration-widens-export-potential-for-u-s-oil.html

    Australia needs to chart its own course. end of story.


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      EyesWideOpen

      >>>Australia needs to chart its own course. end of story.
      Our 4 largest banks are majority owned by the USA’s 4 largest banks. We will never chart our own course all the whilst selling a Carbon Derivative is still a remote possibility of being a possibility.
      If the TBTF banks can convince the whole world to adopt Carbon Trading then the Banks will suck every last drop out of every country in the world, especially the developing countries (as if they haven’t done enough damage to many of them.)
      Al Gore is a vampire plain and simple.
      Australia may not look like a big enough country for Mr Gore to concern himself with, but we are a Big Fish in the geopolitical sense of occupying our own quarter of the Earth with the minerals and resources to boot. We also have a seat on the Security Council and a per capita proportionally large share of voting rights at the IMF. If Australia can be captured in this CO2 vampire squid banking monstrosity then it helps TPTB to buy our political and economic clout with ease in a vastly increased globalized world. London and New York banking snakes have grown out of their old skin and need Commonwealth countries to start pulling their weight and paying their pound of flesh to the completely fiat system of financial frauds that keep the ‘west’ with their heads above water.


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    pat

    worth remembering:

    Dec 2012: Brisbane Times: Bridie Jabour: Clive Palmer given key role at G20 advisory group
    Billionaire Clive Palmer has been appointed to a key position at a new organisation that will advise the Brisbane G20 Summit and counts former US presidents Bill Clinton and Jimmy Carter among its members.
    The mining magnate is the joint secretary-general of the World Leadership Alliance, which has been formed in America as a joint effort between Club de Madrid and the World Economic Council.
    The announcement was made in Little Rock, Arkansas, by former Dutch prime minister Wim Kok, who is also the president of Club de Madrid, which includes Mr Clinton and Mr Carter as members, along with Burmese opposition leader Aung San Suu Kyi.
    Mr Palmer said the alliance would be a key adviser to the next G20 Summit.
    ***Arkansas Online reported that one of several goals of the new partnership was to boost sustainable technology use globally.
    http://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/queensland/clive-palmer-given-key-role-at-g20-advisory-group-20121218-2bkgl.html

    July 20143: Australian: Hedley Thomas: How Clive Palmer engineered entry to the ranks of world leaders
    An investigation by The Australian uncovered one reason why Mr Palmer may have been chosen in annual financial accounts, lodged in Spain two months ago by the cash-strapped Club de Madrid, the organisation that gave unexpected birth to the World Leadership Alliance and the World Economic Council.
    Mr Palmer, a resources tycoon, was in pole position to land the lofty appointments because he had, confidentially, been the largest donor of funds to Club de Madrid, a forum for former heads of state and government, including former Dutch prime minister Wim Kok, the club’s current president; former New Zealand prime minister Jenny Shipley, the club’s vice-president; former US presidents Bill Clinton and Jimmy Carter; former Canadian prime minister Jean Chretien; and former UN secretary-general Kofi Annan.
    Club de Madrid and its affiliates are not listed as advisers to the G20. Instead, the body says it works closely with “key international institutions” such as the International Monetary Fund, the World Bank, the OECD, the World Trade Organisation (WTO), ASEAN and the UN…
    The financial accounts of Club de Madrid reveal that, last year, Mr Palmer opened his wallet with a donation of E500,000. It was channelled from Queensland Nickel, which made a loss of $58 million in the financial year to June 30, 2012.
    Another donation, E229,200, flowed from his loss-making Mineralogy, which is embroiled in litigation in a bid to be paid disputed royalty payments by Chinese company CITIC Pacific for an iron ore development in the Pilbara in Western Australia.
    These donations by Mr Palmer of more than $1m comprised about 40 per cent of the total that Club de Madrid received from the private sector for the year.
    Mr Palmer’s generous contributions even dwarfed those by major public-sector donors including NATO (E20,000) and AusAid (E95,000). Thanks to his donations, Club de Madrid’s 2012 deficit was whittled back to E214,000 after its 2011 surplus of E619,000…
    http://www.theaustralian.com.au/national-affairs/how-palmer-engineered-entry-to-the-ranks-of-world-leaders/story-fn59niix-1226685254989?nk=82df96c142acff91a0b153a21fa52751


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      EyesWideOpen

      Thank you for those links. I will spread it wide.
      Are there any politicians left in the West that are not complete economic assassins out for personal gain out for a seat at a globalist round table or two?
      Palmer needs to be held accountable by those who voted for him.


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    Peter Kemmis

    Don Henry, Clive Palmer, Al Gore . . . .

    Mirror, mirror, on the wall !

    Who is smartest of them all?


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    pat

    also worth noting:

    24 June: Reuters: Markus Wacket: Germany ups new green energy surcharge on industry to meet EU rules
    Germany on Tuesday offered to change a planned reform of its renewable energy policy, trying to end a standoff with the European Commission over green power subsidies and to meet a deadline needed to secure rebates for German industry.
    In an amended draft law seen by Reuters, the government proposed that German industrial companies producing their own electricity in new renewable energy or combined heat-power plants would pay a higher surcharge than previously planned.
    Germany presented the changes after the Commission raised new sticking points on Monday, undoing what had appeared to be an agreed deal.
    But Berlin indicated it would resist EU demands to exempt imported electricity from an energy surcharge…
    German industry cannot apply for billions of euros of exemptions from the green energy surcharge if Berlin misses the deadline.
    So far energy-intensive industries have been exempt from the surcharge, or have enjoyed large discounts, something they say they need to remain competitive…
    “It would be a massive own goal in terms of industrial policy if politicians were to put a surcharge on own power production used by many sectors for decades,” German industry lobby BDI chief Markus Kerber said in a statement.
    “That’s the opposite of protecting confidence. German industry needs absolute clarity and long-term security to plan.”…
    Subsidized renewable energy, led by wind and solar power, have sparked a political debate in Germany over high prices for consumers, who pay mandatory charges for green energy.
    http://uk.reuters.com/article/2014/06/24/us-germany-energy-eu-idUKKBN0EZ1K520140624


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    pat

    24 June: Washington Examiner: Ron Arnold: Stop the Big Green mind-killer
    (RON ARNOLD, a Washington Examiner columnist, is executive vice president of the Center for the Defense of Free Enterprise.)
    Hotshot environmentalists including billionaire Tom Steyer, the Natural Resources Defense Council, Al Gore, and the Sierra Club claim that America can easily switch from fossil fuels to renewables, but don’t say how. Bill McKibben, anti-carbon campaigner, says, “making the transition to 100-percent renewable energy is a political decision and an ethical imperative – the technical options do exist.”
    No they don’t…
    The Paris-based International Energy Agency says so. The IEA is no panic peddler like McKibben’s mob, with their glib pie-in-the-sky assertions and no responsibility for what they say…
    There are no technical options, only ways to stop economic growth, which is the specialty of hedge fund billionaire Tom Steyer (estimated net worth $1.6 billion), Big Green’s latest new action leader.
    Steyer created Risky Business, an initiative to destroy the fossil fuel industry, and recruited co-chairs Michael Bloomberg, former New York City mayor ($32.8 billion), and Hank Paulson, former U.S. Treasury Secretary ($700 million), for his power elite.
    The initiative’s culmination was the Risky Business report released Tuesday, a mind-killer designed to scare money away from fossil fuel investments with estimated ranges of the potential costs of climate change for property, insurance, energy demand and agricultural production.
    How will we meet our energy needs of today and tomorrow? The Steyer/Bloomberg/Paulson report does not offer solutions. Like all climate change gospel, the report is just an exercise in fortune-telling with a lot of footnotes. The fearful need only recall that a billionaire’s crystal ball is no better than yours…
    Obama now talks like he’s had too much McKibben-Steyer Kool-Aid, but if you read the EPA announcement of the rule by his own employee, agency head Gina McCarthy, you will find a stunning moment of clarity in the schizophrenia. In the midst of wildly exaggerated benefits and strategically contrived evils, there appears: “We know that coal and natural gas play a significant role in a diverse national energy mix.”
    Alas, in the next sentence the light fades back into bureaucratic night.
    Things are slowly changing. Obama’s EPA rule will be in court for years, encouraged by the Supreme Court’s Monday decision that partially struck down EPA overreach…
    New voices are also rising. Kathleen Hartnett White, former Texas environmental regulator, has written a guide for living minds, “Fossil fuels: the moral case.” Access to oil, gas and coal, White says, are inextricably linked with prosperity and human well-being, but policies to replace those fossil fuels with inferior and unreliable energy sources could undermine all civilization.
    Now a senior fellow of the Texas Public Policy Foundation, White wrote, “Would voters choose an energy regression to less productive, efficient, comfortable, and healthy living standards? Multiple polls say no way! For the wealthy elites who make policy decisions – ‘the ruling class,’ it appears to be another story.”
    Time to end that other story. It’s beginning to stumble over its own faked, politicized climate science and its elites are teetering on the abyss of their own arrogance. Time to stop the Big Green mind-killer.
    http://washingtonexaminer.com/stop-the-big-green-mind-killer/article/2550130


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      OriginalSteve

      Well without getting to bogged down in how the mechanisms of the NWO crowd work, its simply this – the mob who want to basically rule the planet are immensely powerful and run most stuff from behind the scenes.

      They want to pump up the “old order” then collapse it, then create “order from chaos” by creating a new order ( or NWO ). To do this , each country is assigned roles and the “script” is handed out and now its being played out. This is why so many thngs dont make sense unless you view it through this lens.

      The trojan horse of choice has been enviromentalism – to basically undermine and collapse the economies of the world, to put so much pressure & weight on them ready to collapse, then throw in a nuclear confrontation on the NK peninsula and she’ll all go down like ton of bricks….

      At this point, Agenda 21 is kicked into full cry – people are herded into mega cities ( ghettos ) , the countryside is “cleansed” of humans and a pagan oasis of Gaia worship is likley established.

      If you know where to look, you can see it all coming together.


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        Manfred

        Starting to sound like a conspiracy theorist OS? Do you really credit the few with the ability to orchestrate the lead in to Agenda 21 implementation? Possibly, just possibly. Could you really box the mushroom munching sheeple into mega-cities (ghettos)? Not a chance.

        No. I think the current circumstances, an absence of global warming is rapidly becoming the elephant in the room. The mushroom munchers are gradually waking up and smelling the roses for the first time in years. The Green Hegemony is in its death throes and AlGourdo is tap dancing in desperation.


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          bobl

          Agreed, yes, but, it’s pretty clear that UN bureaucrats are using it for a way to tax by treaty, so they can continue to be relevant, but on the whole global warming is a green ballon that accidentally got loose, it’s the first green issue that accidentally has gained enough traction to propel greenpiss and WTF into political power and they are not giving up that power without a fight.

          Global warming is an accident, it’s a thought bubble that went viral. What you see now is the result of the left, greenpiss and other enviro-comrades trying to leverage that accident for power and profit. Yes Agenda 21 is a recipe for communist world rule that Australia should never have signed onto, but frankly it really has no mechanism to come to pass in the west. Too much land is already in private hands, and there are constitutional problems with taking it away. There will always be people like myself that will never live in a highrise ghetto.

          Mind you though, the gradual erosion of freedom that Agenda 21 licenses needs to be resisted at every turn, green influence does need to be overturned because it stops mankind from being humane, it stop mankind from growing and achieving it’s best.

          Stupid green zoning, and ridiculously small fire clearance restrictions that kill people and animals should be the first to go.


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          OriginalSteve

          It is what it is – its the frog in the pot of water approach thats got everything to where it is now.

          Its kind of like using the hurricane in the junk yard analogy to produce a car to say its all occurred randomly. There is a definate intelligent mind behind it all.

          I made a comment before that Palmer could be bought 100 times over by the people who bankroll the green foot soldiers. This is true – it seems to be the same peopel who can buy and sell whole govts ( including teh US ) to do their bidding. Its a stretching it a bit to say the leader of the free world is naive beyond words, when he has some of the best scientists in the world who would know whats what and hes happy to pee billions against the wall for no outcome, except the USA descent into economically suicidal socialism.

          Nah…doesnt wash….common sense says otehrwise.


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            EyesWideOpen

            [SNIP OT]

            If the President of the USA can be a complete fraud right down to his very identity, not to mention his known allegiances in Chicago with Communists and down right convicted terrorists, then I believe you are correct OriginalSteve … there IS an intelligent mind somewhere, but I do believe they have overestimated their own ability to sell a scientific fraud like AGW to the Western world. I sense they are in a panic that the key piece of legislation required to bring in Agenda 21 is DOA.
            When I look at video of Obama and Abbott talking however, I can tell that Obama has a hatred for Abbott, and I do sense that Abbott clearly wants to get rid of the Carbon fraud and cut Australia free.

            Abbott’s Question Time answer the other day was very telling. He specifically mentioned that Copenhagen was a turning point, and that people need to get over the fact that multilateral action on AGW is dead! He meant it too … but can he survive an internal coup from Turnbull? Palmer and Turnbull had a secret meeting whilst Abbott was overseas remember. They’re all cooking up an Ides of March, I can feel it. Abbott will get Krudded … just watch. And Mr Goldman Sachs himself, Turnbull the Turncoat will come to power.


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    pat

    10 June: National Journal: Inside a Green Billionaire’s Brain Trust
    By Clare Foran and Ben Geman
    Billionaire environmental activist Tom Steyer wants to put climate change front and center in American politics and he has assembled an all-star team of Democratic operatives in his bid to do it.
    The list of players working with Steyer’s NextGen Climate group is full of high-powered veterans who’ve held important positions in some of the Left’s biggest victories of the past two decades—including operatives in President Obama’s 2008 election win and advisers in the Obama and Clinton administration…
    The team will advise Steyer as NextGen pours a planned $100 million—half of which will come out of Steyer’s own pocket—into the 2014 elections, money aimed at electing candidates who will push action to address global warming. NextGen recently announced its involvement in four battleground Senate races, ranging from Colorado to Iowa, as well as three governor’s contests…
    Chris Lehane is the chief strategist for NextGen Climate.
    Lehane is a seasoned Democratic operative known translating opposition research into biting communications campaigns aimed at undercutting political adversaries.
    He worked as the press secretary for former vice president Al Gore during his presidential campaign in 2000. Lehane also served out a brief stint as the communications director for John Kerry during his unsuccessful run for the White House.
    Lehane cut his teeth on political communications strategy in the Clinton White House…
    Nick Baldick is a political adviser to NextGen Climate.
    Baldick served as campaign manager for former Sen. John Edwards’s White House bid during the 2004 cycle. He was state director of Al Gore’s victorious 2000 New Hampshire primary campaign and later was a senior adviser during the Florida recount, according to the website of Hilltop Public Solutions, the public-affairs and political-consulting firm he founded…
    Ben Wessel is a political associate at NextGen Climate.
    Wessel has also worked as a policy campaign manager at 350.org, a group at the forefront of the anti-Keystone campaign…
    http://www.nationaljournal.com/energy/inside-a-green-billionaire-s-brain-trust-20140610


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    pat

    i’m off to watch the tennis, but here’s some light reading!

    June 2014: World Bank: Climate-smart development : adding up the benefits of actions that help build prosperity, end poverty and combat climate change (Vol. 1 of 2) : Main report (English)
    Abstract
    This report describes efforts by the ClimateWorks Foundation and the World Bank to quantify the multiple economic, social, and environmental benefits associated with policies and projects to reduce emissions in select sectors and regions. The report has… See More +This report describes efforts by the ClimateWorks Foundation and the World Bank to quantify the multiple economic, social, and environmental benefits associated with policies and projects to reduce emissions in select sectors and regions…
    This report uses several case studies to demonstrate how to apply the analytical framework. Three simulated case studies analyzed the effects of key sector policies to determine the benefits realized in the United States, China, the European Union, India, Mexico, and Brazil. The sector policies include regulations, taxes, and incentives to stimulate a shift to clean transport, improved industrial energy efficiency, and more energy efficient buildings and appliances…
    LINK TO 88 PAGE REPORT
    http://documents.worldbank.org/curated/en/2014/06/19703432/


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    Andrew McRae

    If Clive is smart enough to still be the one pulling the strings, he’s the epitome of appearances being deceiving. I’d guess he’s just a puppet for hire. If I’m wrong, he’ll do a backflip on the Goreacle after he’s cashed in on the power arbitrage of pretending to turn Green. He knows he’s a one-term MP so he’s making the most moolah for #1 while the gettin’s good.

    Gore asked to meet and Palmer accepted.

    The meeting culminated in a joint press conference on Wednesday, where Mr Palmer declared Mr Gore had convinced him to change his stance on climate change policy. [...]
    Mr Henry says Mr Gore asked him for the names of important figures to meet during his trip to Australia. “He asked for my advice on who may be important to meet with in Australia and I suggested Clive Palmer to him,” he told The World Today.

    Clive is quick to deny that he paid any money to Gore to attend the meeting announcement. Well duh. One of these two is a rich washed-up has-been and the other holds the balance of power in the Senate. Who is more likely to pay who?

    Maybe this is the beginning of a new celebrity couple. Forget TomKat and Brangelina, now the paparazzi are chasing Alclive. Gore is the one wearing the pants.


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      kim

      Very funny, AMcR; I was tempted to tell you that Gore know longer presides in the Senate, and then I realized I was in the wrong country.
      ================


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      Raven

      . . . He [Clive] knows he’s a one-term MP so he’s making the most moolah for #1 while the gettin’s good.

      Hey Andrew,

      That may very well be true.
      Clive has copped a bit of a bashing around here in the last couple of days and I’ve contributed to that myself.

      He’s also pretty much the loose cannon and there’s no telling if he might change his mind tomorrow on any particular position. Basically, Clive is motivated by self interest and ego and unrestrained by any fixed political or idealogical stance.
      That makes him a difficult customer to deal with because he can be subject to whim and he’s opportunistic by nature.

      But here’s the thing. One can cut a deal with Clive precisely because his motivations permit flexibility.
      Contrast that with The Greens. No one would be able to cut a deal with Christine Milne because she’s constrained by The Greens cult mentality.
      Any wavering from The Greens path of righteousness would constitute an existential threat to her party.

      So, strategically, we’re better off if the PUP retain their senators into the future because every PUP senator installed makes it more difficult for The Greens to gain the balance of power.
      It’s just a pragmatic choice, I reckon. The PUP might be erratic, but The Greens are dangerous.

      So I say . . . All hail The Clive . . . even if it is slightly duplicitous. ;-)


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        bobl

        I agree, the one thing we can rely on is that Clive will do what’s in Clive’s interest, personally I think Clive is trying to transition from business to a political entity. I expect he will offload some of his poorer holdings while angling for a diplomatic role of some sort. Parliament is a means to an end, hence the association with hasbeen vice president Gore, just a path to the UN.

        Anyway, this makes Palmer very vulnerable to public pressure, our pressure. If Palmer believes killing the RET and CEFC would help his plan then he’ll dump them, if Gore has convinced him it’s in Palmers advantage to keep them to leverage them for the UN future then that’s what he’ll do.

        I personally think Palmers Plan requires him to get to pension elligibility (2 terms) which suggests to me Palmer needs to keep his seat, a DD or general election on the wrong side of the climate debate would ditch him, he knows he needs to be on the right side of this, but isn’t clear on the winning side yet – solution, keep a foot in both camps. We need to show Palmer what the right side of that debate is despite the UNs clear leveraging of climate for it’s tax by treaty agenda.


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    pat

    just remembered i forgot to post this final one!

    25 June: BBC: US GDP shrinks 2.9% in first quarter
    The economy shrank at an annualised rate of 2.9% in the first three months of the year, the third estimate from the US Commerce Department showed…
    The unusually cold weather in the first quarter of the year has been blamed for the poor performance of the economy…
    http://www.bbc.com/news/business-28012760


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    Matty - Perth

    My Gore theory is he is out to suppress any scheme that is potentially outside of his big vision. There in no money in direct action either. He knew the tax was on the block so he put a torpedo into Abbott’s plan. How do you shape the world if everyone does their own thing?


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    [...] Dr Jensen’s speech provides some historical context, while Jo Nova explains what the conditions Palmer has placed on repeal of the carbon tax will mean longer term for [...]


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    pat

    between sets at the tennis, & going offline, but just found this. take a bow, jo, anthony, big mac, bish et al. i firmly believe without your efforts, we would not have achieve this success, which is not for Liberals only, Fairfax, as much as you would like to think it is. still some spin by mark & judith, but who cares?

    26 June: SMH: Mark Kenny/Judith Ireland: Liberals celebrate as carbon tax repeal passes lower house
    Just before the House adjourned on Thursday, there were jubilant scenes on the floor of the House of Representatives as the Coalition passed the carbon tax repeal bills for the second time.
    The final vote went through on the voices after which Environment Minister Greg Hunt was embraced and high-fived by colleagues…
    He had earlier successfully moved an amendment to split the Clean Energy Finance Corporation abolition – which will not pass the Senate – from the package of bills.
    Labor unsuccessfully moved an amendment to repeal the carbon tax and move straight to an emissions trading scheme.
    Prime Minister Tony Abbott was not present to see the repeal go through as he was attending a function out of Canberra…
    The government’s carbon tax repeal bill will be voted on by the newly configured Senate as early as July 7, but more likely a week later on the 15th – due to Senate procedural rules – after Tony Abbott secured the final crossbench support from Clive Palmer’s Palmer United Party.
    It will pass with the support of the Coalition, and most of the cross-bench independents and the PUP bloc which includes the Australian Motoring Enthusiasts Party’s senator-elect, Ricky Muir…
    The historic agreement came just 14 hours after Mr Palmer, flanked by one of the world’s most prominent climate advocates, former US vice-president Al Gore, announced his party bloc would vote to scrap the carbon price.
    However, in a setback to the government’s overall plan, Mr Palmer also committed to retaining key pillars of the Labor-Greens climate change architecture in the form of the Climate Change Authority, the Clean Energy Finance Corporation, and the Renewable Energy Target.
    The RET is the subject of an review which is due to report next month. There are concerns that mandating a 20 per cent quota for energy from renewable sources, had made electricity more costly and was harming the economy.
    Many Liberals want the RET dumped but that option looks to be off the table given Mr Palmer’s support. Mr Palmer also skewered the government’s ”Direct Action” plan declaring it was a waste of money and would therefore not receive PUP support.
    That has left the friendless scheme in a legal limbo along with more than $1.1 billion in funds already appropriated. It means any future program run under that name may need to be scaled back and done through regulation rather than legislation…
    http://www.smh.com.au/federal-politics/political-news/liberals-celebrate-as-carbon-tax-repeal-passes-lower-house-20140626-3awd4.html


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    I see that they’re now talking Cap and Trade, huh, and they think it differs from an ETS, when in reality it’s the same thing.

    Rather than have me go over it again, how about responses here indicating what you believe Cap and Trade to be.

    Hint. It’s got nothing to do with lowering CO2 emissions. It’s just about the money.

    Go for your lives. I’d really like to see what people believe it to be.

    Tony.


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      Tony,
      Many people did very, very well out of Y2K. I can still recall talking to brick walls about the stupidity of that hoax being written into all purchase, service and construction contracts for about 2 years. Those same legal eagles now probably look after asylum seekers??
      The Emissions Trading gang will do the Y2K shysters on a ten break – if the stupidity of EU expands to other parts of the world.

      Another topic: the Poms are tonight claiming 20% of energy for the first calendar quarter came from renewables. Isn’t it lucky that those wind farms in the North Sea and the Irish Sea did not cost anything!!!!!!!!!!


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      PaulM

      Tony it is the Merchant Bankers wet dream. It is the ultimate evolution of a futures trading scheme because it has a revenue potential well in excess of any futures commodity in existence and lacks that oh so messy and inconvenient requirement of a physical product as an endpoint to realise a return on your investment. It is a trading scheme based on an intangible and unmeasurable outcome. In short it is the money changers in the temple grounds peddling guilt and selling indulgences and dispensation.


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        PaulM,

        how right you are when you say its the bankers/traders dream.

        The Government issues credits to each emitting entity at the start of the year in line with their government set emissions targets for that specific entity, and the emitting entity has to hand back the same amount at the end of that year. In between, traders deal in those credits as the emitting entities buy and sell them if they wish, generating fees for the traders, and speculation as well, so here you can already see how this market can be manipulated, with prices low at distribution time, and then skyrocketing at hand back time, when everyone is looking to have their exact number of credits to hand back, and as part of that imagine the new bureaucracy required to accurately measure the emissions.

        Emitting entities like power plants are then subject to electricity generation in accordance with their emissions level, set by Government, and then lowered at the start of each year. If that power plant goes beyond their emissions, they must purchase extra credits to cover those extra emissions, and then then, on top of that, pay a fine at a cost of 1.5 times the closing price of those excess credits at hand back time. Then, on top of that again, the extra emissions from that year are then subtracted from their already lowered target for the following year. No bonuses for going under your target, just the cost of the extra credits, and this hamstrings you for the following year as you now have a lower emissions level, so the cut is applied to that lower figure

        Then, as per the instructions from the UNFCCC, the requirement of Developed Countries is to set up an ETS, and from that, to forward an amount to the UN to pay all costs for those Countries that the UN still classifies as Developing.

        The object of any ETS is not to lower emissions, but to act as a vast money churn with all the players in between taking their cuts from that, and all of it paid for, not by emitting entities, but by every consumer of electricity, because all emitting entities just pass all their costs down to the consumers.

        Just a huge new tax with selected privileged people taking their cuts along the way.

        It doesn’t serve to lower emissions, because no matter what, electrical power MUST be supplied in accordance with actual Demand, and not some emissions level target. Imagine a power generating entity saying that they cannot supply power when it is needed for fear of exceeding their emissions limit, and from that imagine the brain explosion in the Government Minister, or Premier when told that.

        If they really wanted to lower emissions, they’d just close the plants, but hey, no one would make any money then, now would they?

        Tony.


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          PaulM

          Tony, for me one of the most telling omissions from any ETS or Cap & Trade scheme is that they all don’t appear to account for efficiency. The generation, transmission and therefore alleged environmental impact pew MW of generation varies so much. It is effected by the age of generation and transmission equipment. The type of generation and transmission equipment. The level and scheduling of maintenance of generation and transmission equipment. The type, quality and mix of fuel used in generation along with other physical factors like location, ambient temperature, height above sea level, all of which have direct influence on the efficiency of the generator and therefore it’s emissions per MW. And yet the price is predicated on targets reached or not reached from a baseline of emissions per MW that doesnt differentiate for the previously mentioned variables.

          When you talk about the bureaucracy needed to manage and monitor ETS/cap & trade schemes, you are spot on, now imagine that this bureaucracy is as efficient, open, accurate and accountable as the average tax department and try to envisage the effect a similar level of contested assessments for ETS/cap & trade liabilities as there are for taxation.


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    The GWPF take on things.
    “This means we could end up with a sceptics’ paradise: no carbon tax, no prospect of emissions trading and not even Abbott’s $2.5 billion direct action schemes. That is a huge win.

    Thanks, Clive.”
    http://www.thegwpf.org/how-a-coal-baron-fooled-al-gore-and-the-greens/


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      gh

      ..and then they release the RET review and Clive changes his mind about that. Here’s hoping.


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      gbees

      when the RET, feed in tariffs, direct action, climate change government departments and the clean energy fund are all gone I’ll start to believe that the madness has ended. Until then I’m suspicious of any and every thing.


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    CC Squid

    Jo and David, I have moved your site to the top of my reading list and I will be hitting your tip jar. Your slow revelation of the Evan’s Solar Model and reports like this give me great hope in the future! Best Regards


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    [...] Palmer has said he will vote with the government on the measure provided it retains various green policies including the $10 billion Clean Energy Finance Corporation, the Renewable Energy Target (RET) and [...]


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    Raven

    Jo / Mods,

    The “Nick Xenophon is leaning on” link in the OP seems to be dead.
    It takes me to:

    “Sorry, but you are looking for something that isn’t here.”


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    Sonny

    What is this about?

    This is about membership of the ruling class of the future NWO, nothing more, nothing less.
    Palmer is positioning himself to be part of the ruling class, commenters on this forum against climate change are positioning themselves as “persons of interest” at best or “enemy combatants” at worst.

    I can’t believe you guys haven’t figured out what this game is yet?!


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      James Bradley

      Oh, so it’s okay when the pockets of union comrades are lined and businesses go broke?


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      • #
        Kevin Lohse

        Of course it is. It’s the Marxist Labour Theory of Value, first mentioned in the 15th Century or thereabouts. Works brilliantly after the Black Death or a blood-bath like the Western Front. Falls to pieces when there is a surplus of labour, which is any time since about the mid-17th Century in England following Enclosure. Marx re-invented the Labour Theory of Value, which is why Lefties are in love with it even though it’s lunatic nonsense.


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          Yonniestone

          It’s almost like getting fired from a company that you had zero idea it existed let alone being an employee.

          Over the last century start with 100million “unwanted labor” fired by the left, actions justified so they could “move forward” and make the world a better place.

          And people wonder why I abhor the left.


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    TdeF

    The introduction of the Carbon Tax bill three times has been planned for nine months but the media act as if it is sudden.

    Nothing was more certain than that the new PUP senators would roll over to preserve their jobs. After all no one ever voted for a carbon tax on either side and Labor promised to ‘terminate’ what they promised we would not have. The public grandstanding with Al Gore is typical Palmer meaningless nonsense. Despite the claim by the Sydney Morning Herald, the repeal is not conditional. Amazingly Palmer has even let Abbott off his ‘direct action’ plan, a saving of $2.8Billion. None of this requires any action from Palmer at all but he is glowing in his achievement, perversely with the tacit public support of Al Gore. Amazing.

    What is puzzling is that the carbon tax albatross is going to be hung around the neck of Shorten without a whimper. Carbon Tax Bill. At no time was a carbon tax a Labor policy, but they are so dependent on Green preferences that the once great Labor party has spent nearly seven years defending a carbon tax they promised absolutely would never happen. ‘The science’ is in tatters. Al Gore is a Nobel Peace prize billionaire opportunist and Clive Palmer is grandstanding as a Green saviour when in fact he is their worst nightmare. While Abbott is fulfilling every election promise, Labor is looking completely lost and irrelevant, a sock puppet for the Greens. No wonder the latest fantasy political maverick from Queensland is enjoying himself on the stage. Meanwhile Shorten is being repeatedly named in a Royal Commission and the boats have stopped completely for six months.

    The Climate Commission will be crippled. If the RET and the Climate Commission are to be removed, the bill will be presented to parliament three times, after the carbon tax is repealed. Abbott is roasting his opponents slowly over a charcoal grill.


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    [...] Palmer has said he will vote with the government on the measure provided it retains various green policies including the $10 billion Clean Energy Finance Corporation, the Renewable Energy Target (RET) and [...]


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    Eugene WR Gallun

    Palmer did an interesting thing. Palmer,as a coal baron, was the poster child of
    big business — proof Abbott’s government was run by big business for the benefit
    of big business.

    But now, in any poster of him, Palmer will have Al Gore standing beside him –
    supporting him. Huh?

    Palmer’s support of Abbott is no longer toxic. Al Gore has blessed Palmer as “green”.

    This is a triple whammy! Politically it helps both Abbott and Palmer and makes Al Gore
    look like a fool.

    Eugene WR Gallun


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      Ross

      Eugene
      Given toorightmate’s review of Palmer’s mining business maybe Palmer thinks he can learn some money making schemes from Gore, as Roy Hogue points out in his reply to you. This might help Palmer out of a hole !!


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    Roy Hogue

    Gore is a fool.

    I disagree with that assessment. He’s a cold, calculating ripoff artist, intent on continuing to line his pockets with our money and regain his fame as the oracle of global warming.

    That’s all he’s ever been and apparently all he’ll ever be. To believe him a fool I’d need to believe he believes the nonsense he hands out. And I did think that at first. But his actions speak a different language, that of money and fame. And oh yes, power too.

    Gore is protecting his vested interest any way he can.


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    redress

    While speculating on the reasons for the Al Gore/Clive Palmer alliance is fun, there is a far greater scenario developing which may put Tony Abbott in a very strong position.

    1] Clive Palmer is charged with misappropriation of CITIC funds and resigns from parliament.

    http://www.theaustralian.com.au/opinion/a-hint-for-dupes-follow-the-money/story-e6frg6zo-1226968229528?nk=4665ad2e44b113c996c08d550f205650#

    2] Bill Shorten is charged either with the offenses currently under investigation By VICPOL or with an offense revealed by the current Royal Commission into Union Corruption, and is forced from the leadership.

    http://www.michaelsmithnews.com/2014/06/val-gostencnik-met-with-lawyers-for-williamsons-hsu-to-help-bill-shorten-get-an-administrator-into-t.html

    What a great time to call a Double Dissolution and gain control of both houses……


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      DT

      He has also been referred to the Crime and Misconduct Commission by the Queensland Government relating to a letter he wrote offering to withdraw from litigation against the government in return for approval for his coal venture railway line.


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    Safetyguy66

    It would appear from Palmer’s latest comments that this was little more than an opportunity for him to feature prominently in a debate. He was quite clear in the interview I saw last night, that repealing the carbon tax was unconditional and that all the other “asks” like keeping the CEFC etc were simply suggestions.

    To a certain extent, Im with Jo. I cant believe two people like Palmer and Gore would bother to get out of bed for less than the sniff of six figures. So there is a very high likelihood Gore has shown Palmer the formulae for riches via carbon scamming and now Clive sees an opportunity. But for Clive, at the very least this gets him on the front pages for a week or two, he cant lose really by getting tied up in it. No one either for or against his views believes a word he’s saying, so its basically a zero sum votes game for a stack of free publicity.

    I have previously called him mad, but I never said he was stupid, I think he leaves that to his constituents. The simple fact is if more people would have voted Libs, we would have been minus all carbon bureaucracies 6 months ago, voting for minor parties is just a nonsense wrapped up in a stupid.


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    handjive

    Never assume.
    It only makes an ass out of ‘u’ and me.

    You don’t get to be rich like Palmer by being a fool.

    So who are Palmers enemies?
    What is his motivation?

    The Greens & environmentalists would be high on the list of enemies of any miner.
    Palmer’s motivation to enter politics was a fall-out with the Queensland LNP. His hate for Qld Premier Newman is legendary.

    This hate was also directed to the national LNP.
    And his initial talk/foray into politics was for Wayne Swan’s (Labor) seat of Lillee over the mining tax.

    With Palmer’s attack on Peta Credlin, he destroyed the left’s argument of mysogyny in one foul swoop.
    The silence of the frightbats was/is deafening.

    All of a sudden, for the Greens, we have hero good coal miners, like Palmer, and bad coal miners, like Gina Rinehart.
    Palmer has exposed the progressives from all sides for the hypocrites they are.

    In comments from this thread @theconversation, Palmer, the coal miner, is the best thing since sliced bread. Go figure.

    Over at the Financial Review, left-leaning Laura Tingle sums up the dilemma:

    “Clive Palmer’s stunning wedging of not just Tony Abbott but Labor and the Greens means climate change remains on the table as an issue for the next election.

    Palmer’s ploy would force him to explicitly reject doing anything serious about climate change and explain why he was not prepared to compromise, even when PUP was allowing him to deliver his mandate.

    For Labor and the Greens, it will be very difficult for them to oppose the PUP amendments, lest they appear to be utter hypocrites on climate change.”
    . . .
    Seems all is going to plan in Palmerland.


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    thingadonta

    Hitler and Stalin made a pact as well.


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    Rod Stuart

    This what Gail Combs has to say on Tallbloke’s Talkshop:

    This might help understand Al Gore.

    Al Gore Walks Away From Green Energy

    Since 2007, the former Vice President in Bill Clinton’s administration has been preaching the benefits of putting your money where his mouth is: Alternative energy.

    But if Al Gore has any message for investors today, it might very well be this: “Stay the hell away from alternative energy!”

    Not that he would say so. At least out loud….

    Reading through the promotional materials he puts out through his company, Generation Investment, it is hard to tell whether his “Client Update” is selling investments in his Climate Solutions Fund or memberships in the Sierra Club….

    But even Gore does not seem to be listening anymore.

    Gore’s company files a quarterly report with the SEC that tells a different story about the 30 stocks in its portfolio. His company’s public investments in wind, solar, biomass and other alternative energy to combat climate change are practically non-existent.

    But his portfolio is top-heavy in high-tech, medical instruments…

    He is also big in China, with stakes in a big Chinese travel agency, CTrip, and China’s largest medical equipment manufacturer, Mindray Medical.

    And if you want a piece of the natural gas pipeline game — heavily dependent on the environmentally suspect fracking — you can find that in Gore’s portfolio as well……

    When Warren Buffet dumps his wind and solar farms in the USA, the CAGW scam will be officially dead. Right now Buffet is bragging he is GOING TO double his investment.

    (They are keeping the scam going so they can grab the money and run at this point.)

    Bye the Bye if any of you are down Australia way could you please stuff Al Gore in a snow bank preferably in an avalanche zone?


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    Rod Stuart

    Just a brief note of condolence.
    I believe our resident troll Shehan has lost the plot completely.
    He seems to be talking to himself back on a week old thread.
    Just humour him. He might be there talking to himself for a while yet.


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    pat

    u have to have a sense of humour.

    CLIVE Palmer’s alliance with incoming Australian Motoring Enthusiast Party senator Ricky Muir may unravel on the very first vote of the new Senate after July 1.
    The Australian understands that Mr Muir plans to vote against the carbon tax repeal bills unless the Abbott government supports the automotive transformation scheme…
    http://www.theaustralian.com.au/national-affairs/policy/ricky-muir-link-to-pup-strains-on-repeal-bill/story-e6frg6xf-1226968255774

    what could be more hilarious than having “motoring” in your party’s name, & yet u might stop the “carbon tax” being repealed.
    motorists stand to suffer more than non-motorists from the many consequences of such a tax. not to mention how it impacts on distribution (trucks, other vehicles) which then increases the cost of EVERYTHING.

    Muir needs counselling.


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    pat

    Yonniestone -

    i was hoping u were there. good luck.


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    pat

    really & truly. who the hell do abc think they are? a shadow government? enough of this crap. at least a few of the nine commenting aren’t impressed:

    27 June: ABC FactCheck: Fact check: Tony Abbott overstating household savings from axing the carbon tax
    ABC Fact Check looked at this issue in 2013…
    As Mr Abbott regularly repeats his claim and Senate scrutiny is imminent, ABC Fact Check investigates again.
    Verdict:
    Mr Abbott’s claim is overstated.
    COMMENTS:

    hob nob:
    There would have to savings at the ABC, given the amount of time that many journo’s currently spend writing about this topic.
    Our electricity prices are already amongst the highest in the developed world. There would be many many businesses (and households) looking very much forward to a decrease in the electricity bill. I know I am. Well done Clive…

    depressed_expat: The Fact Checker asserts that Mr Abbot’s claims are overstated.
    Yet in the first year, and one year that the carbon taxes are fixed and factually known it is very clear the savings are substantial.
    The basis that the Fact Checker says Mr Abbot’s claims are overstated are that the 2nd and following years are floating and are ‘estimated’ to be less.
    See here’s where it gets tricky. Estimates are forecasts: most certainly not facts. If facts of the wisest advice I ever received was that forecast are almost always wrong – so plan accordingly.
    How is the conclusion drawn that Mr Abbott has overstated? How does this fact checker know that the forecasted floating carbon price wont change dramatically. Indeed, based on the knowledge that the fixed price for year 1 is high, and likely has a lot of science put in it, I’d estimate (i.e. have an opinion) that the floating carbon price (year 2) is likely to converge (increase) as we get closer to that time.
    But that would be just one opinion. Maybe this piece should be called ABC Opinion rather than ABC Factcheck. Maybe when there things that are not ‘facts’ i.e. forecasts , the ABC Factcheck should not be applied. Opinion masquerading as fact is the most dangerous propaganda of all (opinion)…

    simco9:
    Do not see mentioned once the impact of 6 cents per litre on diesel that would have come in on 1 July 2014. Maybe we need to do fact check on ABC????
    http://www.abc.net.au/news/2014-06-27/tony-abbott-carbon-tax-savings-overstated-fact-check/5554748


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    pat

    this probably needs a factcheck:

    27 June: ABC: Hydro Tasmania to cut about 100 jobs, cites carbon tax repeal as factor
    By Stephen Smiley
    Hydro Tasmania has announced it is to cut about 100 jobs, citing the repeal of the carbon tax as a factor.
    The state-owned power company attributed the cuts to the scrapping of the carbon tax, doubt over the future of the Renewable Energy Target, and a downturn in the consulting market.
    In a statement, it said it would first look to reduce its workforce by natural attrition and a round of voluntary redundancies…
    Hydro Tasmania has returned record profits in recent years, but it said the outlook for the year ahead was challenging.
    ***The company has forecasted a profit of less than $20 million in the coming financial year…
    http://www.abc.net.au/news/2014-06-27/hydro-tasmania-to-cut-100-jobs/5555732

    ***investigative journalism at its finest – quote bernie fraser!
    shut down the ABC:

    27 June: ABC Background Briefing: Is the carbon tax to blame for high electricity prices?
    (Background Briefing is ***investigative journalism at its finest, exploring the issues of the day and examining society in a lively on-the-road documentary style.)
    The Coalition says it is removing the carbon tax to help families who are struggling to pay their bills. The reality is that the rise in electricity prices has little to do with the tax, and there’s unlikely to be any big savings once it’s gone, writes Jess Hill…
    ???The most talked about piece of legislation in living memory will become a historical footnote after the Senate changes hands on July 1…
    According to Bernie Fraser, the chair of the Climate Change Authority…
    As we use fewer kilowatts, they have to raise their charges in order to recover their rate of return.
    It’s hard to put that in a soundbite, and Labor’s given up trying. Maybe once the carbon tax is gone we’ll have a real conversation about why the price of power is so high.
    http://www.abc.net.au/radionational/programs/backgroundbriefing/is-the-carbon-tax-to-blame-for-high-electricity-prices/5555070


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      Rod Stuart

      Hydro Tasmania has announced it is to cut about 100 jobs, citing the repeal of the carbon tax as a factor.

      If one consider Truth to be “the truth, the WHOLE truth, and nothing but the truth, then this amounts to a bald faced lie.

      The fact of the matter is that the tax on air has been allowing Hydro to generate dividends for the State at the rate of $200 M per year, because for two years it has been exporting 500 MW of so-called ‘clean’ energy to Victoria sans the tax on air. At the same time Hydro has been transforming Victorian gas into electricity at the rate of 208 MW to compensate the State’s consumption of Hydro electric generation.

      This windfall is about to vanish. In addition, Hydro’s Engineering arm, Entura, has hardly any business, as it must compete with other Engineering consultants who are also in the process of letting people go. The ‘loss of jobs’ is for the most part from Entura, and the remainder due to ‘restructuring’ within Hydro.

      So to complain that the tax on air is a ‘factor’ is no more truthful than saying that, even though the contribution of CO2 to atmospheric temperature is virtually nil above 30 PPM, at 400 PPM CO2 is a ‘factor’ in determining Earth’s surface temperature.

      Another ‘factor’ in Hydro’s restructuring is that is worried stiff that changes to the RET would render it’s bird chompers redundant, creating the need for a very damaging write-down of assets.


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    pat

    Yonniestone -

    this is the kind of think ricky muir needs to understand. scam, scam, scam:

    27 June: Bloomberg: Nidaa Bakhsh: EU Seen Curbing Coal Use by Quadrupling Carbon Price
    Europe could coax utilities to shift from burning coal to cleaner natural gas by quadrupling the price that financial markets place on carbon dioxide emissions, the head of Spain’s biggest power generator said.
    Ignacio Galan, chairman and chief executive officer ofIberdrola (IBE) SA, said European Union leaders should take steps to boost prices in the EU Emissions Trading System in addition to setting a target to reduce pollution by 40 percent by 2030.
    “A carbon price of 20 to 30 euros is the right level for switching from coal to gas,” Galan said in an interview at Bloomberg’s office in London. Carbon has fallen by a third to less than 6 euros ($8.17) a metric ton since 2011 as slower economic growth reduced industrial production and the need to offset pollution…

    ***Coal’s share of world energy demand rose to the highest level since 1970, making it the fastest-growing fossil fuel, the oil producer BP estimates…

    The Iberdrola executive also wants to see reforms to the carbon trading system that would boost prices, sending polluters a signal that they’ll have to pay more for fossil fuel emissions. ***Iberdrola is a major developer of wind farms and natural gas-fired power stations, which emit less carbon than ones that use coal…

    ***A shale boom in the U.S. led to a collapse in gas prices that’s helped consumers and stimulated industries, forcing cheaper, more-polluting coal to be shipped to Europe for use in power stations…
    http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2014-06-27/eu-seen-curbing-coal-use-by-quadrupling-carbon-price.html


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    pat

    27 June: Crikey: Fairfax gets it wrong on climate
    Clive Palmer has saved the carbon price, said Fairfax! Except no, he hasn’t. How did Fairfax get it so wrong?…
    Fairfax got it wrong on climate change policy this week, leading to a series of messy and confusing stories. Did the company’s relentless downsizing play a part in the problem?…
    Thursday’s SMH ran an editorial, “Palmer carbon plan forces Abbot to get real”, welcoming Palmer’s new approach to climate change, and even claiming it as an SMH idea…
    The problem? This is not what Clive Palmer said at all. Fairfax got it wrong…

    (LOL LOL LOL) The misleading original story was written by Fairfax journos James Massola, Mark Kenny and Heath Aston. None have extensive experience writing in depth on the complicated, challenging area of Australian climate change policy. The Fairfax journalists who would have got the story right — most notably Lenore Taylor — have left (she’s at The Guardian). Fairfax staffers Ben Cubby and Adam Morton are both across climate policy, but have shifted to other roles at the company.
    The moral of the story? News organisations who lose experienced policy reporters will see their coverage decline, leaving readers the poorer. And Fairfax’s early deadlines may not have helped on this occasion.
    http://www.crikey.com.au/2014/06/27/fairfax-gets-it-wrong-on-climate/


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    pat

    like abc/fairfax/guardian, bloomberg/businessweek story adopts the “do it for obama” schtick.

    26 June: Bloomberg/Businessweek: Andrew Mayeda: Incentives for Carbon to Help Keystone Bid, Canada’s Liberal Party Leader Says
    Canada should establish a price for carbon emissions to show it’s addressing climate change and to give President Barack Obama political “cover” to approve TransCanada Corp. (TRP)’s $5.4 billion project, Trudeau, leader of Canada’s Liberal Party said yesterday in an interview in Fort McMurray, Alberta…
    Trudeau’s call to action contrasts with Prime Minister Stephen Harper’s position that he won’t regulate oil and gas emissions without similar U.S. measures because it would put Canadian producers at a competitive disadvantage…
    Harper said June 9 that the U.S. moves don’t go as far as Canada’s regulations in the power-generation sector. He said Canada would deal with climate change in a way that protects Canadian jobs, not destroys them…
    http://www.businessweek.com/news/2014-06-26/trudeau-says-incentinves-for-carbon-to-help-keystone-bid


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    pat

    ***Fairfax (& ABC Lateline, judging from the Tony Jones questioning detailed in this piece) still tying themselves up in knots to spin the Palmer position:

    26 June: SMH: Michael Pascoe: Clive Palmer’s ETS: What he’s saying, what he’s thinking, and what he might actually mean
    ***The most likely translation is that today’s Sydney Morning Herald editorial is incorrect – Palmer’s willingness to axe the carbon tax is not contingent on the adoption of an ETS with the carbon price set at zero…
    Last night’s Lateline interview with Tony Jones is a case in point. If you’re feeling strong, read the transcript and try to understand exactly what is going to happen to the ETS and other carbon-related legislation in what order…
    Earlier on the 7.30 Report, Greens leader Christine Milne was persisting with the inane conviction that we already have an ETS and that it’s working well. Um, there’s a considerable difference between legislation being in existence and actually having a working ETS, just as there is a big difference between me having a Powerball ticket and winning Powerball…
    http://www.smh.com.au/business/comment-and-analysis/clive-palmers-ets-what-hes-saying-what-hes-thinking-and-what-he-might-actually-mean-20140626-zsme5.html


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    pat

    just for the record:

    the prominent, top story on my google news page right now is the ridiculous abc factcheck posted earlier – “Fact check: Tony Abbott overstating household savings from axing the carbon tax”.

    those google al-gore-ithms are truly spooky.


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    Scott Mc

    A tax is not wanted by the likes of Gore, they want cap and trade, where the money can more easily be diverted into swiss bank accounts


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    pat

    SMH & Business Spectator’s Edis spin the CEFC as a profit-making entity. where’s the evidence, guys? how long will this meme last?

    27 June: SMH: The four who brought together Clive Palmer and Al Gore
    James Massola, Tom Arup, Heath Aston
    As late as Wednesday morning, the conspirators behind one of most unlikely press conference in political history were still not completely convinced it would go ahead. It wasn’t until Al Gore stepped off the plane that Don Henry, Ben Oquist, Andrew Crook and John Clements breathed a sigh of relief…
    Clive Palmer’s headline-grabbing double act with Gore may have appeared impromptu but the former US vice-president’s road to Canberra began months earlier.
    Henry – until this year the long-serving chief executive of the Australian Conservation Foundation – had already organised an Australian visit as part of Gore’s climate change education venture. Gore sought Henry’s advice about meeting other people in his time down under. Henry suggested Palmer, given his party’s role in the Senate…
    At the same time Clements – a long-time staffer to former independent MP Tony Windsor – was lobbying Palmer about the importance of the climate change measures agreed by the former Parliament.
    As an insider explained, for Clements ”there were legacy issues involved in protecting elements of the package … he was interested in protecting the [Clean Energy Finance Corporation and the renewable energy target]”.
    Oquist, a former chief of staff to Greens leaders Bob Brown and Christine Milne who is now with the Australia Institute, was also working on Palmer…
    Oquist lobbied him to consider the merits of the Climate Change Authority, (???)the money-making Clean Energy Finance Corporation and the possibility of a zero-dollar emissions trading scheme. He pushed the benefits of the renewable energy target, supported by few Coalition MPs….
    Palmer agreed quickly to back the financing corporation, a position some PUP senators had already warmed too. But for Gore to get on stage, Palmer had to swing behind the renewable energy target…
    Henry told ABC Radio on Thursday that Gore had not been ”played” by Palmer. He said Gore did not give his blessing to axe the carbon tax but saw the merit in saving clean energy infrastructure and a commitment to a future ETS…
    Late on Wednesday night in a dining room in Parliament House, Gore and Palmer again took centre stage at an intimate dinner for about 20 people.
    Clements, Oquist, Henry, Crook were on hand, as was PUP senator Glenn Lazarus, Lock the Gate campaigner Drew Hutton, and federal independent MP Cathy McGowan…
    http://www.smh.com.au/federal-politics/political-news/the-four-who-brought-together-clive-palmer-and-al-gore-20140626-3awgy.html

    26 June: Business Spectator: Tristan Edis: Have Clive Palmer and Al Gore given Turnbull the last laugh?
    Clive gave a speech of soaring rhetoric, suggesting a ‘Road to Damascus’-like conversion…
    He also said his party will block the government’s attempt to abolish the $10 billion Clean Energy Finance Corporation which provides loans to support renewable energy and energy efficiency projects. According to Mr Palmer, he couldn’t see much point in abolishing such an institution when it was (???)making a profit and would cost jobs…
    And it leaves you wondering – did that dinner with Malcolm Turnbull and Martin Parkinson (who was the architect of the carbon price before becoming Treasury Secretary) have anything to do with Clive’s sudden change of heart?
    http://www.businessspectator.com.au/article/2014/6/26/carbon-markets/have-clive-palmer-and-al-gore-given-turnbull-last-laugh


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    pat

    SBS at least includes a response from the Tasmanian Govt on the Hydro Tasmania story, which ABC didn’t.
    meanwhile, SBS only mentioned the carbon tax repeal legislation passed in the Lower House in a single AAP line – “The legislation passed the lower house on Thursday evening and now has to pass the Senate” – inserted into an article headlined “Carbon tax to face Senate vote within a fortnight”:

    27 June: SBS: The carbon tax repeal is being blamed for the loss of around 100 jobs at Hydro Tasmania.
    Tasmanian Energy Minister Matthew Groom said it would be wrong to solely blame the carbon tax repeal.
    “I would express genuine caution in suggesting that these job losses at Hydro are a result of a particular factor,” Mr Groom told reporters.
    “There’s a whole range of factors. The carbon tax didn’t exist two years ago.
    “To suggest that these job losses are a result of a single factor I think is an over-simplification.”
    Mr Groom said axing the tax would relieve cost-of-living pressures in the state.
    http://www.sbs.com.au/news/article/2014/06/27/carbon-tax-repeal-claims-hydro-jobs

    which reminds me. i switched from the tennis for a minute during a change-over the night the carbon tax repeal was passed in the Lower House, & they were showing the newspaper front pages for the following day. i was stunned. not a single newspaper i saw had the repeal as its major story. it was probably on the front pages, but too small to be evident on the tv. it was so surreal, it was as though they were showing the wrong papers!


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    pat

    28 June: Australian: Sid Maher: Direct action to benefit from Clean Energy Finance Corporation funds
    THE Clean Energy Finance Corporation is likely to be directed away from lending to wind farms in favour of programs that ­support the Coalition’s “direct ­action” plan such as energy-­efficiency schemes and leasing for solar hot water systems.
    In the wake of Clive Palmer’s declaration this week that his ­senators will vote to retain the CEFC, it has emerged that Joe Hockey and Finance Minister Mathias Cormann have the power to alter the CEFC’s investment mandate without parliament being able to reverse the move…
    Twenty-two per cent of the CEFC’s loans in its first year were for wind projects…
    http://www.theaustralian.com.au/national-affairs/policy/direct-action-to-benefit-from-clean-energy-finance-corporation-funds/story-e6frg6xf-1226969557702?nk=367558f62dbd0a0a7dc0d9ba7a5c2243


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      the Griss

      This is quite funny really.

      The Liberals have plans to develop the north of Australia.

      I can see hydro dams, and sota coal fired power stations being part of the clean energy mix.

      And of course the roads needed to get to those facilities.

      The Liberals’ plans for the development of northern Australia, funded COURTESY OF THE GREEN AGENDA. :-)


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    pat

    i had to link to the cached version to get this Non-Reality piece:

    27 June: The Daily Blog: Julie Anne Genter: My day with Al Gore
    This week I have the enormous privilege of attending The Climate Reality Leadership Corps training in Melbourne. The Climate Reality Project was founded by Al Gore, Nobel Laureate and former US Vice President…
    I am one of about 500 leaders at this training. Many are from Australia, but also New Zealand, Singapore, Philippines, and other Asia-Pacific countries. There are about 6,000 leaders around the world who have completed the training since it started in 2006…
    ***Al Gore’s presentation on climate change is the main bulk of the training, and he spoke for about 8 hours today going through the detail of the slide show, with several prominent climate scientists on stage to assist with answering technical questions…
    Al Gore is an inspiring and energetic speaker. I don’t cry easily, but throughout his presentation I found myself holding back tears….
    Take Syria, for example. The 2006-2009 drought turned 60% of Syria’s fertile land turned into desert. They lost 80% of their cattle. There were one million refugees from the drought, who collided with one million refugees from Iraq…
    Renewable energy is already growing as coal use is declining…
    But we have major political barriers because the transformation to a clean economy will cost a few big companies some profits, especially in the short term.
    That’s why the Climate Reality Project and others like it are so important. It’s a grass roots movement to inform and inspire people to act.
    As Al Gore said at the end of his presentation, this planet is our home. We have got to fight for it.
    https://thedailyblog.co.nz/2014/06/27/my-day-with-al-gore/

    Wikipedia: Julie Anner Genter
    She is a New Zealand politician and a member of the New Zealand House of Representatives in her role as the transport spokeswoman for the Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand…
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Julie_Anne_Genter


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    pat

    should have added, who wouldn’t want to cry if al gore spoke for EIGHT HOURS?


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    pat

    Who Is Steven Goddard?
    COMMENT: Why the coming out, not that your true identity was hidden?…
    RESPONSE: I’m speaking at the Heartland Conference next month.
    http://stevengoddard.wordpress.com/2014/06/27/who-is-steven-goddard/


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    Beachcomber

    Al’s purpose in life is to demonstrate how it is possible to be bulled by a Gore!


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    pat

    how the carbon tax was used to save the planet from CAGW….not:

    26 June: News Ltd: Will the carbon tax repeal really mean we get back $550 a year?
    But electricity bills are only expected to make up about $200 of the $550 a year in savings the Prime Minister says households should receive from repeal of the tax.
    The savings are also expected to impact prices for transport, water and waste management…
    At least one council looks unwilling to let go of rate increases tied to the carbon tax.
    Brisbane City Council increased its rates by 1.9 per cent to cover the tax but will not say whether it will remove this additional charge if the tax is repealed.
    When news.com.au asked yesterday whether the charge would be removed, a spokeswoman responded: “The 2014/15 Brisbane City Council Budget is based on the current legislation, as it has been since 2012 when the carbon tax was introduced. Federal legislation to repeal the carbon tax has yet to receive approval”…
    Brisbane was one of 34 local councils identified across Australia as those likely to have to pay the tax, most of them because they manage large landfill sites.
    Even if others do stop charging for the carbon tax, the savings may still not reach ratepayers.
    Mindarie Regional Council runs a landfill in Perth’s north that several councils use. A council spokesman said it will likely drop the user fee of $7.40 per tonne that it collects to cover the carbon tax, but this saving may not be passed on…
    Melbourne Water, which is owned by the Victorian Government, has already set its water prices to include the tax and this is not due to be reviewed until 2017-18.
    A spokesman for Melbourne Water said the current pricing period started on July 1, 2013 and covered the next five years.
    “If costs come down, there is a possibility of reopening the cycle, but it’s only opened on an annual basis … if there were exceptional circumstances,” the spokesman said…
    Queensland Competition Authority chairman Malcolm Roberts said prices would increase by $191 if the carbon tax continued. Even if it was repealed, a typical residential customer would face a price a 5.1 per cent rise, costing them an extra $72 in 2014-15.
    He said the main factors pushing up prices were wholesale energy costs driven by higher gas prices, the doubling in costs of the Solar Bonus Scheme and network charges…
    Max Spedding, director of resource recovery at Veolia, said some state governments were planning to increase their waste levies and this combined with increases to operating costs could absorb much of the benefit of axing the tax…
    Another issue for owners of landfills is that because governments can change, they could still be expected to cover emissions liabilities for 30 to 40 years.
    A Mindarie Council spokesman said there was a question mark over what would happen to the millions already collected that had not been spent.
    In 2012/13, the council only paid $24 in carbon tax, yet it has collected $1.3 million.
    The spokesman said it was difficult to estimate the amount of methane generated from each tonne of waste as it could continue to release fumes for 30 to 40 years…
    Veolia’s Max Spedding said one lesson that has been learnt by industry is that as governments change, liabilities can return, and the uncertainty is one reason why companies are reluctant to refund money already collected.
    And while Veolia has agreed to remove the carbon tax from July 1, not all other companies have done the same…
    The City of Newcastle also wants to keep $1.5 million it has collected in carbon tax to cover future liabilities from its landfill site…
    http://www.news.com.au/finance/money/will-the-carbon-tax-repeal-really-mean-we-get-back-550-a-year/story-e6frfmci-1226967556477


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    pat

    also sickening:

    27 June: UK Daily Mail: Sean Poulter: Energy sharks make £101 profit per family: Major inquiry launched into power rip-offs
    Ofgem yesterday announced a full-blown inquiry into the energy market
    Energy companies are making £101 profit a year from every family – an astonishing 1,000 per cent increase in just five years.
    Industry regulator Ofgem yesterday announced a full-blown inquiry into the energy market as it revealed that the profit figure had doubled from £48 last year, despite a fall of up to 38 per cent in wholesale gas and electricity prices…
    Ofgem’s figures highlight a steady and painful rise in energy bills and profit margins over the past five years – a time when some consumers have faced a nightmare choice between heating and eating…
    The executive director of consumer group, Which?, Richard Lloyd, said: ‘This is a watershed moment for the broken energy market and millions of people struggling to cope with spiralling bills…
    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2671069/Energy-sharks-make-101-profit-family-Major-inquiry-launched-power-rip-offs.html


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    Eliza

    JO:Palmer has done a major con job on the warmist’s They haven’t even noticed… YET! hahaha
    http://www.gympietimes.com.au/news/Senator-Xenaphon-has-called-Clives-ETS-a-con/2303385/The man never believed in the con. He has used his political acumen to basically kill the whole AGW thing in Australia which now has 0 AGW plans/programs. Smart man I say.


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    Egor TheOne

    Great post on the Palmer / Gore Scenario , and great insite !!
    My guess is that they both seem really keen on the ” must keep the renewables ” ……probable business interests of both of them !!
    Notice that Gore does not see Milne ( the green Side of the argument ) !
    Who he does see and have dinner with is Palmer ( the money / business side of the argument )!!
    Thankfully , we have people like Dr Dennis Jensen MP , Andrew Bolt and many notable others , that continue to pursue the climate clown high priests like Gore and the many others that perpetuate this global fraud and lucrative green gravy train !!!
    Keep up the good work and good fight , Jo Nova, …….Glad you’re on our side , the right side !!


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