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Coalition starts axing Australia’s carbon-bureaucrat-machinery

The clean up begins.  I am beaming.

Just enjoy with me the small sweet pleasure of a day when government waste shrinks. There is no joy in axing jobs of workers, albeit ones who should never have been employed in the first place. But there is satisfaction in knowing that hundreds of pointless reports and press releases will not have to be debunked, and millions of dollars in taxes can be put to some other use (or returned to taxpayers – I can dream).

[The Australian]  PUBLIC servants are drawing up plans to collapse 33 climate change schemes run by seven departments and eight agencies into just three bodies run by two departments under a substantial rewrite of the administration of carbon abatement schemes under the Coalition.

Looks like DIICCSRTE the Department of Everything is gone forever. (That’s the  Department of Industry, Innovation, Climate Change, Science, Research and Tertiary Education). Now the climate change programs will run under the Department of Environment and the Department of Resources and Energy. We are back to sensible acronyms.

The move is forecast to save the government tens of millions of dollars. The Coalition budgeted for savings of $7 million this financial year rising to $13m in each of the next three years for a saving of $45m across the budget period.

Alas that’s only small bucks. There are still too many Agencies to Change the Weather.

The changes will see all carbon abatement schemes run by three bodies: the Australian Renewable Energy Agency, which will be overseen by the Department of Resources and Energy; and the Clean Energy Regulator and Low Carbon Australia, which will be run by the Department of the Environment.

Climate Commission, CEFC to be abolished

This was raised in April: Jobs and junkets are on the line. There is no date yet. It is “slated”.

Tony Abbott said then that he “didn’t see the point of paying Professor Tim Flannery about $180,000 a year for views which he considers already public knowledge”

The Climate Change Authority, which sets emissions caps, the Climate Commission, which has conducted research into climate change, and the Clean Energy Finance Corporation, which funds renewable technologies, are all slated to be abolished under the plans.

Look at how extensive the network of climate officers is:

Treasury has responsibility for Low Carbon Australia and the CEFC, while the Industry Department has control over a range of clean technology programs. The Department of Agriculture runs a series of carbon farming programs, while the Department of Families runs household assistance packages, home energy savings programs and the remote indigenous energy program.

The $10 billion dollar Clean Energy Finance Corporation is very worried:

The CEFC confirmed yesterday it had stopped making loans for energy efficiency and clean energy programs. Staff at the $10 billion green bank are seeking a meeting with the incoming Abbott government as a top priority.

The Coalition will need to legislate to abolish the CEFC, which has amassed a $560m investment portfolio and leveraged $1.6bn in private sector investment…

Read the full story in The Australian

There is satisfaction…

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338 comments to Coalition starts axing Australia’s carbon-bureaucrat-machinery

  • #

    Treasury has responsibility for Low Carbon Australia and the CEFC, while the Industry Department has control over a range of clean technology programs. The Department of Agriculture runs a series of carbon farming programs, while the Department of Families runs household assistance packages, home energy savings programs and the remote indigenous energy program.

    It’s turtles, all the way down. Through all levels of government, institutions, businesses and even volunteer associations.


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    • #
      Rereke Whakaaro

      It’s turtles, all the way down.

      That is because the Public Service is “customer focused.”

      Agencies that are “customer facing” have responsibility for administrating climate-related matters that apply to that agency’s target audience. Then, or course, you need to provide cross-agency coordination to ensure that, “the customer,” receives consistent information, and receives their full range of entitlements.

      This is best done by another agency that has overall responsibility for delivery.

      Then, as you point out, there are a number of other agencies, each with responsibility for policy development in one area of society, or one type of technology, or one area “of concern.” These agencies will usually have “units” responsible for climate matters, within the larger organisation. These agency-specific “units” will require coordination, so another agency is established to define and monitor overall policy, and report to the appropriate Minister.

      The policy setting agency will, of course, be staffed with career bureaucrats, who can only act on qualified advice. So they will establish specialised technical advisory units to handle the hard stuff. The to monitor such technical advice, it becomes appropriate to commission an “independent” non-government body that can advise on a range of technical matters.

      Happy Turtles.

      Until somebody comes along, to drain the swamp they live in.


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    • #
      OzWizard

      It’s turtles, all the way down.

      … but what if one of them is a human, disguised as a turtle.


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  • #
    turnedoutnice

    Well done Australia.


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    • #
      Winston

      In Memoriam

      “Ode to Kevin”

      How do I love me? Let me count the ways.

      I love me to the depth and breadth and height

      My soul can reach, when feeling out of sight

      For the ends of Being and ideal Grace.

      I love me to the level of everyday’s

      Most quiet need, by sun and candle-light.

      I love me freely, as I strive for Right;

      I love me purely, as I turn from Praise.

      I love me with a passion put to use

      In my old griefs, and with my childhood’s faith.

      I love me with a love I seemed to lose

      With my lost saints, — I love me with the breath,

      Smiles, tears, of all my life! — and, if God choose,

      I shall but love me better after death.


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  • #
    Cookster

    They need to get rid of Low Carbon Australia too. Another propaganda unit that no taxpayer should be forced to subsidise.


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  • #

    Australia, lead the way! You don’t know how jealous I am of your new government. I wrote about it at http://thediplomad.blogspot.com/2013/09/hope-from-land-of-tomorrow-aussies.html

    Keep at it. Sanity finally begins to return to the West.


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    • #
      Rolf

      We can only hope this is the first government to be wiped out and that all the other Air Taxers and fraudsters will follow. That would be better than Christmas every week …


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    • #
      Roy Hogue

      You don’t know how glad I am to see The Diplomad again. I was a huge fan until the blog disappeared shortly after the Indonesian tsunami.

      Welcome back! I shall be a regular reader. :-)


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  • #
    farmerbraun

    Soil -building is a good idea ; remote power is a good idea also. Just take that “indigenous” word out of it.
    Australian soils would benefit from being high carbon. High Carbon? Did I really say that?


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    • #
      realist

      “Australian soils would benefit from being high carbon”

      I don’t disagree with the concept in the statement. However, be wary of not following the greenie track of “snap frozen thought bubbles” that are not backed up by science. The research and simple analysis of biochemistry shows there are clear constraints and cost limitations to increasing the “carbon” in soil. Most is actually in the biological component, not the chemical store. The saying, “You can’t make a silk purse out of a sow’s ear”, applies.

      It takes energy and a particular ratio of elements to form a humus molecule before “carbon” can be stored in soils in a non-labile form (like capital investment in storage, versus cash flow in organic matter and biology). And with industrial agricultural practices, which apply high rates of synthetic nitrogen, it burns up the soil carbon in metabolic processes to form new cells (with a comensurate increase in productivity) and most of the carbon is released back into the atmosphere to held in various sinks before it cycles around again. It can be like high use at the ATM but not as much going in the other side.

      Inconvenient facts wipe out the “direct action” policy of the new government as having any tangible value. While it makes a nice sound bite and a sop to the un-educated soft-green voter, it’s just another flawed idea. And let’s not get side-tracked here, the whole notion and argument for “rescuing the climate” is built on a foundation of bullshit coming from computers, not bovines. That’s the core argument: there is no science to support any policies of Labor, Greens or LNP to somehow “manage” carbon in all it’s derivative forms.


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      • #
        Rereke Whakaaro

        It takes energy and a particular ratio of elements to form a humus molecule …

        What is “a humus molecule”? What is its’ chemical formula? Through what chemical process is it created?

        As you can tell, from my questioning, this is obviously an area of research that I have not come across before.

        And, in what way does synthetic nitrogen differ from “natural” nitrogen? What are the differences in the chemical formulae?

        Gosh, there is so much that I don’t know! For example, I have no idea how nitrogen would “burn up” soil carbon (or how soil carbon might differ, from regular common or garden (joke there) carbon. And then, how can the majority of the carbon go back into the atmosphere to be held in sinks. What are these atmospheric sinks?

        I think I need to go back to uni. We didn’t discuss any of this in the lectures I attended, at least, not in the ones where I was both sober and awake.

        You are right, inconvenient facts may wipe out the policies of the new government. Especially when those inconvenient facts are of the standard you present here. It is to be hoped that your third paragraph was intended sartorially, and not presented as a reasonable position.

        How does synthetic nitrogen “burn up soil carbon


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        AndyG55

        What soils really benefit from is a goodly supply of organic matter.

        You don’t want to lock the carbon into the soil, you want it in a usable form for worms and other bugs.

        Like anything, you need movement of carbon and useful carbon compounds in and out of the soil

        Everything is about achieving sustained multi-way flows. Same as in the economy.


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        • #
          Dave

          Totally right AndyG55,

          If the 55 is any indication of age or DOB then you’d recognise this. No empting of the grass catcher.

          Along with the downpipes and the washing machine and laundry troughs going onto the lawn, we used to have the best grass area, and everything grew so well. Now with all this new GREEN Building regulations etc, the lawns cost a fortune to upkeep, fertiliser, water, lawn grub killer, weedicides etc. Had chooks also, a 44 gallon drum down the back for burning rubbish, and everything was almost recycled in each individual block.

          But now we get charged for water, can’t use our own house water waste directly on our gardens, can’t burn off in incinerators, pay CO2 tax on electricity for pumps, fish-n-chips came wrapped in newspaper, blue bags (Ricketts I think) were used to whiten shirts (and it used to kill the tree roots in clay pipes), old engine oil was used for killing weeds on the fence line (and preserving wood fence posts) and water came out of a tap, not a plastic bottles.

          Just about everything went on the garden or lawn. Dog poos weren’t wrapped up in taxpayer provided plastic bags to go to landfill, they were mowed over along with everything else.

          Collecting any money whether it’s $23.00 or $1.00 will make a difference to the land, by wrecking it through economics and regulations.

          The GREEN VANDALS have a lot to answer for. It’s the regulations that are really starting to shlt me now, we are instructed to do as they say.


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        • #
          Apoxonbothyourhouses

          Off topic AndyG55 but my mangoes are fruiting well this year and I’m hoping for a bumper crop of figs.


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      • #
        Roy Hogue

        …a foundation of bullshit coming from computers, not bovines.

        Then let’s call it what it is — bitshit.

        And you’re right about it without any doubt too. :-)


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  • #
    Eddie Sharpe

    Now the Carbon Dioxide scam is at last collapsing, the next big scare is already ramping up, with Sir David Attenborough getting put there and saying there are too many Carbon Units to support evolution. Evolution has stalled


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    • #
      Annie

      Has he flipped his lid?


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    • #
      Bulldust

      Reading most of the article I don’t see a problem with the statement. If one subscribes to the survival of the fittest type evolutionary theory, modern society and technology clearly overpowers those forces in advanced economies. I would argue, however, that we are adapting faster than ever to all that technology change. Is that another type of evolution?

      It may be that Attenborough, being the vintage that he is, might still subscribe to eugenics. A certain German gent kinda put a taint on that type of thinking.

      Reading between the lines it seems like he would like a few more countries to adopt one child policies.


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      • #

        Natural selection works by survival of the fittest to adapt to change.

        It’s change that is the necessary stimulus to the process of evolution. Without a changing environment, there is no “need” for a species to evolve. Any mutations that would favour a changed environment have no advantage and may have a significant disadvantage in competition with those who didn’t mutate as mutations almost invariably “give up” some other trait.

        Sir David Attenborough on the one hand argues that evolution is “stopping” while on the other hand says that the environment is changing rapidly. His reason why that isn’t a contradiction is falsified by observing that the process of evolution was running OK when the planet was under a CO2-heavy atmosphere.

        Sir David is giving old pharts a bad name.


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        • #
          Gee Aye

          Bernd sort of right but also quite wrong. A completely static and unchanged environment will still have plenty of evolving happening due to the fact that natural variation exists within species, and that some individuals/species are better adapted to this static unchanging environment. New mutations will come along just the same as if there is a changing environment and these will also compete for reproductive success via the organism that harbours them.

          The consequence, of course, is that with shifts in species abundance and characteristics, the ecosystems will change over time. Therefore no unchanging environment is possible where life exists.


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          • #
            Rereke Whakaaro

            No, I think what you suggest is too simplistic.

            All species have natural variation and some individuals are better adapted to the static status quo. It is that genetic material that best fits this unchanging status quo that will become dominant, and over time the propensity for variation will decrease.

            This has been seen with managed genetics used in breeding cattle, and also in the breeding of competition and thoroughbred racing horses. Genetic material from non-thoroughbred bloodlines must be introduced periodically in order to ensure that the original bloodline does not decline.


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            • #
              Gee Aye

              The statement that a changing requirement drives evolution is false.

              Of course I was not being simplistic, I was being concise but unlike your reply not ignorant of the facts. Some salient points.

              1. New mutations can still arise in any system and allow for rapid change due if they convey a greater chance of reprouctive success.

              2. Canalysing due to strong selective pressures (such as your animal breeding examples, disease and pesticide resistance are some others)) leads to LESS variation and a smaller chance for breakthrough mutations. ie the highly changing environment leads to less genetic diversity and biodiversity. Compare the diversity in older static rainforests with that in regions of great change.

              3. Your animal breeding example with inbreeding and the mechanisms to avoid the negative consequences has little connection with what occurs in stable environments.


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              • #
                Bulldust

                In terms of humans, which was the gist of the original sub-post, should technological adaptation be considered part of an extended evolutionary development? Why should only DNA changes be considered, when clearly we are far more than the sum of our DNA expression. What humans have shown, moreso than any other species on the planet, is that we can overcome just about any environmental stressor that can be thrown at us … though I suspect a big rock from space would still be pretty much terminal. Won’t be much longer for us to avoid extinction that way either.

                Anyone here putting their hand up to go to Mars BTW? Brooksie want to boldly go and split infinitives? MattB? I tbhink the first ship should be called the B Ark /nod


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              • #
                Gee Aye

                and we (humans) are more than the sum of individuals. I think in this context that the “evolving” that humans are doing is due to our increasing ability to mobilise resources and store and retrieve information. Whether it is actual evolution or not boils down to semantics. My definition of evolution excludes anything but changes caused by changes in DNA (or RNA) so we’ll never agree. It doesn’t mean that I don’t think these things are important or significant aspects to how we evolve.


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              • #
                Dave

                Good question BD

                Should technological adaptation be considered part of an extended evolutionary development?

                BD “Why should only DNA changes be considered?”
                GA “My definition of evolution excludes anything but changes caused by changes in DNA”

                Isn’t it possible that the people involved in the rapid expansion of technology could have mutations (or what ever you want to call it) that are better able to cope with this new information stream?

                Why is a possible genetic difference been totally excluded. Same with all science, music, engineering fields where some are much more capable than others. Same with the new Motor Body Senator, he’s wired for mechanics.

                Just asking? Not all brains are wired the same, and is this genetic influence of some form?


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      • #
        Roy Hogue

        Bulldust,

        Technology simply changes the meaning of fitness for survival. What’s new? I figured that one out years ago. And how is it that Sir David gets the brass nerve to think we could do anything to change it? He should get a real life. The atmosphere is a little too thin up there in the heady land of knights, fair damsels and dragons needing to be slain.


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      • #
        Andrew McRae

        The only major problem I have with Rabbitborough’s viewpoint is that it’s hypocritical about the presence of evolution.
        He bemoans the loss of evolution by *natural* selection in society.
        At the same time he wants a two-child (or 1 child) policy in place.
        Artificially limiting the reproductive opportunities so that successful people have no more children than the hangers-on is only going to slow down evolution more.
        Even so, there is surely some natural selection taking place in a society of a 2-child policy with regards to preferential employment and mate attraction, as long as one considers that genes are not the only way we can inherit advantages from parents or attract a mate to begin with.

        It already costs more in time, money, patience, and management skills, to raise four children than two. Yet still some cultures encourage having lots of babies which is going to lead to the crowding and shortages to which Rabbitborough alludes. If we try to out-root the Joneses it’s just a race to the overcrowded bottom – a sort of Tragedy Of The Commons, so to speak. The current cost rate of reproduction is not steep enough to create population stability. The only rate of population growth that is indefinitely sustainable is zero, so a fixed population target slightly above current levels would be logical if preserving human dignity and affluence is considered important.

        Dare I say… a Baby Emissions Trading Scheme would preserve affluence and dignity more effectively and fairly than a 2-child limit?
        Slow down population growth and keep natural selection evolution working at the same time. A woman’s first two ‘emissions’ permits are recorded at no cost, obviously, because the goal is not to reduce population but stabilise it. People would compete economically to buy baby permits only from the pool of unlived lives below the target level.
        Okay that’s probably a policy-on-the-run ThoughtBubble, so…. Questions, comments, stinging criticisms? With some rapid feedback and editing we can probably make this into official government policy before the 6′o’clock news. C’monnn, where’s your Rudd spirit?


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      • #
        Bulldust

        He often alludes to climate change in the TV episodes he presents, but he rarely goes in the whole hog. Maybe, as Bellamy suggests, he is only doing enough to assauge his political masters.

        Then again, I have no idea why he would be considered an authority on climate science any more than say Tim Flannery. Bother are focused on our furry friends rather than atmospheric sciences, as far as I know, so their personal views (unless researched) are fairly meaningless on the subject.


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    • #
      Rod Stuart

      Perhaps evolution “stalled” when Attaboy was born?


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      • #
        Greg Cavanagh

        Perhaps evolution reached it’s peak?


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      • #
        Backslider

        Evolution is only a theory. When we can see some empirical evidence then we may know something.

        Please do not confuse natural selection with evolution as many appear to do.


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        • #
          Reinder van Til

          Precisely, a short time ago I read an article on the internet stating that polymeres essential to form cellmembranes cannot be formed in salt ocean water, so the abiogenesis in an ocenan soup is out of the question. Micro evolution as we see in de breeding of dogs or cattle is proven. The rest is theory and only a theory. In my eyes a theory on very weak fundaments. It is a clever move to separate the abiogenesis from evolution, but at the same time it is an expression of a house floating in the air without a proper fundament beneath it. And we all know that a house without a fundament is falling to pieces pretty rapidly.

          The link below is a site that deals with the evolution theory vs God. It is not the usual blabbering. It is scientific. There are numbers of problems with the evolution theory which are not mentioned at all in the biology textbooks about this subject. For me it was an eye opener.

          http://www.godandscience.org/evolution/chemlife.html


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    • #
      Dave

      Quote from the great SIR Attenborough,

      Tim Flannery’s work prompted Sir David Attenborough to describe him as being “in the league of the all-time great explorers like Dr David Livingstone

      I can hardly wait for Tim Flannery’s Wikipedia page to be updated to:

      UNEMPLOYED


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    • #

      I would suggest that evolution stalled when we attempted to convert stupidity to a non fatal mental disease. The level of stupidity then built up to unsustainable levels in government, academia, the MSM, and the parasitical chattering classes nearly to the point of overload.

      THIS is the tipping point the parasitical chattering class has been ranting about. They are afraid their free ride on the gravy train is nearing its final destination. Your recent election looks to have greatly shortened the timetable. Good for you.

      Meanwhile, in the US, our stupidity level appears to be rising without limit. Sooner or later it is going to blow and make a really huge mess.


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    • #
      Angry

      David Attenborough is certainly a SURPLUS CARBON UNIT !!!!


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    • #
      Maverick

      The green socialists will be disappointed with Attenborough because he is letting the cat out of the bag on their real agenda – the de-civilisation and de-population of the world. You see they are happy with their lot in life.

      They are happy banging out propoganda on their polymer keyboards and watching their glass screens flicker away as the gold, silver, copper and lithium circuit boards, powered by coal fired power stations, crunch the binary code and make the words appear.

      They are happy flying around the world in carbon fiber, titanium and aluminum jets, safe in the knowledge that their pacemakers, vaccinations and medicines, all produced by electricity, will keep them alive so they can look down on their fellow human beings living in poverty without medicines, vaccines, clean water and sewage systems and say to them:

      I am a self appointed representative of Gaia so be a good chap and only have one child please because we want to de-populate the world, so it does not get too crowded for us healthy ones


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    • #
      AndyG55

      Maybe David Atten. whoever…. thinks that evolution stalled when it got to him.. ie didn’t think it needed to go any further.

      He can be an egotistical fella, y’know. Its his world, afterall.

      Atten whoever…. is to ecology… as
      Flannery……. is to Climate change… as
      KRudd…. is to politicians.


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    • #
      Manfred

      Yet another boistrous BBC civil servant, the benficiary of deranged largesse from the public purse.


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  • #
    Manfred

    Small edit?
    Tony Abbott said then that he “didn’t see the point of paying Professor Tim Flannery about $180,000 a year for views which he considers already public knowledge”…


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  • #
    Mike Smith

    Congratulations Australia!

    The gravy train just hit the buffers. And how sweet it is!


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    • #
      crakar24

      Slight correction Mike

      The train hit the de railers (buffers infer the gravy train has simply stopped) :-)


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      • #
        Roy Hogue

        Hitting the buffers means the train failed to stop before the end-of-track and implies considerable damage along with the possibility of injury. Given how fast that train has been rushing toward a dead end I suspect the metaphor is very apt since they made no effort to apply the breaks.


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        • #
          Joe V.

          That’s what I thought Roy, until I thought about it (that ‘hit the buffers actually means shot through the buffers with ensuing carnage). Doesn’t pay to think about it too much.
          Another way I’d heard of putting it was ‘tipped into the gulch’ (which avoids damaging the buffers and whatever’s beyond, but outcome for the passengers is much the same.


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          • #
            Greg Cavanagh

            Plenty of carnage happening withing Labor and Greens. It is their train after all. No, I think it’s perfectly apt, and it’s all comming to a screaming end.


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  • #
    pesadia

    http://bishophill.squarespace.com/

    Congratulations Australia.

    Check out the debate above which mentions Australia as th model to follow


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  • #
    Manfred

    Finally, these climate specialised, carbon dioxide emitting, carbon-based life are being compelled to move in search of greener pastures. Now, a special (unfederated) State needs to be created where they can all go and live together as a Collective. How the dispossessed manage their CV’s will doubtless create a new lexicon of meaningless euphemisms.


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  • #
    Manfred

    dang.
    …life forms…


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  • #
    Joe V.

    Now that Catastrophe has been cancelled send the the catastrophists to Mars.
    200,000 applicants already to settle on the dead Red Planet. No qualifications required.

    “The applicants have agreed to stay on the red planet for the rest of their lives – and be filmed for a reality TV programme”

    Meanwhile the rest of us can concentrate on enjoying what this planet has left to offer, while tuning in 3 nights weekly to the latest intrigue on Lansdorp’s Landing.

    It would doubtless be a great social experiment, the ultimate ‘Big Brother’. Let them try out Agenda 21 where it can do no harm to a life sustaining planet. I reckon they’d all go mad though if they survive long enough.
    But good luck to them.


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  • #
    J Martin

    Australia, leading the way.


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    Brian G Valentine

    “didn’t see the point of paying Professor Tim Flannery about $180,000 a year for views which he considers already public knowledge”…

    HA HA HA I can’t WAIT for the US Govt to get FUMIGATED for LICE


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    ColdinOz

    Phone call from the Office of the PM to Climate Commission.

    Tim answers: “Climate Commission Professor Flannery Speaking”.
    PM’s Office: “G’day Tim this is Tony, Just calling for a chat”.
    TF. “Tony, I knew you’d have to come around, what advice can I give you”.
    PM: “Actually Tim I called to give you some advice”.
    TF: “Thanks Tony, but how can you possibly help me.”
    PM: “Just want to provide you a list of other countries that issue 457 visas”.


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  • #
    Ian

    Jo

    Not on topic but you and some of those who read your blog might be interested to know that Telstra is about to trial a wireless technology that gives download speeds of 450 Mbits per second. This is nearly 5x faster than Labor’s fibre to the premises and nearly 10x faster than the Coalition’s fibre to the node. I wonder if/how this might impact on the NBN.

    http://www.afr.com/p/business/companies/telstra_trials_super_fast_mobile_DPkJYCDAhi3D4aS72RqknM


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      Safetyguy66

      WOW thats amazing and to think no one ever envisaged a day when optic fiber might not be the best option… oh no wait lots of people did its just that no one in the Government of geniuses was listening.

      Also this….

      http://chattanoogagig.com/

      So we spend 100 Billion to be slower that the Chatanooga Choo Choo… must be Labour policy youd reckon…


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      • #
        Mattb

        I note you didn’t read to the end of the article.


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        • #
          Safetyguy66

          Did you notice its a marketing page not an article ?


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          Ian

          I did read the article to the end MattB And I’m not sure what you are referring to at the “end of the article”. All that seems relevant is that speeds might be slower when the system is used for real due to high usage and that this technology may be complementary to the NBN. I guess I was being too abstruse. What I was trying to highlight is that just as Labor and the Greens seem to be unaware of or refuse to countenance data that suggests there are causes of global warming that may be more significant than human fossil fuel consumption so the use of alternative approaches to FTTH have been derided as ridiculous. Turnbull has steadfastly said that other technologies either currently under investigation or yet to be discovered that could well render the ALP NBN obsolete before it is complete or less attractive to the paying customer.


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            Ian

            Apologies that previous comment should read data that suggest not “data that suggests” as of course data is the plural form


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            Mattb

            Ian even with FTTH/FTTN we’d still need a mobile network. the testra article is also in competition in your world with the LNP FTTH approach. What IS in question is a 100% wireless approach to servicing not only the mobile phone/tablet network but also 100% of the domestic and business network use.


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      AndyG55

      I see most things being mobile based in the not too distant future.

      Even stationary desktop computers (hey, I need a BIG screen nowadays) will hook up through a mobile dongle.


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    Crook as a Chook

    Oh well it will be like Queensland soon – don’t expect to find anyone who knows anything in the Public Service (who cares you say). And whatever you do don’t get sick.

    But if you want to root it, shoot it or dig it up – no worries mate (unless your name is Clive).

    We’re on the way to becoming Aussie’s “best” public service says our Premier. Heil Hitler. We’re here to help – oh crap the lights and phones have failed again. After the outsourcing you know. But anyway the important thing is that your LNP get a feed off the contracts – even if costs 3 times as much.


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      Angry

      You can blame the alp (Australian LIARS PARTY) anna BLIGHT for destroying Queensland.
      Maybe think before posting next time.
      Nice try at rewriting history…


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      AndyG55

      Crook as a Chook.. and just about as dopey. !

      Nice intro post, bozo !!

      Sets you up as a moron from the very start.


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      CyrilH

      For all of your bullshit it is informative to note that the current Queensland government can still command about 60% of the vote. I would also advise you that I find nothing wrong with the current state of the Queensland health system and you should also realize that the Queensland Government has nothing to do with the phone service. Are you really this ignorant or are you bullshitting us?


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      Cookster

      You mean Queensland, the Australian state with a wealth of minerals to export to meet China’s boom but yet became mired in bureaucratic debt thanks to Labor’s mindless expansion of all things ‘Government’?

      Newman is just correcting the totally unproductive expansion of bureaucracy at the expense of the far more productive private sector. In the real world business needs to innovate and invest in productivity to maintain competitiveness. In the public sector there is no such mechanism – it just gets bigger and bigger.

      Newman is just fixing the rot started in Queensland under Peter Beattie and continued under Anna Bligh. The vast majority of Queensland voters just endorsed Newman’s efforts to correct this largess by either voting for the LNP or else Clive Palmer. Either way you get smaller government and a more productive business environment which is exactly what Queensland needs right now if it is to fully benefit from the Chinese miracle.


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    • #
      Dave

      RD.

      Great Headline.

      Deve-se em boa parte a Joanne Nova o recente estoiro do governo marxista australiano de Julia Gillard

      Translated:

      Due in large part to Joanne Nova the recent crash of the Marxist government Australian Julia Gillard.

      And a nice finish: “However, Julia Gillard was ejected from the command of the Labour Party”

      Thanks for sharing Fiel Inimigo.


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    Safetyguy66

    Pack your desk Tim. Oh and mate…. let the door hit you hard in the ass on the way out, youve earned it!


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      Brian G Valentine

      He has been one of the extreme of the extreme enviro-mentalists ever since he got of college. There are very few of these people around (thank Heaven) – such as Paul Ehrlich, the former Lovelock, Dave Suzuki, to name a few.

      These people came into “fashion” starting with the imbecilic Rachael Carson, it has been downhill ever since, these people aren’t all that fashionable anymore, however.


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        Mattb

        you knoiw… Carson wrote a good book that exposed a lot and was accurate in its description of the effects of rampant pesticide use. I’m not sure she has anything but a positive legacy. In fact she is EXACTLY the kind of environmentalist many on here claim environmentalists should be rather than the kind that worry about some useful gas emsissions.


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          Mark D.

          False heros are tough to let go from aren’t they Mattb?


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          Brian G Valentine

          How many people have died from malaria based on Rachel’s fabrications about the effects of DDT? She made it all up, people ate it up because of a media well-designed to play upon chemophobia.

          These shit-ass “environmentalists” had nothing left to “eliminate” excepting CO2 from the air.


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            Mattb

            Oh what a poile of crap Brian. If you want to argue DDT there are plenty of nutjob sites you can do that on. You might even meet Elvis there.


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            Mattb

            not to mention that Carson’s book never advocated for the banning of DDT for disease prevention, but was more targetted on the impacts of DDT use for insect controll in broadacre cropping.

            That’s not to say her work has never been twisted to push for other outcomes, but just focussing on the book I stand by my judgement.


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              Mattb

              “No responsible person contends that insect-borne disease should be ignored. … The list of resistant species now includes practically all of the insect groups of medical importance … Malaria programs are threatened by resistance among mosquitoes … Practical advice should be “Spray as little as you possibly can” rather than “Spray to the limit of your capacity” …, Pressure on the pest population should always be as slight as possible.”

              Sounds smart to me.


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              • #
                Eddie Sharpe

                Pressure on the pest population should always be as slight as possible.

                Wouldn’t a pest always say that ?


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                AndyG55

                “Pressure on the pest population should always be as slight as possible”

                Hey, we are trying not to be too unkind to you. !!

                But gees.. really ??????????


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              • #
                Tim

                “Spray as little as you possibly can”

                That would certainly be taken into account by a villager whose family and neighbors were dying of malaria. “Hold the phone bro – that’s too much, man. You gotta go read this book.”

                Now, there’s a Southpark idea.


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              • #
                Mattb

                why would someone dying of malaria benefit from being sprayed with DDT?


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                Brill

                As a person who uses chemicals regularly to control pests and diseases (in a nursery) I have to agree with MattB on this. Over use of chemicals eventually causes more problems than they solve. The insects/diseases develop resistance. Some are naturally resistant and they become the dominant ones. Eventually the chemical doesn’t work. That is why a range of chemicals must be used. Eg. Roundup (Glysophate) is used by almost everyone for weed control. It is gradually becoming ineffective. Also, look at the situation with antibiotics.
                I haven’t read all of Carson’s book but agree with Matt that at least parts of it have been hijacked by more rabid environmentalists.


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                Rereke Whakaaro

                So do I.

                The trouble is, that Mattie is so often at odds with the people here, that they all start braying on instinct. This time he is actually right.

                The generally unpublished story is that the US military were losing almost as many “combat hours” to insect born disease in tropical areas, as they were to enemy action. So when DDT was found to be very effective against all sorts of insects, including mosquitos, it was produced by the hundreds of tons under Defense contracts.

                Unfortunately it also deteriorates when stored for long periods. So the aging stuff was purchased cheaply by various municipalities in the States, who then sprayed it everywhere, in an attempt to rid whole towns of mosquitos. But it does kill all insects, including bees, and other insects that are useful to mankind.

                It also killed insects that provide food for birds, so the bird population started to dramatically decline. This is what Rachael Carson noticed, and what she wrote about. I see no big deal in that. She was actually writing about her research.

                The issue came when people started asking why the politicians were too dumb to think past the idea of cheap insecticide to look at the potential impacts of mass spraying programs. The answer of all politicians, when challenged, is to shoot the messenger, and so a PR campaign was mounted to try and cast Carson as a kook. I guess that worked, and is still working, if some of the responses to Matt are anything to go by.

                Of course, the environmental movement have also adopted the “idea” of Rachael Carson as a poster girl, and that doesn’t actually help her image any. The poor woman has been much maligned, over the years.

                Somewhere on YouTube, there is a TV program that explains the whole sorry story.


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          Backslider

          rather than the kind that worry about some useful gas emsissions

          Are you saying you’ve been converted??


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          CyrilH

          Mattb, You can not be that ignorant. Almost nothing in that book by Carson was true or factual in any way. Please stop talking crap you are giving me a headache.


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      Angry

      tim FLUMMERY ought to be in jail for FRAUD.
      He is nothing but a POS LIAR and TRAITOR!!


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    pat

    the axing is not showing on google’s main news page. instead, in the last hour, these are google’s headlines on the new govt:

    11 Sept: ABC: Susan McDonald: Labor MP Nick Champion says scrapping carbon tax will expose ‘disastrous’ Coalition policy
    South Australian Labor MP Nick Champion is the first in his ranks to argue the Coalition should be allowed to scrap the carbon tax and suffer the consequences…
    “If the Liberal Party want to hang themselves, we should give them as much rope as they need…
    Mr Champion says it would be foolhardy for Labor to stand up for carbon pricing at this time and they should instead give voters the opportunity to see if the Coalition’s plan works.
    “When it doesn’t, I think then that consensus carbon pricing would return,” he said…
    http://www.abc.net.au/news/2013-09-11/champion-says-labor-should-agree-to-scrap-carbon-tax/4949928

    DESPITE THE HEADLINE BELOW, IT TURNS OUT THOSE WHO “TOLD” ARE “INSIDERS”, “SOURCES” “ONE ELDER STATESMAN” (UNNAMED OF COURSE), “COALITION SOURCES”, “SOURCES CLOSE TO ABBOTT…AND “SLACKERS” IS NOWHERE TO BE FOUND IN THEIR ANONYMOUS ADVICE OR IN THE TEXT, WHICH DIDN’T PENETRATE THE BRAIN OF MULGA IN THE COMMENTS!

    11 Sept: Age: Mark Kenny: Abbott told to dump his slackers
    Tony Abbott is being urged to use the authority of a thumping election victory to drop ”also rans” from his outer ministry in order to ”blood” the next generation of cabinet ministers…
    (COMMENT BY MULGA: So this is how this new PM sees his fellow politician Coalition members,.. “SLACKERS”
    And Australia voted this man in…)
    COMMENT BY TIN: yes he’s got a lot to dump. the only capable and intelligent members left are: Turnbull …that’s it.
    http://www.theage.com.au/federal-politics/political-news/abbott-told-to-dump-his-slackers-20130910-2tiai.html

    11 Sept: AustralianFinancialReview: Let Coalition end carbon tax: Labor MP
    http://www.afr.com/p/national/let_coalition_end_carbon_tax_labor_Vq185d0JIFLlf5wNsdNtuM

    let’s face it, the MSM had begun the minute the election was over & before the new govt was even sworn in:

    Age: AAP: First boat arrives on coalition watch
    http://www.theage.com.au/national/first-boat-arrives-on-coalition-watch-20130908-2tej5.html

    even as an informal voter, i find this amateurish journalism depressing.


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      Safetyguy66

      So Nick obviously believes that when the last vote is counted to axe the fantasy tax, there will be a 5 second countdown then the world will explode into flames. I wonder what he will do when he walks outside into the sunlight (probably a rare experience) and realises nothing has changed, just like nothing changed when it was implemented with the exception of our manufacturing industry tanking and unemployment ticking up.

      I do genuinely wonder whether these people like Nick actually believe their own rhetoric or whether they just say it in a cynical attempt to cling on to the votes of the irrecoverably stupid ?


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      Tim

      “To tell deliberate lies while genuinely believing in them, to forget any fact that has become inconvenient, and then, when it becomes necessary again, to draw it back from oblivion for just so long as it is needed, to deny the existence of objective reality and all the while to take account of the reality which one denies all this is indispensably necessary.”

      George Orwell in the book 1984


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    Robert of Ottawa

    Be very watchful. Bureaucracies have a knack of surviving.

    Make sure that when a department is closed, all the bureaucrats are laid off, not just transferred, along with their budget, to another bureaucracy.

    I look forward to the retirement of the Flim Flam Mann.


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    Robert of Ottawa

    Oh, BTW, congratulations Australia! Jolly well done!


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    John B

    Yea I’ve got to hand it to you Aussies it looks like you got your act together good and proper Abbott looks like a good un. Now there’s just one thing I’d like to know, can we in the UK borrow him for a while to sort out the mess here. In return we could send you that Ashes thingy as payment.


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    A C

    They need to start on the CSIRO and turn it back into an “Industrial Research Organisation” like it was meant to be.

    And then there3 is BOM …


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    pat

    re Walsh’s sub-heading: surely he realises the “impact” will depend on what kind of “climate change” we actually get, but Walsh doesn’t see it that way cos “climate change” to the ridiculous MSM is CAGW:

    9 Sept: Time Mag Ecocentric: Bryan Walsh: A Silent Hurricane Season Adds Fuel to a Debate Over Global Warming
    We’ve passed the midpoint of the Atlantic hurricane season, and there’s been not a storm to see. What does a hurricane drought tell us about how climate change will impact tropical cyclones?…
    What happened?…
    http://science.time.com/2013/09/09/a-silent-hurricane-season-ignites-a-debate-over-global-warming/

    to find out “what happened”, Walsh looks to Revkin, MotherJones & Kerry Emanuel!


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      Safetyguy66

      Ah yes but the lack of hurricanes is just regression to mean Pat, havnt you heard ?


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        Angry

        Have a look at the latest CRAP from the global warming NUTJOBS !!

        Leftards now blame Climate Change for the War in Syria:-

        http://www.andysrant.com/2013/09/leftards-now-blame-climate-change-for-the-war-in-syria.html

        WTF !!


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          Dave

          And their rants are becoming more frequent:

          1. “Experts have cited climate change as the cause behind the shift in bushfire seasons in NSW.”

          2. “Experts at the CSIRO, the Bureau of Meteorology and elsewhere have found fire seasons are starting earlier and ending later. Climate change is probably behind the shift and if the trends continue as modelled, extreme fire weather will become more common.”

          Next week it’ll be:

          Shark attacks increase due to climate change.
          Raspberry flower too early for the bees due to climate change.

          And heaps of other alarmist garbage. Everyone has just turned off this junk.

          The CAGW is a political scam, but masquerading as a scientific scam and fraud. Get as much money off the everyone in the western world for the Green Vandals to live the life of Reilly.

          It involves the governments, banks, media and all the other gravy train swill eating pigs.


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            Angry

            Have a read of this article for a laugh !!

            A complete list of things caused by global warming:-

            http://www.numberwatch.co.uk/warmlist.htm


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          • #
            Grant (NZ)

            Those things quite likely are consequences of “climate change” or the weather this season (which is different to every other preceding season). But that climate change is not predominantly man-made (in fact it is insignificantly man-made).

            We have to be careful. Yes – there is climate change and it could have specific consequences. It is just more natural climate change than man-made.

            On the subject of this thread – maybe the Aussie Government could lead the world in having a “Climate Adaptation Unit” – adaptation to natural climate changes.


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              Safetyguy66

              Its a shame the climate only started changing in the last 20 years or so. If it would have been changing for a ling time we might have noticed and started adapting sooner. Its really puzzles me that it stayed so constant for millions of years then suddenly stated changing about the time multimedia and internet grew in popularity. I guess it must be CO2 after all….

              That ones for you Matt…


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      Tim

      Sydney has just had an early bushfire event. Watch for the fear-monger media to translate this as CAGW.


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    pat

    leading Arctic news today:

    10 Sept: WinnipegFreePress: U of M researcher aboard Amundsen dies in Arctic crash
    University of Manitoba research scientist Klaus Hochheim and two Canadian Coast Guard officers died Monday night when their helicopter crashed into the Arctic Ocean during a routine flight from the research icebreaker Amundsen…
    The helicopter is believed to be 420 metres below the surface.
    Hochheim was a climatologist and research associate with the Centre for Earth Observation Science at U of M, which announced a $15-million Arctic research centre last March if which the Amundsen was a key part.
    The U of M’s renowned Arctic research program has used the Amundsen as its base for several years…
    Harper said the three died in the McClure Strait, near Banks Island in the Northwest Territories, during a routine ice reconnaissance mission to check ice conditions…
    http://www.winnipegfreepress.com/breakingnews/Fatal-crash-in-Arctic-involving-Amundsen-223141291.html


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    A C

    As I said above the first thing that the Abbott Government should move on is the CSIRO. In particular they could start on Dr Stafford-Smith who appears to believe that the CSIRO is a good platform to argue for one world government.

    ‘When the conference ended, Dr Stafford-Smith co-drafted with a Dr Lidia Brito the conference’s “Declaration”. ….. The key tract from the Smith/Brito manifesto is:
    “Fundamental reorientation and restructuring of national and international institutions is required to overcome barriers to progress and to move to effective Earth-system governance” ‘

    I’m not too sure where this agenda fits with the CSIRO’s general mandate. Read more here on Quadrant


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    WheresWallace

    Tough times ahead for Tony and his Mad-date promises.

    Repealing the carbon tax is not easy

    The government cannot simply abolish the Climate Change Authority, preventing it from delivering recommendations – it is established by an Act of Parliament that would be subject to similar repeal conditions as the carbon price.

    Then there are international obligations. The Coalition is committed to ratifying the next phase of the Kyoto Protocol, which includes our international commitment to limit warming to two degrees and cut pollution by 5 to 25 per cent by 2020.

    Mr Abbott or his representatives would have to attend the international climate negotiations and tell other world leaders Australia will be the first country to expect others to take stronger action in our national interest, while we do less. Much less.

    Meanwhile climate change marches on. During the election campaign the Bureau of Meteorology confirmed that the last 12-month period was Australia’s warmest on record.


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    • #

      Ah, Wallace, isn’t it cool how you guys have no idea whatsoever.

      Kyoto had a sunset clause in it, so, at Copenhagen, and then at Cancun, and then at Durban, and then at Doha, they desperately tried to find a replacement.

      The trouble was the original Kyoto Protocol was worded in a way that virtually assured a replacement could not be found.

      The ones who really wanted it changed were the 24 Annex 2 Countries from the 41 Annex 1 Countries, you know, those 24 Countries that actually have to foot the whole bill for everyone, and yes, Australia is included in that list of 24 Countries, and incidentally, the way they were to actually pay for all this, well, those 24 Countries had to introduce a CO2 pricing mechanism, or ETS or similar to raise the money, and forward most of that to the UN for distribution among those other still Developing Countries, minus the UN’s cut of course.

      The remaining 140+ Countries (China and India in that lot) need do nothing other than report their emissions. Full stop.

      Now can you see why Copenhagen stalled so catastrophically, and then the other COP’s as well.

      They came out with feel good statements in an attempt to hide their absolute complete and utter failure.

      But hey it doesn’t matter anyway. Because, they just changed the rules.

      Kyoto called for a reduction in CO2 levels to a level 5% lower than they were in 1990.

      Now, no one on Planet Earth has even come close to that, so dear old Kevvie and Co just changed it to a 5% reduction on current levels by 2020.
      Again something that will not be achieved either, so while they run around chicken littling screaming Kyoto, Kyoto, Kyoto, they are just ignoring it anyway.

      It’s a complete and utter farce.

      They can extend Kyoto all they like. They will never find a replacement for it, and anything else will just be a watered down feel good bunch of weasel words, that no one will abide by anyway, no matter how many camera bulbs flash as they sign up to it.

      What you really need to do dear old Wallace is actually find out before making your statements your puppet masters direct you to make.

      Use your brain like most of here do. Find out the real facts, the real truth, not your political leaning version of the truth they tell you.

      Tony.


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      Safetyguy66

      “our international commitment to limit warming to two degrees”

      Thanks, I was in a bad mood today and I needed a good laugh.

      Your a funny guy.


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      Geoff Sherrington

      WheresWallace
      “Bureau of Meteorology confirmed that the last 12-month period was Australia’s warmest on record.”
      Kenskingdom has used a whip around to dig data and the statement is not true if you use UAH data.


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        Andrew McRae

        I agree with Sherro and here is Ken’s post about it.

        Stepping back from the wide brown land and looking globally it would seem that the years of FY2009/10, 2007, and 2005 were all warmer 12-month averages than the 12 months preceding today, and that’s by BOTH the UAH and HadSST3 measures.

        It once again shows that the CAGW believers have unshakeable faith in the advent of unprecedented End Times phenomena, even when it’s all happened before naturally. (Scottish limpets also concur.)


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          Andrew McRae

          Sorry the limpet study link was missing the protocol prefix. I blame Mozilla who went full-stupid many versions ago and made the default behaviour for Firefox to actually remove the protocol prefix from the URL bar. That means when you copy the address from the address bar… you get a piece of text that is not actually a valid URL. Thanks for nothing Mozilla you nitwits. Firefox was fine until they started dumbing it down. But Firefox users can fight the dumb by changing a config setting.
          Just type about:config in the address bar and click through the “no user-serviceable parts inside” type warning.
          Find the setting “browser.urlbar.trimURLs” and double click it to set it to false.
          Now correct operation of the URL bar is restored, just as it was in all old versions of Firefox until about FF7.
          Only reason this wasn’t done in my browser already was because this is a new computer and hadn’t changed it yet. Also, using “copy link location” works properly.


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      Angry

      wallace (and grommet) your side lost.
      Australians will not tolerate COMMUNISM.
      GET OVER IT AND MOVE TO NORTH KOREA !!


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        Brian G Valentine

        North Korea wouldn’t want these people. North Korea simply spends all their money and effort on useless weapons that might please Dear Leader.

        The enviro-communist would fault Dear Leader for not reducing carbon emissions enough. Dear Leader would have these people jailed or shot.


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        Rereke Whakaaro

        Excuse me, the proper name is, “The Democratic Peoples Republic of Korea”. To citizens of the DPRK, “North Korea” refers to the northern part of “The Peoples Republic of Korea”, that is within shellfire range.

        We wouldn’t want Wallace going to the wrong place, now would we?


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          Backslider

          We wouldn’t want Wallace going to the wrong place, now would we?

          Shellfire range?….. I dunno, North Korea sounds ok to me for LostHisWilly.


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          Brian G Valentine

          There must be some country for these stink bags – or let them create their own. They can make every day Earth Day, and everybody can live the lifestyle of Australopithecus afarensis.


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    crakar24

    Sorry OT already but August came in at +0.16C, the pause continues.


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      Brian G Valentine

      There has to be some “global warming” to get a “pause,” doesn’t there?


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      Ian H

      Watch to see if the pause survives the next El Nino. That is the acid test.


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        AndyG55

        Hey, the so called “pause” was triggered by the last major El nino.

        An El Nino is a release of energy.. ie a COOLING mechanism !!


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          Ian H

          Let’s not split hairs. The radiator at the back of my fridge heats up when the motor runs. It is releasing energy. It is a cooling mechanism. Just a different way of describing the same thing. Lets not have a pointless semantic argument.

          El Ninos cause a measurable uptick in the observed surface temperature. The pause started after the big 1998 El Nino and since then time we have seen no warming and if anything a slight decline. But we haven’t had any big El Ninos since then either. You could argue (not unreasonably) that comparing El Nino years to ordinary years is not a real test. The warmists are betting the farm on the idea that “missing heat” is building up in the deep ocean waiting to be released by the next big El Nino. But suppose that the next big El Nino were to arrive and temperatures were to peak below the level of 1998. If that happened they would be revealed to be holding a busted flush and CAGW would be dead. Cue the Monty Python Dead Parrot skit.

          Of course if the world really has entered a cooling phase we may not see another big El Nino for quite … some … time.


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    Bill Illis

    Please encourage the government to come clean on everything that really happened. The public needs to know how the green agenda just wasted millions/billions. They must not be able to forget come the next election.

    Putting Treasury in charge of programs just means they are set for an orderly wind-down.


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      Brian G Valentine

      I would agree with you, except a lot of time and energy can be wasted on anger/grudge/retribution.

      As with any other injury, the best thing to to is to pick and move on.


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      • #
        Brian G Valentine

        pick up


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        MemoryVault

        BUGGER THAT!!

        These people, Flannery, Karoly, Chubb, Braganza, Lewandowsky, Cook and all the rest of them, ALL with their greedy, fat litle mouths firmly planted on the public teat, have all played their part, both here in Australia, and internationally, in the suffering and deaths of millions of people around the world.

        And since the situation now must irreversibly get a whole lot worse before it starts to get better, these murderous scum are already responsible for tens of millions of deaths inevitably to come, with millions more sentenced to miserable, short lives of poverty and suffering.

        It is said that forgiveness is divine.
        That’s okay – I’m not God.
        I’m human. I want justice, and revenge, and I want it by the bucket load.

        I want to see these evil bastards stand trial for crimes against humanity.
        I want to see them stripped of all professional qualifications, accolades, and material possessions.
        I want to see them sentenced to lifetime hard labour.
        I want to see them spend their weekends pilloried in some public place, surrounded by huge billboards featuring pictures of those alive and suffering, and those dead, because of these evil bastards’ actions.
        I want to see children encouraged to read and learn from the signs, and then pelt these monsters with rotten fruit.

        .
        That’s just off the top of my head.
        Give me a while and I’ll come up with something really fitting their crimes.
        But the above will do for starters.


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          Angry

          Time to bring out “Madame Guillotine” to deal with these communist traitors.
          GOD FORGIVES, I DON’T !!


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          Worth noting that there are (at least) two minor parties in the upcoming German federal election (Sep. 22nd) whose policies include making the waste of public funds a crime. i.e. If you waste the money of taxpayers, you potentially spend time in prison to consider your career options, because they won’t be in a position entrusted with public funds.

          The same parties have in common the elimination of the Euro in order to allow the economies of countries to find their own level and to stop Germany bleeding funds in order to “rescue” banks in other countries.


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        Tim

        How’s about we pick up on those treason trials. Forgive the billions robbed from the taxpayer? I don’t think so.


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      Safetyguy66

      There should be a Royal Commission…. if it wasn’t likely to just be more money down the tubes..


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    MemoryVault

    Totally O/T,

    But I notice Michel The Ridiculous is still back playing with himself on a three week old thread.
    A bit sad, really, like the kid all alone in the sandpit over in the corner of the playground, that nobody else wants to play with.

    Still, at least he’s not here, annoying the grown-ups.


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      Rereke Whakaaro

      We aught to go over an bomb his thread … nah, on second thoughts …


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      Eddie Sharpe

      It’s their way of having the last word. Carryingvon after the fat lady has sung ( and nobody’s interested anymore).
      (Like the Troll on the Topher thread).


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      Eddie Sharpe

      To be fair to Michael I see there are a few hardy souls still humouring him, way back there on the “Global Warming death spiral begins …” thread ( I had to use Google to find it). Good on yer for still babysitting him there.


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      Say, I’m having a thought on why Salvador Dali Michael the Surrealist is just commenting at that one thread, and not on any others.

      I can’t imagine his not wanting to bomb every Thread posted here with his inane drivel.

      Maybe he’s just umm, err, been, how shall I put this, confined to just that one Thread, where he can post his Comments, and those who do wish to to reply can go and take him on there without clogging up all the more recent Threads.

      Just sayin!

      Perhaps if we all totally ignored him. I tried to, but interjected once. That was once too many for me. I should have known better. He really does have no idea.

      Tony.


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      Backslider

      I wore out two mice scrolling up to where I could find a “reply” link…….


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        Rereke Whakaaro

        The numbering on that thread is now so confusing, if you are not careful, you can end up arguing with yourself.

        Hmm, perhaps that is why Michael is still there – trying to get the last word?


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          Backslider

          perhaps that is why Michael is still there – trying to get the last word?

          That is exactly why Michael is there.


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          Joe V.

          The numbering isn’t up to it. Some comment numbering has been seen to run backwards and there are at least 7 different comments numbered 9.1.3.1.1 for instance. Whereas many of Michaels comments , which are essentially all repetitive, appear with different numbers. TH4 nesting which saves the thread from total chaos.


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          Yonniestone

          If Michael got into a fight with himself, he’d probably win. :)


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            MemoryVault

            Nah.
            Michael getting into a fight with himself would be like programming a home computer to calculate the square root of two,
            to (n + 1) decimal places.


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          Rereke Whakaaro says

          The numbering on that thread is now so confusing, if you are not careful, you can end up arguing with yourself.

          He actually does argue against himself in the comments on my blog in two ways. Both around the definition of “skeptic”.

          First, Michael considers himself, (like John Cook) a true skeptic.

          A true skeptic is somebody who looks at all the data, science and observations and makes rational and logical determinations on that…

          He still persists on using this definition of “skeptic” after I point him to the dictionary, where multiple definitions disagree with him. It is the case of a word meaning being “false by definition”.

          The second is when he argued against a medieval warm period, I reproduced a graph from CO2science.org that looks at all the available temperature proxies that cover both the MWP and the present period, giving a estimate of the quantitative temperature difference between the MWP and present period. I got accused of cherry picking. My conclusion

          Cherry-picking is being selective, to confirm one’s prejudices. To use all the available data is (according to Michael) the sign of a true skeptic. So (a) Michael is right, therefore wrong (b) Michael is wrong, therefore right (c) Michael contradicts himself. I cannot think of any other logical category.

          Superficially, I may have wasted my time “Answering Michael the Realist“. But to this properly, I looked at some fundamentals that climate science ignores. Things like the differences between
          - facts and value judgements
          - trivial and non-trivial
          - open and closed questions
          - strong evidence and hearsay
          - necessary and sufficient conditions


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            Joe V.

            A true skeptic is somebody who looks at all the data, science and observations and makes rational and logical determinations on that…

            Limited only by their ability to rationalise logically as they see it , before being swayed by all their preconceptions in the end to go with their best gut feel.

            ‘Determinations’ is an interesting word which sounds so much more like decrees that it does any sort of deductive reasoning.

            Rational analysts deduce while those of more authoritarian tendency like to determine.


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    pat

    hopefully true. opposition from across the political spectrum worked, it seems:

    11 Sept: NYT: Obama to Weigh Russia Plan to Control Syria Arms
    President Obama, facing an almost certain defeat in obtaining Congressional support for a military strike against Syria, prepared to tell the nation on Tuesday night that he would give serious consideration to a proposal by Russia that international monitors take over and destroy Syria’s arsenal of chemical weapons…
    But at the end of two days of fast-moving developments, Congressional leaders said any vote on a strike had been pushed off as the focus shifted to diplomacy…
    http://www.nytimes.com/2013/09/11/world/middleeast/syrian-chemical-arsenal.html?pagewanted=all


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    handjive

    It seems not a moment too soon the killing of green bureaucracy for Australia, if Europe is any example :
    .
    “We face a systemic industrial massacre,” said Antonio Tajani, the European industry commissioner.
    Mr Tajani warned that Europe’s quixotic dash for renewables was pushing electricity costs to untenable levels, leaving Europe struggling to compete as America’s shale revolution cuts US natural gas prices by 80pc.

    “The loss of competitiveness is frightening,” said Paulo Savona, head of Italy’s Fondo Interbancario. “When people choose whether to invest in Europe or the US, what they think about most is the cost of energy.”

    Brussels fears European ‘industrial massacre’ sparked by energy costs

    EU climate model was held as a green example. It is a failure.
    It seems Australia & Abbott will lead the world in common sense.
    Voting to wipe the green power out of the senate by denying them preferences was a resounding success.
    More work to do, but, well done.


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      It ain’t exactly rocket science is it? Make energy more expensive and industry gets screwed. We all knew that, why didn’t the EUdiots?


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      Tim

      Abbott will indeed need to lead the world in common sense. Can he overcome the obstacles?

      Renumerated mercenary trolls, public servants and ‘scientific experts’, misguided and ill-informed useful idiots, dumb and dumber media hacks, hugely rich ‘caring’ global propaganda organisations “(that don’t pay tax), an uninformed and naïve public and then the elite global movers and shakers that control the above puppets.

      Quite a job.


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    crosspatch

    So far all we have is “are drawing up plans”, which is a something of a distance from “starts axing”. We’ll see how it goes.


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    RoHa

    “didn’t see the point of paying Professor Tim Flannery about $180,000 a year for views which he considers already public knowledge”…

    Can I have it, then? Please? I promise I will spend most of it in Australia.


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    Pete of Perth

    Handjive,

    Maybe this was the USA’s plan all along – use the carbongeddon con to trash its manufacturing competitors. Now it only has to be concerned with China.

    Conspiracies R Us


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    Colin Henderson

    I have little sympathy for those that were “just following orders” losing their jobs. At their hands many suffered the same loss.


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      Brian G Valentine

      Most of these people are well-connected and they won’t suffer a bit. I am sad to say, they will be picked up at their same rate at some scummy (unnamed, well known) Universities or Activist Groups in Australia.

      My inside sources tell me, that Activist Groups here in the US have plans to place these Communists in Australia in positions to somehow “reverse” the consequences of the Election by lobbying the Senate.

      I would provide details but cannot spread rumour based on speculations. Suffice to say, the Communist Menace here in the US is disappointed with the Australian elections and does not plan to sit idly by


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      Safetyguy66

      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Superior_orders

      Didn’t help the last lot of maggots that tried it.


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    Robber

    Jo, don’t let up, there is still much to be done. in the Liberal party ranks there is one Greg Hunt, likely to be Minister for the Environment or whatever they decide to call the new department, and on his website it says:
    Climate Action, Environment & Heritage
    The Coalition’s Climate Action, Environment and Heritage policy rests on four pillars:
    Direct Action on Climate, including the Emissions Reduction Fund, One Million Solar Roofs and the planting of 20 million trees
    Clean Land Plan, including the establishment of a Green Army, Landcare Recovery and a One-Stop-Shop for environmental approvals
    Clean Water, including the Murray-Darling Plan, a Plan for Water Security and the Reef 2050 vision
    A National Heritage Plan encompassing community heritage and national heritage icons.

    Greg Hunt is a climate change believer, so he will continue to spend government (our) money on direct action on climate to “stop the warming” and continue to push up electricity prices because of the 20% renewable energy target – one million solar roofs subsidized by the non-solar roof electricity payers.

    But do you like the point above about planting 20 million trees? That will probably take another army of bureaucrats to administer …… or, we all plant a tree, save the planet, and the policy has been implemented!!


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      MemoryVault

      … or, we all plant a tree, save the planet, and the policy has been implemented!!

      When I was in Primary School in the early 60′s, each year we had Arbor Day. On that day each year all the grades 5, 6 and 7′s – about 600 of us, were bussed off somewhere, split into teams of three, armed with an army-style folding spade, a bucket of water, and a seedling tree.

      We all planted our trees, then had a bit of a party with sandwiches and cakes supplied by our mothers, supplemented with glasses of lemonade. Then we all bussed back to school.

      As far as I know something similar happened each year at every state school in WA, and it had been going on long before I came on the scene. It was still happening after I left high school. I assume much the same happened in other states.

      I have no idea how many millions of trees were planted this way, but I do know it was accomplished without a “Green Army” of some 10,000 work-for-the-dole conscripts, directed by some vast Federal bureaucracy in Canberra.


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      Angry

      greg hunt must go asap !

      He is nothing but a green communist pretending to be a liberal party member.


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    Ernest Bush

    I am one American who wants to congratulate Australia on at least beginning to undo the terrible economic damage done by the CAGW alarmist religion. I live in Arizona where they are trying to cover the entire state in solar panels. They will never produce enough electricity to pay for themselves. In California its even worse with the wind mills. Meanwhile, our Environmental Protection Agency has declared war on coal using government regulations to kill tens of thousands of jobs while closing coal fired electric generation plants. This should all sound familiar to you all.


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      Ernest, thanks for commenting.

      As most of you know, I’ve been Posting for more than five and a half years now on the failure of renewable power to deliver power on any scale at all.

      One of those plants I have been following is indeed in Arizona, The Abengoa Solana plant at Gila Bend near Phoenix in Arizona.

      It’s a concentrating Solar Plant, and will have a Nameplate Capacity of 280MW, utilising parabolic dish technology with 6 hours of thermal storage.

      Pretty big eh! In fact, it is hoped to supply all the power needs for 70,000 homes, and again, note those weasel words.

      What this means is that it will supply 844GWH of power each year, theoretically, and as is the case with all these plants, they never achieve that theoretical maximum, which equates to a Capacity Factor of 34.4%.

      So, that effectively means that, even while delivering some of its power for most of the day, and less for the 6 hours storage, this plant delivers its equivalent maximum rated power for barely 8 hours a day, so with that storage operating in Summer, meaning it theoretically may be able to deliver power for around 15 hours tops, then you can see straight away that In Winter there is very little power being delivered.

      Now, why I even mention all this at all is because it was one of the first solar plants I started to follow back in mid 2008, when the scheduled opening was slated for 2011, and it’s 2013 now, and the plant is still not in full operation. It was first proposed in 2003, so ten years and still not at the power delivery stage.

      It’s original proposed cost was $625 Million, and it’s now at $1.45 Billion+.

      For a piddling amount of power on a sporadic time basis, and keep in mind Bayswater will deliver the same power delivered from this plant (theoretically) in a year, and Bayswater will deliver that in 13 days with all 4 units in operation.

      They can spend billions to open up these solar plants, and in Arizona, there are plans for 10 more solar plants. (two power towers, 4 Parabolic troughs, and 4 Solar PV)

      Amazing what you can achieve with other people’s money. What you don’t get is actual electrical power delivered 24/7/365.

      Tony.


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        Graeme No.3

        Tony:

        If it does achieve a Capacity Factor of 34.4% it will be setting a record for all solar plants, which is currently 32.8% set on a very sunny day when the air temperature was minus 8℃.

        You didn’t mention the problem of dust, which is pretty easy to find in a desert. It can be washed off with water, which is less easy to find in a desert. If it isn’t washed off, the output drops drastically.

        If it did produce the amount you state, that would cost $A168 per MWh for a 6 year payback. Compare that with coal around $A32-33 per MWh in the USA. So Arizona has the choice of cheap, reliable electricity or expensive and intermittent power, but with a smug glow of self satisfaction.


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          Rereke Whakaaro

          It is not only just the dust, Graeme. It is the combination of dust and wind that is a killer.

          I don’t think the glass on a solar panel would stand up to many dust storms. I have seen what a dust storm can do to a Land Rover windscreen.

          I have no idea what the impact would be on the efficiency of a solar panel. But I would bet that it wouldn’t improve it.


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    David

    “Looks like DIICCSRTE is gone forever…” OMG! As the former PM, ex-PM and PM would tweat.

    What about poor old tertiary education? It was bolted on to this monstrosity earlier this year (year six by my revolutionary calendar, in the month of Ruddidor, just after Thermidor and before Gillardor, which was changed to Ruddtember just before the Dark Change and the start of the “Terror”.) Focus…so VET, TAFEs and universities are parentless and homeless. Can we start an “adopt a uni program”?


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  • #

    Senate count continues.

    Tasmania PUP minus one, Coalition plus one.

    See details at this comment.

    Tony.


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    PM should have kept Flannery on as court jester.


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    Bulldust

    I had no idea Shorten was so unpopular, even with the ABC luvvies:

    http://www.abc.net.au/news/thedrum/polls/

    83% Albanese for leader versus only 17% Shorten at 1190 votes so far.


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    pat

    an almost illiterate pro-Labor piece. “calls” in the headline is merely some opinions from a senior lecturer in telecommunications and multimedia engineering at the University of Adelaide, Matthew Sorell:

    11 Sept: ABC Bush Telegraph: Calls for rethink over Coalitions NBN policy
    Presented by Cameron Wilson
    Labor’s National broadband network was a popular policy in the bush not enough to switch people’s votes…
    However, senior lecturer in telecommunications and multimedia engineering at the University of Adelaide, Matthew Sorell says there is little difference between both policies when it comes to the seven per cent in rural and remote areas.
    “We’re still looking at satellite and fixed wireless communications”.
    But Mr Sorell thinks the new government’s policy is not a long term solution and will only meet Australia’s internet needs up until about 2025…
    But Matthew Sorell thinks fibre to the home is still a possibility under a Coalition Government.
    “There’s going to be a review of the NBN Co (and) if that is done as an honest audit review and not a political witch-hunt then it will conclude …that what is being currently done, which is optical fibre to the majority of urban premises, is in fact the correct approach to this technology problem.”…
    http://www.abc.net.au/radionational/programs/bushtelegraph/regional-nbn/4949114


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    Ross

    I saw your Green MP Mr Brandt on Sky PM Agenda a few hours ago trying to tell the interviewer
    ( David Spears ?) that the Greens have for along time believed that preference deals should not be done ( in relation to the Senate ) and voters should all vote according to their own wishes.

    Firstly, even as Kiwi, I know the Greens did a deal with Palmer.
    Secondly, Spears did not even “bat an eye lid” and pull him up on it.
    Thirdly, obviously Australian Greens BS as much as NZ Greens.


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    Rod Stuart

    Seriously O/T, but I was just reading about Graphene and how the US patent office is overrun with patent applications for its great potential.
    You chuckle when you put this in perspective with the idea of “evil carbon pollution”.

    “Graphene itself is a honeycomb carbon structure, an atom thick — essentially a two-dimensional substance. It has extraordinary properties of strength, pliability, and conductivity. Researchers at Columbia University estimated that it would take the weight of an elephant applied to a point the size of a pencil tip to puncture a graphene sheet just 10 microns thick.”


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      MemoryVault

      .
      There’s an American crowd that has started to make reverse osmosis water purification units with graphene screens, that are a fraction of the cost of existing processes both to build, and run.

      .
      I’ll rephrase that:

      All our existing multi-billion dollar, mothballed, white elephant desalination plants, built by Labor State governments at the behest of mad Greenies and “climate scientists” like Flim Flammery, are now effectively obsolete.


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        AndyG55

        MV, All these plants have replaceable filters, they are basically a standard design.

        You can bet they will be able to design graphene filters that will work in the current set-ups.


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        AndyG55

        ps. Its the required pressure difference that drives current osmotic filters, that is where the major running cost is. If filters can be designed that don’t require the big pressure differences, operating costs can be significantly reduced.


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          MemoryVault

          Pressure – that’s the whole issue, Andy.

          Yes, you could retrofit graphene screens, but you’ve still got a bloody humungous, expensive to run pump ramming water through massive piping systems into high pressure units, all of which are now redundant.

          The screens also have to be backwashed regularly. This usually works on a screen rotating drive. The current screens are thick and heavy in their own right. They also absorb tonnes of water (think big dishwashing sponge). So they are very heavy and require heavy frames and major machinery to hold, lift and move them.

          The new graphene screens are super light, and don’t hold water. They don’t require any of that heavy duty equipment.
          So, while retro-fitting is technically feasible, it’s not commercially viable for large scale plants like the ones we have.


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        Rod Stuart

        That American crowd is a little outfit called Lockheed Martin.
        Graphene is in its infancy so far a production is concerned and presently is frightfully expensive to produce. However, It usually only takes the Chinese a few months to overcome little obstacles like that.


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          MemoryVault

          .
          No, it wasn’t Lockheed Martin, Stuart, though I have no doubt that they are at the forefront of the research. No, this was a relatively small company who were already gearing up to supply replacement screens for retro-fitting to smaller, portable osmosis units where it was commercially viable to do so. Currently available osmotic membranes aren’t exactly cheap, so graphene cost isn’t as big a factor as it might be in other areas.

          I agree entirely with your comment about the Chinese, and I wonder if many Australians realise the implications. Once the production of cheap graphene is a reality (which is inevitable), it will be only a matter of time before it is incorporated into some kind of rigid, moldable, heat-resistant polymer.

          At that point the current Iron Age joins the Bronze Age as a historical anecdote, and Australia’s iron ore and coking coal mining industries join the eight track stereo cartridge, as quaint antiquities from “the good ol’ days”.


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        Mattb

        “All our existing multi-billion dollar, mothballed, white elephant desalination plants, built by Labor State governments at the behest of mad Greenies and “climate scientists” like Flim Flammery, are now effectively obsolete.”

        For starters the one in WA is quite useful.
        ii) what do you suppose folks do in the interim while applications of graphene are still a “what if”
        iii) Why target desal plants… this graphene stuff has the potential to revolutionise many things… are all our endeavours to date in tose things a waste of time?
        iv) if they are mothballed then why would you build a graphenene anyway?


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          MemoryVault

          For starters the one in WA is quite useful.

          In its own unique way, the Perth desalination plant is, comparatively speaking, the biggest, most expensive white elephant of them all. I’ll come back to that at the end of this post. Meanwhile, since you’re a Councillor, why don’t you phone the management of the Kwinana Power Station and ask if you can bring a busload of schoolkids down to witness the wonder of your desalination plant, in all its glory.

          what do you suppose folks do in the interim while applications of graphene are still a “what if”

          Well, in the case in actual question, they should have been building dams, far less expensive, far more efficient dams – except you Greenies don’t approve of them, either.

          Why target desal plants… this graphene stuff has the potential to revolutionise many things… are all our endeavours to date in tose things a waste of time?

          I didn’t “target” desal plants. I promoted them as an example of one of the few existing application of graphene technology.

          if they are mothballed then why would you build a graphenene anyway?

          “I” wouldn’t. Only stupid, dull-witted Greenies with no concept of “unintended consequences” would have ever promoted desalination plants over dams, for as long as there were geological locations available, suitable for dams.

          .
          Back to Perth. Of all the mainstream desal plants in OZ, the one at Kwinana is the most stupid.

          Perth is “blessed??” with a very large dam down Collie way – Wellington Dam. Here are some pictures. Due to a combination of original planning mistakes, and subsequent land management issues, the water in Wellington Dam is too salty to drink. Which pretty-much makes Wellington Dam the world’s largest and most expensive man-made picnic area.

          The whole idea of a desal plant for Perth grew out of the Wellington Dam situation. The original plan was for a desal plant at the base of Wellington Dam that relied on the head pressure created by the dam itself, rather than being provided by the brute efforts of very large, power-hungry, electrically-driven pumps, as now allegedly happens at Kwinana.

          There was even sufficient head pressure to put a small hydro-electric turbine between the dam outlet and the desal plant, to provide electricity for all the other equipment and other needs. This was the plan put forward by the engineers and the economists of the day. This solution was a tenth of the construction cost of what was subsequently done at Kwinana, and output from this plant would have greatly exceeded that of what Sandgropers have now, even using the totally micked up figures available.

          What happened, given that this was the preferred solution of the scientists, the engineers, and the economists? Politics happened, MattB. And since you are the only politician here, perhaps you’d care to explain it.


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            Mattb

            if they are mothballed then they are not needed so why would you have bult a dam for cater for the same non-existant demand? You’re not making any sense MV.

            “one of the few existing application of graphene technology” existing or possible?


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            Mattb

            wellington dam is too small.


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            Rereke Whakaaro

            … a very large dam down Collie way – Wellington Dam. Here are some pictures.

            Hmm, nice puddle.


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              Mattb

              Actually it is pretty big by WA’s standards. My “not big enough” comments above are in the context that a lot is allocated for agriculture (although it is a bit salty for that even).

              It’s a source.. it is true… but MV’s rant is typical grumbling rather than genuine critique. Desal plants are not eco-friendly, wellington dam is already there so it is not like there would be greenie opposition to using the water, so this idea than anything other than simple economics is preventing the option is bunkum (ok and maybe some local agricultural concerns).


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            MV, I’ve always wondered why it was better to desalinate sea water at 35000 ppm than dam water at say 2000. So which bunch if idiots are responsible for this Charlie Foxtrot?


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            ianl8888

            All of Mattb’s unconnected dot replies to your post show the true whinging mentality of a scientifically/engineeringly/mathematically illiterate politician caught wanking in public

            Here, I’m with you, mv. Crucify them with their own rank illiteracy; never let up. Mattb has never fronted up to any of TonyOz’s direct and accurately simple posts

            Btw, “unintended consequences” is a copout. The accurate description is “predicted but irresponsibly ignored consequences”. But Mattb is too easy an example – the MSM gatekeepers are the real enemy of properly informed, rational thought


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    Yonniestone

    Bugger the axe break out the chainsaw!


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      Eliza Doodle

      The chainsaws are still busy destroying what’s left of the boreal forests to fuel Drax formerly coal turbines.


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        Joe V.

        The rest of the world is now looking to Australia for a lead, that will literally encourage politicians to pick up the axe.


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        Graeme No.3

        I have wondered how the Greenies ever justify an increase of 20% in CO2 emissions using wood chip rather than coal. As at Drax power station. And for this to attract roughly a billion pounds subsidy over the next few years.

        You can’t use the old “but this is good CO2 whereas bad CO2 comes out of coal” line of BS by claiming the CO2 from wood chip will be absorbed by trees; not unless you plan to plant enough trees every year to absorb that 20% extra CO2. And in that case, why won’t extra trees absorb CO2 from coal fires?

        I suppose the answer to that last question is that the forest has been chopped down to allow biofuel production.

        It’s a pity about the timing; a straight listing of green ‘thought’ would have made a good script for Monty Python.


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          Rereke Whakaaro

          But trees are renewable – for every one you chop down, you can plant another.

          Coal is not renewable. Once you have mined it, it is gone.

          No sarc tag here. This is what I, and the rest of the audience, were told by a conference speaker, just a few months ago.

          You couldn’t make this stuff up.


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            Grant (NZ)

            And younger, actively growing trees absorb more CO2 than mature or dying trees. So cutting them down and replacing them is actually good for CO2 sequestration.

            However, it is arguable that we have a CO2 impoverished atmosphere and that we already have enough green plants competing for the limited CO2 available. As has been noted elsewhere the rise in CO2 has lead to a greening of the planet.


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              Joe V.

              Yes but … Burning those you’ve cut down will undo all that good work of new growth. Safer to bury the cut down trees/and you never know, maybe one day they”ll turn into coal.


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  • #

    [...] Detta står nu att läsa i The Australian. Och på JoNova’s blogg. [...]


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    Now what would be the real icing on the cake is if the Freedom of Information requirements on all these closing departments was brought forward to the date of closure… Make it all public knowledge as to what was being spent and how it was spent NOW.

    That would well and truly close the door proper on all of this – no hiding away in other departments or agencies until the winds change.. The knickers will be well and truly be on the line for all to see.


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    Eliza

    The people in BOM who have doctored the temperature data to suit the AGW agenda need to be sacked or to be kind to them give them a last chance to return the data to its original raw data format.


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    Other_Andy

    Just had one of your locals, Catherine Deveny, on New Zealand TV.
    I love Melbourne but listening at her, you have your fair share of unintelligent wackos out there.
    http://tvnz.co.nz/seven-sharp/some-rather-honest-australian-thoughts-video-5581030


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    [...] Sept (JONOVA) – The clean up begins.  I am beaming. Just enjoy with me the small sweet pleasure of a day when [...]


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    MadJak

    I would really like to see all unemployment beneficiaries out there planting and pruning trees, collecting litter, and generally contirbuting back to society – 4 days a week with one day left for hunting for work. All funded by our tax dollars.

    Of course, us Kiwis would be excluded from doing anything as we permanently can’t register for centrelink payments, but that’s cool, you have permission to use my tax money in the aforementioned manner, we’ll just go to the job interviews on the other 4 days of the week.


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    Roy Hogue

    Enjoy! But keep close watch!


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    Joe V.

    The expectations being put on Abbott & his team here remind me of that Nobel Prize awarded to Obama more in anticipation of his messiahnic achievements than for anything he’d actually done.


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    I see that those damned coal fired power plants are getting the blame for the demise of the ….. Wooly Mammoth!

    Warming wiped out mammoths

    Tony.


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      ianl8888

      O/T, but:

      In the early 1990′s I was part of a small team of geologists mapping strata in Utah (US). We started in the north and worked our way south. This had the advantage of commencing with the youngest of the strata and methodically working our way back into deep time

      Near the southern end, we came across a small museum run by a geologist. His main public attraction was a wonderful plethora of Mesozoic fossils (mainly dinosaur and shark species) but he was a serious geoscientist

      When he realised we were part of the geoscientific cognoscenti, he showed us what he was currently working on in a small back room. Sometime earlier, a farmer clearing out a bog on his land had unearthed a complete mammoth carcase (not just fossilised bones, but a complete carcase). The beast was so huge that it had been dismembered and segments farmed out to various research people for competent analysis. Our museum friend had been given one whole, complete leg for examination. He was methodically, painstakingly removing all the mud and other detritus tiny bit by bit to allow examination of the full limb. Very controlled humidity and temperature, of course, with a CCTV monitoring the process 24/7

      Apart from the breathtaking size of the leg, another astonishing feature was the clear evidence of how it had died. The leg was broken – the animal had become bogged and broken its’ leg in trying to extricate itself in panic. And the most astonishing fact of all ? There were still several flint spearheads stuck deep into the bone … the then local aborigines had opportunistically attempted to kill and then butcher it for food


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      Manfred

      Oh well Tony, a guaranteed non-problem on two counts to wit:

      1. No warming 202 months and counting.
      2. They might be in the throes of resurrection, aka something extraordinary with mammoth DNA.
      3. The articel referred to is published by the open access journal of the Royal Society – Sir Paul Nurse’s lot, the same man who explained climate science paralleled a similar consensual process as oncologists in a hospital deciding on a treatment regime for a cancer sufferer (Delingpole / Nurse debate).


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      Angry

      Tony,
      Obviously the individuals writing this crap are excess carbon units….


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        Manfred

        This ‘crap’ as you put it has an impeccable pedigree Tony. Importantly it was published in the open access Journal of The Royal Society, the venerable institution in the UK of which Sir Paul Nurse is the head honcho and leading CAGW protagonist.

        In a discussion with Delingpole recently, he likened the climate consensus to the consensus that was developed between hospital oncologists when hypothetically treating a cancer Delinpole might be suffering from. He is a noxious green weed who has risen to the height of his incompetence and who endeavours to make up the shortfall by sanctimonius pomposity. The Royal Society I understand has gone to hell in a handbasket.


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    Bulldust

    ***NEWSFLASH***

    Member for Tangey, Dr Jensen of WA has put his hand up to be Science Minister:

    http://www.smh.com.au/federal-politics/political-news/climate-sceptic-mp-dennis-jensen-wants-to-be-science-minister-20130912-2tltt.html

    In case people weren’t aware, he is a prominent sceptic within political circles.


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      Tom

      I’d be interested to hear your assessment of this fellow, Joanne.


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      MemoryVault

      Here is the acid test for Abbott and the Coalition.

      It is one thing to change a few department names and shuffle a few public servants around. It is quite another to actually put somebody in charge who actually knows and understands the climate change scam, and is keen to do something about it.

      If Abbott makes Jensen the Minister for Innovation, Industry and Science, or Minister for Climate Action, Environment and Heritage – instead of loopy Hunt – then I’ll accept Abbott is serious and I’ve been wrong – he really DOES intend dismantling the whole scam.

      On the other hand, if Abbott leaves Jensen on the back bench, or marginalises him as Minister for Silly Walks or some such, then all you LIberal lovers who have been red-thumbing me for two years will have to eat humble pie and accept you all just got conned.

      .
      Again.


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      MemoryVault

      Bulldust,

      While I don’t really know what Abbott will do, just the thought of a climate skeptic becoming the Science Minister has caused a crescendo of exploding heads in the comments section of the article you linked to.


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      Andrew McRae

      8-OWhat what whaaat?

      It’s too good to be true, so it couldn’t possibly happen.

      And whilst I recognise that great minds can think alike and Jo may not deserve credit for Jensen’s words, there was this bit….

      Dr Jensen said if he were appointed science minister, his vision for science in Australia would centre on encouraging more young people to study science and fixing up the funding model of the Australian Research Council to encourage more innovation.

      Have we discovered a silent reader of note?

      Get those Facebooks updating and get the Twitters tweeting, tell Abbott & Co to give Jensen the Science gong regardless of the Indi result.


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        MemoryVault

        give Jensen the Science gong regardless of the Indi result.

        Sophie has already graciously withdrawn herself from contention for a Ministerial guernsey, owing to the fact that her seat is still in doubt, and waiting for the result is holding up everything else re announcing the Ministry.


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      Joe V.

      He’ll never do it. A candidate who comes out like that is far too obvious and Abbott has been much more guarded about his views on CC.
      Jensen may well be right & be well read but I didn’t see an original thought anywhere in that report. A Ministry needs a figurehead who is well briefed & well guided.


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    pat

    here’s another opportunity for the Coalition to prove it will stand up for business. to me, this Defence bid is absolutely ridiculous:

    11 Sept: Herald Sun: Defence bid to control section of the Adelaide to Darwin rail line on one in every five days of the year
    SOUTH Australia’s iconic Ghan rail journey is under threat by a Defence Department bid to control a section of the Adelaide to Darwin rail line on one in every five days of the year.
    The Advertiser can reveal operators of part of the rail line, Genesee and Wyoming, were told they would have to cancel trains in May because Defence needed the Woomera Prohibited Area for military tests…
    The railway travels through the Woomera Prohibited Area, which is increasingly needed by the Defence Department for its activities.
    “The concerns we have (raised with the Rudd government) remain open and we look forward to working with the new government,” a spokeswoman for Genesee and Wyoming said.
    The problem has come to light because the senate committee released submissions to its inquiry, including from Genesee and Wyoming managing director Greg Pauline, which outlined the threat to Ghan service and the company’s weekly freight task, worth $100 million…
    The incoming Abbott government ministry has not been announced, but Aspects of the plan were strongly questioned by then Opposition defence spokesman Senator David Johnson when the Bill passed the House of Representatives.His spokesman for Senator Johnston said the election had interrupted the progress of the Bill and the Senator still had concerns about rail and other access to the area. She said the issue was likely to be reconsidered when the ministry was announced…
    http://www.heraldsun.com.au/news/national/defence-bid-to-control-section-of-the-adelaide-to-darwin-rail-line-on-one-in-every-five-days-of-the-year/story-fnii5yv7-1226717271710

    speaking of ridiculous, how can a Caretaker Govt which knows it will be booted out within hours agree to this? were the Coalition consulted? answers please. did the Coalition agree to our signing this Statement, with no evidence to back up the claims? we can say it’s moot now that Obama had to back down, but that situation could change again at any time:

    6 Sept: Reuters: Factbox: Where G20 members stand on military action against Syria
    AUSTRALIA
    Called, in a joint statement with nine other G20 members plus Spain, for “a strong international response.” A senior U.S. official said that statement was an implicit endorsement of use of military power even though it did not say so explicitly.
    “The position we adopted was correct,” Foreign Minister Bob Carr said, according to the Melbourne Herald Sun…
    http://news.yahoo.com/factbox-where-g20-members-stand-military-action-against-020414173.html


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    pat

    btw i can find no Fairfax or ABC coverage of Australia signing on to the G20 Joint Statement. only Murdoch media. with an attack on Syria being almost universally unpopular, i am sure ABC & Fairfax would not have wanted Labor voters knowing of this Statement as they were heading off to the Polls.


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    pat

    with all that taxpayer money ABC gets, u’d think they could have done a “Four Corners” on this by now!

    Danish film lifts lid on “crime of the century” CO2 trading scams
    LONDON, Sept 11 (Reuters Point Carbon) – Thefts, fraud and money laundering in Europe’s carbon market have cost European companies and taxpayers more than 15 billion euros ($19.9 billion) since its 2005 inception, according to a new documentary by Danish filmmaker Tom Heinemann…
    http://www.pointcarbon.com/news/1.2566040


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    pat

    11 Sept SMH: John Kemp: World’s largest carbon capture begins even as Abbott tax repeal looms
    Starting in 2014/15, Chevron will begin injecting 120 million tonnes of pressurised supercritical carbon dioxide 2.5 kilometres underground as part of its giant Gorgon LNG project…
    Chevron is spending $US2 billion on the world’s largest CO2-injection facility, which will store over 3 million tonnes per year, making it by far the world’s largest CO2 storage project, and creating a unique opportunity to study how injected CO2 behaves underground in saline aquifers…
    Together with its joint venture partners, Chevron will be responsible for any costs associated with leaks and other damage duration the lifetime of the project and for 15 years after CO2 injection ceases.
    But the federal and WA governments have agreed to accept responsibility for any long-term liabilities.
    Commonwealth and state indemnities will protect the joint venture partners from any common law liability arising from third-party claims for loss or damage, suffered after the site closes…
    http://www.smh.com.au/business/carbon-economy/worlds-largest-carbon-capture-begins-even-as-abbott-tax-repeal-looms-20130911-2tj0c.html

    From Chevron website: “The Australian Government has committed $60 million to the Gorgon Carbon Dioxide Injection Project as part of the Low Emissions Technology Demonstration Fund (LETDF).” so how do Chevron & partners make the money back from their investment of $2bn?

    and why bother!

    A third of food is wasted, making it third-biggest carbon emitter, UN says
    ROME, Sept 11 (Reuters) – The food the world wastes accounts for more greenhouse gas emissions than any country except for China and the United States, the United Nations said in a report on Wednesday…
    http://www.pointcarbon.com/news/reutersnews/1.2564792?&ref=searchlist


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    Nathan

    Here’s a great idea.
    MP Dennis Jensen as Science Minister! What a splendid idea – someone who actually knows about the scientific method in charge.


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    pat

    12 Sept: SMH: Bill Shorten nominates for Labor leadership
    by Jonathan Swan and Judith Ireland
    “I have the passion, I have the commitment, I have the ideas to lead Australia,” Mr Shorten said.
    Mr Shorten also indicated that if he leads Labor in opposition he would not be supporting Mr Abbott in repealing the carbon tax. Mr Shorten rejected Mr Abbott’s argument that Labor should respect his “mandate” to scrap the tax.
    “I believe that climate change is real,” Mr Shorten said. “I believe that man-made carbon emissions contribute to climate change. I know that Labor fundamentally believes in putting a price on carbon pollution…
    The member for Maribyrnong said that he had no concerns about a conflict of interest should he be elected Labor leader, given that his mother-in-law is Governor-General Quentin Bryce…
    http://www.smh.com.au/federal-politics/political-news/bill-shorten-nominates-for-labor-leadership-20130912-2tm5j.html


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    pat

    TonyfromOz -

    please break down. the rest of the tesxt of the WSJ article is spin, like the headline, cos there is no indication China has pledged to cut coal consumption in the story. there is merely a pledge that China will try to reduce coal’s percentage of the energy mix by 2017 by 5%. 5% of what? surely energy use will be up by a lot more than 5% by 2017, so it will not be a decrease in coal consumption at all:

    11 Sept: Wall St Journal: Brian Spegele: China Pledges to Cut Coal Consumption
    China has long tried to tackle pollution from coal, which now accounts for around 70% of the energy mix, but has struggled to curtail coal consumption because of limited domestic alternative-energy resources…
    On Thursday the government said it aimed cut coal’s portion of the fuel mix to less than 65% by 2017…
    It is also unclear how new targets will be measured or enforced, which has been a long-standing challenge in lowering overall pollution levels…
    http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424127887324094704579069983984013094.html

    SMH rushes to take up the Reuters spin & Google has the story prominent on their News homepage:

    12 Sept: SMH: Reuters: China reveals plans to curb coal use
    China will aim to cut total coal consumption to below 65 per cent of total primary energy use by 2017 as part of a comprehensive new plan to tackle air pollution, the government said on Thursday…
    http://www.smh.com.au/business/carbon-economy/china-reveals-plans-to-curb-coal-use-20130912-2tml8.html


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    Matty

    It’s a turning point alright Jo. I’ve crowed early on this before but I can’t see this crap surviving until the 2016 election. Shorten and Albanese recommitting to carbon pricing?? I can only assume that’s because if they don’t the party will split in half, what a mess for the ALP. They are the ones who went out and made it a big issue but were the last to realize that voters saw it as an issue for govt and never really engaged with it. Reminds me of the recycling push years ago – everyone felt it was right but until recycling was made practically identical to disposal, not many bothered. With climate alarmism there was widespread acquiescence but no preparedness to open wallets. Huge miscalculation.

    A climate war is about to begin in Australia and it maybe at it’s fiercest inside the ALP. By 2016 the world will not have warmed in 19 years!! V-Day coming up now, have the champers ready, because when the ALP finally ditches this madness the whole narrative of doom will disintegrate.


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    I see Barack Obama phoned up Tony Abbott to congratulate him on his election victory.

    He was really really effusive and so full of congratulations, right up to the point he found out that The Liberal Party was from the Conservative side of politics.

    Then he asked how the skiing was at Innsbruck this year.

    PM-elect Tony Abbott speaks with US president Barack Obama

    SecState John Kerry also phoned up and spoke with Julie Bishop. Then, to reinforce how was across the situation, he asked her to say hello to her Mum, Bronwyn, an old friend of his from way back.

    Tony.

    PostScript: Sorry, I couldn’t help myself. Nyuk nyuk nyuk!


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    A change of climate in UK Parliament.

    Parliament’s cushy consensus over climate change is dead. In 2008, when the Climate Change Bill had its third reading in the Commons, only five MPs voted against. But with doomsday predictions failing to materialize, and the planet failing to warm, MPs are starting to get more skeptical.

    Peter Lilley called for the Act to be scrapped, to much vocal support:

    The Act is not just the most expensive, impractically ambitious and uncertainly based piece of legislation that I have ever known; it is unique in being legally binding and unilateral. No other country has followed us down that route. Since we went down that route, Canada and Japan have resiled from Kyoto, and Australia has just abandoned its carbon tax. It is time we looked critically at the Act, repealed or revised it, and do not allow ourselves to be slavishly, legally bound to continue doing something that no longer accords with the evidence or goes along with what the rest of the world is doing.

    UKIP’s Nigel Farage smells blood and has a go at the European Parliament‘s “green line”. Barroso defends, now claiming that “99% of the science now believes that this climate change exists as a result of human activity“. Tallbloke reckons it’ll be 104% next year.


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    Michael the Realist

    Tony Abbott said then that he “didn’t see the point of paying Professor Tim Flannery about $180,000 a year for views which he considers already public knowledge”…

    Interesting that Tony Abbott even thinks climate misleaders are so wrong they are in the tiny minority.


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      The Alarmist Formerly Known As

      Abbott didn’t say what he thought of that public knowledge. (Well not since his CC statement anyway).


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      MemoryVault

      Tony Abbott said then that he “didn’t see the point of paying Professor Tim Flannery about $180,000 a year for views which he considers already public knowledge”…

      Aaah Michael, good to see you have decided to bless us with your presence on another thread. I am sure you are far too modest to have any idea of just what a great job you are doing. All I can say is “keep going, you good thing”.

      Just one minor point though, if you are going to make out you are quoting somebody, try to make sure what you claim bears some passing semblance to what the person actually said. Tony Abbott never said anything like what you claim above. What he said was:

      I suspect we might find the particular position you refer to might go with them,” Mr Abbott told 2GB’s Ray Hadley when asked about Professor Flannery.

      It does sound like an unnecessary position given the gentlemen in question gives us the benefit of his views without needing taxpayer funding.

      Which I am sure you’ll agree is entirely different from the inference of your misquote.

      .
      But don’t one simple error stop you lad.
      Post! Post! Post!

      Go for it.


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        Andrew McRae

        What’s hilarious is that even dyed-green-in-the-wool warmist Ben Cubby got the whole quote right.
        Unfortunately I don’t think Jo noticed that the quote text in question which she alleges is from the Australian article, but certainly repeated in the Herald Sun, was not actually a quote of Abbott but a curly paraphrase due to one of the following pseudojournalists: Lanai Scarr, Mark Dunn, Stephen Fitzpatrick, or Jared Owens.

        Michael has nonetheless taken the final and spectacular leap of transforming “public knowledge” into majority opinion. Guy musta been a pro at Chinese Whispers.


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        Michael the Realist

        Memory Vault I only repeated what Jonova said above, if there is an error it was not mine. That was all I was commenting on, the thread itself.

        I have noticed that the lib failures are occurring before he is even in parliament. What should we call them? the ‘cash for rowboats’ failure and the ‘turn the boats around and then turn them back’ scheme?

        I notice that unemployment has risen, I guess unemployment will always be lower under labor.


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          MemoryVault

          Memory Vault I only repeated what Jonova said above, if there is an error it was not mine. That was all I was commenting on, the thread itself.

          No, Michael, what you said precisely was:

          Interesting that Tony Abbott even thinks climate misleaders are so wrong they are in the tiny minority.

          I am well aware that what Jo wrote was a misquote. However, you did not know that. You (as usual) simply repeated it as “known fact”, and attributed it directly to Abbott, without even checking to see what he actually said.

          .
          You just can’t help yourself. Having erred once, you then compounded the problem:

          I notice that unemployment has risen, I guess unemployment will always be lower under labor.

          Here is the actual headline from the Sydney Morning Herald:

          The economy unexpectedly shed 10,800 jobs in August, taking the unemployment rate to a fresh four-year high…

          Note the month, Michael – AUGUST. KRudd and Labor were running the show for ALL of August.

          .
          Your journalism is as sloppy as your science – and that’s saying something!


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            Michael the Realist

            I am well aware that what Jo wrote was a misquote

            and I had no reason to suspect that, just like a lot of supporting posters here did not either.

            You just can’t help yourself. Having erred once, you then compounded the problem:

            The job comment was a joke joyce. Obviously the lib gov has not even been sworn in yet.


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      AndyG55

      You use the word “Realist” the same way John Cook uses “Skeptical”

      ie.. as a JOKE !!!!


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      AndyG55

      A tiny minority that gave the Liberals something like 90 seats in the HOR. :-)

      Welcome to REALITY, little twerp.


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      Angry

      Michael the MORON.

      There I fixed it for you !

      Don’t mention it.


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    [...] Coalition starts axing Australia’s carbon-bureaucrat-machinery (joannenova.com.au) [...]


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    Eliza

    Jo I suggest that your top heading (The whole blue area) always link to you current home page like WUWT etc. Its quite difficult to return to your current main page form a past post etc if you get what I mean haha. You should also consider sticky posts?


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      Joe V.

      Just in case you might have missed it Eliza, go to the top (Jo’s seems one if the few sites that will do that when you touch the top of a smartphone screen).
      Select the ‘Home.’ drop down and select the ‘ARCHIVED Blog pages’ from there, which will give you a list of everything, Though I’d agree. The whole blue area would be much easier to hit on a teeny weeny smartphone screen.
      Jo’s site seems so clear & easy to navigate compared to most IMHO.


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    Cal

    Why, surely if you just stop reporting the warming, that’ll make it stop happening!

    That’s how you science-deniers seem to think, at any rate.


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    congratulation to Tony Abbot and all of you warriors! because the ”carbon tax” is still in power, Tony and his team need your moral support. The sky is not going to fall down: http://globalwarmingdenier.wordpress.com/2012/09/10/global-temperature/


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    without a carbon tax, the sky will fall down will be your fault


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    [...] Australia the grand failure of the carbon tax in the recent election is still ripping through the news, the institutions, and the mood. It was a categorical defeat. From comments and emails I know [...]


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