JoNova

A science presenter, writer, speaker & former TV host; author of The Skeptic's Handbook (over 200,000 copies distributed & available in 15 languages).


Handbooks

The Skeptics Handbook

Think it has been debunked? See here.

The Skeptics Handbook II

Climate Money Paper


Advertising

micropace


GoldNerds

The nerds have the numbers on precious metals investments on the ASX



Archives

130,000 Australians say No Carbon Tax, Greens flop, Labor issues biblical scare campaign

What a week downunder, just in case you missed it.

We’re a nation, up in arms. With three months til G-Day (when the Greens control the Senate on July 1) and the tax-based-on-a-lie likely to become legislation, the heat is on. Protests and smears are running strong. Forces are being mobilized, and people are being polarized. Yet the public is abandoning the carbon tax, and the parties who promote it.

As the mass rally movements begin the Big Scare Campaign fans responded with smears to paint the rally-goers as extreme fringe, loonies and nutters. The fringe in this case turns out to be 4 out of 5 people.  Who are the “deniers”? When asked, do you support the carbon tax? One hundred and thirty thousand people said NO.

83% of the Channel  Nine poll don’t want a carbon tax.

The Labor Party sent out biblical climate speaking notes to all it’s ministers the floods and droughts are coming, oceans will rise up and wash away your home, there will be burning bushes, and the storms will kill your firstborn (or words to that effect). And they howl about Abbot running a fear campaign. Wait for the advice about the seven plagues of locusts. It’s coming.

Tim Flannery admitted we’re doing all this to help people 1000 years from now, (just on the off chance you havent heard) and now, a day after Bolt eked that admission from him, people all round the world know it. [ The Australian, in the UK and, Watts Up too. See the Youtube version]. We can all feel a bit sorry for Tim, he’s been talking within self-serving groupthink committees for so long, he was blindsided when he finally got asked the question that should have been asked ten years ago.

The Greens flopped: The NSW election held yesterday showed that people who deserted Labor did not go to the Greens en masse, they went to the conservatives and in droves. A massive 17% swing against the long running Labor party resulted in a minor 1% gain for the Greens. The Greens had hoped to win 1 or even 2 seats (winning any seat would be a first) but the Labor party appear to have retained those two inner city seats. (The SMH site says both:  Balmain is too close to call, but on it’s map, the ALP won.)

$12 billion dollars was spent on carbon reduction and no one can point to any useful outcome

The independent Melbourne think tank the Grattan Institute, analysed the more than $12bn of state and federal funding for more than 300 carbon reduction schemes and renewable energy programs over the past 15 years and found the result was mostly negligible.

This is what happens when governments try to pick winners. Both sides of politics tried, and both sides failed.

VN:F [1.9.22_1171]
Rating: 5.5/10 (4 votes cast)
130,000 Australians say No Carbon Tax, Greens flop, Labor issues biblical scare campaign, 5.5 out of 10 based on 4 ratings

Tiny Url for this post: http://tinyurl.com/4a7strj

126 comments to 130,000 Australians say No Carbon Tax, Greens flop, Labor issues biblical scare campaign

  • #
    Binny

    The ALP rode the AGW tiger into government and now they have no idea how to get off. They are stuck on its back and until it finally turns and eats them up.

    00

  • #
    macha

    This is why information from ‘other’ scientists can no longer be subverted or kept under wraps. Nor can secret deals, the likes that climategate gave us, stay hidden forever.

    http://hockeyschtick.blogspot.com/2011/03/geophysicist-explains-how-sun-controls.html

    Its a pretty plain speaking account IMO.

    MSM outlets or the autralian ‘commission’ on climate change and/or carbon tax ( read here Flannery and Combet or even Garnaut) need to get this guy on for a bit – along with David Evans, and spend some time on the possibility they (CAGW’ers) have been led up the garden path. Most know we have been let down by lazy ‘science’ and even lazier reporters.

    00

  • #
    janama

    This morning on Insiders they all talked about how terrible the placards were at the rally, and later on the cartoons pictures segment, ity was embarrassing listen to them all use the same old put downs of the redneck type – no one (apart from Gerard Henderson) even mentioned what the rally was about yet it was that anger that drove the election swing up to 17%!!

    Talk about blinkers!!

    00

  • #

    The center is moving and still they hurl insults. That will only make the center move further away. Although they are their own worst enemy, they are in positions of power and can continue to be very dangerous. There is a lot of work yet to be done.

    You started this blog in September of 2008 with only a hope to be able to make a difference. After almost 50,000 posts, it is a force to be reckoned with. Looks to me that we can do the work and get the job done. We simply have to hang in there and keep on topic.

    00

  • #
    william gray

    This is so important.
    For those attending the Sydney and other Carbon dioxide rallies KEEP THE BANNERS POLITE STAY ON TOPIC, and if we see any offensive posters in front of camera,s step in and stop it happening.
    We have a long haul yet, no need to make the path harder.
    By the way. what a surprise our local liberal candidate Rosa Sage had a banner saying quote ‘Rosa Sage does not beleive in man made climate change.’

    [The best way to foil photo's that don't represent the anti-carbon tax cause is to stand between the camera and the banner, while politely suggesting that the message is not one most people support. In the US I hear, "plants" turned up with incendiary banners to the Tea Party rallies. Though here so far they have been overly-keen protestors. --JN]

    00

  • #
  • #
    pattoh

    Perhaps the real agenda behind political support for the whole CAGW machine really is to earn brownie points for a retirement gig (complete with airconditioned offices, lattes & frequent flier points) on the UN.

    My bet Kevvy is jealous of the job Helen Clark(e?) scored & I reckon JG has cast her lawyer’s eye that way too. Mark Latham came up with a phrase about “a conga line of ….”. It would appear to be an appropriate description for the mob milling around the UN trough.

    00

  • #
    Popeye

    Jo – do you or anyone else know who the speakers are going to be and if so can you post it here for all to see? (Thanks).

    I already have my slogans worked out – I have at least two nephews (21 & 23) accompanying me (and some other families as well). These people are NOT radicals or extremists – they just see it for what it is – A GREAT BIG SCAM.

    Cheers,

    00

  • #

    The result is similar to the “NZ should scrap the Emissions Trading Scheme (ETS)” question in Family First’s survey. 67% of those who answered wanted to scrap the ETS, 14% would keep it, and 19% have not made up their mind.

    00

  • #
    Richard carroll

    Congrats to Australia. Even the Australian socialists have seen through the carbon tax:
    “Even the socialist movement is freaked out over the carbon taxes:
    “Labor, with the support of the Greens, is committed to imposing a carbon tax that will be used to hand billions of dollars to the big corporate polluters and so-called “green” companies, as well as help finance the planned corporate and income tax cuts. None of these measures will do anything to arrest global warming, while ordinary people will be left to try and pay inflated prices for energy, fuel and other essentials.”
    http://www.wsws.org/articles/2011/mar2011/vote-m25.shtml
    I think that only when labor gets rid of Tim Flannery and returns to their roots will they rebound.

    00

  • #
    wes george

    janama:
    March 27th, 2011 at 1:13 pm

    This morning on Insiders they all talked about how terrible the placards were at the rally, and later on the cartoons pictures segment, it was embarrassing listen to them all use the same old put downs of the redneck type – no one (apart from Gerard Henderson) even mentioned what the rally was about yet it was that anger that drove the election swing up to 17%!!
    Talk about blinkers!!

    Andrew Bolt also notices that there is something about leftists and hypocrisy, the two are always waltzing hand in hand down the yellow brick road to nowhere:

    http://blogs.news.com.au/heraldsun/andrewbolt/index.php/heraldsun/comments/what_is_it_with_the_left_and_violence_and_hypocrisy/

    It’s as if these people have no memories.

    They exist entirely in the moment and the moment is always about how wonderful they are and how ignorant and down right unfashionable anyone who dares question their orthodoxy is, at the moment, of course.

    It’s always “at the moment” for them, because tomorrow they may wake up and say “Hey, let’s invade Libya to oust a brutal dictator and install a democracy! It’s New. It’s Unique! Never been tried before and if it had been we would have been all for it!”

    You wouldn’t trust these people to run a kumquat stand at the Byron Bay farmer’s market much guide our nation’s economy.

    00

  • #

    Jo

    With news like this I am reminded again of an aphorism from Ghandi we were quoting over a year ago – ‘First they ignore you, then they ridicule you, then they fight you, then you win’ (or words to that effect) I thought they were fighting us then but little did I realise it would get this bad! Thanks again to you and Dave for your great fortitude in this struggle – if I can use phraseology from the4 barricades!!!

    00

  • #
    incoherent rambler

    At these times of importance when societies live or die by their political decisions, I must say I just love the Australian sense of humour. “Ditch the witch” is humorous (to me). May I please have a poll which asks : “Do you find ‘Ditch the witch’ humorous?”.

    19,000,000 say it is humorous
    2,000,000 say it is bad taste.

    00

  • #
    Rob Moore

    Hello Joanne,
    Great job you are doing and I feel we are starting to win!
    See link here- http://agmates.ning.com/forum/topics/co2-tax-in-full-detail?xg_source=activity

    Christopher gives high praise to you and your husbands efforts .

    00

  • #
    Lawrie

    I think it is a great honour to be in the group that has absorbed the insults and barbs and still reject the false prophets. The bunch of scientific illiterates that occupy thr government benches should heed the NSW vote. Maybe QLD will be next to feel the wrath of fed up voters or maybe Gillard will be forced to the polls sooner. Windsor and Oakeshott should read the results in their own electorates, under 5% support for the ALP and less for the Greens, and reconsider their support for a CO2 tax. They are there to convey the electorates wishes to government not their own dubious wisdom. A lost vote in the House will finish Gillard and her government.

    00

  • #
    gnome

    with a result like this the ABC should sack their campaign mananger!

    00

  • #
    UK Sceptic

    NSWers and anti-CO2 tax protesters – you beauties!

    00

  • #
  • #
    Graham Richards

    The MSM on also on the “propaganda warpath”. Friday night on FOXTEL there were at least four programmes, fact & fictional, with a CO2 story to tell. The most laughable telling us that global warming will an ice age!!!!

    I don’t think I can continue to pay FOXTEL to brainwash me. Time to dump the pay for your own “”brainwashing channel.”"

    Perhaps it’s also time to tell the advertisers sponsoring these propaganda channels that we shall boycott their products.

    We the electorate can also get nasty. Just wait!!

    00

  • #
    David

    Graham,

    Foxtel is owned by Telstra Corporation Ltd (50%), The News Corporation Ltd (25%), and Consolidated Media Holdings Limited (25%). The advertisers dominate the income and the owners decide – Telstra decides as major shareholder – and is in the Government pocket. Ask Lolwot (or whatever his name is?)Good call – dump Foxtel and the boycott will work. The advertisers will follow the 83% of Australians & New Zealanders? You there MattB, Luke, Lucy, JB, Lowlot (or what ever you are)?

    00

  • #
    The Loaded Dog

    You there MattB, Luke, Lucy, JB, Lowlot (or what ever you are)?

    Hmm, I think the poor things are in a state of shock. They’ll be in the fetal position in a corner somewhere vigorously sucking their thumbs.

    00

  • #
    Peter Walsh

    Go Aussies, keep up this wonderful momentum in the battle.

    Remember:

    GAGW

    00

  • #
    Peter Walsh

    oops, HAVING A BAD HAIR DAY HERE IN DUBLIN

    missed out the last few words above

    here goes again

    CAGW STANDS FOR

    CAMPAIGN AGAINST GLOBAL WARMING

    00

  • #
    Rick Bradford

    The Greenies are caught out by their exaggerated fervour to return us all to the Stone Age:

    From today’s SMH:

    “Dermot O’Gorman, chief executive of the World Wildlife Fund Australia – which organises the event with Fairfax Media, publisher of The Sun-Herald – said it [Earth Hour] was proof that small actions could inspire global change.

    ”Earth Hour has evolved so much over the past five years,” Mr O’Gorman said. ”It’s gone from a small idea to something which is now embraced by 131 countries and hundreds of billions of people.”

    There is life on Mars! Just like us!

    00

  • #
    Paul79

    The voters of NSW have spoken. Federal government members say it was decided on state matters, nothing to do with the carbon tax. Although much of the swing may be so, dismissing the mood of the electorate is at their peril. Unfortunately, the threat of this tax still hangs over us.
    Instead of discussion or debate, abuse is hurled at anyone who does not agree with their dogma.

    00

  • #
    Jaymez

    The more Labor and the Greens call average Australians extremists and deniers, the more support they will lose. Oakeshott and Windsor would have to be feeling a little more circumspect today after the NSW elections.

    00

  • #
    Jim Barker

    Even more evidence of fraud.

    Just when you think the bottom of the Hockey Stick rabbit hole has been reached, Steve McIntyre finds yet more evidence of misconduct by the Team.

    http://wattsupwiththat.com/2011/03/24/steve-mcintyre-uncovers-another-trick/#more-36551

    00

  • #
    Peter Walsh

    Dermot O’Gorman says

    hundreds of billions of people.”

    I presume he didn’t pass maths in school or in his local hedge school even.

    How many billions? I ask

    Hundreds, he says! Um wrong number matie, our nice little blue planet (which could very well do with one less person on it named O’Gorman) currently has a population close to 7 billion.

    Back to basic maths before you declaim further on things about which you obviously know absolutely nothing.

    Idiot.

    And shame on we Irish. This idiot has a very Irish name and I reject and eject him from our community.

    Peter Walsh
    Dublin

    00

  • #
    Speedy

    Rick @ 23

    What has made civilisation work has been our capacity for logical reason – and the odd bit of numerical capacity! By rejecting these and the concept of logical tolerance, the greens are turning their collective back on the foundations of the civilisation that fed them as babes!!!

    What chance that the greens would have us all believe in gaia and disbelieve in science?

    I can see that this would take us nowhere pleasant.

    Cheers,

    Speedy.

    00

  • #
    Adolf Balik

    To Speedy – 28

    To me Greenies have stopped believing in Gaia. Gaia is an even-tempered, wise, stabile and stabilizing mother who has her cycles and periods, as it is appropriate for a mother, but keeps things in balance and actively maintains the world being a life supporting home. They removed the home keeper with a new divine super-creature Gaina – an unbalanced, hysterical, immature, probably anorectic freak, who responses to each misbalance with a situation aggravating hysterical attack instead of balancing effort. The so called climate sensitivity – better call it climate hysteria – which is attributed to her – is a good example of the change. The old good Gaia would respond to a heat misbalance with a stabilizing negative feedback while the Gaina reputedly responses with a hysterical aggravating exponential balance destroying attack.

    00

  • #
    Roy Hogue

    Jo,

    If you’ve ever had any doubts, forget it. Everything you’ve done has been paying off. And now they have made a great mistake with this carbon tax. Opportunity knocks…

    00

  • #

    [...] the words of Aussie blogger Joanne Nova, Australia is currently “up in arms.” Last summer, on the [...]

    00

  • #

    There are more of you than there are of them.

    00

  • #
    Mark

    Listening to the radio on the way back from my son’s place last night. As an exercise, the presenter asked callers how they voted. Two callers in the few minutes said they voted Green. Why? Because they didn’t like the major parties.

    It became clear in both cases that neither caller had the slightest idea about the Green manifesto. I blame the coalition for this ignorance; they seem to believe that if they are nice to the Greens they will gain some favours. That is a vain hope.

    While I am prepared to give Abbott credit for ridding us of Turnbull, he will not gain further electoral support until he exposes and then takes the cudgel and the blowtorch to the fundamentally communist nature of brand Green.

    00

  • #
    Paul S

    In so much as there seems to be a shift in public opinion or understanding of some of the inplications of the C02 tax, and AGW policy generally, the mainstream media still dominate the discussion and act os primary gatekeepers of knowledge for most of the population. Perhaps a concerted campaign by those who comment on sites like this one to bombard the editors and journalists of the ABC, the SMH, The Australian, etc, with facts, references and direct challenges to investigate and answer the flaws and weaknesses in the AGW argument might push the debate further. I have been told in discussion with several very bright family members and friends that they do not have the time to brouse the blogs and gain an understanding of the subject. When I have explained it to them and quickly shown them a few posts, sites, clips etc, the penny has begun to drop, but this is a slow way to make progress. When mainstream media organs begin to express doubt and begin to tell their audiences about the errors and obfuscations we all know are currently hidden from general view, then the tide will decisively turn.

    00

  • #
    Binny

    Rick Bradford:@23
    Bugger ‘earth hour’ let’s have ‘earth week’ turn off all power except renewables for a whole week.
    If that doesn’t cure the idiots nothing will!
    It would be worth the sacrifice just to hear crying and moaning.

    00

  • #
    Another Ian

    Re Binny at #1

    “There was a young lady from Niger,
    Who smiled as she rode on a tiger.
    They returned from the ride
    With the lady inside,
    And the smile on the face of the tiger.”

    Could perhaps be adapted to be more pointed too.

    00

  • #
    wes george

    william gray @ 5

    This is so important.
    For those attending the Sydney and other Carbon dioxide rallies KEEP THE BANNERS POLITE STAY ON TOPIC, and if we see any offensive posters in front of camera,s step in and stop it happening.

    The ABC and their masters, the Labor/Green coalition, are out get you anyway they can. Lying, vitriol and spin are their usual kit, but they’d be happy to fit you up by trumpeting any fakes in your midst as representative of all…

    The ABC editors know that when the grassroots middle class is so angry that they show up in the thousands for anti-Labor/Green rallies that, well, absolutely nothing untoward is going to happen. Dullsville, that. Doesn’t make good Tee Vee.

    Unlike trade unionists, Greenies and anti-war “pacifist” protesters, the middle class aren’t professional agitators or moonbats. They have real jobs and real lives and have no intention of making an ugly scene just for the cameras or getting arrested to prove their “moral superiority.” Of the thousands of US tea party rallies not one has ever turned into a violent confrontation with the police. In fact, Washington DC police now regularly turn out but one tenth the number of cops to patrol massive tea party events that were needed to restrain smaller but riotous mobs of “peace” demonstrators against the Iraq war.

    All the ABC has got to smear you with is your single most silly sign.

    Problem is signs that shout “Ditch the Witch” or “Juliar is Bob’s Bitch” are really kind of winsome when compared with Greg Combet leading an armed mob of trade unionists in a tactical assault on parliament building or Bob Brown’s Greenshirts hurling feces and urine bombs. Or burning in effigy John Howard dressed as Hitler. Or a hundred other thuggish and violent attacks at Labor/Green demonstrations over the past 30 years.

    So when the ABC railed on in faux outrage over anti-Gillard placards they exposed themselves as the maliciously hypocritical sockpuppets for the Labor/Greens that they really are. They’ll be looking for a more “productive” strategy next time. Hmmmm, wonder what that might be? Don’t know.

    But If you attend an anti-carbon tax rally you must bring your video camera, watch the crowd and the stage. Watch for something fake.

    If someone has an offensive sign please ask them politely what they think their sign means and how it will be interpreted by the Labor/Green propagandists at the ABC. Video record their answers, inform them you might want to post their response on Youtube or your blog. Get their name. Be nice and polite. If they don’t want to be on video record explaining their placard in public, then maybe they haven’t actually thought through the implications of their actions.

    We all have to learn how to behave on a public stage where our actions matter.

    00

  • #
    macha

    SCP @31.
    I doubt numbers have much to do with it, else it would be a democracy – which is obviously not the case.

    Money gets syphoned to those that know the rules and how to play the game. The government’s public service machine does not ‘interpret’ polcy it simply executes blindly
    eg1 pensioners get a $500 fuel voucher – regardless if you have a car, a license or even access to a taxi (country towns so not have taxi’s)
    eg2 The Burswood Casino makes ~$700 million profit but still gets a $20K grant to install a “green’ waste disposal unit in one of their kitchens.
    eg3 mayors can go on half a dozen overseas trips despite ‘guidelines’ restricting them to no more than two in any four year period (re: Scafidi’s latest $90K jaunt)
    eg4 EBA with offshore oil/gas companies in WA secure deals that provide ~$300-$400K per year for cleaners and cooks on drill-rigs.
    etc.

    These minor grass-roots things are over and above the billions we already know about just on climate change expenses alone. The mass population does not support these actions but they still occur.

    00

  • #
    Lawrie

    Most of us know that the ABC favours the left of politics and we also know from experience that some ABC “journalists” are even more hostile to the conservatives. Kerry O’Brien is one such. Here is his “interview with Barry O’Farrell on Saturday night.

    http://blogs.news.com.au/heraldsun/andrewbolt/index.php/heraldsun/comments/ofarrell_disses_obrien/

    From the comments that followed it would seem that the conservatives are either not being interviewed by the ABC or are not allowing themselves to be interviewed by the ABC. Either way the ABC has successfully scored an own goal.

    00

  • #
    Bruce of Newcastle

    A few interesting numbers. In Tony Windsor’s area the combined vote for the ALP and the Greens adds up to less than 7% in both the NSW seats of Tamworth and Northern Tablelands.

    In Rob Oakeshott’s seat of Port Macquarie the sum of the ALP plus Greens vote is less than 10%.

    The largest swing against a sitting ALP member, 28%, was in Charlestown, where Mr Combet has his electoral office…

    00

  • #
    Rereke Whakaaro

    Lionell Griffith: #4

    The center is moving and still they hurl insults. That will only make the center move further away.

    Your comment made me think of this:

    “The aristocracy were so insulated from the brutish reality of peasant life, that they continued to hurl insults and threats at the populace, even as they were being taken to the guillotine.”

    Which led me to adapt this:

    Do you hear the people sing
    Singing the song of angry men
    It is the music of a people
    Who will not be conned again
    When the beating of your heart
    Echoes the beating of the drum
    There is a change about to start
    When elections come

    Will you join in our crusade
    Who will be strong and stand with me
    Beyond the carbon tax
    Is there a world you long to see
    Then join us in the fight
    That will give you the right to be free

    Do you hear the people sing
    Singing the song of angry men
    It is the music of a people
    Who will not be conned again
    When the beating of your heart
    Echoes the beating of the drum
    There is a life about to start
    When elections come

    Good luck with the other marches. Your cousins over the ditch are behind you (a long way behind you, but still there).

    00

  • #
    Emil

    Man made global warming is a scam, a fraud of the highest order. There is only a consensus of the science involved among a SMALL group of scientists/social activists. Literally tens of thousands of scientists have signed letters to various governments and the UN IPCC denouncing the so called consensus. Who has most to gain, the scientists that push the global warming science or those that don’t. The ones that push global warming have received literally hundreds of millions of dollars in grants to research global warming, what happens to that money if they say there is no man made global warming? We are watching a gigantic agenda to transfer huge amounts of money to unelected, unaccountable bureaucrats around the world. Do you trust politicians to do good for the people or for themselves and their party? If you trust politicians you are very naive. The Australian people need to fire the politicians behind these efforts to tax them and lower our standard of living for what can not be scientifically proved. They us computers to predict what will happen 50 years from now, computers are wonderful but they are not that good, they depend on the data entered into them. If the data is corrupt the predictions can not be relied upon.

    00

  • #
    crakar24

    Wes @ 35,

    Basically if you go to a rally and someone has a poorly worded banner or they are the ones suggesting to destroy property and the like then it is a good chance they are “agent provocateurs”. The best method is to remove these from your protest by any means possible as they are there with the sole purpose to make you look bad.

    We should all keep an eye out for this type of person from now on.

    00

  • #
    July

    To David, in response to 26 in the previous post, can’t let this go through to the ‘keeper.

    Classic junk-science tactic David, you must be a graduate from the Moncktonian School of Misrepresentation, Strawmen & Lies. If are more than semi-literate read what I wrote you clown. If not get your special needs teacher to do it for you.
    To others who responded to that post, I wont respond to irrelevant questions or red herrings to the central point I am making.
    To Nova, let’s be honest this site is purely political (no harm in that, we do need an intelligent debate on how we deal with this problem). Forget your pseudo-science and argue the tax issues.
    PS; I can’t believe you think people are so stupid as to swallow that old thermometer siting myth. Then again……..

    00

  • #
    val majkus

    this is my favourite article on the Canberra rally (yes I know it’s the ABC) but read the article and you’ll be surprised:
    http://www.abc.net.au/unleashed/45518.html

    just my favourite bits:
    …To be honest, I had no idea these people were extremists until advised over the radio by Labor backbencher Nick Champion who was doing a doorstop interview at our destination. As soon as the information came through the radio speakers, I began to take notes just in case you, dear reader, should ever find yourself with one in your midst.

    Despite a vastly inaccurate report from AAP that the crowd was 1,000, I can confirm that the extremists stretched back from the stage for about 80 metres down the lawn – easily 4,000 strong, probably more

    the biggest surprise of the day. This honour belonged to the occasion – later – when an older lady suffered heat stroke and Angry asked whether a doctor was present. The bloke dressed in drag as Julia with a pinocchio nose immediately shed his costume and came forward

    There were chants, mainly “No Carbon Tax” “Liar, liar…” and at one point, yes “Ditch the Witch”. Perhaps most disturbingly of all for the Prime Minister, thousands of extremists chanted “Election, election… “

    When it ended the Federal police stood in a line in front of Parliament House with their trousers tucked into their steel capped boots just so. A man in a Hawaiian shirt went up to the tallest one and tried to get him to join the revolution. While the Feds were distracted, several extremists with cardigans and fold-up chairs slipped through the cordon and headed towards the gift shop to buy snow domes.

    Back at the bus station in Sydney I saw a woman talking to someone I took to be her daughter and a grandchild of about five.
    She told her daughter, “They called us extremists!”

    I’m not embarassed by any sign at the Canberra rally, in fact I’m proud

    00

  • #
    crakar24

    Val,

    In a way we have brought this upon ourselves. When was the last time Australian’s got angry with our government? Probably not since the Vietnam protests have the Australian public gathered together to protest in such a way.

    The liars in government know this so it is easy for them to call the protesters names (which in itself show how desperate they are) so they think that the rest of Australians will think they are extremists and the like.

    But where they fail to grasp reality can be shown in the poll numbers above and all the other polls. I did not attend the rallies but i agree with the need to protest so by definition the liars in gvernment are calling me an extremist as well.

    This will be their greatest downfall and an end to this tyranny is only a matter of time. I do not foresee an Egyptian moment here in Australia but i do see the government collapsing similar to NSW state labor. They will hang on for as long as they can and do as much damage as they can.

    Remember the last act of any corrupt government is to loot the people, we have seen this happen in Europe with austerity measures and it will happen here.

    00

  • #
    July

    Food for thought guys that just might give you raging indigestion.
    [snip]
    how is your indigestion? ED

    00

  • #
    Roy Hogue

    I was wondering earlier as I read Binny’s post at #1, what would happen if we could offer anyone on the AGW bandwagon who wanted it a safe easy way to jump off. There must be a lot of players who regret what they’re stuck with by now. How many would desert the ship? From the number of well known names who have already renounced their former position I’d bet it’s not a trivial size group.

    00

  • #
    MattB

    David in #17.

    WTF are you on about? Blockhead.

    “Sorry – but MattB is on his way to Columbo Sri Lanka to watch the NZ Blackcaps play Sri Lanka in the World Cup (more CO2 wastage for self satisfaction).

    If the Greens pass this CO2 TAX – there will be windfarms all over Australia – the result is worse than gas or coal power stations. See for the facts on these wind farms.

    MattB – are you staying at the Hilton Columbo? MattB – how many grams of CO2 is sequestered by a cricket bat to justify your visit? JB – you had better reply – because MattB is not here to respond to the Australian rejection of Carbon Tax. OH – and July doesn’t exist? Hi Luke! Come and play?

    NZ may win the World Cup & have Carbon Tax – but sorry – Australia won’t have either.”

    00

  • #
    MattB

    Wes in #35 “faux outrage”

    Its Fauxtrage (TM)

    00

  • #
    val majkus

    crakar24 to my mind this ‘fauxtrage’ on behalf of the Govt and left wing media (thanks MattB) is typical of this Govt and the MSM media rather than being that the Govt is not accustomed to seeing citizen outrage
    It’s the ‘look over there’ diversionary action; this Govt is expert at blaming others; what they’re not expert at is managing in a business like fashion
    Oh to have the country managed by adults again

    00

  • #
    pat

    how delusional can u get?

    28 March: Herald-Sun: Michael Harvey, Matthew Johnston: Julia Gillard says carbon tax not to blame in NSW Labor’s election loss
    After one of the biggest landslides in Australian political history, new NSW premier Barry O’Farrell claimed Ms Gillard’s proposed carbon tax was a significant factor in his win.
    Opposition Leader Tony Abbott told parliament this morning that the “toxic” proposal had played a big role in outgoing premier Kristina Keneally’s demise.
    But Ms Gillard said voters had decided “a long time ago” to dump the Keneally government…
    http://www.heraldsun.com.au/news/more-news/nsw-independents-feel-heat-over-support-for-prime-minister-julia-gillard/story-fn7x8me2-1226029077552

    if the carbon tax played no part, then the Greens would have gained considerably from disaffected Labor votes.

    the media downplaying the role the carbon tax played is precisely what was expected.

    00

  • #
    The Loaded Dog

    July @44

    Reasoned, logical, internally consistent thinking is so at odds with religion with all it’s blatant contradictions.

    Absolutely, and as you’re a true believer in the doctrine of the Church of Climatology you just scored yourself an own goal…

    Well done!

    00

  • #
    July

    Like [snip] I rest my case.

    00

  • #
    John from NZ

    July:
    March 28th, 2011 at 11:33 am

    We can’t forget this one either can we:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EpGH02DtIws

    The difference with your ‘quote’ from Palin & the one above is that Palin never actually said it or anything like it, and only someone incredibly naive or downright dishonest would state that she did – see if you can find evidence of it.

    00

  • #
    July

    [snip]
    July do you get the hint?
    [ED]

    00

  • #
    Robert Gay

    Gail Kellie the CEO of Westpac Bank has her name all over this carbon tax facade. One wonders what is the conection ?. Look deep and you will find the truth.

    00

  • #
    John from NZ

    Sure it was a joke, July. Nice attempt at covering yourself when caught out lying (again), but I don’t think anyone believes you. At least she’s smart enough to see through the AGW conjob brigade which is more than can be said for you – duhh!? If she’s dumb but smarter than you, then where does that leave you?

    00

  • #
    Macha

    July @41 ( and Matt B),

    So this is purely a political site is it?
    Maybe, because thats where a lot of topical things are happening right now. But its also got some handy science references too, like this one.

    http://hockeyschtick.blogspot.com/2011/03/geophysicist-explains-how-sun-controls.html

    Its a pretty plain speaking account but I never seem to read any replies from either of you two – other than a non-scientific name-calling contribution.

    I dare you to come up with some decent scientific article that supports your views.

    00

  • #
    David

    Hi JULY?
    The biggest farm in Australia ? YUP!
    Hi MattyH?
    Fauxwt… – there you go again?
    Hi LOWLOT and then we have a three ring circus!
    or is it Laugh Out Loud @ What Others Think?

    My you all get angry quickly – but its a beautiful day!

    00

  • #
    MattB

    Of course you don’t.. especially not compared to your link to hockeyschtick:)

    00

  • #
    Macha

    @62….because?!!!
    i.e. Put up or shut up.

    00

  • #
    Bulldust

    I would suggest not feeding the troll folks. Snapping at the rude remarks only plays into the troll’s hands. The troll’s sole intent is to bring down the tone of the debate at the site. So far that has succeeded. To a troll it matters not what the truth is, as long as the thread degrades into a mud-slinging match then they have won.

    00

  • #
    David

    Wind Turbines – they are using helicopters to keep them turning? Dirty polluting machines!

    http://www.epaw.org/multimedia.php?lang=en&article=s1

    00

  • #
    MattB

    There are so many of them though Bulldust it is hard not to snap sometimes. Macha, David, Loaded Dog, Percy, Crackar…

    00

  • #
    MattB

    “I dare you to come up with some decent scientific article that supports your views.”

    Do you type that with a straight face?

    00

  • #
    Macha

    What I couldn’t believe was said in a straight face came from this “committee”.

    http://www.geelongadvertiser.com.au/article/2011/03/27/250401_news.html

    I watched the show on TV.
    “Unequivacal” and “no debate” were the words that came out.

    Unbelievable alarmism!.

    00

  • #
    crakar24

    MattB,

    I am flattered to have made your top 5 list but were is Eddy?

    July(a) (pronounced Joolyar)in 48

    Lets look at the other side of the coin shall we?

    Al Gore (ex politician) made a movie about AGW, in this movie he got the ice core data arse about and claimed CO2 led Temp. He flies around the world producing CO2 as he goes to promote trading schemes to tackle AGW through his very own companies.

    Do you see a problem here?

    Tim Flannery (mammologist not a climate scientist) has gone on record in 2007 stating Agw will lead to perpetual droughts , his predictions were the main driving force behind state governments building desal plants……….and then the rains came…………..which of course he blamed on AGW, oh and he pushes geothermal energy as hard as he can and by coincedence is a major shareholding in these companies.

    Do you see a problem here?

    Ross Garnaut (economist, not a climate science) is now the chief climate advisor to Gillard, Garnaut’s gold mines in Ok Tedi and other areas throughout Papua New guinea spew toxic waste into the ocean every day and yet here he is telling you about your pollution.

    Do you see a problem here?

    Hansen (the closest thing so far to a climate scientist) changes temperature records from 100 years ago……….

    Do you see a problem here?

    Santer (fraudster) ignores thermometer readings and uses GPS data to measure the temperature

    Any problem here?

    Briffa, Mann et all (fraudsters again) delete proxy data as it differs from the temp record, stitch said temp data onto proxy record and pass it off as all proxy data to hide a decline in the proxy record which cast doubt over the entire record, this is scientific fraud but you dont see a problem here either do you.

    and the list goes on……………

    I have never fed a troll, i assume they like bananas just like baboons but this is all i have i hope you like it.

    00

  • #
    Bruce of Newcastle

    July #45 & #48

    Forget your pseudo-science and argue the tax issues.

    When are you going to address the science I’ve given you, from prestigious scientific journals, and peer reviewed? It shows that global warming is minimal from human causes, is self limiting and decidedly uncatastrophic. Therefore the carbon tax is fraudulent, unfair and unjustifiable because there is no CAGW to stop.

    Do you realise the danger that the ALP and the Greens are in? People are not stupid, they hate it when they at last find out they are being spun. Unless the science supports the ALP position it will fail and the ALP will suffer the electoral consequences. As in NSW.

    00

  • #
    connolly

    Napoleon once remarked to one of his generals at the battle of Austerlitz “Never interrupt your enemy when he is making a mistake”. The ALP has learnt nothing from the NSW debacle. Consequently the electoral punishment of their job destruction warmists policies will be equally as devastating in the next Federal election, particulalry in the steel making and coal producing regions. The regions were the ALP heartland. Well they stopped beating for the ALP when Gillard, Albanese and Combet decided to go for broke and impose the carbon dioxide tax. If people reckon it was ugly last Saturday wait till the nwxt Federal poll. As a famous draft dodger once said “Bring it on!”

    00

  • #
    The Loaded Dog

    MattB @ 66

    There are so many of them though Bulldust it is hard not to snap sometimes. Macha, David, Loaded Dog, Percy, Crackar…

    …Sigh…

    Well can you try a little harder MattB?

    In the interests of civility at least?

    I’ll try not to ridicule you as much even though it gives me great pleasure.

    But in return can you at least try not to give us so much material to ridicule? I mean…it’s just too much of a temptation, and honestly I haven’t got the strength to read such ranting without responding with ridicule.

    00

  • #
    connolly

    MattB @ 66
    Matt its all over old son. It was always about politics and the political tide has changed decisively. The warmists had their opportunity after Rudds election and dithered and lost the opportunity. Its all over. The electoral slaughter of Federal ALP in their heartland electorates is gonna happen. The faithful are waiting with basenball bats for the Federal poll. Give it up. Its dead.

    00

  • #
    crakar24

    Bruce you are wasting your time with that approach i suggest another.

    This is one of the Labor scare campaign talking points

    “Climate change will see the average snow season contract by between 85 per cent and 96 per cent by 2050, and disappear by the end of the century.”

    But then we have this:

    27 Mar 11 – “This March has been history in the making,” says the Alpine Meadows, Lake Tahoe, California, website.

    “This has officially been marked as the snowiest month of March on record, with a month-to-date snow accumulation total of 201 inches at the base lodge. The previous March record was set in 2006 with 197 inches.”

    With a total of 312 inches (26 feet, or 7.9 meters) of snow on the upper mountain – and counting – the ski season has been extended to May 15.

    Now the trolls here will respond with “But Gillard was talking about Australian ski resorts”, this is true but it is called ANTHROPOGENIC GLOBAL WARMING after all so if Aust ski fields are to decline then so should they all.

    The Trolls might also respond with “But this is just weather not climate”, this is also true however the record was recently broken in 2006 so this shows us we have had 5 years of weather causing higher than usual snow falls.

    The Trolls might then respond with “ah yes but climate is 30 years not 5″ and this is where the problem is. You can produce as much emperical evidence you like to show the trolls are stupid but you cannot produce emperical evidence of an event that takes place in the future. Sadly the trolls view models as emperical evidence but even sadder they believe the models can tell the future.

    00

  • #
    July

    I think I might have touched a nerve with [the moderator] ED Make friendly on topic posts, without insults.

    00

  • #
    The Loaded Dog

    Hows the lobotomy working out for you anyway July?

    00

  • #
    David

    July – big mistake -

    You started the sentence with “I think…”

    Quick – you’ve got 821 imaginary trees to plant today on your 30,000 hectare farm (Green Acres)

    Bye July

    00

  • #
    Bruce of Newcastle

    crakar24 #74

    Yeah, I know. I suspect about half the ALP MP’s know the talking points are a load of codswallop, at least those who have an internet connection and have looked at the science rather than listen just to the CAGW religious proselytes.

    I’m just sad that the ALP has tied itself to the train tracks and stuck a bag over its head. Well, if they get run over then I’ll have at least warned ‘em.

    00

  • #
    MattB

    bruce – thing is that the Libs are warmists too with the same emissions reductions targets, and direct action costs more than carbon pricing according to the economists. Abbott will fork out a lot of cash and it doesn’t grow on trees – it will be your taxes.

    00

  • #
    crakar24

    Speaking of trees MattB

    http://www.thegwpf.org/best-of-blogs/2707-hide-the-decline-new-revelations.html

    Can you justify this obvious case of scientific fraud?

    Please try and defend this, though i know you will ignore or respond with phrases from the good book.

    00

  • #
    allen mcmahon

    Matt you have to admit that this new bunch make us old hands look pretty tame and reasonable. If this keeps up I may just have to join the dark side.

    00

  • #
    Damian Allen

    One of our regular Warmist Contributers “MattB” actually stated the following admission in post (199) of this discussion

    http://joannenova.com.au/2011/03/thousands-of-angry-ordinary-australians-turn-up-and-alarmist-smears-begin/comment-page-5/#comment-244212

    …………….
    The words of MattB;-

    “Therefore we can only logically conclude that there is No Proof, beyond a shadow of a doubt, that mankind is responsible for global warming”

    THAT’S WHAT I SAID!!!
    THAT’S THE ANSWER!
    ……………….

    That response was in relation to my challenge at post (121) of the same discussion

    My Words (and challenge):-
    Simple question for you characters “MattB”, “John Brookes” etc..

    Please post at least one Peer Reviewed Scientific Paper which PROVES, Beyond A Shadow Of A Doubt, that mankind is responsible for global warming.

    I await your responses with baited breath…….
    …………

    Well there you have it!

    The warmists admit that there is No Proof and thus No Justification for a carbon DIOXIDE (Plant Food) Tax!!

    I rest my case.

    00

  • #
    connolly

    Damien @ 82
    Poor old MattB has played a shocker here over the last few days. And he scores . . . o dear own goal!
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C2Sj80qcbmE&feature=related

    00

  • #
    Bruce of Newcastle

    MattB #79

    Yes I know that some Libs are believers of CAGW. I can’t think for other people, I can only think for myself. And the science says that CO2 is a weak greenhouse gas when feedbacks are taken into account. The net 2XCO2 value (0.6 C) is about half the theory value. That is the message of the ERBE and CERES data. No one has falsified those findings, not for want of trying. I do models for a living, they look pretty but are proverbially full of dead mens’ bones. I think I can take direct measurement over model interpolation any day, especially after the clinical trashing Ray Spencer gave the IPCC models in his paper.

    You can’t be political about science. It is either right or wrong, no matter how pollies might want to spin it. In this case the carbon tax and the spin accompanying it are execrable.

    00

  • #

    BTW they are trying to have a pro rally, see facebook event

    Belmore Park
    Sydney, Australia
    11am 2nd April.

    00

  • #
    MattB

    “obvious case of scientific fraud” I dunno I don’t kind Claimate Audit to be honest… I’d sooner call it mischevious/misguided misinterpretation by that site rather than fraud.

    00

  • #
    manfred listing

    Hi folx- two happy thoughts – The Canberra Times today reported that earth hour saved an amount of CO2 emissions equivalent to taking “almost seven cars off the road for a year”.

    And for the warmists- earth hour was a howling success in North Korea- hardly a light on anywhere.

    See- something for everyone!

    00

  • #
    MattB

    Crakar, on Spencer, I note that the top tier of climate scientists have had a go so why take my word for it:
    http://www.realclimate.org/index.php/archives/2008/05/how-to-cook-a-graph-in-three-easy-lessons/

    http://bbickmore.wordpress.com/2011/03/01/roy-spencers-great-blunder-part-3/ (see also part 1 and part 2)

    00

  • #
    allen mcmahon

    This thread went off topic when david @18 made a somewhat moronic comment to MattB, and others were quick to jump in. Show some respect for Jo, she puts an incredible amount of time and effort into her posts and if you cannot keep on subject shut up.Remember it is better to be thought a fool than to open your mouth and remove all doubt.

    00

  • #

    I just did an interview with an honest reporter who is doing a story on the Carbon Farming Initiative (CFI — announced the day after the nationwide protests).

    Of course, we cannot comment on CFI without going back to basics:

    The hypothesis was: Human emissions of CO2 are causing dangerous global warming. (That’s been disproven with evidence.)

    CO2 has now turned into C: Government is proposing a tax on Carbon.

    By their own extension, a tax on carbon is a tax on pollution.

    Of course, C is not equal to CO2, and yet, the carbon farming initiative really IS about CARBON in soil, not CO2!

    So while all of us have used carbon as a short form for Carbon Dioxide, Government is truly treating C = CO2. It’s truly phenomenal, and they’ve been given a bye on it.

    The carbon farming initiative was created by Government to bring naturally sceptical agriculturalists (who have been dealing with changing climate since the beggining of time) into the “believers in the original hypothesis” fold.

    It is political vote-buying. But any farmer who plays that game will go the way of those who invested in insulation businesses on the back of the pink batts scheme. The Government is playing King-Maker with the CFI. But he who can make kings can also make paupers. Buyer beware. Or in this case, seller (of soul) beware.

    00

  • #
    MattB

    No Janet.

    1) CO2 causeing warming is not disproven with evidence.
    2) re: C or CO2 – read the 2 year old skeptic handbook, even Jo uses them interchangably.
    3) Tax on carbon is tax on greenhouse gas emissions. I’ll not be taxed for a new tennis racket (other than energy that went in to it) or a pencil.
    4) The Carbon in soil is about taking CO2 from the air, converting it to carbon in soil (or preventing release fromsoil as CO2) so that more C is locked away in the soils rather than in the air. Agriculture has a big potential role and there is no reason they should not not get some recognition.

    In fact – the whole concept of storing carbon in soil forms one of the significant components of Tony Abbott’s Direct Action carbon plan. If I can quote from the Liberal policy:

    “Direct action on soil carbons will be the major plank of our strategy, supported by other direct action measures that will reduce CO2 emissions by 5 per cent by 2020 based on 1990 levels and deliver significant environmental outcomes – without the need for a great big new tax.” Source: http://www.liberal.org.au/~/media/Files/Policies%20and%20Media/Environment/The%20Coalitions%20Direct%20Action%20Plan%20Policy.ashx

    00

  • #
    The Loaded Dog

    keith @85

    BTW they are trying to have a pro rally, see facebook event

    More tax me rally’s?

    WHAT UTTER FOOLS….

    These imbeciles can’t wait to be parted from their money and are even gathering together with common purpose to demand governments take it from them.

    00

  • #
    MattB

    I note also that the Lib policy is inundated with the word “Carbon” stand alone.

    00

  • #
    MattB

    p.s. the Walk for Warming regularly attracts 50,000+ nationwide.

    00

  • #
    MattB

    err… walk against warming excuse my slip:)

    00

  • #
    David

    Allen

    MattyB can look after himself – he’s excellent at comments – see next article of Jo’s?

    I am a fool – so don’t pick on me please Allen.

    The people have decided against this CO2 TAX. Thanks to this and many other BLOG’s

    00

  • #
    Mark

    MattB #86

    No doubt you will soon dazzle the regulars of ClimateAudit with your brilliance Mattyboy. Go on, show us you can do it. Put Steve McIntyre in his place Matt, we wait with baited breath!

    00

  • #
    MattB

    I only have so much time in a day Mark. Although it seems all I do is post on this blog I do actually have work to do, and contributing meaningfully to ClimateAudit would take a lot more preparation and reading to be quite frank. I like hanging out with, and excuse the terminology, climate cranks and nutcases (and I do mean that in a friendly way) than on the hard core science sites. I am interested in the science, and like to think I understand a fair whack of it, but what I enjoy interacting with are the characters. I do dabble at WUWT but I also like the local flavour here.

    00

  • #
    The Loaded Dog

    You’re too kind Matt.

    Hey, I’m sure the feelings of crankhood and nutcasery are mutual.

    00

  • #
    val majkus

    Well after all my promoting of Gavin Atkins ABC article the ABC have come up with this article by Mungo McCullam
    It’s the same group of ‘extremists’ that Gavin accompanied on the bus to Canberra
    http://www.abc.net.au/unleashed/45688.html
    but what different eyes

    here’s just one para

    that Tony Abbott is raving ratbag, a ranting bigot whose ignorance of science is matched only by his lack of manners.

    The howling mob who surrounded him at the mini-rally outside Parliament House last Wednesday undoubtedly included some who were genuinely concerned about the impact a carbon tax might have on their household budgets and the wider economy, but the ones making the noise – including the majority of the speakers – came straight from la-la land.’

    that’s the end of the quote; all I can say is ‘what’s he smoking?’ What Mungo’s talking about bears no resemblance to what Gavin is reporting

    00

  • #
    MattB

    No doubt loaded dog, and I take no offence at that:)

    00

  • #
    The Loaded Dog

    No doubt loaded dog, and I take no offence at that:)

    Aww good on ya Matt. None (specifically) intended…

    00

  • #
    Bruce of Newcastle

    MattB #88

    Matt – I suggest you actually read Spencer & Braswell 2010. I had to read it 3 times (I’m slow) and also read the explanatory notes on his blog, which I suspect is due to the warmist reviewer trying it make it as hard to understand and read as possible. For example Spencer was clearly not allowed to divide 3.7 by 6, so he does so on the blog.

    The satellite data is quite clear. Now if I was RealClimate who felt justly threatened by real data which makes me look like incompetent (at best), then I just might want to slander the author as hard as I could. Well that is their choice. I prefer the data. So for example I checked the data 2 different ways using the available long term temperature records, and the value for 2XCO2 checks out fine. The values obtained via the IPCC models do not fit the data. In case you don’t like the idea of calculating sensitivity using the temperature datasets you can look at slide 44 of the recent presentation (6 Mb PDF) from Stephen Schwartz.

    You might note that the two links you give (and the links in those articles) have nothing to do with S&B 2010, which is about direct measurement using CERES data – no models, except for the IPCC ones which all fail to match the satellite.

    Furthermore several other studies find 2XCO2 even lower.

    Sorry mate, the world isn’t going to fry, and a carbon tax won’t do anything except make us all uselessly poorer, the Chinese richer and Ms Gillard out of a job.

    00

  • #
    Mark

    MattB #98

    I’ll take that comment as a “Dirty Harry” moment MattB.

    “A man’s gotta know his limitations”.

    00

  • #
    MattB

    Indeed. Unfortunately a lot of scientists think they have my kind of people skills and stumble in to trouble.

    00

  • #
    Alexander K

    Matt B, your reply to janet intrigued me; you state that there is no evidence that disproves ‘CO2 causes warming’, but if there has been no warming globally for at least the last decade and CO2ppm is going up, this tends to negate your statement. By your reasoning, the temps should be showing a strong warming trend and that’s not happening.

    00

  • #

    [...] energy programs over the past 15 years and found the result was mostly negligible…" 130,000 Australians say No Carbon Tax, Greens flop, Labor issues biblical scare campaign « JoNo… . __________________ . …just some thoughts from a nomadic plebeian Bio – [...]

    00

  • #
    MattB

    If you were ignoring everything else that has a role in the climate then you may have a point Alexander.

    00

  • #

    Matt B, I’m only interested in truth. I’m quite happy to set Liberals as well as Laborgreens straight. :-)

    1) Alexander K @106 took care of point one (and nicely, too, thanks!).
    2) Jo has always said that it’s easier to say ‘carbon’ than ‘carbon dioxide.’ But she’s not the one pushing for an economy-devastating tax on either.
    3) You say, “Tax on carbon is tax on greenhouse gas emissions.” Does this mean that you agree that it’s really a tax on CO2? I presume so, and your history shows that you know it’s really about CO2.
    4) Perhaps you can take us through a little more in-depth science on this taking C out of the air and sticking it into soil, just for the exercise. But because CO2 emissions are not a problem, it doesn’t really matter if we invent things to do what you claim is the goal. It does matter, though, how much R&D is diverted into this assinine undertaking.

    Under a carbon (sic) tax, regardless of those few who sell their souls by cozying up to Government, agriculture will pay more than it’s compensated (assuming that producers continue to produce here). There is no such thing as exemption under this tax. Everyone will be negatively affected. A few fat cats will be benevolently compensated. That’s politics.

    It’s certainly not science, and it has nothing to do with the environment.

    Cheers,
    Janet

    00

  • #
    Damian Allen

    This should be on banners in any rallies that support this TREASONOUS carbon DIOXIDE tax………..

    “What do we want? More Taxes. When do we want them? NOW.”

    00

  • #
    kevin moore

    Arguing with MATTB only crowds out valid arguement making it take longer to find after sifting out the nuisance noise that he obviously intentionally makes.

    Ignore him!

    00

  • #
    connolly

    The overall swing against Labor in the NSW state election was 17%. In the steel and coal region of the Illawarra across the region the swing away from the ALP was 21%. Across the manufacturing and coal regions of NSW the anti-Labor swing was also 21%. In the manufacturing based seats Labor lost 14 seats, down from 27 to 13. But still the ALP in Canberra refuses to acknowledge the role of the carbon dioxide tax in the swing.
    http://www.theaustralian.com.au/national-affairs/alp-deserters-spooked-by-carbon-tax/story-fn59niix-1226029693902

    00

  • #
    1DandyTroll

    Why on earth are there still numb nuts down under, equal that for US, that want a Carbon tax?

    Take a look at what it has brought EU? EU have taxed carbon use for decades, and it was all supposed to get, in no particualr order:

    less sulphur emissions
    less carbon monoxide emissions
    less particulate pollutants
    less soot
    less CO2 emissions

    less rich people driving big engines
    less people driving
    less trucks hauling cargo
    less buss’ hauling people

    less people going by planes even.

    All that to save us from

    acid rain
    road side forest death
    lung deseases
    cancer even
    cheap transportation
    cheaper food and goods
    cheap electricity
    more time for family (because trains was to be so much faster)
    better health

    and, of course, less global warming, less melting glaciers, less rising sea levels, et cetera ad nauseam.

    The natural progressive development of engines got us more effective engines with less emissions. The tress along side the highways were very happy, until they all got cut down to broaden the highways of course. The development of the medical profession took care of lung deceases, which there hasn’t exactly been less of. And acid rain and great forest and lake death are apparently the volcanoes doing.

    We never got less tax’s with each less bad variable that was “overcome”, instead more tax’s. And when that didn’t work created new carbon based tax’s. And general energy tax’s, so now we even pay tax for clean energy from hydro plants and even windmills, oh, and we even pay an extra tax for transporting the energy. We also pay a energy tax on top of the carbon tax, and of course VAT, as in value added tax, on top of that.

    That’s what we truly got. We didn’t get:

    new and approved railroads
    more new and approved high speed trains
    more slow trains
    less air time travel
    less buss fares
    less cars
    less trucks
    less pollution (what with the amount of vehicles kind of got up and up)
    cheap electricity
    cheap heating
    cheap gas
    cheap water
    clean marine habitats
    clean lakes and rivers

    better vistas (who wants to look at two towers from a nuclear power plant when you can look at hundreds of windmills instead?)

    more protected clean forests (some stuff just has to give to save the planet with windmills.)

    Yet it is still more expensive, generally, to go by train than by car. It’s even cheaper to fly than going by train. On top of that it is even cheaper to haul goods by trucks than train unless the goods happen to go on the 10-20% of the rail road system that has been maintained for the last 25 years.

    Oh yeah, and in EU there’s still more taxed to high heavens coal fired power plants being built than so called clean energy. And one has to wonder how much cleaner the coal fired plants’s output could be if they didn’t have to redistribute tax wealth to hippie approved clean madness?

    00

  • #
    macha

    here’s an oldie but a goodie for the warmists to read and hopefully alight is turned on that focusing solely on CO2 to control climate is futile .

    http://climaterealists.com/index.php?id=1562&linkbox=true&position=5

    00

  • #
    crakar24

    A follow up to Bruce in 70 and myself in 74,

    “23 Mar 11 – Glasgow’s eight inches of new snow on Wednesday pushed the town’s record-breaking seasonal snowfall total to more than 105 inches.

    That’s far above the old record of 70.7 inches, set in 2003-04.

    The old record was broken almost two months ago, by Feb. 1.

    “Every place has been above normal, in some cases way above normal,” said Don Simonsen, a National Weather Service meteorologist in Glasgow. “But not quite so much in counties south of the Missouri River.”

    That makes sense. During the last ice age, most areas south of the Missouri River remained unglaciated.

    Another storm is on the way.”

    http://www.iceagenow.com/Glasgow_Montana_shatters_snowfall_record.htm

    “28 Mar 11 – That number is growing by 20 ships every day, the St. Petersburg seaport administration said today.

    A total of 11 icebreakers, including the Taymyr-class Vaigach nuclear powered icebreaker, have been sent to help release the stranded ships.

    Only seven ships are currently sailing through the area, moving through ice channels hewed by the icebreakers. The rest have been unable to plow through the one-meter-thick ice floes.

    The Gulf of Finland has been iced over for more than a month.

    Some of these vessels are huge, looking to be more than 12 stories tall.”

    http://en.rian.ru/russia/20110328/163243727.html

    Through complicated linguistic gymnastics some people claim this is all caused by global warming.

    00

  • #
    MattB

    Janet I confess that the particular mechanisms of improving carbon retention in soils is not my cup of tea. All I’ll say is it doesn;t seem particularly controversial… from low-till agriculture, tree planting, something called bio-char that I honestly don’t know enough about. It is a bit like tree planting in agricultural regions… I personally hgave not seen evidence of success, but at least it is good for salinity/biodiversity etc. I’ll just finish by noting that both sides of politics think it is a winner, including the greens and nationals, and no-one every bleats out skeptical papers demonising it. So I doubt it has much downside, but I doubt it will solve the problem. I don;t think it can be upscaled for example to do much beyond the 5% as per current targets… It would be lovely to think we could change land management practices and slash CO2 emissions by 60%.

    As for carbon… of course it is CO2 (equivalent – so all GHGs really). I’m not a marketing type but the transition to carbon in the lingo pervades all sides of the debate. Are we really that stupid that we can’t just use the full name? I guess so?

    00

  • #
    connolly

    MattB@ 116
    “I don;t think it can be upscaled for example to do much beyond the 5% as per current targets”

    Yep it might not work. The Gillard/Brown decarbonization targets are an impossibility.The Australian targets imply that Australia would have to achieve the 2006 emissions intensity of Japan by 2016 for a 25% reduction target, by 2018 for a 15% reduction target or 2020 for a 5% reduction target. As we know Japan has the highest usage of nuclear power after the United States and France. Pielke has done the numbers and concludes:

    To summarize, the annual rates of decarbonization of the
    Australian economy implied by the bottom-up and top-down
    analyses suggest rates that are beyond those achieved by any
    major economy in recent decades over sustained periods of
    time. Japan achieved a rate of decarbonization of about 4.4%
    from 1980 to 1986 but was unable to sustain that high rate,
    seeing it subsequently drop to closer to 1% per year (Pielke,
    2009b). In proposing to do that which has never been done,
    Australia is joining the United Kingdom and Japan (and others,
    including the European Union and United States) with
    aggressive emissions reductions targets and timetables that
    appear to be fanciful at best. Australia’s targets imply a level of
    decarbonization about that of Japan’s (in 2006) by 2020, or the
    equivalent level of effort to building and putting into service
    dozens of new nuclear power plants or many thousands of
    solar thermal plants.”

    http://sciencepolicy.colorado.edu/admin/publication_files/2010.36.pdf

    00

  • #

    It is those so called “Greens” who need to examine their own motives and erronious thinking. They must realise that they will be held accountable in the future for any decisions which they make and which prove to be detrimental to the Australian Economy, Environment, and the Australian Taxpayer.

    Clearly it is those “Greens” who are in denial of the FACTS about carbon di-oxide gas. They are made from CO2 gas, and so are you and me, and every living organism on the planet Earth. ALL life on Earth exists because of CO2 gas. We are ALL carbon based lifeforms. Reductions in CO2 gas in the atmosphere will lead to decreased crop yields, and hence less food for every living herbivore and carnivore.

    CO2 is not a dangerous gas, nor is it significant in terms of regulating the temperature of this planet. The gas is less than one half of one tenth of one percent of the atmosphere, by volume. Most CO2 gas is dissolved in the World’s oceans, and it’s concentration is controlled by the temperature of these seas. The warmer the sea temperature, the more CO2 effervesces into the atmosphere, and the colder the sea temperature, the more CO2 gas becomes dissolved into the water. These are the true facts.

    For further details and Hundreds of Lectures, and Feature length videos about these, and related matters, as well as dozens of arcane videos, audios, books and other materials, visit the website of The Fraudulent Climate of Hokum Science. Click the name “Axel” above to go there now.

    00

  • #
    theRealUniverse

    Its not always i disagree with the ACSC
    But here its goes..
    they put this:

    Average reduction in Australia’s emissions
    Decrease in the temperature from now to 2050
    in 2050 due to Australia’s reductions

    0 % 0.0000 °C
    5 % 0.0007 °C
    10 % 0.0015 °C
    20 % 0.0031 °C
    50 % 0.0077 °C
    100 % 0.0154 °C

    My numbers

    0 % 0.0000 °C
    5 % 0.0000 °C
    10 % 0.0000 °C
    20 % 0.0000 °C
    50 % 0.0000 °C
    100 % 0.0000 °C

    A mute point but as there is NO green house effect then there’s NO temp increase.

    But even with their figures its beyond physical measurement.

    Yes CO2 reduction is meaningless futility.

    00

  • #
    crakar24

    You dont want it to be a mute point because no one could hear you, a moot point would be much better. :-) )))

    00

  • #
    theRealUniverse

    Yes thanks crakar24 typo haha

    00

  • #
    kevin moore

    If it wasn’t for the greenhouse the answer would be blowing in the wind.

    00

  • #
    Hugh

    The Prime Minister lied to us all so that we would vote for her Government by telling us that NO Government she lead would ever inflict a carbon tax on the Australian people. No more lies PM. Take the question of a Carbon Tax back to the people by calling a new election so that we, the people, can tell you if we want your MONSTER NEW TAX ON EVERYTHING! But you will not will you PM, because you know we do not support this rediculous and unjust tax that will badly hurt our economy and our all our people.

    00

  • #

    To anyone who believes that our government needs to find other avenues of reducing carbon emissions without directly targeting everyday families. Then please, visit thefirstchange.blogspot.com for your say!

    This website contains an online petition to demand our government take action on climate change without directly targeting its people and way of life. Please feel free to post your story and/or feedback within the blog. It’s time we made our government understand the necessity of researching bio-fuels and technology to overcome climate change!!

    00

  • #
  • #

    [...] 130,000 Australians say No Carbon Tax, Greens flop, Labor issues biblical scare campaign [...]

    00