JoNova

A science presenter, writer, speaker & former TV host; author of The Skeptic's Handbook (over 200,000 copies distributed & available in 15 languages).



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The fickle nature of a fake free market

Carbon prices have plummeted in the US.

(So they are that much closer to their true value…)

The Regional Greenhouse Gas Initiative sold 40.7 million permits for $1.88 each, 19 cents lower than the last auction held in March and 2 cents above the minimum allowable bid, the cap-and-trade program said on its website today. Each permit in the carbon trading program for power plants from Maryland to Maine represents one ton of carbon dioxide.

Why are prices so low? On the one hand, people have doubts about Congress creating a national market for them. Fair enough. But on the other hand, “Tim Cheung, an analyst with Bloomberg New Energy Finance said: “Demand for power hasn’t increased with the economic recovery...”

Since people aren’t buying as much electricity there are spare “permits to pollute” all over the place. But it begs the question of what kind of economic recovery it is, if it doesn’t need … power?

Can I sell you some air over China?

Meanwhile some NGOs are waking up to the scammability of permits for invisible unverifiable goods. CDMWatch was set up by a group of NGO’s and has found the firms that sell the carbon emission offsets are lying about how much they produce, so they can sell more offsets. Who would have guessed?

HFC-23 is 12,000 times as potent as CO2, making it an ultra powerful greenhouse gas, and a hot favourite for companies who want to “destroy greenhouse gases” and get paid for it. The obvious end point in this market being that the easiest most efficient greenhouse gas to destroy is the one you didn’t make in the first place.

HFC offsets account for more than half of the 420 million CERs issued to date by the U.N.’s climate change secretariat. No one is quite sure how many are bogus, but the head of an environmental group Noe21 said it is “millions”.

CDM Watch cited two plants that cut HFC-23 generation when they were ineligible for crediting, and increased production once they could again claim CERs for its destruction. One even stopped HFC production when it was not allowed to request CERs, just to resume when it became eligible again, it added.

CDM Watch also revealed that many plants produced exactly the amount of HFC-23 they are allowed to claim credits for, even though chemical production was lower or varied annually.

Greens realize no one is playing “nice”

Meanwhile another NGO, Friends of the Earth, is starting to smell a rat, and thinks the developed countries are “not being sincere”. Apparently they (we) promised $30 billion to fast start some climate program (ask the UN) but FOE suspects that it’s just money that would have been spent anyhow and feels short-changed.

FoI chair, Nnimmo Bassey, said, “It seems developed countries are finally taking recycling seriously; they are recycling aid money and calling it ‘fresh’ money. But the world will not be fooled. Laundering aid money for climate change does not show leadership, it shows contempt.

He apparently hasn’t heard that Tuvalu is not sinking anymore, because he still thinks it’s severely threatened, and his colleague seems to be dealing with the new threat. The World Bank has far bigger plans than anyone guessed:

Karen Orenstein of the FoI in the US noted, “People in developing countries are already being forced to cope with the impacts of climate population that the World Bank is causing…

It’s like offering a signposted niche full of free treats and hoping the natural system won’t take advantage of it.

The saddest thing about this is that the NGO’s think that establishing a new UN fund would somehow work better and more honestly than all the other UN “managed” operations.

That some humans will succumb to temptation seems like the most obvious principle of psychology. Why do Green groups think that we can set up a global market trading goods that no one can see, no one uses, and which rely on “motivations” to even qualify for existence, and then expect that out of 6 billion odd souls, some people (like a few hundred thousand) won’t try every creative trick that human ingenuity can come up with to rort the system? It’s as if they don’t know anything about ecology. It’s like offering a signposted niche full of free treats and hoping the natural system won’t take advantage of it.

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55 comments to The fickle nature of a fake free market

  • #
    pattoh

    Just amazing!

    Somehow the dizziness of the self appointed, self deluded & self righteous do gooders & their fawning acolytes has blinded them to an uglier side of human nature!

    If it was not part of the psyche to take advantage of a situation & or dream of an easier ride though life, there would be hell of a lot less “industrial gambling” & the MSM/advertising industry with its fantasy land soap opera lifestyles would be hard put to find a platform to sell “soap”.


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  • #
    co2isnotevil

    What pisses me off is that there are rules against short trading carbon offsets. Why is it that warmists can profit, but not skeptics? I really wanted to be able to short them back when offsets were trading at peak prices. Also, it seems that the lower bound on the allowable price is about as anti-free market as you can get. I guess if the effective price drops below this artificial limit, demand will completely dry up. Maybe this is the next lesson in supply and demand that the anti-capitalist forces will need to learn.

    George


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  • #
    Joe Veragio

    Karen Orenstein of the FoI in the US noted, “People in developing countries are already being forced to cope with the impacts of climate population that the World Bank is causing…

    Did I get that right ? Climate population – Is that a typo. , conflation, or some new paradigm ?


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  • #
    Rereke Whaakaro

    We have been saying, over and over, “It’s a bubble, just like any other bubble”.

    Once you understand how financial bubbles work, it is obvious. The only difference here, is that it is being promoted by Governments and Government agencies that believe their own press releases.

    And so inexorably we move towards the final stages.

    The creators of the bubble have put their seed money in, and created the illusion of profits by forcing the price up.

    But, as the second tier investors start entering the market, the creators start to withdraw, taking their profits on the way. When done with skill (and these people are skilful) the original creators can totally leave the market with the price remaining intact, or even growing further. They make a fortune.

    The second tier investors have bought at the top of what they think is a rising market. So they hang in there in the belief (or hope) that the market will continue to rise. “Like, all ‘guvmints’, like, have to join, right?”. They take a bath.

    The really sad thing is that individuals in the Green movement are actually second tier investors in all of this. They don’t understand the way the real world works, and have become totally sold on their own hype. Ironic isn’t it.

    The only hope second tier investors have, is for governments to force compliance, because the free-market won’t do it.

    But democratic governments are well aware that the bubble is bursting and that it is an election looser. And the more the price goes down, the more of a looser it is.

    It will be interesting to see what reserve is placed on credits at the next auction, and whether that reserve is reached.


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  • #
    Grant

    OT but thought this was a good quote

    I’m not sure I want popular opinion on my side — I’ve noticed those with the most opinions often have the fewest facts.
    Bethania McKenstry


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  • #

    So, the carbon market is not doing so well? Perhaps the only reason they sold any permits at all is in the hopes that Obama and the democrats will be able to squeak a cap and trade bill after the elections through a lame duck congress? After all, if you are a dirt bag politician and you’ve lost your bid for reelection you might as well vote for the bill in exchange for something of value (e.g. a job with the Obama administration or a high paying job in the private sector).

    If the stealth cap and trade tax is passed it will kill the U.S. as well as the world economy. In addition, there will be less wealth generated and therefore less tax revenues. This will of course cause the budget deficit in the United States to grow. The U.S. can’t afford that. Alan Greenspan says that that the U.S. may soon reach its borrowing limit. See http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601010&sid=aga_wkgMEfDo. Wow! Remember, just prior to its demise the former Soviet Union’s GDP was approximately 60% of the United States’? When President Reagan began the arms build up to rebuild and revitalize the U.S. military the Soviets tried to match America’s effort and went bankrupt and belly up in the process. Unfortunately, the vast majority of politicians are not students of history and they tend to have the memory of a gnat!

    Hmmm… Should I start learning Mandarin or Cantonese? Either way, it will probably be a good idea to learn all that I can about the Chinese language, culture and customs! :(


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  • #
    Bulldust

    The cap and trade rorts are a classic lesson of how the most efficient economic solution in theory often fails miserably in translation to real life. It is indisputable that theory supports an ETS, but the implementation invariably leaves so many loopholes ready to be exploited because politicians are lobbied to do so. The fault is not in the theory, the fault is in the politics.

    So where does that leave us? This is why I said Abbott could outdo Rudd on the Green agenda by supporting direct intervention into emvironmental issues. He waved his hand in that general direction but never really pushed the issue. Had he proposed significant plans to overcome salinity issues, for example, and other environmental disasters he might have swung some of those Labor defectors that are now voting Green in the polls. But polls are fickle, so who knows?


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  • #
    pat

    guess there’s not a chance in hell of getting ‘carbon’ stories off the ABC!

    18 June: ABC: One carbon footprint in the grave
    It appears that even death will not release us from the problem of our carbon footprint, with the Sydney Catholic Church opening an environmentally friendly burial ground…
    The natural burial park in Sydney’s west will not have headstones, but people can find their family members using GPS technology.
    A GPS stick will be buried with the bodies and an electronic organiser is lent to visiting family members who want to find the exact location of the grave.
    It was opened by the New South Wales state minister for lands Tony Kelly.
    “We often hear about benefits of leaving a low carbon footprint during our lives,” he said.
    “Here we have the option to leave that low carbon footprint continuing on into the next life…
    On hand to bless the new burial ground was Bishop Julian Porteous, the auxiliary bishop of Sydney and the head of Catholic Earth Care…
    http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2010/06/18/2931241.htm?section=justin


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  • #
    pat

    cubby has written a novel here…read all:

    19 June: SMH: Ben Cubby: The true cost of our daily bread
    A few supermarkets in Australia, such as Aldi, have pledged to start labelling their products with an estimated carbon footprint by next year.
    The US giant Walmart plans to have ”eco-labels” on its products within the year. In Britain, Marks & Spencer followed Tesco and has a sticker on all products that arrive by air. Coca-Cola and Pepsi are working with England’s Carbon Trust to measure reductions in CO2 in their bottling process.
    What we eat makes up about one-third of the total greenhouse gas emissions from an average Australian household, according to the CSIRO. This means that, in theory, a solar panel on your roof could be cancelled out by a lifetime preference for imported Italian pasta and sun-dried tomatoes. A high protein diet can be a useful for losing weight, but eating beef three times a week means about 1.5 tonnes of methane emissions a year, the CSIRO says, which could be more than the entire food footprint of a dedicated vegetarian….
    http://www.smh.com.au/environment/the-true-cost-of-our-daily-bread-20100618-ymu1.html


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  • #
    pat

    how to stop this madness?

    19 June: Age: Adam Morton: Future is bleak for coal power
    (Victoria’s)Energy Minister Peter Batchelor said the government’s emissions strategy would be outlined in a ”landmark” climate change white paper and bill later this year. But he stressed a national carbon price was needed to encourage investment in clean energy…
    http://www.theage.com.au/victoria/future-is-bleak-for-coal-power-20100618-ymxy.html


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  • #
    Bruce of Newcastle

    Meanwhile, in similar vein, Anthony Watts likes our windmill:
    http://wattsupwiththat.com/2010/06/18/climate-craziness-of-the-week-lighting-up-your-windmill/

    David Stockwell put up a slide on coal usage – Chinese consumption is just exploding. Makes this carbon credit stuff look pretty silly really.

    Fortunately the empirical climate sensitivity to CO2 is low and some warming may come in handy based on David Archibald’s prediction of a couple of degrees of cooling, due to the low solar cycle 24 activity.


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  • #

    The Human Race needs to change the way we live.There is no longer a valid reason to steal and abuse our fellow man anymore,in order to survive.We can now help everyone and at the same time control population levels.

    When we have despotic governments that change to a republican for of government can there be vast improvements in the quality of life on the entire planet.If ALL the nations realize that they can lay down their arms and trade for what we need.Then we can use the savings that are currently being wasted on military.Then we can use it on health care,drinking water and many other programs that would benefit the people’s quality of life.

    Instead we see the waste and destruction of wars,that actually creates more wars later,BECAUSE of previous destruction and waste.I detest the deliberate use of BILLIONS of dollars used to compel destruction on others.It is stupid waste of all the potential that could have been used to make the land more bountiful and beautiful.

    Playing these immature games only serves to keep away Aliens from other planets from meeting us.

    The Human Race needs to grow up!


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  • #
    Speedy

    Sunsettommy

    Agree – humanity needs to grow up, one person at a time, starting with you and me. One of the items that peeve me about the alarmists are how they (say Al Gore) would rather issue decrees to mankind on how it can cure its ills (like CO2, apparently) but he never deigns to raise a finger by fixing his own ills. (e.g. sell a beachside mansion or two.) Instructions to others becomes a substitute for taking individual responsibility and action.

    Humanity needs to grow up – one person at a time. Starting with the bloke in the mirror. I’m going to try to be nice to someone today – maybe it’ll catch on?

    Cheers,

    Speedy


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  • #
    Speedy

    Jo

    Agree – the value of the carbon credits is lower than they want, but still much more than its intrinsic worth. I suppose Al Gore won’t be able to buy any more manions if the price stays like this? The pain, the pain…

    Cheers,

    Speedy


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  • #
    J.Hansford

    But, but…. Think of the joy it has brought to AlGore.

    Think of all the Union pension funds that have invested in the green energy future.

    Think of the amazing lessons we face in the coming future. It’s gonna be a wonderful experience.

    I suggest that when the time comes, we all go ’round and have a BBQ at big Al’s place. We’ll supply the beer the unions can supply the nuts;-)


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  • #
    Adolf Balik

    There is Tim Garrett‘s finding. His calculation based on global macroeconomic data discovered there is nothing like economic grow without energy consumption grow. There is none energy consumption plunge without an economic drop. The global civilization as a whole produces the same amount of dollars in global GDP as is proportional to the energy amount that consumes. It is 0.97 mW x year per US $1 adjusted to the 1990 price level. There is not like increased energy efficiency of economic system it is the only removing of the economic opportunities bond with the energy consumption to different nations but planet as a whole must either grow on base of energy consumption growing or limit its energy consumption inevitably accompanied with global GDP drop. May be it’s not just a coincidence that the huge economic crisis came when we imposed the artificial “limits of grow” on the world. CO2 permit trade is a trade with death – with commanded economic death.

    Garrett work:
    http://www.springerlink.com/content/9476j57g1t07vhn2/


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  • #
    Rereke Whaakaro

    Adolf Balik: #17

    Adolf,

    It is 0.97 mW x year per US $1 adjusted to the 1990 price level.

    Did you mean 0.97mW (i.e. milliWatts – about the consumption of an LED) or did you mean 0.97MW (i.e MegaWatts – about the consumption of Al Gore’s household)?


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  • #

    [...] This post was mentioned on Twitter by Jerry Rochester, vexnews. vexnews said: Carbon credits markets exposed http://j.mp/d8Nn2i [...]


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  • #
    Joe Lalonde

    So, companies that buy credits will have to have the capital by increased prices on goods being manufactured. Companies that sell credits would be incredibly stupid to pass on the savings to consumers.

    Profit,Profit,Profit,Profit.


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  • #
    janama

    Completely OT yet speaking of the fickle nature of things.

    I was searching through ScienceDaily and I noticed the suggested similar topics and the Google ads changing as I went so I decided to capture some of them.

    http://users.tpg.com.au/johnsay1/Stuff/antarctic.jpg


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  • #
    Wayne, s. Job

    In my twilight years, perhaps ten to go, can anyone enlighten me as to how many $2 carbon credits I will need, to ussuage my conscience for breathing. Just how much CO2 do we breathe out. My Harley is very thirsty though maybe I need to add that to the equation and I do like a warm house, with my eyesight dimming the new 100 watt quartz halogen globes are a blessing.

    My chevy Suburban seven and a half litre V8 probably should be added in but is useful for towing my 1000 Hp racing boat. With all the regos and fees for all my other stuff I will discount those and call it $4 dollars for carbon, till I die. If my calculations are awry please inform me, I would hate to go to my grave knowing that I had destroyed the planet for the want of $4 dollars of carbon credits.


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  • #
    Adolf Balik

    Rereke Whaakaro 17:

    I is the LED having worked for 1 year. More particular energy equivalent in primary source (fuel). That is 30.6 kJ or 8.5 W x hour.


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  • #
    Tide

    Wayne @22,

    There is no need for concern regarding your exhalation of carbon dioxide. Every bit of carbon in your body that is available for producing carbon dioxide ultimately came from plants that had extracted carbon dioxide from the atmosphere in the first place.

    All you did was to sequester that carbon for a period of time and, for that, we all thank you! :)


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  • #
    William

    “pat”, regarding the cemetry.

    I know who I would like to see buried in shallow unmarked graves…….

    All the GREEN COMMUNISTS and those that support this treasonous propaganda of the global warming FRAUD!!


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  • #
    Speedy

    O/T but interesting…

    http://diggingintheclay.wordpress.com/2010/05/26/what-planet-is-he-on/#more-7

    It appears Plimer may have been right about the CO2 outgassing from volcanos after all.

    Cheers,

    Speedy

    Now, back to the thread…


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  • #
    Brian G Valentine

    My recent nightmare, is carbon credits that suddenly become “worth” something by regulation, then are snatched up by Enron-style entrepreneurs, then are resold at extortion level prices to anyone trying to stay in business

    (remember California blackouts that resulted from Enron extortion? Picture the whole country in that situation)

    If anyone (Matt?) can give a reasonable explanation why that wouldn’t happen under ETS/cap and trade, I would greatly appreciate hearing it

    thus reducing my anxiety considerably


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  • #
    allen mcmahon

    HFC-23 is easily eliminated by the use of scrubbers. By 2007 companies producing HFC-23 obtained $4.6 billion in credits for an expenditure of approx. $100 million. As companies made more out of credits than they did from manufacturing a product more factories opened with the express purpose of producing HFC-23. Eventually the UN limited credits to companies that had been established before 2004. Following this as HFC-23 credits reduced there was a rise in projects claiming credits for the reduction NOx.
    Projects for the reduction of ‘exotic gasses’ are expected to account for 38% of Kyoto credits by 2012 while renewable projects will account for less than 25%. As up to 40% of the projects qualifying for Kyoto credits would have happened anyway or were fraudulent Kyoto has been yet another expensive failure courtesy of the UN


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  • #
    Brian G Valentine

    All the GREEN COMMUNISTS and those that support this treasonous propaganda of the global warming FRAUD!!

    The “Communist menace/world domination” fears of the late 1940′s early -50′s DID materialize, didn’t they


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  • #
    Brian G Valentine

    Obviously HFC 23 (Flouroform) is so dilute that the possible impact is nothing, cf the CO2 emissions produced by “destroying” it with flame or plasma, or scrubbing it

    [California, here we come! California fuel ethanol comes from the midwest, and is shipped there in tanker trucks - increasing by three the amount of CO2 reduced by adding ethanol to gasoline in California!]


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  • #
    allen mcmahon

    My recent nightmare, is carbon credits that suddenly become “worth” something by regulation, then are snatched up by Enron-style entrepreneurs, then are resold at extortion level prices to anyone trying to stay in business

    Brian The implementation of the ETS in the EU in 2005 was a disaster particularly for the UK. The small businesses sector was severely disadvantaged as they payed the full market price plus administration costs. Understandably the larger companies that were allocated permits chose to trade them and pass on the profit to their shareholders, additional costs were passed directly to the consumer. During 2006 the over allocation of permits saw the market price fall from 30 euro per ton to 20 pence per ton. Consumers and small businesses were the big losers and as emissions in the UK rose by 3.6% during this period it was all for nothing. Despite this remarkable failure the UK entered into round two of the EU ETS.


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  • #
    Baa Humbug

    allen mcmahon: #31
    June 20th, 2010 at 1:46 pm

    Despite this remarkable failure the UK entered into round two of the EU ETS.

    Ohhhh I dunno Allen, looks like it was a resounding success for some.


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  • #
    Brian G Valentine

    Isn’t the Left supposed to be the “advocate” of the poor and disadvantaged?

    Leftists are as greedy and stupid as anyone they criticize. Even more so, by demanding the Government to institute their schemes by law

    Not even gangsters and mafiosi do that – they have more pride than to demand the Government protect their extortion/prostitution/drug rackets


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  • #
    William

    The Penrith bi-election result hits home to Kevin Rudd

    The ship is sinking, my demise, I’m thinking, is just a matter of time.
    The polls are diving, when once were thriving, now ridiculous, once sublime.
    The party’s over, and fields of clover now appear a meadow of weeds,
    It appears quite clear, failures so severe, is the last thing this country needs.

    So now every poll, when once on a roll, is something I detest,
    It is plain to see, with no subtlety, the voters do suggest,
    They want me gone, their trust withdrawn, a pauper once a King,
    And at the very first chance, on my grave they dance, with a 25% swing.

    Seems my broken vows, all my why’s and how’s, no excuse they will accept,
    As we approach full term, I can confirm, not a single promise kept.
    So much rhetoric, enough to make you sick, lots of words but no details,
    I could make a case, lie to your face, and blame it all on New South Wales.

    I confess I nearly, just blamed Kenneally, for the disastrous result,
    But the truth be known, once again I’ve shown, I’m more child than adult.
    I fooled you once, I took my chance, but could not sustain the great charade,
    And true to ALP form, I could not perform, and the voters have been betrayed.

    Reality bites, and try as I might, I can’t deny the blatant facts,
    That I’ve stuffed it all, had a massive fall, and it’s not just the mining tax.
    It was the ETS, who would’ve guessed, that’d start the downward spiral,
    And now my leadership’s, after the backflips, considered deadly, sickly, viral.

    There is no doubt, it’ll all come out, that I’m a very strange man indeed,
    And my inner drive, what made me strive, was that my ego needs a feed.
    Narcissistic megalomaniac, no friends, no factions, no idea,
    Now I’ve stuffed it all, had a mighty fall, and I’m about to disappear.

    The sharks surround, rumours abound, they’re baying for my blood.
    Despite my best efforts, I must confess, it’s true I am a dud.
    It didn’t take me long, to show I don’t belong, and to feed your frustrations,
    I’ve ‘Rat F#@&ed;’ you all, I’m weak I’m pall, I’ve killed Labor for generations.


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  • #
    Brian G Valentine

    That’s really pretty good, William!

    A lot better than anything I could do

    good night happy USA Father’s Day to all


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  • #
    Speedy

    Brian

    And what about the BBC? The employee’s pension scheme is up to its armpits in (so called) green investment like renewable energy. If these scams fall over, then the employee’s pensions come to nothing?

    Shouldn’t the BBC declare this as vested interest when they do their reporting?

    Cheers,

    Speedy


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  • #
    Tel

    What pisses me off is that there are rules against short trading carbon offsets. Why is it that warmists can profit, but not skeptics? I really wanted to be able to short them back when offsets were trading at peak prices.

    I wish I could make substantial bets on this prediction turning out to be resoundingly false:

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-1287643/Human-race-extinct-100-years-population-explosion.html?ITO=1490


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  • #
    Bruce

    Forgive my curiosity, but does anyone know what that brown oblect is on the bottom right corner of the crumpled carbon credit bill – that looks like a melted bon bon?


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  • #
    MikeO

    I was watching Inside Business today and on it there is an article about the price of “Renewable Energy Certificates” having collapsed and that this had caused the moth balling of various wind power projects. The Govt hopes to pass legislation to correct that this coming week.

    There was talk from the “Alternative Energy” players about a definite need to deregulate power pricing. The plan is that 20% of electricity will come from such sources by 2020.

    NEAL WOOLRICH: “Even without the renewable energy target, electricity prices are forecast to double in six years. And while renewables only make up a small part of total power bills today, the cost of renewables is forecast to treble by 2015. And for the most energy intensive industries that will create a considerable burden”.

    Who said the ETS was shelved?


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  • #
    Baa Humbug

    Bruce: #38
    June 20th, 2010 at 4:22 pm

    Here is a way to check Bruce. Take out the largest denomination in your pocket. Grab a lighter or a match. light the corner of your banknote.

    Compare with the picture above. :)


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    allen mcmahon

    Baa the EU ETS was little more than wealth distribution between the various EU countries. The UK had to buy permits to offset 6.1% of their emissions whereas France was credited with minus 3.1% as most of their power generation was nuclear. So France was able to sell its free permits to the UK or any other country that required them and make a profit. What was worse for countries that needed to offset emissions only a small percentage of their permits could be purchased via market while countries like France who started in credit could by cheap on the open market and sell dear to places like the UK, Spain, Hungary etc. The system was totally inequitable, for instance while Germany produced 75% more pollution than the UK it cost them far less to comply.
    At the company level some collected their free permits, sold them on the open market then moved their polluting operations out of the EU. Once outside the EU they obtained CDM status and Kyoto credits which they then sold and made additional profits.
    Rudd and Co’s proposed ETS scheme was similar to that implemented by the EU. It would have failed as well so obviously Rudd places increased government revenue over the welfare of the average Australian.


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    Baa Humbug

    allen mcmahon: #41
    June 20th, 2010 at 6:35 pm

    Yep, that’s the scam at the EU level Allen. On a global level, the Kyoto protocol was set up with targets compared to 1990 levels.
    Guess what was happening in Europe in the early 90′s?


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    Bruce

    Baa Humbug,

    Thanks.

    Now that you mention it – it seems obvious.

    Also found an interesting link on James Delingpole’s blog.

    http://vimeo.com/12680884


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    Mark

    Yet another article on why Spain is broke.

    http://www.ozclimatesense.com/2010/06/spain-solar-from-poster-child-to-bete.html

    Note the squeals of protest as these little piggies are dragged off the taxpayer teat.


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  • #
    Joe Veragio

    What is it with acadaemia in Aus ?

    Fenner sees no hope for humans

    Seems so a depressing place to work.


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    Brian G Valentine

    Frank Fenner reminds me very much of Paul Ehrlich in the USA.

    Some 40 or 50 yeas ago Ehrlich predicted the “extinction” of humans by the year 2000 – from “pollution” – Ehrlich is nearly 80 and continues the same funeral dirge about “global warming.”

    Longevity has been an obvious consequence of civilisation – all for people like Ehrlich to spit upon it.

    We can’t chalk this off to “senility” – Ehrlich has been doing this all his life.

    At one point such people received praise and recognition for their misanthropy – and they have learned to continue it for the same reason. Their own lives, their own experiences, have taught these people nothing. In eight decades, mind you!


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    harrywr2

    Why are prices so low?

    US East Coast electric utilities are planning to build some nuclear power plants.
    http://www.nrc.gov/reactors/new-reactors/col/new-reactor-map.html

    The price of coal on the US east coast has been rising substantially in the last few years.
    http://www.eia.doe.gov/cneaf/coal/page/acr/table34.html


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    Brian G Valentine

    Price of nuclear is limited by permitting (usually); some of these locations seem doubtful to me.

    Fuel costs are the least expensive item for coal electricity. Environmental is the highest cost and hasn’t risen lately.

    Cap and trade would demolish the economy in short order, in all likelihood, irreversibly if all the debt becomes foreign owned. I really can’t bear thinking about it


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    Bob Malloy

    while talking about power sources.

    UK wind farms paid to turn off turbines.

    No, you did read that correctly. Wind farms are being paid to turn off their turbines – even when the wind is blowing! But hang on a minute, isn’t wind power a key plank in the whole “green economy” that we’re seamlessly transitioning towards? Aren’t we supposed to be able to decommission our coal and gas fired power stations and rely on wind and solar instead? From the UK Telegraph:

    http://www.australianclimatemadness.com/


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    Mark

    Brian G @ 46:

    You got that right, Brian!

    If there was ever any doubt in my mind about the farce of AGW, it vanished as soon as I read that Paul Ehrlich had crawled out of his retirement home in support of it.

    I well remember all the ridiculous predictions he made in the ’70s. Not one eventuated. Pity that noone in the MSM doesn’t twig to this.

    Then again, most of the reporters are snotty-nosed kids who wouldn’t know their a**ehole from their earhole, so maybe I shouldn’t be surprised at their lamentable regard for contemporary history.


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    Brian G Valentine

    Note the squeals of protest as these little piggies are dragged off the taxpayer teat

    Were you expecting to hear their cheers for putting an end to their organised crime?

    The Spanish government only wasted about €17 Bn taxpayer Eurodollars on this zero-payout Ponzi scheme – Spaniards out to be GRATEFUL to the government for not turning Spain into Greece.

    President Obummer: “We will look to other countries how to model our new Green Economy.”

    President Obummer continues to promote (demand) a Green Economy, although he currently omits reference to “success stories” like Spain


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    Hmmmn, lets see now. $1.88/tonne CO2 = $6.90/tonne of Carbon which means about $13.80/m3 of wood. And these morons expect me to permanently set aside a $15,000 hectare of good productive land that will grow 10m3/ha/year for the piddly annual return of just $138? At just 0.92 of 1% anual return on capital I guess we won’t need to worry about a super profits tax for a while, eh? And even this piddly return assumes that the value of the credit will not decline further next year. The carbon spivs are economic neanderthals.


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    Woops, correction! The $6.90 for a tonne of carbon works out at only $3.45 per cubic metre of wood, not the $13.80 I mentioned above. It takes 2 M3 of wood to produce a tonne of carbon. So my 10m3/ha annual forest growth will only get me $34.50 a year in credits. And that means my return on land is only 0.23 of 1% per annum. Gosh, what a gold mine.


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    [...] as colourless and invisible. The notorious blogger Jo Nova, a Galileo advisor, writes about the “scammability of permits for invisible unverifiable goods”. Another prominent climate denier, Brian Sussman from the blog Climategate, complained about [...]


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    [...] as colourless and invisible. The notorious blogger Jo Nova, a Galileo advisor, writes about the “scammability of permits for invisible unverifiable goods”. Another prominent climate denier, Brian Sussman from the blog Climategate, complained about [...]


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