Bob Inglis is a former Republican congressman who lost out to a Tea Partier (you’ll see why). He’s visiting Australia to talk us into doing climate manipulation. I can’t see his reasoning catching on:
Former Republican congressman Bob Inglis says he knows it sounds improbable to say the US president would impose a carbon price, but he thinks reality will force Mr Trump’s hand.
“Donald Trump said climate change is a Chinese hoax and conspiracy – but he couldn’t possibly believe that,” Mr Inglis told the National Press Club in Canberra on Wednesday.
Obviously it’s impossible for Inglis to believe Inglis Could Be Wrong.
In the five stages of grief, he’s stuck at number one…
Watch the contortions to fit that worldview into a round hole:
He laments the tribalism of the debate, saying there’s such fear among conservatives about being seen as weak in the face of the environmental left they refuse to hear anything.
He frames the question to conservatives as not whether they believe in climate change, but if they think free enterprise can solve it.
“We’ve got to build the confidence of the right so that they can send the tribal leaders down to the river to meet with the other tribe’s leaders,” Mr Inglis said.
Free enterprize has solved it. When people are free to choose, 98% don’t buy carbon credits.
Story – The Australian (paywalled)
The broken science is not a Chinese conspiracy, but an international one driven by the IPCC and a few misguided pseudo-scientists. The Chinese are just smart enough to see this stupidity as a way to advance themselves at the expense of the west.
491
I agree. But also concerned that Trump may be destroyed by those who also eliminated John F. Kennedy in 1963 and the Apollo Space Program in 1972.
Truth is a needle to the over-inflated egos of UN globalists.
342
To mitigate this, the Trump climate agenda must put in place the structure necessary to fix the broken science and deprecate the rationalization for a global organization like the IPCC to exist. Those egos need more than the pin prick of a needle, but the weight of meteoric impact reducing them to irrelevancy.
271
Copernicus died in 1542, after reporting the truth: The Sun controls all of the planets from the center of the “helio-centric” solar system.
At the center of the Sun is the power most feared by arrogant tyrants.
171
That widely overlooked power:
1. Holds the Sun in continuous vibration, and
2. The Earth “Moves (vibrates) to the rhythm of the Sun,”
http://www.esa.int/esaSC/SEMJJYUL05F_index_0.html
121
Good ol’ James has something to say about this…he always does (heh):
http://www.breitbart.com/big-government/2017/02/22/delingpole-nasa-lose-role-green-propagandist-shock/
61
OKM
So now who else was at Dealey Plaza in November of 1963.
We had CIA…Rogue CIA…Black Ops Cia
FBI…Rogue FBI…Can FBI go Black OPS?
The KGB and Cubans and not to forget that New Orleans AG whackJob from the other whackjob film by Oliver Stone who blamed a local gay businessman called Clay Shaw.
Now were the KGB fellas regular or we they rogue and maybe we had Deep Throat type Ultra Sinister Ultra Secret joint Pentagon CIA and FBI Pro Mafia, Castro Loving Mafia Blacker than Black Patriots.
And then there was the Lee Harvey Oswald trained Dingo led astray by a vengeful Marilyn Monroe that ran amok and fired all the shots from the Book Depository Zapruder Conspiracy Shop for Whacky Doodles.
15
I fully agree with you.
Life is confusing.
10
The fact that Maurice Strong, one of the pioneers of the #CAGW program ended up in China and advising them I think says it all. The Chinese aren’t stupid. They can see if they propagate the global warming mantra they can a. sell solar panels & wind turbines to the gullible in the West and b. can slowly but surely bring down the economies of the West. Inglis is one of the gullible in the West.
211
RET the toothless tiger….
http://www.abc.net.au/news/2017-02-23/erm-power-alinta-pay-penalties-rather-than-meet-ret/8296680
Electricity retailers ERM Power and Alinta Energy have opted to pay more than $130 million in penalties, rather than meeting their renewable energy obligations, raising fresh questions about the operation of the Renewable Energy Target (RET).
Key points:
•RET compliance rate falls from 99pc to 94 pc in 2016
•15 electricity retailers failed to surrender correct number of renewable energy certificates
•Eight retailers failed to surrender a single certificate, copping $8m in penalties
The Clean Energy Regulator (CER), which administers the RET, has released data showing the compliance rate for the scheme has fallen from more than 99 per cent in previous years to 94 per cent in 2016.
According to the data, 15 retailers incurred so-called shortfall penalties for failing to surrender the correct number of renewable energy certificates but ERM’s was by far the highest at $123.5 million, followed by Alinta Energy, which paid $7.9 million.
Eight of those retailers, including QEnergy Limited and Next Business Energy, completely failed to meet their obligations, not surrendering a single certificate, and incurred more than $8 million in penalties combined.
CER chairwoman Chloe Munroe said the fall in the compliance rate did not detract from the overall effectiveness of the scheme but said it was “disappointing” some retailers had chosen to pay the shortfall penalty.”
“chosen to pay the shorfall penalty”……why does that sound like either way you go, its like an offer people just couldnt refuse?
71
Yes, the LGCs cost $85-90 whereas the fine was $63-65 per MWh. I wonder why they didn’t pay? And the good thing would be if the Government left this in place, so the money went to the government not more to the wind generators, thus undermining their profits and stalling a rush into new farms.
61
Hey, what’s the problem.
I expect they’ll surrender those certificates just fine, but maybe intermittently . . just like a wind farm. 😉
51
Capone would have been proud….
41
So, umm, let me see if I’ve got this right.
This has nothing whatsoever to do with renewable energy. It’s just about the money.
Hmm! Who would have thought!!!
Note how it’s cheaper to pay the penalties than to support renewables. Don’t tell me that power generating companies haven’t had their bean counters go over all this with a fine tooth comb and have found that it is cheaper to just pay the penalty.
Either way, someone is making a helluva lot of money.
And also, please don’t try and tell me this extra cost, one way or the other is not being passed directly down to consumers. Those entities paying those costs would not be losing money I’ll bet.
Electrical power getting cheaper! As the lady says in the Eclipse Chewy Mint ad ….. “don’t be ridiculous!”
Tony.
151
And the IPCC is a UN creation…
40
We are in the middle of a scientific and social revolution:
https://jonrappoport.wordpress.com/2017/02/22/trump-watergate-nixon-rockefeller-the-real-lesson/
121
If Trump really is anti-globalist, he will need trustworthy personal protection.
A. Former President John F. Kennedy
1. Came to office in 1960;
2. Started the Apollo Space Program to protect the US from USSR’s domination (with a surprise launch of Sputnik in 1957);
3. Was assassinated in 1963.
B. Former President Richard M. Nixon
1. Came to office in 1968:
2. Sent Kissinger to China to negotiate a new “world peace” in 1971;
3. Ended Kennedy’s Apollo Space Program in 1972.
C. Now the US relies on Russian rockets to get to the International Space Station.
1. That is the reality President Trump faces in 2017.
131
Especially annoyed at Trump will be winners of Nobel and Crafoord Prizes after WWII for carefully selecting experimental data and observations to confirm the UN’s “Standard Scientific Models“ of
1. Earth’s Changing Climate, AGW
2. Earth’s Source of Heat, SSM
3. Big Bang Cosmology, BBC
4. Nuclear Energy, SNM
61
Some people are suffering from Trumpaphobia.
21
UN’s globalists, mainstream news media reporters and “97%-consensus scientists” are especially susceptible to trumpsphobia !
They confirm my trust in him.
91
That syndrome had already been identified and even has an abreviation:
T- Trump
U- Unacceptance
R- Resistance
D- Disorder.
31
Bob Inglis is another confused RINO, once again we see a person in public office that consistently contradicts themselves without any self awareness, before questioning what others may or should think he will make the most of his visit and talk to Jo and David about Climate Change after all that’s what any self respecting conservative believer of free enterprise would do before committing investment, isn’t it?
171
As i have said numerous times about liberal and labor here in Oz, and the same applies to the US dems and republicans – “there aint a dimes worth of difference between republucans and democrats”.
This bloke has just proven that beyond doubt.
All are controlled by the globalists. Trump is at risk , like Kennedy. That said, i suspect underneath it all trump is a (usa version ) liberal. He gas also not killed off the NWO plan of implementing the NWO plan of NAFTA when he shoukd have. This tings alarm bells. That and his frienshipbwith arch NWO heavy hitter Kissenger….
51
Sorty..havent had my first coffee. 😛
51
hmm….a combination of small keyboard and lack of caffiene….feel a tad more sorted now.
Yes, rather worryingly, Trump hasnt killed off the NAFTA thing, which is very very bad.
Trump may yet be another trojan horse, as the NWO relies on all nation states becoming subservient to the UN, but the NWO know they cant do it all on one go, so they form nations into super states as an intermediary step( hey, look at the EU, what could possibly go wrong…? ) and then merge into global govt. The NWO mob also do small scale runs first to do P.O.C., then go the full schmear.
So Trump may fiddle about the edges, but the climate thing may yet prove to be a distraction, namely the formation of super states like NAFTA, EU, AU, ASEAN etc.
22
I share your concerns, but I am amazed at the progress Trump has made so far.
101
He has done more in a month,than Obongo did in 8 years.Rome wasn’t built in a day.He deserves”Our”support.
71
OriginalSteve,
I am curious. Can you document Trump’s “friendship with arch NWO heavy hitter Kissenger….?”
31
http://thehill.com/homenews/administration/306604-trump-meets-with-henry-kissinger
http://time.com/4351170/donald-trump-henry-kissinger-foreign-policy/
“One of the biggest diplomats in the country who is a friend of mine, you saw recently I actually met with him and it was all over the place, so you can figure it out,” Trump began, apparently referencing a meeting he had with Kissinger, former secretary of state and foreign policy guru, in the middle of May.”
21
In Nov. 2016, Trump said, “I have tremendous respect for Dr. Kissinger and appreciate him sharing his thoughts with me,” Trump said, according to the statement.
Kissinger and Trump met during the Republican presidential primaries, a visit Trump hoped would build up his foreign policy credentials.
If I were running for President against the Republican and Democratic Parties, as Trump did, I might also seek Kissinger’s endorsement, while personally regarding Kissinger as the traitor who traded away the Apollo Space Program for a meaningless peace with the USSR and China in 1971.
52
“This bloke has just proven that beyond doubt.”
He has also shown why he got TROUNCED by a Tea Party candidate. 🙂
Really, I’ve had enough of these far-left “conservatives” cow-towing to the UN/one-unelected-bureaucratic-world-government agendas and scams.
Turnbull, Hunt, Fraidenberg, etc etc etc… WAKE THE **** UP !!!
32
Andy: it is kowtowing unless you were making a devious reference to the main product of the left wing when you should have used BULL.
20
Trounced is an understatement. Trey Gowdy got 71.3% of the Republican Primary vote. Primaries are elections for political Parties run by most of the States.
When an incumbent gets destroyed to that degree it means his own Party’s voters “found him out”.
His great “sin” was warmism. South Carolina produces little fossil fuel and is not a major manufacturing State. Supports my view that the US voters simply will not tolerate a “carbon tax”.
Remember, we still have our guns. Australians need to take theirs’ back. Over here, we want the Government to fear the People more than the People fear the Government. Likely not important but maybe why we have been robbed a little less by warmists.
00
You folks in Australia can keep Mr. Bob.
20
Wot about Trotters = Tr_ump + Ho_tters.
I’ll get me coat………….
41
I could have told you that the letters R-e-p-u-b-l-i-c-a-n strung together in that order made no guarantee of a sane understanding of science or the weather. Apparently nothing can make that guarantee.
And shouldn’t it be 97% who wouldn’t buy carbon credits? 😉
This may provide some needed comic relief about now.
At least we can all agree on that, right?
201
I know, I know, lousy pun and all that. But it’s all I could do with no warning that a Republican had blown his brains out.
91
A Republican with brains?
62
Well I used to think so. But that theory seems to be going through its baptism by fire right now. So maybe I can let you know in 3 or 4 years.
41
So who is paying the fare for this man’s eco-evangelical sojourn? Why is here?
51
You’ve got this one wrong.
31
Got what wrong…
— the Republican with a sane understanding of science and the weather ???
— 97% ???
— the electron being positive it lost its electron ???
— that we can agree on at least something ???
Or maybe I’ve got all 4 wrong but I’d swear the right percentage of something or other is 97. The IPCC says so. 🙂
32
I think he means you have him (a Republican) wrong.
Me too I hope
31
Sort of right
Bob Inglis is a republican!
Like
Malcolm Turnbull is a Liberal?
60
Mark,
I hope we don’t have a whole lot of Republicans wrong. I notice that congress adjourned right on time and went home, apparently without a thought to the current situation. If I was Donald Trump I would be sorely tempted to call them back into session and tell them to get to work. Time’s a wastin. But maybe being there involuntarily wouldn’t work out so well anyway.
The wheels of government move painfully slow when it comes to the need for legislative action.
10
I think any individual that gets into public office must undergo a psychiatric assessment.
The results have to be public information. Where do these people come from? Where do there ideas come from?
51
You’d have to be nuts to put liberal shrinks in charge of identifying craziness.
71
Yes, how would you prove yourself sane to people who aren’t.
11
That’s his problem, he sees everything as tribes. The stronger tribe will always win and he’s saying his tribe should capitulate. Capitulation in a tribal world usually means the destruction and/or assimilation of the weaker tribe.
Something similar is happening in today’s world on another front. Does he also subscribe to his theory when it comes to that situation?
81
Bob Inglis came a very long way,
To Australia with nothing to say,
But suggest that Trump backs,
Carbon credits and tax,
And expect folks be happy to pay.
301
“Free enterprize has solved it. When people are free to choose, 98% don’t buy carbon credits.”
As they would not buy so called renewable energy and pay the additional cost if free to choose.
131
Yes, but Australia has LGCs and SGCs, Large Scale Generator Certificates, otherwise known as Carbon Credits.
Also not previously mentioned and hidden from the public but applied are the carbon taxes known as “Small-scale Technology Certificates (STCs). STCs are created for these systems at the time of installation, according to the amount of electricity they are expected to produce or displace in the future. For example, the SRES allows eligible solar PV systems to create, at the time of installation, STCs equivalent to 15 years of expected system output.”
How are these Carbon Taxes hidden from the consumer?
“While it is possible for owners of renewable energy systems to create and sell the STCs themselves, in practice, installers of these systems usually offer a discount on the price of an installation, or a cash payment, in return for the right to create the STCs.”
So the solar system carbon taxes, 15 years worth of carbon taxes are hidden in the electricity bills of those who do not buy solar systems. Plus the people who do can get paid for the power they do not use. A double subsidy.
121
Sorry, STC’s not SGCs. Of course no one knows these carbon taxes exist and you are paying them today. No one in government says anything and like the old sales taxes, these are hidden in your bills. That is why Brian O’Malley, head of Bluescope complained that the cost of energy in Australia to make steel is 10x that in America. Clearly we have massive carbon taxes because that money does not go to the owners of Hazelwood and Pelican Point, which is why they are closing them.
91
Whatever they are, they are the economic equivalent of STD’s.
71
Silently Transmitted Debt. Everyone makes money and you have to pay them. The government is not subsidizing solar panels. We are and they get 15 years of carbon taxes on the first day.
111
Plus 10% GST
71
“After all, it’s one thing to lose an election, it’s quite another to lose one’s soul.”
Clearly the man is an idjit and shouldn’t be taken seriously.
60
Yes, a politician who took the job because of his conscience, the need to save the planet from imminent destruction. What a guy!
Still the warmists of South Australia have done a great job next door in Victoria. After five major blackouts, the windmills of South Australia have not produced enough electricity when needed and left devastation to lives, factories and businesses generally but Victoria has had one of the coldest summers in history. Tomatoes have not ripened. The roses were poor and worst of all, our pumpkins failed. Oh the humanity! It’s nice to now politicians are motivated only by their compassion and their heart felt belief that only taxation can save the planet.
121
Has it been the coolest in 65 years?
I have become an obsessed cyclist.
41
It goes around.
51
You would understand cycles then.
51
Yes but its only weather.
“Melbourne’s long-term official temperature record indicates that we haven’t had a cool spell like this in late-January, early-February since 1950,” James Taylor said.
A cold air outbreak (CAO) is a regional cooling signal.
61
Yes, Perth’s climate changed this summer. Record cold and record rain. It’s like that recent Australian study of parrot wing length. If you broke up the regions you could find some parrots had wings which were on average 1cm longer, sure proof of Climate Change.
I think much of botany, biology, zoology and earth sciences actually belongs in the Arts department at university. The utter lack of rational scientific thinking is profound. Similarly with Climate Change. Even the CSIRO was at pains to distinguish on their web site between long term changes in climate and the weather.
Can anyone tell me which climate in Australia as been certified, proven, established as changed? If not, why are we raising taxes? Why is a Solar Panel customer given 15 years of Carbon taxes up front when they buy?
The unifying logic behinds out Ridiculous Energy Tax is that the public should be kept ignorant, mushroomed. Last year to the tune of $3Bn, not counting State subsidies to Alcoa, Hazelwood, Port Pirie, Whyalla and many more. Everything is being done to decieve the voters and electricity customers while their bills are stuffed with government demands, unitemized. Still, it has always been that way with Petrol where we pay Singapore/OPEC prices even when for the last 60 years, most of our petrol was Australian.
The RET schemes, big and small are theft.
71
After spelling changes..
Yes, Perth’s climate changed this summer. Record cold and record rain. It’s like that recent Australian study of parrot wing length. If you broke up the regions you could find some parrots had wings which were on average 1cm longer, sure proof of Climate Change.
I think much of botany, biology, zoology and earth sciences actually belongs in the Arts department at university. The utter lack of rational scientific thinking is profound. Similarly with Climate Change. Even the CSIRO was at pains to distinguish on their web site between long term changes in climate and the weather.
Can anyone tell me which climate in Australia Has been certified, proven, established as changed? If not, why are we raising taxes? Why is a Solar Panel customer given 15 years of Carbon taxes up front when they buy?
The unifying logic behinds our Ridiculous Energy Tax is that the public should be kept ignorant, mushroomed. Last year to the tune of $3Bn, not counting State subsidies to Alcoa, Hazelwood, Port Pirie, Whyalla and many more. Everything is being done to deceive the voters and electricity customers while their bills are stuffed with government demands, unitemized. Still, it has always been that way with Petrol where we pay Singapore/OPEC prices even when for the last 60 years, most of our petrol was Australian.
The RET schemes, big and small are theft.
62
I also have been amazed at the crazy weather maps this year. Very unusual but it looks like just luck. Nothing silly but such big areas as rains and heat and winds swept across this massive continent. Now someone wants to say the place is hotter. How do you average all this? How do you average Hobart and Perth and Darwin and Sydney weather, even temperatures. That is like asking for the average temperature in a cyclone. How do you weight things, linearly? How do you weight over years and oceans and continents in this chaotic system? How do you average even up and down as we know the temperature drops up to 1C every 100 metres or so and our little Stevenson Screens are at ground level?
Now we hand out cash to people for 15 years future ‘savings’ on CO2. Nuts. That is not science. It is theft.
92
‘How do you weight over years and oceans and continents in this chaotic system? ‘
We break up the world into regions, such as South-East Australia, and hunt for clues.
Jo had a post up some time ago and mentioned the heatwaves of 1828 and ‘in 1896 a monster heatwave across the nation killed hundreds, and people were even evacuated on emergency trains.’
I see the fingerprint of a Centenary Gleissberg, heatwaves are a sign of regional cooling.
32
TdeF
Thanks for all that, it’s good to get the core of the issue repeated over and over.
The core issue is unjustified, underhanded surcharges on our electricity accounts.
I noticed the effect of one change about 7 years ago. For some reason or other the usage was separated from the poles and wires so that the electricity supplier, ie electron activator, was a different billing identity from the group looking after the poles and wires.
The unions did O.K. but the public got a much poorer and more expensive service.
One aluminum smelter was told that it had to carry its weight: so it did, it packed up and left because of the excessive power charges.
Our governments don’t care but if the voters can be led to understand how they are being taken, things may change for the better.
KK
61
You spoke too soon?
11
And now Coca Cola has announced that they are closing their Adelaide factory down, apparently the SA government claims that the land is too valuable to remain a factory site. On the other hand, I understand that soft drink production requires a considerable amount of electricity to operate the plant and equipment!!!
110
And the plant and equipment are past their use by date,which is good for Qld.
31
Dennis,
The Coca Cola folk can now be trained to build canoes.
The mob at ASC are not even capable of building canoes.
I know that statement was said in jest, BUT it is TRUE.
10
I was driving yesterday afternoon and turned on the ABC.
This asinine drivel was on and it didn’t take me long to turn it off for fear I got road rage.
I didn’t even stay long enough to hear who was babbling on. Now I know.
81
I know. It’s the same trip over and over: renewables,refugees,gay marriage,climate change freak out…… And never a dissenting point of view. Sometimes I wish I had my hands on the levers. Right ,sell off ABC/SBS and give Cassidy, trill and Jones a solid kick up the derrière. Wishful thinking.
171
As free to air is going down the drain we may need to hang onto the ABC and replace half the newsroom with journalists and producers who think like us (PLU) and then we can have a national debate on a whole range of issues.
This is the evolutionary approach to dismantling, as opposed to the revolutionary.
51
I’d settle for replacing newsroom with journalists – you know, the real ones.
One can dream…
50
‘…..the real ones.’
Like in the days before the interweb made them redundant. A journalism school I attended had a strong Marxist leaning, the ABC needs to be throughly purged of pseudos.
30
ah… well… I stand corrected!
40
I don’t think it is limited to your ABC. The mantra is remarkably similar across borders and even oceans.
What would a rational person say about that?
51
Where aunty goes commercial TV will follow, as Fairfax and the Guardian continue to dig their own grave, but all our effort should be about ridding the Trots from the ABC newsroom so we can have the debate.
From an Essential Report: ‘36% think that the ABC is not biased either to the Left or the Right and 22% think it is biased to the Left. A very high 40% do not know if the ABC is biased in any direction.
‘Liberal/National voters are more likely to think the ABC is biased to the Left (42%). 61% of Greens voters and 48% of Labor voters think the ABC is not biased.’
51
Why not make the ABC a subscription service? Then those folks who are really keen on listening to them can pay for the privilege.
20
Here is the google cache version of the paywalled article
http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:vWOUJkYei-YJ:www.theaustralian.com.au/news/latest-news/climate-reality-could-strike-trump-inglis/news-story/c1b368f873bdcbdf66bcfce4bd58dc1b+&cd=2&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=au
31
“former Republican Congressman” kinda says it all in this case I believe. You folks should be glad that your not being bombarded with the constant pure Bull Hockey we hear in the US press here since Trump was elected. They are in full Pravda mode. It’s a constant drum beat. They think they’re doing damage and they are, but the damage is more to themselves than it is to Trump or his agenda. President Trump has been keeping the promises he made and that is all those that voted for him want and the exact thing the left and the deep state fear. I hope you noticed that Congress is falling in line to some extent and a bill will be passed removing most the funding from NASA’s Earth Sciences and giving the funding to space exploration where it belongs. http://dailycaller.com/2017/02/20/congress-slashes-funding-for-nasas-global-warming-research/
101
Yes. They continue to confirm that Trump is doing what he promised . . .
41
I happened upon this on ABC tv yesterday.
I thought it was a religious revival.
The question time was only 3-4 questions long, as the rambling answers involved religious references and doomsday consequences.
Kathryn Hayhoe was cited as a friend and inspiration.
Egad.
Here is the Daily Tele link:
http://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/technology/trump-will-reverse-climate-change-position-former-republican-congressman-bob-inglis-says/news-story/209f63945a7a444d8373bea30e443e0c
41
Dramatic funding change to NASA, NOAA according to James Delingpole. NASA are going to actually work on space exploration instead of spending three times the budget on fudging warming data. Maybe Brian Cox could read about his heroes who put men on the moon fifty years ago. Possibly these are not the same people.
111
“JFK put a man on the moon, Obama put a man in the little girls room”
51
This bloke is a first class fool. Once again here is Lomborg’s PR study showing no measurable drop in temp by 2100. And note that Lomborg uses a much higher climate sensitivity than all the latest studies show. Like Lewis and Curry.
http://www.lomborg.com/press-release-research-reveals-negligible-impact-of-paris-climate-promises
And this donkey should read the latest 2016 US govt EIA report. This tells us that co2 emissions will increase by 34% by 2040. Shouldn’t he be taking his protest to China, India, Japan and all of SE Asia? Meanwhile S&W supply SFA percentage of GLOBAL energy or just 0.5% and the IEA state that this may increase to 2.5% by 2040. See Lomborg’s PR study where he quotes the IEA. When will these fools wake up?
111
Its a question of sensitivity, the model simulations are faulty and the AGW hypothesis is falsified.
http://images.remss.com/figures/climate/RSS_Model_TS_compare_globe.png
Neville do you believe CO2 causes a little bit of warming?
31
We have a problem under the continuous barrage of propaganda about “climate change”.
Look at the lastest essential poll of South Australians. 65% support the 50% RET to 18% no, 45% believe that renewables were NOT responsible for the latest blackouts in SA to 16% yes. Finally 60% believe climate change caused predominantly by humans is real compared to the no vote of 25%. ( reader’s comment in The Australian, not checked).
Clearly it will take more blackouts and colder weather to get the message across. Both seem to be on the way, certainly blackouts in SA and Vic. (see Rick Will’s comment 25.1.1.2 in previous post AEMO medium term outlook) and I have noticed autumn leaves in Adelaide Hills earlier even than last year (unless I am fooling myself). And of course the inevitable increase in electricity bills.
(The comments on electricity articles i The Australian are under seige by sillyfilly, R.A. Raven etc. trying to stem the tide away from renewables. They are in a minority so keep screeching more as they can’t understand why people aren’t accepting their rubbish).
91
Why would you believe what the MSM tell you?They were telling us that the”Hiderbeast”was a shoe in at the election,with I might add,a 90% accuracy.They were”Wrong”then and still haven’t figured it out.
41
what! a global warming tax, because the dams will never fill and children won’t know snow?
22 Feb: LA Times: Worst flooding in 100 years hits San Jose, forcing 14,000 to evacuate
Veronica Rocha, Veronica Rocha and Rong-Gong Lin II
As mandatory evacuations continued for a second day, San Jose officials said Wednesday they still could not provide a timetable for when thousands of residents would be allowed to return after the city was hit by what officials described as the worst flooding in 100 years…
At the same time, he vowed a full investigation into why there was not more warning before the floodwaters hit the center of the city, saying many residents were caught off guard…
“The water was much higher than anybody expected,” Vossbrink said. “The creek spilled over the banks faster and higher than anybody expected.”…
The creek crested to a height of 13.6 feet at a river gauge point on Tuesday evening in South San Jose — nearly four feet above flood stage. The previous record was set in 1922, when the creek crested at 12.8 feet, and before that, in 1917, when the creek reached 12.2 feet.
“This is a once-in-a-100-year flood event,” National Weather Service meteorologist Roger Gass said, referring to Coyote Creek’s surging height in South San Jose. “This is a record level.”…
The culprit was another round of heavy rain in recent days that finally tipped Santa Clara County’s largest reservoir to overflow, the first time it had done so since 2006…
The incoming storm is much colder than the previous ones and should drop more snow than rain, building up the snowpack in Northern California…
http://www.latimes.com/local/lanow/la-me-ln-san-jose-floods-20170222-story.html
22 Feb: Summer skiing? Squaw Valley says it plans to stay open until July 4
By Amy Graff, San Francisco Chronicle
The Tahoe-area resort has seen some 565 inches of accumulative snowfall this season. That’s over 47 feet.
“In 2017 alone, since January 1, we’ve had 460 inches,” said Sam Kieckhefer, a spokesperson for Squaw Valley Alpine Meadows. “Our season average is 450 inches. We received more snow since the start of 2017 than our average season.”
Kieckhefer added: “We are 91 days into our season, and we’re expecting to operate on July 4 and so that means we’re not even halfway done with the season.”…
“We usually see three or four atmospheric rivers in a season,” said Scott McGuire, a meteorologist with the National Weather Service office in Reno. “We’ve already had 10. We’ve had so much snow to the point where it’s getting hard to measure.”
http://www.sfgate.com/bayarea/article/Squaw-Valley-July-4-summer-skiing-Tahoe-open-snow-10951538.php
92
There is one word that explains people like this clamoring for a carbon price of one type or another: Greed.
Politicians are always looking for more revenue streams. The local county commissioners here are trying to attract another wind farm. It has nothing to do with “saving the planet.” It is all about funding this and that; from the sheriff’s department to the county landfill. The thought that it is subsidy farming that ultimately transfers wealth from the poor, middle class, and the elderly, to the wind farm owners, land owners, and a fraction to the government class, hasn’t crossed their minds. It is more immoral than lotteries.
This guy gives himself away when he starts talking about “free market solutions.” That really means crony capitalism, and manifold types of corruption, that he and his buddies plan on being in on.
101
Not to mention all the environmental destruction that wind farms cause, in exchange for a few dollars. These RINOs do not have the public interest, the rising generation’s, their constituent’s interest, wild life, or the planet’s good, in mind.
52
Good outline Dave.
50
He is/was (?) associated with George Mason University home of the call for a RICO probe of “climate change deniers.”
51
The ignorance of Greens
Yestday Andrew Bolt quoted lawyer activist Julian Burnside as saying his grandchildren would not be able to breathe, presumably with the filthy CO2 pollution. That is just ignorance, but lawyers like Burnside and Turnbull usually know no science or mathematics. True also of Gore and Flannery.
Recently Greens leader Dr Richard Di Natale said Whyalla could keep going, as long as they did not use coal. So solar powered steel manufacture? Firstly, as the head of Bluescope said yesterday, Australian power is ten times as expensive as American. Secondly Di Natale as a GP has forgotten any science. The Iron Oxide is combined with Carbon to create CO2, leaving pure iron. This Carbon combustion also dramtically increases the temperature. So steel manufacture, like Aluminium manufacture is about producing CO2 or we do not have any metals. Vast amounts of raw oxygen are pumped into the modern furnace and CO2 comes out the chimney, but Greens have no idea.
We can all get around in wooden cars like the Flintstones and with Wooden iPhones and wooden satellites and they can fly in wooden solar powered aircraft. Without coal/gas/oil society will stop dead. Di Natale can walk to Canberra or catch a steamless locomotive on wooden rails with a plastic boiler or perhaps a wind and solar driven train?
The ignorance of these Greens is only matched by their hypocrisy as they jet around the world lecturing other people on what they can do to save the world from imminent doom. Just like the leaders of most religious sects.
223
I’m just wondering how you produce the plastic boilers TdeF?
31
Hand crafted by blind Abyssian plastics artisans from the plastics trees and glued together with naturally occuring plastic glue from the Amazon, all carried by hand and on rafts from the West coast of South America.
Yes it is hard to imagine what materials we would have left if basic chemistry, engineering and refining were dumped because they produced CO2. The Greens have banned Chlorine before according to Dr Patrick Moore in his Confessions of a Greenpeace Dropout.
Why not ban Carbon? We are taxing it, so why not prohibit breathing?
101
I’m OK with that,as long as they are the first to stop,which will never happen.
21
No Plasic boilers! Plastics are evil, they come from oil or something. And you can forget about all that wooden stuff, cutting down trees is evil. Maybe rubber boilers will do, providing it’s harvested in an environmentally sensitive way, and the workers are not exploited by the evil capitalist system and they pay their carbon offsets to the wize people who govern us.
20
We kept getting told that The Report is all about science. I realise Jo’s readers know the truth but here we have an NZ appointment for the next report –you can guess what sort of scientist she is.
http://www.newshub.co.nz/home/new-zealand/2017/02/kiwi-political-scientist-to-help-prepare-un-climate-change-report.html
51
Well when the Blair UK Labour government asked for a review of the IPCC papers on global warming climate change they did not like what the Chief Scientist presented in reply so they handed the papers to the Chief Economist and asked for a report on what measures were needed to combat the crisis outlined.
61
Wow, head of political science! Where’s the science in politics??
20
latest scare from theirABC, almost incomprehensible:
23 Feb: ABC: Great Barrier Reef coral bleaching could be the new normal by 2050, research finds
By Kathleen Calderwood
The temperatures that caused last year’s devastating coral bleaching on the Great Barrier Reef will occur almost every year by 2050 unless greenhouse gas emissions are curbed quickly, new research finds…
So widespread bleaching could happen every year?
If emissions are not cut significantly and quickly, then temperatures like March 2016 are likely to become very common by the 2030s and 2040s, according to Dr Andrew King, a climate scientist from the University of Melbourne who led the research.
In 2030, there would be a 70 per cent chance of getting temperatures similar to March 2016.
In 2050, that chance would be 97 per cent — and it only goes up from there.
???”Beyond that [the 2016 temperatures] become much cooler than average, to the point that by the late 21st century an event like 2016 would actually be remarkably cold,” Dr King said…
For the research, Dr King ran over a dozen climate models under a low-emissions scenario and a high-emissions scenario…
“We need to reduce our greenhouse gas emissions and we need to make policies that are conducive to that — we need to shift away from power sources like coal … towards renewable energy…
http://www.abc.net.au/news/2017-02-23/great-barrier-reef-coral-bleaching-new-normal-2050/8273314
42
Did they ask 97% of marxists?
41
Alex Epstein says that fossil fuels helped to change a very dangerous planet into a very safe place for humans to live much longer and healthier lives.
Here’s Prof Hans Rosling showing the entire history of the Ind Rev in under 5 minutes and the consequences for human health and life expectancy. This is from 1808 to 2009. and only takes 5 mins of your time.
But please watch the first 5 mins of the next video to witness the appalling ignorance displayed in response to his 3 simple questions.
In fact chimps have a better score than humans. DUH.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jbkSRLYSojo
The ignorance of these simple facts can be shown in the first 5 minutes of Rosling’s TED talk to a huge audience. And this happens right around the world. Unbelievable but true and so called educated people don’t score at a higher level.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sm5xF-UYgdg
41
The cut off date for submissions to the Finkel enquiry into the National Elkectricty Market has been extended to 3 March 2017.
http://www.environment.gov.au/energy/national-electricity-market-review
Rick Will has put in a very interesting submission about the requirements for a renewable, off grid system.
I made a simple submission:
“My submission is a plea to the commission to put aside all preconceptions about global warming, climate change and carbon dioxide. Carbon dioxide is not a pollutant.
Once catastrophic anthropogenic global warming (CAGW) also known as Climate Change is recognised as the alarmist nonsense that it really is the need for renewable electricity sources (wind and solar) completely disappears.
Solar and wind power are too expensive to be considered as primary electricity sources. If it were not for Government guarantees and subsidies, grid connected solar and wind power would not exist. Because the power is intermittent, it is not available when needed. The power grid is destabilised leading to blackouts, loss of productions and loss of jobs!
These problems have already become apparent in South Australia. The Victorian and Queensland governments are determined to follow the same path. The Aluminium industry has already closed in Geelong and the Portland smelter would have closed already if the Victorian government had not committed large amounts of tax payer’s money to save it. Other industries has also suffered, particularly car manufacturing.
Loss of Victorian coal fired power stations could bring down the whole South Eastern Power grid.
The issues are clearly described in this paper by Dr Fritz Varhenholt
Germany’s Engiewende policy has been described as a disaster in the making.
http://www.thegwpf.org/germanys-energiewende-a-disaster-in-the-making/
Yours Sincerely
Peter C”
142
Habitual “climate scientists” are hopelessly addicted to government propaganda of impending doom.
31
I haven’t even had a response to my submission.
21
Spoke too soon, got response today. Essence of my submission:
The big problem is that government policies, State and Federal, have focused only on reduced emissions. There are no policies to address electricity security, reliability or affordability. Governments must change their priorities to focus on the immediate problems of reliability and affordability.
Stop the mad rush towards a 23.5% RET by 2020 that mandate wind/solar supplies increasing from 7% to 18% (that’s on average, so supply varying from 0 to 50% of demand depending on sun and wind). Therefore all of the coal and gas stations must be available, else we will have more and more instances of “load shedding (i.e. blackouts).”
Governments must take action NOW.
51
heard this on ABC news headlines this morning, but couldn’t find it online until now:
23 Feb: ABC: Solar power cheaper than fossil fuels in most capital cities: Climate Council
Solar energy is now cheaper in Australia than retail power prices in most capital cities after dropping 58 per cent in the past five years, the Climate Council says in a new report.
The cost is predicted to fall a further 40 per cent to 70 per cent by 2040, the report said, with the lower price expected to drive an uptake in usage.
Industrial-scale solar plants were also providing cheaper power than new coal plants, the council said…
Climate Council chief executive officer Amanda McKenzie said 20 solar power plants were slated to be built around Australia.
“In Australia, solar is now cheaper than new fossil fuels and nuclear power, and that’s been a big shift in the last few years,” she said.
“In the pipeline, we’re seeing another 3,700 megawatts of solar energy coming online in the next few years, so that’s roughly equivalent to powering 600,000 households.”
The solar industry was surging worldwide, the report said, with countries including China, the US and Japan at the forefront of solar technology…
Australia is expected to reach about 20 gigawatts of solar generation in the next two decades — about a third of current total power generation.
The first national audit of batteries that store solar power showed almost 7,000 were installed in Australian homes last year, with the number expected to triple this year.
Climate councillor Andrew Stock said solar power was more secure from extreme weather events, because it was generated where it was used, adding about 30 per cent of homes in Queensland and South Australia had solar panels installed on their rooftops…
“The era of coal is over and global investment has moved firmly to renewable energy,” he said.
“Solar power is cheaper, has no fuel costs, is non-polluting and it is clear that it will be a key of Australia’s future.”
(LINK TO CLIMATE COUNCIL REPORT WHICH ISN’T WORKING FOR ME)
http://www.abc.net.au/news/2017-02-23/solar-power-cheaper-than-coal-climate-council-finds/8296232
?????
32
We that story about fusion reactors many years ago and now the false government propaganda is about solar energy, but the promise is always about the future.
41
WOW.
I’m going Solar!!!!!
31
By all means go solar – but – make sure you have a work around should the mains feed drop out ( blackout ) so you can trick the panels on the roof into thinking there is 240V feed in the street ( after isolating your house from the mains first…).
Most solar systems will stop generating if they sense the mains feed disappearing.
Allegedly its to stop the panels livening up the local grid ( which it might, but wont power much ).
If you do go solar, check whatthe insurance comapnies think – firies can be reluctant to tackle a house with solar unless they can confirm the panels are inactive, which may be difficult if the roof is alight….even a fire truck spotlight at night can cause them to start operating….and water and power dont mix.
31
Just Joking.
21
Climate council are extreme left warmists with both eyes firmly fixed on the governments cheque book and pay no attention to science whatsoever.
61
If solar and wind are so cheap now,then we won’t have any need to”Subsidize”them,will we?
61
Pat,
With enough subsidies for a Rolls Royce and enough penalties for a Honda Jazz, the RR can be substantially cheaper than the Honda and cost less to run!!!!
20
Inglis personifies swamp inhabitants.
71
Coca Cola moving out of SA and now …
12:15PMMICHAEL OWEN
Jay Weatherill rejects concerns from SA’s biggest employer, BHP Billiton, about its ongoing viability in the state.
The Australian
121
how crazy is that!
30
Wilful placing of head in sand.
20
Atlas Shrugged – Weatherill shrugs. (
20
am ignoring the “experts” on how India/China will soon move to renewables blha blah…
22 Feb: ClimateChangeNews: Mozambique expands coal port lapped by rising seas
Dignitaries celebrate the expansion of Maputo port, but experts warn fossil fuelled climate change threatens development gains
By Sipho Kings in Maputo
Mozambique’s capital can now accommodate the largest ocean-going vessels, after a programme of dredging. Previously, such ships would chug on past to South African ports…
Today, the hot commodity, stockpiled on a concrete slab here and traded upriver at Matola terminal, is coal – destined to be burned in an Indian power station. Mozambique plans a massive expansion of this export market…
Maputo’s main port, which could only handle 3 million tonnes of cargo a year in 2003, is well on its way to handling 40Mt/yr by 2020. That is after a US$700 million investment in its facilities.
The coal port, a bit further up the Maputo River, has also grown and aims to export 20Mt of coal a year by the same date. A second coal terminal is proposed, with a consortium of Swazi and South African junior miners looking to export 6Mt a year. Citing the “huge untapped market from India,” the miners say they have the rights to ultimately dig up 800Mt of coal.
The goal is simple, according to Mesquita: “To make the Port of Maputo the choice for the export of cargo volumes from Mozambique, South Africa, Swaziland, Zimbabwe and Botswana.”…
(This story was produced with the Mail & Guardian, using funding from the Climate and Development Knowledge Network CDKN)
http://www.climatechangenews.com/2017/02/22/mozambique-expands-coal-port-lapped-by-rising-seas/
32
22 Feb: TimesofIndia: Rosneft’s Kurdistan, Libya deals prompted by growing refinery needs
By Dmitry Zhdannikov, Reuters
Russian oil firm Rosneft’s move to lend money to Iraq’s Kurdistan in exchange for crude and a fresh supply deal with Libya are dictated by the growing needs of its refining system in Europe and Asia, trading sources say…
Rosneft faces a growing need in Europe for light barrels for its German refinery after a deal with partner BP expired last year…
With the Libyan deal, volumes of predominantly sweet light crude will be taken to Italy’s port of Trieste from where it will go via pipeline to refineries in Germany, trading sources said.
Rosneft is also in the process of closing a deal to buy a major refinery in India – Essar, which would serve for both Libyan oil and the growing production in Kurdistan.
Rosneft has two main trading partners; Glencore, which became a shareholder in Rosneft this year, and Trafigura, which has a trading venture with Rosneft and will be a co-owner of Essar…
Both Glencore and Trafigura are also actively involved in pre-financing Kurdish oil exports while Glencore is a major exporter of Libyan barrels.
http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/business/international-business/rosnefts-kurdistan-libya-deals-prompted-by-growing-refinery-needs/articleshow/57293785.cms
meanwhile, in fantasy-land:
21 Feb: BT.com: Lib Dem leader warns May not to pander to ‘climate change denier’ Trump
Theresa May must not pander to Donald Trump on climate change but invest to power a “new industrial revolution” in green technology, the Liberal Democrat leader will say.
In a Westminster speech on Wednesday, Tim Farron will urge the Prime Minister to create another “Victorian”-style era of building, focused on tackling climate change.
He will call for a “sweeping programme of investment and reform on a level never seen before”, stressing that the Lib Dems want to see a zero carbon Britain by 2050, a more ambitious target than the current legal requirement to reduce emissions by 80%…
Mr Farron will tell Mrs May to ignore the new US president, who has claimed climate change is a Chinese hoax, and invest in green technology.
“The low carbon and no carbon economy will be underpinned and driven by industries which will be worth trillions globally in the next few decades,” he will say.
“It is a new industrial revolution. We can do as the Victorians did and lead it, prosper from it, and stand tall across the globe as a consequence.
“Or we can look down our noses at it and be surpassed and relegated.”…
Mr Farron will say the Lib Dems are committed to limiting the global temperature rise to 1.5C rather than 2C and the party is enlisting experts to create a plan for a zero carbon UK…
http://home.bt.com/news/uk-news/lib-dem-leader-warns-may-not-to-pander-to-climate-change-denier-trump-11364158200362
32
In case anyone had not noticed, I confess to being a Climate Change Denier. It is nonsensical. No one has even defined Climate Change and no one has said where the climate has changed. A drought here, a flood there, where is the climate change? Where is the dangerous sea level rise which would have Sydney under 100metres of water by 2100?
As far as I can see in the thirty years since the IPCC was formed, the seas have not risen at all, the climate has not changed and the number of people and coal power stations is growing exponentially. Not so CO2 and certainly not temperature anywhere. So I am a denier in the sense that I deny there has been any Climate Change. If so, where?
122
Also, how is a change of 1 degree Centrigrade a problem? Most temperate zones change 20C every day and summer to winter, 40C. In higher latitudes, 80C, from -40C to +40C. Am I really supposed to believe change in an average is significant? Besides as the oceans weigh 340x as much as the thin air above, measuring air temperatures alone is not enough. Surely it will take hundreds or thousands of years for any significant change anyway, no matter what we do. So I guess I must be a denier. Not a fan of either Scientology of Climate Scientology. Both are about the money.
133
You got two red thumbs for that second post, TdeF.
The only real positional difference was the mention of Scientology so perhaps Tom Cruise is reading this. 😉
40
TdeF: I’m 68 years old, and I’ve lived in the UK for all of those years. The climate hasn’t changed – as I always say, hot summers, cold summers, floods, storms, wet winters, dry winters, cold winters, warm winters. There’s nothing new about this, it’s just the UK’s climate going about its usual business.
There’s a lot about ‘climate science’ which is garbage. Examples follow.
How can I possibly accept the so-called science which gives so much weight to supposed fraction of a degree changes and relies on ‘models’ which are at odds with reality?
Making ‘adjustments’ to readings of sea temperatures measured in a bucket some time in the 1800s?
We’re supposed to consider this scientific? It’s absolute nonsense.
I used to work in medical laboratory science and technology. Newer automated and computerised methods of measuring materials in the blood have gradually been introduced over the years.
Did we ever go back and ‘adjust’ our patient records from years ago?
No – of course not!
31
You are right. Most post-WWII science is absolute nonsense.
Why? When nations and their national academies of sciences were united under the UN on 24 OCT 1945, Stalin had the world’s remaining inventory of atomic bombs and also crew members of the American B-29 bomber that USSR troops had captured at Konan, Korea in late AUG 1945 and held for negotiations.
Stalin apparently convinced other world leaders to unite national academies of sciences under totalitarian UN control to avoid possible nuclear annihilation because they were obviously, “Better Red Than Dead“!
Then a Nobel Prize was given to Yukawa for a seriously flawed NEUTRON-PROTON model of the nucleus that:
1. Ignored Chadwick’s 1932 discovery: The NEUTRON is a compacted form of the hydrogen atom, a proton-electron pair in close combination;
2. Promoted Weizsacker’s seriously flawed 1935 definition of “nuclear binding energy” and
3. Violated Einstein’s 1905 discovery and Aston’s 1922 confirmation that rest mass (m) of atoms is stored energy (E):
E = mc^2
22
I don’t mean to be pedantic but denying climate change is a bit unrealistic. You might leave yourself open to semantic ridicule from the gotcha greens. The earths climate has been changing since the beginning of creation. The question is why climate changes and the timescales involved. I am a skeptic, who questions the assertion that the earths climate is changing as a result of CO2 emissions since the industrial revolution circa 1750.
60
I see your point of view. However most people start by ceding Climate Change, CO2 is a greenhouse gas, CO2 is going up because of fossil fuels. The first needs some sort of evidence, the second is not enough without amplification from water vapour and the third is not true. If you are arguing science, it is not contrarian or provocative or unreasonable to start with the facts.
41
Jannie: Here’s something which has been conveniently overlooked by the ‘warmists’.
The Kӧppen classification of climate was devised by a German climatologist, Wladimir Kӧppen (1846-1940). According to texts I’ve read, it has been the best known and most used climate classification system for decades, and describes the UK for example as having a humid middle latitude, mild winter or Marine West Coast (Cfb) type of climate.
What the Cfb coding means is that the average temperature of the coldest month is under 18⁰C and above -3⁰C.
No month is above 22⁰C, and at least four are over 10⁰C.
A wide range of temperatures indeed!
Thus it was in 2016, and also back in 1659 as seen for example in the Central England Temperature Record (CET), the world’s oldest temperature record.
All this variation has always been seen regardless of the small increase in concentration of the trace gas over which so much fuss has been made, and the fractional variations in temperature which have been attributed to it.
It’s now 2017. Which country has changed has changed its climate as defined by the Köppen classification?
We’ve now reached the bizarre situation where typical foul weather is referred to as ‘extreme’, and an ‘impact of climate change’ – yet Greg Carbin of America’s National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration (NOAA) has for example pointed out that tornado counts vary considerably from year to year, the apparent increase being due to enhanced public awareness, population growth, and improvements in detection technology. Despite this, the official tornado count in the USA is going down – from 1691 in 2011, 939 in 2012, and 898 in 2013.
Real world figures show little to support the notion of a climatic Armageddon. The Central England Temperature Record (CET) which is available on line from the Met Office shows that in recent years, there has been a cluster of annual average readings slightly over 10⁰C. Such temperatures are not however unusual, and are seen in the record on many occasions as far back as the 1700s. The year’s average for 2013 was 9.56⁰C, a typical value in the CET, which stretches back to 1659.
Where, then, is the dangerous warming?
41
EXACTLY!
Climate by its very definition is REGIONAL! Reference to “Earth’s climate” is a nonsense identical to reference to “Earth’s currency” or “Earth’s language”.
For the past decade it has been used to refer to temperature. Why? Because “Earth’s average temperature” is meaningless nonsense, impossible to determine for reasons mathematical as well as thermodynamic.
To discuss “climate change” is double nonsense. Truly Orwellian duckspeak. Quack quack! In order to determine whether or not some parameter has “changed” it is necessary to have a metric. The only reasonable metric for a CLIMATE is a classification system.
If one compares the regional of the planet classified in the Koppen-Geiger system there have been few minor changes over the past hundred years. Some regions of a specific classification may have grown larger or smaller, and that is about the sum total of it.
There is another classification system called TREWARTHA. The classifications are determined by the characteristics of a REGION’s vegetation.
Here we can see some changes in the past few decades which are ALL POSITIVE! The planet is 10% more lush with vegetation.
41
Excellent points Carbon500, and I am glad that some people can dig into the technical details and deal with data, not emotional slogan. I am not a scientist or even technically minded, and cannot properly understand a great part of the debate – so thank heavens for Jo Nova and the techies to deal with the mumbo jumbo.
I am however well read in history, and confirm a few points in the argument . For example there were a number of “ice fairs” held on the Thames river in the 17th and 18th century, when the river froze deep into the tidal zone. During this period glaciers grew larger in many European mountain valleys, the documented recession of these glaciers was one of the key planks of evidence used by warmists to “prove” modern CAGW.
And then in Roman Britain it is documented that wine grapes were grown in southern England, using Mediterranean vines (not modern cold adapted cultivars). Unfirtunately we don’t have photographs of sunny mountain valleys in Europe at the time. But we do know that increased sunshine and growing seasons in this period led to a massive increase in population of the various ice people’s in Northern Europe, who eventually manifested as Barbarians challenging the Romans and Vikings colonising the known world.
The Romans also gave us a good tip to be remembered in evaluating arguments and evidence, where evidence is obfuscated by experts who insist little people should not be heard. Cui Bono? Who benefits? In other words, follow the money trail.
40
Rod Stuart and Jannie: thanks for your comments.
The letter below regarding what was going on before the satellite era is interesting. It appeared on page 23 in the UK’s ‘Sunday Telegraph’ newspaper, on Tuesday October 1st 2013, and came from Captain Derek Blacker RN (retd), Director of Naval Oceanography and Meteorology 1982-84:
“SIR – I was a meteorologist during the Seventies when glaciers in Europe and other continents in Europe had been growing for the previous ten years, and pack ice had been increasing during winters to cover almost all of the Denmark Strait between Iceland and Greenland. Scientists were then warning that the Earth could be entering another ice age.
The current deliberations of the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change (IPCC) have conveniently overlooked this. Before insisting that humans have been the main cause of global warming an explanation of this apparent anomaly should be promulgated.”
In connection with this letter, a look at information supplied by the Icelandic Meteorological Office is interesting. During the first two decades of the twentieth century, ‘heavy sea ice was quite common along the coasts of Iceland, but in the 1920s a drastic change occurred. Sea ice along the coasts of Iceland became an uncommon characteristic and almost a forgotten phenomenon around the middle of the century. An abrupt change occurred in the mid-1960s. Heavy sea ice distribution occurred almost each year following, but since 1980 widespread and long-lasting sea ice off Iceland took place (sic) at rather irregular intervals’.
Nothing is as simple and cut and dried as the ‘warmists’ would have us believe!
20
The trouble with things of a cyclical nature and a long period is that it exceeds the attention span of your average greenie.
I am older than Carbon500 and I too recall the winters in the 60’s and 70’s. Sometimes one would wake up in the morning to find the car entirely buried in new snow. (Winnipeg, Manitoba). I lived in Prince George, BC for several years in the 70’s during which it was necessary to shovel the roof or it would cave in.
I grew up on a farm in South Central Manitoba, and my father kept a “crop diary”. Things recorded pertained to farm operations, such as the date and seed applied to each quarter section, the date each was sprayed with insecticide or herbicide, dates and times and amounts of rain , hail, sleet, snow, etc. (Yes some years we harvested sunflowers or flax in the snow).
In the 1920’s, and especially the 1930’s, seeding operations began in late March, or early April at the latest. Harvest operations started some times in late July, or early August at the latest. These dates gradually converged as time marched on, until in the early 70’s planting didn’t get underway until May, and harvest operations no earlier than mid September. It is advancement in crop genetics as time marched on that allowed a shorter growing season. Farming operations using large machinery rather than Percherons made it possible to get the fall work done before freeze up. The so-called “late twentieth century warming” didn’t reverse this trend in dates to any significant extent, so far as I know. (I left the farm and he sold it in 1975) This information, so far aas I am concerned, illustrates the cyclical nature of the weather, and at the same time reinforces in my mind the contention of Tony Heller that in actual fact it has become cooler ever so gradually since 1940. The sheeples belive that it is warmer only because of the deception, the homogenisation, the adjustments, of the records of temperature which is a nonsensical attempt to establish “warmer” or “cooler”. (more or less enthalpy). Early man believed in the power of human sacrifice. The Greeks and Romans thought their world was managed by stone “gods”. Modern man bows down to the IPCC and has apparently failed to learn a blessed thing.
20
Conservative skeps like me are afraid to be “seen as weak in the face of the environmental left”? I’m a raging peacenik, for God’s sake, and happy to be seen as weak by the globocrats currently balkanising and shredding the Middle East after popping the cork out of a seething North Africa. (As for the McCain/Clinton establishment’s enthusiasm for a winter offensive against Russia over “hacking”…even Plantagenets could find better pretexts for launching their wars.)
If I want to look weak I know how to do that and enjoy it. Call me weak, please. I’m just not buying the whole warmist Holocene-denial thing…okay?
51
22 Feb: DailyCaller: Michael Bastasch: EPA Employee Claims ‘Forces’ Murdering Eco-Activists Abroad Will Get Stronger Under Trump
A unnamed EPA official published a lengthy screed online against the Trump administration, claiming the “same forces” allegedly behind the deaths of environmentalists abroad are “working against us in the US today.”
Environmental journalist Eric Holthaus published an essay by an EPA employee (LINK TO ARTICLE ON MOTHER JONES WEBSITE) “who requested anonymity out of fear of retribution by the administration,” criticizing the Trump administration for wanting to roll back regulations and devolve more authority to the states.
The EPA employee wrote the essay shortly after the Senate confirmed Administrator Scott Pruitt last week. The employee not only vowed to resist President Donald Trump’s agenda, but also claimed the “forces” behind the deaths of environmental activists abroad are “poised to grow even stronger.”…
Holthaus is also one of the main agitators behind a movement to download government climate data based on the fear Trump could delete it. Holthaus admitted to attending ***therapy sessions to help him cope with Trump’s election victory…
http://dailycallernewsfoundation.org/2017/02/22/epa-employee-claims-forces-murdering-eco-activists-abroad-will-get-stronger-under-trump/
17 Feb: LiveScience: Sara G. Miller: Climate Change Could Have Wide-Ranging Effects on Mental Health
ATLANTA — Climate change may have surprising and wide-ranging effects on mental health, experts say.
That’s because climate change is both a root cause of mental health crises and a “threat multiplier,” meaning that it makes existing mental health problems worse, said Dr. Lise Van Susteren, a psychiatrist in private practice and an advisory board member for the Center for Health and the Global Environment at the Harvard T.H. Chan School of Public Health…
Van Susteren spoke about the connection between climate change and mental health yesterday (Feb. 16) here at the Climate & Health Meeting, a gathering of experts from public health organizations, universities and advocacy groups that focused on the health impacts of climate change. [5 Ways Climate Change Will Affect Your Health]…
“Not everything that counts can be counted,” she said. Rather, there are “insidious” effects of climate change that could cause psychological strain on a societal level that will be hard to overcome, she said.
In one case, a 17-year-old boy in Australia developed such distress over climate change that he wound up hospitalized, Van Susteren said. The doctors who treated him called his condition “climate change delusion” in their report of his case, which was published in 2009 in the Australian and New Zealand Journal of Psychiatry (LINK). The boy had refused to drink water because he believed that it would cause millions of people in the drought-ridden country to die…
In her talk, Van Susteren stressed the need to take action on climate change; if action is not taken, she said, it will have profound effects on other children’s mental health as well.
http://www.livescience.com/57931-climate-change-mental-health.html
links to the following…but it’s not CAGW that causes the “distress” for this anonymous boy, rather it’s reading about CAGW on the internet that does it!
2009: Austn & NZ Journal of Psychiatry: Water, water, everywhere, nor any drop to drink: climate change delusion
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22 Feb: AFGE: EPA Union Responds to Pruitt’s Introductory Press Conference
WASHINGTON – AFGE commended newly-confirmed Administrator Scott Pruitt for opening a dialogue with frontline workers on his first day at the Environmental Protection Agency.
“I am eager to see if Administrator Pruitt stands by his commitment to seek out guidance from the people who have dedicated their life’s work to protecting America’s air and water,” said AFGE National President J. David Cox Sr. “EPA workers have been made a scapegoat for many of our country’s problems, when in fact, they have only been protecting and serving the American people by keeping our water clean to drink and our air safe to breathe.”
The Trump Administration has made it clear it plans to massively scale back the work of the EPA, which would be detrimental to the environmental and economic health of communities across the country. In yesterday’s speech, Pruitt hinted that he plans to shift some of the agency’s work to state-run partners…
AFGE Council 238 President John O’Grady: “Right now, not only is the Agency understaffed, but so are our state partners, and any plans to hand-off control to states without addressing that will have massive implications on the work we do.”…
https://www.afge.org/publication/epa-union-responds-to-pruitts-introductory-press-conference/
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Well if some actually is dumb enough to believe Trump will introduce a carbon tax then one might as well believe he will introduce Sharia Law as well. The world is certainly full of really dumb people that are even more dumb than those who are members of the Flat Earth Society.
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Just heard last week during NSW energy shortfall the AEMO requested that Victoriastan shut down power to Bendigo and Ballarat , the vic minister responsible apparently threw a hissy fit and told them go elsewhere .
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That might explain why AGL Energy asked Tomago Aluminium Smelter (near Newcastle) to shut down for a few hours to avoid NSW being blacked out during the heatwave.
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Raises some prickly questions if the report is true that’s for sure , namely if we’re tapped out on hot days now , what happens when Hazelwood shuts down .
My insider info told me last year when Hazelwood shuts the first hot / cold day would mean blackouts and the state government is well aware of it .
I guess they will just use the excuse book Jay Weatherill has used , let’s face it half the labor voters and all the green voters believe whatever their told , and now sadly I guess half the Libs will too .
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Possible. Lily D’Ambrosio could well do a hissyn fit. Do you have a reference?
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Morning Peter C,
This is rhe ABC version. I reckon she’ll come to regret her comment sometime soon. As early as April 1.
( Not just because that’s April fools day, but because it’s the day after 25% of her state’s power source closes, called Hazelwood.)
http://www.abc.net.au/news/2017-02-23/energy-operator-told-victorian-power-could-not-be-used-for-nsw/8297628
Cheers,
Dave B
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The link for the above .
http://www.abc.net.au/news/2017-02-23/energy-operator-told-victorian-power-could-not-be-used-for-nsw/8297628
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Excellent.
Thanks Rob. I can use that in my revised submission to the Finkel Enquiry.
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Also this:
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“The Victorian Government has told the national energy operator “under no circumstances” could it cut power to regional centres in order to keep New South Wales operating during a recent heatwave.”
Oh I really hope that comes back to bite them HARD after the closure of Hazelwood 🙂
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Please sir may I have a bowl of electrons ?
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Can we have that statement framed and posted in parliament and the offices of all Honourable Members.
It sounds like a very good reason to NOT close down all of the NSW Coal fired generators.
KK
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G’day Robert R,
Your link wasn’t in view as I posted my belated duplicate above…
Cheers,
D
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Glad to help , this is a subject for not only SA to worry about .
Starting to shop around for a diesel generator which I will get wired in so it starts as soon as power goes down , where I live in Victoriastan we get our power from The snowy hydro scheme in NSW , which I find ironic .
Third world power is on its way thanks to green and labor ideology and liberal chase the inner city vote mentality .
It’s a shame that science is being ignored in favour of vote chasing .
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Thanks Rob.
Votes will evaporate if we can get the messsage out. Can we stop this disaster. Not sure but at least it has become an issue.
Re the Snowy scheme. I think is 1/3 owned by Victoria. They took our water to build it.
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Just to remind everyone of Robyn Williams, degree in physics and ABC science guru and can double for Tom Jones as a singer, in 2007.
Andrew Bolt: I ask you, Robyn, 100 metres in the next century…do you really think that? Robyn Williams: It is possible, yes. The increase of melting that they’ve noticed in Greenland and the amount that we’ve seen from the western part of Antarctica, if those increases of three times the expected rate continue, it will be huge.
1 metre a year every year in sea rise! So in the last ten years the sea in Sydney should have risen 5-10 metres. We would have noticed. Even Al Gore’s 6 metres would be half a meter by now.
It is not enough to say this year is hotter than last year by 0.01C. Who cares?
So I would ask again, where is the rapid, life ending, runaway, tipping point warming, where is the massive sea rise, where is the drought in Perth, where is the Climate Change? Why was a man who studied dead kangaroos made Australian of the year? Why was he given a Climate Commission and made chief Climate Commissioner?
Where is Flannery’s angry summer, where is his climate change? It has been freezing.
Why are we paying billions in taxes overseas to buy solar panels and windmills to prevent something of which there has been not the slightest sign in the last 30 years? Why are politicians in the Victorian parliament on both sides of politics agreeing to prohibit fracking? When did politicians on both sides of politics become caring principled science driven Greens? Or is it all a lie?
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The Money, The Money and
The Money.
“Billions overseas” to buy windmills and solar panels which basically are there to give an ILLUSION of renewable power.
The Enormous Cost was borne by, you guessed it, Madam et Monsieur taxpayer.
How Many hundreds of millions did Julia and Julie send to the U.N.?
How Many jobs have politicians done away with on a whim to appease the gods of global warming and how many more are soon to follow.
Alcan, ‘Coca-Cola, Whyalla?, and is BHP soon to up-anchor.
Is there a manager in the house?
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The more I look at the “Renewable Energy Act (Electricity) 2000” then more I am amazed at how utterly devious it is. The whole thing is written without mentioning Carbon, Carbon Dioxide and certainly not a Carbon Tax. Everyone has to pay. Certificates. Mandatory redemption. A fake trading market. A huge Carbon Tax in every electricity bill.
Consider you are in South Australia and you generate your own power now. One day the authority will come to your door wanting you to buy carbon certificates. You may in fact owe a lot of back taxes, whether a house hold, a shop or a farm. That diesel generator running all day at 5kwhr means 44Megawatt hours over a year. At $89 a MWHR that is $4,000 a year in SGCs. So if you have been running your refrigerators in South Australia for five years, you will owe $20,000. Plus fines for avoidance of course. Plus GST. This money goes to windmill manufacturers, who send it overseas.
While politicians talk about a Carbon Tax, we already have one, against the explicit wishes of most Australians at the last two elections. In 2015 the parliament decided to make it a Renewable Energy Target, again deceit. What target? There is no way of reaching the target except turning off the coal and gas power generators.
It’s a wonder South Australia is not at 100% renewables. Gas is just as crippled and Enegie is refusing to turn on Pelican Point because it lost $15Million in a year. So will our State taxes again be used to subsidize necessary gas generators and hide the massive taxes in our electricity bills?
Remove the RET. There is no ‘Energy Market’. We have one of the world’s giant Carbon Taxes. Renewable Energy Tax.
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We The Peeple or is that Sheep’s, need to know about this pricing “anomaly”.
In a country like ours which has so much going for it we should be able to get to near zero unemployment.
Problem is we suffer from political distortions of enormous magnitude. We have been dudded.
The background cost of this deeply hidden carbon tax is that we just can’t compete with the rest of the world in manufacturing, and have seen jobs exported overseas.
The degree of theft must be quantified and relentlessly placed in front of the public.
They will be more than a little upset and vote angry.
KK
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Cant wait for weekend unfreded!!! From WUWT
Peter Gardner February 23, 2017 at 2:59 am
(Will “The thermal field strength (radiance), not some energy, is a function of frequency, temperature, and surface qualities of any material surface. Such field strength is not power, flux, nor energy, it is but a potential for power transfer.”)
Peter,
You seem to be an anti-coal troll with no science education\experience! Can you point out any error in my description of normalized EM field strength?
“If that were true a hot body in space would never cool. Or are you saying it cools only because its radiated energy is absorbed by all the other objects of finite mass in space?”
It is obvious that you have never even bothered to look at Maxwell’s equations (22 of them), let alone even try to understand such. My above only separates the concept of electromagnetic field strength from the concept of electromagnetic flux. The two may seem the same, but are distinct, one never precludes the other, and both are required for the delivery of electromagnetic power to a remote location independent of any mass or sensible heat.
“Stefan-Boltzmann Law as q = σ T4 A (1)”
You used to call that Boltzmann’s Law!! Why the change? There is no such Law! Ask either Dr. Stefan or Dr. Boltzmann. Again:
(Will “The S-B equation with some difference within (parenthesis) carefully predicts the maximum possible one way thermal EMR flux between two mass ‘surfaces’ due to ‘temperature’. With no temperature ‘difference’ there is no thermal EMR flux in either direction.”)
“σ = 5.6703 10-8 (W/m2K4) – The Stefan-Boltzmann Constant”
5.6703 10-8 (W/m2K4) – Is Stefan’s Constant! Boltzmann constant = 8.6173303(50)×10−5 eV/K!
Why not go some where, anywhere, and buy a clue?
“If an hot object is radiating energy to its cooler surroundings the net radiation heat loss rate can be expressed as q = ε σ (Th4 – Tc4) Ac (3)”
Phi (uppercase Φ, Thermal EM flux = ε σ (Th4 – Tc4) is the mathematical expression for the S-B equation described above. Such can be the maximum one way EM radiative heat loss rate, from the higher temperature object; but only if such EMR flux is entirely powered by the sensible heat of that hot object! This is Maxwell’s concession to the 2nd law of thermodynamics. Insolation is only partially powered by sensible heat. As long as the Sun is powered by nuclear fusion to alpha particles; no one can determine the actual value of insolation! What you can never demonstrate, even once, is any thermal EM flux ever being emitted in the opposing direction. Without such demonstration the entire ‘GHE fantasy’ scientifically falls on its face!
“These factors raise issues about applying the theory in practice but do not alter the theory.”
What you call theory I call fantasy! All you need is one demonstration of thermal EMR flux being generated in the direction of higher electromagnetic ‘radiance’ at any frequency!
“Perhaps it is just how we each describe this, but even though it was a while ago I remember my professors at Cambridge were very clear about this. And it was long before the AGW nonsense, so they were not in any way biased.”
Your lecturers were spouting the nonsense of Goody & Young as was copied and presented from the errors of Dr. Bose!
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Mods and Joanne, Peter Gardner is one of the warmest candidates from East Gippsland AU!
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To continue,
Peter Gardner February 22, 2017 at 4:48 am
“It is all utterly fascinating, models played a part but fundamentally I still don’t know the answer. Perhaps we cannot improve on Einstein’s masterful insight:
“Only two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity””
Peter, you have so improved such! Now we have the infinity of Peter Gardner’s trash, should he survive!!
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Hi Will,
I have not seen Peter Gardeners output but it appears that he is invoking the holy of holies, the S-B equation.
I really can’t be bothered re reading the stuff above but I will say this: all, and I mean all the warmers who invoke SB have no idea how to use it. They seem to believe it has magical properties that give absolute values.
It only ever gives relative values and then only after careful calibration by experiment in situ.
KK
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KinkyKeith February 24, 2017 at 2:04 pm
“Hi Will, I have not seen Peter Gardeners output but it appears that he is invoking the holy of holies, the S-B equation.”
Keith,
For Electro=Optical Engineers The (S=B) is one of the of the two holies! The other is ‘radiance\ brightens! If you ever get more than (S-B) allows or if ‘brightness”, ever increases through your optics; Yust bend way over and, etc-etera etc-etera!
In industry, co-workers will rescue you before anyone important notices! OTOH yous still gets to buy da next round!
“I really can’t be bothered re reading the stuff above but I will say this: all, and I mean all the warmers who invoke SB have no idea how to use it. They seem to believe it has magical properties that give absolute values.’
HOKAY! I tink I have forgotten more about IR electro-optics den all da Climate Clowns will ever learn. OTOH how ’bout dat yonder snake dat never misses?
All the best! -will-
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“We’ve got to build the confidence of the right so that they can send the tribal leaders down to the river to meet with the other tribe’s leaders,” Mr Inglis said.
Sorry, but at this point only shrunken heads and strings of teeth will do (metaphorically speaking, of course). But that plump Inglis-man, we have a pot just his size. We’ll invite him to dinner.
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