By Jo Nova
It could have been so much worse
A Mercedes Benz EV started smoking in an underground carpark in Incheon, South Korea last Thursday at 6:15am. After the immolation, 40 other cars were burnt and another hundred suffered some damage. At least 16 people were taken to hospital for smoke inhalation. Some 48o households lost electricity, and later 121 people had to be relocated. It apparently burned for eight hours. Allegedly, eighty fire engines (or pieces of equipment) turned up with 177 firefighters. Some 209 residents were in the apartment at the time, and “nearly half” were rescued by firefighters from stairs and balconies.
The investigation is ongoing… but there are many puzzles. It wasn’t a cheap car, it wasn’t charging and had been sitting in that spot for 59 hours and nothing apparently triggered the blaze.
Not surprisingly, there are reports that residents in other Seoul apartment blocks are moving to ban electric vehicles from their basement carparks.
EV-phobia spreads, as police investigate cause of electric car explosion
The Nation
Incheon police on Tuesday said it is investigating what caused the mysterious explosion of an electric car last week, but some apartment residents in the greater Seoul area are already moving to ban electric vehicles from their underground parking lots.
Insurance companies will be watching on warily. Who pays when your car crash destroys 40 cars, and damages another hundred?
There are perhaps some clues though:
Mercedes-Benz EQE Fire Incident Raises Questions About Chinese EV Battery Safety
Michael Herh, Business Korea
According to the Ministry of Land, Infrastructure and Transport and the battery industry, the battery cell of the Mercedes-Benz EQE sedan that caught fire was a product of China’s Farasis. This battery is of the Nickel-Cobalt-Manganese (NCM) type, though the exact model name has not been disclosed.
Founded in 2009, Farasis achieved sales of $2.32 billion last year, ranking 10th globally in terms of sales and shipment volume. In 2018, Farasis signed a 10-year battery supply contract with Daimler, the parent company of Mercedes-Benz, and in 2020, Mercedes-Benz acquired about a 3% stake in Farasis to jointly develop batteries. In March 2021, China’s state-owned Beijing Automotive Group (BAIC) recalled 31,963 electric vehicles equipped with Farasis batteries, citing “the possibility of battery fires …”
Pick your carpark carefully (and your apartment block.)
I wonder if incidents like these are the reason why, in Australia, most people I have spoken to have said that their home, home contents and car insurances have gone up dramatically, by up to 40% with no obvious change in the risk factors of the individuals?
Insurance companies are anticipating a lot of future expensive EV-related claims like house fires or self-combusting cars.
We already know how EVs are often declared to be insurance write-offs from minor collisions due to possible undetected damage to the battery.
If so, these higher insurance rates represent another “green” subsidy causing everyone to suffer.
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NSW floods? EV batteries have hardly hit the ground yet.
And If I lived in a highrise, I would fight to keep EVs out of my underground car park. I wouldn’t fancy the fear of waking at 2 am to find myself on top of a pyre.
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House & Contents Insurance
34.8% increase 2023
29.1% increase 2024
besides Gas, Electricity, NSW Labor Govt Land Tax, Food & Petrol horrendous increases!
Thanks Labor, both Federal & State
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And the clowns try to convince us that inflation is only 3.8%.
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The CPI is based on a “fixed basket of goods”. It would be very interesting to know what is in that basket, but I haven’t been able to turn it up Googling around. Why is it such a secret do you think?
I mentioned here recently how, years ago, they’d left out *mortgage* and *petrol* and filled the basket with lots and lots of bananas instead. Then there was great consternation about the effect on inflation when a storm took out many of Queensland’s banana plantations.
I’m sure today it’s still a pure bureaucratic number, with no sensible meaning outside the bureaucracy. Exactly like global surface temperature.
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Everyone I know who does their own shopping realises the true rate of inflation is much higher than the official rate of 3.8%, previously 3.6%.
Most people estimate 25-30%, more in many cases.
The official rate is a complete lie and represents nothing real. The only people who might believe the BS are people who are completely disconnected from reality, like politicians and senior public serpents.
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All the rest of the inflation is surely “. Not observable “ under lie ing inflation.
Under lie ing inflation can be lied about at any time because the public don’t appear to able to see it. That’s convenient isn’t it.
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Here’s a table of goods that might indicate what it’s based on.
https://www.abs.gov.au/methodologies/guide-consumer-price-index-17th-series-methodology/2017
Other info
https://www.abs.gov.au/statistics/economy/price-indexes-and-inflation/guide-consumer-price-index-17th-series/latest-release
https://www.abs.gov.au/statistics/detailed-methodology-information/concepts-sources-methods/consumer-price-index-concepts-sources-and-methods/2018
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Thanks Strop. I had poked around the ABS website, but thought “methodologies” would be about methods rather than specific data.
Still, as you suggest, it’s hardly a basket you could go out and price. Reading around (particularly this page), it looks to me like the whole “basket” metaphor is misleading. I might be wrong. Their writing style seems intended mostly to impress with how scholarly they are; it would all be much clearer with a data flow diagramme (or the like).
Firstly, the “basket” is worked out from what vendors sold, not what individuals bought. That might affect the mix a bit with groceries, probably quite a bit more with furniture.
Secondly, the basket is not a basket at all. It’s listed in generic groups: so much on “cakes and biscuits”, not so many Tim Tams, so many Ginger Nuts, etc. Seems extremely unlikely that a researcher equipped with the raw data and the methodology would be able to reproduce the results (a la Hockey Stick). This from 10.7 in the document for example:
The time honoured tradition of pulling numbers out of the air.
Lastly, and most importantly, this doesn’t appear to be an inflation index at all. If it’s simply based on what has been spent, people reducing their consumption will lower the index. The low numbers are likely just a result of belt-tightening. The basket that used to have caviar now has corned beef. The cost of living hasn’t gone up so much, but don’t ask how far the standard of living has fallen.
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In the USA, I believe it is no longer (many changes since 80’s and 90’s) based on a fixed basket of goods. A number of economists (John Williams for example) believe inflation is understated by at least 3% compared to formulas used in the 90’s by government in USA. So, the 2.5% inflation may really be 6%, etc.
The changes were introduced under both parties, supposedly to make it more accurate. But, if inflation is understated, that favors incumbents of all parties. It also means the government pays out less in Social Security and other programs that are indexed to inflation.
They use formulas that may understate inflation by, for example, comparing the performance of a computer (or iPhone) to its price – so that even thought the price went up 12%, since the performance went up 11%, the inflation on the laptop is only 1%. And they use substitutions such that if hamburger went up 7% but steak only went up 5% then the inflation is less than 7% in that category, etc. With a little research, one can find the exact data as the above are meant only as illustrations of the process they use.
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GDP growth last quarter was 0.1%
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The Sydney City Council have these mini EV Rubbish Collector vehicles meandering up and down George Street emptying the rubbish bins.
On the side of the EV mini vehicles, it says, or words to the effect – This is an EV vehicle so you can breathe easier. I await the first fire with toxic chemicals spilling out into the CBD. And then I await “Clover No More’s” (Mayor of Sydney) response.
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As Australian Government policy continues to force Australians out of traditional single occupancy homes on quarter acre blocks, and into Chinese-style ultra high density high rise apartment blocks, issues such as the above will become more common.
Ultimately, of course, the Lib/Lab/Green Uniparty want to abolish private car ownership altogether unless we can elect conservative governments. The risk of EV fires will be the excuse they use to ban private car ownership by non-Elites.
High rise, high density living is all in accord with WEF policies of which Australia is a fanatical and utterly compliant, unquestioning follower.
https://www.weforum.org/agenda/2023/08/citys-skyline-index-sustainability-inclusive/
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We need to rethink cities completely David. I wish we had an intelligent government that would invest billions in cheap and reliable utilities and decentralisation. But all we get is a public service explosion and unbridled migration to massage the economic numbers. The population has fallen off a cliff- way below replacement value. And we have policies based on outright lies (Glowbull warming, COVID Dempanic) that are not allowed to be rebutted.
The pioneers that settled Australia in the first half of the century had 8.5 children per family (on average). Some of those kids did not survive childhood, but if they did they lived to 80-90. The generations after that dropped to 5 children per family. Now we are dished up what I term “Futile Sexuality” which effectively stops population growth.
The Australia economy is based on Iron Ore and Coal. We need to value add to that!
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One of my grandmothers had 12 kids. The other had 9.
Both died at 42.
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Simon,
we have added 3 + 9 from 2 People
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2 = 12 within 40-50 years so after 65,000 years of continuous “ownership” where are all the bones?
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Now under water, out on the continental shelf and covered when the last Ice Age ended perhaps.
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We seem remarkably resistant to the idea of adding value, especially for such a resource rich country. I was lookiing at an article about manufacturing, which was bemonaning the fact that the UK had dropped out of the top ten manufacturing countries in the world. The artcle listed the top 15, which was Ireland. Australia nowhere to be seen.
I understand comparative advantage, guns and butter and all that, however to be an isolated country dependent on shipping for the most basic needs is fraught with peril.
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That’s been said for over 200 years now. I’ve had lefties ululate about it to my face.
Yet coal (both coking and thermal) and iron ore still keep the country afloat, although only just.
So repeating the “add value” comment is pointless without any practical additions. When lefties do that, we call it “virtue signalling”.
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All Australians will benefit from the Coalition’s balanced energy mix of renewables + gas + nuclear to replace Labor’s expensive and failing all-eggs-in-one-basket renewables only approach. Shifting to nuclear will keep an always-on source of 24/7 baseload power in the system to drive prices down and keep the lights on while we decarbonise.
However, introducing zero-emissions nuclear energy will do more than solve the problems created by Labor.
Zero-emissions nuclear energy will re-energise the Australian economy, build our sovereign capability, and set the nation up for a new era of economic prosperity with cheap, clean and consistent 24/7 power.
At the front of this next wave of growth will be those communities which host modern zero-emissions nuclear plants.
Each of these communities will receive a benefits package which will be enshrined in legislation, including:
A multi-billion dollar facility guaranteeing high-paying jobs for generations to come
A zero-emissions nuclear plant will provide thousands of high paying jobs for coal power station workers, along with opportunities for local businesses to provide goods and services in the construction and operational phases, injecting millions of dollars into the local economy for up to 100 years.
An integrated economic development zone attracting manufacturing, value-add and high-tech industry
New industrial zones will be established and anchored to zero-emissions nuclear plants, enabling host communities to offer Australia’s cheapest, cleanest and most consistent 24/7 power, attracting:
High value manufacturing (e.g. defence and other speciality equipment, smelting);
Mineral processing (e.g. critical mineral processing and speciality metal refining);
High-tech sectors (e.g. datacentres).
Zone tenants will pay lower wholesale electricity prices and avoid network costs because they will have a direct power connection to the plant.
A regional deal unlocking investment in modern infrastructure, services and community priorities
Regional deals will unlock investment in local priorities across three areas:
Infrastructure (e.g. new or upgraded projects in air, road, rail, port, telecommunications, housing);
Public services (e.g. new or improved hospitals, schools, water, sewage and transport); and
Community (e.g. new investment fund with earnings distributed to community groups).
The regional deals will be negotiated between the local community and the Federal Government, with input from State and Local Governments.
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All very true except the ‘until we decarbonise’ statement. A confected non-problem, doesn’t need to happen at all……
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Coal (both coking and thermal) and iron ore still keep the country afloat.
That’s what attracts vultures.
Back to the topic, EVs are apparently half-phoenixes. They self-immolate, but don’t get reborn yet.
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I wonder who is behind the push to get us to buy these coffins on wheels, is it the WEF.
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There is no real push to get you to buy EVs. That is just the narrative.
The real push is for digital slaves to not own any means of personal transport, for you to live in overcrowded “15 minute” digital gulags, own nothing and eat zee bugs.
The good news is that those who think themselves “elite” and their lick-spittle lackies believe that they will still get personal transport and real food.
Solzhenitsyn knew the right solution. But back then he thought the enslavers had to be delt with when they came to your door.
When every personal vehicle on the road is owned by an “elite” or someone prepared to lick their boots, Solzhenitsyn’s teaching becomes Oh-So-Easy to implement.
Solzhenitsyn
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They didn’t abolish my right to own two vehicles. They abolished my licence to drive them. In bizarre fashion!
The medics wrote a vague report mentioning an Occupational Therapy Driving Test. So RMS demanded that I do one. (And noone told me the fee would be $1,150).
So they gave me a phone number for Dubbo, the nearest at 140 kms away, couldn’t do it for at least 3 months. Filled in an internet form for Orange, 180 km, no prompt reply. Tried Wollongong, 330 km, yair, righto, 11:30 am in a few days. Rang back a bit later, could I make that 2:30 pm? OK, says I, never dreaming that that put the job into school time, with the roads cluttered with kids and buses and mothers of multiple kids. (There turned out to be lots of schools on our test route.)
So Daughter 2 drove us down the 330 km and I went for the test. First the interview, that was OK. Then out to the car. A nice i30, parked at a crazy angle tail down in a steep driveway. We can do that, but it sets a tone for the test.
I soon had trouble. The accelerator seemed to be playing up. Getting power seemed to be a lucky dip exercise, sometimes too little, sometimes foo much. I found this quite disconcerting. Not being familiar with the vehicle I had decided that this must have been a characteristic of the very popular vehicle that drivers get used to. Then it blew me away!
Instructed to turn left at an intersection from a very low speed, I commenced to make the turn. The vehicle did not respond to my depressing the accelerator. Then, after a delay, it responded with a full throttle “vroom” that catapulted the car into the intersection, with a car approaching from the left. Had that car been closer we would have hit it.
This event was not mentioned in the copy of the report that I have.
Receipt of a copy of the report after returning home gave us an explanation for our problems, both big and small, including the “vroom” event. The car was fitted with a dual braking system. Dual braking systems override the throttle control.
This might not have mattered, but quite clearly, unbeknown to me, the instructor bloke was fiddling his dual brakes while I was doing a driving test. After which the Occupational Therapy bloke declared that the problems were caused by my dementia, so my licence should be cancelled.
I appealed to the court, but couldn’t hear what was being said. I did hear the beak say “These are professional people, you know”.
The biggest problem I fear is that the public record now says that I am demented. In the event of any dispute arising that would make things hard for me.
I recommend for anybody sent for one of these tests to 1, Insist on using your own car. 2 if that is not allowed, insist that nobody interfere with the controls while you are doing the test.
And shouldabin 1. Negotiate a lower fee.
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Why is it policy? You have masses of space. What’s to be gained by forcing everyone into high rise? Are people just accepting this?
Are there any rules about charging underground although n this case the vehicle didn’t seem to be charging. That’s quite serious if people can’t even park underground.
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Tony, Australia has masses of space but there is no incentive for companies to move to country areas where real estate prices might be less as labor costs are the same because of universal award wages. Thus, in the US someone in a remote area might get paid less than a city dweller, but housing would also be correspondingly less so they can still have a decent standard of living. That doesn’t happen in Australia. The person gets paid the same as the city dweller. In addition, the labour force is highly inflexible and unwilling to move to where work is, in general. Plus, infrastructure for irrigation and roads suffers a lack of investment, especially now as all possible resources are being ploughed (and wasted) in all things green such as wind, solar and Big Battery plantations. It’s a tragedy.
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A very easy government incentive would be to have geographic Tax zones. Imagine a top tax rate of 15% if asked to work remotely!
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Already there: https://www.ato.gov.au/calculators-and-tools/tax-offsets-australian-zones
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A lot of people are happy with highrise. The capital cost is surely lower. Travelling costs would be lower. Maintenance costs would be lower. Time taken in travel to work would be lower if the location is chosen with that in mind.
But listen to the squealing when the air conditioners and the lifts black out!
However the reason why people are forced into EVs is that That Is The Plan.
As for rules for charging, that has to come. Imperative!
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My principal reason for not wanting an apartment is the uncertainty of increasing management/body corporate fees. I have heard of several cases on the Gold Coat where retirees moved into new apartment blocks only to be hit with big increases in fees which are not only unaffordable but impact the owners’ ability to sell by making the units financially unattractive. They ended up more or less trapped in expensive accommodation.
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Some of us oldies move into residences with a lot less to look after by choice, myself included. Best move I made was to shift out of my house of 46 years into a newer townhouse. Had over half a big shed full of property maintenance items, now down to a bucket and a few hand garden tools. But I too would be concerned if somebody was to buy an EV and house it in one of our adjacent garages.
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Who are the actual “drivers” of all this madness?
What is the “end-game”?
And now a word or two from some dead bloke:
“A nation can survive its fools, and even the ambitious. But it cannot survive treason from within. An enemy at the gates is less formidable, for he is known and carries his banner openly. But the traitor moves amongst those within the gate freely, his sly whispers rustling through all the alleys, heard in the very halls of government itself. For the traitor appears not a traitor; he speaks in accents familiar to his victims, and he wears their face and their arguments, he appeals to the baseness that lies deep in the hearts of all men. He rots the soul of a nation, he works secretly and unknown in the night to undermine the pillars of the city, he infects the body politic so that it can no longer resist. A murderer is less to fear”
Marcus Tullius Cicero.
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Just like some other recent products:
™️Safe And Effective™️
Boom-boom!
/ tongue-in-cheek
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Greg, you will appreciate Steve Kirsch’s latest paper which demonstrates NO SAFETY and NO EFFICACY of the “Safe and Effective”. All the claims are absolute garbage. In an ideal world the people behind this would be Jailed/Committed.
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Truth is severely compromised on the COVIID issue, because the appropriate penalties for what people in high places did range from loss of face to incarceration.
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We keep hearing these terrible stories of very dangerous EVs, yet the Aussie govts are actually promoting and wasting taxpayers money on these dangerous,toxic , expensive disasters.
I will never, ever buy one of these loony, dangerous toys and I doubt the sanity of anyone who does waste money on them.
But hybrids are probably a much better choice, although I’m presently very happy with my cheap and reliable ICE car. Go ICE cars for safety and reliability.
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Hybrids could be an excellent choice, if only their development wasn’t hampered by the full EV mass psychosis.
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>South Korea after a Mercedes EV spontaneously combusts
Mercedes EV in Korea.
Mercedes EVs in Germany:
Germany’s EV Sales Sink 37% As Subsidies End
https://www.zerohedge.com/technology/germanys-ev-sales-sink-37-subsidies-end
So, not apartment basement EV self-combustion, then.
“Subsidies End” seems to be a pre-emptive relief.
Except for all those aging EVs in the apartment basements.
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I have owned two ICE Mercedes and they were not that reliable – I would not expect their EVs to be any more reliable.
The b*stards wanted to charge me $5000 just to replace a faulty electronic ignition key!
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Heh – You won’t believe this Mercedes-Benz customer support ‘fail’ – Auto Expert John Cadogan
and there is more
https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=john+cadogan+on+mercedes
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https://group.mercedes-benz.com/responsibility/employees/diversity-inclusion.html#:
Nothing about seeking to achieve engineering excellence!
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Say what?!
“physical and mental abilities… play no part”
in their employment decisions.
Whatever happened to Quality Control…
R I P
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The reason why you buy Korean or Japanese Made Vehicles
As my Japanese Friends say we are 97.8% Homogeneous
In 2005, then-Foreign Minister Taro Aso declared that Japan was a country of “one nation, one civilization, one language, one culture and one race”. He was not the first Japanese politician to use those terms.
Meanwhile
Korea is 97% homogeneous
According to various sources, South Korea is considered one of the most ethnically homogeneous nations in the world. The majority of the population, approximately 97%, shares a common ethnicity and ancestry.
This homogeneity is attributed to the country’s historical isolationism, particularly during the Joseon Dynasty (1392-1910), when Korea maintained limited diplomatic relations with foreign nations. Additionally, the Korean War (1950-1953) and subsequent decades of economic development and urbanization have not significantly diluted the population’s ethnic makeup
So on a Production Line, everyone can speak to each other.
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Manganese….. ok
30
Even a more stupid choice would be to buy a SH EV that has some battery life remaining and the extra problematic risks involved.
In just a few years you may have to replace the battery if the older and more dangerous battery doesn’t cause a fire before you make the move.
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I have recently been in touch with my rural council’s Transport Officer about purple ebikes littering the pavements. She has reassured me that regarding charging stations for electric vehicles, all regulations are being followed. I am emailing her a link to this article, since our town has just opened a multistoried car park including charge stations. Regulations meant little in the above Korean example.
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You just have to wonder how these idiot things got approval to litter our towns footpaths, some serious greasing of Councils palms must be involved.
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What makes you think that Council Officers actually go around their suburb and check things?
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JUSTICE GORSUCH ON THE ADMINISTRATIVE STATE
It was more than ten years ago that we first reported here on the bizarre case of amateur magician Marty Hehne, who ran afoul of the federal bureaucracy over his pet rabbit.
OUR DISASTROUS BUREAUCRATS
wherein Justice Gorsuch retold and updated the Hahne story with several new details I didn’t know about:
French: Oh, I was going to ask you about the rabbit disaster plan. So please, Justice Gorsuch, tell us about the rabbit disaster plan.
Gorsuch: But Marty Hahne, he does children’s shows, birthday shows. So he pulls the rabbit out of the hat one day, and somebody in the audience comes up to him, flashes a badge, says, “I’m from the U.S. Department of Agriculture. Do you have a license for your rabbit?” Marty says, “No, do I need a license?” And they get into a conversation. He doesn’t need a license if it’s an iguana, but he does because it’s a rabbit, and you don’t need a license if you’re going to cook the rabbit for dinner. So I could make rabbit stew in front of you, and I’d be like, “Yeah, that’s fine,” but you need a license if you’re going to exhibit.
And he definitely exhibits the rabbit. So he gets a license. He wants to comply. He’s not trying to do anything wrong. He fills out the paperwork and he does it. And he gets a follow-up from the government, saying after Hurricane Katrina, they decide everybody who exhibits animals now has to have a disaster-preparedness plan. And you have to account for everything from hurricanes, obviously, after Hurricane Katrina to chemical spills. And Marty says, he says this to an agent, “Well, I live in Missouri, and I do worry about tornadoes, and my disaster-preparedness plan is to get the family in the basement, then the dog, then the cat. If there’s time, I’ll get the rabbit.”
Well, that didn’t go over very well.
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Well, that didn’t go over very well.
French: So the rabbit was behind the cat. Well, there’s your problem.
Gorsuch: That’s the problem. The government doesn’t care about the cat and the dog, cares only about the rabbit. So he hires a disaster management expert, and they come up with a disaster-preparedness plan that’s 28 pages long. The expert is a little worried because he’s not sure that’s long enough to satisfy the federal government.
Hahne also has to submit to home inspections. And during one of the home inspections, the agent notices the cage where the rabbit’s kept doesn’t have an arrow sticker pointing “This way up.” And he says, “Well, how do you know how to carry the rabbit?” And Marty says, “Well, there’s a handle on the top, and that’s how I carry the rabbit.” He said, “No, no, you’ve got to have a sticker.” He says, “Well, where do I get the stickers?” “So I’ll send you some.” Two weeks later, 200 stickers show up in the mail.
Your tax dollars at work.
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You go and fill in a pothole that’s been there for a year and see! 😆😆😆
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Interesting video regarding e-bikes in China.
As well as the littering issue, they are not a good use of resources when over-supplied/faulty/etc
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=49xQ2sTkjwM
Hundreds of Thousands of Shared Bikes Pile Up, China’s Largest Bike Graveyard Shocks the World
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The love affair for all electric cars is going down in …. flames as the fires of reality comes in with a rush on the buyers who should be looking at Toyota Prius a far better buy which can satisfy the concerned citizens smaller impact on the environment.
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Might have to demolish the apartment block after a fire of 40cars, especially if a third of them get to be electrics. Didn’t the LandRover fire in the airport burn a hole through the floor?
Fire ratings in the asbestos era were for 2hours, long enough to get the people out, then they didn’t worry about the structural integrity of any steel.
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As EVs go out of favour, the poseurs, virtue signalers and subsidy harvesters will be looking for something to replace them.
These will be hydrogen and ammonia powered vehicles.
Hydrogen is extremely dangerous and a nightmare as a fuel, even for NASA, and requires cryogenic containment and special materials to avoid hydrogen embrittlement and ammonia also needs special materials and is highly toxic.
As Donald Trump said, “everything woke turns to sh-t”.
Not surprisingly, there are plenty of subsidies to be harvested in the Stupid Country.
https://www.dcceew.gov.au/energy/hydrogen
https://www.sbs.com.au/nitv/article/first-nations-green-hydrogen-project-wins-federal-grant/1swuj41og
https://www.dcceew.gov.au/energy/hydrogen/hydrogen-headstart-program
https://ammoniaenergy.org/articles/government-industry-collaboration-to-boost-ammonia-production-in-australia/
I prefer my hydrogen to be attached to a carbon backbone.
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An EV fire in a basement is bad enough but wait until a tank of hydrogen leaks out and deflagrates in an enclosed space!
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Fortunately my near neighbours are conservative, sensible and anti-woke and are very unlikely to buy an EV. So EV fire hazards in my immediate vicinity are lessened.
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Fuel is a concentrated form of energy that under the wrong conditions will go ” bang”. So, no different if it’s a 600 kg lithium battery pack or 60 litres of unleaded petrol. We were never allowed to store fuel for high rise underground car parks and refuel in situ, so we should never be allowed to recharge any BPV (EV) transport device in similar situations. But unfortunately, as we found during COVID, crap products and policies get mandated and forced on us. So, the same here, with governments bent on mandating higher BPV use and then you have “green” councils being the enforcers. Not that the Mercedes in this situation was apparently being charged, but have a look at my above comparison. 600 kg battery pack for a BPV vs 60 L ( roughly ) for an ICE vehicle. There’s 10 x more material that needs to be extinguished in the event of a fire. So doesn’t mater if it’s being recharged or malfunctioning, there’s the possibility of a 10x greater fire that has to be controlled by emergency services.
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Stanley Steamers for the win?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hgH88xrYdE4
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It is generally possible to put out a fossil fuel fire with several options for how to do it and often with little experience of fire-fighting (e.g. car extinguisher, garden hose)
An EV battery fire – run for your life and watch the real firies for several hours waiting for it to burn itself out.
Your 10X estimate should probably be 100X
80
Ross,
The correct ratio is 20:1, not 10:1 as the ICE tank weighs about 25 kg on average only.
The shear madness of battery vehicle madness (from my, an extreme green engineer view) is that those parasitic 475 kg are needlessly carried forever everywhere.
Does not matter where electricity comes from and how much it costs – it is kgs multiplied by kms converted into heat !
I am all for electric vehicles – maybe in future when a 25 kg battery is invented.
70
? So you are concerned about the energy (heat) wasted by carrying around extra weight of the battery ?
An EV uses about 25 kWh of energy to travel 100km
Whilst an ICE will use over 200 kWh of energy ( @6.0 L/100km) for the same 100km !
..where do you think most of that 200kWh of energy goes ?…wasted as .HEAT !
00
Chad, thanks. So you think the original idea to nearly double the weight of a vehicle was a healthy one?
My car uses 11 L / 100 km, which is about 350 kWh converted to heat. Generally I prefer to walk or ride the bike.
Unfortunately the use of cars and trucks is as inevitable as … you know what.
I am concerned about absolute hypocrisy of warmists cult as well as growth of entropy which hastens the death of Universe.
10
EV are not double the weight of ICEs, some are within 1-200 kg of their ice equivalent.
But yes, it would be nice to have batteries that are lighter, compact, cheaper, and safer….. but they dont exist yet.
I wont buy a EV until the prices are more sensible and charging is more convenient, but i do encouurage anyone who want tobuy one to go for it.
…EV usage reduces the use of oil for transport and helps preserve oil resources for more essential uses where ther are no practical alternatives.
00
Residents of the building were without power for five days, that’s grounds for a lynching.
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Being in those buildings without electricity is basically hell. You realise quickly how much you rely on electricity when perched up in one of those. The electricity is literally the air you breathe.
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I have friends in SK at the moment and they are complaining about the 40C+ temps. I imagine being in a high-rise with no power would be hellish.
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Just another lithium battery fire . Its been widely known for some time among body corporate property managers that this risk was bad and the kicker is that the risk increases with the age of the battery . Their insurance is becoming very expensive which will in turn will make apartments much less attractive as an investment or living space . There are no viable suppression systems for these fires other than flooding . The recall on the LG batteries is a clear signal…..
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The operators of the Tasmanian Ferry assure us however that EVs are perfectly safe down there on the car decks while you are bobbing around in the middle of Bass Strait.
They have “special arrangements” apparently. Some say its a sprinkler system that dispenses Brawndo, others that their parking spots are actually slides that tip them out into the ocean. Who knows, we have just been told they are special.
Tassie has become fly/drive for me until something changes.
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Good grief. I was just checking to see if there was any update on the Tassie ferry and I stumbled across this.
An electric ferry with 400 tons of batteries on board.
https://electrek.co/2023/01/17/worlds-largest-electric-ferry-can-transport-you-and-2000-friends/
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400 tons of batteries, eek, I await with interest to read about one of these things to go up in flames, especially seeing as it is made of aluminium, with in itself is combustible under the right circumstances as the Poms found out in the Falklands War.
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Ronin,
It will be self extinguishing (when it sinks). You would not want to be onboard or downwind before that . Considering the amount of toxic metals it will be an ecological disaster too . I wonder what their insurance cost is ? I doubt Lloyds would touch it…
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EVs continue to burn when submerged.
https://youtu.be/cUVZR7OIelk
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Is that what our UN expert was predicting with his “boiling oceans”?
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Range is 100nm. Tasmanian ferry route to Tasmania from the mainland is 242nm. It will only be used in places where a 200nm range is appropriate.
They got a taxpayer grant of $5.25 million, hence their “second thoughts” when they decided to go electric instead of LNG.
And there is a reason why aluminium ships went out of favour after the Falklands War.
How long will it take to charge, and as Australia continues to shut down the power stations where will the electricity come from and how much will it cost?
Will they use diesel generators to charge it?
https://www.aumanufacturing.com.au/tasmanian-government-announces-5-25-million-grant-for-incats-expansion
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I meant “where a 100nm range is appropriate”, not 200nm.
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>Range is 100nm
Tripped my eye alert system – nanometres?
Nautical miles?
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Barbeque-bus set to fail?
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If that thing lights off with the violence we have all seen when batteries do their best impersonation of thermite, there will be almost zero chance for the passengers. If they manage to jump overboard without being burnt that will be a best-case scenario. Life boats will be out of the question.
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Is that the same as the one at Parliament house?
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Different hibernation experiments, similar outcomes.
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All those who drive I.C.E.s,
Had better not park near E.V.s,
Which may smoke and ignite,
Leave a basement bombsite,
And a run on the A.& E.s.
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I wrote this in the Monday comments section 29th January 2024.
It is relevant to today’s topic.
I explain why – in the linked post below.
https://joannenova.com.au/2024/01/monday-38/#comment-2730293
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We stayed in the Sky tower in Brisbane, and on the survey put down how we were concerned about the number of EVs in the basement carpark. They didn’t dismiss it either in their reply to us.
Very uneasy feeling when you are literally up the higher end of those things hoping everything is alright down below. I certainly looked at where the fire exits were, something I never do otherwise.
Fantastic building though if you want a few nights away.
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Of course, Chinese “quality control” (ie total lack thereof) is well known, but things are going to change imminently and the crapola manufacturers will be going away.
China launches major update on battery production regulation
China’s industrial regulator plans to launch a major document to guide the production capacity of lithium-ion batteries, which industry experts said will knock out a batch of low-end battery cells and accelerate the structural adjustment of the country’s booming lithium-ion battery sector.
Mo Ke, founder and president of market consultancy RealLi, said there is some “structural excess” in the lithium-ion battery sector, with insufficient high-quality production capacity but excess low-end production capacity.
“China’s latest guideline will drive the lithium-ion battery industry to be healthier and more high-end, which will further help the nation’s new-energy vehicles gain a more favorable competitive advantage in the global market,” he said.
https://www.chinadaily.com.cn/a/202405/09/WS663c745ca31082fc043c62f9.html
Cheap Battery Risks And Why New Laws Mean Their Days Are Numbered
..compliance laws are changing so that using them in future will be almost impossible if you’re selling in major world markets such as the EU and USA.
Thermal runaway begins at 150 degrees C on good-quality batteries but can start when batteries reach temperatures of as little as 40 degrees C (in the case of poor-quality batteries). Li-ion batteries burn at 500 degrees C (932 F) which is enough to melt steel and thermal runaway can’t be easily stopped once it has started.
Not only are cheap batteries and products a risk in the home but also upon disposal, too. 85% of Li-ion batteries go to landfill, so there’s the risk of thermal runaway in the ground and hydrofluoric acid seeping into the groundwater.
So health and safety, design, material extraction, and end of use for batteries are all connected and need to be covered by a very robust set of compliance requirements that we do not currently get.
The upcoming battery regulation is a key driver for product safety. It demands supply chain transparency, including who makes the battery cells, the packing, and where the materials come from, and this information must appear on the product.
UN 38.3 (TRANSPORTATION TESTING FOR LITHIUM-ION BATTERIES)
puts batteries through testing aimed at replicating the stresses they will go through during international transportation, such as vibration, shock, altitude, impact, forced discharge, and more. It’s required if batteries are to be shipped internationally.
IATF 16949 is the standard for automotive parts that go into vehicles and drives manufacturers of such parts to put in place a quality management system that will detect issues and reduce the risks of parts hitting the market being unsafe. Personal mobility products like e-bikes and scooters are not covered by this (yet). However, Clive believes that the new regulations coming in 2025 will mean that they are treated exactly the same as any other vehicle if they go on the public highway. This is likely to force a lot of manufacturers of cheap, non-compliant batteries out of the market which is the intention.
https://qualityinspection.org/cheap-battery-risks-and-new-compliance-laws/
But China being forced to make quality products and still be viable and affordable will be interesting…
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Not long now before they start restricting EVs by number allowed although even one, it seems, can decimate the contents of a subsurface parking facility! Multistory CPs do not fair much better a conflagration is a conflagration no matter where you park!
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Our local hospital and specialist consulting centre has an extensive underground carpark. I estimate around 30% of the vehicle’s are EVs. A few top end and mid range like Tesla and Kia and a few of the lower cost variety with Chinese brands. An uncontrollable blaze in the basement would cause lots of problems for the multi-story hospital above.
Members of the medical profession buying EVs and parking them under the hospital are acting against the Geneva Declaration that the AMA has adopted.
There is possibly enough open air parking at the grounds to cattier for the EVs but it would mean the occasional dash for cover when there is rain.
The international insurance company I worked for would not insure any facility using expand polystyrene insulation for fire. I am certain there will be some difficulty getting fire cover for enclosed car parks housing EVs. If the EV fire risk is low then owners could probably reduce their premiums by having fire excluded as an insurable risk,
Insurance is aimed at covering unforeseeable events. It is becoming apparent that EV fires in enclosed car parks are uncontrollable. Hence heavy losses are foreseeable. The usuall sprinkler systems are no going to control these fires because they are deep seated and intense.
I have believed that insurance industry would kill off the EV fad. My prediction is materialising. The fact that Australian Standards saw fit to locate household batteries in fire isolated areas some years ago indicates the risk is well known and considered unacceptable.
https://www.erac.gov.au/wp-content/uploads/2021/03/Battery_Energy_Storage_System_02Feb2021.pdf
A BESS is less prone to wear and tear than EV batteries so places for parking EVs should be even more rigorous.
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Driving through the City of Grafton NSW recently I noticed driving past the Fire Station, but could not stop and read all details, a large sign including the fire hazard presented by lithium ion batteries.
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At work, our site management team had their four Company issued diesel dual cab Utes changed out for EV’s by the very woke Corporate decision makers.
3 EV charging stations were installed to facilitate them. Where did management locate the chargers? In the middle of a long semi enclosed carpark / carport for all site employee vehicles. So if an EV decides to self combust many other cars either side of it are likely to also go up in flames or be heat/smoke damaged.
An employee raised a Hazard Report of the charging being a potential fire hazard, this was shortly after the site manager received the first EV and a temporary charge point was installed with a long cable draped over a fence to enable it to be powered up, of course the Hazard report has never been mentioned by management..
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However, in the event of an inquiry in future the hazard report and action taken, if any, could be a problem.
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https://www.armstrongeconomics.com/international-news/politics/hunger-protests-in-nigeria/
No, it’s not Australia, it’s Africa, although..
So go buy that chinese EV!
Priorities. Save the planet first, dine on bugs in the cold second.
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When do we start describing EV explosions as “fiery but peaceful”?
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Maybe that’s a slogan for funeral homes?
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Battery fires matter
Carbon-neutral conflagration
Net zero car bonfire
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Destroying the world to save the world is OK so long as the people driving this insanity get very, very rich.
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Without us Plebs and Worker Drones, the Rich World cannot work. I give you Bangladesh as an example of where the people just say NO.
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