JoNova

A science presenter, writer, speaker & former TV host; author of The Skeptic's Handbook (over 200,000 copies distributed & available in 15 languages).


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Rand Paul’s master performance: ‘You Sir, Are The One Ignoring Science’

People with science on their side don’t need to use namecalling  like “flat earthers” .

Rand Paul slices and dices Xavier Becerra, the Secretary of the Department of Health and Human Services

He hasn’t read that study of 2.5 million people, but at 4:45 he says:  “our team has reviewed every study that’s out there”.

Why is there such a push to vaccinate those with natural immunity?

Winter is coming and the “experts” want to sack the very healthcare staff that risked their lives, caught covid and are now immune to it?

H/t Bill in AZ

9.8 out of 10 based on 96 ratings

181 comments to Rand Paul’s master performance: ‘You Sir, Are The One Ignoring Science’

  • #
    Simon

    Employees who have recovered from COVID should have to pass an antibody test if they refuse the vaccine. That’s not current US health policy, but maybe it should be. It is however an almost irrelevant argument in Australia and New Zealand as so few of the population have had exposure to the virus.

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    • #
      Scissor

      Why should one not be allowed to make one’s own medical decisions if they are of age and sound mind?

      990

    • #
      Craig

      “…so few of the population have had exposure to the virus”. How do you know that Simon? Where is that medical fact that so few has been exposed to the virus? I’ll bet my favourite piece of sporting equipment, that in the first wave of the virus in 2020, and every other wave after, that a truck load of Australians had been exposed, were asymptomatic in the community and now have natural immunity.

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      • #
        clarence.t

        And by the time the general population are exposed to the Delta strain, the vaccines will be in the waning stage, and have very little efficacy, even exacerbating the CV-19 due to ADE.

        The next few months will be quite interesting !

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        • #
          Lawrie

          The downside of “keeping us safe” is that we avoided getting the Wuflu and thus the natural antibodies. The upside is that many older, more prone Australians stayed healthy and avoided hospital and death. As the brakes come off we will be exposed to Delta or Echo or Zulu variant which may well be worse and for which the vaccines will not be effective. What then? Ivermectin or Pfizers new improved and vastly more expensive Ivermectin?

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          • #
            OldOzzie

            Pfizer’s COVID Pill Ought To Work. Here’s Why. (And Some Good News About Merck’s Molnupiravir)

            From the Comments

            Just a new label on the cure that is vilified 24/7…. Will be called Pfizermerkin $

            Although Pfizer’s new drug is NOT the same as ivermectin, both are protease inhibitors. As to your opening remarks…

            “Antiviral drug development for COVID-19 took a back seat to vaccines during the brief time – when we thought that ending the pandemic was simply a matter of getting enough needles in enough arms. But the virus had other ideas: variants. Now it’s looking like we may need a drug to complement the vaccines.”

            That statement is historically accurate, of course, but there were many at the time who wondered why therapies were lacking AND who reminded the morons in charge that coronaviruses mutate like hell. That’s why there has never been a successful vaccine for a coronavirus–including the present ones. You know, if you want them to do what vaccines are expected to do: Prevent illness and transmission.

            It seems pretty obvious that dollars–and not medical science–are driving the SARS-CoV-2 train.

            Ivermectin is an ion channel blocker. It is NOT a protease inhibitor. It is not an anti-viral, but rather a poison for parasites — you know, tapeworm and such. Stop spreading misinformation.

            and take your own advice

            Exploring the binding efficacy of ivermectin against the key proteins of SARS-CoV-2 pathogenesis: an in silico approach

            Results: Ivermectin was found as a blocker of viral replicase, protease and human TMPRSS2, which could be the biophysical basis behind its antiviral efficiency. The antiviral action and ADMET profile of ivermectin was on par with the currently used anticorona drugs such as hydroxychloroquine and remdesivir. Conclusion: Our study enlightens the candidature of ivermectin as an effective drug for treating COVID-19.

            Ahhhh, so now Pfizer and friends will try to invent Ivermectin, one of the most successful ANTI VIRAL drugs, that even won a Nobel Prize, in history. Over 6 billion doses and only 28 adverse reactions recorded.

            The first world countries have been played. India, Africa, a lot of Latin America, and now Japan got it right with Ivermectin as an anti viral medicine.

            320

            • #
              Mark Kaiser

              From the link to the study “Exploring the binding efficacy….”

              “Aim: COVID-19 is currently the biggest threat to mankind.”

              Wow. What a setup line. There’s just too many choices.

              I thought Climate Change was. Or Donald Trump. Or Racism. Or Russia. I guess those are so “last week”

              I’m still waiting for the Space Aliens threat.

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              • #
                clarence.t

                “I thought Climate Change was !”

                The biggest threat to the world from “Climate Change” is the response to it.. ie.. the decimation of reliable energy supply systems.

                “COVID-19 is currently the biggest threat to mankind”

                Again, it is possible that the biggest threat to mankind from Covid, is the response to it .ie the vaccines.

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            • #
              Serp

              They’re kidding, Pfizer pubic wig has to be a laugh the reader of the press release mistakenly took seriously, merkin yeah.

              40

      • #
        Strop

        Where is that medical fact that so few has been exposed to the virus? I’ll bet my favourite piece of sporting equipment, that in the first wave of the virus in 2020, and every other wave after, that a truck load of Australians had been exposed, were asymptomatic in the community and now have natural immunity.

        Obviously the same question can be asked of your opinion. Where is the medical fact that supports your opinion?

        We have known statistics. They support the idea that Australia’s population is low in covid cases.

        What we don’t know is how under reported covid cases are. You assert a large under reporting.

        If the statistics are wrong and you are right, that a “truck load” of Aussies have natural immunity from the various outbreaks. Then why are the case numbers now high in the same areas as they were high last time, and low in the same areas as last time? (This is prob more applicable to Vic having had multiple outbreaks)

        It seems more likely that the stats are reasonably representative of the situation. Otherwise we would have seen lower numbers in the previous high case areas second or fifth time around due to natural immunity from the high unreported spread you assert.

        The stats and the spread pattern don’t really support your assertion.

        We can be reasonably confident that Tas, WA, SA, NT, and also QLD have had little community transmission.

        53

        • #
          Graeme No.3

          So with the warmer weather and easing of restrictions, the number of Covid cases will drop (as seen overseas). The authorities will remove most restrictions (remember elections are coming) and around the end of March next year we will have a big outbreak?

          40

        • #
          Strop

          In case it’s relevant to my above comment #1.2.2

          I am opposed to compulsory vaccination and the state coercion via exclusion. I don’t make the above comment as an argument for forcing vaccinations. Simply as a comment I believe is relevant to the discussion. That the repeat pattern of covid spread suggests community spread immunity is not a lot different to the case stats.

          10

        • #
          Old Goat

          Strop,
          Consider: what ratios of cases to deaths ? Some of that could be due to natural immunity as well as the vaccine. Both would also produce a pool of asymtomatic cases . There are so many factors in analysing the true situation . The true picture would require antibody testing and no one is interested in that…..

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          • #
            Strop

            Yes, many factors.

            Vic had a higher death to case ratio in the major outbreak July-Sept 2020 because it was permitted to enter the aged care facilities on a wider scale than this time.
            Or maybe Delta is less deadly but more transmissible.

            Or vaccines work to prevent noticeable cases … but they don’t necessarily prevent cases. They do allow spread but we don’t know what reduction to spread they give, or increase to spread through probable asymptomatic cases.

            Lots of variables to wade through.

            00

          • #
            Serp

            The deaths attributed to covid is a figure I have not taken seriously since early last year; the true number is likely a single digit percentage of the hysterically inflated propaganda.

            100

            • #
              Bruce

              Even THEIR ABCESS is being a bit coy lately; occasionally referring to people who died WITH Kung Flu, not FROM it.

              They, of course, have been aware of this difference from the beginning. However, it is THEIR ABCESS.

              Watching them systematically twist marine biology and geology into po0litical pretzels is a daily event.

              POLITICAL “science” writ large.

              In true Alinsky fashion, EVERYTHING is bent to a political end. It’s how they “roll”.

              The insane political “responses” to these artificial crises are, collectively the REAL problem. Crisis management? More like “Management BY crisis”. There’s your paradigm shift for the day.

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    • #
      Destroyer D69

      A Covid antibody serum test is NOT available in Australia. I know this because I was denied one by my GP last week.1111

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    • #

      If someone is healed, recovered, he was exposed to the virus,so the total number of other exposed persons is irrelevant.

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    • #

      The better way is an antibodytest before vaxxing. Immunity by healing is far better than one of these vaxxes and doesn’t end after 6 month.

      190

    • #
      gowest

      In Australia we are being vaxed with genetically altered wuhan spike proteins to make our bodies produce antibodies for that virus. When the vaccinated get the Delta virus, they survive it, but they can still spread it and produce mutations. I fear for the children of the vaxed. Perhaps this explains the observed increase in cases whenever vax increases in a covid active environ. I also fear for the vaccinated – we still don’t know where the mRNA spike proteins go and what they do to the body, we do know that if they get into the bloodstream they can and do kill or cause long covid. A responsible TGA would have refused the out of date vaxines and demanded ones that worked properly – at least those sacrificed would have paid the price for a better reason than money!

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      • #

        When I got the first jab I thought I was about to die from a heart attack it was so bad. A couple of days later whilst walking back from my work shed I passed out hitting my head on the edge of a brick and splitting my forehead open to the bone. Drove to the local hospital and a Dr rather unfamiliar with a needle pulled it back together with two stitches of fishing line . No local anaesthetic hurt like hell.

        Things went down hill from then on, five days of no food because a Dr was coming, a Dr was coming, a Dr was coming to sew me up properly.
        Then after five days of no Dr I was transferred to a large hospital.A quarter of my skull is now totally numb.

        I would not now allow that Astra jab to be given to a mongrel dog, heads should roll to those that authorised that untested jab.

        It maybe a surprise to some that we have a constitution in OZ that forbids the compulsory covering of hair or face and forbids compulsory injections $5000 on the spot fine can be insisted upon for any of these infarctions.

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    • #

      Simon
      30% of the population are naturally immune and thus do not need any genetic treatment (these are NOT vaccines). What is the impact on them of the treatments?

      And given that the vast majority have no idea they have had covid we may have significant numbers here who are in fact recovered, and we know they will be at far greater risk of adverse impacts from these treatments

      Going further with this, as a Quality Assurance professional I never advise any client to “front run” testing and have many horror stories I can tell of when people decided to do this in the food industry. But here we are, rushing out treatments which the vast majority do not need and where we have no idea of what the long term consequences are.

      And past research on corona virus vaccines saw large numbers of animals dying after an initial period.

      This is mass insanity of the highest order. What if the animal test results are replicated over the coming years?

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    • #
      BRUCE MACKINNON

      We need to look at institutional colonisation and capture of regulators and academic faculties by big corporations who they are supposed to regulate and provide specialist opinion. When an easy cure such as Ivermectin is out of patent and costs little, while the corporations are selling poor quality ‘vaccines’ untested and dangerous, but getting $1,500 a course per person from governments, nearly a trillion dollars has been grabbed by big pharms when it should have cost very little to deal with this virus.

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      • #
        Kalm Keith

        “getting $1,500 a course”.

        If that’s true, it changes the picture.

        I was working on $50.

        Extraordinary.

        30

    • #
      Richard+C+(NZ)

      Simon >”Employees who have recovered from COVID should have to pass an antibody test if they refuse the vaccine”

      Covid-19: The Spartacus Letter

      “Vaccines will do more harm than good. The antigen that these vaccines are based on, SARS-CoV-2 Spike, is a toxic protein. SARS-CoV-2 may have ADE, or antibody-dependent enhancement; current antibodies may not neutralize future strains, but instead help them infect immune cells. Also, vaccinating during a pandemic with a leaky vaccine removes the evolutionary pressure for a virus to become less lethal.”

      Those un-“vaccinated” will not have to worry about this scenario whatever the test.

      But the “vaccinated” will have it hanging over them however.

      And a reminder from a medical dictionary (not the corrupt Left-wing Merriam Webster for example. Or CDC):

      vaccine [vak-sēn´]
      a suspension of attenuated or killed microorganisms (viruses, bacteria, or rickettsiae), administered for prevention, amelioration, or treatment of infectious diseases.

      Hence “vaccinated” above.

      40

  • #
    John Galt

    The hidden reason to vax everyone in the USA is that Big Pharma has bought government protection against lawsuits for damage by vaccines.
    There is no such protection for anyone against lawsuits for damages by a virus created by scum in government, Big Pharma, and other corrupt companies.
    If everyone is forced to take the vax, then the vax can be blamed for the damage and Fauci et al get away with genocide.

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    • #
      Rick C

      JG> It might have something to do with the fact that the US government (I.e. taxpayers) are paying for every jab. Vaxxing the 100,000,000 people who have immunity naturally is very profitable.

      360

  • #
    John+R+Smith

    “Why is there such a push to vaccinate those with natural immunity?”

    Because the vaccination program has nothing to do with immunizing.
    It’s about building the structure for the ‘program’.

    ‘Science’ left the building with Elvis.

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    • #
      M Allinson

      It’s about building the structure for the ‘program’.

      Exactly right.

      After all the obvious clues we have been given, I find it amazing that so many folks still appear to believe that this is a medical issue, or a Big Pharma dollar issue.

      It’s a Great Reset/Agenda 30 issue.

      And the real conspiracy theories all depend on pretending otherwise.

      410

    • #
      Brenda Spence

      Because the wrong people are making the decisions! Traditionally it was between a dr and the patient, now it is politicians and chief medical officers who are dictating medical procedures.

      Dr Robert Malone nailed it

      The press and media have no legal right to dictate the practice of medicine. No right to intimidate or coerce physicians or patients. No right to employ propaganda to advance economic interests of the pharmaceutical industry. We all must insist that this stop immediately.

      In early September there was a Global Medical Summit and over 9000 doctors got together and made a resolution to take back their jobs

      NOW THEREFORE, IT IS:

      RESOLVED, that the physician-patient relationship must be restored. The very heart of medicine is this relationship, which allows physicians to best understand their patients and their illnesses, to formulate treatments that give the best chance for success, while the patient is an active participant in their care. 

      RESOLVED, that the political intrusion into the practice of medicine and the physician/patient relationship must end. Physicians, and all health care providers, must be free to practice the art and science of medicine without fear of retribution, censorship, slander, or disciplinary action, including possible loss of licensure and hospital privileges, loss of insurance contracts and interference from government entities and organizations – which further prevent us from caring for patients in need. More than ever, the right and ability to exchange objective scientific findings, which further our understanding of disease, must be protected.

      RESOLVED, that physicians must defend their right to prescribe treatment, observing the tenet FIRST, DO NO HARM. Physicians shall not be restricted from prescribing safe and effective treatments. These restrictions continue to cause unnecessary sickness and death. The rights of patients, after being fully informed about the risks and benefits of each option, must be restored to receive those treatments.

      RESOLVED, that we invite physicians of the world and all health care providers to join us in this noble cause as we endeavor to restore trust, integrity and professionalism to the practice of medicine.

      RESOLVED, that we invite the scientists of the world, who are skilled in biomedical research and uphold the highest ethical and moral standards, to insist on their ability to conduct and publish objective, empirical research without fear of reprisal upon their careers, reputations and livelihoods.

      RESOLVED, that we invite patients, who believe in the importance of the physician-patient relationship and the ability to be active participants in their care, to demand access to science-based medical care.

      IN WITNESS WHEREOF, the undersigned has signed this Declaration as of the date first written.

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      • #
      • #
        M Allinson

        “The press and media have no legal right to dictate the practice of medicine. No right to intimidate or coerce physicians or patients. No right to employ propaganda to advance economic interests of the pharmaceutical industry. We all must insist that this stop immediately.”

        No, they have no right – but they won’t be letting that small detail stand in their way.

        Let’s now see if “resolutions” can be converted to actions.

        “The next move from the authorities, I suspect, will be to sack Doctors like this for “refusing to accept and follow the “science'”

        180

      • #
        OldOzzie

        Melbourne clinics busted selling Ivermectin as Covid treatment

        A drug that’s used to treat parasites in animals has popped up at multiple Melbourne clinics, prompting action from Australia’s medical regulator.

        Australia’s medical regulator has been forced to take action against numerous clinics caught advertising a potentially deadly drug for the treatment of Covid-19.

        It comes as the Sunday Herald Sun reveals hundreds of unproven drugs including Ivermectin, Hydroxychloroquine and Epherdra have been detected at the borders since the pandemic began.

        Ivermectin – a dewormer used primarily on large animals – has been pushed by anti-vaxxers and conspiracists as a treatment for Covid-19 despite global health experts ruling there is no evidence it is effective or safe.

        Shockingly, multiple Australian medical clinics have been caught advertising the drug for Covid-19 purposes, with some people also demanding it from vets and animal feed stores.

        The Thugs Goons Administration told the Sunday Herald Sun six cease and desist letters have been sent to Australian medical clinics which advertised Ivermectin to treat Covid-19.

        Sure Cell, which has clinics in Malvern, Camberwell and Armadale, was issued a letter in September for advertising $85 Ivermectin pills to treat Covid-19.

        The TGA would not confirm how many doctors were under investigation for prescribing Ivermectin but that they are actively “considering a very small number of concerns” related to registered practitioners providing scripts for non-evidence based treatments of Covid-19.

        Practitioners found in breach of medical codes and guidelines face serious penalties, including suspension or cancellation of their registration.

        Australian Border Force figures obtained by the Sunday Herald Sun reveal 611 doses of Ephera, 321 doses of Hydroxychloroquine and 12 doses of Ivermectin were detected at the border from January 2020 to July 31 this year.

        Imports of Ivermectin increased ten-fold in July and August this year and pharmacists reported a surge in people with Ivermectin scripts refusing to disclose what they were using it for.

        Ivermectin gained popularity after being touted as a “miracle cure” for Covid-19 in misinformation campaigns including on Telegram where users shared the details of doctors willing to prescribe it.

        Hydroxychloroquine, used to treat malaria, and the herb Epherdra, were previously hyped up.

        The worrying demand for Ivermectin led to national supply issues and the TGA in September restricted doctors from prescribing it for anything other than scabies and certain parasitic infections.

        The Australian Veterinary Association said it was “extremely concerned” about people self-dosing Ivermectin, especially when it’s been prepared for large animals.

        “We have had intermittent reports that veterinarians have had requests from people to dispense Ivermectin however with questioning it becomes apparent quite quickly when it is not intended for animal use and there is not supplied,” AVA’s Dr Cristy Secombe said.

        Dr Secombe said people are also trying to buy Ivermectin from livestock feed stores which is extremely dangerous as it’s formulated in much higher concentrations to treat animals far heavier than humans.

        They also often contain other drugs that are harmful to humans.

        “You should never use medications intended for animals on yourself,” she said.

        The ABF said it was determined to keep harmful products from reaching Australia.

        “Ongoing detections at the border can have a deterrent effect, which is why the ABF is focused on disrupting the entry of potentially harmful products from entering the community,” a spokeswoman said.

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        • #
          RightOverLabour

          Well if horse paste is so bloody dangerous, how come I have never felt healthier in the last month since I started taking it? Sorted a whole bunch of ailments with absolutely no apparent side effects. Anyway it’s one of the safest drugs in the world with huge overdose safety margins.

          140

        • #
          Richard+C+(NZ)

          >”Ivermectin – a dewormer used primarily on large animals”

          Well yes, probably is when used as a dewormer.

          But human use against malaria, dengue fever, onchocerciasis, helminthiases, and scabies for 35 years doesn’t count?

          And now against covid.

          240 million Uttar Pradesh humans don’t count? Worse, were duped by their government? Even though now virtually covid free?

          Ivermectin human success against covid in Mexico and Peru doesn’t count either?

          Just “large” animals with worms?

          50

  • #
    mike+reed

    Yeah I have seen this video before and its the tactics that are the same for smearing people who question “the science” for Global Warming aka Climate Change-first
    they insult and smear by name calling .In Climate Change Skeptics become Deniers -in mandated vaccination “science” people who question it become Flat Earthers.
    In Climate Change there is denial of certain facts or studies by climatologists and no debate and here in this exchange there is denial and no debate by Xavier Becerra.
    Iv’e seen two other renowned experts dumbfounded when they have run into these tactics -they are Dr Robert Malone (involved in the beginnings of study of Mrna technology) and Dr Peter Mcullogh (cardiologist at a Texas teaching hospital -Baylor Medical ) .Both have said that all their lives they believed in the scientific method
    -the heart of which is -everything is open to debate and questioning but now such an approach is met by low information and no qualification Factcheckers who deplatform
    these experts.
    Cheers Mike Reed

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    • #
      Lance

      “I’d rather have questions that cannot be answered, than answers that cannot be questioned”.

      Richard Feynman, Physicist

      300

      • #
        Lance

        Richard P. Feynman is a wonderful figure. Witty and Brilliant. Quotes:

        Don’t pay attention to “authorities,” think for yourself.

        Religion is a culture of faith; science is a culture of doubt.

        It doesn’t matter how beautiful your theory is, it doesn’t matter how smart you are. If it doesn’t agree with experiment, it’s wrong.

        There is no learning without having to pose a question. And a question requires doubt.

        160

  • #
    Rosco

    Rand Paul is courageous, knowledgeable and right on most issues I have seen him speak to. He doesn’t resort to ridiculous slander like most left wing idiots resort to.

    Perhaps a suitable POTUS candidate ?

    440

  • #
  • #
    Kalm Keith

    Rand Paul, a name I’ll remember.

    He highlighted the need to acknowledge the existence of natural immunity that so many Americans had acquired by contact with the spreading CV19 virus.

    There’s now herd immunity amongst a large proportion of the population.

    The one thing that I’m not sure of is his outright acceptance of “The Vaccine” in a manner that reminded me of Bjorn Lomborg: was it necessary to accept the CV19 vaccines in order to make the point about natural immunity?

    The story I get about the Vaxxines is that they give marginal benefit and that that benefit expires after six months.

    In all my long life I’ve always trusted vaccines, but since the advent of the “annual flu shot” and associated adverse reactions, I’ve been concerned.

    Now the CV19 VIP, Vaxxine Insertion Programme has brought serious concerns about adverse reactions which Officialdom seems to be ignoring or suppressing.

    Yesterday, I was told of a forty year old man who had taken his first CV19 jab O.K. but had been bedridden for 24 hours with “the chills” after the second; a common experience.

    What’s going on?

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    • #
      Graeme No.3

      K.K.
      As I understand it these ‘vaccines’ aren’t really a vaccine in the traditional meaning as something that eliminates you getting the disease, rather that they reduce the severity of the disease temporarily. You still get infected but you don’t seem to build natural immunity as the figures seem to show that the effects of “the vaccine” wear off and after 6 months you are again the target of the disease and can die.
      Whereas without “the vaccine” you have 3 possible outcomes – you don’t know that you have been infected (no symptoms), you become ill but usually recover or you die, particularly if you are elderly and have health issues as well.
      My question is which approach is safer?
      Not having “the vaccine” seems to risk a slightly higher chance of death, but afterwards you are OK. With “the vaccine” you have a lower chance of death initially, but after it wears off you are vulnerable again along with the side effects of “the vaccine”.

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      • #
        Kalm Keith

        One of the main problems, right from the start, has been the “Data”.

        The prize has always been covid deaths to fill media headlines and scare the hell out of the general population.

        In the early days both New York and a region of Italy were promoted as covid hot spots but their backgrounds were very different.

        The New Yorkers who succumbed to CV19 were a cohort in one of the richest areas of perhaps the richest country in the world and they had been nursed and cared for way beyond normal.
        They mostly, I believe, died of old age but may have been touched briefly by CV19 or were near another resident who actually had it. Recorded as CV19.

        The region in Italy that suffered was a well known zone for Chinese business activity and immigration records were not all that reliable. People came and went, especially from Wuhan. Surprise that there were CV19 deaths?

        The data is unreliable, but most worryingly is the data on Vaxxines with Adverse events studiously ignored and dismissed to allow the Vaxxines to be moved on into the community.

        Statistics is great when it’s done properly but I wouldn’t stake my life or future health on the so called “data” around Kovid19.

        My personal opinion is that more damage has been done to society by the Lockdowns than by the disease.

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      • #
        ghl

        The science is crap but someone is making money. Where have I seen that before?

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      • #
        RobB

        The answer to your question depends on your general health and age. E.g. if you’re under 40, the chance of surviving (the alpha variant) of covid is better than 99.9%. If you’re over 65, it’s worse than 98%. That can be compared with the chance of a (presently known) serious adverse effect of the vaccine roughly of the order of 0.001 (European data).
        Then there are non vaccine options for prophylaxis or treatment, e.g.:
        https://vladimirzelenkomd.com/treatment-protocol/
        https://covid19criticalcare.com/covid-19-protocols/i-mask-plus-protocol/
        You could try to smuggle HCQ or Ivermectin in, from Indiamart.
        Disclaimer : I’m not a medical doctor!

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      • #
        RightOverLabour

        That’s pretty much it, and remember the Delta variant seems far less pathogenic. 1000 cases in New Zealand and only one death ( would would probably have died anyway)… Most of the surprise cases are people arriving at hospital for unrelated issues who get routinely tested, and told, Oh by the way you have covid…..

        30

    • #
      another ian

      Remember the definition of what passes as a “vaccine” has been altered by CDC twice since 2015 and may be due for another go

      “I had a discussion with someone in the medical field on getting a Vaxx.

      I asked, is a vaccine supposed to neutralize a virus and stop it from being transmissible?

      Answer, Yes.

      My next question was, this Vaxx doesn’t, so is it an Inoculation instead?

      By definition, it is.

      Short term at that.”

      https://chiefio.wordpress.com/2021/09/03/w-o-o-d-3-september-2021/#comment-151303

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      • #
        Graeme No.3

        The other point is the hysteria about people NOT getting “the vaccine”. Why? If “the vaccine” protects you then it doesn’t matter if the “unvaxxed” are infected or not, regardless of whether they have any symptoms.
        It seems to me to be proof that “the vaccine” is useless, and that the Establishment know that is the case.

        290

        • #
          M Allinson

          But rather than admit they have been dudded, the vaxxed – encouraged by the authorities – would now prefer to re-direct their rage at those who were smart enough to question the vaxx.

          80

      • #
        ghl

        Nobody seems to have noticed that three companies achieved the impossible and developed vaccines in the same week after Biden was elected. What are the odds?

        220

        • #
          Chris

          Pfizer had developed their vaccine whilst Trump was still in the WH. However it was assumed that this would be a positive for Trump and held off announcing it until after the election.

          60

    • #
      Custer Van Cleef

      I’d like to see Pfizer release some more details on their Clinical trials… or have they done that already?

      They started with 40,000+ participants in July 2020. We had the 6-month summary that supposedly
      was good news for their vax.
      That was a while back. We’re now 14 months on from there. Where are the full-year results? Not something to gloat about, perhaps?
      It raises a red flag for me.

      190

      • #
        Ross

        There’s aspects of those initial vaccine clinical trials that the companies and indeed both the pharmaceutical companies and regulating bodies would not like to make public. For instance, just the basic methodology of the trials. This includes the participants which were not representative of the general community- a significant number were health workers, young and fit. The relatively low infection rate of the control (or placebo) group. The calculation of Relative risk (RR) vs Absolute Relative Risk (ARR) from this trial data which overrates the actual efficacy. The fact that in one study the “blindness” was not maintained because people in the treated group (real vaccine) received paracetamol post injection whereas the Control group did not. The fact that in general all pharmaceutical studies (drugs, vaccines etc) you only have to prove efficacy vs the Control group (treatment). While in other industries for efficacy trials not only do you have to prove significant efficacy vs Untreated but also equivalence to a known standard treatment. So, for COVID in the absence of an official standard treatment vaccine efficacy could have been compared to a group with Vitamin D/ Zinc supplements. Or maybe vs a group taking antibiotics. I wont even mention the fact that no long term studies looking at adverse effects have been completed to date. If I compare a dog wormer vs a human worm treatment (using similar chemistry but different actives) there is a hugely superior toxicological (tox) package for the dog product vs the human product which is provided for registration.

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        Earl

        But the clinical trials are the first stage where the “normal” started to morph into “abnormal”!!
        As I understand it the control groups for these “clinical trials” were “lost” when they all got the vax. Apparently after the first part of the trial the placebo groups were all so concerned at what was happening with covid that they all opted to get the “vax”. Hence not much additional data on the trials because there is no control group to report against.

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          Chris

          The hysteria against the unvaxxed may well be about having a control group which exposes the deception and dangers of the vaccination.

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      • #

        No use here…
        Pfizer vaccinated their control group so it is now totally impossible to make comparisons.

        This is criminal, but nobody is calling it out.

        Cynically the moves we see here and elsewhere trying to force all to “vaccinate” could be construed that the vaxxists want to have no control group around that can be referenced.

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          Custer Van Cleef

          We’ve still got “all cause mortality” to consider.
          That might be the best statistic left — one that offers indisputable data
          on how their participants fared, after they got the jab.

          Death is a binary state. You can argue about what counts as a Covid death (a dodgy PCR test
          within 28 days of succumbing to “something” ) but being deceased is definitive — hard to
          redefine that as something else.

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        • #
          Bruce

          Anyone who finds / publishes the actual body-count will probably quickly be added to it.

          When Trillions of dollars and huge power at stake, all bets are off.

          20

      • #
        beowulf

        Here a former Pfizer Employee and biotech analyst discusses the Pfizer biological licence submission with 85% redacted testing results / redacted ingredients listing / reactions to spike protein shedding / unconstitutional vax mandates being pushed on kids

        https://rumble.com/vn5r4r-biological-warfare-on-kids-mandates-impact-kids-down-to-age-6.html

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    • #
      amortiser

      It is not unusual for vaccine recipients to have a reaction. It’s the nature of the process to be given a more benign infection to create antibodies against the targeted dangerous infection. I remember my mother becoming quite sick from the smallpox vaccination. She was bedridden for nearly a week. The problem arises when the reactions are actually dangerous. For these vaccines there seems to be an increased incidence of serious conditions like blood clotting and life threatening cardiac issues to name just a couple. The fact that these conditions affect relatively young people who are typically not at risk from the virus should set off alarm bells.

      I recall as a child the tuberculosis vaccination campaign. Before vaccination, all children were given a skin test to determine whether they had been exposed to the disease and had natural immunity. Only those who has a negative test were vaccinated. As my father had suffered from the disease I had a strong reaction to the skin test and consequently was never vaccinated.

      Why this is not occurring with Covid is very strange indeed. Those infected and recovered from SARS (another Coronavirus) back in 2003 have been shown to still have strong immunity 18 years later. This is likely to be the case with Covid as well and this immunity applies to all strains. The vaccines were targeted to the Alpha strain and are proving much less effective against subsequent mutations. Rather than acting like a vaccine in the normally accepted sense ie conferring immunity to infection, it, at best, mitigates the symptoms. To insist that recovered Covid infected people be “vaccinated” makes no sense.

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        ando

        Just found out my 40yr old cousin (fit, healthy, black belt in karate) was hospitalised after his 2nd jab. Thought he was having a heart attack. A good friend <40 yrs old had bad chest pains after 1st jab and still has blurred vision in one eye. Girl at work has had a few family members suffer strokes post jab. Another case I know of, bloke is paralysed down one side of the body.
        A melb nurse called 3aw the other day – they are getting 20 vaccine related injuries turn up to hospital every hour. Anecdotal evidence seems to suggest way more heart problems than what the medical profession is letting on. I have it on good authority doctors were sent a letter from the AMA at the start of the rollout to tow the line or they would be dragged before the board and de-registered. probably why they demanded indemnity…

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    Zigmaster

    Brilliant! Pity we don’t have politicians like this here with any power.

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      PADRE

      Even if we did have the politicians, they wouldn’t be given the opportunity to question the bureaucrats in public hearings, especially in Victoriastan. The lack of even the oppotunity for scrutiny of ‘health’ advice is one of the most disgraceful aspects of the past eighteen months.

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    Kalm Keith

    In days long past, real vaccines were developed, tested on animals and then on small test groups of humans.

    Through political activism, testing on animals has been made unethical and alternatives were sought.

    Next, to save the animals, we hear of large scale Vaxxine testing in Africa on people who are largely hidden from sight of Western media and activists.

    Is this real? Can the governments and big pharma people be trusted to look after us.

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    TdeF

    “The United States secretary of health and human services is the head of the United States Department of Health and Human Services, and serves as the principal advisor to the president of the United States on all health matters.”

    Xavier Becerra began his career as a lawyer, working on cases involving individuals who had mental disorders.

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      TdeF

      Randal Howard Paul (born January 7, 1963) is an American physician and politician serving as the junior[1] United States Senator from Kentucky since 2011. He is the son of former three-time presidential candidate and twelve-term U.S. Representative of Texas Ron Paul.

      Born in Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania, Paul attended Baylor University and is a graduate of the Duke University School of Medicine. Paul began practicing ophthalmology in 1993 in Bowling Green, Kentucky.

      Can we please have more actually qualified doctors as Medical Advisers? Surely that makes sense?

      The head of WHO Tedros Adhonom is the first non medical doctor in charge of the UN division. And he has been directly responsible for 4,500,000 deaths. And covering up the lethality and the source of this virus for the whole time.

      In Victoria, by law the Chief Medical Officer should be in charge, not utterly unqualified and vindictive, opportunistic CCP lackey Daniel Andrews, directly responsible for over 800 deaths, almost all the deaths in Australia.

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        David Maddison

        And here is the bio of Tedros Adhanom:

        https://www.orfonline.org/expert-speak/dr-cover-up-tedros-adhanoms-controversial-journey-to-the-who-65493/

        Tedros was born in 1965 in Asmara, which became Eritrea’s capital after independence from Ethiopia in 1991, and grew up in northern Ethiopia’s Tigray region.

        An ethnic Tigray, he became a member of the Tigray People’s Liberation Front (TPLF), an ethno-nationalistic movement to secure place for the Tigrays in national polity. TPLF has largely been in the seat of power (through a joint front), since overthrowing a regime perceived as being sympathetic to the Amhara ethnicity in 1991. Primarily, the Tigrays, a 6 percent constituent of the population of Ethiopia, hold most political power.

        The better-known public alarms went off in 2017 when Tedros, soon after he was appointed the WHO chief, appointed Robert Mugabe, the much-maligned former Zimbabwean president, as a goodwill ambassador to the WHO. Clearly a quid-pro-quo for an electoral favour earlier, even the strongest supporters of Tedros were taken aback at the brazenness of the decision. Several former and current WHO staff said privately they were appalled at Tedros’s “poor judgement” and “miscalculation”. These words are critical as they occur in recurring frequency in the grey legacy left behind by the man in his more than three-decade professional span.

        Systematic discrimination

        It is interesting to note that Tedros started his political career by aligning with the TPLF, a hard-left organisation that later became part of the Ethiopian People’s Revolutionary Democratic Front, a coalition of left-wing parties that ruled Ethiopia until last year (TPLF was classified as a terrorist organisation in the Global terror database). According to one Ethiopian newspaper, Tedros was listed as the third most important member of the TPLF’s politburo standing committee.

        As an important TPLF member, Tedros joined the Ethiopian health ministry and rose through the ranks to become the country’s health minister in 2005. During his tenure, which lasted until 2012, he was credited for work done on reducing rates of HIV, measles and malaria.

        However, it was also during this time that strong allegations emerged of the TPLF engaging in “systematic discrimination and human rights abuses” by refusing emergency healthcare to the Amhara ethnic group because of their affiliation with the opposition party. In 2010, Human Rights Watch wrote a report on how to aid in the form of food and fertiliser was withheld from local Amhara villagers.

        Interviews by an observer group in 2009 with several people across three regions of Ethiopia yielded widespread suppression of political dissent by conditioning access to essential government programs on food and health. The report issued by the Human Rights Watch was scathing of how Tedros’s government used donor-supported resources and aid as a tool to consolidate power.

        Given the strong ethnic fissures between the Tigray and the Ahmara ethnicities, these allegations started gaining credence further as birth rates were recorded to be significantly lower in the Amhara region compared to other regions and two million Amhara people “disappeared” from the subsequent population census.

        Also, by the time Tedros left office as health minister, the Amhara region was severely underperforming in health indicators as compared to the Tigray region. The health coverage (physician to population ratio) was 5X apart in the two regions and infant mortality was vastly different.

        If the times weren’t so grim, it would be laughable to think that a career politician, with allegations of discrimination in health provisions to his own countrymen would go on to lead the WHO, where universality and equality in healthcare are enshrined as core principles.

        SEE LINK FOR REST

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          Bruce

          Oddly missing from that “bio” of Tedros, is the big link between China and the TPLF. This, in turn is closely tied to the fact that it was Chinese political power and “influence” that put Mugabe into power in the hugely tragic story of Zimbabwe / Rhodesia.

          See also Malcolm Fraser and the utterly evil Lord Carrington.

          There is, as Pink Floyd noted, “A LOT OF IT ABOUT”.

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    David Maddison

    I wish Australia had politicians like that. Unlike most Australian politicians, many of whom have only been politician’s assistants, lawyers or union thugs, he is educated as a medical doctor and has worked in real jobs.

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    justjoshin

    Forced to participate in trials of a new medical technique? Sure thing Josef Mengele.

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    David Maddison

    Rand Paul supports freedom of choice in covid management.

    There should be no coercion.

    -I think there should be vax for those who want it.

    -Natural immunity for those who have been infected and wish to rely on that and no vax.

    -Prophylaxis according to Zelenko, I-MASK+ and other protocols for those that want that

    -Antibody treatment as available in most places in the US but only available for the extremely sick in Australia. E.g Sotrovimab, Regeneron.

    -Nothing at all for those who wish no treatment or prophylaxis.

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      Forrest Gardener

      I agree with you on the question of treatment and management. There is however the question of a sick person taking part in public life. I strongly believe that people suffering from for examples the bubonic plague, typhoid or this WuFlu should not be in the same aisle as me at Woolworths.

      To that end the best technology right now appears to be the rapid antigen testing. Apart from the bureaucratic push to maintain control I support a requirement of a negative test for patrons at Woolworths, on public transport and any public buildings.

      My support will expire once antiviral medication is available.

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      • #
        David Maddison

        About a year ago I was discussing partnering with a medical industry friend to import rapid antigen tests into Australia but at the time the TGA had instituted a $500,000 fine for importing “unapproved” tests even though they were approved by the FDA and others. It seems that slow testing and the disruption that causes was the preferred government option and probably still is.

        This is about destruction of society, not public health.

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        TdeF

        Bubonic plague is transmitted by flea bite.

        Technically an infected person with Wuhan flu next to you in the aisle is just as dangerous vaccinated or unvaccinated. Precautions depend so much on the disease and the method of transmission.

        Vaccination does not stop infection or reduce the viral load. In fact an infected vaccinated person is more likely to be there because they are more likely to be asymptomatic.

        And people who have been infected and survived are proven to be able to survive, something vaccination does not guarantee.

        It is a tricky area. You have the right to be insulated from the disease but vaccination does not guarantee that. And vaccination has a real risk too.

        I would suggest that every encouragement should be made to get people to vaccinate but it is massive judicial overreach to start to enforce vaccination. Two decades ago the switch to TransFats was made compulsory in the US, to reduce heart disease. Then it was discovered they were highly carcinogenic. Oops.

        Lawyers and politicians and the police should not be forcing choices by law. That is a slippery slope to a police state, something Dangerous Daniel Andrews really wants along with his own red shirts with the right to lock people up arbitrarily and indefinitely.

        Some people think vaccination is a cure. And others think it is a deadly mass experiment. Yet more think vaccination prevents infection. All these things are wrong.

        Education, not compulsion should be the job of the state. And vigilance. And provision of adequate facilities. On all these things, Daniel Andrews has failed because he wants to be Prince of Victoria, with allegiance to President Xi.

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          TdeF

          So why is vaccination to be encouraged? Simple. It reduces deaths. And long term damage. It will not stop infections but many more infections will be asymptomatic, currently 80% are. That will increase.

          Australia has had 1300 deaths, 800 in Andrews Victoria because he decided to employ friends secretly, which no one knows apparently. The decision was made by no one, apparently. They even know which night and at what time this decision which did not happen was made, but not by whom. A very tragic comedy, political farce. Now the entire department has been charged with Daniel Andrew’s crimes.

          However when the UK has had 140,000 deaths with only 2.5 times our population, we would have buried 40,000 people. Now with vaccination we need to open up and let the virus have its way, especially this more infectious but slightly less dangerous mutation. That would be better than inoculation.

          Yes thousands will die. But we usually lose 2,000 people a year to that other Corona virus, the H1N1 flu and no one says anythign. And we have not had a single death in 18 months, so we are 3,000 people up.

          Time to open up. At least when all the most vulnerable have been inoculated and the inoculation rate for over 50s in the UK is over 95%. We must get the over 50 rate up. Inoculating children is wrong. Whatever the long term damage from the inoculation, they need it the least and are most likely to suffer even later in life. The risk benefit rate is too high. And they will be the ones who inoculate everyone else. As always.

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          • #
            clarence.t

            “reduces….. long term damage.”

            This is not something you can prove yet.

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            • #
              TdeF

              I wrote whatever. No one knows yet. All medications come with a down side, like life itself, an invariably fatal sexually transmitted viral infection. You have to find the balance.

              11

          • #
            TdeF

            We cannot rely on WHO and others to protect us any more with our gates wide open. America is far worse, taking in tens of thousands of Afghans and Haitians without any health or even attitude checks. They will pay a great price for this absurd open borders danger.

            We should maintain and expand our vigilance on sick travelers with new diseases of all types. Australia is an island and that should be a great strength.

            Diseases which include scourges like tuberculosis but also other potentially lethal diseases. And diseases like rabies and more which have not reached our country. That was always the responsibility of our government. Sick people should not be put on planes and should isolate when they come to Australia, as it used to be. For the last 20 years, there were no health checks at points of entry. That is wrong.

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          • #
            mobihci

            at one time I thought that it would have been probable that 30k aussies could have died from covid, but after looking through the figures from the UK it becomes very clear that the delta variant changed the outcomes by a factor of 4, so I believe the deaths with deltas dominance would have been under 10k. the majority of those 10k would have died one way or another within the covid timespan with or without covid 19 intervention.

            it should be noted that the effects of the vaccine are not just the prevention of serious covid19 outcomes, there is a price to pay that should be balanced against the seriousness of the disease, and on this front fear sells. it is in the best interest of all governments, pharma etc to keep people scared.

            so, the big question now is not about the virus (what we are told to be scared of), but what is the vaccine and what are its long term side effects (what we probably should be scared of). an interesting look at the causes of deaths from the vaccine is here –

            https://odysee.com/@en:a5/PK_Tot-durch-Impfung_english:a

            https://www.coronaheadsup.com/coronavirus/what-is-in-your-vaccine-german-researchers-analyze-pfizer-astrazeneca-vaccines/

            there are short clips in the 2nd link there that show what they call metal chips etc, but I believe what they are looking at is a natural combining of metalic substances making these wierd looking chains. these could be the reason for inflammation, and they get there by the shot being incorrectly administered.

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          • #
            Kalm Keith

            The other day I heard of the third account of a seriously debilitating reaction to the “jab”.
            Apparently for this person the first one had been O.K. but the second led to internal chills and 24 hours in bed: male aged just over 40.

            The three anecdotes are from rabid pro vaxers so it’s unlikely to be misinformation.

            Others comments about bad reactions are not uncommon and suggest that the serious injuries reported from vaccination are probably all too real.

            If immediate damage is so obvious then the longer term results need more attention.

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        • #
          Forrest Gardener

          Ummm. Yeah. I write about using rapid flow tests. You responded by talking about injections.

          10

        • #
          Hanrahan

          Bubonic plague is transmitted by flea bite.

          I read somewhere that when this was realised they started getting rid of the dogs which only made it worse because rats were the host for the plague.

          Less dogs, more rats.

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      • #
        Chris

        People with Bubonic plague, Typhoid and WuFlu will not be in the same aisle as you in Woolworths, Without medical intervention they will be barely able to get out of bed .

        21

        • #
          Forrest Gardener

          Two out of three ain’t bad Chris. People with WuFlu are very likely to be in the aisles of Woolworths before they are even aware they have it. That will be worse with injected people because the injection suppresses symptoms.

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    • #
      RickWill

      The daily Covid update in Victoria, Sunday 3 Oct, had two ICU nurses from large metropolitan hospitals giving reports. Neither had fully vaccinated people under their care.

      The one from RMH became quite emotional about young people in her care begging for the vaccination and her telling them it was of no benefit in their condition.

      There are only a handful of people in Australia who have actually experienced Covid. The vast majority of Australians have no idea how severe it can be. If the virus had ripped through the community then the health care system would have been overwhelmed as it has been in most parts of the world. Countries like India and Peru that have had the worst of Covid are putting jabs into arms as quickly as they can acquire vaccines despite a good portion of the population already having natural immunity:
      https://91-divoc.com/pages/covid-visualization/?chart=countries&highlight=India&show=highlight-only&y=both&scale=linear&data=vaccinePeople&data-source=owid&xaxis=right#countries

      Australia has chosen a different path to protect the health care system from failing. It means most Australians have no idea how bad Covid can be. The “Destroyer”, Dylan Goddard, has changed his tune after spending time in ICU:
      https://www.facebook.com/spleenvent/posts/4663840826993511

      In a photo published on social media, the hulking bikie was seen in a hospital gown with wires plugged to his chest.
      He wrote: “Just got out of ICU. Covid is real”.

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      • #
        David Maddison

        These mortality stats would be far more convincing if comorbidities such as the patient’s obesity or immune deficiency were stated as well as well known micronutrient deficiencies such as Vitamin D and zinc. Also, were antivirals and zinc ionophores offered to the patient and if not, why not? And what about antibody treatments such as sotrovimab? Why weren’t they offered?

        Inquiring minds want to know.

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        • #
          Hanrahan

          Also, how many are vegetarian? Beef and pork are rich in Fe & Zn and reading about the new and improved nutrient, NAC, it too is in red meats.

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      • #
        Tel

        Countries like India and Peru that have had the worst of Covid are putting jabs into arms as quickly as they can acquire vaccines …

        How many times do you think you can keep making stuff up, getting called on it, and then barge ahead and make more stuff up?

        https://epidemic-stats.com/coronavirus/india

        India: 24220/mil Infected, 321/mil Death

        Denmark: 61885/mil Infected, 458/mil Death

        Ireland: 78619/mil Infected, 1048/mil Death

        Netherlands: 116866/mil Infected, 1058/mil Death

        Germany: 50648/mil Infected, 1121/mil Death

        Sweden: 113347/mil Infected, 1457/mil Death

        France: 107358/mil Infected, 1784/mil Death

        Spain: 106058/mil Infected, 1848/mil Death

        UK: 115621/mil Infected, 2004/mil Death

        Italy: 77581/mil Infected, 2171/mil Death

        Why is it difficult to accept that India did better than all the major “First World” countries across Europe? That’s with a much lower vaccination rate in India.

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        Hanrahan

        In a photo published on social media, the hulking bikie was seen in a hospital gown with wires plugged to his chest.
        He wrote: “Just got out of ICU. Covid is real”.

        Who here denies covid isn’t real? Most of us just lack your religious fervour.

        I have been preparing the terrain for years, hope if/when I catch it it will be undramatic and will then have the far more reliable antibodies. You would deny me that choice if you could.

        Besides the “hulking bikie” sounds obese to me. And who says bikies are tough? Almost by definition they don’t look after themselves. I just can’t picture a bikie mowing the lawn without a shirt or popping his Vit D pill every morning.

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    David Maddison

    Remember how earlier on we kept on being told that unlike virtually every other virus, prior infection by covid provided no natural immunity.

    This was obviously an argument in favour of the vaxx.

    At least until the Israeli study came out showing the superiority of natural immunity to the vaxx.
    https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2021.08.24.21262415v1

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    • #
      RickWill

      Remember how earlier on we kept on being told that unlike virtually every other virus, prior infection by covid provided no natural immunity.

      No, I have no memory of that. I can recall some discussion on natural immunity waning but I cannot recall any information indicating there was no natural immunity. A good number of undeveloped countries have already beaten the virus through predominantly natural immunity.

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        Graeme No.3

        And early on (March 2020) there was the Diamond Princess cruise where 83% of those passengers didn’t get infected and 8% were infected but didn’t get symptoms. But that was the original type of the virus.

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    Lance

    Why Life Jackets Should Be Mandatory. (4 min vid + 1 min commercial at end)

    “My Life Jacket won’t work if you’re not wearing one. Its for your protection”.

    https://rumble.com/vn8d3t-why-life-jackets-should-be-mandatory.html

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    David Maddison

    Dirty Harry and Chairman Dan (humour).

    https://youtu.be/YSytRT5nPD4

    30

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    another ian

    Some references to molnupiravir from back in BC. I haven’t checked to see if they still work.

    Follows this

    https://chiefio.wordpress.com/2021/09/03/w-o-o-d-3-september-2021/#comment-151309

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    • #
      OldOzzie

      From the Article referenced above

      Big Pharma Backs Joe Biden, But People Don’t Think He’ll Fix Drug Pricing

      Former Vice President Joe Biden is winning the race for donations from Big Pharma but experts and industry stakeholders doubt his plans will successfully lower drug prices or address underlying issues in the industry.

      The pharmaceuticals and health products industry has donated more than $5.9 million to Biden’s presidential campaign, according to OpenSecrets.org, a site run by the Center for Responsive Politics, which tracks political donations.

      President Donald Trump has garnered less than $1.5 million in donations from the industry, based upon FEC figures up to September 21. This stark contrast may be explained by the widespread criticism of Trump’s approach to drug pricing.

      10

  • #
    STJOHNOFGRAFTON

    A collection of some quotations on true science: Worthy of reflection to realise how much we’ve lost.

    “Consensus also has no place in the scientific method”.

    “The scientific method used to govern much of popular American thinking.
    In empirical fashion, scientists advised us to examine evidence and data, and then by induction come to rational hypotheses”.

    “The enemies of “science” were politics, superstition, bias and deduction.
    Yet we are now returning to our version of medieval alchemy and astrology in rejecting a millennium of the scientific method”.

    “Science is dying; superstition disguised as morality is returning. And we’ll all soon become poorer, angrier and more divided”.

    20

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    another ian

    Well! Well! Well!

    “Russia and China Likely to Introduce U.N. Security Council Resolution Condemning Australia for Human Rights Violations
    October 2, 2021 | Sundance | 95 Comments”

    https://theconservativetreehouse.com/blog/2021/10/02/russia-and-china-likely-to-introduce-u-n-security-council-resolution-condemning-australia-for-human-rights-violations/

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      Serp

      With any luck the motion will pass and Australia will get the hump and renounce its UN membership along with all the crap treaties by which we are bound.

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    MichaelinBrisbane

    An article just posted in Herald Sun at 8:00 am about “Melbourne clinics busted selling Ivermectin as Covid treatment”, with the subtext that it is “a potentially deadly drug”.
    So the subject is now well and truly in the mainstream press.
    Time to flood the media with objections to this nonsense, putting the record straight and demanding that the TGA retract their edicts against the prescription of Ivermectin.

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    • #
      el+gordo

      Pineapple stems stop Covid in its tracks, this discovery is a year old but has received little publicity.

      ‘One of the core agents is a pineapple stem enzyme tested in the lab after it was observed that pigs eating pineapples were resistant to particular gastro conditions.

      “We’ve taken a drug in development for more than a decade and asked whether it can be adapted for treating people infected with COVID-19, Professor David Morris said in a statement on Monday.

      “Our lab results show the new drug renders the COVID-19 spike ineffective, stopping it from infecting other cells.’ (7News)

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      • #
        Ronin

        So will it be decried as ‘ pig food’.

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      • #
        Annie

        Are you talking about bromelain?

        70

        • #
          beowulf

          Yes, he would be. Pineapples (as in bromeliads) produce bromelain, most concentrated in the stem/core. It has been around forever. I seem to remember that it was first isolated in the 1890s.

          You are probably aware that it is already a secondary active ingredient in many quercetin products. It is in both the brands that I use. You can also buy it pure.

          Fun fact: it’s an enzyme and you can tenderise meat with it too, that’s probably why they use it to debride dead skin on severe burns.

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    another ian

    “Takes a look at some vaccine efficacy data that came out in the U.K. a few weeks ago.”

    http://www.smalldeadanimals.com/2021/10/02/dr-rollergator-phd/

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    John Connor II

    Well, that’s the BIG question Jo – what’s the REAL reason behind attempting to vaccinate everyone?
    Oohhh…I made a typo just then and laughed. I typed baaxinate. I claim that one!! Baaxinate.LOL..
    Anyway, there is of course no demonstrable reason to vaxx babies, kids, pregnant women at all so why the push?
    Typical psychology as per climate change – think of the children! Political pawns.
    If adults are brainwashed into acceptance through endless msm advertising then it’s a simple matter to extend that fear.
    I am currently discussing 3 points I want answers to with 3 experts (real ones) and when (if) I have those answers I suspect the big picture will be complete, but given what I know now, I think I see what’s really behind all this. Hint – 1 industry out to save $T. No, not govt or pharma.
    Stay tuned.

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    RickWill

    USA is winning the fight against Covid. Infection rate now firmly under 1:
    https://91-divoc.com/pages/covid-visualization/?chart=states&highlight=Texas&show=10&y=both&scale=linear&data=cases-daily-7&data-source=jhu&xaxis=right#states

    The daily cases in the large states are falling fast. The daily deaths are now under 2,000 compared with almost twice that at the peak.

    It seems pointless to be getting into a debate over vaccinations in the USA now. The load on the health care system is dropping.

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      Bruce

      As they say in the classics: “Don’t get cocky, kid”.

      Winter is rapidly approaching the Northern Hemisphere.

      A few “creatively” placed supply chain” issues and electricity / gas distribution disruptions and…Well, lookee there, ANOTHER crisis to be “managed” / not let go to waste.

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    Lance

    Dan Andrews: Believe In Me

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a20vWNHnEY8

    Dan: A degree in Politics and Classics. No idea about Science, Economics, Maths, or hard work.

    Kind of like the USA, Xavier Becerta, Leading Health and Human Services with a Law Degree.

    Yeah. I’d trust a drunken plumber to do heart surgery. yeah. sure.

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    Antoine D’Arche

    People in this country and elsewhere are stupidly blind to what is happening. And some of them are Drs. In fact the majority of GPs are stupidly blind to what’s happening. That’s because half of all doctors are socialists at heart. Long for a glorious socialist state. That’s why it’s so easy to wilfully ignore the obvious. They are my friends and colleagues and they horrify me.

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      ando

      Champagne socialists more like it. Their wealth protects them from socialist policy that destroys lives wherever it has been implemented.

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    David Maddison

    I find this remarkable. The following is copied from elsewhere.

    ‘Expert’ denies Vitamins can be used to treat Covid-19

    “Professor Kristine Macartney has told the Supreme Court that there was no evidence that vitamins could be used to treat Covid-19”.

    https://www.news.com.au/national/nsw-act/courts-law/top-health-official-denies-vitamins-can-treat-covid19-as-court-battle-begins/news-story/348620a1d0c265ae0502d819c38d40bb

    Unbelievable!

    This is an extraordinary claim – as there is plenty of evidence that Vitamin-D, for example, is a common factor in most co-morbidities and (obesity, heart disease, respiratory disorders and age).

    Ah, but she said there is “no evidence that vitamins could be used to treat Covid-19”.

    NEITHER CAN VACCINES BE USED TO TREAT COVID-19

    Like real vaccines, Vitamin D’s role is preventative.

    And while the so-called Covid-19 “vaccines” are claimed to prevent Covid-19, the latest “in vivo” data from the UK and Israel shows that claim is becoming increasingly harder to support:

    https://ourworldindata.org/explorers/coronavirus-data-explorer?zoomToSelection=true&time=2021-05-15..latest&facet=none&pickerSort=asc&pickerMetric=location&hideControls=true&Metric=Confirmed+deaths&Interval=7-day+rolling+average&Relative+to+Population=true&Align+outbreaks=false&country=GBR~USA~IND~ISR

    Meanwhile, the BMJ reports a study from Stockholm:
    (aka “evidence”, “In Vivo” in this case)

    Inhabitants of Swedish-Somali origin are at great risk for covid-19

    “Among the first 15 deaths due to covid-19 in Stockholm County, six were reported, by the Swedish-Somali medical society, to be of Somali origin (March 24). Considering that only 0.84% of the Stockholm County population was born in Somalia (n=8,178 by December 2019) this is an astonishing high rate”.

    Another possible explanation is Ethnic benign neutropenia – the most common form of neutropenia worldwide and very common among East African populations.

    A risk factor that we want to highlight, however, is the low vitamin D levels found in the Swedish-Somali population. Vitamin D status is strongly related to low sun exposure and dark skin.

    There is evidence that vitamin D is involved in our defence against respiratory tract infections. According to a meta-analysis, vitamin D supplementation (daily-weekly dosage) prevents acute respiratory tract infections, especially in those with 25(OH)-D below 25 nmol/l (NNT = 4). In a randomised trial on individuals with frequent respiratory tract infections, treatment with cholecalciferol 4000 IE/day reduced the need for antibiotic treatment. The mechanism is debated; however, modulation of the renin-angiotensin system has been implicated in animal studies of acute respiratory distress syndrome, and angiotensin-converting enzyme 2 is a well-established receptor for the SARS-CoV virus.

    In order to cope with the covid-19 epidemic, preventive measures could be administration of vitamin D to high-risk populations, e.g. dark-skinned adults with low sun-exposure and/or individuals with risk factors for respiratory tract infections. Although it may not always be helpful, it is unlikely to be harmful.

    https://www.bmj.com/content/368/bmj.m1101/rr-10

    That was what we call “evidence”.

    Here is some more “evidence”:

    Vitamin D

    The primary function of vitamin D is to help your body maintain optimal blood levels of calcium and phosphorous, which you can get through exposure to the sun’s ultraviolet rays, or through supplements and the foods you eat.

    Getting enough vitamin D can also protect you from respiratory infection. Vitamin D supplementation significantly decreases the chance of respiratory tract infections, based on clinical studies published in the Journal of Pharmacology and Pharmacotherapeutics.

    https://www.medicinenet.com/covid_19_supplements/article.htm

    The professor must have missed those studies

    COVID-19 ’ICU’ risk – 20-fold greater in the Vitamin D Deficient.

    “COVID-19 (Coronavirus) mortality disproportionately impacts BAME UK individuals, African Americans, Swedish Somalis, and the institutionalised; particularly care-home residents. COVID-19 severity and mortality, appear related to vitamin D deficiency, helping explain higher COVID-19 mortality rates in BAME and the obese.

    Obesity is a strong COVID-19 risk factor, as are co-morbidities, including diabetes, cardio-vascular disease; and sedentary lifestyle; all are dependent on mitochondrial functionality (Gnaiger). Fat cells accrete vitamin D.[15] The obese consistently have proportionately lower vitamin D status (serum 25-hydroxyvitamin D).

    Importantly, vitamin D is also involved in renin–angiotensin system regulation, which is regulated by entry of the SARS-Cov-2 virus into cells via the ACE2 receptor, leading to cytokine storms, with subsequent fatal respiratory distress syndrome.

    Alipio observes, “Vitamin D status is significantly associated with clinical outcomes (p75 nmol/l (30 ng/ml). Deficient were those below 50 nmol/l (20 ng/ml). Deficiency definitions vary: <25 nmol/L, (10 ng/ml) UK; and 50 nmol/L (20 ng/ml) USA.

    Vitamin D biology, is a mature well-researched field, dating back 100 years. Doses, and risks, within clinical parameters, are established and well quantified. Governmental intake guidance exists. Vitamin D deficiency is a medically accepted condition, requiring treatment. Existing blood samples from COVID-19 hospitalized patients could be retrospectively tested for 25(OH)D and linked to outcomes.

    Dr Hugh Sinclair almost 100 years ago observed; “The deficiency of any nutrient which is essential for every tissue will eventually lead to abnormal function in every tissue. That is so incontrovertibly obvious that I am continually astonished it must be repeatedly forcefully restated.”

    Recognition (subject to proof by research), that vitamin D deficiency contributes to COVID-19 infection, progression, severity and mortality would demand policy rethinking on: the seasonality of COVID-19,[43] outdoor access, motivation for physical exercise, food fortification, supplementation, clinical treatment, and provision of free vitamin D supplements to institutions, front-line health and care workers. Sensible (according to latitude and weather) sun exposure is free, available to all and quickly improves vitamin D status, but is inhibited by lock-down.

    Alipio’s results, viewed in the context of earlier recent vitamin D and COVID-19 publications,[2 9] must now lead to urgent research (Brown).[2, 13] Human nature is such that simple solutions to complex issues, for example vitamin C for scurvy, and hand washing prior to baby delivery, are often not readily embraced; but surely the scale and impact of the COVID-19 pandemic demands all avenues are fully explored; more so when no other effective treatment strategies as yet exist. A safe simple step, the correction of a deficiency state, vitamin D this time, convincingly holds out a potential, significant, feasible ‘COVID-19 mitigation remedy.
    https://www.bmj.com/content/369/bmj.m1548/rr-6
    NUMEROUS REFERENCES ARE PROVIDED – OTHERWISE KNOWN AS "EVIDENCE"

    Vitamin D concentrations are lower in people with obesity, those with high blood pressure or diabetes, and in those who smoke. It can be stored in fat cells, thus reducing the circulating concentration in the blood. Poor diet in those with heart disease and a sedentary lifestyle away from sunlight contribute to lower blood concentrations of the vitamin, while smoking affects vitamin D and calcium regulation.

    These conditions are associated with increased risk of COVID-19 and the more severe forms of the disease.

    https://fit.thequint.com/coronavirus/vitamin-d-and-covid-19-what-do-we-know#read-more

    Vitamin D can boost host #immunity against #viral infections.

    A recent FEBS Journal article by Milana Frenkel-Morgenstern https://lnkd.in/eaigan3 investigated #vitaminD concentrations in 7,807 individuals and found vitamin D deficiency could potentially define a population at high-risk for #COVID19
    Low plasma 25(OH)D level appears to be an independent #riskfactor for COVID‐19 #infection and #hospitalizations . This could be critical for #publichealth interventions

    https://www.lifenome.com/vitamin-d-boosts-immunity-against-covid-19/

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    David Maddison

    The censorship by the Left applies to everything, including science.

    Thus, for example, discussion is censored on any and all aspects of covid management that don’t fit with the “accepted science” (whatever that means).

    Of course, this is not how science works. If it can’t be questioned or debated, it’s not science. It’s as simple as that.

    To take one of numerous examples, people have died and continue to die because such simple and common (especially in the obese and elderly) nutritional deficiencies as Vitamin D and zinc are not allowed to be discussed or addressed or if they are raised you are accused of being the standard Leftist ad hominems like being a “flat earther” or “tin foil hat conspiracy theorist”.

    Antivirals and zinc ionophores are not allowed to be discussed or researched either.

    And while these things can be openly discussed on Jo’s blog, see how far you get on any Leftist blog or socialist media platform.

    The Left have returned us to pre-Enlightenment values where only certain ideas are accepted and anyone with alternative ideas is silenced or executed.

    The Left are killing science and medicine and Western Civilisation in general.

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    Serge Wright

    You can see where this is headed. Today’s it’s COVID vaccine, but tomorrow it will be climate change, religion and then political beliefs. Watching Outsiders this morning was a view into that future where people will be arrested for starting a political party based on reclaiming the lost freedom and democracy. The fact that we now have our very first political prisoner is a sign that we are no longer a free country and we should all be very worried. Hopefully the supreme court will come to the rescue, but you can see that dictator Dan is pushing to create our first totalitarian state.

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    Peter+Fitzroy

    how is a natural antibody different to an acquired (from the results of the vaccine) antiboy?

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      Hanrahan

      Natural immunity responds to the whole virus, not just the spike protein. Do try to keep up.

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        Peter+Fitzroy

        and how does that work?

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          Kalm Keith

          Fact Checked at 15:11 Sunday AESDST.
          No facts located. Approved.

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          gowest

          Simple – mRNA altered spike proteins are presented to the body – the body produces antibodies to defend it.
          Virus invades the body thru the lungs – the body does not know about it because the china variant hides from the bodies immune system inside those cells. China virus makes the cell replicate itself – eventually turning the lungs into concrete.
          Ivermectin softens the cell wall enough for Zinc to get into the cell and destroy the china virus altered cell, dioxicycline cleans up. Simple.

          98.5% of people have enough D3, Zinc and other antivirals plus natural antibody T-cell defenders from SARS etc to intercept the china virus before it does enough dirty work to kill you.

          Natural immunity means that the new info is added to the bodies database. mRNA appears from Israel to be so good at hiding from the body that its antibodies are invisible as well – maybe that’s why you will need booster shots.

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        Peter+Fitzroy

        do yuo have a source which is better than this one? https://www.healthline.com/health/acquired-immunity

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          Kalm Keith

          I used to like Worcestershire but it was taken off the shelves in all the local supermarkets.
          Don’t know why.

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            Serp

            Good riddance to it; once the recipe changed and all sediment vanished and it appeared on the shelf in nylon bottles it became a travesty of the product, almost a crime.

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              Kalm Keith

              Haven’t really had it for 60 years’but it’s still available.

              The woke might want it removed because of it’s colour.

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      David Maddison

      In this paper they have listed some of the numerous natural antibody binding sites of SARS-CoV-2. The “vaccine” produces antibodies for the spike protein only.

      https://journals.plos.org/plosbiology/article?id=10.1371/journal.pbio.3001265

      The search for potential antibody-based diagnostics, vaccines, and therapeutics for pandemic severe acute respiratory syndrome coronavirus 2 (SARS-CoV-2) has focused almost exclusively on the spike (S) and nucleocapsid (N) proteins. Coronavirus membrane (M), ORF3a, and ORF8 proteins are humoral immunogens in other coronaviruses (CoVs) but remain largely uninvestigated for SARS-CoV-2. Here, we use ultradense peptide microarray mapping to show that SARS-CoV-2 infection induces robust antibody responses to epitopes throughout the SARS-CoV-2 proteome, particularly in M, in which 1 epitope achieved excellent diagnostic accuracy. We map 79 B cell epitopes throughout the SARS-CoV-2 proteome and demonstrate that antibodies that develop in response to SARS-CoV-2 infection bind homologous peptide sequences in the 6 other known human CoVs. We also confirm reactivity against 4 of our top-ranking epitopes by enzyme-linked immunosorbent assay (ELISA). Illness severity correlated with increased reactivity to 9 SARS-CoV-2 epitopes in S, M, N, and ORF3a in our population. Our results demonstrate previously unknown, highly reactive B cell epitopes throughout the full proteome of SARS-CoV-2 and other CoV proteins.

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      TdeF

      It’s a fair science question. And worthwhile.

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      David Maddison

      In also previously posted above a link to an Israeli study showing the superiority of natural immunity to the vaccine induced “immunity” in the case of SARS-CoV-2.

      https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2021.08.24.21262415v1

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        Peter+Fitzroy

        This article is a preprint and has not been peer-reviewed [what does this mean?]. It reports new medical research that has yet to be evaluated and so should not be used to guide clinical practice.

        But leaving that aside, you have not described ‘natural immunity’ as the study used ‘previously infected individuals who have not been vaccinated’ but that is not a definition of natural immunity.

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          Tilba+Tilba

          “Acquired immunity” ight be a more accurate term.

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          Tel

          If previously infected people who have not been vaccinated wind up with a 99% chance of being immune to the virus … then what exactly do you think natural immunity would be other than that?

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            Peter+Fitzroy

            if you are infected it is the same as being vaccinated, you develop the antibodies either way. I can not see the difference

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              Serp

              Nothing is the same as being vaccinated. Remember Heraclitus, you cannot step in the same river twice although I daresay he hadn’t the wildest conception of your sameness.

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              Konrad

              Wrong Peter. You do not aquire broad long lasting immunity from the quackzines.

              If you already had natural immunity, getting double jabbed actually reduces your protection.

              And if you get double jabbed before being exposed to the virus, you sacrifice your chance of aquiring long lasting broad immunity from surviving infection.

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      Kalm Keith

      Very few girls are like that.

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      Serge Wright

      PF, there is no point trying to claw back ground on that massacre from Rand Paul by silly trolling. Rand Paul had a field day because the entire premise of mandatory vaccines is flawed. It also doesn’t recognise the social consequences of forcing people to do something that is against their will or beliefs, which runs against the very principles of a liberal democracy.

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        Bruce

        Serge: The word you seek is: “Conditioning”.

        Getting people “comfortable” with incremental oppression and falsehoods.

        It’s an old trick.

        Seems to work every time; Rocky may be wrong on this matter.

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    Chrism

    not sure if this has been posted

    good summary in court decision of many covid studies etc

    look at paras 173, 174 and the hum-dinger para 126

    it effectively closes off the mandate option I think

    https://www.fwc.gov.au/documents/decisionssigned/html/2021fwcfb6015.htm

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      Kalm Keith

      That’s made my day.

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      clarence.t

      175 pretty much covers covid and vaccinations.. So it is illegal under the DD laws.

      ““The definition of disability in s.4 of the DD Act includes the presence in the body of organisms capable of causing disease or illness”. It includes a disability that presently exists, or previously existed but no longer exists, or may exist in the future, or is imputed to a person.”

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        clarence.t

        176..

        “intended to include physical, sensory, intellectual and psychiatric impairment, mental illness or disorder, and provisions relating to the presence in the body of organisms capable of causing disease. These provisions have broad application, for example, they are intended to ensure that persons with HIV/AIDS come within the definition of disability for the purposes of this Bill.”.

        It covers HIV/AIDS…so must cover Covid.

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      Serp

      I’m a bit bogged down in my reading of Solzhenitsyn (still in Lubyanka) but I suspect there’s descriptions ahead of fellows who’d put their faith in such documents and ended up with the longest sentences in very remote camps.

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      OldOzzie

      Dissenting Judgement – DECISION OF DEPUTY PRESIDENT DEAN

      [65] Never have I more strenuously disagreed with an outcome in an unfair dismissal application. The Decision manifest a serious injustice to Ms Kimber that required remedy. More egregious, however, is that the Majority Decision has denied Ms Kimber the protections afforded by the Fair Work Act in part because of “an inference that she holds a general anti-vaccination position” 13.

      [66] Had I been able to do so, I would have granted permission to appeal, upheld the appeal and quashed the Decision. In re-determining the application, I would have found that Ms Kimber was unfairly dismissed and would have reinstated her to her former position.

      [67] This decision is in two parts. First, I will explain the reasons why Ms Kimber was unfairly dismissed. Second, I will address the Majority Decision as it relates to COVID-19 and vaccine requirements.

      PART 1 – MS KIMBER

      Why is the Decision wrong?

      [134] There is nothing controversial in stating that vaccines do not eliminate the risk of COVID, given that those who are vaccinated can catch and transmit COVID. By way of one example, a report issued by the Centres for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) in the United States on 6 August 2021 25 looked at an outbreak of COVID in Massachusetts during July 2021. Of the 469 COVID cases identified, 74% were fully vaccinated. Of this group, 79% were symptomatic. In total, 5 people required hospitalisation and of these, 4 were fully vaccinated. This is not an anomaly – the data from many countries and other parts of the United States provides a similar picture, although obtaining similar data from the United States will now be problematic given the decision by the CDC on 1 May 2021 to cease monitoring and recording breakthrough case information unless the person is hospitalised or dies. What is clear, however, is that the vaccine is not an effective control measure to deal with transmission of COVID by itself.

      [139] Critically, there is another alternative to vaccines to assist employers in meeting their WHS obligations, that being testing. Given there is no doubt that those who are fully vaccinated can catch and transmit the virus, testing (whether rapid antigen or otherwise) will provide employers with a level of comfort that a worker does not have COVID and therefore will not transmit COVID to others (that being the risk that is to be managed) in the workplace.

      [140] Testing is now widely used around the world as a risk control for the spread of COVID. There is absolutely no reason why it cannot be widely used in Australia.

      [141] Testing is arguably a better control measure compared to vaccines in meeting health and safety obligations.

      [142] Vaccines have not been broadly mandated on health and safety grounds in most countries. For example, despite what has been reported in Australia, most of the European Union (EU) and the Scandinavian countries have not actually mandated vaccinations for travel purposes. EU citizens can travel freely now if any one of three options are satisfied, that being a vaccine, a negative COVID test, or evidence of having recently recovered from COVID (in recognition of the natural immunity that comes with having recovered from having COVID). The EU have provided these options so that people who are not vaccinated will not be discriminated against when travelling across the EU. In other words, all those who are not vaccinated can get tested for COVID and travel freely 27.

      [144] The science is clear that those who have recovered from COVID have at least the same level of protection from COVID as a person who has been vaccinated. There can be absolutely no legitimate basis, then, for mandating vaccination for this group of people.

      [150] PHOs have been made in NSW mandating COVID vaccinations for anyone who lives in a local government area of concern and wishes to work, and those who are airport workers, aged care workers or health care workers among others.

      [151] In making blanket rules in PHOs which deny people their fundamental right to work or operate to “lock them out of society”, and which denies them freedoms which are a fundamental and essential part of any democracy, concepts of reasonableness, necessity and proportionality arise. In other words, decisions taken to restrict or remove basic liberties must be proportionate and necessary to manage the risk and must be the minimum necessary to achieve the public health aims.

      [152] The Australian Health Protection Principal Committee (AHPPC) is Australia’s key decision making body for heath emergencies and public health emergency management. It has issued a number of public statements on minimising the potential risk of COVID 28, the purpose of which is to provide advice on the appropriate management of COVID in certain industries or occupation groups.

      [153] A statement on COVID vaccination requirements for aged care workers it issued on 4 June 2021 29 commences with the following:

      “AHPPC does not recommend compulsory COVID-19 vaccines for aged care workers” (emphasis added)

      [156] Notwithstanding there is no advice from the AHPPC to mandate vaccinations for school staff, the NSW Government has also made a PHO requiring that all workers in NSW schools be vaccinated, which extends to volunteers. Those without a COVID vaccine will not be able perform any work at a school after 8 November 2021 (unless a medical exemption applies). On the face of it, this will prevent a parent from attending their child’s school to assist with reading, or prevent a volunteer from occasionally helping out with maintenance or gardening at a school. What risk does a person pose that needs to be controlled by vaccination who mows the lawns of a school on a weekend? Of course, there is no risk that requires a vaccination.

      [159] Teachers and school staff more generally continue to work in the EU without a COVID vaccination and can instead participate in regular testing. What, then, is the basis for mandating the vaccine for all school staff? There is no justification for doing so when other measures are available and are widely in use across the world. Such a mandate will not be the ‘minimum necessary’ to achieve public health aims.

      171] As at 2019, there were 4,344 [email protected] in NSW on the Child Protection Register. There are no blanket rules which prevent these people from working or participating in society, nor do they have to declare that they are [email protected] before entering a business or a school.

      Final comments

      [179] Research in the context of COVID-19 has shown that many who are ‘vaccine-hesitant’ are well educated, work in the health care industry and have questions about how effective the vaccines are in stopping transmission, whether they are safe to take during pregnancy, or if they affect fertility. 37 A far safer and more democratic approach to addressing vaccine hesitancy, and therefore increasing voluntary vaccination uptake, lies in better education, addressing specific and often legitimate concerns that people may hold, and promoting genuine informed consent. It does not lie in censoring differing opinions or removing rights and civil liberties that are fundamental in a democratic nation. It certainly does not lie in the use of highly coercive, undemocratic and unethical mandates.

      [180] The statements by politicians that those who are not vaccinated are a threat to public health and should be “locked out of society” and denied the ability to work are not measures to protect public health. They are not about public health and not justified because they do not address the actual risk of COVID. These measures can only be about punishing those who choose not to be vaccinated. If the purpose of the PHOs is genuinely to reduce the spread of COVID, there is no basis for locking out people who do not have COVID, which is easily established by a rapid antigen test. Conversely, a vaccinated person who contracts COVID should be required to isolate until such time as they have recovered.

      [181] Blanket rules, such as mandating vaccinations for everyone across a whole profession or industry regardless of the actual risk, fail the tests of proportionality, necessity and reasonableness. It is more than the absolute minimum necessary to combat the crisis and cannot be justified on health grounds. It is a lazy and fundamentally flawed approach to risk management and should be soundly rejected by courts when challenged.

      [182] All Australians should vigorously oppose the introduction of a system of medical apartheid and segregation in Australia. It is an abhorrent concept and is morally and ethically wrong, and the anthesis of our democratic way of life and everything we value.

      [183] Australians should also vigorously oppose the ongoing censorship of any views that question the current policies regarding COVID. Science is no longer science if it a person is not allowed to question it.

      [184] Finally, all Australians, including those who hold or are suspected of holding “anti-vaccination sentiments”, are entitled to the protection of our laws, including the protections afforded by the Fair Work Act. In this regard, one can only hope that the Majority Decision is recognised as an anomaly and not followed by others.

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        OldOzzie

        To vaccinate against Covid-19 or not has become the moral question of our age

        Nick Cater

        Last Friday Daniel Andrews made vaccinations all but compulsory in Victoria, although he did not put it in those terms. Instead, his chief health officer issued an extensive list of occupations where workers would need a jab to go about their business. Trappist monks have not been included as far as we can tell, but from Sunday week only vaccinated priests will be allowed to preach, provided it’s on Zoom.

        We should be grateful for Scott Morrison’s leadership on the vexed issue of compulsory vaccinations. It is a touchy subject. The right to bodily integrity was recognised after the bitterest of experiences: the forced medical experimentations carried out by the German [email protected] government.

        There is room for disagreement on where the boundary lies between encouragement and coercion. The balance between individual rights and responsibilities towards others is equally fraught.

        It seems reasonable to most people that a healthcare worker should be vaccinated, just as we expect them to wear masks and gloves. The question of whether the same rule should apply to supermarket attendants, car mechanics, journalists, horse trainers, cockroach poisoners and stump grinders, however, is one best decided by their employers.

        The responsibilities of an employer under workplace safety laws are comprehensive and, where disputes arise, can be tested in court.

        Given the importance of this debate, it is surprising there has not been more discussion about a decision by the full bench of the Fair Work Commission last week that is utterly germane. The commission had been asked to rule on a claim for unfair dismissal by a receptionist at an aged-care home in NSW who had refused to be vaccinated against the flu.

        Two of the three commissioners hearing the case, vice-president Adam Hatcher and commissioner Bernie Riordan, concluded the woman’s dismissal was not unreasonable. Among the grounds offered for dismissing the case was that it would be against the public interest to grant the right of appeal.

        The decision reads: “We do not intend, in the circumstances of the current pandemic, to give any encouragement to a spurious objection to a lawful workplace vaccination requirement.” The commission’s deputy president, Lyndall Dean, disagreed. In a lengthy dissenting judgment she says decisions to mandate vaccinations are a “lazy and fundamentally flawed approach”.

        “All Australians should vigorously oppose the introduction of a system of medical apartheid and segregation in Australia. It is an abhorrent concept and is morally and ethically wrong, and the anthesis of our democratic way of life and everything we value,” Dean writes.

        One doesn’t have to agree with Dean’s conclusions to recognise that she touches on issues of fundamental moral importance.

        Her dissenting opinion is an important contribution to a vital debate we are doing our utmost not to have. The majority decision that there are no legal grounds to justify an appeal may well be right. Yet even the least vaccine hesitant among us must surely dissent from the notion that public discussion should be suppressed. The commission’s job is to regulate the workplace, not control public debate or insult our intelligence by implying that ordinary people cannot be trusted to separate truth from falsehood.

        The logic for mandatory vaccination is unclear. The Covid-19 virus is so horrible, few Australians need to be persuaded the jab is in their own best interest. While the vaccines reduce the personal risk of severe illness or death, they do not appear to reduce the collective risk of the virus spreading in the community.

        As Dean writes in her dissenting judgment: “The risk of spreading Covid only arises with a person who has Covid. This should be apparent and obvious. There is no risk associated with a person who is unvaccinated and does not have Covid, notwithstanding the misleading statements by politicians that the unvaccinated are a significant threat to the vaccinated, supposedly justifying ‘locking out the unvaccinated from society’ and denying them the ability to work.”

        Dean refers to the advice from Safe Work Australia that employers cannot rely solely on a vaccinated workforce to minimise the risk of exposure to Covid in the workplace. She argues that testing employees is a far more reliable method for keeping workplaces safe. “Testing is now widely used around the world as a risk control for the spread of Covid. There is absolutely no reason why it cannot be widely used in Australia.”

        Dean goes on to consider the human rights dimension to mandatory vaccinations. She examines the relevance of the 1947 Nuremberg Code and the 1948 Universal Declaration of Human Rights, which recognised the right to bodily integrity.

        The freedoms we have surrendered in fighting this pandemic are not trivial. They include freedom of association and movement, freedom to protest peacefully and worship, freedom of commerce and freedom of Australians to enter or leave their country. We have lost freedoms so self-evident we didn’t even know we could lose them: freedom to grieve, to comfort and be comforted, to be beside our loved ones in sickness and health.

        We have been promised that most of those freedoms progressively would be returned to us by Christmas if we stuck to the vaccination plan.

        The people are sticking to their side of the deal. As of Sunday, 79.5 per cent of Australians in the most vulnerable age cohort, the over-70s, had been fully vaccinated. Well over half the entire adult population is in the same position.

        At this point, premiers should be restoring liberties, not taking more from us. Yet every day, it seems, the Andrews government finds more freedoms with which to trifle and more areas of our private lives in which the state is willing to trespass. These are not the actions of a premier acting in good faith.

        “It is the common fate of the indolent to see their rights become a prey to the active,” Irish orator John Philpot Curran wrote in 1790. “The condition upon which God hath given liberty to man is eternal vigilance.” Especially, it seems, in Victoria.

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    John Connor II

    Gotta love “science”.

    The largest health system in Louisiana will start fining employees hundreds of dollars a month if they are married to an unvaccinated person.

    https://www.foxnews.com/us/louisiana-health-system-fine-employees-spouses-unvaccinated

    CDC director Rochelle Walensky says the vaccine cannot prevent transmission.

    I guess Youtube is going to have to ban the CDC…

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    Tilba+Tilba

    [It] effectively closes off the mandate option I think

    I’m not sure how – being unvaccinated isn’t a disability. And nor is vaccination being imposed on any person – it’s been made a condition of employment in the aged-care sector, which seems reasonable to me.

    I expect the families of aged-care residents might well like the staff of the facility to be vaccinated.

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      clarence.t

      Read [175}

      “It includes a disability that presently exists, or previously existed but no longer exists, or may exist in the future, or is imputed to a person.””

      If there is nothing “imputed” to the unvaxxed, then there is no cause for the twojabs+ to be scared of them.

      And if there is, then its illegal under the DD laws.

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      FarmerDoug2

      T T. I’m not so sure.
      If they are unvaxed they are more likely to be crook and show symptoms. Vaxinated may feel OK and “soldier on”.
      Doug

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    bobby b

    “Why is there such a push to vaccinate those with natural immunity?”

    Presently we have a “proof” system based upon a single known card showing two (or more) shots given. Easy. Easy to verify, familiar to all.

    Add in new ways to qualify – “already had it!” – and you make that card-based system less reliable, easier to fake, harder to understand. The typical door-watcher will have a harder job looking for fakes.

    So it’s all to preserve the simple function of the verification system.

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      Tel

      No, it has nothing to do with health.

      The vaccine is an obedience test … one you understand that everything else makes sense.

      They don’t want people with critical thinking, people who ask questions are dangerous. They want very loyal, and very dependable useful idiots who do exactly what they are told regardless of how ridiculous it is.

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        Bruce

        Tel: As per Ayn Rand’s “Atlas Shrugged”:

        “Did you really think we want those laws observed?” said Dr. Ferris. “We want them to be broken. You’d better get it straight that it’s not a bunch of boy scouts you’re up against… We’re after power and we mean it… There’s no way to rule innocent men. The only power any government has is the power to crack down on criminals. Well, when there aren’t enough criminals one makes them. One declares so many things to be a crime that it becomes impossible for men to live without breaking laws. Who wants a nation of law-abiding citizens? What’s there in that for anyone? But just pass the kind of laws that can neither be observed nor enforced or objectively interpreted – and you create a nation of law-breakers – and then you cash in on guilt. Now that’s the system, Mr. Reardon, that’s the game, and once you understand it, you’ll be much easier to deal with.”

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    John Connor II

    What does the “science” say about this?:

    Colorado County Is 99.9% Vaxxed, But Residents Still Getting COVID

    https://www.cracknewz.com/2021/10/colorado-county-is-999-vaxxed-but.html

    What relevance are the vaccination herd-immunity targets?
    You can FORGET 80% targets here in Oz and that’s why.
    You can forget 1 or 2 jabs of the Baaxine . Try endless, until the inevitable.

    Like I’ve always said – the immune system (assuming you’re healthy) is quite capable of handling the NON-novel Covid-19 and variants and this would all have been over last year if that had happened.

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    another ian

    “More COVID confusion:

    This article says that the FDA has redacted one of the main (20%) Pfizer ingredients.
    https://www.lewrockwell.com/2021/10/jon-rappoport/boosters-how-to-kill-more-people-with-impunity/

    It links to this two week old demand for FDA transparency and removal of the redaction indicated.

    Click to access IR0558-FDA-Ingredients-in-Pfizer-Vaccine_FINAL.pdf ”

    And the secret ingredient is – well follow this link to check

    https://chiefio.wordpress.com/2021/10/01/w-o-o-d-1-october-2021/#comment-151352

    “Drum roll……. And the redacted secret ingredient is — WATER. At least according to the newest version of the report. I honestly don’t know what to believe. In the first place, why on earth would they redact WATER as an ingredient?! Any suggestions? Why would it take an expedited Freedom of Information Request to remove the redaction?

    Now that the FDA has removed it and says it’s just water, why should I believe them?”

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    Gary S

    It is obvious Daniel Andrews is suffering from a serious personality disorder- he is unable to relinquish his grip on the freedoms of Victorians. His cabal of underlings, including Sutton, Weimar, Foley et al, are incompetent and know they are in way over their heads. They are all temporary parasites and must realise their days are numbered.
    Surely, someone within this dysfunctional government will step up and call these numbskulls out. Who has the bollocks? When the reckoning comes, let’s hope it is swift and comprehensive and unlike previous farcical investigations, leaves no stone unturned and allows for no excuse of memory loss. This is actually beyond incompetence and is bordering on psychopathic destruction of the democratic system and spiteful revenge politics which can only end one way.

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      Tilba+Tilba

      His cabal of underlings, including Sutton, Weimar, Foley et al, are incompetent and know they are in way over their heads. They are all temporary parasites and must realise their days are numbered. Surely, someone within this dysfunctional government will step up and call these numbskulls out.

      I hate to be the one to break it to you, but Premier Daniel Andrews (plus Sutton, Weimar, etc) are rating really well in approval, and I expect Andrews and his team will be returned in the next election.

      Your extremist position is not shared by the mainstream, quite rightly. I think they’re doing a pretty good job in the circs.

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        Serp

        It wouldn’t be because the premier has the best social media presence Victorian taxpayers can buy.

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        Bruce

        Firstly: It’s Viktoriastan.

        Secondly: “Stockholm Syndrome”.

        Simple, really.

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        Gary S

        Yes Tilba, you seem to take an interest in everything I say, so take note – when you become part of the mainstream, it appears that you lose the capacity for independent thought.

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    Philip

    The bureaucrat’s answers may as well come from a robot

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    Doc

    Who is the biggest danger to the other.

    Why are the unvaccinated to be treated as lepers, as though they are a danger to the ‘vaccinated’. If an unvaccinated person gets infected then his future has the three options. If he survives (or she), which is the strongest probability, he has stronger immunity by far than the vaccinated. If the unvaccinated infects a vaccinated, survival chances are much better for the vaccinated, by definition, and that vaccinated person gets the advantages of natural immunity – presumably – which makes ‘him’ better off by far than what he was when simply vaccinated. The infected unvaccinated person has done the vaccinated a favour.

    On the other hand, being vaccinated still allows spread of the virus which could increase the chances of more lethal or more vaccine-resistant strains to develop and circulate with time. This surely makes the vaccinated person a much riskier proposition to the unvaccinated that has no prior COVID-19 infection. Worse, the vaccinated would be assisting in the development of strains of increasing danger to themselves.

    The demand to force recovered previously infected people to be vaccinated really has to be spelt out by the powers that demand the action. I have a relative said to be in this position, but as someone who is also in this position says above, the test to prove the immune status was refused. Personally, I had cardiovascular reactions following both vaccine injections which has taken 5months to settle down. Possibly a lot of people have a conundrum about receiving these vaccines unnecessarily and look with a very jaundiced view at official demands to get the jab and possibly risk health and even life itself.

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      Tilba+Tilba

      While some of your arguments are logical in theory, the reality is almost all cases (for example in Victoria) that are serious enough to warrant hospitalisation, and almost literally 100% of those requiring ICU care, or who die, are unvaccinated.

      So notwithstanding the issues of being infectious after vaccination, and how long vaccine immunity will endure, it seems very clear that vaccines prevent serious disease.

      But because the vaccines aren’t 100% effective, the vaccinated are “demanding” that everyone around them be vaccinated. And employers are doing so very strongly as well … they don’t want absenteeism, disruption, or legal liability.

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        Serp

        Try stepping back from the detail and confronting the big picture which is that we are now on course to endure a decade of our every gesture being micromanaged by bureaucracy and life’s too short to keep that up.

        As somebody remarked in a comment I saw ages ago on another blog our fatal mistake was in accepting that first two week lockdown to flatten the curve; the wedge was inserted and the despots haven’t missed an opportunity to ratchet the breach harder ever since.

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        clarence.t

        Efficacy proven to drop off rapidly to “not much” after 6 months.

        Just keep rolling up that sleeve for the next “booster” shot….

        …and hope Delta doesn’t get you in the mean time, because the vaccines don’t work well for that.

        Again, if the vaccines worked, the twojabs+ would not need to be scared of the untainted.

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    Truthseeker

    Why so many people buy into the narrative …

    Probably the most important interview you will watch.

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    Analitik

    Ivermectin works – Uttar Pradesh continues to dispense ivermectin in home medical kits while Kerala stopped and went for vaccination.

    Although Uttar Pradesh was only 5% vaccinated to Kerala’s 20%, Uttar Pradesh [population 240 million] had (only) 22 new COVID cases, while Kerala [population 35 million] was overwhelmed with 31,445 in one day.

    https://www.thedesertreview.com/opinion/columnists/indias-ivermectin-blackout—part-v-the-secret-revealed/article_9a37d9a8-1fb2-11ec-a94b-47343582647b.html

    From a video by Dr John Campbell

    Each home kit contained the following: Paracetamol tablets [tylenol], Vitamin C, Multivitamin, Zinc, Vitamin D3, Ivermectin 12 mg [quantity #10 tablets], Doxycycline 100 mg [quantity #10 tablets].

    https://youtu.be/eO9cjy3Rydc

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    garyh845

    A little confused as to why Sen Paul doesn’t reference this report out of Fauci’s own NIH, back in Jan:

    Lasting immunity found after recovery from COVID-19
    https://www.nih.gov/news-events/nih-research-matters/lasting-immunity-found-after-recovery-covid-19#.YFfNntEk3ig.twitter- At a Glance

    The immune systems of more than 95% of people who recovered from COVID-19 had durable memories of the virus up to eight months after infection

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    CHRIS

    KISS. Covid 19 is NOT the Boogie Man of viruses. While being artificially created by China as a potential biological weapon, Covid is no better or worse than any other variant (remember the Spanish Flu??). This alarmism of Covid is exactly the same type of alarmism related to AGW. I’m just waiting for a person on every street corner in a city or town, with a placard saying that “THE END OF THE VWORLD IS NIGH”. Humans will survive Covid and any other variation it might throw at us.

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    Doc

    These vaccines seem more like therapies than the traditional idea of a vaccine that sets up the immune system to wipe a virus out. The COVID-19 vaccines prevent the severe manifestations of a viral invasion seemingly only for a limited time. It seems the best thing after a jab would be to get infected to stimulate the immune system into developing the more complete ‘natural’ immunity. Otherwise, how many times and how often do we need to get boosters; how long do boosters extend cover ?

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