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Chinese official says solar and wind are too intermittent and unstable. They must use coal.

China seems to operate in its own bubble of rules 

China, emeishan lion statue.

Image by Chris Feser

Imagine the apoplexy if our ecology minister said we’d fund coal power in the third world? Why is it only China that gets to build coal at home and abroad? What kind of developing nation can’t afford to run on “solar and wind” but is rich enough to be helping build coal plants in other nations too?

China has ‘no other choice’ but to rely on coal power for now, official says

Evelyn Cheng. CNBC

“China’s energy structure is dominated by coal power. This is an objective reality,” said Su Wei, deputy secretary-general of the National Development and Reform Commission. CNBC translated his Mandarin-language comments, which he made late last week following Xi’s separate remarks at a U.S.-led global leaders climate summit.

“Because renewable energy (sources such as) wind and solar power are intermittent and unstable, we must rely on a stable power source,” Su said. “We have no other choice. For a period of time, we may need to use coal power as a point of flexible adjustment.”

He added that coal is readily available, while renewable energy needs to develop further in China.

In 2018 China cut solar subsidies because it was making electricity too expensive.

China also intends to keep financing coal power in other countries.

China’s ecology ministry indicated that China’s funding of coal power in the developing world will continue. “China has supported some developing countries in the construction of coal-fired plants overseas,” Li Gao, director general of the ministry’s department of climate change, told reporters in Mandarin that CNBC translated.

It suits China if no one else is competing with its Belt and Road Project

How many favours will China earn by being the only major power providing useful energy?

China Is the Odd Man Out on Overseas Coal Financing

Laura Edwards, National Interest.org, April 26th

Despite its growing role in sustainable development financePresident Xi Jinping reiterated at the [recent Biden] summit that ecological cooperation is a key aspect of China’s Belt and Road InitiativeChina made no promises to end coal financing abroad, even as Japan and South Korea, the second and third largest financiers of overseas coal power plants, take ambitious steps to stop funding overseas coal plants as part of their new climate change agendas. China, the world’s largest financier of overseas coal, is now the odd man out. Reducing global emissions cannot be achieved without moving away from coal. A pledge from China to end its financing for overseas coal plants would be a major boon to international climate efforts.

Who wants to be a superpower?

h/t GWPF

9.5 out of 10 based on 74 ratings

124 comments to Chinese official says solar and wind are too intermittent and unstable. They must use coal.

  • #

    Disappointingly the Chinese position makes an awful lot more sense than the stance taken by the West.

    Mind you, have there ever been richer or better educated lemmings than the ones eagerly running towards the cliff?

    680

    • #
      Denny

      If the recent UAH temperatures are an indication of what is in our future, China won’t be the only country involved in rationalization. Flattish temperatures for a decade or so will take the heat off the politicians……so to speak.

      80

      • #
        David Wojick

        Unfortunately, UAH is systematically ignored. In fact GW is typically defined as surface warming as “measured” by GISS and NOAA, which show lots of handy warming.

        51

    • #

      All those lemmings carrying their PHD certificates with them over the abyss.

      90

      • #
        John R Smith

        Ah, PHD certificates.
        Buster and Earl, brothers, brick masons, my first employers.
        Laying out Dixie wisdom.

        “Earl … ya’ know a piece of paper will lay there and let you put anything on it.”

        I had no idea at the time how right they were.
        At least part of me was smart enough to remember them saying it.

        70

  • #
    Kalm Keith

    It’s not the content of the message;

    “renewable energy (sources such as) wind and solar power are intermittent and unstable”.

    It’s the source. Did a Chinese official really say this; that’s a dangerous thing to say, even if it was in Mandarin.

    Just that one statement should be presented to every Australian politician who advocates the rapid implementation of Renewables.

    Really?
    A country like China, which has more total wealth than Australia could ever dream of, now states that they can’t afford to use “renewables” because they’re too expensive, at the moment. Ha hah.

    Maybe next year, after the West has completed its collapse.

    Maybe Zali should be the first one confronted, publicly and consistently until she comments.

    Any response that “China is a poor country and needs the exemption from renewables” could be immediately countered with the obvious reality that China could buy and sell Australia several times over.

    What do Mr. Albanese and Mr. Morrison think of this.

    Will our Australian media squib out on this?

    KK

    530

  • #

    BREAKING NEWS
    Su Wei, deputy secretary-general of the National Development and Reform Commission, has been transferred to a solar panel factory, where he will be working on an assembly line, with Uighur slave labor, for what was announced as “a very long period of time”.

    40

    • #

      Yeah Nah. The CCP are past caring. There are many speeches going on in China about their supremacy. They are not even trying to hide it. Letting out comments like this serves two purposes 1/ Rah rah for the domestic crowd. 2/ Feeds protests and division in the West, but won’t wake up many who were not already awake, thanks to Western Media and Politicians who have sold out or been captured via corruption or cult-ure.

      But in the end, arrogance can be a fatal flaw.

      280

      • #

        It is how we see China that makes us react appropriately. If we don’t recognise the problem we wont respond. Thank goodness democracy did its work in the US

        The Pew Research Centre survey, seeking one-word descriptions of US, includes some choice descriptions by Canadians and Mexicans.In a poll released Monday [April 2020] by the Pew Research Centre, Canadians picked “Trump” as the go-to word followed by various negative terms such as “chaos”, “confused”, “bully” and “arrogant”.

        Mexicans, meanwhile, focused much more on their economic relationship with their loud northern neighbour, drawing on terms such as “money” and “migration” followed by more negative words like “discrimination” and “racism”.

        115

        • #
          Sceptical Sam

          But yet….

          Those Mexicans, and all the others from south of the border (down Mexico way), bust a gut to get to live and work in that dreadful place – the US of A.

          Now why’s that?

          Perhaps GA has the answer? Don’t hold your breath.

          80

          • #

            There are 2 reasons. One is that Biden has for all intents and purposes opened up the border to anyone who wants to come. The second is that the illegal immigrants come from countries rampant with poverty and inept governments reinforcing that poverty.

            The left thinks we can solve the worlds poverty problem by importing it to America. All that will do is make America poor, but these idiots in power are so overcome with misplaced guilt about the success of freedom that they can no longer apply logic and reason to their policies and as a result are undermining the freedom that led to our success.

            To stop the flood of illegal immigration, all Biden has to do is be honest and let them know that the current administrations programmed destiny for America is much like what happened to Venezuela.

            60

            • #
              Sceptical Sam

              The left thinks we can solve the worlds poverty problem by importing it to America.

              Not just in America.

              That’s the standard strategy of the left, the socialists, the greens and the Communists.

              They never offer a hand up. They always look to drag success down. Soak the rich. Kill the Bourgeoisie. Nationalize industry.

              30

          • #

            I have the answer. Money.

            SS – it is possible to have a negative view on something but also recognise it is better than the thing you have.

            02

        • #

          Democracy has failed in America and has been replaced with a media that bends peoples minds to conform to a hate based ideology causing them to make really bad choices at the polls. Case in point – the O’Biden administration and a Congress controlled by Marxists.

          40

      • #

        Chinese dictator Xi is playing a public relations game with the west, pretending to be with them on their climate change fantasy … after 2030.

        They are just words, with no specific CO2 emissions reduction plan.

        It is hard to believe any Chinese government bureaucrat would be rewarded for making a statement contradicting Xi’s public relations campaign.

        80

    • #
      Kalm Keith

      🙂 🙂 🙂

      30

  • #
    TdeF

    So called ‘Renewables’ should be subject to false advertising laws and should be rated on minimum available power not maximum. That would be 0 in both cases.

    And sales information should include a mandatory statement of minimum life expectancy. Plus the warnings ‘batteries not included’ and ‘requires distribution system not included’. And warnings of the side effects of low frequency disturbance and likely destruction of eagles and other rare birds.

    570

    • #
      TdeF

      Plus the statement ‘made in China’ highly visible.

      360

      • #
        TdeF

        Misleading or deceptive conduct

        It is illegal for a business to engage in conduct that misleads or deceives or is likely to mislead or deceive consumers or other businesses. This law applies even if you did not intend to mislead or deceive anyone or no one has suffered any loss or damage as a result of your conduct.

        So for ‘renewables’ consider

        ‘Free’
        Businesses should be particularly careful of the use of the word ‘free’. The idea of getting goods or services without charge can create keen interest in consumers. Consumers will usually think of ‘free’ as absolutely free – a justifiable expectation.

        Simply put, businesses may get into trouble with free offers if they do not reveal the complete truth, including any conditions that the consumer must comply with.

        370

        • #
          Kalm Keith

          No doubt everything necessary has been covered in the fine print, which might take two lifetimes to read.

          140

        • #
          RickWill

          TdeF wrote:

          It is illegal for a business to engage in conduct that misleads

          It would be worth the effort to pursue this. It could be done at both State (Consumer Affars) and Federal level (ACCC). I wonder if it would garner a response?

          One of the issues is that “renewable energy” has become accepted vernacular:

          See synonyms for renewable energy on Thesaurus.com
          noun
          any naturally occurring, theoretically inexhaustible source of energy, as biomass, solar, wind, tidal, wave, and hydroelectric power, that is not derived from fossil or nuclear fuel.

          Even to the point of specifically excluding fossil or nuclear fuels.

          200

          • #
            RickWill

            Wind energy is provably non-renewable. None of the the original wind power used in the Netherlands was used to create any of the new wind generators. Without exception, every new wind generator and solar panels relies almost exclusively on fossil fuels for its production.

            410

        • #

          AEMO in one of its recent reports specifically mentioned about the “Free” energy available from solar and wind.

          As you note this is false and the relevant minister covering AEMO should have demanded its removal.

          210

          • #
            TdeF

            Agreed. No one talks about “Free” coal or “Free” gas. At least it is called “Natural” gas.

            110

        • #
          TdeF

          And this ‘developing’ nation sits as a permanent member of the Security Council. The five permanent members are “China, France, Russia, the United Kingdom, and the United States” And they all have nuclear missile capability. Only one claims to be a developing country which needs and receives cash from Carbon credits.

          120

    • #
      Dennis

      You probably won’t be surprised to read here that my local Members, Federal and State, replied to an email I sent to them regarding Nameplate/Installed Capacity and Capacity Factor, the substantial difference in real average energy output, thanking me for the information, they were not aware of this.

      So it’s not difficult to work out just how little politicians know but still support so called renewables, and reducing CO2 from the atmosphere: not much.

      110

    • #

      You forgot the big one for sales information:
      “Requires 100% fossil fueled back up power for nights (solar) and at random times every week (windmills).

      It should also be mandatory for all electric power customers — men women and children — to be supplied with four candles and one bright flashlight each, for those quiet, peaceful times when there is a blackout.

      50

  • #
    Michael Hammer

    How can China possibly claim to be a developing nation?

    It successfully challenges the west militarily, claims it is now the dominant nation on Earth and seems confident it could win a war with the west!

    Its military capability is apparently commensurate with that of the USA.

    It uses more coal than any other nation on Earth and its CO2 emissions are the largest of any nation on Earth!

    Its economy is rapidly increasing and is close to being the largest of any nation!

    It is in the process of putting its own space station into orbit. Which “developing nation” has the capacity to carry out a space program which rivals that of any other nation on Earth?

    China is a major world power, soon (if not already) to become the dominant power on Earth and it clearly does not believe the theory of AGW. Just paying lip service to placate the west while it pursues its objectives.

    540

    • #
      Yonniestone.

      It’s almost like other countries have given them unfair advantages to achieve all this for the benefit of a tiny fraction of their population that stand to make billions and obtain power even if their country is absorbed by China…….just saying.

      190

    • #
      el gordo

      Beijing wants to be on energy parity with the West before they agree to AGW restrictions.

      111

      • #
        Kalm Keith

        Are you implying that they aren’t?
        On a related tack we could plead Australia’s case as a “poor country” since China has ginormouse wealth by comparison.

        170

      • #
        David Maddison

        el gordo, China has more than energy parity with the West. The Chinese have cheap energy, unlike the West except the US under what remains of President Trump’s cheap energy policies.

        110

      • #
        el gordo

        Don’t shoot the messenger, it was a deal agreed upon in Brussels. The equivalent of a very long ‘white paper’, it beggars belief, peace in our time.

        00

      • #
        GD

        Beijing wants to be on energy parity with the West before they agree to AGW restrictions.

        Beijing will never agree to AGW restrictions or any other restrictions.

        50

    • #
      wokebuster

      Developing in the sense they are hatching a plan to dominate the planet by mid-century whilst leveraging the no shortage of useful idiots along the way.

      170

    • #
      Ronin

      I’ve always thought if you have nuclear power or weapons, have high speed rail and can manufacture aircraft or rockets or spacecraft, you are NOT a ‘developing’ country.

      150

    • #
      Deano

      The article says –

      “China has supported some developing countries in the construction of coal-fired plants overseas,” Li Gao, director general of the ministry’s department of climate change, told reporters in Mandarin that CNBC translated.”

      Genuinely ‘Developing countries’ aren’t usually able to support other developing countries. They too busy begging for money themselves.

      40

  • #
    Peter Fitzroy

    For Now, those 2 words change everything don’t they?

    /cherrypicking 101 grade – pass

    051

    • #
      David Maddison

      Peter, why do you and other windmill-o-philes and solar-philes remain silent about China being the world’s largest CO2 emitter (not that it matters to the science rationalists)? They are hardly a developing country as anyone who has ever been there will understand. Their cities are as advanced or more advanced than anything in the West.

      380

      • #
        Peter Fitzroy

        And they have the largest population, so per capita they are not a problem. Your advanced cities comment makes no sense

        030

        • #
          a happy little debunker

          so per capita they are not a problem

          Per Capita, China (8.1 tonnes per person) emits more than New Zealand (7.8 tonnes) & the UK (5.45 tonnes).
          Source year 2019

          270

          • #
            Kalm Keith

            And that doesn’t take into account the poisonous material pumped into the air from subsistence life out in the back blocks away from view.

            Cooking etc uses charcoal and wood and anything else handy that will burn to boil the Billy.

            Maybe when they get desperate, like India, they’ll use cow dungeons with all that uncounted methane.

            So that’s 8.1 tonnes pp plus the oils, resins, particulates etc from the “invisible” part of it.

            Are we being taken for a ride.

            190

        • #
          el gordo

          ‘And they have the largest population, so per capita they are not a problem.’

          The per capita meme is unacceptable, the reality is that they are emitting more than anyone else. They don’t care about our grandchildren.

          60

        • #
          GD

          Fitz reckons:

          [China has] the largest population, so per capita, they are not a problem

          Per capita is a useless statistic if you believe that the amount of anthropogenic CO2 in the atmosphere is heating the planet.

          (Which it is not.)

          40

    • #
      Yonniestone.

      As a child I watched the Wizard of Oz and wondered how someone could talk without a brain, later I saw climate trolls comment on the internet.

      490

      • #
        David Maddison

        The Wizard of Oz trio; no brains, no heart and no courage. They would make good politicians and/or Leftists.

        250

        • #
          Yonniestone.

          All led by a girl with no experience and a lap dog, hmmmm….a remake methinks?

          230

          • #
            Richard Owen No.3

            Yonnie:
            There is a new version of the old classic released. Chicken Little is now a teenager, Turkey Lurkey is a black feminist, and there is a new character Peter Rabbitbrain who constantly lectures the others about the quickest way to the fox’s den.

            130

          • #
            Richard Owen No.3

            Yonnie:
            My comment on that was censored.

            00

    • #
      TdeF

      Usual pointless sneering 101 grade – honours

      160

    • #
      el gordo

      For now we’ll wait until the climate changes, we have plenty of time. Its a Chinese hoax, sir.

      ‘China is now the world’s largest consumer of energy, the largest producer and consumer of coal, and the largest emitter of carbon dioxide. From 1990 to 2019, China’a coal consumption nearly quadrupled from 527 metric tons of oil equivalent (Mtoe) to 1,951 Mtoe. In 2019, coal made up 57.7 percent of China’s energy use.’ (China Power)

      160

      • #
        Analitik

        It’s {apostrophe added} a Chinese hoax, sir.

        Climate Change from CO2 emissions was a concept invented in the west. The Chinese are merely taking advantage of its {apostrophe not applicable for this context} widespread adoption.

        81

        • #
          el gordo

          The blogosphere breeds a casual atmosphere on grammatical matters, but thanks for the correction. I agree that AGW was invented in the West (millenarian madness) and the heathens took advantage.

          11

          • #
            Analitik

            The ease in which we are able to communicate behooves us to be diligent in the way we express our thoughts and opinions.

            10

    • #
      Kalm Keith

      Thank you for this very pertinent contribution.

      It’s an important reminder as to why Australia and the western world generally is in this sad mess.

      KK

      150

    • #
      R.B.

      Let’s use coal for now, until we figure out how to make renewables a proper alternative.

      That’s Gretaphobic.

      30

  • #
    David Maddison

    China is laughing all the way to world domination and also offers a very big 谢谢你 xièxiè nǐ to the useful idiots of the West.

    A) They encourage wind and solar development in the West via their network of useful idiots.

    B) They sell this civilisation-destroying technology to the West and profit from it.

    C) The same technology makes Western companies uncompetitive in the same markets as the Chi-comms compete in

    It’s win-win for the Chi-comms.

    450

    • #
      Kalm Keith

      Nicely summarised.

      170

    • #
      wokebuster

      Spot on. Unreliables are fine for countries in managed decline, but wholly inappropriate for a nation that wants to inherit the world.

      160

    • #
      DOC

      It’s worse than that. China also gave the world COVID-19 which is more socially and economically damaging than the destructive energy philosophy the UN gave us on the climate. China, via the CCP, can cope better with both due to its inhumane powers on the one hand and it’s refusal to bend to the UN science on the other. It’s no wonder China is roaring ahead of the crazy West, or the USA that dumped its Chinese ‘call-it-as-it-is’ equivalent in Trump, on the basis of his personality and ‘likability’ for an older man visibly devolving mentally, a Chinophile of recent history and intent on reversing the US ‘can do’ philosophy that made it so great. For domination purposes China could have things no better. One also wonders about the origin of all those ‘convenient’ mutations of COVID-19 that keep turning up. If scientists say the virus was ‘manufactured’, then what about those mutations? Is that too far a step? Whatever, those variants don’t spell well for an early return to ‘normality’. That’s right down China’s alley.

      110

    • #
      Kalm Keith

      O.K.
      So it just means “thank you”.

      Bland.
      🙂

      00

  • #
    Serge Wright

    This admission makes recent decisions by western leaders to dramatically cut emissions by using RE, seem even more pathetic. The take-out message is that China will build lots of useless RE products to sell to the useful idiots running western economies at great profit and will facilitate this outcome by using even more coal power. You couldn’t make this shist up if you tried.

    Of course you can’t blame the Chinese. They are simply taking advantage of a situation that is too good to be true and is now aided by having a dementia patent leading the developed world’s largest economy. But the greatest absurdity from this admission by the Chinese, (who manufacture most of the RE shist) that RE is too unstable to be used for grid energy, is that the useful idiots in the west will still believe in the RE fantasy and continue onward to self-destruction. The Chinese must wonder how the west ever become a dominant power in the first place.

    190

  • #
    Geoffrey Williams

    I love the Chinese at least they’re honest about renewables . . .
    All we get is lies from our media, our government and our scientists.
    GeoffW

    200

    • #
      Kalm Keith

      Exactly: and basically We have a problem that’s bigger than the one represented by China.

      Not that I like China, but the internal rot that we have is uglier and more dangerous.

      30

  • #
    David Maddison

    If we use false Leftist claims that increased CO2 is of anthropogenic origin, using their own false claims, we can actually correctly blame China and their army of useful idiots of the West (including the socialist billionaires who profit from the anthropogenic global warming fraud) for the “climate emergency”.

    The useful idiots remain silent about the world’s biggest CO2 emitter, a country intent on world domination and now bullying the US under their weak and demented “president” (as well as other Western countries).

    They are NOT a developing country!

    180

    • #
      DOC

      If you were profiting economically and philosophically from the status quo David, would you use ‘your’ worldwide social media assets to pull down the structures you have so empowered to put in place over the world and by which you further grow your profits? Those people, so few, are billionaires in both financial and influential power.

      For the rest of us, China’s assessment of renewables should potentially blow open the debate on our politicians about their blind headlong race into renewables and hence economic disaster. It’s not as though many haven’t thrown these same arguments at our politicians but they have been as water off the ducks back. Their belief on the fall guy, the Chief Scientist, is incredible. Our political system for some reason is totally wedded to these apparently insane, proven not-up-to-the-job failing systems. Failure and inadequacy cannot move them. I just don’t get what is driving them except an unwillingness to take on the fight where the facts defy their fiction, unless they all are just seat-warmers looking to be there after the next election.

      10

  • #

    The Chinese, with or without their Communist Overlords are more sensible than the current Woke crop of Western Politicians, who they can continue to grind their constituents into energy poverty without mercy, in pursuit of some Green Dream of Purity. The Chinese can see what does work and what doesn’t and what is and is not happening to the Climate.

    130

  • #
    David Maddison

    Further to my comments above, next time a Leftist asks you about what is now marketed as the “climate crisis” or “climate emergency”, simply say to them….

    What are YOU doing about the world’s largest CO2 emitter?”

    90

    • #
      Deano

      Unfortunately, the hypnotized Greenie groupies usually claim it’s up to us to lead by example.
      You can imagine them in a war throwing their guns away expecting the enemy to do the same. But I guess the enemy would have trouble keeping the cross hairs on them while laughing.

      20

  • #
    Peter Fitzroy

    It also has the largest population, so should it be measured as per capita?

    China will force regional grid firms to buy at least 40% of power from non-fossil fuel sources by 2030 in order to meet the country’s climate targets, according to a new government document seen by Reuters.

    China has ‘no other choice’ but to rely on coal power for now, official says (from the post)

    027

    • #
      David Maddison

      China has ‘no other choice’ but to rely on coal power for now, official says (from the post)

      Do you seriously believe that they will ever “transition” to unreliables Peter?

      They will soon dominate the world thanks to weak Western leadership plus useful idiots.

      They are not stupid.

      180

      • #
        Peter Fitzroy

        They have major air pollution problems, ditching coal makes sense. To Date they have delivered on every statement, commitment and plan, why should I apply western values (politically over promise and under deliver) to them?

        020

        • #
          Serge Wright

          “To Date they have delivered on every statement, commitment and plan,”

          Yes PF, they said they would increase emissions without a limit, up to 2030 and they are delivering 🙂
          If we apply eastern values then we should do the same.

          170

        • #

          Peter
          Misinformation again. What is happening is that older smaller and dirtier coal plants are being closed and replaced with much larger more efficient and CLEANER ones.

          My late father was involved in particulate removal from coal plants and for decades the technology has been readily available to do this. Go to any AU, or new Chinese coal plant and see this in action. Very clean from the stack.

          190

        • #
          GD

          Fitz kowtows:

          They have major air pollution problems, ditching coal makes sense.

          CO2 and water vapour aren’t air pollution. Particulate polluting older coal plants are being replaced by new cleaner and more efficient coal plants.

          China will never rely on wind and solar only.

          50

      • #
        Dennis

        Fossil fuelled power stations are still being constructed and commissioned in China, and for foreign aid recipient client nations, and all of these and most of the earlier constructed power stations will be operational for many decades after 2050.

        60

    • #
      Serge Wright

      The per-capita measure of CO2 is green Marxist propaganda designed to put pressure on small western countries such as Australia to de-industrialise, and to remove focus from China, the largest emitter, so it can continue towards world dominance. In essence, pushing this per-capita measure is a sign that you don’t believe in AGW, but you do believe in wealth and global power re-distribution and the destruction of capitalism and democracy.

      110

      • #
        Peter Fitzroy

        Serge – the per capita argument is used by the Australian Prime Minister, Scott Morrison, who last time I looked, was not green, nor Marxist.

        117

        • #
          Serge Wright

          Yes, our PM did use this measure, but against the green idiots as a way of deflecting their claims that Australia had not made any cuts in emissions. Due to a large surge in immigration our population has gone up, causing a lowering of per-capita emissions. There is a twist of amusing irony that he is now using it against the same idiots who came up with the scam concept in the first place.

          170

          • #
            Peter Fitzroy

            So a green, marxist argument is used against green marxists? By the way, the internationally agreed system is about absolute emissions. Maybe you should chat with David M

            121

            • #
              Kalm Keith

              This isn’t about “green Marxism”, look at the contrast between China’s extraordinary wealth in the cities and the poverty out in the region’s.

              China has heaps of money; the problem is that the Greedy Wealthy Pseudo Greens won’t be fair and share it with the people they exclude from the party.

              A Fair Share for All Chyna!

              110

              • #
                David Maddison

                Proper modern coal plants don’t emit air pollution Peter, only CO2 and water and very little else. So China’s pollution problem is not due to proper coal plants, perhaps due to poor combustion of coal or wood in fires. They could produce 100% of electricity from modern coal plant and have clean air just like any Western country if they wanted.

                And don’t forget, critics of the regime’s policies over there tend to go to jails, slave labor camps or get shot.

                120

              • #
                David Maddison

                My comment 12.2.1.1.1 was meant to be a reply to 12.1.1.

                10

              • #
                Peter Fitzroy

                David – you statement is demonstrably false – a furnace emits whatever is put into it, and by extension what is in the feedstock. You are claiming that coal is only carbon by this logic. If it was true what is fly ash, why install sulphur treatments. where do the heavy metals and trace elements go?

                113

              • #
                Peter Fitzroy

                China only has 3.3% of its people in poverty, so has a poverty level some 22% of the USA’s 15.1%. Furthermore, the absolute number of people in poverty in the USA appears to be on the basis of this CIA data, almost 49 million people, or about 3.6 million more than those in China.

                111

              • #
                Dennis

                Take a drive on roads in China and note the enormous number of 2-stroke engine vehicles belching exhaust emissions, also Diesel engines.

                They even use farm machinery, hand guided ploughs with the ground engaging tools removed, as tractors to pull rickety wooden carts to move goods and people.

                90

              • #
                el gordo

                Hat tip to Premier Ji who intends to eliminate poverty at home first and along the Belt and Road over time. The West don’t understand this new form of capitalism.

                Seeing poverty in a wealthy society is an obscenity, no moral compass.

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                another ian

                Re David M’s

                “And don’t forget, critics of the regime’s policies over there tend to go to jails, slave labor camps or get shot.”

                The welcome sign at one Albanian forced labour camp

                “This is Burrel Where People Enter but Never Leave”

                Eric Newby in “On the shores ofr the Mediterranean”

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        David-of-Cooyal-in-Oz

        G’day Serge,
        Victoria is doing its bit to help Australia de-industrialise, aided as usual by their ABC with a beautiful picture of black steam as evidence.
        https://www.abc.net.au/news/2021-05-03/emissions-target-to-force-coal-closures/100111694
        Cheers
        Dave B

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          another ian

          The way Victoria is going Ned Kelly’s armour plant will qualify as heavy industry.

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          Serge Wright

          Dictator Dan obviously has dreams about making Victoria a southern state of China and declaring himself ‘glorious emperor’ of the people’s new southern state. But, right about now he’s probably a bit upset about having his belt and road debt initiative ripped up by Scomo, which will set back his plan to have his state taken over by his Chinese masters for failure to repay.

          On a positive thought, hopefully Dictator Dan will one day work out that climbing up the rungs of the communist ladder is dangerous for westerners and he’s likely to slip and fall, possibly even hurting his back well before he gets to the top. Oh wait … 😉

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      Ronin

      So the answer is to ‘breed up and spread the blame’.

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        Chad

        Except there is no “blame” to be spread !
        Remember, CO2 is not a pollutant !

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          Dennis

          It must be, “carbon pollution”, it’s just invisible and odourless and difficult to detect.

          sarc.

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      Sceptical Sam

      Peter Fitzroy says:

      China has ‘no other choice’ but to rely on coal power for now, official says (from the post)

      Sounds like the “Three Billy Goats Gruff”. (Eat my brother who is on his way – he’s fatter).

      But guess who the Troll is.

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    another ian

    Willis E. runs some more numbers

    “Japan Joins The Lemmings”

    https://wattsupwiththat.com/2021/05/02/japan-joins-the-lemmings/

    “And that means that to achieve Minister Koizumi’s dream-driven target, Japan would have to find a site for, get all permits and licenses for, excavate, manufacture, install, test, and commission a brand-new 1.6 GW nuclear plant every two weeks from now until 2030. (By comparison, each of the six nuclear reactors at the Fukushima plant was half of that, 0.8 GW …)

    A. New. Nuclear. Plant. Every. Two. Weeks. Until. 2030.

    Yeah, that’s totally legit …”

    He’s already had a look at US

    https://wattsupwiththat.com/2021/04/21/the-latest-co2-fantasy/

    Next, from today until January 1st, 2030, when Biden’s plan calls for our emissions to be down to 3,000 MT of CO2 per year, there are about 454 weeks.

    And that means we need to find sites, do the feasibility studies, get the licenses and the permits, excavate, manufacture, install, test, and commission two 2.25 gigawatt nuclear power plants EVERY WEEK UNTIL 2030, STARTING THIS WEEK.”

    And

    https://wattsupwiththat.com/2021/01/27/bright-green-impossibilities/

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  • #
    Analitik

    Again, we should commit to CO2 emissions reductions to follow China’s achieved reductions on a 2 year trailing basis

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    • #
      Peter Fitzroy

      By percentage, or by tonnes? (hint check the worldometer site before shooting at your foot)

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      • #
        Yonniestone.

        You are seriously beyond redemption Peter, after all the researched and even expert opinions on all scientific based debates you have been privy to on this site you still continue to show no acceptance or complete ignorance of absolute evidence provided, at some point the good people here will have to accept you are either a wannabe troll like agitator doing the work of Gaia or have no ability whatsoever to learn or grasp what is reality.

        Hint, look up the term “out of your depth”.

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        Analitik

        Either is fine since China won’t achieve any reductions

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    Simon B

    Because renewable energy (sources such as) wind and solar power are intermittent and unstable, we must rely on a stable power source,” Su said. “We have no other choice. For a period of time, we may need to use coal power as a point of flexible adjustment.” Sounds like a good enough reason for a small population like Australia if it’s good enough for $1.5bn Chinese and their ambition to ‘assist’ $1bn Africans!

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  • #

    Someone has mentioned the wording ….. ‘for now’.

    Let’s then add some perspective to that phrase, shall we.

    China is adding those USC coal fired plants (just in China alone mind you) at the rate of one new large scale plant every seven to ten days, and has been doing that for almost 15 plus years now. They are still doing that and will be doing it for at least 15 to 20 more years.

    Each of those new coal fired plants has a life expectancy of 50 years.

    So, even if they stopped altogether those construction at the end of those 15 years, then that phrase ….. ‘for now’ takes us out to 2085.

    That’s a pretty long ‘for now’.

    Tony.

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    • #
      Peter Fitzroy

      did you not read the article? they are talking about 2030 – sorry to burst your bubble

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      • #
        Analitik

        Why on earth would China be investing in infrastructure with a 50 year lifespan (38 GW alone this year) if they are to be made redundant in 8? That’s even dumber than the ghost cities.

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    David Maddison

    Thise “useful idiots” helping to deindustrialise the West on China’s behalf, you do realise the Chi-comms think your idiots as well, don’t you,?

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    David Maddison

    Those not thise and you’re not your.

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    Flok

    At least China is being realistic, which is something that our government needs to include in their narrative.

    To de-carbonise the economy without securing energy supply is plain stupid. Setting goals like 2030-2050-2060 is just blowing hot steam. World has gone through countless and expensive exercises that have proven renewable solutions as unsustainable for their intended use. Reality in these cases never mirrored the boardroom power point presentations.

    It appears that procrastination is a rolling average of politics. Perhaps we can use it as a source of energy and produce another W-h-at-t.

    At this point the solutions being offered are equal to saying that we need something other than electricity. What could possibly replace electricity?

    These discussions keep repeating themselves, running around in circles, like true citizens of universe just orbiting aimlessly.

    Solutions are in energy efficiency optimisation that will see the costs of living lowered and consequently reduce the output of pollution and greenhouse gases at no cost and well above the set targets.

    Ditching hydrocarbon and fossil fuel is not the easy way out without a proper transition plan. Problem with this is that the governments are limited by greed of their short 4 or 5 year elected mandate. They are seen making stupid decisions for the sake of being seen to be doing something.

    Securing the future does not start with a gold and platinum plated bandage.

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      Flok

      Forgot to add

      As long as China remains a communist regime it will not and by the communist DNA cannot play well with others.

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    Mark Allinson

    How often do we hear that “the smart money is on renewables” – all that “free” energy from Nature.

    Why then is China being so stupid in continuing to power itself with dirty, evil coal?

    Can’t they see how much money they could save by going with renewables?

    Or do they prefer an energy source which allows them to develop and maintain heavy industries, like ship and tank building?

    Hard to smelt metals using only sunbeams and wind-puffs.

    But it all makes sense if you are a pro-communist “progressive” who wants to see the West gelded industrially so that a strong China can begin the one-world government process on behalf of the UN.

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      Dennis

      Self made US multi billionaire Warren Buffett explained that without government/taxpayer subsidies for profit nobody would invest in so called renewables, wind or solar.

      The technology cannot perform without back up systems and storage of energy, or maintain essential grid baseload electricity.

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    […] JoNova; CNBC; According to Su Wei, Deputy Secretary-General of the National Development and Reform […]

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    Analitik

    OT, sort of
    Watch for possible blackouts in NY state this summer as the 2 GW Indian Point nuclear power plant has just closed. The plant is supposed to be replaced by offshore windfarms but even if this replacement was technically feasible (and anyone with the slightest electrical engineering knowledge knows it’s bunkum) those offshore windfarms haven’t been built yet.

    It would be like closing down a 1.6 GW coal power plant in the Hunter Valley with planned solar and wind farms (not to mention the 1 GW “firming” combined cycle gas plant) not yet deployed.

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    […] JoNova; CNBC; According to Su Wei, Deputy Secretary-General of the National Development and Reform […]

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  • #

    […] h/t JoNova; CNBC; According to Su Wei, Deputy Secretary-General of the National Development and Reform Commission, renewable energy is too unreliable to power China. […]

    00