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A Dutch Court says Shell is causing storms and floods. And Exxon shareholders vote to lose money

Who knew?

Shell lobbies for climate change, and gets what it lobbied for.

It doesn’t matter how much a company panders to the Religion.

The Pagan Chieftan hath spoken and decided that Shell not only has to cut its own emissions nearly in half, it improbably, somehow, is responsible for its customers emissions too. Will Shell put photos of heatwave casualties with warning labels on oil cans: “This product may cause Tornadoes”?

Shell is reaping the rewards of playing the “climate” game. They didn’t stand up against the climate witchery when it came for the coal industry, and now its come for them.

Oil Giants Are Dealt Major Defeats on Climate Change as Pressures Intensify

By Sarah McFarlane and Christopher M. Matthews, Wall Street Journal

In a first-of-its-kind ruling, a Dutch court found that Shell is partially responsible for climate change, and ordered the company to sharply reduce its carbon emissions. Hours later in the U.S., an activist investor won at least two seats on Exxon’s board, a historic defeat for the oil giant that will likely require it to alter its fossil-fuel focused strategy.

The Shell ruling, issued by the district court in The Hague, found that Shell must curb its carbon emissions by 45% by 2030 compared with 2019 levels—and that the company was responsible not only for lowering its own direct emissions from drilling and other operations, but also those of the oil, gas and fuels eventually burned by consumers.

The target is in line with United Nations guidance …

Figure the kind of precedent this sets. It’s like consumers are babies who aren’t responsible for their own emissions. Like people who sell cars cause the road deaths and potato farmers need to make sure customers drink Vodka responsibly. Don’t pull too hard on this string or our civilization might unravel.

Shell was obeying all the laws made by governments elected by voters, but who cares about them? The unelected and unaccountable UN declared that oil raises the tide, and therefore a judge now sets national policy on energy, and on tides.

Meanwhile Exxon become a kind of Transgender company — a company with an identity crisis.

The shareholders who bought Exxon because it made profits on oil and gas apparently voted (or enough of them did) to put two activists on the Board to make the oil giant invest in something other than oil. Whether two seats out of 12 can achieve much is a fair question but the company is already bleating about “getting the message from shareholders”.

Activists are very good at political games like winning board seats, but they won’t be good at making profits. So what’s next? Will the oil giants gradually grind down — effectively sabotaged into putting more money into loss making green ventures? That will increase the Green-Blob jobs market at the expense of shareholders, customers and tax revenue. But the world will still want fossil fuels. Will Shell or Exxon become hollowed out shells, transmogrifying into some other entity, while some other companies start up in the Cayman Islands to supply the oil instead? Will those companies be owned by Chinese or Iranian investors, will the tax dollars and jobs still go the USA or the Netherlands — or will a new empire of industrial giants rise up to replace the old ones led by CEOs who bow to no one and apologize for nothing?

Ultimately these companies were lost years ago when they stopped believing in what they sell

Shell advert for alternative energy.

Both Shell and Exxon lost a lot of their branding and goodwill in the last 20 years. Even the shareholders don’t believe in Exxon any more,  or not enough to fight for it.  Exxon tried, putting in about $30 million dollars to help some skeptics — but against the $79 billion put in by Big Government, it was nothing, and Exxon was vilified. It gave up the intellectual fight for oil and gas, and gave in to the bullies. Shell didn’t even fight. (Though they will appeal the court decision, they’re hardly taking up the battle to defend oil and gas, and real science.) The companies were already hollowed shells. For years Shell were happy to play the “climate” games. They leaned on the World Bank to nobble the competition (coal). 

It took very few shares to push them over:

Exxon’s loss came at the hands of Engine No. 1, an upstart hedge fund owning only about 0.02% of the oil giant’s stock. It had waged an aggressive campaign challenging the company’s energy transition strategy and response to climate change, depicting it as a corporate dinosaur.

The vote at the company’s annual meeting capped a pitched, monthslong battle between the company and the activist to persuade Exxon shareholders, that turned into one of the most expensive proxy fights ever.

Engine No. 1 called for Exxon to gradually diversify its investments to be ready for a world that will need fewer fossil fuels in coming decades.

Exxon has spent millions on renewable energy research, but it doesn’t matter. Feeding the crocodile only makes it a bigger crocodile:

Exxon defended its strategy to expand drilling, saying demand for fuels and plastics will remain strong for years to come, and pointed to a new carbon capture and storage business unit as evidence it is taking climate change seriously.

The votes were leveraged by pension funds which invest money for people who mostly don’t vote nor spend their own money on “climate change”:

The hedge fund got a big boost from some of Exxon’s largest shareholders. BlackRock Inc. backed three of Engine No. 1’s candidates, and some of the largest U.S. pension funds also supported the activist’s slate.

Asset managers are, themselves, under pressure to exert influence on their portfolio companies…

Once upon a time companies were run by and for shareholders?

Marvel at how the tail wags the dog. In Australia a little committee called ASCI parasitically creams $4m a year off big companies who pay a tithe to them to be a member in order to get a badge to shield them from climate bullies or something. But then ASCI uses that money to isolate and harrass individual directors and bully them into submission or oust them in votes.

These industrial giants like Exxon are a microcosm for the West in so many ways. They forgot their reason for being, then got set upon by white ants while tens of thousands of sleeping consumers, employees and  shareholders have wealth and opportunity quietly eaten away.

Shell and Exxon are not dead yet. But who will resuscitate them?

 

 

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9.8 out of 10 based on 74 ratings

149 comments to A Dutch Court says Shell is causing storms and floods. And Exxon shareholders vote to lose money

  • #
    wokebuster

    So much stupidity in the world today. You just don’t know where to look. Fortunately the ancient wisdom of a “fool and his money are soon parted” sorts things out.

    410

    • #
      PeterS

      Well said. Unfortunately, they are working on the Great Reset to take away our money first.

      350

    • #
      a happy little debunker

      Trouble is that the fools of government are quite willing and capable of taking your money to indulge in their fantasies.

      330

      • #
        PeterS

        Trouble is the greater fools are those who keep voting for the one or the other major parties. As long as most voters keep doing that and expect a different result but fail to get it then they are fools extraordinaire. Of course it’s not that simple but if we are to send a clear message to both parties we are not happy with they way they are managing things then the blame rests with the people as well as the governments, and not solely with the governments. Ping ponging between two failed parties no matter how much one is “less evil” than the other is not the answer but instead is a recipe for disaster.

        181

    • #
      Hatrack

      “Determine what the absurdity accomplishes and you will have found its purpose.”

      Lionell Griffith
      August 12, 2009

      150

    • #
      robert rosicka

      Why don’t Shell just remove all interests out of the country and reduce any fuel imports by 45%.

      160

    • #
      wal1957

      Stupidity? How about this.
      Sleepy Joe Biden and his government want to change the law so as to allow gun manufacturers to be sued by victims of gun violence.
      This is akin to sueing car makers for the idiot behind the wheel of a car that deliberately hits people with his vehicle.
      Where can this lead? Will knife and fork makers be sued for making these instruments that in the hands of an aggressor can injure or kill? There are potentially thousands of devices that can be used as a tool to maim or kill.
      Welcome to the ‘brave new world’ where common sense has no standing.

      310

      • #
        Richard Jenkins

        In USA they are refusing to devine what they mean by, “leathal weapon”. This could include, knife, fork, screwdriver, and many other things.
        Without a more specific definition it is crazy.
        Note the pen is more deadly than the sword. Ban pens?

        140

        • #

          Ban pens?

          Ban everything. Tiles coming down a roof are as dangerous as dogs running mad, people can drown in their own bath, trains derail, planes crash etcaetera

          30

      • #
        Binny Pegler

        If you fail a test you can sue the maker of the pen you used.

        110

      • #
        Harves

        Does this mean victims of criminals who are out on bail can sue the judge that let them out?

        50

  • #
    el gordo

    White Anting

    ‘The case, which industry experts say may serve as a precedent for other European oil majors, came the same day as ExxonMobil was dealt a blow with an small hedge fund unseating two board members in a bid to force the US company to diversify beyond fossil fuels and fight climate change.’ (SMH)

    70

    • #
      GlenM

      I hear that AMPOL is to make a comeback in Australia. Fightback.

      100

      • #
        PeterS

        Sort of. Before Caltex in Australia recently renamed its brand back to Ampol, Caltex here was still an Australian company. They used the Caltex brand under licence from Chevron. At least we have our old Australian brand name back on display.

        200

    • #
      David-of-Cooyal-in-Oz

      G’day e g,
      The madness has reached, or perhaps is now inundating Australia. Our Federal Court has just found in favour of a bunch of school kids in a cse against the Environment Minister Sussan Ley:
      ” The federal court judge accepted evidence that climate change was caused by carbon dioxide emissions, that it was probably already unlikely to be halted without temporarily passing the target of 1.5 degrees, and that if allowed to continue above two degrees unchecked , it would cause tipping points to be triggered, leading to average global surface temperatures to rise by four degrees by the end of the century, unleashing massive destruction. ”

      The extract is from today’s SMH. (Sorry, can’t get a link to the story.)

      My summary:
      A mob of Greens took a compliant Green department to the law to bypass science.

      Cheers
      Dave B

      270

  • #
    Tony Dique

    The only thing more dangerous than politicians deciding science, is judges doing so. At that point, we’re finished.

    470

  • #
    Johnnie

    Mean while the Bolsheviks will dance around their vodka bottles at Exxon’s stupidity. The Russians will gain biggly from this, they can get away with shooting down 300 innocent airline passengers over Donestek in 2014, any court who brings this type of climate change crap to their door step, will just get stood on with a Russian Army jackboot

    112

    • #
      GlenM

      Malaysian Airlines are as culpable as the moron who ordered the launch of the missile by flying through challenged airspace. Most other carriers diverted. Russia is partly responsible and most accept that its separatists in Donets fired at a mistaken target.

      60

      • #
        Serp

        I read somewhere at the time the team with the ordnance had been told Putin was on board.

        20

  • #
    Rosco

    Easy to defeat this nonsense – just shut down all “fossil fueled” energy and see how long it is before there [snip “is a backlash of protests against – J] supporters of Net Zero including idiot judges on walls of cities around the world.

    [Edited, it could be taken the wrong way. – J]

    281

    • #

      Yes Rosco, the Sydney Morning Herald ran an article claiming people were happy to pay more for energy to help fight climate change.

      Firstly, this is a complete and utter lie. When people find their job gone and food, fuel, power and virtually every price for all goods and services skyrocketing they will revolt. Renewables are a complete con and will only deliver vastly increased power prices and significant unreliability, read blackouts on a regular basis.

      Secondly, as we know, the climate always changes. Fighting it is just like King Canute jousting at waves – a useless and pointless process. And given that the Sun and other factors far outweigh the evil CO2 nothing will happen here.

      Thirdly, all of this is targetting the West. India, China and Africa will roar ahead and their emissions will dwarf any reductions here or elsewhere. So even if Co2 achieved the mythical properties ascribed to it by the Greens, there would be no reductions at all in warming.

      I do believe that there will be a significant push back when the huge price increases start to appear and people realise that the “cheap prices” are a complete lie, and that their livelihood and lifestyle will be severely impacted. The first major blackout event will probably be waved away but when more and more appear it won’t be pretty.

      140

      • #
        StephenP

        Cnut was demonstrating to his sycophantic courtiers that there were things that he couldn’t control.

        Maybe we need a modern day Cnut to do the same with the Climate Change movement.

        110

    • #
      Erny72

      Hi Rosco,

      All it takes is a sufficient inflation of cost of living to kick off the backlash; the Gillets Jaunes protests in France should be a wake up call to both Gang-Green and to globalist career politicians (not that I’ll hold my breath expect either to take any notice).
      As Peter S noted above, nothing will change until enough people are voting for minor parties whose manifestos specifically oppose squandering money and undermining mobility and energy distribution in futile efforts to ‘tackle gullible warming’. You can make some difference by refusing to buy products from green or woke virtue signaling companies. Within ‘evil big oil’, the prevailing view, at least among the minions and middle managers, is that we must ‘go green’ because consumers and markets demand it. So buy your petrol from Liberty or Ampol (really, are they back?) instead of Shell or Esso, don’t buy anything with ‘Eco’, ‘Green’ or ‘Carbon Neutral’ on the label and if your ‘lecky provider offers you the ‘opportunity’ to spend more on your bill so they can guarantee you get ‘100% unreliable energy’, you tell them to jam it where the sun don’t shine.
      And make an informed vote at elections.

      30

  • #
    Penguinite

    Wow! What a precedent! Shell must reject and appeal! Otherwise, Shell shares will be worth less tomorrow and every day hereafter! Surely the Dutch Government won’t condone this stupidity.

    190

    • #

      Go woke, go broke.

      Indeed look at the Australian energy company prices. Origin et al are all well down vs the ASX 200 index. All that virtue signalling and closing of fossil plants will do is reduce their ability to sell energy and make money. People will buy their own generators and set up their own supply, further destroying them.

      Shell and co need to appeal for their own sakes and the sake of their shareholders. But they won’t as the dunces who run it and other large companies have no idea on economics or running companies, which they will learn to their damage in the coming years.

      51

      • #
        RickWill

        The push for low density power generation is shaping up to fuel the greatest boom the mining industry has ever seen. Iron ore at USD206/t. It cost about AUD15/t to put it on ship. Copper is above pre GFC levels.

        The companies that get on board the gravy train train and keep it motoring will do extremely well. If it continues, miners will rule the globe. Coal is a dead duck for the likes of Rio and BHP. It tarnishes their brand when there are much more profit in playing the game.

        Shell in Australia is a gas company. They recognise the shift from coal to gas as the only viable option at the moment. I do not know if Shell has sold their coal assets in Australia.

        The cost to power the economy from weather dependent sources is ENORMOUS. The cost to electrify transport is ASTRONOMICAL

        41

  • #
    StephenP

    Are the hedge funds looking to short the stock prices of the large oil firms so that they can make a fortune?
    Stock traders don’t like a level market, they much prefer plenty of rises and falls.

    140

    • #
      Sceptical Sam

      And, they prefer to know what the decision is going to be before it’s announced.

      This is a very good example of why the market supervisor needs to check who is loaded up with shorts and when they bought them.

      20

  • #
    Lance

    Petrol prices will climb as a result of this.

    A bit of perspective from the US:

    A year ago, people were paying 0.8 USD/Liter for the same fuel.

    A Pipeline went down for a week from a ransomeware attack. In some places prices reached 1.85 USD/Liter for a few days. People totally freaked out. Some places saw violence over shortages and prices.

    If Exxon-Mobil incurs costs or losses, they will either pull out of EU locations or raise prices to cover costs.
    If E-M reduces production, prices will rise.
    It won’t take too long for the citizenry to become vocal, vengeful, and angry.

    Because of Govt induced inflation and fuel costs, Corn has doubled in price. Food costs are going up fast.
    Lumber costs have increased 300% to 500%. Copper has increased 100%.
    Add up all of these influences, and rapid inflation or a recession is very likely.

    There will be all kinds of sociological push-back from these elements.
    People are unsettled as it is. Stirring this up more isn’t wise.

    Smart countries will tell the UN and Judges using UN wild ass guesses to hobble corporations, to go pound sand.

    260

    • #
      Lance

      Something went wonky. In 2020, USA was paying 0.50 USD/L, in 2021 0.80 USD/L.

      In California, they pay some additional 0.3 USD/L because of taxes and politics and enviro stuff, and have for years.

      80

      • #
        Chris

        The wonkiness was called an election- 2020 America was self sufficient in energy – not any more.

        90

      • #
        James Murphy

        if the inflation rate goes up, and Biden keeps borrowing money like he can’t count, whilst also revoking tax cuts, not only is the US government taking more from its people, but it is also devaluing all the savings that people have worked for. Just twisting that knife a little bit more… because they obviously hate America more than the average ISIS, Taliban, BLM, or Extinction Rebellion fanatic.

        100

    • #
      RickWill

      The three top selling vehicles in the USA are pick-up trucks ranging in mass from 2.5t up to 4.5t. Fuel prices at USD1.85/litre will soon see hybrids populating the roads. Europe has had fuel prices like that for a long time. Their cars are lighter and fuel efficient; German cars on average.

      China will pick up the slack with fossil resources, unbridled by woke ideas that the UN push. They have lots of USDs to buy resources in the USA and around the world. They won’t be bothered by courts. They will just bribe whoever they need or disappear the difficult ones.

      My son who lives in the UK has never owned a car and he is now in his early 40s. He has two young children. They walk and train and use a cab to/from the train if the weather is really bad. They do not see the need for a car. The trains are certainly time saving compared to cars.

      The education system is changing the attitude of kids to how they will live and their level of consumption.

      11

      • #
        Erny72

        HI Rick,
        How much of this altered level of consumption is ‘the education system changing the attitude of kids’ and how much is due to once affordable nice to haves, like owning and driving a car, becoming unaffordable?
        I have a mate living in Oslo, a real petrol head, who has not owned a car since moving there. His decision is not based on some green epiphany, it is because the cost to buy, register, fuel, service and park the car and also cover road tolls every few kilometers is made prohibitive by high taxation. Despite that, traffic congestion makes his commute by car less efficient than the catching scum shovel or walking on the odd days when the weather is clement.

        00

  • #
    TdeF

    “The shareholders who bought Exxon because it made profits on oil and gas apparently voted (or enough of them did) to put two activists on the Board to make the oil giant invest in something other than oil. ”

    I suspect that activists capture the boards of woke Superannuation companies with trillions to invest and use those investments to force compliance. It is not the investors who control these superannuation companies, but in Australia the activist Unions who forced the creation of compulsory superannuation in the first place, people not being trusted to invest wisely enough to provide for their old age.

    Workers Unions are so far distanced from their members that workers are voting conservative. Besides, the point of rising to the top in an industry union is to get onto a superannuation board, which is accountable to no one. Or to get to Prime Minister as with Bill Shorten or Anthony Albanese. And then you can please your socialist friends with your unfettered power to shut down investments in coal or even in banking. Too bad about all the workers who lose their jobs, but Unions have not been concerned about workers rights or jobs for a very long time. They are a rich communist fifth column in Western society, as always.

    360

    • #
      David Maddison

      See my comment #10 re infiltration.

      50

    • #
      TdeF

      Cold blooded opportunists rise to the top through any path. Destroying the fabric of society is intentional.

      Stalin and Hitler were violent criminals who could not prosper in a meritocracy and the difference between Stalin’s communism and Hitler’s socialism was zero. Both devastated their own people and their neighbours.

      Woke politics is not about right and wrong at all, fairness or justice at all. It is about unfettered power.

      And destroying the viability of their own economies because in disaster, the opportunists can rise to the top and freedom of expression and liberty are the first casualties. Even history is rewritten and the statues of former heroes and freedom fighters torn down. Sound familiar? The Terror after the French Revolution only stopped with the execution of the man who started it.

      In Australia alone, far too much financial power is in the hands of undemocratic Unions who now control more cash than the parliament. And it is the same around the world. And Australian banks are being pushed to refuse finance for coal, manufacturing and even farming to ‘save the planet’. There is no science in this new holy grail of carbon neutral. Any talk of science has stopped for a decade despite not a single prediction coming true.

      We are the grip of activist controlled institutions who want the coal, oil and gas companies, manufacturers and farmers of the West to commit hara kiri.

      350

  • #
    Neville

    What a delusional fantasy and then they tell us we should be using more of their TOXIC, UNRELIABLE S&W RUINABLES for our future energy requirements?
    And kids are suffering and dying in the Congo just so we can drive EVs and use these S&W disasters.
    And every 20 years we have to replace these TOXIC disasters and start again, FOREVER. And the entire TOXIC MESS ends up in landfill so that we always pollute the environment above and below the ground. See Shellenberger, Lomborg, Koonin etc.

    230

  • #
    David Maddison

    Don’t forget that a lot of these companies, if not most, as well ascacademia and government, have been infiltrated by Leftists and happily play along with the woke BS as long as they think it benefits them (including personal gain, not just corporate).

    It’s Rudi Dutschke’s “long march through the institutions” (der lange Marsch durch die Institutionen) which started in 1967.

    It worked because conservatives and those on the rational side of science remained silent.

    220

    • #
      Lance

      The Long March ideology results in inefficiency, hyperinflation, poverty, and war, as it mis-allocates resources and thereby undermines economies and economics in general.

      It won’t take long for whatever benefits Wokies expect to materialize, simply don’t.

      Once this foolishness goes too far, the result will be large scale violence, in my opinion.

      Perhaps it is time to invest in pikes, tar, feathers, rope, lead, and other useful things.

      170

      • #
        David Maddison

        Yes, we don’t tar and feather politicians anymore, and the failure to do so shows…

        150

      • #
        Ronin

        Just a thought, if the oil industry continues to shut down, where will we get the tar for a good tar and feathering.

        140

    • #
      TdeF

      My point is that in Australia at least, unqualified and non democratic Union leaders are in de facto charge of trillions. And they are accountable to no one. Whether they are leftists or not, they can play all the games they like and being woke is the current game. Of course they have always been reliant on the communist party (called socialists like Green Lee Rhiannon, trained in Moscow) and currently happy to work with the Chinese Communist party (like Victorian Premier/Dictator) Daniel Andrews.

      We are shut down, locked up in Victoria for a week. 6 months now of shutdown!

      And it is more about Daniel Andrews renewal of dictatorial powers on June 6th. In his triumphant return from his incredible and suspicious broken back event, he wants another six months without parliamentary oversight as he rebuilds his Belt and Road deal with the Chinese Communist party. Meanwhile Andrews allowed BLM march, and now 78,000 to a football game but our National military ANZAC day was limited to 5,000. For our safety. And he will try again to pass legislation which allows him to bypass the law with his own thugs who can arrest without notice, indefinitely and without any explanation or oversight by the police or the courts.

      I cannot believe anyone would allow such a thing, but he was only stopped by two Green votes in the Upper house! Such a thing has not happened in a Western democracy since 1933 in Munich, after which all political parties were banned as Herr Hitler took absolute control and his brown shirts controlled what was a democracy. Andrews should be in jail, not parliament. Under his own laws directly responsible for the deaths of 820 people, but Fair Work Australia has refused to act on his laws. Nothing to see here folks! No one made the decisions he made. It’s a total mystery according to his pet judge he appointed.

      And soon back in charge, Victoria will be shut down by Andrews, dragging the whole country with it. But he promised we will make billions from his private deal with China. Exactly how is unknown. As he says, Victoria has no natural resources. Unless you count brown coal, gold, farming, gas, forests but he is doing his best to shut all this down. And it is going well. People are fleeing the state as manufacturing and even retailing shuts down.

      So before we worry about what the courts are doing overseas, we should be very scared that this puppet dictator is ready to run Victoria by dictum. And he will blame South Australia and the Federal government for the shutdown and certainly not his friends in high places in China.

      170

      • #
        Kyle

        Too true Tdef. Sickening photo of Merlino today getting his vaccine wearing a Obama Biden t-shirt
        Unfortunately removing Andrews will not change anything !!!

        70

        • #
          Kalm Keith

          🙂
          In a Twitter comment attached to Mr. Merlinos photograph of the injection, one person referred to him as; “StepDan”.

          50

    • #
      Ian

      “It worked because conservatives and those on the rational side of science remained silent.”

      Your view of what you consider to be the “rational side of science” seems now to be a minority view. possibly held mainly by Conservatives.

      The link below may be of interest

      https://www.aljazeera.com/economy/2021/1/27/64-of-people-surveyed-say-climate-change-calls-for-urgent-action

      The largest global survey on climate change ever conducted has found that 64 percent of people believe that it is an “emergency” and must be addressed urgently, but just 10 percent believe world leaders are doing enough. The results were published on January 27 2021.

      A survey of 1.2 million people in 50 countries by the UN found that in every country, younger people felt more strongly that climate change is an emergency than older people, with 69 percent of those under the age of 18 saying so. But about two-thirds of those aged 18 to 59 also recognise it as an emergency, as well as 58 percent of those over the age of 60.

      Of categories of countries surveyed, the highest level of support (74 percent) for urgent climate action came from small island developing states, followed by high-income countries (72 percent), middle-income countries (62 percent), and least developed countries (58 percent).

      Of the people who believe that climate change is an emergency, 59 percent said that the world should do everything possible to respond to the crisis while 20 percent said the world should act slowly. Just 10 percent said world leaders are already doing enough to address climate change.

      The data also reveals a direct link between a person’s level of education and calls for climate action. People with post-secondary education are more likely to say climate change is deserving of immediate action whether they are in low-income countries such as Bhutan (82 percent) and the Democratic Republic of the Congo (82 percent) – or wealthy countries like France (87 percent) and Japan (82 percent).

      016

      • #
        TdeF

        “It worked because conservatives and those on the rational side of science remained silent.”

        We on this site have not stayed silent. And many politicians have not stayed silent. But the press largely tells us Joe Biden’s son is honest, the Wu Flu came from a frozen chicken and melting sea ice will drown everyone.

        There has never been a science debate and moved to ‘Climate Change’ because there is obviously no Global Warming, man made or not. In fac t the planet is rapidly cooling which is also obvious in Europe and the US.

        And a survey of 1.2million in 50 countries is 24,000 people per country, less than 0.02-0.04% of the population, even done fairly. Surveys are a classic way to tell everyone that there is consensus, even on science. Yes Minister used surveys. They are a tool to decieve. But BREXIT, Donald Trump, Scott Morrison show that there is life after surveys and the certainties they claim.

        Conservative is someone who does not automatically believe what they are told. The same is true of a scientist. Sure, children are told there is a ‘Climate Emergency’, white people are racist (and no one else), America was built with and by slaves and Winston Churchill was the worst sort of person, even worse than the monster he beat.

        As for education, that is part of the Long March through the institutions. Most people with university education and teachers are Arts graduates who would not understand science if they fell over it. As for economists and lawyers, most are innumerate and could not read a graph or do their own tax return.

        Yes, it is a global movement, like Black Lives Matter and AntiFA and Communism (presented as socialism) and 3 million people have died from a flu which was created in the Communist Wuhan biological warfare unit and before millions of infected Chinese were sent overseas, which is slowly being admitted as obvious. It is the first step in a biological war and of course, vehemently denied. As Hiteler only wanted the Sudatenland to be mollified. As in 1938, the phoney war has started.

        So after 33 years of nonsense about rapid global man made warming there is no emergency. And the sky is not falling. And Israeli civilians have suffered 3,000 attempts to murder them in just the last month but they are bad people. Do not believe what you read.

        There is no Global Warming. And without that, what Climate Emergency? Where? When? What is it?

        And how is it caused by CO2 and cow farts?

        221

        • #
          Ian

          “Most people with university education and teachers are Arts graduates who would not understand science ”

          Really?

          You are forgetting Pharmacy and Medicine and Engineering and Mathematics and Biology and Chemistry and Physics and Molecular Biology and Genetics and Immunology and Microbiology and Medical Science. There are quite a lot of university students studying and who have studied science subjects who do understand science.

          And as for Conservatives not automatically believing what they are told there are many instances on sites such as this where if a story is presented that favours climate scepticism most commenters accept it without question. You yourself seem to believe Most people with university education and teachers are Arts graduates who would not understand science. That just is not true. Perhaps you can provide some evidence?

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            Kalm Keith

            That’s exactly why Andy gave up the blog.

            Repetitious claims from authority and a disdain for the facts.

            It’s also a perfect example of lack of self awareness.

            That a supposedly highly credentialed academic could constantly throw up junk comments that display ignorance of basic thermodynamics, astronomy and atmospherics is incredible.

            You might get away with that in parliament but not here.

            KK

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            • #

              Ian, and people trained in biology and chemistry are not trained in logic and reason, often fall for feel good physics, and aren’t so gifted at maths. In my molec biol, hons, and science comms degrees from UWA and ANU not once was Argument from Authority or the failures of consensus explained to me.

              Most engineers, physics, maths and computer nerds that I meet are skeptics.

              KK. If you mean AndyG and this blog, sadly he gave up because of a misunderstanding, and wouldn’t reply to my emails. What else could I do? I defended his right to comment for ten years when so many said I should cancel him and that cost me many hours. What was that worth in goodwill? Nothing…

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                peter

                Sadly Jo, people are giving up all over the place. Margaret Thatcher complained in an interview years ago that people she had discussions with on political issues were talking about “feeling this or feeling that …” about a question rather than thinking about the issue. Ideology and emotion has become more important than facts and evidence. People have told me that I’m wrong and that the climate change scare is real because they learnt it in school. Students that I taught in an applied science course at Uni showed zero scientific curiosity about the subject and just wanted to know the right answers to the questions so that they could pass their exams, get their degree and get a good job. They have no interest in “logic and reason” apart from getting qualified and into a well paid job. That’s pretty logical, in a way, I guess.

                ABC radio AM, early this week, had a story interviewing a University Professor who had researched that flies were less fertile above 30oC – and that flies may disappear and this was being made worse by climate change. No science, data or evidence presented – he just said it and the ABC lapped it up. He even went on to suggest the same could happen with humans from climate change. That’s total scientific garbage but the ABC AM presenter never challenged him on that. I just laughed at the time but we should be crying about this rubbish being broadcast as “science” by the ABC and other media.

                People on this blog say they have given up on the ABC and never watch or listen to it anymore. But people should watch the ABC (TV is worse than radio) just to be aware of the baseless BS presented, almost every day, by the ABC as factual truth. It’s getting worse over time. Last week, after a very large iceberg calved off Antarctica, ABC TV News interviewed a lady glaciologist about its connection to climate change. The glaciologist said “no, it was just normal calving…” but the newsreader (not commentator) pestered her about climate change until she admitted that West Antarctica was melting due to the warmer waters around it. That seemed to satisfy the newsreader.

                That case against Shell is the thin edge of the wedge. There is a war being waged against “real science” and we are not winning. It is incumbent upon all thinking people to speak out against this campaign of fear, hysteria and misinformation.

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                Ian

                I’m surprised you were not apprised of the Argument from Authority in your Hons year. However it is very evident in blogs as pieces from supposedly authoritative sources are generally accepted without question. A prime example of course is President Trump’s repeated statements on a variety of topics eg HCQ which were accepted as being gospel.

                I know nothing of the contretemps with Andy but I do know you have always treated me very fairly

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              • #
                Ian

                I am surprised that you were not apprised of argument from authority at UWA and ANU. However it s apparent in many internet sites that instatement made by an authoritative source is often accepted without question

                I know nothing of the Andy situation but I do know you have always treated me very fairly

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          • #
            TdeF

            I do not know where you get your facts. At most 18% of University degrees are STEM. “STEM fields include biological and biomedical sciences, computer and information sciences, engineering and engineering technologies, mathematics and statistics, and physical sciences and science technologies. ”

            That is much higher than I remember, about 10%.

            But I would not include all of these as scientists. Scientific method of critical examination and proof is pointless in many application areas. In many like engineering and medicine you learn and repeat what you are taught, uncritically. Doctors are the worst offenders for believing what they are told, because they do not live in the real world. And most are extreme Greens who get their views from the media. The fact is that few patients try to deceive doctors and they are often mugs with money, because they are too trusting. Pharmacists learn more skepticism because they sell drugs.

            So if you surveyed doctors, you would find 80% get their views from each other and the leftist newspapers who treat man made global Warming as fact. Except it is all wrong.

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            • #

              Correct. Very little STEM is actual science and scientific method really doesn’t get ingrained until applied in independent research.

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              • #
                Ian

                Independent research can occur at primary school where the scientific method can be applied just as rigorously as in post graduate studies.

                Scientific method is: Ask a question. See if anyone else has asked it or something akin to it. Propose an hypothesis. Test it experimentally. See if the experiments is working as expected. Analyse data. Draw conclusions.

                Here’s an example of the scientific method. A toddler finds an apple on the floor. Thinks can I eat this? The toddler knows it can be eaten as mummy and daddy eat them. Toddler picks it up and bites it. Likes it so has another bite. Still likes it so is pleased with the experiment. Drawsthe conclusion apples areOK to eat.

                Children do this all the time and start at very early age. They and are in fact natural scientists.

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              • #

                I don’t think that refutes what I wrote. Was it meant to?

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      • #
        GlenM

        Since we’re going through what is called the upper Idiocene it doesn’t surprise that incessant brainwashing is working on 5he masses – you included. Gullibility and the lack of awareness and the hesitation in questioning leads to these outcomes.

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          Ian

          “Since we’re going through what is called the upper Idiocene it doesn’t surprise that incessant brainwashing is working on 5he masses – you included. ”

          As the climate sceptics also indulge in brainwashing, on a significant scale, it is also iworking on those, including you, who consider everyone but climate sceptics is out of step.

          The evidence is quite plain that the majority, a majority that is steadily increasing, think climate change is happening and want something done about it. The sceptics won’t accept that view but are singularly incapable of convincing anyone, other than those those who are already sceptics and who uncritically accept what they are told, that their view is correct.

          I note you and many others here don’t question very much at all and that includes topics other than climate change. Brainwashing obviously is not confined only to those who consider climate sceptics are misguided.

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            Kalm Keith

            Why do you do this to yourself?
            It’s almost beyond comprehension that someone would enter a serious debate completely unarmed.

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            • #
              Ian

              “It’s almost beyond comprehension that someone would enter a serious debate completely unarmed.”

              When dealing with those such as yourself there is no real need to be armed as your debating abilities are not particularly well honed as is shown by your comment which debates nothing. Do you actually understand what debate means? The evidence suggests you don’t

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              • #
                Kalm Keith

                Do you understand that “debate” means?
                Please enlighten us because there needs to be some guidelines for the mass debate.

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          • #
            TdeF

            Please, as you clearly are not brainwashed. What is the Climate Emergency?

            How does it show itself? When did it start? What makes it an ’emergency’ precisely and how long has it been an ’emergency’?

            For your reference an Emergency is “a serious, unexpected, and often dangerous situation requiring immediate action.”

            So please do not talk about the future. Where is the emergency?

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        robert rosicka

        Ian this is hardly an unbiased survey and in this country the survey at the federal level the voters in majority aren’t voting to ban fossil fuel.

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      • #
        Sceptical Sam

        the “rational side of science” seems now to be a minority view. possibly held mainly by Conservatives.

        That makes it wrong then, Does it?

        Science conducted the green left’s way, is not science at all.

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    Peter Fitzroy

    For Shell (formally Royal Dutch Shell) this is another cost of business. If this means that Shell can not make the profits on oil and gas demanded by the major shareholders (you know the 6% who own 80% of all shares), then Shell will have to diversify. Apple did it.

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    • #
      TdeF

      Shell has diversified. It was originally a British sea shell collecting company run by a father and his son. The son thought they could make some money in oil. They could go back to collecting shells.

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        Klem

        “If this means that Shell can not make the profits on oil and gas demanded by the major shareholders (you know the 6% who own 80% of all shares), then Shell will have to diversify. ”

        No, the major shareholders will sell their equity and invest in Exxon, where they should have put their money in the first place.

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  • #
    Phillip Charles Sweeney

    This will be great news for China Petroleum and PetroChina – the world’s largest petroleum companies.

    China will not be promoting this “Climate Change” nonsense being pushed by a corrupt United Nations to cripple Western economies

    #1 China Petroleum & Chemical Corp. (SNP)
    #2 PetroChina Co. Ltd. (PTR)
    #3 Saudi Arabian Oil Co. (Saudi Aramco) (Tadawul: 2222)
    #4 Royal Dutch Shell PLC (RDS. A)
    #5 BP PLC (BP)
    #6 Exxon Mobil Corp. (XOM)
    #7 Total SE (TOT)
    #8 Chevron Corp. (CVX)

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    • #
      Bruce

      I suppose it never occurred to anyone that SNP and PTR,(WHOLLY owned by the CCP), might just be involved in a global political game aimed at white-anting competitive companies and their “governments”.

      Chinese CCP-owned mining companies have just about stitched up the entire global sources and stocks of Rare Earths and several other strategic minerals, so ……

      Then, there are the ports (including some in Australia) and entire vertically-integrated food production and supply chains, again, a couple of major ones here in Oz.

      All must pay tribute to the “emperor”.

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      • #
        el gordo

        … and don’t forget Bitcoin mining.

        ‘Some 75% of the world’s bitcoin mining is done in China, where there is cheap electricity and relatively easy access to manufacturers who make specialized hardware, according to the study.

        ‘Unlike most forms of currency — issued by a single entity like a central bank — bitcoin is based on a decentralized network and needs to be “mined.” (CNBC)

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      • #
        Sceptical Sam

        Chinese CCP-owned mining companies have just about stitched up the entire global sources and stocks of Rare Earths and several other strategic minerals, so ……

        Yes. Correct.

        And, the recent deposing of Aung San Suu Kyi’s government in Myanmar (Burma) is part of the CCP’s strategy to keep it that way. The Tatmadaw has its hands in many if not most of the businesses in Myanmar and is under suzerainity of the CCP.

        When Aung San Suu Kyi’s government closed the border to Chinese miners of Myanmar’s Rare Earth a couple of years ago, the CCP acted. Aung San Suu Kyi now no longer has a government. Nor does Myanmar. It now has a military dictatorship courtesy of the CCP’s determination to control the mining and production of Rare Earths. The Tatmadaw is looking after its own financial and business interests which are very closely linked to the CCP.

        Another example:

        Australia’s Lynas Corporation (an Australian Rare Earths miner) had great difficulty in getting its processing plant approved for operation in Malaysia not so long ago. Malaysia has placed a moratorium on the Lynas plant requiring it to be shut down by 2023.

        The Communist’s play the long game. Many here will not recall the history of Communist insurgency in the old Malaya, and the British, Australian, New Zealand, Fiji and Kenyan commitment to defeat it in the years following the Second World War. (A wonderfully pro-Communist analysis is available for all to read on Wikipedia). The Communists still exist in Malaysia – mainly operating through the environmental movement – and are informed and controlled by the CCP. Lynas’ problem with its processing plant are a direct result of the CCP’s influence (if not funding and hence control) of the environmental movement in Malaysia.

        The Communists play a long game. But I repeat myself!

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    • #
      James Murphy

      BP has gone mad with excitement about getting out of Oil and Gas.
      Total has renamed itself to Total Energies partly because they are having trouble enticing quality engineers to work for them, and also to get away from the association with oil and gas.
      In Norway, Statoil renamed itself as Equinor a few years ago for the same reasons.
      In Australia, Beach Energy (formerly Beach Petroleum) did the same thing. Buru Energy is pushing hard to find and exploit naturally occurring Hydrogen. Their latest drilling campaign (targeting oil and gas, but assessing/looking for Hydrogen) is about to start near Broome, so good luck with getting any of that hydrogen moved anywhere useful.

      I wonder how much of all this is related to the easy money they can get via government subsidies. Few competent businesses would shy away from what amounts to free money with virtually no strings attached.

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      • #
        Flok

        BP solar from the 80’s was sold to Indian company Tata in 2011.

        BP ran adds saying their fuel cleans engines. Now those adds are done by Shell.

        Circle of life showing to be doing something much like the governments while the economy is running a business model of telco companies with increments of cents in taxes.

        7% of power bills we pay in Australia goes to pay for solar as environment impact.

        Yeah, easy money aplenty.

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      John Culhane

      Chinese companies will be the main buyers of Western Oil shares and will control this as current shareholders exit.

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        Sceptical Sam

        That’s definitely one to keep an eye on, JC.

        The Chinese Communist Party (CCP) with its control over 1.4 Million ++ people, provides a captive market for hydrocarbons – the most efficient energy source next to nuclear. It’s in its interest to ensure oil, gas and coal become stranded assets in the West. And, it’s in its interest to snap those assets up at knock-down prices. It has the market. It wants the supply.

        It’s the same strategy that they’re applying to the Rare Earths supply.

        It’s also in its interest to continue the brainwashing of people in the West to believe that the CO2 molecules controls the weather and the climate. Not only that, but that wind and solar are the energy sources of the future.

        Is there nobody in the West awake to what the CCP is doing? Where’s the GCHQ and MI5. Where’s the CIA? Where’s the NSC?

        Perhaps they might like to give me a call for a confidential briefing?

        They’d have my number. I’m sure of that.

        Do we have no journalists who are capable of doing the exposé?

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        • #
          Richard Ilfeld

          It is not clear that these will become stranded assets.
          Much of the oil and gas industry was built by independents (wildcats)
          and there are still vast amount of product collected from tiny wells and accumulated up
          the food chain into refineries. A business operating unit considerably smaller than
          a multinational can operate effectively in the business.

          In the early days of the airlines, when all flight was heavily regulated federally,
          a small upstart operating withing the borders of a single state arose and offered in-state
          service and low fares. The result of the federal challenge, which provided much visibility,
          was deregulation of the entire business rather than squishing what became Southwest Airlines.

          some subset of Texas, Lousiana, Kansas, Oklahoma, Indiana, Illinois, Ohio, Pennsylvania, New Mexico, Colorado, California,
          and several other can conduct energy operations for fossil fuels for all uses totally intrastate;
          a governor faced with an energy starved population is likely to enable these operations.
          Other states, like Florida, can make closed-end barter deals (thus not “public” interstate commerce)
          to get energy, or perhaps run operations through the native American reservations, which have some sovereignty
          in a legal sense.

          The businesses actually doing these operations would easily hit sufficient size to operate efficiently from a techncal and cost standpoint.

          The point would be to get over the being boiled like frogs by degree after degree of rising temperature of corporate and government
          stupidity, and force the feds to come in to a state and turn off the power and say why.

          Or allow states rights, and explain why Texas has Power, and Michigan is dark and cold.

          In short: these giant companies are a layer of finance and political bullshit: but the board isn’t the business.
          They were formed absorbing and aglomerating hundreds of smaller operations and they can vomit them back into the commerce stream
          if circumstances warrant.

          It probably only takes one switch to turn off the lights and turn off the heat at the court to help them understand their
          decision.

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    • #
      RickWill

      China do not have any climate change issues. Their FGOALS model is the coolest of them all. It runs 2C cooler the the EU model. So when EU is frying, China will still be cozy. The model world is a fascinating place where climate modellers can create any world they choose. China’s modellers were encouraged, at the risk of losing their job, to keep their model cool. EU have always been wanting to make things hotter so their modellers have managed that.

      Never let reality get in the way because that is jus someone’s idea anyhow. It is easy to change the history.

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  • #
    Neville

    Here Shellenberger has opened up on the liars, con merchants and L W extremists and goes after the Peter Glieck fool and has the documented recent history to support his claims.

    https://wattsupwiththat.com/2021/05/26/michael-shellenberger-evicerates-peter-gleick/

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    • #
      David Wojick

      Regarding this: “Peter Gleick is an admitted fraud. He lied to obtain documents & appears to have forged one of them, something he denies.”

      I can confirm the forgery first hand. The documents were my proposal to Heartland to develop high school materials that taught about the scientific debate over climate change. Gleick forged an internal Heartland memo saying our goal was to “confuse” the students. Shame on him!

      30

  • #
    Lance

    Peter Gleick deserved every word that Schellenberger said.

    They aren’t insults, if they be true.

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  • #
    OriginalSteve

    This is a religious war.

    The earth appears to be in the grip of the same madness that birthed the 3rd Reich.

    We now have an open war between normal humanity, and the sick minds of the Satanic pagan globalists, who are attempting to smash humanity like a square peg into thier pentagram shaped hole….

    Whether it be “climate change” or co”covid”, the effect is creating a twisted, sick and deranged “new normal”….that isnt normal ….

    This is a fight we cant afford to lose.

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    Graham Richards

    A simple & final way to shut this whole thing down is for Shell to hit the “OFF” button. Close all their EU refineries & quarantine all storage facilities.
    I’m sure the EU & all citizens will be greatly relieved & happy that oil is finally gone.
    The EU masters no doubt have a master plan with their toys at hand to keep the EU happy & prosperous. The UN of course will blame the EU for mishandling the issue & recommend the WHO act immediately to take over.
    It’ll take +- 12 hours to bring the whole continent to its senses & agree to never again mention global warming or anything climate related.

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    Simon

    Pension funds have enormous clout in the financial investment community. These investors are very long-term focused, they are concerned about returns in 20+ years time.
    The other big player is insurance funds don’t want to be paying out massive future claims.
    Climate change has a massive long tail risk and these investors are pressuring senior corporate management big time to reduce that risk. What you see in the media is only when investors have to use legal means to enact change. There is much more going on behind the scenes that the public is unaware of. Large corporates will make the large structural changes necessary for the economy to survive even if the Government does nothing.

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    • #
      el gordo

      ‘Climate change has a massive long tail risk …’

      AGW is flawed and global cooling has begun, but the activists will continue to operate.

      https://wattsupwiththat.com/2021/05/27/both-sides-declare-victory-in-aussie-childrens-climate-litigation-coal-case/

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    • #
      Travis T. Jones

      You might/might not find this interesting.

      Australians Need To Wake The F… Up! – youtube video by “In the interest of the People” ( two economic boffins having a chat, have a loyal follow)

      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IBJ1EQmjHM8

      For full context, start at 17.35: “Nationalisation or confiscation, some historical examples …

      22.00: “if King Charles can flog (steal) 130,000 pounds, who is to say the pm of Australia just can’t go and steal peoples money (old english law – see context), and the 1st most obvious place to steal is super annuation.”

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      • #
        OriginalSteve

        Yes I was worried about that – the next war could deliberately drain pension funds, with the govt giving IOUs in place of gold, and of course its like the US govt confiscating peoples’ gold in the 1930s, the money of course will never be returned….

        Good way to hold people captive to the govt, too….

        20

    • #
      Kalm Keith

      Yes.

      “Climate change has a massive, “Virtual”, long tail risk and these investors “.

      In truth there’s No, Nil, Zero Human influence on atmospheric temperature via CO2 emissions and it’s time that the courts delved into this ongoing fabricated cash cow for the already wealthy.

      It’s an absolutely “science free” insertion.

      I could say that big business leaders are gutless wonders, but considering the CCC in operation, they’re probably justified in asking why they should offer up as the sacrificial lamb.

      What a world.

      KK

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    • #
      Analitik

      These investors are very long-term focused

      It doesn’t mean that they are well informed. The pension (super here) funds rely on “experts” like Ross Garnaut to advise them what these “tail risks” are so they are easily swayed if the appropriate “experts” are subverted

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    • #
      el gordo

      ‘Large corporates will make the large structural changes …’

      To the detriment of most shareholders. Its the free market leading the charge and in the not too distant future these organisations will have to explain where it all went so wrong.

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    • #
      Simon

      You’re all assuming that you know better than the managers, analysts, and actuaries of multi-billion dollar investment funds. These people are very well compensated. If you’re so certain that you’re correct, why not set up a contrarian investment fund, raise some cash, and try to beat the market?

      28

      • #
        Kalm Keith

        Now that’s more like the Simon we know.

        I was getting worried that you had seen the light a few days ago, but no, back on track to nowhere.
        🙂

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      • #
        el gordo

        Simon the investment funds are being cajoled by the green wave, CO2 does not cause global warming. Buy coal futures.

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        • #
          • #
            el gordo

            I have no investments of any kind, a sort of honest broker in energy matters.

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            • #

              In that case I’ll do whatever you say.

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              • #
                el gordo

                That would be advisable.

                Public opinion can quickly turn around when it becomes clear that CO2 doesn’t cause global warming. This new pause in temperatures will go unnoticed, but at some point the penny will drop.

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              • #
                el gordo

                The reality is that Beijing thumbs its nose and gives a finger to climate change.

                ‘In 2020, China built over three times as much new coal power capacity as all other countries in the world combined – with no signs of letting up in years to come.’ (Notrickszone)

                20

      • #
        Richard Ilfeld

        The “expert” running the money is probably far more worried about his 12 year old getting into the right school and will do or say what is necessary to make that happen then spin a lie to the faceless shareholders; that’s how wall street works and often fails.

        10

    • #
      Simon

      If you are genuinely interested, the pension funds are pushing companies to adopt the Task Force on Climate-related Financial Disclosures standard for reporting. https://www.fsb-tcfd.org/ This requires companies to consider the impact of climate change on their future projected cashflows.

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      • #
        Kalm Keith

        Wonder why.

        Let’s see; the unions control a lot of super money.
        The unions have “friends” in high places who just happen to have personal “interests” in renewables projects.

        Would onion super, throw contributors money into a Ponzi scheme that might crash before the donors retire?

        Yes, almost certainly. Pleasing friends is more important that being an ethical minder of that money.

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    • #
      Kevin kilty

      You are a delusional fellow. The Soviets were always worried about profits 20 years out. They had 20 year plans after all. All they ever did was put valuable resources into products no one wanted to buy. Despite the long focus they did poorly. These activist pension funds will do poorly for their pensioners.

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  • #
    roman

    I didn’t know how much I loved big oil until it became increasinly clear that it might go, along with nice things like not living in the stone age.

    A court making orders regarding ‘duty of care’ towards future people is the nanny state on ‘roids. A progressive’s wet dream. Who needs government or elected representatives (aka democracy) or legislation now? Just scream that someone will (maybe) have a bad day at some point in the future and have a court ‘sort it out’ today! Yeay!

    So can I sue the gov for failing in its duty of care to maintain a reasonable cost of living by allowing so many migrants in that it drives up house prices? Asking for a friend. What about the cost and unsafety of migrant crime??? These are actually demonstrable unlike the ‘environmental impacts’ that have since been proven false. (That dingy that I was told two decades ago I’d absolutely need to get around on “when the waters rise” is still packed away.)

    If the ‘duty of care’ argument is set as a precedent, and it seems to be going that way, then let’s go. I have some issues to raise.

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  • #
    David Maddison

    Closer to home, look at supposed motorist’s rights organisations like the RACV and NRMA etc.. They are extremely woke, and promote public transport, electric cars and generally contribute to the overall war against the motorist and the internal combustion engine.

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  • #
    Travis T. Jones

    It’s not science if you can’t question it …

    Top Climate Scientist Blasts Government Lab After Denier Invited to Speak

    Ben Santer: “I chose to remain loyal to the climate science we have performed at LLNL for over three decades.
    I do not intend to remain silent while the credibility and integrity of this research is challenged.”

    https://gizmodo.com/top-climate-scientist-blasts-government-lab-after-denie-1846956716

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    • #
      David Maddison

      It never ceases to amaze me how Leftists talk about “settled science”. Science is never settled, that’s not how the scientific method works. “Settled science” is an oxymoron. Even scientific laws are not fully settled. E.g. Newton laws were subject to modification by Einstein.

      As for calling someone a “climate change denier”, that is nothing more than a typical ad hominem attack you expect from ignorant Leftists (sorry for the tautology).

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  • #
    Don B

    Winston Churchill said that appeasement is like feeding a crocodile, hoping it will eat you last.

    The crocodiles are coming for the oil industry. The head of United Airlines is playing the appeasement game, claiming they will be at zero emissions soon, using stupid accounting tricks.

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  • #
    Peter Fitzroy

    And in Australia, the courts have sided with schoolchildren over the same issue. Poor Susan Ley

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  • #
    Analitik

    Meanwhile back in reality

    Poland opposes EU Court’s decision to shut coal mine

    Polish power utility, PGE Polska Grupa Energetyczna, has issued a statement that it cannot agree to closing the Turów lignite mine, as it supplies electricity to 3.7 million of Polish households, 7% of Polish demand.

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    • #
      roman

      When I was a kid in Poland, our grandparents had a basement with two big piles; one of potatoes, the other of coal. Getting cold or hungry is something the Poles are kind of ‘done’ with. That and taking orders from foreigners!

      10

  • #
    Peter Fitzroy

    I know that, but one of my older email accounts was hacked, hence this one, which I just created. Mind you I like the avatar

    00

  • #
    Peter

    If Shell is responsible for amongst others “fuels eventually burned by consumers” and can get fined if they do not lower their emission, can Shell also sue consumers for not reducing their CO2 emissions?

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  • #
    PeterD

    I wonder how many of the people who are cheering for this decision have made or are making an effort to reduce their own dependency on oil and its products. Not just the car fuel that Shell provides, but also all the plastics that come from fossil fuels and natural gas (main source for heating homes and cooking in the Netherlands).

    20

  • #
    David Maddison

    The fact that fossil fuel companies are prepared to give up their cheap energy (coal, gas, oil) and replace it with the world’s most expensive and unreliable sources of weather-dependent energy (solar and wind) goes to show you the staggering amounts of money to be made from the anthropogenic global warming fraud.

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  • #
    Old Goat

    For investors its way easier to pick losers than winners because of the current cognitive dissonance in board members. The world is being flooded with money by governments spending (printing) money and ignoring the word “deficit”. Migration is being ramped up by handouts and incentives in western countries and no controls . Throw in BLM , antifa and PC culture and you have the perfect storm . The result will be hyperinflation and civil unrest on a massive scale and historically this usually leads tototaliarian governments . “Those who do not learn from history are condemned to repeat it”.

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    • #
      David Maddison

      Even supposed “conservative” governments around the world are spending money totally without restraint.

      It won’t end well.

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    MCMXLIII

    There is no viable substitute for an oil company’s product currently so an artificial scarcity could well boost profits.

    40

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    Analitik

    Some real pushback is taking place.
    From ZeroHeadge/Epoch Times, the State Treasurers: West Virginia, Alabama, Arizona, Arkansas, Idaho, Kentucky, Mississippi, Missouri, Nebraska, North Dakota, Ohio, Oklahoma, Pennsylvania, South Carolina and South Dakota have all signed off on a letter to John Kerry (Lurch) stating that they oppose the pressure being put on banks by the Federal Government for them to refuse to lend to or invest in coal, oil, and natural gas companies.

    https://www.wvtreasury.com/Portals/wvtreasury/content/Press%20Releases/State%20Treasurers%20Letter%20to%20John%20Kerry%20on%20Fossil%20Fuel%20Lending%20w-%20signatures.pdf

    It is simply antithetical to our nation’s position as a democracy and a capitalist economy for the Executive Branch to bully corporations into curtailing legal activities.

    It will be interesting to see what action these states take against “woke” banks.
    If only the ANZ had some governing body standing up to them.

    80

  • #
    Lance

    Perhaps it would be prudent to sue the Court based upon the litany of failed predictions the Greens have historically claimed and demand that the Dutch Court post a Bond of 10 Trillion USD on the case that their claims will be proven inaccurate by historical evidence at a future date.

    The Dutch court is claiming that Models guide their decision. But the Models have yet to be correct. The court is prognosticating about future events and assessing penalties before an event has occurred.

    The Court ought to bear responsibility in the case they are mistaken.

    Otherwise, tell the Court they are idiots and unworthy of fealty to any ludicrous decision that might emanate from their unproven beliefs. Didn’t the World move away from Witchcraft Trials and Superstition?

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  • #
    Rupert Ashford

    Big Oil played a sinister game of covertly supporting the pile-on against Big Coal thinking they will be able to push coal out of electricity generation and then people will be forced to switch to gas. Now the chickens are coming home to roost and we will all pay for the idiocy.

    80

  • #
    Analitik

    But “the science is settled”!
    C’mon, man!

    40

  • #

    I have read that this case will be challenged. Any lawyer worth their salt would ask the judge to find any proof that Shell has been responsible for global warming and any evidence the claimants have that unequivocally supports this.

    70

    • #
      Serp

      I’d expect lots more cases to be heard in this jurisdiction which is able to rule on harm which occurred in the future; clever Dutch.

      40

      • #
        Ted O'Brien.

        You can no longer count on courts to find the truth, or even the law.

        Australian courts set themselves above the constitution on the state border issue last year.

        00

  • #
    Ronin

    Let’s hope Shell have the cojones and the dollars to take this BS up the line a bit.

    60

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    yarpos

    Start reducing overall output steeply meet the 45% goal , see how the public reacts to increased prices for almost everything and reduced availability, not to mention reduced tax flows and inceased unemployment.

    21

  • #
    TdeF

    In passing Robert Gottliebsen in the Australian this week said companies were trying to reduce the carbon in making steel and concrete.

    One of the great farces is the idea that you can get rid of the sixth element of the periodic table. Greenpeace once banned chlorine.

    Now how would we get on without metals and concrete? Both are chemical reactions which generate CO2. You cannot change stoichiometry! All metals are oxides, except gold and so to get rid of the oxide, we combine it with carbon. In producing iron, lead, aluminum, copper,… you must create CO2 in fixed proportions. And concrete involves the removal of CO2 from limestone but not fossil fuel, fossil skeletons. The great recycling of carbon, like every human being and plant. Our human output is trivial.

    But every charlatan and climatebagger on the planet is now talking about changing the laws of chemistry to make ‘Green’ Steel and carbon ‘neutrality’.

    In fact most steel in the West is recycled anyway, 85% of it in electric furnaces where old steel is melted. And most of the world’s CO2 from making new metals is now coming from China. Sanjeev Gupta who has spent $6Billion of other people’s savings buying steel and aluminum producers is still selling this story. Except he does not want to repay the $6Billion borrowed improperly from Superannuation funds in Switzerland.

    There is now no end of people who say you can replace carbon with hydrogen, except that this is fool’s gold, fantasy. But politicians are fools with science and there is a lot of money to be made, the new windmills. Hydrogen shares. Goes with Bitcoin.

    It is also amazing that you can still mine rare earths, but only in China. You can make new steel and new aluminum, but only in China. You can manufacture, but only in China and you can farm, but only in China. And China is buying everyone’s coal and iron ore and cotton and wool, especially from Australia.

    Who cares if they drown in our CO2? It’s the ultimate nutty selfish NIMBY view. Why pollute your own country? Send all your waste to China, even all your garbage, your CO2 and live like the Eloi of the Time Machine. That does not end well.

    100

    • #
      MP

      ” All metals are oxides,” umm what are Sulphides?

      20

      • #
        TdeF

        Oxides are the common minerals used in smelting, for good reason.

        Firstly, quantity. Consider as the relative size of oxygen is 10,400 to sulphur at 440, there are going to be roughly 20x as many oxides as sulphides.

        Then unless you really want the sulphur, the removal leaves universally dangerous sulphur compounds, like H2S, H2SO4 and other nasties. Hydrogen sulphide which transforms into sulphuric acid in your lungs, for example. Acid rain.

        Unless there is some belief that Carbon Dioxide is dangerous, there is no harm at all in reducing oxides and a major problem in disposing of compounds of sulphur. This smelting changed human lives. The ages of man have been roughly the stone age, copper, bronze, iron and more recently steel and aluminum. We could always go back to the stone age with shutting down smelting.

        40

        • #
          MP

          I know a bit about metallurgy, Hydro, Pyro not so much.
          All metals start off as sulphides, FeS, ZnS, CuS, time + H2O has oxidised the near surface minerals, lose the S and gain an O.
          The method for recovery of sulphides is floatation, you can’t float oxides, but you can convert them back to sulphides (NaSH) which is done in some processes. (nasty stuff)
          The off gases from smelting sulphides is SO2 (one of), which is converted to H2SO4 (SO2+H2O+O)’ most of the worlds sulphuric acid comes from this process by scrubbing the off gases.
          Oxides require the O to be driven off (FeO), so coal is used to drive that but also to put carbon in to get carbon steel, some irons are carbonaceous and require little to no carbon inputs.
          FeS2 is Iron Pyrite.
          Hydrogen Sulphide (H2S) is well known in the industry, we have lost many good men to this gas, H2S (rotten egg gas) is generally created in the hydro side of metallurgy (for the H) and occurs from Oxygen deficient environments and sulphates (sulphides convert to sulphates as ferrous to ferric for iron) processes that use Nitrogen instead of air for floatation (molybdenum) are prone to H2S formation, Moly oxidises rapidly with air and won’t float . Sulphur is not an issue except in Mine waste (acid mine drainage) and tailings, but there are many methods to deal with this issue.
          The world is getting low on most oxides except iron and the sulphide ore bodies are deep and complex and require more complex mining and metallurgical methods, more expensive.

          I am not hitting the books for this, so it is off the top of my brain dead head.

          00

  • #
    Ronin

    I see Ampol and Origin in OZ are jumping on the H2 bandwagon, fools.

    30

  • #
    John R Smith

    We live in pretend world now.
    We even have pretend words.
    That require a pretend dictionary.
    That can be altered at will, thanks to computer tech.
    No need to ban books, they become obsolete.

    Pretend words …
    Anthropogenic
    (curious that in my experience most normies that believe in ACC don’t know this word… well known to Deniers though)
    Transgender (physically impossible)
    Renewable (energy is a transformation not a creation)
    Equity (the pretense is that it has shifted from money to whatever the heck it’s supposed to refer to now)
    Sustainable (existence has been sustaining for 14.7 billion years if you believe the immutable truth called ‘Science’ … the Universe is inherently ‘sustainable’)
    Variant (LOL they have great difficulty isolating Vs much less determining if they’ve ‘varied’)

    Just to name a few.
    Let the courts become the New Church.

    40

  • #
    Doc

    Shut all fossil fuel production down immediately, or force closure by investors selling out. Have no fossil fuels available, forcing ‘cheap’ renewable energy sources to provide for all demands. Then, when the penny falls, demand all activists and politicians to show the proof that CO2 controls the world’s climate before restarting fossil fuels generation at all. This is end game play by all activists, be they politician, judiciary or scientist. There is no way back now to playing out the destruction of the West. It’s a fight to the death to enforce the rights of people of the west, using open societies, western values, and western science for the peoples of the west to be able to lead the rest of the world into a better and much fairer existence than exists in nations that set to benefit most from this lunacy and which are totally unable to compete with the west for standards of living, justice, care for the poor, and advances from real, reproducible science that depends on the scientific method. Our societies have so far thrived without the threat of military enforcement nor political misuse of the legal system to force their own evil ideas on their citizens. Western nations aren’t drawcards for the rest of the non western peoples for no reason. Just how dumb, green, uneducated or divided from our citizenry are the people we elect to govern us. We seem to be over-run by politicians that consider their own personal disabilities can be remedied by the odd way they see the world and sending the rest of their citizens into some form of marxist strait jacket with them being the locks.

    I don’t get it , as a senior cit. Just where do even those governing us seem to see semimarxism as a better way of life for the nation. Are they all entirely there hungry for the power to rule and to use the law as a means to shut us up? In the USA it’s even getting around to using the military – with prior clean out of conservatives in the ranks – to enforce the whims of the federal government. This is the real fight those big companies better be willing to take on. Stop the product and force some rational explanation from governments ready to destroy us and the West.

    50

  • #
    Kevin kilty

    This fixation on hydrogen is unlikely to go far in the short term. As Herb Stein, the economist, once said, “Things go on until they can’t”. The “hydrogen economy” reached can’t already. I am stunned to learn that some exploration companies are exploring for natural sources of hydrogen — well the mineral exploration ventures have bilked investors for centuries (ref. Europeans fleeced in North America), and this just looks like time honored tradition.

    Way back in the last great energy crisis, when people proposed equally stupid energy production ideas, in fact the exact same ideas, Exxon went to Western Colorado to work on producing oil from shale. They abandoned the idea when oil prices went down and stayed down in the late 1980s. The activisits who harrassed Exxon out in places like Debuque, Colorado, were now angry that Exxon left ending all the local employment for environmentalists/consultants.

    Two activist board members might make trouble, but I doubt it. I’ll keep my XOM for now.

    30

  • #
    David Wojick

    Shell had already announced a 40% cut so the Court’s 45% is just guilding the orchid. Exxon has a big Board so two green twits are not a big deal.

    20

    • #
      David Wojick

      What is extra funny about the Exxon move is that it is predicated on the wildly false belief that AGW skepticism only exists because Big Oil is funding it. They stopped almost 20 years ago.

      10

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    el gordo

    ‘It is scary but prudent, said Daniel Gocher, director of climate and environment at the Australasian Centre for Corporate Responsibility.

    “It will assist APRA and the banks, insurers and super funds it regulates to better understand the possible impacts from runaway climate change. As the last 18 months have demonstrated, Australia is acutely exposed to bushfires, floods and storms,” he said.

    “Understanding how the increased frequency and severity of severe heat, heavy rainfall and natural disasters will impact the largest and most exposed ASX-listed companies is incredibly important information.” (ABC)

    20