Mass gatherings linked to mass outbreaks. Who could have seen that coming?
But many details are missing or unknown. They’re not saying that the protest caused the megacluster, or whether the protestors live in the towers, or whether the virus spread from the family outbreak to the tower or the other way.
We do know that four weeks after the BLM rally the state was in deep trouble.
Coronavirus: Black Lives Matter protest linked to tower cluster
Rachel Baxendale, The Australian
Victorian health authorities have confirmed a link between two COVID-19 cases in people who attended the Black Lives Matter protest in Melbourne’s CBD just over a month ago, and the cluster of at least 242 cases in public housing towers in the city’s inner northwest.
But the Department of Health and Human Services has refused to say whether members of the cluster, which includes the protest attendees, live in the public housing towers.
One H&M worker was at the rally and later tested positive and that three other H&M workers eventually tested positive. The H&M cluster become “North Melbourne family cluster” which grew to 30 cases. Three weeks after the rally the North Melbourne Tower was confirmed as a major hotspot, and has so far accrued 242 cases.
I predicted that if the rally caused an outbreak it could take a month to show. Young protestors had to go home, get sick, spread it to their families, and then other generations would be noticed in hospital cases.
The Victorian cluster slows (again)
Lockdowns work. Cases were doubling every four days or so last week. If the exponential growth had not slowed, case numbers might now be increasing by 500 a day. If only Daniel Andrews, and most of academia and the media had been brave enough to point out the reckless selfishness of protestors seeking personal glory. Victoria was the only state in Australia that didn’t push back at the rally organizers. The law was not enforced. The Government cowered in fear at the threat of being called racists. No one in power or the Love-media wants to blame the rally, because that shows they should have spoken against the rally. Thus cowardice become complicity.
In the BLM political party, hardly any lives matter
Coronavirus cluster plateaus. Lockdowns work, Victoria Australia.
In future, those wishing to organize mass face-to-face protests during pandemics need to wait for weeks until it’s not illegal, or buy insurance that covers the costs of post-protest lockdowns, hospital care, loss of businesses, jobs and compensation for deaths. What company would cover those billion dollar losses?
The BLM rally was not the sole cause of the Victorian outbreak, but how many subsequent breaches of social distancing were “linked” to the hypocrisy of soft support for the BLM rally?
Just shut those borders. The pain in NSW could have been so easily avoided
NSW was nearly free of the virus. All the community spread now is linked to one Melbourne man who infected a workplace in Sydney which spread to the Crossways Hotel (according to Greg Hunt). If NSW had closed its borders like most states of Australia, there’d be no clusters at pubs, no bans on Sydney travellers, no mass queuing for tests, people could visit aged care centres and NSW travellers would be welcome everywhere.
Yet again, politicians and health advisors are three weeks behind a virus that has no brain.
The cheap way to live with the virus is not to live with it.
Andrews is vying for Julia Gillard’s title of most loathed Labor leader ever.
261
There was a report on Facebook this morning showing the link from the BLM to a shopping centre then to the towers showing the progressive totals but will have to find it .
Lost the original but was on Mark Lathams outsiders Facebook page .
100
Why am I not surprised?
70
I know BLM marches contributed to the spread of the infection but it was not the major source for recent outbreaks in Victoria.
There is a certain religious group with considerable experience in dealing with security and many amongst this group are attracted to roles as security guards. The poor health training of security guards responsible for hotel security in Victoria combined with a certain religious celebration as restrictions on family gatherings were eased were the main contributing factors to the spread in Victoria.
The single location in Victoria with the highest number of infected people – Al-Taqwa college with a cluster of 150.
Certain families in the social housing were aghast to find pork in their care packages. And a great demonstration a democracy at work:
https://www.msn.com/en-au/news/australia/bill-shorten-teams-up-with-local-butcher-to-deliver-halal-packages-to-residents-locked-in-public-housing-towers-as-residents-complain-they-havent-received-enough-food/ar-BB16obsu
Always be mindful where the power resides.
I have a relative and other acquaintances who attended family gatherings at the end of March well in excess of 20 people. The man made restrictions on gatherings are subservient to those of the higher power.
213
Do you mean a security guard needs special training to know not to sleep with the potentially infectious person he is guarding?
260
What you all have to realise, is that the virtue-seeking inherent in attending a BLM protest/riot…
… FAR exceeds any problems that could arise from Covid-19 !!
241
Andy, misfire, too eager.
See green.
80
Or…virtue whoring?
20
Far too many confuse the BLM slogan with their agenda. It’s not about saving black lives, but sacrificing them for the cause of anarchy.
40
Queensland is rushing legislation through the parliament to include 6 Month jail terms for breaking some of their rules, which also include $4000+ fines.
Then in the same breath, and also here in Queensland, we see the usual crowds protesting outside the Hotel where they are keeping the immigrants, no social distancing and police seemingly looking the other way. It seems to me that the Police here are in no way to blame for any of this as they are enforcing very strictly the rules at the border, and yet at the hotel, all seems okay. I wonder if it’s one rule for some, and another rule for others.
And they wonder why people ask questions.
And please, don’t even think of mentioning Dannii Minogue.
Could you even begin to imagine the media ruckus if she had NOT been afforded special favours.
Tony.
240
Yep, we are listening to the best medical advice.
God help us.
51
Your not alone in this forced imposing of new laws with heavy fines on both businesses and individuals in Canada. And then the mayors are screaming of huge debt cost as they destroy businesses and not attract anyone who wants to do business due to the rules can change at any moment and force to close your business.
People in the cities want to flee as the mayors are telling everyone that they need funding or your property taxes will rise 60%. As one city is paying 17 hotels for homeless and immigrants.
30
Believe it or not kiddies but, years ago the police used to enforce the law. No really. All those cops were weeded out of course.
61
Johnny Depp should have called Boo and Pistols, Dannii and Minogue.
They would have been home free and well into their second tin of Pal.
40
Well it’s not about covid, but it does cover BLM.
https://www.flickr.com/photos/149157242@N05/50113566916/in/dateposted-public/
I hope I’m not being too harsh.
70
Nice image.. I think I can count 3, only, of a darker skin..
The rest are SJW, virtue seeking, low-life wannabees. !
80
I was in the Canadian Military back in 1981-1985 and we did not have a single person who was of colour.
We did a battery exchange in Oklahoma for a month and on one of our exercises, due to the heavy dust, we passed another personnel carrier where our skin was dark from the dust and that carrier we passed, their skin was white from the dust. It was hilarious at the time.
20
Nice touch that and oh so true,our enlightened helpers and intellectual superiors are always 3 weeks behind this virus which has no brain.
Sadly the Public Health Response has been so idiotic,haphazard and contradictory that I think the Virus may be smarter than your average overpaid civil servant.
Way smarter.
And probably better looking too.
Up here in Can Ahh Duh,we are having masks imposed upon us,by the very same people who insisted “Masks do not work”.
And across North America,there is no correlation between the BLM (Burn Loot Murder) riots and contageon,because public health officials do not ask.And have been told not to ask when”Tracing the spread”.
Meanwhile the airways are full of doom,the virus is everywhere,more people testing positive than ever…
As finally wide scale testing is being performed,with way too many false positives..
The fear mongering is priceless,orchestrated via identical talking points and completely idiotic..
If any taxpayer still trusts government after this fiasco,then public education really has worked.
231
John,
Possible concrete proof that Victorian & Canadian lockdowns are not needed:
Italian doctor says current virus is now a bit lame :
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-health-coronavirus-italy-virus-idUSKBN2370OQ
And it seems the italian virus is dominant around the world, here – Cell article seems to indicate that what we have here is also the tame version:
https://thehill.com/policy/healthcare/public-global-health/505762-scientists-say-strain-of-coronavirus-dominant-around
https://www.cell.com/cell/fulltext/S0092-8674(20)30820-5
You need to see PDF version ( link on the page up the top ) – has all the info toward last pages – detailed graphics etc showing clearly the less nasty variant now dominant in Australia.
This info needs to be spread far and wide – it may invalidate all the hysteria and lockdowns in swoop.
“A strain of the coronavirus that was first seen in Italy is now the dominant strain of the virus, a group of scientists said Thursday.
“In an article published by the peer-reviewed science journal Cell, researchers working with the Sheffield COVID-19 Genomics Group announced that the new strain “has become the most prevalent form in the global pandemic.”
“The strain is different than what appeared in Wuhan, China, the city where the coronavirus is believed to have originated.
“According to the science journal, tracking of the virus frequency revealed a prevalence of the dominant strain, labeled G614, that took over the prevalence of D614, the original strain.
Ergo, assuming we have the same tame variant here, we should be opening up, not playing “destroy the economy by lockdowns”.
I suspect the authorities would already know this, which makes you wonder……
93
The Lawyers in Canada say that layoffs and lockdown are illegal in Canadian Labour Laws and are entitled to full severance.
https://www.severancepaycalculator.com
11
My golly gosh, Canada has wise wizards as well !
🙁
12
[Duplicate]
00
A Mr Menchen once quiped. It is the task of government to keep the population alarmed with an endless series of demons and hobgoblins so they remain clamorous for protection.
20
Guess what? BLM are organising another protest. This time at Sydney Town Hall on July 28th @ 12 noon. Cant wait to hear a comment by the Sydney mayor. What’s the bet she does a Daniel Andrews.
140
I expect you will find a much harsher response in NSW than Victoria given the comparative situation.
It is clear in NSW that there is now community spread from the Crossroads Motel. Having any large gathering while that is present is like spreading high volatile fuel onto burning embers.
NSW will be using the Victorian example to justify a heavy handed clamp down on unauthorised gatherings. When the BLM marches occurred in Victoria, the general view was that the virus could be readily controlled and was close to eradication. That all changed two weeks ago.
Getting jelly back into its container by pushing it back through a thin tube is easier than getting completely rid of the virus when people behave as some do.
93
Rick – see my post above.
If as I suspect ( and backed up by the Cell paper cited above ) if as I suspect we have the much less dangerous version of the virus now in Australia, in theory letting it rip through the community, we may find it may be no more dangerous than a bad flu.
I am starting to think that this indeed may be the case.
The media is nearly run its self hysterical in its hype of the whole damn thing, which makes me highly suspicious that they need to keep it hyped to keep the sheep lined up in thier cars for testing and keeping people scared.
I think it may be the emporers new clothes situation , if people were to actually sit down and look at what variant we have currently. A few deaths out of how many 1000s of people infected a crisis does not make.
73
One of my sons is in the COVID team at a Melbourne hospital and will soon transfer to the COVID team in the thick of cases at the Northern Hospital – it has been on bypass at times because of the increase in cases. It is impossible for a treating physician or nurse to eliminate the risk of catching the virus in a clinical setting. Treating even aged people suffering respiratory distress brings risks of uncontrollable situations.
I have great concern for anyone downplaying the risks of CV19. As Alan Jones pointed out, it ONLY kills about 1% of the population. That DOUBLES the total death rate.
When you downplay the risks you are showing total disregard for the health carers. Every hospitalised case puts them at risk. About 10% with the virus end up in hospital. That is a big number.
US is just starting to see the impact of the slack attitude of inconsiderate people in States that thought it was all over:
http://91-divoc.com/pages/covid-visualization/?chart=countries&highlight=United%20States&show=25&y=both&scale=linear&data=deaths-daily&data-source=jhu&xaxis=left#countries
Texas and Arizona have ordered refrigerated trucks because their morgues are filling fast.
I would be happy if people who broke the distancing rules were labelled and forbidden hospital treatment. That would be fair. Let them suffer the consequences for their foolishness without exposing health carers.
145
I was looking at the NSW Health stats for this thing – deaths occur in the 60+ age bracket and nothing below.
https://www.nsw.gov.au/covid-19/find-facts-about-covid-19#nsw-covid-19-statistics
I have great respect for the medical community, I have a friends son who works in one of the main Sydney hospitals.
However, simply put, this thing is a 60+ years old issue….only one person in NSW aged 50-60 has died.
3329 cases, 2799 recovered, 51 dead = 1.5% dead, all over aged 60.
And we don’t know how many of these had heart disease, diabetes or some other comorbidity.
This is not a problem for the bulk of the population, but you would think it was ebola….
I’m calling BS on it.,
25
So. We have a virus that sorts by death both by age and applied intellect – dumb but ruthlessly, as in the 1958 short story “The Examination Day,” and in the 1985(?) ten minute TV segment in The Twilight Zone (see it on YouTube.com). One is a set of proteins, the other our hypothetical government.
Does anyone else here see more than two ironies at play?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7V12tRrJ3Is
00
I see your point Rick, but do not agree. For a starter the distancing rules are arbitrary. Who say they work? Victims still need some help, even if they contributed to their own illness.
Private Hospitals have very strict rules now about admissions. I hope that works for them.
Protecting Staff in Hospital Emergency clinics is another problem. I agree that health workers need protection. We have had about 5 months now to work out how to do that. Up till now the arrangements have been quite minimal. Put a mask on every patient is a good start but it may not be enough on its own. Virology labs require full hazmat suits. They are used in Ebola outbreaks. I doubt that we need to go there yet but the next few weeks will tell. We have had health worker infections but almost all of them came from their homes, not the workplace,
21
Latest info from Victoria as at 14/07/2020
https://www.dhhs.vic.gov.au/coronavirus-update-victoria-14-july-2020
“Two new deaths have been reported since yesterday. A woman in her 80’s and a man in his 80’s, both died in hospital.
“To date, 26 people have died from coronavirus in Victoria.
“In Victoria at the current time:
752 cases may indicate community transmission
1803 cases are currently active in Victoria
85 cases of coronavirus are in hospital ( 4.7% of cases ), including 26 in intensive care ( 1.4% of cases )
2395 people have recovered from the virus
Of the total cases, 3799 cases are from metropolitan Melbourne, while 298 are from regional Victoria
Total cases include 2213 men and 2001 women
More than 1,170,300 tests have been processed
And if you look at Australia figures, its still an older persons disease – bulk of the deaths are over 60, mostly in 70-90 age bracket :
https://www.health.gov.au/news/health-alerts/novel-coronavirus-2019-ncov-health-alert/coronavirus-covid-19-current-situation-and-case-numbers#total-cases-and-deaths-by-state-and-territory
Trying to find out the ages of those hospitalized…
Normal flu figures for 2019
https://www.health.nsw.gov.au/Infectious/Influenza/Publications/2019/december-flu-report.pdf
“Pneumonia and influenza mortality
Due to delays in the death registration process, death datafor recent weeks are underestimated. For this reason, pneumonia or influenza mortality data from the three most recent weeks are not included.
For the week ending 20 December 2019, the rate of deaths attributed to pneumonia or influenza was 0.62per 100,000 NSW population below the epidemic threshold of 1.04per 100,000 population (Figure8).
Among the 52,347 death registrations in 2019,
399 (0.76%) mentioned influenza.
An additional 4442 (8.49%) death registrations mentioned pneumonia.
So in just NSW, 399 deaths from flu last year.
At this rate, they should be locking down NSW for the flu each year with 399 deaths….
Still calling BS on this damned thing.
21
Victorian Flu Hospital Admissions in 2019
https://www2.health.vic.gov.au/about/publications/researchandreports/seasonal-influenza-reports-2020
Paediatric Flu admissions 375
Paedatric Flu ICU admissions 42
Adult Flu Admissions 490
Adult Flu ICU 41
Total number of flu cases : 32,254
From NSW Flu reports for 2019 :
https://www.health.nsw.gov.au/Infectious/Influenza/Publications/2019/december-flu-report.pdf
“Influenza deaths with laboratory confirmation
For the year to 29December2019, there have been 334 influenza deaths identified using Coroner’s reports and death registrations with laboratory confirmation. (Table4).
“This includes the deaths of three people reported in the last four week period all of whom were aged 65 years and over. Deaths data are subject to change as new information is received.
“Table 4: Laboratory-confirmed influenza deaths by age-group and year, NSW, 2017 to 29 December 2019 (by date of death).
“Flu deaths for 2019 :
“0-4 years 0
“5-19 years 0
“20-64 years 33
“65+ years 301
“Total 334
Now put that in context with 26 deaths in Victoria from COV19….
And also funnily enough, we also see with COVID19 and FLu the same 65+ years with the mortality…..who’d have thought.
So….if normal flu is just as bad, why the hysterical lockdowns for COV19, but not for Flu?
32
Simple, OS. The flu problem is perennial, CV19 is new, and until recent and soon pending advances become routine, costly and capricious. We have good and rational expectations of changing the threat calculus quite soon for the latter — not so for the former.
The Risks/reward profiles over much shorter time horizons are simply quite different. This makes serious preventive course of action about Covid19 rather more rational than indifference (which influenza isn’t really, given the long-term benefits of annual flu shots for significant portions of the populations.
Meanwhile, in the real world of hard pioneering health science, two promising vaccines are getting their phase three human effective (or infection prevention) trials of some 30,000 subjects started, with a third vaccine to start any week now.
Here’s a long and illuminating look at the Oxford/Jenner/AstraZenica group
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/features/2020-07-15/oxford-s-covid-19-vaccine-is-the-coronavirus-front-runner
The other phase three testing project is Moderna of Cambridge, Mass, led by a Frenchman. The third is by the giant Johnson & Johnson company. Apparently, the Chinese vaccine has met serious set backs. (NO tears for you!)
Aren’t there one or two other early contenders?
It looks to me like a heroic rush of research science, medicine producers, governments, and charitable interests are all coordinating and competing for the glory of an effective, large social and economic capital saving prize. And it’s roughly on anticipated schedule, or even a few weeks early.
Which in this case means historically unprecedented, and almost Trumpian, “Operation Warp Speed!”
The US federal government set a low but doable 50% vaccine effectiveness bar. But the central scientist at the Oxford group (see link) is aiming significantly higher, at 80%. And one of the principles states the ultimate pragmatically effective safety goal: people not dying nor going to the hospital! Amen to that.
Perhaps Joanne will consider hosting a reader betting poll: which group achieves an effective vaccine first? Or none…?
Without much diversion like popular teams sports, we could do worse than get lost in arguing about the merits and failings of our chosen vaccine science teams! Join in for the internet kibitzing, haggling, and side-bets!
13
Texas, with a population about 4 million more than Australia (29,677,668) has had 3,112 deaths so far attributed to Covid 19 but the annual flu toll is about 10,000 plus. See chart below for more details including percentages etc., for the previous two years.
https://www.barnhardt.biz/wp-content/uploads/2020/07/img_2515.jpg
00
The deaths from flu would be much greater without so many people getting a flu shot. I had one for this season it contained four different swine flu shots and a general secondary infection shot.
Since then another swine flu has been identified,the good thing about the virus lockdown is that it will also stop the spread of normal flu besides the Wu flu.
10
I hope he’s dosing himself on HCQ,and Zinc as a prophylactic Rick.
If he isn’t, then it’s time for you to give him some fatherly advice.
10
As previously stated, the panic demic will end up being 10 times than the pandemic
65000 people a year die in Australia
That’s over 1200 per week
Why doesn’t the media say another 1000 people this week contracted cancer, etc, etc
We can’t keep shutting down the economy every outbreak
This strategy will kill the economy stone dead
The collateral damage to the young and future generations will not be acceptable!!
171
This thing is primarily an economic weapon.
A stated aim of Communists is to destroy the middle class.
So far, this virus hysteria is doing just that.
And also watch as they try and outlaw ever treatment, except vaccines…the globalists and their foot soldiers just gotta stick stuff in people….its a form of brutalization of the population…lockdowns….army and police roaming the streets….
Citizen, your papers please….
Sure we arent in North Korea?
The beautiful thing about declaring a “war” is you can do awful things to a population under emergency powers and tell people they will get thiri freedoms back…but it was never the plan.
This isnt about the virus, and people know it…..
62
Good grief more delusional conspiracy thinking.
You’ve got the PDS bad mate.
Seek help !
🙂
19
Have you actually read any of my posts of the medical information Ive posted above?
I can only go on what I physically see happening around me, and also have a good understanding of politics, sociology and the openly stated aims of the globalists.
If that’s “delusional” then maybe we are living in a parallel universe….. or,perhaps its reality.
Question – historically, once a govt has greater power over a population, does it scale it back by choice? Go back 200-300 years.
Interestingly, Dangerous Dan, who appears to be a communist, has suspended parliament in Victoriastan. In terms of democracy, would you endorse that?
10
sure… as soon as cancer and traffic accidents become contagious
02
I like the analogy.
30
The problem with groups like BLM and their associated protests is that in reality they have very little direct support, even within their protests. 10,000 sounds impressive for a rally, right up until you look at the primary vote for Melbourne in the last Federal election and release just how many voters within the space of a few tram stops identify – privately at least – as Green.
The other point is that within that 10,000 most of them are the usual collection of angry types who would protest anything provided they got another chance to wear their F-Triple-Star Tony Abbott t-shirts out in public again. They, as a single focus group, don’t represent the views of the overall public and don’t even represent the views of the Greater Left.
My point? I regard the entire movement as a mob of twonks and pox on their houses.
HOWEVER, having allowed 10,000 ferals to drool their way through the streets of Melbourne screaming because screaming is what you do when you don’t actually have a valid argument, what have we seen?
Well politically we have seen that Chairman Dan is making things up as he goes along, because playing golf bad, but 10,000 people process is Social Justice.
Medically however?
10,000 people.
2 confirmed Covid cases (implication? There were probably several more) attended.
If we are generous and assume these two people only moved relative to the same people the entire time as opposed to casually mingling past hundreds, then we can say that there were six people within 1.5m of each person during the rally. (Like I said, we are being generous)
So best case situation and Bill and Ben protentional infected 12 people.
See where I am going with this?
It is not that protest has led to spike. Protest has preceded the spike but IF the protest did increase the spread of WuFlu then where is the massive spike that SHOULD have started appearing about 2 weeks after the event?
Remember, very best case is that the two identified infected were the ONLY infected and they ONLY mingled with the people immediately around them for the entire day. Very best case.
I put it to you that rather than looking at the 10s of people who have been identified as ‘cases’ (whatever the definition of ‘case’ is these days) we should instead be considered the 1000s of people who SHOULD have been newly infected but aren’t.
Then we can consider just how utterly pointless in context Lockdowns actually were. Victoria was the lockiest of the lockdown states, yet remains the most infected. Doesn’t strike me as a successful example of lockdowns at work.
Of course in theory a lockdown should work, because in theory everyone is literally isolated from everyone else for the entire period like a good text book petri dish. In practice lockdowns are filled with holes or don’t even exist. I, for example, are Essential (ya me) and with a few exceptions have spent the entire time working from work.
Lockdowns haven’t worked, Lockdowns won’t work, Kerr did not conspire with the Palace and Maxwell did not kill herself. Deal with it.
101
Let’s test your theory, four states introduce lockdowns and hard borders and are now effectively virus free so the question which one must ask is if lock downs don’t work what was the reason these states became virus free?
83
Yeah but the big question is – is the current version of the virus ( SG614 ) actually as dangerous as it previously was?
I’m starting to think not.
If so, let it rip….
117
Childish magical thinking is here again !
316
Have you actually read the Cell paper above?
Then comment….
91
From what I have read this mutation stabilises the spike ergo it can attach to the cell far better
22
yes but if the virus itself is of a lesser danger than the original, who cares?
23
The problem, OS, is are you going to join the Guinea Pigs? Your betting everything on an untested emergent property. And subject non-Guinea subjects to your bet, as well.
Is that kind of experiment really only sporting? Or something more nauseating?
There are HIV-Aids “bug catchers” playing their roulette games – why not have a group go at that? It used to be a gay man’s party drug sport, too!
Are you really, really that…brave?
00
Three things, Population density, temperatures over 15C and Sunlight. Tasmania and SA won because of very low population densities in spite of being cold because the average distance between people is too wide for the virus and they managed to eradicate the infection before microdroplet transmission kicked in. QLD and WA won mainly from geography. UV soaked outdoors even in winter and low population densities outside of the cities. Brisbane/Perth/Darwin don’t have the highrise of Sydney and Melbourne and like SA they managed to eradicate the infection before winter.
Victoria failed because it didn’t eradicate the contagion before microdroplet transmission became prevalent as it is now. NSW is being reinfected by Victoria but probably is north enough to keep the virus under wraps. Southern NSW along the border is probably most at risk.
810
Easily dispelled drivel:
http://91-divoc.com/pages/covid-visualization/?chart=states&highlight=Florida&show=us-states&y=both&scale=linear&data=cases-daily-7&data-source=jhu&xaxis=right#states
Cases started to skyrocket in early summer in Florida and a myriad of other hot, sunny places. Florida average high in June is 30C and average low is 25C. Sun almost directly overhead at zenith; average daily sunlight 9.6 hours.
64
Airconditioning has been mentioned as a possible means of transmission.
The population density in a shopping centre is quite high and lots of people visit. Hence it is worth wearing a mask and eye protection when shopping.
100
So you both deny the science, published here and talked about in a letter by 600 doctors to the WHO about microdroplet transmission?
11
No I didn’t deny the Science (with Capital “S”), nor did I read the letter by 600 doctors.
Please Explain!
10
My god some people are Math challenged, you are equating say Queensland with 1.7 MILLION square km and 5 Million population = 2.9 people per square km with Florida, Area 170,000 and a population of 20 Million or 117 people per square km. The population density of Florida is the eighth highest in the USA and 40 TIMES Queensland.
Infections like this spread rapidly in high density populations particularly ones that share cold air supplies even when moderated by temperature and UV. You can’t compare Florida with Queensland because of the vast population density differences. In winter Florida would be ten times worse.
32
Utter nonsense Bob.
85% of Queenslanders live in the South East corner.
On roughly 10% of the area.
So your stars are just misleading crap.
You’ve got PDS pretty bad mate.
35
Seems take Florida with a grain (or more) of salt
“Florida Media Discover Widespread False Reports of Positive COVID Tests – Massive Data Disparities – Video and Report…”
https://theconservativetreehouse.com/2020/07/14/florida-media-discover-widespread-false-reports-of-positive-covid-tests-massive-data-disparities-video-and-report/
31
Hey Rick. Behaviour also changed. People felt safe and played roulette. Play stupid games, risk winning stupid,,,!
21
What a load of carp
61
People can be so self centred
Although slightly off topic, I was at a pub in Newcastle today
I was washingy hands after using the toilet when a man came out of a cubicle and went straight out with our any hand washing
Complete grub
Whilst we have grubs like this, no wonder we have public health issues
93
Jo,
I wish you’d publish science instead of propaganda. The tower outbreak has occurred because of shared air supply, and frankly if I came back into the country like Danni I’d refuse to hole up in a shared air supply and would insist on going straight to my isolated rural home for isolation too. Hotel isolation is so much BS, the idea that you can put people with Covid into a building with a common air supply with people without Covid and not expect outbreak is quite frankly st***d. The chief medical officers – all of them – should be disbarred from the medical profession for even suggesting it’s a good idea.
116
Hotel quarantine worked in South Australia.
But it was properly supervised by police..
61
We have spoken here at length about microdroplets and shared air supplies on the face of it hotel quarantine infects the healthy as does shelter at home. No-one should be housed with likely or known infected others in a shared ventilation building (other than an infectious diseases ward in a hospital) unless they are also confirmed positive.
13
It worked Bob.
Nothing else matters.
I fear that PDS has you by the short & curlies.
44
I never said it doesn’t work BUT it almost certainly also infects people put into that quarantine next door to (less than 10m away from) an infected person, in a shared air system.
You are so virtuous to protect the community by deliberately infecting other members of the community, and breeding a bigger pool of infection people. The hotels are petrie dishes.
In my community its almost impossible for me to catch Covid because I am 100m away from my neighbours with a 75m UV soaked air gap. For the same reason I’m not likely to catch Flu unless I decide to go to the Brisbane show.
Methinks that PDS has you in it’s grip rather than I. I just impassionately do the math and apply geometry, physics and chemistry Bill, something you don’t do.
52
Jo, I’m going to make another plea, you have written about these before: UV, Vitamin D, UV sterilisation, microdroplet transmission, and the desiccation of water based proteins in warm air, and so on. Rather than repeat the words of others I want you to use your own intellect to look at the problem yourself and use YOUR knowledge of physics and chemistry to understand behaviour.
Knowing what you know about the physics of THIS universe, in a cold climate like Victoria or southern WA that would support microdroplets travelling more than 30m, would you allow yourself to be locked up INSIDE in a 20 m2 room with little to no UV exposure sharing an air supply with dozens of others, where some are reasonably certain to have CV-19?
31
What is your view bobl?
Jo is very smart but your own ideas are probably just as good.
21
‘Last drinks have been called for Sydneysiders, Victorians and even patrons from Albury who planned on visiting the Bathurst RSL club in the NSW Central Tablelands.
‘As parts of Sydney battle outbreaks of COVID-19, and Victoria experiences another day of cases above 200, the RSL club said it had been forced to make the “difficult decision” to shut their doors to visitors from Victoria, Albury, Sydney and the Blue Mountains.
‘Taking to Facebook, the RSL club said the decision was not to cause offence to patrons, rather it was to “best protect” club members and staff “in these uncertain times”.
News.com
21
Meanwhile…
Apparently, to delete the app, you need govt permission….I wonder if it means it could almost be considered malware?
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-07-15/coronavirus-app-limited-use-in-victoria-200-contacts-found/12456454
“The COVIDSafe app is yet to provide any assistance to Victorian health authorities tasked with contact tracing, as the state grapples to contain outbreaks of the coronavirus.
“New figures reveal more than 300 people with coronavirus have the app on their phone and have granted officials permission to sift through their data.
“However, Victoria’s Chief Medical Officer Brett Sutton said the information logged by the app provided no information that was not already collected through traditional contact tracing.
81
In fairness the app was meant to help in the event of a widespread breakout within the community that overwhelmed the ability for manual tracing. We haven’t had that breakout and until we do we aren’t in a position to judge whether the app will provide more than traditional contact tracing.
41
Jo I suggest that all folks commenting here
With PDS – Pandemic Derangement Syndrome
Be put in quarantine.
🙂
216
Bill, I believe you adopt the same rationale as Wally in your rigorous analysis of points of researched argument.
Dilbert: “What rational process do you use to determine who is right?”
Wally: “I label people who disagree with me ‘idiots’ and call it a day.”
https://dilbert.com/strip/2020-06-23
82
I read comments and judge their rationality and the evidence and the biases.
I see you are suffering severely from PDS.
Don’t worrit too much Rob.
It does go away after a while for most sufferers.
But if it persists seek some psychological help.
🙂
17
Actually Bill, I’m not suffering and I’m glad you did not day I should seek psychiatric help, then I might have started to worry.
I see your PSD from the other side of the fence and like an inmate of an asylum believe that I am the only sane one. Time will tell.
41
That is another symptom Rob.
🙁
Good luck in the can.
🙂
05
We’re only 4 weeks into the Dark Season (Winter Solstice to Vernal Equinox) — very early Sickness Season, and there are fresh outbreaks all around. Lockdowns in Eastern Oz. In NZ there’s breaking windows and jumping fences, followed by ‘shopping.’ ‘Breaking out’ of [mis]managed quarantine in NZ.
Covid is baaaaaaack!
Told ya so, Bill.
(To muck things up just takes people … no computer necessary.)
21
No link Soph ?
I did a search on DDG,,Targeting news about Covid in NZ.
And while there were lots of hits
NO reports of any new infections.
Are you indulging in some humorous misinformation ?
02
No link. Just a bit of indulgent humour. The breakouts here in NZ (2 to date — like really huge numbers) have not caused any outbreaks. It’s too early to say there won’t be.
The first one jumped a fence, the second went out a window. I can’t remember the status of number 1 but number 2 was supposed to be clear.
There are still quite a few people in `covid jail’ doing their time, so there’s still room for anything to happen here.
If there’s a way of stuffing things up, you can trust one or more humans to find it.
I’ll be watching the next 6 weeks with interest. It will be next week before we can be sure the breakouts didn’t cause any outbreaks.
Flu Season is starting. Oh joy.
11
And yet, Mr Morrison was yelling at Queensland on June 29 to open its borders (conveniently ignoring the other border closures), so it’s true, the virus with but one aim (spread as far as possible), is smarter than all the southeast based pollies.
213
No need to include Morrison Peter; I am quite willing to believe that a virus is smarter than all southwest pollies. But bear in mind that the virus knows what it is doing.
51
We really don’t need the ten cents worth from someone who can’t appreciate what a virus is. If it were smart, it wouldn’t kill it’s host.
I really do hate people who can’t appreciate that locking up everyone in their house with enough food and toilet paper for a month would work to stop the virus. Its just not practical.
41
Over 7 million of the more than 13 million infected have survived, with deaths slightly over ½ a million, so you get the asinine comment of the day.
In your second sentence you refute the established fact that distancing will bring the transmission rate down below 1.
Go back and read the excellent posts on this blog relating to that.
14
You should look at the stats I posted higher up here to see the numbers of deaths and hospitalizations from just the normal yearly flu.
If COV19 deaths don’t crack more than 399 in NSW and 334 in Victoria ( see stats above ),
it will be officially a lesser problem than the run of the mill yearly Flu.
The MSM is also fanning the flames, making sure everyone gets an “hour of Covid” daily ( with apologies to “1984” ). Without the constant shrieking about what in real terms is a really a non event, most people wouldn’t know, or, sensibly, care.
The MSM is a bigger problem than the virus.
Lets de-fund the ABC as soon as possible, it cranks out huge volumes of pointless covid nonsense….
And the we have the “covid safe” app which is a waste of space…..
Anyone see a pattern here?
62
You raised a very interesting scenario with your comment about Insurance Jo. If one of my family members fell victim to the CCP Virus, and was incapacitated and could not work again, I would be looking for restitution. You might have several devotees with legal qualifications to investigate this scenario but think about the following: As you suggested, if the investigation can identify a person who attended the BLM “protest” as a transmitter and can be connected via a causal link, say with their telephone records being subpoenead, then I might have them on the ropes. I might also have the organizers, and even better, the State Government by the proverbial Short & Curly’s. No Insurer that I am aware would indemnify the defendant for deliberately attending a rally, as they would be accepting the risk. One only need check Legal Liability Insurance policies (including home contents policies that cover such risks) and they would find that the Insurers would be running for the trenches. But even better – what about aggravated damages for deliberately causing injury; what fun the Lawyers would have. Bring it on.
And being the contemptible b….rd that I am, I would love to see the rotten swines suffer.
51
“Lockdowns work” – depends on what you mean by “work”.
Lockdowns alleviate the present – they solve nothing.
New Zealand – the “success story”……what is their next move…?…how do they move forward…they NEED to open but cant…they are locked in self isolation (economic doom).
132
Its not so bad, Oz and NZ can eliminate the virus and be open for business within our Covid free bubble.
Overseas students and new immigrants are banned, surely this is a good thing. The loss of 500 staff at UNSW is unfortunate, but we’ll need agricultural workers if the backpackers are denied entry.
21
Most of Australia is Not In The Bubble! ie NSW and Vic.
21
A real pity that those two state governments are such slow learners.
PDS infected.
( Pandemic Derangement Syndrome ! )
04
Oh goodness! Dont wish 500 UNSW staff on us! What could we do with them? Shear a sheep? Drive a tractor? Fix a fence? Spray weeds?
20
Jane,
Surely there are some simple tasks that such people could do.
It would get them out of their inner city latte BLM burbs.
And into the bush where they might learn a little about real life.
🙂
11
Some of them may even be able to drive a calculator …
20
“Yet again, politicians and health advisors are three weeks behind a virus that has no brain.”
Great summming up.
71
“Yet again, politicians and health advisors are three weeks behind a virus that has no brain.”
Great summming up.
01
[Duplicate]
01
Oh nose, immunity doesn’t hang around, Covid is going to be a permanent fixture unless we eliminate it forever.
https://wattsupwiththat.com/2020/07/15/study-finds-coronavirus-immunity-could-be-lost-in-months/
10
It is worth reading the comments in the thread. A very valuable lesson in how not to take these kinds of ‘messages’ as serious studies of how our immune systems work. As one person puts it ‘why on earth would you need antibodies when not under attack?’ Our immune systems respond as necessary as not as medical professionals might like to lead us to believe they do.
Here in the UK I have seen enough messy governance for one life time let alone a matter of four months. From the start of the epidemic we have relied upon those who have resistance to the virus as is always the case to act as barriers to infection. I personally do not feel it is ever helpful to make an illness bigger than it really is. Deaths occur in every ‘flu season but have never been reported on a daily basis before. The fact is the vast majority of people appear to have avoided infection completely, but we will never know how many people needlessly died. That is what troubles me most about this unprecedented period in our history; how much pain have we caused because we became too damned complacent about investing in measures necessary to contain infectious outbreaks that can occur anytime they choose?
30
I see that families of the dead who lived in aged care homes are now suing the UK government.
Good for them is my opinion.
Take the idiots to the cleaners
02
Just remind me Bill, who eventually pays that bill, if they are successful?
They’ve already been taken to the cleaners. And, will continue to be cleaned out for a long time to come.
51
Bill
They are not suing the UK Govt. They are, in effect, suing the UK taxpayer, who had no control
over the policies concerning care homes and admissions.
Money will not bring their elderly relatives back from the dead.
If they want retribution it would be better to ask for fines or prosecution or dismissal with loss of
pension rights of those who ctually signed the orders that sent sick people to homes full of the vulnerable elderly.
And perhaps the “scientists ” who gave the civil servants such lethal advice.
BTW I have an elderly (same age as me) relative with dementia in just such a care home and am well aware of the
remarkable administrative policies the managers found it necessary to put in place to keep everyone there safe (so far).
30
That will not happen Mike
And You know that already.
Sue the bastards…
Stop pollywaffling !
03
Won’t happen, EG. Not for either of us.
That’s what you get when you put climate scientists in charge of pandemic modeling.
40
The above is aimed at El Gordo @#18.1 … half a km up the page.
To really stuff things up requires a computer driven by a human 😀
20
I’m not yet sure that a human driven by a computer would ever be much better.
10
There were BLM protesters in all the capital cities, but only Victoria got a breakout. To paint BLM protestors as the villains, rather than the established link between security and retuning international passengers is ideological rather than data based.
19
Probably a refection of the underlying level of Corona 19 virus still existing in each big city.
Adelaide has no known infections apart from peopel in quarantine. The demo happened at Victoria square and there has been no spike in local transmission.
By contrast Melbourne had major breakdowns in it’s quarantining of overseas travellers with up to 30% of traveellers refusing to be tested before being released into the community.
And then the demo brought together a mass protest of 10,000 people..Now we are seeing the results of that protester idiocy.
Pity it was all about BLM stuff happening in the USA !
33
BLM protesters are the villians …
… that ideological protest is data based now.
50
In Canada, when this Pandemic hit, our government was still in full globalization mode and was a little late to close the airports. The Toronto Mayor was just finishing his China trade trip and was almost locked out.
With all these trade agreements, we still had just in time deliveries and no PPE supplies stored. Just threw out millions of 3M manufacturing date expired masks.
With poor enforcement at our old age homes, and nurses going from place to place, we had rapid infections at first. Our Canadian Military had to be called into 12 Nursing homes as their was no PPE and many of the staff were sick with the virus as well.
We are okay now but this Pandemic has decimated our small businesses. The large ones were getting subsidies and all sorts of government perks.
But our GDP debt load is enormous now and we lost our AAA credit rating due to government spending.
71
Don’t worry …
You’ll get your good ratings back — when you’ve hocked the country’s Crown Jewels off to the International Shylocks at bargain basement prices and paid it all back with Interest three times over.
You’ve probably noticed how they always leave you one arm when they’ve taken the three other limbs … that’s to sign the cheques …
31
Research on this virus is quite shaky often. This is shown by the amount of research papers Retraction Watch site has listed under the title ‘Retracted coronavirus (COVID-19) papers’.
I’d post a link but the manic auto-sensor at play on this site throws such comments with this link straight into the bin, not to be seen for hours.
Still you could get there through https:// retaction watch (as one word) dot com and navigate down the left hand side to ‘Retracted coronavirus (COVID-19) papers’ to see them.
40
A test …
https://retractionwatch.com/ for the latest.
20
colour me surprised the link now works 🙂
Thank you whoever fixed it. I take back all the comment about the auto-sensor at this site, it appears to have been taught a lesson – my apologises.
10
Yesterday I wrote a letter to the Oz, asking why there was apparent hushing up of the BLM protest path of virus spread. Not much hope of being published. I suggested that those who went to the protest be required to state if they were there, if/when they had been admitted to hospital after that demonstration, for any reason. Also to name friends protesting with them. Also that they provide data for contact tracing.
My wife and I and several of our older friends regard these protest attendees as partaking in deliberate, premeditated attempted murder. You will know how we feel if you are older than 75, with comorbidities like compromised immune systems, heart and lungs problems, etc.
It is a shame that those old enough to be at high risk also have the experience, the compassion, the care for life that is in low abundance in the minds of these besotted, easily led young pseudo-rebels. Geoff S
80
Uh uh. Link not fixed — your post had insufficient words to warp, twist and confuse the script(s) …
00
This #26.1 is reply to tomOmason at 25.1.1
It’s the second post misplaced today. I give up: I’m going back to bed 😀
20
Posted this on previous post, but more relevant here:
For the past few days Victoria has been getting 170-270 positive tests per day, not doubling every 5 days as was happening in the build up to this new wave.
But that is based on the results of 27,000 tests per day, so a bit under 1% positive results from recent tests.
I wonder if they doubled the number of daily tests whether the number of new cases would also double?
Has the Victorian second wave really peaked, or is that due to the limitation in the number of daily tests?
The next five days results should reveal the answer.
30
Potential cure for Covid 19 :
https://www.jpost.com/health-science/hebrew-u-scientist-drug-could-eradicate-covid-19-from-lungs-in-days-635028
The virus seems to need high carbohydrates to replicate. This drug enhances fat burning in cells.
Courtesy of Chiefio.
12
I wonder if it would work on the UN?
10
Not according to the Premier of NSW. She seems to think the virus will play nice if we live with it … to prevent ‘disruption’. Another case of not understanding the nature of exponential growth which will just force NSW into another State-wide closure, and closure of the QLD border again.
She apparently hasn’t learned anything, too busy listening to business political donors maybe?
31
Jo – you state that ‘lockdowns work’. But I I think the empirical evidence would suggest otherwise. The only reason you might want to do a lockdown is because you can either eradicate it or because it is truly lethal to a large proportion of the population. Neither of those are true for Covid 19. Look around – has anyone managed to eradicate it ? I mean anyone with a meaningful sized population. And Australia has only had 126 deaths from this … out of over 100,000 deaths in Australia from everything else this year. You are destroying your wealth for nothing. Very sad.
41
What would you call a “meaningful sized population’ ?
00
Reality
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wf0LSdpEy9w&t=201s
https://www.aier.org/article/when-will-the-madness-end/
“What is it that you do?” I asked.
“I’m a practicing psychiatrist who specializes in anxiety disorders, paranoid delusions, and irrational fear. I’ve been treating this in individuals as a specialist. It’s hard enough to contain these problems in normal times. What’s happening now is a spread of this serious medical condition to the whole population. It can happen with anything but here we see a primal fear of disease turning into mass panic. It seems almost deliberate. It is tragic. Once this starts, it could take years to repair the psychological damage.”
https://www.redstate.com/michael_thau/2020/07/13/many-medical-experts-were-against-lockdowns-the-media-just-didnt-want-us-know/
21
… proceeds to spread virus into the same community they’re claiming is oppressed and kept down, keeping it in a literal lockdown.
That movie Idiocracy needs to take its place next to Brave New World and 1984.
00