JoNova

A science presenter, writer, speaker & former TV host; author of The Skeptic's Handbook (over 200,000 copies distributed & available in 15 languages).


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Weekend Unthreaded

9.1 out of 10 based on 10 ratings

124 comments to Weekend Unthreaded

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    • #
      James Murphy

      Don’t worry, I have a feeling the records will show it to be the hottest summer ever, no matter what the thermometers say.

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  • #

    Are Australians too trusting or too lazy or just plain naive’, maybe all of the above? Sadly I’m old enough to remember when the Govt. generated our power, delivered our water, our mail and connected our ‘phones and built our roads.
    I think it was back in the 80’s or 90’s when someone said Governments shouldn’t be doing these things, they’re too inefficient. Before one could say “Jack Robinson”, E-Bay was full of Government Utilities for sale. My question is twofold, firstly, how did this idea gain currency so quickly and secondly does anyone have an example of prices falling after privatisation?
    The Chinese Communist Party must have been ecstatic, here we were, a fully developed Country, up for sale and going cheap.
    This week’s Spectator Magazine carries an article written by Samuel McClelland. I pretty much knew all this stuff, in the main thanks to Alan Jones’s radio show and Clive Hamilton’s book, but McClelland puts it all on one page. Read it if you dare.
    https://www.spectator.com.au/2020/06/dont-mention-this-article-on-your-smart-phone/
    See also the post on the death of governance http://www.dinosaurdiary.com.au

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    • #
      PeterW

      The idea was so popular because government could use the money from the sale to buy more votes. Roll out the old Pork Barrel and recruit for the Free Stuff Army.

      To be fair, there IS a cost to having a Government monopoly and often the costs are hidden – you pay for them in your income tax……. The problem is not so much Private Enterprise, as a corrupt market which the Government has kept firmly in its own sweaty hands.

      51

    • #
      Strop

      How did the idea gain currency?
      Well, in Victoria’s case, after Cain / Kirner the state was practically broke with a credit rating that had fallen from AAA to C.O.D.
      Selling utilities was seen as essential capital raising.

      50

  • #
    Another Ian

    ““Taking a knee” to the destroyers of worlds”

    https://www.melaniephillips.com/taking-knee-destroyers-worlds/

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    • #
      DOC

      Another Ian. It’s called capitulation, but that word is probably censored out
      now as the Democracy show just how weakly they are educated and governed.

      51

      • #

        Good article by Melanie Philips.

        Some citizens in our society believe we are not tolerant enough, democratic enough, diverse enough, or respect everyone’s lifestyles. We can obviously learn valuable lessons from black society, so if they could just point to the black nations we should emulate, then we can start our learning process.

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          Ross

          Melanie Philips is one of my favourite writers from the UK. She is a properly trained writer and journalist –learnt it is as a “trade” not from from a trendy University course that is all theory and very little practice.

          I’m not sure when she “converted” but her early career was at the Guardian.

          30

    • #
      Kalm Keith

      She covers the present situation well.

      10

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    Another Ian

    “Don’t touch your face” and “wash your hands” really meant “don’t stick your finger all the way up your nostril”.

    ” Our results show that the airborne transmission route is highly virulent and dominant for the spread of COVID-19. The mitigation measures are discernable from the trends of the pandemic. Our analysis reveals that the difference with and without mandated face covering represents the determinant in shaping the trends of the pandemic. This protective measure significantly reduces the number of infections. Other mitigation measures, such as social distancing implemented in the United States, are insufficient by themselves in protecting the public.

    From a research article published in the Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences of the United States of America titled: “We Really Have No Fucking Clue. Keep Sending Money And Check Again Next Week.”

    http://www.smalldeadanimals.com/index.php/2020/06/12/wuhan-flu-50/

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      Bill In Oz

      But here in Oz we did fine without masks.
      (As mandated by our governments )
      We are very exceptional people maybe?
      Or this research is just bunkum maybe ?

      08

      • #
        Bill In Oz

        It would be really great if these researchers could explain the 23.5 million black swans here in Australia.

        06

      • #
        Sceptical Sam

        Bill, the reason the Government mandated the non-use of masks was because they didn’t have any in store for distribution, in the first place.

        In addition, they were caught with their collective pants down as China’s super-agents bought up and exported all the stock that existed in the hands of commercial enterprises, months before the Government woke up to what was going on.

        When you can’t deliver, the convenient excuse is “it doesn’t work”. That’s the spin Government used. Don’t fall for it.

        But Australians weren’t fooled. We saw the fact that the front-line medical workers were prepped with PPE, including p95s. Of course they work. That why governments are now recommending them. That’s why Twiggy flew massive numbers of them in from China.

        Government incompetence all the way down.

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          Bill In Oz

          Sam this is a belated reply to your comment about masks not being encouraged by our governments here in Oz.
          Yes I agree with you completely. “Incompetence All the way down” !
          However that means that ( with some exceptions like Jo herself & me occasionally )
          We did not use masks unless employed in medical situations.
          Yet as a nation we have been remarkably successful at eliminating this virus.
          Now that is a huge [email protected]*k swan which needs researching

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          yarpos

          So we accept that lockdowns, border closures etc worked because we have a low body count.

          but

          We dont accept that masks werent necessary for most because we have a low body count

          Perhaps people just make there own decisions about what they wear. Nobody ever stopped people wearing them, not sure what the issue is.

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            Sceptical Sam

            Yarpos,

            The issue is (was) Bill’s assertion that masks were unnecessary. He cited Australia’s COVID-19 performance as evidence for that assertion.

            It’s a faulty analysis. Masks work, not 100% on their own, but in conjunction with other actions. They are part of the prophylaxis. The figure I read somewhere recently is that they give a level of protection that rates at around 62%. I’ll see if I can dig it out and post the link.

            20

            • #
              Sceptical Sam

              “Face mask use could result in a large reduction in risk of infection (n=2647; aOR 0·15, 95% CI 0·07 to 0·34, RD –14·3%, –15·9 to –10·7; low certainty), with stronger associations with N95 or similar respirators compared with disposable surgical masks or similar (eg, reusable 12–16-layer cotton masks; pinteraction=0·090; posterior probability >95%, low certainty).”

              https://www.thelancet.com/action/showPdf?pii=S0140-6736%2820%2931142-9

              Mind you, given the Lancet’s performance in publishing fake medical science recently, I’m not too sure how much faith anybody can have in the publication these days.

              Where I got the 62% from is a mystery.

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              yarpos

              For practical purposes , for the normal population, it seems demonstrably true that they werent needed. Most didnt wear the and it appears 99.99% at least suffered no ill effects. Seems to me that the advice was correct and as long as the didnt prohibit them the more cautious were/are at liberty to use them.

              10

    • #
      Fred Streeter

      Anyone who comments on the Abstract of a paper, rather than the paper itself, is not worth taking note of.

      Indeed, the use of the term “Wuhan Flu” should have alerted me to the worthlessness of the post.

      Sorry, but the paper itself was pretty well argued.

      I don’t wear a mask myself, around here very few do. We are very good about distancing ourselves, though.

      We are outside the city, on the edge of recreational and agricultural land. No real Lockdown (unless it’s raining).

      12

  • #
    RicDre

    Indigenous Coal Power Entrepreneurs Frustrated by Broken Promises and Lack of Support

    The Scott Morrison government promised millions of dollars for a feasibility study for an Australian Aboriginal initiative to build a new coal power plant in Queensland, to provide jobs and hope for their children. So far everyone has let them down.

    https://wattsupwiththat.com/2020/06/12/indigenous-coal-power-entrepreneurs-frustrated-by-broken-promises-and-lack-of-support/

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  • #
    RicDre

    Study: Coral Reef Islands Grow with Rising Sea Level

    Another study confirming that coral reef islands are dynamic, and adjust rapidly to changes in sea level.

    https://wattsupwiththat.com/2020/06/11/study-coral-reef-islands-grow-with-rising-sea-level/

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    • #
      James Murphy

      I wonder if this was before or after they wrote papers confirming that they sky is blue, water is wet, and that the Pope is a Catholic?

      70

      • #
        Greg in NZ

        There’s a great little video of Nils-Axel Morner explaining the waxing and waning of the Gulf Stream, and its warming/cooling effect on Europe over the millennia, in one of the comments. Backed-up by observed & recorded data (not soothsayers’ models) he shows a 60-year cycle, or ‘beat’ as he calls it, which has ramifications as far away as Pacific Ocean atolls due to thermohaline sea currents.

        Even though his English is very broken and faltering, he has one thing most hysteric climate cultist hexspurts lack, namely a wicked sense of humour. Oh and hard science too, rarities these days.

        70

  • #
    Another Ian

    “A Letter Smuggled Out From The Berkeley Gulag”

    https://rosebyanyothernameblog.wordpress.com/2020/06/12/a-letter-smuggled-out-from-the-berkeley-gulag/amp/

    Via a comment at SDA

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    • #
      Kalm Keith

      Very long but I will go back and finish it.

      There’s hope for the World when statements like that can be written in an American university.

      What’s so tragic is that to express such views may place the writer in great danger.

      We have a long way to go, but at least that statement is a good guide on where to go.

      KK

      30

  • #
    RicDre

    Why the Oceans Really Aren’t “Acidifying” but the Term Is Being Abused by Science and Media

    Science and media outlets claim ocean acidification is happening due to increased carbon dioxide in the atmosphere. But objective data show the ocean is far from acidic according to Dr. Caleb Rossiter, executive director of the CO2 Coalition and a statistician who has studied climate change closely.

    https://wattsupwiththat.com/2020/06/11/podcast-why-the-oceans-really-arent-acidifying-but-the-term-is-being-abused-by-science-and-media/#comment-3013569

    30

  • #
    Peter C

    High Altitude Balloons

    Over the past week I have noticed High Altitude Balloons over WA as seen on Flightradar24.

    Initially I noticed 4 of them. They seem to fly at 55-60000ft and wander about as the high level wind blows them. Two wandered off toward Indonesia. This morning there were 2 of them left and this afternoon only 1. However a new balloon appeared today near Geraldton.

    The balloons have US registration codes. When these are checked on google the numbers relate to other aircraft (not balloons).

    Does any one know who launches them and what they are for?

    80

    • #
      Annie

      I’ve seen that too PeterC. I did look them up but can’t remember much about them. Will look again…

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      Annie

      I looked it up again. They are balloons which are part of ‘Project Loon’ (I kid you not). They are part of a’radical plan to expand global internet service. A floating mobile tower’. ABC via Google.

      ” Project Loon is a network of balloons carried by winds in the stratosphere, designed to extend internet access to rural and remote areas” (Mr Google).

      They and the movements of small aircraft are more obvious on FR at present, thanks to the lack of normal air travel.
      I hope to see the occasional A380 aloft before too much longer…fingers crossed, but not helped by Vic gov’t letting ‘protests’ run amok, etc, etc.

      90

  • #
    Rowjay

    1. Are grid scale renewables being set up to fail in Eastern Australia by those most wanting them to succeed?

    2. Through their best intentions, are they damaging their cause by ignoring the actual performance data available on the web for these renewables under east coast weather patterns?

    3. Through the development of grid scale solar without battery backup, are they transferring the night time overproduction from “dinosaur” base load coal plants to “tyrannosaurus rex” solar overproduction during daylight hours?

    4. Are they pushing for the development of complex “demand side management” systems to cope with the variable but outputs from wind turbines without battery backup, thinking this will solve the supply problem?

    5. Are they succeeding in reducing the CO2 emissions from ageing coal plants by replacing them with modern gas-fired plants with outputs equivalent to all of our installed wind capacity plants that have no battery backup when the east coast has no wind?

    Just thinking…..

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    • #
      Chad

      Rowjay,
      “Grid scale solar solar” is not the big problem for utilities to deal with, .
      No state has a significNt proportion of its grid generation coming from “grid scale” solar farms.
      The real problem and much bigger influence in all states is Roof Top Solar which hugely suppresses the demand on all grid supply for a few hours each day….and potentially fail with a change in the weather, causing massive unpredictable demand surges.

      70

    • #
      yarpos

      No competent authority has control over development of the entire system. State governments are politically driven naturally, AEMO only operates what it is given, individual project owners are only interested in the viability of their own projects. A mish mash of independent projects skewed by agendas and politics is very unlikely to result in a viable grid. It seems each grouping has to go to or over the brink to realise and then apply expensive band aids as per Sth Australia.

      30

  • #
    RicDre

    California Will Use Diesel This Summer to Help Keep Lights On

    In a hilarious bit of irony:

    California will allow PG&E Corp. to use diesel-powered mobile generators to keep some electricity flowing when the utility proactively cuts power to prevent live wires from sparking fires in high wind.

    https://wattsupwiththat.com/2020/06/13/california-will-use-diesel-this-summer-to-help-keep-lights-on/

    40

    • #
      Analitik

      “450 megawatts of diesel generation” is pretty substantial

      The best part is

      PG&E said it considered more environmentally-friendly options but they proved too costly or impractical to deploy in time this year

      and probably for any year in the foreseeable future (as opposed to the pie-in-the-sky scenario painted by renewables advocates).

      Nice to see Victoriastan led the way on this with the emergency measures implemented by Red Dan for the Mornington Peninsula in 2018 http://www.mpnews.com.au/2018/10/01/diesel-back-up-on-power-cut-days/

      30

  • #
    Another Ian

    Re trade and China

    “In other news, saw a clip where India has cut a deal to buy Australian barley! Remember that discussion of fungible commodities? Well, it’s happening!”

    https://chiefio.wordpress.com/2020/06/11/friends-of-australia-friday-tipple-report/

    40

    • #
      beowulf

      Yeah, don’t get too excited.

      India has a relatively small brewing industry and has only signed up to take 500,000 tonnes. China was taking from memory 8 million tonnes of our barley – so India will take up 6.25% of the slack. Sales to India are also not expected to reach even 1 million tonnes for several more years. There’s gonna be a lot of cheap barley sloshing around.

      Too late if you’ve already sown barley this autumn, but I doubt there’ll be much barley going in next year.

      Incidentally the Chinese brewers are none too happy about losing Oz barley because it is WAY better for malting than the alternatives.

      80

      • #
        Bill In Oz

        I think we might see a lot of barley farmers making barley hay from some of their crops.
        The hay will store on farm for years
        Until the next big dry when hay will be at a premium.
        And if Coopers here in Adelaide have any brains they will buy up
        The surplus barley and make beer with it to export to China.
        Even when a Chinese bloke’s got a thirst, they need a good beer !
        🙂

        25

        • #
          PeterW

          A lot of it will go into the feed market. Stock feed, tgat is.

          20

          • #
            Bill In Oz

            Yes Peter that is true unfortunately.
            But there is good money to be made selling hay for export to the Middle East.
            Or as I wrote before Coopers or the other breweries here in Oz
            Can buy lots of barley to make great tasting uncontaminated beer for export to China.
            Why even the Chinese breweries would be pleased to be able to sell such a premium product to their customers.
            Free enterprise at work over coming the CCP’s dopiness !

            12

    • #
      yarpos

      Nice to see some good news. Having gained that market I hope they can gain others. I doubt the is a silver bullet answer and given the China experience do they really want that one big customer who can just dissapear?

      40

  • #
    ianl

    https://quadrant.org.au/opinion/qed/2020/06/our-covid-response-bordering-on-incompetence/

    And how is covering this up, or ignoring it as this website did, different in kind from the antics of the climate activists ?

    32

  • #
    RicDre

    Who’s to blame? These three scientists are at the heart of the Surgisphere COVID-19 scandal

    Congratulations to ScienceMag

    Instead of covering this up or ignoring until people forget, they’re actually running an article exposing the story behind the bizarre rushed studies and subsequent retractions. And they even call it a scandal.

    https://wattsupwiththat.com/2020/06/13/whos-to-blame-these-three-scientists-are-at-the-heart-of-the-surgisphere-covid-19-scandal/

    50

  • #
    Robber

    Indigenous deaths in custody: 25 years since the Royal Commission into Aboriginal Deaths in Custody”.
    Strategies implemented after the 1990 commission have been reasonably successful – parity with deaths rates of non- indigenous incarcerated is surprising. As is the observation that most (~ 60+ %) deaths in custody are due to natural causes or self-harm. There is little evidence that physical intervention by custodians in those deaths is so rampant as to warrant knee jerk reactions being demanded by protesters.

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    • #
      yarpos

      Each year the number of non indigenous people who die in custody is 4 to 5 times the number of indigenous deaths. Nobody seems to be stressed about the others. Seems to me that regardless of who you are the best idea is to adjust your behaviour so you dont end up in custody at all. The number of people who never experience police/prison custody is really quite high, so you have to think its quite doable.

      140

      • #
        Richard Ilfeld

        Surprise! SO true. But if your were in the US, you just lost your situation for saying the unsayable.

        40

      • #
        Analitik

        the best idea is to adjust your behaviour so you dont end up in custody at all

        Exactly. By continually playing the victim card, those indigenous people end up “victimised”

        60

  • #
    Another Ian

    Got a cartoon without links unfortunately.

    Over a background of sunrise over the Pyramids is a captiom

    “Just going out to knock down the Pyramids because the Egyptians had slaves 5000 years ago”

    And while we’re on that subject

    “The Guardian supported slavery”

    https://catallaxyfiles.com/2020/06/10/the-guardian-supported-slavery/

    60

  • #

    So, you know when those large coal fired Units go offline and it’s a loss of around 500MW, (plus, sometimes, just for one Unit) and those renewables supporters seize upon it as an indicator of the total unreliablity of coal fired power. It doesn’t even matter to them that in most of those cases, it’s just for scheduled maintenance, as to them it’s a sign of how they are just plain ‘no good’ for reliable power.

    Okay, would you perhaps think that something similar might happen with wind power?

    Make it like an equivalence basis, you know, a similar sized loss of power to one of those coal fired Units, say 500MW plus.

    Then make it over a short time, and here, those sudden losses can be spread across an hour, or two, as it’s still pretty much a large loss of power over time that causes grid operators to scramble around quickly looking for replacement power on that large scale.

    Then, what about the case where there is a long steady loss of power, over a number of hours, that also has to be covered as well.

    In the case of wind power, it’s never a scheduled off line event for maintenance, something that is covered for. This, with wind power, is just an outright loss of power, that, just like when those coal fired Units go off line, the loss of power has to be made up from Hydro and Natural Gas fired power.

    Do you think something like this could actually be happening?

    How often do you think it might happen if it does? Would it be a rare thing?

    Say, you know like those coal fired Units, 500MW PLUS. (a) In less than an hour, (b) in around an hour, (c) between one and three hours, and (d) long term losses.

    What would be your guesses if something like this happened?

    It might only be a recent thing, you know, only noticeable because Nameplate for wind has risen to a large level, now 7728MW.

    So, let’s go back TWO FULL YEARS, and try and look to see if has happened at all, and you know, 500MW is a pretty large whack of power isn’t it.

    Guesses anyone?

    Be aware that I actually know now.

    Also, while I was doing that task, I also noted the maximum power generation wind power rose to, you, the highest it has ever been. Wind now has a maximum Nameplate of 7728MW The highest it has ever been is 4900MW. That was on May 1st this year when wind had a Nameplate of 6960MW, so that’s at a CF of 70%, and keep in mind, that is just for one five minute point in time reading.

    Tony.

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    • #
      Chad

      Tony,
      Along similar lines, did something odd happen to the SA generators at midnight ? Or is there just a glitch in the NEMlog chart..?
      http://nemlog.com.au/gen/region/#SA1

      30

      • #
        Bill In Oz

        Chad it looks like someone shut down the Diesel generators
        At the former GM car plant.
        And then turned them back on again.
        Very odd.
        Maybe they ran out of diesel ?

        23

        • #
          Chad

          Bill,..
          ..the Diesel genny’s were not operating at all !
          It looks like the Wind suddenly cut back from a variable 1700MW to1300MW,..but then staysed constant ??
          At the same time, Gas cut back to 200MW ..steady also.
          All very unusual
          Now it seems the charts have change again ???
          Non of it makes any sense.

          40

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            Chad

            It appears that AMEO have set steady limits of 1300MW max for wind + solar, and 250 MW minimum for gas ?

            00

    • #
      Robber

      What about solar, that switches off every night? In Qld at midday solar is sometimes providing over 30% of demand, forcing cutbacks in coal generators. And in SA, midday solar can deliver up to 40% of demand, other days less than 10%. Yet all these intermittents must be 100% backed up by reliable fossil fuels.
      Last Thursday in SA at 7pm, wind delivered just 15 MW, 0.6% of demand, from 2142 MW nameplate and the big battery delivered 25 MW. Gas provided 1744 MW, imports provided 634 MW.

      60

    • #

      No guesses, and I can understand that, because these occasions would be so few as to be all but inconsequential eh, so you’d have to look really hard to find any at all.

      In those last TWO Years, 750 days in all I have checked, and I have six weeks worth still to go, as I am doing it until the end of June.

      Short term, (a, b, and c I mentioned above) 180 plus occasions, and long term 130 plus occasions.

      And believe me when I say this, no one was more surprised than I was to see this, as that’s 310 separate occasions.

      (a) power loss of 500MW and more, in less than one hour – ranging from 500MW to 1280MW in times between 10 minutes and 55 Minutes.
      (b) power loss of 500MW and more, in one hour – ranging from 500MW to 1100MW
      (c) power loss of 500MW and more, in time frame more than one hour and up to 3 hours – 500MW to 1500MW
      (d) long term sustained and steady power loss, from four to 20 hours – 1200MW to 3400MW

      It absolutely astonishing to see so many power losses on a scale like this.

      If you want the definitive definition of unreliability, then this is it.

      It’s absolutely pitiful really.

      And we have spent countless BILLIONS of dollars on these patent failures.

      If ANYTHING at all performed as badly as this, someone would be asking some pretty stern questions.

      Tony.

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    dinn, rob

    worth a try tho everyone has different interests here. Sars-Cov-2 origin is the theme of this and the next link.
    https://balance10.blogspot.com/2020/06/birger-srensen-and-wang-yanyi-on-sars.html

    10

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  • #
    Dennis

    Antifa, Black Panthers and infiltration of the Social Democrats ….. anarchists:

    https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/41aXzpTRb2L._SX329_BO1,204,203,200_.jpg

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    dinn, rob

    and then after that
    6-13-20 The contract is for up to 400 million doses of the vaccine, developed by the University of Oxford, the company said, adding that it was looking to expand manufacturing of the vaccine, which it said it would provide for no profit during the pandemic.
    Deliveries will start by the end of 2020….
    t has agreed manufacturing deals globally to meet its target of producing 2 billion doses of the vaccine, including with two ventures backed by Bill Gates and a US$1.2 billion agreement with the US government. The deal will add a further 100 million doses to the 2 billion already committed by the group, an AstroZeneca spokesman said. https://www.straitstimes.com/world/europe/astrazeneca-agrees-to-supply-europe-with-400-million-doses-of-covid-19-vaccine

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      • #
        Bill In Oz

        Dear Farmer Braun !
        I looked at that link…The headline is :
        “60% Of People Naturally Resistant To SARS-COV2, New Study Reveals”

        So if true, that means that only 40% of the global population will ‘need’ the vaccine.
        That is only 2,800,000,000 people on the planet.
        However nobody quite knows which of the 2.8 billion out of the 7 billion alive
        Have this natural immunity.
        So best to make the vaccine available to everyone.
        I’m sure you agree with that logic.
        🙂

        06

        • #
          Orson

          I take EVERY study relying on antibodies with bags of salt skepticism. The predictive uncertainties vary a great deal, often amounting to 50%. This is worse than any macroeconomic uncertainty. Ergo, worthless coin toss,

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          • #
            farmerbraun

            I agree Orson but one could reasonably ask why a country such as NZ, which has reported no new cases for three weeks, and has finally introduced some sort of border control and quaratine , as well as smartening up the sanitary protocols for its LTCFs (where the only real risk lies), would need compulsory vaccination for the entire population.

            22

            • #
              Bill In Oz

              Compulsory effective safe vaccination will be compulsory
              For all inbound travellers arriving in New Zealand
              To protect all Kiwis – even you old mate.
              So you can continue to post your comments here.
              Imostly disagree with you
              But I have no desire to see you eliminated by the virus
              And thus be unable to contribute here.
              Now that a big benefit to you which you seem to be overlooking.
              🙂

              05

        • #
          farmerbraun

          The logic is fine Bill, but we are not talking polio or some other real nasty for which an effective and safe vaccine is available.
          Do you see the difference?
          I’ve never had a “flu” shot and likely never will; I prefer to deal with minor colds using my immune response -keeps the system trained.

          51

          • #
            Strop

            I don’t think flu shots would stop you from dealing with minor colds and keeping your immune system trained.
            The flu shot is not a cold prevention.

            As for keeping your immune system trained. That’s what a flu shot does …. if their is such a thing as keeping it trained.

            A flu shot is a dose of the dead flu virus. It’s dead so it can’t multiply in your body and make you sick if you have a poor immune system or other health issues. But your immune system detects the virus and it stimulates your immune system to produce flu antibodies and therefore naturally building up your own resistance to getting the flu.

            That’s my layman understanding. So, really, the flu shot does exactly what you’re trying to achieve.

            11

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          farmerbraun

          The problem with your argument there Bill is that you jumped from (40%) “can catch the virus” ,(distinct from the 60% who can’t ) to (40%) “need the vaccine “(your words) .
          I reckon that there would need to be some intermediate logical steps for that to be a logical necessity.

          21

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          Slithers

          The problem with that stance is that people with ‘Natural Immunity’ may well have an adverse reaction to the vaccine! It is a well known fact that 2ndary infections of some diseases are far worse than the first infection. Check out why Bill Gates was sent packing from India with his live virus polio vaccine!
          Lots of children maimed for life!

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      Orson

      Yes! This is very good news. In addition to the Oxford group’s vaccine effort, the Trump led effort called Operation Warp Speed has three US based teams trying to fast track vaccines for at least health care workers by September. Then there’s a Chinese vaccine, a German one, and a French led one. Anybody else?

      Altogether, this is quite impressive, if not heroic. But Oxford is possibly on the inside track.

      But even $100 billions now is small compared with the trillions in economic damages wrought by the virus.
      We may fear the virus less, today. Still, I say Godspeed!

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        Slithers

        Who would want to be in the Chinese Military where volunteers are undergoing field trials of various untested vaccines?
        /sarc off

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        yarpos

        I wonder what the market would be a for a Chinese vaccine outside China?

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    PeterS

    Civil violence is entering the next phase. The far left who want to dismantle the Churchill statue in the UK were meat with resistance from the far right who want to protect the statue. It is time the police were told to enforce the law and arrest all those who are acting as anarchists trying to tear down our civilisation. If necessary send in the troops before it gets really bad and people start killing each other. This is what happens when we have no rule for an angry mob and the rule of law is only applied to everyone else. Eventually some will rise up to take matter into their own hands, which although is not good is to be expected and in inevitable. Clearly it is better to put a stop to it before it goes any further. The far left have already stepped over the mark days ago by defacing and destroying statues yet nothing is done about it. It sends the message they have permission to continue the anarchy. If that’s not the wrong message then nothing is and let the anarchy continue to the ultimate end; civil war.

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    el gordo

    The Beijing model, round up the leaders and charge them with malicious damage.

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    • #
      PeterS

      Yes, that would be nice but those seen perpetrating the violence in full view of the public should not be left untouched otherwise it would set the signal that law and order doesn’t apply to them and will entice them to spread of the anarchy. It has to stop.

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    Orson

    Covid19 virus spiking in US? But the death rates keep falling? How can this be?

    One explanation is that with lockdowns over, pent-up demand for elective surgery is seeing more hospital beds used and catching more cases of infection, otherwise lost before wide available testing. Another is that possibly improved treatment of the virus now results in fewer deaths, overall. Yet another – although I think least likely, at this point – is that the virus is now less lethal. Tough to know at this point, however much wished. More
    https://justthenews.com/politics-policy/coronavirus/fears-mount-over-covid-spikes-data-continue-show-positive-downward

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    • #
      PeterW

      May have something to do with idiot Governors not forcing nursing homes filled with the most vulnerable, to accept infectious patients.

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  • #
    MrGrimNasty

    Could the stupidity of lockdowns, and BLM willfully ignoring real problems to fight imagined ones, be more laid bare in one article?

    https://fee.org/articles/covid-19-lockdowns-in-africa-have-been-deadlier-than-the-disease/

    And so it begins, loss of food production, food price inflation, loss of jobs and income – thanks to the lockdown strategy – could harm/kill millions.

    https://www.theguardian.com/society/2020/jun/09/world-faces-worst-food-crisis-50-years-un-coronavirus

    But some people believe giving a 94 year old with Alzheimer’s and other terminal health issues an extra 30 days of life is a price worth paying.

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    el gordo

    The new Beijing cluster had its epicentre at a food market, where even the wooden boards for cutting up salmon was infected.

    https://www.scmp.com/news/china/society/article/3088989/coronavirus-beijing-reports-36-new-local-cases-all-links-xinfadi

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    Slithers

    Sixty years or so ago I was in the last batch of Conscripts in the UK.
    Whilst in ‘The Mob’ there were various punishments for miss-demeanours, but more sever punishment for ‘Self-Inflicted Injury’, to be bought up on such a charge if you tried to defend against the expected punishment it could end up with a ‘Courts Marshal’ and prison time, there was little chance of being found ‘Not Guilty’.
    IMHO sheeple who attend protest rallies and who subsequently contract COVID-19 are guilty of ‘Self-Inflicted Injury’ so why should the rest of us have to pay their medical bills?
    I will defend their right to protest, but not condone their stupid behaviour.

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    Slithers

    Poor suffering Brits.
    https://www.theguardian.com/business/2020/apr/28/britain-breaks-record-for-coal-free-power-generation
    They don’t use cheap coal to produce electricity in their own power stations, they buy expensive electricity from across the channel. The cost difference is born by the un-suspecting British public.
    Great win for electricity produces on the continent who can therefore keep their coal fired generating plants fully operational.
    Never mind the transmission power loss, it keeps the lights on and No Coal was used!
    Hahaha.

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    Another Ian

    More gardening needed

    “Poll: 79 Percent of Truckers Say They Won’t Deliver to Cities with Defunded Police Departments”

    https://www.breitbart.com/crime/2020/06/14/poll-79-percent-truckers-wont-deliver-cities-defunded-police-departments/

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    skeptikal

    It’s funny to see the left-wing Grauniad getting upset at the left-wing Facebook for blocking and banning users trying to share one of it’s articles.

    Facebook blocks and bans users for sharing Guardian article showing Aboriginal men in chains

    As Greta would say…. How dare you?

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    el gordo

    The Spanish Influenza didn’t start in Kansas, patient zero is a fabrication.

    http://spanishfluvictoriabc.com/spanish-flu-origin-spread-character/how-did-the-patient-zero-story-begin/

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