JoNova

A science presenter, writer, speaker & former TV host; author of The Skeptic's Handbook (over 200,000 copies distributed & available in 15 languages).


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Thursday Open Thread

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8.4 out of 10 based on 11 ratings

109 comments to Thursday Open Thread

  • #
    JanEarth

    An interesting video

    COVID-19 in China, South-Korea, Taiwan and Japan

    This is a DW doco and very well done. It examines the different approaches that these East Asian countries have taken to overcome a mass outbreak to this pandemic. After watching this I actually believe that the Chinese figures we have been provided are pretty accurate. Also interesting is the contrasting approaches that Japan and Taiwan have taken. I have mentioned it before but Taiwan did not have a lock down and life continued almost as before (apart from the testing)

    This is well worth a watch people.

    Deutsche Welle or DW is a German public international broadcaster. The service is available in 30 languages. DW’s satellite television service consists of channels in English, German, Spanish, and Arabic. While funded by the German government, the work of DW is regulated by the Deutsche Welle Act, meaning that content is intended to be independent of government influence. DW is a member of the European Broadcasting Union (EBU).

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    • #
      Yalla-Y-Poora Kid

      DW is captured wholly by the green left movement. The green propaganda coming from their contributors is only able to be read by those with a strong constitution.

      Advise scepticism about all articles.

      110

      • #
        JanEarth

        Kid

        So what…Unlike you I am able to discern the difference between what is valuable information or what is not without having to self censor.

        I read the global times everyday but I hate the CCP. There are good reasons to seek news from as many sources as possible because if you dont you end up in a bubble.

        It’s a pity you missed it. It laid out the facts of each countries approach devoid of opinions. In short an informative documentary well worth watching.

        20

        • #
          Yalla-Y-Poora Kid

          Who said I didn’t watch it – I was referring to your promotion of DW as some reputable font of knowledge. They are a very biased news organisation is what I said. Along the lines of our ABC, BBC, CNN . . . .

          And I do look at them all (OK I have given up on CNN). I grew up with our ABC as the staple for our news coverage despite not agreeing with them on everything it was watchable. Now it is just so far from news it has become advocacy just the same as DW and the BBC and their ilk.

          Unfortunately one worthwhile program does not save their reputation.

          50

    • #
      Graeme#4

      Thanks for the video link Jan. Well worth watching. What struck me was the ready availability of masks and other protective devices. While hand sanitiser is now available in Australia, masks are a ridiculous price of $2 each, and wipes are virtually non-existent.

      50

  • #
    • #
      MP

      Sadly they blurt this stuff out, it appeases the pro coal group while achieving nothing. they will say it again in 12 months, they may get us to fund a study for millions that won’t be completed until after the next election, then it will be ignored.
      Nothing changes, everything stays the same.

      31

  • #
  • #
    Leo Morgan

    Given that many smart people used to be in trivia teams, and Jo Nova’s blog has many smart readers, there may be many people here missing their ‘pub trivia’ fix.
    I knew I would, so I partnered with my favourite quizmaster to create an online trivia competition. I’m really proud of what we’ve created, and invite you to play live on Tuesday at 7:00 p.m. at facebook.com/quizzerofoz . You can have a look right now at previous week’s questions and answers to get some idea of what it’s like.
    Full disclosure, we ask players to contribute $3.00 to cover a part of the many hours that we put into this, and I might end up with one of your dollars. That will help create the incentive for me to keep doing this, and maybe I can even afford to buy Jo some chocolate!

    If you do like trivia, but aren’t keen on what we have to offer, check out Jimmy Carr’s “Little Quiz” on YouTube.

    And what have you been doing during the lockdown?

    815

    • #
      Leo Morgan

      I see that there are five “Thumbs down”.

      I presume that’s because people perceive that as being an advertisement? I feared that it might be taken that way, and dithered for some time before posting.
      I also emailed Jo to ask if she thought it would be okay.

      Nevertheless, the reason I posted despite that fear is because for trivia tragics like myself, it is useful and interesting information. And, as I said, I’m proud.

      49

    • #
      Ian Hill

      During the lockdown my son has been running an online quiz night for his friends. I said a good question would be “which petrol company put a tiger in your tank?”. He thought it was too esoteric, that no-one would know the answer. (They are not allowed to look it up). I agreed that no-one under 40 would know. I told him the answer and followed it up with “at which one did you stop for a Stanley?”

      40

      • #
        GD

        I remember those advertising slogans, but for the life of me can’t remember which companies they were for.

        So of course I searched and got Esso but couldn’t find the other one.

        40

        • #
          Ian Hill

          Correct GD. Someone will come up with the other answer.

          Another one, which petrol company said “methyl benzine” made the difference?

          20

          • #

            Bob Dyer had his BP Pick A Box TV quiz show, and was always plugging BP.

            So,BP is better petrol because it’s …..

            Tony.

            40

            • #
              Ian Hill

              Tony, I remember Pick A Box and its sponsor BP. I can’t recall the answer to the saying though.

              Other answers to wrap this up: Golden Fleece (Stop for a Stanley) and Shell (Methyl Benzine).

              There were many great advertisements for petrol – eg AMOCO.

              20

      • #
        Geoff Sherrington

        I forgot about the Tiger in the Tank, in favour of the Female Lion on the Back Seat. Geoff S

        40

      • #
        Geoff Sherrington

        I forgot about the Tiger in the Tank, in favour of the Female Lion on the Back Seat. Geoff S

        10

  • #
    Peter C

    The Latest on Hydroxychloroquine.

    After Donald Trump speculated that Hydroxychloroquine could be a game changer in the coronavirus pandemic; the MSM, Medical Societies and even Trump’s own medical advisor (Dr Fauci) have been at pains to belittle the drug and highlight any negative aspects such as cardiac side effects.

    The side effects may be but apparently only at quite high dose. Several doctors have been highly enthusiastic about the effectiveness of Hydroxychloroquine.

    According to this article on WUWT the drug is being widely used clinically and the treating doctors are claiming considerable benefit. A majority of doctors were in favour of using it;

    Hydroxychloroquine (HCQ) was accepted as a COVID-19 treatment by the medical community in the US and worldwide by early April. 67% of the US physicians said they would prescribe HCQ or chloroquine CQ for COVID-19 to a family member

    https://wattsupwiththat.com/2020/05/02/pseudo-science-behind-the-assault-on-hydroxychloroquine/

    The Queensland Government has banned the use of Hydroxychloroquine for Covid19 treatment except under clinical trials. In the mean time Clive Palmer has bought and donated 32M doses of Hydroxychloroquine for use in Australia. He seems to have spent an even larger amount his money telling us about it in full page advertisements in most of the daily papers.

    Derek Lowe writes a blog called “In the Pipeline” which reviews a lot of experimental treatments and he has written several times about Hydroxychloroquine. Mostly he has been cautious about the drug. In his latest update (4 May 2020) he mentions a new trial from Wuhan (China) which reports considerable benefit from Hydroxychloroquine in advanced cases requiring ventilators.
    https://blogs.sciencemag.org/pipeline/archives/2020/05/04/hydroxychloroquine-update-may-4

    Further trials are current including an Australian trial. I await the results.

    Several question to be answered are:
    1. Is hydroxychloroquine useful as a prophylactic drug against Covid19?
    2. Should it be used in conjunction with zinc?
    3. Is hydroxychloroquine more effective if used early in the disease, rather than when ventilation is required?

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    • #
      David-of-Cooyal-in-Oz

      G’day Peter,
      My answers to your 3 questions:
      1. Probably, and certainly worth a try;
      2. Definitely;
      3. Again, definitely,
      4, which you didn’t ask “What about vitamin D?” – definitely.
      The reference I’ll use for this is:

      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q7voUXgMCSs&feature=youtu.be

      in which Dr Ban provides depersonalised case histories of 21 patients with their regimes and timings.
      (51 mins in total, with the latter half covering the case studies.)
      Cheers
      Dave B

      100

      • #
        Sceptical Sam

        Orson posted an Italian article in last Friday’s Open Thread that had an interesting comment on the use of HCQ as a prophylactic:

        http://joannenova.com.au/2020/05/friday-open-thread-6/#comment-2321555

        I did a quick and dirty translation of some of it at the time. This is what it said:

        “Although there is still no Italian publication on the effectiveness of hydroxychloroquine as a ‘shield’ from the virus, many of the directors of the infectious diseases wards, the specialists, primary carers and general practitioners contacted during this research, admitted – whispered, with a wink – to the use of the drug as a ‘prophylaxis’, that is, to prevent contagion. Health workers who are in close contact with contagious patients, take the drug in advance, precisely to decrease the probability of contracting the infection.”

        It seems that the references to HCQ invariably leave out the benefits of increasing the Zinc intake at the same time. That’s what Didier Raoult does. It’s what Zev Zelenko does. And, it’s what Ban Truong does. They all get excellent result. Zelenko has his mortality rate is in the basement, at just 0.5%.

        90

  • #
    David Maddison

    Here’s another classic example of your taxes at work.

    This is about the Victoriastan brown coal to hydrogen project. $100 million of our taxes (half each state and feds) will go into this to use 160 tonnes of brown coal to produce a mere 3 tonnes of hydrogen….and 100 tonnes of “carbon emissions”.

    Insanity beyond belief.

    https://www.abc.net.au/news/2019-02-14/latrobe-valley-coal-to-hydrogen-project-approved/10812464

    Now, it requires 50kWh of electricity to produce one kg of hydrogen by electrolysis so 3 tonnes will need 150,000kWh. So even at Australia’s (almost) world’s most expensive electricity at, say, 30c per kWh the same job could be done for $45,000 worth of electricity, not $100 million.

    According to the website below hydrogen in California costs about US$14 per kg or about A$21 so 3000kg should cost $63,000. The Aussie taxpayer gets to pay $100 million.

    https://cafcp.org/content/cost-refill

    201

    • #
      Kalm Keith

      Appalling.
      And this is “government”?

      101

    • #
      Graeme No.3

      Right from the start I thought the project was nonsense. Not YET as expensive as Turnbull’s gift to the Friends of the Great Barrier Reef.

      60

    • #
      MP

      Don’t forget Snowy Hydro 2, $2 billion now blown out a bit to $12 billion I read, (?) to pump water up hill which takes about 25% more energy to move the same volume of water, it can’t even power itself , this actually makes sense to 90% of the population.
      Even with SH#1 they pump water up hill, they do this at night, off peak, using coal. (brown coal)

      Same Government doing this Wuflu response?

      Fool me once shame on you.

      50

    • #
      Geoff Sherrington

      Note that the hydrogen and Snowy hydro plans are being pushed by Chief Scientist Frankel. If you read his public statements, it is easy to deduce that he is almost fanatically hooked on global warming and sees projects like these as answers to “If not fossil fuels, then what?”
      Unfortunately, it is hard to find evidence of deep scholarship by him. Like, I have spent many man-hours this week updating my essay that shows heatwaves in our Capital cities are not getting hotter, longer or more frequent to any general extent (occasional exceptions). This is direct opposite to officially accepted theory that the Chief Scientist pushes. I doubt he has studied the science in any meaningful depth like that, so he can’t discover important exceptions. He is not alone among the authorities on whom governments rely. Geoff S

      70

      • #
        MP

        Geoff, They all know its BS, they all play the game, push the narrative push the agenda.
        Your fighting the wrong fight with the right people, you are trying to prove something that does not exist, does not exist. Its doomed to fail just on that principle.
        These people cannot be defeated, because we are playing their game by their rules and they change the rules to suit the latest.

        Like SH#2, its going to consume power we do not have, they are literally telling Aus they have rewritten the first law of thermodynamics and can now create more from less, we believe them?
        We have absolute corruption at every level of government, world wide and in-front of our eyes.
        Turncoats $445 Mil, Chairman Morro’s $1 Bill to the REF and on and on.
        We had a climate change election and climate change lost, we did not even deviate from the path we voted against, we vote for who we are given to vote for, nothing changes.

        20

      • #
        Serp

        Finkel was the scientific person in Evan Thornley’s post Victorian MLC career at Better Place, an electric car subsidy harvesting enterprise which did well in Denmark until the government turned off the green subsidy taps. Being abreast of the climate shtick he was a natural pick for Turnbull’s chief scientist. It’s a measure of the persistence of climatism in this country that he is still in place shilling for merchant bankers.

        30

  • #
    David Maddison

    Here we go again… The solar power tower in SA was a complete failure so why not repeat the experiment?

    QUOTE
    The Palaszczuk Government has announced a major boost for regional renewable energy jobs with work to start in July on Australia’s biggest solar farm on the Western Downs.

    Premier Annastacia Palaszczuk said publicly-owned renewable generator CleanCo had given certainty to Australia’s largest solar farm to be built near Chinchilla, creating up to 400 jobs and 400MW of renewable energy.
    END QUOTE

    https://www.blowthetruth.com/palaszczuk-government-has-announced-australias-biggest-solar-farm-on-the-western-downs/

    180

    • #
      David Maddison

      Note: The picture on the link shows a solar power tower but I am now not sure if tyat picture represents the actual project or not.

      90

    • #
      Kalm Keith

      We hoped that as consolation for the damaging Kurve Krushing lockdown, we would come out on the other side with a more aware perspective.

      No, it’s obvious that every step of progress has to be fought for.

      We are Slaves. We are junk.
      We are Stupid Maniluable Human Trash.

      That’s how all politicians see us?

      I find this revolting.

      KK

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    • #
      Graeme No.3

      If at first you fail, then fail, fail again – so long as the subsidies keep going.

      And KK the difference is that we went from a looney in charge of electricity to a super looney who wants to reduce SA to 100% renewables by 2030.
      Ah! the clean air everywhere, with only the chug, chug of diesel generators to disturb the peace.

      80

      • #
        David Maddison

        If the lunatic wants to be 100% renewable it must be without interconnectors to other states just to prove it. Any surplus can be stored in giant batteries or Tesla power walls in all homes.

        40

      • #
        Kalm Keith

        And what drives this need for “Green Power”, is it some sort of “inducement” that the voting public don’t get to share in.

        At the moment politics makes me sick.

        30

  • #
    David Maddison

    How predictable. We were freezing in most of Australia but the BoM managed to claim April 2020 was the fifth hottest, eeevvveeerrr.

    http://www.bom.gov.au/climate/current/month/aus/summary.shtml

    180

    • #
      TdeF

      A lifetime in Melbourne and the last ten years have been the coldest summers I can remember. They almost didn’t exist. I remember when I was angry for years that children were sent to school at the start of February because it was incredibly hot. Now it doesn’t matter. I remember when 27 days in January were over 30C, but now it reversed. A day over 30C is the rarity.

      Global Warming must be very selective. It keeps away from thermometers. But there is nothing adjusting the data cannot do.

      180

    • #
      RicDre

      “We were freezing in most of Australia…”

      We’ve got a polar vortex slipping down through Canada to to the Middle and Eastern part of the US next week and according to the Weather Channel, there is a good possibility of record cold temperatures being set throughout that area.

      40

  • #
    David Maddison

    No surprise here. Handling cryogens like LH2 is never easy (or high pressure H2 or H2 dissolved in ammonia). Had Green Labor won the last election they would have committed Australia to yet another losing path.

    QUOTE
    Daimler’s Mercedes-Benz is killing its program to develop passenger cars powered by hydrogen fuel cells. The company has been working on fuel-cell vehicles for more than 30 years — chasing the dream of a zero-emissions car that has a long driving range, three-minute fill-ups, and emits only water vapor. In the end, the company conceded that building hydrogen cars was too costly, about double the expense of an equivalent battery-electric vehicle.
    END QUOTE

    https://electrek.co/2020/04/22/daimler-ends-hydrogen-car-development-because-its-too-costly/

    110

    • #
      toorightmate

      Second try here at offering a comment, but I think I may now be persona non grata on this site.
      Getting gas from brown coal was well tested at bench scale 30 years ago and exhaustively tested in a large scale pilot plant 25 years ago.
      It was a joint Japan Australia initiative.
      The results established that it was a “nogo” – not even worthy of the starting blocks.
      Having said that, it probably made a bit more sense than the ludicrous efforts at wind and energy power which we so enthusiastically subsidise to the hilt these days.

      100

      • #
        MP

        Was That the Brown Coal Liquefaction Victoria(BCLV) project. I worked with some people from that project after it had folded.
        I am sure they were producing hydrocarbon fuels not Hydrogen. This was back in the mid 80’s and it was at the time a net loss but the technology was proven and the Japs offered it to the Aus Gov which rejected it.
        In the day it was cost prohibitive, now a days?

        30

    • #
      RicDre

      “… chasing the dream of a zero-emissions car … and emits only water vapor …”

      But how can it be zero emission if it emits water vapor? And isn’t water vapor a much worse greenhouse gas than CO2?

      150

      • #
        Serp

        What none of the hydrogen fuel proponents mention is that its combustion is accompanied by the generation of various noxious nitrogen oxides; there’s never a free green lunch apparently.

        50

        • #
          Chad

          Serp,
          They are careful to suggest that all this green Hydrogen is for use in fuel cells, where the only byproduct is water.
          Of course it could be used to fuel conventional combustion engines,..a much more practical and realistic transport solution as nearly all ICE engines can be converted to run on H2 with very low emissions (zero CO2 infact !)
          But that simple, quick and easy answer to the percieved CO2 issue is not acceptable for some reason .?.

          20

  • #
    David Maddison

    Notice how all those big names that promote the global warming lie live near the sea? Gore, Obama, Gates, Turnbull, Flannery.

    140

    • #
      TdeF

      Really, anyone who says they believe in rapid sea rise after 32 years of nothing is clearly ly*ng. That raises the question of why. Each has the same answer.

      140

      • #
        TdeF

        And the big lie is that a CO2 increase causes Global Warming, which is almost absurd scientifically. However a slight warming does increase CO2 because it’s all dissolved in the ocean. Everyone agrees with 50x as much in the ocean as in the air.

        So why? Same answer.

        160

        • #
          David-of-Cooyal-in-Oz

          G’day TdeF,
          I’m curious. Why did you include the word “almost” in your first sentence?
          Cheers
          Dave B

          40

  • #
    cedarhill

    In the US, the news media doesn’t report news but has shifted, over the years, to producing historic fiction. James O’Keefe has made a career covering this. For CV-19, he has this from yesterday:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oQWRCECbN-Y&feature=youtu.be

    This is an example of why used car salespersons are more trusted than the US news media.

    61

  • #
    James Murphy

    Clean green Hydrogen and 15GW of electricity for only $22 Billion, sounds like a bargain to me… Good work WA!

    https://www.energynewsbulletin.net/new-energy/news/1386151/world’s-biggest-green-energy-hub-approved-for-western-australia

    70

    • #
      Graeme#4

      As long as the taxpayer is not asked to fork out for this boondoggle, they can go ahead as it’s not for WA energy.
      Interesting to note that at first they claimed the power was only for Singapore, despite having to run the undersea cable in Indonesian waters. Now they claim that it’s also for Indonesia.
      And as yet there is no indication that either country wants this power.

      10

  • #
    Richard Ilfeld

    Mr. or Ms. Political type, have two critical questions for you.

    When you made the choice for us to change life as we know it to “flatten the curve”, did you change the Total area under the curve, and if not,
    what are the implications going forward?

    If we have to make changes; if life as we know it will not be the same and we will have to make sacrifices going forward, do you envision that government
    will share in those sacrifices? How do you expect the conduct of government to change going forward?

    111

    • #
      GD

      do you envision that government
      will share in those sacrifices? How do you expect the conduct of government to change going forward?

      The answer to that, no matter which government you are talking about, is not one iota.

      Or as ‘Eliza Doolittle’ in ‘My Fair Lady’ said, ‘Not a brass farthing!’

      (I watched it again the other night, and that stuck in my head.)

      61

    • #
      MP

      Two weeks and the carrot, flatten the curve. What week is it now, Carrot, smash the virus out of existence. We never seem to get the carrot.
      I actually had some comment the other day calling my a stance Pro-freedom movement. Think about that and the level of mental regression that statement takes.

      30

  • #
    Bill In Oz

    ““We have to be warriors,” Trump told Fox News. When asked if Americans should expect additional deaths as the country looks to reopen. “We can’t keep our country closed for years.”

    Curious though, he’s going to send the Aged, the Sick, the Infirm & the Black into this battle.

    I am appalled !

    But from the reasonable safety of Australia I will watch this Mad Hatter’s Tea Party as it develops.

    Also some interesting ‘models’ of how this virus will kill. in the USA. ( I do hate these models. Give me the facts & I cam do the rest myself. )

    https://www.news.com.au/world/north-america/coronavirus-us-three-scenario-predictions-reveal-disastrous-outcome/news-story/e929e2c6ff0ae78fea69a8cf895ee108

    312

    • #
      TdeF

      Social distancing, masks, isolation and frequent handwashing will limit the speed of infection but not stop it. It means that people older than 50 will have to hide from the public until an innoculation is available. Or the world’s biggest economy will grind to a halt. Given the enormous viral load from millions of infected Chinese visitors even after the ban, they have little choice. We can only hope that an extra hot summer reduces the spread. Thanks to Global Warming, our saviour.

      112

      • #
        Bill In Oz

        TdeF, the aged, the sick and the infirm
        Cannot hide from this virus.
        The aged there as here in Oz, live in aged care centers
        Staffed by younger folk -again mostly migrant casuals on low pay rates.
        Newmarch in Western Sydney shows what can happen when one infected person works there.

        PS by the way, this Spring in many parts of North America has been cool
        No global warming at all
        Check Electroverse’s web site

        47

    • #
      RicDre

      Bill in Oz: What would you suggest President Trump do instead of what he announced?

      Also, what is your evaluation of the conclusions in the link below:

      Anxiety From Reactions to Covid-19 Will Destroy At Least Seven Times More Years of Life Than Can Be Saved by Lockdowns

      https://wattsupwiththat.com/2020/05/07/anxiety-from-reactions-to-covid-19-will-destroy-at-least-seven-times-more-years-of-life-than-can-be-saved-by-lockdowns/

      80

      • #
        Bill In Oz

        Being clear & consistent for a start would be an improvement
        But it’s not just Trump
        The way your political system is set up
        This pandemic disease has become a major political battleground.
        Between the parties and between the Governors and between the various branches of the Federal government
        That’s a Mad Hatter Tea party !
        I do not respect that Ric.
        I’m glad I’m here in Oz

        17

        • #
          RicDre

          “This pandemic disease has become a major political battleground.”

          A valid criticism, though I think it has less to do with how the political system is set up then with the people that populate the political system and the voters who choose them, something we have in common with many other countries. At least the current administration is trying to change the government’s direction, even if it is being done haphazardly. I respect that much more than if we had a government whose parties were indistinguishable and no matter which you chose you will be led down the road to perdition.

          71

  • #
    Bill In Oz

    And here is an interesting positive American perspective
    On New Zealand in this disease crisis :
    https://www.worldhealth.net/news/has-new-zealand-effectively-eliminated-covid-19/

    15

    • #
      RicDre

      Bill in Oz:

      Both Australia and New Zealand have done a great job in handling the Coranavirus pandemic. Do you think their approach to the pandemic is a one-size-fits-all solution that could have been used by all countries regardless of their size, connections to the outside world or their population densities?

      61

      • #
        Bill In Oz

        No I do not.
        Taiwan pioneered an effective approach
        South Korea ditto
        Pacific Island countries just closed the borders full stop before the virus got there.
        Cuba has pioneered it’s own approach which works by doing a complete door to door visit by 20,000 nurses and doctors to EVERY home on the island.
        ( And offered 1500 medical staff/nurses for free to the USA to help in places like New York. The offer was ignored ! )
        Norway seems to have this virus in hand & Finland & Denmark
        But the USA ?
        Not at all..

        Nuts !

        29

        • #
          RicDre

          “But the USA ? Not at all..”

          It depends where you live in the US. The High-density cities in the US are not doing well, but most of them were not doing well before the coronavirus pandemic, so that is not a surprise. Outside of those cities, the impact has been much less.

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        • #
          GD

          Taiwan is tiny, South Korea is tiny, the Pacific Islands are tiny, Cuba is tiny.
          Ditto Norway, Denmark, and Finland.

          It was very easy for those countries to close their borders.

          To his credit, Trump reacted early by closing entry to the US from China. However, that wasn’t enough.

          The USA has approximately 153 international airports. The USA comprises fifty states, many the size of the countries listed above. Each state has a governor, each with their own ideas on how to react to COVID-19. For instance, New York Governor Andrew Cuomo was at odds with New York Mayor Bill de Blasio on his proposal to effectively shut the city down to stop the spread of the coronavirus. Cuomo told people to go out to restaurants and bars.

          This dichotomy of action/inaction was occurring across the nation. Meanwhile, people were pouring in through the myriad international airports.

          It’s not so easy to lock down a nation like the USA.

          91

          • #
            MP

            Didn’t he order elderly patients be sent from hospitals to aged care facilities, which started the murder of the elderly in the aged care facilities. When we already had evidence from all over the world that this was the exact opposite of what was required.

            This is not stupid at work

            11

            • #
              Bill In Oz

              Who ?
              Where ?

              Boris ? UK ?
              Not sure. He was sick with this virus for three weeks. But certainly this was happening in the UK in mid April. Dr Malcolm Kendrick did a scathing post about it then.

              More dingbat stuff !

              13

  • #
    cedarhill

    An old adage: Your heart is where your money is. And there certainly is lots and lots of money centered around NIH/NIAID and billionaires…

    Is there a conflict with NIH (NIAID) and the Bill and Melinda Gates Foundation? I sure has the appearance given they have multiple million dollar joint efforts. See below for details.

    Last I checked, there are over 70 companies world wide (not counting the Chinese) that are developing vaccines for COVID-19. There is the obvious rush to accelerate testing trials. The Moderna trial(s) have been pushed through NIH at near light speed and is the first to pass not only Phase I but now has approval for Phase II trials (with 600 subjects). The phase I trial (below) results hasn’t been posted at Pubmed or on the web (as of today).

    So we have a “novel” mRNA vaccine rushing through tests where the researchers/creators are the same people that are the gatekeepers (agencies/cabinet) in the US Government.

    Curious?
    Follow the money?

    links and bullets:

    https://www.cnbc.com/2020/05/07/fda-approves-moderna-vaccine-candidate-for-phase-2-study.html

    Note under the Baye-Dole act, the individual researchers own whatever can be patented for their work regardless of funding or employment. The key points in the first article are:

    shares up more than 12%
    The potential vaccine, which was developed by researchers at Moderna and the National Institutes of Health, became the first candidate to enter a phase 1 human trial in March.joint research with NIH,
    specifically with the US National Institute of Allergy and Infectious Diseases (NIAID), which Dr. Fauci heads.
    it expects “a close matching of expenses and reimbursements for those expenses” from its award by the Biomedical Advanced Research and Development Authority (BARDA) . See this link where they got 483 million from BARDA, a part of the US Health and Human Services (HHS) cabinet (NIH is also part of HHS): https://www.cnbc.com/2020/04/17/moderna-soars-on-483-million-in-funding-for-coronavirus-vaccine.html
    The trial was launched in “record speed,” White House health advisor Dr. Anthony Fauci said at the time.
    Last week
    Last week, Moderna announced a 10 year partnership with Swiss drugmaker Lonza to accelerate production of the experimental vaccine. . . hopes to begin manufacturing its potential vaccine “as early as July”.
    …the company hopes to be able to manufacture about 1 billion doses per year.
    The company said it has $1.7 billion in cash and investments and up to $700 million available in potential grants and awards.

    Other facts not in the

    Moderna collaborators at NIAID (Dr. Fauci’s group): https://www.nih.gov/news-events/news-releases/nih-clinical-trial-investigational-vaccine-covid-19-begins
    “Moderna Therapeutics said today it received an initial $20 million grant from the Bill & Melinda Gates Foundation to develop a new affordable combination of messenger RNA–based antibody therapeutics geared toward preventing HIV infection. https://www.genengnews.com/topics/omics/moderna-wins-initial-20m-grant-from-gates-foundation/
    The reseach with NIH is specifically with the US National Institute of Allergy and Infectious Diseases (NIAID), which Dr. Fauci heads.
    On December 11, 2019 NIH and the Bill and Melinda Gates Foundation held the fifth annual consultative workshop on global health. Many of the topics discussed were NIAID areas of interest. https://www.niaid.nih.gov/about/niaid-council-minutes-january-28-2019
    The NIH and the Bill and Melinda Gates Foundation are investing at least $200 million to develop accessible gene-based cures globally for sickle cell disease and HIV infection. Posing together on the morning of the announcement are (from left) National Heart, Lung, and Blood Institute Director Dr. Gary Gibbons, Gates Foundation President of Global Health Efforts Dr. Trevor Mundel, and NIH Director Dr. Francis Collins. https://www.niaid.nih.gov/about/niaid-council-minutes-january-28-2019
    New York, December 2, 2010 – The World Health Organization (WHO), UNICEF, the National Institute of Allergy and Infectious Diseases (NIAID) and the Bill & Melinda Gates Foundation have announced a collaboration to increase coordination across the international vaccine community and create a Global Vaccine Action Plan. https://www.who.int/immunization/newsroom/press/news_release_decade_vaccines/en/
    on twitter March 2017Bill Gates discounted any ill effects of vaccines
    @RealDonaldTrump confronted Bill Gates on the safety of vaccines when he was considering a safety commission headed by
    @RobertKennedyJr to look into the ill effects of vaccines. Gates said, “No, that’s a dead end. That would be a bad thing. Don’t do that.”
    Another 100 million dollar grant matching by NIH and Gates Foundation: https://www.ajmc.com/newsroom/nih-bill-and-melinda-gates-foundation-collaborate-to-develop-genebased-hiv-treatment
    Moderna has a long history of partnering with the Gates Foundation dating back to 2016: https://www.genengnews.com/topics/omics/moderna-wins-initial-20m-grant-from-gates-foundation/
    finally, an educational article (long) from Nature on mRNA: https://www.nature.com/articles/nrd.2017.243
    Under the Baye-Dole act, the individual researchers own whatever can be patented for their work regardless of funding or employment meaning employees of Dr. Fauci, maybe even Dr. Fauci, can patent and participate in the Moderna vaccine.

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    Steve S

    And I thought theUS had a lock on the “Archie Bunker” world view.

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    I think I posted this before, but just in case:
    Code Review of Ferguson’s Model:
    https://lockdownsceptics.org/code-review-of-fergusons-model/

    Unfortunately, criticisms of Neil Ferguson’s model have been overwhelmed by criticisms of his morality (and jokes like “he’s screwing with staats”).

    But the story of monolithic old code originating in Fortran is reminiscent of Climategate.

    Incidentally, it shows that Joanne Nova is not a kneejerk ‘denier’ – the ‘lockdownsceptics‘ site contains people who are sceptical about global warming too, but Joanne hasn’t followed them into opposition to the lockdown. Time will tell who’s right.

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    Ruairi

    In Tanzania, a lab got the boot,
    When a goat and a papaya fruit,
    Which technicians tested,
    Were Corona infested,
    Must be causing a COVID-test hoot.
    (Reuters)

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    Another Ian

    “Anxiety From Reactions to Covid-19 Will Destroy At Least Seven Times More Years of Life Than Can Be Saved by Lockdowns”

    https://wattsupwiththat.com/2020/05/07/anxiety-from-reactions-to-covid-19-will-destroy-at-least-seven-times-more-years-of-life-than-can-be-saved-by-lockdowns/

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    Ross

    A great write up of the terrible track record Professor Fergusson has achieved.

    http://www.snouts-in-the-trough.com/archives/27536

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    Another Ian

    A couple from Chiefio

    https://chiefio.wordpress.com/2020/04/23/w-o-o-d-22-april-2020/#comment-129418

    and the next one re flu vax and

    “UPDATE 3/19/2020: According to the chief medical officer for England, cited by news media publisher Mirror, Britons who received the influenza vaccine for this flu season were cautioned to self-isolate for 12 weeks as they fall into the government’s “high risk” category. “

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    Another Ian

    “Has Germany just blown up the Eurozone?”

    https://unherd.com/thepost/has-germany-just-blown-up-the-eurozone/

    Via Tip of the Spear

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    AndyG55

    WOW, Nino34 index crashes to ZERO

    https://www.tropicaltidbits.com/analysis/ocean/nino34.png

    I didn’t expect that until near the end of the year !

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    Another Ian

    ” “Predictive models” rarely are predictive”

    https://wattsupwiththat.com/2020/05/08/predictive-models-rarely-are-predictive/

    There is that J.R. Phillip quote on modelling which goes along the lines of:-

    “Modelling, like masturbation, in itself a harmless enough pastime is no substitute for the real thing”.

    Seems applied by Prof Pantsdown

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    cedarhill

    More treatments are rolling out. This one going to Phase II:

    https://www.jpost.com/health-science/israels-pluristem-fda-approved-for-study-in-treatment-of-severe-covid-19-627386

    and the earlier report here:

    https://www.jpost.com/health-science/israeli-covid-19-treatment-shows-100-percent-survival-rate-preliminary-data-624058

    Imho, better to have treatments that range above 80% than vaccines that only average 30% effective.

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      Bill In Oz

      Intravenous Vitamin C in high doses
      Stops the virus causing blood clots in the arterial system of COVID patients.

      Non under patent & thus extremely cheap.
      Stem cell therapy is enormously expensive.
      But does yield huge profits to the companies selling the technology.

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    CLINTEL says “Don’t fight nature, but adapt to it”
    By David Wojick
    https://www.cfact.org/2020/05/06/clintel-says-dont-fight-nature-but-adapt-to-it/

    Here is the beginning of the article:

    Over at Climate Depot, Marc Morano has been collecting foolish alarmist calls for using the economic crisis to further their goofy green deals. https://www.climatedepot.com/
    CLINTEL has issued a counter call, asking government to quit trying to stop naturally occurring events, like the emergence of a new virus, and climate change, especially so-called green deals.

    The format is a letter that will be sent to parliaments around the world, beginning with the Netherlands where CLINTEL is headquartered. The lead author of the letter is Professor Guus Berkhout, CLINTEL’s president. See https://clintel.org.

    Professor Berkhout puts it this way: “CLINTEL gives members of parliament a shot in the arm and offers them a spot on the horizon to get the economy back on its feet without utopian experiments.“

    The letter is titled “Don’t fight nature, but adapt to it” and the first paragraph is this:

    “After lifting the COVID-19 lockdowns, national parliaments must oppose the impracticable green agendas of supranational organizations to construct a utopian Earth. Instead of spending trillions of dollars on fighting the unpredictable changes caused by natural variability (‘autonomous changes’), parliaments should focus on adapting to those changes. Dear members of parliament, with all due respect, do not fight against climate change and virus outbreaks, but adapt to the consequences. The world must move from top-down mitigation to bottom-up adaptation.“

    Note that this does not mean do not fight the spread of new viruses. On the contrary the idea is to adapt to their existence by being prepared for them. The same is true for climate change, extreme events, sea level rise, etc., no matter how these things are caused.

    According to CLINTEL the primary obstacle to efficient adaptation is the pernicious influence of supranational organizations, wielding computer models and calling for unworkable technological fixes. Here is how the second paragraph describes this unhealthy political engineering:

    “Believing computer models is believing the makers

    Decisions about the comings and goings of society are increasingly taken by poorly informed politicians who have a rock-solid faith in the outcome of computer models and immature technologies. The belief that people can solve all problems with supercomputers – the ideology of constructing a utopian Earth – has grown strongly in recent years. By linking computer-controlled policies to supranational governance, experiments are started to engineer a ‘perfect’ society in which idealists believe all current global problems can be solved.

    But the reality is very different. The climate debate in recent years and the coronavirus chaos of today show that the prophesied blessings of a politically engineered world do not exist. We are collectively being pushed into the wrong direction. National parliaments have become puppets of the megalomaniacal supranational organizations, as created by the UN and the EU.”

    The rest of the CLINTEL open letter to parliaments is included, plus some observations on my part.

    Please share this.

    David

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    el gordo

    Mixed metaphor or something.

    “And so the question really is: why do so many people in government and so many people in politics – particularly in the Anglo sphere – not take the scientific evidence on climate change just as seriously?

    “When is physics going to mug political complacency and denialism? “

    Malcolm Turnbull

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