Kurri Kurri Aluminium Smelter,: gone , a victim of ridiculous electricity increases.
Tomago Aluminium, On the edge. Probably wont last.
Electric Arc steelmaking, been gone for decades.
Farming: Farmers are undecided which will cause their final collapse: no dams , water sequestration by green law, or high prohibitive electricity to pay to pump water.
Destruction of morale, destruction of incentive to risk, destruction of price competitiveness with other countries.
Destruction of schools, universities, car manufacturing.
Keith, the original ETS scheme which but for Barnaby Joyce would have been introduced by the Howard government with ALP support studiously refused to allow credits for the sequestration side of agriculture’s carbon cycle. They intended to tax agriculture’s recycled carbon on the same basis as fossil carbon.
This double or more taxation would have quickly bankrupted Australia’s grazing industries, and soon after all farming industry.
This would have enabled the government to transfer the 60% of Australia’s land area which is used for grazing into new ownership without compensating the existing owners.
Outraged opposition saw Agriculture put in the too hard basket, but the gross inequity of that plan was never acknowledged. Had the ALP won the 2013 election they would have been able to tack that provision onto their carbon tax.
As we see Oxford University again calling for curbs on farming activities, remember that it is not the “cows” that are worrying the Marxist scholars. It is the small business capitalists who own the cows that they are gunning for.
Governments play on the fact that very few voters are close enough to see the detail when these get rich quick schemes are created.
Thanks Ted for bringing to light another one. It’s unfortunate that these schemes are rarely understood by the population at large, and so they get away with it.
The thing that voters must come to terms with is that when governments are voted in they have access to the Treasury with most of their actions away from direct public scrutiny.
KK, add this to the list – using renewables “to power 80% of the market by 2030”.
Hmmm…..since we have very little renewables, 80% of very little is…..even less…..
Whihc means the market is small, coz we dont have much drawing power…..good bye economy,….
“Renewables heading for 80 per cent of electricity market by 2030, putting pressure on future funding: report”
“Renewable generation installation has accelerated to such an extent it is on track to provide almost 80 per cent of the electricity market by 2030, according to research from consultancy Green Energy Markets.
Key points:
* Rooftop solar installations are up 76pc on this time last year
* By end of the year rooftop solar capacity will exceed that of the closed Hazelwood power station
* Renewable financing faces big challenges from the likely collapse of power prices
GEM director Tristan Edis said the renewable energy industry has built itself up to such a significant scale that even 50 per cent by 2030, the renewables target being pursued by the Federal Labor Party, would involve a significant contraction in activity and employment in the industry.
“I think most of us had thought a while back that 50 per cent by 2030 would be a pretty massive task for the industry to scale-up to meet,” Mr Edis said.
“But given the spectacular level of construction and rooftop solar installation activity since 2017, the industry is now facing a rather massive contraction in activity and employment even if Labor is elected nationally.”
“In October, renewables were responsible for 22.5 per cent of electricity generation.
Sticking to the Coalition government’s current policy of reducing carbon dioxide emissions to 26 per cent below 2005 levels would slam the brakes on the sector.
On GEM’s figures, the amount of new renewable energy capacity required each year to achieve a 50 per cent target is around 1,850 megawatts.
Between January 2017 and October 2018 the rate of large-scale construction commitments and small-scale rooftop solar installations was 5,150 megawatts per year.
“The Coalition’s 2030 emissions target, as embodied within the proposed National Energy Guarantee, would involve a collapse to 839 megawatts per year,” Mr Edis said.”
No. Rooty Hill Sydney, Laverton Melbourne, Waratah, Newcastle are working Electric Arc Furnaces.
Port Kembla has two blast furnaces and Whyalla has one.
Whyalla survives as part of Liberty Steel but nearly closed. Bought by the Gupta family.
All are complaining about the soaring cost of electricity which will make them economically non viable, which is the whole intent of the Greens. About 24,000 people will lose their jobs and the flow on jobs in the communities and wages of $1.5Billion. All that means is that we have to import steel, like everything else. The money to do this comes from coal and gas, so it is quite idi*tic. World CO2 goes up, Australia goes down. That’s the EU/UN for you, an unholy combination of communists and capitalists attempting to control the world by making economies fail.
More than half Bluescope’s income is from the booming steel market in the US after Donald Trump’s steel duties, mainly on Canada and Mexico. China is only 3%. A technology invented in Whyalla and patented is making steel far cheaper, going straight from raw steel to sheet metal. This is shared between Nucor and Bluescope largely. Nucor is now the US’s biggest steel manufacturer and 75% of US steel is recycled. However it needs lots of electricity and as we know, the Australian government and the Greens are desperate to control electricity.
Thus the Renewable Energy(Electricity) Act of 2000 (known as the RET) which was the first and greatest attempt to seize Federal control of electricity and ripoff ordinary Australians to force the closure of coal, gas, oil and even diesel electricity. As far as I can calculate, the RET rips off $12Billion every year from the electricity bills of ordinary Australians and just gives (yes, gives) the money to windmill and solar companies.
They can’t close diesel generators as these are necessary to make renewables viable. e.g. Tasmania, South Australia, Victoria, England (the STOR scheme).
Yes, again idi*tic. As if diesels are Green and Coal is bad. In fact diesel air pollution is a real problem and coal air pollution is non existent. As for CO2, there is a trivial 20% reduction in CO2 per kwhr at enormous cost. Considering that China outputs more CO2 than the US and all of Europe combined, what does it matter? People breathing out in India produce more CO2 than Australia. Self harm, penance, the Middle Ages, superstition, coal is the devil.
Besides, we have no diesel. 7 days backup. Diesel submarine. Submarine factory running on diesel generators. SA government running on diesel. Tasmania running on diesel when the water runs out, $11Million a month. Then Canberra is running on wind and collecting $30Million a year in RET certificates earned on windmills paid for with our cash. All without taxation. Just theft compounding theft.
TdeF on a another site in reply, I stated I normally agreed with you but you are badly wrong about Diesel. Broken Hill (and its mines and surrounds) has been supplied for decades by electricity from the central power station using large diesel engines which actually use fuel oil. These engines do not produce significant NOX because they do not run at high temperature. It is also wrong to say smaller diesel engines in cars have more emission than petrol or LPG Otto cycle based engines. You have been drinking of the doped green juice containing lies regularly put out by Greens, Socialists and their alarmist supporters. Diesel for trucks, rail, utes, and SUVs will be around in Australia for at least the next 50 years until the time nuclear reactors can be made small enough and cheap enough. Small nuclear reactors have been put in space vehicles traveling to outer planets and even out of the solar system (A japanese space vehicle sent back signals after traveling 35 years to the edge of the solar system. Small nuclear reactors in submarines are already cheaper than diesel and battery power for electric drives. China and South Korea are doing research to make small modular nuclear reactors. South Korea have sold 4 small units to the UAE for two desalination plants.
Then explain the problem with Audi/Volkswagen and their faking of diesel results under load. This did not come from the Greens. They loved diesel. It is not just the higher temperature but the much higher compression characteristic of diesels. No spark needed.
“diesel engines typically run higher compression ratios, around 16-18:1, vs. gasoline engines, typically running 9-11:1. Diesel engines are also compression ignition, relying on the high temperature generated by compression to ignite the fuel, whereas the fuel in a gasoline engine is ignited by a spark.”
“While diesel engine exhaust has historically contained more NOx, advances in after treatment and regulations in recent years have greatly reduced the amount of NOx (and particulate matter) that come out of the tailpipe of the newer diesel engines.”
Basically the biggest recent invention was the Urea trap. “Urea SCR systems (2010) – a selective catalytic reduction system relying on urea/ammonia to convert NOx into N2”
Compression ratio isn’t the issue, it’s at high combustion temperature and pressure that the NOx is made. Petrol engines are generally considered “constant volume” combustion, with all fuel and air burning at TDC, pressure going up massively. Diesel engines are viewed as “constant volume” combustion with some fuel burning at TDC, but more being injected as the piston heads down the power stroke, keeping the pressure up. Both reach comparable peak pressures and temperatures. The diesels hold the peaks for a longer period during the cycle which, I guess, is why diesels might have a NOx problem.
The VW scandal wasn’t that they faked results, the results were real. It’s that they detected when they were under test and changed to less fuel efficient settings to pass the test. Deceptive, to be sure. In the alternative universe where VW didn’t do it, I wonder what percentage of their customers might have paid for this universe’s firmware which gave them better economy for a small boost in NOx emissions…
Like you, I don’t think the push against diesels is green driven, but then I don’t think the push for diesels was green driven either. It’s just another modern backflip. Sunlight, good or bad? Margerine back to butter. High carbs to high fat diet. “Desal is bottled electricity” to “Hope you like your new desal plant”. Etc.
They faked it. The software detected when a simulation test was underway and backed off to minimize emissions. Volkswagen admitted this. That is cheating.
The software noted the lack of turning of the steering wheel for example and the overall pattern of the test and adjusted the response to the throttle specifically to minimize emissions at the cost of performance. The reverse happens in real life.
Without this, the NO2 and particulate matter went well past the statutory limits when climbing or under acceleration, so the software faked the result to pass the test. Yes, the results were real, but they were fake. The diesels were not as clean as tested. It’s not what happens in real life with those specific diesel engines. People were fired. Those cars are now banned and fined from London to Paris. It is costing millions of people a lot of money. It is not a Green fraud. Soot and acid in the air are a real health problem in crowded European cities of 11 million people.
I think you get the same effect in VW/Audi cars if you do not do much for a long time and then want to accelerate quickly. They do nothing for a long time.
As for the Black smoke, that is the other problem with diesel, a problem which does not exist at all with lighter fractions. Plus higher levels of sulphur on the longer hydrocarbon chains.
I think it important to point out that Nitrous oxides are as dangerous as Sulphurous compounds like H2S but you cannot smell them. That does not mean they do not exist. The sulphur is rotten egg gas and turns into sulphuric acid in your lungs. It is deadly, but the nitric acid eats your lungs just as quickly and you cannot smell it.
However I remember the cities of Europe in winter, especially North of London. In the fog the dirt and the stench of diesel everywhere. Petrol cities were smell free, grime free. If Volkswagen had not faked the test and bothered to fix the problem as now, there would be millions fewer polluting cars on the road.
Man made CO2 levels, man made Global Warming, man made Climate Change and man made Storms are a Green political fantasy designed to destroy western democracies and give power to the United Nations who invented them. However dirty, smelly, dangerous diesel fumes are not a Green fantasy.
The fantasy was that diesel engines were clean, Green. Laughably while they use fewer litres per km, they produce more CO2 per litre than petrol. That is because as a higher, denser fraction, diesel has 10% more carbon, 10% more power per litre.
Like LP gas, when diesel was used exclusively for tractors and trucks and machinery and generators, diesel was not heavily taxed. Now it is increasingly more expensive, based on the power content and its popularity. That is a simple fact of greedy governments wanting $/km not $/litre. Government income must always go up, not down. Washington, London, Paris and Canberra will see to that.
Tdef and others ,Coal is for generating electricity, Diesel is for transport and remote area power generation but also handy for emergency power generation .
Gas is for cooking .
Tdef the way I read your first comment is basically just what I’ve put above but of course then there’s Nuclear and renewable but the latter is only good for small scale off grid applications imo.
TdeF I am not a mechanical engineer but I know and have experience in thermodynamics, heat & mass transfer and combustion. I also know a lot of chemistry including organic chemistry.
You are wrong about the comparison of NOx to SOx gases. NOx gases consist of N2O,NO and NO2. N2O is often called laughing gas. It is completely safe for humans. It has been used in whipped cream & soft icecreams. It has been used by dentists as an an anaesthetic. NO is the main gas formed in high temperature combustion. NO by itself has some biological benefits and doss not harm at low levels. It is the main nitrogen oxide gas produced in high temperature combustion. However, NO can be oxidise by oxygen and ozone to NO2 which is more dangerous. NO2 is decomposed at high temperature to NO and O2. In wiki it states the main problem with NO/NO2 in US is (natural) gas usage in stoves and ovens in homes where it can become concentrated.
H2S is an unpleasant smelling gas which is toxic at small concentration. It can be noticed when fuels high in S (organically combined) burns in reducing condition ie in deficit oxygen conditions. With excess oxygen SO2 is formed. Fuels used in planes, cars, and trucks have practically no Sulphur. Australia coals have low sulphur in comparison to US and European coals. With high stacks to disperse exhaust gases there is no need for power statios in Australia to reduce the SOx emission (done in towers with injection of limestone to give artificial gypsum)
Just a small poit about fuel. The temperature for ignition declines as follows hydrogen, Methane (natural gas), LPG, Petrol, lighting kerosene, power kerosene (also jet fuel), diesel (various grades), fuel oils (various grades)
I had a tractor which was started on petrol then switched to power kerosene. I once forgot to switch to kero. The engine seized and I had to wait about 20 minutes for the engine to cool so it would start and I could switch to Kero after which the tractor worked well. On Kero the tractor had more power for ploughing and it was more economical. There was no emission of of black smoke when the engine was warm and swithed to kero. It should be obvious that power kerosene burns at a lower temperature than petrol. I had a dual fuel car (LPG and petrol). To run with LPG much higher temperature value stems are required (I believe these have titanium in the steel). Let me say again diesel burns at lower temperature than petrol or LPG. So less NO is produced for the same power output and with the diesel cycle more efficiently.
I am always amazed at what can be learned by following this blog.
“Recover the COMPLETE cost of your new generator through participation in our STOR scheme.” GENsmart STOR Scheme
Thanks TdeF, I know that you mentioned electric arc a few days ago and I wrote that without checking. It looks, from the outside, as though Comm Steel had closed down but it’s great to hear that there’s still some activity in this area of heavy industry.
Yes, it’s under extreme threat. The Green policies are forcing the closure of all cheap and reliable electric power generation and so all recycling in Australia. Steel, plastics, everything. Smelters cannot use intermittent power either. Greens care nothing for the environment. They are all about shutting down democratic countries with their pseudo science. Why they also hate Jews and Israel is beyond imagining, but they are the new Hitler youth. The future belongs to them.
KK
My old employer was a major supplier to the former Comsteel for 30 years in all of its permutations of name and I had inside info on its goings-on via a senior Comsteel accountant.
A good deal of Comsteel’s woes were due to its being bought out at least 4 times during my 15 years dealing with it. Every time it was bought the debt burden increased on its new owners. The high $AU in about 2010-11 killed off much of its export market for train wheels/axles which it had previously supplied to many parts of the world. Work dried up. The only thing keeping the Waratah plant alive at that stage was the grinding media (steel balls from golf ball size to bowling ball size used in ore ball-mills, mainly copper and gold mines). All of its steel was recycled scrap arc-melted.
Later that failed too and Mayfield was reduced to a skeleton staff doing basic maintenance. The Onesteel/Arrium/Molycop group in Newcastle was then relying on its cable-making plant at Waratah to stay afloat. That situation persisted for several years but over the last 2 years they have been increasing their workforce again. By late 2017 the train wheels were back in production, but on nothing like the old scale: a couple of semi loads per day.
I think the old BHP Rod and Bar Mill which I know you are familiar with is still operating with electric arc furnaces too (although it could be gas) to re-heat ingots from Rooty Hill and draw them into coil. I think they were producing ingots of their own then too because the truck drivers used to complain that they were too hot when loaded and were burning the trays of their semis.
Interesting.
I spoke to some people a year ago about the current status of the plant I worked in. It was next to BHP and took rods to draw to wire.
Their comments were much the same picture that you’ve given: lots of uncertainty.
I suspect that most voters have little idea of the poor state of our manufacturing and heavy industry outside of mining.
Our governments have done very little over the past 25 years.
KK, the universities are already destroyed, why else would they persecute real scientists that disagree with their green mantra. The schools are almost as bad – real science is ignored or suppressed in favor of groupthink and ‘feelings’.
Sometimes people are backed into a corner.
Remember that elderly farmers a few years ago who was pestered by one of the official green enforcers.
Sadly the enforcer had no comprehension of the morally ugly thing he was doing, and paid the price.
No winners there.
Add Portland aluminium smelter, surviving for 4 more years from 2017 on basis of Vic government handout of $210 million with $30 million from Turnbull..
We are reaching the tipping point politically in Australia.
Unless the liberal coalition develops a point of difference by abandoning the RET and withdrawing from the parasites climate agreement, the average Australian is in for drop in standard of living.
Businesses will go bankrupt or off shore, unemployment will rise.
4 years of labor will send the country bankrupt.
The greens policies do not create any wealth.
Their goal is to destroy western civilization and send us back to the dark ages
I agree with your comments Mal but fortunately the ALP will be in power for 3 years (2019 – 2022) not 4 years before the 2022 Federal Election- still plenty of time to send our great nation down the gurglar.
Most of them have never experienced genuine hardship and the few that had believe it won’t happen again because their elite workforce system has protected them from the real economy and cost of living.
The worst recession here for 60 years was in and around 1990 and Australia has not experienced a recession since then. Even with the northern hemisphere financial crisis around 2008/09 Australia avoided a recession. But that was because our economy and government financial positions were very strong following 12 years of Howard Coalition Government and them repaying the Labor debt with interest by 2006, producing budget surpluses in all but one financial year including for 2007/08 (they lost government in November 2007) and even establishing investment funds, education and Future Fund of $60 billion (now double) and, a healthy economic position.
But today is a very different story, from zero debt in November 2007 (repaid June 2006) to almost $700 billion federal government today (after providing funding for Labor’s Gonski public school grants and NDIS the debt that can be attributed to Labor is at least $400 billion), state and local government debts additional plus debt hidden off government budgets in government owned private companies, eg; NBNCo. There has not been one budget in surplus since 2007/08. The economy is struggling below previous long term average GDP of 3.5 per cent, now under 2.5 per cent. Inflation is low but that indicates poor economic conditions. Many more indicators that Australia is vulnerable, national prosperity is declining along with many business closures and loss of jobs.
This situation was deliberately created by crooked politicians who, like the Obama regime in the US, are determined to impose a new world order, a world government, socialism and globalism.
You mean like desalination plants, school shelters and pink hats??
Government Strategy.
Make work schemes on borrowed money.
The troops get the largess, feel happy and vote for their benefactors.
Part of the borrowed money is recycled as tax payments to the benefactors who get to spend it twice over.
Everybody happy except our grandchildren who will have to deal with the debt.
During WW2, Communists in the warfies refused to load ships to supply troops.
If that element still exists in the union movement ( or worse ) if they will bring down a country when its fighting for its life during war time, why wouldnt it let it die during peacetime?
Maybe it time to call the unions out, and ask them pointedly what they are doing to protect economic life and limb….
As I see it the Liberal party has lost the next election. Split between 2 factions that think that the other has insane policies, they are spending their time fighting each other and ignoring the voters. Labor is almost certain to win the next election and probably the one after that unless they are as incompetent as they claim to be.
Far from the Liberals regrouping and determined to win in 2022 I foresee them indulging in even more internal warfare. The only solution I see is for the Party to split into the conservatives and the Green lites. Once the latter have been isolated and the usual chaos of a Labor government becomes obvious then they can mount a serious challenge.
I will not vote for the musical chairs parties, the cooperative of politicians branded Labor Green Liberal National all on the same path and not mostly in our best interests.
I will place them from the bottom up as I listed them above, in that order, and above my primary vote will go to a minor party candidate or carefully researched independent, taking care the “independent” is not a party plant, masquerading as an independent.
Same for the Senate.
The best voters can hope for is another hung parliament with the next federal government consisting of alliances to form a minority government, as in 2010 but hopefully many more outside of the main parties MP alliance members.
Voting is done at home researching the best person for the job.
The only difference between libls and laba is that laba does most of its ripoffs in the open while libls tend to hide theirs.
KK
I will not accept my vote flowing to a person that I will not accept in government.I will not number preferences beyond what I will accept.It is MY vote .Note that if the “informal” vote so classified when WE decide who is acceptable is large enough then the victor cannot claim to have the support of the electorate. Reclaim YOUR vote.Vote how YOU want, to express your true opinion of the options.
There is no guarantee that any politician will stay with the party they claim to be representing at the polls.
Recent history shows how well they lie to the public. Once they are in the trough they bring out their own personal views of the world rather than represent the voters.
How about some sympathy for the people that gave up all their spare time working to help get her elected as a LIBERAL?
How about some sympathy for the people that voted for her policies and the party that backed her the LIBERAL PARTY?
These people were effectively spat upon because she didn’t take the job seriously and wanted to grandstand about personal issues that the people who worked and voted for her couldn’t care less about (does voting out the carbon tax ring a bell?)
Add on top the lack of the resilience that it takes to survive in politics and you have someone who should never had put their hand up.
Hell even our worst performing politicians (spoilt for choice) have toughed it out and survived all manner of obstacles so credit where credit is due.
“and you have someone who should never had put their hand up.”………
Oh but Julia did……BUT was it “more” to appease Turnbull ..this time round ?????
I’d say there was a plan….with a promise …you scratch my back…and I’ll finance you at a later date, as a Independent…..!!!
Politics today in Australia = back to the Italian mafia days (without the guns)!!
Forget the flying rat, brainwashed kids go on strike over inaction on eliminating filthy coal.
‘Morrison was mentioned by every speaker and booed every time. How much he must regret that throwaway line in question time, that “kids should go to school” and be “less activist”, and the electoral harm it threatens to cause in a few more years.’
Even a severe change in the weather won’t shake their resolve, the youngsters are on a quest to save the world and will simply ignore scientific reality.
Bastardi compared this year to the 2002/2003 and 2009/2010 winters, El Nino is clearly a major driver. Further reading suggests a predominance of back to back El Nino as the planet cools.
el gordo, do you agree if it is a modoki el nino it is a strange one. “Classic” Modoki has a very warm equatorial (dateline) and cooler waters in the west and east. My latest reading doesnt show that. Indicates that we haven’t a complete knowledge of Pacific/Indian ocean systems. That record heatwave over QLD bringing”unprecedented” bushfires is something else!
Its not a Modoki, just a modest El Nino, but there is a good chance that a strong El Nino will build from July next year, followed by a sharp La Nina in 2020.
The question I need an answer for: Does more heat escape earth during El Nino?
According to Javier (comments Energy Matters 2015) more heat escapes earth during El Nino.
‘El Niño does not generate heat and therefore cannot warm the world. It just redistributes the heat in a temporally and spatially localized way. During and after an El Niño, the Earth is radiating more heat to space, as the satellite measurements clearly indicate, while it is not taking in more energy from the Sun.
‘The energy lost to space through an El Niño, will create a heat deficit for decades or centuries, but meanwhile it appears as warming to us because the heat has to go through the atmosphere and creates all sort of side effects.’
Look at the money the far-left are throwing at Tony Abbott’s seat to try to unseat him. So scared of him, they are.
Its the far-left infiltration of the Liberals that will disappear into oblivion once the dust settles.
Labor and Green have all the left-wing “taker” votes sown up, and ex-Liberal voters are not going to vote for this farce that is now the ex-liberal party.
The deluded left-oriented LINO-Party doesn’t have a chance.
The far-left will continue to branch stack in an effort to remove the real Liberals, but eventually, the libs will realise that being centre conservative is the only way that can actually gain votes and win back the large majority they had before Tony Abbott was knifed.
The Rutgers snow cover graph at the link is interesting.
Running from 1966 it is an inverse of the temperature variations I remember.
e.g. Decreasing snow from 1972 corresponds with my memories of very warm years and the more recent high snow coverage matches the recent bland summers.
So much for the histrionic, death by global warming media blast we are constantly hit with.
If they aren’t sophisticated enough to understand irony … then its back to the drawing board. Tony is tougher than Scott and the green left despise him even more than the current lame duck.
‘Tony Abbott is open to pushing for a position on the Coalition’s frontbench and does not rule out returning as party leader.’ Oz
‘Tony Abbott is open to pushing for a position on the Coalition’s frontbench and does not rule out returning as party leader.’ Oz
The doGs above are simply not that good to the left eg. 🙂 Tones back as PM??? Would make teh upcoming rout of the right an event of even more epic proportions than it looks like being now.
(Sorry, I’m not able to copy it into here.)
But it needs an additional word to improve its accuracy. Please find the appropriate spot to add the word “false”, or maybe “fake”.
great cartoon, but Jo is competing with another West Australian, Dr. Nick Watts, who is featured in almost the entire FakeNewsMSM today:
28 Nov: CarbonBrief: The Lancet: Extreme heat threatens ‘systemic failure’ of hospitals
by Daisy Dunne
The recent impact of climate change on heat-related diseases should be seen as a harbinger of future dangers posed to human health, a landmark report finds. These risks include the threat of a “systemic failure” of the world’s hospitals.
The findings come from the second Lancet Countdown (LINK) report: an annual review of the scientific evidence of climate change’s effect on human health produced by 27 academic organisations from across the world.
Climate change is already having a notable impact on many other aspects of human health, the report finds, including by negatively affecting nutrition, mental wellbeing and labourers’ capacity to work outdoors.
However, there is “cause for hope”, the authors add, pointing to a ramping up of interest in low-carbon “healthy” diets and modes of transport in recent years, as well as the possible health benefits of a phase out of coal-fired power…
The rise in the number of vulnerable people exposed to heatwaves not only raises the risk of premature mortality via heat stress, but also the occurrence of chronic diseases, such as heart failure, says ***Dr Nick Watts, executive director of the Lancet Countdown. He told a press briefing…READ ON https://www.carbonbrief.org/the-lancet-extreme-heat-threatens-systemic-failure-of-hospitals
***Medact: Nick Watts
Nick is a medical doctor having qualified from the University of Western Australia, and trained in population health (UWA) and public policy (University College London). He regularly consults with the World Health Organization’s Dept. of Public Health, Environmental and Social Determinants of Health, where he provides technical expertise on a range of policy issues, and supports the WHO’s engagement with the UN Framework Convention on Climate Change.
Nick also works as the Director of the UK Health Alliance on Climate Change, which brings together the UK’s major health institutions, including the BMA, The Lancet, the Faculty of Public Health, and the Royal Colleges of Physicians, Nursing, General Practitioners. The Alliance aims to support the health profession and engage government in accelerating a transition towards a healthier climate.
(RIGHT COLUMN) On Twitter:
TWEET: Medact: 20h ago: Shocked that a Polish coal company is 1st sponsor of #COP24 climate talks. Coal has serious public health impacts in Poland. Join us on Sat to show solidarity to Polish activists + demand #climatejustice from UK Gov @HealthyPlanetUK http://bit.ly/2r76vVKhttps://www.facebook.com/events/2059253 (LINK DESMOG UK)
Lancet Countdown to 2030 – Global Health and Climate Action
July 2016: WWF European Union: Coal-burning EU countries make their neighbours sick
Medical professionals support the Dark Cloud report
“Even one operational coal power plant is one too many, as this report shows. By ending coal power across Europe we can bring massive benefits for people’s health and for the climate in one fell swoop. EU countries and leaders can and should unite around this cause for the common good.” – Dr Nick Watts, Executive Director of the ***Lancet Countdown to 2030: Global Health and Climate Action… http://www.wwf.eu/?272333/Dark-Cloud
but the “2030” and “global” have now been dropped (though the word “global” features throughout the Carbon Brief article)
Climate change is ‘threat of the century’
The Australian-11 hours ago
Climate change needs public health campaign similar to tobacco as …
The Independent-12 hours ago
Heatwave Britain could see rise in violence, suicide and self harm …
Telegraph.co.uk-12 hours ago
Climate change already a health emergency, say experts
In-Depth-The Guardian-12 hours ago
seems The Australian is running with the following Thomson Reuters piece – read it all here:
O’Steve. That is the PLAN from City of London, Club Rome, Soro’s, etc. (NWO global socialist elite scumbags). (Un) – official strategy to reduce world population from current levels to 500 million. It is all written (Agenda 21/2030) and out for all to see. Amazingly though, how little on this planet know whats cooking!
“A rapidly changing climate has dire implications for every aspect of human life, exposing vulnerable populations to extremes of weather, altering patterns of infectious disease and compromising food security, safe drinking water and clean air,” it warned.
Global cooling is imminent and all over the western world people will be laughing out loud, having realised they had been duped. The Paris Agreement is in tatters and renewables become a thing of the past.
This change in the weather is real, a meandering jet stream and the collapse of the subtropical ridge in the southern hemisphere, producing blocking high pressure, are all signs of cooling.
On the ground it should become obvious to those in mid latitude that a few days of scorching heat followed by a cold air outbreak from Antarctica, lasting a few days, has nothing to do with CAGW
Baring an outbreak of hostilities between nation states, food security is assured.
Arctic warming causing the freezing “Beast from the East” must be proof there’s no GLOBAL warming, I guess:
29 Nov: UK Independent: UK support for oil and gas drilling in Arctic incompatible with climate change goals, warn MPs
by Josh Gabbatiss
The government must call off its support for oil and gas drilling in the Arctic if it is serious about its international commitments to protect the planet, MPs have warned.
Human activity is already pushing the polar region to the brink, as melting sea ice allows heavily polluting ships to enter pristine habitats and nations eye up its precious natural resources.
The Arctic is warming at twice the rate of the rest of the planet, and the resulting unusual weather patterns are already being felt in the UK – for example during this year’s ***“Beast from the East”.
29 Nov: Herald Scotland: Blackouts, deaths and civil unrest: warning over Scotland’s rush to go green
Exclusive by Sandra Dick
Scotland faces being plunged into darkness for days, possibly resulting in deaths and widespread civil disobedience, due to the country’s over-reliance on green energy, a new report has warned.
A massive gap in the electricity system caused by the closure of coal-fired power stations and growth of unpredictable renewable generation has created the real prospect of complete power failure.
According the Institution of Engineers in Scotland (IESIS), there is a rising threat of an unstable electricity supply which, left unaddressed, could result in “deaths, severe societal and industrial disruption, civil disturbance and loss of production”.
The organisation is also warning that the loss of traditional power generating stations such as Longannet, which closed in 2016, means restoring electricity in a “black start” situation – following a complete loss of power – would take several days.
Its new report into the energy system points to serious power cuts in other countries, which have resulted in civil disturbance, and warns: “A lengthy delay would have severe negative consequences – the supply of food, water, heat, money, petrol would be compromised; there would be limited communications. The situation would be nightmarish.”…
The startling warning comes against a background of increasing reliance on “intermittent” energy sources such as wind and solar power…
The closure of Hunterston B nuclear power station in Ayrshire, scheduled for 2023, is causing concern there will be an even wider gap in the nation’s electricity supply…
29 Nov: IESIS: Engineering for Energy – A proposal forgovernance of the energy system
Authored by the IESIS Energy Strategy Group
DOWNLOAD THE PAPER http://www.iesis.org/efore/
This is a direct link to the paper: http://www.iesis.org/efore/engforenergy.pdf
These incompetents are actually recommended a fully planned systems approach based on simulation using actual performance data. Can you believe any competent organisation would actually recommend the following:
A system model simulates the behaviour of the electricity system using:
∙ Detailed performance data for generation, transmission and distribution assets
∙ Time series data for demand
This is completely at odds with the way it is done in Australia with guidance from the AEMO technical consultants. The UK engineers have no faith in the “diversity” fairy that allows market based solutions relying solely on capacity factors for intermittents.
If they get their way soon enough they will avoid the complete system collapse that all intermittent intensive grids are heading toward.
Two useful facts:
1. UK has had a national grid since 1926. Real residential unit prices reduced till 2004.
2. Eggborough 2GW coal fired generator closed in September 2018. There are PLANS to build 2.5GW of gas fired generators to replace it.
Scotland could well prove to be the first location in the developed world to suffer serious loss of life through electric grid shutdown and prolonged recovery.
I can’t access the rest of this letter as I’ve linked to two Herald articles already. someone else might be able to open it and excerpt more, including who wrote the letter.
29 Nov: Herald Scotland: Letters: Our power grid and the Titanic scenario
MAJOR collapses of developed world electricity grid systems are not uncommon. The rise in renewables increases the probability.
Being able to rapidly “Black Start” the country is a public health priority and, rightly, a public expectation. In Scotland it is presently an unrealisable imperative… https://www.heraldscotland.com/opinion/17263695.letters-our-power-grid-and-the-titanic-scenario/
***Wikipedia: Adam H. Sobel is a Professor of Applied Physics and Applied Mathematics and of Earth and Environmental Sciences at Columbia University. He directs its Initiative on Extreme Weather and Climate. His research area is meteorology with a focus on atmospheric and climate dynamics, tropical meteorology, and extreme weather/
***still less than 10 billion euros – not the wildly exaggerated figure the UN was claiming this week:
28 Nov: Deutsche Welle: Germany to double donation for UN climate change fund
by cw/msh (epd, KNA, Reuters)
The pledge comes ahead of a major UN climate conference. Donations to the UN Green Climate Fund are only a fraction of the $100 billion annual goal countries had pledged to reach by 2020.
Gerd Müller said the German government would pay another €750 million ($850 million) in to the UN Green Climate Fund over the next two years, having already paid in a previous pledge of the same sum. Müller also encouraged other countries to increase their contributions…
World leaders agreed to establish the fund in 2010 at a climate conference in Cancun, Mexico and so far nearly ***€10 billion has been pledged from public and private sources…
The sum falls far short of the $100 billion annually that countries had pledged to contribute by 2020…
While in a waiting room I read in Choice magazine an article titled something like “5 ways to tell that you are not optimising your energy bills”.
Number 5 was: You live in South Australia. Well, thanks a lot! They were not suggesting we all move interstate, just that SA has the dearest electricity in Australia and ACT has the cheapest.
Number 1 was: You don’t have solar. Save heaps on bills and one day you will be “ahead”.
Choice offer an interesting service to its members for electricity supply. The look at the market in your area and will churn you to the cheapest offer every 3 months (or get your current supplier at that date to match it)
UN’s Portuguese SOCIALIST Antonio Guteres has something political to say to BBC, but I can’t be bothered watching the video. just seeing the faux seriousness on the face of BBC’s Bryant was all I could take:
Nationalism – this is , in other words, loving your country and rejecting the evils of communist-spreading globalism.
Globalism means cutting your country off from its history, moral and political foundations, and “sacrificing” your population & children to unelected evil globalists.
You know, I just cant understand why more people dont do it….toxic sludge is good for you….
I offered the comment you see below to David Middelton who posted an article on WUWT.
The article is
I think the National Climate Assessment (NCA) is and embarrassment. I offered the following comment to David. I hope you find it interesting. I am hard to embarrass so have fun with it.
David
Thanks for the post. I looked at what you presented here and in your post back in April. Here are a few points. I read in another article that the NCA was not based on the solid red line. Rather, it is based on 15F instead. Below is a quote form the article I read:
“That study only found substantial damage to the U.S. economy under an extreme global warming scenario of 15 degrees Fahrenheit by 2100 — twice the United Nations’ worst-case scenario called RCP8.5.”
Your figure 2 shows how it could be 15F if you use the maximum of the shaded area. This is what I would call extreme squared. I used 15F as the basis for what I document here.
Perhaps, this comment is more directed at what you posted back in April, but I hope it adds something.
First, regarding CO2. As you can see in the figure below, I have a very precise fit to the Mauna Loa measurements.
I think in the April post you came up with 683 and I came up with 672. Not bad.
Now, onto 15F.
I wrote a little program for this evaluation. I can get to the final temperature of 15F two ways. I can find what ECS value gets me there or I can determine what the final value of CO2 must be with a given ECS value. That is what this little program does.
There you have it. If CO2 grows at its current pace as shown in the earlier figures the ECS value must increase to 8.56. If we use the worst-case IPCC value of 4.5 the final PPM value would have to be 1254. That is not too far from your value as I recall.
Now to illustrate just how foolish this report is I added a new line to my graphs in my cyclic analysis of UAH data. My cyclic analysis with a contribution from CO2 is a very good match to the measured data.
I performed a 5-year moving average of both the measured data and the cyclical data and essentially duplicated a familiar curve that included balloon data. You can see the lines are on top of one another. The figure also includes the Lewis and Curry estimate for ECS too. I added a new line for the NCA 15F estimate.
You will also find a line identified as rcp85. That is my digitization of the red line from your figure 2. You will see that the IPCC 4.5 line is a reasonable match for it. Make note of how well the Lewis and Curry value matches the data.
Why are you trying to follow a CO2 trend that doesnt do anything to the temperatures?
I dont believe Mauna Loa either, looks fishy to me. One station at high altitude cant measure the entire planets CO2 proper ratio which varies according to location WIDELY! There is data to show this (no link Ill look later).
Why not cut to the chase — the temperature rise from leaving the LIA to today is neither unusual nor particularly rapid. Compare the current temperature rise to variations and rises in the last 10,000 years and it’s just ordinary. Besides who in their right mind wants to go back to the climate of the LIA?
CO2, smearo-U-2! It a dud, a non-event, just some political propaganda for the rich and powerful to fool the sheeple with.
If they really wanted to understand the climate wouldn’t they have sorted out how atmospheric water vapor works on/in the weather/climate system? To discover what actually determines how clouds start, evolve, and dissipate but no they haven’t, they guess at how clouds function. Some days there can be thousands of tons of water exchanging/transferring massive amounts of energy just above our heads.
What is the energy balance of a cloud, any cloud at any elevation, direction of travel, and air temperature, during the night and day?
How does visible light, IR, and UV scattering by the clouds change as a cloud evolves – and how does that alter the local weather/climate about it?
How does the latent heat of evaporation/condensation operate within any cloud and what are the major influences on them?
How and what cloud parameters change when traveling over oceans, forests, deserts, and cities?… etc., etc.
Who knows? Climate scientists and their inaccurate models — NO!
If you can not accurately model clouds you can not model weather or climate accurately for more than a few days, a week at the most.
Now remind me how do they think they know the temperature of this whole planet to within a 0.1°C for any length of time into the future?
Sorry I missed your talk yesterday, of a lot of people that I follow on the subject of AGW – you’re one of my top browser links. I really would’ve have liked to attend but unfortunately other priorities prevented me from attending. Next time?
Unusually so. The gullibles don’t normally comment on the site (in my limited experience). Have they been instructed to stir up controversy there? Or is it just the mention of global cooling gets them all very nervous?
A woman called Blair Palese is the founder and CEO of 350 org Australia. Last job before taking the reins of 350 was with Greenpeace Australia. She originates from the US.
[Revealing someone’s phone number is a bad practice, even if it’s the one you revealed. I snipped that and left the rest of the comment. If anyone goes to the site it will be there but revealed by its owner.] AZ
Yes it would be helpful to have this information spread around before the next election. At least people will be more aware of the type of people running as candidates under the banner of their respective party and ideologies. The great litmus test for the people would then be more representative of their awareness. Personally I still feel much of the populace here are asleep or couldn’t give a damn. It would be great if we were in a similar position as our US counterparts back when Trump was elected. We need to remember Trump didn’t really run as a true Republican but more as an independent capitalist as distinct from standing for crony capitalism/socialism. So for the same sort of outcome to occur here where are political system is very different we would have to see both ALP and LNP fail to form a majority government by a long shot. It will be interesting to see if the public by and large are really that sick of the two parties as we keep hearing about, or the people are just whining for the sake of whining but will still vote as usual.
Have you seen a broadcast of the Russian military press conference, where they showed:
* published photos of missile serial numbers
* where both the rocket itself and the engine were manufactured, by whom, on what date etc. Hand written entries in official log books of the day.
* when it was shipped to military (similar backup docs – in fact, take that as read for all in the list)
* where it was warehoused, and what military serial number it was given
* which unit it was assigned to and when it was delivered to them
It was assigned to a unit that now belongs to the Ukrainian military since Ukrainian independence.
Press conference had de-classified documents such as the manufacturers docs available to handle. Some military logs were opened to specific pages, but behind glass.
They also had what they claimed was a recording of a Ukrainian politician/military commander saying along the lines of “…do we shoot another airliner down so they know we’re serious?”
This all looked and sounded very convincing, at least as well handled as any US military press briefing. As I recall they answered a handful of questions and then left – there wasn’t much to ask really, given what they presented and how: continuously referring back to previous numbers and so on, to show the full chain first claim, then evidence, next claim, next evidence etc, then again in order without the evidence as an overview.
Ran about 25 mins live on RT.
Take it as you will, the wonder is that I never even heard it happened at all from the MSM – not even Their ABC!
Org350, GetUp!, Open Society, Common Purpose, Antifa…
Apart from some sincere low-level foot-sloggers, the people who join and work for these hives are never comfortable without sneaking, undermining, white-anting, secrecy, stunts, theatre, nepotism, favouritism, hierarchy and elitism. It’s the atmosphere they need. To think and speak openly as individuals is foreign to them. To some, the temptation never even arises. Away from the hive they feel they are nothing. Their perceived moral and intellectual superiority absorbed from the hive justifies all, explains all.
I know there are groups on the right of a similar nature, but collectivism tends to shower more of its wealth and resources to the left. Moreover, much right-left tension is artificial. Bloated alphabet agencies that can’t stop growing tentacles know how and why that’s done. The sane shouldn’t care or react too much. It’s good to observe the bizarre but obvious connection between the counter-culture and the military through the 1960s (your fave rock idol was likely born on a military base!), but it’s more important to feel free of the need to manipulate.
I still reckon the answer is not to form our own hives with pretentious or deceptive names, but to go on as many individuals, free and uncoordinated. I know that when I feel the need to manipulate anyone or anything I’m immediately wrong, no matter the cause or the need. That’s been precious knowledge.
Life in Australia will be intermittent within a decade.
‘Renewable generation installation has accelerated to such an extent it is on track to provide almost 80 per cent of the electricity market by 2030, according to research from consultancy Green Energy Markets.’
Diesel ?…..where did you get that idea from.
No, it will be Gas. Just as it is now in SA, California, UK etc.
And dont belieeve this 80% supply crap, or the other lies (22% supply from RE currently etc)…its all just uninformed lies.
Re will NEVER provide 100% grid power.
That’s fine. When the time comes China will probably come in and turn things around with or without our agreement. I’m sure the left will be very happy then – not! More likely they will be the first ones to be culled from society. See very cloud has a silver lining.
Interesting date that 2030, crops up all over the place, especially in solar science.
Nils-Axel Mörner —
By about 2030-2040, the Sun will experience a new grand solar minimum. This is evident from multiple studies of quite different characteristics: the phasing of sunspot cycles, the cyclic observations of North Atlantic behaviour over the past millennium, the cyclic pattern of cosmogenic ra-dionuclides in natural terrestrial archives, the motions of the Sun with respect to the centre of mass, the planetary spin-orbit coupling, the planetary conjunction history and the general planetary solar terrestrial interaction. During the previous grand solar minima—i.e. the Spörer Minimum (ca 1440-1460), the Maunder Minimum (ca 1687-1703) and the Dalton Minimum (ca 1809-1821)—the climatic conditions deteriorated into Little Ice Age periods.
Of course by then the UN insists that we’re all hooked into wind and solar electricity generation. That will help when the winters are like a Dalton minimum.
Australia by that time should be struggling along with even more wind and solar.
A large-scale renewable electricity supply system by 2030: Solar, wind, energy efficiency, storage and inertia for the South West Interconnected System (SWIS) in Western Australia
That was before the sun came up and when it was needed. Now that the sun is up and the solar has lifted its game the wind is also up to 450MW. The 600MW battery that is Victoria has swung from supplying 230MW to SA at 0500 to now absorbing 220MW at 1030.
Can you imagine the mayhem when there is 50GW of wind going up down over hourly periods.
I find it hard to imagine the forecast grid scale intermittents will meet economic hurdles. The proponents would be foolish to base the capacity factors on anything close to the unconstrained CFs. The diversity fairy is make believe and that will become increasingly apparent.
Some idiot will use that as a justification that you need MOAR!!!!
Then another idiot will red thumb you for even mentioning it, without even giving the slightest thought to well, if that can happen how can we ever be 100% “renewable” Such are religious beliefs.
long intro.
only interested in Hauber-Davidson talking about storm water harvesting around 4min25sec.
says there’s a whole range of storm water harvesting schemes(?) that we have all over Sydney. we were super busy installing them during Millennium drought, with a lot of generous funding support, but the very sad fact – and that’s actually the real scandal in the whole scheme of things – is the majority of them, paid for with our good taxpayer money, they are now idle, doing nothing, because councils or whoever owns them can’t find a few thousand dollars to replace a pump or do whatever is required to re-commission them again.
sadly, McLaren doesn’t respond to these revelations or ask for details, such as how much taxpayer money, how many schemes, etc. he goes on to other aspects of the story:
AUDIO: 12min39sec: 30 Nov: 2GB: Michael McLaren: Could we capture storm water instead of using the de-sal plant?
The long mothballed desalination plant will be switched on again soon even though more than one month’s worth of rain fell in just two hours across Sydney earlier this week. Michael talks to water conservation expert Guenter Hauber-Davidson, Managing Director of WaterGroup, and asks could Sydney ever capture storm water rather than let it flow out to sea? https://www.2gb.com/podcast/could-we-capture-storm-water-instead-of-using-the-de-sal-plant/
from a PDF file whose url I can’t copy for some reason:
There are a number of projects across the Sydney region that collect and reuse stormwater. Sydney Water generally does not have a role in establishing or operating smaller local schemes, but will support and help facilitate access to the stormwater supply from its stormwater system. The number of stormwater harvesting projects is constantly growing. For an up-to-date list, visit http://www.waterforlife.nsw.gov.au/recycling/stormwater.
Grants and funding The NSW Government, through the NSW Climate Change Fund, provides funding for water savings projects in NSW. A number of stormwater harvesting projects have received grants from the NSW Government to re-use stormwater to save water and protect the environment. To find out more, visit http://www.environment.nsw.gov.au/grants
The Australian Government has also funded stormwater harvesting projects in the past through the Department of Sustainability, Environment, Water, Population and Communities. Future grants will be advertised through their website. To find out more, visit http://www.environment.gov.au.
ps, I have nothing against stormwater harvesting as such, its just that it really is a piddling amount.
Can be useful for small project to control run-off and provide some water during low rainfall periods, but capacity is limited, and run-off from suburban streets requires far more treatment than se-water to make it suitable for human consumption.
The pollutant load for a start can be very high, and I am talking real pollution, not suitable for plant growth.
Stormwater harvesting is best done in bulk, and Sydney has 9 main dams that do this already, from basically near-pristine watersheds.. !
The problem with stormwater is that it is “climate dependent”, and the Sydney metropolitan area does not have places where it can be stored in sufficient large amounts. It is fiddling around the edges, just like wind and solar (except not destructive to the supply system.)
Australia has one of the most erratic rainfalls in the world, “either drought or plenty”
The population of Sydney continues to grow and the effect of water saving appliance upgrades is running down, and demand is starting to increase more quickly than in the last couple of decades.
Unless another MAJOR large storage dam is built, something like Welcome Reef, then Sydney will have no choice but to work with “climate independent” sources, such as de-sal and re-use.
thanks for the replies.
my concern is how much taxpayer money was granted for these schemes? it sounded like it was a LOT. and none are now operational?
i’d like to see a summary of the cost to taxpayers and the number of schemes and their overall capacity.
in the interview, Hauber-Davidson said Sydney gets plenty of rain – think he said 1,000mls annually.
Its the same syndrome as bushfire rebuilding. Govts and well intentioned charities dump millions into an area building bigger and better infrastructure, the the local govt cant afford to maintain and operate all the new stuff arriving in one hit with no wriggle room in their budget.
Just because a water capture system falls from the sky due to govt largesse, it doesnt mean the local authority is skilled and financed to operate it and keep it alive.
The Australian Renewable Energy Target (RET) as currently legislated is 33,000 GWhr per year of large scale electricity generation from renewables by 2020. According to Tony’s report on the last 8 weeks of electricity generation in the AEMO region (so excluding WA and NT), we are currently running at 31,200 GWhr per year with plenty more in the pipeline to meet the target. If you add in rooftop solar, renewables generation is running at a rate of over 40,000 GWhr per year.
I can’t see on the Clean Energy Regulator’s website what the target is for small scale renewable certificates, but it would seem that Australia is going to well and truly exceed the RET targets.
Can the government therefore immediately cancel the sale of renewable energy certificates that are driving up electricity costs? Minister Angus Taylor, minister for getting electricity prices down according to PM Morrison, when are you going to take action? After all, we keep getting told ad nauseam that renewables are so cheap. Some good news, LGCs were selling for about $85/MWhr earlier in the year, but spot prices are now under $65, while STCs are holding steady at about $35.
I posted this comment last night on the “Midweek Unthreaded”. But the parade had moved on here..Ummmm..
So so I can have the benefit of feedback, I copying here :
THERE IS NO CO2 CLIMATE WARMING ON MARS !!!
Does increased CO2 in the atmosphere cause the earth to warm ?
A comparison with Mars is worth noting. In fat it’s very interesting
CO2 makes up 96% of the composition of it’s atmosphere and weighs ~24 terratonnes.
By contrast CO2 in the Earth’s atmosphere is 0.00048 % & weighs ~ 2.4 terratonnes.
(All these figures come from Wikipedia. I’m not making them. )
Ummmmmm ? Let’s think about that folks..
Despite all that CO2 in the Martian atmosphere, there is NO CO2 greenhouse warming to speak of..
In Winter ambient temperature on Mars can reach a minimum of -136 degrees C..Very bloody cold ! And in Summer ambient temperature gets a maximum of just 35 degrees C.
What’s all that CO2 on Mars doing ? Maybe all that martian CO2 is just not pulling it’s climate warming weight…..
Or is that all the water on Mars is frozen solid under the .. And there is no water vapor in the Martian atmosphere to really get a greenhouse effect going…like we have here on much warmer, much more livable, & much pleasanter, Earth
By the way this has all been said & written about before. But still the CO2 ‘Climate Warmists’ are still crying ‘Wolf, Wolf, Wolf ’ at rising CO2 here in order to scare us…Dopiness abounds..
And unfortunately it looks like our own local SA member has also decided to believe it as well…
Hmm? …post gone missing ??
Bill, im sure you know that this is the. “Fact that must not be discussed” with alarmists .
Mars has a very low atmospheric pressure ,..6.0 mbar
….that might just be important !
But also, it is 50% further away from the sun than earth, and as such recieves much less energy from the sun.
Chad I know all about the low atmospheric pressure on Mars…
But the differences as regards CO2 Warming are less than imagined..
1 : Most of the earth’s atmosphere is Nitrogen (77% ) which is completely transparent to thermal radiation whether incoming and outgoing.
2: Another 23% of the earth’s atmosphere is Oxygen which is also transparent to thermal radiation both incoming & out going…
So the fact that Mars has no Nitrogen or Oxygen in it’ atmosphere makes for no difference..
There is lots of CO2 on Mars (96) but No water vapor which means it’s bloody cold.
There’s quite a lot of water vapor in Earth’s atmosphere but bugger all CO2..And so we have climate warming..
It’s true that Mars is further away from the sun than Earth and does receive less intense solar radiation & light but it’s not that much further..Not like Jupitor or Saturn or Uranus etc..
So it’s the lack of water vapor which is making the difference.
Interesting link El Gordo..but the authors start from the assumption that CO2 does the warming and that there is not enough of it to terraform Mars….
I don’t make that assumption..I suggest that CO2 doe does cause climate warming either here or on Mars..it is water vapor which is the climate warming gas here on Earth..And it’s absence on Mars because it is all frozen, puts Mars into an almost permanent ice age..
By the way water vapor in the atmosphere is constantly being added to on Earth from meteors etc. ( I remember reading about 40,000 tons a year in New Scientist.)
I wonder if that happens to Mars.And if not, why ?
It seems to work really really well on Venus… 🙂 … even better than it works here on the Third and Fourth Rocks. The temperature at the surface is 467° C and the pressure is 93 bar, roughly the pressure at c. 500 fathoms (3,000ft) underwater on Earth. Venus’s atmosphere is 96.5% CO2, whereas Mars is only 95.7% CO2 (both sccording to Wikipedia). That may be why it doesn’t work so well on Mars, it being just under the 96% tipping point … 🙂
Venus is interesting.
1: It is very close to the sun so the level of solar radiation is far more intense than on Earth or Mars.
2 The planet’s sidereal day of 243 days. That means the one side of Venus faces the sun for 243 days..
3 : These two facts make for very intense heating of the surface on Venus.
4 : Yes the atmosphere is 97% but that is correlation not causation. There is no need for CO2 warming on Venus…
This is an interesting discussion ! Thanks to those who are replying. I will change my opinion on this issue if one of us comes up with Facts that falsify my hypothesis.
I posted an answer to one of our resident trolls, Craig Thomas, back on the ‘Ocasio-Cortez’ thread, suggesting a discussion of Freshman Astrophysics (and, more specifically, planetary atmospheres). Keep in mind that much of this predates the level of information we have on Venus (Venera landers, Magellan, etc), but is still relevant:
First, a couple of definitions; SubSolar BlackBody Temperature: the temperature of a terrestrial body w/o an atmosphere (most relevant example, our own natural satellite).
Equilibrium BlackBody Temperature: temperature of a slowly rotating (T ~ 10 Earth days) with a nominal atmosphere. The authors of our text, Zeilik and Smith, chose to use a nitrogen/oxygen atmosphere as their ‘nominal’. Note that a ‘nominal’ must also be devoid of any and all “greenhouse” gasses, to include water vapor, carbon dioxide, nitrous oxide, methane, etc etc etc.
Through a series of calculations (some of which included proofs), and using the current albedo figures for Venus, Moon, Earth, and Mars, they showed the following theoretical temperatures (and, please note my comment at the end, OK? Thanks!):
Each of these uses the “observed” albedo of each body; we know that the Earth, for example, would NOT have an albedo of 0.3, if we removed any and all water, water vapor, and the like. As we have two dominant rock types at the surface, sialic, and mafic, the two types together would alter our albedo significantly. Likewise, Venus, having immobile continents (as far as we can tell) also has just two dominant rock types, and we know the Venusian “ocean” basins are floored by mostly mafic type rocks, so it is reasonable that Venus would have an albedo similar to the moon, if the atmosphere was transparent.
*This is actually a SubSolar BB temperature, and coincidentally enough, matches the observed “average” temperature of the lunar surface, which, in truth, only has two modes: hot (daylight) and cold (nighttime). With the Moon’s albedo, and a ‘nominal’ atmosphere, the Equilibrium BB temperature of the moon would be closer to 290 Kelvins.
Now, what’s wrong with this picture? Well, nothing really; we’re comparing apples to apples. As has been pointed out, Venus receives just under twice the amount of solar radiation as the Earth, and Mars receives about half of what the Earth does, so the ‘theoreticals’ make sense. Let us consider Venus for just a moment: ostensibly, because of this dense, 96% CO2 atmosphere, Venus’ observed temperature of well over 700 Kelvins is proof-positive of the “runaway greenhouse effect” from the “greenhouse gas”, carbon dioxide. OK, I can accept that — — except that the various landers, as they descended through the Venusian atmosphere, recorded temperatures at various levels. Funny thing: when they passed the level in the Venusian atmosphere with a pressure of one bar (Earth sea level pressure), the temperature they measured was in the vicinity of 320 – 330 Kelvins!
Hmmmmm. PV = nRT anyone?
It is oft-cited that the “temperature” of the Earth, w/o ANY “greenhouse gasses” would be this bone-chilling 255 Kelvins. Well, OK, except that an “atmosphere”, any “atmosphere” has measurable physical characteristics, such as ‘heat capacity’, and the like. Further, unlike General Circulation Models (now there’s an oxymoron) which set convection and advection to zero, a ‘nominal’ atmosphere is free to engage in such things as convection and advection, which means that said atmosphere can distribute and store heat, even without “greenhouse” gasses present. The most glaring failure of current climatology is to assume that only “greenhouse” gasses can retain heat. That is a blatantly false statement.
So, according to our calculation, with just nitrogen, and oxygen in the atmosphere, we should be at about 277 Kelvins, if our ocean-free basaltic crust kept our albedo at just 0.3. If we moved even slightly towards an albedo of 0.25, our Equilibrium BB would be closer to 285 Kelvins. Not so much of a difference from our generally-assumed 288 Kelvins, with all of that “heat-trapping” water vapor around.
And then there’s Mars: wow, what an enigma! Here it is, getting a pittance of solar radiation, and even with an atmosphere (yes, it is very thin, and has a VERY hard time retaining heat) that resembles Venus, it can’t even make it to its theoretical 202 Kelvins, coming in at a general average of about 190 Kelvins.
I really do not know how much more proof a warmist needs to see that the claims of carbon dioxide’s “heat trapping” and “greenhouse” effect are substantially, and wildly, and psychotically overblown. You cannot make the case that historical Earth temperature (for the past 750 million years) and carbon dioxide concentration have any correspondence to each other, yet they persist in telling us that too much carbon dioxide will “smother” (h/t C.T.) us.
Sure hope that helps, and stimulates further discussion. If I have a way to do it, I’ll see if I can make scans of those pages from my Freshman Astropysics text, and allow others to chime in (Mods: might need a little help with this … … … I’m very old, and not very tech-savvy … … … )
The Depraved-est and MOST-EST Deplorable-est Vlad the Impaler-est, a crashing bore-est and an even bigger-est bully-est, according to C.T.
Sadly Climate Scientists/Political Scientists are unaware of this reality.
It’s also good to be aware that doing a surface temperature estimate on the planets has a few issues besides albedo. One that comes to mind is the effect of core temperature at the surface.
In the end, very basic gas physics denies global warming theory via CO2 and if this isn’t enough, a simple quantitative assessment of greenhouse gases operating in the same wave bands as CO2 ends the madness.
Quantitatively, water is the overwhelming guy, next is natural origin CO2 and last and totally impotent and irrelevant is Human Origin CO2.
Hey Vlad, thank you for that long & detailed comment…
But I have a problem.
I am dealing with this issue on another facebook group post..And the folks there are not scientifically literate..
I doubt I can translate the detailed science of your comment into English that they understand.
Any suggestions about how to deal with this ?
Bill
PS : The Earth is in fact 2/3rds Ocean And we live on an Ocean world with the deep seas, evaporation & water vapor constant, natural parts of the climate & thus temperature regime. These features are what give us the climate we have…Which is very unlike the moon our nearest largish neighbour… Thoughts ?
Wow! That’s a toughie! My Freshman Astrophysics presumed a working knowledge of PDE’s, just as one of the pre-requisites to start the class. Co-registration was acceptable, but only with Dr. Malcolm Dycke’s written permission.
Yes, we DO live on a ‘water world’; the terrestrial habitat is in the distinct minority, but remember, the theoretical Equilibrium BB temperature is ONLY a theoretical construct, and not the ‘actual’ temperature. And, as I pointed out, the assumed albedo would change significantly, since liquid water has a highly different albedo than any mafic rock. We could easily slide into a lunar albedo, sans oceans, and there goes the EquiBB temperature (north of 300 Kelvins is not out of the question).
And, before I forget, my sincere apologies for the length of the post in the first place. I tend to post very long, very boring, and very pointless things, especially on Jo’s site. Anthony, I can often post short quips. For some reason, Jo brings out the orator in me … … …
Here’s what I suggest: assuming we do not step on any toes w/ copyright and blog rules, and what-not, I wonder if you might take 23.1.1.4.1, and, with notice that this is what you are doing, cut-and-paste it into your discussion group. I like hanging at Jo’s (and Anthony’s), and if any of them want to hit me back w/ questions, or seek any kind of clarification, I’ll do my best to see if I can field any questions. I’ve (literally) taught generations of Math, Geology, and incipient aviator-students, so I’m fairly practiced at taking complex stuff and putting it into lay terms.
To date, anyone who had ridden right seat w/ me, and is now a four-striper, has not had a violation, incident, accident, or enforcement action from the FAA, so I’d like to think I managed to teach them well.
I would, if we have permission, include this post, and your post, asking for assistance, w/ some “commercial breaks” in between, where you explain what has transpired here.
Otherwise, I’ll have to transcribe the relevant pages of Zeilik and Smith, and see if there is a way to post them in a file here, for all to examine, and critique.
Vlad, ..accepting the BB theory etc,…
Isnt the Venus situation complicated/ unique due to the dense layers of various gas clousd, seversl miles thick, that are reported to be permanently shrouding the planet ?
Vlad, well I posted your long comment..And I have had three responses demanding to know who you are, or mocking the fact that you write anonymously…
But not a twiddle of word about what you say…
And these folk supposedly have science degrees…Bugger ! Here is one of the comments & my response:
James Sadler Sorry but the veracity of the post is seriously undermined by the anonymity of the author. Just delete the ad hominem attacks if they surface.
Manage
Like
Bill in Oz : James I am old enough too remember when a lot of controversial was publised anonymously to prevent such ‘Ad Hominem’ stuff…And the possibility of being demoted or sacked as well.by various authorities…In recent decades folks have demanded to know authors’ names because that make’s it very easy for lazy readers to skim through and then just say, Yes, that’s right” on the basis of the ‘Authority’ of the famous author. And as I am sure you know, any argument from AUTHORITY always has the lowest ranking in an argument…So…..What do you think of the scientific argument presented in that post by our scientific author? Surely it’s the science that matters not who wrote it… At least that is what I was taught at school & at university when I was a lot younger…
Sorry for the absence; life happened, and the better half, along w/ the grandkids we are raising, intervened.
First, Annie, it was part of my job as an Air Taxi (“Charter”) pilot to bring the young ones along, and show them Standard Operating Procedures, and what-not, just as the “greybeards” had done with me. I flew mostly out of Salt Lake City, though at times, I had been based in parts of Nevada, New Mexico, and I even did a stint working out of Tulsa, but, by the Grace of Our Lord and Saviour, it was mercifully brief. Yes, I squeezed some degrees in there as well, in the era before there was all this ‘on-line’ stuff. If you ask ‘how?’ did I do it, I honestly have no idea. I think it was just, “Cowboy up! Git ‘er done!” Mostly, I was in my late teens and early twenties, so that may have been part of it.
Greetings, Chad: Yes, you are MOST correct, there is this business with those sulfur clouds, and it is a great complication. Let us go back to the (now) known structure of the Venusian cloud layers, and where, in that atmosphere, the pressure equals Earth surface pressure.
The clouds exist mainly at two levels, and are easily tens of kilometres thick; there is a ‘clear’ area between the two (and, of course, remember that they are dynamic, so the structure is constantly changing), and then at about 40 – 45 kilometres from the surface, we enter into the (almost) pure carbon dioxide part of Venus atmosphere. Several of the Venera, during their descent, recorded the pressure of one bar, and temperature close to 320 Kelvins (as stated, there was some variation, as different landers descended to their respective touchdown sites).
Now, let us back up to the presentation shown in my Astrophysics text: the “theoretical” temperatures were calculated using the measured albedos of the various celestial bodies. On Earth, the 277 Kelvins came from the existing albedo of 0.3, and Venus’ 325 came from using the 0.77 accepted value. As you point out, the cloud layers complicate any calculations concerning theoretical temperatures. That the two matched as well as they did should be taken as an indication that there is some substance to the theory (in this context, ‘theory’ should be taken to mean ‘underlying Mathematical principles’, and not the intermediate step between ‘hypothesis’ and ‘law’). What we should be using is Venus’ ‘transparent atmosphere’ albedo, which, as I discussed earlier, may not be different from the Moon, given the small ‘continental’ areas of (presumed) silicic crust, and the extensive ‘ocean’ basins, floored by mafic crust. Back-of-the-envelope calculation, Venus’ Equilibrium BB temperature in that ‘nominal’ atmosphere could easily reach 500 Kelvins, but this is more poetry than truth.
And, realistically, we have no idea of the insulation effect of kilometres upon kilometres of sulfuric acid, sulfur dust, and associated compounds. Along with the surface pressure, I’ve often wondered how much effect those clouds have on maintaining primordial heat. Note that above, someone brought in the complicating factor of escaping core heat. Let’s not go there … … … …
Hope that helps, Chad. I may be ‘out of action’ for much of the remaining weekend, but I’ll do my best to get back here.
Hi Bill: sorry to place you last. I thought my reply to Chad would be shorter than it was.
OK — anonymity: I’ve posted here, and at Anthony’s, under my real name. After one fairly acrimonious exchange with someone using the handle, “Harry TwinOtter”, his final response to me was an attempt (I think) to insult me, by addressing me as “[redacted first name] ‘Vlad the Impaler’ [redacted last name]”. Both he and I knew he had been thoroughly skewered. At the time, I had no idea there was an historical figure, Vlad the Impaler, so I was quite amused.
Now, couple that with a time previous to JoNova and WUWT, and I was engaged in a discussion with some lovely chaps (on-line, like this). Out of the blue, I would get phone calls that were either hang-ups, or, as the discussions deepened, death threats, and at one point (which is when I left those discussions), two of my grandchildren, by name, were threatened with violence, as was my wife, again, by name.
Yes, we were in the “Information Age”, and nothing can be kept private.
So, back to Jo and Anthony, after a time, and remembering the incident with family members being brought into the discussion, against my will, I approached them about adopting the moniker, ‘Vlad the Impaler’, still with no clue that this was a real person, at one time. Jo was reluctant, stating that I could choose something, ” … not so violent …”, Anthony had no issue with it; as time went along, and people like me were labeled ‘deplorable’ by HRC, and now ‘depraved’ by whats-his-face in the NYT, I’ve embellished their childish attempts to insult us by adopting the names they use for us.
I wish someone had taken a photo of me, when I turned on American Heros Channel, and watched the episode on Vlad, the Impaler. It was fascinating! I can see why Mr. TwinOtter (or as I call him, Dr. DeHavilland) imparted this moniker to me. And, what could be more co-incidental than this: years ago, I was right-seat on DcHavilland Twin Otters, flying out of Logan, Utah, for a bit over a year. Nice, robust aircraft, and easy to fly. It was not long after that, that I earned my fourth stripe, and now, I’m trying desperately to free the younger crowd from the shackles they seem so eager to enslaves themselves with.
If you would, please let your friends know that I gain nothing from them, financially, by freeing them from their imaginary fears. The Al Gores, Gavin Schmidts, Christina Figueres (sp?) and David Suzukis, are all trying desperately to enslave them, rule over them, control them, and own them. In doing so, they take virtually everything from them, including their humanity, whose base yearning is to live free, and unfettered, and making the most of this one life we get. I think it is Dr. Walter Williams who says that he constantly tries to sell his fellow Americans on the concept of Liberty. Why anyone would have to deliberately work, and seemingly hitting his head against a brick wall, to ‘sell’ someone on the concept of Liberty, and Freedom, is the enigma of the age. The young are so programmed, anymore, to just accept slavery, and serfdom, and accept imposed limits upon them, by those whose benificence extends only to enriching themselves at the expense of the ‘little guys’ (like me). I am failing to understand what has broken down so badly in our society, that young people actually seek living under totalitarianism. I do not understand it, but I will keep up the good fight, until such time as I am called Home, and brother, let me tell you, almost every day, it gets more and more appealing to hasten that day; I guess the grandkids will need my wife and I for a bit more, so if the Good Lord chooses to have me stick around, I’ll do my best, and fight the forces of ignorance, just as Dr. Williams does.
Again, long, boring, pointless — — — are you sure YouTwitFace has this much storage?
I read through your remarks about Venus and was hit by one thought :’It’s complicated, way complicated” So let’s no longer go there hey ?
I appreciate your frankness about preserving your own anonymity. And actually agree as well. The Greenists are ideologically driven here in Oz just as they are elsewhere in the US & Europe or the UK…
In the past 24 hours since I posted your long comment there has been not one science informed or based reply. Not one. Instead the parade ( 3 people only involved) moved on to making abusive remarks about me. But I’m the moderator so those were all deleted with a warning that any more abusive or ad hominen stuff will lead to them being blocked. One person ( supposedly a scientist ) I muted for a day as a sort of reminder. Nice to exercise that power !
Finally I will copy your paragraph about why you now post anonymously and past it in as a reply comment. I wonder if it will draw a response ?
I was interested in the link that had me watching Jordan Peterson about the EU surviving. I haven’t been a Jordan Peterson watcher but it was interesting even if he lost his beard halfway through the U-tube. I leave it to those interested to follow his “heirachical” theory but I think he is correct that the EU is “too big to survive”.
COP24-time? now it’s the turn of the Red Cross and Red Crescent Societies’ World Disasters Report:
30 Nov: ABC: Chart of the day: Bushfires, cyclones and floods put Australia in the world’s natural disaster top 10
By business reporter Stephen Letts
The 2018 International Federation Red Cross and Red Crescent Societies’ World Disasters Report (LINK) found Australia’s damage bill over the past decade came in at $37 billion (or $US27 billion).
That ranks us 10th in terms of the cost of natural disasters, but still a fair way behind the big three disaster zones: the US, China and Japan which together account for about two-thirds of the total financial cost the IFRC added up between 2008 and 2017.
Our Asia-Pacific region seems to be the most disaster-prone on the planet, being bit by around 40 per cent of the 335 disasters recorded worldwide in 2017 and suffered almost 60 per cent of disaster-related deaths…
CHART
Today thousands of school children walked out of school to protest government inaction on Climate Change.
It’s what their teachers tell them to do.
Tomorrow belongs to them.
I feel sorry for the kids they are being used as emotional blackmail by eco nuts. They (kids) cant understand what they are even protesting about even if its true or not. They are all brainwashed to save the planet. Remember this “give me a child of 7 and Ill give you the man!” Hitler.
29 Nov: ClimateChangeNews: The world’s poorest countries know the Paris Agreement needs strong rules
On behalf of one billion people on the front lines of climate change, we will be pushing for accountability at UN climate talks in Katowice, Poland
By Gebru Jember Endalew
(Gebru Jember Endalew is an Ethiopian negotiator and chair of the least developed countries group at UN climate negotiations)
I chair the group of the 47 least developed countries (LDCs) at the UN climate negotiations. Our countries’ vulnerabilities to climate change mean we are hurt the most by its effects; floods, droughts and storms stunt our development. The science is clear that these impacts – and more – are only going to increase in intensity and frequency. We are among those who suffer the most from climate change, despite contributing the least to its cause…
We are facing a global emergency; the IPCC report on 1.5C made that clearer than ever…
But to enable a bold response from all, rich countries must commit to making more finance available for poor countries. Funds are desperately needed to help communities adapt to a changing climate for which they hold little responsibility, address the loss and the damage it causes, and avoid the dirty development pathways of the past.
Climate finance is a critical issue for the LDC Group. The cost for developing countries to pursue their plans to tackle climate change – the same plans that, in their current form, would still lead to more than 3C of warming – is in the trillions. On this, the lead negotiator on finance, Evans Njewa from Malawi, emphasizes that: “Our countries have ambitious plans for addressing climate change, but we lack the resources to make them a reality. There is an urgent need to scale up finance to meet the actual needs of poor countries.”
30 Nov: SMH: Peter Hannam: Temperatures on track for 5-degree rise by 2100 after another hot year
This year is on course to be the fourth hottest year on record, trailing only the three previous years, as rising levels of greenhouse gases warm the planet, the World Meteorological Organisation said.
Up to October 31, mean temperatures in 2018 were an estimated 0.98 warmer than the average for 1850-1900, according the UN agency’s provisional State of the Global Climate report…
Petteri Taalas, WMO Secretary-General: “Greenhouse gas concentrations are once again at record levels and if the current trend continues we may see temperature increases 3 to 5 degrees by the end of the century.”…
TWEET: 16 Nov: Gavin Schmidt: As I’ve predicted since Jun, 2018 is going to come in as 4th warmest year in the modern record and 4th year in a row more that 1ºC above late 19th Century in GISTEMP…
30 Nov: SMH: Striking students defy PM to protest at inaction on climate change
By Josh Dye; with AAP
Students gathered from 11am in Martin Place in Sydney’s CBD, with loud cheers and chanting whenever a new group arrived. Some families brought picnic blankets and snacks.
A smattering of police officers gathered on the fringes. One was overheard to express his disgust at the idea of skipping school to attend a rally…
Left-wing activist groups handed out signs and posters, trying to insert themselves and their agendas in the student-led campaign…
“Hey hey, ho ho, ScoMo has got to go,” was another chant, referring to Prime Minister Scott Morrison, who this week, condemned the proposed strike.
The NSW Education Department threatened that public school students could face disciplinary action.
“Any student not in classes on a school day will be marked absent and may be subject to the school’s disciplinary code,” a spokesperson said…
Michelle Walker is a teacher at Kinma school in Terrey Hills, on Sydney’s northern beaches. With parental consent, she brought a group of 19 students in years 4-6 to the event.
“They felt strongly about it and asked if they could come down today to express how they felt to the government.”
Ms Walker said her students are encouraged to ask critical questions, and they were “upset” by the Prime Minister’s comments condemning the strike…
Jean Hinchliffe, 14, is a student at Fort Street High in Petersham. She said she was striking “to tell our politicians to stop all new coal and gas projects, including Adani’s mine, and take immediate action to move Australia to 100 per cent renewable energy”.
“As a generation, we are sick of those in power failing to stop the climate crisis. We’ve spent our entire lives hearing the dire warnings. Our future is on the line, and sitting around waiting until we can vote and lead the country just isn’t enough.”…
Ella, 10, had a succinct and eloquent response when asked what she aspired to be.
“I just want to be someone with a voice that can change things,” she said.
“I think it’s stupid that no one has done anything. We could already have solar energy and yet we’re still using coal.”…
Today it blew a bit. Not a major storm but certainly windy. The wind started about 11.30 AM & by 12.15 our power was gone. The gold plated network the greenies are blaming for the huge power cost increases can’t be all that gold plated after all.
We advised Energex, & were given the impression that it should be back in an hour or 2. We were about to get out the little 2 KVA generator, but by 2.30 Energex sounded much less confident. Radio reports said 50,000 without power.
So we got out the 10 KVA diesel gen set. It is a lot of work setting it up to supply the house, the granny flat, the drinking water & grey water systems, but was a wise move. After 9 hours, most of our fridge & freezer food would be stuffed. It looks like tomorrow morning if we are lucky.
There will be 10s of thousands of dollars worth going to the tip tomorrow, thanks to greenies who love trees more than their fellow man. I would love to see the greenies who prevent proper power line clearing made to pay for this waste. At least mine won’t be there with the rest.
It proves the lie of gold plated power supply once & for all. This was just a bit of wind, not some major thunder storm. Meanwhile I sure hope though that the poor buggers further north fighting the bush fires didn’t have to contend with it, it would have made fire fighting very dangerous.
It is like being back in the navy. We don’t run this thing connected to the house without someone being “ON WATCH
North east Victoriastan, have two backup generators and now seriously thinking of getting the sparkie in to wire up a quick connect for those now expected power outs .
We did that last summer, well worth it. Can now connect the gen via simple plug in and switch between grid/off/gen. Makes life simpler inside just controlling essential/non essential with switches and breakers.
28 Nov: BBC: Climate change: EU aims to be ‘climate neutral’ by 2050
By Matt McGrath
Under the plan, emissions of greenhouse gases after that date would have to be offset by planting trees or by burying the gases underground…
The EU says the move will also cut premature air pollution deaths by 40%…
Is everyone in Europe happy with the new strategy?
Not quite…
What happens next?
The EU says there needs to be a debate among member states about how to achieve this long term goal. The plan is to adopt and submit the ambitious strategy to the UN by early 2020.
However any further development could be held up by the fact that a new EU commission will be selected next year. https://www.bbc.com/news/science-environment-46360212
29 Nov: Phys.org: German environment minister backs contentious carbon pricing
by Frank Jordans
Svenja Schulze has clashed over the issue of carbon pricing with other members of the German government, who object to such a levy. But with Germany predicted to miss its 2020 target for cutting greenhouse gases, Schulze said Thursday that “new ideas” needed to be discussed.
Germany lags behind European neighbors such as France, Switzerland and Britain in using taxes to steer companies and consumers away from fossil fuel use, partly for fear of alienating the powerful German auto lobby.
“We need incentives for the transport sector, for the building sector, to behave differently,” Schulze told The Associated Press. “And I think CO2 pricing is the right answer for this.”…
German officials had planned to travel to the talks in Katowice, Poland, with a blueprint for phasing out Germany’s use of coal over the coming decades. But an expert committee examining the issue postponed its report until after the meeting, leaving diplomats with little to showcase… https://phys.org/news/2018-11-german-environment-minister-contentious-carbon.html
29 Nov: WorldNuclearNews: Viewpoint: COP24 can help the climate with nuclear policy action
Agneta Rising, director general of World Nuclear Association, urges policy makers gathered at COP24 – the 24th Session of the Conference of the Parties to the United Nations Framework Convention on Climate Change – to recognise the longstanding role of nuclear power in the low-carbon energy mix.
Climate change is the most significant threat to our planet today…
Nuclear power is a low-carbon source of energy. According to the IPCC, the median lifecycle emissions from nuclear are 12g/kWh, as low as wind energy.
Thanks to nuclear, more than 60 Gt of CO2 emissions have been avoided globally since 1970, equivalent to five years’ worth of CO2 emissions from the electricity sector. Nuclear is the second largest source of low-carbon electricity after hydropower.
The future decarbonisation of the electricity sector is central to tackling climate change: global electricity production accounts for 40% of total emissions and coal and gas still dominate generation, producing 63% of the world’s electricity…
The nuclear industry’s Harmony programme has set a goal for nuclear energy to supply 25% of the world’s electricity by 2050, as part of a low-carbon generation mix. This will need the construction of around 1000 GWe of new nuclear capacity…
Nine nuclear plants with a total capacity of 10.4 GWe have started up so far this year, the highest amount since 1990. In addition, four plants in Japan, with a capacity of 4.5 GWe, restarted this year. Next year, 14 new reactors with a total capacity of nearly 15 GWe are due to start operations…
In total, there are 54 reactors under construction worldwide in 18 countries.
These developments are welcome, but much more is needed…
28 Nov: WorldNuclearNews: Canadian and UK scientists forge closer ties
Canadian Nuclear Laboratories (CNL) and the UK’s Nuclear AMRC have signed a new agreement to develop jointly clean energy and next-generation nuclear technologies.
Mark Lesinski, president and chief executive officer of CNL, and Andrew Storer, chief executive of the Nuclear AMRC, signed the memorandum of understanding (MoU) at the Canada-UK Energy Summit in London, an annual private sector conference that seeks to expand ties between the energy sectors of the two countries…READ ON http://www.world-nuclear-news.org/Articles/Canadian-and-UK-scientists-forge-closer-ties
29 Nov: Financial Times: Macron warns EU-Mercosur deal hangs on Bolsonaro
by Andres Schipani in Buenos Aires
On Thursday in Argentina, Macron said he is unwilling to sign a “broad trade” deal if Brazil’s incoming far-right leader, Jair Bolsonaro, pulls his country out of the Paris climate accord.
“There has been a major political shift in Brazil recently, so Mercosur has to consider the impact of this change,” Mr. Macron said, referring to the election of Mr. Bolsonaro, during a joint press conference with Argentina’s President Mauricio Macri…
“From the French side, I do not agree with signing broad trade agreements with countries that do not respect the Paris agreement,” he added…
“I cannot ask French farmers and workers to change their production habits to lead the ecological transition, then to sign trade agreements with countries that do not do the same. We want balanced agreements,” the French president said…
On Wednesday, Mr. Bolsonaro said he asked the Brazilian government to withdraw an offer to host the United Nations climate conference in 2019. “I recommended my future foreign minister to avoid hosting this event here,” Mr. Bolsonaro said. His future foreign minister has called climate change a Marxist plot…
Mr. Bolsonaro himself has once threatened to withdraw Brazil from the Paris climate agreement, but his current stance on the issue remains unclear… https://www.ft.com/content/da19561c-f41f-11e8-9623-d7f9881e729f
***message to AP and the rest of the FakeNewsMSM – WWF (and Greenpeace) are unelected and they do not rule the world.
by quoting them endlessly, you only add to the suspicion CAGW is a globalist conspiracy!
29 Nov: Yahoo: Brazil withdraws offer to host UN climate change conference
by DIANE JEANTET, ASSOCIATED PRESS
Bolsonaro told reporters late Wednesday that he had recommended to the incoming foreign minister that Brazil not host the event.
“Environmental politics can’t muddle with Brazil’s development,” Bolsonaro said. “Today, the economy is almost back on track thanks to agribusiness, and they are suffocated by environmental questions.”
The ***World Wildlife Fund in Brazil noted that the decision not to host next year’s conference diverged from the position shared by Brazilian officials before the elections, “demonstrating the strong influence of the transition team.”…
The Brazilian candidacy to host next year’s meeting was to be reviewed during this year’s conference, which begins this weekend in Katowice, Poland.
In a statement, the deputy executive secretary of U.N. Climate Change said the next step would be to see if another country in Latin America could host next year’s conference, since it is the region’s turn to do so. If not, the conference will be held in Bonn, Germany, Ovais Sarmad said…
The foreign ministry confirmed to AP that Brazil’s current environment minister would attend the meeting in Poland and said it had no information indicating Bolsonaro’s transition team would send any representative.
Bolsonaro, who takes office Jan. 1, vowed during the campaign to help mining and agribusiness companies expand their activities in protected areas, including Amazonian forests.
His pick for foreign minister, Ernesto Araujo, has also expressed skepticism that climate change is happening.
“This dogma has served to justify an increase in the (…) power of international institutions over national states and their populations,” the incoming minister wrote in an October blog post.
(ALL BUT ONE OF 15 COMMENTS CAGW SCEPTICAL AT TIME OF POSTING) https://www.yahoo.com/news/brazil-withdraws-offer-host-un-climate-change-conference-192608697.html
29 Nov: US News & World Report: AP: Trump Invites Brazil President-Elect Bolsonaro to Visit US
President Donald Trump is inviting the incoming president of Brazil to visit the United States.
White House national security adviser John Bolton says he extended the invitation to Jair Bolsonaro on Trump’s behalf during a “productive” meeting he had with him in South America ahead of the Group of 20 summit of rich and developing nations in Buenos Aires.
Bolton tweeted Thursday he had met with Bolsonaro, who will take office on Jan. 1. The far-right Bolsonaro has often expressed admiration for Trump…
(Bolton) added that “We look forward to a dynamic partnership w/ Brazil.”… https://www.usnews.com/news/world/articles/2018-11-29/trump-invites-brazil-president-elect-bolsonaro-to-visit-us
just noting the timeline:
28 Nov: Rio Times: Brazil Withdraws Candidacy to Host UN’s COP-25 in 2019
Stating fiscal and budgetary constraints Brazil’s Itamaraty announced it was withdrawing the country’s candidacy less than fifteen days after the Environment Ministry had confirmed the desire to host the annual climate change conference
By Lise Alves
Less than fifteen days after announcing that it wanted to host the United Nation’s 25th Climate Conference, to be held in 2019, Brazil’s Foreign Service Ministry (better known as Itamaraty) released a statement that it was backing down from the candidacy.
“In view of the current fiscal and budgetary constraints, which are expected to remain in the near future, and the transition process for the newly elected administration, to start on January 1st, 2019, the Brazilian government was forced to withdraw its candidacy to host COP 25,” says the Itamaraty note.
At the beginning of November the Ministry of Environment had announced that the candidacy confirmed Brazil’s leading role in sustainable development issues, especially in relation to climate change, and ‘reflected the consensus of Brazilian society on the importance and urgency of actions that contribute in combating climate change’… https://riotimesonline.com/brazil-news/rio-politics/brazil-withdraws-candidacy-to-host-uns-cop-25-in-2019/
“Rio Times: Brazil Withdraws Candidacy to Host UN’s COP-25 in 2019”, interesting since Rio hosted the Earth Summit 1992, where the official ‘agenda’ was setup.
China specialists who long supported engagement are now warning of Beijing’s attempt to influence American society
Washington Post – 29 Nov 2018
Engagement with China is failing. Time for ‘constructive vigilance’
Washington Post – 29 Nov 2018
China’s ominous plan to ‘penetrate and sway the United States
Washington Post – 29 Nov 2018
Scholars warn of Chinese influence operations in US
Wall Street Journal – 28 Nov 2018
Group proposes limiting visas for Chinese media and scholars unless Americans can operate more freely in China
by Kate O’Keefffe
WASHINGTON—An influential group of China experts called for Americans to acknowledge what it described as a growing threat of Beijing-sponsored influence operations in the U.S. The cohort also proposed restricting visas for Chinese media and scholars unless their American counterparts are allowed to operate more freely in China.
In a new report, 32 longtime China watchers warned that the Chinese Communist Party’s efforts to influence U.S. universities, media, think tanks and companies…
29 Nov: NPR Morning Edition: Beijing Is Pushing Hard To Influence U.S. Views Of China, Report Says
by Rob Schmitz
Beijing is mounting an aggressive influence campaign targeting multiple levels of American society, according to a report published Thursday that is written by some of the top China experts in the U.S.
The working group that compiled the report includes scholars who for decades have agreed that as long as the U.S. continued to engage the People’s Republic of China, the paths of both countries would eventually converge and that when they did, China’s political system would become more transparent and its society more open.
However, as China’s economy climbed to unprecedented heights, President Xi Jinping has consolidated power, and in the eyes of the report’s authors, the idea of convergence has been put to rest.
As Xi took office in 2013, China “began to take a very different path forward,” says Orville Schell, a China scholar who co-chairs the working group that produced the 200-page report, “Chinese Influence and American Interests.” (LINK)…
The report is sponsored by Stanford University’s Hoover Institution, the Annenberg Foundation Trust at Sunnylands and the Center on U.S.-China Relations at the Asia Society in New York, which Schell directs…
One section of the report examines the large amounts of money China’s government and Chinese individuals who are loyal to the Communist Party are investing into U.S. universities…
“[Very] often, that money will come not with any explicit prohibitions, but with implicit ones,” says Schell.
“[If] you want to get more (money), don’t say this, don’t say that. In other words,” he says. As a result, China aims for “modulating and controlling what people say about it and how they view it.”
China’s government has, with the help of dozens of U.S. universities, established 110 Confucius Institutes on campuses throughout the United States. The institutes are forced to use Communist Party-approved materials “that promote PRC Chinese viewpoints, terminology and simplified characters; the avoidance of discussion on controversial topics such as Tibet, Tiananmen, Xinjiang, the Falun Gong, and human rights in American classrooms and programs,” the report says.
Several U.S. universities, such as the University of Chicago and the Texas A&M system, have had second thoughts about the Confucius Institute and have closed their branches. The report suggests that U.S. institutions rewrite their contracts with their Chinese government partner by eliminating a clause that stipulates Confucius Institutes must operate according to China’s laws…
Another section examines how Hollywood has come under the influence of Chinese investment and, as a result, now routinely makes films that portray China’s government in a favorable light.
Whereas in 1997, films such as Red Corner, Seven Years in Tibet, and Kundun addressed topics the Chinese government deemed sensitive, now Hollywood studios are teaming up with Chinese partners to make films such as The Martian, a blockbuster hit backed by Chinese money in which the Chinese government saves the American protagonists.
“The rush of Chinese investment into the American film industry,” the report concludes, “has raised legitimate concerns bout the industry’s outright loss of independence.”…
It also urges Americans to act with integrity when Chinese state-sponsored actors try to coerce them or manipulate America’s core principles. “Openness and freedom are fundamental elements of American democracy and intrinsic strengths of the United States and its way of life,” the report concludes. “These values must be protected against corrosive actions by China and other countries.” https://www.npr.org/2018/11/29/671796941/beijing-is-pushing-hard-to-influence-u-s-views-of-china-report-says
the main WaPo article is carried by Straits Times…read all:
29 Nov: Straits Times: WASHINGTON POST: China specialists now warning of Beijing’s efforts to influence American society
Most noteworthy is the roster of contributors to the report, many of whom have been leading advocates of engagement. It includes former US ambassador to China Winston Lord, who accompanied Dr Henry Kissinger on his secret 1971 trip to Beijing that paved the way for China’s opening to the West; activist and journalist Orville Schell, who has worked on US-China relations over the past half-century; and senior director for Asia Evan Medeiros at the National Security Council in the Obama administration.
“It’s not as though this is a bunch of hostile, anti-Chinese people,” Mr Lord said. “Yet all of us have become more pessimistic about the trends and feel that we’re at a crossroads in the relationship.”
The turnabout is profound, some working-group members said…
“It speaks to the disillusionment of an entire generation of China specialists who thought they were helping China emerge onto the world stage only to discover that the project had gone badly awry,” said contributor James Mulvenon, an expert on Chinese economic espionage and general manager at the defence contractor SOS International…
The sharper tone from US specialists comes as the Trump administration has recast China as one of two main strategic threats – the other being Russia. It has made countering Chinese military and economic aggression a top priority…
The report echoes themes that Vice-President Mike Pence raised in an October speech. “Beijing is employing a whole-of-government approach, using political, economic and military tools, as well as propaganda, to advance its influence and benefit its interests in the United States,” Mr Pence said…
Mr Pence and the working group noted the Chinese Communist Party’s efforts to foster censorship in academia. Both referred to the Chinese Students and Scholars Association, which operates on American campuses. Besides organising cultural events, the group alerts Chinese diplomats when Chinese students stray from the Communist Party line and when there are lectures or programmes on campus it deems offensive… https://www.straitstimes.com/world/united-states/china-specialists-now-warning-of-beijings-efforts-to-influence-american-society
the report, linked in the NPR article above, was mentioned on Laura Ingraham’s Fox show today. she interviewed Michael Pillsbury, American Director of the Center on Chinese Strategy, Hudson Institute, who briefed Trump on meeting with Xi before he left for G20.
Pillsbury mentioned the report is more remarkable before it’s basically leftists who have written it and they’ve been wrong for 40 years. Pillsbury also said Trump didn’t need the briefing because he laid out his position on China in a book years ago.
Wikipedia: Pillsbury is the author of three books on China. The most recent one, The Hundred-Year Marathon, is an international bestseller and was number one on the Washington Post list…
On September 26, 2018 U.S. President Donald Trump described Michael Pillsbury as “the leading authority on China.”…
Article over on WUWT about the professional Engineers body in Scotland coming out about the potential collapse of their grid with the radical and piecemeal implementation of intermittents. Managing black starts gets mentioned a couple of times.
Congratulations to everyone are in order thanks for the slight increase in life giving Co2 in Oz , but we need to do better please the plants are starving so give till it hurts and the heads of watermelons explode .
I’m more concerned about the cooling that’s happening in many areas. If the trend continues there will be massive food shortages and will make even the exaggerated claims by the warmists pale into insignificance.
Her work on climate and the solar magnetic field hypothesis revealed four pairs of dynamo waves, the pair with the highest eigenvalues are called principal components (PCs). These PCs are produced by magnetic dipoles in inner and outer layers of the sun. The second pair of waves is assumed produced by quadruple magnetic sources for example. These PC waves are closely related to the average sunspot number index. Her prediction is cooling over the next 10 or so years.
Herein we show that the historical records of mid-latitude auroras from 1700
to 1966 present oscillations with periods of about 9, 10–11, 20–21, 30 and
60 years. The same frequencies are found in proxy and instrumental global
surface temperature records since 1650 and 1850, respectively, and in
several planetary and solar records. We argue that the aurora records reveal
a physical link between climate change and astronomical oscillations. Likely
in addition to a Soli-Lunar tidal effect, there exists a planetary
modulation of the heliosphere, of the cosmic ray flux reaching the Earth
and/or of the electric properties of the ionosphere. The latter, in turn,
has the potentiality of modulating the global cloud cover that ultimately
drives the climate oscillations through albedo oscillations. In particular,
a quasi-60-year large cycle is quite evident since 1650 in all climate and
astronomical records herein studied, …”
The warmists have a problem..RECORD cold in the NH! In Nth America cold records are falling like a house of cards. Totally ignored here by the alarmist MSM. Extreme conditions are more likely in a cooling system, due to a grand solar minimum, as the jet streams move more erratically.
Adani declares Carmichael project 100% financed
November 29, 2018News Ben Creagh
India’s Adani Group plans to fund the entire Carmichael coal mine and rail project in the Galilee Basin in Queensland itself, Adani Mining chief executive officer Lucas Dow has revealed.
Dow, speaking at a Bowen Basin Mining Club event in Mackay, said the Adani Group decision followed changes to simplify construction and reduce the initial capital requirements for the Carmichael project.
Construction and operation of the mine would begin in the next few weeks, he added. The updated plan is expected to involve an initial investment of $2 billion on a smaller than previously planned mine, with annual production of 10–15 million tonnes of thermal coal.
There’s mud in your eye, infantile Australian financiers!
Further in The Australian is that 4 or 5 other projects are about to start in the same area.
Stiil our emissions won’t suffer, all that coal will be burnt in India, China, Vietnam etc. so doesn’t count.
29 Nov: Reuters: Poland plans new coal mine as climate talks loom
Poland will start investing in a new coal mine next year in the south of the country, Deputy Energy Minister Grzegorz Tobiszowski said on Thursday, a few days before U.N. climate talks start there in one of the country’s most polluted cities.
“We’re planning an investment next year in building a new coal mine in Silesia, as this could make sense,” Tobiszowski told a press conference. He declined to give any further details.
“Poland needs coal and either this will be our coal or from outside,” Tobiszowski also said, referring to Poland’s increased coal imports, mostly from Russia as domestic production has fallen…
“I don’t see that in 2050 there will be no coal-fueled power plants in Poland. The life span of power plants will not end in 2050,” Energy Minister Krzysztof Tchorzewski told the same press conference…
Poland’s ruling Law and Justice (PiS) party, which won the 2015 election partly on a promise to support coal production, argues Poland cannot afford a sudden U-turn and needs the transition to greener energy to be gradual…
30 Nov: Reuters: Bulgarian miners march to protect coal production
Miners and workers at Bulgaria’s largest coal-fired power plant Maritsa East 2 marched in Sofia on Thursday to protect their jobs and to urge the government to support coal-fired energy production in the Balkan country.
More than 1,000 (“HUNDREDS” SAYS AP; 2,000 says BALKANINSIGHT) people urged the government to guarantee it would not shut mines and power plants at Maritsa East lignite coal complex in southern Bulgaria, despite a European Union push to decarbonise the bloc’s economy by 2050.
“It looks like they may start closing units one by one, because of the convention that forces us to cut the harmful emissions,” said Katia Vassileva, 45, a worker at Maritsa East 2, adding that Bulgaria was having to pay a heavy price to buy the carbon permits to make up for emissions from the plant.
A spike in the price of European carbon permits has widened financial losses of the state-owned 1,620 megawatt Maritsa East 2, increasing workers’ fears of eventual closure.
They say any move to shut the plant could cause power shortages or a spike in power prices. Coal-fired plants produce more than 40 percent of Bulgaria’s electricity. The government has said it would work to ensure they continued to operate…
Bulgaria’s two major trade unions say the European Commission has set a pace for creating a greener economy that was too fast and too costly for the Balkan country.
“We need to find a solution, because it is not fair for the poorer countries,” said Vladimir Topalov, head of the miners federation at Podkrepa trade unions…
Trade unions say the mine complex provides livelihoods for more than 100,000 people in the European Union’s poorest member…
“Bulgaria cannot allow itself to lose competitiveness in the energy sector and will work to defend the social right of the people working in it,” President Rumen Radev, who will present Bulgaria’s position at Katowice, wrote in his Facebook account… https://www.reuters.com/article/us-bulgaria-coal-protests/bulgarian-miners-march-to-protect-coal-production-idUSKCN1NY1TN
29 Nov: DeSmogUK: Climate Scientist Michael Mann Releases Emails Ahead of University of Arizona Response to E&E Legal
By Michael Mann
Nearly a decade ago, in late 2009, a server at the University of East Anglia was hacked and thousands of emails from the university’s Climatic Research Unit were subsequently released in the run-up to the Copenhagen climate talks. Within these thousands of emails, climate change deniers attempted to cherry-pick a few sentences to falsely suggest scientific malfeasance. This so-called “Climategate” incident managed to briefly cast doubt on the public’s acceptance of the scientific realities of climate change. But ultimately, numerous investigations found there was no wrongdoing, and the media storm was found to only have a fleeting public impact…
In increasingly desperate attempts to recreate this short-lived machination, there have since been repeated efforts to obtain my and other climate scientists’ emails via fishing expeditions through misuse of the legal system. Led by David Schnare, one coal-funded group masquerading as a think tank — which currently goes by the name of Energy & Environment Legal Institute (E&E Legal) — brought a lawsuit in Virginia seeking to obtain virtually every email I had ever sent or received during the six years I was a professor at the University of Virginia.
The case was struck down by the Virginia Supreme Court, but E&E Legal has continued to essentially relitigate the matter in friendlier forums. E&E Legal targeted two other prominent climate scientists at the University of Arizona, Jonathan Overpeck and Malcolm Hughes (the latter being one of my longtime co-authors), seeking a total of 13 years of emails from them, including correspondence with or about me or my research.
I have fought repeatedly to protect myself and other researchers, and our emails, from groups like E&E Legal who have no interest whatsoever in legitimate scientific discourse but instead seek to misrepresent and malign scientists in an effort to undermine the public’s faith in climate science.
E&E Legal will no doubt post the Arizona emails once they receive them, distributing them online with a series of misleading and disingenuous mischaracterizations, choosing a few phrases here and there to misrepresent me and other scientists and to falsely accuse us of all manner of misdeeds.
Consequently, I am sharing my emails here (LINK)(enter “mail_guest” for both username and password). Moreover, a group of independent climate science experts have gone through the emails providing context for interpreting the exchanges and discussions contained within.
Of course, I wish I did not need to do this.
But since these emails will be handed over any day now to David Schnare, it is our hope to use this exercise instead as a teaching moment and an opportunity to further public appreciation and understanding of science, by
(a) using these emails to show how scientists are making an honest and diligent effort to understand the science underlying Earth’s climate system,
(b) showing how scientists are engaged in the good-faith give-and-take that is central to the scientific enterprise, which includes appropriate skepticism and critical assessment not only of other scientists’ work but our own, as evident through internal deliberations between the scientists, and
(c) demonstrating the understandable frustration that scientists have with those who intentionally misrepresent them and their research for the purpose of advancing an ideological agenda. https://www.desmogblog.com/2018/11/29/michael-mann-statement-arizona-emails-released-eeli?utm_campaign=Carbon%20Brief%20Daily%20Briefing&utm_medium=email&utm_source=Revue%20newsletter
28 Nov: Washington Times: Obama official helped prepare dire National Climate Assessment
By Valerie Richardson
A former Obama administration official with ties to a liberal advocacy group funded by Democratic megadonors George Soros and Tom Steyer helped prepare the Fourth National Climate Assessment, whose dire predictions have since been attacked as overblown.
Andrew Light, who worked on the 2015 Paris accord negotiations as a senior adviser to the U.S. Special Envoy on Climate Change under Secretary of State John F. Kerry, served as a review editor for the assessment, overseeing the pivotal final chapter that concluded under a worst-case scenario that global warming could wipe out as much as 10 percent of the U.S. economy by 2100.
Now a senior fellow at the World Resources Institute, Mr. Light also spent five years as senior fellow and director of international climate policy at the Center for American Progress, which was founded and now led by longtime Democratic insider John Podesta. The center is also financed by liberal billionaires such as Mr. Soros and Mr. Steyer.
The involvement of Mr. Light and other figures known for their climate change advocacy has raised questions about the credibility of the report, which has been widely depicted as a politically neutral, scientific document prepared by disinterested specialists from 13 federal agencies.
Roger A. Pielke Jr., University of Colorado Boulder environmental studies professor, criticized the decision to bring in Mr. Light, as well as the report’s reliance for the 10 percent figure on a 2017 study funded in part by Mr. Steyer’s Next Generation and Bloomberg Philanthropies.
“The question remains, whose idea was it to have John Podesta’s climate adviser and Obama political appointee be in charge of the review of the most important chapter, which leans heavily on Tom Steyer research?” Mr. Pielke said in an email…
Mr. Light has no formal academic scientific credentials — he earned his Ph.D. in philosophy — but noted that he completed a three-year postdoctoral research fellowship in environmental risk assessment.
“I believe I was selected as a Review Editor because for over fifteen years I have been working on domestic and international environmental, climate, and energy policy,” he said. “I have authored or co-authored over a dozen policy reports in this area, participated and led several important dialogues and projects in this field, and made substantial contributions to climate and energy agreements.”
Mr. Light denied being in charge of the chapter, saying it would be “inaccurate to say that I was responsible for any of the content.”
He made the media rounds after the report was released, with both CBS News and Bloomberg News calling him the report’s “co-author,” which he said was incorrect.
The report lists more than 200 authors and contributors, most of them federal employees but also dozens from universities, advocacy groups, foundations, think tanks and consulting firms specializing in advising governments and businesses on climate change adaptation and resilience.
The advocacy groups include the Union of Concerned Scientists, National Wildlife Federation, Nature Conservancy, Ocean Conservancy, and Arctic Institute. Others involved with the report are affiliated with the Brookings Institution, the Paulson Institute, and the Rand Corp., as well as the Kresge and Packard foundations.
Absent were prominent scientists affiliated with top research universities who have challenged catastrophic climate scenarios, such as John Christy, Judith Curry, William Happer, Richard Lindzen, Roger A. Pielke Sr. and Roy Spencer.
Mr. Light said review editors were selected by the National Climate Assessment federal steering committee from candidates nominated by others or themselves.
“Anyone could be nominated for the role of Review Editor or they could self-nominate,” he said…
Skeptics, meanwhile, have blasted the report as “tripe” (Greenpeace co-founder Patrick Moore), a “400-page pile of crap” (Heartland Institute’s John Dunn), “irrelevant” (JunkScience’s Steven J. Milloy), and “baseless scaremongering” (Watts Up With That’s Eric Worrall).
“The National Climate Assessment report reads like a press release from environmental pressure groups — because it is,” said Marc Morano, author of “The Politically Incorrect Guide to Climate Change.”
He described two of the authors — Texas Tech professor Katharine Hayhoe and Donald J. Wuebbles of the University of Illinois — as “longtime Union of Concerned Scientist activists.”…
“These are not ‘Trump’s own scientists’ as the media likes to claim,” Mr. Morano said. “The key authors are in fact left-wing environmental activists with the Union of Concerned Scientists, Center for American Progress, and the Obama Administration. And they cited outlier studies funded by Steyer and [Michael] Bloomberg.”…
Mr. Pielke, who has described climate change as “real” and Mr. Trump as “wrong” on the issue, said the estimate was not only “implausible,” but also was contradicted elsewhere in the assessment.
“The report obviously fell short in its quality control,” Mr. Pielke said. “Why this happened should be explored, but clearly it would have benefited from expanding its leadership beyond the ‘climate club.’” https://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2018/nov/28/andrew-light-obama-official-helped-prepare-dire-na/
28 Nov: Daily Caller: James Taylor: OPINION: Obama-Era Holdovers Issue Fake News Climate Report
(James Taylor is senior fellow for environment and climate policy at The Heartland Institute)
Obama-era deep-state bureaucrats have issued a dubious climate report that warns of imminent devastation from global warming. The report presents discredited assertions from environmental activist groups as “evidence” to support its findings, as well as predictions of temperature change and extreme weather events that have already been contradicted by real-world data…
The USGCRP’s steering committee and authors are composed almost entirely of Obama-era deep-state holdovers. The two lead authors for the report — prominent, controversial global warming activists Don Wuebbles and Katherine Hayhoe — were put in place by the Obama administration.
Ignoring embarrassing mistakes made by the United Nations Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change (IPCC), the USGCRP decided to rely on non-peer reviewed propaganda ‘grey papers’ published by leftist climate alarmists.
The USGCRP explains its report is “complemented by other sources (such as gray literature) where appropriate.” The IPCC has a history of making sensational assertions — that it since had to explain, revise, and retract — based on grey papers.
The USGCRP has also followed the United Nations’ lead of relying on environmental activist groups and environmental activist group staffers to justify its outlandish assertions…
Pointing out a preposterous claim in the report that global warming will increase global temperatures by 14 degrees Fahrenheit and reduce U.S. gross domestic product by 10 percent, climate scientist Roger Pielke observed, “Shouldn’t such an outlandish, outlier conclusion been caught in the review process? Not a good look that sole review editor for this chapter is an alum of the Center for American Progress … which is funded by Tom Steyer.”
“By presenting cherrypicked science, at odds w/ NCA Vol,1 & IPCC AR5, the authors of NCA Vol.2 have given a big fat gift to anyone who wants to dismiss climate science and policy,” Pielke added…
I know it is inconvenient to look at links that go to charts but go back to comment #13 and you see just how outrageous our NCA is. I think the authors should be humiliated for issuing such a piece of crap.
29 Nov: Financial Times: New technologies, not Paris climate agreement, will do the job
A credible climate action plan needs the truth, not spin, about costs
by Dieter Helm
(Dieter Helm is Professor of Economic Policy at the University of Oxford and author of Burn Out: The End Game for Fossil Fuels, published by Yale University Press)
Since climate change began to gain political traction in 1990, very little has been achieved. The concentration of carbon in the atmosphere has kept going up.
Lots of money has been spent, vested interests have profited, but the reality is that we remain well on course for exceeding 2C warming. Levels of carbon dioxide in the atmosphere have already breached 400 parts per million and we are on our way to 500…
It’s time for a rethink. The claim that global decarbonisation can be done at little or no cost is nonsense. On the contrary, switching from an overwhelmingly carbon to a non-carbon-based economy in the space of just two or three decades is really (REALLY REALLY) expensive…
The political fact is that, while voters tell us they care about the climate, their concern fades quickly when they are told it is going to increase their electricity bills…
In France, the protests about the rising cost of diesel, driven by the carbon tax, dwarf those by climate change activists. There is no government in any of the major emitters — pre-eminently China, but also India, Africa and the US — that could maintain popular support on the basis of a carbon tax necessary to meet the 1.5C target — and that is the cheapest way of achieving it…
In China, the world’s biggest polluter, emissions rose sharply again in 2017. It is closing in on 1,000 gigawatts of coal-fired electricity generation. Another 250GW is being added and China is financing over 200 coal plants abroad…
Add in what is going on in India and Africa, and it is plain to see where we are heading. No number of wind farms in the North Sea can offset this. The Europeans are squeezing carbon production at home but not necessarily cutting their carbon footprint, if carbon consumption goes up from imported goods instead…
***The real challenge is to persuade the public that they should take a hit now — and hence spend less to make room for investment — for a benefit after 2050…
Crucial world leaders — including presidents Donald Trump of the US, Vladimir Putin of Russia, Xi Jinping of China, and president-elect Jair Bolsonaro of Brazil — are not sympathetic to multilateral policies driven by the UN… https://www.ft.com/content/8ffe8e52-e421-11e8-a8a0-99b2e340ffeb
Yes we need to spend much more to tackle climate change – perhaps trillions more. Meanwhile the real problems of today are being ignored. There are lies, damned lies, statistics and then there are political CAGW believers. George Orwell if alive today would have said something along the lines “I told you so”.
29 Nov: Daily Caller: Peter Hasson: EXCLUSIVE: Google Employees Debated Burying Conservative Media In Search
•Google employees debated whether to bury The Daily Caller and other conservative media outlets in the company’s search function as a response to President Donald Trump’s election
•“Let’s make sure that we reverse things in four years,” one engineer wrote in a thread that included a Google vice president
•Google employees similarly sought to manipulate search results to combat Trump’s travel ban
The Daily Caller and Breitbart were specifically singled out as outlets to potentially bury, the communications reveal.
29 Nov: Gateway Pundit: Thanks to President Trump – After a Decade Absence – The US is Once Again the World’s Most Competitive Economy!
by Joe Hoft
The US is great again! Trump economy making the US the most competitive economy on the planet!
30 Nov: Yahoo7 News: Two men charged with arson amid raging Queensland fires
Two men have been arrested accused of deliberately lighting fires near Rockhampton, while hundreds of firefighters put their lives on the line to fight the flames.
Locals spotted one man acting suspiciously at Bouldercombe and helped police make an arrest.
The alleged arsonist was captured and taken to Rockhampton hospital, suffering burns to his hands.
The 27-year-old is the second man this week to be arrested for allegedly starting a fire in the region.
A disease sweeping through Chinese hog herds is helping negate the effects of the trade war for American farmers, with U.S. pork sales to the Asian nation back to levels before tariffs were introduced.
“This is a game changer,” said Dennis Smith, a senior account executive at Archer Financial Services Inc. “
It gives confirmation that the disease is far worse than what we’ve been told.”
“This is the point: the federal government produces figures on the “levelized cost of energy,” comparing coal, natural gas, nuclear, wind, solar and so on. Most people naively assume that the government’s numbers are authoritative. In fact, as usual when it comes to energy, the government’s thumb is firmly on the scale in favor of crony energy that funds politicians…”
What is interesting is how the fires start in the first place (not after fires starting from embers spreading). Even 100C cant start a fire it needs ignition temp.
Lightning? Human?
Wind blown tree branches onto power lines..
Sunshine onto disgarded glass bottles in dry grass…
Kids cannot resist playing with matches and lighters
Etc. etc.
More tall tales from our socialist broadcaster .
Things that stand out are the green grass in background and foreground as he checks the rain gauge and whatever you do don’t zoom in on his tally for November rainfall .
France joins communist China and UN socialist Guterres to make a statement!
30 Nov: ClimateChangeNews: France and China declare joint climate commitment at G20
The major economies promised to work together to set robust rules for the Paris Agreement sending a political boost ahead of crucial UN talks next week
By Megan Darby; Additional reporting from Karl Mathiesen
In a statement together with UN secretary-general Antonio Guterres, foreign ministers of the two countries promised to work together to put the international climate pact into action.
It struck a markedly greener tone than the ambivalent draft G20 declaration circulated ahead of the meeting. Climate Home News understands that text is still open for negotiation as talks between the 20 major economies enter their final day.
Ministers Jean-Yves Le Drian and Wang Yi said they hoped the G20 summit would “give a political impetus to the success of Cop24”, the UN climate negotiations starting in Katowice, Poland on Sunday…
Citing the stark message of the recent Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change report, it said “there are only a few years left, far less than a generation, to make the transition towards a sustainable and ecological civilization a reality”
A summit to be hosted by Guterres at the UN’s New York headquarters next September will be “a defining moment to accelerate action,” they added.
At a G20 meeting dominated by trade tension between China and the US, Beijing was using climate change to build bridges with other global powers, said Li Shuo, a policy analyst from Greenpeace East Asia.
***“From the Chinese perspective, it highlights continued high-level political interest to leverage the climate and broader environmental agenda for geopolitical gain,” he said.
AgenceNewsPress: Déclaration de presse sur le changement climatique, à l’issue de la rencontre entre Jean-Yves Le Drian, Wang Yi et António Guterres
Jean-Yves LE DRIAN Ministère de l’Europe et des Affaires étrangères-30/11/2018 17:35:00 http://www.newspress.fr/Communique_FR_309974_7073.aspx
30 Nov: WashingtonTimes: China, France take on U.S. stance over climate at summit
By Frederic Puglie – Special to The Washington Times
The announcement, in line with the climate “battle” French President Emmanuel Macron said he was waging earlier this year, is seen as a broadside to Mr. Trump, who dubbed the Paris deal “terrible” and “a disaster” before he announced plans to withdraw from the global compact…
While he welcomed the Franco-Chinese effort, Argentine Environment Secretary Sergio Bergman told The Washington Times that bringing the United States back into the fold would be key — and that required “respecting” Mr. Trump’s views.
“Building consensus doesn’t mean that nobody thinks differently,” he said. “What matters is that, at the end of the day, we proceed with a common agenda.” https://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2018/nov/30/china-france-take-us-stance-over-climate-summit/
1 Dec: Xinhua: China urges responsibility, action, coordination in tackling climate change
China, together with France and the UN, will strive for comprehensive and balanced outcomes from the COP24 and make greater contributions to a clean, beautiful world as well as a community of shared future, Wang said.
While reiterating China’s pursuit of green, low-carbon and sustainable development, he urged all parties to fulfill their commitments and step up their efforts against global warming.
Le Drian, for his part, said France would like to work with China more on climate change, which shall include three-party cooperation to help other developing countries go green and low-carbon.
During the meeting, Guterres expressed gratitude to China for its vital leadership on climate change, as well as to both China and France for their leading roles in the face of this global challenge. http://www.xinhuanet.com/english/2018-12/01/c_137643217.htm
30 Nov: DiarioDoCentroDoMundo: Bolsonaro responds to Macron and says he will not make agreements that would harm agribusiness
by Agência Brasil
The president-elect, Jair Bolsonaro, said today (30) that he does not intend to take on environmental commitments that impact Brazilian agribusiness.
The response was a reaction to statements by French President Emmanuel Macron that has conditioned the progress of negotiations between the European Union and Mercosur on the position of the elected government on the Paris Climate Agreement.
“Macron is defending France. This Mercosur agreement with the European Union affects the interests of France, a country also focused on agribusiness. From the moment they want to decrease the amount of our exportable, these commodities, logically they can not count on our support. But it is not a definite no, we will negotiate, “said Bolsonaro, after attending the graduation ceremony of Air Force sergeants in Guaratinguetá, in the interior of São Paulo…
On Twitter, Bolsonaro had already posted a message stating that “it is out of the question” that the country automatically subjects itself to the interests of other nations. “Automatically subjecting our territory, laws, and sovereignty to placements of other nations is out of the question. It is legitimate for countries in the world to defend their interests and we will be willing to dialogue always, but we will defend the interests of Brazil and Brazilians, “he said in a message on the social network. https://www.diariodocentrodomundo.com.br/essencial/bolsonaro-responde-a-macron-e-diz-que-nao-fara-acordos-que-prejudiquem-agronegocio/
French government’s bid to negotiate with ‘yellow vests’ ends in farce
The Local France-8 hours ago
but it appears to be this AFP piece:
30 Nov: GulfTimes: AFP: French Govt fails to negotiate with ‘yellow vest’ movement
Attempts by the French government to negotiate with the “yellow vest” movement responsible for weeks of protests over taxes and the high cost of living turned into a fiasco yesterday after just two representatives turned up for a meeting with the prime minister and one immediately walked out.
The failed talks came on the eve of a planned rally in Paris of thousands of demonstrators, one week after a violent protest left the Champs-Elysees in shambles.
Prime Minister Edouard Philippe had invited eight representatives of the protesters…for the talks in a bid to take heat out of a revolt that has galvanised opposition to President Emmanuel Macron’s liberal economic policies.
However, only two turned up for the talks at the prime minister’s office, with one walking out after being told that he could not invite TV cameras in to broadcast the encounter live to the nation.
Asked later by reporters what his demands were, Jason Herbert said: “We want our dignity back and we want to be able to live from our work, which is absolutely not the case today.”
Herbert said the two representatives who had turned up for the meeting had received “physical and verbal threats” from other protesters, some of whom are opposed in principle to having appointed leaders.
Emerging from an hour of talks with the second representative, Philippe said the pair mainly discussed spending power and that his door “will always remain open” for dialogue.
One of the difficulties faced by the government in seeking to talk to protesters is that the mainly-spontaneous grassroots movement, organised through social media, has steadfastly refused to align with any political party or trade union.
Macron has refused to back down on his anti-pollution taxes, part of his effort to green the economy.
Speaking on the sidelines of the G20 summit in Argentina yesterday, he said that he understood “the legitimate anger, the impatience and the suffering of some people” and called for more time to organise consultations on how to transform France into a low-carbon economy without penalising the poor.
He also warned that any measures announced “in the coming weeks and months” would “never be a retreat” on policy…
Yesterday Minister for Overseas Territories Annick Girardin, who was on a peace mission of her own to quieten the protests in the Indian Ocean island of Reunion, was forced to cut short a meeting with demonstrators after being booed by protesters shouting “Macron, resign!”…
However, the president’s refusal to back down on a planned increase in anti-pollution taxes on fuel set to take effect in January has hardened the resolve of many protesters, including in Reunion, one of the poorest parts of France.
Demonstrators there have blocked roads across the island over the past two weeks, crippling the local economy.
On the mainland, the government is bracing for further possible rioting when demonstrators return to the Champs-Elysees today to press their demands, which include a moratorium on fuel tax increases, an increase in the minimum wage and a national housing insulation plan.
The government has said it will allow the Champs-Elysees protest, but the avenue will be closed to traffic and protesters searched by police before being allowed onto the avenue. https://www.gulf-times.com/story/614746/French-govt-fails-to-negotiate-with-yellow-vest-mo
30 Nov: Reuters: Brussels police battle “yellow vest” protesters
by Clement Rossignol, Yves Herman
Belgian police fired water cannon and teargas in central Brussels on Friday to drive back protesters inspired by France’s “yellow vest” anti-tax movement who hurled rocks at the prime minister’s office.
Police made dozens of arrests and protesters destroyed at least two police vans as what started as a peaceful but unauthorised demonstration, lacking clear leadership and largely promoted on social media, descended into violence when people, many masked or hooded, tried to breach police lines.
For three hours, crowds complaining about fuel prices and a squeeze on living standards had disrupted traffic and walked the streets. Police said they had arrested about 60 people before the violence, mostly for blocking roads or carrying large fireworks.
Several hundred people wearing the fluorescent safety vests drivers must carry in their vehicles eventually converged on the office of Prime Minister Charles Michel. Dozens, many of them masked, threw rocks, firecrackers and road signs at police who doused them with high-pressure water jets and fired gas rounds.
The disturbances lasted over an hour before riot police surrounded and then arrested some demonstrators while the rest of the crowd dispersed. Police put the total number of protesters at about 500.
Three individuals were kept in detention after the protests, police said in a statement, adding that other judicial decisions could be made in the following hours.
Michel tweeted: “No impunity for unacceptable violence in Brussels. Those who came to smash and loot must be punished.”
Protests in Belgium, notably around fuel depots in the French-speaking south, have been inspired by the yellow vest — or “gilet jaune” — actions in France against increases in fuel duty imposed by President Emmanuel Macron’s government as part of efforts to reduce emissions causing global warming.
30 Nov: UK Telegraph: Brussels protesters attack PM’s office as Paris braces for more ‘yellow vest’ unrest
by James Crisp & Henry Samuel
The Belgian protests came as France prepared for “Act 3” of nationwide protests against “green” fuel tax hikes and the high cost of living. These are showing little sign of abating after talks between yellow vest representatives and the prime minister ended in fiasco…
***Metro stations were closed as a precaution as the protest teetered on the brink of street-fighting, despite the demonstrators’ repeated insistence their march was peaceful…
Troublemakers were chased away from the Belgian equivalent of Downing St by riot police, water cannons and tear gas. Stones were thrown in return, but some insisted by masked troublemakers and not the “yellow vests”…
Later, loud bangs rang out as protesters marched down Brussels’ busiest road throwing firecrackers, chanting football songs and being honked by supportive and furious drivers…
***“We want this movement to spread,” said Gilles, who did not want to give his surname. “It began in France, it is here now, and we want it to continue to Germany and the Netherlands, across Europe, even to England.”…
Over in Paris, builders were busy boarding up flagship banks and stores along the Champs-Elysées as “the world’s most beautiful avenue” braced for its third straight Saturday of violence…
Caught woefully off guard last Saturday, police are taking no chances this time: they have mobilised up to 5,000 officers, are banning traffic and allowing in pedestrians only after ID checks.
Christophe Castaner, the interior minister, said access would be “very tight”, with bag searches and systematic requests for identity papers from anybody trying to enter… https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2018/11/30/brussels-protesters-attack-pms-office-yellow-vest-movement-spreads/
theirABC’s usual modus operandi; be a little critical, but don’t get quotes from the Opposition, whether political or otherwise:
1 Dec: ABC: How Carnegie set out to harness the power of waves and ended up sailing into a financial storm
By Rebecca Turner and Kathryn Diss
It appeared an irresistible political proposal — a wave farm that would harvest the seemingly endless energy generated by the ocean and power homes in a marginal electorate, the idyllic WA south coastal town of Albany.
But while renewable energy projects can make headline-grabbing election promises, like Opposition Leader Bill Shorten’s solar battery promises last week, it can be tricky to live up to the hype once you are in government.
That is one of the lessons the WA Labor Government led by Mark McGowan has been learning about the downside to selling a renewable energy dream.
The Albany wave energy project that the then-opposition leader promised before the 2017 WA election would turn Albany into a globally recognised renewable energy hub, create hundreds of jobs and power homes is now looking increasingly uncertain.
This week, the McGowan Government threw the company driving the project, Carnegie Clean Energy, the latest of several lifelines since it won a competitive tender in October last year.
Aside from Carnegie, its investors and the Government, many want the project to succeed, from Albany residents to the local council, from wave energy developers to renewable energy supporters.
But its problems could be a cautionary tale for any government tempted to flick the switch on that irresistible energy election promise…
Regional Development Minister Alannah MacTiernan: “For us to help this homegrown WA technology to have an opportunity to break through and be competitive, it does need Government investment.”
But renewable energy analyst Peter Strachan argued public money should not go towards such big research and development projects.
“I think the public needs a better bang for its buck,” he said.
“It’s all well to encourage new technologies, and we must do that, but when it comes to building $30 million, $60 million projects, I don’t know that that’s the best space.”…
When an election commitment involves a promise to power homes and put renewable energy into the grid, it would not be unreasonable for shareholders and taxpayers to assume the technology is already at a commercial scale.
Yet there is no requirement in Carnegie’s contract to produce any particular amount of energy…
This project was supported by more than $13 million from the Australian Renewable Energy Agency (ARENA), but the agency would not release any progress reports.
Ms MacTiernan also would not say how much energy was produced by CETO 5…
30 Nov: ABC: Carnegie Clean Energy shareholders use AGM to quiz wave power company on poor performance
By Kathryn Diss and Rebecca Turner
Long-suffering shareholders in embattled wave power company Carnegie Clean Energy have questioned the company’s ability to remain afloat…
One shareholder, Greg Benjamin, said he had seen the value of his shares plummet…
In his address, chairman Terry Stinson conceded the company had failed its shareholders.
“Commercially, it would be an understatement to say that Carnegie failed to deliver on expectations,” he told the gathering.
“On $10 million in revenue, the company lost $63 million, including a $34.9 million write-down of intangibles.
“The losses continue into this year, however not at the same magnitude.”…
Sale of solar subsidiary off
Investors also learned on Friday that Carnegie’s plan to sell a majority stake in its solar subsidiary, Energy Made Clean (EMC), at a 75 per cent loss to Sydney-based TAG Pacific Limited had fallen over…
As a result of its financial turmoil, Carnegie has been put on notice by the WA Government to show it can fund its $26 million share of a wave energy project in Albany by mid-February… https://www.abc.net.au/news/2018-11-30/carnegie-clean-energy-agm-shareholders-quiz-wave-power-company/10571192
30 Nov: WestAustralian: Peter Milne: Another setback for Carnegie as EMC sale falls through
The board of Carnegie Clean Energy faced shareholders today without a plan for its financial future after the sale of its troubled remote energy arm EMC fell through.
Carnegie chairman Terry Stinson said the company would work to minimise the losses from EMC while it looked for other buyers, something it was restricted from doing until now under the terms of its sale agreement with TAG Pacific.
EMC operated in the same hyper-competitive solar sector as RCR Tomlinson, which collapsed into administration this month.
The failed sale ends a disastrous year for the company whose shares are less than one-sixth the value they were in February…
Director Mike Fitzpatrick said he shared investors’ disappointment.
“Carnegie is the leading wave energy company in the world, but it’s a very difficult space,” he said…
Mr Stinson said Carnegie would find a way forward, even without the Federal research and development incentives.
“You can’t build your whole business around government grants,” he said.
He said he did not think the State Government would hold back further funding for the Albany project.
Managing director Jonathan Fievez said media interest in the company had been focussed on the politics of the State Government funding rather than on wave energy.
‘We’ve been very disappointed about how political the project has become.” he said. https://thewest.com.au/business/energy/another-setback-for-carnegie-as-emc-sale-falls-through-ng-b881036998z
As we are living in a bushfire area we have surrounded the house with well-mown green stuff…lawn is a fanciful name for what we have . However, for the first time this season I have water going on to some of it. We need to do something to protect us from the results of greenie interference in the handling of roadsides and forests around here. We were fortunate that the 2009 firestorm didn’t quite reach us but it was a close shave, helped by someone’s newly cleared paddock nearby.
We have also planted deciduous trees near the house and have orchards either end. Unfortunately, there are also pine trees nearer than would be ideal, the nearest planted by our predecessors and also (further away), some I planted 20 years ago…tubestock…the only stuff that survived the winds here and we wanted stock protection barriers…hmmm.
we dont water our lawn either, if we did it would be with tank water we have collected. Is there anything these Grinches dont want to control and restrict?
30 Nov: EurActiv: ‘Yellow vests’ show limits of consumer acceptance on climate change
By Dave Keating
As the European Commission unveiled its long-term vision for greenhouse gas reduction on Wednesday (28 November), a yellow cloud hung over the grand pronouncements.
The “yellow vests” protests in France the week before, opposing new environmental taxes on fuel, showed that the public is perhaps not ready to make the kind of short-term sacrifices envisioned by the Commission’s plan to reach net zero emissions by 2050.
The French taxes were enacted by the government as a way to discourage driving and increase the use of public transport, with funds going to climate change mitigation efforts.
The yellow vests are taking their protests to Brussels today, expected to snarl traffic cause general disruption in the city’s EU quarter.
As the Commission strategy was being presented, some of Europe’s local utilities were presenting their own long-term vision nearby. And the same yellow cloud hung over the discussion.
Vienna’s energy provider, Wien Energie, was presenting a study they conducted looking at the city’s energy future, concluding that a low-carbon future is both feasible and cost-effective in the long term.
Sceptical public
Michael Strebl, general manager of energy provider Wien Energie, was peppered with questions about the yellow vests and consumer acceptance after he presented the study.
“We are focusing very much right now on public acceptance,” he said. “We are a utility, we have to convince our customers to go on this journey with us. But you have to transform the utility, because otherwise the customers will not follow you.”
During a panel discussion, Henning Häder from electricity utility association Eurelectric said this is an issue that local utilities are struggling with across Europe – how do you move at the right speed that ensures consumer acceptance?
“I think you can see with what’s going on in France now how public acceptance is affected when you mess with energy costs for people,” he said. “Public acceptance is probably going to be a bigger factor going forward than costs. That’s something we really need to start thinking about right now.”
***But he pointed to a study unveiled by the association on Tuesday in Brussels showing that the power sector has to completely transform, and it needs to do it faster than originally predicted. “The study is completely unanimously supported by the entire European power sector,” he noted.
This should show consumers that utilities are committed to this as a long-term project that will save them money in the end, even if it might result in higher costs in the short term…
Christian Holzleitner from the European Commission’s climate and energy division sounded a more positive note.
“As soon as renewable technologies get cost competitive, people like them and they choose them,” he said. “For instance we know that e-mobility will be the most cost-competitive solution, and it comes with a lot of benefits for your well-being.”…
Peter Weinelt, vice-CEO of infrastructure provider Wiener Stadtwerke, said that the key is educating consumers about the benefits of switching to cleaner energy, and involving them in making the choice…
Not everyone was convinced. One audience member noted that his daughter had demonstrated for action on climate change in the EU Quarter last week, but also supported the yellow vest protesters. “At the same time the French guys were blocking the highways because Macron wanted to increase the energy price,” he said. “It’s all good what you’re saying, but to invest costs a lot of money, and there are conflicts of interest everywhere.”
Holzleitner said this is the purpose of the Commission’s 2050 strategy – to provide a long-term framework to show both businesses and consumers that there will be benefits in the long term. The Commission wants to show them that any short-term sacrifice will be worth it…
As Brussels braces for the arrival of the yellow vests today, EU policy-makers and businesses will still be thinking of ways to convince them to make some sacrifices for the energy transition, in exchange for a brighter long-term future. https://www.euractiv.com/section/climate-strategy-2050/news/yellow-vests-show-limits-of-consumer-acceptance-on-climate-change/
re the writers: Martin Goillandeau is a French reporter from Lille who just graduated from the Columbia Journalism School. Before coming to the US, he covered the 2017 French election as a student in Paris. Martin has also worked for several TV and radio outlets in his home country. Makana Eyre is an American reporter based in Paris, France. He is a graduate of the Columbia Journalism School, where he was a fellow at the Stabile Center for Investigative Journalism. Makana works as a freelance correspondent for the Haitian Times, covering the Haitian diaspora in Europe.
30 Nov: Columbia Journalism Review: Journalists harassed and assaulted at Yellow Vest protests across France
By Martin Goillandeau and Makana Eyre
As one hundred thousand people mobilized across France last Saturday, Jean-Luc Thomas, a veteran reporter for French TV news channel CNEWS, broadcast live from the heart of the Southern city of Toulouse…That day, as he worked, Thomas experienced something that never happened to him before over his two-decade long career in journalism.
Around 3:30pm, protesters steps away from the Capitol Square, the sprawling City Hall of the so-called pink city, encircled Thomas and several other journalists. At first, they demanded that the reporters “get the f*** out of here.” Then the taunts grew more serious. Dozens of Yellow Vests started yelling, “We want your skin,” and “You’re less than sh**,” then calling the journalists “collaborators,” a reference to the support the Vichy government gave to the Nazis during World War II. The protesters began to spit and kick, and inched closer. Some tried to trip Thomas and his colleagues, and others threw bottles at them. Security guards, tasked with protecting the journalists, ultimately evacuated them. Thomas ran down a side street. Many of the protesters chased after him.
Despite 24 years as a journalist, Thomas says, “I never felt what I felt that day—the feeling of deep fear.” In 2012, the sturdy, spirited shoe-leather reporter had been taken hostage by supporters of France’s far right party, the National Front. Even that incident, he says, did not scare him the way last week did.
This disturbing episode mirrors dozens of incidents of violence and harassment against journalists covering the Yellow Vests across metropolitan France, and on the overseas island territory, Réunion. From interfering with live broadcasts, spitting on reporters, and calling them offensive names to at least one case of serious violence, these incidents have brought to light what Reporters Without Borders called, in a statement, “a worrisome increase in mistrust of the media.” The Yellow Vests have announced that they are planning another round of national protests for this coming Saturday.
Today, Thomas is in shock. He’s currently taking a break from work, away from Toulouse. The memory of the event haunts him. “I felt totally dehumanized and humiliated,” he says, and even feared for his life. Jean-Wilfrid Forquès, a reporter for BFMTV, France’s most-watched news channel, who was with Thomas in Toulouse that day, told Le Monde that the bodyguards who evacuated him “saved my life.” When reached by CJR for comment, Forquès declined to speak, saying that he fears for his safety and is currently under police protection…
According to Isabelle Veyrat-Masson, a research director and media historian at the French National Center for Scientific Research, the Yellow Vests’ tense relationship with the media can be explained, in part, by the fact that this movement found its roots on social media. “The debate around the referendum of the European Constitution in 2005 already showed a real split between a pro-Europe media world on one side and a stigmatized population that used the internet to debate and organize their protests,” she says.
The primary target of this mistrust, according to Veyrat-Masson, is the TV channel BFM. The station’s name has become synonymous with inaccurate and government-affiliated reporting for many of the Yellow Vests, who often use the hashtag #BFMacron on social media…
On November 17, during the first round of protests, a video from a regional news show of the public network France 3 went viral. It showed an anchor cutting a reporter’s broadcast just as she was about to mention instances of police violence towards the Yellow Vests in the Aquitaine region. The channel explained in several tweets that they had to cut the reporter because their programming was late and the national edition was about to start, but many protesters condemned the episode as proof of media censorship.
So the next push of the Labor and Green parties after allowing anyone into the country is to give the vote to mature 5 year olds.
Union teachers will hand the secret ballot papers in class and show the children how to fill them in. Only socialists know the wisdom of properly supervised children and teenagers. The children will save the planet from the evil capitalists and conservatives and non Unionists. Control of the country will be by communists and their capitalist friends. Pink batts, carbon taxes, RET, windmills, solar panels, free health care and the same wage for everyone, even if they don’t work. There will be no educated rich people. They are the problem.
We’re On The Eve of Destruction.
Kurri Kurri Aluminium Smelter,: gone , a victim of ridiculous electricity increases.
Tomago Aluminium, On the edge. Probably wont last.
Electric Arc steelmaking, been gone for decades.
Farming: Farmers are undecided which will cause their final collapse: no dams , water sequestration by green law, or high prohibitive electricity to pay to pump water.
Destruction of morale, destruction of incentive to risk, destruction of price competitiveness with other countries.
Destruction of schools, universities, car manufacturing.
Destruction of ship building.
KK
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Keith, the original ETS scheme which but for Barnaby Joyce would have been introduced by the Howard government with ALP support studiously refused to allow credits for the sequestration side of agriculture’s carbon cycle. They intended to tax agriculture’s recycled carbon on the same basis as fossil carbon.
This double or more taxation would have quickly bankrupted Australia’s grazing industries, and soon after all farming industry.
This would have enabled the government to transfer the 60% of Australia’s land area which is used for grazing into new ownership without compensating the existing owners.
Outraged opposition saw Agriculture put in the too hard basket, but the gross inequity of that plan was never acknowledged. Had the ALP won the 2013 election they would have been able to tack that provision onto their carbon tax.
As we see Oxford University again calling for curbs on farming activities, remember that it is not the “cows” that are worrying the Marxist scholars. It is the small business capitalists who own the cows that they are gunning for.
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Governments play on the fact that very few voters are close enough to see the detail when these get rich quick schemes are created.
Thanks Ted for bringing to light another one. It’s unfortunate that these schemes are rarely understood by the population at large, and so they get away with it.
The thing that voters must come to terms with is that when governments are voted in they have access to the Treasury with most of their actions away from direct public scrutiny.
And they really enjoy it!
KK
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KK, add this to the list – using renewables “to power 80% of the market by 2030”.
Hmmm…..since we have very little renewables, 80% of very little is…..even less…..
Whihc means the market is small, coz we dont have much drawing power…..good bye economy,….
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2018-11-30/renewables-now-heading-for-80-per-cent-of-electricity-market/10567838
“Renewables heading for 80 per cent of electricity market by 2030, putting pressure on future funding: report”
“Renewable generation installation has accelerated to such an extent it is on track to provide almost 80 per cent of the electricity market by 2030, according to research from consultancy Green Energy Markets.
Key points:
* Rooftop solar installations are up 76pc on this time last year
* By end of the year rooftop solar capacity will exceed that of the closed Hazelwood power station
* Renewable financing faces big challenges from the likely collapse of power prices
GEM director Tristan Edis said the renewable energy industry has built itself up to such a significant scale that even 50 per cent by 2030, the renewables target being pursued by the Federal Labor Party, would involve a significant contraction in activity and employment in the industry.
“I think most of us had thought a while back that 50 per cent by 2030 would be a pretty massive task for the industry to scale-up to meet,” Mr Edis said.
“But given the spectacular level of construction and rooftop solar installation activity since 2017, the industry is now facing a rather massive contraction in activity and employment even if Labor is elected nationally.”
“In October, renewables were responsible for 22.5 per cent of electricity generation.
Sticking to the Coalition government’s current policy of reducing carbon dioxide emissions to 26 per cent below 2005 levels would slam the brakes on the sector.
On GEM’s figures, the amount of new renewable energy capacity required each year to achieve a 50 per cent target is around 1,850 megawatts.
Between January 2017 and October 2018 the rate of large-scale construction commitments and small-scale rooftop solar installations was 5,150 megawatts per year.
“The Coalition’s 2030 emissions target, as embodied within the proposed National Energy Guarantee, would involve a collapse to 839 megawatts per year,” Mr Edis said.”
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I hadn’t realised that Hazelwood averaged 20% efficiency only on sunny days.
/sarc if needed
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Can’t wait to see what happens to rooftop solar when Andrews wants to switch on the desal plant.
50
? it will do whatever it was going to do, it doesnt know about demand
00
“Electric Arc steelmaking, been gone for decades.”
No. Rooty Hill Sydney, Laverton Melbourne, Waratah, Newcastle are working Electric Arc Furnaces.
Port Kembla has two blast furnaces and Whyalla has one.
Whyalla survives as part of Liberty Steel but nearly closed. Bought by the Gupta family.
All are complaining about the soaring cost of electricity which will make them economically non viable, which is the whole intent of the Greens. About 24,000 people will lose their jobs and the flow on jobs in the communities and wages of $1.5Billion. All that means is that we have to import steel, like everything else. The money to do this comes from coal and gas, so it is quite idi*tic. World CO2 goes up, Australia goes down. That’s the EU/UN for you, an unholy combination of communists and capitalists attempting to control the world by making economies fail.
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More than half Bluescope’s income is from the booming steel market in the US after Donald Trump’s steel duties, mainly on Canada and Mexico. China is only 3%. A technology invented in Whyalla and patented is making steel far cheaper, going straight from raw steel to sheet metal. This is shared between Nucor and Bluescope largely. Nucor is now the US’s biggest steel manufacturer and 75% of US steel is recycled. However it needs lots of electricity and as we know, the Australian government and the Greens are desperate to control electricity.
Thus the Renewable Energy(Electricity) Act of 2000 (known as the RET) which was the first and greatest attempt to seize Federal control of electricity and ripoff ordinary Australians to force the closure of coal, gas, oil and even diesel electricity. As far as I can calculate, the RET rips off $12Billion every year from the electricity bills of ordinary Australians and just gives (yes, gives) the money to windmill and solar companies.
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TdeF:
They can’t close diesel generators as these are necessary to make renewables viable. e.g. Tasmania, South Australia, Victoria, England (the STOR scheme).
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Yes, again idi*tic. As if diesels are Green and Coal is bad. In fact diesel air pollution is a real problem and coal air pollution is non existent. As for CO2, there is a trivial 20% reduction in CO2 per kwhr at enormous cost. Considering that China outputs more CO2 than the US and all of Europe combined, what does it matter? People breathing out in India produce more CO2 than Australia. Self harm, penance, the Middle Ages, superstition, coal is the devil.
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Besides, we have no diesel. 7 days backup. Diesel submarine. Submarine factory running on diesel generators. SA government running on diesel. Tasmania running on diesel when the water runs out, $11Million a month. Then Canberra is running on wind and collecting $30Million a year in RET certificates earned on windmills paid for with our cash. All without taxation. Just theft compounding theft.
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TdeF on a another site in reply, I stated I normally agreed with you but you are badly wrong about Diesel. Broken Hill (and its mines and surrounds) has been supplied for decades by electricity from the central power station using large diesel engines which actually use fuel oil. These engines do not produce significant NOX because they do not run at high temperature. It is also wrong to say smaller diesel engines in cars have more emission than petrol or LPG Otto cycle based engines. You have been drinking of the doped green juice containing lies regularly put out by Greens, Socialists and their alarmist supporters. Diesel for trucks, rail, utes, and SUVs will be around in Australia for at least the next 50 years until the time nuclear reactors can be made small enough and cheap enough. Small nuclear reactors have been put in space vehicles traveling to outer planets and even out of the solar system (A japanese space vehicle sent back signals after traveling 35 years to the edge of the solar system. Small nuclear reactors in submarines are already cheaper than diesel and battery power for electric drives. China and South Korea are doing research to make small modular nuclear reactors. South Korea have sold 4 small units to the UAE for two desalination plants.
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Then explain the problem with Audi/Volkswagen and their faking of diesel results under load. This did not come from the Greens. They loved diesel. It is not just the higher temperature but the much higher compression characteristic of diesels. No spark needed.
“diesel engines typically run higher compression ratios, around 16-18:1, vs. gasoline engines, typically running 9-11:1. Diesel engines are also compression ignition, relying on the high temperature generated by compression to ignite the fuel, whereas the fuel in a gasoline engine is ignited by a spark.”
“While diesel engine exhaust has historically contained more NOx, advances in after treatment and regulations in recent years have greatly reduced the amount of NOx (and particulate matter) that come out of the tailpipe of the newer diesel engines.”
Basically the biggest recent invention was the Urea trap. “Urea SCR systems (2010) – a selective catalytic reduction system relying on urea/ammonia to convert NOx into N2”
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Got stuck behind a diesel SUV today..
And it was particularly Noxious !!
Sooty, smelly black fumes.
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TdeF, quibbles:
Compression ratio isn’t the issue, it’s at high combustion temperature and pressure that the NOx is made. Petrol engines are generally considered “constant volume” combustion, with all fuel and air burning at TDC, pressure going up massively. Diesel engines are viewed as “constant volume” combustion with some fuel burning at TDC, but more being injected as the piston heads down the power stroke, keeping the pressure up. Both reach comparable peak pressures and temperatures. The diesels hold the peaks for a longer period during the cycle which, I guess, is why diesels might have a NOx problem.
The VW scandal wasn’t that they faked results, the results were real. It’s that they detected when they were under test and changed to less fuel efficient settings to pass the test. Deceptive, to be sure. In the alternative universe where VW didn’t do it, I wonder what percentage of their customers might have paid for this universe’s firmware which gave them better economy for a small boost in NOx emissions…
Like you, I don’t think the push against diesels is green driven, but then I don’t think the push for diesels was green driven either. It’s just another modern backflip. Sunlight, good or bad? Margerine back to butter. High carbs to high fat diet. “Desal is bottled electricity” to “Hope you like your new desal plant”. Etc.
50
They faked it. The software detected when a simulation test was underway and backed off to minimize emissions. Volkswagen admitted this. That is cheating.
The software noted the lack of turning of the steering wheel for example and the overall pattern of the test and adjusted the response to the throttle specifically to minimize emissions at the cost of performance. The reverse happens in real life.
Without this, the NO2 and particulate matter went well past the statutory limits when climbing or under acceleration, so the software faked the result to pass the test. Yes, the results were real, but they were fake. The diesels were not as clean as tested. It’s not what happens in real life with those specific diesel engines. People were fired. Those cars are now banned and fined from London to Paris. It is costing millions of people a lot of money. It is not a Green fraud. Soot and acid in the air are a real health problem in crowded European cities of 11 million people.
I think you get the same effect in VW/Audi cars if you do not do much for a long time and then want to accelerate quickly. They do nothing for a long time.
As for the Black smoke, that is the other problem with diesel, a problem which does not exist at all with lighter fractions. Plus higher levels of sulphur on the longer hydrocarbon chains.
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I think it important to point out that Nitrous oxides are as dangerous as Sulphurous compounds like H2S but you cannot smell them. That does not mean they do not exist. The sulphur is rotten egg gas and turns into sulphuric acid in your lungs. It is deadly, but the nitric acid eats your lungs just as quickly and you cannot smell it.
However I remember the cities of Europe in winter, especially North of London. In the fog the dirt and the stench of diesel everywhere. Petrol cities were smell free, grime free. If Volkswagen had not faked the test and bothered to fix the problem as now, there would be millions fewer polluting cars on the road.
Man made CO2 levels, man made Global Warming, man made Climate Change and man made Storms are a Green political fantasy designed to destroy western democracies and give power to the United Nations who invented them. However dirty, smelly, dangerous diesel fumes are not a Green fantasy.
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The fantasy was that diesel engines were clean, Green. Laughably while they use fewer litres per km, they produce more CO2 per litre than petrol. That is because as a higher, denser fraction, diesel has 10% more carbon, 10% more power per litre.
Like LP gas, when diesel was used exclusively for tractors and trucks and machinery and generators, diesel was not heavily taxed. Now it is increasingly more expensive, based on the power content and its popularity. That is a simple fact of greedy governments wanting $/km not $/litre. Government income must always go up, not down. Washington, London, Paris and Canberra will see to that.
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Tdef and others ,Coal is for generating electricity, Diesel is for transport and remote area power generation but also handy for emergency power generation .
Gas is for cooking .
Tdef the way I read your first comment is basically just what I’ve put above but of course then there’s Nuclear and renewable but the latter is only good for small scale off grid applications imo.
40
TdeF I am not a mechanical engineer but I know and have experience in thermodynamics, heat & mass transfer and combustion. I also know a lot of chemistry including organic chemistry.
You are wrong about the comparison of NOx to SOx gases. NOx gases consist of N2O,NO and NO2. N2O is often called laughing gas. It is completely safe for humans. It has been used in whipped cream & soft icecreams. It has been used by dentists as an an anaesthetic. NO is the main gas formed in high temperature combustion. NO by itself has some biological benefits and doss not harm at low levels. It is the main nitrogen oxide gas produced in high temperature combustion. However, NO can be oxidise by oxygen and ozone to NO2 which is more dangerous. NO2 is decomposed at high temperature to NO and O2. In wiki it states the main problem with NO/NO2 in US is (natural) gas usage in stoves and ovens in homes where it can become concentrated.
H2S is an unpleasant smelling gas which is toxic at small concentration. It can be noticed when fuels high in S (organically combined) burns in reducing condition ie in deficit oxygen conditions. With excess oxygen SO2 is formed. Fuels used in planes, cars, and trucks have practically no Sulphur. Australia coals have low sulphur in comparison to US and European coals. With high stacks to disperse exhaust gases there is no need for power statios in Australia to reduce the SOx emission (done in towers with injection of limestone to give artificial gypsum)
Just a small poit about fuel. The temperature for ignition declines as follows hydrogen, Methane (natural gas), LPG, Petrol, lighting kerosene, power kerosene (also jet fuel), diesel (various grades), fuel oils (various grades)
I had a tractor which was started on petrol then switched to power kerosene. I once forgot to switch to kero. The engine seized and I had to wait about 20 minutes for the engine to cool so it would start and I could switch to Kero after which the tractor worked well. On Kero the tractor had more power for ploughing and it was more economical. There was no emission of of black smoke when the engine was warm and swithed to kero. It should be obvious that power kerosene burns at a lower temperature than petrol. I had a dual fuel car (LPG and petrol). To run with LPG much higher temperature value stems are required (I believe these have titanium in the steel). Let me say again diesel burns at lower temperature than petrol or LPG. So less NO is produced for the same power output and with the diesel cycle more efficiently.
10
Graeme No.3
I am always amazed at what can be learned by following this blog.
“Recover the COMPLETE cost of your new generator through participation in our STOR scheme.”
GENsmart STOR Scheme
20
Philip Mulholland:
Thanks, but my generator isn’t big enough (not 100kVA) and is in another place with dodgy electricity supply.
20
Thanks TdeF, I know that you mentioned electric arc a few days ago and I wrote that without checking. It looks, from the outside, as though Comm Steel had closed down but it’s great to hear that there’s still some activity in this area of heavy industry.
KK
50
Yes, it’s under extreme threat. The Green policies are forcing the closure of all cheap and reliable electric power generation and so all recycling in Australia. Steel, plastics, everything. Smelters cannot use intermittent power either. Greens care nothing for the environment. They are all about shutting down democratic countries with their pseudo science. Why they also hate Jews and Israel is beyond imagining, but they are the new Hitler youth. The future belongs to them.
250
KK
My old employer was a major supplier to the former Comsteel for 30 years in all of its permutations of name and I had inside info on its goings-on via a senior Comsteel accountant.
A good deal of Comsteel’s woes were due to its being bought out at least 4 times during my 15 years dealing with it. Every time it was bought the debt burden increased on its new owners. The high $AU in about 2010-11 killed off much of its export market for train wheels/axles which it had previously supplied to many parts of the world. Work dried up. The only thing keeping the Waratah plant alive at that stage was the grinding media (steel balls from golf ball size to bowling ball size used in ore ball-mills, mainly copper and gold mines). All of its steel was recycled scrap arc-melted.
Later that failed too and Mayfield was reduced to a skeleton staff doing basic maintenance. The Onesteel/Arrium/Molycop group in Newcastle was then relying on its cable-making plant at Waratah to stay afloat. That situation persisted for several years but over the last 2 years they have been increasing their workforce again. By late 2017 the train wheels were back in production, but on nothing like the old scale: a couple of semi loads per day.
I think the old BHP Rod and Bar Mill which I know you are familiar with is still operating with electric arc furnaces too (although it could be gas) to re-heat ingots from Rooty Hill and draw them into coil. I think they were producing ingots of their own then too because the truck drivers used to complain that they were too hot when loaded and were burning the trays of their semis.
60
Interesting.
I spoke to some people a year ago about the current status of the plant I worked in. It was next to BHP and took rods to draw to wire.
Their comments were much the same picture that you’ve given: lots of uncertainty.
I suspect that most voters have little idea of the poor state of our manufacturing and heavy industry outside of mining.
Our governments have done very little over the past 25 years.
KK
80
What happens when those little green elfs have to pay $1+ per kWh!
60
KK, the universities are already destroyed, why else would they persecute real scientists that disagree with their green mantra. The schools are almost as bad – real science is ignored or suppressed in favor of groupthink and ‘feelings’.
344
KK
To make sure of the demise of grazing industries just mandate no management of thickening woody vegetation
111
Sometimes people are backed into a corner.
Remember that elderly farmers a few years ago who was pestered by one of the official green enforcers.
Sadly the enforcer had no comprehension of the morally ugly thing he was doing, and paid the price.
No winners there.
111
Add Portland aluminium smelter, surviving for 4 more years from 2017 on basis of Vic government handout of $210 million with $30 million from Turnbull..
80
Good news that it’s there, sorry to hear about the subsidies though.
30
Well send all the Al to Bluff (NZ) which runs on one of the largest hydro systems around.
20
We are reaching the tipping point politically in Australia.
Unless the liberal coalition develops a point of difference by abandoning the RET and withdrawing from the parasites climate agreement, the average Australian is in for drop in standard of living.
Businesses will go bankrupt or off shore, unemployment will rise.
4 years of labor will send the country bankrupt.
The greens policies do not create any wealth.
Their goal is to destroy western civilization and send us back to the dark ages
503
I agree with your comments Mal but fortunately the ALP will be in power for 3 years (2019 – 2022) not 4 years before the 2022 Federal Election- still plenty of time to send our great nation down the gurglar.
360
Seems as though the country is already circling the drain.
50
“Their goal is to destroy western civilization and send us back to the dark ages”
Bizarre thing is that the Unions will let them.!!
Someone down there in the Union sludge, is seriously LACKING in thought processes !!
308
Most of them have never experienced genuine hardship and the few that had believe it won’t happen again because their elite workforce system has protected them from the real economy and cost of living.
After all you can always print more jobs comrade.
210
The worst recession here for 60 years was in and around 1990 and Australia has not experienced a recession since then. Even with the northern hemisphere financial crisis around 2008/09 Australia avoided a recession. But that was because our economy and government financial positions were very strong following 12 years of Howard Coalition Government and them repaying the Labor debt with interest by 2006, producing budget surpluses in all but one financial year including for 2007/08 (they lost government in November 2007) and even establishing investment funds, education and Future Fund of $60 billion (now double) and, a healthy economic position.
But today is a very different story, from zero debt in November 2007 (repaid June 2006) to almost $700 billion federal government today (after providing funding for Labor’s Gonski public school grants and NDIS the debt that can be attributed to Labor is at least $400 billion), state and local government debts additional plus debt hidden off government budgets in government owned private companies, eg; NBNCo. There has not been one budget in surplus since 2007/08. The economy is struggling below previous long term average GDP of 3.5 per cent, now under 2.5 per cent. Inflation is low but that indicates poor economic conditions. Many more indicators that Australia is vulnerable, national prosperity is declining along with many business closures and loss of jobs.
This situation was deliberately created by crooked politicians who, like the Obama regime in the US, are determined to impose a new world order, a world government, socialism and globalism.
291
Unfortunately, I remember it only too well. Interest rates on housing at 18.5%.
70
24% on business loans, even fully secured.
50
Print more?
You mean like desalination plants, school shelters and pink hats??
Government Strategy.
Make work schemes on borrowed money.
The troops get the largess, feel happy and vote for their benefactors.
Part of the borrowed money is recycled as tax payments to the benefactors who get to spend it twice over.
Everybody happy except our grandchildren who will have to deal with the debt.
KK
130
Embrace The Third Way.
40
During WW2, Communists in the warfies refused to load ships to supply troops.
If that element still exists in the union movement ( or worse ) if they will bring down a country when its fighting for its life during war time, why wouldnt it let it die during peacetime?
Maybe it time to call the unions out, and ask them pointedly what they are doing to protect economic life and limb….
222
Right on.
101
As I see it the Liberal party has lost the next election. Split between 2 factions that think that the other has insane policies, they are spending their time fighting each other and ignoring the voters. Labor is almost certain to win the next election and probably the one after that unless they are as incompetent as they claim to be.
Far from the Liberals regrouping and determined to win in 2022 I foresee them indulging in even more internal warfare. The only solution I see is for the Party to split into the conservatives and the Green lites. Once the latter have been isolated and the usual chaos of a Labor government becomes obvious then they can mount a serious challenge.
300
I will not vote for the musical chairs parties, the cooperative of politicians branded Labor Green Liberal National all on the same path and not mostly in our best interests.
I will place them from the bottom up as I listed them above, in that order, and above my primary vote will go to a minor party candidate or carefully researched independent, taking care the “independent” is not a party plant, masquerading as an independent.
Same for the Senate.
The best voters can hope for is another hung parliament with the next federal government consisting of alliances to form a minority government, as in 2010 but hopefully many more outside of the main parties MP alliance members.
80
Something we all need to understand.
Voting is done at home researching the best person for the job.
The only difference between libls and laba is that laba does most of its ripoffs in the open while libls tend to hide theirs.
KK
70
I will not accept my vote flowing to a person that I will not accept in government.I will not number preferences beyond what I will accept.It is MY vote .Note that if the “informal” vote so classified when WE decide who is acceptable is large enough then the victor cannot claim to have the support of the electorate. Reclaim YOUR vote.Vote how YOU want, to express your true opinion of the options.
100
There is no guarantee that any politician will stay with the party they claim to be representing at the polls.
Recent history shows how well they lie to the public. Once they are in the trough they bring out their own personal views of the world rather than represent the voters.
Sadly, we cannot trust any of them.
130
Must be hard when the MP realises the party they thought they were with has been corrupted by people who’s ideology is opposite their own
Corey realised this quite early, the party had left him, was no longer the party he signed up with.
Others currently refuse to admit it, or have failed in doing anything about it.
196
Julia Banks deserves considerable sympathy on that basis.
515
Yep, the Liberal party wasn’t as far left, PC and SJW prissy as she thought she could make it.
226
Banks on a good day !!
85
How about some sympathy for the people that gave up all their spare time working to help get her elected as a LIBERAL?
How about some sympathy for the people that voted for her policies and the party that backed her the LIBERAL PARTY?
These people were effectively spat upon because she didn’t take the job seriously and wanted to grandstand about personal issues that the people who worked and voted for her couldn’t care less about (does voting out the carbon tax ring a bell?)
Add on top the lack of the resilience that it takes to survive in politics and you have someone who should never had put their hand up.
Hell even our worst performing politicians (spoilt for choice) have toughed it out and survived all manner of obstacles so credit where credit is due.
153
“How about some sympathy for the people that gave up all their spare time working to help get her elected as a LIBERAL?”
None of them will be doing it again.
Same will be a case form many of the LINOS.
115
“and you have someone who should never had put their hand up.”………
Oh but Julia did……BUT was it “more” to appease Turnbull ..this time round ?????
I’d say there was a plan….with a promise …you scratch my back…and I’ll finance you at a later date, as a Independent…..!!!
Politics today in Australia = back to the Italian mafia days (without the guns)!!
50
Forget the flying rat, brainwashed kids go on strike over inaction on eliminating filthy coal.
‘Morrison was mentioned by every speaker and booed every time. How much he must regret that throwaway line in question time, that “kids should go to school” and be “less activist”, and the electoral harm it threatens to cause in a few more years.’
Guardian
70
Yup, looks like ScoMo and his Muppets doing ever so well with the voters of tomorrow. 🙂
38
The kids and women will go ballistic when Scott announces that he is seeking tenders for three new coal fired power stations.
70
Most with about the same near-zero self-thought as you are capable of.
Brain-washed little toadies for 350.org.
83
Even a severe change in the weather won’t shake their resolve, the youngsters are on a quest to save the world and will simply ignore scientific reality.
http://notrickszone.com/2018/11/30/snow-forecast-to-reach-florida-mexico-this-decades-november-snow-cover-highest-on-record/
Satire is the key to reeducating the children, get them laughing and the revolution should come easy.
50
Bastardi compared this year to the 2002/2003 and 2009/2010 winters, El Nino is clearly a major driver. Further reading suggests a predominance of back to back El Nino as the planet cools.
40
el gordo, do you agree if it is a modoki el nino it is a strange one. “Classic” Modoki has a very warm equatorial (dateline) and cooler waters in the west and east. My latest reading doesnt show that. Indicates that we haven’t a complete knowledge of Pacific/Indian ocean systems. That record heatwave over QLD bringing”unprecedented” bushfires is something else!
30
Its not a Modoki, just a modest El Nino, but there is a good chance that a strong El Nino will build from July next year, followed by a sharp La Nina in 2020.
The question I need an answer for: Does more heat escape earth during El Nino?
30
According to Javier (comments Energy Matters 2015) more heat escapes earth during El Nino.
‘El Niño does not generate heat and therefore cannot warm the world. It just redistributes the heat in a temporally and spatially localized way. During and after an El Niño, the Earth is radiating more heat to space, as the satellite measurements clearly indicate, while it is not taking in more energy from the Sun.
‘The energy lost to space through an El Niño, will create a heat deficit for decades or centuries, but meanwhile it appears as warming to us because the heat has to go through the atmosphere and creates all sort of side effects.’
20
Laughing?? They are eg, at the deluded and absurdly self harming “conservatives” of the RW. 🙂
16
Not the conservative that are self-harming.
Look at the money the far-left are throwing at Tony Abbott’s seat to try to unseat him. So scared of him, they are.
Its the far-left infiltration of the Liberals that will disappear into oblivion once the dust settles.
Labor and Green have all the left-wing “taker” votes sown up, and ex-Liberal voters are not going to vote for this farce that is now the ex-liberal party.
The deluded left-oriented LINO-Party doesn’t have a chance.
The far-left will continue to branch stack in an effort to remove the real Liberals, but eventually, the libs will realise that being centre conservative is the only way that can actually gain votes and win back the large majority they had before Tony Abbott was knifed.
82
El gordo
The Rutgers snow cover graph at the link is interesting.
Running from 1966 it is an inverse of the temperature variations I remember.
e.g. Decreasing snow from 1972 corresponds with my memories of very warm years and the more recent high snow coverage matches the recent bland summers.
So much for the histrionic, death by global warming media blast we are constantly hit with.
KK
61
‘Laughing??’
If they aren’t sophisticated enough to understand irony … then its back to the drawing board. Tony is tougher than Scott and the green left despise him even more than the current lame duck.
‘Tony Abbott is open to pushing for a position on the Coalition’s frontbench and does not rule out returning as party leader.’ Oz
21
The doGs above are simply not that good to the left eg. 🙂 Tones back as PM??? Would make teh upcoming rout of the right an event of even more epic proportions than it looks like being now.
03
“Tones back as PM???”‘
Never seen someone PANIC as much as you at a thought as you are, phlip. !
31
You are ever so slightly misreading this AG55. 🙂
With hand on the heart genuine honesty i would LOVE IT if the Libs spilled the leadership ASAP and re-installed Abbott as PM.
And if Skynooze after Dark was compulsory viewing on all channels.
FFS, those two would seal the result of the next election.
Oh, and if you can get a spot in strategic planning for the Coalition…..that would be heaven for me.
XXXXX 🙂
01
That cartoon has a nice aggro edge to it. Just what’s needed against the hucksters and plunderers of Big Green. The smell of napalm in the morning.
192
G’day m,
There’s also quite a good cartoon at the top of today’s SMH Letters:
http://www.smh.com.au/comment/smh-letters/part-time-parliament-and-party-politics-on-the-nose-20181129-p50j5r.html?btis
(Sorry, I’m not able to copy it into here.)
But it needs an additional word to improve its accuracy. Please find the appropriate spot to add the word “false”, or maybe “fake”.
Cheers
Dave B
80
great cartoon, but Jo is competing with another West Australian, Dr. Nick Watts, who is featured in almost the entire FakeNewsMSM today:
28 Nov: CarbonBrief: The Lancet: Extreme heat threatens ‘systemic failure’ of hospitals
by Daisy Dunne
The recent impact of climate change on heat-related diseases should be seen as a harbinger of future dangers posed to human health, a landmark report finds. These risks include the threat of a “systemic failure” of the world’s hospitals.
The findings come from the second Lancet Countdown (LINK) report: an annual review of the scientific evidence of climate change’s effect on human health produced by 27 academic organisations from across the world.
Climate change is already having a notable impact on many other aspects of human health, the report finds, including by negatively affecting nutrition, mental wellbeing and labourers’ capacity to work outdoors.
However, there is “cause for hope”, the authors add, pointing to a ramping up of interest in low-carbon “healthy” diets and modes of transport in recent years, as well as the possible health benefits of a phase out of coal-fired power…
The rise in the number of vulnerable people exposed to heatwaves not only raises the risk of premature mortality via heat stress, but also the occurrence of chronic diseases, such as heart failure, says ***Dr Nick Watts, executive director of the Lancet Countdown. He told a press briefing…READ ON
https://www.carbonbrief.org/the-lancet-extreme-heat-threatens-systemic-failure-of-hospitals
***Medact: Nick Watts
Nick is a medical doctor having qualified from the University of Western Australia, and trained in population health (UWA) and public policy (University College London). He regularly consults with the World Health Organization’s Dept. of Public Health, Environmental and Social Determinants of Health, where he provides technical expertise on a range of policy issues, and supports the WHO’s engagement with the UN Framework Convention on Climate Change.
Nick also works as the Director of the UK Health Alliance on Climate Change, which brings together the UK’s major health institutions, including the BMA, The Lancet, the Faculty of Public Health, and the Royal Colleges of Physicians, Nursing, General Practitioners. The Alliance aims to support the health profession and engage government in accelerating a transition towards a healthier climate.
(RIGHT COLUMN) On Twitter:
TWEET: Medact: 20h ago: Shocked that a Polish coal company is 1st sponsor of #COP24 climate talks. Coal has serious public health impacts in Poland. Join us on Sat to show solidarity to Polish activists + demand #climatejustice from UK Gov @HealthyPlanetUK http://bit.ly/2r76vVK https://www.facebook.com/events/2059253 (LINK DESMOG UK)
TWEET: 21h ago: We’re sad to hear of the passing of the dedicated NHS & social justice activist @Harryslaststand. He was incredibly inspiring & often provided much-needed clarity #ourNHS #IStandWithHarry https://www.theguardian.com/society/video/ (LINK GUARDIAN ARTICLE)
https://www.medact.org/people/nick-watts/
80
it used to be:
Lancet Countdown to 2030 – Global Health and Climate Action
July 2016: WWF European Union: Coal-burning EU countries make their neighbours sick
Medical professionals support the Dark Cloud report
“Even one operational coal power plant is one too many, as this report shows. By ending coal power across Europe we can bring massive benefits for people’s health and for the climate in one fell swoop. EU countries and leaders can and should unite around this cause for the common good.” – Dr Nick Watts, Executive Director of the ***Lancet Countdown to 2030: Global Health and Climate Action…
http://www.wwf.eu/?272333/Dark-Cloud
but the “2030” and “global” have now been dropped (though the word “global” features throughout the Carbon Brief article)
Climate change is ‘threat of the century’
The Australian-11 hours ago
Climate change needs public health campaign similar to tobacco as …
The Independent-12 hours ago
Heatwave Britain could see rise in violence, suicide and self harm …
Telegraph.co.uk-12 hours ago
Climate change already a health emergency, say experts
In-Depth-The Guardian-12 hours ago
seems The Australian is running with the following Thomson Reuters piece – read it all here:
29 Nov: Thomson Reuters: Laurie Goering: Climate change is ‘threat of the century’
https://www.news.com.au/world/breaking-news/climate-change-is-threat-of-the-century/news-story/49468ee1630fd03169b4cb4c084e5add
30
I wonder how people will go in the UK, with no coal power, the Russians turn off the gas tap, and years of freezing temps……goodbye Britain….
120
You could actually see how you could have a massive number of deaths ( 100,000s ) if the loco greenists controlled everything….
101
O’Steve. That is the PLAN from City of London, Club Rome, Soro’s, etc. (NWO global socialist elite scumbags). (Un) – official strategy to reduce world population from current levels to 500 million. It is all written (Agenda 21/2030) and out for all to see. Amazingly though, how little on this planet know whats cooking!
102
“A rapidly changing climate has dire implications for every aspect of human life, exposing vulnerable populations to extremes of weather, altering patterns of infectious disease and compromising food security, safe drinking water and clean air,” it warned.
Global cooling is imminent and all over the western world people will be laughing out loud, having realised they had been duped. The Paris Agreement is in tatters and renewables become a thing of the past.
This change in the weather is real, a meandering jet stream and the collapse of the subtropical ridge in the southern hemisphere, producing blocking high pressure, are all signs of cooling.
On the ground it should become obvious to those in mid latitude that a few days of scorching heat followed by a cold air outbreak from Antarctica, lasting a few days, has nothing to do with CAGW
Baring an outbreak of hostilities between nation states, food security is assured.
61
Sounds interesting.
40
Pat
Any actual carbon content figures for
“low carbon healthy diet” and
“high carbon non-healthy diet”?
Including byproducts
50
Arctic warming causing the freezing “Beast from the East” must be proof there’s no GLOBAL warming, I guess:
29 Nov: UK Independent: UK support for oil and gas drilling in Arctic incompatible with climate change goals, warn MPs
by Josh Gabbatiss
The government must call off its support for oil and gas drilling in the Arctic if it is serious about its international commitments to protect the planet, MPs have warned.
Human activity is already pushing the polar region to the brink, as melting sea ice allows heavily polluting ships to enter pristine habitats and nations eye up its precious natural resources.
The Arctic is warming at twice the rate of the rest of the planet, and the resulting unusual weather patterns are already being felt in the UK – for example during this year’s ***“Beast from the East”.
Despite these problems, the government has outlined the importance of fossil fuel companies’ continued exploration of the Arctic “for decades to come”…
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/arctic-uk-oil-gas-fossil-fuels-climate-change-carbon-emissions-environment-a8655926.html
61
HMMMMMM!
29 Nov: Herald Scotland: Blackouts, deaths and civil unrest: warning over Scotland’s rush to go green
Exclusive by Sandra Dick
Scotland faces being plunged into darkness for days, possibly resulting in deaths and widespread civil disobedience, due to the country’s over-reliance on green energy, a new report has warned.
A massive gap in the electricity system caused by the closure of coal-fired power stations and growth of unpredictable renewable generation has created the real prospect of complete power failure.
According the Institution of Engineers in Scotland (IESIS), there is a rising threat of an unstable electricity supply which, left unaddressed, could result in “deaths, severe societal and industrial disruption, civil disturbance and loss of production”.
The organisation is also warning that the loss of traditional power generating stations such as Longannet, which closed in 2016, means restoring electricity in a “black start” situation – following a complete loss of power – would take several days.
Its new report into the energy system points to serious power cuts in other countries, which have resulted in civil disturbance, and warns: “A lengthy delay would have severe negative consequences – the supply of food, water, heat, money, petrol would be compromised; there would be limited communications. The situation would be nightmarish.”…
The startling warning comes against a background of increasing reliance on “intermittent” energy sources such as wind and solar power…
The closure of Hunterston B nuclear power station in Ayrshire, scheduled for 2023, is causing concern there will be an even wider gap in the nation’s electricity supply…
IESIS has published its call to action in a report, Engineering for Energy: A Proposal for Governance of the Energy System, which it plans to take to the Scottish and UK governments…READ ALL
https://www.heraldscotland.com/news/17262860.blackouts-deaths-and-civil-unrest-warning-over-scotlands-rush-to-go-green/
29 Nov: IESIS: Engineering for Energy – A proposal forgovernance of the energy system
Authored by the IESIS Energy Strategy Group
DOWNLOAD THE PAPER
http://www.iesis.org/efore/
80
This is a direct link to the paper:
http://www.iesis.org/efore/engforenergy.pdf
These incompetents are actually recommended a fully planned systems approach based on simulation using actual performance data. Can you believe any competent organisation would actually recommend the following:
This is completely at odds with the way it is done in Australia with guidance from the AEMO technical consultants. The UK engineers have no faith in the “diversity” fairy that allows market based solutions relying solely on capacity factors for intermittents.
If they get their way soon enough they will avoid the complete system collapse that all intermittent intensive grids are heading toward.
Two useful facts:
1. UK has had a national grid since 1926. Real residential unit prices reduced till 2004.
2. Eggborough 2GW coal fired generator closed in September 2018. There are PLANS to build 2.5GW of gas fired generators to replace it.
Scotland could well prove to be the first location in the developed world to suffer serious loss of life through electric grid shutdown and prolonged recovery.
110
I can’t access the rest of this letter as I’ve linked to two Herald articles already. someone else might be able to open it and excerpt more, including who wrote the letter.
29 Nov: Herald Scotland: Letters: Our power grid and the Titanic scenario
MAJOR collapses of developed world electricity grid systems are not uncommon. The rise in renewables increases the probability.
Being able to rapidly “Black Start” the country is a public health priority and, rightly, a public expectation. In Scotland it is presently an unrealisable imperative…
https://www.heraldscotland.com/opinion/17263695.letters-our-power-grid-and-the-titanic-scenario/
60
CNN – still the FakestNews of all:
27 Nov: CNN: Climate scientists aren’t in it for the money but for the truth
by ***Adam Sobel
https://edition.cnn.com/2018/11/27/opinions/nca-november-report-opinion-sobel/index.html?utm_campaign=Carbon%20Brief%20Daily%20Briefing&utm_medium=email&utm_source=Revue%20newsletter
***Wikipedia: Adam H. Sobel is a Professor of Applied Physics and Applied Mathematics and of Earth and Environmental Sciences at Columbia University. He directs its Initiative on Extreme Weather and Climate. His research area is meteorology with a focus on atmospheric and climate dynamics, tropical meteorology, and extreme weather/
***still less than 10 billion euros – not the wildly exaggerated figure the UN was claiming this week:
28 Nov: Deutsche Welle: Germany to double donation for UN climate change fund
by cw/msh (epd, KNA, Reuters)
The pledge comes ahead of a major UN climate conference. Donations to the UN Green Climate Fund are only a fraction of the $100 billion annual goal countries had pledged to reach by 2020.
Gerd Müller said the German government would pay another €750 million ($850 million) in to the UN Green Climate Fund over the next two years, having already paid in a previous pledge of the same sum. Müller also encouraged other countries to increase their contributions…
World leaders agreed to establish the fund in 2010 at a climate conference in Cancun, Mexico and so far nearly ***€10 billion has been pledged from public and private sources…
The sum falls far short of the $100 billion annually that countries had pledged to contribute by 2020…
In all, Germany intends to spend €10 billion annually to fight climate change by 2020, which also includes contributions to the UN Green Climate Fund…
https://www.dw.com/en/germany-to-double-donation-for-un-climate-change-fund/a-46488796?utm_campaign=Carbon%20Brief%20Daily%20Briefing&utm_medium=email&utm_source=Revue%20newsletter
50
Ah.. the attempt to make the indefensible, defensible.
Newspeak, par excellence…..
40
While in a waiting room I read in Choice magazine an article titled something like “5 ways to tell that you are not optimising your energy bills”.
Number 5 was: You live in South Australia. Well, thanks a lot! They were not suggesting we all move interstate, just that SA has the dearest electricity in Australia and ACT has the cheapest.
Number 1 was: You don’t have solar. Save heaps on bills and one day you will be “ahead”.
The others were not worthy of remembering!
130
Actually the title was more like “5 mistakes that people make about their energy costs”.
101
Choice offer an interesting service to its members for electricity supply. The look at the market in your area and will churn you to the cheapest offer every 3 months (or get your current supplier at that date to match it)
00
UN’s Portuguese SOCIALIST Antonio Guteres has something political to say to BBC, but I can’t be bothered watching the video. just seeing the faux seriousness on the face of BBC’s Bryant was all I could take:
VIDEO: 8h ago: BBC: Climate change: ‘It is a global issue we are all failing’
The UN Secretary General Antonio Guterres has warned that ***the rise of nationalism around the world has reduced the political will of some countries to work collectively to tackle global warming…
He was speaking exclusively to our New York Correspondent, Nick Bryant
https://www.bbc.com/news/av/world-46381529/climate-change-it-is-a-global-issue-we-are-all-failing?utm_campaign=Carbon%20Brief%20Daily%20Briefing&utm_medium=email&utm_source=Revue%20newsletter
50
Nationalism – this is , in other words, loving your country and rejecting the evils of communist-spreading globalism.
Globalism means cutting your country off from its history, moral and political foundations, and “sacrificing” your population & children to unelected evil globalists.
You know, I just cant understand why more people dont do it….toxic sludge is good for you….
/sarc
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The UNSGs ALL have supported the IPCC scam. Its their job, even if they are (were) doubtful I suspect they would to the UN line or else.
20
Is there a link to the speech, either video, transcript, or an article by GWPF?
30
I offered the comment you see below to David Middelton who posted an article on WUWT.
The article is
I think the National Climate Assessment (NCA) is and embarrassment. I offered the following comment to David. I hope you find it interesting. I am hard to embarrass so have fun with it.
David
Thanks for the post. I looked at what you presented here and in your post back in April. Here are a few points. I read in another article that the NCA was not based on the solid red line. Rather, it is based on 15F instead. Below is a quote form the article I read:
“That study only found substantial damage to the U.S. economy under an extreme global warming scenario of 15 degrees Fahrenheit by 2100 — twice the United Nations’ worst-case scenario called RCP8.5.”
Your figure 2 shows how it could be 15F if you use the maximum of the shaded area. This is what I would call extreme squared. I used 15F as the basis for what I document here.
Perhaps, this comment is more directed at what you posted back in April, but I hope it adds something.
First, regarding CO2. As you can see in the figure below, I have a very precise fit to the Mauna Loa measurements.
https://i.postimg.cc/htrVSJmw/co2-level.jpg
Ignoring the yearly cycle, I get this rate of change until 2100.
https://i.postimg.cc/ncKDks3z/co2-rate-of-change.jpg
Extending this out to 2100 I get this.
https://i.postimg.cc/kGvgxS7P/co2-level-2100.jpg
I think in the April post you came up with 683 and I came up with 672. Not bad.
Now, onto 15F.
I wrote a little program for this evaluation. I can get to the final temperature of 15F two ways. I can find what ECS value gets me there or I can determine what the final value of CO2 must be with a given ECS value. That is what this little program does.
https://i.postimg.cc/QNY8rjVb/Rule-sheet.jpg
https://i.postimg.cc/Jh77L03p/variable-sheet.jpg
There you have it. If CO2 grows at its current pace as shown in the earlier figures the ECS value must increase to 8.56. If we use the worst-case IPCC value of 4.5 the final PPM value would have to be 1254. That is not too far from your value as I recall.
Now to illustrate just how foolish this report is I added a new line to my graphs in my cyclic analysis of UAH data. My cyclic analysis with a contribution from CO2 is a very good match to the measured data.
https://i.postimg.cc/Px2wj08w/uah-match.jpg
I performed a 5-year moving average of both the measured data and the cyclical data and essentially duplicated a familiar curve that included balloon data. You can see the lines are on top of one another. The figure also includes the Lewis and Curry estimate for ECS too. I added a new line for the NCA 15F estimate.
https://i.postimg.cc/jjC5fCWL/uah-model.jpg
You will also find a line identified as rcp85. That is my digitization of the red line from your figure 2. You will see that the IPCC 4.5 line is a reasonable match for it. Make note of how well the Lewis and Curry value matches the data.
Now taken out to 2100 this is the result.
https://i.postimg.cc/G2WJNW0x/2100.jpg
In my estimation, the people who wrote this report should be ashamed of themselves. It is truly extreme squared. It is fiction.
51
Why are you trying to follow a CO2 trend that doesnt do anything to the temperatures?
I dont believe Mauna Loa either, looks fishy to me. One station at high altitude cant measure the entire planets CO2 proper ratio which varies according to location WIDELY! There is data to show this (no link Ill look later).
60
Couldn’t have picked a worse location if they tried , surrounded by Co2 spewing from nearby Volcanoes.
51
CMay,
Why not cut to the chase — the temperature rise from leaving the LIA to today is neither unusual nor particularly rapid. Compare the current temperature rise to variations and rises in the last 10,000 years and it’s just ordinary. Besides who in their right mind wants to go back to the climate of the LIA?
CO2, smearo-U-2! It a dud, a non-event, just some political propaganda for the rich and powerful to fool the sheeple with.
If they really wanted to understand the climate wouldn’t they have sorted out how atmospheric water vapor works on/in the weather/climate system? To discover what actually determines how clouds start, evolve, and dissipate but no they haven’t, they guess at how clouds function. Some days there can be thousands of tons of water exchanging/transferring massive amounts of energy just above our heads.
What is the energy balance of a cloud, any cloud at any elevation, direction of travel, and air temperature, during the night and day?
How does visible light, IR, and UV scattering by the clouds change as a cloud evolves – and how does that alter the local weather/climate about it?
How does the latent heat of evaporation/condensation operate within any cloud and what are the major influences on them?
How and what cloud parameters change when traveling over oceans, forests, deserts, and cities?… etc., etc.
Who knows? Climate scientists and their inaccurate models — NO!
If you can not accurately model clouds you can not model weather or climate accurately for more than a few days, a week at the most.
Now remind me how do they think they know the temperature of this whole planet to within a 0.1°C for any length of time into the future?
40
Hi Jo
Sorry I missed your talk yesterday, of a lot of people that I follow on the subject of AGW – you’re one of my top browser links. I really would’ve have liked to attend but unfortunately other priorities prevented me from attending. Next time?
Regards
Andrew Sharp
40
The real threats are global cooling and failing crop yields leading to sky-rocketing food prices and mass starvations.
202
Peter that might be a little hard to sell at the moment.
‘The year 2018 is set to become the fourth hottest on record amid mounting signs of global warming, the World Meteorological Organisation (WMO) says.
‘The past four years saw the four highest annual average temperatures since measurements began in the mid-19th century, according to the UN agency.
‘The hottest 20 years all occurred in the past 22 years.’
News.com
43
It is impossible to “sell” such an idea. It’s one of those ideas that people will react only if it happens; not before. That’s life.
60
On a year to date basis UAH has 2018 in 7th place, not within cooee of 4th place.
Below, in order: 1998, 2016, 2010, 2017, 2015, 2002
Fabricated and adjusted data from GISS or similar is almost certainly being used by the WMO.
The “warmest years” in human civilisation, were ALL, by far, in the first 9000 or so years of the Holocene and enabled humans to develop.
156
Oh look, 3 red thumbs but absolutely ZERO counter facts. 🙂
145
https://www.iceagenow.info/mini-ice-age-in-a-matter-of-months/
82
The interesting aspect of this article is the comments. Majority skeptical of global warming but also some true believers.
40
Unusually so. The gullibles don’t normally comment on the site (in my limited experience). Have they been instructed to stir up controversy there? Or is it just the mention of global cooling gets them all very nervous?
81
SCHOOLS
This article is worth reading but don’t miss the comments, and the links provided by some commentators.
https://www.michaelsmithnews.com/2018/11/taxpayer-funded-broadcaster-taxpayer-funded-schools-brainwashed-children.html
72
from the comments… ” quote starts”
These kids are very well organised. They are being manipulated by people within Org350.
They have set up their own website called Strike School for Climate Action
https://www.schoolstrike4climate.com/support-us
[snip]
http://tomballard.com.au/podcast/page/4/
350 org.Ltd(Australia) is an offshoot of 350org.Global
https://350.org.au/about/#australia
350org.Global receives funding from George Soros
https://www.influencewatch.org/non-profit/350-org/
A woman called Blair Palese is the founder and CEO of 350 org Australia. Last job before taking the reins of 350 was with Greenpeace Australia. She originates from the US.
https://au.linkedin.com/in/blair-palese-9b43435
She contributes to The Guardian
https://www.theguardian.com/profile/blair-palese
We know that GetUp organised that protest against Tony Abbott at the Warringah Seniors Centre. One of the organisers was Jake Wishart
https://www.michaelsmithnews.com/2018/11/getup-campaign-meeting-at-warringah-seniors-club-to-oust-tony-abbott.html#comments
Jake Wishart is “Jake Wishart, Senior Climate Change Campaigner for 350.org.au”
https://350.org.au/press-release/alp-coalition-on-notice-in-batman-stop-adani-by-election-launch/
[Revealing someone’s phone number is a bad practice, even if it’s the one you revealed. I snipped that and left the rest of the comment. If anyone goes to the site it will be there but revealed by its owner.] AZ
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This information must be spread as far and wide as possible AndyG55.
It commenced around 1970 and has festered ever since but growing stronger as the years pass.
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It’s interesting to learn that Communist Greens are more deeply embedded than, well than I thought.
72
Yes it would be helpful to have this information spread around before the next election. At least people will be more aware of the type of people running as candidates under the banner of their respective party and ideologies. The great litmus test for the people would then be more representative of their awareness. Personally I still feel much of the populace here are asleep or couldn’t give a damn. It would be great if we were in a similar position as our US counterparts back when Trump was elected. We need to remember Trump didn’t really run as a true Republican but more as an independent capitalist as distinct from standing for crony capitalism/socialism. So for the same sort of outcome to occur here where are political system is very different we would have to see both ALP and LNP fail to form a majority government by a long shot. It will be interesting to see if the public by and large are really that sick of the two parties as we keep hearing about, or the people are just whining for the sake of whining but will still vote as usual.
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Sorry about that AZ. me bad. ! 🙁
34
I was 15 and participated in the anti Vietnam war moratorium protests. Politicians said the same things then. History repeats
30
Ukraine.
Vietnam.
Ukraine.
Russia at work.
Crimea.
MH117
30
“MH117”
Have you seen a broadcast of the Russian military press conference, where they showed:
* published photos of missile serial numbers
* where both the rocket itself and the engine were manufactured, by whom, on what date etc. Hand written entries in official log books of the day.
* when it was shipped to military (similar backup docs – in fact, take that as read for all in the list)
* where it was warehoused, and what military serial number it was given
* which unit it was assigned to and when it was delivered to them
It was assigned to a unit that now belongs to the Ukrainian military since Ukrainian independence.
Press conference had de-classified documents such as the manufacturers docs available to handle. Some military logs were opened to specific pages, but behind glass.
They also had what they claimed was a recording of a Ukrainian politician/military commander saying along the lines of “…do we shoot another airliner down so they know we’re serious?”
This all looked and sounded very convincing, at least as well handled as any US military press briefing. As I recall they answered a handful of questions and then left – there wasn’t much to ask really, given what they presented and how: continuously referring back to previous numbers and so on, to show the full chain first claim, then evidence, next claim, next evidence etc, then again in order without the evidence as an overview.
Ran about 25 mins live on RT.
Take it as you will, the wonder is that I never even heard it happened at all from the MSM – not even Their ABC!
81
Org350, GetUp!, Open Society, Common Purpose, Antifa…
Apart from some sincere low-level foot-sloggers, the people who join and work for these hives are never comfortable without sneaking, undermining, white-anting, secrecy, stunts, theatre, nepotism, favouritism, hierarchy and elitism. It’s the atmosphere they need. To think and speak openly as individuals is foreign to them. To some, the temptation never even arises. Away from the hive they feel they are nothing. Their perceived moral and intellectual superiority absorbed from the hive justifies all, explains all.
I know there are groups on the right of a similar nature, but collectivism tends to shower more of its wealth and resources to the left. Moreover, much right-left tension is artificial. Bloated alphabet agencies that can’t stop growing tentacles know how and why that’s done. The sane shouldn’t care or react too much. It’s good to observe the bizarre but obvious connection between the counter-culture and the military through the 1960s (your fave rock idol was likely born on a military base!), but it’s more important to feel free of the need to manipulate.
I still reckon the answer is not to form our own hives with pretentious or deceptive names, but to go on as many individuals, free and uncoordinated. I know that when I feel the need to manipulate anyone or anything I’m immediately wrong, no matter the cause or the need. That’s been precious knowledge.
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Life in Australia will be intermittent within a decade.
‘Renewable generation installation has accelerated to such an extent it is on track to provide almost 80 per cent of the electricity market by 2030, according to research from consultancy Green Energy Markets.’
ABC
31
Why only 80 per cent I wonder, surely the miracle of unreliable energy (renewable apparently) needs no support?
sarc.
60
The rest will be diesel generated (but not mentioned).
80
Diesel ?…..where did you get that idea from.
No, it will be Gas. Just as it is now in SA, California, UK etc.
And dont belieeve this 80% supply crap, or the other lies (22% supply from RE currently etc)…its all just uninformed lies.
Re will NEVER provide 100% grid power.
30
There isn’t much money left for subsidies. 🙂
86
That’s fine. When the time comes China will probably come in and turn things around with or without our agreement. I’m sure the left will be very happy then – not! More likely they will be the first ones to be culled from society. See very cloud has a silver lining.
90
Interesting date that 2030, crops up all over the place, especially in solar science.
Nils-Axel Mörner —
(PDF) The Approaching New Grand Solar Minimum and Little Ice Age Climate Conditions. Available from: https://www.researchgate.net/publication/284205134_The_Approaching_New_Grand_Solar_Minimum_and_Little_Ice_Age_Climate_Conditions [accessed Dec 01 2018].
Says Royal Astronomical Society (RAS)
See https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2015/07/150709092955.htm
Of course by then the UN insists that we’re all hooked into wind and solar electricity generation. That will help when the winters are like a Dalton minimum.
Australia by that time should be struggling along with even more wind and solar.
says —
https://www.researchgate.net/publication/317402570_A_large-scale_renewable_electricity_supply_system_by_2030_Solar_wind_energy_efficiency_storage_and_inertia_for_the_South_West_Interconnected_System_SWIS_in_Western_Australia
¯
¯
Solar minimum -- Batteries not included!30
you go girl!
31
Good news Comrades , renewables are saving us and the planet with the majority of our power to be generated from unicorn pharts by 2030 !
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2018-11-30/renewables-now-heading-for-80-per-cent-of-electricity-market/10567838
71
At this very moment the 5,452 Mw of installed wind energy in Australia is generating the princely sum of 93 Mw.
140
That was before the sun came up and when it was needed. Now that the sun is up and the solar has lifted its game the wind is also up to 450MW. The 600MW battery that is Victoria has swung from supplying 230MW to SA at 0500 to now absorbing 220MW at 1030.
Can you imagine the mayhem when there is 50GW of wind going up down over hourly periods.
I find it hard to imagine the forecast grid scale intermittents will meet economic hurdles. The proponents would be foolish to base the capacity factors on anything close to the unconstrained CFs. The diversity fairy is make believe and that will become increasingly apparent.
100
A new game for Christmas presents, roulette played with wind turbines and solar panels.
30
As an alternative see how easy it is to be a cattle baron
https://www.beefcentral.com/cattle-baron/new-cattle-baron-board-game-ideal-christmas-present/
40
https://s3.us-east-2.amazonaws.com/redpowerphotos/monthly_2018_11/1022352979_toiletpapermoney.jpeg.6b90259af07feb7805252c94270359f8.jpeg
US currency but the idea seems to fit here
20
Some idiot will use that as a justification that you need MOAR!!!!
Then another idiot will red thumb you for even mentioning it, without even giving the slightest thought to well, if that can happen how can we ever be 100% “renewable” Such are religious beliefs.
00
toorightmate
worse than the low-performance of wind!
long intro.
only interested in Hauber-Davidson talking about storm water harvesting around 4min25sec.
says there’s a whole range of storm water harvesting schemes(?) that we have all over Sydney. we were super busy installing them during Millennium drought, with a lot of generous funding support, but the very sad fact – and that’s actually the real scandal in the whole scheme of things – is the majority of them, paid for with our good taxpayer money, they are now idle, doing nothing, because councils or whoever owns them can’t find a few thousand dollars to replace a pump or do whatever is required to re-commission them again.
sadly, McLaren doesn’t respond to these revelations or ask for details, such as how much taxpayer money, how many schemes, etc. he goes on to other aspects of the story:
AUDIO: 12min39sec: 30 Nov: 2GB: Michael McLaren: Could we capture storm water instead of using the de-sal plant?
The long mothballed desalination plant will be switched on again soon even though more than one month’s worth of rain fell in just two hours across Sydney earlier this week. Michael talks to water conservation expert Guenter Hauber-Davidson, Managing Director of WaterGroup, and asks could Sydney ever capture storm water rather than let it flow out to sea?
https://www.2gb.com/podcast/could-we-capture-storm-water-instead-of-using-the-de-sal-plant/
40
from a PDF file whose url I can’t copy for some reason:
There are a number of projects across the Sydney region that collect and reuse stormwater. Sydney Water generally does not have a role in establishing or operating smaller local schemes, but will support and help facilitate access to the stormwater supply from its stormwater system. The number of stormwater harvesting projects is constantly growing. For an up-to-date list, visit http://www.waterforlife.nsw.gov.au/recycling/stormwater.
Grants and funding The NSW Government, through the NSW Climate Change Fund, provides funding for water savings projects in NSW. A number of stormwater harvesting projects have received grants from the NSW Government to re-use stormwater to save water and protect the environment. To find out more, visit http://www.environment.nsw.gov.au/grants
The Australian Government has also funded stormwater harvesting projects in the past through the Department of Sustainability, Environment, Water, Population and Communities. Future grants will be advertised through their website. To find out more, visit http://www.environment.gov.au.
Stormwater harvesting documents
https://www.environment.nsw.gov.au/search?q=stormwater+harvesting
search results “stormwater harvesting”
https://www.environment.gov.au/search/site/stormwater%20harvesting
20
the PDF file states:
For an up-to-date list, visit http://www.waterforlife.nsw.gov.au/recycling/stormwater
BUT…YOU NEED TO LOG IN, WITH PASSWORD!!!
https://www.metrowater.nsw.gov.au/user/login?destination=/planning-sydney/recycling/stormwater
HOW TO GET THE FULL LIST OF NON-WORKING SCHEMES? CAN ANYONE HELP OUT?
20
ps, I have nothing against stormwater harvesting as such, its just that it really is a piddling amount.
Can be useful for small project to control run-off and provide some water during low rainfall periods, but capacity is limited, and run-off from suburban streets requires far more treatment than se-water to make it suitable for human consumption.
The pollutant load for a start can be very high, and I am talking real pollution, not suitable for plant growth.
Stormwater harvesting is best done in bulk, and Sydney has 9 main dams that do this already, from basically near-pristine watersheds.. !
84
The problem with stormwater is that it is “climate dependent”, and the Sydney metropolitan area does not have places where it can be stored in sufficient large amounts. It is fiddling around the edges, just like wind and solar (except not destructive to the supply system.)
Australia has one of the most erratic rainfalls in the world, “either drought or plenty”
The population of Sydney continues to grow and the effect of water saving appliance upgrades is running down, and demand is starting to increase more quickly than in the last couple of decades.
Unless another MAJOR large storage dam is built, something like Welcome Reef, then Sydney will have no choice but to work with “climate independent” sources, such as de-sal and re-use.
64
thanks for the replies.
my concern is how much taxpayer money was granted for these schemes? it sounded like it was a LOT. and none are now operational?
i’d like to see a summary of the cost to taxpayers and the number of schemes and their overall capacity.
in the interview, Hauber-Davidson said Sydney gets plenty of rain – think he said 1,000mls annually.
20
Its the same syndrome as bushfire rebuilding. Govts and well intentioned charities dump millions into an area building bigger and better infrastructure, the the local govt cant afford to maintain and operate all the new stuff arriving in one hit with no wriggle room in their budget.
Just because a water capture system falls from the sky due to govt largesse, it doesnt mean the local authority is skilled and financed to operate it and keep it alive.
00
The Australian Renewable Energy Target (RET) as currently legislated is 33,000 GWhr per year of large scale electricity generation from renewables by 2020. According to Tony’s report on the last 8 weeks of electricity generation in the AEMO region (so excluding WA and NT), we are currently running at 31,200 GWhr per year with plenty more in the pipeline to meet the target. If you add in rooftop solar, renewables generation is running at a rate of over 40,000 GWhr per year.
I can’t see on the Clean Energy Regulator’s website what the target is for small scale renewable certificates, but it would seem that Australia is going to well and truly exceed the RET targets.
Can the government therefore immediately cancel the sale of renewable energy certificates that are driving up electricity costs? Minister Angus Taylor, minister for getting electricity prices down according to PM Morrison, when are you going to take action? After all, we keep getting told ad nauseam that renewables are so cheap. Some good news, LGCs were selling for about $85/MWhr earlier in the year, but spot prices are now under $65, while STCs are holding steady at about $35.
60
I posted this comment last night on the “Midweek Unthreaded”. But the parade had moved on here..Ummmm..
So so I can have the benefit of feedback, I copying here :
THERE IS NO CO2 CLIMATE WARMING ON MARS !!!
Does increased CO2 in the atmosphere cause the earth to warm ?
A comparison with Mars is worth noting. In fat it’s very interesting
CO2 makes up 96% of the composition of it’s atmosphere and weighs ~24 terratonnes.
By contrast CO2 in the Earth’s atmosphere is 0.00048 % & weighs ~ 2.4 terratonnes.
(All these figures come from Wikipedia. I’m not making them. )
Ummmmmm ? Let’s think about that folks..
Despite all that CO2 in the Martian atmosphere, there is NO CO2 greenhouse warming to speak of..
In Winter ambient temperature on Mars can reach a minimum of -136 degrees C..Very bloody cold ! And in Summer ambient temperature gets a maximum of just 35 degrees C.
What’s all that CO2 on Mars doing ? Maybe all that martian CO2 is just not pulling it’s climate warming weight…..
Or is that all the water on Mars is frozen solid under the .. And there is no water vapor in the Martian atmosphere to really get a greenhouse effect going…like we have here on much warmer, much more livable, & much pleasanter, Earth
By the way this has all been said & written about before. But still the CO2 ‘Climate Warmists’ are still crying ‘Wolf, Wolf, Wolf ’ at rising CO2 here in order to scare us…Dopiness abounds..
And unfortunately it looks like our own local SA member has also decided to believe it as well…
141
Good argument, there must be a rational explanation. I’ll do some research.
60
El Gordo It is the big, huge scientific ‘BLACK SWAN’ of all the CO2 Warming global hypothesis…
If CO2 warms the earth it should warm Mars as well with CO2 at 96% of the atmosphere..
But it fails completely on Mars….
Dopey buggers !
121
And Venus, Ill get the calcs sometime on here. PROOF!
50
Hmm? …post gone missing ??
Bill, im sure you know that this is the. “Fact that must not be discussed” with alarmists .
Mars has a very low atmospheric pressure ,..6.0 mbar
….that might just be important !
But also, it is 50% further away from the sun than earth, and as such recieves much less energy from the sun.
50
Chad I know all about the low atmospheric pressure on Mars…
But the differences as regards CO2 Warming are less than imagined..
1 : Most of the earth’s atmosphere is Nitrogen (77% ) which is completely transparent to thermal radiation whether incoming and outgoing.
2: Another 23% of the earth’s atmosphere is Oxygen which is also transparent to thermal radiation both incoming & out going…
So the fact that Mars has no Nitrogen or Oxygen in it’ atmosphere makes for no difference..
There is lots of CO2 on Mars (96) but No water vapor which means it’s bloody cold.
There’s quite a lot of water vapor in Earth’s atmosphere but bugger all CO2..And so we have climate warming..
It’s true that Mars is further away from the sun than Earth and does receive less intense solar radiation & light but it’s not that much further..Not like Jupitor or Saturn or Uranus etc..
So it’s the lack of water vapor which is making the difference.
91
The CO2 is thin on the ground and mostly frozen. Chad is right about the pressure.
https://www.nasa.gov/press-release/goddard/2018/mars-terraforming
50
Interesting link El Gordo..but the authors start from the assumption that CO2 does the warming and that there is not enough of it to terraform Mars….
I don’t make that assumption..I suggest that CO2 doe does cause climate warming either here or on Mars..it is water vapor which is the climate warming gas here on Earth..And it’s absence on Mars because it is all frozen, puts Mars into an almost permanent ice age..
By the way water vapor in the atmosphere is constantly being added to on Earth from meteors etc. ( I remember reading about 40,000 tons a year in New Scientist.)
I wonder if that happens to Mars.And if not, why ?
82
I cocked up in my comment above. I meant to say ” I suggest that CO2 does NOT cause climate warming either here or on Mars.”
60
It seems to work really really well on Venus… 🙂 … even better than it works here on the Third and Fourth Rocks. The temperature at the surface is 467° C and the pressure is 93 bar, roughly the pressure at c. 500 fathoms (3,000ft) underwater on Earth. Venus’s atmosphere is 96.5% CO2, whereas Mars is only 95.7% CO2 (both sccording to Wikipedia). That may be why it doesn’t work so well on Mars, it being just under the 96% tipping point … 🙂
70
So let’s increase the CO2 concentration on Mars and Venus and see what happens – true scientific experiments. Or do we build more models?
70
Venus is interesting.
1: It is very close to the sun so the level of solar radiation is far more intense than on Earth or Mars.
2 The planet’s sidereal day of 243 days. That means the one side of Venus faces the sun for 243 days..
3 : These two facts make for very intense heating of the surface on Venus.
4 : Yes the atmosphere is 97% but that is correlation not causation. There is no need for CO2 warming on Venus…
This is an interesting discussion ! Thanks to those who are replying. I will change my opinion on this issue if one of us comes up with Facts that falsify my hypothesis.
just one Black swan is all that’s needed…
But so far…Nada !
70
Hi Bill, and everyone else on this sub-thread:
I posted an answer to one of our resident trolls, Craig Thomas, back on the ‘Ocasio-Cortez’ thread, suggesting a discussion of Freshman Astrophysics (and, more specifically, planetary atmospheres). Keep in mind that much of this predates the level of information we have on Venus (Venera landers, Magellan, etc), but is still relevant:
First, a couple of definitions; SubSolar BlackBody Temperature: the temperature of a terrestrial body w/o an atmosphere (most relevant example, our own natural satellite).
Equilibrium BlackBody Temperature: temperature of a slowly rotating (T ~ 10 Earth days) with a nominal atmosphere. The authors of our text, Zeilik and Smith, chose to use a nitrogen/oxygen atmosphere as their ‘nominal’. Note that a ‘nominal’ must also be devoid of any and all “greenhouse” gasses, to include water vapor, carbon dioxide, nitrous oxide, methane, etc etc etc.
Through a series of calculations (some of which included proofs), and using the current albedo figures for Venus, Moon, Earth, and Mars, they showed the following theoretical temperatures (and, please note my comment at the end, OK? Thanks!):
Venus…….325 Kelvins
Moon……..255 Kelvins*
Earth…….277 Kelvins
Mars……..202 Kelvins
Each of these uses the “observed” albedo of each body; we know that the Earth, for example, would NOT have an albedo of 0.3, if we removed any and all water, water vapor, and the like. As we have two dominant rock types at the surface, sialic, and mafic, the two types together would alter our albedo significantly. Likewise, Venus, having immobile continents (as far as we can tell) also has just two dominant rock types, and we know the Venusian “ocean” basins are floored by mostly mafic type rocks, so it is reasonable that Venus would have an albedo similar to the moon, if the atmosphere was transparent.
*This is actually a SubSolar BB temperature, and coincidentally enough, matches the observed “average” temperature of the lunar surface, which, in truth, only has two modes: hot (daylight) and cold (nighttime). With the Moon’s albedo, and a ‘nominal’ atmosphere, the Equilibrium BB temperature of the moon would be closer to 290 Kelvins.
Now, what’s wrong with this picture? Well, nothing really; we’re comparing apples to apples. As has been pointed out, Venus receives just under twice the amount of solar radiation as the Earth, and Mars receives about half of what the Earth does, so the ‘theoreticals’ make sense. Let us consider Venus for just a moment: ostensibly, because of this dense, 96% CO2 atmosphere, Venus’ observed temperature of well over 700 Kelvins is proof-positive of the “runaway greenhouse effect” from the “greenhouse gas”, carbon dioxide. OK, I can accept that — — except that the various landers, as they descended through the Venusian atmosphere, recorded temperatures at various levels. Funny thing: when they passed the level in the Venusian atmosphere with a pressure of one bar (Earth sea level pressure), the temperature they measured was in the vicinity of 320 – 330 Kelvins!
Hmmmmm. PV = nRT anyone?
It is oft-cited that the “temperature” of the Earth, w/o ANY “greenhouse gasses” would be this bone-chilling 255 Kelvins. Well, OK, except that an “atmosphere”, any “atmosphere” has measurable physical characteristics, such as ‘heat capacity’, and the like. Further, unlike General Circulation Models (now there’s an oxymoron) which set convection and advection to zero, a ‘nominal’ atmosphere is free to engage in such things as convection and advection, which means that said atmosphere can distribute and store heat, even without “greenhouse” gasses present. The most glaring failure of current climatology is to assume that only “greenhouse” gasses can retain heat. That is a blatantly false statement.
So, according to our calculation, with just nitrogen, and oxygen in the atmosphere, we should be at about 277 Kelvins, if our ocean-free basaltic crust kept our albedo at just 0.3. If we moved even slightly towards an albedo of 0.25, our Equilibrium BB would be closer to 285 Kelvins. Not so much of a difference from our generally-assumed 288 Kelvins, with all of that “heat-trapping” water vapor around.
And then there’s Mars: wow, what an enigma! Here it is, getting a pittance of solar radiation, and even with an atmosphere (yes, it is very thin, and has a VERY hard time retaining heat) that resembles Venus, it can’t even make it to its theoretical 202 Kelvins, coming in at a general average of about 190 Kelvins.
I really do not know how much more proof a warmist needs to see that the claims of carbon dioxide’s “heat trapping” and “greenhouse” effect are substantially, and wildly, and psychotically overblown. You cannot make the case that historical Earth temperature (for the past 750 million years) and carbon dioxide concentration have any correspondence to each other, yet they persist in telling us that too much carbon dioxide will “smother” (h/t C.T.) us.
Sure hope that helps, and stimulates further discussion. If I have a way to do it, I’ll see if I can make scans of those pages from my Freshman Astropysics text, and allow others to chime in (Mods: might need a little help with this … … … I’m very old, and not very tech-savvy … … … )
The Depraved-est and MOST-EST Deplorable-est Vlad the Impaler-est, a crashing bore-est and an even bigger-est bully-est, according to C.T.
80
Excellent outline Vlad.
P.V = nRT. The Key.
Sadly Climate Scientists/Political Scientists are unaware of this reality.
It’s also good to be aware that doing a surface temperature estimate on the planets has a few issues besides albedo. One that comes to mind is the effect of core temperature at the surface.
In the end, very basic gas physics denies global warming theory via CO2 and if this isn’t enough, a simple quantitative assessment of greenhouse gases operating in the same wave bands as CO2 ends the madness.
Quantitatively, water is the overwhelming guy, next is natural origin CO2 and last and totally impotent and irrelevant is Human Origin CO2.
KK
70
Re my above,
guy ????? Could be effect .
40
Hey Vlad, thank you for that long & detailed comment…
But I have a problem.
I am dealing with this issue on another facebook group post..And the folks there are not scientifically literate..
I doubt I can translate the detailed science of your comment into English that they understand.
Any suggestions about how to deal with this ?
Bill
PS : The Earth is in fact 2/3rds Ocean And we live on an Ocean world with the deep seas, evaporation & water vapor constant, natural parts of the climate & thus temperature regime. These features are what give us the climate we have…Which is very unlike the moon our nearest largish neighbour… Thoughts ?
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Hi Bill,
Wow! That’s a toughie! My Freshman Astrophysics presumed a working knowledge of PDE’s, just as one of the pre-requisites to start the class. Co-registration was acceptable, but only with Dr. Malcolm Dycke’s written permission.
Yes, we DO live on a ‘water world’; the terrestrial habitat is in the distinct minority, but remember, the theoretical Equilibrium BB temperature is ONLY a theoretical construct, and not the ‘actual’ temperature. And, as I pointed out, the assumed albedo would change significantly, since liquid water has a highly different albedo than any mafic rock. We could easily slide into a lunar albedo, sans oceans, and there goes the EquiBB temperature (north of 300 Kelvins is not out of the question).
And, before I forget, my sincere apologies for the length of the post in the first place. I tend to post very long, very boring, and very pointless things, especially on Jo’s site. Anthony, I can often post short quips. For some reason, Jo brings out the orator in me … … …
Here’s what I suggest: assuming we do not step on any toes w/ copyright and blog rules, and what-not, I wonder if you might take 23.1.1.4.1, and, with notice that this is what you are doing, cut-and-paste it into your discussion group. I like hanging at Jo’s (and Anthony’s), and if any of them want to hit me back w/ questions, or seek any kind of clarification, I’ll do my best to see if I can field any questions. I’ve (literally) taught generations of Math, Geology, and incipient aviator-students, so I’m fairly practiced at taking complex stuff and putting it into lay terms.
To date, anyone who had ridden right seat w/ me, and is now a four-striper, has not had a violation, incident, accident, or enforcement action from the FAA, so I’d like to think I managed to teach them well.
I would, if we have permission, include this post, and your post, asking for assistance, w/ some “commercial breaks” in between, where you explain what has transpired here.
Otherwise, I’ll have to transcribe the relevant pages of Zeilik and Smith, and see if there is a way to post them in a file here, for all to examine, and critique.
Does that help at all?
Regards,
Vlad
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Hi Vlad. Where did you teach the aviator students?
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Hi Vlad, I have done what you suggested..We’ll see what the response will be…I’ll let you know ! Again Thanks,
20
Vlad, ..accepting the BB theory etc,…
Isnt the Venus situation complicated/ unique due to the dense layers of various gas clousd, seversl miles thick, that are reported to be permanently shrouding the planet ?
20
Vlad, well I posted your long comment..And I have had three responses demanding to know who you are, or mocking the fact that you write anonymously…
But not a twiddle of word about what you say…
And these folk supposedly have science degrees…Bugger ! Here is one of the comments & my response:
James Sadler Sorry but the veracity of the post is seriously undermined by the anonymity of the author. Just delete the ad hominem attacks if they surface.
Manage
Like
Bill in Oz : James I am old enough too remember when a lot of controversial was publised anonymously to prevent such ‘Ad Hominem’ stuff…And the possibility of being demoted or sacked as well.by various authorities…In recent decades folks have demanded to know authors’ names because that make’s it very easy for lazy readers to skim through and then just say, Yes, that’s right” on the basis of the ‘Authority’ of the famous author. And as I am sure you know, any argument from AUTHORITY always has the lowest ranking in an argument…So…..What do you think of the scientific argument presented in that post by our scientific author? Surely it’s the science that matters not who wrote it… At least that is what I was taught at school & at university when I was a lot younger…
What do you think ?
Cheers
Bill
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Hi everyone,
Sorry for the absence; life happened, and the better half, along w/ the grandkids we are raising, intervened.
First, Annie, it was part of my job as an Air Taxi (“Charter”) pilot to bring the young ones along, and show them Standard Operating Procedures, and what-not, just as the “greybeards” had done with me. I flew mostly out of Salt Lake City, though at times, I had been based in parts of Nevada, New Mexico, and I even did a stint working out of Tulsa, but, by the Grace of Our Lord and Saviour, it was mercifully brief. Yes, I squeezed some degrees in there as well, in the era before there was all this ‘on-line’ stuff. If you ask ‘how?’ did I do it, I honestly have no idea. I think it was just, “Cowboy up! Git ‘er done!” Mostly, I was in my late teens and early twenties, so that may have been part of it.
Greetings, Chad: Yes, you are MOST correct, there is this business with those sulfur clouds, and it is a great complication. Let us go back to the (now) known structure of the Venusian cloud layers, and where, in that atmosphere, the pressure equals Earth surface pressure.
The clouds exist mainly at two levels, and are easily tens of kilometres thick; there is a ‘clear’ area between the two (and, of course, remember that they are dynamic, so the structure is constantly changing), and then at about 40 – 45 kilometres from the surface, we enter into the (almost) pure carbon dioxide part of Venus atmosphere. Several of the Venera, during their descent, recorded the pressure of one bar, and temperature close to 320 Kelvins (as stated, there was some variation, as different landers descended to their respective touchdown sites).
Now, let us back up to the presentation shown in my Astrophysics text: the “theoretical” temperatures were calculated using the measured albedos of the various celestial bodies. On Earth, the 277 Kelvins came from the existing albedo of 0.3, and Venus’ 325 came from using the 0.77 accepted value. As you point out, the cloud layers complicate any calculations concerning theoretical temperatures. That the two matched as well as they did should be taken as an indication that there is some substance to the theory (in this context, ‘theory’ should be taken to mean ‘underlying Mathematical principles’, and not the intermediate step between ‘hypothesis’ and ‘law’). What we should be using is Venus’ ‘transparent atmosphere’ albedo, which, as I discussed earlier, may not be different from the Moon, given the small ‘continental’ areas of (presumed) silicic crust, and the extensive ‘ocean’ basins, floored by mafic crust. Back-of-the-envelope calculation, Venus’ Equilibrium BB temperature in that ‘nominal’ atmosphere could easily reach 500 Kelvins, but this is more poetry than truth.
And, realistically, we have no idea of the insulation effect of kilometres upon kilometres of sulfuric acid, sulfur dust, and associated compounds. Along with the surface pressure, I’ve often wondered how much effect those clouds have on maintaining primordial heat. Note that above, someone brought in the complicating factor of escaping core heat. Let’s not go there … … … …
Hope that helps, Chad. I may be ‘out of action’ for much of the remaining weekend, but I’ll do my best to get back here.
Hi Bill: sorry to place you last. I thought my reply to Chad would be shorter than it was.
OK — anonymity: I’ve posted here, and at Anthony’s, under my real name. After one fairly acrimonious exchange with someone using the handle, “Harry TwinOtter”, his final response to me was an attempt (I think) to insult me, by addressing me as “[redacted first name] ‘Vlad the Impaler’ [redacted last name]”. Both he and I knew he had been thoroughly skewered. At the time, I had no idea there was an historical figure, Vlad the Impaler, so I was quite amused.
Now, couple that with a time previous to JoNova and WUWT, and I was engaged in a discussion with some lovely chaps (on-line, like this). Out of the blue, I would get phone calls that were either hang-ups, or, as the discussions deepened, death threats, and at one point (which is when I left those discussions), two of my grandchildren, by name, were threatened with violence, as was my wife, again, by name.
Yes, we were in the “Information Age”, and nothing can be kept private.
So, back to Jo and Anthony, after a time, and remembering the incident with family members being brought into the discussion, against my will, I approached them about adopting the moniker, ‘Vlad the Impaler’, still with no clue that this was a real person, at one time. Jo was reluctant, stating that I could choose something, ” … not so violent …”, Anthony had no issue with it; as time went along, and people like me were labeled ‘deplorable’ by HRC, and now ‘depraved’ by whats-his-face in the NYT, I’ve embellished their childish attempts to insult us by adopting the names they use for us.
I wish someone had taken a photo of me, when I turned on American Heros Channel, and watched the episode on Vlad, the Impaler. It was fascinating! I can see why Mr. TwinOtter (or as I call him, Dr. DeHavilland) imparted this moniker to me. And, what could be more co-incidental than this: years ago, I was right-seat on DcHavilland Twin Otters, flying out of Logan, Utah, for a bit over a year. Nice, robust aircraft, and easy to fly. It was not long after that, that I earned my fourth stripe, and now, I’m trying desperately to free the younger crowd from the shackles they seem so eager to enslaves themselves with.
If you would, please let your friends know that I gain nothing from them, financially, by freeing them from their imaginary fears. The Al Gores, Gavin Schmidts, Christina Figueres (sp?) and David Suzukis, are all trying desperately to enslave them, rule over them, control them, and own them. In doing so, they take virtually everything from them, including their humanity, whose base yearning is to live free, and unfettered, and making the most of this one life we get. I think it is Dr. Walter Williams who says that he constantly tries to sell his fellow Americans on the concept of Liberty. Why anyone would have to deliberately work, and seemingly hitting his head against a brick wall, to ‘sell’ someone on the concept of Liberty, and Freedom, is the enigma of the age. The young are so programmed, anymore, to just accept slavery, and serfdom, and accept imposed limits upon them, by those whose benificence extends only to enriching themselves at the expense of the ‘little guys’ (like me). I am failing to understand what has broken down so badly in our society, that young people actually seek living under totalitarianism. I do not understand it, but I will keep up the good fight, until such time as I am called Home, and brother, let me tell you, almost every day, it gets more and more appealing to hasten that day; I guess the grandkids will need my wife and I for a bit more, so if the Good Lord chooses to have me stick around, I’ll do my best, and fight the forces of ignorance, just as Dr. Williams does.
Again, long, boring, pointless — — — are you sure YouTwitFace has this much storage?
Regards,
Vlad
20
Vlad, thanks for your reply, again !
I read through your remarks about Venus and was hit by one thought :’It’s complicated, way complicated” So let’s no longer go there hey ?
I appreciate your frankness about preserving your own anonymity. And actually agree as well. The Greenists are ideologically driven here in Oz just as they are elsewhere in the US & Europe or the UK…
In the past 24 hours since I posted your long comment there has been not one science informed or based reply. Not one. Instead the parade ( 3 people only involved) moved on to making abusive remarks about me. But I’m the moderator so those were all deleted with a warning that any more abusive or ad hominen stuff will lead to them being blocked. One person ( supposedly a scientist ) I muted for a day as a sort of reminder. Nice to exercise that power !
Finally I will copy your paragraph about why you now post anonymously and past it in as a reply comment. I wonder if it will draw a response ?
Again thanks,
Bill
20
The atmosphere is shallow, the surface pressure is About
40
Grr, to finish 0.6% of earth, the low pressure causes Mars to have low temperature, check earth’s atmosphere at the 600 Pascal mark.
50
But the actual amount of CO2 just in the Martian atmosphere is 24 terratonnes !
That’s a huge amount of carbon Dioxide..
(And the Earth has just 2.3-4 terratonnes…)
Why isn’t all that humungous CO2 doing it’s global warming thing on Mars..? ( Ok I’m being sarcastic )
110
Because CO2 doesn’t warm, compressed gas hearted from the bottom does
10
I watched a short video by Tony Heller on YouTube a couple of nights ago that has this as the subject matter.
Goldilocks And The Three Planets – A Global Warming Fairy Tale
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AIEYtLNm2Hc
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I was interested in the link that had me watching Jordan Peterson about the EU surviving. I haven’t been a Jordan Peterson watcher but it was interesting even if he lost his beard halfway through the U-tube. I leave it to those interested to follow his “heirachical” theory but I think he is correct that the EU is “too big to survive”.
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I think the EU will die one day, too many now are fed up with the diktat of the EU (unelected) bureaucrats in Brussles.
30
Thanks Joseph..I looked at it and forwarded it on to a few folk..Good
Bill
10
The short form answer to the whole Mars CO2 question will be something like this;
“So, you are saying you want the earth to look like Mars then!”
30
COP24-time? now it’s the turn of the Red Cross and Red Crescent Societies’ World Disasters Report:
30 Nov: ABC: Chart of the day: Bushfires, cyclones and floods put Australia in the world’s natural disaster top 10
By business reporter Stephen Letts
The 2018 International Federation Red Cross and Red Crescent Societies’ World Disasters Report (LINK) found Australia’s damage bill over the past decade came in at $37 billion (or $US27 billion).
That ranks us 10th in terms of the cost of natural disasters, but still a fair way behind the big three disaster zones: the US, China and Japan which together account for about two-thirds of the total financial cost the IFRC added up between 2008 and 2017.
Our Asia-Pacific region seems to be the most disaster-prone on the planet, being bit by around 40 per cent of the 335 disasters recorded worldwide in 2017 and suffered almost 60 per cent of disaster-related deaths…
CHART
The IFRC’s definition of natural disasters includes storms, floods, earthquakes, volcanic activity and droughts, but not epidemics.
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2018-11-30/natural-disaster-economic-impact-chart/10499688
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Tomorrow belongs to me. The Hitler youth from Cabaret
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Sorry, popped up out of context. My point was the appeal of the Greens to our youth and disaster awaits them. A replay of the 1930s.
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See 1.2.2.1
40
History repeats.
20
Today thousands of school children walked out of school to protest government inaction on Climate Change.
It’s what their teachers tell them to do.
Tomorrow belongs to them.
110
It’s odd how teachers hate Religious schools and teach religion in their own and teach children civil disobedience.
102
Here’s the ABC coverage (of course):
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2018-11-30/australian-students-climate-change-protest-scott-morrison/10571168
No doubt the kids were given plenty of coaching in class, and time and materials to express “themselves.”
That said, I will pay the “cabinet” sign … that one was amusing.
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If you look closely at the group of cute little school girls
Check out her arm on the girl on the right!
Disgusting!
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Sorry – here’s the link to the photo I am referring to!
https://twitter.com/SirMickW/status/1068418635645894656
20
A real armful.
Welcome to 2018 where thinking is all about copying the person next to you.
Kool.
31
I see the protester on the right has both arms decorated … so she can tell her left from her right?
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I feel sorry for the kids they are being used as emotional blackmail by eco nuts. They (kids) cant understand what they are even protesting about even if its true or not. They are all brainwashed to save the planet. Remember this “give me a child of 7 and Ill give you the man!” Hitler.
21
Hitler?? you arent serious are you?
00
No. I believe this is not serious. I have heard this quotation ascribed to a leader of the Jesuits from a previous century. And NEVER to Hitler.
00
29 Nov: ClimateChangeNews: The world’s poorest countries know the Paris Agreement needs strong rules
On behalf of one billion people on the front lines of climate change, we will be pushing for accountability at UN climate talks in Katowice, Poland
By Gebru Jember Endalew
(Gebru Jember Endalew is an Ethiopian negotiator and chair of the least developed countries group at UN climate negotiations)
I chair the group of the 47 least developed countries (LDCs) at the UN climate negotiations. Our countries’ vulnerabilities to climate change mean we are hurt the most by its effects; floods, droughts and storms stunt our development. The science is clear that these impacts – and more – are only going to increase in intensity and frequency. We are among those who suffer the most from climate change, despite contributing the least to its cause…
We are facing a global emergency; the IPCC report on 1.5C made that clearer than ever…
But to enable a bold response from all, rich countries must commit to making more finance available for poor countries. Funds are desperately needed to help communities adapt to a changing climate for which they hold little responsibility, address the loss and the damage it causes, and avoid the dirty development pathways of the past.
Climate finance is a critical issue for the LDC Group. The cost for developing countries to pursue their plans to tackle climate change – the same plans that, in their current form, would still lead to more than 3C of warming – is in the trillions. On this, the lead negotiator on finance, Evans Njewa from Malawi, emphasizes that: “Our countries have ambitious plans for addressing climate change, but we lack the resources to make them a reality. There is an urgent need to scale up finance to meet the actual needs of poor countries.”
To tackle climate change, we cannot act alone: we must all go together, or we will not go at all. We need to see governments committing to immediate action to implement transformative change across all sectors. We need to see delivery of promises made…
http://www.climatechangenews.com/2018/11/29/worlds-poorest-countries-know-paris-agreement-needs-strong-rules/
how about we all ditch Paris. problem solved.
60
Minister for Environment off to Poland to talk climate change sh*t …
https://www.michaelsmithnews.com/2018/11/morrison-lnp-govt-committed-to-paris-and-to-lecturing-other-countries-on-climate-change.html
10
all over the MSM:
30 Nov: SMH: Peter Hannam: Temperatures on track for 5-degree rise by 2100 after another hot year
This year is on course to be the fourth hottest year on record, trailing only the three previous years, as rising levels of greenhouse gases warm the planet, the World Meteorological Organisation said.
Up to October 31, mean temperatures in 2018 were an estimated 0.98 warmer than the average for 1850-1900, according the UN agency’s provisional State of the Global Climate report…
Petteri Taalas, WMO Secretary-General: “Greenhouse gas concentrations are once again at record levels and if the current trend continues we may see temperature increases 3 to 5 degrees by the end of the century.”…
TWEET: 16 Nov: Gavin Schmidt: As I’ve predicted since Jun, 2018 is going to come in as 4th warmest year in the modern record and 4th year in a row more that 1ºC above late 19th Century in GISTEMP…
For Australia, mean temperatures for the first 10 month of the year were the fifth-highest in records going back to 1910, the Bureau of Meteorology said…
https://www.smh.com.au/environment/climate-change/temperatures-on-track-for-5-degree-rise-by-2100-after-another-hot-year-20181129-p50j8g.html
not political:
30 Nov: SMH: Striking students defy PM to protest at inaction on climate change
By Josh Dye; with AAP
Students gathered from 11am in Martin Place in Sydney’s CBD, with loud cheers and chanting whenever a new group arrived. Some families brought picnic blankets and snacks.
A smattering of police officers gathered on the fringes. One was overheard to express his disgust at the idea of skipping school to attend a rally…
Left-wing activist groups handed out signs and posters, trying to insert themselves and their agendas in the student-led campaign…
“Hey hey, ho ho, ScoMo has got to go,” was another chant, referring to Prime Minister Scott Morrison, who this week, condemned the proposed strike.
The NSW Education Department threatened that public school students could face disciplinary action.
“Any student not in classes on a school day will be marked absent and may be subject to the school’s disciplinary code,” a spokesperson said…
Michelle Walker is a teacher at Kinma school in Terrey Hills, on Sydney’s northern beaches. With parental consent, she brought a group of 19 students in years 4-6 to the event.
“They felt strongly about it and asked if they could come down today to express how they felt to the government.”
Ms Walker said her students are encouraged to ask critical questions, and they were “upset” by the Prime Minister’s comments condemning the strike…
Jean Hinchliffe, 14, is a student at Fort Street High in Petersham. She said she was striking “to tell our politicians to stop all new coal and gas projects, including Adani’s mine, and take immediate action to move Australia to 100 per cent renewable energy”.
“As a generation, we are sick of those in power failing to stop the climate crisis. We’ve spent our entire lives hearing the dire warnings. Our future is on the line, and sitting around waiting until we can vote and lead the country just isn’t enough.”…
Ella, 10, had a succinct and eloquent response when asked what she aspired to be.
“I just want to be someone with a voice that can change things,” she said.
“I think it’s stupid that no one has done anything. We could already have solar energy and yet we’re still using coal.”…
Nathanael, 10, said he was passionate about “extending the world’s life” and he was optimistic about his early foray into democracy.
“I think it’s going to make a big change,” he said…
Pat Langford, 18, has just finished year 12 at Oakhill College in Castle Hill. He believes the government should block the Adani coal mine and transition to 100 per cent renewable energy…
https://www.smh.com.au/environment/climate-change/striking-students-defy-pm-to-protest-at-inaction-on-climate-change-20181130-p50jc6.html
10
Perhaps these juvi activists could show some courtesy to their parents who are obviously older and wiser.
If they asked their parents to contact their local MP to lodge the complaint on their behalf and then got the parents to stage the demo for them??
Sad to see kids being led into a highly politicized demo which is firmly and solidly based on a lie which nobody has the guts to deny.
KK
82
Pity the reporters didn’t ask how do you know Co2 is bad ? the answers would mirror our regular trolls I’m thinking .
Eh ahh because mommy told me .
53
robert rosicka –
why didn’t the young SMH journo ask how we could go to 100% “renewables” now?
41
MSM wouldn’t even think of asking a question that they themselves couldn’t answer or went against their ideology.
31
Gawd! More lecturing needed
“Morrison LNP Govt committed to Paris and to lecturing other countries on climate change”
https://www.michaelsmithnews.com/2018/11/morrison-lnp-govt-committed-to-paris-and-to-lecturing-other-countries-on-climate-change.html
40
And the Liberals will drop ANOTHER 2 points in the polls !!
Why don’t they understand….
there are NO VOTES TO GAIN by following the far-left idiocy of the climate change agenda.
And MANY votes to keep losing. !!!.
124
Liberals don’t go back on a promise, they simply go back into opposition.
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The new Republic of Australia Flag …
All white.
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Vote 1: None of the above.
10
Today it blew a bit. Not a major storm but certainly windy. The wind started about 11.30 AM & by 12.15 our power was gone. The gold plated network the greenies are blaming for the huge power cost increases can’t be all that gold plated after all.
We advised Energex, & were given the impression that it should be back in an hour or 2. We were about to get out the little 2 KVA generator, but by 2.30 Energex sounded much less confident. Radio reports said 50,000 without power.
So we got out the 10 KVA diesel gen set. It is a lot of work setting it up to supply the house, the granny flat, the drinking water & grey water systems, but was a wise move. After 9 hours, most of our fridge & freezer food would be stuffed. It looks like tomorrow morning if we are lucky.
There will be 10s of thousands of dollars worth going to the tip tomorrow, thanks to greenies who love trees more than their fellow man. I would love to see the greenies who prevent proper power line clearing made to pay for this waste. At least mine won’t be there with the rest.
It proves the lie of gold plated power supply once & for all. This was just a bit of wind, not some major thunder storm. Meanwhile I sure hope though that the poor buggers further north fighting the bush fires didn’t have to contend with it, it would have made fire fighting very dangerous.
It is like being back in the navy. We don’t run this thing connected to the house without someone being “ON WATCH
101
Might be best if you permanently mount it , Labor will win the next election and you may find it will get used a lot more
41
Where are you?
20
North east Victoriastan, have two backup generators and now seriously thinking of getting the sparkie in to wire up a quick connect for those now expected power outs .
20
We did that last summer, well worth it. Can now connect the gen via simple plug in and switch between grid/off/gen. Makes life simpler inside just controlling essential/non essential with switches and breakers.
10
some COP24 virtue-signalling by EU & Germany:
28 Nov: BBC: Climate change: EU aims to be ‘climate neutral’ by 2050
By Matt McGrath
Under the plan, emissions of greenhouse gases after that date would have to be offset by planting trees or by burying the gases underground…
The EU says the move will also cut premature air pollution deaths by 40%…
Is everyone in Europe happy with the new strategy?
Not quite…
What happens next?
The EU says there needs to be a debate among member states about how to achieve this long term goal. The plan is to adopt and submit the ambitious strategy to the UN by early 2020.
However any further development could be held up by the fact that a new EU commission will be selected next year.
https://www.bbc.com/news/science-environment-46360212
29 Nov: Phys.org: German environment minister backs contentious carbon pricing
by Frank Jordans
Svenja Schulze has clashed over the issue of carbon pricing with other members of the German government, who object to such a levy. But with Germany predicted to miss its 2020 target for cutting greenhouse gases, Schulze said Thursday that “new ideas” needed to be discussed.
Germany lags behind European neighbors such as France, Switzerland and Britain in using taxes to steer companies and consumers away from fossil fuel use, partly for fear of alienating the powerful German auto lobby.
“We need incentives for the transport sector, for the building sector, to behave differently,” Schulze told The Associated Press. “And I think CO2 pricing is the right answer for this.”…
German officials had planned to travel to the talks in Katowice, Poland, with a blueprint for phasing out Germany’s use of coal over the coming decades. But an expert committee examining the issue postponed its report until after the meeting, leaving diplomats with little to showcase…
https://phys.org/news/2018-11-german-environment-minister-contentious-carbon.html
20
29 Nov: WorldNuclearNews: Viewpoint: COP24 can help the climate with nuclear policy action
Agneta Rising, director general of World Nuclear Association, urges policy makers gathered at COP24 – the 24th Session of the Conference of the Parties to the United Nations Framework Convention on Climate Change – to recognise the longstanding role of nuclear power in the low-carbon energy mix.
Climate change is the most significant threat to our planet today…
Nuclear power is a low-carbon source of energy. According to the IPCC, the median lifecycle emissions from nuclear are 12g/kWh, as low as wind energy.
Thanks to nuclear, more than 60 Gt of CO2 emissions have been avoided globally since 1970, equivalent to five years’ worth of CO2 emissions from the electricity sector. Nuclear is the second largest source of low-carbon electricity after hydropower.
The future decarbonisation of the electricity sector is central to tackling climate change: global electricity production accounts for 40% of total emissions and coal and gas still dominate generation, producing 63% of the world’s electricity…
The nuclear industry’s Harmony programme has set a goal for nuclear energy to supply 25% of the world’s electricity by 2050, as part of a low-carbon generation mix. This will need the construction of around 1000 GWe of new nuclear capacity…
Nine nuclear plants with a total capacity of 10.4 GWe have started up so far this year, the highest amount since 1990. In addition, four plants in Japan, with a capacity of 4.5 GWe, restarted this year. Next year, 14 new reactors with a total capacity of nearly 15 GWe are due to start operations…
In total, there are 54 reactors under construction worldwide in 18 countries.
These developments are welcome, but much more is needed…
The nuclear industry is committed to this Harmony goal. But we need the international community to ensure the rulebook to be agreed at COP24 encourages and enables all low-carbon technologies to achieve their full potential.
http://world-nuclear-news.org/Articles/Viewpoint-COP-24-help-the-climate-with-nuclear-pol
28 Nov: WorldNuclearNews: Canadian and UK scientists forge closer ties
Canadian Nuclear Laboratories (CNL) and the UK’s Nuclear AMRC have signed a new agreement to develop jointly clean energy and next-generation nuclear technologies.
Mark Lesinski, president and chief executive officer of CNL, and Andrew Storer, chief executive of the Nuclear AMRC, signed the memorandum of understanding (MoU) at the Canada-UK Energy Summit in London, an annual private sector conference that seeks to expand ties between the energy sectors of the two countries…READ ON
http://www.world-nuclear-news.org/Articles/Canadian-and-UK-scientists-forge-closer-ties
20
29 Nov: Financial Times: Macron warns EU-Mercosur deal hangs on Bolsonaro
by Andres Schipani in Buenos Aires
On Thursday in Argentina, Macron said he is unwilling to sign a “broad trade” deal if Brazil’s incoming far-right leader, Jair Bolsonaro, pulls his country out of the Paris climate accord.
“There has been a major political shift in Brazil recently, so Mercosur has to consider the impact of this change,” Mr. Macron said, referring to the election of Mr. Bolsonaro, during a joint press conference with Argentina’s President Mauricio Macri…
“From the French side, I do not agree with signing broad trade agreements with countries that do not respect the Paris agreement,” he added…
“I cannot ask French farmers and workers to change their production habits to lead the ecological transition, then to sign trade agreements with countries that do not do the same. We want balanced agreements,” the French president said…
On Wednesday, Mr. Bolsonaro said he asked the Brazilian government to withdraw an offer to host the United Nations climate conference in 2019. “I recommended my future foreign minister to avoid hosting this event here,” Mr. Bolsonaro said. His future foreign minister has called climate change a Marxist plot…
Mr. Bolsonaro himself has once threatened to withdraw Brazil from the Paris climate agreement, but his current stance on the issue remains unclear…
https://www.ft.com/content/da19561c-f41f-11e8-9623-d7f9881e729f
a bit of fun:
29 Nov: Youtube: 2min35sec: France24: Macron Travels To G20 In Argentina And Is Met By A ‘Yellow Vest’
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PoCvNaR9VKw
30
***message to AP and the rest of the FakeNewsMSM – WWF (and Greenpeace) are unelected and they do not rule the world.
by quoting them endlessly, you only add to the suspicion CAGW is a globalist conspiracy!
29 Nov: Yahoo: Brazil withdraws offer to host UN climate change conference
by DIANE JEANTET, ASSOCIATED PRESS
Bolsonaro told reporters late Wednesday that he had recommended to the incoming foreign minister that Brazil not host the event.
“Environmental politics can’t muddle with Brazil’s development,” Bolsonaro said. “Today, the economy is almost back on track thanks to agribusiness, and they are suffocated by environmental questions.”
The ***World Wildlife Fund in Brazil noted that the decision not to host next year’s conference diverged from the position shared by Brazilian officials before the elections, “demonstrating the strong influence of the transition team.”…
The Brazilian candidacy to host next year’s meeting was to be reviewed during this year’s conference, which begins this weekend in Katowice, Poland.
In a statement, the deputy executive secretary of U.N. Climate Change said the next step would be to see if another country in Latin America could host next year’s conference, since it is the region’s turn to do so. If not, the conference will be held in Bonn, Germany, Ovais Sarmad said…
The foreign ministry confirmed to AP that Brazil’s current environment minister would attend the meeting in Poland and said it had no information indicating Bolsonaro’s transition team would send any representative.
Bolsonaro, who takes office Jan. 1, vowed during the campaign to help mining and agribusiness companies expand their activities in protected areas, including Amazonian forests.
His pick for foreign minister, Ernesto Araujo, has also expressed skepticism that climate change is happening.
“This dogma has served to justify an increase in the (…) power of international institutions over national states and their populations,” the incoming minister wrote in an October blog post.
(ALL BUT ONE OF 15 COMMENTS CAGW SCEPTICAL AT TIME OF POSTING)
https://www.yahoo.com/news/brazil-withdraws-offer-host-un-climate-change-conference-192608697.html
30
29 Nov: US News & World Report: AP: Trump Invites Brazil President-Elect Bolsonaro to Visit US
President Donald Trump is inviting the incoming president of Brazil to visit the United States.
White House national security adviser John Bolton says he extended the invitation to Jair Bolsonaro on Trump’s behalf during a “productive” meeting he had with him in South America ahead of the Group of 20 summit of rich and developing nations in Buenos Aires.
Bolton tweeted Thursday he had met with Bolsonaro, who will take office on Jan. 1. The far-right Bolsonaro has often expressed admiration for Trump…
(Bolton) added that “We look forward to a dynamic partnership w/ Brazil.”…
https://www.usnews.com/news/world/articles/2018-11-29/trump-invites-brazil-president-elect-bolsonaro-to-visit-us
just noting the timeline:
28 Nov: Rio Times: Brazil Withdraws Candidacy to Host UN’s COP-25 in 2019
Stating fiscal and budgetary constraints Brazil’s Itamaraty announced it was withdrawing the country’s candidacy less than fifteen days after the Environment Ministry had confirmed the desire to host the annual climate change conference
By Lise Alves
Less than fifteen days after announcing that it wanted to host the United Nation’s 25th Climate Conference, to be held in 2019, Brazil’s Foreign Service Ministry (better known as Itamaraty) released a statement that it was backing down from the candidacy.
“In view of the current fiscal and budgetary constraints, which are expected to remain in the near future, and the transition process for the newly elected administration, to start on January 1st, 2019, the Brazilian government was forced to withdraw its candidacy to host COP 25,” says the Itamaraty note.
At the beginning of November the Ministry of Environment had announced that the candidacy confirmed Brazil’s leading role in sustainable development issues, especially in relation to climate change, and ‘reflected the consensus of Brazilian society on the importance and urgency of actions that contribute in combating climate change’…
https://riotimesonline.com/brazil-news/rio-politics/brazil-withdraws-candidacy-to-host-uns-cop-25-in-2019/
30
“Rio Times: Brazil Withdraws Candidacy to Host UN’s COP-25 in 2019”, interesting since Rio hosted the Earth Summit 1992, where the official ‘agenda’ was setup.
20
Cue Zulu,Jack Hawkins, You are all going to die.
Youtube.
30
China specialists who long supported engagement are now warning of Beijing’s attempt to influence American society
Washington Post – 29 Nov 2018
Engagement with China is failing. Time for ‘constructive vigilance’
Washington Post – 29 Nov 2018
China’s ominous plan to ‘penetrate and sway the United States
Washington Post – 29 Nov 2018
Scholars warn of Chinese influence operations in US
Wall Street Journal – 28 Nov 2018
Group proposes limiting visas for Chinese media and scholars unless Americans can operate more freely in China
by Kate O’Keefffe
WASHINGTON—An influential group of China experts called for Americans to acknowledge what it described as a growing threat of Beijing-sponsored influence operations in the U.S. The cohort also proposed restricting visas for Chinese media and scholars unless their American counterparts are allowed to operate more freely in China.
In a new report, 32 longtime China watchers warned that the Chinese Communist Party’s efforts to influence U.S. universities, media, think tanks and companies…
29 Nov: NPR Morning Edition: Beijing Is Pushing Hard To Influence U.S. Views Of China, Report Says
by Rob Schmitz
Beijing is mounting an aggressive influence campaign targeting multiple levels of American society, according to a report published Thursday that is written by some of the top China experts in the U.S.
The working group that compiled the report includes scholars who for decades have agreed that as long as the U.S. continued to engage the People’s Republic of China, the paths of both countries would eventually converge and that when they did, China’s political system would become more transparent and its society more open.
However, as China’s economy climbed to unprecedented heights, President Xi Jinping has consolidated power, and in the eyes of the report’s authors, the idea of convergence has been put to rest.
As Xi took office in 2013, China “began to take a very different path forward,” says Orville Schell, a China scholar who co-chairs the working group that produced the 200-page report, “Chinese Influence and American Interests.” (LINK)…
The report is sponsored by Stanford University’s Hoover Institution, the Annenberg Foundation Trust at Sunnylands and the Center on U.S.-China Relations at the Asia Society in New York, which Schell directs…
One section of the report examines the large amounts of money China’s government and Chinese individuals who are loyal to the Communist Party are investing into U.S. universities…
“[Very] often, that money will come not with any explicit prohibitions, but with implicit ones,” says Schell.
“[If] you want to get more (money), don’t say this, don’t say that. In other words,” he says. As a result, China aims for “modulating and controlling what people say about it and how they view it.”
China’s government has, with the help of dozens of U.S. universities, established 110 Confucius Institutes on campuses throughout the United States. The institutes are forced to use Communist Party-approved materials “that promote PRC Chinese viewpoints, terminology and simplified characters; the avoidance of discussion on controversial topics such as Tibet, Tiananmen, Xinjiang, the Falun Gong, and human rights in American classrooms and programs,” the report says.
Several U.S. universities, such as the University of Chicago and the Texas A&M system, have had second thoughts about the Confucius Institute and have closed their branches. The report suggests that U.S. institutions rewrite their contracts with their Chinese government partner by eliminating a clause that stipulates Confucius Institutes must operate according to China’s laws…
Another section examines how Hollywood has come under the influence of Chinese investment and, as a result, now routinely makes films that portray China’s government in a favorable light.
Whereas in 1997, films such as Red Corner, Seven Years in Tibet, and Kundun addressed topics the Chinese government deemed sensitive, now Hollywood studios are teaming up with Chinese partners to make films such as The Martian, a blockbuster hit backed by Chinese money in which the Chinese government saves the American protagonists.
“The rush of Chinese investment into the American film industry,” the report concludes, “has raised legitimate concerns bout the industry’s outright loss of independence.”…
It also urges Americans to act with integrity when Chinese state-sponsored actors try to coerce them or manipulate America’s core principles. “Openness and freedom are fundamental elements of American democracy and intrinsic strengths of the United States and its way of life,” the report concludes. “These values must be protected against corrosive actions by China and other countries.”
https://www.npr.org/2018/11/29/671796941/beijing-is-pushing-hard-to-influence-u-s-views-of-china-report-says
20
the main WaPo article is carried by Straits Times…read all:
29 Nov: Straits Times: WASHINGTON POST: China specialists now warning of Beijing’s efforts to influence American society
Most noteworthy is the roster of contributors to the report, many of whom have been leading advocates of engagement. It includes former US ambassador to China Winston Lord, who accompanied Dr Henry Kissinger on his secret 1971 trip to Beijing that paved the way for China’s opening to the West; activist and journalist Orville Schell, who has worked on US-China relations over the past half-century; and senior director for Asia Evan Medeiros at the National Security Council in the Obama administration.
“It’s not as though this is a bunch of hostile, anti-Chinese people,” Mr Lord said. “Yet all of us have become more pessimistic about the trends and feel that we’re at a crossroads in the relationship.”
The turnabout is profound, some working-group members said…
“It speaks to the disillusionment of an entire generation of China specialists who thought they were helping China emerge onto the world stage only to discover that the project had gone badly awry,” said contributor James Mulvenon, an expert on Chinese economic espionage and general manager at the defence contractor SOS International…
The sharper tone from US specialists comes as the Trump administration has recast China as one of two main strategic threats – the other being Russia. It has made countering Chinese military and economic aggression a top priority…
The report echoes themes that Vice-President Mike Pence raised in an October speech. “Beijing is employing a whole-of-government approach, using political, economic and military tools, as well as propaganda, to advance its influence and benefit its interests in the United States,” Mr Pence said…
Mr Pence and the working group noted the Chinese Communist Party’s efforts to foster censorship in academia. Both referred to the Chinese Students and Scholars Association, which operates on American campuses. Besides organising cultural events, the group alerts Chinese diplomats when Chinese students stray from the Communist Party line and when there are lectures or programmes on campus it deems offensive…
https://www.straitstimes.com/world/united-states/china-specialists-now-warning-of-beijings-efforts-to-influence-american-society
the report, linked in the NPR article above, was mentioned on Laura Ingraham’s Fox show today. she interviewed Michael Pillsbury, American Director of the Center on Chinese Strategy, Hudson Institute, who briefed Trump on meeting with Xi before he left for G20.
Pillsbury mentioned the report is more remarkable before it’s basically leftists who have written it and they’ve been wrong for 40 years. Pillsbury also said Trump didn’t need the briefing because he laid out his position on China in a book years ago.
Wikipedia: Pillsbury is the author of three books on China. The most recent one, The Hundred-Year Marathon, is an international bestseller and was number one on the Washington Post list…
On September 26, 2018 U.S. President Donald Trump described Michael Pillsbury as “the leading authority on China.”…
Amazon: Hundred-Year Marathon by Michael Pillsbury
https://www.amazon.com.au/Hundred-Year-Marathon-Michael-Pillsbury/dp/125008134
10
Article over on WUWT about the professional Engineers body in Scotland coming out about the potential collapse of their grid with the radical and piecemeal implementation of intermittents. Managing black starts gets mentioned a couple of times.
40
yarpos –
see comments #7 and #8 above.
10
Kroger has finally quit (as he should) the Victoriastan Libs, the campaign he ran was pathetic at best .
80
Are there any actual Liberals (in the Australian sense) left in Victoria ??
63
The current so-called Liberal Party in Victoria seems to be mainly soft green leftist twits. !
93
“Michael Kroger’s statement on his resignation as President of the Victorian Liberal Party”
https://www.michaelsmithnews.com/2018/11/michael-krogers-statement-on-his-resignation-as-president-of-the-victorian-liberal-party.html
I guess “for better or for worse” depends on this replacement
30
Micheal Kroger is cashing in on Victoria’s Chinese Belt and Road deal big time, his interests in the state election was somewhat motivated.
20
Congratulations to everyone are in order thanks for the slight increase in life giving Co2 in Oz , but we need to do better please the plants are starving so give till it hurts and the heads of watermelons explode .
https://www.abc.net.au/news/science/2018-11-30/greenhouse-gas-emissions-up-again-quarterly-update/10570590
52
I’m more concerned about the cooling that’s happening in many areas. If the trend continues there will be massive food shortages and will make even the exaggerated claims by the warmists pale into insignificance.
Here’s some interesting research by Professor Valentina Zharkova: The Solar Magnet Field and the Terrestrial Climate
Her work on climate and the solar magnetic field hypothesis revealed four pairs of dynamo waves, the pair with the highest eigenvalues are called principal components (PCs). These PCs are produced by magnetic dipoles in inner and outer layers of the sun. The second pair of waves is assumed produced by quadruple magnetic sources for example. These PC waves are closely related to the average sunspot number index. Her prediction is cooling over the next 10 or so years.
40
PS, check this https://landscheidt.wordpress.com/
A bit dtaed but its very intersting I think Landssheidt was onto it.
Here
https://landscheidt.wordpress.com/2008/11/06/are-neptune-and-uranus-the-major-players-in-solar-grand-minima/
Here, Scafetta
https://landscheidt.wordpress.com/2011/11/10/scafettas-new-paper-linking-mid-latitude-aurora-to-the-60-year-temperature-cycle/
”
The abstract follows:
Herein we show that the historical records of mid-latitude auroras from 1700
to 1966 present oscillations with periods of about 9, 10–11, 20–21, 30 and
60 years. The same frequencies are found in proxy and instrumental global
surface temperature records since 1650 and 1850, respectively, and in
several planetary and solar records. We argue that the aurora records reveal
a physical link between climate change and astronomical oscillations. Likely
in addition to a Soli-Lunar tidal effect, there exists a planetary
modulation of the heliosphere, of the cosmic ray flux reaching the Earth
and/or of the electric properties of the ionosphere. The latter, in turn,
has the potentiality of modulating the global cloud cover that ultimately
drives the climate oscillations through albedo oscillations. In particular,
a quasi-60-year large cycle is quite evident since 1650 in all climate and
astronomical records herein studied, …”
10
Some dude at the conference Jo was at talked about this in detail ,was interesting I thought .
20
The warmists have a problem..RECORD cold in the NH! In Nth America cold records are falling like a house of cards. Totally ignored here by the alarmist MSM. Extreme conditions are more likely in a cooling system, due to a grand solar minimum, as the jet streams move more erratically.
30
No . . . everything’s ok. The warming is causing the cooling . . . . .
30
That reminds me of the statistician, one foot in a bucket of ice, the other in a hot frying pan…on average he was pretty good!
20
This article is in today’s Australian Mining Newsletter – link – https://www.australianmining.com.au/news/adani-declares-carmichael-mine-100-financed/
Adani declares Carmichael project 100% financed
November 29, 2018News Ben Creagh
India’s Adani Group plans to fund the entire Carmichael coal mine and rail project in the Galilee Basin in Queensland itself, Adani Mining chief executive officer Lucas Dow has revealed.
Dow, speaking at a Bowen Basin Mining Club event in Mackay, said the Adani Group decision followed changes to simplify construction and reduce the initial capital requirements for the Carmichael project.
Construction and operation of the mine would begin in the next few weeks, he added. The updated plan is expected to involve an initial investment of $2 billion on a smaller than previously planned mine, with annual production of 10–15 million tonnes of thermal coal.
There’s mud in your eye, infantile Australian financiers!
50
ABC were saying that peak coal is over and everyone is building new renewables .
00
Further in The Australian is that 4 or 5 other projects are about to start in the same area.
Stiil our emissions won’t suffer, all that coal will be burnt in India, China, Vietnam etc. so doesn’t count.
40
29 Nov: Reuters: Poland plans new coal mine as climate talks loom
Poland will start investing in a new coal mine next year in the south of the country, Deputy Energy Minister Grzegorz Tobiszowski said on Thursday, a few days before U.N. climate talks start there in one of the country’s most polluted cities.
“We’re planning an investment next year in building a new coal mine in Silesia, as this could make sense,” Tobiszowski told a press conference. He declined to give any further details.
“Poland needs coal and either this will be our coal or from outside,” Tobiszowski also said, referring to Poland’s increased coal imports, mostly from Russia as domestic production has fallen…
“I don’t see that in 2050 there will be no coal-fueled power plants in Poland. The life span of power plants will not end in 2050,” Energy Minister Krzysztof Tchorzewski told the same press conference…
Poland’s ruling Law and Justice (PiS) party, which won the 2015 election partly on a promise to support coal production, argues Poland cannot afford a sudden U-turn and needs the transition to greener energy to be gradual…
On Thursday Greenpeace threatened to sue PGE unless it phases out coal by 2030…
PGE declined to comment.
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-poland-energy-coal/poland-plans-new-coal-mine-as-climate-talks-loom-idUSKCN1NY1MT?utm_campaign=Carbon%20Brief%20Daily%20Briefing&utm_medium=email&utm_source=Revue%20newsletter
Reuters: we don’t care what Greenpeace thinks.
30 Nov: Reuters: Bulgarian miners march to protect coal production
Miners and workers at Bulgaria’s largest coal-fired power plant Maritsa East 2 marched in Sofia on Thursday to protect their jobs and to urge the government to support coal-fired energy production in the Balkan country.
More than 1,000 (“HUNDREDS” SAYS AP; 2,000 says BALKANINSIGHT) people urged the government to guarantee it would not shut mines and power plants at Maritsa East lignite coal complex in southern Bulgaria, despite a European Union push to decarbonise the bloc’s economy by 2050.
“It looks like they may start closing units one by one, because of the convention that forces us to cut the harmful emissions,” said Katia Vassileva, 45, a worker at Maritsa East 2, adding that Bulgaria was having to pay a heavy price to buy the carbon permits to make up for emissions from the plant.
A spike in the price of European carbon permits has widened financial losses of the state-owned 1,620 megawatt Maritsa East 2, increasing workers’ fears of eventual closure.
They say any move to shut the plant could cause power shortages or a spike in power prices. Coal-fired plants produce more than 40 percent of Bulgaria’s electricity. The government has said it would work to ensure they continued to operate…
Bulgaria’s two major trade unions say the European Commission has set a pace for creating a greener economy that was too fast and too costly for the Balkan country.
“We need to find a solution, because it is not fair for the poorer countries,” said Vladimir Topalov, head of the miners federation at Podkrepa trade unions…
Trade unions say the mine complex provides livelihoods for more than 100,000 people in the European Union’s poorest member…
“Bulgaria cannot allow itself to lose competitiveness in the energy sector and will work to defend the social right of the people working in it,” President Rumen Radev, who will present Bulgaria’s position at Katowice, wrote in his Facebook account…
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-bulgaria-coal-protests/bulgarian-miners-march-to-protect-coal-production-idUSKCN1NY1TN
30
So now not only the UK but Italy, Greece, Poland, the Czech Rep., Austria and Greece but also Bulgaria want out of the EU policy.
50
If only the Australian Union movement had the slightest interest in Australian workers and families welfare…
50
links to the emails:
29 Nov: DeSmogUK: Climate Scientist Michael Mann Releases Emails Ahead of University of Arizona Response to E&E Legal
By Michael Mann
Nearly a decade ago, in late 2009, a server at the University of East Anglia was hacked and thousands of emails from the university’s Climatic Research Unit were subsequently released in the run-up to the Copenhagen climate talks. Within these thousands of emails, climate change deniers attempted to cherry-pick a few sentences to falsely suggest scientific malfeasance. This so-called “Climategate” incident managed to briefly cast doubt on the public’s acceptance of the scientific realities of climate change. But ultimately, numerous investigations found there was no wrongdoing, and the media storm was found to only have a fleeting public impact…
In increasingly desperate attempts to recreate this short-lived machination, there have since been repeated efforts to obtain my and other climate scientists’ emails via fishing expeditions through misuse of the legal system. Led by David Schnare, one coal-funded group masquerading as a think tank — which currently goes by the name of Energy & Environment Legal Institute (E&E Legal) — brought a lawsuit in Virginia seeking to obtain virtually every email I had ever sent or received during the six years I was a professor at the University of Virginia.
The case was struck down by the Virginia Supreme Court, but E&E Legal has continued to essentially relitigate the matter in friendlier forums. E&E Legal targeted two other prominent climate scientists at the University of Arizona, Jonathan Overpeck and Malcolm Hughes (the latter being one of my longtime co-authors), seeking a total of 13 years of emails from them, including correspondence with or about me or my research.
I have fought repeatedly to protect myself and other researchers, and our emails, from groups like E&E Legal who have no interest whatsoever in legitimate scientific discourse but instead seek to misrepresent and malign scientists in an effort to undermine the public’s faith in climate science.
E&E Legal will no doubt post the Arizona emails once they receive them, distributing them online with a series of misleading and disingenuous mischaracterizations, choosing a few phrases here and there to misrepresent me and other scientists and to falsely accuse us of all manner of misdeeds.
Consequently, I am sharing my emails here (LINK)(enter “mail_guest” for both username and password). Moreover, a group of independent climate science experts have gone through the emails providing context for interpreting the exchanges and discussions contained within.
Of course, I wish I did not need to do this.
But since these emails will be handed over any day now to David Schnare, it is our hope to use this exercise instead as a teaching moment and an opportunity to further public appreciation and understanding of science, by
(a) using these emails to show how scientists are making an honest and diligent effort to understand the science underlying Earth’s climate system,
(b) showing how scientists are engaged in the good-faith give-and-take that is central to the scientific enterprise, which includes appropriate skepticism and critical assessment not only of other scientists’ work but our own, as evident through internal deliberations between the scientists, and
(c) demonstrating the understandable frustration that scientists have with those who intentionally misrepresent them and their research for the purpose of advancing an ideological agenda.
https://www.desmogblog.com/2018/11/29/michael-mann-statement-arizona-emails-released-eeli?utm_campaign=Carbon%20Brief%20Daily%20Briefing&utm_medium=email&utm_source=Revue%20newsletter
20
Not sure all emails will be there and very noticeable is the comment about context , so if anything is found it’s been taken out of context.
11
no surprise:
28 Nov: Washington Times: Obama official helped prepare dire National Climate Assessment
By Valerie Richardson
A former Obama administration official with ties to a liberal advocacy group funded by Democratic megadonors George Soros and Tom Steyer helped prepare the Fourth National Climate Assessment, whose dire predictions have since been attacked as overblown.
Andrew Light, who worked on the 2015 Paris accord negotiations as a senior adviser to the U.S. Special Envoy on Climate Change under Secretary of State John F. Kerry, served as a review editor for the assessment, overseeing the pivotal final chapter that concluded under a worst-case scenario that global warming could wipe out as much as 10 percent of the U.S. economy by 2100.
Now a senior fellow at the World Resources Institute, Mr. Light also spent five years as senior fellow and director of international climate policy at the Center for American Progress, which was founded and now led by longtime Democratic insider John Podesta. The center is also financed by liberal billionaires such as Mr. Soros and Mr. Steyer.
The involvement of Mr. Light and other figures known for their climate change advocacy has raised questions about the credibility of the report, which has been widely depicted as a politically neutral, scientific document prepared by disinterested specialists from 13 federal agencies.
Roger A. Pielke Jr., University of Colorado Boulder environmental studies professor, criticized the decision to bring in Mr. Light, as well as the report’s reliance for the 10 percent figure on a 2017 study funded in part by Mr. Steyer’s Next Generation and Bloomberg Philanthropies.
“The question remains, whose idea was it to have John Podesta’s climate adviser and Obama political appointee be in charge of the review of the most important chapter, which leans heavily on Tom Steyer research?” Mr. Pielke said in an email…
Mr. Light has no formal academic scientific credentials — he earned his Ph.D. in philosophy — but noted that he completed a three-year postdoctoral research fellowship in environmental risk assessment.
“I believe I was selected as a Review Editor because for over fifteen years I have been working on domestic and international environmental, climate, and energy policy,” he said. “I have authored or co-authored over a dozen policy reports in this area, participated and led several important dialogues and projects in this field, and made substantial contributions to climate and energy agreements.”
Mr. Light denied being in charge of the chapter, saying it would be “inaccurate to say that I was responsible for any of the content.”
He made the media rounds after the report was released, with both CBS News and Bloomberg News calling him the report’s “co-author,” which he said was incorrect.
The report lists more than 200 authors and contributors, most of them federal employees but also dozens from universities, advocacy groups, foundations, think tanks and consulting firms specializing in advising governments and businesses on climate change adaptation and resilience.
The advocacy groups include the Union of Concerned Scientists, National Wildlife Federation, Nature Conservancy, Ocean Conservancy, and Arctic Institute. Others involved with the report are affiliated with the Brookings Institution, the Paulson Institute, and the Rand Corp., as well as the Kresge and Packard foundations.
Absent were prominent scientists affiliated with top research universities who have challenged catastrophic climate scenarios, such as John Christy, Judith Curry, William Happer, Richard Lindzen, Roger A. Pielke Sr. and Roy Spencer.
Mr. Light said review editors were selected by the National Climate Assessment federal steering committee from candidates nominated by others or themselves.
“Anyone could be nominated for the role of Review Editor or they could self-nominate,” he said…
Skeptics, meanwhile, have blasted the report as “tripe” (Greenpeace co-founder Patrick Moore), a “400-page pile of crap” (Heartland Institute’s John Dunn), “irrelevant” (JunkScience’s Steven J. Milloy), and “baseless scaremongering” (Watts Up With That’s Eric Worrall).
“The National Climate Assessment report reads like a press release from environmental pressure groups — because it is,” said Marc Morano, author of “The Politically Incorrect Guide to Climate Change.”
He described two of the authors — Texas Tech professor Katharine Hayhoe and Donald J. Wuebbles of the University of Illinois — as “longtime Union of Concerned Scientist activists.”…
“These are not ‘Trump’s own scientists’ as the media likes to claim,” Mr. Morano said. “The key authors are in fact left-wing environmental activists with the Union of Concerned Scientists, Center for American Progress, and the Obama Administration. And they cited outlier studies funded by Steyer and [Michael] Bloomberg.”…
Mr. Pielke, who has described climate change as “real” and Mr. Trump as “wrong” on the issue, said the estimate was not only “implausible,” but also was contradicted elsewhere in the assessment.
“The report obviously fell short in its quality control,” Mr. Pielke said. “Why this happened should be explored, but clearly it would have benefited from expanding its leadership beyond the ‘climate club.’”
https://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2018/nov/28/andrew-light-obama-official-helped-prepare-dire-na/
10
28 Nov: Daily Caller: James Taylor: OPINION: Obama-Era Holdovers Issue Fake News Climate Report
(James Taylor is senior fellow for environment and climate policy at The Heartland Institute)
Obama-era deep-state bureaucrats have issued a dubious climate report that warns of imminent devastation from global warming. The report presents discredited assertions from environmental activist groups as “evidence” to support its findings, as well as predictions of temperature change and extreme weather events that have already been contradicted by real-world data…
The USGCRP’s steering committee and authors are composed almost entirely of Obama-era deep-state holdovers. The two lead authors for the report — prominent, controversial global warming activists Don Wuebbles and Katherine Hayhoe — were put in place by the Obama administration.
Ignoring embarrassing mistakes made by the United Nations Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change (IPCC), the USGCRP decided to rely on non-peer reviewed propaganda ‘grey papers’ published by leftist climate alarmists.
The USGCRP explains its report is “complemented by other sources (such as gray literature) where appropriate.” The IPCC has a history of making sensational assertions — that it since had to explain, revise, and retract — based on grey papers.
The USGCRP has also followed the United Nations’ lead of relying on environmental activist groups and environmental activist group staffers to justify its outlandish assertions…
Pointing out a preposterous claim in the report that global warming will increase global temperatures by 14 degrees Fahrenheit and reduce U.S. gross domestic product by 10 percent, climate scientist Roger Pielke observed, “Shouldn’t such an outlandish, outlier conclusion been caught in the review process? Not a good look that sole review editor for this chapter is an alum of the Center for American Progress … which is funded by Tom Steyer.”
“By presenting cherrypicked science, at odds w/ NCA Vol,1 & IPCC AR5, the authors of NCA Vol.2 have given a big fat gift to anyone who wants to dismiss climate science and policy,” Pielke added…
The report is saturated with discredited fake news assertions on climate science and economics. For example…READ ON
https://dailycaller.com/2018/11/28/obama-fake-climate/
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Pat
I know it is inconvenient to look at links that go to charts but go back to comment #13 and you see just how outrageous our NCA is. I think the authors should be humiliated for issuing such a piece of crap.
I call it extreme squared.
41
let’s face it…it’s over:
29 Nov: Financial Times: New technologies, not Paris climate agreement, will do the job
A credible climate action plan needs the truth, not spin, about costs
by Dieter Helm
(Dieter Helm is Professor of Economic Policy at the University of Oxford and author of Burn Out: The End Game for Fossil Fuels, published by Yale University Press)
Since climate change began to gain political traction in 1990, very little has been achieved. The concentration of carbon in the atmosphere has kept going up.
Lots of money has been spent, vested interests have profited, but the reality is that we remain well on course for exceeding 2C warming. Levels of carbon dioxide in the atmosphere have already breached 400 parts per million and we are on our way to 500…
It’s time for a rethink. The claim that global decarbonisation can be done at little or no cost is nonsense. On the contrary, switching from an overwhelmingly carbon to a non-carbon-based economy in the space of just two or three decades is really (REALLY REALLY) expensive…
The political fact is that, while voters tell us they care about the climate, their concern fades quickly when they are told it is going to increase their electricity bills…
In France, the protests about the rising cost of diesel, driven by the carbon tax, dwarf those by climate change activists. There is no government in any of the major emitters — pre-eminently China, but also India, Africa and the US — that could maintain popular support on the basis of a carbon tax necessary to meet the 1.5C target — and that is the cheapest way of achieving it…
In China, the world’s biggest polluter, emissions rose sharply again in 2017. It is closing in on 1,000 gigawatts of coal-fired electricity generation. Another 250GW is being added and China is financing over 200 coal plants abroad…
Add in what is going on in India and Africa, and it is plain to see where we are heading. No number of wind farms in the North Sea can offset this. The Europeans are squeezing carbon production at home but not necessarily cutting their carbon footprint, if carbon consumption goes up from imported goods instead…
***The real challenge is to persuade the public that they should take a hit now — and hence spend less to make room for investment — for a benefit after 2050…
Crucial world leaders — including presidents Donald Trump of the US, Vladimir Putin of Russia, Xi Jinping of China, and president-elect Jair Bolsonaro of Brazil — are not sympathetic to multilateral policies driven by the UN…
https://www.ft.com/content/8ffe8e52-e421-11e8-a8a0-99b2e340ffeb
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pat:
I seem to remember somebody called Lomborg advocating more research 20 years ago and getting abused and ignored.
30
Yes we need to spend much more to tackle climate change – perhaps trillions more. Meanwhile the real problems of today are being ignored. There are lies, damned lies, statistics and then there are political CAGW believers. George Orwell if alive today would have said something along the lines “I told you so”.
40
For a measly million Swiss Francs I will send my V8 to the crusher. Please no thanks or adulation needed, always ready to take one for the team.
10
29 Nov: Daily Caller: Peter Hasson: EXCLUSIVE: Google Employees Debated Burying Conservative Media In Search
•Google employees debated whether to bury The Daily Caller and other conservative media outlets in the company’s search function as a response to President Donald Trump’s election
•“Let’s make sure that we reverse things in four years,” one engineer wrote in a thread that included a Google vice president
•Google employees similarly sought to manipulate search results to combat Trump’s travel ban
The Daily Caller and Breitbart were specifically singled out as outlets to potentially bury, the communications reveal.
Trump’s election in 2016 shocked many Google employees, who had been counting on Democratic nominee Hillary Clinton to win…READ ALL
https://dailycaller.com/2018/11/29/google-censorship-conservative-media/
50
29 Nov: Gateway Pundit: Thanks to President Trump – After a Decade Absence – The US is Once Again the World’s Most Competitive Economy!
by Joe Hoft
The US is great again! Trump economy making the US the most competitive economy on the planet!
The Trump economic policies are working (LINK) –
(excerpt Marketwatch) After a decadelong absence, the U.S. has regained the distinction of most competitive country in the world, according to the World Economic Forum. In fact, only Japan made a bigger improvement of all 140 countries in the survey…READ ON
https://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2018/11/thanks-to-president-trump-after-a-decade-absence-us-the-worlds-most-competitive-economy/
30
30 Nov: Yahoo7 News: Two men charged with arson amid raging Queensland fires
Two men have been arrested accused of deliberately lighting fires near Rockhampton, while hundreds of firefighters put their lives on the line to fight the flames.
Locals spotted one man acting suspiciously at Bouldercombe and helped police make an arrest.
The alleged arsonist was captured and taken to Rockhampton hospital, suffering burns to his hands.
The 27-year-old is the second man this week to be arrested for allegedly starting a fire in the region.
https://au.news.yahoo.com/two-men-charged-arson-amid-raging-queensland-fires-113624814.html
30
A disease sweeping through Chinese hog herds is helping negate the effects of the trade war for American farmers, with U.S. pork sales to the Asian nation back to levels before tariffs were introduced.
“This is a game changer,” said Dennis Smith, a senior account executive at Archer Financial Services Inc. “
It gives confirmation that the disease is far worse than what we’ve been told.”
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2018-11-29/u-s-reports-pork-exports-to-china-amid-swine-fever-trade-war
40
PS: from comments-
“African Swine Fever is not a public health risk – the virus does not replicate in humans.
It’s a financial disaster for the hog farmers. There is no vaccine, so the only response is wholesale slaughter and sanitation.”
20
Re levelised energy costs
“This is the point: the federal government produces figures on the “levelized cost of energy,” comparing coal, natural gas, nuclear, wind, solar and so on. Most people naively assume that the government’s numbers are authoritative. In fact, as usual when it comes to energy, the government’s thumb is firmly on the scale in favor of crony energy that funds politicians…”
https://www.powerlineblog.com/archives/2018/11/exposed-a-key-element-of-the-wind-energy-fraud.php
Via a thread at SDA
40
Climate change responsible for Queensland fires !
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2018-12-01/why-qld-bushfires-have-been-described-as-abnormal-unprecedented/10571122
We’re all doomed to burn in hell for our Co2 sins .
31
What is interesting is how the fires start in the first place (not after fires starting from embers spreading). Even 100C cant start a fire it needs ignition temp.
Lightning? Human?
30
Qld and often W.A. its the dry thunderstorm thing.
11
Did they have dry thunderstorms at the time the fires started?
20
did see some reports of that.
20
Wind blown tree branches onto power lines..
Sunshine onto disgarded glass bottles in dry grass…
Kids cannot resist playing with matches and lighters
Etc. etc.
20
More tall tales from our socialist broadcaster .
Things that stand out are the green grass in background and foreground as he checks the rain gauge and whatever you do don’t zoom in on his tally for November rainfall .
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2018-12-01/tasmanian-farmers-call-for-state-to-be-drought-declared/10572200
11
WUWT now has the Michael Mann emails story:
30 Nov: WUWT: Anthony Watts: #Climategate continues – Mann tries to get ahead of his legal problem, releases his own version of emails
https://wattsupwiththat.com/2018/11/30/climategate-continues-mann-tries-to-get-ahead-of-his-legal-problem-releases-his-own-version-of-emails/
30
France joins communist China and UN socialist Guterres to make a statement!
30 Nov: ClimateChangeNews: France and China declare joint climate commitment at G20
The major economies promised to work together to set robust rules for the Paris Agreement sending a political boost ahead of crucial UN talks next week
By Megan Darby; Additional reporting from Karl Mathiesen
In a statement together with UN secretary-general Antonio Guterres, foreign ministers of the two countries promised to work together to put the international climate pact into action.
It struck a markedly greener tone than the ambivalent draft G20 declaration circulated ahead of the meeting. Climate Home News understands that text is still open for negotiation as talks between the 20 major economies enter their final day.
Ministers Jean-Yves Le Drian and Wang Yi said they hoped the G20 summit would “give a political impetus to the success of Cop24”, the UN climate negotiations starting in Katowice, Poland on Sunday…
Citing the stark message of the recent Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change report, it said “there are only a few years left, far less than a generation, to make the transition towards a sustainable and ecological civilization a reality”
A summit to be hosted by Guterres at the UN’s New York headquarters next September will be “a defining moment to accelerate action,” they added.
At a G20 meeting dominated by trade tension between China and the US, Beijing was using climate change to build bridges with other global powers, said Li Shuo, a policy analyst from Greenpeace East Asia.
***“From the Chinese perspective, it highlights continued high-level political interest to leverage the climate and broader environmental agenda for geopolitical gain,” he said.
India’s prime minister Narendra Modi also discussed climate change with Guterres in Buenos Aires, according to a tweet from his account, including through his pet project the International Solar Alliance..
http://www.climatechangenews.com/2018/11/30/france-china-declare-joint-climate-commitment-g20/
French-language:
AgenceNewsPress: Déclaration de presse sur le changement climatique, à l’issue de la rencontre entre Jean-Yves Le Drian, Wang Yi et António Guterres
Jean-Yves LE DRIAN Ministère de l’Europe et des Affaires étrangères-30/11/2018 17:35:00
http://www.newspress.fr/Communique_FR_309974_7073.aspx
10
30 Nov: WashingtonTimes: China, France take on U.S. stance over climate at summit
By Frederic Puglie – Special to The Washington Times
The announcement, in line with the climate “battle” French President Emmanuel Macron said he was waging earlier this year, is seen as a broadside to Mr. Trump, who dubbed the Paris deal “terrible” and “a disaster” before he announced plans to withdraw from the global compact…
While he welcomed the Franco-Chinese effort, Argentine Environment Secretary Sergio Bergman told The Washington Times that bringing the United States back into the fold would be key — and that required “respecting” Mr. Trump’s views.
“Building consensus doesn’t mean that nobody thinks differently,” he said. “What matters is that, at the end of the day, we proceed with a common agenda.”
https://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2018/nov/30/china-france-take-us-stance-over-climate-summit/
1 Dec: Xinhua: China urges responsibility, action, coordination in tackling climate change
China, together with France and the UN, will strive for comprehensive and balanced outcomes from the COP24 and make greater contributions to a clean, beautiful world as well as a community of shared future, Wang said.
While reiterating China’s pursuit of green, low-carbon and sustainable development, he urged all parties to fulfill their commitments and step up their efforts against global warming.
Le Drian, for his part, said France would like to work with China more on climate change, which shall include three-party cooperation to help other developing countries go green and low-carbon.
During the meeting, Guterres expressed gratitude to China for its vital leadership on climate change, as well as to both China and France for their leading roles in the face of this global challenge.
http://www.xinhuanet.com/english/2018-12/01/c_137643217.htm
10
google translation:
30 Nov: DiarioDoCentroDoMundo: Bolsonaro responds to Macron and says he will not make agreements that would harm agribusiness
by Agência Brasil
The president-elect, Jair Bolsonaro, said today (30) that he does not intend to take on environmental commitments that impact Brazilian agribusiness.
The response was a reaction to statements by French President Emmanuel Macron that has conditioned the progress of negotiations between the European Union and Mercosur on the position of the elected government on the Paris Climate Agreement.
“Macron is defending France. This Mercosur agreement with the European Union affects the interests of France, a country also focused on agribusiness. From the moment they want to decrease the amount of our exportable, these commodities, logically they can not count on our support. But it is not a definite no, we will negotiate, “said Bolsonaro, after attending the graduation ceremony of Air Force sergeants in Guaratinguetá, in the interior of São Paulo…
On Twitter, Bolsonaro had already posted a message stating that “it is out of the question” that the country automatically subjects itself to the interests of other nations. “Automatically subjecting our territory, laws, and sovereignty to placements of other nations is out of the question. It is legitimate for countries in the world to defend their interests and we will be willing to dialogue always, but we will defend the interests of Brazil and Brazilians, “he said in a message on the social network.
https://www.diariodocentrodomundo.com.br/essencial/bolsonaro-responde-a-macron-e-diz-que-nao-fara-acordos-que-prejudiquem-agronegocio/
10
behind paywall:
French government’s bid to negotiate with ‘yellow vests’ ends in farce
The Local France-8 hours ago
but it appears to be this AFP piece:
30 Nov: GulfTimes: AFP: French Govt fails to negotiate with ‘yellow vest’ movement
Attempts by the French government to negotiate with the “yellow vest” movement responsible for weeks of protests over taxes and the high cost of living turned into a fiasco yesterday after just two representatives turned up for a meeting with the prime minister and one immediately walked out.
The failed talks came on the eve of a planned rally in Paris of thousands of demonstrators, one week after a violent protest left the Champs-Elysees in shambles.
Prime Minister Edouard Philippe had invited eight representatives of the protesters…for the talks in a bid to take heat out of a revolt that has galvanised opposition to President Emmanuel Macron’s liberal economic policies.
However, only two turned up for the talks at the prime minister’s office, with one walking out after being told that he could not invite TV cameras in to broadcast the encounter live to the nation.
Asked later by reporters what his demands were, Jason Herbert said: “We want our dignity back and we want to be able to live from our work, which is absolutely not the case today.”
Herbert said the two representatives who had turned up for the meeting had received “physical and verbal threats” from other protesters, some of whom are opposed in principle to having appointed leaders.
Emerging from an hour of talks with the second representative, Philippe said the pair mainly discussed spending power and that his door “will always remain open” for dialogue.
One of the difficulties faced by the government in seeking to talk to protesters is that the mainly-spontaneous grassroots movement, organised through social media, has steadfastly refused to align with any political party or trade union.
Macron has refused to back down on his anti-pollution taxes, part of his effort to green the economy.
Speaking on the sidelines of the G20 summit in Argentina yesterday, he said that he understood “the legitimate anger, the impatience and the suffering of some people” and called for more time to organise consultations on how to transform France into a low-carbon economy without penalising the poor.
He also warned that any measures announced “in the coming weeks and months” would “never be a retreat” on policy…
Yesterday Minister for Overseas Territories Annick Girardin, who was on a peace mission of her own to quieten the protests in the Indian Ocean island of Reunion, was forced to cut short a meeting with demonstrators after being booed by protesters shouting “Macron, resign!”…
However, the president’s refusal to back down on a planned increase in anti-pollution taxes on fuel set to take effect in January has hardened the resolve of many protesters, including in Reunion, one of the poorest parts of France.
Demonstrators there have blocked roads across the island over the past two weeks, crippling the local economy.
On the mainland, the government is bracing for further possible rioting when demonstrators return to the Champs-Elysees today to press their demands, which include a moratorium on fuel tax increases, an increase in the minimum wage and a national housing insulation plan.
The government has said it will allow the Champs-Elysees protest, but the avenue will be closed to traffic and protesters searched by police before being allowed onto the avenue.
https://www.gulf-times.com/story/614746/French-govt-fails-to-negotiate-with-yellow-vest-mo
20
30 Nov: Reuters: Brussels police battle “yellow vest” protesters
by Clement Rossignol, Yves Herman
Belgian police fired water cannon and teargas in central Brussels on Friday to drive back protesters inspired by France’s “yellow vest” anti-tax movement who hurled rocks at the prime minister’s office.
Police made dozens of arrests and protesters destroyed at least two police vans as what started as a peaceful but unauthorised demonstration, lacking clear leadership and largely promoted on social media, descended into violence when people, many masked or hooded, tried to breach police lines.
For three hours, crowds complaining about fuel prices and a squeeze on living standards had disrupted traffic and walked the streets. Police said they had arrested about 60 people before the violence, mostly for blocking roads or carrying large fireworks.
Several hundred people wearing the fluorescent safety vests drivers must carry in their vehicles eventually converged on the office of Prime Minister Charles Michel. Dozens, many of them masked, threw rocks, firecrackers and road signs at police who doused them with high-pressure water jets and fired gas rounds.
The disturbances lasted over an hour before riot police surrounded and then arrested some demonstrators while the rest of the crowd dispersed. Police put the total number of protesters at about 500.
Three individuals were kept in detention after the protests, police said in a statement, adding that other judicial decisions could be made in the following hours.
Michel tweeted: “No impunity for unacceptable violence in Brussels. Those who came to smash and loot must be punished.”
Protests in Belgium, notably around fuel depots in the French-speaking south, have been inspired by the yellow vest — or “gilet jaune” — actions in France against increases in fuel duty imposed by President Emmanuel Macron’s government as part of efforts to reduce emissions causing global warming.
“Michel, resign!” people chanted on Friday. Michel, a liberal ally of Macron, voiced sympathy for people’s troubles on Thursday, but added: “Money doesn’t fall from the sky.”
His centre-right coalition faces an election in May.
https://in.reuters.com/article/belgium-protests/brussels-police-water-cannon-yellow-vest-protesters-idINKCN1NZ1L4?il=0
20
30 Nov: UK Telegraph: Brussels protesters attack PM’s office as Paris braces for more ‘yellow vest’ unrest
by James Crisp & Henry Samuel
The Belgian protests came as France prepared for “Act 3” of nationwide protests against “green” fuel tax hikes and the high cost of living. These are showing little sign of abating after talks between yellow vest representatives and the prime minister ended in fiasco…
***Metro stations were closed as a precaution as the protest teetered on the brink of street-fighting, despite the demonstrators’ repeated insistence their march was peaceful…
Troublemakers were chased away from the Belgian equivalent of Downing St by riot police, water cannons and tear gas. Stones were thrown in return, but some insisted by masked troublemakers and not the “yellow vests”…
Later, loud bangs rang out as protesters marched down Brussels’ busiest road throwing firecrackers, chanting football songs and being honked by supportive and furious drivers…
***“We want this movement to spread,” said Gilles, who did not want to give his surname. “It began in France, it is here now, and we want it to continue to Germany and the Netherlands, across Europe, even to England.”…
Over in Paris, builders were busy boarding up flagship banks and stores along the Champs-Elysées as “the world’s most beautiful avenue” braced for its third straight Saturday of violence…
Caught woefully off guard last Saturday, police are taking no chances this time: they have mobilised up to 5,000 officers, are banning traffic and allowing in pedestrians only after ID checks.
Christophe Castaner, the interior minister, said access would be “very tight”, with bag searches and systematic requests for identity papers from anybody trying to enter…
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2018/11/30/brussels-protesters-attack-pms-office-yellow-vest-movement-spreads/
10
https://www.theguardian.com/science/2018/nov/30/magma-shift-mysterious-seismic-wave-event-mayotte
eg, is this related to something you were interested in a couple of threads back?? Seems like its the vibe from the drains. 🙂
02
somebody has to say it … it could be the Red October
50
Lol! We should all club together and crowdfund a sense of humor for Matrix Transform for Xmas?? 🙂
24
really pull together… a jetski as well.
🙂
20
I heard a star exploded out there in the ether somehwere, maybe its the reverb?
10
in M77
00
Hey, get AngryG55 to check it out on his way back to his home planet??
00
Still dreaming of me, hey phlip. !
Constantly on your mind.. 😉
GET over it, little child.
10
theirABC’s usual modus operandi; be a little critical, but don’t get quotes from the Opposition, whether political or otherwise:
1 Dec: ABC: How Carnegie set out to harness the power of waves and ended up sailing into a financial storm
By Rebecca Turner and Kathryn Diss
It appeared an irresistible political proposal — a wave farm that would harvest the seemingly endless energy generated by the ocean and power homes in a marginal electorate, the idyllic WA south coastal town of Albany.
But while renewable energy projects can make headline-grabbing election promises, like Opposition Leader Bill Shorten’s solar battery promises last week, it can be tricky to live up to the hype once you are in government.
That is one of the lessons the WA Labor Government led by Mark McGowan has been learning about the downside to selling a renewable energy dream.
The Albany wave energy project that the then-opposition leader promised before the 2017 WA election would turn Albany into a globally recognised renewable energy hub, create hundreds of jobs and power homes is now looking increasingly uncertain.
This week, the McGowan Government threw the company driving the project, Carnegie Clean Energy, the latest of several lifelines since it won a competitive tender in October last year.
Aside from Carnegie, its investors and the Government, many want the project to succeed, from Albany residents to the local council, from wave energy developers to renewable energy supporters.
But its problems could be a cautionary tale for any government tempted to flick the switch on that irresistible energy election promise…
Regional Development Minister Alannah MacTiernan: “For us to help this homegrown WA technology to have an opportunity to break through and be competitive, it does need Government investment.”
But renewable energy analyst Peter Strachan argued public money should not go towards such big research and development projects.
“I think the public needs a better bang for its buck,” he said.
“It’s all well to encourage new technologies, and we must do that, but when it comes to building $30 million, $60 million projects, I don’t know that that’s the best space.”…
When an election commitment involves a promise to power homes and put renewable energy into the grid, it would not be unreasonable for shareholders and taxpayers to assume the technology is already at a commercial scale.
Yet there is no requirement in Carnegie’s contract to produce any particular amount of energy…
This project was supported by more than $13 million from the Australian Renewable Energy Agency (ARENA), but the agency would not release any progress reports.
Ms MacTiernan also would not say how much energy was produced by CETO 5…
Carnegie chief executive Jonathan Fievez could not provide details either.
“I do not have that off the top of my head,” he said.
Mr Fievez, the company’s former chief technology officer, said producing energy was not “the main game” at Garden Island…
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2018-12-01/how-carnegie-clean-energy-sailed-into-a-financial-storm/10571298
30 Nov: ABC: Carnegie Clean Energy shareholders use AGM to quiz wave power company on poor performance
By Kathryn Diss and Rebecca Turner
Long-suffering shareholders in embattled wave power company Carnegie Clean Energy have questioned the company’s ability to remain afloat…
One shareholder, Greg Benjamin, said he had seen the value of his shares plummet…
In his address, chairman Terry Stinson conceded the company had failed its shareholders.
“Commercially, it would be an understatement to say that Carnegie failed to deliver on expectations,” he told the gathering.
“On $10 million in revenue, the company lost $63 million, including a $34.9 million write-down of intangibles.
“The losses continue into this year, however not at the same magnitude.”…
Sale of solar subsidiary off
Investors also learned on Friday that Carnegie’s plan to sell a majority stake in its solar subsidiary, Energy Made Clean (EMC), at a 75 per cent loss to Sydney-based TAG Pacific Limited had fallen over…
As a result of its financial turmoil, Carnegie has been put on notice by the WA Government to show it can fund its $26 million share of a wave energy project in Albany by mid-February…
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2018-11-30/carnegie-clean-energy-agm-shareholders-quiz-wave-power-company/10571192
10
30 Nov: WestAustralian: Peter Milne: Another setback for Carnegie as EMC sale falls through
The board of Carnegie Clean Energy faced shareholders today without a plan for its financial future after the sale of its troubled remote energy arm EMC fell through.
Carnegie chairman Terry Stinson said the company would work to minimise the losses from EMC while it looked for other buyers, something it was restricted from doing until now under the terms of its sale agreement with TAG Pacific.
EMC operated in the same hyper-competitive solar sector as RCR Tomlinson, which collapsed into administration this month.
The failed sale ends a disastrous year for the company whose shares are less than one-sixth the value they were in February…
Director Mike Fitzpatrick said he shared investors’ disappointment.
“Carnegie is the leading wave energy company in the world, but it’s a very difficult space,” he said…
Mr Stinson said Carnegie would find a way forward, even without the Federal research and development incentives.
“You can’t build your whole business around government grants,” he said.
He said he did not think the State Government would hold back further funding for the Albany project.
Managing director Jonathan Fievez said media interest in the company had been focussed on the politics of the State Government funding rather than on wave energy.
‘We’ve been very disappointed about how political the project has become.” he said.
https://thewest.com.au/business/energy/another-setback-for-carnegie-as-emc-sale-falls-through-ng-b881036998z
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““Carnegie is the leading wave energy company in the world, but it’s a very difficult space,” he said…”
Reminds me of the Iraqi Information Minister and “the US tanks are not in the city! ” fighting the PR fight right to the bitter end
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Fresh from alarm central , I always thought green spaces and areas of lawn had a cooling effect on our city’s ?
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2018-12-01/lawn-porn-and-australias-love-of-green-grass-harming-environment/10570548
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Robert the Greenists want us to live in a bloody desert !
Just as well we can all give them the finger.
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What next. A PhD in Lawnology.
Did we really sink our taxes into universities to get this?
I don’t water our lawn.
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As we are living in a bushfire area we have surrounded the house with well-mown green stuff…lawn is a fanciful name for what we have . However, for the first time this season I have water going on to some of it. We need to do something to protect us from the results of greenie interference in the handling of roadsides and forests around here. We were fortunate that the 2009 firestorm didn’t quite reach us but it was a close shave, helped by someone’s newly cleared paddock nearby.
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We have also planted deciduous trees near the house and have orchards either end. Unfortunately, there are also pine trees nearer than would be ideal, the nearest planted by our predecessors and also (further away), some I planted 20 years ago…tubestock…the only stuff that survived the winds here and we wanted stock protection barriers…hmmm.
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we dont water our lawn either, if we did it would be with tank water we have collected. Is there anything these Grinches dont want to control and restrict?
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prior to Brussels protest:
30 Nov: EurActiv: ‘Yellow vests’ show limits of consumer acceptance on climate change
By Dave Keating
As the European Commission unveiled its long-term vision for greenhouse gas reduction on Wednesday (28 November), a yellow cloud hung over the grand pronouncements.
The “yellow vests” protests in France the week before, opposing new environmental taxes on fuel, showed that the public is perhaps not ready to make the kind of short-term sacrifices envisioned by the Commission’s plan to reach net zero emissions by 2050.
The French taxes were enacted by the government as a way to discourage driving and increase the use of public transport, with funds going to climate change mitigation efforts.
The yellow vests are taking their protests to Brussels today, expected to snarl traffic cause general disruption in the city’s EU quarter.
As the Commission strategy was being presented, some of Europe’s local utilities were presenting their own long-term vision nearby. And the same yellow cloud hung over the discussion.
Vienna’s energy provider, Wien Energie, was presenting a study they conducted looking at the city’s energy future, concluding that a low-carbon future is both feasible and cost-effective in the long term.
Sceptical public
Michael Strebl, general manager of energy provider Wien Energie, was peppered with questions about the yellow vests and consumer acceptance after he presented the study.
“We are focusing very much right now on public acceptance,” he said. “We are a utility, we have to convince our customers to go on this journey with us. But you have to transform the utility, because otherwise the customers will not follow you.”
During a panel discussion, Henning Häder from electricity utility association Eurelectric said this is an issue that local utilities are struggling with across Europe – how do you move at the right speed that ensures consumer acceptance?
“I think you can see with what’s going on in France now how public acceptance is affected when you mess with energy costs for people,” he said. “Public acceptance is probably going to be a bigger factor going forward than costs. That’s something we really need to start thinking about right now.”
***But he pointed to a study unveiled by the association on Tuesday in Brussels showing that the power sector has to completely transform, and it needs to do it faster than originally predicted. “The study is completely unanimously supported by the entire European power sector,” he noted.
This should show consumers that utilities are committed to this as a long-term project that will save them money in the end, even if it might result in higher costs in the short term…
Christian Holzleitner from the European Commission’s climate and energy division sounded a more positive note.
“As soon as renewable technologies get cost competitive, people like them and they choose them,” he said. “For instance we know that e-mobility will be the most cost-competitive solution, and it comes with a lot of benefits for your well-being.”…
Peter Weinelt, vice-CEO of infrastructure provider Wiener Stadtwerke, said that the key is educating consumers about the benefits of switching to cleaner energy, and involving them in making the choice…
Not everyone was convinced. One audience member noted that his daughter had demonstrated for action on climate change in the EU Quarter last week, but also supported the yellow vest protesters. “At the same time the French guys were blocking the highways because Macron wanted to increase the energy price,” he said. “It’s all good what you’re saying, but to invest costs a lot of money, and there are conflicts of interest everywhere.”
Holzleitner said this is the purpose of the Commission’s 2050 strategy – to provide a long-term framework to show both businesses and consumers that there will be benefits in the long term. The Commission wants to show them that any short-term sacrifice will be worth it…
As Brussels braces for the arrival of the yellow vests today, EU policy-makers and businesses will still be thinking of ways to convince them to make some sacrifices for the energy transition, in exchange for a brighter long-term future.
https://www.euractiv.com/section/climate-strategy-2050/news/yellow-vests-show-limits-of-consumer-acceptance-on-climate-change/
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***AN ABSOLUTE MUST-READ.
re the writers: Martin Goillandeau is a French reporter from Lille who just graduated from the Columbia Journalism School. Before coming to the US, he covered the 2017 French election as a student in Paris. Martin has also worked for several TV and radio outlets in his home country. Makana Eyre is an American reporter based in Paris, France. He is a graduate of the Columbia Journalism School, where he was a fellow at the Stabile Center for Investigative Journalism. Makana works as a freelance correspondent for the Haitian Times, covering the Haitian diaspora in Europe.
30 Nov: Columbia Journalism Review: Journalists harassed and assaulted at Yellow Vest protests across France
By Martin Goillandeau and Makana Eyre
As one hundred thousand people mobilized across France last Saturday, Jean-Luc Thomas, a veteran reporter for French TV news channel CNEWS, broadcast live from the heart of the Southern city of Toulouse…That day, as he worked, Thomas experienced something that never happened to him before over his two-decade long career in journalism.
Around 3:30pm, protesters steps away from the Capitol Square, the sprawling City Hall of the so-called pink city, encircled Thomas and several other journalists. At first, they demanded that the reporters “get the f*** out of here.” Then the taunts grew more serious. Dozens of Yellow Vests started yelling, “We want your skin,” and “You’re less than sh**,” then calling the journalists “collaborators,” a reference to the support the Vichy government gave to the Nazis during World War II. The protesters began to spit and kick, and inched closer. Some tried to trip Thomas and his colleagues, and others threw bottles at them. Security guards, tasked with protecting the journalists, ultimately evacuated them. Thomas ran down a side street. Many of the protesters chased after him.
Despite 24 years as a journalist, Thomas says, “I never felt what I felt that day—the feeling of deep fear.” In 2012, the sturdy, spirited shoe-leather reporter had been taken hostage by supporters of France’s far right party, the National Front. Even that incident, he says, did not scare him the way last week did.
This disturbing episode mirrors dozens of incidents of violence and harassment against journalists covering the Yellow Vests across metropolitan France, and on the overseas island territory, Réunion. From interfering with live broadcasts, spitting on reporters, and calling them offensive names to at least one case of serious violence, these incidents have brought to light what Reporters Without Borders called, in a statement, “a worrisome increase in mistrust of the media.” The Yellow Vests have announced that they are planning another round of national protests for this coming Saturday.
Today, Thomas is in shock. He’s currently taking a break from work, away from Toulouse. The memory of the event haunts him. “I felt totally dehumanized and humiliated,” he says, and even feared for his life. Jean-Wilfrid Forquès, a reporter for BFMTV, France’s most-watched news channel, who was with Thomas in Toulouse that day, told Le Monde that the bodyguards who evacuated him “saved my life.” When reached by CJR for comment, Forquès declined to speak, saying that he fears for his safety and is currently under police protection…
According to Isabelle Veyrat-Masson, a research director and media historian at the French National Center for Scientific Research, the Yellow Vests’ tense relationship with the media can be explained, in part, by the fact that this movement found its roots on social media. “The debate around the referendum of the European Constitution in 2005 already showed a real split between a pro-Europe media world on one side and a stigmatized population that used the internet to debate and organize their protests,” she says.
The primary target of this mistrust, according to Veyrat-Masson, is the TV channel BFM. The station’s name has become synonymous with inaccurate and government-affiliated reporting for many of the Yellow Vests, who often use the hashtag #BFMacron on social media…
On November 17, during the first round of protests, a video from a regional news show of the public network France 3 went viral. It showed an anchor cutting a reporter’s broadcast just as she was about to mention instances of police violence towards the Yellow Vests in the Aquitaine region. The channel explained in several tweets that they had to cut the reporter because their programming was late and the national edition was about to start, but many protesters condemned the episode as proof of media censorship.
Many other journalists have been harassed in the course of the protests…LENGTHY, MUST READ ALL
https://www.cjr.org/analysis/yellow-vests-france-assault-journalists.php
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So the next push of the Labor and Green parties after allowing anyone into the country is to give the vote to mature 5 year olds.
Union teachers will hand the secret ballot papers in class and show the children how to fill them in. Only socialists know the wisdom of properly supervised children and teenagers. The children will save the planet from the evil capitalists and conservatives and non Unionists. Control of the country will be by communists and their capitalist friends. Pink batts, carbon taxes, RET, windmills, solar panels, free health care and the same wage for everyone, even if they don’t work. There will be no educated rich people. They are the problem.
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