Indonesia might be bigger than you thought. | Image credit: Overlaymaps
Time to pay attention to the fourth largest population in the world.
You might have reused some shopping bags to save the planet but two hundred million people quietly doubled their coal use:
Indonesia’s coal consumption remains high: BP
The BP Statistical Review 2016 revealed on Wednesday that Indonesia’s coal consumption had doubled since 2010. Last year, coal became the country’s dominant source of fuel, accounting for 41 percent of total energy consumption.
Studies show coal consumption remains popular in Indonesia despite its damaging environmental impacts. The government has committed to an ambitious 35,000 megawatt electricity program, in which coal-fueled power plants will still make up the majority of electricity generation, at around 50 percent.
As coal got cheap, Indonesia exported less and used more of it domestically.
They don’t seem to following the IPCC’s plan.
Indonesia will soon have more advanced coal fired power stations than Australia:
Japan’s major conglomerate Itochu Corporation and one of world’s major electricity company, Electric Power Development Co. Ltd (J. Power), have promised to fully support the construction of the coal-fired Batang power plant in Central Java, which will become not only the most efficient but also cleanest thermal power plant in Southeast Asia.
He said that the Batang coal-fired power plant would be the showcase of the company’s latest power generation technology called the ultra-supercritical (USC) technology, which is not only able to improve efficiency but also significantly reduce emission, including carbon dioxide and mercury.
With the USC technology, the power plants operate their boilers at temperatures and pressure above the critical point of water, which results an efficiency of above 45 percent.
Indonesia’s coal fired electricity will be cleaner and more efficient than Australias. (No one is going to invest in better coal plants in an advanced economy like Australia.)
Who’s a quiet coal giant then? Australia provides about 30% of world coal trade, and it’s our largest export industry, but Indonesia digs up about the same amount of coal as Australia exported a few years ago:
Last year, Indonesia only produced 383 million tons of coal, falling short of the 425 million tons target. Although this year’s target has been trimmed to 419 million tons, BMI Research, a unit of Fitch Group, predicts that only 314 million tons will be produced by the year-end.
Today Australia digs up 550Mt of coal in total, and exports about 480Mt.
A quarter of Indonesia’s economy is fossil fuels. The plan is “more”:
The appointment of Arcandra Tahar as the energy and mineral resources minister signaled strongly that the focus of President Joko “Jokowi” Widodo had shifted back to oil and gas, as well as coal.
The President is aware that the sector is in jeopardy, especially given that a quarter of Indonesia’s economy comes from oil and gas. Investment in this sector has stagnated
They too wonder about the Trump effect, but suspect shale will keep the coal boom away:
It was part of Trump’s campaign last month to boost the coal industry in the world’s second-largest economy. Will it affect the world’s coal industry, especially Indonesia as the main coal exporter in Southeast Asia? Many people doubt that. Bloomberg has even reported that doubts have arisen recently in the US over Trump’s ability to revive coal’s glory, as abundant shale gas has structurally eroded the coal market.
h.t Willie S.
They might have the most advanced scrubbers to date, but that does nothing for CO2- and boy are the plants going to be pleased!
340
The issue from a measurement point if view is how much of this coal goes to making electricity. Indonesia does not have a heating problem (its in the tropics). So how is the local coal consumption used? Assuming its electricity one can only conclude there is a massive uptake in air-conditioning or a huge increase in manufacturing or both. as they are our immediate neighbours what advantage does this offer Australia?
132
Unless Adam Bandt and the rest of greens and their official media outlet, the ABC, can be defunded and taken to task, the proximity of Indonesia will mean nothing to Australia, because Bandt and the ABC will keep coal in the ground.
Bandt literally wants to keep coal in the ground. I suppose that’s preferable to giving it away or charging our use of it on a parity basis.
We really are dumb in this nation about power because the greens and the ABC have dictated the policy and the rest of the politicians are gutless.
411
That link to Bandt and keeping coal in the ground is here: http://www.adambandt.com/endofcoal
90
I am not sure that I worry about our politicians being gutless, rather that they seems to have the intellectual capability of a garden slug.
200
Now, now, please don’t insult garden slugs by comparing them to politicians.
151
I stand corrected. Garden slugs don’t need lots of hangers-on, no chauffeurs, no expense accounts and no pensions either. And they can sometimes be better looking than some politicians.
90
Geoff Indonesia needs more power for its expanding car,scooter and textile manufacturing . In jan. of this year the govt also started building a fast train from Jakarta to Bandung that will eventually cross all the way to east java.
100
The bullet train has been held up by red tape and lack of permits, but now they are on their way. Take note 75% of the money is coming from the China Development Bank.
http://www.indonesia-investments.com/news/todays-headlines/construction-jakarta-bandung-high-speed-railway-project-to-start/item7075?
50
off topic, but China recently sent a delegation by train to Latvia (in a symbolic, but pointed gesture) to discuss the “Eurasian Landbridge”, and role which 16 Central and Eastern European countries could play in such a system.
20
They have an excellent PR machine, no doubt they would have discussed the Two Silk Roads.
Rumor has it that Beijing suggested the Jakarta to Bandung VFT to the Indonesians who then put up a tender process. The Japanese tender failed and they were greatly miffed because the Chinese said they would build it for virtually nothing.
Not exactly, but the terms and conditions are very agreeable.
10
Have you been to Indonesia, Geoff. About 15 cities over 1 million people and 5 well over 3 million (Jakarta,10+ million). With a growing middle class, that’s a lot of air conditioners.
120
When I last researched I discovered that the population of Indonesia exceeds 240 million people however most are struggling to live comfortably and they are spread out over many islands that form the nation of Indonesia sovereign territories.
On the other hand there are around 45 million middle class consumers, far more than Australia has.
60
climate otter,
if you raise efficiency, you will lower CO2 per kwh.
50
“They might have the most advanced scrubbers to date,”
A good reason for visiting Indonesia.
Unless you don’t mean “scrubbers” in the English slang sense.
30
Yes. The amount of CO2 is a matter of immutable chemistry. However they may burn less coal at higher temperatures and improve the efficiency of conversion of heat to mechanical energy as per thermodynamics. Temperature defines the efficiency as in the Carnot engine.
In reality this is just a game. Black coal is about 6% more energy efficient for the same amount of CO2. Victoria is now supposed to buy energy from black coal in NSW when there is no financial incentive for black coal production. It is all nonsense from the Greens who hate fossil fuels, dams and farmers. None of the anti coal stories make sense, unless CO2 is poisonous industrial waste, like H2O.
80
I have tried to make that point before, that water is also released from burning fuel.
My question are 2 fold for the climate experts.
1. How mush extra H2O has entered atmosphere since the start of the industrial revolution from burning fuel.
2. What effect has all this extra water have on cloud cover, sea-level change, atmospheric and sea temperature change, both regionally and globally, etc.
Needless to say I was batted away as either a crank climate deŋıer or someone grasping at straws to explain current weather condition. I’m neither. I just think that the science community has a responsibility to present *all* the evidence about what happens to the environment when fuel is burned, not just CO2.
70
I suspect that the H2O from industry (over 100 years) is nanoscopic compared to the evaporation from the oceans each day.
The real Carbon pollution (from coal) is of course Carbon particulates, if they have the scrubbing technology then all good.
60
I suspect that the Asian continent in general will be into this in a big way. Coal is going to be very cheap, especially from Australia, as we sit on piles of it while shivering in the dark most of the year.
280
Well, apart from Japan, China, Sth. Korea, Vietnam, India, Indonesia, Russia, Germany, Poland, Turkey, South Africa, Greece and Malawi who else is building coal fired power stations? Must be some others with over 2000 new ones on the books.
The whole problem is that Australian politicians have a grossly inflated sense of their own intellectual capacity. Knowing nothing about science, mathematics, thermodynamics, physics, chemistry and electricity generation (list shortened to the obvious deficiencies) they think they can decide where and how our electricity is produced. They promise jobs while destroying the advantage we had with cheap electricity and wonder why existing jobs are moving overseas. But they have their pensions and overseas postings so they think all is well.
160
CO2 emission is a function of coal burnt…hard math. However, the harmful effects argument of that CO2 is about to unravel very rapidly.
Funny, I learnt about SC and USC steam plant over thirty years ago. Standard line, we got so much coal we do not need the high initial costs of that efficiency. Kogan Creek is the only SC plant here at the moment.
131
Mark, I think you’ll also find that Callide C at Biloela is SC.
40
Ah, but we Australians will have lots of ecotourism and green jobs. Not sure what those things are – something to do with brochures? – but they sound really good. Can’t wait.
190
Just look at Tasmania and you’ll see what eco-tourism and green jobs provide.
210
don’t forget the concerted effort to “help” green tourism in Queensland by telling the world that the Great Barrier Reef is no longer there…
170
President Obama warned that the GBR was disappearing, and he knows what that feels like.
20
South Australia is heading in the same direction. I just hope the Tour DownUnder convoy contains a lot of generators this year.
40
They run it during daylight for that reason.
31
Burning brochures releases CO2 so expect the Greens to ban them shortly.
60
Flags must not contain carbon
30
You’re going to need a Ministry of Brochures
and that’ll require a few more public service
jobs … quite a few actually.
50
Maybe, but where are the new taxpayers who pay real taxes that are in part used to pay for public servants?
50
Dennis:
They never ask that question. They just assume that there is an inexhaustible supply of money, and when the public protest, e.g. by not voting for the approved candidate, there are screams and insults.
50
Greens do not read Schumpeter. Yer jest
print more money.
40
We’ll have to get the high-gloss brochures made up in China. Will that still count as “green jobs”?
40
Well look, China’s ‘planning to go
green eventually, so sure, cut them sure some slack.And jobs off-shore does fit the leftist-
green-supra-sovereignty-society-without-borders
meme.
30
Drop the second ‘sure’ and reline and it’ll read ok. 🙁
20
tons of fun. figure it’s best to post it on this thread if everyone is to see it:
16 Nov: ClimateDepot: Marc Morano: UN Armed Security Shuts Down Skeptics After Trump Event – SHREDDED UN Climate Treaty at Summit
http://www.climatedepot.com/2016/11/16/un-armed-security-shuts-down-skeptics-after-trump-event-shredded-un-climate-treaty-at-summit/
140
As Marc Marano said, other groups were at that spot all day doing similiar things, presenting their positions on various issues. But the moment a cut out of Trump appeared somebody called security and the eviction followed. Hope it gets widespread coverage.
60
But but …
http://mobile.abc.net.au/news/2016-11-16/china27s-coal-use-peaked-in-20132c-report-says/8030428
Possibly a decline in China may offset a rise in Indonesia?
20
I understand China bought AU coal for coking in steel production. China is now cutting steel production to concentrate on high tech production (This 5 year plan), bye bye to cheap junk, they’ve made their money now.
10
15 Nov: Bloomberg: Joe Carroll: A $900 Billion Oil Treasure Lies Beneath West Texas Desert
In a troubled oil world, the Permian Basin is the gift that keeps on giving.
One portion of the giant field, known as the Wolfcamp formation, was found to hold 20 billion barrels of oil trapped in four layers of shale beneath the desert in West Texas, the U.S. Geological Survey said in a report on Tuesday. That’s almost three times larger than North Dakota’s Bakken play and the single largest U.S. unconventional crude accumulation ever assessed. At current prices, that oil is worth almost $900 billion.
The estimate lends credence to Pioneer Natural Resources Co. Chief Executive Officer Scott Sheffield’s assertion that the Permian’s shale endowment could hold as much as 75 billion barrels, making it second only to Saudi Arabia’s Ghawar field. Pioneer has been increasing its production targets all year as drilling in the Wolfcamp produced bigger gushers than the Irving, Texas-based company’s engineers and geologists forecast…READ ALL
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2016-11-15/permian-s-wolfcamp-holds-20-billion-barrels-of-oil-u-s-says
3 Nov: Daily Signal: David Williams: It’s Time to Stop Spending Taxpayer Dollars on Elon Musk and Cronyism
(David Williams is president of Taxpayers Protection Alliance, a Washington-based nonprofit and nonpartisan organization that researches, and educates the public about, the government’s effects on the economy.)
From Enron to Bernie Madoff, at the end of every great American financial scandal, the totality of the perpetrators’ greed seems to be matched only by the public’s incredulity at how such a thing could be allowed to happen.
And thanks to Elon Musk, there’s a good chance we may all be asking this question again soon.
The Senate Finance Committee and the House Ways and Means Committee have launched a probe into tax incentives paid to solar companies, according to The Wall Street Journal. The committee probes, led by their respective Republican chairmen, Rep. Kevin Brady of Texas and Sen. Orrin Hatch of Utah, have found an appropriate and disturbing target to begin this work.
SolarCity, a solar installation company set to be purchased by Tesla Motors Inc., is one of the seven companies named in the initial investigation.
Already grossly subsidized, Musk’s SolarCity has become an albatross of waste, fraud, and abuse of tax payer dollars…READ ALL
http://dailysignal.com/2016/11/13/its-time-to-stop-spending-taxpayer-dollars-on-elon-musk-and-cronyism/
40
There’s still hope that a solar-powered monorail built by Musk could connect Timmy’s Geothermia to Turnbull’s agile mini-cities which would then be connected to each other by Tesla hypertubes or even ultratubes…or something.
Keep the faith, people. We want our children and our children’s children to live in a world where they can aspire to any subsidy they can dream of.
40
I am gonna borrow ‘n disseminate this!
20
Black gold, which was laid down in seams,
Is available worldwide in reams,
To enrich many nations,
By more coal-powered stations,
With millions achieving their dreams.
240
Oh, oh Ruairi! You’ve done it again!
30
Although coal might now be the most important fossil fuel in Indonesia, it is still not the biggest source of GHG emissions. That is likely to be from forest fires. However, nobody has a clue about what are the total GHG emissions in Indonesia. Last year I looked at the estimates. For 2005 I found five estimates, ranging from 1171 to 2829 MtCO2e. As a rough guide the additional 35,000MW might add another 300 MtCO2e.
70
You can be a smart country OR you can think that you are a smart country.
There is a bloody big difference.
110
The Indonesian INDC submission to COP21 Paris shows that they are masters of political spin in producing their emissions targets. From by reading of the figures reveals that Indonesia:-
– Cherry-picked a base year.
– Made future reductions relative to a fictional “Business as Usual” scenario with inflated economic growth figures.
Made sure that even the most ambitious objectives are achievable within the range of an objective forecast.
– Focus the negotiations on achieving the conditional objectives subject to outside assistance. Any failure to reach agreement then becomes the fault of rich countries failing to provide the finance.
– Allow some room to make last minute concessions not in the original submission, contingent on further unspecified outside assistance that is so vast the money will never be forthcoming.
70
We are discussing energy, the very life blood of our civilisation, cheap, always there Energy being the force that created the Industrial Revolution which has and is still lifting most of the world’s peoples to a much longer, much richer and far more disease free, healthy and adequately fed lives that our species has never before experienced in its few hundred thousand years of existence.
So this item from Texas where one often gets the impression that the whole of Texas is riddled with oil wells, is quite an amazing discovery.
When reading this item remember also that the British geologists believe they also have shale deposits perhaps nowhere near as large in extent as the Texas fields but are also as deep as in over 1500 metres deep which give indications that are yet to be yet proven by drilling and frakking that they have just as much oil and gas as has just been found in the Texas fields
The British government and a major local Council have just given the go ahead for one of Britain major shale fields to be drilled and fracked despite the usual green anti human development elitist arrogance and their desperate and despicable attempts to stop the drilling and frakking which will prove it is hoped that the oil and gas reserves are there as hoped and geologically suggested and anticipated which can only benefit the British by ultimately providing a local and cheaper and completely reliable energy source for the British nation for the next half a century or more.
Permian’s Wolfcamp formation called biggest shale oil field in U.S.
Which probably puts this one single American shale oil and gas field if the oil figures are correct, in around 4th in size in the world behind Venezuela’s Orinoco Valley heavy oil fields, Canada’s Athabasca Tar Sands province and the Saudi Ghawar super field.
The truly immense Russian Siberian Bazenhov shale field where Russia’s oil and gas production is centred on, an oil gas shale field that is still mostly unexplored , in size and extent dwarfs by orders of magnitude the size and extent of any other shale fields in the world.
EIA Report [ 2013 ]
Technically Recoverable Shale Oil and Shale Gas Resources: Russia
All of which in the long run when modicum of sanity and realism finally gets around to striking the odd politician or two between the eyes [ thats just to get their attention! ] , will lead to the elimination of the so called Renewable energy scam and its scammers possibly for all time.
And that will be associated with a big reduction in energy costs which in turn will re-invigorate industry and business [A small item of benefit to the entire nation that seems to have completely escaped the tiny intelligence quotient of our local politicians ]
By the time humanity has used up the world’s reserves of oil and gas and some coal plus the methane deposits on the edges of the Continental shelves of the world’s oceans, we will most likely have had decades / centuries of access to proven fusion powered generators that will be able to provide mankind with all the energy he needs for as long as he is existent on this planet.
91
Addendum;
After submitting the above post [ # 11 ] I checked with WUWT and found that they already had a post and a number of comments on this Texas shale news.
The comments from the oil and gas geology guys on WUWT are very interesting.
31
O/T directly but relevant to the main thread topic:
Page 12 of my edition of today’s Australian (Thursday Nov. 17th, 2016) contains a remarkable article attributed to Michael Asten, Professor of Geophysics, Monash University.
Titled: Incoming Administration Likely To Play Down Human Effect On Climate, this article encompasses the broad range of natural vs anthropogenic influence on climate, quoting recent (2016) papers that reduce the human impact and recognise natural cycles back to “Roman, medieval and recent times”, the cherry picking around ENSO events and the dishonesty of recent BOM-CSIRO publications. Roy Spencer, Matt Ridley, Nicholas Scafetta et al are noted somewhat approvingly (!!) with a particular note on the bias so far in suppressing research into natural causes (!!!). The 20 year “pause” (described as a global temperature slowdown) is noted and climageddon is characterised as possibly a very long time away.
In short, Halleluha etc …
But what is really remarkable is that only 4-5 years ago, this very same Prof Asten was writing letters to the Aus (published) decrying deniers in a very, very loud voice. The then Executive of the GSA (may they live reviled in !nfamy) even republished this very s!lly Asten letter in the monthly GSA Magazine as an example of how to refute deniers. It was that incident as a culmination of arrogant disregard and d!shonesty that finally prompted me to resign from the GSA after 30+ years of continuous membership.
The depth of hypocrisy is completely beyond astonishing. Presumably Asten now wants funding to research and characterise natural climate changes. Well, I don’t want him anywhere near a pot of money. I’m framing this article for posterity and I hope Asten reads this comment, the sn@ke.
Look what the Don has achieved even before being inaugurated.
[I apologise for the pepper of odd characters – !, @ etc – but one can never tell which actual, legitimate English words may be c3nsored]
100
What’s GSA?
Asten doesn’t seem that bad at all vs the outright bottom feeders like Flannery et al
Jo even had a piece about him wanting actual science brought into Climate Science
http://joannenova.com.au/2014/01/michael-astens-novel-idea-lets-put-science-into-climate-policy/
10
1) Geological Society of Australia
2) Asten is now recanting on exactly the evidence he publicly ridiculed with sneering 4 years ago.
If you think bottomless hypocrisy is not “too bad”, I suspect you may need to get out more. Why do you think you can ever trust it ?
3) the 2014 thread on Asten didn’t grasp the back history. As Steve McIntyre intones: watch the pea, not the thimbles.
50
Do you have a link? The only stuff I could find about Asten on climate was Jo’s piece plus him being attacked on Deltoid and The Conversation for asking about the IPCC modelling around 2011.
Not trying to doubt you – just that I didn’t find anything doesn’t mean my search was exhaustive.
00
This proves that Australia must gift more foreign aid monies to Indonesia, and to the UN IPCC, and other foreign recipients.
Australians do not need electricity power security and lowest possible consumer prices, or to assist the 1 in every 8 of us who now live in poverty, tens of thousands of homeless children too.
Australian politicians are a disgrace.
80
“the fourth largest population in the world.”
Hooray! About time people noticed just how big Indonesia is.
70
RoHa;
You got that dead right and its right on our doorstep with the Australian and Indonesian territories only a few hundred kilometres distance from each other.
Darwin and the whole of NW Australia are very aware of Indonesia but the Canberra bureaucracy and our inner Southern city wealthy elites are likely to just pass off Indonesia as just another fly over Asian country on their way to the fleshpots of Europe.
Indonesia;
Population ; 355 millions; 4th largest by population nation in the world.
GDP [ PPP = Purchasing Power Parity ] over US $3 trillion or 8th largest in the world and well, ahead of Australia.
Australia; GDP PPP based economy of US $ 1.137 trillion comes in 19th in the world.
GDP; Nominal ; US $937 billion i.e. 13th in the world;
Australia GDP nominal = US$ 1.223 trillion i.e.; 13th in the world.
A Republic with an elected President and Two elected houses, Upper and Lower house.
Indonesia today in development is probably about where China was a quarter of a century ago and are now starting on that long development trek which Australia should be very closely associated with instead of the total concentration on China.
If China continues to sling its weight around, Indonesia is far more likely to welcome Australia into its sphere of influence to help counter Chinese pushiness in SE Asia as Indonesia has a violent recent history of an ethnic Chinese based communist party, the PKI, almost gaining control of Indonesia through violent armed insurrection in the 1965.
An estimated half to one million were killed and eliminated in the violence that followed and the ethnic Chinese based Indonesian Communist Party was destroyed by the Indonesian Army under General Suharto.
Indonesia only resumed formal diplomatic contact with China in 1990.
And for those much younger generations who deplore the atomic bomb being used on Japan to end WW2, Indonesia lost up to 4 million of its citizens due to starvation and forced labour in the 3 years the Japanese controlled Indonesia.
China lost up to an estimated 15 millions plus in the Japanese Occupied areas of China from 1938 to 1945.
70
Clarification; [ bloody fat finger syndrome! ]
Indonesia;
GDP [ PPP = Purchasing Power Parity ] over US $3 trillion or 8th largest in the world and well ahead of Australia.
GDP; Nominal ; US $937 billion i.e. 16th in the world;
.
Australia;
GDP PPP based economy of US $ 1.137 trillion comes in 19th in the world.
Australia GDP nominal = US$ 1.223 trillion i.e.; 13th in the world.
30
Isnt darwin closer to Jakarta than to Canberra? 😉
10
New coal fired power technology, those HELE (High Efficiency Low Emission) USC (UltraSuperCritical) Plants also give more bang for your buck, higher output, and while doing that, less CO2 emissions.
With those old tech coal fired plants (similar to nearly every (black) coal fired plant in Australia) they will burn 330grams of coal for every KWH of delivered power, compared to 282 grams/KWH for the new tech plants, and when you’re talking outputs up and beyond 2000MW Plus, that’s a lot less CO2 emissions.
That’s 15% less CO2 on a KWH new tech/KWH old tech basis.
Tony.
130
South Australia, wind capital of OZ will be
green with envy.
50
O/T
‘…the estimated number of submarine volcanoes had jumped to more than three million.
‘But any thought that three million underwater volcanoes might affect ocean temperature was considered heretical. I mean, natural forces couldn’t possibly be heating the seas. Could they? Let’s keep blaming humans.’
Robert Felix
80
“We know what the surface of the moon is better than we know what the surface of the sea floor is.” James Gardner
30
Oops missed the (ironic)link
http://oceanexplorer.noaa.gov/history/quotes/explore/explore.html
00
Just posted this link in wrong thread, reposting here. Moving stuff. Contrasting good ridgie-didge coal mining folk with the smug celebs and globocrats who just got rejected at the ballot box.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Evua6gubW2A
Bring down Big Green!
30
It is great to hear that Indonesia is advancing so rapidly
00