Analogies don’t get more dead than this one. Whole sentences have been killed in the quest for a soothing salad. The poor souls at Reneweconomy …
A Valiant Eco-Worrier, Evan Stamatiou, imagines climate change as an influenza pandemic.
If you imagine climate change as a flu that the world is coming down with, then you could probably say that the physical symptoms are only just starting to be felt.
On the other hand, thinks Jo, if you imagine climate change as like the tide, then you don’t bother trying to stop it.
On the third hand (which is really my foot) I don’t imagine anything. Instead I hop along to a tide gauge and check the data. At 1mm a year, this is a flu that will hit in 3016. Panic in 500 years then.
….interventions to fight the symptoms of ‘Climate Flu’ still touch on a raw nerve for so many today.
No sir. “Interventions” to fight Climate Flu don’t touch any raw nerves at all. Skeptics couldn’t care less if someone wants to hand-wash their hair shirt and drive a hybrid. What touches a nerve are the way people with imaginary illnesses want to force everyone else to buy a hair shirt and wear it.
And so it’s worth revisiting the question; why such a persistent resistance to these interventions?
Why? Because the salesman is selling a dead duck (with a hair shirt). They want us to pay thousands to set up infrasonic shaking towers that might slow floods in Zaire? — We don’t want one thank you.
Besides the interventions were only ever going to fight “symptoms” (that’s your word Evan). We all know Aspirin doesn’t cure influenza, and we all know solar panels don’t stop storms.
I defy anyone to rewrite this next para as one meaningful sentence:
One obvious explanation is that as Climate Flu remains relatively asymptomatic it also remains convenient to ignore the progressive onset of its symptoms, even deny its very existence. And this bias towards denialism is reinforced by the fact that Climate Flu has become an incredibly inconvenient problem to deal with.
Somehow climate flu remains “relatively asymptomatic” but has become “incredibly inconvenient” at the same time. Call it Schrodinger’s Flu. Somehow, this is “obvious”? Look out, the hint of sniffle is SARS; activate the isolation ward, and lock down the nation! That would be asymptomatic and inconvenient…
It’s a keyword salad. The only burning question is if Evan Stamatiou is real or a robot.
I could go on (he does) but the gist is that the magical cure is a rare herb called bipartisan politicus.
Bipartisan politicus apparently acts to simultaneously reduce debt and stimulate the economy by attacking waste and dysfunction created in toxic political environments (think Australia’s energy market). It also prevents ‘pop-up’ government schemes and programs from being designed and implemented – only then to be binned, thereby saving the Government countless more millions.
He has the right idea. If only he could see the field full of bipartisan politicus growing on the Plains of Common Sense. Hardly any politician ever visits the Great Plains where 61% of the population lives. There they’d find that Bipartisan flowers could bloom when policies are designed to tackle actual diseases instead of imaginary ones.
A warmist, when feeling quite blue,
Presented with climate-change flu,
To a doctor, a skeptic,
Who went near apoplectic,
When the patient blamed more CO2.
— Ruairi
Seems like his idea of bipartisan politics is you all do what we say and there is no problem. Bipartisan allows for different opinions and honest compromise for the common good. When have the global warmistas ever acted in this way?
Reminds me of the old saying about Communism and how they negotiated.
“What’s mine is mine, what’s yours is negotiable.
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Leonard,
I always thought that was the definition for Socialism?
Communism starts from the premise that, “What’s yours belongs to the State, and the State gives me, what I want.” There is no negotiation in that.
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I was talking about negotiations between the USSR and other countries. Should have said negotiations between countries.
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All citizens are equal but some citizens are more equal than the others.
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Otherwise known by that Polish saying whilst they were under communism
We pretend to work,
They pretend to pay us.
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It is said that the difference between socialism and communism is that communists really mean it.
In practice; even socialism doesn’t work without tyranny.
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Socialists take their cut from the top, then spread the remainder around. Communists take their cut, and tell you there wasn’t anything left.
00
If climate change is like the flu, then reducing CO2 is akin to letting blood into a large bucket in the hope that things might get better.
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….and climate change warriors are hypochondriacs
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If Climate Change©®™ is like the flu and, if they profess the science is already settled on the matter, then they know it’ll go away without intervention. I like the analogy of bloodletting though. Let them continue that especially emanating from the first 4 letters of their analogies. They’ll be doing it for nothing.
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Bloodletting yes, but they’re using leaches. Giant leaches!
The UN IPCC
Taxpayer funded “NGOs”
Big Wind subsidy farmers.
Carbon taxing governments.
Bloated climate bureaucracies.
Welfare dependant “climate justice warriors”.
We are going to need a truck load of salt.
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Eco Worrier Stan subscribes to the socialist view of Bipartisanship, that’s when the other side of Politics is “forced” to agree with Stan… Stan let me tell you a little secret “Survey Says” only 10 % of Australians are prepared to pay ANYTHING to defray CO2. 90% of Australians would not pay 1c if they could avoid it. You already LOST in the bipartisan political game as on a bipartisan basis people don’t what your taxes. The only way to get your “Bipartisan” outcome would be to introduce another word, and it’s a big one, but I doubt you will need to look it up… It’s called “Totalitarianism”.
Some people just cant count.
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My guess. Translation: “I have absolutely no idea what I’m talking about, but please, please, please believe me Climate Change is bad stuff.”
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Translation: “I am a Climate Cassandra and everyone else is either blind or belligerent to my clever analogy.”
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Second thoughts, they also identify as a type of Climate Panacea where no matter what level of disagreement is exhibited they will always create a cure.
This of course fits in with the usual God Complex we have observed over the years with true believers.
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It seems that Evan Stamatiou may have confused ‘Climate Flu’ with ‘Climate Phlugiston’!
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… and send me lots of money.
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“I defy anyone to rewrite this next para as one meaningful sentence:
“One obvious explanation is that as Climate Flu remains relatively asymptomatic it also remains convenient to ignore the progressive onset of its symptoms, even deny its very existence. And this bias towards denialism is reinforced by the fact that Climate Flu has become an incredibly inconvenient problem to deal with.”
Huh. Let’s see, maybe this works??
Yeah, they say we are sick, but as CAGFlu isn’t making us feel really sick yet we are ignoring the fact that we are sick, denying it even, and don’t want to be bothered with being sick, so we’ll just go on acting like we aren’t sick at all, because it sucks to be sick.
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Jo:
James Delinpole has an article that is quite complimentary of David Evans here:
http://www.breitbart.com/big-government/2016/08/12/winter-is-coming-warns-the-solar-physicist-the-alarmists-tried-to-silence/
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There is some interesting work being done on ocean circulations that is giving some insight into how circulations lead the measured response in terms of temperature. I suspect this sort of work may provide the actual physics behind David Evans notch delay.
http://indico.ictp.it/event/a14266/session/96/contribution/533/material/slides/0.pdf
The following link looks at rainfall correlations with circulations in both Atlantic and Pacific oceans. There is weak coupling between AMO and ENSO but they have a combined affect with regard to rainfall across the globe:
http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1002/2014GL062451/full
From reading these papers I get the impression that the authors need to acknowledge that AGW is real to get the papers published then they go about providing evidence that questions the sensitivity to additional CO2.
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I note this is from Reneweconomy website that delights in informing all readers they are “Tracking the next industrial revolution”. Hummm, IMO sound more like a crony-capitalism propaganda site.
The give away of this sorry piece in very early on in the first paragraph were facts are overturned in favor of imagined threats…
As for Jo’s quoted paragraph
One obvious explanation is that as Climate Flu remains relatively asymptomatic
This imaginary malady is benign, especially to relatives,
it also remains convenient to ignore the progressive onset of its symptoms, even deny its very existence.
to the point that it is no threat.
And this bias towards denialism is reinforced by the fact that Climate Flu has become an incredibly inconvenient problem to deal with.
Thus dealing with this imagined illness would be a waste of time, effort, and money. The recommended medication is to have a cold beer or three, and get some perspective (prescription only).
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The article is an attempt by a true believer to alarm people who are not concerned. The analogy is designed to trigger fears associated with pandemics, and thereby build pubic support for the activist agenda.
There is a whole other campaign for linking climate fears to health issues, another branch of this [[snip] nonsense].
https://rclutz.wordpress.com/2016/07/10/climate-medicine/
[Editorial discretion applied.] AZ
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Cause fear — the tool of those who can’t make a convincing argument for what they want to do; the last resort of those whose judgment is so impaired by zealotry that they cannot see the forest because there’s a tree right in front of them. And they’re usually standing right up against the ugliest tree in the forest, completely missing the beauty of the rest of it.
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Fear is a tool. To be used by those who wish to control others.
Every terrorist organisation uses this tactic. It’s the point of “terrorism”.
Governments use it to control the population, else the population will do whatever they want (heaven forbid). It makes those in control feel safe.
Health organisation use the tactic to encourage people to buy their product. “At Risk” is nothing but scaremongering. Eat this, avoid that, take these to increase your health, daily requirements of X. It’s all based on fear of health.
Religion has uses variations of this throughout history.
Every aspect of it is simply to “influence others into believing what I believe”, through fear of Y consequence. Sometimes an unstated consequence, and these can be the hardest to debunk.
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So why so much fear about renewable energy?
Why so much fear about the very basic physics that explains why global warming is a real thing?
Why so much fear about the carbon tax, which reduced Australia’s emissions by 3% AND provided funding for business modernisation?
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Craig, that’s the point.
We don’t fear it at all.
Why would you have a fear of something which patently doesn’t work?
Tony.
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It not fear of any sort.
It the utter and complete waste of the tax-payers money, when there are far more important and far more worthwhile and useful things to spend it on.
And basic physics DOES NOT explain why global warming is a real thing.
There has been some regional warming due to El Nino, strong solar cycles and ocean oscillations. These are explained by basic physics
But many parts of the globe have not warmed for a long time…
1. No warming in the UAH satellite record from 1980 to 1998 El Nino
2. No warming between the end of that El Nino in 2001 and the start of the current El Nino at the beginning of 2015.
3. No warming in the southern polar region for the whole 38 years of the satellite record.
4. No warming in the southern ex-tropicals for 20 years.
5. No warming in Australia for 20 years, cooling since 2002
6. No warming in Japan surface data for the last 20 years, No warming from 1950-1990.. zero trend for 40 years
7. No warming in the USA since 2005 when a non-corrupted system was installed, until the beginning of the current El Nino.
8. UAH Global Land shows no warming from 1979 1997, the no warming from 2001 – 2015
9. Iceland essentially the same temperature as in the late 1930s as now, maybe slightly lower
10. Southern Sea temperatures not warming from 1982-2005, then cooling
11. Even UAH NoPol shows no warming this century until the large spike in January 2016.
That is DESPITE a large climb in CO2 levels over those periods.
There IS NO CO2 WARMING effect. That is what the data tells us.
The ONLY real warming has come from El Ninos and ocean circulation effects.
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..
and reductions in cloud cover
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“reductions in cloud cover”
Those are quite probably linked to the ocean circulations, and maybe some solar effects on cloud formation.
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Craig,
There’s no fear of renewables. There’s sincere apprehension that it is a panacea to an ill defined problem. There is disappointment that it is a deceitful political agenda being driven by the UN’s IPCC which is not a scientific body but masquerades as one. Any science in it’s reports is buried deep and often doesnt support the political narrative of the summary.
A carbon tax is unhelpful if it’s only function is to prop up a deceitful political narrative.
Australia’s reduction in energy consumption is partly due to de-industrialization; we don’t make stuff here like we used to, and partly because tax dollars have encouraged investment in otherwise unsustainable schemes that benefit some to the detriment of the rest.
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Craig,
Logical, scientific minded people have no fear of your renewables. They are merely misnamed, they are unreliable, very, very expensive, and for the most part impracticable.
Build your so called ‘renewables’ using just ‘renewable’ energy — I think not.
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It seems wind-turbine are renewable.. every 5-10 years or so, at best.
Solar… just dies and rots to copious amounts of highly toxic chemicals.
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5-7 years between gearbox failures., about $100,000 per gearbox rebuild and replacement.
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“So why so much fear about renewable energy?”
CT, would you buy a car that worked to 20% of its capacity, at intermittent, unreliable times?
And when it did actually work, was uncontrollable?
Its not fear.. is COMMONSENSE..
You should try it at least one day in your life. !!!
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Andy
Another plug for John Prine’s song “Common Sense” as the themesong of the 21st century
Refrain “It don’t make no sense that common sense don’t make no sense no more”
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Craig; your an infrequent drive by sniper, so you’ll probably not read any reply.
“So why so much fear about renewable energy?”
I guess this is a general question, because I didn’t imply any such thing in my statement. Others have already stated, there is no fear of renewable energy, it simply doesn’t work as advertised, therefore we don’t advocate its use. That is not a fear.
“Why so much fear about the very basic physics that explains why global warming is a real thing?”
Basic physics, as you say; there is no such thing. And this concept, being in your mind only, explains no such thing. Some believe global warming is real, some do not. Physics is the study of matter and how matter interacts. Those who wish to be believe global warming is real use “appeal to authority” to try to brow beat others into believing likewise. It might work on some, but not on everyone. “Show me the evidence”, is all we ask.
“Why so much fear about the carbon tax, which reduced Australia’s emissions by 3% AND provided funding for business modernisation?”
Again, there is no fear of carbon tax. It is simply an extra expense on everyone’s wage. An added cost to living for no service or benefit. You might believe it provides funding for business modernisation, I’m more inclined to believe this extra tax goes to internal revenue and is never directed as you believe it is. “Show me the evidence”.
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Greg,
Yes, that too. We are surrounded by fear salesmen. I keep wondering how it could possibly be that I reached my age without all these experts to tell me I’m getting everything wrong and need to change or I might die. The only study I found that had any figures on the benefit of following all the healthy eating guidelines said that I might live anywhere from a couple of months to a couple of years longer. Now let’s consider that the healthy eating regimine would have me eating stuff I don’t like only to get maybe on average an extra year, why would I want to eat unpalatable meals for an extra year?
That study by the way, could have only been conducted by questioning a few hundred people about their eating habits. It couldn’t be double blind because medical ethics would prohibit that as far as I know. Besides which the two study groups would need to be provided with what they ate by the study so it was tightly controlled — every meal every day for how long? So now ask yourself, how many who participated in that study were truthful about everything they ate??
Anecdotal studies do not impress me unless the evidence is very strong, such as the causative effect of smoking on lung and other cancers, emphysema and so-on.
As for dieing, just try getting out of this world alive. I dare you! 😉
20
My brain hurts!
Researchers orbit a muon around an atom, confirm physics is broken
The proton’s charge radius shouldn’t change, and yet it appears to.
The researchers devote a small section of their paper describing this to considering alternative explanations, ones that wouldn’t require modifying the Standard Model.
But all of those are much worse than thinking the new results came about by chance, with probabilities against these alternatives ranging from 44 sigma up to 160 sigma.
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Because the hypothesis of Climate Change flies in the face of established Physics, and the Standard Model, perhaps this article is an amateurish attempt to discredit Physics?
It puts one in mind of a small child putting its fingers in its ears, and shouting, “La, la, la, la, I can’t hear you”.
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Over my deprived of life inanimate ambient temperature corpse!
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RW
And thie deniers don’t make amateurish attempts to discredit the scientific method ?
Classic tactics -cherry picking, irrelevant experts, false accusations and no counter evidence.
312
YAWN !
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Frank,
As far as I am aware, the vast majority of working scientists who regularly visit this site, employ the scientific method in their day to day work. I certainly do, and have done so even prior to the pre-Hansen era.
If you had a well developed ability to make precise observations, as any good scientist should be able to do, then you would have noticed the question mark at the end of my comment. My whole comment was in interrogatory.
Having somebody raise a question over the physical realm, and then argue that physics could act like a contagious disease, was a step to far, since it is that approach, that discredits the scientific method!
So Frank, your knee-jerk reaction has made you look somewhat foolish. It does establish though, that you are definitely here for the sole purpose of causing trouble, and you are not really interested in the science at all. Had you been, you would have realised what was going on.
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I doubt that Fronk has any idea what the “scientific method” is. !!
Its all just mouthy, meaningless words to him.
81
Here’s your opportunity Frank, Please explain the phenomenon and your criticisms, with examples and their sources.
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Noted Frank,
Your comment has been suitably filed.
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Even the host of this blog confirms that the physics behind climate change is real.
CO2 is a greenhouse gas.
It would be really good if you could stop with the boring re-hashing of your anti-science beliefs.
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“It would be really good if you could stop with the boring re-hashing of your anti-science beliefs.
Looking hard in the mirror when saying that, hey CT.
But its all you have , isn’t it.
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Come on CT, use the “blanket” analogy, so we can all have a really good laugh. 🙂
82
Craig,
If you took the trouble to read the blog objectively you would know that water is a “greenhouse gas”(the term is deceptive since they are radiative gasses), it is far more prevalent and is closely coupled to CO2 in the atmosphere. The ability of CO2 to trap heat in the wild is very limited as described by the articles Dr Evans wrote in his series on this site. If this were not the case earth’s history would be very different to what we have since there are documented periods of time when it was very cold and CO2 was a lot higher than now.
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“Greenhouse gas” is actually a very POOR description of CO2.
Yes, it is used in greenhouses to ENHANCE plant growth.
But it has absolutely nothing to do with blocking convection, as a real greenhouse does.
It is actually an absorptive/radiative gas.
But CT and the WHOLE CAGW anti-science cultists, (and many “lukewarmers”), are incapable of labelling it by its real attributes.
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That is a very good observation, Craig.
CO2 is a gas used in high concentrations in greenhouses. It is absorbed through the leaves of plants, and turned into sugars that encourage plant growth. So you are perfectly correct when you say that it is a greenhouse gas.
Also, CO2, in concentration in the human lungs, has a physiological effect of making humans sweat, which is interpreted, psychologically, as being hot.
Please give me one example where I have stated any belief that could be claimed to be anti-science; and explain your evidence.
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“and explain your evidence.”
You do know that you will get absolute silence from CT et al on the point of real eveidence, don’t you !!
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… of course he does. It gives the rest of us more ammunition to throw at the poor kiddies.
All Frank can do is sneer, he’s totally useless and Craig tries too hard to be clever and does’t detect the tautological knots he ties himself up with.
They’r e laugh, they really are.
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Frank, a greenhouse gas is a gas that both absorbs and radiates electromagnetic energy is sub-bands of the infrared (IR) band. This property in no way implies/ensures/guarantees that a greenhouse gas surrounding an object with a source of heat will increase the energy-rate-equilibrium temperature of that object. If it did, vacuum thermos bottles would be a thing of the past replaced by CO2 thermos bottles. Good luck finding, much less buying, a CO2 thermos bottle.
You are, however, right in one regard. Adding CO2 to a greenhouse increases the greenhouse’s yield; adding CO2 to the Earth’s atmosphere increases global crop yield. So in that sense CO2 is also a greenhouse gas. Heaven forbid we should increase crop yields! To even contemplate the resulting apocalypse is beyond imagination.
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Ooops. I meant Craig, not Frank.
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Craig, my daughter, who is a well known PhD Astrophysicist said the same to me – “CO2 is a greenhouse gas, Dad”. I just shook my head and asked her to give me the reference to one paper, just one, that showed beyond doubt that anthropogenic CO2 was the main cause of “climate change”. The conversation stopped right there. You really need to study the real science, Craig, instead of relying on failed models.
30
CO2 is an atmospheric gas, yes. It is a necessary part of our atmosphere, as are other gases. If you wish to un-green the earth, removing CO2 would be a good start.
00
Posted the following comment below Stamatiou’s article. Hopefully it’ll stay there:
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In short, a snake oil salesman who can sell you a for Shame
60
“a cure for Shame” – stuffed that one up.
30
Since the year zero minus some billions.. 😉
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Love it!
10
It seems I can’t spell “health”
30
Perhaps you are allergic to it … ?
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It must be a dose of the flu
60
This kind of nonsense gives me severe gas.
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So I have Climate Flu do I? Well that may explain why I felt so bad yesterday. Or could it have been because I didn’t get enough sleep for the several preceding nights?
Only my doctor can tell. And any pretense by, “Valiant Eco-Worrier, Evan Stamatiou,” isn’t likely to change anything.
Unfortunately these zealots are not moved even by the ridicule we heap upon them. Their minds are made up, by which I mean closed, closed like a bank vault door, unable to be opened even by the correct combination until the time lock decides to allow it. I wish I knew what time that lock was set for. For that matter I don’t know if the timer is still running. It may have broken down before the appointed time and we may never get that lock open short of a case of dynamite.
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I suspect that people like Evan will only notice when their assets are frozen by the next ice age.
BTW: Evan is a UWA Science graduate. Looks like more effluent that didn’t note the institutional imperative of “Seek Wisdom”. He went for the easy money.
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Ah now I understand what they mean by “Mann flu”.
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A warmist, when feeling quite blue,
Presented with climate-change flu,
To a doctor, a skeptic,
Who went near apoplectic,
When the patient blamed more CO2.
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This is repeating myself. But yet another winner, Ruairi! 🙂
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Sadly, not many doctors are skeptics!
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Which is surprising. When arguing against a Warmist, they proudly defend their claims by stating you’re not a climate scientist, so anything you say bears no weight, just like a doctor arguing any other field besides his own.
They (usually celebrities that have no qualifications in anything) then spout that you don’t need to be a climate scientist to see climate change – just look out the window.
The best response is to tell them to change that window into a mirror because it’s the easiest way to spot an idiot.
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Most “doctors” don’t have doctorates. They have double pass bachelor degrees. The correct term is medical practitioners.
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“Sadly, not many doctors are skeptics!
But many skeptics have actual doctorates. 🙂
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Bring it on, red thumbs..
You show me yours, I’ll match them. 😉
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Gaia’s temperature has been a little over the top, but well within natural bounds.
http://www.drroyspencer.com/wp-content/uploads/UAH_LT_1979_thru_July_2016_v6.jpg
At the moment the patient is vulnerable to getting a chill, which could become full blown flu, yet its my considered opinion this won’t end in pneumonia.
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Ten years ago Dr James Lovelock thought Gaia was developing a morbid fever.
‘Billions of us will die; few breeding pairs of people that survive will be in Arctic’
Read more: http://www.climatedepot.com/2014/04/03/green-guru-james-lovelock-on-climate-change-i-dont-think-anybody-really-knows-whats-happening-they-just-guess-lovelock-reverses-himself-on-global-warming/#ixzz4H9lKUZop
A decade later Lovelock admits his diagnosis was wrong and doesn’t have a clue what’s happening. Although not clearly stated the hiatus in temperature must have had a huge impact on his thinking.
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All that means is Lovelock’s credibility is low.
And stop embarrassing yourself with this “hiatus” nonsense. Global warming doesn’t eliminate variability.
Google “going down the up escalator”.
Also, Roy Spencer is not a reliable authority on climate change. He doesn’t pursue original research, he just experiences thought-bubbles and then tries to cobble together some statistics to justify his idea, but does a pretty poor job of it judging by all the mistakes that then need correcting.
He also thinks creationism is more convincing scientifically then evolution.
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“Also, Roy Spencer is not a reliable authority on climate change.”
He is several magnitudes more reliable than you and your sources will EVER be. !!
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Hmm! Just craig thomas is at his usual best, just slagging off another very well regarded skeptic, one who is well regarded across all of climate science and who just happens to be in charge of one of NASA’s satellite analysis divisions.
Nothing of any substance or even of any solid contributions to the discussion at all from our craig thomas.
No science, no discussion, just another slagging off of another skeptic.
Sigh! I guess thats about the best of the cellar level comment contribution to the discussion we will ever get or can expect from craig thomas and Frank.
But it does show very clearly why the whole catastrophic global warming / climate change thing is going down the toilet as far as most of the population are concerned when you have trolls who can’t even troll properly trying to push their own highly inflated and hollow ideology down everybody’s throat at every oppurtunity they think they have.
The public are becoming very sick of it and there is one heck of a lot of sniggering nowadays whenever somebody mentions tongue in cheek, that it must be because of Global Warming or is that his Climate Change that craig thomas can’t even tell us where it is different to “natural climate change”.
It may be news to you craig thomas and Frank but your trolling doesn’t work anymore after a couple of decades of the same old, same old slagging off of skeptics including top level climate scientists just because they don’t agree with your own beliefs which are now closer to some cult beliefs than any science.
As President Lyndon johnson once said which is very applicable to our bunch of trolls ; Pissing down your own leg might make you feel all warm and wet but it doesn’t do anything for anybody else.
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“And stop embarrassing yourself with this “hiatus” nonsense”
You are right.. “plateau” is a much more precise word.
Only broken by a non-CO2 forced El Nino.
Soon to re-establish as an even longer ZERO trend, with a single transient peak in late 2015.
And if the solar guys are correct*, the temperature may not take long to drop right back to the cold period of the 1970’s.
Then, like the South Pole region, there will be a ZERO trend for the whole of the satellite temperature data.
… and the only warming will that which has been fabricated by the data manipulations of GISS, BOM, etc.
* (they are do not class themselves as “climate scientists™”, so there is a very good chance they will be correct.)
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The most important aspect of the hiatus is not whether or not it means anything, but its value in highlighting the cherry-picking habit of the AGW Weather Warriors. Whereas the warriors hyperventilate over two consecutive days of hot summer weather in Melbourne, almost twenty years of no temperature increase (while total emissions increase), apparently means nothing.
This lack of consistency seriously compromises the warriors’ credibility, or what remains of it.
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‘Roy Spencer is not a reliable authority…’
He’s a lukewarmer, so the Denialati accept him as an honest broker.
‘…judging by all the mistakes that then need correcting.’
Years ago he made an error and like any scientist with integrity he fixed it.
‘He also thinks creationism is more convincing scientifically then evolution.’
Darwin is the prevailing paradigm over the deity theory, the earth wasn’t created is seven days, but we may have had a visit a few million years ago from a mob who tinkered with apes.
‘And stop embarrassing yourself …’
Natural variables rule, my client CO2 has no case to answer.
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“Years ago he made an error and like any scientist with integrity he fixed it.”
I wonder if its possible to find ANY “climate scientist™” that has EVER had the “integrity” to admitted to, and corrected, an error.
The usual procedure when they have been found to have made a monumental stuff-up, is to double down and compound the farce !!!
83
“the earth wasn’t created is seven days”
in the life of a God, how long is a “Day” ?
So easy for a biblical mis-interpretation.
If you read it as “created in seven EONS”, and consider evolution as “guided” creationism…
then there is actually no reason to reject either hypothesis.
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My position also AndyG55.
10
Fly
This is really revealing , you’ve got religious people here claiming that scientists aren’t using the scientific method. Speaks volumes about their standards of belief and the company you keep.
[And then we have you to remind us that the religious people make more sense than you do.] AZ
20
I even think there’s something to be said for creationism, although not quite the way it’s presented. On the other hand, evolution also has an appeal to my scientific curiosity. And I will freely admit that I don’t know the origin of anything with sufficient specificity to say, “You must belive this and not that.”
Is there a God, a creator of everything? Or is all that simply human desire to explain the things they see, even when they can’t explain them?
I can see some reasons to believe there could be a God but I don’t know. On that subject I’m as ignorant as all other humans on this planet. The big difference between me and so many others is that I’m not afraid to admit my ignorance.
00
So Craig,
“He also thinks creationism is more convincing scientifically then evolution.”
What is your view on why the universe happened and what it all means? Just to propagate Darwinian theory?
43
“NATURAL global warming doesn’t eliminate NATURAL variability.”
Two feet in your gob again, well done Craig.
Trouble is, there are MANY parts of the globe that show NO WARMING for many years when temperature measurements are not tampered with.
Maybe some regional El Nino atmospheric warming steps due to strong solar cycles, (NON-CO2, ocean cooling events)
Maybe some warming in the NH since 1980 due to the NATURAL ocean oscillations such as the AMO.
But CERTAINLY there has been no GLOBAL warming.
52
addendum…
But CERTAINLY there has been no GLOBAL warming in the satellite era.
And we can give much thanks that there was some warming from the LIA to the 1940’s…
…. otherwise the world would be a much, much harsher place to live in.
We are truly blessed with the relatively benign climate we have been lucky to live through, and getting better all the time up to now.
Let’s all just hope that the sleepy sun doesn’t take the world back to the desperately bleak and dismal times of the LIA. !!
43
“All that means is Lovelock’s credibility is low.”
Name me one “climate scientist™” who’s credibility is NOT basically ZERO !!
(note, the ™ sign, which implies one of the CAGW priesthood)
73
Craig,
Ad hominem attacks are bad enough but for you to conflate science and religion in your criticism reflects poorly on your ability to distinguish between the two and leaves it open to assume you can’t distinguish the two. This brings your character into question regarding critique of either science or theology. You are positing a completely unrelated assertion to buttress your view. A poor show.
51
Yes but oh-so-typical of those who claim to be morally superior to others on the basis of climate change piety…
I’m not sure why any of us expect them to delve into the science, they have ample opportunity and resources to do so, even if it is to build arguments supporting their cause, but instead, they prefer to stick to a belief system.
Who said religion was falling out of favour?
51
“those who claim to be morally superior”
They can claim all they like.. its all from their baseless egos.
…. they are blind to the sewer their so-called morality comes from.
43
Look, they’ve put a medical text through the climate buzz phrase generator.
61
It comes free with every Windows upgrade, along with the climate troll generator tool…….
41
That’s why I stick to using Linux.
20
Ahhh, the Left’s oft-heard plea for ‘bipartisanship’ – the only thing getting in the way is our stubborn, indeed criminal, refusal to agree with them.
90
Fixed.. 😉
50
Remember that while global warming is bogus, the ‘high inflation is near’ crowd is just as reliant on vaporware and truth-by-assertion. Both lack evidence, but are so deep into their beliefs that they cannot relinquish them.
‘High inflation’ is the global warming of conservatives. ‘Peak oil’ used to also be an example of that.
30
As I recall, the ‘peak oil’ nonsense was promulgated by environmentalists, not conservatives. It was used as an argument in favour of alternative energy.
As for hyperinflation, I don’t see governments throwing trillions of taxpayers’ dollars at that particular bogeyman, so who cares what the believers/preppers might think? The problem with AGW is precisely the opposite – whether you believe or not, you’re paying for it through your taxes and various mitigation scams.
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It’s actually not bad, an amazing tacit admission.
In essence we have to imagine Climate Change because there is no evidence, only a feeling that Climate Change is in the background making things like floods slightly worse? This is Sir Paul Nurse’s “Precautionary Principle”, $1 Trillion a year to treat psychosomatic symptoms? This is nearly killing the patient in case they might be terminally ill?
Nurse is neither nurse nor doctor. This is completely unethical.
So here we have it again.
psychosomatic
adjective
1.
(of a physical illness or other condition) caused or aggravated by a mental factor such as internal conflict or stress.
“her doctor was convinced that most of
Edith’sEarth’s problems were psychosomatic”synonyms: (all) in the mind, psychological, irrational, stress-related, stress-induced, subjective, subconscious, unconscious
50
TdeF @ # 16
I think you have the whole of the Reneweconomy article by Evan Stamatiou, summed up there in that comment.
The whole article reeks of an elitist desperation.
By its its style and excessive use of verbiage it has been written for the Climate Change elite and not for consumption by the masses, something I doubt that Evan Stamatiou himself is realising he is doing because he is totally blinded to any other possible and probable future Climate and weather outcomes by his fanatically bigoted Climate Change ideology.
The desperation is there and revealed for all to see if they wish to.
Nothing about the Global Warming / Climate Change meme is working out as it was dsupposed to do.
None of the predictions of an imminent global climate catastrophe from the increase in the CO2 greenhouse gas are clearly visible or have come to pass or can be isolated and measured from the completely normal and highly variable background global climate of the last few hundred thousand years.
In fact any warming effects from the increase in CO2, the dreaded “Carbon” of the scientifically and technically illiterate Climate Change believers has been and still is impossible to disentangle from the ages long completely normal and completely natural variations and shifts in weather and climate that has been part and parcel of this planet’s existence since time began.
All of the climate model based predictions and the predictions of the grand standing “Climate Experts” of an imminent climate catastrophe of some form or another, the choices of predicted castrophes of one sort or another are almost uncountable, have failed to appear in part or in their entirety.
And this after nearly three decades of billions of dollars, untold numbers of scientific, political and green catastrophists all predicting imminent climate disasters and catastrophes.
Plus square kilometres of media spreads promoting dread and a festering climate fear mongering by the media at every level over a past near three decades.
And a goodly part of the ten percent of the worlds electrical energy that is used by the internet and its innumerable attachments being used to promote fear and loathing and hate and threats and persecution of scientists and skeptics including death threats against those who refuse to toe the line of the catastrophic climate change ideology through the electronic media.
None have worked as they should have in the eyes and beliefs of the elites of the climate catastrphe meme so as to ensure the total adoption by the global populace of the Catastrophic Climate Change meme in the corrupt and corrupted ideologically based belief systems of the elitist Evan Stamatiou’s of this world.
There is nothing more here in the Reneweconomy article than a very deep climate elitist desperation being expressed for all to see and comprehend as the believers in the Climate Change cult see it all just slipping away into that deep Black Hole of History where all failed pseudo and dictatorial inclined movements over the past centuries have eventually disappeared for an eternity rarely if ever to to again see the light of day in any future Human History
90
That was quite a temperature the climate ran from 8 to 4 thousand years ago. Of course, there were some very nasty chills as well. (Try running a civilisation with the cold and dehydration of 2200BC.)
Yes, we now have doctors for our climate flu. Unfortunately, as Dame Edna said of Dr Jim Cairns, they’re not make-you-better doctors.
70
The 4.2 ka BP event had a huge impact on the planet’s life forms, particularly human civilisation. From memory the Harrabin in west India came to Australia by boat and bringing new technology they managed to integrate successfully.
20
I’d like to think of it as a phantom pregnancy.
30
Jo
O/T but looks like the CSIRO disease is spreading and others are taking “the science is settled” literally
http://www.smalldeadanimals.com/2016/08/oh-shiny-prime-34.html#comments
and link
20
Link Quote: “And whilst the worst of the symptoms are still decades away …”
Wait. What?
Climate Change Is Already Here, Says Massive Government Report
I see what you did there.
31
Olympic Goal Post Shift UPDATE!
The shift is complete.
September 30, 2009: Olympics-2016 Games could be the last, says Tokyo governor
Aug 13, 2016: A sobering new study shows that by the 2084 Olympics, rising temperatures will make it practically impossible for most cities to host the summer games.
30
heard one of Fairfax’s editors, Greg Callaghan, on ABC Tony Delroy’s “What the Papers Say” last nite, spruiking the following & saying –
(paraphrasing) what the climate deniers don’t realise is the great climate scientist, John Church, is conservative – his predictions have been conservative, blah blah.
very lengthy:
13 Aug: Age: Jo Chandler: John Church and the rising ocean
Described as the “Don Bradman of sea-level science”, John Church’s sacking from the CSIRO left many observers gobsmacked. Can we – Australia and the rest of the planet – really afford to let him go?
Global warming sceptics often claim that climate science is perpetuated by collusion, but the most powerful driver of science is disagreement. Dissent was the impetus for oceanographer John Church, who has spent 36 years with the CSIRO, entering the conversation around future sea levels in the 1990s…
***JOHN COOK VIDEO! 1min22secs: How to debunk myths
Debunking the myths and misinformation surrounding climate change is an important field for scientists, who must be careful not to reinforce the myths…
Sea-level scientists are a fractious bunch; Church’s job for a while now has been to steer them to consensus on the most hard-fought, white-knuckle chapter in the story of the warming Earth…READ ALL FOR PITMAN, MANN, RAHMSTORF ETC.
http://www.theage.com.au/good-weekend/john-church-and-the-rising-ocean-20160722-gqbux5.html
***paraphrasing John Cook’s finale: when you inform people about the scientific consensus, even conservatives … become more accepting of climate change.
30
The the end of the RenewEconomy article
A look at the website suggests that Evan Stamatiou IS Carbon Risk Management and is simply trying to drum up business for himself. But that goes for all the “guest” articles at RenewEconomy – they’re all trying to get their snouts into the climate change trough.
http://www.carbonriskmanagement.com/about-us/
30
From Linkedin:
Evan Stamatiou
Managing Director at Carbon Risk Management
Melbourne, AustraliaRenewables & Environment
Current
Carbon Risk Management
Previous
Independent, Ernst & Young, Net Balance
Education
Academy of European Public Law
About the Academy
Leaders in European Public Law
Founded in 1995, the Academy is the oldest and most esteemed educational establishment of the “European Public Law Organization” (EPLO), and the most representative of its mandate. The EPLO has been entwined with the development of European Public Law, and the emergence of the EU as a new legal order in international law.
The Academy offers study sessions leading to the Intensive International Master of Laws (I.I.LL.M.) in European Public Law or the Certificate of Attendance in European Public Law for those interested in furthering their knowledge and skills on the reasoning and philosophy of the different national public law systems of European countries, as well as the divergences among them.
The study sessions are conducted during the months of August and September on an annual basis at the premises of the EPLO in Athens, Sounion and at the Anargyrios- Korgialenios School in Spetses Island, Greece, and have a 3-week duration.
So an expert then.
50
12 Aug: AP NewsBreak: Jonathan J. Cooper: California may beef up electric vehicle mandate
With the extension of California’s landmark climate change law stalled, a legislative plan is emerging to significantly up the ante on California’s commitment to electric vehicles by requiring that 15 percent of all new automobiles be emission-free within a decade.
Assemblywoman Autumn Burke, D-Los Angeles, told The Associated Press on Friday that she’ll introduce legislation next week to ramp up the pressure on carmakers.
Automakers that fail to sell enough electric vehicles would be required to make payments to rivals that do or pay a fine to the state.
***”If we create more competition in the market, that automatically will trigger a more affordable vehicle,” Burke said in an interview…
Wade Newton, a spokesman for the Alliance of Automobile Manufacturers, characterized the legislation as a giveaway to Tesla Motors…
“Tesla shouldn’t be able to rig the market for their own purposes.”
Tesla did not respond to a request for comment Friday…READ ON
http://bigstory.ap.org/article/f55fb1a80f3b44abb5b907024e4a95c0/apnewsbreak-california-may-beef-electric-vehicle-mandate
20
‘One obvious explanation is that as Climate Flu remains relatively asymptomatic …’
The patient shows no symptoms of flu but it maybe dormant, on the other hand Dr Denialati regards this as nonsense and points to the sun.
30
Earth insists there’s nothing wrong with it and objects to the continual probing of increasingly inaccurate rectal thermometers..
40
Admittedly there has been some curve fitting and data mining to get the desired prognosis, but the hiatus has them in a tizz. They say its an incubation period, which is around 20 years earth time.
My concern, evidence supports the theory that influenza spreads more easily in cold, dry air. By coincidence (but totally unrelated) its claimed cool dry air warms the fastest under CO2 forcing.
20
13 Aug: Economist: Renewable Energy: It’s not easy being green
Even with new reforms, doubts remain about Germany’s energy transition
The main tool in this transition is a policy of subsidising renewable power…
But although green energy is subsidised in most of the EU and America, Germany’s efforts are unusually generous. Consumers pay the price of the subsidies—more than €20 billion ($22 billion) each year—through their electricity bills. Germans pay more for power than all other Europeans except Danes (German industry is exempt from some of the burden).
As a result, Germany’s renewables law has long been in need of reform…
But from next year the fixed sum paid in feed-in tariffs to everyone supplying renewable power will be replaced with auctions in which investors place sealed bids to build new wind or solar farms. Those who offer to do it for the lowest price will win, and only they will be paid for the power they supply…
But problems remain…
While renewables can easily compensate for this missing nuclear capacity on windy and sunny days, other energy sources are needed for the rest…
But electricity accounts for only about 21% of energy consumed in Germany, with the rest used to drive cars and trucks and to heat homes…
Electric vehicles remain more of a marketing dream than reality…
The policy of the Energiewende, says Clemens Fuest of the Ifo Institute, a think-tank in Munich, had three goals…“All three goals will be missed,” he thinks, making Germany’s energy transition “an international example for bad policy”…
http://www.economist.com/news/europe/21704819-even-new-reforms-doubts-remain-about-germanys-energy-transition-its-not-easy-being-green
30
I consider myself rather unlucky in this area; I really do have three hands! The extra one having no arm supporting it unfortunately, but rather, it protrudes from the centre of my back like a fish’s dorsal fin; and then there are the other physical anomalies which accompany the fin, i.e. an additional head and a long scaly tail.
These un-asked-for bonus organs tend to make me feel rather nervous in when I’m out in public really, but on the positive side, since I have two heads, your comment “ I don’t imagine anything” doesn’t apply to me at all, indeed my imaginations are a veritable circus of bizarre mental thrills, and death defying conceptual acrobatics.
Of course it goes without saying that these tragic body metamorphoses are the inevitable result of exposure to ever increasing levels of poisonous atmospheric CO2.
Think about what this means for our children and grandchildren; how many heads, tails and god knows what other superfluous body parts and appendages will they have to drag around with their sorry selves everywhere they go?
30
God is spelt with a capital G.
11
Only if you think it should.
There are many gods.
31
Only one true God.
11
That depends on whether you are a believer or a denier.
For the record, I’m an Agnostic (today)
20
If you were in trench during a war and undergoing an artillery barage, you would have no problem in believing in God.
11
No I wouldn’t. In fact I’d be firmly convinced of the definite non-existence of a deity.
What supposedly “loving” god would allow the people he created to be blown to bits?
30
I’ve been there. No thoughts if a deity though — too busy digging like hell.
30
Thor, Odin, Jesu, Buddah, Airmid, Zeus, Hera, Jehovah, Yahweh, Brahma, Vishnu, Shiva, Aberewa, Ashanti, Allah, Anubis, Isis, Horus, Ra………. ad inf……
All just manifestations of the human imagination.
31
+10
30
I am glad you did not mention my cat. My cat reliably informs me that he is descended from the holy cats of the Egyptian first dynasty, when they were worshipped as gods.
30
Why?
00
That’s what you believe.
I don’t.
10
Len,
Please don’t try and drag religion into this scientific debate.
You’re free to believe whatever you want, but don’t expect to impose it on everyone else. As soon as a thread starts discussing the existence of a god it breaks down into tit-for-tat comments. I’ve just been sucked into this one, and I’m going to quit now.
Let’s just talk science. The sceptics firm grasp of it and the warmists rejection of it.
30
DS,
“Let’s just talk science. The sceptics firm grasp of it and the warmists rejection of it.”
First sentence totally contradicted by the second. You’ve started with the conclusion, put on the blinkers and pretend to be doing science, just like religious theology.
02
Not true, Frank. It is you who has the blinkers on.
You can’t see past the computer models – playing with computers – fiddling with the algorithms to see how scary you can make the press releases.
That is not science, Frank.
Science must be repeatable, science must release all of the data, science must publish the full methodology. In short, science must be auditable by anybody who wants to confirm it for themselves.
If the science cannot be replicated, and audited, then it ain’t science, it is make-believe.
And calling it make-believe is being very generous. I would not like to accuse anybody of doing something that could be thought illegal.
30
Thanks Rereke. I was going to answer Frank, but you’ve said it better than I could
00
I doubt that my response was any better than yours might have been, David.
I only intervened because this is a reasonably old thread, and I wasn’t sure you would see Frank’s comment. He has a tendency to wait until the party has moved on, and then shouts to an empty room, thinking that somehow proves that he has won the arguement. I don’t want Frank to be under the misapprehension that anybody takes him seriously.
00
Rereke,
I’m a chap with far too much time on his hands who returns to old threads.
Still appreciate you sticking it to Frank 🙂
00
good point, well spotted len.
20
Maybe Jo is a Motie
10
Motie?
00
A very small “mote”? A baby “mote”? Someone who travels the world, visiting castles, to look at their moat, and draw a bridge?
00
So obvious, why didn’t I think of it. Thanks for that Rereke
00
hypocrisy? nah…
10 Aug: ThePressEnterprise: Kevin Smith: Report alleges energy companies got favors from state officials
Watchdog group says 26 firms donated nearly $10M to Gov. Jerry Brown, Democratic Party.
Twenty-six energy companies with business before the state donated nearly $10 million to Gov. Jerry Brown and the California Democratic Party over the past eight years — donations that often were made within days or weeks of winning favors.
That’s the contention of “Brown’s Dirty Hands“ a report released Wednesday by the Santaâ Monica-based public interest group Consumer Watchdog…
Those 26 companies included California’s three major investor-owned utilities — Edison International, the parent company of Southern California Edison, Pacific Gas & Electric and Sempra Energy, the parent of Southern California Gas and San Diego Gas & Electric — which collectively contributed nearly $6 million of the more than $9.8 million that was donated.
Liza Tucker, who authored the report, said the information raises “troubling questions about whether quid pro quos are routine for this administration.”…
Evan Westrup, a spokesman for the governor’s office, disputed the information.
***“The governor’s leadership on climate is unmatched — these claims are downright cuckoo,” he said via email…READ ON
http://www.pe.com/articles/report-810282-brown-million.html
PDF: 38 pages: Aug 2016: Consumer Watchdog Report: Brown’s Dirty Hands
by Liza Tucker
http://www.consumerwatchdog.org/resources/BrownsDirtyHands.pdf
20
meant to excerpt the opening line of the Report’s Summary:
Governor Jerry Brown paints himself a foe of climate change. But an exhaustive review of company donations, publicly released emails and documents at PUCPapers.org court filings, and media reports show that fossil fuel and fossil fuel-reliant companies have supported Brown in close proximity to actions that he and his Administration have taken on their behalf…
30
31 Jul: Guardian: Matt Weiser: Can America’s first floating wind farm shake off environmental concerns?
Trident Winds proposes to install 765 megawatts’ worth of giant turbines on buoyant platforms in California, which could power more than 200,000 homes
If built, it will be larger than the 630-megawatt London Array off the coast of Kent, – the world’s largest working offshore wind farm that began operating in 2013…
The country has no offshore wind farms, though a number of projects are in the research phase to determine their profitability. The very first project to come online in the US is under construction off the coast of Rhode Island: the 30-megawatt Block Island wind farm that is expected to begin operating later this year.
Offshore wind development already has taken off in Europe and other parts of the world…
California has some of the world’s toughest coastal development regulations…
“On the one hand, we want to support, in some fashion, renewable energy,” says Sara Aminzadeh, executive director of the environmental group California Coastkeeper Alliance. “On the other hand, we wouldn’t want to support anything that has serious impacts on marine issues. There is so much that is unknown about constructing something like that essentially in the middle of the ocean. So it could be a tough issue for us.”…
Floating foundation design poses multiple technical challenges.
***The structure has to be able to withstand the harsh environment of the choppy ocean and high winds while supporting the weight of the turbines, which can be damaged by the pitching and bouncing motions at sea…
Currently, floating wind energy is much more expensive than fixed offshore wind energy, says Tom Harries, an analyst at Bloomberg New Energy Finance…
The company could line up investors more easily if it could secure a power purchase agreement from a California utility. The agreement typically commits the utility to buy the electricity from the project for 20 to 25 years, making it a guaranteed source of income for investors. Trident has yet to find a buyer for its energy…
A 30-megawatt project in Oregon called WindFloat Pacific, for example, received a $4m Department of Energy grant to assist with planning and design, only to find it couldn’t lure a buyer for its expensive electricity…
Another concern, as with all wind energy projects, is the potential for birds to be killed by the whirring blades…
https://www.theguardian.com/sustainable-business/2016/jul/31/california-wind-farm-energy-trident
***add earthquakes.
20
Climate Change. The Telegraph in the UK
“Long-awaited heatwave sees hottest August day in three years but rest of summer will be rainy, unsettled and cold”
So Climate Change then. Another extreme event as predicted by Tim Flannery based on his computer modelling of kangaroos.
If there is no other news, people talk about the weather. Now it is someone’s fault, as expected rich democratic countries with steady clean power.
40
Colder than Christmas – August temperatures shatter records in Germany – so which two days do we cherry pick – the warmest or the coldest?
10
It’s summer in Europe as you can tell by NOAA’s graphic for last week —
http://www.cpc.ncep.noaa.gov/products/analysis_monitoring/regional_monitoring/wctan1.png
Must be the hottest month evaaahhh!
00
Everyone else should be spelled in capitals, like “Everyone Else”, because these Warmists always believe that Everyone Else should bear the burden for the Warmists beliefs, not themselves. That Guy should be forced to pay a carbon tax. Someone Else should be forced to buy a climate compatible and barely functional A/C and electric car. It’s all about force Other People to practice what the Warmists preach while the Warmists head off in fossil fueled vehicles to attend climate change rallies. They are exempt because they are Spreading Awareness.
50
“Schrodinger’s flu”. Hilarious. Nice turn of a phrase and oh so true.
20
Very appropriate to compare CAGW with pandemics. Remember The Bird Flu hoax and other similar ones each year to keep us all scared. Well that is all CAGW is all about. In a few years we will be worried about human induced ice age again. Can’t believe how gullible a large percentage of the population really are!
20
OT I wonder what will await Malcolm Roberts on Q&A tonight? Oh, I know: constant interruptions, loaded questions, smirks and sneers from our illustrious host and partisan cheering of any rebuttals from other members of the panel by the usual ABC Rent-a Crowd.
00
[…] Or that face your dog makes when you actually ate the last bit of hamburger, like “dude, WTF?” Whichever. Be prepared, as Jo Nova highlights this lately wackadoodleness from the Cult of Climastrology Doctor Nanny State is here to save us from “Climate Flu” […]
00