Bountiful Joy! The Australian Labor Party have discovered the endless free lunch, and they’re going to feed the Nation!
All this time we’ve been wondering how to make the pie bigger, save the world, and live to be 105, and the answer was staring us in the face!
The Diabolical Choice
Box One: Cheap Electricity
Box Two: Same electricity — Costs a lot more!
Labor chooses Box 2!
Why? Look at the benefits:
1) For $11 billion dollars a year you get almost as much electricity (except at night time, early morning, late afternoon, and on cloudy, windless or extra windy days.)
2) You are providing a guaranteed market for a product no one in their right mind would buy! (This is the Labor “free market solution”.)
3) You give people “Hope”! Hope that someday, the people profiting from selling you a product that isn’t very good, will pay for the research to figure out how to make it worth buying!
4) Then whoever that smarty pants country is, will sell this back to us, making even more profit because they own the patents. Good for them. (Who said Australia was just a Quarry?)
5) In the end, remember that only the top 500 “polluters” will pay, and wait for it, if they are a business (what corporation isn’t?) according to the Honorable Combet they will not be affected because the tax is cleverly designed to be “competitively neutral” and quote: “it is not expected that companies will have to absorb the costs” (ie, they’ll all hit the consumers for the bill).
6) Even most consumers won’t have to pay! Only things that move, grow, light, or change temperature will cost more, and 90% of people will get more compensation than they pay. The other 10% (i.e. what’s left of the workforce) will cover all the extra costs of the Tax-on-everything. They’ll also earn the money to pay compensation to 90% of the country.
Thus the entire country can vote to live off 10% of the workers (at least ’til they leave the country*). The efficiency!
Pause for a moment to admire the penetrating insight of this master plan. The acute sagacity!
It’s so obviously the path to wealth, it’s a wonder no country thought of it before?
7) Apart from the economic advantages of paying more for less, the icing on the cake is that you can enjoy what’s left of your wealth, guilt free. You may not be helping feed starving children today, but you know that you might save one in 2100. After all, a foreign committee, with the best scientists Greenpeace could find, say their death is foreseen in the models — and we believe them.
8 ) Australia’s brave action will forestall the 4 degree catastrophic disaster by 6 or 7 minutes. More importantly, it will convince other entities (e.g. USA, India, China) to take up a global trading scheme to buy the same inefficient, expensive products. These countries, respectively larger by 15, 40 and 65 times, have been waiting for the signal that an economic miracle has begun.
9) Thus and verily, many jobs will be created, the Earth will cool 0.0007 degrees, storms will be stilled, the average rainfall will rain, and sea-levels will drop half a millimeter! That glorious perfection will allow the Great Barrier Reef to stretch to Hawaii, spawning a 5,000 mile archipelago to house homeless millions on the new tropical atolls which rise from the sea.
Halleluiah!
NEXT WEEK: How counterfeiting money can make everyone richer.
*Emigrating workers? There are bound to be laws that prevent that.
A new volcano could pose a threat larger than last year’s air-traffic paralysing eruption in Iceland, according to experts.
Seismologists are nervously watching rumblings beneath a much more powerful Icelandic volcano call Katla, which could spew an ash cloud that will make the 2010 eruption look tame by comparison.
Brooding over rugged moss-covered hills on Iceland’s southern edge, Katla is a much bigger beast than the nearby Eyjafjallajokul volcano, which spewed ash all over Europe for several weeks in an eruption that local scientist Pall Einarsson describes nonetheless as ‘small.’
‘It is definitely showing signs of restlessness,’ said Einarsson, a professor of geophysics at the University of Iceland.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/travel/article-2048681/Iceland-volcano-New-eruption-dwarf-2010.html
Shall we scorn the proposals to AVERT volcanic winter???
http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-nvSG3nbwTJU/TikXuPeac1I/AAAAAAAAAvg/gQthSGp13JQ/s1600/volcanic+crater+cap+2.jpg
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I’ve just finished reading Peter Fitzsimons’ “Tobruk”, and it is very hard for me to come to grips with the fact that those blokes who fought there, and died there, along with hundreds of thousands of others in other theatres, have been betrayed by the slimiest bunch of lying swine it has been my misfortune to have observed (thankfully from afar)in a so-called democratic country.
One can only hope that by 2013 enough Aussie voters have seen the light and banish this crowd of mongrels to the political oblivion they so richly deserve.
Rant over 🙂
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Fiji Dave,
Peter F MAY be a good historian (or plagiarist) but he is (and always has been) a Labor luvvin, Gough worshipping leftie!!
Cheers,
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It sickens me that people would write books to make money from that situation.
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Fiji Dave
I appreciate and agree with the comments in your post above and know that the story of Tobruk should be told.
My own post above was off topic and related to personal situation with my father having served in Northern Australia, Torres Straits, New Britain and New Guinea.
He came back but he was damaged in many ways.
As a child I remember watching him pull lumps of dead white skin from his hands and feet and later apply white zinc ointment from a jar given to him by a grateful country.
That’s all he got. He died early. He never complained. I will complain to make up.
Many Japanese died. They all felt they were doing their duty.
I find it hard to watch WW11 movies (and don’t) that depict the war in New Guinea and Pacific.
One particular movie depicted the beheading of Australians in the tropics and I don’t watch such things.
I also find it hard to understand how actors and others associated with depicting in film these very personal tragedies sleep at night.
If the proceeds were given to Legacy it would be understandable, but I don’t think that happens.
Wars are created by Governments and we must regain control over our them and retain the right to question things that happen in public life.
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And Dave whilst outnumbered, outgunned and poorly trained teenagers defended our country on Kokoda we had a steel industry that produced the steel for our armaments industry and defense. The over valued dolllar and high interest rate policies of the worst Labor Government in history closed down the export of steel from this country last week. The carbon dioxide tax will finish it off as a domestic producer by 2015. For the first time in history not only have the rats stayed on the sinking ship but are on the bridge. Rats of a different kind.
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connolly:
The ALP had a policy called the resource super profit tax. It would have slowed mining down, weakened the Australian dollar, lessened pressure on interest rates, and directed resources and skills to other parts of the economy, as well as giving Australians a greater share of the money made from digging up our country.
If you are looking for Labor failures, then the failure to stand up to BHP, Rio, Twiggy, Gina etc was their worst.
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JB from your scenario “BHP, Rio, Twiggy ” were not paying the right tax.
We should find out who was responsible for this and give them a boot up the rear.
Probably was Howard and Costello but it’s funny that Gillard and Brown haven’t just pointed out the inequity and put up the tax, they did something else.
They devised a completely new tax after the initial tax levels had been agreed upon.
I do not want to be seen as an apologist for big business, (merely pointing out discrepancy in “fairness” which is term labour luvies use a lot) but tell us how you would react to this situation:
JB drives into a service station to fill up the tank having noted the advertised price of E10 is $1.40. Fills up, screws the cap on and fronts up to pay, whereupon he is told the price is actually $1.55.
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No argument with that John. But we have the worst of all worlds at the moment. One of the issues that must condemn the ALP and the Greens is disasterous effect of a tax on inputs into the manufacturing industry in an environment of an over-valued dollar, high interest rates and a global economic crisis whilst our main trading competitors run an undervalued currency and nominal carbon pricing policies. Some of the most highly skilled steelworkers in the world went onto the dole this week as Bluescope closed its No. 6 Blast Furnace. And the Marie Antionette of Canberra said “Let them get a green job”. Long memories mate. Long memories.
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maybe so JB,
But….its not a level playing field. Just like nature, someone is always there to fill any void. Since the demand is there, countries like South Africa / Afric will not always be as inacesible not politically unstable as it might be today.
Pretty, say within the next 5-10yrs, all there resources ( far larger than ours) will be available for investors to develop and fill the demand.
Then its all over and too late for Australia. We’d be as hard pressed to compete with the standard of living and wages as we are against India or China.
Sometimes is pays to make hay while the sun is shining.!
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Ah, the RSPT. What a joke that was, Swan couldn’t even get the amount of tax the miners paid right. I doubt he lied, just an economic retard.
The so called ‘mining boom’ will be dead in less than four years time. The Australian miners are moving their capital off shore to Western Africa because of the proposed mining and carbon taxes, cheaper labour is a bonus. None of those pesky reems of red tape to start digging either. I have been told that Nigeria, of all places is the newest hot destination.
Sure, there will be mining in this country, it will be mostly foreign owned to supply the mills and power stations in India and China. They will dig it up and move it offshore, along with the profits to burn and create that lovely CO2 and there is nothing a government can do about that.
Got a big piece of black coal sitting down stairs…I intend to be the last Australian that owns coal.
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During the war, my dad worked at Stewarts & Lloyds, which became tubemakers and is now part of one steel, where instead of making pipes they made shells, I also had two brothers work there, from the sixties till BHP closed in Newcastle and most of the older staff retrenched at tubemakers. At the time all the equipment to make the shells was still on site, just in case. It has been downsized greatly now, a lot of the stock now made in china.
I bet if we ever needed to manufacture our own armaments of war again it will be next to impossible.
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I worked right next door at Rylands now AWI – small world.
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Bob Malloy, I don’t believe we could even clothe an army anymore. The once huge textile industries are mostly gone from the US now.
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Ahhh. Kerching! Now I get it!
Now I understand why they say this can’t be dismantled. It is perpetual motion, and by definition perpetual motion cannot be stopped because it is, well perpetual.
There has to be something in the Canberra water supply. It has been knobbled.
“When you remove the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable, must be the truth”. Sir Arthur Conan Doyle.
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Subsidised perpetual motion, the most efficient.
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Who can you trust ?
You cann’t trust a Capitalist to design a market mechanism, because they’re in it for themselves, while you cann’t trust a Socialist to design a market mechanism because they’re a danger to themselves.
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Either market mechanism will be a socialist mechanism because it will not be a free market mechanism. By definition a market mechanism that has been “designed” can not be free. Any design must have parameters within which it works and these parameters will allways have some advantage built in for a particular group of rent seekers. Also, when the supply of the object of that market, ie CO2, is restricted artifically by a government committe, you have a centrally planned market for electricity gerneration. It doesn’t matter if the rationed number of “objects” can still be bought any sold, the government still controls the production side of the market and it, therefore, can not be free.
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Henry Ergas discusses somewhat similar issues today at The Australian:
http://www.theaustralian.com.au/news/opinion/billions-will-be-wasted-painting-pork-barrel-green/story-e6frg6zo-1226166182020
I wish the man would stop talking so much sense … it is depressing to contemplate the waste that will occur at the hands of the stooges appointed to distribute billions of tax dollars to projects destined to fail.
As he says, if the projects could have turned an economic profit, they would find funding in the usual places. So therefore the CEFC mob will end up investing in uneconomic projects.
This is the definition of inefficient in economics … wasting scarce resources on sub-optimal investments. And before the Jooooolya fanbois jump up and down … yes, I agree, Abbott’s direct action policy is rubbish as well.
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Oh joy of joys.
This revolutionary economic plan could sweep the world.
It’s the inverted pyramid design, where the tip supports the the huge mass above it.
I just pray, however, that I’m not in the 10% tax payer group!
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Hmmm the standing on hands phenomena. I’m not too sure I would like to see the now barking mad (since she got rolled on her Malaysia solution) Julia Gillard inverted. At present I can just bear watching her with pointy end on top but only after I’ve consumed large doses of Stemetil (Prochlorperazine). Maybe the noble 10 percenters could, in the interests of investigating what drives her upside down policies, do it for the rest of us.
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LIGHTS GOING OUT ALL OVER THE WORLD?
Or perhaps just the stupid, deluded Western industrialized countries?
A sign of things to come.
Michigan, USA – local council unable to pay for electricity. 1400 street lights being removed by energy supplier.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EOqgImPHZos
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Ah that must be were all the green jobs are in removing the evil electricity stuff we have around the planet.
These guys are really thinking !!
Say YES to an election now !!
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Right,
So if its not the “Derdy Polluters” that pay, and 90% of households will be overcompensated (for the first year), I guess that means its the remaining 10% of the country who will shoulder the entire burden of this, right?
So these would be the people who are employed by other people (i.e. not the business owners like dick smith or the airhead celebs living in million dollar mansions), no, it will be the highest paid employees for any given year.
You must know some of these people, you know, the people australia doesn’t have enough of because of their skills and experience.
You know like, what wait a minute, they’ve packed up their bags. Wait a minute, don’t go, really, we need you here… You can afford it you capitalist pigs!, stay here… please.
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MadJak,
again, what this highlights is something that the Government is relying upon for us to believe, because people ‘think’ about electricity only in the respect of what they personally consume, eg, in their home.
That residential sector only consumes 38% of all power, Commerce 37% and Industrial 24%, and compensation is only being paid to one area households, that residential Sector.
So while 90% of all households will receive compensation eg 34%, the that means that 66% of the rest will be footing the bill on their own, effectively meaning that all Commerce and all Industrial will be raising their prices to cover the increase in electricity charges, either that or looking for other areas to make savings to pay for it, say, in job losses or the like.
Tony.
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I must correct you, it is “Derdy Polludez”
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I notice the usual “suspects” never argue the $ merits of the CAGW meme..
Funny that.. 🙂
http://www.news.com.au/breaking-news/clive-spash-resigns-from-csiro-after-climate-report-censorship/story-e6frfku0-1225806539742
Perhaps a reply telling us why the CO 2 “trading” coming soon is worth it.
Just kidding..
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The world is changed….
http://fenbeagleblog.wordpress.com/2011/10/09/we-will-roc-you/
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I love it Fen an awesome job. It made my day 🙂
Say YES to an election now !!
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Great art Fen!
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It’s a sad day. The UK refuses to cut its emissions further unless the EU takes action against climate change. The EU refuses to cut its emissions further until the US, China and India take action against climate change. The US, China and India can’t be bothered, and in all that mess one poor little Australia goes off a cliff while no one’s paying attention.
Seriously, what’s up with that?
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I have advised my local Federal member Michelle Rowland – Greenway (2nd most marginal seat in Australia) that I will work tirelessly to REMOVE her from office at the next election!
Whenever that election is held I firmly believe she knows she’s gone.
In the interim she has agreed to carry out my “will” and investigate why my submission on the CO2 tax was deemed “correspondence by the committee (I can’t wait to see the reason – will post on Jo’s blog when/if I get it).
Cheers,
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Im sure the reason given will be less than reasonable.
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I have spoken to many people close to me who believe it would be a “good idea” to tax “Big” companies through the “CO2 pollution” Tax.
These people are all hard working, not too well off, believe that they “will not have to pay” and generally give the impression that they are economically and politically Vulnerable to suggestion.
It is downright scary that basically good, trusting people are being taken for a ride but it explains why we continue to have the “Governments” we do.
A gold mine of gigantic proportions has been created by the unlikely alliance of the Socialist Environmental Green Left with Bankers and Politicians.
They all share in the wealth we have taken many generations to create.
The only way I can see to end this communal blindness is to expose the actual rorting in dollars and cents as recently happens with a large Health associated Union.
The comparison above of the two electricity packages is a start.
We need examples of where and how much money is flowing through the system in ways which would offend the taxpayer before the taxpayer will start to vote defensively to save himself, his family and his country from these predators.
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Mary, if they are not too well off, then their tax cut will more than compensate them for any other cost increases. So they are correct in thinking that they won’t have to pay.
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Ho ho ho!
You actually believe that, then, eh!
Electrical power is consumed in three sectors.
Residential 38%, Commerce 37% and Industrial 24%.
The compensation goes ONLY to householders, and only to some of them.
So while only part of 38% is being compensated, the remainder get no compensation at all.
EVERY Commercial enterprise, every one of them, and all Industry will be putting up the prices of their products to cover the added overhead of increased electricity charges.
A little bit of extra compensation will not cover those increases in everything you buy.
Notice how the compensation is paid. as a cut in income tax for some, meaning their weekly wage rises a tiny bit, and the same for Pensioners, a little bit extra each fortnight.
Pensioners are strapped now, so they WILL NOT be putting aside that extra pittance each fortnight to go towards the electricity bill.
When that electricity bill comes in, at quarterly three month intervals, and the cost of the electricity bill has gone up by around $100, on average, you think pensioners are going to find that extra without cutting back in other areas, say, the food they eat.
And please, don’t tell me people can make substantial cuts in the electricity they use in a residential application, because any cuts will be minimal at the absolute best.
You have to be joking John, seriously. I don’t understand how even you can actually believe that.
Tony.
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Tony I think John might be a example of the dangers of a hole in the ozone layer. 😉
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No, not joking Tony. The compensation planned will see many people better off in real terms – as it should.
But its probably not worth my while to argue it here. I still remember that debacle of a debate about how much the cost of a can of softdrink would go up because of the bubbles of CO2. No sane person would want to revisit the economic illiteracy on display that day.
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Part of me wants to laugh, part of me wants to cry.
In any case, three cheers for onshore processing! Go ALP!
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Tristan
If people really did believe the “CO2 is devil gas” theme they could do something instantly to help the environment.
If every do gooder bought a dozen cans of soft drink and stored them it would prevent huge amounts of CO2 from ever re entering the atmosphere.
Go for it.
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But only for a few years JB then it stops if Labor stays in power. Isn’t that nice of them ?
Say YES to an election now !!
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JB
They are also thinking of their children and grandchildren.
This carbon tax will push up costs of manufacturing in this country and the jobs will reappear in carbon central:
CHINA.
Additionally the green menace has delayed investment in power infrastructure (good excuse for inaction) and so now we face the prospect that in this modern age we will have power rationing HUH and super high power prices. ps Don’t forget that successive state governments has spent the money they were supposed to put aside for construction of power generating plants. In NSW that is LABOUR with a Hard in front of it.
If you’re not sure what I’m talking about look up Iguana and HSU in Google.
Tax cut has already been eaten up by increases in water charges because greens wouldn’t let them build dams and so they Built multi billion dollar white elephant distilled water plants which make pure water to pump back into the ocean??? Was there a skim off here???
We never needed this green menace but it’s a good little earner for those well connected.
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Don’t know about the east Mary, but here in Perth we are glad we have a desal plant, because we need it.
We’ve had a pretty wet winter, but even then, only September actually had above average rainfall. Dams are low, groundwater is being over used, so desal is all we’ve got.
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In your state of WA lies a body of fresh water more than Perth would ever need. Just a pipe line costing less than your Desal and almost nothing to run compared to your CO2 spewing Desal plant. Lake Argyle awaits. The plans from days of yore for more dams would give you ten fold extra. I find it hard to believe that you are so naive, it must be one of three things. 1 You are totally bereft. 2 You have a University education starring in the arts 3 You are deficient the three genes that make for independent thought and thus shall be forever consigned to be a sheep and follow the left mantra.
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I don’t know about you JB but I wouldn’t want to be paying for water desalinated by wind and solar power. I guess it is OK if someone else is subsidising it though. And to a serious Green follower I suppose as long as your personal carbon footprint doesn’t exceed Al Gore’s that is OK too. It is the per capita that counts.
Do you have occasional twinges of conscience?
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Wayne S Job
Was not familiar with the WA water availabilty issue so it’s good to hve feedback that says it like it is.
Large weird public works like desal in Australia fill no obvious need and their construction is puzzling.
I am reminded that in New York one of the most beautiful and impressive Public buildings was erected over an extended period of several decades.
It did provide something for the City but the cost was appalling and it’s was obvious when the dust had settled that the project had been principally instigated as a source of revenue for powerful, Union and Political figures.
Milking the public purse has not gone out of fashion.
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Aren’t pyramid schemes were illegal?
From Wiki (a dubious source but it was the first search hit):
A pyramid scheme is a non-sustainable business model that involves promising participants payment or services, primarily for enrolling other people into the scheme, rather than supplying any real investment or sale of products or services to the public. Pyramid schemes are a form of fraud.
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And I know the first line has a grammatical error – oops!
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“You are providing a guaranteed market for a product no one in their right mind would buy! (This is the Labor “free market solution”.)”
=======
Well said, it is not a market when prices are fixed, it is a racket.
Which draws sharks,leading to a feeding frenzy.
The only question unasked: Is it to big to fail ?
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Gillard has lied and cheated her way into seemingly pulling off the ultimate con job in history at the expense of all Australians.
Life-sustaining plant fertiliser, naturally occurring CO2, is now known as carbon, a deadly runaway catastrophic global warming causing pollutant.
Companies which have given us the standard of living we enjoy have now been demonised by Gillard, Brown and Co., as “derdy polluders” to be reviled and taxed into oblivion.
The plotters have achieved a Socialist Government dream, taxing the air we breathe cheered on by a bunch of scientifically illiterate woolly-headed sycophants begging them to put on a tax.
We have now entered the realms of comic book science fiction where (mad?) scientists can supposedly control climate, weather and temperature. Who would ever have thought that in the 21st century the Australian public could have been dumbed-down to such an extent!
The whole exercise will go down in criminal and scamming how-to-do it text-books as the classic model to be followed, particularly by white-collar criminals.
October 12 2011 goes down as the darkest peace-time day for Australia in my long life-time!
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KeithH (16)
Couldn’t agree with you more. As a kid in the 1950s I did read a comic book story set in 2000. It showed a war, presumably between USA and USSR, where climate was used as weapons. One side would send heavy snow on the other. The other side would respond with hurricanes. As a kid back then it seemed ridiculous that people would even think to control climate either in the short or long term.
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“*Emigrating workers? There are bound to be laws that prevent that.”
Actually, the Greens believe in the free movement of labour, but not of capital! WTF? Surely movement of capital is carbon-neutral, unlike people which consume vast resources traveling to environmental back-slapping junkets. Oh, wait…
The Greens are using the AGW hypothesis-based Carbon Tax/trading as a vehicle to popularize environmental action. The polls say it ain’t working. Morons through and through.
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If you actually live in the US it is already a reality. Although you can physically leave it is now very difficult to take any money out. Also, if you stay a US citizen, you still have to pay US taxes no matter where in the world you live and earn money. The US government also makes it difficult to renounce your citizenship. All of this put together makes it hard to leave.
This is also beginning to happen in Australia. The problem is that the government and the tax office believe that all the money you earn actually belongs to them and they are so generous they will allow you to keep a bit for yourself.
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Welcome to Socialism. Next stop, Communism.
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Joe for a moment there I thought I was revisiting Norman Lindsay’s classic children’s story The Magic Pudding. Suggest you watch out for the Lindsay estate lawyers?
But to be more serious about the Gillard/Brown Free Lunch, could it be that along with most things this government does the law of unintended consequences will prevail. Will the Gillard/Brown carbon dioxide tax at last provide Gillard with a solution to the boat people problem, as we see a mass exodus of out of work, disillusioned Australian refugees take to the boats fleeing our new Green utopia for jobs in China? Jobs building the instruments of our torture, the windmills and solar panels that will be instrumental in turning Australia into a third world country.
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Yes Bob I did hear that Indonesian boats are now coming down empty to pick up Australian refugees.;-)
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Jo, it sounds like an Herbalife infomercial! Where can I sign up for all the goodies?
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You don’t have to sign up Curt Julia has done that for you already.;-)
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You can’t tell by my use of “an” Herbalife infomercial, I’m an American who doesn’t pronounce the “H” in “Herbalife?”
Why can’t I be forced to pay insane carbon fees like everyone else, um, I mean like the good folks of Australia? Why, according to our carbon trading investment companies, if they can just get all our governments to institute mandatory carbon permits, they, the investors, stand to make trillions in profits!!! Note, they’ve redefined “profits,” since they manufacture nothing and have no expenses. What they really mean is trillions in money confiscated from the public and handed over to them because they have friends in high places, who have designated them the owners of all available carbon rights.
Has anyone bothered investigating whether your beloved Julia or her friends and relatives have financial interests in the carbon deal? Why would she risk expulsion and a lifetime of humiliation for betraying her original supporters? Clearly, it can’t be because she thinks she’s saving the world, since we’ve seen that she knows absolutely nothing about carbon dioxide or climate. For her to turn on the overwhelming majority of the country on the basis of fake science doesn’t make sense. However, for her to do so for a future lifetime of extravagant wealth and power does.
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Don’t, for a moment, think that people are not looking …
In Australia, most Politicians and Lawyers have trusts and shell companies and other proxies to hide their “personal” financial position.
Gillard is both a Politician and a Lawyer. It will not be a quick, nor a clean job, but somebody has to do it.
If you want it in US terms, look no further at the “donations” made by American celebrities to the Tides Foundation. That money goes around through several proxies, and finally comes out as “investment” in the celebrity’s latest venture.
The tax avoided by the round trip is considerable, and that is why people like Al Gore do it.
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..Their next move will be to introduce a simplified tax system that follows something like…
1) Add up the income you recieved from all sources.
2) Send it to us.
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THIS IS YOUR FREE LUNCH, and how appropriate.
If I could, might I please politely ask either Joanne or one of the Moderators to actually insert the images here in the post, and I have the links to the images.
This provides us all with an actual, and starkly graphic example of just what we have to look forward to in the ‘Clean Energy Future’, and I’ll explain exactly what the two images show.
This is the link that the images are taken from, and again, it may seem somewhat technical, but it’s relatively easy to understand.
Wind Farm Performance October 13 2011.
Note specifically the date shown for this data, because this is the data for the previous day, the day the Clean Energy legislation passed through The House of Reps.
This is the first image.
http://papundits.files.wordpress.com/2011/10/wind-output.png
The X axis at the bottom shows the time of day from midnight through the day and back to midnight.
The Y axis shows the total output in MW.
Now the total all up Nameplate Capacity for all 24 Wind Power Plants is 2003MW.
The coloured lines at the bottom of the graph are for every one of the 24 Wind Power Plants listed in Australia. The Black line is for the total of all of those 24 added together.
Note how the Maximum Power output for the day was around 720MW and that was at 11PM.
Note how the total stumbles along at around 450MW from Midnight to 8AM and then drops sharply and does not rise above 450MW until 8PM.
The Low point there is just under 100MW. That’s 100MW out of a total of 2003MW, meaning all the wind plants in Australia are running at a 5% Capacity Factor. FIVE PERCENT DELIVERY.
Now this is the second image which shows the total power demand for Australia on that same day.
http://papundits.files.wordpress.com/2011/10/total-demand.png
Again, it’s time on the X axis, and total power in MW for the Y axis.
The coloured lines at the bottom of the graph are each of the 5 States (excluding WA)
The black kine is the total for all those States added together.
Now while scale is compressed somewhat compared to the Wind graph, you’ll notice that the wind power graph goes in the opposite direction.
So while demand rises through the day, wind falls, and when wind is supplying it’s most power, Australia is in bed sound asleep.
Note also that at the pek of the day’s demand, around 10AM to 4PM, wind is providing between 100 and 150MW, which is around 0.4% of the total power.
0.4%
This is the direction that the Australian Government is taking us.
This is their vision for a ‘Clean Energy Future’.
This is where they will be directing Billions of dollars.
This is what we now have to look forward to.
This is actually what needs to be on the front page of every newspaper in the Country.
This is something that ever Labor, Green, and Independent MP who voted for this travesty need to see.
This is something that every Australian needs to see.
THIS IS OUR FREE LUNCH.
Tony.
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Right as usual Tony; the BIG elephant in the room is power shortages; Australia will literally run out of electrical capacity. When it happens the Schadenfreude will be minimal because there will be no power for the non-greens as well; the only satisfaction is in knowing that 99% of the green constituency live in the cities. Their cries of angst after a day or 2 of no power in Sydney or Melbourne will be remarkable.
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Why do I suspect that regardless of the location (EU, AU, US, wherever) the politicians will have diesel backup generators (or some “fossil” fueled backup) to ensure that THEIR power is never interrupted.
It’s everyone else that will be doing without.
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Exactly Robert.
I’ll bet that the huge building known as Parliament House has an UPS, timed to cut in within milliseconds of grid power going down.
Tony.
(UPS – Uninterruptible Power Supply)
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it is not a secret you know
10
But also not widely publicised
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It is true that this Reply feature is limited to depth 4, which stops the infinite nesting of repartee, which is good from a layout perspective.
A hacker can probably find ways around this limit.
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Well a hacker can nest their comment anywhere as long as the WordPress plugin doesn’t check for it and prevent it.
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I’ve no objection to trying to utilize the wind but it is prone to interruptions. How about we use it to pump-store water in the Snowy Mtn Scheme. Okay, there is a significant power loss but at least all the wind gets used and when there is a spike of grid demand we have rapid response hydro.
On a previous thread I incorrectly stated a 15% capacity factor for UK wind. Your 20% was closer to the mark and very close to what my father used in his calculations for wind-power back in the 1980s.
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rereke no reply possible for a.a.a.a.a.a.c or whatever but really why would a building widely publicise its electricity supply regime?
In this case it actually does widely publicise it because it is widely known and not kept secret. I’m not sure that it makes each evenings new bulletin though. Then again, neither do I.
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to be succinct: it is not a secret.
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“”to be succinct: it is not a secret.””
I’m glad you’ve cleared that up.
I was getting worried there for a while.
And it was said so succinctly too.
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Gee Aye
Please see my response at #50.
For some reason it failed to attach here.
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Power shortages. We should get used to that expression. No reason other than government regulation either.
US news: http://www.pennenergy.com/index/power/display/3697558089/articles/pennenergy/power/coal/2011/october/ameren-to_close_two.html?cmpid=EnlDailyPowerOctober52011
So much for 100 years of progress, so long to ever increasing improvements to living. My grand children are screwed and it is BECAUSE of the doo gooders of today claiming to “save the world”.
Idiots really. (no I wasn’t calling john b)
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cohenite,
There’s an interesting thing about this.
Note on that upper diagram showing total output from ALL the wind plants in Australia, that the total output hovered between 150MW down to 100MW from 8AM until around 6PM, for TEN hours.
That’s 24 wind plants, and that equates to 800 separate wind towers.
800 towers.
So, for those ten hours, during which this Legislation was being voted into being in the House of Reps, only 25 of those towers were actually turning.
That’s 25 towers of a total of 800.
Also, for that ten hours, that meant the power that the remainder WERE NOT supplying had to be made up from, yes, you guessed it, CO2 emitting power plants.
Oh the irony, and all this on the same day.
Clean Energy Future my ar$e.
Tony.
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Tony I don’t think you know how this works you need to listen to the.
Green Jobs Answer Man.
I have referred to below to see how the clean energy future works. 🙂
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Tony,
How does Snowtown in SA reach almost 100% capacity factor?
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John, you’re looking in the wrong column.
That figure of 99 is the total nameplate capacity 99MW.
It’s operating at around 37% Capacity Factor.
Tony.
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Tony,
I can see that the table has the low capacity factor but the graph at the top shows close to 100% at times.
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John,
when you unclick all the Wind plants so that just the one is showing, in your case Snowtown, you’ll see that both graphs (total output and Capacity Factor) are the same, naturally.
Yes, for one point in time here and there, where it does approach 100% CF, then every tower on site is turning. However you’ll also see that for some periods of time, every tower is stationary and no power is being generated.
In the case of Snowtown for that same date 13Oct2011, you’ll notice there was zero power generation from 11AM until 9PM.
The daily average for that same day for Snowtown is around 31%
That CF indicated on the ‘Wind Farm Location and Capacity’ chart is the all up yearly average for the plant.
Tony.
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Tony,
There’s no facility here to reply to your latest response. Thanks for your patience.
Betz’ law has 59% maximum efficiency from a wind generator. How does Snowtown, or any of them, reach 100% CF at any time? I’m assuming that the nameplate output power figure is the theoretical max power, not a derated figure to take into account Betz’ Law and other losses.
John
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Succinctly and accurately frames the concerns many of us share Tony!
Of coarse you neglected to mention that the power characteristics of Australia’s wind resources have been very cleverly arranged so that solar power can take up the load during daylight hours.
Also when the sun and the wind aren’t cooperative we will use back-up gas turbines. Power storage will one day be used to store renewable power at times of low demand. Likewise tidal power, solar thermal and geothermal power will one day contribute to our new green grid.
At least that’s the vision – the little detail our green masters in Canberra neglect to mention is that we are unable to convert unpredictable, unreliable renewables into reliable, cost competitive power, not now nor in the foreseeable future.
That Australia’s manufacturing industry relies heavily on cheap reliable power for it’s competitiveness is another little detail that seems to have escaped these mental giants in Canberra.
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this will not end well…
13 Oct: Australia: Annabel Hepworth: Rooftop solar panels overloading electricity grid
THE runaway take-up of rooftop solar panels is undermining the quality of electricity supplies, feeding so much power back into the network that it is stressing the system and causing voltage rises that could damage household devices such as computers and televisions…
One of Australia’s biggest electricity network providers, Ausgrid, yesterday warned that there was a “significant likelihood” that costs would have to rise because of the impact of the solar photovoltaic cells.
In a letter to the NSW pricing regulator, obtained by The Australian, Ausgrid warns that in areas with a high concentration of solar cells, voltage levels can rise and this can have “consequences for appliances and equipment in customers’ homes”. It can also cause solar systems to switch off.
In Queensland, some new applications for rooftop solar systems have been rejected and Energex now urges customers to check that a solar PV system can be installed without threatening the operation of the network.
In Western Australia, Horizon Power has set limits on how much renewable energy can be installed in a system without affecting the power supply…
Mr Hart, who owns EcoSouth Solar Electricity, said areas with a lot of solar panels pushed the voltage up to the maximum allowable level, triggering shutdowns in the individual systems and taking the load off the grid.
He said solar systems “drop out for a few minutes” when voltages get too high, a phenomenon known as “tripping out”…
“If you get a very, very hot night and there’s obviously no solar, the mains voltage is going to drop a lot,” he said. “If your wires aren’t up to it, you’ve got a problem.”.
The network companies say measures such as retrofits and battery storage can stop the “tripping” but can be costly…
http://www.theaustralian.com.au/national-affairs/carbon-plan/rooftop-solar-panels-overloading-electricity-grid/story-fn99tjf2-1226165360822
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Hi Jo,
Wonderful writing. When will my fellow Australians have the opportunity to vote for you and your ideas. We need strong media savvy people like yourself to take up the fight in parliament to preserve our country and our way of life.
There was a story yesterday (and we have been warned for over a decade now) about the baby boomers approaching retirement and whether the new generations will be able to support them with a smaller work force, etc, etc,etc.
A small word of advice for our politicians “STOP SPENDING OUR MONEY ON STUPID IDEAS”. I’ve had enough of being treated like a fool. It’s time we demanded more of our politicians. I have never voted anything but Coalition all my life and to this time have been quite impressed with Tony Abbott but they too need to be on notice that the days of wanky new age ideas proposed by our social elite( Universities, think tanks & green ratbags)is over. Tell Malcolm Turnbull to join the greens or labor party and be done with it.
Get angry people and berate a politician today.
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We are always being told that taxing fossil fuel power will make it more efficient. So how about applying the same pronciple to renewable power generation.
If we want to make wind and solar power generation more efficient we should tax them rather than subsidize them.
Funny how this idea never gets promoted by the alarmists…
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Can we tax politicians to make them more efficient?
Can we at least try it? PLEASE???
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Maybe our politicians should be paid a percentage of the surplus?
No Surplus, no paypacket mate.
If the bonus reaches a certain amount, then the taxpayers who have paid the most tax get a refund bonus?
The poor sucker who pays the most in income tax for that financial year should get rent for at kirabilli house for the year too.
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Now I get it.
The way to get manufacturing businesses going is to tax them more heavily.
From the World’s Greatest Treasurer and his merry band of treasury bureaucrats:
If the carbon (sic) tax does that then why not double it?
Free lunches for all!
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And the people came to Al-Gore, and they did ask him thus: “Al-Gore, we are much troubled. For we work in the fields with our goats and sheep and, yea, our asses, but there is a wicked man that preyeth on us, and takes tithes from us, saying that we owest the tithe to Gaia. Canst thou help us in our misery, O Al-Gore?”
And Al-Gore was much vexed with the people that they did approach him, and he waxed wroth and spake to the people thus: “O ye that are wretched and knowest not the power of Gaia! Thou shalt perish, and thy goats and sheepand, yea, thy asses also, if thou dost not recognise the power that is Gaia, and pay thy tithes accordingly. For I have invested heavily in Gaia-related stocks and I don’t want them going down the gurgler, ok?”
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14 Oct: Stock & Land: Brendan Lau: Will forests sink carbon profits
SOME of Australia’s biggest carbon emitters are expected to take up contracts on forestry projects worth hundreds of millions of dollars once the carbon tax comes into law.
These projects are designed to offset carbon liabilities under the new trading scheme and oil and gas majors, such as Origin Energy and BP, have bought contract options on these projects in the past few years in anticipation of the new law, reports The Australian Financial Review…
“Australia’s carbon market will expand by 500 times overnight,” CO2 Group chief executive Andrew Grant said. “The legislation is worth billions, not millions, to the industry.”
The expected ramp-up in investment of carbon programs comes on top of the millions already spent by Australia’s largest resource companies. Woodside Petroleum has poured $100 million into carbon solutions for its Pluto project and planted 20 million trees, while BHP Billiton has committed to spend $US325 million on technologies to lower greenhouse emissions from its operations.
Origin Energy holds a $30 million option and BP a $10 million option with Carbon Conscious relating to a large-scale plantation of Mallee Eucalypt trees on less viable agricultural land in the wheat-belt regions of Australia…
Shares in CO2 jumped 8.1 per cent yesterday to 20¢. Carbon Conscious has risen some 30 per cent this week to a near two-year high of 40¢…
Under the new proposed scheme, credits generated from forestry projects can contribute only up to 5 per cent of a carbon emitter’s liability for the first three years. This means such solutions will be only a relatively small part of a portfolio of carbon offset projects for the next few years…
***However, CO2 and Carbon Conscious could struggle to entice institutional investors onto their share registers. Fund managers expressed reservations about the business model, and it had little to do with the dour perception of all forestry projects following the collapse of managed investment schemes during the financial crisis.
The head of contrarian investment fund Orbis Australia, Simon Marais, is unimpressed with the industry.
“If you look at Europe, the big winners of the carbon tax were actually the polluters,” he said. “All they had to do is to change their business practices a little bit to emit less carbon and suddenly they had a credit – it’s completely counter-intuitive.”
http://sl.farmonline.com.au/news/nationalrural/forestry/general/will-forests-sink-carbon-profits/2324103.aspx
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A recent report on Wattsupwiththat showed forests were taking up 50% more CO2 than previously predicted (gotta love those models).
Will this lower the carbon credits needed to offset production ‘pollution’?
What figures were used in the treasury modelling for tree size/type/etc vs CO2e. Will they be amended as research changes the tree CO2 take-up rate? Probably not.
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Just ask David Evans, since that was his department (literally) for several years.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rTUDWy6T050
At 50% it may be worth changing the models, but at 10% it would pointless because the models of 2007 were never more accurate than 10% versus the measured carbon sinking rates, so are practically unverifiable to less than 10%.
Again this is not where debate should be. There is no sense in worrying about the carbon accounting models because until the real effects of CO2 are better understood we may not need carbon accounting models to solve any real problem.
But of course the science is settled because the politicians said so. (!?!)
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14 Oct: Canberra Times: Peter Jean: Boom time: PM&C staff pass 1000 mark
The massive expansion of the Department of Prime Minister and Cabinet is continuing, with the number of staff employed by the central agency passing the 1000 mark.
The department’s annual report, which was tabled in Parliament yesterday, revealed that it had 1090 full-time, part-time and non-ongoing staff at the end of June.
In 2002-03, the Prime Minister’s department had 347 staff which rose to 655 by 2009-10.
The explosion in employee numbers has led to former meeting rooms at the department’s Barton headquarters being converted into work spaces.
The transfer of the Office of Arts, which includes 57 National Portrait Gallery staff, into the department, is responsible for 259 of the extra positions…
The Government also tabled yesterday the annual report of NBN Co, the body responsible for the construction of the National Broadband Network.
The government-owned company generated an operating loss of $323 million last financial year and had no operational revenues. It spent $161 million on legal technical advice-related expenses, $119 million on salaries and other employee-related expenses and $37 million on IT and facilities expenses.
Chief executive Mike Quigley’s remuneration package exceeded $1.9 million, up from $1.8 million the previous year…
The network has already been rolled out to more than 18,000 premises with 3000 homes in Gungahlin to be connected by the end of next year…
http://www.canberratimes.com.au/news/national/national/general/boom-time-pmc-staff-pass-1000-mark/2323700.aspx
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Envex: Carbon Trading Jargon and Acronyms
Carbon trading and environmental markets in general are rich with acronyms. This page provides a listing of key terms.
http://www.envex.com.au/glossary.htm
Wikipedia: Envex
The company was founded in February 2008 as a joint venture between Macquarie Group Limited and the Financial and Energy Exchange. In July of the same year Climate Exchange PLC, owner of the European Climate Exchange and the Chicago Climate Exchange, acquired a 25% stake in Envex.
The core focus of Envex’s work is to develop tradable contracts for Over-the-Counter and Exchange based trading to “enable trading in a range of environmental products” in the Australian markets. These include financial instruments related to the underlying units of the Mandatory Renewable Energy Target scheme, the Australian Emissions Trading Scheme ( also known as the Carbon Pollution Reduction Scheme) and the New South Wales Greenhouse Gas Abatement Scheme.
***Bob Carr, Non Executive Chairman, former Premier of New South Wales
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Envex
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http://www.sunshinecoastdaily.com.au/story/2011/10/14/carbon-tax-offsets-available/
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If you were wondering how Bob and Julia’s new clean energy future was going to work well here is the answer from.
Green Jobs Answer Man
10
rukidding,
a little earlier on I came across this absolutely fabulous new proposal that can be relatively adaptable for the generation of electrical power.
Luckily, the people proposing this wonderful new proposal made a short video explaining the operation.
Now, this really is something that Labor might sink our money into for a ‘Clean Energy Future’.
The Turbo Encabulator
Something like this actually makes me excited.
Tony.
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Tony can you keep it under your hat for a couple of days I know a bloke who is going to have $10 billion to spend shortly I am sure he will be interested along with his sidekick Wonder Girl. 🙂
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Er, not letting on, but would his name be, er, a colour, and his first name perhaps Bob.
Just guessing though.
Oh! Please don’t show him this.
I can just see him and Christine right now in my mind’s eye holding a special Press Conference, saying.
We have great news for Australia.
Tony.
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want a new career? become a “carbon specialist”…
14 Oct: Sunshine Coast Daily: Carbon tax offsets available
Carbon specialist and BDO partner Dylan Byrne said the Emission-Intensive Trade-Exposed (EITE) assistance program could potentially save some companies hundreds of thousands of dollars each year…
“Many smaller manufacturers don’t know that they can actually benefit from the carbon plan by receiving free permits or partial-exemption certificates (or PECS) which can be redeemed with electricity generators as part of the Renewable Energy Target scheme.
FOR EXAMPLE: A company with 26,000 tonnes in emissions has the potential to offset their carbon liability by as much as $565,000 in 2012/13, courtesy of free carbon permits, as well as a reduced electricity cost via the redemption of PECS.
The EITE assistance program is aimed at businesses that undertake activities that are emissions-intensive and trade-exposed (EITE activities) and are therefore constrained in their ability to pass on carbon costs.
Mr Byrne said , in order to take advantage of the scheme, businesses needed to provide data to the Department of Climate Change on their emissions and revenue, and provide evidence of their trade exposed status and EITE activity.
“All required activities are covered by an audit process, which has to be signed off by a registered company auditor in conjunction with environmental scientists and engineers,” Mr Byrne said.
“While this might seem like a lengthy – and costly – process, many companies have the potential to recoup these costs quickly through the savings generated.”…
http://www.sunshinecoastdaily.com.au/story/2011/10/14/carbon-tax-offsets-available/
BDO: Dylan Byrne
http://www.bdo.com.au/people/dylan-byrne
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What the boneheads don’t seem to understand is that all Australian industry is Emission-Intensive Trade-Exposed (EITE)
You are either exposed because you are exporting to a country that does not have a tax
OR
You are exposed because you are competing against imports from countries that do not have a tax.
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Remember remember
the 12th of October
and the Treason of the Carbon Tax plot.
It was only by Unreason
that the carbon tax Treason
could ever have been begot.
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I’m sure you can organise a gunpowder plot by Nov 5th. It will help you to know that there are even several cavernous sub floor cavities (exposing some very interesting geology)under parliament house.
10
I am sure you will feel proud to go down in history as being the original instigator of an act of terrorism and treason against her Majesty’s loyal Australian Government.
10
One of our energy suppliers, Origin, announced it would look into planting massive amounts of eucalyptus trees in the wheat belt areas of the Darling Downs.
These farming areas have been the scene of recent demonstrations against gas seam mining or underground coal mines. The cry has been we need the wheat cropping areas for obvious reasons.
But if they are covered by forests of trees for carbon credits, whatever, then the wheat growing areas will certainly be ruined.
It’s ironic that these areas were cleared by OUR grandparents thinking of US, their grandchildren. Now, we are told to grow trees for our grandchildren. But I doubt they will be very grateful.
10
Good, the comment # numbers are back for my Firefox 7.
Maybe the result of site maintenance, or a sizable Microsoft update to XP in recent days?
10
We are all pleased for you, Bob. 🙂
The question now, is can you get the back-numbers?
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The answer is yes Rereke. At least as far as I have gone back – not that I would want to live in the past mind you.
But I know there were others who had this particular issue that’s why I commented. 🙂
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Well it seems I can still wind up Jack the Insider – those that have followed my postings over the last year or two know I had a run in with him over climate science, and he got downright rude. Well today was no different. After a hopeless attempt at humour this was the exchange this afternoon:
Source: http://blogs.theaustralian.news.com.au/jacktheinsider/index.php
I wrote (page 4 of the responses):
His considered response:
I guess some people can’t handle thr truth…
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Well done mate.
10
Jack TI is your essential, Aussie lefty pisswit. Scanning through his responses he told the blog that the women in his house got a bit upset by the protester who used colourful language to describe the PM. Which makes JTI your essential, hen pecked, Aussie lefty pisswit.
10
Just to round off the blog I added this as a parting comment – I doubt it will see the light of day:
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For those of you wanting a further look at the ‘Clean Energy Future’, I have analysis of one of the most recent Wind Plant proposals, that being Macarthur Wind, in South Western Victoria.
The ABC’s 7.30 ran a report on the project on the same night the legislation passed through the Reps, and gee, wasn’t it lucky that story was scheduled for the same night.
The main thrust of the article concerned the Merino sheep in the area, and as important as that, and some of the health concerns that were raised are, what needs to be concentrated on here is that these plants just fail to deliver power on the scale required, and for the time required.
Again, all looks rosy at the Home site for a proposal like this, but once ‘translated’ from the clever way the data is presented, an entirely different perspective is seen.
Australia’s Clean Energy Future – Well, No! – Macarthur Wind
Tony.
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Tony
Smart meters – are these being deployed in Australia to replace the existing meters? These are being rolled out in the US, and given the passing of the CO2 legislation, I start wondering what hidden surprises are in the deluge of acts and regulations – Barnaby Joyce has noted some interesting penalties in one of his Senate speeches. My interest is that I suspect Gillard and the ALP/Greens are setting a new economic system based on exchanging energy units between buyers and sellers, rather than money, a modern version of the discredited Technocracy Movement in the US during the 1930’s, formed to try to solve the economic disaster of the Great Depression.
The idea is to regulate our energy usage autonomously via smart meters and to create a new money system based on emission permits instead of fiat money.
I might be jumping ahead of most on this but I never accepted the view that the Carbon Tax regime was about mitigating climate. Rather I sensed it was about wealth redistribution but I could not pin down the how until I learned about the Technocracy Movement.
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Tony I hope the 1.7 million tonnes can be verified seeing how they will be getting REC’s(Renewable Energy Credits) to that value.
I mean if they were out by say 0.1 of a million that is 100,000 tonnes at $23 per tonne is $2.3 million not exactly pocket money.
Also when I had the government offered solar system put on my roof I had to sign the REC’s away to Origin energy as part of the deal so they will be sitting on a whole heap of REC’s from that.The thing I want to know is will they be sending someone round each year to see how much renewable energy I have created.Also I have already had to have the inverter replaced inside 2 years what happens if the next one goes and I have to pay for its replacement unless someone else pays I will just be shutting the thing down.
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John Brookes, aka Cargo Cult. October 14, 2011 at 11:16 am The ALP had a policy called the resource super profit tax.
Brookesie, you are another who fails to realise that a lot of Australian mineral wealth was unknown until a quite small number of people put their money into exploration, something of a gamble. Those who succeeded deserved a return.
Those who never helped to find new minerals deserve nothing additional from mining, expecially a super tax. They remind me of odd types who hang around gambling joints hoping to con or to knife a winner. A long lasting problem for the Australian mining industry has been UNIONS, who hang around with their hands out and threaten to cut throats unless. Now, we have a Fed Parl that is full of such hangers-on. If you want so see what I had to counter, refresh your history with the deplorable words of Bob Hawke, who was so deluded that he believed this cargo cult trash. Like you seem to.
http://www.geoffstuff.com/Hawke%20Fabian.pdf
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Geoff
Thanks for linking Hawke’s 1984 address to the Australian Fabians. Clearly the Fabian goal is to implement socialism gradually, making sure that the majority support it, ostensibly by making them dependent on welfare coupled with brainwashing in the compulsory education system, thus making it exquisitely democratic. (I’m no supporter of democracy, by the way, as dictatorship of the majority is no better than that of the minority – instead I am a republican).
I came across a list of Australian Fabians and was interested in seeing that Hugh Morgan and Sir Arvi Parbo, among others including John Howard, were (allegedly) Fabians.
I also note a strong reluctance by the conservative journalists to use the word Fabian in their op-eds and columns. As Hawke pointed out, the Fabians have no explicit dogma by which they might be classed, so I suppose it would be difficult to write about the Fabian connection when they, as a group, have no policies per se but a general mood in that they adopt useful policies if, and only when, the electorate are supportive.
We live in interesting times.
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9/11 is America’s date to remember, 10/12 is ours.
10
http://www.pakalertpress.com/2011/10/13/buckle-up-america-is-getting-very-angry-and-the-protests-are-going-to-become-much-more-frightening/
“Meanwhile those that control both political parties are enjoying the view”
“……The scary thing is that the vast majority of our population now lives in tightly congested urban areas. That makes the potential for mass rioting and civil unrest much greater. Back in 1910, 72 percent of Americans lived in rural areas. Today, only 16 percent of Americans live in rural areas. So what happens when you have millions of incredibly angry people crammed into tightly congested metropolitan areas? Well, we are about to find out.
Over the past 4 years, we have seen some unprecedented things happen in America. First we witnessed the rise of the Tea Party movement. Initially it pretty much was a true grassroots movement but now it has been mostly taken over by establishment Republicans. Now we are witnessing the rise of Occupy Wall Street. While there are some grassroots elements to it, the reality is that Occupy Wall Street seems to be pretty much controlled by the Democrats. In fact, one individual was recently told that “Ron Paul signs are not welcome here” at a recent protest.
So we have the left and the right fighting with each other like cats and dogs. The Tea Party movement and Occupy Wall Street both pretty much hate each other.
Meanwhile, those that control both political parties are enjoying the view….”
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Occupy Wall St (OWS) doesnt seem to exist on Yahoo7
moronnews..Even then its again been hijacked by Obamaists and others.
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If it wishes to, this government can attempt to run its full term. But it has to be understood that every MP who voted for the carbon dioxide tax is a dead man/woman walking without a future in politics. This government is dead, dead, dead. It cannot recover; gimmicks like the return of Kevin Rudd won’t cut it. I think it is still possible that this government’s primary vote will breach 20% on the way down. Julia Gillard and Bob Brown are hated by all but the lunatic fringe in this country; they have set out to destroy two centuries’ work in building this nation. They will be remembered the way we remember Sir John Kerr. The vast human population of Australia is extremely angry about being treated like fools by an arrogant, foolish, self-appointed cabal of knowalls who misappropriated political power that was never theirs. There will be no dead cat bounce. There will be no forgiveness.
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This really is what will knock this government off. Rudd and Gillard and their unionist buddies in this government are out of touch with reality. What is at stake is the strength of Australia’s economy.
Gillard is an out of her depth, ignoramus who is now behaving like a jilted little school girl, because her Refugee policy got cut off at the knees whilst she is in the process of vandalising our economy . Simlarly Rudd is prancing on the world stage as though he is a great international statesman. Both are self centred nobodies who, whether they know it or not, are in the process of selling out the majority of Australians and their children’s living standards by their blind acceptance of the UN climate change scam and the UN Agenda 21.
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seems Jo tapped into our pent-up anger today. i’ve been wondering whatever happened to the australian spirit. how did we allow the govt to pass legislation to allow trading in the air we breathe. it doesn’t seem possible.
i’ve never voted for the Coalition in my life but, if i hear the following and the like daily between now and the election, i might vote for abbott (tho not necessarily the entire Coalition, as they played a part in this crime against humanity):
14 Oct: Australian: Ben Packham: Tony Abbott tells companies not to buy into the carbon tax scheme
Adding to the uncertainty surrounding the tax, the Opposition Leader said firms purchasing emissions permits should do so in the knowledge the scheme would be shut down if the Coalition won the next election.
“We will repeal this legislation. We will dismantle the bureaucracies it has spawned,” Mr Abbott told a Menzies Research Centre tax roundtable in Sydney.
“And we give businesses fair warning not buy forward permits under a tax regime that will be closed down.”…
Climate Change Minister Greg Combet said the Coalition would trample on firms’ property rights.
“Business needs certainty over carbon pricing to underpin investments in the clean energy sources of the future,” his spokesman said…
http://www.theaustralian.com.au/national-affairs/carbon-plan/tony-abbott-tells-companies-not-to-buy-into-the-carbon-tax-scheme/story-fn99tjf2-1226166905772
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Hi pat… I may be the only one who thinks this but… I can’t read your posts easily because you don’t put a line space between paragraphs. Your posts are a big block of text which is very difficult to read and very easy to pass over.
Can you space out your posts for easier reading please?
Maybe others have an opinion on how to format posts but that is my opinion.
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Poor eyesight foe not help
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This recent Dutch report by professional engineers concludes that windmills result in more CP2 output than for the same electricity generated by the standby plant: http://www.clepair.net/windSchiphol.html
Basically, the windmills are a dead loss. And as there’s no net detectable CO2-AGW, there’s no better way than to use fossil and nuclear.
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If the Dutch write about windmills, you gotta listen!
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Very interesting Spartacusisfree.So because the wind farm will receive REC’s(Renewable Energy Credits) that they can sell to CO2 emitting power plants we could get to the situation were the Co2 emitting power plants have to buy REC’s off the wind farms to cover for the CO2 they have to emitt because the wind farms are intermittent.
Sounds fair to me. 🙂
Tell me this is just a nightmare and I will wake up.
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Do the words “get stuffed” appear in the Labor dictionary.
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Here is a downloadable transcript of and interview with Joe Hockey (Federal Liberal member for North Sydney) saying that the Liberals will remove the Carbon Tax (among other things). Worth a read.
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Reminds me of Weird Al Yankovics Spatula City.
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Great move from Tony Abbott – this guy knows how to play the game !!
http://www.theaustralian.com.au/national-affairs/carbon-plan/tony-abbott-tells-companies-not-to-buy-into-the-carbon-tax-scheme/story-fn99tjf2-1226166905772
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Yep! There’s a free lunch alright. But only till you run out of someone else’s money.
Who said that? Well not quite that exactly…
Was it not Margaret Thatcher?
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I wonder how Julia would handle this problem –
China dust storm hits East Asia
The dust picks up toxins as it passes over Chinese factories
Yellow dust storm
A huge cloud of choking dust is passing over South Korea as the first sand storm of the year blows in from China.
South Korea has ordered schools to close and drivers in south-west Japan have been warned about low visibility from the dust clouds.
Every spring brings “yellow dust” storms which blow sand from China’s Gobi Desert over the Koreas and Japan.
The dust storms have become more deadly each year as they pass over China’s industrial zones picking up toxins.
South Korea blames dozens of deaths every year on the storms, mostly of elderly people and those with respiratory problems.
South Korean authorities advised parents to keep younger children at home to avoid the dust.
“We have advised the closure because kindergarten, primary school students have weaker immune systems,” Min Eyu-gi, an education official in the southern city of Busan, told Reuters news agency.
Seasonal winds lasting from late February to April or May combine with dry winter weather to pick up millions of tonnes of sand from China’s northern deserts.
The storms turn the sky a yellow colour and coat everything in a layer of fine dust.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/asia-pacific/7274718.stm
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Gee Aye #21.1.1.1.7
Let me see if I understand you correctly? Is it publicised because it is widely known? Or is it widely known because it is publicised?
If it is publicised, where is the publication? If there is no publication, by your logic, how can it be known. Or is it the fact that it is not secret that makes it known? Do people stop knowing things if they are made secret?
You seem to be a bit confused about this.
Perhaps a better question is, “How could a building widely publicise …”
Although I do quite like the idea of a building publishing something, even if it is a slight stretch of the imagination – buildings always seem to be so inanimate. Of course, there are always “publishing houses” …
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Hi Rereke Whakaaro you raise an interesting point:
“”Although I do quite like the idea of a building publishing something, even if it is a slight stretch of the imagination – buildings always seem to be so inanimate. “”
Just wondering how the information output of a building could be peer reviewed by another building.
No doubt the IPCC would have an answer since it is the font of all knowledge on peer review.
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That raises an interesting possibility:
Does the information output of a building increase Anthropomorphic Climate Change, and if so, by how much?
We should get together and apply for funding to research this very important question. We do not even know how many buildings UN agencies occupy, world wide. We can surmise that the number would be significant, but I bet nobody has done that particular piece of research before.
Of course, it would not be easy research to undertake, what with the need for travel, and all. But I am sufficiently stoic to give it a shot. Are you with me?
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This is a superp idea. I think you may have discovered a new UHI – the UN Heat Island effect. The Internet runs on electricity, as does all the computers connected to it. Number of watts of power going into the routers and data centres must equal the amount of heat coming out in watts. Of course with billions of dollars in carbon taxes at stake it would not be sufficient to make a ballpark estimate using 200W per client plus 50% for data centre air conditioning for 1 million UN computers plus 50W per router for 80,000 Internet nodes.
No, we must make site visits to every Internet routing point which is “significant” for its contribution to the UHI. Of course to save taxpayer money we should visit only a “significant subset sample” of the nodes, to be selected by perfectly scientific reasons of course. You see the significance of the UHI can only be proven if it is not being offset in reality by adjacent cooling effects. Since beaches have a high albedo and alcohol is a volatile substance that evaporates at room temperature thereby cooling its former container, it is straightforward to conclude that our site visits should minimise the required research budget by only addressing UN sites located in areas of warm beaches and cheap alcohol.
The grant application practically writes itself.
Your innovation did not end there, as you have skipped past Anthropogenic Climate Change and arrived at the subtly different name Anthropomorphic Climate Change. This is a huge leap forward in understanding global warming since it correctly names the alleged problem as being a human-shaped change in climate via an alleged industrial causation. You have only now made me realise that the modern term “anthropogenic” is a complete misnomer for global warming that is disjoint with the original meaning of the root words. Just as “hydrogen” is a substance which can produce water, and a “mutagen” is a substance which produces mutations, “anthropogenic” would be any process that produces humans, such as sex for example. Expanding on that example, if you are in the middle of making love to your lady and the phone rings and kills the mood, that is an anthropogenic climate change.
In the global warming context then, “anthropogenic climate change” is actually completely literally true since it attributes human activity to climate change, meaning that human activity is a result of climate change. This seems to be true given the historical co-incidence between warm global temperatures and the rise of the Minoan civilisation, the Roman empire, the post-medieval enlightenment, and of course the industry of the 20th century.
It may be that this Orwellian inversion of English has been at the foundation of the global warming scare campaign since 1988.
Also, whilst we are on the topic of new words, we now have a new word to describe our present government. I think it needs more thumbs up, hint hint.
Given the shadowy influence and questionable motives of green left politics in CAGW, we may be better off describing both Ice Ages and the modern global warming catastrophe as “misanthropic climate change”.
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Well Andrew that was brilliant.
Satire with a point; the UN is a big user of ELECTRICITY and therefore has a gigantic CO2 FOOTPRINT even if they don’t pay for it themselves but rely on donations ( or should that be extortions).
UN is a giant ineffective parasite.
And I now have a new word to use “cryptoecotheocracy”” and am now totally confused about which was the original “”anthropogenic” or “anthropomorphic “.
I think it was the first.
Aims is to move this type of awareness (waste and graft) into the public domain.
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Well done, Andrew. I am always pleased when somebody picks up a weird idea and makes it weirder.
I originally used the phrase “anthropomorphic climate change” on a previous thread, whilst commenting on Gillard wanting to, “fight carbon pollution”.
I made the point that to fight something it needs to be organic and sentient, and probably human-like, therefore “ascribing human form or attributes to a being or thing not human, especially to a deity”.
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Mary,
It is “anthropogenic”. I was just being too smart, and Andrew rightly pulled me up for it.
“Anthropomorphic” is to picture a deity or spirit (cheap or otherwise) as being in human form – the Greeks, in particular were seriously into the idea – a meme that still continues in religious icons to this very day.
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Andrew McRae,
That will never do. The UN — I have this on good authority — only goes first cabin. Why do you think they need all that money? So you’ll need to find the most expensive beach resorts and highest priced alcohol.
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You keep on bringing up interesting points:
“We do not even know how many buildings UN agencies occupy, world wide””.
Regardless of “How many” you can be sure the quality will be at a level befitting representatives of the UN Royalty and require an embarrassingly large budget.
Possibly the only way to “fix” the UN and IPCC etc is to expose publicly the high living and financial mismanagement in dollars and cents.
If you got examples of rorting of food aid in Africa by Warlords, of hotel budgets for Kev the Sequestrator, of travel expenses for BanKi Moon and so on, I’m sure the public would react.
The only problem is the MS Media would not print or put it out there.
The public perception is that the UN is full of wonderful people who want to ave the world.
Unfortunately the UN has shown a distinct inability and lack of effectiveness in saving the world from itself.
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ps
second last line should read “save” the world not ave or have
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Mary,
When I first read that, I assumed that you expected it to be read with a Cockney accent. Save the world; ‘ave the world; not much difference to the UN, I would say.
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I read it as ave – to greet.
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Bravo!
Whoever you are you made my day: IMF official ducks eggs during student protest in Turkey
http://www.sovereignindependent.com/?p=28249
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Well, my brother in law was made redundant yesterday. He worked building electrical transformers for the grid. The company has manufacturing plants in Brisbane, Perth and a plant overseas.
Brisbane is closing in the next two weeks, Perth will close after Xmas and all manufacturing will be overseas from there on. He has worked at the plant since he left school, doesn’t know anything else.
The reason for the closures? Won’t be able to compete due to a certain tax introduced next year and all tenders will be filled by the overseas plant. Expect more of this.
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ABC says:
Hard to say if this is true. If Big Industry was running the show there would be no carbon tax. On the other hand, carbon emission brokerage is what you’d expect if JPM, GS, and Rothschilds were secretly pulling the strings, regardless of the socialist “intergenerational equality” redistribution malarkey.
The USA is in big trouble mainly because Russia (world’s 2nd largest oil producer) and China (world’s largest holder of USA treasury bonds and 2nd largest consumer of oil) have been secretly planning to remove the USD as the world’s reserve currency and start trading with each other in rubles and renminbi. This is a subtantial qualitiative change in USA economics wrt imports, but does not affect Australia nearly so much. The Occupy Wall Street rationale does not quite translate smoothly to the Australian economy in the way these rent-a-crowd anarchists seem to think.
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the ABC’s so-called organiser:
Nick Carson bio
Nick Carson is a producer of the Beyond Zero Radio Show on 3CR Community Radio Melbourne and a former Australian Greens candidate for the Victorian state seat of Doncaster.
http://www.independentaustralia.net/about/ia-contributors/nick-carson-bio/
altho this mentions smaller unions, it claims bigger unions are considering giving support – yet the Unions defied the wishes of the vast majority of Australians by backing a tax and global bank trading of the air we breathe. shameful.
14 Oct: Greenleft: Unions throw support behind Occupy Melbourne protest
http://www.greenleft.org.au/node/49080
Nick, you do not represent anything like the “grasroots” or “normal, everday people” who were vehemently against the global bankers’ wet dream of a carbon dioxide tax and carbon dioxide emissions trading:
7 Oct: Occupy Wall Street movement spreads to Australia
Occupy Melbourne’s Nick Carson told Green Left Weekly that the Melbourne action, which will take place in City Square, aims to be “a broad-based, very inclusive grassroots movement of normal, everyday people”.
The first organising meeting for Occupy Melbourne took place on October 2. Carson said the meeting “agreed that we’re in solidarity with Occupy Wall Street, that Occupy Melbourne will commence on October 15, and that we will be camping in City Square in Melbourne indefinitely”…
http://www.greenleft.org.au/node/48979
Nick needs educating:
13 March: Greenleft: Nick Carson: Manufactured opposition to carbon price against our best interests
By putting a price on carbon pollution we are saying as a people that we want to stop the emission of carbon dioxide to mitigate the effects it has on our lives: polluted air, climate change, unsustainable and insecure energy sources, and unsustainable economics.
If the free market was truly self-regulating, it would have made the transition to renewables decades ago. But it isn’t, and it didn’t, and we have to act — it’s already long overdue…
If the Liberals really wanted to pick a fight, why not try and stop energy retailers passing the carbon price on to end users?…
We already know we can get to 100% within 10 years with commercially available technologies, so why not skip a laughable 5% emissions cut target, jump right over a 60% target, cut right to the chase and get on with transitioning to 100% renewables.
We have nothing to lose and everything to gain.
[Nick Carson is a musician, volunteer and student from Melbourne, Australia.]
http://www.greenleft.org.au/node/46966
Nick – whatever happened to:
June 2009: Bloomberg: China, Greenpeace Challenge Kyoto Carbon Trading (Update1)
The market for trading rights to spew carbon dioxide, created by the 1997 Kyoto Protocol to reduce global warming, is under attack by developing countries and environmentalists as negotiators hammer out a sequel treaty…
Investors who trade pollution permits are fighting proposals to limit or kill a United Nations program that lets European companies offset requirements to cut emissions by bankrolling low-carbon projects in emerging economies…
Greenpeace International says the UN system delays rich nations’ response to greenhouse gasses…
Trading Lobby
The lobby — which includes Goldman Sachs Group Inc., Morgan Stanley, Barclays Plc, JPMorgan Chase & Co. and 168 other firms — argues that climate change can’t be solved without a profit-driven market…
New Carbon Finance, a London-based investment adviser that tracks the market, predicts the CO2 market will reach $3 trillion by 2020…
Obama has called Europe’s four-year-old cap-and-trade system a model for the U.S…
“Market forces will be incredibly effective” in reducing greenhouse gasses, said Sandor, 67, in a May 22 interview on Bloomberg Television. “We’re going to see a worldwide market, and carbon will unambiguously will be the largest non-financial commodity in the world,” he said, predicting trades eventually will total $10 trillion a year…
http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=newsarchive&sid=aLM4otYnvXHQ
Nick – why do you think Obama received more money from Wall St in 2008 than any political candidate in 20 years?
10 Oct: Daily Caller: Obama attacks banks while raking in Wall Street dough
Despite his rhetorical attacks on Wall Street, a study by the Sunlight Foundation’s Influence Project shows that President Barack Obama has received more money from Wall Street than any other politician over the past 20 years, including former President George W. Bush…
http://dailycaller.com/2011/10/10/obama-attacks-banks-while-raking-in-wall-street-dough/
even tho Obama hasn’t got cap’n’tax up for the Wall St boys so far, no doubt they are hoping the CAGW crowd who are trying desperately and unsuccessfully to co-opt the OWS movement in the US will somehow get that carbon dioxide emissions trading up if he gets a second term. they are hedging their bets by naturally pumping money to Romney as well (the Turnbull of US politics), but Romney has had to backtrack publicly on his support for cap’n’tax due to public opposition:
July 2011: Reuters: UPDATE 1-Wall Street boosts Obama’s campaign cash haul
Despite howls of protests from many on Wall Street over some of President Barack Obama’s policies, financial sector employees are giving at a greater rate to his re-election bid than during his last campaign.
One-third of the funds hauled in by Obama’s big-money backers came from executives and others linked to the financial world, according to a report from the Center for Responsive Politics released on Friday.
The financial sector accounted for about 20 percent of what Obama’s top fundraisers collected during his 2008 bid…
http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/07/22/usa-campaign-obama-idUSN1E76L0PJ20110722
Nick – guess you would have voted for Romney in 2008!
2005: Romney announces strict new clean air regulations to take effect January 1 2006
Governor Mitt Romney today announced that Massachusetts will take another major step inmeeting its commitment to protecting air quality when strict state limitations on carbon dioxide (CO2) emissions from power plants take effect on January 1, 2006.
Massachusetts is the first and only state to set CO2 emissions limits on power plants. The limits, which target the six largest and oldest power plants in the state, are the toughest in the nation for businesses and consumers. They allow power generation companies to implement CO2 reductions at their own facilities or fund other reduction projects off-site through agreenhouse gas offset and credits program…
However, if the price of available offsets reaches $6.50/ton of emissions for 12 months, firms would then be able to shop for offsets anywhere in the world, where cheaper opportunities might be available…
http://www.scribd.com/doc/67881069/Romney-Announces-Strict-New-Clean-Air-Regulations-to-Take-Effect-January-1
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for Nick Carson (this from a Republican website) –
15 Oct: Hotair: Will Romney hire Obama’s climate-change guru Holdren?
Conservatives know well that Mitt Romney has so far refused to back away from his contention that anthropogenic global warming is real, and yet the former Massachusetts governor continues to lead the Republican race for the presidential nomination. In seven debates, none of Romney’s competitors have challenged him on this position. This week, however, the blog Moonbattery found a very interesting memo from Romney’s office in 2005 announcing tough new regulations on emissions — and noting a partnership with a familiar conservative bête noire in this administration (via Sundries Shack):…
Governor Mitt Romney today announced that Massachusetts will take another major step in meeting its commitment to protecting air quality when strict state limitations on carbon dioxide (CO2) emissions from power plants take effect on January 1, 2006. …ETC
So what has happened to Massachusetts’ electrical production since signing these regulations into law? According to the EIA, whose latest data is for 2009, it dropped 18% in four years, from over 46 billion megawatt hours to 38 billion. International imports, however, went from 697 million megawatt hours in 2006 to 4.177 billion megawatt hours two years later, and to almost 5 billion megawatt hours in 2009, more than twice the amount imported in any of the previous twenty years.
And who advised Romney on these regulations? Why, none other than Obama’s chief science adviser, John Holdren:…
This is the same John Holdren who wrote in favor of coercive Government population-control policies in the 1970s, and who in 2007 suggested government-imposed redistribution as a cure for American exceptionalism. The other adviser mentioned in this paragraph comes from a group which has among its top five donors in 2009 a familiar name — the George Kaiser Foundation. Kaiser, one will recall, is a big Obama bundler — and the main investor in an outfit called Solyndra.
If we’re looking for an alternative to the current administration’s partnerships with people like Holdren and Kaiser, shouldn’t we find a nominee that didn’t partner with either on energy policy?
http://hotair.com/archives/2011/10/15/will-romney-hire-obamas-climate-change-guru-holdren/
you have to laugh…
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