JoNova

A science presenter, writer, speaker & former TV host; author of The Skeptic's Handbook (over 200,000 copies distributed & available in 15 languages).


Handbooks


Advertising


Australian Speakers Agency



GoldNerds

The nerds have the numbers on precious metals investments on the ASX



The Skeptics Handbook

Think it has been debunked? See here.

The Skeptics Handbook II

Climate Money Paper



Archives

Ivermectin, kills headlice and also coronavirus in a few early trials

Remember the Japanese wonder drug Ivermectin that killed Coronavirus in the lab? Some trials on patients in Bangladesh and the US are showing some promise. This is the drug I called “sheep dip” (but which is really more of a cow or horse drench now). It’s famous for stopping River Blindness and saving the eyesight of thousands. It’s also used against  roundworms, lungworms, mites, lice, scabies and hornflies, as well as cattle-ticks. So it’s another drug, like hydroxycholoroquine that has been road tested for safety’s sake up the kazoo.

The cost of Ivermectin is around 15c in the third world, and $50 for one round for a human in New York.  (But even that is a lot cheaper than a $5000 a day ICU bed.)

As I said — there may come a day when you can cure coronavirus and treat the kids headlice at the same time.  Handy.

So it’s good to know some trials are occurring, and even better to know that some doctors are very enthusiastic about the results. In terms of medical clinical trials, these are small. I’m not sure the enthusiasm is matched by the data. I’d only say “it’s not dead yet”. But in terms of drug testing, that’s an achievement. Here’s hoping it can live up to these plans.

[UPDATE: Some readers missed the meaning in the paragraph above, so I bolded it. If anyone thinks I'm raving about these small anecdotal reports, read the line above . - Jo]

But if Coronavirus can be treated with a common mass produced, safety tested chemical, some Big Vaccine makers might not be as enthusiastic.

Breakthrough drug Ivermectin shows “astounding” results

Friday 22nd May,  David Patten, NewsMax

Reports Friday from multiple trials in the United States and abroad indicate a drug already approved by the FDA to treat parasitic infections is showing “astounding” results, and could represent a breakthrough in efforts to vanquishing the SARS-CoV-2 virus at the heart of the global pandemic.

Emergency medical physician Dr. Peter H. Hibberd, M.D., of Palm Beach County, Florida, told Newsmax Friday evening in an exclusive interview that he’s optimistic the drug will prove to be an important therapeutic advance, although he expects more trials will be needed before it wins FDA approval for use as a COVID-19 medication.

“There’s a common denominator here,” said Hibberd. “This drug is salvaging people from their death bed.”

In some cases, doctors reported just one dose of ivermectin markedly improved a patient’s condition. U. S. patients received a single oral dose, and some of them received a booster dose seven days later. The FDA-approved dose for parasitic infections was used.

 

Bangladesh medical team says Ivermectin with antibiotic Doxycycline works to treat COVID-19 patients

“We have got astounding results. Out of 60 COVID-19 patients, all recovered as the combination of the two drugs were applied”, said Professor Dr Md Tarek Alam, the head of medicine department at private Bangladesh Medical College Hospital (BMCH).

My team was prescribing the two medicines only for coronavirus patients, most of them initially reporting with respiratory problems with related complaints, later to be tested COVID-19 positive, he said.

Bangladesh has so far reported 20,995 coronavirus cases. A total of 314 people have lost their lives in the country due to the disease.

The death rate in Bangladesh then is around 1.4% of known cases. No clues there either.

ICMR to review ‘wonder’ drug combo used to treat Covid patients in Bangladesh

According to doctors in Bangladesh, the combination of ivermectin and doxycycline is an effective treatment against Covid-19, with patients recovering within four days.

h/t Keith Harrison, Bill in Oz, Chad, Dave in the states, NezySquared, Another Ian.

 UPDATE: The early lab tests implied we would need to use Ivermectin at an impossibly high dose to get the effect we want. After the Monash paper suggested the drug was reducing viral titres by 5,000 fold, another paper quickly replied that the approved dose of Ivermectin [would] not [be] useful in treating Covid-19. That headline desperately needed a verb of some sort. I added the “would be” which tells the audience that this response came from modeling and estimates, not from any patient data. It’s a theoretical response, not an observed one. It’s a lesson that in humans, we just have to do the testing in vivo.  h/t Peter F

REFERENCE

Caly, L. et al (2020) The FDA-approved Drug Ivermectin inhibits the replication of SARS-CoV-2 in vitrohttps://doi.org/10.1016/j.antiviral.2020.104787

VN:F [1.9.22_1171]
Rating: 9.4/10 (49 votes cast)
Ivermectin, kills headlice and also coronavirus in a few early trials, 9.4 out of 10 based on 49 ratings

114 comments to Ivermectin, kills headlice and also coronavirus in a few early trials

  • #
    Travis T. Jones

    Netherlands group now taking legal action against the coronavirus lockdown measures – full document here.
    A long read, but an important one for politicians to internalize.
    Includes much data and evidence:

    https://www.dropbox.com/s/8htd29b51c9bdxl/20200531%20Netherlands%20Legal%20Case%20Against%20the%20Government%20on%20Lockdown.pdf?dl=0

    German publications emerging with similar points.

    91

    • #
      Travis T. Jones

      24.
      It is remarkable that efforts are being made to research and develop a vaccine.
      After all, a vaccine is a prerequisite for getting the virus out of the world.
      € 50 million has been made available for this purpose to the Coalition on Epidemic Preparedness.
      However, a vaccine has never solved a crisis.
      It is a preparation and by definition cannot be used during an epidemic.

      93

      • #
        OriginalSteve

        Vaccines are the globalist tool of choice for whatever possibly nefarious reasons they have.

        These drugs, however, are going to upset the applecart. Alternatives and options are a good thing.

        The MSM however appears to be fully on song with the globalist agenda, apparently subtly smearing anyone who dares to go against the vaccine agenda ( like NRL players ).

        253

        • #
          GlenM

          Quite agree OS. Some years ago I would have thought it madness not to “immunise” against certain diseases – particularly ones that affect juveniles.That was my 20th century thinking. Not now.

          64

        • #
          Boris

          Good post, OS.

          I recently wrote to the NSW state Health Minister about this. I was prompted after my wife & daughter were watching MSM channel 7 news that reported an NRL football player was being coerced with the blunt force of threatening his livelihood to play unless he agreed to a flu vaccine.

          Directly after that report the NSW Health Minister Brad Hazzard was shown making the announcement that it was the right thing to impose vaccines and that people should get the message…. there was also talk about “vaccine papers/passport” & app etc.

          I took issue with him on philosophical grounds regarding state mandated vaccination as well as pointing out some corona virus details behind the scenes and urged him not to tow the line of the medical pharma globalists. I also sent him a few links to continue his research. I wrote, in strong language, that I would be withdrawing my vote from the coalition if mandated vaccination was adopted as a policy.

          Soon to be followed up with the federal Health Minister.

          51

          • #
            OriginalSteve

            Yes , they are going to find more and more people will be “locked and loaded” against what in effect is bullying people into a specific medical procedure.

            The NRL fiasco over the flu shot has I think has opened people’s eyes as to how things *really* work.

            51

      • #
        WXcycles

        After all, a vaccine is a prerequisite for getting the virus out of the world.

        We’re getting it out of Australia without one, so not a prerequisite.

        123

      • #
        Bill In Oz

        We really do have an active uninformed bunch of anti-vaxxers zealots
        Here on the blog nowadays pushing their own agenda. .
        Now that’s a conspiracy !
        :-(

        211

    • #

      Travis… interesting. Could you direct me to the bit about ivermectin.

      52

    • #
      RickWill

      All they are seeking is to end the lockdown. With 172 daily cases in a population of 17M that would appear a reasonable request.

      They will need to maintain good hygiene and separation practices along with effective tracking and tracing to avoid reproductive rate climbing above 1 as it appears close to 1 now; although that could simply be the result of more comprehensive testing. (Australia’s reproductive rate is arguably stuck at 1 but just 15 cases a day for over a month now)

      Globally the death rate to reported cases is falling. Possible factors involved:
      A. More testing means more of those not progressing to hospital are being assessed.
      B. Treatments for those in hospital are more effective.
      C. The RNA is mutating to be less deadly but more easily transferred via natural selection.
      D. Some of the most vulnerable have already died and the remainder are better quarantined.
      E. Wider use of prophylactic treatments; I still wonder about BCG vaccine – it is given some credibility in India:
      https://books.google.com.au/books?id=gsrlDwAAQBAJ&printsec=frontcover&source=gbs_ge_summary_r&cad=0#v=onepage&q&f=false

      Hospitals in Australia are now in a position to test staff regularly and test patients before transferring between hospital wards or before being released into broader community; particularly to aged care facilities.

      70

      • #

        F. Annual increase in UV in northern hemisphere killing virus in air, on surfaces and even possibly in the body faster. Plus working with vitamin D.

        40

      • #

        They will need to maintain good hygiene and separation practices along with effective tracking and tracing to avoid reproductive rate climbing above 1 as it appears close to 1 now; although that could simply be the result of more comprehensive testing. (Australia’s reproductive rate is arguably stuck at 1 but just 15 cases a day for over a month now)

        Really good points but the lower the rate goes below one the faster the whole thing ends. Also the more certain that it ends. Clamping it to zero is not possible but would end the whole thing quickest. As Jo says “crush the curve”. I say send it extinct quickly then open up faster once that is certain. Australia would have opened up long long ago if we had reduced r just a tad more. At 1 it goes on for ever. Opening too early then closing then doing it all again could see us in stable oscillation. That also goes on forever. Only eradication (sending it extinct) definitely and finally ends it.

        41

        • #

          Siliggy, is Australia’s Ro stuck at 1? Here in WA all our cases are imports now. Boats and planes and all in quarantine.
          https://www.covid19data.com.au/transmission-sources-states

          Community transmission cases of unknown source in Australia:
          NT/ACT: No community spread (ever?) at least none on the graph from 29/3 onwards.
          WA: No new and unknown now since 30/4.
          SA: Since 11/5
          TAS: None for a month then 2 unknowns 29/5 (Hope they figure them out asap).
          QLD: None now since 26/4 (Assuming I’m reading the graph correctly). Apparently they resolved the unknowns in the last few weeks.
          VIC: Fastest community spread (which is small but continuous).
          NSW: Last new case 24/5 — a slow trickle increase. 15 community cases discovered in May.

          Vic and NSW are still a risk to the whole of Australia.

          92

          • #

            Yes agreed Jo.
            Only N.S.W. and Vic are looking to be too close to r = 1. They are as you say still a risk to the whole of Australia. Hope the shorter days and cooler temps do not combine with lower winter UV, people spending more time in public but indoors, schools going back and many restrictions being relaxed to shoot up the numbers again.
            After typing that above it seems the track and trace people are doing a good job fast.
            https://www.covid19data.com.au/transmission-sources

            20

            • #
              RickWill

              The virus can certainly hang around for a long while.

              Since May 1 the number of cases in Australia has increased by 453. In the same time the number of active cases has only fallen by 405 from a starting point of 892. It suggests it takes, on average, almost 4 weeks to get a negative result after a positive. That number might be slanted toward the serious cases where there is a long fight. There may also be delays in testing for a negative as it would be tedious to be testing for a negative while there was some certainty of still testing positive.

              Although maybe not clinically persistent, the CV19 virus can remain contagious for a longer period than influenza. That means it could be around in Australia for quite a while yet. Probably requires four weeks of no new cases before declaring it is gone.

              40

  • #
    Travis T. Jones

    “In reality, the virus clinically no longer exists in Italy,” said Alberto Zangrillo, the head of San Raffaele Hospital in Milan.
    “We’ve got to get back to being a normal country,”

    New coronavirus losing potency, top Italian doctor says
    https://www.reuters.com/article/us-health-coronavirus-italy-virus/new-coronavirus-losing-potency-top-italian-doctor-says-idUSKBN2370OQ

    “We’ve got to get back to being a normal country,” he said. “Someone has to take responsibility for terrorizing the country.”

    The government urged caution, saying it was far too soon to claim victory.

    91

  • #
    Yonniestone

    I can see an advertising campaign here for Ivermectin using Tim Flannery as spokesman, who better to explain the benefits of unexpected DRENCHINGS.

    241

    • #
      TedM

      Just love the irony Yonnie

      51

      • #
        Kalm Keith

        The Flannery dip:

        the dip you have when you’re not having a dip.

        71

        • #
          Graeme No.3

          KK:

          But with Flannery you always have a drip.

          80

          • #
            Bill In Oz

            Flannery knows NOTHING about farming
            Or sheep dips.
            He’s an irrelevant nonentity in this debate.

            43

            • #
              Kalm Keith

              The joke, should you care to acknowledge it, is about getting “dipped” by a flannelised sea level rise.
              At least that’s how I took it.

              51

              • #
                Bill In Oz

                My scorn was directed at Flannery in case you had not noticed.
                So why do you need to respond by pouring scorn on me Keith ?
                Perhaps it just did not fit your own agenda ?

                14

        • #
          Annie

          It’s all a bit dippy.

          60

    • #
      GlenM

      A self-administered dose would be in order. Is it specific to liver fluke? Anyway we used Ivermectin many years ago and the sheep just loved it.

      50

      • #
        Plain Jane

        Glen, Ivermectin is not effective against liver fluke at all. It treats lots of things, and is mostly used in sheep for the roundworms, like black scour worm and barbers pole worm. Triclabendazole is for liver fluke. Liver fluke are a flatworm in the platyhelminthes. In sheep Ivermectin is fairly safe in overdose.

        40

  • #
    Travis T. Jones

    Sweden’s coronavirus experiment has well & truly failed …

    The way the Swedish response has been structured has made the country more resistant to changing tack during the epidemic.

    Sweden’s expert agencies are kept quite separate from the government, which is generally a good thing, because it means that scientific issues don’t become politicised.
    “But if the expert agency is making bad decisions there is nothing to counter it,” Einhorn points out. . . .

    So, while the UK and other countries which had initially embarked on a similar path changed tack and instituted national lockdowns, Sweden stuck to its guns.

    Now, it’s had nine times as many deaths per capita as neighbouring Norway, and it’s facing potential exclusion from a regional travel bubble because of fears Swedes will spread the virus.

    Tegnell has been criticised by his predecessor for not instituting a lockdown.

    “The country gained early praise from some for shunning lockdown, but it now has one of the highest per-capita rates of coronavirus death in the world”

    https://www.wired.co.uk/article/sweden-coronavirus-herd-immunity

    74

    • #
      Roger Knights

      I’ve read that Sweden counts deaths WITH Covid-19 as Covid-19 deaths, but Norway et al. don’t. That must make Sweden look worse than it really is

      21

  • #
    Travis T. Jones

    Confusing say what …

    Coronavirus: Norway wonders if it should have been more like Sweden -
    Cost of lockdown sees prime minister raise questions about strategy

    “On Wednesday night, Norway’s prime minister Erna Solberg went on Norwegian television to make a startling admission: she had panicked. ”

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2020/05/30/coronavirus-norway-wonders-should-have-like-sweden/

    81

  • #
    Peter Fitzroy

    ON TOPIC
    Ivermectin has been touted as a wonder drug for several months now, with Australia’s Monash University conducting one of the early studies, but….

    When tried out on humans rather than in the lab, the results are not encouraging
    https://www.news-medical.net/news/20200427/Ivermectin-alone-not-useful-in-treating-COVID-19.aspx

    55

    • #
      Kalm Keith

      “ON TOPIC”

      Heroic and compliant self assessment.

      54

      • #
        Peter Fitzroy

        As opposed to the first 5, none of which are anywhere near the topic. Save your pettiness

        411

        • #

          Where was it tried on humans Peter? This was not a test that gave covid patients the drug to see what happened. They took blood concentrations from previous studies, and estimated with a model that the drug would not reach the required doses at safe approved levels.

          But note what they admit:

          The actual concentration in the human lung cannot be measured. In cattle experiments, a single dose was shown to produce lung levels almost three times higher than the total plasma level. Despite this, lung ivermectin concentrations are “unlikely to reach the IC50 after oral administration of the approved dose in humans,” say the researchers.

          So I’ve added an update to the post. The headline used in that article was quite misleading. It was a fair comment for them say “there’s a risk this drug won’t work at safe doses” but it was silly to declare it didn’t help when they hadn’t tested it against Covid patients.

          111

    • #
      Bill In Oz

      At last a comment that is ON TOPIV ! Thank you Peter. It is a moment of sadness for me that the blog is being trolled by fools determined to ignore the science, and determined to distract and belittle Jo’s post with remarks supporting their ant-vaxxer ideology.

      Peter, I went and read the link you provided. It was published on April 27th. So it is now over a month out of date.They used a low dose and are now redoing their trial with higher doses.
      “Ivermectin has a wider therapeutic margin, allowing some increase in the dose if warranted, without unduly pushing up the risk of toxicity. This has led to the evaluation of higher than usual doses of ivermectin in a phase 3 trial to assess the safety. Another phase I trial looked at doses, 10-fold the approved dose.”

      I see it also did not use the anti-biotic doxycycline which the Bangladesh medical people are using in combination with Ivermectin.

      I wonder at the medical ethics of this trial : Across the planet we have millions of infected people with over 300,000 dead. In Bangladesh doctors claim they have found a cure with reports of curing patients with a particular combination of 2 drugs. IE IT WORKS !

      But this trial you report on does not follow up on that news but tries something different and has patients suffering and dying. What were they thinking ?

      PS I’m looking forward to a nice big haul of lovely ‘red thumbies’ to throw on the barbie for this comment. Thanks in advance.

      107

    • #

      Quotes from that study.

      In other words, even when the ivermectin concentration is not anywhere near the IC50, it appears to have antiviral activity.

      It has come to our attention that the original title of this article, “Ivermectin alone not useful in treating COVID-19″ was inadvertently misleading. The title has been corrected to better reflect the research paper’s title, “The Approved Dose of Ivermectin Alone is not the Ideal Dose for the Treatment of COVID-19″.

      50

      • #
        Peter Fitzroy

        Like other drugs, this is not the silver bullet you are looking for.

        22

        • #
          Bill In Oz

          Why Peter ?
          Evidence please to support your opinion.
          It’s your opinion versus Bangladesh doctors who are curing Covid disease suffers.

          23

          • #
            Peter Fitzroy

            Bill, Of the three drugs promoted so far, not one is effective on its own, not one has been used in dose levels which are suitable for those who have other co-morbidities. All are touted as the solution, but there is little evidence that they would work at a population level.

            In relation to the Bangladesh doctors, why should I take that as conclusive evidence, when other reports say the opposite.

            It would be nice if it was true, but I think I’ll see an honest banker helping Santa Claus chat with an uncorrupted politician before that happens

            26

            • #
              Steve of Cornubia

              Well, in a world where something as common as blood pressure can be treated five or six ways and GPs will trial several to find the one/combination that works best for each patient, why should we insist on just ONE to treat Covid-19?

              91

              • #
                OriginalSteve

                Agreed. And this is why I have been repeatedly highlighting the near-religious globalist vaccine-only agenda as being both potentially dangerous and unnecessary.

                Anything produced will likely have been whipped up quickly as well….

                52

              • #
                Bill In Oz

                But why not have drugs to cure and a vaccine to prevent infection ?
                Both in other words.
                Why tie one’s arm behind our back and deny a vaccine any role in this infectious disease ?

                34

        • #

          Like other drugs, this is not the silver bullet you are looking for.

          An arsenal of many good bullets may be better than missing with a silver one anyway.

          21

  • #
    Another Ian

    Hi Jo

    Slight correction to “This is the drug I called “sheep dip” (but which is really more of a cow or horse drench now)”

    Still used with sheep – internally as a drench and externally in jetting as in “Cooper’s Fly and Lice”

    120

    • #
      GlenM

      Sure. Effective broad spectrum drench for larval stage infestations. not sure about mature worms or lice.Sheep just love it. Disclaimer: poll of 2 year old wethers done 30 years ago.

      60

    • #
      Gf

      Also comes as an under skin injection for sheep and as a “pour on” for cattle, the farmer always cops a bit as well. Vets have for 20 years recommend the sheep injectable for dogs.Have been using all forms since they became available.

      30

      • #
        StephenP

        In the UK vets were reluctant to use ivermectin in dogs as certain breeds had bad reactions to the drug and some died. The main breed suffering was the Lassie type Rough Collie.
        However it worked perfectly well with my Labrador.
        There are now other mectins that are safe and used instead.

        30

      • #
        Another Ian

        Careful there before you treat.

        Seems not all dogs – I saw that it is not good for collies.

        20

        • #
          Farmer Gez

          Too many silly buggers dosed dogs with sheep strength liquid. It will kill a dog outright at those levels.

          21

        • #
          Another Ian

          “It does not cross the blood brain barrier in most farm animals or people, but does in a few varieties of dogs and some Dutch Pattern rabbits, where it can cause death (blocks a neurotransmitter). One of the most bizarre things, IMHO, is that we have 2 different neurotransmitters outside the brain, so don’t mind blocking one, while bugs, fles, lice, etc. only have the one so block it, they shut down and die. The mammals it kills have a defective blood brain barrier mutation.

          So while the drench is often handled in a cavalier way on farms, this is a very wide acting medication with lethal potential if the blood brain barrier is compromised. Only get it as prescribed, or if in an EOTWAWKI situation, titrate the first dose a few drops at a time over the first day and stop if bad effects start showing up. That is what I did for my Dutch Pattern rabbit (a half Dutch cross so 50:50 odds) with head tilt. After that I knew her blood brain barrier was good, and the second dose just poured on.”

          In comments from

          https://chiefio.wordpress.com/2020/05/28/w-o-o-d-28-may-2020/#comment-130198

          down

          10

  • #
    OriginalSteve

    Hmm…

    Which could make sense of it had bits of HIV engineered into it?

    https://www.news-medical.net/news/20200413/Novel-coronavirus-attacks-and-destroys-T-cells-just-like-HIV.aspx

    “Now, a team from the United States and China revealed evidence that the coronavirus disease, caused by the severe acute respiratory syndrome coronavirus (SARS-CoV-2), attacks the immune system’s T lymphocytes. The worrying findings highlight the destructive power of the novel coronavirus, which can destroy the immune system, leaving the patient unable to fight off the infection.

    51

    • #
      Bill In Oz

      Hmmmmm ?
      Good to see you re-post a link I put back in mid April just after it was published.
      :-)
      Green Thumb Steve !

      12

  • #
    Gbees

    I came across this podcast accidentally. An interview with Prof. Dolores Cahill, Irish immunologist. Be interested in other peoples’ opinions. Most of what she discusses I’ve found in scientific literature. Given the content goes against what our politicians and CMOs are saying, I thought I’d check if she’s being vilified. Yep she is, just like climate sceptics. So I figure she’s close to the target. https://delingpole.podbean.com/e/professor-dolores-cahill/

    82

  • #
    Broadie

    So Abattoir workers are more susceptible due to a cold workplace in the boning rooms, yet less susceptible to becoming ill and dying due to contact with ivermectin?

    Luckily Doctor Norman Swann, ‘Their ABC’s’ go to man has prepared the public for the news a young man’s death in Blackwater, a death used to justify the continued denial of liberty in Queensland, was not a conspiracy just an accident caused by the false negative rate of a test. A test for a virus that had not been tested. An untested test test has just produced results that are being tested!

    https://www.abc.net.au/radio/programs/coronacast/so-whats-the-chance-your-coronavirus-test-is-wrong/12297980

    So you’ve just had a coronavirus test, and had a little stick shoved up your nose and wobbled around.

    But while you’re waiting for a result, have you thought how accurate it might be?

    Turns out the so-called false negative rate – that’s when positive cases are wrongly found to be negative – can be as high as one in three on average.

    What might that mean for Australia’s fight against the virus?

    The good Doctor has yet to get to the bit about false positives. The local ABC radio was carrying the new line that this means you should keep testing till you get a positive if you feel you have or may have had any of the symptoms.

    I would follow this good advice below based on Norm’s epiphany that the test is wildly inaccurate.

    *POST CORRECTION!: Ignore this graph which was shown here which didn’t show the peak at all. It was irrelevant

    81

    • #
      David-of-Cooyal-in-Oz

      G’day Broadie,
      And now the ABC Just In (at about 8:15) is saying that the test gave a false positive for the Blackwater man:
      https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-06-02/coronavirus-queensland-nathan-turner-false-positive-blackwater/12308080
      ” Her apology has come after confirmation Blackwater man, Nathan Turner, did not die of coronavirus, igniting an angry backlash among residents of the tight-knit central Queensland community. ”

      Cheers
      Dave B

      70

    • #
      Bill In Oz

      It’s all a dastardly plot. A conspiracy to destroy the world as we know it.
      Sarc/

      Yep, it was a false positive. That’s regrettable. But the news was not suppressed. And Palachook to her credit has apologised.

      27

      • #
        glen Michel

        Well, it took in the Federal Health minister Hunt as well. Told you so that the virus kills 30 year olds. Better to keep your mouth shut and be thought an idiot than to open it to remove all doubt. MT.

        41

        • #
          Bill In Oz

          As Jo has said, Test, Test, Test.
          This was just one test after he died.
          A stuff up ?
          Yes.
          A plot ?
          No.

          43

          • #
            Broadie

            Great idea Bill!

            Let us find out what we are testing for?
            Find a test that has a good degree of probability of testing for that indicator.
            And, I know this is a hard one for you, report it in a format that is not designed to frighten the children.

            Then test test test.

            So no conspiracy theory, no alleged plot just adult logic.

            21

    • #
      Another Ian

      ” The local ABC radio was carrying the new line that this means you should keep testing till you get a positive ”

      Isn’t that how “their ABC” run their polls?

      11

  • #
    William Astley

    This drug’s in vitro results against covid, a 5000 percent reduction in 48 hours does sound promising. It would be great to have something that reduces the covid death rate and the fear.

    Correcting the population’s ‘Vitamin’ D deficiency looks like it might have a bigger payback, with no risk. It looks like the ‘science’ is done, we have the cure to stop serious covid cases.

    ‘Vitamin’ D deficient people are 20 times more likely to die from covid, than ‘Vitamin’ D deficient people, regardless of age or sex.

    Patterns of COVID-19 Mortality and Vitamin D: An Indonesian Study

    https://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=3585561

    Vitamin D Insufficient Patients 12.55 times more likely to die

    Vitamin D Deficient Patients 19.12 times more likely to die

    Based on actual survey data, it is a fact that, 42% of the US population and 82% of the US black population is ‘Vitamin’ D deficient. Same definition of ‘Vitamin’ D normal and deficient, as the Indonesian study.

    There is direct observational evidence that ‘Vitamin’ D deficiency is the controlling factor. Dark skin people require up to ten times more UVB to produce the same amount of Vitamin D as white skin people.

    The BCC notes the covid death rate, correlates with how dark the ethnic group’s skin is. The same finding in the US. Black people have more than twice the death rate, than whites. And Latinos have a 60% greater death rate than whites.

    https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-52574931
    https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-52492662

    There is a 80% reduction in breast cancer if the population’s Vitamin D deficiency is corrected. The reduction in the incidence of Prostate cancer, is expected to be the same, tests underway, researchers have discovered the gene which Vitamin D turns on to stop prostate cancer. Almost complete elimination of colon cancer. 50% reduction in the incidence of type 2 diabetes, and so on. ‘Correction’ requires 4000 UI/day. Double blind, ‘studies’ have been done with 2000 UI/day to prove that 2000 UI/day is not enough to stop cancer.

    https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0960076015300091?via%3Dihub

    Incidence rate of type 2 diabetes is >50% lower in Grassroots Health cohort with median serum 25–hydroxyvitamin D of 41 ng/ml than in NHANES cohort with median of 22 ng/ml

    This chemical is something our body needs. Double blind studies to learn how our body avoids getting cancer, type 2 and 1 diabetes, dementia, depression, and so on, when our ‘Vitamin’ D deficiency is corrected, is sort of evil.

    200

    • #
      Bill In Oz

      William prevention is always better than a cure.
      And Vitamin D is an effective preventative against this virus.
      I take it myself every day. My blood test for vitamin D was 187 I was told yesterday. So I doubt I will get this disease.

      But there are thousands of people suffering from this disease right now and those persons need a cure.
      Vitamin D does not cure people suffering from this disease.
      Ivermectin with doxycycline has being done in Bangladesh and has been for a couple of months.
      There is the old dictum of medicine : “Do NO Harm”
      And there is an equally important one : “Do What Works”

      26

  • #
    Furiously curious

    Somewhere it was mentioned that statins interfere with vitamin D uptake. A large number of us oldies are on statins.

    60

    • #
      Bill In Oz

      True. If you Cholesterol levels are low then the body cannot make Vitamin D in the skin using the energy of sunlight.
      And big Pharma’s Statins reduce cholesterol levels in the blood.
      Not clever ! Best to not take statins.
      But in us elderly folk the ability of our skin to transform Cholesterol into Vitamin D is reduced anyway. So taking Vitamin D as a supplement makes sense.

      54

    • #
      Analitik

      Wasn’t that mentioned as a contributor to the high mortality rate in northern Italy?

      30

  • #
    Clyde Spencer

    Jo
    You said, “So it’s another drug, like hydroxycholoroquine that has been road tested for safety’s sake up the kazoo.”

    I would suggest displaying more restraint in your promotion of ‘novel’ medications. For starters, the drugs are tested initially on healthy lab animals, and then on healthy humans. The majority of people taking ivermectin (as well as HCQ) are typically healthy except for the parasite they may be trying to rid themselves of. They are not representative of the elderly with co-morbidities who seem to be the most vulnerable to COVID-19. Typically, people who are ill and weak are less tolerant of things that further stress them. Be careful or your medical license may be revoked.

    44

    • #
      Kalm Keith

      Interesting points.

      21

      • #

        Clyde, perhaps read the post again. I warned readers the docs seemed to be hyping things.

        I said “I”m not sure the enthusiasm is matched by the data. I’d only say “it’s not dead yet”. But in terms of drug testing, that’s an achievement. Here’s hoping it can live up to these plans.”

        I stand by my assessment that any drug that’s been used for years and internally in children has a much broader safety margin than the 2,000,000 drug contenders out there that don’t. Only a tiny percentage of drugs are in the HCQ and Ivermectin superdrug status in terms of common use.

        That doesn’t mean it will help people beat coronavirus.

        71

    • #
      Plain Jane

      Clyde, ivermectin is hardly novel. Its been used extensively in mammals since the late 1980′s. I personally would administer 10,000 doses of it or other similar ‘mectins each year. It is quite safe in many times overdose in weak and sick and small and thin sheep. I would think African doctors would have extensive experience with sick humans and old and infirm humans. I admit that certain dog breeds cant cope with it; collies specifically.

      By definition ALL medications are novel with Covid, because Covid is novel. So does that mean we can never have a treatment because any new treatment will be novel when we start to use it?

      If Chloroquine and Ivermectin are novel, then what medications are not?

      50

  • #
    Bill In Oz

    @Rick : “Australia’s reproductive rate is arguably stuck at 1 but just 15 cases a day for over a month now”
    Yes that is a concern Rick. And most of the ‘new’ cases are in Victoria with a few otheres being discovered among quarantined travellers elsewhere..
    In Victoria new caeses are being found in schools and kindergarten and from persons with symptoms opting to get tested
    Why ? What is going on in Victoria that is preventing the elimination of the virus there ?

    23

  • #

    Dense population vs Tas.
    Most of Vic is further south than most of S.A. It does get more U.V. Plug Adelaide into that UV index model ad real data chart and a few May dates. You will see it often in the yellow (moderate).

    20

    • #

      Ooops. Meant to reply to Bill In Oz
      June 2, 2020 at 11:45 am.

      20

    • #
      Bill In Oz

      My hunch is that the Victorian Dpt of Health is even more incompetent than we learned from the way it handled the Cedar Meats fiasco.
      But more evidence is needed. But I notice that the Dpt of Health is very uninformative or vague with infection statistics.

      41

    • #
      Bill In Oz

      Then why are nearly all the new infections located in Melbourne’s North & Western suburbs ?
      Why not the Eastern & South Eastern suburbs as well ?
      Sunlight & UV do not vary at all across Melbourne’s geographic footprint in Victoria.

      21

      • #

        “why are nearly all the new infections located in Melbourne’s North & Western suburbs ?”
        Luck of the draw? Sample sise is getting small. That being said is the population density lower out in the east. More houses, less flats? More cars, less reliance on public transport? Further from the international airport?

        22

        • #
          Annie

          Demographics?

          30

        • #
          Bill In Oz

          Sliggy I know Melbourne. I have family there and have lived there – about 16 years..
          Population density in some Eastern & South Eastern suburbs is very very high.
          Eg Box Hill which is 70% Chinese in high rises & houses.
          Dandenong which is 40-50% Indian, Pakistani & Bangladeshi in appartments and houses..
          Springvale which has a high proportion of Vietnamese.
          Public transport is thick on the ground in all Melbourne suburbs : trams, trains and buses. No difference.
          Tullarmarine is in the outer Northern suburbs but lets be frank, it’s mostly the wealthier people who travel by plane and they are concentrated in South Yarra, Kew, Burwood, Toorak, Malvern, Chadstone etc.
          The inner Eastern & South Eastern suburbs.

          The main distinctive feature of the Northern & Western suburbs is the lack of an Australian English speaking middle class. There are lots of working poor, unemployed poor and also rich migrant families. but not many traditional Australian middle class families.

          31

  • #
    Tiffany

    Race demographics per state. Many people travelled back after the new year from overseas and went to their home states. As some cultures won’t use main stream Doctors and others didn’t wish to be quarantined, the true number of infected people wasn’t known. Being untested, they travelled freely among the population. N.S.W saw an explosion in the beginning of new cases as people were travelling to country towns and outer suburbs to stock up on essential supplies for themselves and to send home overseas. (This I know to be true). After this frenzy slowed and “stay at home laws” were put in place, the cases slowed to a trickle. The lingering we now see is a result of Race demographics, the “She’ll be right” mentality, or the plain selfish people not wanting to be quarantined and still continuing to mingle. Personally, I’m very excited about ivermectin. I do hope though, it won’t be assasinated because it’s not a profitable option for big pharma!

    70

  • #
    DonS

    Hi Jo

    At first I thought here we go again, another miracle cure. Turns out to be a re-hash of a previous miracle cure. Not even a “study” this time, just a bunch of anecdotes of people rising from their death beds cured. Come on man!

    The problem with people suddenly getting better after appearing to be on deaths door is that this is how these viruses like corona and flu work. You can feel very bad and then next day feel good with only a nagging cough for a week or so after to indicate you had been sick. This is why it is so hard to work out which treatments will work, it takes long term clinical trials to get a real idea of what’s going on. Observations from MDs may suggest a line of investigation but are not proof of anything.

    As anecdotes are now the accepted level of scientific evidence here I offer this one. A 93 year old woman with Wuhan-19 was in hospital getting treatment when her vital signs all started to go downhill, anyway 3 days later she was discharged from the hospital. The human immune system is a powerful thing and once it gets to grips with its foe it can turn things around very quickly, no miracle pills required.

    Hope I don’t seem too critical with my comments Jo but as interesting or entertaining as all these “cures” are I don’t think we would accept this level of evidence from say a so-called climate scientist. Is the MD on the end of a persons name some evidence of higher authority? Dr Karl and others would no doubt agree.

    45

    • #

      Read my reply to clyde.

      I declared this drug is “not dead yet” as a possible treatment. I’m hardly raving.

      I didn’t think I needed to spell out why I was “glad to see this being studied” but not saying, “buy some”, “write to your minister”, “Demand Ivermectin for Aged Care Homes”.

      It’s almost like I’m not allowed to mention that some docs are excited, even though I put qualifiers on it…

      91

      • #
        MrGrimNasty

        I seem to recall there have been indications/suspicions in the past that Ivermectin can cause ‘excess deaths’ in the 6 months/year after treatment, especially in the sort of demographic hit hardest by CV19 – so you certainly wouldn’t want to use it in aged care homes.

        But yes, why not investigate every possibly treatment, it doesn’t matter if one isn’t appropriate for all – is it ever!

        11

    • #
      Steve of Cornubia

      Your accusation of overreaction is an overreaction.

      20

    • #
      Bill In Oz

      Don
      1 : Doctors in Bangladesh find it works for their patients.
      And a doctor in Florida is raving about it also.

      2 : And Ivermectin is readily available self serve in ALL farm shops in Australia, New zealand, Canada & USA & UK & South Africa etc etc etc..
      Plus it’s been a standard treatment for all sorts of parasites for decades. And is used to treat human diseases over the counter in Africa and Asia.

      3: It does no harm to mammals or humans.

      4: It’s dead cheap

      But you dead pan it ?
      Seems to me like you work in big Pharma Don.

      then it has a lot of things going for it.

      11

    • #
      Len

      Most of the medical practitioners have the double pass bachelor degrees MBBS. Bachelor of Medicine and Bachelor of Surgery. In USA their first medical degree is erroneously called the MD.In Australian the MD, Doctor of Medicine is a post graduate degree. So called Dr Karl does not have a doctorate. He was awarded an Honary Doctorate by the Sunshine Coast university. Normally people with honary doctorates don’t use the term doctor. Two exceptions: Dr Karl and Professor Doctor Sir Les Patterson.

      20

  • #
    Bob in Castlemaine

    For God’s sake don’t tell Donald about it. If he were to mention it it’d be banned in a flash!

    71

    • #
      Bill In Oz

      I remember reading a report where he mentioned it in passing at a presser.
      But it got duck shoved by some other issue that the press corps wanted to push about him.

      23

  • #
    Tiffany

    If a search is done for ivermectin on youtube, a fellow can be found using it to deworm himself, I’s a bit difficult to find and even more difficult to watch. Graphic is an understatement. The point is, he took more then one dose and lived to tell the tale. He wasn’t using animal ivermectin though. It doesn’t kill. Another option I saw discussed but not taken seriously, was using ivermectin in oxygen masks. This way it enters the lungs directly. To my knowledge though, it hasn’t been tried.

    40

  • #

    It should be noted that Bangladesh has one of the highest population proportions (44.5% from my search and approximate averaging between male/female and smoked/smokeless) of nicotine intake. It is also known that nicotine has some useful effect against Covid-19 (see https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2020.05.06.20092999v1 ).

    Accordingly for Bangladesh, considerable care should be taken in efficacy studies- this relating to sample biases arising from nicotine intake. There is a particular general bias with 60.7% males and 28.2% females with nicotine intake and 34.6% smoking and 54.3% taking smokeless tobacco. Also the smokers would likely have adverse effects from lung morbidity – but not the smokeless takers.

    Keep safe and best regards

    41

    • #
      Tiffany

      This makes sense but doesn’t account for Ivermectin being trialed with success in America. I have no doubt That some of the failed hydroxychloroquine sample also smoked..

      40

  • #

    Excellent professional medical lectures from Medcram on Covid 19 including this one on Ivermectin.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qc6VV7ue4cE

    More at https://www.youtube.com/user/MEDCRAMvideos/videos

    We gave some Ivermectin to our visiting Fox who had mange and she is now restored to excellent health but perhaps I shouldn’t take some if I get the virus, or perhaps I should?

    30

    • #
      Tiffany

      I’ll throw wrench in the works. I bought and tried Oral sheep Drench. (After research) only at 200mcg/kg. It is only ivermectin, and only oral. Not the topical formulation. I’m alive. I then used a tiny amount in a nasal irrigation bottle. I had a bad sinus infection. Had being the operative word. I’m alive. No adverse effects.

      30

  • #
    ATheoK

    “It’s famous for stopping River Blindness and saving the eyesight of thousands. It’s also used against roundworms, lungworms, mites, lice, scabies and hornflies, as well as cattle-ticks.”

    Sounds like it should be prescribed for Lyme disease and likely many other parasitic beasties.

    That is, if the hidebound FDA and AMA can accept a non big-pharma solution.

    10

  • #
    Kalm Keith

    Still in quarantine.

    11