JoNova

A science presenter, writer, speaker & former TV host; author of The Skeptic's Handbook (over 200,000 copies distributed & available in 15 languages).


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Weekend Unthreaded

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Weekend Unthreaded, 9.7 out of 10 based on 18 ratings

330 comments to Weekend Unthreaded

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    • #
      OriginalSteve

      Fictional comment, received via email, source unknown….

      “”Attention, students. Because so many of you missed Friday’s classes, what with your little climate party and all, today I’m assigning extra work. Let’s begin with mathematics. 558,400,000 is a really big number. Can anyone here tell me what it might represent? No? Well, that’s the amount in tonnes of carbon dioxide that Australia emitted last year.

      “I’ll just pause here for a minute until Samantha stops crying. By the way, Samantha, your sign at the climate rally needed a possessive apostrophe and “planet” was spelled incorrectly, so I’m putting you back in remedial English again.

      “Where were we? Oh, yes. 558,400,000 tonnes of carbon dioxide. Let’s see how we can reduce that number. Ban coal mining? That’ll knock off a big chunk. Ban petrol-powered vehicles? Good call. That’s another slab of emissions gone. Does the class believe we should ban all mining? You do. Interesting. For your homework tonight, I want you all to design batteries that contain no nickel or cadmium. Good luck getting to school in electric cars without those.

      “And there’ll be no more steel wind turbines once the iron ore mines are closed. It’s just the price we’ll have to pay, I suppose. Even with all those bans, however, Australia will still be churning out carbon dioxide by the magical solar-powered truckload. Cuts need to go much further.

      “More people means more human activity which means more carbon dioxide, so come on, students, sacrifices must be made. Speaking of which, how many of you have grandparents? Not any more you don’t. And Samantha is crying again. Can someone please take her to the school safe space and let her “process some emotions”, or whatever the hell it is you kids do in there? Thank you.

      “Sing along with Kim Carnes: “All the world knows of her charms/She’s got/Stop Adani arms” Who agrees we need to simplify our lives in order to reduce emissions? Returning to earlier times, when emissions were much lower, might help save our earth. So goodbye to air travel, the internet and your cell phones. People got by without them in the past and they’ll survive without them in our sustainable future. Still, those emissions will be way too high. Just for fun, let’s ban Australia and see what happens.

      “All factories, houses, streets, farms – gone. All people gone. Every atom of human presence on this land mass, completely erased. At that point we’ll have finally cut our emissions to nothing. We’ve subtracted an annual 558,400,000 tonnes of carbon dioxide from the atmosphere.

      “Congratulations, children. By eliminating Australia, you’ve just reduced the world’s yearly generation of carbon dioxide from 37,100,000,000 tonnes to just … 36,541,600,000 tonnes. Still, every tiny reduction helps, right? Maybe not. Let’s have a quick geography lesson. Tyler, please point out China on this map. No; that’s Luxembourg. China is a bit bigger. Try over here. There you go. Here’s the thing about China. How long will it take for China to produce the equivalent amount of carbon dioxide that we’ve slashed by vanishing Australia? One year? Two years? Five years? Not quite. Start the carbon dioxide clock on China right now, and that one enormous nation will have matched our annual output by October 10.
      China adds a whole Australia to the global emissions total every twenty days. For that matter, China will have added another 1,190,953 tonnes by the end of this one-hour class. Even a tiny increase in China’s output puts Australia in the shade. Various experts last year estimated that China was on course for a five per cent carbon dioxide boost. This would mean an extra 521,637,550 tonnes – or basically what Australia generates. Our total is the same as China’s gentle upswing.

      “So maybe your protest was in the wrong country. Here’s another assignment: write letters to the Chinese government demanding it stops dragging people out of poverty. Make sure you include your full name and address, because the Chinese government is kind of big on keeping records. Send a photograph of yourself standing in front of your parents’ house.

      “You might repeat this process in 3rd world countries. In fact, rather than going to Europe for your next big family holiday, prevail upon your parents to visit 3rd world countries instead. Their tiny villages would be the perfect place to tell residents they shouldn’t have electricity. They’ll probably thank you for it. Or they should, if they aren’t stupid climate deniers. Indian paupers must avoid making the same tragic affluence mistakes as us, so we must keep their carbon footprints as tiny as possible. Can you imagine how terrible is would be for the earth if all of the 3rd worlds one billion-plus population owned cars and air-conditioners? It really doesn’t bear thinking about.

      “One further assignment: tonight, locate a clean, green alternative source for $66 billion in exports. That’s how much was raised last year by the Australian coal industry. Working it out won’t be too much of a challenge, I’m sure. After all, you know science and stuff. About half of your signs on Friday claimed you know more about all these things than does the Prime Minister. Show him how advanced your brains are by devising a brand-new multi-billion export bonanza. Hey, look who’s back! Feeling better, Samantha? That’s nice. Feelings are the most important thing of all.”

      390

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    • #
      Roger

      Sooner or later Democracy is an obstacle to everything Left Wing.

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      • #
        OriginalSteve

        Well true…..especially as the Left appears to be, at its core, anti-Democratic, regardless of what it says…..

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      • #
        george1st:)

        Indeed , as Churchill once quoted
        “Democracy is the worst form of Government except for all those other forms that have been tried from time to time”
        Problem is in todays ‘education’ history is not taught and so cannot be learned from .
        Such a shame as history is the worlds greatest teacher .

        70

  • #
    Lance

    Sooner or later, ordinary working people have their fill of Green protests and take matters in hand.

    Blocking traffic to protest climate change Vs. angry commuter.

    First 2 vids are epic. Language warning.

    https://twitter.com/Micycle444/status/1185397533276852224

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  • #
    David Wojick

    Just posted on my Climate Change Debate Education website:

    An Irish Overview of the Latest Climate Science for Policymakers

    This elegant and graphic filled 36 page whitepaper provides a brief overview of the latest Climate Science, compiled by the Irish Climate Science Forum.

    http://ccdedu.blogspot.com/2019/10/an-irish-overview-of-latest-climate.html

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  • #
    Kalm Keith

    The Climate Debate is deliberately focused on irrelevant vague concepts which makes leading the masses so much easier.

    A broad overview of the major factors is always useful in determining the relevance of climate action and “emergencies.

    From MFJ;

    MaryFJohnston
    October 24, 2011 at 9:10 am
    Every “Climate Scientists” presentation I have seen tells lies by omission.

    For example we are told that “Carbon Dioxide will blah, blah, blah ….. and if CO2 doubles then … blah, blah, blah ”.

    They will Never separate out the Human effect of CO2 from the Total CO2 effect.

    They will never acknowledge the presence of water vapour in the air because as a Green House Gas it wipes the floor with CO2.

    So, as a last post, I felt it important to give examples of how the CO2 we produce really influences the climate and will use a very concrete example of a real measured period from our recent past.

    With apologies to Rudyard Kipling.

    IF

    Active Carbon Dioxide Distribution is:

    a. 98% of Earths ( active ) CO2 is dissolved in the oceans.
    b. 2% of Earths ( active ) CO2 is in the atmosphere.
    c. 97% of atmospheric CO2 is of Natural Origin.
    d. 3% of atmospheric CO2 is Human attributable.

    And

    e. Atmospheric H2O is about 95% of the total greenhouse effect.

    It would seem then that if we want to control CO2 levels we need to control three items:

    1. The oceans and 2. Water vapour 3. Natural CO2 emissions.

    Logically the Atmospheric CO2 and Ocean origin CO2 interaction needs serious study and Human CO2 emissions are rendered insignificant by the shear weight of the Water GHG effect.

    So the Total GHG effect is

    1. Water about 95%
    2. Total CO2 about 4% of GHG effect
    3. Human proportion of CO2 is 3% of the above 4% or 0.12 % of all CO2 effect.

    IF

    If world atmospheric temperature rose by 0.6 C degrees over the last 150 years from 1860 (maybe).

    And if Greenhouse gases are the only cause of this rise (very debateable).

    And if human origin CO2 is to be taken into account.

    THEN.

    Our part of the world’s green house gas effect is 0.0009 C degrees of the temperature rise of 0.6 C degrees. (calculated as a max).

    The rest is nature.

    Likewise we are responsible for 0.0045 mm of the annual 3mm ocean increase.

    Over 100 years we would cause 0.45 mm sea rise.

    Holy Crap Batman.

    We’ve been had by the IPCC, WWF and many politicians.

    The “revelation” above is simply confirmation of the real science.

    When you quantify the “Green House” ( if I can use that term) effects:

    • we have a major winner in Water

    • followed by Natural produced CO2

    • and way behind both in magnitude, Human Related CO2 struggling to make any visible impression on the system.

    So CCS and Carbon Abatement, Carbon Footprint, Responsible Energy and other catchphrases of the Church of AGW may now be consigned to the sin bin where they belong.

    This has been my last post as I feel that it is time to go back.

    Good luck.
    _____________

    http://joannenova.com.au/2011/10/unthreaded-oct-22-2011/#comment-622658
    _____________

    This diversion of human effort, thinking and politics has always been about domination and subjugation of the masses to give power and wealth skimming their rightful place in the world of the Elites.

    Remember MalEx444 and the poke in the eye to Australians with the Super Mal Submarines and Snowy Battery: ugly stuff that we allow ourselves to be treated so badly by our leaders: and they’re not held to account.

    KK

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      David Wojick

      The problem is that annual human emissions are more than twice the annual increase in the CO2 concentration. It is this increase that is of concern, not the overall greenhouse effect, which is estimated to be around 33 degrees. The alarmists claim that (1) the increase is caused by our emissions, (2) the warming is caused by the increase and (2) the warming is dangerous (according to the models). These are plausible but unproven claims, which is why the debate is so complex.

      You do not address these crucial claims.

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      • #
        Kalm Keith

        David, there appears to be some confusion here.

        I’m not talking about the IPCCCCC reports or some 33 concept.

        Earth’s atmospheric temperature is controlled by the Sun and the gravitational pull of the Earth which compresses the atmosphere. PV=nRT .

        Nobody, not even the warmers can deny that human origin CO2 is only 3 or 4 % of atmospheric CO2.

        Assertions by the IPCCCCC posing as science are just rubbish and my comments were looking at the basic parameters of the situation, something that the IPCCCCC wants to avoid.

        I just don’t understand the substance of your comment.

        KK

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        • #
          Vishnu

          Do you actually believe what you’ve written? Extraordinary. The level of illiteracy is a new record.
          Do you enjoy just making things up? A coherent argument is a bit harder than writing a few pseudoscientific sentences in a row.
          Sigh – https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CcmCBetoR18

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          • #
            Graeme No.3

            The claim that the burning of coal only started with the Industrial Revolution in around 1850 is nonsense. Coal burning was big in London by 1700 or earlier. A fleet of ships carried coal from Newcastle to London, and James Cook chose a (well proven) collier design for his round the world trips. Moreover the sky in London was so polluted by smoke that observations of the sun could be carried out with the naked eye. You can be fairly sure that the use in The Netherlands (and elsewhere) of such a convenient source of heat didn’t go unnoticed. Further the Industrial Revolution spread to France under Louis Phillipe in the 1830′s and in Germany in the 1840′s after the Customs Union.

            The claim that CO2 is rising comes from ice core measurements, to modern atmospheric measurements which are graphed on the the end.
            When the Younger Dryas ended there was a sharp rise in temperature as the Holocene started. Indeed the Holocene warm period lasted, on and off, for nearly 8,000 years, plenty of time for the oceans to warm and Henry’s Law to cause gas to come out of solution. The ice cores do NOT show any increase so which bit of science is questionable?

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            • #
              Zane

              And prior to coal charcoal was used to smelt ores for tools and weapons. All human development has depended on combustion. Cooking food, scaring off predators, warmth, illumination at night, humans knew fire was a gift from the gods.

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              • #
                Ted O’Brien.

                And what fuelled the fire? Where did they get the charcoal?

                My formal study of history stopped at primary school, but I somehow picked up the notion that the switch to coal came after Britain ran out of trees.

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          • #
            Kalm Keith

            Igogoludu misa po nah, I greka pardo.

            Maisi bilcatdi pon. Ngi goh pop nud par emp nils.

            Each and every day.

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            AndyG55

            “Do you actually believe what you’ve written”

            Says Vishy who can’t even produce any actual empirical evidence

            You are a scientific illiterate with the intellect of a stunned mullet Vishy

            Links to the pothead only reinforce that fact. !!

            You really are a gullible little toad if you fall for his crap. !!

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      • #
        David Wojick

        Just to be clear, my position is that alarmist claim #2 has been falsified by observation, as I explain here: https://www.cfact.org/2018/01/02/no-co2-warming-for-the-last-40-years/. The CO2 is not causing the little warming we have seen.

        And if #2 is false then #3 is moot, for if the CO2 is not causing warming then it is certainly not causing dangerous warming. The models are not just hot, they are dead wrong.k

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        theRealUniverse

        The so called 33deg is rubbish. It is derived form miss use and understanding of the Stephan-Boltzmann equation. An atmosphere less planet does not have a temperature! i.e. Moon, Mercury, even Pluto. The surface temperature is that due to the absorption of solar energy by the constituent rock of the surface. As the surface (space) is a vacuum there cannot be a temperature.

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        • #
          TdeF

          Every surface has a temperature. Every surface radiates heat as light. The peak wavelength gives the temperature. This is the peak of the Stephan_Boltzmann graph. A vacuum is not a problem. Not for the suns of the universe including ours.

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            TdeF

            I suppose that’s why it is called blackbody radiation. Even a black body radiates, but it looks black because you cannot see infrared. The closest you come is to stand in front of hot coals which are nearly black but you can feel the heat. Heat only passes in conduction, radiation, convection and you can feel the radiation. You can feel it too from buildings at night after a very hot day, heat coming off the wall. Black body radiation.

            However when it reaches a certain temperature, we can see it simply because the radiation frequency reaches the visible spectrum. You get this with electric light bulbs where the filament is black, then red and then brilliant. It was radiating when black, but you could not see it. And lightbulbs can work in a vacuum.

            Maybe you are familiar with electric elements on a stove. Do not touch them, even if they look black or deep red.

            Another case is with infrared cameras or infrared vision where you can see humans as radiators of infrared. The atmosphere plays no direct part in this.

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            • #
              Analitik

              Not quite. A blackbody is named as such because it would be a perfect absorber of radiation at absolute zero so it would appear black across the total spectrum.

              Conversely but rather non-intuitively, a blackbody is also a perfect radiator at non-zero temperatures with its spectrum defined according to Plank’s Law.

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                TdeF

                Thanks. As the perfect absorber of radiation, that is the definition of black as no colour would be reflected and it would not radiate any energy at absolute zero. So it would appear black. That makes sense.

                At non zero temperatures, Max Plack solved the ultaviolet catastrophe, a problem that total radiated energy should go up infinitely as temperature went up. He did this by proposing that you reached a point where radiation went down when the energy went below a certain amount. This quantization was the foundation of Einstein’s quantum and quantum physics. It meant light was also a particle, not just a wave and the photon was born.

                30

        • #
          AndyG55

          If you want to consider the Earth as being a “black body”…

          … you would probably need to look at a point at the top of the Stratosphere.

          The atmosphere must be considered to be part of the planet.

          Anything else is nonsense because it will not even slightly resemble a black body by definition.

          Anyone want to guess what the temperature at the top of the stratosphere is ! ;-)

          20

          • #
            Analitik

            Albedo would have be zero in order for the earth to be considered a blackbody. Patent nonsense from the very start.

            30

            • #
              Kalm Keith

              :-)
              As in all “warmer science” the use of the Stephan and Boltzman equation has been as a virtue signal rather than as the highly complex tool that it is.

              Their scientific ignorance shines through despite the fact that their minds are completely enclosed in a black-body environment.

              The place that the world is in at the moment is like a tragedy in a sealed black box.

              No light shining in, and a media based descent into hell.

              KK

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    • #
      theRealUniverse

      Please explain how water vapour is a GHG? You have the same problems as the ones with CO2.
      Water vapour just TRANSFER energy in the atmosphere. It has no blanket effect either.

      30

      • #
        TdeF

        Water vapour blocks more of the re-radiated light than CO2. It has a much wider absorption and thus reradiation spectrum. You can see this as water vapour is visible, as clouds, steam, rain, fog. From an aircraft it is brilliant white, reflecting everything. From underneath the clouds, dark even black. So it is the real blanket around the earth and particularly on Venus.

        However CO2 is an invisible greenhouse gas, active only in small parts of the infrared spectrum. Also it is a constant, not forming into clouds. So the effect is constant, where as you have experienced on a cloudy day, far less light reaches the surface. The corollary of this is that if CO2 is a blind, a 50% increase in the thickness of the blind makes little difference. So the effect of CO2 increases is far less than having no CO2 at all. Thus the panic about further CO2 increases is illogical.

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  • #
    Lionell Griffith

    “You do not address these crucial claims.”

    Unfounded and unsubstantiated claims can be dismissed without foundation or substantiation.

    It is up to the people making said claims to demonstrate substantially the foundations of those claims. They have not and, the evidence that exists to the contrary says, they cannot. So they are properly dismissed without further comment!

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    • #
      yarpos

      All that is nice and understood here. However the general public are the people you would wish to win over and the propaganda machine tells them that “the Science” says so. Being dismissive just allows the denier card to be played. We constantly say its not so and importantly, why.

      I think KK stream of logic above is a good approach to keeping things in context and raise other issues such as water vapour that never get any attention. All you can hope for is to spark awareness not to cover every point. If we save just one kiddie, it will be worth it.

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      • #
        Lionell Griffith

        Agreed but ….

        The climate alarmists don’t care about facts, evidence, and substantial demonstrations. They care only about their ability to destroy technological civilization and, as a consequence, mankind.

        Do not attribute honorable motives to them. Every one of their policy proposals is based upon heavy handed top down power and control and is therefor designed to fail to meet their stated goals. They will destroy the ability of modern man to live as modern man and, ultimately to live any kind of life above that of a rat or cockroach.

        In fact, they hate being human so much they are quite willing to be destroyed if the rest of mankind can be destroyed along with them. Not to save the earth or other life forms but just to demonstrate their power to destroy.

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        • #
          OriginalSteve

          So you use their own Saul Alynski tactic bringing it back to this point *every* time ( i.e. the Left lacking scientific knowledge, ergo, how can they be authorative? ) ……… and never let up.

          20

          • #
            Lionell Griffith

            You are right. I will never let up.

            PS: I made a study of “community organization” and Saul Alynski in the mid 1970′s in one weekend. I wrote a paper, received a B+ for the class, and never attended even one class. I have no problem using it as a weapon to fight the so called modern day practitioners of his craft. They are rank amateurs and ineffective pretenders.

            30

          • #
            Kalm Keith

            Steve, I think that one of the main things that comes out of this concerns our responses.

            Lionell implies that we are not obliged to jump at and respond to every warmer twist in their pronouncements.

            My own recent comment is saying, let’s stop for a moment and go back to the foundations of their claims.

            There are No foundations and on top of this the claims can be seen as inherently nutty by anyone with the appropriate training.

            As is stated above the obligation rests with the claimants to show the proof.

            They can’t do that but they do get very indignant and aggressive which has nothing to do with truth or science.

            KK

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    • #
      Graeme No.3

      Interesting. So Peter Fritz has Arrhenius and Hansen (and other data fakers at NASA) on his side.

      While on our side we have Angström (and several others), Krondratyev, Rasool & Schneider (NASA) and some fellow called Einstein.

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      • #
        AndyG55

        Arrhenius used a glass bottle.

        Now while it is obvious PF’s mind lives in the bottom of a glass bottle,

        … a glass bottle is certainly does NOT represent the Earth’s atmosphere.

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        • #
          Graeme No.3

          He also ignored every other gas or water vapour as Angstöm and several other pointed out at the time.
          And his claim that 50,000 p.p.m. of CO2 would end the Ice Age was theoretical. The last time the Earth had 50,000 p.p.m. of CO2 it was an IceBall, but that was a long time ago when the sun was cooler, the days were shorter and the Moon was closer.

          40

        • #
          glen Michel

          As per the Mythbuster program some years ago. Heat up a jar full of CO2.

          01

          • #
            StephenP

            Instead of filling a gas jar with CO2 to show the effect of heating, they should have taken 2 jars each of 10 litres, one with air with a normal CO2 level which would have contained, if my calculations are right, 4 ml of CO2, and the other with air and an additional 4 ml of CO2 to show the effect of doubling the level of CO2 in the atmosphere. Then see what the effect is.

            00

      • #
        Another Ian

        Ummm! Re Hansen for support – a recent posting was trying to work out how Hansen got one of his “numbers”. One comment was

        “He needed that number so he just worked backwards till he got it”

        10

    • #
      Lionell Griffith

      Yes, maybe not.

      Keep in mind that it was quite a few years before E=MC^2 was derived and proved. So no one at that time had even a basic understanding how the sun could provide so much energy for such a long time. Hence Arrhenius had to hope but did not know that the sun could provide sufficient energy for many 10,000 year cycles. Which he held as necessary so earth’s oceans could boil.

      Thus his prediction was a wild a** guess not substantially different from the climate catastrophe alarmists guesses of today.

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      • #
        Graeme No.3

        The equation for Special relativity was published in 1905. Perhaps you are thinking of General relativity published in 1915, and proved in 1919?
        By the time Arrhenius was predicting the Heat Death, the Earth was thought to be hundreds of millions of years old. The actual timing of Ice Age interglacials was less well known. It wouldn’t matter as Arrhenius was an arrogant type who wouldn’t change his mind. He left a series of blunders behind him after early good work, which seems to have given him an exaggerated sense of infallibility, and a refusal to accept facts. Nor, ironically, was he at all keen to accept radiation physics. He used his position on the Nobel Committee for slighting those he disagreed with, and he attracted lots of adversaries throughout his career.
        You can rely on his initial work on ions in solution (although later modified by others) and his analysis of CO2 in air as 295±2 p.p.m. in 1895. As for his ideas on racial purity, and the idea of passing electricity through school kids to make them brighter, they belong in the dustbin. On second thoughts perhaps the latter idea might have merit and get Australia’s schools back above the level of Uzbekistan, starting with many secondary school teachers.

        20

        • #
          Lionell Griffith

          What they thought was largely irrelevant. It was what they could demonstrate that counted.

          The equation, though published in 1905, was not demonstrated until years later. Please note than 1905 was later than 1901 – four years later in fact.

          Arrhenius was guessing. That wild a** guess was picked up by the climate alarmists who used it as the bases of the false to fact “greenhouse effect”. For which we are expected to pay endless trillions to counter. Of that, the climate alarmists get billions to do endless research on something they say is settled.

          So why the quibble?

          00

  • #
    el gordo

    ‘Some corals can recover after massive mortality episodes caused by the water temperature rise. This survival mechanism in the marine environment -known as rejuvenation – had only been described in some fossil corals so far.’ (wuwt)

    Coral bleaching not caused by warm water, the main culprit being exposure to the elements.

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    • #
      AndyG55

      “the main culprit being exposure to the elements.”

      Which tends to happen in El Nino events as the sea levels on the western side of the Pacific are drawn down, exposing the corals to longer periods of direct sunlight.

      70

      • #
        el gordo

        They are implying that it was a marine heatwave and had nothing to do with a momentary sea level fall. On this they maybe correct, I’ll follow it up.

        00

        • #
          Ian G

          An interesting article re mangrove swamp drying up on the Limmen river on the Gulf of Carpentaria.
          Apparently the mangrove has dried up due to drop in sea levels.
          Then they say it will be ruined by rising sea levels.
          https://www.abc.net.au/news/2019-10-14/climate-change-mangrove-traditional-owners-call-for-action/11598238
          Read the article and shake your head.

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          • #
            el gordo

            It was a strong El Nino, but was the nursery radiated after a momentary drop in sea level, or perhaps a marine heatwave did the damage?

            00

          • #
            glen Michel

            The Gulf of Carpentaria is shallow and lacks any driving currents. On neap tides and strong SE winds in the cooler months, the prevailing winds actually arrest the flood tide. My experience of the Karumba Burketown area. Limmen is to 5he NW of Borroloola. Still, mangrove dieback happens.As for the ABC bit about mangroves moving inland is pure guff as the mangrove colonises far inland anyway. I mean, these people have the life experience of a quark.

            31

  • #
    David-of-Cooyal-in-Oz

    Morning all,
    I guess this is good news for our US friends, but bad for us in Oz:

    ” Mann, who will take up a visiting professorship at the University of New South Wales in 2020, insists the world doesn’t need “a miracle” to avert the most devastating climate change scenarios. “We have the solution in our hands. We simply need to find the political will to provide the incentives necessary to transition away from fossil fuels to renewable energy.” ”

    Source, towards the end:
    http://www.smh.com.au/environment/climate-change/why-doomism-is-part-of-the-latest-frontier-in-the-climate-wars-20191018-p531y7.html?btis

    Cheers
    Dave B

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    • #
      Kalm Keith

      Disgusting.

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      • #
        glen Michel

        Litigious bigot. His rebarbative dial brings on thoughts of his deliberate attempts to subvert science and decency. Shows how UNSW and the tertiary institutions generally are politically motivated and compromised.

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    • #
      Yonniestone

      A few of my old relatives had to deal with people that tried to enforce solutions and political will on those that valued freedom, I hope Mr Mann realises their methods have not been forgotten.

      100

      • #
        OriginalSteve

        My uncle escaped from communist Hungary as a child…funnily enough, he doesn’t want to “escape” back to communism…..

        You can only handle bread lines, disappearances, secret police, controlled internal travel, 24×7 state propaganda and no freedoms for so long before you lose the appetite for slavery….

        180

    • #
      Serp

      Where’s the outcry and the visa cancellation in response to it? Oh yeah, that’s the tactics of his supporters…

      110

      • #
        el gordo

        We need to discuss our tactics and it should be completely fresh, no protest marching. He is sitting pretty for a satirical assault.

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        • #
          Greg in NZ

          Gore Effect; Greta Effect; Mann Effect: so much for 20:20 vision –

          Snow to 600m, hail, cold cold SWers, more snow… How dare they call it Sudden Strato-blahblah Worming!

          https://www.metservice.com/maps-radar/rain-forecast/rain-forecast-3-day

          Scroll thru’ to 7am or 10am Wed 23 Oct (Met link above) and watch the PURPLE SNOW fall on BOTH our (main) islands’ high country this week. I tells ya, we’ll be snowboarding till Christmas Day in the southern hemisphere, woohoo! Mickey Mann Mouse don’t know diddley.

          * Note to US/UK/etc readers: NZ used to be governed by NSW in the 1800s till we grew some avocados and went independent; then the Oz banks took us over again (Roger Award 1984) and hello Cømmønwealth Crøckery Part 2.020

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  • #
    Travis T. Jones

    Settled science update:

    An international research team unearthed new evidence in Greece proving that the island of Naxos was inhabited by Neanderthals and earlier humans at least 200,000 years ago, tens of thousands of years earlier than previously believed.

    If true, this could change world history, as scholars have long argued that only modern humans (Homo sapiens) were able to make boats and colonise islands.

    Previously, the sea was considered a barrier, with the land bridge of Thrace the only possible path.

    At certain times of the Ice Age the sea was much lower exposing a land route between the continents that would have allowed early prehistoric populations to walk to Stelida, and an alternative migration route connecting Europe and Africa.”

    https://archaeologynewsnetwork.blogspot.com/2019/10/early-humans-travelled-to-greek-islands.html#QqfKr40HeQBQOgXs.97

    If only they had a carbon (sic) tax, sunbeam & seabreeze collectors, we would have a stable climate now … and they would have survived!

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    • #
      Graeme No.3

      Travis:

      The ‘Hobbits’ of Flores were there at least 100,000 years ago and probably a lot earlier.
      They would have had to cross deep water even during ice ages. At least 24km. – a long swim.
      https://australianmuseum.net.au/learn/science/human-evolution/homo-floresiensis/

      “When first discovered, it was suggested that H. floresiensis was possibly descended from Javanese H. erectus. However, more detailed analysis of skeletal remains has uncovered traits more archaic than Asian H. erectus and more similar to australopithecines, H. habilis or the hominins from Dmanisi in Georgia (classified as Homo ergaster or Homo georgicus). Most scientists that accept H. floresiensis as a legitimate species now think its ancestor may have come from an early African dispersal by a primitive Homo species similar in appearance to H. habilis or the Dmanisi hominins. This means that it shared a common ancestor with Asian H. erectus but was not descended from it.”
      As those possible ancestors date back well over a million years it appears that rafts were an old invention.

      50

      • #
        Graeme No.3

        And your are right, Science has a habit of being changed unlike Climate Science which we are told repeatedly is settled.

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        • #
          Greg in NZ

          As a kid I could stare at maps for hours, imagining the tide gone out, and all that seabed dry…

          Oh! The places you shall go! Dr Seuss.

          20

      • #
        glen Michel

        Michael Moorwood was well known to me at UNE. A more diligent scientist you wouldn’t find. I was tempted to travel to Flores with a team in 1991 but had a conflict in timetable. There is much about sub- species of Denisovan man. Evidence the little people of the wet tropics of QLD.

        22

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  • #
    Another Ian

    “It’s understandable a Eurosceptic should be sceptical”

    http://catallaxyfiles.com/2019/10/20/its-understandable-a-eurosceptic-should-be-sceptical/

    “Is it really as straightforward as that? Who any longer can you trust?”

    40

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  • #
    Peter Fitzroy

    I have been reading up on the Indian Ocean Dipole (IOD) which, when looking at the history, is a better predictor of rainfall than the better known ENSO. I would think that given the major atmospheric air circulations (roaring 40′s etc) that this would be a better gauge for potential drought or normal conditions than ENSO

    52

    • #
      RicDre

      “I have been reading up on the Indian Ocean Dipole…”

      That sounds very interesting…do you have any links or books you would recommend on the subject?

      30

    • #
      AndyG55

      is a better predictor of rainfall than the better known ENSO

      Depends what part of Australia you are in.

      40

      • #
        Peter Fitzroy

        Well, yes Andy, but anywhere away from the monsoons, have a general west to east procession of highs and lows, with the average latitude moving seasonally north to south. That is not to dismiss the tropics, but you can see that weather patterns in the Indian Ocean will drift over most of Australia, and it is this that has the major impact on drought.

        60

        • #
          Graeme#4

          Hmm. Thanks for raising this discussion Peter, very interesting. However, I must disagree with some of these conclusions, and my main reason for disagreement is that here in WA, I haven’t noticed any significant changes to our summer heat and number of cyclones since the last strong La Niña, around 1998. I don’t know whether the IOD was strongly negative at the same time.

          30

          • #
            Peter Fitzroy

            Yes, the lack of granularity is always going to be a problem for us in the southern hemisphere, where oceans make up the majority of the surface area, and have very poor instrumentation. If we lived in europe, as an example, this is less of a problem. Also Australia is huge, and is under the influence of multiple major weather systems. Still, it is a good 1st approximation, and that is something.

            30

            • #
              Graeme#4

              Talking about granularity Peter, I believe you mentioned 500 km grids in previous emails. I meant to comment that I believe most GCM models now use 100 km grids. If I’m wrong, somebody please correct me.

              20

            • #
              Graeme#4

              Talking about granularity Peter, I believe you mentioned 500 km grids in previous emails. I meant to comment that I believe most GCM models now use 100 km grids. If I’m wrong, somebody please correct me.

              00

              • #
                Peter Fitzroy

                I did mention a 500k grid size, which is mainly used in oceanic work. the most common size for climate and on land is as you say 200k (https://apo.org.au/sites/default/files/resource-files/2015/01/apo-nid52475-1241226.pdf), which is about 2 degrees Latitude, to .05 Degrees, or about 5k for weather.
                Grid sizes are indeed shrinking as computational techniques, and hardware improve but…

                There is alway a problem with the measurements(location, height above sea level, density), and their application to the various grids. At present, and in Australia and the Southern Hemisphere in particular) the density of recording stations is very low, which means that for all the grid sizes, value estimates are made for a high proportion of the grids.

                In any event smaller grids will give you a better forecast, limited by the real data, which is why the small grids are used for weather.

                10

              • #
                Graeme#4

                Thanks for the clarification and reference document Peter.

                10

        • #
          AndyG55

          It is great that you are finally realising that the climate of Australia is caused by ocean oscillations and not by atmospheric CO2 :-)

          Well done.

          Keep trying to learn.

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        • #
          el gordo

          ‘ … moving seasonally north to south.’

          That all came to an end a few years ago, with the collapse of the subtropical ridge. Look at a synoptic any time you like and witness climate change, blocking highs are all over the place.

          The big takeout for me is the cool onshore winds along the Queensland coast.

          10

          • #
            Greg in NZ

            Lived on the Sunny Coast 30 years ago, lots of ‘cool onshore winds‘ (SE) back then, apart from the odd, blessed, summer troppo (cyclone) pushing in a decent grunty groundswell – think Noosa going off (before the crowds arrived).

            Hang on, thirty years ago… didn’t the WMO say a ‘climate cycle’ lasted 30 years?

            10

    • #
      Travis T. Jones

      BoM; I blamed carbon (sic) once upon-a-time, but I think I got away with it …

      BoM, Climate and Water Outlook, issued 17 October 2019:

      (0.11), Q. What’s driving the climate at the moment?

      A. We’re seeing some of the strongest values for the Indian Ocean Dipole that we’ve seen this century.”

      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IkfMTotNvJ4&list=PLbKuJrA7Vp7naJL31deES8QAV5E0q6U_H&index=2&t=0s

      30

      • #
        Graeme#4

        While that was an interesting presentation from BOM, I believe that it ignored the significant summer changes we have seen in the SW corner of WA over the last three summers, resulting in cooler and more humid conditions. The presentation did indicate a possibility of higher than average rainfall in the bottom of this SW corner though, without explaining why. I believe explaining why might be beyond BOM capabilities at the moment.

        60

        • #
          el gordo

          BoM knows that the collapse in intensity of the subtropical ridge is a showstopper, but they remain quiet on the subject and say ‘look over there at the IOD.’ The rains in SWWA returned around three years ago, along with the cooler weather, and it didn’t fit the global warming script.

          Global cooling has begun and the midlatitudes will feel the brunt, but I expect nothing more than a return to the 1950s and 60s.

          50

          • #
            Peter Fitzroy

            Well, the articles I looked at were focused on the millennium drought, and the correlation to the ODI. But, of course, as the superannuation ads say ‘past performance should not be taken as a predictor of future performance’

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            • #
              Graeme#4

              When I mention the severe 3-4 year drought in WA’s northern Wheatbelt in the early 70s, everybody looks at me in disbelief. But I visited the area at that time and saw nothing but empty dry dusty land. Passed through the same area a few weeks ago and wheat and canola to the horizon.

              50

          • #
            Graeme#4

            I think that was always the prediction for this cooler period EG, only a minor one and not as deep as the 200-year cycle. Still, it will must mean that the BOM will eventually have to acknowledge the lack of continual warming, hence no CO2 effect.

            30

          • #
            Peter Fitzroy

            I’m less sure, the IOD seams to be a player here (subtropical ridge) – so, if my guess is correct, watching that might be more informative, as it is the mother of our weather patterns

            10

      • #
        Bill in Oz

        Meanwhile Ken Stewart is continuing his investigation of the BOM’s weather stations across Australia. So far 147 BOM weather stations are NOT compliant with BOM’s own guidelines.
        This is ( currently ) a FAIL rate of 21% of all stations examined so far.
        And more to come !

        But this youtube video does show us
        Where BOM is spending it’s money
        On high tech stuff that never gets close to the ground !
        I wonder when these two presenters at BOM last actually went & checked out
        Some of their weather stations.
        I doubt they have ever done it.

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    • #
      Graeme#4

      Although I haven’t researched it, I believe that WA also has more cyclones during a La Niña and negative IOD. And Perth has longer heat waves, because the summer weather changes are pushed down below WA. Thankfully this hasn’t occurred for a very long time.

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    • #

      “Although it is widely accepted that the climate change over the past 50 years is attributed to human influence, we present the case that local climate change in the tropical Pacific may be due to changes in the Earth’s magnetic field strength.
      https://www.researchgate.net/publication/41625379_Are_changes_of_the_geomagnetic_field_intensity_related_to_changes_of_the_tropical_Pacific_sea-level_pressure_during_the_last_50_years

      “The weather and
      climate system are influenced by local (inter-island interaction), regional
      (monsoon system) and global condition such as El Nino Southern Oscillation
      (ENSO), Indian Ocean Dipole (IOD) and also solar activity. In this study we
      present possible influence of solar activity on Indonesia rainfall by using
      Outgoing Longwave Radiation (OLR) satellite data from NOAA (National
      Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration).”
      http://www.stil.bas.bg/ISWI/PDFs/ISWI-Egypt2010-Proceeding.pdf

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    • #
      Greg in NZ

      With the luxury of today’s cartography/satellite technology, how straight is Magellan’s Strait!

      Somewhat the antithesis to the Magallanes fold and thrust belt and that warped/twisted gap between Tierra del Fuego and the Antarctic Peninsula – the Land(s) of Fire via the South Sandwich Islands.

      Mar Pacifico? Peaceful Sea? Yeah right.

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  • #
    Another Ian

    Some thoughts on using windmills to move water from Lake Argyle to the MDB (Moree for this example}

    Lake Argyle 96 m above sea level
    Moree 209 m

    So need to raise water 113 m

    Lake Argyle hydro discharge approx 1400 ML/day, which will run Ord 1 and 2, so assume 1000 ML/d for a reasonable irrigation patch (and as it is a good round number}

    1000 ML = 219969248 imp gallons (from an on-line converter)

    From a Southern Cross catalogue

    25 foot wheel “R Pattern)windmill

    10 inch pump approx 52900 gallons/day at 45 foot (13.7m) head

    14 inch pump approx 104500 gallons/day at 23 foot (7.6 m) head

    Thus to lift 1000 ML we need

    10 inch pump 4158 mills for 13.7 m lift or

    14 inch pump 2105 mills for 7.6 m lift

    For the 113 m difference in height

    10 inch pump 34296 mills

    14 inch pump 29470 mills

    Without minor problems of storage basins to cater for winds that aren’t always blowing and other natural vaguries

    Meaning that a very experienced cat herder would be required to run that project.

    And Southern Cross no longer make “R Pattern” mills

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    • #
      Hanrahan

      Instead of moving the water to the farms, why not move the farms to the water?

      BTW Hells Gate has an elevation of 600 M and is on the west of the Divide. It seems these two are the only possible water sources for any viable Bradfield scheme, which I think is a pipe dream anyway.

      40

    • #
      beowulf

      Exactly Ian, and that calculation is only dealing with suction head/static head to equivalent height. If you’re going to make water run from Lake Argyle to Moree, it has to make it over the high country near the Alice which is up to 500m elevation, or have a much longer channel skirting way to the north which is still 300m high, so roughly double your (approx 100m static head) calculation as well. It would be easier to just jack up Western Australia to make the water run eastwards.

      As I have previously said, if you use windmills they either need to be in phase from one end of the reticulation scheme to the other (ie all have wind at the same time) or you need huge storage at each successive windmill to allow for some pumping and some not. It just adds to the farce.

      Some here previously suggested open, lined channels and gravity feed. Australia already has massive irrigation water loss issues with open channels (seepage and evaporation) in existing irrigation areas and that’s in country far more congenial than the western deserts. We don’t need more wasted water. If you’re going to do it, pipes are the way to go and that’s going to mean friction losses and that in turn means ginormous electric pumps, and that implies the need for real power, not wind or solar.

      Hanrahan, it’s not quite as simple as moving the farms. A lot of crops are not suited to the tropical north. It’s not only the water. If you’re growing stuff for Asia, the Ord is the place to farm, but apart from Perth, the nation’s markets are all in the east and transport cost is a killer. Yes we fly in peaches from California or whatever, but they are out of season and hellishly expensive. Can’t do that with basic staples.

      As far as I’m concerned the original Bradfield scheme would be a waste of money and effort too because it was going to gravity-feed its water towards Lake Eyre, for what?

      10

      • #
        Graeme#4

        WA still pumps water all the way from Perth’s foothills east to Kalgoorlie and down to Esperance, about 930 kms. Abundant gas in the NT for pumps.
        There was a proposal to convey water from NW WA to Perth using a plastic-lined channel, but don’t know the feasibility of this. I know that Phoenix obtains its water from the Colarado River using a large channel, which I estimate would be 400 kms at its closest point.

        00

        • #
          Another Ian

          Might want to be

          An Alaskan example – a 25,000 hp Rolls Royce turbine on a pump Didn’t specify what or capacity) Point 6 on the start up list was

          “Order 100,000 gallons”

          10

      • #
        Chad

        The “ revised Bradfield” scheme….tunneled from Hells Gate via existing reives and a few canals (capped ?) has been thouroughly researched and costed by experienced civil engineers and hydrologists etc. Its a $6 bn viable project with huge potential outcomes for agriculture and economic development of inland Australia.
        It just needs a leader with vision to make it happen……
        …….crickets ??

        10

        • #
          Graeme#4

          Is there a document on this proposal that can be looked at?

          00

          • #
            Chad

            This is just a short review
            I will try to track down the full QL2019 Group plan.

            The plan being put forward by the Queensland 2019 Group builds on the work already under way, but wants a bigger, 120-metre high dam at Hell’s Gate to impound the water needed for its inland ambitions. It would augment the supply by tapping waters from the Tully, South Johnstone and Herbert rivers. Downstream from the dam and its irrigation works, the water would be tunnelled through the Great Dividing Range for Stage 1 – to develop fertile black soil country from Charters Towers to Richmond. Stage 2 would take surplus water from the Thomson River to the Warrego to benefit the ailing Murray-Darling system.

            https://quadrant.org.au/opinion/doomed-planet/2019/02/the-bradfield-scheme-reborn/

            10

            • #
              Another Ian

              ” thouroughly researched and costed by experienced civil engineers and hydrologists etc. ”

              And did they happen to mention the salt layer under a lot of those central Qld mitchell grass soils?

              10

              • #
                Chad

                Yes, i remember it being discussed when interviewed on Sky.
                But since the basic plan is to use existing river runs and some new canals/ pipes, , what issues are you expecting ?
                PS.. costing on the plan seems to be reported differently in some articles ?

                10

            • #
              Graeme#4

              Thanks Brad. Should be an interesting read.

              10

  • #
    David Maddison

    As if the alteration of the land temperature record to “prove” supposed anthropogenic warming wasn’t bad enough, now satellite temperature data is being altered to match the AGW hypothesis.

    Video by Tony Heller.

    https://youtu.be/bOHrYY3yAGE

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    • #
      Bill in Oz

      It’s ‘logical’ for these liars to do this.
      If they allow the satellite data to uncorrupted
      They are shown up as incompetent liars.
      That would mean an awful loss of prestige & face.

      Sooooooo !
      Best to adjust the satellite data
      And keep the climate hoax going a while longer

      30

    • #
      theRealUniverse

      Yes the satellite data used to be the ‘thorn in the side’ of AGW, hence UAH data, but now looks like you cant trust ANY data ANY source as having NOT been ‘fiddled’. Possible exception of historic geophysical data that is buried in some archive before this nonsense took over geoscience.

      30

  • #
    beowulf

    Given that a large chunk of California had its power shut off for a week or so to stop the possibility of arcing powerlines sparking bushfires with that being blamed for causing one major outbreak last year, I imagine the entire Australian wind turbine fleet will be shut down for the duration of our bushfire season based on the precautionary principle we hear so much about.

    I say this based on known instances of turbines starting bushfires here:

     Ten Mile Lagoon in Western Australia in the mid-1990s;
     Lake Bonney, Millicent (SA) in January 2006;
     Cathedral Rocks Wind Farm, Port Lincoln (SA) in February 2009;
     Starfish Hill (SA) in November 2010

    “On arrival [at Starfish Hill], CFS officers could do little but watch the blaze from half a kilometre away, as the situation was deemed too dangerous to approach. When Work Safe arrived to the scene, CFS officers were told to retreat a further 500 metres away from the fire, as the blades continued to spin.”
    “There were tips of the blades flying some distance,” said Mr Crawford. “You could go no closer than a kilometre away.”

    So they couldn’t tackle the surrounding bushfire on the ground until it breached a 1km radius, or a 6km front. Great.

    https://stopthesethings.com/2019/10/16/hometown-hellraisers-self-incinerating-wind-turbines-prove-perfect-wildfire-starters/

    And we mustn’t forget a dishonourable mention for Komrade Turnbull’s baby boy. His Infigen windfarm fire at Currandooley, NSW in January 2017 burnt out 8,400 acres, killed hundreds of sheep and cattle, destroyed 1 home and numerous farm buildings, plus miles of fencing. Watching his antics over the past year, I somehow doubt that Alex had his head hung in shame at any time after the fire. It resulted in a $20 million law suit.

    Rather than the usual turbine nacelle self-immolating, it was blamed on a bird arcing power lines by the company — power lines that were badly designed.

    https://stopthesethings.com/2018/02/06/wind-farm-neighbours-burnt-out-by-bushfire-sparked-by-infigen-pursue-millions-in-nsw-supreme-court/

    Even when turbines aren’t the direct cause of fire, they impede aerial fire-fighting operations because pilots are apparently banned from flying within 3km of wind farms due to turbine danger (turbulence, direct contact with blades in smoky conditions etc).

    Wind turbines: the gift that keeps on giving in so many ways. Just think how deprived we were 20 years ago when all we had was cheap, reliable power, and birds, bats and sleep.

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  • #
    OriginalSteve

    Appears the EU….er…British Parliament…..communists…..are fighting Boris every step of the way…..

    https://www.msn.com/en-au/news/world/brexit-delay-request-sent-to-eu-along-with-letter-arguing-against-it/ar-AAJ1XYZ

    “The British Government has formally asked the European Union for a delay to Brexit — but also sent a letter from Prime Minister Boris Johnson arguing against it.

    “Mr Johnson was forced to request an extension after Parliament voted to delay a decision on whether to back his Brexit deal.

    “A law passed last month compelled the Government to try and postpone Britain’s departure if no deal were agreed to by Saturday night (local time).

    “British media said Mr Johnson made it clear in the correspondence that he personally opposed an extension, with the Prime Minister previously saying he would rather be “dead in a ditch” before asking for a delay.

    “The letter asking for the extension was not signed.

    “It was accompanied by a second letter, signed by Mr Johnson, arguing that delay would “damage the interests if the UK and our EU partners”.

    “EU Council President Donald Tusk tweeted late Saturday: “The extension request has just arrived. I will now start consulting EU leaders on how to react.”

    “Sitting in Parliament on a Saturday for the first time in 37 years, MPs voted to postpone a decision on whether to back a Brexit deal, with the EU withholding their approval until detailed legislation to implement the agreement has been passed.

    “Mr Johnson said he would introduce the legislation to Parliament early next week.

    “The Prime Minister said he would press on with his Brexit strategy “undaunted” despite the setback.

    “”The best thing for the UK and the whole of Europe is for us to leave with this new deal on 31 October,” he told the House of Commons after the vote for the amendment, which passed 322 to 306.

    “”I will not negotiate a delay with the EU and neither does the law compel me to do so.

    “”I will tell our friends and colleagues in the EU exactly what I have told everyone in the last 88 days I have served as Prime Minister; that further delay will be bad for this country, bad for the EU and bad for democracy.”

    “Opposition leader Jeremy Corbyn welcomed the “emphatic decision” from MPs.

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    • #
      RicDre

      “Opposition leader Jeremy Corbyn welcomed the “emphatic decision” from MPs.

      Seems more like and an emphatic non-decision to me.

      50

    • #
      Richard Ilfeld

      There is an old joke whose punchline is “write three letters”.
      The idea that a representative assembly would vote on issues of public policy,
      then return frequently to the public to be approved or disapproved on the
      quality of representation, seems a bit quaint.
      A clearer view suggest that such votes as are taken are often symbolic, and with
      consequences where (in their minds) only credit can devolve on the politicians.
      California can vote to save the planet, while at the same time blaming forces both
      cosmic and comic for failure to cope with the real vicissitudes of nature.

      We depend on governments to fight our wars. We are told that for the duration, we
      have to give up some of our ideas to fight effectively. Even in victory, we don’t get our ideals
      back; power granted is too seductive to release.

      It is no accident that the darling causes of global progressives always take the rhetorical form of a war:
      War on Drugs, War on Poverty, War on Homelessness…..
      thus mastering a hostile climate is an “existential struggle”.
      Clearly the only existential struggle is the effort to capture more of the power of the state and the prosperous spoils of capitalism
      into the clutches of the collective.

      C’om Man! Where else but government can you cause a disaster, then claim you should be given more power so you can fix it.
      And we vote for these turkeys…Like old Ebeneezer we are build the chains of our own bondage one link at a time.
      It is a ponderous chain, indeed, yet but a small coil to that which we will wear if we ever say, yes, ok, please mr. government,
      do whatever you need to do to fix the climate.

      Did you ever stop to think that our only chance to get out of this mess might be the onset of a new ice age?
      My first though is ‘out of the frying pan, int the fire’ but that doesn’t see to be the right metaphor.

      #resist … or is that taken already.

      10

  • #
    pat

    18 Oct: Fox News: Massive car collection seized from owners of bankrupt DC Solar up for auction
    By Gary Gastelu
    An incredible collection of nearly 150 classic and modern cars is coming up for auction, but they each come with a conflicted history.
    The cars were seized by the feds from the owners of DC Solar, who have been accused of running the bankrupt solar-powered generator company as an $800 million Ponzi scheme…

    Jeff and Paulette Carpoff haven’t been charged with any crimes as of yet, according to the U.S. Attoney’s office, but their situation remains under investigation…
    The sale is being handled by the U.S. Marshals Service and Apple Auctioneering Co. in Woodland, Calif…

    DC Solar was a NASCAR sponsor for some time, and the collection reflects an interest in gas-guzzling American performance cars old and new. Along with a 1969 Dodge Daytona and three 1970 Plymouth Superbirds, there’s a 2018 Dodge Challenger SRT Demon and six Ford Mustangs from the 1960s.
    Nevertheless, there are two Teslas and five Chevrolet Volt plug-in hybrids among the lots…

    They also include plenty of vintage pickup trucks, four Hummer H1s and a 1965 Plymouth Fury LAPD tribute car, but it’s one from the other side of the law that’s the most unique model in the bunch.
    It’s a 1978 Pontiac Trans Am that’s not just customized to look like the one from the “Smokey and the Bandit” film, but was once owned by Burt Reynolds himself…
    https://www.foxnews.com/auto/car-collection-seized-bankrupt-d-c-solar-auction

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    pat

    16 Oct: Daily Mail: ‘Your job is to race round aimlessly in a gas-guzzling land rocket’: Lewis Hamilton is ridiculed after telling fans the ‘only way to save the planet’ is by going VEGAN… after making career of driving F1 cars and using private jet to zip across the globe
    •Hamilton made clear his feelings about state of world in posts on Instagram
    •Switched to plant-based diet in 2017 and recently launched a vegan restaurant
    •But he sparked accusations of hypocrisy from Twitter users due to his career
    By Connie Rusk and Rory Ting
    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-7578761/F1-petrolhead-Lewis-Hamilton-tells-fans-vegan.html

    18 Oct: Spiked: Veganism won’t save the planet
    This is a cult of self-righteousness, not a sensible eco-diet.
    by Patrick West
    Three trends this year have proven that the new religion of Gaia has arrived in earnest: environmental catastrophism, the cult of veganism, and the acceptance of outright hypocrisy.
    The first is seen in the emergence of Extinction Rebellion / Cult of Greta, with its heady combination of juvenile sanctimony and rampant exaggeration. The growth of the cult of veganism can be seen in thousands switching to the diet and ‘free-from’ foods; Quorn expanding into the vegan market; the current television advert for Tesco; and in Lewis Hamilton, a hugely rich, one-man gas-guzzler, insisting that veganism is the only way to save the planet.

    The third manifestation can be seen in Madonna, Emma Thompson and Harry, Duke of Sussex, all lecturing us on the need to cut our carbon footprint, while stamping it heavily with their penchant for flying a lot. It also takes us neatly back to Lewis Hamilton…READ ON
    https://www.spiked-online.com/2019/10/18/veganism-wont-save-the-planet/

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  • #
    Rob JM

    Ok folks, I have a bit of a theory on a combined solar/volcanic model of climate.
    Firstly you have solar cycles, that primarily impact via driving ENSO/atmospheric circulation via a UV/ozone mechanism with a bit of help from TSI. Note ENSO is the opposite of what it seems from an atmospheric perspective. El Niño is the energy dissipation stage and La Niña is the energy storage stage. The troposphere is just the meat in the stratosphere/ocean sandwich.
    This explains why solar max in the 50-70 showed atmospheric cooling (anti correlation ) while the long term trend is correlated.

    The 2nd attribute is volcanic disruption of the stratospheric Ozone levels. This both desensitises the UV/Solar response while causing a warming due to reduced cloud cover over the tropics. This resulted in a net radiative imbalance from 92-97 when the climate shifted to a new stable convective regime with the ENSO event..

    The new regime involve increased deep convection with the increase in dry descending air from the stratosphere causing a step like decrease in relative humidity in the upper troposphere, (extra cooling) while also causing a step like reduction of cloud cover in mid to high latitudes. Ie a limited positive cloud feedback in order to sustain the enhanced convection resulting in a stable regime.

    Thoughts?

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    Yonniestone

    Ian Plimer currently on Outsiders Sky speaking so much sense on our climate its incredible, another one of my heroes.

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    pat

    17 Oct: UK Express: Lewis Hamilton slated for being a hypocrite after ‘save our planet’ post sparks fear
    The Formula One superstar has been criticised for telling people going vegan is the ‘only way to truly save our planet’.
    By Chisanga Malata
    In a since-deleted Instagram story update, the Mercedes star described the world as a ‘messed up place’ and claimed some leaders ‘either uneducated or don’t care about the environment at all’.
    Hamilton’s ***heartfelt message caused outrage on social media, with many pointing out he was a frequent user of a private jet, is sponsored by Malaysian gas and oil company Petronas and contributes to tyre and fuel emissions when he races.
    “Lewis Hamilton: Owns a £25 million private jet. Races cars for a living,” read one angry tweet. “Has a £13 million car collection. Owns a £3 million yacht.
    “Avoided taxes on his jet using tax avoidance scheme. Sponsored by Petronas, a Malaysian oil and gas company. Lewis Hamilton is a Grade A tw*t!”…

    A Mercedes spokesperson addressed Hamilton’s post on Wednesday morning, saying: “I think he was referring to environmental issues and not anything related to racing. However, I’m not sure…READ ON
    https://www.express.co.uk/sport/f1-autosport/1191430/Lewis-Hamilton-Formula-One-Instagram-Vegan-Post-F1-News

    ***note the use of “rebel” (XR?) for this whopper:

    16 Oct: Daily Mail: Furious vegans slam Hungry Jack’s for selling a plant-based ‘***Rebel Whopper’ burger that is cooked on the SAME grill as the meat
    •Hungry Jacks come under fire after launching a plant-based burger this week
    •Customers were shocked to learn ‘plant based’ did not equate to vegan
    •The plant patty is cooked on the same broiler that flame grills the meat patty
    By Brittany Chain and Sahar Mourad
    The new ‘Rebel Whopper’ contains a patty made from legumes, sunflower and coconut oils, and tastes just like the real thing according to the burger chain.
    However the ‘made from plants’ burger is not vegan as it contains mayonnaise and is grilled on the same grill as the meat.
    Upset vegans took to social media to vent their frustrations, claiming they were misled by the product’s promotion…
    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-7565035/Hungry-Jacks-plant-based-burger-confusing-customers-not-vegan.html

    the article doesn’t explain the vegan cheeseburger -

    Jun 2018: PlantBasedNews: Australia’s Hungry Jack’s Debuts Vegan Burger
    The burger includes vegan cheese and mayo…veganaise and non-dairy vegan cheese’…

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    pat

    lengthy:

    14 Oct: Medium: Keeping Our Cool
    Air conditioning and a warming planet. It’s a vicious cycle that needs to be broken
    by Ivan Amato
    THE MOONSHOT: As the world warms over the coming years, and as urbanization and incomes rise, the number of room air-conditioning units are expected to soar from today’s 1.2 billion to some 4.5 billion by 2050. More air conditioners beget more global warming begets more air conditioners. Breaking this vicious cycle will take a combination of more efficiency cooling technology with dramatically less climate impact along with economic, policy, educational, and other societal mechanisms that can conspire to deploy the improved technology on a planetary scale.

    THE PHILANTHROPY OPPORTUNITY: Philanthropic giving has enabled coalition-building among the private, environmental, government, industry and other stakeholders who must conspire to deliver the 21st century’s intensifying cooling needs without worsening the global warming crisis…

    “Without cooling, modern life would be impossible.” — Vitalij Pecharsky, U.S. Department of Energy’s Ames Laboratory…READ AL
    https://medium.com/the-moonshot-catalog/keeping-our-cool-9567a3b60431

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    Peter C

    Balloons in the Air; Understanding Weather and Climate
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XfRBr7PEawY

    Thanks to DMA for posting the link yesterday
    http://joannenova.com.au/2019/10/the-guardian-pledge-to-be-a-non-stop-propaganda-sheet-for-the-climate-industry/#comment-2207100

    and to serp for bringing it to my attention and to AndyG55 for recommending that I watch it all the way through, which I have just done. I may have watch it again, or find Ronan and Michael Connelly’s papers.

    One take home message: Increasing the amount of radiative gases in the atmosphere will INCREASE the rate at which heat is transferred from a hot region to a colder region. I take that to mean that radiative gases are cooling gases, not thermal blankets.

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      David Wojick

      Indeed, much of the energy that (thankfully) leaves the Earth system and disappears into space is from radiative gases. I have been told that, if the incoming solar energy did not leave, the oceans would boil in just 300 years.

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    Travis T. Jones

    Astronomers have watched sunspots come and go on the sun’s surface for at least 400 years.

    Now, a team of scientists have discovered what may be the oldest written records of aurorae to date.

    This extends the known timespan of aurora records to about 2,700 years …

    “Historical records of aurorae improve our understanding of the history of solar activity,” study author Hisashi Hayakawa said …

    Earth’s magnetic pole, which affects where aurorae are visible, has moved in the 2,700 years since these observations.

    The researchers compared the timing of these potential aurora records with estimations of solar activity during the time.

    Tree rings from about 660 B.C. show a spike in carbon-14 compared to previous years, so the researchers believe the records they identified may have been of aurorae that came along with that spike in solar activity.

    Ancient Middle Eastern astrologers recorded the oldest-known evidence of aurorae
    http://www.astronomy.com/news/2019/10/ancient-middle-eastern-astrologers-recorded-the-oldest-known-evidence-of-auroras

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      Greg in NZ

      Spotless Days – Current Stretch: 17 days
      2019 total: 216 days (74%)
      2008 total: 268 days (73%)

      https://www.spaceweather.com/

      And just to freak out the snowflakes, here come the: “Orionids are second to none in beauty. They strike Earth’s atmosphere traveling 66 km/s or 148,000 mph. Only the Leonids of November are faster at 72 km/s. Orionids often leave glowing ‘trains’ (incandescent bits of debris in the wake of the meteor) that last for minutes, swirling among some of the brightest stars in the sky”.

      Don’t tell me: our carbon pollution crisis caused this regular spectacular nocturnal light show?

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    Greg Cavanagh

    A Russian documentary on Gretta Thunburg. Please, I recommend a viewing.

    https://youtu.be/SBd6Uj_AGX8

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    pat

    the worst? there are so many contenders, Fiona:

    17 Oct: Guardian: ‘There are no excuses left’: why climate science deniers are running out of rope
    Guardian environment correspondent Fiona Harvey recalls being heckled at the House of Commons and explains how attitudes to climate have shifted in 10 years
    Support Guardian journalism today, by making a single or recurring contribution, or subscribing
    by Fiona Harvey

    The shouted words rang out across the packed parliamentary corridor: “Fiona Harvey is the worst journalist there is. She’s the worst journalist of them all, because she should know better.”
    They were the words of Lord Lawson, former UK chancellor of the exchequer, turned climate denier and now Brexiter, addressing a crowd of more than 100 people trying to cram into a House of Commons hearing on climate change. As listeners craned their necks to hear better, whispering and nudging, he elaborated at length on my insistence on reporting the work of the 97% of the world’s climate scientists whose work shows human responsibility for global heating, and failure to give equal weight to the tiny number of dissenters.

    As the science of climate chaos has become vastly clearer in the past two decades, and the warnings more stark, the rearguard action fought by climate denialists has grown fiercer and their attacks more vicious. Fact-based arguments will never serve their purpose; trolling is the last refuge of the discredited. We can expect much more of the same…

    Our climate knowledge has increased vastly in 15 years. No one can now plausibly say there is not enough data, or that we lack the technology, or that saving the climate is too expensive. All of these pretexts have been exploded by patient scientific work. There are no excuses left and now it is up to journalists to ensure there are no more hiding places either, in the boardrooms, on the websites of fake news, behind the facade of populism. That is what the Guardian has committed to do, with a clear focus on the climate emergency. Even if that upsets some people in the corridors of power: there can be pride in being the worst, if that’s what it means.
    https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2019/oct/17/climate-science-deniers-environment-warning

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    pat

    identity politics still driving The Guardian/XR crazy:

    19 Oct: Guardian: Extinction Rebellion: what price could you pay for taking a stand?
    How being arrested on a climate or anti-Brexit protest could affect your job, mortgage or travel
    by Miles Brignall
    For many people, this weekend could be their first experience of protest, whether on the anti-Brexit march on Saturday or as part of Extinction Rebellion’s rolling campaign…
    Extinction Rebellion launched a wave of civil disobedience on 7 October to highlight the escalating climate emergency, and by yesterday, more than 1,700 people – including the Guardian columnist George Monbiot – had been arrested, with some now facing an anxious wait to find out what comes next.

    Guardian Money has spent the week looking at the possible financial implications of being arrested in this type of protest, and talked to lawyers, experts and those who have put themselves on the line for environmental causes.

    We found that, depending on the outcome of arrests, those involved could face issues with their personal finances, including mortgages, insurance and future employment…
    This article is not designed to put anyone off participating in protests…

    Home insurance
    It may sound ridiculous, but a 70-year-old retired teacher who may have never claimed on their home insurance is unlikely to have their policy renewed once they reveal they have an unspent conviction…
    What about my credit file, bank account and mortgage application?…

    Future travel or work abroad could be affected
    Generally, anyone travelling to the US for less than 90 days can travel under the visa waiver programme. However, if you have been arrested, you are ineligible to travel under the scheme, and will have to apply to the US embassy for a visa…ETC ETC
    https://www.theguardian.com/money/2019/oct/19/arrested-extinction-rebellion-brexit-job-cash-travel

    19 Oct: Guardian: When I look at Extinction Rebellion, all I see is white faces. That has to change
    XR must realise its lack of diversity, middle-class image and glamorisation of arrest puts young black and brown people off
    by Athian Akec
    (***Athian Akec is the UK Youth Parliament member for Camden and a campaigner on knife crime, Brexit and climate change)
    Some Extinction Rebellion activists present climate warming as a disaster waiting to happen. But for my cousins in the global south, the dystopian future has already arrived… Last week, beneath the cloudy skies of north-west London, I asked some of my comprehensive school classmates what they thought about Extinction Rebellion…

    Meanwhile, the tactic of being purposely arrested strikes an uncomfortable note for many people of colour, given the adverse experiences people in my community have had with the police…
    One friend of mine was stop-and-searched by the police 12 times last year. When I told him that the Extinction Rebellion protesters were purposefully getting themselves arrested, he rolled his eyes in sheer irritation. “That’s not an option for black people,” he said, adding that if he was arrested, the police would undoubtedly treat him differently, and his future career prospects might also be destroyed. The tactic of deliberately seeking arrest has further alienated disenfranchised communities like mine who, across generations, have had bad experiences with the police…

    There needs to be a radical change in messaging: less glamorisation of arrest and emphasis on blind disruption, as seen on the tube in London this week…
    https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2019/oct/19/extinction-rebellion-white-faces-diversity

    ***altho rarely reported, there are a couple of instances where the writer Athian is described as Labour, plus there’s this indication:

    PIC: Youth MP Athian Akec with former Downing Street Press Secretary Alastair Campbell at the Camden Youth Shout Out event.
    https://www.flickr.com/photos/camdencouncil/45962648582

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    pat

    18 Oct: Axios: Mulvaney says climate change will not be on agenda for G7 summit (10-12 June 2020)
    Acting White House Chief of Staff Mick Mulvaney said Thursday that climate change will not be on the agenda at next year’s G7 summit, which will be hosted at the Trump National Doral Miami resort.
    The big picture: Trump has been isolated as the sole leader in the G7 who does not believe in climate science…
    Between the lines: Miami itself is already suffering from the effects of climate change and is projected to see “anywhere from 1 to 3 feet of sea level rise by 2060,” according to NPR (LINK)…
    https://www.axios.com/mulvaney-climate-change-g7-doral-miami-resort-71cda526-ce9d-4e97-b396-b04bc70ce40e.html

    four WaPo writers for this?

    17 Oct: WaPo Capital Weather Gang: Miami grapples with rising seas and stifling heat. But climate change won’t be on the G-7 agenda at Trump’s Doral resort
    Topic will be ignored despite city’s struggles with climate impacts at start of hurricane season
    By Andrew Freedman, Josh Dawsey and Juliet Eilperin; Matthew Cappucci contributed to this report
    “Climate change will not be on the agenda,” Mulvaney said…
    Trump has consistently questioned the overwhelming scientific consensus that human-caused emissions of greenhouse gases are causing global temperatures to increase, ice caps to melt, sea levels to rise, and extreme weather events such as heat waves to become more severe and frequent…
    In private, he is openly derisive of climate change — and even encouraged former Environmental Protection Agency administrator Scott Pruitt to go on television and make the argument against it, advisers said. “It was one of their main bonding issues,” said a former EPA official who spoke on the condition of anonymity…

    However, it may be difficult for leaders to ignore climate change during their stay at Doral. Miami’s weather in June typically features hot and humid conditions, with the possibility of an early-season tropical storm or hurricane. Hurricane season, after all, starts June 1. The average daily high temperature in June in Miami since 2000 is 89 degrees, along with an average dew point of 74.5. Those two figures combine to give an average monthly heat index of 99 degrees.

    Leaders of the G-7 nations won’t have to travel far to see the impacts of global warming. The city is under siege from rising sea levels and record heat, with local leaders and state officials taking increasingly drastic steps to reduce “sunny-day flooding” due to natural high tides combined with a climate-change-related rise in sea level…
    https://www.washingtonpost.com/weather/2019/10/17/climate-change-wont-be-g-agenda-trumps-resort-miami-mulvaney-says/

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    pat

    behind paywall:

    17 Oct: UK Telegraph: Extinction Rebellion have turned climate change into a class war
    By Charlotte Gill
    If Extinction Rebellion (XR) protesters were in any doubt of what many people privately think about them, they got a big reality check this morning…
    Quite why the eco-rebels decided that disrupting public transport – surely one of the most environmentally-friendly inventions – was the best route to fight climate change, who knows. It was certainly not the way to enamour hard-working members of the public, many of whom do not have the luxury of hijacking the underground, and squatting in central London…

    17 Oct: New Statesman America: Extinction Rebellion may enrage commuters, but it doesn’t rely on majority support
    Treating XR as just another campaign group trying to sway public opinion misses the point spectacularly.
    by Jasper Jackson (formerly asistant media editor of The Guardian)
    It was, in hindsight, an ill-conceived idea – one that backfired spectacularly. But the crescendo of criticism surrounding the action at Canning Town betrays a fundamental misunderstanding of what XR understands its role to be…

    One of the weakest arguments, and one that was deployed against XR’s previous attempts to disrupt London’s transport network, is that public transport is a bad target because it is environmentally friendly. Disrupting trains could push people to use their cars, both on the day itself and in the longer term, contributing to greater CO2 emissions.
    But Extinction Rebellion have been very clear that individual actions – whether switching to public transport, avoiding flying or going vegan – are a wholly inadequate response to the scale of the climate crisis. Only a complete restructuring of our economy away from fossil fuels, they argue, will deliver the zero emissions society required to prevent our planet growing catastrophically warmer.

    A superficially more compelling argument is that by seriously inconveniencing commuters – many of whom will be in low-wage, insecure jobs – XR will alienate members of the public and prevent it from building widespread support.
    But again, Extinction Rebellion has been clear that its primary goal is not to secure majority support for taking the necessary action to tackle climate change…
    People care about the environment and are worried about a warming planet, but not enough for most to make it the deciding factor in which way they vote…
    Instead, XR’s goal is to cause enough disruption to the economy and the functioning of society that governments are forced to do what is needed to make a dent in global warming…

    One of their influences, Harvard professor Erica Chenoweth, conducted research that suggested mobilising just 3.5 per cent of the population can be enough for a movement to succeed. Creating a minority of committed radicals is seen as a surer route to forcing the actions needed on climate change than a sympathetic and concerned, but distracted and apathetic, majority…

    But treating Extinction Rebellion as just another campaign group trying to sway public opinion misses the point spectacularly.
    XR has looked at decades of efforts to persuade governments, corporations and individuals to take the action necessary to avoid catastrophe, and seen them fail miserably. They believe that they are engaged in a literal rebellion designed to save humanity from itself…
    https://www.newstatesman.com/politics/environment/2019/10/extinction-rebellion-may-enrage-commuters-it-doesnt-rely-majority

    reply to Jasper Jackson’s tweet re the above:
    Laša Baćek: So XR aren’t interested in convincing a majority but in disrupting life until their policies are accepted. I always suspected that ecological movements are covers for snobbish elitism – ‘clean’, ‘green’, ‘safe’, all give that away. But this post actually lays it bare.

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    pat

    Stroud? who would have thought.

    21 Apr: Guardian: Stroud, the gentle Cotswold town that spawned a radical protest
    The founders of Extinction Rebellion dismiss claims that it is merely a product of the Gloucestershire town’s middle-class liberal elite
    by Tom Wall; Additional reporting by Chelsea Mendez
    But the Cotswold town’s independent cafes are bustling with tanned and exhausted Extinction Rebellion Stroudies, who have spent the week bringing parts of London to a standstill and focusing minds on the threats posed by climate breakdown…

    Two of the group’s three founders, Gail Bradbrook and her partner Simon Bramwell, live in the town. Other key local activists include the group’s regional co-ordinator, Katerina Hasapopolous, and ***Labour town councillor Skeena Rathor, who superglued herself to Jeremy Corbyn’s gate last week.

    Bramwell, who was arrested after gluing himself to revolving doors at the oil giant Shell’s headquarters last week, said the idea for Extinction Rebellion emerged at a weekend gathering of about 17 activists at Bradbrook’s council house on the outskirts of Stroud almost exactly a year ago…
    “We decided to throw all of our energy and intelligence at something that could change the planet,” he said…

    They appear to have support on the Green-dominated town council. The mayor, Kevin Cranston (Green Party), is proud the group was born in Stroud: “It is what you would expect from Stroud.” Cranston, a former army helicopter pilot, said the founders deserve a hero’s welcome on returning to town. “I support their aims 100% and don’t have a problem with passive non-violent protest – if that breaks the law, that is their choice. The minor misdemeanours they have committed are trivial in comparison with the far greater crimes committed by those who are destroying the planet.”…
    https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2019/apr/20/stroud-cotswold-town-that-spawned-radical-protest

    7 Oct: NPR: How A Small English Town Spurred The Group That’s Reshaping Global Climate Protests
    by Joanna Kakissis; NPR London producer Sophie Eastaugh contributed reporting in Stroud
    Katerina Hasapopoulos is not your typical rule-breaker. She’s 41, the daughter of immigrants and once a power-lunching marketing director.
    Now, she says, “I’m a rebel. I’m a tree sister. I am an Earth protector.”…
    “Whole businesses have been built on trashing our Earth — the very thing that feeds us, that gives us air,” she says. “Many scientists are telling us that we are already in the sixth mass extinction.”

    Last year, she joined her local environmental group in Stroud, a bohemian town of activists tucked into the rolling hills and daffodils of the Cotswolds in the south of England. That group, Extinction Rebellion, has now grown from a small-town band of determined neighbors super-gluing themselves to local city council buildings to a global movement of environmental demonstrators disrupting dozens of cities so policymakers will address climate change immediately…

    Extinction Rebellion, also known by the abbreviation XR, was launched a year ago in the Stroud living room of Gail Bradbrook, a well-known local activist who had previously campaigned against a local incinerator and fracking…

    Members have also chained and glued themselves to the fence outside the London home of Jeremy Corbyn, the leader of the main opposition Labour Party.
    “His wife wanted us to leave. His aides wanted us to leave. He didn’t speak to us,” ***Skeena Rathor, an XR member and town councilor in Stroud, says of the Corbyn operation. The group ran out of nail polish remover to break down the super glue binding their hands together, she says, “so peeling off hurt a bit.” But it was not in vain. “His neighbors loved us,” she says, smiling…READ ON
    https://www.npr.org/2019/10/07/767711216/how-a-small-english-town-spurred-the-group-thats-reshaping-global-climate-protes

    Wikipedia: Stroud
    Character and amenities
    Stroud has a significant artistic community that dates back to the early 20th century. Jasper Conran called Stroud “the Covent Garden of the Cotswolds”; the Daily Telegraph has referred to it as “the artistic equivalent of bookish Hay-on-Wye”; while the London Evening Standard likened the town to “Notting Hill with wellies”***…

    ***add “The Byron Bay of Blighty”.

    Stroud District Council: Your councillors
    How the Council is made up: Conservative 21, Labour 16, Green 9, Liberal Democrat 2, Conservative (No Group) 1, Independent 2.
    Stroud District Council is led by a cooperative alliance of the Labour, Green and Liberal Democrat parties.

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      pat

      11 Oct: StroudNews&Journal: Extinction Rebellion complains after Piers Morgan grills Stroud campaigner
      A CLIMATE change activist from Stroud locked horns with TV presenter Piers Morgan over the Extinction Rebellion campaign.
      Stroud District councillor ***Skeena Rathor (Labour), who represents Stroud Central ward, appeared on Good Morning Britain to speak about the action currently being undertaken by the group in London…
      Extinction Rebellion has now submitted an official complaint to ITV…

      9 Oct: TWEET: Piers Morgan
      13 times I asked #ExtinctionRebellion co-founder ***Skeena Rathor if she has a TV.
      13 times, she refused to answer.
      The full comical interview:
      VIDEO: 12min15sec
      https://twitter.com/piersmorgan/status/1181886247628939264?lang=en

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      Annie

      Stroud certainly had its ‘Hippy Dippies’ during the time we lived in the Cotswolds. It’s nothing new!

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        pat

        Annie -

        Wikipedia says: The town (Stroud) has the largest and most diverse number of creative artists, musicians and authors outside London.[citation needed]…

        definitely sounds like Byron Bay and its environs.

        would hate to think the Byron Bay mob could pull off what XR has, with the full assistance of the MSM, of course – namely to be said to be leading the world on the “climate protest” front.

        Guardian/BBC and the rest know the origins of XR, and that they are totally UNREPRESENTATIVE of British society as a whole.

        the same could be said of the anti-democratic, anti-Brexit mob – even if they can muster big numbers for a London protest, who also have the almost full support of the FakeNewsMSM.

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    robert rosicka

    Not sure how this story managed to get past the ABC censors but could it be possible that sea levels were once much lower ?

    https://www.abc.net.au/news/2019-10-20/ocean-dig-in-dampier-archipelago-looks-for-ancient-history/11616266

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      This wiki explains what is generally accepted
      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holocene_climatic_optimum

      SL’s were way lower like 100m lower around end last ice age. While in the Holocene climatic optimum when climate was warmer – sea levels were higher by a bit. Around Perth for example the coast may have been nearer Midland. All stock standard geological history stuff.

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        Greg in NZ

        Bumped into geologists all my life – a mention of hills or valleys or strata or harbours and their eyes light up and away we go – none of them ‘believe’ because they know their ‘stock standard geological history stuff‘.

        As a layman geography/map fiend, I (and they) buzz on a common lay-of-the-land lingo while others look at us as if we’re * [insert approved derogatory name of the day * here]. Lived in Margaret River, SW WA mid-80s exploring underground limestone caves, surfing over limestone reefs, climbing around limestone bluffs… great times but – dang! – cold in winter.

        Dem oceans come up, dem oceans go down – just like the land – roll with it or go extinct. And get wet!

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    Roy Hogue

    The following is verbatim from email that reached me just a couple of days ago. I do not know what to think of it but it’s attributed to a specific police officer in Australia by name.

    My only purpose in doing this is to get your opinion as to the veracity of the message. I have not given the name because I don’t want to get anyone in trouble for speaking his opinion. And that happens all too often in this world of ours.

    I know many of you disagree with our Second Amendment and its right to keep and bear arms. I have never said you could not hold those opinions or speak them and I’m not saying that now. We can disagree without becoming disagreeable. My interest now is a simple question, is this message accurate or not? It’s time for everyone to be honest about crime and guns. The stakes are too high.

    I’m not looking for debate but for honest evaluation of the situation. And for the record, stronger gun control here has done nothing useful.

    Hi Yanks,

    I thought you all would like to see the real
    figures from Down Under. It has now been 12 months since gun owners in Australia were forced by a new law to surrender 640,381 personal firearms to be destroyed by our own government, a program costing Australia taxpayers more than $500 million dollars.

    The first year results are now in:
    Australia-wide, homicides are up 6.2 percent,
    Australia-wide, assaults are up 9.6 percent;
    Australia-wide, armed robberies are up 44 percent (yes, 44 percent)!
    In the state of Victoria…..alone, homicides with firearms are now up 300 percent.(Note that while the law-abiding citizens turned them in, the criminals did not and criminals still possess their guns!)
    While figures over the previous 25 years showed a steady
    decrease in armed robbery with firearms, this has changed drastically upward in the past 12 months, since the criminals now are guaranteed that their prey is unarmed.There has also been a dramatic increase in break-ins and assaults of the elderly, while the resident is at home.

    Australian politicians are at a loss to explain how public safety has decreased, after such monumental effort and expense was expended in ‘successfully ridding Australian society of guns….’

    You won’t see this on the American evening news or hear your governor or members of the State Assembly disseminating this information.

    The Australian experience speaks for itself. Guns in the hands of honest citizens save lives and property and, yes, gun-control laws affect only the law-abiding citizens. Take note Americans, before it’s too late!

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      Kalm Keith

      Hi Roy,

      That sounds like something that was made up to fit the purpose.
      Not sure how real it is.

      KK

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      robert rosicka

      Been a while since I last seen the actual stats but some of this sounds about right , we don’t seperate shootings by law enforcement officers so bear that in mind and yes the criminals don’t obey the law .
      As to the confiscation figure I’m at a loss for this one because it’s recent and I’m unaware of any issue except the Adler shotgun which was lever action .
      Looking objectively at it all the ban on semi auto long arms may have been a good thing .

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      yarpos

      I am staunchly pro firearms but that sounds like unreferenced rubbish to me. Some of claims have zero to do with the case being argued eg. assaults and homicides. Homicides up 300% in VIC?? firstly we dont have many homicides in VIC to start with (this isnt Chicago). So of the small number of homicides, a smaller number would be done with a firearm. Its is entirely possible in one year that the gun homicide rate could go up a large % as the base is so small.

      The tone of the note is just play to the rabid pro gunner choir who think that we all had our guns confiscated and firearms dont exist in Oz. A frequent meme you see in their blogs “dont be like Australia” As they say never let reality get in the way of a good story.

      50

    • #
      liberator

      a quick google of “australian police officer denounces gun control email” found that its spam first reported back in 2011. Try Snopes (not always a reliable source for me) – and look up Australian Gun Stats.

      40

    • #
      RickWill

      The cost of Howard’s National Firearm Agreement was AUD230m. It had a dramatic reduction in gun related crime as well as halving the number of gun related suicides. Interestingly the suicide rate for males dropped from 24 per 100k per year to about 15/100k/yr over the decade following the gun buy back legislation but the suicide rate for females hardly changed.

      Some years ago I looked at the US statistics on violent crime and there seemed to be some correlation between low rate of violent crime and more liberal gun laws. This supports the view that guns provide a deterrent. If you are surrounded by suspected gun toting individuals you are probably less inclined to violently attack them. Believe it or not, Maine does not have any permit requirement for carrying a concealed weapon and it has the lowest violent crime rate in the US. Same applies in Vermont and New Hampshire, which are ranked second and third lowest on violent crime. These three states have relatively high rates of gun related suicides though. On the other hand gun ownership is relatively low. About 1 in 4 people have a gun.

      Massachusetts has the lowest rate of gun related deaths at 3.4/100k/yr but its rate of violent crime is 377/100k/yr, which is 3 times the rate of violent crime compared with Vermont. Massachusetts requires a permit to carry a hand gun.

      There are many factors involved but one certain way to reduce gun related deaths is to reduce the availability of guns. That said, much of the USA is a violent place compared with Australia. The number of muders in the USA is 57 times higher than Australia. On a population basis approximately 6 times higher.

      30

      • #
        Kalm Keith

        Good detail.

        00

      • #
        Bobl

        On the other hand Australia and the USA do not share history on this, in the USA where gun ownership has been a right there are 4 guns in circulation for every person. In Australia before the Buyback thee were probably 1 gun for every 10 people. The buyback might have reduced that to 1:20. Many of those are stored in gun club armouries. Guns are a scarce resource here, so much so the bad guys have to import (smuggle) them. In order to steal a privately owned gun on average you’d probably have to rob 30 Homes. That means your average street hood can’t lay his/her hands on a gun. Organised crime in Aus still have guns, but not the incentive to use them (lest they bring attention to their operations). Organised crime gun violence is getting lots on media lately though.

        In the USA however, if you bought back half the guns then you’d still have 2 guns to every person in circulation. You’d still not make guns a scarce resource. You’d still have to only commit 3 or 4 thefts to come across a gun. Plenty to go around to the bad guys, including your average street thug/dealer and the only thing you’d achieve is to disarm the good guys. There is no sense in this either.

        Be careful in trying to apply the Australian experience to the USA the historical context matters.

        This is enough to

        20

        • #
          Kalm Keith

          Well put Bob.
          I have a serious dislike of guns in the community but Australia and the USA have very different histories and current situations so different approaches are needed.

          10

          • #
            Roy Hogue

            Yes, very different. What I dislike the most in my community are the thugs who burglarize, murder and steal — all have happened within a mile of me.

            I have no idea how many of my neighbors are armed or who they are but I don’t fear them. I fear the thug, who these days seems to think it advantageous to kill his victims so they can’t identify their assailant.

            But even more than that I’m beginning to fear this irrational fear of guns. Fear makes very bad decisions.

            00

        • #
          Roy Hogue

          Thank you Bob. I was hoping someone would point out just what you did.

          10

    • #
      Roy Hogue

      Thank you all for your input.

      My own opinion of the message is that it’s a little too convenient for one side of the gun debate here — if you can call it debate, it’s more like hysteria and plain old fear. And candidates for elected office are much too willing to pander to that fear.

      I have been going over this for a while and I find it hard to refute the logic. The Myth That Australia’s Gun Laws Reduced Gun Homicides.

      I would like to hear from anyone now who is willing to read it and comment.

      The objective is still to learn. I’ve found numerous stats but always in my mind I hear this repeating itself, “There are lies, damned lies and statistics.” And if not that, then this, “Figures lie and liars figure.” I’m uneasy with the way anyone with a position makes the other guy out to be an enemy, dead wrong or worse.

      20

  • #
    theRealUniverse

    Thermal radiation is energy transfer by the emission of electromagnetic waves which carry energy away from the emitting object. For ordinary temperatures (less than red hot”), the radiation is in the infrared region of the electromagnetic spectrum. The relationship governing the net radiation from hot objects is called the Stefan-Boltzmann law:
    http://hyperphysics.phy-astr.gsu.edu/hbase/thermo/stefan.html#c1
    http://hyperphysics.phy-astr.gsu.edu/hbase/mod6.html#c1

    10

  • #
    TdeF

    Finally. Greta Thunberg.

    “We cannot allow this crisis to continue to be a partisan, political question,” Thunberg said at the protest. “The climate and ecological crisis is far beyond party politics and the main enemy right now should not be any political opponents, because our main enemy is physics.”

    So Greta, why not ask a physicist? I can give the list of people who are not physicists. Al Gore. Tim Flannery. Will Steffen. All of the Australian Climate Council. All of the media. All of the ABC. All of the parliament, in any country.

    But ask Dr. Will Happer in the US. Dr Ed Berry and thousands more.

    You are forced to listen to the opinions of the Greens who as a communist organization lack any scientists at all. They are using impressionable young people as human shields for their communist plots for violent revolution. Extinction is just a made up story.

    170

    • #
      RicDre

      Maybe someone should tell Greta that at least one “Green” group, Greenpeace, admitted in court that the things they say are “non-verifiable statements of subjective opinion that should not be taken literally”. Maybe that will get her thinking about the things she hears from other “Green” groups.

      https://www.americanexperiment.org/2017/03/sued-defamation-greenpeace-admits-claims-hyperbole-not-factual/

      120

    • #
      Vishnu

      Ah the old ruse – divert to the very annoying AGW personalities and rabid greenies. But it is a ruse – how about the authors of WG1 – wonder why they never get a mention. Perhaps physics?
      There’s probably another universe where republicans got behind climate change science and we are well on the way to reliable 4th generation nuclear.

      015

      • #
        AndyG55

        But its not the real universe is it, vishy.

        The real universe is the one where CO2 is purely plant food and has no measurable effect on the climate.

        90

    • #
      Roy Hogue

      I’m not sure what Greta thinks it is about physics that makes it an enemy. But I’m quite certain that she’ll never get physics to even notice her accusation much less care about it.

      The real problem from this might be followers who now demand changes in the laws of physics. I wouldn’t put it past our modern generation at all.

      110

    • #
      Peter Fitzroy

      how many do you want? Or is it only right thinking physicists, you know the ones that agree with your view? Or will 11,200,000 (according to google scholar) vs 106,000 for the opposite question, those would support your view. Or if you were to randomly pick an atmospheric physicist you would have .9% chance (or 1 in a 100) of them agreeing with you.

      08

      • #
        robert rosicka

        Point one
        Doesn’t matter how many agree , consensus is not science and if it’s a belief it’s not science it’s a religion.

        Point two
        The top of your head!

        70

        • #
          robert rosicka

          Grrrrrr granma check .
          Point two should have read -

          Off the top of your head where does the made up .9% figure come from ?

          30

          • #
            Peter Fitzroy

            Maths Robert. I’m just saying that in legal terms, it is reasonable to form the opinion that 11 million papers on the effect AGW is having, by physicists is a good reason to accept that proposition.

            08

            • #
              robert rosicka

              So it’s not 99% of scientists anymore it’s now 99% of theoretical witch doctors who have put a paper out on CO2 ? Even though these claims include such things as earthquakes are caused by CO2 and other fables .
              Should have stuck to the 97% of scientists meme although it was busted wasn’t it ?

              60

              • #
                Peter Fitzroy

                The question was about physics and AGW, and that is how I answered. But stay wrong.

                05

              • #
                robert rosicka

                And I’m saying that out of those papers on AGW how many are crack pot crazy such as CO2 causes earthquakes?
                At a guess I’d say 100% !

                20

              • #
                AndyG55

                “and that is how I answered”

                Poor PF, you didn’t answer with ANY physics

                You never have.

                You don’t have the remotest clue about physics.

                Why do you choose to remain TOTALLY EMPTY of anything resembling actual science.

                30

            • #
              AndyG55

              Maths.. you have shown you are basically at mediocre junior high level, PF.

              WOW, All those papers and you have yet to produce EVEN ONE that gives empirical evidence of warming by atmospheric CO2. So funny !

              I guess we can put that down to your GROSS INCOMPETENCE, right , PF !

              Real physicists REJECT the “brain-fade” of CO2 warming.

              101

            • #
              robert rosicka

              You can quote as many papers as you like after all there is no actual evidence in any of them just speculation and guessing games .

              70

            • #
              toorightmate

              We had 22,000,000 people in Australia alone KNOWING that Y2K was going to happen – they didn’t just THINK it might happen. They KNEW it would happen.
              Guess what?
              It didn’t happen – you DRONGO.

              60

      • #
        AndyG55

        Poor PF, now tries to fall back on the PATHETIC, ANTI-SCIENCE meme of “consensus”

        /poor sad PF, has no actual science.

        61

        • #
          destroyer D69

          If “concensus”is a true and confirmable(by repeated and verified demonstrations of its truth)scientific tool, then, if the majority of a group reaches a “concensus”that a serviceable and flightworthy Boeing 747 can be constructed from used baby wipes I wold invite them to travel to next climate convocation in one so constructed.

          30

    • #
      Maptram

      Physics would spoil a good story again, at least one or more of the real sciences. A quote from one of the posts below:

      “From the unexpected speed of Arctic warming and the troubling ways that meltwater moves through polar landscapes, researchers now suspect that for every one degree Celsius rise in Earth’s average temperature, permafrost may release the equivalent of four to six years’ worth of coal, oil, and natural gas emissions.”

      The problem is, as shown by physics and/or other sciences, an increase in Earth’s average temperature does not necessarily mean the permafrost will melt. The permafrost will melt when the temperature in the area of the permafrost exceeds melting point, which may or may not happen just because the Earth’s average temperature increases by 1°C. It’s only in the climate models that an increase in the world average temperatures will cause all the Arctic ice and the permafrost to melt

      60

      • #
        Greg in NZ

        Go back to TdeF’s first quoted paragraph, at #39, and laugh:

        ain’t nobody called ‘Greta’ done wrote that gibberish: “partisan, political… protest… politics“.

        It used to be 3 Cs (CCC), now it’s 4 Ps (PPPP)? They’re taking the – proverbial.

        40

        • #
          TdeF

          Also Greta is right. It is not physics, it is partisan politics. I think the world could agree with that but it is not what she meant to say, that ‘denial’ was partisan politics.

          10

      • #
        TdeF

        A +1C increase in the average does not matter when the average temperature in winter is -25C and now it’s say -24C.

        Having crossed Siberia in summer, you can see no evidence of snow and ice and permafrost. It is lush and green, like much of Western Russia and Western Europe and North America and Canada. But the very warm summer, reaching a record +13C at the North Pole is short.
        The average summer tempeature is +0C which is why the sea ice extent is so highly variable, not Climate Change.

        In Siberia the young saplings are often in a U shape with the top touching the ground. So despite the apparent warmth you know it is a very different place in winter and it takes a lot of time to melt the ice underneath. In Canada, you do not swim under the warm surface as it is freezing. And the gigantic block of ice deep under the soil does not unfreeze. That’s why it’s permafrost. +1C will not shift it quickly as is suggested.

        The same in Antarctica where the average -25C in summer could move to -24C on a block of ice 3.4km thick. This tiny ‘warming’ is of no consequence and Antarctica is growing taller and the seas around it are falling, despite the fantasy that they are going up dramatically.

        40

      • #
        Graeme No.3

        Maptram:
        They forget that permafrost is an insulator. The earth in former Viking settlements was found to be permafrost 4 feet down (122 cms.) but with ancient bush/tree roots imbedded, indicting that it hadn’t been frozen some 900 years ago. So if we ASSUME that the warming started in 1850 (to be politically correct) AND the permafrost extended to the surface (unlikely), then the rate of change would be 7.2 millimetres annually. If you allow for a non-frozen surface about 30 cms. deep then 0.5 milimetres per year, but that will reduce as the heat has to penetrate deeper.
        Since there is precious little evidence of warming from the release of methane that has already taken place, and taking into account the way in which methane is rapidly destroyed in nature, this scare is just the usual climate “science” designed to scare the Gretas and gullible Peters F. in the world.

        And read up on Pykecrete. Invented in WW2 a mixture of ice and saw dust as a way to make an unsinkable ship in the north Atlantic. Pyke convinced Churchill by throwing a lump into the hot bath he was relaxing in, and letting him watch how long it took to melt. Permafrost is similar in construction.

        20

  • #
    pat

    19 Oct: EveningStandard: Brexit march London LIVE news: ‘One million’ turned out for People’s Vote protest in London as MPs voted to delay Boris Johnson’s deal
    by Bonnie Christian, Barney Davis, Rebecca Speare-Cole
    A host of celebrities and politicians including Sir Patrick Stewart and David Lammy addressed the crowds in Parliament Square, calling for a confirmatory vote on any EU withdrawal agreement…
    Celebrities including ***Sir Patrick Stewart and satirist Armando Iannucci have helped hire a fleet of ***172 coaches to bring thousands of people to Westminster to protest for a final say on Brexit…
    Co-leader of the Green Party Caroline Lucas: “The People can see through the bluster”…
    Mr Broccoli, who has been busy with XR demonstrations this week, joins the march…
    Read about the man behind the costume here…
    LINK: Mr Broccoli is unmasked at last as carpenter called Roland…

    most MSM not interested in police statement on crowd. DM has it:

    AERIAL PIC: 20 Oct: Daily Mail: Organisers claim ‘close to one MILLION’ anti-Brexit protesters are marching on Parliament to demand second referendum while hoisting demonic Dominic Cummings effigy
    •Effigy of puppet Prime Minister being controlled by his Brexiteer adviser Dominic Cummings was wheeled out
    •Politicians, celebrities and even the eco-warrior known as Mr Broccoli are among the Remainer’s huge ranks
    By Jack Elsom
    Politicians, celebrities and even the headline-grabbing eco-warrior known as Mr Broccoli are among the Remainer ranks which are calling for a second Brexit referendum.
    An effigy of a Number 10 adviser Dominic Cummings dressed as a Nazi was wheeled down Whitehall this morning by activists draped in EU colours…

    When pressed for a figure on the crowd size, People’s Vote organisers said that close to one million people had turned up to today’s march.

    ***The police would not issue an estimate, but aerial photos appeared to hundreds of thousands of activists at the event…

    Oliver Letwin smiles and is greeted by a cheery anti-Brexit protester after his amendment was passed in the Commons, potentially delaying Brexit again…
    An effigy of Number 10 adviser Dominic Cummings dressed as a Nazi formed the centrepiece of today’s Remainer march.
    With ‘Demonic Cummings’ etched on its head, the effigy was wearing an SS-style armband and had a Union Flag toothbrush moustache.
    But official organisers of the demonstration distanced themselves from the blimp and shrugged off responsibility and said they do not view Mr Cummings as a demon…
    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-7590999/March-Remainer-Rabble-Hordes-placard-waving-anti-Brexit-activists-pound-London-streets.html

    19 Oct: MetroUK: ***Patrick Stewart says ‘nothing democratic’ about Brexit referendum at People’s Vote rally
    by James Hockaday
    Claiming there was ‘nothing democratic’ about the 2016 referendum, he said: ‘People weren’t just misled, they were lied to.’
    He was joined by other celebrities and politicians including Great British Bake Off host Sandy Toksvig and members of Labour’s shadow cabinet.
    Following the Government defeat, four members of Labour’s front bench left Parliament to address the rally…
    (Tory) MP Antoinette Sandbach, who had the Conservative whip removed, credited the crowd with ‘changing her mind’ on a second vote…

    (NEAR THE END)
    Meanwhile, pro-Brexit activists also gathered in Westminster.
    Jason Hurt, 48, from Sheffield, was sporting a ‘I voted Leave’ T-shirt, and said he feels people who voted for Brexit are being ignored…
    ‘It is always about the Remainers, never about the Leavers. There are 17.4 million of us, we never get our voices heard.’…

    18 Feb: Country Living: ***Sir Patrick Stewart joins Cotswolds locals in a fight against celebrity crowds
    Residents explain how celebrities are “clogging up their roads”
    By Lisa Walden
    Residents in the Cotswolds have been complaining about a recent surge in celebrities. The Area of Outstanding Natural Beauty (AONB) has always been known as a star-studded area, with the likes of Gary Barlow, the Beckhams, Emma Bridgewater and many other household names owning properties there.
    The most recent famous faces to choose the Cotswolds as their country escape are Prince Harry and Meghan Markle, who have reportedly bought a house on the Great Tew Estate near Chipping Norton…
    In once instance, residents have been fighting planning applications for the building plans of a £150 million motor museum on an airfield close to Chipping Norton, complaining that it will only add to the celebrities “clogging up their roads”.
    There have been over 170 complaints to the West Oxfordshire District Council about the proposed planning scheme, which also includes 28 new large houses…

    Star Trek actor Sir Patrick Stewart, who also resides in the Cotswolds and has done so for many years, is supporting the locals who live there.
    Recently speaking on BBC One’s The Graham Norton Show, he expressed his love for the Cotswolds, saying that he will continue to back locals…
    https://www.countryliving.com/uk/news/a26385429/sir-patrick-stewart-backs-cotswolds-locals/

    only home not pictured in the following is Patrick Stewart’s at Little Tew near Enstone, not far from Chipping Norton). tourists often stay in XR’S STROUD (under 40 miles away) when they want to visit the Cotswolds. wonder how many of Stewart’s 172 coaches for the anti-Brexit protest were filled with Stroudies?

    Jaw-dropping celebrity homes in the Cotswolds
    PIC GATE/DRIVEWAY ONLY
    3. Patrick Stewart
    When the former commander of the Enterprise isn’t living in New York City, he can be found enjoying tea (Earl Grey, hot) at his Cotswold mansion…
    Stewart has become an active member of the local community. ***He was even involved in a public dispute, lodging noise complaints against a local shooting range. If Captain Picard wants you to pipe down, you better ‘make it so’…
    https://easyproperty.com/jaw-dropping-celebrity-homes-in-the-cotswolds/

    20

  • #

    This took a bit of tracking down, and it actually helps to know what I know, as one of our new commenters here sneers at, otherwise I would never have found it.

    I had an anomaly in the data I collected for my Power generation Series, or what I thought might be an anomaly. While all indicators were within 0.1% accuracy when compared to a site I now look at often, the total generated power I had from every source was in fact higher by around 1.1%, and when you speak in TWH, that’s a lot. My total 206TWH a year, and their total was 203TWH, and while just 3 TWH difference, that’s 3,000,000MWH and that was the 1.15% difference I had.

    There really is no anomaly, just a matter of semantics.

    Rather than post it all here, as it is too long for here, I added a Post at my home site about it.

    As you read this keep Snowy 2.0 in mind.

    Total Power Anomaly Detection

    Tony.

    100

    • #
      robert rosicka

      Tony that person you refer to thinks he’s only paying .12 cents kWh for his electricity!

      40

    • #
      Peter Fitzroy

      Dear oh dear, but keep on charting the demise of coal fired power, and never ever mention the rise of grid scale batteries, etc etc. And of course never ever ever mention the deaths of coal miners running between 6 and 12 year after year.

      /needless deaths

      011

      • #
        AndyG55

        Grid scale battery.. PF is in FANTASY land again

        Stores for 20minute in a tiny supply area like SA

        Insignificant PF.

        Coal fired power is the ONLY thing holding the grid tenuously together.

        Without coal fired power, there would no grid.

        121

        • #
          Peter Fitzroy

          and they are sprouting like mushrooms after the rain, aren’t they – look forward, not back to a imagined glorious past, built on the bones of needlessly sacrificed miners. As I said 6-12 year after year, do you have figures for those directly killed providing material for turbines, solar?

          09

          • #
            Dave

            Peter
            You asked this?

            “do you have figures for those directly killed providing material for turbines, solar?”

            Straight after sprouting the surge of batteries?

            Why did you omit the biggest KILLER of children in the Congo in collecting cobalt?
            OH!

            That’s right, facts are irrelevant!

            90

            • #
              Peter Fitzroy

              No numbers for
              A the amount of cobalt which goes to renewables
              B the number of deaths in getting that cobalt for renewables

              Even so what you as saying is that it’s totally OK for 6-12 Australians (a first world country) can die to deliver you power. Maybe we should kill more, if the price comes down, it will be worth it /sarc – for those who last letters on their screen name are O and Z

              /that’s right facts are irrelevant

              07

              • #
                Kalm Keith

                Pentassium oxiloratium can only be found in lava flows from 6 million years ago.
                It is being hailed as a new base material for Super Batteries and even Malcolm has endorsed research to be carried out by UNSW Environmental studies department when Mikhail Mann arrives early next year.
                Should the research show potential for storage and recharging the next phase will involve geological explorations to locate suitable deposits.

                In the ground. Hopes are high.

                KK

                50

              • #
                AndyG55

                CHILD SLAVERY and MASSIVE POLLUTION.

                These are the things that PF worships. !!

                30

              • #
                AndyG55

                I notice that YOU are using that coal fired power, PF

                You rely on it for your very existence.

                /PF: always the deceit and HYPOCRISY !!

                30

              • #
                AndyG55

                No numbers

                Because you and your ilk don’t even bother trying to keep count of the CHILD SLAVERY deaths, just so long as that cobalt keeps coming.

                They DON’T MATTER to you, do they, PF !!

                Nor does the horrendous POLLUTION in China caused by making those special wind turbine magnets.

                With coal mining, every attempt is made to minimise accidents

                With cobalt, its only poor African children, so you just DON’T CARE. Right PF !

                ..and all the TOXIC chemicals in solar panels

                20

          • #
            Hanrahan

            Australian mines are prolly safer than most industrial work sites. How many office workers have died of the ‘flu this year BTW?*

            During the Vietnam war soldiers were dying on roads faster than they were in ‘Nam [Lavarack Brks had a smashed bike on permanent display] and far more miners die off the lease than on it. Sheet happens.

            *
            Australian flu season has already claimed 228 lives – and experts say the worst is yet to come
            Australia is having one of its worst flu seasons on record, with 228 confirmed fatalities – but authorities warn the worst is yet to come.

            AAP
            News Corp Australia Network JUNE 29, 2019
            Note the date.

            110

            • #
              Peter Fitzroy

              Not the point is it. Are you saying that it’s ok for avoidable minding deaths to go up to the level of flu deaths?

              /callousness and truthiness

              07

              • #
                AndyG55

                More deaths from iron ore mining and gold mining, PF

                Coal is VERY CAREFUL about its mining operations, but deaths from heart attack and people not looking where they are going unfortunately happen

                Just ignore the CHILD SLAVERY of cobalt and lithium mines, PF

                /PF likes child slavery..

                50

          • #
            AndyG55

            “and they are sprouting like mushrooms after the rain”

            Each of them TINY and providing ABSOLUTELY ZERO ELECTRICITY

            They actually CONSUME electricity, but you knew that, didn’t you little-mind. !

            “As I said 6-12 year after year”

            So a tiny percentage of miner deaths, mostly from natural causes or stupidity, is a problem,

            … but wholesale SLAVERY of children mining cobalt and lithium is ok by you.

            You truly are one SICK little anti-human jerk, aren’t you PF !!

            81

          • #
            Peter Fitzroy

            so I see 6-12/year preventable deaths for Australian miners (6 in coal this year so far) is considered acceptable by the coal is good crowd, just so that they can post snide little comments about other posters like myself, who thinks that this is too high a price to pay for cheap polluting power. Do you thank those dead miners for their sacrifice, when you switch on your lights?

            /as long as it is cheap for me, I don’t care

            07

      • #
        AndyG55

        Why not mention several of those were heart attacks, unrelated to coal

        One was an idiot that drove under a coal truck at a mining site.

        All mining is hazardous, but it PROVIDES for everything in the built environment.

        How about you mention the CHILD LABOUR and deaths in mining Lithium, Cobalt and other “renewable” toxins.

        Or the deaths of maintenance men on wind turbine

        Or from electrocution by solar panels

        Or the HORRRENDOUS POLLUTION in the manufacture of wind turbines and the TOXIC chemicals in the manufacturing and actually in solar panels.

        Coal is CLEAN and SAFE for the RELIABILITY and AMOUNT of energy it delivers

        Without coal, there would be HUGE numbers of deaths and famine and poverty, and modern civilisation would not exist..

        COAL SUPPORTS LIFE. !!

        111

      • #

        Thanks for those kind words Peter.

        It was good of you to mention those grid scale batteries, because at that site I linked to, they detail how that grid scale battery delivered power to the Australian grid in the amount of 0.03% of all generated power. You can actually see the charging of those batteries on that same graph I linked to. At the large bump I showed, well the battery charging is those teensy weensy little blips you can just make out to the right of that bump, a 0.0004% contribution to Australian power generation.

        Also, you may wonder about the demise of coal fired power. Well fear no more Peter, as that will not be happening any time soon, as until you can find 14000MW of constant reliable dedicated as always there power, then coal fired power has a long future indeed.

        Renewables will NEVER find 18000MW of absolute Base Load requirement. (Oh, and Peter, that’s not my shouting there, it’s capitalised for accentuation)

        Tony.

        140

        • #

          See what Fitzroy did there? The main thrust of the whole Comment, and the article I wrote was about hydro power and pumped hydro in particular.

          Fitzroy saw it, knew nothing about it, and knew also that there was no comeback, so he looked up ‘Doctor Google’ to change the subject well, to anything really, as he could then just disappear having distracted away from what it was really about, , you know what his handlers tell him to do, anything at all, and here it was to grid scale batteries, not even mentioned, and certainly no real future, but hey, what would he know. When it comes to power generation he thinks that Google makes him the expert, when he is absolutely clueless about power generation.

          Tony.

          131

        • #
          Peter Fitzroy

          And what was it a year ago, what will it be a year from now?
          Is 6-12 deaths a year a fair price to pay?

          /a tool at best

          07

        • #
          toorightmate

          Tony, you are again talking to a statue.

          50

        • #
          Peter Fitzroy

          yes but I did not go to your site, and why should I? You love this tactic of saying but I did mention it, just not in the comment that you are replying to. That is dishonest.

          18

          • #
            AndyG55

            Dishonesty PF, always the lies and deceit, and the continued wilful ignorance.

            At least he is honest about liking child slavery and horrendous toxic pollution.

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          Richard Ilfeld

          I generally agree about coal power being key…..
          But in my mind’s eye I am seeing big spinning things.
          So natural Gas can be a part of “coal”. SO can Oil. Even nuclear can be a part of the
          basic philosophy that to have a grid you need a good supply of big heavy spinning things,
          reliably fueled. So, yes the particular virtues of coal make it VERY well suited to
          power much of the world, especially the still developing world, but with higher technologies,
          other ways to get big heavy spinning things going have similar value.

          Hydro not quite so much, if one has been watching Lake Mead. The Water making power is not solely for that
          purpose, and often not as reliable as the other fuels (tho useful still in many places).

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    Zane

    Now the greenies are raving about methane emissions from livestock and calling for a reduction in meat consumption of 90%. Who pays these guys, the soy industry?

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    • #
      Hanrahan

      It’s easy to blame Soros, but I’ll take the easy out and blame Soros. I’ve heard XR crazies get $400/W from one of his foundations.

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      • #
        TdeF

        The figure which was publicly admitted in London was 400 pound a month, about $A800 for ‘expenses’. As the photographs show, that would pay for lunch at McDonalds. It is really amazing how Climate Change has been a magnet for every wacky demand and now ruminant CH4 is to blame for Global Warming.

        This implies that animals are the problem, when cellulose digesting animals have always been around in vast numbers. Buffalo in America in huge herds, wilderbeest in Africa, kangaroos in Australia. And endless insects like the wood digesting termites which would produce more methane than the rest.

        It is part of the vegan guilt trip. They would get rid of all farm animals when the cellulose is going to rot and turn back into either CO2 or CH4 anyway. Trees or grasses, it hardly matters. Dust to dust. However they argue that domesticating animals somehow increases CH4 and CO2? There is no evidence of that. It is the cycle of life, except that humans cannot eat grass or trees, only meat and seeds.

        So I guess their story is that you have to get rid of the food and the humans if you want to save the planet. For whom? It is an illogical fairy tale presented as some sort of science. Kentucky fried Chicken Little.

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    liberator

    I just flew back into Melbourne after a short break up north. Not a single carbon off set paid and not flight shame. It got me thinking about air travel – one of the enemies of the Earth. We landed back at Tulla then took the bus to the long term carpark.

    I looked at the size of this car park and pondered the numbers of cars, and of course the numbers of air travellers that used these cars. (860,000 air travellers in 2016 was one figure I found) Then I considered the number of cars parked in the short term car parks as well as the other air port parking providers, hundreds, thousands, tens of thousands of travellers. Travelling for work or pleasure.

    I looked at the types of people travelling, families’, business people, young couples, and the young adults exploring the world. This was just Melbourne, there are thousands of airports around the world and there are hundreds of thousands of air travellers. This has bought the world together and they want to take this away from us.

    Yet this air transport is bad for the environment. The greenies want it curtailed and some want it banned or restricted to 1 flight every 5 years or so.

    I just think of all of those travellers now being told that they can’t travel anymore and if they do travel it’s once every five years and would cost thousands of dollars. Who can take away that freedom?

    I wonder how many of these children who participated in the recent climate strike are willing to give up their future gap year overseas travel?

    Banning or restricting flight will impact not just the travellers – its the airport service providers, ancillary staff, airport parking etc etc etc!!

    I don’t fly a lot for holidays (once every few years or so, and I fly maybe once a year for work. I should be able to choose to do so and not be told that I’m destroying the world by doing so. I guess that’s the problem I don’t care if the world is being destroyed (its not) as long as I have my cake and eat it.

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      TdeF

      The tiny amount of CO2 produced by burning of ancient fossil fuels is inconsequential. It all goes into the ocean from whence it came. The theory that the oceans refuse to release 95% of their CO2 is just fantasy. The whole system is in rapid equilibrium and self regulating. To even suggest that human CO2 accumulates in the atmosphere is a fantasy. The reason CO2 is going up is simple surface warming. Perversely it is suggested that the CO2 is warming the surface when it is not even warming the air. How does that work?

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    Vishnu

    The Indian Ocean is warming – along with others around the world – “the west is warming faster”. Under such conditions, “it’s easier to have an extreme positive IOD event”

    Well that’s reassuring. (not)

    Add that to stinky tundra – gotta love that methane https://www.nationalgeographic.com/environment/2019/08/arctic-permafrost-is-thawing-it-could-speed-up-climate-change-feature/

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    WXcycles

    Rita Panahi nailed it this morning on Outsiders, words to the effect that if the Left and other politico-religious zealots want the benefits of Liberal Democracies to survive they’d better start acting like they (and everyone else) are part of one.

    “Ripper Rita!”

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    • #
      PeterS

      Actually evidence is abundant to show the left want to tear down the West and replace it with some Orwellian driven pseudo-science based dictatorship. Somehow they believe they will retain all the benefits of the West. It’s akin to the neo-Ziegist dream of a future where technology and feelings meet as a combined force to save the world. What a load of BS.

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    Ian G

    The eastern tropical Indian Ocean is cooler than normal which is stopping rain forming.http://www.bom.gov.au/climate/enso/#tabs=Indian-Ocean

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  • #
    Another Ian

    How do you short a climate bubble?

    “Unicorns and the Societal Benefits of Short Selling”

    http://coyoteblog.com/coyote_blog/2019/10/unicorns-and-the-societal-benefits-of-short-selling.html

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    • #
      Hanrahan

      If you like rich food Boeing is a short. It’s price today is a little higher than it was 12 months ago when the Lion Air plane crashed and “the Asian crew” was still thought to be at fault. No one was wagging a finger at Boeing.

      The tens of millions in damages for family of the dead is chump change for Boeing, that’s why they have a blaze’ attitude. Neither the airlines who buy the plane nor the self loading freight who fly in it have any warranty, implied or otherwise. But the Max will not be flying again this year, the pickle-fork cracking on the 737 NG has not been resolved, the USAF is mightily phissed about standards, the 787 and 777 both have issues, the latter with the GE engines and a cargo door failing a pressure test.

      Boeing investors had pencilled in BIG profits from China, the worlds biggest market, well that is in jeopardy now and and buyers generally will be much more hard headed in future. Gone will be the days of “How can you go wrong with Boeing?”

      Nothing about this is short term, it will no longer be a GROWTH stock so it’s PE of 40 will come back closer to market average. Their share price HAD been inflated by using all the after tax profit to buy back stock, something they will not afford for a number of years.

      Add GE and Tesla. *

      *My opinions are for amusement only and should not be considered investment advice.

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    Greg in NZ

    Just for the fun of it:

    https://www.metservice.com/mountain/fiordland-national-park

    Monday 21 October 2019… “Snow to 600 metres at times”.
    Tuesday 22 October 2019… “snow to 500 metres at times… wind chill -16˚C“.
    Wednesday 23 October 2019… “Snow possible to 600 metres at first… severe gale southwesterlies”.
    Thursday 24 October 2019… “Snow possible to 600 metres… Gale southwesterlies”.
    Friday 25 October 2019… “Southwesterlies, gale or severe gale about the tops”.

    Four out of five ain’t bad ❅ ❆ ❄ ❅

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  • #
    robert rosicka

    That solar car challenge in the NT hasn’t been kind to the team in front running after the car burst into flames .

    20

  • #
    Environment Skeptic

    Finally,…why CO2 is a greenhouse gas…my thesis, and is entirely my own theory…ok…said i would do this on weekend unthreaded.

    CO2 is used in greenhouses as plant food so therefore….CO2 is a greenhouse gas…this is my thesis, …there it is..i simplified it a bit so as not to keep it long..anyway, there you have it.

    20

  • #
    pat

    turned on Sky’s Front Page at 10pm Qld time and there was Peter Gleeson saying the entire program would be about a combined media campaign for more press freedom, because it is under threat from the Morrison Govt! funny, the MSM lies about everything from CAGW to Trump to Brexit etc 24/7, and nothing and no-one can stop them:

    20 Oct: Age editorial: ‘Right to Know’ not just for journalists
    The Age, along with most other Australian newsrooms, is today launching an unprecedented campaign for greater press freedom.
    Media freedom is too precious to take for granted.

    Devoting so much space in our newspaper and website to the Your Right to Know campaign is not a decision we take lightly. We are not suggesting press freedom is an issue that trumps, say, our government’s response to climate change…

    The government would be wrong to dismiss this campaign as simply griping from journalists.
    Australians have fought hard for their democracy and they understand that it is impossible without the free flow of information.
    https://www.theage.com.au/politics/federal/right-to-know-not-just-for-journalists-20191020-p532h7.html

    how convenient the media’s campaign exactly mirrors that of GetUp! thought we had an election and Labor/Greens/MSM/GetUp lost:

    16 Oct: SMH: GetUp chief says press freedom a top priority after successful campaign
    By Max Koslowski
    GetUp will prioritise press freedom to prevent the Morrison government from “eroding civil liberties” after the progressive outfit ran its most successful post-election campaign on the subject.
    In an address to the National Press Club on Wednesday, GetUp national director Paul Oosting said the left-wing activist organisation would stay the course on climate change despite a bruising federal election campaign, which left some accusing GetUp of alienating voters…

    The progressive organisation launched a campaign to protect press freedom following the Australian Federal Police raids on News Corp journalist Annika Smethurst’s home and the ABC’s Ultimo headquarters.
    “Since the election, [the press freedom campaign] has been the campaign that our members have most actively engaged in, so we’re committed to it for the long haul,” Mr Oosting said.
    “I do think it is a risk for the Morrison government to continue down the pathway of eroding civil liberties and weakening the privacy and security of whistleblowers and it’s something that needs to be taken seriously.”
    More than 100,000 signed a GetUp petition calling for a “Media Freedom Act” that would put defences in national security legislation for public interest journalism and strengthen whistleblower protections…

    GetUp also confirmed it would stay the course on climate change, saying “greater solutions” were needed to make progress but they should remain “ambitious”…
    “In terms of engaging with climate deniers, we don’t engage with climate deniers and we encourage others to do the same.”
    https://www.smh.com.au/politics/federal/getup-chief-says-press-freedom-a-top-priority-after-successful-campaign-20191016-p5318p.html

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  • #
    Environment Skeptic

    Thanks Robert, as far as i know, there are no theories out there that postulate CO2 is a greenhouse gas because it is used as plant food in greenhouses.

    All the current theories say CO2 causes greenhouses, and in my new theory, i show CO2 is actually ‘in’ greenhouses.

    21

  • #
    pat

    ABC has the freedom to report as follows:

    19 Oct: ABC Rural: John Hewson slams Coalition on climate change while business takes lead reducing emissions
    NSW Country Hour By Joshua Becker
    Former Liberal leader and treasury economist John Hewson has delivered a scathing rebuke of the Federal Government’s climate change policy during an address to farmers and industry leaders.
    “We don’t have a sense of urgency to achieve these emission [reduction] targets,” he told the Australian Farm Institute Roundtable in Canberra.
    “There’s an entrenched anti-climate sentiment in the Government at the moment, and indeed government ministers are not turning up at events if they have the word ‘climate’ in the title.
    “The comments made by the Prime Minister at the UN, that we are going to meet our emissions targets, was a gross misrepresentation and was staggering for someone in his position.”

    Dr Hewson, who is now the chair of the Business Council for Sustainable Development, said he would like to see regenerative agriculture form part of the solution…
    “It would have a lot of benefits for regional Australia; a farmer could earn carbon credits or a stream of income for sequestering carbon on their farm.”…

    Large multinational food companies are moving to adopt new targets to reduce emissions in line with the Paris Agreement on climate change.
    The Sustainable Food Policy Alliance, which represents companies like Nestle, Unilever, Mars and Danone, has backed calls for companies to use their political influence to push governments to implement a science-based policy agenda.
    Some academics believe this marks a shift in the global effort to combat climate change, when companies are moving faster than governments to reduce emissions…

    Can meat industry reach carbon-neutral goal?…
    However, experts believe it will fall short due to a lack of research and funding.
    (Richard Eckard, a professor of agricultural sciences at the University of Melbourne) said the industry had only 10 to 20 per cent of the funding needed to develop low-emissions solutions for livestock…
    https://www.abc.net.au/news/rural/2019-10-19/hewson-slams-coalition-on-climate-change-as-business-takes-lead/11617292

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  • #
  • #
    TdeF

    Two signs that the UK parliament is completely out of control.

    John Bercow has offered to sign the Benn letter, the surrender letter instead of the Prime Minister. That’s how important he sees himself, as the head of government.

    Labor have woken up to the idea that they can pass any ideas they like, without winning an election or having a government or Prime Minisetr or Cabinet or the approval of the Queen.

    So they want to pass a law mandating a second referendum. Presumably they will be forced to keep voting until they vote to remain.

    It’s all Tony Blair’s doing. An unelected Supreme Court (2005) to overrule the government and PM of the day and they took the first real opportunity to do so. A fixed 4 year term. And the removal of the Queen’s ability to dismiss parliament and force an election. The hand of Tony Blair is behind removal of all the brakes on a runaway parliament while he works for his Britain to remain in the EU against the explicit democratic wishes of the population, but politicians know best.

    Now Labor wants to pass its own laws from opposition, with de facto Prime Minister Bercow putting opposition business ahead of Government business, because he can. They even had the cheek to write a letter to be signed by the real Prime Minister, whether he liked it or not. At least Boris refused.

    50

    • #
      Hanrahan

      Britain is not unique. Here senators with a few percent of the vote in one state dictate to the majority government and in the US the dems insist they have all the power. Claimed they were the legitimate gov even when in minority in both the congress and senate.

      20

    • #
      beowulf

      Just as worryingly there are little procedural signs that Bercow is now not going to step down as Speaker any time soon as he previously announced. They may be nothing, but they are conventions normally followed by a Speaker who is about to retire which he would be well aware of. He sees himself as God-Emperor — a one-man wrecking ball to the British constitution.

      Blair is the great satan though, that’s for sure; the source of all this chaos. Don’t forget it was Blair who took treason off the statute books too and he who suppressed the police investigation into the BAE bribery scandal in 2006 when he ordered an investigation into massive fraud to be abandoned, and was held by a court to have broken the law, but nothing ever happened about it. Mates in high legal places must have “fixed it” for him.

      Guy Fawkes had the right idea, just 414 years too soon.

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  • #
    Ian Wilson

    Why are my posts going to moderation all the time?

    10

  • #
    Ian Wilson

    Modified post to see if this post!

    Here is an interesting 2015 paper that claims that there is a connection between the lunisolar (atmospheric) tidal modulation of the Equatorial Electric-Jet (EEJ) and Sudden Stratospheric
    Warming (SSW) events.

    T. A. Siddiqui, H. Lühr, C. Stolle, and J. Park, Relation between stratospheric sudden warming and the lunar effect on the equatorial electrojet based on Huancayo recordings. Annales Geophysicae 33 (2015), pp. 235-243.

    Abstract. It has been known for many decades that the lunar tidal influence in the equatorial electro-jet (EEJ) is noticeably enhanced during Northern Hemisphere winters. Recent literature has discussed the role of stratospheric sudden warming (SSW) events behind the enhancement of lunar tides and the findings suggest a positive correlation between the lunar tidal amplitude and lower stratospheric parameters (zonal mean air temperature and zonal mean zonal wind) during SSW events. The positive correlation raises the question of whether an inverse approach could also be developed which makes it possible to deduce the occurrence of SSW events before their direct observations (before 1952) from the amplitude of the lunar tides. This study presents an analysis technique based on the phase of the semi-monthly lunar tide to determine the lunar tidal modulation of the EEJ. A statistical approach using the superposed epoch analysis is also carried out to formulate a relation between the EEJ tidal amplitude and lower stratospheric parameters. Using these results, we have estimated a threshold value for the tidal wave power that could be used to identify years with SSW events from magnetic field observations.

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    Ian Wilson

    Second modified post to see if it will post.

    Here is an earlier (2014) paper establishing the lunisolar modulation of the EEJ.

    Gasperini, F., and J. M. Forbes (2014), Lunar-solar interactions in the equatorial electrojet, Geophys. Res. Lett., 41, 3026–3031, doi:10.1002/2014GL059294.

    Abstract:

    To first order, the ground magnetic signature of the equatorial electrojet (EEJ) reflects the height integral of J =

    10

  • #
    Ian Wilson

    Third attempt – What is going on?

    Here is an earlier (2014) paper establishing the lunisolar modulation of the EEJ.

    Gasperini, F., and J. M. Forbes (2014), Lunar-solar interactions in the equatorial electrojet, Geophys. Res. Lett., 41, 3026–3031, doi:10.1002/2014GL059294.

    Abstract:

    To first order, the ground magnetic signature of the equatorial electrojet (EEJ) reflects the height integral of J =

    10

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    Ian Wilson

    I give up – it seems to be choking on the symbol for the Greek letter sigma!!

    30

  • #
    el gordo

    There is tumult in the bush and we need Ord water to satisfy our thirst. Morrison is waiting for something.

    ‘A leading regional economist has warned fears about water could discourage Sydney residents from moving to regional towns at the same time as the economic effects of the drought force workers to depart country areas in search of opportunities.’ SMH

    20

    • #
      Chad

      Wow ! ..that “leading regional economist”. Is a real genius !
      I wonder what complex set of algorithms he used to come to that conclusion ….
      ……and who is paying for those gems of predictions. ?

      10

  • #
    JC

    Seems the foundations behind Greta Thungberg are interfering in Canadian elections and connected to Trudeaus foundation.

    https://twitter.com/greg_scott84/status/1185660683083341825

    30

  • #
    Chad

    NEMlog regonal generation charts ??…Please explain !
    http://nemlog.com.au/gen/region/#SA1
    Can anyone explain what the SA graphic is showing for 20/10 ?
    The % chart suggests they exported 90%. ??
    But the actual generation chart shows 850 MW generated, and 450 MW exported ??
    How do they get 90% exported figure ?
    Also the % chart seems to indicate 130+% RT solar generation ???….WTF ?

    20

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