JoNova

A science presenter, writer, speaker & former TV host; author of The Skeptic's Handbook (over 200,000 copies distributed & available in 15 languages).


Handbooks


Advertising


Australian Speakers Agency



GoldNerds

The nerds have the numbers on precious metals investments on the ASX



The Skeptics Handbook

Think it has been debunked? See here.

The Skeptics Handbook II

Climate Money Paper



Archives

The State of Destruction

Sometimes we fool ourselves into thinking that destruction is creating something and that the government is a wish-fairy.

Nice quote “The Industrial Decalogue”  from 1916.

You cannot bring about prosperity by discouraging thrift.
You cannot help small men by tearing down big men.
You cannot strengthen the weak by weakening the strong.
You cannot lift the wage earner by pulling down the wage payer.
You cannot help the poor man by destroying the rich.
You cannot keep out of trouble by spending more than your income.
You cannot further the brotherhood of man by inciting class hatred.
You cannot establish security on borrowed money.
You cannot build character and courage by taking away men’s initiative and independence.
You cannot help men permanently by doing for them what they could and should do for themselves.

by William J. H. Boetcker

–W.I.S.T. (Wish I’d said that).

The list is known by many names — like “the Ten Cannots”. Urban myth has it that Abraham Lincoln said it, but he did not.

Imagine if this (or something like it) was a school anthem?

(And there may be even better, shorter ones, suggest away…)

 

h/t Chris D

 

UPDATE: Joanne is getting back tonight to Perth, from her epic drive to Uluru. Over 5,000 km, about 2,000 km on dirt. She blew a tire and destroyed a rim hitting a rock on a dirt section near the NT border, and the other car she was traveling with lost a lug bolt, blew one tire,  and had a puncture. Otherwise the drive was uneventful, so far. — David

VN:F [1.9.22_1171]
Rating: 9.3/10 (81 votes cast)
The State of Destruction, 9.3 out of 10 based on 81 ratings

358 comments to The State of Destruction

  • #
    Yonniestone

    “We make men without chests and expect from them virtue and enterprise. We laugh at honor and are shocked to find traitors in our midst.”

    ― C.S. Lewis, The Abolition of Man

    270

    • #
      • #
        OriginalSteve

        And i think this sums it up pretty well and speaks of sound education based on solud unshifting values ( the opposite of which us taught by the gormless and toxic Left ) :

        “What Lewis is saying is that young people have a propensity towards apathy or cynicism or sterile complacency anyway, and if you only magnify this cynicism by telling them that all value and emotion is subjective and that absolute truths do not exist, then you create a thirsty vacuum that is actually more vulnerable to being filled by advertising and propaganda.”

        “Being subjected to the endless debunking of ideals imparts to young people a smug “pleasure in their own knowingness” that can disguise an ignorance that leaves them susceptible to the enticements of disinformation. Really protecting one’s mind from indoctrination requires filling it with positive truths that are both well-reasoned and animated by sentiment.”

        “A man with a well-honed sentiment for an ideal, a real love for something, rises above the cheap plays of propaganda: A man who loves democracy deflects rhetoric that merely encapsulates a false simulacrum of it; a man with sentimental love for the philosophical value of simplicity tunes out the enticements of advertising; a man with a noble sentiment for intimacy and romance sees through the siren song of porn.”

        50

  • #

    UPDATE: Joanne is getting back tonight to Perth, from her epic drive to Uluru. Over 5,000 km, about 2,000 km on dirt.

    There better be photographs!

    Tony.

    320

  • #
    theRealUniverse

    You cannot strengthen the weak by weakening the strong.
    Could apply as..You cannot strengthen the alarmists by weakening the skeptics.

    130

  • #

    William J. H. Boetcker’s nickname was the straw man

    325

    • #
      AndyG55

      GA’s nickname is the dried-leaf-man.

      At least straw has a purpose.

      221

    • #
      Peter Fitzroy

      This is probably a better description of what most commentators use when posting on this site

      Boetcker also spoke of the “Seven National Crimes”:

      I don’t think.
      I don’t know.
      I don’t care.
      I am too busy.
      I leave well enough alone.
      I have no time to read and find out.
      I am not interested.

      147

      • #
        OriginalSteve

        Or…..

        * Laziness
        * Apathy
        * Sense of entitlement
        * Someone else will do it

        The price of liberty ( and Democracy ) is eternal vigilence.

        310

      • #
        AndyG55

        /PF describes himself to a tee

        doesn’t think,
        doesn’t know,
        doesn’t care (selfish egotist)
        can’t be bothered earning,
        etc etc

        271

        • #
          AndyG55

          “can’t be bothered earning,”

          Freud’s slip is showing

          can’t be bothered Learning,

          171

          • #
            Lionell Griffith

            There is a difference? Not much.

            To earn, first you must learn. To learn, others must first earn and provide you with the means to learn (parent to child). As you earn, you must learn because the act of doing the work necessary to earn changes the environment. That change must be accommodated in order to earn more. Without both learning AND earning, there is nothing.

            Simply taking is not earning. it is the negation of earning.

            150

            • #

              Concur a hundred percent, Lionell but we must help the orphans.

              80

              • #
                Lionell Griffith

                No problem with helping as long as it is completely voluntary. Dipping your hand into another’s pocket and using the excuse that it is for a “good cause” is still theft. No matter how many voted to do it. If you want to help using your own resources, I should not and will not stop you.

                The real question is, do I have the right NOT to help?

                80

      • #
        Kevin Lohse

        Unexpected degree of self-awareness from you there, Peter. Maybe there’s hope for you yet.

        220

        • #
          el gordo

          Mr Fitz is still unaware, the enormity of what we are saying is turning his world upside down. There are millions out there who think the same, so how we handle this ‘awakening’ is of great importance, requiring skill.

          First they will deny the new science, but eventually accept it when a majority of scientists admit global cooling has begun due to a quiet sun.

          181

          • #
            Peter Fitzroy

            No, el gordo, my world is fine, and ‘new science’? what is that? are you saying that somehow all those academies of science are wrong? I will say this – your level of faith is way higher than any previous mark that I had seen in religious discussion.

            230

            • #
              AndyG55

              You mean the academics that can’t help you find any empirical evidence of CO2 warming?

              Or the ones that can’t help you list any human caused global climate change in the last 40 years?

              You have zero proof of anything PF, just mindless, baseless “belief”.

              /PF is just blathering for attention again.

              191

              • #
                Craig of Ashfield

                Yes Andy, how can a gas which has a presence of only 0.04% in the Atmosphere affect anything other than PollyWafflers and Gullible Children. They don’t want the Truth because it’s too painful for them to handle! It truly is about income redistribution and we’ll ALL suffer for it.

                40

            • #
              AndyG55

              “my world is fine”

              Your little fantasy world, that bears zero resemblance to the real world ??

              Yep, sure it is, pf. ;-)

              141

              • #
                tom0mason

                If you look at the history of science, you’ll realize that paradigm shifts in understanding have never emerged from the mainstream. Qualitative jumps in theoretical concepts have always occurred thanks to individuals or small teams… Thus, consensus is often wrong!
                Many people should know that the physical truth doesn’t come from the UN, or politicians, or the media. Truth about natural phenomena can only come from objective analysis of unbiased data and sound reasoning — not models that are not about this world.

                10

            • #
              Serp

              You seem to be saying they can’t be wrong and that they’re never wrong. Science could never have advanced were that true.

              150

              • #
                Peter Fitzroy

                Oh – have you got examples of where one person, or a small group managed to reverse the opinion. All I see is small advances, and each successive scientist “standing on the shoulders of giants”

                226

              • #
                MarkMcD

                @Peter Fitzroy – “Oh – have you got examples of where one person, or a small group managed to reverse the opinion”

                Alfred Wegener – Continental Drift
                Huxley, Cope and Heilman (and a few others) Birds are from dinosaurs
                Isaac Newton – theory of gravity
                Galileo – All that stuff ‘out there’ versus the consensus of the Church
                Marvin Herndon – Geo reactor
                Einstein – Relativity
                Niels Bhors et al – Quantum theory.

                The list goes on and on…

                110

              • #
                Mark D.

                Nice job MarkMcD!

                Please note that we are different individuals as I lack the “Mc”

                30

              • #
                Serp

                Thanks MarkMcD for referring to the Terracentric Nuclear Fission Reactor thought up by J Marvin Herndon –I’d not heard of it before.

                There’s always more to learn.

                20

            • #
              Michael262

              Peter,
              Malcolm Roberts calls it “Renaiscience”

              19

            • #
              el gordo

              ‘I will say this – your level of faith is way higher than any previous mark that I had seen in religious discussion.’

              Its the sun stupid.

              80

          • #
            glen Michel

            It’s very hard to come to grips with the troglodyte left-wing green climate catastrophists. Any reasoned position or argument against this errant orthodoxy results in the greens/lefties running away. Big on rhetoric and bluster but largely clueless. Scream and shout and frighten the children.

            191

            • #
              Peter Fitzroy

              Facts, my boy – I have them, and you don’t

              035

              • #
                Dave

                From Peter!

                Facts, my boy – I have them

                The scientist man that adds Capacity Factors together to get Generation in MW’s

                WOW

                You have all the FACTS but no MATHS or PHYSICS or CHEMISTRY or really
                Anything!

                Ehhheee – you get the prize?

                I can’t stop laughing at you Peter!

                Great contribution again! :) :)

                201

              • #
                Graeme No.3

                Poor deluded CULT member.
                Wait maybe 5 years and come back and say that. Indeed why don’t you disappear for 5 years, and come back if your CULT is still in existence?**

                ** There’s hope, the Flat Earth Society exists, indeed issued a statement of support for the IPCC a couple of years ago. This was probably in support of the use of Flat Earths in the Climate Models rather than any belief in bizarre and illogical ideas like AGW warming due to CO2.

                150

              • #
                AndyG55

                “Facts, my boy – I have them”

                That is truly hilarious and delusional of you, PF

                Ok PRODUCE THEM

                Where is the evidence of warming by CO2?

                Where is your evidence for human caused global climate change?

                You have never produced a single scientific FACT to back up any of your AGW mantra ranting.

                /PF devoid of FACTS.

                81

              • #

                Apparently, you don’t know the difference between facts and endlessly repeated lies by a clueless media. If you can’t separate the two, then you’re falling for the tactics of Goebbels which have been widely adopted by the political left to support agendas that are prima facia unsupportable.

                70

      • #
        sophocles

        … describes you perfectly, Fitz,

        101

      • #
        Grant

        If each proposition was put in the affirmative rather than the negative, then this would be a plan of action.

        00

  • #

    Sometimes we fool ourselves into thinking that destruction is creating something and that the government is a wish-fairy.

    I assume that this is all about this XR fiasco we are currently in the middle of.

    I wonder who’s going to have the cojones to tell these petals that if they get their wish, then there….will….be….no….electrical….power….at….all.

    Tony.

    320

    • #
      theRealUniverse

      I seriously dont think they are even worried about that ‘inconvenient’ fact Tony. Or they are just plain stupid. OR thats what they really want!

      180

    • #
      sophocles

      But but but … power comes out of a socket in the wall!
      It always has …
      it’s magic …
      it always will!
      There’s nothing to worry about except “Carbon Pollution.”

      They can’t think. They can’t look ahead. They’re the dangerous Gullibles. When it gets cold and they need warmth, they will be the ones screaming hardest, loudest and longest.

      Then and only then will they discover that without power, there’s no food. Oops.
      Let the riots begin …

      240

      • #
        Maptram

        There was a post a few days ago about the heat in India or Pakistan or both. It reached 52°C or something like that. There was a quote along the lines of “8 babies died because of the temperature and a power outage that lasted 12 hours, so no air conditioning.” The question to me is, if the temperature was 2°C lower, so 50 °C, and there was a power failure, would the lives have been saved?

        100

      • #
        Lionell Griffith

        Still they will demand they have a RIGHT to take the wealth of others so they can continue to consume without their having to produce anything.

        What then of the rights of those who do produce? This is ignored. It is as if those who produce have no rights exactly BECAUSE they are productive and those who don’t produce, have a right to anything and everything exactly BECAUSE they didn’t produce it. There couldn’t be anything more obscenely evil and unjust than that.

        I say, let the non-producing consumers of others life’s produce, starve or depend upon the VOLUNTARY charity of others.

        Each of us has a right to our lives but don’t have a right to a livelihood extracted from others by force.

        90

    • #
      tom0mason

      For all the XR true believer, we’ve been there before … and back then some people thought we were ON THE EVE OF DESTRUCTION.

      Wasn’t true then, still isn’t true.

      120

      • #
        Greg in NZ

        For all the AB true believers, we’ve never been here before – unprecedented! Typhoon Haggis* to dump ONE METRE OF SNOW on Hokkaido’s volcanoes after drenching fans of the odd-shaped ball-sport in Japan:

        https://www.snow-forecast.com/maps/dynamic/japan?over=none&symbols=snow&type=snow.next3to6days

        *Rumours of Godzilla being seen amongst the DESTRUCTION of what was once known as Tokyo City will prove to be pure consensus climate science: wasn’t true then, still isn’t true now. Movie on at 11.

        110

      • #
        Peter Fitzroy

        And what about those 2000 dutch farmers, imagine, driving tractors on highways during peak hour.

        125

        • #
          Graeme No.3

          That seems to be more about “dislike” of the rules & regulations imposed by closeted bureaucrats.

          100

        • #
          Annie

          The farmers were blocked so actually took to cross country driving.

          110

        • #
          AndyG55

          The tractor drivers fighting against something REAL that will actually damage them, the climate agenda.

          The “Stinkers” are seeking attention, just like you, PF

          They are protesting against their own FANTASIES. Quite bizarre really

          /PF = lonely attention seeking little child.

          91

        • #
          sophocles

          what about those 2000 dutch farmers,

          What about them? I don’t see any problem … even if it was peak hour.

          I’ve done it — years ago.
          It was a Ferrari one similar to this… towing a humungous mower head. Other motorists had no problems with it. It was allowed on the motorway because it could meet the minimum motorway speed of 50km/hr (only just :-) ) and was licenced and WoF’d. But because of all the land crabs, I had to go a lot slower than that.

          00

      • #
        tom0mason

        ERIC SERGE HERBERT remember his name.
        He is the head of Extinction Rebellion in Australia. He is more likely the FACE of Extinction Rebellion in Australia in QLD and is trying to get more publicity (self-publicity) — would that because he’s in competition with his sisters who are models with quite an Instagram following.
        A little research shows he dropped out of university, and now lives unemployed with parents in a 5 bedroom mansion on the Sunshine Coast with an infinity pool. All that built and powered by fossil fuels.
        He is the idiot disrupting people lives due to his moronic delusions.

        110

        • #
          theRealUniverse

          If you look at the loontards in these ‘protests’, actually attacks on civil society, they all look unemployed (more un employable). Sick of them being released because there isnt any ‘law’ to keep them locked up or they have lefty lawyers keeping them out of the poky…
          They all look like true morons. Media love it, they keep interviewing them as having some ‘just cause’ usually just after they have been ‘released’. I think a session in the Colosseum with a gladiator and hungry lions wouldnt go a miss…

          70

    • #
      Peter Fitzroy

      For someone who is charting the demise of coal fired power in Australia, you display a remarkable lack of understanding

      131

      • #
        AndyG55

        From someone that lives in a perpetual fantasy, that is quite funny, PF.

        You understand basically nothing that is real.

        Will be many decades before nuclear displaces coal in Australia. !

        /PF is a very ignorant troll !

        160

        • #
          glen Michel

          He sounds like and has the interpretive skill of what appears to be an academic. Usually I pick up their manner very quickly. Obfuscation coupled with a almost total lack of logic.

          91

          • #
            AndyG55

            “and has the interpretive skill of what appears to be an academic”

            But not in a science , engineering or mathematical field

            He say ecology, but he HATES plant-life with a vengeance. Bizarre.

            As you say, his logic function seems to be totally missing.

            Damaged circuits perhaps ?

            80

          • #
            Kalm Keith

            If only Andy would stop bating him.

            30

      • #
        AndyG55

        Poor PF, the grid is still TOTALLY RELIANT on reliable sources, Coal, Gas, Hydro

        Without them, there would be no grid.

        /lol !… PF fails yet again. !

        140

    • #
      gary@erko

      Wires are strung on posts to catch sunlight which produces electricity, and the wind blows it along the wire into your home, for it to emerge from the power sockets. That’s how free natural energy works.

      120

  • #
    pat

    also looking forward to some pics from Jo.

    AUDIO: 7min41sec: minsec: 10 Oct: ABC Breakfast: ‘Extending the life of coal-fired plants is not the right policy to pursue’
    The head of the Government’s own Energy Security Board has lashed its polices as “ill-advised” and says they’re discouraging investment.
    Kerry Schott has also described ageing coal-fired power plants – like AGL’s Liddell generator in New South Wales – as “dinosaurs” despite a government’s push to keep it open.
    Federal Governments have abandoned five different climate policies in the past decade.

    And Kerry Schott was the architect of one of them – the Turnbull Government’s National Energy Guarantee.
    Guest: Kerry Schott, chair, Energy Security Board
    https://www.abc.net.au/radionational/programs/breakfast/extending-the-life-of-coal-fired-plants-is-not-the-right-policy/11588606

    reminder:

    Wikipedia: Kerry Schott: Her early career included investment banking for Deutsche Bank and Whitlam Turnbull…In 2014 Schott accepted an Honorary Doctor of Science in Economics from the University of Sydney.

    80

    • #
      sophocles

      Ah, so Kerry is a wa…banker/economist. She’s used to fairy tales. Can’t tell Real Life™ from Fantasy©.
      It was an economist who invented the 2°C warming “limit/tipping-point” …

      130

    • #
      Serp

      Another of Turnbull’s old chum appointments; time to put the broom through all these energy quangos and clear out the sinecure holders.

      100

    • #
      Ted O'Brien.

      This week we have seen some dramatic reports.

      1. Angus Taylor’s comments about extending the life of coal fired stations.

      2. Joel Fitzgibbon v Mark Butler,

      3. ALP govt in Queensland moving to gaol saboteurs.

      Can we hope to see that the Energy Security Board will get new management, or even be abolished?

      110

  • #
    pat

    presuming Karvelas is on the audio – doesn’t say, wouldn’t know:

    AUDIO: 14min05sec: 9 Oct: ABC RN Drive: Labor split over climate change policy
    Presented by Patricia Karvelas
    Labor’s Agriculture spokesman Joel Fitzgibbon will tell the Sydney Institute that the Labor Party should scrap its election target of a 45 per cent reduction in carbon emissions and instead adopt the upper range of the Coalition’s target, a 28 per cent reduction.
    But the idea has been rejected by several of his senior colleagues.
    Guest:
    Pat Conroy, Shadow Minister for International Development and the Pacific and Minister Assisting for Climate Change
    https://www.abc.net.au/radionational/programs/drive/labor-split-over-climate-change-policy/11588098

    ABC’s Patricia Karvelas(?): Fitzgibbon to give speech at ***The Australia Institute.
    to Conroy: some of your colleagues have told me today that following Joel Fitzgibbons’ suggestion would look like Labor is selling out. would it damage your credibillity?
    would it damage your brand, if you adopted the 28 per cent target?
    while we were interviewing him, I saw a tweet from Anthony Albanese…

    TWEET: Anthony Albanese
    Am proud that @AustralianLabor has consistently supported strong action on Climate Change based upon the science – and that action will not only protect our environment but is also good for our economy
    9 Oct 2019
    FROM REPLIES:
    Spikeyhair
    So tell Fitzgibbon to pull his head in or resign and go join the coal industry…

    Maria ‘What’s my alternative’ La Macchia
    7 Years ago today a great leader gave an awesome speech in parliament. A leader who had the right idea about carbon emissions. That leader was @JuliaGillard. You aren’t even in her league. GROW A SPINE. @billshortenmp had one of those and he didn’t capitulate to the coal lobby
    https://twitter.com/AlboMP/status/1181829472179240960

    ***at the end of the Conroy interview, ABC makes a correction, without saying so: Fitzgibbon is giving his speech at The Sydney Institute, which is a very different organisation to The Australia Institute.

    Wikipedia: Pat Conroy is aligned with the ALP’s Socialist Left faction…An economist by profession, before his election to parliament Conroy worked for Greg Combet in his capacity as Minister for Climate Change and Energy Efficiency.

    60

    • #
      theRealUniverse

      45%, 28% reduction, these are nothing numbers BOTH impossible to achieve let alone even MEASURE!! Waffly nutty eco-speak.
      See no evil, Speak no evil (eyes wide shut…)

      110

    • #
      Serp

      When will it dawn on Labor that with Albanese as leader the only way is down? I have no recollection of a more ineffectual major party leader –he’s not as inarticulate as Pauline Hanson but that’s no recommendation.

      50

  • #
    Russell

    Does anyone else think the Ten Cannots need to be updated for “our new age”?
    Too many “men” and “man” words to pass on to my dopey progressive contacts.
    They would ignore the main message while arguing about the lack of gender diversity.
    It’s funny how you can’t use any good thinking from the past due to this issue.
    Is it OK to change the actual historical words of the past to accommodate other genders?

    92

    • #
      AndyG55

      cannot distinguish genders. ! ?

      100

    • #
      Reed Coray

      Don’t change the wording! First, apparently it’s a quote–so changing the wording is forbidden. Second, G$%# D$@! political correctness. I don’t want to give the advocates of “gender-silliness” an inch.

      200

    • #
      el gordo

      You cannot help the poor by destroying the rich.

      There, fixed it.

      130

    • #
      Yonniestone

      To infuriate them further remind them firstly there’s only two SEXES, MALE & FEMALE and that the belief of multiple genders is the invention of ignorant or confused minds.

      Any deviation from the fact of sexes is a serious psychological condition that can destroy the believer.

      160

    • #
      theRealUniverse

      ‘Is it OK to change the actual historical words of the past to accommodate other genders?’ NO! (Jordan Petersen moment)
      Ill tell you something, someone (much older than me many years ago) said that ‘man’ is from the latin ‘manus’ meaning human, therefore the English endings in ‘man’ such as postman, foreman arent gender biased, its absurd PC un-realism. Changing or re-gendering the language is absurd.
      (Tick away good or bad)

      160

    • #
      Serp

      No Russell, keep the politically correct stuff for passing on to your “dopey progressive contacts”.

      Keep in mind Swift’s dictum as expressed in A Tale of a Tub: “it is a fatal miscarriage so ill to order affairs as to pass for a fool in one company, when in another you might be treated as a philosopher”.

      70

  • #
    RickWill

    Be respectful – treat others and their property as you prefer to be treated.

    If you are an XR dingbat creating traffic chaos, make an effort to consider the consequences by being respectful of others. It could be a pregnant woman or heart attack victim trying to desperately make it to hospital who is stuck in the mess of your creation.

    120

  • #
    Kalm Keith

    The ideas listed in the 1916 guide to living were a strong binding force in the society that was around me for the fist 25 years.

    Changes were evident by the early 1970s and the transition to full victimhood is now a reality.

    Weird stuff.

    KK

    91

  • #
    MarkMcD

    One of them is incorrect – or at least in our world it is…

    “You cannot help the poor man by destroying the rich.”

    When the rich are controlling resources, energy and cash flow, you can definitely help the poor man by destroying the rich.

    See… in our world, rich no longer means productive or a maker of anything. Many have become rich by strangleholds on the poor and/or by making fake money on computer screens and by loaning money out that never existed until the borrower signed his/her name.

    In THIS world, killing off the rich (judiciously) will benefit us all.

    29

    • #
      Peter Fitzroy

      I agree, and while were at it, any organisation deemed “to big to fail”

      220

    • #
      el gordo

      We should acknowledge that there will always be four classes, it helps the free market to operate successfully. Filthy rich, upper middle, lower middle and poor.

      In mixed economies like Australia and China there is a desire to reduce the inequalities, but it will take time.

      61

      • #
        Kevin Lohse

        Erm…. I wouldn’t call China a mixed economy. It’s economic model is very closely controlled State Capitalism. The bandits in Peking rule with an iron fist, and personal wealth is tolerated providing the right people get their cut. Every now and then, some of the more successful entrepreneurs end up being sacrificed to encourage the others to conform. The expansion of Chinese business into the global economy is a good example. While the West clutch their pearls over a whiff of CO2, China is building coal-fired power stations all over sub-Saharan Africa. Profit, though nice to have, is not a major consideration to a Communist regime, expansion of influence is the real prize.

        80

        • #
          el gordo

          On the ground China has public and private health cover, just like Australia, and in all the essentials they are adopting the capitalist model. Beijing has developed a new form of capitalism, state run mega consortiums are now going out into the world and Donald can’t cope.

          To give you an example, if the NSW government decided to build a new Hele coal fired power plant, the successful tender would come from Beijing because they cannot be beaten on price.

          The Belt and Road is aimed to provide new markets, its the only way capitalism will survive. Beijing always goes straight to building new power generation, in the knowledge that everything else will follow.

          They are laughing at the West because of millenarianism, the heathens think we are quite mad.

          80

      • #
        • #
          el gordo

          Its the status quo, the rich are heavily taxed to provide a safety net for the poor.

          100

          • #
            gee aye

            So the rich never leverage their position to benefit from the poor?

            07

            • #
              el gordo

              All the classes leverage their position, even the poor know how to manipulate the system.

              Utopian socialism is an ideal which I hold dearly and in a robotic world where humans have lost their point of being, then we might have two classes: Upper Middle and Lower Middle worldwide.

              60

              • #
                gee aye

                All the classes leverage their position, even the poor know how to manipulate the system.

                is justification for what. Thats’s a pretty unusual moral position to take that is totally untested legally.

                The point is that the rich have power and are the ones empowered to complain through many sources if they have a grievance. You can think this through better El g

                25

              • #
                Peter Fitzroy

                End of scarcity, that is what we wish or leaders would acknowledge

                214

              • #
                gee aye

                the poor won’t be scanning this blog to give their opinion with their lack of access and device to access it with.

                29

              • #
                AndyG55

                “the poor won’t be scanning this blog “

                So funny. GA just admits he is one of the privileged class.

                Is nanny covering your internet bill, ga-ga?

                90

              • #
                el gordo

                ‘You can think this through better El g’

                Morrison was the architect of Robodebt, he loathes the poor, yet would happily spend $100 million on a fighter jet. This is how over zealous Christians behave and my preference is to give the American Alliance the flick.

                Lets not go the way of Venezuela. If you want economic equality for all, then first you’ll have to sell the idea to the greater middle class.

                63

              • #
                AndyG55

                “the poor won’t be scanning this blog ”

                LOL!! PF takes up the “victim” self-flagellation meme.

                Hilarious. !!

                / PF= always a victim… of his own mind.

                60

              • #
                gee aye

                sorry el G no more comment when the disingenuous musketeer is here. Happy to engage via my Emil which is accessible

                34

              • #
                AndyG55

                Little ga-ga has to hide away.

                So pathetically sad.

                52

              • #
                el gordo

                Hmmm … Andy it might be better if you desist venting your spleen. Robustness is good, ad homs not so much.

                51

              • #
                AndyG55

                GA has a new buddy ?

                22

              • #
                el gordo

                Not quite, we were having a discussion and you joined the fray with hob nail boots, Annie must be horrified.

                Anyway, if they want utopian socialism by eradicating the filthy rich and poor, then they will have to convince the middle classes that there is more to life than material aspiration and we can sort it out at the ballot box. Its unlikely to succeed.

                20

          • #
            Peter Fitzroy

            You are kidding, right? Did yo not read the last report in Forbes – where the rich are taxed at a lesser rate than the poor.

            /this is the politics of greed.

            314

            • #
              • #
                Peter Fitzroy

                And inequality?
                We live in a rich society, yet we are happy for a few to harvest all the resources, while blaming the poor for their condition, that is – they are not trying. This is illogical

                215

              • #
                Peter Fitzroy

                And inequality?
                We live in a rich society, yet we are happy for a few to harvest all the resources, while blaming the poor for their condition, that is – they are not trying. This is illogical

                117

              • #
                AndyG55

                /PF say “gimme, gimme, gimme” !!

                71

              • #
                el gordo

                ‘Australia’s richest 10 per cent now hold more than 50 per cent of the nation’s wealth, a share that increased substantially over the four years to 2016.’

                Once again I must caution you, a bloody revolution is unacceptable.

                81

              • #
                Peter Fitzroy

                Ok, I would prefer a democratic one anyway. It is not in our culture, but Jack Lang had the right idea way back when.

                114

              • #
                AndyG55

                “Ok, I would prefer a democratic one”

                BS.. you are purely a self-seeking, self-centred, whinging socialist.

                60

              • #
                OriginalSteve

                A VAT/GST is a tax on poor people.

                The rich effectively bypass it through thier companies.

                That said, many working class people have companies , so……

                Its all about being smart enough to work the system……

                A lot of houses in wealthy areas are owned by tradesmen who have made it big. Somecare old money, but its getting less.

                60

              • #
                el gordo

                Humans aspire, its innate and comes with a big brain, we can visualise a future.

                Steve has clearly illustrated what is happening, the development of a greater middle class, but none of the economists predicted zero interest rates worldwide.

                Would anyone like to hazard a guess where we go from here?

                30

              • #
                AndyG55

                So much money has been channelled into useless wind and solar investment.

                Recovery will start once that stops.

                60

              • #
                AndyG55

                We need to remember that the whole aim of the AGW progressive agenda…

                .. is to stop progress

                50

              • #
                el gordo

                The AGW agenda is coming to a close in Australia and I’m with David Evans on the timing, within five years our fear of global warming will be history.

                40

            • #
              Fred Streeter

              British Socialism:

              I would have done it yesterday if I hadn’t a cold,
              But now I’ve put this pint away, I’ve never felt so bold.
              So:
              As soon as this pub closes,
              As soon as this pub closes,
              As soon as this pub closes,
              The Revolution starts!

              We’ll shoot the Aristocracy and confiscate their brass,
              And found a new Democracy that’s truly Working Class.
              As soon as this pub closes,
              As soon as this pub closes,
              As soon as this pub closes,
              We’ll raise the banner high!

              We’ll fight the nasty Racialists and scrap the Colour Bar,
              And all Fascist dictatorships and every Commissar.
              As soon as this pub closes,
              As soon as this pub closes,
              As soon as this pub closes,
              We’ll man the barricades!

              So raise your glasses, everyone, for everything is planned,
              And each and every mother’s son will see the Promised Land.
              As soon as this pub closes,
              As soon as this pub closes,
              As soon as this pub closes …

              I think I’m going to be sick.

              (As remembered from yonks ago. Thank you Alex Glasgow.)

              90

            • #
              tom0mason

              Politics of envy eh, Peter?

              30

            • #
              tom0mason

              Anyone who shouts “inequality?” is pivoting to the politics of envy and the very root of socialism — ENVY!
              Not work, not effort, not talent. No socialism does not use any of these it just want to inspire ENVY in all. And socialism doesn’t care what class you are as long as they can put you in a class, delineate all society by class only, and therefore split society by highlighting difference between the classes, causing disquiet throughout society. Socialist wish to control people while taxing and spending all money that everyone has. Socialism’s drags everyone down to a base level.

              Liberal conservative on the other hand does not care what class your in. The fact that you have talent, can supply effort when needed, can work well is what matters. And if you can make a living, or even a fortune, then the Liberal conservative will hail you as a success, while the socialist will deride you for making a profit. Liberal conservative wish the workforce to be educated, incentivized to work, and to make money from their efforts in the best and most efficient way. Liberal conservative wish to raise society up by it’s own efforts to make and maintain a better way of life.

              40

            • #
              Lance

              That’s pretty funny, Peter.

              It isn’t about Rates. It is about who pays the most tax. It sure isn’t the poor.

              Your Marxist view of inequality is based on Envy, Power Lust, and Hate. You don’t want Equal Opportunity, you want Politically controlled “equal” outcomes for whatever groups you favor, right up until you destroy Law, Order, and either the Constitution or the Magna Carta.

              Give it a read, Peter. The top 20% pay 76% of Federal taxes. Regardless of “rates”.

              “According to the (Wall Street)Journal, taxpayers with income over $100,000 a year earn 60 percent of the nation’s income and pay 95.2 percent of the income taxes in the United States. If we consider all federal taxes paid (income, payroll, and excise taxes), those making over $100,000 (a little over 20 percent of taxpayers) pay for 75.7 percent of total federal taxes (this excludes the burden on corporate and investment taxes)…. Finally, taxpayers making less than $50,000 a year represent about half of the country, earn 16.4 percent of the nation’s income, pay 5.6 percent of taxes and have a negative share of income taxes because they receive more back then they pay out (largely due to refundable tax credit programs). So, there is the information on who pays what. Now a question for you: do the rich pay their fair share?”

              https://taxfoundation.org/do-rich-pay-their-fair-share

              If you like socialism so much, I will personally pay for your one way ticket to Venezuela.

              60

      • #
        MarkMcD

        You appear to have forgotten… The Working Class…

        You know… those folk whose production makes people rich and creates money. Real Money. Thems who mine the mine and till the fields and factor the machinery.

        How could you possibly forget THEM! They MADE YOUR WORLD!

        80

        • #
          AndyG55

          “How could you possibly forget THEM! They MADE YOUR WORLD”

          People like PF don’t give a stuff about normal people.

          (PF is “special”, y’know, just ask him or GA)

          And you know what allowed them to build the world we live in.

          COAL, GAS, STEEL, MINING, ELECTRICTY on demand.

          Wind and solar have contributed NOTHING to the development of society,

          in fact, they TAKE from society.

          100

        • #
          Fred Streeter

          I am “Working Class”, bloody cheek!

          OK, most of my colleagues have been “Middle Class” and Uni Educated (I left school at 15, no qualifications), but we needed to be managed in order to ensure we were productive and profit generating.

          No different to the need to manage “those who mine the mine, and till the fields, and factor the machinery”.

          Of course, those who manage are compensated for the burden of responsibility and, in return, have to accept dismissal when they mis-manage.

          (Of course, the “rich” owner/mis-manager goes broke.)

          20

    • #
      PeterW

      Mark….

      In the last century, 100 MILLION people were killed trying to prove you right.

      One of the first things gat the Stalinists did was to kill off an entire class of landowners whose son was to be richer than others – and hence controlled more land. The REASON that they owned more land was that they were BETTER AT FARMING. Kill off all the expert farmers and what do you get? Mass starvation.

      The blunt reality is that we are not all equal in our use of resources. One expert farmer with 1000 acres will produce more food than 1000 peasants living in poverty on 1 acre each.

      The “rich” are not medieval robber-barons sitting on piles of gold while the peasants starve around them. They are the providers of employment, the builders of industry, the creators of wealth and the payers of a disproportionate level of taxation. Getting “rich” is the reward for providing a lot of goods and services that people want enough to pay for.

      Why should anyone do this without reward?

      70

  • #
    Latus Dextro

    “The Industrial Decalogue” from 1916.

    Plus ça change, plus c’est la même chose

    I was relieved and reassured at the same time that precisely the same observations were being made in 1916 as may be made today. It appears coincidental (not an irony) that the CODE OF ETHICS OR CANONS OF JOURNALISM did not exist in 1916.
    In fact, they did not eventuate until 1923.
    Today the Canons are wantonly ignored if unknown, replaced instead by Saul Alinsky’s obnoxious societal wrecking ball, Rules for Radicals. The consequences appear arguably the same. They engendered the same subjective partisan distortions that have led to the disgraceful, thoughtless, and abhorrent treachery of the Fourth Estate, one that undermines and erodes science, education, politics, honour, truth, integrity, righteousness, justice, and civilisation.
    For presumably, it was also felt in 1923 that in order to move distorting partisan publications and newspapers into the new age of scientific modernity, applying similar scientific critical thinking and dispassionate rigour to journalism was a laudable objective. Hence, we see the publication of the journalistic canons.
    Now we find ourselves in a secular post-modern age where a neo-Marxist identitarian intersectional polemic of subjectivism has briefly ruled, but has become the predictable author of its own demise. Where one might decide one’s gender identity is indeed that of a ‘fire hydrant’, though clearly that is a sinful hypocritical cultural appropriation of fire hydrants, one instinctively appreciates the advent of end times approaches or is upon us.

    What this illustrates is that we have travelled a full circle and are back where we started.
    There is a crisis that I am convinced the Right and the right will win. Humanity is marked by hope. Despair is the province of the Left. Despair never lastingly triumphs. At that juncture, the discourse of the dissembling, destructive Left will be expunged from civilised discourse and we will return to a more objectively, fact centred critical MSM adherent to the new Canons of Civilisation, yet to be published.

    100

  • #
    Roy Hogue

    Given the description of Jo’s uneventful drive, remind me to stay home and on paved roads. :-(

    And welcome back. :-)

    120

    • #
      TdeF

      A holiday is many things. Most importantly, it is about making you happy to be home.

      110

      • #
        Roy Hogue

        Indeed so. Be it ever so humble there’s no place like home. Although, as I remember I was ready for at least several more weeks at the Princeville Resort on the Garden Island of Kauai i (the way the Hawaiians say it) but the plane back to Honolulu was not interested in waiting.

        If you’ve ever been there you’ll know why I would have stayed if I could.

        80

    • #
      Roy Hogue

      And now that I can’t get the 10 cannots out of my mind I keep asking myself why those who stir up the hatred and the conflict at every turn can’t realize that all it gets them in return is more of the same. I remember something from long ago called The Golden Rule, a simple formula that said, “Do unto others as you would have them do unto you.” And to me that simple formula incorporates our 10 cannots and more besides.

      Why do so many do just the opposite? Or do you suppose they want to be mistreated and abused so they hand out what they want back.

      How sick does your soul have to be to think and act the way so many are doing today?

      70

      • #
        AndyG55

        ” they want to be mistreated and abused so they hand out what they want back.

        How sick does your soul have to be to think and act the way so many are doing today?”

        That is why the vile trolls come here.

        Desperately seeking ANY attention they can get.

        It is a mental sickness, that is for sure.

        60

      • #
  • #
    Geoff Sherrington

    If you wish to enjoy a delightful read, open up Quadrant Online and read the Peter Murphy essay “The Revolt of the Nobodies” October 8th.
    Careful, though. It occurred to me as I recommend this reading that I am in danger of being classified as one of Peter’s less salubrious groups, by spreading around the writing of others rather than my own.

    130

  • #
    Geoff Sherrington

    When I was in mineral exploration we used to travel large distances over horrible roads through hot inland deserts. You are asking Jo for photos?
    What is there to photograph? A flat car Tyre? A camel 5 km away on a hill? A tree on the Nullarbor? Dust on the windscreen again? Driving West into a setting sun?
    Welcome back home, Jo, we hope you had a beaut time despite my comments here. Geoff S

    170

    • #
      robert rosicka

      Geoff we travelled the Great central road from Uluru to Leonora back in July and there was heaps to see ,although the road was pretty good we had a breakdown at Warburton but with the help of one of the roadhouse managers who gave me free access to the workshop .
      Had to make a concentric bolt out of scrap but got going thankfully after two hours .
      The country changes constantly and it’s a great drive we love the desert , our other problem was we left Uluru on a Friday and because of the weird times the roadhouses are open (worse on weekends) meant it was hurry hurry or wait wait .

      90

      • #
        TdeF

        I agree with you both. There is nothing to see and so much. My favorite tourist story was of a busload of Japanese tourists in the outback, let out of the bus at a point where you could not doubt the world was round. And flat. Absolutely nothing to see. And they went camera mad. Thousands of photographs. You see, they had never seen so much nothing in their lives.

        140

        • #
          OriginalSteve

          Didnt some japanese in a ferrari die from hitting a camel in the NT , in a canonball-like race?

          50

          • #
            TdeF

            I think he was a dentist. It’s that sort of job. Death by very fast camel is a risk worth taking.

            50

            • #
              Greg in NZ

              Somewhere near Tennant Creek took a photo of a dead bloated bull on the side of the road; not long after that a photo of my smashed windscreen (road-train); shortly thereafter a photo of the $20 plastic sheet we used as a temporary windscreen until we got to Darwin, where we snuck into a flash hotel for a decent wash and were cordially invited to a buffet dinner & drinks by a bunch of dentists and their wives having their yearly conference – such is life – didn’t see any camels though. Next photo was Wolfe Creek meteorite crater in WA (via another dip in Mataranka Hot Springs… bliss first thing in the morning before the tour buses arrived).

              Your country was great in the 80s. Make Australia Great Again? Please.

              60

          • #
            Graeme#4

            Was at Balladonia at night when a truck came in that had just hit a camel. Sure made a mess of the truck front. Apparently lots of camels in the Fraser Ranges.

            30

            • #
              TdeF

              There are about 1 million feral camels. Travelling fast at night is dangerous, like hitting a car on stilts. They are aggressive and a hazard for solo travellers.

              40

  • #
    Another Ian

    Might be rated O/T

    “A comment from that Dutch story one might…not steal but more like recycle:
    “Food comes from the supermarket, electricity comes from the socket and morons come from the University”

    http://www.smalldeadanimals.com/index.php/2019/10/10/october-4-2019-reader-tips-2/#comment-1246016

    131

  • #
    TdeF

    I have to say I love the Extinction Rebellion people. Street theatre designed to prove that Climate Change is lunatic and the believers are loonies.

    Just when the IPCC/UN/EU was desperate to get control of the agenda, the XR people are really piss*ng off the ordinary people all over the world who just want to go to work. Most people could not care one way or the other as Climate Change is clearly silly and not happening, but if they are stopped from earning their living by people who clearly are not working, they will get very angry.

    The clown suits, the crazy outfits, the makup, the stunts, the superglue and the total disregard for the welfare of everyone else , is doing Climate Change no good at all. Their line is, my opinion is more important than your rights. I don’t have to go to work, so I am spending my time making your day as hard as possible. And if you are trying to get to hospital, walk.

    So the tide of anger is sweeping over the community, even the media who aided and abetted it. Whatever the Climate People want or believe, they are the problem. As for poor Timmy Flannery, despondent that his new role as activist has come to nothing and no one listens to poor Timmy, he is just sad. We are also sad at the scores of billions of our dollars wasted on his desalination plants, useless windmills, hot rocks, solar panels which of course don’t work at night or on a cold cloudy day and we are still paying for everything for another generation on borrowed money. Thanks Skippy for your self appointed expert advice given as a dead kangaroo specialist pretending to be a real scientist.

    Enjoy the spectacle of Climate Change anger, even in the media. Everyone has had enough. What Climate Change? What warming? What sea level rise?

    180

    • #
      destroyer D69

      Given the number of “sheeples” involved in the XR pack I am wondering why nobody has organized a “Sheeple Dog” trial at one of the XR protests/////

      50

  • #
    Peter C

    UPDATE: Joanne is getting back tonight to Perth, from her epic drive to Uluru. Over 5,000 km, about 2,000 km on dirt. She blew a tire and destroyed a rim hitting a rock on a dirt section near the NT border, and the other car she was traveling with lost a lug bolt, blew one tire, and had a puncture. Otherwise the drive was uneventful, so far. — David


    Thank You David
    for managing the blog for 10-11 days. Great work.

    Please; what is a lug bolt? Does it attach the wheel?

    90

    • #
      TdeF

      It’s interesting how trips are defined by the things which go wrong. The panoramas, the piercing blue skies, the endless roads stretching to infinity. Lose a lug bolt though and people listen and empathise. Have a good time and no one really is interested. What’s a lug bolt?

      80

    • #

      WELCOME BACK,JO… Take yer time, ease in, get the car fixed.
      Enjoy some chocolat. )

      100

  • #
    robert rosicka

    Forgot to say watch the camels Jo and drive carefully especially if your in a Toyota .

    70

  • #
    Bill in Oz

    Ten big red Thumbs just now for Fitzroy !
    Red thumbs all the way down.
    I refuse to spend any time or effort with him
    He is not here to contribute to a discussion
    He is here to distract, waste our time and drain our energy.
    Time for all of us to just red thumb him
    And never reply.
    Being shunned may drive him away !
    Or drive him even nuttier than he is already.
    In which case the Modes can give him the boot !

    171

  • #
    Mark

    Tyre. This is what they put on the car wheels. Tire is when you need a rest.
    Lug bolt is what protrudes from the wheel hub through the wheel and is held on by a wheel nut.

    71

  • #
    gee aye

    Is AG asleep? Anyone here want to discuss anything?

    16

  • #
    gee aye

    Anyone here want to discuss anything? No abuse thanks.

    25

    • #
      Peter Fitzroy

      how about this?
      https://cmip6workshop19.sciencesconf.org/data/CMIP6_CMIP6AnalysisWorkshop_Barcelona_190325_FINAL.pdf
      The approach is interesting, do you think this is a credible way forward?

      114

      • #
        AndyG55

        Yep, second floor on a foundation of quicksand.

        That’ll work ;-)

        No evidence of warming by CO2 anywhere

        No warming in Australia in 20 years.

        No human caused changes in climate in 40 years.

        No place that has any evidence of CO2 warming.

        Models that are built from the quicksand up, based on failed hypotheses.

        /PF batting a big fat ZERO !!

        100

      • #
        AndyG55

        “More robust statistical testing of model results through a larger ensemble”

        Hey, let’s all make EVEN MORE erroneous models and average them

        That’ll do the trick.

        Let’s not test them against REALITY though

        Let’s just change reality to match the models.

        The epitome of ANTI-SCIENCE.

        120

      • #
        David Wojick

        The flaws with CMIP are fundamental. The models are constrained to use about a dozen forcings, all but one of which are human caused. The exception is direct solar radiation variation, which is too small to matter. There is no large scale internal variability in these models, no little ice age, etc., so it follows that all change must be human caused, by assumption. Then they claim that the models prove that global warming is human caused.

        The reasoning is perfectly circular. They discover their assumption.

        130

      • #
        tom0mason

        As one of the top climate scientists in the world, Kevin Trenberth said in journal Nature (“Predictions of Climate”) about climate models in 2007 and is still the case in 2019:

        None of the models used by the IPCC are initialized to the observed state and none of the climate states in the models correspond even remotely to the current observed climate. In particular, the state of the oceans, sea ice and soil moisture has no relationship to the observed state at any recent time in any of the IPCC models. There is neither an El Nino sequence nor any Pacific Decadal Oscillation that replicates the recent past; yet these are critical modes of variability that affect Pacific rim countries and beyond. The Atlantic Multidecadal Oscillation, that may depend on the thermohaline circulation and thus oceanic currents in the Atlantic, is not set up to match today’s state, but it is a critical component of the Atlantic hurricanes and it undoubtedly affects forest for the next decade from Brazil to Europe. Moreover, the starting climate state in several of the models may depart significantly from the real climate owing to model errors. I postulate that regional climate change is impossible to deal with properly unless the models are initialized.
        ¯

        ¯
        Therefore the problem of overcoming this shortcoming, and facing up to initializing climate models means not only obtaining sufficiently reliable observations of all aspects of the climate system, but also overcoming model biases. So this is a major challenge.

        110

      • #
        tom0mason

        Peter Fitzroy,

        How about this

        Dr Jule Charney, who wrote a report in 1979 saying that doubled CO2 would warm the world by 1.5-4.5 K, with a midrange estimate of 3 K. Most IPCC reports blindly accept and adopted the same sort of interval in making their predictions.
        .
        The CMIP5 (Coupled Model Intercomparison Project’s 5th-generation) models projected 2.1-4.7 K Charney sensitivity, with a midrange estimate of 3.35 K (from data in Andrews et al. 2012).
        .
        Now the CMIP6 (sixth generation model) of these virtual reality cybernetic behemoths models, the model ensembles predict 3 to 5.2 K Charney sensitivity, with a midrange estimate of 4.1 K (Fig. 1). The original midrange projection has become the lower bound.
        .
        The reality , the midrange Charney sensitivity to be expected on the basis of observed warming as well as total and realized forcing to 2011, the year to which climate data were updated in time for IPCC’s 2013 Fifth Assessment Report, is less than 1.4 K. That would take at least a century to happen.
        .

        Here, then, is a huge error of logic right at the center of ‘official climatology’ (aka belief driven climatology).
        The CMIP6 models project 4.1 K warming in response to doubled CO2 when, on the basis of officially-published data, they should be projecting only 1.4 K. They are overshooting threefold.

        My thanks to Dr Willie Soon and Christopher Monckton of Brenchley for pointing out this as yet another BASIC ERROR of these virtual reality cybernetic behemoths models.

        140

      • #
        theRealUniverse

        NO! Its a credible way BACKWARD! Total rubbish.

        40

  • #
    gee aye

    that’s one where I get bogged down with presentation.

    What is it al about?

    OK I get the theme but I can’t get any information about assessing a way forward. There appears to be no information (possibly there is if I actually attended) to address your question.

    29

    • #
      Peter Fitzroy

      To me its the idea that you attack the variously identified problems as isolated instances. So clouds are considered without reference to the rest of the model. And then, and this is the bit I have trouble with, the secret sauce ties it all together. It is certainly an approach which is only getting lukewarm support at ‘realscience’, and the sceptical crowd also do not have much input.

      However, it would fit into the GCM so that is a plus

      116

      • #
        gee aye

        how do you get all that from the mish mash of that flyer?

        212

        • #
          Peter Fitzroy

          Well, I used that as the summary, I got there by looking at
          https://cmip6workshop19.sciencesconf.org/resource/page/id/15
          and, more meaty stuff in
          https://www.wcrp-climate.org/wgcm-cmip/wgcm-cmip6

          SO, soz, I sort of mislead you a bit.

          117

          • #
            AndyG55

            The quicksand gets even deeper and they keep digging.

            SO funny. !

            More erroneous models, but let’s just AVERAGE them anyway ;-)

            ANTI-SCIENCE that PF worships

            Heck even ga-ga sees it a load of twaddle.

            The papers provide the required information to produce a consistent set of climate model simulations”

            It really is just arcade games for academics, isn’t it, PF :-)

            150

          • #
            AndyG55

            “The value of CMIP is that it enables fundamental research”

            So they are ADMITTING they haven’t even got the fundamentals right yet.

            SO funny !!

            That is what we have been telling them for 20-30 years !!! :-)

            “Can be helpful in gauging progress in model improvement

            They are talking about gauging progress by testing models against models

            getting SERIOUSLY funny now. !! :-)

            “The full value of simulations can be realized by subjecting them to the scrutiny and
            expertise of the climate research community”

            Here’s a novel thought..

            How about they look at the value by subjecting them to scrutiny against REALITY !!!

            /SO MUCH ANTI-SCIENCE !!!

            150

          • #
            tom0mason

            Peter Fitzroy,
            More evidence for –

            people being paid well to waste time and money — The models’ basics are broken, and this shows that nobody wishes to fix them!

            80

            • #
              AndyG55

              Yep, it great that PFool keeps posting that CHIMP6 link..

              because that link is ABSOLUTE PROOF that the models as they currently are, ARE ABSOLUTE JUNK

              /PF destroys model credibility.

              80

          • #
            tom0mason

            And they still have NOT FIXED IT
            As one of the top climate scientists in the world, Kevin Trenberth said in journal Nature (“Predictions of Climate”) about climate models in 2007 and is still the case in 2019:

            None of the models used by the IPCC are initialized to the observed state and none of the climate states in the models correspond even remotely to the current observed climate. In particular, the state of the oceans, sea ice and soil moisture has no relationship to the observed state at any recent time in any of the IPCC models. There is neither an El Nino sequence nor any Pacific Decadal Oscillation that replicates the recent past; yet these are critical modes of variability that affect Pacific rim countries and beyond. The Atlantic Multidecadal Oscillation, that may depend on the thermohaline circulation and thus oceanic currents in the Atlantic, is not set up to match today’s state, but it is a critical component of the Atlantic hurricanes and it undoubtedly affects forest for the next decade from Brazil to Europe. Moreover, the starting climate state in several of the models may depart significantly from the real climate owing to model errors. I postulate that regional climate change is impossible to deal with properly unless the models are initialized.
            ¯

            ¯
            Therefore the problem of overcoming this shortcoming, and facing up to initializing climate models means not only obtaining sufficiently reliable observations of all aspects of the climate system, but also overcoming model biases. So this is a major challenge.

            100

            • #
              Kalm Keith

              The only truly valid model of the relationship between Earth’s atmospheric temperature and CO2 is this graph.

              https://i2.wp.com/wattsupwiththat.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/09/Vostok-ice-core-temperature-and-CO2-Mearns-1024×6111.png?ssl=1

              It requires interpretation, but careful examination shows that CO2 levels follow temperature movement.

              This reconfirms the known laboratory behaviour of gases in liquids where, for example, CO2 is known to be more soluble in cold water and less soluble in warmer conditions.

              KK

              100

              • #
                Peter Fitzroy

                Yep, and that is the accepted relationship between CO2 and temperature. But CO2 (and H2O etc) also have a positive feedback in that relationship. So add CO2 (and in the last 100 years, the atmospheric concentration has gone from 300 to 400 ppm) and you have that positive feedback working. Note: there is no where in any record where the rate of increase in both temp and CO2 are remotely comparable.

                212

              • #
                AndyG55

                ” But CO2 (and H2O etc) also have a positive feedback in that relationship”

                No evidence of that, PF.

                100

              • #
                Peter Fitzroy

                And as for evidence, the relationship between temperature and CO2 in the oceans is discussed endlessly on this blog. As is the effect of water vapour and temp on greenhouse forcings.

                212

              • #
                AndyG55

                Yep, temp drives CO2… NOT the other way around.

                You remain clueless, and have no evidence of warmnig by CO2.

                80

              • #
              • #
                el gordo

                ‘… and you have that positive feedback.’

                CO2 doesn’t have a positive feedback, as far as we can ascertain, but H2O might.

                70

              • #
              • #
                theRealUniverse

                ‘and you have that positive feedback working.’ So how does it work in an atmospheric system? It doesnt.
                Sp called feedback is the wrong term, interpretation. There is no feedback in a thermal equilbrium. Feedback is from system theory. It requires increasing the entropy bu adding an input which is derived from the output.

                40

              • #
                Mark D.

                H2O is the refrigerant circulating in a massive solar powered system. It moves both heat and cool around in quantities that are impossible to model or measure accurately.

                The effects of CO2 at .04% of the atmosphere is not measurable. It cannot be proven, has not been demonstrated and is simply found by warmists by faith and faith alone.

                Religious fervor sometimes gets this world into a lot of trouble…..

                20

            • #
              Peter Fitzroy

              This is for CMIP5
              https://www.ipcc.ch/site/assets/uploads/2018/02/WG1AR5_Chapter09_FINAL.pdf
              but as you can see the science has incorporated the findings in 2007 and moved on.

              012

              • #
                AndyG55

                Yet the models are still a garbage heap built on quicksand.

                “Furthermore, despite the progress that has been made,
                scientific uncertainty regarding the details of many processes remains.”

                /PF fails science, yet again.

                50

              • #
                AndyG55

                “Inevitably, some models perform better than others for
                certain climate variables, but no individual model clearly
                emerges as ‘the best’ overall.”

                ie, they are ALL manifestly WRONG !

                40

              • #
                tom0mason

                Peter Fitzroy,

                IPCC is a political organization and not a scientific one.

                70

              • #
                glen Michel

                IT rests on the back of a giant Turtle.Or in such cases – clouds.It’s clouds ALL the waaayyyy down.

                31

              • #
                Ross

                PF
                Have you read the work done by the Connolly’s ?

                10

              • #
                AndyG55

                Not only are the climate models missing large pieces of information, minimising the effect of the Sun etc etc, and added-in fallacies such as CO2 warming… but…

                they also try to hind-cast to GISS et al, which has KNOWN data corruption issues.

                Because of the mal-adjustments, particularly to remove the inconvenient” 1940s peak (similar temperatures to now) the GISS fabrication bears little or no resemblance to reality.

                If any of the models hind-cast to GISS accurately, they have to be wrong when validated against reality.

                The modellers and the AGW “adjusters” have put themselves into a Catch 22 situation.

                Either they use GISS with its fabricated trends and always end up with that built-in trend…and will be un-validated by reality

                .or they use real temperatures, and the climate scare goes away.

                Such fun to watch :-)

                50

              • #
                tom0mason

                You offer no Scientific evidence then, Peter Fitzroy, just modeled nonsense from the UN-IPCC (an assuredly political organization and NOT a Scientific one).

                I’m sure Peter that you realizes that climate is all about what happens on this planet, for real, and not some computer mock up that cannot ever get the very basics of the climate correct.

                No matter what they do with these models as long as the underlying basics are wrong (and they are) they will NEVER indicate how the climate works or progresses.

                30

          • #
            theRealUniverse

            “Coupled simulations with eddy-rich ocean
            – Future scenario simulations from HighResMIP
            – Data availability – raw and processed outputs
            – Global simulation vs observations”
            All based on CO2 ‘forcing’

            ALL this is modelling based on a INCORRECT theory! Therefore the models are totally incorrect by inference.
            I would suspect without investigation that these authors are all in the pay of the IPCC?

            40

  • #
    Ruairi

    For warmists the greatest no-nos,
    Are past temperature highs but not lows,
    While their climate cannots,
    Rule out sun and sunspots,
    Closed science to them as no-gos.

    170

  • #
    Serp

    I read that Macarthur Wind farm has one hundred and forty turbines with an overall nameplate capacity of 420 MW at 34% capacity factor (which is inflated by 11.3% according to the CF of less than 30% TonyfromOz has determined) so this equates to a capacity of 1MW per turbine.

    No figures are given for the expected failure rate but I read “turbine gearboxes are typically given a design life of 20 years, but few make it past the 10-year mark.”

    It’s a pity that all the time and energy frittered away on modelling climate wasn’t devoted to estimating the lifetime of such facilities; if it’s unlikely any of the turbines will get to ten years old then it’s obvious Macarthur will be defunct within that decade.

    Is the RET really that lucrative that the billion dollars Macarthur cost in 2013 will have been more than recouped before end of life inside the next four or five years? Or was it all about the commissions made by the money men?

    90

    • #
      theRealUniverse

      “turbine gearboxes are typically given a design life of 20 years, but few make it past the 10-year mark.” That doesnt surprise me, they would be under allot of stress. I think its yet untested tech to be frank. Compared to the generators in a coal or hydro plant, they virtually have NO lifetime at all.

      40

    • #
      RickWill

      If Macarthur achieves 30% CF then it would have sales of about $154M each year if it was exposed to average wholesale price. So it has potential to recover $1bn capital over a 10 year life. The value of sales stated here depends on a wholesale price of $100/MWh plus the LGC of $40/MWh. It is unlikely that the wholesale price will fall on average but there is a lot of congestion on the grid now when the wind blows and the sun shines. That means the average price for intermittent generators is likely to fall. The forward price of LGCs is in the gutter.

      Rooftop solar is already impacting on wind generation in South Australia and, to a lesser degree, on grid scale solar in Queensland. The curtailment of intermittent generation is now a daily occurrence in SA and QLD as the price is often negative. Price went briefly negative in QLD and SA again today.

      Without Labor’s RET increase, the investment opportunities for intermittents are now limited:
      https://www.abc.net.au/news/2019-04-26/renewable-energy-investment-maybe-heading-from-boom-to-bust/11041964

      “We estimate that a wind farm costing $2,000/kW (kilowatt) with a $55/MWh offtake contract over the first 15 years, then reverting to a merchant power price of $75/MWh for the remaining 10-year life of the plant, would achieve a nominal internal rate of return of five per cent,” Mr Busuttil said.

      You can bet that calculation is based on the unconstrained CF, which is not consistent with increasing curtailment.

      Fundamentally, the diversity fairy does not exist. When the wind blows in Australia it affects most wind farms so wholesale price collapses because the grid would be oversupplied if some generators did not voluntarily curtail output. Likewise when wind is low it affects most wind farms. These are the times that coal plants bid prices just below the price needed for gas generators to be viable to ensure they get high prices for their reduced output as well as compensating for negative prices they accept when the wind and sun do not get their bidding right.

      Wholesale price has become extraordinarily volatile. Prices across the network ranged from minus $1000/MWh to plus $2000/MWh on Thursday.

      Merit order scheduling of generation, based on short run marginal cost, is long gone. Coal generators bid some energy at high negative price so they remain in dispatch and ride through negative prices at minimum stable output. During most evening peaks the coal generators crank up to full output with that energy bid in around $250/MWh. This is the game that generator operators play every day.

      It would not surprise me to see wind and solar farms in Australia going broke. Some older turbines will already be experiencing increased maintenance costs. The 2022 settlement for LGC forward price is now $15/MWh – not much.

      30

      • #
        RickWill

        An interesting sentence in the ABC article in reference to old clunker coal generators:

        They also keep churning away when the wind stops blowing and the sun stops shining, a trait retailers are prepared to pay for.

        Clearly retailers do not understand the virtue of free energy from intermittents. Can anyone possibly imagine why retailers prefer dispatachable generation over sometime generation. With the RET met, maybe the NEM is getting back to a competitive market again; albeit at three times the price of a decade ago. The article also states that old coal makes a profit at $40/MWh.

        20

  • #
    EternalOptimist

    @David
    We will be making that trip in a few months. Did jo use 4wd or awd ?

    still discussing the vehicle here :)

    60

  • #
    pat

    Sky “Front Page” just had SMH tomorrow, something like “Climate (or carbon) targets beyond us: IMF” because of our use of coal. wasn’t paying close attention. not yet online.

    10 Oct: LowyInterpreter: Economic diplomacy: Auditing globalism, trade woes, ASEAN’s future
    by Greg Earl
    Measuring and managing the world economy – and Australia’s place – sees a pushback to a “negative globalism” mantra.
    The very new IMF managing director, Kristalina Georgieva, highlighted new agency research which finds that carbon taxes are one of the most powerful and efficient tools for dealing with climate change, making the point that:
    “Additional revenues could be used to cut taxes elsewhere and fund assistance to millions of affected households. These new resources could also support investments in the clean energy infrastructure that will help the planet heal.”

    It’s hardly stirring stuff, but count this as the first submission for the defence in Australia’s inquisition of “negative globalism”…
    http://www.lowyinterpreter.org/the-interpreter/economic-diplomacy-auditing-globalism-trade-woes-asean-s-future

    on the other hand!

    10 Oct: ChinaDaily: China ready to hit target in 2020 for emissions
    By Angus McNeice
    China has slashed levels of pollution from its thermal power plants over the past five years and is on track to meet a key emissions goal for 2020, according to a new study.

    Researchers from China and the United Kingdom have determined that between 2014 and 2017, China more than halved power plant emissions of sulfur dioxide, nitrogen oxide and particulate matter…
    The team of researchers analyzed emissions from thermal power plants that burn coal, oil, natural gas or biomass to produce energy, with a particular focus on coal-fired power plants as these are major contributors to ambient air pollution.
    According to the study, which was published in the journal Nature, levels of sulfur dioxide emissions in China fell from 2.21 million metric tons in 2014 to 0.77 million tons in 2017, a reduction of 65 percent. Levels of nitrogen oxide and particulate matter also fell, by 60 percent and 73 percent, respectively, the study said.

    The study suggested that China is on track to meet its target of a 60 percent reduction of pollutants across all power plants by 2020. The researchers used data on emission concentrations collected by China’s Continuous Emission Monitoring Systems network, which covers up to 98 percent of Chinese thermal power capacity…
    “This is encouraging news for China as well as for other countries wishing to reduce their power emissions,” said Mi Zhifu, a climate change economist from University College London who co-authored the study…

    The study was carried out by researchers from UCL and Cambridge University in the United Kingdom, in collaboration with five universities in China, and was supported by the Chinese Academy of Sciences and the Ministry of Ecology and Environment…
    http://www.chinadaily.com.cn/a/201910/10/WS5d9e310aa310cf3e3556f87c.html

    51

    • #
      David-of-Cooyal-in-Oz

      Congratulations to China on their reductions of true pollutants. But the reporter’s use of “pollutants” makes the statement ambiguous, and deliberately so, in my opinion.
      I bet the MSM will use “emissions” and “pollutants”, without any clarification in their praise of the Chinese achievement.
      Cheers
      Dave B.

      70

      • #
        theRealUniverse

        Yes, high PM rates are the big worry there. Mostly was from old style factories most of which are now gone. I agree, the words pollutant and emissions are mixed deliberately.

        40

  • #
    pat

    10 Oct: AFR: Fortescue boss dismisses PM’s claim China no longer ‘developing’
    by Peter Ker, Resources reporter
    Iron ore miner Fortescue Metals Group has rejected Prime Minister Scott Morrison’s suggestion that China should be considered a developed nation under international trade rules, saying its biggest customer would still be “developing” for years to come…

    China purchased 92 per cent of Fortescue’s iron ore in fiscal 2019 and more than 80 per cent of all iron ore exported from Australia, and Ms Gaines said it was “critical” that Australia sustained its strong relationship with China.
    ”I think China, under the International Monetary Fund (IMF) description of what is a developing country, with a GDP per capita of less than $10,000 is a developing country,” she said on the sidelines of the Melbourne Mining Club…
    China produced 928 million tonnes of steel in 2018 and Ms Gaines said it would go close to producing 1 billion tonnes for the first time in 2019…
    https://www.afr.com/companies/mining/fmg-boss-dismisses-scomo-s-developed-china-call-20191010-p52zj1

    50

  • #
    pat

    Peter Gleeson on Sky suggested the IMF scolding of Australia over coal would be something like music to the ears of the XR brigade when they protest tomorrow. ditto this one presumably:

    10 Oct: SMH: Another firm cuts ties with Adani over Qld mine
    By Nicholas McElroy
    Cardno chairman Michael Alscher said the infrastructure firm would be ending work for a subcontractor to Adani in coming weeks and would not seek any future tenders with the Indian mining company.
    He said the mine had been a contentious issue with staff and customers.
    “As a company, we have decided that we will no longer do any further work with the company,” Mr Alscher told the Cardno annual general meeting in Sydney on Thursday.

    “Given the project and the controversy around that, it is best if we not participate in the project at all.”
    Asked whether financial concerns came into play, Mr Alscher said the company considered “the matter from every perspective”.
    “We took into account commercial and social factors, our company values, as well as feedback from other clients and our employees,” Mr Alscher told AAP.

    Last month Federal Resources Minister Matt Canavan called engineering firm Aurecon “weak as piss” when it ended its relationship with Adani’s Abbot Point coal terminal after being targeted by climate activists…
    https://www.smh.com.au/business/companies/another-firm-cuts-ties-with-adani-over-qld-mine-20191010-p52zm4.html?utm_medium=Social&utm_source=Twitter#Echobox=1570703639

    41

  • #
    pat

    10 Oct: SMH: No ‘silver bullet’ to fix energy affordability crisis: ACCC’s Rod Sims
    By Laura Chung
    Competition tsar Rod Sims says energy companies must shoulder blame with policymakers for Australia’s energy affordability crisis, but there is no easy solution to spiralling power bills.
    “Energy prices are, quite simply, way too high in Australia,” he said.
    “Many of the commentary suggests that various government policies are to blame but this is simplistic, and sometimes a deliberate diversion. Industry must shoulder an important part of the blame,” he said in a speech to The Australian Financial Review’s Energy Summit in Sydney.
    Mr Sims noted the east coast gas and Australian electricity markets have seen significant price increases and that the causes for this are “more confusing than ever”, which makes it “difficult to find solutions to the affordability issue”…

    Electricity prices have increased by nearly 50 per cent in real terms in the last 10 years, Mr Sims said, with factors such as green schemes, uncompetitive standing offers, and the loss of cheaper dispatchable power from the closures of the Northern and Hazelwood power stations all contributing.
    The largest component of most consumers’ bills is the cost of networks, and a significant amount of this cost is attributable to past over-investment, he noted…

    The key to lowering gas prices along the east coast was to boost and diversify supply, he said. Mr Sims also questioned why there was not more investment in gas peaking plants to firm up renewable energy…
    https://www.smh.com.au/business/markets/accc-s-rod-sims-no-silver-bullet-to-fix-energy-affordability-crisis-20191010-p52zgh.html?utm_medium=Social&utm_source=Twitter#Echobox=1570688559

    31

    • #
      robert rosicka

      Pat no good having a gas peaker when we barely have enough gas as it is on the east coast .
      High prices have been a direct result of state intervention in the market ,Qld have upped their prices to cover their largess expenses.
      Victoriastan has raised the tax on coal by 300% then closed down Hazelwood and South oz ,well south oz is a basket case .
      To further add insult and expense the states have been subsidising the crap out of intermittent power generation and now mandate that electrons from intermittent get first priority to the system when the sun is shining and when the wind is blowing that is .
      Add to all that the solar panel subsidy scheme and voila ,higher prices .

      80

  • #
    pat

    the full Sinodinos:

    begin at 2min52sec: Alexander Downer – nothing to see there. then on to ABC’s “dominant” issue of the week – Morrison’s anti-globalism speech/CAGW; Sinodinos on climate/Paris.

    AUDIO: 9min20sec: 9 Oct: ABC RN Drive: Arthur Sinodinos talks about Syria, US relations, climate change
    https://www.abc.net.au/radionational/programs/drive/arthur-sinodinos-talks-about-syria,-us-relations,-climate-change/11588104

    51

  • #
    pat

    a coupe of thousand XR & some ill-informed so-called student strikers don’t represent Britons, Reuters, and you know it:

    10 Oct: Reuters: Shell to offset carbon emissions for British fuel buyers
    by Susanna Twidale
    Royal Dutch Shell (RDSa.L) said on Thursday it would offset the carbon dioxide emissions of around 1.5 million road users in Britain starting later this month under a loyalty scheme.
    Shell, like other oil companies, has come under pressure from shareholders to show how it plans to reduce its carbon footprint and help cut greenhouse gas emissions, a major cause of global warming.
    Britons are increasingly concerned about their environmental impact, with thousands of students striking earlier this year and green group Extinction Rebellion carrying out civil disobedience to push for more ambition on climate change…

    From Oct. 17, emissions relating to fuel purchased by customers with the Shell Go+ app or card will be offset for free until September 2020…
    Some climate groups say offsetting should be used as a last resort and that absolute emission cuts should be the priority.
    Shell said it would use carbon credits from conservation projects in Peru, Indonesia, the United States and Britain.
    Most of the credits that will be used for the scheme have already been bought, Shell said, but it did not disclose the purchase price…

    Credits traded under a U.N.-backed scheme are trading at around 0.22 euro CEREZ9 per tonne of carbon dioxide, while carbon-offsetting firms can charge around 8 euros a tonne.
    https://uk.reuters.com/article/uk-shell-carbon-offset/shell-to-offset-carbon-emissions-for-british-fuel-buyers-idUKKBN1WO2WF

    61

  • #
    Bill in Oz

    Twenty one RED THUMBS
    So far
    For PF.
    Is any thing that he writes sensible ?
    I no longer know nor care !

    101

  • #
    • #
      el gordo

      Ummm …. we should not concern ourselves with a shortage of water, a cool wet decade is approaching. PM Morrison is on a mission to build dams before the next big wet and humungous floods.

      50

      • #
        PeterS

        Please supply evidence of such a mission because I haven’t heard of such good news.

        40

        • #
          el gordo

          He was on TV last night saying he wanted to build new dams and Premier Gladys is removing the green tape to fast track infrastructure.

          50

          • #
            beowulf

            EG you are the eternal optimist.

            He was going to make the drought his top priority when he got into power . . . still waiting Scott. The main drought relief is due to come into effect from 1st July 2020, by which time half the drought-stricken farms will be abandoned and the suicide rate through the roof.

            50

            • #
              el gordo

              Drought relief is a stop gap, like interest free loans, what Morrison needs to do is drought proof the MDB by building more dams and raising dams to capture a decade of increased La Nina activity. They have a year up their sleeve.

              30

              • #
                PeterS

                Drought relief would be a stop gap if it was actually being implemented. It’s not happening to any great extent so it’s just a thought bubble at the moment. That’s why the rural suicide rate is so high.

                10

              • #
                Peter Fitzroy

                Of course, rather than using crops more suited to our environment, let’s put the taxpayers on the hook for dams.

                As you state below, it’s tough being a farmer, but you want to support them with a socialist water scheme, such that operations like cubby station can make out like bandits.

                /inequality

                114

              • #
                theRealUniverse

                Aus needs to do something on a proper large scale. MOVE water from wet areas to dry, ok it will cost but it will cost MORE if it doesnt happen. They seem always to be waiting or isnt it about time they realise that droughts are the NORM here? Not climate change.
                LNp, ALP, Nats get of your butts and FIX it, youve had a hundred years to get the message that cows cant survive on dust.

                50

              • #
                el gordo

                Fitz its not a socialist water scheme, Beijing would drought proof the MDB for no upfront costs, a user pays policy bringing water from the Ord.

                The infrastructure cost is around six billion dollars, with the China Infrastructure Bank lending cheap money. Of course they won’t get a quick return on their investment because the MDB is going to be awash for a decade.

                50

              • #
                beowulf

                Which magical crops would they be PF? I’m familiar with most, but I don’t know of any that grow without water. We aren’t talking rice or something, we are talking pasture grasses, and I can assure you native grasses die off just as well as introduced species during drought. Both will return after rain, but not before.

                Grazing roos in place of cattle won’t help either: they also need grass to survive so I’ve heard.

                If you plan on eating during the rest of your life then we need to support farmers to make that a possibility, or do you plan on importing much of our food from OS at a high cost of “carbon miles” in transport?

                50

              • #
                AndyG55

                “rather than using crops more suited to our environment”

                A certain Tony Abbott had plans to open up northern Australia.

                /PF prefers synthetics to cotton

                40

          • #
            PeterS

            Words are useless to me. I need to see a real commitment. I’m an extremely patient person but there are limits. Farmers too but given the suicide rate is out of control it’s clear their limits in patience have been exceeded.

            60

            • #
              el gordo

              The farmers and graziers have always done it tough because its a land of drought and flooding rains. There is a resilience which will endure.

              42

              • #
                PeterS

                Tell that to those who are so desperate they are willing to commit suicide. I’m sure many will survive but as a nation we can’t afford any longer to wait for the next lot of rains after each drought. We are supposed to be in the 21st Century not the 19th. Other developed nations suffer severe droughts too but they deal with them much better than we do. Some even are near desert situations permanently. We need more water storage infrastructure for another reason; rapidly increasing population. We can do better but we are not. We are behaving like a third world country. If the Morrison government doesn’t come up with a plan very soon it will be exposed as a “do nothing” government not much unlike Turnbull’s government.

                50

              • #
                el gordo

                A lot of Australia is marginal and new dams need to be constructed, which is why Premier Gladys is cutting the green tape.

                The Morrison government has a plan, the Reserve Bank has told him to start building new infrastructure or it’ll be crash and burn.

                41

        • #
          Graeme#4

          I’m also intrigued EG. I thought that historically, a cooler climate is usually a drier climate.

          20

    • #
      Bill in Oz

      As world population is still growing significantly
      Of course water will become scarcer.
      Without fresh water humans cannot survive.
      But the amount of water
      Which falls each year as rain across the planet
      Is pretty stable.
      So there is bugger all to be done about it.
      And here in Oz
      The drought in the Darling river basin continues.

      40

  • #
    Glen Livingston

    Just for fun I added a few more “Cannots” and made it a set of principles(from an American perspective)……….enjoy!

    The Official Cannot Party Principles
    (“Yes, We Cannot”)

    1. You cannot bring about prosperity by discouraging thrift.
    2. You cannot strengthen the weak by weakening the strong
    3. You cannot help the poor man by destroying the rich.
    4. You cannot further the brotherhood of man by inciting class hatred.
    5. You cannot build character and courage by taking away man’s initiative and independence.
    6. You cannot help small men by tearing down big men.
    7. You cannot lift the wage earner by pulling down the wage payer.
    8. You cannot keep out of trouble by spending more than your income.
    9. You cannot establish security on borrowed money.
    10. You cannot help men permanently by doing for them what they will not do for themselves.
    11. You cannot create an atmosphere of bipartisanship by telling anyone to sit in the back seat.
    12. You cannot grow the trust of the electorate by reading a bill after you have voted for it.
    13. You cannot run the most powerful country in the world from a golf course.
    14. You cannot demonstrate an understanding of leadership by having different rules and benefits for those in power than for everyone else.
    15. You cannot spend your way to prosperity.
    16. You cannot heal self or a society by avoiding the discomfort, pain, or effort of the required process.
    17. You cannot borrow your way out of debt.
    18. You cannot encourage the unemployed to get a job by endlessly extending unemployment benefits (that is called welfare).
    19. You cannot create an atmosphere of civil discourse by blaming the words of any politician for the actions of a mentally deranged individual.
    20. You cannot convince anyone that they are seen as a trustworthy and productive citizen by taking away their second amendment rights.
    21. You cannot demonstrate that you are a person of honor by first pledging “transparency” and then playing hide and seek with your birth certificate.

    Suzanna Gratia Hupp Quote:
    “How a politician stands on the Second Amendment tells you how he or she views you as an individual… as a trustworthy and productive citizen, or as part of an unruly crowd that needs to be lorded over, controlled, supervised, and taken care of.”

    60

  • #
    A Crooks

    You cannot bring about prosperity by discouraging thrift.
    The key one is the first one. To build a civilized society you need to encourage deferred gratification
    This what is needed to move from a hunting and gathering society to a farming society

    The Grampsian agenda is explicitly aimed at undermining those institutions through which deferred gratification occurs.

    70

  • #
    pat

    10 Oct: AFR: Older coal-fired power stations a better bet, says Trevor St Baker
    by Simon Evans
    Keeping older coal-fired power stations operating for longer is far better than having a stab at new technologies such as carbon capture and storage or high-efficiency low emissions plants, according to coal baron Trevor St Baker.
    While climate change activists have declared the end of fossil fuels, industry advocates and energy experts say coal – which accounts for 75 per cent of Australia’s energy generation – will be around for decades…

    While some companies had baulked at the price tag of keeping older coal-fired power plants open, Mr St Baker said it was still the best and cheapest way to deliver reliable energy, especially when renewables had their limitations during times of low sunshine and wind.
    “There’s no natural life to a coal-fired power plant,” he told The Australian Financial Review National Energy Summit…
    Mr St Baker said it made sense to keep coal-fired plants operating because the economics stacked up – they had already been paid for and still had a robust shelf life…

    “We already have a program for extending the life of that [Vales Point] for another 20 years. The cost of that is $750 million and to replace it with a new plant would be $2 billion.”
    Coal-fired plants were the bedrock of keeping energy costs down and retaining jobs in Australia, he said.
    “If we don’t keep it going, we won’t keep business and jobs in this country.”
    Mr St Baker dismissed the need for Australia to do more to reach international climate targets, saying it was more important to protect jobs and the economy.

    “All of this pantomime that goes on about how we have to have 100 per cent sun and wind,” he said, was not focusing on the big issue of power reliability…READ ON
    https://www.afr.com/companies/energy/older-coal-fired-power-stations-a-better-bet-says-trevor-st-baker-20191010-p52zgw

    110

    • #
      AndyG55

      Problem is that we still need to provide extra dispatchable electricity.

      That means either new coal or new gas (we don’t have the terrain or rainfall for hydro.)

      Yes, keep the old ones going by updating and maintaining,

      … but a new HELE plant is desperately needed in each eastern mainland state.

      100

  • #
    Neville

    I hope Jo gets home okay, minus anymore major problems. BTW I must check whether this Bolt, Latham video works okay on this site. Having problems over at Don Aitkin’s blog.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KArS5ArSYY4&list=PL2OFHLSeLxlYU4Pnch95gKgJOgeTH71DU

    80

    • #
      Serp

      One of the highlights of this occurs at 4:30 when Bolt switches to an audio clip of Jon Faine cutting off a caller with the formula “We’re not giving air time to climate deniers … we’re talking about whether or not the tactics of the Extinction Rebellion are appropriate or not…”

      Blessedly he’s retired today but his arrogant bigotry is intrinsic to the doctrine espoused by all employees of the entire far left Our ABC enterprise.

      61

    • #
      Peter C

      Thanks Neville.

      Mark Latham (ex leader of the ALP) is one politician who gets it. And he is prepared to say that the whole of Global Warming is BS. One solitary (almost) brave politician.

      60

  • #
    pat

    forget the climate election that wasn’t. ABC hears from Greens candidate, Janet Murray, who got 6.87% of the Hunter vote – 7,007 votes out of a 112,075 turnout (Joel Fitgibbons won the seat, but with a huge swing against him due to Labor’s ever-changing position on coal).

    AUDIO: 8min03sec: 11 Oct: ABC Breakfast: Newcastle’s mine closures: the lessons to be learned
    Presenter: Geraldine Doogue
    A Senate committee is looking at jobs for the future in regional areas, as the Morrison Government tries to encourage migrants to move to the regions and ***as existing fossil fuel industries face eventual shutdown.
    Chemical engineer Janet Murray was superintendent of blast furnace operations at BHP in the New South Wales city of Newcastle when it closed its steelworks there 20 years ago.
    She has told the committee there are valuable lessons from that closure – including for the Hunter region, as it eventually transitions out of coal mining in the coming decades…
    Guest: Janet Murray, Greens’ candidate for Hunter, 2019 federal election and former superintendent of blast furnace operations, BHP Newcastle
    https://www.abc.net.au/radionational/programs/breakfast/newcastles-mine-closures:-the-lessons-to-be-learned/11592688

    (paraphrasing) Geraldine: the senate committee – a Greens initiative – will hold hearings in Mackay today re employment for new migrants & helping workers transition from fossil fuel idustries. Janet Murray has made a submission to the committee.

    Murray: the shut-down of the Newscastle steel works was memorialised with a statue, a book, a play, a ballet and a choir.
    Geraldine impressed: so it didn’t look as though it was a pathetic, obsolete event there was a sense of pride of where they’d been even if they weren’t there anymore.

    the closure wasn’t seen so kindly when Tony Abbott was PM!

    Feb 2014: SMH: Newcastle’s steely resolve masks painful scars from BHP shutdown
    By Damien Murphy
    Taking heat for Australia’s car industry closure, Prime Minister Tony Abbott offered the experience of the once-mighty industrial city as the rebound route, saying since the steelworks closed on September 30, 1999, Newcastle was now a ”different and, many would say, somewhat better city today”.
    Perhaps not that many.
    Nearly 43 per cent of respondents to a Newcastle Herald poll, published last week, disagreed with Mr Abbott…

    While Newcastle’s unemployment rate has dropped from its historic position above the NSW average, it is no longer the working man’s paradise – heaven has shifted to the Hunter Valley coalfields…

    (Aubrey Brooks, former BHP worker) said in the years since, some had committed suicide, others had wives, unused to their presence at home, leave their marriages. Most, Mr Brooks said, were forced into early retirements of fishing or drinking.
    Paul Cartledge, of Pathways Employment Services, a company set up initially by BHP to smooth the transition, said 15 months after the closure, about 90 per cent of the men had jobs or were getting educational qualifications. But BHP had been laying off people for years (11,448 worked at the steelworks in 1964) or outsourcing the workforce to private contractors – so the real impact of the shutdown remained hidden…

    “Younger workers got jobs with One Steel or the smelters,” Mr Cartledge said.
    “But it was the older workers, the ***over 45s, who found it difficult. They still do.”…
    https://www.smh.com.au/national/nsw/newcastles-steely-resolve-masks-painful-scars-from-bhp-shutdown-20140219-330y9.html

    ***when Geraldine mentions the difficulties experienced b the “over 45s”, Murray mentions just one … who, she said, eventually got transferred to a BHP job elsewhere. lovely.

    50

  • #
    pat

    the article mentioned in comment #30. when will the govt pull out of Paris?

    11 Oct: SMH: Australia will miss Paris goals even with a $US75 a tonne carbon tax: IMF
    By Shane Wright
    Australia would fail to meet its Paris Agreement commitments to cut greenhouse gas emissions even with a $US75 carbon tax that would drive up Australia’s electricity prices by 75 per cent over the next decade.
    Research by the International Monetary Fund, released on Friday, shows Australia is still so dependent on coal and other greenhouse gas-intensive energy sources that even direct intervention to address climate change won’t be enough for the country to reach its international commitments…

    But the IMF said just to limit global warming to 2 degrees or less, ambitious action had to be taken now…
    The fund looked at the impact three rates of carbon tax, at $US25 ($37) a tonne, $US50 ($74) and $US75 ($111), to see how this would affect emissions from the world’s 20 largest economies…

    “Whereas a $US25 a tonne price would be more than enough for some countries (for example,
    China, India, and Russia) to meet their Paris Agreement pledges, in other cases (for example, Australia and Canada) even the $US75 ($111) a tonne carbon tax falls short,” it said…READ ON
    https://www.smh.com.au/politics/federal/australia-will-miss-paris-goals-even-with-a-us75-a-tonne-carbon-tax-imf-20191010-p52zct.html

    50

  • #
    pat

    ***Michelle Grattan looks toward the Greens out of the corner of her eye; virtually ignores the voters’ rejection of the “climate election”; but manages a reasonably factual final para:

    11 Oct: ABC: Joel Fitzgibbon has a radical climate policy idea but it’s risky
    The Conversation By Michelle Grattan
    Do activists represent the wider community view?
    But the climate policy — for a 45 per cent reduction in emissions by 2030 and a target of net zero by 2050 — has become an article of faith within Labor, and among many of its supporters.
    It’s also a policy that in the election split the voters Labor needed, attracting some but driving away others.
    Weaken the policy and there will be a reaction from the ALP’s inner-city constituents, ***who tend to look toward the Greens out of the corner of their eye…
    Keep a very high target and lose people once again — to the Coalition or minor parties on the right — from the traditional base, including in regional areas, especially in Queensland where coal mining ***is a thing…

    It’s ***hard to assess precisely the extent to which the step up in activism represents the wider public view. Indeed the civil disobedience demonstrations are infuriating some people because of the disruption…

    Mr Fitzgibbon, who represents the NSW coal seat of Hunter and experienced voter wrath in May, won’t get the ambit claim he outlined this week.
    That would be going too far for the party, and for its climate spokesman Mark Butler who has a lot of reputation at stake.
    Fortunately for the Government, Mr Fitzgibbon’s intervention reduced the attention on its energy policy, the ***inadequacy of which was again highlighted this week.

    Is Morrison wilfully blind or afraid?
    As the Coalition pushes ahead with seeking to get its “big stick” legislation to deal with recalcitrant power companies through Parliament, criticisms of its policy came from, among others, the chair of the Energy Security Board Kerry Schott and the Grattan Institute.
    Ms Schott, whose board advises federal and state governments, wrote in the Australian Financial Review, ahead of the paper’s energy summit, “Government interventions to cap prices and to effectively subsidise certain generation projects will not encourage the considerable new investment and innovation that is needed”.
    The Grattan Institute, which released a report on Australia’s electricity markets, said the Government’s “fight to avoid the impending closure of the Liddell coal power station in NSW makes it harder for Australia to achieve its emissions reduction targets, and is likely to increase electricity prices and reduce the reliability of supplies”.

    In theory, Mr Morrison could have tried to use the great authority his unexpected election win gave him to pursue more appropriate energy and emissions-reduction policies. Admittedly, it would have been extremely difficult, as it would have contradicted much the Government had been saying and doing…
    Mr Morrison is either wilfully blind to what needs to be done (although when treasurer he supported the more rational policy of a National Energy Guarantee), or he is afraid to stir those powerful naysayers in his party…

    Meanwhile, Australia’s overall emissions rise (although electricity emissions are down, as some coal-fired power goes out of the system); high electricity prices remain a burden on private and business consumers alike; and there is nervousness about the summer power supply.
    https://www.abc.net.au/news/2019-10-11/joel-fitzgibbon-has-a-radical-climate-policy-idea-but-its-risky/11592678

    30

  • #
    pat

    10 Oct: RenewEconomy: ACCC new push to end rooftop solar subsidies appears to get support from Taylor
    by Michael Mazengarb
    Sims used his speech to the AFR Energy Summit to single out incentives offered for the installation of rooftop solar as being an ‘unnecessary’ cost to consumers, suggesting that the cost of green schemes exceeded the value of the energy produced by the systems.
    “Initial feed-in tariffs for rooftop solar were set too generously. Not only is the price paid for this energy far in excess of the value of the power delivered, the cost of these tariffs and other subsidies is paid for by non-solar customers, which is an unfortunate allocation of costs,” Sims said…

    Taylor this week leapt on the recommendation of the ACCC to wind back subsidies, and appeared to support the early phase-out of the Small-scale Renewable Energy Scheme…READ ON
    https://reneweconomy.com.au/accc-new-push-to-end-rooftop-solar-subsidies-appears-to-get-support-from-taylor-67033/

    lengthy, read all:

    10 Oct: RenewEconomy: Is Angus Taylor on a one-man mission to stop wind and solar?
    by Giles Parkinson
    “We have crossed the threshold,” Taylor told the AFR energy summit this week. “If you look at the last month we have consistently been above 25 per cent intermittent renewables.”
    Taylor’s message is that the system can’t cope, and that new wind and solar should be stopped in its tracks, and what he calls the “only solutions” available to balance their output – coal, gas and hydro – built or propped up to maintain grid reliability. Batteries, he dismisses, have only a role to play in minor markets like frequency control.
    It’s palpable nonsense of course, and truly frightening that the country’s federal energy minister should hold such views, either through prejudice or ignorance.

    South Australia’s grid is operating just fine at more than 50 per cent wind and solar, and the local Liberal state government has plans to more than double that, and go “net 100 per cent renewables.” The Australian Energy Market Operator is busy putting together a 20-year blueprint that will show how Australia can transition its grid to a very high level of renewables.
    Last year, chief scientist Alan Finkel released a report by the Australian Council of Learned Academies (ACOLA) that showed little storage was needed until wind and solar reached between 35 per cent to 50 per cent share of the grid. The report by experts was rejected as “eco-evangelism” by the Coalition…

    Taylor is not quite a one-man band. He views are shared by Coalition MPs, the Murdoch media, and prominent donors like coal magnate Trevor St Baker, and even by ACCC chair Rod Sims, his mentor at Port Jackson Partners.
    https://reneweconomy.com.au/is-angus-taylor-on-a-one-man-mission-to-stop-wind-and-solar-30126/

    40

  • #
    pat

    Labor’s climate policy turns a bit frosty
    The Australian – 9 Oct 2019
    Labor frontbencher Matt Keogh has backed Joel Fitzgibbon’s call for the party to reach a “political settlement” on Australia’s 2030 emissions…

    AAP can’t be bothered to include Keogh’s position!

    10 Oct: 9News: AAP: Another Labor MP wants low climate targets
    Matt Keogh told The Australian on Thursday he backs Labor resources spokesman Joel Fitzgibbon’s call to bring the party’s target to a 28 per cent reduction of 2005 levels by 2030…
    Labor Queensland senator Anthony Chisholm told the Australian the party couldn’t leave itself vulnerable to scare campaigns from the government.
    Labor frontbencher and Queensland MP Shayne Neumann told the broadsheet Mr Fitzgibbon’s speech was “important” and “unless you are seen to be supporting the mining industry you can’t win seats in Queensland”…
    https://www.9news.com.au/national/another-labor-mp-wants-low-climate-targets/bb11be44-0bb0-4dba-9271-47ba701347c5

    10 Oct: Guardian: Labor must help Coalition pass legislation even if it disappoints ‘purists’
    Deputy leader Richard Marles says ALP must be more pragmatic and become the party of ‘aspiration’
    by Paul Karp
    In a draft of a speech to be delivered at the John Curtin research centre on Thursday, Marles has argued the opposition’s “clumsy” attempts to “walk the tightrope” on the Adani coalmine left blue-collar workers feeling abandoned at the last election and it must take a more pragmatic approach even if it risks disappointing “purists”.
    Marles is one of a number of right-faction Labor spokesmen and women to argue Labor must position itself as the party of “aspiration”, echoing calls by its communications spokeswoman, Michelle Rowland, on Thursday for Labor to “advance aspiration and better the lives of working people”, and unite in the face of public division over key policies…

    On Thursday frontbench MP Matt Keogh gave qualified support for a deal on an emissions reduction target for this term of government, suggesting Labor could then reassess ahead of the next election depending on how successful the Coalition was at reducing emissions by 2022…
    https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2019/oct/10/labor-must-help-coalition-pass-legislation-even-if-it-disappoints-purists

    30

  • #
    robert rosicka

    Looks like Facebook have had enough of my continued call out of fake science and banned me , oh well if calling out lies hurts their ideology so be it .

    50

  • #
    pat

    Alan Jones spoke to one of the authors, Rod Campbell, on 2GB this morning – no specific audio online at the moment. I don’t recall the actual cost to taxpayers being mentioned:

    7 Oct: TheAustraiaInstitute: Dam Shame: the New Dams Politicians Won’t Talk About
    Research released by The Australia Institute today contradicts claims by federal and state government ministers that new dams are not being built in Australia.
    The report, Dam shame: The hidden new dams in Australia, shows that 20 to 30 large new dams have been recently constructed, funded at least in part by the taxpayer.
    At least ten of these new dams are visible on the Hay-Griffith road in the Murrumbidgee Valley in NSW.
    Just two of the new dams in the Murrumbidgee received nearly $30 million, while dam-related projects in the wider Murray Darling have received over $200 million in taxpayer funding…

    “The reason politicians won’t talk about these dams is that they do nothing for drought-stricken communities, the health of the river or struggling farmers,” said Maryanne Slattery, Senior Water Researcher at The Australia Institute.
    “These dams have been built on private land and are for the exclusive use of corporate agribusiness, such as Webster Limited.
    “Politicians are reluctant to talk about why millions of taxpayer dollars have been spent subsidising dams that make the problems of the Murray Darling Basin worse…
    “These dams are up to 8 meters deep, but they don’t replace shallower ones. Most of the water they divert would otherwise be either in rivers or held in public headwater dams around 100 meters deep…

    “Just last week a Canadian pension fund paid a 50% premium for a stake in properties with new taxpayer-funded dams…
    “It’s time for a federal royal commission into the mismanagement of the Murray Darling Basin.”
    ***DOWNLOAD REPORT
    Authors: Rod Campbell, Maryanne Slattery, Audrey Quicke
    https://www.tai.org.au/content/dam-shame-new-dams-politicians-won-t-talk-about

    60

    • #
      pat

      found the audio elsewhere; Rod Campbell segment begins at 5min10sec. worth a listen:

      AUDIO: 14min23sec: 11 Oct: OMNY FM: Rod Campbell from the Australia Institute on water and dams
      https://omny.fm/shows/the-alan-jones-breakfast-show/rod-campbell-from-the-australia-institute-on-water

      30

      • #
        AndyG55

        This is water they would have been allowed to take from the river anyway.

        Flow down those rivers is around 10,000 GL+ pa combined

        as quoted, the biggest of these dams might be around 30GL

        Get the facts.. but NOT from the Australia Institute.

        40

        • #
          pat

          AndyG55 -

          I get that…which is why I excerpted the dimensions of the dams. interesting nonetheless, despite it coming from the CAGW-obsessed TAI.

          40

    • #
      Peter Fitzroy

      So capitalism via theft, with the taxpayer helping out.

      /and some think socialism is bad

      012

      • #
        el gordo

        Australian agribusiness needs support, otherwise it might be taken over by a multinational company like the Canadian Pension Fund.

        http://www.websterltd.com.au

        Websters pay their fair share in taxes and are deserving of our consideration.

        70

        • #
          Peter Fitzroy

          yep – and this is what channel 9 reports
          https://www.9news.com.au/national/fed-govt-spent-millions-on-dams-report/26c43bf1-93e0-4cd9-9576-492f1057d53d
          No wonder they were sold to a pension fund, you make money by getting the government to fund your investments in infrastructure, you diddle the allocation of water, you make money onselling at a higher price, you grow cotton on the driest continent.
          /agrarian socialism

          011

          • #
            el gordo

            Its a disgrace the way Canadian pensioners can just buy up our best land and agribusiness.

            ‘Mr Morison said the offer for Webster showed the drought and the controversy over water rights in the Murray Darling Basin was not deterring international investment in the region.

            “They will be in this for the long run and I think they will go into it knowing that two out of ten years in Australia are hit by drought.

            “The investors would be hoping they’ve seen those two droughts in the last two years and that things improve from here.”

            “In the long term I think Australian ag’s future is strong, we just have to endure the current situation with the drought.”

            North Queensland Register

            40

            • #
              AndyG55

              If Australian pension funds weren’t so busy propping up the renewable and AGW industry, perhaps they could have bought into it.

              Australian pension funds prefer to support China.

              110

              • #
                el gordo

                The Canadian Pension funds own half of Britain.

                60

              • #
                AndyG55

                And what do the British pension funds own ?

                60

              • #
                el gordo

                Dunno and I also wonder how so few pensioners could have amassed so much wealth in a relatively short time.

                The Ontario Teachers Pension Plan

                ‘The fund has stakes in Chinese companies including Hong Kong’s Chow Tai Fook, the world’s biggest jewellery firm, and Jingdong Mall, a mainland e-commerce operator looking to raise US$1.7 billion in a US listing.

                ‘Mock said the number of staff in Hong Kong office should double to about 20 people this year, with a senior manager overseeing the regional office.’

                South China Morning Post

                60

              • #
                AndyG55

                Point is, that pensioner funds can invest in whatever they want.

                If any of our pensions funds had got there first, they would own it.

                But they didn’t. They are too busy playing footsie with wind and solar.

                Not sure that will end too well for Australian pension funds.

                Seems the Canadian fund has more common sense.

                50

            • #
              Peter Fitzroy

              You are getting at least 10% on all those investments quoted, el gordo, in this case it is those water rights (and if you look carefully) are not really impacted by drought, both through the subsidised on-farm dams, and the allocations given by the government. For example, if you saved half you allocation in a good year, you can bank it, or sell it. That’s why you invest in the dams (with government help). Now even in a drought, you have capacity both on farm, and in those entitlements. This mob were allowed to pump this year for their cotton crop, even though there was not really enough water in the system. That’s because they had banked most of the previous allocations as this farm did.

              /if it stinks like a murray cod, thank your government.

              06

          • #
            AndyG55

            Cotton undies too, PF ?

            40

          • #
            gee aye

            you have learnt well and I suspect not just you

            30

      • #
        AndyG55

        poor PF, short on FACTS as always.

        51

  • #
    pat

    most have flown in for the 2019 C40 World Mayors Summit in Copenhagen – 9-12 October:

    9 Oct: C40.org Press release: Mayors Announce Support For Global Green New Deal; Recognize Global Climate Emergency
    C40 mayors, led by Mayor Garcetti (Los Angeles) and Mayor Hidalgo (Paris), announce support for a Global Green New Deal to “drive an urgent, fundamental and irreversible transfer of global resources away from fossil fuels and into action that averts the climate emergency.”
    Mayors of 94 climate leader cities recognise global climate emergency, joined by youth climate activists, representatives from labour, business and civil society…

    ***Lord Mayor of Sydney, Clover Moore, said:
    “Following more than a decade of committed climate action, the City of Sydney declared a climate emergency in June. We are calling on our Federal Government to move urgently to reintroduce a price on carbon so we can meet the emissions reduction targets outlined in the Paris Agreement, and establish a Just Transition Authority to ensure Australians employed in fossil fuel industries find good jobs in a green economy. Sydney is proud to support the Global Green New Deal announced today in Copenhagen and work with C40 Cities toward a future where all citizens can earn a living wage on a living planet. The impacts of the climate emergency will be felt by us all, but especially our most vulnerable, remote and marginalised communities, and those living in poverty. It is incumbent on all governments to rethink the way their economies work and offer greater social support while urgently acting to address the climate emergency.”…

    ***Jamie Margolin, Zero Hour Founder & Co-Executive Director, said: “This era is for everyone. It is not just for the United States, it is not even about a specific piece of legislation, it is about a global change of values, ideals, and ways of relating to each other and the earth. What we need worldwide is more than sustainability, because we cannot sustain the destruction we are causing to the earth, or the capitalism making our leaders dizzy with fantasies of endless economic growth that is simply not possible on our earth. We need the era of the green new deal, and it’s coming globally.”…

    May Boeve, Executive Director of 350.org, said: “Don’t let far-right Presidents get you down…

    The C40 World Mayors Summit is made possible with support from Grundfos, Novo Nordisk, Dell Technologies, IKEA, Microsoft, Rambøll, Velux, The Bernard van Leer Foundation…
    C40’s work is made possible by our three strategic funders: Bloomberg Philanthropies, Children’s Investment Fund Foundation (CIFF), and Realdania.
    (OMITTED: BRONZE PARTNER: GOOGLE)
    https://www.c40.org/press_releases/global-gnd

    ***WIKIPEDIA: Margolin is also a plaintiff in the Aji P. v. Washington case, suing the state of Washington for their inaction against climate change on the basis of a stable climate being a human right. Her writing about climate change has appeared in many publications including HuffPost, Teen Ink and CNN. She was part of Teen Vogue’s 21 Under 21 class of 2018. In 2018, she was also named as one of People Magazine’s 25 Women Changing the World.

    9 Oct: Guardian Cities: ‘Inspirational’: Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez applauds mayors’ Global Green New Deal
    Mayors of more than 90 of the world’s biggest cities voice support for bold proposal to fight climate change as they lambast ‘failed’ UN climate summit
    (Cities is funded by The Rockefeller Foundation)
    by Richard Orange
    Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez said she was ‘inspired’ by the Global Green New Deal, a bold proposal to fight climate change announced today by the C40 group of global mayors…
    Ocasio-Cortez arrived in Copenhagen on Wednesday morning ahead of the seventh World Mayors’ Summit held by the C40 group of leading global cities, where she is scheduled to make a speech on Friday…

    ***Jamie Margolin, Seattle-based high school senior who founded the US green pressure group Zero-Hour, called on the cities to raise their ambitions…

    Mark Watts, the C40 executive director, told the Guardian that the leaders of the US, Brazil, ***Australia, Russia and Turkey were now “essentially representatives of the fossil fuel industry”, so it was important for “the next most powerful group of politicians”, the mayors of the biggest cities, to step up.
    “It makes what we do even more important, because in the context of those really powerful nations not only holding back their own actions but blocking the whole of the United Nations, we’ve got to have momentum coming from somewhere else,” Watts said…

    (Anne Hidalgo, the mayor of Paris) said ahead of the conference that she supported the disruptive protests launched this week in London, Berlin and elsewhere by the protest group Extinction Rebellion.
    “We are facing a climate emergency, and a growing number of people around the world, particularly young people, are treating it as such,” she said.
    “We share their concern for the future of humanity, and we must push forward with courage and ambition to change the status quo that has generated this crisis.”

    As well as mayors, Watts said this year’s summit would bring together “more of the genuine national leaders of youth climate strikes than ever before”, with youth activists from 30 different countries.
    https://www.theguardian.com/cities/2019/oct/09/global-mayors-denounce-failed-un-climate-summit-c40-conference

    20

    • #
      pat

      the activists might have to protest against Denmark!

      10 Oct: Reuters: Denmark sets up temporary border control with Sweden after attacks
      by Jacob Gronholt-Pedersen
      Denmark is to impose temporary border controls at the Swedish border next month, after Swedes were suspected of being behind a number of serious attacks this year in the Danish capital Copenhagen, the justice minister said on Thursday.
      Sweden, which itself has had controls at the border since 2015 to try to stop asylum seekers from entering the country, welcomed the move…

      “To counter the threat of serious cross-border crime, we are now strengthening the protection of the border against Sweden by introducing temporary border control and strengthening police efforts in border areas with Sweden,” Justice Minister Nick Haekkerup said at a news conference on Thursday…
      oth countries are members of the European Union, which needs to approve the move…
      https://uk.reuters.com/article/uk-denmark-border-sweden-idUKKBN1WP0V2

      30

    • #
      Serp

      That’s our municipal rates paying for this climate love in. Global Green New Deal coming! Who’ll pay?

      50

  • #
    pat

    10 Oct: CNN: Temperatures in Denver dropped ***64 degrees in less than 24 hours, setting a record
    By Lauren M. Johnson
    Temperatures in Colorado plunged 64 degrees on Thursday, the largest temperature drop the state has ever seen in October.
    It’s also the 15th largest temperature drop over a two day period in Denver’s history, according to the National Weather Service.
    At the Denver airport alone, the temperature dropped 55 degrees.

    CNN meteorologist Taylor Ward said at 2 p.m. on Wednesday it was 79 degrees and on Thursday at 2 p.m. the temperature read 24 degrees.
    The cold front moved in on Wednesday night bringing extremely gusty winds, snow, and the first freeze of the season…
    Denver was two degrees away from breaking the all-time temperature drop record of 66 degrees that occurred on January 25, 1872…
    https://edition.cnn.com/2019/10/10/us/denver-temperature-record-trnd/index.html

    one day earlier, only a 50 degree drop predicted:

    9 Oct: CNN: Temperatures could drop ***50 degrees in 24 hours ahead of historic snowfall
    by Judson Jones & Jennifer Gray; CNN’s Monica Garrett and Sara Tonks contributed to this report
    An intense and potentially historic fall snowstorm is expected to dump feet of snow starting Wednesday across portions of the north-central United States.
    It begins on Wednesday night and Thursday, when extreme cold temperatures will sweep down from the north.
    Then a low will exit the Rockies and track northeast across the Plains leaving a blanket of snow across the region…

    A drastic temperature drop Wednesday will make it feel like Denver has gone from fall to winter in 24 hours.
    Temperatures there will plummet from a high around 80 degrees Fahrenheit Wednesday to below freezing for Thursday’s high…
    Once the temperatures drop, record lows are likely to be broken across much of the region…
    Other notable temperature drops this week include:
    • Amarillo: From 85 degrees to 29 degrees in 36 hours
    • Minneapolis: From 65 degrees to 33 degrees in 33 hours
    • Kansas City: From 71 degrees to 41 degrees in 15 hours
    • Albuquerque: From 70 degrees to 29 degrees in 15 hours
    • Oklahoma City: From 74 degrees to 39 degrees in 18 hours
    • Lubbock: From 80° to 34° in 16 hours
    • Chicago: From 68 degrees to 38 degrees in 18 hours

    Snow totals could break records
    The National Weather Service office in Bismarck is referring to this storm as a “potentially historic October winter storm”, as parts of 10 states are under some sort of winter watch, warning or advisory from the northern Rockies to the northern Plains…
    https://edition.cnn.com/2019/10/09/weather/snowstorm-colorado-dakota-montana/index.html

    30

  • #

    We know we’re allowed to discuss what happened many millions of years back, when continents were in different positions etc, and we’re allowed to discuss any “extreme” that’s spanking fresh. What we’re not encouraged to talk about is the climate of humans (Quaternary) and that of modern humans, particularly in the last 13 thousand years. No need to wonder why!

    I don’t take this article too seriously, nor does its author, but it’s an interesting mish-mash of ideas on that forbidden subject: past climate that is not too remote or too close to get a good picture or perspective.

    https://www.sott.net/article/357709-Of-Flash-Frozen-Mammoths-and-Cosmic-Catastrophes#

    So Russia did it!

    Alternate origins and extinctions don’t draw me, but even hard heads have found these very late extinctions around the Younger Dryas to be a puzzle. Some sciency types come up with flip opinions (over-hunting and so on) to make the NSFW subject go away, but other, more scientific than sciency, are happy to dig about.

    Take the article with a full cellar of salt and keep in mind that the author almost admits to pulling our legs with his Mars water theory. Much of the article seems silly, but good-silly, make-think silly.

    I’d love to know more about what went on just as our interglacial was getting underway and was so rudely interrupted by a cooling seemingly more lethal than the glacial max which had preceded it by a few thousand years.

    As to the popping up of actual architecture at Gobekli Tepe and settled, walled communities in Jericho so quickly after the Younger Dryas mess…I’m busting to know more. No harm in thinking, right? (Yeah, I know, these days there is harm in thinking, but let me dream on…)

    60

  • #
    pat

    ***posted for the mention of Macquarie:

    10 Oct: AmericanThinker: American Thinker’s scoop on Trump getting Port of Long Beach out of Chicom hands getting noticed
    By Monica Showalter
    Here’s an impressive quiet accomplishment from the Trump administration, now noted by Judicial Watch (LINK):
    Under a long-term deal sealed by the Obama administration, a Chinese Communist company was set to control the second-busiest container port in the United States. In an unreported Trump administration victory, the Communists are out after a drawn-out national security review forced a unit of China-based COSCO Shipping Holdings Co. (Orient Overseas Container Line—OOCL) to sell the cherished container terminal business, which handles among the largest freight of imports into the U.S.
    It all started with a 40-year container terminal lease between the Port of Long Beach in southern California and Hong Kong. The Obama administration proudly signed the agreement in 2012 giving China control of America’s second-largest container port behind the nearby Port of Los Angeles…

    After a national security review and federal intervention, the Long Beach terminal business, which handles millions of containers annually, is finally being sold to an Australian company called ***Macquarie Infrastructure Partners. That essentially kills China’s decades-long contract with the Obama administration…
    https://www.americanthinker.com/blog/2019/10/american_thinkers_scoop_on_trump_getting_port_of_long_beach_out_of_chicom_hands_getting_noticed.html

    50

  • #
    pat

    oops, wrong place:

    10 Oct: Guido Fawkes UK: Protestors Storm Wrong Office
    Animal Rebellion just tweeted that “Animal Rebellion have just stormed Cargill’s Head Office in London, named the worst company in the world for environmental destruction”. The office in the video it that of Carval, a subsidary which was sold by Cargill in a management buy-out last month…
    https://order-order.com/2019/10/10/protestors-storm-wrong-office/

    but Bloomberg still tries to spin it in a favourable way:

    11 Oct: Bloomberg: Activists Storm Office of U.K. Hedge Fund to Protest Cargill
    By Agnieszka de Sousa; With assistance by Richard Bravo
    CarVal’s lobby was overtaken with protesters on Thursday
    Cargill founded CarVal in 1987, but sold the firm last month
    A video (LINK) posted by Animal Rebellion on Twitter showed demonstrators streaming into the lobby of CarVal on Thursday. The activist group incorrectly claimed they were at Cargill’s head office in London, calling it “the worst company in the world for environmental destruction.”…

    Cargill’s main U.K. office is in Weybridge, Surrey, about 30 miles from London. It founded CarVal in 1987, but agreed to sell it in a management buyout last month. Cargill remains invested in the funds…

    “We went to the offices to protest about the huge amounts of money that goes into supporting animal agriculture,” said Alex Lockwood, a spokesman for Animal Rebellion, a group that wants the government to end livestock farming and transition to more sustainable plant-based foods. “Our food system is broken. We need to reinvent it.”…
    https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2019-10-10/activists-storm-office-of-u-k-hedge-fund-to-protest-cargill

    50

    • #
      Serp

      It’s becoming the norm for these dimwits to go to a wrong address and yet they still expect us to believe the conclusions from research they supposedly undertook on their beloved climate crisis are beyond argument.

      20

  • #
  • #
    Peter C

    Inappropriate Red Thumbs!

    There seems to be a tendency to give red thumbs to Gee aye without regard to what he has just written. I suppose that anyone can express disapproval of Gee aye anytime he makes a comment, just as a mark of dislike, but is it really justified?

    Up the page at this comment Gee aye takes PF to task and asks for an explanation.
    http://joannenova.com.au/2019/10/the-state-of-destruction/#comment-2202132

    Gee aye opened with a trolling type of question at #23, to see if he could elicit anything worth disparaging. PF replied with a link to a conference on Climate Models.

    Gee aye responded (on the next thread #24, forgetting to reply in context) with;

    that’s one where I get bogged down with presentation.
    What is it al about?
    OK I get the theme but I can’t get any information about assessing a way forward. There appears to be no information (possibly there is if I actually attended) to address your question.

    Then PF comes back and seems to hallucinate with a comment about individual issues about climate models (eg clouds) and a secret sauce which ties them together.

    Gee aye responds with:

    how do you get all that from the mish mash of that flyer?

    For that he gets 12 red thumbs! What for? I just gave him a green thumb for a very apt comment.

    50

    • #
      Kalm Keith

      I noticed that too but he had been too erratic.

      He was encouraging the Blog Clogger In Chief while knowing full well that the BCIC does not understand anything he writes.
      Criticising the bcic therefore deserved a red for subnormal crisy also known as hypocrisy.

      Sorry :-)

      60

    • #
      Michael262

      Peter C
      Because this is such a blinkered site, get rid of the puerile thumbs.

      08

  • #
    pat

    turned on ABC News Radio a short time ago, just in time to hear lengthy segment, featuring Qld Greens MP, Michael Berkman, criticising any attempt to pass laws to deal with XR protestors. mention was made of the protestors’ demand for 100% RE, yet Berkman went on to say the Govt needs to comply with the protestors reasonable demands. as usual, finding anything on News Radio website is near impossible; however, Berkman is everywhere in the MSM. none of the following has a complaint from the public:

    9 Oct: ABC: Palaszczuk moves to fast-track new laws to ban protesters using ‘dangerous devices’
    By state political reporter Josh Bavas and staff
    ‘Straight out of Joh’s playbook’
    Greens MP Michael Berkman said fast-tracking the committee process would not allow proper community consultation.
    “The committees are a bit of a band-aid solution for a single house of parliament here and for them to just push it through and minimise the time for the community to actually take issue with what are truly draconian laws,” he said.
    “The laws themselves are genuinely reminiscent of [former premier] Joh [Bjelke-Petersen] era laws to silence dissent, and now abridging normal parliamentary processes is just straight out of Joh’s playbook.
    “I think the answer to the disruption is good solid climate policy.”

    20 Aug: BrisbaneTimes: ‘This is the kind of draconian police state that Joh would be proud of’: Greens MP
    By Felicity Caldwell’
    Greens MP Michaek Berkman: “I think that safety concerns are effectively being used as a cover for laws that are aimed at silencing dissent, that are looking to shut down protesters who are making quite reasonable demands of government to actually act on climate change in a way that will protect our children’s future.”…

    AUDIO: 3min21sec: 11 Oct: ABC AM: MPs, lawyers angry at rushed Qld protest laws
    By Isobel Roe on AM
    Featured:
    Michael Berkman, Queensland Greens MP for Maiwar

    11 Oct: BrisbaneTimes: Anti-protest law would turn peaceful protesters into criminals: lawyers
    by Tony Moore
    Greens MP Michael Berkman said the changes echoed back to street march legislation during the Bjelke-Petersen years.
    “Joh will be spinning in his grave at the moment. Queensland Labor has seriously pinched all of his best moves,” Mr Berkman said…

    11 Oct: BrisbaneTimes: Climate activists blockade William Jolly Bridge on final day of protest
    by Lucy Stone
    Brisbane mother Amelia Robertson said she had attended the bridge protest out of concern for her children, aged 6 and 3.
    “I think a lot of parents are really, really frightened,” she said, saying there needed to be “significant action”…
    Robert Cooper said he had joined the protest because climate change was “the most important issue on the planet”.
    “The climate danger is going to wipe everything out,” he said…
    Meanwhile, as hearings begin for the Premier’s fast-tracked laws, which would stop the use of so-called “dangerous devices” by protesters, the Human Rights Law Centre, the Queensland Council for Civil Liberties and Greens MP Michael Berkman have expressed serious concerns about the proposed laws…

    Wikipedia: Michael Berkman
    He has been the Greens member for Maiwar…since 2017. Berkman was the first Greens member to be elected to the Legislative Assembly of Queensland…
    Berkman first attended the University of Queensland to commence a Bachelor of Science before moving to Griffith University, attending the Nathan campus, where he graduated in 2009 with a double degree, Bachelor of Science, Bachelor of Laws…
    He left legal practice to work in the Queensland Government’s office of climate change… until this group was made redundant following the election of the Newman Government in 2012…
    Berkman then accepted a position with the Environmental Defenders Office in Brisbane. In this role, he was involved in litigation with a particular specialisation in ground water in cases against Adani’s Carmichael Coal Mine, the Alpha Coal Mine and the New Acland Coal Mine Stage 3 Expansion…
    In November 2018, Berkman said schools in Maiwar, Berkman’s electorate, should let students skip lessons to attend a climate change rally. All school principals agreed, according to Mr. Berkman. The rally took place on 30 November. Over 400 students attended, demanding climate action.

    20

    • #
      pat

      Wikipedia entry mentioned Michael Berkman’s father worked in the media. just thought what’s the chance he works at ABC?

      from Michael Berkman’s maiden speech 22 March 2018: I was incredibly lucky to grow up with the love and support of a community of friends and family—in particular, my parents, Craig and Jan, who are here today…My dad works in TV. I can only just remember him working as the local TV newsreader at 10…

      Craig Berkman replaces Louie Eroglu as the ABC’s Middle East camera operator
      ABC Foreign Correspondents
      Craig Berkman has over 24 years experience in television, starting as a tape editor with Channel 10 Brisbane. His varied career includes stints as a news reporter, program producer, director, owner/operator of his own production company and, since 2001 editor/cameraman with the ABC in Brisbane…
      http://www.abc.net.au/profiles/content/s1865175.htm

      23 Jun: ABC: Dodging tear gas and pepper spray to report on Hong Kong protests against China’s extradition bill
      By China correspondent Bill Birtles
      PIC: Birtles covering the protests, filmed by cameraman Craig Berkman. (ABC News)
      Brant was due to fly to London to fill a gap in the Europe bureau, and, with Steve blocked from flying in, the ABC sent Brisbane-based cameraman Craig Berkman and reporter Nick Dole from Sydney for back up…
      https://www.abc.net.au/news/about/backstory/news-coverage/2019-06-23/china-correspondent-bill-birtles-on-covering-hong-kong-protests/11237912

      a number of references to ABC, but Berkman does not self-describe as being with ABC. re-tweets Michael Berkman:

      Twitter: Craig Berkman
      https://twitter.com/cberkman?lang=en

      does this relationship matter? I think so, in that Michael Berkman gets a lot of media coverage, not only on ABC, but in all the MSM, and it would be better if the ABC disclosed he has a father who has been with ABC for nearly 2 decades.

      AUDIO: 20 Aug: ABC PM: New powers to stop protestors halting Brisbane traffic
      By Alexandra Beech on PM
      Guest: Michael Berkman, Queensland Greens MP

      20 Aug: ABC: Protesters branded ‘extremist’ as Palaszczuk Government cracks down on road block tactics
      By Ashleigh Stevenson and staff
      Speaking outside Parliament, Greens MP Michael Berkman described the laws as “anti-democratic” and aimed at silencing peaceful protest.
      “Queensland Labor is apparently going to shocking lengths to silence dissent and to effectively run roughshod over the rights of peaceful protestors,” Mr Berkman said.
      “It leaves me asking are we here in Queensland now living under the ‘Joh Bjelke-Palaszczuk’ regime?
      “This is the kind of draconian police state that Joh would be proud of if they keep producing these sorts of laws.
      “The double standard here is absolutely staggering too. Big coal donors get a slap on the wrist and get a piddling fine when they break the law and yet the Government is designing brand new laws to criminalise and imprison peaceful protestors who are standing up for a safer climate future.”…

      quite the activist is Michael:

      28 Aug: Guardian: Brisbane city protest condemns Queensland government crackdown on climate activists
      by Ben Smee
      Authorities are using “bullshit” claims about activists in attempts to stop public protests in Queensland, the state’s lone Greens MP told a civil liberties rally in Brisbane on Wednesday morning.
      The protest march – about the right to protest – was held during morning peak-hour despite attempts by the LNP-led Brisbane City Council to deny the demonstration a permit, claiming it would cause traffic delays and “serious public disorder”.

      The group of about 150 people was on the roadway for about 15 minutes and traffic was flowing though the city soon afterwards. In its earlier attempts to stop the rally, the council had told the Brisbane magistrates court that commuter traffic impacts could last for more than two hours.
      The rally was organised largely in opposition to new laws, proposed by the Queensland Labor government, to ban “locking” devices used by climate activists and give police more power to search suspected protesters.

      Guardian Australia reported last week that claims used by the government to justify the new laws – that activists were using “booby traps” and intended to harm emergency services workers – were not supported by evidence and strongly disputed by protest groups.
      The state Greens MP Michael Berkman said those claims, made in parliament by the premier, Annastacia Palaszczuk, were “bullshit”.
      “Frankly, I think it’s disgusting that the premier and the lord mayor are using this language of ‘extremists’ and describing peaceful protests as ‘dangerous’,” Berkman said.

      The Greens councillor Jonathan Sri, who organised the protest, represented himself in court on Tuesday after the council attempted to deny authorisation.
      “I think the suggestion that the government should decide when people protest and what they should get to protest about is utterly ridiculous,” he said. “It needs to be condemned in the strongest possible terms.”…

      “The intervention by the council before the court was a political stunt by the new mayor of which [former premier Joh Bjelke-Petersen] would have been proud,” the QCLC president, Michael Cope, said…
      Berkman pointed to his mother, at the front of the crowd, who joined the protest on her way to bible study.
      “If you look at the group that is gathered here, it is a group of respectable and respectful people, concerned about a government cracking down on our right to protest,” he said.
      https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2019/aug/28/brisbane-protesters-condemn-government-crackdown-on-climate-activists

      20

      • #
        pat

        as with most Greens, economics is not Berkman’s strong point. Jackie Trad, Qld Deputy Premier and Treasurer – who knows a thing or two about property prices – provides a reality check!
        no wonder Berkman thinks 100% “renewables” is achievable…and desirable:

        28 Feb: BrisbaneTimes: Push for former ABC site at Toowong to be turned into a park
        By Felicity Caldwell
        The Queensland government should investigate buying the former ABC site at Toowong and turning it into a public park, Greens MP Michael Berkman says.
        It comes as the developers of the site, Sunland, are considering a new project for the riverside land after a resident’s challenge to a proposed “champagne flute” apartment towers development was upheld last year.
        Mr Berkman said the Toowong community was crying out for better public infrastructure.
        “Right now we have a unique opportunity to return this precious riverfront land to the people,” he said.
        “The former ABC site could be an idyllic riverfront park and a perfect landing point for a walking and cycling bridge connecting West End and Toowong.”

        Mr Berkman this week wrote to Treasurer Jackie Trad asking for the state government to investigate the opportunity to buy the land from Sunland and convert it into a public recreation space, to be designed by the community.
        However, Ms Trad said acquiring the prime riverfront site from a private owner would cost taxpayers “tens and tens of millions of dollars”…
        It is understood the 1.5 hectare site has been valued at $30 million…

        The ABC’s former Toowong headquarters on Coronation Drive was abandoned in December 2006 after a series of breast cancer cases were reported by female staff.
        No cause was identified, although the cancer cluster was investigated twice…
        https://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/politics/queensland/push-for-former-abc-site-at-toowong-to-be-turned-into-a-park-20190228-p510y3.html

        40

      • #
        Serp

        Nice piece of detective work pat unveiling the ABC connection to the Berkman berk.

        20

  • #
    tom0mason

    And now for the good news…

    The United Nations is running a deficit of $230 million, Secretary General Antonio Guterres said on Monday, and may run out of money by the end of October, reports France24.

    100

  • #
    David Wojick

    My latest: 500 skeptics rattle Europe’s climate cage

    https://www.cfact.org/2019/10/11/500-expert-skeptics-rattle-europes-climate-cage/

    The beginning:

    The climate change debate has never been as hot in Europe as it is in America, but that has now changed some. At least 500 experts, mostly Europeans, have signed a ” Declaration that there is no climate emergency” which has been delivered to the Secretary General of the United Nations.
    Fritz Vahrenholt, one of the signatories and a moderate German green, explains it this way:
    “The Dutch climate researcher and geophysicist Professor Guus Berkhout took the initiative and wrote to critics of climate models in various countries, including me. We then promoted the text among colleagues. It’s interesting to note that there are about 150 Italian researchers on the lists, about 100 Americans and 70 Dutch, but only 14 Germans. In Germany, the mainstream is particularly dominant – one no longer dares to go against the party line.” (I am one of the American signers.)

    Vahrenholt adds: “The climate debate has become so hysterical that it is driving politics into a cul-de-sac. But there is no climate emergency. If Greta Thunberg’s demands were to be implemented, development and prosperity would be at risk worldwide. Thunberg accuses politicians of killing people – but she ignores the successes of policy making: The global number of starving people has halved, life expectancy has doubled, child mortality has declined by 90%. These achievements have been significantly to do with improved energy supply, better heating and transportation and better food supply.”

    The Declaration project is led by a Dutch group called CLINTEL (https://clintel.nl/), which is short for Climate Intelligence. We certainly need more of that.

    There is more in the article.

    Great fun this.

    I have been informed that the number of signers is over 600 and growing. Here’s to Climate Intelligence. Their English language website is coming soon.

    Also check out my Climate Change Debate Education website, with over 350 skeptical science videos, organized by presenter. Then by length, ranging from one minute to over an hour per video. http://ccdedu.blogspot.com

    60

  • #
    Jenny Wilson

    “…A democracy will continue to exist up until the time that voters discover they can vote themselves payments from the public treasury. Then they will bankrupt it.” Attributed to Alexander Tyler, 18th century Scottish Historian.

    40

    • #
      Kalm Keith

      And most countries have been “governed” into that state of bankruptcy.

      They now survive from one election to the next through the modern economic miracles of quantitative easing and currency devaluation.

      30

  • #
    Kim

    People like to have full control over their lives. They like to feel safe. When they are confronted by events that they can’t control they have varying responses. Some people try to maintain some form of control. Others accept the reality and try to cope with it – to live with it. Warmism is a case in point. When the climate starts to change significantly more than normal that’s when people start to feel uncomfortable. Then they start to look for answers, to means of control, or to what is happening and how to deal with it. If people come forward pedling a means of control capitalising on fear by providing a solution to adjust the thermostat by adjusting the CO2 knob so that everything will be back to normal they might just fall for it. What’s actually needed is a good understanding of the reality of what’s happening so that we can be better prepared. Approaching it as an adventure, as a part of life, to be enjoyed and explored.

    Personally, where I’m living – SW Australia – each of the last 3 years has been significantly different. Each of those years was cooler and stormier than the previous. And we ended up being 1.9°C down on average. The rate of change changed significantly. This year, however, autumn, winter and spring have been fantastic – lovely temperatures, not much wind – much more stable. Cloud cover, generally, has increased and likewise humidity. Globally there have been increases in heat and cold in the Northern Hemisphere – temperatures going significantly above normal summer maximums and significantly below winter minimums and increased winter storm activity. And there has also been an increase in cloud cover and humidity. If SW Australia is any indicator this winter in the Northern Hemisphere might be milder.

    So people notice these changes. They are either manipulated by some very nasty politics and cowered into being very frightened and concerned. Or they start asking basic questions and seeking out information. When they do it’s a matter of being there and helping them through the science.

    When you get movements like Extinction Rebellion that are very much in their own little echo chamber bubble. Who mount global protests where they are a made for television event. Coordinated world wide. Where the local disruption is not a factor in their consideration. Their reality is not our reality. You can see their minds closed off. We are in the real world and we need to deal with it as it actually is, not as it is portrayed to be.

    What I suspect is that what we are seeing, over the last few years, is a climatic adjustment. That climatic adjustments happen every few decades. And that we have now entered into a new stable period. When people see, over the next few years, that the climate is now stable they will become less fearful and less able to be manipulated.

    Politically the whole scene is moving forward very fast. Warmism is but a small part of the picture. Mega corporations became woke. Woke became totalitarian. China bought out the mega corporations politically and imposed their totalitarianism on the woke. That changes things their end massively. And that will effect Warmism.

    10

Leave a Reply to Michael262 Cancel reply

  

  

  

You can use these HTML tags

<a href="" title=""> <abbr title=""> <acronym title=""> <b> <blockquote cite=""> <cite> <code> <del datetime=""> <em> <i> <q cite=""> <strike> <strong>