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EU Economists say carbon price needs to rise 10 – 20 fold to meet pledges

The EU Ministry for The Management of Nice Weather says that the artificial price of carbon credits must rise a magnitude or two if they are going to have any chance of meeting their “climate” target. In some senses they are right — the price of carbon would have to be very high to get people to shift energy sources, because the ones that produce carbon dioxide are so blissfully cheap. On the other hand, this assumes that the IPCC models are right and that economies would survivc this brutal management.
They don’t seem to mention what this will do to electricity prices.
By Susanna Twidale | LONDON Reuters

The cost of emitting carbon dioxide must rise to $50-$100 per tonne by 2030, much higher than the current price in Europe of less than $6, if countries are to meet climate pledges made under the Paris Agreement, economists said on Monday.

 Under the Paris deal, more than 190 countries pledged to keep planet-warming well below 2 degrees Celsius (3.6 degrees Fahrenheit) to stave off the worst effects of climate change.

The Commission on Carbon Prices, a group of 13 leading economists supported by the World Bank, said in their report that carbon dioxide prices would need to be $40-$80 per tonne by 2020, rising to $50-$100 per tonne the following decade.

Next up, The Ministry for Daylight Savings pledges to slow the rotation of the Earth.

 

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EU Economists say carbon price needs to rise 10 - 20 fold to meet pledges, 9.7 out of 10 based on 92 ratings

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156 comments to EU Economists say carbon price needs to rise 10 – 20 fold to meet pledges

  • #

    Vampira says: Give Blood.

    261

  • #
    Steve Keppel-Jones

    Are these economists the same ones who predicted nine out of the last two recessions? And completely missed the ones that actually occurred?

    421

    • #
      Oliver K. Manuel

      Yes, Steve, EU economist have perfect 20-20 hindsight of the past and pay pseudo-scientists handsomely to develop 97% consensus scientific models” of the future.

      How can we possibly question such careful organization?

      211

    • #
      Graham Richards

      No, these are the economists who didn’t foresee Trump & his decision to dump the the whole climate hoax. Would love to know exactly what this bullshit has cost the USA.

      Obviously without the American taxpayers they’re somewhat stuffed. Similar to NATO accounts, without USA there is no defence.

      Modern day slavery at work thanks to Socialists. No more!

      60

    • #
      Rereke Whakaaro

      Very droll comment, Steve. I tips my hat to you.

      80

      • #
        Steve Keppel-Jones

        Thanks Rereke! I wish I could say that I came up with that myself, but others have described economists this way before me :)

        10

    • #
      Steve Keppel-Jones

      The red thumb is obviously from an economist :)

      10

  • #
    Graeme No.3

    What if we did nothing about ‘carbon’ and global warming never comes?

    I find it hard to believe that the politicians who signed this agreement could have done so in good faith; surely they couldn’t be that stupid?
    On the other hand MT signed, as did Merkel and Hollande and Obama, perhaps they are that stupid.

    280

    • #
      Roy Hogue

      Stupid is as stupid does. And they seem to be getting away with this all over the world. So is it so stupid or is it a case of very good political calculus?

      121

    • #
      Rereke Whakaaro

      They are far from being stupid, Graeme. They must be quite bright to think up schemes like this.

      It is the folks who vote for them, for extraneous reasons, like the clothes they wear, and the promises they make (but never seem to keep), who are the stupid ones.

      Stupidity can be defined as repeatedly doing something that always fails, and expecting a different outcome.

      Voting for politicians is like entering a lottery where the only winning ticket is already held by the politician. (Except in Hilary’s case, of course).

      210

      • #
        Roy Hogue

        (Except in Hilary’s case, of course).

        Thankfully she held that ticket. I’d hate to think of the consequences if she had actually had a chance to win the November election. But the heartland of America had other ideas so Hillery ended up being elected president of California, not that we want her mind you but that’s the only state she had a chance in.

        171

        • #
          David Maddison

          Roy, it’s truly a miracle that Trump one because Clinton/Obama/Soros had rigged the election so heavily in their favour such as by the “motor voter” laws enabling illegals to vote etc..

          80

          • #
            David Maddison

            Won, not one…

            50

          • #
            Roy Hogue

            You can thank Kellyann Conway for that win. Her polling experience and insight allowed her to point the Trump campaign to exactly the right places to assure a win in the electoral college, the only vote that actually mattered. She did what Clinton didn’t even begin to do and that’s put the effort where it counted the most.

            You might say she showed Trump how to trump Clinton. ;-)

            And yes, I’ve been waiting for an opportunity to say that for quite a while. :-) or :-( depending on whether you like the pun or not.

            30

            • #
              Roy Hogue

              Sorry Peter, didn’t mean to step on your implication of the same thing… …well actually I did but it was too good to pass up. :-)

              20

    • #
      Glen Michel

      New World Order and Supranationalism and all that humming of John Lennon’s “Imagine”. Noble, maybe. There are other ways.

      70

      • #
        OriginalSteve

        NWO = global misery ( except if youre at the top of the pile, and like Stalin had a nice house in the country when you needed a break from starving disobedient serfs to death…)

        80

        • #
          Bobl

          As I always say to the global government enthusiasts, where do you go if you don’t like your one world government. IE if the unelected swill at your world government falls into the hands of a Hitler, or Stalin or Mussolini who is gonna come to your rescue if there is a single world government. That usually sets em thinking. At least if I get totally pissed with the Australian socialist, Commonwealth, oops I guess with socialists in charge it isn’t so much a Commonwealth anymore as a commonpoor. Anyway I can try to emigrate to Trumps USA.

          30

    • #
      toorightmate

      The CO2 horsesh*t has to stop.

      110

  • #
    Roy Hogue

    The EU Ministry for The Management of Nice Weather…

    I wish someone here had thought of that name. Ministry for The Management of Nice Weather has a nice ring to it, don’t you think? And we could have had one of those going here long ago and be spared all this drought, the heat and the flooding too.

    I wonder how they manage that though. But if raising taxes is all it takes there’s bound to be a hew and cry for the higher tax. After all, everyone complains about the weather so everyone should be willing to support our new Ministry for the Management of Nice Weather.

    And watch out for that flying pig while your poking around looking for how they do it. ;-)

    170

    • #
      Roy Hogue

      I hope Trump is serious about puling the plug on our part in the Paris nightmare.

      290

      • #
        Oliver K. Manuel

        President Trump is the ‘gator-infested swamp, but so far he appears to be a little smarter than the average ‘gator!

        100

    • #
      Rereke Whakaaro

      John Cleese has already done something similar …

      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iV2ViNJFZC8

      50

    • #
      Roy Hogue

      …while you’re poking around…

      Not, …while your poking around…

      Did it again. Need basic English lessons. Any good English teachers around?

      51

      • #
        Rereke Whakaaro

        Not in the USA, it would seem.

        70

        • #
          Roy Hogue

          Thanks a lot, RW. ;-)

          60

          • #
            gnome

            Remember, if you can’t be good, be careful.

            50

          • #
            sophocles

            … Rereke may be right, Roy. ;-)

            Maybe you should equip yourself with some good English as she is spoke and writ* references? From reading your posts, I don’t think you need an English teacher, but skimming some good references you might find useful.

            I armed myself with the Shorter Oxford Dictionary, Fowler’s Dictionary of English Usage and Gower’s Plain Words when I spent some years doing a lot of writing. They covered most of everything without an Americanism among them (except as specific examples).

            I don’t read them so much as skim or “graze.” Fowler’s is well thumbed and Roget’s Thesaurus (an earlier gift from a fellow crossword fanatic) is starting to shed pages. I’ll have to replace it soon.

            One thing I learnt early is to use someone else who has a good vocabulary and good grammar skills, who is willing to help and whom you trust, as your copy editor. He/she will find at least twice as many errors as you will.

            Software is good enough to find most of the spelling errors but probably won’t pick up the use of your when it should be you’re, but then you may have noticed that.

            I don’t make mistakes any more. I have use of an aged and really cranky Mac which makes them all for me. :-)

            * deliberate errors :-)

            20

            • #
              Roy Hogue

              sophocles,

              Spelling and grammar checkers are both congenital idiots from the start and no matter how they try to improve them something else gets worse along with whatever is improved. I did professional writing in everything from email to user online help and more formal correspondence with my boss for years and in the end I had to fall back on a final patient, thorough proof reading to finally weed out the mistakes.

              My real problem now is that I get in a hurry to get through something and that’s not hard to do since my mind can think it so much faster than my fingers can obey the orders to strike the keys. So I make all sorts of mistakes, even skip whole words. And really, that’s been my problem all the way through my life.

              I’ve been slowly working on a novel for some time and I have to put it aside every now and then and in a week or so I go back to it and read it all again to finally find the stuff that’s nonsensical or could be done better.

              A dictionary isn’t of much use because it takes too much time and my grip on the American variation of English is pretty good. But being in a hurry, even a small degree of “hurry” is the big killer.

              20

  • #
    John F. Hultquist

    Are these the same folks that have made millions by manipulating previous carbon credit schemes?
    Thought so.

    130

  • #
    Oliver K. Manuel

    This report on President Trump’s meeting with the Pope on Wednesday is very encouraging:

    http://greatamericandaily.com/popes-meeting-donald-trump-ended-shocking-fashion/

    50

    • #
      Angry

      Pope Watermelon 1st………..

      20

    • #
      Roy Hogue

      I hate to have to put it this way but in spite of his good education this pope has been down in the trenches actually helping people for a long time and he’s not a sophisticated man with the kind of street smarts the Roman Catholic Church needs as a leader. He comes across as more of a country bumpkin, a hick from the sticks whose lack of better experience for leadership is hurting his papacy.

      I don’t like to be this blunt but it’s what I think is the truth from watching what he does and says. At first I had a lot of hope that he would change some things but he hasn’t done that but continues to be that country bumpkin who believes the fallacy of appeal to authority.

      I will now be accused by someone of being anti Catholic, which I am not. I have always hoped that the Roman Catholic Church would become more of an influence for good in this country than it is. But it’s continually rejected by those who most need to hear a better message than the dogma about contraception and celibacy for priests that the Catholics hold to this day.

      10

  • #
    fretslider

    They are stark raving mad in Bruxelles.

    On paper we (UK) are leaving, but my gut instinct tells me we’re in the Hotel California.

    80

    • #
      OriginalSteve

      Twilight Zone more like…..

      I often wondered about why so many zombie movies, than figured it was away of the Establishment mocking the bulk of the population by basically labelling the bulk of the ignorant population as voting zombies….

      Makes sense when you think about it.

      30

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  • #
    Another Ian

    Similar thoughts

    “It Is All About The Money”

    https://realclimatescience.com/2017/05/it-is-all-about-the-money/

    80

    • #
      Rereke Whakaaro

      “Governments need to move quickly to prevent the bottom falling out of the carbon market”.

      Did I get that quotation correct? No matter, it appears plausible to me.

      100

      • #
        OriginalSteve

        Making sure the flow of funny money doesnt dry up…but that wouldnt do in a MSM paper, now would it?

        40

  • #
    AndyG55

    Great fuel for PM Trump. the very last thing he would want to do to the US economy.

    Another reason for him to junk the Paris non-agreement.

    121

    • #
      Will Janoschka

      “Another reason for him to junk the Paris non-agreement.”

      P45 has already junked the Paris non-agreement! His concern now, is determining the most advantageous where\when to inform his enemies! They are in a trap and know it!! :-)

      120

  • #
    Another Ian

    The same economists that got BA into this?

    http://www.smalldeadanimals.com/2017/05/an-outsourcer-a.html#comment-1106705

    and the rest of the thread

    50

    • #
      Rereke Whakaaro

      Oh yes indeed, we be putting of your datas into the cloudy thing, where it will be so secured, that not even you, will be finding it.

      Worth every rupees. Just ask my cousin.

      50

  • #
    Philip Mulholland

    The Ministry for Daylight Savings pledges to slow the rotation of the Earth.

    There’s a thought. It is a curious fact, established by two modeling studies, that slowing the rotation rate of the Earth will indeed change the climate by extending the latitudinal reach of the Hadley cell towards the poles.

    From the abstract of Del Genio, A.D. & R. J. Suozzo 1987: A Comparative Study of Rapidly and Slowly Rotating Dynamical Regimes in a Terrestrial General Circulation Model. Journal of the Atmospheric Sciences, Vol. 44 (6), 973-986.

    As rotation rate decreases, the energetics shifts from baroclinic to quasi-barotropic when the Rossby radius of deformation reaches planetary scale. The Hadley cell expands poleward and replaces eddies as the primary mode of large-scale heat transport. Associated with this is a poleward shift of the baroclinic zone and jet stream and a reduction of the equator-pole temperature contrast.

    From the abstract of Hunt, B.G. 1979: The Influence of the Earth’s Rotation Rate on the General Circulation of the Atmosphere. Journal of the Atmospheric Sciences, Vol. 36 (8), 1392-1408.

    The latitudinal extent of the Hadley cell and the associated region of high surface pressure, the location and intensity of the tropospheric jet, and the conservation requirements were found to be mutually and dynamically related for both fast and slow rotation rates.
    The slow rotation rate model had quasi-axisymmetric synoptic distributions, a small tropospheric latitudinal temperature gradient, a sufficiently warm polar region to question the existence of permanent ice cover, and a large arid zone in the subtropics.
    The fast rotation rate model exhibited irregular small-scale synoptic features, a marked tropospheric latitudinal temperature gradient, a very narrow arid zone in the tropics, and a very dry and cold high-latitude region.

    Now that’s real planetary climate change for you.

    40

    • #
      Roy Hogue

      Say what?

      Is it planetary climate change or is it doubletalk?

      An boss I worked for years ago had a buzzword calculator that could have said it as well — better maybe.

      60

      • #
        Rereke Whakaaro

        Are you now using it here, by any chance?

        30

        • #
          Peter C

          Were they ( the journal authors), using the buzzword generator?

          Yes
          I think so. It has been used before to write peer reviewed science.

          20

        • #
          Roy Hogue

          Are you now using it here, by any chance?

          I might as well for all the good original thinking is doing for me. ;-)

          10

      • #
        Unemployed Taxpayer

        Roy,
        Would that be An boss with a level 3 degree?

        The following is attributed to a university professor speaking about students on graduation day:-
        First level graduates stay in academia and become professors.
        Second level graduates leave to work in industry and become technicians.
        Third level graduates leave to become the managers of the technicians.

        Such is life.

        10

        • #
          Roy Hogue

          The meaning of, “An boss” is left as an exercise for the reader. Otherwise I’ll have the men with that big net coming after me again because I’ve no idea how to successfully alibi my way out of that. :-)

          However, I have encountered a couple of those level 3 degreed bosses, one was my CO while in the U.S. Army. I was a technician then too, actually teaching my technical specialty to others at that point. I never encountered another officer quite like him and thankfully so.

          10

          • #
            Unemployed Taxpayer

            Roy,
            You were lucky. Mine told me to my face that she would rather be doing my technical job than be a manager. So after working successfully for 40 years as a technician she fired me for incompetence (her own incompetence of course).
            Such is life.

            00

            • #
              Roy Hogue

              I was once fired for “incompetence” myself so I have a good understanding of what that means. I was never so glad to be walking out the door for the last time as I was that afternoon.

              That company hired me thinking I could magically undo years of mismanagement. They were so bad off that they had a list of customers who were not paying their invoices and when I actually called some of those customers (imagine that, actually trying to find out why) it was a really simple problem — they had been promised things they had never received in their systems. Every software system they sold was a custom job which is impossible to keep up with. Nothing was documented, absolutely nothing.

              To top it all off everything was written in their own version of Basic, an obsolete programming language 1,000 times over.

              I was relieved no end by being “laid off”.

              10

  • #
    Gerry, England

    Reuters claim that they are ‘leading economists’ – I think the correct term is ‘misleading economists’. Among them is Stern – he of the famed [SNIP] report that claimed it was economically necessary to fight global warming. The eminent Richard Tol shredded the Stern Report. A complete bunch of [SNIP] all singing from the IPCC songsheet.

    30

  • #
    el gordo

    The UK and US have the opportunity of pulling out of the Framework Convention, which means that in exactly one year they can put AGW behind them. Obviously this will require courage and a combative personality to bring it off, Donald has it but I’m not sure about PM May.

    In Australia 97% of the politicians are brain dead, but Cory Bernardi stands out as someone with courage, intelligence and the ability to confront the fake news media and get ridiculed into the bargain.

    Since coming out as an independent he has been whinging that the MSM ignore him, they won’t ignore Cory if we encourage him to say outlandish stuff on climate change. With an election a couple of years away we need him to be our political spokesman on global cooling, the ability to see the future correctly would have an enormous impact at the ballot box.

    150

    • #
      Graeme No.3

      el gordo:
      Perhaps he would do better attacking the Government’s electricity (for want of a better word) policy. As the debate goes from futile to farce the next lot of electricity bills are going to hit Mr. &. Mrs. Average early July. They will reflect the doubling of the base rate and mean a $150 – 200 increase per month. That will make people realise what AGW means.

      90

      • #
        el gordo

        The cost of electricity is nothing compared to saving the planet for our grandchildren. They have moved the goal posts so that the conversation is about energy and not climate science, Cory only has to tell the msm that global warming stopped a generation ago and now global cooling has begun.

        50

        • #
          Graham Richards

          Cost does not come into electricity equation. The price of coal has not increased & in any case it’s mined right here in Oz.

          The price is being pushed up by the “indirect carbon tax”,put in place by GOVERNMENT.

          They like the EU commissars will continue to increase the tax as they see fit regardless of CO2 emissions. This has nothing to do with emissions, it’s all to do with $$$ and the redistribution of our wealth to the 3rd world.

          The reason for the hatred levelled at Trump is that he is threatening all the results of their hoax that is global warming, climate change, Globalism, One World Government, one international currency etc. If Trump endorsed the UN climate hoax, mass immigration & international socialism all the hatred would disappear.

          The warmists love all the arguments against their hoax as it takes attention away from the real reasons….World Government/ Globalism.

          50

      • #
        el gordo

        By the way, Cory has just employed a Digital Communications Officer to view what we have to say.

        40

  • #
    Neville

    Of course none of the EU price on co2 will make a scrap of difference to weather, climate, SLR, extreme weather events, Arctic/Antarctic ice, polar bears etc at all.
    They are telling porkies to their people every time they open their mouths. See US govt’s EIA info here. Fair dinkum China, India and the developing countries must be laughing their heads off. Just this one EIA graph wrecks all their nonsense. And the 2016 EIA estimate for 2040 found that co2 emissions will increase by 34% compared to today. Yet some people still believe their mitigation garbage.

    70

  • #
    RobK

    Once the hooks are set, the screws are tightened. Then tightened some more so all the remaining wealth is equally divided and no one has the ability to exist beyond subsistence. Only then will humanity be at one with nature; forage like goats, breed like rabbits, plague like mice and locusts in cycles of death and destruction for all. They think they have thought this through but they haven’t.

    70

    • #
      OriginalSteve

      Problem is, they will be culled like rats…..

      The NWO arent entirely balanced , in fact many of them are stark raving psychopaths in suits.

      I keep harping on this, but this is why they want firearms banned from ownership – otherwise people can fight back.

      Historically, before a gummint can commit attrocities against its own population, the first thing it does is confiscate firearms. Stalin , Hitler, Pol Pot and Mao all did it, Oz has JWH to thank for the first phase complete.

      40

      • #
        clive

        “Little Johnny Howard”kicked this”Climate Change”off,with taking away our guns because of the Port Arthur massacre.He needed to take away our guns before he introduced his new legislation,in case”WE the People”objected.He also introduced new land clearing laws,all at the behest of the UN.Then he snuck in an ETS before he got the boot,which helped Julia Gillard to bring in a “Carbon Tax”which Abbott got rid of,but Turdbull snuck it back in,at the last sitting in December.Pity he didn’t bother asking,or telling us about it.

        00

  • #
    David Maddison

    Obviously existing renewables policies plus the mass importation of uneducated, unassimilable and violent people from the Third World aren’t destroying Europe fast enough so this is the latest attempt to accelerate that destruction.

    90

  • #
    RobK

    “They don’t seem to mention what this will do to electricity prices.”
    And that’s just the start of it. How about the price of transport, steel, concrete, glass plastic, manufacturing (even of wind turbines and solar panels). Ultimately the cost of governance, policing, law and order etc will be out of reach. An impact of biblical proportions.

    90

  • #
    Dennis

    Of course the “carbon price” must soar into space to replace the UN revenue if the US stops granting them money.

    80

  • #
    David Maddison

    “Nowadays, the only time a politician is telling the truth is when he calls another politician a liar.”

    – Alfred E. Neuman

    150

  • #
    Neville

    After decades of trying the EU’s S&W failure is obvious if you look at this IEA graph. All that pain and Geo+ S&W only make up just 2.6% of their TOTAL energy needs. And fossil fuels still make up 71.7%. What a joke and what a fra-d. The impact on their so called CAGW is sweet F- all.

    http://www.iea.org/stats/WebGraphs/EU284.pdf

    60

  • #
    TdeF

    High farce in Victoria. Having tripled the price of coal and driven Hazelwood into closure, Andrews is now missing $83million in revenue. Who would have thought that?

    Also having banned new exploration for gas, ministers are considering removing the licences from Exxon and others for delaying exploitation of their new Bass straight gas discovery. The reason? There is too much CO2 in the gas for Langford to process. So you are closed down for releasing CO2 and closed down for not releasing CO2. Meanwhile Victoria heads to a disastrous lack of energy, both coal and gas plus of course the income to go with the state taxes on these essential commodities.

    The people not considered are the people of Victoria Andrews was elected to serve. It is all about his Union and Green friends. Now he has announced a State funeral for a campaigner against the Catholic church, an issue also very popular with his friends. Without Andrews, Shorten would have been PM but it hardly matters, the policies would have been identical.

    100

    • #
      Rereke Whakaaro

      … he has announced a State funeral for a campaigner against the Catholic church …

      Somebody ought to take Mr Andrews to one side, and explain that Socialism is only successful if it plays by, and then slowly bends, the rules.

      Having a state funeral for an anti-catholic (who won’t care anyway), is a bit of a step too far, wouldn’t you say?

      110

      • #
        OriginalSteve

        Once people get drunk with power, they do rather forget their manners….such is the way of most oiks…

        That said, Socialists hate religion ( Stalin used churches in russia as granaries ), so they would be happy to see any religion taken down…..

        60

  • #
    Neville

    Here is the IEA(EU based) pie chart for TOTAL world energy. You’ll note that fossil fuels make up 81.1% and geo+ S&W only make up just 1.3%. And Lomborg states that the IEA informed him that S&W alone make up just 0.5% and this MAY increase to just 2.5% by 2040.
    This info proves that they are telling us porkies all the time. Yet 90% of pollies and journos seem to believe their mitigation rubbish. Why?

    http://www.iea.org/stats/WebGraphs/WORLD4.pdf

    80

    • #
      PeterPetrum

      Actually, Neville, I believe the figure for wind and sun as a percentage of the total energy mix is 0.45%, not 0.5%. If rounded to the nearest whole figure it is 0.0%. Lomborg has rounded it up, which means it would be 1.0% if rounded up to the nearest whole figure. We can not allow that. :)

      40

  • #
    John Watt

    The sharp edge where “science” meets economics. Should we give the EU our Ross Garnaut to tell them how it works? Better still get Evans and Nicol to tell them about the real world.

    80

  • #
    manalive

    2C would be really nice but I think they should aim for 3C just to be on the safe side.

    60

  • #
    Egor the One

    EU economists = Globull warmer racketeers !

    Who employs so called economists, besides big banks and bloated governments ?
    They are just more freeloaders and market manipulators scheming new ways to fleece the general populous.

    Little wonder they are all big advocates of gloBull Warming and great big tradeable carbon taxes !

    80

  • #
    PeterS

    OK then how much more will the global temperature drop by? 0.00001 instead of 0.0000001 C? Why would any country even listen to such a recommendation, which would be tantamount to committing economic suicide and most likely leading to a civil war as millions of people lose their jobs?

    60

  • #
    Neville

    Everyone should read and understand Lomborg’s PR study dissecting the impact of Paris COP 21. In fact there will be NO MEASURABLE impact at all by 2100.
    Even Dr Hansen the father of their so called CAGW admitted that COP 21 was just BS and fra-d. Don’t forget this will waste at least 100+ trillion $ by 2100 if the voters keep voting for these BS merchants.

    http://www.lomborg.com/press-release-research-reveals-negligible-impact-of-paris-climate-promises

    60

    • #
      el gordo

      Neville I browsed through and now I’m covered in lukewarmist words.

      Do you believe CO2 causes global warming?

      11

  • #

    No, no, no.

    Step back a for a minute and think about it.

    Notice they are saying that the cost for each tonne of CO2 emitted must need to rise by a factor of, well, whatever they want it to rise to, 10 to 20 times higher than it is now.

    They’re not saying for the plants to actually STOP emitting, just raising the price, and then raising the price, and then raising the price.

    Why don’t they just tell them to stop emitting altogether ….. you know, if the problem is as dire as they tell us it is. You know, shut them down altogether. Wouldn’t that stop the problem. The money would dry up though, wouldn’t it?

    Or conversely, the power plant emitting entities could just say that, well, we’re not going to pay, so we’ll just shut down now, which, umm, after all, is really what you want isn’t it.

    Then, as a by product of their closures , the source of money dries up, but hey, the objective has been achieved, lowering emissions.

    Hasn’t it?

    Or, is it really just about the money.

    Tony.

    170

    • #
      Egor the One

      It has always been, just about the money, just as these schemes, always are !

      If the planet really was in such proclaimed catastrophic danger, then why the stuff around with carbon taxes and new world disorders?

      To any reasonable mind, it has always been an obvious scam and politically manipulated .

      If it was true and pending, better to shut down everything and pick up the pieces than turn Earth into another Venus ….. but in reality, what have we ? A global plan to tax western advanced countries, with a small group of gloBull warmer Pontiffs to police our obedience!

      How conveniently Marxist.

      The Donald must be a Big Spanner in the Works, for these schemers !

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      • #
        OriginalSteve

        I disgaree – it is about the money, but its also about taking down our Western civilisation by undermining it from inside to appease the “goddess” Gaia…

        Its also known as Tr****n.

        Communists are very good at undermining democracies….so I suspect they are the useful idiots & frontline troops, marshalled by the Gaia devotees who hold the real power

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    • #
      PeterS

      The answer is obvious – Western governments are desperate for more revenues so such recommendations are making their mouths water. They might be stupid enough to accept the recommendations, and if they do they are more stupid than I thought as they will lead us directly to the biggest financial crisis since the Great Depression much sooner than otherwise.

      40

  • #
    pat

    read for all the details. Trump is far from alone.
    involves far more countries than the headline singles out, e.g.

    “It is clear that the east European countries are only thinking of cheap energy and nothing else,” one informed source said. “That applies to Poland, Hungary, the Czech Republic, all of them”

    29 May: ClimateChangeNews: EU climate laws undermined by Polish and Czech revolt, documents reveal
    As the world looks to the EU for leadership on climate, eastern states are diluting laws supposed to guide Europe toward its carbon reduction targets
    By Arthur Neslen in Brussels
    East European EU states are mounting a behind-the-scenes revolt against the Paris Agreement, blocking key measures needed to deliver the pledge that they signed up to 18 months ago…

    Under the climate accord, Europe promised to shave 40% off its emissions by 2030, mostly by revising existing climate laws on renewables, energy efficiency and its flagship Emissions Trading System (ETS).
    But documents seen by Climate Home show that Visegrad countries are trying to gut, block or water down all of these efforts, in a rearguard manoeuvre that mirrors president Donald Trump’s rollback of climate policy in Washington…

    The effect this could have on the EU’s overall emissions has raised concerns among those in Brussels who wish to see the EU maintain its leadership on climate.
    “We cannot allow backward-looking east EU states to destroy the EU’s credibility on the Paris agreement,” said Claude Turmes, the European parliament’s lead negotiator on climate governance.
    “A successful and ambitious energy transition is one of the few remaining positive stories for Europe. If we allow that to be drained by vested old interests from east Europe, our international credibility – and the last remaining trust of our citizens – will be smashed,” said Turmes.

    On Thursday and Friday this week, the EU leadership will meet with Chinese prime minister Li Keqiang. Climate change is a top agenda item at the meeting. A Sino-European coalition on climate action has been mooted as a possible bulwark against the reversal in the US…

    Existing loopholes in the EU’s energy efficiency law already cut the real 1.5% annual energy saving law to around 0.75%. But the Czech proposal, seen by Climate Home and largely accepted by the Maltese EU presidency, would slice off an estimated 0.4% in real savings by trimming the target itself and introducing loopholes…
    Documents released by Greenpeace Energydesk on Sunday show the UK government has also been lobbying to weaken the energy efficiency target, despite its intention to leave the EU…

    The EU’s preferred method of squeezing big emitters is carbon trading but here too, a Polish proposal taken up by the European parliament’s majority right wing blocks would drain the EU’s proposal of meaning…READ ALL
    http://www.climatechangenews.com/2017/05/29/eu-climate-targets-undermined-polish-czech-revolt-documents-reveal/

    40

    • #
      Curious George

      These obnoxious laggards just won’t cooperate in the Glorious Redistribution of Wealth.

      50

    • #
      Peter C

      We cannot allow backward-looking east EU states to destroy the EU’s credibility on the Paris agreement,” said Claude Turmes, the European parliament’s lead negotiator on climate governance.
      “A successful and ambitious energy transition is one of the few remaining positive stories for Europe. If we allow that to be drained by vested old interests from east Europe, our international credibility – and the last remaining trust of our citizens – will be smashed,” said Turmes

      Turmes almost gets it. Except that the ambitious energy transition cannot be successful. Therefore international credibility and the last remaining trust of the citizens must be smashed. It is inevitable, but much longer will it take?

      50

  • #
    pat

    even “believers” at Redd-Monitor agree they aren’t working. check all the charts, etc:

    29 May: Redd-Monitor: Chris Lang: Carbon markets aren’t working. Time to stop burning fossil fuels
    http://www.redd-monitor.org/2017/05/29/carbon-markets-arent-working-time-to-stop-burning-fossil-fuels/

    30 May: Herald Sun: Terry McCrann: Donald Trump can show us the light on energy
    LET’S hope the reports are true: that President Trump will follow through on his campaign promise to take the US out of the so-called Paris Climate Agreement.
    In a broad general sense it would be a rare statement of sanity in this space; that at least as long as he remains President the US will stop drinking the Climate Change Kool-Aid.
    More narrowly, a US withdrawal is critical to getting some policy sanity in Australia. Ideally, we would follow; but as there’s zero chance of that under the current clueless prime minister, hopefully it would at least force some reality back into the discussion about energy and electricity in particular…

    Our CO2 emissions are swamped by China’s; and the “Fake Paris Agreement to supposedly take action on climate change” allows China to increase its emissions out to 2030 by an amount that would swamp 100 per cent of our emissions many times over…
    Indeed, the “Agreement” allows everyone to increase their emissions, as the so-called promised cuts are only on a ‘best intentions’ basis. Only idiots like us will actually try to deliver…
    http://www.heraldsun.com.au/business/terry-mccrann/donald-trump-can-show-us-the-light-on-energy/news-story/0ada67878d7e9f790c435915ee23f5a0

    10

  • #
    pat

    comment in moderation beginning with: 29 May: Redd-Monitor: Chris Lang: Carbon markets aren’t working. Time to stop burning fossil fuels

    ***truly disgraceful that Butler gets away with this doublespeak, with a little help from The Guardian:

    29 May: Guardian: Katharine Murphy: Josh Frydenberg rules out carbon trading in electricity sector
    Energy minister says Turnbull government will not support emissions intensity scheme regardless of Finkel review
    Some stakeholders say the chief scientist may also make some recommendations about forward-looking regulations to phase out coal-fired electricity generation.

    Labor’s climate change spokesman, Mark Butler, on Monday criticised Frydenberg for ruling out a trading scheme supported by everyone from BHP to the Australian Energy Markets Commission.
    ***“This would all be funny if it wasn’t the case that Australians are facing an energy crisis, wholesale electricity prices have doubled under their watch, the gas market is in crisis, emissions are once again growing and there is a private sector investment strike in new generation,” Butler said Monday.
    “It would be funny but instead it’s a disgrace.”
    https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2017/may/29/josh-frydenberg-rules-out-carbon-trading-in-electricity-sector

    20

  • #
    MarkMcD

    Of course carbon prices have to rise – with the USA not funding them anymore the cabal running the Church of AGW scam need to get their ill-gotten gains from SOMEWHERE. :D

    I think we can expect a determined push (putsch?) by the climate criminals to make the People pay their tribute.

    60

  • #
    Geoffrey Williams

    Cost of carbon emmissions to rise by x20 times to save the planet!? And at what cost our electricity bills? It’s all a grab for money and control. When will people wake up to the lies from the EU? We say the planet is fine as it is – we don’t want you to save it thanks very much!
    GeoffW

    70

  • #
    Alfred (Melbourne)

    All of this is so irrelevant. The EU is in the process of disintegrating. The UK is leaving. Greece is being bled dry. The banking systems of Portugal, Spain and Italy are on a precipice. The question on everyone’s mind is who is next to leave? Which of those three countries will crater first?

    I am sure it is just a matter of time before others start refusing surplus and unwanted wind electricity from Germany – that process is starting. The Poles will never shut down their coal mines to please Brussels. The French still have not closed down the nuclear power station just across the border from Freiburg – despite promises.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fessenheim_Nuclear_Power_Plant

    The British put their nuclear plants on the coast of Kent – downwind from London and upwind from Paris. That is the way Europe always has been – and always will be.

    60

  • #
    pat

    2 pages: 30 May: Nikkei: Christiana Figueres: Private sector can help unlock Asia’s decarbonized future
    Companies are exploiting new technologies to reap benefits of going green
    With China, Japan and India leading the way, the Group of 20 leading industrialized countries is now decarbonizing at 2.8% a year. This is the highest rate since 2000 and more than double the 1.3% average of the last 15 years. However, to keep the global average temperature rise this century below 2 C, as stipulated under the 2016 United Nations-led Paris Agreement on climate change, an annual reduction in global carbon intensity of 6.5% is now required…

    The private sector holds the key to this low-carbon future, with the Paris deal effectively acting as a global business plan for decarbonization. The accord was built on an understanding of the economic advantages of reducing the risk and impact of climate change…

    For example, China issued $36.9 billion worth of green bonds in 2016, meaning it now dominates the global market for climate-friendly infrastructure investment. With active government support, China’s green bond market is successfully mobilizing private capital to finance projects that help reduce carbon emissions and mitigate the effects of climate change…

    The world is moving irrevocably toward a low-carbon global economy, creating a vast global marketplace for green buildings, clean energy and smart cities that is now waiting to be unlocked. A combination of technology advances, market demand and regulatory change make this the ideal time for business leaders to step up and take advantage of the opportunities inherent in a greener future.
    (Christiana Figueres is vice chair of the Global Covenant of Mayors and convenor of Mission2020, a climate change initiative)
    http://asia.nikkei.com/Viewpoints/Christiana-Figueres/Private-sector-can-help-unlock-Asia-s-decarbonized-future

    check out About Advisory Board, The Team & homepage stories:

    ClimateBonds.net: Partners
    (from top of homepage) Climate Bonds Initiative is an international, investor-focused not-for-profit.
    ***We’re the only organisation working solely on mobilising the $100 trillion bond market for climate change solutions.
    CHECK OUT THE PARTNERS
    includes Thomson Reuters, Bloomberg, HSBC, NAB, Blackrock, Allianz, etc.
    from About: The Team
    Sean Kidney, CEO and Co-founder
    He also acts as chair of the Climate Bond Standards Board (members represent $34 trillion of assets under management) and convenor of the Green Infrastructure Investment Coalition (GIIC).
    He serves as a member of the European Commission’s High Level Expert Group on Sustainable Finance and is co-Chair of the India Green Bonds Council. He has provided advice the People’s Bank of China on how to grow green bonds in China; has been a member of the Commonwealth Expert Group on Climate Finance; and has been a consultant on green bonds to the United Nations Secretary General…
    *** He was previously a marketing advisor to a number of the largest Australian pension funds, a owner of social marketing, web site development and current affairs publishing firms.
    https://www.climatebonds.net/about-us/partners

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    • #
      Peter C

      Christiania Figueres is one of the greatest villains in the whole piece.

      If there is any justice she should spend the rest of her life in jail.

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    • #
      clive

      Christiana Figueres, executive secretary of U.N.’s Framework Convention on Climate Change, admitted that the goal of environmental activists is not to save the world from ecological calamity but to destroy capitalism.

      “This is the first time in the history of mankind that we are setting ourselves the task of intentionally, within a defined period of time, to change the economic development model that has been reigning for at least 150 years, since the Industrial Revolution,” she said.

      “This is probably the most difficult task we have ever given ourselves, which is to intentionally transform the economic development model for the first time in human history.”

      00

  • #
    pat

    subscription required for both, not sure where the first story goes from the bit i have excerpted:

    29 May: WSJ: Cliff Forrest: The ‘Business Case’ for Paris Is Bunk
    The climate accord is a boon—yet pulling out would be unfair?
    As President Trump weighs whether to withdraw from the Paris Agreement on climate change, some have tried to present a “business case” for why the U.S. should stay in. An economic windfall would come with the early and aggressive investment in alternative energy that the accord mandates, or so the argument goes. The Paris Agreement’s backers have told a very incomplete story and reached the wrong conclusion.
    The economic merits of the Paris Agreement take on a different air when more fully considered…
    https://www.wsj.com/articles/the-business-case-for-paris-is-bunk-1496095937

    25 May: WSJ: Trump Faces the Fury of a Scorned Ruling Class
    The ‘threat’ that has elites quaking is his serious attempt to curb federal power and cut spending.
    By George Melloan
    A lobbyist friend who visited Capitol Hill recently came away horrified. “I now am ready to believe that the partisanship is so unhinged that it’s a threat to the Republic,” she writes in an email.
    This Washington hysteria comes at a time of full employment, booming stocks, relative peace and technological marvels like an electronic robot named Alexa who fetches and plays for you songs of your choice. What’s the fuss about?

    We all know the answer: Donald Trump. The Washington body politic has been invaded by an alien presence and, true to the laws of nature, that body is feverishly trying to expel it. These particular laws of nature demand rejection of anything that threatens the livelihoods and prestige of the permanent governing class.

    The “threat” that has Washington quaking is the first serious effort in a long time to curb federal regulatory power, wasteful spending, and a propensity to run up mountainous budget deficits and debt. That’s presumably what the voters wanted when they elected Donald Trump. Democrats—accurately regarded as the party of government—seem to fear that Mr. Trump might actually, against all odds, pull it off…
    https://www.wsj.com/articles/trump-faces-the-fury-of-a-scorned-ruling-class-1495753759

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  • #
    pat

    READ ALL:

    29 May: Breitbart: James Delingpole: Here is Proof That President Trump Cannot Trust Gary ‘Wormtongue’ Cohn on Paris Agreement
    “If he were standing here, he would tell you that he feels much more knowledgable on the topic today,” said Trump’s economic advisor Gary Cohn, referring to the president’s position on climate change and the Paris agreement.
    Well if that’s the case, it’s certainly no thanks to Cohn – whose advice on these matters is about as sound, reliable and unbiased as that provided by Grima Wormtongue – slippery henchman of the evil wizard Saruman – to King Theoden in Lord of the Rings…

    Cohn wants Trump to keep the U.S. in the Paris climate agreement. Of course, he does. As an ex-Goldman Sachs man Cohn is a fully paid up member of the $1.5 trillion-a-year Climate Industrial Complex. It was Goldman Sachs – along with Enron – which pioneered the carbon trading schemes that helped enrich enviro-troughers like Al Gore. If the global warming Ponzi scheme ever collapses – and it will – then many of Cohn’s friends and former clients stand to lose millions in crony-capitalist “investments” currently propped up by Obama-era regulation which Cohn and his cronies are desperate to keep in place.

    This also explains Cohn’s extraordinary recent attack on the coal industry…READ ALL
    http://www.breitbart.com/big-government/2017/05/29/delingpole-here-is-proof-that-president-trump-cannot-trust-gary-wormtongue-cohn-on-paris-agreement/

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  • #
    pat

    am no fan of Kushner’s, & this piece only suggests renegotiation, but will post it anyway:

    30 May: Daily Mail: Geoff Earle: Under fire for his Russia contacts (GARBAGE), Jared is souring on Paris climate deal
    Now he is pushing for changes in Paris climate pact – after European leaders issued climate statement without U.S. concurrence
    With the fate U.S. participation in a global climate pact in the final days of review, Donald Trump’s son-in-law Jared Kushner is pushing for ‘changes’ to the agreement.

    Kushner as recently as last month argued for keeping the U.S. in the deal…
    ‘His basic position is that the standards need to be changed and the question is can you stay in the Paris agreement and can you stay in the Paris agreement with the changes?’ an administration official familiar with the situation told DailyMail.com
    ‘He felt that the standards are too high so the question becomes can you stay in and get a better deal?’ the official said…

    Axios reported Sunday that Trump he has privately told several people of his decision to pull out of the climate agreement, including EPA Administrator Scott Pruitt.
    The outlet spoke with three sources who confirmed the information, though Trump has been known to change his mind at the last minute…
    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4553056/Jared-souring-Paris-climate-deal.html

    for what it’s worth:

    29 May: Fox News: Jared Kushner didn’t suggest Russian communications channel in meeting, source says
    http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2017/05/29/jared-kushner-didnt-suggest-russian-communications-channel-in-meeting-source-says.html

    20

  • #
    pat

    read all:

    29 May: EurActiv: Who is still pursuing the Paris climate goals in Europe?
    by Femke de Jong, Carbon Market Watch
    Two months ago we released a ranking (LINK) showing Sweden, Germany and France as the only European countries on the right track to deliver on the Paris Agreement…

    Unfortunately, several countries still want to rig the EU’s main climate law with loopholes so they can continue business-as-usual. These countries ranging from France and Ireland to Hungary and Poland, are pushing to introduce different accounting tricks to sidestep climate action in the sectors covered by the ESR.
    At the other end of the spectrum, countries such as Germany and Sweden want the EU to respect its international commitments and lead the way to a decarbonised society.
    A coalition of the willing is needed in Europe as much as anywhere else, now more than ever…

    A divided European Parliament
    Negotiations in the European Parliament are also proving difficult due to a split between progressives and conservatives, and across national lines.
    Political groups such as the liberals, social democrats and greens want to make this climate law an effective instrument to limit global warming. This is encouraging…

    The conservative groups, led by UK member Ian Duncan and Spanish Pilar Ayuso, instead advocate for changes to the law that put the implementation of the global climate deal at risk. Under the pretext of ‘rewarding early compliance’, they want to allow countries to use carbon credits from the pre-2020 period when they were still allowed to increase their emissions. This could mean that the EU’s 2030 target is met on paper, but in practice emissions reductions would fall short of meeting the promised 30%…

    This Tuesday (30 May), members of the European Parliament’s environment committee will have to choose between moving us closer towards a climate-friendly Europe, or dragging their feet at a critical time when Europe’s climate efforts need to be drastically scaled up. Which one will it be?
    https://www.euractiv.com/section/emissions-trading-scheme/opinion/who-is-still-pursuing-the-paris-climate-goals-in-europe/

    10

  • #
    Robber

    Fear not, Malcolm is going to save us.

    Malcolm Turnbull and the state premiers will receive the final report of a review into the electricity sector next week.
    The prime minister told a coalition partyroom meeting on Tuesday the government would not be responding to the report, compiled by chief scientist Dr Alan Finkel, with an emissions trading scheme or an emissions intensity scheme for the electricity sector.
    Many mistakes had been made on energy policy in the past but his government would “solve the problem” of rising prices while keeping a lid on carbon emissions, Mr Turnbull said.

    Here is your test Malcolm: Wholesale electricity prices in Victoria have escalated from 2.7 cents/KWhr in 2011/12 to 10.8 cents/KWhr in April/May 2017. And on top of that, electricity retailers are forced to buy “renewables” at an additional price of 8.2 cents, currently making up 15% of supply, but mandated to rise to 23.5% by 2020.

    What is your solution Malcolm?

    Here is mine: Abolish the RET. Simple really. But I doubt that our Chief Scientist will be so brave.

    70

    • #
      Dennis

      Former Prime Minister John Howard commented a week ago that the RET should never have been raised above the original trial 2 per cent.

      60

      • #
        Mark M

        Says Howard …

        The evil that men do lives after them, and in Mr Howard’s case that is a possible future in which Australia does not have a cement industry, a steel industry, oil refining, a multitude of other industries and, most importantly, a synthetic liquid fuels industry.

        That is the part of the Howard legacy that many of us have toiled mightily to avoid. That legacy is now with us, and we stare into the abyss of a continually shrinking economy.

        The last dark deed of the Howard Government was the passage of the National Greenhouse and Energy Reporting Act in October 2007. That act is the auditing basis of the carbon tax.

        http://newsweekly.com.au/article.php?id=5257

        40

    • #
      Rick Will

      There is no problem abondoning the RET according to BlackRock Investments:
      http://www.afr.com/business/mining/coal/blackrock-says-coal-is-dead-as-it-eyes-renewable-power-splurge-20170524-gwbuu6

      Australia is “denying gravity” by continuing to encourage coal investments because renewable energy is now competing “head to head” with coal on cost, the global head of BlackRock’s infrastructure investment group, Jim Barry, says.

      There is a simple proof for this view – just stop the RET and all other subsidies.

      50

  • #
    RoHa

    Does this mean I can make money by breathing out?

    70

  • #
    James Murphy

    I’m not sure about this Ministry for the management of Nice Weather. It needs another administrative body with appropriate funding levels to determine what is ‘nice weather’, and then to deploy it, starting with a target of 50% ‘nice weather’ by 2025.

    If it is just about managing weather in Nice, then it needs funding to expand.

    Either way, just send the money to me, and I’ll take care of it.

    70

  • #
    Neville

    More good news about co2 emissions. Africa has become much greener over the last 20 years.

    http://www.thegwpf.com/reality-check-africa-has-become-much-greener-in-the-last-20-years/

    And parts of our planet are now cooling, thanks to increased greening of the biosphere. Who knows, perhaps increased co2 may help to cool things?

    http://www.thegwpf.com/gaia-at-work-global-greening-cools-parts-of-the-earth/

    20

  • #
    TdeF

    How can you not enjoy Andrew Bolt’s clear thinking..

    Andrew Bolt
    REEF GONE, MOVE ON
    That’s that, then. If there really is no hope now of saving the reef, then warmists shouldn’t write a single further story about what we must do to protect it.

    It’s gone, move on.

    If I read a single further story about the reef needing protection I will know that those responsible for that headline were either lying or very, very mistaken.

    So no need for the RET, Windmills, Solar panels, massive subsidies, carbon taxes, closing coal power stations or keeping it in the ground. Apart from sea level rise and the coral reef, what exactly is the problem for Australia?

    Especially economists who call for more carbon taxes can also move on. Start fixing the massive budget deficit, caused substantially by crippling the place to save the Barrier Reef.

    80

    • #
      Philip Mulholland

      Sea level rise is good news for corals.
      No biologist, not even the great Charles Darwin, ever found a coral that could thrive out of water.
      Corals die when the sea level falls.

      40

  • #
    el gordo

    ‘Frydenberg told reporters in Canberra on Tuesday carbon capture and storage was “proven technology that should be made to work in Australia.”

    ‘He said the amendment being proposed by the government would only apply to carbon capture and storage, not to other forms of coal technology.

    ‘But the minister said if anyone proposed a high efficiency, low emission (HELE) coal fired power plant, with carbon capture and storage, “that would absolutely be a project that could be funded.”

    Guardian

    30

    • #
      el gordo

      ‘New coal-fired power stations using ‘clean coal’ technology could be funded by the Clean Energy Finance Corporation, under plans announced by the Federal Government to change the legislation governing the body.’

      SMH

      30

    • #

      My bolding here:

      ‘Frydenberg told reporters in Canberra on Tuesday carbon capture and storage was “proven technology that should be made to work in Australia.”

      Huh!

      Proven technology.

      Tell ‘im ‘e’s dreamin!

      This from Joanne’s site, barely two years ago. Wait ’til you see these numbers on Carbon Capture and Storage

      Tony.

      70

      • #
        el gordo

        Josh wants to see a HELE next to the Adani mine, it maybe a political sleight of hand but he ain’t dreaming.

        20

      • #
        Robber

        Yet another disappointing Liberal minister, Josh Frydenberg aiming to be politically correct, but lacking any strategic understanding. Meanwhile PM Turnbull thinks he can stop the escalation in electricity prices. See my comment at #39 above.
        Why would a country like Australia remove one major competitive advantage – low cost electricity generated from coal – and allow wholesale electricity prices in Victoria to escalate from 2.7 cents/KWhr in 2011/12 to 10.8 cents/KWhr in April/May 2017? And on top of that, force electricity retailers to buy “renewables” at an additional price of 8.2 cents, currently making up 15% of supply, but mandated to rise to 23.5% by 2020?

        And then ask the ACCC and the Chief Scientist to investigate why electricity has become unaffordable for many industries and consumers.

        All to make zero difference to our climate. Madness.

        90

        • #
          David Maddison

          It’s not madness by the perpetrators – they know what they’re doing, it’s a deliberate plot to destroy our economy, and all Western economies.

          71

  • #
    David Maddison

    Please don’t forget to read and promote this paper.

    Even print copies and leave it on trains, buses, doctor’s waiting rooms etc..

    I think printed copies of anything are far more effective than just emailing links.

    http://principia-scientific.org/publications/Role_of_CO2-EaE.pdf

    10

  • #
    TedM

    “EU Economists say carbon price needs to rise 10 – 20 fold to meet pledges”

    Why?

    40

  • #
    el gordo

    Warwick Hughes takes a swipe at media bias over Adani.

    http://www.warwickhughes.com/blog/?p=5136

    30

    • #
      el gordo

      ‘Indian conglomerate Adani has struck a royalties deal for its proposed $16.5bn mine with the Queensland government.’

      Oz

      40

  • #
    ROM

    I guess that none of those 13 leading economists are going to get cremated when they permanently leaving this planet to its Carbon stricken future.

    That proposed / demanded carbon tax hike of theirs will surely make it near impossible for their heirs to meet the costs of a cremation of their remains plus the costs of all those CO2 taxes arising from the emmitted CO2 from the cremation ovens plus the carbon tax on the their left over carbonised bits.

    The “dust to dust” bit might be Ok in a drop in burial but with their hiked up Carbon tax proposal that taxable and carbonised “ashes to ashes” part of even a common burial could be somewhat expensive for their estate to have to pay if their proposal is adopted.

    But then economists can never see what the real world might actually dish up as noted by one of the commenters above that economists predicted seven of the last two recessions and then missed the ones that did happen.

    40

  • #
    el gordo

    LONDON, May 29 (Reuters) – ‘Steelmakers in Europe have written to EU leaders urging them not to burden the industry with extra carbon emissions costs they say would make them uncompetitive against foreign rivals and raise the risk of job losses and plant closures.

    ‘Environmentalists say the law should not be watered down.’

    70

  • #
    graphicconception

    Allow me to make a correction:

    The artificial price of carbon credits must rise a magnitude or two if they are going to have any chance of meeting their …
    … commitments to fund NATO following the reminder from POTUS last week that not many of them pay the 2% of GDP that they said they would.

    40

  • #
    pat

    29 May: Greentech: Jason Deign: Global Clean Energy Funding: The Good News and the Bad News
    Investor appetite for cleantech remains strong following the Paris climate agreement. But experts at the World Bank’s Innovate4Climate conference in Barcelona, Spain said that funding levels are still not high enough to reach global emissions targets…

    For example, AXA Investment Managers (AXA IM) last month announced that it will pull cash out of companies that get more than half of their revenues from coal-related activities…
    The EIB makes sure at least 25 percent of its annual lending goes toward projects related to climate change mitigation and adaptation. In 2016, this lending rose to 26 percent, totaling €19 billion (USD $21 billion)…

    The bank also has a policy of not lending to energy projects that will emit in excess of 550 grams of carbon-dioxide equivalent per kilowatt-hour, which restricts it from supporting coal- or lignite-fired plant proposals unless the plants are equipped with carbon capture and storage.
    So far, no such projects have been put forward, Taylor said…
    The EIB (European Investment Bank) expects to lend $100 billion to climate-related initiatives over the next five years, “which is consistent with the number for last year,” said Taylor.

    He said the bank would also remain committed to green bonds, which it pioneered 10 years ago. So far, the EIB remains the world’s largest provider of the instruments, having issued €16 billion ($18 billion) in Climate Awareness Bonds across 11 currencies…
    A World Bank study (LINK) released during Innovate4Climate showed the number of carbon-pricing initiatives worldwide has nearly doubled in the last five years…

    At an Innovate4Climate side event organized by the Global Green Growth Institute, Jiwoo Choi, the Green Climate Fund’s private-sector facility acting head, said $250 million in junior equity investments by the fund had helped attract around $30 billion for 200 projects globally.
    However, financing still needs to increase by a lot.

    Assaad Razzouk, CEO of Sindicatum Sustainable Resources Group, worried that global lenders aren’t on a path to achieving the trillion-dollar-level annual investments needed to meet the Paris Agreement goals.
    “The gap to how you get to the trillion [dollars] is the critical issue,” he said. “If you don’t get to the trillion in time, we’re not going to build a global clean economy. I’m talking about how we get ahold of another $640 billion per year. It’s a huge number.”…

    Razzouk’s concerns echoed those of Dr. Stephan Singer, senior adviser for global energy policies at Climate Action Network International, who this month wrote in the London Financial Times that change was not happening fast enough to curtail climate change…
    “We have to be very careful not to give the private sector the idea that we’re addicted to aid,” he warned.
    “We’re not going to plug the $640 billion gap without the participation of the stock markets. The stock markets, local and global, are simply not participating,” said Razzaq.
    https://www.greentechmedia.com/articles/read/clean-energy-funding-the-good-news-and-the-bad-news

    PDF: 20 pages: World Bank Group: Carbon Pricing Watch 2017
    AN ADVANCE BRIEF FROM THE “STATE AND TRENDS OF CARBON PRICING 2017 ” REPORT, TO BE RELEASED LATE 2017
    The observed carbon prices span a wide range, from less than US$1 up to US$126/tCO2e, as shown in Figure 3…
    http://www.climateactionprogramme.org/images/uploads/documents/Carbon_Pricing_Watch.pdf

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    cedarhill

    It’s always been about money, extortion, cronies and payoffs. In the USA, we call it taxes.

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    pat

    subscription required. would like someone who can access it to post further Happer quotes:

    30 May: UK Telegraph: Nick Allen: Donald Trump’s potential science adviser believes CO2 is ‘good’ and US should withdraw from Paris climate deal
    Professor William Happer, a Princeton physicist, told The Telegraph in an interview: “I hope he will. Our friends in Europe wanted it so everybody had to sign up but it’s a complete waste.

    “There are diverging opinions in the Trump administration, what to do about climate change in particular. I hope he will withdraw.
    “It (the Paris agreement) is not going to hurt the environmentalists, it’s going to hurt people in Asia and Africa and I think it’s profoundly immoral. What people there need is electricity you can afford. Prosperity, what’s wrong with that? This is an example of human folly.”…
    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/05/30/donald-trumps-potential-science-adviser-believes-co2-good-us/

    Tele piece posted online an hour ago, following posted 44 minutes ago!

    30 May: Foreign Policy: Jenna McLaughlin: How the White House Lost Its Brains
    Failing to appoint scientific advisors to the president is putting national security as risk.
    During Barack Obama’s time in the White House, members of the president’s science council included Google executive ***Eric Schmidt and academic experts in disciplines ranging from physics to biology…

    “People feel like they’re drifting,” William Happer, a physicist at Princeton University and Trump’s own rumored pick to be science advisor, told FP in a phone interview. “They don’t know what they’re supposed to be doing. They would like to get some leadership soon.”…
    Happer says this problem goes beyond Trump and his team. Officials in Washington don’t have a real taste for hard science, and only hire scientists because they know they must. “It’s like eating your spinach before your ice cream,” he said…

    Trump’s failure to appoint scientists could have a detrimental impact on national security, says John Holdren, former director of the Office of Science and Technology Policy…
    According to Holdren, the Office of Science and Technology Policy and the president’s science council are “joined at the hip” with the National Security Council, and regularly meet with the intelligence community to discuss future and current threats to the nation…
    Holdren’s team finished the study into bio threats late in President Obama’s term, and didn’t get the chance to oversee its influence in policy. “My hope would be that those reports which are on topics which are not partisan in nature … will survive into the Trump administration,” Holdren said. “But again, so many key positions are vacant, so it’s hard to tell at this point.”…

    Perhaps the area in most need of scientific advice is climate change, an issue the Trump White House has publicly dismissed. Scott Pruitt, President’s Trump’s Environmental Protection Agency head, is regarded as a close ally of the fossil fuel industry. Department of Energy Chief Rick Perry has said global warming hasn’t been proven. Even CIA Director Mike Pompeo has vocally denounced climate change research.
    Happer, who might end up being Trump’s right hand science man, has himself been vilified as a prominent “climate denier.”
    He claims that term is ridiculous. “Who denies climate?” he said. “Climate has been with us forever.”
    In 1993, William Happer was pushed out of his job as director of the Department of Energy’s Office of Science, allegedly for angering Al Gore over questioning climate change.
    Happer said he would, if back in government, advocate for studying climate change. “If it’s this important, why haven’t we had a public review of it? We have that all the time in defense programs,” he said. “If you’re going to put in a new fighter jet, you have a red team that tries to find something wrong with it.”

    In the meantime, however, Happer says he has no idea if he’ll be offered the job, though he confirms he’d accept it. “I do think they do need to start to get people in those positions and to listen to their advice.”
    http://foreignpolicy.com/2017/05/30/how-the-white-house-lost-its-brains/

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    A magnitude is a multiple of ten. Raising a number by one magnitude means multiplying it by 10. Raising it be 2 magnitudes means multiplying it by 100. They are not proposing to raise the carbon prices “by a magnitude or two” (times 10 to 100) but by 10 to 20.

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    pat

    Bloomberg & Reuters pieces posted 1hr ago.

    30 May: Bloomberg: Trump Blasts Germany Again as Merkel Talks Up India Ties
    by Patrick Donahue and Arne Delfs
    Modi ***suggested that India will adhere to the Paris climate accords, while Trump makes up his mind…
    ***Modi signaled that India will move forward on its climate agenda even if the U.S. exits the Paris agreement, saying politicians have “absolutely no right” to put in jeopardy the environment for future generations.

    30 May: Reuters: India would stick to climate accord even if U.S. pulled out – source
    Indian Prime Minister Narendra Modi told German Chancellor Angela Merkel in talks in Berlin on Tuesday that India would stay in the Paris climate accord even if the United States pulled out, a delegation source said.
    ***The official spoke on condition of anonymity.
    (Reporting by Andreas Rinke; Writing by Michael Nienaber; Editing by Paul Carrel)

    *** it’s doubtful Modi made any remarks directly linking a Trump paris exit with India abiding by the Agreement. there’s no evidence of that at all.

    posted 30 minutes ago:

    30 May: DNA India: Spoiling environment for posterity is “crime”: Modi
    It would be a “crime” to spoil the environment for future generations, Prime Minister Narendra Modi said today and underlined the need to protect biodiversity, as the Trump administration mulls to overturn the US’ position on the 2015 Paris climate accord.
    Modi’s remarks came during a joint press interaction with German Chancellor Angela Merkel after the two leaders agreed to continue cooperation towards the common aim of developing climate-friendly, efficient and sustainable solutions for India’s expanding energy needs and other areas of sustainable development.
    “We do not have the right to spoil the environment for future generations … that is, morally speaking, a crime on our part,” he said.

    ***In a joint statement, both leaders expressed great appreciation for the successful cooperation on fostering renewable energies in India.
    Building on existing formats of cooperation, the leaders reiterated their support to the Indo-German Climate and Renewables Alliance as an overarching alliance between India and Germany with the objective to give recognition to ongoing collaboration of various stakeholders on energy and climate change as well as to enhance cooperation and synergies in these fields.
    They underlined the importance of the Indo-German Energy Forum (IGEF) in contributing to the further development of the Indian energy sector…

    “Prime Minister Modi and Chancellor Merkel reaffirmed the importance of the Indo-German Environment Forum (IGEnvF) in contributing to further cooperation on environmental issues, including biodiversity and climate change. They agreed to hold the next meeting of the Indo-German Environmental Forum in 2017 in New Delhi,” said a statement.
    Both sides expressed their commitment to work towards the goals expressed in the New Urban Agenda, agreed at the Habitat III conference in 2016.
    Until 2022 Germany intends to provide financial and technical assistance in the range of 1 billion euros.

    The two leaders welcomed the meetings of the Working Groups for collaboration in water management, waste Management , circular economy, and climate change held in 2016 and took note of the scheduled meetings for 2017 including the meeting of the proposed Working Group on Biodiversity.
    Recognising the need to promote an ecosystem that creates entrepreneurial economy, Modi and Merkel agreed to promote cooperation in the field of Startups by facilitating interaction with various stakeholders in the Startups ecosystem…

    Lauding Germany’s assistance in developmental projects over the years, Modi highlighted the successful Indo-German Solar Partnership founded in 2015 and the cooperation on Green Energy Corridors established in 2013…
    (This article has not been edited by DNA’s editorial team and is auto-generated from an agency feed.)
    http://www.dnaindia.com/india/report-spoiling-environment-for-posterity-is-crime-modi-2455794

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    Greg Cavanagh

    Today’s word is Simony

    Answer

    Simony is the sin of attempting to buy or sell an office of the Church or a sacrament. The word “simony” does indeed come from the name Simon, but not from the name Simon Peter. It comes from the name of Simon the magician, who had heard the preaching of Philip in Samaria and had accepted baptism.

    In Acts 8:9-24 we find the account of this Simon, who offered money to Peter in exchange for the power to lay hands on people to confer the Holy Spirit. From Peter came an immediate and sharp rebuke. Ever since, the notion of buying an office of the Church or of buying grace has been referred to as simony.

    https://simple.wikipedia.org/wiki/Simony#/media/File:DvinfernoPopeNicholasIII_m.jpg

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    Even worse than wasting $4T by failing to recognize that CO2 has no significant effect on climate might be failing to realize what actually does. The still-rising water vapor is rising about three times as fast as expected from water temperature increase alone and has increased about 8% since 1960. This increases the risk of catastrophe from precipitation related flooding.

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    Salome

    Wow! The joy over at this site is palpable. Let’s hope this wedging in of a little commonsense can be the beginning of greater things. Of course, others don’t see it as we do. Over at Facebook, this is what is being promoted as the answer to all the ‘deniers’: https://www.bloomberg.com/graphics/2015-whats-warming-the-world/

    Now, I’m no scientist, but even I know that nobody is trying to put forward any individual cause for such changes in overall global temperature as occur, apart from the AGW crowd. But how can you even begin to argue with people who put up such vapid drivel?

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