JoNova

A science presenter, writer, speaker & former TV host; author of The Skeptic's Handbook (over 200,000 copies distributed & available in 15 languages).


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Climate Change may destroy sunsets — Southern Cross Uni teaches children

Apparently CO2 can absorb sunsets:

The Climate Change Challenge will be held at the Lismore campus from 10am where students from ages 8 to 15 can take part in the ‘photo voice’ competition, where they can use photography to have a voice on the issue and win prizes.

‘Some students take photos of beautiful things such as sunsets or waterways and then write about how it could be lost or destroyed because of climate change. Some take photos of land that has been bulldozed; they are very aware about how plants repair from damage, produce oxygen, absorb CO2 and so on.

Challenge to Grownups: take a photo of anything and then write about how Southern Cross Uni is destroying our children’s chance to understand it.

The agitprop is barely disguised as science:  Climate Change and Me — That’s our tax dollars ruining their education. Is there anyone is Lismore who can go along tomorrow and join in?

Thanks to Tim Blair for The Sun sets on SunsetsHe comments that Southern Cross University, “is launching some kind of Greens-breeding program in NSW schools”

h/t Andrew.

 

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137 comments to Climate Change may destroy sunsets — Southern Cross Uni teaches children

  • #
    TdeF

    So the Greens are now teaching Henny Penny or Chicken Little as fact? Have they no shame?

    332

    • #
      Yonniestone

      The sc@m is falling the sc@m is falling!

      Cried the alarmist running around with it’s funds cut off.

      333

      • #
        sophocles

        Yonniestone wrote:

        The sc@m is falling the sc@m is falling!

        no no no no: “the sc@m is failing, the sc@m is failing! :-)

        Cried the alarmist running around with it’s funds cut off.

        Ooh, the unkindest cut of all … :-(

        132

        • #
          OriginalSteve

          Reminds me of some of the scandanavian folk stories to scare kids – the trolls will get you!!

          CAGW isnt about science, its about fear and control , about manipulation and power.

          Its the worst of humanity in a multi-act play….

          I will enjoy the days when the proponents say “I was just following orders…..”

          70

      • #
        toorightmate

        Isn’t it great that they are teaching the kiddies about the ATMOSFEAR?

        70

    • #
      Albert

      What are they smoking ???

      81

    • #
      Ted O'Brien.

      They have a plan. They have a plan. To rule the world. And to prevent everyone else from ruling the world.

      Like all tyrants before them.

      60

  • #
    Yonniestone

    Apparently CO2 can absorb sunsets, and,

    - Critical thinking.
    - Self worth.
    - Individualism.
    - Freedom of expression.
    - Unicorn methane.

    302

  • #

    Southern Cross Uni is not that far from Byron Bay Or Nimbin. Lismore itself is rife with greenies. Parents in the area there have probably already indoctrinated their kids.

    272

    • #
      Glen Michel

      Too right! Infested with ratbags and airheads.I know this area well And SCU is well positioned to indoctrinate others with its soft core agenda.Courses in crystal gazing,witchcraft and advanced masturbation techniques abound.Totally clueless and a succubus(or incubus) on the polity.

      92

    • #
      Allen Ford

      Don’t be too hard on SCU. It did, after all, harbour the late Prof. David M McConchie, a geochemist and inventor of Bauxsol™, neutralised red mud left over from bauxite refining and effective in treating all kinds of environmental nastiness, such as heavy metal contamination and acid residues.

      Pity that they seem to have wandered off the true path of scientific excellence.

      82

  • #

    Pyongyang-on-Wilsons.

    122

  • #

    Nice sunset this evening up here at 19°S. The best ones are enhanced by volcanoes going off pop to the north and north-west.

    142

    • #
      Owen Morgan

      Yes, aren’t Turner’s sunsets thought to have been triggered by Tambora?

      131

    • #
      Manfred

      The beauty of the sunset lies in the eye of the beholder. Indeed, many sunsets through the lens of a photochemical smog are utterly magnificent, for example, “The LA smog does make for beautiful sunsets!” or even here at oxymoronic termed, ‘Green Science’ , “Does smog make for beautiful sunsets?”

      Over the entire globe, the post-Krakatoa eruption (Aug 1883) sunsets were magnificent to behold, and commented upon extensively by the extant World poets of the day and (I didn’t realise) by one eminent Jesuit at my alma mater, Gerard Manley Hopkins SJ in published articles he authored, ironically in the journal Nature. In these, he beautifully describes the incredible sunsets, here, here and here, also linked through the excellent article at The Krakatoa Sunsets . These were written at a time when he was at Stonyhurst College in Lancashire, where he was suffering from bouts of depresssion. The Lancashire weather is often frightful, grey with 10/10 overcast and endlessly wet. The gray stonewalls and bleak landscape may also add to the misery of the cold weather so it is unsurprising that a poet and observer of Hopkins stature and dispositional fragility would find the spectacular and beautiful sunsets enlivening and worthy of detailed comment.

      One can unquestonably identify some of the many reasons why Southern Cross University struggles pitifully at the bottom end of The Times Higher Education Australian World University Rankings 2016? It appears to know almost nothing of history, literature, science and beauty, all unsurprising when one considers the goals of Cultural Marxism peddled by the institutionalisable fanatics at laughably named places of ‘education’.

      100

  • #
    john karajas

    That there CO2, it be moighty powerful, aarh!

    192

    • #
      PeterS

      Indeed. It appears the teachers are instructing their students to stop worshiping the Sun god and instead now worship the CO2 god.

      182

      • #
        Yonniestone

        Interesting comparison, a sun god would usually represent life, light, power, as would the CO2 god having similar traits with all things being normal.

        However eco-fanatics have chosen to demonise CO2 to be feared and revered to the point of becoming a satanic worshipping cult.

        122

      • #
        Albert

        They just need to follow their ancestors and sacrifice virgins

        70

        • #
          OriginalSteve

          Well yes when you think about it, the main reason the aztecs used to cut out peoples hearts in sacrifice wasnt about religion, it was about putting fear in the population they might be next….

          Nothing has chnaged…look at what Hitler was able to achieve when things were bad….

          The CAGW lot are no better, and remember the 10:10 snuff movies…..?

          60

        • #
          Eugene S. Conlin

          Albert (October 12, 2016 at 1:32 pm), the Greens being progressives, should they not be sacrificing vegans?

          90

          • #

            Sacrificin’ vegans? Heh )…

            ‘Naychur is dangerous and don’t
            you forgit it. That speckled thrush
            that chortles so sweetly has
            just devoured a worm. You yrself
            might escape harm if you
            remind yourself, often, that
            ‘Nay – chur – is – dangerous!’

            Dangerous. as the tiger, burning
            bright, that even in sleep is
            likely to overlay its cubs, or
            dangerous, as voracious fire,
            devouring all before it, spitting
            out the charred remains, oh so
            contemptuously, as it leaps
            upon a forest glade, gullies
            and all that lie therein,
            animal and vegetable, nothing
            vegan about fire … or
            in contrast, there’s ice, some say
            it’s worse than fire. Remember
            poor Otzi, Bronze Age traveller,
            snap-frozen in the Tyrol
            in a sudden storm, swallowed
            by one of those hungry
            glaciers that engulf whole
            villages, churches where
            praying congregations seek
            insurance from the elements
            to no avail. Nay-chur has its way.’

            50

  • #
    pat

    folks, this is dynamite. no point posting excerpts because it’s explosive from start to finish. a must-read:

    7 Oct: Financial Post: Terence Corcoran: Boondoggle: How Ontario’s pursuit of renewable energy broke the province’s electricity system
    http://business.financialpost.com/fp-comment/boondoggle-how-ontarios-pursuit-of-renewable-energy-broke-the-provinces-electricity-system?__lsa=fa70-5cd6

    323

  • #
    PeterS

    Will the students take photos of coal fired power stations spewing out those large plumes of steam and misinterpreting them as clouds of CO2 “pollution”? If they do will the teachers correct them or will they agree with the students’ interpretation and lie?

    272

    • #
      John Silver

      And you just misinterpreted condensation as steam.
      Steam is invisible, just like CO2.
      Trees are steam fountains and over the rainforest you sometimes can see condensation.

      66

      • #

        Horse hockey. People have been calling the visible mist “steam” since the days of James Watt. My 4 inch thick “Webster’s Third New International Dictionary” includes, under “steam”: “2b: the mist formed by the condensation on cooling of water: visible vapor”.

        Go and sin no more.

        151

        • #
          Rereke Whakaaro

          The New Shorter Oxford Dictionary devotes two whole columns to the word, “steam”. Who would have guessed?

          1. A vapour or cloud of minute liquid droplets given out by as substance when heated or burned; an oderous hot vapour or gas. 2. A vapour or exhalation produced by the body or by a crowd of people, as hot breath or perspiration; the infectious effuvium of a disease. 3. The vapour into which water is converted when heated, which in air forms a white cloud or mist of minute drops of liquid water; spec. in technical use, the invisible gaseous form of water, formed by boiling, from which this vapour condenses on cooling. Also loosely, the vapour rising from any liquid when heated. … 5. Chem. Matter in the gaseous state; an impalpable emanation. 6 The gas produced by boiling water that is used to generate mechanical power by the force of its expansion in a confined space …

          I rather like the term, “infectious effuvium of a disease”. I must find an opportunity to drop that into polite conversation … hmm.

          121

        • #
          John Silver

          People are wrong, they must be corrected with a stout whisk.

          31

      • #
        PeterS

        John you may be technically and scientifically right but I was using the colloquial term. For example, when you press the “steam” button on an iron it pushes out what we all see as visible “steam”. So let’s not be too pedantic. You know what I meant so move on.

        91

        • #
          OriginalSteve

          A friend used to work in the merchant navy – they way they used to find steam leaks was to walk along with a bit of cardboard on the end of a pole – when the cardboard burst into flames, they knew they had found the steam leak……

          20

    • #
      Albert

      They have altered pure science, co2 is now like steam before ‘last light’

      40

  • #
    Radical Rodent

    Will this madness ever end? For the sake of our children and grandchildren, I do hope so, but fear we may already be too late, especially when you have government ministers saying that our days of energy on demand are numbered. We can only take solace in the hope that a few blackouts like SA enjoyed might be enough to wake the sheeple up – especially if it interferes with their bread-and-circuses programmes of Strictly Get Me Out of X-Brother on Ice Talent.

    203

  • #

    Man made climate change has destroyed science; why not sunsets?

    I agree with the alarmists for a change – I will never be able to enjoy another sunset knowing that I live on a planetary insane asylum with 7 billion inmates, and the craziest inmates (with PHD’s and honorary political epithets to prove it) are in charge of the asylum, ‘managing’ the C02 concentration of the atmosphere!

    The walls of this planetary insane asylum (sky) are also painted a nice calming blue color, which gets screwed up during sunsets with an angry red, so perhaps sunsets are not so great after all … time to pop another pill and watch the ABC for a calm lecture on how the ‘managers’ are saving the planet … {rocking too-and-fro on arm chair humming to self calmly the 4-Corners theme tune}.

    161

  • #
    Andrew McRae

    photos of beautiful things such as sunsets … and then write about how it could be lost or destroyed because of climate change.

    You may laugh.

    But go on. Try.

    Try to devise a superficially plausible sounding mechanism by which this could happen.
    You might surprise yourself.

    Here’s a hint, just fill in the blanks:
    Increasing ___ will increase global ___________ which will increase ___________ which must increase ________ which decreases the amount of ____ lofted into the __________ which will reduce the amount of ___ that appears in sunsets, which makes them less beautiful.

    81

  • #
    Stonyground

    ‘Strictly Come Dancing’ is the title of a UK pro celebrity ballroom dancing show. In other countries it is known as ‘Dancing With The Stars’. This is because the original title is quite UK specific. It is a combination of the Title of a long running TV show about ballroom dancing called ‘Come Dancing’ and the Title of an Australian movie called ‘Strictly Ballroom’ which was very successful in the UK.

    OT I know, but I thought that Radical Rodent’s comment could do with a little bit of background info.

    81

    • #
      Radical Rodent

      Most Some A few Not all of the denizens of England’s more extreme southern counties are that dim, Stonyground; most some a few one or two will have already worked that out for themselves, you know.

      Hehehe…

      71

      • #
        Stonyground

        Yes, I was thinking of people from other parts of the world. Also, this being an Australian blog, I thought that it might not be well known that Strictly Ballroom was such a hit in the UK.

        10

  • #
    Ruairi

    Many youngsters of immature years,
    Being green and still wet ’round the ears,
    Are on climate deluded,
    With lost sunsets included,
    To believe all the false warmist fears.

    271

    • #
      Phil R

      As a regular lurker and (very)part-time commenter,I love your Limericks, and note that at times they are elevated to the main post. Do you (or Jo) have, or have thought about a collection? I think, and particularly relevant to this post, a children’s collection of GW limericks would be awesome.

      90

      • #
        wert

        Some word art for you only

        sorry i feel eel when confronted by a lamerick
        i want away just leave my name nick
        lame sick poem word i pick
        weapon of mass distraction
        leap on, try miss its action

        00

    • #

      Many youngsters of immature years,
      Being green and still wet ’round the ears,

      OK, darn it … I have to come clean. I have to let something off my chest which has been eating me up for at least the last decade now, and I feel like I am in the company of people who might provide me with some well needed pity. I also want to make clear that this is NOT sarcasm (and I mean that … no, really, this claim of non-sarcasm is not itself sarcasm).

      CONFESSION: After I turned 18, and was first registered to vote in Aussie elections, the first vote I cast was for the Greens.

      That was NOT easy to say, and I feel ashamed and embarrassed. As a man in my mid thirties, I can fall back on the excuse that my high school education in Perth, W.A., was heavily speckled with ‘green’ propaganda, and more than one ‘social studies’ teacher that was a not-so-closeted communist. So when I left high school, although being a quite logical and mathematically minded person, I truly believed in man-made global warming; the ‘experts’ are the teachers, right?

      It took me another 8 years to realize that this was fraudulent propaganda, but nothing seems to wash away the guilt and shame that comes with knowing that my first ever democratic ballot was cast for the Greens. I was young, and dumb – that is, in respect of politics and the way the world really works.

      99% of 18 year old’s are so naive and incapable of logical thought on politics (as per the UNESCO indoctrination camp known as a ‘school’ is meant to generate), that perhaps the voting age should be raised to 21 years of age … and I mean that. What harm would it do to democracy if a larger portion of the electorate was composed of people who had paid taxes and lived in the REAL WORLD for at least a few years – not being contained in a propaganda induced bubble – before being allowed to make decisions on the national management.

      No wonder the Greens and the Labor Party have in the past advocated the dropping of the voting age to 16 year old’s … they know that impressionable and naive minds are far more likely to lean left towards emotionalized issues and agendas devoid of more rational and logical analysis.

      So, please forgive me fellow JoNova-ites, for I knew not what I was doing, and I have since repented of this horrible sin – the sin of being naive, and on the voting register before having paid any real quantity of tax, and before reading about the history of public policy development, especially in science. Rest in peace Galileo!

      Hey, Joanne, may I suggest that you start a page called CONFESSIONS, where those of us who had formerly held to scientific falsities, could testify about how we escaped the clutches of politicized thought on science and scientism? … it might make a good future research resource for any student or professional daring to analyze the effect of CAGW on human society.

      [This might go better in a weekend thread. I'll let Jo decide.] AZ
      [Fits with the "Academia" thread -- not a bad idea to explore... I have been meaning to do one on a related theme for years - Jo]

      20

      • #
        Rod Stuart

        EWO
        I have no doubt there are many in Jo’s house that will forgive you.
        As the saying goes, “Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me”.
        Back in late 1967 and early 1968 I was about to receive an undergraduate degree in Engineering.
        There was an election in April of that year, and the Liberal Party had recently selected a charismatic leader. (Albeit a closet Communist and ardent admirer of Mao. He had ridden a motorcycle through the streets of Montreal during WWII wearing a German army helmet, showing his disdain for the Dominion and all it stood for)
        Pierre Elliott Trudeau visited campus, and I was completely sucked in by his nonsense. This was much to the chagrin of my family, who were dyed in the wool Conservatives even to the point of being on a familiar basis with figures such as John George Diefenbaker, Davie Fulton, George Hees, and Ellen Fairclough.
        I can’t actually remember whether I voted Liberal or not, but if it was it was the last time. When one is young one knows everything there is to know, and it easy for the naive to be impressed with Charisma and BS.
        Life is all about learning, and mistakes are acceptable so long as one learns the lesson provided by them.

        20

      • #
        Rod Stuart

        The perils of democracy
        Nineteenth Century authors, such as John Stuart Mill warned that democracy is only functional if the population is allowed to discuss and debate freely. There is no better way to cement your ideas than to defend them in an argument. Conversely, one can discover on listening to the other point of view hw wrong one is.
        The Romans realised the pitfalls encountered earlier by the Greeks and created a Republic.
        So too did the founding fathers of the USA understand the dangers of a democracy and created a Republic.
        But the long march through the institutions by Gramsci’s Cultural Marxism has been so effective in modifying the culture that Western Civilisation is learning the same lesson the Greeks learned so long ago. Convinced of the benefits of public education, we fell right into the trap of indoctrination rather than education. A dumbed down population taught to FEEL rather than THINK is part of this cultural shift. Social media has played a huge role in the decline, by eliminating the need for a well presented argument well thought through. DEmocracy, like anything else in life, only works when people put some effort into it.

        20

        • #

          >>> the long march through the institutions by Gramsci’s Cultural Marxism

          You hit the nail right on the head. I would bet $100 that the majority of western youths have no idea what the true difference between a Republic and a Democracy is.

          Magna Carta started the movement from Absolutism to the Lowest Common Denominator, and now those who would covet an Oligarchy have realized that whipping up the Lowest Common Denominator, by keeping them stupid, ill informed, and hyper-sensitive to emotions and identity politics, is a great way to take advantage of an entire nation whilst touting the single word ‘Democracy’ as if it is a great moral achievement in its own right inviolate from criticism.

          At least here in Australia I don’t feel so alone knowing that Canada is just as screwed and in need of a positive cultural revolution (hopefully not a Maoist one). Please forgive my cynicism, but when subsumed in a country completely obsessed with the subsidized sports industrial complex, I can’t help but feel like PANEM ET CIRCENSES should be the true motto of ‘democratic’ Australia (which, like Canada, never declared a Republic in the first place).

          10

  • #
    TdeF

    Of course they could teach that CO2 and water makes plants and carbonhydrates through photosynthesis. Dead plants are eaten by insects like termites and become CO2 again or they are buried and after millions of years become oil and coal. Oil and coal burn and make CO2 again. This is the cycle of life, the carbon cycle. Green itself is a long chain hydrocarbon called chlorophyll.

    You could teach that carbon is a black and black is evil and carbon dioxide is the most evil industrial waste and pollutes the earth and creates all storms, droughts and floods. People who deny these facts known as ‘The Science’ are themselves evil and need to be punished with taxes. Only the holy scientists of the IPCC tell the truth and they alone can read ‘The Science’. All others are in the pay of Big Carbon. Windmills bring salvation. All praise the holy windmills.

    142

    • #
      Radical Rodent

      Or, they could also teach that all life forms on this planet are carbon-based, and this carbon is slowly being sequestered into rock form, from which it may never be released, thus making carbon an ever more precious element, and one that should be liberated as fast as possible, wherever possible, so that life may continue on this planet! Somehow, I don’t think that meme will ever catch on, though. However, in the long run, that is the fate of planet Earth – a barren planet, with all its carbon-dependent life made extinct by the loss of the availability of carbon. Our valiant efforts may only delay that inexorable process by a few millennia.

      132

      • #
        TdeF

        Sequestered into rock form? Carbonates? Limestone? I have read this but if that was to happen, it would have happened long ago and not recently or suddenly. Despite the insitence of the Greens, we have not changed the planet. In fact almost nothing has changed and in the 20th century, Europe in particular has greened spectacularly as the forests are no longer chopped down for firewood, ships and furniture and housing.

        Also there is plenty of carbon, the fourth most common element in the galaxy. Due to the process in which elements are manufactured, the lighter ones are more prevalent, by far the most common being Hydrogen.
        Carbon (0.5%) is half as common as Oxygen (1%). Helium is 25% but as it is monotonic and a noble gas, it does not react and escapes our planet. It is likely the amount of free CO2 is roughly constant at well under 1% or we would not have survived. What varies century to century is the amount in our air, determined by outgassing from the 50x reserve which is in the oceans and this in turn determined by surface temperature only using Henry’s law. So the sun determines the amount of CO2. That’s no surprise.

        So yes all life is made from Carbon. At less than 0.02% CO2 it is possible that life on earth would cease to exist. We came very close to a barren planet but it is a balanced feedback. This was in Confessions of a Greenpeace dropout by ecologist Dr. Patrick Moore, a founder of Greenpeace who complains that it was taken over by communists, lawyers and businessmen who just love the billions in donations.

        The 0.028% was possibly because the plants like people are greedy. The current greening of the planet is dramatic, especially in Australia where the trillions of tons of CO2 have been captured by our green deserts, so windmills are useless. No surprise there. At least the Swedes include the biosphere in their calculations.

        However this simple science of CO2 is not taught. What is taught is fear and loathing of factories, agriculture, transport and workers and cities. Nimbin in reputation seems to be a culture of rich city refugees more concerned with dropping out and off the radar, spaced out. All made possible by taxes on hard working miners and farmers and factory workers. A rerun of H.G.Wells The Time Machine and the Nimbin residents are the totally indulged Eloi. Of course the children are taught this is the way life should be and to rail against the Morlocks who make is possible.

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        • #
          Radical Rodent

          To be honest, I cannot disagree with you, TdeF. What I was proposing is that, as the media seem to love a good scare story, and people are so willing to lap up tales of doom and gloom, we should reverse the fear – change it from fear of carbon to fear of loss of carbon: we need it; don’t let it be turned irretrievably into its various rock forms! It is an idea that could have legs, were we to let it run (mind you, we may have to be careful that people don’t go so mad as to destroy anything and everything with a shell, or coral reefs, etc., etc.).

          60

          • #
            TdeF

            I was just puzzled as people have written to me about carbon capture in rocks and what you wrote was plausible, like the whole man made CO2 driven global warming thing and partly true. There is such a simple explanation for increasing CO2 though other than the car one and you can prove it is not true from C14.

            However after six billion years and 165 million since the last big meteor strike, the biosphere has been very stable. Mankind, at least Homo Sapiens has been around a very short time though, perhaps 80,000 years. I think as a species we are doing less damage to the environment now than in the 1890s despite the much higher population. Coal was the key. It will eventually run out but peak oil did not happen and we have triple the number of people.

            It is just frustrating that there has been no advance in energy storage since ww2 and the $1,000,000,000,000 is being spent on windmills and solar panels, both unsustainable, fragile, intermittent and short term.

            60

      • #
        Rollo

        You make a good point Rodent. CO2 has been steadily captured as carbonates for billions of years. The amount of CO2 captured as carbonates in sedimentary rocks, corals, chalk etc exceeds that in the oceans and atmosphere by more than 3 orders of magnitude. In the future this may limit the availability of carbon for living things. Even the amount of carbon held in fossil fuel reserves is a tiny fraction of that sequestered as “rock”.

        Patrick Moore paper

        80

    • #
      Phil R

      You could teach that carbon is a black and black is evil

      Dang,the kids would love this. A revolt against teachers because pencils are evil and contributing to climate change.

      50

      • #
        Andrew McRae

        Nah, you’ll have to refocus the hate on silicon. Kids in grade 3 are using Microsoft Surface tablets in school these days.

        30

  • #
    Mark M

    Peter Hannam tweets:

    Sign of anti-@BOM_au critics throwing in the towel? No submissions against temperature dataset in 2016

    https://twitter.com/p_hannam/status/785680528686985216

    Report of the Technical Advisory Forum September 2016

    http://www.bom.gov.au/climate/change/acorn-sat/documents/2016_TAF_report.pdf
    . . .
    Hold onto your ‘electric’ car, Peter.

    71

    • #
      el gordo

      Peter really is a disgraceful journalist.

      62

    • #
      Peter C

      Who even knew that the 2nd meeting had been held (or was going to be held)?

      I made an unsolicited submission to the first report and received a acknowledgement. I was not advised tof the second meeting.

      The 2nd report makes no mention of public submissions so I suppose that they did not ask for any.

      71

    • #
      Rereke Whakaaro

      anti-@BOM_au critics throwing in the towel? No submissions against temperature dataset in 2016

      Peter Hannam has obviously not watched the movie, “Zulu”.

      A small force of educated, informed, and disciplined people, can withstand repeated attacks from a much larger, but poorly trained, enemy force.

      This is because the attackers consistently make the mistake of assuming that they can compensate for a lack of fire-power, by the number of people that they can throw into the battle.

      All the defenders have to do, is simply wait, and fend off people like Peter Hannam, until the attackers finally realise for themselves, that the war has been lost, whilst they were distracted.

      91

      • #

        I agree … I elect Michael Caine for leader of the anti-@BOM movement.

        It’ll be like one big safari; hunting the big elephants in the room whilst trying to avoid the shield slapping and hyper-aggressive hoards of left-wing apologists. Sooner or later, as you say, they will realize that their numbers and ability to make a lot of noise, were just not enough to win the day. Huzzah!

        10

    • #
      David-of-Cooyal-in-Oz

      Thanks Mark,
      I doubt that I’ll ever read the full report in your second link, but did get as far as recommendation 3:

      “a) Continues to develop high-level metadata factsheets for each station following the release of the next ACORN-SAT dataset. The factsheets should specify the timing of and reasons for adjustments and the reference stations used in making those adjustments;”

      This I took as recognition that the BoM was not, and continues to not be transparent, or even revealing of its homogenisation activities. Am I correct in this?
      Cheers,
      Dave B

      71

    • #
      toorightmate

      I reckon Elon might get to Mars before he has a successful car and a successful battery and a successful recharging system.

      30

  • #
    el gordo

    More than a junket.

    A high school in the central west of NSW took a busload of students to Collaroy last year to see first hand ‘potential future problems associated with climate change and rising sea levels. The students were left to consider what the beach will look like in another 100 years with a 90cm sea level rise predicted.’

    81

  • #
    el gordo

    BoM Intellectual Property (sic) Hacked

    ‘It is not known what the motivation for the attack was, but experts have suggested it could be commercial, strategic or both.

    ‘The bureau is considered a critical national resource, and another state would place a high value on its intellectual property and scientific research.’

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      David Maddison

      I am looking forward to all the “September was the” hottest / wettest / driest / most flood prone / windiest Septembers eeeevvvvvuuuuuuhhhh records.

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        el gordo

        Darwin was also very wet in September.

        ‘In terms of rainfall, Darwin has already received 70 percent of its October average and just came out of its wettest September since 1984.’ Weatherzone

        At the moment they are experiencing a heatwave.

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      TdeF

      I have already read that the lack of cyclones is itself ‘climate change’. Drought was ‘climate change’. Now we will read that the record rainfall is also ‘climate change’. You have to wonder how everything is ‘climate change’ and not just the climate. Droughts and flooding rains. Dorothea Mackellar. 1904. She was right.

      What is reprehensible is that with over 1,000 full time scientists (BOM and CSIRO) studying the weather furiously to prove Climate Change, we get more sense from an 18 year old girl in 1904. As climate reporting is more and more automated, why do we need so many people? Do we trust computer models now more than observations? Will someone in the BOM please get up and say Sydney will not be under 100 metres of water in 2100 and that this serious prediction from Robyn Williams of the ABC was always outrageous?

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    Mark M

    A 97% Global Warming Scientist Lament

    As I was measuring warming air,

    I saw some snow that wasn’t there.

    It wasn’t there again today,

    I wish I wish it would go away.

    https://www.j2ski.com/snow_forecast/Australia/

    (h/t iowahawk)

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      David Maddison

      That link only seems to take you to the main page. To see the curriculum go to the menu, the three horizontal lined on the left.

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      David Maddison

      Also, from the directory you can go to the link “The climate change program” and then within the page that takes you to you can go to the paragraph “Please find the full program for the Climate Change Challenge here: climate-change-challenge-program” and click on that to see the program.

      The whole thing seems to be utterly devoid of all intellectual merit whatsoever.

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    Rod Stuart

    The public is being assaulted by this phony “climate change” propaganda.

    When one looks with some logic and reason rather than emotion, some interesting details emerge.

    The Province of Ontario was once the powerhoue of the Canadian economy, but for two decades has been dedicated to suicide in the same manner as South Australia.

    This professional presentation by Professional Engineers demonstrates that the addition of wind and solar to the grid doubles CO2 emissions and double the cost of electricity to the consumer.

    One could expect that the drivers of energy policy in this country would study the results in other locales, such as Ontario as well as Europe. Will it happen?

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    toorightmate

    Al Gore is now batting in Hillary’s team.
    Both of these luminaries are spectacular in their abilities to fail.

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    pat

    Clinton/Gore Miami Dade College event Tuesday.
    back to tiny crowds after a day when MSM worldwide were complicit in the fraud that Clinton rally at Ohio State Uni on Monday had 18,500 in attendance! pull the other one.
    i am investigating that claim, plus exposing the recent NBC/WSJ poll with Clinton 11 points ahead of Trump, at the bottom of jo’s “Unthreaded” thread.
    one lengthy comment this morning has gone into moderation, so check for that as well went it comes out!

    WATCH THE VIDEO: 2min32secs: 11 Oct: WSVN 7News Miami: Hillary Clinton campaigns with Al Gore at Miami Dade College
    http://wsvn.com/news/local/hillary-clinton-al-gore-to-hold-campaign-rally-at-miami-dade-college/

    11 Oct: AP: Clinton brings in Gore as closer on climate change
    By KATHLEEN HENNESSEY and CATHERINE LUCEY
    MIAMI (AP) — Al Gore laid out the environmental stakes of the presidential race in stark terms during a campaign stop for Hillary Clinton Tuesday, arguing that electing her opponent would lead to “climate catastrophe.”…
    “We cannot risk putting a climate denier in the White House,” Clinton said…
    At the rally was Miami Dade College student Adam Demayo, 24.
    “Every beach I go to is polluted,” said Demayo, a former Sanders supporter who said he is reluctantly voting for Clinton. “My children are going to, like, die. I want to dedicate my life to saving the planet.”
    The world is on pace for the hottest year on record…READ ON
    http://elections.ap.org/content/clinton-brings-gore-closer-climate-change

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    Lloydww

    Because nothing improves a picture of sunset than a landscape’s worth of wind farms…

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    David Maddison

    THIS IS NOT A JOKE

    Melbournians are being asked if Melbourne needs a SECOND desal plant at a cost of a mere $5-10 billion.

    http://www.heraldsun.com.au/news/victoria/does-melbourne-need-a-second-desalination-plant/news-story/02a1b4dd6956dd9380a9b3c5e6c89cf7

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    RoHa

    So the sun isn’t going to set any more? (Or the Earth will no longer come up, as the fashionable theory has it.
    Not that it makes any difference.)

    Australia will bake in perpetual sunlight.
    Britain will freeze in the dark. (More than before, that is.)

    All thanks to CO2

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    Roy Hogue

    Destroy sunsets? I suppose if the CO2 got too thick it might destroy our ability to enjoy the sunset. We’d be too busy worrying about climate change to even look at the sunset. And by the way, someone should tell them that sunrise is just as spectacular and they should get up earlier — and worry about that too.

    But the sad truth is that we’re already too worried to enjoy the sunset. Or at least the climate change worriers are. I guess that leaves their share of the beauty for the rest of us to enjoy since they aren’t using it.

    See, a silver lining in every cloud sunset and sunrise.

    My contempt for all this nonsense grows by the minute. My curse to those who would use children in such a way.

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    pat

    a few laughs in here:

    11 Oct: Sun-Sentinel: Al Gore tells Floridians their vote ‘really, really, really counts’
    By Anthony Man and Dan Sweeney
    In the heavily Republican Panhandle, Trump held an evening rally in Panama City Beach.
    He called Clinton an “all-talk politician” who is “crooked as a three-dollar bill.”
    “Folks, folks, we’re being led by stupid people,” he told the crowd of about 11,000 at Pier Park Amphitheater. Several thousand more people ringed the gates of the venue…

    Matthew’s strengthening from tropical storm to Category 5 hurricane “in just 36 hours,” Gore said, “is very unusual.” He provided a lengthy and detailed explanation of heat trapped in the atmosphere warming the ocean. He said the resulting warmer Caribbean Sea is why it spun into a Category 5 storm so quickly.
    Both candidates said sea level rise means the storm surge from the hurricane was worse than it would have been had oceans not been rising…
    As Gore detailed a range of perils exacerbated by climate change, Clinton sat behind him, often nodding her head. Among them:
    • Street flooding in some coastal communities. “Yes, there are now at high tides sometimes fish from the oceans swimming in some of the streets of Miami Beach and Delray and Fort Lauderdale,” Gore said.
    • The spread of the Zika virus is worsened by the warming climate, Gore said. Changes in climate mean such diseases can take root in different places and that mosquitoes bite more often when it’s warmer.
    He said such ills “are really wake-up calls for us. Mother Nature is giving us a very clear and powerful message. We cannot continue putting 110 million tons of global warming producing pollution in the atmosphere every day as if it’s an open sewer.”…

    Clinton’s rally at Miami Dade College was in the same gymnasium where former Gov. Jeb Bush announced his ultimately unsuccessful candidacy for the Republican presidential nomination in June 2015. Her lectern was in almost exactly the same spot as Bush’s.
    ***One big difference: the gym was configured for a much larger crowd for Bush than Clinton.
    The venue was filled to capacity for Bush, with at least 3,000 people on hand. On Tuesday, Clinton drew 1,600…

    Bill Clinton in Belle Glade
    ***In Belle Glade, about 450 people heard the former president argue his case for why his wife would make the best choice for president…
    On Wednesday, Trump is scheduled to appear in Ocala and Lakeland. On Thursday, Trump holds a rally at the Expo Center at the South Florida Fairgrounds west of West Palm Beach.
    http://www.sun-sentinel.com/news/politics/fl-clinton-trump-florida-four-weeks-20161011-story.html

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    pat

    ***”at least one”:

    11 Oct: Tampa Bay Times: In storm-hit Florida, Hillary Clinton ties Hurricane Matthew to climate change
    By Patricia Mazzei and Amy Sherman, Miami Herald
    ***At least one person attended because of Gore: Marian Azeem-Angel, 18, a no-party-affiliated Miami Dade College student studying environmental science.
    “He is the one I’m most excited about,” she said. When Azeem-Angel heard Gore was coming, she confessed, “I got heart palpitations.”
    “Environmental topics a lot of people feel are out of reach, but he can help educate people — you don’t need to be extremely knowledgeable on the subject to get involved,” she said.
    Trump, she said, is “someone who says global warming is a hoax, that it’s not happening, is just in denial. There is so much science. We need to start facing it and dealing with it.”
    http://www.tampabay.com/news/politics/stateroundup/in-storm-hit-florida-hillary-clinton-ties-hurricane-matthew-to-climate/2297552

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    David Maddison

    O/T Here is an interesting factoid. There was no ice at the North Pole in the summer of 1958.

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    Testing 2 postings lost in space. (

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    Sorry, but this is off topic I know, but I can’t hold back till the weekend unthreaded, when I’ll have more to say.

    The Queensland Governement has just released its Interim Report on the 50% Renewable target by 2030.

    It’s a lot to trawl through in the interim for me, but needless to say, I’m livid.

    They actually say that they’ll be doing it.

    So, while there are four pdf documents to go through, I’ll just direct you to one of them, shown at this link. (just a 3 page pdf document)

    In general, they have already had a number of ‘public consultation’ meetings, and while the one in Brisbane was well attended, they had 8 meetings in regional Queensland, attended by, umm, wait for it, (in total, all of them) 58 people, showing the, umm, huge interest in something like this. 235 people registered at their website, across the Months and Months it has been open. Only 5 of those people who registered at the site were under 25, showing how young people are right into this.

    In the Months and Months the site has been open they have conducted a quick poll to see if ….. ‘Do you think Queensland can be Australia’s Renewable Energy Leader?’, and they got, wait for it, 6 responses, five in favour.

    A total of 54 submissions were received. The project secretariat will review these separately to the broader public consultation. So, my perception that my submission will perhaps sink without trace.

    One of the documents places reliance, in more than one mention of the use of battery technology to assist with the intermittency.

    So then, back to the short document I linked to.

    Yep, we can do this is the consensus of the Panel.

    It’s only going to cost $6.7 Billion. (Yeah! Right! Good luck with that)

    They are going to construct 5,500MW of large scale renewable power. (Which effectively means that planning for all of that would already be in place, but as yet, it’s still just a thought bubble)

    Umm, wait a minute, 5500MW of renewable power NAMEPLATE, and there is currently 8200MW Nameplate for coal fired power alone, so that doesn’t sound like 50% to me. That’s Nameplate, not actual generated electricity, and even that Nameplate is only 40% of coal fired power, so barely even 14% of just coal fired and not adding in Gas fired.

    However, the big kicker in all this is that little graphic at the bottom of page three. Look at it. Innocuous enough.

    Look at the very bottom line there where it says:

    Closure of Coal Fired Plant – ZERO MW

    Yep, they’re not even going to close one coal fired power plant.

    I am registered to attend the Rockhampton round of those public meetings next Wednesday, but really, what the hell is the point of going. I’ll be there, just to see if they can keep a straight face while spruiking all of this.

    This is an absolute joke.

    Tony.

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      Yonniestone

      Tony attend the meeting, give your real world factual account of the situation, make sure you record it then put it up on youtube and watch it go viral.

      In the words of the late great Teddy Whitten “Stick it up em, stick it right up em!”

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        How can I record it?

        I was sort of hoping the local TV people might be there, and I could perhaps persuade them to give me a copy of what I say, but (a) I doubt they’ll be there, (b) and that’s if I am even allowed to say anything at all, (c) and I’m sure that the format doesn’t allow the public to even speak at all, and (d) I feel sure that if they have read what my submission says, they will be going out of their way not to allow me to speak.

        I’ll still be trying though. I have a couple of bullet points, short and to the point, and I’ll be using the nearby Stanwell Plant as my reference, in much the same manner as I use Bayswater as a reference here at Joanne’ site. I’ll also be referring them to my submission, if it sees the light of day.

        It’s news here in Rockhampton, and wider Queensland, at the moment, so given that it is current, there may be some media there, and if so, I’ll be buttonholing them.

        I’m sort of not really holding my breath though.

        I just don’t know how they think they can get away with it, as surely they must have taken some advice from engineers.

        I would just love the TV people to be there.

        Tony.

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          ianl8888

          We’ve reached this point quite a few times.

          We do NOT have control of the public megaphone. Those with control have demonstrated with unswerving, relentless intent that hard, detailed, technical information will not be published or broadcast to a general audience if this can possibly be prevented.

          The 2-week old SA debacle, dangerous and demonstrative of deliberate cynical risk in the face of experienced warnings over 20 years, has shown this with ironclad evidence. The majority of the populace remains somewhat fearful and completely incurious.

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          Yonniestone

          Record it on the sly, mobile in the pocket or someone in the background pretending to be using their phone while videoing, unless they have ultra strict mobile rules no one will notice another person playing with their phone, I’d do it for you if I wasn’t in Victoria Tony, how far is it from me again?

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          GrahamP

          The “expert panel” consist of an investment banker (chair) 2 climate change activists / advisers, an energy consultant to gov’t and a physics professor. Not a solitary Engineer in sight.

          Obviously set up by Ms Puddleduck to get the answer they wanted.

          There does not seem to be any sort of cost benefit analysis, only feel good BS.

          I recently moved from Vic to Qld for family reasons. Frying pan to fire might be an apt description.

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          MariC

          Have a cell phone? I can get 5 minutes of “film” on mine. Set it to video, prop it up against a cup or book or something, and voila – instant tv star.

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      Rollo

      Wind farms should be forced to have on site battery storage with all the necessary converters etc to produce some nominal output 24by7 . “Nameplate” is a totally meaningless number and should not be used. If wind farms were legally bound to produce output 24by7 year in year out (like a coal fired plant does) nobody would ever consider putting wind turbines on the grid.

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      tom0mason

      TonyfromOz,

      The sheeple are sleeping!
      The madness will continue until it starts to hit with high prices, more blackouts, and widespread unreliability.

      The propagandists are blowing hard these days, even when the wind isn’t. They have the ear of Western governments thus as I say, the madness continues.

      The future’s Green, the outlook is medieval!

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        toorightmate

        Unfortunately Tomo, you are right. We need several more blackouts to get the message across plus prohibitive power bills

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      BruceC

      It’s not just QLD Tony …..

      Coal-fired power stations: Senate committee to examine how best to close them.

      Greens and Labor to combine forces to push for inquiry looking at ways to meet Australia’s climate change targets.

      A Senate committee will examine how best to close coal power stations to meet Australia’s climate change targets when the Greens and Labor combine to set up an inquiry on Wednesday.
      The Greens and Labor will move a motion to ask the Senate environment and communications references committee to report on mass closures of electricity generators, and expect sufficient crossbench support to set up the inquiry.

      It will consider how the retirement of coal power plants can help meet the Paris climate target of limiting global warming to 2C and how to achieve it with “minimal community and individual impact from closures”. That will include ways to attract new investment and jobs to affected communities.

      Read the full story here;
      https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2016/oct/12/coal-fired-power-stations-senate-committee-to-examine-how-best-to-close-them

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        Oh, how cool is that?

        The chair of this Senate Committee to close down coal fired power plants is ….. Greens Senator Larissa Waters.

        Hey lady, just turn em all off.

        See what happens then.

        Go on. I dare you.

        Tony.

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    theRealUniverse

    Better start riding horses..Oh wait..they need grass..that needs CO2 to grow..OH MY!

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    pat

    12 Oct: Guardian: Elon Musk hits back at coal baron who called him a ‘fraud’ over green subsidies
    Trump backer Robert Murray claimed Tesla had received $2bn from taxpayer
    Musk tweets that the real fraud is ‘denial of climate science’
    by Nicky Woolf in San Francisco
    Robert Murray, an outspoken Donald Trump supporter and the CEO of the Murray Energy Corporation – America’s largest coalmining company – went after Musk on CNBC’s Squawk Box on Monday and called Tesla “a fraud”.
    “[Musk]’s gotten $2bn from the taxpayer, has not made a penny yet in cashflow,” Murray continued. “Here again: it’s subsidies.”…
    Tesla does not, in fact, receive direct government subsidies but does receive money for selling “carbon credits” to other companies whose vehicle fleets don’t meet emissions standards in states such as California.
    Buyers of Tesla vehicles also currently receive a $7,500 tax credit from the government, but that is an incentive subsidy to the purchaser, rather than to the company itself…
    Murray’s political activity has long been controversial…
    ***Even before he became the Republican presidential nominee, Trump made coal-fueled power – including so-called “clean coal” – a central part of his pitch to voters. In Sunday’s presidential debate in St Louis, Missouri, he made the grandiloquent pronouncement that “coal will last for ***a thousand years in this country”…
    https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2016/oct/11/elon-musk-robert-murray-coal-green-subsidies

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    pat

    BruceC’s Guardian piece ends with:

    “According to an Essential poll released on Tuesday, 60% of Australians said renewable energy was “the solution to our energy needs” compared with 16% who regarded it as “a threat to the energy supply” and 24% undecided.
    “The poll also found 60% of those polled believe the South Australian blackout would have occurred “regardless of how the electricity was produced”, compared with 17% who blamed over-reliance on renewables and 24% undecided.”

    (the writer of the piece is Paul Karp who, according to the Guardian bio “was previously a journalist at Thomson Reuters covering industrial relations for the Workforce news service and has written for Justinian, the Gazette of Law and Journalism and ABC’s The Drum.”)

    when u look at the topics & questions in the Essential Report for 11 Oct, it might as well be designed by ABC’s The Drum:

    PDF: 15 pages: 11 Oct: The Essential Report
    http://www.essentialvision.com.au/wp-content/uploads/2016/10/Essential-Report_161011.pdf

    when u look at the responses to Reason for SA power blackout, page 13 and Renewable energy, page 14, they might well have come from people who watch/read ABC’s The Drum.

    when u look at the questions on SA power blackout, there isn’t one, for example, asking did the reliance on renewable energy worsen the blackout?

    when u look at the question re renewable energy – Do you think renewable energy is the solution to our future energy needs or is renewable energy a threat to our future energy supply? – the response options are “solution”, “threat” & “don’t know”.

    what does that say for timelines, price considerations, getting rid of coal, etc?

    nothing that would be of interest to anyone except those who would watch/read ABC’s The Drum.

    LinkedIn: Peter Lewis, Owner, Essential Media Communications
    Previous: NSW Attorney General Jeff Shaw, The Daily Telegraph, Australian Associated Press
    Director of Essential Media Communications (EMC), a public affairs and research company specialising in campaigning for progressive social and political organisations.
    EMC has run many high profile campaigns, include the Your Rights at Work campaign for the ACTU which is credited in being a decisive factor in the 2007 Federal Election…
    WE ACT – we implement aggressive media strategies, drawing together free media, paid media and social media to shift opinion and apply pressure…
    Media Adviser: NSW Attorney General Jeff Shaw 1997 – 1999 – First term Carr Government, assisted with major law and IR reform agenda…
    https://au.linkedin.com/in/peter-lewis-7a32754

    HUNDREDS OF ARTICLES BY ESSENTIAL’S PETER LEWIS FOR ABC’S THE DRUM:

    ABC: Peter Lewis
    http://www.abc.net.au/news/peter-lewis/39660

    why have elections when we pay ABC to set the agenda?

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    pat

    “say experts”:

    11 Oct: Guardian: Joshua Robertson: Queensland can reach its 50% renewables target by 2030, say experts
    Panel says there are three ‘credible’ ways to hit target but ‘significant government policy action’ needed
    (Joshua Robertson is Guardian Australia’s Brisbane correspondent. He previously worked on the investigations desk and covered organised crime for the Courier-Mail and the Sunday Mail)
    But it said the impact on electricity prices would be “broadly cost neutral”…
    The Queensland energy minister, Mark Bailey, said the release of the report was a “groundbreaking development” in the government’s pursuit of its renewables goal.
    It showed “Queensland can meet a 50 per cent renewable energy target while maintaining electricity security and reliability over the next 14 years”…
    Tim Seelig, of the Queensland Conservation Council, said the panel’s draft report showed recent commentary about renewables targets being unrealistic was “wrong, and that in fact there are several options for achieving the targets”.
    “Queensland is the highest emitter of carbon pollution of all the Australian states, and electricity generation is the largest single source of those emissions,” he said.
    “It is therefore imperative that renewable electricity generation is made a high priority in Queensland.”
    https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2016/oct/12/queensland-can-reach-its-50-renewables-target-by-2030-say-experts

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    pat

    no big deal!

    12 Oct: ABC: Power fully restored across South Australia after weather damaged transmission towers
    Big industrial companies in South Australia finally have full loads of electricity two weeks after extreme weather damaged transmission towers and plunged the state into darkness…
    The company has built five temporary transmission towers near Melrose in regional South Australia after three transmission lines and 22 towers were damaged in the September 28 storm.
    The damage led to a statewide blackout and several regional communities were left without power for days…
    “This is a significant achievement that will allow work to begin on permanent repairs,” Mr Masters said.
    “While the design and scheduling details are still being confirmed, we expect permanent towers to be in place over the coming months, provided weather conditions remain stable.”
    South Australian Treasurer Tom Koutsantonis tweeted that large companies like BHP would have a “full load” with the system “effectively” back on.
    Large industrial sites in the days since the storm had access to some power but not normal loads.
    Power was urgently restored to Whyalla’s Arrium steelworks which minimised its loss to about $10 million, while the furnace at Port Pirie’s Nyrstar smelter was damaged during the outage which is expected to cost the company millions of dollars.
    http://www.abc.net.au/news/2016-10-12/power-fully-restored-across-south-australia/7927408

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    MariC

    It isn’t about the children, or the poor, or those in hot climates, it’s about control and maintaining the status quo for those who already -have- what they need and want.

    http://www.nytimes.com/2016/10/13/world/asia/india-air-conditioning.html?_r=0

    So allowing people a comfortable environment, one made affordable and accessible by modern technology and manufacturing, is a threat to our planet. A ban on cooling, which is, effectively, a major reduction in the -potential- future electrical needs. Let them swelter in windowless and below-ground-level hovels, as long as the greens and their buddies have their needs met. And the poor kids in India can learn English reading the papers written by the kids at Lismore (and everywhere else this bs is going on) – or maybe they’ll just use them to fan off the heat and flies, mop their wet brows.

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