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Weekend Unthreaded

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Weekend Unthreaded, 9.3 out of 10 based on 15 ratings

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174 comments to Weekend Unthreaded

  • #
    Richard111

    Ulp! No comments yet! Okay, here goes. Been reading up on the Ideal Gas Laws in the hopes of learning stuff. So far I’ve managed to work out that a dry atmosphere, 1% water vapour, will have 25 H2O molecules for every CO2 molecule in any given volume. Saw no point in trying to work out radiation levels.

    70

    • #
      RobK

      Ideal gases are hard to find in the wild.

      30

      • #
        Roy Hogue

        Oh come now, Rob, you only need to monitor the output of any politician running for office and you’ll have all the ideal gas you could ever want. And in the wild too. ;-)

        70

        • #
          Another Ian

          Roy See #7.1

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          • #
            Roy Hogue

            Ian,

            I’m still laughing. Wow, clam down my pounding heart… As they say, what a hoot! Or a hoot and couple more besides. ;-)

            But I’m afraid we can’t implement that idea because if we did so many government people would be out of a job that we couldn’t feed them all. Just think of all the harm a negative net value of government would cause. And they’re for the most part nearly there already.

            00

    • #
      Peter C

      I am just reading “Metoerology for Glider Pilots by C E Wallington, International 3rd Edition 1977.

      This book is regarded as a classic in its field. He does not have much to say on Green House Theory. In response to your observation about Co2 and H2O, Wally agrees. Water is a lot more prevalent. In fact he says that 300,000 cubic kilometres of water are evaporated from the surface every year. In spite of that apparently enormous volume of water the likelihood of a water molecule forming a cloud droplet is slim due to a lack of condensation nuclei. Also if raindrop should be happen to form it takes a while for it to contact enough cloud droplets to grow into chubby rain (Steve Martin) and get big enough to fall down.

      70

      • #
        aussiepete

        Peter C. With the greatest respect,you surely must be a glider pilot.

        10

      • #
        Roy Hogue

        Peter,

        Am I right, what you’re reading has a lot more material on how to predict, find and take advantage of thermal and mountain ridge (wind) generated lift that you can use than the meteorology we powered pilots got?

        I had to learn a lot of what I ended up knowing the hard way, including sometimes avoiding free lift when I didn’t want it. It would probably be good reading for any pilot who flies light aircraft. The deserts and mountains around here are places where you can get a lot of help for free if you know where to look for it. And conversely, sometimes you end up descending on the wrong side of a wind shear or mountain wave and have to get out of it.

        I’ll see if I can find the book — just for curiosity mind you, since I can’t fly anymore.

        20

        • #
          Roy Hogue

          And found it but, wow, the price for a used book is steep. How much in demand can this be? I’ve found used prices above $80 US. I’d rather pay the new price if I was willing to go that much for a book to read just for fun, only $79.95.

          Sellers must know what they can hope to get for a used book in condition that will hold up under use as a reference.

          20

        • #
          Peter C

          Yes Roy,

          Mountain ridge lift is well understood, thermals less so but at least the conditions leading to thermals are predictable. Mountain lee waves are more common than I had realised. There are also shear waves which can occur over flat land. Convergences of air masses are very interesting. Very few people understand them well.

          The interesting thing is that there is a lot to be learned by reading a comparatively old book such as Wallington’s.

          10

          • #
            Roy Hogue

            Mountain lee waves caught me and my instructor one day. I was at maximum rate of climb airspeed and sinking. We reckoned that we would hit the mountain ridge we needed to cross to get to Bakersfield so he diverted me to what is now called the Bob Hope International airport where he asked for the runway that was almost perfectly perpendicular to the wind, about 30 or 35 kts and proceeded to make me keep trying a crosswind landing in more wind than the airplane was supposed to be able to handle until I did it right. I think I only went around once. Then we asked for the same runway for takeoff. He was an SOB about some things but I soon realized that I was being forced to learn what I might not get from other flight instructors.

            I think he knew that plane could handle more than what the FAA would certify it for. At least I hope so.

            Happy reading and even happier flying.

            40

  • #
    Lucky

    A non-grammatical note on grammar

    It’s = It is
    ————

    IT’S
    It’s is a contraction for it is, or sometimes it has.

    Examples:

    It’s = It is
    “It’s my bedtime.”
    “It’s time to go.”
    “It’s only 11 o’clock.”
    “It’s over there.”

    It’s = It has
    “It’s been a long time.”
    “It’s been brewing awhile.”
    “It’s got to happen soon.”

    ITS
    Indicates possession without the use of an apostrophe.
    Or, put a more technical way, its is the possessive form of the neuter pronoun “it”
    Compare with- his, her, their, whose.

    Examples showing the possessive using its:
    “Every dog has its day.”
    “The jury has reached its decision.”
    “Stop its momentum!”
    “Guess its color.”

    A Good Rule of Thumb:
    If you can replace it with his or her, there’s no apostrophe.

    ITS’
    Its’ is never correct. Ever.

    Acknowledgment-
    http://its-not-its.info/

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    • #
      RobK

      It’ses are always difficult.

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      • #
        mike restin

        Almost as hard as is is for politicians, isn’t it?

        50

      • #
        Gollum

        Naasty Its’s are related to hobbitses and we hates them…

        50

      • #
        Olaf Koenders

        When deciding which one (its vs it’s), translate the reference in your head like “it is”. If that fits better, use it. “It’s” is just a contraction of “it is”, like “can’t” and “can not” or “cannot”.

        “It’s a terrible thing when people get confused about its meaning”.

        20

    • #
      jorgekafkazar

      IT can stand for “investment trust.” There are many of these “ITS.” They probably possess stuff, making said stuff ITS’ stuff. No?

      30

      • #
        Ted O'Brien.

        The wandering apostrophe. One of the outstanding measures of the failures of our education system.

        As a sometime pedant from Oz, I would write that IT’s for one trust, ITs’ for plural trusts. For Information Technology it would usually be the singular..

        20

    • #
      David Maddison

      On the subject of grammar you’d think the Law Council of Australia would have a better grip on the English language than to say someone was “hung” wouldn’t you?

      As I’m sure you all know, “hanged” is the past tense and past participle of “hang” in reference to a person being put to death by hanging.

      QUOTE “Nobody has been executed in Australia since 2 February 1967 when Ronald Ryan was hung in Melbourne for shooting a prison guard during an escape attempt.”

      http://www.lawcouncil.asn.au/lawcouncil/divisions/legal-practice-division/death-penalty

      50

      • #
        Olaf Koenders

        Exactly right. “Hanged” is the ONLY term used to define execution in past tense by that method of execution. “Hung” could mean curtains or pictures etc.

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      • #
        Retired Now

        We all used to say hung where I lived in the 1950s and 1960s. hanged was an americanism to be scorned, or at least it showed you weren’t one of us.

        30

        • #
          Olaf Koenders

          Good point. Language is a fluid beast and often changes locally because they have a preference. I mean, I’ve looked into the NZ “eccint” and I can’t really define its origins. Can’t be Polynesian. It’s closer to Seth Efrriken.. :)

          50

      • #
        Olaf Koenders

        On the subject of law, it bothers me that almost everyone uses the word “understand” to mean “comprehend”.

        In law, to “understand”, means you “stand under” their jurisdiction. That’s a bad word to use in response to a magistrate or police when they ask you if you “understand” them.

        “Your Honour, although my comprehension of law is limited, full understanding of such a dynamic language is untenable in my regard.”

        In short: “Your Honour, I comprehend what you say, however I can never understand it.”

        People also frustratingly refer to themselves as a “person” or “persons”. In law, a person is a corporation (corp-oration – Latin for the dead speaking). They can only deal with dead or artificial entities. Never accept government granted titles such as “Mr.” etc. It’s still regarded as a person.

        You are either a man or woman. That’s it. I blows away their charade. Admitting being the “person” gives them jurisdiction. It’s also called “personation”, a penalty for which can be 3 years in the slammer, but they NEVER charge anyone with this in these instances or their jig would be up.

        “Is your name Mr. Somebody?”
        “Your Honour, I am a man. I am not a mister, person, corporation or slave. I am the beneficiary of the estate you addressed”.

        There’s a LOT more to all this, but those are the basics of putting them on notice that you won’t be tricked into becoming trustee of the account they’re trying to access (for fines).

        Note also that when you get a fine, it may contain your name in ALL CAPS. That’s a definite sign they’re addressing you as a “person”. But what you’ll find in the body of the letter – usually threatening – they’ll begin to address someone called “you”. Write them back and explain that you may have received their blackmail in error and for them to please forward it to the correct addressee named “you”.

        What they should be doing is using “Your Name” (in upper and lower case) instead of the word “you” in every instance. If they keep sending you letters addressed to an ALL CAPS name, write on it:

        “Addressee not recognised. Return to sender”.

        You don’t HAVE to accept and open ANY letter you get from anyone – EVER. Stop giving your power to them.

        For more info, Groogle Know Your Rights Group, also look for Bill Turner on YouBoob.

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        • #

          Very good advice! I have a lawyer, my second one, that instructs me if need go to court “say nothing, do not even murmur, else I must charge you three times the price agreed to defend “your sorry ass”! That is good advice when dealing with any part of any government. They are your worst enemy, never your friend!
          All the best! -will-

          40

          • #
            Olaf Koenders

            Thanks will.

            Beware of lawyers. Here’s an excerpt from the “lawyer’s bible”:

            Corpus Juris Secundum (C.J.S.) Vol. 7 § 4:

            “His first duty is to the courts and the public, not to the client. And where ever the duties of his client conflict with those, he owes as an officer of the court in the administration of Justice, the former must yield to the latter.”

            Yes, you read that correctly, “legal professionals” have a clear allegiance to “the system” first and foremost and, as long as your argument doesn’t challenge “the system” they can help you but, if it does, then their hands are tied. So, that’s the first reason why you should almost never use a lawyer, they are there to support “the system” not to help you.

            30

    • #
      Roy Hogue

      How much less complicated and error prone would it be if the apostrophe indicating a contraction and the apostrophe indicating the possessive form had both been put to work for the benefit of the word “it”, all nice and consistent and without the possibility of a mistake?

      Then it’s certain that it’s usage would never be screwed up by the grammatically challenged. But then who am I to question so many hundreds of years of trying to avoid mistakes when it could have been so much easier? The rules for English always seem to be, find the hardest way and do that rather than simplifying. It’s such a small word to be the cause of so many mistakes. We should reserve the mistake possibilities for the really big words and leave the small words alone. ;-)

      20

      • #
        Rereke Whakaaro

        “It is not …”, also contracts to it’s not …, even if it is, and only part of it isn’t. Ain’t that being helpful?

        40

      • #
        Roy Hogue

        Well… I can see that the poor old much abused and longsuffering apostrophe ain’t got no chance no how around here.

        10

  • #
  • #
    el gordo

    ‘It is an astonishing find that was hiding in plain sight.

    ‘Researchers analysing laser data from the Royal Australian Navy have discovered a vast reef behind the familiar Great Barrier Reef.

    ‘The images revealed great fields of unusual doughnut-shaped circular mounds, each 200-300 metres across and up to 10 metres deep at the centre.’

    Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-3760516/Now-s-REALLY-Great-Barrier-Reef-Scientists-vast-new-reef-hiding-Australia-s-famous-attraction.html#ixzz4IXSDZ5RX
    Follow us: @MailOnline on Twitter | DailyMail on Facebook

    50

    • #
      Graeme No.3

      How wonderful! And how long before those scientists who didn’t see this massive part of the reef, for 30 years, wait before telling us that the reef is in grave danger of dying? ( Send more money now).

      81

    • #
      Rod Stuart

      Clever antics with computer animated images make it easy to put together believable documentaries these days.
      In this one I think somebody misunderstood the outstanding work that Svensmark published this week.
      Throw in numerous video shots, many repeated, and accompany them with a made up graph and voila!, a new theory.

      20

    • #
      scaper...

      Man could nuke the reef and it would recover. I put forward a study of the recovery of Bikini Atoll in the quest to prevent the reef from being declared, “endangered” a while back.

      http://citeseerx.ist.psu.edu/viewdoc/download?doi=10.1.1.167.889&rep=rep1&type=pdf

      I believe it was helpful.

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    • #
      Just Thinkin'

      I heard on Their ABC the other day that a “new” reef had
      been discovered off the East coast of Tassie at a depth
      of 67 metres.

      What is it doing down there……in both senses of the word?

      40

      • #
        Komrade Kuma

        Nothing “New” about it at all, its just that there is a species called black ‘coral’ and ‘coral’ can be conflated with ‘reef’ to fabricate a ‘story’ in the media. Having dived that area (although not to that depth), it looked much like what has always been in that area. There are coral’s growing at the mouth of the Tamar in Northern Tassie too, have been there for ever.

        Watched a show last night about the Corn industry and the advent of corn syrup. This sort of drivel is just the media’s ‘corn syrup’ spin added to something that is of passing intetest as a stand alone feature but even a tenuous implied connection to the ‘threatened GBR’ and ‘deadly’ climate change’ is the sugar hit.

        50

      • #
        tom0mason

        Most folk assume corals are shallow water creature, in fact they are not. There are many coral types and they inhabit the seas dow to some very murky depths.

        https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deep-water_coral

        20

  • #

    I have little time for journalists, not because of what they do, but the fact that they never check anything to find out for themselves, just blindly believing what they are told. Here, I don’t mean those news readers or current affairs presenters, because, well, they’re just talking heads, there to look handsome or pretty, and be able to competently read the autocue, whilst looking down the lens and having the right facial expressions. I don’t expect them to know anything, and I’m never disappointed really. However, the journalists who write the ‘stuff’ for the autocue, or write for any media outlet, well, they should be checking to find out the real facts for themselves.

    Take the ‘big’ news story this week, the finding of a planet orbiting our closest Star, other than our Sun.

    It’s in the ‘Goldilocks Zone’. Say, nothing new there, as we all know what that is from decades back, if we bothered to find out, well, from the time I was born actually, back in the early 50′s and the term came to my knowledge in the late 60′s when I ‘got into’ reading.

    It’s at Proxima Centauri. Say nothing new there either, as that is the third ‘star’ of what was once the Alpha Centauri Binary Star.

    We all know where that it, It’s the ‘Pointer’ furthest from Crux, The Southern Cross. Nothing new there either, as my Mum taught me that as an eight year old in the late 50′s.

    It’s 4.3 Light years away, well, nothing new there either, well, 4.243 Light Years away to be exact, as I knew that from Astronomy Classes in High School Science.

    So then, all pretty standard stuff really, so the article (at this ABC news release) explains some things.

    I watched it on the News, in fact, I saw it reported on at three bulletins, and then on the ABC late news.

    Nothing about how long to actually get there from Earth, as, well, I didn’t expect any talking head, or journalist to actually bother to check the Maths, pretty simple really, and if done, would probably have given the story some ‘Wow’ factor, but hey, no one ever checked. The ABC late news went close, with a throwaway line in parting meant in part as humour, saying no need to worry about it as it ….. ‘might’ take perhaps thousands of years to get there from Earth….. End of story.

    Well, 162,349 years to be exact. But hey, no journalist would ever believe that anyway, and if he/she did work it out, they wouldn’t be game to say so, as it’s just so unbelievable, but, who cares, they never checked anyway.

    THAT is why I have little time for journalists.

    Incidentally, I suppose you all would have learned to use The Southern Cross to find due South.

    1. Bisect the two pointers with a line.

    2. Draw a line though the long axis of Crux itself.

    3. Where those two lines join, then drop a vertical line down the surface of the Earth, and that is due South.

    It works every time, no matter what time during the night, or when during the year.

    Always visible in the Southern Hemisphere. Always used by early Navigators.

    Isn’t Science just great!

    Tony.

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    • #

      Journalism has gone down the toilet in the last decade at the very least. It’s not just that journalists write purely from their own biased viewpoint, but they don’t even write coherently or with any attempt at correct spelling or grammar. Many of the latter errors will usually be picked up by any word processor, so it begs the question what are they using? The latter is the first indication that the article will be rubbish.

      On the other hand, I have no issue with biased views, opinions, as long as they are clearly presented as such. But that has fallen by the wayside, with no attempt whatsoever to separate opinions and facts. I’m now seeing technical/computer sites presenting articles about refugees and how horrible Australia is for what they do. Stick to your knitting folks.

      And as for fact gathering and analysis, I suspect that the vast majority don’t even know what that is; all that they have to do is cut and paste from their ‘approved’ sources and regurgitate what their peers have done previously and just put in the latest date. And the sad fact is that many proffering their views aren’t even journalists, such as presenters on Sunrise (which I don’t watch), using TV as a platform for their bias and sounding as if they are well informed. And what’s even sadder is that many viewers believe that they are ‘well informed’.

      Little wonder I don’t watch much TV and just scan the MSM for regular updates on how far they are drifting, ever further, to the far Left. If it weren’t for news media such as Breitbart and the slowly emerging XYZ, and blogs such as this one, I don’t think there’d be any reading enjoyment on the internet.

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    • #
      Robdel

      I do not see how you can be so precise about the time taken to travel there. It depends on how much the space capsule exceeds the escape velocity from the solar system and its means of locomotion. 160000 years as a round figure would be sufficiently accurate.
      But you are quite correct about the present pathetic state of journalism

      10

    • #
      handjive

      So, when 154 scientists write an open letter to the Australian PM on the climate crisis, claiming “there is no Planet B”, they are in fact, wrong?

      10

      • #
        el gordo

        Not one atmospheric scientist.

        This lot have their noses in the trough and when they eventually discover that CO2 doesn’t cause global warming then its time to put Bob Carter’s Plan B into action.

        32

      • #

        Always check twice, and then check it again ….. and again ….. and again.

        I mentioned in my main text that it would take 162,349 years to get to this new exolanet, or as Robdel rightly corrected me, around 160,000 years.

        That is calculated on the speed of light, (around) 186,000MPH, and the current escape velocity, (17,500MPH) which is the terminal speed for vehicles in the space around us, and once that speed is reached, it stays at approximately that speed whilst in space.

        So the maths is this:

        4.243 X 365.25 X 24 X 60 X 60 X 186,000 (light years – one year in days – hours – minutes – seconds – speed of light)

        The divide by 17,500. Then divide by 24, and then 365.25. (escape velocity – hours – days in a year)

        Hence the result of 162,349 years.

        Okay then, so now go to the second link handjive provided, The Conversation article on this new find of the exoplanet.

        Scroll down to the second last paragraph, where it mentions this: (My bolding here)

        The true test would be to go there. Using conventional space technology (either manned or unmanned) and some clever slingshot manoeuvres, it would take at least 15,000 years to reach Proxima Centauri.

        It would seem that they missed a power of ten here somewhere as this makes that escape velocity terminal speed around 180,000MPH, currently around ten times what we can achieve.

        Always check twice.

        Tony.

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        • #
          Analitik

          I suspect that some idiot has read that Proxima Centauri is about 15,000 AU from Alpha Centauri and then totally confused themselves on what an AU (Astronomical Unit – distance from Earth to the Sun) actually is.

          I cannot think of how else they could have come up with that period for travel.

          20

        • #
          Analitik

          I suspect that some 1diot has read that Proxima Centauri is about 15,000 AU from Alpha Centauri and then totally confused themselves on what an AU (Astronomical Unit – distance from Earth to the Sun) actually is.

          I cannot think of how else they could have come up with that period for travel.

          00

          • #
            Rereke Whakaaro

            And the denisens of Proxima Centauri, certainly will not be using Astronomical Units, in estimating how far we are from them.

            00

        • #
          Olaf Koenders

          ..That is calculated on the speed of light, (around) 186,000MPH..

          I thought it was around 186,000 miles per SECOND.. Just bein’ picky.. :)

          40

      • #
        Andrew McRae

        No, they’re right. “Planet B” does not mean “any other planet”, it means “a second planet option for our habitation”.
        It’s like saying there’s 1000 years supply worth of coal and oil still in the ground. About half of all the coal and oil that remains in the world will be too deep or too sparse in grade and is not going to be economically exploitable with any foreseeable technology, so for all practical human purposes that portion does not exist.
        Same with any planet outside our solar system. For all practical economic purposes there is no Planet B.

        The only way discovery of habitable planets, or even signs of organic or living molecules on other planets, would have any effect on our economy is that people might change their values or priorities in response to that new cosmic knowledge, and this might translate to some shift in their earthly behaviour.
        It may be as simple as a brief faddish surge in purchases of astronomy-related goods and services, or it might as large as a permanent global shift in resource allocation, it is difficult to predict.

        Still, no faster-than-light travel, no Planet B.

        10

    • #
      KinkyKeith

      Hi Tony,

      Try this and see if it gives the same result.

      On the Cross, extend the long axis away from the top of the cross. Where the extension reaches an additional 4 times the long axis, drop straight down from there.

      Is it the same?

      I hope that the last 58 years haven’t distorted my memory.

      00

      • #

        My Mum was the leader of the (Girl) Guides, and because of that, the five of us children were all in the Cubs/Scouts, Brownies, and Guides, and I lasted the longest, all the way to Senior Scouts before I joined the RAAF, almost nine years in all.

        When we moved to Queensland in 1960, I had been in the Cubs for a couple of years already.

        I liked the idea of the Stars etc, and Mum would have me lay flat out on the concrete Sump in the back yard, (no city connected sewerage back then on the Gold Coast) and she would point out the Constellations, major stars etcetera and she taught me that finding South thing from the Southern Cross. Stayed with me to this day, and every new place we move to, it’s one of the first things I do to orient myself.

        I tell friends and family, and they can’t believe it because they think that as the stars move around all night then the positioning would change.

        I have heard that some old timers, well, older than I am now anyway, could tell the time by looking at the stars at night.

        I still look for Orion almost every night.

        I can’t say I have heard of your version of finding South though.

        Tony.

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        • #
          Ted O'Brien.

          I recollect four and a half. Couldn’t do it confidently without some kind of aid.

          Where I grew up on a plateau of sorts and many of the fence lines were on NS-EW by the compass, I could tell the time to within about 10 minutes. Put me amongst hills without those fence lines not so good.

          20

        • #
          Annie

          In the Northern Hemisphere we used the Pole Star which indicated North, found by referring to the ‘pointers’ on the Plough. This constellation is otherwise known as the Big Dipper. I can’t remember a time when I wasn’t familiar with it and other NH constellations. Like Tony, my favourite has always been Orion, seen in the winter part of the year in the NH. When we first came to Australia I used to contort myself to see him the right way up as he is upside down in the SH! (sword pointing up instead of down!).

          00

      • #

        KinkyKeith,

        I had never heard your version, so I chased it up.

        It’s 4.5 times Crux’s long axis length, only not from the top going up, but the bottom going down, and it’s the same as mine as the diagram at this link verifies.

        Up or down depending on the way Crux is in the night sky for differing times of the year.

        Tony.

        00

        • #

          I also see your point here as, at the moment, Crux is upside down in the night sky, so up is, well up. I was momentarily confused as I think of the top of Crux is as you see it at that linked diagram, with the uppermost star there as ‘the top’.

          Again, my confusion here, so apologies there.

          Tony.

          20

          • #
            KinkyKeith

            Hi Tony and Ted.

            I’m not surprised at the 4.5 and I did intend the meaurement to start from the bottom of the cross, the bit that you might plant in the ground.

            A long time ago for one of my scout badges so some error could be expected.

            :-)

            00

          • #
            KinkyKeith

            My first comment wasn’t expressed very well: thinking and visualising one thing and writing the opposite.

            00

    • #
      Andrew McRae

      If Astounding Tales of little green men is your thing, do a web search for “Bursov Filippova Maccone HD164595″.
      Over the coming days and weeks that search might begin to show results more interesting than the rumour and tease-graph circulating at the moment.

      11

  • #
    Graeme No.3

    English weather is wonderful.
    Wednesday was hot and very humid.
    Thursday started out humid but it started drizzling from about 11am into the night.
    Friday was cool and sunny and very pleasant.
    Saturday started out humid with minor spotting until it decided to have a downpour just before 4pm for half an hour. Unfortunately just as I was settled in the garden by the moat (it isn’t named the Castle Hotel for nothing) and reading the Saturday paper – it comes in 9 or 10 parts. For gardeners there is a bit about pampering your lantana and encouraging it to spread slowly.
    And for what it is worth I am told that grey squirrels (there are 2 in the garden) get quite feisty if fed sugar lumps. I wonder if that might explain why some of our squirrel-brained trolls keep coming back.

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    • #
      AndyG55

      “English weather is wonderful.
      Wednesday was hot and very humid.
      Thursday started out humid but it started drizzling from about 11am into the night.
      Friday was cool and sunny and very pleasant.”

      Sounds like an Aussie winter. ! :-)

      22

      • #
        AndyG55

        For those that don’t realise it,

        London is some 8.6 degrees FURTHER from the Equator than Hobart is.

        22

    • #
      Annie

      It sounds much the same as when we were there! A perfectly normal English summer, especially down south. ‘Oops North’ was somewhat fresher.

      00

      • #
        Annie

        Our beautiful little Border Collie used to sit under trees and hope to catch a grey squirrel; unfortunately she never succeeded. They are bad pests imported from America and have caused huge losses of our native much prettier red squirrels.

        She, the dog, only had to hear the beginning of any word beginning with ‘squ’ to be fully alert and at the window.

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        Annie

        Oops! ‘Oop North’.

        Two ‘beginnings’ as well…bedtime methinks.

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    Another Ian

    Chiefio on economic smoke and mirrors

    “1.1% “Growth” isn’t…”

    https://chiefio.wordpress.com/2016/08/26/1-1-growth-isnt/

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      Another Ian

      Part of a response I got back by email

      “GDP seems to be measured differently by different countries . It is only an estimate of economic activity

      India even measures the value of dung ( maybe Aussie should do it for Canberra? and negative !) as it is an important economic activity”

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    David Maddison

    Video: No Certain Doom: On the Accuracy of Projected Global Average Surface Air Temperatures http://youtu.be/THg6vGGRpvA

    That is an excellent presentation. Unfortunately, alarmists, including their parliamentary “representatives” would not watch it and would not be educated enough to understand it.

    I especially liked the slide looking at structural coherence of the global cloud error showing that all the GCMs shared the same faulty theory (not surprising because all these models are based on each other) and further, how there were statistically shown to be systematic errors rather than random errors within all the models and how random errors would cancel each other but systematic errors keep accumulating through the models as they are progressed in time to the point that the results are physically ridiculous even at low year numbers.

    Also interesting is that not a single modeller publishes error bars – which would be so large as to make the projections meaningless.

    Most alarming at the end in question time it was revealed that none of the modelers seem to understand anything about the treatment of error in scientific models

    I also liked how all the climate models which are run on supercomputers could be accurately replaced with a simple linear y=mx+b type of model that could be computed on a pocket calculator. The supercomputer time should be used to run valid models in other areas of science, not climastrology.

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    David Maddison

    I recently made the following comments on social media with a typical fairly nasty CAGW believer. What do you think and please let me know of any improvements I or others could use in the future:

    You and your kind are the ones that are dead wrong and dangerously so. You and your kind are anti-science and anti-reason and the case for CAGW has NOT been proven according to the usual standards of the scientific method. It is a matter of political belief and scientific corruption due to the huge research funding available for promoting CAGW rather than scientific fact.

    1) None of the IPCC climate models have any predictive power whatsoever and none predicted the pause in a natural slight warming that occurred prior to 19 years ago and are therefore invalid. They also all have been shown to contain the same systematic errors

    2) Climate data is constantly being fraudulently manipulated “homogenised” with an undisclosed methodology to “prove” each subsequent year is the “hottest evvvuuuurrrr”. If homegenisation was a legitimate technique and appropriately applied you would expect an even spread of warming and cooling but it nearly always shows warming where there was none before.

    3) The load of anthropogenic CO2 in the atmosphere is less than 3.5%. It is a small amount of what is already a weak greenhouse gas.

    4) CO2 is at one of the naturally lowest points in geological history since 300 million years ago. It is at 400ppm now, plant life is extinguished if CO2 drops below 150ppm. The world has had CO2 as high as 7000ppm and the only consequence was much more prolific plant life.

    5) According to observable natural climate cycles we are heading toward a period of 30-50 yrs of significant cooling within about 10 years which will be disastrous because of reduced agricultural output.

    6) The former IPCC chairman admitted as per the quote I previously posted that it was about politics and wealth distribution via climate policy.

    7) Why was the name of your belief system changed from “global warming” to “climate change” for marketing reasons? Because it became impossible to keep up the lie even among looney leftists.

    8) You believers are under the delusion that climate is static and never changes. It is naturally always changing. E.g. Medieval warm period, Little Ice Age.

    9) None of the climastrologist’s predictions have come true. E.g. that by now there would be no arctic ice, lower Manhattan would be underwater or in Australia Flim-Flannery saying the dams would never fill thus causing the expenditure of billions on desal plants which now sit largely idle. The list goes on.

    As stated, the false belief in CAGW is a matter of political belief and all the corruption and fraud that modern politics entails and nothing whatsoever to do with science. CAGW believers need to 1) produce a single climate model that works 2) demonstrate CAGW globally with data sets that haven’t been fraudulently altered. If either of those things can be shown then all real scientists will believe your hypothesis.

    Until then stop promoting anti-science fraudulent garbage which is costing the world trillions.

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      Robber

      3) The load of anthropogenic CO2 in the atmosphere is less than 3.5%. Could be better worded, as the unknowing might assume that CO2 makes up 3.5% of our atmosphere.
      5) According to observable natural climate cycles we are heading toward a period of 30-50 yrs of significant cooling. Evidence?
      9) The list goes on. More hurricanes, kids in UK won’t know what snow is, Al Gore’s film predicting collapse of major ice sheet in Greenland or Antarctica raising sea levels by 20 feet, 100 million climate refugees.

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      bobl

      David your typical believer has an ideological attachment (moral) attachment to the meme, While many of the things you say are true it won’t change their high-n-mighty superiority complex. To shift a cult member you have to attack the moral underpinnings of the cult. Think Manson, they thought they were saving the planet too.

      So here are a few alternate facts to add to your list.

      1. So you think poor people in Africa should be denied the benefits of western civilisation (by withholding coal/nuke power) do you.

      2. Oh so you think we should tackle cyclones like Haiyan that demolished the Philippines by building wind mills in south Australia huh? I think it would be much better to build cyclone shelters in the Philippines.

      3. Frankly I think killing grannies each winter in the UK is disgusting, what if it was Your Granny?

      4. Surely you know that windmills need to be built on ridges near coastlines which are usually treed, because you have to raze 5 Ha per windmill to have efficient windmills the windmills never ever save the CO2 that the trees would have sunk making windmills CO2 Positive (add CO2 to the atmosphere).

      5. Surely you know that windmills can’t be built in cyclone areas.

      6. Surely you know that the reliable effective generation of Solar panels are just 1 Watt per square meter, meaning that making Victoria “sustainable” using solar requires around 44000 square kilometers paved over with solar panels? The amount of greenery paved over with solar panels would cause loss of CO2 sequestration causing solar panels to USE more CO2 than coal

      (Usually they retort with nonsense about building them in deserts)
      7. Surely you know you can’t build solar arrays and windmills in sandy deserts like Australia’s because the frequent dust storms scratch and damage them ruining gears and moving parts? Followed by I assume that you are going to be the bloke washing off that 44000 square km of solar panels each day wasting some 2000 Gigalitres of precious water in the process?

      8. In the years of the carbon tax, we saved so much CO2 and that if the whole world had a carbon tax as efficient as that one, then 1 degree of temperature reduction would cost over 400 Quadrillion dollars many times world GDP – IE we could not afford to reduce the temperature even 0.1 degree that way. You would be stupid to even try.

      That’s usually enough to either get them thinking about their own morality or diving for a lefty intellectual “Safe Space” like twitter

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        bobl

        Oh another great one

        Well I don’t think global warming should be given one red cent, until mankind has first wiped out Cancer, Ebola, Aids, Malaria, Measles, Hunger, Thirst, War, Drugs, Crime, Corruption and the UN – Oops repeating myself, I already said corruption.

        All of these things kill more people than AGW ever will.

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      Rick Will

      The only points that matter in this argument are:
      1. There is an assertion that AGW exists.
      2. This assertion is based on humans burning fossil fuel increase CO2 in the atmosphere.
      3. Climate models have been tuned during a period of rising global temperature so they give a positive correlation with temperature and when projected forward with rising CO2 the temperature also rises.
      4. The models are simply WRONG.

      I have a post at 25# that demonstrates how absurd one simple climate model is and I give the reason why this and all current climate models are wrong. Surrounding a high emissivity planet with a low emissivity radiative gas must cause the planet to cool – the reason is clearly explained. The only way the atmosphere could heat the planet is if it generates heat, which is not possible unless chemical or nuclear reactions are occurring in it. The University of Chicago model I link to in that post produces heat in the atmosphere so is an absurd outcome.

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    Another Ian

    A different ponder for the morning

    “I’ve complained a few times in a few places about one of the Nagging Bits about cellular function that just doesn’t fit with the idea we evolved in the ocean on earth. ”

    https://chiefio.wordpress.com/2016/08/26/life-k-from-a-nice-volcanic-mud-puddle/

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    handjive

    Hypocrites Ahoy!

    “Hypocrisy” is the price of admission in this battle.” Bill McKibben, founder of 350.org.

    Here is a list of the 10 biggest hypocrites:

    Who supports a price on carbon?

    - Barrack Obama
    - Angela Merkel
    - James Cameron
    - Bill McKibben
    - Catherine McKenna (Canada’s Minister fro environment and Climate Change)
    - Al Gore
    - Leonardo Dicaprio
    - Rex Tillerson (CEO of ExxonMobil)
    - Lindsey Graham (US Senator)
    - Robert Reich (Former US Labor Secretary)

    Bonus Hypocrite Video: Jack Black. One Man, on a quest, to save humanity …
    . . .
    If every person in favour of a carbon tax just went to their doctor for an assisted suicide note, the planet could be saved.

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      Rod Stuart

      There may be another explanation.
      The year was 1947. Some of you will recall that on July 8, 1947, a little more than 65 years ago, numerous witnesses claim that an Unidentified Flying Object, (UFO), with five aliens aboard, crashed onto a sheep and mule ranch just outside Roswell , New Mexico.

      This is a well-known incident that many say has long been covered-up by the U.S. Air Force, as well as other Federal Agencies and Organizations.

      However, what you may NOT know is that in the month of April, year 1948, nine months after the
      historic day, the following people were born:
      • Barrack Obama, Sr.
      • Albert A. Gore, Jr.
      • Hillary Rodham
      • William J. Clinton
      • John F. Kerry
      • Howard Dean
      • Nancy Pelosi
      • Dianne Feinstein
      • Charles E. Schumer
      • Barbara Boxer
      • Joe Biden
      This is the obvious consequence of aliens breeding with sheep and jack-asses.
      I truly hope this bit of information clears up a lot of things for you. It certainly did for me.
      And now you can stop wondering why they support the bill to help all Illegal Aliens.

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    Rod Stuart

    One of the reasons for junk science is error introduced in Microsoft Excel.
    It’s not Bill Gates’ fault, but that of the gomers using it.

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    This is one of my pet hates (from today’s Quadrant):

    As the polymath has a perpetual hunger and need to improve each of her own varied skills, she is inspired by outstanding specialist abilities in others. Any gifted monomath is a valuable resource for her to learn from.

    Why can’t writers use the term ‘they are/their’? I note that male writers often use the term ‘she’ when there is no reason for doing so other than PC. I could also take the wording to mean that the writer is implying that men cannot be polymaths. I suspect that may not be the case.

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      TdeF

      What on earth is a polymath? A smart parrot? A nodding galah? A large number of lorikeets?

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        A monomath is a stone-cold specialist, someone who has focus and skills in a particular subject or activity. A polymath might have generalised skills in many areas, or be a master in many fields.

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          TdeF

          Odd. Nothing to do with maths then. Polygamous, polyandry, polyglot and of course Polyfiller and polyunsaturated make a lot of sense. The maths part escapes me.

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        tom0mason

        ¯

        Polymath:
        The product of many long equations reacting over a catalyst.

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      There appear to be a few sexist thumbdowners, or perhaps misandrists, about. :)

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        Sceptical Sam

        They’re the Millenial boofheads who can’t comprehend why there was no trigger warning.

        Trigger Warning for Boofheads:

        There are no trigger warnings on this site.
        If you disagree just argue back.
        Red thumbs are for the illiterate.
        Welcome to the real world.

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    TdeF

    As it is unthreaded, I was sitting at the beach yesterday in Melbourne (Yes, silly). I have to say despite the alleged sudden and rapid rise of the oceans, in half a century I cannot see any difference. Not a skerrick, a smidgen.

    One local couple nearby received their insurance house policy renewal for $7,000 as they were in an area which would be flooded by global warming. They immediately reinsured with another company. Where is this rapid sea rise, which had Robyn Williams of the ABC declaring Sydney could be under 100 metres of water? After thirty years where is this Climate Change driven tsunami.

    Why in the last post was Dr. Will Steffen saying that the weather had been behaving ‘strangely’ and connecting disastrous weather events and bushfires with Climate Change was complex? Does anyone really believe Australia has changed climates, the seas have risen rapidly or that Antarctica has more or less ice than usual or care?

    After 20 years and no measurable change in average temperature since we changed all the thermometers to electronic, surely this amazing fantasy will cease. Or are we now in the position of having to subsidize the windmill manufacturers or lose the jobs? Finally, why are all the windmills in places where they are not needed? Why are we shutting coal fired electricity plants and gas turbines? Who are we saving by crippling our country and shutting manufacturing? If we are setting an example for the third world, of what? Self indulgent nonsense?

    The only solution is to sell the ABC/SBS monolith. This illegally mammoth media is controlled by the Green party. Balance the budget by removing $1.5Billion in useless cost. We can get the weather from the internet/BOM, the programs from the BBC (including Peppa Pig) and we do not have to pay for Green party propaganda posing as current affairs.

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      Robert Rosicka

      Our climate has been changing for Millenia from droughts to flooding rains as the saying goes , our continent is also moving north east at a pace that even the experts were amazed at .
      So natural climate variation and an increasing northward shift will determine our weather not if you drive a Prius or a big fuel guzzling 4wd or obtain your electricity from renewables or coal .

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      Komrade Kuma

      T,

      “Dr. Will Steffen saying that the weather had been behaving ‘strangely’”

      Now that really is the pot calling the kettle black.

      Dr Steffenlove is about one of the strangest of strange ones when it comes to CAGW, up there with Tim Flam and Ove Hoegh-Guldberg in the ‘deadly climate change will destroy us all’ camp.

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      ABC monolith, yes…C’mon Mr Turnbull, show yr mettle by cutting
      the budget deficit. Close down the ABC and cut them Bureaucrats’
      inflated salaries and retirement benefits.

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      Olaf Koenders

      All those AGW crybabies that have made failed predictions (far too many to list) should have them engraved on their tombstones as a warning to others that their stupidity doesn’t die with them.

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      ghl

      TDef, what the Libs haven’t worked out is that you don’t plan, discuss or focus group shutting down the ABC.SBS juggernaught, you just shut it down tonight, due to a budget emergency, and the fact that they have ignored their charter for decades. Who will complain, ch9 or ch10? The AGE will of course, but can they give you a harder time than they are already.
      Let Tony Jones launch Q&A Pty Ltd on the web, he may become a media billionaire. Perhaps.
      There would be a month of marches, but it would be all over by the next election.
      If their audience is 10% of the population, they cost closer to $2 a day than 8c. Poor value.

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        TdeF

        Agreed. If you can shut the live cattle trade with a phone call after a single deceitful ABC program, call a Royal Commission after a single deceitful program, shut the dog racing industry after a single report with the evidence sourced overseas, you can shut the ABC. Pending a sale. Pay people to do nothing until it is sold. Who would care? Really, who would care?

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    ianl8888

    An erudite, if self-evident, description of various contemporary issues:

    http://principia-scientific.org/new-book-scholar-peels-back-layers-deception-global-warming/?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+psintl+%28Principia+Scientific+Intl+-+Current+News%29

    Cassandra’s view, however, is that appealing to people of “faith and conscience” as an act of optimism to counteract the reversal of the Rennaisance is Pollyanna at her most naive. Certainly, the committed environmental advocates do not regard such appeals as useful – rather, they know that constantly scaring the bejesus out of the horses is far more effective.

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    pat

    25 Aug: Bloomberg: Eric Newcomer: Uber Loses at Least $1.2 Billion in First Half of 2016
    Subsidies for Uber’s drivers are responsible for the majority of the company’s losses globally, Gupta told investors…
    “You won’t find too many technology companies that could lose this much money, this quickly,” said Aswath Damodaran, a business professor at New York University who has written skeptically of Uber’s astronomical valuation on his blog. “For a private business to raise as much capital as Uber has been able to is unprecedented.”…
    In July, it cut a deal with its largest global competitor, Chinese ride-hailing behemoth Didi Chuxing, washing its hands of its massive losses in that country…
    Uber lost at least $2 billion in two years in China, people familiar with the matter told Bloomberg in July…
    Uber’s backers range from venture capital firms like Benchmark Capital to the investment bank Goldman Sachs. Altogether, Uber has raised more than $16 billion in cash and debt. Its latest valuation is a whopping $69 billion…
    ***The company has effectively redistributed at least $1 billion to the Chinese working class in the form of heavy subsidies to drivers there…
    http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2016-08-25/uber-loses-at-least-1-2-billion-in-first-half-of-2016

    29 July: CNN: Sophia Yan: 530,000 steel and coal workers are now driving for China’s Uber rival
    In reality, he’s a former steelworker — one of an estimated 1.8 million people losing their jobs as China takes the knife to its bloated steel and coal producers…
    For workers like Luo, China’s economic transition means scrambling for new ways to make ends meet. After embarking on an initial job search, he tried his hand at China’s volatile stock market, but wasn’t able to make much…
    Didi, which recently received a $1 billion investment from Apple and has millions of drivers across China, offers training courses tailored to laid-off workers and military veterans…
    http://money.cnn.com/2016/07/29/news/economy/china-steel-economy-transition/

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    Peter C

    Port Phillip Bay should be an ideal spot for monitoring sea level rise because the narrow entrance to a large bay flattens out most of the tidal variation.

    So where are the long term records? We had a tide gauge at Williamstown back in the 1880′s and likely even earlier, yet the current tidal records only start in 1966.

    Taking a look at the record since 1966 at Williamstown shows a slight rise in water level of about 10cm from 1966-1976. The sea level has been static since then.
    http://www.bom.gov.au/ntc/IDO70000/IDO70000_60780_SLI.shtml

    The page has a graph function which shows the rise more clearly than the table of data.

    So the rising sea level story is completely busted by the Williamstown tide guage

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    Analitik

    Solar-Powered Apartment Tower Proposed for Melbourne – Sol Invictus Tower
    Australia’s “first substantially off-the-grid, green-energy generating residential tower.”

    Anyone else seen this piece of crap?

    “The objective will be to have a complete off-the-grid building,” Brook shared. “That’s probably somewhat over-ambitious, but the objective is to get as far as we can down that road.” To do so, high-tech solar materials will be sourced from China, wind turbines will be fitted on the roof, glass will be double-glazed, a battery storage system will service the tower’s 520 apartments, and low-energy LED lighting will be installed throughout.

    The façade is expected to house about 3,000 square meters of panels, with an extra 300 square meters on the roof. The building’s current design would provide more than 50 percent of its base load power. Brook said that in the two years since the firm first started designing the tower, the solar technology it intended to use had advanced rapidly. He expects a similar leap over the next two years before construction begins

    http://www.ctbuh.org//News/GlobalTallNews/tabid/4810/Article/4198/language/en-US/view.aspx

    I wonder how the turbines will coexist with the PV on the roof? And imagine the roof mountings!!

    The cost of the apartments in this building should be laughable. Yet more architectural nonsense

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      Olaf Koenders

      How much will the panels cost in 25 years when they need to be replaced, not to mention their maintenance during that time?

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      • #

        There has never been ‘any’ so called ‘renewable’ power source that has produced sufficient power to create, operate, maintain, and dispose of itself!
        All the best! -will-

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        bobl

        25 years, don’t make me laugh – probably 8 or util the next major hail storm and thats not counting the batteries. Wouldn’t like the see the body corporate fees there !

        Also 3000 square meters of panels generates a grid equivalent of just 15 KW of power on a 24 hour 99% reliable basis. I’d just love to see a tower making do with this little power. I say disconnect it from the grid, and let them be truly grid independent.

        If you live there though, don’t bother sending me an invitation to visit any time in winter, Melbourne winters aren’t exactly noted for their sunny skies. That tower will be like North Korea for most of winter – lights out – of course only until one of the lithium battery packs goes up in flames and we find out just how much stored energy lives within a Melbourne Residential tower. It’ll be nice and bright then.

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      Graeme No.3

      I think that “off the planet” would be a better description.

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      David Maddison

      I bet the only way they can use a small enough amount of power to even approach self-sufficiency is to have micro-size apartments not much bigger than a bed.

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    Analitik

    18C hits Australia Day!

    Says Fremantle mayor, Brad Pettitt

    There has been a growing movement that January 26 is increasingly becoming a day that is ‘not for all Australians’. For many Aboriginal Australians it is indeed a day of sadness and dispossession.

    This does not just refer to indigenous involvement but the involvement of many other Australians who feel increasingly uncomfortable with the date and what it represents.

    The city has received significant feedback supporting the idea of reimagining our Australia Day celebrations from both Aboriginal and non-Aboriginal people.

    Fremantle cancels Australia Day fireworks out of respect of indigenous Australians

    So I guess anyone who dares celebrate Australia Day is a divisive, dispossessing racist.

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    pat

    greenies thrown under the bus by former Messiah!

    26 Aug: RenewEconomy: Giles Parkinson: John Hewson pushes “trillion dollar” opportunity in “refined” coal
    Former Liberal Party leader and climate campaigner John Hewson has produced another shock to environmental activists, promoting a decades-old and never used coal technology that he says could extend the life of the vast brown coal resources in Victoria’s Latrobe Valley…
    According to the Voices of the Valley public group, Hewson had been expected to talk about the future beyond coal, but instead gave a sales pitch for a new technology that could exploit the Latrobe Valley’s vast coal resources…
    The fuel Hewson is promoting is called “corethane.” A video (LINK) posted by one of Hewson’s business associates, Phil Hall, claims etc…
    It is not the first time that Hewson and his business partners have courted controversy in recent months. In Adelaide in May, Hewson promoted a new solar tower and storage technology using graphite, and developed by a company he now chairs, Solastor Australia…
    Momentum Refining, apparently a sister company to Momentum Energy and Resources, which is a joint owner in Solastor Australia, is promoting the corethane technology…
    (The author of the video, Phil Hall, is a director of Solastor Australia. Hewson is the executive chairman)…
    It got an immediate response on Twitter, which prompted Hewson to tell the audience that “there must be greenies in the room.”…
    ***There was concern that the proposal was getting support from some business groups in the area, and some conservative members of the local council…
    Another attendee, Dan Caffrey, of the Latrobe Valley Sustainability Group, said: “I represent a group of very disappointed people. It felt like we were being mugged by the Messiah.”
    http://reneweconomy.com.au/2016/john-hewson-pushes-trillion-dollar-opportunity-in-refined-coal-75739

    no matter which side of politics, the consumer will ultimately pay the price:

    26 Aug: Toronto Sun: Ontario cap-and-trade plan a Frankenstein monster
    by BEN EISEN AND KENNETH GREEN
    (Eisen and Green are analysts with the Fraser Institute)
    A recent opinion column from the left-leaning Brookings Institution in the U.S. observes (based on the vast laboratory that is California) that “cap-and-trade” is a flawed strategy for reducing carbon emissions.
    Unfortunately, this policy lies at the heart of Ontario’s recently unveiled climate change strategy…
    According to the Brookings authors, such schemes are increasingly “complex, subject to manipulation and giveaways, and … an engine for the expansion of government.”
    In Ontario, the government at Queen’s Park has compounded the confusion by not specifying in detail how the initial tranche of permits will be allocated.
    Historically, emission credits have been allocated politically, giving governments vast powers to favour industries and activities they like, and punish those they don’t.
    ***A second problem with Ontario’s plan is that it will take even more money away from already heavily-taxed consumers and businesses…
    Ontario won’t give all the revenue back to taxpayers, but will instead fund pet projects, including initiatives to “support cycling and walking.”…
    For example, the government plans to subsidize electric vehicles up to $14,000 per car…
    http://www.torontosun.com/2016/08/26/ontario-cap-and-trade-plan-a-frankenstein-monster

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    Rod Stuart

    Be afraid. BE VERY AFRAID!
    This is a “scholarly” paper delivered at JACKSON HOLE this week.
    This is part and parcel of the direction Christiana Figueres would have the world take.

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    • #

      Is that Christiana Figueres just the ass end of that Naomi O character that Brad Keyes thinks is almost as good to make fun of, as Stephen L et al? :-)

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      Annie

      I tried to read it…difficult while still feeling some jetlag! Who the heck do some of these people think they are?

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        Analitik

        It looks like Janet Yellin is using this same philosophy for the US Federal Reserve to guide the US economy. It’s more of the “this time it’s different” and “we have new tools” mantra.

        http://www.federalreserve.gov/newsevents/speech/yellen20160826a.htm

        Trump had better win in November else the US is doomed and will take most of the world down with it.

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          Analitik

          BTW, notice how the manipulations and shenanigans start with abandonment of the gold standard (section 2A of Rod’s link).
          And the justification for fiat economies?

          tied the price level directly to the gold price of goods. A rise (fall) in the gold price of goods would cause inflation (deflation).

          Gosh! So if the benchmark commodity got more expensive, prices would rise and vice versa! How inconvenient that a benchmark would affect overall pricing!!!

          I’ll repeat that a return to the gold standard (or some other but similar commodity) is needed precisely to return meaning to global currencies and stop the games being played by governments and central banks.

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            “BTW, notice how the manipulations and shenanigans start with abandonment of the gold standard (section 2A of Rod’s link).”

            My standard has always been the human skill and effort required to produce something of value to every other human. For example one pair of fine hand made horsehide men’s dress shoes. In the past 100 years the US fiat price of ‘pair of shoe’ has increased by a factor of 45 times yet the inherent value of ‘pair of shoe’ has not changed whatsoever!
            All the best! -will-

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    pat

    Rod Stuart -

    negative interest rates, abolition of paper currency – what’s not to like? lol.

    meanwhile:

    27 Aug: ShanghaiDaily: Xinhua: UN chief praises China’s G20 summit leadership
    UN Secretary-General Ban Ki-moon on Friday spoke highly of the Chinese leadership in focusing the upcoming summit of the Group of 20 (G20) on promoting ***green growth and bolstering the presence of developing countries.
    “I commend China for steering the G20 summit this year in such a successful way leading the G20 towards an action agenda that will come in full support of the 2030 Agenda for Sustainable Development and the Paris Agreement on Climate Change,” the secretary-general said in an interview with several UN-based Chinese media outlets.
    “For the first time in the history of the G20, the Chinese leadership is … aligning the action agenda, the Sustainable Development Goals and the climate change agreement, in their action agenda of the G20,” Ban said.
    “This is the first time that the G20 leaders are gathering to discuss the Sustainable Development Goals and climate change, (and) how we implement them in parallel,” he added…
    “The theme of the G20 summit in Hangzhou reflects the very spirit of the 2030 Development Agenda.”…
    “I hope that the G20 leaders will really address these global governance issues. The United Nations will be fully joining,” he said, adding that China has been showing leadership, and is leading by example…
    Ban said that they are working very hard to ensure the climate change agreement will take effect at an early date…
    http://www.shanghaidaily.com/nation/UN-chief-praises-Chinas-G20-summit-leadership/shdaily.shtml

    27 Aug: EastAsiaForum: Wang Wen: What to expect from China’s G20 leadership
    (Wang Wen is Executive Dean, Chongyang Institute for Financial Studies, Renmin University of China)
    The G20 has become the key vehicle for implementing and promoting global economic governance…
    http://www.eastasiaforum.org/2016/08/27/what-to-expect-from-chinas-g20-leadership/

    27 Aug: China.org: Kim Sangsoon: China’s role in the G20 and China-ROK cooperation
    (Kim Sangsoon is a senior researcher at the Charhar Institute and the president of the Korea-based East Asia Peace Research Association. The article was translated by Zhang Lulu. Its original unabridged version was published in Chinese)
    China can institutionalize the following eight global governance issues, namely, economic and trade governance, financial governance, green governance (including environment and climate change), energy governance, conventional security issues, unconventional security issues (terrorism and epidemics), hot issues (e.g., the Brexit’s impact on the world economy), and global cooperation programs (including dovetailing the strategies of various countries, for instance, China’s “Belt and Road” initiative and South Korea’s Eurasia Initiative)…
    First, the G20 summit needs to be responsible for the top-level design of global economic governance…
    http://www.china.org.cn/opinion/2016-08/27/content_39173487.htm

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      Rod Stuart

      That spunky, funky, skunky little monkey, Bunky Moon is going full bore on sustainability before his fuse burns out.

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      ianl8888

      … negative interest rates, abolition of paper currency

      Actually, the actions will be in the reverse order, ie. first, no more paper currency, then negative interest rates.

      Why ? It’s a very powerful way of stealing prudent people’s savings to pay off central bank/govt debt. To make this theft impregnable, the current ability to remove large dollops of savings as cash must first be blocked. Small notes, $10/$20, will be allowed us for small services. We already have Cyprus and Greece as models, and Japan has demonstrated negative interest rates for over two years now.

      The private ownership of property is being reversed, as are the gains from Renaissance times (eg. the ACT has re-imposed blasphemy law … we are grateful that being burnt at the stake remains unlawful, aren’t we ?)

      There is a madness stalking the zitgeist, which Cassandra finds quite worrying.

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    Retired Now

    I need a little help with spiking some of my daughter’s greenie arguments.

    Firstly she insists that the media – Rupert Murdoch is the prime one responsible, but ALL media are steadfastly right wing and destructive of sustainable ideas and policies – it was the right wing MSM conspiracy to destroy the gains that were previously made under the Labor government. This was so gobsmackingly ridiculous that I was floored and didn’t know what to say. When I indicated that the MSM was so left wing as to be incomprehensible to me, she just shook her head – how could I be so ignorant?

    Secondly she goes on about about the dredging of the reef to make the passage deep enough to take the ships that will take coal from some new mine in Queensland – with concomitant destruction of the wonderful ecology of the area.

    Thirdly she says that South Australians are starting to pay the true cost of energy with its clean energy policies – and that all other electricity sources, other than wind and solar, have “externalised their costs” through the “tragedy of the commons” and than noone using coal fired power is paying the “true” cost to produce and clean up afterwards.

    I really don’t intend to have any full on conversations with her about this as she gets very angry very quickly, but I do need the occasional quick response in a few appropriate words so she knows there is an alternative conversation to be had. Nothing will change till several years after she finishes her sustainability degree – she has to believe the “right things” till she gets her piece of paper.

    So any quick short responses to these ideas would be appreciated.

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      Analitik

      Just ask her of an example of a nation/state/whatever where the “true” cost of energy is being paid. Anything she comes up with will be so full of holes that it will be easy to show that the alternative to fossil fuel/nuclear is subsistence level societies (multiple due to vastly decreased transport)

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      Lewis P Buckingham

      You cannot win this one, why try.
      If you happen to use the same computer occasionally start putting up graphs that are easily understandable on the screen, say global sea level change, without any increase in acceleration in rise, ie the rate of change has not changed, despite huge amounts of CO2 going into the atmosphere now relative to 100 years ago.
      No doubt she will hear that in fact we caused the earlier sea level rise after the little ice age.
      Put up a graph showing the last 400000 years of temperature.
      Its downhill with bumps, too easy.At best we are flattening out.
      Eventually put up a chart of model output vs temperature.
      Be careful here, as the latest models will change the past temperature anyway, to smooth things out.
      The big problem in debate is the lack of fixed goalposts.
      The young have not heard all the predictions, so they can’t be all that skeptical.
      Its a whole new generation to inculcate.
      So they believe the latest predictions.
      When she reaches 26 years and notices things are not as predicted she may change.
      My best success is to explain scientific method, data, hypothesis,testing, true false.
      The CO2 hypothesis must end up with accelerating positive feedback temperature, a tropical high altitude hotspot 4x temp rise of the surface, increasing water vapour amplifying greenhouse gases and a rising lower night time temperature particularly in desert areas according to my understanding.
      If all this happens the theory is right.
      The theory has ended in a whimper, not a bang, it has not happened.
      Eventually someone in power, who realises we can’t afford to shut down our coal fired power stations and stop sending our coal to China, India and Korea, not to mention LNG to Japan,will have another look at this theory.
      My attitude is to work on the things in my short life that I may and leave the rest to providence.
      But that’s always the case anyway.

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      el gordo

      ‘… she gets very angry very quickly…’

      They are all that way, its not unique, so many people have been brainwashed it isn’t funny.

      When asked my opinion I say do you know anything about the science? Nobody speaks, so I repeat ‘science is my forte and I’ll take questions without notice.’ Crickets….

      Of course if you’re in the mood for an argument you could say CO2 didn’t cause the warming of last century and global cooling has begun.

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      Lewis P Buckingham

      This is what I have on my computer as it opens.
      http://iri.columbia.edu/wp-content/uploads/2016/08/figure4.gif

      It does not prove anything, just shows that the news that always mentions heat is confounded by other reports that are not given on MSM.

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      tom0mason

      Retired Now,

      Use Joanne Nova’s simple guide at http://jonova.s3.amazonaws.com/sh1/the_skeptics_handbook_2-3_lq.pdf

      Printout for reference http://joannenova.com.au/2012/10/man-made-global-warming-disproved/

      Find out her source of media being right-wing. If there is another publication, web site, TV program, investigate them!
      If it is just her friends ‘know all about this’ ask her how they know. You need to find out who he gets her info from.

      Otherwise keep it simple. The more everyday language and ideas you use the better it will sow seeds of doubt in her religious belief.
      Little things to try –

      1. Just to see how good her basic understand is, make this offer –
      Show her $100 dollars (preferrably in small denominations and some coins), and say that represent the 100% of atmosphere.
      Simple $100 = 100%!
      Now ask her how much of that $100 represents the CO2 level in our atmosphere. Adding that if she gets it correct you’ll give her that amount of money (rounded to the nearest cent), if she gets it wrong she owes you $10. The answer is 4¢ rounded to the nearest cent. So, at worst you lose 4¢ at best you gain $10.

      2. Insist that she can not talk on the subject without reading and understanding at least 2 scientific papers on the same subject.
      If any proposed paper offers a climate model as its cornerstone of evidence point out that the models are –
      a. Proven inaccurate by their projection of future climate.
      b. Require periodic retuning to get them back in line with reality, however such tweaks only last 2-3 years maximum before the projection are wildly out.
      c. No model has accurately hindcast the climate without a lot of retweaking.
      Therefore there validity is questionable at best, nonsense at worst.

      3. Do a Practical Test.
      Look up Professor Woods famous greenhouse experiment and attempt to replicate it. It will prove to yourself that CO2 can not warm the atmosphere. Look here to start (http://principia-scientific.org/the-famous-wood-s-experiment-fully-explained/) but think of how you can do it for yourself with minimal effort — hint a CO2 fire extinguisher is handy source of dry CO2.
      It is not that difficult, or expensive. Remember you do not have to be fancy just methodical.

      Renewable energy.
      Look-up on the internet a good electricity power monitoring site, one that breaks out the power generated from each source. Coal, gas, oil, wind and solar. Find one that covers your local areas power requirement, and find one for her ‘pet’ location. Indicate that for any nameplate number the power company gives for a ‘renewable’ plant it will deliver less than 20% because ‘newables’ do not run on a constant source of power. (Look-up TonyfromOz site)
      From an electricity monitoring website indicate to her the days with no ‘renewable’ power. Ask her what she would give-up, to help so that less power is needed, allowing ‘renewables’ to be more viable. Suggest the TV, phone, computer, and fridge.

      Point out using figures from monitoring station, that windfarms and solar can not supply enough power reliably enough to fulfill even the most basic needs of a few domestic consumers. For hospitals, supermarkets, and industry it is a non-starter. Hammer this point constantly or until you can stand no more.
      Point out that it is impossible to manufacture a wind-turbines from the output from windfarms, and it’s similar for solar cells. Modern life requires concentrated amounts of reliable power 24/7 without this life will be like 300 years ago at the best.

      Coal.
      What is the problem? There is currently about 400 years of known exploitable reserves available at the current rate of consumption. I’m very sure more will be found.

      If you have done the Professor Wood’s experiment you know that there is no problem with CO2.

      Otherwise good luck.

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      tom0mason

      Look up TonyfromOz site!

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      bobl

      You need to show how immoral her position is, see my comments up page for some good arguments, personalise it, my most successful are

      Is it ok for YOUR granny to die because she can’t afford heating or cooling like many other peoples grannies have died from high energy prices?

      There are 3.5 Billion people on earth who are so far less fortunate than you that they have NO access to electricity, and you think we should deny all of them them the same energy that makes your life so safe and comfy.

      Global warming policies are SOOO! bad that they will just about assure that the children of YOUR generation will be the first in 150 years that will be worse off than their parents.

      Gillard’s tax performed so badly (Around $5000 per tonne)that if the world followed Gillard Carbon Tax example cooling the planet by 1 degree would cost 400 Quadrillion dollars over the next 100 years hundreds of times world GDP (which is around 50 Trillion IIRC).

      I put people first, Once Mankind has beaten Cancer, Aids, Ebola, Malaria, Cholera, Hapatitis, Leprosy, Polio, Yellow fever, and anything else that kills people, defeated all war, there is no hunger or thirst anywhere in the world, Crime, drugs, corruption and other human infestations are all gone, then I might think about paying to reduce temperature by a tenth of a degree in 100 years (but don’t count on it)

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      Rereke Whakaaro

      She is sort of correct in saying that, “… no one using coal fired power is paying the “true” cost to produce and clean up afterwards.”

      But similarly, nobody using windmill generated power is paying the “true” cost either.

      Likewise, solar panels require the mining of materials that are considerably more toxic than coal. The fact that they are mined in China only hides that fact, but does not nullify it.

      Finally, wind and solar power are only intermittent sources of energy, so they need battery backup, which comes from lithium, which is also mined in China.

      If she wants to think Globally, and act Locally, then she needs to take in the bigger picture, and look at the by-products and waste, created by the manufacturing processes involved in the production of “renewable resources”.

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        ianl8888

        … they need battery backup

        Completely inadequate for normal, civilised living. The questions posed are: “What appliances are you routinely running off your Tesla wall ? How is your Tesla wall re-charged when the sun is cloud-covered and the wind has dropped ? Are you capable with convertors, inverters and AC/DC manipulation ? Which mini-climate area do you live and work in ? Do you use high-rise buildings with their legislated ventilation by air conditioning ? How much did all this cost upfront ?”

        It’s disastrous when you start repeating the propaganda. Whenever I’ve asked a smug, boastful, missionary hipster these questions, the Sounds of Silence echo noiselessly through the air – that is, they refuse point-blank to answer.

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      bobl

      You allowed your Daughter to do a “Sustainability” degree, what sort of Father are you… I spiked my daughters attempts to do airy-fairy degrees with no recognisable job at the end of it real quick!

      Even so getting a decent job is exceedingly difficult, couldn’t she do math or science or business instead?

      BTW no offense intended I am just poking fun really, but some advice for new fathers reading here, when your Daughter wants to do a degree in advanced basket weaving or foot massage, or “Sustainability” – say no! You may not get away with it, but at least your conscience will be clear.

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      Retired now, when I sit next to a Greenie on a plane, I tell them I used to be a Green — until I realized it wasn’t helping the poor or the environment. I became very suspicious of the way the Green movement had been captured by big-business. I ask them if they are aware the biggest lobbyists for carbon markets are the big banks who stand to make billions from carbon trading. Smart greens are growing aware that the carbon markets are being pushed by HSBC, Deutsche Bank, Goldman Sachs and JP Morgan. This is talking her language. The big bankers are using naive greens to push their agenda. Global Carbon markets are forecast to be the largest commodity markets in the world — worth $2 Trillion a year.

      The smart green movement — who are really concerned about the poor and the environment — have become skeptics (apart from myself, there’s people like Patrick Moore, Greenpeace, David Bellamy, Botanist, Dennis Rancourt, Professor David Noble)

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        Rod Stuart

        Yes, INTELLIGENT greens are few and far between.
        As you say, they are the same as all of us, who have a legitimate concern for the real dangers to nature and the Third World.
        Unfortunately, the latest re-shuffle by the Greens Party Dear Leader here in Australia shows anything BUT intelligence.

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        Retired Now

        Thanks all. I was really just looking for simple one liners – not a full discussion document!

        For the record my daughter is 46! And captured, for the moment by the left – necessarily so to get a degree. She is really only interested in sustainable housing – i.e. lowish cost, easily maintained, low cost to run in heat and cold. As regards the left bias, our family has been socialist down one line of the family since prior to Lloyd George – my great grandfather worked with George on his political campaigns to bring in the aged pension and ameliorate some of the worst outcomes of industrialisation. My sister and I broke the mold when we were closely involved with the consequences of New Zealand’s socialist economic collapse in 1984 with the subsequent “restructuring”. My daughter attributes the problems she experienced in her teenage years to “rampant individualism” and “horrendous right wing policies” of the time not the socialist causes of the need to restructure. I understand where she is coming from. I’m just not articulate enough to dialogue with an angry leftie when I understand her point of view. So all ideas gratefully received.

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    Rick Will

    The cornerstone of AGW is the climate models. The climate models are wrong but finding the fundamental error is not that easy.

    What I have determined is that all models rely on atmospheres creating energy, which is contrary to the first law of thermodynamics. The simplest way to understand this is by applying Plank’s radiation equation to radiant energy from the sun arriving at earth and then being transmitted from the earth. Plank’s equation shows us that for all spectral lines the intensity at any frequency is always higher for a higher temperature emitter. The linked chart shows that result:
    https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/f/ff/BlackbodySpectrum_loglog_150dpi_en.png/800px-BlackbodySpectrum_loglog_150dpi_en.png
    To restate, intensity level at any wavelength is always lower for the lower temperature source. So the intensity curve for a given temperature will always be fully enveloped by the curve at a higher temperature.

    Taking this further considering a solid sphere in space surrounded by a radiative gas and receiving energy from a high temperature source. For the case where the emissivity of the sphere is higher than the emissivity of the gas the temperature of the gas will be lower than the sphere so the gas will absorb more energy coming in from the high temperature source than the amount of energy absorbed that is reradiated from the sphere meaning the sphere will be cooler with the gas present than without the gas as the gas contributes to a net reduction in radiant flux.

    I tested this concept with a simple climate model that purports to give Earth’s energy balance:
    http://climatemodels.uchicago.edu/rrtm/
    It is quite easy to observe that it creates energy. Leave the incoming radiation at 1360; choose the ocean surface to give albedo of 0.1: set CO2 at 400ppm and all other values to zero except temperature which is set to 267 to give near equilibrium of 1.4W/sq.m imbalance. With these settings you will see the atmosphere in this model creates about 40W/sq.m; with 340 arriving at TOA and about 380 arriving at ground level. This is an absurd result. I wonder about the credibility of an institution that would make such a silly model publicly available. If you are in a debate with anyone who has the slightest appreciation of thermodynamics, or even common sense, then this model is a good example of how absurd climate modelling is.

    My understanding is that even the most complex climate models really focus on the OLR and the easily observed absorption bands of radiative gasses in that spectra but take bulk parameters for the incoming radiation to the surface without considering how the radiative gases contribute to the atmospheric absorption and retransmission at particular frequencies in that spectra.

    I also question the equilibrium temperature that the rrtm model requires to balance as I get a surface temperature of 285K with emissivity set at 0.9 in the Stefan-Boltzman equation and no absorbing atmosphere!

    The MODTRAN atmospheric model is also fun to play with at its limits:
    If all the gases are set to zero the radiated power is 414.2W/sq.m. Then raising the CO2 level by a whole 1ppm to 1ppm reduces radiative power to 407.6W/sq.m. That means the surface would need to increase in temperature by 1.17C to re-establish equilibrium. Has CO2 really got that much muscle in Earth’s climate system.

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    Rocky

    https://wattsupwiththat.com/2016/08/27/feet-of-clay-the-official-errors-that-exaggerated-global-warming/

    Any chance of a non science explanation. I trust Mockton as he seems to be smart person and honest.

    I understand the accumulative effect of errors.

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    Just for your info:
    The NY Times is advertising for a climate change editor. Anyone here in OZ want to apply? I have my favorites, but they will have to be in need of a job, and they may have to lie on their application to get the job…
    http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2016/jobs/nyt-climate-change-editor.html

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    pat

    followup to Rod Stuart’s comment #22 on Jackson Hole:

    re the writer: Dr. Rogoff is Thomas D. Cabot Professor of Public Policy at Harvard University and the former chief economist of the International Monetary Fund. This essay is adapted from his new book, “The Curse of Cash,” which will be published in September by Princeton University Press.

    25 Aug: WSJ: Kenneth S. Rogoff: The Sinister Side of Cash
    Paper money fuels corruption, terrorism, tax evasion and illegal immigration—so the U.S. should get rid of the $100 bill and other large notes
    There is little debate among law-enforcement agencies that paper currency, especially large notes such as the U.S. $100 bill, facilitates crime: racketeering, extortion, money laundering, drug and human trafficking, the corruption of public officials, not to mention terrorism…
    Of the more than $4,200 in cash that is circulating outside financial institutions for every man, woman and child in the U.S., almost 80% of it is in $100 bills. In turn, $50 and $20 bills would also be phased out, though $10s, $5s and $1s would be kept indefinitely. Today these smaller bills constitute just 3% of the value of the currency supply…
    In principle, cutting interest rates below zero ought to stimulate consumption and investment in the same way as normal monetary policy, by encouraging borrowing. Unfortunately, the existence of cash gums up the works…
    Take cash away, however, or make the cost of hoarding high enough, and central banks would be free to drive rates as deep into negative territory as they needed in a severe recession…READ ALL
    http://www.wsj.com/articles/the-sinister-side-of-cash-1472137692

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    el gordo

    The Chinese Communist Party is going to cut the people’s meat consumption by half to extend their lives and presumably save the planet at the same time.

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/jun/20/chinas-meat-consumption-climate-change

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    Salome

    Monday morning and the ABC reports that climate change could cause havoc to coffee production: http://www.abc.net.au/news/2016-08-29/climate-change-could-halve-coffee-production-by-2050-study-says/7793752
    Am I right in concluding that if it’s too hot, dry, wet or whatever to grow coffee in one place, somebody should try growing it somewhere cooler, wetter, dryer or less whatever?

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      Rod Stuart

      It might well be correct.
      The ABC of course would equate “climate change” with that other imaginary phenomenon called “Global Warming”.
      However, a climate, which is by definition regional, might certainly change in, for instance, Kona Hawaii, or Brazil.
      However, that change could well be due to global cooling, in which the coffee plantations will need to be established in warmer climes.
      Then again, the rabid Left might well have banned coffee by 2050, which is a better bet than any warming taking place.
      The Greens of course would, given half a chance, rip up all the coffee plantations in order to plant bio-fuel palm trees, and convert all the Starbucks into places to worship Gaia.
      AS Nils Bohr put it, predictions are difficult, especially when they involve the future.

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    Joseph E Postma says: 2016/08/10 at 2:55 PM

    “Gee whiz, look at this paper by Chris Monckton from September 2007. Some excerpts:”

    (” Real-world temperatures in the upper atmosphere have been measured with balloons since at least the 1960’s and with microwave satellite sensors since 1979. However, the Hadley Centre’s plot of real-world radiosonde observations does not demonstrate the “global warming hot-spot” at all. The predicted phenomenon is startlingly and entirely absent from the observational record.
    Applying Occam’s Razor, the simplest explanation for the discrepancy between theoretical modeling and realworld observation is that the models on which the case for alarm about climate change are based are very substantially overestimating the effect of anthropogenic greenhouse warming on global temperatures. “)

    “No Chris…Occam’s Razor would state that the simplest explanation why something which is purported to exist, yet can not be found, is because the thing doesn’t exist at all!”

    Correct Joseph! While it is likely that atmospheric CO2 levels may have some ‘wee’ probability of affecting Earth’s surface temperature, There remains no known method of causation that has ever had even attempted verification. Such always remains “trust me I am academic skyintist”, and you rat boy, know nothing!!

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    Has anyone noticed the supreme desire of earthlings to know? Yet it is only the ‘do not know’ that perpetuates such desire to know. Perhaps there exists some ‘kinda maybe’ that may allow both ‘gasing starward’and ‘throwing up’ on everything to co exist! O woha are we1

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