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Clexit-coming? President of Philippines says Paris climate deal is stupid nonsense. Wants to kick someone.

Let’s not mince words. The new President of the Philippines, Jose Duterte, says he won’t sign or honor the “stupid” Paris deal and he wanted to kick the ambassador who asked.

Here’s a memorable moment in international diplomacy:

“You are trying to stifle us,” Duterte said on Monday in widely reported comments. “That’s stupid, I will not honour that. You signed … That was not my signature.”

Duterte said: “I’m mad at this ambassador. I want to kick him,” adding that limits on carbon emissions for the Philippines were “nonsense”.

“You who have reached your peak and along with it spewed a lot of contaminants, emissions … Good for you. We are here, we have not reached the age of industrialisation. We are on our way to it.”

This is a bit of a bummer for the big-government collective. The Philippines has 100 million people and is the 12th biggest country on Earth population-wise.

Brexit, India and the Philippines smell like “Clexit”

The Trump factor looms too. Sensing a tidal wave, the UN promptly issued a call for everyone to hurry up.

The United Nations has issued a plea for nations to fast-track ratification of the Paris Climate Agreement as some countries are backtracking on support for the deal’s sweeping restrictions on greenhouse gas emissions.

How about Thursday?

U.N. Secretary-General Ban Ki-moon urged nations to attend a “special event” Thursday where they may deposit their “instruments of ratification, acceptance, approval or accession to the Paris Agreement on climate change.”

Progress so far? 177 nations turned up to the Paris party, but only 19 have ratified the agreement in the last six months. It’s not looking good. They need 55 nations which are responsible for 55% of the worlds emissions before the Paris deal gets legs.

Marc Morano, who runs the skeptics’ website Climate Depot, said Tuesday that the cold feet on global warming shows that some countries are realizing the international climate agreement is “not in their best interests.”

“More and more nations are realizing that the U.N. climate treaty is nothing more than an effort to empower the U.N. and attack national sovereignty while doing absolutely nothing for the climate,” said Mr. Morano, who debuted his film “Climate Hustle” during the negotiations in Paris.

He said that the “time has come for a U.S.-led ‘Clexit’ from … the climate treaty.”

The “Clexit” or Climate Exit, comes from Viv Forbes at Carbon Sense in Queensland. It’s catching on.

The Washington Times also quotes Eric Worrall on Watts Up.

“In the wake of a dramatic rollback of climate policy in Britain and Germany, the UN has accused Britain and Germany of “betraying the spirit” of the Paris Climate Accord.”

Given the accelerating collapse of political climate enthusiasm across the world, my prediction is Ban Ki-moon will be remembered as the UN Secretary General who presided over the downfall of the green movement.

One day the Washington Times will manage to link to the skeptics it cites. I’ve fixed that here.

 

The U.N.’s great climate-change fable,
Might collapse like the Tower of Babel,
If some countries start Clexit,
Then a stampede to exit,
To avoid signing up at the table.

       — Ruairi

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Clexit-coming? President of Philippines says Paris climate deal is stupid nonsense. Wants to kick someone., 9.5 out of 10 based on 97 ratings

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143 comments to Clexit-coming? President of Philippines says Paris climate deal is stupid nonsense. Wants to kick someone.

  • #
    Andy Pattullo

    Some can see the truth from a great distance, some catch on as it approaches near, but few can ignore it once it is standing on their neck. That is what is happening now for many political leaders who must chose between continuing to pretend they are “saving the world” while their supply of oxygen quickly slips away or esle, confronting reality and jumping off the Titanic before it leaves port.

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    • #
      Rereke Whakaaro

      I am confused. How could somebody jump off the Titanic, before it leaves port, when somebody else is standing on their neck?

      Beware of mexed mitaphors. ;-)

      250

      • #
        OriginalSteve

        As long as Celine Dion doesnt release a song for it, I’m good….
        :-)

        How many times did i have to endure that “Tiitanic” song?

        I wonder if they could have a Not-Quite-Eurovision ( now that Brits got off the sinking EU group think paralysis ship..) contest?

        Sorry…its Friday…. mea culpa….

        90

      • #
        Andy Pattullo

        I don’t believe I mentioned any metal forks, fixed or otherwise.

        30

        • #
          RobK

          When you hear “fixed metal forks” it generally means you need a new battery in your hearing-aid. ‘not sure how that pans out for reading.

          20

  • #
    TdeF

    President Duterte’s comment is not that climate change, global warming is science nonsense. It is that his country should not agree to remain poor without power or industry simply because rich countries have left an (invisible) mess. He has a real mess, real pollution, real poverty and real lack of electrical power and cannot afford windmills. It also says that he has no reasonable hope of great piles of compensating cash from the UN agreement and like most of the small 160+ countries who are happy to sign as recipients. Otherwise COP21 attendee Mugabe on behalf of the African countries would not have bothered attending. He would supposed to be banned from Europe, but with five pan European parliaments and councils, who knew? Of course at 92 he could have been altruistically trying to save the world.

    The whole climate change circus rolls on pushed by a desperate UN but at least one big country does not want to play the game. The Phillipines are joining Russia, India and China who clearly think it is all game playing by the UN bureaucrats and can be utterly ignored. They have more pressing problems than a small increase in a tiny invisible and totally natural gas from old rotted plant matter.

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    • #
      Tony Porter

      President Duterte’s comment is not that climate change, global warming is science nonsense. It is that his country should not agree to remain poor without power or industry simply because rich countries have left an (invisible) mess.

      Whilst all the other countries are simply towing the left’s party line at OUR EXPENSE!
      Do any of them HONESTLY believe the global warming / CAGW nonsense? Surely they’re not that clueless… are they?

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      • #
        Dennis

        They are well aware, but they are manipulators and politicians, wealth creators too, all in locked in a master plan for new world order.

        100

      • #
        el gordo

        ‘Surely they’re not that clueless… are they?’

        It was never an organised conspiracy, the media beat up the science which brought in politics, the whole stinking mess grew organically.

        There is a lot of self delusion out there, reinforced by relentless propaganda, a non violent revolution is required to overturn the brainwashed masses and global cooling might be considered the trigger.

        70

    • #
      RobK

      “You who have reached your peak and along with it spewed a lot of contaminants, emissions … Good for you. We are here, we have not reached the age of industrialisation. We are on our way to it.”
      Duterte’s comment is understandable and self evident because if the west believes anthropogenic climate change is the most pressing issue facing mankind, then the west has peaked and turned it’s back on science.

      50

  • #
    Peter Miller

    Clexit – I love it.

    Unfortunately, Jose Duterte is not all that well regarded by the global political establishment, so he is unlikely to become an effective leader to help us to rid ourselves of the current ecoloon insanity.

    Nonetheless, the global lack of enthusiasm for the Paris agreement is accelerating, as more and more governments are at long last realising that unreliable, expensive, renewable energy is the answer to nothing . Of course, that was realised by the Indians, Chinese and Russians long ago, but they were supposed to follow the glorious example set by the West – fortunately for them, they were not that stupid.

    The UN is not going to give up without a fight, for the Paris agreement is one of the greatest poverty and bureaucrat generating treaties in history and it is all being done in support of the greatest political ego trip of all time, that of taking credit for saving the world – supposedly.

    441

    • #

      He doesn’t need to be a leader of Clexit, it’s enough that he is not pandering to the scare. Just one more voice of dissent.

      So many others are either agreeing out of fear of being called a denier, or agreeing because they expect to get money from the deal. Or at least they were…

      612

      • #
        Joe Lalonde

        President Obama wants that TPP deal in place before leaving office no matter how he has to do it…blackmailing and giving incentives to our leaders usually works well…
        Then we are not allowed to vote on issues that are very important for our futures.

        250

        • #
          Yonniestone

          The strings have become tangled and the stage is collapsing making the final act very difficult to pull off for many Puppets.

          When people tire of such performances the players learn there’s no show without punch.

          150

          • #
            Betty of Adelaide

            I appreciate Yonniestone’s comment. He/she is echoing what was said on the subject by a very wise man in the 1930s.

            “This is the idea which is at the root of the International Idea, (it has a long pedigree) where it is held sincerely. It is that you can obtain an elaborate series of statistics regarding the populations of the world and put a committee down at Geneva, or elsewhere, to legislate for them on the basis of statistics.

            It is an idea which would never be accepted by anyone who had ever run or organised a small business, and its most vocal exponents, such as, for instance, Mr. H. G. Wells, or Sir Norman Angell, have never, I think, been responsible for the organising of a business of any kind.

            Their qualifications for organising the whole world have never, as one might say, been checked by any kind of laboratory experiment. They are, in fact, in exactly the position of a would-be bridge builder who is ignorant both of the Theory of Structures and the Strength of Materials.”
            – - C.H. Douglas The International Idea, 1932

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        • #
          Tony Porter

          He tried to blackmail Britons not to vote for BREXIT too. So it doesn’t always work so well for him.. ;)

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          • #
            Rereke Whakaaro

            Obama was white-anted, by some of his advisors who know the Brits, and know how they will respond to a “Colonial” President telling them what they should, or should not do.

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        • #
          Olaf Koenders

          …blackmailing and giving incentives to our leaders usually works well…

          Another round of Obamaphones pls.. :)

          40

    • #
      Karl W. Braun

      The actual name of the Philippine president is Rodrigo Duterte.

      20

  • #
    handjive

    Germany waters down climate protection plan

    “Germany has abandoned plans to set out a timetable to exit coal-fired power production and scrapped C02 emissions reduction goals for individual sectors, according to the latest draft of an environment ministry document seen by Reuters on Wednesday.”

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  • #
    Leonard Lane

    It is great the progress truth is making; Clexit is a good word as it describes the transformations toward freedom coming to many nations. I sincerely hope that Donald Trump is elected then we can add USexit to the ranks of Clexit.

    190

    • #
      Rereke Whakaaro

      Clexit also sounds like it should be related to Cleptomania. Coincidence? Perhaps not.

      70

      • #
        Olaf Koenders

        Clexit.. Clexane – a drug belonging to the group of anticoagulants. Stops clots forming. Plenty of clots in Paris.

        60

      • #
        Graeme No.3

        I thought Clexit was Cleopatra’s brother – also husband and possibly nephew; the lines got a bit tangled in ancient Egypt.

        40

  • #
    stan stendera

    Just one more snowball in the coming avalanche. Nations will only do suicidal policies so long. Nations will only sacrifice their economics to nonsense so long. So long has been reached. I wonder where the next snowball will come from. Soon it is not going to take courage to disavow the ignoble CO2 global warming idiocy. I predicted a few days ago on this website that the overhanging, piled high snowbanks were about to break loose. It’s coming soon;it’s already started. Quake in your taupe suede boots Michael Mann.

    270

    • #
      Rereke Whakaaro

      Slightly off topic, but since you brought it up; it is my experience that the next snowball inveriably comes from directly behind you, and hits you on the back of the head, in such as way that most of the ice can go straight down the back of your neck.

      This is one of the least understood laws of nature.

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      • #
        stan stendera

        God one as usual Reneke.

        20

      • #

        Have you ever tried to operate one of those compact skid steer loaders? You can actually rent one having no experience whatsoever!! Good Way to get a whole bucket load of stinky turkey litter down the back of your neck.
        This is called “learning”, but only if you survive!!

        60

        • #
          RobK

          I think the term is “character building”.

          30

        • #
          Dave

          In OZ, we call them dingoes – & I can hire one from a most Hire Companies

          While at work, I need a ticket to operate a whipper snipper, Chainsaw & even a circular saw.

          But Mr or Mrs Ozzie renovator can hire a DINGO, wreck the neighbours fence, eliminate the family pet & lop an arm of the postie delivering mail!

          But I agree with no regulations totally, as it culls the stupid out of our society.

          Ehheee

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          • #

            They are kind of fun. After a while it is like riding a bicycle. You have intent, your four appendages agree to provide the result (mostly)!
            All the best! -will-

            20

  • #
    Ruairi

    The U.N.’s great climate-change fable,
    Might collapse like the Tower of Babel,
    If some countries start Clexit,
    Then a stampede to exit,
    To avoid signing up at the table.

    340

  • #
    ROM

    Same old, same old all over again.

    The best laid plans of the UN’s elitist mice and men more often than not oft go seriously astray.

    And I am not referring to Jo’s post or any comments here.
    ————-
    Each generation fervently believes and hopes that what it has created is set in stone for the eternities to come.

    But as all parents know, the kids, the next generation have distinctly different ideas about the way to the future and the shape of that future than their parents have.

    Those kids are the next generation of mankind and they in their turn like all the generations before them, are also intent on reshaping the world in their own image.
    And so the generations roll ever onwards, each almost fanatically intent on leaving their own indelible imprint on the mankind and the Planet.

    Now as the new generation of global political players enter the scene and begin to re-shape the future in their own image, we are beginning to see the dismantling or perhaps more correctly, the political destruction of what was seen only months ago as a set in stone, UN controlled, highly centralised and incipiently corrupt political and NGO elite directed UN dictatorship created under the guise of “saving the planet” at the cost of the destruction of the democratic developed nation’s economic futures and their societal structures.

    “Saving the planet” from god only knows what except the reason was conveniently labelled as the undefined and undefinable “Climate change” so beloved of the “planet savers” whose main aim was as always, the pot of tax payer’s gold at the end of the climate modelled rainbow allied with a total” Dictatorship of the Proletariat” all carefully “guided and controlled” [sic] by the shadowy international UN elites.

    The Lid on that Dustbin of History where all of the most despicable insults to human intelligence are eventually confined has now been opened ready to receive what is arguably one of the greatest pieces of the total corruption of mankind’s ideals that has ever existed in the annals of history.

    231

  • #
    Ross

    As I noted in a comment the other day –I think a move that is as important, if not far more important than Duterte’s comment was one of the first things Theresa May did as PM was to fold the DECC
    ( Dept. of Energy and Climate Change ) into their business department. Next best thing to getting rid of the DECC.
    To do this so quickly gives a clear indication more is to come in the UK.

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    • #
      stan stendera

      One certainly hopes so.

      110

    • #
      Rereke Whakaaro

      Does/did Australia have a Department of Energy and Climate Change? Who would have guessed … ?

      40

      • #
        Analitik

        We have a minister who’s portfolio concern’s both – Josh Frydenberg – so he would have authority over any such department.

        My letter to him has reached 5 pages so far which I fear is too long. Nevertheless, I will complete it tonight and send it off in the hopes that it will be read or he will allow me to discuss it all in person.

        100

        • #
          Rereke Whakaaro

          All joking aside, you might consider a) Starting with a one paragraph summary of your central point/points, and b) Listing specific questions that you want answered.

          In that way, he can get one of his staffers to brief him, and have meaningful answers to your questions (if you are lucky). Of course, you may just get platitudes, but that is the nature of politics.

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          • #
            Analitik

            A bullet point abstract, along with the request for an in person discussion, to precede the main body will certainly be needed once the body has been completed.

            But I reiterate (from an earlier thread) that ALL non-trolls on this site should be contacting Josh Frydenberg to express that
            - climate change from CO2 emmission is totally unsubstantiated by all measurements that have not been doctored
            - renewable energy from wind and solar are not economically viable and are wasting taxpayer and consumer dollars
            - renewable energy from wind and solar and their supporting policies threaten both our infrastructure and general economy
            - conservative voters are disillusioned by Malcolm Bligh Turnbull’s position on many issues (list those not stated above)
            - conservative votes are being lost to right wing minority parties due to the above

            Then send the same to your local member, Cory Bernardi and possibly state senators. We need the Liberal Party to grasp the fact that the green, Marxist agenda for imposing socialism on Australia (with some deindustrialization thrown in) is only supported by a highly vocal minority who manipulate public perception with misinformation and that contrary to Mark Textor’s assertion, conservative voters form a large portion of the electorate.

            80

            • #
              Rereke Whakaaro

              ALL non-trolls on this site should be contacting Josh Frydenberg

              Well, that counts me out, then.

              30

              • #
                bobl

                Unless, NZ is re-considering joining the Australian Commonwealth, I’d guess your opinion might not carry much weight either.

                10

  • #
    Dennis

    No doubt Malcolm and Julie will come to the aid of their comrades?

    40

  • #
    Peter C

    Did the Washington Times quote Eric Worrall without attribution? The link goes to WUWT, not the Washington Times article.

    30

  • #
    steve mcdonald

    A few years ago I went to vote.
    I stopped at the green parties how to vote person and said.

    ” I cannot vote for a member of the biggest organised crime gang in the history of humanity”

    His reply was “we are saving the planet from climate change you idiot”

    I needed to say no more I could do nothing but walk away and burst out laughing.

    230

    • #

      geez how memorable. Bring that one up at parties?

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      • #
        Greg Cavanagh

        The green supporter’s answer was interesting for two reasons.
        1. He didn’t deny the accusation they were corrupt, it’s almost as though he knew it too.
        2. His answer was customarily rude, even though he was representing his favourite political party, ie: being a representative.

        And your response GA, is similar.

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        • #
          Rereke Whakaaro

          I was once asked, by a young woman armed with a clipboard and pen, if I wanted to save the whales. I responded, by saying that it would be nice to collect the whole set, but unfortunately I had no where to keep them. The string of abuse that I received in return, was quite impressive.

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        • #

          Go with the simpler explanation that the greens person had no idea what Steve was on about.

          True about the rudeness.

          50

  • #
    Radical Rodent

    Interesting logic applied by NASA to their OCO2 satellite imagery of higher CO2 concentrations over rainforests than over the industrial areas – apparently, this is because of seasonal clearance burning by subsistence farming. If such is the case, that such clearance burning overpowers the signal from industrialised areas, then it is surely a good case for supporting these people in raising themselves out of the trough of poverty in which many “greens” wish to keep them. With that in mind, the president of the Philippines has a good point.

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    • #
      Analitik

      Plus there is a consistent correlation between energy consumption (which equates to wealth) and lower birth rates. If the leftist, greenwash are truly concerned about population and resource limits, then raising the living standard of the poor via affordable, accessible energy should be foremost on their agenda.

      60

  • #
    handjive

    Renewable energy: a plan for 50 billion euros

    The economist Rémy Prud’homme publishes an article in Les Echos explains why the government’s plan to develop the photovoltaic and wind turbines will cost 53 billion euros.
    All for $ 6 billion in savings. Again, look for the error …

    What are we for this expense?
    Electricity. A photovoltaic system produces electricity for about 1,300 hours a year, onshore wind during 2200 hours and wind sailor during 3000 hours .

    A simple calculation to estimate the increase in production associated with the official program : 42 TWh ( terawatt hours).

    This represents 9 % of our consumption and 10% of our nuclear power .

    Via google translate

    50

  • #

    Ah, but while others pollute their atmospheres Australia can have an atmosphere that is low-carb. The Tasmanian and South Australian atmospheres might get super low-carb ratings, maybe even ultra low-carb. This would generate green jobs making brochures promoting our atmosphere – although we might have to get the glossy ones made up in China.

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    • #
      Rereke Whakaaro

      … making brochures …

      You can’t do that. Where will the paper come from?

      50

      • #

        The paper will come from vicious carbon dioxide eating plants! You OZ folk have few nice plants, but gobs as vicious as anything else you have, including politicians! :-)

        30

    • #
      mikewaite

      mosomoso. You will be delighted to know that , according to the NASA OCO-2 images that can be found on the
      Blozone site your hopes have been acheived:
      http://www.blozonehole.com/blozone-hole-theory/blozone-hole-theory/carbon-cycle-using-nasa-oco-2-satellite-images

      The concentration of CO2 over Australia , as the excess CO2 flows from North to South over the course of 18 months ,
      does not exceed the global mean of 400ppm and is invariably less than the concentration on other land masses at the same latitude.

      Is this because:
      a. the terrain of continental Australia is uniquely suited to absorbing CO2
      b. the green renewables revolution, removing fossil fueled power, has proved totally successful and this means that they can
      declare victory and no further wind turbines are required
      c the Govt has either prevented heavy industry establishing in Australia , or has driven industry away, to the benefit of the atmosphere
      if not some potential or former employees.

      20

      • #

        mikewaite July 23, 2016 at 7:52 am

        “mosomoso. You will be delighted to know that , according to the NASA OCO-2 images that can be found on the Blozone site your hopes have been acheived:”

        Your referenced site seems to be yet another con job signifying nothing! The values from OCO-2 provide only the radiance of tropopause CO2, with its constant temperature optical depth, never the amount of atmospheric CO2 at that latitude. The 14-15 micron radiance of tropopausal CO2 is approximately proportional to the absolute tropopause temperature raised to the 3rd power. The whole interpretation of the ‘measurement’ is ludicrious! :-(

        10

        • #
          mikewaite

          Will, I am afraid that I did not understand your comments about the “con job” .
          I do not know whether Blozone are being duplicitous in their own images from NASA data . Presumably not since the data is in the public domain and
          inappropriate use of it would surely be quickly detected , not least by NASA .
          Whoever wrote the Wiki article on the OCO-2 measurements by NASA seems clear that they are using the absorption bands of CO2 in the NIR edge of the sunlight
          emission band, together with that of oxygen as a reference for solar intensity , to calculate CO2 concentrations .
          https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Orbiting_Carbon_Observatory_2
          Admittedly my suggestions b and c are a bit frivolous , but there seemed to me to be a consistent difference in CO2 concentrations over Australia compared to
          other land masses at the same latitude .
          I wonder if it is due to the extreme aridity of central Australia compared to South Africa or
          Argentina.

          10

  • #
  • #
    pat

    MSM, objective as ever:

    21 Jul: HuffPo: Dominique Mosbergen: 6 Ways The GOP’s Environmental Platform Will Damage The Earth
    The Republican party casts doubt on climate change, rejects the Paris Agreement and calls coal “clean.”
    The world’s scientists overwhelmingly agree (LINKS TO GUARDIAN’S NUCCITELLI/JOHN COOK SURVEY ARTICLE) : our planet is facing an environmental crisis of staggering proportions. The Earth is warming at an alarming rate due to human activity…
    Khalid Pitts, political director, Sierra Club: “The Republican platform has gone beyond partisan politics and extended into cartoonish absurdity. Any voter who cares about our climate has to help make sure that Donald Trump never becomes president, and that this platform never gets near a piece of legislation.”…
    New York Magazine’s Jonathan Chait called the platform “crazy.”…
    Here are some of the ideas, themes and plans in the Republican platform:

    The environment is fine, and those who say otherwise are ‘extremists.’
    Climate change is not that important. It’s not even proven science.
    Bye bye, EPA — and its Clean Power Plan.
    Speaking of coal, did you know it’s ‘clean?’
    Other fossil fuels are great too.
    Paris Agreement? No thanks.
    http://www.huffingtonpost.com.au/entry/republican-party-platform-environment_us_57907b86e4b00c9876ce223d

    no dissent will be tolerated:

    20 Jul: Guardian: Oliver Milman: Conservative groups push back against Republican party’s climate denialism
    Partnership for Responsible Growth and other groups launch campaigns to urge Republicans and Rupert Murdoch’s media empire to accept climate change
    Conservative and free-market groups have staged a rearguard effort to get the Republican party to accept the dangers of climate change, criticizing climate denialism within the GOP and Rupert Murdoch’s media empire…
    The Partnership for Responsible Growth calls itself a free-market group that supports putting a price on carbon. Its advisory council includes Ted Roosevelt IV, managing director of investment banking at Barclays Capital, former oil executive William Nitze and retired rear admiral David Titley…
    https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2016/jul/20/conservative-groups-republican-party-climate-change-denial

    40

    • #

      “MSM, objective as ever:”

      The Donald strategy seems to apear as the greatest enemy of MSM! He seems to be taking the Repugnicans along. This just may destroy both the MSM and the Demorats! :-)
      While Pence runs Congress and what is left of the USA. The Donald is shorting the stock of NYC investment banks. He then buys the remains of Peabody Energy out from under the Chinese who only hold worthless US treasuries. Sorry private pension funds, this was worked out long ago!

      41

  • #

    It seems that journalists in the Philippines are similar to journalists everywhere. They can’t understand what is being said, and then the report gets somewhat muddled, because they don’t really know how to check for correctness, if you can see what I am attempting to highlight here.

    Note the article at this link from March of 2016, when Al Gore toured the Philippines, and keep in mind here that President Duterte didn’t take office until later, in June.

    The article mentions the Philippines rush to construct (at least) 25 new coal fired plants.

    It’s pretty much blah blah blah, but read the six paragraphs under the sub heading PH lagging, where the journalist somewhat muddles what she thinks Al Gore was saying in that second paragraph, where it says:

    The United States, one of the world’s biggest energy consumers, is abandoning coal-fed power plants. Currently, coal-sourced power accounts for 0.01 percent of the national total, while the highest are wind and solar energy, each accounting for a third of the supply.

    Now, not even I’m sure what is being said here, as coal fired power in the U.S. makes up 35% of the National Total, and all wind and solar are only 5%.

    Also of note is where the journalist mentions in the last paragraph this:

    Gore said the sun produced “enough energy every single hour to provide the entire world’s full energy use for a year.”

    Hmm, I’d like to see how he’s going to make that work.

    Tony.

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    • #
      Dennis

      Don’t you worry about that, Al says it can

      70

    • #
      Gordon

      That’s easy!
      First ya got to get a whole bunch of tax dollars together.
      Then ya got to spend those tax dollars on windmills and solar panels.
      Everything will be fine as this all works great. Al says so. So does Naomi Klein. Greenpeace, the Green Party says it works. So it does.

      50

    • #

      Gore said the sun produced “enough energy every single hour to provide the entire world’s full energy use for a year.”

      Hmm, I’d like to see how he’s going to make that work. Tony.”

      Tony,
      He has no need “to make that work”. Check the wording ‘produces’ not ‘emits in the direction of the Earth’! The Earth intercepts less than 6/10^6 of the continuous power produced by the Sun.
      Is the design of the Westinghouse SMR 1/4 that of the AP1000? Thanks -will-

      60

      • #

        Whoa!

        Thanks for this Will.

        For all of you who keep mentioning the hope for a Thorium reactor, and I still think they are a long way off, here is something that actually is ready to go now, perhaps the way forward for Nuclear Power.

        Read this very carefully. (The Westinghouse Small Modular Reactor) (pdf document of 6 pages)

        There’s a great graphic on page 6 comparing this to wind and solar, and as you look at the comparison, be aware that the figures are for Nameplate, so where it shows wind, the output would only be equivalent to 68MW, and the solar PV equivalent to 45MW.

        How could anyone not like this, and it’s ready to go now.

        Tony.

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          Analitik

          In case you haven’t heard of some of the other SMRs being proposed, here is an evaluation of several contenders for the UK government’s competition to select a design of a SMR for future deployment.

          http://euanmearns.com/the-uks-small-modular-reactor-competition/

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        • #

          “How could anyone not like this, and it’s ready to go now. Tony.”

          Yes indeed 260 MW 24/7 for 2 years and it floats! Deliverable to your shore, by any rent-able nuclear submarine! The smaller Nucor/Fluor 50 MW units are road-able, better for your hunting cabin in the woods!
          All the best! -will-

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            RobK

            The meek should be building these to improve their inheritance.

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            • #

              “The meek should be building these to improve their inheritance.”

              How do you transform the meek into iron mongers, steel walkers, welders, and riggers? Folk that do, rather than profess? Those that do issue ‘cat calls’ upon all attractive.
              It is the “it” that is both racially and sexually obscene that claims “I am a woman of color and your Italian restaurant sign that reads, “Black Olives matter” offends me! Phoenix AZ Oh woha are we!

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              • #
                RobK

                How do you transform the meek into iron mongers, steel walkers, welders, and riggers? Folk that do, rather than profess?
                That is perhaps the moral dilemma of our time.

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          Robert O

          Certainly a viable option, the problem really is are we advanced enough to use modern technology, or base the future on 14th. Century technology?

          Apart from the small acreage required, to refuel it every two years and a lifespan of 60 years have to be good points.

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            RobK

            And it would extend or take pressure off the the fossil fuel resource exploitation.

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            • #

              “And it would extend or take pressure off the the fossil fuel resource exploitation.”
              Perhaps I should respond!! OK Months ahead (1/3 year) should be interesting. Brexit boring. AU election boring. Brazil Olympics boring. US race to political extinction, interesting. Who will have the most profitable beer and popcorn concession? :-)

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                RobK

                Who will have the most profitable beer and popcorn concession?
                Profit shouldnt be the primary concern in these situations.

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              • #

                RobK July 22, 2016 at 6:26 pm

                (“Who will have the most profitable beer and popcorn concession?”)

                “Profit shouldnt be the primary concern in these situations.”

                Huh? What kind of reptile are jew?
                In this current situation, best to go all out and jump the best-est other critter out there. Have fun!

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            I know it’s not the topic but this power plant option is very attractive, if only for what is mentioned on page 6 of that pdf document where it mentions this:

            1. The SMR is capable of economically handling the unique challenges of providing baseload power on smaller grids and those with non-steady power sources.
            2. MSHIM allows easy transition between load follow and baseload operation with minimal operator interaction.
            3. Daily load follow can be performed from 100% to 20% power at a rate of 5% change per minute; in continuous load follow, the plant can perform load changes of ±10% power at a rate of 2% per minute.

            And also the Passive safety features designed to shut the plant down automatically and keep it cool without human intervention or AC power for seven days

            It still suffers because of that one word though ….. Nuclear, and as Pixie Anne Wheatley the SHY Senator will tell everyone ….. you know, nuclear, blowing things up.

            Tony.

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              Tony,
              You reiterate all that Admiral Rickover proposed “many ways to do it wrong”, one way to do it correctly! The US Navy can have submarine weapons or have surface targets!

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    pat

    19 Jul: Bloomberg Government: Mark Drajem: How “The Five Love Languages” explains the GOP and climate change
    Maybe we’re just looking for drama after the effort to oust presumptive nominee Donald Trump yesterday fizzled into nothing. Anyway, it’s day two of the RNC, so get ready for a steady line-up of coal boosters who’ll equate carbon-based energy with American jobs. On tap is Sen. Majority Leader Mitch McConnell, West Virginia Sen. Shelley Moore Capito, Arkansas Governor Asa Hutchison and Arkansas Attorney General Leslie Rutledge. Look for them to back up the platform’s promise to kill the Clean Power Plan (“the centerpiece of the president’s war on coal”), and protect miners and their families “from the Democratic Party’s radical coal agenda.”
    ClearPath founder Jay Faison, the man who wants Republicans to embrace curbing carbon emissions, will be sitting down with the Washington Post at their convention headquarters at 10 a.m. today…
    At a Bloomberg-hosted luncheon in Cleveland yesterday, Christian activists, free-market campaigners and former New York congresswoman Nan Hayworth all made the case that Republicans can and should take a different path on the issue.
    No one intrigued us more than Ash Mason of the Christian Coalition, who referenced the 2004 book The Five Love Languages in describing why conservatives balk at coming up with a response to climate change. Gary Chapman’s book says we each have different ways of loving and wanting love…
    Rachel Lamb of the Young Evangelicals group said Millennials want to aim at climate change; older voters may not. Alicia Prevost of Defend Our Future, the group working with young people on the issue, argued that divide is one driven by the media…
    Chart of the Day
    Diesel Bets Show: Winter is Coming: You know we’re a long way from winter when the National Weather Service is forecasting temperatures pushing 100 degrees Farenheit on the East Coast, but hedge funds can’t wait for us to switch on our radiators. Money managers haven’t been this enthused about diesel in two years…
    http://about.bgov.com/blog/five-love-languages-explains-gop-climate-change/

    20 Jul: Reuters: Green Republicans resist Trump’s climate denial in Cleveland
    by Richard Valdmanis and Valerie Volcovici
    Youth, religious and investor activists aligned with the Republican Party are working the sidelines of the July 18-22 conclave, arguing that a greener platform could help the New York businessman-turned-politician win voters in November.
    “In an age where the Republicans are particularly interested in winning the presidency, they are not supporting an agenda that reflects that most Americans recognize climate change is a problem,” said Rachel Lamb, national organizer for the Young Evangelicals for Climate Action group.
    Lamb and representatives from other organizations like the Greater Cleveland Young Republicans, environmental advocacy group RepublicEn, and clean energy foundation ClearPath taken part in panel discussions and held private meetings with operatives on the sidelines of the convention…
    Cade Marsh, a representative of the College Republican National Committee, said he was hoping to convince Republicans in Cleveland this week that environmentalism and conservatism are not mutually exclusive.
    “‘Climate change’ is a word that is seen as far left,” Marsh said. “But if you repackage clean energy in terms of national security and liberty, you’ll find people much more receptive,” he said, referring to the role of renewable energy sources like wind power and solar power in reducing dependence on foreign oil.
    He said his message has been warmly received by convention attendees, but that he held out little hope of a turnaround in Trump’s policies. “This is about tomorrow’s Republican party,” Marsh said…
    http://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-election-republican-climatechange-idUSKCN10030O?utm_term=0_876aab4fd7-c2a5625e59-303439889&utm_content=buffer012e0&utm_medium=social&utm_source=twitter.com&utm_campaign=buffer

    wonder when the millennials will realise the Carbon Cowboys plan to steal their inheritances…at the rate of $7 trillion per year, if they get their way?

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    Egor TheOne

    The ABC, SBS, Greens, EU, UN, Central Banks, all of which are big advocates of CAGW and its propaganda ….all need to go!

    The above are all lunatic and/or of very low or non existent integrity (criminals).

    All robbers and raiders of the peoples money to serve their own ends under false pretense.

    It seems the more they lose control, the more absurd and ‘HYSTERICAL’ they become.

    If there were not such large sums of money involved, this entire CAGW fiasco would have long ago died the quick death it deserves.

    I says, put it all to the sword, and the quicker the better.

    Many have had enough of the above and that ‘clexit’ will become ‘clavalanchexit’….. and none too soon.

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    pat

    21 Jul: Reuters: Kathy Chen: China launches new alert system to tame wind power investments
    China has launched a risk alerting system to prevent further investments in wind power generation in certain locations, after large amounts of power were wasted due to inadequate power transmission infrastructure.
    The National Energy Administration (NEA) has given a red alert, or the highest warning, to five provinces where new construction approvals and access to grid connections will be put on hold, according to an official statement published on Thursday…
    However, a national average of 26 percent of wind power generated in the first quarter of 2016 was wasted. Jilin, Gansu and Xinjiang provinces were the worst offenders with about half of their wind power generation wasted while Ningxia and Heilongjiang lost a little more than one-third of their wind power, according to the NEA.
    “We estimate that over the course of the first six months, 4.2 billion kilowatt hours of wind and solar power has been wasted, which is equivalent to New Zealand’s electricity use in the whole year of 2015,” said Peng Peng, an analyst with the Chinese Renewable Energy Industries Association…
    https://www.yahoo.com/news/china-launches-alert-system-tame-wind-power-investments-055031269.html

    21 Jul: Guardian: Why is the World Bank backing coal power in Europe’s youngest country?
    The World Bank is poised to support a new coal plant that would modernise Kosovo’s creaking energy infrastructure, but also lock the young nation into a future powered by a regressive fossil fuel
    by Karl Mathiesen in Pristina
    While many countries, including the US, continue to build coal plants at home, the fuel is increasingly a pariah in the world of development finance…
    Despite this, Kosovan government officials are confident they will receive final approval from the World Bank when the project goes before its board, likely later this year. Strong advocacy is expected from the US delegation.
    “I don’t think any of our partners wants to put at risk the future of our country,” says Kosovo’s minister for economic development, Blerand Stavileci.
    There is little argument that Kosovo’s emergence as a nation – it is still only recognised by 111 of 193 UN member states – is being stunted by an electricity system that is 97% reliant on two creaking coal plants that are 46 and 35 years old. Kosovo has the fifth biggest lignite reserves on Earth. Locals call this brown, crumbly mineral “ari i zi” – black gold…
    The €1bn-plus project has had a tortured and opaque 11-year tender process, which ended with a single US company bidding for the operating contract…
    A 2011 World Bank report concluded that Kosovo’s growing energy demand could only be fulfilled cost-effectively by new coal…
    https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2016/jul/20/kosovo-coal-plant-power-world-bank-investment-dirty-technology

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    el gordo

    The Donald seeks able individuals.

    ‘Republican presidential candidate Donald Trump is considering nominating Oklahoma oil and gas mogul Harold Hamm as energy secretary if elected to the White House on Nov. 8, according to four sources close to Trump’s campaign.’

    Reuters

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    Dennis

    From Andrew Bolt, Daily Telegraph;

    Maurice Newman, former head of the Australian Securities Exchange, warns that the world faces a terrible depression:

    … politicians share responsibility for today’s distorted economy, having recklessly spent tomorrow’s productive capital on consumption. Global indebtedness stands at more than $US200 trillion ($267 trillion), about three times world product, having increased $US57 trillion since 2008.

    Yet for all that debt and quantitative easing, in the first quarter of this year the US grew at just 0.5 per cent, down from 1.4 per cent in the previous period. Job openings in May plunged 345,000, the second steepest decline since 2008, and new hirings are down 474,000 compared with three months ago.

    In the eurozone, unemployment stands at 10.1 per cent. In December 2007 it was 7.3 per cent. Forecast gross domestic product for this year is a downwardly adjusted tepid 1.6 per cent.

    What’s that about low interest rates spurring the economy? …

    The [Bank for International Settlements] has rung the alarms. We are warned that the world’s most reckless monetary experiment, which has taken interest rates to the lowest in recorded history, is failing…

    This leaves only the market’s invisible and heavy hand to make the required adjustments. What follows will be indiscriminate, unpredictable, socially far-reaching and, politically ugly.

    At the heart of this looming disaster is the juvenile irresponsibility of modern Western culture. Pampered peoples demanded social security and services they could not afford and did not want to pay for – and which sapped their will to work and to build. The bill will soon be presented.

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      Dennis

      But there is no need for Australian governments to make cuts to budgets, to ease back on spending lowering tax revenue and borrowing to spend more.

      Is there.

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        Ross

        Interesting Dennis. In NZ in recent days the CEO of ANZ has come out pushing for restraints, to curb rampant house price inflation. It is easy to see that behind his words is a very worried guy.

        But he is also inept –paid $4.5 mill but has not got the gumption to act on his thinking –as a bank they can do what they like without Government interference but no, he has to try and goad the Government to do something because he is too scared other banks will get some advantage. It is this sort of inaction that has got the world finances in the mess they are in

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      “At the heart of this looming disaster is the juvenile irresponsibility of modern Western culture. Pampered peoples demanded social security and services they could not afford and did not want to pay for – and which sapped their will to work and to build. The bill will soon be presented.”

      Repeat after me “I am stupid”, I must remain stupid until I recognize and internalize my own stupidity!
      The powers that be promoted knowledge via free public education. What was delivered is but brainwashing, with rote repetition of the party line, but no understanding or knowledge.
      Add TV/internet advertizing, and now each has an opinion better than any other, a true political party of one. Once you recognize that you are in deep shit, can you stop “digging ’cause you are smarter’ than average folk!” -will-

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      el gordo

      ‘…the world’s most reckless monetary experiment, which has taken interest rates to the lowest in recorded history, is failing…’

      A beggar my neighbor policy and depression appears inevitable, although not exactly new, there is still hope the hybrid model and Third Way can still save the day.

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    F. Ross

    Brexit! Yeaaah.
    Clexit, five stars!
    …even better UNexit!

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    • #

      Just like the Koreans did to the Japanese palace in Seoul The UN Building in NYC shall become “the grand NYC waste-water treatment facility” :-)

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      • #
        Greg Cavanagh

        According to wiki, the area has been undergoing extensive restoration.

        It doesn’t exactly say what happened to the Japanese palace, one is left to assume its in good condition and remains untouched.

        But it does say “In 1989, the South Korean government started a 40-year initiative to rebuild the hundreds of structures that were destroyed by the colonial government of the Empire of Japan, during the period of occupied Colonial Korea (1910-1945).”

        Is something missing? Can you direct us to an article where the old palace is being used for something less savoury?

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    pat

    HOT quirks:

    21 Jul: Science Daily: Historical records miss a fifth of global warming: NASA
    A new NASA-led study finds that almost one-fifth of the global warming that has occurred in the past 150 years has been missed by historical records due to quirks in how global temperatures were recorded. The study explains why projections of future climate based solely on historical records estimate lower rates of warming than predictions from climate models…
    The study applied the quirks in the historical records to climate model output and then performed the same calculations on both the models and the observations to make the first true apples-to-apples comparison of warming rates. With this modification, the models and observations largely agree on expected near-term global warming. The results were published in the journal Nature Climate Change. Mark Richardson of NASA’s Jet Propulsion Laboratory, Pasadena, California, is the lead author…
    Because it isn’t possible to add more measurements from the past, the researchers instead set up the climate models to mimic the limited coverage in the historical records…
    Scientists have known about these quirks for some time, but this is the first study to calculate their impact. “They’re quite small on their own, but they add up in the same direction,” Richardson said. “We were surprised that they added up to such a big effect.”…
    https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2016/07/160721164201.htm

    not surprised at all.

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      Retrospective climate modeling.

      Tony.

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      • #

        What will they think up next?
        The measurement is broken!
        The approach is ridiculous!
        The rhetoric is treasonable!
        Who would let such out from the dungeons?

        Would you Tony? Why?

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      tom0mason

      Ain’t that weird, NASA find that when they adjust 4/5 of historical temperature records (of what provenance?), then remodel them in a wonky climate model, they can get everything to conform to a predefined prejudice.

      Strange how that works, eh?

      A new apples to rotten onions comparison — NASA is truly ahead of the field in this race of the ridiculous.

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  • #
    pat

    21 Jul: WaPo: Chris Mooney: What science can tell us about the links between global warming and massive heat waves
    The United States is witnessing a massive, dangerous heat wave, as a huge system of high pressure covers the central part of the country. It’s a big enough deal that yesterday President Obama even tweeted about it…
    https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/energy-environment/wp/2016/07/21/what-science-can-tell-us-about-the-links-between-global-warming-and-massive-heat-waves/

    22 Jul: Bloomberg: Jessica Shankleman: World is warming but Antarctic is getting colder
    Antarctic temperature have reversed course, dropping by an average of about 0.5 degree Celsius per decade since the late 1990s while the rest of the world experienced record heat
    Temperatures on the Antarctic Peninsula have reversed course, dropping by an average of about 0.5 degree Celsius per decade since the late 1990s while the rest of the world experienced record heat, 10 researchers from the British Antarctic Survey concluded in an article published in the journal “Nature” on Wednesday.
    The report’s authors didn’t make a conclusion about what their findings mean for the debate about global warming, saying the changes they noticed could fit at the extreme end of natural climate variations. That suggests it may take years and further research to determine the direction of temperatures in the Antarctic and what they mean for the world. Climate scientists said the report should be treated with caution…
    “That a very small part of the planet shows a short-term cooling is not in any way a surprise,” said Ed Hawkins of the National Center for Atmospheric Science at the University of Reading in England. “It’s what we expect from natural variation in the atmospheric circulation interacting with a long-term warming trend.”
    The findings will feed the debate about the significance of a slowdown in the pace of global warming seen since 1998…
    Not paused
    “This study certainly does not suggest that global warming has been halted,” said Martin Siegert, co-director of the Grantham Institute at Imperial College London…
    “It is important not to interpret the cooling of this small area of Antarctica as evidence that the climate is not warming,” said Martyn Tranter at the University of Bristol. “The cooling here has very little influence on global climate change. The overwhelming evidence is that the global climate is warming.”…
    http://www.livemint.com/Science/pV2uIcokkstvr2eLgxQL5O/World-is-warming-but-Antarctic-is-getting-colder.html

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      Peter C

      Antarctic temperature have reversed course, dropping by an average of about 0.5 degree Celsius per decade since the late 1990s ….
      Not paused
      “This study certainly does not suggest that global warming has been halted,” said Martin Siegert, co-director of the Grantham Institute at Imperial College London…

      I do not know how Martin Siegert can deduce that from the study. The high latitudes were supposed to respond first and most to Global Warming. Here the British Antarctic Survey (one of the most alarmist groups in the world) admit that the Antarctic is Cooling. That suggests to me that the Cooling has started.

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      • #
        el gordo

        Cooling began in 2003 but it takes awhile for temperatures to dribble down, warming is always more dynamic for some reason.

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    Analitik

    OT – RenewEconomy disputes SA wind farms consumed power on the 7th of July

    Coalition “fed” dodgy numbers on wind energy to Murdoch media

    The figures quote in the article by The Australian for power consumption were overstated so this was emphasized as much as possible. I did some checking of my own from the AEMO archived data and found that there was a period where total output was negative.
    The wording by Giles is very clever to imply an error in the article by The Australian meant there was no negative power periods at all

    Our analysis of the data, confirmed by both the Melbourne Energy Institute and the regulators, show there was no deficit at 1pm.

    So I posted up my findings that confirmed the 2:20pm consumption being about 2MW (as stated in the revised article) and asked Giles for his figures.
    Dunno if the comment will last long.
    http://reneweconomy.com.au/2016/coalition-fed-dodgy-numbers-on-wind-energy-to-murdoch-media-20279#comment-2796853451

    Good on you Analitik. Good comment. – Jo

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    pat

    21 Jul: Breitbart: Daniel Nussbaum: Leo DeCaprio warns celebrity friends: We are the “last generation” to stop climate change
    Leonardo DiCaprio sounded a dire warning at his charity foundation’s annual climate change gala in St. Tropez Wednesday night…
    Dozens of A-list stars made the trek to the French Riviera for the Leonardo DiCaprio Foundation’s annual Gala to Fund Climate and Biodiversity Projects, including U2 frontman Bono, actors Bradley Cooper, Edward Norton, Jonah Hill, Tobey Maguire and Chris Rock and singers Mariah Carey, Lana del Rey and The Weeknd.
    The event’s co-chairs included Robert De Niro, Kevin Spacey, Kate Hudson, Arnold Schwarzenegger, Penelope Cruz, Cate Blanchett and Charlize Theron…
    As Breitbart News previously reported, DiCaprio may have hurt his own cause by hosting the gala in St. Tropez, France, far away from where many of its attendees live in Southern California.
    If just one of the celebrities who attended the event traveled the 12,000-mile round trip from Los Angeles to France by private jet, they would have burned enough fossil fuel to emit approximately 86 tons of carbon dioxide. The average American, for comparison, puts out around 19 tons of carbon dioxide on airline flights per year….
    http://www.breitbart.com/big-hollywood/2016/07/21/leo-dicaprio-raises-45-million-global-warming-gala-last-generation-can-stop-climate-change/

    expecting a Trump presidency?

    21 Jul: SeattlePost-Ingelligencer: Jake Ellison: Earth is hotter than ever — prosecute inaction on climate change?
    Humans can’t wait another four years before we start dealing with climate change and the economic opportunity that goes along with it. So, whoever becomes the next U.S. president — Democrat or Republican — has to take action or be held accountable…
    Basically, we are fast approaching the moment when any delay in dealing with CO2 emissions, let alone public denials of the science, are criminal negligence and economic maleficence…
    In the face of demonstrative evidence that inaction is destroying lives, the people who must act but don’t have to be hauled into court to at the very least defend their inaction. (Note: The experts quoted in this story merely responded to the question “Can we wait four more years?” The assertions of criminality are my own.)…
    http://www.seattlepi.com/local/science/article/Record-global-heat-persists-Next-president-8399670.php

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      el gordo

      ‘…public denials of the science, are criminal negligence and economic maleficence…’

      Yes, the irony burns.

      A Royal Commission should sort out the wheat from the chaff, then prosecutions may follow, but litigation should be our last resort. Reeducation camps for the intractable would be a safer option.

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  • #
    Geoffrey Williams

    Clexit-’ratting’on the ratification!
    Don’t you just love it!
    GeoffW

    30

  • #
    pat

    21 Jul: Bloomberg: Anna Hirtenstein: These Clean Energy Projects Pollute More Than Coal Power Plants
    Geothermal wells usually provide a steady supply of clean energy flowing from the natural heat of the Earth. In Turkey, because of a quirk in the geology, some of those wells pollute as much as coal-fired power plants…
    The previously unreleased study, which was obtained by Bloomberg News, was prepared for the EBRD by Ernst & Young LLP, Ecofys International BV and the Middle East Technical University in Istanbul…
    http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2016-07-21/these-clean-energy-projects-pollute-more-than-coal-power-plants

    22 Jul: ABC: Gail Burke: Recycling plan could see Queenslanders get 10c a container
    He (Toby Hutcheon from recycling advocacy group Boomerang Alliance) said similar recycling schemes are used in over 40 jurisdictions around the world, and are proven to slash litter rates, dramatically increase recycling, creates hundreds of jobs in collection and re-processing…

    19 Jul: EastBayTimes California: Hundreds of California recycling centers shut down
    by Darcy Costello, Associated Press
    More than a fifth of California’s recycling redemption centers have closed in the last year, stripping consumers of easy access to recycling and limiting their ability to collect the deposits they made when purchasing bottles and cans.
    More closures may follow, as the state’s subsidy payment program, meant to help centers survive market fluctuations, has failed to keep up with rapid decreases in the value of plastic, glass and aluminum. The payment formula, advocates say, is too slow to cover the real costs of recycling.
    The Legislature hasn’t been able to agree on a solution to prevent further closures or solve the program’s problems…
    Historically, there have been about 2,100 centers in the state, said Mark Oldfield, a CalRecycle spokesman. More than 450 centers closed in the year that ended in June, eliminating hundreds of jobs; today there are 1,773 centers and more are expected to close in the coming months…
    http://www.eastbaytimes.com/california/ci_30145843/hundreds-california-recycling-centers-shut-down?source=JPopUp

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  • #
    Adrian from Sandringham

    TonyfromOz 18.3.1 says “Thorium reactor, and I still think they are a long way off”. What I would like to know is, if the USA had a thorium reactor running for four years in the 60ies and China is fast tracking six prototype reactors right now. Why is it that the USA venture capital is not racing ahead with Thorium power to compete with China and limit their control of Thorium energy patents. What is stopping them? I’ve asked many people but never receive a good answer.

    After all:
    1) Thorium produces 250 time more energy than Uranium weight for weight.
    2) One kilogram of Thorium will supply one Westerners life time every needs!
    3) And, there is 250 times less waste per unit of energy
    4) No possibility of a melt down
    5) No possibility of nuclear weapons, dirty or otherwise
    6) No CO2 output, if that’s your thing
    7) Much less radio-toxicity, waste Thorium reaches background radiation in 300 years verses 300,000 years for spent Uranium
    8) World supply of Thorium is three times that of Uranium
    9) Thorium reactor foot print 10% of Uranium reactors and low risk (no meltdowns) requiring little or no population free buffer zone.
    10) Thorium reactor needs a small amount of spent Uranium. Can therefore solve long term waste Uranium problem
    11) Useful waste products in spent Thorium. Rhodium, Strontium and Caesium, with multiple uses in medicine, chemistry, machinery and instruments. Uranium reactors have no useful waste and costs mega dollars to store for centuries.
    12) Can use excess (night time) energy to: a) Desalinate sea water b) Synthesis ammonia, the basis of fertilisers c) Synthesis of Methanol to replace corn and sugar production of motor fuel. d) Charging of electric cars.
    13) There is enough Thorium to power the whole world for hundreds, if not thousands of years.

    What is there not to like about Thorium nuclear energy?

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      Adrian from Sandringham July 22, 2016 at 8:29 pm ·

      “TonyfromOz 18.3.1 says “Thorium reactor, and I still think they are a long way off”.”

      Anton has established credibility, Adrian has none!

      “What is there not to like about Thorium nuclear energy?”

      What is there not to like about Pink Giraffes?

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      • #
        Analitik

        I have a reply in moderation that answers Adrian’s question directly but I object to this form of reply.

        Yes, Anton is quite knowledgeable in power engineering but there are many others who post on this site that know a bit on these matters as well and some have more practical experience (not talking about myself – my knowledge is mainly from an undergraduate engineering degree). The TonyfromOz fan club attitude that you are espousing hints at the same mindless follower attitude that afflicts CAGW advocates

        Let me be quite clear – I an NOT blaming Anton for any of this.

        He researches and posts diligently and expressing his thoughts clearly. That people respect him for passing on knowledge is understandable. But the level of adoration I have seen, devalues contribution of others, who often initiate subjects in a comment with solid facts yet get far fewer likes than a later brief statement that Anton may add.

        OK, now red thumb me to oblivion

        [The referenced replay is at 31.2 -Fly]

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          AndyG55

          If Tony is incorrect anywhere… then tell us.

          Shouldn’t be that hard for someone with your obvious intelligence. :-)

          I have several time checked his calculations against the data I can find.

          I have yet to find any major issues… have you ?

          That is not worship, its respect.

          And I would never give you a red thumb for being sceptical. :-)

          Adrian has brought up many salient points, but needs to do further work to find the reasons behind the lack of progress on Thorium reactors.

          The FACT is that they are not in abundance.

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            Analitik

            Andy, where did I say Anton was wrong? My point was that his viewpoint was parroted to damp down a perfectly reasonable line of questioning. Adrian’s questions deserved a proper response

            For the record, I agree with Anton about most things concerning electrical power generation (we have a minor disagreement about solar thermal agglomeration but that was virtual hair splitting).

            I know we (you and I) disagree about the suitability of nuclear energy for Australia but that’s fine – we have independently come to different conclusions which doesn’t mean I don’t respect your point of view.

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          Analitik July 22, 2016 at 9:37 pm

          “I have a reply in moderation that answers Adrian’s question directly but I object to this form of reply.”
          This is not about who knows what, but who presents their opinion in a manner understandable to others.
          Adrian demands fait accompli that is unacceptable to all here!

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            Analitik

            Adrian asked reasonable questions.

            Your response was downright rude and basically said “Don’t question Tony”

            People here are supposed to be independent thinkers. You were espousing group thought behaviour of blindly following authority.

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              Your response was downright rude and basically said “Don’t question Tony”

              Nope!

              Please, oh please, question Tony.

              I’ve learned more about the subject I thought was my knowledge base, and chased up more things, from the questions asked here at Joanne’s site than I ever would have done from just trying to do it all myself.

              I relish the questions and the criticism, because it makes me dig deeper.

              I just KNOW there will be times when I am wrong, and I rely on readers here to point out these things to me.

              Thank heavens you can’t see me when I’m sitting in front of my computer, because the red face from embarrassment from time to time is probably not a good look ….. and then I go looking.

              There are subjects here I know little about, and I learn from them.

              There are subjects here I know something about, and I can learn from them also.

              This isn’t group think forum. It’s a learning resource, for me especially.

              Tony.

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                Analitik

                Anton has established credibility, Adrian has none!

                What is there not to like about Pink Giraffes?

                I’m sorry Tony but how are these advising Adrian to ask you questions?

                Adrian was, in fact, asking you – I just happened to see the question and thought I could provide some information and then Will posted his snide comments.

                I reiterate again – I am not criticising you.
                I am criticising those who are not using the information you provide as a springboard for their own independent evaluation but rather accept your statements blindly without question.

                You are highly appreciated with good reason but it has gone beyond respect when you look at some of these responses and even if you examine the thumb status of our answers to Adrian’s question and compare their contents.

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            Rereke Whakaaro

            Will makes a good point.

            Go back and read Adrian’s comment again. He only uses two question marks. One was a valid question regarding a delay in introducing the technology – a delay that other people cannot explain, according to Adrian. The other question is hypothetical, following the list of what Adrian sees as potentially useful selling points for the technology. And that is what Adrian’s comment reads like – a sales brochure.

            Will could have possibly worded his critism in more pallitable terms, but then, he has always called a spade a spade.

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              Analitik

              The questions still deserved proper answers – Will’s response was nothing more than a derogatory put down.

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          toorightmate

          Analitik,
          If it’s just too good to be true, then it’s just NOT true.

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            Analitik

            The too good to be true part is that they are not ready for commercial deployment – additional work is needed in several key areas. However, these are largely issues concern scaling of support processes – the molten salt reactors themselves are a proven concept with the enriched uranium fuelled variants that I mentioned being built and run successfully. This was the reactor Adrian referred to – thorium was never used but was proposed and the neutron flux for breeding was measured in experiments.

            I’m not a massive fan of using wikipedia for referencing but the articles there are pretty decent and there are plenty of links to papers with further details.

            https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Molten-Salt_Reactor_Experiment
            https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Molten_salt_reactor

            The development of molten salt reactors for commercial use by the US government was stalled by political considerations – not because of some fundamental issue with engineering or physics. Now it is being developed by in Western countries private firms but the current economic climate in the Western world is not conducive to investment in nuclear power. This is why so many of the projects are in India and China.

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      Analitik

      The big issue in the USA is uncertainty in demand plus regulatory oversight.

      Renewable generators with their bypassing of normal merit order are making it unprofitable to operate some reactors (eg 3 reactors in 2 plants recently planned to close in Illinois). Plus the anti-nukes add to costs with legal challenges over safety concerns etc.
      http://www.nei.org/News-Media/News/News-Archives/State-Inaction-Forces-Closure-of-Three-Illinois-Re

      The NRC clamped right down on reactor construction with excessive safety requirements after the Three Mile Island incident. Chernobyl only added to this problem, although it was mitigated by the reactor being a plutonium breeding RMBK design but then Fukushima gave the NRC all manner of excuses to further impede the nuclear industry. This may well be improving because the former head of the NRC, Gregory Jaczko, was a fervent anti-nuke but was finally forced to resign in 2012.

      Basically, the USA (and most of the Western nations, as well) does not inspire great confidence in investing in reactors. If you read the link I posted from the euan mearns site, you will see that there are many small companies trying to attract funding for molten salt reactors of which the LFTR is one variant.

      BTW any uranium fuelled MSR wouldn’t be any larger than a thorium fuelled one and would have the same advantages aside from #8 plus some would need less development as enriched fuel versions wouldn’t need to breed. Both are worth pursuing but then we have LWR and BWR reactors ready to deploy NOW

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        Roy Hogue

        Analitik,

        Public acceptance of nuclear power is at an all time low as far as I can see. So that alone will prevent it from happening.

        On the other hand, desperation tends to change minds about what’s acceptable and what’s not. So we’ll have to wait and see what the future brings. But a lot must change before the public’s acceptance of nuclear power is at the point where it can be widely implemented.

        Do I dare mention Donald Trump’s declaration that he’ll be pro energy independence, put coal back to work, etc., etc.?

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      Hey, don’t get me wrong here, because the Thorium option is indeed a good one.

      I’m speaking here from the viewpoint of scale.

      Existing power plants of say, new technology large scale coal fired power and Nuclear Power already have the ability to provide large scale power delivery.

      Why I am saying Thorium is a long way off, well that is the ability to have operational large scale power plants, ready to be operational on the same availability as what those others are already doing, and I just don’t think Thorium can be at that level for quite some time yet.

      There are numerous other options as well, (and that’s not the renewables of choice, wind and solar) but most of them are still formative, (like pebble bed as well) and that’s a good thing, because from that will come the power plants of the future. We need to have viable operational large scale plants now, to replace those ones which have been allowed to be run into the ground, unreplaced because of a scare campaign, and Thorium is not at that level yet.

      Tony.

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    pat

    hilarious:

    22 Jul: SMH: Matthew Knott: ABC cleared of ‘anti-business’ bias in independent review
    The ABC has been cleared of systemic “anti-business” bias in a major review of its coverage, with former ANZ boss Mike Smith confessing he has rethought his negative perceptions of the broadcaster.
    As well as analysing a week’s worth of ABC programming, the review included interviews with ABC business staff and submissions from business groups, think-tanks and unions
    Fairfax Media understands the review, which has not been released publicly, is overwhelmingly positive about the ABC’s coverage overall while making some criticisms.
    Sources familiar with the review, led by longtime BBC adviser Kerry Blackburn, said they were relieved and surprised by its positive tone…

    There had been some consternation within the ABC about the decision to seek Mr Smith’s views on the broadcaster given he only stepped down as ANZ chief executive last December.
    ***”Imagine the outrage if we got Tony Abbott to review our political coverage,” one source said. “It’s bizarre.”…

    In its submission to the review, the free-market Institute for Public Affairs think-tank accused the broadcaster’s of bias, saying: “ABC news and current affairs coverage is hostile to business, too often running stories through a political and environmental prism.”
    The IPA said the ABC was particularly biased against the coal industry and gave environmental activists too much coverage…
    http://www.smh.com.au/business/media-and-marketing/abc-cleared-of-antibusiness-bias-in-independent-review-20160722-gqbp68.html

    ***apparently no political bias either?

    Independent?

    KerryBlackburn.co.uk: Who is Kerry Blackburn?
    JOURNALISM
    Editorial Adviser, BBC Trust
    Consultant, ABC Australia
    Kerry is currently in Melbourne consulting to the Board of the ABC and assisting the broadcaster in maintaining and improving editorial standards in network news and current affairs. The ABC consultancy runs alongside Kerry’s continuing role as an Editorial Adviser to the BBC Trust in the UK…

    IPA: Submission to the Editorial Review of ABC Business Coverage
    If the ABC is to have a long-term future as a public broadcaster, this attitude, particularly to those companies in the mining and non-renewable energy sector, has to change…
    There is also no good reason why mining and energy stories should continually be viewed through an environmental or political prism, or for the environment to have its own news distribution channels…
    LINK: Download document
    http://ipa.org.au/publications/2469/submission-to-the-editorial-review-of-abc-business-coverage

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    Ted O'Brien.

    Warming? Phenomenal!

    At 10 pm tonight the temperature at our local weather station was 19.5 degrees, with a 35km/h wind gusting to 53km/h. That would be at least 10 above the normal average for this time of year.

    Av max for July since 1991 is 14.3 degrees, last 5 days 18.9. Av min for July 1.3 degrees, last 5 days av 8.1 deg. Overall 5.7 degrees above average for the last 5 days.

    It is also very wet.

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    Roy Hogue

    I eagerly await Amerexit.

    After watching Donald Trump’s acceptance speech last night I can almost believe he can really get to the chair in the Oval Office.

    But the gap between the words and their fulfilment is still huge.

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      Roy Hogue

      I don’t know if there are enough sensible citizens left to pull it off.

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      Rereke Whakaaro

      I eagerly await Amerexit.

      Have I missed something? Brexit is about the UK leaving the EU. When did the US join the EU? You can’t have an Amerexit if you haven’t had an Amerjoin. That’s logik in’nit.

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        Roy Hogue

        I can’t believe you’re unable to put 2 and 2 together and come up with Amerexit relates to Clexit, not Brexit. ;-)

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    tom0mason

    Meanwhile slightly off topic, something like justice rumbles along –

    From
    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2329449/French-minister-says-IMF-boss-Christine-Lagarde-resign-charged-connection-270million-fraud-embezzlement-scam.html

    to

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-36868195

    Christine Lagarde caught spending others peoples’ money?
    What’s new?

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      tom0mason

      In moderation because the link has the words phrawd and embezzzle and scá̛m

      Sorry mod, I know I must do better…

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      Ted O'Brien.

      And she was one of the better looking ones. Did she lose it, or was I wrong?

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