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India to delay signing Paris agreement (Thank China)

India wants to be in the Nuclear Club — that’s the bargaining chip for signing the Paris agreement.

India won’t ratify the Paris agreement unless it gets membership to the Nuclear Suppliers Group (NSG) a club that was, as it happens, set up in 1974 when a naughty India set off a nuclear test. But China is completely against India earning its NSG badge. So the big two population elephants on Earth and the monster carbon emitters are not so concerned about the future of Earth that they are going to put other rivalries aside. Priorities, indeed.

Pretty much every nation on Earth has signed up for the Nuclear Non-Proliferation Treaty (NPT) – except for India, Israel, Pakistan and North Korea. In the NPT club there are five countries rated in the Platinum Frequent Flyer Bomb Class and the rest agree not to develop nuclear bombs but are (maybe) allowed to use nuclear power. Most of the few non-signers, like India, probably have bombs, but not the “license” for global bomb club membership. Now, China helps proliferate weapons in North Korea and Pakistan so it’s a tad rich that it claims to be afraid the NPT will fall apart if they let India in.

India already has something like 7 nuclear plants which make about 6000MW of electricity, so it can use nuclear power, but it also has 300 million people who don’t have any electricity and it does’t have a lot of domestic uranium. (India is even looking at thorium reactors to get around this). But its bargaining chip in the carbon game is access to the NSG club. Did Greenpeace see this coming?

As its NSG bid fails, India says Paris Climate Agreement ratification may be delayed

NEW DELHI: India’s high energy, high profile campaign to get into the NSG failed Friday morning, as China remained adamantly opposed to even considering the issue.

After a plenary meeting in Seoul, which saw Chinese diplomats attempt to block even a discussion, the 48-member nuclear cartel could not take a decision on India’s membership.

A last minute diplomatic outreach by Prime Minister Narendra Modi with Chinese president Xi Jinping also failed to cut any ice.

A big outcome of the NSG failure is that India will now not ratify the Paris Agreement anytime soon. That agreement is a key element of US President Barack Obama’s legacy.

The Indian statement says clearly, “An early positive decision by the NSG would have allowed us to move forward on the Paris Agreement.” This will be a big blow to the Obama administration which wanted India to ratify the pact so it could enter into force.

— Read the rest in Times of India

How many negotiation points or dollars must the West give up in order to entice nations like China, India or Russia to sign strawmen agreements to change the weather? Gradually does the West cede advantage and wealth in order that parasites can profit and the climbers can win Dinner Party Kudos Points?

h/t Dennis

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India to delay signing Paris agreement (Thank China), 9.3 out of 10 based on 51 ratings

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70 comments to India to delay signing Paris agreement (Thank China)

  • #
    Richard Barnett

    India, take all the time you need!

    260

  • #
    James Murphy

    There’s all the stuff which is directly associated with nuclear weapons/energy/medicine, and then there is the massive list of what seems like pretty innocuous equipment when looked at in isolation – materials, technology, and indeed, software which is classified as “dual use”. I can understand why India would want to be part of the NSG, just to make it slightly easier to sell a lot of this dual use stuff, if nothing else.

    The import/export/trade regulations are a nightmare even when all parties are signatories to the NPT and members of the NSG, so I’d hate to think what it is like for non-members dealing with members.

    40

    • #
      RobK

      India has played a straight bat all along saying it will work toward these goals in good time. It can only play with the hand it’s dealt and it’s doing so in the interest of all India. Good on her.

      40

  • #
    Peter Miller

    Greenies 0, political pragmatism 1

    Ouch, the number of people now duped by the ‘good intentions’ of China and India over supposed climate change must be numbered in their tens of millions times x, where x is a very large number.

    So Obama, don’t worry, you weren’t the only one. Sadly, you believed climate alarmists were all decent honourable people, and even more sadly, you probably still do.

    130

  • #
    Eddy Aruda

    China and India are engaged in a power struggle to control Asia. They both have nuclear weapons and they both can care less about climate change. Climate change is merely a distraction and a propaganda tool.

    The real issue is China using Pakistan to keep India in check. Pakistan has nuclear weapons and has fought conventional wars with India after both countries parted ways after gaining independence from the UK. India and China have gone to war, too.

    The most likely place on the planet for a nuclear conflict to occur is the Indian sub continent. If Pakistan and India have a nuclear exchange, climate change will be the least of their worries. A nuclear exchange between them would also leave China as the sole major power in the region.

    The Chinese communist party has but one goal: to stay in power. To the communist party, both India and Pakistan are dispensable.

    Even if a nuclear war between India and Pakistan didn’t escalate into a world war it would still be the greatest disaster to befall the human race. I pray to God it never happens. We need to rid the planet of nuclear weapons while the clock is still ticking. In global thermonuclear warfare, there are no mulligans or “do overs!”

    181

    • #
      Yonniestone

      Interesting points Eddy, the American founding fathers knew how quickly governments of countries could turn to tyranny thus the many references to it in the constitution, a reminder that sadly gets forgotten over time until history repeats.
      People were fearful of nuclear conflict during the cold war but came to the conclusion the two superpowers were intelligent enough to never engage in such warfare, with the different countries involved now it changes the rules of the old cold war nuclear stalemate agreement, in recent times considering the behaviour of certain cultures of these countries it is a very scary proposition for them to have access to such destruction.

      70

      • #
        Rereke Whakaaro

        Let us not forget that the differences between Pakistan and India are religious as well as political.

        Religious belief and political pragmatism are uncomfortable bedfellows.

        40

    • #
      tom0mason

      Good analysis Eddy.
      And may I reiterate — “The Chinese communist party has but one goal: to stay in power.”

      20

      • #
        Yonniestone

        That one goal is more poignant when you consider the Qin Dynasty started in 221 BC.

        But the EU and UN tell them they won’t cope without their expert guidance LOL!

        40

    • #
      theRealUniverse

      China is well ahead of India. In all areas of development. Xi said at the party’s (CCP. read Confucianism not communism) 95th anniversary that by the 100th there will be no poor people in China, thats 5 years time! India try that! And when China says they will..they do.

      10

      • #
        Analitik

        by the 100th there will be no poor people in China, thats 5 years time!

        Another 5 year plan? They’ve really worked well in the past.

        That statement is pure party line drivel

        20

    • #
      theRealUniverse

      WW3 will start in the EU not Asia! War games on the Russian border, the most reckless thing the neocons, read deep state US govt has ever done, worse that 1962.

      11

      • #
        ROM

        China has some very big problems with its turkic speaking islamic Ughiur population in China’s far western Xinjiang-Uighur Autonomous Region that borders the Central Asian Islamic religion Republics to China’s west.
        The Chinese Uighurs have very strong tribal and ethnic connections and considerable unofficial symapathy as a consequence in those Central Asian Republics.

        As the Uighurs are now a minority in what was their homelands in China’s west, they are treated by the Chinese Han late comers as third class citizens in their own land and consequently there is a constant low level armed rebellion under way in China’s western most which the Chinese authorities using some very drastic measures which when occasionally revealed publicly have led to considerable revulsion even in China itself as the Chinese authorities try to suppress the low level ongoing rebellion which they have never been unable to quell completely or for any length of time.

        China shares borders with more nations than any other nation.
        And that fact as you should be able to understand would arouse a level of paranoia in any nation’s leadership in that situation.

        China and its Neighbours: troubled relations
        By Wenwen Shen

        [ quoted ]

        As the most populous country in the world and third largest in area, China also has the largest number of neighbours (14) sharing its 22,000km land borders namely:
        North Korea,
        Russia,
        Mongolia,
        Kazakhstan,
        Kyrgyzstan,
        Tajikistan,
        Afghanistan,
        Pakistan,
        India,
        Nepal,
        Bhutan,
        Myanmar,
        Laos
        and Vietnam.
        China has had, or still has, border issues with some of its neighbours.

        Six of those fourteen neighbouring nations to China which have a combined population of around 240 to 250 million, are Islamic.

        [ The USA shares common borders with two nations, Mexico a which is a sort of arm's length friendly arrangement providing it stays at arm's length,
        And Canada which is a mutual friendship but the Canadians are careful to hold their noses whenever the American politicals become a bit more than just plain odoriferous and start trying to spread it around.
        And the Americans get pretty up tight if there are any prospective and very minor border arguments with only two neighbours let alone how they would react if they had 14 neighbors with common borders with themselves along the arguments involved in that! .]

        And perhaps little known here is that Muslims make up about 14.4 % of India’s population, in numbers around 176 million compared to Pakistan’s 177 million population [ 2014 ]
        India’s Muslim population accounts for about 11% of the world’s Muslims
        Muslims have a 1000 year history in India with a whole cohort of Muslim rulers in India’s past.
        The Indian Muslims are mostly followers of the Suffi tradition in Islam as are the Indonesians which has been a very, very considerable blessing from Australians point of view.
        .
        More here below and it should be read as it is beginning to infringe on our small patch down here at the bottom of it all
        .
        Why India’s Muslims Haven’t Radicalized

        00

  • #

    Well, Australia could do a lot more to lead the way, said no reasonable person. :)

    60

  • #
    mike restin

    Might be perfect timing.
    Seems democrats don’t want to play nice.
    This’ll piss off Obama and the gang.
    I found this on dailycaller by way of drudgereport.com
    http://dailycaller.com/2016/06/27/dem-party-platform-calls-for-prosecuting-global-warming-skeptics/#ixzz4CnHHPuko
    [Mike, this comment has nothing to do with India not signing the Paris non-proliferation agreement. In future, please use a more appropriate thread or an unthreaded weekend] Fly

    30

  • #
    el gordo

    In July ‘the verdict for the Philippines arbitration case on the South China Sea comes out. India must utilize the opportunity to integrate itself with Southeast Asian nations and squarely back the rule of law and international norms. India must emphasize that the question of “due procedure,” used with great dexterity by China in Seoul, cannot be applied selectively.’

    The Diplomat

    60

    • #
      el gordo

      China gives the finger to international norms, so India will probably put the Paris Agreement in the bottom draw until conditions thaw.

      ‘Experts in international law from around the world have urged the Philippines to return to the negotiating table with China to solve the South China Sea issue in a reasoned and peaceful manner.

      ‘They spoke after a weekend seminar found that any verdict delivered by an arbitration tribunal based in The Hague will have no legal validity because China and the Philippines have not reached any agreement to authorize it to intervene in the dispute.’

      China Daily

      50

  • #
    Another Ian

    A somewhat different approach

    ” As per the Brexit topic.

    A few satirical petions have been set up to re run various events in history.

    Such as the Battle of Hastings in 1066 or last Saturday’s Lottery draw.

    What event in history would you like to rerun?

    Just for fun. Let’s not be too serious”

    http://www.redpowermagazine.com/forums/topic/102120-petion-to-change-an-undesirable-event-in-history
    [Ian, this comment has nothing to do with India not signing the Paris non-proliferation agreement. In future, please use a more appropriate thread or an unthreaded weekend] Fly

    20

  • #
    • #

      That article could have been written about Australia.

      20

    • #

      Your article was well done. I think it represent most all that still retain what is called personal integrity! I have done the best I could! I do not want to correct/fix you! Do not ever attempt to fix me! If I wish to be a loudmouth equal opportunity bigot, that is between me and me. It is my cumulative work product that sets us apart. BTW the older I get, the better I used to be! :-)

      70

  • #

    There seems to be a Great Divide on coal between those who acquire lots of stuff and those who make lots of stuff.

    Could it be that stuff-makers need to burn lots of coal…even to manufacture the solar panels and wind turbines which are among the most loved accessories of the stuff-acquirers?

    Or am I thinking too deeply?

    130

    • #

      “Could it be that stuff-makers need to burn lots of coal…even to manufacture the solar panels and wind turbines which are among the most loved accessories of the stuff-acquirers?”

      It has always taken much energy to re-form mass (stuff) into some useful mass called work! A ploughed field is a good example!! :-)
      Mathematically: Work ∝ energy – entropy!!
      Note to those with some physics degree:
      Such never means that Work, with units of Joules; has any equality/resemblance to either energy with units of Joules, or to entropy with units of Joules/(arbitrary temperature).
      All the best! -will-

      20

  • #
    Another Ian

    Jo

    This just came via e-mail and might need checking by someone on Twitter but sounds about right

    “President Of The European Parliament: “It Is Not The EU Philosophy That The Crowd Can Decide Its Fate”

    On twitter!!!!”
    [If you had looked at the original Brexit thread, you would found that someone else has already addressed this] Fly

    40

  • #
    Another Ian

    And some sobering reading for those who have heard this morning’s dose of “we’ll all be roon’d” about Brexit and finances via ABC radio IMO

    https://chiefio.wordpress.com/2016/06/27/europe-and-the-united-kingdom-in-context/

    10

  • #
    Dave in the States

    Without senate ratification Paris has the same legitimacy as a counterfeit bill in the USA, anyway. I know Obama signed it on (Red) Earth Day, but that doesn’t make it legit. I know they are and have tried all kinds of re definitions and legal jargon, but it is still duplicitous and will eventually be nothing more than a powerless and shameful artifact of the corrupt Obama era.

    60

  • #
    pat

    poor Megan – i’ve had to *censor her:

    27 Jun: ClimateChangeNews: Megan Darby: EU climate plans stall as Brexit talks take over
    UK’s probable departure from the EU throws carbon cutting agenda into confusion just as countries were preparing to approve Paris climate agreement
    The uncertainty is expected to further delay Brussels’ ratification of the Paris climate agreement and plans to put its targets into practice…
    A negotiator from one EU member state described the situation as “a complete cluster*uck”…
    If the EU is to stick to its goal of a 40% emissions cut from 1990 levels, the remaining members must make more effort.
    Former UK energy and climate chief Ed Davey does not see much political will to do so, telling Climate Home: “[Brexit] is going to move the numbers more against an ambitious policy in Europe.”…
    Also under negotiation are contentious reforms to the EU emissions trading system (ETS). Greens want a stronger price signal for low carbon investment, but they are up against intensive industry lobbying against any move that could increase their costs.
    Carbon prices dipped below €5 a tonne on Monday amid fears Britain could pull out, lowering demand for pollution permits…
    (LOL) While Europe wrangles over the details, the rest of the world is accelerating efforts to bring the Paris Agreement into force…
    http://www.climatechangenews.com/2016/06/27/eu-climate-plans-stalled-as-brexit-talks-take-over/

    30

    • #
      RobK

      It’s good to see Megan has finally got a grasp of the situation from the negotiator. It’s what we’ve been saying all along.

      20

      • #
        Analitik

        Megan Darby should collaborate with RewewEconomy’s Sophie Vorrath on reporting about climate change and political and industrial solutions.

        It would make hilarious reading.

        00

  • #
    Roy Hogue

    Remind me please, just how does this nuclear non proliferation thingy work? After giving Iran a clear green light to make a bomb what’s left of the non proliferation idea?

    Not much I think.

    But at least if the rivalry between India and China can keep one or hopefully both of them out of the Paris agreement, maybe that’s a good thing.

    50

    • #
      Roy Hogue

      It’s time, no, past time for the west to look out for it’s security first in an ever increasingly dangerous world. Non proliferation don’t look so good anymore. It’s broken.

      30

    • #
      Yonniestone

      I have no problem with Iran testing nuclear weapons under one strict provision, the Obama’a and Clinton’s have to watch it at ground zero.

      60

      • #
        RoHa

        Nice idea, Yonniestone. The trouble is that there isn’t, and never was, any indication that Iran is going to make a nuclear bomb. We’ve all been hearing “Iran will have a nuke in two years” for more than twenty years, but it has all been just a beat-up from the usual suspects.

        31

        • #
          RoHa

          And Iran is, of course, a signatory to the NTP.

          30

        • #
          Yonniestone

          This site here claims to have facts & figures on Iran’s nuclear potential, it’s dated Nov 2015 but as you stated many more warnings have been issued since, honestly by now I had expected Obama to offer Iran a fully functional warhead as a good will gesture.

          50

          • #
            RoHa

            “Iran’s nuclear potential”

            Yeah, Iran probably can produce a nuke or two. But there is no sign that they intend to. Just a load of propaganda that has been going on for years.

            21

        • #
          Mark D.

          You one of them that needs to see the mushroom cloud to shake your head up from the sand?

          20

        • #
          Geoffrey Williams

          Mind you if they did ever manage to get their hands on one they might accidentally set it off and blow themselves up.Now there’a thought . . .
          GeoffW

          20

        • #
          Roy Hogue

          NTP? I guess you would rely on that. And of course, gun control laws have worked well to keep guns out of the hands of criminals, right? Well, am I right?

          Sometimes I despair of finding people who can read the handwriting on the wall. I really do?

          Every pipsqueak in the world wants the bomb. It’s a “me too” thing if nothing else, a matter of prestige and status. And on top of that Iran wants to destroy us and they say so at every opportunity. And we’re entitled to believe them; take their statements at face value. Of course they want the bomb. And we’ve given them back their frozen assets and a few extra billion on top of that to work with.

          00

      • #
        Roy Hogue

        Wouldn’t you rather put a certain religious leader and the figurehead president on ground zero for that test? And if we could get Kim Jung Un to join them for the demonstration, how much better would that be?

        00

    • #

      Remind me please, just how does this nuclear non proliferation thingy work

      It’s been updated to prosperity non-proliferation. IMF, World Bank, UN, EU, etc. all support it.

      50

  • #
    tom0mason

    As the only come back is to be ‘named and shamed’ for not upholding the Paris agreement, hopefully India will continue unashamedly defy the signatories to dumbest international treaty every devised.

    Maybe the new BrexitUK could re-establish trade ties with India to fill in the gaps in goods and service previously provided by EU nations.

    60

  • #
    pat

    Ed finds self-interested analysts to provide a positive spin:

    27 Jun: ClimateChangeNews: Ed King: Paris climate deal approval on course, say analysts
    PHOTO CAPTION: The US and India agreed to fast-track approval of the Paris agreement at a meeting between Obama and Modi earlier this year
    Under a scenario published by Climate Analytics (LINK), a global network of policy specialists, 50 countries covering 53.28% of global emissions are likely to sign off the UN pact by the end of 2016…
    The figure excludes all European countries bar Norway and Switzerland, which are not part of the EU and thus do not have to wait for all member states to gain domestic approval before joining the agreement…
    All assumptions on the speed of ratification bar Brazil were made based on public statements from governments, said ***Hare. Brasilia’s plans were shared by internal sources.
    A Brazilian government official speaking on background confirmed the country’s aim to ratify in 2016 to Climate Home.
    (LOL) According to the Economic Times, India, which accounts for over 4% of global emissions, is working on a national climate law as part of its plans to join the agreement in 2016…
    http://www.climatechangenews.com/2016/06/27/paris-climate-deal-approval-on-course-say-analysts/

    ***Dr. Bill Hare, CEO and Managing Director / Senior Scientist
    Co-founder of Climate Analytics, physicist and climate scientist with 25 years’ experience in science, impacts and policy responses to climate change and stratospheric ozone depletion. He is lead author of the World Bank Turn Down the Heat reports and the IPCC AR4. His work has been recently published in Nature Climate Change, Nature, Climatic Change, Regional Environmental Change, Climate Policy

    Climate Anaytics – Funders
    http://climateanalytics.org/about-us/partners-and-funders.html

    30

  • #
    Another Ian

    Buy popcorn shares by the look of this

    “Italy eyes €40bn bank rescue as first Brexit domino falls ”

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2016/06/27/italy-eyes-40bn-bank-rescue-as-first-brexit-domino-falls/

    Via a comment at Chiefio

    40

    • #
      Dennis

      Try to imagine the world today if there never was an EU, if European countries had continued to be sovereign nations with free trade agreements where practical and borders controlled.

      And if natural Earth Cycles had been dealt with as part of life and not as a political agenda.

      80

      • #
        ROM

        Another Ian @ #18

        Strange!
        And here innocent little old me was almost believing the Media that it would be the British who were facing a major financial disaster from the Brexit vote as all those fabled financial “experts” and the Ghouls and vampire like blood suckers vacated the The City in London and fled to Paris and Milan and Brussels and Geneva and other salubrious EU locations to ensure their Alladin Cave’s stocking up of further largesse which is already of monstrous financial proportions, would not be disrupted by some sensible and pragmatic British financial legislation.

        10

  • #
    el gordo

    India was only paying lip service.

    ‘Despite the hopes of the US, India may not be able to stick to the emission timeline on the climate change agreement made in Paris last year, government officials have indicated. White House officials indicated that it is their understanding that India completes process during this year, before President Barack Obama’s term expires in November. But top government officials have told NDTV that India is “unlikely to sign the agreement this year, or even the next.’

    NDTV, 8 June 2016 (Atlas Monitor)

    60

    • #
      Dennis

      In between times and long after India will continue to construct new coal fired power stations and some nuclear powered too because they want to improve the quality of life for the people and to continue to build their economy and national prosperity.

      Ask what Australian politicians (too many of them) want for us.

      50

  • #
    Gordon

    Awesome!

    30

  • #
    pat

    just saying there are some hilarious BREXIT pieces – Julie Burchill by design, Richard Branson by being Branson, plus some other stuff on jo’s previous “EU Panic…” BREXIT thread.

    27 Jun: NDTV: China Suggests Nuclear Club NSG May Not Open For India Later This Year
    After India blamed “one country” for keeping it from joining the elite Nuclear Suppliers Group or NSG, China has retaliated, stating that “many countries” expressed concerns about membership for nations that have not signed the Non-Proliferation Treaty…
    However, Delhi has been encouraged by the news that the NSG has named Argentine Ambassador Rafael Grossi as a facilitator for informal consultations on India’s admission, and that there will be another NSG meeting towards the end of the year to look at admission of countries that have not signed the non-proliferation treaty, including India.
    But indicating its inclination to continue thwarting India, “we have never heard of any follow up steps,” said the Chinese foreign ministry spokesperson…
    India already enjoys most of the benefits of membership under a 2008 exemption to NSG rules granted to support its nuclear cooperation deal with Washington.
    http://www.ndtv.com/india-news/as-india-holds-out-hope-for-nsg-nuclear-club-china-remains-firm-1423950

    10

  • #
    Egor TheOne

    It’s time for ‘Climexit’.

    To the Paris True B’lver Hajj: https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/736x/31/0e/18/310e1837e4acad7670b055c691df392b.jpg

    21

  • #
    Geoffrey Williams

    And if India won’t sign – why would China?
    The perfect stand off.
    GeoffW

    20

  • #
    toorightmate

    India, China, USA, whoever, please, please do something.
    It’s ccccold.

    30

  • #
    • #

      No sense pretending that this is a secret plan of any sort.

      It’s a public declaration of the desire to form an empire run by the Germans and the French.

      France and Germany recognise their responsibility to reinforce solidarity and cohesion within the European Union.

      Read the whole thing to get an idea of the totality of their “vision”.

      Meanwhile keep in mind that Christiana Figueres said Britain’s decision to leave the EU meant the Paris agreement would need to be redrawn. If the words change, none of the signatures remains valid. A contract cannot be changes without the agreement of all signatories.

      30

      • #
        TdeF

        The critical word is army. A European army. In a nuclear world, to fight whom precisely? Russia? China? The US? That was the old purpose of an army. The new purpose is to control the population in the superstate. Forget police forces, the new German/French army would control their own people. Only Britain would stand outside, once again.

        40

  • #
    ROM

    What is to become Airstrip One of the supra state Oceania which includes the British Isles, the Western Hemisphere, Southern Africa and Australasia, has now separated from what will be the core of Eurasia extending from the Straits of Gibraltar to the Magadan in Eastern Siberia.

    Eastasia has as its core territories all of those former nations of China, Korea, Japan and Indo China.

    Then there are the classes;

    (I) the upper-class Inner Party, the elite ruling minority, who make up 2% of the population.[ think EU Commission and EU Council plus UN secretariat. ]

    (II) the middle-class Outer Party, who make up 13% of the population. [ The EU and UN’s army of ineffective overpaid, over sexed and over there EU and UN Bureaucrats.

    (III) the lower-class Proles (from proletariat), who make up 85% of the population and represent the uneducated working class.

    All that the EU now needs if this report is correct is the equivalent of Big Brother and George Orwell and his 1984 will become one of the greatest prophecy’s that mankind has ever seen.

    10

    • #
      ROM

      Damn ! Posted # 26 above in the wrong headline post and article

      Should have been in Jo’s latest post; Plans for an EU superstate to dissolve nations “into one

      Thats what you get when doing research, have a number of sites open including Jo’s blog posts open twice

      Will repost in correct headline post article

      10