JoNova

A science presenter, writer, speaker & former TV host; author of The Skeptic's Handbook (over 200,000 copies distributed & available in 15 languages).


Handbooks

The Skeptics Handbook

Think it has been debunked? See here.

The Skeptics Handbook II

Climate Money Paper


Advertising

micropace


GoldNerds

The nerds have the numbers on precious metals investments on the ASX



Archives

Books

Brexit reporting — nobody mention “Switzerland” or “Norway”

Both sides of Brexit were shocked — the Remainers because they have never met a Brexiteer nor bothered to read their arguments. And The Brexiters were a bit shocked too — amazed that despite the big-media bias, puffed up economic scare and the blanket of institutional warnings, the public can still fight off big-gov with their votes in a bloodless coup. It’s a rare win.

Who wants to be tied to an economic basketcase?

Under the media shock and warnings of  the recession coming almost no one mentioned “Switzerland”, or “Norway“. Here’s the GDP growth graph from the World Bank showing just how well the EU fares compared to the non-EU countries of Australia, New Zealand, Canada, The US, Switzerland and Norway. Note the success of the EU red line which in nearly every year is outdone by nearly everyone else. The economic disaster that the UK faces is better GDP growth.

EU GDP Growth 2008 - 2015, World Bank, compared to non-EU nations, Switzerland, NZ, US

EU GDP Growth 2008 – 2015, World Bank, compared to non-EU nations, Switzerland, NZ, US

The reasons to leave the EU were so compelling the amazing thing is that 48% of the public still voted to stay. Chalk that “success” up to the media, and on an education system that doesn’t teach children about logic reason and how to spot fallacious arguments.

From Tallblokes site:

Brexit, reasons to leave.

 

VN:F [1.9.22_1171]
Rating: 9.4/10 (123 votes cast)
Brexit reporting -- nobody mention "Switzerland" or "Norway", 9.4 out of 10 based on 123 ratings

Tiny Url for this post: http://tinyurl.com/j4amyrw

212 comments to Brexit reporting — nobody mention “Switzerland” or “Norway”

  • #

    The Leftist media hasn’t stopped yet, it’s doing everything in it’s power to maintain the hysteria about world doom. Their ABC and the rAGE doing what they do best, perhaps because of the upcoming elections here as well as in the US. Keep it up I say, the more hysterical that they get, the more people will become fed up with their caterwauling.

    611

    • #
      Peter C

      The reaction of the left wing press including the Age and the ABC has been shock, horror, visceral pain, disbelief , denial and anger. How did this happen?

      Well we all have one vote and that is obviously a problem. There are people who would like to stop that. Stand by for much fury and hissing or maybe worse.

      571

      • #
        AndyG55

        “Stand by for much fury and hissing or maybe worse.”

        And try not to hurt yourself laughing ! :-)

        If they just said, “Oh well, we lost”… it wouldn’t be anywhere near as much fun. :-)

        421

        • #
          Yonniestone

          What a bunch of sooks, find the biggest ones and throw them behind another iron or bamboo curtain, I’m bloody sick of the whining!

          241

          • #
            Mike

            “”Bread and circuses” (or bread and games; from Latin: panem et circenses) is metonymic for a superficial means of appeasement. In the case of politics, the phrase is used to describe the generation of public approval, not through exemplary or excellent public service or public policy, but through diversion; distraction; or the mere satisfaction of the immediate, shallow requirements of a populace,[1] as an offered “palliative”. Its originator, Juvenal, used the phrase to decry the selfishness of common people and their neglect of wider concerns.[2][3][4] The phrase also implies the erosion or ignorance of civic duty amongst the concerns of the commoner.”
            From Wikipedia:https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bread_and_circuses

            140

          • #
            TheJester

            So, this is democracy and you like this method of dealing with political issues? How about referenda to settle required action on climate change?

            http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2016/04/18/what-the-world-thinks-about-climate-change-in-7-charts/

            124

            • #
              James Murphy

              I welcome the chance to vote in a referendum, or plebiscite on any issue, at any time. It’s the most direct and democratic means to establish what the populace think about a topic. Bring it on.

              I imagine I will not always be happy with the results of such things, but I would be satisfied that the will of the people has been made clear, and has not been forced through a filter of what I see as increasingly unrepresentative (misrepresentative?) politicians of all political persuasions.

              How about you, “TheJester”, are you a supporter of democracy for all, or do you believe only certain people within a very narrow age should be allowed to vote – as long as they vote the same way as you?

              291

              • #
                Rick Bradford

                I would welcome the chance to vote in a referendum on climate change.

                You have to make the choice clear:

                Would You Agree To Spend Trillions of Dollars to Reduce Earth’s Temperature by 0.05°C?

                210

            • #
              tom0mason

              TheJester
              I’m heartened to see you have categorized “..action on climate change?” as a political issue and not a scientific one. Well done!

              280

            • #
              Roy Hogue

              Jester,

              Would you be willing to live without comment or complaint with the result of a referendum about dealing with climate change if it went against you?

              From what little you’ve said on this blog I suspect you would not. I also suspect you are as ignorant of what constitutes sound argument based on facts rather than opinion that you cannot even attempt to evaluate the positions of others, whatever they may be and see if they make any sense as regards facts, you know, those things that everyone can see and understand because they are as obvious as sunrise.

              So in case you need to hear it. Global warming theory long ago parted ways with what is actually happening.

              Theory: temperature must continue to rise as CO2 builds up in the atmosphere.

              Actual fact: temperature has not continued to rise, even though CO2 continues to increase. In fact actual evidence shows a cooling trend may be underway.

              I don’t know what will happen in the future. And from the actual evidence of your understanding that you show me, neither do you. Yet you bluster like a volcano belching clouds of smoke and ash. Pathetic is the only word I can think of to describe your understanding of what’s going on.

              191

            • #
              Roy Hogue

              By the way, democracy is a messy business and sometimes very ugly. It’s a real problem and sometimes does not work out well. The only problem is that every other system of government ever tried has been even worse. And were you a better student of history you would not be complaining.

              In case you missed it, people have risked their lives to get out of socialism, communism, dictatorships, a long list of things with different names but all amounting to totalitarian control of people, into democracy. So complain away if you must but you already have it as good as it can get.

              201

              • #
                Duster

                The US Constitution includes the Bill of Rights by and large to protect individuals FROM democracy. There is no such thing as a perfect governmental system, certainly none that will always do the right thing. That said, so far every other system the human race has tried is as bad or worse.

                00

            • #
              Radical Rodent

              From where do these figures come, Joker? When we see “90% of Brazilians”, do they truly mean 90% of Brazilians, or 90% of those Brazilians polled? If the latter, what was the means of selection for polling? Bearing in mind that the evidence is growing that polling is not giving a real reflection of the populace, why is this figure given as some kind of “truth”? Could it not be possible that this 90% could be as real as Cooke’s 97%?

              Can you give us any example of events that can be categorically identified as caused by climate change? If not, then the fears of this 90% could be equated to those fears built up during the UK referendum about economic collapse, world war 3, etc, etc.

              110

              • #
                Rereke Whakaaro

                When we see “90% of Brazilians”

                I read that as, Ten Brazilians were posed a question, and only one disagreed.

                Since we have no idea how that question was phrased, and how those questioned interpreted and understood the question, we still have no idea what the result means.

                If nobody knows what the result means, everybody thinks that it refers to their pet belief.

                120

            • #
              cohenite

              Great idea jester; as long as the sceptics have the same funding and air and media time as the alarmists.

              70

              • #
                Bite Back

                That might be a very nice situation for the skeptics. Therefore it will probably never happen. They can’t stand up to an honest debate.

                BB

                20

      • #
        delcon2

        I have already voted and you can be sure that I didn’t vote for any of these”Lying,Do Nothing,Career Politicians”We “The People”can make a difference if we don’t vote for the major parties.Don’t throw your vote away.Make them pay for what they have”Not”done for our country.

        30

    • #
      PeterS

      The leftists always wanted a one-world totalitarian government (much the extreme right national socialists) and the EU was their stepping stone to that goal. They are now whinging and crying it has taken a big step backwards.

      341

      • #
        climateskeptic

        Are you a Leftist Peter?

        223

        • #
          Heywood

          Looking for a mate?

          131

        • #
          Mike

          That’s like describing one football team against another. Sport

          40

        • #
          AndyG55

          52%

          Makes it RIGHT !!!

          You poor little child… desperate, and again…….. ALONE !!

          81

          • #
            Ted O'Brien.

            Andy. 52% v 48% at the referendum.

            If the same people voted again tomorrow, what would the result be?

            Logic tells me that the number of ambivalent voters who voted Remain would greatly outnumber the number of ambivalent voters who voted Leave. Many of those would go with the flow, and I would expect a rerun would show 60/40 or even more voting to leave.

            So the community is not really split down the middle. 52/48 is not as close a result as at first appears. it has served to break down the barrier.

            10

        • #
          OriginalSteve

          Bah ……the EU is often referred to by the Ruskies as the European Soviet….. They should know……

          I keep asking why anyone would object to stop being economically paralysed while their bank account was emptied …….

          The Remain vote is like encouraging Stockholm Syndrome for a whole country.

          Well done the Brits ……!!!!

          240

        • #
          PeterS

          Am I a leftists? No way! Socialism of all kinds, left or right are corrupt and evil. So is capitalism to a certain extent but at least there’s some freedom. I like Churchill’s quote: “The inherent vice of capitalism is the unequal sharing of blessings; the inherent virtue of socialism is the equal sharing of miseries.”

          310

    • #
      Sane Canadian

      The really amusing part is that anybody with a brain could have predicted this result. When a nation allows an unelected, unaccountable bureaucracy to rule over it, it is NOT a nation any longer. The brits figured this out.

      190

  • #
    el gordo

    Jeremy Corbyn, Labor leader and closet sceptic, sacks AGW zealot Hilary Benn.

    220

    • #
      • #
        • #
          climateskeptic

          The dust is starting to settle alright and the Brexit has started

          HSBC would move up to 1,000 staff from London to Paris if the UK left the single market, following Britain’s vote to leave the EU

          and

          Yesterday sources told the BBC that up to 2,000 jobs at the US investment bank Morgan Stanley could be moved from London to Dublin or Frankfurt.

          http://www.bbc.com/news/business-36629745

          222

          • #
            AndyG55

            “HSBC would move up to 1,000 staff from London to Paris ”

            lol.

            WOULD, COULD, MAYBE, PERHAPS..

            Have you got any other words?

            111

          • #
            Gavin

            They have actually said they would move the jobs if the UK left the trading block, which is an entirely different thing and not going to happen. They don’t give a toss about the EU any more than the majority of UK voters. France and Italy are more Eurosceptic than the UK. The EU as it existed last week is toast.

            90

          • #
            delcon2

            Ah yes,but Boeing are talking about moving their operation to the UK.

            70

          • #
            Ross

            So they’re shifting a few jobs to another branch office , so what.
            This sort of thing happens all the time , particularly with marketing staff, in many corporates.
            How many are left in London ?

            10

        • #
          • #
            AndyG55

            52%

            THAT sums up BREXIT !!

            181

          • #
            el gordo

            This is the real fight.

            ‘Even before the Brexit vote, there had been data suggesting an overlap between those who wanted Britain out of the E.U. and those who deny or question aspects of climate change. Boris Johnson, the former London mayor who was a key leader of the Brexit campaign (and is now being eyed as the next prime minister), has drawn criticism from climate scientists for his writings about climate change, the weather and the influence of the sun on the climate.’

            The Washington Post

            170

            • #
              Roy Hogue

              Climate change, like it or not appears everywhere these days. I do my best to ignore it unless something will impact me directly. It looks futile to argue against it with most people you would meet on the street. They rely on authority or plain old repetition to advise them, both a very bad reason to believe something and that’s where their heads are on the subject.

              I wish I could say otherwise but I can’t.

              60

              • #
                Roy Hogue

                I find myself wondering if there isn’t something in comment between the Brexit vote to leave EU and the success of Donald Trump. Both appear to be based on a sometimes vague but longstanding feeling that something is terribly wrong without being able to quantify and describe what actually is wrong. This is probably not true for some. But for many Trump supporters it certainly is. And they speak their dissatisfaction in very general terms.

                I don’t see anything necessarily wrong about this. But I find it hard personally to have a position I can’t support in considerable detail. So maybe I’m not the best observer?

                40

              • #
                Roy Hogue

                “..something in common…”

                Not enough coffee yet. ;-)

                30

              • #
                Ross

                Roy I think there are a lot of similarities between the Trump support and the Leave support. At the core, it is people are sick of being told “take it or leave it” from the polis.( You could use other expressions but it is all the same –being told how to think).The internet has changed everything and people now realise what has been happening. The politicians haven’t been able to adapt.

                Just look at Obama telling the UK voters that UK will be “at back of the queue ” for trade negotiations if they vote leave –now I’m sure he has used similar bullying tactics in the USA (eg. how he is using the EPA).

                Then we had Juncker a day before the vote saying UK voters needed to know that there will be no more negotiation over how the EU operates — basically “plebs , pull your heads in the elite have decided”.

                Trump knows that decision making power is being centralised in DC and that’s why he talking of devolving power back to the states and communities.
                Similarly the UK voters saw their destiny being run by people they did not even know in Brussels.

                80

              • #
                Roy Hogue

                Ross,

                I still have trouble reading Trump and figuring out what he’ll actually do. But I’m sure of one thing about him. He’s a long way out in front of Hillary when it comes to what counts as a leader. He’s actually done significant tings, lifelong. Hillary has done nothing significant except surround herself with scandal, also lifelong.

                I’m still in doubt that Trump can win. :-(

                Obama is vindictive. So to displease him will pretty much guarantee some kind of retribution. Thankfully he’s on his way out.

                00

        • #
          AndyG55

          The BREXIT opposition is FALLING APART.

          111

    • #
      tom0mason

      Oh no, sacked the career politician who is Viscount Stansgate son.

      100

      • #
        tom0mason

        Yep, he’s a real socialist —

        His father, maverick socialist Tony Benn, renounced his hereditary title of Viscount Stansgate and shortened his birthname of Anthony Neil Wedgwood Benn – but his son still inherited part of their multi-million pound fortune.

        The Benn dynasty, based out of the huge family estate, Stansgate Abbey in Essex, started with Hilary’s grandfather – a baronet’s son who was made 1st Viscount Stansgate after a successful career as a Labour politician.

        http://www.sunnation.co.uk/labour-toff-watch/

        160

      • #
        tom0mason

        Not that I’m trying to say that socialists can not be rich — they often are. The point I’m making is that the UK Labour party is the party full of, though desperately trying not to publicly represent, the upper middle class. (see http://www.spectator.co.uk/2013/09/socialist-climbing/ )
        IMO the problem was the leader of the UK Labour party was at heart a BREXIT man but so many of the champagne socialist around him and in his shadow cabinet were not.
        ¯

        When it came to the vote people saw the Tory’s tearing themselves apart over the (media inspired) big issues. The Tory’s kept putting out very downbeat and fear-filled messages, the stance was to highlight the negative, trying to show a leap in the dark is always wrong, always ends badly. There appeared to be no positive messages about remaining in EU that stuck with many voter. All seemed very negative.
        And all the while the Labour party was staying relatively quiet, enjoying the Conservative’s hurt — through this noise and confusion came the BREXIT parties.
        ¯

        By far Nigel Farrage was the loudest, and he got his message out.
        Known as a ex-EU MEP (member of the European Parliament) who knew all the nastiness inside the organization. His message cut through the fog of faux issues and dire warnings to presented an uplifting positive view of leaving — more independence, better trade with the rest of the world, more control over boarders and migrants, more government accountability.
        His message was in the main relentlessly positive about leaving the EU. He used every and any trick he could to breakthrough the BBC resistance to carry his message. It worked. Many people liked his bolshy go-ahead attitude, many like his brand of politics — no nonsense tell it as he sees it, warts and all.
        Easily Farrage won it for many voters.

        331

  • #
    Geoff Sherrington

    Too bad our Australian pollies will now not go anywhere near a referendum style of asking the people.

    270

    • #

      Why do you think the Left is against a referendum on gay marriage? I have nothing against gays or gay relationships, but this is another one of those issues that’s not that far removed from what drove Brexit. Interestingly, as Milo Yiannopoulos posited during one of his university tours of the US, the only reason the Left hates him is because he’s a conservative gay. The Left has no consistency.

      341

    • #
      ianl8888

      Instead, Cassandra suggests that the mooted plebiscite on SSM will be wriggled out of … fear of losing, fear of questions about adoption of children into male-male relationships etc.

      The leftoids are trying as hard as they can to kill the plebiscite. It seems likely to Cassandra that Lord Waffle will find a sneaky way to accomodate them.

      BTW, I had intended to vote YES, with the proviso that that the protagonists shut up about it now. I’m quiter tired of the incessant din.

      81

      • #

        Indeed, there are far more pressing issues in Australia than gay marriage. In the last few years in my neck of the woods I haven’t heard one comment on that issue, but Brexit has been a regular topic from both sides. I meet locals of all persuasions on a regular basis and get a reasonable feel for what this often vociferous Green community in which I live in considers important.

        81

      • #
        delcon2

        Why is it that”Most Leftoids”are either,Homo’s,Lesso’s.or Kiddy Fiddlers”?

        40

  • #

    And now the lefties want “best of 3″ LOL with around half a million more people signing a petition to register their disagreement with the agreed process than voted to remain. The hide of it is pretty much breath taking, but when you know what is best for everyone, having a hide like a concrete rhino seems par for the course.

    http://www.abc.net.au/news/2016-06-25/petition-for-second-eu-referendum-reaches-one-million-signatures/7543860

    260

    • #
      Peter C

      I think it is an on-line petition not a written down one with actual signatures. It is much easier to click a response on your mobile phone than to actually get out and do something like attend a polling both, possibly in the rain and the dark.

      Also people can probably vote many times in an on-line poll. That is one way to solve the problem of only one vote per person.

      411

      • #
        AndyG55

        The world is full of permanently disgruntled socialist totalitarians.

        421

        • #
          ROM

          Please Folks, be very careful what you say about the “Snowflakes” the last and most emotionally and intellectually lightweight generation we have seen since the 1920′s.

          Many of them are very ephemeral emotionally and get to throw all sorts of tantrums and go into a quite spectacular emotional melt down if they don’t get their own way every time there is a slight contretemps about about their idealistic socialistic ideology as we are seeing in the anti-Brexit referendum re-call farce.

          221

      • #
        Another Ian

        Various “petition comments at

        http://bishophill.squarespace.com/unthreaded/

        ” …A 3.5million UK/US/Candadian/MadeUpName petition to redo the vote !! is today’s news

        Jun 25, 2016 at 10:15 PM | Registered Commenterstewgreen ”

        stewgreen:

        Bang on over the 2nd referendum petition, the json data on the petition’s page shows most of the signatures originate from outside the UK, or are multiple posts from UK email addresses (most of which appear to be from MPs HoC accounts). There are claims it is an anonymous hack.

        Jun 26, 2016 at 12:50 AM | Registered CommenterSalopian

        @Salopian Yes of course 2m signatures within 3 days breaks the “too wow to be true” rule.

        ..so a bot/hack is the more likely explanation

        ..Although none of the thicko journalists have yet showed skepticsm..just picked it up and run cos it goes with their narrative …usual manner.

        Jun 26, 2016 at 1:52 AM | Registered Commenterstewgreen “

        200

        • #
          OriginalSteve

          I suspect the Remain Leftists will wasnt to keep forcing people to get the result that wanted, not how people voted……

          All referendum outcomes are equal, unless the demented totalitarian leftists dont agree of course…..in which case the Leftists can all leave the UK if they like,

          I am sure most Brits will be very happy to stick them in a boat and help them leave Blighty….

          20

      • #
        Peter C

        Yes I thought so. Clicking on the link that safetyguy gave lets you vote. Just make up as many names and email addresses as you like to record multiple votes.

        I hope some one checks up on the petitioners

        150

    • #

      There is another petition asking HM Government:

      “HM Government should support the electorates’ decision to leave the EU.
      The majority of British electorate voted to leave the European Union, and HM Government as representatives of the electorate should uphold the democratic vote.”

      So far the Petitions Committee are holding it back:
      “We need to check it meets the petition standards before we publish it.

      Please try again in a few days.”

      150

    • #
      Reed Coray

      I’m sure that if “remain” had won the lefties would be clamoring for a best of 3, followed by a best of 5, etc.(/sarc) The left and losing elections mix like oil and water. Just ask Al Gore and Al Franken. The democratic party motto is: “If you lose, ask for recounts ad infinitum until you get the result you want, and then declare the result the will of the people.”

      Another thing. When the issue is global warming, leftists think the only people who should be allowed to vote are the “experts,” which requires wisdom acquired over time–i.e., older people. However, when the issue is economic, leftists think the only people who should be allowed to vote are the ones who will suffer the consequences for the longest period of time–i.e., younger people. Why don’t they condense their “voting rationale” mottos into a single all encompassing motto–to wit: “The only people who should be allowed to vote are the people who agree with us?”

      92

    • #
      MurrayA

      There’s a good old-fashioned two-word term for this, viz. “sour grapes”!
      The left have an almost unlimited supply of them.

      52

  • #
    TdeF

    The howling of the Remain group and the coming nastiness of the EU bosses are both very obvious. The EU wants Britain and the presumptive British people punished severely and immediately. Why? Only now will people realise the choice was to do what you are told or else! The Common Market was a good idea. The EU is a multi national communist government where elections are a sham.

    However despite the ample time to make the Stay argument, I have yet to read a single cogent argument for staying. Emotion yes. Threats yes. Endless prophecies of doom too and vague economic arguments from the same class of people who also think a carbon tax will save the planet. Then you get the upper classes, the rich classes, the merchant bankers, the multinationals and the huge bureaucratic classes in Brussels. I am loathe to call them public servants as there is no government and there are no politicians with any power and these people levy the taxes they want on anyone and any country they choose without restraint. They are a noveau riche bureaucratic class who want to control everyone and everything and now want to punish the ordinary British people. Best be rid of them and Britain can find its own way.

    The funny thing is, no one knows what it all means, which means no one knows who is currently running the place and the ordinary Britons have no idea what happens next. However it is pretty clear the EU bureaucrats are very angry with the very unwelcome reappearance of democracy and the imminent loss of all those billions in cash. They want more, not less. Heads will roll. Whose is the question.

    372

    • #
      tom0mason

      Exactly!

      Here is an outline of a very difference path they could have taken –
      ¯
      An alliance of trading states, or a confederation of states.
      Elected representatives in a small EU government. EU Government paid for by levy of x% of each nations GDP.
      EU government must set and maintain financial health targets of itself and oversees and advises all states. They all must pass five year audits.
      Local governments enacting local laws; moving them to a common EU form over time.
      Laws to be enforced by each state’s police plus a small union police force to oversee and coordinate cross border measures, international crime prevention, etc.
      The EU government to oversee the harmonization of standards for utilities and the minimums set for safety, health and welfare.
      A common currency for import/export outside the the EuroZone and for internal loans to fellow states at preferential rates. But then retain, internally, the individual national currencies (these may not be used for external trading) local currency values float in value internally against each other and against the Euro.

      A socio-political-financal union of states NO!

      150

      • #
        OriginalSteve

        EU= abusive relationship

        140

        • #
          AZ1971

          EU= abusive relationship

          That’s actually an incredibly astute analogy you made. A bigger, stronger partner smacks around the weaker one, and once the abuse has been meted out, says “I love you, I’m sorry, it won’t ever happen again, don’t leave me”—only to throw a tantrum in short order and beat the piss out of the victim once more (perhaps via another few hundred EU regulations).

          It takes a while but eventually the victim tires of the abuser’s actions and seeks an end to the abuse. And some, however, truly believe the lies and never leave.

          140

    • #
      TheJester

      The howling of the Remain group and the coming nastiness of the EU bosses are both very obvious.

      Hilarious. Britain makes a decision to remove itself from a union purely on self-serving, self-interest grounds but then expects niceness, fairness and generosity from those they dudded.

      Billions have been lost and it will cost Billions more and yet there has not been a single argument or rationale for this act of anarchy. Nothing except a fear of being over run by people fleeing atrocities and hardship in other countries – in other words, a fear of having to meet the cost of giving to those in need.

      Little wonder that a blog authored and loved by sociopaths applauds a sociopathic outcome.

      And still so scared of counter -argument she has to have my comments censored. Hypocritical, dishonest and cowardly.

      [So now that this is published where is your apology?] ED

      126

      • #
        James Murphy

        Thanks for proving yet again that the ‘remain’ argument is full of hot air and bluster, and is missing anything factual, or objective.

        222

      • #
        Mari C

        ” Britain makes a decision to remove itself from a union purely on self-serving, self-interest grounds but then expects niceness, fairness and generosity from those they dudded.”

        Why, if I leave a group I am no longer interested in being a member of, having paid my dues but now finding better uses for them, should I be punished, or even to some sort of blame?

        Why should any group, in leaving a larger group, be held to blame for finding a different path, or for deciding the common ground was no longer common? Why should the larger group think they are justified in acting poorly because of this? I would think they’d be grateful – a lessening of discontent, a lessening of the complaints, attempts to make changes, foment insurrection.

        IMO, Britain should be given the equivalent of a retirement watch, or clock, and good wishes. For the EU to act petty and childish is a blow to itself, and will perhaps cause other members to rethink their choice to stay. Punishment? If the idiots had half a lick of sense they’d be all smiles and handshakes.

        To act otherwise is proving that they are the [snip] mediocre thugs some people have described them as. Perhaps they are.

        [Editorial discretion applied.] AZ

        130

        • #
          delcon2

          We are after all,talking about the “Bureaurcrats”in Brussels.They have continually been giving the”Bird”to the people of the UK for many years.The “Elites”heads are exploding.Fun to watch,is it not?

          71

      • #
        Roy Hogue

        Hilarious. Britain makes a decision to remove itself from a union purely on self-serving, self-interest grounds but then expects niceness, fairness and generosity from those they dudded.

        Jester,

        Whether you believe it or not and whether you like it or not, self interest is legitimate. I can count on only a couple of fingers of one hand the number of times I’ve found anyone except my parents looking out for me, my financial well being or any other compelling interest I have. The plain fact is that only those I pay for their services will look out for me, brokers, doctors, even Internet service providers and software vendors all need to be paid to look out for me or they wont do it. So I have no choice but to look out for my self interest.

        The UK was being run roughshod over by a government they had no choice about, one that was not looking out for the UK even though the UK was paying that government. So damned right they wanted out. I don’t think they expect any nice treatment from those they, in your words, “dudded.” I think they’ll be attacked for their cheek for along time and have to withstand it.

        I also think there’s a big problem now in the UK and they better stop the infighting among the two factions, stay and leave, admit that they have opted out and settle down to make their country something better than it was under the EU. Because if they don’t they’ll become bogged down in the fight, the complaining and the recrimination and become as paralyzed as the U.S. has become. The choice is theirs to make. No one can force them to do it. Being successful is hard work, Jester. If the young are not up to that they will fail, one way or another.

        Having taken such a good step forward it will be a great tragedy if they cannot pull off the rest of the job, doing that hard work to become successful again on their own.

        And by the way, about that apology ED called to your attention, you might just make yourself a little less obnoxious on this blog if you did so.

        141

        • #
          Roy Hogue

          Were you any student of history you would recognize that the American civil war was fought over the southern states attempt to withdraw from the union for purely self interest reasons, the same situation as now with Brexit even down to similar underlying reasons, economics and fear of unwanted influence of the north over the south. The resulting war killed hundreds of thousands. I can understand why President Lincoln thought he had to preserve the union and I can understand why the EU wants to preserve their union. I doubt that the withdrawal of the UK will result in out and out war. But there are other kinds of war and they are just as destructive to lives and nations.

          This theme is not unique to the UK vs. EU. It’s been around for a very long time and you really should understand it and get used to it.

          81

      • #
        Radical Rodent

        You’re ‘avin’ a larf, aren’t you?

        The choice was simple: do you want this country to be run by an elected government that we can oust, or by an unelected elite of a foreign-based power, the majority of whom do not like us, who we will never be able to kick out?

        I am sure that if you opt for the latter of those two choices, your credibility on this site will sink below the Earth’s mantle, and no-one will give a dingo’s do-dos about whatever foolishness you come up with, next.

        110

      • #
        AndyG55

        52% to BREXIT

        LIVE WITH IT :-)

        Your tantrums only make people laugh.. which is what a jester is for… to laugh at.

        71

      • #
        Lionell Griffith

        I have a full natural right to be selfish and self serving. I have no obligation to associate with and provide financial support (at point of gun or not) to those whom I deem unworthy (n.b. I get to decide the standard and measure of worthiness and the extent of my generosity based upon my standards).

        I have a full natural right to be sovereign over my person, mind, property, and work product. You have exactly the same full natural right. The ONLY limitation, if you can call it that, is that neither I nor you have any right to violate those self same rights of another.

        That these rights have been and are now increasingly massively violated by government and other institutions does not abolish those rights. Nor does your misrepresentation and willingness to violate them by proxy of your favorite government body. The rights are merely violated and the violators have, by those acts, consigned themselves to be undeserving of respect, cooperation, association, or any degree of support.

        By the act of violating those rights (even vicariously), they have severally become a clear threat to the lives and wealth of rights respecting others. In effect, we rights respecting individuals are considered to exist only by the violators permission as if we were mere property without even the right to exist. They therefor have abandon any claim to their holding any rights at all.

        Keep in mind, that by taking the position you have taken, you are as much of a part of this massive violation of INDIVIDUAL rights as any common thug or corrupt politician. I suggest don’t push it or the consequences may not be as you wish. This suggestion is based upon our natural right to OUR lives and our consequent derivative right of self defense. Meaning, we have the right to reply with sufficient force to stop your aggression against us.

        101

      • #
        Annie

        I find the Jester pretty unfunny. I am completely over all those bullying, scowling (see pictures of Juncker, par example), selfish, we-know-best, totally unelected bureaucrats. I have never, at any time, given my assent to their domineering, overwhelming, money-grabbing, wasteful, unaudited habits, EVER. How dare they tell me what I should do? As far as this English woman is concerned, they can get lost…good riddance.

        Quo citius eo melius!

        51

    • #

      I agree with this opinion piece–
      Britain will regain its political freedom, its autonomous self-government, and its independence from an European Union that is spinning out of control under the power of establishment elites, unelected and unaccountable socialist bureaucrats, and a court that is increasingly making legal decisions that replace Britain’s powerful common law.

      The EU’s tax and regulatory policies, climate-change and welfare spending, and free immigration even in wartime are gradually ruining Europe. That’s why I believe Brexit is good for British freedom, political autonomy, and the survival of democratic capitalism. http://www.cnbc.com/2016/06/25/brexit-the-uks-magna-carta-20-good-for-freedom-good-for-growth.html

      130

  • #
    RobK

    The caption from Tallbloke is a good summary. You have to question: how did it come to this?
    Brexit won’t be easy but the status quo was leading to ever increasing serfdom. Enough already. Let’s maintain some autonomy and cultural diversity; just like biodiversity is well understood. A track towards a one world government is a recipe for disaster.

    180

    • #
      TdeF

      Yes, a real puzzle. However Britain could vote on those regulations which are to apply to Britons under English law, which is about time. Trade deals can now be made say between Britain and China, illegal under EU rules. Different currencies are no problem, as they are different today. The movement of people requires passports, but that is a simple matter and the security problems from *** terrorism have made that a necessity anyway. The times when you just walked onto a plane, train or boat are long gone.

      The real question is about money. As one of the world’s biggest economies, Britain’s cash and income have been paying for huge numbers of cosseted bureaucrats in Brussels. 8% on all Britain’s imports is also a lot of money. These jobs will go. Tragic. More than the British PM one day and out of work the next. They might have to get real

      A real pleasure will be to see British boats go out and catch some fish. For the first time in half a century. Then British manufacturers who only have to please their own regulators, not the people in Brussels. Best of all, no more windmills. If there is going to be uproar on the markets, it is with all those companies who have been living on EU sponsorship for decades, all those cosy deals, all those prohibitive regulations to stop competition. If nothing else, ordinary Britons might see the price of imported goods drop by 8% across the board. Now that would be great news.

      We may see a real boom in the UK economy, if only from lower prices, jobs for people at home and a boom in tourism if the pound drops, lining the pockets of ordinary people with their own currency. After all, who goes to Hamburg or Potsdam for a holiday? Now the Germans alone will have to rescue Greece and Spain.

      261

      • #
        TdeF

        Not least the Germans will have to house, feed and clothe all those Syrians, Libyans, Iraqis they invited to their homes. On the bright side, they will not have to find jobs for them.

        180

        • #

          Amazing what the historical guilt can do. The Germans did not pay (too much) when the world was crossed with the iron curtain. Since the fall of communism their guilt has definitively increased. With increased wealth and open borders their desire to pay or waste their own tax payer money has gone through the roof. When is this going to stop? How much longer German nation will continue to pay for their fathers and grandfathers mistakes.
          This is not just about preventing future wars and making Europe economically more equal. This is not (just) about German dominance of Europe as their guilt counteracts and stops all nations moving forward.
          The unchecked guilt will eventually cause the fall of Germany and the fall of Europe.

          100

      • #

        The first thing Britain needs to do is talk with China. After all Britain knows more about China than most. They were in Hong Kong for a long time. They still have many ex-pats and associates in Hong Kong and Singapore. I think China’s economy is second to the USA. They should claim their ocean economic zone immediately -give higher quota’s to their fishing fleet and kick out some of the EU countries that have been stealing their fish. Then start talking to Australia, New Zealand, Canada, India, South Africa, Nigeria (which is developing fast & has oil) and Kenya. The latter countries together with Britain will be bigger than the remaining EU.
        All the economists predicting gloom & doom for Britain have no clue on how economies work. The best example of a successful economy is Singapore.

        262

  • #
    pat

    the mighty Chritiana has a press conference with the mighty Bloomberg…yet no MSM reported it (unless u can find what i can’t) !
    good on EurActiv. as usual, MSM cherry-picks the news:

    22 Jun: EurActiv: James Crisp: UN boss: Brexit would mean rewriting Paris Agreement on climate change
    A vote for Brexit in tomorrow’s UK referendum on EU membership (23 June) would mean that the COP21 agreement would have to be rewritten, the executive secretary of the UN Framework Convention on Climate Change said today (22 June) in Brussels.
    Christiana Figueres, one of the architects of the historic deal struck last December to limit warming to no more than two degrees above pre-industrial levels, said the international pact, “would require recalibration”. It is currently in the process of ratification.
    “From the point of view of the Paris Agreement, the UK is part of the EU and has put in its effort as part of the EU so anything that would change that would require a recalibration,” she said at a press conference…
    Figueres was alongside Energy Union Commissioner Maros Sefcovic and business magnate Michael Bloomberg, who is also UN special envoy for cities and climate change, to launch the Global Covenant of Mayors…READ ON
    http://www.euractiv.com/section/climate-environment/news/un-boss-brexit-would-mean-rewriting-paris-agreement-on-climate-change/

    UNFCCC: Press/News: UN boss: Brexit would mean rewriting Paris Agreement on climate change
    Christiana Figueres, one of the architects of the historic deal struck last December to limit warming to no more than two degrees above pre-industrial levels, said the international pact, “would require recalibration”. It is currently in the process of ratification…(EurActiv link)
    http://unfccc.int/press/news_room/items/2768.php?topic=all

    25 Jun: UK Independent: Rachael Pells: Brexit: Environmentalists fear ‘bonfire’ of regulations designed to fight climate change and protect wildlife
    Reacting to the vote to leave the European Union, charity groups and climate change campaigners said the result could have a “devastating” effect on the UK environment, since ***more than 70 per cent of environmental safeguarding comes from European legislation…
    Craig Bennett, Friends of the Earth’s CEO: “The environment was rarely mentioned during the referendum but it must now move up the political agenda.”…
    http://www.independent.co.uk/environment/brexit-eu-environmentalists-fear-bonfire-regulations-designed-fight-climate-change-protect-wildlife-a7103001.html

    140

  • #
    pat

    frozen fingers again. should have begun my comment with the mighty CHRISTIANA.

    70

    • #
      Dave

      Pat

      This is a bonus of the #BREXIT!

      “Brexit would mean rewriting Paris Agreement on climate change”

      Christiana Figueres will be biting her nails out

      You have to laugh, and then Boris will get in!

      230

      • #
        el gordo

        The trio were just doing their bit to keep the structure intact, but it backfired and so they have gone behind closed doors to consider their future.

        120

      • #
        Ross

        The environmental NGOs in the UK must be shuddering –all that EU money that they have been fed on, might/will dry up.
        I wonder if they shift head quarters to Paris, for example, they will still be allowed at the EU trough, if still registered as a UK NGO??

        51

    • #
      Geoffrey Williams

      Britain could be ‘left out in the cold!’
      GeoffW

      81

      • #
        delcon2

        Geoff,there are still about 160 odd countries for the UK to trade with.And even the EU needs some of the goods that the UK has.There will be bumps along the way,but they “Will”be minor.

        40

        • #
          Annie

          Just remember all those cars and white goods that Britain imports from Germany. I doubt that Germany will want to lose that trade!

          10

  • #
    ROM

    Give it another couple of weeks folks, until the political and economic dust settles and those with some sense of history can finally think through this whole self created EU debacle.
    Germany’s Merkel is already suggesting there is still a very strong role and place for the UK in Europe.

    Its just how this role can be structured to the advantage of all concerned will become the question central to any negotiations between the UK and the EU..

    In the end despite all the political huffing and puffing all the big wheels of the european elites will want to see that the Brexit doesn’t sull their image but maybe even reinforces their image, a very important component of any elitist politician’s legacy as Obama will tell you.

    So a lot of legalistic juggling of EU regulations and much homogenising of EU agreements and much striding of corridors and the UK will finish up with a messy but highly workable arrangement with the rest of the Nations of Europe.
    Many of who following Brexit may no longer be fully paid up members of what is left of the EU

    Or a looser and far more accommodating of member nation’s national interests arrangement will evolve following the shock of Brexit which has been a very serious and confidence destroying hit both in and on the whole of the EU political structure.

    160

    • #

      Yep!

      Germany’s Merkel is already suggesting there is still a very strong role and place for the UK in Europe.

      It goes a little like this.

      You pretend like you’re out of the EU, and we’ll pretend not to take all your money.

      Tony.

      320

      • #
        TdeF

        I suppose it comes to this. If you push out in a tinny with a fishing rod from a channel port today and catch a fish, whose is it? Until recently, it was not British fish, unless allocated by Brussels.

        If you make something in Leeds and want to sell it to Brazil, you have to get permission from Brussels.

        If you wanted to buy something from Amazon, you had to pay someone else for the right.

        It is not that the Britons have moved anywhere, least of all from Europe, but they have thrown off the yoke. Britain is now open for business and the British Lion will roar again. Cheeses though may be a problem but the good reds and cheeses can come from Australia and far cheaper goods from China. EU regulations were often designed to prohibit imports as well as to price them out of competition.

        It will not take long for ordinary Britons to realise their new freedoms and just watch how quickly the business community and the EU adapts. British goods could be 8% more expensive in Europe but 8% cheaper for ordinary Britons. If the Pound does plummet, it could mean a boom in British exports and in their domestic tourist industry. Too bad there is no summer but given the vast number of murders on Midsomer Murders, it is possibly a good thing.

        241

        • #
          Annie

          We call it Midsomer Mayhem. It’s a wonder there’s any population left in the area! We sometimes watch it just to see the English countryside but they produce some pretty strange and unpleasant characters who don’t reflect the vast majority of the people we knew.

          We did have all of two warm summers…2003 and 2006.

          20

  • #
    HAS

    Well worth NZ and Aus picking up the phone to the UK and start talking about an Association under Article 24 of ANZCERTA :)

    180

    • #
      sophocles

      Wonderful.
      The world is suddenly full of fresh opportunities.
      Those who can see them and grab them will win.
      The weepers and hand-wringers will continue to lose.

      To the fastest countries, the better the trade deals :-)

      130

      • #
        OriginalSteve

        Yes, and Engerlanddddddddd managed to run 25% of the world single handed ……. Oh how will they cope now?????

        60

    • #
      Mjw

      Rib eye in Brirain, $88 kg, Australia, grain fed organic rib eye $42. Hope the Poms don’t suffer too much.

      81

  • #
    pat

    just letting u know:

    26 Jun: ABC: Gail Burke: Temperatures plummet in southern Queensland as Brisbane shivers through coldest morning of year
    The Bureau of Meteorology (BoM) said temperatures dropped to -4 degrees Celsius at Applethorpe, -3C at Kingaroy and Dalby, and -2C in Oakey.
    Brisbane recorded its coldest morning of the year at 5:00am, getting down to 6.8C, but with an apparent temperature of 4.3C.
    It was -3C in Beaudesert, 0C at Ipswich, and 3C at Coolangatta and the Sunshine Coast.
    Senior BoM forecaster Brett Harrison said it was the start of a cold stretch…
    “So we’ll see places through the Channel Country, and Maranoa and Warrego districts looking at temperatures anywhere up to 10 degrees below average for this time of year.
    “So it does look like they’ll be approaching the records, so very cold for this time of year.”…
    http://www.abc.net.au/news/2016-06-26/winter-arrives-in-southern-queensland-coldest-night-of-year/7544274

    25 Jun: Climate Depot: Marc Morano: ‘The sun goes blank again during the weakest solar cycle in more than a century’
    By Meteorologist Paul Dorian – Vencore, Inc
    The latest solar image is completely spotless for the second time this month; image courtesy NASA…
    http://www.climatedepot.com/2016/06/25/the-sun-goes-blank-again-during-the-weakest-solar-cycle-in-more-than-a-century/

    70

  • #
    Egor TheOne

    I says: Don’t just ‘leave’ the European Unelected (EU), go in and sack the lot of them .

    And don’t forget the other organization of tyrants : The Unelected Nutters (UN), with their CAGW fruitcake religion propagated by Closet Marxists and Multinational Bank and Corporate Racketeers.

    These Global Monstrosities need to be defunded and abolished.

    It is still of great concern that 48% said yes to tyranny!
    So many dumb and/or brainwashed…and easily manipulated by the mainstream media presstitute mongrels and ferrals.

    271

    • #
      Yonniestone

      “mongrels and ferrals.”, met a few today in Melbourne, made a comment at the bottom of weekend unthreaded about it.

      Lovely people, real treasures they are.

      110

      • #
        delcon2

        Yes most of them “Uni Students”The Education system needs a clean-out,along with these”lying,Do Nothing,Career Politicians”Lets do it next week.I already have.

        30

    • #
      Mari C

      “It is still of great concern that 48% said yes to tyranny!”

      Perhaps it wasn’t so many saying yes, as quite a few saying “We are too scared to see what happens” or “My life is fine as it is”

      Change is concerning and frightening. And I bet quite a few don’t remember Britain before it joined the EU. Or the EU as it once held promise to be.

      It is hard for many to believe that those you trust to tell the truth, to lead and to guide, to watch over everyone’s interests, could be wrong – or even self-serving, greedy, uncaring, or ignorant. So there are a number of those 48%ers who voted with a clear intent to remain, and a number who, most likely, voted with a fear of losing what little they have.

      120

      • #
        Roy Hogue

        So there are a number of those 48%ers who voted with a clear intent to remain, and a number who, most likely, voted with a fear of losing what little they have.

        Parable of the good servant vs. the bad. The bottom line paraphrased — he who is afraid to risk what he has for a beneficial gain will ultimately lose everything, even that little he sought to protect.

        70

    • #
      tom0mason

      Yes the UN is already affecting what you eat, the medicines and food supplement you are allowed to have by the application of your nation signing-up to the UN’s Codex Alimentarius Commission. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Codex_Alimentarius

      Yep, the UN will soon have the last word on what you can eat…
      http://www.fao.org/fao-who-codexalimentarius/en/

      You want higher than usual vitamins? No, the Codex on vitamin issues restricts that.

      http://www.nocodexgenocide.com/page/page/3113480.htm

      Yep, all under the umbrella of keeping control of the sheeple by the usual fog and mirrors of ‘safety’.

      61

      • #
        Roy Hogue

        But gee whiz Tom, they say it’s voluntary.

        I expect that to mean exactly as voluntary as federal education standards are because if you don’t follow those standards you don’t get all that free money to help run ruin your schools. So the standards aren’t really voluntary and the money isn’t exactly free either since you sell your school system to DC to get it.

        Texas, thanks to Rick Perry told them no thanks, the Texas school system isn’t for sale.

        00

  • #
    TinyCO2

    I fear our ‘elite’ are falling over themselves to tell the World we haven’t got a single pair in our hand. Not even an ace. They’re saying we’d have to accept any deal the EU offers us up to and including our fistborn served with a pint of chilled cider.

    They are walking a fine line. The public are quite cross already.

    180

    • #
      OriginalSteve

      This would be the same group of inter-bred european bloodlines who think they are the “Masters of the Universe” then?

      Its a stack of cards…if the man in the street knew what the Elite have been up to, they would have a terribly short life span…

      10

  • #
    pat

    CAGW reporting – deceptive as usual:

    the twittering class heads to Double Bay. one photo, one thousand? doubt it:

    26 Jun: ABC: Election 2016: Climate change activists march in Malcolm Turnbull’s electorate of Wentworth
    About a thousand people have gathered in Malcolm Turnbull’s Wentworth electorate to demand action on climate change…
    Speakers said climate change needed to be higher on the political agenda and told the crowd the Great Barrier Reef was dying under Malcolm Turnbull’s watch.
    Amongst those addressing the crowd was former Liberal leader John Hewson.
    “Enough is enough,” he told protesters. “It’s time to act.”
    “I think [the] climate should be the dominant issue of this campaign, it should have been for quite some time.”
    Dr Hewson said the election campaign had all but forgotten climate change, and called for bi-partisan support from the main parties…
    Other speakers who addressed the crowd included climate scientists from the CSIRO and Barrier Reef tourism operators, with one group waving a “can’t eat coal” sign.
    Protesters took to social media using the hashtag #socialfizza — a reference to Mr Turnbull’s perceived change in stance on climate change since becoming party leader…
    (Protester Justin Levis from Sydney’s inner west) “It seems to be a deliberate attempt to keep it off the election agenda,” he told the ABC.
    “You can’t keep doing this, you can’t keep ignoring renewable energies”…
    http://www.abc.net.au/news/2016-06-26/climate-change-activists-march-on-malcolm-turnbull-wentworth/7544634

    credit to Fairfax for providing some relevant info:

    26 Jun: SMH: Kelsey Munro: John Hewson to skip Liberal campaign launch for Wentworth climate protest
    The list of organisers of the Double Bay rally – GetUp!, Greenpeace, the Wilderness Society and the Nature Conservation Council – reads like a roll call of people that most of Dr Hewson’s former colleagues in the Liberals would cross the street to avoid…
    Dr Hewson, these days a businessman and renewable energy advocate…
    “I think this is far more important than national security and defence – it’s an intergenerational challenge, of course, and if you don’t solve the problem today you’re robbing future generations,” he said. “Here’s a clear example of where they can do something substantive for their children’s children if they could just put the politics aside and get on with a substantial response.”…
    Rally organisers claim a significant share of Wentworth voters are committed environmentalists who are deeply disappointed in Turnbull’s performance.

    26 Jun: 9News: AAP: Climate change protesters float to PM Turnbull’s mansion as former leader John Hewson joins rally
    A group of climate change protesters have taken to the water outside Prime Minister Malcolm Turnbull’s Sydney mansion, and former Liberal leader John Hewson has spoken at their rally in Mr Turnbull’s seat of Wentworth.
    Dr Hewson addressed protesters at the Climate Change Fizza rally today…
    Dr Hewson said he was frustrated by the failure of politicians to see the economic opportunities of climate change action…
    Jobs and growth could be achieved through funding renewable energy projects and investing in research, he said.
    “I’ve spent a lot of time in the business community in the past 15-20 years trying to demonstrate that it’s good for the economy, for our society, to respond sensibly,” Dr Hewson said…

    what might also have been reported:

    The Asset Owners Disclosure Project: Board: Chairman John Hewson
    The Asset Owners Disclosure Project is an independent not-for-profit global organisation whose objective is to protect retirement savings and other long term investments from the risks posed by climate change by improving disclosure and industry best practice.

    Wikipedia: Since circa 2005, (John) Hewson has been a member of the Trilateral Commission, an alliance of top political and economic leaders from North America, Asia-Pacific, and Europe…In December 2012, Hewson was appointed as a non-executive director of Larus Energy, an oil and gas company developing operations in Papua New Guinea…In 2011, he and former Liberal prime minister Malcolm Fraser were among 140 Australian community leaders who pledged support for an emissions trading scheme…

    40

  • #
    • #
      Roy Hogue

      Watched it through to the end. It’s pretty accurate as far as I can see.

      Would I be remiss if I suggested to make Paul Joseph Watson the new PM of England? :-)

      Probably he wouldn’t be a good one. But the temptation to suggest it is too great to resist.

      50

    • #
      Egor TheOne

      Too Good !

      Blunt and to the point.

      It is obvious that the Marxist Conglomerate (Ratbags,Thieves,Criminal Bankers,Corrupt multinationals,renewable racketeers,etc) will try anything and everything to circumvent the Brexit vote, including reruns until they get their preferred result.

      These Mongrels don’t want democracy, they want absolute control … Supreme Dictatorship.

      This ‘elite scum’ are in most urgent need of the ‘bums rush out’ and straight into prison cells.

      30

  • #
    pat

    comments #11 and #14 in moderation.

    referring to previous links:

    not sure why ABC called it #socialfizza when it is #climatefizza. more pics – a thousand? maybe, tho 700+ is another guesstimate:

    #climatefizza
    TWEET Blair Palese: 700+ turn out in @TurnbullMalcolm ‘s hood to plead for #ClimateAction & to save our reef! #ClimateFizza
    https://twitter.com/hashtag/climatefizza

    40

  • #
    pat

    26 Jun: UK Express: Caroline Wheeler: Sovereignty by Christmas! Britain to claw back powers from Euro courts within months
    Legislation will be introduced to curtail the powers of the European Court of Justice, which ministers say will make it easier to kick out foreign criminals and terrorists.
    A senior Vote Leave insider said: “If a Leave supporter wins the race to become the next prime minister then legislation will be brought forward before the end of the year that will start to free Britain from the control of Brussels.”
    German Chancellor Angela Merkel held out an olive branch to Britain yesterday by suggesting the Government should be given time to negotiate informally before invoking Article 50, the legal mechanism for leaving the EU…
    It had been thought that the process of Britain freeing itself from the control of Brussels would take years but Leave campaigner Michael Gove has said previously that it should begin immediately with a series of interim emergency laws.
    The immediate powers being demanded include freeing intelligence agencies from European law, allowing foreign criminals and terrorists to be deported without hindrance and freeing the Armed Forces from Brussels’ diktats.
    Tory MP Andrew Bridgen, who led the Leave campaign in the East Midlands, said: “The public have spoken and now deserve action. They took the bold decision to leave the EU and I salute them for that.
    “Leave campaigners are keen to reward the public for showing such faith in them by introducing some immediate changes that will start to put Britain back in control.” …
    Officials will begin talks with ministers this week about the next steps in the process following Thursday’s momentous vote…
    Ukip leader Nigel Farage is not expected to be given a place at the negotiating table.
    On Friday sources close to the Leave camp said Mr Farage’s involvement had come to an end as he threatened to use his position as head the Ukip group in the European Parliament – the biggest group of British MEPs – to ensure he had a say over the terms of Britain’s exit…
    http://www.express.co.uk/news/politics/683431/Sovereignty-Christmas-Britain-claw-back-powers-Euro-courts-within-months-Brexit

    Farage should be given a seat at the table.

    141

    • #
      Exile

      The facts:

      The U.K. (Or what’s left of it) can invoke Article 50.

      Europe then dictates the terms if exit (the member state is suspended from negotiation).

      Two years are allowed for this.

      Only a total vote from EU members can extend this period.

      Britain will either end up doing exactly what the brexiters didn’t want – trading in an EU model with freedom of movement and having no vote or f$&@ing the country.with a WTO model.

      010

      • #
        tom0mason

        Exile,

        “Europe then dictates the terms if exit (the member state is suspended from negotiation).”

        Wrong! Only immoral cro0ks would try such is stupid idea. The settlement terms will be by negotiated mutual agreement.

        Britain is now free to trade with the rest of the world on their own terms and not through the diktats of the EU crony capitalist elites!

        140

        • #
          OriginalSteve

          Or Britain could just tell the EU to shove off…..again….and do its own thing anyway.

          00

    • #

      The Chiefio, usual data rich comment on doing trade
      deals post Brexit, and what seems like good cut-to
      -the-chase advice on Article 50.

      https://chiefio.wordpress.com/2016/06/25/brexit-the-night-after-the-morning-after/

      50

    • #
      delcon2

      Nigel Farage and Boris Johnson,should be given a seat at the table and there are many other Brexiteers who should also be included.

      40

  • #
    pat

    Adam Smith Institute thinks REMAIN has won???

    25 Jun: UK Express: Tom Parfitt: Britain must take Norway-style deal with EU after historic Brexit vote, says think-tank
    The Adam Smith Institute believes a move to join the European Free Trade Association (EFTA) is best for the UK following Thursday’s Brexit vote.
    The four countries in the EFTA – Norway, Iceland, Liechtenstein and Switzerland – are allowed full access to the single market.
    But some anti-EU campaigners including Nigel Farage are apposed to a Norway-style deal because it involves retaining freedom of movement.
    (HUH?) The think-tank’s Executive Director, Sam Bowman, last night said: “This is a vote for Britain to open up to the world…
    “It is crucial that the UK does not leave the Single Market even as it leaves the EU, in order to reassure markets and avoid a major economic shock.
    “This option will take the economic risk out of leaving and avoid most of the economic losses that Remainers warned leaving would entail.
    “Staying in the Single Market for a period of five to ten years would give the UK the time it needs to properly disengage from Europe as a process, not a one-off event.
    “It is also important that the government does not trigger Article 50 immediately – we need as much time as we can get to negotiate Britain’s exit.”…
    (Cameron last year) “Norway pays as much per head to the EU as we do, but of course they have no seat at the table, no ability to negotiate.”
    And Ukip leader Mr Farage said: I don’t want a Norwegian deal – I believe in a new British deal that suits the needs of our own country.”
    http://www.express.co.uk/news/politics/683276/European-Union-EFTA-Norway-EU-referendum-Brexit

    80

  • #
    Geoffrey Williams

    Nicely put Jo, the MSM still don’t want to acknowledge facts.
    Not to mention the British parliament which needs a good cleanout!
    GeogfW

    80

  • #
    Ross

    One thing I don’t understand. Apparently Switzerland cancelled their application to join the EU recently. Why were they even bothering to apply ? or have I got it wrong ?

    70

    • #
      tom0mason

      The good people of Switzerland do not want uncontrolled migration into their country. They held a referendum on the issue the answer no. Switzerland does want trade within the EU and there is the problem…

      The country is outside the EU but subject to almost the same free movement rules as the UK (via the bilateral Free Movement of Persons Agreement, which will give citizens of Bulgaria and Romania full access to the Swiss Labour market as of 31 May 2016 at the latest).

      In a referendum in February, the Swiss voted to introduce quotas on EU migrants from 2017. However, the EU has so far refused to agree to this and has threatened to suspend its other bilateral agreements with the country if it unilaterally imposes quotas.

      http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/immigration/11190269/If-EU-migration-is-the-problem-Switzerland-and-Norway-are-not-the-answer.html

      110

  • #
    ScotsmaninUtah

    The meeting of the six

    It is interesting to note that a meeting was held in Berlin after the UK referendum , but only the original six members were invited. Luxemberg was there , I am curious as to why other more significant members, Poland for example, were not invited. Perhaps they were not considered important enough.

    130

    • #
      AndyG55

      Did you know,

      Luxembourg has about the same population as Tasmania. :-)

      80

    • #
      Mike Spilligan

      It’s not widely known (and I’m sorry not to be able to give a reference) that the original Six – France, Germany, Benelux and Italy – have got a superior position in the EU. Basically, France and Germany establish policies; the other four have agreed that they will never contradict those. Then there’s a middle-circle of long-standing members in the euro-zone (currency) and the remainder are, in reality, outside the policy process. (The remainder being UK, Denmark, Sweden who have rejected the “opportunity” to adopt the euro, and newer members who can’t – currently – comply with the euro rules. This is why I laugh, cynically, when some of our – UK – politicians say “We need to be at the top table”. We will never be, or would never have been, because we were not one of the Six – doubly so because we would never, willingly, adopt the euro.)

      100

      • #
        tom0mason

        Mike Spilligan,

        A more jaundiced view could be that the original ECC (European Crony Capitalist), of Germany, France and Italy made money, and Benelux was there for their expertise in ‘tax efficient’ profit-making.

        90

  • #
    Exile

    I’m a bit saddened by all this. Appreciate all the Big Gov stuff, but some places need big gov for size. Like the USA Feds keeping odd states in line, Europe is one. We saw twice in the last century how European isolationism and nationalism worked, and nobody wants that again.

    The U.K. Electorate voted for Brexit based on being fed a pack of lies. Most of the “out” vote was based on ignorance, because the campaign, from both sides, was based on bollocks. Democracy has had its way, but not been served. When you’re told £350mm a week will go to the NHS if you just vote no that’s a powerful statement. For the protagonists of this to deny it within 24hrs of the vote going in their favour is just pathetic. makes a mockery of the whole process: “we never expected to win so lying is acceptable”. Really? Grow up.

    012

    • #
      tom0mason

      Exile,

      I doubt that many were swayed by the “£350mm a week will go to the NHS” argument, more like they saw that there was a way of removing the unaccountable Europeans elites from telling their sovereign country what, when, and how they can live, trade, and make law.
      A large number of the UK population saw through the corruption of the EU and finally they had their time to voice their discontent by rejecting the EU madness.

      140

    • #
      AndyG55

      52% voted BREXIT.

      Start of story ! :-)

      Certainly there is now $350million extra a week to spent IN ENGLAND which is what the sentiment was.

      60

    • #
      OriginalSteve

      I think several things happened, and I’m going to be blunt here ( having lived & worked in the UK myself ):

      (1) The Brits dont like being told what to do, they are very capable, thank *you* very much…..

      (2) An Englishmans home is his castle – unless the EU intrudes and tells him what to do…a source of *irritation*

      (3) Uncontrolled migration – this would have been the final straw. Brits dont cope well with Johnny Foreigner anyway, and hordes of them turning up would have just *not* been cricket, and something was *going* to give….oh yes….

      And it did….

      In short, dont try and tell the Brits what to do, they will bite you. Hard. The Battle of Britain should have told you all you need to know about them.

      I hope the EU numpties have half a brain, have learnt, and now stay away – lest they lose more than a hand next time…..think of the image of a british bulldog, with the seat of the many EU bureacrats trousers in its mouth….

      00

  • #
    ScotsmaninUtah

    Returning Industries…

    Many of the British industries e.g. fishing which were destroyed or “throttled” by EU quotas and regulations will perhap now at last see a resurgence.
    The future for Britain is bright :D

    170

    • #
      Exile

      Fishing was problematic because of when the quotas were set. Once you understand the starting problem (Iceland) you’ll understand that Britain has done remarkably well.

      010

      • #
        tom0mason

        “Why should we stay? Europe is killing our industry” — John Buchan, fisherman
        The U.K. Minister of State for Farming, Food and the Marine Environment George Eustice agrees. On a recent visit to the once bustling English port of Grimsby, the Conservative Brexit campaigner said Britain would be able to demand far greater quotas of North Sea stocks if it left the EU and took its own seat on the North East Atlantic Fisheries Commission, the body that decides on by-country catch allocations. Quote –

        “Norway has a seat at the [commission] table, Iceland has a seat at the table [and] the Faroes has a seat at the table,” Eustice said. “But extraordinarily, the U.K., the country with the greatest interest in the North Sea, is denied a seat because we are a member of the EU. Instead, our technical experts and diplomats are reduced to whispering in the ear of an EU negotiator and hoping they don’t mess it up.”

        A flotilla of trawlers sailed up the Thames to central London calling for an EU exit on Wednesday. Among those on board was Peterhead fisherman John Buchan.

        http://www.timebomb2000.com/vb/printthread.php?t=488734&pp=50

        90

    • #

      As a Brexiter who has worked on the fishing problem your comment is both simplistic and insulting to those who worked on it. International agreements and intense lobbying from industry and their scientists is what has saved the world’s fisheries and stopped the random ignorant pillaging we had in the past, a past which, by the way, saw companies, industries and their towns suffer the effects over a period of hundreds of years.

      03

      • #
        Annie

        I disagree GeeAye. Other members of the EU were taking great loads of British fish indiscriminately and were throwing tons of perfectly good but ‘illegal’ fish back overboard, to no purpose whatsoever as the fish were all dead by the time they went back. The very low quotas for Britain also included this nonsensical requirement.

        30

  • #
    • #
      Stephen Richards

      Gordo

      Its what the “elite” do. They are the only ones fit to rule and you, the plebs, have no idea what to do. Obama said the same. He said he wished US was like China so he could rule like a kenyan emperor. They are lazy and incompetent. Its hard work taken enough people with you to achieve your goals but that’s what elections are supposed to do. Except , of course, the politicians lie during elections to get enough votes and then don’t carry out their promises because they cannot.

      70

      • #
        OriginalSteve

        Rather.

        A man with a gun is a Citizen.

        A man without a gun is a Subject.

        Which is why the repeated attempts by the Socialists in the USA to get rid of the 2nd Amendment…..America was founded based on primarily religious persecution in europe.

        10

        • #
          Radical Rodent

          Hmmm… the Pilgrim Fathers certainly left Britain because of religious intolerance – they could not tolerate that there were so many who did not agree with their religion!

          00

          • #
            Lionell Griffith

            Apparently you view intolerance as an unforgivable crime without considering what is not being tolerated. Yet, the fact is that you exhibiting intolerance of intolerance. Do you always try to have your cake and eat it too?

            The context of the Pilgrims:

            The Church was under strict rule of the State so their actions were considered treasonous and these Separatists [aka Pilgrims] had to flee their homeland.

            Putting such things into context, should change the evaluation of their actions. They were actually intolerant of being persecuted and sought to escape from it. They did in fact escape at great personal cost.

            00

    • #
      Mark D.

      Interesting el gordo.

      He’s not wrong but is missing a very important concept. The leaders (experts) are not performing. The people have the right to rid themselves of “experts” that are weak, ineffective, do things that harm etc.. That is the democracy designed into the Constitution.

      Balance of political power was and is the goal and I think the Brexit vote has potential to restore the balance of power to UK. How they use it is another thing.

      50

  • #
    Stephen Richards

    The reasons to leave the EU were so compelling the amazing thing is that 48% of the public still voted to stay

    That was puzzling me as well. And what is in it for all those politicians such as Cameron, Osborne, Corbyn etc? Must be money but where. The “foreigners” that control the EU don’t want british politicians among them. They have made that abundantly clear in the past. They only ever wanted british money. In that wonderful way that they set up the scam, the more you succeed the more you have to pay them. One commissioner, 8 parlement members, second biggest net contributor.

    180

    • #
      TdeF

      Not really. A lot of the 48% were people who benefited directly plus whole recipient areas like a newly Nationalistic Scotland and political groups like the WWF. Then the young people who want to stay, having never known an independent Britain, member for the last 41 years. The young were likely the most influenced by the real scare campaign that everything will collapse, because they think it might be true. They were told Britain would collapse economically by their own Prime Minister, the Chancellor and so many in important positions.

      Give Britons six months of plain sailing and it will vanish. The experiment is over. It failed. There was a great cost, no great benefit and it certainly wasn’t democracy. The ever present danger though was that personal freedom could have vanished overnight when the EU decided they didn’t need or want National parliaments. Then a bureacratic administration would become a totalitarian regime, accountable to no one.

      170

      • #
        Peter C

        young people who want to stay, having never known an independent Britain, member for the last 41 years. The young were likely the most influenced by the real scare campaign that everything will collapse, because they think it might be true. They were told Britain would collapse economically by their own Prime Minister, the Chancellor and so many in important positions.

        Maybe just as well that they forgot to vote, or even register to vote then!

        60

      • #
        delcon2

        The EU were working towards that aim,with their own “Police Force”Unfortunately,Brexit got there first.

        40

    • #
      Speedy

      Stephen

      In reality, it doesn’t matter which country the “leaders” come from -they are not accountable to their population anyway. The opaque nature of the EU system is what makes it so unaccountable and so sinister. Orwell’s “Big Brother” at least had a face – the faceless tyrants in Brussels are anonymous.

      Cheers,

      Speedy

      100

  • #
    Manfred

    It’s a rare win.

    May be so. But the opportunity rarely comes around, and in the case of Brexit, a referendum had been studiously avoided.

    The Common Market evolved into the supranational edifice that was the EU. It was truly NEVER about anything other than maintaining the 10,000 elite of Brussels in their marble lined halls and offices, and eventual sarcophagi, and the redistribution of wealth by diktat.

    If there is a salutary lesson it is that approximately 50% of the UK population failed to see the enormity of the dupe in which they played the hapless sheeple, partly because they were bought and paid for, lock stock and silver shining barrel.
    These poor folk are now in need of the urgent equivalent of naloxone for their addiction to the EU social narcosis.

    120

    • #
      Graeme No.3

      10,000? there are 47,000.
      See what happens when you put 2 wire coat hangers in a darken cupboard. You are surprised by the increase number of useless articles.

      50

      • #
        graphicconception

        I think there are 10,000 Eurocrats who earn more than the UK Prime Minister. Goodness knows what the all do.

        60

  • #
    AndyG55

    Where’s the media, where’s the media

    The Bureau of Meteorology reported that during the day on Sunday, Shepparton, with 8 degrees reported its coldest June maximum temperature on record, as did Yarrawonga, with 7.7 degrees, and Kilmore with 4.6 degrees.

    130

    • #
      Mike

      It was mentioned briefly on the radio today on a radio station in Victoria…., but no mention of debt records broken today, since debt is a key driver of economic climate. When there is more debt, there is less CO2 emissions and more oil rigs have to be shut down due to a drop in demand for things like petrol or coal as a simple example.

      Every day is a new record for the level of debt in the world. This CO2 emission reduction success story is almost absent from any media when it should have CO2 reduction adherents shouting for joy on the rooftops. :)

      50

    • #
      jorgekafkazar

      Media? What is this ‘media’ of which you spik?

      00

  • #
    cedarhill

    And don’t forget one has to gain more votes than the margin of fraud.

    60

  • #
    pat

    ***********William Oliver Healey who put up the petition for a second referendum. he’s pro-BREXIT. read comments etc:

    Facebook: Oliver Healey English Democrats
    ***CAN I HAVE YOUR ATTENTION PLEASE!!!***

    Dear All
    Re: EU Referendum Rules triggering a 2nd EU Referendum petition
    This petition was created at a time (over a month ago) when it was looking unlikely that ‘leave’ were going to win, with the intention of making it harder for ‘remain’ to further shackle us to the EU. Due to the result, the petition has been hijacked by the remain campaign. Admittedly, my actions were premature however, my intentions were as stated above. THERE WAS NO GUARANTEE OF A LEAVE VICTORY AT THAT TIME!!! Having said that, if it had not been mine, it would have been orchestrated by someone on the remain campaign. However, since I am associated with the petition and before the press further associate me with it I felt the need to better clarify my position on the issue even if it looks bad. I am it’s creator, nothing more! The logistical probability of getting a turnout to be a minimum of 75% and of that, 60% of the vote must be one or the other (leave or remain) is in my opinion next to impossible without a compulsory element to the voting system.

    I have been opposed to the bureaucratic and undemocratic nature of the European Union as an institution privately for many years and for all of my political career. I have openly and actively lent my support to both Vote Leave and Grassroots Out campaigns – why would I do this if I wanted to remain in the EU? I am genuinely appalled by the behaviour of some of the remain campaign, how they are conducting themselves post-referendum not just with this petition but generally. The referendum was fairly funded; democratically endorsed, every vote was weighted equally and I believe this was a true reflection of the mood of the country. To my fellow leavers, now doubting their decision please keep the faith, we will be fine just stick with it. I believe what we need to do now for the good of the country; is get behind the will of the British people, unite, issue Article 50 of the Treaty of Lisbon and move forward, with the process of leaving the European Union.

    William Oliver Healey

    Creator of EU Referendum Rules triggering a 2nd EU Referendum petition
    https://www.facebook.com/Oliver.Healey.English.Democrats/

    don’t know date of the following, but you can find William on page 34:

    PDF: De Montfort University: DSU ELECTIONS 2015 – 2016
    MANIFESTO BOOKLET
    William Oliver Healey
    This is my 2nd year at De Montfort University and for those who don’t know me I am Oliver Healey I am a politics student.
    I am standing in this election for the Vice President Welfare and Community role because since I have been at university I have suffered from a disability a form of autism called Aspergers Syndrome and for most of the time I was unaware of this condition…
    http://www.dmu.ac.uk/documents/dmu-students/dsu/manifesto-booklet.pdf

    40

  • #
    pat

    one of Healey’s comments on Facebook:

    comment on the Facebook page:
    Oliver Healey – English Democrats Indeed James. Well Arley they got that wrong I joined the English Democrats in 2009 before I came to university and I haven’t officially graduated yet soo…I know I think the category of whoops doesn’t quite cover this one but in my defense Tony I really didn’t think we would win at the time I set it up I still didn’t at midnight on Thursday to be honest. David I’m sure they will until they realise that the devil is in the detail and under the terms I suggested whilst it might get debated in parliament it won’t happen because it’s impossible. Even if it is possible it may yet back fire on them. I suppose so Pete but not as much as it sucks to be the person who is doubling as my much nicer more enlightened version of Peter Mandelson lol
    ———

    to be fair, another person commenting brings up Farage, as reported in UK Mirror in May. yikes! lol.

    16 May: UK Mirror: Nigel Farage wants second referendum if Remain campaign scrapes narrow win
    Farage told the Mirror: “In a 52-48 referendum this would be unfinished business by a long way. If the remain campaign win two-thirds to one-third that ends it.”…
    The Ukip leader’s declaration of defiance raises the prospect of the Brexit brigade copying Scottish Nationalists chivvying for a second independence referendum since losing by 55.3%-44.7% in their 2014 plebiscite on breaking up Britain.
    That’s why the Prime Minister’s yearning for a clear victory to answer the Europe question in favour of staying in and quelling Brexit fanatics in his own ranks.
    In the event of a defeat Farage, who maintains Britain will vote to quit the EU, would exploit claims the referendum was unfair after the Government dubiously spent £9m on a leaflet to every home.
    But the remain side is likely to accuse him of sour grapes and being a bad loser, getting his excuses in early as he braces himself for defeat…
    http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/nigel-farage-wants-second-referendum-7985017

    17 May: BBC: Nigel Farage: Narrow Remain win may lead to second referendum
    There could be unstoppable demand for a re-run of the EU referendum if Remain wins by a narrow margin on 23 June, UKIP leader Nigel Farage has said…
    But he said there would be resentment, particularly in the Conservative Party, if not, with claims the referendum will not have been a fair contest…
    The question of a second referendum was raised by Mr Farage in an interview with the Mirror in which he said: “In a 52-48 referendum this would be unfinished business by a long way. If the Remain campaign win two-thirds to one-third that ends it.”…
    http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-eu-referendum-36306681

    50

    • #
      Ross

      Pat

      I think the Mirror and the BBC are twisting Farage’s words simply because the petition has arisen ( and it looks likely to be a fake petition).
      Farage said that if they lose , especially if the vote was close, the “battle” would not end. He wasn’t suggesting it would be necessary another referendum , quite quickly afterwards.

      10

  • #
    graphicconception

    The thought that people think it worthwhile to amass votes for a petition to try and join an un-democratic organisation where their votes will never count again is mind-blowing.

    Why don’t they by-pass the UK government and raise a petition on the EU site that will be acted on by the EU law makers? Oh, I know why, they have no such facility because the last thing they want is real people interfering with the government. The people’s job is merely to supply the cash to make it all possible.

    They used to say that a frog in a continuously heated pot would not jump out. How wrong can you be?

    What is interesting is all the talk of referenda in other countries and talk of EU reform to keep the plebs on-side. Surely, the EU view is that it does not need reform? Perhaps if they had listened earlier they would not be in this situation now?

    80

    • #
      ianl8888

      Perhaps if they had listened earlier they would not be in this situation now?

      Yep. If Brussels had behaved itself rather than constantly pushing anti-democracy, unelected bureaucracy and never-ending diktats (in short, a relentless drive for power without accountability), this situation would never have arisen – there would have been no need.

      But the brutal, cynical theft of lifelong savings (pension funds, or superannuation as we know it) from the Cyprus population a few years ago gave the game away like nothing else. The EEC Common Market seemed reasonable – the European Union EU as a defacto collectivist cabal over-riding national sensibilities is most unreasonable.

      80

  • #
    pat

    comment #28 is in moderation & is needed to make better sense of this:

    25 Jun: UK Mirror: Keir Mudie: Nigel Farage says Brexit referendum ‘not a best out of three’ as nearly 3 million sign petition for vote re-run
    The response is in contrast to Mr Farage’s opinion in May, when he told the Daily Mirror: ““In a 52-48 referendum this would be unfinished business by a long way.”
    However, former Labour minister David Lammy insisted the shock narrow win for Brexit in Thursday’s vote was not binding and could be overruled.
    As calls for a re-run increased in Britain’s biggest ever petition on parliament.uk, he said the Commons – where a majority of members backed Remain – should put the brakes on Brexit…
    http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/nigel-farage-says-brexit-referendum-8283500

    points to note:

    from Mirror article in comment #28 -

    “But the remain side is likely to accuse him of sour grapes and being a bad loser, getting his excuses in early as he braces himself for defeat”

    plus the following, which i didn’t excerpt in the BBC article in comment #28 -

    “Number 10 said Mr Farage’s comments showed he was losing the argument and was no longer confident of winning”

    IN OTHER WORDS, REMAIN THOUGHT THEY HAD IT IN THE BAG, SO MSM AND #10 WERE AGAINST THE IDEA OF A SECOND REFERENDUM IN THE EVENT OF A 52-48 RESULT. END OF STORY.

    80

  • #
    Speedy

    Personally, I’m very glad the citizens of the UK voted. A few more years under the EU and it would be illegal.

    180

  • #
    pat

    25 Jun: Washington Times: Valerie Richardson: Obama warns poor nations will put planet ‘under water’ by using fossil fuels
    The world’s richest nations have long been fueled by oil, coal and natural gas, but President Obama warned Friday that less affluent countries trying to take the same path will put the planet “under water.”
    In an interview with Facebook founder Mark Zuckerberg, Mr. Obama said he hoped social-media “connectivity” will help convince developing nations to eschew fossil fuels, which contribute to rising carbon-dioxide levels in the atmosphere but are also less expensive and more reliable than green energy alternatives.
    “In terms of the problems we have to solve, energy is a classic example, the issue of climate change,” Mr. Obama said at the three-day Global Entrepreneurship Summit at Stanford University.
    “There are entire continents, sub-Saharan Africa or the Indian sub-continent, where people are developing rapidly. They’re getting connected,” he said. “They’re going to need electricity, they’re going to need energy, but if they duplicate the ways that we produce energy here, or have in the past, then the entire planet is under water.”
    The seventh annual summit, which ended Friday, hosted 1,200 entrepreneurs and investors from 170 nations, including for the first time Cuba…
    http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2016/jun/25/obama-warns-poor-nations-will-put-planet-under-wat/

    i would not have beleved Obama would throw Africans under the uaffordable CAGW renewables bus again, as he did in Johannesburg in 2013, unless i watched this lovefest video on FB.

    surely he was made aware of the mockery directed at him the last time he did it – seemingy not:

    VIDEO: 7mins50secs: Live with President Obama after the Global Entrepreneurship Summit at Stanford
    https://www.facebook.com/zuck/videos/10102920321354391/

    2013: CNS News: Ryan Kierman: Obama: ‘Planet Will Boil Over’ If Young Africans Are Allowed Cars, Air-Conditioning, Big Houses
    According to Obama, global warming constitutes “the biggest challenge we have environmentally,” one greater than all other environmental calamities like “dirty water, dirty air.”
    However, the President’s statements do not reflect statistics released by the United Nations…
    By comparison, as many as three million people died from indoor and outdoor air pollution – in other words, over 20 times the number of alleged victims of global warming, according to the Word Health Organization.
    The list of victims of unclean drinking water is even more staggering.
    According to UNESCO, unsanitized water causes billions of preventable diseases annually, from diarrhea (4 billion), cholera (120,000), malaria (300-500 million), intestinal parasites (25% of world’s population), typhoid (12 million), trachoma (6 million), and schistosomiesis (200 million). list from highest to least affected
    The president gave short shrift to these more traditional health concerns during his visit to the continent. Instead, Obama implied several times that the U.S. would only encourage growth in Africa should it be grounded in “clean energy strategies” and not in “corrupting” energy economies that gave rise to unprecedented levels of health and prosperity among Western nations…
    Speaking on the future of U.S. aid to Africa, the president said that it was his goal “to see if we can leapfrog some of the polluting practices of America or Europe, and go straight to the clean energy strategies that will allow you to advance economic growth, but not corrupt the planet.”…
    http://cnsnews.com/news/article/obama-planet-will-boil-over-if-young-africans-are-allowed-cars-air-conditioning-big

    70

  • #
    Deguello

    Does anyone remember the threats and promises of a 1/1/2000 computer financial disaster that was a bust? This will be a redo with the possible caution that in 2000 the result was mechanical and largely outside human influence, while the results of Brexit can be a self-induced effect of human reaction to false expectations. I.e., stock markets are infamous for over reaction.

    60

    • #
      Raven

      Well, I was in the IT game back in the day and the Y2K concern was well founded.
      Remember we’re talking about old school mainframe computers running large data sets with complex processes interacting with other large systems outside that organisation.

      The software involved was all bespoke and in many cases had been subject to code add-ons and modifications over the years by different software engineers, many of which were external and employed on a consultancy basis. The end result was a layering of code with insufficient documentation on how the date field had been maintained/implemented. Sometimes the programming languages used had also long since been superseded by more modern software tools and consequently there was less available expertise.

      The whole thing came down to whether the software would recognise and/or distinguish between a four digit date (yyyy) and a two digit one (yy). It was also often unknown how those different layers might interact. On top of this, there was a data range issue . . meaning that many systems might not recognise “00” to mean “2000” and just print 1900 on you’re refund cheque from the Tax Office! . . or, at best, merely not print anything at all. Garbage in – garbage out.

      The mammoth task meant checking all the undocumented tweaks over all those years on systems all around the world to make sure nothing fell over when the clock ticked over to 2000.

      The options were to take, say, the bank’s systems off-line for a day to see if it worked or to replicate the system and test it in isolation. No one is going to take the bank off line for a day and hope . . and you can’t do an isolated off-line replication system unless you can link it up with all the similar external systems similarly configured from all those it interacts with.

      So the talk of catastrophe was always sexed up (as usual) but you couldn’t predict the extent or rule it out either.
      Plenty of money was spent and plenty was made . . that’s for sure. ;)
      Apologies for the O/T rant.

      00

  • #
  • #
    tom0mason

    For all those who are confused about who these real British people are, please read link below about how a British comedian became an honorary British Navy Commodore by rowing from England to France in a bathtub and nearly starting a war with France in the process.

    All proud Englishmen should cheer his endeavors…

    https://thejohnfleming.wordpress.com/2013/09/08/english-eccentric-comedy-adventurer-tim-fitzhigham-talks-futtocks-and-of-rowing-a-bathtub-across-the-channel/

    And “How are your futtucks old man?”

    30

  • #
  • #
    el gordo

    George Soros said:

    “Brexit will open the floodgates for other anti-European forces within the Union… the EU truly has broken down and ceased to satisfy its citizens’ needs and aspirations. It is heading for a disorderly disintegration that will leave Europe worse off than where it would have been had the EU not been brought into existence.”

    Read more: http://www.smh.com.au/world/brexit-aftermath-spurs-bregret-political-infighting-20160626-gpsa3h.html#ixzz4CixGH6N7
    Follow us: @smh on Twitter | sydneymorningherald on Facebook

    50

    • #
      Graeme No.3

      “the EU truly has broken down and ceased to satisfy its citizens’ needs and aspirations.” Stating the obvious. With it being seen as controlled by a well paid group out of touch with the problems their decisions caused for ordinary people, of course here is dissatisfaction. It is typical that the reaction in Brussels has been to abuse the British, try to isolate them in case the infection spreads, and to call for more control from Centre.

      The idea that in a democracy the majority have a say seems not to be understood by them or their supporters.

      70

  • #
    TdeF

    A good point by Jennifer Oriel in the Australian today, that people who voted to get out of EU control were prepared to take the risk of financial losses. It’s not that the Remain group did not make their point, but that so many Britons thought their freedom was more important.

    Another by one of the promoters of the referendum was that he thought it unlikely that the turnout would be sufficient for the mandatory 75% and also that the vote was the mandated 60% with a valid vote. So it was not just that the Leave vote had to beat the Remain vote, but that it had to be substantial in its own right in a country without compulsory voting.

    Both prove that ordinary Britons saw the vote as essential, important and leaving worth the pain, especially the pin the vengeful bureaucrats of the EU will now try to inflict. Or as another writer described the EU, a benign dictatorship. Another likened it to the Chinese communist system as so admired by Christiana Figureres, head of the UN Climate Change bureaucrats.

    90

    • #
      delcon2

      And know maybe we should look at getting rid of the UN.The USA are.
      Rep.Mike Rogers from Alabama,
      pointed to a wide range of reasons why the U.S. should dump the UN. “Although the United States makes up almost a quarter of the U.N.’s annual budget, the U.N. has attempted a number of actions that attack our rights as U.S. citizens,” he explained. “To name a few, these initiatives include actions like the Law of the Sea Treaty, which would subject our country to internationally-based environmental mandates, costing American businesses more money, or the U.N.’s work to re-establish an international regulation regime on global warming which would heavily target our fossil fuels.”

      Indeed, especially in recent years, the UN has become increasingly brazen in attacking the rights of Americans, and even the U.S. Constitution that enshrines those unalienable rights. From attacks on free speech and gun rights to assaults on America’s federalist system of government and states’ rights, the UN and its member regimes have become increasingly aggressive. Now, the UN is working on a series of major schemes that would undermine even the principles upon which the United States was founded, much of it under the guise of promoting pseudo-human rights and pseudo-environmentalism.

      50

      • #
        OriginalSteve

        If you want to see the reality of how far up its own rear end the UN is for arrogance, check this out:

        http://www.un.org/en/universal-declaration-human-rights/

        Article 29.

        (1) Everyone has duties to the community in which alone the free and full development of his personality is possible.

        (2) In the exercise of his rights and freedoms, everyone shall be subject only to such limitations as are determined by law solely for the purpose of securing due recognition and respect for the rights and freedoms of others and of meeting the just requirements of morality, public order and the general welfare in a democratic society.

        (3) These rights and freedoms may in no case be exercised contrary to the purposes and principles of the United Nations.</strong>

        10

        • #
          OriginalSteve

          (2) is a straight-jacket par excellence

          (3) is a EU-style “we tell you what to do”

          Well, guess what?

          BREXIT !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

          10

    • #
      Raven

      . . but that it had to be substantial in its own right in a country without compulsory voting.

      Yep, as I said somewhere else, a simple 52% majority wouldn’t be enough to get the referendum up in Oz.
      I guess the other side of the coin is that if the UK used our preferential voting system UKIP would have more representation in their parliament. (wouldn’t they?)

      00

  • #
    pat

    26 Jun: Heat Street UK: Louise Mensch: EXCLUSIVE: Brexit ‘2nd Referendum Petition’ A 4 Chan Prank: BBC Report It As Real
    The 4 Chan Bots represent the ultimate failure of the Remainstream Media.
    The BBC’s desperate shilling for Remain will come under increasing scrutiny as we exclusively reveal that the supposed ‘popular petition’ for a second referendum – wholly illegal and unworkable, and unprecedented in British history – is a prank by notorious sh*tposters 4 Chan.
    The BBC, the UK’s national broadcaster, gleefully reported, as real, with no basic journalistic checks, an online petition that appeared to be growing at a colossal rate. By 1:30 pm, it was one of the fastest-growing petitions in history…
    So fast, in fact, that somebody should have checked for bots and scripts. The BBC is failing totally in its Charter Duty to perform basic journalistic research. Here is the actual script…
    Heat Street can exclusively bring our readers the proof that the spamming of the petition is a magnificent 4Chan prank that the Chads and Stacys of the BBC and liberal media swallowed whole. Heat Street does the basic journalistic work that the BBC failed to do:
    Here are 4Chan boasting about their work on the petition…READ ON
    How long until they blame Putin’s hackers for it?…
    We can post screenshots of the code 4Chan and anonymous are using to hack Parliament’s petition. Why couldn’t the BBC – or Parliament’s IT services google the thing themselves?…
    By Sunday afternoon in the UK, the national broadcaster deigned to report that Parliament was investigating the petition for fraud.
    Other liberal media scions also pounced on the petition…
    FROM COMMENTS:
    why did the vote count from inside the UK jump over 2 million votes in 40 minutes between 21:21 and 22:01 on 6/25?…
    The mainstream media outside the BBC were blushingly reporting the petition ‘may have been manipulated’ without acknowledging that 4Chan and anonymous had been online for 24 hours boasting about their prank…
    https://heatst.com/uk/exclusive-brexit-2nd-referendum-petition-a-4-chan-prank-bbc-report-it-as-real/

    BBC was carrying the petition story in its MAIN NEWS HEADLINES repeatedly, at least twice per hour on BBC World Service, sometimes more, eventually following the item with the twitter #Regrexit? story.
    so much emphasis on these sideshows in a couple of minutes of headlines?

    BBC went looking for Leave voters regretting their vote:

    VIDEO: 1min52secs: 25 Jun Last updated at 01:20 BST: BBC: EU referendum: Sheffield Leave voters on their choice
    Some voters in Sheffield have told the BBC they thought Britain would remain in the EU, even if they voted to leave.
    But do they have any regrets?
    Judith Moritz reports.
    http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-eu-referendum-36630879

    above originally included “Regrexit?”. did BBC start the twitter nonsense?

    EU referendum: Sheffield Leave voters on their choice
    BBC‎ – 1 day ago
    Regrexit? Leave voters ‘thought we’d remain’.

    apparently BBC did the same thing elsewhere. here’s Manchester:

    Brexit: Do you #Regrexit? – CNNPolitics.com – CNN.com
    1 day ago – From Brexit to #Regrexit — an online petition demanding a second … One voter, Adam from Manchester, told the BBC: “My vote — I didn’t think …

    here’s NPR in the US looking for #regrexit? people to interview on 24 Jun!

    NPR’s Planet Money Verified account ‏@planetmoney · Jun 24
    So who’s got #regrexit? If you know someone who voted Leave and already has second thoughts, get in touch. We’ll talk it out with them/you.
    https://twitter.com/search?q=%23regrexit%20&src=typd

    the MSM is dead.

    40

    • #
      Bite Back

      What a despicable thing to do. Not a cubic mm of integrity among the whole lot.

      BB

      30

    • #
      Ross

      Pat

      The BBC could end with a lot of egg on their face, if this correct

      http://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2016/06/hah-liberal-media-pranked-4chan-poll-second-eu-referendum-totally/

      Hah! Liberal Media Gets Punked by 4Chan – Petition for Second Brexit Vote was Spammed

      “Mainstream media outlets in Great Britain and the US were running news Sunday of a stunning petition that shows 2 million people want a new Brexit vote.

      Over “two million” signed the referendum in less than 24 hours!

      Unfortunately the poll was a 4Chan prank.

      The BBC, The Mirror, France 24, The Telegraph, Manchester Evening News, The Guardian… all reported on the bogus petition.

      But they got punked. The poll was manufactured by 4Chan and Anonymous hackers who loaded up the signatures with fake names from The Vatican, Ghana, North Korea and elsewhere.

      4Chan users were bragging about their prank online.”

      Who do you believe ??

      10

      • #
        Raven

        4Chan users were bragging about their prank online.”

        Who do you believe ??

        Probably the BBC is a Marxist bot . . . ;)

        00

  • #
    Philip Mulholland

    BBC Panorama Debate 2nd June 1975 chaired by David Dimbleby.

    David Dimbleby chairs a 50 minute debate on whether the UK should vote to remain in the Common Market, between two Labour cabinet ministers in the Harold Wilson government: Roy Jenkins MP and Tony Benn MP. First shown on Monday 2 June 1975.
    02:12 Opening statement by Tony Benn:-

    Well when all the economic and other arguments are melted away, I feel strongly about it because at bottom this erodes the importance of the vote for people in this country who don’t have money or power in industry, it is the vote that is their main safeguard for the future, and Common Market membership devalues and downgrades the vote because it prevents people using the ballot box to adopt policies, change policies, change men who adopt policies and thus change taxes and laws.

    Because in future if people vote Yes on Thursday then whatever the outcome of the general elections may be, much real power will rest in the hands of those who will not affected by our elections. Now there are men who give their lives for the right to self government, independence, democracy. There are many men in the world today in prison for those rights and we are being invited to give up those rights for whatever purposes we shall be discussing and I think that makes this the most important point in British political history.

    Tony Benn 05:28

    I want to work and cooperate with everybody, but I want to govern myself and that’s the key to it all.

    In the discussion on democratic control of economic policy that follows after 40:33 Tony Benn’s prescience is truly astonishing.

    But you see the basic difficulty of your argument is that there is a price to pay in our own democratic control of our economic policy and you are really denying that price exists. Now I don’t know what your current view on political federation is, but most of the really serious pro-marketeers, and I include you in this category over a very long period, actually believe in an economic and monetary union, in a move towards political union, in a merging of control of our economy over a much wider range of policies.
    Now to suggest that entering the market will make no real difference, I think gives a lack of credibility to this argument because I think you will be the first to admit that an economic and monetary union, which Giscard d’Estaing indicated the other day the French and the Germans and the Benelux countries might go for, even without Britain and Italy, which he said had permanent and deep seated economic problems, that such an economic and monetary union would deprive elected governments and hence the voters, these are the people I care about, not ministers, they can live on their own, but the voters have got to have the right to elect a government that will do things to protect their jobs, even if it does mean some import restrictions, devaluation or control of capital movements and you are demobilising the British people, I think of these major powers and then saying “look it doesn’t make any difference”. Now I think that’s not altogether presenting the price the British people are actually being asked to pay.

    Roy Jenkins 42:11

    I think an economic and monetary union is a long way off.

    Roy Jenkins 43:20

    And though I don’t believe that a federal state is on the horizon, within certainly not within the lifetime even of you Mr Dimbleby, let alone myself or Tony Benn, I don’t think a federal state probably will ever suit Europe, in the strict sense of the word.

    Tony Benn 49:50

    I think that the power to govern ourselves must remain with the British people, cooperate world wide, trade world wide, join the United Nations, be members of international communities, but cut the umbilical cord that links the lawmakers with the people and you destroy the stability of this country.

    It is a shame that this historic discussion can not be viewed everywhere and used as a warning to all of those who seek to ignore the will of the people.

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b07f54sj/panorama-02061975

    60

  • #
    pat

    comment #41 is in moderation.

    all MSM today reporting versions of:

    Nicola Sturgeon: Scottish parliament could block Brexit
    International-The Guardian-12 hours ago

    what a surprise – BBC started this firestorm!

    VIDEO: 26 Jun: BBC: Brian Taylor: Nicola Sturgeon says MSPs at Holyrood could veto Brexit
    ***To be clear, further, she did not float the issue of a “veto” on Friday in her formal response. It emerged today in reply to decidedly adept questioning from my estimable colleague, Gordon Brewer.
    When Ms Sturgeon was asked by presenter Gordon Brewer whether she would consider asking the parliament not to back such a motion of legislative consent she replied “of course”…
    Ms Davidson (Scottish Conservative leader) said that the advice she had taken “suggests this is not within the power of Holyrood”.
    Constitutional law expert and Conservative MSP Adam Tomkins tweeted that Holyrood had no power to veto the UK’s withdrawal.
    Mr Tomkins – who backed the Remain side of the referendum campaign – said that while Holyrood had the power to withhold consent, that was not the same as blocking…
    http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-36633244

    lengthy, almost as if BBC is looking for a way to legitimise such a move by Scotland. however:

    26 Jun: BBC: Brian Taylor: Could the Scottish Parliament stop the UK from leaving the EU?
    The Scottish Secretary, David Mundell, for example says that Scotland remained within the Union via the referendum of September 2014 – and that Scotland, consequently, is bound by UK collective decisions such as the vote on Thursday.
    Nigel Farage and David Coburn of UKIP put it more bluntly, in their customary fashion. They dismiss utterly Ms Sturgeon’s elemental pitch…
    So it could be argued – it is already being argued – that, if it came to a constitutional battle, Westminster would have the final say. Holyrood might withhold consent for the legislative moves to implement Brexit…
    Westminster might note such a verdict, no doubt with polite gratitude – then proceed to implement Brexit, exercising its over-riding sovereignty…

    40

  • #
    Mike Smith

    “That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, –That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government…”. — US Declaration of Independence.

    The British people just did precisely that.

    Thank God. I am quite certain the EU elites would have abolished that ability within a decade.

    50

  • #
    Gymmie

    and the Greeks weep, their welfare wagon is falling apart

    40

  • #
    pat

    27 Jun: UK Express: Macer Hall: David Cameron told to get out NOW to stop Remain MPs blocking Brexit
    DAVID Cameron was last night under intense pressure to accelerate his departure from Downing Street as concerns grew that a stitch up is being plotted to try to scupper Britain’s exit from the EU.
    Former Work and Pensions Secretary Iain Duncan Smith, a leading “leave” campaigner during the referendum debate, led calls for the next prime minister to be a convinced Brexiteer.
    “Whoever takes up that job, it would be very, very difficult for the public who have voted for leaving the European Union to find that they then had a prime minister who actually was opposed to leaving the European Union,” he said.
    And other MPs said humiliated Mr Cameron and his discredited Chancellor George Osborne needed to stand aside as soon as possible.
    One senior backbencher said: “Cameron and Osborne are like a couple of snake oil salesmen who need to get out of town now their ruse has been rumbled.”
    The alarm was sounded after a string of senior figures suggested Britain could have a rethink about the result of last week’s historic referendum victory for the campaign to quit the EU…
    (Angela Merkel’s) chief of staff, Peter Altmaier said: “Politicians in London should have the possibility to reconsider the consequences of an exit.”
    He said a UK withdrawal would be “a difficult watershed with many consequences,” before adding that Britain could rejoin at a later date “but that would take a long time”…READ ON
    http://www.express.co.uk/news/politics/683581/David-Cameron-told-get-out-now-stop-Remain-MPs-blocking-Brexit

    10

  • #
    ROM

    The Remains are now really messing their own nest.

    Via BBC. [quoted ]

    Second EU referendum petition investigated for fraud

    The House of Commons petitions committee is investigating allegations of fraud in connection with a petition calling for a second EU referendum.
    Its inquiry is focused on the possibility that some names could be fraudulent – 77,000 signatures have already been removed.

    More than 3.2 million signatures are on the petition, but PM David Cameron has said there will be no second vote.

    The UK voted by 52% to 48% to leave the EU in Thursday’s referendum.

    Helen Jones, who chairs the cross-party petitions committee, said in a statement posted on Twitter that it was taking the allegations “very seriously”.

    “People adding fraudulent signatures to this petition should know that they undermine the cause they pretend to support,” she said.

    20

    • #
      tom0mason

      Helen Jones, who chairs the cross-party petitions committee, said in a statement posted on Twitter that it was taking the allegations “very seriously”.

      “People adding fraudulent signatures to this petition should know that they undermine the cause they pretend to support,” she said.

      So dear Helen I stop off at the coffee shop connect to their WiFi and set-up some disposable email accounts. Later at another location I connect to their free WiFi and log in and vote with a fake name. I move to a few other locations doing the same. Of course my webbrowser is fully tooled-up with all the security do-dads to keep me anonymous on a PC running a less than popular operating system.

      “People adding fraudulent signatures to this petition should know that they undermine the cause they pretend to support,”

      But yep, it is fun undermining a leftist collectivist cause, because they are to dumb to protect it. FYI, Hermann Göring has also voted on this site along with his leader, and Karl Marx, and the rest of the Marx brothers.

      So what are you to do Helen? We doddering old gits are actually tech savy and are having fun at your expense!

      00

  • #
    pat

    “We want London to trigger Article 50 now” – says anonymous diplomat…don’t think so:

    27 Jun: AFP: Britain ‘may never’ trigger EU divorce: diplomats
    “My personal belief is they will never notify” the EU about their intention to leave, a senior EU diplomat said on condition of anonymity…
    “We want London to trigger Article 50 now, to have clarity. I expect, as we can’t force them, for them to take their time,” the diplomat added.
    “And I would not exclude, it’s my personal belief, that they may never do it.”
    The official did not specify if he believed Britain would avoid it by holding a new referendum, or simply dragging out the process to extract a better divorce deal, but said all such decisions were up to London…
    https://www.yahoo.com/news/britain-may-never-trigger-eu-divorce-diplomats-222751444.html?ref=gs

    why i doubt the diplomat above. note *** below:

    26 Jun: Spectator blog: Fraser Nelson: George Osborne as Foreign Secretary? A bad idea
    More importantly, there will need to be a root-and-branch review of the Foreign and Commonwealth Office itself…
    But the other risk is that the FCO civil servants will instinctively seek to do a Norway: strike a deal with the EU which is as close as possible to EU membership. A great proportion of civil servants at the Foreign Office are appalled at the referendum, appalled at the result.

    ***In diplomatic circles, the very idea of the referendum is abhorred and the result viewed with shock. Brexiteers are seen as Visigoths banging at the gates of Rome. I suspect many FCO staff will now be working out how to keep us in the single market keep us signed up to as many EU rules as possible. Over the years, the FCO has come to genuinely believe that Britain’s leverage and stature in the world is dependent on our being members of this dysfunctional European Union…

    There are a great many people who think that the sky has just fallen in.
    The New York Times has been even worse. And some of the newspapers in continental Europe have portrayed this as xenophobia throughout…
    In other words: we need a Foreign Secretary who can explain, to a bewildered world, that the Brexit votes were cast in a defence of compassionate, fair-minded and outward-looking British values.
    And that voice has to be Michael Gove’s. He was the best speaker in the campaign, and he also can suborn the FCO…
    We’d need our ambassadors (again, most of whom are aghast at the Brexit vote) to give a very clear and very different message about Britain. In effect, we’d need whole the Foreign Office rebooted – to tell our country’s story…
    http://blogs.spectator.co.uk/2016/06/george-osborne-foreign-secretary-bad-idea/

    00

  • #
    pat

    25 Jun: UK Telegraph: Steven Swinford: Boris Johnson to call for Brexit ‘road map’ – but what will be negotiated with the EU, when and by who?
    Eurosceptic ministers want a raft of new laws in this Parliament to curtail the power of European courts, divert money saved by quitting the EU into the NHS and halt the free movement of migrants.
    They want to delay invoking Article 50, which will begin the formal process of leaving the European Union, until they are ready to do so…

    Britain will need hundreds of civil servants to draw up new trade deals but currently has fewer than 20, a former top official said yesterday…
    Sir Simon Fraser, former permanent under-secretary for the Foreign Office, told BBC Radio 4′s Today programme: “I doubt there are more than between a dozen and 20 serving British officials who have real experience of trade negotiations.”
    It comes as plans are being considered for a “ministry for Brexit” to help pass new laws after Britain leaves the EU, according to diplomatic sources.
    Civil servants are preparing to hire hundreds of government solicitors and trade experts to build the new state under an “enormous operation”.
    A trade ministry would have to be set up with enough people to hold simultaneous EU talks as well as negotiations with China, the US, India, South Korea etc.

    Westminster and Whitehall would have to grapple with fact that “lots of areas of competence have gone to the EU level” such as financial services, agriculture, health and safety, employment, and policies would have to be drawn up and prioritised requiring a huge legislative programme…
    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/06/25/boris-johnson-and-eurosceptic-ministers-to-tell-david-cameron-th/

    10

  • #
    pat

    26 Jun: UK Express: Alix Culbertson: Cameron and Remain cronies celebrated BEFORE polls closed – hours later tears at No 10
    Opinion polls and bookmakers were all indicating the Remain camp would win, with Mr Cameron spending the rest of the day tucked away in Number 10 as he held meetings with ministers…
    Continuing reports of high voter turnout sent out encouraging signs more of the younger, pro-Remain generation were coming out to vote, with the hope they would cancel out the older Brexit voters…
    The Prime Minister and his team started to celebrate at 3pm after receiving a phone call saying Remain would win with a 60/40 margin.
    Lord Cooper, co-founder of the Populus polling company and group lead on Mr Cameron’s gay marriage policy, had made the call, and Populus then published a poll hours later giving Remain a massive 10 point lead.
    Mr Cameron believed the polls, despite Lord Cooper having a bad prediction track record
    It is unclear why they believed the poll, as Populus general election polls last year pointed at the Tories being voted out, despite it being the best result for the party in more than two decades.
    Hours later a banker’ poll predicted Leave would win by 0.5 per cent, putting slight doubt in the minds of Mr Cameron’s team…
    Panic started to set in when Labour stronghold Sunderland voted to Leave the EU at 12.20am…
    A senior Downing Street source, said: “It was remarkable. It started so positively on Thursday.
    “But within 24 hours, some people in Number Ten were crying.”
    http://www.express.co.uk/news/politics/683400/David-Cameron-Remain-celebrated-before-polls-closed-tears-number-10

    26 Jun: UK Express: Tom Batchelor: ‘Wait and see’ Shameless Tony Blair refuses to rule out SECOND EU referendum despite vote
    FORMER Labour prime minister Tony Blair has hinted there could be a second referendum on Britain’s membership of the EU.
    “Why rule anything out,” Mr Blair said, when questioned by Andrew Neil (BBC) on putting the Brexit issue to a second public vote.
    The ex-PM also suggested MPs would have to take a close look at post-Brexit Britain to assess what effect leaving the Brussels union would have on the UK…
    Mr Blair, who was a passionate supporter of the European project, acknowledged it was unlikely that a second referendum would happen.
    But he added that people needed to see the consequences of the Brexit vote before deciding on whether a second referendum was the right course of action…
    http://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/683479/Brexit-Tony-Blair-tells-Andrew-Neil-SECOND-EU-referendum-could-happen

    10

  • #
    pat

    27 Jun: Australian: Graham Lloyd: Brexit: Paris climate agreement will have to be rewritten
    Australia remains “rock-solid” in its commitment to ratify the Paris climate change agreement this year as the EU has been left scrambling to recalibrate its participation in the historic deal in the face of the Brexit.
    Top UN climate change official Christiana Figueres said Britain’s decision to leave the EU meant the Paris agreement would need to be redrawn…
    Unless the Paris agreement is ratified this year by countries representing more than 55 per cent of global greenhouse gas emissions, it will be vulnerable to being scrapped completely by a future Donald Trump presidency in the US…
    Green groups are concerned the Brexit result will sap moment­um from the global climate change response and have linked the successful Leave campaign to high-profile climate sceptics such as Margaret Thatcher’s former treasurer Nigel Lawson.
    Lead Brexit campaigner and potential future British prime minister Boris Johnson has also been portrayed as a climate sceptic after dismissing warmer-than-usual summer temperatures as being linked to climate change. Global Warming Policy Foundation director Benny Peiser said the decision by the British people to leave the EU would have ­significant and long-term impli­cations for energy and climate polic­ies. Carbon prices in the EU’s emissions trading market plunged 17 per cent in the wake of the Brexit referendum result…READ ON
    http://www.theaustralian.com.au/national-affairs/climate/brexit-paris-climate-agreement-will-have-to-be-rewritten/news-story/7cffd44aceccfd442718b38dab0e4ffd

    another member of the EU Parliament who, like Farage, knows what it’s like on the inside:

    25 Jun: UK Sun: proud to be british Why Project Sneer was doomed to be rejected
    Brits voted with common sense and courage this time around
    by Daniel Hannan, MEP for South East England
    I’VE never felt more proud to be British. Think of the sheer weight of the forces lined up to keep us in the EU.
    All the main parties. The CBI, the TUC and virtually every Brussels-funded trade association or lobby group.
    Goldman Sachs, JP Morgan, Morgan Stanley and the other megabanks and multi­-nationals.
    Every foreign leader who owed David Cameron a favour.
    Think of the threats and the scare stories: recession, unemployment, environmental disaster, World War Three, “the end of Western civilization”.
    How did British voters react? With calm, common sense and courage.
    We are not impressed by threats of Armageddon.
    Nor are we surprised when one group of tax-free international bureaucrats supports another.
    The more shrill the Remainers became, the sillier they sounded…
    https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/1339377/why-project-sneer-was-doomed-to-be-rejected/

    10

    • #

      pat mentions this:

      Australia remains “rock-solid” in its commitment to ratify the Paris climate change agreement this year as the EU has been left scrambling to recalibrate its participation in the historic deal in the face of the Brexit.

      Want to see how data cam be manipulated by Maths.

      I can turn an overall 22% increase in Australia’s CO2 emissions into a 22% reduction in emissions, and while it is a manipulation, think upon how this same method might be used in future to show any emissions reduction.

      Look at this, and this data is from the only true recognised 100% fully truthful source, umm, Wikipedia. (Tony, how often have I told to stop doing this)

      In 2002. Australia’s total CO2 emissions were 350 Million Tonnes and the World total was 24 Billion Tonnes, so Australia’s percentage was 1.454% of World emissions.

      In 2014, Australia’s total emissions were 409 Million Tonnes (an INCREASE of 22%) and the World total was 36 Billion Tonnes, so Australia’s percentage was 1.18%.

      A comparison of Australia’s percentage 1.454% versus 1.18% shows that Australia’s percentage total has fallen by 22%.

      Cool eh!

      A 22% increase made to look like a 22% reduction.

      It’s a lie, I know, but imagine how something like this could be manipulated, not just by me doing it here, but by ANY Country.

      We have a commitment to decrease our emissions by, well, whatever percentage any Government might pull out of thin air tell Australians we will do.

      At the rate China, and soon India, are now and will be increasing their emissions, Australia could fiddle around at the edges make it’s solemn commitment, actually do nothing and our percentage would fall, and fall well below 1% by the time that commitment takes effect.

      It’s all one great big con, depending on just who is presenting the data.

      Emissions reductions totals are all just manipulation of data, and no one ever asks just how accurately it was measured in the first place.

      Just quietly, who is ever going to check the numbers any way. Certainly not journalists, that’s for sure.

      Tony.

      10

  • #
    ScotsmaninUtah

    Hull England – from Fishing to Fans

    Hull a town famous for its fishing industry in the 70s and one who voted by a large majority to leave the EU.
    It is now a very poor part of Britain whose folks’ only prospects for jobs is the building of offshore wind turbines by a German company Siemens.
    But with renewable subsidies gone and no other manufacturing to speak of, one has to ask Westminster
    “what the hell have you been doing for the last 45 years ?”

    It is very ironic that Britain nowadays imports its fish from Norway !

    10

  • #
    Philip Mulholland

    Peter Hitchens so happy about Brexit

    https://youtu.be/LnCvl2T_o5o

    00